Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome back everybody, as we begin the nine
Speaker 2: o'clock hour, and we're going to talk about offshore wind
Speaker 2: here in New England. And we had scheduled a guest
Speaker 2: who is with us, Dustin Delano. He's with the New
Speaker 2: England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.
Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome. We had also extended an invitation to
Speaker 2: the group called the New England off New England four
Speaker 2: Offshore Wind Coalition. We had not heard from them, and
Speaker 2: we are now being joined by Grand Provo, who is
Speaker 2: a member. I'm not sure, is it Provost? Give me
Speaker 2: the correct pronunciation? Okay, so it's the anglicized pronunciation, Provosts.
Speaker 4: You got it the second time.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's good. That's good. The New England for Offshore
Speaker 2: Wind Coalition. So let's just have a discussion here so
Speaker 2: that we can get everybody's point of view out as
Speaker 2: to the positives and the negatives of the proposal. And
Speaker 2: I expect that both of you will treat one another,
Speaker 2: you know, professionally, and we'll also take phone calls if
Speaker 2: people want to join the conversation. So let me start off.
Speaker 2: Grant tell us about the New England New England for
Speaker 2: Offshore Wind Coalition. I may bungle these names because they're
Speaker 2: pretty similar. Who makes up the New England for Offshore
Speaker 2: Wind Coalition?
Speaker 4: So we're a coalition of labor, social justice and environmental organizations.
Speaker 4: You have the e l M in there, you have
Speaker 4: some members of different a fl CIOs who represent different
Speaker 4: labor unions. You've got building trades members. And the coalitions
Speaker 4: ends from uh, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire
Speaker 4: and Vermont.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, there's no offshore wind in I assume in
Speaker 2: Vermont at least maybe off of Lake ship Plane.
Speaker 4: But now, but they have green energy goals. To meet
Speaker 4: their pro you know, they need to procure green energy
Speaker 4: from someplace. You know, Massachusetts gets green energy from hydro Quebec.
Speaker 2: So yep, I'm very familiar with that. So how long
Speaker 2: has your coalition been around.
Speaker 4: I've been a member for five years. I'm currently the
Speaker 4: vice president of the main a f l c i
Speaker 4: O and I'm a business agent Fire Workers Ocal seven
Speaker 4: in the state of Maine. It was a lot smaller
Speaker 4: back then. It's grown considerably over the last five years.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I assume the answer is five years. Yes, okay,
Speaker 2: And then where's your funding come from? Is it just
Speaker 2: come from labor unions?
Speaker 4: No, I mean it's in viros too. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: how they do their funding. But yeah, and we're just
Speaker 4: coalition members.
Speaker 2: No, No, right, you're the vice president of the organization. Right.
Speaker 4: Wow, the AFL is different. It's an umbrella of different
Speaker 4: labor unions. You know, it could be like the Postal Service,
Speaker 4: could be teachers there.
Speaker 2: Don't confuse me here. I'm just trying. What I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get in my arms around, and I want to
Speaker 2: do this with both of you. Is you're an officer
Speaker 2: in the New England for Offshore win coalition. I thought
Speaker 2: that's what if I misheard you, I apologize.
Speaker 4: No, I mean it's a it's a little different. It's
Speaker 4: just a little technicality. I'm sorry. I don't need to
Speaker 4: confuse it. You know, we're there's a steering committee of
Speaker 4: a few people, and then there's a bunch of different
Speaker 4: coalitions and businesses. Black Economic Council of Massachusetts. It's over
Speaker 4: one hundred one hundred uh businesses, labor associations.
Speaker 2: And organ Well, let me put it like this, who
Speaker 2: is going to build the turbines? Uh? Who's who's funding
Speaker 2: the construction of the turbines that your organization would advocate for?
Speaker 4: Uh? The developers would fund the projects and the building
Speaker 4: trades would provide the labor for those No.
Speaker 2: I get that. No, I I know the developers are
Speaker 2: not going to be out there in the water, trust
Speaker 2: me on that. So who are the developers? Uh?
Speaker 4: Well, n the developers to be just.
Speaker 2: To be to be candid, grant, let me, you know,
Speaker 2: let me go across to the table there. I assume
Speaker 2: there is significant business corporate interests here as well as
Speaker 2: you know, labor unions which would like to see people
Speaker 2: get jobs. I get that. So I'm just wondering where's
Speaker 2: the money coming from. Where's the money coming from labor unions?
