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Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.

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Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I

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tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not.

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Speaker 3: Because I put my hand on a book and made

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a wish.

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Speaker 1: And working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 4: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness. Truth,

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Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 4: We talk a lot about the Bible being written by

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men and how Christians are often saying, you know, it's

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it's a pro woman book. And I want to get

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into that with the authors of a new book just released.

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It's called Clearly Written by Boys, A Woman's Guide to

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the Bible, written by Karis Burkowski and Dave Fitzgerald, and

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they joined me here. So good to see you both.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely great to see you, Chris.

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Speaker 4: I know that you've done some writing in the past

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about the man made nature of gods. I just did

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a speech on this. I'm always referring to my previous

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speeches and because you know how it is. You do

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this long enough, and there's always a reference work in

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the queue in the holster. But we see our gods

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that look like us, and so this is this is

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very familiar territory for you, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean the first book was Why Men

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Made God? And then this time when David came up

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with the idea clearly written by boys, I just jumped

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on it. I loved it because it's so much more

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appropriate like that. The nature of that thinking behind why

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it was written that way is far more like a

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bunch of nineteen year old in celts than it is

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about you know, mature men.

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Speaker 4: It is a biblical Mannosphere. Oh, we're going to talk

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about that. David Fitzgerald, historical researcher, is a buddy. We've

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known each other forever because we're always talking about his

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heretical works, including Nailed Jesus, Mything and Action Playing God.

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The Evolutionary History of World Religion is book on the Mormons,

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you blasphemer going after God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, it's a living.

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Speaker 4: Well all right, let's before we get into more unfamiliar territory,

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because this is a well versed audience sewing in the

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bimless misogynistic, and it was even the garden and blah

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blah blah. But you guys take a much much deeper dive,

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which is why I wanted to have the conversation. But

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we got to talk about Eve. So Eve is tempted

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by the snake. The snake's whispering in Eve's ear, she

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whispers in Adam's ear. God is somehow surprised, and then

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he gets pissed, and there are punishments. Now, the punishment

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for Adam is to he's going to have to labor

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on the land, but the punishment for Eve is a

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labor of a different kind. Caros will start with you

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even the garden. You want to get into some of

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the problems there.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, her big punishment is because she's

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seeking knowledge. I mean the serpent, which we kind of

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talk a little bit about being a character out of

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the old Great Goddess kind of stories, the pre biblical

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belief system when the Great Mother was the birther of

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all life on the planet and all of that. But

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the serpent whispers to her that she can gain knowledge.

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Wants to gain knowledge, so she takes the apple. Well,

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that's just can't be. That's just the biggest crime ever.

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So you know that's what makes God meant so he

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punishes her physically. She's going to have pain and suffering

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and all that kind of stuff, and she's going to

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be lusting after her husband. I'm not sure which interpretation

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of those words we talked about.

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Speaker 2: How it can be desire for your husband. Yes, you

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shall rule over you.

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Speaker 4: No, I totally. I totally read it as you will

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want to have sex, you will have sexual desire, and

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this is part of Eve's curse. In fact, it was

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how my sisters were taught about biblical womanhood in our

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very evangelical home. So yeah, I mean that's how I

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read it, Keras anyway, okay, but.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting how many different ways you can spin that,

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and none of them are particularly good for women.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So, by the way, for the pedantic in the audience,

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we know the Bible doesn't say apple, but Christian tradition apple, right,

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we got even the apple. That's how we come to

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I'm just I'm getting in front of it for you, Kiris,

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because I know where you're going with that. You included

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a poem in the first part of the book, and

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I just want to read it. It's very short by

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Daniel Coffin. It's titled If Adam Picked the Apple, and

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it says there would be a parade, a celebration, a

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holiday to commemorate the day he sought enlightenment. We would

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not speak of temptation by the devil. Rather, we would

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laud Adam's curiosity is desire for adventure and knowing we

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would feast on apple inspired fair torts, Chutney's pancakes, pies.

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There would be plays and songs re enacting his courage.

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But it was Eve who grew bored, weary of her

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captivity in Eden. And a woman's desire for freedom is

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rarely a cause for celebration. Powerful stuff that.

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Speaker 5: Is so good. Where when we discover that poem, like

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it's perfect fit.

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Speaker 4: Interesting that it's a sexual punishment for Eve, like for Adam.

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You're gonna work your ass off, there will be weeds

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on the land. Okay, fine, Eve, it's gonna hurt like

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a mother to reproduce, and you're gonna have the hots

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for your husband, who will rule over you. I just

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mind that. Fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course it's the it's the woman's fault

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that men get horny for her because you know it's

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it's woman's desire. Yet, you know, we don't hear much

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about husband rape in history. We hear a lot about

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spousal rape, you know, of wives.

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Speaker 4: I know it's going to be a subjective answer. And

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we see a ton of female evangelical preachers leader figures

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here in the twenty first century. But it's been the

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case for the longest time. You know what comes to mind,

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off Rod, We've got Joyce Meyer, we got Beth Moore,

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we got Paula White, we got Victoria Ostein, et cetera.

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Many of these people are just freaking celebrity, best selling millionaire,

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celebrity pastors. How do you think these people reconcile their

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leadership with two Timothy? You know the woman be silent thing, Karrots,

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you're a woman, do you have any thoughts on that?

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Speaker 3: Well, they just figured out how they can use the

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religion to buy into the patriarchy and get some power,

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so they're going for it.

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Speaker 4: So you think they're using the system.

