Speaker 1: Good evening, everybody. UH been a call the workshop meeting
Speaker 1: the barcol Barbsolle City Council to order tonight. Uh, I
Speaker 1: wanna welcome everybody. We've got a lot of people here
Speaker 1: tonight to speak. Want everybody get their three minutes in.
Speaker 1: If you're hearing comments that UH people have said before,
Speaker 1: be as expetitious as you can. If you wanna still
Speaker 1: come up and introduce yourself to us and let us
Speaker 1: know who you are and have your comments to be made.
Speaker 1: Bring him forward. We look forward to hearing him. Let's
Speaker 1: have a nice civil conversation tonight.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: We've had these conversations before. We appreciate everybody bringing your
Speaker 1: comments back here to night and we'll work room as
Speaker 1: quickly as you can to night. Uh. I wanna call uh,
Speaker 1: We'll call establishment in a forum.
Speaker 3: Hey La, Mayor Kurt here, nice mayor force hee er,
Speaker 3: mister Patch.
Speaker 1: Here, mister east here.
Speaker 4: Mister Sherry, please have a conflict or something I think
Speaker 4: so very good?
Speaker 1: Item three, Uh invocation of ask uh Uh councilor Kirk
Speaker 1: Patrick pet give our invcation night, appreciate it if you would,
Speaker 1: thanks sure.
Speaker 5: Let's pray.
Speaker 1: Lord.
Speaker 6: Do we ask that your spirit of unity and peace
Speaker 6: would be upon us tonight. We know that these are
Speaker 6: deep waters. We know that these are emotionally high topics.
Speaker 6: We know that every single one of us is coming
Speaker 6: into this conversation with our perspective, with our values, with
Speaker 6: the things that we care deeply about, and the people
Speaker 6: that we care deeply about.
Speaker 5: Lord, help us to keep each.
Speaker 6: Other firmly in mind. May we be focused on the
Speaker 6: good of our community. May that be the thing that
Speaker 6: we were wrestling together towards the betterment of our community,
Speaker 6: even through our disagreements. So may these conversations be productive,
Speaker 6: May they be healthy, and may they be helpful. We
Speaker 6: pray in Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker 1: Very good. I remember four citizens to be heard. So
Speaker 1: we've got people in here and people next door. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call the first two names as best I can.
Speaker 1: So if they're in there, they can come into the
Speaker 1: hallway and be ready. Mispronounced several of 'em. So don't
Speaker 1: yell at me. If I do, just correct me and
Speaker 1: we'll we'll get those people up here and have those
Speaker 1: uh help them speak to us. So first two people
Speaker 1: are Avan Higgs and Angela Wiley.
Speaker 7: Alright, and your name.
Speaker 5: Thank you for thank your city Council and Mayor.
Speaker 8: My name is Avery Higgs A V E R Y
Speaker 8: H I ggs for my friends in the media for
Speaker 8: the back. I am with the Washington County Democratic Party
Speaker 8: as the affirm of Action.
Speaker 5: Officer in Bars of Oklahoma.
Speaker 8: Proposed drag regulations directly violate the First Amendment of the
Speaker 8: Constitution of the United States and the First Amendment of
Speaker 8: Oklahoma's Constitution, which guarantees the freedom of speech and expression.
Speaker 8: Drag performances, like any other forms of artistic expression, are
Speaker 8: protected under the bow of rights. These show ye how.
Speaker 5: Are a way to.
Speaker 8: For individuals to communicate ideas, childd e terratorypes and celebrate
Speaker 8: creativity after bending, blending humor, performancing, performance, art, and cultural commentary.
Speaker 5: Thank you for good Thank you.
Speaker 9: Angela Wiley him my name is Angela Utley U T
Speaker 9: L E Y.
Speaker 10: And I came here to talk about UH.
Speaker 9: I have two trans people in my family, both for
Speaker 9: homeschool conservative homeschools.
Speaker 11: On my aud you know they were.
Speaker 12: The culture did not affect them in this way.
Speaker 13: I believe in by science.
Speaker 4: That being transgender is a physical, biological fact, you know,
Speaker 4: and definitely in these two paces I think it's a
Speaker 4: misnomer to say otherwise, and maybe symmetric patient might help.
Speaker 9: As far as the drag shows, I believe it's a
Speaker 9: freedom of expression. They wear many different layers of clothes.
Speaker 9: Some of the things I've seen online and through some
Speaker 9: of my fellow citizens have been alarming, and I'm quite
Speaker 9: disgusted by the behaviors some of the ulter conservative people.
Speaker 9: I believe Bartisville should be a safe environment for all.
Speaker 9: I believe it is a safe environment with the drag shows.
Speaker 13: In the way they've been presented.
Speaker 9: So UH, I wanna keep my time short, but I'm
Speaker 9: definitely invested in my family in Bartisville, in Oklahoma.
Speaker 10: If for the safety of everyone.
Speaker 9: So with that, I'm concluded, and thank you for hearing me,
Speaker 9: Mayor in the council people of this room.
Speaker 5: Thank thank you for good Thank you.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 1: The next two will be UH Lachelle Griffin and UH
Speaker 1: Reverend Kelly beck Beckermer What.
Speaker 5: HI first?
Speaker 15: Before I start, I would like to mis tell everybody
Speaker 15: in this room. I love people in general, so I disagree.
Speaker 15: It's because of my own life experiences. But anyhow, and
Speaker 15: I appreciate you, counselmen. I'm just struggling disagree with you
Speaker 15: right now, and I'm about to tell you what great
Speaker 15: proposal for regulation of drag events and public spaces. The
Speaker 15: purpose of this proposal is to request the city council's
Speaker 15: consideration a reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions on public
Speaker 15: drag events, especially those involving children. This is grounded in
Speaker 15: legal precedent, community standards, and a concern for the welfare
Speaker 15: of children and the dignity of women that those times
Speaker 15: of places should not involve common property such as schools, parks,
Speaker 15: or other properties held in common First Amendment Time, place,
Speaker 15: and manner restrictions. The First Amendment allows for reasonable restrictions
Speaker 15: on the time and place and manner of speech. US
Speaker 15: Supreme Court decision and Cox versus New Hampshire nineteen forty
Speaker 15: one established that such restrictions are conditionally permissible. What the
Speaker 15: First Amendment does not allow. The First Amendment doesn't allow
Speaker 15: speech that incites illegal activity or violence. We've had city
Speaker 15: councilors against drag threatened with acts of violence. Billy Rode
Speaker 15: Trevor Dorsey both received attacks, and we have new attacks
Speaker 15: coming towards our two newest counselors, our third one doesn't
Speaker 15: seem to be heard of one also defamation. You cannot
Speaker 15: defeme people. There's alabel in a standard. There's much with
Speaker 15: drag that defames women as provocative dancers.
Speaker 5: Obscenity does not allowed.
Speaker 15: The average person would find the material appeals to interests
Speaker 15: when you hand out dollar bills to tip. The material
Speaker 15: depicts sexual contact in paternively offensive way. Material lacks serious, literary, artistic, political,
Speaker 15: or scientific value. We can easily attest that the average
Speaker 15: person would view Drey to have purient interest. Number four
Speaker 15: child exploitation and obscene material involving minors New York versus
Speaker 15: Favor in nineteen eighty two. You can also look.
Speaker 1: At Miller.
Speaker 15: Funding words speech that is personally abusive and likely to
Speaker 15: provoke an immediately violent response. Nope, the threats The city
Speaker 15: councils has received true threats speech that constitutes a truth threat,
Speaker 15: such as threats of violence against specific groups. The City
Speaker 15: Council on September third, twenty twenty five voted that this
Speaker 15: event brings a threat to the community and ordered police
Speaker 15: to be president of.
Speaker 5: The event, so they set up presidents.
Speaker 15: Then I was personally threatened online for disagreement with this stuff.
Speaker 15: Threatened to be abused, and I've already part of the
Speaker 15: reason up against it is because of grooming.
Speaker 5: I experienced it personally.
Speaker 1: I show you're three minutes through and can you wrap
Speaker 1: it up?
Speaker 5: Yep? I can't.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: So, by understanding with the First Amendment.
Speaker 15: Does not a lot of governments and communities can responsibly
Speaker 15: regulate public events or speech while still respectfully respecting constitutional rights.
Speaker 15: This retort proposal is not an attack on any specific group,
Speaker 15: but a call to uphold community values, protect children, and
Speaker 15: ensure public events are conducted responsibly where respectfully.
Speaker 5: Urish the city.
Speaker 15: Council to consider the fooling required drag events to be
Speaker 15: held indoors and charge security fees to your organizers. Prohibit
Speaker 15: children from attending drag events in public spaces. Align regulations
Speaker 15: with existing community standards. I've sent you, guys an attachment
Speaker 15: that clearly outlines all of that, and I will make.
Speaker 5: It publicly available on Facebook for people to yell at me.
Speaker 1: Kelly Becker, and after her will be Hillary clumpland okay,
Speaker 1: and then Spencer Bradley. Bradley if they're next door, excuse.
Speaker 13: Me, go ahead, what do you mean, I'm reverend Kelly Becker.
Speaker 3: I appreciate so much your uh willingness to listen to
Speaker 3: the citizens on this issue.
Speaker 13: Some of you have heard me talk about this for
Speaker 13: and so uh my opinions won't be new to you.
Speaker 1: I UH think that.
Speaker 13: My frustration with this entire conversation in Bartlesville is that
Speaker 13: of four years, drag queens have been part of Pride.
Speaker 3: Celebrations, not only in Bartlesville but all over the country.
Speaker 3: And this became a problem in Bartlesville during a campaign.
Speaker 3: Uh and uh someone who was running for city council
Speaker 3: used this issue to divide the community and quite frankly,
Speaker 3: we haven't recovered since we've been arguing about this for
Speaker 3: two years.
Speaker 13: People are are being threatened over it. I have been threatened.
Speaker 3: Members of my church have been threatened. Our church has
Speaker 3: been protested. And so when we talk about we're we
Speaker 3: wanna have a civilized conversation around this, I don't think
Speaker 3: there's a problem having a civilized conversation.
Speaker 13: We've been trying to do that for a couple of years.
Speaker 3: But I don't want us to forget that drag is
Speaker 3: part of the LGBTQIA plus culture and has been forever.
Speaker 3: That's not the problem. The LGBTQ plus community is not
Speaker 3: the problem. Drag queens are not the problem. The problem
Speaker 3: is a lack of hospitality for.
Speaker 13: People who are different from us, and that is what
Speaker 13: we need to address.
Speaker 3: And I really really hope that that would be something
Speaker 3: that the city Council would think about as you are
Speaker 3: making decisions about ordinances and about the way in which
Speaker 3: we should proceed. I would hope that you would have
Speaker 3: in mind that some of us who have been part
Speaker 3: of this conversation for years have been getting threats for years.
Speaker 3: Some of us who have been part of this conversation
Speaker 3: for years have spent a lot of time talking to
Speaker 3: other people and trying to understand other viewpoints, and so
Speaker 3: I I ask you to keep in mind the unity
Speaker 3: of our city and to keep in mind that we
Speaker 3: all have work to do listening to one another kids.
Speaker 13: But I think the problem is the lack of hospitality
Speaker 13: for people who disagree with us, and I hope that
Speaker 13: you will address it.
Speaker 1: That it's Hillary, Yeah, it's Hillary Camp. You're good.
Speaker 12: I think you very tight.
Speaker 10: I love living in bartles Hilly. Do I think we
Speaker 10: have a really special place here on the prairie. We
Speaker 10: have a beautiful study.
Speaker 13: We have lovely neighbors do.
Speaker 16: We have a vibrant community that is growing and thriving,
Speaker 16: and we are truly at our best when we make
Speaker 16: space for everyone in our in our community. And I
Speaker 16: see on UH the an upcoming discussion point on the
Speaker 16: agenda as relating to adult oriented entertainment in public spaces,
Speaker 16: and so if we're going to talk about adult oriented
Speaker 16: entertainment in public spaces, I really wanna address that as
Speaker 16: a member of the Bartisvilla.
Speaker 10: Quality Board, because we do have UH public drag performances
Speaker 10: as part of our Pride celebrations.
Speaker 16: As a mother of two boys who I love very
Speaker 16: much and I've always been very careful of and how.
Speaker 10: I raise them, I I wanna speak to the adult
Speaker 10: oriented nature of.
Speaker 16: Of what we're being accused of doing in public because
Speaker 16: our drive performance as a Pride that our public and
Speaker 16: open to children are not adult themed whatsoever. It's an
Speaker 16: the same level of UH someone in a costume as
Speaker 16: you would see when you go to six Golds and
Speaker 16: watch the Batman Show when there's someone on a zip
Speaker 16: line and tights. I grew up watching Adam West arguably
Speaker 16: the best Batman, and.
Speaker 10: I don't want to hear anything about it.
Speaker 16: Valve Kilmer Batman is one of my very favorites, and
Speaker 16: so when you look at the drag performances that we're.
Speaker 10: Doing in public with children, it.
Speaker 16: Would do the same as when people in superhero costumes
Speaker 16: go to Children's UH.
Speaker 11: Cancer Awards, for example.
Speaker 10: Like it's that same level of costuming and play.
Speaker 16: It's just a little bit different colors it's and I
Speaker 16: don't think we can get hung up on the color
Speaker 16: of tight someone's wearing when they're UH performing in in
Speaker 16: an appropriate way.