Speaker 2: Is what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the labor unions are nonprofits that get
Speaker 4: paid by membership deduction.
Speaker 2: The labor unions were Grant, Grant, I get it. I'm
Speaker 2: a member of a labor union, a member of SAG
Speaker 2: after Okay, I've been a member of a labor brief
Speaker 2: over fifty years. Okay, so I know how that works.
Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to understand is who is behind
Speaker 2: the effort to build the turbines. The labor unions might
Speaker 2: construct the turbines, but where's the money coming from for
Speaker 2: the projects? Is what I'm asking? And if you don't know,
Speaker 2: feel free to tell me that.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I guess I got confused because I
Speaker 4: mean ratepayers say for the projects, for the developers to bid,
Speaker 4: and the developers put the money up front. A funding
Speaker 4: for our coalition would come from whatever money.
Speaker 2: I don't care about funding for the coalition. You're trying
Speaker 2: to do about answer my questions directly or maybe I'm
Speaker 2: not articulating them.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: That We'll come back to it. Okay, Dustin, how are
Speaker 2: you tonight? Dustin Delano of the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin,
Speaker 2: tell us about your organization. How long have you folks
Speaker 2: been around and how large is your membership and who
Speaker 2: supports you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I'm with the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association and
Speaker 3: we are a very new organization, very grassroots. We represent
Speaker 3: commercial fishermen all across New England, and any consumer who
Speaker 3: also wants to participate and be involved with us as
Speaker 3: well has opportunity to be members. We currently our membership
Speaker 3: is right around nine hundred active members and businesses. And
Speaker 3: like I said, we're spread out from Maine all the
Speaker 3: way through Connecticut and Rhode Island.
Speaker 2: So you're opposed to offshore wind far I assuming I'm
Speaker 2: aware of that, correct?
Speaker 4: We are?
Speaker 2: Yes? Okay? Why are you opposed to what? I'm sure
Speaker 2: the other side is going to say, natural clean energy.
Speaker 3: I think the primary reason for our opposition is that,
Speaker 3: you know, we represent the interests of coastal communities and
Speaker 3: and you know the fishermen that they depend on to
Speaker 3: exist and continue on in their their generational legacy, and
Speaker 3: offshore wind directly displaces all of those people wherever it comes.
Speaker 2: How close if you know, how close are some of
Speaker 2: the turbines that would be built, say off of Maine,
Speaker 2: which might affect you, how close are they to to
Speaker 2: not only fishing grounds, but how close close are they
Speaker 2: proposed to the coastline?
Speaker 3: So in the Gulf of Maine, they're they're further offshore.
Speaker 3: I think the closest, the closest commercial site is supposed
Speaker 3: to be around forty just over forty miles off shore.
Speaker 3: There is a test site being developed by the State
Speaker 3: of Maine which is about twenty miles off shore. And
Speaker 3: these sites are you know, it's not about how close
Speaker 3: they are to fishing grounds, it's that they are in
Speaker 3: the fishing grounds.
Speaker 2: So therefore residents are not going to I mean, the
Speaker 2: water is the horizon and the ocean is about sixteen miles,
Speaker 2: so if they're twenty to forty miles away, people are
Speaker 2: not going to see these from the shore. But you're
Speaker 2: saying it's going to affect the fishing grounds. What will
Speaker 2: it do to the fishing grounds?
Speaker 3: Well, that's still remains to be seen. But I can
Speaker 3: tell you that I've sat through I couldn't even count
Speaker 3: presentations that I've sat through in the last twelve years
Speaker 3: about offshore wind and what we talk about. What we're
Speaker 3: talking about in the Gulf of Maine specifically is floating
Speaker 3: offshore wind technology, and of course that technology is constantly changing,
Speaker 3: and when we have meetings, they they tell us that,
Speaker 3: you know, they the technology will be different when they're
Speaker 3: actually in the water than what may exist right now,
Speaker 3: which makes it even more difficult for us to have
Speaker 3: any type of conversation because we don't really know what
Speaker 3: these anchoring systems are going to be like and what
Speaker 3: these bases will look like. All I can speak to
Speaker 3: is different things that we've seen in the past, which
Speaker 3: have been like it's been presented as you know, giant
Speaker 3: cement floating bases the size of a football field with
Speaker 3: you know, eight hundred nine hundred thousand foot structures on
Speaker 3: top of them.
