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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK 27 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:28.519 every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:32.719 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:48.439 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening, terrifying 30 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:52.439 things are happening to Kay Wedden, forty, single mom and 31 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.519 high school teacher in Salisbury, North Carolina. Despite having no 32 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:59.519 known enemies, Kay's home, car, and peace of mind are 33 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.760 under atten throughout nineteen ninety three. Most chilling of all 34 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.599 are the senseless attacks on only on her only son 35 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.120 and the shot fired in the night through a wall 36 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:14.000 of her house which narrowly misses his head as he sleeps. 37 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:18.879 Kay's new love interest is the charming Victor Gunnerson. He's 38 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.840 a handsome Swede who left his home country to seek 39 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.039 political asylum in the US after being charged with the 40 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.800 nineteen eighty six assassination of Sweden's Prime Minister Palmy. Victor 41 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:33.319 was briefly held in custody, but subsequently released due to 42 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:37.080 lack of evidence. The romantic connection between Kay and Victor 43 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.159 is immediate and intense until Victor disappears without warning, leaving 44 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.560 Kay baffled and sad. Kay leans on her loving, elderly 45 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:48.360 mother Katherine Miller for solace until Catherine is brewly murdered 46 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.520 inside her home by an unknown intruder. With nowhere else 47 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:56.919 to turn, Kay reconnects with her ex fiancee, Elsie Underwood, 48 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.719 a seasoned police officer particularly a depth at criminal investigations. 49 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:05.080 Elsie assures k he will get to the bottom of 50 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:10.080 the incessant and tormenting occurrences. When Victor's nude body is 51 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:13.919 found two hours away in the snowy Appalachian Mountains, local 52 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.919 Sheriff's detective Paula May is assigned to investigate his murder. 53 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:23.280 What follows is an intense, hair raising investigation that will 54 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.360 shock you from the bitterly cold beginning to the unthinkable end. 55 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.719 The book that we're featuring this evening is First Degree Rage, 56 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:36.319 The true story of the assassin and obsession and murder 57 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.759 with my special guest, author and detective Paula May. Welcome 58 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:42.960 to the program, and thank you very much for reading 59 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:43.560 to his interview. 60 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.759 Paula May, thank you so much. 61 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:47.639 Thank you for having me. 62 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:52.080 Thank you so much. It's a fascinating book, and your 63 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:56.479 first hand experience and access to this makes this all 64 00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:02.000 the more remarkable. Let's both Blue Ridge Mountain. Thank you. 65 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.719 Let's go to the Blue Ridge Mountains of Appalachia. As 66 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:07.360 you do, as you introduce us to the story here, 67 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:11.039 tell us a little bit about your work, a little 68 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.680 bit of your background where you were at this time 69 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.360 in nineteen ninety three and Wataga County Sheriff's Department in Boone, 70 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:22.519 North Carolina. Just tell us a little bit about your 71 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.040 work there and a little bit about the community itself 72 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:25.759 where it is. 73 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.879 Sure the area is where I was born and grew up. 74 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.800 Attended elementary school, high school, and college there at apple 75 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:40.360 Wachistek University in the city of Bain. And while I 76 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:42.439 was in college, I started working part time for the 77 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:47.399 local sheriff's office there, and when I graduated with criminal 78 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:51.079 justice degree, the sheriff hired me full time. I became 79 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:54.600 a sworn officer and he sent me to training, and 80 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.160 he did not have any female officers at the time. 81 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:03.240 And as I began to become involved in child abuse cases, 82 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:10.560 rape cases, and cases of domestic violence, there appeared to 83 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:16.480 be a real need for female investigator in the sheriff's department, 84 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.680 and so he hired me in the investigations division. And 85 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:23.240 I had been working there for about six years, and 86 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:26.439 it was a small division, so I investigated every kind 87 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:31.240 of crime there was. I began to get involved in 88 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:35.040 the more serious investigations, and eventually a lot of the 89 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:40.720 murder investigations, all kinds of death investigations and violent crimes. 90 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.279 And I was on call on this particular day in January. 91 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:48.279 It was actually nineteen ninety four. So although the book 92 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:51.680 talks a lot about the events of December of nineteen 93 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.839 ninety three, I became involved in nineteen ninety four. It 94 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.839 was January seventh, with the discovery of the body of 95 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:05.199 a nude man who was found by some Department of 96 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:09.879 Transportation survey workers who were looking for landmarkers in the 97 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:14.240 woods there and came upon a pair of bear feet 98 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:15.560 seeking up out of the snow. 99 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:23.439 Now you originally don't know whose jurisdiction this is, because 100 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.319 this might be US Park Service or the FBI's jurisdiction. 