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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sekos. I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with as always my certified dance fabulous co host,

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mister Grant Hughes. It is time now that every team

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is played more than ten twelve games in the NBA

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season for a good old mega round of NBA fact

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or fiction. But before we get to that, mister Hughes,

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how the heck are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well and that's a fact. So check one

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of those off lifts I call bullshit doing terrible, Dan,

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I gotta talk about my feelings. How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I am fantastic. I'm a little tired, but no one

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cares about that I have. There's been some I guess

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NBA media members who have been on the East Coast

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recently and I have been talking about like how hard

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it is to cover. They don't know how people do it,

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And I was like, yeah, you're damn fucking right, Like

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it's about the time that we East Coasters received some

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acknowledgement for really making this work. You're welcome, Grant.

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Speaker 2: That the listeners probably couldn't audibly hear me rolling my eyes,

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but no, we did. West Coasters. We've got it so

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much better. Just time wise, it's like our late games

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are done at ten o'clock a lot of it.

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Speaker 1: I won't say the earlier ones though. That's why I

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would probably prefer Mountain time because then it's okay. The

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first game starts at five rather than four is pushing it,

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especially if you have a real job, Like four is

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kind of pushing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, but like, but then you're done nothing.

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Here's here's the hack. Here's the best thing when a team,

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when a game you really want to watch is that

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early game and you start you, you know, at the

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four o'clock for for for me, and you don't have

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to start it until say seven or whatever, because you

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know you're on League Pass and you can just and

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then you just breeze through that thing. If you're you

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could skip free throws and bang out a game in

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like fifty two minutes like easy, or even less if

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you if you're real handy with the skip button.

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Speaker 1: If this is what you do for a living, like you,

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the West Coast is definitely where it's like, it's.

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Speaker 2: Way more efficient.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I wanted to adjust ask you about or

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it's not even ask you because we both know how

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we approach this these are not statements that we would

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necessarily leave because we will call some of them fiction.

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So it's not we came into this and it's as

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an example, I really think that the Dallas Maverick should

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trade Luka Doncic. That's not one of them, but factor

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fiction if we propose that it's something we've either seen

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or a sentiment that's been flown around with. These are

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teams that were that people are generally concerned about. So

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that's how we frame this. Would that be an accurate

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way to put it? Grant that we're not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's somewhere between like a like a people are

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saying like prompt and also like a this at least

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war I mean, pull the veil all the way back.

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These are all just ways to like, let's let's have

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a discussion about a topic that, like Brooks like we

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should have a discussion about because it's not going to

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be None of these should be easily dismissed or accepted

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out of hand. I don't think that's that's kind of

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the zone we're going for.

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Speaker 1: Challenge accepted. I feel like I might we might have

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had one in there where people like what they is

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this on here?

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking of something that I proposed on Like,

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that's like a twenty five second conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's also if you want to really super peak behind

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the curtain, it's a way to cast a wide net

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without us having to. I enjoy those episodes, and I

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hope people enjoy them too, but without us regurgitating the

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every NBA team's something like every NBA team's fifth best player.

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Let's do that podcast? Do you guys want to hear

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that one ranking every NBA team's fifth best player.

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Speaker 2: Ranked.

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Speaker 1: We begin with a little Tyler Hero and Norman Powell.

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Grant you have no idea of the order because I

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did not give you an input before I made the

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screen assets. What the hell do we call the pictures?

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Whatever the VID? So you're not going to know you

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know what's coming right now. If you don't know what's

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coming next, that's very exciting, even though you know about

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all the topics we're going to discuss. So maybe it's

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less exciting NBA factor fiction. At least one of Tyler's

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Hero and Norman Powell is going to make a twenty

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twenty five All Star team. Mister Hughes, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, can we just talk about there we're having a

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shooting guard renaissance because both of these guys I think

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of as like pure twos, which feels like a dying

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breed of NBA player or it did over the last time.

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Speaker 1: Bring it back to right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, Bradley Beal having a great seat, and Two's

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are back, baby the twenty twenty four to twenty five

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the season of the two. Okay, this is on its face,

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this is kind of wild. Neither's been an All Star

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before normOn Palell has been a career six man hero.

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I think we you know, if you'd pulled people at

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random points over the last three four years, you probably

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would have said hero is also kind of a six

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man type, just because of the heavy offensive skewing game

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of his. Both these and this is just these guys

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are both if they make All Star teams. If one

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of them does, it'll be because of the offense. They're

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both averaged just under twenty four game. Both of them

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are making damn near half their threes. I think Pal's

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actually like in the forty nine percent and and Heroes

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way down there at like forty seven something. So the

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balls going in we've talked about. I think we have

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talked about the total shift and Hero shot diet just

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there out.

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Speaker 1: He's taken outside the paint all year.

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Speaker 2: He just doesn't shoot him. Yeah, it doesn't shoot him.

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Speaker 1: So he went from like they were over a quarter

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of his shot diet and now they're like four percent.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I mean like that's one of those things

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where when when you're we'll get to actually assessing this

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at some point. Just changing the shot diets one of

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those ways where you know, if you go into if

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it's preseason and you're like, what's this guy need to

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do to improve, and it'll be like, oh, tighten up

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his handle or like become a better three point shooter.

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Hero's proving I mean, the ball's going in a ton,

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but it's like, just don't shoot low expected value shots,

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and even if you're less efficient on the high expected

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value ones, you're gonna it like it's gonna come out

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in your favor. So yeah, like he they both have

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been just phenomenal scorers. Powell especially has just like just

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walking into threes now, just off the dribble threes. He's

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always been like a dangerous driver. So the question then is,

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I don't know if you want to split it by

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conference or it's like who's more likely just based on

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the numbers. Now, they're both in the top I think

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fifteen in scoring super efficient.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you one. Yeah, if you look at so

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they're both averaging about twenty five points a game. Twenty

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four point nine is what they're both at. So if

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you look at what their true shooting percentages have been,

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what they're both north of sixty five right now. So

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here's every player in the NBA averaging as many points

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as Tyler Hero and Norman Powell on as good or

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better true shooting. So we have Tyler Hero, Norman Powell.

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We've established this, Karl Anthony Towns, Nikola Jokic, Kyrie Irving,

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Kevin Durant, and Anthony Davis. I will take you one

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step further because I think this is going to answer

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what your question is too. The players who are then

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also doing this sufficiency and averaging five assists per game,

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Tyler Hero and NIKOLEA Jokic. That's it.

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Speaker 2: That's all.

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Speaker 1: This.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm leaning fact it's super early. They're not

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going to keep making in the high forties from deep

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just because nobody does unless you're Grayson Allen last year.

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I don't know who i'd pick as more likely. Are

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you with me that it's a fact because we're saying

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or not both one of these two guys is going

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to be an All Star.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go the West is just gonna

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be so difficult because I know Luca's kind of off

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to a slow whatever start, but just.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: No one's I'm saying, you have your Steph in there.

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I guess will John Moran not really be al? Kyrie

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Irving was having a good year now he's he's injured.

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The Mass is dealt with some weird injuries to all year.

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So it's maybe Norman Powell's chance of making it is

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higher than I'm as signing. So I'm gonna go fact here.

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But it does feel like just by virtue of Tyler

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hero being in the East, that he has the better

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chance of making it overall, I.

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Speaker 2: Think I would agree. I guess maybe just like a

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sub question that's got nothing to do with factor fiction,

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like which of these two guys do you think we'll

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finish the season with numbers closest to where they are now?

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Like wh Who's Like? I guess maybe this is like

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which one is a little bit more or less of

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a mirage than the other.

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Speaker 1: I probably would go with Norman Powell because his role

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is higher volume and he's taken some different shots. But like,

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this is someone who's always just been an incredibly efficient

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score for the moment was part where you and he

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like taking the right shots, and so Tyler Hero, it's look,

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one of the things he's done a better job of

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doing too, is it's not even just where you're shooting from,

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it's how you're shooting them. He is really I think

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he's still taking more pull up jumpers as a part

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of a shot died overall, but like the gap between

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those in the catch and shoots has shrunk substantially, and

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he is taking like more of his threes I think

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are catch and shoot threes than they are pull up

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threes at this point. He's always been relative league average,

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a really good three pull up three point shooter. So

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part of that is does he revert at all, especially

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if the heat wind up dealing with a Jimmy Butler

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or maybe a bam at of bioapsence down the line

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and they maybe need him to do a little bit

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more on the ball. So it's weird that I think

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Tyler heroes of right now might have a better chance

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of making an All Star team, but Norm Powell feels

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more real, if that makes any sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of thinking about it because in

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the context of Most Improved, because a lot of people

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are not a lot of people I've seen the case

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made that Powell is like the type of him provement

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that should get that kind of get that get consideration

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for that award. And I was going back and forth

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with being like, well, he's just playing like eight more

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minutes per game than last year. You know, it's all

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of his rate stats are way up. But it's like,

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how different is Norman Powell? Really? I mean, I think

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the size of his role is different that that, Like,

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that's it's not just more minutes. It's like he's way

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more important to his team's offense than he's ever been,

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and so that means more attention. And with coupled with

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like some of the gains and you know, off the

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dribble shooting and all this other stuff. He's He's a

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really interesting Most Improved case. It would be wild for

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a guy that finished top five and six Man of

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the Year the last two years, he's gonna get no

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votes for that because he's just gonna start all year

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to then go win Most Improved like that that doesn't

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happen all that often. So I think I like Powell's

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like sustainability a little more than heroes. But I think

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there's a good chance both these guys finished the year,

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you know, around sixty percent true shooting and averaging over

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twenty which is like, that's an eleite offensive player that

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you know, this sixty five percent on twenty five points.

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That like that's where Kevin Durant lives and basically nobody else.

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But they could both be you know, just give him

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a flat a grade as offensive players would I would

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believe that's sustainable for both.

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Speaker 1: So if you if both of them hold, though, do

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you think Tyler Hero has the better case to win

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Most Improved Player? Because watching the two, I feel more

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of a material change in the way that Tyler Hero

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is playing. But like there's something to be said about Okay,

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Norm Poalace's role is bigger, but more of his shots

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are self created than basically ever I think, and he's

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maintained this efficiency so and like you know, he's changed

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out like a lot of his three point attempts like Okay,

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you've shifted from some of the corner and like now

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you're taking more above the break ones. That would be

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an interesting discussion that I don't know whether I'm prepared

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to have at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm not sure I am either. I would

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just look at if you're most improved is so like

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who who knows what most improved criteria really is? I

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think if you're looking at the two of them together,

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you're noticing Heroes averaged over two twenty a game the

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last three years prior to this year, and has shot

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it like very very well generally speaking from threes, Like

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the thirty seven point eight percent is his lowest three

252
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point hit rate of the last three seasons prior to

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this year. So I could see the argument being like,

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he's just you know, he's gotten a little better. It's

255
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not the same thing as Powell, you know, jumping from

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the bench to the starting lineup and taking on this

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bigger role and being super efficient.

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Speaker 1: If very quickly. If the voting needed to be done today,

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are both of them all stars?

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Speaker 2: If it's today, then yeah, because just partly because you

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have so many guys that are hurt that you would

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normally consider.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how many people are going to be prepared

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to have this discussion, not only with the straight face,

265
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but like, no, this is like legitimately we need to

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consider this. It's like you don't just we're not like

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making him up. Would we just spent ten minutes on

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whether or Norman Powell is gonna be an All Star?

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I think that means it's time to move on, Grant,

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this is yours, even though you don't know it's coming.

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Speaker 2: All right, So we we got Jared McCain, the guy

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we just talked about at the exact right time last

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time we recorded or Steph Castle will win, will win

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Rookie of the Year? Factor fiction?

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Speaker 1: I mean, who who would you pick to win Rookie

276
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of the Year right now based on what we've seen.

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Speaker 2: If it's just the numbers, I think probably it is McCain.

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And then you got to think about two Memphis guys

279
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in Edie and Jalen Wells. Already, I mean, Edie was

280
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a pretty popular pick. Our guy, Read Shepherd not a factor. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: I said he was gonna run away with it, Grant,

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even though I was warned many times he wasn't gonna play.

283
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Speaker 2: You warned me when I said Shepherd was gonna be

284
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so he'll be undeniable. Like you're like, oh, there's a

285
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lot of guys on the rockets that need to put

286
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shut up. Dan, He's super good, he's gonna play now.

287
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You're right, Uh, I mean it's McCain now, isn't it?

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Like if you if you're picking today, it's him. The

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question is just like, are we gonna see Reesa che Sar,

290
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Probably not Shepherd, you know, whoever else you want to list,

291
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because we are like a dozen games into the year.

292
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So so that's that's that. That makes it a little

293
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tough for me. But I don't have any doubt that

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if it's today, it's just I think it's just McCain.

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Speaker 1: I think you're probably right. I included Steph Castle though,

296
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because I've been very impressed by the defense and I

297
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think he's shown some playmaking flashes. I have very little

298
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confidence in the shooting coming around. And so if your

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Rookie of the Year case is kind of built on

300
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your playing, you're defending your ass off, and like the

301
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passing is progressing, he probably needs to make more strides

302
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as a score to be thrown in this. But I

303
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actually think I included him, So I don't think people

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are talking because there's a chance that he's just been

305
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a top five rookie. So I mean the Jaalen Wells

306
00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:38,960
of it all, Zachary rech Cha's been gonna have Keyshawn George. Actually,

307
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,519
not enough people are maybe talking about Steph Castle's defense.

308
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Speaker 2: I think that's fair. This is an unfair question because

309
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it's been difficult from the moment he was a prospect.

310
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But like, do you have any better sense of like

311
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a good comp for Castle or like what kind of

312
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player this guy is gonna be, because coming in, you

313
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know it's I'll never get it out of my head.

314
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Somebody said, like he's kind of an Igodala type, and

315
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,759
I haven't seen that, but that's like, well, if that's

316
00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:04,360
a cat in it for me, it's like, please give

317
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,000
me all the Iguadala types. Is he a point guard?

318
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,960
The shooting makes it hard to use him for a

319
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,840
major on ball roll because they'll just get ignorbs ditover

320
00:14:12,919 --> 00:14:15,600
off ball, but the defense is real. I just I'm

321
00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:19,480
still struggling to decide like what I think he is

322
00:14:19,639 --> 00:14:21,879
other than just like a guy that guards his ass

323
00:14:21,879 --> 00:14:24,000
off and plays hard and if he learns to shoot,

324
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then we're talking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like he's had games, but I don't

326
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,399
know how much this matters. We've had games where we've

327
00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:31,799
seen him take I think he took I want to say,

328
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:34,120
he takes seven against the Jazz the other day and

329
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,080
he made three of them, So like you have, like

330
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,600
he's getting them up. There's value in that. And he's

331
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at over three on the season and under twenty five

332
00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,720
minutes per game, so I think there's value in taking it.

333
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But to be below seventy percent from the foul line.

334
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,799
I look at him, I don't know if he's what

335
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,720
do you think about like pre injury Sean Livingston?

336
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:54,919
Speaker 2: Is that true?

337
00:14:55,559 --> 00:14:57,639
Speaker 1: Or would it he post injury Sean Livingston has been

338
00:14:57,679 --> 00:15:00,000
like who's the better athlete? You would have to go

339
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,080
with if it's if it's pre injury Sean Livingston, then

340
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,200
maybe it's post injury Sean Livingston's the better.

341
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 2: Comp Maybe maybe I'd love to see if.

342
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: Former Warriors we can compare them.

343
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, is he really kind of more of a Macaw

344
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:20,360
or Jacob Evans? That's interesting on McCain so a lot

345
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of so just see I was I can't we have

346
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to talk about the numbers the last three games as

347
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,240
we're recording this, twenty seven points, twenty three points, thirty

348
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,279
four points and ten assists that most recent game against Cleveland.

349
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So like we're not messing around a lot of this

350
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:36,320
is he's got opportunity. He's played over thirty minutes per

351
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,360
game in his last four. He got to start finally

352
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:40,720
against the Cavs, and that they lost. But you know,

353
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,679
that's just what happens when you don't play any of

354
00:15:42,679 --> 00:15:46,320
your guys because they're all hurt or load managed. Maybe

355
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the question is, is McCain, assuming, assuming the Sixers are

356
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,519
ever healthy, is his role gonna stay big enough?

357
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Speaker 1: You know?

358
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,159
Speaker 2: And I think he's played well enough so far to

359
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,200
suggest that, like you probably just need to play him

360
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,879
over your Eric Gordon's or whoever. That that's because because

361
00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:06,879
that's how he loses this, because he's been the best

362
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,799
rookie or among the best rookies statistically so far, big role,

363
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,519
getting lots of shots up, inefficient, showing more on ball

364
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:17,360
stuff than maybe it was expected he'd have. Can he

365
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,399
continue to play enough if and when the Sixers have

366
00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:24,159
bodies out there? I'm inclined to say like, I just

367
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:26,919
don't think you diminish this guy's role anymore than you

368
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,080
have to. He's shown enough so far that like, why

369
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,120
wouldn't you want this guy on the floor, right?

370
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:33,879
Speaker 1: And I think also what helps his case is I

371
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,320
maybe they're gonna run into the existential dilemma of do

372
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,440
we think we can play him in Tyre's MAXI together?

373
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:41,919
And then I guess you would just go with embiid

374
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,440
George and I'd assume cayleb Martin or is there someone

375
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,200
else you've traded for at that point? But like when

376
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,120
you look at I think what helps him is look

377
00:16:49,159 --> 00:16:50,919
at kind of the way some of the other guards

378
00:16:50,919 --> 00:16:53,919
have played so far. Okay, Kyle Lowry is shooting thirty

379
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,600
eight percent or whatever from three, but he has not

380
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,799
necessarily looked great. Eric Gordon has certainly not looked to

381
00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:01,639
rate Reggie Jack and isn't part of the regular rotation.

382
00:17:02,159 --> 00:17:05,599
So the fact that I guess the other guards haven't

383
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,440
played well enough to usurp him if he were just

384
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,519
looking at the secondary rotation, maybe that bo as well

385
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:12,839
for him. I think a lot of it might come

386
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:14,000
down to it. I think he's put up more of

387
00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:17,240
a fight on defense than I was expecting, which is

388
00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:19,720
why so the comp I gave for him, by the way,

389
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,880
was it's like hit Desmond Maine and Tante Givincenzo merged

390
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,759
into one player, is what It kind of feels like.

391
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 2: That's that's like this. You get the size right because

392
00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:33,400
McCain just he's one of those in betweens like, oh man,

393
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,400
that's good size if he were a pure point guard.

394
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,759
But as a as a wing player, it's I don't know,

395
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:40,119
And that's kind of where Devincenzo lives. Although Devincenzo is

396
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,519
a sneaky six five, I think he just doesn't play.

397
00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:46,880
Doesn't seem like that. Yes, we haven't weighed in. Is

398
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,160
factor fiction? One of these two guys is gonna win

399
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:50,799
Rookie of the Year.

400
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,319
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say fact. As a way of Jim McCain's

401
00:17:54,319 --> 00:17:57,839
been great, but also just kind of acknowledging my concerns

402
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,599
with Steph Cassel. I guess making an packed right out

403
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:02,880
of the gate may have been overblown. Again, I don't

404
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,559
know what to make of the shooting. It's cool when

405
00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:05,880
he has a two for five night, or like I

406
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,960
said to whatever was three or seven against the Jazz

407
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,200
and there's also just his finishing has been pretty good.

408
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,599
I thought as a rookie, there's like when you say,

409
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,720
like Wemby like him kind of screening for Wemby and

410
00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:16,680
then rolling and like he's able to fit. Like that's

411
00:18:16,759 --> 00:18:19,039
just like super fun to watch. So I'm gonna say

412
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,480
fact just because I want to speak it into existence

413
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,759
that I think Steph Castle is having Even if I

414
00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:25,119
think you look at the Efficien scene, there will be

415
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,480
a lot of people are like, no, no, no, But I

416
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,359
think he's having, at least, by the eye tests a

417
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,400
better season than people are talking about.

418
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,400
Speaker 2: Just to be just to be contrarion, I'll go fiction

419
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:35,000
because that way I just get the field.

420
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: Who's the pick? Then we need to hear it right.

421
00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 2: Now, Resache. I believe in the shot and he's gonna

422
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,839
get opportunity. I don't know, Like if we come back

423
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,160
to this in like I don't know, three more weeks

424
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,839
and McCain is still just playing thirty plus minutes a

425
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,519
nine and scoring like this, then I might have to

426
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:53,359
change my tune.

427
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 1: Well, I might also ask who else on the sixers

428
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:56,640
are still injured?

429
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 2: If that's that's true, everybody next up?

430
00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:07,640
Speaker 1: Grant the NBA MVP race is already over because oh

431
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,160
g Anobi is one. No, because Nikoliokic has won it.

432
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,799
This is this man is unbelievable. This is he has

433
00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:20,240
won three MVPs. And you get to a point and

434
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,079
I think we've reached it with Giannis where Okay on

435
00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:27,880
certain nights, like when he drops fifty against the Pistons, it's, oh,

436
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,640
he can still surprise you. But you look at it

437
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,599
and you say, like you're numb to a lot of

438
00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:37,720
what happens. And then yet with Nikola Jokic, there's just

439
00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:40,640
like you can't get numb to him because he's doing

440
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:46,799
something every night that is so utterly ridiculous. And I

441
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,039
put this on Blue Sky the other day. Is has

442
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,759
anyone ever in the same season won the scoring title,

443
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:56,119
the rebounding title, in the assist title. I'm asking for

444
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,440
nikol Jokic. This dude leads the league in rebounds and

445
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,960
assists and he's like third or fourth in scoring. And

446
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,559
even as some of the Nuggets his kids have upticked,

447
00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:10,440
the Nuggets are still just more dependent on him than ever.

448
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:14,480
He's logged thirty nine minutes or more five times this year.

449
00:20:14,519 --> 00:20:16,960
Grant too many of those games he had last year,

450
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,119
all of last year seven. This dude is an iron man.

