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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to part two of our coverage about the

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<v Speaker 1>murder of David Bacon. Let's dive right back in. It

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<v Speaker 1>soon became obvious that David had a habit of keeping

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<v Speaker 1>secrets from Greta because they found a diary in his

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<v Speaker 1>bedroom which had been written entirely in some sort of

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<v Speaker 1>secret code. And this is one of those things that

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<v Speaker 1>sounds fabricated but is actually one hundred percent true, because

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<v Speaker 1>it was reported on in the newspapers during this time period,

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<v Speaker 1>and when they asked Gretta about it, she said that

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<v Speaker 1>she knew this diary existed, but David never allowed her

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<v Speaker 1>to read it. And apparently she was able to help

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<v Speaker 1>police decipher some of the coded material inside the diary,

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<v Speaker 1>and most of it turned out to be harmless. It

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<v Speaker 1>was like names and phone numbers for a number of

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<v Speaker 1>their friends and acquaintances, whom Greta already knew about. But

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<v Speaker 1>there were also some coded portions of the diary where

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<v Speaker 1>Greta was unable to provide any assistance and were unable

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<v Speaker 1>to decode it, and the police actually went to the

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<v Speaker 1>trouble of hiring cipher experts to try to decode certain

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<v Speaker 1>sections of the diary. It's kind of like the Zodiac letters,

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<v Speaker 1>Like it seems like a really high profile crime, but

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<v Speaker 1>they were unsuccessful and there are sections in that diary

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<v Speaker 1>where they were unable to find out what exactly David

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<v Speaker 1>was writing. But I kind of wish that this diary

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<v Speaker 1>was available to the public because I would love to

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<v Speaker 1>see amateur sluice try to decode it today like they

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<v Speaker 1>do with the Zodiac letters.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a fascinating element. Like when you first said it,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, is this one of the fabrications that

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<v Speaker 2>was dropped in at a later date. But to know

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<v Speaker 2>that he went out of his way to write in

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<v Speaker 2>a diary and to develop a code so that his

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<v Speaker 2>wife wouldn't know what he was up to, and it

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<v Speaker 2>just opens up the door for so many different possible abilities.

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<v Speaker 2>Was he into, like you'd mentioned, if there was a

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<v Speaker 2>man and a woman. Was he into being a third

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<v Speaker 2>with other couples? Was it just meeting up with other men,

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<v Speaker 2>because I mean, he was married to Greta, so maybe

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't feel the need to meet up with women,

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<v Speaker 2>and he had he liked both men and women. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not sure. Obviously, only David is the one who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to know that for sure, and David has passed away,

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<v Speaker 2>but we can just go based on everything that's been

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<v Speaker 2>written here. I feel like this has some elements of

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<v Speaker 2>the staircase with Michael right.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yes, yeah, that would make sense to me. And

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<v Speaker 1>it is kind of interesting that he pretty much coded

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<v Speaker 1>everything in the diary and some of it just turned

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<v Speaker 1>out to be like regular information, like the contact information

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<v Speaker 1>for his friends. But maybe he was misdirection where he thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if I code everything, then there's less of a chance

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<v Speaker 1>that Greta is going to find it to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to see what kind of contents I have in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're just casting a wide net that way, and

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<v Speaker 2>you're making it a lot harder for whomever it is

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to pin point what information is worth

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<v Speaker 2>trying to decode.

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<v Speaker 1>So another bizarre clue was a key that was found

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<v Speaker 1>in David's wallet, which did not belong to his home

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<v Speaker 1>and wound up being matched to a studio apartment that

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<v Speaker 1>David had rented inside a house in a Laurel Canyon. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>another secret you're throwing your hands up here. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is another one that's one hundred percent real. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>fabricated and it was only ten minutes away from David's house,

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<v Speaker 1>and he had rented it only twelve days before he

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<v Speaker 1>was murdered. Police found out that the house itself was

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<v Speaker 1>owned by a retired physician named Charles Hendrix, who interacted

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<v Speaker 1>with David, who told him that he was renting it

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<v Speaker 1>for a quote unquote friend. Yeah, Jules is giving that

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<v Speaker 1>look here, that sounds pretty cryptic. Greta said that she

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<v Speaker 1>was aware that this apartment existed, as he told her

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<v Speaker 1>it was for a gardener he was planning to hire

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<v Speaker 1>to do some work at the house. But Greta still

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<v Speaker 1>found this a little strange because they had a trailer

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<v Speaker 1>on their property, which she felt would have been adequate

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<v Speaker 1>living corridors for a gardener. So she's wondering, why is

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<v Speaker 1>he renting this fanc apartment located ten miles from her house,

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<v Speaker 1>And to make things even stranger, when the police searched

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<v Speaker 1>the apartment, they found a lot of evidence to suggest

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<v Speaker 1>that a woman had been living there, because they found

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<v Speaker 1>three empty women's purses, the torn sleeve of a woman's

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<v Speaker 1>blouse inside a drawer, and several women's cigarette holders. So

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<v Speaker 1>it did not sound like he was renting it just

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<v Speaker 1>for a nail gardener.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, this is like David Bacon's booty bungalow. This is

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<v Speaker 2>really interesting. So again, he's subverting what our expectations are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be thus far. Because he's been seen with

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<v Speaker 2>a man, it's easy to assume that that is what

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<v Speaker 2>he with regards to a relationship, that he could be

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<v Speaker 2>pursuing sexual or otherwise. It seems the most logical explanation

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<v Speaker 2>since he has Greta. But apparently if David isn't going

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<v Speaker 2>to discriminate here, this sounds like a full on affair.

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<v Speaker 2>Like if you are going to pay for somebody to

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<v Speaker 2>live somewhere, and not only do they have just like

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<v Speaker 2>a toothbrush there, they've got multiple empt he purses. It

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like somebody's living a whole life there. So that

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<v Speaker 2>would imply a certain level of closeness, would it not?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. Yeah. That's why I find it incredible

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<v Speaker 1>that it was only rented twelve days beforehand, because, as

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about, there seemed to be a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of activity going on in that apartment during that

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<v Speaker 1>twelve day window. But the timing would make sense because

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<v Speaker 1>Greta is reaching the stage in her pregnancy where she's

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<v Speaker 1>not in the mood to have sex. So I could

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<v Speaker 1>see David thinking to himself, I need to get my

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<v Speaker 1>sexual activity, so I'm going to rent this apartment and

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<v Speaker 1>then use it for a place to meet up with

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<v Speaker 1>people secretly in order to have sex.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm wondering how easy it was to meet women,

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<v Speaker 2>being that he had just come off doing the Masked

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<v Speaker 2>Marvel and he'd just been cast in another movie, so

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<v Speaker 2>it seemed like David was on the up and coming trajectory.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm wondering how many women would have been interested

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<v Speaker 2>in him based on that. And do you have any

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<v Speaker 2>photos of him? Like if I google him, can I

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<v Speaker 2>see what he looks like? Or is there not anyhotos

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<v Speaker 2>of them on the internet? Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>No, you can just type in David Bacon and you'll

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<v Speaker 1>be able to I think there's only one, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think you can see it at the Internet movie database.

