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<v Speaker 1>It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, welcome back everybody, as we begin the nine

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<v Speaker 2>o'clock hour, and we're going to talk about offshore wind

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<v Speaker 2>here in New England. And we had scheduled a guest

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<v Speaker 2>who is with us, Dustin Delano. He's with the New

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<v Speaker 2>England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>You're very welcome. We had also extended an invitation to

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<v Speaker 2>the group called the New England off New England four

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<v Speaker 2>Offshore Wind Coalition. We had not heard from them, and

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<v Speaker 2>we are now being joined by Grand Provo, who is

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<v Speaker 2>a member. I'm not sure, is it Provost? Give me

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<v Speaker 2>the correct pronunciation? Okay, so it's the anglicized pronunciation, Provosts.

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<v Speaker 4>You got it the second time.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's good. That's good. The New England for Offshore

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<v Speaker 2>Wind Coalition. So let's just have a discussion here so

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<v Speaker 2>that we can get everybody's point of view out as

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<v Speaker 2>to the positives and the negatives of the proposal. And

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<v Speaker 2>I expect that both of you will treat one another,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, professionally, and we'll also take phone calls if

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<v Speaker 2>people want to join the conversation. So let me start off.

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<v Speaker 2>Grant tell us about the New England New England for

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<v Speaker 2>Offshore Wind Coalition. I may bungle these names because they're

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<v Speaker 2>pretty similar. Who makes up the New England for Offshore

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<v Speaker 2>Wind Coalition?

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<v Speaker 4>So we're a coalition of labor, social justice and environmental organizations.

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<v Speaker 4>You have the e l M in there, you have

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<v Speaker 4>some members of different a fl CIOs who represent different

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<v Speaker 4>labor unions. You've got building trades members. And the coalitions

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<v Speaker 4>ends from uh, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire

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<v Speaker 4>and Vermont.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, there's no offshore wind in I assume in

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<v Speaker 2>Vermont at least maybe off of Lake ship Plane.

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<v Speaker 4>But now, but they have green energy goals. To meet

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<v Speaker 4>their pro you know, they need to procure green energy

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<v Speaker 4>from someplace. You know, Massachusetts gets green energy from hydro Quebec.

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<v Speaker 2>So yep, I'm very familiar with that. So how long

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<v Speaker 2>has your coalition been around.

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<v Speaker 4>I've been a member for five years. I'm currently the

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<v Speaker 4>vice president of the main a f l c i

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<v Speaker 4>O and I'm a business agent Fire Workers Ocal seven

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<v Speaker 4>in the state of Maine. It was a lot smaller

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<v Speaker 4>back then. It's grown considerably over the last five years.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I assume the answer is five years. Yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>And then where's your funding come from? Is it just

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<v Speaker 2>come from labor unions?

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<v Speaker 4>No, I mean it's in viros too. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 4>how they do their funding. But yeah, and we're just

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<v Speaker 4>coalition members.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, right, you're the vice president of the organization. Right.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow, the AFL is different. It's an umbrella of different

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<v Speaker 4>labor unions. You know, it could be like the Postal Service,

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<v Speaker 4>could be teachers there.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't confuse me here. I'm just trying. What I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get in my arms around, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>do this with both of you. Is you're an officer

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<v Speaker 2>in the New England for Offshore win coalition. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>that's what if I misheard you, I apologize.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I mean it's a it's a little different. It's

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<v Speaker 4>just a little technicality. I'm sorry. I don't need to

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<v Speaker 4>confuse it. You know, we're there's a steering committee of

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<v Speaker 4>a few people, and then there's a bunch of different

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<v Speaker 4>coalitions and businesses. Black Economic Council of Massachusetts. It's over

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<v Speaker 4>one hundred one hundred uh businesses, labor associations.

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<v Speaker 2>And organ Well, let me put it like this, who

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<v Speaker 2>is going to build the turbines? Uh? Who's who's funding

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<v Speaker 2>the construction of the turbines that your organization would advocate for?

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<v Speaker 4>Uh? The developers would fund the projects and the building

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<v Speaker 4>trades would provide the labor for those No.

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<v Speaker 2>I get that. No, I I know the developers are

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be out there in the water, trust

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<v Speaker 2>me on that. So who are the developers? Uh?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, n the developers to be just.

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<v Speaker 2>To be to be candid, grant, let me, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>let me go across to the table there. I assume

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<v Speaker 2>there is significant business corporate interests here as well as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, labor unions which would like to see people

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<v Speaker 2>get jobs. I get that. So I'm just wondering where's

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<v Speaker 2>the money coming from. Where's the money coming from labor unions?

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<v Speaker 2>Is what I'm trying to get at.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, the labor unions are nonprofits that get

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<v Speaker 4>paid by membership deduction.

