WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:27.399 We're Tame Lorenzo, and this is the Better Kitten Movie Club. 2 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.399 Hello Kittens, Welcome back to another edition of the bi 3 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:32.240 k MC, a supplemental edition of the Pop Style, Opinion 4 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:34.479 Pest podcast where we take a look at one film 5 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:38.479 per week and dissect it and come up with talking 6 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.079 points and just make observations. It's not a review, it's 7 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:45.200 it's meant to be an opening to a discussion. 8 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:47.520 Yeah. What I love about it, I don't think I've 9 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:49.840 mentioned this to you, is that it forces it towards 10 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.840 things that probably I wouldn't watch. Well, that's nice, And 11 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:55.520 it's nice because I discover a lot of great things, 12 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.320 and you know, I hate other things. But it's nice 13 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.640 because you get exposed to stuff that probably I wouldn't 14 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:03.600 pick immediately. 15 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:09.120 This makes a good segue because this week's film is 16 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.640 Blue Moon. Twenty twenty five's Blue Moon, from director Richard 17 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:17.680 link Later, starring Ethan Hawk and Andrew Scott and Margaret 18 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:22.719 Qualley and Bobby kind of Ollie and I, was critically 19 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:26.879 acclaimed film last year. It was nominated for Best Screenplay 20 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:32.359 and Ethan Hawk was nominated OSCAR nominated for Best Actor. 21 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:37.480 Critics loved it, of course, and I went into it 22 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:39.840 thinking I was also going to love it. I was 23 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.480 really really looking forward to this one, and I gotta 24 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.439 say I didn't like it at all. I really wrestled 25 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.680 with this. I thought, why, you know, and I'm going 26 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:50.959 to unpack a couple of reasons why I think I didn't. 27 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:56.840 It didn't appeal to me. But I'm gonna tost to you, 28 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:58.680 and I want your initial thoughts go ahead. 29 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.480 My initial thoughts had no idea what I was expected, 30 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.519 what I was going to watch. Honestly, I knew a 31 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:09.360 little bit about him, not much the main character, but 32 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:11.919 and I had no idea that was going to be 33 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:13.680 the setup. I mean, at some point, I'm like, all right, 34 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.159 are we leaving this bar or what? Because it just 35 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.080 got annoying. I was like, all right, this is okay. 36 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:21.439 And then once you realize that, okay, we're not leaving 37 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:24.319 this bar, So let me just pay attention to what 38 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.280 he's saying, you know what I mean, because that's much 39 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:28.479 the core of this whole thing is what he say. 40 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.840 And once you understand that, I mean, I guess you 41 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.599 just watched the movie for what it is. I like, 42 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.840 certain parts got very annoyed and board with other parts 43 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:46.240 and impatient, sometimes very impatient, because every now and then 44 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:48.719 it got to you know, a point that was like, 45 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:50.800 you know when you listen to someone telling a whole 46 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:52.840 long story that you don't want to listen to it 47 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.280 at all, and you're like, oh my god, just get 48 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:57.080 to the end of it. I can't take this anymore. 49 00:02:57.199 --> 00:02:58.759 It felt like that every now and then. 50 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.719 I feel like that was link Later's intention. Yes, yes, 51 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.280 was that he wanted to get across that Lorenz Heart 52 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:12.319 was a lot. He was just a lot, a lot. 53 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:14.680 Apparently I was. 54 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:16.680 And I think I'm sorry, and I think that's why 55 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:19.520 he just lets some of those those monologues just go on. 56 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:22.520 And I agree with you, for I almost all of 57 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:23.919 them go on way too long. 58 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:28.199 I read some people, friends of people who you know, 59 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.759 were part of his life saying that he was very insecure, 60 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.319 and that's what's that's how he acted most of the time. 61 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:39.439 It was like you would talk non stop and he 62 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:41.800 would make jokes. I mean, that was his way of 63 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.680 dealing with his own insecurity and the way he felt 64 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:49.159 about himself. So and he comes across because he can't 65 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:50.319 stop talking. 