Speaker 1: But this is from Digitalmusicnews dot com and I did
not know that this was going on, but apparently it's
been going on for a while. It says here Marathon
Chants the Rapper versus Pat the Manager. Dispute officially heads
to trial. Pat says he personally lost three hundred and
fifty thousand dollars plus running Chance the Rappers merch operation.
And it's funny too, because we were talking.
Speaker 2: Earlier about how artists make their money.
Speaker 1: How artists make their money on merch because touring, you know,
most of that money goes to you know, Live Nation
and whomever else. Right, they suck all that.
Speaker 3: Outtah and put all the diesel in the trucks, which
is probably really expensive these days.
Speaker 1: Touring is very cost prohibital. Oh seriously, in many ways,
a lot of a lot of artists ells, buses, TEP
a lot to it.
Speaker 2: You got to feed everybody.
Speaker 1: It's all very hard. So yeah, you got to make
that money on merch T shirts and you know T
shirts of course the number one itam at shows. But
apparently something has gone wrong between Chance the Rapper and
Pat the now ex manager. So it says here again,
this is from Digital musicnews dot Com, which, again, as
I mentioned earlier, a great website for music industry news
if you're interested in this. The USA versus Live Nation
antitrust trial isn't the only music music world legal battle
that's unfolding now. Chance the Rapper and Pat the manager
or ex manager have taken their long running contract dispute
to the courtroom. It says here we've been covering the
ugly clash of former friends and business partners. Chance was
like a brother to me in manager Pat Cochrane's Pat
Corkran's own words, for over half a decade, but the showdown,
technically consisting of a multimillion dollar commission complaint from Corkoran
and a distinct unjust enrichment action from Chance, just recently
headed to trial in Chicago. Unsurprisingly, then, Corkoran, during a
lengthy direct examination, discussed more than a few components of
his and Chances professional relationship. With the benefit of hindsight
and objectivity, we can see the association, though fruitful at
the outset, was seemingly destined to deteriorate in any event,
It says, as Corcoran explained on the stand, it was
his parents and members of Chances family, not the grown,
albeit young and inexperienced men behind the deal who'd initially
sorted the loosely defined details of the manager client arrangement.
Now right off the bat, before we go any further,
when you see loosely defined details of a manager client arrangement,
that you know there's going to be trouble because everything
has to be very clear and specific and written out,
and entertainment lawyers beauty talk about you've heard who oh well, sure, yes.
Speaker 2: Not in the contract. It's not there.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, it says here. Thrust into commercial
prominence following the release of Acid Rap, Chance opened for
high profile acts, including mac Miller, all while Corkran assumed
sweeping responsibilities and struggled to personally cover day to day expenses,
the manager said before the jury. Concerningly, Corkran also described
Chance's alleged unwillingness to sign agreements of any kind. Quote
he didn't want to sign or have you know, a
written agreement with anybody unquote, and reiterated that the artist's
music wasn't being monetized whatsoever. Quote. There wasn't even music
being commercialized unquote, even as he was performing on the
same stage as Macklemore and others. So that's a pretty
shoddy business here. The chance the rapper business is not
not so much. And uh, you know why Corkoran would
want anything to do with anybody who doesn't even want
to sign anything. A written agreement of any kind is
bizarre and not.
Speaker 2: Smart by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 3: I don't care if you're best of friends, bosom buddies
that grew up ever since you were in diapies together
from being little. Put it in writing. Put it in
a contract. Make it clear, Yes, what's your expectation, what
you're gonna do, what you're gonna get. If it's not there,
it doesn't exist. I don't care you shake a hand
on it. I don't care whatever that is that's not
gonna hold up when the when it comes down to it,
this money involved friends are no friends, married or not married.
Put it in writing because it's just better for both
of you. There's no question of expectations. It's clear, they're defined,
and if somebody doesn't kept it, keep up their end.
Speaker 2: You have a way of recourse and you're not just
out of everything. And especially you know, bands.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I think can fall victim of things like this,
because you have somebody that gets excited about your music
and they want they want to quote unquote help you,
and it sounds great up front, but they actually don't
have the wherewithal to bring it to fruition to make
it real for you, and then you're in this nasty,
horrible situation. You better off always putting everything in writing
and making it clear.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, absolutely Again, this is from Digital Musicnews dot Com.