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<v Speaker 2>The labor unions were Grant, Grant, I get it. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a member of a labor union, a member of SAG

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<v Speaker 2>after Okay, I've been a member of a labor brief

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<v Speaker 2>over fifty years. Okay, so I know how that works.

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<v Speaker 2>But what I'm trying to understand is who is behind

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<v Speaker 2>the effort to build the turbines. The labor unions might

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<v Speaker 2>construct the turbines, but where's the money coming from for

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<v Speaker 2>the projects? Is what I'm asking? And if you don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>feel free to tell me that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, I guess I got confused because I

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<v Speaker 4>mean ratepayers say for the projects, for the developers to bid,

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<v Speaker 4>and the developers put the money up front. A funding

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<v Speaker 4>for our coalition would come from whatever money.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care about funding for the coalition. You're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to do about answer my questions directly or maybe I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not articulating them.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>That We'll come back to it. Okay, Dustin, how are

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<v Speaker 2>you tonight? Dustin Delano of the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin,

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<v Speaker 2>tell us about your organization. How long have you folks

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<v Speaker 2>been around and how large is your membership and who

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<v Speaker 2>supports you? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm with the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association and

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<v Speaker 3>we are a very new organization, very grassroots. We represent

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<v Speaker 3>commercial fishermen all across New England, and any consumer who

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<v Speaker 3>also wants to participate and be involved with us as

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<v Speaker 3>well has opportunity to be members. We currently our membership

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<v Speaker 3>is right around nine hundred active members and businesses. And

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<v Speaker 3>like I said, we're spread out from Maine all the

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<v Speaker 3>way through Connecticut and Rhode Island.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're opposed to offshore wind far I assuming I'm

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<v Speaker 2>aware of that, correct?

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<v Speaker 4>We are?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Okay? Why are you opposed to what? I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>the other side is going to say, natural clean energy.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the primary reason for our opposition is that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we represent the interests of coastal communities and

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<v Speaker 3>and you know the fishermen that they depend on to

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<v Speaker 3>exist and continue on in their their generational legacy, and

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<v Speaker 3>offshore wind directly displaces all of those people wherever it comes.

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<v Speaker 2>How close if you know, how close are some of

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<v Speaker 2>the turbines that would be built, say off of Maine,

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<v Speaker 2>which might affect you, how close are they to to

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<v Speaker 2>not only fishing grounds, but how close close are they

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<v Speaker 2>proposed to the coastline?

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<v Speaker 3>So in the Gulf of Maine, they're they're further offshore.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the closest, the closest commercial site is supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to be around forty just over forty miles off shore.

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<v Speaker 3>There is a test site being developed by the State

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<v Speaker 3>of Maine which is about twenty miles off shore. And

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<v Speaker 3>these sites are you know, it's not about how close

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<v Speaker 3>they are to fishing grounds, it's that they are in

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<v Speaker 3>the fishing grounds.

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<v Speaker 2>So therefore residents are not going to I mean, the

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<v Speaker 2>water is the horizon and the ocean is about sixteen miles,

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<v Speaker 2>so if they're twenty to forty miles away, people are

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<v Speaker 2>not going to see these from the shore. But you're

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<v Speaker 2>saying it's going to affect the fishing grounds. What will

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<v Speaker 2>it do to the fishing grounds?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's still remains to be seen. But I can

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<v Speaker 3>tell you that I've sat through I couldn't even count

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<v Speaker 3>presentations that I've sat through in the last twelve years

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<v Speaker 3>about offshore wind and what we talk about. What we're

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<v Speaker 3>talking about in the Gulf of Maine specifically is floating

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<v Speaker 3>offshore wind technology, and of course that technology is constantly changing,

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<v Speaker 3>and when we have meetings, they they tell us that,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, they the technology will be different when they're

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<v Speaker 3>actually in the water than what may exist right now,

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<v Speaker 3>which makes it even more difficult for us to have

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<v Speaker 3>any type of conversation because we don't really know what

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<v Speaker 3>these anchoring systems are going to be like and what

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<v Speaker 3>these bases will look like. All I can speak to

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<v Speaker 3>is different things that we've seen in the past, which

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<v Speaker 3>have been like it's been presented as you know, giant

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<v Speaker 3>cement floating bases the size of a football field with

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<v Speaker 3>you know, eight hundred nine hundred thousand foot structures on

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<v Speaker 3>top of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Which will you say that they're not embedded in the

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<v Speaker 2>in the seabad, you say that they're sitting on cement

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<v Speaker 2>which is sitting on the seabed.

