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Speaker 1: The bottom.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to another open forum. We're going to

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be discussing any debate topic relating to the topics listed above.

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If you are a dispensationalist, if you are an Evangelical, Protestant, Roman, Catholic, Hebrew, roots, Islam,

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any form of Aryan, Modalist, Unitarian, oneness, any of those

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are open subject as well. I didn't put atheists, but

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atheists can come and debate as well if you like.

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So pretty open tonight. Finish my third Hollywood book tonight.

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So I'm in a good mood. I'm ready to relax.

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Got the espresso Roland. I'm a little too tired to

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do this on YouTube, so I don't feel like putting

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all my panties and getting all spiced up for you

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boys and girls. So I'm just relaxing in my pajamas

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right now.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna have open debate.

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Speaker 2: The way this works is if you have not been

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in here, if you hit request to speak, you will

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pop up. I'll give you the microphone and then you

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can talk for as long as you want. If you're

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making arguments, if you know what it means to make

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an argument, that of course helps. It has been arguing

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it means that you present some thesis with supporting evidences

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or some sort of logical argument. Otherwise we'll stick to

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theology and church history as well.

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Speaker 3: FPV.

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Speaker 2: Keep in mind too, I'm a little tired because I

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stayed a really late finishing the book, so I'm not

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totally one hundred percent awake.

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Speaker 3: I woke.

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Speaker 2: I woke up kind of early to finish a little

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finishing touches on it, so I'm.

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Speaker 3: Kind of out of it today.

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Speaker 2: But that will give all the opponents a little bit

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of a handicap. I'll have a handicap for the opponents.

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P f PV flight Airborne get I'm mute.

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Speaker 3: Barely.

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Speaker 2: Are you calling me from the airplane? Yeah? Can you

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hear me? That's better.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry they connected my truck.

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Speaker 2: My name is Stephen.

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Speaker 5: I'm I'm typically an evangelist until I met your channel

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in sam Humun, and I recently become a catechy because

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of you. I brought it just some groups of people

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that live out in the woods that are part of

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a cult group, and I've been worried about them, so

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I've been trying to show them evidence, historical and archaeological data,

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and I saw a recent post from Capturing Christianity that

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showed that there's some evidence that points Peter to the

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I don't know if you've seen that that just came

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out from Captain Christianity, but he was talking about the

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news article that was posted about the home of Peter

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and two of his followers and makes Peter elevated to

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the position of pope.

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Speaker 4: Now, I don't believe in I'm not.

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Speaker 5: A follower of Roman Catholicism, but you know, I follow

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up underneath my priests, the priests that I have now.

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But I'm just wondering, what do you think about that

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or do you know about it?

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Speaker 2: I know, I have no idea what you're talking about.

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How does that relate to the cult in the Woods.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm trying to give them evidence and then

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this evidence popped up and they're like, well, if you're

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supposed to be going to the Orthodox Church, which I am,

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then why are you not going to the Roman Catholic Church.

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And then they showed that to me, and that just

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you know, and then they showed news articles and I

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was like, wow, I'll get back to you about that.

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So I thought that I would hop on here and

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ask you if you knew what I should say in response, Well.

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Speaker 2: I mean my first thought would be this sounds really

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outlandish and dubious. The point is not can you find

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evidence in the early Church for the Bishop of Rome

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having a first among equal status or a raised status

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canonically speaking?

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Speaker 3: The question is where does that? How does that prove?

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Vatican One.

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Speaker 2: The burden of proof of the Roman Catholic when they

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argue that infallibility and the Patrine Sea and all that

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was there from the earliest days, as Vatican One says,

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is that they have to prove that. They have to

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prove that the teachings of Vatican One were there. Otherwise

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they have to prove that a doctrine of all and

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that's self refuting, right, I thank you for your time.

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I only had that one question.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't have any personal issues with Cameron anymore. But

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Cameron is a committed evidentialists, which means that he thinks

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that you just prove an argument by piling up suppose

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that evidential claims.

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Speaker 3: But of course Christianity is an.

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Speaker 2: Entire paradigm and it's not going to be proven or

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just proven by any single piece of data because everybody

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interprets data according to their worldview, so I highly doubt

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that there's any such thing as Peter's palm which proves

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the papacy. It just sounds so outlandish on the on

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the surface. Greg I.

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Speaker 6: Hello, Jay, Yeah, how you doing.

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Speaker 3: Hey, what's up?

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Speaker 7: So?

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Speaker 6: I saw recently you were talking about the law of

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identity and that God is required for the law of

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identity to exist something like this. Maybe you could explain

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your position a bit if I haven't summarized to the.

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Speaker 2: Being of God, who he is, the divine mind. The

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attributes of God function as the grounding for logical categories

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like the law of identity. The divine sir, you could

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be of the divine being descried mind omni categories like omniscience.

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That type of a being is the only type of

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being that could function to ground something like a universal

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law of identity.

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Speaker 6: Okay, well, okay, I'm not going to say if I

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was right now. I just wanted to ask you ask

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you that and I'll think about it, maybe comment on

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it in a future space.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Jay. Mm hmmm, Joseph, it's open form if you want

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to pose a question.

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Speaker 3: Jay, tired, you're cutting an outlets. I can barely hear you, dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yo, we can't hear love.

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Speaker 3: We can't hear.

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Speaker 2: You, Noah? Is that better?

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Speaker 3: Coming out and coming back in?

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Speaker 2: All right? Yo? Can you hear me? Now?

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Speaker 3: Come out and come back in?

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Speaker 2: Man or I don't know. Walk to where you have

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a good signal. It's up and for him. If you'd

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like to come on and chat about any of the

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topics listed, Zionism, Christians, Zionims, I mean, dispensationalism, Evangelicalismosis, and

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Hebrew roots, Islam. They're all on the table tonight. I

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guess atheism as well. Not really focusing on atheism tonight,

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but if no one else calls in or has a

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comment or question, we can do that. I thought we'd

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get some more of these goobers coming in here, but

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I guess they don't. I mean this, it's hard to

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say like this. I've interacted with a lot of different

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circles and some of these audiences are these groups are

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just kind of saying store.

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Speaker 3: Ahead, go ahead, mil Hello, yell, what's up?

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Speaker 4: Hey Jay? Thanks for thanks for picking me.

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Speaker 8: But I just got a quick question, real quick that

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I'm trying to understand a little bit I'm going.

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Speaker 4: Back and forth with one of my friends, and I

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hope it's okay if I just asked the question.

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Speaker 8: Don't have a debate topic, but trying to understand the

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essence energy distinction a little bit better. And I've talked

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to some of my friends who say that the energy

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is God and that's how they'll talk about it. But

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it's I know, the energy is a thing, and the

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essence is obviously the essence of God.

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Speaker 4: So uh.

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Speaker 3: Any energies are operations or actions.

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Speaker 2: Just like if you were to work or do an

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act to build a house, you are fully present in

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every one of your actions. They proceed from you as

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a as a human being. Their actions proper to human nature,

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but you are not identical to the action of building

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a house. So in the same way, God's actions are

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fully him, He's fully present in them, but he's not

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reducible to or identical to.

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Speaker 8: His actions, right so you, So then we would say

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that his energies are not him, right.

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Speaker 2: They are. They proceed from him in the same way

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that you're working. Is what proceeds from you. It's an

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it's an energy proper to your nature. So in one sense,

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it is you, but another sense, it's not isomorphically reducible

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to or identical to you.

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Speaker 4: M So what does that mean, like isomorphically and all.

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Speaker 3: That reduced to reductionist identity?

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Speaker 4: Okay, gotcha?

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Speaker 2: Gotcha?

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Speaker 4: And would it thank you?

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Speaker 8: I appreciate that, and then would it would it be

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right to say that?

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Speaker 4: And again I'm just learning, right, So this is gonna

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sound hot, probably, But is God hidden in his energies?

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Is that a stupid thing to say?

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Speaker 2: Now? The phrase theology of hidden ess is sometimes applied

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to the essence. So God is unknowable by essence. That's

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called apathetic theology. But he's knowable by his attributes or energies,

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which Basil says in letter two thirty four come down

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to us. So the energies are cataphatic, that is, positive

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attributes or attributions that are knowable. The essence of God

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is apathetic, unknowable.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, all right, Jay? Well, hey, I appreciate your partner.

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Speaker 2: Thank you? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Good questions? Do you want to try again? Joseph?

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Speaker 2: Is that better?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What's up? Jay?

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Speaker 9: So I got a couple questions. So I saw when

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you were doing a debate. I watch Sam Shamon a

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lot could you just expand if you don't mind, I

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have a couple more questions so you can be short.

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How does Catholic lead the modalism? I was born LDS.

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I go to Trinity Church now since twenty twenty three.

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I've spoken to you before, So can you, because I'm

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obviously you know, can you explain how Catholic leads the modalism?

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Speaker 2: The Fourth Latteran Council defines God as identical to his

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essence and his existence. So God just is the divine essence,

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and the persons are also said to be by Quinas

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and other theologians identical to the divine essence. So while

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Catholics are not explicitly quote modalists, if they were consistent

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with their doctrine of divine simplicity as outlined at the

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Fourth Lattering Council, they would lead that.

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Speaker 3: Would lead to modalism. So that's the argument that we make.

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Speaker 2: Also, the Catholic teaching on participating in creative grace is

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an outworking of the same idea. If they didn't believe

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in an almost modalistic idea of divine simplicity, then they

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wouldn't teach creator grace because the whole reason they believe

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that what we partake of in salvation is created is

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because God is absolutely simple and you can't partake of him.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, the church cap Trinity Church today and it's obviously

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artist and ex Catholic.

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Speaker 4: I hope would you be.

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Speaker 9: I've only been on my journey, you know, I can't.

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Speaker 2: I can't understand you, dude, can You're you're cutting out?

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Speaker 3: I can't. Your questions are coming through Sean Malicon in

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your mind.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, so I'm not Roman Catholic.

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Speaker 11: I see you as more of like the Orthodox, more

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of as brothers as enemies. So I'm just wondering exactly, Like,

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I know your criticisms are like surrounding the like papal

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infallibility and uh a postive apostilistic succession, But you seem

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like a pretty reasonable guy, and considering like the Catholic

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Church's history of being more based in reason and the

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Orthodox Church being more based off of like the mysteries

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like how.

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Speaker 10: You came to your decision at become.

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Speaker 3: Orthodox.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, it's simply but if Catholic, if

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Catholic dogma contradicts the Catholicism is not true, I would

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disagree that Orthodoxy is somehow based in quote, mysticism over reason.

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I think that both East and West have always tried

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to balance it out, and the West eventually failed at that.

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So the Orthodox Church is not based on mysteries per se,

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unless by that you mean the mystery of the Trinity.

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But if the papacy contradicts augmatically, that invalidates the whole system.

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So it's not very I mean, you may not agree

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with that, but I'm saying the argument is not that complex.

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It's a pretty straightforward argument.

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Speaker 10: Are you there.

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 11: I guess yeah, thanks, I'll take that into considerate reason.

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Just I find the Coffelice Church had more like.

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Speaker 2: A history.

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Speaker 11: Uh Like we just talked about a Queenes.

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Speaker 2: And uh, you're cutting out, man, I can't. I can't

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hear any I find like come back out and people

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come out, come out and come back in tadlaw, are you?

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Speaker 12: Uh so?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 7: So, I have a degree in philosophy and I've written

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a book on Christian metaphysics. I'm from the Oriental Orthodox tradition,

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and I wanted to ask you what your understanding of

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the Oriental Orthodox Christology.

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Speaker 2: We're currently doing a multi hour, multi part series which

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we've completed two parts of on that very question. So

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I agree with the positions that are outlined in the

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Fifth Acumenical Council and in books like Saint Cyril of

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Alexander in the Christological Controversy by mcguckan. So if you

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want to take a look at those books for the

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recent to part one in part two that we've done

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on Oriental Christology, those would be my positions.

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Speaker 7: Okay, just quickly though, do you think that do you

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think that Oriental orthodox aremnophystes?

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Speaker 2: I agree with the councils that we hold to, which

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do say that your theology would end up in that

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even if you disagree that your president confession holds up.

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Speaker 10: Okay.

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Speaker 7: So the reason I'm asking that is because you just said,

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for example, that Orthodoxy focuses more on mysticism as opposed

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to reason when it comes to the.

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Speaker 2: Divine and say that that's what he said.

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Speaker 7: Oh okay, all right, find them.

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Speaker 3: Brenda, you get what I mean?

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Speaker 10: Man?

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on? Ja dude? Hey?

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Speaker 4: Man? Two questions?

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Speaker 13: First question, when are you going to have that Tom

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Coom single come out on iTunes? So I can I

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can listen to a while I'm working?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess you're downloaded. Now nobody seems to like

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that song. That's my least popular cringe course song.

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Speaker 3: But I'm glad you're all right.

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Speaker 4: Second question, I kind of went down a rabbit hole.

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Speaker 13: So I've always been raised as a Christian Southern Baptist,

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kind of got out of the church, dabbled in things

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here and there with like listening to stuff you do.

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But I went down a rabbit hole about Israel not

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being like, well, the Jews in Israel not being God's

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chosen any longer because they gave that up when they

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crucified Him and forsake him and denied the Kingdom of Heaven.

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And the Christians are the new Israel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just said multiple times in New Testament Clarer's day.

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Speaker 13: Is that like the case is like, is that how

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it's being twisted that we should like go along with

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Israel because their.

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Speaker 2: God's chose what was called covenant theology. So people have

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this idea that somehow the promise of the having it

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to Abraham or to Moses was only in reference to

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a historical nation of Israel, which that's one element of it.

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But if you read Galatians three, it's very clear that

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the seed capital s that fulfills the promise to Abraham

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and Genesis twelve, fifteen, twenty two, and seventeen and twenty

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two is the capital seed.

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Speaker 3: Messiah, he is the ma seed.

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Speaker 2: Excuse he is the seed, and then everyone that's in

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him is by extension the seed. Romans four and Galatians

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three argue this clear as day, which there should be

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no debate about it. And the other point is that

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the nation state of Israel is divorced in the New

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Testament clear as day, citing texts like Hoseiah and the

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Book of Revelation and Jesus's prophecies about the seventy eighty

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destruction of the temple in the Book of Hebrews.

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Speaker 13: Okay, wow, I'm gonna go back and listen to that explanation.

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But it just seems really strange, like I've been told

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one thing and just follow along.

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Speaker 2: What well. Jeremiah thirty one, He says that this new

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covenant will be unlike the Mosaic Covenant. So where is

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this new covenant? What is this new covenant? Wherein the

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law will be placed on everyone's heart, wherein the gentiles

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will turn to the Messiah, There will be gentile priests,

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there will be incense offered all throughout the world to God,

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as according to Malachi one. All these prophecies, and when

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Paul and Romans fifteen cites multiple places in the Psalms

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where it predicts a gentile church, Paul says, that's the church.

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The church is the fulfillment of those Messianic promises in

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the Book of Psalms that talk about the gentiles worshiping

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the God of Israel. So these are not in times

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into the world predictions of a premillennial kingdom. They're the

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church that was set up historically. And this is the

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giant blind spot that all the Evangelicals and Protestants have.

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They don't understand that the church is the kingdom, and

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it's the Orthodox Church, the one in history that was

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set up in the first century. It's not an end

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times thing that is yet to come. He left, Donnie.

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Speaker 14: I'm mute, Donnie, I'm mute.