66 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:55.919 And it, in fact, it felt a little bit uh 67 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.360 one of the reasons I struggled with this, and I 68 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:00.240 struggled with my reaction to Well, there there were a 69 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.479 lot of reasons why I struggled with my reaction to it, 70 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:09.039 but I'll start with this. I do not enjoy depictions 71 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:10.639 of gay men that render us. 72 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:14.759 Pathetic, especially of a certain age. 73 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.319 I agree. I agree middle aged pathetic. Game In is 74 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.360 a trope that I never want to see on screen again. 75 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:27.759 And I get it. I looked, I wasn't. I mean, 76 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:29.800 I know who Loren's heart was, I know what his 77 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.279 work was, and I knew the bare bones of his life, 78 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.240 but I did not know much. So I went and 79 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:37.120 I looked. After the movie, I went and looked, you know, 80 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:39.959 read some articles on him and everything. It's a very 81 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.439 good article in the Atlantic from like twelve years ago. 82 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.079 When I think the biography that this film is based on. 83 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:52.920 Oh yeah, yeah so, and everything that the film depicts 84 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:55.600 is true as far as I can tell, true to 85 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.279 his personality, true to his life. 86 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:04.360 He he was a closeted man, a man who most 87 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.199 of his contemporaries and friends believed to have been a 88 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:09.560 closeted gayment. He's also been referred to as a voyeur, 89 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.480 and I think that kind of explains that whole scene 90 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:13.839 where she's telling him about her sex life and everything, 91 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:19.240 which I hated that scene so much. He was an alcoholic, 92 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.680 he spends time in sanitariums. It was serious. I mean, 93 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:26.439 he was killing himself and all of that is on screen. 94 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:32.319 And I would not argue that you shouldn't depict those things, 95 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:34.680 but it's like how you depict those things and what 96 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:39.519 you want to focus on in your biographical film. I 97 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.560 think that's worth unpacking. Okay, so here's what I want 98 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:49.199 to say. You can show all of this stuff. Obviously, 99 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.519 it would actually be inaccurate of you to not show 100 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:56.000 all of this stuff, to show how overwhelming his personality is, 101 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.920 how he was weird about sex and weird about women, 102 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.319 and you know, all of that, the alcoholism and everything, 103 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:07.759 the attention seeking. Apparently all of that is very very true. 104 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:10.680 But it wasn't until this morning, because we watched it 105 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:15.040 last night, that I really I thought of two other films, 106 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.759 one of which at the time we actually liked, which 107 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:23.800 was Renees Elwegger's Judy, and then the Ana Deormist Maryland 108 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:28.040 film Blonde. And in both of those instances, you can 109 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:30.319 look at those films and say, well, yeah, technically, what 110 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.240 is being depicted on screen here it's been attested to. 111 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:35.800 Some of the Maryland stuff got a little fanciful, but 112 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:38.120 the Judy stuff was, well, it's pretty much what it 113 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.240 was like. But and this was our problem with Blonde, 114 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:44.959 was it's about what you have decided to focus on 115 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.920 in telling your story. So in Judy they focused on like, 116 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:49.800 literally it was the same kind of movie. It was 117 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:52.439 like literally her at the end of her life, absolutely 118 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.959 a mess, dying and withering away. We actually enjoyed that 119 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:58.959 film at the time, and I think that's partially because 120 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.439 we were so shocked that Zelwicker could pull it off. 121 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:03.399 But in the year's sense, I watched it a couple 122 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:06.680 of times and I'm like, this is actually a brutal film. Similarly, 123 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:08.959 with Blonde, you can say that most of what was 124 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.639 depicted on there was probably true to Marilyn's life in 125 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.199 some way, But the fact that you chose to make 126 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.519 an entire film about how fucked up and how sexually 127 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.800 abused she was, it's not an untrue portrayal, but I 128 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:24.720 question why that'sh So that's where I am with this, 129 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:28.120 where it's like all right, it's Loren's heart, and I 130 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:32.240 think all of this is accurate. But I found it 131 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:34.959 a deeply unpleasant film to watch. I thought it was 132 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.560 mean spirited in a lot of ways. 133 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.279 I think, I think, yeah, I think I do. I 134 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.160 see a lot of biopics now doing that kind of stuff. 