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Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Kylie Cast. I'm Kylie Griswold,

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Managing editor at The Federalist. Please like and subscribe wherever

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you get your podcasts. We have a channel that's specifically

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for the Kylie Cast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. So

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if you are only subscribed to The Federalist Radio Hour,

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or you're wrong with Molly Hemingway and David Harsani, two

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of our other wonderful Federalist podcasts, be sure to subscribe

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to the Kylie Cast as well so you never miss

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an episode. Leave us a five star review is one

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of the easiest and best ways you can help out

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the show, and even better yet, if you are just

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listening to the show, go check out the full video

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version on my personal YouTube channel or the Federalists channel

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on Rumble, and then of course like and subscribe there too.

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If you'd like to email the show, you can do

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so at radio at the Federalist dot com. I would

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love to hear from you today. I am so pleased

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to welcome to the show. Chloe Cole. Chloe is a

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beautiful young woman. She is a d transitioner and an advocate.

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Chloe and I dive into her personal story as well

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as some of the biggest headlines of the day that

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have to do with the transgender craze and de transitioners,

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and we offer a reason why you conservative listeners and

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de transitioners should be hopeful about what the future holds

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on this issue. It's a conversation you won't want to miss.

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So without further ado, please welcome to the show, Chloe Cole. Chloe,

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thank you so much for joining me on the Kyli

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Gast today. It's so great to have you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. I've been wanting to chat with you

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about your story for a long time. So today is

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the day. Why don't we I mean, we've got a

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lot of news items to get into today, but why

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don't we just start at the very beginning. For any

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listeners or viewers who maybe aren't familiar with where you

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come from or what your story is, can you just

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rewind kind of back to your childhood. Where are you from,

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what was your upbringing like, and how did you get

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to be the activists that you are today.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so, I am an advocate for the protection of

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children and parental rights from medical transgenderism, as well as

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a detransitioner who personally has gone through the process of

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a medical and social gender transition between the ages of

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twelve to sixteen. So before all of this started, before

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I was wrapped up in the transgender world, I was

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growing up as a pretty ordinary young girl. In a

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lot of ways, I was a bit of a tomboy,

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but I also I had influence from both sexes, from

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my older sisters to my older brothers, and I was

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pretty squarely in the middle and all round her. And

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the older I got, the more that I just felt

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like I related a lot more to my older brothers

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and to my male peers, and like they were the

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ones who were always talking about the things that really mattered,

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and I shared a sense of humor with them, I

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shared interests. But none of this was something that I

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really cared about, And in fact, I actually loved these

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things about myself and saw them as just another thing

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that made me different, made me unique, and there was

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nothing wrong with that until around the time that I

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started to hit puberty. I was going to middle school,

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and so around that time there's just a lot of confusion,

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I think for every kid, as you're kind of grappling

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with the fact that you're starting to grow up for

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real and you're eventually going to not just be a

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boy or a girl. You're either going to be a

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man or a woman. And there's a huge responsibility that

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comes with that. And there's all these awkward changes happening

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in your own body and your own life and your

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emotions and in dealing with people around you as well.

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And I had an especially rough time with that as

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I had to move schools and I was sitting puberty

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a little bit earlier than a lot of my other peers,

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so there was a lot of attention that I was

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getting much earlier than the other kids. And it was

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very deeply uncomfortable the way that other people would talk

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about my developing body like I was an adult or

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like an adult model, rather than like a child or

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just a human being right in front of them. And

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I also I never really fit in the mold for

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different reasons. I was always on the creative side on

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top of being a tomboy, and it just got more

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and more difficult for me to relate to other girls,

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to the point that I would sometimes even look in

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the mirror and think, am I ever going to be

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pretty enough? Like, I don't like makeup, I don't like dresses,

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I don't like purses, And the things that I would

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often hear about about womanhood were so negative. It was

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always about the curses that come with it, things like periods,

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the pain of pregnancy, rather than the blessings that come

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as a result of that pain. And so I just

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had this impression that it was all going to be bad,

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that it was all going to be painful, and that

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there was nothing really in it for me, especially as

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a woman who, especially as a girl, didn't feel particularly

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feminine at the time. But I didn't really have this

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idea in my head that I was actually a boy

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until I started using social media around the age of twelve,

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and that was where I first learned about transgenderism and

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about both the medical aspects of it, and I started

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getting radicalized into the ideological as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so did you find I mean, was the stuff

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you were seeing on the Internet? Was that like the

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dark corners of Tumblr? Or was this just like mainstream

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stuff from you know, your generic Instagram algorithm or your

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friends on Facebook? Like where was it coming from?

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Speaker 2: So? I did use Tumblr a little bit, but I

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was mostly there's at the time. There's a bit of

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an overlap between Tumbler and different platforms like Twitter and

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especially Instagram. There were a lot of it didn't start

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with me using Tumblr, it I mean, that was when

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I first started to learn a little bit about like

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these ideas from like queer theory and stuff. I never

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really personally made a connection to it until I started

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using Instagram. And at first I was just like seeing

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what like my friends were seeing from school, right, it

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was like memes. It was stuff about like just normal

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everyday twelve year old interests. Until eventually, I mean I'd

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always been a little bit on the nerdier side, so

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I started to venture a little bit more into like

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the fan bases around like my favorite bands, my favorite

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cartoons and stuff, and in these communities. And this is

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still the case today, if not even worse. But there

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was like this ideological undertone to a lot of it,

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where a lot of these kids my age, it wasn't

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celebrities who I was following. It was kids who were

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talking about like these these same interests, and they also

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would talk a little bit about their own personal lives

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and their beliefs, And that's where I started to learn

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a lot about like different different aspects of leftist politics

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from Some of these kids were like full blown socialists.

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I mean, at least they would say they were. They were,

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they were young enough that they probably didn't really fully

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understand just what they were talking about. But also a

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lot of them were going a little bit more into

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identity politics as well, like feminism and and talking about

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either identifying as like being gay, or these different like

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gender identities like non binary, pangender. It was really it

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was just really interesting to me at the time because

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it was very stimulating in a way that I think

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a lot of a lot of young people could. I

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think it for for a lot of young people who

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already are like kind of on the outside of the

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mold and they're looking for a sense of identity, it

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can give them something that they can relate to in

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a way. And that certainly was the case for me.

