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Speaker 1: We have time to do at least one more music

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news story. Always so many interesting things going on in

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the industry.

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Speaker 2: Let's see.

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Speaker 1: This is from Music Business Worldwide dot com, one of

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my favorite sites. You know, we were talking about it

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was it last week or the week before, we were

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talking about Ticketmaster and Live Nation. They're being sued by

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the Federal Trade Commission for unfair practices with you know,

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they have these these resellers on the secondary market, some

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of whom are owned or at least controlled by Live

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Nation itself. It's a dirty business to ticketing business. But

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this just went up a couple of days ago. Ticketmaster

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did not use dynamic pricing for Oasis concerts in the UK.

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Will change how it sells tickets in the market, says

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a watchdog group. So dynamic pricing, if you don't know,

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this is where this is a relatively new concept in

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the ticketing industry where prices will change on tickets. So,

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you know, it used to be not long ago when

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a promoter put tickets to a show on sale, the

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price was the price and that was it. You don't

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raise the price if demand seems high, and you don't

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lower the price if demand is too low. And the

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tickets aren't selling. Once you set the price, that's it

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for a promoter to actually adjust prices.

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Speaker 2: Whether it be a major.

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Speaker 1: Promoter or the biggest promoter of course Live Nation and

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their ticket selling arm Ticketmaster, or as a small local

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promoter just doing local shows, you don't see ticket prices

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being adjusted. But with dynamic pricing, it's like a it's

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almost like like a real time sort of like eBay,

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But well no, that's a that's not a there's a

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better uber would be a much better analogy Uber or lyft.

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You know how, if you go to book a ride,

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the price may vary. It depends on demand. Right. If

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there's if demand is high, that ride, the book is

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going to cost you more money. If demand is low,

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if the app isn't very busy, if the drivers aren't

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very busy, that trip is going to cost you a

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lot less. Right, So the pricing automatically fluctuates based on

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the demand or lack thereof. Dynamic pricing does the same thing.

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So if there's high demand for a show, that dynamic pricing,

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if they're using that model, that's automatically going to inflate

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the prices. If demand is low, the tickets aren't selling,

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it's going to deflate the price and that can swing

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kind of like add the airlines do that right, a

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sort of a form of dynamic pricing with flights for

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airline tickets. That's always been and they've been doing that forever,

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I believe, probably for decades, but this is relatively new

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to the concert industry and Live Nation they're the first

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ones to actively do it that I know of, but

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so we hear. Part of why this is coming up

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again is because when Oasis tickets went on sale in

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the UK for the reunion tour, there was a lot

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of frustration from people and the band was getting a

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lot of bad press, even though they're not in direct

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control of this part of the process, but a lot

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of bad press because of how expensive the tickets had become.

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And at the time Live Nation was being accused of

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using dynamic pricing, but according to this they actually were

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not in this instance. So this is interesting. This is

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part of why this story caught my eye. So the

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UK's competition watchdog says it has secured commitments from Ticketmaster

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to make tickets sales more transparent following an investigation into

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the sale of tickets to the UK and Ireland leg

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of Oasis' reunion tour. The Competition and Markets Authority CMA also,

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if you haven't heard from it again, this is in

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the UK, also said it has not found evidence that

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Ticketmaster used dynamic pricing in the sale of Oasis tickets.

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Dynamic pricing adjust tickets prices in real time based on

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demand and has proven controversial among some concert goers due

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to sudden spikes in prices. In a statement released on Thursday,

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September twenty five, the CMA said Live Nation owned Ticketmaster

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committed to telling fans twenty four hours in advance if

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it's using a teared pricing system. By the way, and

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we've covered this on the show, Live Nation and Ticketmaster

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they have a little bit of a history. This will

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come as a shock to precisely know what, I'm sure

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of making certain statements about commitments to their customers in

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terms of transparency and so forth, and then not following

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through on much or any of it. Just to be clear, okay,

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but apparently they made this commitment tell fans twenty four

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hours in advance if they're going to be using dynamic

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pricing or some sort of tiered pricing system. CMA said, quote,

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this means fans will know beforehand if there are multiple

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prices for the same type of ticket, and that more

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expensive ones will be released once the cheapest sell out unquote,

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by the way, just to be clear if it's the

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same type of ticket. In other words, because there's always

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some form of tiered pricing in that if you're buying

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tickets for a show at an arena, you know, front

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row tickets are going to be more expensive than the

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middle middle row are going to be more expensive than

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you know, they call them the cheap seats way in

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the back, right. But what they're saying here is the

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same type of ticket, there will not be multiple tiers.