Speaker 10: So this last this last Pride, we were very careful
Speaker 10: in our selection of music.
Speaker 16: It was all radio edits. We were very careful, and
Speaker 16: the movements that the drag Queens UH performed, we were
Speaker 16: all very careful because so many of us have children
Speaker 16: and we wanna make sure that we aren't doing anything
Speaker 16: inappropriate because we do understand children. My background is in
Speaker 16: theater and costuming, and so this is d just another
Speaker 16: expression of play. And so I just I really want
Speaker 16: to push back on the idea that the drag performances
Speaker 16: that Barnesville Whality is hosted in public our adult oriented,
Speaker 16: because they truly have not been and You've been very
Speaker 16: careful about that. Do we have twenty one and over
Speaker 16: events that are drive focused? Of course, would we ever
Speaker 16: let a child and that obviously not, But that's not
Speaker 16: what this is. So I just encourage you to consider
Speaker 16: that as we move forward and make space for this beautiful,
Speaker 16: vibrant community to be a good neighborhood for everybody, including
Speaker 16: the people who rely on the expression of drive to
Speaker 16: uh feel welcome and accepted in this community.
Speaker 10: So thank you so much for your time, and I
Speaker 10: really do appreciate.
Speaker 1: Good Thank you, thank you. Uh that's your brandly Brandly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, and behind him will be uh Noah Meadows,
Speaker 1: let's see. Thanks. I've heard of this brandly.
Speaker 17: It was my first time coming since I was a
Speaker 17: boy scout, so that was a really borning meeting you
Speaker 17: more excited.
Speaker 5: I have a statement.
Speaker 17: Drag performances are a form of artistic expression that celebrate creativity, inclusivity,
Speaker 17: and self expression. The proposed ordinance claims to protect children,
Speaker 17: but it raises serious concerns about free speech and parental rights.
Speaker 17: I went to the drag performance. It was my first
Speaker 17: one I'd ever gone to this last this last summer.
Speaker 5: It was fun.
Speaker 18: I was there with my four children.
Speaker 17: We go to Bartlesville schools. We live in this community.
Speaker 17: We go to the parks, and we also went to
Speaker 17: the drag performance.
Speaker 5: It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 17: They danced, they sang, we had some treats. There was
Speaker 17: a bounce house. It wasn't dangerous. Nobody was groomed. In fact,
Speaker 17: you could all look it up right now. See if
Speaker 17: you've ever found a case.
Speaker 18: Of grooming at a drag event or anything crime.
Speaker 5: Related at a drag event.
Speaker 17: Kay, there's just not evidence for that.
Speaker 5: It doesn't happen. So I am all four protecting children.
Speaker 18: Like I said, I have four of them.
Speaker 17: But this this proposal, Sorry I got off script, this proposal.
Speaker 17: I'm sorry, I don't have the I don't have it
Speaker 17: right up with me. It was basically saying that we're
Speaker 17: worried that maybe the kids would feel bad about themselves
Speaker 17: and get depressed if they saw a drag report performance.
Speaker 17: That's how I understood the reading, which I think is
Speaker 17: just pretty ridiculous. There's a lot of other things that
Speaker 17: are more depressing about a than a drag performance. For example,
Speaker 17: my children might be worried about going to school sometimes,
Speaker 17: and if that's safe and every day I walk my
Speaker 17: children to school, there's an armed guard there.
Speaker 5: That could also cause a lot of.
Speaker 19: Depression and anxiety regarding going to school. But nobody's talking
Speaker 19: about banning school. How do you, well, I guess some
Speaker 19: people are.
Speaker 17: My point is there's a lot of things it could
Speaker 17: make somebody depressed, and going to a drag event, in
Speaker 17: my experience, is not one of them.
Speaker 5: It was fun. My kids loved it.
Speaker 20: We had a great time.
Speaker 17: Everyone there was happy, face is painted, flamboyant outfits.
Speaker 5: It was fun. Let me see if I have anything else.
Speaker 5: I see I have some extra time.
Speaker 17: Restricting drag events harms our communities, cultural vibrancy, and local
Speaker 17: economy by chilling artistic expression and discouraging events that foster inclusivity.
Speaker 7: I moved to Bartlesville on purpose.
Speaker 5: I'm not from here.
Speaker 17: I lived about an hour away and we were always
Speaker 17: coming to Bartlesville for events like the Christmas Parade and
Speaker 17: the u A Fun Fat the Summer SunFest. So we
Speaker 17: like Barnsville and we wanted to be a place where
Speaker 17: people can come, be happy, have fun. In my opinion,
Speaker 17: it's a great family activity to go to the drag event,
Speaker 17: and I want Bartlesville to stay a family.
Speaker 1: Friendly place and allow.
Speaker 5: Artistic expression.
Speaker 1: Thank your people, Thank you, pry no One, n Noah,
Speaker 1: Noah met my name is Noa will Be and Franklin.
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you.
Speaker 21: I wanna introduce myself to you all. Some of you
Speaker 21: already know me, some of you may not. My father
Speaker 21: his name was Bernard Meadows, Bernie Meadows. He was a
Speaker 21: vibrant member of this community who spoke out often for
Speaker 21: many marginalized voices, and he showed up in many networking
Speaker 21: and nonprofit volunteer ways. And one thing that he did
Speaker 21: relentlessly was show up for queer youth in trans youth.
Speaker 21: I came out at the age of fifteen here in
Speaker 21: this town in twenty eleven, and I was scared, and
Speaker 21: I was depressed, and I was alone. I felt so
Speaker 21: alone because I didn't know anybody who else was trans.
Speaker 21: And I think it's really important that we have events
Speaker 21: like public drag where it's a really beautiful f showcase
Speaker 21: of self expression and just vionrant art and enjoy.
Speaker 13: The first drag show.
Speaker 21: I ever attended was actually at the Open Arms Youth Project,
Speaker 21: which is now defunct in Tulsa. It was one of
Speaker 21: the first spaces I ever got to exist in where
Speaker 21: I saw other people like me, and it helped me
Speaker 21: continue to fight to be in this life. To put
Speaker 21: it very succinctly, and sorry if it's too blunt for
Speaker 21: the city halls, but without seeing others like me, and
Speaker 21: without seeing the freedom of expression that people can enjoy
Speaker 21: and their self expression, I simply would not be here
Speaker 21: because I was incredibly suicidal.
Speaker 11: And I think it's so important. I think it's so
Speaker 11: important that mean have these spaces.
Speaker 21: Where p people can see people like them and rep
Speaker 21: I had prepared a whole like list of bullet points
Speaker 21: to to go back to, but I don't think I'm
Speaker 21: going to that right now. But also at the end
Speaker 21: of the day, drag has been around since sh Shakespeare's time, right,
Speaker 21: Drag has always been a form of.
Speaker 11: Art that we have used and y I will say,
Speaker 11: back in Shakespeare's time it was.
Speaker 21: Also probably used in very misogynistic ways because it was
Speaker 21: used to keep women out of theater for.
Speaker 11: A while as well.
Speaker 21: But now it is not exclusive to gender, it's not
Speaker 21: exclusive to sexuality, it's not exclusive to religion. It is
Speaker 21: something that anybody from any walk of life can find
Speaker 21: themselves in, and I think it's really important that we
Speaker 21: recognize that it's not this overarching bad experience where somebody
Speaker 21: could be roomed, because, let's be honest, you could.
Speaker 11: Honestly, I was groomed.
Speaker 21: By my straight mother, by my straight mother who brought
Speaker 21: strangers into the house, and no one was in drag.
Speaker 11: No one was in drag, and I was still hard.
Speaker 11: She lost custody of me. But you know that is
Speaker 11: what that is.
Speaker 15: I'm sorry going on, I didn't no one, no one.
Speaker 22: She's speaking while people are speaking, is it clemmin rule.
Speaker 22: I believe that the mayor called for respect in this
Speaker 22: and respect me sitting quiet and while I'm just talk.
Speaker 21: Thank you, thank you to them, and thank you for
Speaker 21: your time. I had a closing moment that I it's
Speaker 21: lost now, but thank you for your time. I believe
Speaker 21: that drag should be something that we should be able
Speaker 21: to experience and express. And I think that the youth
Speaker 21: should be able to see themselves and the adults because
Speaker 21: they are the ones who inherit the earth. They are
Speaker 21: the one who inherit this planet, and what we leave,
Speaker 21: we should leave it better than we've had it.
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and Franklin and after that both, uh, vere
Speaker 1: your bad?
Speaker 13: What are your pretty?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 13: Experien excited?
Speaker 5: Oh excuse me?
Speaker 14: Oh? Thank you? Cool?
Speaker 13: Hello everyone, I hope you've all been staying warm. It's
Speaker 13: been pretty cold.
Speaker 23: I've a Franklin, the founder and coorizer of Back Bartlesviil
Speaker 23: Accepting Community Coalition, where a support.
Speaker 24: Network in Bartlesville, just trying to make sure people can
Speaker 24: find each other and have community.
Speaker 13: And as we all, as we've all gathered here today, I'd.
Speaker 23: Like us to take a moment to ask ourselves why
Speaker 23: what are we here to discuss? Really, like what clothes
Speaker 23: we're allowed to wear depending on our gender, or whether
Speaker 23: we're allowed to hold public gatherings. If not, everybody in
Speaker 23: our community would enjoy the entertainment. These questions have already
Speaker 23: been discussed and were answered two hundred and thirty four
Speaker 23: years ago with the First Amendment that includes the freedom
Speaker 23: of speech and assembly. So I ask the City.
Speaker 24: Council to do your duty in protecting the First Comendment
Speaker 24: rights of all Barble School residents, regardless of their gender
Speaker 24: or sexual orientation, because.
Speaker 23: Regulations on gender based stressed are unconstitutional, legally unenforceable, and
Speaker 23: only serve to divide us as the Barbascool City fumble
Speaker 23: Will Attorney has advised you attempting to van or regulate
Speaker 23: public drag performances will only result in costly legal.
Speaker 24: Battles for the City of Barblesville, and that would be
Speaker 24: both a waste valuable financial resources that could better serve
Speaker 24: our community, but it would also further the negative national
Speaker 24: attention the city has already faced in the wake of
Speaker 24: its previous.
Speaker 13: Attempts on a previous attacks on free speech.
Speaker 24: There attempts to bar the to US LGBTQI plus community
Speaker 24: from using public spaces.
Speaker 12: The nation is watching Bartlesville, and we're better than this.
Speaker 23: We should be coming together on over common ground and
Speaker 23: working towards our community in.
Speaker 12: General, and not squabbling on differences.
Speaker 10: We can all share public spaces and just be together
Speaker 10: as a community.
Speaker 24: So I ask that you protect our person in the
Speaker 24: rights and vote against any attempts to end or regularly
Speaker 24: drag in our city's public spaces.
Speaker 13: Thank you for your time.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Jeh uh no a Volta beer mm and behind her
Speaker 1: will be Shuana and Shiuana Shauna. Shana Yeah, okay, Shana,
Speaker 1: very good.
Speaker 12: Hello.
Speaker 11: I'm Volta of the orphic sector of old query.
Speaker 25: And I'm here today not to defend drag, but to
Speaker 25: highlight the reason it is being attact in the first place.
Speaker 25: One of the core characteristics of fascism is the need
Speaker 25: to simplify the world, to simplify the world past point
Speaker 25: of reality, to create a narrative equivalent to a children's
Speaker 25: picture book and its insights, Not one that would be
Speaker 25: read at a drag story hour, but one designed as
Speaker 25: a pure product underpinning it's regalia. Vashism is a hollow
Speaker 25: ideology designed only to lull people into a child childish,
Speaker 25: dreamless sleep, so that they do not notice the true
Speaker 25: runers of society, the very heartless, who proliferate its cognitive distortion.
Speaker 10: But for what purpose?
Speaker 25: We cannot take them at their word. That much has
Speaker 25: been true as long as their thought pattern has had
Speaker 25: a name, So we turn to a material analysis. Fascism
Speaker 25: as a system arises in times of economic decline, when
Speaker 25: the well of colonial spoils runs dry. In these times,
Speaker 25: the hegemonic structures of power are vulnerable to be overtaken
Speaker 25: by new systems. Subjects of the imperial core. In this case,
Speaker 25: the United States become disaffected and start to question the
Speaker 25: legitimacy of structures of power that rule them and the
Speaker 25: narratives sold by those structures of power. This has happened
Speaker 25: countless times on a global scale, and so there need
Speaker 25: be an immune defense for hegemonic power. In the United States,
Speaker 25: we are sold the idea that we live in a
Speaker 25: meritocracy where hard work and perseverance will guarantee you stability.
Speaker 25: We are sold the idea that freedom is freedom to
Speaker 25: serve whatever master you like. We are sold the American dream.
Speaker 25: We are sold on a dissonant nonsense, and the price
Speaker 25: we pay is a imagination. Many Americans are recognizing for
Speaker 25: the first time that they have not been granted that
Speaker 25: success and stability.
Speaker 5: Promised to us.
Speaker 25: Nobody could buy a house. The vast majority are one
Speaker 25: of two miss paychecks away from homelessness. The meritocracy melts
Speaker 25: away as the brightest, the hardest working who are out
Speaker 25: on the street and are out on the street, and
Speaker 25: the highest offices are occupied those who were by those
Speaker 25: who were born into the upper class, many of which
Speaker 25: who have never broken sweat and work, have never broken
Speaker 25: ground and intellectual thinking. Like Elon Musk. People are angry.
