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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Navara Alive. Coming up tonight, we've got a

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<v Speaker 1>special report from Stephen Methan, who is back from a

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<v Speaker 1>defend our juries process in Westminster during which multiple people

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<v Speaker 1>were arrested seemingly simply of sitting down. We speak to

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<v Speaker 1>a Palestinian student trying to get an education in the UK,

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<v Speaker 1>and will be joined live by actress Juliette Stephenson to

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<v Speaker 1>speak about how campaign work for Gaza and last weep,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll discuss how the Greens will fare against a more

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<v Speaker 1>competent labor leader. I'm Helena Akino, Justice MTG and I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be joined later tonight for Ladies Night by Dahlia Gabrielle.

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<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to support our work, you can sign

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<v Speaker 1>up at Navaramedia dot com forward Slash Support. You can

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<v Speaker 1>also listen to the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>and as always, remember to like the video, subscribe to

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<v Speaker 1>the channel if you haven't already, and make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>you'll let us know what you think in the comments

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<v Speaker 1>section down below. In this country, over thirty five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>people have been arrested under the Terrorism Act since last summer.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of them have committed the HEENUS dangerous and Villa's

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<v Speaker 1>act of holding bits of paper on which they've written

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<v Speaker 1>just seven words, those words being I opposed genocide, I

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<v Speaker 1>support Palestine action. Today many of those charged were due

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<v Speaker 1>to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court. In fact, over fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>hundred cases were listed to have a hearing today. That's

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<v Speaker 1>according to defend Our Juries. But all when a bit

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<v Speaker 1>pair shaped Novara Stephen Methnin was down at the court

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<v Speaker 1>and he joins me, now, so Stephen, can you take

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<v Speaker 1>us through the events of the day.

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<v Speaker 2>I can. It was a very, very bizarre from my

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<v Speaker 2>point of view, I have to say. So what happened

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<v Speaker 2>is that around fifteen hundred people were scheduled to appear

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<v Speaker 2>or with hearings for them were scheduled at Westminster Magistrate's

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<v Speaker 2>Court today. So those are people who have been charged

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<v Speaker 2>under Section thirteen, largely of the Terrorism Act for holding

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<v Speaker 2>up signs. Fifteen hundred people is a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>to process through the court in a single day. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>it was just an administrative moment, but even so, that's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of administration to do in a single day,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a real indication of actually like the size

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<v Speaker 2>of the problem that's going to be facing the court,

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<v Speaker 2>because of course you have the administrative hearings, but then

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<v Speaker 2>you have the actual ones that come a bit further

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<v Speaker 2>down the road. Those hearings were then apparently canceled. Letters

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<v Speaker 2>were written to a law firm saying, please advise your

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<v Speaker 2>clients that the hearings are no longer taking place, have

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<v Speaker 2>been postponed to all October. Other people got the most

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<v Speaker 2>crazy contradictory caf gesque letters. You can imagine where it

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<v Speaker 2>said you might at the top of the letter you

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<v Speaker 2>must attend this hearing, and then further down you must

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<v Speaker 2>attend this hearing, and then a little bit low down

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<v Speaker 2>do not attend this hearing, or in a single letter.

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<v Speaker 2>And then having been told that the hearings were not

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<v Speaker 2>going to go ahead, suddenly they were relisted, and suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>it appeared that there were now over two thousand that

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<v Speaker 2>had been listed. And indeed, I have this document here

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<v Speaker 2>which is from Defender Juries. I haven't been able to

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<v Speaker 2>verify it myself. There are two thousand, one hundred hearings

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<v Speaker 2>on here which were all supposed to be processed today.

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<v Speaker 2>So what happened then was that defendel Juries obviously were

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<v Speaker 2>like well there's going to be there are these hearings.

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<v Speaker 2>Fifteen hundred people at the start we got supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>turn up, so let's do something there. And what they

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<v Speaker 2>planned to do was to erect a stage where there

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<v Speaker 2>would be sort of some poetry read, some statements made,

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<v Speaker 2>all as I understand it to be perfectly legal until

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<v Speaker 2>a certain point at which people would then do a

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<v Speaker 2>law breaking.

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<v Speaker 3>Action under the Terrorism Act.

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<v Speaker 2>Now some of you will have seen that I went

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<v Speaker 2>to New Scotland Yard earlier this month where it was

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<v Speaker 2>the first action where defendel Juria's kind of escalated their tactics.

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<v Speaker 2>So instead of holding up signs, which is a breach

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<v Speaker 2>of Section thirteen of the Terrorism Act, which carries a

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<v Speaker 2>six month sentence and can be dealt with in the

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<v Speaker 2>magistrate's court, they vocally expressed support for Palistine Action, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Indeed they encouraged.

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<v Speaker 2>And some express membership of Palisine Action, and they encouraged

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<v Speaker 2>the police to join the organized station as well, an

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<v Speaker 2>organization which by the way has been disbanded as far

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<v Speaker 2>as we know. So that carries that's the Section twelve violation,

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<v Speaker 2>and that carries fourteen years a maximum of fourteen year sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>And because it has such a hefty sentence. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of charge which has to be largely has to

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<v Speaker 2>be dealt with in the Crown Court, which should mean

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<v Speaker 2>a jury. So that was an escalation in tactics, which

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<v Speaker 2>would mean that, you know, the magistrates courts had been

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<v Speaker 2>sort of flooded with these Section thirteen offenses and now

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<v Speaker 2>they were going to go to start going in front

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<v Speaker 2>of juries and flooding the crown call what most people

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<v Speaker 2>think of it as a criminal court. So there was

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<v Speaker 2>some law breaking I understand that was planned for today

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<v Speaker 2>where people would do a similar thing deliberately breached Section

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<v Speaker 2>twelve of the Act.

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<v Speaker 3>The police put out.

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<v Speaker 2>A statement last night advising people not to do it,

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<v Speaker 2>that they would be making arrests they excuse me, cording

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<v Speaker 2>off an area around the magistrate's court where it was

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<v Speaker 2>an order in place not to be allowed to wear

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<v Speaker 2>face masks. None of these people, as far as like

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<v Speaker 2>aramb but ever wear face masked. But again it's sort

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, it really struck me when I saw

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<v Speaker 2>the police statement. I was like, you know, even the

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<v Speaker 2>police don't believe it's a terrorism, right, this is liked.

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<v Speaker 1>With Was it Harry who did interviews with the police

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<v Speaker 1>about this stuff, saying that they felt really kind of

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<v Speaker 1>awkward about doing the arrest.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Those were anonymous individual police officers. But this is like

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<v Speaker 2>the met as a kind of organization.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>If you think that there's.

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<v Speaker 2>Going to be literally perhaps the largest gathering of terror

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<v Speaker 2>offenders the country has ever seen outside of court, helicopters,

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<v Speaker 2>what teams, negotiators to negotiate, the signs out of their hands.

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<v Speaker 3>None of that occurred.

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<v Speaker 2>And then they come a batch in to do hostage

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<v Speaker 2>negotiations exactly. None of that occurred obviously, because you know, nobody,

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<v Speaker 2>not even the police, believes that these are these people

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<v Speaker 2>who are being charged under the Terrorism Act, are anything

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<v Speaker 2>like terrorists at all. So that was the setup to

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<v Speaker 2>what happened today, and then you know it all, it

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<v Speaker 2>all went a bit strange.

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<v Speaker 1>Well fair, fair enough, and also I believe you were

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<v Speaker 1>down at the events today, so we've got some footage

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<v Speaker 1>so we'll be able to show you not now. A

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<v Speaker 1>former government lawyer, Tim Crossend explained what the plan for

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<v Speaker 1>the process today had been.

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<v Speaker 5>We had a plan and the first part of that

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<v Speaker 5>plan was to have poems and songs in solidarity with

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<v Speaker 5>our brothers and sisters in Garzen. Police knew that was

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<v Speaker 5>the plan. I was asked by an officer earlier on

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<v Speaker 5>if you're going to do things like that, can you

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<v Speaker 5>please be the other side of that metal barrier. We

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<v Speaker 5>moved to the other side of that metal barrier, and

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<v Speaker 5>then two people came to put up a little podium,

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<v Speaker 5>and it really was a very very little podium that

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<v Speaker 5>side of the barrier. The purpose of that podium was

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<v Speaker 5>so that people reading their poems and speaking could be heard,

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<v Speaker 5>because you've got a big crowd here. Without that, you

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<v Speaker 5>can't be heard. As they were putting the barrier up,

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<v Speaker 5>that the podium up, they were handcuffed, handcuffed behind their back, arrested,

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<v Speaker 5>one dragged off in acute pain for putting up the

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<v Speaker 5>podium and the police saying you're being arrested under Section

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<v Speaker 5>twelve of the Terrorism Act. It was an opportunity for

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<v Speaker 5>people to read poems.

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<v Speaker 2>So setting up a stage is terrorism now?

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<v Speaker 5>Stage apparently is terrorism now. There was somebody without Once

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<v Speaker 5>the stage and the amplification were confiscated by the police,

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<v Speaker 5>someone stepped in just to try and get the attention

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<v Speaker 5>of people and to say we haven't got a stage.

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<v Speaker 5>We haven't got amplification. But the show's going to go on.

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<v Speaker 5>But she was arrested, and I heard a police officer

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<v Speaker 5>say she must be the organizer. I happen to know

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<v Speaker 5>she's not an organizer, right. She was arrested and handcuffed

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<v Speaker 5>for saying, you know, essentially good morning to people to

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<v Speaker 5>get their attention, nothing more than that we're at a

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<v Speaker 5>point not just where you're you know, banned under a

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<v Speaker 5>Public Order Act for trying to speak about Gaza. You

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<v Speaker 5>are a terrorist if you are trying to draw attention

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<v Speaker 5>to the genocide that takes place. The only way not

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<v Speaker 5>to be a terrorist is either to express support for

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<v Speaker 5>the genocide and the burning up of our planet, or

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<v Speaker 5>to be silent about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen also asked Corosland about the escalation and defend our

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<v Speaker 1>Juries' tactics.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, so you could say the court system has sort

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<v Speaker 5>of fallen at the first hurdle here. This was meant

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<v Speaker 5>to be a simple administrative hearing of a summary only offense,

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<v Speaker 5>and it is chaos. Couldn't even get a message to

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<v Speaker 5>people that they've been in a German But as you say,

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<v Speaker 5>people today being arrested under Section twelve for putting up

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<v Speaker 5>podiums for planning to read poems, not even actually reading

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<v Speaker 5>the poems were Section twelve is jury trial, Crown court

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<v Speaker 5>trial up to fourteen years imprisonment. And this is at

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<v Speaker 5>the same time that Andy Burnham and his government is

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<v Speaker 5>dealing with a crisis about people convicted of violent offenses

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<v Speaker 5>being released early from prison are apparently to make way

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<v Speaker 5>for pensioners who were planning to read poems. The sort

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<v Speaker 5>of situation we've got now, fifty nine year old white

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<v Speaker 5>women are the average terrorist pensioner of conscience, So the

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<v Speaker 5>average terrorists, yes, how.

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<v Speaker 3>Dare they get a conspiracy to commit poetry? Potentially? I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty quickly police started arresting those who had come down

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<v Speaker 1>to the court, but it wasn't very clear.

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<v Speaker 2>Why what section have you been arrested under.

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<v Speaker 6>Section twelve just for being here? I haven't even said

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<v Speaker 6>any words. I've just been arrested for Section twelve for

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<v Speaker 6>sitting on the pavement with not saying anything or displaying

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<v Speaker 6>any article.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you're not wearing you're not holding a sign,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not wearing anything that would be a Section thirteen breach.

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<v Speaker 6>Me no ground for arrest whatsoever. And I can't wait

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<v Speaker 6>to get my wrongful arrest play out from the police.

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<v Speaker 2>Have the police explained to you what sub section of

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<v Speaker 2>section twelve you you're been arrested under.

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<v Speaker 6>You can ask this lady here.

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<v Speaker 2>Officers, what part of section twelve is the arrest outrageous?

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<v Speaker 6>She doesn't want to tell us.

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<v Speaker 2>You weren't chanting anything, You didn't say anything.

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<v Speaker 7>Apped.

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<v Speaker 8>I clapped.

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<v Speaker 6>That was it.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what you were expecting when you sat down

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<v Speaker 2>on the pavements day.

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<v Speaker 9>Absolutely not.

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<v Speaker 6>I is here just to watch.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're about to get lifted away. How are you

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<v Speaker 2>feeling about that?