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But it was just so like learning about like all

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these different flags, different words, and just these people's personal

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experiences was something that at first drew my curiosity, and

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then after a little bit I wondered why I was

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so curious about it, and then that curiosity led to

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questioning of myself and going through these different names, these

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different terms, before I finally settled on thinking, Okay, I

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have never felt comfortable with my developing breasts or the

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things that people would say about it. I don't even

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feel like I'm pretty or feminine enough to fit in

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with other women. I think that I'm just a flat

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out young man, and that's why I've never felt like myself.

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I thought that was it. I thought that I finally

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found the answer and that I was never going to

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feel alone again. I was never going to feel like

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I wasn't myself ever again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so for you, it really was that you thought

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you were a boy and not a girl. It wasn't

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just a discomfort with with all things feminine, It was

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you genuinely were wondering, am I in the wrong body?

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Am I? Am I hearing you right? Because I did

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have a conversation a similar conversation with Walt Higher about

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his transition, and obviously you're talking about huge generational difference there,

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but he was more just trying to escape who he was.

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He didn't necessarily think he was a woman. It was

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just like I need a new identity because I can't

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be Walt anymore. But for you, like, are you saying

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that you are, like, maybe I am actually a man.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was a little bit of wanting to

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escape the shame of my life up until that point,

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just like being like an awkward girl who had a

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hard time adjusting and wanting to be somebody new. But

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I also was really, I genuinely believed this idea that

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there was something wrong with me that was making me

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feel unsettled with myself, and that it was it became

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from the fact that I actually, on some level was

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a man rather than a woman who just so happened

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to be born in the wrong body.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And were these messages that you were also getting

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from school in like an institutionalized way, I mean, were

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they just coming from your peers via social media or

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I know you were in California, which I'm sure was

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even further left to like where a lot of these

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other young people who are struggling with some of these

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identity issues come from. Were these ideas and these curiosities

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reinforced from in the classroom, like from your teachers and counselors,

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or was it not really an issue when you were

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going through it as much so?

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Speaker 2: What I was learning on the internet then is what

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a lot of children are unfortunately learning in the classroom now,

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but at that point in time, it could be that

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my school was a little bit behind on the curriculum

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that they're giving out to a cross California now. But

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this is something that I never heard about in school,

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even after I ID transitioned and I and I graduated.

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I never heard about this in high school at all.

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But there was institutional pushing of this to me the

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moment that I started going to therapy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, I want to get into some of

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that next. So you start to have some of these

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thoughts that I maybe I am a boy you're curious about,

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you know, maybe changing up your identity or figuring out

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where you fit in. So where did you turn first?

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Did you immediately find a therapist? And was there any

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resistance or questioning of this along the way. I know

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a lot of stories from now detransitioners who kind of

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inserted themselves into the pipeline or worth kind of thrust

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into the pipeline, and there was just never a question

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of are there other underlying mental health issues? Is there

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something else that's unaddressed here, like childhood trauma or something

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Was there any of that in your experience or was

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it just kind of she thinks she's a boy. Here

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we go like, you know, que the p bockers and hormones.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the adults in the room other than

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my mom and dad did their job at all the

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way that they were supposed to. I think that any

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sane adult would see a young girl the way that

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I was and think, Okay, so she's confused about her identity,

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she doesn't like her body while she's at an age

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where children and especially girls tend not to. But maybe

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there's something deeper behind the scenes that we're not seeing,

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so we're going to start asking her questions. No, they

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didn't do that at all. There was none of that.

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It was just they were so they were going pretty

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much completely by protocol, right, which that means to not

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question at all, to go along with whatever the child

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wants and allow that to guide the course of treatment,

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rather than being the adult in the room and being

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the guidance and really using common sense. My mom and

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dad when I first told them about this confus usion

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around my sex were I mean, they were on it.

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They wanted to. Their first instinct was to start researching

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because they didn't know anything about this. They never had

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to deal with this with any of my older brothers

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or sisters, so it was very new to them. But

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everything was pointing them in the direction of either affirmation

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or getting me clinical treatment as soon as possible. When

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their assumption of what treatment meant was psychiatric psychiatric intervention

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that would hopefully get behind all this and also teach

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me how to cope with these feelings in an age

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appropriate manner that wouldn't push me into any permanent decisions

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that could potentially get me hurt. But the doctors had

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the very opposite idea in mind as soon as they

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came to them, and they were told that My mom

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and dad were told by these doctors and pretty much

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every single one who was involved, that this was very serious,

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that we had to address this now, that nothing could wait,

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and in doing so, it could get me seriously hurt,

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because I might take my own life from being forced

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to go through puberty and develop secondary sex characteristics and

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look more like a woman as I got older and

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feel more and more detached from my supposed true identity

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as a young man who I claim to be, and

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my mom and dad never believed I was transgender or

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a boy. But they just kept having this idea drilled

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into their head that I was going to die without this,

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And no parent wants to hear that, especially from a clinician.

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I don't want to. I don't blame my mom and

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dad for saying yes, because they had no other options

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given they were not told about any alternatives, and these

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were the people who they entrusted to help take care

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of me, telling them that I in order to live,

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I was going to have outdo this.

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Speaker 3: CNBC needs to start being honest with themselves. The Watch

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Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day

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Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy

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and how it affects your wallet. CNBC's calls are not

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just wrong, they're really wrong. The fast money circus on CNB.

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The fast money circus on CNBC has gone too far.

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Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street,

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00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:31,360
it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watch

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dot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify,

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or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: These are people, after all, who took an oath to

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do no harm and who are supposed to be you know,

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the the arbiters of science and research, and they're supposed

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to know what is the correct course of action and

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then prescribe that. And that emotional blackmail component of that

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is so strong, and that is such a it's such

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a big part of the Fox Varian case we're going

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to talk about here in just a minute, just this

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idea that would you rather have a live son or

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a dead daughter, or vice versa, And that the power

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of that question from medical professionals to parents who feel

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vulnerable and scared is cannot be understated. And it's so common,

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and you know, especially especially before, like when you were

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dealing with this, I mean, we know a lot more

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now because conservative media and others and other activists like

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you have done a great job of bringing research to

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light that shows, you know, actually, suicide rates for people

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who do go through with medical interventions and transgender surgeries

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is as high, if not higher than, uh than for

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people who are denied these these things or do not

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do not follow through with so called wrongly termed gender

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affirming care. But parents, I mean, it's their primary job

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to protect their children. And so when you have a

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doctor who has taken an to do no harm, confront

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you with, well, your child is going to kill themselves

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if you do not do X, Y and Z. That's

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emotional blackmail, and that is strong, and that has a

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lot of power. And so yeah, I don't even know

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how as a parent, especially before you know in the past,

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I can't imagine having to withstand that kind of pressure.

