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Chum chumbacasino dot com. 21 00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.679 Process working at my low eighty plus terms the conditions 22 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:00.600 of plus second tails. 23 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.359 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 24 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.480 killers in true crime history. And the authors that have 25 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:21.840 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 26 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:25.560 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:29.840 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 28 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:42.640 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 29 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.959 A memoir of a double life as a mafia enforcer 30 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.400 and a Department of Justice informant taking down corrupt cops 31 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:56.239 and politicians. Aiden Gebor was still a teenager when Department 32 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:00.640 of Justice agents approached him with an ultimatum his life 33 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:05.760 in prison for racketeering, embezzlement, extortion, and conspiracy to commit 34 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:11.599 murder or become an undercover agent. Conflicting Loyalties is a sharp, 35 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:15.719 honest memoir in three parts, the bloody life of a 36 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:20.120 mob soldier from outside the family, the death defying paranoid 37 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:24.039 existence of an informant bringing down corrupt politicians and police 38 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:28.840 departments from the inside. An unexpectedly finding peace late in 39 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:33.719 life through the Bahai faith while coping with an als diagnosis. 40 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.039 Conflicting Loyalties is a visceral tale of a man who 41 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.800 gambles with his own life in order to save it, 42 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:45.360 dodging his fate while searching for an identity, a father, 43 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:48.360 and a family. The book that we're featuring this evening 44 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:52.080 is Conflicting Loyalties, My life as a mob enforcer turned 45 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:56.159 Department of Justice informant, with my special guest author, Aiden Gabor. 46 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.439 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 47 00:02:58.479 --> 00:02:59.879 this interview. Aiden Goeboor. 48 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.319 Thank you so much, sir, looking forward to it talking 49 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:04.879 all about Pready books. 50 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.800 Thank you so much. First off, for anybody that's listening 51 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:12.599 at all, your voice has been disguised doing some sort 52 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:16.280 of modulation to your voice. And also that the names 53 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.639 have been changed in this book, like you say, to 54 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.639 protect the guilty, So ninety nine percent of the names 55 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:26.000 that we will be naming are fictitious. To protect yourself 56 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:29.080 and other people as well. You say, let's talk about 57 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.919 initially as you do here. Take us back to when 58 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:36.280 you were sixteen years old, your prospects as an athlete, 59 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:39.120 where you were and what kind of town you were in, 60 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.879 New Jersey, and about the city to right that was 61 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.319 run by mobsters and street gangs, breeding grounds for criminals 62 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.479 and heroin flowed in and out of the ports. Tell 63 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.560 us about your early life, your background, your parents, and 64 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:59.560 how you became involved with mobsters and street gangs yourself. 65 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.400 And in my life started, I was typical teenager town 66 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.560 was a typical town and nowadays I was more of 67 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.960 an area the gangs where we didn't come into our 68 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:14.159 area because there was mortalia. They had a area like that. 69 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.800 We had our own about ourselves. It was it was 70 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:19.959 just a normal town like it is today where I 71 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.160 mean I played sports, We did things outside, you know, 72 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.079 we had activities. It started out where it was my 73 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.319 father was doing things and even though we were hungarian, 74 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:33.800 we wanted to tell you, but I'd still work with 75 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.079 the guys. And we would grow up and have like 76 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.360 family dinners and we had side with the kids and 77 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.560 being typical things. And in that type of environment, you 78 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.120 had to prove yourself, you know, either be a wool 79 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:46.959 or be a sheep is the way it is. Or 80 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:49.920 I got a lot of scuples, a lot of old voice. 81 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:53.120 I was able to hold my own. Really, the street 82 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:57.240 gangs came out, It wasn't that much with street games, 83 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.360 but as far as my younger life, I they went 84 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.160 to working just ride our bikes. He dropped off this 85 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:07.399 envelope to this person and then it don't look just 86 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.319 take it. You might use some bread and just bring 87 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:11.839 it back. We did it. I would ride my bike 88 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.160 and drop stuff off and nobody messed with us, and 89 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.959 we would you get it, return it, and then you 90 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.519 get money from home. We thought great, and we'd run 91 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:24.680 to see stores, the candy stores and pick up candy 92 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:27.000 and stuff. And it just worked out for their. As 93 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.399 I got older, I proved myself to I didn't get 94 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:33.399 in fights and not care about me hurting anybody, and 95 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.720 I defended myself with older boys. I can think I 96 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.759 was not as small for my age, so I was 97 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.720 be considered very big for my age. And just how 98 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:45.240 it was growing up there. 