Speaker 1: Can not.
Speaker 2: Long means young names this a been no boy sing race.
Speaker 3: Than by Mason name Joe gone on you.
Speaker 2: And have a real good time.
Speaker 1: Wall.
Speaker 2: You crazy.
Speaker 3: You're not cutting.
Speaker 1: You're crazy. I'm not You're not cut.
Speaker 4: Black Dad song. You even brought your friend contos what
I've been stuff all over the night, the friend I
got strapped shopping my shot the sound of human times,
you got tuning me out.
Speaker 2: We have a bad hu time.
Speaker 3: Wall.
Speaker 1: You're crazy.
Speaker 3: I'm not here.
Speaker 1: You're not count able.
Speaker 2: You're crazy.
Speaker 1: Hev I'm not you mind not.
Speaker 3: Wha.
Speaker 1: You're crazy. I'm not here. You might count that you're crazy.
Hev im here.
Speaker 3: You not cutting?
Speaker 1: You're crazy.
Speaker 4: Aby not here, You're not contible.
Speaker 1: You're crazy.
Speaker 3: You're not cutting. Animal back fly back.
Speaker 5: Back for un Me, clip back clip back with the
Vengeance one three three, flip back fi back back for you.
Speaker 1: And Me clip back like back with a Vengeance? Wont
you three?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: People thought we.
Speaker 7: Would a five, But when they said that's that, I don't.
Speaker 1: Think if they really care.
Speaker 3: I hate it. Yeah.
Speaker 7: People thought we wouldn't last rolling up.
Speaker 5: To it in the dress, and I don't say if
they really care. I hate my back, my back back
for you and me like back. It's like back with
a Vengeance under three.
Speaker 3: It's like that. It's like back that bring you with
me like that, it's like.
Speaker 4: That Avendan Wader three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people thought we would inside. That's not what they
said last time.
Speaker 6: I don't think they really care.
Speaker 3: I hate hate it, hate it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: The people thought we wouldn't last roll it up doing
in the dress, and I don't think they really can't.
Speaker 1: I hate, Yes, my back.
Speaker 7: Like that like that, like that's for you and me
like that, like that the Vengeance looking three right back
like that, it's like that for you and me like
that like that, the Vengeance Waking three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people thought.
Speaker 5: We won't e That's not what they said last time.
Speaker 6: I don't think they really care.
Speaker 3: Well, we wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Laughing in the tracks.
Speaker 6: And I don't think they really kid.
Speaker 4: I'm back.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome, a little uh little problem here loading
up our theme music this morning. Welcome. This is Matt
Connorton Unleashed and we are live from the studios of
w m n H ninety five point three FM, Inglorious, Manchester,
New Hampshire, and Jenny is here as well, of course.
At the news table, and we opened with a couple
of great new tracks, My Kind of Animal, that's the
world radio premiere from Down Boys, and of course uh oh,
and of course we just played a fight back from
our friend Dave Strong from Boston, and I just heard
something click here, so I'm gonna see if okay, so
he's waiting. I think we have. So we've got a
great show planned for you today. I'm just trying to
figure out why. Let's see, I can't seem to do
anything in virtual DJ. That's why you have not heard
my theme music this morning. This is really weird. So
we're having a mild software issue. But I say mild
because it does not prevent us from being on the air.
We are on the air, We are live, Welcome everybody.
Today is Saturday, June seven, twenty twenty five. So what
we're gonna do right now is we're gonna play a
track from the Crowmags and this is called hard Times.
And then and then our new friend Harley Flanagan is
going to be joining us via not Skype. I'm so
used to saying Skype, but Skype has been taken away
from us by Microsoft. But so we're using a different
service now. But I did hear a tone, so I
believe he has already joined us and really excited to
talk to Harley Flanagan of the Crowmags, and of course
before that the Stimulators. I've learned a lot about Harley
Flanagan in the last couple of days. But let's give
this a spin. This is called hard Times, and then
we're going to talk with Harley.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of times coming to you on the
rock of Bobs for die, O can nothing. I can
figure it out. Why don't know? Dind down.
Speaker 4: By time by time?
Speaker 6: Same, I'm lame, bossy, room back tie a time bo
saying made.
Speaker 2: I'm going town A lot of times coming drowns.
Speaker 3: What if you're hot and long, you're the hill.
Speaker 6: If they're gonna trying to drop you into the world,
that's run up, not gonna go down. I'm di b
die Sames, I'm being pot into the road, wade. Let
I'll die by saying made, I'm going town.
Speaker 2: A right, God, hard times. Indeed, if that doesn't get
the adrenaline, go and check your pulse, you might be dead.
As I like to say, let's see so I see him.
He is on the line with us. Let's see if
we can hear him. Harley Flanagin, Are you there, sir?
Speaker 8: Can you hear me? I?
Speaker 2: Can can you hear me? Okay?
Speaker 8: I can hear you?
Speaker 2: Oh awesome, Welcome to the program. I am very excited
to speak with you because so I've always been aware
of you and certainly aware of the Cromaggs. I did
not know much about your backstory. So I've kind of
taken a crash course in the line couple of days
on Harley Flanagan and you have had had quite a life.
