Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willers, your host,
and I'm really excited about tonight's guest. My good friend
Chris Lido is on with us tonight and we're just
going to have a fun discussion. We can talk a
little bit about this, a little bit about that, and
I have actually no idea where we're going, but we'll
have fun. And So the blog this week by Charles
Lear is lying sauce of working party. Now you can
kind of try to figure out what that means. I
have not had a chance to read it, but as
all the blogs that Charles says, it's going to be
very well researched. Check out our website and that blog
and dozens and dozens and dozens of other blogs at
podcastufo dot com. I want to thank all of our
supporters as usual, I really appreciate it. Without you, we
could not move on. The show does cost money. Anyone
can be a supporter over at Patreon, and I want
to also thank each and every listener. Now we're going
to be talking a little bit about Low's book, because
he and I are both right in the middle of
reading it. And what I'm talking about is Luis el
Asondo's book Eminent, and we are both into that. We're
going to talk a bit about that and so much more,
and I'm ready to bring in our guests.
Speaker 2: How you doing, Chris, Hey Martin, Great to be here,
good to see.
Speaker 1: You, so good to have you back. And that was
you know, I have to I've said this many times,
but this is really the first time you've been on
since a year ago, you know, July twenty sixth. That
hearing was definitely the highlight of doing what I do.
That was really amazing. I mean, do you think about
that sometimes and how do you do you feel similarly
about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't believe it was over over a year
ago now, I know it's just flying by. Yeah. It
was certainly a surreal experience.
Speaker 1: It really was. And just to think that you were
the very last person in that door out of the.
Speaker 2: Member Sarah gave up her seat. She was fund of
me because she was with us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people that snuck in front of it.
Speaker 2: I still get a lot of comments saying like, I
can't believe you said you were there. You're not in
any of the photos.
Speaker 1: Oh really, Well, you know what the funny thing is
is every time I see this, And you know, I
just watched a Ross Coldheart interview lu Elisondo, and sure
enough you could see my camera sticking right up in
the air and back row.
Speaker 2: I paused it.
Speaker 1: I make all the.
Speaker 2: Shots I was gonna check out maybe you can see
me in there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I don't know if I've ever I've
seen myself and Donn in a couple of pictures, you know,
but I don't know if I've ever actually seen you.
I'm not really sure if you were really there.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I'm not sure either. It was amazing, and
looking back, I guess I figured we'd have another one
by now.
Speaker 1: I know, and I think they're going to happen. And
one of the things I was going to ask you
are are you would you actually come over again? Or
would it depend on how you know? How it sounded
like if it was like some major players, who would
you come back over again?
Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like I'd certainly be uh interested
for sure. Last time it was a last minute decision
as well. You know, they said I think next week.
It's a week prior when we made the plans.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I I know I mentioned this before
when we were there but I got up in the
morning and I I said to Donna, I just saw
that Chris Leto is going to be there, and if
he's going there, coming all the way from Portugal, then uh,
let's go. And we made the plans and you know,
it was like last minute, like you said, I didn't
know what we were going to encounter as far as
you know, getting around and all that, but it all
worked out really well. Yeah, your your buddy that lived,
you know right there. That was so that was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hopefully still he's still there. I can crash his
place again. Yeah, yeah, do another show. Yeah, I would.
I would definitely want to. I have. I was actually
I haven't told you, but I have a couple of
trips coming up next week. I go to Hestel in
the end of next week.
Speaker 1: Right, you've been there a few times, one.
Speaker 2: Time there, one time, that's it. I was scheduled to
go a second time for the second diving operation and
that got canceled or I canceled it. They they went
and did the operation. But now going back for their
field trip weekend. Awesome, Yeah, it should be awesome.
Speaker 1: Now. That must have been really another surreal experience for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially since you're so tired from traveling. You know,
it wasn't as bad going to Norway because it wasn't
jet lag, but still you have to wake up at
like three am, you know, get to the flight, and
then you're busy the whole time you're there. It was
only three days there, kind of like DC. You know,
it's almost like a dream anyway, you're so tired from
the jet lag and whatever. But yeah, I'm pretty excited.
There's a lot of people going as well as Carl,
Carl the Crusher. Oh really, Yeah, he's going all the
way from Utah. He just bought tickets and we're trying, hopefully,
we're trying to get Jim Sigala to go. If he
watches this, he should definitely go to install his moopass systems.
Do you know about that? The move pass? So basically
Jim Sigali has mentioned a few times, and he actually
did a show with Ross Coultart on his new News
Nation show, which is Kicking all of Our Butts. Yeah,
that's amazing content. So he was on there. Jim Sigala
was on there and he was talking about these It's
basically a measuring system that experiencers can buy and put
in their house. Oh okay, and fracts it online.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: You actually don't know what move past the actual acronym
stands for it, because I should look it up but
or know it better. But we'll find out all the
details in hestallin because that's what Carl's trying to do
there is basically work with team Hestal and Fred Pallison
and the forty plus people there to basically try and
install these systems around the hestall And Valley and they
measure all types of radiation. They measure, you know, all
types of gigahertz ranges. It's like from very low I
think infrasound even they actually have sensors that detect infrasound
all the way up to you know, maybe many gigahertz.