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Speaker 2: Donnie discerned. We're waiting on you, man, what's up? Go ahead?

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Speaker 10: Hello?

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Speaker 15: Hello, Hey, Sorry, I was having you a littleish.

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Speaker 10: I couldn't hear anything.

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Speaker 15: How's it going, Uh, Jay, very good to finally be

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able to talk to you.

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Speaker 10: I know you had me blocked for a little while.

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Speaker 15: I wasn't really sure I had seen some of your stuff.

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I like a lot of the stuff you say, but

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I did have a couple of questions for you regarding

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this topic. So I just for some background, I would

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not consider myself a dispensationalist, a supporter of the government

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or the nation of Israel in its apostates state, but

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I definitely want to see get a feel for what

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your view is about I guess the eschatological nature of

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this topic. And the first question is, would you say

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that Israel's blindness is temporary, that you know it's part

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of God's plan for the gentiles? Like, would you say

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that Israel's blindness is temporary?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what Paul's teaching in Romans eleven.

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And at some point whenever the schatological you know, in

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times are Paul predicts a conversion of the Jews in

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mass in some way.

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Speaker 10: Okay, okay, we would agree with that.

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Speaker 15: My next question would be, do you believe that it

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was God's sovereignty that led to Israel scattering and that

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you know and that this the regathering of the tribes

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of Israel and Judah in nineteen forty eight, was part

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of God's plan was under God's sovereignty.

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Speaker 2: Well, everything is under God's sovereignty. But whether that is

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necessarily some fulfillment of biblical prophecies, I don't know about that.

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I mean that remains to be seen, depending upon what happens.

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But I don't think that there's any promise to a

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secular nation state that is in some way a dual

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covenant theology.

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Speaker 15: Yeah, I would definitely disagree and disavow with dual covenant theology.

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I don't really know many people that actually hold to

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dual Covenant that say that there's a separate covenant for Israel.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean a lot of dispensationalists do.

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Speaker 15: I would say, I would, Yeah, you're probably right. I

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haven't really heard that set a lot the dual covenant theology.

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Every every dispensationalist that I talked to, they say that

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they reject that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean most, I mean the last two days

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of debates that we've had with people, almost almost all

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of them who come in here defending that position believe

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that the Abrahamic Covenant is specifically still in force for

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the Jews.

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Speaker 16: Okay, would you say that in the in the end times,

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would you agree that the nations unite against the City

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of Jerusalem before Christ returns to reigns.

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Speaker 2: Now, the New Testament city of Jerusalem is the church,

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Paul makes that clear. Galatians four.

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Speaker 15: Are you talking about New Jerusalem? Are you talking about.

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Speaker 2: If that is the church in Galatians four, which is

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a present reality, which is the Orthodox Church?

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Speaker 10: Okay?

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Speaker 15: So you wouldn't make a distinction between the millennial kingdom

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and Revelation twenty and the eternal state in New Jerusalem

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and twenty one.

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Speaker 3: Now the Church is the kingdom, as Jesus says at

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Matthew sixteen.

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Speaker 15: So you have a more of a millennialist view on this.

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Speaker 2: Where my favor post millennialism, but many Orthodox are also omil.

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Speaker 15: Okay, So you would say that Christ is currently reigning

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right now in the ultimate sense.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think anybody believes. Anybody believes in the

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ultimate sense because the resurrection and the Great White Throne

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judgment haven't happened. But if you look at every reference

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in the New Testament to Psalm one ten instead of

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my right hand until it make your.

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Speaker 3: Enemies your footstool, what do you think that's a reference to.

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Speaker 15: The Millennial king The millennial kingdom would be no.

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Speaker 2: No time in the New Testament is referenced in regard

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to some specific redemptive historical event in the New Testament,

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which one?

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Speaker 10: What was the question?

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Speaker 2: Every time Psalm one ten is cited in the New Testament,

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for the most part, sit in my right hand until

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I make your enemies your foot stool, it's a reference.

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Speaker 15: Sorry, sorry, yes, yes, yes, yes, right hand?

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Speaker 10: So so so when so?

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Speaker 2: When? So?

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Speaker 10: When God? So?

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Speaker 15: When God makes the the world Jesus footstool.

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Speaker 10: You don't believe that that's I'm asking.

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Speaker 3: You a question. You're not listening. I'm not trying to

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me mean.

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Speaker 2: But again, every time that Psalm one ten in the

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New Testament is cited, when it's when the New Testament

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writers cite that psalm about sit in my right hand

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till I make your enemies your footstool, they reference it

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in regard to a specific New Testament event. It's the ascension, right,

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The ascension happened in the Book of Acts. Okay, so

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the ascension is when he begins to reign. That's why

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Daniel seven is a prophecy of his ascension. Sit at

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my right hand, the Father's right hand in heaven. And

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Daniel seven, he's given authority over all tribes, songs, and nations.

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In the Book of Revelation when John sees into Revelation

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in the first four or five, when he sees the

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Lamb in heaven, that's when the Lamb is given authority

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over all tribes, tongues.

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Speaker 3: And nations. That's the ascension. It's not the other world.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 15: I agree that Christ is reigning in an already sense,

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but there's also a not yet sense where she will reign.

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Speaker 2: That's we agree with that.

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Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the already that is the Kingdom, is the Church.

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And that's why Matthew sixteen he says to Peter, you

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are the rock upon which I will build my church,

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and he says, I will give you the keys to

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the kingdom. Yeah, equating the Church to the kingdom.

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Speaker 10: So it's not y, Yeah, I would I would agree

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that because.

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Speaker 15: Well, I would say that the body of believers, as

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Christ price is the head and the body of believers

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and make up obviously his body.

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Speaker 3: Christ have a visible body or does he have an

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invisible body?

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Speaker 15: Does Christ have a visible body or an invisible body? Yeah, sir,

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it's a spiritual it's a it's spiritual in the already

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sense where the body of believing believing Christians make our.

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Speaker 3: Own body, his actual body when he's walking.

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Speaker 15: Around his body, when he was walking around. Yeah, I

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mean he he was, he was, he.

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Speaker 10: Was yes, right, right, Okay, is it one?

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Speaker 2: Is it one?

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Speaker 10: Is it one?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 15: Yeah, we are one with the body like That's why

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when you know, when when Jesus asked Aul, you're.

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Speaker 2: Missing my point though I'm saying. What I'm pointing out

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is that the singular visible structure of the Body of

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Christ is identical to the historical singular visible.

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Speaker 3: Structure of the body of the Body of Christ.

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Speaker 2: That's why Paul equates the church to the continuation of

475
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:13,319
the incarnation and the body. He says in First Corinthians.

476
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,640
Is Christ divided? He says in Ephesians. There's one Lord,

477
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,359
one body, one faith, one baptism. So the Body of Christ,

478
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,279
the Church cannot be divided. Therefore it is not existing

479
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:28,920
amongst thirty thousand different sects.

480
00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,279
Speaker 15: I think the thirty thousand numbers a bit exaggerated. I

481
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,839
think Mike Winger did a did a video about that

482
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,519
where that's based off of a lot of Okay, Well.

483
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,799
Speaker 3: Whether it's five thousand or thirty thousand doesn't matter.

484
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:44,279
Speaker 15: Well, I would say I would say that, you know,

485
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,200
so would you say that only the Orthodox people who

486
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,920
are members of the Orthodox Church would inherit the Kingdom

487
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,440
of God? Yes, I would really disagree with you there,

488
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,640
But that's okay, that's not really the direction.

489
00:31:57,799 --> 00:31:59,119
Speaker 3: Well, how many bodies does Christ have?

490
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 10: Though body?

491
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 15: But that doesn't mean that that that body is divided

492
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,319
among you know, denominations.

493
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 10: Right, I mean.

494
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: You have to believe it is.

495
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,319
Speaker 15: Well, it's it's about faith in Christ, right, you know,

496
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:14,920
it's about it's.

497
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:18,519
Speaker 3: About they have faith in Christ. But they're not trinitarian count.

498
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,799
Speaker 10: Well, of course not. But that's not measure.

499
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: What's the measure for heresy?

500
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 15: The measure for heresy would be something that contradicts the

501
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,799
clear teachings of scripture, like I would consider you know,

502
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,279
I would consider full I would consider full preterism of heresy.

503
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:38,880
Because they say that Christ already returned. I would say

504
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,039
that there's no normal say that denial of the Trinity

505
00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:44,240
is a heresy because again it's not.

506
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,799
Speaker 2: Where the doctor formulated the Doctor of the Trinity.

507
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:51,839
Speaker 15: Who formulated it I think it's less about who formulated it.

508
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,400
We can read it into the text. We can even

509
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400
read it in the Old Testament. We could see the

510
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,680
Trinity foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

511
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,359
Speaker 2: We don't need you're missing point. I'm talking about the

512
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:03,640
Second Ecumenical Council where they dogmatize the Doctor in the Trinity.

513
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,519
Speaker 15: And I believe the Holy Spirit was working through that,

514
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,279
But that doesn't mean that they're now the You know, so.

515
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: The Holy Spirit was working through them, but they were wrong.

516
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 15: The Holy Spirit works through a lot of people in error,

517
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,519
don't you know. We're we're still flawed, right, We're not.

518
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:18,720
We're not We're not.

519
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: Was it wrong when the church was determined?

520
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: The canon.

521
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 15: Was determining the canon? No I I I agree with

522
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:27,200
the canon.

523
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,839
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying was the Holy Spirit wrong? Was

524
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,319
it was to error?

525
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:34,039
Speaker 15: Why would the Holy Spirit be liable to error?

526
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 3: It's so the church is infallible.

527
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 10: No, I think you're missing my point.

528
00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:41,359
Speaker 3: When determined?

529
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 15: The point is it's less about.

530
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,799
Speaker 3: When was the canon determined?

531
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 10: Here's my point.

532
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: So you're not going to answer this question because it

533
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,119
would refew you. When is the Canada Scripture determined?

534
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,559
Speaker 15: I feel like you're trying to put me in these boxes,

535
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,319
and I just want to I just want because.

536
00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:56,759
Speaker 2: It's going to refute your presupposition.

537
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,079
Speaker 10: No, I think besition. Listen, I'm not a good not.

538
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: A debate tactic. It's the end of Protestantism.

539
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:05,079
Speaker 10: Okay.

540
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: Where was the canondi scripture.

541
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 15: Determined in three in three hundred, right.

542
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: Three hundred?

543
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 10: The canon?

544
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: What church?

545
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:15,079
Speaker 3: What church?

546
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: Father?

547
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,159
Speaker 3: Council in the year three hundred determined the candas scripture.

548
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,559
Speaker 10: The canon of scripture a council of I see it

549
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:22,079
wasn't that.

550
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't even know when nice it was. It's

551
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,880
three twenty five, yeah, around three hundred. And it didn't

552
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,000
it didn't determine the cannon. So you don't have anything

553
00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:30,880
any knowledge at the top.

554
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,559
Speaker 10: Listen. My point is this, don't we don't know.

555
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,199
Speaker 3: You don't have any knowledge of the topic.

556
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:37,159
Speaker 10: I I know about the council that I see it.

557
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:37,800
I knew that.

558
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:39,679
Speaker 2: Well, you didn't even know the date of the canon.

559
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,079
You didn't even know when it was.

560
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 15: I said around three hundred. I didn't say three hundred exactly.

561
00:34:46,480 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: I feel like, next up, Honey Badger, I'm mute, honeyback

562
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:09,400
on mute.

563
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:11,039
Speaker 17: I'm sorry.

564
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:13,639
Speaker 18: I didn't realize you called on me, you know. So

565
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,760
this is a great conversation. But at the same time,

566
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:20,400
I really don't like these debates so much because I

567
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,239
believe that we should try to love people into the

568
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,079
fullness of faith.

569
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 17: So just lay it there.

570
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,679
Speaker 18: And also, like when I kind of like when I

571
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,639
walked in, you know, and I saw the title evangelical,

572
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:35,159
why do you.

573
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: Think the debate is contrary to love?

574
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 18: When Paul apa, No, no, no, no, no, that's a that's a

575
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,280
very good point that you're right.

576
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,079
Speaker 2: So as a woman, you're just simply saying that you

577
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:46,480
don't get good feelings from it.

578
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,119
Speaker 18: So no, no, no, no, no, sir, that that's that's

579
00:35:49,159 --> 00:35:51,440
not what I mean at all. No, what I mean

580
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,360
is is that we like, we're here to love people

581
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,840
into the fullness of truth, you know what I mean.

582
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,079
Speaker 2: And so in other words, like, it's nothing contrary to

583
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:02,039
that in debating.

584
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,079
Speaker 3: So are you just here at home police, or do

585
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:05,800
you have an argument?

586
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 17: No, I'm not trying to tone police at all.

587
00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 3: You're literally tone police. What do you think that is?

588
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 19: No?

589
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 17: I actually like, please please hear what I'm saying.

590
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 18: Okay, So, first of all, you know, like where I

591
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:21,239
walked in, you know, you were kind of unpacking the

592
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,840
difference between Jews and Christians in general, right like that

593
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,519
that was what I heard. And so first and foremost

594
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:31,960
I would say, if we can get onto a foundational

595
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,440
moral principle or like a foundational Christian principle, is that

596
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,199
you know, the Jews were God's chosen people, but they

597
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,199
still had a choice moving forward.

598
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 4: After Jesus died.

599
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 17: Can we start there like you died and resurrected?

600
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,119
Speaker 18: In other words, so in other words, there is no

601
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:54,880
akin to Christianity, you know, like in terms of any

602
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,800
you know, like any Ebromic religion.

603
00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:01,519
Speaker 2: That's all infest to be a Catholic. But the Catholic

604
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:03,440
Church has changed that position. So which one?

605
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 20: You know?

606
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 17: Actually they have not, they have not at.

607
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: All they have. Have you read? You're going to keep interrupting.

608
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:12,599
This is why you don't want to debate. Have you read?

609
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 3: No, sir?

610
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 17: Yes I have. But but please let me.

611
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: About the Jews.

612
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 17: I'm trying to relate to you.

613
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,639
Speaker 3: I say, a debate stream and you're saying things that

614
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:23,119
are wrong.

615
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: What does say about the Jews?

616
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,039
Speaker 4: Okay, say about.

617
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 17: You, sir? If I can say what and I'll leave this.

618
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,599
Speaker 2: I will claim to have read it.

619
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 3: I will leave this, but you haven't read it.

620
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,519
Speaker 17: I will leave this. I will okay, I will leave

621
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:43,000
this with you.

622
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,599
Speaker 18: I try to understand people on their terms and then

623
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:47,679
give my best argument.

624
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,679
Speaker 21: I was trying to you didn't have an argument, you

625
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,679
claim no, I was trying to make a clown of yourself, Like.

626
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 18: I'm sorry, Like if you're not going to listen to

627
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,559
anything I say, I'm just saying.

628
00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 2: You're a drunk wine mom. I'm trying to argue that you.

629
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:03,039
Speaker 10: Are.

630
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,559
Speaker 17: You guys hearing this right now?

631
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,159
Speaker 2: Did you read at.

632
00:38:06,559 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 17: Hearing this right now? I'm not like serious.

633
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: Everybody's laughing at you.

634
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can insult me.

635
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 18: All you want to stand, you on your terms, and

636
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,760
all you have chosen to do is insult me.

637
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: You can't debate. Why are you debating?

638
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,639
Speaker 17: Well, you know what, you know what? God bless you, sir.

