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Speaker 2: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 2: Killers in True crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 2: written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 2: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 2: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 2: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 4: Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 4: program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime
Speaker 4: history and the authors are written about them. This is
Speaker 4: the third anniversary of True Murder and thanks to the
Speaker 4: incredible fans that being you audience, two point five million
Speaker 4: programs have been downloaded since January twenty ten. I want
Speaker 4: to thank you very very much, True Murder fans. Thank
Speaker 4: you for all the people that personally contacted me praising
Speaker 4: the program, thanking me for having the program, talking about
Speaker 4: specific programs that they had listened to and they enjoyed.
Speaker 4: All the feedback, all the input, all the accolades, and
Speaker 4: all the thank you is much greatly appreciated. Really, I
Speaker 4: can't thank you enough for tuning in and then having
Speaker 4: the presence to contact me and then it's just great.
Speaker 4: So I really really appreciate all the input from all
Speaker 4: the fans throughout the world. We had a big following
Speaker 4: in Australia and of course America and throughout the world.
Speaker 4: I get contacted from people from all kinds of far
Speaker 4: away places talking about listening to the program over and
Speaker 4: over again, loving the guests that I able to get
Speaker 4: on the program, and it's a lot of fun for me,
Speaker 4: and I know that the audience is enjoying the program
Speaker 4: as well. I want to talk about some upcoming programs.
Speaker 4: A little bit of news from again a viewer that
Speaker 4: was very concerned, very passionate, and very articulate and had
Speaker 4: sent me a message after The last recorded program I
Speaker 4: had was with Larry Crompton in December, and I believe
Speaker 4: it was the twenty first. I got my dates wrong,
Speaker 4: but anyways, the last interview I did before Christmas Sudden
Speaker 4: Tear with Larry Crompton. He is a retired veteran detective
Speaker 4: who has been on the case for the Looking for
Speaker 4: the East Area Rapist Original Nightstalkery Part May fifty Sexual Assaults, Rapes,
Speaker 4: ten murders. This perpetrator terrorized California and never has never
Speaker 4: been caught, and so he came on the program. I
Speaker 4: was happy to have him. He still lives and breathes
Speaker 4: this case and still is concerned that this person is
Speaker 4: out there and obviously has not been brought to justice,
Speaker 4: and he would like the book to be able to
Speaker 4: do that, and he would like the program, if possible,
Speaker 4: for someone that could possibly listen to the program at
Speaker 4: some point and maybe provide some information for the East
Speaker 4: Area rapist to maybe solve this incredible, frightening chapter in
Speaker 4: California history by capturing this East Area rapist Original Nightstalker,
Speaker 4: an incredible book. I have to apologize, and I did
Speaker 4: to the person that contacted me, and I'm going to
Speaker 4: read a little bit from her email, because again she
Speaker 4: was very passionate about the case itself, but she had
Speaker 4: issue with the book itself and the depiction of one
Speaker 4: of the women actually enjoying the sexual assault, the rape
Speaker 4: by the East Area rapist. And again I have to
Speaker 4: apologize because this is not something that I believe in
Speaker 4: that women enjoy rape, or my position has been very
Speaker 4: clear for anybody who's listening to the program, in interviews
Speaker 4: and when I go off tangentially and start speaking about
Speaker 4: issues rather than other than just specifically author's books. Is
Speaker 4: that my opinion of victims. And there is no one
Speaker 4: that deserves to die, and there are certainly people that
Speaker 4: put themselves in harms way, that doesn't mean I blame
Speaker 4: these people. The vulnerable street person, the prostitute that's vulnerable
Speaker 4: and is out there on the street for whatever reason, again,
Speaker 4: a drug addicted regardless, I don't have a low opinion
Speaker 4: of these people. I have a low opinion of the
Speaker 4: people that would prey on these people, the killers that
Speaker 4: through the courts and through dogged police work and all
Speaker 4: kinds of people coming to the aid of justice, these
Speaker 4: killers are brought to justice. These are the people that
Speaker 4: I target my anger, and these are the people that
Speaker 4: need to be incarcerated. These are the people that need
Speaker 4: to be vilified. These are the people that need to
Speaker 4: be demonized, not victims. So I would not if I
Speaker 4: would carefully read this book, and I you know, I
Speaker 4: do say that I read these books in their entirety.
Speaker 4: Sometimes because of maybe because of five hundred pages or more,
Speaker 4: I don't read all of it as carefully as I should.
Speaker 4: And this is a good example why I should have
Speaker 4: it read this and then any end never being able
Speaker 4: to call them on that specifically, So at least it
Speaker 4: doesn't sound like I have I'm going along with this
Speaker 4: notion whatsoever. So I'll just briefly talk about read a
Speaker 4: little bit of this email because I think it's important,
Speaker 4: and then we'll deal with that issue. This person says,
Speaker 4: I know that any publicity for this case is a
Speaker 4: good thing, but I really wish you had not let
Speaker 4: Crompton slide with something he said during your interview. He
Speaker 4: said he thought that one of the rape victims was
Speaker 4: sexually excited by the rape. He then back to his
Speaker 4: belief by saying that the narcotics department had at some
Speaker 4: later date found private intimate photos of her having sex
Speaker 4: with her boyfriend. He has stated the same in his
Speaker 4: book Sudden Terror and She says, is justification for smearing
Speaker 4: this woman is he believes she is a slot and
Speaker 4: only a woman would divorce her husband and display of
Speaker 4: sexuality would also be sexually excited about being raped. In
Speaker 4: his view, this is what Larry Crompton did say in
Speaker 4: the book during the interview with Sonny Walter. I got
Speaker 4: the feeling that the rape incident really wasn't that frightening
Speaker 4: to her. It was almost like this was the ultimate
Speaker 4: turn on a fantasy that had been fulfilled. As we left,
Speaker 4: I disclosed my feelings to Ford. It seemed like her
Speaker 4: eyes actually glazed over when she was describing the attack,
Speaker 4: I stated, I picked up on that also thought it
Speaker 4: was just me, But I noticed her eyes when she
Speaker 4: was talking about being tied up and naked with East
Speaker 4: Area rapist standing over for it, remarked, and then he writes, well,
Speaker 4: she is definitely one of the prettiest he has hit.
