1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,079 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,840 social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,079 Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas. 13 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 4: Welcome to Mind of a Murder. 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,079 Speaker 1: I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're. 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,119 Speaker 5: Joined today by Jill Harrington, Dan Harrington and Jane Lillian 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,799 Vance here to talk to us about the amazing work 17 00:00:52,799 --> 00:00:55,479 they are doing at Help Save the Next Girl. 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: This is part two of our conversation with Dan, Jill 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,719 and Jane discussing the work of Help Save the Next Girl. 20 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:09,200 At this point, we're discussing their relationship with law enforcement 21 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:14,719 during the investigation into Morgan Harrington's murder in two thousand 22 00:01:14,719 --> 00:01:16,239 and nine. 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 4: I think one of the greatest contributions the Harringtons and 24 00:01:20,879 --> 00:01:24,719 Help Say the Next Girl have made is exactly this. 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:34,519 The triangulation between victim's family, news media, and police has 26 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:41,959 evolved into an incredibly supportive set of relationships. Where before 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:50,280 there was hierarchy, doubt and closed doors. Now we know sheriffs, deputies, 28 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:57,200 police captains, lieutenant's investigators, and they are our friends. Not 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,599 because we are pretending to be police are not, but because, 30 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,120 my god, the list of support Brent since Helps Say 31 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:09,240 the Next Girl has given recently Jill can tell you about. 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,400 But one example is a police officer recently said, and 33 00:02:14,479 --> 00:02:17,479 they come to Jill's home, Dan and Jill's home to 34 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,000 eat at the table. We make sure of that we 35 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,360 break bread. That's what you do when you care about someone. 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,240 And one policewoman said, it's hard for us in crime 37 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:33,840 situations because active situations, because we don't have kevlar best 38 00:02:34,199 --> 00:02:38,199 Why because our brains are smaller and we don't have 39 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,039 all the money, so they order the larger sizes for 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,479 the men. Help Say the Next Girl took complete care 41 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,719 of that problem. Those things happen in conversations now. It's 42 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,360 amazing and people are grateful, of course they are, but 43 00:02:53,439 --> 00:02:57,960 it takes someone breaking the old father knows best mold. 44 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000 And then look at the relationship and ship changed with 45 00:03:01,159 --> 00:03:04,680 news media. Jill, let you talk about this. Actually this 46 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:10,080 then at the first meeting when we went to Charlottesville, when. 47 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 6: We on the Monday following Morgan's murder, we obviously were 48 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,199 needing to meet with the university police at UVA, as 49 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,520 well as the state police and probably even the county police, 50 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,639 and we spent the whole day there and at the 51 00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:31,080 end of the day they said, there's a large contingent 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,039 of media in front, and we recommend that you go 53 00:03:34,159 --> 00:03:38,919 out the back, and Joe and I both said, absolutely not. 54 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,360 We have the ability to present what situation we were 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,520 in to the media so that the public can be 56 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:53,680 engaged and perhaps help us. And so the reality of 57 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,159 it is, we went out front and it was very emotional. 58 00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:01,719 I get cheerful sometimes with all this. We're asking if 59 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,840 Morgan's out there, please come home, if you've left, if not, 60 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:12,759 if someone's taken you, please bring Morgan back. From then on, literally, 61 00:04:13,199 --> 00:04:16,600 we're actually very lucky that there wasn't a war or 62 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,839 earthquake or anything like that in the month following that. 63 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,720 In it we spent we said no to only one 64 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:30,639 and we won't say it is only one invite, and 65 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,759 we were on TV all the time, and that was 66 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,800 a really important piece for us. And we're educated people, 67 00:04:39,879 --> 00:04:44,800 and sometimes what happens in these situations or that families 68 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:51,319 are not as educated and are also fearful and don't 69 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,959 know what to do. And we didn't know what to do, 70 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:54,759 but we knew. 71 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,439 Speaker 4: What we had to do. 72 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,319 Speaker 6: And that's one reason I think that so many of 73 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,319 these cases has never come to light within communities because 74 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,920 people can't get the media to come talk with them 75 00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:10,879 because they don't know that they can. We were very 76 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,000 fortunate that we were able to utilize the media as 77 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,480 we did, because I think it was helpful to us. 78 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:23,079 Speaker 4: That they were invaluable and to move the culture because 79 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,560 we did with law enforcement with media, often the victims 80 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,399 and media. Victims, families and media are adversarial, but we 81 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:35,759 needed their help to find our