99 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.399 You talk about that you were a small guy, and 100 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:52.759 you also were exposed to violence, so you weren't shy 101 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.680 at all when that when that happened, and that occurred, 102 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.600 you didn't feel too much in terms of regret or 103 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:01.399 remorse at anything or anyone that you may have heard. 104 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:03.879 So you got the attention of this person that you 105 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.680 say that when you played football, this guy was in 106 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.120 the stands. He knew your father, you knew him, and 107 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:12.680 then so that's how you became involved. And then you 108 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.519 impressed these people with your greed election for violence or 109 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.680 being able to be not afraid to do some harm 110 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:22.639 to somebody. And you certainly had the skills, and you 111 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.839 had the size and the ability to intimidate. You say, 112 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.160 you talked about your development and you were a good 113 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:33.439 car thief. Tell us about your ascent into this crime family, 114 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:35.439 and tell us what it was really like. 115 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:39.279 Honestly, I started when I was eleven years old, like 116 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:41.079 I said, right in a bike, and I just moved 117 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.600 my way up. And yes, the violence was all around us. 118 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:46.959 And I mean the first time I saw somebody was 119 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:49.920 just getting getting the crap kicked out of them and 120 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.680 beating the shit out of them, and I just kind 121 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:54.920 of looked, and I was told that he goes, don't 122 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:58.240 worry about him, he's nobody. Kind of laughed about it, 123 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:00.920 and I walked away, you know that point. And then a 124 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:02.879 couple more times it was kind of happening and he'd 125 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:05.839 said they say no but nobody, and he's like, hey, 126 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:07.560 what do you get proves up? Do you think he 127 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:09.759 could do something like this? And I kind of laughed. 128 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:12.519 I said, cons better you know, it sucks to be here, 129 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.759 and better him than me, And the guy mouthed it 130 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.120 off a little bit and I didn't grab him, broad 131 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.000 him across the room and we're beating. I mean, I 132 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.519 just beat the living shit out them too, and they're like, 133 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.480 pull me up, don't kill them. You know, hey, you 134 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:27.319 know that's bad business. But at the point that'sn't see. 135 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.480 But I didn't know to be like this, and I'm like, okay, 136 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.600 I'm sorry. He goes, no, no, no, and it worked 137 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.439 their way up. He goes, I got some mother still 138 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.439 for you to do. And I would go around and 139 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.279 I was with I guess you'd call like a shoot 140 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.639 trainee and his name but to Nick and he picked 141 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.879 me over. But he was an ass and then I 142 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.639 really we never really got along and he was talking. 143 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.959 And the first thing I learned walking around looking at 144 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.120 is when you respect each other, it's where you don't 145 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.439 respect it at started fights and most people, if they 146 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.120 own something, you're just doing a point. And but the 147 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.519 abily bad for Munce to solve for much other crews. 148 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:05.439 When they ended up poaching in our area, that was 149 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.600 a problem and we would rectify that right away. But 150 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.560 growing up, when he would be Eddie would be in 151 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.199 the stands, and you know, he grew more positively. My 152 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.120 father was already ever around. He was working, and he 153 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:19.879 still did stuck with Eddie, but he did other things. 154 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.079 But Eddie's looked at me and he saw something and 155 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.360 he said, you know what, let's go. This kid doesn't 156 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:29.399 have any remorse anything. And you know, eventually on later 157 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:31.480 on in life, by West pro that I don't have 158 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:34.840 a empathy for the name way. I don't care. As 159 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:36.720 long as it's not family or friends. It was a 160 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:39.279 family or friend number, than we have a problem. Other 161 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.879 than that, I didn't care. To this day, my wife 162 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.320 can't understand. When we watched movies, somebody getting hurt and 163 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.240 to me, it's funny. I grew up with that sceneing that, 164 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:51.320 and I had no crolls about beating up anybody or 165 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.039 meeting the crap out of anybody, and growing up on that. 166 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.840 There was one incident I did put it in the book. 167 00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:58.759 And there's a lot of things I did not put 168 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:02.519 in the book. They said ninety exact putting the book 169 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:05.320 or also read be sitting there. We'd have like volumes 170 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.399 of pages. But I had one or a guy who's 171 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.679 going and he goes, hey, that's that we're eating and 172 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:16.360 he goes looking outside the wonder that, like eighteen twenty eight. 