Speaker 1: You wouldn't believe it. The after Dark feed has returned.
Speaker 1: Still in the darkness, it lives, It lives in the
Speaker 1: dark and in this case, the fog. Because this is
Speaker 1: a very special episode we are talking this is okay,
Speaker 1: I need to get this out that you might know
Speaker 1: this from the title, but I need to make it clear.
Speaker 1: This is a spoiler cast about Silent Hill f Meaning
Speaker 1: if you do not want to be spoiled on things,
Speaker 1: go elsewhere, turn this off, turn this off, come back,
Speaker 1: and then find your way through the fog once you
Speaker 1: complete the lost and Fog difficulty on combat and puzzle
Speaker 1: in Silent Hill f and then you'll.
Speaker 2: Know what Bill I feel like.
Speaker 3: It's also important to like preface this with even if
Speaker 3: you have.
Speaker 2: Rolled credits once, be ready.
Speaker 3: We are going to talk about stuff that happens in
Speaker 3: New Game Plus because it's substantially different. So if you
Speaker 3: do want to have that experience preserved, also, maybe come
Speaker 3: back and listen after you played a couple of times.
Speaker 1: An apt piece of input from Jessica Cogswell, who's joining
Speaker 1: us on the special podcast, who is also the reviewer
Speaker 1: of Solent f Hello.
Speaker 2: Jessica, Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm also joined right next to me to with a
Speaker 1: Lucy James.
Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, should say it like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Uh And yes Toess's point, just because you roll
Speaker 1: credits on Salent Hill f does not mean you have
Speaker 1: completed the story. H And trust me, I have been
Speaker 1: people have seen me in the office, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: Jessica has felt this too. Even from Afar, I have
Speaker 1: been a bottled up piece of anxiety and energy and
Speaker 1: wanting to talk about this game, but also not wanting
Speaker 1: to talk about it, and like I am, so this
Speaker 1: is gonna be one of the most cathartic days of
Speaker 1: my life. Oh to be able to talk about this game,
Speaker 1: but also specifically here Jessica talk about it because her
Speaker 1: and I have been been We've been chatting.
Speaker 4: Oh you've had black threads.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I have to say.
Speaker 3: So one thing that I love I mean, I love
Speaker 3: many things about you, Kurt, but one thing I really
Speaker 3: love about you is in this I guess to be
Speaker 3: transparent with Like, so I saw I saw some games
Speaker 3: recently at a showcase, and I went to Kurt and
Speaker 3: I was like, I had okay time, but nothing really
Speaker 3: blew me away, And Kurt was just like welcome to
Speaker 3: kind of my experience in the industry. I have similar
Speaker 3: feelings where like I like a lot of stuff, but
Speaker 3: it takes something that's like really special to kind of
Speaker 3: stand out for me. And it's been so cool playing
Speaker 3: this game and talking to Kurt about it because I
Speaker 3: can tell that it's something special to.
Speaker 2: You, because you've been like so a buzz.
Speaker 3: About it and just like talking talking like theories and like, oh,
Speaker 3: I got to show you this clip. I got it,
Speaker 3: and it's it's been so lovely to see you kind.
Speaker 1: Of light up about it, actually see me enthusiastic about
Speaker 1: something for.
Speaker 4: Once, to see enthusiastic about a game that's not but
Speaker 4: I hid an object puzzle kind of well, it kind.
Speaker 1: Of is, I can kind of is.
Speaker 3: But I appreciate it though, Like it feels like whenever
Speaker 3: you do like something, it's very authentic and so I
Speaker 3: appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well trust me, I uh, I appreciate that because
Speaker 1: I think it's okay. In our in our neck of
Speaker 1: the woods, we see a lot of things, and we
Speaker 1: see a lot of games, and there's there can be
Speaker 1: a I don't know, I don't know if I want
Speaker 1: to call it expectation, but like, it can be hard
Speaker 1: when you like, you see so many games and it's
Speaker 1: when for me it's like, I don't know. In my nature,
Speaker 1: I'm a very opinionated person for better or for word,
Speaker 1: and uh that means when something comes along that I like,
Speaker 1: I most cases absolutely love it. So when this game,
Speaker 1: every year there's at least one game, and this year
Speaker 1: for me it's Sound Hill af where I was like,
Speaker 1: but we'll get into it. I want to frame this
Speaker 1: podcast really quick before we get into the think of
Speaker 1: it because the three of us have I think, come
Speaker 1: from interesting perspectives on this specifically yes, because one I
Speaker 1: am not traditionally a Silent Hill fan. Two, this is
Speaker 1: Lucy James's first Silent Hill game, yes, and then Jess
Speaker 1: is an og Silent Hill fan.
Speaker 3: So it's so as I was just talking to somebody
Speaker 3: about this today and I want to be upfront because
Speaker 3: I don't want someone to call me out and be like,
Speaker 3: wait a second. I love Silent Hill. I am a
Speaker 3: baby about horror aams, but I love horror like I
Speaker 3: love to read horror books. I love horror movies. I
Speaker 3: love the genre. I think it's so interesting and I
Speaker 3: love horror games too, but I've always been a baby
Speaker 3: about playing them. So a lot of my experience with
Speaker 3: like Silent Hill or even like Resident Evil comes from
Speaker 3: a lot of like watching entire let's plays or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, and also like walk like in video essays and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So I am like that kind of nerd.
Speaker 2: So this is other than two. This is the first
Speaker 2: one I played entirely, but I've watched all of them.
Speaker 4: If what makes people.
Speaker 1: Feel better, I mean, I don't know. It's uh. The
Speaker 1: one thing I'll say is I don't think any of
Speaker 1: the soilnd Hole games are fun to play.
Speaker 4: I can only go from.
Speaker 3: This one, but I mean that f is probably, from
Speaker 3: what I've seen, at least like the most fun, and
Speaker 3: even then, like I don't know, I feel like combat
Speaker 3: is not the focus of that game and fun gameplay,
Speaker 3: So it's kind of a weird gauge.
Speaker 1: I think it certainly gets more fun, Yes it does,
Speaker 1: and we'll get into that in.
Speaker 4: Which we will get into. But in terms of I
Speaker 4: think I approach the gameplay of this in a very
Speaker 4: particular way. I think I must be really annoying to
Speaker 4: watch play games, and I used to stream, so I
Speaker 4: guess people could tell me this. I check every single corner, particularly,
Speaker 4: I am obsessive, and so my first play through of
Speaker 4: Sulent Hill F I was, you know, friends of mine
Speaker 4: are kind of dropping in and out and watching me,
Speaker 4: and I was like, I'm so sorry. Is this even
Speaker 4: fun for you? Because I approach it with methodicalness and
Speaker 4: a meticulousness where it's sort of as if I'm setting
Speaker 4: pacing for myself by deliberately slowing myself down to check
Speaker 4: every single nook and cranny. And I think Silent Hill
Speaker 4: F in particular certainly rewards you with that, with the
Speaker 4: notes and even just incidental things in we'll get to that.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, deliberately slowing it down rather than
Speaker 4: you know, if I play an action game, I'll just
Speaker 4: you know, combat, run to the next bit, combat next, next.
Speaker 1: Do you have the do you have the you have
Speaker 1: the thing that I do where when a cut scene ends,
Speaker 1: I always immediately turn around. So in a game, whenever
Speaker 1: I play a game and the cut scene ends and
Speaker 1: your characters facing the direction you're supposed to go, it
Speaker 1: is my impulse to immediately turn around and see and
Speaker 1: to see.
Speaker 3: I've never thought about it, but yes, I do always
Speaker 3: do that. I feel like I was just like turn
Speaker 3: to the side because I'm like, okay, there's not like
Speaker 3: a path over this way or whatever. There's not like
Speaker 3: an item now behind me, and so like never thought
Speaker 3: about it, But yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think that's I do that instinctually.
Speaker 4: I would do it if there's a game where I'm
Speaker 4: specifically collecting things, because there's always gonna be something behind you,
Speaker 4: just as there will always be something, you know, if
Speaker 4: I go down this this little path or behind this
Speaker 4: wultifool's going to be something.
Speaker 1: There's always something behind the waterfowl. All right, Jess, you
Speaker 1: reviewed it, you gave it.
Speaker 3: A I gave it a nine. I think it's and
Speaker 3: it's one of those things too where I gave it
Speaker 3: a nine because it's not like a perfect game, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like I like, you can read
Speaker 3: my review and you can kind of see the feedback
Speaker 3: that I gave it there at the same time when
Speaker 3: I put it, so I'm like a nerd. I think, okay, Lucy,
Speaker 3: Lucy will relate to this. I use notion a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have like my own.
Speaker 3: Spreadsheet on there where I track all the games that
Speaker 3: I've played, and like I put my personal notes in
Speaker 3: like my personal review. In my personal Notion review, I
Speaker 3: give it a five out of five because I do
Speaker 3: think so I don't know. So there's the game spot
Speaker 3: review and there's the official unofficial Jessica Cogswell Notion review,
Speaker 3: which is a five out of five that.
Speaker 2: Only I can see.
Speaker 3: But I think that it's fantastic, And the biggest thing
Speaker 3: to me is it's story and its themes and the
Speaker 3: way that it handles what it's handling. Without delving too
Speaker 3: much into it right here, because I'm sure we're going
Speaker 3: to talk at length about it, I think it does
Speaker 3: it in a very masterful way, in a way that
Speaker 3: really resonated with me and felt very cathartic by the
Speaker 3: time that I kind of finished.
Speaker 1: Things on a Bashit is the way I would put it, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like there's there's plenty of media
Speaker 1: and horror movies and things that have tackled similar topics,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I can't. It's so hard for me
Speaker 1: to specifically touch on a piece of art or media
Speaker 1: that touches on all the things this game touches on,
Speaker 1: whether it's like femininity, the rights of a person, in
Speaker 1: the sixties in nineteen sixty Japan, on top of like
Speaker 1: interpersonal relationships, interpersonal dilemmas with people in your relationships, and
Speaker 1: then on top of that medication and like like how
Speaker 1: those things are like blanket problems, and on top of that,
Speaker 1: it's also just like intense body horror.