daughter and to help 82 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:41,399 us solicit information from the community, and we would have 83 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,160 people come to the house. We would if you were 84 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:47,959 a fifth grader and your school paper wanted to do 85 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,480 a little story, we would speak with you, and we 86 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:55,680 said yes to pretty much everyone, and reporters would come 87 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,839 and go in Morgan's room and stop at the threshold 88 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,639 and say, oh my god, those are the same sheets 89 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,959 my little sister took to college. So they had a 90 00:06:04,959 --> 00:06:08,319 connection and they worked with us and helped us a lot. 91 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,279 The relationships that we developed over time with media had 92 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,079 many benefits for us in furthering and continuing interest in 93 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,040 Morten's case, but we were also able to provide soccor 94 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:30,920 and support to media in our community. When to media, 95 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:37,160 Adam and Allison were executed on air, and those people 96 00:06:37,319 --> 00:06:41,399 who had interviewed us in our living room about our 97 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,720 daughter's death came all to our house to eat and 98 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,759 to cry and to comfort one another about the loss 99 00:06:49,959 --> 00:06:55,199 that station had incurred. Again, the boundaries have moved and 100 00:06:55,319 --> 00:06:58,959 were some I know none of those young people ever 101 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:02,959 envisioned that they would be the one sitting in a 102 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:07,120 chair being interviewed about a pedastrophe like murder. 103 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:11,439 Speaker 5: That was absolutely horrific. I remember when that happened, and you. 104 00:07:11,439 --> 00:07:15,319 Speaker 4: Have to understand when Dan and Jil say they've been 105 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,680 in our home that means they are welcomed like family. 106 00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:23,680 Here's try this sweet peach tea. And here, let me 107 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,040 get you something to eat and sit here, and then 108 00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:29,199 we'll go to Morgan's room. Would you like to look 109 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,319 at for drawings. Let me tell you about this one painting. 110 00:07:32,759 --> 00:07:38,240 And they open up as well. So what was stiff 111 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,439 if not adversarial melts. And that time when all the 112 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,680 reporters from different channels they called and said, may we 113 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,279 come to your home? And yes, they said, we're on 114 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:55,600 the other side of the story. Now it wasn't just that, 115 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:02,120 it wasn't the technical realization that now had someone who 116 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,959 had been murdered. It was that they knew who understood 117 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:11,920 the anatomy of grief and of survival with loving arms. 118 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,720 I remember Dan's Catholic priest father, Steve Dan, was there 119 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,160 that night, and he no one would have known he 120 00:08:21,279 --> 00:08:24,800 was a priest. He was in civilian outfit, but he 121 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,000 was going from person to person. There were a lot 122 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,120 of tears that night, and there was bonding. That's what 123 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,519 I mean. When my part of the book begins, I 124 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,399 say that one of the things Jill has done dyl 125 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,559 and Dan and help say the next girl have done 126 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:50,279 is change the history of Virginia because of those relationships 127 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,360 of news media once seemed to be kind of scurless 128 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:59,799 and invasive, police seemingly cold, and father knows best, and 129 00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:04,000 victim's family seemingly helpless. And it's not our case. It 130 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,600 is evolved here in great part because of the Harrington's 131 00:09:08,919 --> 00:09:12,360 great hearts and sights you. 132 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,879 Speaker 5: Just mentioned Alison Parker and Adam Ward, who for our 133 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:19,080 listeners who may not be familiar, they were executed live 134 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:24,799 on television by a disgruntled colleague. Allison's father, Andy Parker, 135 00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:28,519 is also doing a lot of work to further legislation. 136 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:32,120 Are you in contact with Andy at all? And are 137 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:34,320 you Have you guys worked in any way together? 138 00:09:34,919 --> 00:09:38,799 Speaker 4: We have not. We have not. Bill. 139 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 6: Yes, I have to leave for another meeting, and I 140 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,480 really appreciate participating in this. But you have the two 141 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:51,159 experts on the screen. Okay, Thanks Dan, thank you. Thanks. 142 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:51,919 Speaker 5: It's great to meet you. 143 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:52,159 Speaker 4: Dan. 144 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:53,639 Speaker 6: Nice to meet you too. 145 00:09:55,159 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: Are you comfortable in now dealing it's fifteen years on 146 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:05,159 since we lost Morgan. Are you comfortable talking with the 147 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,360 parents of other victims of violent crime? Is that something 148 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,080 that does it bring back some of your sense of loss? 149 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,200 And pain, or is it something you feel like you're 150 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,320 taking your life experience and able to help them as 151 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,200 you did with the law enforcement people and the media people. 