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Speaker 3: Religion as a tool, so they will use these women

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as helpers to use it as a tool.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, at the end of the day, they're quistlings.

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They're selling out their own sex for their own money

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comfort power.

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Speaker 4: Because they're not just preaching to women. I don't think.

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I think they're preaching to everybody.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and yet, yeah, there's any number of Bible

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verses you could throw at them for to not do that.

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And yet somehow, the fact that they are as successful

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as they are shilling for this toxic message that they're selling,

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it's just heinous. It's really heinous, and it's it's just

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another example of Christian hypocrisy. It's like they're all set

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to throw a Bible verse at things they don't like,

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stuff like this. It's explicitly forbidden in their own scriptures.

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Speaker 4: No problem with it, Keros. I know Dave's background. Did

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you come out of a fundy faith or have you

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always been smarter than me?

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Speaker 3: No? I was very much a good little Christian. My

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sort of moment when I lost it was in confirmation class.

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I was an evangelical Lutheran and we were in Confirmation

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class and we were learning about transubstantiation and consinstantiation. You know,

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where the priests is the magic words and then the

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bread and the crackers turns into the body and blood

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of Christ and then we're supposed to eat it. And

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I freaked out in the middle of confirmation classes and

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I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 5: That's cannibalism.

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Speaker 3: And that I got told to talk to him behind

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after the class, and things just fell apart from there.

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That was the moment when I started looking at all

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of it and thinking, this is.

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Speaker 5: This is nonsense.

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Speaker 4: I hear a lot of stories like that, the curious

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young Catholic and then the nuns sort of slapping among

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the knuckles with the rulers, so to speak. You know

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of scenario on well, you're too much trouble, and then

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often they just get booted. You know what, we don't

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like questions, have a nice life, We'll see you later.

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Did that happen to you?

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Speaker 3: No. He kept trying to recruit me and I because

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it was a very like it's a small town and

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there was a tight Christian town, and I would have

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been shunned at high school. I would like, everything would

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have been a terrible thing if I said, no, I'm

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not going to do confirmation and this is crap. So

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I had to go along with it and just not

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say anything.

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Speaker 4: I'll admit though, that I don't know much about the

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Lutherans and their teachings about women. Was it subjugation teaching

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in the Lutheran Church.

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Speaker 3: Not overtly, but it was still the man was the

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ruler of the family and you know, closer to God.

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And we still had wear head coverings in church and

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stuff like that back then. It's not so much anymore,

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but it was pretty pretty traditional in those.

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Speaker 4: Ways, written by boys. This Bible, let's stay in the

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Old Testament for a second, and I'll just let you

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take it where you want. But I got to start

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with Jezebel. So I walk into it a Sunday morning,

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Sunday school classroom, say the word Jezebel. I'm guessing I'll

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bet you twenty bucks. The first thing that pops into

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the brain to the people in the room slot murderer. Right, Jezbel.

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I'll start with you, I guess, Dave, you want to

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tell me about Jezebel, Describe who Jezebel allegedly was and

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what the story is here.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've got two Jezebel's. We can talk about the

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one in the Bible that we get the most worst

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person you can imagine, or we can talk about the

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real person whose name was not Jezebel. By the way,

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it's not even her real name, Ihabeil, who was not

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only a real person, and you can't say that about

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a lot of people in the Old Testament, but she

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her husband's family, their dynasty. They were the first royal

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family that put Yahweh on the map as a god.

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Before them, yahwas just one more storm God worshiped by

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the ancient Judaeans and the ancient Israelites and Samaritans. So

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the ironies just start dog by them so fast. Jayhu,

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who wiped them all out, killed them in the Bible.

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This he's God's guy, He's God's hero doing all this.

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In real life, he was one of the golden calf

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worshipers at Shiloh. That was his So he was a heretic.

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So the irony that these guys hundreds of years at

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least three hundred years later writing this story, are making

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the people who put Yahweh on the map heretics, murderers,

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bad guys, and their killer held up as God's anointed

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when he was in fact a heretic himself. It's it's

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mind blowing.

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Speaker 4: Well, when you say, in real life, how do you

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verify that? Are there rather historical records that document the

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character of Jezebel.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, unlike most like ninety nine of everybody in the

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Old Testament and of everybody we know and love from

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Sunday School, Jezebel was a real person. And we have

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Greek sources for her. We know her family, and we

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know who she was married into. We have Assyrian records

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about them and about the the guy who wiped out

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their whole line. What her real what she was real

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like as a person, will never know that because they

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don't tell her story from her point of view. They

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tell it from their point of view. And to them,

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the biggest crime was that they were so successful, because

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in real life they would have loved somebody who stood

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for yahweh as much as that family did.

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Speaker 3: And in the first the first five sections, we take

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five characters of women from the Bible and we have

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them tell their story in.

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Speaker 5: Their own voice.

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Speaker 3: So we have Jezebel introduced as this fifteen year old

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getting sent off to marry a king in a different kingdom,

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and her whole story from there all told in her voice,

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and then we go on and do a commentary about

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all of the parts of that story so we can

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wear a whole different character. Like all the things, all

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the facts, still happen, but the how and the why

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in the way are different.

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Speaker 4: Well, I noticed you did it with Adam and Eve

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write off the bat, so clever to say, rather than

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read chapter and verse, we're going to tell the story

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and we're going to really humanize it and contextualize it

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and paint a three D verbal picture. And to do

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that with these characters is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we were really faithful to telling

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the story as it is in the Bible. We didn't

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go off on preagey tangents, but we did make the

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switch of telling it from her point of view and

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having the character tell us her story.

