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Speaker 2: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 2: killers in true crime history. And the authors that have
Speaker 2: written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 2: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 2: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 2: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening.
Speaker 6: A memoir of a double life as a mafia enforcer
Speaker 6: and a Department of Justice informant taking down corrupt cops
Speaker 6: and politicians. Aiden Gebor was still a teenager when Department
Speaker 6: of Justice agents approached him with an ultimatum his life
Speaker 6: in prison for racketeering, embezzlement, extortion, and conspiracy to commit
Speaker 6: murder or become an undercover agent. Conflicting Loyalties is a sharp,
Speaker 6: honest memoir in three parts, the bloody life of a
Speaker 6: mob soldier from outside the family, the death defying paranoid
Speaker 6: existence of an informant bringing down corrupt politicians and police
Speaker 6: departments from the inside. An unexpectedly finding peace late in
Speaker 6: life through the Bahai faith while coping with an als diagnosis.
Speaker 6: Conflicting Loyalties is a visceral tale of a man who
Speaker 6: gambles with his own life in order to save it,
Speaker 6: dodging his fate while searching for an identity, a father,
Speaker 6: and a family. The book that we're featuring this evening
Speaker 6: is Conflicting Loyalties, My life as a mob enforcer turned
Speaker 6: Department of Justice informant, with my special guest author, Aiden Gabor.
Speaker 6: Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for
Speaker 6: this interview. Aiden Goeboor.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, sir, looking forward to it talking
Speaker 4: all about Pready books.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. First off, for anybody that's listening
Speaker 6: at all, your voice has been disguised doing some sort
Speaker 6: of modulation to your voice. And also that the names
Speaker 6: have been changed in this book, like you say, to
Speaker 6: protect the guilty, So ninety nine percent of the names
Speaker 6: that we will be naming are fictitious. To protect yourself
Speaker 6: and other people as well. You say, let's talk about
Speaker 6: initially as you do here. Take us back to when
Speaker 6: you were sixteen years old, your prospects as an athlete,
Speaker 6: where you were and what kind of town you were in,
Speaker 6: New Jersey, and about the city to right that was
Speaker 6: run by mobsters and street gangs, breeding grounds for criminals
Speaker 6: and heroin flowed in and out of the ports. Tell
Speaker 6: us about your early life, your background, your parents, and
Speaker 6: how you became involved with mobsters and street gangs yourself.
Speaker 4: And in my life started, I was typical teenager town
Speaker 4: was a typical town and nowadays I was more of
Speaker 4: an area the gangs where we didn't come into our
Speaker 4: area because there was mortalia. They had a area like that.
Speaker 4: We had our own about ourselves. It was it was
Speaker 4: just a normal town like it is today where I
Speaker 4: mean I played sports, We did things outside, you know,
Speaker 4: we had activities. It started out where it was my
Speaker 4: father was doing things and even though we were hungarian,
Speaker 4: we wanted to tell you, but I'd still work with
Speaker 4: the guys. And we would grow up and have like
Speaker 4: family dinners and we had side with the kids and
Speaker 4: being typical things. And in that type of environment, you
Speaker 4: had to prove yourself, you know, either be a wool
Speaker 4: or be a sheep is the way it is. Or
Speaker 4: I got a lot of scuples, a lot of old voice.
Speaker 4: I was able to hold my own. Really, the street
Speaker 4: gangs came out, It wasn't that much with street games,
Speaker 4: but as far as my younger life, I they went
Speaker 4: to working just ride our bikes. He dropped off this
Speaker 4: envelope to this person and then it don't look just
Speaker 4: take it. You might use some bread and just bring
Speaker 4: it back. We did it. I would ride my bike
Speaker 4: and drop stuff off and nobody messed with us, and
Speaker 4: we would you get it, return it, and then you
Speaker 4: get money from home. We thought great, and we'd run
Speaker 4: to see stores, the candy stores and pick up candy
Speaker 4: and stuff. And it just worked out for their. As
Speaker 4: I got older, I proved myself to I didn't get
Speaker 4: in fights and not care about me hurting anybody, and
Speaker 4: I defended myself with older boys. I can think I
Speaker 4: was not as small for my age, so I was
Speaker 4: be considered very big for my age. And just how
Speaker 4: it was growing up there.
Speaker 6: You talk about that you were a small guy, and
Speaker 6: you also were exposed to violence, so you weren't shy
Speaker 6: at all when that when that happened, and that occurred,
Speaker 6: you didn't feel too much in terms of regret or
Speaker 6: remorse at anything or anyone that you may have heard.
Speaker 6: So you got the attention of this person that you
Speaker 6: say that when you played football, this guy was in
Speaker 6: the stands. He knew your father, you knew him, and
Speaker 6: then so that's how you became involved. And then you
Speaker 6: impressed these people with your greed election for violence or
Speaker 6: being able to be not afraid to do some harm
Speaker 6: to somebody. And you certainly had the skills, and you
Speaker 6: had the size and the ability to intimidate. You say,
Speaker 6: you talked about your development and you were a good
Speaker 6: car thief. Tell us about your ascent into this crime family,
Speaker 6: and tell us what it was really like.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I started when I was eleven years old, like
Speaker 4: I said, right in a bike, and I just moved
Speaker 4: my way up. And yes, the violence was all around us.
Speaker 4: And I mean the first time I saw somebody was
Speaker 4: just getting getting the crap kicked out of them and
Speaker 4: beating the shit out of them, and I just kind
Speaker 4: of looked, and I was told that he goes, don't
Speaker 4: worry about him, he's nobody. Kind of laughed about it,
Speaker 4: and I walked away, you know that point. And then a
Speaker 4: couple more times it was kind of happening and he'd
Speaker 4: said they say no but nobody, and he's like, hey,
Speaker 4: what do you get proves up? Do you think he
Speaker 4: could do something like this? And I kind of laughed.
Speaker 4: I said, cons better you know, it sucks to be here,
Speaker 4: and better him than me, And the guy mouthed it
Speaker 4: off a little bit and I didn't grab him, broad
Speaker 4: him across the room and we're beating. I mean, I
Speaker 4: just beat the living shit out them too, and they're like,
Speaker 4: pull me up, don't kill them. You know, hey, you
Speaker 4: know that's bad business. But at the point that'sn't see.
Speaker 4: But I didn't know to be like this, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. He goes, no, no, no, and it worked
Speaker 4: their way up. He goes, I got some mother still
Speaker 4: for you to do. And I would go around and
Speaker 4: I was with I guess you'd call like a shoot
Speaker 4: trainee and his name but to Nick and he picked
Speaker 4: me over. But he was an ass and then I
Speaker 4: really we never really got along and he was talking.
Speaker 4: And the first thing I learned walking around looking at
Speaker 4: is when you respect each other, it's where you don't
Speaker 4: respect it at started fights and most people, if they
Speaker 4: own something, you're just doing a point. And but the
Speaker 4: abily bad for Munce to solve for much other crews.