451
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,559
This is someone who's had deep playoff runs. They won

452
00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:25,640
the title not last year, but the year before. He

453
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,200
was carrying a team when Jamal Murray and Michael Porter

454
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:30,640
Junior were missing time. Now he just carries the team

455
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,319
even when Jamal Murray's available, apparently, and you're just looking

456
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,920
at what he's doing. He's hitting his threes at an

457
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,279
astronomical clip. His two point percentage is dipped. Hey, but

458
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,160
guess what grant that still means he's shooting north of

459
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,799
fifty five percent on them. I just I look at him,

460
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,000
and we can use we love the net rating swings,

461
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,599
it doesn't. You could filter it by playing time. I

462
00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:53,440
don't care context. Nicola Yokis just leads it. The Nuggets

463
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,000
are about thirty points per one hundred percent is worse

464
00:20:56,279 --> 00:21:01,359
when he's off the court. There is belief that we've

465
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,799
reached the point of voter fatigue with NIKOLEA. Jokic, And

466
00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:08,079
if you feel that way after watching the first part

467
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,880
of the season, I really hope you do not have

468
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,720
a vote, because there is no one else that you

469
00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:16,880
could make it. If the Bucks were good I think

470
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,200
Giannis on an individual level, probably comes closest to having

471
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,480
a case. I think you could throw Shay in there.

472
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,759
Kevin Durant I thought had a very strong case before

473
00:21:24,759 --> 00:21:26,200
he was gonna miss some time with a cash straight.

474
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,519
I'm sure maybe he'll creep back in there. But like,

475
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:32,640
this is fucking wild. This is someone who is the

476
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,279
Nuggets are not. I don't feel the record and all,

477
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,319
I don't want to say it, feel worse about the

478
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,559
Nuggets than ever. I will say they feel less convincing

479
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,839
than they did a couple seasons ago. Maybe that's my

480
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,720
bias against young players. Yes, I know, Christian Brown might

481
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:49,279
get most Improved Player votes, YadA ya, YadA, fun, fun, fun,

482
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,440
But he is literally the one man difference separating a

483
00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:57,400
championship contender from probably one of the worst teams of

484
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,240
all time. And I don't think there's another player in

485
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:03,599
the league that you can even come close to saying

486
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:04,480
that about right now.

487
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 2: I would I mean, I would go I would flip

488
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:10,200
it the other way and say, like make the argument

489
00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:13,759
against him right, like, what what possible case could you

490
00:22:13,839 --> 00:22:18,200
make against Jokic today? Right now? And we're projecting forward

491
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,720
several months just being the best player in the league

492
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,920
and therefore deserving of MVP. Like you can pick knits

493
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,440
with every other candidate. I mean, Anthony Davis is a

494
00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:28,279
name we do that that I you know, we both

495
00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:30,400
have talked about early in the season as a candidate

496
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:35,960
great like atom can't find anybody that has. And these

497
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,440
are the these are the two prongs of the MVP case,

498
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:39,920
like how much do you We're trying to figure out

499
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,680
what valuable means? How how much do you mean to

500
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,039
your team? Nobody means more than Yokic. And then if

501
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,440
it's just show me the box score, nobody's better than Jokic.

502
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,119
So just like you can knock, oh, Luca's not making shots,

503
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,799
the defense is still iffy. Whatever I guess you'd say, oh,

504
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,839
Jokic's defense is still you know, break even at best

505
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,400
or whatever might either stage better than that.

506
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: I would, honestly, I would go as far as asay,

507
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,000
I think it's been substantially better than that.

508
00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:09,079
Speaker 2: No, I'm playing devil's advocate, like I'm trying to imagine

509
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,000
the arguments that you would make against him being the MVP.

510
00:23:12,519 --> 00:23:15,599
I think the thing that we just aren't, the vote

511
00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:18,319
of fatigue thing is real it sucks. I think in

512
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,119
hindsight it might feel like a mistake that he didn't

513
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,440
win it two years ago and that we're not talking

514
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,480
about a potential five straight MVPs for him, that he's

515
00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:32,200
the MVP if he stays healthy. And that's the other thing,

516
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:35,480
like we're less concerned about him getting hurt than knocking

517
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,279
on everything right now than literally any other candidate. So

518
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:41,880
it's just like, I don't know what the odds are,

519
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,559
but I it's like a Jokich or the field at

520
00:23:45,559 --> 00:23:47,599
this point, and I was like, I just took the

521
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:49,119
field in the Rookie of the Year thing. I just

522
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,440
think I would pick Yokic. I just don't see anybody

523
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,079
else that has anything close to the same chance as him.

524
00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:57,079
Speaker 1: So I guess with you, And I don't mean to

525
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,480
declare it already over when the Nuggets are whatever ten

526
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:04,119
games ended season, but for someone to catch him, what

527
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,039
needs to happen, And don't let's not throw injuries out there?

528
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,400
Is it? Like, so the Nuggets are fourth in the

529
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,079
West right now as we record this, if they drop

530
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,839
off of that, but it's not necessarily hit like the

531
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,400
numbers are still incredit Does he have the ability to

532
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,359
win it if they're like sixth or seventh in in

533
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,440
the West, if they again, if they fall that for which,

534
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,440
by the way, this is part of his MVP case

535
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,000
right now they haven't all right, almost entirely because of.

536
00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: That is that is how he could lose it, And

537
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,240
it would be bullshit because there's no argument that if

538
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,200
the Nuggets are underwhelming, oh they are a five hundred

539
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,839
team the rest of the way or whatever, and they

540
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,039
don't finish like they're they're seventh in the West, eighth

541
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:46,519
in the West, which is below it's like the Westbrook line,

542
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,680
Like you know, what, were the thunder sixth the year

543
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,240
he won the MVP, Like that's kind of our that

544
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,359
that seemed like, oh my god, but the numbers seemed

545
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,079
undeniable at the time. I still don't think he was

546
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,680
the MVP that year. That's another conversation, Like you won't

547
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,079
be able to make the case that the Nuggets struggling

548
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,200
has anything to do with Jokic. What you'll be able

549
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,480
to say is like they would have won twenty games

550
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,000
this year without him, you know, like that they won

551
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,720
forty one is incredible, Like that he got them twenty

552
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,039
plus win So yeah, I think that'd be the case

553
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:19,000
you'd make is if the Nuggets aren't good enough as

554
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,799
a team. We all care about team performance and determining

555
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,880
value of an individual player, but there's not gonna be

556
00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:28,799
a connecting art line between the Nuggets underperforming as a

557
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:32,160
team and Jokic, Like it'll be the opposite. It'll be like,

558
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,480
it's incredible they were this good and he's the only

559
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:35,400
reason why.

560
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: I as someone who was skeptical over the Nuggets this year,

561
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,880
I just can't and even never skeptical about Nikola Jokic,

562
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,000
but wondering what their ceiling could be even with Pete

563
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,359
Nikolea Jokic, and it's their ceiling might just be winning

564
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,759
a title. He's gonna be this good, yeah, And I mean,

565
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:52,839
like I know they still had their issues. They're gonna

566
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,079
need more from a healthy Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Junior.

567
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:57,519
He's come around, Like you're gonna need him to be

568
00:25:57,599 --> 00:25:59,480
more consistent on the defensive end. Aaron Gordon needs to

569
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:03,039
get out. But even the anecdotal stuff is being set

570
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,079
up for him to win the award because it's like,

571
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,359
just throw the numbers out of the equation. Now, Aaron

572
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,240
Goran is miss time Jamal Murray is banged up and

573
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,519
is not He's continued to be uneven. And yes, okay,

574
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:17,880
some of the kids, especially Christian Brown, are playing extremely well,

575
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,960
and like you've gotten some really good traction out of

576
00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:23,200
Julian Strawther and Peyton Watson's even shooting thirty nine percent

577
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,759
of his hitting thirty nine percent of threes. Excuse me,

578
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,599
but you look at it and you say, oh, so

579
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,519
the Nuggets are relying on three Christian Brown is probably

580
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:33,920
more of like someone who is a known quantity, but

581
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:37,000
you're relying on a lot of people, including Westbrook and

582
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:39,240
even some Hunter Tyson. And by the way, oh, your

583
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:42,359
backup center rotation is still dog shit because for some

584
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,519
reason we gave Darios Sorr it's the mini mL E,

585
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:46,920
since apparently we just give that out like cantonies that

586
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,359
we can train a bunch of picks to wash it

587
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,240
off later picks that they currently do not have. I

588
00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:53,359
digress on that though, but it's all setting up to

589
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,799
where these are. I just rattled off a bunch of

590
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,240
reasons without going some on why things could have just

591
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,759
gone so wrong for the Nuggets, and there would have

592
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:02,720
just been built in excuses and the blame would have

593
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,599
fallen on maybe Michael Malone, but probably Calvin Booth Moore

594
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,480
than anyone or the ownership whatever, And it's just like, no,

595
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,559
you're winning in spite of this. Jokic is dominating and

596
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,000
you have a better record than teams that a lot

597
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,559
of people thought were just like Minnesota Dallas, they're struggling

598
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:19,599
out of the gate. And again the Nuggets haven't been perfect,

599
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,640
but they've won games. And Joki is just like the

600
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,839
fact that he is mate might average over thirty points

601
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:28,119
per game or is in because the players averaging more

602
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,039
than him right now are Giannis Anthony Davis on the

603
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,319
Melo ball and that's it. And it's just we don't

604
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,920
think of we know Jokic can score. He's one of

605
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,039
the most by the way, over the past half decade

606
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,200
if you view it in some I'm not sure there's

607
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,559
been a player who's just more clutch, Like when you

608
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:43,559
look at actual crunch time numbers and him, we.

609
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: Have those clutch points this year. He's number one in

610
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,200
clutch points this year. So like, if you're talking about

611
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,079
like who impacts winning, that was a lot of the

612
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,119
Roughs case years ago, is like look at his clutch,

613
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:56,039
like he won them five or six games down, you know, down.

614
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: The stretch, like and Goody and Denver. Do you remember

615
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,160
that shot that was like they've I wasn't the framing

616
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:02,839
the night the MVP race was.

617
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:08,519
Speaker 2: Over right, I think last thing, it's just Jokic and

618
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:10,119
this isn't. I don't know if this is like a

619
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:13,279
conventional way to make the MVP case, but it appeals

620
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:17,039
to me, like he just sets your team's floor so

621
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,880
much higher than everybody else does, right because like it

622
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,720
doesn't to a greater extent than any other player. It

623
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,039
doesn't matter who his teammates are. If he's playing, you

624
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,440
just have a chance to win because he can just

625
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:32,799
completely control the game in ways that no one else can.

626
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,200
And like you obviously look at the floor the Bucks

627
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,759
have Giannis, this is a low floor right now. As

628
00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:41,839
good as he's been, he just doesn't make everybody else

629
00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:44,960
the best version of themselves like Jokic does. He's not this,

630
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,720
he's not the world's like comfiest safety blanket like Jokic is.

631
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,559
It's just you. You can't be bad if he's out there,

632
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:54,680
and that's not true of anybody else.

633
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: It's and it feels such like a blasphemous thing to

634
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,759
say in the vacuum, but I'm going here for a

635
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,440
thirteen second. The MVP race to me is just is

636
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,039
over and you're gonna have to I need you to

637
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:10,039
outline the case. Oh, I would say, I don't ascribe

638
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:11,799
to this case, but if you are someone who has

639
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,519
just always gone with the best player on the best team,

640
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,559
that is the only thing that can undermine Jokic's case

641
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:19,920
at this point, because again I don't agree with it,

642
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,160
but if that's just how you view MVP, okay, fine,

643
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,240
well then it's gonna go to Shay at that point,

644
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:28,759
or it's gonna go to dot Darius.

645
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,519
Speaker 2: I'd congrats Darius Garland MVP. If you're a best player player.

646
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: That would be an interesting discussion to have, though if

647
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,640
there was just like, well, actually, we might be having

648
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,680
it soon. So I'm gonna go fact here. You're going

649
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,279
fact as well?

650
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, got to.

651
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: What are we up to? Grant? Oh?

652
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: Flick of this? Darius Garland, Dan is the Cavs MVP,

653
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,279
just Calves MVP non league wide. Uh, I'm gonna make

654
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:52,279
an all NBA team factor fiction.

655
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:54,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to go fact again, but I have

656
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,240
to go fact here, he has been bawling and he's

657
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,880
not gonna have the same scoring numbers as Donovan Mitchell,

658
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,519
but he is very much driving the offense. And we

659
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:06,640
did a deeper dive on Darius Garlands. We don't have

660
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,160
to go too much into it, but he's shooting over

661
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,000
sixty percent on drives. His passing out of them is better,

662
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,160
his finishing is better. He looks not only do the

663
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,039
craftier on the ball, he looks a lot faster on

664
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:20,240
the ball, so he's getting around guys and that sets

665
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:22,559
up not only his finishing, but it helps set up

666
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,680
the playmaking that he's doing. The shooting on the ball,

667
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920
off the ball, off the charts. That in turn opens

668
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,839
things up for both Donovan Mitchell, for Evan Mobley, for

669
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,519
the Cabs to get away with how they sometimes space

670
00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:36,519
out Jared Allen and or Evan Mobley depending on what

671
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:40,079
the set's going to look like. This is, you know,

672
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:44,240
the spicier thing might be, is there a debate to

673
00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:45,759
where you say, well, who's been the Cavs and the

674
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:47,559
most valuable player this year? And we don't want to

675
00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:50,519
create strife from within because the Calves are just rolling.

676
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,599
But to me, he's been their MVP, and I don't

677
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,119
want to say it's not close, and I really do.

678
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,200
We talked about Evan Mobley's growth again, go back and

679
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,599
check that episode we did like four minutes on the

680
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,480
Calves or whatever it ended up being. But like the

681
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:05,400
mobiley stuff, a lot of it's been opened up because

682
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,799
of what you could do with Darius Garland away from

683
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:10,799
the ball, and I just to the extent to which

684
00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:14,119
before I throw to you that Darius Garland feels like

685
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,519
he's driving what the Calves do on offense despite Donovan Mitchell,

686
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:20,400
I think being better at let's call it reading the

687
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,920
room on a functional basis, knowing what they need from

688
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,440
him on a given night, or like how much does

689
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,200
he need to dominate the offense on this possession that possession?

690
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,200
And then Evan Mobley just really as a driver, as

691
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,720
playing more physically as someone like doing the face up stuff.

692
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,119
All great, and you could make a case that Evan

693
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,920
Mobley and nor Donovan Mitchell are all NBA candidates as well,

694
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,400
But I look at Darius Garland as just the one

695
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,400
who's driving more value for Cleveland right now.

696
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:48,559
Speaker 2: Anybody, Yes, Yeah, I think there is a legitimate debate

697
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:50,960
to be had just because Mobley and Mitchell have both

698
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,279
been so good, and then you can't you can't talk

699
00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:55,839
about the Cavs success without going like Carosel Vert is

700
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:58,200
playing about as well he's ever played. TI Jerome is

701
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,079
definitely playing.

702
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,039
Speaker 1: Apparently the most efficient picking roll ball hand.

703
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,759
Speaker 2: Learned basketball and is like a good defensively somehow now

704
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:07,759
like is getting steals that just contributing on both ends.

705
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,480
Also incredible health up and down the Cavs like top

706
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:11,279
what eight guys?

707
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: No, No, Max Drews hasn't played well.

708
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: I didn't even think about Max's. We're talking about the

709
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,200
guys you know. Mitchell, Nobile, Garland, Allen have all played

710
00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:23,799
every game so far. Same with the Korro, same with Niang,

711
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:27,279
same with Jerome, sam Merril's played twelve, Wade and Laverta

712
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:30,400
played eleven, Like yeah, and then like yeah, where does Streuce? Sorry,

713
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,039
Max Streuce, I don't know what we do with you now?

714
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:38,240
I feel okay saying it's fact that Garland has been

715
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:40,160
the Cavs MVP and that he's gonna make an All

716
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,599
NBA team. I think it's for me. It's more just

717
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,400
like and we can move on from the Factor fiction portion,

718
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:51,240
Like isn't it great though that we can like wash

719
00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:53,359
off the like, Oh my god, what the hell happened

720
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:55,279
to Darius Garland? Remember when he was an All Star

721
00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:56,960
and he was our one of our like big up

722
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,960
and coming picks and he just broke his jaw lost weight?

723
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:02,599
A great article in the Athletic. Forgive me, I can't

724
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,640
remember who. I've just read it, who wrote it. I'm

725
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,960
talking about how Garland is way stronger this year and

726
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,400
he's like getting through screens and he's making a defensive

727
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,039
impact and yeah, like he's actually up to his normal

728
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:18,680
weight and and maybe god, like you try living through

729
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,079
a straw for for like several weeks and see how

730
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:22,839
it affects your game. I know I always mentioned this,

731
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,039
but like I don't feel like that gets brought up

732
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,599
enough when people are talking about the bad year that

733
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:27,960
he had.

734
00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:31,039
Speaker 1: It's like the bad year that still included like twenty

735
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:33,680
points per game on three or whatever.

736
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:36,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's always kind of been one of my one

737
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,440
of my guys. I like him a lot. You know,

738
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,759
he has his limitations or not this year, but has

739
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,960
had them. I'm just happy that we're seeing like, oh yeah, no,

740
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,920
Darius Garland is someone that's gonna contend for All Star

741
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,960
Games all the time and is now like for sure

742
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,279
in the All NBA conversation.

743
00:33:53,079 --> 00:33:54,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was an easy fact that we ever gonna

744
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:56,720
get some fictions going on here. I think it's the

745
00:33:56,759 --> 00:34:00,519
real Maybe this is one grant the goal than State

746
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,839
Warriors are a real title contender without needing to make

747
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,720
a trade. So as currently constructed with their eighty seven

748
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:08,719
man rotation.

749
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:16,199
Speaker 2: Eighty six now the anthony brained mcl So it's a

750
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,880
weird recipe because, as we've lamented since I don't know

751
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,440
to the last couple of years, they don't have it's

752
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,760
Steph Curry. And then who's there's not a star. There's

753
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,159
no other star on the team unless you're gonna just

754
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,000
look at Draymond Green's impact and reputation and whatever, like

755
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,760
Andrew Wiggins is in that guy. Jonathan Kamingez certainly hasn't

756
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,320
been that guy. And then it's just a bunch of

757
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,199
role players that play hard and defend and shoot a

758
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,679
lot of threes like Steph plus defense and threes is

759
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,760
a pretty good recipe for being a very good team.

760
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,079
The contention thing, like a real contention thing. You just

761
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000
don't you get the feeling that they're gonna be now

762
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:59,599
they've beaten both Boston and OKASE, but don't you get

763
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:04,199
the feeling that they're just gonna be overmatched talent wise

764
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:07,440
against the best teams in a playoff setting. And this

765
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:10,400
and the depth obviously, people have been saying all year,

766
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,599
the depth is not something that you can rely on

767
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:16,840
in a playoff scenario. I just I think you can

768
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,840
be really good this way, and they have been, and

769
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,920
I think they'll continue to be.

770
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

771
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: Maybe it's an old school way to think, but I

772
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:25,320
just I feel like they need more top end talent

773
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,400
that they can't really get right now because that guy's

774
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,280
not available for the right price to really feel like

775
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,039
an OKAC Boston level contender.

776
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:37,199
Speaker 1: I think I would agree with you, but the fact

777
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:42,159
I remember saying coming into this season that they were

778
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,199
more than one trade away from being a title contender,

779
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,280
and now it feels like they are just one trade away.

780
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,599
And it's not to me. It's not even about the

781
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:52,760
regular season. This might they could wind up being like

782
00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:55,239
one of the three or five best regular season teams,

783
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,199
But you mentioned it. When you get to the playoffs

784
00:35:57,199 --> 00:35:59,039
and you need someone. We saw it when they had

785
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,920
Kevin Durant was like, have that extra guy just to

786
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,440
break down the set defenses to beat if they're going

787
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,360
up against more athletic teams where you need to beat

788
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,119
some switching, Uh, which I mean they be Boston, so

789
00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:12,880
maybe it doesn't matter. But like in a play like

790
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,320
when someone when when a team like Boston has seven

791
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,320
games to plan around what you're doing, or even a

792
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,960
team like Oka, see that's where I think you need.

793
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,519
I frame it as they need a second scoring option,

794
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,039
but like a second primary scoring option. However, and this

795
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,199
is we're gonna throw it to you. I can't tell you.

796
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,639
Names have been thrown out there and depending on how

797
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,519
much they cost, I could talk myself into them, but like,

798
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,920
what is the type? Don't I don't even need If

799
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,480
you want to throw out a name, that's fine as

800
00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:43,400
to use it as the comp Like, what is the

801
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,679
the player that they need to enter serious title contention?

802
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,719
What do they do? What is the general idea the

803
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,559
general function of this player?

804
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: So the cop out answer is, uh, the guy the

805
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,400
type is the player Jonathan Kuminga thinks he is, which

806
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,519
is just like the big combo forward slash wing score

807
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:08,199
that's hyper athletic, can't be guarded with one player can

808
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,880
get down off you know, I like he's been, he's been,

809
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:14,320
he's been fine off the bench. I think the warts

810
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,119
are still there, the athletics, all the plus and minuses

811
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:20,000
are all just kind of where they've been with him.

812
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,079
But that that type, it's like, oh, I don't know,

813
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:26,400
Kawhi like that that kind of or a decent version

814
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,880
of Kauwhi. I don't think it's a And you could

815
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,840
look at all the names we've tried out forever of

816
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,880
just like who's available, Jimmy Butler, Zach Lavine, Brandon Ingram.

