Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to the Cage to Night Live.
Speaker 2: We almost got this thing off the ground with that
Speaker 2: many technical issues, but I spoke too soon on it.
Speaker 2: Six minutes in my computer completely shut down and restarted.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna try this again.
Speaker 2: I'm joined today by a couple of the good followers
Speaker 2: of the Cage to Night and honestly, there are.
Speaker 1: Just homies of the highest regard.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna just let the conversation go where it goes. Tonight,
Speaker 2: Tony had brought something in that he wants to talk about.
Speaker 2: I know Anthony's got a topic he wants to go
Speaker 2: on tonight as well. So and of course, Raven Lee,
Speaker 2: if you want to chime in at any point, you
Speaker 2: are more than welcome at all times. So uh okay, So, Tony,
Speaker 2: you were talking about a certain case that has come up,
Speaker 2: and it had to do with some something with a
Speaker 2: Russian with a diplomat.
Speaker 3: He was a Russian. Well, let's see, he was accused
Speaker 3: in Russia of working for six and he was thrown
Speaker 3: in prison in two thousand and six. Okay, I got
Speaker 3: a diplomat more of a spy type guy. I don't
Speaker 3: know his actual job wise, ok fair, enough anyway, it's
Speaker 3: almost not even important. So in two thousand and six
Speaker 3: he was arrested thrown in prison in Russia. This is
Speaker 3: staircase screepaul in case. We don't have the background here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the screen ball case. If anybody would like to
Speaker 1: look this up on their in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was brought up on cult conspiracy a month
Speaker 3: or two ago with the GRU Russian intelligence service, and
Speaker 3: there are alleged activities and poisonings of people.
Speaker 4: Yea guy is probably the main guy.
Speaker 3: And the reason this is important is in twenty eighteen
Speaker 3: this led to one hundred and fifty or so Russian
Speaker 3: diplomats getting kicked out of England, a severe souring of relations,
Speaker 3: and it arguably was like one of the main dominoes
Speaker 3: that kicked off a string of events that led to
Speaker 3: the russ Ukraine War. So that's why this is important,
Speaker 3: even though we're just talking about a couple of people here.
Speaker 3: But yeah, fast forwarding a little bit, Okay, there was
Speaker 3: a prisoner swap in twenty ten. He was one of
Speaker 3: or five Russians exchanged for ten or eleven other spies
Speaker 3: on the other side. And he lived in England in Salisbury,
Speaker 3: which is southwest of London, a bunch of miles and
Speaker 3: the poisoning took place on March fourth, twenty eighteen. On
Speaker 3: March fourth, he left his house. His car was seen
Speaker 3: near the town center at one pm. He left his
Speaker 3: house at nine am. His car was seen downtown around
Speaker 3: one thirty pm. At one he and his daughter Yulia
Speaker 3: went to a pub in the Bishop's Mill and at
Speaker 3: two twenty pm they dined at Zz's on Castle Street,
Speaker 3: leaving at three thirty five pm. Zz is a chain
Speaker 3: restaurant over there. It's kind of like Domino's apparently. But
Speaker 3: then at four point fifteen, an emergency services called reported
Speaker 3: that a man and a woman later identified as Sergain
Speaker 3: Julia had been found unconscious on a pub bench in
Speaker 3: the center of Salisbury by passing chief nursing officer for
Speaker 3: the British Army and her daughter, which is quite a coincidence.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the nursing officer for Britain just
Speaker 2: so happened to find this guy there.
Speaker 3: But there's also a chemical weapons research facility like ten
Speaker 3: miles away from this place. Coincidentally perhaps, But some people
Speaker 3: accuse the British of poison and poisoning them and I'll
Speaker 3: get more a little.
Speaker 4: More into that in a minute now.
Speaker 3: The way, so, Saragai and Julia ended up in a
Speaker 3: coma for about a month each, and the Organization for
Speaker 3: the Probision of Chemical Weapons OPCW came to England and
Speaker 3: and found.
Speaker 4: This novo chalk.
Speaker 3: Organo phosphate molecule on the doorknob of Screet Paul's.
Speaker 2: Apartment's wearing a bell that nova chok in this whole situation,
Speaker 2: Novachok is a very specific type of chemical agent being
Speaker 2: used in primarily from one specific group, not always, not
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, but it's it's kind of the for
Speaker 2: a long time was a very stereotypical weapon of choice
Speaker 2: for a certain three letter agency from a certain country
Speaker 2: in Asia.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I could fill in the blanks, I think
Speaker 3: we're allowed to.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we are. We are just being physicious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was developed in Soviet times, so we're
Speaker 3: talking before nineteen ninety, right, And you know, I'm still
Speaker 3: open maybe this actually happened this way. But one of
Speaker 3: the big inconsistencies here is you notice, you know, he
Speaker 3: left his house at nine am, and he only passed
Speaker 3: that out on the park bench at about four fifteen PM,
Speaker 3: so that's quite a long time for this poison to
Speaker 3: be incubating. And the doctor, okay, here's the new revelation
Speaker 3: that just came out this week. The doctor who was
Speaker 3: treating both of them, there were several doctors of him,
Speaker 3: was named Robert Cockroft. Actually, let me confirm that first
Speaker 3: name Cockroft was a yes, Stephen Cockroft knew, I know,
Speaker 3: I got it wrong. And he says that he saw
Speaker 3: Julia wake up on March eighth, just four days into
Speaker 3: the coma. And he's he's got a lot of experience
Speaker 3: as an intensive care doctor, and he works with a
Speaker 3: lot of patients who are in coma's after car accidents
Speaker 3: and stuff, and he always talks to.
Speaker 4: Them, and he thought he was doing a good job.
Speaker 4: But he asked her, so what happened?
Speaker 3: And she couldn't talk, So take this all with the
Speaker 3: greatest salt, because she was communicating via blinks. But he
Speaker 3: reports that he was asking her, so you went to
Speaker 3: this place, Zizi's right, and she she blinked yes, and
Speaker 3: then he said, well what happened there? Were you poisoned there?
Speaker 3: And he says she started crying her eyes out and
Speaker 3: ask her how did that happen? Did somebody spray something
Speaker 3: on you? And she blinked yes, So you know, this
Speaker 3: is kind of more or less one way communication, but
Speaker 3: he's sure when he recounts it as saying she says
Speaker 3: she was poisoned at the restaurant and then she went
Speaker 3: back into the coma and he told his boss about it,
Speaker 3: and his boss told him, you're not to speak about
Speaker 3: this to anybody. And this only came out years later
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, with a public inquiry, which is
Speaker 3: kind of a public investigation and it's not a full
Speaker 3: blown one. So in British law, if they do something
Speaker 3: called an inquest, then six agents can be called to testify,
Speaker 3: but with inquiry levels it's way lower than that. So
Speaker 3: we were probably not getting the full story from the
Speaker 3: British government on this, But anyway, OPCW came to investigate
Speaker 3: and Yulia and Serge were both given or at least
Speaker 3: Yulia was given a tracheotomy on March twenty first. It
Speaker 3: wasn't taken out until March twenty seventh, so it was
Speaker 3: kind of almost deliberately to prevent her from talking.
Speaker 1: Do we know why she did this?
Speaker 2: Like for the record, anybody who doesn't know tracheotomy, typically
Speaker 2: there's a high side and a low said they can
Speaker 2: do for this. If they go low side, they're pretty
Speaker 2: much slicing through your vocal cords.
Speaker 1: Like you may be able to talk again, but it's
Speaker 1: highly unlikely. So do you know why they gave her
Speaker 1: a track?
Speaker 2: Or the medical reason was she was she unable to
Speaker 2: breathe on her own or some shit.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think they gave some excuse like that.
Speaker 3: But the allegation is maybe the British government and intelligence
Speaker 3: were trying to prevent her from talking. And the working
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory right now, there's a couple of layers to this,
Speaker 3: but the conspiracy theorists are alleging that the British actually
Speaker 3: wanted to have Sarah Gay killed because he was thinking
Speaker 3: of defecting back to Russia.
Speaker 4: Now I don't know if I believe this.
Speaker 3: Because this would imply that he would have to have
Speaker 3: a lot of inside knowledge of British intelligence, which he
Speaker 3: may or may not have had. I'm betting he probably didn't.
Speaker 3: But then the even deeper layer did this Actually maybe
Speaker 3: that is the deeper layer. I can't remember. I mean,
Speaker 3: this just came out, the thing about her waking up
Speaker 3: early and telling the doctor that she knows he poisoned her.
Speaker 3: And we haven't heard from them since except for one
Speaker 3: statement they gave in May. They signed a letter saying, oh,
Speaker 3: this is what happened to us, And they have pretty
Speaker 3: much vanished off the face of the earth since then,
Speaker 3: except that Serkai made one call to his niece in
Speaker 3: Russia that was recorded in twenty nineteen, and other than that,
Speaker 3: they have not been seen or heard from. They have
Speaker 3: not confirmed or denied anything. Some people wonder whether whether
Speaker 3: they're still alive or whether they were a target of
Speaker 3: like the British wanted to assassinate him because they thought
Speaker 3: he was going to defect back to Russia. Now, I
Speaker 3: don't know what the hell's going on here. It's just,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a lot of different theories in the world.
Speaker 3: And what do you think you still think through gr
Speaker 3: you did it, because I'm open to that possibility.
Speaker 2: All right, looking at this from all angles here, certain
Speaker 2: things of this story just throw out immediate red flags.
Speaker 1: Of course.
Speaker 2: They you said that they left their house at nine am.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they left their.
Speaker 3: House at nine am and passed out on the park
Speaker 3: bench at four or fifteen pm, and then.
Speaker 1: They went to Zz's around what time.
Speaker 4: A two to three thirty pm something like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the day itself was a very typical day.
Speaker 2: They went and got a late lunch, early dinner type
Speaker 2: of situation. Now, the poison or the agent I should
Speaker 2: say that was used, correct me if I'm wrong, But
Speaker 2: that's a nerve agent type of chemical weapon. It's not
Speaker 2: a It doesn't make you like exphyxiate, It doesn't fill
Speaker 2: your lungs with liquid or any of that. It doesn't
Speaker 2: make you, you know, bleed through your eyeballs. There's all
Speaker 2: kinds of crazy nerve agents or poisons. I should say
Speaker 2: this one, if I'm not mistaken, it does attack the
Speaker 2: nerves themselves.
Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, that is what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 2: And if I'm not, I'm not like an expert on
Speaker 2: this by any means, But if I'm not mistaken, the
Speaker 2: research that I did too into this weapon for that episode.
Speaker 2: There's different ways that it can be administered, like, for instance,
Speaker 2: it can be on a door knob, but just touching
Speaker 2: it with your bare hands isn't a guarantee that it's
Speaker 2: going to get to its intended target, or at least.
Speaker 1: Accomplish it's an intended purpose.