152 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 4: I think, to me, service is the way out of 153 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,320 the pit. I'm an oncology nurse, and people would say, 154 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,240 how in the world can you go into that specialty 155 00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:41,679 because it's so sad, it's they're often that outcomes, And 156 00:10:42,279 --> 00:10:45,720 for me, it is a privilege to work with people 157 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,519 at such an intimate time and to know that I 158 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,720 can make it better. I may not change the outcome, 159 00:10:53,879 --> 00:10:56,679 but I can make them more comfortable along the way. 160 00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:01,159 And it's not a different kind of action that you 161 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,679 do with other victims' families. And I also think that 162 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:10,440 we can show that we have established a considerable degree 163 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,120 of wholeness. We can have the docs for Morgan basketball game, 164 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,720 and that our daughter died is actually the seed for 165 00:11:17,919 --> 00:11:24,200 a joyful circus and fun day that you can come 166 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,000 back into a land of joy, and just being able 167 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,799 to model that I think is helpful. Jill, in reference 168 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:38,320 to Bill's great question about your working with other families, 169 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,000 will you speak to what you did in response to 170 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,200 young seventeen year old Alexis Murphy's murder in Virginia some 171 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:55,080 years ago, so Alexsis was missing. I think it overlapped 172 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,320 with Morgan's time will being missing. And we did events 173 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,600 with them and for that it was so funny. They 174 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,600 came to the first time that I met them. They 175 00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:07,639 came to an event that we were doing outside like 176 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,120 a grocery store. We would set up a stand and 177 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,639 pass out literature. They came up and I swear it 178 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,120 was like a clown car. There were people kept coming 179 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,960 out of that car, coming out of that car. And 180 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,360 I went and met her mother and her aunt and 181 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:26,600 I said, I'm amazed that you have such a big family. 182 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,200 This is great. And I said it's like a clown car. 183 00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:33,000 It never stops. And they were laughing about that, and 184 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:35,559 I said, we have a really small family and it's 185 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,679 smaller now. And she hugged me and she said, well, 186 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:43,679 your family just got bigger. We have tried to help 187 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:49,039 other people along the way. I talk about how you 188 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,000 were determined to be in the courtroom for Alexis's family. 189 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,960 This is an amazing story. Yeah. I went every day, 190 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,720 was an hour and a half, hour and a half 191 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:05,200 one way to the courtroom to be there. To support them, 192 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:13,759 because courtrooms intentionally are very stern, severe places, and I 193 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:17,600 wanted to just be there, And in fact, that is 194 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:20,919 one of the ways that helps see the next girl 195 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,039 does victim support is we go to trials law. We 196 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:30,960 attended Nicole Lovel's trial in Welsburg. You should probably tell 197 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:37,120 this story of we were with the police captain Nicole 198 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,840 Lovel's murder. I knew Nicole Lovell, a little thirteen year 199 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,759 old girl who met a predator online on the back 200 00:13:45,799 --> 00:13:49,000 of a game and said to one of our friends, 201 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:52,639 I always knew i'd meet my current prince charming. But 202 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:57,519 that young man and his sort of understudy accomplice were 203 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:03,840 real associopaths who planned her violent, awful dozens of stabbings 204 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,000 and other things murder. And so we went to the 205 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,559 trials of David Eisenhower and Natalie Keeper's ironic last name 206 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:19,000 for her. I usually do drawings and quote some of 207 00:14:19,039 --> 00:14:23,840 the salient and strange things that the people on trial say. 208 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,759 But Jill made such an insight, and this is so 209 00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:33,200 typical of you, Jill. She saw Nicole Lovel's grandfather, who 210 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,799 had been a military man and of my father's generation. 211 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,039 The vitalis hair nicely combed back. And what did you notice? 212 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,200 They called him Big Fred and he was no longer big. 213 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,759 He was caved in. And I sat behind him every 214 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,840 day of that trial and would see he had little 215 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:01,519 yellow ear plums in because he was he felt honor 216 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,279 bound to be in that space for his granddaughter. That 217 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,200 he could not stand to hear what game were saying. 218 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 7: Oh gosh, And that is so typical of Jill's compassion 219 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,559 and insight to notice that Bigfred had those banana yellow earplogs, 220 00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:22,639 and Bigfred hogged us. 221 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 4: And when the sentencing of those two murderers was light 222 00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:32,440 in our opinion, I remember Jill hogging that family in 223 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,120 a way that I think was medicinal helped them. So 224 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:42,039 the courtroom time has been very important, and the ongoing 225 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,879 relations with families, the support we know their nephews and grandchildren. 