So people can have some you know, crazy experience for
what they consider an experience and then go and actually
look and see if there was any events sort of.
They also tract magnetic anomalies and other types of radiation.
There's actually radiation detectors as well, so it's pretty interesting.
So we'll learn all about that and Heston go out
into the Heston Valley and then they have a couple
of night trips planned or we're going to go out
with a bunch of cameras. So it's a bunch of
UAP NERD. It's going to be also super fun. I
can't wait. Massimo Tara Dorani will be there. I've interviewed
him a few times. He's the astrophysicist from Italy that's
done a bunch of work there. Yeah, several decades, he's
written a few papers, as well as several other people.
Erling Strawan will be leading it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Strand, right, Airling Strand. What's his last name?
Speaker 2: Strand? Yeah, I don't know how to say it correctly.
I say everyone. I say everyone's naming correctly anyway.
Speaker 1: So just a couple of things. Not everyone in the
world knows what we're talking about, and you know how
new listeners always come in and check things out. As
a matter of fact, I'm going to ask you to
say a little bit about yourself. But first of all, Heselin,
the Heselin Lights, that's a phenomenon that's gone. I forget
how far back that has gone. Erling's been on this
show before talking about it, but.
Speaker 2: I think Erling started kind of the project and it
was in the early eighties, I want to say eighty
one or eighty three, but yeah, basically it's Project Hestalon
has been this valley up in Norway, kind of mid
Norway where it's actually colder in middle Norway because it's
in the mountains, and this valley has been the location
hotspot essentially of many lights in the sky over the years.
Erling Strahd went there in eighty one, I believe. It's
all in their website Project Hestalon dot org and they've
been having systems out there in the form of cameras
and other basically tracking devices whatever they can put out there,
which has basically been cameras, videos, and still photography for
since then, so forty years essentially. And he's had a
website that he that has been up and running for
over twenty years as well.
Speaker 1: Now, so there's been a lot of you know, talk
about the possibilities. Here's I'm going to open Project hesselin
here and I can put these also. Oh, the field
trip that you're going to be on right there there,
it is right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyway, there's a lot of people that are
speculating that this is some type of you know, natural
phenomenon due to you know, the metal content or you
know natural resources there or something like that. What are
your thoughts after going there?
Speaker 2: That was one theory and that it's the battery idea
that basically you have a giant natural battery somehow being
created through the rocks. There's a lot of quarts in
the area. And I think I don't know if Masimo
is involved in that paper writing that paper, but anyway,
there is a scientific paper on that theory essentially saying
that it is a natural battery. And so what you
get is these kind of strange anomalies light anomalies if
you will discharging this type this amount of energy into
the air, you know, in a stable configuration, because if
it is a natural phenomenon, no one can actually define
what it is because your normal ball lightning doesn't last
that sort of duration. Ball lightning's like three to five seconds.
You know, they say some of these lights last for hours. Wow.
Other things is the when they actually get a view
on it, you get the full spectrum, like you see there,
You get the full spectrum of elements right considered black
body radiation. You know, if it was a plasma, then
it would it should just be the element that the
plasma is, you know, like green plasma will be a
certain frequency and that should give you like a discrete
spectral line. They've done spectral analysis of these lights as well,
but what they're finding is you get like full spectrum
black body type radiation.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I mean you can see the reflection. Is
that is that?
Speaker 2: No, they just overlaid the spectral analysis.
Speaker 1: Okay, I get it, I get it. I see it now,
I understand it now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what they're showing is that it has a full
body spectrum that's black body radiation essentially, is what they're
arguing from a lot of these data captures. That was
just one there. So yeah, and they also that's just
that part of it, which is I think the part
you should go after, right, the part that you can
actually see in touch or at least see and get
and get photo and video evidence of. And then if
you are getting radar, they have gotten radar hits off
these things as well, Is that right? So that all
types of crazy stuff up there. They've done all types
of experiments over the decades, and so they will.
Speaker 1: A radar reflect a un natural phenomenon or not, you
know what I mean? Like would radar saypos plasma. Is
there any way to know whether a radar would bounce
from that?
Speaker 2: I don't personally know. Actually, yeah, I know radar bounces
off of flocks of geese, and it bounces off of
little ice particles. So that's how in our in the
F six scene, we would use our radars like a
poor man's weather radar, where you tune it and try
and look for where the radar was returned. So when
it's thicker, it's being returned in that area, you're like, Okay,
don't go over there. You know, that's where the bad
part of the storms is. So there's something there's something
there reflecting the radar energy back, you know, some sort
of anomaly, and that's why you know they don't know
what it is. They can't figure it out because what
they say is there's instances where it moves like light speed,
you know, where they get radar hits that don't seem
to make sense. Yeah, and then they can't pare it
to any natural phenomenon like ball lightning. No one can.
