WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Last week was Halloween, and this week equally as unnerving.

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<v Speaker 1>Those of us in the United States have a major

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<v Speaker 1>choice to make on Tuesday. There are those who believe

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<v Speaker 1>that they have an eternal being telling them how to

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<v Speaker 1>run their lives, and because of that, they have the

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<v Speaker 1>right to tell others how to run theirs. Don't believe them.

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<v Speaker 1>There are those who believe that they get to declare

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<v Speaker 1>God's rightful candidate or policies, and they have a divine

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<v Speaker 1>right to make others obey. They are wrong. There is

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<v Speaker 1>no higher power and control of the election. No matter

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<v Speaker 1>how it ends up, we are the ones who impact

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<v Speaker 1>the outcome. We are both free to decide our futures

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<v Speaker 1>without the interference of some mystical being, and responsible for

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<v Speaker 1>how the future ends up. So, no matter what we

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<v Speaker 1>wake up to on Wednesday, know that the future is

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<v Speaker 1>up to us, and I for one am not giving up.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you think what I said is damnable? Heresy?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think I should have the right to be

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<v Speaker 1>a heretic? Give us a call because the show is

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<v Speaker 1>starting now.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome, Welcome. It is Sunday in twenty twenty four. I

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<v Speaker 2>am your host, objectively Dan and joining me today is

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<v Speaker 2>our very own Sophia for another episode of Talk He Theen.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a live call in show and it is

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<v Speaker 2>a product of the Atheist Community of ass Day five

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<v Speaker 2>oh one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion

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<v Speaker 2>of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of

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<v Speaker 2>religion and government. And we would love to talk to

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<v Speaker 2>you today if you'd like to talk to us in

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<v Speaker 2>our damnable heathen ways, the number for that is five

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<v Speaker 2>one two nine nine to one nine two four two,

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<v Speaker 2>or you can call through your computer at tiny nott

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<v Speaker 2>cc slash call thh and again I'm here with Sophia.

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<v Speaker 2>Today's Sophia. What's going on? How's how's it hanging?

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<v Speaker 1>This is going all right? You?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no foreseeable consequences to the future of this country

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<v Speaker 2>in the nearby, say next couple of days or so, right,

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<v Speaker 2>No big events or anything. We're a nonprofit organization. Politics

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<v Speaker 2>don't exist in this space.

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<v Speaker 1>We're just you know, we're just speaking very abstractly about

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<v Speaker 1>when people need to make decisions, the things that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>impact their decision making a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, here's here's here's a here's our policy statement.

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<v Speaker 2>People should make informed decisions. That's that's what we say.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, Yeah, everything's going great, going good. Life is

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<v Speaker 2>happening at an accelerating rate, and I don't like it.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems to be the running theme of just being

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<v Speaker 2>an adult, I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, I also think it's a theme of

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<v Speaker 1>the last couple of months of the year, Like once

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<v Speaker 1>you hit October, there's just break connect till January and

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<v Speaker 1>then yeah, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>A busy time of year for everybody, you know. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but anyway, we have, we already got callers out the

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<v Speaker 2>gate ready to talk to us. But first before we

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<v Speaker 2>do that, we should talk about our talk Heathen to

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<v Speaker 2>Me segment where we got questions that we ask you

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<v Speaker 2>guys are prompts that we want you guys to answer

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<v Speaker 2>in the comments below. And last week we asked why

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<v Speaker 2>is God so jealous? Why is he so jealous? And

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to figure out why or our top three

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<v Speaker 2>answers here. Number three is coming from Belter g l J,

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<v Speaker 2>who says, why is God jealous? Because Jesus gets to

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<v Speaker 2>marry all the nuns? That's true. Did you know this?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you notice That's the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I did at one point know this I've

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<v Speaker 1>actually been to like the I forget the name of

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<v Speaker 1>the process when nuns officially become nuns, when they've they're

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<v Speaker 1>done with their probation nunnery. Yeah it is.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not as much alcohol, but yeah, yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of Jesus gets a lot of wives that scenario.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how people feel about that, but anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>I spend time with all of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Just an observation, Just an observation. Number two comes from

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<v Speaker 2>x million, who says God is jealous because even though

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<v Speaker 2>women cry out his name in the bedroom, he's not

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<v Speaker 2>who they've chosen to be with, except for the nuns apparently,

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that's that's also a great funny observation, nick

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<v Speaker 2>million is. Number one comes from Less than Lucid, though,

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<v Speaker 2>who says, why is God jealous? Because humans get free

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<v Speaker 2>will and God has to pay for it, which is

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<v Speaker 2>just that's a great dad joke that I am surprised

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<v Speaker 2>I've never heard of before, But I really like that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot He's got. We got free will and he

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<v Speaker 2>has to pay for it. That's so funny. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know those are good. It's pretty good. We got some

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<v Speaker 2>good ones this week, so thank you. Guys for giving

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<v Speaker 2>your answers for this week, be prompt for this next week,

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<v Speaker 2>there is going to be what would a modern day

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<v Speaker 2>plague be? And yeah, okay, don't say COVID. Okay, that's obvious.

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<v Speaker 2>Come on, I want you guys to be creative with

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<v Speaker 2>this one, Okay, So uh, answer your answer below in

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<v Speaker 2>the comments and we will read the top three answers up.

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<v Speaker 2>But before we move on, Sophia, what would a modern

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<v Speaker 2>day plague be? What's a good mon day plague?

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<v Speaker 1>Christian content farms on TikTok, I think that's a modern

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<v Speaker 1>day plague.

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<v Speaker 2>You're too real for that. You're too real for that,

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<v Speaker 2>Sophia saying.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm staring at the camera with a verse figure you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, for me, it's a taktok videos where they have

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<v Speaker 2>like two different things playing at once. You know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>talking about where they got like a game of subway

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<v Speaker 2>surfers on one thing and then the actual person speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, this can't be good for us. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>that's not great. But yeah, leave your best answers below

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<v Speaker 2>and we might read yours next week if it's good

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<v Speaker 2>enough to be in our top three. So with that,

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<v Speaker 2>I want to quickly, very quickly go to the crew

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<v Speaker 2>camp that helps make this show happen every single week,

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<v Speaker 2>and thank the folks for working behind the scenes because

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<v Speaker 2>we always love our crew here and an upside down

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<v Speaker 2>view of the we are the Stranger Things world at

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<v Speaker 2>the Atheist Community of Austin. I have no idea if

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<v Speaker 2>that's on purpose. Yeah, that's definitely on purpose.

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<v Speaker 3>That's Vern just fucking around at the studio.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a good bit. That's a good bit. Thanks

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<v Speaker 2>for that, Vern. But yeah, you know, the crew is

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<v Speaker 2>the real the real heroes that help put us on

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<v Speaker 2>the air for some reason so we can talk for

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<v Speaker 2>you know, an hour and a half every week. So

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<v Speaker 2>thank you crew for doing that. That being said, at least,

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<v Speaker 2>like I said, I mean a Sophia, we got lots

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<v Speaker 2>of lots of calls ready for us to go.

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<v Speaker 1>You ready, I'm ready. I mean I'm as ready as

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to be. What am I going to do now?

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, let's do it. Let's see is there anybody

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<v Speaker 2>you want to talk to? You first? I know you

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<v Speaker 2>got that call Q open because I see a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of good ones.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I want to be I'm going for

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<v Speaker 1>faith in myself right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, surprise me. Uh, I think Jackie, you want to

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<v Speaker 2>do Jackie? Sure, Okay, let's talk to Jackie Jackie from Mississippi.

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<v Speaker 2>You are live on talk Heathen today. What's going on?

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, how's it going. I'm doing well?

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<v Speaker 5>How about you?

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<v Speaker 2>Doing well? Doing well? Again? It's a fine Sunday evening

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<v Speaker 2>with no immediate consequences for the future of this country

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<v Speaker 2>coming up the next few days, whatsoever. Everything is great,

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<v Speaker 2>no anxiety on my end or any of the other

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<v Speaker 2>hosts or anybody. So it's really fine, Jackie. How about you.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm going pretty good. I don't took a treat, but

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<v Speaker 5>I did do have a little bit of candy, not.

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<v Speaker 2>That much fantastic. I would hope you don't trick a treat.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's interesting when I had. Okay, so, okay, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to tangent here. But you know, Halloween was

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<v Speaker 2>the other day. There was a couple and I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>judging here, but there was a couple that came by

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<v Speaker 2>with a wagon of like kids that two kids that

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<v Speaker 2>could not have been older than like one years old,

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<v Speaker 2>and the mom and the dad were dressed up and

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<v Speaker 2>they came to the door. They had three bags that

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted us to give to One was for one kid,

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<v Speaker 2>one was for the other kid, and one was for

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<v Speaker 2>the adults. And I was like, I'm pretty sure those

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<v Speaker 2>kids are too old to be even eating candy, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think you guys are just running a scheme here.

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<v Speaker 2>But I did go given to their ploy because it's Halloween.

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<v Speaker 2>We got to get rid of all this candy. But

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<v Speaker 2>that was a very strange experience. So anyway, I just

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<v Speaker 2>thought i'd share that even classic too young, It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think you should be given your one year

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<v Speaker 2>old kid cats. Maybe that's just me, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think that's a thing. I don't think you should do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, Yeah, I think you know it

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<v Speaker 1>would just do the play. Oh sorry, go ahead, Jackie.

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<v Speaker 5>Basically, I just wanted to say, so forty argument I

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<v Speaker 5>would like to present today. I'm going to be presenting

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<v Speaker 5>Saint Thom's Aquinas's argument for the distance of God from degrees,

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<v Speaker 5>So argues of you guys familiar with the argument, or

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<v Speaker 5>do I have to rehash to syllogism.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been a minute since I've talked about Thomas Aquinas.

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<v Speaker 2>But for the sake of the audience, it's probably great

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<v Speaker 2>to give a summary.

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<v Speaker 5>So basically, the premise one is objects have properties the

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<v Speaker 5>greater and lesser degrees. Would you agree with that?

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<v Speaker 2>I love Thomas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we would. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's better instead of asking us if we agree for

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<v Speaker 2>each premise that you go ahead and give the full

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<v Speaker 2>argument and maybe we can talk about it from there.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So promise one, objects have properties, delate less and

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<v Speaker 5>greater degrees. Promise too. If there is an object with

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<v Speaker 5>the lesser degree, there has to be an object with

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<v Speaker 5>the greatest possible degree. Premisterry is because there has to

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<v Speaker 5>be an object with the greatest possible degree. There has

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<v Speaker 5>to be an object with all greatest possible degree of

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<v Speaker 5>properties and time before God must exist because of this,

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<v Speaker 5>God being defined as something with the greatest possible degrees

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<v Speaker 5>or of the greatest possible properties.

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<v Speaker 2>What are the greatest possible properties?

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<v Speaker 5>So there's things like degrees of goodness, so something very bad,

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<v Speaker 5>something medium, something really good, and then the greatest possible

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<v Speaker 5>good is God. So God is the manifestation of the

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<v Speaker 5>greatest possible of these properties.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I can't believe people are convinced by this

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<v Speaker 2>back at Aquinas's time, and I'm very confused why people

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<v Speaker 2>are still convinced by this day. It's a very subjective argument,

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<v Speaker 2>don't you think, to talk about, like what's the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>degree of good and the greatestgree of all these different properties?

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<v Speaker 2>And like properties can be a lot of different things

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<v Speaker 2>like it it can include yeah, things like omnipotence, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>but it can also include like invisibility or like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, what's who's to say that non existence is

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<v Speaker 2>a is the greatest property? What if? What if God

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<v Speaker 2>just has the greatest property being non existence? Like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. It's very subjective, it's very weird. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>find it, say, I don't know. What do you think, Sophia, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that one you run into the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>you're attempting to define things like good outside of the

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<v Speaker 1>realm of God. So when you say, like, God is good,

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<v Speaker 1>that cannot be possible if you're still trying to say,

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<v Speaker 1>like I if you're trying to define goodness as outside

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<v Speaker 1>of God. So we're saying we as humans can understand

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<v Speaker 1>goodness to a degree, right, and that God, we can

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<v Speaker 1>apply that to God essentially, and that we can understand

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<v Speaker 1>God as being good, but doesn't that mean it's really

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<v Speaker 1>resting on our conception of God. So even if we

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<v Speaker 1>were to sort of buy into that, it doesn't specify

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<v Speaker 1>as objectively Dan said, what these properties are. But if

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<v Speaker 1>we were to take any particular property, then we're making

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<v Speaker 1>up our own God by just deciding whatever it is

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<v Speaker 1>that he would be the most of. And it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of as I'm hearing, it feels like God equals just

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<v Speaker 1>the most stuff. God is the most stuff of all

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff, and I find that not particularly compelling. We

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<v Speaker 1>also have an amazing comment from our backup hoots today, Kelly,

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<v Speaker 1>but in the chat that doesn't that imply also there

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<v Speaker 1>would be greater or lesser gods, that if it's just

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<v Speaker 1>a rung of being ness, that you would have things

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<v Speaker 1>that are greater than us and lesser than us. And

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<v Speaker 1>it just feels like it opens into this bizarre and

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<v Speaker 1>confusing realm of God's are stuff, they are more stuff

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<v Speaker 1>or less stuff, and we get to define what that

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, yeah, yeah, go ahead, Jack.

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<v Speaker 5>Do you just disagree with the premise that do you

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<v Speaker 5>disagree with the premise that if there are degrees of

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<v Speaker 5>goodness or it have the greatest possible goodness.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we even have the ability to define goodness.

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<v Speaker 1>So to get degrees into the something we don't even

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<v Speaker 1>have the ability to define is how would we even

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<v Speaker 1>move on from there? How do we reason from that point?

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<v Speaker 2>The only thing we can define into existence or social constructs.

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<v Speaker 2>And unless we're arguing that God is a social construct,

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<v Speaker 2>which I don't think is what you're arguing, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think what people who follow this argument are arguing,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not very convincing. I can't just say I can't

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<v Speaker 2>say that volcanoes exist through these games of definitions, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Like most people would say that's pretty absurd, So why

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<v Speaker 2>would I Why would I say it could do the

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<v Speaker 2>same for God? Like, it doesn't make sense to me

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<v Speaker 2>that somehow, through this sort of logical, you know, belly

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<v Speaker 2>button stearing, we can just kind of figure out that

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<v Speaker 2>God exists just by you know, saying, oh, well, he's

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest of all possible stuff, because there has to

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<v Speaker 2>be the greatest of all possible stuff. I just don't

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<v Speaker 2>find that convincing.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, fair enough, but it's just a matter of definitions.

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<v Speaker 5>God is defined as that with the most greatness making qualities,

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<v Speaker 5>then if there's something with the most warning to who properties,

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<v Speaker 5>that would have to be God by definition.

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<v Speaker 1>And isn't this entire argument just an argument of definitions?

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<v Speaker 1>So to disagree with us on the premise that our

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<v Speaker 1>definitions are somehow worse than the definitions and the basic

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<v Speaker 1>like in the I guess syllogism of Thomas Aquinas Like Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess we just don't like the same definitions, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's still not convincing.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, Well, so you would disagree that God is

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<v Speaker 5>traditionally defined by religious people as you know, the greatest

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<v Speaker 5>possible being or greatest basis for being.

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<v Speaker 1>I would disagree with that. I think we have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different particularly religions with many different gods, because

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<v Speaker 1>then they actually have wars with each other, so there

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<v Speaker 1>isn't sort of an assured outcome. I think even if

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at the Old Testament, God seems to rely

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<v Speaker 1>on human instruments a whole lot, and it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>like he's capable of doing everything. So no, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>really get the impression that God is defined as the

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<v Speaker 1>greatest of all possible beings ever, or consider even Mormons

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<v Speaker 1>where you can become a god of your own planet.

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<v Speaker 1>So is there a mega God of all the gods?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is it just the God of our planet that

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<v Speaker 1>we're actually beholden to. So yeah, I just don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Thomas Aquinas's understanding of God. But Thomas Aquinas

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<v Speaker 2>is a medieval philosopher. They had different ideas about God

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<v Speaker 2>before the Renaissance, right before we had the inspirations of

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<v Speaker 2>the Greek, you know, ideas of God and putting him

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<v Speaker 2>into these kinds of syllogisms, right, there were all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of ideas of God before Thomas Aquinas decided, Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to make I'm going to make the real best

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<v Speaker 2>argument though, So yeah, I don't even think most people

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<v Speaker 2>in Christian history have followed this, and even those that

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<v Speaker 2>do have followed obviously, Aquinas being one of the most,

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<v Speaker 2>if not the most influential Christian theologian of all time. Still,

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<v Speaker 2>he ask the average Christian, Hey, what do you think

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<v Speaker 2>about Thomas Aquinas his case for the years of God.

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<v Speaker 2>They're going to stare at you, wonder what the heck

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. I just don't think most people think

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<v Speaker 2>about God in these kinds of ways only academics, and

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<v Speaker 2>even then a limited sort of those I do appreciate.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotta say, I mean, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's basically what you're saying is, even if there

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<v Speaker 5>is the greatest possible being, you would disagree that it

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<v Speaker 5>would have the attributes that classical theism puts on God.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm saying that I can't know anything about his attributes

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<v Speaker 2>if there is the greatest possible being, just by saying

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<v Speaker 2>to these kinds of logic games, it doesn't really tell

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<v Speaker 2>me anything about them. These are just kind of human

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<v Speaker 2>concepts that we're just kind of thrown around with our words.

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<v Speaker 2>If in order for me to really know something about

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<v Speaker 2>a being and its properties in its existence, I have

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<v Speaker 2>to make observations, and I have to infer through reason

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<v Speaker 2>but also through other people's observations, right, and their own

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<v Speaker 2>conclusions what kinds of properties that thing has. It can't

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<v Speaker 2>come from just the mind, right, That's not how I

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<v Speaker 2>can really know things, at least things that don't exist

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<v Speaker 2>as social constructs, as I mentioned, right. So yes, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that's that's really all I had to say

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<v Speaker 2>on that.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it's kind of like saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if I can conceive of a unicorn. If I lean

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<v Speaker 1>into the fact that unicorns exist, doesn't imply there'd be

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<v Speaker 1>the greatest possible unicorn. It would have every perfect attribute

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<v Speaker 1>that I could ever give to unicorns. Like that's really

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<v Speaker 1>dependent upon my opinions. If I believe in ghosts, then

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<v Speaker 1>there's the greatest possible ghost possibly out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, But those.