135 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.519 They picked one thing about the person and they focus 136 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.399 on it. Which if it's someone famous that you know 137 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.120 a lot about, then it's fine in a way. In 138 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.199 a way, and if you accept it. Most people like 139 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.480 the whole story from beginning to end, you know, for 140 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.360 a biopic, but you know it's not always the case. 141 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.879 But it's fine. You're allowed to do whatever you want 142 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.639 as a director, as a creator. In this case, not 143 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:10.879 a lot of people know about this guy at all, right, 144 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.160 And that was my issue, And so I was like, 145 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.720 all right. The whole time, I was like, I appreciate 146 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:19.839 his sense of humor. 147 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:21.720 Here was some very witty lines. 148 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.240 He's clearly brilliant. 149 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.279 Brilliant does come across trouble. 150 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.879 I get all that. But I get all that, and 151 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.759 I don't mind watching someone like that, because someone like 152 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.720 that it's interesting as a character. But the whole time 153 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.759 I was like, what is your point here, what's the 154 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:40.519 point of your movie? Why? 155 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.639 What is this? 156 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:45.440 What story are you telling me here? Because I felt like, 157 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.320 all right, I don't really see the purpose of this. 158 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.080 We don't know much about this guy. I you know, 159 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.600 slowly you find out who he is, and you know 160 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:57.960 the whole thing with Richard Roger, and there's a lot 161 00:08:57.960 --> 00:08:59.559 of stuff missing that I had to go on and 162 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:00.879 look and all like, oh, now that I. 163 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.919 Think it does presuppose that you know a lot of 164 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:04.320 this stuff. 165 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:05.320 Most people don't. 166 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.000 It's a well theater buffs do well. And I do 167 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:10.720 think this was a film made for theater. 168 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:13.039 Buffs, right, But that's not enough for an audience well, and. 169 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:14.840 That is part of the reason why I think I 170 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:19.320 didn't react well to it. I should note here that 171 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:24.480 director Richard link Later also directed Nouvelle Vague, which was 172 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.600 a BKMC choice in our first month. I think it 173 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:30.039 was like in April. Both of those movies came out 174 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:34.440 in the same year, and if you take a step back, stylistically, 175 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.559 they're very different, but they are doing the exact same thing. 176 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:41.600 Nouvelle Vague was a film that was a loving homage 177 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:44.559 to the people who created the New wave film movement 178 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:48.039 in France as such, it was shot like a new 179 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.360 wave film. Everybody talked like they were in a new 180 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.480 wave film. Everybody looked like they were. He essentially made 181 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:57.879 a new wave film about the new wave similarly, and 182 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.799 that you know, it was all famous in it. You know, 183 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.679 there were all these famous filmmakers and writers and critics 184 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:09.039 that were popping up in the story. Similarly, in some ways, 185 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.240 this is a love letter to the New York theater crowd. 186 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:16.720 It's a love letter to the musical theater in some ways. 187 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.759 And because of that, it stays like a play. It 188 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:22.720 looks like a play, it reads like a prep play. 189 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.639 And everybody's acting style is actually much more theat like 190 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.240 Bobby kind of Alli, much more theatrical in this than 191 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:34.200 he is in other roles, because he's essentially playing to 192 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:39.399 the backstage of a theater. And I I'm not a 193 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.799 theater person, not really. I'm a film person. One hundred 194 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:44.480 percent of film person went to film school, loved movies, 195 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:48.360 and nouvelle vogs just checked off a bunch of boxes. 196 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:50.159 For me. I just loved every minute of it because 197 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:52.240 I was getting the references and that sort of thing. 