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Speaker 2: Hi, this is magn Nick.
Speaker 1: Hi Maggie, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Hi? I am so good.
Speaker 1: Is this a row?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Listen to your energy? My god, I have been blessed
to have this energy.
Speaker 2: Some days, you know, it comes when we need it.
Speaker 1: Well you today, Well, I'm doing fantastic and looking forward
to sharing a conversation about good kids and why we
have suffered in silence because, oh my god, I think
we can count on fifty thousand fingers people that we
know that need this book.
Speaker 2: Right. Thank you for understanding that we got to help.
We got to find all the people who need it.
Speaker 1: Well, they're going to find it. But that's the thing
about it. About modern day technology. It's going to take
word of mouth because it landed on you. But how
did it land on you and move through those fingertips
in order to end up on these pages?
Speaker 2: I know, right? Yeah? So I kept seeing this pattern
over and over again of people who seemed to be
crushing life on the outside and then on the inside
we're quietly falling apart and terribly hard on themselves. And
that was my story too. I was the good kid,
the one you never needed to worry about, who was
always well behaved, always took care of everybody else right,
like never not fine, always fine, the one we can
all count on. And I really did wear like a
gold star. I thought that's who I was. And then
when I got into therapy in my mid twenties and
was sort of a figuring out. But why am I so
mean to myself? And why do I worry all the time?
And why do I have such a complicated relationship with food?
I sort of kept coming back to this core belief
that there is something wrong with me really, that that
I it's not acceptable to show people the side of
me that are struggling or imperfect, right, and that I've
kept pulling on the thread like, but why, why why?
And I kind of kept coming back to this idea
that I have to prove my goodness, like that I
have to I can't show people who I really am
because if I did, they wouldn't love me. Yep.
Speaker 1: See, this is every bit the reason why I've asked
coworkers and people around me please stop asking me how
am I doing? Because you can't handle the truth, and
I need to know. Do you not agree with that?
Because if you're going to take the time to say, hey,
how you doing today, sit down, let's talk. You got
about an hour, let's go for it.
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm going to answer really how I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Which can be a fun place, but that you know,
at my age, you know, people are starting to get
into that motive saying he's just a grumpy old man.
No I'm not, I swear to God.
Speaker 2: I think we're just more real. Right. The more we heal,
the more we feel we don't feel the need as
much to pretend and like make the other person comfortable
with our answer. That's a sign of healing and growth.
But a lot of people haven't done that healing and growth,
and so it can feel threatening.
Speaker 1: You put a lot of concentration on that that good
behavior isn't reliable, it's not an indicator. And I like
that because there were many times, coming from a family
of eight, I wanted to be that good kid. It
didn't get me anywhere, did And so therefore am I
still holding it against myself? Yes?
Speaker 2: I am, yeah, yeah, I mean the pressure to be good.
All kids are told to be good, right, excessively, be good,
be good. But I don't think our parents or their
parents before them, are all the way up. I don't
think they understood how that was going to land and
follow us. But it doesn't land the same way for
every kid, which is why every kid's not a good kid.
There we have kind of a spectrum. This is a
huge oversimplification, but right like we have the problem kids
on one end and the good kids on the other end,
and some kids kind of float back and forth. But
some kids, the good kids, are just born more easy going.
They tend to be more sensitive to approval and also
more tuned in to what the adults around them are
feeling and want. And when we are overwhelmed by a
kid who's struggling, and there's you know, as a parent,
when I have a kid who's struggling and my other
kid is well behaved. That makes life so much easier.
That's delightful. But what can happen is the good kid
can be held to such higher standards. Right, Like the
good kid, It's like when they actually struggle or or
you know, don't do it things perfectly, actually need something
from us. Unfortunately, we can come in with the like disappointment,
I'm disappointed, We can be exasperated this like what are
you doing? I'm counting on you? Yeah, And that kind
of makes the child like long term that follows them
and kind of instills this belief that it's not safe
to struggle. Right, the most lovable version of me is
always fine and never needs anything from anyone, and that
follows them.
Speaker 1: Does it make me a butt heead or a meathead?
When I will look at a good person because I'm
an essential worker, I do have people on my team.
What I'm always looking for. I like the good kids,
I really do. But I need those good kids to
be teachers and motivators of those that are on the borderline.
And so what I'll do is I'll say I don't
need you the good kid to do this job today.
I need you to show them how important it is
and why it is that we're doing what we're doing.
Am I the butt heead on that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it makes sense in any group
that you're going to have some people who are you
able to do the job without struggle more right, And
I think, of course we rely on them. I think
we've just got of checked on people right, Like so
often in my counseling practice, when I see children and
adult good kids, like everybody thinks they're doing great, and
they're often not, And so we just kind of have
to be aware of expectations that we're putting on them
and making sure that they're fair and they're not like
impossible unrelenting expectations. That's kind of the trap we tend
to fall into. I think even with adults like I
experience that where I'm like, man, I'm doing as much
as I possibly can, and it's still not enough for you, you know. Wow.
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is that we live
in this generation where bosses want to treat us like
they are our parents. And there are many times, I
mean I I'll look at a boss and go, I
know you're not talking to me this way. There's there's
just no way because I've got a respect for you,
but you ain't my daddy. You are not my dad,
and you can't you can't talk to me with those tones.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a whole chapter in the book called
you carry your childhood into every relationship you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is the thing.