Speaker 4: When they ended up poaching in our area, that was
Speaker 4: a problem and we would rectify that right away. But
Speaker 4: growing up, when he would be Eddie would be in
Speaker 4: the stands, and you know, he grew more positively. My
Speaker 4: father was already ever around. He was working, and he
Speaker 4: still did stuck with Eddie, but he did other things.
Speaker 4: But Eddie's looked at me and he saw something and
Speaker 4: he said, you know what, let's go. This kid doesn't
Speaker 4: have any remorse anything. And you know, eventually on later
Speaker 4: on in life, by West pro that I don't have
Speaker 4: a empathy for the name way. I don't care. As
Speaker 4: long as it's not family or friends. It was a
Speaker 4: family or friend number, than we have a problem. Other
Speaker 4: than that, I didn't care. To this day, my wife
Speaker 4: can't understand. When we watched movies, somebody getting hurt and
Speaker 4: to me, it's funny. I grew up with that sceneing that,
Speaker 4: and I had no crolls about beating up anybody or
Speaker 4: meeting the crap out of anybody, and growing up on that.
Speaker 4: There was one incident I did put it in the book.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of things I did not put
Speaker 4: in the book. They said ninety exact putting the book
Speaker 4: or also read be sitting there. We'd have like volumes
Speaker 4: of pages. But I had one or a guy who's
Speaker 4: going and he goes, hey, that's that we're eating and
Speaker 4: he goes looking outside the wonder that, like eighteen twenty eight.
Speaker 4: So I go running out and I'm beating that. I
Speaker 4: started kicking the crap I was I grabbing one hand.
Speaker 4: I told him get some dominantority. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 4: And I'm still eating a sandwich. Yeah you damn it.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna call him sandwich. I said, Okay, I
Speaker 4: didn't like the name, but that's what he states started
Speaker 4: calling me.
Speaker 6: Yes, this is a guy that he comes up as
Speaker 6: a character later on. According to you, his name was Dominic,
Speaker 6: So he didn't really he was envious or mistrusting of you.
Speaker 6: But the guy that you were working for, Eddie, trusted you.
Speaker 6: Took you under his wing, and you became his personal enforcer.
Speaker 6: So you proved yourself and he trusted you, and you
Speaker 6: were involved in his crew. And you were still very
Speaker 6: very young. He graduated high school, and you had plans.
Speaker 6: You were good in football. You were a good football player,
Speaker 6: and you thought that might be your only shot at
Speaker 6: college since you said you had problems in school, you
Speaker 6: suffered from pessexia. And so tell us what happens with
Speaker 6: this crew, what kinds of things these this crew was
Speaker 6: involved with, and that you were involved with as a result,
Speaker 6: tell us about some of the things, the crimes and
Speaker 6: the things that were involved with his crew and what happens.
Speaker 4: Climes you mostly that they were really was crosstitutes of rectory,
Speaker 4: you know, a wall shark and then you would you
Speaker 4: would bet on the you know, sports betting on it.
Speaker 4: As far as drugs that he is like, he did
Speaker 4: not know, we did not do. He caught you in
Speaker 4: that you were dire straits. Is it lead that for
Speaker 4: the gangs on them growing their neighborhoods. We're not going
Speaker 4: to touch that. We have other things. Let's get cars.
Speaker 4: So we zipped cars, and I mean I was good
Speaker 4: at it. You just go in at back in the
Speaker 4: day and you know, and you see it nice BMW
Speaker 4: or something. You can run and you can pop up
Speaker 4: the lock and with the reds and the screwgard and
Speaker 4: you can go. And there's a couple of times. There's
Speaker 4: one I took off and somebody said something and I
Speaker 4: hit him a couple of times. Don't meet and see
Speaker 4: it tuns a fucking thing, and he never heard anything.
Speaker 4: Another time I was going and the cops came behind
Speaker 4: me and I was able to elude on him and
Speaker 4: I'd bring it in and drop off the cars and
Speaker 4: they would take care of him. He got pretty good,
Speaker 4: nice little stipe and every time he'd bring one in.
Speaker 4: I didn't do too many of those. I only did
Speaker 4: maybe five. I was more like, hey, this guy was money,
Speaker 4: Go see what you can get it. Give him a
Speaker 4: reason to think about what he owes that he needs
Speaker 4: to pay on the point. And that was really what
Speaker 4: I did. And course, now as far as Dominic, I
Speaker 4: don't know if he envied me. He was really Eddie's
Speaker 4: number two. I came in and I was a punk,
Speaker 4: and I think he looked at it as me when
Speaker 4: I was younger, as couples. I'd get in and I
Speaker 4: you know, he would talk shit to me and I
Speaker 4: just wouldn't tap it. I just walk away. And one
Speaker 4: time he did he kind of hit me and I
Speaker 4: took a pipe and I was good. I went nice
Speaker 4: one and I hit him and then he looked at
Speaker 4: me these eyes, and to this day I could never
Speaker 4: forget these eyes. And he was going to go pull
Speaker 4: on me, and that he said that's enough enough. Then,
Speaker 4: you know, we had a little old guy in the
Speaker 4: shop that was always in there, and he grabbed him
Speaker 4: and said, you know what, don't don't you know we
Speaker 4: want to mess with me, And he's like, no, sonos,
Speaker 4: they're more scared of Getty. But I really didn't talk
Speaker 4: about him in the book. It was more like a
Speaker 4: I did. Here's more eleno Onie realized that I think
Speaker 4: I was a good ally rather than against somebody. It
Speaker 4: was one of those like never trusted me. And because
Speaker 4: I was not Italian, I was from daring and I
Speaker 4: don't know if he looked at it differently because of that,
Speaker 4: but I knew I couldn't go other than inforce things.
Speaker 4: And as far as everybody talks about with the murders
Speaker 4: anything like that, it was bad business. You didn't do things.
Speaker 4: If somebodyled your money and you did to them, what
Speaker 4: are you going to get those whole thing? Most of
Speaker 4: the things bad things happened, we hit amongst other crews
Speaker 4: and ourselves. That was where more things were. And as
Speaker 4: fur things that happened, we want rocket scientists. We had
Speaker 4: what was available to and you know ours. It was
Speaker 4: basically a garage, so whatever you'd have around the garage
Speaker 4: is what we would use. And things you brought your
Speaker 4: He brought guns to just keep people in check, and
Speaker 4: then you'd use other optics to get your coin across,
Speaker 4: as you would put it. That was almost every day
Speaker 4: and not every other day thing growing up. And then
Speaker 4: when I the FBI and all that started getting in
Speaker 4: and everybody came up and he's like, we got to go.
Speaker 4: I'm leaving and he's like, you you need to go.
Speaker 4: And you've ever been arrested, you know in all this
Speaker 4: you need to go to college and get yourself straight
Speaker 4: and take care of what you need to take care of,
Speaker 4: which is you and your family. And I'm going to
Speaker 4: do what I have to do right And I guess, sir,
Speaker 4: And I looked up to this guy, and a lot
Speaker 4: of people are saying, you have somebody that's like, you know,
Speaker 4: your mentor and mine happened to be a very violent person.
Speaker 4: And you know, I realized that today, but back then
Speaker 4: it was awesome being that because you had a lot
Speaker 4: of respect. And to this day, I don't like being disrespected.