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<v Speaker 5>Things assume that goes or unicorns exist. But the greatest

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<v Speaker 5>possible beings, Well, the thing is, we know there are

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<v Speaker 5>degrees of greatness, clearly.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do we know how do we know that

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest possible being exists?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, clearly murder is worse than not murder, and clearly no, it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Not just legally defined, it's just.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a legal yes, yes concept, Yes, thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for saying that. And also, God kills people all the time, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and also violates human laws on people's deaths. Right, So

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<v Speaker 2>God has committed murder straight up, right, he has violated

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<v Speaker 2>the the the states at the time, right concepts of

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<v Speaker 2>what it means to take someone's life away, lawfully or not. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>you can say whether it's justified or not. It wasn't lawful,

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<v Speaker 2>So there you go, right, so it's not clear to

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<v Speaker 2>me which one is the other based on that.

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<v Speaker 5>So so you just disagree that there are degrees of properties.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically unless there's something to measure them, I guess. I mean, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we can say something is smaller than another thing, because

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<v Speaker 1>that's something that we can measure. But I think that

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<v Speaker 1>it's you can't how do how does one measure greatness

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<v Speaker 1>without getting into a definition like slash?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, Yeah, I don't disagree that there are

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<v Speaker 2>degrees of things. I do disagree on what the heck

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<v Speaker 2>greatest means. That's that's always going to be subjective. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>how many greatest hits, how many greatest song charts and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff are out there, and people are finding about that

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<v Speaker 2>stuff all the time. Like that, nobody can agree on

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<v Speaker 2>even that stuff, let alone what the heck of greatest

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<v Speaker 2>being is supposed to be. That's that's clearly a very

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<v Speaker 2>subjective thing. Okay, I have.

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<v Speaker 5>Sent I'll also consider your argument, and I'll probably look

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<v Speaker 5>into counter arguments about two a cliance's arguments and degrees.

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<v Speaker 5>But you do have an interesting perspective about you kind

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<v Speaker 5>of go circular into your definition.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that I appreciate the point you make

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<v Speaker 1>here of looking into counter arguments. That's how I always

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<v Speaker 1>choose to understand things. If I'm learning an argument, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>if I get excited about it, If I get really

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<v Speaker 1>attached to an idea, it's important for me to start

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<v Speaker 1>looking into people who critique that idea because I know

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm getting emotionally invested in this notion and I

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<v Speaker 1>need something to balance that out. So, yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's a good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like that. Call Jackie, anything else you want

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<v Speaker 2>to have before we let go?

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<v Speaker 5>Just one final question, So on that question about looking

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<v Speaker 5>kind of arguments, do you have any recommendations for philosophers,

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<v Speaker 5>specifically continental philosophers, that you think would be good for

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<v Speaker 5>me to read upon.

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<v Speaker 2>If we're talking about continental philosophers, I mean, there are

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<v Speaker 2>lots of responses to Aquinas, but in particular, you're probably

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<v Speaker 2>going to be more interested in theologians responses rather than

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<v Speaker 2>just general continental philosophers. I think like most of the

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<v Speaker 2>time when we talk about continental philosophy, we're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>philosophy that's examining other things besides like general theology. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess kirkit Guard is the first thing that comes to mind.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that directly references Aquinas and maybe Nietzsche, but

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<v Speaker 2>Nietzsche's more interested in Christianity as a whole and not

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<v Speaker 2>really Aquinas as whole shtick. So yeah, Kirker Guard, go,

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<v Speaker 2>kirk Guard, there you go. That's my recommendation. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll let you go now. Thanks, Jackie, have a good one. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a great call actually, because short sweet to

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<v Speaker 2>the point, he had a point of view. We disagreed,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was like, all right, I'm gonna look into it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it, that's the ideal. That is the greatest talk

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<v Speaker 2>heathen call. Actually, hold on, wait a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm not a philosopher person as much, so

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<v Speaker 1>it is fun for me to be like, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>give me the argument. Let's just go with what comes

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<v Speaker 1>to mind. And so I appreciate that you do know

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<v Speaker 1>so much and do have recommendations right off, because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>like the follow your own logic, see what comes. But

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<v Speaker 1>that's not my recommendation all the time. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, like like general, philosophers just aren't covering theology

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<v Speaker 2>as much because like the other theologians are covering theology,

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<v Speaker 2>and yeah, I mean they do count as philosophers in

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<v Speaker 2>a way. But that's like a very particular kind of philosopher, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just not the same thing. I guess folks who

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<v Speaker 2>study that kind of sts So I don't it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting and there's a lot of depth to it.

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<v Speaker 2>But like Aquinas is, like definitely there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>responses to Aquinas and stuff. There's a lot of Christians

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<v Speaker 2>today that say, yeah, Aquinas's arguments are like garbage, which

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're also garbage, you know, to just give

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<v Speaker 2>perspective there, But I don't count because I'm not a

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<v Speaker 2>real theologian anyway. No, it was a great call, actually

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest of calls. I think if we were if

418
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.640
<v Speaker 2>we were to logic our way out of this one

419
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Sofia and we were to figure out what the greatest

420
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:28.880
<v Speaker 2>of talking thing calls, I think we would point to

421
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.440
<v Speaker 2>that call with Jackie just now. So that's my take.

422
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think did do it. I guess I treat

423
00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.440
<v Speaker 1>it like, you know, greatest in you know, it hasn't

424
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.319
<v Speaker 1>made my heart feel like swell as much, but that's

425
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>so subjective that if I use that as a as

426
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.839
<v Speaker 1>a method for greatness, like Diesel's heart swell percentage, the

427
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.680
<v Speaker 1>anti grinchiness of a call. I feel like that's that's

428
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.839
<v Speaker 1>a hard fie. So yeah, it makes your heart grow.

429
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.880
<v Speaker 2>That's a good man. That's good meter. We need a

430
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.960
<v Speaker 2>meter for that. On screen. I think good graphic, you know,

431
00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.559
<v Speaker 2>is this call making Sophia's heart grow, you know? And

432
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:07.799
<v Speaker 2>a little graphic that gets bigger and you can like

433
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:09.599
<v Speaker 2>change it. These are ideas.

434
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:09.759
<v Speaker 6>Crew.

435
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:11.759
<v Speaker 2>We need to talk. We need to talk after the show. Okay,

436
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.240
<v Speaker 2>we need to talk. Let me get this out of

437
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.240
<v Speaker 2>the way. I want to talk to you guys about

438
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:18.559
<v Speaker 2>our brick fundraiser. You guys have been hearing about this

439
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:20.759
<v Speaker 2>if you've been watching the last few weeks. We are

440
00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:23.599
<v Speaker 2>in phase two of our brick fundraiser and we're giving

441
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>on some highlights for some of our standout orders we received.

442
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:31.359
<v Speaker 2>This week's featured brick comes from Rosalind from Virginia and

443
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>it is in honor of Dave Warnock and we want

444
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to thank you for your purchase. And I did mention

445
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:38.480
<v Speaker 2>this on Truth Wanted. I actually went to Nashville recently

446
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.240
<v Speaker 2>because I went to Sidney Davis Junior Junior's wedding shout

447
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 2>outs and I talked to some folks who are also

448
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.319
<v Speaker 2>there in the community because Dave's that kind of in

449
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.880
<v Speaker 2>the close to the area. And Dave's doing fine. I

450
00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:51.799
<v Speaker 2>know a lot of people ask how's Dave doing. He's

451
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.599
<v Speaker 2>just off the internet right now. He just doesn't want

452
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.359
<v Speaker 2>to be on their d But he's doing okay. So

453
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, any updates that he wants to give, that's

454
00:21:57.559 --> 00:21:59.920
<v Speaker 2>his business. But please don't send him messages asking if

455
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:01.920
<v Speaker 2>all right, because he gets those every day and the

456
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:03.920
<v Speaker 2>people that are close to him they know they're they're

457
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>in the loop. So but he does say thank you.

458
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I think to everyone who who has been concerned about him,

459
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.440
<v Speaker 2>he's just he's getting I think he's getting annoyed. I

460
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 2>think he's he annoyed by all the people messaging him,

461
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.519
<v Speaker 2>which I would to But this fine. It's out of love.

462
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.880
<v Speaker 2>And so thanks to folks who've been keeping up with

463
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.240
<v Speaker 2>Dave's situation. With that being said, you can get your

464
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.319
<v Speaker 2>own brick if you want to support the ACA and

465
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:28.319
<v Speaker 2>help literally build the building, turning down CC slash ACA

466
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.000
<v Speaker 2>bricks for that. Also, another way you can support the

467
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.920
<v Speaker 2>show is by becoming a channel member. If you click

468
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.240
<v Speaker 2>join below the button below below the video. Not below

469
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.160
<v Speaker 2>the button the button is the joint button. But anyway,

470
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.160
<v Speaker 2>you'll get custom chat emotes, early access to clips and shorts,

471
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and you will help perpetuate the mission of Tom Keithan

472
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.039
<v Speaker 2>in the atheist community of Austin. And what what greater

473
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.599
<v Speaker 2>mission is that? If we're going to have greater missions,

474
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I would say that's the that's the best one. Go

475
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.279
<v Speaker 2>to all missions exactly. We will read super chats today,

476
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:58.599
<v Speaker 2>by the way, if you have a question or comment,

477
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.119
<v Speaker 2>as long as it's cut appropriate. So get those super

478
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.960
<v Speaker 2>chats in if you like. And of course you know,

479
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.680
<v Speaker 2>liking and subscribing it's also that's the whole YouTuber thing.

480
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.400
<v Speaker 2>You should probably do that if you want to help

481
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:09.680
<v Speaker 2>us out. If you don't want to help us out,

482
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 2>don't do those things, but maybe do them anyway, just

483
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.279
<v Speaker 2>because I don't know, I won't tell you what to do.

484
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Last thing, last thing, last thing before we move on.

485
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:20.160
<v Speaker 2>We do have merch okay, so tying out cc slash

486
00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:25.119
<v Speaker 2>merch aca. If you want to see the new pins, backpacks, onesies,

487
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>youth teas, you name it. If you want, you know,

488
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.359
<v Speaker 2>to celebrate your little heathens in your life, why not

489
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.279
<v Speaker 2>consider it a onesie for Christmas huh so uh. Anyway,

490
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 2>that's that's all the announcements I think I got right now, Questions, comments,

491
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:43.039
<v Speaker 2>or concerns, Sophia.

492
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I just love that there's onesies. I feel like the

493
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>dripping bloody letters does feel like giving birth. So that's good.

494
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:51.599
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's really representative of the experience of creating

495
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:52.559
<v Speaker 1>a little heathen.

496
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>At gift for your grandma. Yeah, give me your grandma

497
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.839
<v Speaker 2>a talk heathen shirt. Yeah, I love it, you know.

498
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:05.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I know that we have some super chats.

499
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you want to read those? Sure?

500
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:12.559
<v Speaker 1>So first we have Kelly Laughlin, our wonderful backup post today.

501
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:14.839
<v Speaker 1>He's been a member for two years, spent five dollars,

502
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 1>and is a cruel, cruel person. Because this is the

503
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.799
<v Speaker 1>super chat, I saw Susie sitting in a shoe shine shop.

504
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Where she shines, she sits, and where she sits, she shines.

505
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>Love you both, at least will love you both.

506
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 2>You did really good though, that was you got ninety

507
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.759
<v Speaker 2>percent on that, I think.

508
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:35.839
<v Speaker 1>So I really used to read a lot of like

509
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Shakespeare in plays and whatever, and so I like read

510
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.960
<v Speaker 1>ahead with my eyes and my mouth usually will get it,

511
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:43.480
<v Speaker 1>but I have to like go into sort of a

512
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.319
<v Speaker 1>like blank mind and state.

513
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we were literally practicing talking to us just before

514
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:50.599
<v Speaker 2>the show, at least I was. And I'm going to

515
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.319
<v Speaker 2>try this one right now too. Ready, I saw Susie

516
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.559
<v Speaker 2>sitting in a suit. Fuck, I already messed up. I

517
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.079
<v Speaker 2>saw Susie sitting in a shoe shine shop. Where she shines,

518
00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.440
<v Speaker 2>she sits, and where she sits, she shines. Okay, I

519
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>got it at the end there, But damn, that's a

520
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.680
<v Speaker 2>hard That's a tough one, Kelly. You're evil for that. Anyway,

521
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:09.960
<v Speaker 2>we do have more super check. Do you want to

522
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.519
<v Speaker 2>read the other one?

523
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Eliah Shana silver Bow. I hope I said that right,

524
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.400
<v Speaker 1>sent five dollars. So three sixty degrees is a full circle.

525
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.799
<v Speaker 1>Seven hundred and twenty degrees is two full circles. The

526
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>greatest possible degrees is just going in circles. Yeah, finally

527
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.119
<v Speaker 1>got into existence. That is a very good point, you know.

528
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:30.960
<v Speaker 2>What they say? You know? Okay, so there used to

529
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 2>be a thing, and this is how you know I'm

530
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.799
<v Speaker 2>a dude. They grew up in the two thousands, But

531
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.519
<v Speaker 2>there used to be a war between Xbox and PlayStation three.

532
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 2>It was a big deal. Okay, and people you say, yeah,

533
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:44.839
<v Speaker 2>when you when you look at the Xbox three sixty,

534
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>it makes you want to turn three sixty degrees and

535
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 2>walk away, which is like it doesn't make sense because

536
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 2>you would just like turn back and looked at the thing.

537
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.920
<v Speaker 2>But that was like a thing people said. And I

538
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.160
<v Speaker 2>just I just that's just what my brain goes to.

539
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.960
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not going to go on a tangent about

540
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>love is blind and how there was sort of a

541
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.079
<v Speaker 1>thing about that, but just I just want everyone to

542
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>know I could I just you all know if that's

543
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:08.759
<v Speaker 1>a threat or what.

544
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:10.799
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I don't know if that's a threat

545
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:15.160
<v Speaker 2>or not either, But I'm intrigued. And well, I'm going

546
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>to go.

547
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Back to the next super chat NERO and I R

548
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.359
<v Speaker 1>R who sent five dollars and said, so by Thomas

549
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:26.359
<v Speaker 1>Aquinas argument, does that mean God has the greatest possible

550
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.920
<v Speaker 1>degrees of maliciousness and non existence?

551
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I bring up the non existence thing. I guess

552
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>they would say maliciousness doesn't count because they have the

553
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.279
<v Speaker 2>grace theories of good, But then why not have the

554
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>gray series of malicious It's like it's it's very arbitrary,

555
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 2>very arbitrary. I don't get it.

556
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:42.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it would also sort of imply that there must

557
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.720
<v Speaker 1>be a complete counter God, like a fully a being

558
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 1>as powerful as God that is fully evil or fully

559
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 1>non existent. Right, you have like a spider.

560
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Web, why not have the least degrees? Right, the grace

561
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.039
<v Speaker 2>degree exists, why not the least degree?

562
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.039
<v Speaker 1>And just thinking about like, yeah, it's a really cool

563
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:01.200
<v Speaker 1>premise for a fantasy novel, but it is something I

564
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:05.079
<v Speaker 1>really feel like. It's a compelling argument for belief. And

565
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 1>then we have Miranda Renzberger who we love member for

566
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.400
<v Speaker 1>six months, who sent five dollars and said God can't

567
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.880
<v Speaker 1>defeat iron chariots. Humans can build iron chariots. Who's greater now?

568
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 1>And I imagine like a mic job here, like woo,

569
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Who's greater now?

570
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's a deep cut. That's a real thing. Book

571
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>of Judges, very being Book of Judges. They say that

572
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:28.960
<v Speaker 2>God's the army of people for the Israels were defeated

573
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.160
<v Speaker 2>because of iron chariots, which is the implication that God

574
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.720
<v Speaker 2>can't deal with them. And there's a lot of reasoning,

575
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:36.319
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of study as to why it is,

576
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.720
<v Speaker 2>but that's for a different time. So anyway, and.

577
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.400
<v Speaker 1>They say atheists don't read the Bible.

578
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, to be clear, I mean I haven't really.

579
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.599
<v Speaker 2>The only time I read it now is directly in

580
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.839
<v Speaker 2>response to people. So I don't know. I don't know.

581
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.319
<v Speaker 1>There is something that I was a great Bible read

582
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 1>at a time. I got a lot of candies from

583
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.319
<v Speaker 1>memorizing versus like you did back in the day and

584
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Sunday School, and I remember, we're getting tired of knowing

585
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.240
<v Speaker 1>more versus and understanding more of their context than the

586
00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:08.440
<v Speaker 1>people leading the yeasty are part of. So you know,

587
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:10.640
<v Speaker 1>that's a little stuck there after all.

588
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I knew people that were really into the whole

589
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.200
<v Speaker 2>you got to memorize. If you memorize the whole verse,

590
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.640
<v Speaker 2>you get to compete in Bible verse competitions and probably

591
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.599
<v Speaker 2>get more candy. And I hated that stuff. I don't

592
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.720
<v Speaker 2>know why that was like the least appealing thing to me.

593
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:28.519
<v Speaker 2>It's just like memorizing it word by word, and it.

594
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Kind of creates this this pedantry that I'm a better

595
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Christian because I can throw out more christian e sounding

596
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:37.599
<v Speaker 1>things than you know you've watched.

597
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:43.799
<v Speaker 2>I go ahead, you Christian peasants that don't know not peasants.

598
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.480
<v Speaker 2>I know, but I know, but like you're you're creating

599
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:48.480
<v Speaker 2>a peasantry because there is an upper You're part of

600
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the upper class of well, I know, Revelations twenty verse

601
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>thirty nine, my head, can you. I don't know.

602
00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:59.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why we become like little riddlers.

603
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.880
<v Speaker 2>I think the Shakespeare thing you mentioned earlier kind of

604
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>subconsciously infiltrated my brain a little bit.

605
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm a nerd and a door come

606
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:11.359
<v Speaker 1>all of those epithets.