There's no good theory for what it is, you know,
those kind of ideas, But the general consensus, I would
say from the mainstream is that, you know, just there's
nothing to see there. It's really just you know, the
standard arguments swamp gas, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't
match any good theory.
Speaker 1: I can't recall when you were there. Did you see anything?
Speaker 2: Uh no, I saw the Aurora borealis.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is really cool.
Speaker 2: I saw lights, lights, I saw northern lights. Yeah yeah,
it was amazing, really good show.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I love it. I love that. I mean
we had not that what was it a month or
two ago. We had incredible all over the country. We
could see in place, so normally we couldn't, you know,
which is pretty.
Speaker 2: Awesome based on solar flares. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: So just in a nutshell for the person you know
that is not familiar with you, and you know, I
know you have a lot of followers that your show
is doing really well, and you were on. I remember
the first time I invited you to doing the show.
You almost you told me that you almost did not
come on because the first time, I'm like making the jump, right,
yeah yeah, because I.
Speaker 2: Mean, you have UFO in the name of your podcast,
so you can't say it was a different thing, like no, yeah, yeah,
for UFOs. Oh yeah, it was the first first podcast
I went on.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah. Basically I grew up in Houston, went to
the Air Force Academy right out of college, and then
became an F sixteen pilot back in two thousand and one,
and then was lucky enough to travel all around the
world flying different assignments, really varied assignments. You have to
move every two to three years. Never saw you anything
related to UFOs, never thought about it. I've adhere to
the strict scientific viewpoint that it's too far away. You
know nothing, as far as we understand it. Nothing in
travel faster than the speed of light. So yeah, there's
probably alien life out there, but it can't get here,
et cetera. Yeah, until basically David Fravor's testimony. So I
retired in twenty twenty. We were living in Spain. Really
liked Europe and wanted to stay in this area, and
so we moved to Portugal, retired here and started making
YouTube videos about varied topics. And really what gained traction
was talking about this topic UFOs, And it's quite interesting.
Speaker 1: I remember watching your one of your early videos on
the subject, debunking the debunkers and something like that, and
that was Mickwest's kind of lame excuse for one of
the one of the videos, and you just broke it
down on why it couldn't be what Mick West said
with your expertise breaking it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had that big. It was pretty awesome, I'd say,
an epic d D debunking debate off essentially as Mickwest
has a team of very smart people actually that work
at metabunk. They don't even know the volunteers. Yeah, yeah,
so he's able to use that team to his advantage
to get these kind of interesting little points that he says,
Oh that's incorrect, you know, which doesn't invalidate the whole video.
You know, even about the gimbal argument, basically it is
I found it. I believe it is rotation based on
the pod. You know, it's the internal workings of the pod.
I agree with him, but it doesn't change any of
the fact that it's still an anomalous object based on
how far away it is, based on how it's maneuvering,
and the fact that it's giving some weird you know,
over oversaturation of the pod anyway, that it's causing a
glare it, Yeah, is all in line with it being
anomalous or some sort of anomalous orb et cetera.
Speaker 1: Do you remember, I don't know if you'd remember his
take on the tic TAC video. So I had basically,
I had Mickwest and Kevin Day on at the same time,
and Kevin went and basically said that there's absolutely you know,
he pointed out reasons why it couldn't be what Mick
West was actually saying that it was. And I'm sorry
I can't remember the details in whole, but the thing
that was really quite amusing out of it is that
Mick West said, I see what you're saying. I understand.
So basically he was admitting that he was wrong. Mick
West admitted that he was wrong, and two weeks later
I saw him on the news and he was right
back to where one like. He never had the conversation
with Kevin Day. So you know, whatever works, I guess,
And now he's like the leading expert according to all
these news people. They bring him on as a leading expert,
which is kind of.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen him as much though I really haven't. Yeah,
I don't know, maybe I just don't watch him.
Speaker 1: I think it makes a lot of good points, but
you know, and it's I think it's really important to
have someone like him out there. But when he, you know,
is so obvious that he's wrong, I don't understand why
he would he would stick with something you know, to
me that doesn't that's not real science or you know,
when you you know, when you can figure it out,
but you're still going to stick with your past thoughts.
You know, a lot of people are you know, do that,
but still doesn't make it right. But so now you
and I Now I'm actually in Lou's book right now,
Lou al Xandra, who's coming up on this show in
September tenth. And by the way, I'm getting a lot
of people sending questions for me to ask him already,
but I'm in, you know, I'm about chapter five, chapter six.
Now Lou is actually reading the book to me because
I got the audio version and so it's really really great.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: I also have the book coming on on the way too.
But but it's fun, you know, listening to him him talk.
So I'm enjoying that because I can do work and
other things while or drive or whatever and listen to it.
So it's been it was a good idea to do that.
So what are your thoughts so far in the book?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm loving it. I think it's so fantastic books
so far. I think I'm in chapter twelve.