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<v Speaker 1>So he looks like, you're just average, like twenty nine

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<v Speaker 1>year old man from the nineteen forties. He gotta looks

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<v Speaker 1>like an FBI agent, and the one that they use

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<v Speaker 1>for him, he won.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent, looks like an FBI agent or some

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<v Speaker 2>private investigator in a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I'm guessing that's a photo of his character

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<v Speaker 1>in The Mass Marvel, because I think he played like

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<v Speaker 1>a reporter or a private investigator, but not too many

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<v Speaker 1>like headshots of him trying to look glamorous.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also like another guy named David Bacon who is

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<v Speaker 2>a photo journalist, and there's a lot of photos of him,

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm hoping that this is okay. This is an IMDb,

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<v Speaker 2>so it has to be him and not the photojournalist.

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<v Speaker 1>But that seems to be the only one I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>of him. It doesn't I guess there are a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of If you go to Google Images, you can see

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<v Speaker 1>some screenshots of him from the Mass Marvel where he's

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<v Speaker 1>dressed in a suit in a fedora and is like posing. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they put his credit on screen.

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<v Speaker 2>On a side note, you could have convinced me if

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<v Speaker 2>you showed me this picture and I'm looking at photos

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<v Speaker 2>of Kevin Bacon, you could have told me that they

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<v Speaker 2>were just in relatives and I would have believed you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's true. Yeah, they do seem to have some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of resemblance, so that's quite amusing. So when they were

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<v Speaker 1>searching David's apartment, they also found a towel with the

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<v Speaker 1>name Buckland on it, but it was eventually traced to

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<v Speaker 1>a guy named Wilfred Buckleyton Junior, who said he had

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<v Speaker 1>only been there briefly because he had been helping another

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<v Speaker 1>friend named Harry Frize move into the apartment. For Ze

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<v Speaker 1>was a music producer from New York who had responded

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<v Speaker 1>to a rental ad that David had placed in the newspaper,

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<v Speaker 1>which offered the use of the apartment in exchange for

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<v Speaker 1>several hours of gardening work per day, and for Ze

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<v Speaker 1>was able to confirm that the cigarette holders in the

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<v Speaker 1>apartment belonged to a female friend who had also helped

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<v Speaker 1>him move in, but he was unable to account for

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<v Speaker 1>the three empty women's purses and the torn sleeve of

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<v Speaker 1>the blouse, so we still don't know who that belonged to.

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<v Speaker 1>And according to for Ze, he only stayed in the

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<v Speaker 1>apartment days before he was offered a job elsewhere and

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<v Speaker 1>then decided to move out, and he was cleared as

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<v Speaker 1>a suspect in David's murder. But considering that he never

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<v Speaker 1>actually did any gardening work or visited David's house, it

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<v Speaker 1>makes me wonder if he was in there for four

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<v Speaker 1>days for entirely different reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I've got a question here. Is there a

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<v Speaker 2>possibility that this apartment could have been used to run

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<v Speaker 2>sex workers, which could explain the torn blouse and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>the multiple persones.

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<v Speaker 1>Possibly, Yeah, because it seems like anyone who frequented this apartment,

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<v Speaker 1>when they're interviewed, you kind of get the sense that

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<v Speaker 1>they might be hiding something and not telling the full truth.

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<v Speaker 1>And pretty much everyone who went into this apartment was

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<v Speaker 1>cleared as a suspect in David's actual murder. But if

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<v Speaker 1>they went there for the purposes of hanging out with

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<v Speaker 1>sex workers or something like that, I can see them

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<v Speaker 1>not being forthcoming and sharing that information with the police.

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<v Speaker 2>And if that is true, if David was somehow embroiled

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<v Speaker 2>in that world, that would increase the probability that he

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<v Speaker 2>would be exposed to somebody who would end up doing

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<v Speaker 2>him harm.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly, And that is kind of my theory that

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<v Speaker 1>he had someone in that apartment at some point who

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<v Speaker 1>was responsible for his murder, but that person just did

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<v Speaker 1>not get interviewed by the police and completely slipped under

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<v Speaker 1>the radar. And the guy who owned the house, Charles Hendrix,

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<v Speaker 1>had another interesting story. He claimed that two days before

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<v Speaker 1>the murder, he showed up there to collect some rent

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<v Speaker 1>money from David and saw him there with an unidentified

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<v Speaker 1>man who seemed kind of uncomfortable and left in a hurry.

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<v Speaker 1>Hendricks was able to confirm that this guy was not

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<v Speaker 1>Harry Frizze, who had just been interviewed, but they eventually

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<v Speaker 1>found out that this was a twenty year old man

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<v Speaker 1>named Glenn Irwin Schaum, who was tracked down when investigators

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<v Speaker 1>found his phone number in David's belongings. He had actually

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<v Speaker 1>recently deserted from the Navy and was looking for work,

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<v Speaker 1>and he claimed that he also answered David's ad that

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<v Speaker 1>he was looking for a gardener. He claimed that he

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<v Speaker 1>only visited David's apartment that one time and never actually

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<v Speaker 1>moved in or took the job, but according to Charles Hendrix,

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<v Speaker 1>he looked like he was very unhappy that he had

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<v Speaker 1>come in there and interrupted him and left in a

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<v Speaker 1>big hurry, so it seemed like he might have been

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<v Speaker 1>there for other reasons. They were able to clear Shaum

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<v Speaker 1>as a suspect because he had an alibi placing him

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<v Speaker 1>with his wife on the day of the murder. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm also thinking to myself that he was not lured

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<v Speaker 1>to that apartment to get a gardening job. He may

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<v Speaker 1>have been there for other reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Is gardening or gardener like a euphemism for something?

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<v Speaker 1>Nah? I don't even know what kind of garden they

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<v Speaker 1>had at David's house, but it seems like he's going

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<v Speaker 1>to a lot of trouble to find a gardener, but

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<v Speaker 1>not actually bringing them to see the garden.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me look this up quickly. I just have to see, like,

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<v Speaker 2>is there is gardening or gardener? Okay? Gardening has recently

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<v Speaker 2>become a popular euphemism, particularly on TikTok and other social

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<v Speaker 2>media platforms, but it generally refers to smoking or consuming

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<v Speaker 2>marijuana rather than a sexual act.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, marijuana would have been a big deal in the forties,

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<v Speaker 1>so I could see them concealing that for that reason.

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<v Speaker 2>But ladygarden this is separate and sometimes slang term for

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<v Speaker 2>female genitalia. But this is distinct from the general verb gardening,

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<v Speaker 2>so I guess it could be seen as some euphemism

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<v Speaker 2>if you were referring to a lady garden.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's quite hilarious. Using TikTok euphemism. Back in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty three, like way ahead of its time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, like I said, Sean had an alibi where

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<v Speaker 1>his wife vouch from that day. But we've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>this on past episodes that you sometimes have to be

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<v Speaker 1>skeptical when someone's spouse is the only one who can

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<v Speaker 1>provide them with an alibi. And as you recall, David

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<v Speaker 1>was seen in his car with a man and a

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<v Speaker 1>woman shortly before he was murdered. So theoretically, if Sean

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<v Speaker 1>and his wife were in on it and were in

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<v Speaker 1>the car with him that day, then I could see

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<v Speaker 1>them providing each other with an alibi in order to

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<v Speaker 1>clear themselves. So I'd like to be curious of police

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<v Speaker 1>how thoroughly they vetted Sham's alibi. Were they able to

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<v Speaker 1>fight other witnesses who could verify his whereabouts or was

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<v Speaker 1>just his wife?