Speaker 2: Which will you say that they're not embedded in the
Speaker 2: in the seabad, you say that they're sitting on cement
Speaker 2: which is sitting on the seabed.
Speaker 3: They're sitting on cement which will be floating on top
Speaker 3: of the water column, and they will be anchored to
Speaker 3: the bottom. And the types of anchoring systems vary depending
Speaker 3: on who you talk to, but a lot of the
Speaker 3: original planning that was going on was for like three
Speaker 3: sets of anchoring systems for each turbine with chain links
Speaker 3: the size of a pickup bed and scope anywhere from
Speaker 3: seven to one or nine to one to the water death.
Speaker 2: We're going to Okay, I'm getting into the weeds a
Speaker 2: little bit there. Let me take a break. When we
Speaker 2: come back, I want to talk about the pros and
Speaker 2: cons of this and the success that we've had around
Speaker 2: New England so far, and of course we had the
Speaker 2: problems with the blades breaking off off the coast of
Speaker 2: Nantucket just a few months ago. We'll get to all
Speaker 2: of that, My guests on the line together and I'll
Speaker 2: have them at some point. They'll probably want to talk
Speaker 2: with one another. Dustin Delano, who you just were listening to,
Speaker 2: the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association and Grant Provost. He's
Speaker 2: with the New England for Offshore Wind Coalition. Or take
Speaker 2: a quick break back on night Side if you'd like
Speaker 2: to join the conversation. I'll tell you we're gonna have
Speaker 2: at least one more break, one more break before we
Speaker 2: get to phone calls. But if you want to get
Speaker 2: on the air and ask questions and make comments, the
Speaker 2: numbers are six, one, seven, two, five, four to ten
Speaker 2: thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back
Speaker 2: on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on DUMBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We're talking about offshore wind and let's talk from the
Speaker 2: perspective of a Grant provost who's with the New England
Speaker 2: for Offshore Wind coalition Grant, I'm going to ask both
Speaker 2: you and and Dustin to keep you your answers a
Speaker 2: little tighter because I want to make some room for
Speaker 2: some phone calls, which we'll start right after nine thirty.
Speaker 2: What's the long term benefit here if we put aside
Speaker 2: the environmental concerns and the fishing industry concerns. What's the
Speaker 2: payoff for people in New England and when will they
Speaker 2: feel that payoff? Assuming that you can proceed on the
Speaker 2: timeline that you would prefer.
Speaker 4: I think a big benefit will be state stability and
Speaker 4: electricity rates. They'll come in and they'll stay at a
Speaker 4: rate as opposed to fluctuating crisis with whatever happens geopolitically
Speaker 4: in the in the world. There'll be a war in
Speaker 4: Ukraine and you know, Russian oil won't be allowed on
Speaker 4: the market, and or Opak will make a decision that
Speaker 4: they'll hold back oil production and then prices will go
Speaker 4: up because of the cost when you have a lease
Speaker 4: area they've been in at a certain price.
Speaker 2: What sort of So would this be electricity and power
Speaker 2: just for New England or would you your companies that
Speaker 2: that you support. Will they be selling this product nationwide?
Speaker 4: I think when it gets on the bread, the electrons
Speaker 4: don't discriminate where they go. I mean, that becomes part
Speaker 4: of the overall package. But you know, it'll be a
Speaker 4: stable source of electricity for New Englanders.
Speaker 2: And I understand it's a fungible commodity. I do get that, okay,
Speaker 2: But the question is if we have turbines off the
Speaker 2: coast of New England impacting our fishing industry, are we
Speaker 2: going to incur a greater cost and inconvenience to provide uh,
Speaker 2: you know, stable electric rates for people in other parts
Speaker 2: of the country. Are we being asked here in New
Speaker 2: England to do more than we should? Give me A
Speaker 2: quick response to that.
Speaker 4: I would say, now, you know, it's all part of
Speaker 4: changing our energy source into something that's more climate friendly.
