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Speaker 1: Arrow dot net. It's more than just a podcast A

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r r oe dot net. It's twenty different podcasts. When

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I get in the car, I'm sitting at the office,

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I want to make sure the podcast I'm tapping into

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is into my vibe and I'm not having to jump

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into their vibe. One such podcast, Beyond the Calling. We're

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talking to the men and women who have served this

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nation for decades. Now. Listen to their story Beyond the

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Calling on ero dot net a r r oe dot net.

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Enjoy the exploration.

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Speaker 2: Hi, this is magn Nick.

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Speaker 1: Hi Maggie, how are you doing today?

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Speaker 2: Hi? I am so good.

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Speaker 1: Is this a row?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Listen to your energy? My god, I have been blessed

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to have this energy.

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Speaker 2: Some days, you know, it comes when we need it.

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Speaker 1: Well you today, Well, I'm doing fantastic and looking forward

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to sharing a conversation about good kids and why we

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have suffered in silence because, oh my god, I think

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we can count on fifty thousand fingers people that we

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know that need this book.

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Speaker 2: Right. Thank you for understanding that we got to help.

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We got to find all the people who need it.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're going to find it. But that's the thing

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about it. About modern day technology. It's going to take

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word of mouth because it landed on you. But how

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did it land on you and move through those fingertips

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in order to end up on these pages?

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Speaker 2: I know, right? Yeah? So I kept seeing this pattern

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over and over again of people who seemed to be

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crushing life on the outside and then on the inside

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we're quietly falling apart and terribly hard on themselves. And

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that was my story too. I was the good kid,

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the one you never needed to worry about, who was

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always well behaved, always took care of everybody else right,

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like never not fine, always fine, the one we can

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all count on. And I really did wear like a

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gold star. I thought that's who I was. And then

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when I got into therapy in my mid twenties and

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was sort of a figuring out. But why am I so

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mean to myself? And why do I worry all the time?

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And why do I have such a complicated relationship with food?

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I sort of kept coming back to this core belief

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that there is something wrong with me really, that that

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I it's not acceptable to show people the side of

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me that are struggling or imperfect, right, and that I've

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kept pulling on the thread like, but why, why why?

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And I kind of kept coming back to this idea

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that I have to prove my goodness, like that I

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have to I can't show people who I really am

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because if I did, they wouldn't love me. Yep.

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Speaker 1: See, this is every bit the reason why I've asked

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coworkers and people around me please stop asking me how

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am I doing? Because you can't handle the truth, and

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I need to know. Do you not agree with that?

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Because if you're going to take the time to say, hey,

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how you doing today, sit down, let's talk. You got

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about an hour, let's go for it.

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Speaker 2: Yep, I'm going to answer really how I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: Which can be a fun place, but that you know,

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at my age, you know, people are starting to get

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into that motive saying he's just a grumpy old man.

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No I'm not, I swear to God.

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Speaker 2: I think we're just more real. Right. The more we heal,

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the more we feel we don't feel the need as

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much to pretend and like make the other person comfortable

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with our answer. That's a sign of healing and growth.

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But a lot of people haven't done that healing and growth,

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and so it can feel threatening.

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Speaker 1: You put a lot of concentration on that that good

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behavior isn't reliable, it's not an indicator. And I like

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that because there were many times, coming from a family

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of eight, I wanted to be that good kid. It

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didn't get me anywhere, did And so therefore am I

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still holding it against myself? Yes?

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Speaker 2: I am, yeah, yeah, I mean the pressure to be good.

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All kids are told to be good, right, excessively, be good,

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be good. But I don't think our parents or their

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parents before them, are all the way up. I don't

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think they understood how that was going to land and

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follow us. But it doesn't land the same way for

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every kid, which is why every kid's not a good kid.

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There we have kind of a spectrum. This is a

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huge oversimplification, but right like we have the problem kids

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on one end and the good kids on the other end,

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and some kids kind of float back and forth. But

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some kids, the good kids, are just born more easy going.