Speaker 2: Now, ingesting it, breathing it in, or having it injected. Now,
Speaker 2: these are other ways, of course, But just putting it
Speaker 2: on a doorknob possibly, sure, But that's assuming that these
Speaker 2: aren't like super neat freaks to wash their hands constantly,
Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing. Somebody walking into the restaurant,
Speaker 2: just kind of spraying it straight up like the scarecrow
Speaker 2: the on Batman, just sh out of a wrist thing
Speaker 2: and then they got it. Sure, I could see that too,
Speaker 2: But we're talking about them leaving a restaurant at three
Speaker 2: in the afternoon and then showing up at a park
Speaker 2: bench at four in the afternoon, four fifteen. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm skiffing on the little numbers here, you know, the
Speaker 2: little small change details.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's ways smaller time lag there than leaving
Speaker 3: the house at nine am to four pm.
Speaker 4: So it is more believable this way.
Speaker 2: But that is broad daylight. That is, that's not like
Speaker 2: they drug them to a back alley. They didn't get
Speaker 2: thrown in the back of a van somewhere and then
Speaker 2: they got placed on these benches.
Speaker 1: For that to have happened in that way.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot of key details that
Speaker 2: are missing within that critical hour.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know the city's layout that they were in.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a lot of like traffic
Speaker 2: cams or things that could be pulled and seen as
Speaker 2: far as how are they were they walking out of
Speaker 2: this restaurant, were they staggering out? Were they There's a
Speaker 2: lot of things unknown there now for them to not
Speaker 2: die instantly or not instantly, but in the matter of
Speaker 2: an hour or two from this, especially with the agent
Speaker 2: that was being used, there is a working theory to
Speaker 2: say that that type of substance has a shelf life,
Speaker 2: and they allegedly big allegedly have not produced that chemical
Speaker 2: agent since the fall of the Soviet Union because the
Speaker 2: Soviet Union operated under different walls, they accepted different things
Speaker 2: to be acceptable behavior. Fine, I get it, CIA during
Speaker 2: the Cold War was doing a lot of foul things
Speaker 2: and they still are one hundred percent still are, but
Speaker 2: not to the blatant level that they were during you know,
Speaker 2: the the Red.
Speaker 1: Scare and all of that.
Speaker 2: So I could at least believe within the realm of
Speaker 2: reality that this was an older agent that was being
Speaker 2: used because they have a stockpile of it and they're
Speaker 2: just trying to use it when they can, and it's
Speaker 2: not as potent as it once was, so maybe it
Speaker 2: didn't do the complete intended effect, but enough to where
Speaker 2: it put them both in a coma and really damaged them.
Speaker 1: Now for her to have a trait put in.
Speaker 2: Medically speaking, there's only a few scenarios where that is
Speaker 2: like the obvious correct course of action, and usually that
Speaker 2: involves whenever there's no other way for air to go
Speaker 2: into the lungs. Like I saw a picture of a marine,
Speaker 2: but I think it was a marine, it might have
Speaker 2: been a soldier. Honestly, his face basically there was a
Speaker 2: crater where his face had once been. He survived that
Speaker 2: because they put a trake in and he was able
Speaker 2: to continue breathing.
Speaker 1: His brain was still functioning.
Speaker 2: He just no longer had a face or you know, jaw,
Speaker 2: and he was not able to breathe through you know,
Speaker 2: these air holes anymore because they were no longer existent.
Speaker 2: But he was able to live through that, at least
Speaker 2: to the time they got him to the hospital.
Speaker 1: I think he later died from his injury. But for
Speaker 1: them to do that.
Speaker 2: That means that her entire esophagus was closed up from
Speaker 2: that to the nose in the mouth. I can't imagine
Speaker 2: that happening while she was laying comatose in a hospital.
Speaker 2: It would lead more credence to foul play.
Speaker 1: Either. Maybe it was Grew.
Speaker 2: Possibly maybe it was British intelligence, because let's talk about
Speaker 2: that now, he was kicked out of Russia for being
Speaker 2: an alleged six member. He goes to England and then
Speaker 2: they're saying that he was trying to go back to
Speaker 2: b KGB again or Grew or whatever the case is.
Speaker 2: Could it be that he was kicked out of Russia
Speaker 2: just for the story and they were saying that he
Speaker 2: was an MI six agent In reality he wasn't. But
Speaker 2: that was the kind of like The Departed, right, Leo
Speaker 2: DiCaprio's character had to go to jail to seem like
Speaker 2: a criminal even though he actually didn't commit a crime.
Speaker 2: It was for the story, it was for the act.
Speaker 2: I could see that being the case, But for them
Speaker 2: to take him and his daughter in that way, that, ah,
Speaker 2: that's messy, even for even Soviet era Russia.
Speaker 1: That's messy, messy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm looking it up. He was convicted in two
Speaker 3: thousand and six, convicted of spying for Britain. Prosecutor said
Speaker 3: he had been supplying Six with the information since the
Speaker 3: nineties and was paid one hundred thousand dollars by Six
Speaker 3: for the information. This is the Russian legal system saying this,
Speaker 3: and maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but I actually
Speaker 3: forgot one other kind of important thing for them to
Speaker 3: for the final blame for this to come down to
Speaker 3: Novi Chok. There was actually one person who died in
Speaker 3: this hole, in this whole debacle. It was a homeless
Speaker 3: woman named don Sturgis, and she died on April thirtieth,
Speaker 3: remember that the original attack took place on March fourth,
Speaker 3: and she allegedly was well, there was a guy I
Speaker 3: forget his name who fished a bottle of perfume out
Speaker 3: of a trash can north of Salisbury and gave it
Speaker 3: to Don Sturgis, and she thought it was perfume, so
Speaker 3: she sprayed it on her hand and then she died
Speaker 3: from it. But with it being two whole months later,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of pushed next to doubt. I'm thinking that
Speaker 3: if there was foul play here, you know, maybe the
Speaker 3: British government needed, you know, an actual dead body and
Speaker 3: to claim that novichok did it. And how hard would
Speaker 3: it be to fabricate the toxicology report to say, oh,
Speaker 3: we found this organo phosphate, it's novachok.
Speaker 1: And especially on a homeless woman.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, a homeless woman who probably died of something else, and.
Speaker 2: That story would check out, Like, Okay, if somebody was
Speaker 2: to spray perfume on the wrist and then smell it,
Speaker 2: you are inhaling basic pure novachalk. I could understand why that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get it. The pieces of the puzzle fall together. However,
Speaker 2: a random homeless woman that had no connection to any
Speaker 2: of this, or at least allegedly who knows, dying as
Speaker 2: a result of this, and oh well, that must be
Speaker 2: the perfume bottle that was used.
Speaker 1: When you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Are we saying that a perfume bottle was used as
Speaker 2: the weapon of choice by the alleged assassins.
Speaker 1: I possibly sure. I just I feel like there's better
Speaker 1: way to do it, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Maybe it smiles loving and pour it on the doorknob.
Speaker 3: It's all possible, And you know, it just pains me
Speaker 3: that we're probably never gonna know till we're all dead
Speaker 3: and we get to ask God what really happened here?
Speaker 2: I yeah, I could see it being Russia trying to
Speaker 2: tie up loose ends. I could equally see it being
Speaker 2: England trying to tie up a loose end and blaming
Speaker 2: it on Russia. I also, I'm not an expert in toxicology,
Speaker 2: so I don't know what kind of telltale signs they
Speaker 2: were looking for to say that it was absolutely novachok?
Speaker 2: Or is this also a doctor that's you know, on
Speaker 2: the take who just wrote that in the report?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I could see so many levels of incompetence on this.
Speaker 2: And also the whole story about him being paid one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars that sounds ridiculous out loud, Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so the guy was spying and risking his life in
Speaker 2: Russia right after the Soviet Union collapsed and all these
Speaker 2: things for one hundred k that seems like a low number, right. However,
Speaker 2: we just recently, like two years ago, had a Air
Speaker 2: Force guy sell the air strategy like software and data
Speaker 2: to China for like fourteen thousand dollars. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like, there are really dumb people that do wild
Speaker 2: shit for very low amounts of money.
Speaker 1: That's not new. I just I have a hard time
Speaker 1: seeing it.
Speaker 2: Dude, one hundred k and all you did with that
Speaker 2: was move to just a random city in England and
Speaker 2: try to live your life with it, Like that's not
Speaker 2: enough to live on. I but maybe if he was
Speaker 2: taking that money while he was in Russia, I mean,
Speaker 2: after the Soviet Union collapse, their economy was absolutely in
Speaker 2: the shit, or so maybe one hundred k US or
Speaker 2: one hundred k euro, whatever the case was, maybe that
Speaker 2: did in fact go a long way in that economy.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's way too many red flags on
Speaker 1: the play here.
Speaker 3: Another thing is that nerve gas is supposed to be
Speaker 3: really really really really toxic. Yeah, only a few milligrams
Speaker 3: should be necessary to kill a person, so uh, And
Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin's been asked about this on a number of occasions.
Speaker 3: He says, I'm not an expert, but I think that
Speaker 3: if this were really military grade, it would have taken
Speaker 3: a microscopic amount micrograms, and you know they would have
Speaker 3: been dead right away.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: This novie chalk allegedly has been used on alex Say
Speaker 3: NAVALNI and others, and pretty much everyone who has ever
Speaker 3: allegedly been used on has survived except for Don Sturgis.
Speaker 2: And I've heard that that's because it has a shelf
Speaker 2: life and it's lost its potency over years or whatever
Speaker 2: the case is.
Speaker 1: That's a theory. I'm not really convinced on it.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like saying a mustard gas bomb from
Speaker 2: World War Two that didn't explode, it's just unexploded ordinance
Speaker 2: in the ground, and some farmer hits it with his
Speaker 2: plow like he won't die, Like, oh, yes he will,
Speaker 2: you know, potency and not, that's still gonna it's still
Speaker 2: gonna do the job.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, anyway, that's all I think I have for that story,
Speaker 3: and I think we got plenty of time left for
Speaker 3: other stories and other people.
Speaker 1: We do.
Speaker 2: Indeed we do, indeed as far as that case is concerned.
Speaker 2: And that's the Vladimir Putin's saying he's not an expert
Speaker 2: on that, respectfully, I would have to disagree. That'd be
Speaker 2: like George Bush Senior saying he's not an expert on
Speaker 2: the things the CIA does. But it's like, but you
Speaker 2: led the CIA, like you, Yeah, you may not have
Speaker 2: been a operator in the field, but you know the
Speaker 2: operating procedures, and you could you would be able to
Speaker 2: tell if it was your boys at work or not.
Speaker 2: Putin was former KGB, and if I'm not mistaken, he
Speaker 2: wasn't like a low level peon.
Speaker 1: He kind of ran shit for a good.
Speaker 2: While, So I feel like he would know more than
Speaker 2: most if it was one of his groups or an
Speaker 2: agent that is used by Russia or not.
Speaker 1: But it's not like he would openly admit that that
Speaker 1: was them.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm not blaming him for keeping up
Speaker 2: the story on that front either. I understand why he
Speaker 2: would do that, especially in the position he's in now.
Speaker 3: But yeah, by the way, have you ever seen the
Speaker 3: picture of him standing next to Ronald Reagan in Moscow
Speaker 3: posing as a tourist.
Speaker 4: No, it's a real thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was posing as a tourist standing next to
Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan in Red Square in Russia at some point
Speaker 3: in the eighties.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty wild. See all right, Kretman from wrong Tony.