101 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:30.240 Tell us how you proceed from that, what's the result 102 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.439 of that, and who joins you in this investigation. 103 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:39.000 That's correct. The location where the body was found was 104 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.480 kind of in the corner of the woods there at 105 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.759 the intersection of the Blue Rich Parkway, which is of 106 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.720 course a federal highway, a scenic highway, and US for 107 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:57.560 twenty one. So we we did not know on that 108 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:00.399 moment of our arrival if we were going to be 109 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:05.279 on federal property there or actually just on the county property, 110 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.680 which while we were there, we would have all worked 111 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:11.560 together initially at the crime scene anyway, assisting each other, 112 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:14.920 but as far as the responsibility of the investigation that 113 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:18.720 would follow, that would fall with the federal jurisdiction of 114 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.160 the Park Service, and you know, I'm sure they would 115 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:27.519 be assisted by the FBI, or the primary jurisdiction was 116 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:31.519 ours would be ours, And as it turns out, the 117 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.800 body was found just thirty nine feet off of federal property, 118 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:41.160 so it was our responsibility for the investigation. I was 119 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.519 the detective on call on that day, and it was 120 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:49.600 a very cold, very cold, windy and snowy day, and 121 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:52.279 I had not intended to do anything but stay in 122 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:56.160 the office that day. But of course, you know, you know, 123 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.360 the best laid plans of mice and men kind of thing. 124 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.680 But so I ended up with the investigation. 125 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.319 You talk about two and this is you mentioned this 126 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:10.319 phrase a few times in the book, and I think 127 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:13.360 it's important you talk about the line intervention in that 128 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.800 this surveyor found the body. But it was very, very lucky. 129 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.000 You say that it wasn't overlooked, and you attributed this 130 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.519 as just one of the instances of the mind intervention 131 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.600 in this, don't you Absolutely? 132 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:29.920 And I can tell you that from beginning to end 133 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.159 of that investigation, and of course not just that investigation, 134 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:40.279 but absolutely God had led our footsteps through that investigation 135 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:46.440 and he I'm a one hundred percent convinced the case 136 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:51.440 would not have been solved otherwise because from the beginning 137 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:53.399 of the discovery of the body, all the way to 138 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.919 the end of the discovery of the amazing discovery of 139 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.440 the physical evidence. I think that was Vaniell and have 140 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:04.639 often said to speak, I think that was all divine intervention. Absolutely, 141 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:10.759 it was also investigative work, Don't get me wrong, but absolutely, 142 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:15.480 as he helped us all the way through, as he does. 143 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:21.240 Now your long term sheriff, you have a relationship with them, Lyons. 144 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.240 He said, let's get the SBI to help us. Not's 145 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:29.879 North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation. So a person came 146 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:35.039 temporarily sellers and agent sellers, but then the agent that 147 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.159 was assigned was Steve Wilson, So Steve Wilson became part 148 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:42.960 of your investigative team. What did you get from that 149 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.000 original crime scene you talked about the victim being nude. 150 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:51.120 You had found that the body had been there for 151 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.279 some days, and some animal preditation had had occurred on 152 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.279 the ear and the nose, things, you know, which is 153 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.960 not uncommon. What did you comment before you tell me 154 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.080 about what you could deduce you and your team could 155 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:09.120 deduce from that crime scene itself? Initially? What did you 156 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.399 deduced from the idea that this person in the winter 157 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.200 was left nude in the snow. 158 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:20.720 Well in the beginning, as only his feet were you know, 159 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:26.240 visible coming out of the snow, we did not know 160 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:29.399 at that point if this entire body was nude, because 161 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:33.679 that was all that we could see. But obviously there 162 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.639 was some animal activity on his left foot. He was 163 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.679 laying on his back and both his feet were a 164 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.840 thought of the snow, But there was some animal activity 165 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:50.039 on his left foot and toes, and so that caused 166 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:51.759 us to think he had been there at least, you know, 167 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:58.080 for some time. But also because of the extreme cold temperatures, 168 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:03.240 his body was very well preserved, whereas if it had 169 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.360 been spring or summertime, the decomposition would have been a 170 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:11.559 lot greater and there would be less evidence to obtain 171 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.639 from the autopsy and so forth. But once we began 172 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:21.600 to remove a little bit of the snow from him, 173 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:25.360 and we we did try to preserve as much as 174 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.159 we could of the dirt and the snow and things 175 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.159 right around his body as we loaded him onto the stretcher, 176 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.679 because we did not know if there were you know, 177 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.919 other pieces of maybe trace and fiber evidence in that snow. 178 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.679 But after we realized that he was nude, we did 179 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.159 see that he had a watch and a ring on 180 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:50.200 his left hand, So we felt at that point that 181 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:55.279 it was unlikely to have been a robbery because those 182 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:58.320 items appeared to be gold and appeared to be, you know, 183 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.159 of some value. Also, it was clearly evident that he 184 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.039 was shot twice in the head, once on the left 185 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.720 temple and then on the right side of his neck, 186 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.080 so it was very obviously a murder, not a suicide. 