Speaker 1: At a book.
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Speaker 2: Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest wishes to
Speaker 2: remain anonymous. With that in mind, I'm just gonna call
Speaker 2: him Kevin. Kevin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's good to be here.
Speaker 2: Well, it's great having you. Kevin. Please give us a
Speaker 2: brief bio in yourself.
Speaker 1: Born in sixty nine in Oregon, and I was raised
Speaker 1: by a single mother. Had a sister a year and
Speaker 1: a half younger than I was. Growing up in Oregon.
Speaker 1: I was a good student. I played basketball varsity basketball
Speaker 1: one year of college. I enjoyed steel a fishing throughout
Speaker 1: the Cascades, the Oregon coast, along the mount hood so been.
Speaker 1: I'd grown up around the mountains the forest all my life.
Speaker 1: Hiked and camped throughout all those ages. I was sent
Speaker 1: out into the Air Force. Joined the Air Force as
Speaker 1: an officer at twenty two, out of school. Commissioned, sent
Speaker 1: to Dayton, Ohio, and we traveled the world. Went seven
Speaker 1: years in Asia, seven years in Europe, Italy, Germany, Japan,
Speaker 1: South Korea, and after that all finished, we had kids
Speaker 1: in Germany, came to Idaho and that's where my store
Speaker 1: it takes place.
Speaker 2: Wow, you want to talk about a world traveler. You
Speaker 2: got around.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We served twenty six years in the Air Force, my
Speaker 1: wife and I also an officer, and fourteen years of
Speaker 1: those were overseas, and we've seen the Pyramids, We've seen Scandinavia,
Speaker 1: all over Europe, went to Berlin, went to Prague, went
Speaker 1: to London, Paris.
Speaker 3: It's just been a great way to live life. You'd
Speaker 3: be young, be paid, get to travel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it was what a life you two
Speaker 2: have lived. And of course thanks to both of you
Speaker 2: for serving our country. I really appreciate it. We were
Speaker 2: proud to do it. Well, that's awfully impressive. It really is.
Speaker 2: Growing up in Oregon the way you did and spending
Speaker 2: all the time in the woods doing the things that
Speaker 2: you did. What were your thoughts growing up on the
Speaker 2: existence of cryptids like sasquatch?
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, I never knew about bigfoot in sasque and
Speaker 1: looking back, I wish I would have had knowledge and
Speaker 1: I would have gone to some of the areas that
Speaker 1: now doing you know, Hindsight's twenty twenty, doing research all
Speaker 1: over Oregon and Washington, seeing all the sightings in Mount
Speaker 1: Saint Helen's through the Cascades. I wish, I wish I
Speaker 1: was more inclined to go out and search deeper. But
Speaker 1: I felt like I got some places camping for the
Speaker 1: long weekends into some rough areas not knowing about it.
Speaker 1: But I would have thought I would have seen or
Speaker 1: smelled or or seen something. I have a few camping
Speaker 1: occasions where we had things visit us in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night. First girlfriend, what was that we hear
Speaker 1: footsteps outside the tent, and in Oregon we don't have.
Speaker 1: I never saw a black bear in all my days,
Speaker 1: hundreds of days of fishing and deer, of course, but
Speaker 1: no kryptids whatsoever until I got to Idaho.
Speaker 2: That's really surprising. Growing up in Oregon the way you did.
Speaker 2: I would have figured that you had to have heard
Speaker 2: about sasquatch. But what's funny is you might not have
Speaker 2: known about them back then, but they sure know about you.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you think about all the time you
Speaker 2: spent in the woods and all the things you did
Speaker 2: out there. I showed her to think about how many
Speaker 2: times they are watching you and you had no idea.
Speaker 1: No, that's a true statement looking at this encounters. My
Speaker 1: sister owns an airbnb off of a route twenty six
Speaker 1: going up to Mount Hood Government Camp Rhododendrum, and I
Speaker 1: tell her that thirty five minutes from where she goes
Speaker 1: to clean her cabin has been a sighting, and she goes,
Speaker 1: what she didn't know about either, But it really caused
Speaker 1: you to.
Speaker 3: Sasquatch Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: I've never had any accounter, but looking into the sightings
Speaker 1: to there's thousands of them every year, just really really
Speaker 1: boggles your mind. And in fact, I've only recently maybe
Speaker 1: the last five or six years now ever since I've
Speaker 1: seen these and looked it up. That was twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: so that was twelve years ago I found out about
Speaker 1: dogmen and how frequently they are cited as well, but
Speaker 1: less so than bigfoot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you found about dogmen the hard way, you really did.
Speaker 2: And it does boggle the mind to think that people
Speaker 2: who live right there in a hotspot like that like Oregon,
Speaker 2: how there's any possible way they couldn't know about sasquatch.
Speaker 2: But it happens there are a lot of people in Oregon,
Speaker 2: a lot of people in Washington State, northern California, they
Speaker 2: still have no clue. But we're probably talking about people
Speaker 2: who have been watched by sasquatch countless times, but like
Speaker 2: you just didn't know. That's just how it goes sometimes, and.
Speaker 3: I think the government has that intention.
Speaker 1: Ignorance is bliss so because we don't have fear or
Speaker 1: able to go out and see these areas.
Speaker 3: But as you.
Speaker 1: Drive down the northwest I five and you think about
Speaker 1: the mountains like Mount Rainier that are unsettled, why not, Well,
Speaker 1: according to the sightings of.
Speaker 3: UFOs, bigfoot cryptids.
Speaker 1: I guess I understand why all over our mount Saint
Speaker 1: hell is Mount Rainier, nobody lived there for maybe a
Speaker 1: good reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just might be a good reason there. I
Speaker 2: remember having a conversation with this guy and naysayer who
Speaker 2: said that it was impossible for Sasquatch to be in existence,
Speaker 2: and as an example, I used Oregon and Washington State,
Speaker 2: talking about all the places in those two states where
Speaker 2: people just don't go. And he had the nerve to
Speaker 2: try to tell me that even in Washington State and Oregon,
Speaker 2: people cover all parts of the state, all the time,
Speaker 2: but he was just showing his ignorance by saying that,
Speaker 2: because that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like totem poles all over Alaska, Washington, Oregon. The
Speaker 1: Indians that were once there build totem poles and I
Speaker 1: look like there's there's a bigfoot on that pole a
Speaker 1: pine and you always think, oh, they're just imaginary creatures,
Speaker 1: but perhaps not all.