Speaker 4: And I learned that growing up. I've gotten a lot
Speaker 4: of fights being who I am in a short temperment. Basically,
Speaker 4: I'm getting better at it. And he came to football
Speaker 4: and all that night I did I went in on
Speaker 4: a scholarship, and I, you know, they came in to anything,
Speaker 4: gave me an ultimate And it's not that I didn't
Speaker 4: go under I didn't do undercover. I was not undercovered.
Speaker 4: I went in as an informant. Basically, if they say
Speaker 4: is sending you in because they're gonna trust you. They know,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to your town. You're going to
Speaker 4: do this in your town. They're actually and you're gonna
Speaker 4: be by yourself. So if something goes wrong, they conveyed
Speaker 4: by to help you. So and he even said that
Speaker 4: one look at me. He goes, give us said, he goes,
Speaker 4: if something happens to you, and we'll be okay with it.
Speaker 4: We don't know. Let you know that if something for
Speaker 4: your choices are pretty much limited here. And I kind
Speaker 4: of thought I had to think about it. I thought,
Speaker 4: you know what, yeah, I'll do and that's helped start.
Speaker 4: They're doing that when I did the first, you know,
Speaker 4: I had to get on. They would give me a
Speaker 4: little hope and I had gone so they wouldn't know.
Speaker 4: And usually the dook would run with the FBI. But
Speaker 4: when I was younger and they knew, I used to
Speaker 4: see guys in the shop or around there there were
Speaker 4: g men. Because one guy was sitting there, I go
Speaker 4: and I see his bad. You're a g man and
Speaker 4: he's like, yeah, and let me look at the bad.
Speaker 4: So you know they knew that. They said, no, if
Speaker 4: you see what, don't they're not with us. We're not
Speaker 4: under dad nothing. No, they don't know anything about you.
Speaker 4: This is this undercover. You're not. You're an informed that's all.
Speaker 4: And they gave me money. I got paid. I got
Speaker 4: paid well for it. You know. They said, party yourself
Speaker 4: out of school, and you got to look like you
Speaker 4: partied yourself out of school, and I would get you
Speaker 4: the first time to get your grand and I went
Speaker 4: and't partying them. I did what they did, I mean,
Speaker 4: pissed my father off. Believe I didn't know them. I
Speaker 4: was told I told my parents the deals off and
Speaker 4: we're all going to jail. And you know, being eighteen,
Speaker 4: I'm stupid. I believe them.
Speaker 6: In the introduction, we talk about that they threatened you
Speaker 6: with that the crimes you were associated with, this organized
Speaker 6: crime crew that racketeering, embezzlement, extortion, and conspiracy to commit murder.
Speaker 6: So they threatened you and you said you were eighteen.
Speaker 6: You didn't know any better. You asked for a lawyer,
Speaker 6: but they said we couldn't protect you. So this must
Speaker 6: have been a difficult decision because you thought that they
Speaker 6: would at least be asking you to turn evidence on
Speaker 6: the people that trusted you and were took you in
Speaker 6: as a family.
Speaker 4: When they came and told me they did, they had
Speaker 4: all kinds of stuck like they're that's what they were
Speaker 4: telling me. You know you're gonna go to jail, You're
Speaker 4: gonna just there's no way you could protect you. I
Speaker 4: was young and not to this thing. I know that
Speaker 4: there's nothing they could have proven that I did it.
Speaker 4: They just showed me pictures and being dumb, I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know. Eventually I figured
Speaker 4: it out that no, there's no clucking way up to
Speaker 4: the joke. There was no rest nemok empty in. They're suing.
Speaker 4: But that's what they said, you're doing an afformance. And
Speaker 4: I'm going to be much saying this to say, I
Speaker 4: never informed on the crew anybody at that as. I
Speaker 4: won't after bad police officers and politicians never once And
Speaker 4: they asked, but what about this, and you know, I go,
Speaker 4: I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You know,
Speaker 4: those are the wrong answers. I'm not going to answer
Speaker 4: because I never I would never portray those guys for
Speaker 4: some day were my family and mentor growing up. As
Speaker 4: far as seeing these doing this with the priests, I
Speaker 4: saw them doing the bad things, and in my head
Speaker 4: I used to think, Okay, I know I was an
Speaker 4: ass and did bad things, but I knew that seeing
Speaker 4: these guys supposed to be protecting, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: to protect and serve, and they were doing bad things,
Speaker 4: taking money, doing these bad things, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 4: that's bad. That's worse than what you're not. You're going
Speaker 4: against what you said. You shouldn't go it against you
Speaker 4: to have a pride. And yes, I did what I
Speaker 4: did when I was younger, but we knew what we
Speaker 4: were doing. We weren't told to protect anybody. We protected
Speaker 4: our area. I guess you can say our neighborhoods, but
Speaker 4: we didn't. Police officers are different and Titians are different.
Speaker 4: They were supposed to help people when you seem not
Speaker 4: help be In my mind, I thought I was doing
Speaker 4: the right thing.
Speaker 6: So let's talk about how you become involved in being
Speaker 6: a police informat of all things.
Speaker 4: Yes, they wanted me to go and they said, we
Speaker 4: have this. They would want to go check on this guy.
Speaker 4: You might even know him. He's a police officer, but
Speaker 4: supposedly he's committed murders. And he said, and further up
Speaker 4: for a crew and I'm like grad and he's like, okay,
Speaker 4: you gotta go go do this, and they want to
Speaker 4: hear it. But you know, like I said, you get
Speaker 4: get off of school. You're just going you got to
Speaker 4: get on your own. We'll get you as far as
Speaker 4: we can. But this that'spianiel. It's because nobody can know
Speaker 4: what's going on. So I went tested. I got on
Speaker 4: the department and they told me the guy's name is Terry,
Speaker 4: and he's like, get friends with this guy. Become friends.
Speaker 4: So I mean I took several months per year before
Speaker 4: he really comes because he was more of a loaner.
Speaker 4: Eventually he got in. Then we realized because I know
Speaker 4: who you are, and I'm like, how do you do
Speaker 4: because I've seen you before and I'm like in my
Speaker 4: eye like oh yeah, yeah, I remember. I know flo
Speaker 4: the guy was. He said, he seemed I had no clue,
Speaker 4: and he said, well, would you be the cap boy?
Speaker 4: Because really? He goes, do they know about what you did?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I don't really don't advertise it. Why
Speaker 4: I why should I'm not bragging about it. I go
Speaker 4: there was bullshit things like oh, no minute, that must
Speaker 4: have been awesome working the cruise. So we just started
Speaker 4: drinking and went out and we would go out and party.