Speaker 1: Chapter twelve, I don't know, yeah, chapter five or six,
something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how to cover it, you know,
I want to bring out so many points out of
the book, but also, you know, I don't want to
step on loose toes. You know, I want him to
present his material. He has his own YouTube channel now
as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah I saw that, Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: But so I think there's a amazing parts talks about
the twenty three minute video. I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm waiting for. And I asked him that
question last time he was on you know, when can
we expect to see that? Because that's supposedly a game changer.
I don't know what detail he goes to it into
it in the book, but you know, that's I think
so many people waiting for that, And I actually already
have a couple of people have written that question what
happened to the video? You know? They want me to
ask him that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely goes into a page of detail maybe
on it in the book that it's it sounds quite compelling. Yeah,
he also said in the in the interview. So I
watched the I was reading the book. I'd probably be
done with it, except then it came out with multiple interviews.
So I watched Joe Rogan interview and Ross Coultart's show
with him interview with him, and the Rogan interviews. I
thought it really interesting. He says that the videos we've
seen are the least compelling, and then you know, he said,
you're talking four K video. There's hundreds of compelling videos. Oh,
I'm sure we can't explain.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He mentioned one of the pilots flying and they
hear something on the rate or they see something on
the radar, and then the pilot he cusses, and something
flies within fifty feet of the windscreen, that it's a
wedge shaped object.
Speaker 1: Boy, that would be scary, wouldn't it to be that close.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you would video it though, in
the cockpit.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's going by so fast, right, I mean, yeah,
you kind of wonder if.
Speaker 2: There's weird optical effects, if it's like a bird or something.
But you know, it depends on their altitude. Well, it
can be bird at twenty five thousand feet also, right, yeah,
but it's yeah, it sounds like they pausedive and you
can see it clearly as an object, some sort of
weddg shaped object.
Speaker 1: Hmm. So just I want to just skip back. I
want to continue this conversation, but I want to skip
back and ask you about when you were trained. Did
they ever talk about I'm not going to say the
word UFO, UAP, whatever, but do they ever talk about
if you see something you have a hard time identifying,
or anything along those lines when you were being trained. No,
So I mean, how would how would you know it
was supposedly it was that was addressed in the the
Air Force Academy book one time and removed. You know,
I think there were some people that had uncovered that
that it was actually there. But I mean, I'm just
surprised that there was never any mention of you know,
because of course you have to identify, and you know,
you're a lot of the technology identifies anyway, but still
you have to still identify things. And you can never
recall anytime that they would mention anything.
Speaker 2: About nothing about unidentified flying objects, not once. Yeah, I
mean you're always trying to figure out what something is
that where the enemy is and where the enemy is not.
You know, if f is an interrogator friendly er foe,
that's one of your main systems. So you're definitely always
trying to identify stuff. But even in the air I
can't remember a single time I was like I can't
identify that on the by looking outside visually, and it
was my airspace. Like if something's in your airspace that
you're fighting in and you detect it with your radar
or your eyes, I think you have to identify it.
Speaker 1: Now when you do see something like that, When you do,
you have to write a report. Like if it's a
when you're identifying something, I'm sure you do if it
was an adversary. But I mean, and uh, you know.
Speaker 2: Right well, they have Remember remember it came out. There's
a Freedom of Information Act request in those warning areas
on the East Coast, there was a lot of there
were those UAP sightings like I went through like forty
of them that came out. It was redacted. Okay, it's
because those were in the in the airspace. So if
it interferes with a mission, for some reason or especially
safety of flight. It's really safe. Anything to do with
safety of flight, you have to make a report, right,
So if something of you know, large enough size that
it could damage an aircraft is in the airspace, then
that it should be a safety of flight report. In
actually safety of flight, I was reading loose book. That's
kind of the one thing I think would be most
beneficial for UAP investigation, at least in the d D
is all safety information. They enacted this what's called safety privilege,
and so what that means is what they found is
people would would not bring out information, so would they
lie probably or at least they wouldn't bring anything out
for sure when it comes to accident investigations. So what
they do is they do two separate complete accident investigations.
Whenever there's an accident, they do the AIB, which is
the Accident Investigation Board, and basically that's like criminal has
lawyers and such. They reach your whites right. Well, what
they do is they added a secondary channel called safety
safety privilege, and no one can read. No one actually
knows the identification of any of the stuff that's in
the safety privilege file. So it's non attributional and so
it's protected by law essentially unless you do something criminal,
like with criminal intent you went to steal something. But
if you just make a mistake, then what will happen
is it'll be protected through safety privilege. And I think
that would be the best way to actually treat the
UAP topic is to say that it's a safety of
flight issue and just use the safety channels that we
already have, and when they investigate that, you just take it.
You already have the safety world that already does all
these investigations. Now you just say, okay, we're going to
add in safety UAP and then it just falls in
under the whole investigation everything like FA is whenever there's
a commercial incident, well at least in the Air Force,
they do safety privilege where they're going to go investigate,
but it's going to be non retributional, so none of
the names are saved, they scrub all the data, et cetera.