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<v Speaker 1>Defiant?

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<v Speaker 2>Any message for the government.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't stop this before late, stop this slide into

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<v Speaker 6>authoritarianism before it's too late.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 10>This is crazy, absolutely crazy.

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<v Speaker 3>You're going to discate the shoulders. What's the matter with you?

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<v Speaker 2>Haven't you ever done any manual handling training?

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<v Speaker 11>Shame on you you.

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<v Speaker 12>I'm not holding a placard. I have not breached the

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<v Speaker 12>law in any way on what basis? Under what law

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<v Speaker 12>are you arresting me? No, you've said Section twelve. Under

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<v Speaker 12>what section of section twelve are you arresting me? Please

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<v Speaker 12>be specific? I have not broken the law under what

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<v Speaker 12>parts of section twelve. Are you arresting me?

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<v Speaker 3>What?

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<v Speaker 2>What section is she being arrested under?

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<v Speaker 12>But what?

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<v Speaker 3>But what?

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<v Speaker 2>But what was her what was her expression of support?

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<v Speaker 13>I am not commissioned an offense.

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<v Speaker 2>You tell me what section?

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<v Speaker 12>Not telling me under what part of section two?

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<v Speaker 4>You need law?

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<v Speaker 3>Anyone?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm signing him yourself?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh not?

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<v Speaker 1>The Free Speech Union are saying about this, Stephen, when

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<v Speaker 1>they'll talk about the the fact people are getting arrested

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<v Speaker 1>for claps apparently, Now, I wonder if when we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>the screen about the movie went towards you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>policing of speech from people like that. No, no, so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know when that might happen anyway, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this is clearly a much higher threshold for arrests than

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen previously.

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<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, I mean, you know, look, I was there

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<v Speaker 2>when many of those arrests happened, and in fact, I

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<v Speaker 2>was interviewing somebody when I suddenly saw the police begin

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<v Speaker 2>arresting people. And I hadn't seen a single sign. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that's that cost normally in these protests is

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<v Speaker 2>when the signs come out that the arrests begin. But

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't seen any signs then behind me that second

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<v Speaker 2>woman started to get arrested, and so I broke off

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<v Speaker 2>the interview to go and talk to her and film it.

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<v Speaker 2>And the claim I heard from some of the crowd

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<v Speaker 2>was that the police had said that they had been

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<v Speaker 2>chanting something, something that was prescribed. Now, there may have

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<v Speaker 2>been some chanting at another part of the of the

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<v Speaker 2>sort of area that I was in, I didn't I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't hear it, and I certainly didn't hear it anywhere

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<v Speaker 2>near me. And you know, look, those two women both

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<v Speaker 2>said they were They didn't say anything, they didn't change anything,

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't holding anything. They clearly weren't holding anything. And

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<v Speaker 2>the really important point here is that they have absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>no reason to lie about that, because the whole point

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<v Speaker 2>of being there for purposes of breaking the law is

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<v Speaker 2>to get arrested for breaking that that law, and breaking

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<v Speaker 2>the law for them is an act of conscience which

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<v Speaker 2>they do in order to preserve what they take to

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<v Speaker 2>be well, in order to oppose what they take to

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<v Speaker 2>be a huge degradation of our civil liberties when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to speech, when it comes to gathering assembly, and

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<v Speaker 2>also when it comes to direct action, which is how

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<v Speaker 2>they regard you know, palasine action. There's a direct action group,

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<v Speaker 2>one in a very long tradition of direct action, so

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<v Speaker 2>they have no reason to lie. So I don't really

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think when those women said we weren't doing anything,

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<v Speaker 2>we're literally just clapped that that you know, there's there's

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely no reason to disbelieve them. As far as I'm

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<v Speaker 2>concerned now, whether clapping is now supporting a terrorist group

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<v Speaker 2>is a really good question, because perhaps somebody did chant

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<v Speaker 2>somebody and they clapped, and that clap councers a support

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<v Speaker 2>for their statement, which was a support a statement in support.

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<v Speaker 3>For a terrorist group.

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<v Speaker 2>It will be unimaginable to me if that is the

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<v Speaker 2>threshold the police are now applying. What if somebody nods

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<v Speaker 2>their head, is that going to be support for a

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<v Speaker 2>prescribed organization? Well, if you're just like walking across the

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<v Speaker 2>street talking on the bone and you say yes very

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<v Speaker 2>loudly as somebody somebody's you know, makes a statement about

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<v Speaker 2>Palisine action, it is loop de lou, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think you know a few years ago

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<v Speaker 2>this situation. Where as as as Tim Crosston, or as

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<v Speaker 2>I said, maybe when I talked to Tim Croston, where

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the average terrorist in this country is a

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<v Speaker 2>fifty nine year old white woman who holds up a

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<v Speaker 2>sign or who now who sits down and claps or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is is proximate in some way to someone

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<v Speaker 2>who says something would have been completely unimaginable literally literally.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, unfortunately, Shabana Mahmood's pronoctocon shall continue until morale improves.

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<v Speaker 3>Or the sharp and optaicon shall we call it now.

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<v Speaker 1>At one point, our producer Jack tried to get some

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<v Speaker 1>answers from the police, but why people were being arrested?

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<v Speaker 3>If I sit down, will you arrest me? What's the

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<v Speaker 3>answer to that?

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<v Speaker 9>Opposite? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 14>Why not?

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<v Speaker 2>Just another reason why we arrested? So why have other

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<v Speaker 2>people been arrested for certain game today?

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<v Speaker 3>You'd love to ask them.

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<v Speaker 5>I'd have to ask the people who are being arrested

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<v Speaker 5>why they've been arrested.

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<v Speaker 3>It doesn't seem a great deal logic to that officer.

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<v Speaker 1>The professionalism of the Metropolitan Police on full display yet again.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the police say one hundred and seventeen people were

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<v Speaker 1>arrested today under a combination of Section twelve and thirteen charges.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think the impact of all of this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be?

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen I mean, I think there's actually no no telling

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<v Speaker 2>I would say something about that interaction between Jack and

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<v Speaker 2>that police officer. You know, I don't think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>failure of professionalism on the part of the police there.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's actually not knowing what it is that

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<v Speaker 2>they're supposed to be doing, like it being completely mystifying

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<v Speaker 2>even to the officers there. The reason they can't answer

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<v Speaker 2>the question is because they don't know. I really believe

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<v Speaker 2>why it is that they're arresting these so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing something. They're around, you know, someone who's saying

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<v Speaker 2>something that they shouldn't be saying, which is a prescribed statement,

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<v Speaker 2>but they do not know what the threshold is themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>And I suspect that the police are just under you know,

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<v Speaker 2>from from some chame some from some some some parts

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<v Speaker 2>parts of government, perhaps un there's some pressure to continue

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<v Speaker 2>doing what is actually a form of madness, like literally

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<v Speaker 2>like insane asylum sort of stuff, because what's going to

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<v Speaker 2>happen is that all the what many of those people

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<v Speaker 2>I think will who were arrested today will win, will

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<v Speaker 2>win conversation for false arrests because I don't I find

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<v Speaker 2>it very hard for the police to find very hard

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<v Speaker 2>to see how the police are going to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to maintain a position that actually they were expressing support

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<v Speaker 2>for a prescribed group when I don't think anybody saw it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know and to disbelieve them, but defending juries

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<v Speaker 2>is obviously going to continue to escalate its tactics. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I was there in the summer when last

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<v Speaker 2>summer when the small not the small, when the sign

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<v Speaker 2>protests began in very small numbers, and I saw it

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<v Speaker 2>go from fifty to five hundred to one thousand to

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen hundred, you know, just just a step by step

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<v Speaker 2>by set, more and more people were prepared to break

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<v Speaker 2>the law in order to stand against the prescription of

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<v Speaker 2>palasine action. When I was at Scotland Yard, I think

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<v Speaker 2>there were maybe eleven people who did the escalatory thing

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<v Speaker 2>of a Section twelve breach. I know one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>seventeen people were arrested today according to the met That's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people, and that's you know, tenfold what

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<v Speaker 2>we saw just a month ago. That if those charges

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<v Speaker 2>go through the Crown Court, I don't know how they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to deal with them, because you know, the Crown

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<v Speaker 2>Court is already extremely packed, extremely busy, falling apart. People

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<v Speaker 2>were saying, we have to get rid of juries because

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to doing cases fast enough of Andy

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<v Speaker 2>Burnham has abandoned that apparently, so that's that's good. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>really this is going to take some kind of government

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<v Speaker 2>change of heart. And you know, Andy Burnham is now

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<v Speaker 2>in charge. He must be looking at this, he must

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<v Speaker 2>be thinking this is kind of idiotic. I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>this on my record. I don't want Ivett Cooper's I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say it's you know, stupidity to be

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<v Speaker 2>amar on my time as he.

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<v Speaker 1>Wants to focus on bus prices and on the cost

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<v Speaker 1>of living and domestic policy, and having to have his

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<v Speaker 1>hands tied up by previous silly decisions made by former

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<v Speaker 1>members of the government are only going to distract him

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<v Speaker 1>from this kind of true thing is he actually wants

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<v Speaker 1>to get done in this country, especially when you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like he'd already wants to scrap the jury reforms. I

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<v Speaker 1>believe that was briefed out by somebody else from the

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<v Speaker 1>government because again they don't want to have to deal

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<v Speaker 1>with constitutional reform that distracts from the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>That people will be strongly strongly opposed to as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Curious stuff is doing viral internationally.

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<v Speaker 1>Carlson is talking about, you know, people getting arrested for

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<v Speaker 1>holding science's port Palestine.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a situation that we're.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and then we just say something about Shabanamamud, whos

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<v Speaker 2>saw the Home Secretary and you know, for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 2>has decided that she would like her name plastered all

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<v Speaker 2>over this mess as well. If you want to do

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<v Speaker 2>law and order, which I think is something that she

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<v Speaker 2>does want to do, what you don't want to do

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<v Speaker 2>is cram the courts with pensioners and retired people and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, peace nicks and students who are protesting. You

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to see thousands of people in the Crown court.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think, you know, I don't know, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's obviously a bigger undertaking of the fourteen year sentence

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<v Speaker 2>attached to a section twelve breach. But I think that

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<v Speaker 2>there will probably be a lot of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>prepared to do it because they feel so strongly about

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<v Speaker 2>the danger of this prescription and the kind of slippery

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<v Speaker 2>slope that it creates. I think they're right to feel

401
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:51.319
<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So if this was a country in the global salad

403
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:55.519
<v Speaker 1>there would be admonished by the global law for doing things.

404
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<v Speaker 1>But you know, under the guise of being a quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote liberal democracy.

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<v Speaker 3>These able get away with it. Seeven, think you're very

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<v Speaker 3>much for joining me today. Thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that has been some other Palastine Action news today.

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<v Speaker 1>A Palasine Action co founder who Amuri has been given

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<v Speaker 1>permission to appeal the prescription at the Supreme Court today.

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<v Speaker 1>That hearing will take place in the autumn, with a

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<v Speaker 1>Mare saying this. The Supreme Court's decision to grant permission

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<v Speaker 1>to appeal comes as hundreds more ordinary people are arrested

414
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<v Speaker 1>today under terror laws simpler for saying they oppose genocide

415
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<v Speaker 1>and support Palestine Action, adding to the more than three

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<v Speaker 1>and a half thousand arrests to date with this entirely

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<v Speaker 1>peaceful protest. Many more reportedly arrested today despite not expressing

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<v Speaker 1>support for Palasine Action, including people who are simply setting

419
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<v Speaker 1>up a stage or reading poems about Gaza. This further

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<v Speaker 1>evidence is our case that the prescription of Palatine Action

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<v Speaker 1>has become a vehicle for a far broader crackdown on

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<v Speaker 1>expressions of solidarity with.

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<v Speaker 3>The Palestinian people.

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<v Speaker 1>Dahlia this all seems a little bit like that it

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<v Speaker 1>is going to presumably push this back up the new

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<v Speaker 1>story again. I get mister Aliberden Plead doesn't want yeah.

