WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.279 S S. 2 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:38.959 S S. 3 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:41.520 Yeah. 4 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:58.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 5 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:50.960 Yeah yeah. There have there have, there have, there have Yeah. 6 00:03:55.400 --> 00:05:08.240 The career. 7 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:33.920 Success success success success success success. 8 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:45.839 Ssss success ss ss. 9 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:27.959 S S S S S S S S S S 10 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:32.000 S S S S. 11 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:47.040 S s s s S s s S. 12 00:06:54.480 --> 00:08:43.840 Second second. 13 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:57.159 Second second, second second. 14 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:36.080 We've learned so much. 15 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:38.840 If you've been on the Jaysonnalysis, right, A lot of 16 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.279 you guys are new, I understand, that's cool. Glad to 17 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.799 have you here, but some of you have been with 18 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:47.759 me for the long haul. In fact, there are some 19 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:50.919 who've been with Jays Analysis for ten years, reading it 20 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.919 back in the day, and we've come a long way, 21 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:02.320 come a long way. All right, Welcome, thank you, glad 22 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.600 to see you all here. I got a room of 23 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.720 almost two hundred nerds. I'm sure the nerds will file 24 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:10.960 in then we can get up to about three hundred. 25 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:11.840 Den I will see. 26 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:21.919 You, boy, Jay in the house. You boy can't see me. 27 00:10:23.240 --> 00:11:02.759 Thanks. 28 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:15.639 Boots shoot Shots, boots, Shop boots, shoots and Storm boots, boots, 29 00:11:15.679 --> 00:14:51.960 Stop boots, Stier sun was s. 30 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.519 All right, welcome and if you can try to avoid 31 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:32.240 those clicking in the background, David, Yeah, all right, welcome 32 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:37.480 you are here in another episode of Jay's analysis. Today 33 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.720 we have our good friend, our brother David the real 34 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:47.080 medwife back. David has delved deeply into the Chalcedonian issue, 35 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.000 the issues of Pope Saint Leo and the so called 36 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.360 Oriental Orthodox. We're going to look at that today. We're 37 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.360 going to get into the topic of how the notion 38 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.200 of hypostasis in nature is part of the confusion. How 39 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.279 there's a development, you could say, in the understanding of 40 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.679 those terms. We're not saying there's a development in doctrine, 41 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.919 but there is a development in which terms will become 42 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:14.000 precise in our theology over time. And David has done 43 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.039 a lot of research into the actual writings of those 44 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.840 in the opposing camps. And now this is relevant because 45 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:23.000 there's a lot of a false acumenism in our day 46 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.559 which assumes that, oh, well, all these positions are actually 47 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.159 just the same. We're also in the same stuff, so 48 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.279 there's no reason to fight anymore. And anybody who debates 49 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.679 or fights over these issues is unloving and mean and 50 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:38.440 has spiritual problems, which would mean that everybody at Chalcedon 51 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:40.840 was unloving and mean and had spiritual problems, because of 52 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.480 course they were debating these issues, and then for the 53 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.159 next two hundred years, in the next two councils, it's 54 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.120 actually the issues of Christology that get hashed out and debated, 55 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:53.240 particularly the topics will be discussing today. We're going to 56 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.799 cover a lot of those formative central texts and David 57 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.759 has done what three part series. I think I made 58 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:01.799 it through at least half or. 59 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:06.119 I'm doing great jay this this stream. Some people might 60 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.200 remember that we did the stream on Orientals as well, 61 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.599 it was Florence as well. But what's different, what's going 62 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.119 to be different about this stream is we're going to 63 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.839 be diving more in dept. That stream was kind of 64 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.559 dealing with the common misconceptions. This stream is going to 65 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.519 be explaining pretty much the in depth Christology of Severus 66 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:32.319 of Antioch, Philuxinus of Madbug, and other Oriental characters. And again, 67 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.880 the reason why I even started doing this is it 68 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:38.319 didn't sit right with me when I heard so many 69 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.519 people say, oh, you know, for for sixteenth centuries, for 70 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:46.039 like all this time we were actually believing in the 71 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.559 believing in the same exact belief, but we just had 72 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:55.880 terminological problems. And I saw a lot of different argumentations 73 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.799 from copts, which made me say, Okay, I'm going to 74 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.559 look into this. I'm going to research and see what 75 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.279 both sides say, and the theology is really not the same. 76 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.400 And when I made the video series, which by the way, 77 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.839 if you want to watch like you can watch in 78 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.039 any order, like if you want to start with part three, 79 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.480 if you want to start with geophysicism in the photos, 80 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:20.000 that's fine. You don't have to like watch it chronologically. 