Speaker 2: But there was a situation. Putin was probably a mid
Speaker 2: level guy with the KGB, but the story goes that
Speaker 2: he was directly involved with this.
Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a hostage situation.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure which Arab country, but one of them
Speaker 2: decided that they wanted to play stupid games and win
Speaker 2: stupid prizes with some Russian diplomats family members, or they
Speaker 2: were trying to blackmail him, or whatever.
Speaker 1: The case was. They decided to piss in Russia's cheerios,
Speaker 1: and allegedly the.
Speaker 2: Leader of this group got mailed a series of boxes
Speaker 2: over the next couple of days with body parts of
Speaker 2: his family members, not all of them, but there was.
Speaker 2: It wasn't his wife, it wasn't it might have been
Speaker 2: one of his children or something like that. And since
Speaker 2: then there's been no Russian hostage situation from any Arab nation.
Speaker 5: I believe that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to say it was in the seventies
Speaker 2: or even the early eighties, some group, some terrorist group,
Speaker 2: decided that they wanted to try to reach up and
Speaker 2: slap at the Soviet Union, and I guess they didn't
Speaker 2: realize how the Soviet Union did business. It might honestly
Speaker 2: have been around the time when the Soviet Union was
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan, now that I think about it, and the
Speaker 2: message was sent back in kind. And basically we just
Speaker 2: haven't heard of many terrorist attacks in Russia ever since,
Speaker 2: well up until a few years ago, we had a
Speaker 2: couple of psychopaths like try to go on stabbing spreeze
Speaker 2: in Russia, and they also got handled with equal vitriol.
Speaker 2: I would say, this is how that group does business.
Speaker 2: And that's why whenever we did that episode about the
Speaker 2: grow you're telling me these are the pipe hitters of
Speaker 2: the pipe hitters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they I.
Speaker 2: Could absolutely see them doing some some foul things on
Speaker 2: behalf of the nation of Russia.
Speaker 1: Sure, I don't know, man.
Speaker 4: Anyway, thanks a lot for the time.
Speaker 3: I think Anthony had something spiritual woo woo going on here.
Speaker 2: Maybe all right, all right, let's let's shift gears off
Speaker 2: of geopolitics and assassinations and Anthony, let's talk about this now.
Speaker 2: Is this a wo wo type of conversation or is
Speaker 2: this a organized religion type of conversation?
Speaker 1: Where are we going?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say it's necessarily woo woo.
Speaker 5: It is it is?
Speaker 6: It is religious? Okay, yes, okay. So I was watching
Speaker 6: this random video yesterday. I forgot to save it.
Speaker 5: Right now. I gotta preface this.
Speaker 6: I am vehemently against religious I'm gonna fuck this word
Speaker 6: up religious syncreticate.
Speaker 2: Synchronization, oh, secretismcretism.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think syncretism or secretism.
Speaker 6: Syncretism, like saying all religions are are the same.
Speaker 4: Ah, okay, right, I.
Speaker 6: I am I I am against that. In this video,
Speaker 6: it was super interesting. The video starts off with Christianity
Speaker 6: is the evolution of Germanic paganism.
Speaker 1: Now that's a new take.
Speaker 2: Usually I've heard Christianity is the adoption of mythraism, and
Speaker 2: and they brought in from the Persians, and they brought
Speaker 2: in from.
Speaker 1: The Silk road. I've heard all of these. It's a okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I.
Speaker 6: And I find it interesting that the same video has
Speaker 6: hit my feed like three or four times, and literally
Speaker 6: the first the first couple of times, the first five
Speaker 6: seconds they say that line, I just get pass it.
Speaker 6: I'm like no, no, uh uh no way. But finally
Speaker 6: I just listened to it and it made.
Speaker 5: It made sense. I won't lie.
Speaker 6: So essentially, what it breaks down to is that we
Speaker 6: are living in post Ragnarok times and the Christian in
Speaker 6: modern times, the Christian God is or Jehovah Yahweh, whatever
Speaker 6: you want to call him, is a renamed balder Balder, yes,
Speaker 6: which I won't lie characteristic wise, traits wise, and how
Speaker 6: they are talked about. If we were going to compare
Speaker 6: one god to another, Balder makes significant more sense for
Speaker 6: Yahweh or Christ than Odin and Thorp.
Speaker 1: So break this down for me.
Speaker 2: I've heard a few different types of Nordic pagans say
Speaker 2: that Balder and Jesus are a pretty equal storyline, you know,
Speaker 2: And I've only ever heard like two examples be given,
Speaker 2: and they always sound very like poor comparisons to me.
Speaker 2: So what are the examples that you're bringing here?
Speaker 6: Okay, So the the examples are honestly sparse at best,
Speaker 6: like super super basic.
Speaker 5: Balder is described.
Speaker 6: As like Balder the light he is, He's loved by everybody,
Speaker 6: He's all about peace. He is the exact opposite of
Speaker 6: his father Odin. Right, and that so you know the
Speaker 6: north Smith, Right, Balder dies well after Ragnarok, Balder comes
Speaker 6: back and rules.
Speaker 5: So Balder survives.
Speaker 6: Balder and his blind brother Hodor survive Ragnarok because they
Speaker 6: are in Hellheim. Right, That's the only place the afterlife,
Speaker 6: the underworld is the only place that isn't affected by Ragnarok.
Speaker 5: And they come back after.
Speaker 6: Right, Thor's two sons, Magni and Mody, survive and it
Speaker 6: takes to both of them to wield his hammer. There
Speaker 6: are a outside of the man and woman that survived,
Speaker 6: there are a few divine beings that do survive Ragnarok.
Speaker 6: So the other than him.
Speaker 5: Being light loving and.
Speaker 6: Really like, if I was gonna say a god that
Speaker 6: embodies Christian values, I could. I could say that for
Speaker 6: Balder and the fact that he actually dies and comes
Speaker 6: back to quote unquote comes.
Speaker 5: Back to life.
Speaker 6: Now granted it's not three days, it's at the end
Speaker 6: of a cycle, but there, but there are but there
Speaker 6: are similarities.
Speaker 2: I've also heard the same thing about Odin. He was
Speaker 2: hung on a tree for three days and came back,
Speaker 2: And I've heard that be the comparison to Jesus's story too.
Speaker 5: But Odin didn't die on the tree.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I thought he had. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: an expert in this. I thought he had hung on
Speaker 2: the tree until death. But he was reborn so to
Speaker 2: speak with And that was, you know, after the knowledge
Speaker 2: and the whole one eye thing.
Speaker 6: So the way I understood that the I the eye
Speaker 6: was a separate, separate circumstance. Right, So like here's so
Speaker 6: there's some people that say he transcended death on that
Speaker 6: when he hung on the tree. There's nothing in the
Speaker 6: myths that says he dies.
Speaker 5: The I believe thee.
Speaker 6: The saying is I know that that I hung on
Speaker 6: the trede nine nights long. No bread they no bread
Speaker 6: I was given, no meat I was given. I stabbed
Speaker 6: myself with my spear, sacrificing myself to myself. So there
Speaker 6: is nothing in there that says There's nothing in there
Speaker 6: that says he died. Now, he might have reached the
Speaker 6: point of death, but he did not cross over, right,
Speaker 6: And you can and I can judge, And for me,
Speaker 6: I can back that argument up with he does not
Speaker 6: go to Hellheim when Balder dies, he now resides in
Speaker 6: Hellheim like the rest of us. And presumably when the
Speaker 6: other gods die in when the other gods die in Ragnarok,
Speaker 6: they also go to Hellheim like the rest of us.
Speaker 6: But I've also got a lot that also opens up
Speaker 6: a whole nother can worms around the myth, Like if
Speaker 6: Balder can die and come back at the end of
Speaker 6: a cycle, what's going to happen? Like when that cycle ends,
Speaker 6: does Odin and Thor come back? And is there a
Speaker 6: second part to that myth that where that is yet
Speaker 6: to be written?
Speaker 5: Right there?
Speaker 6: I got so many unanswered, unanswerable questions from North's myths.
Speaker 5: Yeah that it's it's it's freaking nuts.
Speaker 6: But yeah, speaking onto that one bit, I thought that
Speaker 6: was super I heard that, and I don't ever see
Speaker 6: me converting back to Christianity. But if I ever did,
Speaker 6: I feel like that would be the logic that would
Speaker 6: get me there.
Speaker 2: So all right, so we could talk about the historicity
Speaker 2: of things in a moment, But as far as Balder's
Speaker 2: story goes, it depends on the myth because there's one
Speaker 2: story that says he died from a spearman of mistletoe.
Speaker 2: Is he the one that sacrificed his hand to Loki
Speaker 2: Sun the wolf?
Speaker 5: No, that's tear tear excuse.
Speaker 6: Okay, So so yeah, there's there are two different myths
Speaker 6: around Balder. Like like I am, the the whole argument
Speaker 6: was kind of cherry picking certain things like oftentimes comparative mythology.
Speaker 6: Does you know, and I'm not saying that that is
Speaker 6: the case.
Speaker 5: The video was super short.
Speaker 6: I've literally just been in my head about this for
Speaker 6: three or four days, and I thought you would find
Speaker 6: the thought interesting as well. Like, it's obviously nothing that
Speaker 6: could be proved historically, if if for discussions sake, it
Speaker 6: even was real, But the thought rabbit hole has some
Speaker 6: interesting implications on the pagan side and the Christian side.
Speaker 2: So especially when you talk about the conversion of the
Speaker 2: Northern European countries to Christianity or in that time frame, Catholicism,
Speaker 2: there is a lot of things that were said and
Speaker 2: done to try to blend the cultures more fluidly. I
Speaker 2: and I mean, yes, I've heard these stories before, especially
Speaker 2: about Balder And I've also heard tear b used as
Speaker 2: an example of a Jesus figure. Then I've also heard
Speaker 2: the same thing with like Odin hanging on a tree.
Speaker 2: I've heard that be used as an example of something
Speaker 2: towards a Jesus like figure. Every it's like to make
Speaker 2: the entire story of just the death and the resurrection
Speaker 2: and the whole thing about that you have to pull
Speaker 2: not you, I'm saying, like the people that would compare
Speaker 2: these two in some sort of like a Venn diagram,
Speaker 2: you have to pull from like three or four different
Speaker 2: gods stories to make up the one story of your
Speaker 2: boy Jesus.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: And with that being said, the Mythraic religion had something
Speaker 2: simil uh. The Zoroastrians had something similar, I want to say,
Speaker 2: not the Hindus.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: There was something of the Eastern, like far far Eastern
Speaker 2: that had a figure that had a similar storyline to
Speaker 2: the story of Jesus. It's like there's too many missing
Speaker 2: gaps to say one hundred percent that this is a
Speaker 2: one in one comparison. And you acknowledge that too, and
Speaker 2: I appreciate that it is interesting to look at. Don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong, I just I personally don't see it,
Speaker 2: especially when you look at the historicity of Yeshiah of
Speaker 2: Nazareth and the whole story of him, the manuscripts that
Speaker 2: have been transcribed and found and verified to be from
Speaker 2: the day and age. I it's it's it doesn't really
Speaker 2: hold a lot of water to me personally. I see
Speaker 2: it as a as like the thought process and like
Speaker 2: the hypothetical dogmatic debate that can happen because of these
Speaker 2: one hundred percent but especially when you're talking about the
Speaker 2: Nordic religion, because like you said, there's so many unknown
Speaker 2: things like, for instance, and this I hope this doesn't
Speaker 2: offend anybody.