Speaker 4: We go to the to the restaurants and drink, and
Speaker 4: then he'd bring his wife and she's very good looking,
Speaker 4: and eventually we became good friends. And this was the
Speaker 4: first one. And eventually he got to open up to me,
Speaker 4: and he said, you know, run and I wanted to
Speaker 4: get a crew so bad. I'm like okay, and he's like,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm doing things that he goes, I've done
Speaker 4: a couple of things. He goes, I don't think you
Speaker 4: talk bullshit because I know about you and younger. I'm like, well,
Speaker 4: what the fuck? I don't what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: And he told me what he did, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: think the myceleration in my head and my guy just
Speaker 4: kept playing with him and we're oh, yeah, yeah, really yeah,
Speaker 4: And he's telling me and I just eventually I went
Speaker 4: over there and then we went out with a couple
Speaker 4: of time. His wife used to tag on and she's crying.
Speaker 4: She goes, I'm sure he told you. I don't know
Speaker 4: what they thure eat me up inside. I don't know
Speaker 4: how to do this. I'm like, well, you know, just
Speaker 4: don't think about it. And then when I got to
Speaker 4: the guys and they were for them and said they
Speaker 4: just wanted for me. What is the best way we
Speaker 4: can get these guys? What did they take? Because you
Speaker 4: don't watch to death the part because when he tested
Speaker 4: the part you're want and done, it's we can't use
Speaker 4: it anymore. And I'm like really, and then they're like, no,
Speaker 4: we don't want you just want the information on which
Speaker 4: way you're stuck. And I came back, so, you know,
Speaker 4: bump the wife. He's the one. She's already on the edge.
Speaker 4: I think she'll she'll hit top on this one. But
Speaker 4: this is what he said he did. And it was
Speaker 4: funny because every time I see me kind of like
Speaker 4: bump into me, I'm like, dude, I'm I'm not I'm
Speaker 4: not gay, and he says, no, I'm just making sure
Speaker 4: he got somebody that's really how the first one and
Speaker 4: then when he got caught or he you know, the
Speaker 4: funny part is is one of the tunings he did.
Speaker 4: He was the first officer unseene so and something like that,
Speaker 4: whose fingerprints will be all over the dog in place,
Speaker 4: you see the first the officers are on scene. So
Speaker 4: he was trying to get away with the perfect crush.
Speaker 4: And yeah, they eventually they got them with the information
Speaker 4: that I was able to try it.
Speaker 6: You say that you're right that he admitted to killing
Speaker 6: three people. And then you got a call from your
Speaker 6: lieutenant was again oblivious of your undercover work, saying that
Speaker 6: he had been arrested by the FBI and told you
Speaker 6: that he was a contract killer, and you had to
Speaker 6: act surprise and incredulous, didn't you?
Speaker 4: That was he called? It was that to your corporal
Speaker 4: call and be telling me and probably really and he's like,
Speaker 4: are you shooting me? He goes, see how he goes,
Speaker 4: don't know what's going on, but they're all over the
Speaker 4: fucking department. How was your buddy going along with drinks?
Speaker 5: Mber?
Speaker 4: You know, he wasn't like a buddy, and somebody knew
Speaker 4: in the department. Because we don't want to really talk
Speaker 4: to him, I'm like, oh, fuck this ship. And then
Speaker 4: you know they want us to do. I resigned from
Speaker 4: the department and end up they asked me to another
Speaker 4: departm which happened to be my and I went in
Speaker 4: there and worked my way to get into there, and
Speaker 4: in that department, the punny part was is the commissioner
Speaker 4: would say that, and he's somebody I knew, and somebody
Speaker 4: I knew it through Eddie, and he said, you know
Speaker 4: you'll be going to I'll total line. Like you said,
Speaker 4: you know you're doing it, I'll total line. You know,
Speaker 4: I know you'll be what needs to be done. You'll
Speaker 4: listen to what we have to say because you know
Speaker 4: we know about your youngerness. I'm like, get sir. And
Speaker 4: that's how I kind of got on to that department
Speaker 4: and then worked from there taking on those officers. And
Speaker 4: then there was also a politician that was a vault
Speaker 4: and I ended up Kim, who I knew more person
Speaker 4: might than the others.
Speaker 6: Also talk at the bluffs at the precinct. You're a
Speaker 6: good friend, you name you. You single out two people,
Speaker 6: Sam Schwartz and Donnie Cooper. And Donnie Cooper is a
Speaker 6: police officer that works at the Bluffs Precinct, and you
Speaker 6: just mentioned that you knew you name him Paul Ciolino
Speaker 6: in as the mayor of this bluffs of the Bluffs,
Speaker 6: and tell us how you know this mayor of this
Speaker 6: little town. And tell us about Donnie Cooper Donnie.
Speaker 4: I up with Donnie. He worked there, and he used
Speaker 4: to tell me, you know, when I got it all good,
Speaker 4: my buddy out and now he's straightly He's like, the
Speaker 4: best thing about don and me is Donnie is loyals
Speaker 4: can be. He's not the sharpest playing and told me
Speaker 4: we're not the smartest shark traming door, but we will
Speaker 4: protect each other. He never really knew about what's going
Speaker 4: on until later on and he kind of put it
Speaker 4: together and he's like, are you shitting me? I can't
Speaker 4: believe that you've been doing this for the song and
Speaker 4: what do you need? Tell me, I'll help you, help man.
Speaker 4: And he helped me out immensely. As far as that's
Speaker 4: how Donnie and Donnie I grew up in sam I
Speaker 4: grew up with my whole time, and dam was a
Speaker 4: character all his own, very smart and good dull. You know.
Speaker 4: One of the things I used to say is well.
Speaker 4: He knows more about computers and stuff like that. I
Speaker 4: knew about finance and crime. It's one of those. He
Speaker 4: was oblivious to a lot of things that went on.
Speaker 4: He was more in his glass house. We used to do,
Speaker 4: but he was a very He's a good friend and
Speaker 4: him and Don were really helped me out when I
Speaker 4: started doing this. Eventually he realized me become a police officer,
Speaker 4: there's a blue line you don't cross. You don't snitch
Speaker 4: on each other because once you do that and they
Speaker 4: find out who did it, you're like a leopard. And
Speaker 4: it didn't me doing this. So I started taking out
Speaker 4: his police officers and as far as the mayor, I
Speaker 4: married into somebody's part of their family. And that's how
Speaker 4: I knew him when I was younger. As growing up
Speaker 4: and realizing when I was younger, younger, what I used
Speaker 4: to do bring to him and everything that was involved
Speaker 4: with him, I knew, you know, he told me around me,
Speaker 4: he said, you know, do me a favorite and don't
Speaker 4: talk to anybody. You know you don't know about what
Speaker 4: he got to thank you, and that would be it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was showing something like we came out
Speaker 4: and he's like oh, I seen ate him before. I
Speaker 4: think I made know his father, but I was talking
Speaker 4: about is this his father? And the picture over here?
Speaker 4: And it was, and so he knew them through that
Speaker 4: and eventually they you know, I got up, but it
Speaker 4: ate it. They ad me to a clin you know,
Speaker 4: I got became an alcoholic and I used to play
Speaker 4: Russian Route. I did it. Can I tell you how
Speaker 4: many times I did this. I used to wake up
Speaker 4: screaming that night and you would they would just go nuts,
Speaker 4: right my ex and like what's going on? I would
Speaker 4: see lady just the standard with their flating store coming
Speaker 4: at me that I betrayed everything. And I don't know
Speaker 4: if you know how that is with police officers, but
Speaker 4: you know, I bad inside and I knew I was
Speaker 4: doing good that these guys had to get taken out,
Speaker 4: and you know, started off being I was forced to,
Speaker 4: but towards the end, I knew I was doing right
Speaker 4: by doing what it was doing.