607
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:16.119
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you'll beset on all sides by those who

608
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 2>see you. Now. I can't remember the rest because I'm

609
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>bad at that ship. Anyway, let's keep going. Let's talk

610
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 2>to Edouardo, who is calling to us from Brazil. Shout

611
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:32.319
<v Speaker 2>outs to Brazil. Brazil mentioned on the stream What's happened

612
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 2>in EDWARDO.

613
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.279
<v Speaker 4>I'm from Brazil, and uh, what I wanted to talk

614
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.519
<v Speaker 4>to you about, by the way, the thing of love

615
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.319
<v Speaker 4>love being blind. I got a kick out of it

616
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.000
<v Speaker 4>because I actually am blind, so oh.

617
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Love for you. Yeah, yeah, there you go.

618
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:57.359
<v Speaker 4>I got a hello kick out of it. Anyway, Uh,

619
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.759
<v Speaker 4>what I'm what I would talk about, I would probably

620
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.519
<v Speaker 4>be hated by his seers and ass but uh, it

621
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:08.200
<v Speaker 4>is a he is a philosophy sort of sort of

622
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:13.359
<v Speaker 4>a hybrid bets philosophy and religion that cause spirit spiritism.

623
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.519
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you've heard about it.

624
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I specifically have, at least not

625
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:19.640
<v Speaker 1>in the way that you're discussing it.

626
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 2>So, yes, I'm going to Wikipedia. I see spiritism which

627
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>links to a spiritismo, which is a term used in

628
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:29.799
<v Speaker 2>Latin America and the Caribbean referred to the popular belief

629
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:32.440
<v Speaker 2>that evolved and less evolved spirits can affect health l

630
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.279
<v Speaker 2>other aspects of human life. Is that what you're talking about?

631
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:42.839
<v Speaker 4>Yes, somewhat because oversimplification. So the thing is uh spirit

632
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:48.079
<v Speaker 4>is alanc which is the French guy who came up

633
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 4>with that. He claims to have this third revelation. But

634
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:56.079
<v Speaker 4>what is extraordinary about his his his claim is this

635
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.720
<v Speaker 4>he experienced away everything every every, not every, but all

636
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:05.480
<v Speaker 4>sorts of contradictions the Bible, you know, the display holding

637
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:12.680
<v Speaker 4>the miracles, and he actually says there are no miracles,

638
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:17.680
<v Speaker 4>and there are no miracles because everything that happens is natural.

639
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.480
<v Speaker 4>What happened and we didn't know are things that we

640
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 4>don't have the scientific knowledge yet. So for example, Lazarus,

641
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:29.880
<v Speaker 4>he came back from the dead, but he didn't actually

642
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:31.240
<v Speaker 4>came back from the dead.

643
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:31.880
<v Speaker 6>He was.

644
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 4>I think it's called narcole epsi. People seem to be

645
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.079
<v Speaker 4>bad and then they stay for sometimes for days like that,

646
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.160
<v Speaker 4>and people didn't know all the time, so they wrote

647
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.000
<v Speaker 4>about you know, so obviously it says.

648
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.920
<v Speaker 2>That not interrupt but like, at least what you're saying

649
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.680
<v Speaker 2>so far, that's not super controversial, at least for antheists.

650
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.799
<v Speaker 2>I think there are a lot of atheists that explain

651
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.880
<v Speaker 2>away stories like that. More broadly, specifically for the Jesus narrative.

652
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't even account most of those as even being

653
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.039
<v Speaker 2>real events. I just don't think a lot of the

654
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Bible describes like actual reality. But if you want to

655
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.039
<v Speaker 2>go that route and try to explain away, like oh,

656
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 2>what really happened with like the Red Sea Party, for example,

657
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 2>some people do like there are some naturalistic you know, uh,

658
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.440
<v Speaker 2>explanations you could point to for sure. So yeah, I

659
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:20.119
<v Speaker 2>don't think you're being that controversial.

660
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 4>Honestly, Well, well, heres you we are sort of a

661
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.839
<v Speaker 4>three percent of people who believe that. But the thing is, well,

662
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.079
<v Speaker 4>it tends that everything happened. But we we evolved with

663
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:40.240
<v Speaker 4>spirits evolved. And the thing that the language that was

664
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.680
<v Speaker 4>explained to us is because we were not soficically evolved.

665
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:49.480
<v Speaker 4>And people nowadays explain things like, for example, nobody one

666
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.720
<v Speaker 4>hundred years ago would understand if we explain what a

667
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 4>knyphone is, Yeah, that we can talk quite for example

668
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 4>from Rosil to the United States.

669
00:32:58.720 --> 00:32:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

670
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.960
<v Speaker 4>So they read that and then they they wrote it

671
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:07.039
<v Speaker 4>as as they understood it. So and and uh. The

672
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:11.759
<v Speaker 4>reason for the the the evil being together they good

673
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 4>is the question of free will. But interestingly enough, he

674
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 4>doesn't think that uh adam and existed what he says

675
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:24.079
<v Speaker 4>that we are we were exiled and people were exiled

676
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:28.400
<v Speaker 4>and uh and we were and the issues also we

677
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:32.279
<v Speaker 4>were somewhat evolved, but it came to displanet that's primitive

678
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 4>and everything was he had to be explained. I mean,

679
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.759
<v Speaker 4>if God didn't want to take our free will and uh,

680
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:43.240
<v Speaker 4>and and that's that's how it came up.

681
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:45.039
<v Speaker 2>The Bible came up.

682
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.680
<v Speaker 4>And uh, some of some of some of the spirit

683
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 4>is they don't even study the Bible, which is which

684
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:54.200
<v Speaker 4>is not a very good feeling in my opinion, because

685
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.839
<v Speaker 4>if it's the first heavy revelations, that's the first and second.

686
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 4>So she has a book called the Gospel according to Spiritism,

687
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.519
<v Speaker 4>and uh, that explains that. And and that's that's the

688
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:12.559
<v Speaker 4>kind of click for me, because yeah, you tell me that.

689
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 2>Another thing, what what what makes you? What about this

690
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:19.480
<v Speaker 2>ideology or this belief system appeals to you? What makes

691
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 2>it convincing to you?

692
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 4>What appears to me is that it doesn't have a hierarchy.

693
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:29.159
<v Speaker 4>I mean there's no there's no priests, there are no uh,

694
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:35.559
<v Speaker 4>no releagious hierarchies. So because we've been reincarnate, just believe

695
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:39.719
<v Speaker 4>in reincarnation. So it's very possible that our person that

696
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:42.840
<v Speaker 4>is just beginning has more, which is don't there's somebody

697
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:48.559
<v Speaker 4>who lives their whole life used by those dystoption and uh.

698
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:53.639
<v Speaker 4>And they not only not only say that we shouldn't

699
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:58.039
<v Speaker 4>have blind face, they actually count them by face. They

700
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.679
<v Speaker 4>they actually says that have two. We are here to

701
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:06.239
<v Speaker 4>improve our intellects and our morality. And in the cities,

702
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.360
<v Speaker 4>for example, the part that they say, oh you know

703
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.840
<v Speaker 4>a good man, I was studying that last week. Actually,

704
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 4>and it's basically we can't for example, I can't do

705
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:20.920
<v Speaker 4>it you for being a Nazist. I can't do it.

706
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.840
<v Speaker 4>I can't chose a Moslim for being Muslim. I mean,

707
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:26.079
<v Speaker 4>everybody has the best.

708
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:27.239
<v Speaker 7>To go in life.

709
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.320
<v Speaker 4>That's that's why it clicks to me. That's that's that's

710
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 4>quite click to me.

711
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, I definitely have some thoughts. I know, Sophia,

712
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.960
<v Speaker 2>if you want to talk, because I have some thoughts.

713
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think my initial thought is that to me,

714
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.320
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like there are aspects that feel cool to you,

715
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.800
<v Speaker 1>that makes sense to you from an emotional level maybe,

716
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:51.159
<v Speaker 1>And I know that you're mentioning blind faith is bad,

717
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.760
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like I don't see any compelling reason

718
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.480
<v Speaker 1>to actually believe this. To me, it seems like another

719
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:03.360
<v Speaker 1>angle of I like this idea it makes life make

720
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 1>sense to me, or makes these aspects of life feel

721
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.880
<v Speaker 1>all right, I'm going to choose to believe it. So

722
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.519
<v Speaker 1>I still am not getting to any you know, I

723
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:14.519
<v Speaker 1>am trying to listen carefully to see like, is there

724
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:18.079
<v Speaker 1>where is the evidence for this? Is this evidence even

725
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 1>come into play here? But it just kind of seems

726
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.519
<v Speaker 1>like another one of those beliefs that's just like, nah,

727
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I want to believe something. This this seems cool. I

728
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.639
<v Speaker 1>don't know why your thoughts there.

729
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, oh, sorry, you were asking him, not me.

730
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:35.679
<v Speaker 3>Probably anybody anybody answer well, I just found out because,

731
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.599
<v Speaker 3>like I said, a spiritism, a spiritismo, but that is

732
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 3>actually the different thing is this carts spiritism.

733
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.039
<v Speaker 2>I found it because he mentioned the Gospel according to spiritism,

734
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.239
<v Speaker 2>and that is what this is referring to. So this

735
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:52.159
<v Speaker 2>is a sort of new religious movement that was as

736
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.760
<v Speaker 2>most popular in Brazil, which makes sense because you're calling

737
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.239
<v Speaker 2>from Brazil, that kind of I mean, everything seems to

738
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 2>match up here with what you're talking about as far

739
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 2>as like, Okay, there's it's a different sort of view

740
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:05.159
<v Speaker 2>on traditional Christian theology, but there still definitely is a

741
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.760
<v Speaker 2>belief in God. And I'm also seeing some other interesting

742
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.599
<v Speaker 2>things here, like the belief that mediums can talk to

743
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.199
<v Speaker 2>the dead and stuff like that. So there is still

744
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:16.480
<v Speaker 2>some kind of interesting spiritual elements. I guess that's why

745
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:20.079
<v Speaker 2>it's called spiritism. And the thing is, like, I agree

746
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.239
<v Speaker 2>with some of your criticisms of traditional Christianity, right, like,

747
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:26.920
<v Speaker 2>there's definitely some better explanations for what we see. For example,

748
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.239
<v Speaker 2>and you start off by saying, hey, Lazarus say there's

749
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.840
<v Speaker 2>maybe this is explained by a narcoleptic. I agree. I

750
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.360
<v Speaker 2>think a naturalist explanation is probably better for some of

751
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.159
<v Speaker 2>the stuff we see. But the difference between your beliefs

752
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and what my beliefs are is, Look, I apply that

753
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:41.639
<v Speaker 2>to the whole of Christianity. I don't even need to

754
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:44.119
<v Speaker 2>believe that there is a God, right, Why do I

755
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 2>have to even start with that? It seems like we

756
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of start with this presumption that Okay, well maybe

757
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:51.960
<v Speaker 2>some Christians or Muslims or these other people they have

758
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:54.320
<v Speaker 2>different ideas, they have different interpretations, but let's get to

759
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.960
<v Speaker 2>the real stuff. And I kind of say, well, maybe

760
00:37:57.320 --> 00:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>it's all bullshit from the very beginning. Maybe we don't

761
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.960
<v Speaker 2>have have to look at the real Christianity because maybe

762
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:05.079
<v Speaker 2>there is no real Christianity or real God or real

763
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:09.480
<v Speaker 2>God beliefs around it that that are more true than others,

764
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:12.199
<v Speaker 2>because maybe there just isn't a God. Right, So that's

765
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.119
<v Speaker 2>where I think I start off with this. It's just

766
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:17.159
<v Speaker 2>like all this stuff is kind of predicated on I

767
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 2>got even being there in the first place, and if

768
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I can't even get that far, I can't get into

769
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:21.519
<v Speaker 2>this other stuff.

770
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.800
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, I got it. I

771
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:26.920
<v Speaker 4>got it, And I just wanted to put it out

772
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.159
<v Speaker 4>there to see your reaction because it's not only the

773
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:32.719
<v Speaker 4>United States on to see what you guys think. But

774
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:37.400
<v Speaker 4>here's the thing. It doesn't bother me that you don't

775
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 4>believe actually, because.

776
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Well that's good it shouldn't you know?

777
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:45.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, of course that's what I mean. That's exactly

778
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 4>what I mean. I put it out there because I

779
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:54.800
<v Speaker 4>have to somewhat where not that there are many people here,

780
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.800
<v Speaker 4>but somewhat where a combination of being fluent in English

781
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.679
<v Speaker 4>and know his sense about this releasions. I just want

782
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:03.320
<v Speaker 4>to put it out there and and.

783
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:04.920
<v Speaker 7>No to preach.

784
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.639
<v Speaker 4>Like I said, I'm trying to make you believe that.

785
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:12.639
<v Speaker 4>I'm just to make people think about that you are

786
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.719
<v Speaker 4>somebody else because if I if I, if I, well,

787
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 4>if I told you that you should believe, be going

788
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:21.519
<v Speaker 4>I guess my religion.

789
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we appreciate that you believe that. We appreciate that

790
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:29.000
<v Speaker 2>you know you wanted our takes, you want our reactions.

791
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.400
<v Speaker 2>We gave you our reactions right there. You go like I,

792
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.159
<v Speaker 2>I you know, I appreciate and respect that you may

793
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:38.159
<v Speaker 2>have more progressive ideas of Christianity that maybe it includes

794
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:40.280
<v Speaker 2>being more accepting of other people and not trying to

795
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:43.000
<v Speaker 2>preach and do stuff like that. I just think that

796
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 2>you don't even have to be a Christian or even

797
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:47.719
<v Speaker 2>be spiritual to even have good values either. Like I

798
00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:50.559
<v Speaker 2>just think if it's more about hey, I like that

799
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:54.039
<v Speaker 2>this belief system is anti hierarchical and like allows me

800
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:56.760
<v Speaker 2>to live independently and do these things. I think you

801
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:00.719
<v Speaker 2>can do that as an atheist even better than then

802
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 2>a spirituist, because I don't even need a gospel. You

803
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.719
<v Speaker 2>can just do what you want. But that's my take, right,

804
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.079
<v Speaker 2>so perhaps, but yeah.

805
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:10.760
<v Speaker 4>But let me just say, well, well I seek just

806
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.400
<v Speaker 4>well I see, uh like to provoke you guys.

807
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Your your provocus.

808
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.320
<v Speaker 4>I mean it's is actually the the you know, the

809
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:28.199
<v Speaker 4>human is actually comes from the Christian morality, but without God,

810
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:31.639
<v Speaker 4>so it can maybe you just believe in God now,

811
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.599
<v Speaker 4>but some accessors of yours had to because it's not

812
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 4>it's only Western society that think about tolerance and things

813
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.079
<v Speaker 4>like that. It's it's starry to come out there. But

814
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:47.199
<v Speaker 4>if you if you, for example, in Japan, not in

815
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:51.039
<v Speaker 4>nineteen forty five Peo believe the emperor the live. Emperor

816
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.039
<v Speaker 4>was a god, he could do anything.

817
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:58.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, idea, But think about I think it's hard

818
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:02.440
<v Speaker 1>to provoke people with arguments they've heard again and again.

819
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:06.800
<v Speaker 1>In this instance, the idea that atheist morality is somehow

820
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:10.760
<v Speaker 1>borrowed from specifically Christianity is something that if you're an

821
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.719
<v Speaker 1>atheist you hear a lot. I think it's pretty easy

822
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 1>if you read literature throughout time, or global literature. That's

823
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:22.159
<v Speaker 1>where I kind of come to this belief is that

824
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:26.079
<v Speaker 1>people have had very similar feelings about morality throughout time

825
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:30.679
<v Speaker 1>throughout the world. We love similarly, we feel pain similarly,

826
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.199
<v Speaker 1>and our morality is an outgrowth of the fact that

827
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.559
<v Speaker 1>we're a social species. We like to be together, we

828
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.880
<v Speaker 1>love each other, and we feel pain, and so there's

829
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.400
<v Speaker 1>no need to borrow a particular moral system. You know,

830
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned tolerance being something that was specific to Europe. Well,

831
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:49.840
<v Speaker 1>why is tolerance inherently the only morality that we need

832
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.280
<v Speaker 1>to be concerned about. I think equality matters too, And

833
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.719
<v Speaker 1>I think you saw a lot of calls in Eastern

834
00:41:55.800 --> 00:42:00.559
<v Speaker 1>religions or in oftentimes more indigenous religions that focus on

835
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:04.880
<v Speaker 1>things like sharing, like communal welfare. I think those are

836
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.679
<v Speaker 1>good things too, and they don't necessarily come from European

837
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:12.320
<v Speaker 1>styles of Christianity. So yeah, I think we're open to

838
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.000
<v Speaker 1>being provoked, but I think that particular argument is one

839
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:17.440
<v Speaker 1>that's pretty easily dispensed with.

840
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, so, yeah, a couple of things there. One,

841
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:24.599
<v Speaker 2>there is a common misconception that atheism is a Western

842
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.000
<v Speaker 2>development and is a Western idea, and that's like a

843
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Speaker 2>very Eurocentric idea of thinking, because actually it's as old

844
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Speaker 2>as Indian philosophy, like Indian silas beat by centuries when

845
00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.880
<v Speaker 2>it comes to thinking about this stuff, and it's obviously like,

846
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, we haven't had that produced in like the

847
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:47.039
<v Speaker 2>modern philosophical consensus until like much later, because mostly when

848
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:49.199
<v Speaker 2>we talk about philosophy, it's it's pretty much always been

849
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:53.440
<v Speaker 2>what white guys thought about somewhere in Europe. So you know,

850
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:55.800
<v Speaker 2>there's something to consider there that it's not just a

851
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Western idea, right, that it exists by you know, even

852
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:02.000
<v Speaker 2>by that standards, but if you even want to include

853
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 2>like just the broad non belief that technically goes back

854
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.960
<v Speaker 2>even further than like human civilization, right, because yeah, there's

855
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:13.159
<v Speaker 2>animism and sort of spiritual beliefs that existed amongst humans.