And by the way, I did check out the trailer
too for Wired for Chaos. I am dying to see that.
That looks that looks fascinating. But that's not out yet. Correct?
Is it coming out soon?
Speaker 8: Actually, it's going to be airing about airing. It's going
to be in theaters starting June fifteenth. They are having
four They're showing it four times here in New York
at the Roxy Cinema. I'm going to be there, Q
and A. And it's also going to be showing in
La San Francisco, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Austin,
and there's a bunch of other places getting lined up
and over between now and July, I'm going to be
flying all over the place doing like Q and as
at these showings.
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic.
Speaker 8: Yeah. And then I think i've heard that in August
it's going to be doing a pay per view type
of event following the release on DVD and stuff like that.
So it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Oh that is really cool. What is that like? I mean,
I mean, obviously, have you sat down and actually watched it?
Have you watched it from beginning to end? That might
sound like a strange question, but I've heard other people say,
particularly people who are the subjects of documentary films. They'll
tell you, Oh, no, I haven't watched it. I can't
bring myself to watch it. I mean, have you sat
down and watched the whole thing?
Speaker 8: I actually did not see it until they were done,
so I have seen it. But it was definitely a
nerve wracking process because I didn't get to see anything
until it was finished, and I was not privy or
part of the editing process, so you know, I was
a little nervous. But I think they I think they
did a pretty good job. I mean, it's really hard
to tell, you know, an entire life in you know,
an hour and change, but they managed to do a
pretty good job.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, oh that's fantastic. Yeah, I look forward
to seeing it. I assume after you know, after the
run in theaters, it'll be on do you know where
it's going to be. I assume it'll be on a
streaming service like Netflix or something like that. I don't know.
Speaker 8: I really don't know, you know, because I'm actually not
so involved with this. I mean, I'm the subject of it,
but you know, my thing is still music and I'm
you know, I'm I'm going on tour Monday, I'm flying
to Europe, so I mean, wow, I am you know,
I'm concentrating on my job, you know, I let them
handle that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Your story is fascinating to me because you're an example
of someone who really overcame a lot your childhood. From
what I've heard you describe in some interviews that I
that I listened to and watched and read, pretty uh,
pretty hellish existence compared to what most people are used
to growing up in New York City in a time
where you know, sort of a pre gentrification or however
you want to talk about it. But you're you're a
real New Yorker. That's where you grew up, and and
and and what you went through growing up was was
pretty rough, which I assume shapes a lot of your
your music, right, sort of that aggression, And it's a
subject that comes out a lot on the show, you know,
creating art from trauma.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I think that's one of the one of
the few good things that can come from it. Yeah,
but yeah, you know it, I definitely have had an
interesting journey obviously, or they would not have made a film.
But yeah, man, you know, I'm actually I'm living my
best life now. Man. You know, I'm just lucky I
made it through all of that and that I came
out the other side more or less in one piece.
And you know, I mean, things are going great for me.
You know. Like I said, I'm leaving on Monday when
I get back from this tour. I literally I land
at the airport and I go to the first showing
of the film this day. Like I'm putting down the
eggs and I'm going to A Q and A and
I'm going to be pretty much hitting the ground running
from now from Monday until the end of the summer
at least.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible. One of the things that I think
is really interesting about your story is and this is
something that casual fans of you or of the chromags
or anything that you've done might not even know this,
but obviously people who pay attention now and I've been
learning about it jiu jitsu and the role that that
has played in your life. And I was particularly interested
in that too, because I don't do it anymore, but
I used to do gcundo and and I've seen up close,
you know, I mean, I've for I've been lucky in life.
I've had a pretty normal existence overall, and I certainly
didn't have the kind of upbringing that you did, but
so I didn't necessarily have any any particular thing that
I was trying to overcome or work through. But I've
I've certainly met my share of people who have and
I'd love to get your thoughts on how on how
you feel that that has helped you and really shaped you.
That experience of getting into jiu jitsu, which you got
into at a pretty young age, right, you were still
a teenager, I think.
Speaker 8: Well, actually that got into it kind of late. I
was almost I was like around thirty I started training. Yeah. No,
I started training jiu jitsu in ninety six, okay, which
is you know, so in one way, I was definitely
the first generation of Americans that was training under any
of the Brazilian Black belts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: You know, Master hands up. He is my master and
my mentor and close friend and more like a brother
to me than anything else. And you know, I was
just really lucky. You know, I saw UFC one and two.
I actually got them at Blockbusters on VHS whether they
were first available. This was like in you know, early
nineties ninety three, and I pretty much made up my
mind then that if I ever had the opportunity to
train with any of the gracers, that I was going
to take advantage of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: And you know, I mean I have you know, I've
had my share of excuse me, I've had my share
of fights in my life. And I had never seen
anything like like an arm bar or any of these techniques.
I was just like, what is he doing? You know
all these you know, different joint locks and so on
and so forth, and I was just like, I got
to learn this stuff, man, this is really fascinating, and
that you know, that was a long time ago. I
still trained pretty uh religiously. Man. I'm at the academy
like at least a couple of times a week, sometimes
three four times a week when I'm not on tour.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 8: I you know, I exercised every day, and you know,
jiu jitsu really keeps me together, keeps my head on straight,
gives me a place to, you know, let the steam
off and get normal.