So that would be a great way to get accurate
reporting from UAP events.
Speaker 1: Do you think Ryan Grave is just going to, you know,
make a difference in any of this with what he's
trying to.
Speaker 2: Do, without a doubt, Yeah, he pushed, so Americans for
Safe Aerospace pushed through his amendment. I believe it was
shot down, right, I think that was Garcia posted an
amendment to the House bill, and it talked about requiring
FAA to allow UAP reporting or some instant there was
some way it helped. It required fa UAP reporting from
what I understand, but it was shot down within like
two days. They cut it before it even made it
didn't even make it to the floor or anything.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's too bad. I mean, it just it
seems like it's a no brainer because it's like you say,
it's in a way it's safety of flight, or it
could be you know, it could be interpreted as that.
Speaker 2: Well, they found it. You're talking safety of flight. Millions
and billions of dollars in many lives. They were finding
that doing retribution, so going after people criminally actually was
hurting the investigations obviously, and so people were not bringing
out when they made mistakes. They weren't bringing up safety issues.
So it's kind of the same thing here as people
aren't bringing up any UAP events that they see because
of the stigma they fear of retribution. Right, So there's
there's already a channel that exists, at least in the
in the DoD world. So any of these military sightings
could just be followed up. They could just be classified
as safety events under UAP, and then all these people
are safe, their identities are protected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now let's get back to to loose book and
all that. For one thing, I I watched uh, you know,
Ross's Coldheart interview him the other night and and saw
Jennifer actually talking his wife, Jennifer, you know, talking about
the toll that has taken on the family. And I've
been in touch with her now for a couple of
years and or three or four years, I think, And
so I wrote her immediately. You know, I had no
idea it was this much of a strain on your family,
And wasn't that bizarre these I mean, I I highly
recommend people if you haven't watched that interview, it's and
I haven't. I haven't watched the Joe Rogan one yet,
but I probably will. But the green orbs, you know,
the hitchhiker effects so to speak, and the green orbs
that were like terrorizing them and you know, in their
and their home. And and that's one I've heard for
some reason green orbs I've heard before that are just
these little small things and almost seem like they're under
intelligent control. I'm not sure if that's the deal or not,
but it really is strange.
Speaker 2: But that's what you said, and can go through walls.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, bizarre. But I mean again, you know,
she makes the point where you know, people think or
say all these mean things. She has written some things
to me that how people have terrorized them basically, and
it's unfortunate that there's people out there that are trying
to make other people's lives miserable, just you know, and
accuse them of all sorts of things, the grifting and
all that. All the accusations which is you know, kind
of silly because of you know, when she talks about
having to take a job at Target and then at
home depot just just to get by, you know, those
it's not like they're you know, getting a lot of
money out of this whole situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. People always complain if anyone promotes their book. Yes,
but there's there's like three people making money in books,
you know, I think it's it's quite rare. It's not
like you're going to pay a normal salary unless you're
one of the extreme top bestsellers, you know, and I
wish his book to be one of those top top
best sellers. I think it could be easily.
Speaker 1: I do too. And he put his you know, when
I was saying I was in touch with her, I started,
you know, communicating with her, I think around the time
when he started the book, and you know, she said
that he's in it really really is taking all of
his time, and so he was really really involved in
writing that book and so far. You know, I had
no idea that he did any type of remote viewing.
I thought that program had closed in like nineteen seventy
or something like that. But you know, he claims that it,
you know, was continued use you know, that it was
actually something substantial, and you know, I mean so I
don't know which I had in the book. I will
have it. I will be through it, you know by
the time I have lu On and uh, you know,
to have some really good, hopefully good questions for him.
Speaker 2: It's amazing the breath of topics that it covers, you know,
angels and demons, right, remote viewing, Yeah, the implants that
was also interesting. I was I was surprised to see
Jennifer on the podcast or the show with Russ Coultart
and then who also had the picture of the implant
that yeah, supposed microfibers coming out of it as some
sort of weird uh fibers coming out of it strands
and then was moving of its own cord and power.
Speaker 1: That is really scary.
Speaker 2: And I was a metal inside as well, so it
was metal surrounded by some biological tissue.
Speaker 1: Now it seems to me that that would be analyzed,
you know what the heck it was. And yeah, that
stuff that was coming out of it looked like little
plastic arms or something, which is you know, these little
squiggly things, which is really bizarre. I don't think there's
anything natural that's gonna grow like that. Plus so that
it's evading, you know, evading.
Speaker 2: The doctor, yes, evading. Yeah, it's creepy.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't one. It reminds me of the movie Alien. I
would not want anything inside of my body like that.
That's so bizarre.
Speaker 2: I made a video last week about Alien, didn't comparing
it to uh praying mantis. Oh yeah, I tried to
do some sort of fun side topic based off of Alien.
Speaker 1: So you really, you really ramped it up. And I
remember you and I had a conversation right before you
you said you were going to really ramp it up.