856
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:15.679
<v Speaker 2>But like, there's definitely been groups of people that have

857
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.800
<v Speaker 2>no God belief, for at least God in the traditional

858
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:21.119
<v Speaker 2>sense kind of belief. So it definitely exists for a

859
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.079
<v Speaker 2>long time. Whether or not that leads you to a

860
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:27.800
<v Speaker 2>better outcome morally is a separate question, right. But the

861
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>truth is, like you know, there is there is a

862
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:35.800
<v Speaker 2>conception that morality stems from Christianity or Christianity and religious

863
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.559
<v Speaker 2>constructs in general are the basis of moral foundations. And

864
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, we've talked about this time and time again,

865
00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:44.039
<v Speaker 2>how it's not true. How we can definitely live lives

866
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 2>that are moral and you know, obviously produce outcomes that

867
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.760
<v Speaker 2>are good most traditionally defined as good. Are they consistent?

868
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:52.000
<v Speaker 5>No?

869
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:54.639
<v Speaker 2>But when is religion ever been consistent? Right, Like, that's

870
00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:56.880
<v Speaker 2>just the matter of being a human being and how

871
00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:59.400
<v Speaker 2>you sort that out. So anyway, that's enough I think

872
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:02.199
<v Speaker 2>from me. But you didn't say that was the last

873
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:04.840
<v Speaker 2>thing you want to say. I will let you go here, Eduardo,

874
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:06.920
<v Speaker 2>unless you had anything else you want to add before

875
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I let you go.

876
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:11.639
<v Speaker 4>No, I'm gonna yeah, I'm just saying, uh, yeah, I'm

877
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:15.920
<v Speaker 4>talking about your specific I mean, I know they if

878
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.719
<v Speaker 4>it isn't comes from long ago and all that, but uh,

879
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.239
<v Speaker 4>that's the thing. But we learned, we learned that when

880
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.360
<v Speaker 4>you don't have tolerance, and actually a lesson that you

881
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.280
<v Speaker 4>have to learn by pay, when you don't have tolerists

882
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.760
<v Speaker 4>to start to tolerate genocide and things like that. That's

883
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.920
<v Speaker 4>why I say that's the most important moral principle.

884
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:40.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I agree, I don't support genocide. I'm also

885
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:42.440
<v Speaker 2>an atheist, so I don't know what you will do

886
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>with that.

887
00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:47.360
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, yeah, listen, no, no, sorry, sorry, I'm not

888
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.639
<v Speaker 4>saying that because you are. It's not the provocation that

889
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:54.840
<v Speaker 4>I was going to say. Is that what led you

890
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.159
<v Speaker 4>to the the loss of that too?

891
00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:59.239
<v Speaker 2>You you are part today.

892
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:03.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm trying to be careful for my wordship was was

893
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.639
<v Speaker 4>I mean your specifically from the foundation you know, the

894
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.960
<v Speaker 4>seccul line and the church separated from the state, to

895
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:17.000
<v Speaker 4>the church deparate from the state. It's it came because

896
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:23.320
<v Speaker 4>of because people start passion christian the Christianity, because you know,

897
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:26.639
<v Speaker 4>if they are if they for example, we start to

898
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:29.719
<v Speaker 4>sink musicians and what's that.

899
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.719
<v Speaker 2>And I think that you don't have just clarify, are

900
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:37.159
<v Speaker 2>you saying that secularism originates from Christianity. I think that's

901
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:39.480
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying, because I disagree with that.

902
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:42.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but I'm not I'm not saying but yeah, but

903
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:45.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm not saying that to say that no, you are,

904
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.719
<v Speaker 4>you are wrong. I don't see you know why, and

905
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.440
<v Speaker 4>might even not be wrong, might be right about that.

906
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:55.480
<v Speaker 4>But I just I just think I don't. I don't.

907
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you were so few specifically has

908
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:03.840
<v Speaker 4>that problem with people? Don't if you start, don't even

909
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.840
<v Speaker 4>acknowledge that money, I mean it.

910
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Just agree that acknowledge the possibility.

911
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.519
<v Speaker 1>So like the idea that if you know, there can

912
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess I'm happy to say that there can be

913
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.480
<v Speaker 1>very moral religious people. And I am a product of

914
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:24.599
<v Speaker 1>the West, and Christianity had a major impact on the West.

915
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:26.280
<v Speaker 1>I think that those are all things that I can

916
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:30.280
<v Speaker 1>absolutely concede. I think that when we're talking about the

917
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:34.000
<v Speaker 1>idea of like morality, I have found that every step

918
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:39.039
<v Speaker 1>I take away from faith and incorporate non Western Christian traditions,

919
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.239
<v Speaker 1>I find myself living more in tune with other people

920
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:48.079
<v Speaker 1>with I find myself living with more integrity the further

921
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.519
<v Speaker 1>away I step from it. So I think that it's

922
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:54.519
<v Speaker 1>when it's presented as though we have to have been

923
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.079
<v Speaker 1>influenced by Christianity to be moral, and that our morals

924
00:46:58.119 --> 00:46:59.960
<v Speaker 1>come from that. I think that that's what people start

925
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.079
<v Speaker 1>taking issue with. Additionally, I think when we're talking about

926
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 1>on a societal level, things like tolerance, every step toward

927
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:10.880
<v Speaker 1>tolerance has been a step away from the Church. So

928
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:14.519
<v Speaker 1>I think it's very difficult to say that the secularism

929
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:18.119
<v Speaker 1>and so that humanism and human rights in general have

930
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.079
<v Speaker 1>been something that came from the Church, when historically that

931
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 1>just isn't true.

932
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.000
<v Speaker 2>So I am.

933
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.519
<v Speaker 1>Definitely happy to see that. Yep, I'm a product of

934
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:28.920
<v Speaker 1>the West. I have a lot of Christian family members

935
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.079
<v Speaker 1>that I consider people who are seeking to do right

936
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:35.639
<v Speaker 1>and their religion is grounded in European history. Like that's

937
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.000
<v Speaker 1>just that's just actually true. It's also factually true that

938
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.760
<v Speaker 1>all goodness doesn't come from Christianity.

939
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I understand your frustration. I'm going to say this.

940
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:46.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to let you go afterwards, because I didn't

941
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:47.760
<v Speaker 2>say I let you give one more thing, and but

942
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, you brought up an interesting point. But I

943
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.000
<v Speaker 2>think is a common criticism that people have, which is like, look,

944
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.360
<v Speaker 2>atheists aren't open minded? Why can't atheists be open minded

945
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:58.840
<v Speaker 2>towards the spiritual, towards the God, towards all these other things.

946
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:01.159
<v Speaker 2>And the truth is I am a product of an

947
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:04.440
<v Speaker 2>attempt at open mindedness. If I had stayed a Christian,

948
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.719
<v Speaker 2>by the way, which is the idea that, oh, you

949
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:11.039
<v Speaker 2>have the truth and the life right, you don't need

950
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 2>these other ideas. I mean, that's Christianity's whole thing, is that, look,

951
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:17.559
<v Speaker 2>don't worship these other gods, don't follow these other paths,

952
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:20.719
<v Speaker 2>only follow through me. That's not an act of open

953
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:23.480
<v Speaker 2>mindedness if I had stayed a Christian. It is my

954
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:27.480
<v Speaker 2>attempt to circumvent that ideology that I have come to

955
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.880
<v Speaker 2>the place that I am today, right, And that's not

956
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.960
<v Speaker 2>true for all the atheists. Some people grow up broadly

957
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.280
<v Speaker 2>setuler and don't have godlieves, and that's fine. But for

958
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.920
<v Speaker 2>many of us, that's our reality and that's our choice.

959
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Christianity did not promote ideas of open mindedness and tolerance

960
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and exploration. And I think that is the burden that

961
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:48.679
<v Speaker 2>Christians need to understand, that that's what they need to follow,

962
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:50.760
<v Speaker 2>not atheists. It's not atheists that need to be more

963
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:53.800
<v Speaker 2>open minded. It's the religious folks that grew up in

964
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the majority religious nations and the majority religious cultures that

965
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>they grew up and that they need to learn tolerance

966
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:03.199
<v Speaker 2>and figure out what other people believe and not just hey,

967
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I need to figure out what the most people, what

968
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:08.239
<v Speaker 2>a third of the planet believes. I know what they believe,

969
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:11.639
<v Speaker 2>I got that right. Do they know what I believe though,

970
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:14.719
<v Speaker 2>or don't believe? I think that's a that's a harder

971
00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:17.880
<v Speaker 2>question for a lot of Christians to actually answer. And

972
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:20.039
<v Speaker 2>I know that you're a different kind of Christian than

973
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:22.400
<v Speaker 2>most Christians, but that's what we broadly talk about, right,

974
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:24.440
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the majority consensus. But I am when

975
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:28.639
<v Speaker 2>you go EDWARDO. So thank you for that call. Another interesting,

976
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:30.239
<v Speaker 2>interesting call today.

977
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Appreciated it. I now know more about something I didn't like.

978
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.719
<v Speaker 1>I learned something which is which is really cool.

979
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean cartisicist spiritism. That's cartassist with a K. You

980
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:48.639
<v Speaker 2>don't know anything about this big Wikipedia article though. Nice. Thanks? Yeah,

981
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.039
<v Speaker 2>very cool, cool show we're doing today. Thanks for your great,

982
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.639
<v Speaker 2>awesome calls. I hope we can keep up this great

983
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:59.559
<v Speaker 2>pace of cool calls and not go into lane calls, right,

984
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:01.599
<v Speaker 2>because that would that would suck.

985
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:03.719
<v Speaker 1>It is better to be cool than lame.

986
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's better to It is greater to be cool

987
00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:11.280
<v Speaker 2>than lame. Therefore, the coolest of calls does exist and talk?

988
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:14.119
<v Speaker 2>He then, is is it the coolest of callin shows?

989
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>So obviously, I don't know. I don't know. There's other

990
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:20.360
<v Speaker 2>cool shows out.

991
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:22.719
<v Speaker 1>There, but hey, cool but not cool.

992
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Who's the greatest?

993
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:24.440
<v Speaker 7>Right?

994
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

995
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.719
<v Speaker 2>And if it's greatest, it has to exist, right anyway,

996
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:29.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

997
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.559
<v Speaker 1>We're getting cost of all call in shows.

998
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.599
<v Speaker 2>That's right, and I think maybe we're on it right now.

999
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but he we should do our top

1000
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:42.119
<v Speaker 2>five patrons for we should the greatest of Colin shows.

1001
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:45.199
<v Speaker 2>I think, Sophie, you want to do top five? Sure?

1002
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:49.199
<v Speaker 1>All right? Well I said sure, and now.

1003
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:52.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let me get this ship out. I can do

1004
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.719
<v Speaker 2>it if you're not okay, okay.

1005
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, God, consider things before I agree to them.

1006
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:00.360
<v Speaker 4>Problem.

1007
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:03.039
<v Speaker 2>I totally get it, because it's like when you're alive

1008
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:05.360
<v Speaker 2>and you're like you're you just start talking just to

1009
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:08.480
<v Speaker 2>fill the void because we can't have we can't have

1010
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:12.960
<v Speaker 2>no noise going whatsoever. That's crazy, are you thing? But yeah,

1011
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I totally understand.

1012
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yep, all right, I found them. So our top five patrons.

1013
00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Number one, we have oops All Singularity, which is just

1014
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:25.199
<v Speaker 1>such a good name too. We have Dingleberry Jackson. Three

1015
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:28.199
<v Speaker 1>is this is what I can't think about. I just

1016
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:29.360
<v Speaker 1>have to say, you got this, you.

1017
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Got this, you got this.

1018
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Now I haven't even less.

1019
00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Come on, you got this. Yeah, you got it?

1020
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Hell me, hell baddy?

1021
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I think I just have to go. Yeah.

1022
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:44.760
<v Speaker 1>The next is left in the leaves. And then number

1023
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:48.119
<v Speaker 1>five we have Neil the six o four atheist with

1024
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:52.760
<v Speaker 1>an honorable mention today from Bethany p. That's a good name.

1025
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:56.320
<v Speaker 1>That's an easy name to say. Bethany is normal human name.

1026
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Wait, hold on all of our oops I'll say I'm

1027
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:03.719
<v Speaker 2>pretty sure oops All Singularity is taken offense okay, because

1028
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.440
<v Speaker 2>that's I'm sure that's their government name. All right.

1029
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:06.880
<v Speaker 1>You just.

1030
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:12.559
<v Speaker 2>How awesome would that be? That'd be sick, Actually that

1031
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:16.639
<v Speaker 2>would be pretty pretty cool. But anyway, Yeah, thank everybody

1032
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.159
<v Speaker 2>that donates. You guys are all great, And if you

1033
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.360
<v Speaker 2>want to be in the top five and maybe an

1034
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.239
<v Speaker 2>honorable mention, you should do that a tiny out c

1035
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:26.320
<v Speaker 2>c slash, Patreon, t H or you know, just be

1036
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:30.679
<v Speaker 2>a regular patron too. You got to be top five ce. Yeah,

1037
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.360
<v Speaker 2>there she's got she's pointed to that lower third. So

1038
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:36.840
<v Speaker 2>thanks for doing that. And and just a reminder as well,

1039
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:38.679
<v Speaker 2>we are going to be doing an after show and

1040
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:41.639
<v Speaker 2>we're having both of us and then after show today.

1041
00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:43.800
<v Speaker 2>So if you're watching this live, come check out the

1042
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Discord after show and uh, that's what we call it

1043
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:49.880
<v Speaker 2>the after show because it's after the show.

1044
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:56.559
<v Speaker 1>Just here after the show.

1045
00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:58.719
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm all about it, you know, I'm all

1046
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:01.519
<v Speaker 2>about it. So yeah, go check that out if you

1047
00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:03.280
<v Speaker 2>want to hang out with us. But hey, let's get

1048
00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:07.719
<v Speaker 2>to some more calls for now. We oh man, we

1049
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.719
<v Speaker 2>got some good ones. We have two Stevens online right now. Actually,

1050
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.119
<v Speaker 2>that's a good question. I think I want to talk

1051
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:21.480
<v Speaker 2>to Steven from Florida first. Can we do that? All right,

1052
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:25.159
<v Speaker 2>let's do Stevens from Florida. Stephen from Florida. You are

1053
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.119
<v Speaker 2>alive on Talk Heathen today. What's going on?

1054
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.960
<v Speaker 7>Hey, guys, I just wanted to talk a little bit

1055
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:34.920
<v Speaker 7>about deconstructing Hell. Yeah, first of all, just listening to

1056
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:38.760
<v Speaker 7>the show, to just listen into the show today. I

1057
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 7>wanted to say that the the idea that atheists aren't

1058
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:47.320
<v Speaker 7>open minded is not supported throughout history. I mean, we're

1059
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:52.280
<v Speaker 7>open to proof. Like my Christian friends asked me a

1060
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:55.360
<v Speaker 7>lot what would change my mind? And I tell them proof.

1061
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:58.599
<v Speaker 7>But what would change your mind is nothing, because you've

1062
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:03.440
<v Speaker 7>already had your mind made up and your God, you know,

1063
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:08.239
<v Speaker 7>is a substitute for this knowledge, which is something that

1064
00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:12.000
<v Speaker 7>you'll never surpass because it always comes to your God

1065
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.159
<v Speaker 7>and nothing's above that. So the answer will always be that.

1066
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:20.880
<v Speaker 7>But during my deconstruction deconstructing, I wanted to talk about

1067
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.039
<v Speaker 7>I feel like I was a worst person when I

1068
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:28.840
<v Speaker 7>was a Christian. You know, it's hard, it's hard to admit,

1069
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.719
<v Speaker 7>but when you're a Christian you read things in the

1070
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:36.760
<v Speaker 7>Bible like slavery, and then you say, well, I'm going

1071
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:40.800
<v Speaker 7>to rationalize this to that was the times back then,

1072
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:45.039
<v Speaker 7>and so it was accepted and therefore these people deserved

1073
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.320
<v Speaker 7>it because you know what I mean, And so you

1074
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:52.199
<v Speaker 7>get this just you know, demonic or of a way

1075
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:57.400
<v Speaker 7>of putting it, a way of thinking that's just very evil, hierarchy,

1076
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:01.679
<v Speaker 7>way of thinking that you're better than everybody else, simply

1077
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.719
<v Speaker 7>because you have this imaginary friends who says so and

1078
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:08.960
<v Speaker 7>this book, you know what I mean, tells you that

1079
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:12.199
<v Speaker 7>these things. So I wanted to call about deconstructing and

1080
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:17.239
<v Speaker 7>just how it changed my life completely. Of I feel

1081
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:22.119
<v Speaker 7>like being human, you can hear things that you know

1082
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.159
<v Speaker 7>contradict what even your beliefs, and instead of just being like, well,

1083
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.119
<v Speaker 7>my God has an answer for this, or my preacher

1084
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:33.199
<v Speaker 7>just hasn't told me what the answer is yet, is

1085
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:36.880
<v Speaker 7>not the best way of going, you know. So I

1086
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:40.679
<v Speaker 7>like to challenge my Christian friends and even give them

1087
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:43.360
<v Speaker 7>their Jesus story, and I like to ask them what

1088
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.519
<v Speaker 7>tangible evidence even if we were to say that Jesus

1089
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:48.920
<v Speaker 7>died for you and for me and for all of

1090
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:53.159
<v Speaker 7>our sins, why are we going to die? Why did

1091
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:57.119
<v Speaker 7>our grandparents die? If Jesus died for these people, why

1092
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:01.079
<v Speaker 7>are they still experiencing death? Is this a clear sign

1093
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 7>that even if Jesus did these things, that they weren't

1094
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:08.239
<v Speaker 7>accepted from his God. I mean, in the Bible, it

1095
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:12.079
<v Speaker 7>even tells you a sacrifice has to be a female offering,

1096
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:16.159
<v Speaker 7>and a flawless female. Jesus was not a female, and

1097
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:17.400
<v Speaker 7>he was not flawless.

1098
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 2>He was cut up.

1099
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:20.960
<v Speaker 7>In the Bible tells you, you know, now to a cross,

1100
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.920
<v Speaker 7>and you know, a sacrifice is supposed to be in

1101
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.440
<v Speaker 7>a temple, not onn amount. So there was a there's

1102
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.360
<v Speaker 7>a bunch of things that you could even argue about

1103
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:36.599
<v Speaker 7>Jesus's sacrifice that doesn't even meet biblical you know standard.

