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out to the hot light. Welcome in action. Jackson Pain,
beat writer for the desertt News. What's up, Jackson?
Speaker 1: Then? How we doing? It's gonna be on living.
Speaker 2: The dream man, just talking ball, talking basketball, talking football.
It's it's a great day. It's a beautiful day. We
got plenty of moisture. We've been praying, we've been fast,
and we've got the moisture. And we got some ball
to talk about as well. Let's start off with some basketball,
shall we. Where are you at with these basketball team?
Jackson Pain? What's the ceiling and floor of this Cougar,
Cajor squad man.
Speaker 1: It's all how times have changed, right, Just the expectations
were so lofty and Yu was playing some great basketball
just a few weeks ago, and you know, they hit
a rough patch. Richie Saunders is out and I don't
want to say this guy is falling, but things definitely
feel a bit less bright than they once did. You know,
the ceiling of this team. It's tough to say, because
when you have Aja Debonsa in a must win game,
anything can happen. You know, He's just he's always going
to be the best player on the floor, no matter
who b WHYU is playing, and so By is always
gonna have a chance in that regard. But at the
same time, like, I don't think this is a Final
four team right now. The Elite eight even seems way
too far away. It's just I think if they make
the Sweet sixteen in their current form, I think that's
a huge success. And so yeah, Sweet sixteen feels like
the current ceiling. Obviously, things can change if if they
can get some help to maybe step up from the
bench in the absence of Richie Saunders, but Sweet sixteen
feels like the ceiling right now. I think, you know,
it's hard to think that they they'll lose in the
first round. All of their losses this year are really
quality losses, aside from probably the Oklahoma State. I know
that's still a Quad one loss, but b why you
should not have lost that game?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So I don't think if they're six seed or a
seven seed, I don't think they're going to lose to
a ten or eleven. So I think the floor is
a round of thirty two. Ceiling is probably Sweet sixteen.
But maybe a week from now, maybe they knock off
Iowa State and we feel a bit different. Maybe Tyler
Maruss or Alexei Kostich or Heilo Boskovich or somebody steps
up and turns into a flame thrower down the stretch
and gives you why you another scoring threat. But yeah,
if I were to answer right now, it feels like
Sweet sixteen is the ceiling, thirty two is the floor.
Speaker 2: It's fun. I was chatting with JT about like two philosophies,
two ways to approach you know, this BAU basketball team,
and he said, look, one thing you can do is
you can go all offensive, right, you know, start Tyler
Maruss and get as many minutes at election costick, give
them green lights, Hilo Boskovic and just get buckets as
many bucks as you can. Try to instill confidence in
those guys. You may have a dearth of you may
have some issues defensively. You already have issues defensively. He said,
that's one round. Or you can insert hidem Boop a
little bit more, give him more minutes, expand his role. Yeah,
he's not an offensive threat, but he rebounds and he
plays great defense, and he has great intensity while he's
on the floor, which will provide the best fruits, the
best return on investment. In your opinion, which way do
you lean going? Maybe more defensive minded, more rebounding minded,
and like just let you know your your your your
key offensive players AJ and Rob Wright do do their
work offensively in Canard. I think Cannard could take a
big step forward too. He's gonna have to play forty
minutes a game in order for Melia to win. Where
do you lean?
Speaker 1: I lean whichever way? Gets Adean Boop four minutes and
touched on it earlier. I'm a I'm a boot believer.
I broke down you know. I was in Tucson earlier
this week for the loss. B you what, you trotted
out seventeen unique lineups in the game. I mean they
were really just throwing everything at the wall. And the
lineup that stuck the longest they played nine minutes together
and had the most success was the starting five with
with Boop in instead of Boskovic, so it was rob
aj Kba Canard and then Boop. They were plus eleven
and nine minutes. They were the ones who had that
great stretch down the end that almost you know, got
Blu back into the game when they cut the lead
to five. Boop is just you know, he's he's like
a solar battery. He gets he makes things happen. Is hustle,
the non box score stuff that Richie was so great at,
the defense, the rebounding, getting transition stuff on offense. You
know you saw it at Arizona where you got the
steal and then got the bucket from it. I'm just
I just think he's a winning player and good things
happen when he's on the floor. I understand why Boskovic started.
It made sense just giving the matchup with Arizona size
and maybe trying to get something going from the perimeter early.
You know, he took those two early threes that I
wish maybe Rob had taken. I thought it was strange
that it took Rob twelve minutes to attempt to three.
Just you feel like if Aj is going to run
the offense, you would think Rob would play being playing
off the ball more would be spotting up for threes.
But that's a whole other discussion. But that's the thing.
Like I just when when Bosvitch took those two threes,
I was like, you know, maybe Boom should be in
set the tone defensively early, be trying to compete on
the glass, give Rob an Aj and Canard more of
those valuable touches from the outside, and then rely on
them for the shot making and then have Kaba and
even playing around the rim. So I'm all about Boop.
