WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.760 I think most of you guys already know my perspective 2 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:04.839 on the tariff issue. It's a very nuanced view. I'm 3 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:06.919 somewhere in between. I do lament the fact that we've 4 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.599 lost our industry, but I also understand that tariffs are taxes, 5 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.199 and I am, as a libertarian, opposed to taxes. However, 6 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.239 I also understand that the federal government needs revenue, and therefore, 7 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:19.120 if the federal government's going to exist, I would probably 8 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:21.519 prefer a tariff regime as opposed to an income tax regime. 9 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.519 So I'm nuanced to the point that I've upset everybody. 10 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.320 So what do I do in these type of situations. Well, 11 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.679 I invite on two people that can can battle it 12 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.119 out and help me decide. I got guys Swan, who's 13 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:37.840 more of the Austrian bent, and then we've got Alex Savetsky, 14 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.759 who is essentially a mercantilist, as best I can tell, 15 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:42.640 I'm just kidding, Uh maybe you are, I don't know, 16 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:45.000 but we're gonna We're gonna get to the bottom of it. 17 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:47.759 So yeah, opening salvo, gentlemen, Thank you for joining me. 18 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:48.960 Thanks. 19 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:51.640 I was gonna say A good way to have said 20 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:54.119 that is like You've pissed everyone off, so now you 21 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:56.960 want to like divert all of the hate and vitriol 22 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:59.880 to two other ideas to take it on. 23 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.000 Don't be mad at me, be mad at them. Yeah, so, 24 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:06.760 I mean, that's honestly my opinion. Though like I am, 25 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:10.200 I am very much like I have all of the 26 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.959 Austrian principles that still guide me. But then I also 27 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.840 have very much a pragmatic sense of like, well, I'm 28 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.359 not going to get sound money, you know, unless I 29 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:21.400 just migrate to bitcoin, which I kind of have. But 30 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.040 in terms of from like the economic fit, like the 31 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:28.599 fiscal policy of our nation, we're not going to get there. 32 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.719 So what do we do in the interim? And I 33 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.879 think that it's been very interesting to see this debate. 34 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:36.920 I think in some ways it's been very good to 35 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.680 have it happen because it's forced a lot of people 36 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.359 to think about how global trade works in a way 37 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:46.480 that I don't think people have and maybe ever anyways, 38 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.079 I'm just curious where your thoughts are. So either of 39 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.200 you want to start, I'd be happy to let you. 40 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:55.519 I'll just say mine probably is similar to yours. I 41 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.519 haven't listened to you talk about this issue specifically yet, 42 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.280 but I can guess by your your short little explanation 43 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:07.359 that it's probably pretty aligned with mine. My problem structurally, 44 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.400 what I think the real issue is is that you can't, 45 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.280 like I think there's a very specific reason why they 46 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:18.280 shift it all in nineteen ten nineteen twenty from tariffs 47 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.800 to income, social security and all of these things as 48 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.599 the main taxes, is that you cannot you cannot play 49 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.039 the tariff fighting game when you have a global reserve 50 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.960 currency and a central bank, like I think you have 51 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.520 structurally undermined your manufacturing and you're trying to It's like 52 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.599 it's like poisoning your liver and then taking a pharmaceutical 53 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.919 like you've your problem is that you poisoned your liver. 54 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:46.759 You're just trying to cover it up or get around 55 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:50.120 it with the pharmaceutical. The central bank is, are we 56 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.840 poisoned our liver and we have the global reserve currency, 57 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:56.599 and then the pharmaceutical is the tariffs are going to 58 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:00.719 fix it? And it's not like the problem is structural 59 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.520 to how our money works. And maybe maybe it can 60 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:07.759 like put up a barrier, but I think it just 61 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.000 means higher costs for everybody in the US and there's 62 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:16.520 still a premium on the dollar and foreign trade unless 63 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:18.479 we just stopped being the world was of our currency, 64 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:19.919 and there might be enough pressure to do that. 65 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:21.639 I don't know. At all times. 66 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:26.960 I think had Trump maintained his threatened tariff policy, there's 67 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.439 a distinct possibility that you would have seen such massive 68 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.759 inflationary pressure in the US as as our global trading 69 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:36.680 partners start to I mean, this was Trump's explicit goal. 70 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:41.800 He wanted to sell He wanted to equalize trade. He 71 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.400 wanted to have the same amount of trade from Vietnam 72 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.319 into America as America into Vietnam. 73 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:48.240 And he wanted to have more and more of. 74 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.680 Our US dollars, which I think it's sixty percent of 75 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.520 our fiat is circulating around the rest of the world. 76 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:57.639 And he wanted to bring that money home. Well, if 77 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:03.159 you bring that money home, don very very inflationary, very inflationary. 