639
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:25,519
I thought we would have a good content and I

640
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:26,519
asked you a question.

641
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 18: But no you can't because you won't let me ask

642
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,800
you a question or even allow me to get to

643
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,639
know you. You're not even on the time and where

644
00:38:33,639 --> 00:38:36,920
you're coming from and appreciate you where you're coming.

645
00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:43,039
Speaker 17: From and then and then kind of understand by your

646
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:43,800
knowledge and wisdom.

647
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,559
Speaker 10: That's it. That's it.

648
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,039
Speaker 21: I'm sorry that sort of back to the phronsie Boss Jay,

649
00:38:49,079 --> 00:39:08,280
you know what, get out of here, Samson, I'm mute.

650
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:15,599
Speaker 2: Hello, Yes, all right.

651
00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 22: So if your position is that the Orthodox Church is

652
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,760
the only church, is it possible that there are people

653
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,320
in the church who are unsaved.

654
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a mixed multitude, as the parables say.

655
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 22: Okay, so there are it is possible to be in

656
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,159
the body of Christ and be unsaved.

657
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can be in the visible uh member, you

658
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,400
can be a visible participant in grace and lose that grace.

659
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,599
So the aschatological reality will will remove all of the

660
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,480
people who don't have the vestiments. It's like the parable

661
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:59,519
of the the marriage Peace, where Jesus removes all those

662
00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:00,760
who do not have the garment.

663
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 22: Okay, So so you're not in the church if you're

664
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:05,760
not saved.

665
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I answered your question. This is too stupid.

666
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,199
Speaker 22: Well no, I just I justin.

667
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: He's the dude that wanted to come to debate.

668
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: Where do you go.

669
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: Tectonic la Hello.

670
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:47,119
Speaker 23: Yeah, yeah, I have a neighbor who is a secular.

671
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,159
Speaker 2: Guy, But.

672
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 10: How do I say this?

673
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 23: When that thing in October happened in twenty twenty three,

674
00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:00,440
he was quite inflamed, and he's like a bench Shapiro

675
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:01,400
Jordan Peterson.

676
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,519
Speaker 3: Guy, where does that come from?

677
00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:05,519
Speaker 2: He's not even Christian.

678
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about.

679
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: October of twenty twenty three, yeah, October seventh.

680
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah.

681
00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 23: So you know, like, if you're a Christian, you know

682
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:19,519
it could be understandable that you could fall into the

683
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:21,320
trap of Christian Zionism.

684
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 4: But he's secular.

685
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:23,159
Speaker 2: What is this?

686
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 10: He was, like I said, he was very inflamed when

687
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:27,320
it happened.

688
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: Okay, what is it?

689
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: What's the.

690
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: Well? I don't know what your what their point is? Man?

691
00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 3: Dan, what's up?

692
00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:59,079
Speaker 19: I'm mean, yeah, I.

693
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 11: Think at all the Orthodox churches are the same, like

694
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:05,440
Coptic or Ethiopian Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox?

695
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:06,119
Speaker 2: Is it all?

696
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 3: No, they're not. No, No, they're not.

697
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:17,559
Speaker 2: Okay, it's just wondering, so what, like, what's your position

698
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:22,760
on that? Is there one that's theologically wrong or Rememberical

699
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,920
Orthodox Catholic Church there's only one of those? Okay that

700
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,760
that was my question.

701
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 24: Shown I can't hear anything I'm gonna leave and rejoin

702
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:49,840
if anybody.

703
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:50,519
Speaker 3: You can't hear me.

704
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,039
Speaker 25: Oh, no, I can hear it now, weird, Go ahead. Yeah,

705
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,599
Like I said last time, I'm a big fan. I

706
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:00,800
am a big fan of yours. But I'm not as

707
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,639
well studied as you and most of the people talking here,

708
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,079
so you can correct me here.

709
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,159
Speaker 2: But I have questions about.

710
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:15,159
Speaker 25: The links between Vatican to John Paul the Second and

711
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:19,079
then the Cold War. You have to in my understanding.

712
00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:22,760
I know, I know what you do, but that's why

713
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,280
I'm asking you. But I would in my understanding of things,

714
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:29,719
not being informed otherwise by you, which you will inform

715
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,199
me now of. But otherwise I would understand it to

716
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,400
be a part of the Cold War. I would understand

717
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,079
that John Paul the Second was a part of the

718
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,920
deep state in so many ways. Or the year of Letter,

719
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,400
the years of Letter or whatever, and the Italians speak,

720
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,199
and there is a reason for why we let that

721
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:53,880
non Italian guy in.

722
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:02,679
Speaker 2: Otherwise. Yeah, I've done talk to this. What about it? Oh,

723
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,079
I've never heard those parts of it, So I'm sorry,

724
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:09,480
that's funny. I don't to apologize. I'm just telling you that. Yeah,

725
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:12,039
we're I'm familiar with it. The audience probably isn't familiar

726
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:16,400
with that. But anything else could you speak about?

727
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:16,559
Speaker 19: What?

728
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: Why? Why?

729
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:23,639
Speaker 25: We obviously was the geopolitical strategic position to it.

730
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,639
Speaker 2: And went off has an entire eight hundred page book

731
00:44:26,639 --> 00:44:31,039
on it called Timeline Magazine, John Courtney Murray and the

732
00:44:31,079 --> 00:44:34,000
American Proposition. It's about the doctrinal warfare.

733
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,679
Speaker 3: Program is a book called the Doctrinal war.

734
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 26: The book is called what. I just listed it as

735
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:50,280
what's up? Justin Hello, Yeah, what's okay?

736
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:50,559
Speaker 2: Sorry?

737
00:44:50,559 --> 00:44:51,559
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to immute.

738
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 27: This is my first basis, Like questions, does the Bible

739
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,400
talk mentioned h denominations?

740
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:58,639
Speaker 3: You know?

741
00:44:58,719 --> 00:44:59,639
Speaker 2: And where did that come from?

742
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:00,079
Speaker 3: Do you know?

743
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: I don't know too much about it? Like why is one?

744
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:04,920
Why is Catholic?

745
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,519
Speaker 27: Protestant? Why are these?

746
00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: Why is Christianity divided?

747
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,519
Speaker 3: So why isn't it just it's not divided?

748
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: The only authentic Christianity is the Orthodox Church because it's

749
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,239
the same theology and teaching of the first thousand years

750
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,239
of Christianity. So where are the other ones come from?

751
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,119
Are they all like Satanic? I mean well, I mean

752
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:26,559
the Roman Catholic Church split from the Orthodox Church in

753
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:29,719
ten fifty four and all those crazy groups split from

754
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,719
the Roman Catholic Church, Protestant split, so it just kind

755
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:35,199
of goes.

756
00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:39,639
Speaker 27: From there because we got Lutheran all these So I

757
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,119
was raised in the Worldwide Church. You God, I don't

758
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:44,239
know if you're familiar with that one, but it's basically like.

759
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,599
Speaker 3: They used to be anti Trinitarian. They believed in.

760
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: Garner Ted Armstrong's anti Trinitarian British Israelite theory.

761
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: Yeah it's a cult. Yeah, I think so too.

762
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 27: So yeah, we weren't allowed to celebrate holidays, and we

763
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,639
couldn't eat pork and all this Old Testament and it's

764
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:03,320
just like, as I got older, I just felt like

765
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,559
this doesn't make any sense, right. Plus my dad's a

766
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:07,760
preacher in that and beat the shit out of us

767
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,639
and my mom and everything else, and so I kind

768
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:11,599
of shied away from it.

769
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 10: But it was like.

770
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 27: I was just always wondering how it got so fractured,

771
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,719
and how do you think we could just bring it

772
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,360
back together to we just fucking get along, because if

773
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,519
we don't learn to get along all right?

774
00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: So again again, well, like I said, the Orthodox Church

775
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,079
is the true church, So there is no like creating

776
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:34,199
a new superchurch that blends all the churches to get along.

777
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,239
Like people have to come to the ORTHORX church. That's

778
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:44,119
the only way out. Barrabas, Oh my gosh, sure we

779
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:48,199
go another judios in heretic? What's up?

780
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 3: Its literally names of Barabbas? Are you there?

781
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,199
Speaker 2: We can't hear you.

782
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:19,559
Speaker 3: Can here? You did, Samuel, I'm you.

783
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 2: I love Jada. Are you doing.

784
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 28: How's everything?

785
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:25,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

786
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 28: Everything as well? I'm gonna sure if you were calling me.

787
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:31,039
We had a fascinating discussion about your your epistemic foundation,

788
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:33,599
I think, with you and father and a nice about

789
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:34,440
two three months ago.

790
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,199
Speaker 3: I begarly remember that.

791
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 28: Yeah, yeah, indeed, I had one to ask, what is

792
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,320
your position on natural theology? Do you reject in totality?

793
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,760
Do you believe they are epistemically deducible truths they are

794
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:49,880
embedded with in reality?

795
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you could go watch the Trent Horn debate

796
00:47:54,119 --> 00:47:57,280
for my views on that. I don't have the energy

797
00:47:57,519 --> 00:47:59,960
right now to stay at all those points in that argument.

798
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: Okay, sure, but no I don't believe in natural theology.

799
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 2: Okay, sure.

800
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,039
Speaker 28: I want to ask what would be your definition, or

801
00:48:11,079 --> 00:48:14,760
at least, how would you differentiate between properly basic or

802
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:15,719
non basic belief.

803
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think there's a lot of debate about

804
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,960
those positions. They, I mean, people who are foundationalists kind

805
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,800
of accept the common idea as to what properly basic,

806
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,280
proper basicality is. They think that there's some form of

807
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,880
self evidence. But since I don't believe in that, what

808
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,679
does it matter? What how I would define them?

809
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,519
Speaker 28: Okay, I had just been mildly curious. I reviewed that debate,

810
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:46,360
and thanks for having me.

811
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not trying to be rude.

812
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:49,119
Speaker 2: It's just I don't like, I don't have the energy

813
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:53,119
to go into like no, it's reversing all the that

814
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:55,320
type of stuff when it's not really the topic tonight.

815
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 3: Mean, you got on you.

816
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: Hello.

817
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,079
Speaker 29: So I just had a Unitarian tell me that Christ

818
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:13,039
says that the Father is greater than him. How do

819
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:13,960
you respond to that?

820
00:49:16,119 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we responded to that probably five hundred

821
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,039
times in all the Muslim debates and interactions that you

822
00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:24,639
can find online. Something can be greater in different types,

823
00:49:24,679 --> 00:49:28,920
in different senses. So Christ's father, God, the Father is

824
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,280
greater in role because the Father is the found cause

825
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,840
and source within the Godhead.

826
00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 3: He is greater in that sense.

827
00:49:36,519 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 2: But he's not greater in a metaphysical sense, just like

828
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,719
a father is a cause of his son, but that

829
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,960
doesn't mean that his son has any more or less

830
00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:46,920
human nature than his father. So just as a son

831
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:52,559
can be subordinate to and obey his father, it doesn't

832
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:56,280
follow that the son therefore is ontologically or metaphysically less

833
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,400
than his father. So all anti Trinitarian arguments hinge on

834
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:05,280
greater necessarily being some metaphysical claim.

835
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:06,639
Speaker 29: That makes perfect sense.

836
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:24,039
Speaker 2: Thanks Nina, you have to do you?

837
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 30: Did you call on me?

838
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am, what's up?

839
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 10: Thank you?

840
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:33,559
Speaker 30: Hi Jay, I have two questions for you. My first

841
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:36,920
question is do you believe that Catholics are heretics? And

842
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,119
I'll listen to your response. And my second question is

843
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,760
do you believe that there will ever be a possibility

844
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,480
of union between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern

845
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:46,519
Orthodox Churches?

846
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 10: Thank you.

847
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:54,679
Speaker 2: I believe that Catholicism is a heterodox religion and profession.

848
00:50:55,519 --> 00:50:59,760
It's a parachurch, Paris Synagogue. It does not have the

849
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:02,639
race that it pretends to have. But I don't make

850
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,719
judgments on every individual Catholic because we're not told people's

851
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,719
individual salvation or destiny. But we can judge in the

852
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:14,199
public sphere a confession of some entity like the Catholic

853
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:21,519
Church same way I would say a Protestant profession as heterodox.

854
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 30: Okay. And secondly, what is your opinion on the hopeful

855
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,719
reunion and reconciliation between the two as John Paul the

856
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,880
second said, the Eastern and Western lungs of the church.

857
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it doesn't make any sense because the

858
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:44,599
Eastern Catholic Church, Eastern Catholics of the Uniates, do not

859
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:49,719
profess many ecumenical councils that the Roman Church says to

860
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,679
be dogmatic. And yet the Roman Church has accepted all

861
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,880
these people as saints and as the alert as even

862
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,400
people who were died in schism like Gregory and Nerek

863
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,119
who was an Armenian schismatic, like suddenly they're now saints

864
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,960
when they died in schism And so these all prove

865
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:14,639
to me that the Roman Caloity Church's confession and theology

866
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:18,320
is contradictory and evolves. And know, the Orthodox Church could

867
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,679
never accept some sort of mediating halfway position because we

868
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,000
don't believe that the Orthodox Church ever lost the faith.

869
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 30: Thank you very much for answering my questions. I would

870
00:52:29,039 --> 00:52:30,760
love to ask more questions in the future.

871
00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:32,519
Speaker 3: Well, you can ask them now if you want.

872
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 2: Oh well, everyone else has been pretty unruly, so I

873
00:52:37,519 --> 00:52:41,239
appreciate what are the questions.

874
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 30: We have the same sacraments, correct, the Catholics and the Orthodox.

875
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,079
Speaker 2: Well, I mean loosely speaking, we have the same loose

876
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:55,599
number of them, right, but not necessarily the same views exactly.

877
00:52:55,679 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 30: So I was going to ask you what your view

878
00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:00,360
is of the necessity of the sacrament of reconciliation and

879
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,000
confession before receiving the Euchrist.

880
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,039
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean this is not a position that

881
00:53:07,079 --> 00:53:09,639
differs between Orthodox and Catholics.

882
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,159
Speaker 30: Yes, okay, thank you. I thought that was true. Also,

883
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:17,159
in terms of your marital sacrament, how would you view

884
00:53:17,639 --> 00:53:25,639
the overall theology that differentiates Orthodox from Catholics.

885
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: Again, there are commonalities there because we do, loosely speaking,

886
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:35,119
share the first thousand years of Christianity. But I think

887
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:41,039
that eventually the Roman system, for example, began to detegrade

888
00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:45,519
marriage when they started forbidding married priests, which they always

889
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:51,159
accepted until after Trollo. So after the Seventh Council, the

890
00:53:51,199 --> 00:53:57,360
West begins to forbid there to be married priests. We

891
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,000
think it's a huge mistake that the West stopped giving

892
00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:05,039
infants communion anyway. But that's not about marriage. We would

893
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:09,639
say that the Canons of Saint Basil, which the papacy

894
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:15,079
for many centuries accepted, allow for the Orthodox position for remarriage.

895
00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:18,320
It's not a license to do it in any case.

896
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,199
There's certain strictures and canonical limits to that. But we

897
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,920
think the Roman position developed on that as well.

898
00:54:26,199 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 30: I really appreciate your time, Thank you. I don't want

899
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,800
to take up all the time. I'll free someone else up.

900
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,719
Go ahead, George, nice to meet you.

901
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,079
Speaker 4: Jay uh huh.

902
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 3: Likewise, cut talk.