226 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,159 And I remember at one event in honor of Alexis, 227 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,720 who was this great athlete, great academic student in her 228 00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:02,759 little high school in Country Virginia, I made a portrait 229 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,039 of Alexis. Oh it brings tears to say. It occurred 230 00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:13,360 to me. She was seventeen and so beautiful and so vivacious, 231 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,759 but half the portrait that one half vertically was of 232 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:21,320 the seventeen year old we see in pictures smiling and 233 00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:26,879 participating on social media. But the portrait fades subtly to 234 00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:31,360 the Alexis who's beginning to have silver hair. And so 235 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:35,159 you could cover one side and have the young Alexis, 236 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,720 and then you could cover the other side and see 237 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,120 the woman we lost. And I remember her mother doing 238 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,200 that with her hand. There's the young Alexis. I can't 239 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,879 know the older Alexis. And I think those are some 240 00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:53,720 of the pieces that occur to us to add with 241 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,840 our particular skills. 242 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back 243 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:17,799 after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at 244 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,200 Mind over Murder. 245 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 4: Helps say the next girl being an or organically conceived, 246 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,839 I think has served us well. The courtroom piece, I 247 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,839 never anticipated that there would be a need for it, 248 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,599 but having been in a courtroom, you were like, oh, yeah, 249 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,640 this is a really tough place. It would be supportive 250 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,240 to people. We've had a young nurse get in touch 251 00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:52,160 with us that she had been abducted and raped and said, 252 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,079 I know that you sometimes go to court with people 253 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,640 and I do not want my husband, my family, or 254 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,920 my baby girl to be in the courtroom to hear 255 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,759 the forensic evidence and listen to the testimony. Will you 256 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,519 all come with me? And Jane and I did. Yes, 257 00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:17,559 we did, and we had breakfast with her, and we 258 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,920 held her hand, and we sat in the fore room 259 00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:23,920 with her, and we were in the courtroom as he 260 00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:30,000 was sentenced. We corresponded. She sent us little remembrance gifts, 261 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,000 but that was the part we needed to do, and 262 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,279 it was an honor to do it. 263 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:40,759 Speaker 5: It is so astounding that you are able to give 264 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,200 so much of yourself and yet there is still so 265 00:18:43,319 --> 00:18:48,680 much more leftover That is incredibly inspiring and heartening. 266 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 4: In person, Jill Harrington is roughly the size of a 267 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,920 spool of thread. She is a tiny human being, but 268 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,400 my god, volcanoes, wisdom, and compassion are packed into her. 269 00:19:04,079 --> 00:19:06,960 It's not just the story of the small woman who 270 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:09,519 can lift the back of a car to save a child. 271 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,759 She has lifted families in these fifteen years. I'm not 272 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:17,519 sure anyone else has the skill set that I have 273 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,599 seen in her. And she is a person of service, 274 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,319 but she's got a particular genius about helping practically that 275 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:29,200 has made a difference for so many people. 276 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: We think of you as a giant hill, so you 277 00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:35,640 know you're like ten feet tall in our world. 278 00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:39,519 Speaker 4: Bill, when you come to Virginia, I'll test you on that, Okay, 279 00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:43,599 to tell the lie, I'm sitting on a book save. 280 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: Here for the record and for our listeners, and useful 281 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,160 that the Harringtons have been trying to invite us to 282 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,640 dinner for I think probably fifteen years, and I was 283 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,200 on in Los Angeles for a number of years. Now Connecticut, 284 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,960 at least Christen's in the same state, but we are 285 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,359 expecting some significant developments in the Colonial Parkway murders conversation 286 00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:14,480 for another day. I think I will be back in 287 00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:18,440 Virginia much more frequently in the coming months, and we 288 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,359 definitely plan on having that dinner at some point. 