1104
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what the greatest red pill you experience as an

1105
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.519
<v Speaker 2>atheist is when you realize that Christianity is the Judaism,

1106
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:48.679
<v Speaker 2>what Mormonism is to the general Christian population, which is

1107
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:53.119
<v Speaker 2>that Christianity. Right, this idea of Jesus being this fulfillment

1108
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:56.519
<v Speaker 2>of prophecy and stuff is not obviously what Jews today

1109
00:56:57.159 --> 00:56:59.400
<v Speaker 2>broadly speak and think of in the same way that

1110
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.000
<v Speaker 2>we don't think so smith is a continuation of writing

1111
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.239
<v Speaker 2>any of the books of the Bible. Like, that's what

1112
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Jesus was doing to Jewish people at the time, right,

1113
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:10.559
<v Speaker 2>was Hey, here's my interpretation and here's my culls of

1114
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:14.639
<v Speaker 2>personality sort of you know, turning into this whole other religion.

1115
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's really what it was. But yeah, there's

1116
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:18.920
<v Speaker 2>so much to say there about this. Oh my goodness,

1117
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:21.199
<v Speaker 2>you bring up a lot of great points. I was

1118
00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:23.880
<v Speaker 2>also a worst person when I was a Christian, Right,

1119
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I was homophobic I was. To be honest, I didn't

1120
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:29.760
<v Speaker 2>really think a whole lot about trans people. They just

1121
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:31.719
<v Speaker 2>wasn't as much visibility when I was younger. But I

1122
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:34.000
<v Speaker 2>was probably transphobic. If I met a transfers, and I'd

1123
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:36.840
<v Speaker 2>probably be a transphobic towards them. And why because I

1124
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.320
<v Speaker 2>thought I was justified in that. I thought that being

1125
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:42.159
<v Speaker 2>gay was a sin and that God had specific gender

1126
00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:44.280
<v Speaker 2>rules for people, and then we had to apply by that.

1127
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:47.000
<v Speaker 2>That wasn't you know? Yeah, are there atheists that are

1128
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:51.079
<v Speaker 2>transphobic and homophobic? Absolutely, but broadly speaking, right, that culture

1129
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>of homophobia and transphobia is fueled by Christianity and Islam,

1130
00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:58.199
<v Speaker 2>and you know, you know, maybe some minority religions, but

1131
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Christianity in America absolutely one percent is where a lot

1132
00:58:01.719 --> 00:58:03.119
<v Speaker 2>of that's coming from. And I don't I'm not a

1133
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Christian anymore. So therefore I'm not homophobic anymore, because why,

1134
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about God's opinion. I don't think God's real, right,

1135
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:12.519
<v Speaker 2>So there's an interesting thing that happens where I do

1136
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.360
<v Speaker 2>think I'm a better person because I'm not a Christian anymore.

1137
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:16.519
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of people say, well, you don't even

1138
00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:19.480
<v Speaker 2>know what right and wrong is, And that's gas lighting,

1139
00:58:19.559 --> 00:58:23.800
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, human beings have always always, let me, let

1140
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:26.800
<v Speaker 2>me say this again, always been the arbiters for right

1141
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:30.079
<v Speaker 2>and wrong. I don't care what you think God's opinion is.

1142
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:33.280
<v Speaker 2>That's a human being telling you what they think God's

1143
00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:36.960
<v Speaker 2>opinion is. God has not told me himself, and as

1144
00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.559
<v Speaker 2>far as I know, hasn't directly told anybody. It's always

1145
00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:41.760
<v Speaker 2>been what human beings have thought of God, and therefore

1146
00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:44.760
<v Speaker 2>have been human opinions of what's right and wrong. And

1147
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:47.159
<v Speaker 2>that means that it's malleable. That means that we can

1148
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:50.079
<v Speaker 2>work with it and become better people and figure out

1149
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:52.280
<v Speaker 2>what it even means to be a better person. Right. So, yeah,

1150
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:55.920
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of value that comes with deconstruction, and

1151
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.199
<v Speaker 2>it's one of the main reasons why I do this

1152
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:01.239
<v Speaker 2>shit because I want other people to experience that and

1153
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:03.199
<v Speaker 2>be like, hey, there is a way to not just

1154
00:59:03.639 --> 00:59:05.639
<v Speaker 2>lose your faith. I'm not interested in losing faith or

1155
00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:08.880
<v Speaker 2>losing faith's sake. I want people to believe in true things,

1156
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:11.400
<v Speaker 2>but I also want people to become better people, and

1157
00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:14.880
<v Speaker 2>you can do that definitely by shutting off nonsense that

1158
00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:18.559
<v Speaker 2>comes from beliefs that are religious in nature. Obviously, there

1159
00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:20.119
<v Speaker 2>you go. There's my ted talk, Sophia.

1160
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:23.599
<v Speaker 1>I glad it well, and I very strongly identify with

1161
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:25.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of what you were saying, Stephen, and went

1162
00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:28.679
<v Speaker 1>through a similar process of I was trying to make

1163
00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:31.280
<v Speaker 1>so many things work when I was Christian. The mental

1164
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.639
<v Speaker 1>gymnastics I was doing were insane, and I didn't realize

1165
00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:36.880
<v Speaker 1>that I was doing them until I was thinking, you know,

1166
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:38.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to put this down for a little while.

1167
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:41.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to like take a rest from apologetics

1168
00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:43.679
<v Speaker 1>because I was very much an advocate for my faith.

1169
00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:46.000
<v Speaker 1>And as soon as I did that, I realized how

1170
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:49.760
<v Speaker 1>I didn't have to work so hard to try to

1171
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:54.039
<v Speaker 1>make something feel true, look true, seem true. And that

1172
00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:56.079
<v Speaker 1>was sort of the beginning of my road to atheism,

1173
00:59:56.199 --> 00:59:58.360
<v Speaker 1>was I was just like, wait, this is so much

1174
00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:02.239
<v Speaker 1>this makes so much more sense. And when I think

1175
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.280
<v Speaker 1>about I had a big argument with my grandfather once,

1176
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>who was a very good man, was a preacher for

1177
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:09.920
<v Speaker 1>a long long time, and the premise is who is

1178
01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:13.320
<v Speaker 1>your neighbor? You know, that's something that we're told to

1179
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:16.639
<v Speaker 1>love our neighbors as ourselves. And then I see religious

1180
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:19.360
<v Speaker 1>people of all stripes but particularly Christians, and we're in

1181
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:22.440
<v Speaker 1>the context of America right now, particularly in America, who

1182
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:25.880
<v Speaker 1>go to great lengths to argue that other people are

1183
01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>not really their neighbor, that the Bible doesn't really mean

1184
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:33.239
<v Speaker 1>those people that I don't prefer or agree with, or whatever,

1185
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:36.840
<v Speaker 1>and they use the Bible to make that argument. And

1186
01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:41.480
<v Speaker 1>it's the ability to make an argument based upon your

1187
01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:46.639
<v Speaker 1>feelings and then believe you have God's divine dictate behind

1188
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:49.960
<v Speaker 1>them that makes a person really dangerous and really hurtful

1189
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:54.679
<v Speaker 1>and able to do things that just completely disregard the

1190
01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:57.320
<v Speaker 1>humanity of another. Of course, I wouldn't say no atheist

1191
01:00:57.360 --> 01:01:00.800
<v Speaker 1>has ever done that, but what I see every are

1192
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Christians doing that, And so yeah, I fully agree. I

1193
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.159
<v Speaker 1>think the other thing I would say about when I

1194
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:11.559
<v Speaker 1>was Christian was I was so anxious. I had a

1195
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:14.719
<v Speaker 1>very hard time thinking about my own morality, being my

1196
01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:17.880
<v Speaker 1>best self, being my most moral self. Because I was

1197
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:20.119
<v Speaker 1>thinking about this just this week. If I felt like

1198
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:21.960
<v Speaker 1>I had a little bit of a sniffle, should I

1199
01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:24.000
<v Speaker 1>go to school? Like that was a middle school question

1200
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:27.639
<v Speaker 1>for me. Is it a demon or the devil trying

1201
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:29.280
<v Speaker 1>to get me not to go to school? Because if

1202
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:30.880
<v Speaker 1>I went to school, would I have the ability to

1203
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:33.880
<v Speaker 1>witness for Christ at school? And then so it means

1204
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I should push myself to go right. But what if

1205
01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:39.599
<v Speaker 1>that's actually the demon talking? And if I stay home,

1206
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:41.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe I'll have the ability to witness like a Jehovah's

1207
01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:44.159
<v Speaker 1>witness or something at the door, because they sometimes come around,

1208
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 1>So how can I know? And so I would genuinely

1209
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.000
<v Speaker 1>spend time trying to figure this out as this kid.

1210
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:54.400
<v Speaker 1>And I knew I was never good enough. I knew

1211
01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:57.320
<v Speaker 1>I was wretched and disgusting and awful. And so when

1212
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.920
<v Speaker 1>you're thinking about yourself that way, how could you possibly be?

1213
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:04.280
<v Speaker 1>You a moral person? You're just an anxious rat. And so, yeah, anyway,

1214
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:07.159
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you very wholeheartedly. And it clearly connects

1215
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:08.480
<v Speaker 1>with my own experience quite a lot.

1216
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:15.880
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and Jesus himself expressed racism and biased by the

1217
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:18.480
<v Speaker 7>story we're told when the woman goes to beg for

1218
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:22.880
<v Speaker 7>her daughter who's crippled, and Jesus says, it's not right

1219
01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:25.840
<v Speaker 7>for me to throw scraps to the dogs. I must

1220
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:28.880
<v Speaker 7>tend to my own people, the Jews, And so he

1221
01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:31.679
<v Speaker 7>tells the woman that she's a dog, and that she's

1222
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.880
<v Speaker 7>not a Jewish person. And she answers and says, yes,

1223
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:39.199
<v Speaker 7>you know, yes, but even children throw scraps to the

1224
01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:43.280
<v Speaker 7>dogs sometimes. And then Jesus says, you know, this is

1225
01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:46.280
<v Speaker 7>a good answer. When you get home, your daughter will

1226
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:49.920
<v Speaker 7>be healed. But you know it wasn't before this girl

1227
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.840
<v Speaker 7>had to explain to Jesus that he was a racist.

1228
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.159
<v Speaker 7>And then the Christians want to be like, praise Jesus,

1229
01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:59.320
<v Speaker 7>he healed that little girl. And you're like, dude, you

1230
01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:02.440
<v Speaker 7>know what I mean, missed the fine the fine reading there,

1231
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.239
<v Speaker 7>and you just come to the conclussion of your Jesus

1232
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:06.760
<v Speaker 7>is the most powerful being.

1233
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.639
<v Speaker 2>And and and she had to cowtow to the personality

1234
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:14.679
<v Speaker 2>of Jesus right and beg and say, hey, I know

1235
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a Jewish person. I'm a Greek woman, right

1236
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:19.719
<v Speaker 2>is the con is the subtext there. She's not literally

1237
01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.360
<v Speaker 2>saying that, but the subtext there, right is that yeah,

1238
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:24.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a Jewish person, but you know I still

1239
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:27.079
<v Speaker 2>have these needs and desires. And He's like, okay, I'll

1240
01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:30.079
<v Speaker 2>allow it then, because you cowtowed to me, and you know,

1241
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:34.719
<v Speaker 2>and and and and gave into this terrible metaphor, right,

1242
01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:37.800
<v Speaker 2>which that metaphor absolutely in the Bible, right says, hey, hey,

1243
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>even the dogs need scraps, right, Like, that's what your

1244
01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:45.719
<v Speaker 2>mercy is from Jesus. Is you are so low you

1245
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:47.559
<v Speaker 2>don't even get to sit at the table with him.

1246
01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:49.800
<v Speaker 2>You're the dog underneath the table. Yeah, it's it's a

1247
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:54.320
<v Speaker 2>truly horrifying passage when you read it with a fuller context,

1248
01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:56.960
<v Speaker 2>something I never understood as a Christian because why would

1249
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:59.320
<v Speaker 2>you why would you celebrate that?

1250
01:03:59.679 --> 01:03:59.800
<v Speaker 5>Right?

1251
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:02.360
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's true. When you read the Bible of

1252
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:05.159
<v Speaker 2>a broader understanding, terrible things come up.

1253
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:10.119
<v Speaker 7>You know, even even there, even they're hymns amazing grace,

1254
01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:13.400
<v Speaker 7>a wretch like me, I mean, you know, the Bible

1255
01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.880
<v Speaker 7>calls them sheep. I mean, like, it's it's very degrading

1256
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:19.920
<v Speaker 7>to you know, and especially if you're a female to

1257
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:24.239
<v Speaker 7>call yourself, you know, a person of faith. You know,

1258
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:26.440
<v Speaker 7>in the Middle East you're you're killed if you don't.

1259
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.400
<v Speaker 7>But in America, you know, you have the choice not

1260
01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.320
<v Speaker 7>to to follow that, you know, And I say to

1261
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.039
<v Speaker 7>my friends all the time, you know, a female in

1262
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:39.599
<v Speaker 7>the in the in the Southern States must have a

1263
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:42.960
<v Speaker 7>really hard time figuring out what parts of her body

1264
01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:45.920
<v Speaker 7>belong to the government, and what parts of her body

1265
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:49.079
<v Speaker 7>belong to their husbands, and so you know what I mean,

1266
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:52.280
<v Speaker 7>And so like it's it's really ridiculous to me. But

1267
01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:56.039
<v Speaker 7>like as I'm as I'm you know, learning these things,

1268
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:58.719
<v Speaker 7>I'm trying not to let you know what was pushed

1269
01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:01.880
<v Speaker 7>upon me my whole life to get in the way

1270
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:05.800
<v Speaker 7>of truth and facts. I'm trying to you know, see

1271
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:08.960
<v Speaker 7>these this now that I mean, I was the same

1272
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.360
<v Speaker 7>way as you. I just don't have any trans people

1273
01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:17.079
<v Speaker 7>or or LGBT people in my life. But now that

1274
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:20.719
<v Speaker 7>I'm opening my eyes to this, where I was homophobic

1275
01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:24.960
<v Speaker 7>to them, I realized that they need a voice as well,

1276
01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:28.760
<v Speaker 7>and you know, and I start regretting all the years

1277
01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:32.960
<v Speaker 7>that you know, I felt justified in in pure hatred,

1278
01:05:33.679 --> 01:05:36.000
<v Speaker 7>you know, And now that I see that what I

1279
01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:39.679
<v Speaker 7>was so afraid of this whole time was actually what

1280
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:43.280
<v Speaker 7>I thought I believed in this love and compassion, you

1281
01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:46.760
<v Speaker 7>know what I mean, was actually what I was fighting

1282
01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:49.760
<v Speaker 7>against and and trying to hide from and saying that

1283
01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:51.440
<v Speaker 7>I was more justified than that.

1284
01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I we were joking about having a

1285
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:57.760
<v Speaker 1>consumeter where your like heart grows earlier and I'm like,

1286
01:05:57.840 --> 01:05:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I feel like this is one of those for me

1287
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:04.519
<v Speaker 1>where I fully agree that what I was homophobic too.

1288
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.400
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting that this is sort of you know, this

1289
01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:10.760
<v Speaker 1>seems universal's three of us anyway, that there were people

1290
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:13.360
<v Speaker 1>that I thought that because God could love me as

1291
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.280
<v Speaker 1>a sinner, I could pull that God, you know, they

1292
01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:17.519
<v Speaker 1>love the sinner hate the sin line, right, And I

1293
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:20.320
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just saying I actually just hate this big part

1294
01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:22.519
<v Speaker 1>of you and this big part of your identity, because

1295
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:25.400
<v Speaker 1>that's really what it is. You can't just pick and

1296
01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:27.519
<v Speaker 1>choose the things in a person that you love. And

1297
01:06:28.119 --> 01:06:31.239
<v Speaker 1>I think I've been speaking with a friend of mine

1298
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:34.519
<v Speaker 1>who is a religious person and is a lovely person,

1299
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:37.679
<v Speaker 1>and every time she brings up faith, she talks about

1300
01:06:37.719 --> 01:06:40.639
<v Speaker 1>how disgusting and terrible she is and how God God

1301
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:43.239
<v Speaker 1>loves her in spite of her flaws, When every time

1302
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:45.159
<v Speaker 1>she talks about it really sounds like God hates her

1303
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and that that's the way that you're taught to believe.

1304
01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:50.480
<v Speaker 1>And I think you're right. Oftentimes, particularly as a woman,

1305
01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:52.760
<v Speaker 1>you can't even you can't even trust your own self.

1306
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, there is a I mean there are if

1307
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:59.039
<v Speaker 2>we saw the figure of Jesus as picked it in

1308
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.199
<v Speaker 2>the gospel, particularly in the Gospel of John, but in

1309
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:05.079
<v Speaker 2>all the gospel today, if we met that person, we

1310
01:07:05.159 --> 01:07:07.920
<v Speaker 2>would very easily say, this is a cult leader, is

1311
01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:11.840
<v Speaker 2>a manipulative cult leader, right, who does the tactics that

1312
01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:13.960
<v Speaker 2>cult leaders do today They make you feel like shit

1313
01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:16.639
<v Speaker 2>and say, hey, you're not good enough for my love

1314
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and make you try to earn that. And we and

1315
01:07:19.239 --> 01:07:23.719
<v Speaker 2>as we know today as as popular psychology has taught

1316
01:07:23.800 --> 01:07:27.679
<v Speaker 2>us about toxic relationships and toxic people, right, like, hey,

1317
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:30.960
<v Speaker 2>there are signs to avoid, there are red flags in people.

1318
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:34.360
<v Speaker 2>And Jesus absolutely displays that, and Christianity as a whole

1319
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:40.000
<v Speaker 2>displays that in their typeified relationships with human beings to God. Right,

1320
01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:42.679
<v Speaker 2>there's a million examples of this. We're already talked about this.

1321
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:46.360
<v Speaker 2>And and part of that subcategory that is the is

1322
01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:49.719
<v Speaker 2>women's subservience to men as well, which is just an

1323
01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:52.440
<v Speaker 2>extra layer of bullshit that gets wrapped up in all this.