Speaker 2: So what the rest of the country is is your
Speaker 2: your focus is on New England. I get that, But
Speaker 2: is this happening yeah, all on both coasts, and is
Speaker 2: it happening in the in the the central part of
Speaker 2: the country. Obviously they're not doing offshore winter mines, are
Speaker 2: they win there's a lot of wind in places like Texas,
Speaker 2: Oklahoma and Kansas they can contribute as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of wind, and there's a lot
Speaker 4: of solar, especially in the southwest. California's going to do
Speaker 4: floating offshore wind. That's going to be similar here. And
Speaker 4: you'll have, you know, a thirty year lease at a
Speaker 4: set rate that they're going to be paying in so
Speaker 4: you'll have initial construction jobs as well. You know, all
Speaker 4: these jobs are going to be one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 4: a year jobs. Vineyard Wind created a thousand of them.
Speaker 4: We're talking ten million dollars economic output into family's pockets
Speaker 4: per year.
Speaker 2: Vineyard. Then you have the company that went out of
Speaker 2: that basically stopped the project. It was Vineyard Wind the
Speaker 2: project that has the problem with the blades.
Speaker 4: That's I mean, I'm not an exec for Vineyard Wind,
Speaker 4: are familiar with it, but you know, from what I've
Speaker 4: heard say, single blade a situation and they halted their project.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if it started up again, I believe
Speaker 4: you know, it would be a matter of time.
Speaker 2: That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, Dustin, let me come back
Speaker 2: to you. So Grant has just talked about the benefit.
Speaker 2: You know, it sounds to me like there I don't
Speaker 2: know if they're going to try to retrain you guys.
Speaker 2: Will this destroy the fishing industry? Is it just going
Speaker 2: to make your job a little tougher and everybody's got
Speaker 2: to sacrifice a little bit? What do you what do
Speaker 2: you say on to points that that grants us raised?
Speaker 3: I think that there are so many environmental concerns that
Speaker 3: are unknown that make it extremely difficult to predict what
Speaker 3: the for sure outcome will be. What I do know
Speaker 3: is that the spatial impact it does completely remove fishermen
Speaker 3: from any areas where you know, floating offshore. When technology
Speaker 3: is used, it's not possible to coexist in those areas.
Speaker 2: Can those areas be limited dust? And so that let's
Speaker 2: say it's a five mile square mile area that's limited
Speaker 2: and you've got the rest of the ocean. Is there
Speaker 2: is there any way to compromise her?
Speaker 3: So it's you know, we have a number of fisheries
Speaker 3: in New England. You know, we have what people hear
Speaker 3: most about is a lobster fishery, a trap pop fishery,
Speaker 3: but we also have a very large mobile fleet and
Speaker 3: those fisheries focus on very different types of bottom and
Speaker 3: so basically all the bottom out there is covered by
Speaker 3: some sort of fishery, and so when you start pushing
Speaker 3: people around and moving things around, everybody has to sort
Speaker 3: of overlap or or move and you can't just you
Speaker 3: can't just pack up and move somewhere else. I couldn't
Speaker 3: just haul on my eight hundred traps and steam east,
Speaker 3: you know, fifty miles and set them because that is
Speaker 3: area that is being utilized by other people in there
Speaker 3: just isn't there isn't space for us to be able
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, gentlemen, what's going to take a break here for
Speaker 2: the for the nine thirty news we come back. I'm
Speaker 2: going to ask the two of you to address concerns
Speaker 2: that each of you have just to try to get this.
Speaker 2: The conversation has been very good, and I appreciate both
Speaker 2: of you being gentlemanly here, which is great. Obviously there's
Speaker 2: a lot at stake. We'll continue with our conversation. We're
Speaker 2: talking about wind, offshore wind and its particular impact on
Speaker 2: the fishing industry here in Massachusetts. It is not an
Speaker 2: easy call to make. I'm sure we have two guests,
Speaker 2: dustin Delano, who you just heard is the is with
Speaker 2: the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association, and we're also being
Speaker 2: joined by Grant Provost, who is with the New England
Speaker 2: for Offshore Wind Coalition. We will have more conversation and
Speaker 2: if you'd like to participate, the numbers are six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four to ten thirty or six one seven, nine three
Speaker 2: one ten thirty. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside.
Speaker 2: I'll be back with my guests and maybe even some
Speaker 2: of your phone calls after.
Speaker 1: This Night with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2: Before we get to phone calls, let me kind of
Speaker 2: give a challenge to each of you, and that is Grant.
Speaker 2: Why don't you explain to Dustin why his business, his livelihood,
Speaker 2: has to stand down and allow these farms or wind farms,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call them be built. I think
Speaker 2: that you must recognize that although you have a lot
Speaker 2: of workers and probably you know construction people anxious to
Speaker 2: work out there on these projects, it is going to
Speaker 2: affect another branch of labor, and that's the fishing industry.