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<v Speaker 3>They're sitting on cement which will be floating on top

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<v Speaker 3>of the water column, and they will be anchored to

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<v Speaker 3>the bottom. And the types of anchoring systems vary depending

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<v Speaker 3>on who you talk to, but a lot of the

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<v Speaker 3>original planning that was going on was for like three

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<v Speaker 3>sets of anchoring systems for each turbine with chain links

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<v Speaker 3>the size of a pickup bed and scope anywhere from

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<v Speaker 3>seven to one or nine to one to the water death.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to Okay, I'm getting into the weeds a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit there. Let me take a break. When we

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<v Speaker 2>come back, I want to talk about the pros and

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<v Speaker 2>cons of this and the success that we've had around

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<v Speaker 2>New England so far, and of course we had the

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<v Speaker 2>problems with the blades breaking off off the coast of

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<v Speaker 2>Nantucket just a few months ago. We'll get to all

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<v Speaker 2>of that, My guests on the line together and I'll

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<v Speaker 2>have them at some point. They'll probably want to talk

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<v Speaker 2>with one another. Dustin Delano, who you just were listening to,

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<v Speaker 2>the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association and Grant Provost. He's

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<v Speaker 2>with the New England for Offshore Wind Coalition. Or take

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<v Speaker 2>a quick break back on night Side if you'd like

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<v Speaker 2>to join the conversation. I'll tell you we're gonna have

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<v Speaker 2>at least one more break, one more break before we

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<v Speaker 2>get to phone calls. But if you want to get

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<v Speaker 2>on the air and ask questions and make comments, the

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<v Speaker 2>numbers are six, one, seven, two, five, four to ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back

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<v Speaker 2>on Nightside right after this.

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<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World

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<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios on DUMBZ News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about offshore wind and let's talk from the

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<v Speaker 2>perspective of a Grant provost who's with the New England

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<v Speaker 2>for Offshore Wind coalition Grant, I'm going to ask both

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<v Speaker 2>you and and Dustin to keep you your answers a

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<v Speaker 2>little tighter because I want to make some room for

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<v Speaker 2>some phone calls, which we'll start right after nine thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the long term benefit here if we put aside

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<v Speaker 2>the environmental concerns and the fishing industry concerns. What's the

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<v Speaker 2>payoff for people in New England and when will they

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<v Speaker 2>feel that payoff? Assuming that you can proceed on the

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<v Speaker 2>timeline that you would prefer.

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<v Speaker 4>I think a big benefit will be state stability and

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<v Speaker 4>electricity rates. They'll come in and they'll stay at a

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<v Speaker 4>rate as opposed to fluctuating crisis with whatever happens geopolitically

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<v Speaker 4>in the in the world. There'll be a war in

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<v Speaker 4>Ukraine and you know, Russian oil won't be allowed on

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<v Speaker 4>the market, and or Opak will make a decision that

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<v Speaker 4>they'll hold back oil production and then prices will go

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<v Speaker 4>up because of the cost when you have a lease

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<v Speaker 4>area they've been in at a certain price.

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<v Speaker 2>What sort of So would this be electricity and power

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<v Speaker 2>just for New England or would you your companies that

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<v Speaker 2>that you support. Will they be selling this product nationwide?

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<v Speaker 4>I think when it gets on the bread, the electrons

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<v Speaker 4>don't discriminate where they go. I mean, that becomes part

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<v Speaker 4>of the overall package. But you know, it'll be a

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<v Speaker 4>stable source of electricity for New Englanders.

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<v Speaker 2>And I understand it's a fungible commodity. I do get that, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>But the question is if we have turbines off the

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<v Speaker 2>coast of New England impacting our fishing industry, are we

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<v Speaker 2>going to incur a greater cost and inconvenience to provide uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, stable electric rates for people in other parts

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<v Speaker 2>of the country. Are we being asked here in New

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<v Speaker 2>England to do more than we should? Give me A

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<v Speaker 2>quick response to that.

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<v Speaker 4>I would say, now, you know, it's all part of

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<v Speaker 4>changing our energy source into something that's more climate friendly.

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<v Speaker 2>So what the rest of the country is is your

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<v Speaker 2>your focus is on New England. I get that, But

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<v Speaker 2>is this happening yeah, all on both coasts, and is

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<v Speaker 2>it happening in the in the the central part of

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<v Speaker 2>the country. Obviously they're not doing offshore winter mines, are

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<v Speaker 2>they win there's a lot of wind in places like Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma and Kansas they can contribute as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's a lot of wind, and there's a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of solar, especially in the southwest. California's going to do

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<v Speaker 4>floating offshore wind. That's going to be similar here. And

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<v Speaker 4>you'll have, you know, a thirty year lease at a

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<v Speaker 4>set rate that they're going to be paying in so

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<v Speaker 4>you'll have initial construction jobs as well. You know, all

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<v Speaker 4>these jobs are going to be one hundred thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 4>a year jobs. Vineyard Wind created a thousand of them.

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<v Speaker 4>We're talking ten million dollars economic output into family's pockets

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<v Speaker 4>per year.