1324
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:55.159
<v Speaker 2>So Steven, I hear you, and you are you are

1325
01:07:55.280 --> 01:07:57.880
<v Speaker 2>heard here because I mean again, this is why I

1326
01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:02.039
<v Speaker 2>do what I do personally, because for stories like yours,

1327
01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:05.400
<v Speaker 2>because I think that this is an act of liberation

1328
01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.000
<v Speaker 2>for both of us, for all three of us. Right,

1329
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:11.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not just about winning a debate whether God or

1330
01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:13.360
<v Speaker 2>not exists. At the end of the day, I'm less

1331
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:15.840
<v Speaker 2>interested in that. I'm more interested in what this can

1332
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:20.680
<v Speaker 2>do for people, right, Like, yeah, God's not real, that's true,

1333
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:24.319
<v Speaker 2>and that's fair, but like it's more than that. If

1334
01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:26.239
<v Speaker 2>it was just that, I don't think I would care

1335
01:08:26.239 --> 01:08:29.239
<v Speaker 2>about this as much. Look how much your life has

1336
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:33.439
<v Speaker 2>changed since you've deconstructed these beliefs. Look how much Sophia's

1337
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:35.439
<v Speaker 2>life has changed and my life has changed. It's a

1338
01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:38.680
<v Speaker 2>life changing event, and it's for the better. I would argue.

1339
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:40.840
<v Speaker 2>The Christians would say no, but I say no, it

1340
01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:42.760
<v Speaker 2>is for the better because obviously you see the growth

1341
01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:45.159
<v Speaker 2>in yourself. I've seen the change, and that's what I

1342
01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:47.920
<v Speaker 2>want for other people personally, And that's why I talk

1343
01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:50.960
<v Speaker 2>about this stuff. Thanks for thanks for that call, Stephen.

1344
01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:54.039
<v Speaker 7>You said it, Yeah, you said it perfectly, And I

1345
01:08:54.199 --> 01:08:56.159
<v Speaker 7>just want to say it is life changing when you

1346
01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:59.960
<v Speaker 7>go from waking up every day thinking you know everything

1347
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:04.279
<v Speaker 7>to you know nothing and and and you know and

1348
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:08.000
<v Speaker 7>you want to learn something that day, and so you know,

1349
01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:11.039
<v Speaker 7>I'm going to keep deconstructing. I just wanted to say that,

1350
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:14.720
<v Speaker 7>you know, in my own personal experience, I have found that,

1351
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:18.520
<v Speaker 7>you know, I was a much worse person when I

1352
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:20.960
<v Speaker 7>was a Christian when when I thought that when I

1353
01:09:21.119 --> 01:09:25.880
<v Speaker 7>was justified, than I am today wanting to be the

1354
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:28.279
<v Speaker 7>things that I thought I was standing up for when

1355
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:29.279
<v Speaker 7>I was a Christian.

1356
01:09:29.560 --> 01:09:34.399
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Amen, Amen, Stephen, Amen, very much. Uh good, thank you,

1357
01:09:34.640 --> 01:09:36.760
<v Speaker 2>thank you for your testimony. Thank you for your witness

1358
01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:40.520
<v Speaker 2>testimony today. We appreciate that. Yeah, the congregation here we

1359
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:47.800
<v Speaker 2>love that. You guys love that. Yeah, I think, oh, sorry, Stephen,

1360
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I think I think he went ahead and uh I

1361
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:52.720
<v Speaker 2>dropped off there. But thank you, Steven, thank you so

1362
01:09:52.840 --> 01:09:57.520
<v Speaker 2>much for that call. That was wonderful, honestly really good. Yeah,

1363
01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:02.479
<v Speaker 2>actually beautiful. Yeah, that's really the greatest show.

1364
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the grincha meters now involved and like we got there.

1365
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:11.000
<v Speaker 1>It was my goodness. You know, something that I'm was

1366
01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:13.439
<v Speaker 1>thinking about when you mentioned to the just being a

1367
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:14.960
<v Speaker 1>woman in a southern state. You know, I am in

1368
01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Texas and some people were really confused as to I

1369
01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:20.880
<v Speaker 1>moved here. And I've now gone through two pregnancies in

1370
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Texas and both have been kind of terrifying. When you

1371
01:10:22.880 --> 01:10:25.760
<v Speaker 1>think about who owns me, and that that's a question

1372
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:28.479
<v Speaker 1>that some people would find legitimate and think that they

1373
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.800
<v Speaker 1>could answer. That's that's pretty bizarre that people can think

1374
01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:34.640
<v Speaker 1>they can own me and own you know, my decisions.

1375
01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:38.560
<v Speaker 1>This week, a lot of folks are talking about how

1376
01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:41.159
<v Speaker 1>if you I believe the quote that came out was

1377
01:10:41.800 --> 01:10:45.159
<v Speaker 1>to the effect that if you vote differently than your husband,

1378
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:48.039
<v Speaker 1>it's like cheating on him. And of course, though I

1379
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:49.880
<v Speaker 1>have to wonder what they would do in my situation

1380
01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:52.399
<v Speaker 1>where my husband is not an American citizen. So I

1381
01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:56.399
<v Speaker 1>guess that I is that inherently anyway, never mind, I

1382
01:10:56.880 --> 01:10:58.359
<v Speaker 1>don't really have a conclusion to that, but I was

1383
01:10:58.439 --> 01:11:00.680
<v Speaker 1>just sort of curious about what the recommendation for that

1384
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:01.079
<v Speaker 1>would be.

1385
01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:06.119
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I don't know, Uh, these most people don't

1386
01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:08.359
<v Speaker 2>have these things too thought out in my experience, So

1387
01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:11.640
<v Speaker 2>we're just we're just I don't know. That's why we're here,

1388
01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:14.479
<v Speaker 2>I guess so we can think it out. But anyway,

1389
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:17.680
<v Speaker 2>we have we have at least at least two more

1390
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:20.039
<v Speaker 2>calls I want to try to get to before the

1391
01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:22.800
<v Speaker 2>end here, and I want to let's just jump to

1392
01:11:22.840 --> 01:11:24.840
<v Speaker 2>them right away, because when we have the other Steven

1393
01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:26.640
<v Speaker 2>who's been waiting for a while, so I want to

1394
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.560
<v Speaker 2>get to them. First, we got Steven from New York

1395
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:32.840
<v Speaker 2>who wants to talk to us. So, Steven, you are

1396
01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:35.720
<v Speaker 2>live on talking Heathen. What's going on?

1397
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:37.680
<v Speaker 8>First of all, my mouth is a little driver, so

1398
01:11:37.880 --> 01:11:42.439
<v Speaker 8>please bear with me. But yeah, Satanism is very antagonistic,

1399
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:45.880
<v Speaker 8>and I think Christians need more respect.

1400
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Christians need more respect from Satanists.

1401
01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:54.239
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, say to this could be very hostile and also

1402
01:11:54.359 --> 01:12:00.279
<v Speaker 8>have an analogy about why Satanism doesn't work.

1403
01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, well let's one thing at a time. Why

1404
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:06.399
<v Speaker 2>do Satanists need to give more respect to Christians?

1405
01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:11.000
<v Speaker 8>I just think it's uh, rather of a churist. They

1406
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:16.319
<v Speaker 8>like wave pentagrams at Christians and kind of harassment. I

1407
01:12:16.359 --> 01:12:20.199
<v Speaker 8>think it's uh, it's I'm not even Christian, but I

1408
01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.199
<v Speaker 8>think they deserve more respect.

1409
01:12:23.439 --> 01:12:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, can you give me example, because when are when

1410
01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:28.880
<v Speaker 2>are they waiving pentagrams in Christian spaces? If there is one,

1411
01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I want to know, But I'm just not aware of

1412
01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:32.039
<v Speaker 2>that happening.

1413
01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:35.239
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I've seen Satanist.

1414
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Be really.

1415
01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:42.439
<v Speaker 8>Rude to Christians, and I have an example of why

1416
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:45.199
<v Speaker 8>it would be for I remember you were talking about

1417
01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:50.119
<v Speaker 8>Resona bel for another day. I like that also, you

1418
01:12:50.199 --> 01:12:54.600
<v Speaker 8>know that has you know, like scary uh Spaniard villagers

1419
01:12:55.399 --> 01:12:59.119
<v Speaker 8>and the local illuminatos called. Just because I like that

1420
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:03.000
<v Speaker 8>doesn't mean I would go up to someone who is

1421
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.399
<v Speaker 8>afraid of ghosts, let's say, And I wouldn't go up

1422
01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:09.920
<v Speaker 8>to them in a magenta or violet cloak and try

1423
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.640
<v Speaker 8>to scare them and be disrespectful to them.

1424
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.199
<v Speaker 2>I agree, I just I don't know if this is

1425
01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:18.520
<v Speaker 2>a thing that's happening in reality, right, Like, Okay, so

1426
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:22.079
<v Speaker 2>the Satanist organizations that I'm aware of broadly what they do,

1427
01:13:22.199 --> 01:13:23.760
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not a Satanist by the way, so you

1428
01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:26.600
<v Speaker 2>probably should be complaining to the Satanists and not maybe

1429
01:13:26.680 --> 01:13:31.520
<v Speaker 2>me and Sofia, but broadly, right, Like, you know, they

1430
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.880
<v Speaker 2>are filing lawsuits and they are you know, putting in

1431
01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:41.359
<v Speaker 2>claims for just stuff that broadly involves religious freedom. Like

1432
01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:43.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to think of specific stuff like when they

1433
01:13:43.479 --> 01:13:45.279
<v Speaker 2>say that they are it's going to be after school

1434
01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:47.560
<v Speaker 2>clubs or whatever, and they want to add religious after

1435
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:49.279
<v Speaker 2>school clubs, then they'll be like, okay, we're going to

1436
01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:52.159
<v Speaker 2>make a Satanist after school club. Or if there's going

1437
01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:56.520
<v Speaker 2>to be you know, two like plaques that honor have

1438
01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:01.439
<v Speaker 2>like a cross on you know, a government property or

1439
01:14:01.479 --> 01:14:03.199
<v Speaker 2>a school campus. They're gonna be like, Okay, we're going

1440
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:05.319
<v Speaker 2>to make a Satanist plaque, right, And it's just more

1441
01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to make a point, right, It's like to kind of

1442
01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>show like, hey, we exist too, and there's other religious

1443
01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:15.199
<v Speaker 2>groups that exist beyond Christianity, and oftentimes these policies that

1444
01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:19.119
<v Speaker 2>are supposed to be allegedly for religious freedom are really

1445
01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:22.479
<v Speaker 2>to further a Christian hegemony, right, to further a Christian agenda.

1446
01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:26.319
<v Speaker 2>So and politically, that's the kind of actions I see

1447
01:14:26.359 --> 01:14:29.119
<v Speaker 2>from Satanists. Can they be like pretentious? I mean that's

1448
01:14:29.119 --> 01:14:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a matter of opinion, But I don't know of any

1449
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:34.119
<v Speaker 2>Satanists that are like going up to Christians faces with

1450
01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:37.880
<v Speaker 2>pentagrams or whatever. That's not what I'm aware of. Maybe

1451
01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:40.479
<v Speaker 2>you know of some examples, and I'd love to hear that,

1452
01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:43.840
<v Speaker 2>But like that's my understanding of like politically what Satanists

1453
01:14:43.880 --> 01:14:45.520
<v Speaker 2>have been doing in America for a bit.

1454
01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:49.039
<v Speaker 1>I think I would also sort of throw in there

1455
01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:54.039
<v Speaker 1>that it's hard to make these generalizations about a group

1456
01:14:54.119 --> 01:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>that is in the dramatic minority. So when we think

1457
01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:02.399
<v Speaker 1>about satan activists, and I'm not a Satanist either, So

1458
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:04.600
<v Speaker 1>there might be a Satanist out there like yelling at

1459
01:15:04.640 --> 01:15:07.079
<v Speaker 1>their screen because whatever I'm going to say is going

1460
01:15:07.119 --> 01:15:09.399
<v Speaker 1>to be wrong, but I'll do my best. When I

1461
01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:12.199
<v Speaker 1>think about kind of their activism, it's if they were

1462
01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:15.319
<v Speaker 1>polite about it. Sometimes, if people are just like, well,

1463
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.359
<v Speaker 1>if you know, if it's okay with everybody, we would

1464
01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>like you to not put the Ten Commandments in the courthouse.

1465
01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Things like that. Sometimes I think these dramatic actions are

1466
01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:31.479
<v Speaker 1>done in order to even have a fighting chance to

1467
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:36.239
<v Speaker 1>even be heard or seen, because I think oftentimes people

1468
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:39.319
<v Speaker 1>who have tried polite tactics, who have tried to say, hey,

1469
01:15:39.479 --> 01:15:41.359
<v Speaker 1>just let me live how I want to live, that

1470
01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:44.239
<v Speaker 1>hasn't really been met with any response. It's very easy

1471
01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:47.560
<v Speaker 1>to steamroll someone if they are searching for that consensus,

1472
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:50.560
<v Speaker 1>like interpersonally, I agree with you, like I think that

1473
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:52.600
<v Speaker 1>if if somebody disagrees with you, and you're just like,

1474
01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be a jerk about it, don't you know,

1475
01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:00.439
<v Speaker 1>don't do that. You know, on this show, I respond

1476
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:02.359
<v Speaker 1>to things differently than maybe I do in real life.

1477
01:16:02.399 --> 01:16:04.239
<v Speaker 1>If someone has a faith and they don't want to

1478
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:07.279
<v Speaker 1>necessarily discuss it with me. That's not something that I'm

1479
01:16:07.319 --> 01:16:11.039
<v Speaker 1>going to just venture into. And if it feels like

1480
01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:13.560
<v Speaker 1>they're just wanting to say what they believe and don't,

1481
01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>aren't there for an argument like that's that's fine. But

1482
01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to these questions of rights for other citizens,

1483
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:24.760
<v Speaker 1>I kind of get the antagonistic approach, even if it's

1484
01:16:24.800 --> 01:16:26.159
<v Speaker 1>not what I personally would take.

1485
01:16:26.359 --> 01:16:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, are they trolling sometimes a little bit? Yeah, I'll

1486
01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:32.399
<v Speaker 2>give you that, sure, But it's like, I don't know,

1487
01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:35.079
<v Speaker 2>is it rude though? Like how rude is it? Is

1488
01:16:35.119 --> 01:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>it any more rude than putting like you gave the

1489
01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:39.800
<v Speaker 2>example right tank commandments? Is it rude to put a

1490
01:16:39.880 --> 01:16:43.199
<v Speaker 2>Baphomet statue up? Is it any more rude than having

1491
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:45.680
<v Speaker 2>a ten Commandment statue up? I don't know. That's a

1492
01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:46.479
<v Speaker 2>matter of opinion.

1493
01:16:46.520 --> 01:16:50.960
<v Speaker 8>I guess I think it takes away serenity because they're

1494
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:53.399
<v Speaker 8>pretending to be Satanist. They're not really they don't really

1495
01:16:53.479 --> 01:16:57.840
<v Speaker 8>believe in Satan, so it's not a real religion like

1496
01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:02.520
<v Speaker 8>other religions, other religions, other religions. Even though they may

1497
01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:07.479
<v Speaker 8>need to understand that church and state separation is needed.

1498
01:17:07.960 --> 01:17:14.680
<v Speaker 8>They're not doing something on purpose to be rude to others,

1499
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:21.039
<v Speaker 8>but Satanists are. I think it's basically just a word game.

1500
01:17:22.600 --> 01:17:23.640
<v Speaker 8>That's basically what it is.

1501
01:17:24.479 --> 01:17:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Religion. First of all, let's put a pin in that, okay,

1502
01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:30.079
<v Speaker 2>because I don't know if you can tell the Satanists

1503
01:17:30.399 --> 01:17:32.920
<v Speaker 2>what their religion is or isn't. I think that's up

1504
01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to them in the same way that by the way,

1505
01:17:35.239 --> 01:17:38.399
<v Speaker 2>and I pulled this both ways. If a Christian, if

1506
01:17:38.439 --> 01:17:41.239
<v Speaker 2>somebody tells me I don't believe in God and I'm

1507
01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:43.840
<v Speaker 2>a Christian, I still accept that they're a Christian, right,

1508
01:17:44.039 --> 01:17:46.279
<v Speaker 2>because that's their self identity. So I don't care. I

1509
01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:47.960
<v Speaker 2>don't give a shit if that's what they identify, that's

1510
01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:49.920
<v Speaker 2>what they identify as. But we can point to common

1511
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:53.119
<v Speaker 2>denominators there. So yeah, broadly speaking, most Satanists, at least

1512
01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:55.720
<v Speaker 2>that I know of, don't literally believe in Satan as

1513
01:17:55.760 --> 01:17:57.680
<v Speaker 2>a figure. That doesn't matter. That doesn't mean that their

1514
01:17:57.680 --> 01:18:00.479
<v Speaker 2>religion is not a religion, right, because religion is more

1515
01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>than just a god belief or add belief. It's also ideology, right,

1516
01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:08.079
<v Speaker 2>and so they fulfill that ideology to a t. When

1517
01:18:08.119 --> 01:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>they're putting Baphomet's statues up. Okay, I don't care if

1518
01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:13.560
<v Speaker 2>you don't think so. They definitely do. That's definitely part

1519
01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:16.199
<v Speaker 2>of the religion and that's what they follow through. So

1520
01:18:16.399 --> 01:18:19.399
<v Speaker 2>this idea that they don't count because they don't actually

1521
01:18:19.439 --> 01:18:21.960
<v Speaker 2>believe in a real figure, that's not the point, right,

1522
01:18:22.079 --> 01:18:23.960
<v Speaker 2>It's there's a little bit more to it than that.