78 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:06.840 And I just I just don't know, like I don't know. 79 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.360 This is why I wanted to have Alex on because 80 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.360 I hope he can steal man how this would have 81 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.840 worked out, Because his best I can tell, he was running. 82 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.480 He was sprinting headlong into the trifin dilemma and he 83 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:19.120 didn't seem to have an answer as to how to 84 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.480 remedy that. So what are your thoughts? 85 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.040 All right, gentlemen? So I I think we all know 86 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.120 he had that money printing is an issue. I don't 87 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.160 think that's news to any of us, and I think 88 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:35.120 people listening to the show appreciate that as well. I 89 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.560 don't think, you know, guy, what you mentioned about, like 90 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.160 you know, we moved onto income text and this and 91 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:42.519 that sort of as a result of pure money printing. 92 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.439 I don't know if that's like exactly true. I think 93 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.560 these things are always a little bit more complex. You know, 94 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.519 there's you know, if a parasite can figure out a 95 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.959 way to take your money, you know, whether the money 96 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:53.360 printing or not. I think they're going to try and 97 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.319 figure out how to do that. And you know, I'm 98 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:02.279 fundamentally no fan of taxes and tariffs and all this 99 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.720 sort of stuff, and I get the economic argument for me, 100 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:08.720 Like I've been battling with this. I just I just 101 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:10.879 put a link to a sub stect that I just 102 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.160 literally published five minutes ago, which tries to take a 103 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:18.000 more nuanced view about this whole thing and what I 104 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:24.319 basically distilled it down to is this, Tariffs are kind 105 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:28.480 of like an economic handicap because you know, you just 106 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.680 increase the cost, and you know the person profiting from 107 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:35.279 the tariff is the whoever is charging the tariff, which 108 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.120 in this case is the federal government. To your point, Clinton, 109 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:44.560 it's like, would you rather have an internal taxation regime 110 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.360 or would you rather do a taxation regime where you 111 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.959 tax imports and therefore give your own people an advantage. 112 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:54.079 It's clear which one is better. So there's not I 113 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.000 don't think there's even an argument there. I don't think 114 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:01.319 I think it's fanciful to believe that the federal governments 115 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:03.439 going to disappear tomorrow, so if we have to sort 116 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:05.680 of choose the lesser of two evils, there's that sort 117 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:08.439 of evident. But the argument that I tried to make 118 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:13.600 in this essay was the economics come second here, that 119 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.480 this is no longer a matter of economics and materialism. 120 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:22.759 This is a matter of doing, like sacrificing economics for 121 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.240 the purpose of preserving culture, people, and nation. And I 122 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:28.920 had a bit of a sort of a beef with 123 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.680 Canoot Swamholm on on Twitter the other day, and not 124 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:34.399 a beef like we just sort of went back and forth, 125 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.519 and he's asked him, I said, what's a Nation's what's 126 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:38.040 a nation? And he said, oh, it's a made up 127 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.000 construct by a bunch of parasites. I want to tax you. 128 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.600 I was like, no, that's fucking stupid. You know, a nation, 129 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:47.120 nation is it's people. The word nation derives from natio, 130 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:52.240 which is the Latin for shared birth. If you if 131 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:54.879 you don't understand that concept, like it's it's sort of 132 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:57.639 very difficult to have a proper conversation about this. Which 133 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:03.360 the nation and the leader that is selected by the nation, 134 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.560 whether through monarchy or whether through democratic principles, republican, whatever 135 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:11.079 the case is, his duty is to his people first 136 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.920 and right now, I think you know, I mean, it's 137 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.959 been very clear from the beginning. You know, Trump was 138 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.079 all about make America great again, not make Wall Street 139 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:24.160 rich and prosperous. Right Like, there's a there's a disconnect here, 140 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.439 which I think is is very hard for some people 141 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.759 to get their heads around. Like you can maintain the 142 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:35.680 position that tariffs are not economically intelligent for anybody to do, 143 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.439 probably less so than America, because you know, America's got 144 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.680 some very interesting components to it. Like it's it's one 145 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.079 of the largest land masses in the world. It's the 146 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.279 largest by fucking far consumer market on the planet. Like, 147 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.959 I've sold many products with many businesses, and irrespective of 148 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.600 what I've sold, what businesses I've ever run, seventy percent 149 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.759 of all my sales or more have always come from 150 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:01.759 America and thirty percent from everybody else combined. So it's 151 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:03.920 not even like we're not even talking the same galaxies. 152 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.759 So America's got the land, it's got the population, it's 153 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:08.920 got the consumer base, and it's got all the fucking money. 