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<v Speaker 14>And I think it's interesting that we've gotten that we're

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<v Speaker 14>in a position now where it is going to go

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<v Speaker 14>to the Supreme Court. I was checked Stephen earlier today

430
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.519
<v Speaker 14>and he's suggested that this was because I think Burnham

431
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.799
<v Speaker 14>is a lot savvier than than perhaps we might think,

432
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:12.960
<v Speaker 14>and it's a way for him to kind of get

433
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.240
<v Speaker 14>this off the table in terms of the media, the

434
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:20.279
<v Speaker 14>news as a news item, and you know, but do

435
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:25.240
<v Speaker 14>it without being seen to show political support for you know,

436
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.920
<v Speaker 14>not arresting like thousands of pensioners for holding up a

437
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:33.039
<v Speaker 14>sign because it doesn't look good. And you know, kind

438
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.720
<v Speaker 14>of overall on what this means going forward for us,

439
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:41.000
<v Speaker 14>you know, I don't like to necessarily say, oh, gosh,

440
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.000
<v Speaker 14>you know, we're becoming like authoritarian regimes, because it kind

441
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.319
<v Speaker 14>of suggests that Britain has been this like innocent bastion

442
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.519
<v Speaker 14>of liberalism and it would never dream of sowing the

443
00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.640
<v Speaker 14>seeds for authoritarianism globally, when actually that is kind of

444
00:22:54.720 --> 00:23:00.160
<v Speaker 14>what it's done for its at least recent history. But

445
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.279
<v Speaker 14>I do think that we need to understand that what

446
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.119
<v Speaker 14>is being done today to the defend our Juries protesters

447
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.319
<v Speaker 14>and also to the Palestine Action protesters is.

448
00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:16.400
<v Speaker 13>Like, bit for bit, directly out.

449
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:20.200
<v Speaker 14>Of the playbook of any government that we would broadly

450
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 14>consider to be authoritarian. So, you know, whether you're talking

451
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.640
<v Speaker 14>about Russia, whether you're talking about China, this use of

452
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:29.559
<v Speaker 14>anti terror law in order to crack down on political dissent.

453
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.440
<v Speaker 14>You know, when when the Russian government closes down all

454
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.000
<v Speaker 14>independent media, it doesn't say we're doing this because we

455
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.720
<v Speaker 14>don't believe in a free press and because this is

456
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.400
<v Speaker 14>an authoritarian regime. They say, we're shutting down these media

457
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:45.799
<v Speaker 14>outlets because they are supportive of terror, you know, or

458
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.400
<v Speaker 14>they are they are sympathetic to terrorism.

459
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:49.319
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

460
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.000
<v Speaker 14>And you know, we have to and we have to

461
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.519
<v Speaker 14>ask ourselves why is it that the government is so

462
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:01.519
<v Speaker 14>fixed and hell bent on pursuing the specific crime or

463
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.240
<v Speaker 14>allegation of terrorism. Because you know, if you want to

464
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:07.160
<v Speaker 14>lock up the Palestine Action protesters, if you want to

465
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:10.119
<v Speaker 14>punish them for what they've done, there are laws in

466
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.839
<v Speaker 14>which you could have done that under you know, criminal damage.

467
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.759
<v Speaker 14>They could have just you know, raised the charge of

468
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.119
<v Speaker 14>criminal damage. It probably would have gone through a lot

469
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.839
<v Speaker 14>more easily without as much controversy. But they are going

470
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:26.720
<v Speaker 14>specifically after terror legislation for multiple reasons. The first one

471
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.400
<v Speaker 14>is because when you bring something under the purview of

472
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.440
<v Speaker 14>terrorism of terror legislation, it almost exists outside of normal

473
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.480
<v Speaker 14>legal reality. So like all of these principles that we

474
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:42.559
<v Speaker 14>have built up over many years, whether it's around you know,

475
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.759
<v Speaker 14>state surveillance, or around detention, or around the right to

476
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 14>private legal advice, all of these things suddenly exit the building.

477
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.240
<v Speaker 14>And so it's a way for the government to be

478
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:00.240
<v Speaker 14>able to basically get around the pesky fact of core

479
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:05.400
<v Speaker 14>legal rights and core legal frameworks. And so, you know,

480
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.839
<v Speaker 14>and that's something that people are willing to accept, you know,

481
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:14.720
<v Speaker 14>the idea that we would suspend normal due process when

482
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.720
<v Speaker 14>we're talking about when we're in the aftermath of massive

483
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 14>attacks where lots of people have died because people are

484
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:22.200
<v Speaker 14>scared and angry and.

485
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.000
<v Speaker 13>Traumatized.

486
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.279
<v Speaker 14>And those of us who have sort of been ringing

487
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.160
<v Speaker 14>the alarm on this on this crackdown of civil liberties

488
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:34.119
<v Speaker 14>in the name of the counter terror were always very

489
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.240
<v Speaker 14>unpopular for doing that because it was seen as not

490
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:39.319
<v Speaker 14>having compassion for victims, or it was seen as as

491
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.000
<v Speaker 14>not taking terrorism seriously or the pain that has been

492
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:46.200
<v Speaker 14>caused of it seriously. But this is exactly why, because

493
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.000
<v Speaker 14>what happens is when you expand the category of terrorism,

494
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:54.319
<v Speaker 14>you expand the rema of the government to basically bypass

495
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 14>traditional legal protections, and then you can also introduce this

496
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 14>secondary crime of supporting a terror organization, which and that's

497
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.519
<v Speaker 14>when we get into the.

498
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:07.359
<v Speaker 13>Territory of thought crime.

499
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.839
<v Speaker 14>That's when we get into the territory of people being

500
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:14.519
<v Speaker 14>criminalized for things that they think or ideologies they might hold.

501
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.759
<v Speaker 14>And there's no other existing legal framework other than maybe

502
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:21.279
<v Speaker 14>hate speech framework to really persecute people for what they

503
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.599
<v Speaker 14>think and or if they dissent in their thought against

504
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.319
<v Speaker 14>what the government perhaps wants. Whereas when you introduce this

505
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:31.799
<v Speaker 14>idea of supporting a terror organization as being something punishable

506
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 14>by years in prison or that opens you up to

507
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.839
<v Speaker 14>being surveilled by the government, to having your devices seized,

508
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:43.000
<v Speaker 14>to having your right to privacy compromise. Then suddenly, through

509
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 14>the back door, we have a crackdown on freedom of association,

510
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 14>freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and freedom of the press.

511
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 14>And so it has been a drip feed. But it

512
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.440
<v Speaker 14>is not surprising to me that this is where we

513
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.400
<v Speaker 14>have ended up twenty five years after the entry reduction,

514
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.240
<v Speaker 14>after the amendment of the cat Terror legislation.

515
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.119
<v Speaker 1>And like, how different is this to like Marco Rubio

516
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.519
<v Speaker 1>exploiting this stuff for the NSPM seven to crack down

517
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:10.640
<v Speaker 1>on people who they say a terrorist things, to expunge

518
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.400
<v Speaker 1>from society basically in terms of their organization. It's really

519
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.440
<v Speaker 1>really damaging to the social fabric. The children of the

520
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:19.400
<v Speaker 1>UK lead normal lives and guaranteed access to an education

521
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:21.720
<v Speaker 1>is a privilege some of us take for granted. For

522
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:23.799
<v Speaker 1>the children and for the teenagers of Gaza, it's a

523
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 1>very different story. Even with the so called ceasefire broken

524
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>between Israel and the Palestinian resistance, bombs continue to rain

525
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.440
<v Speaker 1>down on the enclave. This means that even the idea

526
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.920
<v Speaker 1>of studying as well beyond many Gazans who are desperate

527
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to go back to their lives before Israel's genocide began.

528
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.839
<v Speaker 1>Many countries across Europe have offered these people a lifeline

529
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.440
<v Speaker 1>programs to evacuate them from Gaza and bring them to

530
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Europe to study at some of the best universities in

531
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.119
<v Speaker 1>the world. However, for these gifted students to be able

532
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.160
<v Speaker 1>to come to Britain, they either need to have full

533
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:53.079
<v Speaker 1>scholarships or to be able to fund themselves, something that's

534
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.000
<v Speaker 1>impossible for them to achieve given the extortionate cost of

535
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.119
<v Speaker 1>the subsistence. In the besieged enclave, from which ninety five

536
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 1>percent are high, educational buildings have been destroyed or damaged. Luckily,

537
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.640
<v Speaker 1>some celebrities have tried to come to the rescue. Twenty

538
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:09.359
<v Speaker 1>UK celebs have banded together with the Phoenix based charity

539
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 1>to organize a charity auction to be able to raise

540
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 1>money to fund these students' costs to come here to study.

541
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 1>Juliete Stevenson, star of films like Truly, Madly, Deeply and

542
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:20.519
<v Speaker 1>Bend It like Beckham, as well as many many stage productions,

543
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:22.960
<v Speaker 1>is one of those donating items to the auction, and

544
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.799
<v Speaker 1>she joins me now to discuss the initiative. Juliet welcome

545
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.319
<v Speaker 1>to the show. It's lovely to have you, Hi, good

546
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 1>to be here, absolutely absolutely, Now, why was it important

547
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:32.920
<v Speaker 1>for you to get involved with this project?

548
00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:36.000
<v Speaker 9>Well, for all the reasons you've just said.

549
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.920
<v Speaker 10>You know, we take for granted that our kids or

550
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:42.480
<v Speaker 10>the students across the country, you know, from eighteen onwards

551
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 10>are able to access you know, tertiary education and follow

552
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 10>their dreams.

553
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:48.720
<v Speaker 9>And study and so on.

554
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.839
<v Speaker 10>But the students in Gaza have already been through a

555
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:56.119
<v Speaker 10>sort of hellish three years of the entire infrastructure of

556
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.400
<v Speaker 10>their education being destroyed. All seven Guards and university have

557
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:06.599
<v Speaker 10>been destroyed, libraries, you know, precious equipment, study spaces and

558
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 10>so on, and people have been living in hunger, fear, grief, rage,

559
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.160
<v Speaker 10>and so many of these students have tried really hard

560
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:17.839
<v Speaker 10>to continue their studies. We have a situation now in

561
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.119
<v Speaker 10>which over two hundred of them have been offered places

562
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.559
<v Speaker 10>by top British universities, which is fantastic and the fact

563
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 10>they have done this, these students have achieved these places

564
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.200
<v Speaker 10>not through any kind of charitable avenue, but because they

565
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.200
<v Speaker 10>have earned these places through academic merit, and on top

566
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.519
<v Speaker 10>of which, you know, they've had to do this in

567
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:44.359
<v Speaker 10>incredible circumstances. We've heard stories of students climbing up mountains

568
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 10>of rubble to try and reach a little bit of

569
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.519
<v Speaker 10>Wi Fi signal, endangering themselves in the line of sniper

570
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:53.440
<v Speaker 10>fire of the Israeli The idea for or drone fire

571
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:56.359
<v Speaker 10>just to get a bit of Wi Fi to send

572
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.839
<v Speaker 10>their application into a university. One student crossed a very

573
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 10>very dangerous territory to get to a temporary WiFi hub

574
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.240
<v Speaker 10>to sit an entrance exam, only for that Wi Fi

575
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.119
<v Speaker 10>to collapse halfway through his exam. So it's just extraordinarily

576
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.279
<v Speaker 10>moving to think of what they've been through. But anyway,

577
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.319
<v Speaker 10>they have over two hundred have these places, but the

578
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.400
<v Speaker 10>British government, as you said, are saying that they can

579
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:23.720
<v Speaker 10>come only if they have fully funded scholarships. How is

580
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.519
<v Speaker 10>a Gazan student supposed to do that? You know, people

581
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:28.960
<v Speaker 10>are starving in Gaza. They haven't got the money to

582
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.039
<v Speaker 10>feed their families, let alone pay these large sums. And

583
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 10>we're talking about a minimum of seventeen thousand pounds per student.

584
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 10>So just as a start, and we hope it will

585
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 10>be make a big substantial contribution.

586
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.839
<v Speaker 9>Some of us have got together this auction.

587
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.160
<v Speaker 10>What's Phoenix Space is the wonderful charity who have organized

588
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.319
<v Speaker 10>this auction. And originally the idea was that we should

589
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:54.920
<v Speaker 10>all donate an item that meant something to us from

590
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 10>our own education.

591
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 9>So I've given a book of poetry about poetry that

592
00:30:59.559 --> 00:30:59.960
<v Speaker 9>I've had.

593
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:02.400
<v Speaker 10>I got it as a prize when I was at

594
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:05.039
<v Speaker 10>school when I was about fifteen, and I've had it

595
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 10>on my bookshelves ever since. So I've donated that. But

596
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.920
<v Speaker 10>then after a while some celebrities said, well, I don't

597
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 10>have anything from my school days, so they have just

598
00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 10>been free then to donate all sorts of amazing things.