903
00:54:50,639 --> 00:54:52,559
Speaker 2: Now. See that was a Roman caln woman who was

904
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:56,960
civil and a pleasure to talk to the half drunk,

905
00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:06,119
phronsial woman in here earlier was insane. Go ahead, katok, Hey,

906
00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:06,639
how you doing?

907
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:07,679
Speaker 3: What's up?

908
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: Man? Do you think questions? So let me make it quick.

909
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 31: Do you think Christianity will ever come to owning the

910
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,800
leadership of a state like it's used to, or would

911
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,400
it just remain confined to an institution called church.

912
00:55:27,519 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 2: I don't know that the church ever owned a state,

913
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,239
but I think that you can't have Orthodox Christian states.

914
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 3: Again, sure.

915
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: In what context?

916
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 31: Not an ownership, but owning a state to lead a

917
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:41,239
group of people.

918
00:55:42,519 --> 00:55:44,119
Speaker 3: Again, I don't know what you mean owning a state.

919
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,199
Speaker 2: I mean again, have been confessional church state relationships for

920
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,639
the majority of Christian history, so yes, there could be

921
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,360
Christian kingdoms again, but that doesn't mean that the Church

922
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,440
owns the state. There are two if you are you

923
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:04,000
familiar with the double headed business the symbol, no, it's

924
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:07,159
a classic symbol of Byzantium, and the two headed eagles

925
00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:10,840
symbolizes church and state working together in what we call

926
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,360
symphonia or harmony. So that's the ideal setting, but it

927
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:26,199
doesn't mean the Church owns the state. Okay, thank you, yes, Chris.

928
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 32: I mean, man, hey, guys, So I had a question

929
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,840
dovetailing off that Roman Catholic lady who was really nice.

930
00:56:39,039 --> 00:56:41,960
I grew up Roman Catholic. I'm no longer a Catholic,

931
00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:45,000
but I'm searching. I'm searching for an Orthodox order church.

932
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:46,960
But either way, I want to know how to defeat

933
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,639
the Catholics on the concept of Mary and how they

934
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:55,559
went off the rails with Christophany by not recognizing it

935
00:56:55,639 --> 00:56:59,360
being logos. So I just there's any points I could

936
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,079
have to you know, have to fight Catholics back on.

937
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:04,519
Speaker 10: Why their Mary worship is just so bogus.

938
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: It would just be helpful in some of my discourses.

939
00:57:08,639 --> 00:57:10,840
I mean, I did a video that's about forty minutes

940
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,119
where I went through just the entire biblical argumentation for

941
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,559
the Orthodox position on Mary. I think the Roman Catholic

942
00:57:18,639 --> 00:57:21,960
position in the last several centuries has just gotten into

943
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:27,679
a lot of speculations and introduced new terms like co redemptrics,

944
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:30,320
which can have a lot of things read into it.

945
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,800
So I don't know. I mean, I do think that

946
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,800
they go crazy with it, but I think ultimately it's

947
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,960
because they end up departing from the Orthodox tradition on Mary.

948
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:46,280
For example, they exempt her from the effects of original

949
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:50,599
sin when the feast in the Orthodox Church, which even

950
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:53,159
the Eastern Catholic celebrat, is called the feast of dormition

951
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,280
of the version, which means that she died or she

952
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,320
went to sleep. Well, if she died, then she was

953
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,440
not free from the effects of Adam's fall. So I

954
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,719
think that those are some examples of where the Roman

955
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,920
position kind of goes crazy with it. And also you'll

956
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,599
notice the Roman Catholic Church in the last several centuries,

957
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,559
especially in the West, has deviated over into this extreme

958
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:23,000
form of obsessing and relying on supposed Marian apparitions, many

959
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,639
of which are totally pedadox.

960
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 33: Yeah, and so yeah, I'm the feast of the door mission.

961
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,280
I I've heard, I have heard some of your stuff

962
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:30,559
on that.

963
00:58:30,719 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 2: Right.

964
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,159
Speaker 33: So you're saying the Catholics extreme emphasis on her lack

965
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,800
of sin or you know, her inability to sin, whereas

966
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,559
I think the orcandox position is clearer that it makes

967
00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:45,039
role Mary's roles the theotokos, the bearer of the divine logos,

968
00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:45,760
more compelling.

969
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 3: Sure, go ahead, fodin.

970
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 34: So I was like our father Russell here always says

971
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:59,880
in Orthodox she she's not the great exception, she's the

972
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,800
great example. And that just kind of summarizes it all,

973
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,280
doesn't it.

974
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 2: I love it.

975
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:04,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

976
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,639
Speaker 33: The Greek word, right, theo toko is a home of

977
00:59:07,679 --> 00:59:09,320
God or like I don't know if I'm on that

978
00:59:09,559 --> 00:59:11,960
house in God, like the home the dwelling place of

979
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,199
the womb. That's what the logos was incarnate, not her,

980
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,320
not like it was just she was her womb was chosen.

981
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 2: Now, but we do think that she was raised to

982
00:59:19,559 --> 00:59:22,440
be Queen of Heaven all of the forty five and

983
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,639
Revelation twelve. So if you look at song forty five,

984
00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:27,159
you'll see the queen stands next to the king and

985
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:29,760
the gold of Ofiir. We think that's Mary the Queen Mother.

986
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,159
And that's a Messianic psalm. So that's an important thing

987
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:34,960
to understand that we do not have a low view

988
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,280
of Mary, but we don't have the extreme view that

989
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:38,360
Roman Catholics.

990
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 34: And we do believe she's sinless in terms of her

991
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:51,360
will and actions that even prior to the conception that

992
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:55,159
she said yes. And that's why I said, she's the

993
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:58,079
great example not.

994
01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:02,079
Speaker 2: Uh what was the word I used?

995
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 34: I can't remember the rule.

996
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 33: Almost she's not it's not she's the example.

997
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 34: Of Yeah, she's the great uh not exception, right, as

998
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:16,159
if she was given almost a different type of nature

999
01:00:16,239 --> 01:00:19,800
that she couldn't sin. But she's one of us, and

1000
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,360
she's the great example in which she said yes to

1001
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:30,360
God and everything, all her actions and and will, and

1002
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:31,920
so that that's a big difference.

1003
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 33: Well, what doesn't sit right with me is so at

1004
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,159
my I was married in a Catholic church or nine

1005
01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:39,800
years ago, and the priest asked my wife and I

1006
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,480
if we wanted to have a statuette and a blessing

1007
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:46,280
to the Fatima, to our lady of Fatima. And I

1008
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,159
had no idea what that was at the time. Obviously

1009
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:50,239
I learned a lot, but like so basically I had

1010
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,119
a prayer and something going on at my marriage ceremony

1011
01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:55,960
for maryan apparition that I had no idea about. So

1012
01:00:56,039 --> 01:00:58,199
that's what like heightened my level to it. Looking back

1013
01:00:58,239 --> 01:01:00,760
at some of the stuff I participated in not being aware,

1014
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,159
and I was just like, what the hell is this?

1015
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:08,079
Speaker 3: So thank you guys. Yeah, good questions.

1016
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 34: Jay, When you all the kind of fanaticism and fascination

1017
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,719
with all the apparitions began.

1018
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's the eighteenth No, it's a no, no, No,

1019
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,920
it's wharer than that. I mean, it's really began after

1020
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:30,480
the Schism, because you have a lot of Renaissance and

1021
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:35,280
Medieval era monastics, especially the Franciscans, who start having in

1022
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,400
this extreme emphasis on the visions. You've got a whole

1023
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,920
bunch in France, You've got a whole bunch in Ireland

1024
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:45,599
over the last several centuries. So no, I don't think

1025
01:01:45,639 --> 01:01:48,400
it's a I think it's a of several I mean

1026
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,599
even Michael Jones says that the prevalence of the apparitions

1027
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:54,360
in the West the last five hundred years is a

1028
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,000
sign of the feminization of the church in the West.

1029
01:01:57,679 --> 01:02:04,199
Point Yeah, uh, who are we not going to here, Jacob?

1030
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 3: I'm mute, Jacob, you gotta I mute?

1031
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 2: Yoh Jay? What's up?

1032
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 35: Yes, sir, Hey, wanting to say that I listened to

1033
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,960
your Sopranos analysis and I really enjoyed it, especially the impressions.

1034
01:02:30,599 --> 01:02:33,119
Speaker 2: Thank you that that one seems to be a favorite

1035
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:34,360
of the movie TV buff.

1036
01:02:35,679 --> 01:02:36,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of fun.

1037
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 35: Okay, So I would like, I'm a Protestant, would like

1038
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,159
to offer a syllogism and then have you critique it.

1039
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,119
Speaker 2: Okay, Well we have a philosopher here too, so he

1040
01:02:48,159 --> 01:02:54,280
can help. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's you. Oh okay.

1041
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 35: So it's having to do with predestination. So God knows

1042
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:08,639
all things. Some people are damned inevitably, therefore God predestined.

1043
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. The mistake is assuming that the knowledge of the thing,

1044
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,159
knowing the thing makes God the cause of it. So

1045
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,719
the analogy is missing the belief in secondary causes, which

1046
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:27,920
is central to Christian theology. Okay, Also I.

1047
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,639
Speaker 34: Would say two, there's uh, there's a category category air

1048
01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:36,920
in terms of time and the applying chronological time in

1049
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:41,679
human categories to God. So when we say pre right

1050
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,719
or post, these are chronological categories that really don't exist

1051
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,760
for God. Sam Augustine says, He's an eternal now. So

1052
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,320
this is ties to Jay's point. The reason why you

1053
01:03:54,320 --> 01:04:00,480
can say predestines and he knows is because he seen

1054
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:04,199
you do it in his now. There's no pre or

1055
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,639
post for God the way it is for us. So

1056
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:12,480
therefore he allows us to determine his knowledge because he's there,

1057
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:16,880
present with us. And so notice it doesn't say predetermined,

1058
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,039
it says predestined. That just means there's a destiny goal

1059
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:24,880
which God knows, but it doesn't imply, as Jake pointed out,

1060
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,280
the knowledge of that therefore is the cause of that.

1061
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,639
So within that there's a lot of kind of category

1062
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,000
errors and confusions in terms of the of the terms

1063
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:34,559
and concepts.

1064
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:39,119
Speaker 2: You're reason If I know that my neighbors are, you know,

1065
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:41,480
planning to go rob a bank, and then they go

1066
01:04:41,519 --> 01:04:45,639
and do it, my knowing of that does not make

1067
01:04:45,719 --> 01:04:48,000
me the cause of it. And that's just an analogy

1068
01:04:48,039 --> 01:04:50,880
obviously that would make me, I guess, a collaborator. But

1069
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,840
for the sake of the analogy, like, it doesn't mean

1070
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,960
that I'm the direct cause because I have knowledge of it,

1071
01:04:58,079 --> 01:05:02,920
or you know, or by the accident, by that measure anything, right,

1072
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:07,400
So it's the analogy confusedes like many Calvinist positions do,

1073
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,719
the knowing of a thing with me and the direct

1074
01:05:10,719 --> 01:05:13,239
cause of the thing. So the decree of God is

1075
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:18,960
not the is not the source of every single event exactly.

1076
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:20,159
I was just going to say.

1077
01:05:20,239 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 34: Also, notice that what's implicit in the premises and the

1078
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:32,239
kind of the framing of that syllogism is occasionally yeah,

1079
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,719
so there's a lot of errors that are that are

1080
01:05:34,719 --> 01:05:35,639
implicit within.

1081
01:05:37,199 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 2: Why did you call it? He's saying that it could

1082
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:46,400
lead to the Calvinist and Islamic position of occasionalism. Occasionalism

1083
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,039
is a position that there's no secondary causes and that

1084
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:52,320
God is the direct cause of every single event. In fact,

1085
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:56,840
it's so extreme that not even one thing causes another thing.

1086
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,280
So in other words, one billiard ball hitting another billiard

1087
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:05,119
ball literally has no direct connection or correlation. Occasionalists believe

1088
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:08,559
that at every second God is destroying and recreating the world,

1089
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:14,199
and that removes all forms of secondary causation. So, for example,

1090
01:06:14,239 --> 01:06:18,159
Jonathan Edwards, the famous Calvinist, was an occasionalist, and most

1091
01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:32,159
Sunia Muslims are occasionalists. Also, Calvinism destroys Christology, and so

1092
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:35,280
if you become a hardcore Calvinist, you will not be

1093
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,360
able to maintain the two wills, too energies and two

1094
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,199
natures in Christ and so you have to end up

1095
01:06:40,199 --> 01:06:43,079
in some kind of monothelitism or monoargism.

1096
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 34: Also knowledge, knowledge and truth, because if you think about

1097
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,880
their arguments and their positions exactly the same as a

1098
01:06:54,920 --> 01:07:01,199
determinist materialist, in which case, if everything simply caused by

1099
01:07:01,239 --> 01:07:07,599
God in order to preserve his sovereignty, then there's nothing

1100
01:07:07,679 --> 01:07:08,639
true or false.

1101
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,559
Speaker 3: They're just events.

1102
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 34: And second of all, anybody that knows anything knows that

1103
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:22,159
even if you could get to truth, if you could

1104
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:26,400
establish something like that in a worldview, certainly being caused

1105
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:28,760
to have a true belief is not knowledge.

1106
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:31,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say too, like in the in

1107
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:35,239
the Muslim position, because Allah is the best of deceivers.

1108
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:36,880
One of the reasons that they would come to that

1109
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,679
conclusion is precisely that he's the direct cause of every

1110
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,400
evil and deception in the world, So that would make

1111
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,719
him the best of deceivers, as the Kuran says.

1112
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 34: And furthermore, and this applies to the Calvinist model as well,

1113
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,159
because even the elect can be given over to a

1114
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:56,079
reprobate mind. And if God's the cause of all things,

1115
01:07:56,519 --> 01:07:59,960
then he could cause you to believe that calvin Is

1116
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:02,159
sounds true and it's in fact false, which is a

1117
01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:03,199
defeat for Calvinists.

1118
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: That's pretty simple. But the theater for Islam too, and

1119
01:08:05,719 --> 01:08:08,719
people have actually argued in academic papers that that's a

1120
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:18,560
way to refute Islam. G H was up, Hello, mister

1121
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:19,239
direc can hear me?

1122
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:20,119
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1123
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:23,359
Speaker 10: Okay, all right, so.

1124
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:30,079
Speaker 36: The gentleman, a couple of callers ago talking about, you know,

1125
01:08:30,119 --> 01:08:32,960
the Christian state had something to do with that. I

1126
01:08:33,039 --> 01:08:39,079
know that's not exactly the calling card, all right, So

1127
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:44,359
you know, I've I've been a listener of yours.

1128
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:45,239
Speaker 2: Uh.

1129
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 36: You know, I understand that you're a monarchist, but do

1130
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:55,880
you believe that there would have to be sort of a.

1131
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 2: Ground swell.

1132
01:08:57,079 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 37: Of conversions to Orthodoxy in a given area order for

1133
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:01,920
that to be viable.

1134
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 2: Yes, Is that a fair assessment of your view?

1135
01:09:06,079 --> 01:09:06,399
Speaker 3: Correct?

1136
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 37: Okay, Well, I guess I'm mean exploring that. I mean,

1137
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,880
if hypothetically, in a country, even just a region of

1138
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:27,760
a country, there was instability and there was a vanguard party,

1139
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:34,000
you know, of people who were committed Orthodox monarchists, who

1140
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:37,039
had the blessing of the local clergy, even if the

1141
01:09:37,039 --> 01:09:40,239
majority of the population was an Orthodox, would that be

1142
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:43,319
wrong to you know, seize power.