187 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.039 Of course, there was no weapon there and so forth, 188 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.480 but there were no other identifying characteristics that we could 189 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.039 see at that point, and we knew that within our 190 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.559 own jurisdiction we did not have an active missing person 191 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:24.840 report currently. 192 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.759 Right, you had another bit of evidence, though what was 193 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.200 important was two kinds of tape, so that you could 194 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.799 conclude that the victim was bound with tape when he 195 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:41.120 was shot. Tell us a little bit more about this 196 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:42.480 tape discovery. 197 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:47.559 Sure, absolutely, and it was Sheriff Lyons himself who found 198 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:52.559 that tape, not the crime scene investigators, but as we 199 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.399 were waiting for the State Bureau of Investigations to arrive 200 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.320 with the field agent and then the crime scene team, 201 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:04.320 which we requested because of the sheer, you know, size 202 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:09.360 of the area that needed to be covered, we did 203 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.960 try to locate anything that we could see before darkness fell, 204 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.639 because this is in the in the evening on this day, 205 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.360 the late afternoon, and so two or three feet away 206 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:26.240 from the body, Sheriff Lyons was examining some of the 207 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.799 area on the ground and he uncovered a length of 208 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:36.840 tape and it was one strip of tape, but that 209 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:40.360 particular strip, which was probably about eighteen inches long, that 210 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:45.039 particular strip was made of both masking tape and black 211 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:50.200 electrical tape, and the masking tape was underneath and the 212 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:55.159 back of the masking tape where the adhesive compound is 213 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:02.960 were adhered appear to be head, dark short hair, and 214 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.200 tiny droplets of blood and also one very notable hole 215 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:11.600 that appeared to be about a twenty two caliber bullet hole, 216 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:18.360 which it was. And then eventually we were able to 217 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.639 show that the hair and the blood all came from 218 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:27.480 the body of the victim. So there was no evidence 219 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.799 from that particular piece of tape as far as far 220 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:34.759 as being able to link the suspect to that tape, 221 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:40.039 with the exception of the electrical tape which later we 222 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:44.639 found to match in twenty some different characteristics with electrical 223 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:46.519 tape that was found in the suspect's residence. 224 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:53.960 Okay, let's get back to what you found at this with. 225 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.559 You have the tape, you also have that you get 226 00:14:57.559 --> 00:14:59.879 a call shortly after while you're looking through missing me 227 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.720 ports in the county itself, you get a call from 228 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:07.080 a Lieutenant Harrison from Salisbury Police Department, which is two 229 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:12.519 hours southeast of Boone between Wiston, Salem and Charlotte. So 230 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:16.480 this person has identified as forty one year old Victor Gunnerson. 231 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.440 And as we mentioned in the introduction, what do you 232 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.159 find out you and your team about this Victor Gunnerson 233 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.080 and his past very interesting. 234 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.759 Well, that was when I probably the first time I 235 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:31.879 realized this was not going to be an ordinary almost 236 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.639 i'd kay, because what I've learned from that initial conversation 237 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.919 with Lieutenant Harrison was that they had a man whose 238 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:44.320 physical description in general, the physical description that we had 239 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:50.080 broadcast about our unidentified murdered body. And he said, of course, 240 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:51.759 we don't know for certain if this is the same 241 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:53.960 man or not, but as I'm talking to him on 242 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.720 this phone call, he shares with me that if it 243 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:01.519 is Victor Gunnerson. Victor Gunerson had been in his jurisdiction, 244 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:05.279 the city of Salisbury in Rowan County, North Carolina, and 245 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.159 had been there because he had fled the country of 246 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:14.080 Sweden seeking political asylum, and in fact he had been 247 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.879 arrested and charged with the assassination of Prime Minister Olof 248 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:24.279 Palme in February of nineteen eighty six. What I learned 249 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:30.240 subsequently was of course more details about that, but essentially 250 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:37.240 he had been arrested fairly quickly after the assassination, and 251 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.639 he was in custody and his wife or the wife 252 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.679 of the prime minister, who was with them at the 253 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.720 time he was shot, got a glimpse of the shooter space. 