Speaker 4: But I get a real strong feeling that this marriage
Speaker 4: is just about over, I replied. Anyway, I won't deal
Speaker 4: with this issue anymore. All I know is that my
Speaker 4: belief system is that I would have a hard time
Speaker 4: believing that anybody could discern that someone actually was excited
Speaker 4: about this sexual assault. And really some of the argument
Speaker 4: this woman put forth is very credible in terms of
Speaker 4: her sense of the argument that when she compares his
Speaker 4: conclusions to what actually happened, and it can be found
Speaker 4: in this book that is a conclusion that comes from
Speaker 4: not looking at facts or information or evidence, but more
Speaker 4: of a personal opinion, and a personal opinion may be
Speaker 4: based on you know, people's mentality sensibilities have changed over
Speaker 4: the years, thankfully, and I think that there is a
Speaker 4: lot of people who blame the prostitute that diminished their
Speaker 4: role in society, that think that they have something coming
Speaker 4: to them more the less deserved of our attention and
Speaker 4: our respect and our care, especially when they go missing.
Speaker 4: And we've seen endless cases. Amazing case in Canada with
Speaker 4: Robert Picton forty nine victims according to him speaking to
Speaker 4: an undercover officer, but evidence of thirty three again prostitutes.
Speaker 4: And when a prostitute came forward and gave testimony to
Speaker 4: the police, they didn't believe her because of course prostitutes
Speaker 4: and drug addicted people that are called junkies don't have
Speaker 4: any credibility. But you know, if you really think about it,
Speaker 4: people that dismiss other people really don't have any credibility.
Speaker 4: So that's what I'm trying to say is that Larry
Speaker 4: Crumpton is a fine author and a dedicated police officer,
Speaker 4: but he may have got it wrong on this one point.
Speaker 4: And this you know, thoughtful, concerned and very very passionate
Speaker 4: viewer contacted me and wanted to make that correction, and
Speaker 4: I wish Larry Crumpton all the best in capturing the
Speaker 4: Easteria rapists. That would be amazing, amazing outcome. But let's
Speaker 4: not again years and years and years, and I'm sure
Speaker 4: we'll go through many more years of blaming the victim
Speaker 4: and the vulnerable, prostitute, the street walker, not the classy,
Speaker 4: more behind the scenes. Escort is just one of the
Speaker 4: lowest members of society, according to a lot of people.
Speaker 4: And I want to make that very very clear that
Speaker 4: these books are filled with vulnerable people, people that these
Speaker 4: psychopathic killers, these serial killers target specifically for that reason.
Speaker 4: The more that these people can be not missed, the
Speaker 4: more that these people are vulnerable and gullible and in
Speaker 4: a position to jump in a vehicle or to do
Speaker 4: things with strangers, they become the victims of these psychopathic
Speaker 4: serial killers. And speaking of psychopathic serial killers, we're going
Speaker 4: to be starting the new year with Linda Rosenkrantz and
Speaker 4: she's been on a couple times already with her fine books,
Speaker 4: and she's going to be talking about her new book
Speaker 4: called House of Lies, and it's about a happily married
Speaker 4: prom queen and their marriage goes awry and the husband
Speaker 4: winds up dead. And that's the House of Lives. That
Speaker 4: is with Linda rosen Krantz. She's a Pinnacle Kensington Press,
Speaker 4: Pinnacle Imprint author, and she's been on the program a
Speaker 4: couple times with her book books. Pardon me and let
Speaker 4: me get a little bit of more information if I could,
Speaker 4: Linda rosen Krantz. And then the next week, the twenty
Speaker 4: third is Sheila Johnson. And Sheila Johnson is the author
Speaker 4: of Bloodlust, Blood Highway, and Blood Betrayal, and she's a
Speaker 4: newspaper crime reporter and she started writing true crime and
Speaker 4: she has written the forward to a what has become
Speaker 4: a true crime classic, and it is one of the
Speaker 4: first interviews I did on true murder. And it was
Speaker 4: very important that I try to do that kind of
Speaker 4: particular case. David Parker Ray and his partners, including his daughter,
Speaker 4: dungeon masters with secret sellers, with torture racks and a
Speaker 4: instruction manual for the sex slaves that they would have
Speaker 4: at his compound underground compound. David Parker Ray one of
Speaker 4: the most fascinating true crime stories ever and the author
Speaker 4: of that was Jim Fielder, who has now passed away.
Speaker 4: And when I talked with Sheila Johnson on the twenty third,
Speaker 4: she has written the forward for the book and she
Speaker 4: had told me in our correspondence that it was the
Speaker 4: first true crime book that she had read greatly influenced her.
Speaker 4: And we'll get a little bit more information about the
Speaker 4: influence of Slow Death. The incredible case of David Parker
Speaker 4: Ray and his Dungeon of Horror and his accomplices. And
Speaker 4: I guess fortunate person people that got away and were
Speaker 4: able to tell this story and led to the inevitable capture.
Speaker 4: Now that is the twenty third and like I said,
Speaker 4: Linda Rosenkrantz will be on the sixteenth and the cases
Speaker 4: involving Kelly Cannon. And she was a former prom queen,
Speaker 4: three children, successful, had some husband Jim, and an elegant
Speaker 4: home in a wealthy neighborhood in Nashville. But their housekeeper
Speaker 4: one day found Jim murdered, strangled to death.