Speaker 2: What would you say to him if you were sitting
Speaker 2: down over a cup of coffee, well, for that matter
Speaker 2: of beer tonight, what would you say to him grant
Speaker 2: as well as you could.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you know exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 4: I mean, I reprospect that's in a lot he's He's
Speaker 4: an awesome advocate for his organization. I've seen him over
Speaker 4: the years, you know, grow into a really, really great leader.
Speaker 4: I don't think I would kind of sell him on that,
Speaker 4: you know. I mean, I share some of the same
Speaker 4: concerns he does for people's livelihood. And you know, I
Speaker 4: represent workers, and my workers stand to make a pretty
Speaker 4: good living, and we can take some people in from
Speaker 4: disengaged communities and a lot of people are going to
Speaker 4: do pretty well from how I work to represent my members.
Speaker 4: But you know, tell him I know how he should
Speaker 4: represent his or or anything kind of in that direction.
Speaker 4: I don't think I can do.
Speaker 2: So you have no option to say to him, hey, look,
Speaker 2: maybe this might be a career change for some of
Speaker 2: your guys. That there's nothing that you can say to
Speaker 2: him to even soften the impact of what this will do.
Speaker 2: I mean, this will have a very I assume you
Speaker 2: would admit this will have a huge impact on the
Speaker 2: industry that he represents.
Speaker 4: It's going to have impact, whether it's huge or small.
Speaker 4: I know I couldn't.
Speaker 2: I couldn't.
Speaker 4: I can't tell you there. I know it didn't work
Speaker 4: very hard on a building a state of Maine to
Speaker 4: push the area that any commercial project could be outside
Speaker 4: of lm A one, which is a lobster management area
Speaker 4: where a majority of fishermen work in the state of Maine,
Speaker 4: not all of them. But I would never intend to
Speaker 4: convents Dustin otherwise about his own industry.
Speaker 2: Enough, okay, that's an honest answer, Dustin, I'll turn the
Speaker 2: table on you and give you a chance to address
Speaker 2: Grant again. You're both people who have some disparate labor concerns.
Speaker 2: At this point, you're obviously concerned about your membership your industry.
Speaker 2: What would you say to or can you say anything
Speaker 2: to Grant Provost on the other side of the argument
Speaker 2: that might convince him that there's other avenues that that
Speaker 2: this fledgling industry of of of wind energy could I
Speaker 2: could look into and to help save many of the
Speaker 2: jobs of your members. What would you say to him?
Speaker 3: Sorry, I dropped off again there for a minute, wonderful
Speaker 3: service in Maine. Could you just repeat that really quickly.
Speaker 2: I'll try. I didn't realize you had dropped off. Okay,
Speaker 2: you heard what Grant said to you that pretty much
Speaker 2: there was not much he could say, and he represented
Speaker 2: it that he respected your position. I get all of that,
Speaker 2: and also said that he's representing certain members of people
Speaker 2: who will benefit workers who will benefit from the construction
Speaker 2: of of offshore wind projects. Conversely, your group of supporters,
Speaker 2: your membership is going to be adversely impacted. I think
Speaker 2: he said, you know. I asked him, and he said, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know by how much, but obviously it be
Speaker 2: an impact. He was pretty honest about it. What would
Speaker 2: you say to him again, as a fellow representative of
Speaker 2: families and of workers, is there any any any suggestion
Speaker 2: you can make to him that that maybe there's a
Speaker 2: there's an alternative course they can travel other than just
Speaker 2: plucking these uh these wind turbines in the area that
Speaker 2: you folks normally fish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's there's a lot there. But you know,
Speaker 3: I will say you probably didn't expect that Grant and
Speaker 3: I would know each other, but we have been on
Speaker 3: opposite side of this issue for a few years, but
Speaker 3: have been very cordial with one another and respectful of
Speaker 3: each other. But I you know, my association represents all
Speaker 3: different types of fishermen and so you know, when you
Speaker 3: look at it as a lobsterman who only fishes from Maine,
Speaker 3: there was some legislation that was crafted to minimize the
Speaker 3: impact to those guys, and we were part of, you know,
Speaker 3: pushing through, pushing that through and encouraging that to happen.