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<v Speaker 2>But like, what would be the motive? We know that

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<v Speaker 2>David was found wearing rings and he also had money

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<v Speaker 2>on him.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct, yes he did.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so robbery wasn't the motive. What would the motive

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<v Speaker 2>have been? Do you think?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Like the way that Cham was acting,

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<v Speaker 1>it makes me think that he might have been planning

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<v Speaker 1>sex with David in there and was very thrown about

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<v Speaker 1>when Charles Hendrix came in there and realized that he

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<v Speaker 1>had seen them together. So that's why he left in

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<v Speaker 1>a big hurry. So theoretically, if David and Sean were

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<v Speaker 1>involved in something, maybe they arranged to meet two days

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<v Speaker 1>later at another location instead of the apartment, And if

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<v Speaker 1>they were swingers, maybe his wife wanted to join in.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when things escalated into murder, and that's why they

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<v Speaker 1>were seen in the car altogether.

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<v Speaker 2>And I suppose to there is a scenario where a

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<v Speaker 2>couple decides to be swingers, and perhaps let's just put

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<v Speaker 2>up a hypothetical where David is in an intimate embrace

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<v Speaker 2>with the wife and the husband has thought that he

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<v Speaker 2>would be okay with this, but in seeing it, he

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<v Speaker 2>becomes enraged and he stabs David. So I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a possibility when you become embroiled in these types of

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<v Speaker 2>relationships that some especially if with people that you don't

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<v Speaker 2>know very well. But something like this could happen. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>if he was discharged and what did you say from

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<v Speaker 2>the Navy, Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He was actually wanted for desertion, and he actually got

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<v Speaker 1>in legal trouble when he was interviewed by police because

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<v Speaker 1>the Navy still wanted him on this charge. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think he served some time in the brig.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think there's a possibility that if you've served,

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<v Speaker 2>that you might be carrying some type of weapon on you,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if you're a deserter and you're worried about being

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<v Speaker 2>pulled back in and put up in front of a

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<v Speaker 2>jury and held responsible for what you've done. So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, there's so many possibilities open here, and this

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00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.639
<v Speaker 2>case just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

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<v Speaker 1>It is like, even though we have these mysterious guys

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00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:07.039
<v Speaker 1>in David's apartment who had been cleared to suspects, I

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00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.279
<v Speaker 1>still think it's possible that he was murdered by someone

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00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.200
<v Speaker 1>completely different who may have been at the apartment at

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00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.559
<v Speaker 1>one point but we just don't know it and has

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00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.440
<v Speaker 1>managed to slip under the radar. And again, even weirder,

290
00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.080
<v Speaker 1>they actually found something unpleasant in David's pass, which even

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00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Greta did not know about. But it turned out that

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<v Speaker 1>in September of nineteen thirty nine, well David was still

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00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>living in Los Angeles, he was arrested for and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>using the actual quote from the newspaper articles quote contributing

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00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to the delinquency of a fifteen year old newsboy. The

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00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:40.159
<v Speaker 1>story goes that this newsboy had visited David's home to

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00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:43.120
<v Speaker 1>collect some money for newspapers. When David answered the door

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<v Speaker 1>wearing nothing but a pajama top. He invited the newsboy

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00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.399
<v Speaker 1>inside and soon made an inappropriate sexual advance towards him,

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00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.279
<v Speaker 1>and the boy left before things actually crossed the line

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00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.639
<v Speaker 1>into sexual assault. But the newsboy did go to the

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00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.559
<v Speaker 1>police and David did get into some legal trouble. According

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00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to everyone who knew him, he did seem very regretful

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00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.360
<v Speaker 1>for his actions, and he wound up getting a suspended

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00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>sentence on the condition that he leave the state of

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00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.879
<v Speaker 1>California for three years, and he did just that. He

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00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:12.879
<v Speaker 1>went to New York for a couple of years, and

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00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.759
<v Speaker 1>then returned to Los Angeles in nineteen forty two, which

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00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.600
<v Speaker 1>is where he met Greta and then kind of restarted

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00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.559
<v Speaker 1>his acting career. So I don't know if that says

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00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.240
<v Speaker 1>anything bad about David. This is the only black mark

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00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>on his record that we know about, and did seem remorseful,

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if this was just a one

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00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:32.240
<v Speaker 1>time only thing where he did something inappropriate, but the

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00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.720
<v Speaker 1>fact that he made a move on a fifteen year

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00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.039
<v Speaker 1>old newsboy is very uncomfortable and shows that he was

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00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>capable of having dark secrets.

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<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely disgusting. It feels like a scene straight out

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00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of To Catch a Predator where you have this fifteen

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00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.360
<v Speaker 2>year old come to the door and I'm sorry it

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00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:49.919
<v Speaker 2>was David not wearing any underwear.

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<v Speaker 1>They just say he was wearing nothing but a pajama top,

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00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.039
<v Speaker 1>which I guess is an implication maybe that he had

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00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>no underwear.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm hoping that it covered his naughty bits because

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00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.120
<v Speaker 2>if that child, I don't think that this fifteen year

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00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.919
<v Speaker 2>old child would have gone in if he was completely exposed.

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00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.480
<v Speaker 2>But either way, to make sexual advances on a fifteen

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00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.559
<v Speaker 2>year old newsboy, there's absolutely no words. And I don't

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00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.440
<v Speaker 2>like to ever shame a victim of murder, but I

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.159
<v Speaker 2>think it is important that we point out that this

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00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:24.159
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely egregious and of course he's going to be

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00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.639
<v Speaker 2>remorseful about it. Anytime somebody gets caught, they're going to

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00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>be remorseful. And you wonder, was this just a one

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00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.759
<v Speaker 2>time thing, and they're truly remorseful or are they just

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00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.679
<v Speaker 2>remorseful for what they did because of the implications that

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00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:37.679
<v Speaker 2>has on their character.

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00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, we don't have any other documented cases of

339
00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:44.480
<v Speaker 1>David doing anything like that, but that's only what we

340
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.399
<v Speaker 1>know about. Like could he have done it with other

341
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.240
<v Speaker 1>young men who didn't go to the police and no

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00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.399
<v Speaker 1>one ever found out about it. But when you see that,

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00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and then you hear about him luring young men to

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00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:56.799
<v Speaker 1>his apartment for the promise of a job of a gardener,

345
00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:58.799
<v Speaker 1>then you begin to think that this could have played

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00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.759
<v Speaker 1>a role in his murder. So things got even weirder

347
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.160
<v Speaker 1>because another man named Charles Wild came forward and confessed

348
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.359
<v Speaker 1>to David's murder, but he turned out to be nothing

349
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.880
<v Speaker 1>more than an attention seeker and he was ruled out

350
00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:13.440
<v Speaker 1>as a suspect. And yet another man named Blakelee Patterson

351
00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:17.119
<v Speaker 1>came forward in contacted the Los Angeles Examiner newspaper to

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00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.680
<v Speaker 1>say that David was his friend and that he had

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<v Speaker 1>received a threatening extortion letter from him demanding money prior

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<v Speaker 1>to his death. This made the papers, it made them

355
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>think that the case was about to be solved, but

356
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>once Patterson was questioned by police, his story completely fell apart,

357
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:34.640
<v Speaker 1>and it turned out that he had never even met

358
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.440
<v Speaker 1>David in his life. And what was crazy is that

359
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.799
<v Speaker 1>Patterson said, well, I'm an inspiring actor, and I thought