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Speaker 2: Noiber not necessarily veryboy lost in terms conditions.
Speaker 4: Eighteen plus children slept. The whole fairy tale of the
Speaker 4: promising marriage and power couple, the whole thing collapsed, and
Speaker 4: the behind this facade, Kelly's glamorous lifestyle was really more
Speaker 4: about infidelity, alcohol, drug abuse. And we'll talk about this
Speaker 4: ninety pound little gorgeous woman and her trial and what
Speaker 4: the jury and the judge found at this trial. Particularly
Speaker 4: interesting case in Nashville that is house of lies. Then
Speaker 4: we have Tom philben read an interesting book. Really, what
Speaker 4: it is is he's gathered a bunch of information that
Speaker 4: he got from other sources, but really did a great
Speaker 4: job in gathering probably the worst collection of serial killers
Speaker 4: and their intimate writings. You have John Wayne Gacy, and
Speaker 4: you have a little bit about John Wayne Gacy, but
Speaker 4: the people that he wrote extensively about you might not
Speaker 4: have heard as much about. And he writes extensively about
Speaker 4: Albert Fish, which is the territory of Harold Scheckter that
Speaker 4: was on before Christmas. Great guest, one of the biggest
Speaker 4: authors and one of my favorites, because he really does
Speaker 4: deal with the most adharrant serial killers of all time
Speaker 4: and really is a mix. Of course, he's a true
Speaker 4: crime off, but there's a fair amount of you know,
Speaker 4: Harold Scheckter really understanding or getting to understand the serial
Speaker 4: killer mind. I think he is one of the, if
Speaker 4: thought the premier or one of the serial killer experts
Speaker 4: in the world today, Harold Scheckter, And he has done
Speaker 4: stories about Albert Fish, pedophile, cannibal, incredible murderer and wrote
Speaker 4: the victim of a six year old he had abducted,
Speaker 4: or at least he conned this family into letting him
Speaker 4: take the daughter to a little to a birthday party
Speaker 4: that never existed, and then killed her, tortured her, ate her,
Speaker 4: and then later you know, wrote in great detail and
Speaker 4: disgusting detail what he had done and how much he
Speaker 4: enjoyed the entire high affair. So again this is almost
Speaker 4: a segue into talking about my book because my book
Speaker 4: finally I got some excellent reviews compiled from some authors
Speaker 4: that have been on this program and some authors that
Speaker 4: I approach of the because they're best selling authors and
Speaker 4: also because I really respect their writing and who they
Speaker 4: are as true crime authors. And I compiled those reviews
Speaker 4: from those authors and put them on the Amazon site,
Speaker 4: and the publisher was good enough to finally release my
Speaker 4: book in kindle version. And for those people, there have
Speaker 4: been some requests for the book, and especially internationally outside
Speaker 4: of America and Canada, the book gets quite expensive. And
Speaker 4: I have to admit that the decision by the publisher
Speaker 4: to to release the book and have it at twenty
Speaker 4: two dollars plus tax in Canada seventeen or eight teen
Speaker 4: dollars in America plus tax usually with Amazon's free shipping,
Speaker 4: no major distribution in the US, and so you won't
Speaker 4: be seeing it in Barnes and Noble on the shelf
Speaker 4: throughout America, and really it would cost an arm and
Speaker 4: a leg and other body parts. You know, Pun intended
Speaker 4: to be able to get that done anyway, So it's
Speaker 4: available as published on demand. But again for a lot
Speaker 4: of people, you know, a lot of true crime books
Speaker 4: are seven or eight dollars or ten dollars, and anyway,
Speaker 4: it's not a motivator for people a lot of times
Speaker 4: in these tough times, and so many books to pick from,
Speaker 4: and so many great authors and so many fascinating stories.
Speaker 4: As you know from listening to this program, that now
Speaker 4: the e book is more affordable. There's a lot of
Speaker 4: people that prefer e books. We saw the advent of
Speaker 4: the e book outselling paperbacks in Britain, and I know
Speaker 4: America the sales we're itching towards that. Anyway, whether it
Speaker 4: peaks or whether it levels off, or whether it declines somewhat,
Speaker 4: the e book is here to stay. It is preferred
Speaker 4: by many people. And now Trophy Kill, the Amazon Kindle
Speaker 4: version is available for four ninety nine, so it is
Speaker 4: more affordable. And I urge those people that enjoy this
Speaker 4: program that without the book, without my involvement with this
Speaker 4: psychopathic serial killer and the judicial system and being involved
Speaker 4: in a law reform group prior to that, and my
Speaker 4: whole involvement. After moving from sleeping little town to murder
Speaker 4: capital of Canada, I had a real eye opening about
Speaker 4: murder and not to say that it consumes me constantly.
Speaker 4: But this is what I've chosen to specialize as murder,
Speaker 4: the murder process, the law behind murder, actually the mind
Speaker 4: of the murderer, the killer, the psychopathic killer, and the
Speaker 4: psychology behind all of the players, the defense attorneys, the
Speaker 4: prosecuting attorneys, the jurors, the media and the audience at
Speaker 4: the media toys with we'll say, every player that's involved.