Speaker 25: There is an answer to why this country precedes the
Speaker 25: way it does. You were never in the club to
Speaker 25: reap the benefits of its system. Even those print privileged
Speaker 25: by our institutionalized bigotry are given of pitiance, while the
Speaker 25: fruits of their labor are sent off to someone.
Speaker 5: They have not and will not ever meet.
Speaker 25: But that knowledge is dangerous to hegemonic power. To be
Speaker 25: able to describe the shape of our exploitation is to
Speaker 25: be able to deconstruct it, to turn it over, to
Speaker 25: discard it, and so the blame is shifted. For Germany,
Speaker 25: it was the anarchist, the communists, the socialists, the queer,
Speaker 25: the Romani, and of course the Jewish. The specific idea
Speaker 25: of the enemy is not so important as there is
Speaker 25: one one that does not have the societal political power
Speaker 25: to fight back. The enemy is characterized as dangerous, all
Speaker 25: powerful on a fundamental level for their difference from the norm,
Speaker 25: but also weak and incapable.
Speaker 7: The world is compressed into a narrative. It is not
Speaker 7: the system we live under that is broken.
Speaker 25: It will work exactly as intended, and you will flourish
Speaker 25: so long as we defeat our enemy. Mouthpieces for this
Speaker 25: story are a plenty, but so are its internal inconsistencies, failures,
Speaker 25: it's fractured foundational breakages.
Speaker 7: Fascism is an ideology of complete collapse.
Speaker 25: So walking blindfolded into apocalypse, whooping and hollering about eradicating
Speaker 25: its manufactured enemy. To the fascists in this room. You
Speaker 25: may not understand you are a fascist because you are
Speaker 25: never educated.
Speaker 5: On what the word means.
Speaker 25: But you are incontrovertibly a fascist. Your ideology will inevitably fail.
Speaker 25: You still have time to question it and not doom
Speaker 25: yourself to be ridiculed in the pages of history. Hanging
Speaker 25: around with your good friend Mussolini. O, thank you, thank you,
Speaker 25: Thank you.
Speaker 1: La in the doorway behind her, and will be Jim
Speaker 1: Henley behind.
Speaker 26: I am a homeowner downtown Bartlesville. We moved here with
Speaker 26: the greatest optimism. We were looking for a community of
Speaker 26: people that believed in things that were valuable to us.
Speaker 26: We came for the one hundred Miles sale, and we
Speaker 26: came here for every street we had the downtown Fourth
Speaker 26: of July Fest.
Speaker 11: It was incredible.
Speaker 12: We came to pride.
Speaker 11: I would want to start I was.
Speaker 26: I have been in some form of ministry since I
Speaker 26: was eleven years old, and I want to thank each
Speaker 26: and every one of you for the service that you
Speaker 26: give our community for safety and doing your very best.
Speaker 12: It's hard to know what to do.
Speaker 26: It's even harder to know that we don't know what
Speaker 26: is the right thing for everyone to keep us all safe.
Speaker 12: I learned from a three year old child.
Speaker 26: I was in ministry, very fundamentalist, and I I have
Speaker 26: lived for three things, my family, my community, and my God.
Speaker 12: And I learned from a three year old in a
Speaker 12: very awkward Christmas dinner.
Speaker 26: Of course, all of my family are hunters, were all
Speaker 26: in camouflage and everybody's ready to do the after Christmas hunt.
Speaker 26: And my brother that is an openly a man brought
Speaker 26: his partner with them and as we were preparing the meal,
Speaker 26: he was.
Speaker 12: Male presenting and we love this man.
Speaker 26: Greatest thing came to dinner in full drag and I
Speaker 26: was a brand new moment and a pastor in a
Speaker 26: very very small western Kansas town. I saw this child
Speaker 26: change the heart of an entire table with a softness
Speaker 26: of heart. And what it came through was questions and
Speaker 26: understanding and an open heart willing to understand something that
Speaker 26: didn't make sense.
Speaker 11: We had an entire.
Speaker 26: Table, a very conservative thought learning from a child, and
Speaker 26: I ask you, and I beg each and every one
Speaker 26: of you.
Speaker 12: To find the people that need a voice. Each of
Speaker 12: you signed up for this.
Speaker 26: Job to do right by our our community, and there
Speaker 26: is an entire section that is being left out.
Speaker 12: Please protect our culture. Drag is what keeps us alive.
Speaker 26: We have queer kids over the entire city of Bartlesville
Speaker 26: that are too scared to exist. And if you make
Speaker 26: a change for us, if you make a change and
Speaker 26: say that this is something important, just like you would
Speaker 26: at a powow, if you take the bell dresses out,
Speaker 26: is that.
Speaker 11: Powow as beautiful?
Speaker 13: No, it's not.
Speaker 12: Drag needs to stay. Needs to stay because we need
Speaker 12: a place.
Speaker 26: To be who we are, and those babies as they're
Speaker 26: coming up need to see what it is to be
Speaker 26: proud of whatever identity that you're born with.
Speaker 12: I thank you for your time, you all, and I
Speaker 12: thank you for your.
Speaker 26: Diligence and your commitment to finding an answer and opening
Speaker 26: this up for our community.
Speaker 12: You guys matter, conservative or not, and it is time
Speaker 12: and we get this crap out of the way so
Speaker 12: that we.
Speaker 26: Can support each other as neighbors because we are one Bartlesville,
Speaker 26: and we can't break off in pieces because that's when
Speaker 26: we're weak, that's when our community is less effective. Thank
Speaker 26: you for your time, guys. I appreciate you, and thank
Speaker 26: you for letting us all have space to talk. I
Speaker 26: know it is hard to be here and I know
Speaker 26: you guys are showing up for the job every day.
Speaker 26: Thank you for keeping us safe. Thank you for fighting
Speaker 26: for our rights, and please protect drive for our community.
Speaker 11: They appreciate your God.
Speaker 1: Thank you telling UH Jim Henley and after that Mr
Speaker 1: Raver oh M.
Speaker 27: Henley and said, I'm gonna do it in Martinville. I
Speaker 27: guess I'm gonna have to up set that before.
Speaker 1: B I B L E.
Speaker 27: Basic construction before leave me nerves. We know from UH
Speaker 27: first grade through sixty nine talk about the people that
Speaker 27: went a lot Inherent Kingdom of God, Coornericaters, the Bilers
Speaker 27: and reverence, and you go go one to say they
Speaker 27: have family. If you listen in the dictionary that as
Speaker 27: a male or female traits is you're ona be twenty
Speaker 27: two five. God says a man shall a lot wear
Speaker 27: females clothes. Females, of course, you shall not wear men's clothes.
Speaker 14: If you do.
Speaker 27: It's an abomination under your board nomination and dictionary. One
Speaker 27: of 'em is extreme hatreds the preachers and preach and
Speaker 27: congregations and thebody else that just stuff is all right,
Speaker 27: God says again, you shall not inherit the king. It
Speaker 27: says that anybody that practice abomination aligned or shall not inherit.
Speaker 27: You go home and say that all liars shall have
Speaker 27: their part in the lake of fire. Thank God, we've
Speaker 27: got a new secretary offense, and you'd already have a
Speaker 27: the CRT, the White supremacy, the DEEI and drag queen
Speaker 27: shows the military in the military anywhere in the service,
Speaker 27: cut service, cutments. We've also got a president today said
Speaker 27: he will not allow the transgenders into the military. We
Speaker 27: need men and not men to think they're women, and
Speaker 27: we need women that not women that think they're men.
Speaker 5: Now, this stuff is all unforgivable.
Speaker 28: It's not.
Speaker 7: It's not the unforgivable sin.
Speaker 1: If you have a choice.
Speaker 27: This lady here said, well, we don't know what's right
Speaker 27: and what's wrong. Well, that's why the five are basically
Speaker 27: construction for leaving the others. It tells you exactly what
Speaker 27: it is. And God also gives their warnings. And Zebral
Speaker 27: three eighteen he says that if I see somebody in
Speaker 27: their sin.
Speaker 20: Or that were wicked, and this stuff is wicked, that's
Speaker 20: what God says.
Speaker 1: Not me, what God says.
Speaker 27: And and you do not burn them and they die,
Speaker 27: their blood will be on your hands.
Speaker 1: Now there, you do want them to die, you're covered.
Speaker 27: And even Zebral two bus verse five and seven and
Speaker 27: three eleven say tell 'em whether they listen or not,
Speaker 27: just remember.
Speaker 5: When you can done what God condemns you. Just thank
Speaker 5: thank you, thank you for telling very good.
Speaker 1: Mister Raven. And after that will be uh, Devin Williams.
Speaker 29: Mayor members of the council, Joel the malicious liar according
Speaker 29: to your city at Trinity. He's smiling, he thinks it's funny.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 29: By the way, surprise, we have a new federal government.
Speaker 29: In case anyone missed it, So why don't you guys
Speaker 29: try to get over it. Although you must have known
Speaker 29: there would be an overcapacity crowd for this meeting tonight,
Speaker 29: you chose instead to have this meeting in this small room.
Speaker 29: There are now a lot of people in the council
Speaker 29: room next door.
Speaker 5: Got a count on it. There are a lot.
Speaker 1: Could that be.
Speaker 29: Because you probably would have had to televise this meeting
Speaker 29: if it was held in the big council room, sort
Speaker 29: of like the public had no idea. Yeah, the city
Speaker 29: attorney would make a major one hour PowerPoint presentation on
Speaker 29: drag queen shows at the council's December fifth orientation meeting
Speaker 29: or incoming council members.
Speaker 1: How woke?
Speaker 29: And how about telling the people who were here wearing
Speaker 29: masks to take them off?
Speaker 5: Alright, you guys have a good evening. Thanks, thanks, Oh no.
Speaker 18: Clapping, amazing, right, thank you, jel welcomes Devin Williams.
Speaker 1: And after mister Williams his homer Neppington.
Speaker 22: Alright, I'm Devin Williams. They he uh, I wanna say
Speaker 22: this about this word? That's uh, it's silly, alright, and
Speaker 22: you were all a bunch of silly east then even
Speaker 22: cealier flog.
Speaker 30: H.
Speaker 22: Bartlesville is saturated with a vacant kind of apathy, a
Speaker 22: vicious denial that glorifies self deception. This my asthma of
Speaker 22: respectability in this small town provides a pungent smoke screen
Speaker 22: for the idyllic white mediocrity that is the Bartlesville City Council.
Speaker 5: This apathy submits.
Speaker 22: To a delusion of grandeur, of fiction that Bartlesville is
Speaker 22: anything less than.
Speaker 5: An American nightmare. I feel the best representation of Bartlesville
Speaker 5: or the.
Speaker 22: Circumstances of April sixteenth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty four,
Speaker 22: that occurred at the Hillcrest Country Club on this day,
Speaker 22: little Liam Rowland, an autistic child, drowned in.
Speaker 5: A golf course water trap.
Speaker 22: This tragedy represents a systemic act of abuse, where the
Speaker 22: most vulnerable people in this community drowned in polluted waters
Speaker 22: dug up by privileged white men and women so they
Speaker 22: can play meaningless games with the existences.
Speaker 5: Of us oppress. If you, we all will be held accountable.
Speaker 22: Bartlesville is white, Sir Francis, Bartlesville is queer folding.
Speaker 5: Barblesville is capitalistic. Barblesville is America.
Speaker 1: Homer Neppington, and after Homer Nepington is uh, Reverend Tammy Schmidt.
Speaker 5: Think any even counsel?
Speaker 28: Where's administrators? Magistrates? I also live in Barblesville.
Speaker 14: I'm a believer, confessing Christian, and I'm here as a
Speaker 14: contender as.
Speaker 1: Or all of us.
Speaker 14: I have been involved in this effort for quite a
Speaker 14: few years beyond what I ventured into a year in marbles.
Speaker 28: My granddaughter, their identity is now different.
Speaker 5: She's of the LGBTQ plus belief.
Speaker 28: Yeah. She has also encountered numerous hardships.
Speaker 14: I stand as a man sometimes called a toxic male,
Speaker 14: but I have raised a family, and I've been in
Speaker 14: debris fields.
Speaker 28: I've been in battlefields from.
Speaker 14: California to the Philippines. I've seen cultural divisiveness. And let
Speaker 14: me just say, when everyone talks about love, it has
Speaker 14: more facets. Are you talking about eros? Are you talking
Speaker 14: about a gopy? Or are you talking about falo? Are
Speaker 14: you talking about storegame. It's kind of like nowadays we're
Speaker 14: seeing cultural trends determine what it's legal, lawful, defining spirital
Speaker 14: of law, later the law. I looked at the minutes
Speaker 14: from Bartlesville's council meeting in October last year.
Speaker 28: Now I want to touch upon a monetary direction.
Speaker 14: Mister Bailey looked at ways and this was presented to you,
Speaker 14: how to recover costs from one pride event.
Speaker 28: I think the last one was thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 14: If I read the Barbelsville publication correctly, thereabouts in my budget.
Speaker 5: I mean, that would be terrific.
Speaker 28: I wish I could so.
Speaker 14: Thirty thousand dollars has nothing to sneeze that. Now we
Speaker 14: just sell from a different philosophical perspective. Martin Luther King.
Speaker 14: We just celebrated, right. One of most famous quotes is
Speaker 14: you cannot legislate morality, but you can regulate behavior. So
Speaker 14: I'm here as an advocate, being intellectually honest, as a
Speaker 14: Christian and as a citizen. Which trends are we gonna follow?