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Speaker 4: I love the Genesis account where they're hiding from God

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in shame God's wander around the garden like he's not

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on to care. Wait a minute, I thought God could

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see everything into it. How do you hide from God?

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I don't understand that. It just makes no sense to me.

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Delilah was another sort of Old Testament villain in a

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lot of ways. Caros, I'll start with you tell me

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about Delilah.

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Speaker 3: Oh, well, we have Delilah meeting Samson at at the fair.

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So well, they're sitt in the marketplace and she's with

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her her girlfriends, and she's looking at this hot guy

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and she's going, yeah, I.

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Speaker 5: Know he's a bad dude. I think I can wrap

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am out.

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Speaker 4: She likes the bad boys.

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Speaker 5: He likes the bad boys.

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Speaker 3: So she starts walking across towards him, and he sees

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her coming and he's looking at her like, oh, yeah, honey,

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I think so. And so it's just all effects of

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the you know, like that when they kill him and

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all the things they do to him and everything, but

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it's all told from her perspective. And so she's having

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fun with this story and all those times where where

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they tell her to find out how to tie them

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up with things that he can't break out of, and

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and we have like sex gigs like where they're times

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and stuff like it's different.

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Speaker 4: It's old Testament sex tape. These are words I never

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would have put in the same sentence myself. Hey, if

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you want to jump on here, I was going to say,

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do you want to jump on Delilah? Let me rephrase it.

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Would you like to talk about Delilah from your perspective?

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Speaker 2: We don't just tell the story. I mean we do

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tell the story, and that's super fun, but then we

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give commentary after it. It's like, yeahs are always saying, oh,

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you're taking out of context. Oh well, let's give the

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context then, and when you do, you find that the

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story is even worse than we already think. I mean,

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we all sort of know that the Bible's misogynistic, we

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all sort of know that the Bible puts women down.

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But when you actually do a little bit of a

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deeper dive into just how these stories were written, why

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they're written, and what's happening, you know, in the context

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of these stories, it's even worse. It's even worse. And

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that's true whether you're talking about Old Testament or are

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they're talking about the New Testament.

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Speaker 4: More on some of the lesser known women in the

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Old Testament, and then we got to get into the

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New Testament with Jesus and Paul and some of the

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tragic attitudes and writings about women. I will continue with

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my special guest next next up on the conference Roster Nashville, Tennessee.

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It is Nanocon. What a lineup for that. Matt de

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la Hunty promised Backland Hemmet, Metta, Glenda Jordan, Forrest Valkei,

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and so many others. Also in August, the World Humanist

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Congress Baja con those are both in Canada. The Unholy

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Trinity Reunion that's in Fort Worth, Texas the last Saturday

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in August. The FFRF National Convention in Milwaukee October sixteenth

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through the eighteenth, and then Rocket City Reason Huntsville, Alabama,

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October twenty third through the twenty fifth. Details links everything

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you need the Thinkingatheist dot com slash events. Authors of

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the book clearly written by boys Keris Berkowski and Dave Fitzgerald.

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You got a couple of illustrators. You want to introduce

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your illustrators for me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One of them is David Hayward, who's a cartoonist

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and a lot of the people that are on this,

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they're watching you right now. I might actually know him

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because he's called the Naked Pastor. He used to be

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a minister and now he does cartoons and they're they're

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sort of religious themed and with things that we take

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two pages to describe, he can put in one cartoon

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and there it is, right in your face.

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Speaker 2: And he was so on board right from the get go,

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sin As we told him aout the project. He was, Yeah,

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the board and his cartoon just nail it. I mean

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so many stuff was just absolutely perfect.

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Speaker 4: Well, Hayward's interesting to me, right because he's a Christian, right.

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Speaker 2: It was, he's a deconstructing Christian. If not you fully

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because I was going.

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Speaker 4: To say, cartoons go hard at the Bible, the foundational

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text of Christianity, and he's given shit to the Bible

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all the time, and I thought, this is this is

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a weird believer.

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Speaker 2: Weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very pro LGBT and his Jesus is very

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pro LGBT, and that's that's kind of cool to see

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that happen.

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Speaker 4: I mean I like him, I really do admire and admirers.

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Speaker 3: Okay good yeah, yeah yeah. As soon as we told

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him about it, he was right on board. So we've

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got sixty five of his cartoons in the book.

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Speaker 4: And you're second illustrator, Kathleen or kat Hardy.

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Speaker 3: The second illustrator is a female, and she has drawn

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portraits of the seven I guess women that we really

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talk about the five at the beginning that we tell

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their story and then Mary both Mary's very magnalate and

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married mother of Jesus, so we would give her a topic,

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like we asked her to do a Mary mother Mary,

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and so she sent us one usual you know Mary

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with the downcast eyes or you know, like the usual sweet,

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modest Mary. And we said no, no, no, no, no, no no.

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We told her what else to do. So she did this,

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and yeah, that's much better.

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Speaker 5: She's got to be looking up.

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Speaker 4: A So how many Mary's are there in the New ten?

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There's Magdalene, and then there's the other Mary and the Mary.

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Matter of mean, how many Marys am I talking about? Here?