Speaker 4: Very fascinating to me, and with the book itself and
Speaker 4: the research behind it, I sort of became involved. I
Speaker 4: read one of the first true crime books was In
Speaker 4: Cold Blood, but later when I was doing the research
Speaker 4: for my own book, one of the first books that
Speaker 4: I read was Stranger Beside Me from Ann Rule, and
Speaker 4: what I particularly enjoyed was it really drew me into
Speaker 4: the story was her personal involvement with one of the
Speaker 4: worst serial killers and most charismatic and most evil serial
Speaker 4: killers of all time, Ted Bundy, and she was working
Speaker 4: on a suicide hotline with him and had no idea
Speaker 4: who he really was. And it's an amazing book to
Speaker 4: sort of get your feet wet and become a true
Speaker 4: crime fan. I mean, I was a non fiction reader
Speaker 4: specifically and with a little bit of fiction, but I
Speaker 4: don't think I've read much else but true crime, because
Speaker 4: as this program has illustrated, and it's illustrated to me
Speaker 4: from all the authors that I've had on the program,
Speaker 4: everything from memoir to the true crime sort of typical
Speaker 4: format to some kind of daring kind of formats, things
Speaker 4: that are sort of mixed the memoir meets true crime,
Speaker 4: but different perspectives from a now a judge who was
Speaker 4: a lawyer for John Wayne Gacy, a prosecuting attorney, a
Speaker 4: media person who is championing, championing the the false imprisonment
Speaker 4: or the false imprisonment of their subject in their book,
Speaker 4: so they go on to be an activist and someone
Speaker 4: fighting for this person's freedom because they are wrongfully convicted.
Speaker 4: There are those that have been on the program written
Speaker 4: a book from the perspective of the victim's family and
Speaker 4: then of course the ensuing trials, and from the perspective
Speaker 4: of a family that interceded and prevented a serial killer
Speaker 4: from killing their child, and because of that intervention and
Speaker 4: because of that apprehension of that criminal, it led to
Speaker 4: the discovery that this person was a serial killer. I
Speaker 4: had before Christmas, a person who was convicted of murder
Speaker 4: but was given a sentence by reason of insanity. So
Speaker 4: they spent in total about seven years, three years in
Speaker 4: an institution, or four years in an institution, three years
Speaker 4: in a hospital. This was a schizophrenic killer. So there
Speaker 4: was and I could go on and on about the perspective,
Speaker 4: and so this is why originally I became involved. I
Speaker 4: first became involved by reading the papers and being disturbed,
Speaker 4: and then reading as much as I could about the law,
Speaker 4: and then becoming active in this law reform group, and
Speaker 4: then working in the media on radio doing a program
Speaker 4: where I had the freedom to be able to do
Speaker 4: whatever subject I was really interested in. More and more
Speaker 4: it became more serious subjects and about the law and
Speaker 4: trying to understand the law, especially when it came to
Speaker 4: serious crime. We're not talking about my crime. We're talking
Speaker 4: about the most serious crime, of course, that's murder, rape, pedophilia.
Speaker 4: But let's start at the most heinous of all crime, murder.
Speaker 4: So this is what has shaped me, is this case
Speaker 4: that I was involved in in two thousand and three,
Speaker 4: on July one, in the city of Winnipeg, Province of
Speaker 4: Manitoba and Canada, about a population about seven hundred thousand people,
Speaker 4: kind of the size of seattlevel without the suburban area.
Speaker 4: Really not much suburbs per se. Anyway, the Shall We
Speaker 4: Dance movie Jennifer Lopez, Susan Sarandon and Richard Gear was
Speaker 4: being filmed in Winnipeg. It was originally planned to be
Speaker 4: filmed in Toronto, where the Miramax film that was very
Speaker 4: very successful Oscar winning Chicago had been filmed. And I
Speaker 4: think it's really pretty obvious that Miramax was trying to
Speaker 4: capitalize on that dance team movie by putting Richard Gear
Speaker 4: back in a role, in a dancing role, hence the
Speaker 4: title Shall We Dance? It's a remake, however, but Jennifer
Speaker 4: Lopez a very very big celebrity now then and probably forever,
Speaker 4: Susan Saran in a big star and Richard Gear was
Speaker 4: supposed to be filmed in Toronto. Because of the stars threat,
Speaker 4: they moved it to Winnipeg. So about halfway through June,
Speaker 4: middle of June or so, Susan Saran and Richard Gear
Speaker 4: arrive in Winnipeg. Big hoopland. The city Winnipeg, if you
Speaker 4: don't know it, has stolen a lot of work from America,
Speaker 4: Hollywood specifically, and a lot of American jurisdictions by in
Speaker 4: effect basically being able to get a movie done for
Speaker 4: half price with all the subsidies with because Winnipeg was
Speaker 4: such a cheap or inexpensive place to make a film,
Speaker 4: and because they had an experienced crew here, a support
Speaker 4: they could bring in and make movies, smaller budget movies,
Speaker 4: movies they could make a profits. And when you start
Speaker 4: dealing with fifty percent difference in the price of a movie,
Speaker 4: it starts getting attractive. Anyway, shall we dance was being
Speaker 4: filmed in Winnipeg was a big deal. The city was,
Speaker 4: of course, of paparazzi were in town waiting for Jennifer
Speaker 4: Lovewest wasn't in town as of yet, but she was
Speaker 4: due and at that time she was engaged to Ben Affleck,
Speaker 4: and Ben Affleck at that time was in Vancouver, and it
Speaker 4: was a whole controversy with some exotic dancers, and they
Speaker 4: were engaged, and as you know, that was a rocky
Speaker 4: summer for the couple itself and led to their split. Anyway,
Speaker 4: there was a gentleman Robert Robin Robert Green, and he
Speaker 4: was an Aboriginal that lived on a small reserve about
Speaker 4: two and a half hours from Winnipeg close to the
Speaker 4: Ontario border. And he was in Winnipeg apparently. I found
Speaker 4: this out later. He was to visit his sister and
Speaker 4: he just came in for the Forks for the festivities
Speaker 4: that came into the The forks would where the fireworks
Speaker 4: display would be, and there's a lot of there's a
Speaker 4: main stage there for entertainment. You know, half the city
Speaker 4: would gather there on July first, so it was sort
Speaker 4: of a big deal. There's shops there, of course, vendors,
Speaker 4: and it's a it's the one of the big places,
Speaker 4: if not the place to be on July first in Winnipeg. Anyway,
Speaker 4: this person came in visited his sister. I guess maybe
Speaker 4: visit friends had come in from the fireworks and the
Speaker 4: entertainment came in for a visit July first, and by
Speaker 4: police reports, I guess at some point saw what was
Speaker 4: going on. There was barricades close to the outdoor location
Speaker 4: and Surrandon and Richard gear I believe we're shooting some
Speaker 4: scenes or one of them where both of them were
Speaker 4: shooting some scenes, and there was of course barricades surrounding
Speaker 4: the vicinity, and there was people around trying to get
Speaker 4: a glimpse of one of the stars. Robin Green came
Speaker 4: by this crowd, probably didn't know what was really going on.
