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<v Speaker 1>The bottom.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, welcome to another open forum. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be discussing any debate topic relating to the topics listed above.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are a dispensationalist, if you are an Evangelical, Protestant, Roman, Catholic, Hebrew, roots, Islam,

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<v Speaker 2>any form of Aryan, Modalist, Unitarian, oneness, any of those

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<v Speaker 2>are open subject as well. I didn't put atheists, but

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<v Speaker 2>atheists can come and debate as well if you like.

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<v Speaker 2>So pretty open tonight. Finish my third Hollywood book tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm in a good mood. I'm ready to relax.

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<v Speaker 2>Got the espresso Roland. I'm a little too tired to

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<v Speaker 2>do this on YouTube, so I don't feel like putting

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<v Speaker 2>all my panties and getting all spiced up for you

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<v Speaker 2>boys and girls. So I'm just relaxing in my pajamas

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<v Speaker 2>right now.

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<v Speaker 3>We're gonna have open debate.

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<v Speaker 2>The way this works is if you have not been

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<v Speaker 2>in here, if you hit request to speak, you will

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<v Speaker 2>pop up. I'll give you the microphone and then you

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<v Speaker 2>can talk for as long as you want. If you're

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<v Speaker 2>making arguments, if you know what it means to make

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<v Speaker 2>an argument, that of course helps. It has been arguing

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<v Speaker 2>it means that you present some thesis with supporting evidences

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<v Speaker 2>or some sort of logical argument. Otherwise we'll stick to

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<v Speaker 2>theology and church history as well.

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<v Speaker 3>FPV.

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<v Speaker 2>Keep in mind too, I'm a little tired because I

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<v Speaker 2>stayed a really late finishing the book, so I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>totally one hundred percent awake.

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<v Speaker 3>I woke.

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<v Speaker 2>I woke up kind of early to finish a little

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<v Speaker 2>finishing touches on it, so I'm.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of out of it today.

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<v Speaker 2>But that will give all the opponents a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a handicap. I'll have a handicap for the opponents.

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<v Speaker 2>P f PV flight Airborne get I'm mute.

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<v Speaker 3>Barely.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you calling me from the airplane? Yeah? Can you

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<v Speaker 2>hear me? That's better.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry they connected my truck.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Stephen.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm I'm typically an evangelist until I met your channel

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<v Speaker 5>in sam Humun, and I recently become a catechy because

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<v Speaker 5>of you. I brought it just some groups of people

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<v Speaker 5>that live out in the woods that are part of

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<v Speaker 5>a cult group, and I've been worried about them, so

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<v Speaker 5>I've been trying to show them evidence, historical and archaeological data,

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<v Speaker 5>and I saw a recent post from Capturing Christianity that

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<v Speaker 5>showed that there's some evidence that points Peter to the

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know if you've seen that that just came

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<v Speaker 5>out from Captain Christianity, but he was talking about the

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<v Speaker 5>news article that was posted about the home of Peter

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<v Speaker 5>and two of his followers and makes Peter elevated to

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<v Speaker 5>the position of pope.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, I don't believe in I'm not.

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<v Speaker 5>A follower of Roman Catholicism, but you know, I follow

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<v Speaker 5>up underneath my priests, the priests that I have now.

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<v Speaker 5>But I'm just wondering, what do you think about that

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<v Speaker 5>or do you know about it?

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I have no idea what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>How does that relate to the cult in the Woods.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so I'm trying to give them evidence and then

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<v Speaker 5>this evidence popped up and they're like, well, if you're

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<v Speaker 5>supposed to be going to the Orthodox Church, which I am,

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<v Speaker 5>then why are you not going to the Roman Catholic Church.

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<v Speaker 5>And then they showed that to me, and that just

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<v Speaker 5>you know, and then they showed news articles and I

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<v Speaker 5>was like, wow, I'll get back to you about that.

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<v Speaker 5>So I thought that I would hop on here and

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<v Speaker 5>ask you if you knew what I should say in response, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean my first thought would be this sounds really

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<v Speaker 2>outlandish and dubious. The point is not can you find

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<v Speaker 2>evidence in the early Church for the Bishop of Rome

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<v Speaker 2>having a first among equal status or a raised status

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<v Speaker 2>canonically speaking?

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<v Speaker 3>The question is where does that? How does that prove?

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<v Speaker 3>Vatican One.

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<v Speaker 2>The burden of proof of the Roman Catholic when they

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<v Speaker 2>argue that infallibility and the Patrine Sea and all that

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<v Speaker 2>was there from the earliest days, as Vatican One says,

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<v Speaker 2>is that they have to prove that. They have to

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<v Speaker 2>prove that the teachings of Vatican One were there. Otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>they have to prove that a doctrine of all and

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<v Speaker 2>that's self refuting, right, I thank you for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>I only had that one question.

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have any personal issues with Cameron anymore. But

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<v Speaker 2>Cameron is a committed evidentialists, which means that he thinks

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<v Speaker 2>that you just prove an argument by piling up suppose

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<v Speaker 2>that evidential claims.

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<v Speaker 3>But of course Christianity is an.

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<v Speaker 2>Entire paradigm and it's not going to be proven or

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<v Speaker 2>just proven by any single piece of data because everybody

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<v Speaker 2>interprets data according to their worldview, so I highly doubt

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<v Speaker 2>that there's any such thing as Peter's palm which proves

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<v Speaker 2>the papacy. It just sounds so outlandish on the on

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<v Speaker 2>the surface. Greg I.

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<v Speaker 6>Hello, Jay, Yeah, how you doing.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, what's up?

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<v Speaker 7>So?

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<v Speaker 6>I saw recently you were talking about the law of

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<v Speaker 6>identity and that God is required for the law of

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<v Speaker 6>identity to exist something like this. Maybe you could explain

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<v Speaker 6>your position a bit if I haven't summarized to the.

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<v Speaker 2>Being of God, who he is, the divine mind. The

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<v Speaker 2>attributes of God function as the grounding for logical categories

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<v Speaker 2>like the law of identity. The divine sir, you could

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<v Speaker 2>be of the divine being descried mind omni categories like omniscience.

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<v Speaker 2>That type of a being is the only type of

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<v Speaker 2>being that could function to ground something like a universal

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<v Speaker 2>law of identity.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, well, okay, I'm not going to say if I

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<v Speaker 6>was right now. I just wanted to ask you ask

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<v Speaker 6>you that and I'll think about it, maybe comment on

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<v Speaker 6>it in a future space.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Jay. Mm hmmm, Joseph, it's open form if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to pose a question.

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<v Speaker 3>Jay, tired, you're cutting an outlets. I can barely hear you, dude.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yo, we can't hear love.

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<v Speaker 3>We can't hear.

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<v Speaker 2>You, Noah? Is that better?

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<v Speaker 3>Coming out and coming back in?

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<v Speaker 2>All right? Yo? Can you hear me? Now?

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<v Speaker 3>Come out and come back in?

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<v Speaker 2>Man or I don't know. Walk to where you have

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<v Speaker 2>a good signal. It's up and for him. If you'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to come on and chat about any of the

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<v Speaker 2>topics listed, Zionism, Christians, Zionims, I mean, dispensationalism, Evangelicalismosis, and

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<v Speaker 2>Hebrew roots, Islam. They're all on the table tonight. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess atheism as well. Not really focusing on atheism tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>but if no one else calls in or has a

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<v Speaker 2>comment or question, we can do that. I thought we'd

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<v Speaker 2>get some more of these goobers coming in here, but

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<v Speaker 2>I guess they don't. I mean this, it's hard to

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<v Speaker 2>say like this. I've interacted with a lot of different

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<v Speaker 2>circles and some of these audiences are these groups are

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of saying store.

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<v Speaker 3>Ahead, go ahead, mil Hello, yell, what's up?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey Jay? Thanks for thanks for picking me.

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<v Speaker 8>But I just got a quick question, real quick that

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<v Speaker 8>I'm trying to understand a little bit I'm going.

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<v Speaker 4>Back and forth with one of my friends, and I

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<v Speaker 4>hope it's okay if I just asked the question.

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<v Speaker 8>Don't have a debate topic, but trying to understand the

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<v Speaker 8>essence energy distinction a little bit better. And I've talked

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<v Speaker 8>to some of my friends who say that the energy

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<v Speaker 8>is God and that's how they'll talk about it. But

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<v Speaker 8>it's I know, the energy is a thing, and the

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<v Speaker 8>essence is obviously the essence of God.

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<v Speaker 4>So uh.

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<v Speaker 3>Any energies are operations or actions.

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<v Speaker 2>Just like if you were to work or do an

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<v Speaker 2>act to build a house, you are fully present in

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<v Speaker 2>every one of your actions. They proceed from you as

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<v Speaker 2>a as a human being. Their actions proper to human nature,

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<v Speaker 2>but you are not identical to the action of building

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<v Speaker 2>a house. So in the same way, God's actions are

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<v Speaker 2>fully him, He's fully present in them, but he's not

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<v Speaker 2>reducible to or identical to.

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<v Speaker 8>His actions, right so you, So then we would say

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<v Speaker 8>that his energies are not him, right.

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<v Speaker 2>They are. They proceed from him in the same way

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<v Speaker 2>that you're working. Is what proceeds from you. It's an

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<v Speaker 2>it's an energy proper to your nature. So in one sense,

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<v Speaker 2>it is you, but another sense, it's not isomorphically reducible

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<v Speaker 2>to or identical to you.

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<v Speaker 4>M So what does that mean, like isomorphically and all.

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<v Speaker 3>That reduced to reductionist identity?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, gotcha?

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<v Speaker 2>Gotcha?

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<v Speaker 4>And would it thank you?

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<v Speaker 8>I appreciate that, and then would it would it be

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<v Speaker 8>right to say that?

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<v Speaker 4>And again I'm just learning, right, So this is gonna

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<v Speaker 4>sound hot, probably, But is God hidden in his energies?

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<v Speaker 4>Is that a stupid thing to say?

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<v Speaker 2>Now? The phrase theology of hidden ess is sometimes applied

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<v Speaker 2>to the essence. So God is unknowable by essence. That's

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<v Speaker 2>called apathetic theology. But he's knowable by his attributes or energies,

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<v Speaker 2>which Basil says in letter two thirty four come down

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<v Speaker 2>to us. So the energies are cataphatic, that is, positive

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<v Speaker 2>attributes or attributions that are knowable. The essence of God

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<v Speaker 2>is apathetic, unknowable.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, okay, all right, Jay? Well, hey, I appreciate your partner.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Good questions? Do you want to try again? Joseph?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that better?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>What's up? Jay?

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<v Speaker 9>So I got a couple questions. So I saw when

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<v Speaker 9>you were doing a debate. I watch Sam Shamon a

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<v Speaker 9>lot could you just expand if you don't mind, I

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<v Speaker 9>have a couple more questions so you can be short.

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<v Speaker 9>How does Catholic lead the modalism? I was born LDS.

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<v Speaker 9>I go to Trinity Church now since twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 9>I've spoken to you before, So can you, because I'm

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<v Speaker 9>obviously you know, can you explain how Catholic leads the modalism?

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<v Speaker 2>The Fourth Latteran Council defines God as identical to his

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<v Speaker 2>essence and his existence. So God just is the divine essence,

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<v Speaker 2>and the persons are also said to be by Quinas

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<v Speaker 2>and other theologians identical to the divine essence. So while

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<v Speaker 2>Catholics are not explicitly quote modalists, if they were consistent

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<v Speaker 2>with their doctrine of divine simplicity as outlined at the

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<v Speaker 2>Fourth Lattering Council, they would lead that.

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<v Speaker 3>Would lead to modalism. So that's the argument that we make.

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<v Speaker 2>Also, the Catholic teaching on participating in creative grace is

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<v Speaker 2>an outworking of the same idea. If they didn't believe

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<v Speaker 2>in an almost modalistic idea of divine simplicity, then they

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't teach creator grace because the whole reason they believe

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<v Speaker 2>that what we partake of in salvation is created is

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<v Speaker 2>because God is absolutely simple and you can't partake of him.

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah, the church cap Trinity Church today and it's obviously

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<v Speaker 9>artist and ex Catholic.

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<v Speaker 4>I hope would you be.

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<v Speaker 9>I've only been on my journey, you know, I can't.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't understand you, dude, can You're you're cutting out?

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<v Speaker 3>I can't. Your questions are coming through Sean Malicon in

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<v Speaker 3>your mind.

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<v Speaker 10>Yeah, so I'm not Roman Catholic.

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<v Speaker 11>I see you as more of like the Orthodox, more

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<v Speaker 11>of as brothers as enemies. So I'm just wondering exactly, Like,

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<v Speaker 11>I know your criticisms are like surrounding the like papal

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<v Speaker 11>infallibility and uh a postive apostilistic succession, But you seem

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<v Speaker 11>like a pretty reasonable guy, and considering like the Catholic

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<v Speaker 11>Church's history of being more based in reason and the

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<v Speaker 11>Orthodox Church being more based off of like the mysteries

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<v Speaker 11>like how.

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<v Speaker 10>You came to your decision at become.

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<v Speaker 3>Orthodox.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, yeah, it's simply but if Catholic, if

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<v Speaker 2>Catholic dogma contradicts the Catholicism is not true, I would

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<v Speaker 2>disagree that Orthodoxy is somehow based in quote, mysticism over reason.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that both East and West have always tried

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<v Speaker 2>to balance it out, and the West eventually failed at that.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Orthodox Church is not based on mysteries per se,

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<v Speaker 2>unless by that you mean the mystery of the Trinity.

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<v Speaker 2>But if the papacy contradicts augmatically, that invalidates the whole system.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not very I mean, you may not agree

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<v Speaker 2>with that, but I'm saying the argument is not that complex.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a pretty straightforward argument.

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<v Speaker 10>Are you there.

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<v Speaker 2>All right?

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<v Speaker 11>I guess yeah, thanks, I'll take that into considerate reason.

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<v Speaker 11>Just I find the Coffelice Church had more like.

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<v Speaker 2>A history.

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<v Speaker 11>Uh Like we just talked about a Queenes.

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<v Speaker 2>And uh, you're cutting out, man, I can't. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>hear any I find like come back out and people

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<v Speaker 2>come out, come out and come back in tadlaw, are you?

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<v Speaker 12>Uh so?

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<v Speaker 2>Man?

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<v Speaker 7>So, I have a degree in philosophy and I've written

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<v Speaker 7>a book on Christian metaphysics. I'm from the Oriental Orthodox tradition,

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<v Speaker 7>and I wanted to ask you what your understanding of

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<v Speaker 7>the Oriental Orthodox Christology.

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<v Speaker 2>We're currently doing a multi hour, multi part series which

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<v Speaker 2>we've completed two parts of on that very question. So

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with the positions that are outlined in the

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<v Speaker 2>Fifth Acumenical Council and in books like Saint Cyril of

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<v Speaker 2>Alexander in the Christological Controversy by mcguckan. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to take a look at those books for the

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<v Speaker 2>recent to part one in part two that we've done

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<v Speaker 2>on Oriental Christology, those would be my positions.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, just quickly though, do you think that do you

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<v Speaker 7>think that Oriental orthodox aremnophystes?

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with the councils that we hold to, which

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<v Speaker 2>do say that your theology would end up in that

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<v Speaker 2>even if you disagree that your president confession holds up.

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<v Speaker 10>Okay.

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<v Speaker 7>So the reason I'm asking that is because you just said,

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<v Speaker 7>for example, that Orthodoxy focuses more on mysticism as opposed

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<v Speaker 7>to reason when it comes to the.

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<v Speaker 2>Divine and say that that's what he said.

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<v Speaker 7>Oh okay, all right, find them.

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<v Speaker 3>Brenda, you get what I mean?

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<v Speaker 10>Man?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, what's going on? Ja dude? Hey?

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<v Speaker 4>Man? Two questions?

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<v Speaker 13>First question, when are you going to have that Tom

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<v Speaker 13>Coom single come out on iTunes? So I can I

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<v Speaker 13>can listen to a while I'm working?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess you're downloaded. Now nobody seems to like

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<v Speaker 2>that song. That's my least popular cringe course song.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'm glad you're all right.

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<v Speaker 4>Second question, I kind of went down a rabbit hole.

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<v Speaker 13>So I've always been raised as a Christian Southern Baptist,

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<v Speaker 13>kind of got out of the church, dabbled in things

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<v Speaker 13>here and there with like listening to stuff you do.

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<v Speaker 13>But I went down a rabbit hole about Israel not

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<v Speaker 13>being like, well, the Jews in Israel not being God's

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<v Speaker 13>chosen any longer because they gave that up when they

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<v Speaker 13>crucified Him and forsake him and denied the Kingdom of Heaven.

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<v Speaker 13>And the Christians are the new Israel.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's just said multiple times in New Testament Clarer's day.

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<v Speaker 13>Is that like the case is like, is that how

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<v Speaker 13>it's being twisted that we should like go along with

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<v Speaker 13>Israel because their.

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<v Speaker 2>God's chose what was called covenant theology. So people have

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<v Speaker 2>this idea that somehow the promise of the having it

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<v Speaker 2>to Abraham or to Moses was only in reference to

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<v Speaker 2>a historical nation of Israel, which that's one element of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you read Galatians three, it's very clear that

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<v Speaker 2>the seed capital s that fulfills the promise to Abraham

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<v Speaker 2>and Genesis twelve, fifteen, twenty two, and seventeen and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>two is the capital seed.

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<v Speaker 3>Messiah, he is the ma seed.

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<v Speaker 2>Excuse he is the seed, and then everyone that's in

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<v Speaker 2>him is by extension the seed. Romans four and Galatians

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<v Speaker 2>three argue this clear as day, which there should be

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<v Speaker 2>no debate about it. And the other point is that

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<v Speaker 2>the nation state of Israel is divorced in the New

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<v Speaker 2>Testament clear as day, citing texts like Hoseiah and the

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<v Speaker 2>Book of Revelation and Jesus's prophecies about the seventy eighty

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<v Speaker 2>destruction of the temple in the Book of Hebrews.

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<v Speaker 13>Okay, wow, I'm gonna go back and listen to that explanation.

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<v Speaker 13>But it just seems really strange, like I've been told

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<v Speaker 13>one thing and just follow along.

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<v Speaker 2>What well. Jeremiah thirty one, He says that this new

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<v Speaker 2>covenant will be unlike the Mosaic Covenant. So where is

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<v Speaker 2>this new covenant? What is this new covenant? Wherein the

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<v Speaker 2>law will be placed on everyone's heart, wherein the gentiles

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<v Speaker 2>will turn to the Messiah, There will be gentile priests,

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<v Speaker 2>there will be incense offered all throughout the world to God,

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<v Speaker 2>as according to Malachi one. All these prophecies, and when

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<v Speaker 2>Paul and Romans fifteen cites multiple places in the Psalms

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<v Speaker 2>where it predicts a gentile church, Paul says, that's the church.

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<v Speaker 2>The church is the fulfillment of those Messianic promises in

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<v Speaker 2>the Book of Psalms that talk about the gentiles worshiping

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<v Speaker 2>the God of Israel. So these are not in times

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<v Speaker 2>into the world predictions of a premillennial kingdom. They're the

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<v Speaker 2>church that was set up historically. And this is the

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<v Speaker 2>giant blind spot that all the Evangelicals and Protestants have.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't understand that the church is the kingdom, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's the Orthodox Church, the one in history that was

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<v Speaker 2>set up in the first century. It's not an end

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<v Speaker 2>times thing that is yet to come. He left, Donnie.

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<v Speaker 14>I'm mute, Donnie, I'm mute.