Speaker 2: What you are describing is a thing.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Meggie nick I
made up next Good Kids, Why you suffered in silence
and how to break that cycle. We're back with Maggie.
So then how should we be raising our kids? Because
I now have a granddaughter that's twenty two and a
grandson that that's twenty And I sit there and I go,
I think they're okay because we get to have lunch,
we laugh, we talk about things, how to raise our
voice and peace. I mean, I think we're doing it right.
But are we because they're coming across as good kids yep?
Speaker 2: Well, And I think the expectations of how to be
a good parent right over the years, generation after generation
has been really based on misguided beliefs that are not like,
they don't hold up to science at this point, and
what we know about neurophysiology and emotional regulation and self
worth and everything. But like I think parents feel like
when their child becomes a toddler and they start pushing
back and tantruming, it's like, okay, well, I'm not going
to enjoy this any more than you are, but I
have to punish you now until you stop pushing back.
And once you do that, I'm good and you're a
good kid, and I'm a good parent, and we succeeded,
And like we tend a lot of parents will be like,
hang on, being really well behaved is a good thing,
I thought, And we do tend to see that as
a huge success as the parent. Right. The problem is
kids often like when we are praising them over and
over again for never misbehaving, right, we're never seeing the
misbehavior as a sign that their body's overwhelmed and disregulated
and needing to release stress that they've been bottling misbehavior
like our stress shows up and our behavior. So if
a child's pushing back and in what I call the resistance,
when they're resisting us and saying no, I don't want
to brush my teeth, I don't want to put my
pajamas on, I don't want to leave the park, right,
whatever it is, that is a sign that they if
they were regulated, they could move through this moment without struggle.
They're in the resistance right now, so they're they're disregulated,
and like, they don't need us to dominate them into
submission to us and respect us. They need support, like
they need us to hold the now lovingly without dominating
them into submission and getting scary, mad and bigger and
threatening and intimidating. And they need us to not punish
them for having that struggle, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you totally set me up there. When you're talking
about kids who don't want to put on their pajamas,
that's when I would sit down and say, here's the thing.
In about ten or fifteen years, you're not going to
want to take them off, because that's what you're going
to want to be dressed in. Even when you go
to a grocery store, you're gonna wat your pajamas on.
So you might as well get used to it now.
And if you're judging yourself through perfectionism, let's talk about
that as well. I mean, I mean, you've got such
the perfect book here that sets up the conversation.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much. Yeah, Perfectionism is stabilitating.
It really is. A lot of people don't understand that,
Like they think, Oh, I'm just trying to do my best.
That's not perfectionism. Like what we're talking about is a punishing,
vicious inner voice that constantly moves the goalpost. It's terrified
of failure. You can't enjoy a win because you're already
picking apart which you should have been better, right, and
already worried about the next thing. I actually have ten
check engine lights. That's how I think about it as
a therapist for good kids. Right. In the third part
of the book, the parenting section, I talk through ten
check engine lights, and there's sort of the top ten
things that I look for when I'm working with a child.
And it's like a check engine light is not the issue.
Like if we turn the check engine light off, we
haven't solved the problem. Right, So perfectionism is a check
engine light. If we can somehow get them to not
do that, we haven't really solved the problem. There's a
deeper struggle, right, And so I talk through perfectionism overachieving, right,
just feeling like you need to like paddle your plate
on and be super impressive and never struggle. I've talked
through the physical symptoms, right, the parents often miss like
headaches and stomach aches. You know, that can often be
signs the kids are working very hard to keep it
together right, and their bodies struggling because they're pushing all
their feelings. Because you'd be good, right.
Speaker 1: Do you invite your students and or your your your
guests basically because I never want to say client, I
don't like that, But do you invite them in the
way of defragging? In other words, go ask yourself some
questions and question those answers. You know you're always asking people, Oh,
how can I do this? How can I do this?
They've never walked in your shoes. You have go answering
your own questions.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I mean, I'm a huge fan of internal
family systems. Parts work, ifs and parts work because right,
we have parts of us and they do make sense
in a certain context, and we need to follow them.
Like my anxious part is trying to send me a
really important message that this person in front of me
is reminding me of someone who made me feel bad
or made me feel stupid, and so there's like it's
always there's always a reason why we are activated by
anxiety or anger or even rage. Like, there's always a reason.
And I think what I love about IFS and Parts
work and can't recommend it highly enup do talk about
it quite a bit in the book, is that it
guides us back to ourselves. It helps us connect with
our gut or intuition. What IFS calls self our highest
self and right like, you're right because nobody else has
lived or lettings, nobody else understands why this moment feels
so familiar in a painful way and your whole nervous
system is freaking out. There's always a reason. We always
make sense.
Speaker 1: Wow, Where can people go to find out more about you, Maggie,
Because ten minutes with you is not enough, that's not
even scratching the surface. They need to, you know, to
basically face plant and get their heart involved.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you for that, Maggie, Nick dot
com and I'm on the social medias as at Maggie
with perse Spectacles love that well.
Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the future, Maggie.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for your time. I
would love to come back anytime.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2: Thank you you too, Take care,