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That's just a lot.

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Speaker 2: And so before everyone to know what my mom and

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dad went through.

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Speaker 1: No, no, at any step of the process. I mean,

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I really can't imagine. Can't imagine before we get into

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the Fox Varian case, because I really want to dive

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into that. It's it's really groundbreaking and exciting stuff. I

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do just want to touch on another thing you said

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in your first answer, So we're rewinding a little bit here,

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But I do think it's such a challenge for conservatives

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to do much better messaging around womanhood and how beautiful

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and awesome it is. And you know, I know, as

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you're going through the throes of puberty, it might not

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be convincing to you, but it is so damaging Even

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among many conservatives, there's still this undercurrent of feminism that

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motherhood is a burden, that marriage is unfair to women,

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that you know, there's just so many toxic messages, and

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we have an opportunity here, you know, to tell young

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women like, yeah, puberty is rough, like having your first

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period and adjusting to all of that, that that can

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be a really tough time, but shepherding them through that

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with positive messaging about how awesome it is to be

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a woman. I mean, I don't know all the ways

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we can do it better, but I know we can

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do it better because marriage and motherhood and femininity are incredible.

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And I would never want to discourage young women who

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are already feeling the pressure of my body is changing

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and this is uncomfortable and I'm getting unwanted attention with

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it's not going to get better. Because it does, it

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gets a lot better, and it's it's great. I love it.

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I wouldn't trade it for anything.

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Speaker 2: So it's something that I hope to know myself one day.

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I mean, the single biggest thing that broke me out

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of the ideology was learning that one day I would

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want to become a mother and that would conflict with

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not just this lifestyle, but also the fact that by

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doing is so young, I could be sterilized. And learning

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a little bit about breastfitting as well, and realizing I'm

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going to miss out on this very beautiful part of

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God's design for me and so are my children. And

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it was the regret of that, it was the grief

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and also knowing that there was a way forward, that

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really that was the final straw, and it gave me

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the courage to finally get back out of this lifestyle.

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And you're absolutely right that I think conservatives could do

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a much better job at messaging in generally young women.

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And we can see we can see that clearly in

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the political divide in my generation between the sexes, Like

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so many young women are falling into increasingly radical leptism,

359
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while young men have always been pretty pretty fairly conservative.

360
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That is something that I don't think has really changed

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over the years. But we have to ask ourselves why

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is there that divide? I don't know, I don't I

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really don't think that there's one straight answer. But having

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spent some time in the conservative space for about four years,

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I would say and I would say that conservatives, especially commentators,

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tend to seem to either be between one of two extremes.

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It's either like hyper feminism, like focusing on yourself yourself yourself,

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your career, your career, your career before you decide to

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get married or it's women's worth comes to HOWND pretty

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much entirely to their to being a wife and to

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being able to have kids, which I mean, I think

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that both of those things are very important. I think

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that there's this naive idea that before the Industrial Revolution,

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women were just like never pretty much anywhere except for

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the home. No, like, we've always been working, we've always

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been contributing to the economy to some degree. But I

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think that there is a middle ground that we can

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establish that, yes, our an important part of identity for

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many women is going to come from womanhood, from motherhood,

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from being a wife, and I think a lot of

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women should focus on doing that sooner than later, because

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obviously we have a very narrow amount of time. We

383
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have a biological clock that men really don't have, and

384
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so it's kind of an imperative for those of us

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who really want to do it to try and get

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married and build a family as soon as possible. But

387
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I think that that's also something that we can balance

388
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with having a career and having an education as well.

389
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I think it was trying to navigate this confusing messaging

390
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as a kid. That just made me want to opt

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out of being a woman entirely. Like seeing some people

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say like, oh, like most of your work is going

393
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to come from whether you're fertile, whether you're mother, whether

394
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you're a wife, and other people saying like, oh, it's

395
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just focus on having a having a career and not

396
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not focus on anybody but yourself or or or not

397
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focused on having a family.

398
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well I just love that how strong that

399
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,279
poll was, and that the reason you know, this straw

400
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,000
that broke the camel's back in your regret story had

401
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,319
to do with with these innately feminine woman things and

402
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just you know, when we talk about biology and we

403
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,920
talk about the sexes, it does come down to chromosomes

404
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,160
and genitalia, sure, but it's so much more than that.

405
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:46,559
Like we've been designed with biological urges and biological realities

406
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and this innate desire to mother and to nurture and

407
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to create life and to sustain life. And you know

408
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,599
a lot of women now there's a lot of misplaced

409
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mothering where we're seeing that kind of driving people toward

410
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,680
you know, toxic empathy or like misplaced activism instead of

411
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nurturing and creating another generation. But it's just you know,

412
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those feelings that you had where you're like, wow, I

413
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can't I can't imagine you know, not having the option

414
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to breastfeed, or like, you know, just just coming to

415
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terms with this regret. It's like, yeah, because because our

416
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biology is not just reduced to our chromosomes, although it

417
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,519
is that, but there's so much more to it than that.

418
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Just we've been designed with these awesome capabilities to create

419
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and sustain and nurture life. And you know, there was

420
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the whole feminism era of I think it was Sheryl

421
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Sandberg or whoever, whoever did the whole lean in messaging

422
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,960
to your career and how damaging that was to women. Again,

423
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not to say that women can't or shouldn't have careers

424
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and that there's no place for women in work, because

425
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because of course there is and there can be, but

426
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just kind of taking that messaging and turning it the

427
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:57,559
other way and saying, no, lean in to the things

428
00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:00,400
that make you feminine and that make you different from men,

429
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because those are actually the things that are empowering because

430
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:05,799
we're not we're not men, We're not just you know,

431
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,160
cogs in a corporate machine, like, we have so much

432
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,400
more to offer, and so many of those things are

433
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:15,880
found in these innately biological urges and instincts that we

434
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,039
have as women. And you know, which is why deferring

435
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,799
marriage and motherhood for the sake of a career or

436
00:24:22,079 --> 00:24:24,480
you know, freeze, just freeze your eggs, or just experiment

437
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,759
with you know, these transgender things like whatever you want

438
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:29,319
to do. It's like, no, we do. We do have

439
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,400
a biological clock, and we do have these urges for

440
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,440
a reason, and like lean into that. Don't lean into

441
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,000
the feminist messaging of uh, you know, just be a

442
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,759
corporate cog who who finds your fulfillment and clocking in

443
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:41,400
from your nine to five or or whatever it is.

