Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: This is Kaihamann from Lauf, Germany, and I play it
Speaker 2: golf Club laut Houfen.
Speaker 3: This is Goolf Smarter number nine hundred eighty four. When
Speaker 3: you first got into this business and you would walk
Speaker 3: into an industry room, heads would turn and go, he's
Speaker 3: not one of us. He doesn't look like us, he
Speaker 3: doesn't talk like us. Through this guy, and now you
Speaker 3: walk in the room, heads turn going, how do we
Speaker 3: do like him?
Speaker 2: This is not an exaggeration. I mean people literally used
Speaker 2: to point and laugh at me, like I would look
Speaker 2: up and I'd see the other bags across the green
Speaker 2: and they just never at any time took us.
Speaker 1: Seriously in any way. But even last year, I.
Speaker 2: Mean people were really starting to be much nicer and
Speaker 2: complimentary and come up and shake hands with very respectful appreciations.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I didn't know how hard it would be,
Speaker 2: and if I did, I don't know that I would
Speaker 2: have done it. And so I think that in addition
Speaker 2: to the respect for the technology that a lot of
Speaker 2: the other companies are now exhibiting, I think they also
Speaker 2: appreciate that like going from absolutely nobody from nowhere in
Speaker 2: the middle of the desert and reno to having fifteen
Speaker 2: percent of the putter market.
Speaker 1: It's not something you see every day.
Speaker 3: Padam Scott collaborates on the all new lab Os one
Speaker 3: putter with CEO Sam On. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories,
Speaker 3: tips and insights from great golf minds to help you
Speaker 3: lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,
Speaker 3: Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Sam.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Fred.
Speaker 3: It's great to have you on. You've got news to
Speaker 3: talk about, so that's why we had to have you on.
Speaker 3: But before we get to that important putter news, new
Speaker 3: putter news beat, the Boss videos. Everybody check these out.
Speaker 3: It is so much fun to watch these, and you
Speaker 3: are extremely competitive.
Speaker 1: I've been pretty lucky so far.
Speaker 3: Explain what the Boss videos are.
Speaker 1: So we've just.
Speaker 2: You know, as I've talked about here, a bunch like
Speaker 2: labs really special. And the reason it's so special is
Speaker 2: the people we have, like an incredible team of folks here.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that we've done that's a
Speaker 2: little bit different than a lot of golf companies is
Speaker 2: that we really really prioritize golf.
Speaker 1: If you if you look.
Speaker 2: Kind of throughout the industry, like any industry, you know,
Speaker 2: the work is hard and time consuming, and golf is
Speaker 2: hard and time consuming, and if you have kind of
Speaker 2: a big job within the industry, it's really difficult to
Speaker 2: get out and play and to practice and all that.
Speaker 2: We're lucky enough that our factory just sits right here
Speaker 2: on a golf course.
Speaker 1: You know. You came out to visit us and amazing,
Speaker 1: it's awesome, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's a strong course to you know, really really
Speaker 2: tough track and usually in pretty good shape.
Speaker 3: And the University of Oregon's golf team.
Speaker 1: Is right correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was watching a video about the team
Speaker 3: and their whole area there, and I'm like, wait a minute,
Speaker 3: I know that golf course.
Speaker 1: I played there with Sam totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's it's really good, good course, and you know,
Speaker 2: and and and consequently, we've got some good players who
Speaker 2: are still good, you know, whose games are still sharp
Speaker 2: because you know, we make sure that they get out
Speaker 2: to practice and play and and so you know, like
Speaker 2: I I've got, you know, my job here and which
Speaker 2: puts me in front of the camera a lot and
Speaker 2: a lot of folks know who I am. But almost
Speaker 2: across the board when people come to visit us, they're
Speaker 2: blown away at how many people there are, and how
Speaker 2: big the operation is and and how many, you know,
Speaker 2: really awesome players we have. And so the idea started
Speaker 2: as just to kind of use these little nine hole
Speaker 2: matches as an opportunity to introduce the world to to
Speaker 2: a lot of the folks that make Labs so special.
Speaker 2: And then it's sort of evolved into you know, not
Speaker 2: just employees, but you know, media partners and and and
Speaker 2: and social media collaborators and just people that we have
Speaker 2: any kind of connection with, and it's an opportunity just
Speaker 2: to get to know people. There's so much that happens
Speaker 2: in this industry that the general consumer would never know about.
Speaker 2: There's so many people that have such a massive influence
Speaker 2: on the game, and so this is just a really
Speaker 2: fun opportunity to get those folks in front of a
Speaker 2: camera so that the rest of the world can can
Speaker 2: know who they are and what they do. And yes,
Speaker 2: so far, I've I've I think, I think, we've we've three,
Speaker 2: we we've recorded five. Now three of them have already
Speaker 2: been out. I'm through those three. I remain undefeated, but
Speaker 2: I'm totally honest. There's definitely about a half a dozen
Speaker 2: guys inside this building that I've been ducking until until
Speaker 2: my game feels.
Speaker 1: A little sharper.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we were lucky enough when we came up
Speaker 3: and visited you to do some video of the tour.
Speaker 3: So hopefully people have gone in and seen the tour
Speaker 3: of Lab Golf and the factory that you guys have.
Speaker 3: But you're one of those people that before Lab Golf,
Speaker 3: you weren't in the industry, correct right now, you were
Speaker 3: just a consumer and a golf junkie. What is it
Speaker 3: that surprises you about the industry that you've been in.
Speaker 3: You talk about all these things that people don't know
Speaker 3: about in the industry until you get there. What about you?
Speaker 1: What was the big surprise or.
Speaker 3: Continues to be a big surprise.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: things that are surprising. There's certainly, you know, plenty of
Speaker 2: surprises at the tour level, and hanging out with those
Speaker 2: guys is you know, definitely been an interesting perspective. And
Speaker 2: I've yeah, I've been surprised quite a few times out
Speaker 2: on tour, but specifically related to the equipment industry, I
Speaker 2: think I was surprised to find out what a machine
Speaker 2: it is, you know, and you know, kind of the more.
Speaker 1: Time I've been in the.
Speaker 2: Industry, like the whole Carl's Bad scene is it's wild,
Speaker 2: you know explained. Well, it's just they're all there, you know,
Speaker 2: like all the you know, Callaway and Titleist and tailor Made,
Speaker 2: and you know, half a dozen other smaller companies are
Speaker 2: all right there in Carlsbad.
Speaker 1: And so it's like this.
Speaker 2: It's a highly competitive industry, more more so than I
Speaker 2: think a lot of other consumer brands. And with a
Speaker 2: few exceptions in you know, kind of recent history, the
Speaker 2: last forty fifty years, for the most part, golf is
Speaker 2: a is a market share war, and each company is
Speaker 2: just trying to kind of take from the other one.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: There isn't a ton of effort made to sort of
Speaker 2: grow the entire industry. And I've been like surprise, and
Speaker 2: I guess, frankly a little disappointed to find out how
Speaker 2: little consideration there is for genuine innovation. The folks within
Speaker 2: the R and D departments of every company are exactly
Speaker 2: who you hope they are. They're they're brilliant, they're educated,
Speaker 2: they're talented, they have you know, interesting insight into equipment,
Speaker 2: they're trying to push boundaries, they're trying.
Speaker 1: To improve.
Speaker 2: And then you know, as we've gotten bigger and you know,
Speaker 2: can't be as like completely nimble as we used to be,
Speaker 2: where you know, as soon as the putter was ready,
Speaker 2: we could just release it.
Speaker 1: You know, now we can't do that.