1143
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: I guess I don't think any Orthodox clergy would do

1144
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,079
that unless they were moved or prompted by some sort

1145
01:09:50,119 --> 01:09:53,720
of infiltrated you know, infiltration of some you know, CIA

1146
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,039
or FED group or something like that.

1147
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:57,520
Speaker 3: That's the only way that would happen. Uh.

1148
01:09:58,039 --> 01:10:01,399
Speaker 2: I've never heard of clergy talking about taking up arms

1149
01:10:01,399 --> 01:10:03,359
to overthrow a government.

1150
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 37: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily frame it as that,

1151
01:10:11,199 --> 01:10:16,760
But there's a vacuum, and you know, we could have

1152
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,800
a Fukuyamas liberal state, we could have a Marxist state,

1153
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,840
or we could have an Orthodox state if we mobilize

1154
01:10:25,119 --> 01:10:25,800
fast enough.

1155
01:10:26,319 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 10: You know, if that sort.

1156
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 3: Of question, I'm going to move on ming again.

1157
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 29: Hello, I think I'm in I was just wondering if

1158
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,199
you've read The Rise and Fall of the Papacy and

1159
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:56,319
if you think it's a good book.

1160
01:10:57,319 --> 01:10:59,319
Speaker 3: Uh, who wrote that one?

1161
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:02,239
Speaker 2: Craig Krublia.

1162
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 3: No, not read it? No, so fire? What's up?

1163
01:11:20,039 --> 01:11:20,319
Speaker 2: Hello?

1164
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:20,520
Speaker 3: Jay?

1165
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,239
Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Yeah?

1166
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 38: Yeah, I'll try to make this quick because I know

1167
01:11:25,039 --> 01:11:27,399
I'm on a lot, but I have a few friends

1168
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,000
who are atheist and they have this like line they

1169
01:11:31,039 --> 01:11:33,039
almost kind of repeat, and I'd be happy for in

1170
01:11:33,119 --> 01:11:35,479
and Eyes to weigh in on this. But universalism is

1171
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,000
kind of like a hell they want to die on

1172
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:41,239
where they say Christianity can only be true if universalism

1173
01:11:41,319 --> 01:11:43,319
is true. No, I know you've engaged with this in

1174
01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:46,039
the past, but like, how should I really like persuade

1175
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:49,359
someone right against universalism.

1176
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 2: I've never heard this argument that atheists think that Christianity

1177
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,520
necessitates universalism.

1178
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:56,399
Speaker 3: I've never heard this.

1179
01:11:57,039 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 10: Are you familiar?

1180
01:11:58,079 --> 01:11:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not saying it's not true.

1181
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,399
Speaker 2: I'm to say or that they're not an argument just

1182
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,359
like it's a weird line of argumentation for an atheist

1183
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:07,159
to say, like your position has to be this.

1184
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:12,359
Speaker 34: I can kind of speculate generally how they argue from

1185
01:12:12,399 --> 01:12:14,359
kind of almost like a theodicy or something.

1186
01:12:15,079 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 10: I'll say this much.

1187
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:17,119
Speaker 38: I don't mean to interrupt at all, but like what

1188
01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:19,359
I usually hear is that they don't think.

1189
01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:21,079
Speaker 10: It's like fitting with a just God.

1190
01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:23,520
Speaker 38: Right, Like they see, how is this like the most

1191
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,520
horrific idea ever conceivable, as like Chris Vernchins puts it,

1192
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:27,920
and they think like, well.

1193
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 10: If Christianity were true.

1194
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 38: Then like I'm just going to drop this whole hell concept. Right,

1195
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,239
they don't think it's compatible with omnib benevolence. Now what

1196
01:12:35,279 --> 01:12:36,760
should I say to really talk them out of it?

1197
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:44,520
Speaker 2: Because well, I don't understand why we're supposed to be

1198
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,159
bound by the claims and assertions of an atheist as

1199
01:12:49,159 --> 01:12:52,479
to what Christianity must mean. They need to demonstrate why

1200
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:58,199
that's the case, Why does Christian theology necessitate universalism? And

1201
01:12:58,359 --> 01:13:00,439
usually they'll probably appeal to something like well, it's just

1202
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,800
not fair. Well, the position is not that God arbitrarily

1203
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,399
picks and damns people. That's Calvinism. So maybe they're responding

1204
01:13:07,399 --> 01:13:10,000
to Calvinism. I don't know, but I mean, we also

1205
01:13:10,039 --> 01:13:13,119
don't have I don't think the Latin medieval idea of

1206
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,319
like a literal lake of fire. Lake of fire is

1207
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,600
the river of life. It's the energies of God that

1208
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,399
torment the wicked. So maybe they need to get a

1209
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:27,159
better conception of what we think as Orthodox and not

1210
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:28,760
like a Protestants.

1211
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:30,239
Speaker 34: So I was just gonna say, too, they're going to

1212
01:13:30,279 --> 01:13:38,920
take all these words good, armory, benevolence, justice, and they're

1213
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:40,800
going to have their own meanings of it that they're

1214
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,800
going to try to impose on. So, like Jay was saying,

1215
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:47,279
you just question them on that, like outside of an

1216
01:13:47,399 --> 01:13:50,119
Orthodox paradigm, how are you going to be able to

1217
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:52,000
justify those and define those properly?

1218
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 2: Dan?

1219
01:13:55,079 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 3: What's up?

1220
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:57,239
Speaker 2: Hey?

1221
01:13:57,359 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 39: Jay, I'm here to debate about some stuff that I

1222
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:04,199
don't really know anything about.

1223
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:08,359
Speaker 2: So I'm here company because pretty much everybody last three

1224
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:09,119
days we've done that.

1225
01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:13,159
Speaker 39: So yeah, No, I just had a question. I heard

1226
01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:15,239
you were going to get together with Sam Shamoun and

1227
01:14:15,319 --> 01:14:17,520
William Albreck. Is that still happening?

1228
01:14:19,119 --> 01:14:22,359
Speaker 2: No, because nobody in my circles wants to interact with

1229
01:14:22,399 --> 01:14:25,800
William Albreck, And so what I suggested to Sam was

1230
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:30,720
one on one, separate presentations because I also do not

1231
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,640
have any interest in direct interactions with William Albret because

1232
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,520
he's such a slimy, ridiculous character.

1233
01:14:36,279 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 3: Okay, but did you like to bring any of his

1234
01:14:41,079 --> 01:14:42,680
arguments here? I'm happy to address them.

1235
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,319
Speaker 39: I don't even know what his arguments are. I like

1236
01:14:45,399 --> 01:14:49,600
to watch. I like to watch when he probably face Protestants.

1237
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,319
But it's I just thought that it would be cool

1238
01:14:52,359 --> 01:14:55,199
to see you and him in a room. But I

1239
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,920
didn't know about the slime. I don't know if there's

1240
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,119
any is there anywhere he can direct me to that

1241
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:04,479
would show me that you know, he's.

1242
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 2: Not He gave he gave Lofton my phone number, and

1243
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,079
then Lofton sent.

1244
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 3: Me his phone number.

1245
01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, Chase, what's up.

1246
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:20,359
Speaker 3: A mute?

1247
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 2: Chase?

1248
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it took a second this time. That's funny.

1249
01:15:25,039 --> 01:15:27,159
Speaker 40: And I heard unmute and I was waiting for it

1250
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:30,479
to like connect. I just wanted to say, I remember.

1251
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,000
I think it was like a year, maybe a year

1252
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,720
and a half, maybe even two years ago. William Albreck

1253
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,520
was in a chat on one of Jay's streams, literally

1254
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:42,119
challenging him to a fight, saying J ways like one

1255
01:15:42,199 --> 01:15:45,560
hundred and fifty pounds, soaking wet, all this stuff and

1256
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,399
just talking about beating up Jay and it's just funny.

1257
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:50,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I shot at it and then he said

1258
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,079
he never said it's he's a completely liar.

1259
01:15:52,319 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, And it's just it's just funny. It's That's

1260
01:15:55,039 --> 01:15:55,800
all I wanted.

1261
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 40: To say, is these people are goofy, non serious people.

1262
01:16:00,039 --> 01:16:04,359
He never threatens people. He'll threaten their worldview, and I

1263
01:16:04,399 --> 01:16:07,399
refute it. But William Albrick, did you see Brice in

1264
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:07,680
the day?

1265
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 10: Will I will spile with you anytime. Let's Fox, Let's Fox.

1266
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1267
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,159
Speaker 4: Wait wait, wait what da is?

1268
01:16:13,359 --> 01:16:13,520
Speaker 2: Wait?

1269
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,319
Speaker 10: What dad is?

1270
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 3: So when Bryson loses it debate, he wants to fight basically.

1271
01:16:19,039 --> 01:16:20,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just wanted to bring that up.

1272
01:16:20,279 --> 01:16:21,359
Speaker 3: That's all I got. I'll pop out.

1273
01:16:21,399 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 4: I just wanted to all. Brick's just a goofy person.

1274
01:16:25,319 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm surprised that really anybody think. But I think

1275
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,479
a lot of people don't know, like any of the background.

1276
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,119
And you know, it's just like Lofton. I think over time,

1277
01:16:34,199 --> 01:16:36,800
Lofton eventually became his own worst enemy. He ran everybody

1278
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,439
off and because he was so nasty, like what does

1279
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:42,399
he get? Like, I don't know eighty fifty people on

1280
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,880
his live streames. I haven't kept up with him, but

1281
01:16:46,119 --> 01:16:48,359
I mean, nobody talks about Lofton anymore because he's his

1282
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:50,840
own worst enemy. And so you just give these guys

1283
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,520
enough time and all Brick will do the same thing.

1284
01:16:55,039 --> 01:16:55,520
Speaker 3: Leonel.

1285
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,159
Speaker 41: Hello, Jay, how's it going?

1286
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:04,079
Speaker 3: What's up?

1287
01:17:04,119 --> 01:17:04,239
Speaker 10: Man?

1288
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 2: Hey?

1289
01:17:06,079 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 41: So, I've been a Christian for about five months, and

1290
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:14,720
I understand the criticism of a penal substitutionary atonement because

1291
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:18,520
of the divine will. So I was wondering, if the

1292
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:23,840
atonement's not substitutionary, how does atonement work in Orthodox theology.

1293
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,560
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what a person means by the phrases,

1294
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:31,319
because you could argue that Orthodox Christian theology has a

1295
01:17:31,359 --> 01:17:35,199
form of substitution and a there is a legal penal

1296
01:17:35,239 --> 01:17:38,319
component tument to it, but it is not the Protestant doctrine,

1297
01:17:38,319 --> 01:17:41,159
because the Protestant doctrine, if you're consistent with it, is

1298
01:17:41,199 --> 01:17:44,399
anti trinitarian because it says that the sun was damned

1299
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,279
in order to take the penalty for us, and it's

1300
01:17:47,319 --> 01:17:50,680
a purely legal transaction, which is not at all didn't

1301
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,439
exist in the ancient world. That's why you had to

1302
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,399
have nominalism come first before you could have a purely

1303
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,560
legal status of righteousness. You can read Haiko Oberman's book

1304
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,640
on that where he talks about how nobody had this

1305
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:06,119
conception of a purely legal status until Gabriel Bile Liam

1306
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:08,159
of Oakham, and that's what influenced Luthor to be able

1307
01:18:08,199 --> 01:18:10,319
to say that God could declare you righteous when you're

1308
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:13,720
in fact wicked. So that's all read into the text

1309
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,399
of Paul. And that's why nobody in the church up

1310
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:21,079
until Luther taught a purely nominal legal status of righteousness.

1311
01:18:21,119 --> 01:18:24,760
So the anti trinitarian element and the nominalism element pretty

1312
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:30,039
much just destroys that. Yeah, I understand that. I understand that.

1313
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 41: All right, Do you have any recommendations for books on

1314
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:36,239
like iconoclasm.

1315
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would read St.

1316
01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 2: Theodore the studites little book on the Holy Images, and

1317
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:46,239
I would read John Damascus's book Defense the Holy Icons.

1318
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,159
Both of those books are very small, they're not very long.

1319
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:52,359
Speaker 3: It's up and for him.

1320
01:18:52,359 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 2: If anybody wants to request to speak, come on to debate.

1321
01:18:55,479 --> 01:19:01,119
I ask you a question, present an argument. Feel free

1322
01:19:01,159 --> 01:19:04,239
to do so. You can have the mic, just keep

1323
01:19:04,319 --> 01:19:14,880
it to the topics, keep it to argumentation. Larry, I'm.

1324
01:19:19,239 --> 01:19:25,399
Speaker 42: Yes, sir, uh, this isn't really on topic day, but Uh,

1325
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,800
if I'm a Christian, I've been one for a little while,

1326
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,359
and there's a question that's been bothering me.

1327
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,159
Speaker 3: Well, if it's not on topic, what's up?

1328
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:43,199
Speaker 2: Why do some people claim.

1329
01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:41,039
Speaker 3: Alex what's up?

1330
01:19:41,079 --> 01:19:47,039
Speaker 2: Man? Hello?

1331
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:51,399
Speaker 3: Hey man, Hey, what's up? Quick question for you. So

1332
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,800
I was talking to a Roman.

1333
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 43: Catholic and he was trying to tell me that ascribing

1334
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:05,199
potentiala to God is giving God a future, which violates God.

1335
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:06,359
Speaker 2: Being outside of space and time.

1336
01:20:06,359 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 43: I'm just curious your rebut to that.

1337
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,319
Speaker 2: No, it's giving God free will, meaning that God doesn't

1338
01:20:11,359 --> 01:20:15,399
have to actualize every possible world or every possible thing

1339
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,560
that he knows of. So if God really has free will,

1340
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,560
then he's free to create. And in that sense, there's

1341
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,239
a quote. Potential in God does not mean that God

1342
01:20:24,319 --> 01:20:29,159
undergoes change, although Roman Catholics and Thomas sometimes will struggle

1343
01:20:29,199 --> 01:20:32,520
to explain, how did he go from creating from not

1344
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,760
creating to creating if there is no change quote unquote,

1345
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,159
So you can just simply ask the Roman Catholic, well,

1346
01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:42,439
as as doctor Bradshaw asked Tomashevsky in their discussion, well

1347
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,199
did he go from not creating to creating?

1348
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:47,159
Speaker 3: And did the introduce a change.

1349
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,600
Speaker 43: Okay, cool. And they also they also like to say

1350
01:20:53,640 --> 01:21:00,640
that because God goes from you know, not actualzing something

1351
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,720
to actualizing something, that to them seems like an imperfection

1352
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:04,279
in some way.

1353
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:05,640
Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand that.

1354
01:21:06,239 --> 01:21:10,000
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, if God is perfect and his

1355
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:13,560
existence and operations and actions are identical to his essence,

1356
01:21:14,039 --> 01:21:17,479
then there can't be creating when before that there was

1357
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,560
no creating. So that's why it's called the modal collapse argument,

1358
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,840
because the modal collapse argument leads to the idea that

1359
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:28,880
there's an eternal emanation of creating, right, gotcha? Okay?

1360
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,119
Speaker 43: And then one last thing, real quick, I didn't know this.

1361
01:21:32,199 --> 01:21:34,239
I just figured this out talking to a Roman Catholic.