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<v Speaker 2>Vineyard. Then you have the company that went out of

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<v Speaker 2>that basically stopped the project. It was Vineyard Wind the

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<v Speaker 2>project that has the problem with the blades.

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<v Speaker 4>That's I mean, I'm not an exec for Vineyard Wind,

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<v Speaker 4>are familiar with it, but you know, from what I've

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<v Speaker 4>heard say, single blade a situation and they halted their project.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure if it started up again, I believe

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it would be a matter of time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, Dustin, let me come back

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<v Speaker 2>to you. So Grant has just talked about the benefit.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it sounds to me like there I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if they're going to try to retrain you guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Will this destroy the fishing industry? Is it just going

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<v Speaker 2>to make your job a little tougher and everybody's got

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<v Speaker 2>to sacrifice a little bit? What do you what do

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<v Speaker 2>you say on to points that that grants us raised?

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<v Speaker 3>I think that there are so many environmental concerns that

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<v Speaker 3>are unknown that make it extremely difficult to predict what

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<v Speaker 3>the for sure outcome will be. What I do know

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<v Speaker 3>is that the spatial impact it does completely remove fishermen

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<v Speaker 3>from any areas where you know, floating offshore. When technology

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<v Speaker 3>is used, it's not possible to coexist in those areas.

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<v Speaker 2>Can those areas be limited dust? And so that let's

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<v Speaker 2>say it's a five mile square mile area that's limited

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<v Speaker 2>and you've got the rest of the ocean. Is there

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<v Speaker 2>is there any way to compromise her?

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<v Speaker 3>So it's you know, we have a number of fisheries

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<v Speaker 3>in New England. You know, we have what people hear

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<v Speaker 3>most about is a lobster fishery, a trap pop fishery,

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<v Speaker 3>but we also have a very large mobile fleet and

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<v Speaker 3>those fisheries focus on very different types of bottom and

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<v Speaker 3>so basically all the bottom out there is covered by

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<v Speaker 3>some sort of fishery, and so when you start pushing

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<v Speaker 3>people around and moving things around, everybody has to sort

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<v Speaker 3>of overlap or or move and you can't just you

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<v Speaker 3>can't just pack up and move somewhere else. I couldn't

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<v Speaker 3>just haul on my eight hundred traps and steam east,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, fifty miles and set them because that is

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<v Speaker 3>area that is being utilized by other people in there

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<v Speaker 3>just isn't there isn't space for us to be able

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<v Speaker 3>to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, gentlemen, what's going to take a break here for

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<v Speaker 2>the for the nine thirty news we come back. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to ask the two of you to address concerns

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<v Speaker 2>that each of you have just to try to get this.

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<v Speaker 2>The conversation has been very good, and I appreciate both

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<v Speaker 2>of you being gentlemanly here, which is great. Obviously there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot at stake. We'll continue with our conversation. We're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about wind, offshore wind and its particular impact on

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<v Speaker 2>the fishing industry here in Massachusetts. It is not an

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<v Speaker 2>easy call to make. I'm sure we have two guests,

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<v Speaker 2>dustin Delano, who you just heard is the is with

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<v Speaker 2>the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association, and we're also being

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<v Speaker 2>joined by Grant Provost, who is with the New England

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<v Speaker 2>for Offshore Wind Coalition. We will have more conversation and

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<v Speaker 2>if you'd like to participate, the numbers are six one, seven, two, five,

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<v Speaker 2>four to ten thirty or six one seven, nine three

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<v Speaker 2>one ten thirty. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be back with my guests and maybe even some

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<v Speaker 2>of your phone calls after.

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<v Speaker 1>This Night with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we get to phone calls, let me kind of

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<v Speaker 2>give a challenge to each of you, and that is Grant.

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't you explain to Dustin why his business, his livelihood,

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<v Speaker 2>has to stand down and allow these farms or wind farms,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever you want to call them be built. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that you must recognize that although you have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of workers and probably you know construction people anxious to

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<v Speaker 2>work out there on these projects, it is going to

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<v Speaker 2>affect another branch of labor, and that's the fishing industry.

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<v Speaker 2>What would you say to him if you were sitting

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<v Speaker 2>down over a cup of coffee, well, for that matter

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<v Speaker 2>of beer tonight, what would you say to him grant

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<v Speaker 2>as well as you could.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you know exactly what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I reprospect that's in a lot he's He's

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<v Speaker 4>an awesome advocate for his organization. I've seen him over

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<v Speaker 4>the years, you know, grow into a really, really great leader.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think I would kind of sell him on that,

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<v Speaker 4>you know. I mean, I share some of the same

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<v Speaker 4>concerns he does for people's livelihood. And you know, I

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<v Speaker 4>represent workers, and my workers stand to make a pretty

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<v Speaker 4>good living, and we can take some people in from

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<v Speaker 4>disengaged communities and a lot of people are going to

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<v Speaker 4>do pretty well from how I work to represent my members.