Speaker 2: There's you know, there's you know, retail relationships and marketing
Speaker 2: and you know, it's just a it's just a bigger
Speaker 2: operation to the point that we need to be a
Speaker 2: little bit more deliberate about everything, and we are committed
Speaker 2: to making sure that our research and development.
Speaker 1: Drives are our product release schedule.
Speaker 2: And I think it gets to a point where a
Speaker 2: lot of these OEMs unfortunately kind of need to make
Speaker 2: let marketing dictate what does and does not come to market.
Speaker 1: And so that's been you know, I guess a little surprising.
Speaker 2: Like I guess I just assumed that the whole industry
Speaker 2: was full of a bunch of folks like us here
Speaker 2: at LAB you know that are just total golf chunkies
Speaker 2: and and and just nerding out. But you know, and
Speaker 2: this is this is not a judgment at all. It's
Speaker 2: it's a business. You know, in a big one. And
Speaker 2: you know, in some of these cases, you know, with
Speaker 2: the larger OEMs. I mean, these are billion dollar corporations
Speaker 2: that have to be very, very deliberate about everything that
Speaker 2: they do. And unfortunately, you know, releasing only that which
Speaker 2: is a genuine improvement over the product before isn't necessarily
Speaker 2: you know, the priority. No, they got to get market,
Speaker 2: you know, they got to get product to market. They
Speaker 2: got to you know, day in front of the cameras and.
Speaker 3: Paint the head white. That'll do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, stuff like that. What else has been
Speaker 1: surprising about the industry.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious that I'm going to go back to
Speaker 3: what you said about the R and D folks that
Speaker 3: are all down there and stuff. Do they have their
Speaker 3: own community from company to company or do they isolate themselves.
Speaker 1: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't really know. I haven't I've been
Speaker 2: down there a little bit lately with some other projects,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. You know, we've we've only just recently,
Speaker 2: we had been very deliberate about hiring outside of the industry.
Speaker 1: Lately, we've we've we've brought on a few folks that have.
Speaker 2: Some experience in Carlsbad and and kind of the whole
Speaker 2: scene a bounced you know, back and forth between different companies.
Speaker 2: I mean like that that's the one of the funniest things.
Speaker 2: It's just like the straight like human horse trading that
Speaker 2: happens like where I mean, there's these guys that have
Speaker 2: you know, worked in Earnest for all three you know,
Speaker 2: major OEMs down there, and you know, California has no
Speaker 2: noncompete laws, so there's there's always just this game of
Speaker 2: you know, trying to steal this guy, and if you
Speaker 2: steal that guy, I mean to steal this guy. And
Speaker 2: you know, it all just gets mixed around, like like recently,
Speaker 2: Oustie Rollins, who was one of the guys that designed
Speaker 2: a lot of putters for Odyssey, including the Jailbird.
Speaker 1: He works for Scotty Cameron.
Speaker 2: Now, so he was with Odyssey forever and now he's
Speaker 2: over at the Scotty Cameron and you know, you can
Speaker 2: see his influence in those putters that they just came
Speaker 2: out with that sort of have that that versa you know,
Speaker 2: silver black, silver thing going on, and you know, have
Speaker 2: a similar resemblance to to some of the Odyssey shapes,
Speaker 2: and so you know, I don't know if they have
Speaker 2: like a R and d uh weekend support group for
Speaker 2: each other or not.
Speaker 1: They all seem to know each other.
Speaker 2: And you know it's funny too, like a lot of them.
Speaker 2: Will you know, We've got a guy who works here
Speaker 2: who you know, is really really tight with guys that
Speaker 2: work for our competitors, and they have to have these
Speaker 2: conversations and just never mentioned golf.
Speaker 1: You know, it's all it's all families and.
Speaker 2: You know whatever else because their nbas prevent them from
Speaker 2: actually talking shop and.
Speaker 3: The phone calls are being recorded. Yeah, exactly right, they
Speaker 3: are listening. George Lucas, Francis Ford Coppola moved their production
Speaker 3: operations to northern California so they didn't have to deal
Speaker 3: with Los Angeles and the business of movie making, right.
Speaker 3: They wanted to be independent as movie makers to make
Speaker 3: what they wanted to make. And you're saying, everybody's down
Speaker 3: in Carlsbad and you've isolated yourself in this little corner
Speaker 3: of Oregon. Is that intentional or now in retrospect or
Speaker 3: you're going, oh, maybe we should have been down there.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I I mean the location itself is beautiful.
Speaker 2: I was just last week for the PGA Tour Superstore
Speaker 2: Vendor summit, so like the superstar asshole come and talk
Speaker 2: about all the different products and everything, and yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Arm We had a house, you know, right on the cliff,
Speaker 2: and that part of it is pretty appealing.
Speaker 1: The rest of it. No, I I'm really grateful that
Speaker 1: we're up here. No, we did not.
Speaker 2: We did not intend, you know, to separate ourselves. It's
Speaker 2: just where I lived, you know, I had. I had,
Speaker 2: you know, when when we stopped doing stuff in Reno, and.
Speaker 3: That's where he was.
Speaker 1: That's where Bill was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where the we had a little factory
Speaker 2: in Carson City. And and then when he stopped handling
Speaker 2: the day to day stuff, you know, I needed to
Speaker 2: be more involved. So we moved the company up here
Speaker 2: just because is where I lived. And it wasn't you know,
Speaker 2: the company was tiny at that point. It wasn't like
Speaker 2: there was you know, massive implications around having a talent
Speaker 2: pool to hire from, or you know, tax implications or
Speaker 2: you know things like that which aren't great. You know,
Speaker 2: up here in Oregon there's serious corporate tax nine percent,
Speaker 2: and then you know, yeah, there's there's not a huge
Speaker 2: talent pool pool of you know, golf specific folks. However,
Speaker 2: we've found that for our manufacturing process that isn't really
Speaker 2: as important.
Speaker 1: It does get difficult, Like we're working.
Speaker 2: On, uh, you know, growing our R and D team significantly.
Speaker 1: That's tough, you know.
Speaker 2: Being in in in Eugene, but I'm not sure I'd
Speaker 2: prefer to be in Carlsbad, you know. And and the
Speaker 2: analogy I can think of as is, you know, in
Speaker 2: the bar business, you know, where whenever we needed to
Speaker 2: hire a bartender, there was always kind of this you know,
Speaker 2: question as to whether or not you wanted to hire
Speaker 2: somebody with experience, or whether or not you wanted to
Speaker 2: hire somebody that had never done it before. The advantage
Speaker 2: of hiring somebody experience is that your training process is
Speaker 2: a week and a half long.
Speaker 1: You need to teach them, you know, the.
Speaker 2: Little nuances of how your bar works versus other bars.
Speaker 2: But the drawback of that is that they're always going
Speaker 2: to make an old fashioned the way that they make
Speaker 2: an old fashioned, even if it's not the way that
Speaker 2: you know that our bar makes an old fashioned, and
Speaker 2: it's and they kind of get, you know, stuck and
Speaker 2: doing things a certain way it's similar here where you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not positive i'd want engineers that have worked at
Speaker 2: other companies. I mean, particularly in the putter business.
Speaker 1: You know, the we.
Speaker 3: The lab broke the mold.
Speaker 2: We broke them old, and we found that a lot
Speaker 2: of the folks within the industry still have a hard
Speaker 2: time accepting that. And so pulling from within that industry
Speaker 2: to have to like can vinced somebody that something special
Speaker 2: is going on here is a little bit more tedious
Speaker 2: than you know, having somebody who's never done this kind
Speaker 2: of work before, and at least specifically in the golf business.