81 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.359 When I started to upload the videos, one interesting thing 82 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.160 that happened is that various different coptic priests have said 83 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.400 that I don't really understand these issues. They said this 84 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.680 on face, I don't really understand these issues, but none 85 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:38.640 of them really explained how I don't understand these issues. 86 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.960 And one of them, at least when they were pressed, 87 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.720 they start to explain a little bit, but they showed 88 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.200 that they didn't. They had no idea what they were 89 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.200 talking about. So it really just seemed like, oh, he 90 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:53.839 doesn't has no idea. He thinks we're different, but we're not. 91 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.279 And just and this was back then, I only uploaded 92 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:01.319 like the introductory parts. So we're going to be talking about. 93 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.160 Why are they always arguing? Why are they always arguing 94 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.319 against us, by the way, if what we say is 95 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:07.160 not different. 96 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:11.599 Yeah, exactly. A lot of them like the way they act. 97 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.839 A lot of them act like we had many people 98 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.799 that were part the Oriental Communion and we asked them 99 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:19.480 who they bishop were in the discord server and none 100 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:21.519 of them really they didn't really want to say it. 101 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.519 So there's a there's a sentiment, especially between a laity 102 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:27.839 that like, oh, you know, we really are the same, 103 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.519 and the clergy are to they don't care enough to 104 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:34.279 actually talk about this. Farrington Peter Finks and he says 105 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:36.559 that he studied this for thirty years, and he says 106 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.920 that we're not different, but we don't accept Alkadon because 107 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.400 they don't say the magic words exactly. So the stuff 108 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.839 that we're going to be talking about is going to 109 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:49.920 be dealing with the history. We're going to be going 110 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.240 back to even fourteeny eight. I'm planning on giving like 111 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.039 a short summary of what happened, because this is all 112 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.359 going to be very relevant for people to understand what's 113 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:03.440 going on. As we probably all know, they have a 114 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.359 character calledness Stories In four twenty eight it becomes Patriarch 115 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.200 of Constantinople. He says, stupid stuff like Mary is not 116 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.440 the Mother of God and all that stuff. Saint Curle 117 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.960 starts reading The Fathers, and one interesting thing to note 118 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.559 while he's reading the Fathers is that he comes across 119 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.880 and this is important to note because this explains why 120 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.519 the term mea physics even came into play. Now, of course, 121 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.160 if you watch the first part, we say that we 122 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.240 don't do the word concept fallacy. The concept behind those 123 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:34.240 words is what matters. So Saint Curle reads certain atonation 124 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.400 letters when in reality they were written by a pollinarius. 125 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.559 And there are various different people that make note of this. 126 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:46.039 Timothy in his Ecclesiastical History, who's an Apollinarian disciple, says 127 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.000 that the term mea physicis was made by a pollinarius 128 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.599 in order to combat the innovation and heresies of the 129 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.960 Cappadocian fathers and of Saint Antonatius and all these different 130 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.000 people who in their eyes are preaching two natures. So 131 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:03.160 I think this is kind of important to note. But 132 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.400 he came across this term when he was researching about 133 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.119 the Fathers, and he thought it was generally from Saint Antinasius. 134 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.920 Now today we know that it's not from Saint Antonatius. 