817
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:39,360
I think all those guys potentially help. I don't know

818
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,440
that that is like the type I would pick. So

819
00:37:41,519 --> 00:37:44,360
it's just the big combo forward wing like maybe or

820
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,440
even to keep with the theme, like the type of

821
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,920
player Andrew Wiggins was supposed to be when he was

822
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,880
drafted like that, that type of thing. You could also

823
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,599
get a lot of mileage out of a like a

824
00:37:54,599 --> 00:38:00,559
a quality athletic, legitimately center sized center that can be

825
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:03,880
your role man that can just dominate the offensive boards,

826
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,400
block shots like that kind of thing. Every big. The

827
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,559
Warriors play is undersized so and or does not stretch.

828
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:15,559
So it's that that would go a long way, But

829
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:19,440
we're also kind of maybe at the point where it

830
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:21,800
will I'll throw it back to you. Is it possible

831
00:38:22,039 --> 00:38:25,320
that they don't need this? This like who Kaminga was

832
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,159
supposed to be level star and that if you made

833
00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:32,559
like a something beyond a marginal improvements as a big

834
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:35,760
guy or as like a good self sufficient scorer like

835
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480
that might be enough to make the Boston OKC whoever

836
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:43,039
else fight like a little more fair in a seven

837
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:43,679
game setting.

838
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: So I guess it would depend on the route that

839
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,559
you go, and I would view it through them two

840
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:50,679
different lenses, and now I'm gonna throw it back to you.

841
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,239
The first one would be, could you just get another

842
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,320
big because it's all right. You have TJD. You have Draymond,

843
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,760
you have Cavan Lolon, he's been playing really well this year.

844
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,719
You have the ability to downsize. We've seen good moments

845
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,800
from Kyle Anderson. But it you go out and get

846
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,039
it doesn't even need to be I want to say

847
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:09,480
properly sized, but someone who is bigger than any of

848
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:11,360
the centers they have now, who want top out of

849
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:13,360
six seven. It's like, hey, well, how tall a.

850
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 2: Is tj I think is listed at six ' nine. TJD.

851
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,480
I think might be listed at six nine or six ten.

852
00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:20,840
But he doesn't easy, So go out and get.

853
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: Another so TJD. And come on, TJD looks like a center,

854
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,960
I feel like, but go out and get someone who

855
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,880
looks more like a center. You just said, so I

856
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,320
would tell you if, let's say, if you guarantee is

857
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,960
going to be healthy the rest of the year, you

858
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,039
can get it. It seems like he would fit the

859
00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:38,800
like the motif of this team that sends that no

860
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,800
one's really playing a ton of minutes and this guy can't.

861
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,679
But if you could get Robert Williams of the third

862
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,199
I'm not talking about giving up a first round pick

863
00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:46,280
for him, but if you just added him to this team

864
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,920
without having to give up any of the core parts,

865
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,000
do you think that's enough to Okay, now we have

866
00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:52,800
like our big to go with Draymond, and then when

867
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,639
we want to mix and match or do other things,

868
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,960
do you think that then now you're really leaning into

869
00:39:58,199 --> 00:40:00,360
all right, like it's it's defense and we just have

870
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,920
enough dynamism upfront around staff that this is gonna work.

871
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: He's like right on the cutoff line. I think if

872
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,360
you're talking about a healthier over William the third that

873
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,840
looks like Boston RW three and that kind of thing,

874
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,920
that that's a that gives them a like fly around,

875
00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:18,400
you know, come from nowhere, block shots, dimension, like stash

876
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,400
him on the corner guy like the Celtics did. Like

877
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,159
you could get some real like dynamic contributions that you know,

878
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,079
the Warriors current guys don't really provide. Is that enough?

879
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,480
I don't know, it's close that that's an interesting and

880
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:35,960
interesting name or interesting player type. I do think just

881
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,320
to sort of pivot a little bit, like you do

882
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,360
have to assume that Buddy Heel is not going to

883
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,880
make forty six percent on crazy volume from three going forward,

884
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,199
like you know, Draymond Green may not continue to make

885
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,280
forty six percent on like more volume than he's had

886
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,280
in several years like that. So that's all to say.

887
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,119
I think, as we're looking for help, it feels like

888
00:40:59,159 --> 00:41:01,079
it needs to come on offense. That's the thing I'm

889
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,199
most confident of I do. I think the defense is

890
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,119
just going to be this way all year. I just

891
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,000
you know, it's hard to sustain the intensity with which

892
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,960
they play, but because they just keep shuttling, you know,

893
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:17,519
high energy guys in and out of the lineup that

894
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:21,199
are fresh, like you kind of can't imagine them being

895
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,760
this disruptive, infrenetic over eighty two games. So that's just

896
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,679
to say the offense is just where we're we need

897
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,840
to be focused. I think. So maybe that cuts against

898
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,440
Robert Williams, the third underrated passer when he's been healthy,

899
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,559
but like you know what I mean, I think as

900
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,079
I'm talking in circles, it does feel like you just

901
00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:43,360
got to get another guy or two that are gonna

902
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,519
be able to score in ways that are outside of

903
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:51,199
this read and react, constant motion, chuck up threes and

904
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,440
playoff Steph kind of offensive system.

905
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: And I agree with you, and so I'll break that

906
00:41:56,119 --> 00:41:58,880
into two parts. And so the Draymond without Steph minutes,

907
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,079
those have actually been really good offensively, but the offense

908
00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:04,360
sucks without Steph overall, which I think proves two of

909
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,360
the points is Okay, it needs to come on offense.

910
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,440
And yes, this is the thing they need to worry

911
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,039
about when you get to the playoffs, that we don't

912
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:12,119
just get the because I think, and I'll start with

913
00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:14,760
the bigger names, and so Jimmy Butler and brand Ingram

914
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,559
are the two that are mentioned the most. I think

915
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:19,199
both of those guys are imperfect fits. But like if

916
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,400
you're the Warriors, because this invariably gets it and we've

917
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,280
already seen it. Someone got on our Wizard's video clip

918
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,639
that we did at Deep Dive into the Wizards go

919
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,000
check that out, was annoyed because they claimed the Warrior

920
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,880
wouldn't give up two first round picks for brandon Ingram

921
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,320
and Andrew Wiggins in a trade I proposed. I did

922
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,119
not propose that trade because it only had one first

923
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:37,320
round pick. But if you're gonna even take a flyer

924
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,519
on someone like that, you are invariably gonna have to

925
00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:43,719
give up. I would say Andrew Wiggins because of just

926
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,480
the salary he makes. And if you're gonna get a Butler,

927
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:49,280
certainly a butler who's making like fifty million bucks, but

928
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,119
even a brandon Ingram or even a player who's making

929
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:53,639
you can step out of your way there. If the

930
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:55,760
player's twenty five million, okay, sure, but like a Zach

931
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,199
Levine would be another name you're gonna have to give up.

932
00:42:58,199 --> 00:42:59,760
Andrew Wiggins, and I already kind of seen like some

933
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,119
of the push back from Warriors like why would we

934
00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:05,119
give up Andrew Wiggins for this player? And it's you

935
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:07,199
were the same fan base that just wanted them gone

936
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,519
last year. Number one and number two is if you

937
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:13,480
want to get someone or something, you have to give

938
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:16,559
up stuff like it's and I think that's the dilemma

939
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,880
they're gonna run into. And so I have I have

940
00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:21,880
one other name that I think is off the beaten

941
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,440
path for the most part, because I think that's how

942
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,360
good this Warrior's team is. But when you're looking at

943
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,519
the Brandon Ingram and Jimmy Butler of it all, is

944
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,199
there like one, do you like either of their fits

945
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,679
or can you see either of those working out? And

946
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,079
then two, if you had to max out, even don't

947
00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:37,840
don't worry about the package actually working Like what is

948
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,039
sort of the max offer for each and we can

949
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:41,920
take it one by one. So with Brandon Ingram, if

950
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,199
it's Andrew Wiggins salary, so you're you're talking about that's

951
00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:47,039
when you get into the DNF Meltain or the GP

952
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:49,920
two of it all. If it's Andrew Wiggins salary and

953
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:53,000
a first round pick. Is that a movie you're considering

954
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,760
or are you that or not saying that this would

955
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,119
be I don't mean to say that, like, oh, it's

956
00:43:57,119 --> 00:43:58,679
if you wouldn't do this, it's out of control. But

957
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,360
are you that worried about either Ingram's fit and or

958
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,800
next payday that even like a baseline like that is

959
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:04,239
too rich?

960
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, it's I don't know, Maybe this is

961
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,400
on that feels like the risk reward trade off is

962
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,679
still like it's not a no brainer that you do that,

963
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,320
And I think maybe that'll surprise people because Ingram is

964
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,519
just a better offensive player than Wiggins. He does do

965
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,159
the types of things I'm saying they need someone to

966
00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:24,440
do like him and Butler. Both Ingram and Butler both

967
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,760
are like there's where you go for like a tough

968
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,280
two when you got nothing else going on offense. They

969
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:32,960
both get you know, Butler has been, into my eyes,

970
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,960
like quite diminished this year and that's his age thirty

971
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,480
five season that's gonna happen. But I still would trust

972
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:40,880
him to go get a tough two when the offense

973
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,480
is broken down. Ditto for Ingram. Both of them come

974
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:47,719
with contract issues, right because Butler is gonna I not

975
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,039
a given because you can get fifty plus million by

976
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,760
picking up his player option. But Ingram is gonna get

977
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,119
or expect that two hundred million dollar deal, And like

978
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,039
then the question is would you rather give up what

979
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:03,599
you're talking about? A first in Wiggins who By the way,

980
00:45:03,639 --> 00:45:05,559
those same fans that want him gone last year two

981
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:08,000
years ago were like, this guy's the greatest thing ever

982
00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:09,920
because you to help us win, So.

983
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,519
Speaker 1: Grow guilty of it. I just find it one. If

984
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:13,840
you're going to criticize the trade, at least get it right.

985
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,519
That's a fact.

986
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: What was I saying? Would you rather give up that stuff? No,

987
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,159
you're probably on the hook for two hundred million for

988
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:30,239
brandon Ingram or like maybe give kaminga twenty five twenty

989
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,239
eight a year going forward. I don't know, that's like

990
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,159
not out of the question. I don't know if that

991
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,119
trade off quite makes sense.

992
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,039
Speaker 1: Butler's more complicated, So I think you can make the

993
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:40,920
case that if he opts out, maybe he's kind of

994
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,519
making the same, like he'll make less annually. I would

995
00:45:43,519 --> 00:45:45,480
assume where it might it's probably like what Ingram, maybe

996
00:45:45,559 --> 00:45:47,960
they're in the forty million dollar range. Yeah, who would

997
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,360
you feel more comfortable paying for the next two years.

998
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: For two years, man, I wish Butler had played a

999
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,079
little better this year. I mean Ingram's we know what

1000
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:59,079
Ingram's gonna do. Ingram's like at the point in his

1001
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:01,800
career where like he's the and added some three point volume,

1002
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,719
so maybe like there's even more upside.

1003
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: Not not so much efficiency on that through no right,

1004
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:07,199
but he's getting them up.

1005
00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. Two years is like but Butler, you

1006
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:14,199
want age thirty six and thirty seven out of Butler,

1007
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,800
who hasn't stayed healthy through any of his thirties. I

1008
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,000
guess it's I would default to Ingram just because I

1009
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,360
don't think Butler's gonna return value in terms of like volume.

1010
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: I would too, because even if you told me to vacuum, okay,

1011
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,679
give up Kaminga in a first round, I'd probably give

1012
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,760
up in a vacuum more for Jimmy Butler. But when

1013
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,119
you look up how much more it needs to be

1014
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:34,239
where Okay, the baseline of KAMINGA and a first maybe

1015
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,320
a swap. I'm not as high on COMINGA as you are,

1016
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,440
but like that's a deal that's.

1017
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,199
Speaker 2: Been a real roller coaster dan for me. I don't

1018
00:46:40,199 --> 00:46:41,199
know where I'm at right now.

1019
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: That's a deal I would do in a vacuum. But

1020
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,119
Butler makes so much that you get into Okay, well

1021
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:47,079
Wiggins needs to go out, and then it's well, you're

1022
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:48,800
gonna have to give up two of GP two d

1023
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,320
Anthony Melton and Kyle Anderson when the trade restrictions on

1024
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,559
the other two guys lift. So I would default to

1025
00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:59,320
Ingram too, But but I'm saying I don't know that

1026
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,679
they need to go to star route. If Zach Lavine

1027
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,280
made not that he's not a star, but if he

1028
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,440
made less, I would be begging the shit out of

1029
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,280
that drum because I think they need kind of that

1030
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,440
similar archetype of player. Where can you generate your own

1031
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,039
looks sometimes? Yes? Can you be a second Gary. I

1032
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:17,840
won't call it table setter because you're not necessarily that's

1033
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,679
not someone's gonna pass guys open. But can you make

1034
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,400
passes off the live dribble? Yes? Can you then just

1035
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,880
play off the ball and play really well off the ball?

1036
00:47:26,199 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: Yes?

1037
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: There is someone I believe checks all three of those boxes.

1038
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,719
Grant that makes about half of what Jimmy Butler makes.

1039
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,000
Not a name I've seen mentioned and if it has,

1040
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:37,280
I apologized I having consumed that content, then can you

1041
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,679
guess who he is?

1042
00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I'm intrigued. This guy's clearly underpaid.

1043
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,000
If he's making half of that, he.

1044
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: Is Jalen Bruns. No, he is Anthony Simon's feels like

1045
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,400
if you don't want to go to the star route,

1046
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,199
if you don't want to give up a boatload to

1047
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:54,280
where it's, Yeah, they're gonna have to give up something.

1048
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,079
It's probably a first round pick. And I don't know

1049
00:47:57,119 --> 00:47:59,239
why the Blazers want Kaminga. Am I at the point,

1050
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,480
would you train Cominga for Anthony Simons?

1051
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,159
Speaker 2: Oh? God, this You're hurt in my brain. If I'm

1052
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:08,960
the Warriors, what I trade Comminga for Anthony Simons?

1053
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: I'm assuming probably not, because Kamena fills the I think

1054
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,079
he's like a peer four, which is why he's apply

1055
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:18,800
wide to value, because I'm not a big fan of

1056
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,159
the one position guy, except for shooting guards. Apparently that

1057
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:24,840
they're coming back. But I if you're the Warriors, though,

1058
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,920
the theory of this would be it's gonna cost you picks.

1059
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,360
Maybe it cost you Moses Moody too, who's playing well

1060
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,119
this year in a bigger part of the rotation. But

1061
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:36,239
this rotation is I can't name a player. I can

1062
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,199
name Lindy Waters as part of this Traine people are

1063
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,559
gonna be mad. It's like there's just everyone in Golden

1064
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:43,320
State basically plays. So if it's just all right, we're

1065
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,000
gonna have to give up the equivalent of two first

1066
00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:46,599
round picks, and one of them is gonna be this

1067
00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:48,440
year's first round pick and the other one could either

1068
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,320
be a player. Like whether it's not gonna be Pods,

1069
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,159
I don't think it's gonna be Kminga. But if you

1070
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:56,880
can get Anthony Simons are like, I think that makes

1071
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,719
a big enough difference. And you can even step l

1072
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,360
out of your way to Anthony Simons, where if you

1073
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,920
really wanted to, you could build a package that doesn't

1074
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:03,960
have Andrew Wiggins in it.

1075
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could do it with the Loonies and GP

1076
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:09,400
two's and what you know, he could cobble stuff together.

1077
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: But man, I'm Blazer's fans will make it. Why would

1078
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:14,400
we want GP two back?

1079
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,519
Speaker 2: And it's just keep pinging ping ponging GP two back

1080
00:49:18,519 --> 00:49:21,599
and forth. That's just for fun. Yeah, I don't know

1081
00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:23,599
if we've gotten any closer to it. Well, we need

1082
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:27,199
to rain this in. Andrey Simons is a fascinating name.

1083
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,920
I'm gonna need to like sleep on that one because

1084
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,639
all I'm thinking about is, like, is he capable of playing?

1085
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,800
You know, even Buddy Heeld has like been running his

1086
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,079
ass off defensively and like trying hard and stuff. I

1087
00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:40,440
don't know if Simons is that.

1088
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean, no, no, no, no, He's not get into.

1089
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:45,679
Speaker 2: The system and be like you never would have said

1090
00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:48,159
Buddy Heeld was going to play like this, So like,

1091
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,679
I don't know, maybe it's just that there's some magic

1092
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,199
juju the warriors are sprinkling on everyone, so they try

1093
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:54,000
hard on defense.

1094
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,599
Speaker 1: But I guess so then to wrap up this portion

1095
00:49:56,679 --> 00:49:58,159
of it would be so we're in agreement that they

1096
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:00,599
do need an offensive infusion, But if you are going

1097
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:02,599
to go the non star route, would you prefer them

1098
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:05,239
to set their sites even lower where it's okay, Anthony

1099
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,559
Sigmon's makes sense. We think the defensive infrastructure to'll hold

1100
00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:10,559
up around him, but he's still in that twenty five

1101
00:50:10,599 --> 00:50:12,920
million dollar range, right, And it's like we need someone

1102
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,719
who's even cheaper than that. If we're going to go

1103
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:15,800
to the non star route.

1104
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kind of right in the weird middle zone.

1105
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,519
I would Yeah, I think you probably go cheaper and

1106
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:26,039
like go back to the Robert Williams type, like you're

1107
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:29,199
maybe not going to address the wing thing. But the

1108
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,960
more we talk about it, the more it does. Just

1109
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,239
if you're gonna do this, it needs to be a

1110
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,199
swing big enough to say like, okay, now, now we

1111
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,360
cannot say Steph doesn't have a premium second scoring option

1112
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:43,239
next to him.

1113
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: That's what gets so difficult, though, because if you're not available, I.

1114
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,519
Speaker 2: Don't think the perfect guy's not available. So I think

1115
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:52,599
my ultimate takeaway or ultimate response is like, yes, this

1116
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:55,519
is a this is fiction. They're not a real title

1117
00:50:55,519 --> 00:51:00,480
contender without a trade. But the guy that they should,

1118
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,559
that they could trade for to turn their contention into

1119
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:07,039
a fact, is it available right now?

1120
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: Or I don't.

1121
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,639
Speaker 2: I don't love We've just bandied these different players back

1122
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:13,360
and forth several times. I'm not in love with any

1123
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,000
of it. So I think maybe that's just like wait,

1124
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,400
I guess, and like, look, the longer they pile up

1125
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,360
wins playing this style and getting like quote unquote getting

1126
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,519
away with it, the more patients they can afford to

1127
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:25,960
have because you like you.

1128
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: Still have at themselves optionality both patients and the level

1129
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,480
of player or type of player they need to target.

1130
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,480
We have another Warriors one, well Warriors related one here, Grant,

1131
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,360
and I'm gonna steal it because it's the Warriors related

1132
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,320
Draymond Green should be the defensive player of the your

1133
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,840
favorite over Victor Weberyama factor fiction.

1134
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: Man, So I know you've got the on off stuff,

1135
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,760
which is again I'm gonna be dismissive of it even

1136
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:56,480
before you mention it. But Draymond Green is looking energized

1137
00:51:56,519 --> 00:51:59,239
like the game against Dallas just you know, and as

1138
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:04,159
mostly stayed within the realm of like rational on court behavior.

1139
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,639
So that's a plus if you're talking about defensive Player

1140
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:10,639
of the Year favorites, you do, having said that, need

1141
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,519
to factor in the possibility of suspension at some point,

1142
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:17,320
and for him, because they keep considering past actions, like

1143
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,760
his suspensions aren't going to be short, right, Like if

1144
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,480
he does if he hauls off and slugs somebody or

1145
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:25,119
puts someone else in a choke hold, like, it's not

1146
00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:27,519
gonna be five games. So he might just lose his

1147
00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:32,000
eligibility like out of the you know, by one dumb act.

1148
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,320
He's been really good. He's not the rebounder or room

1149
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,760
protector or athlete he was obviously in his prime, but okay,

1150
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:44,599
that's that's to be expected. I do still think he

1151
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,239
is the central figure of this defense, even if the

1152
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,519
numbers are going to show it's more of a committee approach.

1153
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,760
Having said that, Wemby like it's just the the shot

1154
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,679
deterrent and shot you know, altered data, which I know

1155
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,239
you have, is insane. He's leading the league in blocks

1156
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,199
and at three point eight, and it feels like that's

1157
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,519
just that he's not going to be below that at

1158
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:12,519
any point going forward. I think we got to stick

1159
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:14,920
with our priors a little bit and just maybe he's

1160
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,719
not gonna run away with it like we thought. I

1161
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,559
still think he just needs to be the favorite, so

1162
00:53:19,639 --> 00:53:22,000
I would go I would go fiction. If it's Draymond

1163
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:23,800
is should be the favorite over Wemby.

1164
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: I am going fiction as well, but I feel uneasy

1165
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,280
about it because the on off stuff says that Golden

1166
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,800
State defense is substantially better when Draymond is off. Raymond

1167
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,920
also plays in lineups where he's going to be compromised

1168
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,360
a little bit more inherently because if Steph Curry's on

1169
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,519
the court, for one, but like you look at the Warriors,

1170
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:44,559
they're better off with Raymond Green. If like that, there

1171
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:46,519
are certain things with the on off data matters, but

1172
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:48,440
like if it's clearly like if it's saying that the

1173
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,440
Warriors are better offensively without Raymond Green, start digging into

1174
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,280
the lineups, like these secondary lineups are probably playing against

1175
00:53:54,519 --> 00:53:58,840
inferior secondary lineups. It's so interesting because but you look

1176
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,360
at Wemby and so it's like, Okay, the Spurs eighty

1177
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,719
second percent of defensive efficiency with him on the court,

1178
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,639
and I think what's most impressive about that is I

1179
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:10,440
would make the case that he has less defensive talent

1180
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:12,880
around him than Draymond Green does. Where it's like if

1181
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,719
you're getting this version of Andrew Wiggins, and what we

1182
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,440
know about Anthony Melton was he was healthy and having

1183
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,960
GP two and having someone like a tjd or the

1184
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,679
way that Kevon Looney's played this year, Like that's a

1185
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,079
real defensive supporting cast. And with the Spurs, it's Wenby

1186
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:30,199
logs most of his minutes with Chris Paul and Julian

1187
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,000
Champenny and Harrison Barnes and Jeremy Sohan beforehand and Steph

1188
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:36,800
Castle before so hand for he was injured. Excuse me,

1189
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,199
Steph Castle plays a bunch now. A lot of those

1190
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:41,239
guys you look so hand can do stuff defensively. I

1191
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,719
think Julian Champenne's had a really good year for them.