599
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.640
<v Speaker 10>So Gary Lineker is donating a football T shirt that

600
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:25.400
<v Speaker 10>I think he's signed, Vanessa Redgraves donating a very valuable necklace.

601
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.839
<v Speaker 10>There's lots and lots of different things in the auction

602
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.480
<v Speaker 10>and we hope to raise a really substantial sum of

603
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.559
<v Speaker 10>money for these students so they can get to Britain

604
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:33.960
<v Speaker 10>to take up their places.

605
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Given all the difficulties you just mentioned there in terms

606
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.319
<v Speaker 1>of the Garden's ability to generate the funds themselves to

607
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.319
<v Speaker 1>be able to come to the case of study, why

608
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:44.160
<v Speaker 1>do you think the government havn't stumped up some of

609
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the money themselves.

610
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.839
<v Speaker 10>Well, I mean, look at what this government's relationship to

611
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.880
<v Speaker 10>Palestine and Tagaza has been for you know, since since

612
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.599
<v Speaker 10>the genocide began. I mean, we have been horrifically complicit

613
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:59.640
<v Speaker 10>in this genocide. We have continued to sell arms to Israel.

614
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.599
<v Speaker 10>That has not stopped. We are still selling arms as well.

615
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.799
<v Speaker 10>We are still selling parts for the thirty five bombers

616
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:10.000
<v Speaker 10>that you know are the very bombers that are projected

617
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:12.799
<v Speaker 10>onto the people of Gaza and that have been responsible

618
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.519
<v Speaker 10>now for over seventy five thousand deaths, including twenty two

619
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.599
<v Speaker 10>thousand children according to reports on the ground. So we

620
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.359
<v Speaker 10>are in many ways colluding. We have colluded, and this

621
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.880
<v Speaker 10>government has had a shocking and shameful record in relation

622
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:28.880
<v Speaker 10>to Gaza.

623
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:32.319
<v Speaker 9>We very very much welcome that the Home Office have.

624
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.079
<v Speaker 10>Changed the visa application system so that students no longer

625
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 10>have to produce biometric data, which was the case a

626
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 10>year ago.

627
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:42.519
<v Speaker 9>And now they don't have to do that. So the

628
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.319
<v Speaker 9>Home Office has.

629
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.440
<v Speaker 10>Moved in the right direction, but it's slightly it's sort

630
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.359
<v Speaker 10>of torturous to say to these students you've got to

631
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.480
<v Speaker 10>produce these large sums of money, because there's no way

632
00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.400
<v Speaker 10>they can do that. So if the government is not

633
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.160
<v Speaker 10>going to change their view on this, and we would

634
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.160
<v Speaker 10>appeal to them to do so, but if they're not,

635
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 10>then we are asking everybody who's hearing this to either

636
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:05.519
<v Speaker 10>go to the auction and bid for something or else

637
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 10>to donate. I mean, if you don't want any of

638
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.640
<v Speaker 10>the auction items, that's fine, but please please make a contribution,

639
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:13.680
<v Speaker 10>however small, and let's see just how much money we

640
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:15.759
<v Speaker 10>can raise for these students if the government are not

641
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:16.920
<v Speaker 10>going to change their policy.

642
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:19.240
<v Speaker 3>Now, I've got to ask you.

643
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Now we do have like a new Prime Minister and

644
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:24.799
<v Speaker 1>one who has obviously been a little bit more kind

645
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>of forthright and in terms of apologizing for labor slow

646
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.680
<v Speaker 1>and painful response to the genocide, what kind of action

647
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:32.359
<v Speaker 1>would you further like to see from Andy Burnham now

648
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>that we've gotten someone new at the helm.

649
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.240
<v Speaker 10>I mean, yes, I welcome the apology, but apology is

650
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.680
<v Speaker 10>completely meaningless unless it's put into action.

651
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.519
<v Speaker 9>You know, now is not the time for words.

652
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.799
<v Speaker 10>We need words needs to be followed up by action

653
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.400
<v Speaker 10>and a complete change of policy. So the first thing

654
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.960
<v Speaker 10>I would ask urge Andy Burnham to do is to

655
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:51.960
<v Speaker 10>stop selling ams to Israel. I. Mean, that is the

656
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.480
<v Speaker 10>obvious one. We should be employing sanctions towards Israeli government,

657
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:59.000
<v Speaker 10>you know, because that is the only way we will

658
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.720
<v Speaker 10>really hit them is by by sanctions, and you know,

659
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:07.279
<v Speaker 10>boycotting and divestment. We have, you know, hundreds and hundreds

660
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 10>of British industries who are deeply implicated in commerce.

661
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:11.719
<v Speaker 9>And trade with Israel.

662
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:13.920
<v Speaker 10>And the only way anything will work really is if

663
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.519
<v Speaker 10>we stand up and first of all stop selling arms

664
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 10>and then and then hit them commercially, because I think that's, honestly,

665
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:24.599
<v Speaker 10>you know, one of the most effective ways we can

666
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.239
<v Speaker 10>we can make our feelings felt. But I mean, and

667
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 10>Andy Burnham is going to have to stand up and

668
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:33.039
<v Speaker 10>resist a very very powerful lobby which will be pressurizing

669
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:33.599
<v Speaker 10>him not to.

670
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:34.920
<v Speaker 9>You know, when I heard.

671
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:39.719
<v Speaker 10>Your previous your previous reporter talking about why this terrorist

672
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:42.280
<v Speaker 10>legislation has got as far as it has, I mean,

673
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.199
<v Speaker 10>I do agree with her. But what she didn't say,

674
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.119
<v Speaker 10>which I would say is the most significant thing, is

675
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:50.039
<v Speaker 10>that there is an extraordinarily influential and powerful lobby in

676
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 10>this country that has argued and has in fact drawn

677
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.320
<v Speaker 10>up that legislation. And it's the same lobby who is

678
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 10>urging you know, this government and Starmer's government to support

679
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:06.760
<v Speaker 10>the Israeli government in spite of this mass slaughter of

680
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.880
<v Speaker 10>its people. And so Burnham needs to stand up to

681
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.119
<v Speaker 10>that lobby. He needs to you know, access his moral

682
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.119
<v Speaker 10>muscle and make decisions that are about what he really

683
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 10>believes in and not is what he's doing to please

684
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:25.000
<v Speaker 10>a lobby that really has it's you know, which has

685
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:26.960
<v Speaker 10>has a lot of blood on its hands.

686
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:28.159
<v Speaker 3>We'll see.

687
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.599
<v Speaker 1>For the last almost three years now, we saw the

688
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 1>destruction of Gaza, the looting of the West Bank, the

689
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:36.599
<v Speaker 1>incursions in se Lebanon. I was on a personal level,

690
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.880
<v Speaker 1>have you had any in terms of your professional life,

691
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:40.599
<v Speaker 1>if you had any kind of backclash in terms of

692
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 1>your personal support for the Palestinian cause.

693
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.599
<v Speaker 10>I mean, obviously I get, you know, messages of hatred

694
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.679
<v Speaker 10>and so on, But I mean I've been working all

695
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:55.719
<v Speaker 10>the way through. I haven't you know, you don't know

696
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.840
<v Speaker 10>about the jobs you didn't get. You don't know about

697
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:01.000
<v Speaker 10>the people who don't want to employ you because my position.

698
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.760
<v Speaker 10>But to be absolutely honest, it doesn't really matter to me.

699
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 10>I know that I'm living through a period of I mean,

700
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.079
<v Speaker 10>we've never witnessed a live stream to genocide before.

701
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.519
<v Speaker 9>That's been said many times. I mean I have been.

702
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:17.119
<v Speaker 10>So sort of reshaped and altered by what I personally

703
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:18.719
<v Speaker 10>have lived through in the last three years, and many

704
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.719
<v Speaker 10>many people I know feel the same, we've lived through

705
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:26.239
<v Speaker 10>something horrific. What humanity can do. What the Israeli still

706
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.480
<v Speaker 10>just have done to the people of Palestine. They are

707
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:33.519
<v Speaker 10>still denying AID, they are still withholding baby formula milk

708
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:37.559
<v Speaker 10>when babies are starving in Gaza. You know, they're inflicting

709
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.639
<v Speaker 10>torture on Palestinian prisoners, they are murdering their healthcare workers,

710
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:47.760
<v Speaker 10>they are torturing and detaining incredibly heroic Palestinian doctors and

711
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.719
<v Speaker 10>surgeons who are just trying to save children's lives in Gaza,

712
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.440
<v Speaker 10>and what we have witnessed has been so horrific.

713
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.760
<v Speaker 9>So you know, really, when you ask yourself the big questions.

714
00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:59.639
<v Speaker 10>In life, what does it really matter my career as

715
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.480
<v Speaker 10>against those things, I just feel that we have one life,

716
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:05.639
<v Speaker 10>you know, and it's up to you to stand up

717
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:08.880
<v Speaker 10>and speak about what you believe in. And if that

718
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.400
<v Speaker 10>sounds sort of pompous or earnest, I'm not going to

719
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:12.840
<v Speaker 10>apologize for it because I.

720
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.519
<v Speaker 9>Just feel, you know, I just need my life.

721
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:17.840
<v Speaker 10>I need to align myself behind what I believe in

722
00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.320
<v Speaker 10>and then at least I feel I've done something with

723
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.760
<v Speaker 10>this life, you know, Otherwise I would not be able

724
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.599
<v Speaker 10>to look at myself in the mirror. Really, you know,

725
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.199
<v Speaker 10>I think many many more people need to be standing

726
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.000
<v Speaker 10>up now that we need to be naming these things.

727
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.320
<v Speaker 10>We need to be standing up, you know. I think,

728
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.559
<v Speaker 10>you know, you bullies can only win if you.

729
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:38.920
<v Speaker 9>Allow them to win. You need you need to, you know.

730
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.760
<v Speaker 10>I think there's so many ordinary people in Britain who

731
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:44.199
<v Speaker 10>have stood up, who've come out.

732
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.519
<v Speaker 9>Who have risked a lot to join the protests and.

733
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.360
<v Speaker 10>So on, and I meet them all the time, and

734
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.159
<v Speaker 10>it's a wonderful community. So I feel more supported by

735
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.239
<v Speaker 10>that community than I do feel threatened by those who

736
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:55.840
<v Speaker 10>oppose it.

737
00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:00.599
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely could not agree more with those kind of absolutely not.

738
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much for joining us statute. It's an

739
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:03.880
<v Speaker 1>absolute pleasure.

740
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:07.039
<v Speaker 9>Actually, thank you for having me now.

741
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Early today I also spoke to a sham Abudalu, one

742
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.280
<v Speaker 1>of the Garsen students offer a university place in fact

743
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>two places in the UK. She was in Gaza when

744
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:16.639
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to her, and I began by asking her

745
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 1>about her plans to come here and study.

746
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.320
<v Speaker 15>Coming to the UK just like a dream for me,

747
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:26.400
<v Speaker 15>especially nowadays with all situations happening here in Gaza and

748
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:30.119
<v Speaker 15>that the education is destroyed by all it means here

749
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:33.079
<v Speaker 15>in Gaza, there's no schools, no college, no where to

750
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:37.159
<v Speaker 15>study or nowhere to continue my education. So if I

751
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.639
<v Speaker 15>get to the UK, I would be able to continue

752
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.920
<v Speaker 15>my journey and to attend university in the UK which

753
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 15>has a very suitable environment for me to continue and

754
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:49.239
<v Speaker 15>to charle my dream there.

755
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 3>And how much money is it that you'd need to

756
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.480
<v Speaker 3>be able to raise.

757
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:55.599
<v Speaker 15>I don't know exactly the amount of money, but it's

758
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:59.079
<v Speaker 15>a lot amount of money we're student because in order

759
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.079
<v Speaker 15>to get for like the fund, you need to get

760
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:04.679
<v Speaker 15>for like the tuition fund and the other living experiment

761
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 15>in the UK. So it would cost a lot for

762
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 15>a student, like maybe fifteen pounds for like living expenses

763
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:12.840
<v Speaker 15>only a very year.

764
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>And obviously it is a technological based degree you're looking at.

765
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.239
<v Speaker 1>I think it's other technology from York or there's computer

766
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.480
<v Speaker 1>science at the University of Edinburgh that you've been accepted on. Obviously,

767
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.079
<v Speaker 1>so that you were dreamed to coming, to be able

768
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:25.880
<v Speaker 1>to study, to be able to get even more of

769
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.960
<v Speaker 1>an education. What kind of dreams were you looking to

770
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:30.920
<v Speaker 1>fulfill with these kind of qualifications.