Speaker 6: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a
Speaker 6: second to hear these messages.
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Speaker 5: Nobk necessary wherever by lost in terms conditions eighting plus.
Speaker 6: Now let's go back for our audience, because this central
Speaker 6: figure in this is this agent Jackson that keeps transferring
Speaker 6: you and reassigning you. And as you write much later,
Speaker 6: it's your duty to do this to avoid that prosecution
Speaker 6: when you were young. And part of that is that
Speaker 6: you're to transfer and luckily you just get together with
Speaker 6: your buddy Donnie Cooper that you can confide in. And
Speaker 6: but your mission is to bring down some corrupt politicians.
Speaker 6: And you say that this Paul Ciolino was a friend
Speaker 6: of yours. But what's your job now? What are you
Speaker 6: tasked to do?
Speaker 4: Well? Information is what are they doing? Are they doing this?
Speaker 4: We need to know where are they doing this at?
Speaker 4: Where can we contail creation and eventure. I find all,
Speaker 4: I find all all you're doing. He the time guns,
Speaker 4: but my face as far as with the mayor, he
Speaker 4: was just arrogant. I guess you can use the word
Speaker 4: and guy. I used to know the area he'd being
Speaker 4: doing it, and I'm like, hey, this is like a
Speaker 4: work spot. I go, yeah, that's where they were, that's
Speaker 4: where they're having their conversations on we're getting involved in this.
Speaker 4: I go, yeah, there's officers a lot. Ninety percent the
Speaker 4: officers they're not saying nothing, no idea, what's going on?
Speaker 4: I think ninety five percent. But I know that there's
Speaker 4: their commissioner, and I know that it's there and that
Speaker 4: who's over there doing this, And I would like, I
Speaker 4: tell them where the areas or they went to to
Speaker 4: look for this. You get the information. I got information
Speaker 4: through it. And then Don would hear things because he'd
Speaker 4: be in different there. He'd tell me what they were saying.
Speaker 4: And Jackass or Jackson. I mean, these guys they didn't
Speaker 4: really just they you know, eventually I realized when I
Speaker 4: started working on first, you know, they couldn't put me care.
Speaker 4: But then I realized I'm doing something good. So I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, I'm in this now. I can't just stop.
Speaker 4: I'm in this and I'm in this deep. So you know,
Speaker 4: it comes to Fritionan and finishes what happens, or I
Speaker 4: did myself killed you don't one of you too. And
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest, man, I wasn't worried about dying.
Speaker 4: To this day, I'm not to me, I know, be
Speaker 4: a better place. But at that time, you know, when
Speaker 4: I had the guns put in my face, I had
Speaker 4: to use my we mind he get out of it.
Speaker 4: You know, I had one time in the station, I
Speaker 4: was going up and the gun that pulled in my
Speaker 4: face and I'm on the bottom part of the stairs,
Speaker 4: ring up the stairs and I'm thinking to myself, I'm
Speaker 4: looking at this right now on the barrel, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: the fuck is your problem? Well, yeah, you're fucking fucking
Speaker 4: what's any knocking on? It's like, what the fuck are
Speaker 4: you talking about? What the fuck am I going to
Speaker 4: go do something like that? And he says like no,
Speaker 4: you know, he goes, I don't fucking trust you. And
Speaker 4: these guys had so much they could do something like
Speaker 4: that and say, you know what, He went at me
Speaker 4: with the weapon. You know, he's a back guy. Look
Speaker 4: what he did when he was a kid, and that's
Speaker 4: what you're on. And I looked to listen here as
Speaker 4: I don't remember you coming out and work and doing stuff.
Speaker 4: And you want to be part of the machine. I was.
Speaker 4: You know, you were a cock. I was part of
Speaker 4: the machine. They got rid of you, and that would
Speaker 4: have been and you knew that. But you know where
Speaker 4: I did. I was part of the crew, and you
Speaker 4: wanted to be part of it. Right now, you're just
Speaker 4: being fucking you want to be and you're jealous. And
Speaker 4: then you didn't get to do any of these things,
Speaker 4: and you're going to put on me there you think
Speaker 4: I'm fucking market any fuckers. I didn't give a shock.
Speaker 4: I got my own things I'm involved in. And he
Speaker 4: just looked to laugh, because yeah, I can see it
Speaker 4: all right, all right, you know. And we were back
Speaker 4: up there, and then I went somewhere else and the
Speaker 4: clash are sitting because I told you he's told on
Speaker 4: the line Donald word and saying, and he came and
Speaker 4: told me and I goo, okay, and he goes, what
Speaker 4: fuck Hapa, And I said, we'll talk about later. Actually
Speaker 4: I told Don whatever you can here some bit Twitter.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's how that part.
Speaker 6: So eventually the three of them, the mayor, a guy,
Speaker 6: a cop now Dendy cop named Jeff Walters studium. So
Speaker 6: one more, we're all indicted for crimes involving heroin and
Speaker 6: inside information to this gang that was dealing heroin in
Speaker 6: the community. So now the thing is is that you're
Speaker 6: still have other works to do. And what happens after
Speaker 6: this in terms of events of your life.
Speaker 4: Well, after I'd finished everything at the department and everybody
Speaker 4: gets start to get taken down, and then everybody's important
Speaker 4: the fingers at each other, you know, who the fuck
Speaker 4: did this? You did it? No, you did it and
Speaker 4: all that, and I finally just sent it down. I'm
Speaker 4: resigning for this ship because the fuck is think you did?
Speaker 4: I think nine different officers and all of us resigned
Speaker 4: because of it, and because everybody's accused of right now,
Speaker 4: you're basic at Luber and I'm like, you know, they
Speaker 4: have no clue who did what. They're just doing their assumption.
Speaker 4: So I loved, and you know it was just made
Speaker 4: and they would have figure out after the other couple up.
Speaker 4: I loved and somebody after me and then they asked
Speaker 4: me to go work at a casino to check on
Speaker 4: these guys. And the first time I checked on I
Speaker 4: went and became I hit you want new security, and
Speaker 4: I became friends with you know, the guys over They
Speaker 4: did me because I went and worked midnights and you'd
Speaker 4: have to secure if you had keys to everything. And
Speaker 4: I goes, these guys are he doesn't fractors, They're just
Speaker 4: having a good time. What the fuck do you want
Speaker 4: with these guys, Well, we just want to make sure
Speaker 4: you know, casinos are they're all involved with. I go,
Speaker 4: there ain't nobody in this thing, for any crew or
Speaker 4: anybody I could see in this I mean I go
Speaker 4: on to back, I would talk to guys and I
Speaker 4: never see anybody or even hear anybody going in there.