1192
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,320
Steph Castle's very good defensively for a rookie. But he's

1193
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,760
a rookie, and so I think that's what impresses me

1194
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,960
the most. And then you look at just a level

1195
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,079
of impact he's having on the other team where and

1196
00:54:54,119 --> 00:54:56,000
I don't think this is inferior. I would argue that

1197
00:54:56,119 --> 00:54:58,440
it sometimes feels like, right, I wouldn't argue. I think

1198
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,639
it's just a fact. Draymond grew role is harder because

1199
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:04,239
he's kind of responsible for doing a bunch of stuff

1200
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,239
but then making sure everybody else is doing a bunch

1201
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,119
of stuff and tying it all together, where Wemby is

1202
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,840
just the one man system unto himself by virtue of

1203
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,679
disruption and deterrence. And it's you mentioned the shot blocking

1204
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:20,679
teams are shooting sixteen percentage points worse at the rim

1205
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,800
as a team when he's just on the floor, they're

1206
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,559
taking about four percentage points less of their shots at

1207
00:55:27,559 --> 00:55:30,480
the rim. When he's on the court, he's holding opponents

1208
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,000
to under thirty five percent shooting at the rim while

1209
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:35,840
contesting the second most shots at the rim per game.

1210
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:39,599
That is And I think when people they look at

1211
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:43,039
Draymond and he wears, I would say more hats. But

1212
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,960
Wemby is not. This is not the Brook Lopez Defensive

1213
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,480
Player of the Year case, which again he had a case. Wenby.

1214
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:51,719
Some of these rim protection possessions they begin with him

1215
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,800
like guarding beyond the arc, and he's just coming back

1216
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,480
and he's he's ending shots that way. So I actually

1217
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,639
did not pick Wemby to win defense. Play your head,

1218
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:01,679
bam at bio, and that is a prediction that is

1219
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,679
aged like milk. Draymond Green has a case. And it's

1220
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,000
interesting we're so early in the season that things could change,

1221
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:11,199
Like does something happen with the Spurs where is going

1222
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,199
to be playing less down the stretcher. Does the defense

1223
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,800
deteriorate around him for some reason? I think he's the

1224
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,920
answer right now. I think these are very clearly the

1225
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,719
top two. Maybe Evan Mobley might deserve some shine here

1226
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,239
for what he's done with Cleveland. I struggled to come

1227
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:26,320
up with other names.

1228
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Holmgren had a case before getting injured. Yeah,

1229
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,480
we can rule him out now, but yeah, that it's

1230
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:32,199
a short list.

1231
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: You remind us who ranks fourth in defensive Oh.

1232
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:39,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the in the the obvious king of all stats,

1233
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,559
defensive box plus minus with no flaws with it whatsoever.

1234
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,719
That's our guy, Jill. I'm gonna say he's our guy

1235
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,400
because I want I was just gonna be in.

1236
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: The bag for him. But I think you would die

1237
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,280
for him. I think that's.

1238
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jalen Williams. Just number four defensive box plus minus

1239
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,840
should be noted. Four Thunder players are in the top nine,

1240
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,079
and that indicative of why that stat might not need

1241
00:57:02,119 --> 00:57:02,719
to be trusted.

1242
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: Although the Thunders defenses are good, there's only four. I

1243
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:08,719
just find it it's.

1244
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: Hard for me to I forget who the fourth because

1245
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,760
Cason Wallace is one. Jada Chet, He's obviously gonna fall

1246
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,239
out or he won't actually, because that's a rate set. Anyway,

1247
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,599
I just want to say about Wimby before we move on.

1248
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,639
I think, like the the rim protection numbers and just

1249
00:57:25,679 --> 00:57:28,480
like the conversion rates when he's designated as the defender

1250
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:32,320
at the rim, and the way he suppresses attempts to

1251
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,840
me does so Like when we are evaluating Wemby over

1252
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,639
the last couple of years, we're always talking about like

1253
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,679
he's gonna change things, or like we've never seen this before.

1254
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:43,639
This is like, you know, we've been very positive, but

1255
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:46,440
it's always like I don't really know what it means

1256
00:57:46,519 --> 00:57:48,880
to have a guy this big that moves this way.

1257
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:51,960
And I think that's the the rim protection stuff is

1258
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,039
really our first because that's an insane it's an absurd number,

1259
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:57,519
Like it's like the league average in three point shooting,

1260
00:57:57,519 --> 00:57:59,639
except it's at the rim when he's around, right, Like

1261
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:02,880
that's just like that's unheard of. So I think this

1262
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,920
is the first, like really good. Now, some people might say,

1263
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,920
actually it's him making six plus threes in three straight

1264
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,719
games and getting fifty uh and shooting like eighteen of

1265
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,199
twenty nine or whatever, like that's that's the sign that

1266
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,880
he's different, or like, you know, we're gonna see things

1267
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,800
we've never seen before. I think it's the rim protection stuff,

1268
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,199
like we're he is just gonna impact scoring by the

1269
00:58:23,199 --> 00:58:24,000
opponent way.

1270
00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: The most valuable shot in the game of basketball.

1271
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:30,199
Speaker 2: In ways nobody really ever has, and and nothing to

1272
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,599
me about it feels like phony just because you then

1273
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:35,599
let's jump to the eye test. It's like, guys, just

1274
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,880
don't challenge him, you know. The offense is completely like

1275
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,760
just veer away. And it's not like, Okay, well he's

1276
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,400
over here, so let's go over here. It's like, no,

1277
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,679
he's kind of everywhere just because of the length, So

1278
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,239
there's like no safe place to be if he's out

1279
00:58:49,239 --> 00:58:51,239
there and if you're trying to shoot it. I think

1280
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,119
I just am increasingly convinced that like this is the

1281
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:57,719
first pretty clear sign of we're gonna have to sort

1282
00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:01,239
of reevaluate what we think is possible from a defensive

1283
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:03,280
impact standpoint because of him.

1284
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to dismiss Draymond's craze things

1285
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,800
that we have, but I will say because the defensive playmaking,

1286
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:15,079
that's something. Or the numbers, the counting stats, the blocks,

1287
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:18,079
the steels, like those always make people want to watch

1288
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,679
because when people say that that, you know, the people

1289
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,480
like man, I really enjoy watching Delnal Benton navigates screens

1290
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:25,400
on defense like congratulations for letting us know that you

1291
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,119
watch the Blazers that's why you said that, Like, fine, okay, great,

1292
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:31,159
but Draymond Green and I don't. He's averaging a block

1293
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:33,599
to steel per game, so he has counting stats, but

1294
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,119
he's legitimately and I'm like, this isn't sick o stuff.

1295
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:41,000
He's legitimately fun and entertaining to watch on defense despite

1296
00:59:41,119 --> 00:59:45,159
not being the traditional counting stats disruption guy because of

1297
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:48,800
the way he either actually navigates the floor but is

1298
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,480
also directing everything else. And I can't say enough that,

1299
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,840
certainly in my lifetime, I've never watched a better defensive

1300
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,920
player on a regular basis. But the fact that he's

1301
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,199
still doing this at the age of thirty four that

1302
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:02,800
shouldn't factor in. It was like Lebron should win MVP

1303
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,519
because he's good at the age of thirty. No, no, no,

1304
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:06,760
Like that's not how this works. But the fact that

1305
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,320
he might be or is one of the three most

1306
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,639
valuable defensive players in basketball after all these years, still

1307
01:00:14,239 --> 01:00:15,360
that's fucking crazy.

1308
01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: Well, and it's a testament to I mean, if you're

1309
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,480
going to make the case for Draymond, it's rooted in that,

1310
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:23,079
which is like he's very much the orchestrator, like and

1311
01:00:23,119 --> 01:00:26,039
he I don't know if I'm I'm biased, but he's

1312
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:29,199
the best defensive player I've ever seen, and I think

1313
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:29,760
I'd like to.

1314
01:00:29,719 --> 01:00:33,119
Speaker 1: Throw someone else into that equation. Opposing pick and roll

1315
01:00:33,159 --> 01:00:35,519
ball handlers are only scoring point three to one points

1316
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:38,679
per possession against Moses Moody. So is he really the driving?

1317
01:00:38,719 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: Ford? Really the key? I think it's unfair to Wimby because,

1318
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,840
like it's a second year and Draymond might might be

1319
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,639
the smartest defensive player we've ever seen. And so Draymond

1320
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:52,320
is able to control the defense like from a mental

1321
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,599
standpoint and a tactical standpoint in ways like well, of

1322
01:00:54,639 --> 01:00:56,719
course Wimby can't do that. He's been in the league

1323
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:59,000
for less than one hundred games, Like that's just not

1324
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:02,519
something you can expect from him. So Themond, the Draymond

1325
01:01:02,599 --> 01:01:06,559
case is just like the level of control he exerts

1326
01:01:06,599 --> 01:01:08,599
over the game, like with his mind and with his

1327
01:01:08,679 --> 01:01:11,239
like experience and stuff is just on a very very

1328
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,840
different level than Wemby, who's just all incredible physical tools

1329
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,039
and mobility and stuff.

1330
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,119
Speaker 1: That was these there's been some heavy ones. We need

1331
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:19,280
like a nice little lighter one.

1332
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: Oh never mind, Well, okay, I'll read this. I can't

1333
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,760
remember what order in the Miami Heat no longer have

1334
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,159
a player capable of being the best player on a contender,

1335
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,719
So we might need to define contender, like we're talking

1336
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,519
in the same terms as the Warriors, like where you're

1337
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,360
on the Boston OKC level, not you know, co favorite

1338
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,119
type thing or like wouldn't be shocked if they want

1339
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:45,800
a title, Like what, let's define contender before we get

1340
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:46,760
factor fiction here?

1341
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:48,679
Speaker 1: I would even can we frame it in another way

1342
01:01:48,719 --> 01:01:51,119
where it's you look at the Bucks, they're not a

1343
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:53,599
championship contender, But do you think that Giannis Attenta Koopo

1344
01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:55,719
can still be the best player on a championship contender?

1345
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,079
Speaker 2: Yep, I do die look at the Heat.

1346
01:01:58,199 --> 01:01:59,719
Speaker 1: It's kind of in the same vein. They're not a

1347
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,719
championship contender in large part because they don't have a

1348
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,480
player who can be the best on a championship contender.

1349
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:09,000
And I don't mean to make this an indictment of anybody.

1350
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:12,280
I think Bam is a fantastic basketball player, probably one

1351
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,480
of the single most valuable defensive players in the postseason

1352
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,800
that you could cook up in a lab. He's never

1353
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,039
been someone who's been able to carry the offense independentive

1354
01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:23,519
Jimmy Butler and actually run stuff to the ghost stuff

1355
01:02:23,559 --> 01:02:25,079
is fun. The stuff that he is able to do

1356
01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:27,360
off the dribble facilitate for others is fun. It is

1357
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:31,960
historically not driven a ton of efficient offenses independent of

1358
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,199
someone who is much better than him. Now, it looks

1359
01:02:35,239 --> 01:02:37,239
like you already mentioned this. I think like twice throughout

1360
01:02:37,239 --> 01:02:42,480
this podcast, the Jimmy Butler decline feels real and like

1361
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,920
we've seen him flip the switch this year, but it's

1362
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,480
flipped the switch for twenty five percent of the game,

1363
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,480
which is just not going to cut it. And so

1364
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:52,320
every one, not everyone, but I still don't really know

1365
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,440
what to make of the heat Tyler heroes having a

1366
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,599
fantastic season and not that it doesn't matter, but I

1367
01:02:57,639 --> 01:02:58,880
look at it and say, hey, well, how much does

1368
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,960
it really matter to this team if they don't have

1369
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,360
the number one guy? I'm not even saying on a

1370
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,599
team this is I guess what you were getting at

1371
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:08,480
of how do we define contender? Like do they even

1372
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:11,199
have someone who could be the best player on a

1373
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,800
top three seed in their conference? And we're talking about

1374
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:15,360
the East here?

1375
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, So I think I think your framing is right.

1376
01:03:18,519 --> 01:03:20,840
This isn't really about like what does it mean to

1377
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,320
be a contender. It's just a question ultimately of like

1378
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,199
how good are Jimmy Butler and Bam Autobio like in

1379
01:03:26,239 --> 01:03:28,280
a vacuum, Like could you put them on a team

1380
01:03:28,719 --> 01:03:32,079
and surround them with you know, let's let's you can't.

1381
01:03:32,119 --> 01:03:34,519
You don't get to say, okay, well BAM's your center.

1382
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:37,800
But then you also have you know, four other starters

1383
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,840
that are like all NBA contenders but not you know

1384
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:42,880
what I mean, like that that just on a regular

1385
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:44,599
or above average team.

1386
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,519
Speaker 1: And yeah, Jimmy Butler and Bam are on Boston their set.

1387
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, if you give them, yeah, you don't even

1388
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,360
need Tatum. If you give them Jalen Brown and Derek

1389
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,079
White and Drew Holliday, you had a real team. I

1390
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:58,000
think it's right because we're just really what we're saying

1391
01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:00,960
is like neither of these guys is in the conversation

1392
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:03,920
as a top ten guy, like not even not even

1393
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:07,320
really close right, Like and at the moment, you know,

1394
01:04:07,639 --> 01:04:10,559
Butler is like, Butler's not an All Star, Butler's not

1395
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:13,440
a top twenty five guy. Now if he does do

1396
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:15,960
the Jimmy Butler thing where he's just better in the playoffs,

1397
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,400
then yeah, okay.

1398
01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:18,079
Speaker 1: Are they getting there?

1399
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 2: That's the thing, Like you can't just do that anymore

1400
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,800
because you're what you're doing in the regular season is

1401
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,960
so far below even the like, you know, B plus

1402
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:30,119
effort level that he's put in in the past. So

1403
01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:33,239
I mean just the numbers Dan like sixteen a game

1404
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:38,000
from Butler uh making his twos Okay, shooting fewer threes

1405
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:41,079
in last year, making fifteen percent of them, doesn't like

1406
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,400
just age thirty five seasons, so athletically, he's not able

1407
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,800
to do all the same things he was from an

1408
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:52,679
individual scoring standpoint as So this is a pretty easy fact, right,

1409
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,039
Like they're just these guys aren't top ten, top fifteen

1410
01:04:55,039 --> 01:04:56,159
players at the moment. No.

1411
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,639
Speaker 1: I think that's the Heats problem, where Okay, could they

1412
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:00,960
if you're now I think of them could still be

1413
01:05:01,159 --> 01:05:03,920
All Stars. But the Heat to me, their problem is

1414
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:05,920
and Tyler hero could they could if you.

1415
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:08,039
Speaker 2: Told we just made Taylor hero an All Stars, so

1416
01:05:08,039 --> 01:05:09,239
they got three.

1417
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:12,079
Speaker 1: So you could have three All Star caliber players, but

1418
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:15,559
they still need if they wanted to contend with the Cleveland's,

1419
01:05:15,719 --> 01:05:20,280
the Boston, the OKCS, whatever team Jokich has around him. Uh,

1420
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,960
the Denver Nuggets. Uh, maybe we should trade Jokic. Like,

1421
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:25,519
but in all seriousness, if you even want to contend

1422
01:05:25,599 --> 01:05:28,400
with let's go to the second tier contenders where it's

1423
01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:31,000
the Nuggets the Wolves, who I still believe in. We

1424
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,239
both believe that we're gonna get to the Wolves of Matvericks. Actually,

1425
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:38,440
the Heat need a new best player and that's kind

1426
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:39,840
of a harrowing place to be in.

1427
01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do they get it? You're not getting trading Butler.

1428
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't view this as an indictment

1429
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,079
of Bam at a Bayo because I think it's just

1430
01:05:47,079 --> 01:05:48,840
been pretty clear that, yeah, he could be your second

1431
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,800
best guy. But that's not so. This isn't if people

1432
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,400
are taking it as an insult to Bam. I think

1433
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,440
there's they're like, if you put Bam on Boston instead

1434
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,000
of Tatum, is he their best player? They're probably still contender?

1435
01:06:00,159 --> 01:06:02,039
But is he their best player or is it become

1436
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:03,519
Jalen Brown at that RT? Right?

1437
01:06:03,639 --> 01:06:06,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the hierarchy changes if you do that.

1438
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,519
Speaker 1: And I don't know how they go about. They don't

1439
01:06:08,519 --> 01:06:10,039
have they could trade I think up the two first

1440
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:11,679
round picks this year. They have some swaps and I

1441
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:16,360
guess Tyler heroes more valuable than ever, But like that

1442
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:18,320
puts them in just a really rickety spot, which is

1443
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,039
why they should probably be. This leads into the separate

1444
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:23,719
discussion of I'm not a big they need to tear

1445
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,239
it down guy, And I'm not even saying they need

1446
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:26,920
to tear it down, but I don't understand the theory

1447
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:32,360
of Jimmy Butler on this team anymore moving forward.

1448
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 2: Him that's one of my my pretty I've come around

1449
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,360
pretty quickly to that. It's like, I just forget the

1450
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,239
contract situation and worrying about losing him for nothing or

1451
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,239
or I don't know what's worse him picking up that

1452
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,679
fifty million dollar option or are you losing him for nothing?

1453
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,000
That what you're talking about is really the core of it.

1454
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:51,199
Like he isn't that guy anymore. It doesn't look like

1455
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,440
maybe this changes at the moment. He certainly doesn't look

1456
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,039
like that level of players, So then what do you

1457
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:57,239
what are you doing? Because because Bam can't be that,

1458
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,199
Like BAM's great, we love him, he can't be that.

1459
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,159
Speaker 1: So by the way, it's like he's had some weird

1460
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,760
like defensive performances this year feels like they're trying to

1461
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,760
skew him more towards a traditional big. That's just not

1462
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:11,119
I mean, his rim protection numbers and the stuff he

1463
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:14,440
was doing and drop last year was incredible, but as

1464
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,079
his and maybe I just haven't seen enough of the heat,

1465
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:18,440
but as his baseline, Like no, like Bam out of

1466
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,000
Bio needs to be Bam out of Bio and yeah,

1467
01:07:21,199 --> 01:07:24,760
great opponents are shooting in my head, I had this number.

1468
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,880
It was actually lower and it's higher than I thought.

1469
01:07:27,239 --> 01:07:29,280
Seventy seven and a half percent against Bam out of

1470
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,159
Bio at the rim.

1471
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:32,559
Speaker 2: That's not his game. Like he's he's a top five

1472
01:07:32,679 --> 01:07:35,039
DPO y guy every year because he's one of the

1473
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:37,800
best switch defenders in the league and his super he's

1474
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,880
just never been that. It's not the last year he

1475
01:07:41,039 --> 01:07:44,800
was though he was better. Yeah, he's averaging more blocks

1476
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,960
this year. That's partly because of the way they're using him.

1477
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,880
He is closer to the basket. That's just gonna happen.

1478
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,440
But like, that's not that's not the that's not the

1479
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,440
Bam out of Bio. Hang your hat, like skill.

1480
01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: Do you think that speaks to a level of distrust

1481
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:00,320
and what's in front of him now in a way

1482
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,280
where it's okay, Butler got older, we use katelen Martin

1483
01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:05,320
and it's you know, I think you could argue with, shit,

1484
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,519
hey what high Smith be playing more minutes than he is?

1485
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:09,760
But like, does that just speak to we don't trust

1486
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:11,159
what's in front of him, so like we need Ben

1487
01:08:11,199 --> 01:08:12,679
out of Bayo around the basket more.

1488
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: I think that has to be it, because you wouldn't

1489
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,000
look at his body of workover his career and say, like,

1490
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:18,840
you know, we should mess with this, like we should

1491
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,319
do something other than have him do what he's best at.

1492
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:24,079
It's just like by yeah, it's by necessity, right, and

1493
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:26,000
they're they're having him play in ways that are not

1494
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:29,479
best for him because he can still do it and

1495
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,880
it's best for the personnel around him. I think I

1496
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:32,640
think that's dead on.

1497
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: So we're both going fact here. Yeah, I think his

1498
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,840
next one will be a lighter one. Oh no, of

1499
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,880
course this is yours too. My god, man, I'm reading.

1500
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,600
It's my turn to read it. Karl Anthony Town's a

1501
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,760
better all NBA bet than Jalen Brunson. I'm not gonna

1502
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,640
call factor fiction I'm gonna call bullshit.

1503
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to trigger you.

1504
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:54,199
Speaker 1: Jalen Brunts has been off to a rocky start for

1505
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:57,079
what how about you make the case here for are

1506
01:08:57,119 --> 01:08:58,239
you going factor fiction?

1507
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 2: Well, let's see, I'm gonna I'm gonna do what you

1508
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,960
said first. I'm gonna try to make the case before

1509
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,439
we render a ruling here. So Towns, we've we've joked

1510
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,079
like or I have with several players here. He's making

1511
01:09:10,119 --> 01:09:12,000
half his three. He's like Towns actually is making half

1512
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,520
his three. He's over fifty percent from deep now the

1513
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,399
volume still is like I'd love to see him on

1514
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,039
ten attempts as opposed to fifty percent on five, Like

1515
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:23,600
that's I like the math a little better that way.

