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<v Speaker 1>Hi, were you just surfing around the internet looking for

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<v Speaker 1>something interesting to watch? I'm sorry you got us the nonprofits,

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<v Speaker 1>but we do have a really funny article we want

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss today, and the great Eli's Black is going

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<v Speaker 1>to lead us into it. So tell us, Eli, what

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<v Speaker 1>you got for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this article is less of an article and more

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<v Speaker 2>of like a PowerPoint presentation of ten things the author

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<v Speaker 2>just doesn't understand. James Dolan makes several obviously false claims

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<v Speaker 2>throughout his little book report here, such as sentimentality is

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<v Speaker 2>far better explained by spirituality, and that science can't explain

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<v Speaker 2>why humans share moral values. And I could go on,

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<v Speaker 2>but it would take more time to explain all of

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<v Speaker 2>the bad ideas that he has than it takes to

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<v Speaker 2>Terry took him apart. This story is from Savvy Dime

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<v Speaker 2>by James Dormant on August nineteenth, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty much some of it all over there. There are

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<v Speaker 1>like ten segments here. What was the name of the

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<v Speaker 1>article again? I got to remember it's ten mysteries that

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<v Speaker 1>ten things sciences can't explain and attribute to God, And

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, you know, that's a really misleading title in

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<v Speaker 1>and of itself. Because I did not see any one

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<v Speaker 1>scientist mentioned throughout this article contributing any of this bullshit

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<v Speaker 1>to God. So John hunted, what did you think?

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<v Speaker 3>What was your oh man, of this craziness?

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<v Speaker 4>It was pretty stupid, actually, I mean, I'm kind of

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit of a science nerd, but this was

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<v Speaker 4>pretty hilarious. I recommend it for a late night I

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<v Speaker 4>need to laugh. The day was really hard kind of reading.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, either that or you know, you can watch

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<v Speaker 4>Saturday Night Live or something. But I just think that

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's really hilarious. And I'm going to go through

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<v Speaker 4>just the first few of them here and see if

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<v Speaker 4>I will attempt to be regimated and in my treatment

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<v Speaker 4>of this statement. So let's see how it goes. I'm

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<v Speaker 4>not hopeful the origin of the universe. Science can't explain

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<v Speaker 4>the origin of the euro Versa. We know pretty much

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<v Speaker 4>all we can ever know about the up to a

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<v Speaker 4>plank time or two after the inflation started, which means

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<v Speaker 4>that it was before there was pretty much time. So

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<v Speaker 4>since you can't test, examine, or even really prove anything

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<v Speaker 4>that is outside of time and space, time, there's nothing

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<v Speaker 4>to prove. It's a ridiculous proposition and so it's not

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<v Speaker 4>that we don't know what happened before, because we can't,

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<v Speaker 4>but we do know what happened all the way to

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<v Speaker 4>a couple billions of a second afterwards, so and how

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<v Speaker 4>it evolved from that. So I'm just saying that that's

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I suggest explanations. I'm not a cosmologist, so

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<v Speaker 4>I expect I suggest that you read explanations by cosmologists

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<v Speaker 4>or Sean Carroll, or not the biologist Sean Carroll, but

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<v Speaker 4>Sean Carol. The physicist Stephen Hawking actually has a couple

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<v Speaker 4>of books out that aren't bad. Carl Sagan, perhaps Neil

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<v Speaker 4>de grasse Tyson. You know, there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>people who are really good at this. However, you can

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<v Speaker 4>also watch podcasts that will teach you an awful lot

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<v Speaker 4>about it, you know. So you know, I can recommend some.

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<v Speaker 4>If you want to email me, I'll send you my

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<v Speaker 4>favorite list. So anybody else have comments on this one?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I thought it was.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they don't never, they don't ever actually talk

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<v Speaker 1>about any of the science in it, you know, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>science can't explain your origin in the universe, and yet

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<v Speaker 1>we have like twenty different explanations for it. And their explanation,

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<v Speaker 1>God did it. I mean, go ahead and I prove

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<v Speaker 1>that one, you know, because we can't prove plank time say,

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<v Speaker 1>but they are, but they're in this Well, God did it,

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<v Speaker 1>So will prove that to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>It always seems like these people are in the same

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<v Speaker 1>place we are, but they just don't even realize it.

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<v Speaker 1>So anybody else want to talk about that?

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<v Speaker 4>You know?