Speaker 4: And the one thing that I think is perhaps a
Speaker 4: parallel that I kept coming back to would.
Speaker 1: Be carry m mm hmm, but that's a good one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but instead of I suppose medication would be the
Speaker 4: use of religion. Yeah, and yeah, I was. I think
Speaker 4: the thing that got me about Silent Hill f is
Speaker 4: immediately when I started playing, I just kind of not
Speaker 4: that I didn't trust everything, but I over analyzed every
Speaker 4: single interaction I thought there was. For a while, I
Speaker 4: thought there was like a different kinds of abuse happening
Speaker 4: with the sister or with Hinnoco or with the father,
Speaker 4: And it was just because there are so many ways
Speaker 4: you can interpret so much of it. And that's obviously
Speaker 4: just on the first play through, and then things get
Speaker 4: recontextualized as you replay it and experience new parts of
Speaker 4: the story. But it was I was very surprised, but
Speaker 4: also at the same time just really it, like just said,
Speaker 4: it was very cathartic.
Speaker 3: It's so I'm actually curious. I have a question for
Speaker 3: both of you. Did you think that the twist was
Speaker 3: something entirely different? Because I was convinced through my first
Speaker 3: playthrough until I rolled credits and got like the police
Speaker 3: scene afterwards, I was convinced it was like a totally
Speaker 3: different thing.
Speaker 4: My theory for the for the majority of me playing
Speaker 4: it was I believed she had some kind of dissociative
Speaker 4: personality that she had manifested as a result of abuse,
Speaker 4: and that personality became the protector role, and that's where
Speaker 4: like she lost part of herself and put on the
Speaker 4: mask and she had like the different abilities and the
Speaker 4: powers in the arm, and so that was what I
Speaker 4: kept thinking in my brain.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, which is not entirely Yeah, wrong to
Speaker 1: answer your question, Jess, I feel too. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was. I was. I'm so used to playing sound
Speaker 1: hell games and knowing what they end up being that
Speaker 1: I was very deliberately just trying to I always try
Speaker 1: to experience things in the moment as they are happening.
Speaker 1: In any moment, I try, like I start to think,
Speaker 1: like maybe assume one thing. I just have to be like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't do so I
Speaker 1: always try to absorb it and just wait to the end.
Speaker 1: But as as in my nature, I was absorbing. I
Speaker 1: was looking at every single character, enemy design type and
Speaker 1: be like this, I know how Silent Hill works, I
Speaker 1: know how they conceptualize these things. I know how they
Speaker 1: think about their monsters, and I know how it's all
Speaker 1: supposed to tie into something. So if anything, I was
Speaker 1: less analytical about her interactions and more staring at the
Speaker 1: monsters themselves, being like, what are you representing? What are
Speaker 1: you trying to be?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: Gee, I wonder what the pregnant bellies wanted.
Speaker 1: I was attached to the back of a man. So
Speaker 1: one question a half for you, jess Or at least
Speaker 1: it's something I want to absolutely praise you for for
Speaker 1: being not only just an incredible writer, but an incredible
Speaker 1: The ability to talk about a piece of media so
Speaker 1: eloquently is you did that entire review without even remotely
Speaker 1: spoiling anything. And I want to one applaud you because
Speaker 1: five half of that game. I don't know why you
Speaker 1: didn't talk about, but I think it is a testament
Speaker 1: to be able to talk about a piece of media
Speaker 1: without having to specifically point and get nitty gritty about something.
Speaker 1: So I want to get your perspective on writing this
Speaker 1: review without talking about anything that happens past a certain
Speaker 1: point in Shoe's house.
Speaker 3: Gosh, I'm trying to think of how I ended up
Speaker 3: doing this review.
Speaker 2: I feel like I.
Speaker 3: Know some people and I think it depends on the game,
Speaker 3: but this game is very much a atmosphere, vibe, story
Speaker 3: driven game. So for me, it's not like I'm sitting
Speaker 3: there really collecting notes. I know some people are like
Speaker 3: religious note takers, and it's so weird because that seems
Speaker 3: very contrary to like my entire personality. But I wasn't
Speaker 3: really taking notes. I just wanted to like experience it
Speaker 3: and get lost in the fog. And when I went
Speaker 3: to write it, I think that it was just really
Speaker 3: important to because, like I said, I kind of had
Speaker 3: a whole different theory about what was going on, and
Speaker 3: then I got to the end, and in some ways
Speaker 3: it's more straightforward than I thought, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: it's very ambiguous. And I played the second time before
Speaker 3: I started writing my review, and I got to the
Speaker 3: end of that, and it kind of made me tear
Speaker 3: up a little bit, and I just really wanted to
Speaker 3: preserve that same sensation for people who would play it.
Speaker 3: And so I don't know, So I guess that's like
Speaker 3: the biggest thing is it's just kind of comes out
Speaker 3: of place of like trying to be compassionate and understand that,
Speaker 3: like I need to kind of avoid that to talk
Speaker 3: about it. And I think that sometimes my reviews or
Speaker 3: even just like my writing can be kind of flowery.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, when it comes to a
Speaker 3: game that is like Silent Hill, where it is, like
Speaker 3: I said, very atmospheric, I think that by digging into
Speaker 3: that and conveying that that is what it's trying to do,
Speaker 3: it gives people a pretty solid understanding of the game.
Speaker 3: So leaning into that was kind of the key, and
Speaker 3: just making sure that I spent my time to kind
Speaker 3: of create a little piece of this world because I
Speaker 3: think it's a really special one.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask you this, so I want to take
Speaker 1: it back. What was your take on that first play through?
Speaker 1: What did you think was happening by the end that
Speaker 1: I came.
Speaker 3: Well, it's so funny, Okay, So what I thought was happening,
Speaker 3: and sorry, this is kind of dark, but I think
Speaker 3: it is one of the trigger warnings. I thought that
Speaker 3: Quinoko maybe committed suicide, and I thought that she was
Speaker 3: kind of in like have you ever seen the movie
Speaker 3: Wrist Cutters. It was like some indie movie that came
Speaker 3: on twenty something years ago. I thought it was kind
Speaker 3: of like in a weird limbo place like that, and
Speaker 3: that's what she was going through. And I kind of like,
Speaker 3: once it started with the Hinko is Dead stuff with Rinko,
Speaker 3: I was like, maybe that's what's going on. Maybe there
Speaker 3: was just like all of this pressure and she feels
Speaker 3: abandoned by her sister. She has these problems at home,
Speaker 3: like maybe this happened, and she's kind of like deciding,
Speaker 3: not deciding, but like going through the motions of like
Speaker 3: do I want to live and what kind of life
Speaker 3: do I want to live and all of the things
Speaker 3: that adolescents kind of do go through at that time.
Speaker 3: I feel like, or at least.
Speaker 1: What you thought, Yeah, you thought, it's not doing that.
Speaker 2: It's it's not that uh, it's not actually that dark,
Speaker 2: which is you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also I also did have a similar suspicion.
Speaker 1: But again, I try to keep my theories at bay
Speaker 1: to just kind of take it as is, but that
Speaker 1: was definitely one of those like, oh, maybe this happened,
Speaker 1: or oh maybe she was killed by her father, or
Speaker 1: like oh like throwing the knife.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And for a second I thought that maybe
Speaker 3: she killed her father, Like when that scene was happening,
Speaker 3: I'm like, maybe she picked it up and like, and
Speaker 3: I think that that's kind of a testament to the
Speaker 3: fact that, like the I don't think that the game
Speaker 3: misleads you at all, Like it doesn't intentionally try to,
Speaker 3: like it's it's definitely ambiguous at times, but it's not
Speaker 3: like trying to make you second guess or it's not
Speaker 3: trying to lead you down a path and then it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: just kidding, you know, it's not I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: not unfair in that regard or tricksy. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, I feel like there's a lot of interpretations
Speaker 3: and it did it actually genuinely surprise me at times.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the so you brought up
Speaker 1: the carry thing, which I think is like rock solid comparison,
Speaker 1: and it's I obviously there this game is doing like
Speaker 1: when this game is first being previeuw by you, just
Speaker 1: I couldn't help it be like, all right, it's a
Speaker 1: game about being a woman, a sixteen year old woman
Speaker 1: from what we understood originally being written by a guy
Speaker 1: not and like it just was I wasn't not as
Speaker 1: familiar with his other work and it's just one of
Speaker 1: those things where was like, well, we've had a lot
Speaker 1: of media written by both men and women about being
Speaker 1: a woman, both bad cases, both good cases. And the
Speaker 1: thing is for me is like playing this game, I
Speaker 1: still had a lot like I really this game affected
Speaker 1: me deeply at times, like very specific scenes. There's stuff
Speaker 1: in the opening that game specific the very open cut
Speaker 1: scene when she's playing with the doll. Having watched that
Speaker 1: scene multiple times every time I watch it, even though
Speaker 1: it doesn't like the context of it doesn't really change
Speaker 1: all that much, but just absorbing it over and over
Speaker 1: and over again for all the playthroughs it did, it
Speaker 1: hits hard for me. I it was like there's like
Speaker 1: just heving this person be like I can't play with
Speaker 1: the boys, so therefore I'm not allowed to play with
Speaker 1: anyone until her sister's like, do you want to play
Speaker 1: with her with me, and like the excitement that that
Speaker 1: like that she feels as a darb, like really and
Speaker 1: then's a hard cut and this playing faced woman is
Speaker 1: just like it is brutal. Anyways, it's quick tangent about that, well,
Speaker 1: go ahead, something that.
Speaker 3: I really love because I want to and I wanted
Speaker 3: to talk to you about it because you know, there's
Speaker 3: not enough male representation in games. But but something that
Speaker 3: I loved about the game is that in like the
Speaker 3: second and third playthrough, we also kind of it's it's like,
Speaker 3: I think it's very very very fair to say this
Speaker 3: is a very feminist game, but at the same time
Speaker 3: it does touch on something that's part of feminism, but
Speaker 3: it's also just kind of the the roles that men
Speaker 3: are meant to have and.
Speaker 2: And and kind of like the.
Speaker 3: I don't know, just like that the lack of emotion
Speaker 3: you can have, and and something that I really love
Speaker 3: too with Fox Mask or why can I not remember
Speaker 3: his actual name right now?