1516
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:27,279
But he is leading the Nixon scoring despite not leading

1517
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:29,600
them in shots, he's leading them in rebounds twelve point

1518
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:34,720
two three assists. Has just been smoking the Vucevic's and

1519
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,159
the brook Lopezes and the conventional centers of the world

1520
01:09:37,159 --> 01:09:38,880
that opponents put on him, because he just puts it

1521
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,439
on the floor and drives like that's and you you

1522
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,479
defend him with smalls, He's gonna score on the post.

1523
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,479
He's a huge matchup problem. I think this is kind

1524
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,119
of my favorite version of Towns that I've seen since,

1525
01:09:49,199 --> 01:09:52,119
like way back when we you know what, maybe a

1526
01:09:52,159 --> 01:09:54,720
second third year, when it seemed like this guy might

1527
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,439
be a top five.

1528
01:09:56,199 --> 01:10:00,159
Speaker 1: Player at five sophomore on like ridiculous efficientcy oh yeah.

1529
01:10:00,359 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 2: And this was before it was like wow, before the

1530
01:10:04,039 --> 01:10:06,439
days were lots of guys his size shoot threes and

1531
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,520
it seemed like such an anomaly that he could do that.

1532
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:12,439
I let's see what else would I say to make

1533
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:14,239
the case that's probably about it.

1534
01:10:14,319 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean more about Jalen Brunson not continuing to get better.

1535
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,520
And I think we've seen the offense as always though

1536
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,479
with the Knicks, even when Jallen Brunson's at his best,

1537
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,439
it feels like it always deteriorates later in games. But

1538
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,039
this year it's been bad. There's still bottom. I think

1539
01:10:31,039 --> 01:10:34,600
they're below league averaged in fourth quarters offensively. That's with

1540
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,039
me filtering out the Celtics game. Maybe maybe it would

1541
01:10:37,079 --> 01:10:39,439
help that garbage time their offensive rating and fourth quarters

1542
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,520
like kept it in their crunch time offense. Grant bottom three.

1543
01:10:43,039 --> 01:10:46,720
Jalen bruns In he has struggled, but he's also hurt

1544
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,760
them in the sense that. I don't think the Knicks

1545
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,159
have actually made his life any easier other than giving

1546
01:10:51,239 --> 01:10:54,000
him more space to operate. I don't Maybe the latest

1547
01:10:54,079 --> 01:10:56,399
version of Karl Anthony Towns does make it easier, but

1548
01:10:57,319 --> 01:11:01,960
really I think Jalen Brunson has struggled. And it's the

1549
01:11:02,119 --> 01:11:04,640
argument for this would be he will continue to struggle

1550
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:06,800
because McHale Bridges is not the player who they thought

1551
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,279
they were acquiring. Would probably be the real way to

1552
01:11:09,319 --> 01:11:11,960
frame this. But I think he's gotten a little bit

1553
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,640
better of getting off the ball slightly quicker, not over

1554
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,319
dribbling as much, and that was uncharacteristic of him last year. Yeah,

1555
01:11:17,319 --> 01:11:19,239
they needed him to dribble a lot and create, but

1556
01:11:19,279 --> 01:11:23,079
he was operating in such tight confines you understood it.

1557
01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:25,920
This year, he's like kind of dribbling to nowhere more often,

1558
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:27,560
where it's like he's holding the ball too long. He's

1559
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,079
not seeing guys that he normally would, He's not spraying

1560
01:11:30,079 --> 01:11:32,319
out like he should be. Now again, does that is

1561
01:11:32,359 --> 01:11:34,359
this about the change in the roster? Does he not

1562
01:11:34,359 --> 01:11:36,680
trust these guys? Some of them at points, including Towns,

1563
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,439
have been passive, like Josh Hart passed a three point

1564
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:41,560
shooter at least attacks off the dribble. It feels like

1565
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,640
og Annoby McHale Bridges not Town so much right now,

1566
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,960
but they seem reticent to like really attack in those ways.

1567
01:11:48,279 --> 01:11:52,039
But I think the offense overall it's gotten better, and

1568
01:11:52,079 --> 01:11:55,199
I think Jalen Brunson is going to continue to get better.

1569
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,920
And just knowing that the Knicks are only going to

1570
01:11:59,039 --> 01:12:02,000
go to where they want to, which is to say,

1571
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,560
like top two or three in the East. If Jalen

1572
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:05,760
Brunson is a top ten player, I have to call

1573
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,800
fiction on this because I just don't. And also, Carl

1574
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,119
Anthony Towns has done Jalen Brunson's newer to overall stardom,

1575
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,600
but Carl Anthony Towns' track record speak for itself, where

1576
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,960
yes he's a star, but he's he's a human rollercoaster,

1577
01:12:20,079 --> 01:12:22,960
which feels like he can still vanish on the offensive end,

1578
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,359
and sometimes that's about teams not getting him involved enough.

1579
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,000
Other times it's about him being too passive. And I

1580
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:32,680
also think his defensive miscues are always going to stand

1581
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,680
out more than Jalen Brunson because no one expects either

1582
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:37,800
of these guys to be really good. But when you're

1583
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:41,479
big man, and your primary big man is not good,

1584
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,279
or he has a bad game, or he's even up

1585
01:12:43,319 --> 01:12:45,079
and down to where it gives you the glimpse of

1586
01:12:45,119 --> 01:12:47,560
like Towns, Well, we know what he can do, but

1587
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,199
he's not doing it every night, on every possession. That's

1588
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:53,039
gonna hurt him more then it's gonna hurt Jalen Brunson.

1589
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,159
Speaker 2: I think this has to be fiction because I'd go

1590
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,640
real simple. Kat cannot play better than this. That's just

1591
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,760
full stop. He can't. It's not possible. Like I haven't

1592
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,479
looked at I guarantee you no one has ever averaged

1593
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,319
twenty six and twelve and made over half his threes

1594
01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:12,079
on five attempts. Again, like that just isn't in this record.

1595
01:13:12,199 --> 01:13:15,159
Speaker 1: They still had musicians that might have been his ticket

1596
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:17,319
in where there's really only three center spots, but like

1597
01:13:17,399 --> 01:13:19,680
that would have been at this point after Yo kich.

1598
01:13:20,039 --> 01:13:22,840
I guess if a DeSUS center we can Sabonus has

1599
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:25,000
been good, who would be who? I'm probably forgetting someone,

1600
01:13:25,039 --> 01:13:25,319
aren't I?

1601
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 2: Well, normally you talk about bam, It's not it's not

1602
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:29,520
gonna be bamam talking about.

1603
01:13:30,039 --> 01:13:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah so uh but yeah, fiction here, what do

1604
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,960
we have next? This one's gonna be yours to read.

1605
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 2: Okay, Dan Ben Simmons expiring contract is playing basketball fairly

1606
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,920
regularly these days will be traded. And that's the reason

1607
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,199
that's an interesting factor of fiction. I if you find

1608
01:13:50,199 --> 01:13:53,000
it interesting is because that seems who wants that deal

1609
01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:55,000
and just he'll be a buyout or he'll just play

1610
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:55,560
out the string.

1611
01:13:56,279 --> 01:13:58,520
Speaker 1: And that's what's interesting because the nets you could also

1612
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,560
take the plant. Well, if they want to get value,

1613
01:14:02,039 --> 01:14:04,199
you send out because they're they're shrinking. My point is

1614
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,079
you're shrinking their suitors even more because we don't expect

1615
01:14:07,079 --> 01:14:09,279
that they want good players back to where what if

1616
01:14:09,279 --> 01:14:11,640
we could get Zach Lavine by giving up Ben Simmons. No,

1617
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:13,399
you know, they're winning too many games as it is.

1618
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,640
It's like for what their plan is. So you're saying

1619
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,800
that a team wants to get rid of a contract,

1620
01:14:20,239 --> 01:14:23,199
and so what is the contract that you know? Zeke

1621
01:14:23,279 --> 01:14:28,359
Nasey doesn't fit into this? Sorry little too expensive, but

1622
01:14:29,079 --> 01:14:31,720
Darioschars doesn't fit into this either. You could aggregate still

1623
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,600
won't work, but like, what is the contract that is

1624
01:14:35,039 --> 01:14:37,000
not that it's so bad, but that is bad enough

1625
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,439
to say, okay, we want because again, it's not for

1626
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,800
unless the Nets are gonna zig or zag when we

1627
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,319
expect them to zig and be like, no, we want

1628
01:14:44,359 --> 01:14:46,840
good players, so we'll use this expiring contract to get them.

1629
01:14:47,119 --> 01:14:50,199
What's the contract? You look at or contracts and say, well,

1630
01:14:50,199 --> 01:14:53,079
it makes sense to send Ben Benzimmons expiring contract here

1631
01:14:53,119 --> 01:14:54,760
just so they can get out from under that money.

1632
01:14:55,119 --> 01:14:57,279
Speaker 2: This is the problem we've have. We run out of

1633
01:14:57,319 --> 01:15:01,279
like egregiously horrible NBA contracts. I guess like because you

1634
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,840
normally point to someone like Beal. Not that I'm saying

1635
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,920
this is a Simmons trade candidate, but I'm just looking like,

1636
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,760
what are the deals where everybody's like yeah, enough to.

1637
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:10,520
Speaker 1: Where it's the only thing that's annoy is he has

1638
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:15,039
the no trade clause right now. So yeah, I'm trying

1639
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:15,760
to think of the deals.

1640
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 2: That's part like you used to be able to say

1641
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,319
all Tobias Harris.

1642
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 1: Bocker extension too, because you know, the.

1643
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 2: Magic really do need another non shooting defense first.

1644
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: Oh, here's the deal, but you have to send someone

1645
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,439
else back and he's not trade eligible yet. But like

1646
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:36,039
the Bull's got to be thinking about getting off that

1647
01:15:36,039 --> 01:15:37,640
Pat Williams contract right now.

1648
01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 2: House Oh, man, Why why are they?

1649
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 1: What do you have? What does he have in year five? Grant?

1650
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:46,479
I can't remember?

1651
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 2: Uh? Is it a team option? Is no? Is it?

1652
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,119
Speaker 1: Oh? It's a player option? Yeah, he needed a player. Yeah,

1653
01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:55,359
he does.

1654
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:56,079
Speaker 2: Give it to him.

1655
01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: Got it?

1656
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 2: The negotiating, you know that, it was a it was

1657
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,000
a bidding war. You just had to beat the ten

1658
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:03,720
other teams that were gonna you know that tried to

1659
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,039
go five years straight. He's like, no, no, no, we

1660
01:16:06,319 --> 01:16:07,720
come on, bulls. What are you gonna give me?

1661
01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:11,239
Speaker 1: I think I have one? And this is just I

1662
01:16:11,279 --> 01:16:13,039
don't know if they would do it because you would

1663
01:16:13,039 --> 01:16:15,760
have to include other salary. Would you want to get

1664
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,319
out of the final year of Marcus Smart's contract if

1665
01:16:18,319 --> 01:16:20,920
you could? And so like, is there another? I think

1666
01:16:21,079 --> 01:16:23,520
you'd probably have to increase your payroll this season though,

1667
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,279
because he's at about twenty twenty one? What is Ben

1668
01:16:26,319 --> 01:16:29,359
Simmons ad? Is he at thirty six? So he's at

1669
01:16:29,399 --> 01:16:33,079
thirty six? So like, if it's all he's is he

1670
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:34,920
at forty? Then I forget.

1671
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: Forty three in my head. Let me look it up.

1672
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:37,560
I should have done this.

1673
01:16:39,039 --> 01:16:41,279
Speaker 1: He hasn't played in like consistently and so long. I

1674
01:16:41,279 --> 01:16:43,199
don't know what he's gonna make a dollar for dollar

1675
01:16:43,239 --> 01:16:44,479
and I normally know these things.

1676
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, So all right, I'm gonna get at

1677
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:47,880
you vamp, so.

1678
01:16:48,279 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't need to vamp. My actual point would be

1679
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,279
if he's making that much money to where all right,

1680
01:16:52,279 --> 01:16:53,600
you want to get out of the final year that

1681
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,279
Marcus Smart deal. But do you even if you, let's

1682
01:16:55,279 --> 01:16:57,840
say Lukenard as it, or do you want to get

1683
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,720
out of the Clark and Smart deals? And it's Clark

1684
01:17:01,039 --> 01:17:03,600
and Smart for Ben's what is Ben Simmons making? You

1685
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:04,119
found it.

1686
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 2: Forty point three?

1687
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,119
Speaker 1: So I think you could technically do that, but you

1688
01:17:08,159 --> 01:17:11,079
would still have to include if your Memphis. Part of

1689
01:17:11,079 --> 01:17:13,039
the point would be, well, if you could do that

1690
01:17:13,119 --> 01:17:16,000
in a vacuum, Wait is it forty three? I'm sorry?

1691
01:17:16,039 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 2: What forty point three?

1692
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: Oh God? That does that framework interest you at all?

1693
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,479
Where if it's it's Brandon Clark and Marcus Smart for Memphis,

1694
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,239
where we just have this deal and it's gonna give

1695
01:17:27,279 --> 01:17:29,800
us more flexibility to pay some of these other guys

1696
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:31,000
moving forward, I don't.

1697
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,359
Speaker 2: I'm I'm getting a first If I'm I'm getting well,

1698
01:17:34,359 --> 01:17:36,119
if that's the other thing I like if I'm Brooklyn,

1699
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:38,840
I'm doing this because i want picks, right, because I'll

1700
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,760
I'm taking on these longer quotes tracks.

1701
01:17:41,199 --> 01:17:43,640
Speaker 1: Then no, this is fiction because if I'm Memphis, I'm

1702
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,600
not giving up a first to get off just those

1703
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,800
guys like you, I would want give me Dory and

1704
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,680
Finney Smith instead, And then that changes the whole complexion

1705
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:51,319
of the trade.

1706
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 2: That's where that's where it's hard, or if it becomes

1707
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,399
a fiction, because if you're the Nets, you're like, what

1708
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,439
all you want is the money you're willing to take

1709
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,039
on bad money or I think you should be with

1710
01:18:04,119 --> 01:18:06,720
a pick that might turn into a high lottery pick.

1711
01:18:07,119 --> 01:18:09,159
And it's hard for me to imagine because we just

1712
01:18:09,199 --> 01:18:11,199
went through, like where are the contracts so that teams

1713
01:18:11,199 --> 01:18:13,680
are like, we have to get off this money and

1714
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:15,680
we'll give up a pick to do it, Like I

1715
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:16,720
don't know where those are.

1716
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,520
Speaker 1: And I think a big part of that is one

1717
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,039
a lot of these deals are shorter unless you're Patrick Williams.

1718
01:18:21,319 --> 01:18:25,800
And also just free agency has changed and maybe it

1719
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:28,720
comes back, but like it behooves you more to have

1720
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,640
a contract that you can send out in a trade,

1721
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,159
because then that's something as long as it's not terrible

1722
01:18:34,239 --> 01:18:36,439
as a salary anchor to match money, because we very

1723
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,560
rarely see even if you overload teams with draft equity,

1724
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:43,640
we very rarely see there's no players or salary whatsoever involved.

1725
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird too, Like you know, this is like

1726
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:50,720
a there's a certain archetype of a trade where it's

1727
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,279
what we're talking about, where a team that signed a

1728
01:18:53,319 --> 01:18:57,399
regrettable long term deal that will give up draft equity

1729
01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:59,319
to get off of it. And like a player in

1730
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:02,359
Simon's position, an expiring big salary would have been desirable

1731
01:19:02,359 --> 01:19:05,000
because Okay, we're gonna reset. The problem is the Nets

1732
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,600
are kind of a reset team. And then also like

1733
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:10,840
I'm trying to think what the this is where this

1734
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,000
is bad potting, but like, what's the last time we

1735
01:19:14,079 --> 01:19:16,960
had a trade where it was just it was clear

1736
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,520
that the motivation on one side was to just get

1737
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,319
off this deal. It might be like cause we're we're all,

1738
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:25,159
we're out, We're done with all the twenty sixteen contracts,

1739
01:19:25,199 --> 01:19:28,479
all those crazy ones with the capspike. Like I know

1740
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,520
there have been some maybe people believe these in the

1741
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,359
comments or let us know, Like I can't remember the

1742
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,039
last like we just have to get off this deal move.

1743
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:40,039
I guess it's deal maybe like is that the last one?

1744
01:19:40,359 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that was even sort of like he gave

1745
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:44,880
him a list of one destination, so it wasn't kind

1746
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,880
of that they wouldn't have I don't think taken the

1747
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:48,880
approach of let's just get off this deal unless he

1748
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,560
forced them to type of situation.

1749
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 2: So they're not as common as it seems like they

1750
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:55,319
used to be.

1751
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: Well there's one, but this might fall too far into

1752
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,359
did they get a good player you want to get

1753
01:19:59,359 --> 01:20:01,800
off a contract? We were just talking about him if

1754
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,840
he's gonna pick up that player option Ben Simmons and

1755
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:09,319
like Zaier Williams for Jimmy Butler. I'm kidding. I'm talking

1756
01:20:09,399 --> 01:20:11,640
cheeking there for anyone who didn't catch that. But yeah,

1757
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:13,760
I'm gonna call fiction here because I don't if the

1758
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,720
Nets wanted to get like let you Zach Lavine as

1759
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:18,720
an example to where okay, maybe the Bulls don't want

1760
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,199
that contract, but the Nets are what They're not gonna

1761
01:20:22,199 --> 01:20:24,239
trade him for nothing at this point, I wouldn't think

1762
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:25,920
and then Nets like, hey, we'll give you a first

1763
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,560
round pick, like we'll but they're just not in a

1764
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:30,479
I might call back to here, but I don't think

1765
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:32,159
they're on that type of trajectory.

1766
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:34,159
Speaker 2: You think he's gonna get bought out or he'll just

1767
01:20:34,279 --> 01:20:36,399
they'll just he'll just play the season and be a

1768
01:20:36,399 --> 01:20:36,920
free agent.

1769
01:20:38,119 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: I think he'll play the season and be a free agent. Yeah,

1770
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,720
just because I mean, man, imagine if he got well, no,

1771
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:46,159
because if he gets bought out, so a lot of

1772
01:20:46,199 --> 01:20:48,000
the teams he can't go to because he's making more

1773
01:20:48,039 --> 01:20:50,279
than the mid level. Exactly where's he where does he

1774
01:20:50,399 --> 01:20:52,640
end up? And how much money is he given back?

1775
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:53,760
Would also be the question.

1776
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,039
Speaker 2: Right if I'm him, I'm like, you're paying me every

1777
01:20:56,079 --> 01:21:00,359
penny of what of this contract? Because he can't he can't.

1778
01:21:00,079 --> 01:21:01,159
Speaker 1: Five percent on TUESDA this year.

1779
01:21:01,199 --> 01:21:05,000
Speaker 2: But they might just want to he I mean, for him,

1780
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:08,199
he's been like, Okay, he's been the most efficient from

1781
01:21:08,239 --> 01:21:11,439
the field he's ever been seven assists, Like he still

1782
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,960
is just like please look at the basket once in

1783
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,439
a while, like it's just infuriating to watch him. But

1784
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:18,239
but it's I don't know how he gets as many

1785
01:21:18,279 --> 01:21:19,840
assists as he gets. Anyway, let's move on.

1786
01:21:21,119 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: The Rockets will finish with a top six seed in

1787
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,039
the Western Conference factor fiction.

1788
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: Well, right now they have one, and there are a

1789
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:33,399
couple teams we'll talk about eventually here that you would

1790
01:21:33,399 --> 01:21:38,479
have pegged to be pretty comfortably above them that are not. Man,

1791
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:42,520
it's right on the border as I look at it.

1792
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:44,439
So let's look at who's below them right now? Is

1793
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,000
the Rockets sit fifth? You have Minnesota and Dallas, those

1794
01:21:47,039 --> 01:21:49,359
are the main Like, okay, well we assume they're going

1795
01:21:49,399 --> 01:21:52,760
to be better. Sacramento is below, Memphis is below, the

1796
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,279
Lakers are below. So and I don't think anyone would

1797
01:21:56,319 --> 01:22:00,000
say that the Rockets are likely to finish ahead of Denver, Phoenix,

1798
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:02,600
Golden State. Okay, see, all of whom are ahead of them.

1799
01:22:03,119 --> 01:22:05,520
So we're gonna need a couple of teams. We're gonna

1800
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:10,119
need two teams to jump them. I we can talk

1801
01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:13,119
about what's going well about the Rockets. My gut reaction

1802
01:22:13,279 --> 01:22:16,319
is just this is this is fiction because I think

1803
01:22:16,359 --> 01:22:19,239
there's too many good candidates to jump them. If and

1804
01:22:19,279 --> 01:22:22,960
that's that's the short answer. Now, this is a trade

1805
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,560
candidate team that might be one of the you know,

1806
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,239
on the short list. Well I know, but like, well, look,

1807
01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:33,680
I think it's a good thing. Because if if I'm Houston,

1808
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,600
I really want Iman Thompson and Tari Easton, who we've

1809
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:40,119
got featured in the graphic here conveniently to just play

1810
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:44,600
with Smith, Shengoun and Uh and Jalen Green just to

1811
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,720
kind of see what their defensive like insanity could do

1812
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,640
in a starting group with all those other young guys.

1813
01:22:51,119 --> 01:22:53,600
So like you're trading Vanfleeter Dylan Brooks. I think in

1814
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:57,039
that scenario total hypothetical, But like that's a good problem

1815
01:22:57,079 --> 01:22:59,000
if you're ready to move off of veterans because all

1816
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,319
your young guys are ready to play together this quickly.

1817
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:06,640
I I just I don't see. Just give me Minnesota

1818
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,039
and Dallas as my fifth and six teams in the

1819
01:23:09,039 --> 01:23:11,199
West right now, and then Houston seven like, and then

1820
01:23:11,199 --> 01:23:13,439
there's some other options. So I can't quite get there,

1821
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,279
even if I'm very much encouraged by almost everything that

1822
01:23:16,359 --> 01:23:17,760
Houston's done so far, I.