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<v Speaker 3>One thing that I wanted to point out as one

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<v Speaker 3>of the ones that they pointed out was the meaning

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<v Speaker 3>of life? How science can't explain that? And I thought, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, And the truth is is that when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes down to it, I love that question because it

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<v Speaker 3>gives me an opportunity to remind people that, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>so you have a definition that you think you got

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<v Speaker 3>from a book that God told you of what life means,

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<v Speaker 3>and you're trying to muddle through this and you think

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<v Speaker 3>that these pre applied values mean something. Well, for me,

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<v Speaker 3>getting out of religion and recognizing that it wasn't true

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<v Speaker 3>allowed me to throw away that really terrible manual that's

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<v Speaker 3>beaten into you potentially as a child, and to be

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<v Speaker 3>able to apply your own values. And so rather than

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<v Speaker 3>this is a negative, yes, it's great. I don't have

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<v Speaker 3>to listen to what some books says everything should be

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<v Speaker 3>because I can apply those myself to the life around me.

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<v Speaker 3>So when I look at this, I'm like, Yeah, what

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<v Speaker 3>you're talking about is a win. No, I don't have

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<v Speaker 3>a universal price code that everything applies to everyone, But

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<v Speaker 3>that's a freedom that's not being bondage. Being bondage is

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<v Speaker 3>being tied into a book that tells you what you

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<v Speaker 3>have to think. And one other one I found very

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<v Speaker 3>interesting is the human connection one. You know, they talked

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<v Speaker 3>about it, and what they're talking about very poorly, is

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<v Speaker 3>essentially empathy and altruistic behavior. You know, we see this

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<v Speaker 3>type of behavior in many animals, you know, rats. We

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<v Speaker 3>even have rats demonstrating putting themselves at risk to help

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<v Speaker 3>other rats in danger. So this is not something exclusive

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<v Speaker 3>and this is not something just exclusive the primates. This

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<v Speaker 3>is something we find throughout the animal kingdom. So to

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<v Speaker 3>treat this as if this is a human connection, no,

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<v Speaker 3>this is a social connection that they're talking.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can prove why people are nice, man, I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>it must be gone, you know, and.

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<v Speaker 4>We've got actual tons of biological evidence about why that developed.

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, but it's it's way too long and

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<v Speaker 4>involved a discussion to get into in this show at

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<v Speaker 4>the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I don't. I think I'd rather talk about

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<v Speaker 1>how this how this article is representing science, rather than

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<v Speaker 1>try to refute some of the idiocy within it. And like,

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<v Speaker 1>like half of the subjects that they met they touched

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<v Speaker 1>on that science can't answer are philosophical ones. There are

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<v Speaker 1>not anything science could even do experiments on, like like

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<v Speaker 1>the meaning of life, miracles was one of them. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>first you got to prove miracles actually happened before we

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<v Speaker 1>can start decide whether they're real or not, because we

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<v Speaker 1>haven't proved the miracle yet. So I mean, it was

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<v Speaker 1>just like this whole list of things that it was

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<v Speaker 1>obviously a slanted article from the beginning, and I thought

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<v Speaker 1>that what it was doing badly was representing science in

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<v Speaker 1>a very very bad light. What do you think about that,

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<v Speaker 1>do you? Elie?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I was about to give him some credit because

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<v Speaker 2>he does say, and this is the slide called when

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<v Speaker 2>science meets faith. He does say science is fundamentally the

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<v Speaker 2>pursuit of answers just because science cannot explain something yet.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is where he starts to go off the rails.

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<v Speaker 2>That doesn't mean that scientists relent and accept something as

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<v Speaker 2>inexplicable as an explicable. Now, that is true, but he

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<v Speaker 2>goes on to.

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<v Speaker 1>The next sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, by the time, by the same token, the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that science cannot explain something cannot be taken or no, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>can be taken as proof that the explanation lies beyond

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<v Speaker 2>the realm of science and exists in the spiritual And

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<v Speaker 2>that is bullshit, because that's not proof of anything other

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<v Speaker 2>than we don't have the answer yet. Not having the

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<v Speaker 2>answer is proof that we don't have the answer.

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<v Speaker 5>And that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's really just evidence that we don't have the answer.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not even proof if you want to get technical

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<v Speaker 2>about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I want me give an example of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right in seventeen forty six, you couldn't say there wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>there had to be a God because we hadn't invented

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<v Speaker 1>light yet Man made light. And that's exactly what this

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<v Speaker 1>is saying, Right, science hasn't done something yet, so obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>right God.

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<v Speaker 5>So that's proof that it can't. Right, that is what

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<v Speaker 5>he says.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the other one, and as you mentioned, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these are philosophical questions, not scientific ones. And

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<v Speaker 2>we did talk about like human connection and apathy, and

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<v Speaker 2>one of them was morality, and that's really not even

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<v Speaker 2>all that long of an explanation to get into. We

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<v Speaker 2>learned that if we cooperate with other people, we have

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<v Speaker 2>a better chance of surviving, and if we act like

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<v Speaker 2>a dick, people don't want to cooperate with us, and

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have as good a chance of surviving. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what social animals are. And we don't just see morality

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<v Speaker 2>in humans like you said earlier, Infidel, and.