Speaker 1: I am not intending to. I would like to be
Speaker 1: proven wrong on this.
Speaker 2: But we don't accurately know the name of all nine
Speaker 2: realms within the Nordic religion. We know seven of them,
Speaker 2: and two of them we are guessing at. But it
Speaker 2: would be the same if I'm not mistaken. And this
Speaker 2: is not a comparison of saying like in the Bible
Speaker 2: they say the ring of fire and they say shoal
Speaker 2: and they say, hell, it's all the same place, and
Speaker 2: it's like, it's not. That's not the same place. You
Speaker 2: gotta look at how it was being used in all
Speaker 2: these things. But so many people use these words interchangeably
Speaker 2: to make a point, if my studies are correct on this,
Speaker 2: as far as the Nordic religion of things goes, we
Speaker 2: know seven of the nine realms, but two of those
Speaker 2: realms have names attributed to them that other Nordics were
Speaker 2: using in other sagas almost interchangeably with these other two.
Speaker 2: And so it's like we don't really know much as
Speaker 2: far as the concrete of the religion. And a lot
Speaker 2: of that was because it was passed down orally, and
Speaker 2: a lot of these things weren't put pen to paper
Speaker 2: until much much later, after you know, hundreds of years
Speaker 2: of these people practicing this religion. And I also we
Speaker 2: can go back all the way to the Druids as
Speaker 2: far as like the protogenesis of the orators, right, the
Speaker 2: ones that passed it down orally for centuries until it
Speaker 2: had to be finally transcribed. And then half of the
Speaker 2: sources we have on it were written by Catholic monks.
Speaker 2: So you also have to test the not just test
Speaker 2: the spirit on these things, but you've got to test
Speaker 2: the biases on these things as well. But I mean, zombie,
Speaker 2: go ahead or ravenly excuse me to speak up on
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 7: I was just gonna say just about the story of
Speaker 7: his death and stuff.
Speaker 1: Like, there's really not.
Speaker 7: A lot of information that he's been mentioned a few
Speaker 7: times by an Icelandic excuse me, an Icelandic medieval scholar
Speaker 7: was actually wrote like the majority of his death using
Speaker 7: the mistletoe that was wielded that Loki convinced on the
Speaker 7: other guy to throw. And then there's like a Danish
Speaker 7: historian that also wrote about him briefly in medieval context,
Speaker 7: and then you have an and then he's mentioned one
Speaker 7: more time in an Anglo Saxon chronicle. The thing about
Speaker 7: history and about losing especially the oral language between people
Speaker 7: and the differences is the problem being is that you
Speaker 7: have differences in understanding words and then also using and
Speaker 7: translating those words. And this is one of those religions
Speaker 7: that is great, but there's a lot that's been lost.
Speaker 7: And even I follow a lot of historians that actually
Speaker 7: live there, there are from there, and they break down
Speaker 7: a lot of this information and there's a lot that's
Speaker 7: still like missing pieces. I mean, it's like trying to
Speaker 7: put together a puzzle, and then you have Christians that
Speaker 7: came in and wiped shit out, so it's like you
Speaker 7: don't have everything. So I find it interesting to tie
Speaker 7: lots of different religions together because there's lots of similarities
Speaker 7: across the globe with religion, especially when it comes to
Speaker 7: like origin stories and like specific like the flood stories
Speaker 7: and certain things. There's specific things that are seen globally
Speaker 7: with tribes and different locations. So it's a fascinating topic
Speaker 7: either way.
Speaker 2: The global flood story is another one that's really fascinating.
Speaker 2: A lot of people will compare that to the epic
Speaker 2: of Gilgamesh. Right, that's like the older or oldest quote
Speaker 2: unquote story of the global flood. We don't even have
Speaker 2: a complete copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh. The one
Speaker 2: that most people reference is the most complete copy that
Speaker 2: we have ever found, but that's even missing entire sections
Speaker 2: out of it, and say, piece together from other things,
Speaker 2: from other types or other of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Speaker 2: It was written and rewritten so many times that at
Speaker 2: a certain point it's like, Okay, y'all didn't even make
Speaker 2: a complete copy of this until what like four hundred
Speaker 2: years after nobody was worshiping the dude anymore, or at
Speaker 2: least referring to him as some sort of a historical source.
Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right. As far as the.
Speaker 2: Christian chroniclers, of what they were seeing and what they
Speaker 2: were being told by their heathens to the north and
Speaker 2: all of these things, mistletoe is always very fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: Even the Romans wrote down how the gauls the Druids
Speaker 2: were taking golden sickles, and like harvesting mistletoe is a
Speaker 2: part of a whole ceremony they were doing. When asked
Speaker 2: about this, they explained that mistletoe was one of the
Speaker 2: only plants that was not helped me out the reason
Speaker 2: why it was able to kill Balder.
Speaker 1: It was it's not that it wasn't named. It wasn't
Speaker 1: it wasn't not blessed.
Speaker 6: No, so sorry so in regardless to Metropo. So the
Speaker 6: reason mistletoe was able to kill him is Balder had
Speaker 6: dreams of his death, a foreshadowing, and frigg his mother,
Speaker 6: Odin's wife went around and extracted promises from every single
Speaker 6: thing in the universe, from being to plants to rocks
Speaker 6: to not kill Balderah. Even the Jotans swore they would
Speaker 6: not harm Balder.
Speaker 5: They loved him.
Speaker 6: Right, She overlooked mistletoe because she had thought that there
Speaker 6: was no way that mistletoe could possibly hurt her son.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Right, And so we're going off the minutes where the
Speaker 6: mistletoe Dardult kills Barto kills Balder, And yeah, there's there's
Speaker 6: a lot of contention around that. There's a like I'm
Speaker 6: gonna tie in, I I would push fact that we
Speaker 6: do know, we do know what that what the nine
Speaker 6: realms are. Some of the names change differently depending on region,
Speaker 6: but I'm I'm sure there's people that will argue against that.
Speaker 6: But getting back to the Balder bit story, So what
Speaker 6: happened is Loki uses some magic to turn missiletoe into
Speaker 6: a dart a small spear, basically manipulates it to the
Speaker 6: point where it's hard enough that it can that it
Speaker 6: can pierce Balder. Because once Frigg had essentially gotten all
Speaker 6: these all these promises, they made a festival out of it,
Speaker 6: right a balder. Balder died by his own huberis at
Speaker 6: that point because everything had extracted a promise that they
Speaker 6: wouldn't harm them. So they're trying to stab them with spears,
Speaker 6: throwing rocks, all this other thing, and everything is just
Speaker 6: act off of them, right. Yeah, And Balder has a
Speaker 6: blind brother named Hodor, who I'm probably pronouncing that wrong.
Speaker 1: It's h O d u r.
Speaker 6: Somebody with better Norse can correct me on it.
Speaker 4: Hole.
Speaker 6: But yeah, uh, but he Hodor's blind, He's not able
Speaker 6: to u He's not able to do it.
Speaker 5: Right. So Loki, being the mischievous.
Speaker 6: One that he is and super jealous of all the
Speaker 6: love and attention that Balder gets, crafts this dart out
Speaker 6: of mistletoe and convinces Balder to join in the fun
Speaker 6: and Balder throws the missletoe dart that kills Balder.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, as a matter of fact, Raven Lee just
Speaker 1: shared something to the chat. I'm go ahead and read it.
Speaker 2: Here, it says the literary sources the pros Eda of
Speaker 2: the medieval Icelandic scholar Snorri Sterlison. From from the Treatise
Speaker 2: on Mythology and Poetics come the most complete account we
Speaker 2: have of the primary tale concerning Balder, the story of
Speaker 2: his death and resurrection. The tale can be briefly summarized
Speaker 2: as follows. When Balder began to have dreams of his death,
Speaker 2: Freg went around to everything in the world and secured
Speaker 2: from each of them an oath to not harm her son.
Speaker 2: Confident Balder's invincibility, the gods amused themselves by throwing weapons
Speaker 2: and any random thing they could find at Balder, and
Speaker 2: watched them.
Speaker 1: Bounce off of him, leaving him utterly unscathed.
Speaker 2: Loki, the guileful trickster of the gods, since an opportunity
Speaker 2: for mischief. He inquired of Freg whether she had overlooked
Speaker 2: anything whatsoever in her quest to obtain oaths. She casually
Speaker 2: answered that she had thought the missletoe to be too
Speaker 2: small and harmless a thing to bother asking for such
Speaker 2: a promise. Loki straightaway made his spear from the missletoe
Speaker 2: and convinced the blind god hold holder, I can't do
Speaker 2: the ours to throw it at Balder. The projectile pierced
Speaker 2: the god and he fell down dead. The English gods
Speaker 2: then ordained that one of them should go to the
Speaker 2: underworld to see if they're I'm sure there's more to it,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think they went to the underworld to
Speaker 2: see if he had in fact died, and they witnessed it,
Speaker 2: and that, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't that one of
Speaker 2: the reasons, if not the reason, that Loki was sentenced
Speaker 2: to like be tortured for all eternity or whatever.
Speaker 5: I mean, that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean.
Speaker 6: There were there were, there were other things, and that
Speaker 6: they actually yet. Odin sent Skerner down to Hellheim, not
Speaker 6: to see if he was dead, but to see if
Speaker 6: Hell would Hell would release him from her realm. And
Speaker 6: Hell said that if every living being weeped for Balder's death,
Speaker 6: that she would release that she would release Balder and
Speaker 6: all but one being in the entire universe wept for
Speaker 6: Balder's death, or one giantess refused to weep Balder's death.
Speaker 6: I forget the name that they give her at first,
Speaker 6: but come to find out it's low key in disguise.
Speaker 1: Okay, actually the rest of it's right here. Okay.
Speaker 2: The anguish gods then ordained that one of them should
Speaker 2: go to the underworld to see if there was any
Speaker 2: way Balder could be retrieved from the clutches of the
Speaker 2: death goddess Hell her her Maud, and another one of
Speaker 2: Odin's many sons agreed to make the journey, and mounting
Speaker 2: odin steed slept Near, which, by the way, is also
Speaker 2: Loki's son that he gave birth to when he turned
Speaker 2: himself into a female horse to dissuade the giant from
Speaker 2: completing the walls. That's also pretty fascinating as well. Slept
Speaker 2: near is the eight legged horse that allegedly the eight
Speaker 2: reindeer that pulled Santa sleighs stemmed from.
Speaker 1: But talk for another day.
Speaker 2: He rode down to the World Tree until he came
Speaker 2: to its dark and damp roots, wherein lies Hell's a boat.
Speaker 2: When he arrived, he found his brother Pale and Grimm.