Speaker 2: So it's got its pros and cons. But I mean
Speaker 2: the biggest pro is the golf. I mean that we
Speaker 2: sit on a you know, there's no opportunity like this
Speaker 2: anywhere in Carlsbad golf is. It's impossible to play golf
Speaker 2: in Carlsbad unless you you know, belong to a private club,
Speaker 2: like you know, public.
Speaker 1: Totally.
Speaker 2: And you know that that we have, you know, this
Speaker 2: incredible practice facility and this huge golf course and you know,
Speaker 2: all of this right here is definitely something I wouldn't
Speaker 2: trade for anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So when you and I first started speaking,
Speaker 3: when I first became a lab rat back I don't
Speaker 3: know about five years ago. I guess twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably would have been nineteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you bought the company in what year?
Speaker 2: So Bill and I met in the summer twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: We kind of got serious about talking about partnering in
Speaker 2: the fall, and then by spring of twenty eighteen it
Speaker 2: was official.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So it was either end of eighteen beginning
Speaker 3: of nineteen that we first met. You had like fifteen
Speaker 3: eighteen employees at the time.
Speaker 1: Oh, probably less than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we probably had I think when we
Speaker 2: moved to Eugene, which was in twenty twenty. I want
Speaker 2: to say we can't. I think we had twelve wow,
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: And twenty twenty five. As we start the new year.
Speaker 1: I think about one hundred and eighty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you own the building.
Speaker 2: We don't own the building, but we do have a
Speaker 2: nice lease on it. And we now have the whole building,
Speaker 2: whereas we used to kind of be in one junk
Speaker 2: over here at barbershops there and whatever.
Speaker 1: Barbershops still there for the moment.
Speaker 2: But yes, she's going to be moving to downtown Creswell
Speaker 2: and hopefully be a better spot for her.
Speaker 1: We'll have a nice, fancy new break.
Speaker 3: Room, and then there's some space that can be grow.
Speaker 3: You can grow your space there as well.
Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, there's there's a there's another lot across the.
Speaker 2: Street, and you know, should we need it, the space
Speaker 2: is there.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's amazing. Can a company survive with just a product,
Speaker 3: meaning a Putter, because not many of the OEMs just
Speaker 3: do one type of club?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all evidence would say yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: we're doing it.
Speaker 1: It actually occurred to us. I think we're probably the I.
Speaker 2: Can't think of anybody else who would be able to
Speaker 2: claim this, but I think that we are the largest
Speaker 2: standalone putter company in the history of the game.
Speaker 3: Wow. Well, I've been telling people you're the hottest company
Speaker 3: in the industry.
Speaker 2: For sure, fastest growing, for sure, But I I don't
Speaker 2: I can't think of another standalone putter company that ever
Speaker 2: made it to the heights that we did before, you know,
Speaker 2: either getting absorbed by a bigger OEM or when.
Speaker 3: Tiger started using the Scottie Cameron.
Speaker 1: That was a Titleist product.
Speaker 3: It was a Titleist product, okay, And before.
Speaker 2: And before that he was he was with Mizuno and
Speaker 2: and I also even then, I don't I don't think
Speaker 2: Scotty Cameron was as big as Lab is now. They
Speaker 2: are now, obviously, but you know when it started out,
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't think so. So yeah, I mean yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, obviously Cameron is kind of a standalone brand,
Speaker 2: you know, aside from Titleist or whatever. But I mean
Speaker 2: totally bootstrapping it. I know of no putter company that's ever,
Speaker 2: you know, made as big as Splash as we have
Speaker 2: these last few years.
Speaker 3: And the key to that was success on the tour.
Speaker 1: It certainly helped.
Speaker 2: I mean there, you know, they're through our entire company
Speaker 2: history at this point is just a series of lucky
Speaker 2: breaks and you know, timing and.
Speaker 1: You know all that. But I mean, even without the tour,
Speaker 1: the company was on a.
Speaker 2: You know, significant trajectory, even before Lucas and all that
Speaker 2: that craziness.
Speaker 1: It certainly helps.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And it was when Lucas won two weeks
Speaker 3: in a row after being just documented of struggling for
Speaker 3: a decade with his putting. Then he won two weeks
Speaker 3: in a row, and he had a Lab broomstick in
Speaker 3: his hand, and everyone took notice. Even though a lot
Speaker 3: of people were going, wait a minute, Adam Scott's.
Speaker 1: Playing, we have to call it. We have to call
Speaker 1: them sweepers. Now, by the way, we can't call them
Speaker 1: broomsticks anymore.
Speaker 3: Oh really? Why?
Speaker 2: Oh no, Calorie managed to somehow trademark the word broomstick
Speaker 2: and sent us a cease and desist. Oh my gosh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we now call them sweepers. So, yes, Lucas was using
Speaker 2: a MEZ sweeper, but.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a sweeper at the time.
Speaker 1: No, no, it sure wasn't.
Speaker 3: That must have been all hands on deck. We just
Speaker 3: got this season desist letter. What was the reaction to that?
Speaker 1: Just like I I mean, it was. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just so petty, and.
Speaker 2: You know, and the unfortunate thing is it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: they got a guy, you know, their their legal teams
Speaker 2: doing their job. They're trying trademark and patent whatever you can, right,
Speaker 2: and it's a little weird that they went and did it.
Speaker 2: It's certainly weird that they enforced it, but you know,
Speaker 2: that's their prerogative. But it's just the biggest failing in
Speaker 2: all of this is just that the US Patent Office
Speaker 2: allowed them to trademark a household item is wild and
Speaker 2: like if we wanted to do anything about it, the
Speaker 2: actions with them not callaway end, which we got better
Speaker 2: things to do.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like the time I got pulled over
Speaker 3: by a young cop and I was not young. I'm like,
Speaker 3: what do you want? You know? What can I do?
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but you have something better to do this.
Speaker 3: I didn't do anything. Can we be alone? Oh? God?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: So what happens? No, what would it take beyond just cash?
Speaker 3: Or is it just cash for someone to come to
Speaker 3: you say we want we want to put our brand
Speaker 3: on lab putters. We want to buy your company?
Speaker 1: Oh like another OEM?
Speaker 3: Sure no elon Musk.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't personally see you know, if there is to
Speaker 2: be somebody out there to to to buy us, I
Speaker 2: would doubt very much it would be another OEM at
Speaker 2: this point. At this point, it's just too expensive for them,
Speaker 2: you know, like the And this kind of goes back
Speaker 2: to what I was saying a second ago, where there's
Speaker 2: just there really isn't precedent for a standalone you know,
Speaker 2: technology or or company that you know is achieving what
Speaker 2: we've achieved in the market, and so it's gotten to
Speaker 2: the point where, like a lot of times, what you'll
Speaker 2: see is these OEMs if they see emerging technology, a
Speaker 2: lot of times they buy it and just put it
Speaker 2: on the shelf just to protect themselves from you know,
Speaker 2: getting out TechEd. Multiple companies have their opportunity with us
Speaker 2: and and you know, ultimately passed on it. And then
Speaker 2: I think it was surprising to everyone how how you know,
Speaker 2: how big a share we ended up, big a market
Speaker 2: share we've we've ended up with, But there's all the
Speaker 2: writing on the wall, and then you know, kind of
Speaker 2: getting priced out of being a reasonable option for them
Speaker 2: to just kind of buy and put it in a drawer.
Speaker 1: It's just too big a company now.
Speaker 2: So now what you're saying instead is them, you know,
Speaker 2: attempting to compete with the technology, which you know is inevitable.