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<v Speaker 4>But you know, tell him I know how he should

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<v Speaker 4>represent his or or anything kind of in that direction.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think I can do.

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<v Speaker 2>So you have no option to say to him, hey, look,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe this might be a career change for some of

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<v Speaker 2>your guys. That there's nothing that you can say to

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<v Speaker 2>him to even soften the impact of what this will do.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this will have a very I assume you

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<v Speaker 2>would admit this will have a huge impact on the

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<v Speaker 2>industry that he represents.

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<v Speaker 4>It's going to have impact, whether it's huge or small.

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<v Speaker 4>I know I couldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't tell you there. I know it didn't work

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<v Speaker 4>very hard on a building a state of Maine to

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<v Speaker 4>push the area that any commercial project could be outside

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<v Speaker 4>of lm A one, which is a lobster management area

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<v Speaker 4>where a majority of fishermen work in the state of Maine,

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<v Speaker 4>not all of them. But I would never intend to

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<v Speaker 4>convents Dustin otherwise about his own industry.

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<v Speaker 2>Enough, okay, that's an honest answer, Dustin, I'll turn the

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<v Speaker 2>table on you and give you a chance to address

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<v Speaker 2>Grant again. You're both people who have some disparate labor concerns.

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<v Speaker 2>At this point, you're obviously concerned about your membership your industry.

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<v Speaker 2>What would you say to or can you say anything

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<v Speaker 2>to Grant Provost on the other side of the argument

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<v Speaker 2>that might convince him that there's other avenues that that

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<v Speaker 2>this fledgling industry of of of wind energy could I

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<v Speaker 2>could look into and to help save many of the

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<v Speaker 2>jobs of your members. What would you say to him?

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I dropped off again there for a minute, wonderful

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<v Speaker 3>service in Maine. Could you just repeat that really quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll try. I didn't realize you had dropped off. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you heard what Grant said to you that pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>there was not much he could say, and he represented

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<v Speaker 2>it that he respected your position. I get all of that,

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<v Speaker 2>and also said that he's representing certain members of people

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<v Speaker 2>who will benefit workers who will benefit from the construction

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<v Speaker 2>of of offshore wind projects. Conversely, your group of supporters,

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<v Speaker 2>your membership is going to be adversely impacted. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he said, you know. I asked him, and he said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know by how much, but obviously it be

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<v Speaker 2>an impact. He was pretty honest about it. What would

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<v Speaker 2>you say to him again, as a fellow representative of

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<v Speaker 2>families and of workers, is there any any any suggestion

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<v Speaker 2>you can make to him that that maybe there's a

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<v Speaker 2>there's an alternative course they can travel other than just

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<v Speaker 2>plucking these uh these wind turbines in the area that

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<v Speaker 2>you folks normally fish.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there's there's a lot there. But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I will say you probably didn't expect that Grant and

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<v Speaker 3>I would know each other, but we have been on

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<v Speaker 3>opposite side of this issue for a few years, but

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<v Speaker 3>have been very cordial with one another and respectful of

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<v Speaker 3>each other. But I you know, my association represents all

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<v Speaker 3>different types of fishermen and so you know, when you

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<v Speaker 3>look at it as a lobsterman who only fishes from Maine,

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<v Speaker 3>there was some legislation that was crafted to minimize the

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<v Speaker 3>impact to those guys, and we were part of, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>pushing through, pushing that through and encouraging that to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>But we also represent people who fish outside of there

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<v Speaker 3>from other states, and people who you know, use mubile

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<v Speaker 3>gear and all of that, and so we we we

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<v Speaker 3>have held this strong position of opposing offshore wind because

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<v Speaker 3>of the severe displacement that that will lead to for

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<v Speaker 3>other fisheries in those regions. And aside from that, there

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<v Speaker 3>are we have highlighted many environmental concerns which we just

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<v Speaker 3>don't know enough information yet. Right, there's just been this.

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<v Speaker 2>What percentage of your membership would be so adversely impacted

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<v Speaker 2>by this that they would lose their livelihoods?

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, I would have to say, you know that there's

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<v Speaker 3>there's less people out there, so maybe twenty five percent.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you have a membership of nine hundred people,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent of that is about two hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five jobs, two hundred twenty five livelihoods. Which cannot

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<v Speaker 2>be minimized, but it doesn't destroy the fishing industry, is

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm hearing you say. Am I misreading you?