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<v Speaker 5>Not just in rats.

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<v Speaker 2>Ants that get infected with like a disease or a

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<v Speaker 2>poison or something that will spread to the other rest

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<v Speaker 2>of the colonies, they will volunteer themselves for euth in

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<v Speaker 2>asia so they don't infect the rest of the colony.

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<v Speaker 2>That's moral behavior and insects or I don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>ants counts insects, I'm pretty sure, but yeah, so some

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<v Speaker 2>of the some some bugs surprise me sometimes. But the

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<v Speaker 2>point being these there are perfectly logical scientific explanations for it,

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<v Speaker 2>as we've already established, and they really don't take very

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<v Speaker 2>much time at all. For It's like anybody who who

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<v Speaker 2>starts to learn about these things. These are some of

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<v Speaker 2>the first things you learn.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was, it was. It kind of surprised me

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<v Speaker 1>when I started looking at all of the ten things, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of them was the teleological argument everything fits perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>We have the perfectly designed world. Science can't explain that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it was yeah, well yeah, can you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Showing that it's not a perfectly designed world. If it was,

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<v Speaker 1>then the pit of the avocado wouldn't be so big, right.

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<v Speaker 4>But I I have another argument for that, which I

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<v Speaker 4>like to tell people about the Goldilocks universe. It's a

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<v Speaker 4>form of the watchmaker argument, but it's a little different.

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<v Speaker 4>The rub is that the chances of all that coming

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<v Speaker 4>together has a probability of one. In other words, it's

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<v Speaker 4>a certainty. After all, it happened. We know that, right. Therefore,

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<v Speaker 4>it's not improbable at all because it actually happened. That

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<v Speaker 4>means it's not only probable it happened. So any combination

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<v Speaker 4>of those forces maybe could have had intelligent life appear

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<v Speaker 4>as the rules would be different, and we don't understand

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<v Speaker 4>how they would be different. It's very complex, but we

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<v Speaker 4>only have one example. So we have one sample our universe, right,

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<v Speaker 4>and that tells us nothing about what it would be

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<v Speaker 4>like to have any one of the four major forces. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>actually I call it three forces, and a gravity isn't

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<v Speaker 4>a force, so anyway, yeah, so anyway, that's it, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I just you know, it's just the probability is one.

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<v Speaker 4>Get over it. You're in the one universe. If you

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<v Speaker 4>want to.

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<v Speaker 2>Think about it that way, I would say that it's

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<v Speaker 2>not quite one. But because as you said, we only

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<v Speaker 2>have one example, we don't know how many times a

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<v Speaker 2>universe has attempted to or successfully begun or ended existing,

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<v Speaker 2>So we don't We would need to know the full

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<v Speaker 2>amount to know what sample size we have. The point

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<v Speaker 2>of the matter is that it doesn't matter because it

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<v Speaker 2>did happen, just like you said, So if it happened

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<v Speaker 2>any other way, we don't know whether that life couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>have existed in any other instantiation of the universe, or

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<v Speaker 2>that it could have, And we may never have answers

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<v Speaker 2>like that because that may not even make sense.

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<v Speaker 5>We don't really know that.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think the question makes sense actually exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we don't at the point where we know if

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<v Speaker 2>that question does make sense. So the probability of the

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<v Speaker 2>universe happening is kind of a point to even I

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<v Speaker 2>think discussed because here it is, let's just.

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<v Speaker 5>Talk about how it did.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah exactly, I know I could see it down Infidel

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<v Speaker 1>down there chomping, wanting to talk about one another.

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<v Speaker 3>One had these ten things. What do you have of

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<v Speaker 3>cour us? Well, actually I wanted to build a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit on that odds. You know, we talked about what

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<v Speaker 3>are the odds of something happening? Because oftentimes we'll hear

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<v Speaker 3>that when Christians are talking about something that has to

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<v Speaker 3>be a miracle, because what are the odds of this happening?