Speaker 2: And we knew, we knew we'd see it at some point,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I think I think that's what's that's
Speaker 2: what's going to continue to happen. I think we'll see,
Speaker 2: you know, putters that are claiming similar technologies to us
Speaker 2: continue to pop up from every brand over the course
Speaker 2: of the next you know, eighteen months.
Speaker 3: Or so yeah, we'll get into that. We'll get into that,
Speaker 3: but it's probably more like if they're going to buy it,
Speaker 3: they're just coming in to buy your patents, not your products.
Speaker 2: Well that I mean that that's kind of the reason
Speaker 2: why they wouldn't is that at this point it would be, well,
Speaker 2: it's too big, and it would be it would be
Speaker 2: silly for them to shut it down. It's it's a
Speaker 2: it's a healthy company. It's profitable. It you know, it
Speaker 2: has a presence, it has tour players, it has all
Speaker 2: the stuff like it's not like it's not like some
Speaker 2: small emerging company. You know, there would be no reason
Speaker 2: for them to just shut it down and put it
Speaker 2: in a drawer because it's a healthy company. At the
Speaker 2: same time, it's it's complicated to try to like own
Speaker 2: two brands, you know, so it would make sense. It
Speaker 2: would make sense for a company that doesn't have like
Speaker 2: a huge you know, have any putter you know, uh uh,
Speaker 2: you know, anything in the putter in the Potter space,
Speaker 2: like a strick sound for instance.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They do never compromise, I think, or maybe Cleveland does.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly how that whole company works, and
Speaker 2: so maybe something like that, or or a company that
Speaker 2: struggled to kind of have putters be a significant part
Speaker 2: of their business, like a like a PXG or or
Speaker 2: a Cobra or you know, somebody like that that's that's
Speaker 2: got some product in the potter space, but never really
Speaker 2: you know, made a huge splash. Might make some sense
Speaker 2: for for something like that, but you know, I frankly
Speaker 2: don't see it, and it would have to be we
Speaker 2: wouldn't entertain anything that wouldn't allow us to contain you
Speaker 2: to effectively operate the way that we operate with our
Speaker 2: own brand, with our people in our building here in Creswell.
Speaker 1: And so you know, if you're a if you're a
Speaker 1: major OEM.
Speaker 2: From Carlsbad, and you know, maybe there's a nice opportunity here.
Speaker 2: It's a weird thing to be a billion dollar company
Speaker 2: and just allow for this little siloed you know, group
Speaker 2: of folks up in Eugene to just do their own thing. So,
Speaker 2: you know, if anybody was to ever buy us, my
Speaker 2: guess is it's you know, private equity or some some
Speaker 2: kind of somebody that's strategic in the manufacturing space or
Speaker 2: something like that. I at this point, I think the
Speaker 2: the OEM.
Speaker 1: Acquisition ship has probably sailed.
Speaker 3: But the reason I really wanted to get you back
Speaker 3: on the show today is because the last time you
Speaker 3: were on, it was on what we were doing face
Speaker 3: to face on the computers. You are just about to
Speaker 3: introduce the DF three, and then I came to visit
Speaker 3: you and we did a a demo of you teaching
Speaker 3: me the sweeper. Anybody listening, we didn't say that B word.
Speaker 3: This sweet.
Speaker 1: We can say it, we just can't advertise it. And
Speaker 1: if we can't advertise it, I don't want anybody say
Speaker 1: any get it.
Speaker 3: But you've come up with another new putter. And what's
Speaker 3: very exciting about this one is you worked with to
Speaker 3: quote you, you worked with Adam freak and Scott You
Speaker 3: interviewed him. You were like, you're Adam freaking Scott Man,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, no, no, no, you're Sam freaking han Man.
Speaker 3: You've done it too. You are a star. So, but
Speaker 3: you've got a new a new putter, new design, but
Speaker 3: it's still with the science that has been developed for
Speaker 3: the directed force and beyond. Let's hear the story about this,
Speaker 3: how this came about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the putter you're you're talking about it's called
Speaker 2: oz One. And it all started just kind of it
Speaker 2: started with Adam. So we were he and I were
Speaker 2: together in Los Angeles in twenty two, I think it
Speaker 2: was he was there for the Rivier event. We played
Speaker 2: some golf together at at Los Angeles Country Club. We
Speaker 2: had a great round and in a really fun day, and.
Speaker 1: Then we were just sitting in the clubhouse and.
Speaker 2: And just talking and and we want, you know, he's
Speaker 2: been so good to us, and he's really helped put
Speaker 2: us on the map more than just using the putter.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's out there on tour and talking to
Speaker 2: folks about it and he really helps us out. And
Speaker 2: he's he's never asked for a dollar. He's never you know,
Speaker 2: he's just been such a gentleman about it. And we
Speaker 2: wanted to do something for him. So the idea, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of started there. Having mentioned one day he'd love
Speaker 2: to design a putter. I thought, we, why don't we,
Speaker 2: you know, design a putter together. You could take a
Speaker 2: little slice of it. And you know, we since actually
Speaker 2: ended up working out a different deal, but but.
Speaker 1: That was sort of the starting point.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, as you know, as the story goes,
Speaker 2: we literally started drawing putters on napkins that in the
Speaker 2: in the bar at L A C C. And kind
Speaker 2: of got a starting point of of what we wanted
Speaker 2: it to look like. And and then you know, sort
Speaker 2: of engaged more officially on on this endeavor, and.
Speaker 1: Gosh, eight.
Speaker 2: Twelve months later we had a finalized design and then
Speaker 2: another six months of sort of the pre work of
Speaker 2: of of releasing a putter. And but it.
Speaker 1: Was really really cool.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had we had ideas, you know, about
Speaker 2: what where we were going to be going with our
Speaker 2: next product. Anyway, it it it lined up with you know,
Speaker 2: kind of what Adam was looking for, and.
Speaker 1: Which was what just a D shaped mallet.
Speaker 2: You know, we we we had sort of checked off
Speaker 2: our version of you know, a fang putter, our version
Speaker 2: of of sort of a simple blade putter. We'd you
Speaker 2: know acquiesced to uh those out there who liked the
Speaker 2: idea behind the DF, but it was too much, you know,
Speaker 2: too big, So we made the d F three and
Speaker 2: so there was you know, space in our lineup for
Speaker 2: for sort of a a D shaped mallet, and so
Speaker 2: we were aligned there and then you know, it was
Speaker 2: a really fun process, a really fun creative process.
Speaker 1: He came out to Eugene.
Speaker 2: We spent a couple of days together with some you know,
Speaker 2: basic uh uh CAD drawings and stuff, and he would
Speaker 2: go through and say what he liked about this one
Speaker 2: and didn't like about that one. And then then we
Speaker 2: started three D printing you know, plastic prototypes just for
Speaker 2: for shape and aesthetics and stuff like that, and then
Speaker 2: got there fairly well, uh arrowed down to just a
Speaker 2: couple of shapes, and then and then we started making
Speaker 2: them out of aluminum and we'd send them to them,
Speaker 2: he'd give us feedback, and at this point we're also
Speaker 2: passing it around to our guys here at the shop to.
Speaker 1: To really start to refine it.
Speaker 2: And then once you know, the basic shape, sound, feel,
Speaker 2: all that stuff is decided, then the really hard work
Speaker 2: begins for the guys downstairs, where you know, engineering a
Speaker 2: putter to balance at a single lie angle and a
Speaker 2: couple of lengths.
Speaker 1: Is really hard. But not you know, not monumental.