135 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.480 It's a pollinarian forgeries, but it's important to note because 136 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.200 this is really how the term comes to play. Then 137 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.079 first council of emphasis happens. There's an historic council that's 138 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.400 a split between Antwerk and Alexandri. This is very important 139 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:29.839 because two years later, in four twenty three, there's a 140 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.440 formula of reunion. There's a there's a reunion between Alexander 141 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:41.319 and Antioch, two patriarchates that have different christologies. And one 142 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:43.599 interesting thing and this is in letter turned nine and 143 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.279 Saint Carrol that's going to be very relevant when we're 144 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.279 talking about Pope Saint Leo is that he says that 145 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.440 we know the theologians make some things of the evangelical 146 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.079 and epostolic teaching about the Lord commonists pertaining to the 147 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.440 one person and other things they divide as the two 148 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.799 natures and attribute the word he wants to God on 149 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.519 account of the divinity of Christ and the lovely ones 150 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:05.759 on account of his humanity. So this is very relevant 151 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.279 because Pope Saint Louis is the exact same thing in 152 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.720 his tomb, but this is not acceptable for him, and 153 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.839 we're going to get into how they defend this from 154 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.200 Saint Carol, and then Saint Kurle argues against After the reunion, 155 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.759 he argues against Theodore of Mopsuestia and the fifth secure 156 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.000 Medical Council, will we condemn him as a heretic and 157 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.240 he writes on the unity of Christ. He reposes, and 158 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.759 then other stuff happens, so that there's a council in 159 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.559 four forty eight under the presidency of Saint Flavian, he 160 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.359 deposed Utichius, and then a year later Dioscurus says, oh, no, 161 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:43.319 I have to save him because he doesn't teach. Oh 162 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:48.839 he was rejected out of a because of Astorianizing patriarchs Ephesis. 163 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:53.160 The second council happens. Saint Flavian, EBAs Theodore Dominus two 164 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.079 of Antioch are all deposed. A year lady Saint louis excommunicated, 165 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.640 so Dioscurus in one fell swoop just this excommunicating gets 166 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.519 rid of three major patriarchs and other patriarchs as well. 167 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.759 And so this is a big deal, right, This is 168 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.680 a huge issue that's going on, and this context is 169 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.240 important when we're talking about the Council of Kalkadon. And 170 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:21.000 in four fifty one, the Council of Kalkadon happens and begins. 171 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.160 And on the topic, by the way, j on the 172 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.160 topic of all we believe in the same thing. If 173 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.680 you look at the Troparia, if you look at the 174 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.720 Tropario of Severus from the Coptic liturgy. What's really funny 175 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.079 is that they refer to us as heretics. They refer 176 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.519 to Calkeedonias as heretics. But now today, sixteenth centuries later, 177 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.680 suddenly we believe the same thing, even though in their 178 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.759 liturgy they refer to Calcadonius as heretics. As you think, 179 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:53.640 this is like absolutely silly. We believe in the same thing, 180 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.799 but apparently we are heretics. How how exactly? But so 181 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.480 what are the oriental problem in the Council of Caltada. 182 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.920 And if you watch the part two of my video 183 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.039 series you will I deal with that with I deal 184 00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:12.079 with that argument extensively. So on one problem they have 185 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.000 is that all you you first said that Christ is 186 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.079 out of two natures, and then you insert into nature's right. 187 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.920 And that's one of the arguments they use to say 188 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.319 that there's a direction going to the way of news 189 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.880 stories because he said the same thing. So this is 190 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.279 an example of word concept fallacy. In here Nestorius used 191 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.039 into natures. Therefore we cannot say into natures. And as 192 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:39.359 a matter of fact, Severus I believe Saint Justinian uh 193 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:43.160 cited Severus in saying this. Saint Justinian says that he 194 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:47.160 makes he makes a point that Severus argues that all 195 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:49.519 you know, when when the Father spoke of two natures, 196 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.039 that was fine, but then came Nestorius, and now it's 197 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.519 not fine. So Necessarius kind of poisoned the term in 198 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.279 there eyes. And this is a great example of just 199 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:04.079 the word consp fallacy, genetic fallacy. But the main problem 200 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:09.400 with the tom of Leo, there's two problems. The one 201 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:14.000 problem is that Pope Saint Leo talks about forms operating 202 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.039 and seemingly independently in their eyes right, so he speaks 203 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.680 of two forms of Christ, and they think that those 204 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:25.119 two forms of Christ means two persons. The problem with 