Speaker 4: And they were just we we think there is, but
Speaker 4: there never was. And we're going years and eventually somebody
Speaker 4: came in and they asked me to get information on
Speaker 4: the zone owner. And I went had key the work midnight,
Speaker 4: so I got the information. I took pictures of it
Speaker 4: and gave it to him and that's eventually something happened
Speaker 4: with him and I ended up basically just I always thought, hey,
Speaker 4: eventually maybe I could become working through them and doing
Speaker 4: an informant thing. And they just said, you know, thanks
Speaker 4: for everything, We're done by bye. Here here's the stipend
Speaker 4: we're coming coach. And I'm like, wait what. So I
Speaker 4: just stayed at the seeing it and worked there, and
Speaker 4: eventually I'm up there.
Speaker 6: Just before this or around this time, you get some
Speaker 6: disturbing news for you, Eddie and Tosio, the person you
Speaker 6: work for. Eddie is extradited from Portugal and was arrested.
Speaker 6: Tell us about hearing that news?
Speaker 4: Was that really sure that he got? And you know,
Speaker 4: the funny thing is, I remember when I was still
Speaker 4: working at the department, I got a call and I
Speaker 4: went to a pay phone at a gas station. It
Speaker 4: was him, and he's like, you know, I'm gonna be
Speaker 4: gone for i'mna be gone for a long time. I
Speaker 4: just take care of my my son and make sure
Speaker 4: he's doing all right, make sure he doesn't fall into
Speaker 4: this bullshit. So I eventually, you know, I did. I
Speaker 4: kept in touch with him, but eventually is where I
Speaker 4: gave the information that they're going to be ended getting
Speaker 4: nailed and he ended up dying in prison. And when
Speaker 4: I heard about that. I'm like, it was like somebody
Speaker 4: punched me in the gut that they you know, he
Speaker 4: got caught. I wasn't worried because I know he doesn't talk,
Speaker 4: so I wasn't worried about anything else going to happen.
Speaker 4: But it was my mentor is now getting caught, and
Speaker 4: now he ended up getting I want to say, like
Speaker 4: grison for to eat done. It was it was very
Speaker 4: like somebody, I said, somebody punched me gut, like I
Speaker 4: lost not one hundred percent. That's how I felt for
Speaker 4: a long time. My premission.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was hard, you say, right, Yeah, it was
Speaker 6: you talk about through this book. We we didn't get
Speaker 6: to talk about it, but the effect that you're having children,
Speaker 6: you and your wife, first wife Carrie, and then that
Speaker 6: not working out and dissolving, and and you're drinking, and
Speaker 6: your nightmares that you encountered and increasingly and then they're
Speaker 6: split up with your parents and then your father alluding
Speaker 6: to some secret with your mother. But let's get back
Speaker 6: to your work with the police force. You say it
Speaker 6: was winding down, and then what happens in terms of retribution.
Speaker 4: Well much bitts. He asked me to go somewhow, so
Speaker 4: there's nothing worry. Yeah, I felt good about putting these
Speaker 4: guys and getting them off the department and get them
Speaker 4: out order supposed to protecting it out a couple working
Speaker 4: with the gangs. And I'm not a big fan of them,
Speaker 4: of the gangs any time. And yeah, you know, I
Speaker 4: felt good about let produtional stories be. I just felt
Speaker 4: better for doing this. You know, at first, I thought, okay,
Speaker 4: you know, and that's where I got to drinking and
Speaker 4: the rose let and you know, not really, you know,
Speaker 4: I was adulting. I was an alcoholic for a while
Speaker 4: and kind of trying to hide everything. And the worst
Speaker 4: part is I was told you couldn't tell anybody, so
Speaker 4: I didn't tell her. Anyone I really ever found out
Speaker 4: was not and that was towards the end. And that's
Speaker 4: really a cause that keeping these demons inside, you know,
Speaker 4: between the demons I did as a child, and I'm
Speaker 4: also I didn't care. I didn't until a little while
Speaker 4: until drink and then started getting these nightmares and then,
Speaker 4: like I said, everything started rolling down. I had the
Speaker 4: kids and Garry and I eventually but you know, not
Speaker 4: realizing everything. You know, when when you meet somebody young
Speaker 4: that you know a couple, tell I meet, you know,
Speaker 4: Sabrina and I did meet. I guess you can said,
Speaker 4: the love of her life and who helps me and
Speaker 4: supports me and pushed me towards spiritually working with the
Speaker 4: run into the High Faith right now. Like I said,
Speaker 4: this whole entire, like the whole thing of writing the
Speaker 4: book was therapeutic. And Sam's like, we need to do this.
Speaker 4: You need to do this, Like Sam kind of found
Speaker 4: out later in the night thought and he said, you
Speaker 4: need to do this. No, brother, you need to. It's
Speaker 4: just going to help you. And it's brought out a lot,
Speaker 4: and I've had my cares. It's starting to get better.
Speaker 4: But overall, I do feel better inside and I've gotten
Speaker 4: something out and I felt I'm gonna be honest, I
Speaker 4: felt like I never did anything in life. I felt
Speaker 4: like I was a failure, but learning eventually, I don't
Speaker 4: say recently that the things I've done was help calling
Speaker 4: towards the community, towards people, and I'm still not comprehending
Speaker 4: that today, I guess you can say. But as far
Speaker 4: as retributes, it's more of a I felt better inside
Speaker 4: for doing what I did, and they got what they deserved.
Speaker 4: And that's how I looked at it, that Jesus.
Speaker 6: Has an opportunity to stop for a second for these messages.
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Speaker 6: What I meant in the retribution is that the name
Speaker 6: Dominic that had nicknamed you Sandwich many many years ago,
Speaker 6: that didn't trust you in this crew with Eddie now
Speaker 6: rears his ugly head according to you, and you get shot.
Speaker 6: Tell us about this event.
Speaker 4: It was all drinking or a couple of times, hole
Speaker 4: in the wall, and it was raining, and it was
Speaker 4: tooken cigarette and I was waiting up there. I saw
Speaker 4: going towards my arm and I heard this pop, and
Speaker 4: I just felt to described it. It didn't hurt, it
Speaker 4: just fall and I felt another one. I'm like what,
Speaker 4: And then I saw the glass and I clipped over
Speaker 4: my car and I was able to grab my nine
Speaker 4: out and on my other side of the cars, I
Speaker 4: can hear everything with somebody and I could just see feet.
Speaker 4: I just started lighting up and I just started shooting
Speaker 4: at feet and I saw somebody falling, just shooting, and
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, as I'm on my back or
Speaker 4: somebody comes up around the car and I just started
Speaker 4: and now I remember just start shooting them and they
Speaker 4: just disappearing up there. At this point, it got quiet
Speaker 4: and I just at there and there really not no pain.
Speaker 4: I'm just heat. I just felt burning heat. And I
Speaker 4: called back into my car and I took off like
Speaker 4: a bat on hell. And I ended up showing up
Speaker 4: at Don's house and the whole incident. He ended up
Speaker 4: calling an old friend, a couple of friends of the family,
Speaker 4: my family, Jack Obrock, and they came in and they
Speaker 4: said it wasn't as bad. A couple and they went
Speaker 4: through and he says, we're gonna do this. It's gonna hurt.