Speaker 2: They knew about them. They definitely did, and that's why
Speaker 2: the totems. Before you had your encounters, would you describe
Speaker 2: yourself as being more in the forward or reserved side
Speaker 2: personality wise.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely personable and willing to share stories, willing to
Speaker 1: listen to stories, so forward, I would say that describes me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, seems like you that way. If that's the case,
Speaker 2: did your encounters have an effect on.
Speaker 1: That, I'd say yes because every time I bring up
Speaker 1: the story with friends, they laugh and they go, Okay,
Speaker 1: sure because they were raised in Oregon like I was,
Speaker 1: and uh never had a clue. I mean, the Internet
Speaker 1: has really opened things up what the last twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five five years to seeing others and then be becoming
Speaker 1: parts of groups, which I've not done. But as I
Speaker 1: listed my sighting on the cryptids across the USA.
Speaker 3: I forgot the name of it.
Speaker 1: I put it in the website and noticed there was
Speaker 1: never There was not another sighting where I had listed
Speaker 1: of them my two, which is unbelievable. But that's I
Speaker 1: mean around an air force base, for example, where they
Speaker 1: fly fighter jets and cargo jets over the desert, the
Speaker 1: high desert.
Speaker 3: Not many people living back there other than cities. See.
Speaker 2: That's one of the funny things about cryptids, like dogmen
Speaker 2: and sasquatch. You find them in all sorts of places
Speaker 2: you would never think they would be. They just seem
Speaker 2: to go where they want to go, and they hang
Speaker 2: out where they want to hang out.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: If you've had a dog mean encounter that you need
Speaker 2: help dealing with, or if you'd like to be a
Speaker 2: guest on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters dot com
Speaker 2: and submit report. If you've had a big foot sighting,
Speaker 2: we'll like to be a guest on one of my
Speaker 2: two big foot podcasts. Please go to my Bigfootsighting dot com.
Speaker 2: All right, Kevin, please tell us about your encounters. Now,
Speaker 2: give us every last detail that comes to mind.
Speaker 1: It was twenty fourteen somewhere in the in the wintertime,
Speaker 1: the end of the winter, maybe January February. I had
Speaker 1: a weekend off and we just had our two babies,
Speaker 1: so my wife could babysit, and I said, hey, honey,
Speaker 1: I heard about a lake called CJ. Striker Lake just
Speaker 1: five or six miles east of our base. We're at
Speaker 1: Mountain Home Air Force Base, just outside of Mountain Home, Idaho,
Speaker 1: fifty miles east of Boise Bois, I know, and it's
Speaker 1: pretty desolate, high desert with chaparral thirty five hundred feet
Speaker 1: over sea level, nothing but brown during the summer months,
Speaker 1: and then it gets green with rain. But I think
Speaker 1: it rains like kind of like CALIFORNI fifteen inches a
Speaker 1: year or something, so not much wetness out there. So
Speaker 1: I decided to drive. We had four by four Montero
Speaker 1: with brand new tires. So I saw the road. We
Speaker 1: lived right on the base on the base fencing, a
Speaker 1: ten foot high barbed wire fence, and there was a
Speaker 1: road that crossed on the outside of it looked like
Speaker 1: it would go right to this lake that I found
Speaker 1: on GPS. So I went outside the base gate, turned right,
Speaker 1: followed the road. I saw my house exiting I said,
Speaker 1: this will be fun. Nobody around, not a single car,
Speaker 1: and it was the morning. So I drove one mile
Speaker 1: two miles, a lot of potholes, bumps in this eight
Speaker 1: foot one road pathway wasn't paved. It was just all
Speaker 1: dirt through sagebrush. And about three miles, about halfway to
Speaker 1: the lake on the right side where they do farm,
Speaker 1: I saw this black, tall creature maybe five hundred yards away.
Speaker 3: Really really a way out there, but the ground is
Speaker 3: all brown.
Speaker 1: And there's like circles where they grow things with the sprinklers,
Speaker 1: you know, they go around in circles. And there was
Speaker 1: this black creature and it looked like he had a
Speaker 1: dog head or a wolf head with a snout, big
Speaker 1: long hair. I didn't have binoculars. It was only the
Speaker 1: naked eye. And it's really strange. So I stopped the car,
Speaker 1: looked out the window and saw him move a very
Speaker 1: little bit. He couldn't see me, but I could see
Speaker 1: this entity, whatever it was. And as you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's not many things out there. There's coyotes. There's those
Speaker 1: they're not deer or are they called they they're the
Speaker 1: fastest land animal in the country.
Speaker 3: Prong horn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that may be the prong horn. Yeah, but nothing
Speaker 1: black and nothing seven or eight foot tall. So I
Speaker 1: was just like, I don't know what that is, but
Speaker 1: that was weird. So I kept driving to the lake,
Speaker 1: had a good day of fishing, caught catfish, caught my
Speaker 1: biggest twenty five pound catfish, almost three feet long. Never
Speaker 1: saw another fisherman there, unvisited area, had a great time.
Speaker 1: I went down there two or three times more over
Speaker 1: the course of our we were there for four years,
Speaker 1: stationed there for four years, and this is maybe a
Speaker 1: year two.
Speaker 3: So that was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: I might notched it down as to something I don't
Speaker 1: remember looking up what it could have been. I didn't
Speaker 1: know about dog men back then, told my wife, so
Speaker 1: let's go six months forward, and this is where the
Speaker 1: big sighting that woke me up to the entire theme
Speaker 1: of dog man or cryptids. I was going to visit
Speaker 1: that same lake, but the other side of it. So
Speaker 1: I had in this case to go outside the base gate.