444
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,720
There's it's so much bigger than.

445
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Speaker 2: That, right. I feel like feminism and the sexual revolution

446
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,039
have made it so that we're so far removed from

447
00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:54,119
our own biology and the real meaning of things like

448
00:24:54,279 --> 00:24:58,319
sex and our are the reason why are our bodies

449
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,599
and even our psychology is organ as a way that

450
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,519
it is. Both men and women are designed around their

451
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:10,119
roles in reproduction and in women were very very painstakingly

452
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,880
designed around either either raising children or just taking upon

453
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,799
a maternal role in general, and not only has embracing

454
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the fact that my body has been designed around that,

455
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that creation of new life, but also the fact that

456
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,559
socially I'm supposed to be amongst other women, I'm supposed

457
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:33,559
to be in some way nurturing the next generation has

458
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:37,200
I think brought a great deal of development and purpose

459
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,799
into my life, even as somebody who isn't even a

460
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mother or wife yet.

461
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so awesome, and it's such a message to

462
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,440
people too who who desire that but haven't found that yet,

463
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because you're no less a woman before you are married

464
00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:51,839
or have children, and there's still a role, there's still

465
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,240
a feminine role for you in your community and in

466
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,119
your family and in society, and it's really very important

467
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,000
that you lean into that.

468
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Speaker 2: And I think that role right, and I think that

469
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:04,559
it can be a little bit more difficult for women

470
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:08,279
who naturally are a little bit more masculinely leaning, or

471
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:12,200
they don't really fit into the mold and they're different

472
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,440
in some way. But it's also important to find that

473
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,920
balance and be able to be able to find like

474
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:24,079
female community around you, to discover like which women are

475
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,920
really your friends and keep them close especially when it's

476
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,799
women who are within your own family when possible, whether

477
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:33,519
it be your mother, a grandmother, and aunt of a sister,

478
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,079
a cousin.

479
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so important to learn from the other women

480
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,240
in our lives to help develop and foster our own

481
00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:43,440
our own sense of femininity. And yeah, you're so right,

482
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:47,400
and part of the diversity of female personalities, just like

483
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,160
there's diverse male personalities. You know, is another that's a

484
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,240
good thing. That's not a bad thing. It's not a negative.

485
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:56,920
If you have more of a leadership personality, or you know,

486
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,279
if you prefer to work more in the background or whatever, like,

487
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:02,519
those are those are those can be strengths, especially like

488
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:05,200
within the church or whatever. Those are not liabilities. Those

489
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,759
are actually really good things. And we, to our peril,

490
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,359
we believe the lie that that makes us a man,

491
00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:15,279
or that you know, that it's something to be to

492
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,119
be squelched and squandered rather than used for for good

493
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,119
purposes and good ends. So let's pivot to the fox

494
00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:27,160
very in case, because this was a huge piece of

495
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,319
news that came out in the past couple of weeks here,

496
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,799
So Chloe, why don't you just give us a quick

497
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,759
rundown of what happened in this lawsuit, because I'm sure

498
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:39,160
it's very exciting for you, and there are so many

499
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,680
classic trans components that are present here, and so it's

500
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,720
just it's really just an awesome, awesome win for detransitioners specifically,

501
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,920
and for people who just care about biology and who

502
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,880
care about children, and who care about preserving the dignity

503
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,680
of bodies and minds that are struggling with these things.

504
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,200
So if you can just break down the case for us,

505
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,240
that would be great.

506
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: So this case is incredible for so many different reasons.

507
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,799
And I actually I didn't know nobody wrote the public,

508
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,960
didn't actually know that this case was going on until

509
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:14,039
she had her win just a few weeks ago. And

510
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,440
so she had a very similar experience to me. She

511
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:21,079
was a child when her doctors in New Europe started

512
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,519
experimenting on her, started telling her the lie that she

513
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,400
was a male, and then telling her her mother that

514
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,440
the only way that she could survive into adulthood was

515
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:37,880
by going down this process. So the case was primarily

516
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,319
focused on harm caused by the double mostectomy that she

517
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:45,039
was given out just sixteen years old, as well as

518
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:48,079
a psychological harm to her mother by being told that

519
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:50,440
it was life or it was either death or transition,

520
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,960
and a lack of informed consent by a mission as

521
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,400
well as emotional manipulation, and she ended up having the

522
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:03,960
very first win for a de transitioner lawsuit in New York,

523
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,319
of all places, in a very one of the most

524
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,519
I think one of the most liberal counties in the

525
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:14,079
US actually, which is a complete miracle. She won about

526
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:18,119
two million dollars, which I frankly, for the damage, the

527
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:22,240
lifelong damage that comes from going through this process and

528
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:25,799
the irreversibility of it, that is not nearly enough. No

529
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:29,240
amount of money ever would be enough. But I think

530
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:32,400
it bodes very well for the d transitioner movement, for

531
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:36,160
the future of the law going forward on these cases,

532
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:39,680
and I think that it's going to encourage a lot

533
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:42,559
more de transitioners and people who have been harmed to

534
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,720
not to speak out, but also to try to see

535
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,680
justice for themselves in the court system, which has been

536
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,559
such a difficult battle over the years I've had. I

537
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,759
sued my own doctors when I was eighteen years old,

538
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:59,440
and it's been about almost it's been almost four years,

539
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,599
and the case has just been moving so slowly because

540
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,440
my own doctors have been trying to do everything, has

541
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,799
been doing everything they can to try and get my

542
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,400
case thrown out or get into a binding arbitration. And

543
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:14,920
there have just been so many cases over the years

544
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,880
that have been thrown out completely and failed because there's

545
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:25,799
really no precedent on this issue for even the most

546
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:29,200
skilled of lawyers to be able to advocate for their

547
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:33,799
for de transitioners. But now this gives us a very

548
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:41,400
clear cutcase of harm being taken accountability for. And it's

549
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,880
for that For that reason, I see a lot more

550
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,039
success in legal avenue moving forward, and this is going

551
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:51,160
to be one of the biggest things that's going to

552
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,039
take down the industry.

553
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,519
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, absolutely, it's it's so exciting. It really

554
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,319
energizes me to think about what's possible now because of this.

555
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,759
So I I mean, I know there are a lot

556
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:08,319
of similarities between your specific detransitioner experience and hers, and

557
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,119
also so many other classic trans components here. I mean,

558
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:14,640
reading through her case, it's like she had childhood trauma

559
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,759
via divorce and custody battles, plus other underlying mental health issues.