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Speaker 2: We focus on two of them, Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene,

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but even though there are multiple versions of those two

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women as well. And it's it's ironic because in a

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way we have many Mary's, in another way, we have

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almost no Mary of any of them. If we didn't

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have the Book of John, we wouldn't know anything about

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Mary Magdalen really. If we didn't have the Book of Luke,

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we wouldn't know anything really about the Virgin Mary. It's

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it's so amazing that we've got these tiny little slivers

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in the Bible, and yet it's blown up since to become,

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you know, a whole cot industry of Mary Magdalene and uh,

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the Da Vinci code, all that stuff, you know it.

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It was like the legend, the medieval legends of Mary

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Magdalene just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, bigger.

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Speaker 3: And we talk about the fact that the real Mary Mage,

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if it was a real, real anything in there. Mary

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Magdalen was a disciple, and she was a She gave

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them money, she helped them, she did all this kind

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of stuff. And then this one pope gets confused and

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configures he's he conflates her with the woman the sinner,

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you know whatever, and and from then on she becomes, uh,

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this despicable Harlotte who's.

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Speaker 5: Trying to be forgiven and just totally messes her up.

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And so we talk a lot about that.

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Speaker 4: So back to the Old Testament. Everybody knows there's a

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book of Ruth. Nobody knows anything about Ruth like Hell

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is Ruth.

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Speaker 3: Oh we have great But with that, she tells her

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own story too, and so okay, she's doing the with

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it thou goist and she's so sweet and innocent and everything.

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And we talk in the commentary, we talk about, well,

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what's really going on in the country at that time

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and how would she have been treated after marrying somebody

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from outside of her land and now he's dead and

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she doesn't have a man to look after her.

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Speaker 5: So Mary Naomi wants to go away, so she wants

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to go with her because what the heck guess is

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she gonna do?

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Speaker 3: And then we get her back in Judea and she

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meets Boaz in the grain field, right, and she goes

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back and tells Naomi, and Naoi gives her this sole planable,

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this is what you're gonna do. Hun You can get

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all dressed up in your best stop it puts a

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perfume one you're gonna sneak over there in the middle

404
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of the night. And so we talk about all that,

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and that's a story you don't usually hear very often.

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So and we give her agency like she's doing this

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on purpose because she wants to preserve her life and

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find somebody will take care of her and Naomi. And

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then at the very end, after she has the baby

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and marries him and everything that she has the baby,

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they take the baby and they give it to Naomi

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and they say, oh, Naomi, is that a child? And

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it's so like the Handmaid's Tale, like it's just you

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can't you can't miss it. It's great, Like, yeah, we

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have fun with that one too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is another case where the context really blows, uh

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blows your mind. So we blow your mind twice with

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every single character.

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Speaker 4: Does remind me I'm not as familiar with Ruth in

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the Old Testament? Is she is that story played like

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she's sort of a hero of the faith or does

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it go there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And ironically, if it had been a moad Bite

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girl saying to a Jewish girl saying to her Mobiite

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mother in law, oh, your people will be my people,

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your gods will be my gods, you know, we would

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hate her. She'd be a filthy idolatry. But yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: Then we've got Esther, who eventually would become the queen

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of Persia. I don't know if there was a real

430
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Esther or not. I'm just familiar with the biblical Esther.

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Speaker 2: Story though a great story. And we talked, and that's

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another thing we do, is we talk about how we

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know these stories are just made up BS stories and

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not based on real people. And there's lots of reasons,

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there's lots of giveaways that do that, and and so

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we don't just talk about the origins of them, but

437
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we talked about how they were interpreted later and how

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Perham came out of that, and there's just so much

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more behind all these stories that's fun to get into.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, how many of these, like the christ

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myth et cetera, were borrowed from other or surrounding mythologies.

442
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A bunch of them, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I keep going

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back to is one of the reasons I like Jessicbel

445
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so much, not her real name, but that character so much,

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is that she's one of the very very few people

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in the entire Old Testament who's a real person and

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that we actually have historical sources for, and we know

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who her niece was, and you know these things, and

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it's it's wild to me how many of them are

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just not And this is how we know the story

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of Ruth is made up. This is how we know

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the story of Esther is made up. It's just one

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thing after another.

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Speaker 3: And so the book is in three sections. The first

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section is five stories of five important women in the Bible,

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told from their perspective, and then the commentary that goes

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with them. Then there's a great Then there are a

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bunch of topics like menopaus and like menstruation, which is

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you know, like unclean, unclean, all that stuff.

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Speaker 4: Depart the camp for seven days until now stop bleeding

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it and then thou might return kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: And a big section on virginity, because the virginity, the

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whole thing about making virginity such a big deal leads

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to so many things like making young girls the one

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that you want to go after, which then we kind

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of kind of tie it into the Epstein wells and

468
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we did, you know, like there's a whole lot of

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stuff in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's some very interesting things when you get

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into the nitty gritty of what the Bible says, who

472
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:07,720
the Bible says you can have sex with, and who

473
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:10,960
you can't, but mostly who you can have sex with.

474
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,680
There's some really jaw dropping moments in that chapter.

475
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 4: Without being too graphic. I mean, I always it has

476
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,039
to be asked, so I will ask the question. But

477
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:24,759
if god soldiers go in and they kill the Midianites

478
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,640
and capture the virgin girls, and if you're going to

479
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,839
take a woman and test her for her virginity, how's

480
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,279
that done? In the Old Testament times? I mean, it's

481
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:37,519
now my brain is going to some very dark places.

482
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,880
Does anybody else ask those questions?

483
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: Book? Is it provokes all these conversations, that provokes all

484
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,200
these questions. That's what we're really loving about it from

485
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,720
the reaction of the people who've read it so far.