Speaker 2: Having a chassis that can be balanced at any length,
Speaker 2: any lie any swing weight, this is challenging. This is
Speaker 2: a major major engineering feat. And so once all that
Speaker 2: stuff was decided, you know, like and even even Adam
Speaker 2: was wondering, like, you know, what's it's taken so long,
Speaker 2: you know, because once we have the shape, it was
Speaker 2: like it should have gone pretty quick, and uh, and
Speaker 2: it doesn't because you know, getting you know, the waite
Speaker 2: ports to be in the right spot and the shaft
Speaker 2: to be in exactly the right spot, you know, to
Speaker 2: with you know, tolerances of you know, a thousandth of
Speaker 2: an inch and you know, it's.
Speaker 1: It's it's real tricky.
Speaker 2: And so to the point where even still we're we're
Speaker 2: still you know, the chassis and everything is ready to
Speaker 2: go for the sweeper version, but the engineering side of it, we're.
Speaker 1: Still we're still screwing with It's still hard. So but
Speaker 1: we're getting there.
Speaker 3: I was gonna I was going to ask it was
Speaker 3: there times where Adam would suggest something or come up
Speaker 3: with something and your team would just be going not so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was you know a couple of things that
Speaker 2: he liked. Like we've uh, you know, ultimately, once once
Speaker 2: every part of the the model that we're going to
Speaker 2: be released we're leasing to the public is all done
Speaker 2: and released. You know, he's Adam Scott, so we will
Speaker 2: make him whatever he wants, and so if there's you know,
Speaker 2: slight modifications to the design that he'd like to see,
Speaker 2: we can we can accommodate that, actually, and not even
Speaker 2: so much on the Putter design were we were pretty
Speaker 2: we were pretty aligned.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: There was one you know, a couple cuts here and
Speaker 2: you know, fill it there or whatever that were that
Speaker 2: were what they were. But the graphics on the bottom,
Speaker 2: you know, just simple stuff just you know, where we're
Speaker 2: lasering the logo and the the OS one logo and
Speaker 2: the you know, we did a special release with him
Speaker 2: that had some more you know, sort of in depth
Speaker 2: graphics and stuff like that, and there there was one
Speaker 2: round of graphics and we were really up against deadlines
Speaker 2: and it was it was such a shake up. But
Speaker 2: like the graphics team had sent him some stuff for
Speaker 2: approval and I hadn't seen it, and then the one
Speaker 2: that he chose was like the one out of six
Speaker 2: that was like absolutely.
Speaker 1: Not so we had to go back and say, like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to pick again.
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, he's everybody was really aligned on
Speaker 2: what we wanted this thing to look, sound feel like.
Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, it was not a terribly tedious process.
Speaker 3: You guys must have a collection of bar napkins with
Speaker 3: drawings on them. You're gonna have your own like napkin
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame. Here's the ball sack with the original logo.
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, yeah, this is great. It's like, no, it's
Speaker 3: not good. So what is different from the OZ one
Speaker 3: and from the most recent DF three? But then you
Speaker 3: also have a new blade, right? You have the link?
Speaker 3: Is it links?
Speaker 1: Link one's been out for a few years now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean mostly mallets though, you know recently, I
Speaker 4: mean yeah, I mean what you're doing these days is
Speaker 4: mostly the bigger headed putters.
Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah. In OZ.
Speaker 2: Every time we make a new putter, the vast majority
Speaker 2: of the intent is around listening to what folks want,
Speaker 2: you know, and so over the last you know, four
Speaker 2: or five years, definitely, one of the big complaints that
Speaker 2: we've gotten is about aesthetics, of course, and we'll get
Speaker 2: to that in a second. But you know, another one
Speaker 2: was about sound, feel and ball speed, and so we
Speaker 2: make all of our putters out of aluminum, which is
Speaker 2: a softer material than a stainless steel or a carbon steel,
Speaker 2: which does impact the ball speed. Additionally, because of the
Speaker 2: nature of our technology, the shaft has to be located
Speaker 2: pretty far away from the so the further the center
Speaker 2: of mask gets from the face, the slower the ball speed.
Speaker 2: So we have a soft material. Then we have some
Speaker 2: grooves to help with ball roll, and some sound and feel,
Speaker 2: and this really deep CG and you add all those
Speaker 2: things up and you have a really big putter that
Speaker 2: hits the ball very very softly, which for a lot
Speaker 2: of people is kind of, you know, awkward. So we
Speaker 2: had some and then additionally, because it's aluminum, and because
Speaker 2: there's holes and there's this, and there's that, a lot
Speaker 2: of times the sound isn't exactly what people are hoping for.
Speaker 2: Some of the earlier messes for instance, you know, and
Speaker 2: the DF two point one still have kind of a
Speaker 2: you know, a tink to them that isn't desirable for
Speaker 2: a lot of people. So we wanted to solve for
Speaker 2: the sound and the ball speed issue with OZ and
Speaker 2: to that end, we were able to get the CG
Speaker 2: way forward. And one of the sort of accidental benefits
Speaker 2: of getting it that far forward was that we started
Speaker 2: experimenting with a zero shaft lean option, which enables people
Speaker 2: to use their favorite grip, which is another one of
Speaker 2: the complaints that we get where they like these putters,
Speaker 2: and they like the science, they like the concept. But
Speaker 2: you know, because of our angled grip, we only have
Speaker 2: so many shapes, and if you know, you don't happen
Speaker 2: to fit into one of the shapes that we offer,
Speaker 2: you know, you're you're you're kind of out of luck.
Speaker 2: And so OZ has much higher ball speed because of
Speaker 2: the forward CG. The zero shafting is available because of
Speaker 2: the forward CG, which enables you to use any grip
Speaker 2: you want. And then also we've got some optionality now
Speaker 2: around what's on the face, and so we have an
Speaker 2: all aluminum version coming out here in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: The one that we released already is called the OS
Speaker 2: one I I standing for insert, and it's a stainless
Speaker 2: steel insert and balls coming off kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: depending upon a few other factors, between ten and fifteen
Speaker 2: percent faster than some of our other models, which.
Speaker 1: Is a big deal.
Speaker 3: It's a big adjustment.
Speaker 2: That's a big adjustment and you know a lot of
Speaker 2: for sure, it's not I mean that like when people
Speaker 2: will come out and do fittings, you know, in a
Speaker 2: sort of siloed environment, hitting same ten twelve foot put
Speaker 2: over and over again. You're not going to see the
Speaker 2: speed issues as much as when you get out on
Speaker 2: the golf course. And so we you know, do a
Speaker 2: fitting here and build them their putter, and we get
Speaker 2: out on the golf course and they're starting everything online,
Speaker 2: but definitely struggling to adjust to speed the last you know,
Speaker 2: six eight months since we've had ozes around. You know,
Speaker 2: for people to demo, there's no speed adjustment. These things,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of a fall right in line with
Speaker 2: any other putter off the rack.
Speaker 1: For the most part. With the stainless insert, they're coming
Speaker 1: off fast enough that you know, the people aren't needing
Speaker 1: to make too big an adjustment. However, we are noticing
Speaker 1: that people who have been used to LAB putters are
Speaker 1: having some of them are having a harder time with
Speaker 1: the with the stainless insert, particularly out on tour. We've
Speaker 1: got you know, a lot of the insert ones, the
Speaker 1: only ones that are currently available, and a lot of
Speaker 1: the lab user is currently you know, try the o's.
Speaker 2: They like the shape, they like the way it looks
Speaker 2: and sets up and all the stuff, but the feel
Speaker 2: is such a departure from what they're used to do
Speaker 2: with their labs. That they're they're they're waiting around to
Speaker 2: get the all aluminum version.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so the biggest difference between the insert and
Speaker 3: the all aluminum is is the ball speed when it
Speaker 3: comes off.