205 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:31.400 that is because Pope Saint Leo has a vested understanding 206 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:36.759 of christology. Forms mean essence, it doesn't mean hypostasis, it 207 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:37.359 doesn't mean. 208 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.720 Any And listen, you see this in Augustine. Augustine does 209 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.880 the same thing in his sections in the City of God, 210 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.519 where he cites the Platonists, he cites God as the 211 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.680 first form, which actually is a mistake in Orthodox theology 212 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.319 of Augustine theology is actually incorrect here, but it shows 213 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:55.920 it backs up what you're saying, because Augustine is using 214 00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.119 form in the sense of essence or nature. And there's 215 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.319 a whole chapter in Brad shows the book on that exactly. 216 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.440 And and if you want to add, I use this 217 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.279 quote in Michalkadan video Saint Gregor of Nissa. He says, 218 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:10.720 the human nature does not give new life to Laster, 219 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.200 so that itself. If Saint Leo said this, this will 220 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.359 be deemed as heretical. But this is Saint Gregrif Nissa 221 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.519 against Eunomius that says this. And then there's another quote 222 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:23.519 from Pope Saint Leu in his tone where they argue, oh, 223 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.440 you know, he asks which nature was on the cross? Well, actually, 224 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.960 Saint Gregri Nissa again and against Eunomius says asks which 225 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.200 form is beaten in the passion and which is glorified 226 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:38.759 from eternity. So he's talking about the human form, meaning 227 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:42.000 the human essence was beaten in the passion, which is 228 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.319 exactly the same thing that Pope, Saint Leo says, So 229 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:49.599 again these are arguments that Orientals use, but the responses 230 00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:52.519 are fairly simple. So again I'm keeping it simple. If 231 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.039 you want the full explanation, you can look at part 232 00:26:55.079 --> 00:27:02.160 two again. So about about letter thirty nine of Saint 233 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:06.519 Crole Severus and Phililitis. This is text four phil Alitis. 234 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.119 So if you have this is from the Pauline Allen 235 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:14.160 book on Severus of Antioch. Texts four Severus essentially says, 236 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:19.039 in his defense of Saint Curle talking about dividing quote 237 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.000 unquote divide in Christ's actions and attributing the divine wants 238 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.000 the divinity, he says that he actually didn't mean it. 239 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.759 I'm not kidding. He says, oh, he didn't mean it. 240 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.119 He just made them anathematized their positions, and then he said, oh, 241 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:37.200 he just let them praddle on like stupid kids. And 242 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.119 he didn't actually mean it when he said that, which 243 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:45.160 is again an example of rationalization in our view, and 244 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.319 it has really bad implications on Saint Krole's view. I mean, 245 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.519 if Saint kil didn't really mean what he said, doesn't 246 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.319 that mean that he's fine with nestorianizing ideas. Will't that 247 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.319 imply that he will be fine in Kalkadon because he 248 00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.759 didn't mean what he said. Again, this has bad implications 249 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.720 for him. Another big issue they have is that kal 250 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:11.200 Kadon accepted EBAs and Theodorit, which are two historian sympathizers. Now, 251 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.119 in terms of theodor It, if you actually read his 252 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.640 book Eeronistas, which was composed in four forty seven, there 253 00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.960 are numerous things that he says in Aeronistas, which is 254 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:21.279 actually the things that Saint kill says. I'm not going 255 00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.440 to go over them, but you could. But again, I'll 256 00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.880 deal with those things and with Ibas. He has a 257 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.920 bad letter about how he doesn't like Saint Kyle, but 258 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.880 he doesn't really speak of theology. Not to mention, his 259 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:37.599 acceptance was based on a reversal of the Council of 260 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.440 Ephesus too, so it was based on reversing the effects 261 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.480 of the Second Ficiene Council, which kal Kadan was based on. 262 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.920 And not to mention again, his letter where he was 263 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.799 condemning Saint Kilt was written for thirty three, back when 264 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:52.640 he was a priest, not when he was a bishop, 265 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.480 back when Saint Kyle himself was alive and there's another 266 00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.039 example of word concept faucy Jay. They will say a 267 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:05.200 Hisstorius accepted the Kalakdonian Council. He said, oh, I believe 268 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:07.680 in the same thing, which is funny. I mentioned this 269 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:10.400 in the video. Arius does the same thing. It's the 270 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.240 Council of Nicea. Ten years later, yes, he says, I 271 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:15.640 accept the Council of Nicea. 