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I 26 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:49.840 never win? 27 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:51.359 And tell well, there you have it. 28 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.200 You could get lucky anywhere playing at Lucky landslots dot 29 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:55.840 com play for free right now? 30 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:57.000 Are you feeling lucky? 31 00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:57.799 No, we're just necessary. 32 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:59.280 Voya, we're gon be my long eighteen plus terms and 33 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.799 conditions plus you will loop. 34 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.439 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 35 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.560 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 36 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:25.920 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 37 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.640 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 38 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:34.280 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 39 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.120 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 40 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:50.400 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 41 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.519 program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime 42 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.480 history and the authors are written about them. This is 43 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.680 the third anniversary of True Murder and thanks to the 44 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:06.040 incredible fans that being you audience, two point five million 45 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:10.759 programs have been downloaded since January twenty ten. I want 46 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:14.479 to thank you very very much, True Murder fans. Thank 47 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:19.080 you for all the people that personally contacted me praising 48 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:22.879 the program, thanking me for having the program, talking about 49 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.560 specific programs that they had listened to and they enjoyed. 50 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:32.080 All the feedback, all the input, all the accolades, and 51 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:39.159 all the thank you is much greatly appreciated. Really, I 52 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:44.520 can't thank you enough for tuning in and then having 53 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:49.479 the presence to contact me and then it's just great. 54 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.439 So I really really appreciate all the input from all 55 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.039 the fans throughout the world. We had a big following 56 00:02:56.039 --> 00:03:00.240 in Australia and of course America and throughout the world. 57 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.280 I get contacted from people from all kinds of far 58 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.479 away places talking about listening to the program over and 59 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.759 over again, loving the guests that I able to get 60 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.960 on the program, and it's a lot of fun for me, 61 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.120 and I know that the audience is enjoying the program 62 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:22.400 as well. I want to talk about some upcoming programs. 63 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:27.039 A little bit of news from again a viewer that 64 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:32.400 was very concerned, very passionate, and very articulate and had 65 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:37.680 sent me a message after The last recorded program I 66 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:42.599 had was with Larry Crompton in December, and I believe 67 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:46.199 it was the twenty first. I got my dates wrong, 68 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.520 but anyways, the last interview I did before Christmas Sudden 69 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:57.039 Tear with Larry Crompton. He is a retired veteran detective 70 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.240 who has been on the case for the Looking for 71 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:08.240 the East Area Rapist Original Nightstalkery Part May fifty Sexual Assaults, Rapes, 72 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:17.160 ten murders. This perpetrator terrorized California and never has never 73 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:21.439 been caught, and so he came on the program. I 74 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.439 was happy to have him. He still lives and breathes 75 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.160 this case and still is concerned that this person is 76 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.680 out there and obviously has not been brought to justice, 77 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:36.800 and he would like the book to be able to 78 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.560 do that, and he would like the program, if possible, 79 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.920 for someone that could possibly listen to the program at 80 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.480 some point and maybe provide some information for the East 81 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:52.800 Area rapist to maybe solve this incredible, frightening chapter in 82 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:59.040 California history by capturing this East Area rapist Original Nightstalker, 83 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.519 an incredible book. I have to apologize, and I did 84 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.720 to the person that contacted me, and I'm going to 85 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:13.199 read a little bit from her email, because again she 86 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.519 was very passionate about the case itself, but she had 87 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:21.199 issue with the book itself and the depiction of one 88 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:27.839 of the women actually enjoying the sexual assault, the rape 89 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:32.279 by the East Area rapist. And again I have to 90 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.720 apologize because this is not something that I believe in 91 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.560 that women enjoy rape, or my position has been very 92 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.839 clear for anybody who's listening to the program, in interviews 93 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:48.240 and when I go off tangentially and start speaking about 94 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.519 issues rather than other than just specifically author's books. Is 95 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:58.240 that my opinion of victims. And there is no one 96 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.959 that deserves to die, and there are certainly people that 97 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.360 put themselves in harms way, that doesn't mean I blame 98 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:16.319 these people. The vulnerable street person, the prostitute that's vulnerable 99 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:22.000 and is out there on the street for whatever reason, again, 100 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:26.000 a drug addicted regardless, I don't have a low opinion 101 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.360 of these people. I have a low opinion of the 102 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.600 people that would prey on these people, the killers that 103 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:37.199 through the courts and through dogged police work and all 104 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:42.439 kinds of people coming to the aid of justice, these 105 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.240 killers are brought to justice. These are the people that 106 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:53.319 I target my anger, and these are the people that 107 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:55.720 need to be incarcerated. These are the people that need 108 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.759 to be vilified. These are the people that need to 109 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:04.439 be demonized, not victims. So I would not if I 110 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:09.639 would carefully read this book, and I you know, I 111 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.480 do say that I read these books in their entirety. 