Speaker 1: Intead of turning right, I turned left on a paved road,
Speaker 1: went maybe ten fifteen miles down south of the base,
Speaker 1: and then I went east towards the lake along the
Speaker 1: Snake River, anyone's familiar with the Snake River. It goes
Speaker 1: quite a ways in through Idaho, and I think it
Speaker 1: turns up into Montana and it's fed by the Rocky mountains.
Speaker 3: So I went out to the lake.
Speaker 1: I did some fishing and bass fishing, did pretty well,
Speaker 1: had a few to bring back home to cook that night,
Speaker 1: and I was returning home. So I'm driving parallel to
Speaker 1: the Snake River, about twenty five miles from the base
Speaker 1: from Mountain Home Air Force Base if you were to
Speaker 1: go straight line, and it was starting to get dark,
Speaker 1: or it was about ready to hit dusk, like the
Speaker 1: sun was going down. And as I was driving home
Speaker 1: on a two lane paved road, the river's on my
Speaker 1: left and there's a bank that maybe goes up fifteen
Speaker 1: feet high, and I'm driving along on all of us.
Speaker 1: I looked to the right left driving in, and nobody's
Speaker 1: out there on the road, and holy crap, I saw
Speaker 1: three black creatures. And the one I saw six months
Speaker 1: before just popped in my mind. Is that with the
Speaker 1: one I saw, it was like one hundred yards away,
Speaker 1: just five times closer. And I put my brakes and
Speaker 1: it stopped as quietly as I could because I had
Speaker 1: already passed them.
Speaker 3: I knew.
Speaker 1: I looked up there and saw three seven to eight
Speaker 1: foot tall, hairy black creature, your solid jet black with
Speaker 1: a dog face, and it looked like you remember the
Speaker 1: old Werewolf movies something like that, and it's just like whoa.
Speaker 1: I backed up slowly in the car and they were gone. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, I thought, being the adventurer that I am,
Speaker 1: all you gotta do is pull over the side, put
Speaker 1: my hatters on and go up there and see. At
Speaker 1: that time, we didn't even have cell phones, because it
Speaker 1: was like fourteen years ago, just coming from Germany where
Speaker 1: we didn't have cell phones. We only had those phone
Speaker 1: cards to call, if you remember the phone cards. So
Speaker 1: I wish I would have had a camera or a
Speaker 1: cell phone to take pictures, but I didn't. And I
Speaker 1: stood there and thought, do I want to take the chance?
Speaker 1: And I did not go up and it always I mean,
Speaker 1: I could have got footprints.
Speaker 3: I could have.
Speaker 1: I could have looked around see where the heck they
Speaker 1: would have went. That that's a total of four creatures
Speaker 1: that looked identical to each other. And that's when I
Speaker 1: did a deep dive and the internet was you know,
Speaker 1: it started twenty five years ago, so it's fourteen years ago.
Speaker 1: It was starting to pop up, and I did a
Speaker 1: YouTube search and I found dog Man because that's what
Speaker 1: it looked like, creatures that looked like dogs in the
Speaker 1: high desert, and there had been sightings, and I came
Speaker 1: to realization I just seen something much like Bigfoot, because
Speaker 1: I learned about all the Bigfoot sightings in the Northwest
Speaker 1: earlier than that, and so I had to share it
Speaker 1: with people with talking to my wife said are you
Speaker 1: sure it wasn't just a big dog or no, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a dog, it wasn't a bear on the high
Speaker 1: desert chaparral, and it's kind of if you just jump
Speaker 1: the lake or I saw these coming back. They probably
Speaker 1: were only ten miles apart. The one was on the
Speaker 1: western side of the lake. The other are three or
Speaker 1: on the eastern side of the lake. And there's one
Speaker 1: way to visit the lake with these dirt roads surrounding
Speaker 1: the lake. And those are my two sightings and I'll
Speaker 1: stick to it to the day I die that I
Speaker 1: did see and they all looked identical, like nothing adolescent
Speaker 1: or small. I think they were adults. I don't know
Speaker 1: how tall you've ever seen or heard people see they
Speaker 1: say they were, but.
Speaker 3: They were bigger than I was. I'm six foot two.
Speaker 2: Well they are credible eyewitnesses who reported seeing twelve footers,
Speaker 2: so they can get to be a lot bigger than that.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow is right, Well a lot of things about them.
Speaker 2: Wow is the best way to describe it or sum
Speaker 2: it up. It really is. Did I hear you correctly?
Speaker 2: Did you really wait that long to tell your wife
Speaker 2: about that first sighting at Striker Lake or did you
Speaker 2: tell her almost right away?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if anyone wants to go check out to see
Speaker 1: to have an adventure, I beg them to do it,
Speaker 1: or if you've got time.
Speaker 3: CJ.
Speaker 1: Striker Reservoir. It's part of the Snake River. They just
Speaker 1: dam it to build the water up for agriculture, water
Speaker 1: and flood control of that kind of stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I've been married thirty three years. So I
Speaker 1: came home and told her about my sightings both times.
Speaker 1: But she's one of these conservative Catholics, doesn't really really
Speaker 1: want to believe or doesn't believe period in this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Like percent of the human race, I would say,
Speaker 1: even my buddies in the Northwest when I go up
Speaker 1: to visit Portland, Oregon, we'd have beers and I tell
Speaker 1: them about it, and they'd laugh because none of them
Speaker 1: are adventurous as I am. I used to go out
Speaker 1: with my fourth first View or a Ford Courier in
Speaker 1: my motorcycle and drive the back roads from the top
Speaker 1: of the Cascades to the coast to the BlackBerry River
Speaker 1: off in the haleem Or there's nothing, but you know
Speaker 1: the Tillam Burn. It's a world famous burn in the twenties,
Speaker 1: huge forest, go deep deep in there. Before I knew
Speaker 1: about bigfoot, but I keep thinking I camped there fished.
