Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Kylie Cast. I'm Kylie Griswold,
Managing editor at The Federalist. Please like and subscribe wherever
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If you'd like to email the show, you can do
so at radio at the Federalist dot com. I would
love to hear from you today. I am so pleased
to welcome to the show. Chloe Cole. Chloe is a
beautiful young woman. She is a d transitioner and an advocate.
Chloe and I dive into her personal story as well
as some of the biggest headlines of the day that
have to do with the transgender craze and de transitioners,
and we offer a reason why you conservative listeners and
de transitioners should be hopeful about what the future holds
on this issue. It's a conversation you won't want to miss.
So without further ado, please welcome to the show, Chloe Cole. Chloe,
thank you so much for joining me on the Kyli
Gast today. It's so great to have you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. I've been wanting to chat with you
about your story for a long time. So today is
the day. Why don't we I mean, we've got a
lot of news items to get into today, but why
don't we just start at the very beginning. For any
listeners or viewers who maybe aren't familiar with where you
come from or what your story is, can you just
rewind kind of back to your childhood. Where are you from,
what was your upbringing like, and how did you get
to be the activists that you are today.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, I am an advocate for the protection of
children and parental rights from medical transgenderism, as well as
a detransitioner who personally has gone through the process of
a medical and social gender transition between the ages of
twelve to sixteen. So before all of this started, before
I was wrapped up in the transgender world, I was
growing up as a pretty ordinary young girl. In a
lot of ways, I was a bit of a tomboy,
but I also I had influence from both sexes, from
my older sisters to my older brothers, and I was
pretty squarely in the middle and all round her. And
the older I got, the more that I just felt
like I related a lot more to my older brothers
and to my male peers, and like they were the
ones who were always talking about the things that really mattered,
and I shared a sense of humor with them, I
shared interests. But none of this was something that I
really cared about, And in fact, I actually loved these
things about myself and saw them as just another thing
that made me different, made me unique, and there was
nothing wrong with that until around the time that I
started to hit puberty. I was going to middle school,
and so around that time there's just a lot of confusion,
I think for every kid, as you're kind of grappling
with the fact that you're starting to grow up for
real and you're eventually going to not just be a
boy or a girl. You're either going to be a
man or a woman. And there's a huge responsibility that
comes with that. And there's all these awkward changes happening
in your own body and your own life and your
emotions and in dealing with people around you as well.
And I had an especially rough time with that as
I had to move schools and I was sitting puberty
a little bit earlier than a lot of my other peers,
so there was a lot of attention that I was
getting much earlier than the other kids. And it was
very deeply uncomfortable the way that other people would talk
about my developing body like I was an adult or
like an adult model, rather than like a child or
just a human being right in front of them. And
I also I never really fit in the mold for
different reasons. I was always on the creative side on
top of being a tomboy, and it just got more
and more difficult for me to relate to other girls,
to the point that I would sometimes even look in
the mirror and think, am I ever going to be
pretty enough? Like, I don't like makeup, I don't like dresses,
I don't like purses, And the things that I would
often hear about about womanhood were so negative. It was
always about the curses that come with it, things like periods,
the pain of pregnancy, rather than the blessings that come
as a result of that pain. And so I just
had this impression that it was all going to be bad,
that it was all going to be painful, and that
there was nothing really in it for me, especially as
a woman who, especially as a girl, didn't feel particularly
feminine at the time. But I didn't really have this
idea in my head that I was actually a boy
until I started using social media around the age of twelve,
and that was where I first learned about transgenderism and
about both the medical aspects of it, and I started
getting radicalized into the ideological as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so did you find I mean, was the stuff
you were seeing on the Internet? Was that like the
dark corners of Tumblr? Or was this just like mainstream
stuff from you know, your generic Instagram algorithm or your
friends on Facebook? Like where was it coming from?
Speaker 2: So? I did use Tumblr a little bit, but I
was mostly there's at the time. There's a bit of
an overlap between Tumbler and different platforms like Twitter and
especially Instagram. There were a lot of it didn't start
with me using Tumblr, it I mean, that was when
I first started to learn a little bit about like
these ideas from like queer theory and stuff. I never
really personally made a connection to it until I started
using Instagram. And at first I was just like seeing
what like my friends were seeing from school, right, it
was like memes. It was stuff about like just normal
everyday twelve year old interests. Until eventually, I mean I'd
always been a little bit on the nerdier side, so
I started to venture a little bit more into like
the fan bases around like my favorite bands, my favorite
cartoons and stuff, and in these communities. And this is
still the case today, if not even worse. But there
was like this ideological undertone to a lot of it,
where a lot of these kids my age, it wasn't
celebrities who I was following. It was kids who were
talking about like these these same interests, and they also
would talk a little bit about their own personal lives
and their beliefs, And that's where I started to learn
a lot about like different different aspects of leftist politics
from Some of these kids were like full blown socialists.