112 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:17.399 Sometimes because of maybe because of five hundred pages or more, 113 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:20.680 I don't read all of it as carefully as I should. 114 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.800 And this is a good example why I should have 115 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.240 it read this and then any end never being able 116 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.000 to call them on that specifically, So at least it 117 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.439 doesn't sound like I have I'm going along with this 118 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:39.480 notion whatsoever. So I'll just briefly talk about read a 119 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:44.120 little bit of this email because I think it's important, 120 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:51.439 and then we'll deal with that issue. This person says, 121 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.439 I know that any publicity for this case is a 122 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:55.720 good thing, but I really wish you had not let 123 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.360 Crompton slide with something he said during your interview. He 124 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.680 said he thought that one of the rape victims was 125 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:05.079 sexually excited by the rape. He then back to his 126 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.199 belief by saying that the narcotics department had at some 127 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.439 later date found private intimate photos of her having sex 128 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.759 with her boyfriend. He has stated the same in his 129 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:23.079 book Sudden Terror and She says, is justification for smearing 130 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.920 this woman is he believes she is a slot and 131 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.319 only a woman would divorce her husband and display of 132 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.039 sexuality would also be sexually excited about being raped. In 133 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:39.759 his view, this is what Larry Crompton did say in 134 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:45.200 the book during the interview with Sonny Walter. I got 135 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.080 the feeling that the rape incident really wasn't that frightening 136 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.879 to her. It was almost like this was the ultimate 137 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.120 turn on a fantasy that had been fulfilled. As we left, 138 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.039 I disclosed my feelings to Ford. It seemed like her 139 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.080 eyes actually glazed over when she was describing the attack, 140 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.399 I stated, I picked up on that also thought it 141 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:06.240 was just me, But I noticed her eyes when she 142 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.679 was talking about being tied up and naked with East 143 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:13.559 Area rapist standing over for it, remarked, and then he writes, well, 144 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:15.399 she is definitely one of the prettiest he has hit. 145 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:17.600 But I get a real strong feeling that this marriage 146 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:22.440 is just about over, I replied. Anyway, I won't deal 147 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.600 with this issue anymore. All I know is that my 148 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.080 belief system is that I would have a hard time 149 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:33.759 believing that anybody could discern that someone actually was excited 150 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:39.639 about this sexual assault. And really some of the argument 151 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.679 this woman put forth is very credible in terms of 152 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:49.120 her sense of the argument that when she compares his 153 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.200 conclusions to what actually happened, and it can be found 154 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:58.919 in this book that is a conclusion that comes from 155 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:04.279 not looking at facts or information or evidence, but more 156 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:07.519 of a personal opinion, and a personal opinion may be 157 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.440 based on you know, people's mentality sensibilities have changed over 158 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.720 the years, thankfully, and I think that there is a 159 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:25.080 lot of people who blame the prostitute that diminished their 160 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:29.799 role in society, that think that they have something coming 161 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:33.759 to them more the less deserved of our attention and 162 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.360 our respect and our care, especially when they go missing. 163 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.720 And we've seen endless cases. Amazing case in Canada with 164 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.159 Robert Picton forty nine victims according to him speaking to 165 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:51.080 an undercover officer, but evidence of thirty three again prostitutes. 166 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:55.240 And when a prostitute came forward and gave testimony to 167 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.360 the police, they didn't believe her because of course prostitutes 168 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:04.039 and drug addicted people that are called junkies don't have 169 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:06.840 any credibility. But you know, if you really think about it, 170 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:12.519 people that dismiss other people really don't have any credibility. 171 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.519 So that's what I'm trying to say is that Larry 172 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.799 Crumpton is a fine author and a dedicated police officer, 173 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.519 but he may have got it wrong on this one point. 