Speaker 4: And they did it there and it's garage and they
Speaker 4: took it out and they based the patched for help
Speaker 4: and gave the IVS and I didn't want to go
Speaker 4: to the hospital. I don want anybody know about it.
Speaker 4: I'm afraid, and I'm thinking, well, you know this by
Speaker 4: that's all I'm thinking. This is my original thinking. At first,
Speaker 4: I really sure what it was. It just and that
Speaker 4: eventually I found out through my contact it was I'm
Speaker 4: gonna going to trust me and he's in prison, and
Speaker 4: he put it he would have hit on me, I
Speaker 4: guess you could say. And the funny thing is is,
Speaker 4: but the period happened, it was a different department. They
Speaker 4: didn't have anything. It was like somebody cleaned up the
Speaker 4: whole thing, like it didn't happen, which I thought when
Speaker 4: I heard that, it made me say, it works. Now
Speaker 4: I'm feeling that I'm in Don's basement. What's going to
Speaker 4: fucking happen? So, I mean, I was gone for two weeks.
Speaker 4: My ex didn't even really wow. She made some phone
Speaker 4: calls and Don said, oh no, he's just doing this.
Speaker 4: He's got somebody working under cover. Okay, And you know,
Speaker 4: obly took a couple of weeks for me to really
Speaker 4: get to the point where, yeah, it took a long
Speaker 4: time to really start moving, but they didn't have anything
Speaker 4: where it was more of it was I really didn't
Speaker 4: have to go through therapy or anything like that. But
Speaker 4: it was a hard time for a while trying to
Speaker 4: hide everything. But we ended up somehow we did it.
Speaker 4: I'm being good. You know, his wife understood everything and
Speaker 4: that he's a very good person, and we ended up
Speaker 4: paying a fight. It was dominic, you know. I thought,
Speaker 4: you know, revengage is my thing to go. But I
Speaker 4: didn't go down that path because I knew he was
Speaker 4: in prison either a big gal. So I was just like,
Speaker 4: fuck it and I'll know. And after that to this day,
Speaker 4: I keep myself always have a either an icepick or
Speaker 4: a guy. I both use YOUTI twenty four seven. I
Speaker 4: don't trust much of anything. And it's a med make
Speaker 4: friends because of the incident. That's site. It's in psychology.
Speaker 4: You know, it does get to you.
Speaker 6: You're right about Agent Jackson meeting you. He sees you
Speaker 6: with a cane. He knows that you're recovering. You are
Speaker 6: recovering from being jot at and survived. He tells you
Speaker 6: about this three hundred dollars severance, you get about two
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty grand after the taxes, and you can
Speaker 6: get an all in one lump summer. You can get
Speaker 6: it in payments. But Carrie wants the money in one
Speaker 6: lump sum and she argues for that. But I think
Speaker 6: is not really quite clear for our audience, but I
Speaker 6: will try to make that clear.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: Is that you had met Carrie, you got involved with Carrie,
Speaker 6: and but at the time you didn't know of the
Speaker 6: involvement with the mayor who she called her uncle. So anyway,
Speaker 6: in this regard here, and it's not in your book,
Speaker 6: it's not so explained. So I'll ask you what happens
Speaker 6: with this money and how does Carrie cheat it, cheat
Speaker 6: the money from you? And where does that money go?
Speaker 4: You? Right, honestly, when when I was starting to do
Speaker 4: all this, and this is before I went to school,
Speaker 4: I met her at a party and after I came
Speaker 4: back and started working, I came back to the area.
Speaker 4: We kind of hooked back up and that's how that
Speaker 4: started with her. And as far as the money it came, man,
Speaker 4: I do want to be honest with you. It was
Speaker 4: gig cash. There's no nothing, And what happened to. It
Speaker 4: is very a strain at the time. She didn't know
Speaker 4: what I said. It was for an insurance thing when
Speaker 4: I got hurt. So she ended up basically giving it
Speaker 4: to her family. And that was the last straw. I
Speaker 4: did not like her family. I didn't like anybody in
Speaker 4: her family and did several brothers and sisters and gave
Speaker 4: it to her one of her sisters, and I's why
Speaker 4: I liked me. And she's like, oh, she needs that,
Speaker 4: Oh she doesn't need it, and I'm like, we're gonna go.
Speaker 4: She doesn't need to pay back. That was the last
Speaker 4: straw with me. That's why I ended up just leaving.
Speaker 4: That's what that was in at money, disappearing to that
Speaker 4: she gave it to her family.
Speaker 6: You're right about the change in your life, to change
Speaker 6: in your attitude, and obviously the work that you did
Speaker 6: was absolutely contrary to the work you did for Eddie
Speaker 6: when you were young and you were destined for But
Speaker 6: you have two sons and a couple of years apart.
Speaker 6: You write and then you get a call from your friend,
Speaker 6: the police officer, Donnie Cooper, and it's a just being called.
Speaker 6: Tell us about the call and who you have to
Speaker 6: talk to at the station. Right youngest was I was
Speaker 6: going at the time. I wasn't even in the state,
Speaker 6: and Don calls me.
Speaker 4: He said, you know what, they're about to jump on
Speaker 4: your son and go for what they think you saw
Speaker 4: him drugs out of the garage. I'm like, are you?
Speaker 4: And so I had to make some quick phone calls
Speaker 4: and I end up going up there and I say,
Speaker 4: you know what, don't go in because I have I'm
Speaker 4: the oldest is special needs. And he figur till I
Speaker 4: and he's not going to back up. He will go
Speaker 4: after you and got help you guys take him down.
Speaker 4: So they end up he just pretty leaves to go
Speaker 4: to get the dumb buck. That's all I said. I didn't.
Speaker 4: I just don't hit the house because of many other sons.
Speaker 4: And they did and it wasn't even him. They were elected.
Speaker 4: I was a buddy. And they end up arresting him
Speaker 4: and he got out of it because he wouldn't have anything.
Speaker 5: Out of him.
Speaker 4: And he brought him and showed him there's nothing in
Speaker 4: the garage, and they didn't at the time. He showed
Speaker 4: more honored and that was a good start of a
Speaker 4: He called there that they hit the house where my
Speaker 4: son was in there, my ass.
Speaker 6: You want your son not to be to go down
Speaker 6: the path that you had gone, not to become like
Speaker 6: you had, become a person in a bad situation like yourself,
Speaker 6: and end up possibly in prison. You didn't want that
Speaker 6: for your son. You wanted to get him to promise
Speaker 6: that he wouldn't be involved at all. Then you meet
Speaker 6: another woman named Sabrina. Your life changes, but more importantly
Speaker 6: those nightmares and that the haunting nightmares. You learn about
Speaker 6: the Bahai faith. You mentioned it, you talked about it.
Speaker 6: So tell us just briefly about who you meet and
Speaker 6: more importantly this religion that stops those nightmares and gives
Speaker 6: you a sense of how you could possibly get forgiveness
Speaker 6: for that past transgressions.