And so sometimes i'll see like four and five shows
released all at one time, you know from you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was over the summer starting in June. I
did for forty five days. I did a video every
day and then and then totally burned out, crashed, Yeah,
summersaulted down and then crashed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now during two a week, yeah, two a week now, Yeah,
Tuesdays and Fridays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's still that's silly. I mean, you've got
a great audience, you know. I mean there's still a
lot of a lot of people are really interested. But
I've said this, and I know you and I've had
the conversation that there's so many people, and I do
want to actually mention it this time that I really
do appreciate everyone that watches this YouTube channel and wherever
it is else you know, Facebook and all the other places,
and who listen to the audio. That's where my you know,
my major audiences is audio. And I really really appreciate
it because I know I'm going to sound like an airline.
I know you have lots of choices, because you really,
really do. There's you know, people that have these YouTube
channels that have like three million subscribers say well maybe
i'll go down this road, and you know, this is
really popular now, and so I know there's a lot
of people out there that are you know, I've watched
you know, the views go down on YouTube, but my
audio stays the same. But still the YouTube, you know,
has gone down quite a bit. And I don't think
it's because of the content. I don't know, maybe I'm
fooling myself, but I think it's because of the variety
of shows that have popped up, hundreds of them.
Speaker 2: Huge, huge variety. Well you've how long you've been in
this game? Nine ten years now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, thirteen? I think thirteen years coming up in November.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I think you must have seen a
large influx of random people like me joining and starting podcasts.
Speaker 1: Ever since twenty seventeen, you know, that article came out,
So twenty eighteen, I started seeing more and more. But
I would say in the last year, year and a half,
there's been an influx of hundreds of shows on this topic.
Some people I've watched, you know, I get Palmer, who
I had, Palmer who helps me out with all types
of information, and he's also a great artist. I commissioned
a little painting that he did, and so Palmer has
sent me all types of you know, videos constantly of
these different takes on UFOs, UAP, whatever you want to
call them. And there's some really great shows out there.
I have to admit that people are doing a really
good job with this topic and very fascinating and yeah, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's great for you know, discovery, it's
great for learning more information, great for disclosure, bad for
our channel view numbers, et cetera. Yeah, well we need
to step it up, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think either one of us ever had
started this with that in mind. I know I didn't,
you know, I mean way back when you know, I
was I put money into the show on a monthly
basis for you know, six years, you know, several hundred
dollars a month and doing the show, you know, but yeah,
you know, it's it's at a point where it's it's okay,
now it's it's but but I mean for a long
the longest time. So what I'm getting at is, I
don't think either one of you or I ever thought
of doing the show. Money had anything to do with anything.
It's just a curiosity.
Speaker 2: And yeah, exactly for me, it was something I could
something I could do from overseas.
Speaker 1: You know, were you doing something else prior to this on?
Did you have that YouTube channel established?
Speaker 2: And no, I retired in twenty twenty. I actually did
write a book for six months. I wrote a book
about flying in Iraq, and I have it. I have
the draft finished, but I have to go back and
I have to rewrite it, rewrite it, h re edit.
I still haven't. But I did that for six months.
Speaker 1: Like it.
Speaker 2: It does take a long time, a lot of mental effort.
And then started the YouTube channel and like you said,
you put money in time, you know, for at least
the first year and a half, right, and then now yeah,
pays for itself and for additional trips.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah that's right.
Speaker 2: Really thanks to viewers. Yeah, I love I love the audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Isn't it fun to meet people? I
mean when we were in Washington, all the people we
both met, that was so much fun, you know, I mean,
like people recognizing us and you know, we feel like
a celebrity.
Speaker 2: You are a celebrity of Barton.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess. But but still it was it
was so much fun to just be there with you know,
like minds as they say. And and remember that poor
girl that drove all the way from where did she
drive from? She was right behind us and she didn't
get in. Was so frustrating. She was she was you
knew her, You were very friendly with her. She was
New Year's you know, she came there. One of the
reasons she came there was to me too, what's that Sarah?
I think? So blonde here?
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah. We went on a tour after with the congressman.
Oh yeah, yeah from North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Uh oh that's right, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now Sarah's in the UAP Society. Yes, so she was
one of the moderators this whole community that grew up
up society now and they have their own channel. They
do really have their own YouTube. Yeah. U A P Society.
I started it and then now it's run by Ali
and and Justin. But Sarah was also there.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, UEP Society definitely check it out. Every week
they do a weekly UFO news show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's another example another we started another one.
Speaker 2: I started competition for us. Yeah, youah to get more
information out there. There was one point I wanted to
bring up about the book is for the remote viewing.
He also Louel Zondo also talked about the cau date putamen.