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<v Speaker 2>Donnie discerned. We're waiting on you, man, what's up? Go ahead?

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<v Speaker 10>Hello?

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<v Speaker 15>Hello, Hey, Sorry, I was having you a littleish.

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<v Speaker 10>I couldn't hear anything.

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<v Speaker 15>How's it going, Uh, Jay, very good to finally be

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<v Speaker 15>able to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 10>I know you had me blocked for a little while.

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<v Speaker 15>I wasn't really sure I had seen some of your stuff.

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<v Speaker 15>I like a lot of the stuff you say, but

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<v Speaker 15>I did have a couple of questions for you regarding

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<v Speaker 15>this topic. So I just for some background, I would

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<v Speaker 15>not consider myself a dispensationalist, a supporter of the government

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<v Speaker 15>or the nation of Israel in its apostates state, but

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<v Speaker 15>I definitely want to see get a feel for what

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<v Speaker 15>your view is about I guess the eschatological nature of

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<v Speaker 15>this topic. And the first question is, would you say

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<v Speaker 15>that Israel's blindness is temporary, that you know it's part

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<v Speaker 15>of God's plan for the gentiles? Like, would you say

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<v Speaker 15>that Israel's blindness is temporary?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's what Paul's teaching in Romans eleven.

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<v Speaker 2>And at some point whenever the schatological you know, in

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<v Speaker 2>times are Paul predicts a conversion of the Jews in

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<v Speaker 2>mass in some way.

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<v Speaker 10>Okay, okay, we would agree with that.

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<v Speaker 15>My next question would be, do you believe that it

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<v Speaker 15>was God's sovereignty that led to Israel scattering and that

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<v Speaker 15>you know and that this the regathering of the tribes

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<v Speaker 15>of Israel and Judah in nineteen forty eight, was part

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<v Speaker 15>of God's plan was under God's sovereignty.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, everything is under God's sovereignty. But whether that is

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily some fulfillment of biblical prophecies, I don't know about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that remains to be seen, depending upon what happens.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't think that there's any promise to a

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<v Speaker 2>secular nation state that is in some way a dual

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<v Speaker 2>covenant theology.

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<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I would definitely disagree and disavow with dual covenant theology.

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<v Speaker 15>I don't really know many people that actually hold to

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<v Speaker 15>dual Covenant that say that there's a separate covenant for Israel.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean a lot of dispensationalists do.

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<v Speaker 15>I would say, I would, Yeah, you're probably right. I

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<v Speaker 15>haven't really heard that set a lot the dual covenant theology.

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<v Speaker 15>Every every dispensationalist that I talked to, they say that

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<v Speaker 15>they reject that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean most, I mean the last two days

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<v Speaker 2>of debates that we've had with people, almost almost all

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<v Speaker 2>of them who come in here defending that position believe

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<v Speaker 2>that the Abrahamic Covenant is specifically still in force for

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<v Speaker 2>the Jews.

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<v Speaker 16>Okay, would you say that in the in the end times,

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<v Speaker 16>would you agree that the nations unite against the City

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<v Speaker 16>of Jerusalem before Christ returns to reigns.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, the New Testament city of Jerusalem is the church,

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<v Speaker 2>Paul makes that clear. Galatians four.

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<v Speaker 15>Are you talking about New Jerusalem? Are you talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>If that is the church in Galatians four, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a present reality, which is the Orthodox Church?

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<v Speaker 10>Okay?

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<v Speaker 15>So you wouldn't make a distinction between the millennial kingdom

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<v Speaker 15>and Revelation twenty and the eternal state in New Jerusalem

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<v Speaker 15>and twenty one.

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<v Speaker 3>Now the Church is the kingdom, as Jesus says at

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<v Speaker 3>Matthew sixteen.

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<v Speaker 15>So you have a more of a millennialist view on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Where my favor post millennialism, but many Orthodox are also omil.

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<v Speaker 15>Okay, So you would say that Christ is currently reigning

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<v Speaker 15>right now in the ultimate sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't think anybody believes. Anybody believes in the

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate sense because the resurrection and the Great White Throne

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<v Speaker 2>judgment haven't happened. But if you look at every reference

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<v Speaker 2>in the New Testament to Psalm one ten instead of

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<v Speaker 2>my right hand until it make your.

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<v Speaker 3>Enemies your footstool, what do you think that's a reference to.

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<v Speaker 15>The Millennial king The millennial kingdom would be no.

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<v Speaker 2>No time in the New Testament is referenced in regard

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<v Speaker 2>to some specific redemptive historical event in the New Testament,

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<v Speaker 2>which one?

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<v Speaker 10>What was the question?

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<v Speaker 2>Every time Psalm one ten is cited in the New Testament,

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<v Speaker 2>for the most part, sit in my right hand until

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<v Speaker 2>I make your enemies your foot stool, it's a reference.

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<v Speaker 15>Sorry, sorry, yes, yes, yes, yes, right hand?

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<v Speaker 10>So so so when so?

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<v Speaker 2>When? So?

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<v Speaker 10>When God? So?

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<v Speaker 15>When God makes the the world Jesus footstool.

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<v Speaker 10>You don't believe that that's I'm asking.

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<v Speaker 3>You a question. You're not listening. I'm not trying to

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<v Speaker 3>me mean.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, every time that Psalm one ten in the

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<v Speaker 2>New Testament is cited, when it's when the New Testament

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<v Speaker 2>writers cite that psalm about sit in my right hand

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<v Speaker 2>till I make your enemies your footstool, they reference it

430
00:28:51.240 --> 00:29:00.359
<v Speaker 2>in regard to a specific New Testament event. It's the ascension, right,

431
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.039
<v Speaker 2>The ascension happened in the Book of Acts. Okay, so

432
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.799
<v Speaker 2>the ascension is when he begins to reign. That's why

433
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.359
<v Speaker 2>Daniel seven is a prophecy of his ascension. Sit at

434
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>my right hand, the Father's right hand in heaven. And

435
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Daniel seven, he's given authority over all tribes, songs, and nations.

436
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.920
<v Speaker 2>In the Book of Revelation when John sees into Revelation

437
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.480
<v Speaker 2>in the first four or five, when he sees the

438
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Lamb in heaven, that's when the Lamb is given authority

439
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:28.279
<v Speaker 2>over all tribes, tongues.

440
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 3>And nations. That's the ascension. It's not the other world.

441
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:32.319
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I agree.

442
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:36.119
<v Speaker 15>I agree that Christ is reigning in an already sense,

443
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.599
<v Speaker 15>but there's also a not yet sense where she will reign.

444
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 2>That's we agree with that.

445
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:40.759
<v Speaker 10>Yeah. Yeah.

446
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 2>But the already that is the Kingdom, is the Church.

447
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:47.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's why Matthew sixteen he says to Peter, you

448
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.960
<v Speaker 2>are the rock upon which I will build my church,

449
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>and he says, I will give you the keys to

450
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:55.839
<v Speaker 2>the kingdom. Yeah, equating the Church to the kingdom.

451
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.640
<v Speaker 10>So it's not y, Yeah, I would I would agree

452
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:00.400
<v Speaker 10>that because.

453
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.680
<v Speaker 15>Well, I would say that the body of believers, as

454
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.359
<v Speaker 15>Christ price is the head and the body of believers

455
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 15>and make up obviously his body.

456
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Christ have a visible body or does he have an

457
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:12.640
<v Speaker 3>invisible body?

458
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:17.839
<v Speaker 15>Does Christ have a visible body or an invisible body? Yeah, sir,

459
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.839
<v Speaker 15>it's a spiritual it's a it's spiritual in the already

460
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:27.799
<v Speaker 15>sense where the body of believing believing Christians make our.

461
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.160
<v Speaker 3>Own body, his actual body when he's walking.

462
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:35.640
<v Speaker 15>Around his body, when he was walking around. Yeah, I

463
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 15>mean he he was, he was, he.

464
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.400
<v Speaker 10>Was yes, right, right, Okay, is it one?

465
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Is it one?

466
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:43.640
<v Speaker 10>Is it one?

467
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

468
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, we are one with the body like That's why

469
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.559
<v Speaker 15>when you know, when when Jesus asked Aul, you're.

470
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Missing my point though I'm saying. What I'm pointing out

471
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 2>is that the singular visible structure of the Body of

472
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:03.279
<v Speaker 2>Christ is identical to the historical singular visible.

473
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Structure of the body of the Body of Christ.

474
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:10.039
<v Speaker 2>That's why Paul equates the church to the continuation of

475
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.319
<v Speaker 2>the incarnation and the body. He says in First Corinthians.

476
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Is Christ divided? He says in Ephesians. There's one Lord,

477
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 2>one body, one faith, one baptism. So the Body of Christ,

478
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 2>the Church cannot be divided. Therefore it is not existing

479
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:28.920
<v Speaker 2>amongst thirty thousand different sects.

480
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:32.279
<v Speaker 15>I think the thirty thousand numbers a bit exaggerated. I

481
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.839
<v Speaker 15>think Mike Winger did a did a video about that

482
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:38.519
<v Speaker 15>where that's based off of a lot of Okay, Well.

483
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:40.799
<v Speaker 3>Whether it's five thousand or thirty thousand doesn't matter.

484
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:44.279
<v Speaker 15>Well, I would say I would say that, you know,

485
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.200
<v Speaker 15>so would you say that only the Orthodox people who

486
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.920
<v Speaker 15>are members of the Orthodox Church would inherit the Kingdom

487
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 15>of God? Yes, I would really disagree with you there,

488
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.640
<v Speaker 15>But that's okay, that's not really the direction.

489
00:31:57.799 --> 00:31:59.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, how many bodies does Christ have?

490
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.480
<v Speaker 10>Though body?

491
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.240
<v Speaker 15>But that doesn't mean that that that body is divided

492
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.319
<v Speaker 15>among you know, denominations.

493
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:07.160
<v Speaker 10>Right, I mean.

494
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:09.920
<v Speaker 2>You have to believe it is.

495
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.319
<v Speaker 15>Well, it's it's about faith in Christ, right, you know,

496
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 15>it's about it's.

497
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:18.519
<v Speaker 3>About they have faith in Christ. But they're not trinitarian count.

498
00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:23.799
<v Speaker 10>Well, of course not. But that's not measure.

499
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:25.400
<v Speaker 2>What's the measure for heresy?

500
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.000
<v Speaker 15>The measure for heresy would be something that contradicts the

501
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.799
<v Speaker 15>clear teachings of scripture, like I would consider you know,

502
00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:36.279
<v Speaker 15>I would consider full I would consider full preterism of heresy.

503
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:38.880
<v Speaker 15>Because they say that Christ already returned. I would say

504
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.039
<v Speaker 15>that there's no normal say that denial of the Trinity

505
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 15>is a heresy because again it's not.

506
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:49.799
<v Speaker 2>Where the doctor formulated the Doctor of the Trinity.

507
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 15>Who formulated it I think it's less about who formulated it.

508
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:53.400
<v Speaker 15>We can read it into the text. We can even

509
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 15>read it in the Old Testament. We could see the

510
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 15>Trinity foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

511
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.359
<v Speaker 2>We don't need you're missing point. I'm talking about the

512
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Second Ecumenical Council where they dogmatize the Doctor in the Trinity.

513
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:05.519
<v Speaker 15>And I believe the Holy Spirit was working through that,

514
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.279
<v Speaker 15>But that doesn't mean that they're now the You know, so.

515
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>The Holy Spirit was working through them, but they were wrong.

516
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.640
<v Speaker 15>The Holy Spirit works through a lot of people in error,

517
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.519
<v Speaker 15>don't you know. We're we're still flawed, right, We're not.

518
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:18.720
<v Speaker 15>We're not We're not.

519
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Was it wrong when the church was determined?

520
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 3>The canon.

521
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.680
<v Speaker 15>Was determining the canon? No I I I agree with

522
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:27.200
<v Speaker 15>the canon.

523
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:29.839
<v Speaker 2>But what I'm saying was the Holy Spirit wrong? Was

524
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:31.319
<v Speaker 2>it was to error?

525
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 15>Why would the Holy Spirit be liable to error?

526
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:35.720
<v Speaker 3>It's so the church is infallible.

527
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:38.960
<v Speaker 10>No, I think you're missing my point.

528
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:41.359
<v Speaker 3>When determined?

529
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.000
<v Speaker 15>The point is it's less about.

530
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.799
<v Speaker 3>When was the canon determined?

531
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:46.680
<v Speaker 10>Here's my point.

532
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 2>So you're not going to answer this question because it

533
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:51.119
<v Speaker 2>would refew you. When is the Canada Scripture determined?

534
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.559
<v Speaker 15>I feel like you're trying to put me in these boxes,

535
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:55.319
<v Speaker 15>and I just want to I just want because.

536
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.759
<v Speaker 2>It's going to refute your presupposition.

537
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:01.079
<v Speaker 10>No, I think besition. Listen, I'm not a good not.

538
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.920
<v Speaker 2>A debate tactic. It's the end of Protestantism.

539
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:05.079
<v Speaker 10>Okay.

540
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:07.680
<v Speaker 3>Where was the canondi scripture.

541
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:11.239
<v Speaker 15>Determined in three in three hundred, right.

542
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Three hundred?

543
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 10>The canon?

544
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:14.320
<v Speaker 2>What church?

545
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:15.079
<v Speaker 3>What church?

546
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Father?

547
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.159
<v Speaker 3>Council in the year three hundred determined the candas scripture.

548
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:21.559
<v Speaker 10>The canon of scripture a council of I see it

549
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:22.079
<v Speaker 10>wasn't that.

550
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you don't even know when nice it was. It's

551
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.880
<v Speaker 2>three twenty five, yeah, around three hundred. And it didn't

552
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it didn't determine the cannon. So you don't have anything

553
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:30.880
<v Speaker 2>any knowledge at the top.

554
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:33.559
<v Speaker 10>Listen. My point is this, don't we don't know.

555
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:35.199
<v Speaker 3>You don't have any knowledge of the topic.

556
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.159
<v Speaker 10>I I know about the council that I see it.

557
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:37.800
<v Speaker 10>I knew that.

558
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, you didn't even know the date of the canon.

559
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:41.079
<v Speaker 2>You didn't even know when it was.

560
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 15>I said around three hundred. I didn't say three hundred exactly.

561
00:34:46.480 --> 00:35:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, next up, Honey Badger, I'm mute, honeyback

562
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>on mute.

563
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:11.039
<v Speaker 17>I'm sorry.

564
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:13.639
<v Speaker 18>I didn't realize you called on me, you know. So

565
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.760
<v Speaker 18>this is a great conversation. But at the same time,

566
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.400
<v Speaker 18>I really don't like these debates so much because I

567
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.239
<v Speaker 18>believe that we should try to love people into the

568
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.079
<v Speaker 18>fullness of faith.

569
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.000
<v Speaker 17>So just lay it there.

570
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.679
<v Speaker 18>And also, like when I kind of like when I

571
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.639
<v Speaker 18>walked in, you know, and I saw the title evangelical,

572
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:35.159
<v Speaker 18>why do you.

573
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Think the debate is contrary to love?

574
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.239
<v Speaker 18>When Paul apa, No, no, no, no, no, that's a that's a

575
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:42.280
<v Speaker 18>very good point that you're right.

576
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.079
<v Speaker 2>So as a woman, you're just simply saying that you

577
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:46.480
<v Speaker 2>don't get good feelings from it.

578
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.119
<v Speaker 18>So no, no, no, no, no, sir, that that's that's

579
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.440
<v Speaker 18>not what I mean at all. No, what I mean

580
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.360
<v Speaker 18>is is that we like, we're here to love people

581
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.840
<v Speaker 18>into the fullness of truth, you know what I mean.

582
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.079
<v Speaker 2>And so in other words, like, it's nothing contrary to

583
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:02.039
<v Speaker 2>that in debating.

584
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 3>So are you just here at home police, or do

585
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:05.800
<v Speaker 3>you have an argument?

586
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.840
<v Speaker 17>No, I'm not trying to tone police at all.

587
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 3>You're literally tone police. What do you think that is?

588
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:11.960
<v Speaker 19>No?

589
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.000
<v Speaker 17>I actually like, please please hear what I'm saying.

590
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.920
<v Speaker 18>Okay, So, first of all, you know, like where I

591
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:21.239
<v Speaker 18>walked in, you know, you were kind of unpacking the

592
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:25.840
<v Speaker 18>difference between Jews and Christians in general, right like that

593
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 18>that was what I heard. And so first and foremost

594
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:31.960
<v Speaker 18>I would say, if we can get onto a foundational

595
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.440
<v Speaker 18>moral principle or like a foundational Christian principle, is that

596
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.199
<v Speaker 18>you know, the Jews were God's chosen people, but they

597
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.199
<v Speaker 18>still had a choice moving forward.

598
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.880
<v Speaker 4>After Jesus died.

599
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 17>Can we start there like you died and resurrected?

600
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.119
<v Speaker 18>In other words, so in other words, there is no

601
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:54.880
<v Speaker 18>akin to Christianity, you know, like in terms of any

602
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.800
<v Speaker 18>you know, like any Ebromic religion.

603
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.519
<v Speaker 2>That's all infest to be a Catholic. But the Catholic

604
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Church has changed that position. So which one?

605
00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:03.719
<v Speaker 20>You know?

606
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.480
<v Speaker 17>Actually they have not, they have not at.

607
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:10.920
<v Speaker 2>All they have. Have you read? You're going to keep interrupting.

608
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 2>This is why you don't want to debate. Have you read?

609
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.320
<v Speaker 3>No, sir?

610
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 17>Yes I have. But but please let me.

611
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 2>About the Jews.

612
00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:19.960
<v Speaker 17>I'm trying to relate to you.

613
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:22.639
<v Speaker 3>I say, a debate stream and you're saying things that

614
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:23.119
<v Speaker 3>are wrong.

615
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.960
<v Speaker 2>What does say about the Jews?

616
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:31.039
<v Speaker 4>Okay, say about.

617
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 17>You, sir? If I can say what and I'll leave this.

618
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.599
<v Speaker 2>I will claim to have read it.

619
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.800
<v Speaker 3>I will leave this, but you haven't read it.

620
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:42.519
<v Speaker 17>I will leave this. I will okay, I will leave

621
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:43.000
<v Speaker 17>this with you.

622
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.599
<v Speaker 18>I try to understand people on their terms and then

623
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:47.679
<v Speaker 18>give my best argument.

624
00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 21>I was trying to you didn't have an argument, you

625
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:54.679
<v Speaker 21>claim no, I was trying to make a clown of yourself, Like.

626
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:56.960
<v Speaker 18>I'm sorry, Like if you're not going to listen to

627
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:58.559
<v Speaker 18>anything I say, I'm just saying.

628
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.280
<v Speaker 2>You're a drunk wine mom. I'm trying to argue that you.

629
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:03.039
<v Speaker 10>Are.

630
00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:04.559
<v Speaker 17>You guys hearing this right now?

631
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Did you read at.

632
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:08.800
<v Speaker 17>Hearing this right now? I'm not like serious.

633
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Everybody's laughing at you.

634
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:10.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you can insult me.

635
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.400
<v Speaker 18>All you want to stand, you on your terms, and

636
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:16.760
<v Speaker 18>all you have chosen to do is insult me.

637
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 3>You can't debate. Why are you debating?

638
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.639
<v Speaker 17>Well, you know what, you know what? God bless you, sir.

639
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:25.519
<v Speaker 17>I thought we would have a good content and I

640
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:26.519
<v Speaker 17>asked you a question.

641
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 18>But no you can't because you won't let me ask

642
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:30.800
<v Speaker 18>you a question or even allow me to get to

643
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.639
<v Speaker 18>know you. You're not even on the time and where

644
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.920
<v Speaker 18>you're coming from and appreciate you where you're coming.