173 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.600 So I go running out and I'm beating that. I 174 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.879 started kicking the crap I was I grabbing one hand. 175 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.559 I told him get some dominantority. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, 176 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.200 And I'm still eating a sandwich. Yeah you damn it. 177 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.159 I'm just gonna call him sandwich. I said, Okay, I 178 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.519 didn't like the name, but that's what he states started 179 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:31.960 calling me. 180 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.679 Yes, this is a guy that he comes up as 181 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.840 a character later on. According to you, his name was Dominic, 182 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.559 So he didn't really he was envious or mistrusting of you. 183 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.000 But the guy that you were working for, Eddie, trusted you. 184 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.200 Took you under his wing, and you became his personal enforcer. 185 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.480 So you proved yourself and he trusted you, and you 186 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:55.879 were involved in his crew. And you were still very 187 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:00.240 very young. He graduated high school, and you had plans. 188 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.720 You were good in football. You were a good football player, 189 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:06.120 and you thought that might be your only shot at 190 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:08.960 college since you said you had problems in school, you 191 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.759 suffered from pessexia. And so tell us what happens with 192 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:16.200 this crew, what kinds of things these this crew was 193 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:19.240 involved with, and that you were involved with as a result, 194 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:22.399 tell us about some of the things, the crimes and 195 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.919 the things that were involved with his crew and what happens. 196 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:30.399 Climes you mostly that they were really was crosstitutes of rectory, 197 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.000 you know, a wall shark and then you would you 198 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.480 would bet on the you know, sports betting on it. 199 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.240 As far as drugs that he is like, he did 200 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.720 not know, we did not do. He caught you in 201 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.080 that you were dire straits. Is it lead that for 202 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.919 the gangs on them growing their neighborhoods. We're not going 203 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.159 to touch that. We have other things. Let's get cars. 204 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.919 So we zipped cars, and I mean I was good 205 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:52.720 at it. You just go in at back in the 206 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:55.159 day and you know, and you see it nice BMW 207 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:57.360 or something. You can run and you can pop up 208 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.639 the lock and with the reds and the screwgard and 209 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.360 you can go. And there's a couple of times. There's 210 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:06.519 one I took off and somebody said something and I 211 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.320 hit him a couple of times. Don't meet and see 212 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.799 it tuns a fucking thing, and he never heard anything. 213 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:13.120 Another time I was going and the cops came behind 214 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:14.679 me and I was able to elude on him and 215 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.159 I'd bring it in and drop off the cars and 216 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.039 they would take care of him. He got pretty good, 217 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:21.039 nice little stipe and every time he'd bring one in. 218 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.600 I didn't do too many of those. I only did 219 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:27.279 maybe five. I was more like, hey, this guy was money, 220 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:29.679 Go see what you can get it. Give him a 221 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:32.000 reason to think about what he owes that he needs 222 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:35.159 to pay on the point. And that was really what 223 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.720 I did. And course, now as far as Dominic, I 224 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.759 don't know if he envied me. He was really Eddie's 225 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:42.960 number two. I came in and I was a punk, 226 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.279 and I think he looked at it as me when 227 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.840 I was younger, as couples. I'd get in and I 228 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:50.519 you know, he would talk shit to me and I 229 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.200 just wouldn't tap it. I just walk away. And one 230 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:54.919 time he did he kind of hit me and I 231 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.039 took a pipe and I was good. I went nice 232 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.799 one and I hit him and then he looked at 233 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:02.240 me these eyes, and to this day I could never 234 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.840 forget these eyes. And he was going to go pull 235 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.519 on me, and that he said that's enough enough. Then, 236 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:09.399 you know, we had a little old guy in the 237 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.039 shop that was always in there, and he grabbed him 238 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:13.759 and said, you know what, don't don't you know we 239 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:15.519 want to mess with me, And he's like, no, sonos, 240 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:17.799 they're more scared of Getty. But I really didn't talk 241 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.240 about him in the book. It was more like a 242 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:25.000 I did. Here's more eleno Onie realized that I think 243 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.320 I was a good ally rather than against somebody. It 244 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:32.360 was one of those like never trusted me. And because 245 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.559 I was not Italian, I was from daring and I 246 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:37.639 don't know if he looked at it differently because of that, 247 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.600 but I knew I couldn't go other than inforce things. 248 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.759 And as far as everybody talks about with the murders 249 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.720 anything like that, it was bad business. You didn't do things. 