Speaker 14: Or do we table this until after legislation in Oklahoma
Speaker 14: City goes through. We're looking at over fifty bills. I
Speaker 14: think we should table this and look at it with
Speaker 14: a little more clarity and intellectual honesty. That's all I got.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Reverend Tammy Schmidt, and behind her will be
Speaker 1: Brandon Wade.
Speaker 13: My name's Reverend Tammy Schmidt, and I have served as
Speaker 13: a chaplain.
Speaker 30: For many years in hospitals and veteran centers, and one
Speaker 30: kind one phrase really caught my attention. In your prayer,
Speaker 30: it said the good of the community. May I ask
Speaker 30: whose community? Do you mean the ones who voted you in?
Speaker 30: Do you mean the ones who look like you think
Speaker 30: like you do you mean the ones who are surround
Speaker 30: that surround you here today? Whose community are you speaking of?
Speaker 30: I'm curious the ones that often are in power tend
Speaker 30: to stay in power. And the things that really strike me,
Speaker 30: especially as a member of the clergy, is that people
Speaker 30: who often are in power are not always in it.
Speaker 10: For the right reasons.
Speaker 11: So let me ask each and.
Speaker 30: Every one of you as we talk about this coup,
Speaker 30: this subject, which is very nuanced, have you been to
Speaker 30: a direct show so you may not even know what
Speaker 30: it is that you're talking about. Here, there have been
Speaker 30: several people talking about what a freedom it is to
Speaker 30: express themselves.
Speaker 13: In a way that is life giving to them, and
Speaker 13: that is beautiful.
Speaker 30: I also wonder at times when people choose these matters,
Speaker 30: this matter of the LGBTQ community, I'm curious why that one,
Speaker 30: because there are so many other issues that need your attention.
Speaker 30: I'm not saying that this is not important, but out
Speaker 30: of all of the hundreds, no, no thousands of things
Speaker 30: that really are important, like when it is cold outside
Speaker 30: and people who have no homes have no place to go,
Speaker 30: and yet churches do not open their buildings, I wonder
Speaker 30: why is that? I wonder why we're making this lgbtqq
Speaker 30: uh br drag shows, why are we making this such
Speaker 30: a big deal when this is not something that is
Speaker 30: to be divisive. It is a celebration of the very
Speaker 30: things that God made us in to be. Now that
Speaker 30: may be of a quality that we can talk about
Speaker 30: later and new more nuanced, But I also would like
Speaker 30: to share my thoughts about what this means as we focus.
Speaker 13: On lgbtqq uh issues.
Speaker 30: So let's do so, but let's recognize them as people,
Speaker 30: as individuals who are deserving of a voice, specifically the
Speaker 30: deserving of an opportunity to express themselves in ways that
Speaker 30: are beautiful. Misunderstood perhaps, but then again, not everybody understands
Speaker 30: what the hell Christians do either cool and why they
Speaker 30: think the way they do. So, as I end and
Speaker 30: I recognize my time is up, I also am in
Speaker 30: dressed in full drag HM.
Speaker 13: I'd also like to remind Itch and.
Speaker 30: Every one of you that there are bigger threats from
Speaker 30: this community as clergy than there are from drag queens.
Speaker 30: Statistically speaking, our children have much more to gain or lose,
Speaker 30: I should say in that, so let us be real
Speaker 30: and statistically speaking, let us make sure that the harm
Speaker 30: we are spreading, let us make sure that we are
Speaker 30: attacking the.
Speaker 13: Right people and not the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 1: Thank you mister Brandon Wade, and after that Rebecca Renthow pro.
Speaker 14: Well.
Speaker 31: Uh, good evening ladies and gentlemen, and thank you Barshool
Speaker 31: City Council for having us ault here to discuss this issue.
Speaker 31: I normally don't read off of something, but I've prepared
Speaker 31: some of someone try to read.
Speaker 5: From it, prepare with me as they just stumbled through it.
Speaker 7: But ask to in here before you address the issue.
Speaker 31: That not only reflects our community values but also significantly
Speaker 31: in implications for our city's future.
Speaker 7: The proposed ban on drag shows is an issue that.
Speaker 31: Warrants a serious consideration and for all you guys on
Speaker 31: City Council, you guys have a very important job to
Speaker 31: do here with this consideration, and thank you for what.
Speaker 7: You do, and I respect you all for what you did.
Speaker 31: With that being said, in regards to this, I want
Speaker 31: to highlight the important aspects that go beyond the personal
Speaker 31: opinions and of banning. By banning these events, we expose
Speaker 31: our seats offend potential UH litigation which could lead to.
Speaker 7: Costly battles that all ultimately burden the tax payers. We
Speaker 7: must be.
Speaker 31: Mindful that funding hate and discrimination not only undermines the
Speaker 31: community values, but also risk financial strains.
Speaker 20: On our citizens.
Speaker 31: It is crucial that we focus on initiatives that promote
Speaker 31: unity and inclusion rather than those that.
Speaker 7: Could divide us and lead to unnecessary expenses.
Speaker 31: While we discuss this issue, we cannot afford to ignore
Speaker 31: the real problems that face our communities. And we've heard
Speaker 31: some of those today brought up by a citizens, which
Speaker 31: would be the homelessness that's in our city and also
Speaker 31: the fact of water supply to.
Speaker 20: Our city and clean water.
Speaker 7: Those are issues that.
Speaker 31: Need to be addressed and our challenges that demand immediate
Speaker 31: attention and resources. Is imperative that we prioritize solutions that
Speaker 31: directly improve the quality of life for all residents rather
Speaker 31: than diverting our focus and cause.
Speaker 7: Division amongst us consideration.
Speaker 31: In conclusion, i'd like to say, let us not close
Speaker 31: the doors on creativity an unnecessary division within our community. Instead,
Speaker 31: we should strive to foster an environment of inclusiveness and
Speaker 31: support while addressing the urgent issues that truly matter. I
Speaker 31: urge you to reconsider anything on this decision that will
Speaker 31: affect the city of Barsville and our tack payer dollars
Speaker 31: and make a decision that doesn't affect everybody. I heard
Speaker 31: earlier also comments.
Speaker 7: About the risk of violence and hate that come with
Speaker 7: these events.
Speaker 31: And I've attended these events and its family orientated for
Speaker 31: the most part of all the event, even with the
Speaker 31: drag show later in the evenings, I've seen nothing that
Speaker 31: is undermining children being there that.
Speaker 20: They not appropriate.
Speaker 32: See.
Speaker 7: I think of the show Missus Dollfire in the movie
Speaker 7: and came out back in ninety three. I believe Missus
Speaker 7: Doullfire raised over.
Speaker 31: Four hundred and forty million the box office A lot
Speaker 31: of us probably had as a child.
Speaker 7: I watched it to a lot of parents, I imagine.
Speaker 31: Allowed their children to watch that show, and that did
Speaker 31: not have a direct effect on our children. And if
Speaker 31: your parents a being parents, and myself being a parent,
Speaker 31: if I was offended by those kind of things and
Speaker 31: did not want my child to be at that, then
Speaker 31: I would be a parent and I would not allow
Speaker 31: my child to be at that.
Speaker 7: Uh So, please take those things in consideration and thank
Speaker 7: you for your time. I appreciate y'all.
Speaker 1: Good thank you, Rebecca Renfrow, and then Nicholas le May.
Speaker 33: I'm Rebecca Renfrow. I am a Bordersville citizen. I do
Speaker 33: appreciate obviously a lot of people. What a great turnout
Speaker 33: to have so many people show their passion about wanting
Speaker 33: to know what's gonna happen in our community. And I
Speaker 33: appreciate you all happen in the workshops. I think it
Speaker 33: really shows that people do wanna be involved, and that's
Speaker 33: really well. Second, I wanna be on the record that
Speaker 33: I'm very passionate that we should be protective of our children.
Speaker 33: I think all children have that right, and as a parent,
Speaker 33: you have that right. My questions are, really, what does
Speaker 33: constitute drag? I I really am not sure and I
Speaker 33: would like that very well clarified, because as drag, just
Speaker 33: the costume is drag. The entertainment is a rodeo clown
Speaker 33: in drag. When a rodeo clown has his big bust
Speaker 33: lisps up, his thing is that dragon is a drag
Speaker 33: When a woman's in pants. I was suspended from high
Speaker 33: school because I wore blue jeans, So was I in drag?
Speaker 33: Am I am dragged now because I'm dressed as a man,
Speaker 33: So I really would like some clarification. Are we talking
Speaker 33: about adult entertainment or are we talking about an activity
Speaker 33: that may involve dressing in a way that you may
Speaker 33: not be comfortable with?
Speaker 13: So I really would appreciate as this.
Speaker 33: Discussion involves some more clarification on that or or are
Speaker 33: we dancing and singing in costumes? When I went to
Speaker 33: the performances here, I did not see anything that I
Speaker 33: would fail offensive to to a child. Now, in our
Speaker 33: prayer we talked about, you know, our perspective.
Speaker 11: And our values.
Speaker 33: Is it my perspectives and my values or is it
Speaker 33: your perspectives and your values? And how who who wins
Speaker 33: in this conversation? And I think I'm not particularly fond
Speaker 33: of guns. My grandchild was holding my hand and there
Speaker 33: was an open carry right in her face.
Speaker 13: How do you think I felt having to.
Speaker 11: Deal with that?
Speaker 13: It gave me to a point of conversation.
Speaker 33: And I think anytime there's differences, we.
Speaker 11: As parents.
Speaker 33: Can use that opportunity to give our own values, to
Speaker 33: give our own perspectives.
Speaker 11: Did that make if I see a gun?
Speaker 13: Does that make me a murderer?
Speaker 33: I'm a vegetarian because I'm a vegetarian I go to
Speaker 33: a restaurant and I ask, does it make everybody else
Speaker 33: or my child think they needed the children around me
Speaker 33: be a vegetarian. I think we really have to think
Speaker 33: hard about it. But I do appreciate the conversation, and
Speaker 33: I think we all we need to get better at conversation,
Speaker 33: whether it's in our homes, whether it's in our communities
Speaker 33: with everybody.
Speaker 13: So thank you so much for this opportunity.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 27: I think.
Speaker 1: Nicholas the maid, and after Nicholas will be Michelle Larkin.
Speaker 34: An act of creation is an act of divinity. That
Speaker 34: there's a holy sacrament in my faith. And so to
Speaker 34: all those who make.
Speaker 35: Of their mode of dress such a sacrament, I say,
Speaker 35: you have no need of my blessing. But bless you,
Speaker 35: my children, for wearing your divinity with such courage and pride.
Speaker 35: Much has been made of what we teach our children.
Speaker 35: Let us teach them that we in trine freedom over
Speaker 35: censorship and joy over fear. From inspiration to creation, May
Speaker 35: the wheel unbroken urn within us.
Speaker 5: All amen, thank you for your time, Thank you for
Speaker 5: treating much.
Speaker 1: Michelle markin and after that will be Sean Barker.
Speaker 36: Hello, everybody, my name is Michelle Larkin. I am the
Speaker 36: co founder of Bartlesville Area Pagans. I know what discriminatory is, hm,
Speaker 36: I know how it feels. I am representing my family,
Speaker 36: my friends, my loved ones.
Speaker 5: In just a heart felt.
Speaker 13: Let's look at our hearts that you use the love
Speaker 13: God gave you and the Goddess gave me.
Speaker 36: To share our time, our space, our love, our freedom,
Speaker 36: our rights, all the things that we have in this
Speaker 36: wonderful country we call America, we need to share them.
Speaker 5: We need to know that we're all humans. We need
Speaker 5: to know that we all have love. Are we all perfect?
Speaker 29: No?
Speaker 5: Did we all do things that we need to check
Speaker 5: ourselves for?
Speaker 13: Yes, we all do, all of us, even all of you,
Speaker 13: even me.
Speaker 5: But what have we got as humans?
Speaker 37: We have compassion, we have time, we have presence, we
Speaker 37: have energy, we have love, and we have light.
Speaker 36: Let's use some of this in deciding what we're gonna
Speaker 36: do about this situation. My step son in law, Josie
Speaker 36: Lee Terrell, who is a famous drag queen y and
Speaker 36: hosts the events here.
Speaker 5: The first one was beautiful. The second one I did
Speaker 5: not attend.
Speaker 1: I was out of town.
Speaker 36: This last one I was here with my family, with
Speaker 36: my loved ones, with my friends. We held uh a
Speaker 36: booth for the Barblesville area.
Speaker 5: Higgins.
Speaker 36: We were judged, we were criticized, we were told we
Speaker 36: were hated. Let's not hate, eight Let's love. Let's be
Speaker 36: kind and caring. And thank you all, each one of
Speaker 36: you at this table for your time for letting us
Speaker 36: speak and sharing our hearts with you.
Speaker 1: Blessed be thank you, Thank you, Sean Barker. And after that,
Speaker 1: Rachelle Hip read the last name, and she'll be our
Speaker 1: last speaker. After mister Barker go to is it right here?
Speaker 17: For alright?
Speaker 38: It well, good evening with her Maryor and council city staff. Uh,
Speaker 38: thank you for holding the workshop to discuss this very
Speaker 38: important community matter. Drag queen shows may not be legally
Speaker 38: considered an adult entertainment, but common sense would suggest that
Speaker 38: it is and it is not appropriate for children to
Speaker 38: be exposed to it. With common sense being restored at
Speaker 38: the federal level, maybe this will finally be resolved at
Speaker 38: the courts at the federal level. In the same time,
Speaker 38: I implore the city council to prevent drag queen shows
Speaker 38: from being held in various venues where children Arender eighteen
Speaker 38: are exposed to it, both indoors, outdoors, public and private.