It says on the label side, the alleged aversion to
signed and sealed contracts has not changed. Chance self released
last year's star Line that was apparently that's his newest album.
Building on this overview, Corcoran proceeded to explore how he'd
stepped well outside the confines of traditional managerial duties to
develop a hands on merch operation and later a radio
promotion strategy, and between manufacturing the actual merch renting warehouse space,
expanding the team on mid and influx of orders, and more,
he was quote losing his shirt on running the merchandise
operation unquote as it was hemorrhaging money. Fans placed nearly
ten thousand orders in the month after Chance in twenty
seventeen took home a trio of Grammys.
Speaker 2: Per Corkoran, you try to do too much for one person,
is this problem?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens.
Speaker 3: And you try to do that because you think you're
gonna save money, and you don't because it's just not
possible to keep up.
Speaker 1: And you try to do that because you think it's
all gonna pay off, right, because here you've got, you know.
Speaker 2: Like running a radio campaign. That's a lot of work,
it is, that's not I would know, Yeah, you would know.
Speaker 1: I watch you do it a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of work and a lot of
follow up and a.
Speaker 3: Lot of Right, there's a lot to it just doing that,
plus he's trying to set the venues. Plus he's trying
to make the t shirts and who's printing them and
where's the design coming from.
Speaker 2: That's too much. That's crazy to try and do that
all in one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you're better off Pirre and the pros
to do what you need him to do and then
bringing it in.
Speaker 2: You're going to spend less money in the long run.
Speaker 1: Right, Right.
Speaker 3: It sounds to me like they set them they set
themselves up for failure.
Speaker 1: Corkoran said, quote, I think it was like three hundred
and fifty four thousand dollars was the loss that I
took on operating the Chance Merchandise operation unquote needless to say,
revenue sharing agreement or not, this alleged loss wouldn't prove
an encouraging sign for any business partnership. Speaking of that
revenue sharing agreement, Corkoran also spoke of his commission fifteen
percent of across the board net earnings with a three
year sunset clause in his recollection for serving as Chances manager, which,
as with the rest of his testimony, will certainly factor
in to the remainder of the trial.
Speaker 3: Well, not a very good manager if he's going to
try and wear a zillion different hats and expect that's
going to work.
Speaker 1: I don't understand though, Oh this agreement with a three
year sunset clause? What so? Was that a verbal agreement?
Because Chance wouldn't sign anything, right.
Speaker 3: Unless he signed something. But it was so vaguely written
that maybe it sounds like it was just well it
was a good business sense, because these aren't.
Speaker 2: Good business mess Everything in vague.
Speaker 3: Discriminating, Like, how do you even enforce this contract? If
everything's well? I think I'll do this. Yeah, they set
each other up for failure. They really didn't, and they
backed obviously backed each other on what they thought they
were going to do. He fell short and couldn't handle
to do in the work of five different people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's what he's trying to do.
Speaker 1: It's a mess.
Speaker 2: It is a big mess.
Speaker 3: And I can't see that either one of them are
really going to come out winners in this.
Speaker 2: It sounds to me like everybody's.
Speaker 1: Going to come out at a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they're probably both going to be lucky
to walk away with anything in their bank accounts by
the time this is done. But he did it to himself.
I mean what manager does all? Like, really, do managers
really put all that up front?
Speaker 2: No, like they're.
Speaker 3: Gonna take all the money out of their own bank account.
They buy the T shirts themselves, they do all of that.
Speaker 2: But I've not heard of that.
Speaker 1: That's like nuts, that.
Speaker 2: Doesn't sound smart.
Speaker 3: Like I know that management companies might invest in in
like an album or something like that, but I've never
heard him to do everything like this.
Speaker 1: These people both sounds crazy, Like chance the rapper won't
sign it is a Grammy.
Speaker 3: When they made this agreement, was this like something in
the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Thing that maybe they're both severely mentally ill. I mean,
Chance the rapper sounds like he's got some kind of
well he sounds Chance sounds like he's crazy. This is
a Grammy winning artist, and he won't sign a contract
with anybody. He won't.