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<v Speaker 3>And I was reminded of a book that I read

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<v Speaker 3>as a teenager, and I picked it up almost offhandedly,

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<v Speaker 3>and it was about nine people who survived a Roshima

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<v Speaker 3>and then Nagasaki. These people survived the nuclear bomb atomic bomb,

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<v Speaker 3>went to Nagasaki and then survived another one. Now, your

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<v Speaker 3>odds are pretty bad all about, and you know, and

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<v Speaker 3>I went to started to break down how do we

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<v Speaker 3>even break down those odds? You know, you have logistics,

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<v Speaker 3>you have or are you well enough to make the trip?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, all these other things because you're surviving in

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<v Speaker 3>an atomic you know situation that nobody knows what's going on,

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<v Speaker 3>and when you start thinking about things like this, the

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<v Speaker 3>odds are pretty long. But once again, just like our universe,

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<v Speaker 3>it did happen, and so one in a million things,

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<v Speaker 3>one in ten million things happened every day. So just

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<v Speaker 3>because something's a long shot to give it a veneer

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<v Speaker 3>of a miracle, it's just so odd to me. Because

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<v Speaker 3>also you mentioned the Goldilocks universe. I'm sure that more

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<v Speaker 3>than a few of us are familiar with Douglas Adams

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<v Speaker 3>with the puddle, and everything just seems so finally, this

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<v Speaker 3>whole is just perfectly tuned for me. This to exists

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<v Speaker 3>inside this puddle, and it completely ignores that everything around

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<v Speaker 3>it is bred for this world. So yes, they tried

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<v Speaker 3>to tie in God to pretty much everything on here.

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<v Speaker 3>And the truth is the way they did it was saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>science doesn't have an exclamation, so therefore God did it.

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<v Speaker 4>And besides, science is not a thing, so you can't

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<v Speaker 4>talk about it like it's a thing. It's a method,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, So they need to educate themselves a little

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<v Speaker 4>bit too.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, the body of work that's been discovered through that

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<v Speaker 1>method too, so it's not just the method, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>also what we've been able to discover from it from

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<v Speaker 1>that method. So I think that's important to remember.

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<v Speaker 2>But that and to your point, Infidel, kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>you said, one in a million things happen so often,

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<v Speaker 2>and kellyus is something that you and I talked about

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<v Speaker 2>during the back cross. If a thing happens to you

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<v Speaker 2>once every second, a million seconds is like eleven.

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<v Speaker 5>And a half days. Pretty So I just did the math.

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<v Speaker 5>I just did. I just looked it up.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually it was what it was. It was thirty four days.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're awake and alert for eight hours a day.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, so if you're awake for being awake for

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<v Speaker 2>a million seconds, is being awake? Is thirty four days

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<v Speaker 2>worth of time? One in a million things happens every

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<v Speaker 2>thirty four days.

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<v Speaker 1>That it's I agree it. People will bring in perfectly

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<v Speaker 1>round balls into rocks into my store all the time

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<v Speaker 1>and I think they found a cannonball, and I have

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<v Speaker 1>to explain to them that we don't ever have rocks

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<v Speaker 1>been used as cannon balls in North America ever, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>And they always want to know how it got so

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<v Speaker 1>perfectly around, and that's what I always said, Well, what

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<v Speaker 1>do you think the chances of that happening one in

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<v Speaker 1>a million. Yeah, probably about that. Okay, Now think how

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<v Speaker 1>many rocks are in the twenty mile radius of the store.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably ten million. There's still nine more out there, go

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<v Speaker 1>look for.

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<v Speaker 2>I like that make a wish.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, that would be something.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, like, one of the things that really bothered

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<v Speaker 1>me was the choice of topics that this person decided

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<v Speaker 1>science couldn't explain because he picked so many topics that

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<v Speaker 1>again the science, there's no way science can explain them

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<v Speaker 1>because they aren't topics of anything physical. It was mostly,

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, philosophical things that we have that we've

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<v Speaker 1>been arguing about for millennia and still haven't found the

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<v Speaker 1>answer to.

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, and they strong and they even made they

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<v Speaker 4>made a lot of errors in this, you know, just

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<v Speaker 4>the whole the whole idea that because you know, uh,

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<v Speaker 4>science states that everything in existence must be conserved, so

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<v Speaker 4>our souls. Did you see that one life after death?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like, I just like science doesn't say that at all.

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<v Speaker 4>Nowhere to science.

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<v Speaker 1>They were talking about energy.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, you can't you can't just you can't destroy

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<v Speaker 4>energy or information.

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<v Speaker 1>I do hear that from TS a lot that that well,

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<v Speaker 1>your soul has to go somewhere because the energy can't

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<v Speaker 1>be destroyed. And now it's like no, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there are batteries and the earth is a battery, big

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<v Speaker 1>battery too. So when you die, the energy that once

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<v Speaker 1>was used to move your body around is now disappointed

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<v Speaker 1>and dissipated through the soil where it's picked up by

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<v Speaker 1>the plants for more energy. See, our energy isn't destroyed,

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<v Speaker 1>It just moves on, and people don't you.