254 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:54.799 And so when they presented her with a lineup which 255 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.679 included Victor Gunnarson, she was unable to identify Victor Gunnarson 256 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.600 from that lineup, and so they released him from custody. 257 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.799 And then Victor Gunnarson ended up suing the government claiming 258 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:10.519 false arress and so forth, and came to the United States. Right. 259 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.319 That assassination, by the way, remains unsolved to this day. 260 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.519 Now, let's get to Victor Gunnerson once. Obviously they find 261 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.960 him in the woods, naked, and there's little evidence of 262 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.839 to point to any perpetrator. Now you go to his apartment, 263 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.039 what do you find with his apartment? And how do 264 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.440 you proceed after going to that apartment? As you write 265 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.359 in the book, you tell us the proper procedure is 266 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.079 to reach out to all kinds of people, associates, neighbors. 267 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.000 Tell us a little bit about how once you find 268 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.880 out about Victor, how do you proceed with finding out 269 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.440 more information about how he came to his demise. 270 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:58.799 So there was a number of avenues that we initially 271 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.880 explored from the very of course, we're trying to get 272 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.839 the body identified, So we're speaking with inner Poll and 273 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.720 other national and international organizations and law enforcement agencies to 274 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.400 help us get dental records and fingerprints and so forth 275 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.720 from Sweden to identify him. And at the same time 276 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.319 we're talking with those authorities and learning more about him, 277 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.720 his family, what happened with him in Sweden, and the 278 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.759 assassination of the prime minister. So that was very intriguing 279 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.200 to me dealing with all of those international agencies in 280 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:37.920 a homicide investigation. But at the same time I also 281 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:43.160 learned that Victor Gunnarson had been reported missing in December 282 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:49.000 from his apartment in Salisbury, and because that he was 283 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.279 reported missing to the local authorities there, they had been 284 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:57.039 investigating the missing person's report. So there were officers who 285 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:02.000 had already gone to Victor Gunnarson's apartment and although you know, 286 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.160 they did not alter anything or so forth, but there 287 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.799 have been other officers present there to give us an 288 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.440 idea of what to expect before we ever went there. 289 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.839 And so Don Gale, he was a major character in 290 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.799 the book, was the Phield agent assigned to the UH 291 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:24.000 to the case there, and Terry Agner was an investigator 292 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.200 with the Rowan County Sheriff's office, So they were they 293 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.440 were already involved and teaming up investigating from that end, 294 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.839 just like Steve Wilson and I and the others were 295 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:38.119 investigating from Watauga County. So we met up with him 296 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:42.920 very quickly, and the four of us very quickly combined 297 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:47.200 the efforts to you know, carry out the investigation. But 298 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.400 to answer your question, once uh, we got inside a 299 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:54.440 Victor's apartment, we found he was living on an inn 300 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:57.519 apartment of a two story complex that he was on 301 00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:59.640 the second story on the end, with a set of 302 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.839 steps right beside his apartment. We learned that his apartment 303 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.000 door had not been shut and locked all of the 304 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.160 all the way since he was reported missing. His only 305 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:13.559 car was still in its parking spot where he always 306 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:15.640 parked it, and in the same manner he always parked 307 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.839 it because he never pulled in straight. It was a 308 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:22.319 long car, uh the Lincoln, and he parked it diagonal 309 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.519 and it was still parked that way. Inside his apartment, 310 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:28.920 his passport, his keys, his wallet was still there, his shoes, 311 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.880 his leather jacket that he wore all the time. Then 312 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.880 it appeared that possibly from the way his bed was 313 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.279 that he had been in bed and just pulled the 314 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.599 covers back and gotten up out of the bed and 315 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.559 speculating maybe that you know, he had gotten up to 316 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:44.279 answer the door. 317 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.559 What about the what did the officer note about the 318 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.160 telephone and message in those days as an answering machine 319 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:55.400 attached to a telephone. 