Speaker 38: We protect children from all kinds of things PG thirteen movies,
Speaker 38: R rated movies, alcohol use, tobacco use, The list goes
Speaker 38: on and on and on.
Speaker 5: We need to protect them from drag queen shows.
Speaker 38: There is absolutely nothing family friendly about a drag queen show.
Speaker 5: They are all sexual by definition. This is not about
Speaker 5: LBGTQ rights.
Speaker 38: Bartlesville is a very welcoming and accommodating community for LBGTQ,
Speaker 38: including my own viewpoints.
Speaker 5: On those issues.
Speaker 18: This is not about being welcoming and accommodating to LBGTQ.
Speaker 38: This is about protecting children from powerful and inappropriate adult content.
Speaker 38: I understand that the concern is we will spend a
Speaker 38: lot of time in legal fees and a lot of
Speaker 38: money in legal fees in order to protect these children
Speaker 38: in court, and we may lose.
Speaker 18: I think personally that would be a tremendous investment for
Speaker 18: us to make.
Speaker 5: In our children.
Speaker 38: One hundred thousand or two hundred thousand dollars and the
Speaker 38: thirty six million dollar budget is a rounding error, and
Speaker 38: I think we should make that an investment. We've had
Speaker 38: a very large and vocal group of drag queen supporters
Speaker 38: here tonight. However, we know from the last city council
Speaker 38: elections and the petition they had over three thousand signatures
Speaker 38: that the vast majority of Bartlesville people do not want
Speaker 38: drag queen shows in public parks or outdoors where.
Speaker 1: Kids can be exposed to it.
Speaker 38: I hope that the city Council and the city manager
Speaker 38: and the staff will protect these children and do the
Speaker 38: will of the vast majority.
Speaker 5: Of Bartons who did not show up here tonight.
Speaker 38: I'm very disappointed in our community for all the people
Speaker 38: who feel this way. They did not show up tonight,
Speaker 38: and instead we had a litany of people come across
Speaker 38: with one viewpoint. I hope the city Council does not
Speaker 38: forget that the vast majority of Bartlesville people do not
Speaker 38: want these.
Speaker 5: During queen shows and they are in their unity. Thank
Speaker 5: you for giving me some time tonight.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you much Sport for lass speaker reach.
Speaker 18: How do you say, grele great, yeah, very good, pretious.
Speaker 39: I am a mental health professional licensed in the state
Speaker 39: of Oklahoma for about eighteen years, and there were just
Speaker 39: a couple things I wanted to address and thank you
Speaker 39: for the opportunity to speak appreciated. The first thing was
Speaker 39: I had seen some conversation about rapid onset gender dysphoria
Speaker 39: online and in the public, and as a mental health professional,
Speaker 39: I just wanted to let you know that's not an
Speaker 39: actual diagnosis, that's not anything that's treated or studied scientifically,
Speaker 39: And there's no evidence to indicate that gender differences ex
Speaker 39: or differences in gender expression or sexual orientation are influenced
Speaker 39: by observing it or seeing it in other people, Nor
Speaker 39: is there any evidence that it's something harmful that we
Speaker 39: need to worry about being contagious. The most important thing
Speaker 39: I wanted to mention tonight though I work with kids,
Speaker 39: and kids watch what we're doing, and some of them
Speaker 39: may be watching this meeting if it's online, and there
Speaker 39: is a mental health crisis in our town and in
Speaker 39: our state and in our country, and kids that have
Speaker 39: differences in gender identity or differences in sexual orientation often
Speaker 39: cite laws and public conversations like this as some of
Speaker 39: the root causes for their thoughts of suicidality, concerns about
Speaker 39: whether or not they're safe in our community, and so
Speaker 39: whether that's the intended message with this law, I do
Speaker 39: just want you to know that a lot of kids
Speaker 39: who don't feel safe will be watching how you vote,
Speaker 39: and they will be taking that into consideration about whether
Speaker 39: or not they're safe and whether or not they're worthy
Speaker 39: or valued members of society.
Speaker 11: And I think what kids really need.
Speaker 10: Is love and compassion and acceptance.
Speaker 39: There's an absence of community with a lot of kids
Speaker 39: that don't fit in the box, and so I just
Speaker 39: wanted to UH mention.
Speaker 27: That team all.
Speaker 18: I appreciate your time, thank you appulating.
Speaker 1: UH a little last question, I did everybody get to
Speaker 1: speak to one of you to speak? I appreciate uh
Speaker 1: everybody's comments tonight. I appreci I certainly appreciate the civility
Speaker 1: of the conversation tonight. We've got a lot of good
Speaker 1: comments tonight, and UH appreciate everybody getting here tonight. We're
Speaker 1: gonna work through our agenda here and UH have our discussion.
Speaker 1: You're welcome to stay and listening. So we'll move on
Speaker 1: to UH item number five, discussion about possible regulations related
Speaker 1: to adult entertainment oriented entertainment in public spaces. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: ask mister Bailey to kind of give us a the
Speaker 1: recap of where we've been and sure how we got here.
Speaker 32: So obviously this has been a discussion that's gone on
Speaker 32: for for quite a while.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 40: And I know that uh, well, two of our council
Speaker 40: members are here and I have have talked about this
Speaker 40: a lot, have been present for a lot of presentation.
Speaker 17: Uh.
Speaker 40: But I know that all four of you were uh
Speaker 40: present for a presentation by mister can at the council orientation,
Speaker 40: and so.
Speaker 32: We were not Staff does not have a presentation for tonight.
Speaker 32: So I think that's the main point is that this
Speaker 32: wasn't intended for you to hear us.
Speaker 40: You've heard us, We've spoken, Mister Kane has given you
Speaker 40: his opinion he today's presentation. So this really is an
Speaker 40: opportunity for the council to talk to each other about this.
Speaker 40: And these are rare opportunities because the only time the
Speaker 40: council gets to talk to each other is in a
Speaker 40: council meeting, and when we have a meeting in the
Speaker 40: other room, we're talking to the people out there, and
Speaker 40: when we have it in this room, you get an
Speaker 40: opportunity to talk to each other.
Speaker 32: So that really was the focus of tonight.
Speaker 40: After the orientation, I met with each of you individually
Speaker 40: to ask how you'd like to proceed. Everyone was in
Speaker 40: favor of the idea of having a workshop so that
Speaker 40: we could have this conversation amongst yourselves.
Speaker 32: And I appreciate over the last week.
Speaker 40: I know mister east Us has submitted a number of
Speaker 40: questions to mister Kane and I, so he'll be ready
Speaker 40: to answer any of those that you'd like to discuss tonight.
Speaker 32: Mister Kirkpatrick, I know you have admitted a couple.
Speaker 40: Of things for consideration tonight. UH, So we appreciate having
Speaker 40: all of that information in advance. That's all that we've
Speaker 40: received up to this point. So I don't know if
Speaker 40: there was other things that anyone else wants to talk about,
Speaker 40: but I know that mister Kane this is this is
Speaker 40: definitely more his area than mine, and and he is
Speaker 40: he is prepared to address any questions that you're on that.
Speaker 40: Uh And with that, Mayor, I will kick it back
Speaker 40: over to you. As I said, this is truly just
Speaker 40: a council agendi.
Speaker 6: Should we pass this speaker about that Mike's fund back
Speaker 6: then here, let's put that for the sake of the
Speaker 6: our friends in the other room.
Speaker 1: Yes, thanks for bringing that up. And so as you
Speaker 1: all have seen your packet, I think mister Kirkpatrick has
Speaker 1: put a lot of time and effort into a couple
Speaker 1: of those that's bringing forth tonight. We're not gonna act
Speaker 1: on anything tonight. We're just gonna discuss it then uh
Speaker 1: if it comes forward, and later at a later date,
Speaker 1: we'll u uh see what comes out of this meeting night.
Speaker 1: So this is discussion purpose only, and I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: ask mister Kirkpatrick to feel say in on some of
Speaker 1: your thoughts tonight.
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, I wanna start by saying thank you to
Speaker 6: everybody who spoke this evening, who shared their thoughts, their
Speaker 6: viewpoints and clearly a lot of passion, and for eybody
Speaker 6: who came both in this room in the overflow room.
Speaker 6: I guess two months ago, when Mike asked about doing workshops,
Speaker 6: I thought this was gonna be a conversation between five
Speaker 6: city council members and a few city staff. You know,
Speaker 6: silly man didn't realise we're gonna be sitting in the
Speaker 6: middle of the fish bowl. But with that in mind,
Speaker 6: I my hope here. I think we will be more
Speaker 6: successful if it actually is a conversation, and I will
Speaker 6: approach this with the same honesty that I have any
Speaker 6: other conversation we've had on any topic.
Speaker 5: I got quoted once.
Speaker 6: I don't know I've ever had a prayer quote before,
Speaker 6: but I have the prayer quoted said, which community that
Speaker 6: is the right question?
Speaker 5: It is our community.
Speaker 6: It's every single one of us, every single person that
Speaker 6: lives in Barnesville. And I have had the extreme honor
Speaker 6: of getting to talk to so many people I've got
Speaker 6: to be pushed in two thousand now, since maybe August,
Speaker 6: and getting to hear lots of different opinions and different perspectives,
Speaker 6: very deeply held convictions and emotions as we have heard
Speaker 6: here in other city council meetings, and frankly most of
Speaker 6: the conversations that I've had, like we have these. There
Speaker 6: are certainly some very significant differences of opinion and feeling
Speaker 6: about the drag Show and some of these issues larger issues,
Speaker 6: but in almost all of them, there are like these
Speaker 6: kernel foundational values that we all have shared that I
Speaker 6: hear from everybody, doesn't matter what side of the political
Speaker 6: spectrum or the opinions that we have on these specific topics.
Speaker 6: We may start with difference of ethics or difference of
Speaker 6: worldviews or values. But what I have been trying to
Speaker 6: find over the last six months is where our common
Speaker 6: values lie. What are the things that just seem to
Speaker 6: bubble to the surface of the ethos of Bartlesville.
Speaker 5: For instance, I have not talked.
Speaker 6: To anybody yet who doesn't believe in the individual dignity
Speaker 6: of every person in our community, disagreement in some very
Speaker 6: These are the people I've talked to, right, which says
Speaker 6: to me that when we hear about people getting death threats,
Speaker 6: and there have been people on both sides of this
Speaker 6: thing who have received death threats, people have had to
Speaker 6: park in their friends driveways or on their street, We've
Speaker 6: had to up police surveillance because people are getting threatened
Speaker 6: with violence on either side of this. None of us
Speaker 6: want that, because it's a violation of our individual dignity
Speaker 6: and our rights. And we all do want the First
Speaker 6: Amendment right, every single one of us, even as we
Speaker 6: disagree about what that expression may look like. We all
Speaker 6: want that. I talked to a single person that it's
Speaker 6: like I would like to take theirs away and maybe
Speaker 6: also compromise mine. We all want it for ourselves. And
Speaker 6: what I love about Oklahoma is that there has been
Speaker 6: like this. There's like this libertarian streak that kind of
Speaker 6: runs through all of us where it's like, I'm pretty
Speaker 6: well good with having my rights and you having yours,
Speaker 6: as long as they don't collide with each other. And
Speaker 6: I've heard that from people on all the ends of
Speaker 6: the political spectrum. I have not talked to anybody yet
Speaker 6: who doesn't believe in their own parental rights, want the
Speaker 6: ability to raise their kids and share their values, and
Speaker 6: that we all want our kids to be safe and healthy.
Speaker 5: The nitty gritty of this comes when.
Speaker 6: We start to ask the question who gets to decide
Speaker 6: what's healthy, who gets to decide what's safe? How do
Speaker 6: we define those things because we start with different values
Speaker 6: or some different definitions there. So I tell you all
Speaker 6: of that not to make a speech, but because that
Speaker 6: is the context within which I'm going to talk about
Speaker 6: this ordinance here, which is just a proposal.
Speaker 5: It is a supposed to be.
Speaker 6: A conversation starter. It is important, beyond important that anything
Speaker 6: we do is within the confines of the law, and
Speaker 6: we are grateful for over two hundred years of history
Speaker 6: that have explained what that law is, what it entails.
Speaker 5: Just held a.
Speaker 6: Masterclass in December read us the Riot Act did everything
Speaker 6: but throw us in jail, and I was glad that
Speaker 6: he was on our side at the end of that thing.
Speaker 6: And the message that I heard loud and clear was
Speaker 6: you don't ban drag because that's a violation of freedom
Speaker 6: of speech. And every time that it's ever happened has
Speaker 6: gotten struck down so much so that now anytime a
Speaker 6: community does so, it gets struck down before, like as
Speaker 6: soon as the law has passed, they just go and
Speaker 6: by the way, just go ahead and file the injunction.
Speaker 5: We'll see you in court.
Speaker 6: You'll notice, those of you who have read it, this
Speaker 6: ordinance is not about drag.
Speaker 5: Drag brought it up in our community, brought it up.