289 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 4: Great, Great, let's make it happen. Bill. There. I know 290 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,720 we have told you many stories, but there's one more 291 00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:32,039 story that I would like to tell you. It's another 292 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:34,839 story of me having a wobble. It's in the book. 293 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,319 The first year after Morgan was killed, the first trip 294 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,319 to go back to Zambia, and my team said, it's 295 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,640 going to be too hard for you because it's physically 296 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,920 and emotionally very demanding work that we do. I said, no, 297 00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:56,359 I can do it. I'm strong, I'm ready to go. 298 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,599 I would not come if I would be an impediment 299 00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:03,119 to the team. I got this, I'm going to go. Well. 300 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,759 The first clinic we were at was I'm the leader 301 00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:09,839 of woone Care, so I didn't happen to be too busy. 302 00:21:09,839 --> 00:21:15,519 At Winecare and our team leader, Karen came over and said, Jill, 303 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,599 we've got a young child here that is sick and 304 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,799 needs to go to the hospital. Will you be the 305 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:28,720 nurse on transport with the mother and baby and the grandmother, 306 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,720 you know. I said, yeah, I'm not busy right now. 307 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:34,480 I'll do that, and the three of us and the 308 00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:37,640 baby got in the car in the it was actually 309 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,319 the bus was the only vehicle we had left. The 310 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,519 hospital was probably about half an hour away, and that 311 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:48,400 little baby during the course of the ride became more 312 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:54,279 and more lethargic and agonal, stopping breathing. I kept stimulating 313 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,440 this baby. I saw this little tiny ends of her 314 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,720 fingers turned white like pearls as her blood pressure was dropping. 315 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,480 We got to the hospital and she was dead within 316 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:18,279 minutes after transport. I was so pissed. I was furious 317 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:23,599 at God or fate or whatever. How can this be? 318 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,920 I went to Africa to mitigate my pain by saving 319 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,759 other people and other people's children, and I instead I'm 320 00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:36,880 here with a baby dying on my lap? How can 321 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:42,279 that be? And what took me forty eight hours to 322 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,279 receive my teaching? That baby was ten months old, her 323 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,039 name was Gift. Mother was twenty, the age of my Morgan. 324 00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:59,319 That mother had her gift for only ten months. I 325 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,720 had my organ for twenty years, and I felt cheated. 326 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,359 Was the luckiest person alone. 327 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: It's a pretty powerful lesson, though. Did this come to 328 00:23:10,759 --> 00:23:11,359 you later? 329 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 4: Did you realize me two days there to get over 330 00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:21,079 my fury and put it down and say, what a 331 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,799 fool I am experiencing these emotions when I am the 332 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,480 lucky one. I had twenty yes with my kid. 333 00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 5: Before we let you all go, we wanted to mention 334 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,160 that helped save the next girl has a regular social 335 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,599 media presence, and the reason that we reached out is 336 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,640 you all had put up a social media post very 337 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,160 interesting to us in the last couple of weeks, and 338 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,279 that is the rather alarming intelligence that there there are 339 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:06,480 currently five teenage girls missing from the same area of Lynchburg. 340 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,119 I'm really hoping that there is a good outcome to this. 341 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,039 Have you heard any updates recently that there is potentially 342 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,200 a good outcome here that these girls have been found? 343 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 4: Three of the five have been found. Oh, thank goodness. 344 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:28,119 And I have a contact with the Lynchburg Police, a 345 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,480 very kind and polite officer, and we asked before we 346 00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:36,240 spoke to you. But that means that there are two 347 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,799 young women underage, and as Jill said so poignantly and practically, 348 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:47,400 it's getting cold. One of the distinctions we are fierce 349 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:53,480 about making is not using the word runaway. We use 350 00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:59,440 the word endangered because for whatever reason, that young person 351 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:03,920 is miss saying they are endangered, so we do not castigate. 352 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,640 We tried to help save the next girl. 353 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,559 Speaker 5: I'm so glad that three of them have been safely located. 