Speaker 3: But we also represent people who fish outside of there
Speaker 3: from other states, and people who you know, use mubile
Speaker 3: gear and all of that, and so we we we
Speaker 3: have held this strong position of opposing offshore wind because
Speaker 3: of the severe displacement that that will lead to for
Speaker 3: other fisheries in those regions. And aside from that, there
Speaker 3: are we have highlighted many environmental concerns which we just
Speaker 3: don't know enough information yet. Right, there's just been this.
Speaker 2: What percentage of your membership would be so adversely impacted
Speaker 2: by this that they would lose their livelihoods?
Speaker 3: Uh, I would have to say, you know that there's
Speaker 3: there's less people out there, so maybe twenty five percent.
Speaker 2: So if you have a membership of nine hundred people,
Speaker 2: twenty five percent of that is about two hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five jobs, two hundred twenty five livelihoods. Which cannot
Speaker 2: be minimized, but it doesn't destroy the fishing industry, is
Speaker 2: what I'm hearing you say. Am I misreading you?
Speaker 3: With the thing is that we just don't know. We
Speaker 3: don't know what the environmental harms will be. I mean,
Speaker 3: in order for these operations to exist in offshore waters,
Speaker 3: they need to have cooling stations, They need to have
Speaker 3: a lot of different things, which cooling stations, active heat
Speaker 3: exchanges for the cables, and they will dump millions of
Speaker 3: gallons of hot water back into the Gulf of Maine
Speaker 3: day after day after day. And all of these types
Speaker 3: of things are what we have raised concerns about, right
Speaker 3: and we don't know what that will do. We just
Speaker 3: know that, you know, certain species in the ocean don't
Speaker 3: appreciate ninety degree water.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, Grant, Let me let me have you
Speaker 2: if you could address those concerns. Those are some legitimate
Speaker 2: concerns that Dustin just raised. How How has have those
Speaker 2: addressed been addressed by offshore wind in other parts of
Speaker 2: the country. I assume the same issues would occur.
Speaker 4: I think we're in a fledgling kind of industry right now,
Speaker 4: and the only offshore wind projects are in the northeast
Speaker 4: currently right now, the Urmans themselves are air cooled, so
Speaker 4: less of a concern there. I think that the major
Speaker 4: concern would be around any type of substation at sea,
Speaker 4: possibly you know, cooling. For those not super on the
Speaker 4: technical aspect, says I'm not an engineer, but yeah, well okay, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and great, let me.
Speaker 4: I would say, you know, when these things go off shore, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know there. I mean I would be concerned about,
Speaker 4: you know, something being in the water for any period
Speaker 4: of time, you know, to gross things. It creates ecosystems.
Speaker 4: And with these uh arrays being so far offshore, different
Speaker 4: adverse weather, and you know, large fished populations in a
Speaker 4: new ecosystem could could raise a lever of a level
Speaker 4: of danger for the people who work the waters. That
Speaker 4: would be a concern.
Speaker 2: I would have. Okay, am, I to understand you, you correctly,
Speaker 2: granted you said that there's no offshore wind farms or
Speaker 2: turbines or whatever operationally anywhere in the country that we
Speaker 2: can we can draw history from, not off California off
Speaker 2: more temperate climbings.
Speaker 4: No, sorry, there's not in there's not in California, And
Speaker 4: there's Block Island Sound and they're fags six mega ones,
Speaker 4: so they're smaller than the ones that they're doing now
Speaker 4: for Vineyard with no sense station. So you know, Vineyard
Speaker 4: one is really the first commercial and then Commonwealth is
Speaker 4: or Revolution is next one of the two I can't remember,
Speaker 4: but yeah, these are the very first ones to get going,
Speaker 4: and they were the fixed modefile. We won't see floating.
Speaker 4: I don't even think we'll see floating in the one
Speaker 4: of the study.
Speaker 2: Okay. And then so, so you said that Vineyard one
Speaker 2: is the is the company that that I was trying
Speaker 2: to get at earlier tonight? Is that is that the
Speaker 2: company that's that's that's negotiating this with the legislature in
Speaker 2: in Maine or wherever else or with the federal government?
Speaker 2: Is it is the company called Vineyard one.
Speaker 4: Uh, well, it's Vineyard one, and Vineyard one is the
Speaker 4: fleece area they recently, I think Vineyard two they came
Speaker 4: in the try to stay solicitation with Connecticut where island?