486
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:54,039
Speaker 3: Right, and we even talk about how there's a kind

487
00:25:54,039 --> 00:25:56,759
of surgery you can have done now in the modern

488
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:00,200
world that rebuilds the hymen, so you can conte that

489
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,319
you were a virgin, like I mean, we talked about

490
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,079
how that's being done in various countries, and we've met

491
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:08,799
female doctors talking about that stuff.

492
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: Now we go right into it, we do.

493
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 4: You've got a chapter in your book called your Hymen

494
00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:16,440
or Your Life, right.

495
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, because why if you didn't bleed on your wedding

496
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,319
night and there weren't signs of blood on the sheets,

497
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,000
then you got stone to death.

498
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,079
Speaker 4: Let's come back to clearly written by boys. I'm reversing

499
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:32,359
in my brain the King Solomon scenario. Right, So let's

500
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,640
say it was Ruth or Naomi or you know, one

501
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,000
of the Mary's or whatever that had seven hundred spouses

502
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,799
and three hundred male concubines. How would that have gone

503
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:48,400
over in the older New Testament, right.

504
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,319
Speaker 2: And there's so many things like that that they just

505
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,160
throw it out and we just we've heard it all

506
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,039
our lives, so we don't think about it. But when

507
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:57,440
you stop and think about it, well, if this is

508
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,920
the other way around, it changes their perspective.

509
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,079
Speaker 4: Well, Karis, if I'm talking to someone who is talking,

510
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,799
I mean, let's get into the this relates to today

511
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:11,720
as we see the people that are going after LGBT marriage,

512
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,160
et cetera, and they're saying one man, one woman biblical marriage,

513
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,920
and these same people are okay with seven hundred wives

514
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,599
and three hundred concubines, Keras, how do you think they

515
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,400
get around that?

516
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 3: Well, they like what they like. They just take it

517
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,880
from what they want, just like the whole Bible's written

518
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,680
by guys who wanted to make things be the way.

519
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:35,759
Speaker 5: They want them to be. So yeah, it's really not We've.

520
00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:37,759
Speaker 3: Got a section and I was just trying to find

521
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:42,200
the cartoon it shows my vout marriage.

522
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,599
Speaker 4: With the Biblical I've got one illustration queued up and

523
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,799
it's got this. It's got a man sitting on what

524
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:52,039
looks like a throne with a crown, and he's surrounded

525
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:57,039
by hot babes, and Christians are okay with that. They're like, ah, hey,

526
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:02,160
King Solomon, what an admirable figures? And then the other

527
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:05,240
Then I come back to more logistics, Well, how do

528
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:08,279
you how do you deal with one thousand, seven hundred

529
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:11,440
wives and three You wouldn't need an Excel spreadsheet to

530
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:13,319
keep up with your own relationships?

531
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 3: Is all a really nice section about when the queen esther,

532
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,279
when she gets chosen to be one of the concubines

533
00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:22,960
before she becomes the queen, and we describe what that

534
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,440
would have been like, like what the what the concubine

535
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,160
facilities were for the king?

536
00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 5: It's yeah, we we have a lot of fun with

537
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,880
all these topics.

538
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 2: It's a fun book. It takes you places you didn't

539
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,559
know you were going to go.

540
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,799
Speaker 4: So, when we talk about rape culture in the Bible outright,

541
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:44,720
but especially in the ot, is it true that the

542
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:48,480
rape of a woman was not considered as much a

543
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:52,319
violation of the woman but a property crime against a man.

544
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: Goes right, and you could pay the father some money

545
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,680
because you've rapped his daughter, and he could accept that money,

546
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,480
and then she would have to marry him and live

547
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:08,440
with this rapist and you know, the father could say, yeah,

548
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,079
that's fine and let that happen, or he could say, no,

549
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,799
you don't have to marry him, but the guy still

550
00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:14,960
has to pay him money.

551
00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:19,559
Speaker 2: But her opinion has no part happen to do with it,

552
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,000
however whatsoever.

553
00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: I have this trick that I occasionally use. Some people

554
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680
agree with that, some people don't. But I get into

555
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:30,640
the kidnapping of the virgins, and you can keep her

556
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,759
for thirty days and change your appearance, and if she

557
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,359
doesn't please you, you can release her like a straight cat.

558
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,599
And the buying and selling of women, how they're devalued

559
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,279
by half, and the bitter water test, where if she's

560
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,880
suspected of adultery, you drink the thing. And I always

561
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:49,839
I start with I read these horrible things in the Quran.

562
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:54,079
Islam is such a barbaric religion, and the Christians like,

563
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,000
this is horrific? How can anyone believe this? And then

564
00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,319
I pull the rug out from underneath him. Some people

565
00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:02,680
think that's an a dishonest and underhanded approach. It may be,

566
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:03,559
but I do it.

567
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:10,319
Speaker 2: I do so yes, what they instantly do, it's like, oh, wait, oh,

568
00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:14,039
you're taking that seth oh it's really beautiful and wonderful, or.

569
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: Even more alarming, is divine command theory or vertical morality? Well,

570
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,319
if God wants it that way, then it becomes moral

571
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,240
by default, which is terrifying.

572
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:24,319
Speaker 3: We talk about the fact that this has led to

573
00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:27,160
even modern like in modern times, and I think it

574
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,359
was in the sixties in Italy you could still do

575
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,200
rape marriage like you could rape a girl. And we

576
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:36,839
talked about a specific case and give the chapter in

577
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,720
verson names of the newspapers have talked about it, even

578
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,519
where this guy captured a girl out of her house

579
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,440
and raped her, took her away with her his buddies

580
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,720
for a while, and then let her go back and

581
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,759
went to the father and said I want to marry her,

582
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:53,119
and she was supposed to marry him, and that was

583
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,400
the law of the land at the time.