Speaker 2: Sitting in the seat of honor next to Hell, Hermaud
Speaker 2: implored the dreadful goddess to release Balder, and after much persuasion,
Speaker 2: she replied that she would give him up if and
Speaker 2: only if everything in the world would weep for Balder,
Speaker 2: to prove, in other words, that he was a universally
Speaker 2: beloved As hermit hacclaimed, the whole world did indeed weep
Speaker 2: for the generous son of odin all that is save
Speaker 2: one creature, the giantess. Uh yeah, I'm not gonna try
Speaker 2: to pronounce that, because I don't speak the language next
Speaker 2: to us as thanks generally, as generally assumed to be
Speaker 2: Loki in disguise callously refused to perform the act that
Speaker 2: would secure Balder's return, and so Balder was doomed to
Speaker 2: remain with Hell in her joyless realm. While this account
Speaker 2: comes overwhelmingly from one source, bits and pieces of it
Speaker 2: can be found in earlier Old Norse poetry, and many
Speaker 2: details of the narrative are depicted on pieces of jewelry
Speaker 2: dating from before the Viking Age. We can be received
Speaker 2: reasonably certain that the tale as old as snory is
Speaker 2: not only authentic, at least in his general outline, but
Speaker 2: very very old.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 2: So there is references to that story, and again there
Speaker 2: may be nuances to it. It might be like a
Speaker 2: small reference somewhere here, in a small pictogram here that
Speaker 2: is the most complete story that we have of the
Speaker 2: entire thing. I get it, But that's that's the thing
Speaker 2: that's not exactly a comparison to the story of Jesus.
Speaker 2: I I could see if you were like squinting your
Speaker 2: eyes and turn your head sideways and you're jumping through
Speaker 2: a few hoops to make the comparison. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying you, Anthony. I'm saying like the people on the
Speaker 2: internet that try to say that it's the same thing.
Speaker 2: Jesus is literally this guy too, and it's I've seen
Speaker 2: them before and again it's it's always very weak arguments
Speaker 2: and very fragmented sources. Okay, with a grain of salt,
Speaker 2: I understand that most North mythology is fragmented sources, but you.
Speaker 1: See what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's like they're taking a small snippet out of the
Speaker 2: entire thing to try to draw that comparison. I equally
Speaker 2: disagree with people taking a small snippet out of the
Speaker 2: Bible and trying to do a whole sermon on it,
Speaker 2: like one sentence without any of the outlying context.
Speaker 6: You know, Yeah, I mean it's it's it's definitely a
Speaker 6: cherry pinking argument. Yeah, it was just a time i'd
Speaker 6: really heard that. I didn't know if you had ever
Speaker 6: heard anything like that before. I thought, like, like I said,
Speaker 6: for me, it was just I don't think it's true,
Speaker 6: but it was like, you know, dog, I just like
Speaker 6: to go down the random rabbit holes.
Speaker 1: Oh, no doubt.
Speaker 2: And I mean the Norse mythology in and of itself
Speaker 2: or the Norse religion.
Speaker 1: I should say, I don't want to.
Speaker 2: I don't wanna you know, sound like I'm belittling it
Speaker 2: in any way, because I'm not.
Speaker 1: It is a ultimate well you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: There are people that still worship these gods full till
Speaker 2: full hilt, like with the amount of faith that I
Speaker 2: worship God and Jesus. So like I understand, and I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to belittle these people their beliefs, but that
Speaker 2: being said, it's.
Speaker 1: I've seen it. I understand why.
Speaker 2: That the the moral dogma and the traditions and the
Speaker 2: type of lifestyle that the pros and poetics you know,
Speaker 2: teach to live by. It's typically morals that most people
Speaker 2: could agree with, as far as like how to behave,
Speaker 2: how to speak to people, how to honor your responsibilities
Speaker 2: and your commitments, don't get drunk, be a gracious host.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: Most of what they teach and preach is stuff that
Speaker 2: most human beings could get down with by today's standards.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I get it. It's fascinating to dive into.
Speaker 6: There is also in line in the hovel of all
Speaker 6: that essentially translates out to trust no bitch, but guys
Speaker 6: are pieces of shits too.
Speaker 1: Oh but I thought you meant like actual bitch, like
Speaker 1: a female dog.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yo, the wolf mother would have something to
Speaker 2: say on that, bro.
Speaker 5: Modern street translation. I believe the actual line is there.
Speaker 5: It's you know, sritnicky things.
Speaker 6: And one of the things it talked about is do
Speaker 6: not trust a woman's heart for on a spinning wheel.
Speaker 6: It was fettered or something. But it also says that.
Speaker 6: It also says immediately after that that I speak for
Speaker 6: both sides. Oftentimes men speak fairly but have poor intentions.
Speaker 2: That's fair that that's very fair, you know, and I mean,
Speaker 2: if we're gonna get real here, real uncomfortable. As far
Speaker 2: as the way that Nordic people treated their women folk,
Speaker 2: a lot of scholarly debate has been done on this
Speaker 2: to say, like, oh, no, it was a very equal
Speaker 2: culture because women could divorce their husbands, but husbands could
Speaker 2: take like three or four wives if they so chose.
Speaker 1: Women could not take three or four husbands.
Speaker 2: I would not call that equal just because a woman
Speaker 2: had the right to divorce her husband and in rare
Speaker 2: cases would be able to even go up on the
Speaker 2: front lines with them. And as far as inheritance goes,
Speaker 2: I think there was a couple of times where like
Speaker 2: women could even get to the rank of y'alll, which
Speaker 2: is dope. They wouldn't become a queen of like an
Speaker 2: entire region like not you wouldn't have a queen of
Speaker 2: the Danes leading a raid somewhere like that would that
Speaker 2: would have never happened. And a lot of that does,
Speaker 2: I think have to go into the realm of like
Speaker 2: trial by combat or at least because you had to
Speaker 2: take the throne more often than it would be passed
Speaker 2: down to you, and most not all, there are some
Speaker 2: women out there that are absolutely stone cold killers in
Speaker 2: hand to hand combat. Most of the Viking men I believe,
Speaker 2: could have bested Viking women.
Speaker 1: At hand to hand combats.
Speaker 2: So if a woman would have achieved the rank of
Speaker 2: some like that, I think she would have been killed
Speaker 2: before she would have ever gotten a chance to do anything.
Speaker 2: But it's not like women were not respected or anything.
Speaker 2: It's not like they were looked at like second class citizens.
Speaker 1: Or any of that. It's just I feel like the
Speaker 1: culture was not as equidescent.
Speaker 2: As a lot of our modern interpretations would like to
Speaker 2: let it be seen as.
Speaker 1: Raven Lee please chime in.
Speaker 7: Well, it's kind of ironic that you're bringing us up,
Speaker 7: because I was sitting here while we've been talking, reading
Speaker 7: this new thing that just posted ten hours ago in
Speaker 7: the Science News saying iron Age Celtic women's social and
Speaker 7: political power just got a boost. And what this is
Speaker 7: talking about is they've been excavating these iron Age skeletons
Speaker 7: from these Celtic sites in southern England, and the DNA
Speaker 7: clues indicate that pretty much the males integrated into all
Speaker 7: female societies, and that the that they're proving that the
Speaker 7: women were actually inherently there's a the female centered marriage
Speaker 7: pattern that they were actually integrating certain specific men into it.
Speaker 7: And they've been digging up. They have fifty seven skeletal
Speaker 7: remains near this site, and then they all share a
Speaker 7: typical inherited from their mother, revealing that both sexes shared
Speaker 7: maternal ancestry and at the they were female dominated societies
Speaker 7: and that they allowed certain males to immigrate into it.
Speaker 7: And so I haven't finished the entire article, but I
Speaker 7: found that to be really interesting because I was like, well,
Speaker 7: this is interesting to because this isn't the only site
Speaker 7: globally where there is all female cultures where the men
Speaker 7: were coming in and providing something that the women needed obviously.
Speaker 1: Sperm, but protection.
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, but there is a lot of other,
Speaker 7: you know, groups that have been male female led. So
Speaker 7: I haven't got to read the whole article yet, but
Speaker 7: I'm still trying to finish reading it.
Speaker 2: There is absolutely something to be said for that, especially
Speaker 2: because there were so many men that would die in
Speaker 2: battle and the women would inherit their lot, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. There are plots of land their their
Speaker 2: title in some cases. So there were examples of matriarchal.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say tribes. That's no settlements, if
Speaker 2: you will, but that is more of a few and
Speaker 2: far between things, or at least to my knowledge. If
Speaker 2: there is new evidence that has come out to say otherwise,
Speaker 2: and I would love to hear more about it.
Speaker 1: But if I'm not gonna say, like, correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: Largatha didn't she lead a predominantly female rand settlement, And
Speaker 2: I know they they made a reference to that on
Speaker 2: the show Vikings, But historically speaking, if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 2: Largatha also did that with a lot of widows and
Speaker 2: a lot of elderly gentlemen that weren't seen as a threat,
Speaker 2: so to speak. But they pretty much just kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to do their own thing away from the society
Speaker 2: and the bullshit for lack of better words that they
Speaker 2: had left. There are examples of that, for sure, and
Speaker 2: there's there's examples of women being buried with all of
Speaker 2: the jewelry and the gold and the things to show
Speaker 2: a level of status, and the level of status given
Speaker 2: to the woman in that burial site would indicate that
Speaker 2: that was not secondhand from her husband's accomplishments. That was
Speaker 2: decorations and things that were given or earned.
Speaker 1: By her off of her merits.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying again like women were seen as
Speaker 2: less than by any means. There are examples throughout there's
Speaker 2: female yarls. I mean, yeah, we could look at the
Speaker 2: example of like Budica. We're gonna go to like the
Speaker 2: ancient times, But the only reason that Bhudica led the
Speaker 2: charge in the way that she did was because her
Speaker 2: husband was dead and that they had just assaulted.
Speaker 1: Her daughters and her.
Speaker 2: But like, if her husband was alive, Boudica would not
Speaker 2: have been on the front lines. And so it's more
Speaker 2: of a case by case situation. I would argue that
Speaker 2: it's not very indicative of the entire culture.
Speaker 6: I don't know though, so I so, yeah, there's there's
Speaker 6: absolutely examples there. I'm not a super historian, but but
Speaker 6: I know I've read I've read it there, and I'm
Speaker 6: confident enough to say that it has been there. Okay, So,
Speaker 6: but it was kind of one of those things. It
Speaker 6: was more of an exception than a rule. Now, what
Speaker 6: I want to add to that, And I think when
Speaker 6: we are looking back, and this isn't just in the
Speaker 6: Norse Pagans this is across the board.
Speaker 5: But using like the.
Speaker 6: Example you gave of, oh, you know, Norse women were
Speaker 6: you know, were traded so good because you know they
Speaker 6: were able to divorce their husband's own land.
Speaker 5: This, that and the other thing.
Speaker 6: I think oftentimes where we get lost societally looking back
Speaker 6: at older cultures and especially the Norse. That's the example
Speaker 6: that I know the best people confuse.
Speaker 5: Rights for equity. Yeah, and do we.
Speaker 6: In modern society, especially Western society, we are not able
Speaker 6: to understand how two things can be equal but different, right,
Speaker 6: Like I think in from from my understanding in vite
Speaker 6: in Norse Germanic culture, women were equal, but they were different.