174 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:28.440 And this you know, thoughtful, concerned and very very passionate 175 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.600 viewer contacted me and wanted to make that correction, and 176 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:36.279 I wish Larry Crumpton all the best in capturing the 177 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:40.360 Easteria rapists. That would be amazing, amazing outcome. But let's 178 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:44.320 not again years and years and years, and I'm sure 179 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.080 we'll go through many more years of blaming the victim 180 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:54.159 and the vulnerable, prostitute, the street walker, not the classy, 181 00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:02.080 more behind the scenes. Escort is just one of the 182 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:04.960 lowest members of society, according to a lot of people. 183 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.639 And I want to make that very very clear that 184 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:13.840 these books are filled with vulnerable people, people that these 185 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:19.000 psychopathic killers, these serial killers target specifically for that reason. 186 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:23.320 The more that these people can be not missed, the 187 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:28.039 more that these people are vulnerable and gullible and in 188 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.919 a position to jump in a vehicle or to do 189 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.320 things with strangers, they become the victims of these psychopathic 190 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:43.600 serial killers. And speaking of psychopathic serial killers, we're going 191 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.919 to be starting the new year with Linda Rosenkrantz and 192 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.039 she's been on a couple times already with her fine books, 193 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:56.960 and she's going to be talking about her new book 194 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:02.639 called House of Lies, and it's about a happily married 195 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:08.720 prom queen and their marriage goes awry and the husband 196 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:13.720 winds up dead. And that's the House of Lives. That 197 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:19.159 is with Linda rosen Krantz. She's a Pinnacle Kensington Press, 198 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.039 Pinnacle Imprint author, and she's been on the program a 199 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:27.080 couple times with her book books. Pardon me and let 200 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:31.080 me get a little bit of more information if I could, 201 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.720 Linda rosen Krantz. And then the next week, the twenty 202 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.200 third is Sheila Johnson. And Sheila Johnson is the author 203 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:48.320 of Bloodlust, Blood Highway, and Blood Betrayal, and she's a 204 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:53.600 newspaper crime reporter and she started writing true crime and 205 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.799 she has written the forward to a what has become 206 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.679 a true crime classic, and it is one of the 207 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:03.559 first interviews I did on true murder. And it was 208 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.919 very important that I try to do that kind of 209 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:13.759 particular case. David Parker Ray and his partners, including his daughter, 210 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:23.840 dungeon masters with secret sellers, with torture racks and a 211 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:28.120 instruction manual for the sex slaves that they would have 212 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:33.000 at his compound underground compound. David Parker Ray one of 213 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.639 the most fascinating true crime stories ever and the author 214 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.399 of that was Jim Fielder, who has now passed away. 215 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.559 And when I talked with Sheila Johnson on the twenty third, 216 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.960 she has written the forward for the book and she 217 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.720 had told me in our correspondence that it was the 218 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.960 first true crime book that she had read greatly influenced her. 219 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:57.080 And we'll get a little bit more information about the 220 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:01.600 influence of Slow Death. The incredible case of David Parker 221 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:10.240 Ray and his Dungeon of Horror and his accomplices. And 222 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:17.240 I guess fortunate person people that got away and were 223 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:20.919 able to tell this story and led to the inevitable capture. 224 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:27.480 Now that is the twenty third and like I said, 225 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:34.240 Linda Rosenkrantz will be on the sixteenth and the cases 226 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:38.320 involving Kelly Cannon. And she was a former prom queen, 227 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.600 three children, successful, had some husband Jim, and an elegant 228 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:50.639 home in a wealthy neighborhood in Nashville. But their housekeeper 229 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:53.879 one day found Jim murdered, strangled to death. 230 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.039 While he is Ryan here and I have a question 231 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.799 for you, what do you do when you win? 232 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:00.279 Like? 233 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.559 Are you at fist pumper, a wooer, a handclapper, a 234 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.399 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 235 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.120 if you want to hone in on those winning moves. 236 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.440 Check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com. Choose from 237 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.080 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 238 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.919 redeem serious cash prize. There are new game releases weekly 239 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:19.879 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the 240 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.639 most fun ever at chumbacasino dot com. 241 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.600 Noiber not necessarily veryboy lost in terms conditions. 