272 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.519 So yeah, that was a great point that you made. 273 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.960 I mean, just because someone claims to accept something, that 274 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.680 doesn't mean that the council is therefore erroneous. I mean, 275 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.079 that's a ridiculous argument. And by the way, Basil in 276 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.839 his writings is constantly having to deal with the word 277 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.599 concept fallacy. We deal with it constantly as well, with 278 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.720 idiots like Jonathan Hill, who will say that because the 279 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.440 term natural theology is used in Saint Maximus, therefore he 280 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:46.000 means natural theology in the tonistic sense, which is ridiculous. 281 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:52.079 And Bradshaw has entire sections refuting that notion. Again, Father 282 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.599 Stanieloy has entire sections refuting the notion that we believe 283 00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:58.920 in in the tonistic version of natural theology. So again, 284 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.559 word concept fallas he is at the root. It's a 285 00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:08.079 central problem here in this debate with the Nonchalcedonians because 286 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.119 they're married, on the one hand to the phraseology of 287 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.799 Saint Cyril, when Saint Cyril was himself not married to 288 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.480 one definitional sense of this terminology. This is the problem 289 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.359 with all of these heretics and all these people who 290 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:25.000 don't have any ability to understand nuance is that they 291 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.680 try to squish everything into a one dimensional notion. And 292 00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:31.559 once they do that, in their minds, they think they've 293 00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:34.799 got some kind of key to refuting everyone else, but 294 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:36.680 it just actually makes them look ridiculous. 295 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.720 Not to mention, it's the same Jonathan Hill that sided 296 00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:42.160 it to coptics. 297 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.240 Right, Yeah, he'll sign with coptics. He'll find anybody who's 298 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.079 in a disagreement with us to try to find common cause, 299 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:51.319 because he's psychotic by the way, he's bipolar and he's 300 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:51.759 on meds. 301 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.480 And not to mention, to prove that Sanco wasn't married 302 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.759 to one phraseology, there's letter fifty three. There's his statement 303 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:02.960 on Gleffire on the Pentitiic. But letter fifty three is 304 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.400 very insightful because he says Christ is in and out 305 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.000 of two natures. So he says exactly what Pope Saint 306 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:13.599 Agatos says two centuries later, who also says that Christ 307 00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.519 is in and out of two natures, which is affirming 308 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.039 the both formulas. Right, both formulas at Saint curl Usus. 309 00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.519 So we're actually not the devices, we're actually accepting the 310 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.000 correct interpretation of both formulas. Really, the main debate is 311 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.240 rejection of the Diophysite formula, which is by the way, patristic. 312 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:37.440 And this is again as I proved Timothy the student 313 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:43.119 of Apollinarias himself amidst this and another objection I've seen, 314 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.839 and this is this is a silly objection. The word 315 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.920 hypostatic union was not used in the Council of calcadan 316 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.200 Therefore Calcadonis don't believe in hypostatic union. I mean, can 317 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:54.039 you really believe this? 318 00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:58.000 Yeah, this is so many stupid arguments. I mean, it's 319 00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.960 like you had some really good comebacks on this point 320 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.839 in your videos. By the way, I think that was 321 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:05.279 solid argumentation. Absolutely. 322 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.759 Yeah. And it also shows right like the way people 323 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.920 defending Kalkadon, it's not like they didn't appeal to a 324 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.440 certain patriarch. They defended it's on the grounds of its theology, 325 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:18.559 which is very important now I want to talk about. 326 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.759 This is kind of like the basic issues in the 327 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:25.240 Coptic Church. I've gone when I'm talking about the responses. 