Speaker 6: They they had they had different roles and obviously on
Speaker 6: you know just as today you know you got your tomboys. Sure,
Speaker 6: but yeah, that's for me. That's why, like I kind
Speaker 6: of stopped looking back, because we can't understand like we were.
Speaker 6: There's so much that we just genuinely we can conceptualize,
Speaker 6: but we we can know it, but we can't really
Speaker 6: understand it because as a whole we just don't understand
Speaker 6: those two things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could agree with that one hundred percent. Ravenly
Speaker 2: just sent a couple of other things.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 1: This is the article I'm assuming you were reading here.
Speaker 2: It says matriarchal practice is characterized by many British Celtic
Speaker 2: community British Celtic that Bibutica. Okay, hell yeah, here we
Speaker 2: go by British Celtic communities. The scientists say further comparisons
Speaker 2: to mitochondrial DNA from people buried at one five six
Speaker 2: British one fifty six British. I'm not sure if that's
Speaker 2: an age or a location of a dig site could
Speaker 2: be either or and continental European archaeological sites I guess
Speaker 2: i'd answer my question. Spanning about six thousand years, revealed
Speaker 2: shared maternal ancestries at six other British Iron Age locations.
Speaker 2: Most of these sites date between four hundred BC and
Speaker 2: five fifty BC. Previous archaeological finds and historical accounts that
Speaker 2: suggesid Celtic women held considerable status. Greek and Roman writers
Speaker 2: describe powerful female political leaders in Iron Age England, including
Speaker 2: two Celtic queens Hell yeah. Prestigious ornaments and other items
Speaker 2: placed in the graves of Western European Celtic women hinted
Speaker 2: at societies in which property was inherited through maternal lines
Speaker 2: absolutely quote that said, we were not expecting such a
Speaker 2: strong and widespread genie genetic signature of Matrio matriologically got
Speaker 2: it across Iron Age Britain, Cassidy says, wow, okay, so
Speaker 2: there are there is in fact a historical precedence to
Speaker 2: go off of with here, it says, across most of European.
Speaker 2: Between roughly three thousand and two thousand years ago, Cassidy's
Speaker 2: team found that Iron Age Celtic people in southern England,
Speaker 2: including Durotrigians.
Speaker 1: I think I nailed that one.
Speaker 2: Showed genetic signs of substantial meeting with continental Europeans who
Speaker 2: must have crossed it the English Channel. An infusion of
Speaker 2: continental European ancestry in England and Wales first occurred before
Speaker 2: the Iron Age, as early as around one thousand BC
Speaker 2: to eight hundred and seventy five BC. A twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one study concluded this those population movements may have brought
Speaker 2: Celtic languages to the British isles.
Speaker 1: I could believe that as well.
Speaker 2: Social structures can vary in present day matriarchal societies. Cassidy says,
Speaker 2: men sometimes dominate formal positions of authority, while women collaborate
Speaker 2: with local maternal relatives and other allies to control family property,
Speaker 2: direct food production, and make major buying and selling decisions.
Speaker 2: Unlike more common patriarchal systems in which a woman marries
Speaker 2: into a husband's family, matriarchal arrangements provide women with the
Speaker 2: more access to education and divorce.
Speaker 1: You know, there's also not there's some historical precedence to
Speaker 1: this as well.
Speaker 2: Spartan women, for instance, The Spartan women are actually who
Speaker 2: ran Sparta because the men weren't allowed to live in
Speaker 2: their home with their wife until they were thirty and
Speaker 2: had already accomplish at least one, if not two military campaigns.
Speaker 1: So as far as like who was.
Speaker 2: Running the home front, usually women were the ones that
Speaker 2: would inherit all of the land, all the property, all
Speaker 2: the whatever, because their husbands would typically die in battle.
Speaker 2: So what you had was essentially a women mafia running
Speaker 2: the city state of Sparta for the longest time. Now
Speaker 2: that being said, how did Spartan men marry a Spartan woman.
Speaker 2: They would force rape her, and that was how you
Speaker 2: took a wife. If you were able to top her,
Speaker 2: so to speak, then that is now your wife. And
Speaker 2: that's just how that went and it was accepted and
Speaker 2: all these things, so like that's not a positive thing,
Speaker 2: but that was also once that happened and the woman
Speaker 2: would take on all of the inheritance of that guy.
Speaker 2: It rolled in, it got passed down more to the
Speaker 2: daughters than to the sons. Again, because they would go
Speaker 2: on military campaign. I could see that also being a
Speaker 2: thing with the Nordic, Germanic, Celtic, the Britannic, the Danes.
Speaker 2: I could see something like that also happening because again
Speaker 2: these were warring nations. Yes they wanted peace, but they
Speaker 2: also pillaged as like a whole trade of theirs, so
Speaker 2: like you would go on rampage, you know you would.
Speaker 1: I could see why women would.
Speaker 2: Hold a lot more power in reality than what they
Speaker 2: would initially seem to the Europeans that were writing down
Speaker 2: what they were seeing.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, Anthony, go ahead.
Speaker 6: I just I just had to dip it in real quick.
Speaker 6: I got to get to bed. Y'all, have a good night,
Speaker 6: great conversations, and I will see all next.
Speaker 1: Week, no doubt.
Speaker 2: Brother, Thank you for stopping in this evening, of course,
Speaker 2: So this is fascinating.
Speaker 1: Stuff, y'all.
Speaker 2: I enjoy these types of conversations, religious or history, or
Speaker 2: whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1: I dig it one hundred percent with that.
Speaker 2: If y'all have anything else y'all really want to go
Speaker 2: on or talk about, I'm all ears.
Speaker 4: Have you heard of this new app?
Speaker 3: Shaw Holm Show Little Red Book kind of like the
Speaker 3: replacement for TikTok that's not going to be banned for
Speaker 3: some reason.
Speaker 2: We just talked about this on an episode we we
Speaker 2: did only a few hours ago.
Speaker 4: Oh you did so.
Speaker 2: I am probably gonna ruffle some feathers on this one.
Speaker 2: I am of the belief that any person who is
Speaker 2: downloading that app for content creation purposes should be arrested
Speaker 2: for high treason.
Speaker 1: That's just me, Yeah, arrested.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying put to death or anything like that,
Speaker 2: because most of the people that are downloading it are idiots.
Speaker 2: But this is an app that is not even shy
Speaker 2: about the fact that they are, in fact an espionage
Speaker 2: operation for the CCP. Like that's not a hypothetical, that's
Speaker 2: not a well you know what they say, Like, No,
Speaker 2: this app is very open and honest about the fact
Speaker 2: that that's what this is. And you have all these
Speaker 2: American content creators who are leaving TikTok and downloading this
Speaker 2: as a form of protests to the government. So on paper,
Speaker 2: you are actively and knowingly contributing to espionage in a
Speaker 2: an enemy of the state. So I would take that
Speaker 2: as you're aiding an espionage knowingly and willingly and should
Speaker 2: be tried for treason.
Speaker 4: That's just me reason.
Speaker 3: Well, it's like, what kind of material is going to
Speaker 3: be transferred to China through this app?
Speaker 2: So it is able to and again everything I'm about
Speaker 2: to say, yes, I understand that the CIA and the
Speaker 2: Patriot Act and the NSA can do all these things
Speaker 2: from our phones.
Speaker 1: Currently, I get that.
Speaker 2: This this app wants it's download the same with TIMU
Speaker 2: by the way, but I'm not saying that everybody the
Speaker 2: downloaded team who should be arrested like this isn't something
Speaker 2: that most people knew about. Team who was actually down
Speaker 2: getting more data from us than TikTok ever has. And
Speaker 2: that's also not even a debatable topic. This red Book
Speaker 2: app is, Yeah, I don't even know how to pronounce
Speaker 2: the name, so I think it's either red note or
Speaker 2: red book or whatever the case it is. It's able
Speaker 2: to turn on your camera, even if your phone is
Speaker 2: off and the battery is dead. It is able to
Speaker 2: take all of your biometrics. It is able to track
Speaker 2: everything that you do on every app, any of the
Speaker 2: encrypted apps that you have, it's able to cut straight
Speaker 2: through them. If it's already on your phone. It's everything,
Speaker 2: every single thing that you have access to. It could
Speaker 2: turn on your camera right now and take a three
Speaker 2: D image of your house and then put it up
Speaker 2: in their system and their database that they know the
Speaker 2: infrastructure of whatever. If you bring it to work and
Speaker 2: you have this red Book app on your phone, it
Speaker 2: could absolutely just track your movements and take scans of
Speaker 2: the entire facility and be able to tell where would
Speaker 2: be the best place to strike to blow that place up.
Speaker 2: It's it is insane, and it's telling you verbatim this
Speaker 2: is yeah, it's Chinese own. So clearly the CCP.
Speaker 1: Has majority ownership of it.
Speaker 2: But it is for the purpose of collecting data for
Speaker 2: espionage reasons, and people are downloading it to give a
Speaker 2: middle finger to the government because their butt hurt that
Speaker 2: TikTok's going away, and it's like, I'm trying, dude, I'm
Speaker 2: trying to have empathy for people please do. Because Jonathan
Speaker 2: and me got into it over this today because he
Speaker 2: disagrees with me on this. He's like, he doesn't see
Speaker 2: TikTok as a bad thing, and I always have I
Speaker 2: understand that.
Speaker 1: I'm biased on this.
Speaker 2: I get it, and I understand that, yes, the NSA
Speaker 2: can do all of those things on my cell phone
Speaker 2: right now, even if I don't have any of these
Speaker 2: apps downloaded, because Patriot Act is a real thing.
Speaker 1: I get this.
Speaker 2: But if it's my government spying on me, which I
Speaker 2: don't like, but it's gonna happen regardless of my feelings
Speaker 2: on the matter, or a country who is an active
Speaker 2: enemy of ours, and it's very very likely that we
Speaker 2: go to war with them in the next decade, you
Speaker 2: see what I'm saying. I feel like this is not
Speaker 2: a fair comparison of a one to one.
Speaker 4: Here, Okay.
Speaker 3: I guess I don't regard them as as much of
Speaker 3: an enemy, and I really hope we can avoid war.
Speaker 3: I really think it's unnecessary. So well, I agree we're
Speaker 3: going to go to war in the next ten.
Speaker 2: Years because China sees no other option. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying the Chinese people that are out there just trying
Speaker 2: to earn their daily bowl of rice. Okay, clearly, I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about your average citizens just trying to make
Speaker 2: their way in this world. China's biggest asset has always
Speaker 2: been their numbers and their manufacturing capability.
Speaker 1: Okay, got it.