Speaker 2: Sure. Sure, when you first got into it, did you know?
I mean, obviously you had an interest, you know, and
you talked about, you know, watching UFC on I remember
those days, of course Blockbuster VHS, renting a Blockbuster.
Speaker 8: But I know it's like it said, young people are
gonna be like, what are they talking about?
Speaker 2: I know it seems like another lifetime, doesn't it.
Speaker 8: But I know it doesn't. It doesn't feel like that
long ago. But at the same time, it's like when
the hell was that?
Speaker 2: I know it's wild, But when you first got into it,
when you first started training, were you surprised at how
it helped you? Obviously, at what helpful physically and you
learn how to defend yourself and all this. There's those
immediate practical applications that are obvious, But were you surprised
at how it also helped you mentally? And really kind of,
you know, this is kind of the way I think
of it. You're kind of organizing your brain in a
way that that's positive and helpful and obviously too, you know,
you get those endorphins going and everything, and that helps
you emotionally. And were you surprised by those other ways
that it helped you aside from just the obvious, or
did you kind of think that might happen.
Speaker 8: I can't say I was surprised, but it was not
the reason I started training. Yeah, I mean, I started
training because I was always you know, I've been a
fighter my whole life. You know, I've been fighting, you know,
on the streets and you know since I was a kid,
and I just wanted to learn something new, and I
fell in love with it. And you know, honestly, I
started because of the fighting aspects of it, but I
stayed with it all these years because of the love.
You know, I fell in love not just with the art,
but the community. You know, I've made some of the
best friends of my life through jiu jitsu. I think
it attracts, you know, intelligent people you know, people you
think that combat athletes are just you know, fighters are
like knuckleheads and you know, not too smart. They just
know how to smash each other or whatever. But I'll
tell you, man, jiu jitsu is really technical, and it's
really it's like playing chess, like physical chess. Sure who
stick with it and gravitate towards it or you know,
really really sharp man. And it changed my life for
the better in so many ways. Like I literally know,
if it was only about fighting or only about the
combat or the violence or whatever, there's no way I'd
still be doing it this many years later, you know,
I mean started in ninety six. Man, it's you know, yeah, five,
I'm still rolling, still loving it, and it's my community.
It's where I that's where I go, you know, I
really don't do much else when I'm not on tour. Yeah,
you know, that's that's my social life, that's my that's
where my friends are.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: And I'm just really lucky that that this came to.
Speaker 2: Me, you know, absolutely, thank God for you. Yeah, no kidding, huh.
And I'm glad you said what you said too about
you know, intelligent people. This is something that they do
because You're right, there is a misconception, and I'm sure
you run into it. I'm sure you run into it constantly. Still,
you know that that people who do this are just
you know, muscle heads who want to smash each other,
and they don't understand that. No, it is much deeper
than that, and it is complicated.
Speaker 1: To be fair.
Speaker 8: In the old days, you know, it was a little different.
You know, when I first started training, it wasn't really
as family friendly, and there were not many women involved
in the sport, you know, those early days. The people
who got into it were pretty much people who either
you know, we were bouncers, or people who were pursuing
mma as a career, or people who just liked to fight.
So it did initially attract a lot of knuckleheads, sure,
but they get weeded out pretty quick because you really
can't be in that world too long because sooner or
later you're going to meet somebody that's going to submit you,
and you're gonna learn some humility, gonna leave, you know,
if you can't, if you can't handle defeat with grace,
you're not gonna last. Yeah, you know, because people people
who can't handle losing, and and and and still respecting
your opponent, shaking their hand, giving them a hug. If
you can't handle that, you're never gonna last in this sport,
because you know you have to. I mean, you do
need a certain amount of pride. You do need to
have a certain amount of you know, belief in yourself,
and you have to you know, any combat situation you
have to go in like, yeah, I'm gonna you up.
But at the same time, you know.
Speaker 2: Harley hardly not not to interrupt, but I just have
to remind you we are on FM radio.
Speaker 8: So I'm sorry. I totally you know, I've been doing
some podcasts and videos the last few days. I'm lost.
I forget no, I hope you can bleed out.
Speaker 2: No worries, my friend, We're we're, we're. That's okay. We're
on an eight second delay so I was able to
catch it, so no big deal. Don't don't even swid it.
Don't even switer.
Speaker 8: That's my natural New York just slips out. I mean,
it's one of the Yeah, it was not easy. When
I was teaching the kids class.
Speaker 2: I can imagine no, no, no, that's cold. And the
parents did too, so excellent. Well that's what counts. That's
what counts. Absolutely, that must be possible.
Speaker 8: Little parents how to be you know, tough. So I
think your parents appreciated it.
Speaker 2: Well, that must be so rewarding too, to be able
to teach young people who are getting into it. Yeah,
that must be so constructor.
Speaker 8: And I was running that program for like ten years,
but I had to stop working at the Academy because
I started touring so much again. Yeah, you know, when
my kids were young, younger, I took a break from
touring for a while and I was really just focusing
on being dad. And you know, I it was awesome.
It was some of the best some of the best
experiences and times of my life were just being dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: But you know, once they got a little older, and
you know, it's time for me to get back to work.