771
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.559
<v Speaker 15>I got accepted in AI and commuter science of course

772
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 15>in the University of Edinburgh.

773
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:37.360
<v Speaker 9>So my pasion is.

774
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.760
<v Speaker 15>About tech and I've been dreaming about it since I

775
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.119
<v Speaker 15>was a child, because when I was in high school,

776
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.880
<v Speaker 15>I used to see my parents because most of them

777
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.559
<v Speaker 15>are commuter engineers. So I was enveloped in this since

778
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Speaker 15>I was a kid, and I started to love this

779
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:58.119
<v Speaker 15>and have more visionate about it, and then I started

780
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 15>to participate in practice in in this field. I joined

781
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:04.920
<v Speaker 15>the multiple clubs and brokerams and last one of them

782
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.760
<v Speaker 15>was before the war. I was selected in tich Girls,

783
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.559
<v Speaker 15>which is an exchange program that was healed in the

784
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:14.519
<v Speaker 15>United States. So it was like a big opportunity for

785
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.559
<v Speaker 15>me and I think that this is the opportunity that

786
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 15>made me what I am currently. So after that, when

787
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:26.079
<v Speaker 15>the war started and everything shattered, I couldn't complete my

788
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.159
<v Speaker 15>last year in high school and it got delayed for

789
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:33.440
<v Speaker 15>two years. And finally after a lot of obstacles, a

790
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:35.199
<v Speaker 15>lot of losing a lot of I lost a lot

791
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:39.480
<v Speaker 15>of people, I lost a lot of things in order

792
00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:43.519
<v Speaker 15>to be able to achieve this, and then I got

793
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:48.360
<v Speaker 15>my grade twelve degree and after that I was able

794
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:53.920
<v Speaker 15>to apply for colleges in the United Kingdom, and then

795
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:59.039
<v Speaker 15>I got accepted in my AI and guter science course

796
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 15>in Edinburgh, which is like a dream for me. So

797
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.880
<v Speaker 15>I feel like if I was able to get to

798
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:08.039
<v Speaker 15>the United States and to complete the United Kingdom sorry,

799
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:12.000
<v Speaker 15>and to complete this course and good this to Douma

800
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:16.840
<v Speaker 15>and get this, I will be able to get back

801
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:19.400
<v Speaker 15>to the like the knowledge and the technical knowledge, the

802
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:21.840
<v Speaker 15>technoledge of the knowledge that I will.

803
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:25.159
<v Speaker 13>Learn from the UK.

804
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:27.480
<v Speaker 15>I will get back to my country and to start

805
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:32.679
<v Speaker 15>and try actually to rebuild a gauza as we you

806
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:35.519
<v Speaker 15>used to know and even higher than this, because everything

807
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:39.480
<v Speaker 15>here is destroyed. So I will try to to make

808
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 15>our and take the thing that I gained from the

809
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 15>UK to my people here in Bossa, maybe to renew

810
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:53.800
<v Speaker 15>the educational sector or maybe the the health sector because

811
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:55.920
<v Speaker 15>everything is shuttered right now and destroyed.

812
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 1>One not kind of a broader question, how has the

813
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.400
<v Speaker 1>war in general effec not just your education, but the

814
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:02.480
<v Speaker 1>rest of your life as well.

815
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:06.440
<v Speaker 15>Basically, I feel like the war has affected my life

816
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.119
<v Speaker 15>in every point of it, starting from my home because

817
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.239
<v Speaker 15>my home got destroyed, so I'm basically now homeless, and

818
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:19.800
<v Speaker 15>they took away my family from me. I lost my mom, my,

819
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.679
<v Speaker 15>twin sisters, and my brother and I'm alone with my

820
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:29.119
<v Speaker 15>father and I Also when I lost my mom, I

821
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.679
<v Speaker 15>got injured and I was stuck under the rubble for

822
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:34.360
<v Speaker 15>three hours and I wasn't able to move for like

823
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.559
<v Speaker 15>a month because of this because I got injured in

824
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:38.000
<v Speaker 15>my leg.

825
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:39.960
<v Speaker 3>And also it.

826
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:44.519
<v Speaker 15>Has affected my mental health and also my physical health

827
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:48.159
<v Speaker 15>because after I lost my mom and after like everything

828
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.400
<v Speaker 15>was happening, because like I was living in this environment

829
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.920
<v Speaker 15>where there's not even a moment that I got to

830
00:42:56.480 --> 00:43:01.079
<v Speaker 15>stay like quiet and save like whenever I think something

831
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:04.480
<v Speaker 15>bad happened. So I was really insecure and I was

832
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:07.880
<v Speaker 15>really afraid, Like every moment I live here in Goza,

833
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:10.400
<v Speaker 15>I live it with fear that I would lost my

834
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 15>soul or anyone that I love in the next moment.

835
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.639
<v Speaker 15>So I was living in this for like three years

836
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 15>by now, and the suffer is continue and also not

837
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.480
<v Speaker 15>like even like the shelter and the food and the

838
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:29.320
<v Speaker 15>water were really hard to access, and even like the

839
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.119
<v Speaker 15>electricity and internet. It's really hard for me to even

840
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.280
<v Speaker 15>attend this intribute to it because there's no electricity and

841
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.440
<v Speaker 15>internet in my home. So I got to go to

842
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 15>a cafe to like internet cafe in order to attend

843
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:45.559
<v Speaker 15>this where I have to to pay like insanely pricing

844
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 15>price in order to get like an internet connection. And

845
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.519
<v Speaker 15>also I got to like work for miles. This is

846
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.440
<v Speaker 15>like for like my personal life and my educational life.

847
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:57.480
<v Speaker 15>It got affected me a lot because since we started,

848
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:02.719
<v Speaker 15>we stopped learning because they destroyed like the schools and

849
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:06.719
<v Speaker 15>they even called like teachers and professors. So it was

850
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.599
<v Speaker 15>really hard to continue my journey, like like my twelve

851
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:15.039
<v Speaker 15>my grade twelve, so I got to take like lessons

852
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:20.800
<v Speaker 15>online in order to complete this stage, and attending and

853
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.119
<v Speaker 15>even attending the classes were really difficult. So if you

854
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:27.159
<v Speaker 15>think about it, you could find the suffer in everything

855
00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.440
<v Speaker 15>like we do. And what really made me sad because

856
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:35.960
<v Speaker 15>these are like really simple things that everything everyone should have,

857
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.800
<v Speaker 15>Like it's all right, it's all ready to learn to

858
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:44.119
<v Speaker 15>live peacefully, to sleep at night without like waking up

859
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:48.440
<v Speaker 15>in like a horrible sound, and without having a bad

860
00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:49.960
<v Speaker 15>news about your loved one.

861
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:53.960
<v Speaker 9>So who are has traumatized me?

862
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:56.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, these are a lot of things that everyone

863
00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, outside of the kind of the water the world,

864
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:01.880
<v Speaker 1>they take for at it, and it's difficult to be

865
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.239
<v Speaker 1>able to understand quite how that would feel. Given the

866
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.519
<v Speaker 1>relative safety that all of us live in in the UK,

867
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:11.079
<v Speaker 1>and I just the last year, I'd just like to say,

868
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:13.440
<v Speaker 1>what would you say to the people watching at home?

869
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:16.760
<v Speaker 1>How can they help? And not just obviously yourself as

870
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.320
<v Speaker 1>well in terms of the fundraiser, but also in terms

871
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:20.719
<v Speaker 1>of what's happening in Gards more broadly.

872
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.679
<v Speaker 15>I can say that this campaign is a really good one,

873
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:30.079
<v Speaker 15>and I would say, like my masters to the people

874
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:32.920
<v Speaker 15>that they keep up with this and that they support

875
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:36.000
<v Speaker 15>this campaign and try to share it as widely as

876
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.880
<v Speaker 15>they could, because they don't know how much this campaign

877
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.639
<v Speaker 15>would affect the lives people here in Gaza, because there's

878
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 15>like two hundred students and even more that are you

879
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:49.800
<v Speaker 15>having an acceptance in university, but they don't have the

880
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:54.079
<v Speaker 15>enough fund for that will allow them to attend the university.

881
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:57.039
<v Speaker 15>So this campaign and this occasion would help a lot

882
00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:00.920
<v Speaker 15>of people and would change their lives basically because we

883
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:05.960
<v Speaker 15>live like this opportunity would mean a lot for everyone

884
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.480
<v Speaker 15>living here. So I would advise everyone that watching this

885
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 15>to try to look more and to get more information

886
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:18.760
<v Speaker 15>about this occasion and to try to donate or share

887
00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:22.119
<v Speaker 15>or do like any little thing that they could do.

888
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:26.800
<v Speaker 15>Because everything matter, and every voice count and every donation count.

889
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.320
<v Speaker 15>And I'm really happy that there's a lot of people

890
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:32.079
<v Speaker 15>thinking about us, especially for the celebration that attempting this

891
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:36.639
<v Speaker 15>occasion today, this would be like a really beautiful thing

892
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:39.880
<v Speaker 15>and would really change someone's life.

893
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.280
<v Speaker 1>That was shame Aboudolo speaking to me earlier today. The

894
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.119
<v Speaker 1>received wisdom is that politics is hard, but if you're

895
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Zack Palanski, you'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite. Gifted

896
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:51.880
<v Speaker 1>with natural charm, charisma, and with his former career as

897
00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:54.679
<v Speaker 1>an actor preparing him with all the soft skills necessary,

898
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:56.719
<v Speaker 1>it's easy to see how we take to politics like

899
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.239
<v Speaker 1>a duck to water. There's been ten months since he

900
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.679
<v Speaker 1>was elective leader the Green Party in a landslide victory.

901
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 1>He's had quite the meteoric rise since then. It only

902
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:06.960
<v Speaker 1>took seven months into his term as lead of him

903
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:09.119
<v Speaker 1>to take the party from the respectable seven percent in

904
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 1>the polls the party achieved for the previous general election

905
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.239
<v Speaker 1>to registering the first pole lead ever for the party

906
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:17.239
<v Speaker 1>in April this year. It's not just Polanski to thank

907
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.079
<v Speaker 1>for these successes. A slick social media campaign or alongside

908
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.119
<v Speaker 1>an army of canvases gave the party a crushing victory

909
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.400
<v Speaker 1>in the Gaulton and Densen by election, as well as

910
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.480
<v Speaker 1>a discovery of another political talent in the form of

911
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.280
<v Speaker 1>their candidate, Hannah Spencer. Should this have been a surprise

912
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.320
<v Speaker 1>to anyone, though, the fertile ground for a party of

913
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.239
<v Speaker 1>the populist left was made ready and available for Polanski

914
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.159
<v Speaker 1>and co. To move into when former Labour leader Kirstaer

915
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:42.599
<v Speaker 1>pursed anyone to the left of Gerhard Schruder from the

916
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:46.159
<v Speaker 1>Labour Party, and then he also dragged his party firmly

917
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:48.440
<v Speaker 1>to the right on a number of issues. There was

918
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.760
<v Speaker 1>a wellspring of post Corbyn's socialist sentiment available for the

919
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Greens of Tapinsu, especially among the youth, amongst whom at

920
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.280
<v Speaker 1>time of recording the Green still poll in first with

921
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.679
<v Speaker 1>and they had been gifted to them willingly by the

922
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:00.599
<v Speaker 1>star regime.

923
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Remember this.

924
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:06.000
<v Speaker 16>If you don't like that, if you don't like the

925
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:11.119
<v Speaker 16>changes that we've made, I say the door is open

926
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.880
<v Speaker 16>and you can leave.

927
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:17.679
<v Speaker 3>I'm on the subject of Starmer.

928
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Not only were the Greens gifted and nascent supporter base,

929
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.360
<v Speaker 1>they were also gifted possibly the worst political operator possible

930
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 1>as an opponent endless policy gaffs and manifesto breaches, coupled

931
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.960
<v Speaker 1>with hilariously bad political antennae that made him the motated

932
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:35.119
<v Speaker 1>prime minisistance records began. Starmer raised a profile of all

933
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 1>of his political opponents merely by proxy, especially at a

934
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.199
<v Speaker 1>time of deteriorated living standards and a broken economic system

935
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.119
<v Speaker 1>that's creaking at the seams. Let's be frank, the Green Party,

936
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.159
<v Speaker 1>I've been playing politics on He's mode for quite a

937
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:48.800
<v Speaker 1>while now. Not only was there a confluence of favorable

938
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:50.880
<v Speaker 1>conditions for them to cannibalize the voter base of the

939
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Labor Party, their previous status as a minor party shielded

940
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:56.719
<v Speaker 1>them from a great deal of media scrutiny that would

941
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.639
<v Speaker 1>stymy the successes of a mainstream party.