1362
01:21:34,319 --> 01:21:38,479
They say that there's no real distinction between the persons

1363
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:39,199
in the essence.

1364
01:21:39,399 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 2: Is that that is correct?

1365
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 3: Yes?

1366
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 2: Thomas Aquana says that, how is that not? Just like,

1367
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:49,520
well again, it should lead to modalism, correct, Okay? Well yeah,

1368
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:53,920
because they're heterodox. So we've had this debate probably a

1369
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:54,920
thousand times for.

1370
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:57,560
Speaker 3: The last ten years.

1371
01:21:58,199 --> 01:22:00,079
Speaker 2: Anybody else is upenfmous you want to come on to

1372
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:11,239
ask a question. Topics are evangelical dispensationalism, Zionism, Catholicism, Hebrew Roots, Muslims, Calvinists,

1373
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:18,399
non denominational Mormonism, Mormonism. Anybody want to come on a hit,

1374
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:21,520
request to speak, and you'll be given the microphone and

1375
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:23,920
you can make an argument, you can ask a question,

1376
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,359
you can do whatever you want. If you disagree, if

1377
01:22:26,359 --> 01:22:28,960
you agree, just keep it to the topics. Please.

1378
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,039
Speaker 3: It's not catechumen f a night.

1379
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:36,560
Speaker 2: So if you have disagreements, if you have comments, osmotic,

1380
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:45,359
I'm your.

1381
01:22:48,119 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 3: Hey, what's up? Jay?

1382
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 2: Hey? Father?

1383
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 44: Than I is yesterday you had you had a conversation

1384
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:58,920
with that fellow and he was speaking about, you know,

1385
01:22:59,199 --> 01:23:03,279
kind of stationalism. And then you would also mention something

1386
01:23:03,319 --> 01:23:06,039
called the Milner Circle, which I wasn't familiar with, and.

1387
01:23:08,039 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 2: I was kind of wondering through a tragedy and hope

1388
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:18,760
and through the Yowan Roti books at least that ran

1389
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,720
the British Empire, Lord Milner, Cecil Rhoads, Lord Rachel.

1390
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 44: Yeah, and so like is you know, what's the what's

1391
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:31,880
the Is there like a Jewish involvement in the you know,

1392
01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:34,479
because it's like the dual Covenant theology kind of playing

1393
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:38,560
a pretty significant Uh, you know, it's carrying a lot

1394
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:38,800
of weight.

1395
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:39,079
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1396
01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 2: I mean we've covered that every time it's come up

1397
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:43,359
in the last three days.

1398
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:50,159
Speaker 44: Yeah, okay, yeah, but yes.

1399
01:23:50,239 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 2: So Lord Rachel was a Jew and he was behind

1400
01:23:54,039 --> 01:24:08,239
the Balfour Declaration. Correct, Anthony, anybody else, that's open for

1401
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:09,960
him if you'd like to come to the head of

1402
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,039
the line. I wish that wine mom will come back

1403
01:24:12,039 --> 01:24:13,079
in here, that drunk wine Mom.

1404
01:24:13,159 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 3: She was fun.

1405
01:24:20,239 --> 01:24:22,600
Speaker 2: All right, Anthony, you're having a hard time connecting, so

1406
01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:27,319
come out, come back in. So it's open for any dispensationalists.

1407
01:24:27,359 --> 01:24:30,840
Anybody else. We'll go to sidekick Johnny and then too.

1408
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:33,159
Speaker 3: In defiance.

1409
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 2: Hey, what up, Jake?

1410
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 4: Can you here?

1411
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:39,199
Speaker 1: Sir?

1412
01:24:40,279 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 2: All right?

1413
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,079
Speaker 45: I just what's what you guys have been talking about.

1414
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:48,359
I think there's a lot of listeners not aware the

1415
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:52,359
book got called The Armageddon Deception by Michael Sullivan.

1416
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 3: I'm not familiar with the book. Well, it talks.

1417
01:24:57,199 --> 01:25:01,119
Speaker 45: About why why they can't be peace in the Middle

1418
01:25:01,159 --> 01:25:04,960
East until we figure out what's wrong, and with the

1419
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:08,239
deception of the Holy Land and all that good stuff,

1420
01:25:08,239 --> 01:25:11,720
but goes into the whole seventy a d stuff, And

1421
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:17,840
I just think your listeners would I'll.

1422
01:25:17,039 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 2: Take a look at that. Appreciate that. Raven Naws. I

1423
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:36,680
forgot Tyranny will go to you next. I'm mute, Raven Naws,

1424
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:37,279
do you want to talk?

1425
01:25:37,359 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 3: I'm mute.

1426
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 2: Got there yet with up? Hello? Yell with up man

1427
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:06,199
ud all right, moving on cool.

1428
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:17,239
Speaker 46: I just didn't know if you've ever heard of Jacob Hanson.

1429
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 3: Don't think so.

1430
01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 2: Who's up He's been getting.

1431
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:24,199
Speaker 46: A little bit of popularity with he's a Mormon apologist.

1432
01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:28,000
He would did the little full circle with that atheist

1433
01:26:28,079 --> 01:26:30,880
kid cosmic skeptic fella.

1434
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,520
Speaker 7: But he's one that's kind.

1435
01:26:33,399 --> 01:26:36,560
Speaker 46: Of probably I would say top tier for Mormon apologists,

1436
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:40,239
which isn't just saying too much. But I'd be interested

1437
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:42,000
if you would challenge him on the debate.

1438
01:26:42,319 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 2: Well, he can come in here if you'd like to,

1439
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:47,199
and you just send him the the link to come debate.

1440
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 3: Raven Naws, what's up?

1441
01:26:51,399 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 2: Un mute? Nobody knows how they do a Twitter space?

1442
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 3: Are real? Camine?

1443
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 2: I mean, hey, Jay, I got two questions.

1444
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:16,720
Speaker 47: So the first question is pretending to like uh Zionism?

1445
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:17,640
Speaker 7: Is so?

1446
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:20,079
Speaker 47: I the church that I'm in, I'm in acquired for

1447
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:21,840
orthodoxy right now and the church.

1448
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:22,199
Speaker 10: That I'm leaving.

1449
01:27:22,239 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 47: Is I got onest modalism and stuff like that. Besides that,

1450
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:29,800
they're like hardcore Zionists. And I asked them like, well,

1451
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:32,439
do the Jews have salvation? And I don't know the

1452
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:35,000
exact verse, but they say where our salvation comes from

1453
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,399
the Jews? Like our salvation is of the Jews, and

1454
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:41,520
they pretty much that's their foundation.

1455
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that just means that because Jesus is the

1456
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,119
product of the entire Old Testament period, that he is

1457
01:27:48,159 --> 01:27:49,359
the source of that salvation.

1458
01:27:50,119 --> 01:27:50,520
Speaker 3: Gotcha?

1459
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 10: Okay?

1460
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:51,199
Speaker 2: Cool?

1461
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 47: And then the second question I have because I was

1462
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:58,640
not debating, because I'm not I can't really be an

1463
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:03,520
apologist for Orthodoxy yet, but this is against my Catholic friend.

1464
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,479
He was saying, well, Orthodoxy doesn't have that much of

1465
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:11,119
an outreach when it comes to evangelia, you know.

1466
01:28:11,039 --> 01:28:14,199
Speaker 2: Like I can go check out Ubi Petris's videos. He's

1467
01:28:14,199 --> 01:28:18,159
made two videos on that topic on what Orthodox evangelism is.

1468
01:28:18,319 --> 01:28:22,239
So a lot of Protestants equate quote evangelism with whatever

1469
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,359
goofy nonsense that they do. That's not what the Orthodox

1470
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,319
Church conceives of evangelism, as it's much more in depth

1471
01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:31,479
and more you know, it's a three year catechumen, a

1472
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,960
period anywhere from one to three years. So tracks and

1473
01:28:35,279 --> 01:28:38,399
yapping on the street corner is not evangelism, all right, sop,

1474
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:40,600
And for him if he wants to hop on, if

1475
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,359
you would like to request to speak, you can. I'll

1476
01:28:43,359 --> 01:28:45,680
bring you up. If you're a Muslim, if you're Hebrew Roots,

1477
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:47,840
if you're a Rumman Catholic, if you're an Evangelical, if

1478
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:51,880
you're a dispensationalist, if you are a Christian Zionist, if

1479
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:56,439
you are a Hebrew Roots Black, Heber Israelite, if you

1480
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:00,600
are a Mormon, if you are a all the hecks

1481
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:07,319
just human that all the secks, We'll just say, any

1482
01:29:07,399 --> 01:29:11,159
sect you can go to the head of line. If

1483
01:29:11,199 --> 01:29:14,840
you're a Roman Catholic papist, if you're a Calvinist, if

1484
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,359
you're a Lutheran, hit request to speak and I'll bring

1485
01:29:17,399 --> 01:29:20,119
you up. We've still got four hundred people in here,

1486
01:29:20,159 --> 01:29:22,159
which is pretty crazy, and nobody out of this foreigner

1487
01:29:22,199 --> 01:29:25,319
people wants to come up here and chat, wants the debate,

1488
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:30,199
wants to ask questions, wants to present a position, prove

1489
01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:34,479
your protestantism, give us an argument. I'm glad we got

1490
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:37,399
a couple of big fish in here to totally melt

1491
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:39,399
down like Donnie dark In.

1492
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:47,239
Speaker 3: That guy's ridiculous. Uh, Ryan, what's up?

1493
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 2: I'm your.

1494
01:29:57,880 --> 01:29:58,359
Speaker 3: What's up?

1495
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 12: I just wanted to discuss with you. The Council of

1496
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:12,279
are the Synod of Black Grene twelve eighty five, the

1497
01:30:12,319 --> 01:30:13,600
procession of the Holy Spirit.

1498
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:15,520
Speaker 3: Okay, why do you want to discuss that?

1499
01:30:17,199 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 12: Do you think that it's somehow adverse to the teaching

1500
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:23,600
of the Philioquay?

1501
01:30:25,119 --> 01:30:27,319
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the purpose of the councils to refute

1502
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:32,640
the philioquez So yes, in a what way?

1503
01:30:33,119 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 3: Are you being serious?

1504
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 2: Are you joking? What do you mean? In what way?

1505
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 44: Like?

1506
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 2: The entire council exists to respond to the Council Lions.

1507
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:41,359
Speaker 3: So what do you mean?

1508
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:50,239
Speaker 12: Well, it says very paricle shines from and is manifest.

1509
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,640
Speaker 2: Called that's called eternal manifestation. That's a rejection of the

1510
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:55,000
dual dual eternal procession.

1511
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 12: How is that?

1512
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 2: That's literally the meaning of the council and its purpose.

1513
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,920
It's called the Orthodox doctrine of eternal manifestation. And the

1514
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:13,000
purpose of explicating that by Gregory of Cyprus was to

1515
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:17,720
refute the Council of Lions in the West teaching of

1516
01:31:18,399 --> 01:31:21,960
double eternal Hypostidic procession. You could read Crisis and Byzantium

1517
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:27,279
by Papa Doocus's whole book on it. Are you familiar

1518
01:31:27,319 --> 01:31:29,560
with the Palamas's book on this topic.

1519
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 12: No?

1520
01:31:31,119 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 2: Not, so he wrote Apidictic Treatise on the Holy Spirit.

1521
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:37,439
The whole book is about the theology of this council

1522
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:41,479
and it calls the Latin doctrine from Satan.

1523
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:49,399
Speaker 12: Interesting. So do you think that the fact that you

1524
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:52,399
have four popes that are saints is a problem for you?

1525
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:54,560
Speaker 3: Or why would that be problem?

1526
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,319
Speaker 12: Do you think that those popes did not see themselves

1527
01:31:59,359 --> 01:31:59,960
as popes?

1528
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 2: Again, are you the guy that called in here before

1529
01:32:03,159 --> 01:32:05,640
with absolutely no knowledge of these topics trying to argue

1530
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:06,119
with me on this?

1531
01:32:07,279 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 12: No?

1532
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,520
Speaker 2: Why would the Orthodox Church believing in multiple There's far

1533
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:14,279
more than four popes who are saints in the Orthodox Church.

1534
01:32:14,399 --> 01:32:17,399
There's probably dozens in the first thousand years.

1535
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 3: Why would that be a problem with the Orthodox Church?

1536
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 12: Why don't you have a pope today?

1537
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:24,680
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yeah, you are that guy. We have

1538
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:25,640
fourteen of them.

1539
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:29,399
Speaker 12: Yeah, do you know what a pope is?

1540
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:34,319
Speaker 2: Are you trolling? You can't be serious.

1541
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:37,359
Speaker 12: I think you're trolling.

1542
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:38,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying.

1543
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:40,039
Speaker 2: I know. I bet you money. I know the Roman

1544
01:32:40,079 --> 01:32:42,079
Kelly position better than you two. Yeah, I mean, do

1545
01:32:42,079 --> 01:32:45,239
you want Vatican One's definition of the papacy. Yeah, exactly.

1546
01:32:45,319 --> 01:32:47,560
Speaker 12: Let's go what does Peter mean?

1547
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:49,279
Speaker 2: Okay, what does Peter mean?

1548
01:32:50,039 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 3: Good job, dude. This is that guy who was in

1549
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,279
here last time doing the same stuff.

1550
01:32:53,359 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 34: You know, you know each bishop is Peter.

1551
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,399
Speaker 2: He's this is the guy doesn't know anything. He thinks

1552
01:32:59,399 --> 01:33:02,199
that if we think that there's a pope that where

1553
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:06,199
Roman Catholics like, it's that he did the same thing

1554
01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:07,079
like a few months ago.

1555
01:33:07,319 --> 01:33:09,359
Speaker 3: So it's not it's not even worth You can't get

1556
01:33:09,359 --> 01:33:16,000
anywhere with that guy. He's almost like misfit patriot level stuff.

1557
01:33:16,319 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 2: So because he literally did exact same thing like six

1558
01:33:20,039 --> 01:33:21,680
months ago, all right, it's hoping for him. If you're

1559
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:27,239
a Christian, Zionist and evangelical, dispensationalist, a Roman Catholic, a papist,

1560
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:32,760
Hebrew roots professor, if you are a Muslim, if you

1561
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:37,399
are a charismatic Pentecostal, you can come to the head

1562
01:33:37,399 --> 01:33:41,279
of the line. A geomancer, a geomancer, a divant, a divener.

1563
01:33:42,399 --> 01:33:51,199
If you're a necromancer, a sorcerer. If you play Dungeons

1564
01:33:51,239 --> 01:33:54,399
and Dragons, you go to the head of the line.

1565
01:33:55,079 --> 01:33:58,359
You can be our our dungeon master. Tonight, just hit

1566
01:33:58,399 --> 01:34:01,640
request to speak and I'll bring you up. Man, I

1567
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:04,760
gotta there's some It seems like sometimes you can find

1568
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:08,119
like the perfect trigger code to bring in like the

1569
01:34:08,159 --> 01:34:10,279
wildest people. So I think when you put.

1570
01:34:11,279 --> 01:34:13,279
Speaker 34: All war Hammer.

1571
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:15,079
Speaker 2: No, when you put I'm saying like when you put

1572
01:34:15,119 --> 01:34:21,119
in the title like Muslim, Islam, Tate, Evangelical, Zionism, dispensation,

1573
01:34:21,239 --> 01:34:25,319
like you get some wild ones. Same thing happened when

1574
01:34:25,359 --> 01:34:27,439
we were talking about icons Remember that we were talking

1575
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:29,760
about iconography for a while and we're getting like the crazies.