I mean, I I music is my life. It always
has been. Martial arts is part of my life. But
you know, I make a living playing music, and you know,
it pays me better than you know, teaching jiu jitsu.
And if I had to pick one or the other,
I don't know if I really could, because I you know,
it's they're both really a part of who I am.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so speak of music. So you got into I
mean you were you were a teenager right when you
started playing playing bass. I'm a bass player, by the way,
so I'm I'm particularly uh interested in this, But I mean,
how old were you when you started playing? And you're
pretty young, right.
Speaker 8: Well I was. I did my first tour in a
punk rock band ten Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 8: I put out on my first record when I was twelve,
and that was a pretty legendary forty five called loud
Fast Rules. My old band, the Stimulators, and we were,
you know, we were a punk band, but we were
kind of the forerunners of what would become the New
York hardcore scene. Yeah, like all the basically we you know,
we were more of a punk band, like I say,
but all of our fans, the kids that were at
our shows were pretty much the first generation of New
York hardcore bands. Okay, you know, an Agnostic Front was
in our audience cause for Alarm, the Mob, Urban Waste,
Like pretty much the entire first generation of New York
hardcore bands came out of our audience.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: So although we were not a hardcore band, we were
definitely very influential. You know, we really kind of created
a space for those kids because well, I think also
a lot of it had to do with the fact
that I was so young, so you know, that attracted
younger kids as opposed to like all the throwback punk
rockers that had been hanging out at Max's and CBS,
who for the most part were all, you know, messed
up on drugs. A lot of them were junkies, and
you know, it was a pretty it was a pretty
grimy scene, you know. I mean, the majority of the
people that I knew when I was a kid, you know,
they were in their early twenties and stuff. And many
of the punk rockers back then, we're you know, working
in the sex shows, you know, in Times Square, you know,
screwing on stage and stuff for their drug money. And
a lot of the chicks were prostitutes and you know
or you know, strippers that stripping was nothing. You know,
most of them literally were prostitutes and doing live sex
shows to support their drug habits. And these were the
people I hung out with when I was twelve, you know.
So you know, really there's it's no wonder that by
the time I was, you know, fifteen, I was already
living on the streets and you know, shooting meth and
smoking PCP and wow, you name it. Yeah, I definitely
didn't have a normal upbringing. And you know when when
everybody around you is that when all the adults are
pretty much well not all, but like ninety eight percent
of them are a mess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, learn you know exactly exactly. I'm curious to being
so young in the punk scene. Were were you easily
accepted or was there any resistance to that? Did some
people look at you like, you know, who's this kid?
Speaker 8: He's because everybody who's this kid? But he was always
I mean, look, my aunt was in the Stimulators that
band formed before I came to New York. I was
in Europe at the time. I was actually in England
when they were playing. I was going to shows in England.
I was going to punk shows there. I meant to
like the one hundred Club and all those legendary places
back then. Yeah, when I was ten, you know, so,
but you know, I mean, I get yeah, I definitely
was a standout character on the scene because everybody else
was an adult more or less. I mean, you had
your you know, eighteen nineteen twenty year old you know,
mostly young chicks, but you know, I was definitely uh,
but they accepted me. I mean, how do you not
accept it? Was at the show. I mean, you know
I was just walking around bumming quarters and playing timball.
Speaker 2: Well also too, I mean having a family member and
that was it your aunt who was in the band
with you?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And yeah, no, go ahead, no, So is is that?
How is that how you became a member of the band,
Because I just wonder, like, if you didn't have a
family member in the band, would people have been more
would the other members have been more resistant to bringing
you in because you were so young?
Speaker 8: Yeah? Possibly, But you know what it was, it was
really uh circumstantial like they had they were gigging band. Yeah,
they had their drummer, Bob Weier. They replaced him with
Johnny Blitz from the Dead Boys. Okay, so he was
playing right before me. And you know, I had been
going to their show. I'd seen them live a bunch
of times, and I used to I actually would get
up on stage with them once in a while and
play a song or two. And you know, I used
to go to their practices. I knew their material. And
so what happened was Johnny Blitz bailed out on them.
One time, the day of a show that I don't
know if he was like, you know, he might have
been dope, sick or something, I don't know, but he
did not show up and they couldn't find them, and
they went to his house looking for him, and he
was not answering his door and this and so andis
was like, guess what, Harley, You're playing drum tonight. And
I was like, all right, you know, And I remember
the show actually was in Philadelphia, the first show I
did with them, and I remember literally sitting in the
back of the band with a phone book and drumsticks,
like playing the whole way up, just trying to, you know,
remember all the parts to the songs. And that was it, man,
that first show. The the audience was so receptive and excited,
and you know they I think it was really we
were probably one of the first New York punk bands
to ever make it to you know, North Carolina and
South Carolina and stuff like that, so they were super
pumped and and people were blown away. I mean, we
had two chicks in the band and a little kid
in this crazy little day dude on vocals. We were
definitely you definitely interesting, you know, there was nothing else
like hers, that's for damn sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of how it.