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They tend to be more sensitive to approval and also

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more tuned in to what the adults around them are

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feeling and want. And when we are overwhelmed by a

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kid who's struggling, and there's you know, as a parent,

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when I have a kid who's struggling and my other

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kid is well behaved. That makes life so much easier.

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That's delightful. But what can happen is the good kid

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can be held to such higher standards. Right, Like the

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good kid, It's like when they actually struggle or or

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you know, don't do it things perfectly, actually need something

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from us. Unfortunately, we can come in with the like disappointment,

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I'm disappointed, We can be exasperated this like what are

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you doing? I'm counting on you? Yeah, And that kind

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of makes the child like long term that follows them

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and kind of instills this belief that it's not safe

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to struggle. Right, the most lovable version of me is

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always fine and never needs anything from anyone, and that

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follows them.

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Speaker 1: Does it make me a butt heead or a meathead?

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When I will look at a good person because I'm

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an essential worker, I do have people on my team.

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What I'm always looking for. I like the good kids,

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I really do. But I need those good kids to

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be teachers and motivators of those that are on the borderline.

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And so what I'll do is I'll say I don't

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need you the good kid to do this job today.

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I need you to show them how important it is

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and why it is that we're doing what we're doing.

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Am I the butt heead on that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it makes sense in any group

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that you're going to have some people who are you

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able to do the job without struggle more right, And

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I think, of course we rely on them. I think

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we've just got of checked on people right, Like so

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often in my counseling practice, when I see children and

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adult good kids, like everybody thinks they're doing great, and

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they're often not, And so we just kind of have

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to be aware of expectations that we're putting on them

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and making sure that they're fair and they're not like

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impossible unrelenting expectations. That's kind of the trap we tend

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to fall into. I think even with adults like I

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experience that where I'm like, man, I'm doing as much

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as I possibly can, and it's still not enough for you, you know. Wow.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is that we live

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in this generation where bosses want to treat us like

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they are our parents. And there are many times, I

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mean I I'll look at a boss and go, I

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know you're not talking to me this way. There's there's

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just no way because I've got a respect for you,

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but you ain't my daddy. You are not my dad,

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and you can't you can't talk to me with those tones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a whole chapter in the book called

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you carry your childhood into every relationship you do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is the thing.

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Speaker 2: What you are describing is a thing.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Meggie nick I

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made up next Good Kids, Why you suffered in silence

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and how to break that cycle. We're back with Maggie.

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So then how should we be raising our kids? Because

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I now have a granddaughter that's twenty two and a

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grandson that that's twenty And I sit there and I go,

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I think they're okay because we get to have lunch,

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we laugh, we talk about things, how to raise our

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voice and peace. I mean, I think we're doing it right.

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But are we because they're coming across as good kids yep?

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Speaker 2: Well, And I think the expectations of how to be

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a good parent right over the years, generation after generation

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has been really based on misguided beliefs that are not like,

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they don't hold up to science at this point, and

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what we know about neurophysiology and emotional regulation and self

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worth and everything. But like I think parents feel like

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when their child becomes a toddler and they start pushing

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back and tantruming, it's like, okay, well, I'm not going

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to enjoy this any more than you are, but I

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have to punish you now until you stop pushing back.

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And once you do that, I'm good and you're a

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good kid, and I'm a good parent, and we succeeded,

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And like we tend a lot of parents will be like,

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hang on, being really well behaved is a good thing,

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I thought, And we do tend to see that as

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a huge success as the parent. Right. The problem is

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kids often like when we are praising them over and

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over again for never misbehaving, right, we're never seeing the

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misbehavior as a sign that their body's overwhelmed and disregulated

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and needing to release stress that they've been bottling misbehavior

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like our stress shows up and our behavior. So if

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a child's pushing back and in what I call the resistance,

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when they're resisting us and saying no, I don't want

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to brush my teeth, I don't want to put my

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pajamas on, I don't want to leave the park, right,

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whatever it is, that is a sign that they if

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they were regulated, they could move through this moment without struggle.