198 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.919 Making a movie exactly. I'm on the outside of this. 199 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.600 I mean, I'm not ignorant of the American theater, but 200 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.240 it's I'm not a buff. I got the references. I mean, 201 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.000 as soon as that kids showed up and you heard me, 202 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.720 I said, oh no, and I before you were like 203 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.799 what and I was like, that kid's gonna be Stephen Sondheim. 204 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:10.600 I just know it. 205 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.840 And the credits. I mean, somebody said that they read 206 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.480 the credits and at the end of the movie and 207 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:15.080 they realized it. 208 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:15.440 Oh. 209 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.000 I didn't even need to read the credits because actually 210 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.519 the lines that they gave him were things that he 211 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:21.399 had actually said. 212 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:22.360 Yeah, I see. 213 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.320 About Lorenz's hearts come, but he said it years later 214 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:29.279 when he was an adult. Right, So this film is 215 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:33.639 a loving homage and it's very stagy, and it's meant 216 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.600 to sort of be the thing that it's talking about. 217 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.679 In other words, it's a play. It's a movie that 218 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.159 looks like a play about people in the theater. 219 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:45.960 Everybody mentioned that it feels like a play. In fact, 220 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:47.679 I asked you, I was like, was this a play before? 221 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:49.720 And I said it, I kind of wish it had 222 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.279 been and stayed a play, because it probably would have 223 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.240 worked better as a play than I feel it works 224 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.519 as a movie. 225 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.159 I think it's an interesting look at how theater works 226 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:04.919 and how people work in theater, you know, the whole 227 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.440 thing about you know how, and the whole thing about 228 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.159 Hollywood and the entertainment industry in general, that you are. 229 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:13.960 I mean, this guy was extremely famous, He made a 230 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.039 ton of money. He was considered a genius in his time, right, 231 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.000 and then he dropped and then you know, started drinking 232 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.840 and having troubles and and all of a sudden he's 233 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.919 getting you know, Richard Rogers. He's replacing him with somebody else. 234 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.639 So and they go on forever, and this guy, you know, 235 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.480 ends up dead. So uh, it's a sad life. It's 236 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.960 an interesting take on how how how it is with 237 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.399 theater and cinema and all that. You know, you you 238 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:44.840 are famous, you are at the star and then you're 239 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.759 not anymore, and how that affects your life and all that, 240 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.039 and and being Jewish, being gay, you know all that 241 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:53.919 at the time very. 242 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:06.759 And I I'll get to that in a bit, I think, yeah, 243 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:12.039 all right, So comparing this to Nuvelle Vague, the interesting 244 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.200 thing about nu Valvage and I actually I think I 245 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.039 voiced this at the time was that Link later seemed 246 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.159 unable or unwilling to do or say anything too critical 247 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.759 the people he was talking about. So it was extremely loving. 248 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.519 And I was struck by this film because it reveled 249 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.440 in all the worst parts of this man's life and personality, 250 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.720 and in fact, it barely gave us a glimpse of 251 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.879 anything good in his life. The opening shot of the 252 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.720 film is him dying in an alleyway. That is a 253 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:47.720 brutal way to open the biopic of an artist that 254 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:52.000 you are supposedly, I don't know, elevating in some way. 255 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.080 It's just such a brutally harsh way to open that film. 256 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:56.960 And yes, that is how he died. I get it, 257 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.440 and I get it as a filmmaking choice because it 258 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.679 is hanging over the entire film. You've already watched him 259 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:08.200 die in a gutter, so you're it just becomes all 260 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.080 about his his degradation in it, and that that again 261 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:14.639 is my problem with this film. Again, you're allowed to 262 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.080 do that. You are absolutely allowed to tell dark stories 263 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:19.639 about artists who are allowed to talk. And when you 264 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:21.360 take a step when I take a step back, I 265 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:27.840 realized that, Okay, Richard Roger. I mean Lorenz Heart showing 266 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.279 up at Sardi's on the opening night of Oklahoma. That's 267 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.720 a story. I understand why this is where you have 268 