Speaker 6: But it's not a question of are we trying to
Speaker 6: ban a specific thing. If it is that, then we
Speaker 6: are honing in on a piece of our community, a
Speaker 6: part of our community that feels very targeted. And because
Speaker 6: it is difficult for us to decide whose values win,
Speaker 6: the reason you have the first Amendment. You need some
Speaker 6: dispassionate referees. You need people who can look at it,
Speaker 6: who are not just elected by the general will of
Speaker 6: the people, but who also have a way to analyze
Speaker 6: the situation and make a distinction based on the thing
Speaker 6: that we have all said. I care about the health
Speaker 6: of my children. I care about the well being of
Speaker 6: my children. Interestingly, I had a wonderful conversation with some
Speaker 6: ladies over the last week who they read this and said,
Speaker 6: we can't support it, and I said, that's okay, thank
Speaker 6: you for telling me.
Speaker 14: So.
Speaker 5: What I have suggested here.
Speaker 6: Is that if there is an ordinance to do, if
Speaker 6: you guys like it, you know, if we think it's valid,
Speaker 6: if legal counsel thinks, if whatever is to consider anything
Speaker 6: in everything that the lens of public of children's health
Speaker 6: for the sole reason that that is what the Supreme
Speaker 6: Court has said the government is supposed to do.
Speaker 5: Now, there are people who don't like that.
Speaker 6: What I suggest it also is that we have a
Speaker 6: separate board that has medical and mental health professionals on
Speaker 6: it who can tell us, based on the scientific literature,
Speaker 6: the best medical literature, what it says about this and
Speaker 6: if any specific activity is going to have long term
Speaker 6: negative health effects for our kids. If you believe that,
Speaker 6: whatever you're into, and I know there's a lot of
Speaker 6: all the talks about drag right now. Okay, but this
Speaker 6: is meant to be about everything. We have SunFest, we
Speaker 6: have Grace Fest, we have the Old the Classic Car Show,
Speaker 6: we have about a dozen events that are over five
Speaker 6: hundred people easily every year.
Speaker 5: Then if you believe that any and all of those
Speaker 5: have no negative.
Speaker 6: Health effects on kids, then there is no risk to disordinance.
Speaker 6: Like the biggest risk is that we waste five volunteers time.
Speaker 6: And if there is possible risk, then it should be
Speaker 6: provable based on evidence, not based on the opinions of
Speaker 6: people who disagree over values and worldviews. Even so, the
Speaker 6: city council then would have to decide. It would come
Speaker 6: to us to decide whether or not and have been
Speaker 6: gets banned, But we would do so with the recommendation
Speaker 6: of medical health professionals who can bring evidence and say
Speaker 6: this is why we're.
Speaker 5: Making this suggestion.
Speaker 6: I don't know another way to have legitimate conversations about
Speaker 6: children's health suit to take it out of this I said,
Speaker 6: I said back in the campaign season. I think my opinion,
Speaker 6: not medical science, that body dysphoria and cigarette ads.
Speaker 5: Have a lot in common. That's my.
Speaker 6: You know, legal hypothesis with no legal experience.
Speaker 5: With cigarettes.
Speaker 6: What you had was one side saying these are really
Speaker 6: dangerous for kids, on the other side saying this is
Speaker 6: just fine. And it took a long time for the
Speaker 6: medical science to finally break through where the court got
Speaker 6: involved and said, okay, we see one side over the other.
Speaker 6: I will be the first to say this is slow.
Speaker 6: But it can't just be in the hands of the
Speaker 6: vested parties one way or the other just to make
Speaker 6: arbitrary decisions when speech is involved. It mustn't be.
Speaker 5: This is the only way I know to create a referee.
Speaker 6: Is the only way I could figure out to create
Speaker 6: a referee. So if your kids feel unsafe in this community,
Speaker 6: hear you, and their safety matters equally valuable to every
Speaker 6: other child in this community, no matter where. I well,
Speaker 6: I don't want to get too personal. When I say
Speaker 6: our community, I mean every man, woman, and child that
Speaker 6: live in this community. Understanding this is incredibly hot topic.
Speaker 6: This is the conversation part where you got tell me
Speaker 6: what you thought, cause y'all ready saying that I can
Speaker 6: read a word for it.
Speaker 20: Yeah, I read it. I think, Uh, it hits all
Speaker 20: the topics you talk about. It doesn't.
Speaker 41: It doesn't specifically name anything or call anybody out it
Speaker 41: talks about children and health.
Speaker 20: I don't know. Of course, I'm not an attorney, so
Speaker 20: I I can't give you the legal opinion on it.
Speaker 41: We do have a very good city attorney who gave
Speaker 41: us a lot of information at orientation, so I you know,
Speaker 41: I would probably ask uh to get some way in there.
Speaker 20: What you know constitutionally how this plays.
Speaker 31: Uh.
Speaker 41: I know there's a couple of cases that I think
Speaker 41: are more recent, maybe since the orientation that uh has
Speaker 41: to do with the health and preservation of health, which
Speaker 41: was I think West West Texas A and M. And
Speaker 41: then there was a case in Tennessee and and I've
Speaker 41: read up on 'em. But again, not a not an attorney,
Speaker 41: and I know you are.
Speaker 20: You're good at your job, so I'll I'll let you
Speaker 20: uh weigh in on those things.
Speaker 28: Thanks a lot.
Speaker 29: Uh.
Speaker 18: Yes, Uh, this this is not intended to be my show.
Speaker 18: You've all heard the result of my two years of
Speaker 18: research on this topic.
Speaker 13: UH.
Speaker 18: And you've also heard me freely admit that I'm not
Speaker 18: an expert in these matters, not a First Amendment scholar.
Speaker 18: I've never tried a First Amendment case.
Speaker 37: Uh.
Speaker 18: I'm a a small town lawyer who happens to have
Speaker 18: represented municipalities for fifteen years, and uh, this.
Speaker 5: Was never on my BIGO card.
Speaker 18: So you can take what I say with a grain
Speaker 18: of salt and you're not going to offend me at all.
Speaker 18: Counselor Kirkpatrick, I I wanna pay you a compliment. Politics
Speaker 18: is is not my job. My job is to give
Speaker 18: you correct legal advice. But I believe you campaigned on
Speaker 18: being an out of the box thinker. I think you've
Speaker 18: delivered on that promise. I'm never seen anything like this.
Speaker 18: In two years of following the cases that are making
Speaker 18: their way through the core system, I have not seen
Speaker 18: this strategy try. So I cannot opine with with any
Speaker 18: kind of certainty on how.
Speaker 5: This would play out.
Speaker 18: I have a few thoughts that I'm willing to share
Speaker 18: with you, as long as you promise not to quote me,
Speaker 18: because this just hasn't been tried. You've mentioned Council in Dorsey,
Speaker 18: the Tennessee case. I think you're referring to friends of
Speaker 18: George's v.
Speaker 5: Mulroy.
Speaker 20: Correct, Yes, sir, sorry, that is.
Speaker 5: I get a lot of.
Speaker 18: Questions about that because people don't understand the procedural posture
Speaker 18: of that case, which is that was actually the very
Speaker 18: first case that was discussed in my very first presentation
Speaker 18: to this Council UH And in that case, the State
Speaker 18: of Tennessee passed law that that banned or restricted drag
Speaker 18: that was immediately challenged by a local drag performance troupe
Speaker 18: called Friends of George's, and the district court immediately entered
Speaker 18: a temporary restraining order restraining the State of Tennessee from
Speaker 18: enforcing that law. That case quickly went to trial and
Speaker 18: the law was struck down as unconstitutional. That case went
Speaker 18: up to the Sixth Circuit on appeal by the State
Speaker 18: of Tennessee, and the Sixth Circuit ruled that, in fact,
Speaker 18: Friends of Georgie's did not have standing to challenge the law,
Speaker 18: so it was overturned. And that is what confuses people.
Speaker 18: They see that, Oh, that means the State of Tennessee
Speaker 18: wins that this this law is without constitutional problems.
Speaker 5: That's not the case.
Speaker 18: What, in fact, what the Sixth Circuit ruled is is
Speaker 18: that the State of Tennessee never even tried to enforce
Speaker 18: the law against Friends of Georgie's, had no intention of
Speaker 18: enforcing the law, hadn't threatened to enforce the law, and
Speaker 18: that in fact, based on the facts that were alleged
Speaker 18: by Friends of George's, they would not have been in
Speaker 18: violation of the law. They could have as many drag
Speaker 18: shows as they wanted, and they would not have violated
Speaker 18: the Tennessee law. That was the finding of the sixth Circuit,
Speaker 18: and therefore Friends of George's was without constitutional standing to
Speaker 18: challenge the law court, the district courts, the trial courts,
Speaker 18: underlying findings after trial, and the merits on the unconstitutionality
Speaker 18: of the law.
Speaker 5: Have not been ruled upon by the Sixth Circuit.
Speaker 18: They are in the only outstanding district court ruling on
Speaker 18: the constitutionality of that law. They were not disturbed by
Speaker 18: the ruling of the sixth Circuit, and they are are
Speaker 18: findings that still need to be considered. That is is
Speaker 18: that the law is inherently unconstitutional if it was applied
Speaker 18: against a group.
Speaker 5: That actually intended to violate the law.
Speaker 18: So the applicability here to what Councilman Kirkpatrick has presented
Speaker 18: is is that I think what he has presented, or
Speaker 18: what he has proposed, would make it very difficult for
Speaker 18: an outside group to establish standing. Until this committee actually
Speaker 18: voted to cancel a show, cract show, or or whatever,
Speaker 18: no group would have standing to challenge it. So I
Speaker 18: think that I I it's an interesting idea in that
Speaker 18: it it it would not bring a challenge until an
Speaker 18: action was actually taken UH, even more so than what
Speaker 18: you see in the Friends of George's case.
Speaker 31: UH.
Speaker 18: And and again in Friends of George's UH, based on
Speaker 18: the the the UH uncontroverted facts of the case. UH,
Speaker 18: Friends of George's was not in violation of the Tennessee
Speaker 18: law and hadn't even been UH threatened with with UH prosecution.
Speaker 18: So in in in this instance what Councilor Kirkpatrick has proposed, UH,
Speaker 18: there could be no standing until.
Speaker 5: Something is actually done.
Speaker 18: And so I think that is an is an interesting
Speaker 18: aspect of what you have proposed. The other case, UH,
Speaker 18: mister Dorsey, that that UH you mentioned was the West
Speaker 18: Texas A and M University case. I did mention that
Speaker 18: in in my UH presentation of the Council in December.
Speaker 21: UH.
Speaker 18: That is is available online for anybody that wants to
Speaker 18: watch it, and I'm happy to provide my re PowerPoint
Speaker 18: presentation to anybody that wants to see it. The difference
Speaker 18: in the West Texas A and N case is that
Speaker 18: is and why it's different from here is that uh.
Speaker 18: That is is what is is called by the judge
Speaker 18: in UH in the district court as a a campus case,
Speaker 18: which is that it's it's generally understood that students, uh
Speaker 18: do not have full control over their First Amendment rights
Speaker 18: when they're on campus. UH and so they're a college
Speaker 18: president may very well have more leeway and regulating speech
Speaker 18: than this body does.
Speaker 39: So UH.
Speaker 1: That is, by the way, and UH, that is.
Speaker 18: The reason I presented that case in my presentation, UH,
Speaker 18: and I've been following it is cause it is the
Speaker 18: only case that I'm aware of in which a drag
Speaker 18: regulation uh was was passed or in this case, institute
Speaker 18: by a university president that wasn't immediately restrained by the
Speaker 18: district court. It's the only it's it's an outlier. It's
Speaker 18: the only case that I'm aware of that hasn't resulted
Speaker 18: in immediate TRM. So UH, but I don't think it
Speaker 18: has a lot of applicability to this situation because it
Speaker 18: is specifically with college university.
Speaker 41: So and I know you kind of touched on those
Speaker 41: in the orientation. Thanks for some summarizing them again. I
Speaker 41: think the reason I'm asking is because that's I think
Speaker 41: we are all talking to people in the community, and
Speaker 41: we're you know, whether you're one side of the issue
Speaker 41: or the other, and those seem to be the cases
Speaker 41: that you're thrown out to me the most.
Speaker 20: Well, what about this case?
Speaker 5: What people concentrate and I can try to.
Speaker 20: Talk through it that you know, again, probably don't do
Speaker 20: that near the justice up.
Speaker 18: People want to concentrate on the case that says what
Speaker 18: they wanted to say, and they want to ignore all
Speaker 18: the other cases.
Speaker 5: What I've tried to do for the last two years,
Speaker 5: since this council.
Speaker 18: Told me to follow this stuff, is I follow all
Speaker 18: other cases and I have have consistently tried to update
Speaker 18: this discouncil anything anytime there is as a ruling, regardless.
Speaker 5: Of which way it's gone.
Speaker 18: And the reality is is that most of these cases
Speaker 18: have immediately resulted in the regulation being being restrained or
Speaker 18: overturned as unconstitutional.
Speaker 5: Why do you guys think.
Speaker 6: This issue, specifically the drag show, Why do you think
Speaker 6: from the conversations y'all are having, why is this treated
Speaker 6: so differently than so many other disagreements in our community?
Speaker 6: Because in the conversation I'm having. It is a lot
Speaker 6: of a lot of live and let live. Like there's
Speaker 6: been a lot of.
Speaker 5: You know, we do.
Speaker 6: There's lots of different groups with different opinions, different ideas,
Speaker 6: different you know, disagreements or whatever, and we're fairly las
Speaker 6: fair about it everything. But this has become like the
Speaker 6: flashpoint where people have really dug in.