Speaker 8: Started for me. And I mean I had already, I
had been in a band already, I was already out
doing stuff. I'd been on a tour already, and yeah,
I mean this has been my whole life, dude. I've
been literally playing music and going to show since before
I can remember. I mean my mom was a hippie
and used to bring me to concerts and clubs and
you know, before I remember. Yeah, you know, if you
see photos of like Jefferson Airplane and there's like all,
you know, naked children running around in front of State,
I was one of them. Yeah. Yeah, there was no
time before music in my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And then so so then was there anything
between the Stimulators and the Cromags or was the Chromags
the next band for you?
Speaker 8: I was in a band called Mode of Ignorance, Okay,
and I was also a founding member of the band
Murphy's Law. I actually came up with the name of
that band. But you know, I think the most significant
thing that I've done musically has been the Chromags. You know,
We've we've been going now strong since our first record
came out in eighty six. The first recordings that we
did came out, we put them out in like eighty
four on cassette, I believe it or not. Yeah, and
we've been you know, I've been active ever since, you know,
so yeah, pretty long run. Yeah, things are going well.
I mean we're still out playing out playing festivals and
you know, life is good.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 8: You know, most bands don't last you know, five minutes
forget about plus years.
Speaker 2: No, it is remarkable. I mean do you feel the
weight of that legacy? I mean, it's it's because you
you were at the forefront of so much. Uh, especially
you know, the way the way you started out in
New York and everything and the scene. I mean do
you feel like, like, like, do people talk to you
and they tell you, oh man, You're like, like, obviously
you get a lot of credit for what you've done.
I mean, is that ever overwhelming to you? Do you
feel like a certain level of responsibility that that like
you have to continue to to carry that flag, carry
that banner and and and really represent or or are
you just are you comfortable with it all?
Speaker 8: Uh? That's a good question. You know, it's a little
bit of both. I guess. Yeah, I mean, I I
I'm comfortable with it because I have never known anything else. Yeah,
you know, I've been on stage since I was, you know,
a kid, So you know, I mean people have been
taking pictures of me since I was a kid. You know,
people I've always uh treated me a little different, you know. Sure,
but then again, you know, I this is the weird part. Okay. Like,
so I grew up in music and playing and everything,
but I also lived in like a really bad neighborhood.
You know, Lower East Side was dangerous. It was pretty
scary back then, a lot of gangs, a lot of drugs,
and so I like my day life was like I
was getting pretty much picked on, you know, beat up
or jumped or whatever, you know, messed with and life
kind of sucked. Yeah, and then you know, the sun
goes down and I'm at the clubs and I'm like
a happening almost celebrity type. So it was like definitely
a weird you know mix of you know, elements in
my life. But I'm just lucky I had the music
because you know, I fell into drugs pretty hard early.
I go into a lot of crime. I you know,
I was homeless for a lot of years. I moved
out of my moms when I was like fifteen, fourteen fifteen,
and yeah, I want hiking out to the West Coast,
and I was, you know, living in a lot of squats.
I lived in, you know, abandoned I lived in an
abandoned brewery. I was actually living in like in an
air vent for a while in it. And you know,
you would just find someplace that you could be safe,
you know, someplace where you weren't going to get you know,
accosted or you know violated, you know, right in the night.
You know, you'd find someplace where you can sleep. You
have groups of friends that you know, you kind of
where each other's support system. You know. Yeah, I really was,
you know, shoplifting to eat. And you know, I went
through a period where I was, you know a bit
of a criminal, you know, I mean I was robbing people.
You know, I've done some things that are quite regrettable.
But you know, when you're on the street and you're
a kid, and you know, you you sometimes forced into
situations that are not just awkward, but you know, sometimes
you have to do things that you might not normally
do if you were living a different life.
Speaker 2: You know, right right. One of the interviews that I watched,
I'd like to give credit to whoever it was you
were talking to, but now I can't remember because I
watched several of them, but you were talking about this
about how no matter how bad things get, you know,
sometimes all it takes is one good thing to just
kind of turn everything around for you, and then it
makes everything that happened up to that point suddenly is
not a big deal because you have that triumph of
overcoming it all. And I've just found that really inspiring
because it is true. You know, we've we've all been
through those times where we're at our absolute lowest point
and then, uh, you know, and then sometimes all it
takes is one good thing, whether it's luck or whatever
it is that they can really turn everything around for you.
And that's why I find your story very inspiring.
Speaker 8: You know what I tell people all the time, You know,
there was a period well, I mean there's been many
times in my life where I actually probably should have
given up or you know, but I just you know,
many times I've felt that way. But you you know,
your lungs are still going to fill with air. You're
you know, you're still going to be sitting there. You know,
you can mentally want to give up, but your body's
still sitting there. And then okay, I give up. Okay,
now what Okay? Now I need to eat, Now I
need to sleep. Okay. So actually I don't really have
the opera the choice of giving up. I'm just you know, emotionally,
I feel like I'm giving up, but I'm still alive
and I still have to exist and fight through this,
you know, and yeah, you know I I And what
I tell people is, you know, like when my my
life absolutely took a dive, like I, you know, I
in twenty twelve, I was really I hit a wall.