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.960 decided to focus it. I just and I did read 269 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.360 up on it, and apparently he was there, and he 270 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:44.559 was there with his mother and he said something very 271 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.799 nice and left, And that is the thing. I looked 272 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:50.279 all of this up after I left, after I watched 273 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.000 the film, and the film is completely fictionalized down to 274 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.919 that girl does not exist. No, actually she no, they 275 00:14:58.120 --> 00:14:59.279 fucking lied about it. 276 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.480 Well, it isn't she. 277 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.399 They say at the end that this is based on 278 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.759 letters between him and Lorenz Heart and Elizabeth Wyland. The 279 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.159 only person who has ever seen these letters is the screenwriter, 280 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.720 who claims to have bought them in it at an auction. 281 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.720 No mention of her in any of Lorenz's Heart's other 282 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:19.759 writings stopped buy nothing. There is apparently a woman that 283 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.440 he exchanged one or two letters with. She was a 284 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:25.360 fan or something, and that was it. They don't even 285 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.840 know that they ever met in person. And that fucking 286 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:35.440 offends me because you created this creepy, bizarre obsession. Why 287 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.200 why did you create this that didn't exist. I mean, 288 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:42.360 and I did. I read up on his relationships with women, 289 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.240 and they were sort of like that where he became 290 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.960 very obsessed with some woman, right, but they didn't love 291 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.000 him in that way. And maybe I'll unpack a little 292 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.080 bit of this after the break, because some of the 293 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.559 bad reactions I was having to this was I was like, 294 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.679 is this because I see something of myself in this story? 295 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:02.559 And in fact, on that note, why don't we take 296 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.559 a quick break and then we'll come back. Right, we're back, 297 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.639 So picking up on the I'm sorry I've acted like 298 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:10.360 I'm surprised. 299 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:12.240 Give you the MinC. 300 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:14.919 Yeah, we're back, And I just want to pick up 301 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.320 on my last point because I did sit there thinking 302 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.120 and does this bother me so much? Because I'm recognizing 303 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:26.240 some part of my closeted self in this story, and 304 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:32.360 certainly when I was closet I'm giving away too much 305 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.360 of myself here, but when I was closeted, I was 306 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.320 very much and I think this is true of a 307 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:39.799 lot of queer men and possibly of queer women as well, 308 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.639 But I don't want to speak to their experiences when 309 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:46.360 you're in the closet or when you're trying to like 310 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.320 distract people from who you really are deep down. You 311 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.200 put on a performance. And this was very much me 312 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.960 socially in my teens and twenties, which I was just joking, 313 00:16:58.039 --> 00:16:59.879 putting on and non stop talking. 314 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:00.720 That's what he did. 315 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.759 So I do recognize that part of myself in him, 316 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.200 and in my teens and early twenties at least, I did, 317 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.920 like a lot of closeted gay men, developed sort of 318 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.119 obsessions with women that I thought were going to save 319 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:17.720 me from my gayness. None of it ever went anywhere, 320 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.599 and certainly not to the extent of that weird thing 321 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.359 that we saw on screen. But you know, you get 322 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.000 these little weird gay boy crushes on girls that you 323 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.559 think are going to save you, high school girls, college girls. Again, 324 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:36.480 I get it. I can even identify with, for instance, 325 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:40.960 watching someone surpass you, you know, and I think everybody 326 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.519 can see, can you know understand that feeling? So there 327 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.359 were parts of me in him and in his performance 328 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.480 that I felt like I needed to unpack in order 329 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.200 to deal with why I hated it so much. And 330 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.400 then I realized, well, wait a minute, I was never 331 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:58.839 a middle aged man doing these things. I was like 332 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.920 a very very young man. So no, this doesn't feel 333 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.160 like me at all. It feels a little bit like 334 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:06.119 some of the stuff I went through when I was 335 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.880 in the