Speaker 2: Codro, I can't remember the boy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but Fox Mask in like the third ending
Speaker 3: that I saw, it's the one where essentially it's like
Speaker 3: this this figure maybe his dad's kind of what interpret
Speaker 3: it as or just like familiar figure basically starts to
Speaker 3: give him shit for like you tried to woo this girl,
Speaker 3: you know, by basically treating her like a person, and
Speaker 3: like that's not.
Speaker 2: The way to go.
Speaker 3: You should just claim it, like that's the way that
Speaker 3: this is done.
Speaker 2: And you know, like you.
Speaker 3: Are kind of lesser of a man for for like
Speaker 3: being passive in this when really you should just like
Speaker 3: go for it and make her, you know. And I
Speaker 3: think that that was I didn't expect it to kind
Speaker 3: of go into that side of like toxic masculinity, and
Speaker 3: I'm really happy that it did. And I don't know, Kurt,
Speaker 3: how was it for you to kind of did you
Speaker 3: like trust me?
Speaker 1: I mean, this thing was beating a drum that I
Speaker 1: was listening through the entire time, and when that scene happened.
Speaker 1: I don't have I don't come from a generationally traditional background,
Speaker 1: like I don't come from a family who has put
Speaker 1: expectations on me to do something that is not my choice.
Speaker 1: So watching that scene, it's like I had to be
Speaker 1: sympathetic to a man, this Fox Mass character who probably
Speaker 1: felt an overwhelming amount of pressure to have to do
Speaker 1: this because that is what is expected of him, just
Speaker 1: as it is for a woman to have to marry,
Speaker 1: like for Hanako to be forced to marry this man
Speaker 1: because of a mistake and a problem that her father did.
Speaker 1: So I mean for me, it was like, I was
Speaker 1: like all aboard from the very beginning with Hanako being
Speaker 1: a person who's going to make her own choices, even
Speaker 1: if those choices are bad or it don't make sense,
Speaker 1: because you know, this is a point that the writer
Speaker 1: made where it's like, I'm going to make this character,
Speaker 1: this female character, make her own choices, whether they're good
Speaker 1: or bad. She's making her own choices, and that was
Speaker 1: the only point to make. So for me, it was like, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: the one here, go for it.
Speaker 4: I didn't have any that I do, but the.
Speaker 1: One the before we move over to the lucy thread,
Speaker 1: the one thing I want to talk about in terms
Speaker 1: of toxic masculine or the thing you kind of started
Speaker 1: to talk about, Jess, was the expectation that men should
Speaker 1: solve problems, and I think she creating a medication to
Speaker 1: help Hanukko with her issues is in ways reflective as
Speaker 1: somebody just being like I care about you, I'm a dude,
Speaker 1: I'm going to fix that problem. For you, and in
Speaker 1: doing so he actually created mostly created a huge problem.
Speaker 1: So I think even then it's like, maybe that's a
Speaker 1: more subtle, more nuanced thing. But for me, when you
Speaker 1: talk about the expectation that a man is supposed to
Speaker 1: have in a situation, what I get is the stereotype
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, you can't reach that. I got
Speaker 1: that for you. Oh yeah, no, don't worry. It's the
Speaker 1: it's the angel cliche of the of the girlfriend or
Speaker 1: wife being like complaining about work and then the husband
Speaker 1: is like, will you do this? Will you do that?
Speaker 1: Trying to find solutions for them rather than just simply
Speaker 1: being like that sucks. I'm sorry that happened.
Speaker 2: So well, it's kind of and I'm so sorry, Lucie.
Speaker 2: I know you want to say it, but just to
Speaker 2: piggyback off of.
Speaker 3: This idea really quick, it's kind of interesting and something
Speaker 3: I didn't think of a ton as far as she
Speaker 3: like forcing himself to be in like that helper role
Speaker 3: and thinking that he's doing the right thing when he's
Speaker 3: making things worse, because it's like the reason that he
Speaker 3: gives her this medicine is because of tension. Hitts right,
Speaker 3: and like the real he's solving the symptom, right, but
Speaker 3: not the actual cause, and he's not like investing in,
Speaker 3: you know, like what's going on.
Speaker 2: In your life?
Speaker 4: Like he also comments on it. He even says like
Speaker 4: you always keep things buttoned up, you that's your problem.
Speaker 2: Partner, or like yeah, And so he's aware.
Speaker 4: Of it, but not to the state where he really
Speaker 4: digs in to find out what's up with her.
Speaker 3: Yes, and so it's like there's there's that aspect of it.
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, it's like when when
Speaker 3: you finish the second playthrough, or at least that's when
Speaker 3: I think what Fox wedding, And that's when Shoe is
Speaker 3: kind of melded into like the bad guy at the
Speaker 3: end there.
Speaker 2: The final boss.
Speaker 3: But one of the things that you know Shoe is
Speaker 3: talking about is just kind of feeling like or I
Speaker 3: guess I guess Hinko is more saying it to him,
Speaker 3: is you kind of always saw me as a boy.
Speaker 3: And in some respects I liked that because I never
Speaker 3: felt like super feminine and I felt very shoe box
Speaker 3: into that role that was designed for me. But at
Speaker 3: the same time, like I she even says like I
Speaker 3: don't hate the fact that I was born a girl,
Speaker 3: like and I relate to that because I remember feeling
Speaker 3: like that when I was younger too. It's like, I
Speaker 3: don't hate the fact that I was born a girl
Speaker 3: at all, Like I don't have that dysmorphia, Like it
Speaker 3: feels right, But at the same time, growing.
Speaker 2: Up can really be hard when like.
Speaker 3: Society treats you like shit because you are a one
Speaker 3: and so like her kind of going on this feel
Speaker 3: of me like, I don't mind that, but at the
Speaker 3: same time, you know, like I want to have that
Speaker 3: freedom and this you only saw one side of it,
Speaker 3: and so in a similar way, you were also restricting
Speaker 3: my freedom. You made me feel like I couldn't be feminine,
Speaker 3: like you never really saw me as like a potential
Speaker 3: romantic partner. Even if you did maybe have feelings, you
Speaker 3: never acted on that or made me feel seen. And
Speaker 3: it's once again, it's kind of like Shoe thinking, I'm
Speaker 3: doing the right thing. I view her this way, this
Speaker 3: is what she wants, this is who she is. I
Speaker 3: know her best, But at the same time, like he's
Speaker 3: he's not really seeing her, he doesn't he's not really
Speaker 3: doing the best thing for her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I was going to bring up the themes
Speaker 4: of growing up in particular as a woman. Not to
Speaker 4: dwell on this too much, but I think there's an
Speaker 4: obvious theme of menstruation in the game. Like I even
Speaker 4: at the end if we listen to the song with
Speaker 4: the translated lyrics and stuff, and that clearly mentions like
Speaker 4: getting a period. I couldn't help but think that, like
Speaker 4: the red chasing you as you are that age, like
Speaker 4: when she's what like fifteen sixteen, and you are at
Speaker 4: the age where you stop being seen as a little
Speaker 4: girl and you become you start being seen as a woman.
Speaker 4: And there are also other bits where it's you know,
Speaker 4: these references to Hinako dying in the rice field, like
Speaker 4: she drowned and stuff. I took that as, oh, that's
Speaker 4: the death of her as a child, like because she
Speaker 4: even mentioned she was like this is the last time
Speaker 4: I cried, And that's a death of part of her childhood.
Speaker 4: And I see Silent Hell f as a lot of
Speaker 4: deaths of her childhood. And the fact that the fog
Speaker 4: the flowers in bloom being read covering up the torsos
Speaker 4: of the monsters who are other women. And then yeah,
Speaker 4: when you get to the stage where it is the
Speaker 4: pregnancy bellies on a monster that's spitting out more and
Speaker 4: more enemies for you. It's just like, oh god, that
Speaker 4: was so on the nose, and it's like part of
Speaker 4: when I was growing up at least, and I was
Speaker 4: at this point in an all girls' school where you
Speaker 4: couldn't wait to start a period because it meant that
Speaker 4: you were finally growing up and stuff. And I think
Speaker 4: you lose what makes I don't know, like in kind
Speaker 4: of like looking ahead so so much. You kind of
Speaker 4: realize that you're leaving your childhood and all of the
Speaker 4: great stuff that happened there behind, and what you are
Speaker 4: going into instead is you are moving away from that
Speaker 4: life of comfort of being taken care of by your parents,
Speaker 4: your extended family or even your friend's school, like you're
Speaker 4: always looked after by adults. And then I think when
Speaker 4: you're a woman, at least in my school as we
Speaker 4: were growing up, it was like you hit that line
Speaker 4: in the sand and you're like, oh, you're an adult now,
Speaker 4: and it is a very jarring thing that is so scary.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, you start thinking about boys, You start
Speaker 4: thinking about dating and married and university and growing up
Speaker 4: and stuff. And it just feels like you have fifteen
Speaker 4: years of being an actual child and then overnight you
Speaker 4: have to become an adult with all of the expectations
Speaker 4: that come with that. And so for me, when I
Speaker 4: was playing, I was just like, oh god, I don't
Speaker 4: want to think about being fifteen again.
Speaker 3: No. I am so glad that you said that, and
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you were very unafraid to like
Speaker 3: broach menstruation and like, because like I completely agree with you.
Speaker 3: I think it's very like baked into the whole game,
Speaker 3: and like that's part of it. I mentioned like in
Speaker 3: the second play through I tear it up and it
Speaker 3: was like it.
Speaker 2: Was because of that.