I like the mother and my kids split on me
and took my kids. I got assaulted going through a
promags show that I wasn't playing. It was like a
fraudulent promags and like I got assaulted by like a
bunch of gang members and wow up in the hospital
and rikers. Yeah, I put three dudes. I got jumped
by like about six seven dudes. I got stabbed. I
got like forty something stitches, but I put three of
them in the hospital. They all walked away knowing that
I'm definitely not someone to play with, right, you know,
part of my reputation, Like, you know, my reputation increased
that night because all these guys thought they were tough,
and they realized you don't corner a wild animal. You
just don't. Yeah, and you know, so my life really
took a turn for the worst. I was sitting in
Riker's ould, like, oh my god, my you know, the
mother and my kids. I've been with her fourteen years.
She just like gripped my heart out and threw it
in the gutter, and she took my kids from me.
The only good thing that I feel like I had
ever really achieved was being you know, father to them.
The music and all that other stuff didn't matter to
me as much as you know, fixing my own childhood
through being their father. You know, I was doing all
the things that I didn't get to do. I was,
you know, going to playgrounds and going to museums and
doing all the things that I should have been doing
when I was a kid but wasn't right. You know,
I was finally lived that and then all of a
sudden everything just got crushed and I really could have
given up. You know, I was in the newspapers not
on the news. I was you know, I was in
cab TV. You know, punk rockers, stabs, bl blah lah lah.
You know, it was like this big, big drama.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
Speaker 8: You know, fast forward and uh, I'm in the best
place I've ever been in in my life. You know,
if you would have told me that, then I would
have said, you know, if if you would have told
me I was going to go through the next however
many years, you know, ten years before I would really feel,
you know, like I was back on top of my game,
I would have given up. I probably would have said,
you know what for me now, because I don't think
I can last that long feeling this way. Yeah, but
you know now that I am on the other side
that you know, it's it's in my rear view mirror. Man,
it's another It's just another. Yeah. It was rough. Yeah,
it was tough, but you know what, I'm still here
and I'm doing great. And that's why I say to
people all the time, it doesn't matter how bad things
are or what you're going through, something could change all
of that and you just you don't have the strength
or the will to get to that point. You know,
you're not gonna know you know, if you just if
you your life or give up or whatever, you know,
like you don't, you'll never know what could have happened,
what good could have came to you. I mean, death
is inevitable. It's like the one thing we don't have
to work for. It's coming, right, So why run to it?
Why run that direction? You're gonna get there? And if
you just slow down your pace a little bit and
try to enjoy the ride a little bit and like
look around as you're moving, you know, life is actually
pretty amazing, you know. I mean, yeah, it's full of trauma,
full of drama, full of pain, suffering and everything else.
But that's not all there is, right right, well very
well said yeah. You know.
Speaker 2: By the way, so when you when you went on
through all that in twenty twelve, like, what what did
you what did you do to help help yourself get
through it? I mean, did you did you just kind
of lean more on the jiu jitsu or I mean what,
uh is there anything specific that you did to really
help yourself pull through that?
Speaker 8: You know what it was just a string of good fortune,
you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I had been working on a book for a while
and around that time I met the person that I
eventually wound up marrying, and uh oh, she became my
She was you know, she had a PhD. And you
know she, I'm sorry, has a PhD. She's you know,
super smart, she's a lawyer, she's a CEO of her
own company. She's really got her she's she's one of
the most you know, inspiring and as kicking humans I've known.
And you know, she had started working on editing my
book with me right before all this happened, So she
knew that what she was seeing in the news and
everything was not true. Yeah, and she believed in me.
She had she knew I wasn't this psycho who went
on like a stabbing spree at a nightclub. She was like,
I see him with his kids all the time. He's
like a good guy. He's a good person, he's a
great father, he's he does have a heart. He's not
this crazy madman. So yeah, you know, we just got
closer and closer. And I got to say that between her,
between her and Henzo Gracie and having that the academy
and you know, that really gave me what I needed,
just the support system to keep going. And and again,
you know, one thing people need to know too, is like,
you know, you can have your heart broken, you can
have your spirit broken, but you know, the heart heals. Man,
It's like one of the most resilient muscles in the body,
you know. I mean, I'm I never thought I'd be
able to love someone again, and I'm again. I'm I'm
happier than I've ever been. I'm in the best relationship
I've ever been in. And so I mean, I guess
the moral of this is, no matter how bleak things seem,
you really just can't give up. You know, you actually can't.