Is that part of the brain. Gary Nolan said that
it was enlarged in the cases that were brought to him,
and he said that could be where you gain your
whatever intuition. I think he said that before. Gary Nolan
has on other podcasts, but that could be related to
also remote viewing, that remote viewers have a larger So
they also made that relationship when you mentioned remote viewing
and Loewell's on, I thought of that where they made
a relationship between that part of the brain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he also mentioned that in the Ross's
Coultheart interview where he said he didn't know if that
either attracted you know, UAP or that you know it
was an after effect, you know, which is is still
very interesting and you know, I'm wondering it seems like
if this study is is there's really let it each
of this study. I'm wondering how far that will be taken.
In other words, will the government get involved in actually
studying this or is that just too far out there
for them?
Speaker 2: Well they are right allegedly from Aero.
Speaker 1: Oh you think they are getting involved. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's amazing, right, we get just such opposing perspectives, you know,
you get lou Elizondo who comes out and says this
is real. Then they stand up the arrow, and then
Sean kra Patrick says at you know, vehemently, he's still
saying it. You know, he's not even the director anymore.
He goes on podcasts, you know, there's no evidence of
et we saw everything. It's always the same people. And
then but he's mentioned also nothing about the nimts or
the gimbal or the nuclear events. You know, they haven't
touched any of that stuff. Aero hasn't.
Speaker 1: Well, here's what thing that I watched this kind of
unknown conference where Sean was going to be talking. I
watched it live and someone in the audience raised her
hand in the front row of the press and they said,
what about the you know, the two thousand and four
tic TAC incident off of California. And Sean blatantly said
that you out there you have all the information I have.
I don't have any other information that, so what's what's
to investigate? You can see everything on YouTube. That was
his That was his point on that, and I'm thinking,
oh my god, is he trying to say that, you know,
those bricks were taken off the uh what I can't
forget the name of the ship, the Princeton, right, the Princeton,
those data bricks were taken by someone. And if that's not,
you know, more evidence and I'm sure there's much more
camera footage just supposed to be a lot of footage
of that that's unseen and so we see basically saying
there's nothing to see here. What do you think about exactly?
Speaker 2: And that's what Loue Alzando said. There was another interesting
point I learned from the book is that they investigated
the NIMTS A tip did so they did a full investigation. Yeah,
he said he I think he sat in an interview
with Alex Tetric or at least when she was talking
to Congress, and he said, they have all the data
on it, at least they've done a full investigation. So
I was very interested to hear that. And yet when
you hear kirk Patrick say that there's no more information. Well,
obviously there's a full another investigation that the that the
Air Force has done. You know, is it the same
thing that's been covered already. I can't imagine there's no
new data. What about the radar tapes, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But I mean for him to say that
you everyone out there has all the information there is
on that, I thought that was really pretty lame.
Speaker 2: And Alixander said unequivocally, and I believe the Rogan interview
or the Coultart interview he said, yeah, he's lying. Kirk
Patrick said he live. Yeah, quite interesting that. So no,
I don't think they're investigating it, at least not from
at least not from Aero.
Speaker 1: So on the shows that you've been you've been doing,
I have to say you've been doing so you put
out something every forty five days, so you're catching up
to me as far as the shows that I have
out there, and I know it with a lot of work.
But did you learn a lot doing that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I learned immense amount. And that's when you said,
why do you start doing the YouTube? You know, I'm
sure you did as well because you I'm assuming you
like to talk to people, and so you enjoy interviewing
people every week. Yes, I really enjoyed learning, just learning
new things. So if I can combine that learning with
a video, that that's what I did. And so I
just focused on what did I really want to learn
about that day and then buckled down and made a
video about it for the you know, for the following
day or whatever. So it was really focused on what
I want to learn about, which doesn't always align with
my audience what they want to hear, you know. Yeah, yeah,
there's certain videos that they just don't like at all.
And you mentioned views there there's so much competition now
in the UAP space. You know, if you make a
video off topic, I'm still interested in it. But yeah,
that's that's why I do this to to try and learn. So, yeah,
I learned a huge amount. I covered a variety of
topics going past the old cases. I thought that was interesting.
I learned about astronaut cases, you know, I didn't know
in the first moon landing actually on the way there
there was a UAP siding m I learned about that
quite very interesting. Uh. Yeah, I learned about a Russian
case for nets of for nets a, was that the
one with the real tall beings or yeah, ninety tall
like three eyes, and they like.
Speaker 1: Uh, that's such an intriguing case. I know Peter Robbins
had done some work on that. I'm not sure who
else hasn't investigated that, but yeah, that's a real in
a park or something that is such a bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah another kid mass sighting one. Yeah, yeah, I find
And then I went through I did the Australian cases
Westall and yeah, I went through Westall because I hadn't
really spent too much time with that, so I you know,
I had to catch up you guys with thirteen years
of experience, you know, you know all this stuff. Yeah,
I still get comments, you know, like I can't believe
you don't know about this.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I mean you're just I mean there's still
like I love learning new cases, and there's lots of
them that I've never heard about before. And I'll mention
Eyes on Cinema is you know, putting out all these
things in Palmer, who I was mentioning before meeting up
with him, he has sent me, you know a lot
of really interesting cases that have never never heard before.
And I've tried to get in touch with that person.