Speaker 2: When they gave way to the one child policy for
Speaker 2: I think it was like fifteen years or something like that,
Speaker 2: they screwed themselves out of their biggest assets. And they
Speaker 2: know that, which is why they have been trying to
Speaker 2: muscle in the financial sector and in the industry sector
Speaker 2: and in the tech sector, because what they can't do
Speaker 2: with numbers, they can make up for in technological advancements
Speaker 2: and closing in on the oil field and the oil
Speaker 2: market and the chips and the resource grabs and all
Speaker 2: of these things, which I understand it. I don't have
Speaker 2: a problem with. By the way, they're trying to look
Speaker 2: out for their future. And I mean as a as
Speaker 2: a realist, what country's leader wouldn't be looking out for
Speaker 2: his country's best interest ten twenty thirty years into the future.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: But that being said, they have done it to such
Speaker 2: a degree that now their youth have no motivation to
Speaker 2: do anything right now. I think they forget the name
Speaker 2: of the movement.
Speaker 1: Not the chin shell, lie down.
Speaker 3: The lie doown movement. I've heard of it. I don't
Speaker 3: think it's really big.
Speaker 2: It's not big in like the rural areas, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. If your family owns a farm, you're
Speaker 2: gonna work the farm as they always have. But the
Speaker 2: people in the cities, which are the people that they
Speaker 2: would want to work in the tech sector or go
Speaker 2: to college for something better, they yeah, there are some
Speaker 2: that are still grinding and earning their way, but it's
Speaker 2: I would say it's by the numbers I've seen. And
Speaker 2: again you have to test those numbers, because I mean,
Speaker 2: where are we really getting that intel from. It's like
Speaker 2: a third anybody from like fifteen to thirty years old,
Speaker 2: like a third of them have pretty much just said
Speaker 2: who cares anymore? Like the government's gonna take care of us.
Speaker 2: The CCP is gonna either give us food or let
Speaker 2: us starve. The jobs will be there or won't be
Speaker 2: there when I get to that age, it just doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: It's they'll do their part when the time comes. But
Speaker 2: it's not like they're openly happy about doing their part.
Speaker 2: They're they're pissed off that they are only a cog
Speaker 2: in the communist machine. But aside from that, why I
Speaker 2: see China as an enemy is because currently America is
Speaker 2: the only superpower on Earth right and the only reason
Speaker 2: we had that distinction is because we're able to wage
Speaker 2: a war on two fronts simultaneously right now. No other
Speaker 2: country can boast such a claim to the degree of
Speaker 2: which I'm talking about here. Yeah, you can have a
Speaker 2: group over in this country and a group over in
Speaker 2: this country fighting on behalf of your nation, not to
Speaker 2: the scale of two all out warfronts. We're the only
Speaker 2: ones that have the numbers of the capability to do so.
Speaker 2: China has been trying to level that playing field. I
Speaker 2: don't think they're trying to level that playing field just
Speaker 2: so that they can boast the claim.
Speaker 1: The same way that.
Speaker 2: Russia didn't boost up their military just to have a
Speaker 2: strong military. They boosted it up because they intended to
Speaker 2: use it. I don't believe that China is gearing up
Speaker 2: for war or building up their navy and trying to
Speaker 2: get their military numbers up and up, and trying to
Speaker 2: get new military tech, and every seems like every six
Speaker 2: weeks they're trying to release some new jet or some
Speaker 2: new fighter, some new stealth bomb, and all these things.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're doing that for bragging rights. I
Speaker 2: think they are trying to look for an opportunity to
Speaker 2: use their new shiny toys. I don't believe China is
Speaker 2: gonna openly attack us by any means. I believe that
Speaker 2: it's gonna become a trade war, and then one thing's
Speaker 2: gonna lead to another. It might be Taiwan, it might
Speaker 2: be a situation with Korea, it might be who knows
Speaker 2: what will be the actual catalyst to lead to Chinese
Speaker 2: troops and American troops firing at each other. But I
Speaker 2: see that as a real, real likely scenario in the
Speaker 2: next decade if some things really don't shift. I don't
Speaker 2: think Trump's gonna do anything to calm that down either.
Speaker 2: I don't think Trump's gonna instigate a war. I don't
Speaker 2: think he's gonna go and kick the hornet's nest necessarily.
Speaker 2: But he's also not known to be the chilliest guy ever,
Speaker 2: and neither is Gee. You see what I just I
Speaker 2: see it as the powder keg just keeps getting more
Speaker 2: and more packed full, ready to blow.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, what the
Speaker 3: flashpoint would be, and I think if it was gonna
Speaker 3: be anything, it would have to be Taiwan.
Speaker 5: I can see it.
Speaker 4: Japan, Japan.
Speaker 2: Japan has had a weird issue with China lately, with
Speaker 2: the way the Chinese navy has been going around their
Speaker 2: seas and stuff.
Speaker 1: And then China's kept building islands, they keeps san islands. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did that for a good while.
Speaker 2: They just kept dredging up sand and making an island
Speaker 2: and saying, yep, that's now Chinese territory, our sea, you know,
Speaker 2: our international seawaters go out even further now cut two
Speaker 2: three years later, and those big sandpiles they made have
Speaker 2: all gone back into the ocean because that's not how
Speaker 2: that works. So it's like everything they've tried to do
Speaker 2: to project power has ended up shitting in their own face.
Speaker 2: And I think that they are so pissed off about
Speaker 2: that that eventually they're gonna be left with no other
Speaker 2: option but to do something drastic, to like let there, let.
Speaker 1: Them be known, right, let them be heard. I hope
Speaker 1: I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: I hope that we can avoid all of it, because God,
Speaker 2: a war with China would not be good for anyone
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just aside from Taiwan.
Speaker 3: The only other situation I could foresity resulting in hostilities
Speaker 3: is if the US Navy, which controls most of the
Speaker 3: waterways in the world, tried to shut down the Malica
Speaker 3: Straits or something, and then China would feel like they
Speaker 3: need a navy to keep it open. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: hope that's not going to happen, or you know, maybe
Speaker 3: if the US government just ends up in so much
Speaker 3: debt that we have to withdraw the Navy from most
Speaker 3: of these other far flowing corners of the globe. China
Speaker 3: wants their navy to be the replacement, even though their
Speaker 3: ships currently can't go more than something like two hundred
Speaker 3: miles away from their own waters at this point. But
Speaker 3: I think that could change, and so yeah, it would
Speaker 3: probably be China, I mean, Taiwan or.
Speaker 4: The Malica Strait.
Speaker 3: I kind of doubt that it would be over these
Speaker 3: water claims or these islands because even though Japan claims
Speaker 3: the Sinhaku's, when you look at the map, they're actually
Speaker 3: really damn far away from Japan. And there's also you know,
Speaker 3: some disputed water between China and the Philippines and Vietnam.
Speaker 1: And we are really tight with the Philippines.
Speaker 3: And Vietnam for some reason, even though they're one of
Speaker 3: the last communist governments in the world.
Speaker 2: It's very strange how we're cool with Vietnam, Like we
Speaker 2: were cool with them like fifteen years after the whole
Speaker 2: situation where we had to go and get our diplomats.
Speaker 1: From the embassy exactly.
Speaker 2: Vietnam holds like they hold no beef at all towards
Speaker 2: like how things were in the past, and Vietnam vets
Speaker 2: go back there for like tours and stuff. There is
Speaker 2: no weirdness for some reason. They're very cool about things
Speaker 2: like wars War Man. Yeah, you kill my grandfather, but
Speaker 2: come on, come get some Taipei Like it's like.
Speaker 4: What did Yeah, they Hoachediman and hated the Chinese.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very common in Vietnam. So I think a
Speaker 3: lot of their overall geopolitical thought just for revolves around that.
Speaker 3: So even though America did bomb the shit out of them,
Speaker 3: they don't care about that as much as they hate Chinese.
Speaker 3: And I would liken this too. I have some German
Speaker 3: relatives and most people I talked to from Germany they
Speaker 3: hate Russia and they can forgive America for bombing the
Speaker 3: shit out of them because you know, we're enemies with
Speaker 3: Russia too, and they just say, fine, what took you
Speaker 3: so long?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So yeah, I find that kind of weird. So I
Speaker 3: don't really fit in with Germans on that front.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I could also see the bricks system being a catalyst
Speaker 2: on another regard, and like you're saying, like it could
Speaker 2: be the Islands, it could be the maloccer stry, it
Speaker 2: could be it could be all of these things kind
Speaker 2: of all falling into place at the same time to
Speaker 2: finally be the straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker 1: I could see that too.
Speaker 2: But the brick system being what it is in Brazil
Speaker 2: going through the coups that they have gone through, Venezuela
Speaker 2: getting weird and talking about how they want to invade
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, right hear me out. I don't think Venezuela
Speaker 2: is going to do anything militarily. They were already talking
Speaker 2: about invading their neighbors to the south and that still
Speaker 2: hasn't happened. But Maduro is talking about invading Puerto Rico
Speaker 2: using Brazilian troops, and yes, it's like talking head type
Speaker 2: of things. It's like campaign promises, whatever. But if something
Speaker 2: was to happen in Venezuela, China and Venezuela are very tight, right,
Speaker 2: and any of these bricks countries are very tight.
Speaker 1: I could see.
Speaker 2: Something happening with a nation not even connected to China
Speaker 2: by any other means other than just the bricks. And
Speaker 2: then because of an alliance or some sort of a
Speaker 2: you know, mutually assured defense contract type of situation, if
Speaker 2: we were to send American troops, not even a full
Speaker 2: scale invasion or operation blah blah blah, not even that,
Speaker 2: just troops are operating in South Africa. Throwing it out
Speaker 2: as an example, I think three years ago Russia and
Speaker 2: China did a joint naval strategic operation on the coast
Speaker 2: of South Africa. And of course they are both allies
Speaker 2: to South Africa through bricks, I get it. But that
Speaker 2: being the case, if we had US a team of
Speaker 2: US personnel in South Africa that just so happened to become,
Speaker 2: you know, in body bags, and they just so happened
Speaker 2: to have some sort of a Chinese conglomerate off the coast,
Speaker 2: I could see that being blamed of it Gulf of
Speaker 2: Tonkin type of situation or the USS liberty type of
Speaker 2: situation where it would be a false flag to kickstart
Speaker 2: a war. Yeah, I could see that absolutely in the
Speaker 2: works as well, but I don't. China is still a
Speaker 2: manufacturing powerhouse, but they're losing that by the day to
Speaker 2: their neighbors, not just Taiwan, not just Philippines, not just Indonesia,
Speaker 2: not just Singapore or all of them together. So give
Speaker 2: that another decade, especially with China's the population that's supposed
Speaker 2: to get to the workforce in ten years that won't
Speaker 2: be there because.
Speaker 1: They were never born.
Speaker 2: I see them feeling like they are backed into a
Speaker 2: corner very similarly. And this is not to throw shade
Speaker 2: at putin Russia. They were kind of backed into a corner.
Speaker 2: And yes, we can point blame at NATO, we can
Speaker 2: point blame at the US, we can point blame at Ukraine,
Speaker 2: but all the things fine, fine, fine, They felt so
Speaker 2: backed into a corner to where they had no other
Speaker 2: options but to take some sort of drastic action. It's
Speaker 2: not out of the realm of possibility, especially with Jijhaping
Speaker 2: having the cult of personality that he has around him.