Speaker 2: Face ball speed, and certainly sound slash feel sound sound
Speaker 2: is feel for the most part. And yeah, there's much
Speaker 2: more of a pronounced click, you know, coming off the
Speaker 2: OS one eye. So so for people who like, you know,
Speaker 2: traditional stainless milled putters, this is not going to be
Speaker 2: a big departure for them to get into an OS.
Speaker 1: It's going to feel very similar.
Speaker 3: How does Adam like it?
Speaker 1: He likes it a lot.
Speaker 2: He's gonna end up on using the aluminum, as my guess,
Speaker 2: we're still a couple probably a couple versions away from
Speaker 2: finalizing the sweeper version, so he's still using his mes.
Speaker 1: Until we get it right. We had one that was
Speaker 1: real close.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, uh, He and a couple other tour players agreed
Speaker 2: that the face was a little deep, just too too
Speaker 2: high off the ground. And because of the engineering realities,
Speaker 2: it's not as simple as just taking the face down.
Speaker 1: Now you've moved the CG and you've.
Speaker 2: Shrunk the depth you know available for the wait ports
Speaker 2: and so you know, everything on the bottom needed to
Speaker 2: get reorganized, and you know it's taken months to to
Speaker 2: make that that simple. I think one point five millimeter
Speaker 2: change in face height.
Speaker 1: So but we're almost there.
Speaker 3: A couple of things about the oz One oz One
Speaker 3: I fitting process the same you guys, just your online
Speaker 3: fitting process, which is truly remarkable and so simple. People
Speaker 3: are like, really, that's all you gotta do, that's all
Speaker 3: you got to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to believe.
Speaker 2: You can take a lot, you know, because if you're
Speaker 2: like a golf nerd, you know, you've gone to a
Speaker 2: Trucepeck or a club champion who fit for our putters
Speaker 2: and they do a great, you know, very thorough job,
Speaker 2: and you're on the Quintic and you're you know, hitting
Speaker 2: a bunch of putts and deciding all kinds of different
Speaker 2: specs on your putter, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: Labs saying you can just take a five second cell
Speaker 2: phone video and send it in and you know, you
Speaker 2: get the same results. And it's hard to believe, but
Speaker 2: it's legit. The remote fitting really does work. But all
Speaker 2: of our retail partners can fit, so if you want
Speaker 2: to do it in person, you can if you want
Speaker 2: to do the online fitting, you can either.
Speaker 1: Either's perfectly fine.
Speaker 2: But if you've already got specs, you've already used a
Speaker 2: lab putter, and your putter lays down flush without as
Speaker 2: you know, without a fight, and you haven't changed anything,
Speaker 2: there's no reason you can't use the same specs.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
Speaker 3: And you know, one of the big changes that you
Speaker 3: made with the DF three versus the direct force two
Speaker 3: point one and the mess and everything else was you
Speaker 3: included your little gimme grabber your balls, which was a
Speaker 3: huge success. People just they say to me, able is that?
Speaker 3: Some persons said to me, is like that a magnet?
Speaker 3: What is that? It's like just a perfect fit for
Speaker 3: a ball, And it's like, wow, that's really cool, and
Speaker 3: that's that's true. Everyone responds to that's a really cool
Speaker 3: way to lift the ball. And what about with the oss.
Speaker 1: You can you can pick it up.
Speaker 2: It's more of a traditional scoop like you would with
Speaker 2: a with a with an answer, with a you know,
Speaker 2: anything with sort of a recessed flange, there easier to
Speaker 2: pick up than.
Speaker 1: A D two point one. I never found out easy.
Speaker 1: Nothing's as easy as the d F three.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and then what about availability, uh for people
Speaker 3: to go and hit some of the retailers. Are they
Speaker 3: getting out there or is it still a direct to
Speaker 3: consumer product?
Speaker 2: So so this month they're all starting to hit the shelves,
Speaker 2: so they'll be available, correct, Yes, yeah, they'll be They'll
Speaker 2: be available for anyone to.
Speaker 1: Touch and feel.
Speaker 2: I think by January twenty fifth, is the hope.
Speaker 3: Wow, okay, awesome, that's great. That's great. So the company
Speaker 3: has been growing because more and more PGA Tour players
Speaker 3: seem to be absorbing it, like I just this past
Speaker 3: weekend was the Sony Open JJ Brown, who is making
Speaker 3: a run on Saturday spawn right spot. He was playing
Speaker 3: DF three right, yeah he was. And last week was
Speaker 3: the premiere of TGL on ESPN. Ricky fell and I've
Speaker 3: got I'm wearing my the Bay Golf Club nice sure already,
Speaker 3: but I loved it. I loved TJL. I thought it
Speaker 3: was really good.
Speaker 1: I didn't get to see it, but everybody said it
Speaker 1: was great.
Speaker 3: Well, it'll be on you know, it's Tuesday nights. And
Speaker 3: Ricky Fowler was using his DF three always.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tour stuff's been great.
Speaker 2: I would say that the growth has actually been more
Speaker 2: attributed to our customers, you know, our customers. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: it's more than word of mouth, you know, like it like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, people people are seeing their friends make putts
Speaker 2: and and then going out and trying it for themselves,
Speaker 2: and so you know, like it's not like.
Speaker 1: You know, heye you hear about this new putter.
Speaker 2: I mean, people are just like straight up evangelists for
Speaker 2: for our company.
Speaker 1: I mean they're out there.
Speaker 2: You know, pushing as hard as they possibly can to
Speaker 2: to help us out.
Speaker 1: And that's why we are where we are. And it's amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's an amazing group of folks that are
Speaker 2: out there using our putter, extolling the virtues and and
Speaker 2: and getting folks to switch. And yes, the tour stuff
Speaker 2: helps validate someone's decision, you know, to go to go
Speaker 2: give it a shot. But we haven't seen you know,
Speaker 2: with tour usage. It used to be that we could
Speaker 2: see in real time on our you know website, you know,
Speaker 2: big spikes in website hits and all that stuff if
Speaker 2: it got on TV. We don't really see that quite
Speaker 2: as much anymore. There's still tiny little spikes here and there.
Speaker 2: It kind of depends upon the moment, depends upon you know,
Speaker 2: the putter, the player, all the stuff. But really it's
Speaker 2: just it's kind of everything, you know, it's all the
Speaker 2: support we've gotten from the folks out on YouTube. It's
Speaker 2: you know, support we get from folks like you, influencers,
Speaker 2: tour players, celebrities, but mostly customers. Mostly just you know,
Speaker 2: the the lab Rats of the world out there pushing
Speaker 2: it on their palas is kind of what's inspired most
Speaker 2: of the growth.
Speaker 3: It's funny, I'm wearing this jersey here, I was gonna
Speaker 3: wear my lab Rat sweat and I thought, no, that's
Speaker 3: that's like a little bit over the line here for
Speaker 3: in the interview, and then look, I'm a fan man,
Speaker 3: so like Adam Scott, was it Adam Scott or Lucas
Speaker 3: Glover's like, oh no, no, I can win the Masters
Speaker 3: with this buttter?
Speaker 1: That was Adam.
Speaker 2: He didn't And to be to be clear, he didn't
Speaker 2: say I can win the Masters. He looked me dead
Speaker 2: in the face and said, I'm going to win the
Speaker 2: Masters with this buttter?
Speaker 3: What does that do to your sales?
Speaker 2: I mean he didn't say it to anybody else, He
Speaker 2: just said it to me. So it didn't do a
Speaker 2: whole lot to our sales.