Speaker 1: That would have been a great place to see a
Speaker 1: bigfoot if there ever was one. But yeah, I never
Speaker 1: expected anything this huge to live out in a high
Speaker 1: desert chaparral area with sagebrush and the lake.
Speaker 2: Well, you never expect to see these guys until you do.
Speaker 2: That's how normally goes. Your buddies know about your encounters now.
Speaker 2: But when you're in the military, I'm sure you kept
Speaker 2: those experiences close to the vest for obvious reasons, didn't you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, although you do. You've heard of these
Speaker 1: military members that that after World War two, there was
Speaker 1: UFOs or the Montana Missi layer bases. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is you know David Politis Politis, Oh yeah, yeah, he
Speaker 1: just had a big Foot movie released three months ago maybe,
Speaker 1: and he's thinking that not only are these sightings real,
Speaker 1: but they're connected with aliens and UFOs, which goes goes,
Speaker 1: kind of goes way out there, because if they were
Speaker 1: out there, you hope to hear more than just the
Speaker 1: sounds and the bigfoot casings that they pour plaster in
Speaker 1: or hairs. You think you'd have a body. So where's
Speaker 1: where are the bodies? If these are real sightings? That's
Speaker 1: why science does not actually share with us.
Speaker 3: They are real creatures.
Speaker 1: They've sent in blood and they have DNA that's un
Speaker 1: corroborated with any scientific evidence that matches with anything known
Speaker 1: on Earth. But you know, you have sightings on all
Speaker 1: seven continents YETI and you probably could share with the
Speaker 1: listener how many tens and tens of different languages there
Speaker 1: are that equates to Bigfoot? Are there other languages to
Speaker 1: talk about dogmen in other countries as well?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: See that's the thing. When dogmen communicate with eyewitnesses, it's
Speaker 2: via telepathy, so they don't speak the spoken word the
Speaker 2: way people have reported hearing sasquatch do. So when you're hearing,
Speaker 2: in most cases, it's your own voice that you hear.
Speaker 2: Not every time. Some people hear a different voice in
Speaker 2: their head. But in a lot of cases, the eyewitnesses
Speaker 2: hear these words spoken in their heads, in their own voices.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I said, with sasquatch, in some cases,
Speaker 2: the sasquatch apparently say the words out loud. I'll never
Speaker 2: understand that. But there's been a lot of reputable eyewitnesses
Speaker 2: who reported experiencing man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like that old older he was in his
Speaker 1: forties with a group of hunters north of where the
Speaker 1: Patterson Gimlin film was put in in California, in the Sierras,
Speaker 1: and he has those recordings of those crazy e owls
Speaker 1: and screams and and noises that he attributes to Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: But do dog men make noises? Are they howling like
Speaker 1: the werewolves? Or have you heard of people stating that
Speaker 1: they heard a dog man's make noise all the time?
Speaker 2: Okay, hmm, did you ever go back there to strike
Speaker 2: a reservoir after seeing that first dog man?
Speaker 3: The second one?
Speaker 2: No, the first dog man when you had that first encounter,
Speaker 2: did you ever? I guess we had the second encounter
Speaker 2: close to the same spot, but on the other side
Speaker 2: of the reservoir, So apparently you did go back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that summer or the summer after I took
Speaker 1: my whole family, we went camping on the lake at
Speaker 1: a big camp ground with tens of other visitors. Typical
Speaker 1: place a human being would visit a natural lake, or
Speaker 1: along the Snake River.
Speaker 3: We'd go down.
Speaker 1: To the dam just to I went river rafting into
Speaker 1: the Hell's Canyon on the Snake West. Actually it's actually
Speaker 1: deeper than Grand Canyon. I did that for a whole week,
Speaker 1: but never saw any creatures on that visit. Just had
Speaker 1: a blast in the river raft and you know, ate
Speaker 1: off the river and fished and that was a really,
Speaker 1: really great time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like a good time. But since it
Speaker 2: wasn't that long after that first sighting that you were
Speaker 2: camping with your family in that area, could enjoy yourself.
Speaker 1: I did, because the first one I really never notched
Speaker 1: it as a sighting per se. It's just like something
Speaker 1: I saw and didn't even look it up. Probably a
Speaker 1: lot like a lot of a lot of other people
Speaker 1: that have something they see that's very unusual. But to
Speaker 1: actually see these things twice, that's what really pinned into me.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is something that's unrecognized by science,
Speaker 1: and I need to let the world know.
Speaker 2: That they may indeed be real creatures. Yeah, they definitely are.
Speaker 2: You went from never seeing a dog man in your
Speaker 2: life having two encounters within the span of six months.
Speaker 2: With that in mind, do you think those two encounters
Speaker 2: were related somehow?
Speaker 1: Yes, and no, because they were seen in about the
Speaker 1: same area, within ten or fifteen miles ab you know,
Speaker 1: and we just have it. It's not part of the
Speaker 1: military base, but it's where all the F sixteens fly over.
Speaker 1: And there's a reason for that because there's nobody domicile
Speaker 1: or residing down there unless it's on the snake off
Speaker 1: the snake. But yeah, it's all high desert. If you
Speaker 1: look on the map, you'll see it's kind of like
Speaker 1: Nevada as there's not many people, not many cities that
Speaker 1: live there.
Speaker 3: In Idaho. It's the southern eastern portion of Idaho.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a lot of good area for a dog
Speaker 2: mean to hang out, So no wonder they're there. You
Speaker 2: didn't talk openly about this experience or those two experiences
Speaker 2: that you had. But with that in mind, how fearful
Speaker 2: were you still that the Air Force would find out
Speaker 2: about those encounters.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hear study or reports of people seeing like what's
Speaker 1: that one with.
Speaker 3: Will Smith men in black?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's helicopters, black SUVs that come out after
Speaker 1: citing after the rangers or people from the fishing game
Speaker 1: have been told about this. And I've heard there's been
Speaker 1: these entities, f CIA, FBI, whatever, they come out and
Speaker 1: try to do their best to take whatever they that
Speaker 1: were reported to be seen out of the environment. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's true. It's kind of like one
Speaker 1: of those Smithsonian we said it to the Smithsonian, you
Speaker 1: never see it again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the government definitely doesn't want you to have in
Speaker 2: the evidence. It's so impressive that it might move the
Speaker 2: needle towards proving their existence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because there's so much money involved visiting these.