1823
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: Think it's fiction two and there and more. Actually we

1824
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,479
have a second type of rockets one after this. I

1825
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:25,600
just think of the math game here, and I don't

1826
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:28,319
it's super impressed what they're doing on defense. I'm and

1827
01:23:28,399 --> 01:23:31,560
Thompson's a monster, Tarr Eastan's a psychopath think Alprin Shangun

1828
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:33,319
has improved a lot defensively over the past couple of

1829
01:23:33,319 --> 01:23:38,239
seasons as well. I don't trust their offense. They're fine,

1830
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:40,640
like in terms of raw efficiency relative to where their

1831
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,039
defense is, but like your twenty ninth in effective field

1832
01:23:43,039 --> 01:23:46,439
goal percentage, you have like a lot of players are

1833
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:48,479
missing wide open threes at this point. You're not shooting

1834
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,039
well from three overall, and you don't I don't know

1835
01:23:51,079 --> 01:23:54,600
how invested they aren't improving that because I know he

1836
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,560
shot POI to start to seem like Cam Witmore doesn't

1837
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:57,840
get a lot of minutes, And then the bigger one

1838
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,600
would be Reed Shepherd, who I was listening to someone's

1839
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,159
complaining that he's not taking enough threes, and I guess, like,

1840
01:24:04,199 --> 01:24:06,840
all right, five point six per thirty six minutes isn't

1841
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,560
a lot. But when you have this dude on the court,

1842
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:10,159
like he's like, how do you want to take more

1843
01:24:10,199 --> 01:24:11,800
than two attempts per game? When he's like not on

1844
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,119
the court for a consistent amount of time. So if

1845
01:24:14,119 --> 01:24:16,479
they're not really invested in kind of drumming up the shooting,

1846
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:18,920
I do think there are things they could do organically.

1847
01:24:19,039 --> 01:24:21,079
Rocket stands were mad by the way I propose to

1848
01:24:21,199 --> 01:24:25,680
Jay Sean Tait and Jack Landale for Duncan Robinson swap.

1849
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,199
My thought process being like, get Duncan Robinson on this team,

1850
01:24:29,199 --> 01:24:31,520
and then because you've punted on cap space most likely

1851
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,600
now we just have that nineteen million dollar Duncan Robinson

1852
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,079
salary using a trade this year and they were fuming,

1853
01:24:37,239 --> 01:24:40,079
and I'm just like, all right, I wanted fair enough

1854
01:24:40,079 --> 01:24:41,680
to read it. Someone kept tagging me in it. So

1855
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:45,920
my old thing is and I don't have a problem

1856
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:47,600
with them saying we're just gonna ride with these guys

1857
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:49,680
will figure stuff, like they're they're at a weird point

1858
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:53,119
where they're so good, but like we're in what year

1859
01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:55,159
two of is this year two or three? V ma

1860
01:24:55,319 --> 01:24:58,399
Udoka It's year two, right, So it's not like they're

1861
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:00,920
super far along what I I'd like to see them do.

1862
01:25:01,119 --> 01:25:03,359
And maybe if we're both calling fiction here that might

1863
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:05,600
this might be a way to dum up organically spacing

1864
01:25:06,199 --> 01:25:08,119
or no, it should stay here. I don't know why

1865
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:11,840
they're playing Jabbari at center less this year in the

1866
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,159
non Shane Goon minutes. I understand you have Adams in

1867
01:25:14,399 --> 01:25:16,640
Landale for something like if you view him as someone

1868
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,960
who needs to play. But like, and I know Jabari

1869
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:20,680
hasn't had the best year, but in theory, that's a

1870
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,039
way to kind of open up the floor even more.

1871
01:25:23,039 --> 01:25:24,720
To way, Okay, maybe we're not gonna make a ton

1872
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,119
of threes still, but will the floor be more open?

1873
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,760
Defenses are gonna guard Jabari differently than they guard Steven

1874
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:34,560
Adams or or Josh Landale. So I that's something that's

1875
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:36,279
puzzled to me because I think that their offense has

1876
01:25:36,359 --> 01:25:38,479
room to be better. So it's all right, you're not

1877
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:40,640
playing Jabari at the five a ton and you're not

1878
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,680
playing Rechepher a ton at all. What are you viewing

1879
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,680
this season as then, just like we're gonna destroy you

1880
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,680
defensively by fire, And it's look, there's even I would argue,

1881
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:52,920
look at Tarry Easton, that dude can take more threes,

1882
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:54,760
Like there's room for him to take more threes in

1883
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:56,520
his game. He's shooting pretty well on them this season.

1884
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:58,479
I think he's like thirty eight percent or whatever. So

1885
01:25:59,119 --> 01:26:02,279
that's why I'm going here. I don't trust their offense,

1886
01:26:02,279 --> 01:26:04,119
which is a very weird thing to say about a

1887
01:26:04,199 --> 01:26:06,560
team that has Alpert and Jegun on it.

1888
01:26:07,359 --> 01:26:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned Jabari Smith, like

1889
01:26:11,279 --> 01:26:12,840
I had him as an X factor coming into the

1890
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,880
year because it was to me it was fairly foreseeable that,

1891
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,640
like this team is gonna need one, You're gonna need

1892
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:21,680
more than ninety nine possessions with him as center, which

1893
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,319
is all you've had so far, just because you can

1894
01:26:23,359 --> 01:26:25,960
get some different looks when Shngun's off the floor space

1895
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:29,039
at whatever, but two like they just aren't. You just

1896
01:26:29,199 --> 01:26:33,199
needed him to be the like premium spacing threat at

1897
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:35,640
a big forward or center spot that he looked like

1898
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:37,560
he was gonna becoming. He's making a quarter of his

1899
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:40,960
threes this year's twenty five percent, so like I do think,

1900
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:43,279
I mean I picked him as an X factor like

1901
01:26:43,359 --> 01:26:46,079
for this reason. If he shoots it really well and

1902
01:26:46,279 --> 01:26:49,119
just is making a big offensive impact, I wonder what

1903
01:26:49,279 --> 01:26:51,479
that does to our concerns about the team's offense as

1904
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:53,880
a whole, because that would be such a vital dimension

1905
01:26:54,199 --> 01:26:56,800
that I think, frankly, like Houston, I know, I did

1906
01:26:57,239 --> 01:26:59,920
thought was gonna be there. I just assume the tree

1907
01:27:00,039 --> 01:27:02,840
jectory would continue upward with him. And it's a dozen

1908
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,760
games into the year, so like he can have a

1909
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:06,800
hot week and we're right back to like, Okay, this

1910
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,880
guy is super imports and he's been great.

1911
01:27:10,159 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to interrupt, Grant, but would you like to

1912
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,359
take this next factor fiction.

1913
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:17,159
Speaker 2: A Tarr Easton Dan is already more important to the

1914
01:27:17,239 --> 01:27:19,600
Rockets future and less likely to be traded than Jabari

1915
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,319
Smith Junior. Man, we're catching Tari Easton at a good

1916
01:27:22,319 --> 01:27:25,840
time and Jabari Smith at a bad time for this conversation.

1917
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:29,359
Speaker 1: Well, I think Rockets fans to I'm not to their

1918
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:31,880
credit like they need credit, Like they were having this

1919
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:33,600
discussion for a while. We had some of our discord

1920
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,079
pointed out saying they thought Jabari was and I thought

1921
01:27:36,119 --> 01:27:38,920
that was wild, just because of what Jabari did this preseason,

1922
01:27:39,239 --> 01:27:41,800
what Jabari did last year, and then Tario was usually

1923
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:43,640
kind of dealing with a health problem, and I was

1924
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,399
thinking of what they need offensively, and it's just Tari,

1925
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:48,680
not that he's redundant, but they just have an embarrassment

1926
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:53,079
of defensive riches on this team. But man, so so.

1927
01:27:53,279 --> 01:27:57,199
Speaker 2: Easton, Let's let's talk through it. Ean is and and

1928
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,680
like this was foreseeable if he was could stay healthy,

1929
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:03,000
which he has for too a greater scentthan last year.

1930
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:07,159
Obviously one of the most disruptive defensive players in the league,

1931
01:28:07,319 --> 01:28:12,600
like just period, just super high energy. I mean he

1932
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:15,399
what was it against Golden State? He just won them

1933
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,680
a third quarter, Like the Warriors almost blew a thirty

1934
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,520
point lead and lost that game because he just kept

1935
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:24,319
getting steals and layups like that's just what he can do.

1936
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,600
I still think I still think the potential Smith has

1937
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:33,640
and maybe I'm overrating it to be a really good

1938
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:38,800
offensive stretch piece that I still think can develop into

1939
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:40,399
someone that's going to get a lot of his own

1940
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:43,119
shots and just has like this offensive ceiling. Now maybe

1941
01:28:43,119 --> 01:28:45,319
I'm just wrong about that, and if that's the case,

1942
01:28:45,359 --> 01:28:48,560
then this is probably fact. I still default to, like

1943
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:54,960
the super high energy defensive I don't know, semi positionless

1944
01:28:55,199 --> 01:28:59,840
forward is awesome, helps every team, but like the potential

1945
01:29:00,239 --> 01:29:03,199
what Smith could be I think is just rarer and

1946
01:29:03,359 --> 01:29:07,439
maybe more valuable, like as like a top end piece.

1947
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,800
And if Smith can't get there, and I'm just wrong

1948
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,000
that he can get close to that, then then this

1949
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:15,119
is fact. I'm not sure I'm ready to like render

1950
01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:15,760
judgment on.

1951
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: That yet, So you're saying fiction.

1952
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,159
Speaker 2: I think it's fiction. And then and maybe I'm just wrong.

1953
01:29:20,199 --> 01:29:23,239
Speaker 1: We finally disagree. I think it's fact, and it's it

1954
01:29:23,359 --> 01:29:25,279
has less to do with how I feel about Jabari

1955
01:29:25,399 --> 01:29:28,680
moving forward and more. Okay, you've invested in alphahrein Shangun,

1956
01:29:29,159 --> 01:29:33,039
You've invested in Aman Thompson, and look, it's worked defensively

1957
01:29:33,079 --> 01:29:35,159
with those two. The offense does not look great when

1958
01:29:35,239 --> 01:29:36,680
both of those guys are on the floor. They have

1959
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,319
their moments, but the rockets are shooting like twenty five

1960
01:29:39,359 --> 01:29:41,640
percent on three with those two on the court, not

1961
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,800
making enough of them and their offense. By the way,

1962
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:46,000
when you add Jabari into the fold, with those two

1963
01:29:46,399 --> 01:29:47,920
only one hundred and twenty possessions, but it's in the

1964
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:50,319
zero fith percentile, and so you're starting to run into

1965
01:29:50,359 --> 01:29:53,560
a math game. Of those are three guys, all who

1966
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,600
are extremely talented, two of whom I would say, like

1967
01:29:56,680 --> 01:30:00,479
can arguably hit threes. Defenses don't care. No, none of

1968
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:02,039
those are guys the defense are gonna care about. And

1969
01:30:02,079 --> 01:30:04,199
Tari Easan might be viewed in the same vein, but

1970
01:30:04,279 --> 01:30:07,520
he's gonna take more threes or and like he's gonna

1971
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:09,319
hit a higher percentage of them as well. And so

1972
01:30:09,359 --> 01:30:11,840
I think you factor that into where you've already invested

1973
01:30:12,239 --> 01:30:14,840
in alphn Schangun moving forward, and you have this very

1974
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:19,640
specific talent type in Aman Thompson. The path to Jabari

1975
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,239
Smith Junior being more valuable would be, well, we think

1976
01:30:22,279 --> 01:30:25,319
that he's our backup center, which the Rockets don't necessarily

1977
01:30:25,319 --> 01:30:27,640
seem like they view him as that primarily. Or two,

1978
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,279
he's just in so much of his threes that he's

1979
01:30:29,319 --> 01:30:31,640
more of a valuable floor spacer than some of these

1980
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,920
other guys. Look, they could decide that both Fred Vane

1981
01:30:35,039 --> 01:30:36,439
and Dylan Brooks are the ones to go, and we're

1982
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,039
gonna pay everybody. They're not gonna actually do that though,

1983
01:30:39,119 --> 01:30:40,520
Like we've you and I have been doing this a

1984
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:42,319
long time. That's not how this is gonna work out.

1985
01:30:42,319 --> 01:30:44,840
They're gonna end up choosing between guys. I think it's

1986
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,840
been boiled down to Atari Jabari thing. Maybe it doesn't

1987
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:49,640
end up hitting, maybe Jalen Green gets traded over the

1988
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,640
offseason and the complexion of their future changes. But I

1989
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,119
think is of right now for what they need, and

1990
01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:57,319
then based off what we've now seen them do, and

1991
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:00,399
I would say just based off how they've used Bari.

1992
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,600
I think it is a fact. Man, I hope I

1993
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:06,800
hope New Orleans calls them too, if that's what you're going.

1994
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:13,399
Speaker 2: To say, I just I can't quit Jabbari's potential. But potential,

1995
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:16,000
by the way, well yeah, I mean, I guess like

1996
01:31:16,119 --> 01:31:19,119
to use the word I used incorrectly for another Rockets player.

1997
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:24,199
I would just hope that that that Smith proves undeniable

1998
01:31:24,239 --> 01:31:26,119
as an offensive player at some point, and just like

1999
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,399
if that, if that Eastan has outshot and outscored him

2000
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:33,479
this year, and for damn sure has been a bigger

2001
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:36,239
defensive difference maker. So like, there's no case at the

2002
01:31:36,319 --> 01:31:39,680
moment that Smith has been better than Eastan. I just can't.

2003
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,600
I can't. I I the shooting is just so tantalizing,

2004
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:46,399
and the offensive potential is there. I don't know, do you?

2005
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:48,720
Is it your sense that Rockets fans are just lower

2006
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:52,800
on on Smith's offensive upside than I continue to be.

2007
01:31:54,239 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: I have no comment on Rockets, got it? No? I

2008
01:31:58,039 --> 01:32:01,439
just think they like any fan base, you go through

2009
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:03,920
the motions where the sentiment on Jabari last year felt

2010
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:05,279
like it was super high and impressive.

2011
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 2: It's so fickle, you know, That's why they started this

2012
01:32:08,079 --> 01:32:10,239
with it's the right time to talk about this for

2013
01:32:10,319 --> 01:32:11,680
Easton because he's been so good.

2014
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:15,600
Speaker 1: It's fickle also because though like part of why not

2015
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,439
that this wouldn't be a decision, but would we view

2016
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:19,720
it through a different lens where because this isn't happening

2017
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,359
yet Grant and he's not like forget about whether he's

2018
01:32:22,399 --> 01:32:25,439
starting or not. But like the minutes per game that

2019
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:28,439
Ahmed Thompson is playing, and he has started one game

2020
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:31,079
this season, they're not so high like he's had a

2021
01:32:31,159 --> 01:32:33,880
few thirty plus performances, But you're eventually gonna want Ahmed

2022
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,760
Thompson to just be a thirty minute per game player

2023
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,600
and I'm assuming it every night starter at some point. Now.

2024
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,319
Who makes more sense for this roster moving forward? I

2025
01:32:42,359 --> 01:32:45,000
think you could argue, well, Easan is gonna be the

2026
01:32:45,079 --> 01:32:47,039
cleaner offensive it right now. But also if you need

2027
01:32:47,119 --> 01:32:49,239
to start, if you need to continue to or start

2028
01:32:49,319 --> 01:32:51,760
bringing someone off the bench, like Ethan isn't someone who

2029
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,840
technically needs to start where it's with Jabari, are you

2030
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:56,600
gonna then bring him off the bench? I guess in

2031
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,239
theory you could, but that's not something that they've explored yet.

2032
01:32:59,239 --> 01:33:01,800
And I'm also wondering if that contributes to this at all.

2033
01:33:02,199 --> 01:33:03,399
Speaker 2: It could definitely be a factor.

2034
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:06,079
Speaker 1: I'm glad we disagreed finally. Our next one, which is

2035
01:33:06,159 --> 01:33:10,000
mine grant, the Dallas Mavericks are going to be fine.

2036
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:11,359
Factor fiction.

2037
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 2: I gotta go fact. I mean, like, it's just imagine

2038
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:18,479
where we are if Luca Luca had a good game

2039
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,239
against Utah, which except for the last it's where he

2040
01:33:21,319 --> 01:33:23,920
forgot about John Ballins being on the basketball court and

2041
01:33:24,039 --> 01:33:28,000
let him dunk to win the game. Not great. He

2042
01:33:28,119 --> 01:33:30,079
hasn't shot at all. He hasn't shot it well all year.

2043
01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:32,479
There's he's got a growing issue he's fighting through like

2044
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,279
that kind of stuff. Dallas is five and seven as

2045
01:33:35,319 --> 01:33:37,640
we record this. They're in the top ten on offense

2046
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,359
and defense, and almost nothing's gone right. So like I, I,

2047
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,119
you know, I I guess you could be concerned. You know,

2048
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:49,319
Klay Thompson has kind of continued looking like a diminished

2049
01:33:49,359 --> 01:33:51,199
version of himself over year, but.

2050
01:33:51,279 --> 01:33:54,119
Speaker 1: He's been exactly I would say, like what you thought

2051
01:33:54,159 --> 01:33:56,520
you were going to get? Like what else were they expecting?

2052
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:59,520
Speaker 2: I kind of assumed teams thought they were going to

2053
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:01,800
get a better, better player than he was for Golden

2054
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,000
State last year and he's been roughly the same or

2055
01:34:04,039 --> 01:34:05,399
a little bit worse. But good point.

2056
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 1: PJ.

2057
01:34:06,079 --> 01:34:08,560
Speaker 2: Washington hasn't played a munch. They just don't win when

2058
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:11,159
he's not in the lineup. I'm just trying to like

2059
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:13,439
poke holes. But ultimately, it's just you have Luca, you

2060
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:15,520
have Kyrie, you have a bunch of size on the

2061
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,359
winging forward spots. You got two bigs you can trust. Like,

2062
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:22,279
what's our issue here? It's just their Their point differential

2063
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:24,279
is that of a team that should have like almost

2064
01:34:24,319 --> 01:34:26,640
three more wins than they do, and the offense and

2065
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:30,399
defense are both top Like, I can't it's way too now.

2066
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:32,880
If we go another month and they're under five hundred,

2067
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:34,880
we can talk, But I'm just not. I can't get there.

2068
01:34:35,199 --> 01:34:37,680
Speaker 1: I can't get there. I'm MAVs fans seem concerned after

2069
01:34:37,720 --> 01:34:39,239
the Jazz loss, and they I saw a few of

2070
01:34:39,279 --> 01:34:41,439
them go in on that and by the way, but

2071
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,039
hell yeah, like that's like I want to see you

2072
01:34:44,079 --> 01:34:45,960
going on this team for the effort level on defense,

2073
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,399
but look at some of the stuff that has been

2074
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:52,319
beyond their control, like Luca dealing with the injury, always

2075
01:34:52,359 --> 01:34:55,239
bleeding apparently just like his efficiency everywhere away from the

2076
01:34:55,279 --> 01:34:57,520
basket is falling off a cliff that's not going to stand.

2077
01:34:57,600 --> 01:34:59,439
We've even seen this happen before, maybe not to this

2078
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:01,640
degree where he kind of starts slow than He's just

2079
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:04,680
amazing Kyrie, He's been fantastic before. He missed that Utah

2080
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:07,399
Jazz game. You already mentioned it. PJ. Washington miss time,

2081
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,800
the fact that their top ten in defense, he's missed time.

2082
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,119
Derek Lively the second has missed time. Daniel Gafford looks

2083
01:35:13,159 --> 01:35:16,560
worse this year to me defensively, by the way, you

2084
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:19,479
also have PJ. Washington and Naji Marshall are shooting like

2085
01:35:19,880 --> 01:35:23,640
zero percent on wide open threes. Basically Luca again, history

2086
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:25,720
point percentage will tick up some of the things.

2087
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: Do you have?

2088
01:35:26,079 --> 01:35:28,279
Speaker 1: Can you have questions about their overall bench rotation. I

2089
01:35:28,399 --> 01:35:30,920
think Clay's been better for the mass and Golden State

2090
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:32,840
in the sense like he's not I don't want to

2091
01:35:33,039 --> 01:35:35,279
use the word hijack, but like there's not an existential

2092
01:35:35,319 --> 01:35:36,439
crisis going on with him.

2093
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,479
Speaker 2: That is a fair word, by the way, Like he's

2094
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:41,439
not he's not like relentlessly shot hunting quite the same,

2095
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:42,079
quite the same.

2096
01:35:42,199 --> 01:35:44,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's it feels like it's more within the flow

2097
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:46,239
of things, and yet there's going to be I think

2098
01:35:46,319 --> 01:35:49,079
the inherent he's older, what happens defensively, and then just

2099
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:51,680
those shots he takes, like you're just gonna be subject

2100
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,000
to more wild swings. In my book, I just you

2101
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:58,039
said it what has gone right, and I would say

2102
01:35:58,279 --> 01:36:01,479
Kyrie and that's about it for them. The other thing

2103
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:03,560
that I would, now, if you're interested in the concerns,

2104
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:05,319
the two things I would point out do I think

2105
01:36:05,399 --> 01:36:08,359
Luca's gonna shoot better in the clutch, absolutely, but like

2106
01:36:09,079 --> 01:36:10,920
at some point, I know clutches it could be a

2107
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:12,920
lot of randomized stuff, but one in six in crunch

2108
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,239
time to start the season not great, Bob. And then

2109
01:36:15,279 --> 01:36:18,880
the actual bigger concern for me, and we've seen this

2110
01:36:19,039 --> 01:36:21,880
kind of reverse maybe by force over the past two games.