354 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,880 That is amazing. That was when I said. The minute 355 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,519 that I saw that on your Facebook page, at my 356 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,079 antenna went up. I called Bill and I said, we 357 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,200 have to cover this. This is so upsetting because it 358 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,440 should be the sort of thing that like a national 359 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,960 media network should have grabbed hold of instantly and said, 360 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,720 why are there five young women missing in this one area. 361 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,359 So I was a little surprised that it wasn't. But 362 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,640 I'm so glad that you all had posted it on 363 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,119 Facebook so that we could signal boost it. 364 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 4: And do you know how we found out? Jill was 365 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,160 invited to be the guest speaker at an event that 366 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:57,359 was the Virginia State Cheer Off, So cheer teams, okay, 367 00:25:57,599 --> 00:25:59,799 all met and to tell you, it was like watching 368 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,480 the Olympics. They're so gymnastic and so talented and so 369 00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:09,519 full of dance and costumes. A smaller school was there 370 00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:13,319 from Lynchburg, and the coach came up and thanked Jill, 371 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,839 and then as she was leaving, she shrugged her shoulders 372 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,920 and said, yeah, it's really important. We've got five girls 373 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,440 missing since the beginning of October and Lynchburg and we 374 00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:27,240 looked at each other and said, five alarm fire. Why 375 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,960 didn't we know this? Because our ears to the ground 376 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,079 on these things. When you're in the club, listen, So 377 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,839 we I think amped it up, and I hope we 378 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,119 did it properly, and I'm glad you saw it, and. 379 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:43,799 Speaker 2: Then hopefully we can find these other two missing girls. 380 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, you bet. 381 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: How do young girls and young women get involved with 382 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:53,160 Help Save the Next Girl. You do a lot of 383 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,160 community outreach, So how does it work from the perspective 384 00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,640 of it. If it's okay to call them kids young people? 385 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,519 How did they get involved with your programs? 386 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 4: When we're not speaking and inviting them, they contact us. 387 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,279 Our most recent contact is Ohio State University, and a 388 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:16,880 young student there wrote and said, Hi, I'm interested in 389 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,440 being a leader at this school. What do we need 390 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,599 to do? And within five minutes she's got a voluminous 391 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,880 welcome and all you need to have is a faculty 392 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,400 member in case you need to ask a question. And 393 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,880 then I think I've sent to you the thirty six 394 00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:38,359 recipes to keep a chapter active in cooking. And we 395 00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:42,799 tell them that we are not a manifesto. We don't 396 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,400 require a certain number of meetings and proof that they 397 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,319 are doing anything in particular to help save the Next Girl. 398 00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:54,839 We are a movement, and so we encourage the creative 399 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,000 process in their take on how to be a help 400 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:01,440 say the Next Girl chapter, and my God or young 401 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,440 people good at it. 402 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,279 Speaker 2: So, for instance, a place like Ohio State, we want 403 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,799 these young women, many of whom may be away from 404 00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:12,680 home for the first time. And I think about my 405 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:15,680 time many years ago at the University of Massachusetts where 406 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,200 we had a cluster of sexual assaults and a lot 407 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,720 of the young women that were being victimized were freshmen. 408 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,960 And again, you're seventeen, eighteen years old away from home 409 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:31,559 for the first time. And look, the world is a 410 00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,799 big and wonderful and exciting place, but it can also 411 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,440 be a dangerous place. You need to be aware and 412 00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:42,200 have that self awareness that there are predators out there 413 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:44,319 and that you need to be careful, and there are 414 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:48,440 people that will prey on, particularly the youngest of whether 415 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,920 it's a high school or a college age population. I 416 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,559 think it's so exciting that this becomes a self directed thing. 417 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,880 You've built a template. Any group of young people can 418 00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:02,880 help save. 419 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 4: The next girl, and boy do they? And when you 420 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,160 say boy do they? We have a lot of young 421 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,799 men who are part of our movement. In fact, the 422 00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:17,279 Phareh chapter, their vice president and president are both males. Yes, 423 00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:20,039 and we welcome that. We say we need heroes of 424 00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:24,359 every gender. It is so heartening that the template is 425 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,119 taken on. I gave a talk to the Virginia Tech 426 00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:33,799 our flagship our first chapter, about a month ago, and 427 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,240 I heard from so many of the kids who heard 428 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:40,079 me speak the other and they've taken it on with 429 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:44,440 such passion. The other part of Help Save the Next 430 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,519 Girl is when you do reach out to us as 431 00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:51,640 a prospective new chapter, we are able to send you 432 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,440 Santa