360
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.839
<v Speaker 1>that if I shared this crazy story and got my

361
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>pitcher in the paper, this might help jump start my

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00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.640
<v Speaker 1>acting careers. So I'm just going to confess that I'm

363
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.759
<v Speaker 1>involved in a murder and hope that causes me to

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00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.160
<v Speaker 1>make it as an actor. So he was charged with

365
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>preparing false evidence, served ten days in jail, and wound

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<v Speaker 1>up being excommunicated from the state of California and forced

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<v Speaker 1>to return to his hometown in Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know you could be excommunicated from a state,

369
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>so I just learned something new. But that all checks out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's kind of like with the David where it's

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00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:10.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of I think it is an option where they

372
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:12.599
<v Speaker 1>will give you a lighter sense if you promise to

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00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.200
<v Speaker 1>leave the state for the next few years, and that's

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00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.759
<v Speaker 1>exactly what David did after the incident with the newsboy,

375
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:22.319
<v Speaker 1>though he eventually did return, so the case pretty much

376
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.000
<v Speaker 1>disappeared from the spotlight, and Greta Keller eventually returned to

377
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Europe to resume her career before she died in nineteen

378
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<v Speaker 1>seventy seven at the age of seventy four. And like

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00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.640
<v Speaker 1>I said, this case wasn't particularly well known. But when

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<v Speaker 1>I started writing for lispers dot com and was looking

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<v Speaker 1>for unsolved mysteries involving entertainers, that's when I decided to

382
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.559
<v Speaker 1>include it in my article. And unfortunately I included some

383
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.279
<v Speaker 1>of the details which later turned out to be false.

384
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:51.839
<v Speaker 1>So some of the stuff I'm about to share with

385
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.960
<v Speaker 1>you the sole source for it is a writer named

386
00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Darwin Porter, and like I said, he is known for

387
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>writing biographies about celebrity and famous figures, but he doesn't

388
00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.319
<v Speaker 1>publish them until long after they're dead, so there's no

389
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.000
<v Speaker 1>one around to refute his allegations. And he has made

390
00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.279
<v Speaker 1>a lot of wild claims that either are based on

391
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.839
<v Speaker 1>nothing more than secondhand, uncorroborated information, or it's possible he

392
00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.440
<v Speaker 1>just flat out made it up. And one of his

393
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.559
<v Speaker 1>most controversial books was a biography about James Dean in

394
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.920
<v Speaker 1>which he alleged that he was Marlon Brando's sex slave

395
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.039
<v Speaker 1>and that the two of them had some sort of

396
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.519
<v Speaker 1>secret gay affair. And of course he did not publish

397
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.440
<v Speaker 1>this book until they were both dead and everyone associated

398
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.799
<v Speaker 1>with Brando and James Dean were dead, so some people

399
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 1>have taken this as fact, but most scholars will say

400
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.319
<v Speaker 1>there is no evidence of this whatsoever, and Darwin Porter

401
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.240
<v Speaker 1>is just making this up to sell books.

402
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Clearly it works because I remember reading that somewhere and

403
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.519
<v Speaker 2>being like, oh, that's really not what I was expecting,

404
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.640
<v Speaker 2>but okay, and I sort of took it as fact

405
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:57.960
<v Speaker 2>as much as you can take something as fact that

406
00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.279
<v Speaker 2>goes so far back and there's nothing to really corroborated.

407
00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:05.400
<v Speaker 2>But it shows that he's somehow seeped into like pop

408
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:08.359
<v Speaker 2>culture literature and stuff, because that would have been somewhere

409
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.240
<v Speaker 2>that I would have consumed it, like on some website.

410
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I was researching this before this episode, and

411
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.279
<v Speaker 1>it's on one of those fact checking websites, and they say, no,

412
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.680
<v Speaker 1>there is no evidence that James Dean and Marlon Branda

413
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.279
<v Speaker 1>were lovers and had this S and M relationship. This

414
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.599
<v Speaker 1>is all likely a fabrication from Darwin Porter, but that's

415
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.640
<v Speaker 1>pretty much his m. He likes to say that you

416
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.000
<v Speaker 1>remember that big Hollywood star from the cast, they were

417
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 1>secretly gay and having affairs with these other big Hollywood

418
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.000
<v Speaker 1>star But I'm pretty sure most of it is bunk.

419
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.400
<v Speaker 1>So what's hilarious is that if you visit Darwin Porter's

420
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Wikipedia page, sometimes they will have sections which talk about

421
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.000
<v Speaker 1>his credibility issues and his false claims. But if you

422
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.880
<v Speaker 1>go to it now, that section is miraculously vanished. It

423
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.559
<v Speaker 1>seems to keep coming back and disappearing. And Darwin Porter

424
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:54.640
<v Speaker 1>is still alive at the age of eighty eight, and

425
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he spends a lot of time trying to

426
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.599
<v Speaker 1>do edits to his own Wikipedia page and getting rid

427
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.759
<v Speaker 1>of all the people who are saying use a complete fraud.

428
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like a full time job. And I think

429
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.279
<v Speaker 2>sometimes people don't even really realize that anyone can go

430
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:08.440
<v Speaker 2>in and edit Wikipedia.

431
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I have a feeling he also does a

432
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of edits on David Bacon's Wikipedia page, because if

433
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.079
<v Speaker 1>you go there, a lot of the stuff I'm about

434
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.759
<v Speaker 1>to share with you is still listed and cited as

435
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 1>being completely true. But the only source is a book

436
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that Darwin Porter wrote. The big revelation here is that

437
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>David was having a secret affair with none other than

438
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.279
<v Speaker 1>Howard Hughes, the very famous aviator who was also involved

439
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.480
<v Speaker 1>in films he like produced quite a bit of movies

440
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.240
<v Speaker 1>in his lifetime. And have you seen the movie The

441
00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:43.799
<v Speaker 1>Aviator where Leonardo DiCaprio played Howard Hughes, directed by Martin Scorsese.

442
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.839
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that was an excellent movie, it was.

443
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And you might remember a section in that movie

444
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>where they talk about how he once produced a controversial

445
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.240
<v Speaker 1>western called The Outlaw, which starred a very busty actress

446
00:21:57.319 --> 00:21:59.359
<v Speaker 1>named Jane Russell, and it was a subject of a

447
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.240
<v Speaker 1>lot of content because she showed too much cleavage. And

448
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:05.240
<v Speaker 1>there's an hilarious scene in there where he's in front

449
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>of the censorship board and they were saying, well, your

450
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.640
<v Speaker 1>movie is showing too much of this woman's memories. It

451
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.519
<v Speaker 1>has a excessive amount of memories. It probably sets a

452
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.519
<v Speaker 1>record for the most usage of the word memories in

453
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>a scene. And he's giving a demonstration, say, actually, she

454
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>doesn't show any more cleavage than other actresses in these

455
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 1>famous films. So it was completed in nineteen forty one,

456
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.079
<v Speaker 1>but it did not actually get a release until nineteen

457
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.319
<v Speaker 1>forty three because of all the controversy about her bus sides.

458
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, that is so funny. I do remember

459
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.400
<v Speaker 2>the controversy over that movie. In the scene in the Aviator,

460
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.680
<v Speaker 2>but I don't remember memories being used over and over

461
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:41.559
<v Speaker 2>and over again.