Speaker 3: It reminds me of like the really depressing quote where
Speaker 3: it's like one time was like the last time you
Speaker 3: played with your friends at the end of the street,
Speaker 3: and like one time was the last time your parents
Speaker 3: picked you up and like said good night, And it's
Speaker 3: like all of those moments where you don't realize necessarily
Speaker 3: at the time that like this is the end of
Speaker 3: like that chapter of your life, but then you look
Speaker 3: back on it and you're like, oh my gosh, Like
Speaker 3: I don't like when I get sick like maybe maybe
Speaker 3: like my my husband will take care of me a
Speaker 3: little bit, right or like you know, friends or something
Speaker 3: like that. But it's not the same as for sure
Speaker 3: having you know, like like what, I have a kid now,
Speaker 3: when he gets sick, I'm taking care of him. It
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if I get sick because like I have
Speaker 3: to also take care of him. You don't get babied
Speaker 3: in that same way. And you know, there's also just
Speaker 3: like the issue of like just feeling very sexualized, like
Speaker 3: the second you hit that age.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think that they say, like the average girl won't girl
Speaker 3: You'd think you'd hope it was a woman, but the
Speaker 3: average girl experiences like the most amount of cat calling
Speaker 3: and harassment at like twelve years old.
Speaker 2: Or thirteen years old, you know, like don't I don't know,
Speaker 2: don't quote me on that.
Speaker 3: That's a statistic that I've seen. Who knows like where
Speaker 3: it's from, but like that, I've seen it repeatedly. I've
Speaker 3: seen it a few times that a lot of girls.
Speaker 3: It's like the age of like twelve thirteen is when
Speaker 3: you experience the most And I mean, first of all,
Speaker 3: it's just so disturbing, but.
Speaker 2: Also it's like.
Speaker 3: We're forced, I think, probably more so than men right
Speaker 3: to like just grow up a bit quicker. We always
Speaker 3: have to be kind of mature for our age, and
Speaker 3: it's hard to especially when you do reach that point
Speaker 3: where it flips, because you're told the first you know,
Speaker 3: twelve years of your life, like you know, be bold
Speaker 3: and be curious and and I.
Speaker 2: Think that.
Speaker 3: Your your hobbies and your athleticism and just like like
Speaker 3: mental traits are praised more and encouraged more. And then
Speaker 3: you hit that switch and a lot of it turns
Speaker 3: into well, like how are you dressing? Like?
Speaker 2: What's your hair?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What are are you?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What is your body like?
Speaker 3: It turns a lot more into your physical appearance being
Speaker 3: valued more so than anything mentally, and it kind of,
Speaker 3: I think flips back a bit, but especially when you
Speaker 3: hit adolescents and that happens, it's just it really does
Speaker 3: feel like this death of yourself. And I think that's
Speaker 3: what Silent Hill does. And it's fucking wild that like
Speaker 3: a fifty year old man nailed it a good job.
Speaker 3: I mean joke, like, sorry, I feel like I'm tanded,
Speaker 3: but like I joke with my friend, she's like a
Speaker 3: huge horror movie fan, and she loves Robert Eggers. He's
Speaker 3: the guy who does like the Witch and knows Faratu,
Speaker 3: and like I've seen those movies with her, and each
Speaker 3: time I love those movies too, and each time we leave,
Speaker 3: you know, she's just like it's fucked up that that
Speaker 3: guy gets women so well, like that he manages to
Speaker 3: create these like very cathartic like little bit women's rage,
Speaker 3: but like like allowing women to be kind of more
Speaker 3: messy and like really in touch with their emotions and
Speaker 3: just do things and be kind of powerful and weird
Speaker 3: and dark. And like that's how this game made me feel.
Speaker 3: I was like, how is this guy just like get it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well to the point that you mentioned there where
Speaker 4: it's like you are not yourself and you are kind
Speaker 4: of like it's all about what you have to offer.
Speaker 4: I think that's a really good seguae to talk about
Speaker 4: the friend group in particular jealousy, because yeah, you, I
Speaker 4: guess like you kind of become a threat to everyone
Speaker 4: else as you grow up and there are and like
Speaker 4: when I remember growing up as a teenage girl being
Speaker 4: in an all girls like class, I was very lucky
Speaker 4: to have very deep friendships that I formed there. But
Speaker 4: the way that girls talk about each other can be
Speaker 4: so so intense.
Speaker 1: And this game does. The one thing that, again is
Speaker 1: context that sometimes I don't always have or didn't have
Speaker 1: as a teenager. My time as a teenager, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's probably different. I was like, really quick, I
Speaker 1: just want to say I don't like coming of age
Speaker 1: stories because I never have ever fit in with a
Speaker 1: coming of age story. I just have never related to.
Speaker 1: Like That's why I've alway struggle with persona games. I
Speaker 1: just in most cases I do not relate to these teenagers.
Speaker 1: But this game, this representation of a teenager, felt way
Speaker 1: more grounded and way more something I could reflect on
Speaker 1: than any other piece of media that I could watch
Speaker 1: in the in the teenage realm but I wanted. But
Speaker 1: with that context, the one thing that kind of like
Speaker 1: smacked me upside the face of it was when you're
Speaker 1: in the school and you're finding the notes, Yes, and
Speaker 1: it's like the sort of establishment that this is. This
Speaker 1: is how girls talk about each other, This is how
Speaker 1: girls expressed, you know, we're able to they did. They
Speaker 1: weren't physical, they weren't like trying to like beat each
Speaker 1: other up or I'm not sure if some were, but
Speaker 1: I'm like the idea of how men broach jealousy with
Speaker 1: one another versus how women do it, which in this
Speaker 1: case is very passive, aggressive, very maniacal to leave these
Speaker 1: little folded up notes and then you find them you
Speaker 1: just have.
Speaker 4: To assume, well, yeah, and so so in my second
Speaker 4: play through, when I'm going through in the kind of
Speaker 4: other world where it's like you'd have one piece of
Speaker 4: the diary and then you'd flick the switch and there
Speaker 4: would be the other real thoughts of the diary, and
Speaker 4: they would just be so violent and like everything was
Speaker 4: just brewing under the surface, and they would just be
Speaker 4: so so horrible in the way that we talk about
Speaker 4: each other, and especially in Oh, She's always so perfect,
Speaker 4: she always looks she always is so good looking, and
Speaker 4: she's a cockroach, like all this kind of stuff, because yeah,
Speaker 4: you're right, that's typically how girls would argue and fight
Speaker 4: when I was growing up. Like you would not get physical.
Speaker 4: You would just hear a rumor, or you would have
Speaker 4: someone call you something or hear that you'd been called something.
Speaker 4: And yeah, when it comes to and I was gonna say,
Speaker 4: Rinco pushing her down the stairs, or if she did
Speaker 4: push down the stairs. I feel like Kinnoko is such
Speaker 4: an unreliable narrator, particularly on that second play through the
Speaker 4: face that rink how has after that, and just the
Speaker 4: way she says you felt on the stairs clumsy. You know,
Speaker 4: it's like that's such a absolutely nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 4: I feel like I've known that girl.
Speaker 3: Oh I was gonna say, like the subtlety is so
Speaker 3: spot on, because like that's the thing, is like, and
Speaker 3: it really does fuck with your brain, like when you're
Speaker 3: that age too, because you just kind of like that.
Speaker 3: I think that's when you start to get that complex
Speaker 3: of does this person really like me?
Speaker 2: Or do they not? With your friends, you know.
Speaker 3: And I hate to kind of be like it's so
Speaker 3: funny because at first, when I first started playing the game,
Speaker 3: for the first little bit, I was like, oh, is
Speaker 3: he Necho gonna be like one of those characters Like
Speaker 3: I just like guy friends because they're less drama because
Speaker 3: I always I hate I hate girls like that.
Speaker 2: I hate girls like that so much, you know.
Speaker 3: I But it is interesting though, because like when I
Speaker 3: grew up, I feel like now I have mostly women
Speaker 3: friends and you know, some guy friends, but it's like
Speaker 3: growing up, I think I definitely did probably have more
Speaker 3: guy friends, and I went through the experience of like
Speaker 3: it not being really a big deal, you know, And
Speaker 3: of course like there was some that I had like
Speaker 3: crushes on or whatever, but it's like it wasn't really
Speaker 3: a big deal until adolescence.
Speaker 2: And I remember having a friend.
Speaker 3: Who like basically was rinko who didn't really like that
Speaker 3: I talked to like this this guy friend of mine
Speaker 3: as much as I did, and who was very interested
Speaker 3: in him and would just like make the kind of
Speaker 3: comments of like, well, like I guess it's fine because
Speaker 3: like he doesn't really see you in that way, you know,
Speaker 3: Like I know for a fact that like you know,
Speaker 3: like you guys are really really close, but it's like
Speaker 3: probably like a brother sister type thing, like doesn't see
Speaker 3: you in that way.
Speaker 2: It doesn't couldn't see you in that.
Speaker 3: Way, or you know, well, you're just like very tomboyish.
Speaker 3: He's somebody that they can like play video games with
Speaker 3: because and like they feel relaxed with you because like
Speaker 3: you're not.
Speaker 2: You're not like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And so it's like I dealt with kind of like
Speaker 3: my own situation and where you kind of feel like
Speaker 3: a bit ostracized because you aren't just one of the
Speaker 3: guys you never will be. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, you don't have that sense of community,
Speaker 3: and it starts to like I said, starts to mess
Speaker 3: with your brain, and so like it's cool that in
Speaker 3: this psychological horror game it addresses the fact that that
Speaker 3: shit messes with your brain and gives you a complex
Speaker 3: and makes you so.
Speaker 2: Unsure of like how do I presume? I don't know?
Speaker 3: And I guess that's like, well, that's one big thing, right,
Speaker 3: It's like this whole element of choice. Just I was
Speaker 3: talking to a friend about this game and I joked,
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's it's kind of like the video game
Speaker 3: version of like Sylvia Plath's like fin tree thing, right.
Speaker 2: Like there's so many options.
Speaker 3: And I did a thing where even before I got
Speaker 3: married or before I had a kid, like you do
Speaker 3: the spiral of like am I doing this because I
Speaker 3: want to? Or because it's like the next step and
Speaker 3: what society deems is like the good thing to do?