Speaker 2: He's eccentric, not crazy. Money.
Speaker 3: Remember when you don't have money, then you become crazy.
When you have money, you're eccentric.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't have any money, that's the thing. He's
got nothing to show for it.
Speaker 2: He spent it all trying to do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, what, well, no, is it sounds like Pat
the manager spent all the money. He spent his own money. Chance,
but what money did he get? This probably doesn't have
any money either. He can't sign a.
Speaker 3: Martelling because it's not being done right. Then, yeah, he's
not making anything.
Speaker 1: Nothing's being monetized correctly. Apparently.
Speaker 3: No, they're spending money. They're basically throwing money out the
windows here and there, and that.
Speaker 1: They just sounds like, I like they're both idiots or
they're nuts or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: These are not These are not uh, these are not
smart moves. These are not well adjusted humans.
Speaker 3: So the question is are they going to come out
of this with their shirts or are they going to
lose everything?
Speaker 1: Well sounds like Pat's already lost everything. He's three hundred
and fifty four thousand dollars in the hole.
Speaker 2: Interesting to see how this battle goes, though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know about any of this until this morning,
but this is very interesting.
Speaker 3: Right, and I want to know, like how much I
want to see more? Like what else did they have evidence? Rise?
Speaker 2: You know, who's going to win? Is someone going to
end up paying somebody else?
Speaker 1: Probably don't have that much evidence wise, if nothing was
written down because Chance won't sign a contract with anybody, well.
Speaker 3: Maybe not, because then if the manager's gonna have receipts
like I bought Chance the Wrapper Tree shirts, or I
bought Chance the Rapper bandanas, or you know, we pressed
X number of CDs. You know, if he's doing all
of that up front, he's gonna have receipts for everything
he put up front. But if he doesn't have a
contract that says he gets reimbursed and he's expecting to
just simply sell everything.
Speaker 2: To make him money somehow crazy? Yeah, that this is
not the way. Do not do as these people have done.
Speaker 1: A cautionary tale, although I don't think most people would.
I mean, this is just nuts.
Speaker 2: No, you would think in this day and age that
people would be.
Speaker 1: That's why I think they're both mentally ill.
Speaker 3: Smarter to put everything down and writing of what you're
going to expect, Yeah, you know, but in doing so
in detail, not just vague statements of we're gonna do merch.
That's too vague. It's gonna be we're gonna do two
hundred T shirts, or we're gonna do you know, five
thousand CDs, whatever it is. It's got to be specific
and spelled out, or you don't get a lay to
stand on. Yeah, you know, if you're expecting this person
to do all of this for you while you don't look,
which isn't smart. But if you don't want to look
and you just expect this person, he's gonna book all
your stuff, he's gonna do the photography, he's gonna get
the CD pressed, he's gonna do all you merch. He's
gonna do everything humanly possible except for spoon feed you.
And you don't want to pay attention to that, you're
kind of setting yourself up there that when you do
turn around and go, oh, no, I have no money.
Speaker 2: You know why?
Speaker 1: I just I still think they're both non composition.
Speaker 3: I feel like they were maybe I don't know where
they inebriated when they made this agreement, because especially anything
verbal in this day and age, you would think people
would know better than to do anything as a verbal contract. Right,
Like I said, I don't care if you've been bestie
friends since you were both little teeny babies and Diape
is running around looking for the you know how to
stand up and walk street. I don't care how long
you've known each other. You've put it in writing, spell
it out. It's just better for both of you. There's
no question you're both on firm foundation and you know
what your job is.
Speaker 2: You know what their job is.
Speaker 3: And what the expectations are going to be for the
end of the project. You know, it's just smart five minutes,
even if you write it out on a piece of
paper and sign it, it's better than any than nothing.
Speaker 2: You'd better to have a lawyer, but.
Speaker 3: You know in the pitch at least do that do
that so much?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: Well, I would think you would know better, Like you're
that big of a guy, and like, what about this manager?
How many artists has he managed? Does he do this
with other artists? Is this the only manager? Like where
is he in the management scheme of the world, right,