154 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.279 Like once again, like that that's you know, everyone is 155 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:16.759 everyone is a poor in comparison to America. So you know, seriously, 156 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.279 everyone's a poor. That's like literally what they are, right, 157 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:23.160 So you you sort of you take that into account, Like, 158 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:27.000 you know, if Salvador tomorrow was to imply impose a 159 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.079 bunch of tariffs on all of their trade partners, like 160 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.360 they would literally handicap themselves because they don't have any 161 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:35.679 of those they don't hold the same hand. So anyway, 162 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:37.559 coming back to my point is that there is an 163 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.360 economic argument to be made, but there is also let 164 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.240 let's imagine, you know, you have this. Uh, you know 165 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:52.120 a neighborhood, and you know, the neighborhood has like stopped 166 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:55.240 producing anything internally because they just decided to buy everything 167 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:59.279 externally and they've just become essentially consumers. Someone on the 168 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.559 neighborhood decide, no, no, no, we should stop, we should invest. 169 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:05.960 We have the money, we have the economic wherewithal to 170 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:09.159 invest in ourselves for a little bit. So let's give 171 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:14.039 ourselves an advantage and slap attacks on everybody else and 172 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.840 let's rebuild our own productive base. And I think there's 173 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.559 an argument to be made here, which is America needs 174 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:26.639 to put its culture, it's ethnos, it's people, and it's 175 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.399 its own self before everybody else. And I think this 176 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:33.720 is an effective way to do it, even more so, 177 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:38.080 even more effective than Bitcoin or anything else at the moment, 178 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.440 because like bitcoin is just as much as it is 179 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.639 a stronger reserve currency superior to the US all this 180 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:44.840 sort of US dollar, all this sort of shit. Bitcoin 181 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:47.919 is way too young to become the global reserve currency today. 182 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:50.679 But bitcoin still needs a decade or two of maturity. 183 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.840 It's not going to happen. This is a way of, 184 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.559 I don't know, slowing down the globalist machine. You know, 185 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:01.519 people will make arguments about, oh, look at the supply chain, 186 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:03.440 blah blah blah. You know, you can't make a fucking 187 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.840 toaster in America, this and that. Like, when I hear 188 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.000 all of that, that actually tells me that that's a 189 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:08.960 fucking problem. 190 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.879 The fact that I was about to say, you're just 191 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.159 recognizing that the one hundred percent on that agreement is that 192 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.000 every time I hear somebody make that argument, I'd be like, 193 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.919 do you not realize that that means that, regardless of 194 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.879 your take on tariffs, something should be done, because that's 195 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.840 a huge issue, you know, a hugely terrible, terrible thing 196 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.399 that you've just explained. And the idea is that tariff's 197 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.120 whether you believe that, believe it work or not, is 198 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:36.279 to try to correct that. You're just you're just basically 199 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.360 showing me how bad the problem is. Not making an 200 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.279 argument for against terrorifts in my opinion. 201 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.879 But so, you know, we've got this kind of like 202 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.679 fake thin globalist economy at the moment, which has come 203 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.600 about as a result of I think excessive free marketism 204 00:10:54.919 --> 00:11:00.600 at the cost of social national cohesion. Right, Like we've 205 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.279 sort of it's almost it's funny, it's got a relationship 206 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.919 to the communist sort of ideal is that you can 207 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:10.720 just imply that everybody is an economic unit. And I've 208 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:12.600 sort of come to like, I don't know, scratch my 209 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:14.639 head with the Austrian economic stuff here a little bit 210 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.720 is that not like, not all cultures are the same, 211 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:20.559 not all people are the same, not all norms are 212 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.200 the same, not like, there is such a difference here 213 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:28.039 that if we just look at the praxeological spreadsheet version 214 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.559 of people, which is funny enough for communists do we 215 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.399 might think that just making all global trade free and 216 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:35.799 all this sort of stuff is a good idea. But 217 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.679 what you end up doing is you end up, i 218 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.519 don't know, like turning the world into one big blob 219 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.840 of gray gu and Starbucks, right like it just it 220 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.360 turns everything into sameness. And I don't think that's I 221 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:49.279 don't think that's a good thing. 222 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:55.080 I think I would say, we would I would check 223 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:59.360 that in the concept that it's like I actually agree 224 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.320 with your entire reasoning there, but that it's a sense 225 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:05.279 of free marketism that's being unless you just mean it 226 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.159 kind of in like the mental like people think that 227 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:07.840 that's what it is. 228 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.399 When we're opening. 