645
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:43.039
<v Speaker 17>From and then and then kind of understand by your

646
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:43.800
<v Speaker 17>knowledge and wisdom.

647
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:44.559
<v Speaker 10>That's it. That's it.

648
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 21>I'm sorry that sort of back to the phronsie Boss Jay,

649
00:38:49.079 --> 00:39:08.280
<v Speaker 21>you know what, get out of here, Samson, I'm mute.

650
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Hello, Yes, all right.

651
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:20.280
<v Speaker 22>So if your position is that the Orthodox Church is

652
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.760
<v Speaker 22>the only church, is it possible that there are people

653
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.320
<v Speaker 22>in the church who are unsaved.

654
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's a mixed multitude, as the parables say.

655
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.280
<v Speaker 22>Okay, so there are it is possible to be in

656
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 22>the body of Christ and be unsaved.

657
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can be in the visible uh member, you

658
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.400
<v Speaker 2>can be a visible participant in grace and lose that grace.

659
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.599
<v Speaker 2>So the aschatological reality will will remove all of the

660
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.480
<v Speaker 2>people who don't have the vestiments. It's like the parable

661
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:59.519
<v Speaker 2>of the the marriage Peace, where Jesus removes all those

662
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:00.760
<v Speaker 2>who do not have the garment.

663
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.880
<v Speaker 22>Okay, So so you're not in the church if you're

664
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:05.760
<v Speaker 22>not saved.

665
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I answered your question. This is too stupid.

666
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 22>Well no, I just I justin.

667
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.360
<v Speaker 3>He's the dude that wanted to come to debate.

668
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Where do you go.

669
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Tectonic la Hello.

670
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:47.119
<v Speaker 23>Yeah, yeah, I have a neighbor who is a secular.

671
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Guy, But.

672
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:51.480
<v Speaker 10>How do I say this?

673
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:56.480
<v Speaker 23>When that thing in October happened in twenty twenty three,

674
00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:00.440
<v Speaker 23>he was quite inflamed, and he's like a bench Shapiro

675
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 23>Jordan Peterson.

676
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 3>Guy, where does that come from?

677
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:05.519
<v Speaker 2>He's not even Christian.

678
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:07.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what you're talking about.

679
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:11.960
<v Speaker 2>October of twenty twenty three, yeah, October seventh.

680
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, yeah.

681
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.480
<v Speaker 23>So you know, like, if you're a Christian, you know

682
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:19.519
<v Speaker 23>it could be understandable that you could fall into the

683
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:21.320
<v Speaker 23>trap of Christian Zionism.

684
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:22.760
<v Speaker 4>But he's secular.

685
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 2>What is this?

686
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.800
<v Speaker 10>He was, like I said, he was very inflamed when

687
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:27.320
<v Speaker 10>it happened.

688
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what is it?

689
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:30.800
<v Speaker 3>What's the.

690
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Well? I don't know what your what their point is? Man?

691
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.320
<v Speaker 3>Dan, what's up?

692
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 19>I'm mean, yeah, I.

693
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.280
<v Speaker 11>Think at all the Orthodox churches are the same, like

694
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.440
<v Speaker 11>Coptic or Ethiopian Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox?

695
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Is it all?

696
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 3>No, they're not. No, No, they're not.

697
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's just wondering, so what, like, what's your position

698
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:22.760
<v Speaker 2>on that? Is there one that's theologically wrong or Rememberical

699
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Orthodox Catholic Church there's only one of those? Okay that

700
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:28.760
<v Speaker 2>that was my question.

701
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:49.000
<v Speaker 24>Shown I can't hear anything I'm gonna leave and rejoin

702
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:49.840
<v Speaker 24>if anybody.

703
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:50.519
<v Speaker 3>You can't hear me.

704
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:55.039
<v Speaker 25>Oh, no, I can hear it now, weird, Go ahead. Yeah,

705
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 25>Like I said last time, I'm a big fan. I

706
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.800
<v Speaker 25>am a big fan of yours. But I'm not as

707
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.639
<v Speaker 25>well studied as you and most of the people talking here,

708
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:05.079
<v Speaker 25>so you can correct me here.

709
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:08.159
<v Speaker 2>But I have questions about.

710
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.159
<v Speaker 25>The links between Vatican to John Paul the Second and

711
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.079
<v Speaker 25>then the Cold War. You have to in my understanding.

712
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.760
<v Speaker 25>I know, I know what you do, but that's why

713
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:26.280
<v Speaker 25>I'm asking you. But I would in my understanding of things,

714
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:29.719
<v Speaker 25>not being informed otherwise by you, which you will inform

715
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.199
<v Speaker 25>me now of. But otherwise I would understand it to

716
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:36.400
<v Speaker 25>be a part of the Cold War. I would understand

717
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:39.079
<v Speaker 25>that John Paul the Second was a part of the

718
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.920
<v Speaker 25>deep state in so many ways. Or the year of Letter,

719
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.400
<v Speaker 25>the years of Letter or whatever, and the Italians speak,

720
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:52.199
<v Speaker 25>and there is a reason for why we let that

721
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:53.880
<v Speaker 25>non Italian guy in.

722
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:02.679
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise. Yeah, I've done talk to this. What about it? Oh,

723
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:07.079
<v Speaker 2>I've never heard those parts of it, So I'm sorry,

724
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.480
<v Speaker 2>that's funny. I don't to apologize. I'm just telling you that. Yeah,

725
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:12.039
<v Speaker 2>we're I'm familiar with it. The audience probably isn't familiar

726
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:16.400
<v Speaker 2>with that. But anything else could you speak about?

727
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:16.559
<v Speaker 19>What?

728
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Why? Why?

729
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:23.639
<v Speaker 25>We obviously was the geopolitical strategic position to it.

730
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.639
<v Speaker 2>And went off has an entire eight hundred page book

731
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:31.039
<v Speaker 2>on it called Timeline Magazine, John Courtney Murray and the

732
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.000
<v Speaker 2>American Proposition. It's about the doctrinal warfare.

733
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:37.679
<v Speaker 3>Program is a book called the Doctrinal war.

734
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:41.280
<v Speaker 26>The book is called what. I just listed it as

735
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:50.280
<v Speaker 26>what's up? Justin Hello, Yeah, what's okay?

736
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:50.559
<v Speaker 2>Sorry?

737
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:51.559
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know how to immute.

738
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:55.800
<v Speaker 27>This is my first basis, Like questions, does the Bible

739
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:58.400
<v Speaker 27>talk mentioned h denominations?

740
00:44:58.480 --> 00:44:58.639
<v Speaker 3>You know?

741
00:44:58.719 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 2>And where did that come from?

742
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:00.079
<v Speaker 3>Do you know?

743
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:03.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know too much about it? Like why is one?

744
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Why is Catholic?

745
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:06.519
<v Speaker 27>Protestant? Why are these?

746
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Why is Christianity divided?

747
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.519
<v Speaker 3>So why isn't it just it's not divided?

748
00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:14.719
<v Speaker 2>The only authentic Christianity is the Orthodox Church because it's

749
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 2>the same theology and teaching of the first thousand years

750
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:21.239
<v Speaker 2>of Christianity. So where are the other ones come from?

751
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Are they all like Satanic? I mean well, I mean

752
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:26.559
<v Speaker 2>the Roman Catholic Church split from the Orthodox Church in

753
00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:29.719
<v Speaker 2>ten fifty four and all those crazy groups split from

754
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.719
<v Speaker 2>the Roman Catholic Church, Protestant split, so it just kind

755
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:35.199
<v Speaker 2>of goes.

756
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:39.639
<v Speaker 27>From there because we got Lutheran all these So I

757
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:42.119
<v Speaker 27>was raised in the Worldwide Church. You God, I don't

758
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 27>know if you're familiar with that one, but it's basically like.

759
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.599
<v Speaker 3>They used to be anti Trinitarian. They believed in.

760
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Garner Ted Armstrong's anti Trinitarian British Israelite theory.

761
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah it's a cult. Yeah, I think so too.

762
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:57.719
<v Speaker 27>So yeah, we weren't allowed to celebrate holidays, and we

763
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.639
<v Speaker 27>couldn't eat pork and all this Old Testament and it's

764
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.320
<v Speaker 27>just like, as I got older, I just felt like

765
00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.559
<v Speaker 27>this doesn't make any sense, right. Plus my dad's a

766
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.760
<v Speaker 27>preacher in that and beat the shit out of us

767
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:09.639
<v Speaker 27>and my mom and everything else, and so I kind

768
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:11.599
<v Speaker 27>of shied away from it.

769
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:12.280
<v Speaker 10>But it was like.

770
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.000
<v Speaker 27>I was just always wondering how it got so fractured,

771
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.719
<v Speaker 27>and how do you think we could just bring it

772
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:20.360
<v Speaker 27>back together to we just fucking get along, because if

773
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.519
<v Speaker 27>we don't learn to get along all right?

774
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:26.840
<v Speaker 2>So again again, well, like I said, the Orthodox Church

775
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:31.079
<v Speaker 2>is the true church, So there is no like creating

776
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:34.199
<v Speaker 2>a new superchurch that blends all the churches to get along.

777
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Like people have to come to the ORTHORX church. That's

778
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:44.119
<v Speaker 2>the only way out. Barrabas, Oh my gosh, sure we

779
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:48.199
<v Speaker 2>go another judios in heretic? What's up?

780
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.280
<v Speaker 3>Its literally names of Barabbas? Are you there?

781
00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:59.199
<v Speaker 2>We can't hear you.

782
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:19.559
<v Speaker 3>Can here? You did, Samuel, I'm you.

783
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 2>I love Jada. Are you doing.

784
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:23.000
<v Speaker 28>How's everything?

785
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:25.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

786
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:27.280
<v Speaker 28>Everything as well? I'm gonna sure if you were calling me.

787
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:31.039
<v Speaker 28>We had a fascinating discussion about your your epistemic foundation,

788
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:33.599
<v Speaker 28>I think, with you and father and a nice about

789
00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:34.440
<v Speaker 28>two three months ago.

790
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:38.199
<v Speaker 3>I begarly remember that.

791
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.400
<v Speaker 28>Yeah, yeah, indeed, I had one to ask, what is

792
00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 28>your position on natural theology? Do you reject in totality?

793
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:48.760
<v Speaker 28>Do you believe they are epistemically deducible truths they are

794
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:49.880
<v Speaker 28>embedded with in reality?

795
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:54.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you could go watch the Trent Horn debate

796
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:57.280
<v Speaker 2>for my views on that. I don't have the energy

797
00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.960
<v Speaker 2>right now to stay at all those points in that argument.

798
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:04.239
<v Speaker 3>Okay, sure, but no I don't believe in natural theology.

799
00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, sure.

800
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:11.039
<v Speaker 28>I want to ask what would be your definition, or

801
00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:14.760
<v Speaker 28>at least, how would you differentiate between properly basic or

802
00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:15.719
<v Speaker 28>non basic belief.

803
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't think there's a lot of debate about

804
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.960
<v Speaker 2>those positions. They, I mean, people who are foundationalists kind

805
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.800
<v Speaker 2>of accept the common idea as to what properly basic,

806
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.280
<v Speaker 2>proper basicality is. They think that there's some form of

807
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.880
<v Speaker 2>self evidence. But since I don't believe in that, what

808
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:40.679
<v Speaker 2>does it matter? What how I would define them?

809
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:45.519
<v Speaker 28>Okay, I had just been mildly curious. I reviewed that debate,

810
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:46.360
<v Speaker 28>and thanks for having me.

811
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm not trying to be rude.

812
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.119
<v Speaker 2>It's just I don't like, I don't have the energy

813
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:53.119
<v Speaker 2>to go into like no, it's reversing all the that

814
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.320
<v Speaker 2>type of stuff when it's not really the topic tonight.

815
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:04.760
<v Speaker 3>Mean, you got on you.

816
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Hello.

817
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:11.079
<v Speaker 29>So I just had a Unitarian tell me that Christ

818
00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:13.039
<v Speaker 29>says that the Father is greater than him. How do

819
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:13.960
<v Speaker 29>you respond to that?

820
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean we responded to that probably five hundred

821
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.039
<v Speaker 2>times in all the Muslim debates and interactions that you

822
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.639
<v Speaker 2>can find online. Something can be greater in different types,

823
00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:28.920
<v Speaker 2>in different senses. So Christ's father, God, the Father is

824
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.280
<v Speaker 2>greater in role because the Father is the found cause

825
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:33.840
<v Speaker 2>and source within the Godhead.

826
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.440
<v Speaker 3>He is greater in that sense.

827
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:38.760
<v Speaker 2>But he's not greater in a metaphysical sense, just like

828
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:41.719
<v Speaker 2>a father is a cause of his son, but that

829
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that his son has any more or less

830
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:46.920
<v Speaker 2>human nature than his father. So just as a son

831
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:52.559
<v Speaker 2>can be subordinate to and obey his father, it doesn't

832
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:56.280
<v Speaker 2>follow that the son therefore is ontologically or metaphysically less

833
00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:59.400
<v Speaker 2>than his father. So all anti Trinitarian arguments hinge on

834
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.280
<v Speaker 2>greater necessarily being some metaphysical claim.

835
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:06.639
<v Speaker 29>That makes perfect sense.

836
00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Nina, you have to do you?

837
00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:26.719
<v Speaker 30>Did you call on me?

838
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:29.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, ma'am, what's up?

839
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:30.360
<v Speaker 10>Thank you?

840
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:33.559
<v Speaker 30>Hi Jay, I have two questions for you. My first

841
00:50:33.639 --> 00:50:36.920
<v Speaker 30>question is do you believe that Catholics are heretics? And

842
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.119
<v Speaker 30>I'll listen to your response. And my second question is

843
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:42.760
<v Speaker 30>do you believe that there will ever be a possibility

844
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 30>of union between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern

845
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:46.519
<v Speaker 30>Orthodox Churches?

846
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:47.239
<v Speaker 10>Thank you.

847
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:54.679
<v Speaker 2>I believe that Catholicism is a heterodox religion and profession.

848
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:59.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a parachurch, Paris Synagogue. It does not have the

849
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.639
<v Speaker 2>race that it pretends to have. But I don't make

850
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:05.719
<v Speaker 2>judgments on every individual Catholic because we're not told people's

851
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.719
<v Speaker 2>individual salvation or destiny. But we can judge in the

852
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:14.199
<v Speaker 2>public sphere a confession of some entity like the Catholic

853
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:21.519
<v Speaker 2>Church same way I would say a Protestant profession as heterodox.

854
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:26.320
<v Speaker 30>Okay. And secondly, what is your opinion on the hopeful

855
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:30.719
<v Speaker 30>reunion and reconciliation between the two as John Paul the

856
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:33.880
<v Speaker 30>second said, the Eastern and Western lungs of the church.

857
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it doesn't make any sense because the

858
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Eastern Catholic Church, Eastern Catholics of the Uniates, do not

859
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:49.719
<v Speaker 2>profess many ecumenical councils that the Roman Church says to

860
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:54.679
<v Speaker 2>be dogmatic. And yet the Roman Church has accepted all

861
00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:59.880
<v Speaker 2>these people as saints and as the alert as even

862
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.400
<v Speaker 2>people who were died in schism like Gregory and Nerek

863
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.119
<v Speaker 2>who was an Armenian schismatic, like suddenly they're now saints

864
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.960
<v Speaker 2>when they died in schism And so these all prove

865
00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 2>to me that the Roman Caloity Church's confession and theology

866
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:18.320
<v Speaker 2>is contradictory and evolves. And know, the Orthodox Church could

867
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:22.679
<v Speaker 2>never accept some sort of mediating halfway position because we

868
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.000
<v Speaker 2>don't believe that the Orthodox Church ever lost the faith.

869
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:28.840
<v Speaker 30>Thank you very much for answering my questions. I would

870
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:30.760
<v Speaker 30>love to ask more questions in the future.

871
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:32.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, you can ask them now if you want.

872
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, everyone else has been pretty unruly, so I

873
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:41.239
<v Speaker 2>appreciate what are the questions.

874
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:47.280
<v Speaker 30>We have the same sacraments, correct, the Catholics and the Orthodox.

875
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean loosely speaking, we have the same loose

876
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:55.599
<v Speaker 2>number of them, right, but not necessarily the same views exactly.

877
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:57.480
<v Speaker 30>So I was going to ask you what your view

878
00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:00.360
<v Speaker 30>is of the necessity of the sacrament of reconciliation and

879
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:03.000
<v Speaker 30>confession before receiving the Euchrist.

880
00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean this is not a position that

881
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:09.639
<v Speaker 2>differs between Orthodox and Catholics.

882
00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:13.159
<v Speaker 30>Yes, okay, thank you. I thought that was true. Also,

883
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.159
<v Speaker 30>in terms of your marital sacrament, how would you view

884
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:25.639
<v Speaker 30>the overall theology that differentiates Orthodox from Catholics.

885
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Again, there are commonalities there because we do, loosely speaking,

886
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:35.119
<v Speaker 2>share the first thousand years of Christianity. But I think

887
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:41.039
<v Speaker 2>that eventually the Roman system, for example, began to detegrade

888
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:45.519
<v Speaker 2>marriage when they started forbidding married priests, which they always

889
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:51.159
<v Speaker 2>accepted until after Trollo. So after the Seventh Council, the

890
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:57.360
<v Speaker 2>West begins to forbid there to be married priests. We

891
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:01.000
<v Speaker 2>think it's a huge mistake that the West stopped giving

892
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:05.039
<v Speaker 2>infants communion anyway. But that's not about marriage. We would

893
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.639
<v Speaker 2>say that the Canons of Saint Basil, which the papacy

894
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:15.079
<v Speaker 2>for many centuries accepted, allow for the Orthodox position for remarriage.

895
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:18.320
<v Speaker 2>It's not a license to do it in any case.

896
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:22.199
<v Speaker 2>There's certain strictures and canonical limits to that. But we

897
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:24.920
<v Speaker 2>think the Roman position developed on that as well.

898
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.360
<v Speaker 30>I really appreciate your time, Thank you. I don't want

899
00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:30.800
<v Speaker 30>to take up all the time. I'll free someone else up.

900
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:33.719
<v Speaker 30>Go ahead, George, nice to meet you.

901
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:35.079
<v Speaker 4>Jay uh huh.

902
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:47.960
<v Speaker 3>Likewise, cut talk.

903
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Now. See that was a Roman caln woman who was

904
00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:56.960
<v Speaker 2>civil and a pleasure to talk to the half drunk,

905
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:06.119
<v Speaker 2>phronsial woman in here earlier was insane. Go ahead, katok, Hey,

906
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:06.639
<v Speaker 2>how you doing?

907
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:07.679
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

908
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Man? Do you think questions? So let me make it quick.

909
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:17.719
<v Speaker 31>Do you think Christianity will ever come to owning the

910
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:20.800
<v Speaker 31>leadership of a state like it's used to, or would

911
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:24.400
<v Speaker 31>it just remain confined to an institution called church.

912
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that the church ever owned a state,

913
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:32.239
<v Speaker 2>but I think that you can't have Orthodox Christian states.

914
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:33.280
<v Speaker 3>Again, sure.

915
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:35.920
<v Speaker 2>In what context?

916
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:40.400
<v Speaker 31>Not an ownership, but owning a state to lead a

917
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:41.239
<v Speaker 31>group of people.

918
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:44.119
<v Speaker 3>Again, I don't know what you mean owning a state.