I think that he's I don't think they've unlocked a
death lineup because Byu, like like you said earlier, they
have defensive issues. It's just it's gonna be tough for
them to put anyone away down the stretch. But I
really think putting Boop in that starting five and giving
him more run going forward is By's best chance forward
at success.
Speaker 2: What's your theory on why b YU basketball has had
so many season ending injuries this year.
Speaker 1: I don't know, just you know, as that question Jackson.
Speaker 2: Have we asked that question to Ky, you know, being
like I'm never on the zooms, I'm never in front
of them, you know, So I don't know if it's
been asked. I don't know if it's been answered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't heard that question. I mean, I think
it's just one of those fluky things, right, Like you
know some teams, like it feels like I always bring
up the Commanders when I'm on your show, but I'm
gonna do it again. Jade and Daniel's rookie season, they
had like the best injury luck in the NFL. Last
year they had the worst injury luck. I think just
sometimes it comes in waves and sometimes it doesn't. You know,
It's just it's a weird thing. I think it's interesting
that the two return missionaries on the team and the
rotation in Dawson Baker and Richie Saunders both to ACLS.
I don't think missions have anything to do with that.
It's just, you know, your oldest two players toward their
ACL Like on paper, that probably does seem suspicious, but
at the same time, you know, having witnessed both injuries live,
I just they were both kind of fluky things, non contact.
It's just, you know, why are so many's tearing in
the in the NBA right now? You know why are
so many baseball pitchers having Tommy John Like, it's just injuries.
Just it's just a part of the game, right Like,
it's it's unfortunate that it's come to BYU because we'll
never get to see what this BYU team was at
full strength, it feels like and that that's a real shame.
And I think, you know, if if you're looking for
a silver lining, you can it's kind of it's it's
just a great what if with BYU basketball, right Like,
what if Brandon Davies doesn't get suspended? What if BYU
beats UCLA in that first round in twenty one? What
if the COVID Tournament doesn't get canceled? Uh? What if
you know, what if Alabama doesn't shoot the greatest three
point shooting night in the history of college basketball last year?
Speaker 2: What if?
Speaker 1: What if this team didn't have injuries?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Uh, So, you know, it's just it's it's a it's
a disappointment, but I don't think there's a nuclear facility
next to the Merritt Center, the way there is with
the Niners facility in San Francisco. But it's it's just
a bummer, man. I don't think there's any one specific reason.
It's just it's just fluky, fluky, weird sadness.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. It is fluky, It is weirdness. It
is sadness. Uh and uh, I'm here for all the
conspiracy theories. Anyone want to bring them to my uh,
to my attention, DM me at crital Benjamin Jackson. This uh,
this BA basketball team has to find a way to
win uh this uh towards the end of the season
and into the Big Twell tournament in the NCAA tournament.
Is there a certain level of like, how do you
think Cougar Nation's feeling about it right now? Like, uh,
how the donors are feeling about it right now? Did
they get their return on investment this season? Right are they?
Do you feel like it will deter these corporate sponsors,
these these big time donors from extending their hand out
uh with their their dollar dollar bills, y'all to Cougar Athletics,
Cougar basketball in particular, Do they feel like they got
what they were looking for with the allocation of resources
this year.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they're feeling, but I don't think
they should feel bad or regret any of the money spent,
because the money spent went a long way. Like AJ
is the best player in college basketball. He should be
the number one pick because they'll actually play basketball. And
like Darren Peterson, you know, it's a point in television
for everyone across the country when AJ plays, because he's
gonna score thirty five every night. Rob Wright has been fantastic.
Richie Saunders was fantastic until he got hurt. And I
think too like I think too often we collectively expect
immediate everything understanding. Just we expect immediate greatness from Kevin Young.
And you know, he took you all here to the Fund,
he took you out to the Sweet sixteen last year.
He's had some great recruiting success, but he's he's been
in the NBA for a while, Like this is year
two running a college program for him, Like we got
to give him a little bit of a learning curve,
Like he's gonna have some swings and misses in the
recruiting scene. You know, there's gonna be things that he
gets wrong, and that's fine, Like this is just if
you want to build a really strong program, you have
to go through growing pains. And I think they made
the Sweet sixteen last year and that was great, and
there were Final four aspirations this year, but it's really
hard to win in the tournament. Like there's a reason
why bu BYUS had two extremely long stretches without tournament wins.
I think from ninety it was either ninety two or
ninety three to twenty ten they went winless, and then
from twenty eleven to or twenty twelve to twenty twenty five,
Like that's two really long stretches without getting a single
tournament win. It is really hard to win in March.