462
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.880
<v Speaker 1>But that is quite hilarious, yes, and so that ties

463
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.440
<v Speaker 1>into this story because I think it was like two

464
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.599
<v Speaker 1>thousand and five, Darwin Porter published a biography titled Howard

465
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.839
<v Speaker 1>Hughes Hell's Angel, and he says that he was friends

466
00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.680
<v Speaker 1>with Greta Caller and that shortly before Greta's death, she

467
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:04.119
<v Speaker 1>told Darwin all this juicy details about David Bacon having

468
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:07.640
<v Speaker 1>a secret relationship with Howard Hughes, which he decided to

469
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.400
<v Speaker 1>publish in this book. But conveniently, Greta has been dead

470
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.480
<v Speaker 1>for decades, Howard Hughes has been dead for decades. David

471
00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:16.440
<v Speaker 1>has obviously been dead since nineteen forty three, so there's

472
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.240
<v Speaker 1>no one around to refute any of these claims. But

473
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.039
<v Speaker 1>he claimed that Howard was the one who discovered David

474
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:26.279
<v Speaker 1>and jump started his acting career in Hollywood, and that

475
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 1>he was originally planning to cast him in the lead

476
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.680
<v Speaker 1>role as Billy the Kid in The Outlaw, but for

477
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:34.839
<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, it fell through and someone else got the role.

478
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.119
<v Speaker 1>But if you do research, you will find out there

479
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>are numerous holes in this story because I just said

480
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:43.240
<v Speaker 1>that after David was arrested for his inappropriate conduct with

481
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:46.440
<v Speaker 1>a newsboy in nineteen thirty nine, he was forced to

482
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>leave the state of California and he did not return

483
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.039
<v Speaker 1>until nineteen forty two. But the production of The Outlaw

484
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.319
<v Speaker 1>started in nineteen forty when David was living in New York.

485
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.000
<v Speaker 1>So how could Howard Hughes have discovered him and cast

486
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:01.400
<v Speaker 1>him in the role. And if you go to David

487
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Bacon's Wikipedia page, it even says that Howard discovered him

488
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.680
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty two, But you just do a bit

489
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:10.519
<v Speaker 1>of researching find out actually the movie was already filmed

490
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:13.160
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty one and then got released in nineteen

491
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.440
<v Speaker 1>forty three, So how did he discover David and cast

492
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:17.920
<v Speaker 1>him in this role when the production was already done.

493
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.359
<v Speaker 1>So this is yet another case of Darwin Porter just

494
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.440
<v Speaker 1>putting all these false claims in his book and hoping

495
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.759
<v Speaker 1>that no one fact checks them.

496
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the math ain't mathin and Darwin Porter seems to

497
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.519
<v Speaker 2>be very creative, but obviously it seems to be a

498
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:36.640
<v Speaker 2>pattern where like you said, he's choosing people that are

499
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:40.599
<v Speaker 2>deceased and everybody connected who could either corroborate or refute

500
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>is also deceased, and so it makes it incredibly difficult

501
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>to fact check his work.

502
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's the problem here. And I kind of wish

503
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.039
<v Speaker 1>I'd known this before I wrote that list first article,

504
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 1>because I included the detail about David of possibly being

505
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:57.480
<v Speaker 1>involved with Howard Hughes. Because Darwin's story is that before

506
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:00.319
<v Speaker 1>Greta died, she said that her husband hadriden right a

507
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.160
<v Speaker 1>tell all memoir about Howard Hughes and was going to

508
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>expose or affair. So Granta believe that Howard Hughes had

509
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.039
<v Speaker 1>David killed and was responsible for the murder. But you

510
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.640
<v Speaker 1>do any research and you'll find out there's no evidence

511
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>that they even met or knew each other, let alone

512
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.400
<v Speaker 1>had this secret affair. And none of the police reports

513
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 1>or the newspaper articles mentioned anything about this tal aal

514
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:22.880
<v Speaker 1>mamoir about Hughes.

515
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sorry, Like, if Howard Hughes was going to

516
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 2>have somebody killed, this man is a billionaire. Do you

517
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.119
<v Speaker 2>think that he would hire somebody to stab David or

518
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.920
<v Speaker 2>do you think that it would be somebody who would

519
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.759
<v Speaker 2>use a gun and they would make sure that he

520
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.400
<v Speaker 2>was dead. David wasn't dead, he was driving around with

521
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.359
<v Speaker 2>a stab wound. This doesn't sound like a hit man

522
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.319
<v Speaker 2>to me. This sounds like an impulsive act.

523
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I always thought, that this is not

524
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.799
<v Speaker 1>someone with skilled and murder because they obviously stabbed David

525
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:53.599
<v Speaker 1>and probably left the scene without checking that he was dead,

526
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.160
<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure a contract killer would not do. They

527
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.279
<v Speaker 1>would be a lot more careful than that. And even

528
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.200
<v Speaker 1>though Howard Hughes was romantically involved with a lot of

529
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:05.079
<v Speaker 1>famous actresses in Hollywood during that time period, I know

530
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.119
<v Speaker 1>that he was involved with Catherine Hepburn and Ava Gardner,

531
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.400
<v Speaker 1>but there is no evidence whatsoever that he was bisexual

532
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.079
<v Speaker 1>and ever involved in any secret affairs with other men.

533
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.519
<v Speaker 1>But what's crazy is that the Howard Hughes biography port

534
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.000
<v Speaker 1>decides to throw in details about the murder itself which

535
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:24.440
<v Speaker 1>are completely false and have been accepted as fact. And

536
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.599
<v Speaker 1>I remember when I first learned about this, one of

537
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the details that intrigued me was that they said that

538
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>they found a camera in David's car, and when they

539
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 1>developed the film, they found one photograph of David's smiling

540
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.599
<v Speaker 1>while he was lying nude on a beach, which led

541
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:41.519
<v Speaker 1>to speculation that the photograph was taken by his killer

542
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.599
<v Speaker 1>shortly before he was murdered. But guess what, when I

543
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 1>read that La Daily Mirror website, I found out they

544
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:50.759
<v Speaker 1>checked all the police reports, they checked all the newspaper articles.

545
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.680
<v Speaker 1>There is no mention about this camera or this mysterious photograph,

546
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:56.880
<v Speaker 1>and the sole source is Darwin Porter.

547
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, Darwin Porter knows how to make it a lot

548
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.279
<v Speaker 2>more intriguing and add a lot more layers to a story.

549
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:05.039
<v Speaker 2>It's just too bad that none of them could be

550
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.200
<v Speaker 2>corroborated and are likely not true.

551
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because that was I think one of the reasons

552
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 1>that people voted for this for My Trail Went Cold

553
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.319
<v Speaker 1>first anniversary show, because they read those details and said, ooh,

554
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 1>this is a really juicy and interesting case with these

555
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 1>weird details. And then you find out, like you said,

556
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:24.599
<v Speaker 1>a lot of them aren't true and another inaccurate detail

557
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.079
<v Speaker 1>is like he also writes that David was carrying one

558
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.720
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty dollars in his wallet when he was killed.