560
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,119
She was a miner who was pushed into irreversible surgeries

561
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:27,519
her parents were also emotionally blackmailed with do you want

562
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:29,640
a live son or a dead daughter? Like all of

563
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,279
these things and then having deep regret like this is

564
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:40,079
a very classic collection of components here that you really

565
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:43,480
see in so many of these cases. And so that's

566
00:31:43,519 --> 00:31:45,880
a cool aspect of it because it's so relatable and

567
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,720
so similar to these other cases. But I'm curious with

568
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:52,480
your lawsuit and this lawsuit, what is the same about

569
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:56,480
the legal approach and what is different? And should this

570
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,920
change the way that lawyers of d transits. Should it

571
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:05,839
change the way they go about advocating for their clients legally.

572
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,839
Speaker 2: So I think that some of the biggest the biggest

573
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:15,200
differences in our cases were that she I think her

574
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,000
lawyers were alleging that the standard of care specifically around

575
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:25,160
transitioning was violated in her case, and it was focused

576
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:31,480
on the mistectomy rather than the the social transition and

577
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:34,759
the the other procedures that she had. I'm actually I'm

578
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:41,039
not too sure as to whether she's had hormones or

579
00:32:41,079 --> 00:32:44,839
puberty blockers before that or what age that happened. But

580
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,400
my case is a lot more comprehensive. It's focused on

581
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,720
the standards of care of medicine in general being violated,

582
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,079
especially the tenet of medicine to do to do no

583
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,359
harm and damage for damage from all of all of

584
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,799
the procedures that I that I went through, as well

585
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:08,799
as as fraud, because I firmly believe that the entire

586
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:12,759
basis of this treatment is completely fraudulent. It's not only

587
00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:15,880
a violation of the tenets of medicine itself, it's a

588
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:22,400
complete lie on its face because nobody, no nobody can

589
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,200
change sex. It is something that is immutable. No amount

590
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,240
of surgeries, no amount of no amount of drugs will

591
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:31,200
ever change this simple fact of life that you will

592
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,359
either always male or female. M And I think that

593
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:38,680
if we really want to take down this industry, we

594
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:40,519
have to be we have to attack it on all fronts,

595
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,880
and we have to call out every single fault for

596
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,319
what it is.

597
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,559
Speaker 1: So what's the status of your lawsuit now? And do

598
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:52,000
you think that this outcome changes your lawsuit or you know,

599
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:54,839
will change what approach you take or anything like that,

600
00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:57,559
or you just kind of still waiting to see where

601
00:33:57,559 --> 00:33:58,079
it ends up.

602
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:02,079
Speaker 2: So I am actually set to go to courts, which

603
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,720
I am very excited about because it's been years of

604
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:09,760
just constant like battles back and forth of Kaiser trying

605
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,079
to appeal my case, trying to get it thrown out,

606
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:17,000
trying to get us into arbitration. But I want to

607
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:21,199
go to court. I want Kaiser to be exposed for

608
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,039
everything that they have done, for all of the abuses

609
00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:26,800
that they are doing under the name of gender affirming care.

610
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:33,440
And I think that with this recent win, it is

611
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,480
looking like I'm my case and these other cases are

612
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:39,679
going to be going to be set up for success

613
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,320
moving forward.

614
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,159
Speaker 1: Awesome. Glenn Stanton wrote a piece for us at the

615
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,719
Federalist just to put this kind of all in perspective

616
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,920
and all in context. He wrote that Benjamin Ryan, who's

617
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,320
an independent reporter, has documented that there are twenty seven

618
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,360
other detransition or lawsuits that have been filed to date,

619
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,920
and this was I mean, potentially more have been filed

620
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,559
now since then, because with this victory, you know, maybe

621
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:07,400
people are filing more. But you're talking about dozens of

622
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,960
cases that are already in the works, filed by d

623
00:35:11,079 --> 00:35:14,440
transitioners and their lawyers. But then you also have the

624
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,039
Manhattan Institute research between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty three.

625
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:25,280
They found a conservative minimum of five thousand, two hundred

626
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:29,519
US teen girls that had their breasts amputated, thinking that

627
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:33,400
that would be a solution to their transgender, you know, gender,

628
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,920
their transgender delusion. There's belief that they were that they

629
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,000
were men. That's a very conservative estimate. So you're talking

630
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:45,960
you only have a couple dozen cases. Currently, you have

631
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,599
thousands of people who have been harmed by this, and

632
00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:53,000
we know the rates of de transition are fairly high,

633
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,679
especially you know, because so much of the research follows

634
00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:58,079
these cases for only a brief period of time. Well

635
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,239
down the road, trans regret is pretty strong, and so

636
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,599
I mean, we might see hundreds, if not thousands more cases.

637
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:09,199
And so this just is crazy to have this outcome,

638
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:13,000
and it clearly is striking the fear into the medical

639
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:17,719
establishment because now we have seen multiple medical groups come

640
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,199
out and quickly days later, days after this verdict, they backtracked.

641
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,039
So you had the American Society of Plastic Surgeons and

642
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:28,360
the American Medical Association both came out just days later

643
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,360
with statements basically saying that they recommend delaying so called

644
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,559
gender affirming care until adulthood. And that's a huge reversal.

645
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,639
That's a huge change from previous statements from them, and

646
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:44,800
you know what the wpath like general quote unquote medical

647
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,239
community has been saying about these things for years. That

648
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,199
was a pretty fast turnaround. So that inspires a lot

649
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,519
of confidence in the direction that we're headed here, and

650
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:54,840
I assume you feel the same.

651
00:36:54,679 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: Way absolutely With how quickly those organizations and now that

652
00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,400
change and recommendations, it makes me wonder if it might

653
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,000
have been in response to that case or just to

654
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,039
the cultural change in general I think has been a

655
00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:11,960
big part of that. It's really disappointing it's taken this long,

656
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:15,400
considering that this movement that I'm a part of, pretty

657
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,199
much everybody on an individual level who is publicly facing

658
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,360
and speaking out about this has received incredible backlash for

659
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,800
doing so, some of us even being threatened with death,

660
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,519
with violence, even being assaulted at events or while we're

661
00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:33,880
out and about, just for the sole fact that we're

662
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,000
speaking to the truth and we're challenging this ideology and

663
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:41,159
this industry head on. But the thing that's been frustrating

664
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:45,679
for years was hearing, oh, well, all these major organizations,

665
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,039
these major medical organizations, they don't back what you're saying.