2111
01:36:22,239 --> 01:36:25,199
There's no reason that Spencer Dinwidy should be ahead of

2112
01:36:25,399 --> 01:36:27,279
Quentin Grimes in the rotation. I know he got to

2113
01:36:27,319 --> 01:36:30,560
start against Utah, I believe, but like, what is Jason

2114
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,359
kids con plain about his bench, and like, I don't

2115
01:36:32,359 --> 01:36:35,159
think Quenton Grime has been terrible this year, So I

2116
01:36:35,359 --> 01:36:38,000
like it feels like there's some low hanging fruit for

2117
01:36:38,119 --> 01:36:39,760
the mask to still kind of clean up if you

2118
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:43,399
were gonna isolate. Though, for me a concern and say,

2119
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,920
like this is something we really need to worry about.

2120
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:50,159
Do they have like enough like they might need another

2121
01:36:50,279 --> 01:36:53,479
offensive creator where it's is it Dinwitdy? Is it? Is

2122
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,720
it going to be Jay and Hardy? Probably not Dante

2123
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:57,760
Exham's injured this year, probably wouldn't have been him anyway.

2124
01:36:57,760 --> 01:36:59,520
And if Luca's gonna continue to be up and down

2125
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,800
or injured, and I'm talking about that's not Clay Thompson's role.

2126
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:04,600
I know some mass fans thought it might be like no,

2127
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:07,840
like please stop. It's definitely not PJ. Washington's role. He's

2128
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,239
got kind of the nifty floater sometimes. But they might

2129
01:37:10,359 --> 01:37:12,640
need and I guess the concern would be do they

2130
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,479
need like a higher end like third offensive weapon than

2131
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,479
we would have expected coming into this season. I would

2132
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:21,840
call that fiction as well. But it's like when we

2133
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,239
were thinking in terms of I'm just trying to like

2134
01:37:24,319 --> 01:37:26,880
think of like a cheap example, like well, Peyton Pritchard

2135
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:28,479
would be good for this team, but now it's become no,

2136
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:31,399
they need like an Aaron Wiggins type player, then then

2137
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:34,000
we need to have a different discussion, So does everybody.

2138
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 2: Everybody needs an Aaron Wiggins would I would flag though

2139
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:39,239
I don't know. I don't know what to make of this.

2140
01:37:39,359 --> 01:37:42,560
But Jason Kidd had some recent comments and it seemed

2141
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:44,439
like they may have been in context of, like it

2142
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:46,920
was difficult for Clay to make the Golden State return,

2143
01:37:47,039 --> 01:37:48,880
and he was just talking about, like, these our guys

2144
01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:51,439
are players too, there's off the court things going on,

2145
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:55,520
They're mentally fatigued. It seemed to be referencing something more

2146
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:57,720
than just how difficult it was for Clay to make

2147
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:00,840
the return to Chase Center last week. I and like,

2148
01:38:01,359 --> 01:38:03,800
I just wonder what that is. I don't maybe there's

2149
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,760
a vibe vibe issue here. Maybe there's some off court,

2150
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:08,720
you know, difficulties some of these guys are going through.

2151
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:10,840
It was a it was a weird allusion by him

2152
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,479
to something I hadn't really heard about before. Maybe Dallas

2153
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,560
fans have a better sense of what any of that is.

2154
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:18,000
But like, I don't know if if you're trying to

2155
01:38:18,079 --> 01:38:21,159
concern troll, I guess, like maybe that's something, but this

2156
01:38:21,359 --> 01:38:23,359
is this is this is fact. I think they're gonna

2157
01:38:23,399 --> 01:38:23,680
be fine.

2158
01:38:24,079 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 1: Next one up, the Minnesota Timberwolves.

2159
01:38:26,039 --> 01:38:29,760
Speaker 2: Mister use Minnesota Timberwolves are also gonna be fine. Dan,

2160
01:38:31,399 --> 01:38:33,199
I'll call so.

2161
01:38:33,399 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, if you had to pick which team

2162
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:36,880
you're more concerned about, that might be interesting. I think

2163
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,840
they're gonna be fine as well. The turnovers are definitely

2164
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:41,399
an issue. They're an abomination.

2165
01:38:42,079 --> 01:38:42,199
Speaker 2: Uh.

2166
01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:44,680
Speaker 1: I think that it would also help if Mike Conley

2167
01:38:45,399 --> 01:38:47,399
was shooting better on a nightly basis. He's had a

2168
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:50,720
couple better games of late. But the fact that you

2169
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,439
have that in conjunction with okay, the spacing is already

2170
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:55,800
it's not weirder, but like Andy Edwards is taking a

2171
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:57,600
ton of th reason making them because he has to.

2172
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,720
Like this is I would argue it's a evolution, but

2173
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:02,920
it's also a necessary one based on the makeup of

2174
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:05,600
their roster. Jade McDaniels, we know he can shoot better

2175
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:07,960
from three, but he's not gonna take any more of them,

2176
01:39:08,039 --> 01:39:10,039
so there's been just some oddity and awkwardness on the

2177
01:39:10,079 --> 01:39:13,159
offensive end. Dante DiVincenzo still really hasn't gone on an

2178
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:16,239
extended run. But that's why I name all those things,

2179
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:19,560
the turnovers, even the transition defense. They've talked about a

2180
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:23,079
lot because after they're committing a turnover, they're getting slammed

2181
01:39:23,279 --> 01:39:25,319
by post. That's that tends to happen, but they've been

2182
01:39:25,359 --> 01:39:28,039
worse than the league average in that as well. I

2183
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:31,720
just think they have the personnel in house to fix

2184
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:35,079
most of this. Now, if you think that Comedy has

2185
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:38,039
just dropped off and this is okay, he's thirty seven

2186
01:39:38,439 --> 01:39:40,960
and he's getting older, and then you really just okay,

2187
01:39:41,079 --> 01:39:43,560
that's bad because our connective tissue on the offensive end. Yeah,

2188
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,680
Julius Randall can do some playmaking, even Dante Devincenzo, we

2189
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:48,680
know what Aunt can do. But like, no, like the

2190
01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:51,399
theory of having Mike Comedy is he's super important. We

2191
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:54,920
know Rob Dillingham isn't ready. Maybe that would be the Okay,

2192
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:57,520
it's time to be concerned. But I need to give

2193
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:01,000
this team more time because even with defensive I just

2194
01:40:01,119 --> 01:40:02,720
I think they have the personnel to fix it. And

2195
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:07,880
maybe it gets to the discussion needs to be is

2196
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:09,439
it time to change up some of the lineups and

2197
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:11,680
the rotations. Where does Donte Evincenzo need to get nods

2198
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,640
over Mike Conley or even over Julius Randall at points?

2199
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,359
But again that's still tinkering in house.

2200
01:40:18,079 --> 01:40:22,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I lean that way too. I will say, like,

2201
01:40:24,079 --> 01:40:27,039
so they're six and six and obviously that that's just

2202
01:40:27,159 --> 01:40:29,800
not what the results were expected to be. I thought

2203
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:31,880
it was really interesting that so John Krazinski for The

2204
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,079
Athletic wrote the other day and this is this was

2205
01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:37,159
after the first loss to the Blazers, not that the

2206
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:41,000
second one in a back to back set. Really was

2207
01:40:41,079 --> 01:40:44,359
calling out like just how the Wolves aren't playing with

2208
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:48,159
the same fight and fire and like prove it mentality

2209
01:40:48,199 --> 01:40:50,399
that they had a year ago. And like, my intent

2210
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:52,960
always goes up with stuff like that, because whenever coaches

2211
01:40:53,039 --> 01:40:55,479
talk about like we're not fighting hard enough, it's always

2212
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,000
like this is bullshit, Like there's always something tactical you

2213
01:40:58,039 --> 01:41:00,840
should be talking about or tweaking a lineup or whatever.

2214
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:03,479
Like this whole like they're not trying hard enough always

2215
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,279
just falls so flat to me. You know. It's like

2216
01:41:05,359 --> 01:41:07,199
the type of thing coaches say when they're actually out

2217
01:41:07,239 --> 01:41:09,159
of ideas a lot of the time. Not putting that

2218
01:41:09,239 --> 01:41:12,039
on Krasinski, like, I think like nobody's more tapped into

2219
01:41:12,079 --> 01:41:14,920
like what the whole Wolves experience is. I do believe,

2220
01:41:15,079 --> 01:41:17,479
and I think you've seen it. There's not the same

2221
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:20,439
edge to use like another kind of you know whatever,

2222
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:22,119
Like what does that term even mean?

2223
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 1: But like they want it as much.

2224
01:41:24,199 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 2: Do they want That's what it is. We just don't

2225
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,560
want it. We're not out there compete, like, okay, we're

2226
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:30,279
all professionals. I do think like you you can just

2227
01:41:31,079 --> 01:41:33,600
flip it and say, like, we're not getting back on

2228
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:36,720
live rebounds. Teams are getting too many easy transition looks

2229
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:39,640
in situations where it's just like, if you're just disciplined,

2230
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:42,000
get back, Like then the turnover stuff, there's all these

2231
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,399
you know, actually more helpful areas you could point to

2232
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:47,359
that they should get better at. And I do just

2233
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:49,439
chalk a lot of that up to you made a

2234
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:52,199
massive trade that changed the makeup of your team, like

2235
01:41:52,319 --> 01:41:55,079
at the eleventh hour, and we don't know where everybody

2236
01:41:55,159 --> 01:41:57,560
wants to be, like and the guys that you got,

2237
01:41:58,119 --> 01:42:00,800
like Randall falls asleep on defense or just stand still

2238
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:03,520
all the time, that that's somewhat expected, but he's also

2239
01:42:03,560 --> 01:42:05,199
delivering a lot of what you want on on offense,

2240
01:42:05,239 --> 01:42:10,920
Dante e Vincenzo has not been the shots. They'll make shots,

2241
01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:17,159
So I understand the concern, but this is also fact

2242
01:42:17,279 --> 01:42:19,920
I just think like you said it right, like they're

2243
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:22,000
just in house solutions to all this stuff, and and

2244
01:42:22,279 --> 01:42:26,119
and I don't I think it would be in some ways,

2245
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:27,880
it might have been a bigger surprise if they just

2246
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,720
hit the ground running and we're like eleven and one

2247
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:32,720
or whatever because of the changes.

2248
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:32,840
Speaker 1: That they make.

2249
01:42:33,239 --> 01:42:36,720
Speaker 2: One thing that is an issue the rim protection. Now

2250
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:39,520
they're overall like rim attempt frequency and accuracy allowed or

2251
01:42:40,159 --> 01:42:44,159
not critical or not critically terrible. But like withnas Reed

2252
01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:46,960
and Julius Randall as your backup like bigs, they're just

2253
01:42:47,079 --> 01:42:49,920
they're allowing over sixty percent shooting by opponents at the rim,

2254
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:52,039
like it's you know, even Rudy Gobert is at fifty

2255
01:42:52,079 --> 01:42:55,560
five percent. I think certainly Gobert's number is probably coming down.

2256
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:58,319
But those two guys, that's an issue that you know,

2257
01:42:58,399 --> 01:43:01,119
we would love, you'd love to have more defensive integrity,

2258
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:03,119
especially from a team that ran away with the lead

2259
01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:06,119
and defensive efficiency last year. I'm not gonna worry under

2260
01:43:06,119 --> 01:43:10,239
Miller time, Leonard Miller, Josh might not get him out there.

2261
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:12,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not worried either. So I'm gonna call this

2262
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:15,119
a fact as well. It is to see the Knicks

2263
01:43:15,159 --> 01:43:17,920
and them make such sizemic trays and then neither one

2264
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:19,600
of them is off to You could say, yeah, I

2265
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,800
was always gotta take time, But I would say neither

2266
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,439
one of them are off to encouraging starts. Sure, yeah,

2267
01:43:24,479 --> 01:43:26,840
that's more confident in I'm more confident in the Wolves

2268
01:43:26,840 --> 01:43:27,279
at this point.

2269
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:29,159
Speaker 2: Not really, I'm more confident in Dallas.

2270
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I meant the Knicks or the Wolves.

2271
01:43:32,039 --> 01:43:35,920
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Uh, probably the Wolves actually, because because where

2272
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:37,720
where do the Knicks turn? They just don't have other

2273
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:38,960
guys to play like this.

2274
01:43:39,239 --> 01:43:41,600
Speaker 1: Just this is the team they allegedly will at some point,

2275
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:43,640
but we'll have to wait. I think I would agree

2276
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:46,079
with you. I'm probably more concerned about the Wolves relative

2277
01:43:46,119 --> 01:43:48,880
to Dallas though, but the concerned level for both again,

2278
01:43:49,039 --> 01:43:50,479
come talk to me in a couple of weeks. But

2279
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:53,279
right now, it's just it's incredibly low for both teams.

2280
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:57,079
Next up, this one's mine. Oh, the Los Angeles Clippers

2281
01:43:57,119 --> 01:43:59,720
are a threat in the West fact or fiction?

2282
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 2: I mean a threat. So I just want to.

2283
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are hunting around five hundred. Their defense is

2284
01:44:10,039 --> 01:44:11,880
I don't know this would be the appropriate word, their

2285
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:15,880
defense is hell fire, and they don't have Kawhi Leonard,

2286
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:18,239
who we assume will play at some point this season.

2287
01:44:18,319 --> 01:44:21,479
If he does, the offense gets a lot more intriguing because, oh,

2288
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:24,840
Norman Powell's now your third option instead of your second.

2289
01:44:25,399 --> 01:44:27,640
Things get easier on James Harden, who has not played

2290
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:30,560
when you look at his efficiency up to snuff. And

2291
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:32,720
so you gotta look at this seam. And we thought

2292
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:34,960
they were gonna be an abomination just collected. We thought

2293
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:36,119
they were going to be so bad. We said the

2294
01:44:36,159 --> 01:44:38,680
defense would be good. It's been great, and we just

2295
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:40,760
thought they were gonna suck. They have not sucked, And

2296
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:45,000
so I'm wondering here the factor fiction would be unless

2297
01:44:45,039 --> 01:44:46,560
you think Kawhi is not gonna play, or that he's

2298
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:48,119
never really going to be available, or that they wouldn't

2299
01:44:48,119 --> 01:44:50,399
be willing to make a trade, Like could they just

2300
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:53,800
be a playoff team like a top six team that

2301
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,199
or party crashed the top eight to where they're one

2302
01:44:56,239 --> 01:44:59,399
of the better playing teams, because the offense is at

2303
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:01,159
least position to get better, and when you view it

2304
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:02,960
through the lens of well, they could still make a trade,

2305
01:45:03,279 --> 01:45:05,199
or to Kawhi Leonard might just come back, and oh,

2306
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:07,680
you have one of the you know, ten to fifteen

2307
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:11,399
most valuable players in basketball for however long he's available.

2308
01:45:12,319 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 2: I think because they're still like, I know, the record

2309
01:45:17,039 --> 01:45:18,640
is way better than we thought it would be, but

2310
01:45:19,279 --> 01:45:21,800
and Powell has done much more than we thought he

2311
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:24,000
would And even if it's the Zubots has just been better.

2312
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,760
I think, like their profile of man. This offense is

2313
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:30,239
rough and Kawhi is hurt, and the defense is good,

2314
01:45:30,399 --> 01:45:33,520
like matches up closely enough to what we kind of

2315
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,479
expected prior to the season that I'm not really ready

2316
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:43,079
to adjust what I thought they would be overall, which

2317
01:45:43,159 --> 01:45:47,079
is to say, like, I think I'm leaning fiction just

2318
01:45:47,199 --> 01:45:51,159
because if the way, if the way this sustains or

2319
01:45:51,239 --> 01:45:53,840
gets better as Kawhi Leonard is consistently healthy, I'm not

2320
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:56,720
ready to view that as like a likelihood. And I

2321
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,800
think I think Harden, like this team turns it over

2322
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:03,840
a shit ton. Harden is a back around thirty percent usage,

2323
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:06,520
which he hasn't really touched since his Houston days, and

2324
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,439
I'm just not comfortable with that. And his efficiencies is

2325
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:11,479
you know, not very good, which is what we would

2326
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:14,960
have expected. I think the offense is pretty flimsy, and

2327
01:46:15,159 --> 01:46:18,119
Leonard coming back can help that when he's in the lineup,

2328
01:46:18,199 --> 01:46:20,760
probably assuming he gets like ramped up and then is

2329
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:23,239
able to stay out there consistently to get catch a rhythm.

2330
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:25,399
I don't know how likely that is. So I think

2331
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:27,319
the offense is going to just be a problem. And

2332
01:46:27,399 --> 01:46:30,159
then you know, we've praised Norm Powell plenty, but I

2333
01:46:30,159 --> 01:46:31,760
don't think he's going to continue to be this good.

2334
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:36,479
So defensively I buy it. Offensively I sell it, and

2335
01:46:37,119 --> 01:46:39,279
I think it's just this is still close enough to

2336
01:46:39,359 --> 01:46:41,800
what we thought to me to where and I didn't

2337
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,359
think the Clippers were a threat in the West, and

2338
01:46:43,399 --> 01:46:44,439
I'm not going to flip on that.

2339
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:48,159
Speaker 1: Yet, so I'm gonna go fact in the sense of

2340
01:46:48,279 --> 01:46:49,680
I view them as more of a threat than the

2341
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:54,359
Rockets in the like, Wow, okay, we don't think the

2342
01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:56,439
Rockets are going to make the move, and we've what

2343
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:58,920
it wears the offense then getting better all of a sudden.

2344
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 2: Our my guy Jr. Bar Smith Junior makes more than

2345
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:04,079
twenty five percent of his threes, and.

2346
01:47:04,079 --> 01:47:05,920
Speaker 1: Guess what, he was better last year and their offense

2347
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:08,039
still wasn't that great. Yeah, So it's just like with

2348
01:47:08,199 --> 01:47:09,920
the Clippers, I look at it as Okay, so you're

2349
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:12,520
gonna take like, look at your core lineup, Kawhi Leonard

2350
01:47:12,600 --> 01:47:15,079
comes back for any stretch of time, and just the

2351
01:47:15,159 --> 01:47:18,359
fact that that potential addition is open and we don't

2352
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:22,079
think that's going to happen with the Rockets. Kawhi Lender's

2353
01:47:22,119 --> 01:47:24,720
gonna come back, and now you're playing him what instead

2354
01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:27,079
of I'm assuming Powell will still start when he comes back.

2355
01:47:27,159 --> 01:47:29,520
So I guess Chris Dunn or do you take out

2356
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:32,880
Derek Jones that's an area or would Norm Powell come

2357
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:36,079
off the bench regardless, it's just you insert Kawhi Leonard

2358
01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:40,760
into any of their base lineups. Holy shit, Like that

2359
01:47:41,079 --> 01:47:43,600
fixes the offense, Like it makes life easier on James

2360
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:45,720
Harden when we get easier on Norm Powell to make

2361
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:47,960
it easier even if Norm Powell is the one that's

2362
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:49,960
not on the floor, because Kawhi is someone who's gonna

2363
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:52,199
generate his shots in a different way and more of

2364
01:47:52,239 --> 01:47:55,319
his own shots than a Norm Powell might. So I'm

2365
01:47:55,319 --> 01:47:57,800
gonna say, do I think that they're gonna finish in

2366
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:00,119
the top six? I would call that fiction. But if

2367
01:48:00,159 --> 01:48:02,720
you're asking me, do I think that they could be

2368
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:05,520
a time like are they more likely to be a

2369
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:07,800
threat in the West than Like, let's go through the

2370
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:09,399
list of teams, and if we're gonna use the Rockets

2371
01:48:09,399 --> 01:48:11,279
the basically, I will take them over the Rockets right now.

2372
01:48:12,199 --> 01:48:15,199
Speaker 2: I just I can see, I can see the upside

2373
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:19,359
and it's really it's just Leonard. And for that reason,

2374
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:21,800
I'm out, Like I can't. I can't, like I can't

2375
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:25,119
trust that Leonard is gonna come back and be impactful.

2376
01:48:25,159 --> 01:48:27,600
Like if it happens, I'm I'll be ecstatic, because great,

2377
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:30,279
we want the best players to play and be healthy.

2378
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,039
On a personal standpoint, like really hope that he this

2379
01:48:33,239 --> 01:48:36,880
is something he could get through and whatever, I just don't.

2380
01:48:37,199 --> 01:48:38,960
I'm gonna need to see it for a long time

2381
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:41,640
or a long chunk of the season before I get

2382
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:42,079
on board.

2383
01:48:42,279 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 1: What do we have next, mister Rad Hughes.

2384
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:48,319
Speaker 2: Dan multiple teams will trade first round picks in twenty

2385
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:51,479
twenty nine or later factor fiction, So.

2386
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:53,560
Speaker 1: Let's go through the candidates really quickly. I would say

2387
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:55,399
the Lakers and the Suns because those are the two

2388
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:58,640
teams that are pictured here or there. The Bucks have

2389
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:02,079
a twenty thirty one pick that they could trade. Who

2390
01:49:02,119 --> 01:49:03,680
else would be a team that you could see trade

2391
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:05,920
like they have have won in the thirties. They could

2392
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:07,760
trade their twenty thirty one first round pick, so they

2393
01:49:07,800 --> 01:49:09,680
would be they would be in there. And there are

2394
01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:11,359
obviously other teams that could trade it. But I'm looking

2395
01:49:11,359 --> 01:49:13,560
at the candidates that might be good enough to consider it.

2396
01:49:14,079 --> 01:49:20,560
Minnesota can't Golden State, right, they got they could trade

2397
01:49:21,199 --> 01:49:24,439
about like they clearly haven't punted on twenty thirty because

2398
01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:27,399
it's top twenty protected. But if you dangled, like, well,

2399
01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:30,039
we'll give you the bottom ten protected first round or

2400
01:49:30,039 --> 01:49:32,560
in twenty thirty. So yeah, Golden State in theory, maybe

2401
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:36,000
a team that would look at that, the Clippers, that

2402
01:49:36,039 --> 01:49:38,920
would be like, you know, I'm closed. And by the way,

2403
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:42,079
both fans were mad about this, I'm not saying that

2404
01:49:42,159 --> 01:49:44,359
this like if you could get the Clippers pick in

2405
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:46,960
twenty thirty along with Terrence Man, you at least think

2406
01:49:47,039 --> 01:49:50,239
about trading Kobe White, right, Yeah.