559
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:32.000
<v Speaker 1>When you read all the news articles they say it

560
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.039
<v Speaker 1>was only thirteen dollars, Because one hundred and fifty dollars

561
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.279
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty three money twenty eight hundred dollars to day,

562
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.279
<v Speaker 1>so it just seems like he's exaggerating details that have

563
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.359
<v Speaker 1>no relevance whatsoever to make the story more exciting. And

564
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 1>he also said that before Greta died, she's had the

565
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.240
<v Speaker 1>photograph of David while he was naked, as well as

566
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:54.319
<v Speaker 1>his bloodstained wallet, and decided to turn it over to

567
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Darwin when she died, and he said that I still

568
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 1>have these items in my possession to this day. And

569
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.440
<v Speaker 1>it's like, okay, if you have the photograph, then put

570
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:05.440
<v Speaker 1>it on the internet and show it to people. But no,

571
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.000
<v Speaker 1>this is just complete bunk.

572
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like you can lie, and you can lie,

573
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 2>and you can lie, but when you say that you've

574
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.079
<v Speaker 2>got evidence and it comes time where it's like, okay,

575
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>but this is true, you should be able to put

576
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 2>that out there, and especially if you're saying that you

577
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:22.759
<v Speaker 2>have it, you should be able to produce it, right,

578
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know what the Latin word for evidence is,

579
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.160
<v Speaker 2>like habeas corpus would be bringing the body, but like,

580
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 2>bring us the evidence, Starwin. There's really no reason not to,

581
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.839
<v Speaker 2>especially when you're promising that you have it. Why even

582
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:37.960
<v Speaker 2>go to your way to say that or to add

583
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.839
<v Speaker 2>that detail when you know that you can't produce it exactly.

584
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's what we were talking about. So many crazy

585
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.759
<v Speaker 1>details in this case already, and I had to confirm, Yes,

586
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.319
<v Speaker 1>this sounds weird, like the coded diary and whatnot, but

587
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.759
<v Speaker 1>it's one hundred percent true. So this case is already

588
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.480
<v Speaker 1>interesting enough without you having to make up all this

589
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.519
<v Speaker 1>extra stuff. And sadly, the biography also made a lot

590
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.880
<v Speaker 1>of uncorre oberated claims about Greta herself, claiming that she

591
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.880
<v Speaker 1>was also bisexual and was having affairs with some other

592
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 1>famous Hollywood actresses like Marlene Dietrich, which I'm pretty sure

593
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>is one hundred percent untrue. And the implication he wrote

594
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>was that David and Greta were hitched together in a

595
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.559
<v Speaker 1>lavender marriage, which did happen in Hollywood during that time period.

596
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.839
<v Speaker 1>A bunch of big stars like Rock Hudson married women

597
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.599
<v Speaker 1>because the studio executives did not want them to come

598
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:27.920
<v Speaker 1>out that they were interested in other men because that

599
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:31.559
<v Speaker 1>would destroy their career. But David was still a relatively

600
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.240
<v Speaker 1>unknown actor. He wasn't a big star, and like we

601
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.319
<v Speaker 1>talked about, he really wanted to have sex with Greta.

602
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.720
<v Speaker 1>He had gotten her pregnant. So I do think that

603
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:41.519
<v Speaker 1>even though there is a lot of evidence that he

604
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.279
<v Speaker 1>was bisexual and interested in other men, I think he

605
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:47.160
<v Speaker 1>did genuinely love Greta and have an interest in women,

606
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:49.680
<v Speaker 1>and that they were just not getting married for show

607
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.079
<v Speaker 1>because they were trying to save their careers.

608
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's something that exists in the gray area.

609
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:58.880
<v Speaker 2>It's very easy to be like black and white, like

610
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.480
<v Speaker 2>either one hundred percent Greta and that's it, or he

611
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.480
<v Speaker 2>was gay and living a secret life and not interested

612
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.599
<v Speaker 2>in her and it was a lavender marriage. I think

613
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.440
<v Speaker 2>it exists in the gray and it's somewhere in between,

614
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 2>and that he liked men, but he also liked women,

615
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:17.359
<v Speaker 2>and he loved Greta, but he also loved having trysts

616
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:20.880
<v Speaker 2>with other men. I think that in trying to explain it,

617
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.920
<v Speaker 2>it's very easy to put a label on it, like

618
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>a lavender marriage, because, like you said, it was something

619
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>that was I don't even I don't know if we

620
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 2>want to call it typical, but it was pretty common

621
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 2>back then because your currency as a movie star would

622
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.920
<v Speaker 2>be being appealing to women. The thought process back then

623
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>was that a gay man wouldn't have had the same

624
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:46.920
<v Speaker 2>appeal to women that a straight man does. So it's

625
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:51.119
<v Speaker 2>a very toxic thought process and very i'm sure deleterious

626
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.799
<v Speaker 2>to the mental health of many of the actors and

627
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.079
<v Speaker 2>executives in Hollywood at the time, but that was the

628
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:59.720
<v Speaker 2>reality that they were dealing with. If we look back,

629
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:02.920
<v Speaker 2>it's still something that I think a lot of actors

630
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.559
<v Speaker 2>probably struggle with because we have a lot of actors

631
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.599
<v Speaker 2>who are out, but I've heard different actors speak about

632
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:15.519
<v Speaker 2>getting cast in those lead character roles and how their

633
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:21.279
<v Speaker 2>sexual orientation has affected that. So it's not something that's

634
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.359
<v Speaker 2>without its challenges even today, and we're a lot more

635
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:25.559
<v Speaker 2>progressive in the way that we.

636
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.319
<v Speaker 1>Think, oh yeah, definitely, Like we have a lot more

637
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:31.799
<v Speaker 1>actors now who are out and openly say that they're gay,

638
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.240
<v Speaker 1>and they still get frequent work. But I'm sure there's

639
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.440
<v Speaker 1>still a lot of them who feel that this is

640
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.400
<v Speaker 1>going to destroy my brand. No one will be able

641
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:40.599
<v Speaker 1>to take me seriously if I play a straight role.

642
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.400
<v Speaker 1>So even if they do have a secret interest in men,

643
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 1>they decide to keep it from the public. And of

644
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.119
<v Speaker 1>course this would have been a lot more prominent during

645
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.079
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen forties, and especially for someone like David, who

646
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.799
<v Speaker 1>hadn't even really started his career, like he'd only done

647
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a few B movies and was hoping that he could

648
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.960
<v Speaker 1>become a star someday, but he was not yet at

649
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.799
<v Speaker 1>that level. So I think when you see the fact

650
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>that he was renting out this secret apartment, I think

651
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.279
<v Speaker 1>he was thinking to himself, I want to satisfy my

652
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Speaker 1>interest in men, but I don't want anyone to find

653
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.680
<v Speaker 1>out about it, because if anyone does, it's going to

654
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 1>kill my career and my life as an actor is over.

655
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 1>So I can definitely understand why he was doing stuff

656
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.359
<v Speaker 1>like writing coded diaries and living this secret double life,

657
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.480
<v Speaker 1>but unfortunately it seems like it led to him being killed.

658
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, one thing I am safe saying is that

659
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:28.279
<v Speaker 1>Howard Hughes did not kill him. I think we can

660
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.039
<v Speaker 1>now rule him out as a suspect. I'm not sure

661
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.720
<v Speaker 1>about any of the other men like Harry Frizzy or

662
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Schaum who visited his apartment. I think he may have

663
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 1>lured them there, maybe propositioned them. I'm not entirely sure

664
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.559
<v Speaker 1>if they had sex, but I do think that he

665
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 1>met up with someone on the day that he was killed.

666
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>And I'm still on the fence about whether he was

667
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.680
<v Speaker 1>killed by a man or possibly a man or a woman.