Speaker 3: You know, but when he does, when somebody wins a
Speaker 3: major major, let alone the Masters, what happens.
Speaker 1: To it will be huge.
Speaker 2: I mean, it'll be absolutely massive when that happens. And
Speaker 2: you know that that's kind of that next tier where
Speaker 2: you're getting you know, a lot more views from the
Speaker 2: average golfer than you would, you know, like at a
Speaker 2: Sony like you know, I mean Grayson Murray, you know
Speaker 2: one Sony last year with a link and then JJ
Speaker 2: was you know, putting really well all week. You know,
Speaker 2: he's somebody you know, similar to to like not certainly
Speaker 2: doesn't have the yips, but I mean putting stats wise
Speaker 2: hasn't been particularly strong. I think he finished last year
Speaker 2: around one twenty six and then this week he was
Speaker 2: twenty something and so you know that's a big deal
Speaker 2: for somebody to improve that much.
Speaker 1: But it's a Sony Open.
Speaker 2: Footballs you know, still what most people are watching, and
Speaker 2: so you know, the Sony Open or the you know,
Speaker 2: some of these early season events definitely don't move the
Speaker 2: needle like you know, somebody seeing it on TV at
Speaker 2: the Masters something like that, you know, makes it makes
Speaker 2: for a very different.
Speaker 1: Different set eyes.
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at what happened with the Jailbird
Speaker 2: a few years ago, where the Jailbird, you know, was
Speaker 2: out I think in kind of the mid teens, I
Speaker 2: want to say, like sixteen seventeen when it was originally
Speaker 2: put out there, and then it sort of fell into
Speaker 2: obscurity and then you know, Ricky been using it for
Speaker 2: well over a year but it didn't do anything, but
Speaker 2: then he ended up in the final group with the
Speaker 2: US Open, and now they had to reissue the putter.
Speaker 2: So yes, you know, major championships definitely moved the needle
Speaker 2: as far as equipment is concerned.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So it's not just the PGA Tour. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of other people who are high profile golfers
Speaker 3: on champions Tour and the corn Ferry, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: you've got a lot of players who are now and
Speaker 3: you don't pay any of them. They're doing this all
Speaker 3: on there by choice because of results, correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've got a ton. I mean, the Darryl
Speaker 2: Survey is the entity that sort of tracks usage of
Speaker 2: products across all tours, and you know the comparative numbers
Speaker 2: is from twenty four to twenty three or third cert.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just totally totally absurds, you know, one
Speaker 2: thousand percent growth plus, you know, I mean, just crazy
Speaker 2: stuff we've you know, and you know, we got the
Speaker 2: poor Liam. You know, I think Liam, you had Liam
Speaker 2: on the show before.
Speaker 3: I think I have been trying to get Liam on
Speaker 3: and well he knows what I'm calling about, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 2: Well he's he got, you know, to the point where
Speaker 2: it was just too much. So we've got like a
Speaker 2: whole tour department. Now, we've got reps on every tour.
Speaker 2: We've got a director of Brandon Harding. He was crazy
Speaker 2: busy and he and and you know, it was him
Speaker 2: and Brandon Harding were doing everything. So it wasn't just
Speaker 2: tour guys. It was celebrities and high profile amateurs, colleges,
Speaker 2: you know, all that kind of stuff. So now we
Speaker 2: have not only we have a tour department that's you know,
Speaker 2: six or seven deep. Now we also have a player
Speaker 2: development department where all of our college kids are getting
Speaker 2: served and and all that, and and the player developmental
Speaker 2: handle some of the developmental tours and some of the
Speaker 2: smaller tours overseas. And stuff like that. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean we've got a bunch of players on every major tour.
Speaker 2: I mean last year we had we had two senior
Speaker 2: major wins last years, you know, Senior US Open and
Speaker 2: the Senior PGA Championship, both by Richard Bland.
Speaker 1: But he actually used two different putters.
Speaker 2: One when the Senior PGA with A with the MES
Speaker 2: max and then won the Senior US Open with the
Speaker 2: DF two point one. And so after that, you know,
Speaker 2: the champions.
Speaker 1: Tour guys, you know, those poor guys don't get a
Speaker 1: lot of support.
Speaker 2: You know, the OEMs, don't don't hang out a lot
Speaker 2: out there on their on their tours, and so they're
Speaker 2: always so happy to see us, and we're so happy
Speaker 2: to see them. I mean, they're they're a lot of
Speaker 2: those guys are to stage in their career where putting
Speaker 2: is not their favorite part of the game and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, so to get the feedback from them that
Speaker 2: you know, makes them feel a little less twitchy is
Speaker 2: really fun.
Speaker 3: So with the success that you're having, I've got a
Speaker 3: leave there are well, and I've seen at least p
Speaker 3: XG people are coming out with zero torque putters, which
Speaker 3: is going right after you, right, I mean, that's exactly
Speaker 3: what you've been claiming all along, is there's no torque
Speaker 3: in these putters. Here's my revealer and this buttter is
Speaker 3: just staying online the entire time. What's going on with that?
Speaker 3: How many copycats and how close are they to being
Speaker 3: truly copies of what you're doing?
Speaker 1: How many?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, I mean one of one of the
Speaker 2: so from the big companies or bigger companies. Odysseys got
Speaker 2: their square to square line, bet Nardi has their antidote line.
Speaker 1: P XG came out with the Allen even Rolls got
Speaker 1: their zero line, and.
Speaker 2: You know, they're all they're all good, like they're all
Speaker 2: like the coolest thing about it is like, you know,
Speaker 2: all these companies now just basically said, turns out Lab
Speaker 2: wasn't selling snake oil.
Speaker 1: Turns out this technology works. You know, they they they
Speaker 1: they validated us, which has been so nice, like and
Speaker 1: you know, and.
Speaker 2: You know, now it's a competitive space, right, those zero
Speaker 2: torque space, and we feel great about where we're at
Speaker 2: with that. You know, there's still nobody in the in
Speaker 2: the in the world that can offer the customizations that
Speaker 2: we do. I think I would imagine the general consumer
Speaker 2: understands we know a lot more about how to get
Speaker 2: a putter actually properly balanced, and some of the other
Speaker 2: ones do. So we're feeling we're feeling really good.
Speaker 1: The frustrating part is.
Speaker 2: The language being used, you know, and this has you know,
Speaker 2: been sort of one of the disappointing parts of You're
Speaker 2: asking before just you know, kind of surprises in the industry.
Speaker 2: The marketing teams and the R and D teams of
Speaker 2: these companies do not talk as much as I think
Speaker 2: you would think that they might. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: the marketing team has a job to promote a putter
Speaker 2: that is being designed specifically to compete with lab and
Speaker 2: so regardless of what the engineers might be telling them
Speaker 2: about how the putter works, you're seeing a lot of
Speaker 2: very misleading language, and you know, and some of these
Speaker 2: companies that are big enough that they don't have to
Speaker 2: validate it, they don't have to you know, explain the
Speaker 2: science or do whatever. They just say, Hey, this is
Speaker 2: this new putter, you should buy it, and people do
Speaker 2: because they've you know, got great reputations and been in
Speaker 2: the business for years, and.
Speaker 1: So that gets a little frustrating.
Speaker 2: What's been so cool to see is like is our
Speaker 2: you know, the support we get from our customers is
Speaker 2: just incredible. I mean, every time a new company comes out,
Speaker 2: you know, there's inevitably somebody on that thread talking about
Speaker 2: you know, sort of the you know differences albeit nuanced,
Speaker 2: but you know, there's still differences. There are still reasons
Speaker 2: why our stuff performs better than theirs two despite the
Speaker 2: claims that it's you know, kind of the same thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's been a it's it's been wild.