242 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:30.120 Eighteen plus children slept. The whole fairy tale of the 243 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:34.879 promising marriage and power couple, the whole thing collapsed, and 244 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:41.679 the behind this facade, Kelly's glamorous lifestyle was really more 245 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:46.080 about infidelity, alcohol, drug abuse. And we'll talk about this 246 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:53.720 ninety pound little gorgeous woman and her trial and what 247 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:59.399 the jury and the judge found at this trial. Particularly 248 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:06.480 interesting case in Nashville that is house of lies. Then 249 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:12.680 we have Tom philben read an interesting book. Really, what 250 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.359 it is is he's gathered a bunch of information that 251 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.519 he got from other sources, but really did a great 252 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:23.599 job in gathering probably the worst collection of serial killers 253 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.839 and their intimate writings. You have John Wayne Gacy, and 254 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:29.759 you have a little bit about John Wayne Gacy, but 255 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.720 the people that he wrote extensively about you might not 256 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.279 have heard as much about. And he writes extensively about 257 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.599 Albert Fish, which is the territory of Harold Scheckter that 258 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:46.880 was on before Christmas. Great guest, one of the biggest 259 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:50.720 authors and one of my favorites, because he really does 260 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.039 deal with the most adharrant serial killers of all time 261 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.519 and really is a mix. Of course, he's a true 262 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.440 crime off, but there's a fair amount of you know, 263 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.680 Harold Scheckter really understanding or getting to understand the serial 264 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.720 killer mind. I think he is one of the, if 265 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:14.200 thought the premier or one of the serial killer experts 266 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.240 in the world today, Harold Scheckter, And he has done 267 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:26.720 stories about Albert Fish, pedophile, cannibal, incredible murderer and wrote 268 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.599 the victim of a six year old he had abducted, 269 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.640 or at least he conned this family into letting him 270 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.400 take the daughter to a little to a birthday party 271 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:49.400 that never existed, and then killed her, tortured her, ate her, 272 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.920 and then later you know, wrote in great detail and 273 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:58.559 disgusting detail what he had done and how much he 274 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:04.000 enjoyed the entire high affair. So again this is almost 275 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.319 a segue into talking about my book because my book 276 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:13.519 finally I got some excellent reviews compiled from some authors 277 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.920 that have been on this program and some authors that 278 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:20.720 I approach of the because they're best selling authors and 279 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:24.240 also because I really respect their writing and who they 280 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:30.000 are as true crime authors. And I compiled those reviews 281 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.519 from those authors and put them on the Amazon site, 282 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.519 and the publisher was good enough to finally release my 283 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.920 book in kindle version. And for those people, there have 284 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.079 been some requests for the book, and especially internationally outside 285 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.359 of America and Canada, the book gets quite expensive. And 286 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.880 I have to admit that the decision by the publisher 287 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:56.240 to to release the book and have it at twenty 288 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:00.240 two dollars plus tax in Canada seventeen or eight teen 289 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.200 dollars in America plus tax usually with Amazon's free shipping, 290 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.319 no major distribution in the US, and so you won't 291 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.079 be seeing it in Barnes and Noble on the shelf 292 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:15.839 throughout America, and really it would cost an arm and 293 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.759 a leg and other body parts. You know, Pun intended 294 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:23.359 to be able to get that done anyway, So it's 295 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.759 available as published on demand. But again for a lot 296 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.480 of people, you know, a lot of true crime books 297 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.559 are seven or eight dollars or ten dollars, and anyway, 298 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.720 it's not a motivator for people a lot of times 299 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.720 in these tough times, and so many books to pick from, 300 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.000 and so many great authors and so many fascinating stories. 301 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.400 As you know from listening to this program, that now 302 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.079 the e book is more affordable. There's a lot of 303 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:54.000 people that prefer e books. We saw the advent of 304 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:57.920 the e book outselling paperbacks in Britain, and I know 305 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:04.759 America the sales we're itching towards that. Anyway, whether it 306 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.960 peaks or whether it levels off, or whether it declines somewhat, 307 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.000 the e book is here to stay. It is preferred 308 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.279 by many people. And now Trophy Kill, the Amazon Kindle 309 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.400 version is available for four ninety nine, so it is 310 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.720 more affordable. And I urge those people that enjoy this 311 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:30.640 program that without the book, without my involvement with this 312 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:36.519 psychopathic serial killer and the judicial system and being involved 313 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.400 in a law reform group prior to that, and my 314 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:44.279 whole involvement. After moving from sleeping little town to murder 315 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.759 capital of Canada, I had a real eye opening about 316 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.880 murder and not to say that it consumes me constantly. 317 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.480 But this is what I've chosen to specialize as murder, 318 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:01.039 the murder process, the law behind murder, actually the mind 319 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.000 of the murderer, the killer, the psychopathic killer, and the 320 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.279 psychology behind all of the players, the defense attorneys, the 321 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:15.680 prosecuting attorneys, the jurors, the media and the audience at 322 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:22.799 the media toys with we'll say, every player that's involved. 