584
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,839
Speaker 2: She was the first one to say, no, that's not

585
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:57,400
going to happen.

586
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:01,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, you don't say that in a world of men,

587
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,559
in a book written by boys, do you?

588
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: So?

589
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:05,839
Speaker 4: If I move out of the books of the Old

590
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,759
Testament into the news, one of the arguments from at

591
00:31:08,839 --> 00:31:12,119
least the casual Christian is well, yeah, God was kind

592
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:16,079
of a barbaric nasty, judgmental, temperamental asshole back then. But

593
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,319
Jesus is love and light. New Testament.

594
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, so horrible Old Testament stuff. Now we have the

595
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:23,880
New Testament.

596
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 4: Yay, Jesus, How do you address that? How do you

597
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:30,559
Jesus loves everybody, and he honors women in the NT.

598
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,640
How do you respond.

599
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 2: He doesn't even honor women by ancient standards, and ancient

600
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200
centers are not exactly a high bar. But there are

601
00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:44,119
pagan and foreign religions that do a better job of

602
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,279
treating women than Jesus does.

603
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,839
Speaker 4: Well. I mean, I know he compared the gentile woman

604
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:51,279
to the dog, and I want to say it was

605
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:54,519
Mark or is one of the gospel obviously one of

606
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:57,680
the gospels. But you know he and he treated his

607
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,359
own mother pretty poorly, as I remember, didn't Caros.

608
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 5: Yeah he did.

609
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he distired a couple of times. And we've got

610
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,920
a section in there that's like a cosmo quiz, and

611
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,920
it's called these Jesus a bad boyfriend, And we take

612
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,200
all these different questions and answer them based on what

613
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,599
it says in the Bible. And I know, I had

614
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,759
a couple of Christian friends read the book and they

615
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:22,200
were fine with everything up until then they said, Oh,

616
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,000
it's educational and it's funny, it's well written, and it's

617
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:27,000
fun and I like the cartoons and everything got to

618
00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:33,240
Jesus and it was like, oh, no, I can't say this, no, no, sorry,

619
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:34,200
I had to stop reading.

620
00:32:34,599 --> 00:32:38,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why we want you to give this

621
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:41,680
to your Christian women friends. Buy this book for them,

622
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,880
because yeah, everyone is willing to, you know, take a

623
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,839
pass on the Old Testament. But as soon as you

624
00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:51,640
start pointing out how Jesus is not that great either, boom,

625
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:53,319
that's a whole different.

626
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 4: I mean Paul Paul's famous approach to women throughout the

627
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,720
What thirteen book that he had penned. When he references women,

628
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,960
it's usually go home, tell your husband. You don't have

629
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,000
the authority to open your mouth in church. I mean,

630
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,319
Paul was not a fan of females.

631
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: Knew that's a whole different rabbit hole we could go down.

632
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:17,680
I will say in his defense, the most misogynistic things

633
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,799
attributed Paul come from forgers in his name, like Titus

634
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:25,240
first and second Timothy. But he's wildly indifferent to the

635
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,799
thought of sleeping with women. And he says, I don't

636
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,480
understand why all men can't be like me, perfectly able

637
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:34,680
to withstand the temptation of women, you know, while he's

638
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960
gallivanting with his buddy Barnabas and his boy toy Timothy.

639
00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:42,279
Speaker 4: And yeah, short break, and we will continue this conversation

640
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:52,920
in just a second. Talking here with my very special guest,

641
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,119
Dave Fitzgerald and Karis Burgkowski, authors or co authors of

642
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,160
the new book Clearly Written by Boys's Guide to the Bible,

643
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,720
which is linked in the description box. Both of you

644
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:06,559
took me back in the book. You took me back

645
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:10,000
to my high school days of true love weights and

646
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,599
abstinence pledges. And I remember there was one I had

647
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:21,280
a friend and their parents said, if you will abstain

648
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,920
from sex until marriage, we have like in escrow. And

649
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,800
this sounds made up. It it's true five hundred bucks,

650
00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:31,360
which was a lot of money anyway, but it's really

651
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,079
a lot of money. Back in nineteen eighty three. We

652
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:37,320
have five hundred dollars that we'll just give you if

653
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:41,079
you promise us and you keep that promise. And I

654
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:48,519
thought that's jacked up, Like that's jacked up, guys, But

655
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:51,119
you get keros old pinball to you purity culture. In

656
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,400
the book, tell Me where you go with this?

657
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about the purity balls and the purity

658
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:57,800
the whole purity culture.

659
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: You got to describe a purity ball because there will

660
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,679
be a few new listeners who haven't heard us talk

661
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:03,039
about it.

662
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:06,119
Speaker 3: Where the father and the daughter go to this ball

663
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:09,280
and they're all dressed up like they're going to a

664
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,599
wedding practically, and she promises not to have sex and

665
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,159
puts already gives her a ring and like gets like

666
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,760
he's her boyfriend for till she's old enough to get married,

667
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,400
and oh my god, it's really creepy.