Speaker 4: I doubt he really was. He had just gotten into
Speaker 4: the city, and I'm not sure if he was really
Speaker 4: aware of what was really going on, but certainly this
Speaker 4: would be a novelty for most people, even Winnipeg citizens,
Speaker 4: despite movies being a big thing here for fifteen years.
Speaker 4: For sure. Robin Green then left that sort of group
Speaker 4: of people mulling around the barricades at this outdoor movie location.
Speaker 4: And unlike often the movie trailers that the stars changed
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Speaker 4: Details supposed to usually these outdoor sets, but anyway, this
Speaker 4: time it was and I guess Robin Green made it
Speaker 4: to one of the trailers. And I found this out
Speaker 4: through my investigation that one of the security staff that
Speaker 4: was entrusted to watch the trailer, especially Susan Sarandon's trailer,
Speaker 4: while he fell asleep. Robin Green was in the area,
Speaker 4: saw the open trailer. I guess where the trailer parted
Speaker 4: me the unmanned, unguarded trailer and entered the trailer. And
Speaker 4: Susan Sarandon wears a big, thick gold chain with a
Speaker 4: pendant in the movie. And my information they said it
Speaker 4: was originally costume jewey, but it was her personal jewelry
Speaker 4: that she has and she's had for a while, and
Speaker 4: she used it and wore it in the movie itself. Well,
Speaker 4: that was in the trailer and Robin Green found it,
Speaker 4: took it, exited the trailer, ed walked about eight ten
Speaker 4: blocks north and wound up at this bar called the Woodbine.
Speaker 4: Now the Woodbine is right next door. It's a It
Speaker 4: caters to a sort of a harder drinking crowd. That's
Speaker 4: because this is a downtown bar. Even though it's pretty
Speaker 4: good looking establishment, it's open at nine am, so it's
Speaker 4: for the serious, serious drinker. And right next door, though
Speaker 4: it is interesting, was Ted Motoka Dance Studio, and that's
Speaker 4: where Richard Gear would have his limo I would imagine
Speaker 4: parked out front, but that's where he was getting dance
Speaker 4: lessons from an instructor right next door, so him and
Speaker 4: some co stars were getting what he felt was extra
Speaker 4: dance lessons right next door to this hotel. Now, this
Speaker 4: hotel was just down the alley from the Royal Albert Hotel,
Speaker 4: a Royal Albert Arms hotel on a block this down
Speaker 4: and in the basement it was sort of a fixture
Speaker 4: of hardcore bands Cannibal Corpse, punk, heavy metal, hardcore. I
Speaker 4: say Cannibal Corpse because that's the kind of bands that
Speaker 4: often played there. It's one of the heavier, heavier bars
Speaker 4: for bands coming through to play in And the hotel
Speaker 4: itself was established in nineteen thirteen, so this was the
Speaker 4: other way of putting it's pretty decrepit hotel, and so
Speaker 4: low income residents really filled this place. And Sidney Tierhuse,
Speaker 4: who had just gotten back from Kenora, Ontario, again a
Speaker 4: couple hours away by car. He'd been fired from a
Speaker 4: job as a chef there in a restaurant, and he
Speaker 4: was back in Winnipeg. And Sidney had left Winnipeg when
Speaker 4: he was nineteen years of age and his dream was
Speaker 4: always to go out to Vancouver. And he made it
Speaker 4: out to Vancouver and he worked as a chef and
Speaker 4: stayed there for about nine years and then moved to Edmonton, Alberta.
Speaker 4: He had lived in various places, but primarily that's where
Speaker 4: he lived. He had moved for some reason from Edmonton, Alberta,
Speaker 4: all the way to Canora, Ontario for employment there, was
Speaker 4: fired because of drinking, made his way back to Winnipeg.
Speaker 4: Winnipeg is the city where he grew up. He is
Speaker 4: also Aboriginal and lived on a small reserve. But his
Speaker 4: mother gave him up when she was fifteen for option
Speaker 4: or to foster care. And the people that took him
Speaker 4: in were named tear Huse, a Dutch family, and they
Speaker 4: had him in foster care and then eventually when he
Speaker 4: was three years old, they adopted him outright and he
Speaker 4: became Sydney tear Hues. Now Sydney tear Hues was in
Speaker 4: the bar the Woodbine. According to him, shortly after nine am,
Speaker 4: came from the hotel. Apparently he had been up all
Speaker 4: night drinking, doing crack, smoking crack, that's what he said. Anyway,
Speaker 4: he was in the bar early sitting with a couple people,
Speaker 4: and according to him, Robin Green waltzes in and proceeds
Speaker 4: to go table to table trying to sell a gold
Speaker 4: necklace for fifteen dollars. Now, when he encounters Robin Green,
Speaker 4: he says, I wanted to have a seat, starts looking
Speaker 4: at the jewry. It examines the jewelry, realizes it looks
Speaker 4: in his mind anyway, it looks like women's jewelry, And
Speaker 4: as he says later, he thought it looked quite old.