323 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:29.680 Very fascinating to me, and with the book itself and 324 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:35.559 the research behind it, I sort of became involved. I 325 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.039 read one of the first true crime books was In 326 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.400 Cold Blood, but later when I was doing the research 327 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:44.640 for my own book, one of the first books that 328 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.519 I read was Stranger Beside Me from Ann Rule, and 329 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.480 what I particularly enjoyed was it really drew me into 330 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.119 the story was her personal involvement with one of the 331 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:01.079 worst serial killers and most charismatic and most evil serial 332 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:04.000 killers of all time, Ted Bundy, and she was working 333 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:08.160 on a suicide hotline with him and had no idea 334 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:13.599 who he really was. And it's an amazing book to 335 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.359 sort of get your feet wet and become a true 336 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:21.079 crime fan. I mean, I was a non fiction reader 337 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:24.599 specifically and with a little bit of fiction, but I 338 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.279 don't think I've read much else but true crime, because 339 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.720 as this program has illustrated, and it's illustrated to me 340 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.640 from all the authors that I've had on the program, 341 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:40.440 everything from memoir to the true crime sort of typical 342 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:46.039 format to some kind of daring kind of formats, things 343 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:49.400 that are sort of mixed the memoir meets true crime, 344 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:56.400 but different perspectives from a now a judge who was 345 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.920 a lawyer for John Wayne Gacy, a prosecuting attorney, a 346 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:10.359 media person who is championing, championing the the false imprisonment 347 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:17.440 or the false imprisonment of their subject in their book, 348 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.799 so they go on to be an activist and someone 349 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:25.599 fighting for this person's freedom because they are wrongfully convicted. 350 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.359 There are those that have been on the program written 351 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:35.000 a book from the perspective of the victim's family and 352 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.920 then of course the ensuing trials, and from the perspective 353 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:43.920 of a family that interceded and prevented a serial killer 354 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:48.079 from killing their child, and because of that intervention and 355 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.279 because of that apprehension of that criminal, it led to 356 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:54.720 the discovery that this person was a serial killer. I 357 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:59.519 had before Christmas, a person who was convicted of murder 358 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.920 but was given a sentence by reason of insanity. So 359 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.440 they spent in total about seven years, three years in 360 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.599 an institution, or four years in an institution, three years 361 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.720 in a hospital. This was a schizophrenic killer. So there 362 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.400 was and I could go on and on about the perspective, 363 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:24.880 and so this is why originally I became involved. I 364 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:29.680 first became involved by reading the papers and being disturbed, 365 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.279 and then reading as much as I could about the law, 366 00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:38.799 and then becoming active in this law reform group, and 367 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:43.920 then working in the media on radio doing a program 368 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.759 where I had the freedom to be able to do 369 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:50.119 whatever subject I was really interested in. More and more 370 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.920 it became more serious subjects and about the law and 371 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.680 trying to understand the law, especially when it came to 372 00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:00.839 serious crime. We're not talking about my crime. We're talking 373 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:05.039 about the most serious crime, of course, that's murder, rape, pedophilia. 374 00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:09.720 But let's start at the most heinous of all crime, murder. 375 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:16.839 So this is what has shaped me, is this case 376 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.960 that I was involved in in two thousand and three, 377 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:25.839 on July one, in the city of Winnipeg, Province of 378 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.480 Manitoba and Canada, about a population about seven hundred thousand people, 379 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:35.119 kind of the size of seattlevel without the suburban area. 380 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:42.599 Really not much suburbs per se. Anyway, the Shall We 381 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:47.960 Dance movie Jennifer Lopez, Susan Sarandon and Richard Gear was 382 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.200 being filmed in Winnipeg. It was originally planned to be 383 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:56.039 filmed in Toronto, where the Miramax film that was very 384 00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.920 very successful Oscar winning Chicago had been filmed. And I 385 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.880 think it's really pretty obvious that Miramax was trying to 386 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:09.559 capitalize on that dance team movie by putting Richard Gear 387 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.759 back in a role, in a dancing role, hence the 388 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:17.240 title Shall We Dance? It's a remake, however, but Jennifer 389 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:21.680 Lopez a very very big celebrity now then and probably forever, 390 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.799 Susan Saran in a big star and Richard Gear was 391 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:29.640 supposed to be filmed in Toronto. Because of the stars threat, 392 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.599 they moved it to Winnipeg. So about halfway through June, 393 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.079 middle of June or so, Susan Saran and Richard Gear 394 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.279 arrive in Winnipeg. Big hoopland. The city Winnipeg, if you 395 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:46.480 don't know it, has stolen a lot of work from America, 396 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.599 Hollywood specifically, and a lot of American jurisdictions by in 397 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.039 effect basically being able to get a movie done for 398 00:27:54.599 --> 00:28:00.079 half price with all the subsidies with because Winnipeg was 399 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:06.839 such a cheap or inexpensive place to make a film, 400 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.440 and because they had an experienced crew here, a support 401 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.559