942
00:48:59.079 --> 00:48:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Polanski and co.

943
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Have been able to bypass the mainstream media and talk

944
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 1>directly to voters via social media, of which Fleet Street

945
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:08.559
<v Speaker 1>have been very slow to catch up with, another arena

946
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.800
<v Speaker 1>where Zach Polanski's charisma has been a real boom to

947
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:14.199
<v Speaker 1>the party. All of this culminated in record gains for

948
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 1>the Green Party at May's local elections and the eventual

949
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:20.880
<v Speaker 1>toppling of Kirstaarmer's Prime Minister and now the real politics begins.

950
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Gone are the days of easily dunking on an adenoidal

951
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:26.440
<v Speaker 1>PM proclaiming his father was a drill bit. The government

952
00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:28.880
<v Speaker 1>has finally put an actual human in charge of the

953
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.599
<v Speaker 1>country with functioning emotions heaven forfen. The rhetoric and policy

954
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:35.920
<v Speaker 1>have also shifted to It's clear Burnham's team of recognized

955
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Labour's polling blue to their left and have parked their

956
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.480
<v Speaker 1>tanks on Polanski's lawn. Remember the Green slogan of making

957
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:44.559
<v Speaker 1>hope normal again while Andy Burnham is bringing back hope,

958
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.920
<v Speaker 1>even borrowed lines from Hannah Spencer's victory speech in Gortland

959
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.239
<v Speaker 1>Denton around the struggles to not being able to afford

960
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 1>simple luxuries during the cost of living crisis. Burnham's first

961
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:57.199
<v Speaker 1>week policy blitz has catabolticed his favorability ratings higher than

962
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 1>any leader in years plus nineteen, so is practically unheard

963
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:03.679
<v Speaker 1>of in this era of fractured politics, and whether it's

964
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:06.559
<v Speaker 1>a holleymoon period or not, it's clear that a renewed

965
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.159
<v Speaker 1>focus on the cost of living has immediately curried favor

966
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:13.559
<v Speaker 1>with voters. Direct relief for small businesses and economically precarious

967
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:15.960
<v Speaker 1>are the kind of policies that are Polanski's bread and butter,

968
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and given the precipitous drop in Labour support among these

969
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.000
<v Speaker 1>demographics previously, the Greens will need to up their game

970
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.239
<v Speaker 1>to keep them on side now that Labour has somewhat

971
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:27.599
<v Speaker 1>reverted to type on economic policy, being combative rather than

972
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:30.639
<v Speaker 1>collaborative on policies that are shared between the two leaders

973
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:33.480
<v Speaker 1>is unlikely to prove popular given the public atte type

974
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:37.000
<v Speaker 1>for politicians working together on shared goals. Voters tend to

975
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.079
<v Speaker 1>give new pms the benefit of the doubt, and coming

976
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:42.119
<v Speaker 1>out swinging immediately could look unfair, potentially in the eyes

977
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.599
<v Speaker 1>of the electorate. If the Greens want to bring him

978
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.000
<v Speaker 1>back down to Earth, they'll need to force him onto ground.

979
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Is significantly less comfortable on such as climate change, civil liberties,

980
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.800
<v Speaker 1>and foreign policy, where the Greens hold something closer to

981
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:56.559
<v Speaker 1>median opinion on than the government. It's clear that the

982
00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Greens aren't used to having to respond to narrative setting Elsewhere.

983
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:03.559
<v Speaker 1>It was extremely easy to be the aggressor against Kirstamer,

984
00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:06.519
<v Speaker 1>who spent six years letting everyone else dictake the terms

985
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.480
<v Speaker 1>of the debate, but Burnham's more effective use of social

986
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.000
<v Speaker 1>media and direct focus on the quick wins for people's

987
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:15.159
<v Speaker 1>pockets may prove a more difficult beast to slay, especially

988
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:17.360
<v Speaker 1>after he ditched some of the predecessors. More on popular

989
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:21.199
<v Speaker 1>policies such as digital ID and juria reforms as not

990
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.119
<v Speaker 1>just the opposing parties that are set in the terms

991
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:25.639
<v Speaker 1>of debate either. Now the Greens have been established as

992
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:29.079
<v Speaker 1>a serious electoral force, they're being subject to significantly more

993
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.599
<v Speaker 1>scrutiny than they were a couple of years ago. Whilst

994
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:33.639
<v Speaker 1>some of these things will be easier to rise above,

995
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:36.679
<v Speaker 1>such as ridiculous resurrection of Polanski's decodes or careers aple

996
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the therapist, others have caught the public's attention more vividly,

997
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 1>such as the media storm around Polanski's retweeted criticism of

998
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:47.079
<v Speaker 1>the officer who apprehended the Golden Screen suspect. More recently,

999
00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:50.039
<v Speaker 1>He's got himself in hot water yet again, after carelessly

1000
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:53.480
<v Speaker 1>accepting a collaboration request on an Instagram carousel in which

1001
00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 1>a photo of a man wearing a T shirt with

1002
00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 1>a picture of a guillotine and would appear to be

1003
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:01.039
<v Speaker 1>a veiled reference to Nigel Faraj in it. Just days

1004
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.760
<v Speaker 1>after another reform politician was murdered in her home as well.

1005
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:06.679
<v Speaker 1>The legacy media had a field day on the subject,

1006
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:10.159
<v Speaker 1>leading to pretty real moments like this one on Newsnight

1007
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 1>when Nicholas Watt started live reporting angry texts from Reform Party.

1008
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:19.199
<v Speaker 17>Have got reaction from Reform UK to your interview with

1009
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:23.840
<v Speaker 17>Zach Polanski, and a senior Reform UK source has said

1010
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:29.679
<v Speaker 17>to me, it's truly astonishing and quite frankly sickening that

1011
00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:34.239
<v Speaker 17>Zach Polanski won't apologize for inciting murder.

1012
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.840
<v Speaker 18>He admits it was wrong, he admits it's dangerous, but

1013
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 18>he still refuses to apologize. Mister Polanski, this Reform UK

1014
00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:47.639
<v Speaker 18>source says to me, is not fit to lead a

1015
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:51.760
<v Speaker 18>national political party now.

1016
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Regardless of whether Green Party support is for you, the

1017
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Speaker 1>criticism as legitimate or not, it's a distraction from policy

1018
00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:00.880
<v Speaker 1>and the hard work of Green represents to have to

1019
00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:04.880
<v Speaker 1>constantly firefight concocted media drama around tweets, and there has

1020
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.760
<v Speaker 1>to be an acknowledgment by the party that serious polling

1021
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:11.480
<v Speaker 1>figures require a serious approach to politics. Disgruntle party members

1022
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.519
<v Speaker 1>have apparently briefed journalists that they think Zach Planski is

1023
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.159
<v Speaker 1>quote terminally online and needs to hand over the key

1024
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:20.559
<v Speaker 1>to his social media accounts. His excessive use of social

1025
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:22.800
<v Speaker 1>media hasn't gone unnoticed by journalists either.

1026
00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:27.639
<v Speaker 4>Zak Polanski is a terminally online political figure, and that

1027
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:31.239
<v Speaker 4>has been an asset to some extent. It has explained

1028
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:34.000
<v Speaker 4>his rise, you know, during that period of the doll

1029
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.800
<v Speaker 4>drums of the Labor government and the Keirstalmer government. His

1030
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:41.199
<v Speaker 4>using his social media content, which was so crisp and

1031
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:44.400
<v Speaker 4>had such clarity and had such a clear message, it

1032
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:48.719
<v Speaker 4>propelled them up the polls extremely quickly, and it managed

1033
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.679
<v Speaker 4>to appeal to a disaffected left populist vote in the

1034
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:56.960
<v Speaker 4>country that basically hadn't been spoken four and two since

1035
00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:59.880
<v Speaker 4>the days of Jeremy Corbyn. But you can have to

1036
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.440
<v Speaker 4>much of a good thing, and you can see in

1037
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:04.159
<v Speaker 4>terms of Polanski, I mean to be probably honest, I

1038
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:06.280
<v Speaker 4>sort of notice about myself sometimes when I'm tweeting or

1039
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.400
<v Speaker 4>putting something out, one of the first people who often

1040
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:11.239
<v Speaker 4>likes it or sometimes retweet is that Polanski. And that

1041
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:12.920
<v Speaker 4>happens once and you think, oh, that's quite nice. He's

1042
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:14.360
<v Speaker 4>paying attention to what you're saying. When it happens a

1043
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:16.800
<v Speaker 4>sort of second, third, fifth, tenth, one hundredth time you're

1044
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:18.039
<v Speaker 4>like May if you've not got anything better to be

1045
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.960
<v Speaker 4>doing than retweeting my stuff. Don't get me wrong, it's excellent,

1046
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:21.960
<v Speaker 4>but you know what I mean.

1047
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:25.519
<v Speaker 1>Now, I will be the first to say, briefing to

1048
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.559
<v Speaker 1>journalists about your misgivings for your own party is the

1049
00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:31.440
<v Speaker 1>opposite of serious politics. Anyone who's been involved with the

1050
00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Labor Party, We'll tell you that. But neither is accepting

1051
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:37.960
<v Speaker 1>every collaboration request or retweeting every supporter's post on social media.

1052
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:40.599
<v Speaker 1>The Greens have money now that the second biggest party

1053
00:54:40.639 --> 00:54:43.679
<v Speaker 1>in the country, and a dedicated social media team available

1054
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:47.039
<v Speaker 1>to produce content with consistency of direction. Prudence of engagement

1055
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:50.079
<v Speaker 1>is paramount to taking the Greens from one time insurgence

1056
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:53.119
<v Speaker 1>to a political mainstay. The last area where the Greens

1057
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:55.360
<v Speaker 1>have to also adapt is the new environment on policy.

1058
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.719
<v Speaker 1>When you're an insurgent, it's all about talking to your

1059
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:00.320
<v Speaker 1>own people, and so far they've been excellent on raising

1060
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:03.719
<v Speaker 1>the salients of policies such as wealth taxes, rent controls

1061
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.199
<v Speaker 1>and actions against Israel's genocide and Gaza.

1062
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:08.159
<v Speaker 3>But once you've become a mainstream.

1063
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Party, your policies have to appeal to those outside of

1064
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.119
<v Speaker 1>your own coalition, and they have to be defended against

1065
00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:15.519
<v Speaker 1>your opponents, such as this moment on ITV's Pestin.

1066
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.400
<v Speaker 8>We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world,

1067
00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:20.800
<v Speaker 8>but you can speak to almost anyone and people know

1068
00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:23.400
<v Speaker 8>that they don't feel wealthier. Their bills are going up,

1069
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:26.000
<v Speaker 8>their wages aren't going up. We're seeing people struggle. We're

1070
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:28.480
<v Speaker 8>seeing nurses queuing up at food banks. So it's just

1071
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.519
<v Speaker 8>not working. And actually we need a fundamentally different economics.

1072
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:32.039
<v Speaker 9>People.

1073
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:35.880
<v Speaker 7>If you drive entrepreneurs abroad the very people, well, well,

1074
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:37.400
<v Speaker 7>I think there's a lot of evidence. In fact, we've

1075
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:38.840
<v Speaker 7>been seeing over the last couple of weeks and.

1076
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Has a wealth tax a place with famously wealth tax.

1077
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:48.039
<v Speaker 7>I think the vast majority three quarters of the countries

1078
00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:51.199
<v Speaker 7>that had wealth taxes in the nineteen nineties have scrapped

1079
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:53.400
<v Speaker 7>them because they didn't work. And what they found is

1080
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:56.559
<v Speaker 7>actually they were driving away the very people they needed

1081
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.119
<v Speaker 7>to create jobs in the economy.

1082
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.519
<v Speaker 1>We hear these points, you need to have like a

1083
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:04.840
<v Speaker 1>real constructive and real kind of critical analysis of the

1084
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:07.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of points that Jeremy Hunt is making here. Now,

1085
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.000
<v Speaker 1>It's true, plenty of people in the country are already

1086
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:11.880
<v Speaker 1>brought into a wealth tax on the grounds of inequality alone.

1087
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.800
<v Speaker 1>But when you hear points such as stemy, economic growth

1088
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and investment, those things need to be counted for on

1089
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:18.000
<v Speaker 1>their own terms.

1090
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.199
<v Speaker 3>Luckily we have the data to understand this.