919
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean again, have been confessional church state relationships for

920
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.639
<v Speaker 2>the majority of Christian history, so yes, there could be

921
00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Christian kingdoms again, but that doesn't mean that the Church

922
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:58.440
<v Speaker 2>owns the state. There are two if you are you

923
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:04.000
<v Speaker 2>familiar with the double headed business the symbol, no, it's

924
00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:07.159
<v Speaker 2>a classic symbol of Byzantium, and the two headed eagles

925
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:10.840
<v Speaker 2>symbolizes church and state working together in what we call

926
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:14.360
<v Speaker 2>symphonia or harmony. So that's the ideal setting, but it

927
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:26.199
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean the Church owns the state. Okay, thank you, yes, Chris.

928
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:34.840
<v Speaker 32>I mean, man, hey, guys, So I had a question

929
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.840
<v Speaker 32>dovetailing off that Roman Catholic lady who was really nice.

930
00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:41.960
<v Speaker 32>I grew up Roman Catholic. I'm no longer a Catholic,

931
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.000
<v Speaker 32>but I'm searching. I'm searching for an Orthodox order church.

932
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:46.960
<v Speaker 32>But either way, I want to know how to defeat

933
00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.639
<v Speaker 32>the Catholics on the concept of Mary and how they

934
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:55.559
<v Speaker 32>went off the rails with Christophany by not recognizing it

935
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:59.360
<v Speaker 32>being logos. So I just there's any points I could

936
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.079
<v Speaker 32>have to you know, have to fight Catholics back on.

937
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.519
<v Speaker 10>Why their Mary worship is just so bogus.

938
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:06.800
<v Speaker 2>It would just be helpful in some of my discourses.

939
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I did a video that's about forty minutes

940
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:14.119
<v Speaker 2>where I went through just the entire biblical argumentation for

941
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:18.559
<v Speaker 2>the Orthodox position on Mary. I think the Roman Catholic

942
00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:21.960
<v Speaker 2>position in the last several centuries has just gotten into

943
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:27.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of speculations and introduced new terms like co redemptrics,

944
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:30.320
<v Speaker 2>which can have a lot of things read into it.

945
00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:35.800
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know. I mean, I do think that

946
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.800
<v Speaker 2>they go crazy with it, but I think ultimately it's

947
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 2>because they end up departing from the Orthodox tradition on Mary.

948
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:46.280
<v Speaker 2>For example, they exempt her from the effects of original

949
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:50.599
<v Speaker 2>sin when the feast in the Orthodox Church, which even

950
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:53.159
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern Catholic celebrat, is called the feast of dormition

951
00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>of the version, which means that she died or she

952
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:58.320
<v Speaker 2>went to sleep. Well, if she died, then she was

953
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:03.440
<v Speaker 2>not free from the effects of Adam's fall. So I

954
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:05.719
<v Speaker 2>think that those are some examples of where the Roman

955
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:08.920
<v Speaker 2>position kind of goes crazy with it. And also you'll

956
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:12.599
<v Speaker 2>notice the Roman Catholic Church in the last several centuries,

957
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:16.559
<v Speaker 2>especially in the West, has deviated over into this extreme

958
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:23.000
<v Speaker 2>form of obsessing and relying on supposed Marian apparitions, many

959
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:25.639
<v Speaker 2>of which are totally pedadox.

960
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:28.360
<v Speaker 33>Yeah, and so yeah, I'm the feast of the door mission.

961
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:30.280
<v Speaker 33>I I've heard, I have heard some of your stuff

962
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:30.559
<v Speaker 33>on that.

963
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Right.

964
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:35.159
<v Speaker 33>So you're saying the Catholics extreme emphasis on her lack

965
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.800
<v Speaker 33>of sin or you know, her inability to sin, whereas

966
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:41.559
<v Speaker 33>I think the orcandox position is clearer that it makes

967
00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:45.039
<v Speaker 33>role Mary's roles the theotokos, the bearer of the divine logos,

968
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:45.760
<v Speaker 33>more compelling.

969
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Sure, go ahead, fodin.

970
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:54.360
<v Speaker 34>So I was like our father Russell here always says

971
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.880
<v Speaker 34>in Orthodox she she's not the great exception, she's the

972
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:02.800
<v Speaker 34>great example. And that just kind of summarizes it all,

973
00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:03.280
<v Speaker 34>doesn't it.

974
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:04.280
<v Speaker 2>I love it.

975
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:04.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

976
00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:07.639
<v Speaker 33>The Greek word, right, theo toko is a home of

977
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:09.320
<v Speaker 33>God or like I don't know if I'm on that

978
00:59:09.559 --> 00:59:11.960
<v Speaker 33>house in God, like the home the dwelling place of

979
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:15.199
<v Speaker 33>the womb. That's what the logos was incarnate, not her,

980
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:17.320
<v Speaker 33>not like it was just she was her womb was chosen.

981
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Now, but we do think that she was raised to

982
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:22.440
<v Speaker 2>be Queen of Heaven all of the forty five and

983
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:24.639
<v Speaker 2>Revelation twelve. So if you look at song forty five,

984
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:27.159
<v Speaker 2>you'll see the queen stands next to the king and

985
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:29.760
<v Speaker 2>the gold of Ofiir. We think that's Mary the Queen Mother.

986
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:33.159
<v Speaker 2>And that's a Messianic psalm. So that's an important thing

987
00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to understand that we do not have a low view

988
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.280
<v Speaker 2>of Mary, but we don't have the extreme view that

989
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholics.

990
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:41.760
<v Speaker 34>And we do believe she's sinless in terms of her

991
00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:51.360
<v Speaker 34>will and actions that even prior to the conception that

992
00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:55.159
<v Speaker 34>she said yes. And that's why I said, she's the

993
00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:58.079
<v Speaker 34>great example not.

994
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:02.079
<v Speaker 2>Uh what was the word I used?

995
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:03.440
<v Speaker 34>I can't remember the rule.

996
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.480
<v Speaker 33>Almost she's not it's not she's the example.

997
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:12.000
<v Speaker 34>Of Yeah, she's the great uh not exception, right, as

998
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:16.159
<v Speaker 34>if she was given almost a different type of nature

999
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:19.800
<v Speaker 34>that she couldn't sin. But she's one of us, and

1000
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:23.360
<v Speaker 34>she's the great example in which she said yes to

1001
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:30.360
<v Speaker 34>God and everything, all her actions and and will, and

1002
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:31.920
<v Speaker 34>so that that's a big difference.

1003
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:34.800
<v Speaker 33>Well, what doesn't sit right with me is so at

1004
01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:37.159
<v Speaker 33>my I was married in a Catholic church or nine

1005
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:39.800
<v Speaker 33>years ago, and the priest asked my wife and I

1006
01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:42.480
<v Speaker 33>if we wanted to have a statuette and a blessing

1007
01:00:42.679 --> 01:00:46.280
<v Speaker 33>to the Fatima, to our lady of Fatima. And I

1008
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:48.159
<v Speaker 33>had no idea what that was at the time. Obviously

1009
01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:50.239
<v Speaker 33>I learned a lot, but like so basically I had

1010
01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:53.119
<v Speaker 33>a prayer and something going on at my marriage ceremony

1011
01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:55.960
<v Speaker 33>for maryan apparition that I had no idea about. So

1012
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:58.199
<v Speaker 33>that's what like heightened my level to it. Looking back

1013
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:00.760
<v Speaker 33>at some of the stuff I participated in not being aware,

1014
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:02.159
<v Speaker 33>and I was just like, what the hell is this?

1015
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 3>So thank you guys. Yeah, good questions.

1016
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.760
<v Speaker 34>Jay, When you all the kind of fanaticism and fascination

1017
01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.719
<v Speaker 34>with all the apparitions began.

1018
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it's the eighteenth No, it's a no, no, No,

1019
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.920
<v Speaker 2>it's wharer than that. I mean, it's really began after

1020
01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the Schism, because you have a lot of Renaissance and

1021
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Medieval era monastics, especially the Franciscans, who start having in

1022
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.400
<v Speaker 2>this extreme emphasis on the visions. You've got a whole

1023
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:42.920
<v Speaker 2>bunch in France, You've got a whole bunch in Ireland

1024
01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:45.599
<v Speaker 2>over the last several centuries. So no, I don't think

1025
01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:48.400
<v Speaker 2>it's a I think it's a of several I mean

1026
01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:52.599
<v Speaker 2>even Michael Jones says that the prevalence of the apparitions

1027
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:54.360
<v Speaker 2>in the West the last five hundred years is a

1028
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.000
<v Speaker 2>sign of the feminization of the church in the West.

1029
01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Point Yeah, uh, who are we not going to here, Jacob?

1030
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:16.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm mute, Jacob, you gotta I mute?

1031
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Yoh Jay? What's up?

1032
01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:24.920
<v Speaker 35>Yes, sir, Hey, wanting to say that I listened to

1033
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.960
<v Speaker 35>your Sopranos analysis and I really enjoyed it, especially the impressions.

1034
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Thank you that that one seems to be a favorite

1035
01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:34.360
<v Speaker 2>of the movie TV buff.

1036
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:36.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, a lot of fun.

1037
01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:39.960
<v Speaker 35>Okay, So I would like, I'm a Protestant, would like

1038
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:43.159
<v Speaker 35>to offer a syllogism and then have you critique it.

1039
01:02:44.920 --> 01:02:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well we have a philosopher here too, so he

1040
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:54.280
<v Speaker 2>can help. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's you. Oh okay.

1041
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:57.840
<v Speaker 35>So it's having to do with predestination. So God knows

1042
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:08.639
<v Speaker 35>all things. Some people are damned inevitably, therefore God predestined.

1043
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The mistake is assuming that the knowledge of the thing,

1044
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.159
<v Speaker 2>knowing the thing makes God the cause of it. So

1045
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:22.719
<v Speaker 2>the analogy is missing the belief in secondary causes, which

1046
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.920
<v Speaker 2>is central to Christian theology. Okay, Also I.

1047
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:31.639
<v Speaker 34>Would say two, there's uh, there's a category category air

1048
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:36.920
<v Speaker 34>in terms of time and the applying chronological time in

1049
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:41.679
<v Speaker 34>human categories to God. So when we say pre right

1050
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:46.719
<v Speaker 34>or post, these are chronological categories that really don't exist

1051
01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:50.760
<v Speaker 34>for God. Sam Augustine says, He's an eternal now. So

1052
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:54.320
<v Speaker 34>this is ties to Jay's point. The reason why you

1053
01:03:54.320 --> 01:04:00.480
<v Speaker 34>can say predestines and he knows is because he seen

1054
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:04.199
<v Speaker 34>you do it in his now. There's no pre or

1055
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:07.639
<v Speaker 34>post for God the way it is for us. So

1056
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:12.480
<v Speaker 34>therefore he allows us to determine his knowledge because he's there,

1057
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:16.880
<v Speaker 34>present with us. And so notice it doesn't say predetermined,

1058
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.039
<v Speaker 34>it says predestined. That just means there's a destiny goal

1059
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:24.880
<v Speaker 34>which God knows, but it doesn't imply, as Jake pointed out,

1060
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:27.280
<v Speaker 34>the knowledge of that therefore is the cause of that.

1061
01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:30.639
<v Speaker 34>So within that there's a lot of kind of category

1062
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.000
<v Speaker 34>errors and confusions in terms of the of the terms

1063
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:34.559
<v Speaker 34>and concepts.

1064
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:39.119
<v Speaker 2>You're reason If I know that my neighbors are, you know,

1065
01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:41.480
<v Speaker 2>planning to go rob a bank, and then they go

1066
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:45.639
<v Speaker 2>and do it, my knowing of that does not make

1067
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:48.000
<v Speaker 2>me the cause of it. And that's just an analogy

1068
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>obviously that would make me, I guess, a collaborator. But

1069
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.840
<v Speaker 2>for the sake of the analogy, like, it doesn't mean

1070
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that I'm the direct cause because I have knowledge of it,

1071
01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:02.920
<v Speaker 2>or you know, or by the accident, by that measure anything, right,

1072
01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:07.400
<v Speaker 2>So it's the analogy confusedes like many Calvinist positions do,

1073
01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:10.719
<v Speaker 2>the knowing of a thing with me and the direct

1074
01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:13.239
<v Speaker 2>cause of the thing. So the decree of God is

1075
01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:18.960
<v Speaker 2>not the is not the source of every single event exactly.

1076
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:20.159
<v Speaker 2>I was just going to say.

1077
01:05:20.239 --> 01:05:24.400
<v Speaker 34>Also, notice that what's implicit in the premises and the

1078
01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:32.239
<v Speaker 34>kind of the framing of that syllogism is occasionally yeah,

1079
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:34.719
<v Speaker 34>so there's a lot of errors that are that are

1080
01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:35.639
<v Speaker 34>implicit within.

1081
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Why did you call it? He's saying that it could

1082
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:46.400
<v Speaker 2>lead to the Calvinist and Islamic position of occasionalism. Occasionalism

1083
01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:49.039
<v Speaker 2>is a position that there's no secondary causes and that

1084
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:52.320
<v Speaker 2>God is the direct cause of every single event. In fact,

1085
01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:56.840
<v Speaker 2>it's so extreme that not even one thing causes another thing.

1086
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.280
<v Speaker 2>So in other words, one billiard ball hitting another billiard

1087
01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:05.119
<v Speaker 2>ball literally has no direct connection or correlation. Occasionalists believe

1088
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:08.559
<v Speaker 2>that at every second God is destroying and recreating the world,

1089
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:14.199
<v Speaker 2>and that removes all forms of secondary causation. So, for example,

1090
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:18.159
<v Speaker 2>Jonathan Edwards, the famous Calvinist, was an occasionalist, and most

1091
01:06:18.199 --> 01:06:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Sunia Muslims are occasionalists. Also, Calvinism destroys Christology, and so

1092
01:06:32.239 --> 01:06:35.280
<v Speaker 2>if you become a hardcore Calvinist, you will not be

1093
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:38.360
<v Speaker 2>able to maintain the two wills, too energies and two

1094
01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:40.199
<v Speaker 2>natures in Christ and so you have to end up

1095
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:43.079
<v Speaker 2>in some kind of monothelitism or monoargism.

1096
01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:49.480
<v Speaker 34>Also knowledge, knowledge and truth, because if you think about

1097
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:54.880
<v Speaker 34>their arguments and their positions exactly the same as a

1098
01:06:54.920 --> 01:07:01.199
<v Speaker 34>determinist materialist, in which case, if everything simply caused by

1099
01:07:01.239 --> 01:07:07.599
<v Speaker 34>God in order to preserve his sovereignty, then there's nothing

1100
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:08.639
<v Speaker 34>true or false.

1101
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:10.559
<v Speaker 3>They're just events.

1102
01:07:11.239 --> 01:07:16.320
<v Speaker 34>And second of all, anybody that knows anything knows that

1103
01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:22.159
<v Speaker 34>even if you could get to truth, if you could

1104
01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:26.400
<v Speaker 34>establish something like that in a worldview, certainly being caused

1105
01:07:26.440 --> 01:07:28.760
<v Speaker 34>to have a true belief is not knowledge.

1106
01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I would say too, like in the in

1107
01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:35.239
<v Speaker 2>the Muslim position, because Allah is the best of deceivers.

1108
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:36.880
<v Speaker 2>One of the reasons that they would come to that

1109
01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:39.679
<v Speaker 2>conclusion is precisely that he's the direct cause of every

1110
01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:42.400
<v Speaker 2>evil and deception in the world, So that would make

1111
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:44.719
<v Speaker 2>him the best of deceivers, as the Kuran says.

1112
01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:50.440
<v Speaker 34>And furthermore, and this applies to the Calvinist model as well,

1113
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:53.159
<v Speaker 34>because even the elect can be given over to a

1114
01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:56.079
<v Speaker 34>reprobate mind. And if God's the cause of all things,

1115
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:59.960
<v Speaker 34>then he could cause you to believe that calvin Is

1116
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:02.159
<v Speaker 34>sounds true and it's in fact false, which is a

1117
01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:03.199
<v Speaker 34>defeat for Calvinists.

1118
01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:05.440
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty simple. But the theater for Islam too, and

1119
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:08.719
<v Speaker 2>people have actually argued in academic papers that that's a

1120
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:18.560
<v Speaker 2>way to refute Islam. G H was up, Hello, mister

1121
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:19.239
<v Speaker 2>direc can hear me?

1122
01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:20.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1123
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:23.359
<v Speaker 10>Okay, all right, so.

1124
01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.079
<v Speaker 36>The gentleman, a couple of callers ago talking about, you know,

1125
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:32.960
<v Speaker 36>the Christian state had something to do with that. I

1126
01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:39.079
<v Speaker 36>know that's not exactly the calling card, all right, So

1127
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.359
<v Speaker 36>you know, I've I've been a listener of yours.

1128
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

1129
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:49.600
<v Speaker 36>You know, I understand that you're a monarchist, but do

1130
01:08:49.640 --> 01:08:55.880
<v Speaker 36>you believe that there would have to be sort of a.

1131
01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Ground swell.

1132
01:08:57.079 --> 01:09:00.840
<v Speaker 37>Of conversions to Orthodoxy in a given area order for

1133
01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:01.920
<v Speaker 37>that to be viable.

1134
01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Is that a fair assessment of your view?

1135
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:06.399
<v Speaker 3>Correct?

1136
01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:14.760
<v Speaker 37>Okay, Well, I guess I'm mean exploring that. I mean,

1137
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:18.880
<v Speaker 37>if hypothetically, in a country, even just a region of

1138
01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:27.760
<v Speaker 37>a country, there was instability and there was a vanguard party,

1139
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:34.000
<v Speaker 37>you know, of people who were committed Orthodox monarchists, who

1140
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:37.039
<v Speaker 37>had the blessing of the local clergy, even if the

1141
01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:40.239
<v Speaker 37>majority of the population was an Orthodox, would that be

1142
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.319
<v Speaker 37>wrong to you know, seize power.

1143
01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:46.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess I don't think any Orthodox clergy would do

1144
01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:50.079
<v Speaker 2>that unless they were moved or prompted by some sort

1145
01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:53.720
<v Speaker 2>of infiltrated you know, infiltration of some you know, CIA

1146
01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:55.039
<v Speaker 2>or FED group or something like that.

1147
01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:57.520
<v Speaker 3>That's the only way that would happen. Uh.

1148
01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:01.399
<v Speaker 2>I've never heard of clergy talking about taking up arms

1149
01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:03.359
<v Speaker 2>to overthrow a government.

1150
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:10.439
<v Speaker 37>Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily frame it as that,

1151
01:10:11.199 --> 01:10:16.760
<v Speaker 37>But there's a vacuum, and you know, we could have

1152
01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:20.800
<v Speaker 37>a Fukuyamas liberal state, we could have a Marxist state,

1153
01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:24.840
<v Speaker 37>or we could have an Orthodox state if we mobilize

1154
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:25.800
<v Speaker 37>fast enough.

1155
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:27.960
<v Speaker 10>You know, if that sort.

1156
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:32.640
<v Speaker 3>Of question, I'm going to move on ming again.

1157
01:10:48.199 --> 01:10:51.640
<v Speaker 29>Hello, I think I'm in I was just wondering if

1158
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:54.199
<v Speaker 29>you've read The Rise and Fall of the Papacy and

1159
01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:56.319
<v Speaker 29>if you think it's a good book.

1160
01:10:57.319 --> 01:10:59.319
<v Speaker 3>Uh, who wrote that one?

1161
01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:02.239
<v Speaker 2>Craig Krublia.

1162
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:06.840
<v Speaker 3>No, not read it? No, so fire? What's up?

1163
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Hello?

1164
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Jay?

1165
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Can you hear me? Yeah?