229 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:12.120 Up trade networks and all of this stuff, and that 230 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.759 everybody just becomes like the same gou Is. I would 231 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.279 argue that is actually again going back to the structure 232 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.799 of our money. It's it's it's an issue with the 233 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:26.759 dollar economy and the outflows of wealth from a central 234 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:33.080 location that like we're becoming all American guized from a 235 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.039 global perspective. So I do agree, But I think that 236 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:42.720 a a free market actually means more walls, more like 237 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:47.360 cultures that actually stick to their culture, and and where 238 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.919 you have communities that are strictly their communities. The scale 239 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.399 of these things just separate and divide into a thousand 240 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:56.120 rather than one hundred. 241 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:57.720 You know, I think I think it. 242 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.600 I think it means more explostic competition and more people 243 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.159 literally saying, no, this is how we do things here, 244 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.360 this is our culture, and and you know, we're literally 245 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.519 gonna put up a fence around our neighborhood and and 246 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:11.480 you know you're not allowed in. Like, if people have 247 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.080 the choice to segregate, I think they will people like 248 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.200 people who think and talk like them. That's not an 249 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.240 evil thing, that's like this common sense. Even the people 250 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.679 who say it's evil will do the exact same thing. 251 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.360 They just pretend that they're better than that, and so 252 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.159 they think that the assumption of their conversation means that 253 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:35.519 they don't do it, when every single time it comes 254 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.120 up in the context is because they are doing it 255 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:38.080 worse than everybody else. 256 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.279 Like let me, let me, let me prove this out, 257 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.200 because you said you think that they'll do that. 258 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.639 No, no, no, they do do it all the day. They 259 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.919 do exactly Martha's Martha's Vineyard. 260 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.080 If you these are some of the most you know, 261 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.879 pro immigration voters in the in the country, maybe in 262 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.799 the history of America. If you go to fucking Martha's Vineyard, 263 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.639 don't expect to see a bunch of you know, Mexicans 264 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.840 and Haitians and shit like that. Like, that's not what 265 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.600 it is. So this is this is a lie. And 266 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.879 I just want to fire back a little bit against 267 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:07.840 what you were saying, Alex, is that like what you're 268 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.840 describing as egalitarianism. And I think that you know, all 269 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.559 of the libertarians that I run with are not a galantarian. 270 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.480 They fight back against that instinct very heavily. I think 271 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.759 what you're really describing is the left right divide within 272 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:23.080 libertarianism that there are left libertarians that believe in full 273 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.879 open borders and the states of fiction and it doesn't matter. 274 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.440 And then there's the right libertarians that say, no, like 275 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.200 property rights still matter, even though yes, the state is 276 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.600 a fiction, but the state does own that land, and 277 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.440 therefore you have to treat it with the same respect 278 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:37.960 of the voters as if they are kind of a 279 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.080 proxy for the ownership of that land, and therefore they 280 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.039 do get to dictate who's able to cross that land, 281 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.519 you know. So, like, I think that that's really the 282 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:50.799 divide you're describing it, and it's it's frustrating because I 283 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.039 am constantly on the defensive against these accusations of, you know, 284 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:57.120 being open borders, despite the fact that I'm not, and 285 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.480 I've you know, made very adamant claims to the contrary 286 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.399 over the past couple of years. Because I also recognize 287 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.279 that even if you do believe the states of fiction, 288 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.279 this immigration crisis is a product of the state that 289 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.639 you have been robbed to fund it through the NGO 290 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.799 networks to the tune of billions of dollars a year, 291 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:15.320 not to mention the fact that it's the United Nations, 292 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.600 one of the biggest globalist enterprises in the history of 293 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.799 the world. That's responsible for funding and literally orchestrating the 294 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.120 invasion from the third world to the first world, not 295 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.200 just in America but also in the UK and all 296 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:32.039 throughout Europe, probably Australia too. It's like this, this is 297 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:36.120 a globalist plot using your money, extracting against your will, 298 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.519 and then flooding you with you know, foreign invaders. There 299 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:44.000 is just no libertarian argument for that, none whatsoever. Sorry, 300 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.039 that was just a crazy rant, but I just wanted 301 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:47.240 to make all that point so. 302 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.960 Very true, very true. I think. I mean the I 303 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:56.879 think the flooding does also go beyond just you know, 304 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.240 sort of third world people in labor and biomass. It's 305 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:05.440 also like third world pitty fucking plastic products and you 306 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.320 know consumerism, right, And I think this is this is 307 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:12.039 a you know, we can talk about like the ears 308 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:13.720 