250 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.200 If somebodyled your money and you did to them, what 251 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.440 are you going to get those whole thing? Most of 252 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.240 the things bad things happened, we hit amongst other crews 253 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:57.360 and ourselves. That was where more things were. And as 254 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.639 fur things that happened, we want rocket scientists. We had 255 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.600 what was available to and you know ours. It was 256 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.519 basically a garage, so whatever you'd have around the garage 257 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:10.480 is what we would use. And things you brought your 258 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.039 He brought guns to just keep people in check, and 259 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.440 then you'd use other optics to get your coin across, 260 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:21.360 as you would put it. That was almost every day 261 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.559 and not every other day thing growing up. And then 262 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.879 when I the FBI and all that started getting in 263 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.440 and everybody came up and he's like, we got to go. 264 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.320 I'm leaving and he's like, you you need to go. 265 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:36.679 And you've ever been arrested, you know in all this 266 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:39.279 you need to go to college and get yourself straight 267 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:41.279 and take care of what you need to take care of, 268 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:43.360 which is you and your family. And I'm going to 269 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:45.559 do what I have to do right And I guess, sir, 270 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.159 And I looked up to this guy, and a lot 271 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:51.639 of people are saying, you have somebody that's like, you know, 272 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:55.799 your mentor and mine happened to be a very violent person. 273 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.960 And you know, I realized that today, but back then 274 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.840 it was awesome being that because you had a lot 275 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:04.879 of respect. And to this day, I don't like being disrespected. 276 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.480 And I learned that growing up. I've gotten a lot 277 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.600 of fights being who I am in a short temperment. Basically, 278 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.919 I'm getting better at it. And he came to football 279 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:17.720 and all that night I did I went in on 280 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:22.360 a scholarship, and I, you know, they came in to anything, 281 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.200 gave me an ultimate And it's not that I didn't 282 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.360 go under I didn't do undercover. I was not undercovered. 283 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.240 I went in as an informant. Basically, if they say 284 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.639 is sending you in because they're gonna trust you. They know, 285 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:35.559 you know, I'm going to your town. You're going to 286 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.159 do this in your town. They're actually and you're gonna 287 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.159 be by yourself. So if something goes wrong, they conveyed 288 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:43.440 by to help you. So and he even said that 289 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.000 one look at me. He goes, give us said, he goes, 290 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.039 if something happens to you, and we'll be okay with it. 291 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:52.960 We don't know. Let you know that if something for 292 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.639 your choices are pretty much limited here. And I kind 293 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:58.000 of thought I had to think about it. I thought, 294 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.919 you know what, yeah, I'll do and that's helped start. 295 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.200 They're doing that when I did the first, you know, 296 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:04.799 I had to get on. They would give me a 297 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:06.600 little hope and I had gone so they wouldn't know. 298 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.159 And usually the dook would run with the FBI. But 299 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.120 when I was younger and they knew, I used to 300 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.080 see guys in the shop or around there there were 301 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:17.960 g men. Because one guy was sitting there, I go 302 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.200 and I see his bad. You're a g man and 303 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:21.840 he's like, yeah, and let me look at the bad. 304 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.799 So you know they knew that. They said, no, if 305 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.240 you see what, don't they're not with us. We're not 306 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:29.759 under dad nothing. No, they don't know anything about you. 307 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.639 This is this undercover. You're not. You're an informed that's all. 308 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.480 And they gave me money. I got paid. I got 309 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:37.000 paid well for it. You know. They said, party yourself 310 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:38.240 out of school, and you got to look like you 311 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.799 partied yourself out of school, and I would get you 312 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.519 the first time to get your grand and I went 313 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.919 and't partying them. I did what they did, I mean, 314 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.039 pissed my father off. Believe I didn't know them. I 315 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.600 was told I told my parents the deals off and 316 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:52.639 we're all going to jail. And you know, being eighteen, 317 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:54.320 I'm stupid. I believe them. 318 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.720 In the introduction, we talk about that they threatened you 319 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.399 with that the crimes you were associated with, this organized 320 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:07.600 crime crew that racketeering, embezzlement, extortion, and conspiracy to commit murder. 321 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.000 So they threatened you and you said you were eighteen. 322 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.000 You didn't know any better. You asked for a lawyer, 323 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.120 but they said we couldn't protect you. So this must 324 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.440 have been a difficult decision because you thought that they 325 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.559 would at least be asking you to turn evidence on 326 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.440 the people that trusted you and were took you in 327 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:26.480 as a family. 