And so I think you know, BYU, if they get
to the Sweet seat teen again, that's two Sweet sixteens
in two years. That's doubling BYU Sweet sixteen appearances in
the modern era. Like that's a great start to build
a great program. And so the injuries with this team
have been really unfortunate. It's something that I don't think
you can prevent. That's just the way it goes. Like
your injuries are gonna happen, and BYU right now doesn't
have the depth to compete. And you know they were built,
they were deep going into the season, But when Pickens
goes down and Baker goes down, and Richie goes down,
and you don't really get to see Kazlowski all this year,
and some of the other pieces aren't clicking so far,
Like that's just that's just how many sometimes like you're
not gonna make You're not gonna make all your shots.
And so I think, you know, BUYU can still salvage
the season and still go out on a high note
with a sweet sixteen or even further. But at the
same time, like we just it was never gonna be
a two year program juggernaut six right, Like if it
happened this year, great, But at the same time, it
was gonna take time to build what BYU really wants
to accomplish with Kevin Yong. And so I don't think
this should dissuade any donors or any pockets from being
opened for BYU in the future, because Kevin Young's proven
he can bring top talent to provo. Guys like AJ,
guys like Rob Wright, guys like Yegor I've done incredible things.
And look at Yegor right now, I mean walking into
the arena with a Book of Mormon talking about how
much he loved BYU and just such a great ambassador
for BYU. And you got someone like Aja taking mission
prep and Book of Mormon and talking to the broadcasters,
but how much he loves a Book of Mormon class
and he'll go forth to serve when he he's finished at BYU,
and he'll be an ambassador for the school. And so
it goes beyond dollars and cents and wins and losses,
the just the idea that these these these players who
have such a great influence worldwide, Yegor and Russia. Aj,
if he becomes the next big thing in the NBA,
these guys can can go and be ambassadors for BYU.
Like you can't put a dollar amount on that. And
so I mean, look, it's the I've gone on for
a while, but it's a bummer that BYU's injuries have
kind of derailed what should have been a Final four
team on paper. But at the same time, just the
talent that they brought in, Like it's not on ky,
It's not like no one should be dissuaded to spend
money and going forward.
Speaker 2: Can by fans uh critique and criticize maybe the roster construction.
Do you think it was it too top heavy in
your opinion? Or did by you just have bad luck
with season ending injuries. You look at guys like a Gallon, Hall, Tanner, Toolson,
Jake Wallen, your traditional like BYU. Remember they were all
at b YU at one point in their careers or
they were committed to BYU at one point in their careers.
And you can't always just hoard all the LDS talent,
right A. Colin Chandler's at Kentucky's doing nice things with
coach Mark Pope, et cetera. But you wonder it's like, Okay,
well how you allocating resources? Did we did? Did b
what you go too top heavy? Or or did they
did they? Did they roster construct the right way? Is
what I'm getting at here? Can you critique that?
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe they could have used another guard before
the season, But at the same time, Nate picking the
man like that's that was supposed to be your seventh man,
Dawson Baker supposed to be your sixth man. B YU
last year had some pretty good injury luck aside from
Jago or missing a stretch and kind of being off
for a little bit of the season. But it's just,
I mean, you can always expect maybe one or two
season ending injuries, but four is just an absurd amount, right,
Like you lose your your your veteran leader and your
your first team all big twelve talent. You lose your
sixth man who's another great veterans shot maker, you miss
a three and D guy off the bench, and like,
I don't know, man, it's just maybe Maruss and co
Stitch are maybe maybe that's maybe maybe those there was
better money to be spent elsewhere. But at the same time,
you know they could also go in a heater and
totally totally redeem themselves, right, I think too, Like you know,
at this, like I said, last year when the season ended,
obviously the cannon catchings thing, he was a super highly
sauttered recruit. He came in, he had moments, but by
the end of the year the shine was off and
he was kind of disengaged. Just it was pretty clear
he was going to move on, and when mag and
Stewart kind of stepped in his place. BYU season turned around,
and you know, it didn't work out for catchings at BUYU,
And I think my my perspective at that point was,
you know, that's a that was a learning experience for Ky, right,
like he had to he had to have a miss
of that degree recruiting in order to better figure out
his recruiting going forward. You know, Like I think I
thought that could be a positive experience for him. Maybe
I'm too optimistic, but I just thought, you know, he's
recruiting at the college level for the first time. Maybe
there were things that he overlooked with cannon catchings that
he can correct going forward. I don't know. And so
I think maybe this year, with the way that they
constructed the roster and the way that injuries took over,
maybe he goes, Okay, maybe we do need a change
of pace back to the basket type big every year.