1523
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:26.600
<v Speaker 1>I think I would also throw in there that it's

1524
01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:29.720
<v Speaker 1>a very strange expectation to think that if something doesn't

1525
01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:33.239
<v Speaker 1>seem like a religion, they should pay homage or respect

1526
01:18:33.359 --> 01:18:37.039
<v Speaker 1>to something that is a religion. In our viewpoint, that's

1527
01:18:37.039 --> 01:18:42.119
<v Speaker 1>a really bizarre expectation. I mean, they could entirely come

1528
01:18:42.159 --> 01:18:44.399
<v Speaker 1>out and be like, all of this is fake. We're

1529
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>just doing it for the human rights standpoint. I still

1530
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.880
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's a reason for them to behave a

1531
01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:55.000
<v Speaker 1>particular way or to privilege Christianity, because they aren't just trolling.

1532
01:18:55.359 --> 01:18:57.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't see why that would be the case.

1533
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, generally speaking, it isn't just for wing right. There's

1534
01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:04.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of trolling, okay, but there is a

1535
01:19:04.880 --> 01:19:08.079
<v Speaker 2>bigger point, right, There is a sort of larger, sort

1536
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:12.039
<v Speaker 2>of ideological framework that they're working under. Endpoint that's being

1537
01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:15.199
<v Speaker 2>made with a lot of these sort of political sort

1538
01:19:15.239 --> 01:19:20.279
<v Speaker 2>of statements and stunts that a lot of Satanist group's done.

1539
01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>So it's not just for nothing, it's not just to

1540
01:19:23.079 --> 01:19:25.199
<v Speaker 2>piss people off, but it is a little bit.

1541
01:19:25.239 --> 01:19:25.479
<v Speaker 4>I think.

1542
01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I think they'd be lying if people were like, yeah,

1543
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:31.680
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of fun to piss people off, so but yeah,

1544
01:19:31.720 --> 01:19:35.199
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't work with civility politics, Steven, if that's your point, so.

1545
01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:37.119
<v Speaker 8>I would say, where there's a will, there's a way.

1546
01:19:37.199 --> 01:19:40.479
<v Speaker 8>If if there's like a problem with church and stay

1547
01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:45.079
<v Speaker 8>separation occurring, then then you you know, they could they

1548
01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:48.079
<v Speaker 8>could talk about it instead of acting in this strange

1549
01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:50.840
<v Speaker 8>way and kind of you know, yeah.

1550
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:56.399
<v Speaker 2>You know why we I mean people, The reason why

1551
01:19:56.479 --> 01:19:59.119
<v Speaker 2>evolution is taught in schools is because a teacher made

1552
01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:01.760
<v Speaker 2>a stink about it. Right, Sometimes you have to make

1553
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:04.520
<v Speaker 2>a stink about it in order for things to make

1554
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:05.000
<v Speaker 2>a change.

1555
01:20:05.079 --> 01:20:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1556
01:20:05.279 --> 01:20:10.399
<v Speaker 2>Madeline Murray O'Hare, for example, founder of American Atheists, made

1557
01:20:10.439 --> 01:20:12.720
<v Speaker 2>a huge stink about a lot of stuff. And she

1558
01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:16.199
<v Speaker 2>of course was notorious for the stink that she made.

1559
01:20:16.399 --> 01:20:18.199
<v Speaker 2>But if she hadn't made the stink that she made,

1560
01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:20.760
<v Speaker 2>American Atheist wouldn't be a thing and wouldn't be doing

1561
01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:22.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff right, So you kind of have to make a

1562
01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:27.720
<v Speaker 2>stink sometimes. Yeah, some people off, Yeah, but it has

1563
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:30.319
<v Speaker 2>to be done in order for a change to happen sometimes.

1564
01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:33.319
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, I disagree with that notion that well,

1565
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:35.119
<v Speaker 2>we all have to play nights all the time.

1566
01:20:35.119 --> 01:20:35.279
<v Speaker 7>You know.

1567
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:37.920
<v Speaker 1>I think that I've heard a lot of nice people

1568
01:20:38.199 --> 01:20:40.640
<v Speaker 1>tell me that I shouldn't have access to things like

1569
01:20:41.560 --> 01:20:43.479
<v Speaker 1>quite a few different kinds of birth control, quite a

1570
01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:45.880
<v Speaker 1>few different like there's I think, as a as a

1571
01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:49.800
<v Speaker 1>person of the of the lady persuasion being, getting this

1572
01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:54.479
<v Speaker 1>idea that if you aren't offensive, then people will listen

1573
01:20:54.560 --> 01:20:56.720
<v Speaker 1>to you. I can tell you that that has never

1574
01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:59.680
<v Speaker 1>been the case in my entire life. No matter how

1575
01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:04.279
<v Speaker 1>a gentleman may be, they just don't necessarily understand your

1576
01:21:04.319 --> 01:21:06.920
<v Speaker 1>experience until you present it to them. And sometimes they're

1577
01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:10.960
<v Speaker 1>not ready to listen. So making a stink, making a fuss,

1578
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:13.520
<v Speaker 1>making it so other people have to see and hear you,

1579
01:21:13.960 --> 01:21:18.720
<v Speaker 1>sometimes that does become necessary. It's people you're saying, where

1580
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>there's a will, there's a way, Maybe this is the way.

1581
01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:23.840
<v Speaker 1>And I think the other thing I would say is great.

1582
01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:26.399
<v Speaker 1>If you don't believe in that kind of activism, don't

1583
01:21:26.520 --> 01:21:29.640
<v Speaker 1>do it. But yeah, then do it a different way yourself.

1584
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, I personally don't attack the people of

1585
01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:37.560
<v Speaker 1>faith for you know, unless they want to have some

1586
01:21:37.680 --> 01:21:39.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of discussion, or even then I don't think I'm attacking.

1587
01:21:40.359 --> 01:21:43.279
<v Speaker 1>But I really can't tell people who feel like their

1588
01:21:43.359 --> 01:21:46.399
<v Speaker 1>rights are at stake not to make a big fuss

1589
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>about it.

1590
01:21:47.159 --> 01:21:49.600
<v Speaker 2>You know. See, we gotta let you go because I

1591
01:21:49.640 --> 01:21:50.760
<v Speaker 2>want to take at least I want to have the

1592
01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:52.439
<v Speaker 2>call before we go. But anything else you want to

1593
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:53.279
<v Speaker 2>add before we let you go.

1594
01:21:53.800 --> 01:21:56.560
<v Speaker 8>I still think you get more views with honey than

1595
01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:57.119
<v Speaker 8>with vinegar.

1596
01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:02.279
<v Speaker 2>I kind of disagree with Well, hey guess hey, here's

1597
01:22:02.319 --> 01:22:04.199
<v Speaker 2>my response to that, Steven. How did you find the

1598
01:22:04.239 --> 01:22:08.000
<v Speaker 2>atheist community of Austin. Was it from Matt dillahunty being

1599
01:22:08.119 --> 01:22:10.520
<v Speaker 2>nice and sweet to some of these callers, or was

1600
01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:14.239
<v Speaker 2>it from Matt like ripping into somebody, yeah, being aggressive?

1601
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:19.720
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, then that makes a difference, right, kind of

1602
01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:22.479
<v Speaker 2>makes a difference just a little bit, Steven. I'll let

1603
01:22:22.479 --> 01:22:24.439
<v Speaker 2>you go now. But and again I use Matt because

1604
01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:27.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, most people probably fire stuff through man Man's

1605
01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:29.520
<v Speaker 2>probably the most popular host, I mean, is the most

1606
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:32.199
<v Speaker 2>popular host that has ever been part of Atheist Comuni

1607
01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:33.880
<v Speaker 2>of Austin. Right, But it's like, yeah, that's if you

1608
01:22:33.920 --> 01:22:36.520
<v Speaker 2>look at our top ten clips. I'm sorry, it's not

1609
01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:40.359
<v Speaker 2>us saying, oh, good good job, caller, you're doing great.

1610
01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:42.039
<v Speaker 2>It's people being just a little snarky.

1611
01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I think I also would find out that it's pretty

1612
01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:46.880
<v Speaker 1>funny to be like, yeah, like I have tried to

1613
01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:49.560
<v Speaker 1>advocate for myself politely and people just fully ignore me.

1614
01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:53.119
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, no, okay, Yeah, I don't know what

1615
01:22:53.159 --> 01:22:55.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm supposed to say to that, other than like, I

1616
01:22:55.560 --> 01:22:57.720
<v Speaker 1>guess you're not going to advocate for anybody Like. It

1617
01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:00.319
<v Speaker 1>just doesn't feel like there's you know, if you want

1618
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:02.920
<v Speaker 1>everyone to be polite, I guess that's just not going

1619
01:23:02.960 --> 01:23:04.800
<v Speaker 1>to be the I can't rely on you for advocacy

1620
01:23:04.840 --> 01:23:07.479
<v Speaker 1>full stop, because that's not always how it goes. Yeah.

1621
01:23:07.880 --> 01:23:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, aggression for aggression for aggression's sake

1622
01:23:13.640 --> 01:23:16.079
<v Speaker 2>in greade either. I'm not saying that, but I don't

1623
01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:18.520
<v Speaker 2>think the Satanists are doing that. Maybe some of them are.

1624
01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:21.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know all their hearts, but I from the

1625
01:23:21.640 --> 01:23:24.359
<v Speaker 2>ones I've talked to and from the interviews I've seen

1626
01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:27.800
<v Speaker 2>from people, it's people who are generally fighting for something

1627
01:23:27.960 --> 01:23:31.359
<v Speaker 2>larger than themselves, right, fighting for our principle that they

1628
01:23:31.479 --> 01:23:33.960
<v Speaker 2>believe in, and the way to do that is to

1629
01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:37.319
<v Speaker 2>ruffle some feathers. Sometimes. That's why people find activists annoying,

1630
01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:40.760
<v Speaker 2>because we tend to ruffle people's feathers in shud.

1631
01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:43.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, and we can also be very easily characterized as

1632
01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:46.600
<v Speaker 1>being mean to people of faith. Are very existence as

1633
01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:50.600
<v Speaker 1>atheists in public can be characterized similarly to how atheists

1634
01:23:50.680 --> 01:23:54.239
<v Speaker 1>or Satanists were being characterized in that case. So I

1635
01:23:54.279 --> 01:23:56.960
<v Speaker 1>guess kind of shrug, like, people can say that about

1636
01:23:57.000 --> 01:23:59.880
<v Speaker 1>me too. Yeah, I think they'd be wrong, but they could.

1637
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I uh yeah, I agree. I still want to

1638
01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:05.239
<v Speaker 2>take this one other call that we have in the

1639
01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>queue here. I know we're like at the end of

1640
01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the show, but like, I think it's really interesting one,

1641
01:24:09.279 --> 01:24:11.479
<v Speaker 2>so I want to just jump right to it. So

1642
01:24:11.560 --> 01:24:14.439
<v Speaker 2>let's say this. We got D calling in from Iowa.

1643
01:24:15.119 --> 01:24:18.199
<v Speaker 2>D you live on Talk Heathen. Give us your take here.

1644
01:24:18.279 --> 01:24:20.800
<v Speaker 2>You're telling us that atheists need to be are tolerant

1645
01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:23.760
<v Speaker 2>of those within our own ranks that still hold on

1646
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:27.199
<v Speaker 2>to spiritual beliefs. I'd love for you to expound on that. Hi.

1647
01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:31.279
<v Speaker 6>Hi guys, thanks for taking my call. Can I just

1648
01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:36.000
<v Speaker 6>say first a couple of things about Stephen just now?

1649
01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:39.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean I normally i'd say, yes, we are at

1650
01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:41.439
<v Speaker 2>the tail end of your show. If you can keep

1651
01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:45.439
<v Speaker 2>your comments to thirty seconds or under, then yes I can.

1652
01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:46.159
<v Speaker 2>I can.

1653
01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:49.399
<v Speaker 6>Respect is earned, that's all same.

1654
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, that was under thirty seconds.

1655
01:24:52.479 --> 01:24:59.560
<v Speaker 6>Good job, he said, He said, he said the Sataness

1656
01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:02.880
<v Speaker 6>should be more respectful. Well, I say, respect is earned.

1657
01:25:02.760 --> 01:25:05.399
<v Speaker 2>All right, all right, all right, we're doing some Shakespeare

1658
01:25:05.439 --> 01:25:08.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff today. Amazing equips. Sorry, do you go ahead?

1659
01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:10.880
<v Speaker 5>No?

1660
01:25:11.399 --> 01:25:15.359
<v Speaker 6>Anyway, what I wanted to say is that deconversion is

1661
01:25:15.439 --> 01:25:21.439
<v Speaker 6>a process. Some people take a while, and their and

1662
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:25.760
<v Speaker 6>their beliefs and their views and their mindsets change over time.

1663
01:25:25.840 --> 01:25:29.239
<v Speaker 6>And that's where I'm coming from. I started out as

1664
01:25:29.720 --> 01:25:35.960
<v Speaker 6>a charismatic fundamentalist. I went to UH, I left the church,

1665
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:41.039
<v Speaker 6>so I quote unquote practice Christianity on my own, kind

1666
01:25:41.079 --> 01:25:42.560
<v Speaker 6>of like a solitary Wickan.

1667
01:25:42.399 --> 01:25:42.840
<v Speaker 4>Sort of thing.

1668
01:25:44.079 --> 01:25:50.119
<v Speaker 6>And then I pivoted from Christianity to a generous spirituality,

1669
01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:53.279
<v Speaker 6>and so on and so forth until I find myself

1670
01:25:53.560 --> 01:25:58.880
<v Speaker 6>now being a secular Buddhist, and that took me literal

1671
01:25:59.079 --> 01:26:02.479
<v Speaker 6>decades to get to and a lot of us are

1672
01:26:02.680 --> 01:26:09.720
<v Speaker 6>still on that gradual path. We are evolving and and

1673
01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:12.720
<v Speaker 6>I'm not going to go into it, but I still

1674
01:26:12.800 --> 01:26:16.159
<v Speaker 6>hold a couple of very personal, spiritual type beliefs.

1675
01:26:16.840 --> 01:26:19.479
<v Speaker 4>I think that we we.

1676
01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:24.399
<v Speaker 6>I I'm I'm with you guys that that I want.

1677
01:26:24.680 --> 01:26:29.399
<v Speaker 6>I want to be a force for bringing the truth

1678
01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:32.880
<v Speaker 6>into the world and freeing people and helping them heal

1679
01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:34.079
<v Speaker 6>from religious trauma.

1680
01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:34.640
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

1681
01:26:35.159 --> 01:26:38.079
<v Speaker 6>I think that we all have a part to play,

1682
01:26:38.399 --> 01:26:42.800
<v Speaker 6>and I would really like to see some people, well,

1683
01:26:43.079 --> 01:26:46.119
<v Speaker 6>I guess we're talking about respect, have a little more

1684
01:26:46.239 --> 01:26:51.079
<v Speaker 6>respect for the journey that each individual is taking. Like

1685
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:55.880
<v Speaker 6>I had one host tell me, yeah, sure, spirituality is fine.

1686
01:26:56.319 --> 01:26:59.439
<v Speaker 6>Uh you know, like if you're a heroin addict going

1687
01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:03.560
<v Speaker 6>through with and giving you some heroin occasionally through the process,

1688
01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:06.439
<v Speaker 6>it's okay. And I kind of I had to think

1689
01:27:06.479 --> 01:27:08.680
<v Speaker 6>about that for a couple of weeks because I thought,

1690
01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:11.760
<v Speaker 6>you know, you know, maybe for some people that might

1691
01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:14.319
<v Speaker 6>be true, but it wasn't true personally for me.

1692
01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:16.800
<v Speaker 4>So I was just kind of wondering what you guys

1693
01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:19.159
<v Speaker 4>think about all that this is.

1694
01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:21.479
<v Speaker 2>A tough one and very much related to what we

1695
01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:23.880
<v Speaker 2>were just talking about. So I think if you've seen

1696
01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:27.319
<v Speaker 2>my track record as a host, if anything, I have

1697
01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:29.880
<v Speaker 2>tried my best to reign in other hosts when I can,

1698
01:27:30.399 --> 01:27:32.199
<v Speaker 2>when I say, hey, hold on, we need to take

1699
01:27:32.239 --> 01:27:35.199
<v Speaker 2>a step back here, because we can glibble about little

1700
01:27:35.199 --> 01:27:39.039
<v Speaker 2>stuff all day. But you're absolutely right deconstruction And I

1701
01:27:39.399 --> 01:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>like the term deconstruction better than deconversion because it is

1702
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:47.399
<v Speaker 2>when you're deconstructing, it's there's bits that come in that process.

1703
01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:50.079
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't happen all at once, right, And that's true

1704
01:27:50.119 --> 01:27:51.880
<v Speaker 2>for me, that's true for a lot of us that

1705
01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.680
<v Speaker 2>go through that process. It's easy to forget for many

1706
01:27:54.760 --> 01:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>of us. The truth is it happens a day at

1707
01:27:56.920 --> 01:27:59.399
<v Speaker 2>a time, usually doesn't happen all at once. And in

1708
01:27:59.560 --> 01:28:03.239
<v Speaker 2>that there could be people who find your other parts

1709
01:28:03.239 --> 01:28:05.199
<v Speaker 2>of your beliefs still disagreeable and just want to just

1710
01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:07.399
<v Speaker 2>tear it all out right and just want to just

1711
01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:09.960
<v Speaker 2>rip just like a band aid, just rip it all off.

1712
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:12.000
<v Speaker 2>And there are some people that say that needs to happen.

1713
01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:14.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm not one of those people that necessarily says that.

1714
01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:18.479
<v Speaker 2>I think the problem is religious belief is also a

1715
01:28:18.520 --> 01:28:21.560
<v Speaker 2>philosophical one, it's also a social belief, right, it's also

1716
01:28:21.560 --> 01:28:25.439
<v Speaker 2>a psychological one, And you can't just do that with people. Unfortunately,

1717
01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:28.079
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't work. Even if in the most ideal circumstances,

1718
01:28:28.399 --> 01:28:30.960
<v Speaker 2>people can't just change the entire way they've been living

1719
01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:33.359
<v Speaker 2>their life in a single conversation because they had a

1720
01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:35.720
<v Speaker 2>debate with somebody online. It just doesn't work like that.