1166
01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:24.960
<v Speaker 38>Yeah, I'll try to make this quick because I know

1167
01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:27.399
<v Speaker 38>I'm on a lot, but I have a few friends

1168
01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:31.000
<v Speaker 38>who are atheist and they have this like line they

1169
01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:33.039
<v Speaker 38>almost kind of repeat, and I'd be happy for in

1170
01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:35.479
<v Speaker 38>and Eyes to weigh in on this. But universalism is

1171
01:11:35.560 --> 01:11:37.000
<v Speaker 38>kind of like a hell they want to die on

1172
01:11:37.479 --> 01:11:41.239
<v Speaker 38>where they say Christianity can only be true if universalism

1173
01:11:41.319 --> 01:11:43.319
<v Speaker 38>is true. No, I know you've engaged with this in

1174
01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:46.039
<v Speaker 38>the past, but like, how should I really like persuade

1175
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:49.359
<v Speaker 38>someone right against universalism.

1176
01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I've never heard this argument that atheists think that Christianity

1177
01:11:53.800 --> 01:11:55.520
<v Speaker 2>necessitates universalism.

1178
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:56.399
<v Speaker 3>I've never heard this.

1179
01:11:57.039 --> 01:11:57.720
<v Speaker 10>Are you familiar?

1180
01:11:58.079 --> 01:11:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm not saying it's not true.

1181
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:01.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm to say or that they're not an argument just

1182
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:04.359
<v Speaker 2>like it's a weird line of argumentation for an atheist

1183
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:07.159
<v Speaker 2>to say, like your position has to be this.

1184
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:12.359
<v Speaker 34>I can kind of speculate generally how they argue from

1185
01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:14.359
<v Speaker 34>kind of almost like a theodicy or something.

1186
01:12:15.079 --> 01:12:15.760
<v Speaker 10>I'll say this much.

1187
01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:17.119
<v Speaker 38>I don't mean to interrupt at all, but like what

1188
01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:19.359
<v Speaker 38>I usually hear is that they don't think.

1189
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:21.079
<v Speaker 10>It's like fitting with a just God.

1190
01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:23.520
<v Speaker 38>Right, Like they see, how is this like the most

1191
01:12:23.560 --> 01:12:26.520
<v Speaker 38>horrific idea ever conceivable, as like Chris Vernchins puts it,

1192
01:12:26.840 --> 01:12:27.920
<v Speaker 38>and they think like, well.

1193
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:29.439
<v Speaker 10>If Christianity were true.

1194
01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:31.760
<v Speaker 38>Then like I'm just going to drop this whole hell concept. Right,

1195
01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:35.239
<v Speaker 38>they don't think it's compatible with omnib benevolence. Now what

1196
01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:36.760
<v Speaker 38>should I say to really talk them out of it?

1197
01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Because well, I don't understand why we're supposed to be

1198
01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:49.159
<v Speaker 2>bound by the claims and assertions of an atheist as

1199
01:12:49.159 --> 01:12:52.479
<v Speaker 2>to what Christianity must mean. They need to demonstrate why

1200
01:12:52.520 --> 01:12:58.199
<v Speaker 2>that's the case, Why does Christian theology necessitate universalism? And

1201
01:12:58.359 --> 01:13:00.439
<v Speaker 2>usually they'll probably appeal to something like well, it's just

1202
01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:03.800
<v Speaker 2>not fair. Well, the position is not that God arbitrarily

1203
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:07.399
<v Speaker 2>picks and damns people. That's Calvinism. So maybe they're responding

1204
01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:10.000
<v Speaker 2>to Calvinism. I don't know, but I mean, we also

1205
01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:13.119
<v Speaker 2>don't have I don't think the Latin medieval idea of

1206
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:16.319
<v Speaker 2>like a literal lake of fire. Lake of fire is

1207
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the river of life. It's the energies of God that

1208
01:13:20.680 --> 01:13:23.399
<v Speaker 2>torment the wicked. So maybe they need to get a

1209
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:27.159
<v Speaker 2>better conception of what we think as Orthodox and not

1210
01:13:27.199 --> 01:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>like a Protestants.

1211
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:30.239
<v Speaker 34>So I was just gonna say, too, they're going to

1212
01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:38.920
<v Speaker 34>take all these words good, armory, benevolence, justice, and they're

1213
01:13:38.920 --> 01:13:40.800
<v Speaker 34>going to have their own meanings of it that they're

1214
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:43.800
<v Speaker 34>going to try to impose on. So, like Jay was saying,

1215
01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:47.279
<v Speaker 34>you just question them on that, like outside of an

1216
01:13:47.399 --> 01:13:50.119
<v Speaker 34>Orthodox paradigm, how are you going to be able to

1217
01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.000
<v Speaker 34>justify those and define those properly?

1218
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Dan?

1219
01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:55.439
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

1220
01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Hey?

1221
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:02.960
<v Speaker 39>Jay, I'm here to debate about some stuff that I

1222
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:04.199
<v Speaker 39>don't really know anything about.

1223
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:08.359
<v Speaker 2>So I'm here company because pretty much everybody last three

1224
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:09.119
<v Speaker 2>days we've done that.

1225
01:14:09.199 --> 01:14:13.159
<v Speaker 39>So yeah, No, I just had a question. I heard

1226
01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:15.239
<v Speaker 39>you were going to get together with Sam Shamoun and

1227
01:14:15.319 --> 01:14:17.520
<v Speaker 39>William Albreck. Is that still happening?

1228
01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:22.359
<v Speaker 2>No, because nobody in my circles wants to interact with

1229
01:14:22.399 --> 01:14:25.800
<v Speaker 2>William Albreck, And so what I suggested to Sam was

1230
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:30.720
<v Speaker 2>one on one, separate presentations because I also do not

1231
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:33.640
<v Speaker 2>have any interest in direct interactions with William Albret because

1232
01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:35.520
<v Speaker 2>he's such a slimy, ridiculous character.

1233
01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, but did you like to bring any of his

1234
01:14:41.079 --> 01:14:42.680
<v Speaker 3>arguments here? I'm happy to address them.

1235
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:45.319
<v Speaker 39>I don't even know what his arguments are. I like

1236
01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:49.600
<v Speaker 39>to watch. I like to watch when he probably face Protestants.

1237
01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:52.319
<v Speaker 39>But it's I just thought that it would be cool

1238
01:14:52.359 --> 01:14:55.199
<v Speaker 39>to see you and him in a room. But I

1239
01:14:55.560 --> 01:14:58.920
<v Speaker 39>didn't know about the slime. I don't know if there's

1240
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:01.119
<v Speaker 39>any is there anywhere he can direct me to that

1241
01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:04.479
<v Speaker 39>would show me that you know, he's.

1242
01:15:04.319 --> 01:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Not He gave he gave Lofton my phone number, and

1243
01:15:06.880 --> 01:15:08.079
<v Speaker 2>then Lofton sent.

1244
01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:08.880
<v Speaker 3>Me his phone number.

1245
01:15:09.079 --> 01:15:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, okay, Chase, what's up.

1246
01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:20.359
<v Speaker 3>A mute?

1247
01:15:20.399 --> 01:15:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Chase?

1248
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:24.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it took a second this time. That's funny.

1249
01:15:25.039 --> 01:15:27.159
<v Speaker 40>And I heard unmute and I was waiting for it

1250
01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:30.479
<v Speaker 40>to like connect. I just wanted to say, I remember.

1251
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:32.000
<v Speaker 40>I think it was like a year, maybe a year

1252
01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:34.720
<v Speaker 40>and a half, maybe even two years ago. William Albreck

1253
01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:38.520
<v Speaker 40>was in a chat on one of Jay's streams, literally

1254
01:15:38.680 --> 01:15:42.119
<v Speaker 40>challenging him to a fight, saying J ways like one

1255
01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:45.560
<v Speaker 40>hundred and fifty pounds, soaking wet, all this stuff and

1256
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:48.399
<v Speaker 40>just talking about beating up Jay and it's just funny.

1257
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I shot at it and then he said

1258
01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:52.079
<v Speaker 2>he never said it's he's a completely liar.

1259
01:15:52.319 --> 01:15:55.000
<v Speaker 4>Yep, yep, And it's just it's just funny. It's That's

1260
01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:55.800
<v Speaker 4>all I wanted.

1261
01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:59.760
<v Speaker 40>To say, is these people are goofy, non serious people.

1262
01:16:00.039 --> 01:16:04.359
<v Speaker 40>He never threatens people. He'll threaten their worldview, and I

1263
01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:07.399
<v Speaker 40>refute it. But William Albrick, did you see Brice in

1264
01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:07.680
<v Speaker 40>the day?

1265
01:16:08.159 --> 01:16:10.840
<v Speaker 10>Will I will spile with you anytime. Let's Fox, Let's Fox.

1266
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1267
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.159
<v Speaker 4>Wait wait, wait what da is?

1268
01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Wait?

1269
01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:15.319
<v Speaker 10>What dad is?

1270
01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:18.680
<v Speaker 3>So when Bryson loses it debate, he wants to fight basically.

1271
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:20.279
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I just wanted to bring that up.

1272
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:21.359
<v Speaker 3>That's all I got. I'll pop out.

1273
01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:23.680
<v Speaker 4>I just wanted to all. Brick's just a goofy person.

1274
01:16:25.319 --> 01:16:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm surprised that really anybody think. But I think

1275
01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:31.479
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people don't know, like any of the background.

1276
01:16:31.479 --> 01:16:34.119
<v Speaker 2>And you know, it's just like Lofton. I think over time,

1277
01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Lofton eventually became his own worst enemy. He ran everybody

1278
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:39.439
<v Speaker 2>off and because he was so nasty, like what does

1279
01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:42.399
<v Speaker 2>he get? Like, I don't know eighty fifty people on

1280
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:45.880
<v Speaker 2>his live streames. I haven't kept up with him, but

1281
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:48.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, nobody talks about Lofton anymore because he's his

1282
01:16:48.359 --> 01:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>own worst enemy. And so you just give these guys

1283
01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>enough time and all Brick will do the same thing.

1284
01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:55.520
<v Speaker 3>Leonel.

1285
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:03.159
<v Speaker 41>Hello, Jay, how's it going?

1286
01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:04.079
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

1287
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:04.239
<v Speaker 10>Man?

1288
01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Hey?

1289
01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:08.960
<v Speaker 41>So, I've been a Christian for about five months, and

1290
01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:14.720
<v Speaker 41>I understand the criticism of a penal substitutionary atonement because

1291
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:18.520
<v Speaker 41>of the divine will. So I was wondering, if the

1292
01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:23.840
<v Speaker 41>atonement's not substitutionary, how does atonement work in Orthodox theology.

1293
01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, it depends on what a person means by the phrases,

1294
01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:31.319
<v Speaker 2>because you could argue that Orthodox Christian theology has a

1295
01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:35.199
<v Speaker 2>form of substitution and a there is a legal penal

1296
01:17:35.239 --> 01:17:38.319
<v Speaker 2>component tument to it, but it is not the Protestant doctrine,

1297
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:41.159
<v Speaker 2>because the Protestant doctrine, if you're consistent with it, is

1298
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:44.399
<v Speaker 2>anti trinitarian because it says that the sun was damned

1299
01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:47.279
<v Speaker 2>in order to take the penalty for us, and it's

1300
01:17:47.319 --> 01:17:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a purely legal transaction, which is not at all didn't

1301
01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:52.439
<v Speaker 2>exist in the ancient world. That's why you had to

1302
01:17:52.439 --> 01:17:55.399
<v Speaker 2>have nominalism come first before you could have a purely

1303
01:17:55.479 --> 01:17:58.560
<v Speaker 2>legal status of righteousness. You can read Haiko Oberman's book

1304
01:17:58.600 --> 01:18:01.640
<v Speaker 2>on that where he talks about how nobody had this

1305
01:18:01.720 --> 01:18:06.119
<v Speaker 2>conception of a purely legal status until Gabriel Bile Liam

1306
01:18:06.159 --> 01:18:08.159
<v Speaker 2>of Oakham, and that's what influenced Luthor to be able

1307
01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:10.319
<v Speaker 2>to say that God could declare you righteous when you're

1308
01:18:10.359 --> 01:18:13.720
<v Speaker 2>in fact wicked. So that's all read into the text

1309
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:16.399
<v Speaker 2>of Paul. And that's why nobody in the church up

1310
01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:21.079
<v Speaker 2>until Luther taught a purely nominal legal status of righteousness.

1311
01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:24.760
<v Speaker 2>So the anti trinitarian element and the nominalism element pretty

1312
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:30.039
<v Speaker 2>much just destroys that. Yeah, I understand that. I understand that.

1313
01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:34.800
<v Speaker 41>All right, Do you have any recommendations for books on

1314
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:36.239
<v Speaker 41>like iconoclasm.

1315
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:39.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would read St.

1316
01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Theodore the studites little book on the Holy Images, and

1317
01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:46.239
<v Speaker 2>I would read John Damascus's book Defense the Holy Icons.

1318
01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Both of those books are very small, they're not very long.

1319
01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:52.359
<v Speaker 3>It's up and for him.

1320
01:18:52.359 --> 01:18:55.000
<v Speaker 2>If anybody wants to request to speak, come on to debate.

1321
01:18:55.479 --> 01:19:01.119
<v Speaker 2>I ask you a question, present an argument. Feel free

1322
01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:04.239
<v Speaker 2>to do so. You can have the mic, just keep

1323
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:14.880
<v Speaker 2>it to the topics, keep it to argumentation. Larry, I'm.

1324
01:19:19.239 --> 01:19:25.399
<v Speaker 42>Yes, sir, uh, this isn't really on topic day, but Uh,

1325
01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:27.800
<v Speaker 42>if I'm a Christian, I've been one for a little while,

1326
01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.359
<v Speaker 42>and there's a question that's been bothering me.

1327
01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:32.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, if it's not on topic, what's up?

1328
01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:43.199
<v Speaker 2>Why do some people claim.

1329
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:41.039
<v Speaker 3>Alex what's up?

1330
01:19:41.079 --> 01:19:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Man? Hello?

1331
01:19:47.479 --> 01:19:51.399
<v Speaker 3>Hey man, Hey, what's up? Quick question for you. So

1332
01:19:51.439 --> 01:19:53.800
<v Speaker 3>I was talking to a Roman.

1333
01:19:53.520 --> 01:19:58.000
<v Speaker 43>Catholic and he was trying to tell me that ascribing

1334
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:05.199
<v Speaker 43>potentiala to God is giving God a future, which violates God.

1335
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Being outside of space and time.

1336
01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:07.760
<v Speaker 43>I'm just curious your rebut to that.

1337
01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:11.319
<v Speaker 2>No, it's giving God free will, meaning that God doesn't

1338
01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:15.399
<v Speaker 2>have to actualize every possible world or every possible thing

1339
01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:18.560
<v Speaker 2>that he knows of. So if God really has free will,

1340
01:20:18.680 --> 01:20:21.560
<v Speaker 2>then he's free to create. And in that sense, there's

1341
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:24.239
<v Speaker 2>a quote. Potential in God does not mean that God

1342
01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:29.159
<v Speaker 2>undergoes change, although Roman Catholics and Thomas sometimes will struggle

1343
01:20:29.199 --> 01:20:32.520
<v Speaker 2>to explain, how did he go from creating from not

1344
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.760
<v Speaker 2>creating to creating if there is no change quote unquote,

1345
01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:38.159
<v Speaker 2>So you can just simply ask the Roman Catholic, well,

1346
01:20:38.319 --> 01:20:42.439
<v Speaker 2>as as doctor Bradshaw asked Tomashevsky in their discussion, well

1347
01:20:42.479 --> 01:20:45.199
<v Speaker 2>did he go from not creating to creating?

1348
01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:47.159
<v Speaker 3>And did the introduce a change.

1349
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:53.600
<v Speaker 43>Okay, cool. And they also they also like to say

1350
01:20:53.640 --> 01:21:00.640
<v Speaker 43>that because God goes from you know, not actualzing something

1351
01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:03.720
<v Speaker 43>to actualizing something, that to them seems like an imperfection

1352
01:21:03.800 --> 01:21:04.279
<v Speaker 43>in some way.

1353
01:21:04.399 --> 01:21:05.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't I don't understand that.

1354
01:21:06.239 --> 01:21:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, yeah, if God is perfect and his

1355
01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:13.560
<v Speaker 2>existence and operations and actions are identical to his essence,

1356
01:21:14.039 --> 01:21:17.479
<v Speaker 2>then there can't be creating when before that there was

1357
01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>no creating. So that's why it's called the modal collapse argument,

1358
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:23.840
<v Speaker 2>because the modal collapse argument leads to the idea that

1359
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:28.880
<v Speaker 2>there's an eternal emanation of creating, right, gotcha? Okay?

1360
01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:32.119
<v Speaker 43>And then one last thing, real quick, I didn't know this.

1361
01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:34.239
<v Speaker 43>I just figured this out talking to a Roman Catholic.

1362
01:21:34.319 --> 01:21:38.479
<v Speaker 43>They say that there's no real distinction between the persons

1363
01:21:38.479 --> 01:21:39.199
<v Speaker 43>in the essence.

1364
01:21:39.399 --> 01:21:40.560
<v Speaker 2>Is that that is correct?

1365
01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

1366
01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Thomas Aquana says that, how is that not? Just like,

1367
01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:49.520
<v Speaker 2>well again, it should lead to modalism, correct, Okay? Well yeah,

1368
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:53.920
<v Speaker 2>because they're heterodox. So we've had this debate probably a

1369
01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:54.920
<v Speaker 2>thousand times for.

1370
01:21:56.640 --> 01:21:57.560
<v Speaker 3>The last ten years.

1371
01:21:58.199 --> 01:22:00.079
<v Speaker 2>Anybody else is upenfmous you want to come on to

1372
01:22:00.159 --> 01:22:11.239
<v Speaker 2>ask a question. Topics are evangelical dispensationalism, Zionism, Catholicism, Hebrew Roots, Muslims, Calvinists,

1373
01:22:11.960 --> 01:22:18.399
<v Speaker 2>non denominational Mormonism, Mormonism. Anybody want to come on a hit,

1374
01:22:18.439 --> 01:22:21.520
<v Speaker 2>request to speak, and you'll be given the microphone and

1375
01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you can make an argument, you can ask a question,

1376
01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:26.359
<v Speaker 2>you can do whatever you want. If you disagree, if

1377
01:22:26.359 --> 01:22:28.960
<v Speaker 2>you agree, just keep it to the topics. Please.

1378
01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:32.039
<v Speaker 3>It's not catechumen f a night.

1379
01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:36.560
<v Speaker 2>So if you have disagreements, if you have comments, osmotic,

1380
01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:45.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm your.

1381
01:22:48.119 --> 01:22:48.880
<v Speaker 3>Hey, what's up? Jay?

1382
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Hey? Father?

1383
01:22:49.680 --> 01:22:53.800
<v Speaker 44>Than I is yesterday you had you had a conversation

1384
01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:58.920
<v Speaker 44>with that fellow and he was speaking about, you know,

1385
01:22:59.199 --> 01:23:03.279
<v Speaker 44>kind of stationalism. And then you would also mention something

1386
01:23:03.319 --> 01:23:06.039
<v Speaker 44>called the Milner Circle, which I wasn't familiar with, and.

1387
01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:11.720
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of wondering through a tragedy and hope

1388
01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:18.760
<v Speaker 2>and through the Yowan Roti books at least that ran

1389
01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>the British Empire, Lord Milner, Cecil Rhoads, Lord Rachel.