Speaker 2: Okay, So so that's not the un company that that's
Speaker 2: the name of the geographic area.
Speaker 4: So Vineyard one was one day with Vineyard Wind and
Speaker 4: they are co developing it. I think it's aving Grid
Speaker 4: was in there with Copenhagen Investment Partners and they split
Speaker 4: that first project and then Vineyard One became its own entity,
Speaker 4: I believe.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now we're now we're getting down to who
Speaker 2: owns Vineyard.
Speaker 4: One Vineyard Wind after Wind developers.
Speaker 2: Okay? Is it again? The connection is not great? Are
Speaker 2: you saying Vineyard one of Vineyard Wind? If you could
Speaker 2: just spell it so I he can hear it? Correct
Speaker 2: win win Okay, who's the primary owner of Vineyard Wind?
Speaker 2: Is it a corporation? Is an LLC? I can handle it?
Speaker 2: Is the private individuals, it's a it's a corporation.
Speaker 4: Uh, it's a little tricky if I can just go.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not fully you know there. But so
Speaker 4: basically bo lease is an area, but they pay for
Speaker 4: the lease area and then they put their turbans, will
Speaker 4: say hey to construct inside of the lease area. And
Speaker 4: then it's it's for the state of Maine. The legislature
Speaker 4: directs the utility to precious power off them for a
Speaker 4: certain amount of years. So I'm a thirty year lease
Speaker 4: to sell power to rape painters.
Speaker 2: Get that? No, I get that. But again, the question
Speaker 2: that I think you're ducking on me, and I hope
Speaker 2: that you're not ducky intentionally. Is there has to be
Speaker 2: an individual and or corporation which which is probably privately held.
Speaker 2: These companies are not publicly traded, correct.
Speaker 4: Oh jeezus, I imagine some of them are in you know,
Speaker 4: like Vineyard, I don't think is publicly traded.
Speaker 2: But so you can you can't gear the name of
Speaker 2: you can't give me the name of one big investor.
Speaker 4: No as a developer.
Speaker 2: But some corporations are publicly traded, publicly owned. Others are
Speaker 2: privately owned, Okay, And people who own private corporations of
Speaker 2: this magnitude will stand to make an immense amount of money,
Speaker 2: much more money than all of the workers combined. Gentlemen,
Speaker 2: Gonna take quick break and if if someone out there
Speaker 2: wants to ask a question that I haven't asked, feel
Speaker 2: free six one seven two five six one seven nine.
Speaker 2: We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: During the break, my guest uh remaining with us, Dustin Delano,
Speaker 2: the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. He's concerned about the
Speaker 2: liveliheerds of Button nine hundred fishermen off the coast of
Speaker 2: fisherman families off the coast of Maine and grant Provo
Speaker 2: with the New England for offshore wind coalition. Vineyard one
Speaker 2: is jointly owned by two companies, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and Iberdrola,
Speaker 2: through a subsidiary of avan Grid Renewables. Copenhagen Infrastructure is
Speaker 2: as the world's largest dedicated fund manager within greenfield renewable
Speaker 2: energy investments and a global leader in offshore wind Okay.
Speaker 2: The company is privately held out of Copenhagen Debtmark, so
Speaker 2: it's a private company which the shares are owned by individuals.
Speaker 2: They're not offered to be traded publicly. They traded or
Speaker 2: exchanged privately, known as over the counter. It's interesting. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's some people here are going to make a lot
Speaker 2: of money, and it sounds to me like most of
Speaker 2: them are from Denmark. As a matter of fact, that
Speaker 2: the key people, which I assume indicates ownership, Jakob Barrow Lopoulsen,
Speaker 2: Christian T. Scott Bach, Torsten Luberg Schmid and Christina grumpscherp
Speaker 2: Shansen are the key people of Copenhagen infrastructure partners. I
Speaker 2: want to ask Grant Grant, why are they're not more
Speaker 2: American companies involved in this since it's going to be
Speaker 2: American jobs that will be lost in American waters that
Speaker 2: will be plumbed.
Speaker 4: Wells. Actually, the industry is a fledgeling right now. There
Speaker 4: are American companies that are learning and they're American developers.
Speaker 4: There's Americans working in Europe on offshore wind projects. For Dominion.