1091
00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:23.440
<v Speaker 1>You look at Norway's tax in which they increase the

1092
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.400
<v Speaker 1>rates recently and only two percent of millionaire wealth left

1093
00:56:26.440 --> 00:56:29.800
<v Speaker 1>the country and still led to an increase in revenue

1094
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.119
<v Speaker 1>and an increase in equality within the country. That's been

1095
00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:35.880
<v Speaker 1>a continual policy in Norway, and it's not been scrapped

1096
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:38.960
<v Speaker 1>necessarily because they didn't work, quote unquote, as Jeremy Hunt said,

1097
00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:41.599
<v Speaker 1>but lots of funds have been scrapped elsewhere purely on

1098
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:45.800
<v Speaker 1>political reasons rather than necessarily because it's economically unproductive. And

1099
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:48.960
<v Speaker 1>in Norway, people who invest in productive businesses the people

1100
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:52.559
<v Speaker 1>who Jeremy Hunt regards as wealth creators, something I would

1101
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.360
<v Speaker 1>also dispute, probably a subject for another time, but those

1102
00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:58.599
<v Speaker 1>business investments aren't even regulated by this wealth tax. It

1103
00:56:58.679 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 1>is for people who are landlords. There's people who own

1104
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:03.400
<v Speaker 1>massive collections of classic cars, or people who have massive

1105
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:06.039
<v Speaker 1>share portfolios. Those are the people who are heavily targeted

1106
00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:09.320
<v Speaker 1>by Norway's wealth tax. Has continually existed. They've raised the

1107
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:12.639
<v Speaker 1>rageus recently and it's still generating revenue for the state

1108
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:15.360
<v Speaker 1>of Norway. And you to have points like this memorized

1109
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.440
<v Speaker 1>so that you can retort in the best way possible

1110
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.880
<v Speaker 1>when people try and take down your policies. Now, there

1111
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:22.840
<v Speaker 1>was also this very excruciating moment on the Makefield di

1112
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:24.440
<v Speaker 1>election debate on Question Time too.

1113
00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:27.719
<v Speaker 6>But one thing I.

1114
00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:30.119
<v Speaker 19>Do want to say is that the idea of blaming

1115
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:35.199
<v Speaker 19>our housing crisis on immigration is absolutely wild to me.

1116
00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:37.960
<v Speaker 13>Actually, do you think it's.

1117
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:39.599
<v Speaker 17>Got an extra ten to twenty million people come in

1118
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:40.000
<v Speaker 17>the country.

1119
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:45.039
<v Speaker 19>You think that if do you think they do.

1120
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:45.920
<v Speaker 7>An extra ten million people are going to have an

1121
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:46.840
<v Speaker 7>effect on How do you.

1122
00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:48.920
<v Speaker 19>Think that if we lock down our borders we're going

1123
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.199
<v Speaker 19>to solve the housing crisis? Is not going to solve.

1124
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:52.920
<v Speaker 8>The thing is, the more people you have in a country,

1125
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:54.199
<v Speaker 8>the more houses you're going to need.

1126
00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:56.760
<v Speaker 1>And it might sound he's really good at explaining things.

1127
00:57:56.760 --> 00:58:08.280
<v Speaker 19>Blames, Yeah, using immigration on the issue of housing I

1128
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:10.039
<v Speaker 19>think is absolutely.

1129
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:12.400
<v Speaker 3>You said it has no impact on housing. I think

1130
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Andy wanted to come in, Do you want to.

1131
00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:17.960
<v Speaker 17>Just ask that question from its immigration of an effect

1132
00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:18.840
<v Speaker 17>on housing.

1133
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:22.320
<v Speaker 19>Whoever lives in this country has an impact on housing.

1134
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:25.719
<v Speaker 1>Of course, and again this has been a continual point

1135
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:27.199
<v Speaker 1>made by the right, and you have to have a

1136
00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:29.920
<v Speaker 1>proper repost. You need to understand where these points are

1137
00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:33.079
<v Speaker 1>coming from. Has immigration led to an increase in house prizes?

1138
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:34.159
<v Speaker 3>It has done.

1139
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:37.039
<v Speaker 1>The question is whether the extensive immigration is actually having

1140
00:58:37.039 --> 00:58:40.320
<v Speaker 1>insignificant impacts, and the evidence says no, it isn't. First

1141
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:42.480
<v Speaker 1>of all, worth pointing out one of the things that

1142
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:45.960
<v Speaker 1>we do have is an aging population, which means the

1143
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.559
<v Speaker 1>population will have to increase, whether it's by an increase

1144
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:51.519
<v Speaker 1>in birthrate or immigration coming in and increasing population will

1145
00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.960
<v Speaker 1>always increase the number of houses that you need. Have

1146
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.199
<v Speaker 1>we built enough houses well, broadly, we've been under building

1147
00:58:56.199 --> 00:58:58.320
<v Speaker 1>houses for a very long time. But in terms of

1148
00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the number of houses per capita in this country, that's

1149
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.039
<v Speaker 1>continued to increase and has continued to increase from a

1150
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:07.760
<v Speaker 1>much lower position that it was previously, too much higher position.

1151
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Now when you look at the actual impact in terms

1152
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:14.840
<v Speaker 1>of how immigration affects house prices, like only six percent

1153
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:18.079
<v Speaker 1>of the house prices we've seen increase over the last

1154
00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:21.119
<v Speaker 1>thirty years, studies have shown is going to be down

1155
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:25.480
<v Speaker 1>to migration. We actually have fifteen million fifteen million spare

1156
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:28.199
<v Speaker 1>bedrooms in this country, and lots of these cases are

1157
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:31.519
<v Speaker 1>because of older people not downsizing because of the potential

1158
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:34.159
<v Speaker 1>impact of things like stamp duty and not having enough

1159
00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:36.480
<v Speaker 1>bungalows available for them to move into. We have a

1160
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.920
<v Speaker 1>very inefficient distribution of how people live in this country

1161
00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:43.320
<v Speaker 1>because of changing living arrangements. Also, people are staying single

1162
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:46.280
<v Speaker 1>for longer, meaning they cohabit, or they need more single

1163
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:49.960
<v Speaker 1>family single person flats rather than single family houses, meaning

1164
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:53.679
<v Speaker 1>again we have an insufficient distribution of houses or people

1165
00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:57.280
<v Speaker 1>per house. These are significantly greater impacts on house prices,

1166
00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:01.639
<v Speaker 1>especially since migrants often cohabit in larger families and single

1167
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:03.880
<v Speaker 1>houses in a way that we in this country who

1168
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:06.639
<v Speaker 1>aren't immigrants really don't. That's been a kind of cultural

1169
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:09.880
<v Speaker 1>difference there. So the immigration impact really isn't that high

1170
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.760
<v Speaker 1>in this country. And unless you have those things memorized

1171
01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:15.360
<v Speaker 1>and you understand the reposts in terms of these responses,

1172
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.280
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to be able to properly respond when

1173
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:22.960
<v Speaker 1>people bring up their own perspectives on things such as

1174
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the housing crisis. As we saw on that clip, there

1175
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:28.639
<v Speaker 1>now all the major parties have started preparing for the

1176
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:31.599
<v Speaker 1>next selection. The Greens need to start preparing too, and

1177
01:00:31.639 --> 01:00:34.159
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't just mean having the soundbites ready on policies

1178
01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:36.519
<v Speaker 1>people want. It means being able to defend those policies

1179
01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:39.159
<v Speaker 1>publicly and to build a full perspectus for government on

1180
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:42.239
<v Speaker 1>every key policy area. As policy within the Green Party

1181
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:44.719
<v Speaker 1>is decided by members, the process can be kind of

1182
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.360
<v Speaker 1>slow and unwieldy. No, that's not a bad thing. I

1183
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:49.039
<v Speaker 1>really like the member democracy and the Green Party. I

1184
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:51.039
<v Speaker 1>think it's a good thing. Now, it does mean that

1185
01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the work on getting these things tied down has to

1186
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:56.480
<v Speaker 1>happen sooner rather than later. Dahlia, do you think that

1187
01:00:56.519 --> 01:00:59.000
<v Speaker 1>the Green Party need a change of strategy given that

1188
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:00.719
<v Speaker 1>there's a new prime ministry in place, or do you

1189
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:02.840
<v Speaker 1>think we can see the Green Party move in the

1190
01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:04.360
<v Speaker 1>same direction they've been going in before.

1191
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:08.119
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, I do think that the territory has certainly changed.

1192
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:12.920
<v Speaker 14>I mean, on the one hand, I do think it's

1193
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:16.719
<v Speaker 14>important to understand that there is no acceptable socialists to

1194
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.000
<v Speaker 14>the British press, and so we will never be in

1195
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:24.079
<v Speaker 14>a situation where, you know, we have a prominent socialist

1196
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:27.880
<v Speaker 14>politician who is not being attacked by the press. There's

1197
01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:32.119
<v Speaker 14>no way to eliminate the likelihood of hit pieces, and

1198
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:37.079
<v Speaker 14>particularly kind of unfair and frivolous hit pieces, and so far,

1199
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.639
<v Speaker 14>I think that Polanski has dealt with that quite well

1200
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:43.880
<v Speaker 14>because he sort of refused to cower in the face

1201
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 14>of these hit pieces. He often draws attention to it

1202
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:49.840
<v Speaker 14>and calls it out for what it is, which is

1203
01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.719
<v Speaker 14>a distraction. So he kind of uses the weight of

1204
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:57.800
<v Speaker 14>the press against itself and I think that has broadly

1205
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:01.679
<v Speaker 14>been quite effective. But I do you think that now

1206
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:03.719
<v Speaker 14>we are in a different territory, now that we have

1207
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:07.320
<v Speaker 14>Burnham as head of the Labor Party. First of all,

1208
01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:09.760
<v Speaker 14>I think that now that Burnham's been elected, the press

1209
01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:14.400
<v Speaker 14>really want to kind of declare Polanski dead. And I

1210
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:17.440
<v Speaker 14>also think that Burnham is a lot savvier than perhaps

1211
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:19.719
<v Speaker 14>we give him credit for. I think it's not just

1212
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:23.239
<v Speaker 14>that Starmer was really bad. I think that Burnham also

1213
01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:26.119
<v Speaker 14>has a very keen understanding of politics. I think the

1214
01:02:26.199 --> 01:02:28.960
<v Speaker 14>fact that he when the transition of power was happening

1215
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:32.760
<v Speaker 14>from Corbynism to Starmerism, he kind of identified quite early on.

1216
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:35.519
<v Speaker 14>I don't want to get I need to like take

1217
01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:37.519
<v Speaker 14>myself out of this because the next few years are

1218
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:38.960
<v Speaker 14>going to be really messy and they're going to be

1219
01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:41.480
<v Speaker 14>really destructive. If I take my hat out the ring

1220
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:43.440
<v Speaker 14>for the next five years, I can, like pet I

1221
01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:47.079
<v Speaker 14>can reap the rewards of that later down the line.

1222
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.199
<v Speaker 14>But I also think that the Greens are and I

1223
01:02:50.199 --> 01:02:52.119
<v Speaker 14>agree with you, the Greens are now a very serious

1224
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.840
<v Speaker 14>force in politics, and they need to take themselves seriously.

1225
01:02:55.559 --> 01:02:59.559
<v Speaker 14>And I think that it's very important that they remain

1226
01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:02.960
<v Speaker 14>a series force in politics because even though now that

1227
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:06.760
<v Speaker 14>Burnham is his leader with the Labor Party, the chances

1228
01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:11.039
<v Speaker 14>of the next selection being a Reform versus Green dynamic

1229
01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:15.159
<v Speaker 14>is probably lower. I mean, it was always quite far fetched,

1230
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:18.199
<v Speaker 14>but I think now it is definitely lower. Especially if

1231
01:03:18.199 --> 01:03:21.840
<v Speaker 14>Burnham does spend the next few years actually making advances

1232
01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:25.320
<v Speaker 14>on bread and butter issues, then the prospect of that

1233
01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:28.960
<v Speaker 14>has decreased quite a bit. But one thing that Reform

1234
01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:31.800
<v Speaker 14>has definitely showed us, and Nigel Farrage as a political

1235
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.000
<v Speaker 14>operator has showed us, is that you don't even have

1236
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:38.320
<v Speaker 14>to have a single elected MP to be able to

1237
01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:42.519
<v Speaker 14>really shape and influence the political landscape and the political

1238
01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:46.199
<v Speaker 14>spectrum in this country. I'm not saying that that's a

1239
01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:47.760
<v Speaker 14>great thing. You know, it would be great if we

1240
01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:50.639
<v Speaker 14>had like a functioning democracy where you could actually be

1241
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:54.800
<v Speaker 14>represented in Parliament, not just by two parties that just

1242
01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:57.480
<v Speaker 14>kind of passed the baton to and from one another.