and the ord and all this kind of stuff. But 309 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.159 to sort of tie it back to guys earlier thing, 310 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:22.879 it's there were mistakes made over the last hundred years 311 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.159 with not not only around like money printing and you know, 312 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:31.519 just sort of opening up borders economically and you know, 313 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.159 physically speaking and all this sort of stuff. But you know, 314 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:37.320 it sort of brought us to the point where America's 315 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.320 you know, kind of like hollowed out its industrial base 316 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.600 and its productive base, like it's it's excel like it's 317 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:49.159 almost like some blend of a like a degenerate or 318 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.679 actually what I should say is like a consumerist fucking 319 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.679 heroin junkie like who just can't get enough of buying 320 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:59.320 shit that they don't need, mixed with a degenerate gambler 321 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.320 who has to trade everything and like bet on everything. Right, 322 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.039 So you know, then that's why like these days, like 323 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:09.000 everything is financialized, so you kind of like when you financialize, 324 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.559 and this is the obviously money printing has a big 325 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.920 role to play here, is that you print money. Everyone 326 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.440 uses the American dollars the reserve currency, you know, they 327 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:21.160 you know, you get these deficits, you get all this 328 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.640 sort of shit, and you know, America sort of becomes 329 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.160 the beneficiary of that in the short term, but the 330 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.759 long term it sort of hollows itself out. And lest 331 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:37.559 that be sort of like reversed in some capacity, which 332 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.599 at the moment, honestly I look at it, I think 333 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.400 terifs are a fucking great way to do that. I 334 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:46.200 don't see actually a more powerful tool right now to 335 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.920 like just hit right at the heart of this excessive 336 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.559 consumer's behavior. Because when I when I was speaking to Knute, 337 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:53.960 like I challenged him and said, okay, so what's the 338 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.519 worst case that happens here in this character is like, eah, 339 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.839 everything gets more expensive. I'm like, okay, so what does 340 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.119 that mean. It's like, well, you know, people are gonna 341 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:06.799 pay more for the stuff that they buy from overseas. 342 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.559 I'm like, okay, so people become less consumers. And see, hoah, 343 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:13.039 that's a bad thing. Ninety percent of the shit that 344 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:15.599 people are buying in America is fucking useless anyway. You 345 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.000 know the the they have enough energy, they have enough 346 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.920 food locally, maybe you know that they also. 347 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.400 I was about to say, I want to head off. 348 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:25.920 I can already hear somebody saying that you can't eat 349 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.519 an iPad like you're just like you're just saying everybody 350 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.480 should be poor. And I but I agree with your art. 351 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.920 I agree with actually the logic that you're playing here, 352 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.039 because we're not gonna have a problem with food. 353 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.640 Foods that are gonna be we can grow. 354 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:40.799 We have the bread basket of America, we have better 355 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.359 farmland than anybody in the world. Basically, like food will 356 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:46.759 not be the problem. It will be the cheap crap 357 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:50.480 that's easy to ship from overseas and from China. Like 358 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.359 it's just a bunch of it is literally just a 359 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.200 bunch of like, Oh, we have too much money, and 360 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.079 we're the world reserve currency, so we have so there 361 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:05.759 are foreign premiums basically on the dollar, and so we 362 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:09.680 can just buy all this cheap crap. Every time I 363 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.480 need something to just pop up on Amazon, just just 364 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:15.279 order it here the next day. 365 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:17.599 Today's episode Liberally Lockdown is once again brought to you 366 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.920 by crowd Health. Health insurance is confusing, it's expensive, it's frustrating, 367 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.960 it's a nightmare. But there is a better way. 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This is an interesting argument, though, 385 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.680 and I'd like to actually basically take it from Alex 386 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.880 and ask you it directly, guy, because basically what he's 387 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:28.559 describing is forced austerity, and like libertarians broadly oppose force, 388 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.759 so like we broadly opposed this this entire framework. But 389 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.880 I do agree toy, yeah, but we do agree with 390 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:39.720 all yeah exactly. So, so like, how do you have 391 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:41.519 a better option? He said, I can't think of a 392 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.839 better option, can you? And I think both of us 393 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.240 would instantly argue, well, you probably have to go back 394 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:47.480 to sound money and the like. 395 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:48.880 We could listen to things. 396 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.119 No going to the idea of like we've poisoned our 397 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:54.720 liver and we're taking a pharmaceutical. Is that like, well, 398 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.799 whatever problem we're living with, it's probably better to cover 399 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.160 up the symptom. But the idea is fix the liver. 400 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.039 But that means in the FED. And if we're not 401 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.319