Speaker 3: Parks, the national parks.
Speaker 1: And today when you hear about four one one and
Speaker 1: David Politis four movies about the missing in individuals in
Speaker 1: the in the huge Yosemite, Yellowstone mount Rainier, all the
Speaker 1: national parks, we have. It really makes you wonder hundreds
Speaker 1: and hundreds of people that went out camping or hiking
Speaker 1: and never returned.
Speaker 2: We don't handle crisises very well at all. So if
Speaker 2: the government let it out of the bag, they guess what,
Speaker 2: in a forest near you, there's every possibilitether you might
Speaker 2: have something or some things running around that look like
Speaker 2: we're wolves. I don't think the public's going to handle
Speaker 2: that very well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's that's the conclusion I've come up
Speaker 1: with too. There's got to be a reason why, I mean,
Speaker 1: the media is so I don't know why they're so biased.
Speaker 1: It seems like the deep state or something very very
Speaker 1: wealthy is paying these people off not to declare the truth.
Speaker 1: And then of course whatever we hear are conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: I see Bigfoot is very and dogmen similar to that.
Speaker 2: Well, when it boils down to it, the media companies,
Speaker 2: they're really indirectly controlled by the government anyway. They're allowing
Speaker 2: the government in so many ways that if they run
Speaker 2: a foul of the government, the brass of those companies
Speaker 2: they know full well that the government can make things
Speaker 2: really difficult on them. So they really are in the
Speaker 2: government's back pocket.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we live in a free country. Right to bear
Speaker 1: arms for good reason when we were all just frontiersmen
Speaker 1: trying to survive, make a buck. But how many tens
Speaker 1: of billions of dollars are spent on these secret entities
Speaker 1: to hide the truth. What Jack Nicholas is saying, a
Speaker 1: few good men you can't handle the truth. I find
Speaker 1: that to be so true.
Speaker 2: That sure is true. Yeah, there's a lot of truth
Speaker 2: to that. When you saw that first dog, mean, he said,
Speaker 2: it was about five hundred yards from you. Now, it
Speaker 2: couldn't see you, you said, But did it still seem
Speaker 2: to already be aware of your presence?
Speaker 3: I e.
Speaker 2: Was your manterro loud or had you done anything else
Speaker 2: that might have tipped off your presence to it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, no, I again, it was so far away, but
Speaker 1: I watched him for about two minutes, and I could
Speaker 1: have kept watching him, but he didn't seem like he
Speaker 1: knew I was there eyeballing him. But I will tell
Speaker 1: you the second sighting, when I had passed in my montero,
Speaker 1: maybe going forty five miles an hour, I saw these dogs,
Speaker 1: these dog men, they were all looking at me in
Speaker 1: my car, so in the second sighting, these three individuals
Speaker 1: saw me, and you can only five seconds later when
Speaker 1: I backed up, they were gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as close as you were to the three, it's
Speaker 2: no wonder they saw yet on.
Speaker 1: Top of them almost And we all know dogs and
Speaker 1: German shepherds there. They're hearing is amazingly. I don't know
Speaker 1: how many times better than human beings are, but their
Speaker 1: their senses are peaked.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. They can probably smell and hear better than
Speaker 2: pretty much any dog out there anyway. So yeah, no one.
Speaker 3: Tale about that.
Speaker 1: The fastest prong horn, Yeah, that's how they capture these things.
Speaker 1: If that's what they're eating, and coyotes, there's not much
Speaker 1: out there other than those two species.
Speaker 2: Yeah, prong horns are the fastest land animals in North America.
Speaker 2: If they got down prong horns, that's awfully impressive. Which
Speaker 2: people have headed down the highway and reported them hitting
Speaker 2: sixties sixty five talking about dogmen of course, So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm sure they can catch them.
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 1: You have people saying they thought they were going sixty
Speaker 1: five miles an hour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible eyewitnesses. I can't remember the highway out there
Speaker 2: in Nevada, but for a while there were truckers who
Speaker 2: were talking about how if you had down this one
Speaker 2: particular highway. It was kind of a well known secret
Speaker 2: that if you had down this one highway in the
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere in Nevada late at night, that quote unquote,
Speaker 2: we're wolves would commonly run next to your trailer, kind
Speaker 2: of race your truck. It was kind of like a
Speaker 2: poorly kept secret. But yeah, they would be trucking along
Speaker 2: at sixty five, maybe even a little faster than sixty five,
Speaker 2: and they were seeing that the quote unquote were wolves.
Speaker 2: That is we're keeping up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that reminds me, and I haven't brought this up
Speaker 1: for very many people. I was driving when we were
Speaker 1: get restationed to San Diego from Mountain Home. We'd put
Speaker 1: all of our home goods on a truck, but we
Speaker 1: had to get the four of us the eleven or
Speaker 1: miles to our Southern California duty station. Driving at like
Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning, north south north of Vegas,
Speaker 1: and I saw three eyeballs, three sets of eyeballs, off
Speaker 1: the off the freeway. They were like four feet tall.
Speaker 1: Tell me anything that lives that's got eyeballs four.
Speaker 3: Feet tall off the ground.
Speaker 1: You know that your headlight hits when you got on
Speaker 1: the high beams no one else is on the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty high, unless they were cattle or something
Speaker 2: like that. Could you tell if the eyeballs were right
Speaker 2: on the front of their heads, of the creature's heads,
Speaker 2: or if they were on the sides in.
Speaker 3: Middle of nowhere. I never saw a body.
Speaker 1: I just saw these three eyeballs and I woke up
Speaker 1: my wife, Honey, did you know I was sleeping? That's
Speaker 1: not much evidence was that I saw them and kept driving.
Speaker 3: So I'll bet that woke you up. Yeah. I had
Speaker 3: a lot of coffee that night.