668
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:51.759
<v Speaker 1>I guess it depends on how much stock you put

669
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.279
<v Speaker 1>into the eyewitness sighting of the man and the woman

670
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>in the car with him. But it seems obvious that

671
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.079
<v Speaker 1>he met up with someone, and I don't think this

672
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 1>was a premeditated I think it was a crime of

673
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.680
<v Speaker 1>passion and that at one point David turned his back

674
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and this person just got so angry that they decided

675
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.519
<v Speaker 1>to stab him. But they did not wait to make

676
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 1>sure he was dead, and David did live long enough

677
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:13.920
<v Speaker 1>in order to drive away to try to seek help

678
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.400
<v Speaker 1>before he crashed his car.

679
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 2>So my question is how well stocked was the kitchen,

680
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Like was this knife something that somebody was carrying on

681
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>their person or could it have been a weapon of

682
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.559
<v Speaker 2>opportunity taken from the kitchen in the apartment.

683
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, they never checked that. That's a good question

684
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:33.279
<v Speaker 1>because I'd be curious to know if David took it

685
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:36.160
<v Speaker 1>with him or something like that, or maybe it was

686
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.319
<v Speaker 1>kept in the apartment. I don't know if they really

687
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.319
<v Speaker 1>looked at that, but I know they described it as

688
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.680
<v Speaker 1>a stiletto, and I know that that's often described as

689
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 1>like a murder weapon a lot of the time, that

690
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.440
<v Speaker 1>assassin's carry or something like that. Spot of course, because

691
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:50.680
<v Speaker 1>they never recovered the murder weapon itself, there are not

692
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.599
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent certain. So yeah, that's what I think

693
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.039
<v Speaker 1>did happen here, And I think this is a very

694
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.640
<v Speaker 1>intriguing case that has pretty much been lost to history,

695
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and unfortunately because of Darwin Porter's book. I guess the

696
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:04.119
<v Speaker 1>good side is that it did return it to the

697
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.359
<v Speaker 1>spotlight for the first time in several decades. But unfortunately

698
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of this stuff about like Howard Hughes and

699
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:12.960
<v Speaker 1>the naked the naked photograph of David are still being

700
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.639
<v Speaker 1>circulated around the Internet to this day. If you go

701
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.639
<v Speaker 1>to David Bacon's Wikipedia page, they'll still share the detail

702
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:21.559
<v Speaker 1>about the photograph and the Howard Hughes stuff, and so

703
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 1>it's very difficult to separate fiction from reality. But I

704
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:27.639
<v Speaker 1>would be curious to know if they still have the

705
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.599
<v Speaker 1>blonde hair from the sweat or as evidence, because they

706
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 1>could do DNA testing and even if it obviously the

707
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.679
<v Speaker 1>killer is probably long dead, if they could like match

708
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.119
<v Speaker 1>it up to someone, it may shed some light on

709
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.880
<v Speaker 1>who is responsible for this murder.

710
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I would love to see that hair bey DNA tested,

711
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.920
<v Speaker 2>like was it a male hair, was it a woman's hair,

712
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.280
<v Speaker 2>was it a mouns And was it even connected to

713
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:54.239
<v Speaker 2>David's murder. I think there's a possibility that it could

714
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>be completely unconnected, especially if we see a pattern of

715
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 2>David having these potential extramarital either trysts or affairs. You're right, though,

716
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.559
<v Speaker 2>with the inclusion of all of these weird details, it's unnecessary.

717
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.079
<v Speaker 2>I feel like there's enough juicy details with this story,

718
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:16.320
<v Speaker 2>with this random apartment, with these empty purses. We've got

719
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 2>that coded diary, that sweater, like, we don't need to

720
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.480
<v Speaker 2>throw in that there was naked photo of David on

721
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:28.159
<v Speaker 2>this undeveloped camera film and that he was on the

722
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.480
<v Speaker 2>beach nude and maybe it was taken by his killer.

723
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Even if the camera was found and there was a photo,

724
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:39.079
<v Speaker 2>it's just like the sweater. Unless there's a date published

725
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.079
<v Speaker 2>on that and you know that it's the day that

726
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:43.719
<v Speaker 2>David died, Even if it is the same day, you

727
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 2>still can't prove that the person that took that is

728
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 2>necessarily the killer. It's so hard to know. Even if

729
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 2>he was at the beach, we know that he had

730
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.599
<v Speaker 2>sanded his shorts, but that doesn't mean that he didn't

731
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:55.800
<v Speaker 2>just pull on a pair of shorts in order to

732
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.559
<v Speaker 2>make it look like he'd gone swimming. When he comes

733
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>back and gret a season, he can be like, look

734
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 2>I was at the beach, Look what I'm wearing. So

735
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.559
<v Speaker 2>there's just so many bizarre details. But I really wish

736
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.159
<v Speaker 2>that we could crack the code on that diary and

737
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.119
<v Speaker 2>we could know all of the entries that he made,

738
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 2>because there's so much mystery associated with David. I'm with

739
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:19.800
<v Speaker 2>this case in general, this weird apartment. I just want

740
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.559
<v Speaker 2>to know everything.

741
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.360
<v Speaker 1>It's true. I kind of wish that that diary, if

742
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:25.000
<v Speaker 1>they still have it in evidence, that they could just

743
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.400
<v Speaker 1>release it to the public and let some amateur sluice

744
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.400
<v Speaker 1>to code it, because I know that's how one of

745
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.639
<v Speaker 1>the zodiac letters was cracked, because some random professor and

746
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:35.239
<v Speaker 1>his wife were reading it in the newspaper and figure

747
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.440
<v Speaker 1>it out. And of course it's been over eighty years.

748
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.400
<v Speaker 1>It's not like you're going to jeopardize an active investigation

749
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 1>because obviously the killer is probably never going to be

750
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.039
<v Speaker 1>arrested and prosecuted. But just for curiosity's sake, I love

751
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 1>to release it, just to try to figure out what

752
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 1>he was writing in there and maybe shed some light

753
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:52.840
<v Speaker 1>on why he was killed.

754
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like when you get this far along,

755
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.239
<v Speaker 2>it's around like eighty years ago, right, So it's a

756
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>long time ago. There's likely barely anybody who was attached

757
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.800
<v Speaker 2>to this case who's still alive. So are you going

758
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.760
<v Speaker 2>to be kicking a hornet's nest by allowing amateur sleuths

759
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.519
<v Speaker 2>to have a crack at that journal? I don't think so.

760
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.719
<v Speaker 2>I really think, like, what do you have to lose?

761
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.199
<v Speaker 2>Citizens Louths love to decode something, and I bet even

762
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.840
<v Speaker 2>now you could probably put it into some program in

763
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 2>AI and it could pretty easily be decoded. I can't

764
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:33.320
<v Speaker 2>imagine that it's this amazing code that is so difficult

765
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:35.679
<v Speaker 2>to break that like code breakers can't break it.