Speaker 4: Excuse me, and look quite old. Yet he thought it
Speaker 4: was costume jewelry, or at least that's what he said
Speaker 4: much later. Regardless, he looked at this jewelry, he declined
Speaker 4: to buy it, and he said he gave they had
Speaker 4: a picture of beer. He gave half a glass of
Speaker 4: beer to his new friend acquaintance, and they sat and
Speaker 4: they proceeded to talk. Apparently they had a lot common
Speaker 4: found each other attractive. Since Sydney is a self avowed homosexual,
Speaker 4: and Sidney said, listen, why don't you come back to
Speaker 4: my room? I have some alcohol in my room. So
Speaker 4: apparently they went and, as Sidney Tierhuse later claimed, they
Speaker 4: went back to his room for consensual sex. Not a LEVELU.
Speaker 4: But the only people that use the word consensual is
Speaker 4: when they're arguing that it wasn't consensual, So I find
Speaker 4: it odd when he uses that term consensual. Anyway, they
Speaker 4: went up to his room and they began drinking and
Speaker 4: having sex, oral sex, sex, quite a bit of talk,
Speaker 4: Sydney talking about having a lot of sexual relations with
Speaker 4: this new acquaintance, taking some polarate photos of them, intimate
Speaker 4: poses in the bathtub, naked posing, and at some point
Speaker 4: the new acquaintance says, I wouldn't mind getting some sleep,
Speaker 4: So he says sure. He goes down to the bar,
Speaker 4: has a couple of drinks, talks to a bartender down there,
Speaker 4: comes back upstairs, they have some more alcohol. Apparently, they
Speaker 4: decide to go out for a walk. They head south
Speaker 4: towards a park that's frequented by homosexuals, and they go
Speaker 4: past the library and pick up some more alcohol. Apparently
Speaker 4: it's a really really hot day, you know, it's July first,
Speaker 4: two thousand and three. Now they walk towards a street,
Speaker 4: and this park is their final destination. Again, it might
Speaker 4: have taken them twenty minutes to get there from where
Speaker 4: they were downtown, not much longer than that. As soon
Speaker 4: as they get near that park, they would have to look.
Speaker 4: They would just have to look to their right, and
Speaker 4: they would see the barricades that Robin had seen earlier
Speaker 4: in the day, not that many hours earlier, and they
Speaker 4: would see the barricades, and they must have had a
Speaker 4: conversation about the movie, the Necklace, the trailers, some conversation.
Speaker 4: They hung around the park. They came back, it was
Speaker 4: maybe about five thirty. They talked to the bartender. The
Speaker 4: Sydney Church used to ask the bartender to watch his
Speaker 4: new friend. He says, I gotta go downstairs to get
Speaker 4: some ice, and apparently the bartender was introduced to him.
Speaker 4: Apparently sid he said, this is my cousin. Apparently that's
Speaker 4: a joke among the Aboriginal because everybody's the cousin. I
Speaker 4: didn't know that, but anyway, she says that he was swaying,
Speaker 4: so he was visibly drunk. Sidney seemed to be fine.
Speaker 4: He went down and got a bucket. Ice came back upstairs.
Speaker 4: They bid their ado headed up to the room, and
Speaker 4: that's the end of the first chapter. Now, the next day,
Speaker 4: about nine thirty in the morning. I remember the bartender
Speaker 4: saw Sydney five thirty or so, maybe a quarter to
Speaker 4: six six o'clock. It's now nine thirty the next day,
Speaker 4: July second, July second, happens to be the anniversary of
Speaker 4: Sidney Teerhues being adopted into the Tierhuse family, a family
Speaker 4: he later claims that abused him sexually, mentally, physically. He
Speaker 4: hated these people, and he made a point of July
Speaker 4: second being a significant date. Now we're on July second,
Speaker 4: two thousand and three. Sidney Tierhuse walks into not a
Speaker 4: police station, but he believes it's a police station. It's
Speaker 4: a remand center. Not much difference. But he walks into
Speaker 4: the remand Center, ironically, right across from the law courts,
Speaker 4: walks in calm as can be cleaned up. No, there's
Speaker 4: no blood on him. And he walks calmly and coolly.
Speaker 4: No panic, doesn't run into the place. Walks calmly and
Speaker 4: coolly into the place. And this is for Reemans you know,
Speaker 4: people coming in from visits. It's usually typically what happens.
Speaker 4: And he says, can I speak to somebody? So the
Speaker 4: person at the desk is okay, so he calls his
Speaker 4: superior in the back room. Then they've done and Don
Speaker 4: comes up from the back and yes, yes, can I
Speaker 4: help you out? Sir? Can I help you out? At
Speaker 4: Sidney cheers yes, I've I've come here because I killed
Speaker 4: somebody yesterday. He goes, Oh, to take any I'm not
Speaker 4: the guy you should be saying this too, like it
Speaker 4: sounds like a confession here. He's, you know, so he
Speaker 4: knows legal, he knows enough about legality that this is
Speaker 4: not the person. I'm not the person that you should
Speaker 4: be speaking to about this. And he dialed the number
Speaker 4: and gave it to Sydney Teerhues and it was the
Speaker 4: Public Safety Building, the police department, and he told the
Speaker 4: receptionist the person on the line that he had killed
Speaker 4: someone wanted to turn himself in. She said, well, how'd
Speaker 4: you do this? Well, I stabbed him. And what happened
Speaker 4: while I woke up, and I woke up, I blacked out,
Speaker 4: And when I woke up, I went to the washroom
Speaker 4: and there was, there was my acquaintance, there was my victim.
Speaker 4: I can't remember anything. I blacked out. Okay, so she said, okay.
Speaker 4: Police officers are o their way. So the guard said,
Speaker 4: have a seat. Cops took maybe fifteen minutes, wasn't far.
Speaker 4: They came now because of his cool demeter, calm demeter.