Speaker 2: I get this A to B, but didn't wake up
Speaker 2: like that. Did I'm sure it might seem like a
Speaker 2: strange question, Kevin, but were you glad in a way
Speaker 2: that you saw that first dog me in because a
Speaker 2: lot of people wouldn't have been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't seem ready to pounce on me. He
Speaker 3: didn't go away from what he was doing. Maybe it was.
Speaker 1: It was early morning, Amy, he was just doing his thing.
Speaker 1: I've been looking for prairie dogs or whatever else is
Speaker 1: out there. But it was definitely an eye opener, and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I saw the first one because it
Speaker 1: woke me up to what I just had seen late
Speaker 1: that summer, that very same year.
Speaker 3: The second time.
Speaker 2: Around, if you have to have a dog mean encounter,
Speaker 2: it's always best to have it at a good distance.
Speaker 2: With that in mind, considering how much closer you were
Speaker 2: when you had that second encounter, Are you glad that
Speaker 2: your first one happened at such a good distance to
Speaker 2: kind of warm you up for the second one in
Speaker 2: a way?
Speaker 3: Indeed, I sure am, But hindsight is twenty twenty. I
Speaker 3: wish I would have had the.
Speaker 1: Guts just to pull, you know, do it, as I
Speaker 1: said before, just to go go check it out, look
Speaker 1: for footprints.
Speaker 3: It was just right up.
Speaker 1: There on top of the bank, just off the bank
Speaker 1: about I mean fifty foot haul and one hundred yards back,
Speaker 1: so three hundred feet. But this is so obvious, no one,
Speaker 1: no one could.
Speaker 3: Say it was anything else.
Speaker 1: What else is seven feet tall and dark black, long
Speaker 1: fur with a dog's face a big five inch long muzzle.
Speaker 2: For clarity, you're saying that you wish you would have
Speaker 2: had the courage to go back, or the wherewith fall
Speaker 2: to go back with maybe ten in one Abrams with
Speaker 2: you and a whole squadron to go up onto that
Speaker 2: bank and look for footprints. Or are you saying that
Speaker 2: you wish you would have just stopped the car right
Speaker 2: there and then after they left, gone up there to
Speaker 2: take a look.
Speaker 3: Both.
Speaker 1: I wish I got it, would have done it right
Speaker 1: then and there and they can maybe come back with
Speaker 1: a couple of friends that that following weekend.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just imagine if you would have gotten out right
Speaker 2: then and there, headed up there and they came back.
Speaker 1: That's what I Yeah, it's just such an out of
Speaker 1: this world witness experience. I just something in me. It's
Speaker 1: just that this is not a good time. It's almost
Speaker 1: getting dark, and anyone else to say, are you crazy?
Speaker 1: So that's one of the many, many reasons why I think.
Speaker 1: You know, hunters go out, they've been doing it for
Speaker 1: decades and then one time it happens they say, I
Speaker 1: never returned to that hunting spot and fishing or whatever
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, to get out in their land.
Speaker 1: That is their land. They were here first. So but
Speaker 1: have you have you if I may ask, in the
Speaker 1: in the decade or so, you've been doing these sightings
Speaker 1: and witnesses and interviews. Has anyone ever been hurt when
Speaker 1: they go out and did someone say they chased them?
Speaker 2: Well, I get asked that all the time, and the
Speaker 2: answer to that question is, I've spoken with over five
Speaker 2: thousand dogmen eyewitnesses now since I spoke with the verse
Speaker 2: one in two thousand and seven, and I can tell
Speaker 2: you the grand total of credible eyewitnesses who've ever told
Speaker 2: me over the years about being intentionally harmed by the
Speaker 2: dog men or dog men as sometimes happens, that they
Speaker 2: had an encounter or encounters with the grand total of
Speaker 2: people who told me that they were intentionally harmed who
Speaker 2: are credible, that number is seven, eight, maybe nine. So
Speaker 2: what does that tell us right there? It tells us
Speaker 2: that they show a lot of control. They really do
Speaker 2: show a lot of control because so many of those
Speaker 2: people were caught dead, nuts to rights and a very
Speaker 2: compromising circumstance where those dogmen, if they wanted to do
Speaker 2: whatever to them, could have easily done so, but they
Speaker 2: let them leave. Now, when I say that, I always
Speaker 2: have people get up in arms and say, well, VIC
Speaker 2: says these things are safe. You can bring them home
Speaker 2: as pets and have them laying there at your feet
Speaker 2: when you're watching TV. No, not at all. Never say
Speaker 2: that dog men are any safer to be around than
Speaker 2: anything else that is big and powerful and has sharp
Speaker 2: claws and big teeth. But I will tell you that
Speaker 2: they show a lot of control whenever, will almost whenever
Speaker 2: people have encounters with them, because if they didn't, then
Speaker 2: those numbers would be totally different. I use this example
Speaker 2: all the time. If you go down to Texas where
Speaker 2: fire ants are all over the place, if you put
Speaker 2: your hand on one hundred different fire ant mounds, how
Speaker 2: many times out of one hundred are you going to
Speaker 2: get lit up? Well? The answer to that question is easy,
Speaker 2: one hundred out of one hundred, because firey ants are
Speaker 2: wired to be very aggressive and dangerous by nature, so
Speaker 2: it's a repeatable result. Every time that you put your
Speaker 2: hand on a fire ant mound, you're going to get
Speaker 2: lit up. Well. If dog men were wired to be
Speaker 2: so dangerous to us and wired to rip us apart
Speaker 2: as soon as the opportunity presented itself, then every time
Speaker 2: or almost every time that people encountered them, especially in
Speaker 2: a compromising circumstance, then these people would have been attacked,
Speaker 2: not allowed to leave. In so many cases. If I
Speaker 2: would have only spoken with twenty people who fit that example,
Speaker 2: that'd be one thing. The sample size there is not
Speaker 2: nearly big enough to come to the conclusion I have
Speaker 2: over the years, but I've spoken with thousands of people
Speaker 2: who've been in that circumstance where they were just dead
Speaker 2: to rights, vulnerable. The dog man could have done whatever
Speaker 2: it wanted to do and like I said, and let
Speaker 2: them go. So there's definitely a pattern there that's been
Speaker 2: established that tells me these guys, like I said, are
Speaker 2: not wired by nature to rip us apart as soon
Speaker 2: as the opportunity presents itself. Now, having said that, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do believe they're a dangerous dogmen out there, and
Speaker 2: I've said this countless times before. I do think they're
Speaker 2: a dangerous dogmen out there who will kill people if
Speaker 2: they get the opportunity. They're probably looking for an opportunity
Speaker 2: to do that because they're deviant ones. They're not what
Speaker 2: would be considered the norm psychologically for dog men. Even so, yeah,
Speaker 2: I do believe they're a dangerous dog men. But to
Speaker 2: land this plane, I think we're talking about an exception
Speaker 2: there instead of the norm. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: It does?