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So in other words, a front row ticket won't cost, however,

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many hundreds or thousands of dollars for one person and

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even more money for another person for that same type

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of ticket. So because there's there's always a tier system

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of sorts, but but but not a predatory and abusive one,

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necessarily should they be using if you want to frame

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it that way, I have a lot of mixed feelings

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about it myself. Okay, So it says your ticketmaster will

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also inform ticket buyers who join a queue of the

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range of ticket prices available and will inform those in

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line when cheaper tickets sell out.

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Speaker 2: The company also committed.

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Speaker 1: To not using any misleading ticket labels, the CMA said.

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The Watchdog launched its investigation into Ticketmaster in September twenty

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twenty four following the sale of Oasis tickets, which some

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news reports say involved dynamic pricing and saw large spikes

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and the prices of tickets during the sale. Yeah, so

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that was a year ago, and I remember we talked

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about it on this show. In fact, it was a

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very popular segment. If you just want to find the segment,

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you can find it on YouTube on the IPM Nation

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YouTube channel. But we put that up because you know,

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something people were very interested about. And at that time

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it was being reported that they were using dynamic pricing.

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But according to this this watchdog group is saying that

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actually they did not in that instance. So that's interesting.

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So the sale was marred again. Talking about the Oasis

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tickets that went on sale in the UK a year ago.

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The sale was marred by technical problems which may have

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been linked to a large number of bots attempting to

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buy up the available tickets. And we've talked about that

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a lot on the show too. These bots that buy

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up tickets on behalf of the secondary market, who then

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take those their scalpers. They're scalpers, these secondary market ticket sellers.

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They buy up the tickets. They use bots to buy

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up the tickets. Why would you use bots? Why wouldn't

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you just go in as one person and just buy

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a whole bunch of tickets, because supposedly ticket Master prevents

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you from doing that. They put limits supposedly, Again, they

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don't always keep their word. They don't always follow through

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on these things, and there are examples where they haven't.

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But they're supposed to limit how many tickets you can

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buy at once to prevent scalping. Doesn't always work out.

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But if you have bots, if you have multiple bots,

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Ticketmaster doesn't know that all these different bots are buying

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multiple tickets. Or you know, if you have if you

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have one hundred bots and they're each buying five tickets

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because you have a five ticket limit, but you've got

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one hundred bots, so then you've just bought you know,

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five hundred tickets, right, or if you have one thousand bots,

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five thousand tickets. I think, right, I'm bad at math,

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but anyway, you get my point. So in March of

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this year, the CMA said it had identified two key

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problems with Ticketmaster's sale of Oasis tickets. Okay, so so

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again not the dynamic pricing the watch this watchdog group

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CMA is saying they didn't do that.

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Speaker 2: But here's what went wrong. Two things.

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Speaker 1: One, the watchdog claimed Ticketmaster labeled certain seats tickets as

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platinum and sold them for nearly two and a half

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times the price of equivalent standard tickets quote without sufficiently

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explaining that they did not offer additional benefits and were

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often located in the same area of the stadium unquote.

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So in other words, so that's I think is pretty deceptive. Right,

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So they offered you a platinum ticket that was two

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and a half times more money, but you didn't actually

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get anything extra. It's the same it's the same seat.

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You're literally you know that expression when you buy a

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brand name product instead of instead of the generic version.

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You're just paying for the name, and this this is

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an example of that. You're literally paying for the name

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you're playing for. You're paying for something that's quote unquote platinum,

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but it's actually the exact same thing. So that's pretty sketchy.