I mean, at least they would say they were. They were,
they were young enough that they probably didn't really fully
understand just what they were talking about. But also a
lot of them were going a little bit more into
identity politics as well, like feminism and and talking about
either identifying as like being gay, or these different like
gender identities like non binary, pangender. It was really it
was just really interesting to me at the time because
it was very stimulating in a way that I think
a lot of a lot of young people could. I
think it for for a lot of young people who
already are like kind of on the outside of the
mold and they're looking for a sense of identity, it
can give them something that they can relate to in
a way. And that certainly was the case for me.
But it was just so like learning about like all
these different flags, different words, and just these people's personal
experiences was something that at first drew my curiosity, and
then after a little bit I wondered why I was
so curious about it, and then that curiosity led to
questioning of myself and going through these different names, these
different terms, before I finally settled on thinking, Okay, I
have never felt comfortable with my developing breasts or the
things that people would say about it. I don't even
feel like I'm pretty or feminine enough to fit in
with other women. I think that I'm just a flat
out young man, and that's why I've never felt like myself.
I thought that was it. I thought that I finally
found the answer and that I was never going to
feel alone again. I was never going to feel like
I wasn't myself ever again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so for you, it really was that you thought
you were a boy and not a girl. It wasn't
just a discomfort with with all things feminine, It was
you genuinely were wondering, am I in the wrong body?
Am I? Am I hearing you right? Because I did
have a conversation a similar conversation with Walt Higher about
his transition, and obviously you're talking about huge generational difference there,
but he was more just trying to escape who he was.
He didn't necessarily think he was a woman. It was
just like I need a new identity because I can't
be Walt anymore. But for you, like, are you saying
that you are, like, maybe I am actually a man.
Speaker 2: I mean, there was a little bit of wanting to
escape the shame of my life up until that point,
just like being like an awkward girl who had a
hard time adjusting and wanting to be somebody new. But
I also was really, I genuinely believed this idea that
there was something wrong with me that was making me
feel unsettled with myself, and that it was it became
from the fact that I actually, on some level was
a man rather than a woman who just so happened
to be born in the wrong body.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And were these messages that you were also getting
from school in like an institutionalized way, I mean, were
they just coming from your peers via social media or
I know you were in California, which I'm sure was
even further left to like where a lot of these
other young people who are struggling with some of these
identity issues come from. Were these ideas and these curiosities
reinforced from in the classroom, like from your teachers and counselors,
or was it not really an issue when you were
going through it as much so?
Speaker 2: What I was learning on the internet then is what
a lot of children are unfortunately learning in the classroom now,
but at that point in time, it could be that
my school was a little bit behind on the curriculum
that they're giving out to a cross California now. But
this is something that I never heard about in school,
even after I ID transitioned and I and I graduated.
I never heard about this in high school at all.
But there was institutional pushing of this to me the
moment that I started going to therapy.
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, I want to get into some of
that next. So you start to have some of these
thoughts that I maybe I am a boy you're curious about,
you know, maybe changing up your identity or figuring out
where you fit in. So where did you turn first?
Did you immediately find a therapist? And was there any
resistance or questioning of this along the way. I know
a lot of stories from now detransitioners who kind of
inserted themselves into the pipeline or worth kind of thrust
into the pipeline, and there was just never a question
of are there other underlying mental health issues? Is there
something else that's unaddressed here, like childhood trauma or something
Was there any of that in your experience or was
it just kind of she thinks she's a boy. Here
we go like, you know, que the p bockers and hormones.
Speaker 2: I don't think the adults in the room other than
my mom and dad did their job at all the
way that they were supposed to. I think that any
sane adult would see a young girl the way that
I was and think, Okay, so she's confused about her identity,
she doesn't like her body while she's at an age
where children and especially girls tend not to. But maybe
there's something deeper behind the scenes that we're not seeing,
so we're going to start asking her questions. No, they
didn't do that at all. There was none of that.
It was just they were so they were going pretty
much completely by protocol, right, which that means to not
question at all, to go along with whatever the child
wants and allow that to guide the course of treatment,
rather than being the adult in the room and being
the guidance and really using common sense. My mom and
dad when I first told them about this confus usion
around my sex were I mean, they were on it.
They wanted to. Their first instinct was to start researching
because they didn't know anything about this. They never had
to deal with this with any of my older brothers
or sisters, so it was very new to them. But
everything was pointing them in the direction of either affirmation
or getting me clinical treatment as soon as possible. When
their assumption of what treatment meant was psychiatric psychiatric intervention
that would hopefully get behind all this and also teach
me how to cope with these feelings in an age
appropriate manner that wouldn't push me into any permanent decisions
that could potentially get me hurt. But the doctors had
the very opposite idea in mind as soon as they
came to them, and they were told that My mom
and dad were told by these doctors and pretty much
every single one who was involved, that this was very serious,
that we had to address this now, that nothing could wait,
and in doing so, it could get me seriously hurt,
because I might take my own life from being forced
to go through puberty and develop secondary sex characteristics and
look more like a woman as I got older and
feel more and more detached from my supposed true identity
as a young man who I claim to be, and
my mom and dad never believed I was transgender or
a boy. But they just kept having this idea drilled
into their head that I was going to die without this,
And no parent wants to hear that, especially from a clinician.