Speaker 5: As y'all have talked to people.
Speaker 6: What makes this different than some of the other issues
Speaker 6: or disagreements that we have had.
Speaker 5: What are people telling you?
Speaker 41: Well, at least initially whenever that was it? When was
Speaker 41: the first show twenty two, twenty two? I think that
Speaker 41: one was when the big hup of was because there
Speaker 41: was a lot of pictures and things that surfaced from it.
Speaker 41: Based on those, you know, it would appear like that
Speaker 41: it was more adult theme. Since that time, I think
Speaker 41: last year, maybe even this year, there was pictures, videos
Speaker 41: and that kind of thing.
Speaker 20: I don't think it.
Speaker 41: I think it differed from the shows, and I think
Speaker 41: that a lot of the residents that that had brought
Speaker 41: attention to this whole issue with me has been then
Speaker 41: the difference in the narrative of what happened and when
Speaker 41: and so and.
Speaker 20: I I agree with you.
Speaker 5: I think we have to.
Speaker 41: Have people weigh in that have the true data and
Speaker 41: the statistics about you know, mental health and this and
Speaker 41: that and and that's the only way we can come
Speaker 41: to I think, get everybody to come to an agreement
Speaker 41: or come together as one and figure out really what
Speaker 41: we can or.
Speaker 1: Can or shitt what?
Speaker 14: What?
Speaker 5: What about you guys? What'd go?
Speaker 1: I just think the veracity of the protests that we
Speaker 1: had after that is what on a community scale, heightened
Speaker 1: it And as just said earlier today, and that when
Speaker 1: HBO came to town, it just brought it to a
Speaker 1: whole other level.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 1: It could well have been something we might have worked
Speaker 1: out in the community over a period of time. Uh,
Speaker 1: we had some good discourse with members of the Pride
Speaker 1: community here m and within a short period of time
Speaker 1: of that, uh, that kind of went away. So we're
Speaker 1: we're left with this remaining remnant of of Uh, this
Speaker 1: difficult discourse we went through a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and it certainly calmed down since then, and tonight was
Speaker 1: a great reflection of that. I I feel, Uh, the
Speaker 1: conversation tonight was very productive from a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Uh that weren't near as in and not the individual,
Speaker 1: but the k the conversations we've had before in the
Speaker 1: council session have been a lot worse than that, and
Speaker 1: tonight I think everybody spoke their heart, spoke their mind,
Speaker 1: and that helps bring it down to a better level
Speaker 1: where we can talk about it. But to me, it
Speaker 1: was just the uh, the significance of the protests and
Speaker 1: those the tough rhetoric that came from those meetings that
Speaker 1: just brought it to a level where, you know, it
Speaker 1: was very difficult to deal with. And of the religious
Speaker 1: factor too. We had to deal with both sides of
Speaker 1: the rel reli religious elements of it because condemning us
Speaker 1: as not being Christian because we were uh putting up
Speaker 1: with it, and uh the that that remnants are still
Speaker 1: out there today.
Speaker 2: And I think, uh, just for us a little uh
Speaker 2: really representative of a very conservative community, deeply held uh
Speaker 2: deeply held moral convictions that I feel like you knows,
Speaker 2: as you've brought out here in your proposal or harm
Speaker 2: to children, and I think, uh, that's one of the
Speaker 2: big concerns, and that's that's what I've heard in talking with.
Speaker 28: People, so.
Speaker 2: You know, and I you know, I I I do
Speaker 2: wanna speak as you you did a little bit.
Speaker 1: To this as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, I it it saddens me that I anybody
Speaker 2: does not feel safe or feels threatened uh in their
Speaker 2: life and their property, whatever their person, and that absolutely
Speaker 2: is wrong.
Speaker 1: Regardless of where.
Speaker 2: You stand on on this issue, we do need to
Speaker 2: be loving and accepting of people, uh, even when we
Speaker 2: don't agree with their lifestyle or uh other choices.
Speaker 5: That they make.
Speaker 6: So s one of the one of the things that
Speaker 6: I feel, I mean pretty deeply in a place like
Speaker 6: Bartles but we see all over.
Speaker 5: The country that.
Speaker 6: Many many people invoke Jesus on their side when those
Speaker 6: sides vehemently disagree with each other. And what we're not
Speaker 6: trying to do is be in the is being the
Speaker 6: the place of regulating or choosing, but you know, being
Speaker 6: the referee between people's religious.
Speaker 5: Convictions, right.
Speaker 6: And I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a pastor about
Speaker 6: as conservative as they come. But I'm not called to
Speaker 6: be everybody in here's pastor if you're not part of
Speaker 6: my church.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 6: And so one of the challenges we have here is
Speaker 6: that the first amendment we always talk about is to
Speaker 6: speak against government and all tyranny and all that, and
Speaker 6: that's true, but it was also to protect people from
Speaker 6: state sponsored churches, and so because that's where all these
Speaker 6: people came from. It's places where we're told you have
Speaker 6: to be this. You know, literally, these people have just
Speaker 6: come across the ocean after getting slaughtered by other people
Speaker 6: who disagree with the non religious values. So part of
Speaker 6: what I'm trying to what I'm trying to pursue in
Speaker 6: this is a way for us to have a standard
Speaker 6: that we can agree upon in a pluralistic society, because
Speaker 6: there are differences even just we heard here, between people's
Speaker 6: own religious backgrounds, different flavor of religion, even if you
Speaker 6: happen to all profess the same, you know, for all
Speaker 6: the Christians in here, we got to lots of different churches.
Speaker 5: So we've had pay and speak, we've had you.
Speaker 6: Know, people from different perspectives and so, but if we
Speaker 6: want this to be a community thing, if the heat
Speaker 6: got turned up when we're trying to turn the heat
Speaker 6: down so that our kids are seeing an example of
Speaker 6: a community that can disagree but can still move forward together,
Speaker 6: then we have to find some kind of a standard
Speaker 6: that we can agree upon. If we're going to make
Speaker 6: this not always a fight, and if we are a
Speaker 6: good faith actors in our community, that requires give and
Speaker 6: take across the board, which is a challenge because we
Speaker 6: have hurt each other with our words and actions and
Speaker 6: threats over the years. I'm speaking of the complexity of
Speaker 6: this not because I have like an easy solution here.
Speaker 6: What I am proposing here. What I'm proposing here is
Speaker 6: I hope a way to hone in on a value
Speaker 6: that we share that can be defined in a way
Speaker 6: that does not require our opinions or our preconceived, our preconceptions,
Speaker 6: our presuppositions, where we can remove our presuppositions from the
Speaker 6: decision making process.
Speaker 5: And basically agreed to have referees.
Speaker 6: There's a case going through They just went through the
Speaker 6: Supreme Court. I was hoping, Jess, you might share a
Speaker 6: little bit about because my argument is about children's health.
Speaker 6: There was I believe a case that was seen by
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court in December where that it was the
Speaker 6: main part of the argument there the logic, uh, of
Speaker 6: the of the law.
Speaker 18: I'm' share a little bit about that, yes, and I
Speaker 18: appreciate you uh uh giving me a heads up about this.
Speaker 31: Uh.
Speaker 18: I feel like my my law school days were being called.
Speaker 5: I'm a professor to.
Speaker 18: Brief the case that we're s was to talk about today,
Speaker 18: UH this case that that uh uh that you interadents
Speaker 18: or is uh uh scurmetti uh us versus scurmetti uh,
Speaker 18: which has commonly been referred to in the press as
Speaker 18: as the Tennessee gender affirming care ban.
Speaker 4: UH.
Speaker 18: Tennessee passed UH law banning certain types of UH gender
Speaker 18: affirming care, and that was challenged by uh uh the
Speaker 18: parents of miners UH who presumably wanted to participate in
Speaker 18: that sort of sort of care. I think what you're
Speaker 18: interested in, councilor Kirkpatrick, is the the discussion of the
Speaker 18: standard uh stan the healthcare standard. The the case itself
Speaker 18: doesn't have a lot of applicability to what we're talking
Speaker 18: about here, because there are very different legal issues uh
Speaker 18: that The issues presented in that case, and I'm gonna
Speaker 18: uh read directly from uh State of Tennessee's brief are
Speaker 18: uh whether the equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment
Speaker 18: prohibits states from enacting laws protecting children from sex transition
Speaker 18: medical interventions with risks of lifelong harm. And second, whether
Speaker 18: the substantive component of the due process clause gives apparent
Speaker 18: their right to demand cross sex medical interventions for children
Speaker 18: that a state has found to be unproven and excessively risky.
Speaker 18: So those two questions and uh those of you don't
Speaker 18: follow the Supreme Court.
Speaker 13: Uh.
Speaker 5: The Supreme Court decides questions, not cases.
Speaker 3: UH.
Speaker 5: So it is the question that is the most.
Speaker 18: Important part of any Supreme Court game. Those questions present
Speaker 18: a Fourth Amendment equal protection argument.
Speaker 2: UH.
Speaker 18: The uh the challengers of the Tennessee law argued that
Speaker 18: they were being denied care based on their sex.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 18: The state of Tennessee has has has countered and said no,
Speaker 18: we are banning this type of care for everyone, regardless
Speaker 18: of their sex.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 18: And that i ah appeared from the questioning that took
Speaker 18: place at the Supreme Court.
Speaker 5: To be where the court is going to land.
Speaker 18: The majority of justices UH agreed that that uh, it's
Speaker 18: not a question of what sex you are, It's a
Speaker 18: question of whether or not you are seeking care that
Speaker 18: is banned, and the government participates in the big banning
Speaker 18: of care all the time. Are all sorts of drugs
Speaker 18: uh uh that that uh are banned as unreasonably dangerous
Speaker 18: as all sorts of UH licensing requirements for for medical care.
Speaker 18: So it is not unheard of at all for the
Speaker 18: government to get in that space. And it's not a
Speaker 18: question of equal protection as to whether that is is
Speaker 18: uh uh violated in this case because the Tennessee law
Speaker 18: is sex neutral. This type of care is banned for everybody,
Speaker 18: doesn't matter what sex you are. The other question is
Speaker 18: a Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment substantive due process issue.
Speaker 2: UH.
Speaker 18: The those who challenge the law said that, well, we
Speaker 18: should have the right to make these decisions for our children.
Speaker 22: UH.
Speaker 18: Substantive due process are are unenumerated rights rights that aren't
Speaker 18: specifically UH in the Constitution, and the Supreme Court has
Speaker 18: found that one of those is parental rights, which, interestingly enough,
Speaker 18: UH is is one of the issues in in this discussion.
Speaker 18: But in in this case, the question is is there
Speaker 18: a substance a due process right to receive this type
Speaker 18: of care?
Speaker 11: Uh?
Speaker 18: The Sixth Circuit said no, UH, you don't have a
Speaker 18: a right to receive this particular type of care. Again,
Speaker 18: governments are often in the business of prohibiting certain types
Speaker 18: of drugs, certain type of of medical practice without licensure
Speaker 18: all sorts of things like that. So I I it
Speaker 18: appears I I'd hate to go on record and and
Speaker 18: UH prove be proven wrong, but it appears that that
Speaker 18: case has a very very high chance or that law
Speaker 18: rather has a very very high chance of UH being
Speaker 18: affirmed by the Supreme Court. Conversely, in the controversy that
Speaker 18: we are all embroiled in here today, we have a
Speaker 18: First Amendment freedom of speech issue, UH, which is not
Speaker 18: implicated by this this case. And we have a vagueness issue,
Speaker 18: which is that you UH many of these laws in
Speaker 18: different states have been struck down as unconstitutionally vague in
Speaker 18: violation of the due process cause of of the Fifth men.
Speaker 16: UH.
Speaker 18: That is is that it's they are so vague that
Speaker 18: you can't tell UH at what point you your address
Speaker 18: is so effeminate that you are now in drag and
Speaker 18: violating the law.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 18: And those are the issues that that have made UH.
Speaker 18: The First Amendment issue and the Fifth Amendment vagueness issue
Speaker 18: are are what have caused problems for states and municipalities.
Speaker 5: That have attempted to ban drag. So I think we
Speaker 5: have two.
Speaker 18: Different cases, two different issues. There are the there there
Speaker 18: is the potential for there to be some some discussion
Speaker 18: by the Spring Court, and and that case has been argued,
Speaker 18: and I they're the Spring Court, they can do what
Speaker 18: they want.
Speaker 5: UH.
Speaker 18: They're gonna rule when.
Speaker 5: They decide to rule.
Speaker 14: UH.
Speaker 18: But there's some potential that that that case, when it
Speaker 18: comes down, could have some directive on on what type
Speaker 18: of of care represents UH an unreasonable risk to miners UH.
Speaker 18: And I think that where the court will come down
Speaker 18: there is UH. And there's some some good discussion in
Speaker 18: the case. I'm sure you've read it, but there's some
Speaker 18: good discussion in the briefing that a lot of this
Speaker 18: is just unknown, that there's not enough research to say
Speaker 18: whether or not these these things are are medically necessary
Speaker 18: or whether they have have unacceptable.
Speaker 5: UH risks UH.
Speaker 18: And so so what the State of Tennessee argued is
Speaker 18: is that if when you don't have certainty in those areas, UH,
Speaker 18: the court has a duty to restrain itself to not
Speaker 18: enter a space that that isn't isn't certain, to leave
Speaker 18: that to the political process. And so for that reason,
Speaker 18: I think it's it's highly likely that this case, that
Speaker 18: law in Tennessee ends.