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<v Speaker 3>With the thing is that we just don't know. We

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<v Speaker 3>don't know what the environmental harms will be. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>in order for these operations to exist in offshore waters,

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<v Speaker 3>they need to have cooling stations, They need to have

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of different things, which cooling stations, active heat

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<v Speaker 3>exchanges for the cables, and they will dump millions of

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<v Speaker 3>gallons of hot water back into the Gulf of Maine

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<v Speaker 3>day after day after day. And all of these types

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<v Speaker 3>of things are what we have raised concerns about, right

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<v Speaker 3>and we don't know what that will do. We just

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<v Speaker 3>know that, you know, certain species in the ocean don't

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<v Speaker 3>appreciate ninety degree water.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, fair enough, Grant, Let me let me have you

422
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>if you could address those concerns. Those are some legitimate

423
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:11.160
<v Speaker 2>concerns that Dustin just raised. How How has have those

424
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.160
<v Speaker 2>addressed been addressed by offshore wind in other parts of

425
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>the country. I assume the same issues would occur.

426
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.400
<v Speaker 4>I think we're in a fledgling kind of industry right now,

427
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:25.799
<v Speaker 4>and the only offshore wind projects are in the northeast

428
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:30.480
<v Speaker 4>currently right now, the Urmans themselves are air cooled, so

429
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:33.480
<v Speaker 4>less of a concern there. I think that the major

430
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.759
<v Speaker 4>concern would be around any type of substation at sea,

431
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:43.519
<v Speaker 4>possibly you know, cooling. For those not super on the

432
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:51.000
<v Speaker 4>technical aspect, says I'm not an engineer, but yeah, well okay, so.

433
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and great, let me.

434
00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.319
<v Speaker 4>I would say, you know, when these things go off shore, yeah,

435
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.680
<v Speaker 4>you know there. I mean I would be concerned about,

436
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, something being in the water for any period

437
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.200
<v Speaker 4>of time, you know, to gross things. It creates ecosystems.

438
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:16.480
<v Speaker 4>And with these uh arrays being so far offshore, different

439
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:21.200
<v Speaker 4>adverse weather, and you know, large fished populations in a

440
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 4>new ecosystem could could raise a lever of a level

441
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.319
<v Speaker 4>of danger for the people who work the waters. That

442
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 4>would be a concern.

443
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I would have. Okay, am, I to understand you, you correctly,

444
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:40.039
<v Speaker 2>granted you said that there's no offshore wind farms or

445
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 2>turbines or whatever operationally anywhere in the country that we

446
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 2>can we can draw history from, not off California off

447
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:50.519
<v Speaker 2>more temperate climbings.

448
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 4>No, sorry, there's not in there's not in California, And

449
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.359
<v Speaker 4>there's Block Island Sound and they're fags six mega ones,

450
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:00.559
<v Speaker 4>so they're smaller than the ones that they're doing now

451
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:05.759
<v Speaker 4>for Vineyard with no sense station. So you know, Vineyard

452
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:09.880
<v Speaker 4>one is really the first commercial and then Commonwealth is

453
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.720
<v Speaker 4>or Revolution is next one of the two I can't remember,

454
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 4>but yeah, these are the very first ones to get going,

455
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 4>and they were the fixed modefile. We won't see floating.

456
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 4>I don't even think we'll see floating in the one

457
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:22.200
<v Speaker 4>of the study.

458
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay. And then so, so you said that Vineyard one

459
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.319
<v Speaker 2>is the is the company that that I was trying

460
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>to get at earlier tonight? Is that is that the

461
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:38.480
<v Speaker 2>company that's that's that's negotiating this with the legislature in

462
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>in Maine or wherever else or with the federal government?

463
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Is it is the company called Vineyard one.

464
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.000
<v Speaker 4>Uh, well, it's Vineyard one, and Vineyard one is the

465
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 4>fleece area they recently, I think Vineyard two they came

466
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 4>in the try to stay solicitation with Connecticut where island?

467
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So so that's not the un company that that's

468
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:02.359
<v Speaker 2>the name of the geographic area.

469
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 4>So Vineyard one was one day with Vineyard Wind and

470
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 4>they are co developing it. I think it's aving Grid

471
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.119
<v Speaker 4>was in there with Copenhagen Investment Partners and they split

472
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 4>that first project and then Vineyard One became its own entity,

473
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:20.559
<v Speaker 4>I believe.

474
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So now we're now we're getting down to who

475
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 2>owns Vineyard.

476
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:32.039
<v Speaker 4>One Vineyard Wind after Wind developers.

477
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:38.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Is it again? The connection is not great? Are

478
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.519
<v Speaker 2>you saying Vineyard one of Vineyard Wind? If you could

479
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 2>just spell it so I he can hear it? Correct

480
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 2>win win Okay, who's the primary owner of Vineyard Wind?

481
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Is it a corporation? Is an LLC? I can handle it?

482
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Is the private individuals, it's a it's a corporation.