I don't want to. I don't blame my mom and
dad for saying yes, because they had no other options
given they were not told about any alternatives, and these
were the people who they entrusted to help take care
of me, telling them that I in order to live,
I was going to have outdo this.
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Speaker 1: These are people, after all, who took an oath to
do no harm and who are supposed to be you know,
the the arbiters of science and research, and they're supposed
to know what is the correct course of action and
then prescribe that. And that emotional blackmail component of that
is so strong, and that is such a it's such
a big part of the Fox Varian case we're going
to talk about here in just a minute, just this
idea that would you rather have a live son or
a dead daughter, or vice versa, And that the power
of that question from medical professionals to parents who feel
vulnerable and scared is cannot be understated. And it's so common,
and you know, especially especially before, like when you were
dealing with this, I mean, we know a lot more
now because conservative media and others and other activists like
you have done a great job of bringing research to
light that shows, you know, actually, suicide rates for people
who do go through with medical interventions and transgender surgeries
is as high, if not higher than, uh than for
people who are denied these these things or do not
do not follow through with so called wrongly termed gender
affirming care. But parents, I mean, it's their primary job
to protect their children. And so when you have a
doctor who has taken an to do no harm, confront
you with, well, your child is going to kill themselves
if you do not do X, Y and Z. That's
emotional blackmail, and that is strong, and that has a
lot of power. And so yeah, I don't even know
how as a parent, especially before you know in the past,
I can't imagine having to withstand that kind of pressure.
That's just a lot.
Speaker 2: And so before everyone to know what my mom and
dad went through.
Speaker 1: No, no, at any step of the process. I mean,
I really can't imagine. Can't imagine before we get into
the Fox Varian case, because I really want to dive
into that. It's it's really groundbreaking and exciting stuff. I
do just want to touch on another thing you said
in your first answer, So we're rewinding a little bit here,
But I do think it's such a challenge for conservatives
to do much better messaging around womanhood and how beautiful
and awesome it is. And you know, I know, as
you're going through the throes of puberty, it might not
be convincing to you, but it is so damaging Even
among many conservatives, there's still this undercurrent of feminism that
motherhood is a burden, that marriage is unfair to women,
that you know, there's just so many toxic messages, and
we have an opportunity here, you know, to tell young
women like, yeah, puberty is rough, like having your first
period and adjusting to all of that, that that can
be a really tough time, but shepherding them through that
with positive messaging about how awesome it is to be
a woman. I mean, I don't know all the ways
we can do it better, but I know we can
do it better because marriage and motherhood and femininity are incredible.
And I would never want to discourage young women who
are already feeling the pressure of my body is changing
and this is uncomfortable and I'm getting unwanted attention with
it's not going to get better. Because it does, it
gets a lot better, and it's it's great. I love it.
I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Speaker 2: So it's something that I hope to know myself one day.
I mean, the single biggest thing that broke me out
of the ideology was learning that one day I would
want to become a mother and that would conflict with
not just this lifestyle, but also the fact that by
doing is so young, I could be sterilized. And learning
a little bit about breastfitting as well, and realizing I'm
going to miss out on this very beautiful part of
God's design for me and so are my children. And
it was the regret of that, it was the grief
and also knowing that there was a way forward, that
really that was the final straw, and it gave me
the courage to finally get back out of this lifestyle.
And you're absolutely right that I think conservatives could do
a much better job at messaging in generally young women.
And we can see we can see that clearly in
the political divide in my generation between the sexes, Like
so many young women are falling into increasingly radical leptism,
while young men have always been pretty pretty fairly conservative.
That is something that I don't think has really changed
over the years. But we have to ask ourselves why
is there that divide? I don't know, I don't I
really don't think that there's one straight answer. But having
spent some time in the conservative space for about four years,
I would say and I would say that conservatives, especially commentators,
tend to seem to either be between one of two extremes.
It's either like hyper feminism, like focusing on yourself yourself yourself,
your career, your career, your career before you decide to
get married or it's women's worth comes to HOWND pretty
much entirely to their to being a wife and to
being able to have kids, which I mean, I think
that both of those things are very important. I think
that there's this naive idea that before the Industrial Revolution,
women were just like never pretty much anywhere except for
the home. No, like, we've always been working, we've always
been contributing to the economy to some degree. But I
think that there is a middle ground that we can
establish that, yes, our an important part of identity for
many women is going to come from womanhood, from motherhood,
from being a wife, and I think a lot of
women should focus on doing that sooner than later, because
obviously we have a very narrow amount of time. We
have a biological clock that men really don't have, and
so it's kind of an imperative for those of us
who really want to do it to try and get
married and build a family as soon as possible. But
I think that that's also something that we can balance
with having a career and having an education as well.