328 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:29.680 I didn't make up these responses, like I heard these 329 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:34.279 responses from other Coptic and Oriental Christians. So one response 330 00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.680 I've heard is about unleavened bread, and I think you 331 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.720 can explain this as well. So the Armenian Church uses 332 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:44.319 unleavened bread. The response I got, Jay is that, Oh, 333 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.759 it's merely a jurisdictional preference. It's not that big of 334 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:49.759 a deal. Can you explain to me, Jay, why that's 335 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.559 why it's not merely a jurisdictional preference, Why it's such 336 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:53.039 a big deal. 337 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.039 Well, the ancient Canon's actually forbid doing that, and it 338 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.839 would be a movement back to judaizing. It would be 339 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.720 a movement back to the Old Testament conceptions. That's the 340 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:08.160 reasoning why in the early Canons it's not that practice 341 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.559 is forbidden. So, and this is exactly why Armenians would 342 00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:13.640 do things like sacrifice the chicken at the door of 343 00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:17.400 the the church on whatever ceremony, because this is a 344 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.160 They're they're tempted with judaizing it. That's why. 345 00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:25.559 Yeah, there's another objection I heard the cousin marriages and 346 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.880 the Egyptian Church. The argument I heard was it's merely cultural, 347 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:33.440 so it's okay. But I heard a good response from 348 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:37.640 my friend Nick who said marriage is theological right. You 349 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:41.519 can't separate marriage and just make cultural marriage and theology like, 350 00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:44.279 you can't separate these two. These are two intertwined things. 351 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:47.480 So it wasn't really enough. But by the way, for 352 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.400 the audience, I mean, these aren't arguments that are like, 353 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.160 they won't really one hundred percent direly prough all this 354 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:58.640 church is wrong. It just showcases certain problems. We'll get 355 00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.359 to the real issues really soon. And it is the 356 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.079 circumcision in the Coptic Church. As a matter of fact, 357 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:06.480 if you look at Florence Bull of the Union with 358 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:10.119 the Cops, this is their motivation for seeing that those 359 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.199 that are circumcised are damned because people in the Coptic 360 00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.360 Church this circumcision. And as a response, the Roman Catholic 361 00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:18.320 Church said, oh, you know, if you do a circumcision, 362 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.719 you're damned. Bull of the Union with Cops, No. 363 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.000 I mean this was already condemned, and things like Trollo 364 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.280 and the Canons of Trollo. I mean this is already 365 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.840 was already condemned by us as well, exactly. I mean, 366 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.679 it's just ridiculous. How are you gonna go back to 367 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.039 these practices which the New Testament obviously forbids, the Ancient 368 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:41.440 Church forbids I mean obviously. And by the way, they 369 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:44.280 are a Chumenists. This is another point that is often 370 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.039 forgotten is that they will team up with Roman Catholics 371 00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:50.840 against Orthodox. They will team up they all the time. Yeah, 372 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:53.679 so there, and they don't actually agree amongst themselves, these 373 00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.840 oriental communions, but they'll team up against Us with people 374 00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:59.840 who are far worse, like Roman Catholics. 375 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.320 Yeah, I see this generally. I've seen multiple apologists just refusing. Now, 376 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.639 to their credit, I've seen certain people, one of them 377 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.960 who I'm debating with, he actually does represent the position 378 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.199 faithfully and he does attack like Roman Catholics as well 379 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:21.440 Protestants too. But most of the people that I talked to, 380 00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:23.800 they only focus on Orthodox. They don't even talk about 381 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.320 Roman Catholics. They only focus on Orthodox. And this has 382 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:30.039 to be noted. There's like, really online, there's a lot 383 00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:33.880 of Oriental groups and most of these are like Western converts, 384 00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:38.400 they're most of them are caatic humans. And all they 385 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.320 do is they're just trying to find like inquiries. The 386 00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:45.000 Orthodox Church get them and just bombard them with all 387 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.639 you know, Kalkadon, this is a historian. Here's like, here's this, 388 00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.000 this and this. Like you guys are an historian. You 389 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.280 should come to the true Church. And they do this 390 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:57.119 a lot. But that has to be noted to get 391 00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.039 onto the real stuff. This is the this is the 392 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:03.920 beautiful stuff theology. First, I would like to talk about terminology. 393 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:07.239 I'm going to dive much deeper into terminology in part one. 394 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.559 I kind of events like very basic. So one thing 395 00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:12.800 we have to make sure, and I will avoid seeing 396 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.559 the word nature as much as I can unless I'm 397 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.880 quoting someone, because for us, nature obviously means essence, right, 398 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.039 it means essence. For them it means hypostasis, and in 399 00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:27.599 some cases it means essence as well, but only in 400 00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:32.480 terms of Trinitarian theology. So in Severus's Letters sixty five, 401 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:35.559