Speaker 3: Am I do? I? Am I sure that I want
Speaker 3: to do this. I envision myself like in one life
Speaker 3: getting away and like living in a city and being
Speaker 3: you know, and having that whole life, and there's one
Speaker 3: that's over here, and I feel like that's part of
Speaker 3: what Hinico is going through is it's like I don't
Speaker 3: want to get married. I don't want to lose this innocence,
Speaker 3: but at the same time, I do kind of want
Speaker 3: to get married. I do kind of want that companionship,
Speaker 3: like that sounds kind of nice, and I could love somebody,
Speaker 3: But at the same time, what if I'm being brainwashed
Speaker 3: into just thinking that I need to love somebody and
Speaker 3: that I want this And it's like that spiral that
Speaker 3: we all, I think, go through and it's depicted so well.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I think it is so important how
Speaker 1: this game has handled multiple playthroughs and multiple endings, because
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what it touches on, is that
Speaker 1: you don't get the full story from the first play through,
Speaker 1: but you also don't entirely know what's going on in
Speaker 1: her head. You don't even really know like like the
Speaker 1: extent of her battles with herself until you're three playthroughs,
Speaker 1: and you really don't get like the full grasp of
Speaker 1: every single problem she's facing and even having a solution
Speaker 1: to those problems. It's very messy, but in like the
Speaker 1: way that it feels like it should be the way that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like being part of yourself.
Speaker 4: Is a traitor? Yeah, are you a traitor because you
Speaker 4: are leaving your friends behind? Like you are killing your
Speaker 4: friends to move on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Are you a traitor because you're leaving your childhood behind,
Speaker 4: your family behind? Are you a traitor because you are
Speaker 4: not doing what you believe you should do? You are
Speaker 4: like bowing down to what other people think should do.
Speaker 4: And so I Yeah, the traitor thing was the thing
Speaker 4: that always like stuck out with me, and every time
Speaker 4: I heard it it kind of took on a different meaning.
Speaker 1: I've been trying. I wanted to talk about this, but
Speaker 1: we keep getting off topic. But I think this is
Speaker 1: the time to do it, and I do want We've
Speaker 1: talked a lot about the like the ideas in which
Speaker 1: you should be or how you should be viewed, and
Speaker 1: obviously there's there's a lot of metaphor and everything, even
Speaker 1: like all the way down to the menstrual thing is
Speaker 1: like I didn't even think about the flowers. It was
Speaker 1: when you said I was like, oh, duh. Clearly I
Speaker 1: have never had a period, but I, uh, the It's
Speaker 1: the one thing I really wanted to get both your
Speaker 1: takes on was the use of medication, Like the idea
Speaker 1: of like you, this thing is just given to the
Speaker 1: player during the first playthrough, and it is so normalized. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as just an item you take. You just that's what
Speaker 1: you're giving. This is your health. This helps your health,
Speaker 1: this helps you, it's your sanity, and that's it. And
Speaker 1: as a player, you're just like like any other game,
Speaker 1: you're just.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's just the healing, healing.
Speaker 1: Item you're you're gathering up. You're not really even thinking
Speaker 1: about it until the very end of the game when
Speaker 1: that item is completely recontextualized. Uh. And then poor Lucy play.
Speaker 4: I'm an idiot and I've did my second play through and.
Speaker 2: I'm taking him.
Speaker 1: But I did kind of the I messaged just this,
Speaker 1: but at first I was kind of like, to be
Speaker 1: completely transparent, I don't take medication for I take medication
Speaker 1: for other health reasons, but not for psychological or any
Speaker 1: chemical kind of imbalanced reasons like that. So it was
Speaker 1: hard for me to be like, is this a topic
Speaker 1: that people will be okay with? Because I know everyone
Speaker 1: has their own kind of viewpoint on this, and this
Speaker 1: game at first made me sort of feel like her
Speaker 1: problems are just being masked or solved quote unquote by
Speaker 1: taking medication. But it wasn't until I really like thought
Speaker 1: about I was like, no, no, no, no no. The point
Speaker 1: I eventually took away is it's the it's the religious
Speaker 1: thing you brought up with Carrie, where it's just you
Speaker 1: are taking it's it's it's as if it can just
Speaker 1: solve nineteen sixties Japan problems. Just take this medication. Just pray,
Speaker 1: just pray, just pray, and it'll all be better. It'll
Speaker 1: all be better. But anyways, I just want to to
Speaker 1: open that up, and because always thought that was a
Speaker 1: very intense topic that I don't know if I've seen
Speaker 1: breached as eloquently or as maybe even controversially as Salen
Speaker 1: hill f kind of does in that first playthrough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's it's interesting and it's something that
Speaker 3: gave me pause just because like I did take medication.
Speaker 2: You know, I've I've been taking it for years and
Speaker 2: years and years and years, and.
Speaker 3: It helps me a lot, you know, Like, of course
Speaker 3: you go through stuff that doesn't work, but you know,
Speaker 3: you get to the end and like it helps me
Speaker 3: a lot, and I love the fact that I found
Speaker 3: something that works. But at the same time, I also
Speaker 3: am like a like I definitely believe in the fact
Speaker 3: that like medicine is yeah, you know what they say,
Speaker 3: like why if you want to lose weight or if
Speaker 3: you want to maintain or whatever. It's like diet is
Speaker 3: eighty percent and exercises twenty percent. And I do think
Speaker 3: that like like medication and therapy work the same way.
Speaker 3: It's like medication is maybe the twenty percent of that
Speaker 3: or maybe maybe it's more in that case, like a
Speaker 3: thirty percent, But like all of the medication in the
Speaker 3: world won't help you if like you don't have a
Speaker 3: stable life at home, if you if you don't have
Speaker 3: food or like the resources that you need, if you
Speaker 3: don't have shelter, if you don't have anyone that you
Speaker 3: can talk to, if you don't have like a stable
Speaker 3: life at school, you know what I mean, Like, if
Speaker 3: you don't have stability and protection and feel safe in
Speaker 3: your own life, that's not gonna help you, you know.
Speaker 3: And it's maybe to the slightest degree, right, but at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you're still going to have
Speaker 3: those issues.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, it's not going to solve societal problems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and especially like in the case of this right,
Speaker 3: like it's not going to solve the patriarchy, Like you know,
Speaker 3: it's not and you know, back in the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 3: and like I'm I don't I don't know Japan's history,
Speaker 3: Like I can't say this for sure, but it's like,
Speaker 3: at least in US history at that point in the US,
Speaker 3: they weren't even running medical trials for medicine on women
Speaker 3: or people of color. It was strictly like white men
Speaker 3: who were included in these trials. And it kind of
Speaker 3: also like adds a little bit to the shoe thing
Speaker 3: where it's like he doesn't really understand what he's messing
Speaker 3: with when he just makes this for her to like
Speaker 3: be like here, feel better.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's I think.
Speaker 3: Like I said, it ties in into not really understanding
Speaker 3: the medicine and not really understanding women and not necessarily
Speaker 3: caring to and that being the larger issue, and it
Speaker 3: approaches it and it's it's kind of like a dangerous
Speaker 3: thing to approach a little bit, you know, And.
Speaker 1: I mean even even even even trying to bring it up.
Speaker 1: I want to be like very sensitive of it because yeah,
Speaker 1: just seeing those like I don't know how I'm interpreting
Speaker 1: this right now, Like I'm not really sure what this game.
Speaker 1: On a first play through, I was not entirely sure
Speaker 1: where the game was trying to tell me. And that's
Speaker 1: not that's not a criticism of the game. It was
Speaker 1: just me being like, this just feels like something I
Speaker 1: may not be equipped to really be able to talk about,
Speaker 1: which is why I was like, hey, just did you
Speaker 1: feel about that? I'm kind of just to gauge and
Speaker 1: see maybe help me out a bit.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean because is it is it a
Speaker 4: commentary on antidepressants and ant anxiety or is it a
Speaker 4: commentary on masking everything else with other kinds of other
Speaker 4: kind of substance abuse, you know. And then you have
Speaker 4: the one situation, which in first play through is when
Speaker 4: she just takes a bunch and then.
Speaker 1: Beats the boss.
Speaker 4: Beats the boss, goes to a wedding and kills everyone
Speaker 4: and kills everyone there.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting too because throughout the game, like one
Speaker 3: of the first like optional areas that you can go
Speaker 3: to when the map opens up a teeny bit and
Speaker 3: like I don't like the second chapter I guess loosely,
Speaker 3: or third it's before you go to Rinko's house, and
Speaker 3: so like the corn fields are open or I guess
Speaker 3: the rice patties.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: I don't remember what they are. But the fields are open,
Speaker 3: and you can go to that doctor's house, and.
Speaker 1: That house is a lot feel like I have not
Speaker 1: entirely unpacked what the hell is happening in that scene?
Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, Jess, I won't interrupt.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you're totally right, though, I still don't
Speaker 3: understand the eyeballs.
Speaker 4: It's the eyeballs. Did I get this?
Speaker 1: Did you not?
Speaker 4: Did you go to the doctor's house, Yeah, right next
Speaker 4: to the rice field before I went to uh Ko's.
Speaker 1: Did you open the little box inside of his office?
Speaker 4: No, no, because when I went it was locked, so
Speaker 4: you could still open it.
Speaker 1: There's a box you can open. There's a key in
Speaker 1: that house.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, I missed that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, see I like that. I like that you saw.
Speaker 1: But anyways, when you when you unlock it, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like a medical's box and the very top of
Speaker 1: it is just filled with human eyeballs. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: of course upstairs is the woman, whereas the mannequin body
Speaker 1: that's just kind of chilling in this room. And it's
Speaker 1: just like there's a lot there's like four narratives I
Speaker 1: feel like that are happening alongside this game. There's like
Speaker 1: the doctor's house. There's also the shack in the woods.
Speaker 1: Did you find that.
Speaker 4: Jess oh, the sanctuary.
Speaker 1: Well with all the with all the dead bodies.
Speaker 4: So in the second place I found the note where
Speaker 4: it was like I need yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's all these other like five different narratives
Speaker 1: that are happening alongside of where you're like what is this?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 4: This town is vice principle just like Godden Yep, he
Speaker 4: just likes gardening.
Speaker 1: And that's of course where you lost keys. Yeah where was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I didn't even think about because I was
Speaker 3: going to say, like there's this back and forth with
Speaker 3: like the doctors and some of the journals you find,
Speaker 3: and then people who live in the town who are
Speaker 3: like very big on natural medicine, like Shoes family, they
Speaker 3: run the apothecary, and so like.
Speaker 2: There's an interesting.