Claus's gift box for how to be present and 433 00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:01,000 visible on campus or at school immediately. We send so 434 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,519 many Help Save the Next Girl shirts, we send vinyl 435 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,839 banners to put off at football games. We send We've 436 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,640 already its literature, and we've built up such an arsenal 437 00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:20,680 of literature of our own brochures, cards, stickers, and all 438 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,759 of that gets to them. So, as Jill has said, 439 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:27,240 they don't have to be putting on a bake sale 440 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,519 in order to be Help Save the Next Girl. They 441 00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,480 can hit the ground running, and that's what we want. 442 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 5: This sounds like something I may need to open a 443 00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:38,359 chapter of at the high school where I teach. 444 00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 4: Ready for you bit. 445 00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: I love that idea, and I think that's a great idea. 446 00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:47,440 How can mind Over Murder listeners help you? Is there 447 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,759 a way to contribute funds or like Kristin just said, 448 00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:54,400 she wants to start a Help Save the Next Girl 449 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,759 chapter at her high school. What can our listeners do 450 00:30:57,839 --> 00:30:58,319 to help you? 451 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,759 Speaker 4: There is a donate button on our website. Donations are 452 00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:10,839 always appreciated and utilized very carefully. We're not a business, 453 00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:15,319 and we are we have an open hand with our 454 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,200 work and our chapter. We don't If you want to 455 00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:21,920 change the logo a little bit, do it, put your 456 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,640 colors on it, customize it to you. The movement is 457 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:30,839 relevant where you are in your locale, which is very 458 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,680 different than most organizations operate. So if you go to 459 00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:40,880 the website, there's a donate button and there's a contact 460 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,400 to us link which leads you directly to me. And 461 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,880 I am Johnny on the spot, ready to talk to you, 462 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:52,799 and I take it very seriously Jill's phrase, You individuate 463 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,559 the suffering. You individuate your connections as well, and then 464 00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:02,319 they are sincere and hearty. And I don't imagine I 465 00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:07,359 will ever run low on energy for the nonprofit that 466 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,240 was started in honor of my student, Morgan Harrington. She 467 00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:15,319 was remarkable, She made me laugh. She was an A 468 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,640 plus student when she left my course. And it is 469 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,599 a tough course. I require such precision and a lot 470 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,920 of editing, and I owe her if I'd made a 471 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,400 film that won a lot of awards with my film 472 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,359 team called A Gift for the Village about making a 473 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,720 painting and taking it to the west of Nepal. The 474 00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:40,160 film is dedicated to Morgan Harrington. She would have been 475 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,000 part of my film team. She was remarkable. Yes, we 476 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:47,000 have a lot of energy, and with Jill and Dan, 477 00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:48,079 we have a lot of wisdom. 478 00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:51,359 Speaker 5: Well, this has been amazing talking to you. Thank you 479 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,160 so much for joining us. 480 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 4: It was really such a pleasure to meet both of you. 481 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,839 We think so for the evening. It has been so 482 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,759 admire your work. We understand the nature of it, and 483 00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:06,839 we're here for you as well. And Bill, can I 484 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,839 just tell you what a champion for justice you have been. 485 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,759 You're here, your sister's behalf. We have been walking this 486 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,759 path for fifteen years. You have more than doubled the 487 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:24,079 distance that we have, and you still have stamina and 488 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:28,680 resilience to keep on. I admire that so much. We're 489 00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:29,960 sorry not to know her. 490 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:31,359 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. 491 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,119 Speaker 5: That is going to do it for this episode of 492 00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:37,720 mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll 493 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:38,480 see you next time. 494 00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 495 00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:53,200 Another Dog Productions. 496 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,079 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 497 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,839 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 498 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,559 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin mcleoud. 499 00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 500 00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:11,079 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 501 00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 502 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,599 Murders on Facebook. 503 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 504 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,079 Bill Thomas five six. 505 00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.