Speaker 4: I met Saprino, who we were working together for. I
Speaker 4: just saw something in her and who's kind of a
Speaker 4: bit and I kind of liked that, and we just
Speaker 4: started talking. We quick got together and she understood me
Speaker 4: right off the bat and took me for who I was. Now.
Speaker 4: She didn't know anything about me, didn't know that, and
Speaker 4: he took me not being either. I was just like
Speaker 4: curric you know, I'm not being the sharpest way in
Speaker 4: the drawer and and just for me, for me, and
Speaker 4: it just grew it and she always helped me. And
Speaker 4: then sam because of Behind and he's like, you got
Speaker 4: to read these books, and I'm like, get the fuck
Speaker 4: out of here. I looked for the other guy. I
Speaker 4: worked for the other guy. I don't even bring that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was very anti religious. I was very
Speaker 4: very as o God, if that that's all you mean?
Speaker 4: Shit all this? And then I started reading there I go,
Speaker 4: you know, I say it there one day and I
Speaker 4: started reading and I saw something, I thought something, and
Speaker 4: I thought, well, you know, and reading about the behind faith,
Speaker 4: I've always believed that men and women have always been equals.
Speaker 4: That's always been me. There's no man's you know, woman's
Speaker 4: sub survey to man or anything. I've never believed that.
Speaker 4: And that's in the behindas And I was sit there
Speaker 4: and Sammy goes, you know you were always behind, but
Speaker 4: you didn't know it. And number two is you can't
Speaker 4: be perfect, nobody can't you just be the best behy
Speaker 4: you can be. And everything that they do I do.
Speaker 4: I you can protect your family, but don't care what
Speaker 4: when I hear it, you know, don't swear. I still
Speaker 4: swear my construct drunk don't drink. I drink little out
Speaker 4: of that. Medications kind of prevent me from that.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: I believe in a behydrate. I believe in everything and
Speaker 4: all the whole time to bring up back me when
Speaker 4: she went through classes with me, even though she's not
Speaker 4: going to convert, she's staying what she is. She helped
Speaker 4: me along and follow me away and hates me for me.
Speaker 4: And after she found out about my asked when I
Speaker 4: talked to her about it, it didn't flick her for
Speaker 4: it didn't change your opinion of me. It didn't change
Speaker 4: anything on me. She says, you are where you are today,
Speaker 4: and that really got to me. You are what you
Speaker 4: are today, not what you were. You know yet that's
Speaker 4: that was history the better person and you happy and
Speaker 4: went to bed the high phase alcohol. I have a
Speaker 4: hard time retaining odd things still, but I agreed and
Speaker 4: read more every day and learn like to learn something
Speaker 4: new every day. I do four times a week classes
Speaker 4: with butt to the high phase, and I'm I think
Speaker 4: overall but better. I can never ever pay or do
Speaker 4: anything that can did what I did in the past.
Speaker 4: I have no way of getting that back. But when
Speaker 4: I do pass, I go to a different plane and
Speaker 4: it will start over. I'll have to pay for where
Speaker 4: I did if I start over, and I'll start over
Speaker 4: as a better person. And that's all I need. That's
Speaker 4: all I need to believe, is that I'm going to
Speaker 4: start off as a better person. I can never repay
Speaker 4: for what I've done and what I've been through and
Speaker 4: what I've done with people and other things. And I
Speaker 4: understand right now, I just got to go forward and
Speaker 4: being more spiritual and being a better person and being
Speaker 4: a better person to society.
Speaker 6: And so that's how you can reconcile. You say you've learned,
Speaker 6: how the you've learned about forgiveness, so that forgiveness extends
Speaker 6: to yourself. And that's how you can reconcile and move
Speaker 6: on and just be a better person each day and
Speaker 6: not have to feel the guilt or not be burdened
Speaker 6: by the guilt. I should say, as you move on
Speaker 6: in this new spiritual state of the high faith.
Speaker 4: Yes, I learn I still remember and know what I've done.
Speaker 4: I realize that I need to just move on. I
Speaker 4: don't I'll really be honest with you, it doesn't affect
Speaker 4: me or I've done. I don't have any regrets. I
Speaker 4: never felt for the endeavor meet up people, doing things people.
Speaker 4: I never felt any remorse for that, or be honest
Speaker 4: with people. But I thought, I know I did something
Speaker 4: that I should thinks I shouldn't have done, and I
Speaker 4: got to go forward. And every day I work hard
Speaker 4: and harder to put that aside. I'll never forget it,
Speaker 4: That's part of my burden, but right now I understand
Speaker 4: that I can move forward and be a better person
Speaker 4: towards community, towards the world that needs that needs help.
Speaker 4: That's how I look at it. You know, not everybody's spiritual. Well,
Speaker 4: if you learn to be spiritual, you can understand more
Speaker 4: of yourself, and understanding now feel whole. I know I
Speaker 4: was missing something and now I feel like I'm not
Speaker 4: missing anything anymore. I feel whole. I feel warmed to myself,
Speaker 4: which I never had, and that's me. But I think
Speaker 4: if the world starts feeling something like this, it would
Speaker 4: help everybody to understand that there is more to everything
Speaker 4: other than yourself. And that's why I feel Yes, sir.
Speaker 6: Part of this redemption is the good work that you
Speaker 6: were forced to do. In your mind, you had no choice,
Speaker 6: but you did do what they deemed good work in
Speaker 6: terms of getting close to people and informing on them
Speaker 6: and getting the information vital for convictions in you.
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I started out not being unreally disciplant, realizing
Speaker 4: I'm doing good being I like doing this. Do I
Speaker 4: care if something have and I know I didn't have
Speaker 4: anybody back there to to help me. No, I didn't care,
Speaker 4: but yes, I felt redemption as far as that. And
Speaker 4: like I said, Sam, you what it said. I just
Speaker 4: said to write the book. I felt like I've never
Speaker 4: done anything in my life. I feel I felt like
Speaker 4: a failure. But he said, let's do this therapy. You
Speaker 4: might look at yourself differently. And I'm still working on
Speaker 4: that today.
Speaker 6: Yes, it's a very very fascinating story. I want to
Speaker 6: thank you very much, Aiding Goodbore for coming on and
Speaker 6: talking about your book Conflicting Loyalties my life is a
Speaker 6: mob enforcer to eurn the Department of Justice informant. I
Speaker 6: want to thank you very much for this interview for
Speaker 6: people that might want to take another look. Is there
Speaker 6: you have a website and do you do any social media?
Speaker 6: How can they take a look.
Speaker 4: Further Conflicting Royalties. There's a Facebook account conflicting royalties. With
Speaker 4: the Facebook accounts all start aiding the bore Twitter. You
Speaker 4: want to ending a bore so that you will be
Speaker 4: able to look at all the different areas. You can
Speaker 4: purchase the book, sir.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. Aiding for Conflicting Loyalties My life
Speaker 6: as a mob enforcer turned Department of Justice informant. Thank
Speaker 6: you so much for this interview. And you have a
Speaker 6: great evening and good night.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Then you have a great time
Speaker 4: too soon.
Speaker 6: Thank you.