Speaker 5: Up getting affirmed.
Speaker 18: If it does, there may be some interesting discussion in
Speaker 18: it about exactly what level of risk is acceptable for children.
Speaker 5: Thank you. I don't know what an A plus looks like,
Speaker 5: so we'll give you a B plus. We'll do better
Speaker 5: next time. I appreciate that was that was on very
Speaker 5: short notice. The parts of those arguments. I haven't read
Speaker 5: the case. I just listened to the some of the arguments.
Speaker 6: But as it hones in on children's health, it will
Speaker 6: be interesting to see if the Supreme Court discusses that.
Speaker 6: And that's germane to this topic because it is the
Speaker 6: health stuff that we're honing in on. Personally, I mean,
Speaker 6: I wanted to put I've I've kicked these ideas around.
Speaker 5: We talked about them with the first workshop that we did.
Speaker 6: I thought it was worth putting out there so that
Speaker 6: y'all could see them because we actually get to meet talk.
Speaker 5: And so that the community could see them.
Speaker 6: I want to hear y'all's feedback as well. My suggestion
Speaker 6: would be that we kind of wait and see what
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court comes back and says with some of
Speaker 6: this kind of stuff, Cause they come back and say, hey, all,
Speaker 6: this is there's no health risk associated with any of
Speaker 6: this stuff.
Speaker 5: There's nothing we should worry about.
Speaker 14: Then.
Speaker 6: I mean, it still would be wise of us to
Speaker 6: consider children's health, but the Supreme Court would have told us,
Speaker 6: at least in one area, what that looks like. At
Speaker 6: the same time, I would really like to hear from
Speaker 6: our community. It's one thing to say, hey, I don't.
Speaker 5: Like this proposal.
Speaker 6: It's another thing to say I don't like it, and
Speaker 6: here's why. I would love to hear the why. Because
Speaker 6: I wrote I came up with these drafts after talking
Speaker 6: to thousands of our neighbors in Bartlesville, from across the
Speaker 6: political spectrum, from across the ideological spectrum, from across the
Speaker 6: conviction spectrum, trying to find a way that was sensitive
Speaker 6: to this very emotionally intense, an important topic. I'm trying
Speaker 6: to threat a needle here, and this may fail that attempt,
Speaker 6: but if so, I would like to know why it
Speaker 6: doesn't meet the standards that all of our community has.
Speaker 5: So just saying well, you know, I don't like it.
Speaker 6: Okay, fair enough, if you're entitled your opinion. But if
Speaker 6: you say I don't like it, here's why, then that
Speaker 6: will help us be a city council in this community
Speaker 6: in a better way.
Speaker 20: Well, I agree. I think may occurred had on something.
Speaker 41: You know, there was an agreement that was reached, and
Speaker 41: that was because all parties came to the table and
Speaker 41: had civil discourse and trying to figure out, Hey, what's
Speaker 41: good for everybody? What, what do we want to do,
Speaker 41: what do we want to you know, how do we
Speaker 41: want to precede this community?
Speaker 20: Which I think we did.
Speaker 41: And then there was another as you stated, there was
Speaker 41: another heightened emotion here and there, and it got back
Speaker 41: to the same as it was initially.
Speaker 20: So I think hopefully, you know, I like, did you
Speaker 20: put this together?
Speaker 41: You've got a lot of thought and energy, and uh,
Speaker 41: hopefully we can get just that as as further feedback
Speaker 41: from the community.
Speaker 20: Why the the the why not.
Speaker 1: Just from the vagueness issue. When does that come into
Speaker 1: play for a court ruling? Is that after the law
Speaker 1: is adopted and contested or just after it's.
Speaker 18: Adopted, so that uh, the the answer is is is
Speaker 18: when it is challenged in court.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 18: And the Fifth Amendment vagueness argument has been made and
Speaker 18: virtually all of the cases that I've been following it,
Speaker 18: it's kind of three or four bullet points down the
Speaker 18: list usually of of the things that the court hit on.
Speaker 5: Uh, but it is a major issue.
Speaker 30: Uh.
Speaker 18: We've had discussions in this community ourselves trying to understand
Speaker 18: was what happened this or was it that? And people
Speaker 18: can't even can't even agree on that.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 18: Uh just just hear to not people say that this
Speaker 18: is a wonderful family of friendly event.
Speaker 5: Uh and other people say it's an absolute abomination.
Speaker 29: Uh.
Speaker 5: We can't even agree on that. How do you define that?
Speaker 14: Uh?
Speaker 18: And that goes famously to the to the Supreme Court
Speaker 18: that was an unable to uh define pornography. The Supreme
Speaker 18: Court Justice White, I believe, said, Uh, I don't know,
Speaker 18: I can't define it, but I can I know I
Speaker 18: see it. It's when we have a a similar situation
Speaker 18: here where people you can't define drag, but you don't
Speaker 18: but you know it when you see it. Well, that
Speaker 18: leads to the vagueness issue. At what point does a
Speaker 18: person know w at what point are they unnoticed that
Speaker 18: this conduct will get me in trouble.
Speaker 16: With the law?
Speaker 1: So just I so if this just say this was
Speaker 1: adopted and who rode in as an ordinance? And would
Speaker 1: we have to enforce it to get somebody to filed
Speaker 1: against it? Or would they be ruled against, just like
Speaker 1: the Friends of George that they didn't have standing to
Speaker 1: contest it.
Speaker 18: If if you passed this at at your next regular meeting,
Speaker 18: I don't think that anybody could establish standing to suit because,
Speaker 18: uh it it quite clearly doesn't apply until.
Speaker 5: This committee says it applies.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 18: Once a committee says it applies and cancels a show.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get supro Okay, Well, I agree with Trevor.
Speaker 5: I've du m.
Speaker 1: R M's done a a a wonderful job, as he said,
Speaker 1: trying to thread the needles. I've had conversations when in
Speaker 1: the past, and I've relied on tens and twenties of
Speaker 1: state attorney general's best, state legislators, senators, all attorneys, medical
Speaker 1: doctors within those fields that have typically tried to thread
Speaker 1: many needles. And I'm not saying this is one they
Speaker 1: tried to throw. I'm not saying it was any part
Speaker 1: of any discussion. I'm just I know that we've had
Speaker 1: people look at all avenues to try to restrict it
Speaker 1: in a public's work, and it is, you know, to
Speaker 1: mister Kane's uh evidence, it's largely failed at all levels.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate your efforts and and applaud the fact
Speaker 1: that we've got something to discuss further down the road.
Speaker 1: I think, as mister Kaine has uh said tonight, he
Speaker 1: is not a first Amendment ware. I told him today
Speaker 1: earlier when I was talking about this, I'm tired of
Speaker 1: this opinion, cause I've heard it a hundred times, but
Speaker 1: I respectfully am tired of it. He's made his point,
Speaker 1: uh on very many occasions. So again, if this was
Speaker 1: something and I'm just reminding the council, if this is
Speaker 1: something that we wanted to continue further some other day
Speaker 1: and we've passed a the ability to fund a view
Speaker 1: of this in some other way, that that what I would.
Speaker 1: I would certainly be open into the idea of looking
Speaker 1: at another firm, another attorney being able to look at
Speaker 1: us and get it rending, rendering some opinion of that
Speaker 1: it's got holes in it that ever stand up and
Speaker 1: it's worth to try, or whatever, because I think you
Speaker 1: put a lot of effort into it and deserves at
Speaker 1: least out.
Speaker 5: If the other.
Speaker 1: Councilors felt that that was something they wanted to do,
Speaker 1: I'm always speaking for myself there, but uh, I think
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful.
Speaker 18: A great struct for the conversation and mission mayor, if
Speaker 18: I may, that is my recommendation, UH, if UH you
Speaker 18: don't hurt my feelings. If if the Council were to
Speaker 18: a the city where to find it self involved in
Speaker 18: a an Arisa action, I would expect that you would
Speaker 18: hire an Arista attorney. If you find yourself in broiled
Speaker 18: bankruptcy action, I would expect that you would hire a
Speaker 18: bankruptcy attorney.
Speaker 29: UH.
Speaker 18: The First Amendment is no different other than everybody has
Speaker 18: an opinion about it.
Speaker 31: UH.
Speaker 18: And so my recommendation would be, if you decide to
Speaker 18: move forward with this proposal or or any other, that
Speaker 18: you seek outside council with expertise in the First Amendment
Speaker 18: to help you draft that ordinance in a way that
Speaker 18: is most likely to to pass constitutional muster, but also
Speaker 18: that you hire affirm that agrees to defend you when
Speaker 18: you're suit.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 41: I I personally want to thank you, cause I know
Speaker 41: you've taken a lot of time to to especially in
Speaker 41: the orientation.
Speaker 20: I mean you you laid out every bit of case
Speaker 20: though and and what that looks like.
Speaker 41: I know you've spent countless hours talking to UH attorney
Speaker 41: groups that have worked with all the states that are
Speaker 41: currently have litigation or cities, And you know, I think
Speaker 41: the frustration for me, and I know for you has
Speaker 41: been that there's a lot of people that would step
Speaker 41: up and write things, but stand beside you.
Speaker 20: To try to argue that and defend it is different.
Speaker 18: I it was very frustrating in the talk with a
Speaker 18: dozen or so outfits on this. Occasionally they'd say, well,
Speaker 18: you can try this, you can try that, and i'
Speaker 18: and I'd say, will you defend city when that is
Speaker 18: challenged in court?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 5: Maybe not?
Speaker 18: And that's that's that's the problems.
Speaker 20: They don't they're talent there.
Speaker 5: It's easy.
Speaker 18: It's easy to spit ball and throw stuff up against
Speaker 18: the wall, but it actually comes on putting your reputation
Speaker 18: on the line and saying, yes, this does not violate
Speaker 18: the United States Constitution. I had trouble finding anybody.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 6: I I appreciate everybody's feedback and I'm ready to move on.
Speaker 6: But if I can say one more thing, someone towards
Speaker 6: the end said we're better than this, and I would
Speaker 6: like to suggest that that this process is good. Conflict
Speaker 6: in healthy communities is necessary. If you're in a relationship,
Speaker 6: and you never have any conflict you're not communicating. Anytime
Speaker 6: you begin to organize people beyond one, you're gonna have tension,
Speaker 6: You're gonna have differing ideals or opinions. So I appreciate
Speaker 6: that we have the opportunity to bring these together, to
Speaker 6: put these ideas out there for everybody's feedback and to hear.
Speaker 5: Because if we were.
Speaker 6: To come in and say we're doing this in the process,
Speaker 6: we would hurt a swath of people who were no
Speaker 6: longer represented by the people that they voted for.
Speaker 5: And if we came in and.
Speaker 6: Said we're not doing anything, we would then alienate a
Speaker 6: whole other swath of people who who were involved in
Speaker 6: this process, and so you would just further divide the
Speaker 6: community as winners and losers. I would rather bring us
Speaker 6: towards something by saying, what is a fair process that
Speaker 6: we can trust? Understanding that we are again threading a
Speaker 6: very contentious needle, and so I've tried to create as
Speaker 6: a is a what I would like feedback on is
Speaker 6: this process and this idea because it may be.
Speaker 5: Full of holes.
Speaker 6: I am absolutely a flawed person who can only see,
Speaker 6: you know, as far out of the road as I
Speaker 6: can try to figure it, you know, figure it out.
Speaker 5: So please over the coming days and weeks.
Speaker 6: I'm asking you know, for all of Barblesville, I want
Speaker 6: to hear your thoughts on this because it's because your
Speaker 6: opinions are worthwhile. You helped me come to this, so
Speaker 6: help us continue to move forward.
Speaker 2: I'd say I also have noticed is the uh this
Speaker 2: mister Haffington mentioned that there is a state Senate bill
Speaker 2: five fifty that's about to be presented I think here
Speaker 2: in another couple of weeks, and uh that you know,
Speaker 2: if the state if that actually gets heard on the
Speaker 2: house floor as well, if that were to passed.
Speaker 1: Then the state would be uh facing that and and
Speaker 1: how to enforce that as well.
Speaker 41: So and there's a lot of olimgation in many states.
Speaker 41: I mean, I know you you present all this research
Speaker 41: for but I think there's maybe thirty Yeah, there's there's
Speaker 41: quite a few that are at some form uh uh
Speaker 41: code conduct whatever that they're that they're presenting and and
Speaker 41: and it's in some legal form.
Speaker 20: So I you know, I think it's already out there
Speaker 20: for us to see.
Speaker 14: Uh.
Speaker 20: But I do think that we uh initially whenever the
Speaker 20: first burger happened. We tried to set again around the
Speaker 20: table and I think did a good job of that.
Speaker 20: I mean, and hopefully we can't again.
Speaker 13: Hm.
Speaker 1: I think it's the right decision at the time, and
Speaker 1: it it divided our council somewhat, but we all continued
Speaker 1: working together. We all had a difference of opinion, and
Speaker 1: uh I again, this is a continuation of that very
Speaker 1: meeting we did, bringing it to a table, to a
Speaker 1: discussion for everybody to listen and talk to us. I
Speaker 1: think it's been healthy for everybody and puts everything out there.
Speaker 1: You've been a large part of that, bringing something board
Speaker 1: like this culture needs to anything you have left off
Speaker 1: with the senior good.
Speaker 5: Thank you for your thoughts.
Speaker 1: Arn, thank you for your thoughts. Let me anything else