Speaker 4: It's not Dominion, I'm sorry, it's for Demi. It was
Speaker 4: like one of these international merchant marine companies. I basically got,
Speaker 4: you know, for the Dominion project their developer now and
Speaker 4: they've purchased some lease areas from other people. They have
Speaker 4: a large project in Virginia area. And then even Energy,
Speaker 4: which purchased two of the lease areas in the Gulf
Speaker 4: of Maine, is also a US based company. However, Denmark,
Speaker 4: the UK Norway they're first movers in this and they've
Speaker 4: been working on offshore why then, they have been building
Speaker 4: offshore wind farms in Europe for twenty years plus.
Speaker 2: All right, okay, well again, I thank you for your
Speaker 2: your candor. And it's a difficult situation for the first
Speaker 2: in Maine so let me give a final comment to Dustin. Dustin,
Speaker 2: make the case as best you can that the area
Speaker 2: that your fishermen conduct their business in needs to be protected.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you've gotten any support. I
Speaker 2: understand that there was a period of time where Donald
Speaker 2: Trump stopped some of this activity while he was president
Speaker 2: and then President Biden. According to some of the materials
Speaker 2: I'm looking at, while he was president. Well, there's an
Speaker 2: article here which on vineyard wind which I want to
Speaker 2: read very quickly, and that is a final environmental impact
Speaker 2: statement was released in March of twenty twenty one. Approval
Speaker 2: was delayed during the term of US President Donald Trump
Speaker 2: due to concerns regarding fishing in safety. That permission was
Speaker 2: fast tracked after Joe Biden took office. Final major federal
Speaker 2: approval was granted in May of twenty twenty one. Uh, Dustin,
Speaker 2: do you have more hope now that Donald Trump will
Speaker 2: will resume Uh, the the the White House, return to
Speaker 2: the White House, the that you're going to be treated better,
Speaker 2: the fisherman be treated better by Donald Trump than Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think if we go directly to the issue,
Speaker 3: a lot of us are familiar with you know, uh
Speaker 3: uh Donald Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan where he said
Speaker 3: that he would put a stop top for wind development.
Speaker 3: And so I think there are a lot of fishermen
Speaker 3: that have put a lot of hope in that, and
Speaker 3: you know, we we hope that those promises will be
Speaker 3: followed through. And if I may may just say one
Speaker 3: more thing too, you know, we have members who fish
Speaker 3: in those areas where Vineyard Wind is and even further
Speaker 3: south and west of there where there's other other turbines,
Speaker 3: and it's incredibly disheartening to them to be kicked out
Speaker 3: of areas or have areas, you know, the bottom and
Speaker 3: in areas completely altered, you know, with moving structures on
Speaker 3: the bottom and moving boulders and just you know, the
Speaker 3: areas that have been navigating for generations to be disrupted
Speaker 3: and the vessels that are in there doing the work
Speaker 3: are all foreign, are all flying foreign flags. That's incredibly disheartening.
Speaker 3: And on one other thing, if you.
Speaker 2: Don't mind, you got any quick here, because I'm running
Speaker 2: out of time very quickly.
Speaker 3: The Gulf of Maine, these areas in the Gulf of Maine,
Speaker 3: these leases went for fifty dollars an acre fifty dollars
Speaker 3: an acre for the ocean that we make a living from.
Speaker 3: One fish could be more than fifty dollars one haul
Speaker 3: of it, and that area went for fifty bucks.
Speaker 2: All right, gentlemen, Dustin Delano, thank you, Grant Provost, thank you.
Speaker 2: This is a tough set of circumstances, very important, competing interests.
Speaker 2: I tried to get two people who could have addressed
Speaker 2: it tonight. They both did very well representing their point
Speaker 2: of view, and I thank them for being gentlemanly and
Speaker 2: being constructive and advocates for their constituencies. Gentlemen, thank you
Speaker 2: very much. Thank you. All right, good night. We'll be
Speaker 2: back right after the ten o'clock news here on nights side,
Speaker 2: and we're going to maybe just relax a little bit
Speaker 2: and talk about how are you going to handle Thanksgiving
Speaker 2: dinner in your family? I mean, if there are people,
Speaker 2: and they probably are people in your family who voted
Speaker 2: in the presidential election a little bit differently, how can
Speaker 2: we both allow for conversation and make sure the conversation
Speaker 2: stays under control. How do we strike that balance. We'll
Speaker 2: talk about it on the other side of the tent.