1390
01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:28.680
<v Speaker 44>Yeah, and so like is you know, what's the what's

1391
01:23:28.720 --> 01:23:31.880
<v Speaker 44>the Is there like a Jewish involvement in the you know,

1392
01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:34.479
<v Speaker 44>because it's like the dual Covenant theology kind of playing

1393
01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:38.560
<v Speaker 44>a pretty significant Uh, you know, it's carrying a lot

1394
01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:38.800
<v Speaker 44>of weight.

1395
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:39.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1396
01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean we've covered that every time it's come up

1397
01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:43.359
<v Speaker 2>in the last three days.

1398
01:23:44.640 --> 01:23:50.159
<v Speaker 44>Yeah, okay, yeah, but yes.

1399
01:23:50.239 --> 01:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>So Lord Rachel was a Jew and he was behind

1400
01:23:54.039 --> 01:24:08.239
<v Speaker 2>the Balfour Declaration. Correct, Anthony, anybody else, that's open for

1401
01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:09.960
<v Speaker 2>him if you'd like to come to the head of

1402
01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:12.039
<v Speaker 2>the line. I wish that wine mom will come back

1403
01:24:12.039 --> 01:24:13.079
<v Speaker 2>in here, that drunk wine Mom.

1404
01:24:13.159 --> 01:24:13.720
<v Speaker 3>She was fun.

1405
01:24:20.239 --> 01:24:22.600
<v Speaker 2>All right, Anthony, you're having a hard time connecting, so

1406
01:24:24.079 --> 01:24:27.319
<v Speaker 2>come out, come back in. So it's open for any dispensationalists.

1407
01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Anybody else. We'll go to sidekick Johnny and then too.

1408
01:24:32.359 --> 01:24:33.159
<v Speaker 3>In defiance.

1409
01:24:37.720 --> 01:24:38.439
<v Speaker 2>Hey, what up, Jake?

1410
01:24:38.439 --> 01:24:38.840
<v Speaker 4>Can you here?

1411
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:39.199
<v Speaker 1>Sir?

1412
01:24:40.279 --> 01:24:40.720
<v Speaker 2>All right?

1413
01:24:41.560 --> 01:24:44.079
<v Speaker 45>I just what's what you guys have been talking about.

1414
01:24:45.720 --> 01:24:48.359
<v Speaker 45>I think there's a lot of listeners not aware the

1415
01:24:48.479 --> 01:24:52.359
<v Speaker 45>book got called The Armageddon Deception by Michael Sullivan.

1416
01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:57.439
<v Speaker 3>I'm not familiar with the book. Well, it talks.

1417
01:24:57.199 --> 01:25:01.119
<v Speaker 45>About why why they can't be peace in the Middle

1418
01:25:01.159 --> 01:25:04.960
<v Speaker 45>East until we figure out what's wrong, and with the

1419
01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.239
<v Speaker 45>deception of the Holy Land and all that good stuff,

1420
01:25:08.239 --> 01:25:11.720
<v Speaker 45>but goes into the whole seventy a d stuff, And

1421
01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:17.840
<v Speaker 45>I just think your listeners would I'll.

1422
01:25:17.039 --> 01:25:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Take a look at that. Appreciate that. Raven Naws. I

1423
01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:36.680
<v Speaker 2>forgot Tyranny will go to you next. I'm mute, Raven Naws,

1424
01:25:36.680 --> 01:25:37.279
<v Speaker 2>do you want to talk?

1425
01:25:37.359 --> 01:25:37.840
<v Speaker 3>I'm mute.

1426
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Got there yet with up? Hello? Yell with up man

1427
01:25:59.560 --> 01:26:06.199
<v Speaker 2>ud all right, moving on cool.

1428
01:26:13.680 --> 01:26:17.239
<v Speaker 46>I just didn't know if you've ever heard of Jacob Hanson.

1429
01:26:18.479 --> 01:26:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Don't think so.

1430
01:26:19.039 --> 01:26:21.479
<v Speaker 2>Who's up He's been getting.

1431
01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:24.199
<v Speaker 46>A little bit of popularity with he's a Mormon apologist.

1432
01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:28.000
<v Speaker 46>He would did the little full circle with that atheist

1433
01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.880
<v Speaker 46>kid cosmic skeptic fella.

1434
01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:33.520
<v Speaker 7>But he's one that's kind.

1435
01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:36.560
<v Speaker 46>Of probably I would say top tier for Mormon apologists,

1436
01:26:36.560 --> 01:26:40.239
<v Speaker 46>which isn't just saying too much. But I'd be interested

1437
01:26:40.279 --> 01:26:42.000
<v Speaker 46>if you would challenge him on the debate.

1438
01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, he can come in here if you'd like to,

1439
01:26:43.760 --> 01:26:47.199
<v Speaker 2>and you just send him the the link to come debate.

1440
01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:48.880
<v Speaker 3>Raven Naws, what's up?

1441
01:26:51.399 --> 01:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Un mute? Nobody knows how they do a Twitter space?

1442
01:26:59.319 --> 01:27:01.000
<v Speaker 3>Are real? Camine?

1443
01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, hey, Jay, I got two questions.

1444
01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:16.720
<v Speaker 47>So the first question is pretending to like uh Zionism?

1445
01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:17.640
<v Speaker 7>Is so?

1446
01:27:17.840 --> 01:27:20.079
<v Speaker 47>I the church that I'm in, I'm in acquired for

1447
01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:21.840
<v Speaker 47>orthodoxy right now and the church.

1448
01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:22.199
<v Speaker 10>That I'm leaving.

1449
01:27:22.239 --> 01:27:25.760
<v Speaker 47>Is I got onest modalism and stuff like that. Besides that,

1450
01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:29.800
<v Speaker 47>they're like hardcore Zionists. And I asked them like, well,

1451
01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:32.439
<v Speaker 47>do the Jews have salvation? And I don't know the

1452
01:27:32.479 --> 01:27:35.000
<v Speaker 47>exact verse, but they say where our salvation comes from

1453
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:39.399
<v Speaker 47>the Jews? Like our salvation is of the Jews, and

1454
01:27:39.560 --> 01:27:41.520
<v Speaker 47>they pretty much that's their foundation.

1455
01:27:41.720 --> 01:27:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that just means that because Jesus is the

1456
01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:48.119
<v Speaker 2>product of the entire Old Testament period, that he is

1457
01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>the source of that salvation.

1458
01:27:50.119 --> 01:27:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Gotcha?

1459
01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:50.880
<v Speaker 10>Okay?

1460
01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:51.199
<v Speaker 2>Cool?

1461
01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:55.720
<v Speaker 47>And then the second question I have because I was

1462
01:27:56.560 --> 01:27:58.640
<v Speaker 47>not debating, because I'm not I can't really be an

1463
01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:03.520
<v Speaker 47>apologist for Orthodoxy yet, but this is against my Catholic friend.

1464
01:28:03.920 --> 01:28:07.479
<v Speaker 47>He was saying, well, Orthodoxy doesn't have that much of

1465
01:28:07.479 --> 01:28:11.119
<v Speaker 47>an outreach when it comes to evangelia, you know.

1466
01:28:11.039 --> 01:28:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Like I can go check out Ubi Petris's videos. He's

1467
01:28:14.199 --> 01:28:18.159
<v Speaker 2>made two videos on that topic on what Orthodox evangelism is.

1468
01:28:18.319 --> 01:28:22.239
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of Protestants equate quote evangelism with whatever

1469
01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:25.359
<v Speaker 2>goofy nonsense that they do. That's not what the Orthodox

1470
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Church conceives of evangelism, as it's much more in depth

1471
01:28:28.359 --> 01:28:31.479
<v Speaker 2>and more you know, it's a three year catechumen, a

1472
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>period anywhere from one to three years. So tracks and

1473
01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:38.399
<v Speaker 2>yapping on the street corner is not evangelism, all right, sop,

1474
01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:40.600
<v Speaker 2>And for him if he wants to hop on, if

1475
01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:43.359
<v Speaker 2>you would like to request to speak, you can. I'll

1476
01:28:43.359 --> 01:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>bring you up. If you're a Muslim, if you're Hebrew Roots,

1477
01:28:45.680 --> 01:28:47.840
<v Speaker 2>if you're a Rumman Catholic, if you're an Evangelical, if

1478
01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:51.880
<v Speaker 2>you're a dispensationalist, if you are a Christian Zionist, if

1479
01:28:51.880 --> 01:28:56.439
<v Speaker 2>you are a Hebrew Roots Black, Heber Israelite, if you

1480
01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.600
<v Speaker 2>are a Mormon, if you are a all the hecks

1481
01:29:00.880 --> 01:29:07.319
<v Speaker 2>just human that all the secks, We'll just say, any

1482
01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:11.159
<v Speaker 2>sect you can go to the head of line. If

1483
01:29:11.199 --> 01:29:14.840
<v Speaker 2>you're a Roman Catholic papist, if you're a Calvinist, if

1484
01:29:14.840 --> 01:29:17.359
<v Speaker 2>you're a Lutheran, hit request to speak and I'll bring

1485
01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:20.119
<v Speaker 2>you up. We've still got four hundred people in here,

1486
01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:22.159
<v Speaker 2>which is pretty crazy, and nobody out of this foreigner

1487
01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:25.319
<v Speaker 2>people wants to come up here and chat, wants the debate,

1488
01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:30.199
<v Speaker 2>wants to ask questions, wants to present a position, prove

1489
01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:34.479
<v Speaker 2>your protestantism, give us an argument. I'm glad we got

1490
01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:37.399
<v Speaker 2>a couple of big fish in here to totally melt

1491
01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.399
<v Speaker 2>down like Donnie dark In.

1492
01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:47.239
<v Speaker 3>That guy's ridiculous. Uh, Ryan, what's up?

1493
01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:53.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm your.

1494
01:29:57.880 --> 01:29:58.359
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

1495
01:30:01.239 --> 01:30:05.840
<v Speaker 12>I just wanted to discuss with you. The Council of

1496
01:30:06.439 --> 01:30:12.279
<v Speaker 12>are the Synod of Black Grene twelve eighty five, the

1497
01:30:12.319 --> 01:30:13.600
<v Speaker 12>procession of the Holy Spirit.

1498
01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:15.520
<v Speaker 3>Okay, why do you want to discuss that?

1499
01:30:17.199 --> 01:30:22.760
<v Speaker 12>Do you think that it's somehow adverse to the teaching

1500
01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:23.600
<v Speaker 12>of the Philioquay?

1501
01:30:25.119 --> 01:30:27.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the purpose of the councils to refute

1502
01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the philioquez So yes, in a what way?

1503
01:30:33.119 --> 01:30:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Are you being serious?

1504
01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Are you joking? What do you mean? In what way?

1505
01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:36.760
<v Speaker 44>Like?

1506
01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:40.760
<v Speaker 2>The entire council exists to respond to the Council Lions.

1507
01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:41.359
<v Speaker 3>So what do you mean?

1508
01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:50.239
<v Speaker 12>Well, it says very paricle shines from and is manifest.

1509
01:30:49.840 --> 01:30:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Called that's called eternal manifestation. That's a rejection of the

1510
01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:55.000
<v Speaker 2>dual dual eternal procession.

1511
01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:00.920
<v Speaker 12>How is that?

1512
01:31:00.920 --> 01:31:03.960
<v Speaker 2>That's literally the meaning of the council and its purpose.

1513
01:31:04.000 --> 01:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>It's called the Orthodox doctrine of eternal manifestation. And the

1514
01:31:07.960 --> 01:31:13.000
<v Speaker 2>purpose of explicating that by Gregory of Cyprus was to

1515
01:31:13.199 --> 01:31:17.720
<v Speaker 2>refute the Council of Lions in the West teaching of

1516
01:31:18.399 --> 01:31:21.960
<v Speaker 2>double eternal Hypostidic procession. You could read Crisis and Byzantium

1517
01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:27.279
<v Speaker 2>by Papa Doocus's whole book on it. Are you familiar

1518
01:31:27.319 --> 01:31:29.560
<v Speaker 2>with the Palamas's book on this topic.

1519
01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:30.920
<v Speaker 12>No?

1520
01:31:31.119 --> 01:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Not, so he wrote Apidictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit.

1521
01:31:33.920 --> 01:31:37.439
<v Speaker 2>The whole book is about the theology of this council

1522
01:31:37.880 --> 01:31:41.479
<v Speaker 2>and it calls the Latin doctrine from Satan.

1523
01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:49.399
<v Speaker 12>Interesting. So do you think that the fact that you

1524
01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:52.399
<v Speaker 12>have four popes that are saints is a problem for you?

1525
01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:54.560
<v Speaker 3>Or why would that be problem?

1526
01:31:56.720 --> 01:31:59.319
<v Speaker 12>Do you think that those popes did not see themselves

1527
01:31:59.359 --> 01:31:59.960
<v Speaker 12>as popes?

1528
01:32:00.920 --> 01:32:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Again, are you the guy that called in here before

1529
01:32:03.159 --> 01:32:05.640
<v Speaker 2>with absolutely no knowledge of these topics trying to argue

1530
01:32:05.640 --> 01:32:06.119
<v Speaker 2>with me on this?

1531
01:32:07.279 --> 01:32:07.439
<v Speaker 12>No?

1532
01:32:07.600 --> 01:32:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Why would the Orthodox Church believing in multiple There's far

1533
01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:14.279
<v Speaker 2>more than four popes who are saints in the Orthodox Church.

1534
01:32:14.399 --> 01:32:17.399
<v Speaker 2>There's probably dozens in the first thousand years.

1535
01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Why would that be a problem with the Orthodox Church?

1536
01:32:20.680 --> 01:32:22.000
<v Speaker 12>Why don't you have a pope today?

1537
01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:24.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, Yeah, you are that guy. We have

1538
01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:25.640
<v Speaker 3>fourteen of them.

1539
01:32:26.680 --> 01:32:29.399
<v Speaker 12>Yeah, do you know what a pope is?

1540
01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Are you trolling? You can't be serious.

1541
01:32:36.439 --> 01:32:37.359
<v Speaker 12>I think you're trolling.

1542
01:32:37.520 --> 01:32:38.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm trying.

1543
01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I know. I bet you money. I know the Roman

1544
01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:42.079
<v Speaker 2>Kelly position better than you two. Yeah, I mean, do

1545
01:32:42.079 --> 01:32:45.239
<v Speaker 2>you want Vatican One's definition of the papacy. Yeah, exactly.

1546
01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:47.560
<v Speaker 12>Let's go what does Peter mean?

1547
01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what does Peter mean?

1548
01:32:50.039 --> 01:32:51.760
<v Speaker 3>Good job, dude. This is that guy who was in

1549
01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:53.279
<v Speaker 3>here last time doing the same stuff.

1550
01:32:53.359 --> 01:32:55.720
<v Speaker 34>You know, you know each bishop is Peter.

1551
01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:59.399
<v Speaker 2>He's this is the guy doesn't know anything. He thinks

1552
01:32:59.399 --> 01:33:02.199
<v Speaker 2>that if we think that there's a pope that where

1553
01:33:02.880 --> 01:33:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholics like, it's that he did the same thing

1554
01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:07.079
<v Speaker 2>like a few months ago.

1555
01:33:07.319 --> 01:33:09.359
<v Speaker 3>So it's not it's not even worth You can't get

1556
01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:16.000
<v Speaker 3>anywhere with that guy. He's almost like misfit patriot level stuff.

1557
01:33:16.319 --> 01:33:20.000
<v Speaker 2>So because he literally did exact same thing like six

1558
01:33:20.039 --> 01:33:21.680
<v Speaker 2>months ago, all right, it's hoping for him. If you're

1559
01:33:21.720 --> 01:33:27.239
<v Speaker 2>a Christian, Zionist and evangelical, dispensationalist, a Roman Catholic, a papist,

1560
01:33:27.439 --> 01:33:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Hebrew roots professor, if you are a Muslim, if you

1561
01:33:32.920 --> 01:33:37.399
<v Speaker 2>are a charismatic Pentecostal, you can come to the head

1562
01:33:37.399 --> 01:33:41.279
<v Speaker 2>of the line. A geomancer, a geomancer, a divant, a divener.

1563
01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:51.199
<v Speaker 2>If you're a necromancer, a sorcerer. If you play Dungeons

1564
01:33:51.239 --> 01:33:54.399
<v Speaker 2>and Dragons, you go to the head of the line.

1565
01:33:55.079 --> 01:33:58.359
<v Speaker 2>You can be our our dungeon master. Tonight, just hit

1566
01:33:58.399 --> 01:34:01.640
<v Speaker 2>request to speak and I'll bring you up. Man, I

1567
01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:04.760
<v Speaker 2>gotta there's some It seems like sometimes you can find

1568
01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:08.119
<v Speaker 2>like the perfect trigger code to bring in like the

1569
01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:10.279
<v Speaker 2>wildest people. So I think when you put.

1570
01:34:11.279 --> 01:34:13.279
<v Speaker 34>All war Hammer.

1571
01:34:13.600 --> 01:34:15.079
<v Speaker 2>No, when you put I'm saying like when you put

1572
01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:21.119
<v Speaker 2>in the title like Muslim, Islam, Tate, Evangelical, Zionism, dispensation,

1573
01:34:21.239 --> 01:34:25.319
<v Speaker 2>like you get some wild ones. Same thing happened when

1574
01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:27.439
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about icons Remember that we were talking

1575
01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:29.760
<v Speaker 2>about iconography for a while and we're getting like the crazies.

1576
01:34:29.760 --> 01:34:38.199
<v Speaker 2>That was awesome. Man, I forgot about that now I know.

1577
01:34:38.279 --> 01:34:38.800
<v Speaker 3>Out of this.

1578
01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Group, here we go, here's our civil Roman Catholic aion.

1579
01:34:45.399 --> 01:34:45.960
<v Speaker 3>Nina.

1580
01:34:51.279 --> 01:34:55.399
<v Speaker 30>Yeah. When I wanted to speak to you at the

1581
01:34:55.479 --> 01:34:58.640
<v Speaker 30>very beginning, one of my questions was, is there any

1582
01:34:58.640 --> 01:35:01.720
<v Speaker 30>way you can narrow the title of the space, actually,

1583
01:35:02.439 --> 01:35:06.560
<v Speaker 30>because I wasn't sure what the parameters were. So, you know,

1584
01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:10.000
<v Speaker 30>it might be that people are just they're almost overwhelmed

1585
01:35:10.199 --> 01:35:12.359
<v Speaker 30>sometimes when you have too many choices, you know, how

1586
01:35:12.359 --> 01:35:14.159
<v Speaker 30>that is, you don't know how to focus in on

1587
01:35:14.199 --> 01:35:17.039
<v Speaker 30>what you really want to ask or say, So I

1588
01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:19.119
<v Speaker 30>don't know, random thought that maybe that's what's going on.

1589
01:35:19.640 --> 01:35:21.880
<v Speaker 30>But if I were to ask you another question, and

1590
01:35:21.920 --> 01:35:26.680
<v Speaker 30>for all of you, there's been discussion of Zionism tonight,

1591
01:35:27.359 --> 01:35:30.520
<v Speaker 30>and that's also in the title. But for me personally,

1592
01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:35.840
<v Speaker 30>and again, I'm a woman, but I was very distraught

1593
01:35:36.359 --> 01:35:41.479
<v Speaker 30>by the events on October seventh, and I at the

1594
01:35:41.520 --> 01:35:44.720
<v Speaker 30>time happened to be a nanny working for taking care

1595
01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:47.920
<v Speaker 30>of a Jewish baby who I had become very close to,

1596
01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:50.399
<v Speaker 30>and the mom would be crying all the time with

1597
01:35:50.439 --> 01:35:53.520
<v Speaker 30>the news on in the background. She was literally terrified.