You know, life is too beautiful to just throw in
the towel.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 8: You got to fight for what you want, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And also too, I mean, you're you know,
you're you've kept yourself an incredible physical shape. The most
most men your age I don't are not in the
kind of physical shape that you're in. And you know, obviously,
how we take care of ourselves physically affects how we
feel mentally and emotionally and all of that. So that's
that's an important piece of this too, I think.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I exercise every day. I do like
an hour of cardio almost like I do between forty
minutes to an hour of cardio every day. And you know,
I changed jiu jitsu and box. You know, at least
a couple of times a week. I do at least
thirty minutes of shadow boxing every day. I'm I'm, I'm
border I obsessed, you know. And but there's you know
reasons it starts it. I'm in great shape because of it. Yeah,
it helps my It helps my mind, you know, it
relieves stress. It keeps me a little bit, you know,
more grounded, and and you know, I take my job
very serious. Man. I want to go out on stage
and kill it. So I do more cardio every day
than I know I'm going to be on stage. Right,
If I know I have an hour that I have
to do, I make sure that I do an hour
of cardio every day leading up to that tour. You know,
last tour we did, we only had a half hour
set because we were opening up for Danzig, and I
had so much energy. I was like, you know, my
my show would be over and I'd be like doing
you know, a couple hundred push ups right as soon
as I walk off the stage. It's like, yeah, man,
let's go I'll go another forty minutes. Man, let's do this,
you know. So, yeah, I feel great, man, Yeah, I
feel great. My wife said the other day. You know,
I'm like, honey, I feel you know, I lost a
little weight, you know, because I've been exercising differently. I'm
not working for strength as much as as as endurance
right now. It's because I have to prioritize this tour
coming up, so I'm really working on just being able
to go all out for an hour. That's my mission,
right So, and she's like, she told me, you know, yeah,
you got you lost a little bit of weight, but
you look great. You look like you did when you
were in your twenties. And she's met me in my twenties, so,
you know what, I'm almost I'm sorry, I think I
almost said a bad word. I'm almost sixty, bro, I'm
fifty eight years old. And the fact that my wife,
who knew me in my twenties says I still look
the same like physically, you know, that says a lot. Man.
Speaker 2: It doest.
Speaker 8: I go between a six to an eight pack, depending
on how many leglifts I'd do it. I'm in shape,
I got veins in my arms, I'm still cut, you know. Yeah,
And it's important, man. You know, I see people half
my age who like struggle walking upstairs, you know. I
see people who having like a hard time getting up
off the couch. And I'm like, I see parents in
the playground who are like so out of shape that
they can't even keep up with their kids or play
with them, right right, Like, I don't even see your
point in breeding if you're going to be so out
of shape that you're just going to raise more out
of shape people like you know, do you know if
you're gonna have kids, get your life together, be healthy,
set an example for them, you know. Yeah, people, I
always let the idea of the dad bod. You know what,
when I had my kids, I started working out twice
as hard. Yeah, you know, because I'm like, I want to.
I want to set an example for them. I want
them to know that health is wealth.
Speaker 7: Man.
Speaker 8: You know, you've got to work. You got to take
care of yourself. You got to get in there and grind. Man.
I used to bring their strollers to the gym with me,
you know, and they'd sit there in their strollers while
I was working out. You know, I started bringing them
to the academy when they were like six months old.
I wanted them to see, this is what men are
supposed to do. This supposed to be in shape, They're
supposed to be active. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I've always said, well, I've always said too,
there's a there's a weird thing culturally in the United States,
and maybe this exists other places too. But you know, we, uh,
we feed our I don't have any children on my own,
but you know, we feed our kids like almost right
out of the shoot, all kinds of sugar and and
you know it's like, uh, you know, right right out
of the gate. We teach our kids, you know, this
is what this is what you should enjoy the most
is cake and and candy and all this stuff. And
then we raise generations of diabetics, you know, and and
and and gee, I wonder why, you know bad.
Speaker 8: It's you know, all part of a bigger picture. I mean,
the you know, they want to I say, they I
hate to turn into one of those people. But it's
like basically, if they you know, they want you as
long as long as you could be part of the workforce,
and then and then they just want you to pay
medical bills. You know, it's just like, how can the
system get the most out of you and give you
the least and just keep you, you know, another little
meaningless screw in the machine, right, you know, it's like
work hard, get sick, and keep giving them money till
you die, you know. And you know, and I do
think it's I hate using the word conspiracy, but I
do think that there is a little bit of a
you know, throughout the history of this country, they've done
a lot of you know, they really have polluted us.
You know, there's a lot of foods in this country
that are not even legal in other countries, like food
colorings and different artificials, sweeteners, and various ingredients and chemicals
that they use in our foods that are literally banned
in other countries. What did all tell you that? That
tells you that somebody's making money off of keeping us unhealthy.
You know, I've been a vegetarian since nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you know I was you know, I
was surprised by that too. You mentioned that in one
of the interviews that I watched, and that was interesting
to me because I would imagine a lot of people
you tell that too, are surprised because you know, you've
got a lot of muscle on you. And I think
there's a obviously it's a misconception because you're a proof
of this this idea that you can't you know that
if you're a vegetarian, you can't build muscle. But you
obviously have built muscle as a vegetarian, and as you said,
you've been a vegetarian for a very long time.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Well, you know what, there's a lot of myths
in the health industry, you know, I mean, they do
most of their research on rats, you know, I mean,
and rats require a lot more protein than people. Yeah,
but you know, and also people don't realize that there
is actually protein and vegetables, you know. I mean, for
you know, like all those fake burgers that they make now,
like what they call impossible, that stuffs made from like
pea protein. You know, peas have protein, Broccoli has protein.
You know. So and unless you're like trying to you
don't be like a bodybuilder. You don't really as much
protein as people think. Yeah, you know, and so unless
unless you're like literally trying to you know, bulk up
and you know, be like you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger or
something you don't need. You know, people are always talking
about you need one grand of protein for every you know,
I don't. I don't know if all that's true, man.
I mean, yeah, I know I'm in good shape.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 8: My wife just put out a book book too, So
I mean it's are interested in what I eat for for,
you know, to maintain she put just Laura Leaf Flanagan.