666
00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:52,159
So there's no it's been very difficult to get any

667
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:58,920
institutional backing on our on our concerns and about while

668
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,159
talking about the harms of this, even as people who

669
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:06,480
have either directly been harmed by this, the transitioners or

670
00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:08,599
the clinicians who have had to see this in their practice,

671
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,400
or parents and families who have experienced this with their

672
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,159
own kids. But to finally have an organization saying this,

673
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,119
at least even just the surgeries need to stop in

674
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:23,679
children under the age of nineteen, and hopefully they'll continue,

675
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:27,559
they'll continue pushing for older and older with the drugs

676
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:27,960
as well.

677
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,199
Speaker 1: Yes, because as you said, it's not really enough. It's

678
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,719
a great start, but it's not enough of an admission because,

679
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,119
like your case demonstrates, you cannot change your sex. So

680
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:40,840
this is not a question of are we doing it

681
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,760
to miners or are we doing it to adults. Either way,

682
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,559
it's a fraud because you're completely correct like that. You

683
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:48,719
actually can't change that, So it's junk science. It's completely fake.

684
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,400
And you know these organizations should be changing these these

685
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,199
position statements across the board, not just for miners. But

686
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,599
it's still clearly a step in the right direction. It's

687
00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:03,599
also crazy because you know, this stuff is really an

688
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:07,320
eighty twenty issue, you know, like transing kids is not

689
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,800
what the majority of Americans want. You know, most people

690
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,360
are not actually on board with that type of radical

691
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,239
quote unquote medicine. But of course that wasn't going to

692
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,199
change the medical tide because all of the financial incentives

693
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,079
before somebody's gonna win a case are all still they

694
00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:27,800
still stack up behind sending kids down this pipeline because

695
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,920
it's a cash cow. If you can uh set up

696
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,280
a kid with puberty blockers and then wrong sex hormones

697
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,719
and then surgeries and then you know, follow up maintenance surgeries,

698
00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:40,880
you have created a patient for life, and you will

699
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,639
continue to get paid tons of money from both them

700
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,440
and insurance companies forever. There's no end to that because

701
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,079
then even if they later detransition, that's more money in

702
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:55,280
your pocket from those surgeries. So it just it never stops.

703
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:58,599
And so even if the majority of the country is like, yeah,

704
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,280
that's junk science, they don't care because if they're not

705
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,920
getting successful lawsuits that where they have to pay out,

706
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,840
it is a cash cow. And so it's so cool

707
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,039
to see the financial incentives potentially finally matching up with

708
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:16,519
these social incentives because the country is on a different

709
00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:18,920
path than the medical establishment, and maybe we can we

710
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,840
can bring those a little closer together here with lawsuits

711
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,199
like this.

712
00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: One, right, I mean, there are some physicians, some surgeons

713
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,000
whose careers even rely on this industry, so there's an

714
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,840
incentive to to keep moving, keep moving forward with it.

715
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:38,280
But beyond money, which of course is one of the

716
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,119
single biggest drivers here of this practice, there's also the

717
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:47,320
ideological component of this. This is how I mean the

718
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,079
entire medical profession right now. Even doctors who are not

719
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,039
directly engaging with transgender patients or with administering them as

720
00:40:55,079 --> 00:40:58,039
the hormones or surgeries, are referring them out. They're trained

721
00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:02,719
to affirm patients and to basically just give into whatever

722
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:08,079
their patient identify as and whatever they want. And a

723
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:11,159
lot of these, these these doctors, these people within the

724
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:15,079
medical profession are so far removed from the rest of

725
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,480
our culture. They're just doing that and day with patients

726
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,239
and with the medical industry and whether being told within it,

727
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:24,079
and they might not even realize that they're within ideological

728
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:25,960
bubble that they're operating, yeap.

729
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: And we've seen this with so many other things besides

730
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:33,239
transgender quote unquote medicine. We saw it with COVID clearly,

731
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,519
where things were being pushed that were completely out of

732
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:38,199
step with where the scientific evidence was leading. We've seen

733
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,719
it with commitments to quote unquote equity and healthcare, where

734
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,000
we give people treatment based on the color of their

735
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,239
skin instead of their actual need or their condition. We

736
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,960
see it with when you get asked for your pronouns

737
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,800
on hospital paperwork, and it's like, is this an establishment

738
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,159
of science or is this an establishment of politics? Because

739
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,360
I'm a little bit confused here because I am biologically

740
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,760
a woman, So why are you asking me about my

741
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,920
pronouns on my hospital intake forms? That does not inspire

742
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,840
confidence about how your commitment to science. Yes, yes, I

743
00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:12,800
didn't go to.

744
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: The doctor for almost five years because of there was

745
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,599
an element of trauma in experiencing what I did, and

746
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:28,800
just an overall distrust of the medical profession. And unfortunately

747
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,679
it wasn't entirely misplaced or irrational. I had this fear

748
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,360
of being heard again, and obviously what happened to me

749
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,679
was not going to ever happen again, and I would

750
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,960
make absolute sure of that, But I just there's no

751
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,519
I've seen just how science has been thrown completely out

752
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:51,679
of the medical profession, and how I've been treated after

753
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,400
the fact, even after like trying desperately to get my

754
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,719
doctors to be on the same page as me, even

755
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,199
in just like getting my records chain back to female

756
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,519
and my sex marker my name changed back. I still

757
00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:07,320
get letters to this day and I have to laugh

758
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,679
because it's so hilariously ridiculous referring to me as mister

759
00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:19,840
as Leo, as a man, and I the first appointment

760
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,039
I had with a doctor, every single pretty much every

761
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:24,559
single fear I had was confirmed. I was first. The

762
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:27,119
very first question I was asked was about my pronouns,

763
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:29,719
about my gender identity, and then once I gave a

764
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,320
little bit of my history because I was seeing a

765
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,159
new doctor, his first response was to try and refer

766
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,320
me to a gender clinic, even though I was desperately

767
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,320
telling him, no, no, no, I do not want to

768
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,519
go back. Please stop asking me these questions. I do

769
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:44,559
not I just want to get checkups and be treated

770
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,280
for the issues that this has caused me.

771
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,159
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, he tried to re refer you to

772
00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:51,559
a gender clinic after your detransition.

773
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:57,559
Speaker 4: Yes, that is crazy, and well, I in a way,

774
00:43:57,639 --> 00:44:00,599
I can't blame him, because there is no way acknowledgement

775
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,239
of detransition in the medical system.