Eyes on Cinema and they you know, they were bounced
off of YouTube at one point because of copyright material
and now so yeah, I don't know how they get monetized.
He's not monetized. But you can buy him a cup
of coffee.
Speaker 2: That's right. Okay, that's how it gets around it.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, But I don't know how anyone can
get that material that he get. He gets. He's never
responded to me anytime I've written him, But I know
I can't you know, I don't know what countries and
I do you know anything about that channel?
Speaker 2: No, I watch it time to time, that's it. Or
I or I use videos from there if I can
and they're not copyrighted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I try, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I use Well there's a Canadian case falcon Falcon Lake.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, talking lake. That's always fascinating me.
Speaker 2: I used one one of his videos for that Falcon
Lake with and I saw that in the Ross Coulthard
interview with Louel Zondo. They showed biological effects and that
was one where he's supposedly standing in front of the
vent and it makes like the vent shaped the grid
mark pattern. Yeah, like a grid on his on his
chest in radiation, which allegedly came back later a few
times in his life. So it was like ingrained deeper
than the skin level or something.
Speaker 1: There's there's supposed to be a plaque there, but it's
really remote and hard to get to. But supposedly someone
put a plaque where the incident happened. That would be
that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Too, because they went they allegedly went there, the Mounted
Police or the Mounties went there and tested it with
radiation counters and detected radiation. Yeah, just like Randallstrom Forrest.
That's also you see that in I was just literally
before we talked, I was reading and lose book about
it was the nineteen eighty one case or nineteen eighty
case in Texas. Betty, Uh, you know sees the diamond object.
Speaker 1: And it Oh yes, yes, so you know a Landrum
cash Landrum.
Speaker 2: Case Cash Landrum Betty, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Colby's bepent on the show. He doesn't do very
many appearances at all, and he I did talk him
in getting on my show one time, and since that time,
I've had all these like TV stations and stuff contact
me wanting me to you know, reach out to him,
but he doesn't really want to be interviewed any longer
at this as far as I know, you know. But
but yeah, that's a fascinating case. And Michael Schrader is
one hundred percent convinced that was one of ours. You know,
that it could have been like radiation, I think nuclear
propulsion or something like that gone wrong.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is probably one of the most interesting cases
I learned. You asked what I learned over the past
the forty five days sprint? Was this the Barbel case,
giant Barbell case. Yeah, I love Canada. Yeah, and it
really showed. I mean, the witness is just amazing.
Speaker 1: He's like, literally the guy come forward and identify himself.
Speaker 2: I mean, that guy should go to a hearing. He's
got the video where he took the video and it's
just static. You can't see, but you can hear. Yeah,
why would you have no static on a on a videotape?
So interesting, and his cameras wouldn't turn on. And he
was like a laser physicist. So he basically said that
the craft worked by electromagnetic propulsion, some sort of em field.
There was anodes and cathodes and it would create this
plasma around the object when it was rotating. And so
what he said, he like measured the plasma. He knew
it was twelve inches across and could determine like the
actual power output. It was some immense ridiculous power output
for this electromagnetic craft. But that goes back to Loo's book.
He talks about EMPs essentially, that's what how Putov said.
It was an electromagnetic pulse that knocked down two aircraft
at Roswell. Yeah, Lou again comes out says, he says
Roswell was real. There were two craft and they got
four bodies out of that deceased one.
Speaker 1: Thing I thought was kind of interesting that he said
that one craft actually took off.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, that's right. So one crashed and then
one was still intact and left.
Speaker 1: But yeah, supposedly the one that would have taken off,
it was like fifty miles away. That other supposed thing
the size of a Volkswagen was there. I don't know,
you know, I mean, it's so confusing, and I've had
people on trying to figure out that whole thing is,
what's real and what's you know, I don't want to
say fabricated, but just rumor or whatever, trying to figure
it all out. But yeah, that was you know, he
did mention how many times the government has lied about that.
You know, I can't believe this. But we're at the
end of the show already. How did it happen?
Speaker 2: Chatterboxes? Yeah, oh, I want to tell you mentioned we
mentioned Ross Cultard a few times. He's killing it. But
I'm going on an Egyptian trip that JP Haig set
up and he advertised it as Ross Coulthard. It was
like eighteen months ago. I totally forgot I even signed up.
It got delayed because of the war and then but
now it's going in November, so we'll actually.
Speaker 1: Be Oh my god, that ought to be a blast. Huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's long. It's eleven days. I think ten days.
Speaker 1: Wow, boy, that'll be a great fer. That's amazing, great
experience for you. All right, man, we gotta go, so
good to see you.
Speaker 2: Okay, Thanks Mary, Let's talk soon, all kay, see bye?
Speaker 1: All right, everyone, So we'll be back. I keep saying
we're gonna have Earl Gray on next week. This time
it's for real. One time he had to reschedule, but
I had it mixed up with between Chris and and Earl,
so he will be on next week. Thank you so
much everyone, and keep your eyes to the sky.