closet. But my negative reaction is it doesn't 336 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:13.079 come down to, oh, I saw parts of myself in 337 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.680 the story and I was uncomfortable with it. Although I 338 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:17.920 did work on unpacking that to make sure that was 339 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.599 not the case. I really dislike how they traded him 340 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:28.839 in this story. All I could think was regardless, like, yes, 341 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.000 all of this is true, and on some level, if 342 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.680 you're doing a picture about him, you do need to 343 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:38.160 show these parts of him, otherwise you're not doing a 344 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.599 true story. But I'm reiterating my points now and I'll 345 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.720 drop this. But my problem with this was that's all 346 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.359 they showed. All they showed was how creepy he was 347 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.240 around like that young piano player. That I really got 348 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:54.079 mad at that scene in the bathroom. I'm like, oh, Okay, 349 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.200 we have a middle aged, creepy gay man in a 350 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.480 bathroom with a cute young guy. You didn't have to 351 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.920 have this scene, but the implication of that scene are 352 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:07.119 very fucking clear. Anyway, I will drop that. I will say, 353 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:11.039 let's let's introduce a new topic. Andrew Scott won an award. 354 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:12.559 I can't remember the acting award. I think it was 355 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:14.960 a British Acting Award for his part, and he was 356 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.119 the best part in the movie. 357 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:19.519 He's very good. And the only thing that I don't 358 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.039 like is that they again because they need to explain things. 359 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.279 They need to tell the audience what happened. Uh, they 360 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.279 they switch on a dime, their their their conversation. 361 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:32.640 Well that's the theatrical part of it, where it's like, 362 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.759 none of these conversations are natural. The people don't talk 363 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:36.119 like that. 364 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.720 Like they go from like yes, remember when we did that? 365 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.119 To oh my god, you were drinking all the time, and. 366 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:44.599 Then affectionate like ten seconds I was going to play right. 367 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.960 The switch was so sharp that I was like, whoa 368 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:50.200 that that doesn't make sense in a conversation. 369 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:52.319 That's you know, I'm glad you brought that up. I 370 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.079 actually forgot about that part of it again. And at 371 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.720 the act if they're up on a stage, right, those 372 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.319 sorts of character turns. You know, conversations in plays will 373 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.960 ramble and go all over the place and and people 374 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.519 will get angry and cry and lay it. But when 375 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.000 you do that on screen in these short lived, you know, vignettes, 376 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.000 it looks weird. It's like no one's having a normal 377 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.279 emotional reactions some of the stuff that he said. People 378 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:20.519 are just kind of like gently smiling, and I'm like, no, 379 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:22.799 he just said something really fucked up, Like why are 380 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:23.200 you all? 381 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:26.480 I understand why. They're like, like, he's thinking, do you 382 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.039 want to do that that? You know? Do you want 383 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:31.160 to do that? You know Connecticut Yankee again? And then 384 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.480 we had more songs and he's like, sure, well let's 385 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.920 do and it's an interesting conversation, kind of mala conversation. 386 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.319 All of a sudden, it's like, yeah, but you're not 387 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:40.400 gonna drink, You're not gonna show up, and I'm gonna 388 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:41.039 have to call you a mother. 389 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.519 The switch is so because they want to pack in 390 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:44.720 every bit. 391 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.319 Of that, because they want to tell you what happened. Yeah, 392 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.400 and uh it feels like yeah, it doesn't feel sometimes. 393 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.519 It feels like a Wikipedia entry. It doesn't feel But 394 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.519 my point of bringing up Andrew Scott is that I 395 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.240 think that was the movie, a movie with those two 396 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.559 men that night, interacting with each and I think you 397 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:06.480 could have had a ninety minute movie out of that 398 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.880 it's and that's basically the second act. Second act is 399 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.240 Richard Rodgers' first act is Lorenz Heart alone at the bar, 400 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.519 just rambling, and then the third act is him and 401 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:24.240