776
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 2: There's no the word d transition isn't even written any

777
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,320
standards anywhere, and there just is no there's no system

778
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,880
that doctors can can help us with. There's no standards,

779
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,039
there's no billing codes. So they're kind of at a

780
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:18,360
loss of what you actually do when they're dealing with

781
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,400
a patient who either regrets this or has been harmed

782
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,039
by it, and how to deal with those complications.

783
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: Which just goes to show that the term sex or

784
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,559
gender transgender experimentation is the correct way to refer to

785
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:33,159
these things because it's all experiments. Like you know, we

786
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:35,239
can hear that these are reversible or whatnot, but they

787
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,320
don't have a plan to reverse it. You know, this

788
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,199
is not this is not within their medical lexicon, you know,

789
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,320
as you said about detransition, like, this is not this

790
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,480
is not something that they ever plan to reverse or

791
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,360
that they ever see reversed, you know, as far as

792
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,920
they're concerned in the medical literature and such. So, yeah,

793
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:58,119
that's insane. Let's let's move on, because we could talk

794
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,000
about this all day, but I have a little bit

795
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:02,039
more that I want to get to here. So let's

796
00:45:02,119 --> 00:45:05,599
talk about the latest example of trans violence, because now

797
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:07,719
we have another trans story in the news, which is

798
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,360
the horrific shooting out of Canada at tumblr Ridge School.

799
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,679
In that case, we had a trans identifying shooter who

800
00:45:18,039 --> 00:45:21,199
killed eight other people and then himself, and of course

801
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,280
the media instantly refer to this person as female, using

802
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,400
she and her pronouns, and just straight up calling the

803
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,119
shooter female without any qualifier, without even using the euphemism

804
00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:39,800
trans woman. I mean literally just calling this male female.

805
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:45,519
Horrific situation, terribly sad. We've seen way too many instances

806
00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:47,119
of this now, and of course this is not in

807
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:49,679
the United States, but it's our next door neighbor. And

808
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:54,719
I just you see these horrible stories and it's enraging

809
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,119
and it's terribly sad, and it just leaves you feeling like,

810
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,760
what are we supposed to do about this? Because it

811
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,039
really does seem to be an epidemic of trans violence.

812
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,400
You know, we saw with the Covenant School shooting, that's

813
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,280
not the only instance. I mean, there's been a handful

814
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,039
since then. Here in the States. I'm curious you know,

815
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,559
aside from winning these lawsuits and just sort of turning

816
00:46:20,639 --> 00:46:23,639
the tide on the trans craze to go back the

817
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:28,679
other way, what else can we do about this because

818
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,119
grabbing guns is not going to fix the problem. Like

819
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:35,199
this is clearly an issue of the mind and a

820
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,360
spiritual issue, I would say, but also just based on

821
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,920
your own experience and what it was like living with

822
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,559
synthetic hormones in your body, Like, do you think there's

823
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:51,199
a role that synthetic hormones play in this beyond just

824
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,199
the mental health issues? Like, like, what do you think

825
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,159
about this whole thing?

826
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked, because I feel like that's a

827
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,679
very important part of the discussion that's often left out

828
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,639
even by the media and by the by officials who

829
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,440
are dealing with these cases. And there absolutely is a

830
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:10,079
huge uptick in the violence that is happening, that is

831
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:13,320
being perpetrated by people from within the transgender community in

832
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,079
different ways, but especially these mass shootings have been happening

833
00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:19,360
since I think it goes as far back as twenty nineteen.

834
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:22,800
But the very last thing that we should be doing

835
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,400
is obscuring details around these cases and lying to not

836
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,119
just these people's face about who they are, but to

837
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:33,280
the public about the reality other sets and the role

838
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,639
that this ideology and their mental health issues are playing

839
00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:42,599
in this. It's that ignorance of reality and avoiding the

840
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:49,199
truth that is actually arguably furthering the violence. It's obfuscating information,

841
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,800
It's making it difficult for those who are grieving in

842
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,199
those who want to know more and want to investigate.

843
00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:57,360
But it also is making it on an individual level,

844
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,000
very confusing for these individuals who already are very conf

845
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:03,360
used and they're trying to navigate their their lives and

846
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,760
not being given what they what they really need in

847
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:11,280
terms of of psychological treatments. But I mean, we don't know.

848
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:15,920
I I think I don't believe that the shooter was

849
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,800
on hormones. He made a post on on social media

850
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,639
about being on a wait list at some point for

851
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,800
hormones and not receiving them. But that information is something

852
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,760
that is That's one of the things that commonly is

853
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,320
obscured about these the these these cases, whether they or not,

854
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,480
what drugs these people are on, their their clinical the

855
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,920
clinical background of these of these shooters, and the the

856
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,320
how how far in they are into into transitioning. But

857
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,039
I feel like this, this wave of violence that we're

858
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:54,320
seeing unfold, is just one more reason on top of

859
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,599
the millions of other reasons that we need to stop

860
00:48:56,639 --> 00:49:00,880
pushing young people down this path, because it's not just

861
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,679
a danger to them individually and their bodies, it's now

862
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,480
potentially putting the public in danger by enabling their fantasies,

863
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,559
by enabling these psychotic and these narcissistic tendencies, rather than

864
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:16,039
actually helping them.

865
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, well I do think, I mean, I

866
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:23,119
don't know the answer to this, and like you said,

867
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,599
if we can't even get a straight answer from the

868
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:29,519
media on whether the sex of the shooter was male

869
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:32,079
or female, we're not going to get answers about their

870
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:34,760
medical records about whether they were on hormones. That's just

871
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,119
not going to happen. You know, we can, we can,

872
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,119
we can speculate based on whether they identify as trans

873
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:45,400
or whatnot, but but we won't know. And so, you know,

874
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,360
we can, we can look at all of the things

875
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,280
that are not going to work as solutions. But just

876
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,440
to turn this to a brighter note, I don't think

877
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,840
it's just a mental health crisis, although it is that,

878
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,039
I think it is also a spiritual crisis, and you

879
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:01,880
see so many things here where the transgender delusion is

880
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,519
a lie. It is a lie from the enemy. It

881
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:09,360
is a complete denial of the designed order of humanity.