483
00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.160
<v Speaker 4>Uh, it's a little tricky if I can just go.

484
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I'm not fully you know there. But so

485
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.920
<v Speaker 4>basically bo lease is an area, but they pay for

486
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:08.880
<v Speaker 4>the lease area and then they put their turbans, will

487
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:13.440
<v Speaker 4>say hey to construct inside of the lease area. And

488
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:17.000
<v Speaker 4>then it's it's for the state of Maine. The legislature

489
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:20.839
<v Speaker 4>directs the utility to precious power off them for a

490
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:24.079
<v Speaker 4>certain amount of years. So I'm a thirty year lease

491
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 4>to sell power to rape painters.

492
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Get that? No, I get that. But again, the question

493
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.000
<v Speaker 2>that I think you're ducking on me, and I hope

494
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.759
<v Speaker 2>that you're not ducky intentionally. Is there has to be

495
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>an individual and or corporation which which is probably privately held.

496
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.519
<v Speaker 2>These companies are not publicly traded, correct.

497
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:54.799
<v Speaker 4>Oh jeezus, I imagine some of them are in you know,

498
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.400
<v Speaker 4>like Vineyard, I don't think is publicly traded.

499
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>But so you can you can't gear the name of

500
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 2>you can't give me the name of one big investor.

501
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.599
<v Speaker 4>No as a developer.

502
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:16.480
<v Speaker 2>But some corporations are publicly traded, publicly owned. Others are

503
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>privately owned, Okay, And people who own private corporations of

504
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:25.640
<v Speaker 2>this magnitude will stand to make an immense amount of money,

505
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.200
<v Speaker 2>much more money than all of the workers combined. Gentlemen,

506
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Gonna take quick break and if if someone out there

507
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.279
<v Speaker 2>wants to ask a question that I haven't asked, feel

508
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.880
<v Speaker 2>free six one seven two five six one seven nine.

509
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.119
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back right after this.

510
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World

511
00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:50.200
<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.

512
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:55.119
<v Speaker 2>During the break, my guest uh remaining with us, Dustin Delano,

513
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:59.039
<v Speaker 2>the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. He's concerned about the

514
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.799
<v Speaker 2>liveliheerds of Button nine hundred fishermen off the coast of

515
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:05.359
<v Speaker 2>fisherman families off the coast of Maine and grant Provo

516
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.839
<v Speaker 2>with the New England for offshore wind coalition. Vineyard one

517
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:20.240
<v Speaker 2>is jointly owned by two companies, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and Iberdrola,

518
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 2>through a subsidiary of avan Grid Renewables. Copenhagen Infrastructure is

519
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 2>as the world's largest dedicated fund manager within greenfield renewable

520
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 2>energy investments and a global leader in offshore wind Okay.

521
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.359
<v Speaker 2>The company is privately held out of Copenhagen Debtmark, so

522
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a private company which the shares are owned by individuals.

523
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.880
<v Speaker 2>They're not offered to be traded publicly. They traded or

524
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.880
<v Speaker 2>exchanged privately, known as over the counter. It's interesting. I mean,

525
00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Speaker 2>there's some people here are going to make a lot

526
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.400
<v Speaker 2>of money, and it sounds to me like most of

527
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:15.440
<v Speaker 2>them are from Denmark. As a matter of fact, that

528
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:21.000
<v Speaker 2>the key people, which I assume indicates ownership, Jakob Barrow Lopoulsen,

529
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Christian T. Scott Bach, Torsten Luberg Schmid and Christina grumpscherp

530
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Shansen are the key people of Copenhagen infrastructure partners. I

531
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>want to ask Grant Grant, why are they're not more

532
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 2>American companies involved in this since it's going to be

533
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:44.400
<v Speaker 2>American jobs that will be lost in American waters that

534
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:45.519
<v Speaker 2>will be plumbed.

535
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:52.640
<v Speaker 4>Wells. Actually, the industry is a fledgeling right now. There

536
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.559
<v Speaker 4>are American companies that are learning and they're American developers.

537
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:02.039
<v Speaker 4>There's Americans working in Europe on offshore wind projects. For Dominion.

538
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:06.680
<v Speaker 4>It's not Dominion, I'm sorry, it's for Demi. It was

539
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 4>like one of these international merchant marine companies. I basically got,

540
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:18.599
<v Speaker 4>you know, for the Dominion project their developer now and

541
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:22.640
<v Speaker 4>they've purchased some lease areas from other people. They have

542
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 4>a large project in Virginia area. And then even Energy,

543
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 4>which purchased two of the lease areas in the Gulf

544
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.240
<v Speaker 4>of Maine, is also a US based company. However, Denmark,

545
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:42.160
<v Speaker 4>the UK Norway they're first movers in this and they've

546
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 4>been working on offshore why then, they have been building

547
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.319
<v Speaker 4>offshore wind farms in Europe for twenty years plus.