Speaker 4: There wasn't a period of time where the police actually
Speaker 4: thought that he might be joking. Because of that, and
Speaker 4: they noted that originally. So they escorted him back to
Speaker 4: his room at the Royal Albert Arms Hotel, Room three
Speaker 4: or died and another officer joined them, so there was
Speaker 4: three of them and an officer Beach was employed to
Speaker 4: stand out in the hall with Sydney tearhuse guarding him
Speaker 4: while the police officers went in. Because he still wasn't
Speaker 4: under arrest. They went in to confirm this person's story.
Speaker 4: The first thing they noticed was some bloody underwear hanging
Speaker 4: on door knobs. It's a very very very small room,
Speaker 4: and they noticed the bed that had a sheet on
Speaker 4: the floor, and the police officer, Sylvia Schroeder woman went
Speaker 4: towards the bed while while her partner Martin went towards
Speaker 4: the small washroom which wud be to the left, and
Speaker 4: he opened up the door, and in the bathtub was
Speaker 4: Robert Robin Green. There was no blood on his body,
Speaker 4: but his body was posed in that tub facing the
Speaker 4: doorway for maximum shock value. He had been decapitated, and
Speaker 4: his head had been repositioned back on the spine that
Speaker 4: was jutting out. He had been sawn in half at
Speaker 4: the waist, and yet the two halves of the body
Speaker 4: were put together, positioned together. The arms were disarticulated very
Speaker 4: much like a surgeon would where a pathologist would at
Speaker 4: the elbows, and the legs were disarticulated at the knees
Speaker 4: very much again like they were doing an autopsy, very careful,
Speaker 4: and those were positioned. He was cleanly castrated, and that
Speaker 4: was put in his position again, no blood. One of
Speaker 4: the eyes was deflated, the other was missing. The mouth
Speaker 4: was frozen wide open. The neck and chest had sixty
Speaker 4: eight stab wounds, but not random. It was in a
Speaker 4: figure eight pattern, almost symmetrical patron left side, right side.
Speaker 4: The hand was partially carefully dissected. But the thing that
Speaker 4: separates this crime and this killer is what that officer
Speaker 4: saw at that same time. There's no way of me
Speaker 4: to describing it for you, And there's no way I
Speaker 4: could put it in a book and describe it for you.
Speaker 4: But the thing that he was hit with was all
Speaker 4: of those things I described and one other thing. The
Speaker 4: killer had sliced the chest cavity open and gutted the
Speaker 4: human being. He had taken all of the organs, the intestines,
Speaker 4: the everything, the absolutely everything out of that cavity, everything,
Speaker 4: and it was washed. There was no blood. That's what
Speaker 4: that officer got to see. That he couldn't move for
Speaker 4: probably two or three minutes. He was told that there
Speaker 4: was going to be a body in that bathtub. And
Speaker 4: it's murder capital of Canada. And this is a rough
Speaker 4: and tumble town, but still it's never happened before. This
Speaker 4: is never not even Jack the ripperd did this. And
Speaker 4: of course there's some heinous, horrible crime scenes. And guess
Speaker 4: what they find about three feet away, Susan Sarandons stolen
Speaker 4: gold necklace. What was it doing there? Why was it?
Speaker 3: There?
Speaker 4: Was the question international news everywhere. In fact, they leave
Speaker 4: it to the paparazzi to intentionally get something wrong. Jennifer
Speaker 4: Lopez's necklace found pool of blood. She wasn't in town yet,
Speaker 4: but Susan Sarandon's gold neck place was three or four
Speaker 4: feet from this crime scene. But more importantly, was found
Speaker 4: at the crime scene. More importantly, why was it there
Speaker 4: at the crime scene? What did it have to do
Speaker 4: in terms of the motive for the murder? And what Indeed? Now,
Speaker 4: this killer had one lawyer and then fired that lawyer
Speaker 4: and got the most experienced murder trial lawyer in the
Speaker 4: English speaking world. Its name's Greg Brodsky. And how do
Speaker 4: you get to be the most experienced murder trial lawyer
Speaker 4: in the English speaking world. Well, in Canada, we don't
Speaker 4: just give you a lawyer. We pay for the lawyer
Speaker 4: to a system that seems to make a lot of sense.
Speaker 4: Instead of just giving you an inexperienced lawyer and paying
Speaker 4: for the tab, we give you as good a lawyer
Speaker 4: as a person who has money can afford. That's the
Speaker 4: great thing about Canada. Now, in my book, after I'm
Speaker 4: jumping ahead in my book, I interview Greg Brodsky on
Speaker 4: my radio program. I interview Greg Brodsky, But unbeknownst to him,
Speaker 4: I had already corresponded with his psychopathic client for a year. Now.
Speaker 4: When I said that Sidney Turey's claimed to black out
Speaker 4: and not remember any of the crime. Of course, that
Speaker 4: just sounds ridiculous, especially to Americans and other people in
Speaker 4: jurisdictions where murder is murder, and certainly you would not
Speaker 4: expect this to not be considered murder. You would consider
Speaker 4: this to be murder. But in Canada, especially at that time,
Speaker 4: under the presiding government at that time, a confluence of
Speaker 4: events made it that the law in the first place
Speaker 4: is that self induced intoxication can reduce murder to manslaughter,
Speaker 4: and manslaughter even though you could get a life sentence,
Speaker 4: you don't around ten years, which means, with good behavior,
Speaker 4: it's about eight years. But at that time, in two
Speaker 4: thousand and three, pre trial custody was counted as double
Speaker 4: so killers were in effect being released in about four years. Now,
Speaker 4: how does this apply to this killer, Well, believe it
Speaker 4: or not, with the best trial lawyer in the English
Speaker 4: speaking world, with a victim that wasn't highly regarded and
Speaker 4: a family that probably didn't even know what hit him
Speaker 4: and not so highly regarded, and years of writing off
Speaker 4: these murders as oh, just a bunch of drunk people,
Speaker 4: you know, those people not an important case, what we
Speaker 4: had is a situation where this psychopath serial killer would
Speaker 4: have been out in about three or four years, ready
Speaker 4: to kill again, or has he already killed before. So
Speaker 4: what makes this true crime book different is that not
Speaker 4: only do you get to read the words and the
Speaker 4: feelings and the emotions and the mindset of one of
Speaker 4: the most heinous serial killers of all time, you also
Speaker 4: get to see him at trial and hear him on
Speaker 4: the stead. And unlike many of the books that you have,
Speaker 4: the author I became the star witness for the prosecution
Speaker 4: based on trying to write a book about this case.