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And the second thing that CMA said went wrong. They

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alleged that Ticketmaster quote did not inform consumers that there

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were two categories of standing tickets at different prices, with

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all of the cheaper standing tickets sold first before the

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more expensive standing tickets were released unquote. The CMA then

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appeared to put pressure on Ticketmaster, writing in a letter

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in July that it had quote discharged its obligation to

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consult with Ticketmaster as no undertakings have been offered or

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agreed unquote. That appears to have now changed, with the

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CMA saying that Ticketmaster had agreed to several undertakings in

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response to the CMA probe. Okay, so this progress, CMA said, quote.

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These undertakings have been provided to the CMA voluntarily and

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without any admission of wrongdoing or liability. Ticketmaster has stopped

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using platinum labels in the UK, separate to providing undertakings.

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Fans who spend their hard earned money to see artists

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say love deserve to see clear, accurate information. We can't

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ensure every fan gets a ticket for events as popular

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as the Oasis, but we can help ensure the next

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time an event like this comes along, fans have the

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information they need when they need it unquote. According to

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Sarah Cardell, a CMA Chief executive, the CMA also indicated

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that dynamic pricing was not used in the Oasis on sale.

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This is an important detail because at the time it

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was being reported that yes, they were using dynamic pricing,

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and that was the crux of the issue. But this

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watchdog group actually clears Live Nation on this and says, quote,

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we welcome the CMA's confirmation. Oh I'm sorry, Ticketmaster. Oh

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let me back up, let me back up. Okay, Here's

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here's what CMA said. And then Ticketmaster responded, So, CMA said, quote,

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While many fans were under the impression that Ticketmaster used

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an algorithmic pricing model during the Oasis sale, with ticket

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prices adjusted in real time according to changing conditions like

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high demand, also known as dynamic pricing, the CMA has

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found no evidence that this was the case.

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Speaker 2: Unquote. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then and Ticketmaster responded with a statement saying, quote,

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we welcome the CMA's confirmation that there was no dynamic pricing,

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no unfair practices, and that we did not breach consumer law.

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To further improve the customer experience. We voluntarily committed to

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clearer communication about ticket prices in queues. This builds up

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our capped resale. This builds on our capped resale, strong

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bought protection and clear pricing displays. And we encourage the

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CMA to hold the entire industry to these same standards.

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Unquote in comments earlier, well actually hold on, wait, let

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me stop on that quote for just a second. So

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they're saying, I mean, it's great that they're making all

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these commitments. We'll see if they follow through, but it's

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kind of interesting that one little last part we encouraged

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CMA to hold the entire industry to these same standards.

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What's funny about that to me is so that sounds like, Okay,

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you know we're going to agree to this, but you better.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you hold everyone else to that same standard. Well,

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but who else is there.

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Speaker 1: You gotta I mean, just keep in mind Live Nation

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and ticket Master, it's the same company. They they can control.

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They controlled the concert industry. I mean, obviously they are independent,

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smaller promoters throughout the country, throughout the world, throughout the UK.

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But this is a monopoly. This is absolutely a monopoly.

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So that sounds a little petty. Oh, we hope you

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hold everyone to the same standards. Yeah, okay, but you

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guys are the ones that we're concerned with because.

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Speaker 2: You guys are the ones who control everything, right, So

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I just thought that was interesting.

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Speaker 1: In comments earlier this year, Live Nation CEO Joe birch

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Told said that more often than not, dynamic pricing results

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in lower, not higher.

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Speaker 2: Ticket prices.

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Speaker 1: I'm skeptical about that, although I can see how that

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might be the case if a show, I mean, if

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a show isn't selling very well, then dynamic pricing would

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of course make for lower prices.

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Speaker 2: But that's not where we get concerned. A show that

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isn't well. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes big tours end up underperforming. But birch Told

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said at a JP Morgan Chase conference in May, quote,

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most of our so called dynamic pricing is actually I'm

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reducing the price of tickets that haven't sold yet, because

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I see that the market clearing price. I'm not quite there.

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By definition, you can never raise the price of a

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ticket you've already sold. So that's why most of your

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dynamic pricing is actually lowering the price.

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Speaker 2: Unquote.

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Speaker 1: I'm open to that. I mean, there might be math

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that supports that. I understand his argument. I'm skeptical, I'm

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always skeptical of these people, but I understand his argument.