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They're in the resistance right now, so they're they're disregulated,

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and like, they don't need us to dominate them into

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submission to us and respect us. They need support, like

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they need us to hold the now lovingly without dominating

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them into submission and getting scary, mad and bigger and

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threatening and intimidating. And they need us to not punish

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them for having that struggle, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you totally set me up there. When you're talking

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about kids who don't want to put on their pajamas,

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that's when I would sit down and say, here's the thing.

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In about ten or fifteen years, you're not going to

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want to take them off, because that's what you're going

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to want to be dressed in. Even when you go

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to a grocery store, you're gonna wat your pajamas on.

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So you might as well get used to it now.

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And if you're judging yourself through perfectionism, let's talk about

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that as well. I mean, I mean, you've got such

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the perfect book here that sets up the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much. Yeah, Perfectionism is stabilitating.

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It really is. A lot of people don't understand that,

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Like they think, Oh, I'm just trying to do my best.

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That's not perfectionism. Like what we're talking about is a punishing,

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vicious inner voice that constantly moves the goalpost. It's terrified

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of failure. You can't enjoy a win because you're already

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picking apart which you should have been better, right, and

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already worried about the next thing. I actually have ten

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check engine lights. That's how I think about it as

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a therapist for good kids. Right. In the third part

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of the book, the parenting section, I talk through ten

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check engine lights, and there's sort of the top ten

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things that I look for when I'm working with a child.

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And it's like a check engine light is not the issue.

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Like if we turn the check engine light off, we

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haven't solved the problem. Right, So perfectionism is a check

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engine light. If we can somehow get them to not

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do that, we haven't really solved the problem. There's a

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deeper struggle, right, And so I talk through perfectionism overachieving, right,

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just feeling like you need to like paddle your plate

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on and be super impressive and never struggle. I've talked

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through the physical symptoms, right, the parents often miss like

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headaches and stomach aches. You know, that can often be

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signs the kids are working very hard to keep it

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together right, and their bodies struggling because they're pushing all

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their feelings. Because you'd be good, right.

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Speaker 1: Do you invite your students and or your your your

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guests basically because I never want to say client, I

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don't like that, But do you invite them in the

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way of defragging? In other words, go ask yourself some

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questions and question those answers. You know you're always asking people, Oh,

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how can I do this? How can I do this?

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They've never walked in your shoes. You have go answering

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your own questions.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, I mean, I'm a huge fan of internal

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family systems. Parts work, ifs and parts work because right,

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we have parts of us and they do make sense

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in a certain context, and we need to follow them.

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Like my anxious part is trying to send me a

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really important message that this person in front of me

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is reminding me of someone who made me feel bad

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or made me feel stupid, and so there's like it's

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always there's always a reason why we are activated by

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anxiety or anger or even rage. Like, there's always a reason.

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And I think what I love about IFS and Parts

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work and can't recommend it highly enup do talk about

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it quite a bit in the book, is that it

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guides us back to ourselves. It helps us connect with

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our gut or intuition. What IFS calls self our highest

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self and right like, you're right because nobody else has

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lived or lettings, nobody else understands why this moment feels

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so familiar in a painful way and your whole nervous

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system is freaking out. There's always a reason. We always

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make sense.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Where can people go to find out more about you, Maggie,

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Because ten minutes with you is not enough, that's not

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even scratching the surface. They need to, you know, to

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basically face plant and get their heart involved.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you for that, Maggie, Nick dot

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com and I'm on the social medias as at Maggie

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with perse Spectacles love that well.

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Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the future, Maggie.

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The door is always going to be open for you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for your time. I

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would love to come back anytime.

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Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?

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Speaker 2: Thank you you too, Take care,