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<v Speaker 4>Can, you can transform energy into other things. The matter

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<v Speaker 4>itself is just a different form of energy.

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<v Speaker 1>And it doesn't have to go somewhere right away. Like

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<v Speaker 1>I said, like there is a giant battery. Our energy

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<v Speaker 1>is stored within the earth until the plants needed, and

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<v Speaker 1>then stored within the plants until the animals that eat

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<v Speaker 1>the plants needed, and then stored in those animals until them.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've got to say that I found the article

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<v Speaker 3>quite interesting in the fact that they were able to

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<v Speaker 3>write so much and say so little, because at the

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<v Speaker 3>end of the day, you know, they made all these

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<v Speaker 3>claims and all these grandiose gestures, but truthfully, at the

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<v Speaker 3>end of the day, it was like, yeah, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>understand something so God did it. And that really boiled

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<v Speaker 3>down to because, as Kelly said, a lot of these

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<v Speaker 3>issues aren't things that there's a way for them to

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<v Speaker 3>be addressed through science. Science has no methodology to address

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<v Speaker 3>some of these because they're well, frankly just pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>pulled out of somebody's ass. So when you have something

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<v Speaker 3>like that, yeah, science can't answer it. You know, science

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<v Speaker 3>can't answer a lot of things because you're not asking

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<v Speaker 3>a question that science is designed to answer. And the

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<v Speaker 3>truth is that science is more about, as Kelly, you

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned the gathering of knowledge and that process in which

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<v Speaker 3>knowledge is gathered, and but it's not about making truth claims.

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<v Speaker 3>The I don't think science is ever going to say

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<v Speaker 3>the absolute way that this is and throw something out there,

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<v Speaker 3>because if science makes a claim, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 3>had to be pretty certain of it. That's why we

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<v Speaker 3>call it the theory of gravity. You know, we don't

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<v Speaker 3>call it the rule. But let's go and see on

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<v Speaker 3>the top of a building unless the out consistent that

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<v Speaker 3>this is. And that's pretty much what they're doing here,

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<v Speaker 3>just smoking smoking ashes, just trying to distract its smoking mirrors.

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<v Speaker 4>I would say add one thing though, a few of

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<v Speaker 4>these questions can be answered by science, it's just not

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<v Speaker 4>the typical three sciences. There are a couple of these

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<v Speaker 4>questions that can be answered by sociology, maybe three or four,

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<v Speaker 4>And there's psychology answers to a lot of these sorts

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<v Speaker 4>of you know, questions like why and also why you

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<v Speaker 4>ask these questions, So, you know, sociology anthropology can also

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<v Speaker 4>explain how we get to that position to where we

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<v Speaker 4>need to know what is consciousness. Well, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of ways to approach that. Consciousness is an emergent property

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<v Speaker 4>of very complex organic systems at the moment. Eventually we'll

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<v Speaker 4>see if we can make a machine, but that's all

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<v Speaker 4>that is. And any organism with a sufficiently complex brain

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<v Speaker 4>is going to have a consciousness. So we know that,

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<v Speaker 4>and we can show that in the history and development

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<v Speaker 4>of intelligence throughout the human species as well as great apes,

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<v Speaker 4>and then going to other species as well. Pigs are

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<v Speaker 4>known to be extremely intelligent. They're more intelligent than dogs.

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<v Speaker 4>Dogs are way more intelligent than a lot of other animals.

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<v Speaker 4>So these things, consciousness, intelligence, they've all been pretty much

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<v Speaker 4>sussed out for the basics. So read a book, take

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<v Speaker 4>a class.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I wonder if if this is one of

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<v Speaker 2>those things where, like, you know, how, if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to get the right answer to something, all you got

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<v Speaker 2>to do is post the wrong answer online and somebody

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<v Speaker 2>will correct you faster than if you ask the question.

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<v Speaker 2>But what drives algorithms and gets views is comments. So

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<v Speaker 2>what this guy is doing is like, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>say a bunch of wrong shit all at once, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to.

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<v Speaker 5>Get so many fucking comments.

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<v Speaker 3>Man point.

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<v Speaker 5>Maybe that's what this is me.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be, it could be. You know, we just

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<v Speaker 1>had the back Crewise. All four of us were at

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<v Speaker 1>the ACA Back Cruise. It's an annual event. We had

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of fun, and the ACA does a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of other cool events besides the back Cruiser. You can

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<v Speaker 1>find out what some of those events are by going

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<v Speaker 1>to Atheist Typingcommunity dot org.

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<v Speaker 3>Visit the website there.