882
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:13,760
It is turning biological truths, time tested truths about who

883
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,800
we were created to be on their head, and basically

884
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,199
also ultimately, I mean it goes back to the first

885
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,199
lie in the Garden of Eden about that you will

886
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,400
be like gods if you do this, And you know,

887
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,079
at the end of the day, transgender experimentation is trying

888
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:33,599
to be God. It's changing who you are. It's basically

889
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:36,280
believing that you as an individual can play God and

890
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,880
change your physical embodiment to be something else. And that

891
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:44,199
is all sad and scary stuff, but it's also met

892
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,159
with a beautiful, glorious truth, which is that there can

893
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:49,800
be redemption and there is actually a solution to this,

894
00:50:50,079 --> 00:50:53,599
and it is Christianity. It is christ There is freedom

895
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:57,400
that can be found in surrendering to the God who

896
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,800
made you, and you know, finding that there actually has

897
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:04,679
been There's a penalty, but there's also a price that

898
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:08,000
has been paid. And Christ died to save us from

899
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,760
ourselves and to save us from the lives of the

900
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,239
enemies and to save us from arson. And as I

901
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,559
was reading through your bio, I know that conversion to

902
00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:19,119
Christianity is a part of your story, and I love

903
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:22,559
that because it's arguably the most important part of your story,

904
00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:25,599
and so I want to find out from you how

905
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,960
exactly you became a Christian and then also how that

906
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:33,119
changed going to a Christian counselor or a Christian therapist,

907
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,519
and the kind of light and hope that was brought

908
00:51:35,639 --> 00:51:38,679
to you in that setting versus the clinical setting.

909
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you asking that because I also feel

910
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,800
like that is the most important part of not just

911
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,039
my testimony, but my life, and it's a blessing that

912
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,599
I want to spread with other young people as much

913
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:56,199
as I possibly can. What my own story has taught me.

914
00:51:57,119 --> 00:52:00,920
And also witnessing this wave of violence that's been happening

915
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,639
and just the the corruption of our institutions and the

916
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,119
uphill battle of dealing with that over the years, is

917
00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:12,920
that we live in a world that no longer values

918
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,280
the truth. That is what all this confusion is downstream of.

919
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,519
And it's not just biological truth, it's not just scientific

920
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,960
and easily observable truth. That we're dealing with that is

921
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:31,119
being ignored. It is the truth. I think that a

922
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:35,079
country that is not led by God, that is not

923
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:37,599
led by a belief in Christ, is going to come

924
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:42,679
further and further and further away from the value of

925
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:47,800
the truth. And we witness that happening with not just transgenderism,

926
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,639
but with all these ideologies infecting our government, infecting our institutions,

927
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:56,960
infecting our daily lives. And it was very confusing trying

928
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,920
to reorient myself, not just in my own life after

929
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:07,679
ready transition, but also in trying to go against the

930
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:15,480
tide and challenge the transgender institution. It wasn't until I

931
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:17,960
started to explore my faith that I realized that was

932
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,119
the only way that it possibly could orient myself again

933
00:53:21,199 --> 00:53:27,039
and to guard myself in this battle. I was raised

934
00:53:27,039 --> 00:53:31,719
pretty much agnostic, if not atheists, and for most of

935
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,719
my life I didn't believe in not necessarily a God,

936
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,800
but I didn't My idea of who God really was

937
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:47,159
was very disorganized. I thought when I was in the

938
00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:49,800
throes of my transition that maybe there was a God

939
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,400
who created me, but he created me for wrath, for destruction,

940
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,320
and to be destroyed and to suffer. It wasn't until

941
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,199
after ready transition and when it had people evangelizing to

942
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,159
me telling me, no, you're not broken, This is not

943
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,480
where your story ends. You can use all of this

944
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,000
for the greater good, and God is going to use

945
00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:15,519
these experiences to make you better. That I started to

946
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:18,920
be able to challenge myself and also to heal in

947
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,320
the things that have happened for me. And now I

948
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,079
know that even in the most painful parts of my life,

949
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:29,159
it was all part of a plan to get me

950
00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:30,719
to where I am now, and I would not be

951
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,679
the young woman who I am today without any of it.

952
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,400
And that's the lesson that I want every young person,

953
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:42,480
anybody really who is listening to my story, who may

954
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,920
be struggling with giants of their own, takeaway from this

955
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:48,760
that you are not broken, no matter what's taking away

956
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,679
from you, no matter what parts of your life you're losing, forever,

957
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,599
you can be made in youw in Christ, and you

958
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:56,840
can turn to him. You can turn to his word,

959
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,440
and you can turn to his grace and to prayer

960
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,960
to help you through whatever you may go you may

961
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,400
be going through, whether it's the the everyday struggles of

962
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:12,760
life or if you're going you're grieving something, or you're

963
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,360
going through massive change that seems insurmountable.

964
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,679
Speaker 1: Amen, hallelujah. What a beautiful picture of God's grace and

965
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,480
just the transformative power of the Gospel in your life.

966
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,199
It makes me think of the story of Joseph and

967
00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:28,920
just at the end of his story where he says

968
00:55:29,039 --> 00:55:32,199
that what man intended for evil, God intended for good,

969
00:55:32,519 --> 00:55:34,800
and just to think about all of the people in

970
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,320
your story who intended so much evil, and talking obviously

971
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,239
of course about the medical professionals and the doctors who

972
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,440
should have helped you but instead harmed you. And you know,

973
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:50,920
if not for your story of transition and detransition, where

974
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,039
all of these people meant evil, you may never have

975
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:57,960
found Christ. And it's through that difficult path that man

976
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,239
meant for evil that God actually used for good. And

977
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,599
just what a beautiful story redemption. And it makes me

978
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:06,639
really excited about how many other people that we will

979
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:11,840
see who have walked this road of suffering, who will

980
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,320
find Christ because of it. And so your story is

981
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,360
just so inspiring in that regard, Chloe, and I've loved

982
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,159
to hear to hear about all of it. So I'm

983
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,519
excited about that. I'm also just so excited and so

984
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,480
encouraged by this lawsuit, and I'm excited to see where

985
00:56:26,519 --> 00:56:28,679
your lawsuit goes from here. I think there are brighter

986
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:31,679
things ahead and I cannot wait to see can't wait

987
00:56:31,679 --> 00:56:34,079
to see what comes of it. So thank you so

988
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,039
much for being on the Kylie Cast today. Everybody should

989
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:40,079
go follow Chloe on social media. She does awesome work.

990
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,239
And yeah, we'll be following your case from AFAR. So

991
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,599
thanks again, so much.

992
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

993
00:56:51,639 --> 00:56:54,039
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode

994
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:56,760
of The Kylie Cast. If you haven't done so already,

995
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,920
please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Leave

996
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:02,800
us a five star review. I will be back next

997
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,719
week with more, so until then, just remember the truth hurts,

998
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:07,559
but it won't kill you.