1598
01:35:53.680 --> 01:35:56.079
<v Speaker 30>You know, I would be kissing this baby constantly. It

1599
01:35:56.119 --> 01:35:59.399
<v Speaker 30>was just it was a very visceral reaction. And since then,

1600
01:35:59.600 --> 01:36:04.319
<v Speaker 30>I've a lot of sympathy with the Palestinians and with Gaza,

1601
01:36:04.520 --> 01:36:06.680
<v Speaker 30>which almost seems like a sympathy for Hamas, and of

1602
01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:08.560
<v Speaker 30>course we've seen that with all the marching in the

1603
01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:11.079
<v Speaker 30>streets and all of that. So for me, it's more

1604
01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:15.319
<v Speaker 30>about what side are people on who do they think

1605
01:36:15.359 --> 01:36:22.159
<v Speaker 30>are really pro violence and pro torture and the unjust

1606
01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:25.079
<v Speaker 30>treatment of women and children. And who do they think

1607
01:36:25.359 --> 01:36:28.159
<v Speaker 30>are maybe fighting back or in self defense.

1608
01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Now, now we've covered this, I've lectured on the entire

1609
01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:31.479
<v Speaker 2>history of.

1610
01:36:31.439 --> 01:36:32.279
<v Speaker 4>This whole conflict.

1611
01:36:32.319 --> 01:36:33.720
<v Speaker 30>I'm sorry, I think I.

1612
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Have a YouTube lecture on this topic. We've covered this

1613
01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:41.840
<v Speaker 2>topic for the last three nights extensively, and tonight's topic

1614
01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:45.279
<v Speaker 2>is not about modern nation state of Israel. It's called

1615
01:36:45.359 --> 01:36:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Christian Zionism in the sense of dispensationalism, because many Evangelicals

1616
01:36:50.039 --> 01:36:54.880
<v Speaker 2>are dispensationalists who believe that there's some sort of covenant

1617
01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:59.319
<v Speaker 2>that's dual or separate or continuing to exist for the

1618
01:36:59.399 --> 01:36:59.840
<v Speaker 2>modern a.

1619
01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:01.479
<v Speaker 3>Fust nation state of Israel.

1620
01:37:02.399 --> 01:37:06.399
<v Speaker 2>None of that has anything to do with the Christian

1621
01:37:06.520 --> 01:37:09.439
<v Speaker 2>covenants in the sense of Jesus being the fulfillment of

1622
01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:12.680
<v Speaker 2>those covenants. The history of Hamas and Israel and all

1623
01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that is a big, long rabbit hole, which again we've

1624
01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:18.520
<v Speaker 2>we've done separate topics just on that. But no, I

1625
01:37:18.560 --> 01:37:22.199
<v Speaker 2>would say this is a false dialectic an Orthodox Christian,

1626
01:37:23.880 --> 01:37:28.520
<v Speaker 2>if anything, is concerned with the two percent or so

1627
01:37:28.720 --> 01:37:31.199
<v Speaker 2>of the Orthodox Christians in Palestine.

1628
01:37:31.680 --> 01:37:32.479
<v Speaker 3>That's about it.

1629
01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:36.119
<v Speaker 2>So, and I think there are also Uni eight Palestinians

1630
01:37:36.119 --> 01:37:41.720
<v Speaker 2>as well, and they are persecuted by the Likud side

1631
01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:42.720
<v Speaker 2>of the state of Israel.

1632
01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:47.359
<v Speaker 15>I See, okay, well with has no.

1633
01:37:47.159 --> 01:37:49.159
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm just I'm in agreeing with you that I

1634
01:37:49.199 --> 01:37:52.800
<v Speaker 2>would we would not be pro Hamas at all, Savio.

1635
01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:02.239
<v Speaker 48>Yeah, hey ja, this is a quest question regarding dispensationalism,

1636
01:38:02.359 --> 01:38:05.680
<v Speaker 48>regarding the verse that most of these Gubers bring up

1637
01:38:05.680 --> 01:38:08.479
<v Speaker 48>when they bring up first Tessalonians four sixteen, where it says,

1638
01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:10.800
<v Speaker 48>this is a time in which believers will meet the

1639
01:38:10.840 --> 01:38:11.720
<v Speaker 48>Lord in the ear.

1640
01:38:11.840 --> 01:38:13.720
<v Speaker 4>What is the orthodox interpretation of this?

1641
01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:16.000
<v Speaker 2>That's just the second Advent. There's no reason to think

1642
01:38:16.039 --> 01:38:19.720
<v Speaker 2>that there's that in any way, is some delineated quote

1643
01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:23.720
<v Speaker 2>pre tribulation, rapture moment. The quote rapture just is the

1644
01:38:23.720 --> 01:38:25.239
<v Speaker 2>general resurrection.

1645
01:38:24.720 --> 01:38:26.920
<v Speaker 3>At the end of time. Thank you.

1646
01:38:28.119 --> 01:38:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, that's actually a great question because like you

1647
01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:35.560
<v Speaker 2>literally have these Protestant evangelicals who like read all of

1648
01:38:35.600 --> 01:38:40.560
<v Speaker 2>this stupid John Hagey Schofield Darby's system into like a

1649
01:38:40.600 --> 01:38:42.279
<v Speaker 2>few verses, I kid you not. Like one of their

1650
01:38:42.279 --> 01:38:44.720
<v Speaker 2>other verses is that I was in the spirit on

1651
01:38:44.760 --> 01:38:47.640
<v Speaker 2>the Lord's Day and I saw into heaven. I was

1652
01:38:47.680 --> 01:38:49.600
<v Speaker 2>caught up in the spirit. Right, So they actually think

1653
01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:52.600
<v Speaker 2>that when John says that he sees into heaven, that's

1654
01:38:52.640 --> 01:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>a type of the rapture, and that since John seas

1655
01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:58.600
<v Speaker 2>into heaven before the events of the Book of Revelation,

1656
01:38:59.119 --> 01:39:01.960
<v Speaker 2>that's quote proof of the pre tribulation.

1657
01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:06.479
<v Speaker 49>I want to add too, if you go to.

1658
01:39:07.039 --> 01:39:10.680
<v Speaker 19>Uh you see.

1659
01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Him pull it up real quick.

1660
01:39:13.239 --> 01:39:16.039
<v Speaker 34>One will be working in the field and caught up.

1661
01:39:16.520 --> 01:39:20.359
<v Speaker 34>Right where what that's actually talking about. That's not even

1662
01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:25.439
<v Speaker 34>about the end time. It's talking about your death, your

1663
01:39:25.479 --> 01:39:30.520
<v Speaker 34>individual death, that which is what we should all be

1664
01:39:30.560 --> 01:39:34.800
<v Speaker 34>focusing on. Right That one will be working in the

1665
01:39:34.800 --> 01:39:39.520
<v Speaker 34>field and then caught up means they'll die. You'll be dead,

1666
01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:41.439
<v Speaker 34>and the other one will be left behind. It doesn't

1667
01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.479
<v Speaker 34>mean that there's a rapture.

1668
01:39:43.560 --> 01:39:45.199
<v Speaker 3>The wait a minute, you said left behind.

1669
01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:54.680
<v Speaker 2>So you're teaching the left Behind series from.

1670
01:39:51.439 --> 01:39:54.880
<v Speaker 34>One is working in the field?

1671
01:39:55.399 --> 01:39:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I think it's in Luke, but it is in the

1672
01:39:57.560 --> 01:39:59.479
<v Speaker 2>He does mention like the days of Noah. And that's

1673
01:39:59.479 --> 01:40:03.439
<v Speaker 2>why people assume that the Days of Noah refers necessarily

1674
01:40:03.479 --> 01:40:05.000
<v Speaker 2>then to the end of the world. And there could

1675
01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:10.159
<v Speaker 2>be some aschological context because yeah, first That'thonius does say

1676
01:40:10.199 --> 01:40:11.800
<v Speaker 2>that we will be caught up in the in the

1677
01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:14.840
<v Speaker 2>clouds to meet the Lord. But it's it's a reference

1678
01:40:14.920 --> 01:40:17.279
<v Speaker 2>to the bodily advent of the second Coming.

1679
01:40:17.359 --> 01:40:19.439
<v Speaker 49>Wow, Jay here here you are wrong again.

1680
01:40:19.479 --> 01:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>It's Matthew see there.

1681
01:40:20.960 --> 01:40:22.359
<v Speaker 3>Well no, it's in lou too, So.

1682
01:40:22.840 --> 01:40:24.960
<v Speaker 7>Well, okay, is it?

1683
01:40:25.359 --> 01:40:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

1684
01:40:26.279 --> 01:40:29.439
<v Speaker 49>Then two men will be in the field, one will

1685
01:40:29.439 --> 01:40:31.640
<v Speaker 49>be taken in the other left, two women will be

1686
01:40:31.640 --> 01:40:36.520
<v Speaker 49>grinding the mill. I mean, the most obvious. Watch therefore,

1687
01:40:36.560 --> 01:40:40.399
<v Speaker 49>for you do not know what our the Lord is coming.

1688
01:40:40.479 --> 01:40:42.479
<v Speaker 49>So I think you're right. I think it's talking about

1689
01:40:42.520 --> 01:40:46.920
<v Speaker 49>immediate death, and there's an eschological element to that. But

1690
01:40:47.000 --> 01:40:50.439
<v Speaker 49>obviously two men working in the field and one's going

1691
01:40:50.479 --> 01:40:54.000
<v Speaker 49>to you never know you remember, you fool, your your

1692
01:40:54.039 --> 01:41:01.560
<v Speaker 49>life will be taken a record this day. So yeah, anyways,

1693
01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:02.960
<v Speaker 49>I just thought i'd just asked.

1694
01:41:02.720 --> 01:41:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the the Luke passages.

1695
01:41:07.720 --> 01:41:10.119
<v Speaker 3>Where's the Lake passage. That's not what I'm looking for.

1696
01:41:13.279 --> 01:41:14.800
<v Speaker 3>Let's see, I just had it pulled up here.

1697
01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:17.600
<v Speaker 34>I think it's probably Luke twenty three.

1698
01:41:17.720 --> 01:41:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Let me find it.

1699
01:41:19.720 --> 01:41:22.279
<v Speaker 3>Let's see Luke Luke twenty seven.

1700
01:41:22.399 --> 01:41:32.239
<v Speaker 2>What does that one say.

1701
01:41:31.159 --> 01:41:37.600
<v Speaker 10>Luke twenty one seven.

1702
01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Cause that text just says that many men's hearts will

1703
01:41:43.640 --> 01:41:46.479
<v Speaker 2>be failing for fear, looking at the signs, the powers

1704
01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:48.119
<v Speaker 2>that heaven will be shaken. They will see the Son

1705
01:41:48.199 --> 01:41:54.079
<v Speaker 2>of Man coming, glory and the clouds. So maybe maybe

1706
01:41:54.199 --> 01:41:57.359
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's Luke's Oh it's Luke seventeen. Excuse me, where

1707
01:41:57.359 --> 01:42:00.640
<v Speaker 2>it says the same passage in Matthew about being taken.

1708
01:42:01.600 --> 01:42:10.119
<v Speaker 3>Let me pull up Lo seventeen seventeen thirty four.

1709
01:42:12.479 --> 01:42:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Says two men will be in one bed, one shall

1710
01:42:16.760 --> 01:42:19.199
<v Speaker 2>be taken, the other be left. Two men will be

1711
01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:22.680
<v Speaker 2>women grinding, And they say where will that be? Lord,

1712
01:42:23.560 --> 01:42:25.640
<v Speaker 2>wherever the body is that the eagles will be gathered.

1713
01:42:26.600 --> 01:42:31.920
<v Speaker 2>So he says, remember Lot's wife, Yeah, oh, I see, Yeah,

1714
01:42:31.960 --> 01:42:34.000
<v Speaker 2>this is the because he talks about the days of

1715
01:42:34.039 --> 01:42:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Noah and Lot's wife. All the evangelicals assume, oh, well,

1716
01:42:37.359 --> 01:42:41.159
<v Speaker 2>that's the end of the world, right, because they think

1717
01:42:41.199 --> 01:42:43.600
<v Speaker 2>the days this actually proves your point. Right. So in

1718
01:42:43.680 --> 01:42:45.800
<v Speaker 2>verse twenty six, when it says, as it was in

1719
01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the days of Noah, so shall it be in the

1720
01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:51.600
<v Speaker 2>days of the Son of Man, all the evangelicals think, well,

1721
01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:52.800
<v Speaker 2>the days of the Sun of Man is the end

1722
01:42:52.800 --> 01:42:55.680
<v Speaker 2>of the world and pre tribulation rapture, right, No, no, no,

1723
01:42:55.720 --> 01:42:58.600
<v Speaker 2>The days of the Son of Man is the church age.

1724
01:42:58.680 --> 01:43:01.960
<v Speaker 2>That's why Jesus brought the last days when he came

1725
01:43:02.039 --> 01:43:10.199
<v Speaker 2>in his first advt Yeah, so that actually heard your point, Ronaldo.

1726
01:43:14.159 --> 01:43:16.439
<v Speaker 2>Remember that we talked about what we talked about with

1727
01:43:16.479 --> 01:43:18.640
<v Speaker 2>the guy last night, Sovereign Broad when he called in.

1728
01:43:18.760 --> 01:43:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Remember it says in.

1729
01:43:21.119 --> 01:43:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Joel what one and two says, I will pour out

1730
01:43:24.359 --> 01:43:25.880
<v Speaker 2>my spirit upon all fleshs in.

1731
01:43:25.880 --> 01:43:26.800
<v Speaker 3>The last days.

1732
01:43:27.439 --> 01:43:29.399
<v Speaker 2>And if you look in the Book of Accent Acts two,

1733
01:43:29.439 --> 01:43:33.479
<v Speaker 2>that's interpreted to be Pentecost. So Pentecost is the last days,

1734
01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:36.399
<v Speaker 2>because the entire church era is the last days.

1735
01:43:37.000 --> 01:43:55.079
<v Speaker 50>Ronaldo, I'm you, Ronaldo, I'm mute. Do you want to talk?

1736
01:43:56.640 --> 01:43:57.119
<v Speaker 50>I guess not.

1737
01:44:00.039 --> 01:44:02.199
<v Speaker 2>All right, it's open for him for any of the

1738
01:44:02.239 --> 01:44:16.239
<v Speaker 2>related topics of dispensationalism, Evangelical Zionism, Roman Catholicism, Hebrew Roots, Mormons, Muslims, Calvinists, Protestants, Papists.

1739
01:44:16.359 --> 01:44:19.720
<v Speaker 2>I can't even remember all the groups. If you'd like

1740
01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:23.039
<v Speaker 2>to make an argument, if you'd like to hop on,

1741
01:44:23.159 --> 01:44:26.000
<v Speaker 2>ask a question, you can just keep it to the topics. Please.

1742
01:44:26.039 --> 01:44:30.399
<v Speaker 2>We have multiple, multiple people not keeping it to the topics,

1743
01:44:30.520 --> 01:44:32.600
<v Speaker 2>so it's kind of a pet peeve. When you do that,

1744
01:44:36.439 --> 01:44:38.520
<v Speaker 2>So that would mean so, like she said, if this

1745
01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:41.680
<v Speaker 2>is confusing, if you do not agree with the Orthodox

1746
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Church position, that's any of you, even atheists. It doesn't

1747
01:44:47.840 --> 01:44:50.560
<v Speaker 2>unlist atheists, but we'll expand into atheists if you want.

1748
01:44:50.680 --> 01:44:51.159
<v Speaker 10>If you're.

1749
01:44:52.880 --> 01:44:54.680
<v Speaker 3>A Mormon, if you're a.

1750
01:44:54.279 --> 01:44:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Hebrew Roots, black heberus Alites, where you all at, Nathan Hines.

1751
01:45:05.720 --> 01:45:06.479
<v Speaker 3>I'm mute, Nathan.

1752
01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:14.760
<v Speaker 2>It's mystifying to me when people don't know how to

1753
01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:16.680
<v Speaker 2>work the spaces, like it's no one does this.

1754
01:45:16.720 --> 01:45:17.399
<v Speaker 3>I don't understand.

1755
01:45:17.399 --> 01:45:20.359
<v Speaker 2>Like I see spaces going on NonStop all day on

1756
01:45:20.399 --> 01:45:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Twitter and people don't know how this works. You just

1757
01:45:23.880 --> 01:45:27.720
<v Speaker 2>hit request to speak and then you unmute.

1758
01:45:28.359 --> 01:45:30.119
<v Speaker 3>Nathan. Do you want to talk? You have to unmute.

1759
01:45:30.520 --> 01:45:33.880
<v Speaker 51>Oh I'm sorry, my apology, sir. Hey, look man, I've

1760
01:45:33.920 --> 01:45:37.079
<v Speaker 51>been listening to you for years on Alex Jones, and

1761
01:45:37.119 --> 01:45:38.760
<v Speaker 51>I just want to let you know that I really

1762
01:45:38.920 --> 01:45:46.640
<v Speaker 51>appreciate your education, prowess and your whole just everything you say.

1763
01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:50.000
<v Speaker 51>I'm just like I just nose dive into and I

1764
01:45:50.039 --> 01:45:58.199
<v Speaker 51>appreciate you, man. And my thought process is this whole

1765
01:45:58.800 --> 01:46:04.800
<v Speaker 51>Muslim like nightmare that's been going on over in Europe

1766
01:46:04.840 --> 01:46:07.680
<v Speaker 51>for the past like fifteen years that it seems to

1767
01:46:07.680 --> 01:46:12.199
<v Speaker 51>be leaking out over here. At what point in time

1768
01:46:12.560 --> 01:46:16.920
<v Speaker 51>do the American people really wake up to realize that

1769
01:46:17.119 --> 01:46:22.000
<v Speaker 51>this is against Christian values. And thank you for listening.

1770
01:46:22.119 --> 01:46:24.680
<v Speaker 51>I appreciate your brother. You take care of yourself.

1771
01:46:26.640 --> 01:46:32.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I underestimated the usefulness of Islam to

1772
01:46:32.359 --> 01:46:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the global elite, and they would flood the West, even

1773
01:46:36.920 --> 01:46:41.399
<v Speaker 2>America with the Muslim So, you know, only in the

1774
01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:46.840
<v Speaker 2>last say, six years of debating Muslims extensively, have I

1775
01:46:46.920 --> 01:46:49.359
<v Speaker 2>really understood a lot more about Islam and how just

1776
01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:50.800
<v Speaker 2>preposterous it is.

1777
01:46:50.880 --> 01:46:53.239
<v Speaker 3>It's just it's just such.

1778
01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:55.600
<v Speaker 2>A low I mean, I'm being nice when I say

1779
01:46:55.680 --> 01:46:57.880
<v Speaker 2>it's like a low IQ cult. I mean you have

1780
01:46:57.920 --> 01:47:02.359
<v Speaker 2>to be really really do just like last night's evangelical

1781
01:47:02.439 --> 01:47:05.079
<v Speaker 2>zionis that you have to be equally as dumb like

1782
01:47:05.119 --> 01:47:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that guy to believe in this stuff because there's just

1783
01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:15.159
<v Speaker 2>so much historical, biblical evidence against any of it. I mean,

1784
01:47:15.199 --> 01:47:19.039
<v Speaker 2>we had Muslims for six hours a few months ago,

1785
01:47:19.640 --> 01:47:22.560
<v Speaker 2>none of whom could restate what a hypothetical is. And

1786
01:47:22.600 --> 01:47:24.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm not trying to be mean, And you can call

1787
01:47:24.399 --> 01:47:28.239
<v Speaker 2>it racist or whatever you want. But I mean, it's

1788
01:47:28.439 --> 01:47:33.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of like Joe's Witnesses, Like these groups dupe really

1789
01:47:33.319 --> 01:47:35.840
<v Speaker 2>simplistic people and so they fall for.