2407
01:49:50,119 --> 01:49:52,000
Speaker 2: I mean for the reasons we've talked about of like

2408
01:49:52,079 --> 01:49:53,479
it's hard they can't extend him.

2409
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:55,439
Speaker 1: I think that would be My criticism of fan bases

2410
01:49:55,439 --> 01:49:58,439
when they look at trades is I'm not expecting. I

2411
01:49:58,479 --> 01:50:01,039
don't I don't want people necessari care about the finances

2412
01:50:01,079 --> 01:50:02,760
of it all and when the trades can be completed.

2413
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:05,199
But you need to understand the value of a distant

2414
01:50:05,239 --> 01:50:08,039
first round pick, that that'd be my one quill. But

2415
01:50:08,159 --> 01:50:10,359
so what was that five or half a dozen teams?

2416
01:50:10,680 --> 01:50:13,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's most likely to who's the who's the like,

2417
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:14,720
who's just like?

2418
01:50:15,039 --> 01:50:17,920
Speaker 1: Because we're trying multiple Honestly, I've already pensiled in that

2419
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:19,760
twenty thirty one first round or to someone else. It

2420
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:21,560
feels like Phoenix is gonna be the team to it.

2421
01:50:22,239 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 2: Well, I mean.

2422
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:27,680
Speaker 1: They but they have the Clippers twenty eight pick. Are

2423
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:29,239
they going to go any further out than that? But

2424
01:50:29,279 --> 01:50:30,800
they would probably be a candidate too.

2425
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think, well, sure Darryl Moore is involved.

2426
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:39,760
And then Phoenix, like every every literally everything Phoenix has

2427
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:41,920
done to this point suggests the second a pick is

2428
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,920
available to trade, they'll trade it for short term game. Yeah.

2429
01:50:45,279 --> 01:50:47,319
I think I go fact here, because just you really

2430
01:50:47,399 --> 01:50:49,319
need two for this to be a fact and you've

2431
01:50:49,399 --> 01:50:51,800
just listed two very likely candidates, and you could you

2432
01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:54,840
just need you know, Phoenix feels like such a given

2433
01:50:55,199 --> 01:50:56,760
and then like you just need one more.

2434
01:50:57,159 --> 01:50:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go fiction because I really am only confident

2435
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:02,359
because the Bucks are sad, and so are they really

2436
01:51:02,359 --> 01:51:02,880
gonna do it?

2437
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 2: They're gonna trade, They're another They're a given, I think.

2438
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:10,640
Speaker 1: For what then, know, the salary matching sucks because you

2439
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:14,039
could trade it attached to Chris Middleton, but what is that, like,

2440
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:16,439
what is the trade there? So then are you attaching

2441
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:18,560
your twenty thirty one first to Bobby Portos and then

2442
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:21,479
who's a player good enough in that like twelve million

2443
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:23,600
dollar range that's gonna fit it. And the fact that

2444
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:26,199
they're probably thinking about life after you're honest because of

2445
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:28,520
all the speculation, I feel like makes it less likely

2446
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,520
they move it. The Lakers seem like they're trying to

2447
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:34,560
rebuild for something like around Lebron, and I don't know

2448
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:37,279
what they're doing, so I just don't trust them to

2449
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,159
part with and they could trade. They have their twenty

2450
01:51:40,239 --> 01:51:42,319
nine and twenty thirty one pick to trade. It's like

2451
01:51:42,399 --> 01:51:44,119
Dave could trade two of them, so that, in theories,

2452
01:51:44,119 --> 01:51:46,680
should make them more likely. Don't trust or expect them

2453
01:51:46,760 --> 01:51:48,920
to do it. Philly is like kind of weird because

2454
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:50,800
they have other assets to move, so I'd almost vote

2455
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:53,479
against it. I think the Suns are the only team

2456
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:56,039
and the Clippers are just are they good enough? They

2457
01:51:56,079 --> 01:51:57,880
already kind of came into this season where it felt

2458
01:51:57,880 --> 01:52:00,359
like they were gonna treat it as a figure it

2459
01:52:00,399 --> 01:52:02,359
out season, Like where is this headed? So why would

2460
01:52:02,359 --> 01:52:05,119
you give up a twenty thirty first round pick? So

2461
01:52:05,159 --> 01:52:06,680
I'm gonna say, I mean, maybe we should just throw

2462
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:08,760
an okay see in there because they probably have a trillion.

2463
01:52:09,239 --> 01:52:11,640
But I'm gonna I'm gonna say fiction. I think I

2464
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:13,279
think one team will do it, but they get to

2465
01:52:13,359 --> 01:52:13,960
two is a lot.

2466
01:52:14,159 --> 01:52:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's good. We have another disagreement. I'm going fact.

2467
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:22,199
Speaker 1: No, man, it's just sad grant at least one playoff

2468
01:52:22,239 --> 01:52:25,319
team in the East will have a losing record. Fact

2469
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:27,039
or fiction? Or would you like me to go through

2470
01:52:27,119 --> 01:52:30,520
the BPI projections on what the East playoff is gonna

2471
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:30,840
look like?

2472
01:52:31,319 --> 01:52:35,239
Speaker 2: Well, let's let's first settle on what playoffs mean. So

2473
01:52:35,319 --> 01:52:38,479
we'll just say post play in well of the top

2474
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:41,319
eight teams that actually compete in the playoffs were saying

2475
01:52:42,000 --> 01:52:44,319
one or more will have a losing record, and then

2476
01:52:44,359 --> 01:52:45,319
go ahead with the BPI.

2477
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 1: So I would say, based off BPI that this we

2478
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:52,119
should probably add some more teams into that. Because BPI

2479
01:52:52,359 --> 01:52:57,359
has the ESPN NBA Basketball Power Index projections, they have

2480
01:52:58,159 --> 01:53:02,720
the sixth seed, which would be Knicks winning thirty nine games.

2481
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,880
So that would mean that three teams six, seven, eight

2482
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:09,960
end up being under five hundred in the East and

2483
01:53:10,039 --> 01:53:10,880
making the playoffs.

2484
01:53:12,079 --> 01:53:14,279
Speaker 2: The Knicks are not finishing under five hundred.

2485
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:18,640
Speaker 1: Like, that's well, hold on, I would agree, but I'm

2486
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:19,520
not going to rule it out.

2487
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:25,000
Speaker 2: No, I'm not ruining a meteor is already losses.

2488
01:53:25,199 --> 01:53:26,880
Speaker 1: Honestly, what have you seen for them that makes you

2489
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:27,239
think that?

2490
01:53:27,760 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just like their top guys. This

2491
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:35,920
is an easy fact for me. The East like because

2492
01:53:36,279 --> 01:53:39,279
you have the usual suspects and then you have the

2493
01:53:39,399 --> 01:53:43,039
Phillies and Milwaukee's that are like just you know, fighting

2494
01:53:43,119 --> 01:53:44,239
uphill the rest of the way.

2495
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:46,840
Speaker 1: So it and what was it?

2496
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:48,720
Speaker 2: You got to give the stat of the what is

2497
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:49,880
it of the fifteen teams?

2498
01:53:50,399 --> 01:53:54,600
Speaker 1: Yes, so fifteen teams right now have a positive point

2499
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:57,560
differential per one hundred possessions outside of garbage time for

2500
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:00,159
cleaning the glass. I can't ask you how many them

2501
01:54:00,199 --> 01:54:02,680
come from the West, because you know the answer. Eleven

2502
01:54:03,399 --> 01:54:07,720
come from the Western Conference. That is bonkers by the way,

2503
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,960
you know what it said. The Magic are projected per

2504
01:54:11,399 --> 01:54:14,000
BPI to finish third, and we don't even know if

2505
01:54:14,079 --> 01:54:16,560
Paula Ben Carroll's gonna come back. They've now they've fattened

2506
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:18,399
up their schedule, wipe. I think they won four straight

2507
01:54:18,399 --> 01:54:22,119
against really shitty teams. But like what is happening? There

2508
01:54:22,199 --> 01:54:26,840
are injuries in Milwaukee and in Philly, But the Knicks

2509
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:29,680
are worse than expected. Miami, I guess is about where

2510
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:32,239
we would expect it, but they seem sadder somehow, like

2511
01:54:32,319 --> 01:54:34,199
their record is maybe where you expect to me. The

2512
01:54:34,279 --> 01:54:37,119
Bulls and Nets are winning entirely too many basketball games

2513
01:54:37,159 --> 01:54:37,680
at the moment.

2514
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:42,359
Speaker 2: I let's lay it this way. Who in the East

2515
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:48,159
are you, Like, would you bet anything on finishing with

2516
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:52,960
a winning record? Definitely Boston, Definitely Cleveland, And then we're

2517
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:57,279
already in the Orlando, New York, Indie, Philly, Milwaukee area.

2518
01:54:57,640 --> 01:55:01,119
Like I think it's two. I mean, obviously somebody else

2519
01:55:01,239 --> 01:55:03,640
is gonna finish with a winning record, like several somebodies,

2520
01:55:04,159 --> 01:55:07,199
but like other than Boston and Cleveland, we got questions

2521
01:55:07,199 --> 01:55:11,039
about every single other team. Maybe Orlando is the safest. Yeah,

2522
01:55:11,119 --> 01:55:13,840
like their best player's hurt right now with a major injury.

2523
01:55:14,119 --> 01:55:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, like scrappy defense will like

2524
01:55:16,640 --> 01:55:18,640
get you through the right like sort of the Clippers model,

2525
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:20,720
but you play in a shittier conference, it probably works

2526
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:21,479
out quite well for you.

2527
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:22,079
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2528
01:55:22,159 --> 01:55:24,319
Speaker 1: So I think the answer is even if you want

2529
01:55:24,359 --> 01:55:27,279
to nominate another team, the answer is three that you

2530
01:55:27,319 --> 01:55:29,439
could guarantee are gonna finish above five hundred.

2531
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:32,159
Speaker 2: But you can't name the third team, right, Like you're

2532
01:55:32,279 --> 01:55:33,399
just so right?

2533
01:55:33,600 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't ask, though, do you think? And I

2534
01:55:36,279 --> 01:55:38,239
if I had to guess, it'd be Philly more so

2535
01:55:38,359 --> 01:55:41,119
than Milwaukee. But because of how weak the East is,

2536
01:55:41,199 --> 01:55:42,960
we could talk about, well, some of these guys aren't

2537
01:55:42,960 --> 01:55:44,880
gonna play every game, how much ground are they seeing?

2538
01:55:45,239 --> 01:55:48,079
But the Sixers, as we record this, there are three

2539
01:55:48,199 --> 01:55:50,399
losses out of third place. So it's like, if you

2540
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:52,600
just get your is there just a chance that because

2541
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:55,600
the East is so what is the word, but because

2542
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:58,960
the East is the East that they didn't like, they're

2543
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:01,000
not gonna lose too much time. They're gonna run off

2544
01:56:01,079 --> 01:56:03,239
this stretch and then they just look dominant because the

2545
01:56:03,319 --> 01:56:05,520
field below them is not great.

2546
01:56:06,079 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like the BPI projection is like really

2547
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:12,800
jarring to me because you do just like the wins

2548
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:14,800
are there. It's not like, you know, it is an

2549
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:18,439
unbalanced schedule. You're not playing, you know, equal numbers of

2550
01:56:18,479 --> 01:56:21,039
games against the West or whatever. So like you know,

2551
01:56:21,239 --> 01:56:24,079
you might have I don't know, Charlotte might go forty

2552
01:56:24,119 --> 01:56:26,119
two and forty or something crazy like that, or like

2553
01:56:26,159 --> 01:56:28,960
Atlanta or whatever. But just as it stands now, I

2554
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:32,239
don't feel confident in any teams other than Boston and Cleveland,

2555
01:56:32,560 --> 01:56:35,079
like definitely finishing with win. This isn't easy to me.

2556
01:56:35,479 --> 01:56:37,880
This is one of the easiest facts that we had.

2557
01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:40,920
Speaker 1: We weren't aggress this was mine. We weren't or did

2558
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:43,359
we collectively come up with this one. We weren't aggressive enough.

2559
01:56:43,399 --> 01:56:45,600
So I'm gonna change it. I'm not gonna actually change it,

2560
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:47,840
but okay, this is a fact. If I say two

2561
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:51,119
of the top eight teams in the East are gonna

2562
01:56:51,159 --> 01:56:53,720
have a below five hundred record post playing, or it

2563
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:56,840
doesn't even matter because if it's post playing, like that

2564
01:56:57,039 --> 01:57:00,439
just means I guess if I two of the East

2565
01:57:00,479 --> 01:57:02,960
playoff teams we're on first round of the playoffs are

2566
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,000
gonna have a below five hundred record factor fiction.

2567
01:57:06,279 --> 01:57:07,760
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go I'm gonna stick fact.

2568
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,000
Speaker 1: I feel good the way though they Oh god, I'm

2569
01:57:12,039 --> 01:57:14,079
gonna say fiction because I don't want that to happen

2570
01:57:14,159 --> 01:57:17,560
because then it's well, I guess it. It matters more that.

2571
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:19,720
All Right, the calves in Boston exist, so you can

2572
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:21,199
trust them coming out of the East and giving the

2573
01:57:21,279 --> 01:57:22,920
West the run over their money in the finals. But

2574
01:57:23,199 --> 01:57:25,319
if we only have two teams that are legitimate title

2575
01:57:25,359 --> 01:57:27,000
condetors in the Eastern Conference, that kind of.

2576
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 2: Sucks well, and then isn't it true? I mean you

2577
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:32,319
have to think of it from the other side too,

2578
01:57:32,439 --> 01:57:34,359
Like if Boston and Cleveland are just are like no

2579
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,199
notes teams in the East, what if they both win

2580
01:57:37,319 --> 01:57:40,439
like sixty six games, Like that's where all the wins go.

2581
01:57:40,600 --> 01:57:43,479
They just sop up all these extra wins and there

2582
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:46,520
aren't any left, like and like right now, I mean

2583
01:57:47,039 --> 01:57:49,000
we should have I just thought of it, so we

2584
01:57:49,039 --> 01:57:50,840
didn't prep that. But like, when's the last time we

2585
01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:52,920
had two teams in the same conference? Is it like

2586
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:57,279
the Houston Golden State year? Not even the Yeah, yeah,

2587
01:57:57,359 --> 01:58:01,119
the sixty plus wins teams that cannot happen often but

2588
01:58:01,439 --> 01:58:03,000
I mean, as we're looking at it now.

2589
01:58:05,119 --> 01:58:08,359
Speaker 1: My way, this is even a little bit crazier. So

2590
01:58:08,359 --> 01:58:10,600
when you're looking at just the point per game differential,

2591
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:13,760
there are twelve teams in the West that have a

2592
01:58:13,880 --> 01:58:17,119
positive point differential, So just total points there, which net

2593
01:58:17,199 --> 01:58:19,239
rating is more accurate, like twelve and fifteen.

2594
01:58:21,039 --> 01:58:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you've got four of fifteen in the

2595
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:26,880
East's Look, the Knicks are plus three point six, not

2596
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:29,159
net but just total you know, average points per game.

2597
01:58:29,439 --> 01:58:31,239
They're gonna be you know what the Knicks are gonna

2598
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:32,079
the Knicks are.

2599
01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:34,640
Speaker 1: Look, the Knicks will be above five hundred. I don't

2600
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:37,159
know if they're gonna be a title contender though, that'd

2601
01:58:37,199 --> 01:58:38,840
be a different discussion. We're gonna have to buy or

2602
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:42,800
sell like title contender status. But do you anything else

2603
01:58:43,039 --> 01:58:44,680
on this or would you would you like to take

2604
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:45,359
us out here?

2605
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:47,319
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a great one to end on

2606
01:58:47,399 --> 01:58:48,920
because it's kind of we've let us know.

2607
01:58:49,239 --> 01:58:51,399
Speaker 1: In the comments. I want to know in the comments

2608
01:58:51,439 --> 01:58:53,399
are discord go join that links in the podcast? You

2609
01:58:53,479 --> 01:58:56,600
do description how many of the top eight teams, when

2610
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:58,720
all is said and done, playing and everything in the

2611
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:02,600
Eastern Conference will be below five hundred and we're saying.

2612
01:59:03,079 --> 01:59:05,159
Grant is saying, are you saying more than two? I'm

2613
01:59:05,159 --> 01:59:05,720
gonna use that.

2614
01:59:05,880 --> 01:59:08,039
Speaker 2: No, you said too, so I'm sticking with two. I

2615
01:59:08,079 --> 01:59:10,119
don't want to stretch it too far. BPI thinks three,

2616
01:59:10,239 --> 01:59:11,119
but I'm gonna stay two.

2617
01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:14,039
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say one and BPI thinks three. What do

2618
01:59:14,119 --> 01:59:17,560
you think? Oh? That was fun?

2619
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:21,399
Speaker 2: Thanks Dan, Thanks everybody for watching, for listening as usual, Remember,

2620
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:24,600
please rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Check

2621
01:59:24,680 --> 01:59:26,720
us out on YouTube, which if you're watching, thank you

2622
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:29,359
you're doing that already, but if you're here, please subscribe.

2623
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:32,800
Speaker 1: Leave us. Oh round, we're getting down voted again, and

2624
01:59:32,960 --> 01:59:35,800
I will put in I don't so this is here's

2625
01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:37,680
a peak behind the Curta. I didn't even tell you this, Grant.

2626
01:59:37,880 --> 01:59:39,920
Someone wrote a review complaining we have too many ads

2627
01:59:40,359 --> 01:59:42,439
and the ad model changed for the system that we

2628
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:45,560
used where the recommended ads went up now call bullshit

2629
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:47,760
on them, saying they pop up at random times because

2630
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:49,399
I time stamped the shit out of this, and so

2631
01:59:49,439 --> 01:59:52,479
if something happens after that, if the ads are somehow

2632
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:55,319
screwing it up and bumping it, that's beyond my control.

2633
01:59:56,399 --> 01:59:58,880
I'm a little bit annoyed because they said in the

2634
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:00,960
comment where the best podcas and the ads ruined it?

2635
02:00:01,159 --> 02:00:02,520
So you didn't write a review when we were the

2636
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:05,800
best podcast. Something pops up when you didn't like it.

2637
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:08,000
Thank you for listening. We're actually gonna put in less ads,

2638
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:09,800
but that means that Grant and I I have to

2639
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:11,800
manually fix that and now we're going to be taking

2640
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:14,640
a pay cut. But I want the user experience. Some

2641
02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:16,640
people have said it to me on the side, so

2642
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:19,039
I'm I do listen to the comments, but if you're

2643
02:00:19,119 --> 02:00:23,000
not regularly like interacting with us, look inward and say,

2644
02:00:23,079 --> 02:00:24,680
why do I have to give this podcast that I

2645
02:00:24,760 --> 02:00:26,960
think is great a one star review when I know

2646
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:28,960
they put a lot of work in because I don't

2647
02:00:29,039 --> 02:00:30,840
like the ad model that we also know in this

2648
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:33,479
day and age, they don't have direct control over it.

2649
02:00:33,640 --> 02:00:36,039
So that pretty annoyed me, given how invested we are

2650
02:00:36,079 --> 02:00:39,560
in this. But again I'm taking feedback into account. Other

2651
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:42,000
people have said something it was a change that I

2652
02:00:42,119 --> 02:00:44,159
tried to at least space them out the best I could,

2653
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:46,479
but Grant and I I didn't even tell Grant this. Grant,

2654
02:00:46,520 --> 02:00:47,520
you're taking a pay cut.

2655
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:50,119
Speaker 2: So well, I didn't agree to that at all. Also,

2656
02:00:50,199 --> 02:00:53,359
by the way, most phones, I assuming you're listening to this,

2657
02:00:53,720 --> 02:00:56,439
have a little thirty second skip button. Just touch it.

2658
02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:58,439
Speaker 1: So thank you for downloating us and ruining that. So

2659
02:00:58,520 --> 02:01:02,920
everybody get in there up what I will say, I

2660
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:05,399
do think the numbers are egregious. So I was planning

2661
02:01:05,399 --> 02:01:07,399
on cutting them down in the new year anyway, but

2662
02:01:07,439 --> 02:01:09,000
I'm gonna cut them down now. I just wanted to

2663
02:01:09,039 --> 02:01:10,760
talk to you about it first, but I figured why

2664
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:12,439
not let the listeners foot, why not let you find

2665
02:01:12,479 --> 02:01:14,479
out when the listeners found out. So now they'll pop

2666
02:01:14,600 --> 02:01:17,840
up every They were making them like every six minutes, grant,

2667
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:19,760
and I cut them down like every nine. They're gonna

2668
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:22,079
go back to being every fifteen to twenty. If that's

2669
02:01:22,119 --> 02:01:25,119
too much for you, go away, Like I just I

2670
02:01:25,119 --> 02:01:26,079
don't know what to tell you.

2671
02:01:27,239 --> 02:01:30,119
Speaker 2: I think the takeaway here is let's get in there

2672
02:01:30,159 --> 02:01:32,439
and get some more up books. We gotta we gotta

2673
02:01:32,479 --> 02:01:35,760
offset some of this. What else join our discord then

2674
02:01:35,760 --> 02:01:37,520
maybe that'd be another place to comment, or we canna

2675
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:39,279
have a good discussion about like who in the East

2676
02:01:39,359 --> 02:01:41,640
we think is gonna finish about five hundred for sure,

2677
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:44,920
I think that's gonna cover it. Tell your friends, tell

2678
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:47,479
your enemies. If you see him, shout out Frank Nolatina,

2679
02:01:47,479 --> 02:01:48,800
and apologize to Jared Allen