Speaker 1: And We see this with the grizzly bear all over Alaska.
Speaker 1: They will come out and attack you because they see
Speaker 1: you as prey, not the black bear, the cougar. They're
Speaker 1: kind of like the Sasquatch and dogmen. They're programmed not
Speaker 1: to even entertain the idea unless they're hungry. And we've
Speaker 1: seen hikers and hikers get attacked in California, some killed,
Speaker 1: most of them just injured.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's definitely something worth keeping in mind. It really is.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: You told us that you wish she had a camera
Speaker 2: with you when you had that second encounter, But do
Speaker 2: you think you would have remembered or had the presence
Speaker 2: of mind to even pull it out and use it
Speaker 2: if you would have had one.
Speaker 1: I asked to myself that a thousand times, and you
Speaker 1: hear tons and tons of people say I had it
Speaker 1: in my car. I just didn't grab it. Something kept
Speaker 1: me from doing what I should have what I should
Speaker 1: have done. And yeah, it's interesting now a third time,
Speaker 1: I would most definitely take a picture.
Speaker 3: But how many people have seen these times? These things
Speaker 3: three times in a row.
Speaker 2: People have had cameras hanging from their necks when they've
Speaker 2: encountered these things. And that's kind of an ugly thing too,
Speaker 2: because you want to talk about people who beat themselves up.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're totally to themselves, just so disgusted they
Speaker 2: didn't think to pull the camera up.
Speaker 3: But I mean I.
Speaker 2: Heard a perfect example about a year or so ago.
Speaker 2: This guy was listening to a podcast, and like he said,
Speaker 2: if you have a camera hanging from your neck and
Speaker 2: someone puts you on a cage with a lion, how
Speaker 2: many pictures do you think you're going to get?
Speaker 3: It's the same thing. That's a good analogy. It's almost PTSD. Yeah,
Speaker 3: being in the military, I learned all about that.
Speaker 1: And here hearing from World War Two, Korea, Vietnam vets.
Speaker 1: They saw something that was not known to man as
Speaker 1: being even around, but they witnessed death, an injury, and
Speaker 1: horrific acts and they can't sleep at night. So that
Speaker 1: hasn't impacted me in that way. It's more of a wow.
Speaker 1: I saw that. I would love to be able to
Speaker 1: see it again, but in California, i'd have to go
Speaker 1: up to the severe Sierra Nevadas. I'm busy raising my
Speaker 1: two kids, but maybe when I hit sixty two and
Speaker 1: the kids are in college, I can go out and
Speaker 1: go camping.
Speaker 2: I sure hope you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just four or five hours north. Mount Whitney's right there,
Speaker 1: three ninety five, all of the Sierra Nevada.
Speaker 2: You've got so much life ahead of you. Really would
Speaker 2: be a shame if you didn't have a chance to
Speaker 2: go out and enjoy things like that. It really would
Speaker 2: try to get a picture right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's my two stories.
Speaker 2: You don't suffer from PTSD after having those two encounters,
Speaker 2: But how often do you still think about them?
Speaker 3: Almost every day?
Speaker 1: I you know, if I just retired four years ago,
Speaker 1: so I have a little more time on my hands
Speaker 1: besides chauffeuring my kids to and from school and practice.
Speaker 1: They're in water polo and swim. I see YouTube videos
Speaker 1: on a daily basis and dogmen, So I'm reminded of
Speaker 1: this on a daily basis. Now with AI today, it's
Speaker 1: much more difficult when you when you see a thirty
Speaker 1: second short.
Speaker 3: Just saw one two days ago.
Speaker 1: They looked like some guy was on top of a
Speaker 1: mountain looking at an elk, like a twelve point elk,
Speaker 1: and he said he witnessed a bigfoot attack the elk. Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean it looked like the real thing. But how
Speaker 1: do we know if it's AI or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, AI is such a problem when it comes to
Speaker 2: proving of the existence of cryptids. Now you really can't
Speaker 2: tell for sure what you're looking at.
Speaker 3: No, you don't, you can't.
Speaker 1: So and then the whole thing with Patterson's son coming
Speaker 1: out and said he saw his dad burned a Bigfoot suit,
Speaker 1: and then and he told them not to ever tell him,
Speaker 1: and then he twelve with his mom, Patterson's wife. Patterson
Speaker 1: died shortly after the sighting, but his wife's shared with
Speaker 1: his son, I was told by your father never to
Speaker 1: tell that I made all this up. And because they
Speaker 1: made like ten million dollars off the sightings and everything
Speaker 1: they had to do with Bigfoot showing the film again,
Speaker 1: So are you familiar with that sixty seven film that
Speaker 1: came out.
Speaker 2: I sure I am. And yeah, that whole story about
Speaker 2: burning the suit is nonsense. Who made the suit? That's
Speaker 2: a common argument about it being a hoax. But I
Speaker 2: spoke with a man who was the most capable man
Speaker 2: back then in sixty seven when it came to making
Speaker 2: a suit just like that. I asked him, point blank,
Speaker 2: could you have made a suit like that? He said,
Speaker 2: in no uncertain terms, There's no way I could have
Speaker 2: made that. We just did not have the technology. So,
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned, that claim that he made
Speaker 2: about the suits and seeing it burnt nonsense, And don't
Speaker 2: buy it for a.