She just put out a book called Hardcore Vegetarian. And
it's not it's not a book that like dashes meat
eating or anything like that, you know, it's it's actually
just a lot of recipes to try to bring more
vegetables into your diet. Yeah, you know, it's not so
much about it's just about, you know, learning more about
food and adding new things to your diet that you
didn't know about and stuff. And so for people who
want to know what I do to stay in shape,
obviously I exercise a lot, but you know, what you
put into your body is critical too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Harley, we're approaching.
Speaker 8: I know meat eaters who are in great shape too.
Everybody is different, so I also I also I'm not
one of these like militant vegetarians who is like you
know I kind of used to be. But the fact
is is, you know what, vegetables at plants are also alive,
you know, so I can't judge people for eating meat.
You know, my vegetables were alive, and if any if anything,
I'm more against the you know, industrial industry of the
meat industry and like the way it like if people
were still you know, hunter gatherers like we were. You know,
factory farming is really what is destroying not just our
health but the planet. You know, like the meat industry
is really toxic, like all the pollution that comes out
of the waste and you know how I mean, it
goes on and on. I'm not going to sit here
and like preach. Anybody can do the research. But you know,
if you're gonna eat me, I think you should eat
you know, it should be healthy. It should be like
you know, grass fed, you should or you should be
hunting it yourself, or you know, there has to be
some sort of respect for for nature, right, you know, right,
you don't respect don't yourself. It's gonna go bad. It's
just you know, we see the results.
Speaker 2: Oh no, well said uh well Harley, we are The
time goes quickly. We are approaching the top of the hour,
but this has been incredible. I'm really glad you joined
us today.
Speaker 8: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely we should remind people before we go. And
by the way, in a moment we're going to I'm
gonna close out the segment with Life of my Own,
another great track, but uh, we should remind people Wired
for Chaos is coming out. It's gonna be in theaters
middle of the month. I think you said, yeah, what's
the date on that?
Speaker 8: Again, I think it's gonna be uh see, yeah, June fifteenth,
that hits the theaters. And I was doing like a
theater tour with the film with Q and A's and
and all that stuff. So it'll uh, you know, and
and then it will be available streaming and so on
and so forth. So and you know, I think it's
a it's a it's a it's a good story. It's
a good film, even if you are not interested in
you know, punk rock or hardcore music. Everybody who's seen
this thing told me that they were able to really
identify with the story, you know, because although I've had
a unique experience, you know, my life has been I
don't know if anybody else has lived a life exactly
like mine. But we've all experienced trauma. We've all experienced
you know, different types of you know, pain, stress. You know,
everybody has suffered. Everybody's gone through things that were difficult.
So I mean, I you know, whether it was you know,
you're a broken family, your parents separating, whether it was
you know, divorced, losing your kids, whether it was you know,
getting arrested, whether it was struggling with drugs or this
or that. There's a lot of things in this film
that I think most humans can identify with because nobody
has an easy ride, and I think it gives a
little bit of hope maybe, you know, I mean, because
if I made it through the things I made it through,
I think I think most people, I think just about anybody,
can you know what I mean? A lot of people
out there have suffered harder than me. But you know
a lot of people have suffered harder than me and
done well right, right, So that who said, I just
don't believe in giving up. And if I can give
anybody just a little bit of hope or strength to
believe in yourself, then you know, then my time on
this earth was not a waste.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well said, well said. I agree. And by
the way too, I'll remind people you've got a great website,
Harley Flanagan dot com for people who want to learn
more about you and about the film. And and you've
got a tour coming up and coming up really fast. Right,
you're you're that Monday, all right, very good, very good.
Speaker 8: Germany somewhere on Tuesday or Wednesday. And the day I
get home, I'm doing a Q and A. So yeah,
let's do it.
Speaker 2: You gotta you got a full schedule. Well listen, so
we'll we'll close with this track Life of my Own,
but we'll let you go. Harley flan again, thank you
so much. Let's let's do this again in the future.
I could, uh, I could talk to you forever. Man.
This has been fascinating. So I'm really glad you joined
us this morning.
Speaker 8: This fun and you can have me on anytime. It
would be a pleasure to talk to you again.
Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome, all right, Harley flanagain, thank you so much,
my friend.
Speaker 8: Take care my pleasure.
Speaker 2: Alright, you got it, Bye bye, all right, Harley Flanagan
of the Crowmaggs And I'm really looking forward to seeing
the documentary Wired for Chaos, and we're gonna end with
this track. This is another great song. This is called
a Life of My Own. And if you are listening
live on Saturday, make sure you stick around. Our number
two is coming up.
Speaker 8: What is the.
Speaker 2: You'll fight by your lives, You'll fight us the Wow,
you'll come and tell us?
Speaker 3: Whoa when mothering?
Speaker 2: The accept yourself?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeahs wol.
Speaker 3: With nothing.
Speaker 1: Accept yourself, so what you want.
Speaker 3: And how you don't want it?
Speaker 2: Sounds like poll do it praying yourself, preople, the.
Speaker 3: Press were all the town. You let rest.
Speaker 2: Your time, jell us, whoa with mother except yourself