Speaker 3: Conversation about like kind of the meeting and this is
Speaker 3: something whenever I interviewed the creators like a couple of
Speaker 3: months ago, they said they chose the nineteen sixties because,
Speaker 3: at least in Japan, it.
Speaker 2: Felt like the era that.
Speaker 3: Was closest to like the Japan of the of the past,
Speaker 3: where it was like there was more focus on tradition
Speaker 3: and mythology and and religion and tradition. And now Japan,
Speaker 3: of course like still has that, but it's there's it's
Speaker 3: a lot more modern, and it's a lot more scientific,
Speaker 3: and I think that that was like where they wanted
Speaker 3: to explore, is like the meeting point of like the
Speaker 3: traditional and like the new and scientific, and you can
Speaker 3: kind of see that it's not like the predominant conversation,
Speaker 3: but similar to how like Kinko is going through this
Speaker 3: like awkward age transformation, like kind of the country is too,
Speaker 3: and like that's reflected even in like what the women
Speaker 3: character wants.
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, even the fact that the shrines are
Speaker 4: falling into disrepair and people are ignoring them. But then
Speaker 4: you have this shiny candy store in the middle of
Speaker 4: town that felt so at odds with everything else that
Speaker 4: was so traditional. As you're walking around and then there
Speaker 4: are these bright colors that just looked so out of place.
Speaker 1: All the shrines are just smashed into small little corners
Speaker 1: and like little alleyways, and all that the the I
Speaker 1: want to go. I want to move a little bit
Speaker 1: into the actual endings or ending, should we say. I'm
Speaker 1: going to do my best to try not spoiler spoil
Speaker 1: other Silent Hell games for you, Lucy by saying this.
Speaker 4: Thank you, because I really do you want to play too.
Speaker 1: But I said this the jests and basically if you
Speaker 1: were if you're at all familiar with the sound Hill games,
Speaker 1: they all have like a ton of endings, right, and
Speaker 1: in most cases the first ending is never really the thing,
Speaker 1: but most you can basically get down to the bottom
Speaker 1: of what happened in those games. There is always there's
Speaker 1: usually always like this thing happened in Silent Hill too,
Speaker 1: and I know it happened because of this ending. This
Speaker 1: is the first sound Hill game where I'm not actually
Speaker 1: convinced the game had an ending at all, because every
Speaker 1: ending feels like its own scenario that could have happened.
Speaker 1: That could be the case, but none of them are
Speaker 1: definitive tree it's the victory, and of course the final
Speaker 1: ending does feel like the good ending, but even then
Speaker 1: it still feels like a fairy tale wonderland. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: basically to explain, I'm sure, so ending one ending one
Speaker 1: she you tell me what she did.
Speaker 4: Becomes the wolf girl fox is.
Speaker 1: So the ending of the first one is she killed
Speaker 1: people at her wedding.
Speaker 4: She kills people at her wedding, she like takes a
Speaker 4: bunch of those drugs, and.
Speaker 1: Then it establishes she's not sixteen at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's actually twenty and it's her wedding and she.
Speaker 1: Killed them with a knife.
Speaker 4: Kills them with a knife. And then so that's like
Speaker 4: recontentionalizing the you know, her father attacks her with the knife.
Speaker 4: Did that actually happen?
Speaker 3: And it's like the world that she's in, it's almost
Speaker 3: kind of like she's just imagining it, Like it's just psychosis.
Speaker 3: So it's not like there's any sort of flashback type thing.
Speaker 3: It's like literally she's inhabiting this world. But like and
Speaker 3: at towards the end, it's like you start hearing like
Speaker 3: people being like, wholl what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2: What's wrong with you?
Speaker 3: Is you're like running through the town because it's kind
Speaker 3: of breaking, And then yeah, you see police lights. You
Speaker 3: hear that a woman was getting married today and it's
Speaker 3: just like mass murdering her friends and family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's trapped in this version of herself, which
Speaker 1: is probably what you were referring to earlier, like the
Speaker 1: last point in which she was before turning into adulthood.
Speaker 1: So she's trapped in the sixteen year old body and
Speaker 1: then she kills all friends.
Speaker 3: Well, it just kind of shows you too, Like it
Speaker 3: ties into that medicine thing we talked about right where
Speaker 3: it's like, this is the Hinoko who was just like
Speaker 3: abusing medication for years and years and years and was
Speaker 3: getting married despite not wanting to, and was following all
Speaker 3: of these rules despite not wanting to, had completely lost
Speaker 3: her freedom and like just snapped, you know, like she
Speaker 3: finally just like lost it because she repressed so much
Speaker 3: of herself that she just didn't feel like she just
Speaker 3: associated and just kind of it's kind of Lucy kind
Speaker 3: of almost nailed it when she said what she thought
Speaker 3: was going on, Like basically like she was putting up
Speaker 3: with so much for so long until she just couldn't
Speaker 3: and she had to invent you know.
Speaker 2: Some other person, some other reality.
Speaker 1: To make and then we had the second or at
Speaker 1: least the second ending. You can unlock them in two
Speaker 1: different orders. For this one, I'll do the Fox's wedding,
Speaker 1: which is the one I got, which I think is
Speaker 1: the third ending. I got the second ending you got Jess,
Speaker 1: And in order to do this, you don't take red capsules.
Speaker 4: Don't take them.
Speaker 1: So in the Fox's Wedding, I would say, this is
Speaker 1: where she still kind of Shoe steps in with the
Speaker 1: baseball bet yes, and it's like you're marrying the wrong
Speaker 1: guy for the wrong reasons. But in this ending, she
Speaker 1: kind of seems acceptant of her fate, which is why
Speaker 1: she's like the full Fox basically like Fox arm Fox
Speaker 1: mask and defends Fox mask Man and then fights Shoe,
Speaker 1: which I think is an amazing fight. So and at
Speaker 1: the end of that they have their fist bump moment.
Speaker 4: They when talk about her and she even.
Speaker 1: Said trade her off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they she she was like, look, I know her,
Speaker 4: you know I won't es best for her if you
Speaker 4: hurt her. I'll do this with this Fox Basket is like, no,
Speaker 4: don't you know I've fought for her love and I'm
Speaker 4: gonna make it whatever. And they're having this little bro moment,
Speaker 4: and she's standing behind both of them, crucially not at
Speaker 4: the same level. She she says, don't treat me like
Speaker 4: an object.
Speaker 1: They basically ignore and they're ignoring it. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: and then that ends with the great face her face
Speaker 1: is cut off and it's like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be like my mother, and then the thing is like, amazing.
Speaker 1: So that's the other ending. That's the one you that's
Speaker 1: the second one you got, right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the second one I got. And it's like
Speaker 3: at the first it's so funny because like that one
Speaker 3: ends kind of in a nice way, and then like
Speaker 3: the rest of the credits roll and then you get
Speaker 3: that scene and at first I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I feel bad now because that
Speaker 3: wasn't that wasn't good.
Speaker 4: But it's the same.
Speaker 3: As someone who has had a very complicated relationship with
Speaker 3: her mother and who took all of those fears and
Speaker 3: a lot of baggage into her relationships and to even
Speaker 3: like being a mom and stuff. I'm like, I kind
Speaker 3: of don't hate it because realistically, like that fear is
Speaker 3: always kind of there, and it's like you can kind
Speaker 3: of neatly wrap the experience in a bow and say,
Speaker 3: like she's happy it all worked out, but like that
Speaker 3: stuff sticks with you, like she probably does have that
Speaker 3: fear and we will have that fear for the rest of
Speaker 3: her life, you know, like she had a mom who
Speaker 3: didn't stick up to her and like kind of failed
Speaker 3: her as a parent, and a dad was abusive and
Speaker 3: an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: And then uh, we have a third ending where she
Speaker 1: fights the fox and runs away with shoe, which has
Speaker 1: the weirdest post credit scene, which was where it has
Speaker 1: a radio message that like people are being.
Speaker 4: Oh evacuated because of a poison gases.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I was informed is apparently a theme that
Speaker 1: Right has in his other games because of the history
Speaker 1: Japan has had with chemical spills and like things that
Speaker 1: have been caused basically by the government poisoning water and
Speaker 1: doing nothing about it. So that has like the weirdest like.
Speaker 4: They get away, but then there's this other thing about
Speaker 4: that dream induced by poison gas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that also is a great I also love the
Speaker 1: part in that ending when she was like you look
Speaker 1: ridiculous in that and she's like, well you like like
Speaker 1: look at you, You're wearing a tie. But of course
Speaker 1: they're just sixteen year olds in the vision. So and
Speaker 1: then again is that the real one? Is that what happened?
Speaker 4: Or is it number four?
Speaker 2: I think like that.
Speaker 3: I say that ending I think is like the most grounded,
Speaker 3: But I think that the fourth ending is my favorite.
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. I thought the shoe one was
Speaker 1: the fairy tale ending, and then the fourth one happened.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't fucking know, because in that ending,
Speaker 1: everyone kind of gets what they want.
Speaker 4: Like she, I mean, no one's in the town.
Speaker 1: And she's just with herself, still in her sixteen year
Speaker 1: old self, but with her other self.
Speaker 4: She's accepting, you know, her childhood, the fact that she's
Speaker 4: becoming an adult and she doesn't have to deal with
Speaker 4: anyone else's shit, and no one else is in that
Speaker 4: down It's.
Speaker 1: Like maybe we'll maybe one day we'll we'll get back
Speaker 1: together and make her own choice to get married. Do
Speaker 1: wudn't believe it. I was having candy with kids, I
Speaker 1: was experiencing childhood, and it was one of those things
Speaker 1: where I was like, this is the good ending. But
Speaker 1: then I kind of I don't know what the fuck
Speaker 1: happened or what really happened, which is great, which is
Speaker 1: exactly what I want. So, yeah, I'm gonna put it
Speaker 1: to you, jess what do you think happened?
Speaker 2: What do I think? See?