Speaker 2: Like the shift that takes place in like our marketing
Speaker 2: meetings and the way that we talk about the product
Speaker 2: has been like it's like a total one eighty, Like
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we don't need to talk about
Speaker 2: whether or not it's a worthwhile technology anymore. Like you know,
Speaker 2: the big companies just just ended that conversation. So now
Speaker 2: we get to talk about the differences between what we
Speaker 2: do and what everybody else is doing.
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: You know, now people get to they're taking a really
Speaker 2: much closer look at like, oh wow, I mean these
Speaker 2: guys around you know doing stuff just on a completely
Speaker 2: different level.
Speaker 1: It's fun.
Speaker 3: I got to believe that when you first got into this, this, this,
Speaker 3: and you would walk into an industry room, heads would
Speaker 3: turn and go, he's not one of us. He doesn't
Speaker 3: look like us, he doesn't talk like us. Who is
Speaker 3: this guy? And now you walk in the room, heads turn, going,
Speaker 3: how do we be like him?
Speaker 2: I mean right, They certainly aren't saying that to me,
Speaker 2: but indicate they're excited about what LAB.
Speaker 3: Is doing, and you know, turning heads, oh, for sure,
Speaker 3: in a very different way. You and you walk in
Speaker 3: the room, and that's pretty a man.
Speaker 1: And that's been interesting to see too.
Speaker 2: As you know, some of these other companies are entering
Speaker 2: the you know, the torque space like.
Speaker 1: I appreciate at least a little bit.
Speaker 2: The ones that are are you know, sort of at
Speaker 2: least tipping their caps to us, you know, and recognizing
Speaker 2: that they're only designing these putters because of what they've seen,
Speaker 2: you know, Lab Accomplish. The ones that piss me off
Speaker 2: are the ones that are like out there, you know,
Speaker 2: packaging our exact same marketing language, pretending like they thought
Speaker 2: of this themselves. But you know that's just me. I
Speaker 2: don't actually care. But yes, I mean yeah, we're being
Speaker 2: received in a very very different way. On tour and
Speaker 2: it's you know, I'm not going to the PGA show
Speaker 2: this year, and I didn't go last year. But you know,
Speaker 2: my understanding was, Yeah, the vibe was very very different
Speaker 2: on tour.
Speaker 1: I mean this is not an exaggeration.
Speaker 2: I mean people literally used to point and laugh at me,
Speaker 2: like I would look up and I'd see the other
Speaker 2: bags across the green, you know, and they just never
Speaker 2: at any time took us seriously in any way. And
Speaker 2: you know, now I haven't been on tour since the
Speaker 2: release of all of these competitive putters yet, and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be out there in a few weeks. I'll be
Speaker 2: you know, interested. But even last year, I mean, people
Speaker 2: were really starting to be much nicer and you know,
Speaker 2: complimentary and come up and shake hands with you know,
Speaker 2: very respectful appreciations for you.
Speaker 1: Know, they know like what I mean. Look, I didn't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how hard it would be, and if
Speaker 2: I did, I don't know that I would have done it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And so I think that.
Speaker 2: In addition to you know, sort of the respect for
Speaker 2: the technology that a lot of the the other companies
Speaker 2: are now exhibiting, I think they also appreciate that, like
Speaker 2: going from absolutely nobody from nowhere, you know, in you know,
Speaker 2: the middle of the desert, and a reno to having
Speaker 2: fifteen percent of the potter market is it's not something
Speaker 2: you see every day. It just doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 2: And they've all been at all, you know, really respectful.
Speaker 3: That's great, that's great, all right, let's wrap it up
Speaker 3: with this. I'm a DF three user. I love the
Speaker 3: DF three. Convince me why I need to move to
Speaker 3: the OS one.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna, you know, and I'm not and I'm
Speaker 2: and as a commitment to our consumer too, like I mean,
Speaker 2: one of the things that has always driven me crazy
Speaker 2: about the industry, and I find it frankly embarrassing, is
Speaker 2: the number of companies that come out with technology saying no, no, no,
Speaker 2: this is better than the one that we just sold
Speaker 2: you six months ago or a year ago. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to tell you that it's better. It's definitely different.
Speaker 2: It has more options to offer you, and those differences
Speaker 2: might suit you better. So I can't tell you that
Speaker 2: for sure you need an odd the DF three might
Speaker 2: still be, you know, the perfect putter for you. I
Speaker 2: would definitely encourage you to go try it. See how
Speaker 2: it feels. See if you like looking at it, see
Speaker 2: if it sets up a little better. I mean, the
Speaker 2: technology within our putters is all the same. You're going
Speaker 2: to you know, the bigger the putter, the more kind
Speaker 2: of obvious the technology is going to feel. But for
Speaker 2: the most part, you're going to have that experience of
Speaker 2: the putter just kind of doing its own thing with
Speaker 2: any of our models. So then it comes down to
Speaker 2: the same stuff as with any other company. Which one
Speaker 2: do you like looking at, which one do you like aiming,
Speaker 2: Which one do you like carrying around?
Speaker 1: Which one do you want to you know, make your baby.
Speaker 1: That stuff's up to you.
Speaker 2: And so unless we do make you know, an innovation
Speaker 2: with some of the optionality and options and or you know,
Speaker 2: customizations and such, I'm not going to tell anybody it's better.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to say that it's different, and then
Speaker 2: it is. Uh split'spin. I think it's probably about fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty now in our within the factory here of
Speaker 2: DF three users versus OZ users. Whereas when the when
Speaker 2: the DF three came out, everybody was using it. Uh
Speaker 2: so just for the ball Scooper, Yeah, that was a
Speaker 2: big part of it, for sure. Just this, you know,
Speaker 2: the little bit more stability in the d F three
Speaker 2: than the mes, which I think people appreciated, but definitely
Speaker 2: give it a shot.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's.
Speaker 3: So somebody is coming to lab golf for the first time.
Speaker 2: I think I think if somebody's coming to lab Golf
Speaker 2: for the first time, I think the OZ is absolutely
Speaker 2: the place to start. From a size standpoint, It's not
Speaker 2: going to be, you know, some massive departure from from
Speaker 2: putters you've used in the past. Aesthetically, it's it's, you know,
Speaker 2: really really clean looking putter. It's not some super space
Speaker 2: age thing like we've done in the past. And then
Speaker 2: the the options around feel with the stainless insert you know,
Speaker 2: it mirrors much more closely that which a lot of
Speaker 2: people have used. And so yeah, perfect place to start
Speaker 2: for a new a new LAB user.
Speaker 3: I still can't wait to try one out. Well, dude, listen,
Speaker 3: It's what's been so fun about this is that I
Speaker 3: feel like we've become friends as well as well as
Speaker 3: me being a huge fan. Uh, And I'm do whatever
Speaker 3: I can to help promote the product. Even I'm doing
Speaker 3: interviews with people about putting and stuff, and I'm like well, well,
Speaker 3: how does that work for a lab putter? You know,
Speaker 3: it's like what you ambushing me?
Speaker 1: So yeah, we appreciate your fred.
Speaker 2: I mean it's like, you know, I've been talking to
Speaker 2: this whole time just about how customers and everything have
Speaker 2: made it all happen. But you know that that includes you.
Speaker 2: It includes folks like you that you know are in
Speaker 2: the industry and see what it is that we're doing
Speaker 2: in the sort of you know, uphill battle that we
Speaker 2: have to be a relevant player in this industry and
Speaker 2: couldn't have done it without ch