We can't just go with two rib rollers in Kaba
and Ahmed. Maybe we need more guards because guard play
wins in March, and if you lose your two best
guards off the bench, that spells disaster. Right Like, so
I just think, yeah, maybe there are roster critiques to
be made. Injuries happened and BYU so far hasn't been
able to respond to the injuries. But at the same time, like,
I'm not trying to carry Kevin Young's water, but at
the same time, like these are learning experiences, and I
think if you want him to be the long term
solution and stick around approval for a while, he got
to give him some space to learn these things and
figure it out for himself, because the college game is
so different from the NBA game, and also just the
landscape of college supports is changing so rapidly and so drastically.
I mean just the fact I sound like an old
man right now, but like just the fact that we're
getting these running it back graphics from from true freshman.
It's like, yeah, you should be running it back right,
Like It's just it's such a bizarre world and having
to learn that on the fly is pretty pretty challenging,
I imagine. And so I think these are lessons to
be learned going forward for Kevin Young, and I think
he'll be all the better for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just wonder if, like I know, they had
like Tanner Twison come take a visit, right, and maybe
the role that they were pitching wasn't as robust the
minutes allocations, et cetera, that he was probably looking for.
I want to say, I want to say, Tanner Toolson
is getting maybe twenty minutes a game for TCU, if
I'm not mistaken, I think, you know, maybe he wouldn't
get twenty minutes a game, right he you know, I
think it's eighteen point just under twenty minutes, eighteen point six.
Dallan hall has although he's been a starter, but I
don't think he's necessarily been a star for the the
Who's right he has he's averaging twenty five point I
want to say, no, yeah, twenty five twenty eight minutes,
twenty eight minutes, almost thirty minutes a game. So I
mean he's getting minutes, that's for certain there for the
for the Cattalis, the who's rising out there for four
hundred ninety seven pounder out of the great state of
you tough one review a you Cougar. But you just wonder,
it's like, hey, did did we miss the mark on
our retention and our acquisitions? Did these guys, you know, Tanner, Dallen,
Jake Quaaleen, were they you know, was there a strong
pitch made to them to stay at BYU, to be
at BYU or did they like they're like, you know what,
it's just not going to work out and they just
had to part their separate ways. Any thoughts there about
some of the players that went elsewhere, transferred elsewhere and
the impact that they could have made on this team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about Dollen Hall a lot. I was
a big Dallen Hall fan. I just I thought he
was a really great just kind of facilitator and he
could shoot the ball a little, and I just it's
a bummer that he left because I thought maybe that
core going into Like I remember after the Sweet sixteen thinking, okay,
by you had a great core of Richie Saunders, Kavacida,
Dollen Hall, Dawson Baker, and then you add aj to
Bonson whoever else did they get in the portal, Like
that's a really good team next year, And when Dallen leaves,
it's like, Okay, well that's kind of a bummer. But
then you get Rob Right and it's like, okay, maybe
they upgrade, they have a more explosive option to the
point guard. But you know, Dollan his kind the kind
of change of pace he brought last year when when
he would come in off the bench with foos and
they would they would do they would kind of slow
the game down and go down low, and it was
just it was really refreshing and it put it gave
Bay you another a layer, another wrinkle that was really
helpful for them. I think Dallen Hall and this team
right now would be a really important player. I remember
a buddy of mine does radio in Virginia and he
interviewed Dallen and was just saying he knew He's like,
it's my senior year, I want to pick my own coach.
And that was kind of the rationale. And you know,
obviously Odom recruited him out of high school at Utah
State and then he goes to UVA and he needs
a veteran point guard to kind of jump start that program.
And it just it made sense, right, Like it made
sense for Yu to move on. It made sense for
down Hall to leave. But at the same time, it's
a bummer for him because it's a bummer for Yu
because another guard would really help this team right now.
But at the same time, I just think too, like
you know, maybe by you have to strike this right
balance between kind of your four year program, foundation players,
the LDS talent, the other guys who can come in
here and be kind of the way that Gonzaga does it,
where like they'll have Drew Timmy for four or five years,
but then they'll have a Chet Holmgren on one and done.
Like you have your one and done, your NBA type
guys who come and go, but you have your kind
of solid foundation of a four year LDS or local talent,
the Trevin Nell, the Richie Saunders, anybody else. It doesn't
have to be LDS kids too, but like you know,
you would think like, oh, a team with Dallen Hall
or Jake Qualeen Oranna Toolson like that, that would be
a great foundation to have. And so yeah, maybe this
is just like I said, like, maybe this is lessons
learned moving forward for roster construction. And you know, if
you're two for Ky, don't figure it out. These are
lessons to learn. And it's just a bummer that the
interviews happen.
Speaker 2: This year, no doubt about it, Jackson. Best way to
support you what you do, how you do it for
all of our listeners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, des ret news writing stuff there every day. Jackson
five pain on on Twitter and Instagram. Give me a
follow there and always the pleasure to hop on.
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure man. Thanks so much for hopping on.
Follow Jackson on Twitter, on the X and read all
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