Speaker 3: I think that the point though, is that any one
Speaker 3: of them could, you know, And it's like, ultimately we're
Speaker 3: making these choices as players, and obviously like Hinoko is
Speaker 3: not a real person, right, But I think that at
Speaker 3: the same time, like there's almost kind of like this
Speaker 3: maybe meta narrative there of like well, like these are
Speaker 3: all the things that could happen, and maybe there's like
Speaker 3: a million other things that could happen too, and ultimately,
Speaker 3: like she's gonna write her own fate, you know, and
Speaker 3: it's just kind of like a glimpse at these possibilities.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I like that is because they're also they're all kind
Speaker 4: of a little messy in their own way. There is
Speaker 4: no perfect good outcome, and I think that is very
Speaker 4: true to life, like you never are going to get
Speaker 4: everything that you want. So I like Jessic's interpretation where
Speaker 4: these are just.
Speaker 1: Could have Yes, Yeah, that's how I took it. It
Speaker 1: was just the interpretation of what could happen to in
Speaker 1: any one case scenario of a person. Just it's the
Speaker 1: thing that I think this makes this game so good,
Speaker 1: even more so than other Soundhill games, is that it
Speaker 1: is a just sort of like it's not like it's
Speaker 1: a psychological horror where this you can explain things and
Speaker 1: there's deep lore and explanations for X, Y, and Z.
Speaker 1: Although they did connect this game to the other games,
Speaker 1: which I'm a little whatever about because I'm not a
Speaker 1: lower person. But it is the case in which it's
Speaker 1: not really anything happened. It's just like, this is the
Speaker 1: horror kind of spiral in which a person can go
Speaker 1: through when grappling with versions of themselves, expectations upon themselves,
Speaker 1: expectations of others, and what that means, how it affects
Speaker 1: you in your life and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: So, oh, you know what we didn't talk about what
Speaker 4: the other missing girl.
Speaker 1: Oh that I kind of was referring to that with
Speaker 1: the four other plot lines.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because that was one that I was like
Speaker 4: every time I found a note about her or the
Speaker 4: ripped thing on the noticeboard.
Speaker 1: That is one that I'm looking forward to the Internet solving. Right,
Speaker 1: There's a.
Speaker 3: Few things that are like that, where like, even when
Speaker 3: I was playing it, and I was like very intentionally
Speaker 3: like trying to like dig in, right, So I'm doing
Speaker 3: this review and I even wrote and I kind of
Speaker 3: agree with you, Kurt, like I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't one of those.
Speaker 3: People was like, how are they going to tie it
Speaker 3: to the other games? This isn't a real Silent Hill
Speaker 3: because I think that that's silly.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad that they did it in such a subtle way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did it subtle enough where it's like that's what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a very cause basically, I mean like
Speaker 3: the way that it's really really tied together is like
Speaker 3: the same type of flower that's used in the other
Speaker 3: Silent Hill games that has psychotic properties is the same
Speaker 3: flower that's growing your shoes house that.
Speaker 2: He uses to make her medicine.
Speaker 3: So like there's that tie of of like there being used,
Speaker 3: but I don't know, there's there's like just so many
Speaker 3: things where I'm like, I think I've grasped this. I
Speaker 3: think that I know what's going on, but even like
Speaker 3: the stuff with the doctor and just like I'm not
Speaker 3: entirely sure what the takeaway is here, like what the
Speaker 3: main story is, and so I am very interested to
Speaker 3: see what the internet kind of deduces.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that that's kind of what I figured.
Speaker 1: The post credits scene where they were talking about the
Speaker 1: poison gas was alluring to that. It's like this town
Speaker 1: just has problems.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like type thing, but it was just stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stuff is going on. The one kind of major
Speaker 1: thing I want to end this, or at least kind
Speaker 1: of move towards, is I'm just glad to play a
Speaker 1: new sound Hill game that focuses on Silent Hill being
Speaker 1: a state of mind rather than a place with a
Speaker 1: history and a thing, and the fact that like this
Speaker 1: is It's why I think I controversially think sold Hill
Speaker 1: four is one of the better sound Hill games, but
Speaker 1: that's because it removes It's like there's still references to
Speaker 1: Silent Hill, but that game focuses on this man being
Speaker 1: trapped in a place that clearly is not real or
Speaker 1: a place that is deeper in meaning and doesn't actually
Speaker 1: connect to some lore. And why I've never really been
Speaker 1: a fan of one or three. I know you don't
Speaker 1: know anything about this, but is because they tried to.
Speaker 1: There's like cults and witches and all of these things.
Speaker 1: And I've always thought sold Hill two is one of
Speaker 1: the better ones because it's like it really is. Just man,
Speaker 1: that's it. So I I just think it's so cool
Speaker 1: that and brave in a way that Konami's like, all right,
Speaker 1: we're on the tail end of the Silent Hill two
Speaker 1: remake being a success, being well received after what felt
Speaker 1: like was an impossible feat, and now they have a
Speaker 1: game that is completely They chose to be like, we're
Speaker 1: not going to remake another one, We're going to make
Speaker 1: a new one, and they knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 1: Neo Birds and yeah, this game. That's the one thing
Speaker 1: that I'm interested in you, Lucy, because this is your
Speaker 1: first Soundhill game, and I do not know how you're
Speaker 1: gonna fare going into other ones because they're so darkly different.
Speaker 4: That's the thing that I'm excited about. I want to
Speaker 4: experience Silent Hill too. I think that will be my
Speaker 4: next one. I love horror, and yeah, for some reason,
Speaker 4: Silent Hill has always been a spot that I've just
Speaker 4: never explored.
Speaker 1: Everyone stereotype me. Yeah, everyone, I just thought I was
Speaker 1: a Soulent Hill person.
Speaker 4: I thought you were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you guess what You're all wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I.
Speaker 2: Literally remember when I saw two.
Speaker 3: I did like the preview event for that, and I
Speaker 3: don't know if I like wrote it my preview and
Speaker 3: I sent it your way or something Kurt, and I
Speaker 3: was just like, what do you think is like a
Speaker 3: big silent Hill fan and You're like, well, I was.
Speaker 1: Like, buckle up, No, I think it was. It was
Speaker 1: actually during the sound Hill to Remake review process, MARKT.
Speaker 1: Delaney reviewed it, but I was handling the video coverage,
Speaker 1: and again it was one of those things where no
Speaker 1: one everyone just kind of looked at me, and I
Speaker 1: was like, it's fine, I'm okay with it. Because I
Speaker 1: often say resident or I'm sorry, I often say Survival
Speaker 1: Horror is my beat, Like that is the thing that
Speaker 1: like I'm comfortable being like having a touching point for
Speaker 1: what I know a lot about. So it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 1: But I do remember messaging Jess because I think Jesse
Speaker 1: were just like, well, how do you think? Like how
Speaker 1: is it? Like I hear it's really good, and I
Speaker 1: was like that's when I was like, well, if this
Speaker 1: means anything as someone who is not a fan of
Speaker 1: this original game, who has a lot of problems with it,
Speaker 1: this is fucking awesome. I was like, this is great.
Speaker 1: And the thing that the sc that Sunhill f does.
Speaker 1: That I think makes the franchise work for me today
Speaker 1: is that you technology today allows subtlety to breathe, like
Speaker 1: actual face animations, actual acting, and the way people can
Speaker 1: say something cryptic that doesn't make any sense but you
Speaker 1: can read you can pick up on so much more
Speaker 1: nuanced because of the technology, because of graphics and the
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's a scene with Sho, like right
Speaker 1: when you meet him for the first time, where he
Speaker 1: gives you the red thing and like he does a
Speaker 1: little like shrug and his eyes twitch a certain way,
Speaker 1: and it felt like something. It felt so much more
Speaker 1: than a sentence he could have said, And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And Silent Heal two remake is all that.
Speaker 1: It's just movements and expressions on things that sentences that
Speaker 1: were bullshit lines to me in the first game have
Speaker 1: completely different meaning in this game to me because of
Speaker 1: the way the actors express it. And that's where I
Speaker 1: was like, Silent Hill is at its best right now.
Speaker 1: And I never thought I would say it's because of technology,
Speaker 1: but I really do think so I.
Speaker 2: Was about to say the same thing.
Speaker 3: I am totally not like, go oh, Like, the graphics
Speaker 3: are so good, it's so high fidelity. Like I'm not
Speaker 3: that kind of person ninety nine percent of the time,
Speaker 3: but it is like I've seen, like more and more
Speaker 3: a lot of people who, like we would traditionally call
Speaker 3: voice actors right in video games, being like I would
Speaker 3: prefer it if I was just called an actor, because
Speaker 3: more often than not, like these people are doing motion capture,
Speaker 3: like they're acting, like they're doing full blown acting alongside
Speaker 3: other people just for video games.
Speaker 2: And so I've been trying to make.
Speaker 3: Like a really conscious effort to like just say actors
Speaker 3: instead of you know, trying like just constantly going to
Speaker 3: vo or, you know, voice actor. And yeah, like in
Speaker 3: this game, especially like it and also Silent Hill too,
Speaker 3: it like the performance is really you make it. I
Speaker 3: played the I played Silent Hill f both in English
Speaker 3: and in Japanese. I did Japanese first and then I
Speaker 3: did English, and like, both are fantastic. I think I
Speaker 3: probably prefer the Japanese. I feel like it's just.
Speaker 1: If she doesn't get nominated, if she doesn't get nominated
Speaker 1: for something, I'm gonna fucking I'm gonna flip out incredible.
Speaker 1: She does like sex different roles basically and like different
Speaker 1: layers of those roles in different situations. Like you didn't
Speaker 1: see the there's we have to wrap this up, but
Speaker 1: there's scenes that she does with her parents that are, oh,
Speaker 1: she like, you see a totally different side of her
Speaker 1: acting chops because you don't see her react, you don't
Speaker 1: see her talk to her parents, actually really talk to
Speaker 1: her parents, and it gives a totally different context. She's phenomenal, phenomenally,
Speaker 1: she's so good. She's not just screaming the whole time,
Speaker 1: but she's screaming. But her screaming is great. The screaming
Speaker 1: she does is good.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's impressive, screaming my throat.
Speaker 4: Listen listening to her screaming.