Speaker 1: Second, good because how could one person totally denounce all
Speaker 1: of what we've all been seeing for decades after that film?
Speaker 3: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a cryptid field. You have things like that now.
Speaker 2: When you had your second encounter, you saw three of them,
Speaker 2: of course, But did any of the three seem to
Speaker 2: be an alpha?
Speaker 3: They were all exactly the same heights.
Speaker 2: You said, they were all three the same height, But
Speaker 2: did one seem to act more dominant than the other two?
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I remember them up on the shelf above my car,
Speaker 1: all like standing in a triangle and looking at me,
Speaker 1: probably just three feet apart from one another, like you
Speaker 1: were in a.
Speaker 2: Huddle, hopefully not in a huddle trying to decide what
Speaker 2: to do to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think they just heard the car and
Speaker 1: then heard my brakes and said let's get the heck
Speaker 1: out of here, And that's why they were not there
Speaker 1: any longer when I tried to see him again. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we caught. It was eye to eye witnessing. They saw me,
Speaker 1: I saw them.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine the thoughts going through your head.
Speaker 3: I want to go back there.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Well someday you just might. I hope you can,
Speaker 2: if that's what you want to do. I really do. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the answer to this next question is yes.
Speaker 2: But then again, you know what happens when you assume
Speaker 2: before you found out what they really were, ie dog men,
Speaker 2: did you think that you had seen were wolves?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's what they look like. You go back
Speaker 1: and watch those werewolf movies shot thirty forty years ago.
Speaker 3: That's what they look like, solid jet.
Speaker 1: Black, dark black, long, long hair, maybe twelve inches long.
Speaker 1: I mean, during the summertime, how can they even It
Speaker 1: gets hot out there in the desert, really hot.
Speaker 2: Some people think that that long hair connect as insulation
Speaker 2: against the heat.
Speaker 3: Okay, but the color black only absorbs heat.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's a good point. There's so many things
Speaker 2: about these things that we just don't understand, and I'd
Speaker 2: say never will.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: By the way, how big is Mountain Home Air Force Base?
Speaker 2: I meant to ask you that earlier.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's not that big.
Speaker 1: Maybe a couple thousand individuals with pilots, navigators, support staff.
Speaker 1: There's a medical clinic there and all the surrounding buildings
Speaker 1: to house individuals that work there on base. It supports
Speaker 1: fighter jets and cargo jets, and Singapore has been allowed
Speaker 1: to stay there and train with the F sixteen FA
Speaker 1: teen pilots.
Speaker 3: I think they have a couple of thirty five's there too.
Speaker 2: Well, it might not be a very big base, but
Speaker 2: if they have all that going on there, it must
Speaker 2: be a fairly major basin.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's just all for training the pilots
Speaker 1: to get good at what they do, or like.
Speaker 3: The war going on right now and the Blue Angels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be a fairly major base. Then you
Speaker 2: didn't know about dog mean before you had your encounters.
Speaker 2: But how much do you think that helped or hurt
Speaker 2: your ability to come to terms with those experiences?
Speaker 1: I wish I would have known more, but having seen them,
Speaker 1: I don't think it would affect well, the first one.
Speaker 1: Maybe I WoT I would have got closer, you know,
Speaker 1: had I known about them.
Speaker 3: Oh there's a dog man.
Speaker 1: Wow, let's pull up see if I can get a
Speaker 1: closer view of them. But you know, what would I
Speaker 1: have done had I got closed there? Would he have run?
Speaker 1: Would he have run to me? I mean, we're not
Speaker 1: on a safari here, and no one's ever I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, well, what can you tell me? What are
Speaker 3: usually people? Do? They try to chase after him?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I've ever spoken with anyone who's
Speaker 2: ever told me about running after them. Normally is either
Speaker 2: a case of them being frozen in place or them
Speaker 2: trying to get the heck out of the area. But yeah,
Speaker 2: running after one, I don't think that's a good move
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 3: I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I think because the first one didn't see me or
Speaker 1: didn't look at me. He just wanted to allow on
Speaker 1: his business, didn't move anywhere, he stayed right where he was.
Speaker 1: I looked at my rear view mirror as I passed
Speaker 1: by him. You seemingly was the same place. So hmm,
Speaker 1: I said, I got you know two, Like you said,
Speaker 1: they either sit and get really uh still, or they
Speaker 1: get the heck heck out of dodge and leave quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it normally goes. What's about time for
Speaker 2: us to get out of here, Kevin. But before we do,
Speaker 2: do you have any clothes in comments you want to
Speaker 2: put out there for us.
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for your time today,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your good questions and your acknowledgment of
Speaker 1: this being the scripted being being alive and well out there,
Speaker 1: and sharing with me why the government may indeed want
Speaker 1: to hide it keep it hidden. I can certainly see
Speaker 1: the reasons. But if you consider the population of America
Speaker 1: three un and fifty million people, and you've been interviewed
Speaker 1: five thousands, probably several other people that do your job,
Speaker 1: that's a very very small question of the actual witnesses.
Speaker 3: So I'll bring this to my grave and we'll get
Speaker 3: to see two of them at two different times.
Speaker 2: That's wild, well more than what you would think. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it seems like there's a pattern. Once you have a
Speaker 2: dog men the counter, it does increase the odds of
Speaker 2: you having another one. That's not always a case, not
Speaker 2: by a long shot, but it does seem to kind
Speaker 2: of pull the veil back a little bit. But we
Speaker 2: can make a whole nother show about that. Having said
Speaker 2: all that, though, Kevin, thanks again so much for coming
Speaker 2: on to tell us about those experiences. And please remember
Speaker 2: if I can never help you out in the future.
Speaker 2: Just let me know and I'll be there for you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, Vic, you have a good one. You too.
Speaker 2: We'll see