1243
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:03.039
<v Speaker 14>But we have learned from Nigel Farrajan is various political

1244
01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:07.519
<v Speaker 14>vehicles that you can create quite a significant center of

1245
01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:11.639
<v Speaker 14>gravity outside of the two main political parties that genuinely

1246
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:14.599
<v Speaker 14>shapes what those political parties do. And I think it's

1247
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:18.880
<v Speaker 14>very important going forward that the Labor Party never ever

1248
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:22.079
<v Speaker 14>ever rests on the belief that it can take its

1249
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:24.639
<v Speaker 14>base for granted, and that the left and that young

1250
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.920
<v Speaker 14>people and progressive people are a kind of nuisance or

1251
01:04:29.079 --> 01:04:31.119
<v Speaker 14>are a fleas that you can shake off when you

1252
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:34.840
<v Speaker 14>think it's politically expedient. And a strong Green party, a

1253
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:38.239
<v Speaker 14>viable Green party, a Green party that takes itself seriously,

1254
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:43.199
<v Speaker 14>that has a serious electoral and common strategy, is absolutely essential.

1255
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:45.880
<v Speaker 14>So what I'm trying to say is that even if

1256
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:51.159
<v Speaker 14>the Greens electoral prospects don't look as good under a

1257
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:54.400
<v Speaker 14>Burnham leadership then perhaps they did under a Starmer leadership.

1258
01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.760
<v Speaker 14>There is still a vital role for the Greens to

1259
01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:01.760
<v Speaker 14>play in our political system because I'm not someone who

1260
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.840
<v Speaker 14>is first and foremost committed to any political party. I'm

1261
01:05:04.840 --> 01:05:09.039
<v Speaker 14>committed to getting the best political program, the most just

1262
01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:12.920
<v Speaker 14>political program for Britain and also for all the people

1263
01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:15.239
<v Speaker 14>in the world who are impacted by what Britain does.

1264
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:20.199
<v Speaker 14>And from that perspective, a healthy and strong and savvy

1265
01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:23.800
<v Speaker 14>Green Party can actually get a lot done, even if

1266
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:26.840
<v Speaker 14>they might not be as close to an electoral victory

1267
01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:29.159
<v Speaker 14>as they were under Starma, because Starmer made it so easy.

1268
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we literally left the European Union because the

1269
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:34.199
<v Speaker 1>exact servative Party were scared of losing votes to UKIP,

1270
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:35.800
<v Speaker 1>which happened. You have a twelve percent of the vote

1271
01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:38.400
<v Speaker 1>in twenty fifteen I think UKIP did. That's a significant

1272
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:40.840
<v Speaker 1>chunk of the Conservative voture they were scared of, as

1273
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:42.960
<v Speaker 1>well as internal party politics, and that's how we got

1274
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:45.039
<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest constitutional changes in this country in

1275
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:48.039
<v Speaker 1>decades and decades and decades. Right, you can have plenty

1276
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:50.480
<v Speaker 1>of effect on politics from outside the systemhere.

1277
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:52.400
<v Speaker 3>I think you're absolutely right, and.

1278
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I think the press kind of haven't talked about the

1279
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.159
<v Speaker 1>fact that Keir Starmer is no longer Prime Minister because

1280
01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:00.920
<v Speaker 1>of Zacho Polanski. Exactly. This is a really important point

1281
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:03.039
<v Speaker 1>that never gets mentioned at all. It's a huge emerger

1282
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:05.119
<v Speaker 1>on it, which is that, as I've been pointed out

1283
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:06.760
<v Speaker 1>by John Curtis, it seems the only person on the

1284
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:09.800
<v Speaker 1>BBC who's pointed this out, which was the biggest kind

1285
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:13.239
<v Speaker 1>of vote migration between twenty twenty four and twenty twenty

1286
01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:15.280
<v Speaker 1>six local elections was Labor to Green. That was the

1287
01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.000
<v Speaker 1>biggest migration that caused Labor to lose seats in London

1288
01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and inner cities, but it also caused them to lose

1289
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:24.159
<v Speaker 1>seats elsewhere due to a split vote, allowing Reform or

1290
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:26.119
<v Speaker 1>the Tories to come up through the middle. This is

1291
01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:29.119
<v Speaker 1>the biggest migration of voters. And without Zach Perlanski having

1292
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:33.039
<v Speaker 1>some way of being able to criticize Kirs Starmer bring

1293
01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:35.559
<v Speaker 1>those voters over. Remember, like the young person's vote, I

1294
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:38.480
<v Speaker 1>think in terms of vote share was like forty between

1295
01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:41.199
<v Speaker 1>forty and forty seven percent for Labor at the last election.

1296
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:43.960
<v Speaker 1>It's now sub twenty if you look at or at

1297
01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:45.920
<v Speaker 1>least went under Kistarmer at sub twenty. When you looked

1298
01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:48.159
<v Speaker 1>at the cross tabs on a lot of the polling

1299
01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:52.480
<v Speaker 1>companies showing really like the absolute cratering of their support

1300
01:06:52.519 --> 01:06:54.800
<v Speaker 1>amongst young people was very, very real, and this is

1301
01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:56.880
<v Speaker 1>why Kirstarmer was forced to step down. They lost the

1302
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:59.960
<v Speaker 1>local elections, he was forced out. This does not happen

1303
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:04.280
<v Speaker 1>without there being an insurgent force finding some home to

1304
01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:06.639
<v Speaker 1>the people who've been disabused by Stamerism.

1305
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.760
<v Speaker 14>And it's not only that Kiss Starmer was forced to

1306
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:13.440
<v Speaker 14>step down, it was that his replacement was to the

1307
01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:15.719
<v Speaker 14>left of him. Because there's another world in which Kis

1308
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.360
<v Speaker 14>Starmer could have been forced to step down and parachuted

1309
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:20.719
<v Speaker 14>in his place, would have been where Streeting. That actually

1310
01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:23.480
<v Speaker 14>looked very likely at one point, but it was specifically

1311
01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:26.320
<v Speaker 14>the fact that he was swapped out with Andy Burnham,

1312
01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:29.840
<v Speaker 14>who is to the left of Starma. That shows you

1313
01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:33.159
<v Speaker 14>the impact that you can have. And that's why I

1314
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:37.199
<v Speaker 14>think we shouldn't get too preoccupied with you know, oh, well,

1315
01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:39.039
<v Speaker 14>is it likely that the Greens are going to win

1316
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:40.840
<v Speaker 14>the next election or is it like that?

1317
01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:42.079
<v Speaker 13>That's not the point.

1318
01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:44.119
<v Speaker 14>The point is is that we need to have a

1319
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:49.199
<v Speaker 14>really strong gravitational pull outside of the Labor Party that

1320
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:53.000
<v Speaker 14>makes the Labor Party scared of losing the left because

1321
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:56.079
<v Speaker 14>it has always rested on its laurels that they have

1322
01:07:56.199 --> 01:07:58.960
<v Speaker 14>nowhere else to go. There's always been this thing of

1323
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:01.360
<v Speaker 14>like the left art going anywhere, they have nowhere else

1324
01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:03.280
<v Speaker 14>to go, So we basically don't have to give them

1325
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:07.960
<v Speaker 14>any concessions. And that has changed, and that is really

1326
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:09.719
<v Speaker 14>really powerful and really important.

1327
01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:11.920
<v Speaker 13>And I have to agree with you as well.

1328
01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:14.920
<v Speaker 14>Helena that, like as much as perhaps you know, being

1329
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:19.079
<v Speaker 14>terminally online might be a problem, I think this briefing

1330
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:22.439
<v Speaker 14>from within the party to the press has if any

1331
01:08:22.479 --> 01:08:25.199
<v Speaker 14>of you are listening, has has got to stop.

1332
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:27.199
<v Speaker 1>We've already seen how damage in the stars for the

1333
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Labor Party, like so much stuff that's just come out

1334
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.560
<v Speaker 1>of you know, McSweeney Towers presumably or whatever it is.

1335
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:34.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean to the point where Superey how to tell

1336
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:37.680
<v Speaker 1>people in the like the actual kind of in number ten,

1337
01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:38.920
<v Speaker 1>you have to stop briefing.

1338
01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:41.920
<v Speaker 3>It looks terrible. All it does it.

1339
01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:46.000
<v Speaker 14>Makes you look on serious and it takes the potential

1340
01:08:46.039 --> 01:08:49.520
<v Speaker 14>of political power that you can have out because it's

1341
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:51.880
<v Speaker 14>not like because the reason that people brief is because

1342
01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:56.079
<v Speaker 14>they want to weaken that there's a factional war within

1343
01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:57.720
<v Speaker 14>a party and they're like, I'm going to brief to

1344
01:08:57.760 --> 01:08:59.960
<v Speaker 14>the press so I can like weaken my factional opponent.

1345
01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:03.479
<v Speaker 14>In reality, it makes the whole thing look like a joke,

1346
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:07.039
<v Speaker 14>So it actually doesn't have the concept the impact that

1347
01:09:07.079 --> 01:09:07.600
<v Speaker 14>you think it's.

1348
01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Gonna Like how many labor right MPs lost their seats

1349
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:13.399
<v Speaker 1>in twenty nineteen because people from their same faction of

1350
01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:15.920
<v Speaker 1>briefing stupidship to the press to try and because you

1351
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:17.640
<v Speaker 1>try and get make sure that Jeremy Corbin lost the all.

1352
01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:20.600
<v Speaker 14>And especially when you're talking about the Green Party, which

1353
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:25.039
<v Speaker 14>is only really just arriving to mainstream politics, Like you

1354
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:28.840
<v Speaker 14>have to convince the public that you are a serious

1355
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:32.159
<v Speaker 14>party that can be a mainstream player, and you don't

1356
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:35.560
<v Speaker 14>do that by looking like a divided clown show.

1357
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:37.560
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent. There there needs to be a actual

1358
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:40.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of unity of purpose. I get in this case,

1359
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:42.159
<v Speaker 1>I think it was probably something quite small, like lots

1360
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:44.000
<v Speaker 1>of people understood that. I think that maybe the social

1361
01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:46.680
<v Speaker 1>media stuff did go too far right, but this is,

1362
01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:48.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, a barometer for where this could go in

1363
01:09:48.760 --> 01:09:50.720
<v Speaker 1>the future, and absolutely right even at the first point

1364
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:52.600
<v Speaker 1>of call when we see these briefings start to happen,

1365
01:09:52.880 --> 01:09:55.640
<v Speaker 1>like the people who they just have to stop and

1366
01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:58.680
<v Speaker 1>learn the press of the enemy if you're a political party.

1367
01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't matter what political party are for, unless you're especially

1368
01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:05.279
<v Speaker 1>a re socialist party, even an ecological party, given how

1369
01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:08.560
<v Speaker 1>much money from the petrochemical industry slashes around the media

1370
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:10.680
<v Speaker 1>these days, right, the press are the enemy and you

1371
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:12.560
<v Speaker 1>have to treat them like them, even if it's someone

1372
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:15.920
<v Speaker 1>who presumably might be somewhat aligned to you, maybe even

1373
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:17.960
<v Speaker 1>like the Guardian. There are still people there who want

1374
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to take you down for their perceived political interest or

1375
01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:23.039
<v Speaker 1>indeed for viral interest or a good story, for just

1376
01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:25.960
<v Speaker 1>for a good story, for good copy. That's more important

1377
01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:28.439
<v Speaker 1>than that the political ends and means of what happens

1378
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to the country overall, because that is not the concern

1379
01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:33.600
<v Speaker 1>of the media in this country. He's not the mainstream

1380
01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:38.199
<v Speaker 1>or legacy media. Thank you very much Darlie for joining me.

1381
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:40.079
<v Speaker 13>Tonight, Thanks for having me Helena, and thank.

1382
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:42.199
<v Speaker 1>You Stephen for joining us earlier as well. And thanks

1383
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:44.680
<v Speaker 1>everyone for tuning in to day too. Come back tomorrow

1384
01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.119
<v Speaker 1>for another livestream from six pm. For now you've been

1385
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.119
<v Speaker 1>watching Navaramedia.

1386
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:48.760
<v Speaker 3>Good night,