I think it was trying to navigate this confusing messaging
as a kid. That just made me want to opt
out of being a woman entirely. Like seeing some people
say like, oh, like most of your work is going
to come from whether you're fertile, whether you're mother, whether
you're a wife, and other people saying like, oh, it's
just focus on having a having a career and not
not focus on anybody but yourself or or or not
focused on having a family.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well I just love that how strong that
poll was, and that the reason you know, this straw
that broke the camel's back in your regret story had
to do with with these innately feminine woman things and
just you know, when we talk about biology and we
talk about the sexes, it does come down to chromosomes
and genitalia, sure, but it's so much more than that.
Like we've been designed with biological urges and biological realities
and this innate desire to mother and to nurture and
to create life and to sustain life. And you know
a lot of women now there's a lot of misplaced
mothering where we're seeing that kind of driving people toward
you know, toxic empathy or like misplaced activism instead of
nurturing and creating another generation. But it's just you know,
those feelings that you had where you're like, wow, I
can't I can't imagine you know, not having the option
to breastfeed, or like, you know, just just coming to
terms with this regret. It's like, yeah, because because our
biology is not just reduced to our chromosomes, although it
is that, but there's so much more to it than that.
Just we've been designed with these awesome capabilities to create
and sustain and nurture life. And you know, there was
the whole feminism era of I think it was Sheryl
Sandberg or whoever, whoever did the whole lean in messaging
to your career and how damaging that was to women. Again,
not to say that women can't or shouldn't have careers
and that there's no place for women in work, because
because of course there is and there can be, but
just kind of taking that messaging and turning it the
other way and saying, no, lean in to the things
that make you feminine and that make you different from men,
because those are actually the things that are empowering because
we're not we're not men, We're not just you know,
cogs in a corporate machine, like, we have so much
more to offer, and so many of those things are
found in these innately biological urges and instincts that we
have as women. And you know, which is why deferring
marriage and motherhood for the sake of a career or
you know, freeze, just freeze your eggs, or just experiment
with you know, these transgender things like whatever you want
to do. It's like, no, we do. We do have
a biological clock, and we do have these urges for
a reason, and like lean into that. Don't lean into
the feminist messaging of uh, you know, just be a
corporate cog who who finds your fulfillment and clocking in
from your nine to five or or whatever it is.
There's it's so much bigger than.
Speaker 2: That, right. I feel like feminism and the sexual revolution
have made it so that we're so far removed from
our own biology and the real meaning of things like
sex and our are the reason why are our bodies
and even our psychology is organ as a way that
it is. Both men and women are designed around their
roles in reproduction and in women were very very painstakingly
designed around either either raising children or just taking upon
a maternal role in general, and not only has embracing
the fact that my body has been designed around that,
that creation of new life, but also the fact that
socially I'm supposed to be amongst other women, I'm supposed
to be in some way nurturing the next generation has
I think brought a great deal of development and purpose
into my life, even as somebody who isn't even a
mother or wife yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so awesome, and it's such a message to
people too who who desire that but haven't found that yet,
because you're no less a woman before you are married
or have children, and there's still a role, there's still
a feminine role for you in your community and in
your family and in society, and it's really very important
that you lean into that.
Speaker 2: And I think that role right, and I think that
it can be a little bit more difficult for women
who naturally are a little bit more masculinely leaning, or
they don't really fit into the mold and they're different
in some way. But it's also important to find that
balance and be able to be able to find like
female community around you, to discover like which women are
really your friends and keep them close especially when it's
women who are within your own family when possible, whether
it be your mother, a grandmother, and aunt of a sister,
a cousin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so important to learn from the other women
in our lives to help develop and foster our own
our own sense of femininity. And yeah, you're so right,
and part of the diversity of female personalities, just like
there's diverse male personalities. You know, is another that's a
good thing. That's not a bad thing. It's not a negative.
If you have more of a leadership personality, or you know,
if you prefer to work more in the background or whatever, like,
those are those are those can be strengths, especially like
within the church or whatever. Those are not liabilities. Those
are actually really good things. And we, to our peril,
we believe the lie that that makes us a man,
or that you know, that it's something to be to
be squelched and squandered rather than used for for good
purposes and good ends. So let's pivot to the fox
very in case, because this was a huge piece of
news that came out in the past couple of weeks here,
So Chloe, why don't you just give us a quick
rundown of what happened in this lawsuit, because I'm sure
it's very exciting for you, and there are so many
classic trans components that are present here, and so it's
just it's really just an awesome, awesome win for detransitioners specifically,
and for people who just care about biology and who
care about children, and who care about preserving the dignity
of bodies and minds that are struggling with these things.
So if you can just break down the case for us,
that would be great.
Speaker 2: So this case is incredible for so many different reasons.
And I actually I didn't know nobody wrote the public,
didn't actually know that this case was going on until
she had her win just a few weeks ago. And
so she had a very similar experience to me. She
was a child when her doctors in New Europe started
experimenting on her, started telling her the lie that she
was a male, and then telling her her mother that
the only way that she could survive into adulthood was
by going down this process. So the case was primarily
focused on harm caused by the double mostectomy that she
was given out just sixteen years old, as well as
a psychological harm to her mother by being told that
it was life or it was either death or transition,
and a lack of informed consent by a mission as
well as emotional manipulation, and she ended up having the
very first win for a de transitioner lawsuit in New York,
of all places, in a very one of the most
I think one of the most liberal counties in the
US actually, which is a complete miracle. She won about
two million dollars, which I frankly, for the damage, the
lifelong damage that comes from going through this process and
the irreversibility of it, that is not nearly enough. No
amount of money ever would be enough. But I think
it bodes very well for the d transitioner movement, for
the future of the law going forward on these cases,
and I think that it's going to encourage a lot
more de transitioners and people who have been harmed to
not to speak out, but also to try to see
justice for themselves in the court system, which has been
such a difficult battle over the years I've had. I
sued my own doctors when I was eighteen years old,
and it's been about almost it's been almost four years,
and the case has just been moving so slowly because
my own doctors have been trying to do everything, has
been doing everything they can to try and get my
case thrown out or get into a binding arbitration. And
there have just been so many cases over the years
that have been thrown out completely and failed because there's
really no precedent on this issue for even the most
skilled of lawyers to be able to advocate for their
for de transitioners. But now this gives us a very
clear cutcase of harm being taken accountability for. And it's
for that For that reason, I see a lot more
success in legal avenue moving forward, and this is going
to be one of the biggest things that's going to
take down the industry.
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, absolutely, it's it's so exciting. It really
energizes me to think about what's possible now because of this.
So I I mean, I know there are a lot
of similarities between your specific detransitioner experience and hers, and
also so many other classic trans components here. I mean,
reading through her case, it's like she had childhood trauma
via divorce and custody battles, plus other underlying mental health issues.
She was a miner who was pushed into irreversible surgeries
her parents were also emotionally blackmailed with do you want
a live son or a dead daughter? Like all of
these things and then having deep regret like this is
a very classic collection of components here that you really
see in so many of these cases. And so that's
a cool aspect of it because it's so relatable and
so similar to these other cases. But I'm curious with
your lawsuit and this lawsuit, what is the same about
the legal approach and what is different? And should this
change the way that lawyers of d transits. Should it
change the way they go about advocating for their clients legally.
Speaker 2: So I think that some of the biggest the biggest
differences in our cases were that she I think her
lawyers were alleging that the standard of care specifically around
transitioning was violated in her case, and it was focused
on the mistectomy rather than the the social transition and
the the other procedures that she had. I'm actually I'm
not too sure as to whether she's had hormones or
puberty blockers before that or what age that happened. But
my case is a lot more comprehensive. It's focused on
the standards of care of medicine in general being violated,
especially the tenet of medicine to do to do no
harm and damage for damage from all of all of
the procedures that I that I went through, as well
as as fraud, because I firmly believe that the entire
basis of this treatment is completely fraudulent. It's not only
a violation of the tenets of medicine itself, it's a
complete lie on its face because nobody, no nobody can
change sex. It is something that is immutable. No amount
of surgeries, no amount of no amount of drugs will
ever change this simple fact of life that you will
either always male or female. M And I think that
if we really want to take down this industry, we
have to be we have to attack it on all fronts,
and we have to call out every single fault for
what it is.
Speaker 1: So what's the status of your lawsuit now? And do
you think that this outcome changes your lawsuit or you know,
will change what approach you take or anything like that,
or you just kind of still waiting to see where
it ends up.
Speaker 2: So I am actually set to go to courts, which
I am very excited about because it's been years of
just constant like battles back and forth of Kaiser trying
to appeal my case, trying to get it thrown out,
trying to get us into arbitration. But I want to
go to court. I want Kaiser to be exposed for
everything that they have done, for all of the abuses
that they are doing under the name of gender affirming care.
And I think that with this recent win, it is
looking like I'm my case and these other cases are
going to be going to be set up for success
moving forward.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Glenn Stanton wrote a piece for us at the
Federalist just to put this kind of all in perspective
and all in context. He wrote that Benjamin Ryan, who's
an independent reporter, has documented that there are twenty seven
other detransition or lawsuits that have been filed to date,
and this was I mean, potentially more have been filed
now since then, because with this victory, you know, maybe
people are filing more. But you're talking about dozens of
cases that are already in the works, filed by d
transitioners and their lawyers. But then you also have the
Manhattan Institute research between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty three.
They found a conservative minimum of five thousand, two hundred
US teen girls that had their breasts amputated, thinking that
that would be a solution to their transgender, you know, gender,
their transgender delusion. There's belief that they were that they
were men. That's a very conservative estimate. So you're talking
you only have a couple dozen cases. Currently, you have
thousands of people who have been harmed by this, and
we know the rates of de transition are fairly high,
especially you know, because so much of the research follows
these cases for only a brief period of time. Well
down the road, trans regret is pretty strong, and so
I mean, we might see hundreds, if not thousands more cases.
And so this just is crazy to have this outcome,
and it clearly is striking the fear into the medical
establishment because now we have seen multiple medical groups come
out and quickly days later, days after this verdict, they backtracked.
So you had the American Society of Plastic Surgeons and
the American Medical Association both came out just days later
with statements basically saying that they recommend delaying so called
gender affirming care until adulthood. And that's a huge reversal.
That's a huge change from previous statements from them, and
you know what the wpath like general quote unquote medical
community has been saying about these things for years. That
was a pretty fast turnaround. So that inspires a lot
of confidence in the direction that we're headed here, and
I assume you feel the same.
Speaker 2: Way absolutely With how quickly those organizations and now that
change and recommendations, it makes me wonder if it might
have been in response to that case or just to
the cultural change in general I think has been a
big part of that. It's really disappointing it's taken this long,
considering that this movement that I'm a part of, pretty
much everybody on an individual level who is publicly facing
and speaking out about this has received incredible backlash for
doing so, some of us even being threatened with death,
with violence, even being assaulted at events or while we're
out and about, just for the sole fact that we're
speaking to the truth and we're challenging this ideology and
this industry head on. But the thing that's been frustrating
for years was hearing, oh, well, all these major organizations,
these major medical organizations, they don't back what you're saying.
So there's no it's been very difficult to get any
institutional backing on our on our concerns and about while
talking about the harms of this, even as people who
have either directly been harmed by this, the transitioners or
the clinicians who have had to see this in their practice,
or parents and families who have experienced this with their
own kids. But to finally have an organization saying this,
at least even just the surgeries need to stop in
children under the age of nineteen, and hopefully they'll continue,
they'll continue pushing for older and older with the drugs
as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, because as you said, it's not really enough. It's
a great start, but it's not enough of an admission because,
like your case demonstrates, you cannot change your sex. So
this is not a question of are we doing it
to miners or are we doing it to adults. Either way,
it's a fraud because you're completely correct like that. You
actually can't change that, So it's junk science. It's completely fake.
And you know these organizations should be changing these these
position statements across the board, not just for miners. But
it's still clearly a step in the right direction. It's
also crazy because you know, this stuff is really an
eighty twenty issue, you know, like transing kids is not
what the majority of Americans want. You know, most people
are not actually on board with that type of radical
quote unquote medicine. But of course that wasn't going to
change the medical tide because all of the financial incentives
before somebody's gonna win a case are all still they
still stack up behind sending kids down this pipeline because
it's a cash cow. If you can uh set up
a kid with puberty blockers and then wrong sex hormones
and then surgeries and then you know, follow up maintenance surgeries,
you have created a patient for life, and you will
continue to get paid tons of money from both them
and insurance companies forever. There's no end to that because
then even if they later detransition, that's more money in
your pocket from those surgeries. So it just it never stops.
And so even if the majority of the country is like, yeah,
that's junk science, they don't care because if they're not
getting successful lawsuits that where they have to pay out,
it is a cash cow. And so it's so cool
to see the financial incentives potentially finally matching up with
these social incentives because the country is on a different
path than the medical establishment, and maybe we can we
can bring those a little closer together here with lawsuits
like this.
Speaker 2: One, right, I mean, there are some physicians, some surgeons
whose careers even rely on this industry, so there's an
incentive to to keep moving, keep moving forward with it.
But beyond money, which of course is one of the
single biggest drivers here of this practice, there's also the
ideological component of this. This is how I mean the
entire medical profession right now. Even doctors who are not
directly engaging with transgender patients or with administering them as
the hormones or surgeries, are referring them out. They're trained
to affirm patients and to basically just give into whatever
their patient identify as and whatever they want. And a
lot of these, these these doctors, these people within the
medical profession are so far removed from the rest of
our culture. They're just doing that and day with patients
and with the medical industry and whether being told within it,
and they might not even realize that they're within ideological
bubble that they're operating, yeap.
Speaker 1: And we've seen this with so many other things besides
transgender quote unquote medicine. We saw it with COVID clearly,
where things were being pushed that were completely out of
step with where the scientific evidence was leading. We've seen
it with commitments to quote unquote equity and healthcare, where
we give people treatment based on the color of their
skin instead of their actual need or their condition. We
see it with when you get asked for your pronouns
on hospital paperwork, and it's like, is this an establishment
of science or is this an establishment of politics? Because
I'm a little bit confused here because I am biologically
a woman, So why are you asking me about my
pronouns on my hospital intake forms? That does not inspire
confidence about how your commitment to science. Yes, yes, I
didn't go to.
Speaker 2: The doctor for almost five years because of there was
an element of trauma in experiencing what I did, and
just an overall distrust of the medical profession. And unfortunately
it wasn't entirely misplaced or irrational. I had this fear
of being heard again, and obviously what happened to me
was not going to ever happen again, and I would
make absolute sure of that, But I just there's no
I've seen just how science has been thrown completely out
of the medical profession, and how I've been treated after
the fact, even after like trying desperately to get my
doctors to be on the same page as me, even
in just like getting my records chain back to female
and my sex marker my name changed back. I still
get letters to this day and I have to laugh
because it's so hilariously ridiculous referring to me as mister
as Leo, as a man, and I the first appointment
I had with a doctor, every single pretty much every
single fear I had was confirmed. I was first. The
very first question I was asked was about my pronouns,
about my gender identity, and then once I gave a
little bit of my history because I was seeing a
new doctor, his first response was to try and refer
me to a gender clinic, even though I was desperately
telling him, no, no, no, I do not want to
go back. Please stop asking me these questions. I do
not I just want to get checkups and be treated
for the issues that this has caused me.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, he tried to re refer you to
a gender clinic after your detransition.
Speaker 4: Yes, that is crazy, and well, I in a way,
I can't blame him, because there is no way acknowledgement
of detransition in the medical system.
Speaker 2: There's no the word d transition isn't even written any
standards anywhere, and there just is no there's no system
that doctors can can help us with. There's no standards,
there's no billing codes. So they're kind of at a
loss of what you actually do when they're dealing with
a patient who either regrets this or has been harmed
by it, and how to deal with those complications.
Speaker 1: Which just goes to show that the term sex or
gender transgender experimentation is the correct way to refer to
these things because it's all experiments. Like you know, we
can hear that these are reversible or whatnot, but they
don't have a plan to reverse it. You know, this
is not this is not within their medical lexicon, you know,
as you said about detransition, like, this is not this
is not something that they ever plan to reverse or
that they ever see reversed, you know, as far as
they're concerned in the medical literature and such. So, yeah,
that's insane. Let's let's move on, because we could talk
about this all day, but I have a little bit
more that I want to get to here. So let's
talk about the latest example of trans violence, because now
we have another trans story in the news, which is
the horrific shooting out of Canada at tumblr Ridge School.
In that case, we had a trans identifying shooter who
killed eight other people and then himself, and of course
the media instantly refer to this person as female, using
she and her pronouns, and just straight up calling the
shooter female without any qualifier, without even using the euphemism
trans woman. I mean literally just calling this male female.
Horrific situation, terribly sad. We've seen way too many instances
of this now, and of course this is not in
the United States, but it's our next door neighbor. And
I just you see these horrible stories and it's enraging
and it's terribly sad, and it just leaves you feeling like,
what are we supposed to do about this? Because it
really does seem to be an epidemic of trans violence.
You know, we saw with the Covenant School shooting, that's
not the only instance. I mean, there's been a handful
since then. Here in the States. I'm curious you know,
aside from winning these lawsuits and just sort of turning
the tide on the trans craze to go back the
other way, what else can we do about this because
grabbing guns is not going to fix the problem. Like
this is clearly an issue of the mind and a
spiritual issue, I would say, but also just based on
your own experience and what it was like living with
synthetic hormones in your body, Like, do you think there's
a role that synthetic hormones play in this beyond just
the mental health issues? Like, like, what do you think
about this whole thing?
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked, because I feel like that's a
very important part of the discussion that's often left out
even by the media and by the by officials who
are dealing with these cases. And there absolutely is a
huge uptick in the violence that is happening, that is
being perpetrated by people from within the transgender community in
different ways, but especially these mass shootings have been happening
since I think it goes as far back as twenty nineteen.
But the very last thing that we should be doing
is obscuring details around these cases and lying to not
just these people's face about who they are, but to
the public about the reality other sets and the role
that this ideology and their mental health issues are playing
in this. It's that ignorance of reality and avoiding the
truth that is actually arguably furthering the violence. It's obfuscating information,
It's making it difficult for those who are grieving in
those who want to know more and want to investigate.
But it also is making it on an individual level,
very confusing for these individuals who already are very conf
used and they're trying to navigate their their lives and
not being given what they what they really need in
terms of of psychological treatments. But I mean, we don't know.
I I think I don't believe that the shooter was
on hormones. He made a post on on social media
about being on a wait list at some point for
hormones and not receiving them. But that information is something
that is That's one of the things that commonly is
obscured about these the these these cases, whether they or not,
what drugs these people are on, their their clinical the
clinical background of these of these shooters, and the the
how how far in they are into into transitioning. But
I feel like this, this wave of violence that we're
seeing unfold, is just one more reason on top of
the millions of other reasons that we need to stop
pushing young people down this path, because it's not just
a danger to them individually and their bodies, it's now
potentially putting the public in danger by enabling their fantasies,
by enabling these psychotic and these narcissistic tendencies, rather than
actually helping them.