Speaker 4: Because the case dragged on from two thousand and three
Speaker 4: to two thousand and eight. The end of two thousand
Speaker 4: and eight, there was plenty of time for this serial
Speaker 4: killer to want to talk that In this book, you
Speaker 4: get a meticulous if that's a kind word I guess,
Speaker 4: for what happens. But you get to understand how the
Speaker 4: entire murder process actually works. It's not TV, it's not
Speaker 4: law and order. Some cases don't matter. And despite it
Speaker 4: not being your jurisdiction or your country, you can still
Speaker 4: see the mindset of killers running amok. In the US,
Speaker 4: the serial killers that have killed often they killed in
Speaker 4: places where there was going to be a death penalty.
Speaker 4: Other killers avoided admitting murders in certain jurisdics, so they
Speaker 4: would avoid the death penalty but still have their infamy.
Speaker 4: It's a couple of different situation When you have the
Speaker 4: kind of environment that we have here in this country,
Speaker 4: especially with this kind of law, it's almost like they're
Speaker 4: handcuffed and they can barely prosecute murder even when the
Speaker 4: killer is shouting from the rooftop. I am a serial killer.
Speaker 4: I love to kill and I enjoy it. So for
Speaker 4: those who have been listening to the program, if you're
Speaker 4: a new listener, you're an old listener, what I've tried
Speaker 4: to bring is to you each week. Overall with this
Speaker 4: program is the most shocking killers in true crime history
Speaker 4: and the authors that have written about them. And I
Speaker 4: am an author that has written about one one of
Speaker 4: the most shocking killers in true crime history. And that's
Speaker 4: not exaggeration, but it also is an introduction to who
Speaker 4: I am, how passionate I am about the law and
Speaker 4: ensuring that these people are recognized for the evil entities
Speaker 4: that they are. And also as anyone who's listened to
Speaker 4: this program knows that. There's a discussion, what do we
Speaker 4: do with the psychopathic killer, what do we do with
Speaker 4: the insane killer? What is the solution to these people
Speaker 4: doing what they do? Is there any rhyme or reason?
Speaker 4: And can we learn anything by knowing more and knowing
Speaker 4: as much as we can about the crimes the people involved.
Speaker 4: There's nothing weird about the true crime listener or reader.
Speaker 4: A lot of people have said that. All my friends
Speaker 4: think I'm so weird. And it's true crime, is true history.
Speaker 4: It's current events. If it's now, it's history, if it's then,
Speaker 4: it's also about society and culture. Thanks to the fans
Speaker 4: of True Murder, this is one of the most popular
Speaker 4: podcasts in the world, and especially about murder, and especially
Speaker 4: about true crime. And I was charting, this program was charting.
Speaker 4: It was reached number seventy eight in the austral Australian
Speaker 4: iTunes chart just before Christmas. So I want to thank
Speaker 4: everyone that listens to the program, especially to people that
Speaker 4: put up with me for this entire hour blabbing about
Speaker 4: myself and the program in my book. But I would
Speaker 4: really invite you to please go to Amazon get an
Speaker 4: ebook version if you can of this book because it
Speaker 4: can tell you a lot about serial killers in general.
Speaker 4: It is a primer if you don't know exactly. I mean,
Speaker 4: most of these books tell you, but this is close up,
Speaker 4: very very personal. But really it is. I think it
Speaker 4: will change the way you think about how these people
Speaker 4: believe what they believe. It's much worse than what might
Speaker 4: be represented in court when they talk in passionately or
Speaker 4: detachedly about the crimes and how the victims didn't mean
Speaker 4: much and their trophy gathering. They're atrocious, evil, heinous behavior
Speaker 4: is just the tip of the iceberg. And when you
Speaker 4: read my book, I've put two very compartmentized chapters there
Speaker 4: for you because they are heart wrenching. When the killer
Speaker 4: talks about taking out the victim's heart and slicing it
Speaker 4: open and letting the blood drip on himself. There's never
Speaker 4: been anything like this, And I take you through that
Speaker 4: journey because I went through that journey and came out
Speaker 4: a different. Like I say, inextricably involved, which means, if
Speaker 4: you look it up, there's no real way I can
Speaker 4: ever escape this. It's a part of me. And what
Speaker 4: I want people to know is if you enjoy this
Speaker 4: program and you enjoy the kind of authors that I
Speaker 4: have on this program. I believe I am one of
Speaker 4: those authors as well that's provided a glimpse into the
Speaker 4: mind of a serial killer, and in particular case with
Speaker 4: all the twins, in turns almost the incredible fictional tale
Speaker 4: that you'll ever read, except it's absolutely true. And that's
Speaker 4: what true murder is. The most shocking killers in true
Speaker 4: crime history, and truth is much much, much stranger than fiction.
Speaker 4: So again, I want to thank you very much for
Speaker 4: listening to this program tonight. This has been True Murder
Speaker 4: with your host Dan Zupansky. Join me next week for
Speaker 4: Linda Rosenkrantz and her book House of Lies. Good Night,