1576
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:38,199
That was awesome. Man, I forgot about that now I know.

1577
01:34:38,279 --> 01:34:38,800
Speaker 3: Out of this.

1578
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:44,079
Speaker 2: Group, here we go, here's our civil Roman Catholic aion.

1579
01:34:45,399 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 3: Nina.

1580
01:34:51,279 --> 01:34:55,399
Speaker 30: Yeah. When I wanted to speak to you at the

1581
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,640
very beginning, one of my questions was, is there any

1582
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,720
way you can narrow the title of the space, actually,

1583
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:06,560
because I wasn't sure what the parameters were. So, you know,

1584
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:10,000
it might be that people are just they're almost overwhelmed

1585
01:35:10,199 --> 01:35:12,359
sometimes when you have too many choices, you know, how

1586
01:35:12,359 --> 01:35:14,159
that is, you don't know how to focus in on

1587
01:35:14,199 --> 01:35:17,039
what you really want to ask or say, So I

1588
01:35:17,039 --> 01:35:19,119
don't know, random thought that maybe that's what's going on.

1589
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:21,880
But if I were to ask you another question, and

1590
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:26,680
for all of you, there's been discussion of Zionism tonight,

1591
01:35:27,359 --> 01:35:30,520
and that's also in the title. But for me personally,

1592
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:35,840
and again, I'm a woman, but I was very distraught

1593
01:35:36,359 --> 01:35:41,479
by the events on October seventh, and I at the

1594
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,720
time happened to be a nanny working for taking care

1595
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,920
of a Jewish baby who I had become very close to,

1596
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:50,399
and the mom would be crying all the time with

1597
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:53,520
the news on in the background. She was literally terrified.

1598
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:56,079
You know, I would be kissing this baby constantly. It

1599
01:35:56,119 --> 01:35:59,399
was just it was a very visceral reaction. And since then,

1600
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:04,319
I've a lot of sympathy with the Palestinians and with Gaza,

1601
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:06,680
which almost seems like a sympathy for Hamas, and of

1602
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,560
course we've seen that with all the marching in the

1603
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:11,079
streets and all of that. So for me, it's more

1604
01:36:11,119 --> 01:36:15,319
about what side are people on who do they think

1605
01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:22,159
are really pro violence and pro torture and the unjust

1606
01:36:22,199 --> 01:36:25,079
treatment of women and children. And who do they think

1607
01:36:25,359 --> 01:36:28,159
are maybe fighting back or in self defense.

1608
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 2: Now, now we've covered this, I've lectured on the entire

1609
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:31,479
history of.

1610
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:32,279
Speaker 4: This whole conflict.

1611
01:36:32,319 --> 01:36:33,720
Speaker 30: I'm sorry, I think I.

1612
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 2: Have a YouTube lecture on this topic. We've covered this

1613
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:41,840
topic for the last three nights extensively, and tonight's topic

1614
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:45,279
is not about modern nation state of Israel. It's called

1615
01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:50,039
Christian Zionism in the sense of dispensationalism, because many Evangelicals

1616
01:36:50,039 --> 01:36:54,880
are dispensationalists who believe that there's some sort of covenant

1617
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:59,319
that's dual or separate or continuing to exist for the

1618
01:36:59,399 --> 01:36:59,840
modern a.

1619
01:37:00,039 --> 01:37:01,479
Speaker 3: Fust nation state of Israel.

1620
01:37:02,399 --> 01:37:06,399
Speaker 2: None of that has anything to do with the Christian

1621
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,439
covenants in the sense of Jesus being the fulfillment of

1622
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:12,680
those covenants. The history of Hamas and Israel and all

1623
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:14,920
that is a big, long rabbit hole, which again we've

1624
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:18,520
we've done separate topics just on that. But no, I

1625
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:22,199
would say this is a false dialectic an Orthodox Christian,

1626
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:28,520
if anything, is concerned with the two percent or so

1627
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,199
of the Orthodox Christians in Palestine.

1628
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:32,479
Speaker 3: That's about it.

1629
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:36,119
Speaker 2: So, and I think there are also Uni eight Palestinians

1630
01:37:36,119 --> 01:37:41,720
as well, and they are persecuted by the Likud side

1631
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:42,720
of the state of Israel.

1632
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,359
Speaker 15: I See, okay, well with has no.

1633
01:37:47,159 --> 01:37:49,159
Speaker 2: No, I'm just I'm in agreeing with you that I

1634
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:52,800
would we would not be pro Hamas at all, Savio.

1635
01:37:58,279 --> 01:38:02,239
Speaker 48: Yeah, hey ja, this is a quest question regarding dispensationalism,

1636
01:38:02,359 --> 01:38:05,680
regarding the verse that most of these Gubers bring up

1637
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:08,479
when they bring up first Tessalonians four sixteen, where it says,

1638
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:10,800
this is a time in which believers will meet the

1639
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:11,720
Lord in the ear.

1640
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 4: What is the orthodox interpretation of this?

1641
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 2: That's just the second Advent. There's no reason to think

1642
01:38:16,039 --> 01:38:19,720
that there's that in any way, is some delineated quote

1643
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:23,720
pre tribulation, rapture moment. The quote rapture just is the

1644
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:25,239
general resurrection.

1645
01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 3: At the end of time. Thank you.

1646
01:38:28,119 --> 01:38:31,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's actually a great question because like you

1647
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:35,560
literally have these Protestant evangelicals who like read all of

1648
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:40,560
this stupid John Hagey Schofield Darby's system into like a

1649
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:42,279
few verses, I kid you not. Like one of their

1650
01:38:42,279 --> 01:38:44,720
other verses is that I was in the spirit on

1651
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:47,640
the Lord's Day and I saw into heaven. I was

1652
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:49,600
caught up in the spirit. Right, So they actually think

1653
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,600
that when John says that he sees into heaven, that's

1654
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:55,960
a type of the rapture, and that since John seas

1655
01:38:56,039 --> 01:38:58,600
into heaven before the events of the Book of Revelation,

1656
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:01,960
that's quote proof of the pre tribulation.

1657
01:39:04,319 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 49: I want to add too, if you go to.

1658
01:39:07,039 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 19: Uh you see.

1659
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 3: Him pull it up real quick.

1660
01:39:13,239 --> 01:39:16,039
Speaker 34: One will be working in the field and caught up.

1661
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:20,359
Right where what that's actually talking about. That's not even

1662
01:39:20,399 --> 01:39:25,439
about the end time. It's talking about your death, your

1663
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:30,520
individual death, that which is what we should all be

1664
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:34,800
focusing on. Right That one will be working in the

1665
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:39,520
field and then caught up means they'll die. You'll be dead,

1666
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:41,439
and the other one will be left behind. It doesn't

1667
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:43,479
mean that there's a rapture.

1668
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:45,199
Speaker 3: The wait a minute, you said left behind.

1669
01:39:45,239 --> 01:39:54,680
Speaker 2: So you're teaching the left Behind series from.

1670
01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:54,880
Speaker 34: One is working in the field?

1671
01:39:55,399 --> 01:39:57,279
Speaker 2: I think it's in Luke, but it is in the

1672
01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:59,479
He does mention like the days of Noah. And that's

1673
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:03,439
why people assume that the Days of Noah refers necessarily

1674
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:05,000
then to the end of the world. And there could

1675
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:10,159
be some aschological context because yeah, first That'thonius does say

1676
01:40:10,199 --> 01:40:11,800
that we will be caught up in the in the

1677
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:14,840
clouds to meet the Lord. But it's it's a reference

1678
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:17,279
to the bodily advent of the second Coming.

1679
01:40:17,359 --> 01:40:19,439
Speaker 49: Wow, Jay here here you are wrong again.

1680
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 2: It's Matthew see there.

1681
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,359
Speaker 3: Well no, it's in lou too, So.

1682
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 7: Well, okay, is it?

1683
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:25,720
Speaker 2: Okay?

1684
01:40:26,279 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 49: Then two men will be in the field, one will

1685
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:31,640
be taken in the other left, two women will be

1686
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:36,520
grinding the mill. I mean, the most obvious. Watch therefore,

1687
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:40,399
for you do not know what our the Lord is coming.

1688
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:42,479
So I think you're right. I think it's talking about

1689
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:46,920
immediate death, and there's an eschological element to that. But

1690
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,439
obviously two men working in the field and one's going

1691
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:54,000
to you never know you remember, you fool, your your

1692
01:40:54,039 --> 01:41:01,560
life will be taken a record this day. So yeah, anyways,

1693
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:02,960
I just thought i'd just asked.

1694
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the Luke passages.

1695
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:10,119
Speaker 3: Where's the Lake passage. That's not what I'm looking for.

1696
01:41:13,279 --> 01:41:14,800
Let's see, I just had it pulled up here.

1697
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:17,600
Speaker 34: I think it's probably Luke twenty three.

1698
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:18,640
Speaker 2: Let me find it.

1699
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:22,279
Speaker 3: Let's see Luke Luke twenty seven.

1700
01:41:22,399 --> 01:41:32,239
Speaker 2: What does that one say.

1701
01:41:31,159 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 10: Luke twenty one seven.

1702
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:43,600
Speaker 2: Cause that text just says that many men's hearts will

1703
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,479
be failing for fear, looking at the signs, the powers

1704
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:48,119
that heaven will be shaken. They will see the Son

1705
01:41:48,199 --> 01:41:54,079
of Man coming, glory and the clouds. So maybe maybe

1706
01:41:54,199 --> 01:41:57,359
maybe it's Luke's Oh it's Luke seventeen. Excuse me, where

1707
01:41:57,359 --> 01:42:00,640
it says the same passage in Matthew about being taken.

1708
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:10,119
Speaker 3: Let me pull up Lo seventeen seventeen thirty four.

1709
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 2: Says two men will be in one bed, one shall

1710
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:19,199
be taken, the other be left. Two men will be

1711
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:22,680
women grinding, And they say where will that be? Lord,

1712
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:25,640
wherever the body is that the eagles will be gathered.

1713
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:31,920
So he says, remember Lot's wife, Yeah, oh, I see, Yeah,

1714
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,000
this is the because he talks about the days of

1715
01:42:34,039 --> 01:42:37,359
Noah and Lot's wife. All the evangelicals assume, oh, well,

1716
01:42:37,359 --> 01:42:41,159
that's the end of the world, right, because they think

1717
01:42:41,199 --> 01:42:43,600
the days this actually proves your point. Right. So in

1718
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:45,800
verse twenty six, when it says, as it was in

1719
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:47,920
the days of Noah, so shall it be in the

1720
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:51,600
days of the Son of Man, all the evangelicals think, well,

1721
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:52,800
the days of the Sun of Man is the end

1722
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:55,680
of the world and pre tribulation rapture, right, No, no, no,

1723
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:58,600
The days of the Son of Man is the church age.

1724
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:01,960
That's why Jesus brought the last days when he came

1725
01:43:02,039 --> 01:43:10,199
in his first advt Yeah, so that actually heard your point, Ronaldo.

1726
01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:16,439
Remember that we talked about what we talked about with

1727
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:18,640
the guy last night, Sovereign Broad when he called in.

1728
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,000
Speaker 3: Remember it says in.

1729
01:43:21,119 --> 01:43:24,359
Speaker 2: Joel what one and two says, I will pour out

1730
01:43:24,359 --> 01:43:25,880
my spirit upon all fleshs in.

1731
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:26,800
Speaker 3: The last days.

1732
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:29,399
Speaker 2: And if you look in the Book of Accent Acts two,

1733
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:33,479
that's interpreted to be Pentecost. So Pentecost is the last days,

1734
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:36,399
because the entire church era is the last days.

1735
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:55,079
Speaker 50: Ronaldo, I'm you, Ronaldo, I'm mute. Do you want to talk?

1736
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:57,119
I guess not.

1737
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:02,199
Speaker 2: All right, it's open for him for any of the

1738
01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:16,239
related topics of dispensationalism, Evangelical Zionism, Roman Catholicism, Hebrew Roots, Mormons, Muslims, Calvinists, Protestants, Papists.

1739
01:44:16,359 --> 01:44:19,720
I can't even remember all the groups. If you'd like

1740
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:23,039
to make an argument, if you'd like to hop on,

1741
01:44:23,159 --> 01:44:26,000
ask a question, you can just keep it to the topics. Please.

1742
01:44:26,039 --> 01:44:30,399
We have multiple, multiple people not keeping it to the topics,

1743
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,600
so it's kind of a pet peeve. When you do that,

1744
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:38,520
So that would mean so, like she said, if this

1745
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:41,680
is confusing, if you do not agree with the Orthodox

1746
01:44:42,239 --> 01:44:47,800
Church position, that's any of you, even atheists. It doesn't

1747
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:50,560
unlist atheists, but we'll expand into atheists if you want.

1748
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:51,159
Speaker 10: If you're.

1749
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 3: A Mormon, if you're a.

1750
01:44:54,279 --> 01:44:58,359
Speaker 2: Hebrew Roots, black heberus Alites, where you all at, Nathan Hines.

1751
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:06,479
Speaker 3: I'm mute, Nathan.

1752
01:45:13,119 --> 01:45:14,760
Speaker 2: It's mystifying to me when people don't know how to

1753
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:16,680
work the spaces, like it's no one does this.

1754
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:17,399
Speaker 3: I don't understand.

1755
01:45:17,399 --> 01:45:20,359
Speaker 2: Like I see spaces going on NonStop all day on

1756
01:45:20,399 --> 01:45:23,800
Twitter and people don't know how this works. You just

1757
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:27,720
hit request to speak and then you unmute.

1758
01:45:28,359 --> 01:45:30,119
Speaker 3: Nathan. Do you want to talk? You have to unmute.

1759
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 51: Oh I'm sorry, my apology, sir. Hey, look man, I've

1760
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:37,079
been listening to you for years on Alex Jones, and

1761
01:45:37,119 --> 01:45:38,760
I just want to let you know that I really

1762
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:46,640
appreciate your education, prowess and your whole just everything you say.

1763
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:50,000
I'm just like I just nose dive into and I

1764
01:45:50,039 --> 01:45:58,199
appreciate you, man. And my thought process is this whole

1765
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:04,800
Muslim like nightmare that's been going on over in Europe

1766
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:07,680
for the past like fifteen years that it seems to

1767
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:12,199
be leaking out over here. At what point in time

1768
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:16,920
do the American people really wake up to realize that

1769
01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:22,000
this is against Christian values. And thank you for listening.

1770
01:46:22,119 --> 01:46:24,680
I appreciate your brother. You take care of yourself.

1771
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:32,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I underestimated the usefulness of Islam to

1772
01:46:32,359 --> 01:46:36,880
the global elite, and they would flood the West, even

1773
01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:41,399
America with the Muslim So, you know, only in the

1774
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:46,840
last say, six years of debating Muslims extensively, have I

1775
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:49,359
really understood a lot more about Islam and how just

1776
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:50,800
preposterous it is.

1777
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:53,239
Speaker 3: It's just it's just such.