766
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. So I would like to see, even if

767
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:41.800
<v Speaker 1>this case has never conclusively saw, maybe someone come up

768
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:44.519
<v Speaker 1>with a theory that shed some light on what happened

769
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.199
<v Speaker 1>before we close it off. I just wanted to confirm

770
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.239
<v Speaker 1>that this story I shared earlier about him being friends

771
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.119
<v Speaker 1>with Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart, that's once again the

772
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 1>sole source is Darwin Reporter's biography and Howard Hughes, and

773
00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 1>it's another case of him making up these salacious details

774
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 1>for no reason whatsoever, even though, like the whole thing

775
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.800
<v Speaker 1>with Fonda and Stewart has nothing to do but the

776
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:08.480
<v Speaker 1>actual crime himself. And he also makes up another story

777
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:11.480
<v Speaker 1>that David was nearly expelled from Harvard because of a

778
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.000
<v Speaker 1>scandal where he and his roommate were quote unquote and

779
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.679
<v Speaker 1>this is the actual language he used auditioning some of

780
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the best bodies on the football team. What yeah, that's

781
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.199
<v Speaker 1>what he said as well. Just that's the kind of

782
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:26.960
<v Speaker 1>salacious writing that Porter does. It's just ridiculous. But once again,

783
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.039
<v Speaker 1>that story is probably not true.

784
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.880
<v Speaker 2>But I think, like Darwin Porter borrowed from things like

785
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 2>The National Inquirer, the more sordid details that you can

786
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.719
<v Speaker 2>have and the bigger the celebrity names that you can

787
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:42.800
<v Speaker 2>have attached to a story, the more you're going to sell.

788
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>And I guarantee you that to add Jimmy Stewart and

789
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Henry Fonda to the list, and then later to add

790
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Howard Hughes as a potential murder suspect, which seems like

791
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 2>absolutely bs. But when you add these names, the interest deepens,

792
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and so people are going to be like, oh, like,

793
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>let me read more. I want to know more. And

794
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.000
<v Speaker 2>when there was no way to fact check Darwin Porter

795
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.880
<v Speaker 2>at the time, he could easily skate by not getting

796
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>sued and not having as many questions asked of him.

797
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Now it's so easy to research it, and it's so

798
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.119
<v Speaker 2>easy to go and like disprove it. And you said

799
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:22.880
<v Speaker 2>that whole article was written basically fact checking Darwin Porter's

800
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 2>work and showing like egregious errors and fla full on fabrications.

801
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Let's just call it like it is.

802
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think that has complicated the case. But

803
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.199
<v Speaker 1>unlike our last series about Gene Spangler, where there was

804
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.960
<v Speaker 1>really credible allegations against Kirk Douglas, none of the celebrities

805
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:41.119
<v Speaker 1>we talked about today, I'm pretty sure we're involved in

806
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the crime or did anything wrong. But yes, since we've

807
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 1>done Geen Spangler and David Bacon, it just shows that

808
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood in the nineteen forties was a really weird place

809
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.320
<v Speaker 1>and that there's some compelling unsolved mysteries and we'll probably

810
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.639
<v Speaker 1>never find out the truth about what happened, but I

811
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.599
<v Speaker 1>sure would like to know what eventually led to David

812
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Bacon's death. So any further thought on the murder of

813
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 1>David Bacon.

814
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 2>My heart just really goes out to Greta because I

815
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:08.079
<v Speaker 2>can't imagine what she had to experience. It would be

816
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:10.920
<v Speaker 2>hard enough living in the country that you weren't born in.

817
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.320
<v Speaker 2>You're forging this whole new life. You meet a man,

818
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 2>you fall in love, you get married, maybe it's not

819
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:21.440
<v Speaker 2>perfect what relationship is. And you're pregnant with a child,

820
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.519
<v Speaker 2>which is you're going to be your first child at

821
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:25.800
<v Speaker 2>around the age of forty. That's not going to be

822
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>necessarily an easy pregnancy. It is for some women, but

823
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.239
<v Speaker 2>I think for most women it can have its challenges.

824
00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:34.360
<v Speaker 2>And then to find out that you've lost your partner,

825
00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:37.800
<v Speaker 2>that he's been murdered, and then you have complications with

826
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.239
<v Speaker 2>your pregnancy and your baby is still born. My heart

827
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:43.960
<v Speaker 2>broke for her in that moment when Robin said that,

828
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.159
<v Speaker 2>it literally felt like I've been punched in the gut.

829
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.239
<v Speaker 2>There's nothing worse than losing the two people that the

830
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 2>one person you haven't met yet but you know you're

831
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.760
<v Speaker 2>going to love more than anybody else in the whole

832
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:59.159
<v Speaker 2>entire world, and then to lose your partner it's the

833
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Speaker 2>grief must have been a title wave for Greta. So

834
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad that she lived her last years with a partner,

835
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.760
<v Speaker 2>and I hope that that partner brought her all of

836
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:09.360
<v Speaker 2>the happiness that she deserved.

837
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Greta is definitely the most sympathetic person in this story.

838
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:15.760
<v Speaker 1>And obviously, even though David didn't deserve to be murdered,

839
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.639
<v Speaker 1>he definitely had some problematic things about his own life,

840
00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:21.519
<v Speaker 1>like the incident with the newsboy. But Greta didn't do

841
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:23.920
<v Speaker 1>anything wrong, and she had to go through this tragedy

842
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.960
<v Speaker 1>losing both her husband and her unborn child, and then

843
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.400
<v Speaker 1>the fact that someone is saying, years after she's dead,

844
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.920
<v Speaker 1>that she had affairs with other actresses and gave like

845
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.920
<v Speaker 1>this conspiracy theory about how her husband was murdered by

846
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Howard Hughes, which is completely untrue. I don't think she

847
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:40.559
<v Speaker 1>even knew Darwin porter let alone shared all these secrets

848
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.199
<v Speaker 1>with them, So it's kind of sad that they're kind

849
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.639
<v Speaker 1>of slandering her name posthumously. But yeah, this is a

850
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.519
<v Speaker 1>very intriguing case and I definitely feel a lot of

851
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>sympathy with her, and maybe one day we can finally

852
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.400
<v Speaker 1>get the answers. So that about brings an end to

853
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:56.960
<v Speaker 1>our series about the murder of David Bacon. Thank you

854
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 1>so much for your continued support, and we'll be back

855
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:03.199
<v Speaker 1>next week with a series about another cold case, Robin.

856
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to tell us a little bit about

857
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold? Patreon?

858
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

859
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:12.840
<v Speaker 1>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

860
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.280
<v Speaker 1>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

861
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

862
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:21.760
<v Speaker 1>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

863
00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:25.880
<v Speaker 1>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

864
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.079
<v Speaker 1>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

865
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 1>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

866
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:35.239
<v Speaker 1>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

867
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.199
<v Speaker 1>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

868
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:42.559
<v Speaker 1>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaved Mysteries,

869
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.800
<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

870
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:49.079
<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

871
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:52.480
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

872
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.639
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

873
00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:59.079
<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode, and incidentally, the very

874
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:01.960
<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

875
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.760
<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

876
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.519
<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

877
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:10.559
<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

878
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

879
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 3>So I want to let you know a little bit

880
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.039
<v Speaker 3>about the jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

881
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.960
<v Speaker 3>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

882
00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:22.000
<v Speaker 3>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

883
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.159
<v Speaker 3>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

884
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:27.079
<v Speaker 3>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.

885
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.320
<v Speaker 3>So we hope you'll check out those patreons.

886
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>We'll link them in the show notes.

887
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.239
<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

888
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.719
<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

889
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.119
<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly

890
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.880
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at

891
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:43.679
<v Speaker 1>gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at

892
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.519
<v Speaker 1>the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle

893
00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:50.079
<v Speaker 1>up because cold trails and chili pass Call for warm clothing.

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00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy