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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham, the Great American. Of course, the market, the

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<v Speaker 1>fluctuations are unbelievable. Up down, thousand points there, two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>points there. And it's going to be a belly match

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<v Speaker 1>between Jijao Ping on one hand, maybe the Big Show

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<v Speaker 1>on one hand, and then the Andra Andre the Giant

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<v Speaker 1>on the other. You got ping Ge against Trump. Someone's

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<v Speaker 1>got a back down. No one's going to back down.

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<v Speaker 1>If they back down? What does it all mean? Joonan?

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<v Speaker 1>You and I now Steve Gorm he's the executive director

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<v Speaker 1>of the Climate Science Coalition of America, author of four

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<v Speaker 1>books on energy, including the Great One, which is out

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<v Speaker 1>available from any to see the Green Breakdown the coming

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<v Speaker 1>renewable energy failure Steve Gorm And first of all, Steve,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And Steve, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people would like to know with the green

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<v Speaker 1>energy breakdown happening. I see windmills falling apart in New England.

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<v Speaker 1>I see coal miners are happy in West Virginia. I

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<v Speaker 1>see pipelines being now authorized. But one issue that has

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<v Speaker 1>come to mind is all these tariff The tariff war

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<v Speaker 1>is going on. You have said that these tariffs specifically

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<v Speaker 1>will hammer green energy. Can you explain that to the

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<v Speaker 1>American people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really amazing what's going on now. Not only

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<v Speaker 2>we've talked about before the Trumpet executive orders that want

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<v Speaker 2>to cut down green energy for this country. We also

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<v Speaker 2>talked about Trump suspending all of the offshore wind leases

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<v Speaker 2>for the offshore wind which affects ten states and affects California,

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<v Speaker 2>Oregon on the west coast, ten states on the East coast.

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<v Speaker 2>But now we have this tremendous tariff war going on,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is really a big issue with green energy.

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<v Speaker 2>And depending on when folks are listening to this, the

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<v Speaker 2>United States has raised the tariffs on Chinese imports to

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<v Speaker 2>over one hundred percent and China has just boosted the

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<v Speaker 2>return dotory tariffs up to eighty four percent on US

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<v Speaker 2>goods that are sold in China. So we have a

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<v Speaker 2>tremendous war going on between the US and China. And

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<v Speaker 2>there are some other angles to this as well. First off,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of this affects green energy, and that's because

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<v Speaker 2>we import a lot of green energy components from China.

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<v Speaker 2>China produces over eighty percent of the solar panels that

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<v Speaker 2>come into the US, or they produce components, and China

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<v Speaker 2>has been offshoring some of this to Vietnam and other places.

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<v Speaker 2>But Trump's tariffs are also on Vietnam, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>have solarselves. We have components for batteries that go into

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<v Speaker 2>electric vehicles. China refines about sixty percent of the world's lithium,

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<v Speaker 2>eighty percent of the cobalt, ninety percent of the manganese

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<v Speaker 2>and east go into electric vehicle batteries, and also the

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<v Speaker 2>batteries that are going the grid scale batteries that California

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<v Speaker 2>and New York and some other states want to put

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<v Speaker 2>into place as well. So it's just a tremendous impact.

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<v Speaker 2>We also have these tariffs affecting Europe, and many of

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<v Speaker 2>the wind turbines that want to go off the East

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<v Speaker 2>Coast are coming from a European suppliers and those are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be hit with twenty percent or so. So

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<v Speaker 2>really a tremendous impact on renewables. Whereas you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>can remain the biggest producer of natural gas, of petroleum,

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<v Speaker 2>of one of the bigest producers of coal in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>These things are US produced, and so the price difference

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<v Speaker 2>between hydrocarbons and renewables is going to get very, very big.

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<v Speaker 1>And Steve Gorma, I live in the Midwest, and whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's Ohio or Indiana, because we're largely flat because of

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<v Speaker 1>the ice bar at the Ice Age about fourteen thousand

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, it scraped the land flat. So Indian, Ohio,

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<v Speaker 1>many parts of Michigan have these huge wind turbines, and

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<v Speaker 1>these things when they break down without a large battery

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<v Speaker 1>storage system, these things don't work at all when the

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<v Speaker 1>wind doesn't blow. The energy must be stored. One of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that's always perplexed me off the East Coast

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<v Speaker 1>is out the environmentalists always cried about the whales and

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<v Speaker 1>the dolphins are being affected because of pollution, and all

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<v Speaker 1>of us are against pollution. Not too many of us

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<v Speaker 1>are in favor of a green energy future because of

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<v Speaker 1>the expenses. Can you explain why the environmentalist off New

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<v Speaker 1>England suddenly find wind turbines which are gigantic. These things

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<v Speaker 1>are not like a windmill. These things are unbelievable in

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<v Speaker 1>size that have killed literally millions of marine animals over

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<v Speaker 1>the past ten years. And now they're breaking down and

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<v Speaker 1>there's no parts available, and the parts have become available

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<v Speaker 1>are too expensive. China has us in a bad position

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about lithium and cobalt. Why don't the

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<v Speaker 1>environmentals care so much about whales and dolphins killed by

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<v Speaker 1>their green energy future. They don't seem to care.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the environmental groups have sold their sold

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<v Speaker 2>their souls to the superstiti of men made global warming.

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<v Speaker 2>You're right. Back in nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies,

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<v Speaker 2>it was save the whales. It was, you know, let's

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the oceans and the environment and real pollution.

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<v Speaker 2>But the theory of climatism or the ideology of climatism,

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<v Speaker 2>has really become front and center for every environmental group.

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<v Speaker 2>And now they're even willing to trade off birds and

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<v Speaker 2>eagles that are that are chopped up by wind turbans,

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<v Speaker 2>impact on whales off the coast. Those things are now

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<v Speaker 2>secondary to global warming. It's very, very unfortunate, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's one of the reasons why mister Trump doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>like wind turbines and why he sees put a block

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<v Speaker 2>on the licenses off the East coast. But we're just

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<v Speaker 2>going to see this industry really really hammered. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not only the tariffs, but Trump administration has been cutting

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<v Speaker 2>a US climate policy throughout his organization. He's basically told

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<v Speaker 2>NASA that you're going to concentrate on space. Isn't that refreshing? Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>because NASA was doing a lot of climate stuff. Noah

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<v Speaker 2>is reducing head count. They have about thirteen thousand personnel,

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<v Speaker 2>they're cutting about two thousand, and a lot of those

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<v Speaker 2>are tied to climate things. The EPA under Lee's Eldon

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<v Speaker 2>is cutting a lot of staff also tied to climate,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Federal Energy Management Agency is cutting staff that

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<v Speaker 2>have been doing work on climate change. So just tremendous

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<v Speaker 2>top to bottom shifts in the administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we have Donald Trump wanting to save the whales

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<v Speaker 1>and the Democrats want to kill them. Now, another issue

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<v Speaker 1>is Pete Hegseth. You have a great column post at

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<v Speaker 1>Steve gorm about the new Secretary Department of Defense, and

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<v Speaker 1>I saved the club. I'm gonna play it later about

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<v Speaker 1>Lloyd Austin sitting there and General Mark Milly. They're sitting

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<v Speaker 1>there about two years ago and one of the Republican

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<v Speaker 1>Senators said Secretary Defense Lloyd Austin, who by the way,

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<v Speaker 1>was a lobbyist for Raytheon. But that's a different issue.

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<v Speaker 1>What are the two or three biggest issues facing the

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<v Speaker 1>American military? So I would thought, you know, the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>issues are like China, about space, about the incapability we

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<v Speaker 1>have of producing our own batteries to fuel maybe the

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<v Speaker 1>electrical grid. No, No, the biggest number one issue was

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<v Speaker 1>white supremacy in the military, and the number two issue

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<v Speaker 1>was climate change identification then mitigation. We have like seven

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<v Speaker 1>hundred military bases in one hundred different countries, and so

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<v Speaker 1>the Secretary Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chief said,

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<v Speaker 1>we go into a military base, identify how we're inflicting

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves upon the environment, and by doing so, we come

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<v Speaker 1>up with a mitigation plan. So American military base, which

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<v Speaker 1>is there to guard the natives, shall we say, whether

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<v Speaker 1>in Europe or Asia or Africa from being invaded or what.

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<v Speaker 1>The biggest thing is not the well being of the soldiers,

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<v Speaker 1>but we have to identify climate change, and then we

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<v Speaker 1>have to mitigate and spend billions of dollars making sure

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<v Speaker 1>that our military bases are conversant with the demands of

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<v Speaker 1>Greta Thunberg. Can you explain to me how that's possible

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<v Speaker 1>for the American military.

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<v Speaker 2>It's absolutely crazy, and this has been growing for a

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<v Speaker 2>number of years now. Last month, the new Secretary of

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<v Speaker 2>the Defense Department of Defense, Pete Hagsth wrote that the

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<v Speaker 2>Department of Defense does not do climate change crap. We

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<v Speaker 2>do training and war fighting. And so again a tremendous change.

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<v Speaker 2>But this has been growing back since about since the

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<v Speaker 2>Obama administration, about twenty ten. The Secretary of the Navy

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<v Speaker 2>at that time, let's see Ray ABIs, He made a

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<v Speaker 2>statement in twenty eleven that said, by no later than

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, at least half of the energy that the

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<v Speaker 2>Navy uses, both afloat and the shore will come from

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<v Speaker 2>non fossil fuel sources. And he called this the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Green Fleet Initiative. And so the Navy spent literally almost

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred billion dollars over a decade trying to They

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<v Speaker 2>tried to do hybrid electric drive green destroyers, but then

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<v Speaker 2>they found that they couldn't keep up with the carriers

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<v Speaker 2>when they're running on those electric engines. And they tried

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<v Speaker 2>to convert everything to biofuels, but the biofuel portion of

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<v Speaker 2>the fuel cost fourteen dollars a gallon, about seven times

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<v Speaker 2>as much as a diesel portion, and so it was

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<v Speaker 2>a terrific failure. And by twenty twenty U twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 2>if you exclude the nuclear carriers, less than one percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the rest of the fuel came from biofuels, despite

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<v Speaker 2>spending all these these billions. And then you know, but

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<v Speaker 2>under the Biden administration, they were doubling down. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you look at a climate report, there's a Climate Action

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<v Speaker 2>two thirty plan from the Navy, and it was lauding

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<v Speaker 2>things like these projects. They had one called the Mekong

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<v Speaker 2>Delta Climate Research collaboration with the government of Vietnam, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they had another one on California organic recycling and composting.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Navy, Navy, and so you got to say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>how does this help Navy readiness? You know, it's just leaving.

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<v Speaker 2>And not only the Navy, the Air Force wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>do a sustainable aviation fuel and spend money on that

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<v Speaker 2>for jets, and the Army, in a report called Army

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<v Speaker 2>Climate Strategy Plan of twenty twenty two, called for taking

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<v Speaker 2>all of the battlefield vehicles and making them electric, even

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<v Speaker 2>the tanks.

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<v Speaker 1>And you say an electric tank, electric tank? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>kidding me? An electric tank?

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<v Speaker 2>And not only that, they were developing battlefield chargers that

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<v Speaker 2>they would carry out there and try and charge these

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<v Speaker 2>these takes, you know, sitting on the battlefield were charging.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just crazy. But Haig Seth is getting

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<v Speaker 2>rid of all this stuff. Just another huge change to

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<v Speaker 2>to get rid of this climate ethic that has inflate

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<v Speaker 2>inflated all of our government.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you have some great stats. The EV share was

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<v Speaker 1>at eight percent and twenty twenty three up slightly from

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, twenty twenty four, EV sales fell nine percent

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<v Speaker 1>without incentivizing and paying Americans through tax credits to buy

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<v Speaker 1>the evs. How much better would we have been if

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<v Speaker 1>we had gone to hybrids, which creates its own energy

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<v Speaker 1>because of the rolling of the tires, and Toyota has

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<v Speaker 1>bet on hybrids and hydrogen instead of this dream of

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<v Speaker 1>a of a of a fossil fuel energy future. How

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<v Speaker 1>much better off would we have been with hybrids. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>some Toyota's are on their mark with this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hybrids are growing, they're actually doing better than pure

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<v Speaker 2>plug in evs. But the problem is, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>United States and Europe they were offering incentives but only

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<v Speaker 2>for pure plug in electric vehicles. This seventy five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars text credit. Europe was doing the same thing. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you had a if you had a combustion engine

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<v Speaker 2>in your car that burned gasoline, even if there's a hybrid,

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<v Speaker 2>it's bad, bad news, you know. So again, the climate

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<v Speaker 2>ideology was taking people away from what makes some sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Just just another another bad set of policies. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And lastly, I've heard you often say, Steve Gorm that

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<v Speaker 1>the evs are worse for the environment than regular gasoline

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<v Speaker 1>powered cars. Can you tell the American people why if

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<v Speaker 1>you buy an EV bribed by the government to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>that is a worse ecological decision than a gasoline powered car.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in other ways, you know, the government's been focused

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<v Speaker 2>on getting rid of carbon dioxide emissions and that really

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't hurt the environment. That's what's crazy. And EV is

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<v Speaker 2>to produce a little bit less of that. But as

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<v Speaker 2>you say, uh, they're producing you need all these metals

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<v Speaker 2>that are mined and developing nations the ore, and then

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<v Speaker 2>it goes to China for processing. So if we switch

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<v Speaker 2>all our cars to evs and we're dependent on China

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<v Speaker 2>for all the batteries and for all the metals, and uh,

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<v Speaker 2>that would be not a good thing. And then and

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<v Speaker 2>then you know, we have big areas of land. We

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<v Speaker 2>acquire all this mining, huge amounts of land, and you

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<v Speaker 2>have all this waste for metal production, and so you

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<v Speaker 2>have big pollution issues with evs as well. Uh, it

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<v Speaker 2>can be not okay, but not in China, not in

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<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Republic of Congo where all these places are

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<v Speaker 2>producing it right now. And now this big trade war

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<v Speaker 2>is just going to shut all that down. Man. We

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<v Speaker 2>just have a tremendous world in flux energy wise right now.

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<v Speaker 1>All the liberals that buy the evs and Tesla I

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<v Speaker 1>won't own an EV But nonetheless, I think about the

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of kids on their hands and knees needs in

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<v Speaker 1>the Congo actually digging for these products that are killing

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<v Speaker 1>and destroying the lives of little black kids in the

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<v Speaker 1>Congo to supply the base materials shipped off to China

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<v Speaker 1>to have this battery technology. And you know, I thought

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<v Speaker 1>liberals cared about minority kids. I thought liberals cared about

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<v Speaker 1>especially little black children on their knees in the dark

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<v Speaker 1>mining these exotic metals. But I guess liberals don't care

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<v Speaker 1>or the media doesn't cover it. And if the government

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<v Speaker 1>bribes you to purchase these evs, which I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>over with now that maybe the media at some point

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<v Speaker 1>will cover where these exotic materials come from and the

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<v Speaker 1>cost to the natives living there, working in the dark

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<v Speaker 1>and dying in caves by themselves because evs must have

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<v Speaker 1>these exotic batteries. I've not seen one report anywhere what

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<v Speaker 1>happens in the congo, you know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been very very few. And then the flip side,

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<v Speaker 2>not only the raw materials, but once the battery wears out,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you do with it? Well, you can't recycle

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<v Speaker 2>the thing. We've had like four recycling plants around the

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<v Speaker 2>world that have ignited and gone up in flames over

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<v Speaker 2>the last two or three years because these batteries self ignite.

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<v Speaker 2>So you have a big problem with all these batteries

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<v Speaker 2>piling up. You put them in landfills. You know, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not such a good idea. It's very expensive to get

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<v Speaker 2>the metals out of them, and then they're fire hazards

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<v Speaker 2>as well. But you know, I think I think the

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<v Speaker 2>world is stepping back from this a little bit, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're putting a little bit of Brakes on. So maybe

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to get back to some common sense again.

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<v Speaker 1>Well Trump is all about common sense. We'll see what happens.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's Steve Gorm. You may reach you. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's Steve Gorham G O. R. E. H A M.

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<v Speaker 1>Dot com is not correct. Get all your books and

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<v Speaker 1>all the information. The truth will set us free.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and the copies there. Anyway, in Green Breakdown there's

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and forty colored sidebars and one of one

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<v Speaker 2>of the funny ones is Britain's advice to stop showering

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<v Speaker 2>to conserve energy, and so they're advising people to shower

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<v Speaker 2>with a friend. But I have all these these sightbars

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<v Speaker 2>in Green Breakdown. Are that make the book fun as

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<v Speaker 2>well as informative?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, Steve, I think a lot of Bretts

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<v Speaker 1>they have bad teeth and they stink and the food

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<v Speaker 1>is terrible. Maybe I shouldn't say that, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>two of those things are accurate. But Steve Gorm, once again,

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Gorm dot com, Executive director of the Climate Science Coalition,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks again for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show, Markets

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<v Speaker 1>and Fluctuations. Eventually we're gonna end up in pretty good shape,

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<v Speaker 1>but Steve, thank you very much. Thanks Bill, Let's continue

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<v Speaker 1>with more. Bill Cunningham, the Great American, Live live at

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<v Speaker 1>your home of the Reds and Moore News Radio seven

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<v Speaker 1>hundred WLW