668
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,079
Speaker 4: If you want to see examples of this, go to

669
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:30,119
YouTube and type in my name is Seth Andrews, and

670
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:35,920
then a speech called God likes to watch because let's

671
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,880
face it, biblical marriage is always a threesome, right, and

672
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,880
you and your partner and God is overseeing, so it's

673
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:47,679
always a threesome. But I show examples of fathers who

674
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,920
are telling their very young daughters that you will I

675
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,719
will be your boyfriend until you get married, and in

676
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,800
the purity ceremony, creepy like eleven year old girls in

677
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,480
a wedding gown. Sometimes looking up before these big, looming,

678
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:04,480
giant crosses and kneeling down and writing their names on

679
00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:07,000
these pledges. And they've got rings with scriptures on them.

680
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:11,280
And it's freaking culty. It's very culty. And in the book,

681
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,159
purity culture is rooted in actual verses of scripture. I mean,

682
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,639
these fathers and pastors and guardian mothers, whoever can go

683
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,760
back chapter and verse right.

684
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, And because David's been working with those kinds

685
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,280
of things in all of his other books, Like every

686
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:32,719
thing we say has a Bible verse, like you can

687
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,119
look it up in your Bible, Like pretty much everything

688
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,000
is backed up, and we give them lots of tools.

689
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,639
And then at the end we have a whole section

690
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:43,079
for book clubs, like get your friends together and have

691
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,440
a book club, and here's the questions you can ask

692
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,280
and things you can look up and yeah.

693
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, one thing I really appreciate is that you

694
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,320
really go far beyond the surface again of what this

695
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,440
audience is going to know. Whether it's the bitter Water

696
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:00,639
test or slavery or I don't know, the treatment of

697
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:04,039
women by Jesus. These are things that are often well known.

698
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,239
You guys go a lot deeper so as you were

699
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,360
doing your research, I mean, give me something that surprised you,

700
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:12,840
something that maybe you didn't even know starting the journey.

701
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,280
Was there something where you're like, oh, like shit, this

702
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,360
is crazy, anything popped to your mind.

703
00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: I mean, there were several that like, wow, it's even

704
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,000
worse than we thought, especially when you get through the

705
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:30,079
context behind these stories. You Yeah, things get really disturbing

706
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:32,519
really fast. And then there's just things that are happening now,

707
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:36,119
like female circumcision that's just so horrific we can barely

708
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:39,119
even stand to think about it. Well, there were some,

709
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,840
there were some surprisingly optimistic things we came across too,

710
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:49,360
And that's that Now, since the pandemic, since this whole

711
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,079
the last twenty years or so of Christian evangel evangelism

712
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:59,159
becoming so misogynistic, openly misogynistic, that for the first time

713
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:06,079
in recorded four decades of Christian trend tracking, there are

714
00:38:06,199 --> 00:38:10,480
more men in the pews than women women are. They're

715
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:13,800
not protesting, they're not making a fuss. They're just Irish exiting.

716
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,119
They're just we're done.

717
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 4: In Irish exiting.

718
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: They're just gone. And now there groups like the Barnet

719
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,679
Group that track they make their living tracking Christian trends.

720
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:30,920
They've never seen anything like it in all the years

721
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,039
they've been keeping track.

722
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:34,599
Speaker 4: I'm sure. I'm sure. I literally see a line in

723
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:36,719
my brain, a line of women walking out of the

724
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,519
Southern Baptist Convention that still thinks it's the year eleven.

725
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,719
By the way, Yeah, you know, I Caris, you've been

726
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,280
watching what's going on with the SBC and all of these,

727
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:50,480
Like I tended to think that even even mainstream Christianity

728
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:52,679
was kind of over it, like we're going to get

729
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,920
rid of all this other stuff and we're going to evolve. No,

730
00:38:56,079 --> 00:38:59,039
there's a whole section that's going back. They literally want

731
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,719
some sort of a gender feudalism, right, yeah, phrase, I.

732
00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: Wish we'd put that in a book.

733
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 4: You're welcome, I'm a giver project.

734
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: They want to take a loans rate to vote, like

735
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:14,800
one vote for household.

736
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: And then we saw it was at a Turning Point

737
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,360
USA event where there was a group full of women

738
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,639
and they were like saying, I'm good with it. The

739
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,960
slaves are celebrating their chains. Karas. So you're a woman,

740
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:31,400
does how does a woman go into the auditorium and

741
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,159
say less liberty for me? Yay?

742
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 5: What do you think is happening there rainwashing?

743
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,119
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, literally, we were talking to Brady Goodwin, who

744
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:48,280
is a black ex Christian recording artist now turned atheist.

745
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:52,159
And it's the parallels between the way the Bible treats

746
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,559
women and the way the racism and the sexism of

747
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:58,400
the Bible kind of go hand in hand. And like

748
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,960
the slave sermons. Jeremiah Kamara, who did that amazing book

749
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:09,440
movie Contradiction and amazing books on slave sermons, they are

750
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,920
so indoctrinated to be slaves, and all Christianity is meant

751
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,000
to be slave. The very fact that we hold our

752
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:20,639
hands like that the way a slave gets his wristbound.

753
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: You know.

754
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: Dan Barker's pointed that out these are all this is

755
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:31,440
a slave religion, and and it's not black people, it's everybody.

756
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:35,440
Everybody is a slave in this religion. Some have managed

757
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,559
to become on top of the slave pile and make

758
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:41,519
lots of money of it and lots of power, but

759
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:42,639
they're all still slaves.

760
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,679
Speaker 4: Kris, would you have an extra thought? I heard you

761
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,199
jump in.

762
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:47,639
Speaker 5: I can't even remember what I was going to say.