1778
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,600
Speaker 2: A low I mean, I'm being nice when I say

1779
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:57,880
it's like a low IQ cult. I mean you have

1780
01:46:57,920 --> 01:47:02,359
to be really really do just like last night's evangelical

1781
01:47:02,439 --> 01:47:05,079
zionis that you have to be equally as dumb like

1782
01:47:05,119 --> 01:47:08,960
that guy to believe in this stuff because there's just

1783
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:15,159
so much historical, biblical evidence against any of it. I mean,

1784
01:47:15,199 --> 01:47:19,039
we had Muslims for six hours a few months ago,

1785
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:22,560
none of whom could restate what a hypothetical is. And

1786
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:24,359
I'm not trying to be mean, And you can call

1787
01:47:24,399 --> 01:47:28,239
it racist or whatever you want. But I mean, it's

1788
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:33,279
kind of like Joe's Witnesses, Like these groups dupe really

1789
01:47:33,319 --> 01:47:35,840
simplistic people and so they fall for.

1790
01:47:38,479 --> 01:47:41,680
Speaker 3: You know, Trinid did not make sense more God than one,

1791
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:43,880
you know, this kind of stuff. So I don't know

1792
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:44,399
what to say.

1793
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean, and I say that because, like it should

1794
01:47:47,359 --> 01:47:49,680
be obvious that if the Quran says that you can

1795
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,520
confirm the Qoran on the basis of prior revelation, and

1796
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:58,079
the revelation contradicts the Koran, then the Quran is false, right,

1797
01:47:58,119 --> 01:48:03,000
because the prior revelation takes precedence over the new revelation.

1798
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:07,039
But the new revelation contradicts the prior and then Muslims

1799
01:48:07,079 --> 01:48:09,720
can't figure out why that's a circle or why that's

1800
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:13,600
a contradiction. And they can't even I'd say ninety nine

1801
01:48:13,640 --> 01:48:16,319
percent of them. They can't even restate what the argument is.

1802
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:20,520
You have to get to like doctor Khalil, who has

1803
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:22,560
a PhD. But at least he understands it. It's a

1804
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:26,119
very simple argument, but for some reason there is some

1805
01:48:26,159 --> 01:48:28,199
sort of mental spiritual block going on.

1806
01:48:28,239 --> 01:48:29,560
Speaker 3: I think ultimately it is spiritual.

1807
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:32,079
Speaker 2: It's hope and for them, if you have a question,

1808
01:48:32,079 --> 01:48:35,720
if you have a comment, if you'd like to make

1809
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:38,279
an argument. If you disagree, you can come to the headline.

1810
01:48:39,119 --> 01:48:41,720
Anyone that disagrees comes to the headline. Hit request is

1811
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:44,520
being to bring you up, and you can make an argument.

1812
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:45,800
Speaker 3: You can ask a question.

1813
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:55,199
Speaker 2: Do it all. We're looking for anybody who believes in Protestantism, Evangelicalism, Dispensationalism,

1814
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:59,159
Roman Catholicism, Papists, Muslims.

1815
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:03,640
Speaker 3: Black keeper, Israelites, Hebrew roots. Uh.

1816
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:08,119
Speaker 2: If you believe in om Shinriko cult out of Japan.

1817
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,439
If you believe in Jim Jones's People's Temple, you can

1818
01:49:12,479 --> 01:49:18,680
go to that line. If you believe in Heaven's Gate,

1819
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:21,039
we got any heaven Marshall Apple White followers.

1820
01:49:21,119 --> 01:49:23,680
Speaker 49: Were they actually somebody told me they were actually vegan?

1821
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:24,359
Speaker 4: Is that true?

1822
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:26,279
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1823
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:29,680
Speaker 2: That's a good question, Okay, I bet Rock would know.

1824
01:49:32,640 --> 01:49:35,199
Do you want me to ask Groc here? Groc does

1825
01:49:35,239 --> 01:49:37,439
all of my theology for me? Like, yeah, that's right.

1826
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:40,279
I don't even have to think anymore. I think, thank you, Grok,

1827
01:49:40,479 --> 01:49:41,119
thank you Groc.

1828
01:49:41,199 --> 01:49:42,920
Speaker 3: I just literally asked him.

1829
01:49:43,199 --> 01:49:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm ready for the audible version, so I don't even

1830
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:49,119
have to type anything. I can just ask him Heaven's

1831
01:49:49,159 --> 01:49:50,680
Gate I believe in?

1832
01:49:51,319 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 3: Did you say vegan or vegetarian?

1833
01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:57,079
Speaker 34: I said vegan, but okay, I don't.

1834
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 2: Might have been vegetarian, did have Evian's Gate? Believe in vegetarianism.

1835
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:03,119
Speaker 3: Let's see what Grox says.

1836
01:50:11,399 --> 01:50:21,720
Speaker 2: According to Electronic Elon Musk, they do not explicitly center

1837
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:25,720
their beliefs around vegetarianism as a court doctrine, but it

1838
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:30,199
did emphasize detachment from the body. Some of their beliefs

1839
01:50:30,199 --> 01:50:33,680
and practices hint at vegetarianism. For example, the final meal

1840
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:40,399
together before their mass suicide was a non meat Wait, no,

1841
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:43,600
it was meat, consisted of supposedly turkey pop pie.

1842
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 3: Of course it could have.

1843
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:47,319
Speaker 2: Been like like beyond meat or something.

1844
01:50:47,319 --> 01:50:47,680
Speaker 10: I don't know.

1845
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:52,680
Speaker 34: You should ask Groc if Grock's planning to do an

1846
01:50:52,720 --> 01:50:54,199
abomination of desolation?

1847
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 3: Whatever say?

1848
01:50:58,039 --> 01:51:00,720
Speaker 2: Can you lay out for me a John Hagen prophecy

1849
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:03,880
chart which which predicts the end of the world and

1850
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:06,720
exactly on what day?

1851
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:09,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I forget, I forget about Bahai. I remember

1852
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:11,960
the Bahai faith that's behind we did have. We did

1853
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:13,439
have one Bahai guy calling one time.

1854
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:15,319
Speaker 2: And the Moonies. Aren't there any Moonies?

1855
01:51:15,359 --> 01:51:15,600
Speaker 10: Left.

1856
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:16,359
Speaker 3: Do they still exist?

1857
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 2: I don't know. Oh, mooneyes, did you know did you

1858
01:51:24,479 --> 01:51:26,960
hear the whole fracush yesterday for the deacon with that

1859
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:30,159
guy we were debating. Yeah? Did you see that? He

1860
01:51:30,279 --> 01:51:33,960
was reading the notes and it said to th h

1861
01:51:34,039 --> 01:51:36,199
that someone gave him and he thought that was too

1862
01:51:36,199 --> 01:51:39,079
theologians when it was second this Lennans, Oh yeah, I

1863
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:41,359
joked with my wife. I'm like, did he just say

1864
01:51:41,399 --> 01:51:46,680
too theologians? Yes, I'm like, that's hilarious. There was something

1865
01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:49,640
else that people in the chat caught was rewatching some

1866
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:51,359
of the clips today which I didn't catch.

1867
01:51:51,399 --> 01:51:53,239
Speaker 3: In the midst of the debate. I didn't catch him.

1868
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:55,159
Speaker 2: I forget what it was, but he said something else

1869
01:51:55,199 --> 01:52:03,079
that didn't catch, but that was pretty wild. Anybody want

1870
01:52:03,079 --> 01:52:04,800
to come on here, request to speak, and you'll come

1871
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:06,840
up to the head of line. If you want to

1872
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:08,960
ask a question, you can. I guess we just open

1873
01:52:09,079 --> 01:52:11,439
up to any topics since nobody else seems to be

1874
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:13,840
coming on. We still have about four hundred people, which

1875
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:23,720
is bigger than my X space is usually good. Any questions, comments, disagreements.

1876
01:52:25,399 --> 01:52:34,159
Speaker 20: Damon, Hello, yes, sir, Hey, hey Joy, how are you?

1877
01:52:35,319 --> 01:52:39,000
I found you? Do like you and Sam's debate on

1878
01:52:39,159 --> 01:52:42,279
fresh and fits. Sorry, but I'm basically I'm in a

1879
01:52:42,319 --> 01:52:45,720
country called Bermuda, and we don't have any like Orthodox church,

1880
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:50,560
and I grew up non denominational. But I'm basically trying

1881
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:53,560
to explore, you know, which denomination I want to choose,

1882
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:56,920
but there's no Orthodox Church here and I know you're Orthodox,

1883
01:52:57,119 --> 01:52:59,760
And what do you suggest I do?

1884
01:53:00,199 --> 01:53:03,479
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, that's a good question. In fact, Tristan had

1885
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:04,000
to deal with this.

1886
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:09,119
Speaker 2: Tristan has had to travel I think eight hours to

1887
01:53:09,159 --> 01:53:13,079
get baptized by a Serbian priest in Ecuador or north

1888
01:53:13,119 --> 01:53:16,279
of Ecuador. So you might have to reach out to

1889
01:53:16,319 --> 01:53:21,840
the nearest Orthodox church and be catechized through the priests

1890
01:53:22,159 --> 01:53:26,199
remotely and arrange a baptism, which they will do. And

1891
01:53:26,399 --> 01:53:28,119
Tristan is a shining example of that.

1892
01:53:28,239 --> 01:53:28,600
Speaker 3: Skeeter.

1893
01:53:41,359 --> 01:53:45,000
Speaker 52: Oh, and then my phone messed up.

1894
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:46,079
Speaker 3: What's up?

1895
01:53:46,119 --> 01:53:46,239
Speaker 10: Man?

1896
01:53:47,119 --> 01:53:47,560
Speaker 2: All right?

1897
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:51,319
Speaker 52: So I wanted to first just say, you know, I

1898
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:57,520
enjoy all the videos, but with my parents who are Evangelical,

1899
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:01,600
you know, Christian, and I am orthodoged Uh. One of

1900
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:05,479
the biggest things that was talked about last night with

1901
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:10,520
like what a Jew is? They usually say it's the

1902
01:54:11,319 --> 01:54:14,800
whatever the Rabbinical Jews say. So they say it's usually

1903
01:54:15,119 --> 01:54:19,199
matrilinal descent, right, you know. And I said, then what

1904
01:54:19,239 --> 01:54:23,279
do we do about Messianic Jews? And they're like, well,

1905
01:54:23,319 --> 01:54:27,760
they're just Jews that believe in Jesus. And I'm like,

1906
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:31,119
but do they have any of the traditions and everything.

1907
01:54:31,159 --> 01:54:33,560
He's like, well, yeah, kind of, and they choose and

1908
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:36,119
I'm like, and I guess my favorite thing to call

1909
01:54:36,199 --> 01:54:39,159
them is really Protestants and drag There's only one way

1910
01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:39,960
to explain it.

1911
01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:41,399
Speaker 17: How would you.

1912
01:54:43,199 --> 01:54:47,479
Speaker 52: Without going too deep in the theology, I guess, but

1913
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:51,840
like on a surface level, explain that the because my

1914
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:54,319
dad always makes it an argument instead of like just

1915
01:54:54,359 --> 01:54:58,119
a discussion. How would you, like, surface level explain that, yes,

1916
01:54:58,199 --> 01:55:02,520
there are Jews, the true Israel is the Church without

1917
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:05,119
like I guess something that might be a conflict.

1918
01:55:07,079 --> 01:55:11,039
Speaker 2: Well, there is a conflict there, because the that's the

1919
01:55:11,079 --> 01:55:14,880
only one that counts for anything. So I mean, that's

1920
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:18,640
Paul's point is that even though they might be still

1921
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:21,600
able to be called Jews in the sense of Abraham's

1922
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:25,880
biological descendants, their enemies of the Gospel unless they repent.

1923
01:55:26,119 --> 01:55:28,159
So there is a conflict there, and there's no way

1924
01:55:28,199 --> 01:55:32,760
to remove that conflict without removing the cross which christ where,

1925
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:36,600
which Paul says, is an offense to those who disagree Christopher.

1926
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:47,960
What's up, hey, Jay? Can you hear me? Yes, sir, Hey,

1927
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:48,520
what's going on?

1928
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:48,760
Speaker 19: Man?

1929
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 53: Congratulations on that freaking SmackDown yesterday?

1930
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:55,239
Speaker 10: That was hilarious.

1931
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:59,359
Speaker 53: Second theologians, That's like, was absolutely ridiculous. I didn't even

1932
01:55:59,399 --> 01:56:00,439
catch that the first time.

1933
01:56:02,279 --> 01:56:05,159
Speaker 2: That was I also think that when I said Apostolic college,

1934
01:56:06,039 --> 01:56:09,159
I thought he was joking, But upon review, I think

1935
01:56:09,159 --> 01:56:11,159
he really thought I was saying, like the Apostles went

1936
01:56:11,199 --> 01:56:13,439
to college. No, yeah, he thought you were dumb.

1937
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:14,920
Speaker 34: He was thinking this guy's an idiot.

1938
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:18,039
Speaker 2: And yeah, he didn't even know what the term epistolic

1939
01:56:18,079 --> 01:56:20,239
college meant. That is so funny.

1940
01:56:20,439 --> 01:56:23,279
Speaker 53: That was That was a good little Everybody was just

1941
01:56:23,359 --> 01:56:24,640
riffing on that joke right there.

1942
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:25,600
Speaker 12: That was hilarious.

1943
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:27,760
Speaker 23: That's gonna that's gonna go down in the history books.

1944
01:56:28,399 --> 01:56:30,039
Speaker 2: Did you see how mad he was today with all

1945
01:56:30,119 --> 01:56:31,279
the crazy stuff he was saying.

1946
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:34,880
Speaker 53: He was so mad and he's just coping, right, And

1947
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:39,359
that's I wanted to ask you about Christian Zionism because

1948
01:56:40,399 --> 01:56:44,680
I am a catech human in the antiochan Orthodox parish,

1949
01:56:45,279 --> 01:56:51,439
and I came from an Evangelical church that was heavily Zionist,

1950
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:55,000
and something that I never even knew when I was

1951
01:56:55,039 --> 01:56:58,960
going to that church was that the things in the

1952
01:56:59,039 --> 01:57:02,199
tal Mood that are so anti Christian. And what I

1953
01:57:02,239 --> 01:57:06,159
wanted to know from you is is that even is

1954
01:57:06,159 --> 01:57:09,279
that a good point when talking to Christian Zionists to

1955
01:57:09,359 --> 01:57:12,640
bring up the Talmud and all the anti Christian statements

1956
01:57:12,680 --> 01:57:13,359
that are in it, or.

1957
01:57:13,359 --> 01:57:16,199
Speaker 2: Is that a relevant point? I would actually say that

1958
01:57:16,279 --> 01:57:19,760
if you get the book by who's actually Jewish scholars.

1959
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:23,399
Name's Peter Schaeffer, and he's actually one of the many

1960
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:26,680
modern Jewish theologians who has admitted, for example, that the

1961
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:30,319
Old Testament is not Unitarian, that it teaches a multiplicity

1962
01:57:30,319 --> 01:57:33,760
of persons in God. Schaeffer has a book called Jesus

1963
01:57:33,760 --> 01:57:36,720
in the Talmud, and it's an academic text from Princeton.

1964
01:57:37,399 --> 01:57:41,000
So that's useful in this debate because it's obviously not

1965
01:57:42,039 --> 01:57:44,359
since it's written by a Jewish guy and it's from

1966
01:57:44,399 --> 01:57:47,479
an academic publisher. It's not a conspiracy text. So it's

1967
01:57:47,479 --> 01:57:52,039
a lot harder for people to say because Chapter eight

1968
01:57:52,199 --> 01:57:55,560
is about jesus punishment in hell in the Talmud.

1969
01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 3: So that's all true. But the thing is that