Speaker 1: Anyways, we have we're gonna bring this tow clothes. I
Speaker 1: feel like we didn't even we talked about we didn't
Speaker 1: even talk about playing the game. But the fox are good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that was God. That was the hardest part to
Speaker 1: keep secret is to be like, because when that fox
Speaker 1: arm showed up, not just the scene in which she
Speaker 1: gets it, but when it shows up, you start playing
Speaker 1: with it. I remember I stood up in my room
Speaker 1: being like, I don't fucking know what's happening. But this fucking.
Speaker 3: That series of events, it's so cool, like I I
Speaker 3: hate to be like the girl and it's so funny
Speaker 3: because like I remember somebody in Slack the second that
Speaker 3: yes RB rating went up for the game, they were
Speaker 3: just like ellameo, like what is happening? It's true because
Speaker 3: it literally says like woman burned alive in cage, like
Speaker 3: woman is branded cut off. It's it is just also good,
Speaker 3: like that whole like ritual sequence is so good. And
Speaker 3: then you get like the powers at the end, and
Speaker 3: it's so wild because it's like you spend so much
Speaker 3: of the game just feeling very weak and then you
Speaker 3: get to like the spirit world and you lose like
Speaker 3: the weapon durability aspect because you get like the little
Speaker 3: yea hell yeah so powerful and then you get that
Speaker 3: and you're just like, Okay, this place is this is
Speaker 3: my my place now?
Speaker 1: Yeah? The uh, the the one boss fight you two
Speaker 1: didn't get the fight, but I had my stand up
Speaker 1: and scream and freak out thing all over again. Was
Speaker 1: the final fourth boss fight where you the camera goes
Speaker 1: from that looks being fox arm and then the camera
Speaker 1: transitions into the water where you're just normal with your
Speaker 1: pipe and I was like, I stood up and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm playing god. I was freaking out. I
Speaker 1: was having so good And the fact that you fight.
Speaker 3: Her also, oh sorry, I feel like we could talk
Speaker 3: about this all the time. One other thing that I
Speaker 3: loved in the first ending when she starts to take
Speaker 3: the pills and then she's running out and the camera
Speaker 3: just zooms.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she gets smaller, but the pills are just
Speaker 1: getting larger and larger and larger.
Speaker 2: Like I love that disorienting shit.
Speaker 3: It reminds you of like in Metal Gear Solid two,
Speaker 3: right like towards the end, I feel like they do
Speaker 3: that too, where they just like pull out and it's
Speaker 3: just it's so weird how just like changing the camera
Speaker 3: that little bit completely alienates you and you feel like
Speaker 3: you're just so tense and I don't know, it's it
Speaker 3: was such a good touch.
Speaker 2: I loved that part.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I wanted to be able to
Speaker 1: use the spoiler cast to get into the nitty gritty
Speaker 1: of stuff that I just was like, Eire's just so
Speaker 1: much of it, so much of it, much, so much
Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, fox arm.
Speaker 4: Did you find her hand in a box?
Speaker 1: I did? I did find that and her face, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the face like when it cuts away and shows just
Speaker 1: the slab of her eye, like the part of her
Speaker 1: face just kind of laid down. I was like, oh hell, anyways.
Speaker 4: I didn't expect the ocami. I found a note where
Speaker 4: it's it's like, it's not a video call me, but
Speaker 4: it's like a Japanese myth, a legend where it's a
Speaker 4: Roachi with the heads.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I even put the okami
Speaker 1: thing together.
Speaker 4: That is the plot of a comedy. It's funny. Roachi
Speaker 4: is the beast with a bunch of heads, and Susanna
Speaker 4: is the the guy.
Speaker 1: The guy.
Speaker 4: You're the wolf god, the wolf god.
Speaker 1: I seriously cold talk about this game all day. So anyways,
Speaker 1: this has been great for me because I have been
Speaker 1: bottled up.
Speaker 4: You've been like that meme of the guy with the
Speaker 4: vein on his.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah no, that is like I it's
Speaker 1: been so painful, and I've been trying so hard. You've
Speaker 1: been very good to not say. Well, actually, my concern
Speaker 1: was just being excited. I was like felt like I
Speaker 1: was being too excited, but I was like it was
Speaker 1: just bottled up, Like.
Speaker 3: I just got jump, like it's like and it's nerve
Speaker 3: wracking to you. I feel like being like super super
Speaker 3: excited about a game, like before it's.
Speaker 1: Out, no one's playing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then I always like and it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Like I even told Kurt. Kurt was just like, just
Speaker 3: just like give it whatever review you think it deserves,
Speaker 3: like just write your thing. But I'm like, I always
Speaker 3: just get in my head because I'm like, what if
Speaker 3: I'm that person who like, this game is my ship.
Speaker 3: It is so good. I'm giving it a nine. It's fantastic,
Speaker 3: and everybody else comes out there's like sixes and gives
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, Like I stick to my gun.
Speaker 1: That's why I was like, I was like, look, you
Speaker 1: you just need to write the text and like everyone
Speaker 1: else will decide on what the text reads if you
Speaker 1: think not that we gave it a ton, but just
Speaker 1: saying if you think a game is a ten and
Speaker 1: you feel like that's too much, trust me. I went
Speaker 1: through this. You've given a couple of tens. I've only
Speaker 1: given I give it one ten. Yeah, and I and
Speaker 1: I regret there's one game I regret not giving a
Speaker 1: ten that will not disclose here. Oh yes, but It's
Speaker 1: one of those things where you know, I it's just
Speaker 1: sometimes you just like you gotta put it on paper,
Speaker 1: and if that's how you feel, then then the text
Speaker 1: will speak for that thing. Silent just like in Silent Hell.
Speaker 2: Well, that's like we like there.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like we claim over and
Speaker 3: over and over again that like there's no such thing
Speaker 3: as an objective review like to Chase that is just
Speaker 3: absolutely ridiculous. So you just kind of have to find
Speaker 3: people who like, maybe you like their reviews, they have
Speaker 3: an overlap in the games that they actually like with you,
Speaker 3: and just like stick with them. So ultimately, it's like
Speaker 3: this game worked for me. It worked so well. It
Speaker 3: hit so many themes and just had so much that
Speaker 3: resonated with me extremely deeply, and there's no world in
Speaker 3: which I would regret giving it a nine.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's so well done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually think I'm actually surprised as not as more.
Speaker 4: Am I divisive?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I actually thought was more divisive. I was like
Speaker 1: there was a point where I was like, Silent Hole
Speaker 1: fans are going to be like, what the fuck is this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: The subrodditts on Lockdown a.
Speaker 1: Bit okay, well, in terms of ratings and scores, it
Speaker 1: was not as divisive as I thought it was going
Speaker 1: to be. So when I actually saw it come out
Speaker 1: like consistently. I know there's a few reviews that leaked,
Speaker 1: a few reviews that went out early, and I know
Speaker 1: there's been some lower ones, but generally across the border
Speaker 1: is like, this is not as I didn't I was interested.
Speaker 1: People were going to be like, why did you call
Speaker 1: this a solid hill game?
Speaker 2: People are conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, thankfully, I'm not seeing it. I'm in my little
Speaker 1: world just enjoying things and it's great.
Speaker 3: I think it's not as intense as as it could be, though,
Speaker 3: Like there are a lot of people who jump to
Speaker 3: the same thing that I've been saying, where it's like,
Speaker 3: sure doesn't take place in Silent Hill, but you have this, this,
Speaker 3: this and this and this, and like that's more what
Speaker 3: Silent Hill is anyway, So I don't understand what the
Speaker 3: what the big deal is.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that the majority of folks that I've seen
Speaker 3: are on board with it, but there is of course
Speaker 3: some people who.
Speaker 1: That's okay, that's okay, that's all right. People get mad
Speaker 1: at me because you know, I'm not a silent Hill fan,
Speaker 1: but now after this, I'm silent pilled, very good. Good
Speaker 1: at the very beginning of this podcast, and hell because
Speaker 1: I was going to tie it into the medication part
Speaker 1: of the GOT for the very end. Anyways, Jessica Cau's, well,
Speaker 1: it was so good having you here. He was so
Speaker 1: good being able to chat about this. I've been wanting
Speaker 1: I deliberately, I haven't really You've obviously picked up on
Speaker 1: my feelings, but I deliberately wasn't telling you how I
Speaker 1: felt about the game. I think you just read it.
Speaker 1: I think you just like I was, like, I was
Speaker 1: waiting for that.
Speaker 4: What's up with's face? Is he smiling?
Speaker 3: I think you're, like I said, your enthusiasm when you
Speaker 3: genuinely do like something comes through and so like, I
Speaker 3: was like, even if he's not saying it, I think
Speaker 3: he likes it.
Speaker 1: I just because I'm very respectful of people who review games,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to have them hear what I
Speaker 1: think about said thing. But I was definitely when you
Speaker 1: said this thing was fucking sick, I was like, fucking yes,
Speaker 1: it was okay, Jessica as well, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: Lucy James. Yeah, the new the.
Speaker 4: New sound, the new Silent Hill, a fish, you're not
Speaker 4: on the block?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does F stand for? Will end it? There?
Speaker 4: Forte?
Speaker 1: You've already basically.
Speaker 4: No, but I think because she finally becomes loud about
Speaker 4: things like.
Speaker 3: Literally, Lucy, Yes, that's it my exact thought. I was
Speaker 3: just telling my sister.
Speaker 2: She was like, so what is it? Did they even clarifying?
Speaker 3: Like, I think it's Forte because it is the Forte
Speaker 3: symbol and like it juxtaposes Silent Hill and it's all
Speaker 3: about gaining your voice. And I'm like, I think it's
Speaker 3: got to be Forte.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I don't want to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean either that's the beauty of it. And
Speaker 1: I'm your host, who is very honored to be here.
Speaker 1: That's the first after Dark episode I've ever hosted. I know,
Speaker 1: isn't that wacky dacky? I know, skibbity bop show up up?
Speaker 1: Look at me growing up? F F four.
Speaker 2: Are you hurt?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah no, I've already chopped his face off and
Speaker 1: stepped on it, did you miss? Yeah? My fox mouth's
Speaker 1: right over there, bam there it is alright everyone, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you so much for listening all of
Speaker 1: us chit chat away. I'm gonna go continue screaming inside
Speaker 1: because I could probably keep talking about this game for
Speaker 1: a while. Okay, so long, folks. Bye b