Speaker 1: M hmm, yeah, well I do think, I mean, I
don't know the answer to this, and like you said,
if we can't even get a straight answer from the
media on whether the sex of the shooter was male
or female, we're not going to get answers about their
medical records about whether they were on hormones. That's just
not going to happen. You know, we can, we can,
we can speculate based on whether they identify as trans
or whatnot, but but we won't know. And so, you know,
we can, we can look at all of the things
that are not going to work as solutions. But just
to turn this to a brighter note, I don't think
it's just a mental health crisis, although it is that,
I think it is also a spiritual crisis, and you
see so many things here where the transgender delusion is
a lie. It is a lie from the enemy. It
is a complete denial of the designed order of humanity.
It is turning biological truths, time tested truths about who
we were created to be on their head, and basically
also ultimately, I mean it goes back to the first
lie in the Garden of Eden about that you will
be like gods if you do this, And you know,
at the end of the day, transgender experimentation is trying
to be God. It's changing who you are. It's basically
believing that you as an individual can play God and
change your physical embodiment to be something else. And that
is all sad and scary stuff, but it's also met
with a beautiful, glorious truth, which is that there can
be redemption and there is actually a solution to this,
and it is Christianity. It is christ There is freedom
that can be found in surrendering to the God who
made you, and you know, finding that there actually has
been There's a penalty, but there's also a price that
has been paid. And Christ died to save us from
ourselves and to save us from the lives of the
enemies and to save us from arson. And as I
was reading through your bio, I know that conversion to
Christianity is a part of your story, and I love
that because it's arguably the most important part of your story,
and so I want to find out from you how
exactly you became a Christian and then also how that
changed going to a Christian counselor or a Christian therapist,
and the kind of light and hope that was brought
to you in that setting versus the clinical setting.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you asking that because I also feel
like that is the most important part of not just
my testimony, but my life, and it's a blessing that
I want to spread with other young people as much
as I possibly can. What my own story has taught me.
And also witnessing this wave of violence that's been happening
and just the the corruption of our institutions and the
uphill battle of dealing with that over the years, is
that we live in a world that no longer values
the truth. That is what all this confusion is downstream of.
And it's not just biological truth, it's not just scientific
and easily observable truth. That we're dealing with that is
being ignored. It is the truth. I think that a
country that is not led by God, that is not
led by a belief in Christ, is going to come
further and further and further away from the value of
the truth. And we witness that happening with not just transgenderism,
but with all these ideologies infecting our government, infecting our institutions,
infecting our daily lives. And it was very confusing trying
to reorient myself, not just in my own life after
ready transition, but also in trying to go against the
tide and challenge the transgender institution. It wasn't until I
started to explore my faith that I realized that was
the only way that it possibly could orient myself again
and to guard myself in this battle. I was raised
pretty much agnostic, if not atheists, and for most of
my life I didn't believe in not necessarily a God,
but I didn't My idea of who God really was
was very disorganized. I thought when I was in the
throes of my transition that maybe there was a God
who created me, but he created me for wrath, for destruction,
and to be destroyed and to suffer. It wasn't until
after ready transition and when it had people evangelizing to
me telling me, no, you're not broken, This is not
where your story ends. You can use all of this
for the greater good, and God is going to use
these experiences to make you better. That I started to
be able to challenge myself and also to heal in
the things that have happened for me. And now I
know that even in the most painful parts of my life,
it was all part of a plan to get me
to where I am now, and I would not be
the young woman who I am today without any of it.
And that's the lesson that I want every young person,
anybody really who is listening to my story, who may
be struggling with giants of their own, takeaway from this
that you are not broken, no matter what's taking away
from you, no matter what parts of your life you're losing, forever,
you can be made in youw in Christ, and you
can turn to him. You can turn to his word,
and you can turn to his grace and to prayer
to help you through whatever you may go you may
be going through, whether it's the the everyday struggles of
life or if you're going you're grieving something, or you're
going through massive change that seems insurmountable.
Speaker 1: Amen, hallelujah. What a beautiful picture of God's grace and
just the transformative power of the Gospel in your life.
It makes me think of the story of Joseph and
just at the end of his story where he says
that what man intended for evil, God intended for good,
and just to think about all of the people in
your story who intended so much evil, and talking obviously
of course about the medical professionals and the doctors who
should have helped you but instead harmed you. And you know,
if not for your story of transition and detransition, where
all of these people meant evil, you may never have
found Christ. And it's through that difficult path that man
meant for evil that God actually used for good. And
just what a beautiful story redemption. And it makes me
really excited about how many other people that we will
see who have walked this road of suffering, who will
find Christ because of it. And so your story is
just so inspiring in that regard, Chloe, and I've loved
to hear to hear about all of it. So I'm
excited about that. I'm also just so excited and so
encouraged by this lawsuit, and I'm excited to see where
your lawsuit goes from here. I think there are brighter
things ahead and I cannot wait to see can't wait
to see what comes of it. So thank you so
much for being on the Kylie Cast today. Everybody should
go follow Chloe on social media. She does awesome work.
And yeah, we'll be following your case from AFAR. So
thanks again, so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode
of The Kylie Cast. If you haven't done so already,
please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Leave
us a five star review. I will be back next
week with more, so until then, just remember the truth hurts,
but it won't kill you.