328 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.879 When they came and told me they did, they had 329 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:30.840 all kinds of stuck like they're that's what they were 330 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.120 telling me. You know you're gonna go to jail, You're 331 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.440 gonna just there's no way you could protect you. I 332 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.440 was young and not to this thing. I know that 333 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.519 there's nothing they could have proven that I did it. 334 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.480 They just showed me pictures and being dumb, I didn't know. 335 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:47.559 I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know. Eventually I figured 336 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.159 it out that no, there's no clucking way up to 337 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.759 the joke. There was no rest nemok empty in. They're suing. 338 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.039 But that's what they said, you're doing an afformance. And 339 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:57.879 I'm going to be much saying this to say, I 340 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.159 never informed on the crew anybody at that as. I 341 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:04.720 won't after bad police officers and politicians never once And 342 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:06.839 they asked, but what about this, and you know, I go, 343 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:08.880 I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You know, 344 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.920 those are the wrong answers. I'm not going to answer 345 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.359 because I never I would never portray those guys for 346 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.880 some day were my family and mentor growing up. As 347 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.839 far as seeing these doing this with the priests, I 348 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.400 saw them doing the bad things, and in my head 349 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.400 I used to think, Okay, I know I was an 350 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:29.920 ass and did bad things, but I knew that seeing 351 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.319 these guys supposed to be protecting, you know, you know, 352 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.240 to protect and serve, and they were doing bad things, 353 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.200 taking money, doing these bad things, and I thought to myself, 354 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.119 that's bad. That's worse than what you're not. You're going 355 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.519 against what you said. You shouldn't go it against you 356 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:47.839 to have a pride. And yes, I did what I 357 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:49.720 did when I was younger, but we knew what we 358 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.799 were doing. We weren't told to protect anybody. We protected 359 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.720 our area. I guess you can say our neighborhoods, but 360 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:01.000 we didn't. Police officers are different and Titians are different. 361 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.240 They were supposed to help people when you seem not 362 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:05.720 help be In my mind, I thought I was doing 363 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:06.279 the right thing. 364 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.759 So let's talk about how you become involved in being 365 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.160 a police informat of all things. 366 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.720 Yes, they wanted me to go and they said, we 367 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.799 have this. They would want to go check on this guy. 368 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.920 You might even know him. He's a police officer, but 369 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:25.240 supposedly he's committed murders. And he said, and further up 370 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:29.759 for a crew and I'm like grad and he's like, okay, 371 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.000 you gotta go go do this, and they want to 372 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.799 hear it. But you know, like I said, you get 373 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.160 get off of school. You're just going you got to 374 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:38.920 get on your own. We'll get you as far as 375 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.000 we can. But this that'spianiel. It's because nobody can know 376 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.680 what's going on. So I went tested. I got on 377 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.960 the department and they told me the guy's name is Terry, 378 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.000 and he's like, get friends with this guy. Become friends. 379 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.359 So I mean I took several months per year before 380 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:55.799 he really comes because he was more of a loaner. 381 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:58.480 Eventually he got in. Then we realized because I know 382 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.400 who you are, and I'm like, how do you do 383 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.079 because I've seen you before and I'm like in my 384 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:05.240 eye like oh yeah, yeah, I remember. I know flo 385 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:07.720 the guy was. He said, he seemed I had no clue, 386 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.319 and he said, well, would you be the cap boy? 387 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:13.759 Because really? He goes, do they know about what you did? 388 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.799 And I'm like, I don't really don't advertise it. Why 389 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.400 I why should I'm not bragging about it. I go 390 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.240 there was bullshit things like oh, no minute, that must 391 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.519 have been awesome working the cruise. So we just started 392 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.079 drinking and went out and we would go out and party. 393 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.920 We go to the to the restaurants and drink, and 394 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.400 then he'd bring his wife and she's very good looking, 395 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.079 and eventually we became good friends. And this was the 396 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.480 first one. And eventually he got to open up to me, 397 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.599 and he said, you know, run and I wanted to 398 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:46.559 get a crew so bad. I'm like okay, and he's like, 399 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.599 you know, I'm doing things that he goes, I've done 400 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:49.960 a couple of things. He goes, I don't think you 401 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.680