548
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:52.160
<v Speaker 2>All right, okay, well again, I thank you for your

549
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 2>your candor. And it's a difficult situation for the first

550
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>in Maine so let me give a final comment to Dustin. Dustin,

551
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 2>make the case as best you can that the area

552
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:17.440
<v Speaker 2>that your fishermen conduct their business in needs to be protected.

553
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:19.519
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if you've gotten any support. I

554
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 2>understand that there was a period of time where Donald

555
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Trump stopped some of this activity while he was president

556
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:33.679
<v Speaker 2>and then President Biden. According to some of the materials

557
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:38.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at, while he was president. Well, there's an

558
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:41.079
<v Speaker 2>article here which on vineyard wind which I want to

559
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:43.960
<v Speaker 2>read very quickly, and that is a final environmental impact

560
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.400
<v Speaker 2>statement was released in March of twenty twenty one. Approval

561
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.079
<v Speaker 2>was delayed during the term of US President Donald Trump

562
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:53.840
<v Speaker 2>due to concerns regarding fishing in safety. That permission was

563
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:57.320
<v Speaker 2>fast tracked after Joe Biden took office. Final major federal

564
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:03.280
<v Speaker 2>approval was granted in May of twenty twenty one. Uh, Dustin,

565
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:08.159
<v Speaker 2>do you have more hope now that Donald Trump will

566
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:12.199
<v Speaker 2>will resume Uh, the the the White House, return to

567
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>the White House, the that you're going to be treated better,

568
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the fisherman be treated better by Donald Trump than Joe Biden.

569
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think if we go directly to the issue,

570
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.760
<v Speaker 3>a lot of us are familiar with you know, uh

571
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 3>uh Donald Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan where he said

572
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:33.440
<v Speaker 3>that he would put a stop top for wind development.

573
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 3>And so I think there are a lot of fishermen

574
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:37.239
<v Speaker 3>that have put a lot of hope in that, and

575
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, we we hope that those promises will be

576
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 3>followed through. And if I may may just say one

577
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.599
<v Speaker 3>more thing too, you know, we have members who fish

578
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:54.039
<v Speaker 3>in those areas where Vineyard Wind is and even further

579
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.840
<v Speaker 3>south and west of there where there's other other turbines,

580
00:35:56.840 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 3>and it's incredibly disheartening to them to be kicked out

581
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.280
<v Speaker 3>of areas or have areas, you know, the bottom and

582
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:07.960
<v Speaker 3>in areas completely altered, you know, with moving structures on

583
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:10.800
<v Speaker 3>the bottom and moving boulders and just you know, the

584
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:14.400
<v Speaker 3>areas that have been navigating for generations to be disrupted

585
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 3>and the vessels that are in there doing the work

586
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:21.559
<v Speaker 3>are all foreign, are all flying foreign flags. That's incredibly disheartening.

587
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.239
<v Speaker 3>And on one other thing, if you.

588
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Don't mind, you got any quick here, because I'm running

589
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:26.760
<v Speaker 2>out of time very quickly.

590
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:29.880
<v Speaker 3>The Gulf of Maine, these areas in the Gulf of Maine,

591
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:34.199
<v Speaker 3>these leases went for fifty dollars an acre fifty dollars

592
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.280
<v Speaker 3>an acre for the ocean that we make a living from.

593
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.360
<v Speaker 3>One fish could be more than fifty dollars one haul

594
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 3>of it, and that area went for fifty bucks.

595
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.760
<v Speaker 2>All right, gentlemen, Dustin Delano, thank you, Grant Provost, thank you.

596
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 2>This is a tough set of circumstances, very important, competing interests.

597
00:36:56.840 --> 00:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I tried to get two people who could have addressed

598
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.559
<v Speaker 2>it tonight. They both did very well representing their point

599
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:07.119
<v Speaker 2>of view, and I thank them for being gentlemanly and

600
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.199
<v Speaker 2>being constructive and advocates for their constituencies. Gentlemen, thank you

601
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:18.079
<v Speaker 2>very much. Thank you. All right, good night. We'll be

602
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:21.599
<v Speaker 2>back right after the ten o'clock news here on nights side,

603
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:24.960
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to maybe just relax a little bit

604
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:27.320
<v Speaker 2>and talk about how are you going to handle Thanksgiving

605
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Speaker 2>dinner in your family? I mean, if there are people,

606
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.320
<v Speaker 2>and they probably are people in your family who voted

607
00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:34.719
<v Speaker 2>in the presidential election a little bit differently, how can

608
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 2>we both allow for conversation and make sure the conversation

609
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:41.559
<v Speaker 2>stays under control. How do we strike that balance. We'll

610
00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:43.079
<v Speaker 2>talk about it on the other side of the tent.