763
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,159
Speaker 4: I do the same thing. Well, I noticed, like this

764
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,480
proof I've read the book Everybody, but you reference the

765
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,480
Civil War era civil rights activist Frederick Douglass, who was

766
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:02,360
an amazing human rights activist in regard to slavery, and

767
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,480
Douglas's words really resonates all these many many years later,

768
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:06,960
don't they.

769
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,039
Speaker 2: Basically you said, of all the slave owners, the ones

770
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:15,920
that we most feared were the religious slaveholders, because they

771
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,320
were the worst, the most vicious, and they slept easy

772
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,480
at night knowing that they were living a righteous life

773
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:22,239
for it.

774
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, as the Bible tells them, they can beat their

775
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,119
slaves and how to beat them and what to do

776
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:27,400
with them.

777
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:31,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, God wills it has been the biggest freaking cop

778
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:34,840
out in history, has it not. Women can't vote during

779
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,639
the suffrage. You know, they're protesting God wills it. The

780
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:41,760
ownership of people LGBT people. You know, it's God's idea,

781
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,639
not mine, not my problem. I always think of that

782
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:45,079
Susan B.

783
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:49,639
Speaker 2: Anthony quote when they're having babies numbersticker. I said it,

784
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:51,039
God believes it. That settles it.

785
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 4: I think Susan B. Anthony was quoted as saying, I

786
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,360
distrust when someone tells me what God wants because it

787
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,679
usually coincides with what they want. I totally paraphrase that.

788
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:02,519
Any final thoughts about the book before I let you

789
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:06,800
two beautiful people go, I'll start with you, caris you

790
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,199
want to do an elevator picture? Anything I've missed.

791
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,639
Speaker 3: I just think that the book is worth reading just

792
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:17,360
because it's fun to read. It's written in a conversational,

793
00:42:17,559 --> 00:42:21,039
fun kind of a way. You learn a lot, but

794
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:24,039
you don't feel like you're in class like you learn it.

795
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,480
Some of it will make you laugh, some of it'll

796
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,920
make you cry, some it'll make you really really pissed off,

797
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,880
because some of our readers have told us that they

798
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,000
just had to slam the bookshut and sit there for

799
00:42:33,039 --> 00:42:36,039
an hour before they could go on and read some more.

800
00:42:36,639 --> 00:42:39,000
So read it because it's going to be an experience

801
00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:41,079
to read it, like you'll learn stuff.

802
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 5: But read it because you're going to enjoy reading it.

803
00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: David, I would like to say, speaking as a man,

804
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:49,760
even though I'm half mother on my mom a half

805
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,599
woman on my mom's side, this is not a book

806
00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:56,239
for women. It's a book for men. It's a book

807
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,480
for atheists, it's a book for Christians, it's a book

808
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,480
for everybody, because at the end of the day, it

809
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,000
points it's it's talking about how the Bible misuses women.

810
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:11,239
But where it miss uses women today, it misses men tomorrow.

811
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:15,320
You're next. As long as you let the Bible do

812
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,199
this to women, or to gay people, or to trans people,

813
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,280
or to black people, whatever you are, you're also in

814
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,960
those crosshairs. No.

815
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the main thing. There's no such thing

816
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,760
as the word of God. And don't let anybody tell

817
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,960
you this is God's word.

818
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 4: Just what that makes me want to buy copies and

819
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:39,599
send one to Joyce Meyer, Paula White, Beth Moore, Victoria Ostein.

820
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,639
Speaker 2: And that's all your Christian women friends, all your Christian

821
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:43,119
men friends.

822
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,519
Speaker 4: I'm sending it to you in love, in the Love

823
00:43:46,559 --> 00:43:49,280
of Jesus, In the Love of Jesus.

824
00:43:49,159 --> 00:43:51,119
Speaker 2: Yours in Christ, Seth Andrews.

825
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,039
Speaker 4: Harris Burkowski David Fitzgerald, co authors of the new book

826
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,559
Clearly Written by Boys, A Woman's Guide to the Bible,

827
00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:02,800
which I will link. You got what paperback, hardcover, kendall audio.

828
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,159
You guys do audio on that, you do the whole thing.

829
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,599
Speaker 2: Audio wills come when we can make that happen. Okay, Wow,

830
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:12,480
it's gonna be paperback and audio.

831
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,199
Speaker 3: Paperback and ebook, sorry, book, but audio will come and

832
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,719
it's going to be fun too, because we're going to

833
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,719
make it more like a radio play with each of

834
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,199
these women talking in different voices and stuff like that.

835
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 4: I love it. I love it like a like an

836
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,559
audio stage play. That's going to be fun. Okay, well

837
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,519
linked in the description box. Congrats. I know this has

838
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,280
been a labor of love a long time coming, and

839
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,840
I'm telling everybody it's good and it's a little different

840
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,440
than you think it's It goes beyond what an educated

841
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,360
person even about the Bible, will expect, and I think

842
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,719
it might help you in conversations you have about the

843
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,679
Bible's approach to both men and women. Thank you both

844
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,079
for talking to me today. Good to see you, Thank.

845
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 5: You very much.

846
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Sam, and we'll see it baha,

847
00:44:58,519 --> 00:44:59,159
yes see you.

848
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:05,559
Speaker 4: Bahaka in August, Sarnia, Ontario, Bahcoon dot com. An amazing conference.

849
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,159
Thanks again, guys.

850
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 5: Thank you, thanks all.

851
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:12,559
Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a

852
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:16,239
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853
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,960
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854
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,639
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855
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:30,880
and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com