320 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:01.920 So initially the apartment manager and the custodian of the 321 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.920 apartments and other people had noticed that the answering machine 322 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.240 was on and he appeared to have several messages. But 323 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.960 by the time that we and other law enforcement got 324 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.640 in there, the cassette tape was missing out of his 325 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.880 answering machine, and the answering machine was no longer working, 326 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.839 and people that tried to call him and check on 327 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.400 him before his body was ever found noted that all 328 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.440 of a sudden's answer machine had changed and what they 329 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.519 heard allowed them to allow them to not be able 330 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.920 to leave a voicemail message right whereas they had before. 331 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.759 Yeah, Now, in this investigation, like I had mentioned, you 332 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:50.440 have to find out who could possibly know, So you 333 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:56.680 look up the associates of everyone to find out if 334 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.240 there's anybody that knows anything about this. Again, this is 335 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.880 there's so much any mysteries to this, and you have 336 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.599 read at the very beginning of this investigation, How does 337 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.240 it come that you find out about Kay Wedden tell 338 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:09.000 us about thoughts? 339 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:16.440 Okay, it's Whedon, k Whedon, and so Don Gale and 340 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:20.839 Terry Agner are the investigators in Salisbury. One of the 341 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.599 first things that they made us aware of was the 342 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.240 fact that they were investigating the homicide of a missus 343 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:31.759 Catherine Miller. She was murdered inside her home, two gunshots 344 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:35.400 to the head, She was seventy seven years old, no 345 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:41.440 known enemies, and that homicide had occurred on December eighth 346 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:47.319 of nineteen ninety three. And the one thing that linked 347 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.400 Victor Gunnerson and his murder to the murder of Katherine 348 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.119 Miller was the fact that Katherine Miller's daughter was Kay Whedon. 349 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:58.839 Kay Whedon had also been dating Victor Gunnarson for about 350 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.960 a week before he went missing, so she was the 351 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:09.240 common denominator in both of those investigations. Jain so that 352 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:13.960 immediately drew the attention of the investigators to her and 353 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.759 began a series of many many interviews and conversations with 354 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.839 Kay Whedon, also with her son, Jason Miller or Jason Wadon. 355 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:28.519 I'm sorry, now, what did you find out initially from 356 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.680 this about his behavior, his behavior but also his character. 357 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.000 What did you find out right from the get go 358 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.079 from speaking with Kay about this. 359 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.759 Person, about Victor Gunnarson or about. 360 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:50.400 Someone else, about when you talk about when you talk 361 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:56.240 to Kay and when you talk to her about about 362 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.839 about her boyfriend, about the person that she leaned on 363 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:04.759 about the cop so okay, when she when she talks 364 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:08.160 about that, when you were talking to her about her 365 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.319 relationship with Underwood, what does she say about his character? 366 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.119 What is right from the get go some of the 367 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:16.599 things she has to say about the relationship. 368 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:24.039 She said that her relationship with her former fiance's name 369 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:30.519 was They'll see Underwood was very dysfunctional. It was very controlling. 370 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:38.000 Underwood was very manipulative towards her, very threatening, and I 371 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:42.559 heard very little that was positive about their relationship. Now 372 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.599 at the beginning, and as we learned from talking with 373 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.200 other women that had been involved with him in his past, 374 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:54.319 at the beginning, he was very charming. He was he 375 00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:57.240 seemed like he had everything together and uh, you know, 376 00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:59.160 every every woman's dream. 377 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.839 And the. 378 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:10.920 Most interesting part to me about him when I first 379 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.200 learned about him was the fact that he was a 380 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.720 police officer and he was currently employed at in December 381 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.400 of nineteen ninety three as a school resource officer for 382 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:23.559 the City of Cauldbury. 383 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.880 Right when you spoke with Kay Whedon as well, you 384 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.440 talked about the relationship with Victor, as you discover that 385 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.839 there was this relationship, tell us how she met Victor 386 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.400 and the nature of the relationship, and then you spoke 387 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.680 to her about that very last evening that they spent together. 388 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:50.440 Okay. Kay was at the time an English teacher at 389 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:53.200 the local high school, not at the high school where 390 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:58.200 Underwood worked, but nearby, and she of course was a 391 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.079 single mom. She was divorced, and she was raised and 392 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:01.559 her teenage son Jason. 393 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:01.880 And. 394 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.680 As had been as she had done before, she had 395 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.519 an exchange student in her home who was Jason, her 396 00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.759 son's age, and his name was Michel and he was 397 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:19.359 from Denmark, I believe, And so there was a little 398 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.359 trouble communicating at times. And one of Kay's girlfriends had 399 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.279 said that she had a friend that was from Sweden 400 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.400 and apparently they had a lot of things in common, 401 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.720