1790
01:47:38.479 --> 01:47:41.680
<v Speaker 3>You know, Trinid did not make sense more God than one,

1791
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:43.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, this kind of stuff. So I don't know

1792
01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:44.399
<v Speaker 3>what to say.

1793
01:47:44.960 --> 01:47:47.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and I say that because, like it should

1794
01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:49.680
<v Speaker 2>be obvious that if the Quran says that you can

1795
01:47:49.720 --> 01:47:52.520
<v Speaker 2>confirm the Qoran on the basis of prior revelation, and

1796
01:47:52.560 --> 01:47:58.079
<v Speaker 2>the revelation contradicts the Koran, then the Quran is false, right,

1797
01:47:58.119 --> 01:48:03.000
<v Speaker 2>because the prior revelation takes precedence over the new revelation.

1798
01:48:03.640 --> 01:48:07.039
<v Speaker 2>But the new revelation contradicts the prior and then Muslims

1799
01:48:07.079 --> 01:48:09.720
<v Speaker 2>can't figure out why that's a circle or why that's

1800
01:48:09.760 --> 01:48:13.600
<v Speaker 2>a contradiction. And they can't even I'd say ninety nine

1801
01:48:13.640 --> 01:48:16.319
<v Speaker 2>percent of them. They can't even restate what the argument is.

1802
01:48:16.960 --> 01:48:20.520
<v Speaker 2>You have to get to like doctor Khalil, who has

1803
01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:22.560
<v Speaker 2>a PhD. But at least he understands it. It's a

1804
01:48:22.640 --> 01:48:26.119
<v Speaker 2>very simple argument, but for some reason there is some

1805
01:48:26.159 --> 01:48:28.199
<v Speaker 2>sort of mental spiritual block going on.

1806
01:48:28.239 --> 01:48:29.560
<v Speaker 3>I think ultimately it is spiritual.

1807
01:48:30.760 --> 01:48:32.079
<v Speaker 2>It's hope and for them, if you have a question,

1808
01:48:32.079 --> 01:48:35.720
<v Speaker 2>if you have a comment, if you'd like to make

1809
01:48:35.760 --> 01:48:38.279
<v Speaker 2>an argument. If you disagree, you can come to the headline.

1810
01:48:39.119 --> 01:48:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Anyone that disagrees comes to the headline. Hit request is

1811
01:48:41.720 --> 01:48:44.520
<v Speaker 2>being to bring you up, and you can make an argument.

1812
01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:45.800
<v Speaker 3>You can ask a question.

1813
01:48:45.920 --> 01:48:55.199
<v Speaker 2>Do it all. We're looking for anybody who believes in Protestantism, Evangelicalism, Dispensationalism,

1814
01:48:55.720 --> 01:48:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Roman Catholicism, Papists, Muslims.

1815
01:48:59.439 --> 01:49:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Black keeper, Israelites, Hebrew roots. Uh.

1816
01:49:04.800 --> 01:49:08.119
<v Speaker 2>If you believe in om Shinriko cult out of Japan.

1817
01:49:09.600 --> 01:49:12.439
<v Speaker 2>If you believe in Jim Jones's People's Temple, you can

1818
01:49:12.479 --> 01:49:18.680
<v Speaker 2>go to that line. If you believe in Heaven's Gate,

1819
01:49:18.800 --> 01:49:21.039
<v Speaker 2>we got any heaven Marshall Apple White followers.

1820
01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:23.680
<v Speaker 49>Were they actually somebody told me they were actually vegan?

1821
01:49:23.800 --> 01:49:24.359
<v Speaker 4>Is that true?

1822
01:49:25.760 --> 01:49:26.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1823
01:49:26.600 --> 01:49:29.680
<v Speaker 2>That's a good question, Okay, I bet Rock would know.

1824
01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Do you want me to ask Groc here? Groc does

1825
01:49:35.239 --> 01:49:37.439
<v Speaker 2>all of my theology for me? Like, yeah, that's right.

1826
01:49:37.800 --> 01:49:40.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't even have to think anymore. I think, thank you, Grok,

1827
01:49:40.479 --> 01:49:41.119
<v Speaker 2>thank you Groc.

1828
01:49:41.199 --> 01:49:42.920
<v Speaker 3>I just literally asked him.

1829
01:49:43.199 --> 01:49:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm ready for the audible version, so I don't even

1830
01:49:46.000 --> 01:49:49.119
<v Speaker 2>have to type anything. I can just ask him Heaven's

1831
01:49:49.159 --> 01:49:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Gate I believe in?

1832
01:49:51.319 --> 01:49:52.840
<v Speaker 3>Did you say vegan or vegetarian?

1833
01:49:54.439 --> 01:49:57.079
<v Speaker 34>I said vegan, but okay, I don't.

1834
01:49:57.000 --> 01:50:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Might have been vegetarian, did have Evian's Gate? Believe in vegetarianism.

1835
01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:03.119
<v Speaker 3>Let's see what Grox says.

1836
01:50:11.399 --> 01:50:21.720
<v Speaker 2>According to Electronic Elon Musk, they do not explicitly center

1837
01:50:21.760 --> 01:50:25.720
<v Speaker 2>their beliefs around vegetarianism as a court doctrine, but it

1838
01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:30.199
<v Speaker 2>did emphasize detachment from the body. Some of their beliefs

1839
01:50:30.199 --> 01:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>and practices hint at vegetarianism. For example, the final meal

1840
01:50:33.760 --> 01:50:40.399
<v Speaker 2>together before their mass suicide was a non meat Wait, no,

1841
01:50:40.479 --> 01:50:43.600
<v Speaker 2>it was meat, consisted of supposedly turkey pop pie.

1842
01:50:43.680 --> 01:50:44.479
<v Speaker 3>Of course it could have.

1843
01:50:44.439 --> 01:50:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Been like like beyond meat or something.

1844
01:50:47.319 --> 01:50:47.680
<v Speaker 10>I don't know.

1845
01:50:49.520 --> 01:50:52.680
<v Speaker 34>You should ask Groc if Grock's planning to do an

1846
01:50:52.720 --> 01:50:54.199
<v Speaker 34>abomination of desolation?

1847
01:50:54.800 --> 01:50:58.000
<v Speaker 3>Whatever say?

1848
01:50:58.039 --> 01:51:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Can you lay out for me a John Hagen prophecy

1849
01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:03.880
<v Speaker 2>chart which which predicts the end of the world and

1850
01:51:04.000 --> 01:51:06.720
<v Speaker 2>exactly on what day?

1851
01:51:07.640 --> 01:51:09.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I forget, I forget about Bahai. I remember

1852
01:51:09.520 --> 01:51:11.960
<v Speaker 3>the Bahai faith that's behind we did have. We did

1853
01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:13.439
<v Speaker 3>have one Bahai guy calling one time.

1854
01:51:13.479 --> 01:51:15.319
<v Speaker 2>And the Moonies. Aren't there any Moonies?

1855
01:51:15.359 --> 01:51:15.600
<v Speaker 10>Left.

1856
01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:16.359
<v Speaker 3>Do they still exist?

1857
01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Oh, mooneyes, did you know did you

1858
01:51:24.479 --> 01:51:26.960
<v Speaker 2>hear the whole fracush yesterday for the deacon with that

1859
01:51:27.000 --> 01:51:30.159
<v Speaker 2>guy we were debating. Yeah? Did you see that? He

1860
01:51:30.279 --> 01:51:33.960
<v Speaker 2>was reading the notes and it said to th h

1861
01:51:34.039 --> 01:51:36.199
<v Speaker 2>that someone gave him and he thought that was too

1862
01:51:36.199 --> 01:51:39.079
<v Speaker 2>theologians when it was second this Lennans, Oh yeah, I

1863
01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:41.359
<v Speaker 2>joked with my wife. I'm like, did he just say

1864
01:51:41.399 --> 01:51:46.680
<v Speaker 2>too theologians? Yes, I'm like, that's hilarious. There was something

1865
01:51:46.680 --> 01:51:49.640
<v Speaker 2>else that people in the chat caught was rewatching some

1866
01:51:49.680 --> 01:51:51.359
<v Speaker 2>of the clips today which I didn't catch.

1867
01:51:51.399 --> 01:51:53.239
<v Speaker 3>In the midst of the debate. I didn't catch him.

1868
01:51:53.479 --> 01:51:55.159
<v Speaker 2>I forget what it was, but he said something else

1869
01:51:55.199 --> 01:52:03.079
<v Speaker 2>that didn't catch, but that was pretty wild. Anybody want

1870
01:52:03.079 --> 01:52:04.800
<v Speaker 2>to come on here, request to speak, and you'll come

1871
01:52:04.880 --> 01:52:06.840
<v Speaker 2>up to the head of line. If you want to

1872
01:52:06.840 --> 01:52:08.960
<v Speaker 2>ask a question, you can. I guess we just open

1873
01:52:09.079 --> 01:52:11.439
<v Speaker 2>up to any topics since nobody else seems to be

1874
01:52:11.479 --> 01:52:13.840
<v Speaker 2>coming on. We still have about four hundred people, which

1875
01:52:14.560 --> 01:52:23.720
<v Speaker 2>is bigger than my X space is usually good. Any questions, comments, disagreements.

1876
01:52:25.399 --> 01:52:34.159
<v Speaker 20>Damon, Hello, yes, sir, Hey, hey Joy, how are you?

1877
01:52:35.319 --> 01:52:39.000
<v Speaker 20>I found you? Do like you and Sam's debate on

1878
01:52:39.159 --> 01:52:42.279
<v Speaker 20>fresh and fits. Sorry, but I'm basically I'm in a

1879
01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:45.720
<v Speaker 20>country called Bermuda, and we don't have any like Orthodox church,

1880
01:52:45.800 --> 01:52:50.560
<v Speaker 20>and I grew up non denominational. But I'm basically trying

1881
01:52:50.600 --> 01:52:53.560
<v Speaker 20>to explore, you know, which denomination I want to choose,

1882
01:52:53.600 --> 01:52:56.920
<v Speaker 20>but there's no Orthodox Church here and I know you're Orthodox,

1883
01:52:57.119 --> 01:52:59.760
<v Speaker 20>And what do you suggest I do?

1884
01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:03.479
<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, that's a good question. In fact, Tristan had

1885
01:53:03.479 --> 01:53:04.000
<v Speaker 3>to deal with this.

1886
01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:09.119
<v Speaker 2>Tristan has had to travel I think eight hours to

1887
01:53:09.159 --> 01:53:13.079
<v Speaker 2>get baptized by a Serbian priest in Ecuador or north

1888
01:53:13.119 --> 01:53:16.279
<v Speaker 2>of Ecuador. So you might have to reach out to

1889
01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:21.840
<v Speaker 2>the nearest Orthodox church and be catechized through the priests

1890
01:53:22.159 --> 01:53:26.199
<v Speaker 2>remotely and arrange a baptism, which they will do. And

1891
01:53:26.399 --> 01:53:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Tristan is a shining example of that.

1892
01:53:28.239 --> 01:53:28.600
<v Speaker 3>Skeeter.

1893
01:53:41.359 --> 01:53:45.000
<v Speaker 52>Oh, and then my phone messed up.

1894
01:53:45.680 --> 01:53:46.079
<v Speaker 3>What's up?

1895
01:53:46.119 --> 01:53:46.239
<v Speaker 10>Man?

1896
01:53:47.119 --> 01:53:47.560
<v Speaker 2>All right?

1897
01:53:48.520 --> 01:53:51.319
<v Speaker 52>So I wanted to first just say, you know, I

1898
01:53:51.479 --> 01:53:57.520
<v Speaker 52>enjoy all the videos, but with my parents who are Evangelical,

1899
01:53:57.840 --> 01:54:01.600
<v Speaker 52>you know, Christian, and I am orthodoged Uh. One of

1900
01:54:01.600 --> 01:54:05.479
<v Speaker 52>the biggest things that was talked about last night with

1901
01:54:05.600 --> 01:54:10.520
<v Speaker 52>like what a Jew is? They usually say it's the

1902
01:54:11.319 --> 01:54:14.800
<v Speaker 52>whatever the Rabbinical Jews say. So they say it's usually

1903
01:54:15.119 --> 01:54:19.199
<v Speaker 52>matrilinal descent, right, you know. And I said, then what

1904
01:54:19.239 --> 01:54:23.279
<v Speaker 52>do we do about Messianic Jews? And they're like, well,

1905
01:54:23.319 --> 01:54:27.760
<v Speaker 52>they're just Jews that believe in Jesus. And I'm like,

1906
01:54:28.439 --> 01:54:31.119
<v Speaker 52>but do they have any of the traditions and everything.

1907
01:54:31.159 --> 01:54:33.560
<v Speaker 52>He's like, well, yeah, kind of, and they choose and

1908
01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:36.119
<v Speaker 52>I'm like, and I guess my favorite thing to call

1909
01:54:36.199 --> 01:54:39.159
<v Speaker 52>them is really Protestants and drag There's only one way

1910
01:54:39.199 --> 01:54:39.960
<v Speaker 52>to explain it.

1911
01:54:40.840 --> 01:54:41.399
<v Speaker 17>How would you.

1912
01:54:43.199 --> 01:54:47.479
<v Speaker 52>Without going too deep in the theology, I guess, but

1913
01:54:47.600 --> 01:54:51.840
<v Speaker 52>like on a surface level, explain that the because my

1914
01:54:51.920 --> 01:54:54.319
<v Speaker 52>dad always makes it an argument instead of like just

1915
01:54:54.359 --> 01:54:58.119
<v Speaker 52>a discussion. How would you, like, surface level explain that, yes,

1916
01:54:58.199 --> 01:55:02.520
<v Speaker 52>there are Jews, the true Israel is the Church without

1917
01:55:02.600 --> 01:55:05.119
<v Speaker 52>like I guess something that might be a conflict.

1918
01:55:07.079 --> 01:55:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, there is a conflict there, because the that's the

1919
01:55:11.079 --> 01:55:14.880
<v Speaker 2>only one that counts for anything. So I mean, that's

1920
01:55:14.920 --> 01:55:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Paul's point is that even though they might be still

1921
01:55:18.800 --> 01:55:21.600
<v Speaker 2>able to be called Jews in the sense of Abraham's

1922
01:55:21.600 --> 01:55:25.880
<v Speaker 2>biological descendants, their enemies of the Gospel unless they repent.

1923
01:55:26.119 --> 01:55:28.159
<v Speaker 2>So there is a conflict there, and there's no way

1924
01:55:28.199 --> 01:55:32.760
<v Speaker 2>to remove that conflict without removing the cross which christ where,

1925
01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:36.600
<v Speaker 2>which Paul says, is an offense to those who disagree Christopher.

1926
01:55:36.600 --> 01:55:47.960
<v Speaker 2>What's up, hey, Jay? Can you hear me? Yes, sir, Hey,

1927
01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:48.520
<v Speaker 2>what's going on?

1928
01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:48.760
<v Speaker 19>Man?

1929
01:55:48.960 --> 01:55:52.800
<v Speaker 53>Congratulations on that freaking SmackDown yesterday?

1930
01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:55.239
<v Speaker 10>That was hilarious.

1931
01:55:55.520 --> 01:55:59.359
<v Speaker 53>Second theologians, That's like, was absolutely ridiculous. I didn't even

1932
01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:00.439
<v Speaker 53>catch that the first time.

1933
01:56:02.279 --> 01:56:05.159
<v Speaker 2>That was I also think that when I said Apostolic college,

1934
01:56:06.039 --> 01:56:09.159
<v Speaker 2>I thought he was joking, But upon review, I think

1935
01:56:09.159 --> 01:56:11.159
<v Speaker 2>he really thought I was saying, like the Apostles went

1936
01:56:11.199 --> 01:56:13.439
<v Speaker 2>to college. No, yeah, he thought you were dumb.

1937
01:56:13.560 --> 01:56:14.920
<v Speaker 34>He was thinking this guy's an idiot.

1938
01:56:15.720 --> 01:56:18.039
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, he didn't even know what the term epistolic

1939
01:56:18.079 --> 01:56:20.239
<v Speaker 2>college meant. That is so funny.

1940
01:56:20.439 --> 01:56:23.279
<v Speaker 53>That was That was a good little Everybody was just

1941
01:56:23.359 --> 01:56:24.640
<v Speaker 53>riffing on that joke right there.

1942
01:56:24.680 --> 01:56:25.600
<v Speaker 12>That was hilarious.

1943
01:56:25.640 --> 01:56:27.760
<v Speaker 23>That's gonna that's gonna go down in the history books.

1944
01:56:28.399 --> 01:56:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Did you see how mad he was today with all

1945
01:56:30.119 --> 01:56:31.279
<v Speaker 2>the crazy stuff he was saying.

1946
01:56:31.640 --> 01:56:34.880
<v Speaker 53>He was so mad and he's just coping, right, And

1947
01:56:36.000 --> 01:56:39.359
<v Speaker 53>that's I wanted to ask you about Christian Zionism because

1948
01:56:40.399 --> 01:56:44.680
<v Speaker 53>I am a catech human in the antiochan Orthodox parish,

1949
01:56:45.279 --> 01:56:51.439
<v Speaker 53>and I came from an Evangelical church that was heavily Zionist,

1950
01:56:51.960 --> 01:56:55.000
<v Speaker 53>and something that I never even knew when I was

1951
01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:58.960
<v Speaker 53>going to that church was that the things in the

1952
01:56:59.039 --> 01:57:02.199
<v Speaker 53>tal Mood that are so anti Christian. And what I

1953
01:57:02.239 --> 01:57:06.159
<v Speaker 53>wanted to know from you is is that even is

1954
01:57:06.159 --> 01:57:09.279
<v Speaker 53>that a good point when talking to Christian Zionists to

1955
01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:12.640
<v Speaker 53>bring up the Talmud and all the anti Christian statements

1956
01:57:12.680 --> 01:57:13.359
<v Speaker 53>that are in it, or.

1957
01:57:13.359 --> 01:57:16.199
<v Speaker 2>Is that a relevant point? I would actually say that

1958
01:57:16.279 --> 01:57:19.760
<v Speaker 2>if you get the book by who's actually Jewish scholars.

1959
01:57:19.800 --> 01:57:23.399
<v Speaker 2>Name's Peter Schaeffer, and he's actually one of the many

1960
01:57:23.800 --> 01:57:26.680
<v Speaker 2>modern Jewish theologians who has admitted, for example, that the

1961
01:57:26.720 --> 01:57:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Old Testament is not Unitarian, that it teaches a multiplicity

1962
01:57:30.319 --> 01:57:33.760
<v Speaker 2>of persons in God. Schaeffer has a book called Jesus

1963
01:57:33.760 --> 01:57:36.720
<v Speaker 2>in the Talmud, and it's an academic text from Princeton.

1964
01:57:37.399 --> 01:57:41.000
<v Speaker 2>So that's useful in this debate because it's obviously not

1965
01:57:42.039 --> 01:57:44.359
<v Speaker 2>since it's written by a Jewish guy and it's from

1966
01:57:44.399 --> 01:57:47.479
<v Speaker 2>an academic publisher. It's not a conspiracy text. So it's

1967
01:57:47.479 --> 01:57:52.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot harder for people to say because Chapter eight

1968
01:57:52.199 --> 01:57:55.560
<v Speaker 2>is about jesus punishment in hell in the Talmud.

1969
01:57:55.960 --> 01:57:58.000
<v Speaker 3>So that's all true. But the thing is that