1721
01:28:35.880 --> 01:28:39.359
<v Speaker 2>So when it comes to respecting the process, I agree

1722
01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:42.199
<v Speaker 2>in respecting the process, I don't respect the beliefs. I'm

1723
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:44.600
<v Speaker 2>still going to say, hey, your belief is homophobic if

1724
01:28:44.640 --> 01:28:48.760
<v Speaker 2>you're being homophobic, right, and saying you're participating in a

1725
01:28:49.319 --> 01:28:52.439
<v Speaker 2>culture of homophobia. If somebody, for example, was to do

1726
01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:54.640
<v Speaker 2>something like that, right, even if they're deconstructing, even if

1727
01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:57.039
<v Speaker 2>they're if they're going through that process, again, I respect that,

1728
01:28:57.399 --> 01:28:59.520
<v Speaker 2>but I also have to be firm and say, hey,

1729
01:28:59.600 --> 01:29:02.239
<v Speaker 2>this still isn't right, right, And you know, that's just

1730
01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:04.960
<v Speaker 2>one example. But but the point is, like you have

1731
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:07.560
<v Speaker 2>to still be consistent even when talking with the folks

1732
01:29:07.600 --> 01:29:10.680
<v Speaker 2>who are deconstructing stuff, because you can still deconstruct and

1733
01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.840
<v Speaker 2>not and kind of stop like there may be some

1734
01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:16.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff you still leave untouched. Right, just because you're deconstructing

1735
01:29:16.840 --> 01:29:19.279
<v Speaker 2>some stuff doesn't mean you're deconstructing everything. It tends to

1736
01:29:19.359 --> 01:29:22.279
<v Speaker 2>happen most folks that do go deconstruction tend to also

1737
01:29:22.359 --> 01:29:24.600
<v Speaker 2>look at their political beliefs and stuff. But there are

1738
01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.079
<v Speaker 2>definitely some and I know this because I know atheists,

1739
01:29:27.119 --> 01:29:29.960
<v Speaker 2>for example, who do have some bias with people who

1740
01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>are gay, for example, like that's that's a that's a

1741
01:29:33.079 --> 01:29:35.479
<v Speaker 2>thing I have encountered. So it doesn't necessarily mean that

1742
01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:39.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're absolutely enlightened just because you have some

1743
01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:42.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff you agree with. So anyway, I guess I'm trying

1744
01:29:42.640 --> 01:29:44.880
<v Speaker 2>to say, I hear you. I absolutely hear you. And

1745
01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:48.399
<v Speaker 2>I definitely definitely have always tried, at least in my

1746
01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>position as a host, try to respect people's journey as

1747
01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:54.439
<v Speaker 2>much as I can, as much as is tolerable to me.

1748
01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:56.640
<v Speaker 2>And I also got to lay down the line sometimes too,

1749
01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:58.920
<v Speaker 2>because I can't just let people say, oh, well, they're

1750
01:29:58.920 --> 01:30:00.439
<v Speaker 2>going on the thing and we we don't have to

1751
01:30:00.479 --> 01:30:02.239
<v Speaker 2>call some stuff out. I got to call stuff out

1752
01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:04.800
<v Speaker 2>when they call it out. It's more just like I

1753
01:30:04.840 --> 01:30:08.359
<v Speaker 2>don't know, it's the social navigating that we all experience

1754
01:30:08.439 --> 01:30:10.319
<v Speaker 2>every day when we talk to other people, right, what's

1755
01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:12.399
<v Speaker 2>one's the best way to approach something And we all

1756
01:30:12.439 --> 01:30:13.840
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of figure it out on a day

1757
01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:16.800
<v Speaker 2>by day or a call by call basis in my case,

1758
01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:20.039
<v Speaker 2>but for most people it's just the day by day conversations. Anyway,

1759
01:30:20.079 --> 01:30:21.960
<v Speaker 2>that's my take there. I've been talking a lot, Sophia.

1760
01:30:22.399 --> 01:30:25.880
<v Speaker 1>We think, Yeah, so I think I fundamentally agree with

1761
01:30:25.960 --> 01:30:28.720
<v Speaker 1>you in the sense that you know being I do

1762
01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:31.279
<v Speaker 1>value kindness. I think being kind to people as often

1763
01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:35.159
<v Speaker 1>as you can viewing things from their perspective, so you can,

1764
01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:38.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, treat them how you'd want to be treated like.

1765
01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I think that's important. I also think it's important for

1766
01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:44.239
<v Speaker 1>us to consider what we're really responding to when we're

1767
01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:46.479
<v Speaker 1>talking to someone. And if you're an atheist and you're

1768
01:30:46.520 --> 01:30:49.279
<v Speaker 1>getting really irate or having really, as i'd say to

1769
01:30:49.359 --> 01:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>my kid, big feelings about something, it might not be

1770
01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:55.520
<v Speaker 1>feelings about the person in front of you actually arguing

1771
01:30:55.560 --> 01:30:57.640
<v Speaker 1>for a religion. It might be feelings that you're dealing

1772
01:30:57.720 --> 01:31:00.600
<v Speaker 1>with about coming from religion, and I think that that's

1773
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:05.000
<v Speaker 1>important to recognize. I think there is a part of

1774
01:31:05.119 --> 01:31:07.600
<v Speaker 1>me that does want to put out there that well,

1775
01:31:07.720 --> 01:31:11.119
<v Speaker 1>I definitely attempt to be respectful when I'm with folks.

1776
01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:16.399
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I get really emotionally tired of having to be

1777
01:31:17.119 --> 01:31:21.840
<v Speaker 1>this ideal atheist because I know I'm predominantly surrounded by Christians,

1778
01:31:21.880 --> 01:31:24.479
<v Speaker 1>and I know that anything I say is going to

1779
01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:28.720
<v Speaker 1>be seen as how atheists act, and so it can

1780
01:31:28.840 --> 01:31:31.680
<v Speaker 1>become a lot. It can become you just sort of

1781
01:31:31.760 --> 01:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>holding things in so you can nurture people who are

1782
01:31:34.359 --> 01:31:37.079
<v Speaker 1>part of the vast majority, many of whom are seeking

1783
01:31:37.119 --> 01:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>to take away rights from you that I know you're

1784
01:31:39.800 --> 01:31:42.279
<v Speaker 1>not suggesting that. I'm just wanting to acknowledge that that's

1785
01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:45.560
<v Speaker 1>really hard to do. And there are times when I

1786
01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:47.920
<v Speaker 1>want to lash out and be like, this is all bullshit.

1787
01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:49.239
<v Speaker 1>You don't get to tell me what to do because

1788
01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of your bullshit. You know that's and that's there too,

1789
01:31:53.279 --> 01:31:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Like I agree with you, And I think maybe my

1790
01:31:56.239 --> 01:31:58.239
<v Speaker 1>take would be atheists need to find a place to

1791
01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:01.680
<v Speaker 1>release as well, so that so that they can treat

1792
01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:04.800
<v Speaker 1>others respectfully. Because if I didn't have ways to have

1793
01:32:04.960 --> 01:32:07.760
<v Speaker 1>some catharsis with that, I think I would struggle more

1794
01:32:07.800 --> 01:32:09.600
<v Speaker 1>than I do. And it's it's still a struggle.

1795
01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if I, if I if It's what I've been

1796
01:32:12.159 --> 01:32:14.359
<v Speaker 2>saying for years at this point, and I always say

1797
01:32:14.399 --> 01:32:16.920
<v Speaker 2>this is you can be right, you can be convincing,

1798
01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:19.039
<v Speaker 2>but those are two different things at the end of

1799
01:32:19.079 --> 01:32:22.920
<v Speaker 2>the day, right, So do that as you will. But

1800
01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>I think that's that's everything I want to say about that.

1801
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Any other thoughts you want to share with us on

1802
01:32:27.560 --> 01:32:27.920
<v Speaker 2>that tea?

1803
01:32:28.399 --> 01:32:32.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and you know you're talking about people who, uh,

1804
01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:39.159
<v Speaker 6>maybe atheus, but they're still like homophobic or misogynists or like,

1805
01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:43.239
<v Speaker 6>that's not what I'm talking about. I mean, if somebody,

1806
01:32:44.159 --> 01:32:48.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, you know, if somebody it comes across homophobic

1807
01:32:48.119 --> 01:32:49.840
<v Speaker 6>or misogyns, definitely you got.

1808
01:32:49.800 --> 01:32:50.680
<v Speaker 2>To call them out on it.

1809
01:32:50.800 --> 01:32:53.159
<v Speaker 6>I don't have to call him out on it in

1810
01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:57.279
<v Speaker 6>reference to their belief Yeah, that makes sense.

1811
01:32:57.560 --> 01:33:00.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. But like Ardo,

1812
01:33:00.399 --> 01:33:03.119
<v Speaker 2>for example, we got to him earlier, who was had

1813
01:33:03.159 --> 01:33:06.880
<v Speaker 2>some probably some more progressive understandings of his religion and

1814
01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:09.600
<v Speaker 2>other people's religion. He was very kind to us. He thought, oh,

1815
01:33:09.640 --> 01:33:13.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to He explicitly said, oh, it's okay

1816
01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:15.119
<v Speaker 2>that we don't believe in God. Thank goodness, we got

1817
01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:16.960
<v Speaker 2>a Eduardo's permission for that. But it's like, hey, I'm

1818
01:33:16.960 --> 01:33:18.800
<v Speaker 2>still gonna tell Eduardo, Hey, I still think the whole

1819
01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:21.279
<v Speaker 2>god thing is dumb, right, Like I still say dumb.

1820
01:33:21.319 --> 01:33:23.279
<v Speaker 2>I didn't say dumb. Were just I don't think it's

1821
01:33:23.399 --> 01:33:28.119
<v Speaker 2>worth investing belief in, right, Like, yeah, he's agreed with

1822
01:33:28.199 --> 01:33:29.760
<v Speaker 2>me on a lot of stuff, but like, hey, I'll

1823
01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:31.199
<v Speaker 2>help him get the rest of the way there. I

1824
01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:33.640
<v Speaker 2>don't think just because yeah, he does win some points

1825
01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:35.920
<v Speaker 2>with me, because Okay, he agrees with me on some stuff,

1826
01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:38.880
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't just mean I get to just say, oh well, Eduardo,

1827
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I guess you know, maybe we can all agree to

1828
01:33:40.840 --> 01:33:44.600
<v Speaker 2>different things, and you know, you can have your belief

1829
01:33:44.680 --> 01:33:47.239
<v Speaker 2>system which tells you that mediums can contact the dead

1830
01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:49.239
<v Speaker 2>and we can have seances and stuff, right, which is

1831
01:33:49.279 --> 01:33:51.159
<v Speaker 2>apparently a thing that's a part of the system according

1832
01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:53.119
<v Speaker 2>to Wikipedia. So I don't know. I don't know if

1833
01:33:53.159 --> 01:33:56.199
<v Speaker 2>that gives us a license to just kind of be like, Okay,

1834
01:33:56.520 --> 01:33:59.000
<v Speaker 2>everybody can just do what they want now because we

1835
01:33:59.119 --> 01:34:02.640
<v Speaker 2>got some level of tolerance, right. But that's the debate

1836
01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:05.159
<v Speaker 2>of our time. I think a lot of smarter people

1837
01:34:05.159 --> 01:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>have talked about that on set more than me. I

1838
01:34:07.119 --> 01:34:08.079
<v Speaker 2>don't know, do you what do you.

1839
01:34:09.680 --> 01:34:14.600
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, No, I really appreciate you guys' views, and I

1840
01:34:14.680 --> 01:34:16.720
<v Speaker 6>do have some other things to say that I think

1841
01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:18.479
<v Speaker 6>i'll say that for the discord.

1842
01:34:18.760 --> 01:34:24.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that sounds good, great segue, great segwe d thank you,

1843
01:34:24.439 --> 01:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you for giving us that. I will let you

1844
01:34:25.960 --> 01:34:27.800
<v Speaker 2>go now because we are at the tail end of

1845
01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:32.279
<v Speaker 2>today's show. But as de mentioned, we are doing an

1846
01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:35.199
<v Speaker 2>after show right now, well not right now, like in

1847
01:34:35.279 --> 01:34:38.359
<v Speaker 2>a few minutes now. So tiny out Clash and d Discord.

1848
01:34:38.439 --> 01:34:40.720
<v Speaker 2>If you are watching this live, come hang out because

1849
01:34:40.720 --> 01:34:42.359
<v Speaker 2>we're both going to be there and Kelly's going to

1850
01:34:42.359 --> 01:34:44.720
<v Speaker 2>be there. Two shout outs to Kelly Laughlin, who's been

1851
01:34:44.760 --> 01:34:48.000
<v Speaker 2>our backup post today. If we could maybe get him

1852
01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:49.720
<v Speaker 2>on the screen. There he is. Look, he's got that,

1853
01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:52.880
<v Speaker 2>he's got that scarlet letter on today. He's feeling fancy.

1854
01:34:56.680 --> 01:34:59.920
<v Speaker 9>Dan, you mentioned that like atheistic belief goes back pretty

1855
01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:02.319
<v Speaker 9>and I have to do this with somebody in chats

1856
01:35:02.319 --> 01:35:07.319
<v Speaker 9>that I knew everything. So about three hundred BCEA in Greece,

1857
01:35:07.600 --> 01:35:12.199
<v Speaker 9>the philosopher Pearis was started some atheist philosophy, and if

1858
01:35:12.239 --> 01:35:14.399
<v Speaker 9>you want to go a couple hundred years beyond past

1859
01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:19.279
<v Speaker 9>that to about six hundred five hundred BCE and I'm

1860
01:35:19.319 --> 01:35:22.399
<v Speaker 9>hoping I pronounced this right. Brigus Patti was an Indian

1861
01:35:22.439 --> 01:35:25.800
<v Speaker 9>philosopher who started the school of Sharvaka, which is very

1862
01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:27.279
<v Speaker 9>much like modern atheism.

1863
01:35:27.479 --> 01:35:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, not even the only a atheist philosopher in India.

1864
01:35:30.800 --> 01:35:33.199
<v Speaker 2>Actually a couple of people that talked about it is. Yeah,

1865
01:35:33.680 --> 01:35:35.880
<v Speaker 2>there you go. Kelly does know everything. Thank you Kelly

1866
01:35:37.720 --> 01:35:41.079
<v Speaker 2>in the wellspring of knowledge, sir. We will see you

1867
01:35:41.159 --> 01:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>in the discord in just a second. And before we

1868
01:35:43.960 --> 01:35:45.439
<v Speaker 2>get going here too, I have to remind you, guys,

1869
01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:49.199
<v Speaker 2>what would a modern day plague b and give it

1870
01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:51.560
<v Speaker 2>to us in the comments section, please, so that we

1871
01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:55.640
<v Speaker 2>can read the best answers, the greatest answers next week

1872
01:35:56.039 --> 01:35:57.479
<v Speaker 2>on next week's program.

1873
01:35:57.640 --> 01:35:59.359
<v Speaker 1>And real quick before we go, we have a super

1874
01:35:59.479 --> 01:36:06.119
<v Speaker 1>chat yet that Yes, we have Robin hood stuff who

1875
01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:09.000
<v Speaker 1>sent us five Canadian dollars, which I just find fun

1876
01:36:09.079 --> 01:36:11.640
<v Speaker 1>to like specify. Hi, I am an atheist and I

1877
01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:17.880
<v Speaker 1>just watched Chris Spiracy. Christ Spiracy. Yeah, it's probably okay,

1878
01:36:18.199 --> 01:36:21.279
<v Speaker 1>and I recommend everyone to watch it. It will it exposed,

1879
01:36:21.359 --> 01:36:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to say, exposes religion for the animal sacrificing cult.

1880
01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:28.479
<v Speaker 1>That it is woof. That is an incendiary language.

1881
01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Sounds like some hot tapes on that little program. Yeah cool.

1882
01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:36.079
<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard of that, but maybe it's maybe it's cool.

1883
01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:37.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I can't say it's cool or not

1884
01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:39.920
<v Speaker 2>because I haven't seen it. But thanks for the shout out.

1885
01:36:40.159 --> 01:36:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'll check that out. Let's do some love rings. Actually,

1886
01:36:44.159 --> 01:36:46.399
<v Speaker 2>we got to do some love rings at the end

1887
01:36:46.520 --> 01:36:48.920
<v Speaker 2>of the show. You're ready for this. Put your charge,

1888
01:36:48.960 --> 01:36:52.439
<v Speaker 2>your magnets, and your geodes together. Get ready for this,

1889
01:36:53.680 --> 01:36:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Camme Hamie.

1890
01:36:56.479 --> 01:36:56.840
<v Speaker 7>There we go.

1891
01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Care I got it.

1892
01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>I've been trying to do the gen Z heart, but

1893
01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:04.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm not very good at it. Yeah, I'm too millennial.

1894
01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:05.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't quite get it.

1895
01:37:06.159 --> 01:37:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Your skinny jeans are preventing you from.

1896
01:37:09.319 --> 01:37:11.239
<v Speaker 1>Being are affecting my brain?

1897
01:37:11.680 --> 01:37:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly. That's awesome. Well, yeah, that's Those loverings are

1898
01:37:15.960 --> 01:37:19.840
<v Speaker 2>out there for the folks who are joining us in

1899
01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:23.720
<v Speaker 2>this community. And let's go ahead and give that sign off.

1900
01:37:23.800 --> 01:37:23.920
<v Speaker 4>Now.

1901
01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:26.319
<v Speaker 2>If you don't mind, Sophia, if you don't believe this

1902
01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:29.359
<v Speaker 2>is your community and we appreciate you being here, and

1903
01:37:29.439 --> 01:37:31.840
<v Speaker 2>if you do believe we don't hate you, We're just

1904
01:37:31.960 --> 01:37:54.600
<v Speaker 2>not convinced SIONI. Everybody will see you later. We want

1905
01:37:54.680 --> 01:37:58.239
<v Speaker 2>the truth, so watch Truth Wanted live Friday at seven

1906
01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:02.560
<v Speaker 2>pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y t tw

1907
01:38:03.039 --> 01:38:05.920
<v Speaker 2>and call into the show at five one two nine

1908
01:38:06.079 --> 01:38:09.279
<v Speaker 2>nine one nine two four two, or connect to the

1909
01:38:09.359 --> 01:38:13.399
<v Speaker 2>show online at tiny dot cc slash call tw