Speaker 2: Nobody tells him no, or like, hey, sir, that doesn't
Speaker 2: sound like a good idea because blah blah blah, because
Speaker 2: he kills people that do that. That's again not even
Speaker 2: like a hypothetical, that's confirmed. So with that being said,
Speaker 2: if there was some sort of a false flag operation,
Speaker 2: or China does some thing because they feel like they're
Speaker 2: backed into a corner and if they don't do something now,
Speaker 2: then they won't have any leverage to do something ten
Speaker 2: years from now, twenty years from now, whatever. They could
Speaker 2: use that as justification to try something. I hope that
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I really don't want to go to war
Speaker 2: with China. The last time America fought the Chinese openly
Speaker 2: was in Korea. It wasn't a good situation for anybody.
Speaker 2: The war is still currently on, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: It's not like anybody really won that shit. So it's like,
Speaker 2: I hope that cooler heads can prevail. But with the
Speaker 2: way things are stacking up, I currently deem the CCP
Speaker 2: as a all out adversary to the United States.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so Si Ping has killed people where have
Speaker 3: you read that?
Speaker 1: Well, had them killed?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: You know what, we could pull a couple of these
Speaker 1: things up anyway, trying.
Speaker 3: To look it up right now, I got something from Politico.
Speaker 3: Some the guys have gone missing apparently.
Speaker 2: Well, we do know for a fact that the Chinese
Speaker 2: government has had secret police stations set up in America
Speaker 2: and they have bagged and tagged Chinese citizens that were
Speaker 2: here for school or for work that got a little
Speaker 2: too liberal on social media apps and things like that.
Speaker 2: And there have been multiple cases of people ending up
Speaker 2: getting arrested and sent home for this. When you talk
Speaker 2: about Xijaping, I'm trying to remember the examples.
Speaker 3: And saying a foreign and defense ministers, they've I guess
Speaker 3: gone missing. Let's see this articles from twenty twenty three
Speaker 3: and the one guy Lee Ka Chiang, a retired prime minister,
Speaker 3: had a heart attack in a swimming pool in Shanghai,
Speaker 3: and some people think that that was foul play too.
Speaker 4: It might have just been a heart attack. Though.
Speaker 3: You know, Maudza Doong had like twenty heart attacks in
Speaker 3: the last year of his life in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 4: Six, so I did not have that. It's not going
Speaker 4: into detail.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, he was in terrible shape for his last
Speaker 3: couple of years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I know how communist leaders keep power,
Speaker 2: and it's never because they're really good guys.
Speaker 3: Ever, uh huh, well, you know when I hear reports of, oh,
Speaker 3: somebody's you know, killed so many people. The last time
Speaker 3: I heard something like that was allegedly Kim Jong nunn
Speaker 3: had fifteen to thirty people executed because there was a
Speaker 3: flood somewhere due to heavy rain and the emergency management
Speaker 3: process didn't work right. But then I dug into it, like, okay,
Speaker 3: who were these people? And really it all just came
Speaker 3: down to rumors, no names, no confirmation.
Speaker 4: Now, maybe it happened, it's possible.
Speaker 1: But Kim John yeah.
Speaker 3: He said these stories and you know, they build on
Speaker 3: top of each other. And A said, yeah, that sounds
Speaker 3: like something he would do. But you know what if
Speaker 3: most of it or all of it's false, we just
Speaker 3: have no way of knowing.
Speaker 2: There's been multiple defects from North Korea that have come
Speaker 2: forward and said that, like, yeah, defectors, if it's discovered
Speaker 2: that you left North Korea, your brothers and sisters, your parents,
Speaker 2: and your cousins, like they go, three generations of your
Speaker 2: family all go to internment camps where they get worked
Speaker 2: to death.
Speaker 1: That's by I'm talking.
Speaker 2: I haven't heard one person come out of the North
Speaker 2: that hasn't boasted this claim. What was that one North
Speaker 2: Korean girl that was making a rounds on all the podcasts?
Speaker 2: Yon me Park, that's the one I knew. Her last
Speaker 2: name was Park. I couldn't remember the first name. Now,
Speaker 2: there are some people that have said, well, she's not
Speaker 2: telling the truth because ba ba bap, but her stories,
Speaker 2: but her stories can be verified. Yeah, some of the
Speaker 2: stories about how she ended up escaping, some of that
Speaker 2: isn't exactly lining up. But perhaps she doesn't want to
Speaker 2: tell the whole story. Maybe you know that there's like
Speaker 2: a hole in the fence. Maybe she doesn't want to
Speaker 2: bring awareness to it so we can get fixed kind
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's been a couple of escapees from China, especially is
Speaker 3: Shinjiang Province.
Speaker 4: One of them is named U.
Speaker 3: Tursun Isiah Wudu and the other ones the name is
Speaker 3: Cyra Gul Saaladbai, and they both told stories of well
Speaker 3: multiple iterations of stories where the first stories of these
Speaker 3: weiger in tournament camps sounded pretty boring, and then the
Speaker 3: second version had, uh, you know, somebody was tortured, and
Speaker 3: then the next version was their mass executions and mass
Speaker 3: rapes and you know, stuff that wasn't in their first
Speaker 3: telling of the story. So it leaves me with a
Speaker 3: lot of doubt that this stuff is real.
Speaker 2: There was that one story those Buddhist monks started just
Speaker 2: gutting the Weiger Muslims in the streets.
Speaker 1: Now that was pretty.
Speaker 2: Wild, but again that wasn't like indicative of the CCP
Speaker 2: that I could absolutely take that to be a rogue
Speaker 2: element of Buddhist monks who collectively decided.
Speaker 1: To go on their version of a jihad. You know,
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 2: I don't blame Jijaping for that one, but that's that's
Speaker 2: a thing that happen. And I mean, but we also
Speaker 2: know that China actively has sweatshops, we know that they
Speaker 2: use slave labor, and I mean, I'm not saying that this.
Speaker 2: There's tons of countries that do. I mean, look at
Speaker 2: the majority of the continent of Africa, Like it's that's
Speaker 2: not a new vibe. But I also don't take Jijaping
Speaker 2: to be a good guy by any means. If you
Speaker 2: know you actively have slave labor sweatshops in your country
Speaker 2: that you're benefiting from that that reads really shit behavior
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I need to research more. So thank you
Speaker 3: for the conversation. And I don't know if I should
Speaker 3: tell you this, but I did just download that app.
Speaker 2: Like no, Tony, All right, hold on, stop what you're
Speaker 2: doing and go look into this app for what it is,
Speaker 2: who owns it, what it actually is able to do. Brother,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you you may need to delete it off
Speaker 2: of your phone before it's too late.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, I got a couple of tabs open right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, and you know, you're a very
Speaker 1: analytical guy.
Speaker 2: You look at things from a very logic standpoint, and
Speaker 2: you also test the source more than most people. I
Speaker 2: will I will give to your credits. So look at this, dude.
Speaker 2: Find what you can find, and I would love to
Speaker 2: hear your first person accounts of what you find. I
Speaker 2: have my own biases on this. I understand that I
Speaker 2: am a bit clouded because of that. Sometimes on the
Speaker 2: other side of that, Jonathan has his biases and he
Speaker 2: is kind of clouded on certain things because of that.
Speaker 2: So you looking at things from the perspective that you do,
Speaker 2: I would love to hear what you find.
Speaker 3: Sure you said, look into this guy who's it Chee
Speaker 3: ching Ping or somebody else.
Speaker 2: Oh, I meant just the Red Book app or who
Speaker 2: owns it like the CCP owns it because it's Chinese owned,
Speaker 2: and like right off the top, they own sixty five
Speaker 2: percent controlling interest in any company that does anything in China.
Speaker 1: Fine, I get it. I am very.
Speaker 2: Much an enemy of communism. I've every Cuban I've ever
Speaker 2: met that has made it to America, most of them
Speaker 2: I've heard their words, not mine. When they see a
Speaker 2: person wearing a chega vera shirt, they need to be
Speaker 2: gunned down. Like they believe that if you support communism,
Speaker 2: you should be shot on site, because they saw what
Speaker 2: communism can lead to on the furthest of extremist sides
Speaker 2: of things. I know some people that are Americans born
Speaker 2: and raised in a Democratic Republic who for some reason
Speaker 2: think that communism can work. I don't understand that it's
Speaker 2: never been successfully done ever, but they sure try to
Speaker 2: push it. And I also understand that a lot of
Speaker 2: that has to do with biases, cultural, socioeconomic, and depending
Speaker 2: on which type of history book you read or which
Speaker 2: college professor got a hold to you when you were
Speaker 2: a young and impressionable twenty year old like, I get
Speaker 2: this too. Per the math, Communism has been the most
Speaker 2: detrimental set some ever devised to the human race. I
Speaker 2: heard someone say that Christianity has killed seven hundred million
Speaker 2: people since its inception, Communism has killed somewhere around one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million, And my argument against that one was, Okay,
Speaker 2: so Christianity has done this, and I mean, we could
Speaker 2: argue three hundred and fifty a d to now, but
Speaker 2: in reality, they didn't like consolidate and become a force
Speaker 2: until five hundred ish AD. So in fifteen hundred years,
Speaker 2: you Christianity has killed allegedly seven hundred million people in
Speaker 2: under two hundred and fifty years, Communism has killed one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million. That means you're like eleven times
Speaker 2: more likely to die from communism existing than you are
Speaker 2: to piss off Christians and get them on the war path.
Speaker 2: So I just to me by the numbers, Communism needs
Speaker 2: to be uprooted and abolished from the human race.
Speaker 1: That's just me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, I agree. I hate it.
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly how much to believe it from
Speaker 3: anything in history, but you know, I do hate communism,
Speaker 3: and I believe the death toll is probably somewhere very
Speaker 3: high like that.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I get it, America has done some
Speaker 2: foul things in the past. And I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: negate that, I'm not trying to sidestep it. But you
Speaker 2: look at the amount of knowledge that we as a
Speaker 2: human race have on this earth. Right for countries to
Speaker 2: still be operating in the way that they are, not all,
Speaker 2: but the ones that are operating under some sort of
Speaker 2: a communist or proto communist regime, it tells me that
Speaker 2: they are rooted in what I would classify as pure
Speaker 2: evil and pure imprisonment of not just the human mind,
Speaker 2: but they're attempting to imprison the human soul. And I
Speaker 2: personally have an issue with that. I don't I don't
Speaker 2: think China. I know, I know, I'm very biased. I'm
Speaker 2: very biased on my opinion on this. There's a ton
Speaker 2: of people that would disagree with me vehemently and shout
Speaker 2: until they're blue in the face that communism is the
Speaker 2: way of the truth in the life. I you know,
Speaker 2: that's just going to be one of those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think those people are malevolent. I think
Speaker 3: people in general, try to value good things and to
Speaker 3: believe in good and proper things, and they believe that
Speaker 3: whatever philosophy they latch onto is the best one on balance.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I would still agree with you that communism
Speaker 3: leads to the worst outcomes, and it leads to abject evil,
Speaker 3: and people break bad slowly. It's it seems like a
Speaker 3: good idea to start with, and then when they apply it,
Speaker 3: they've got to escalate.
Speaker 4: More and more force to enforce it, right.
Speaker 3: And they still think it's worth it breaking all those
Speaker 3: egg shells. But they didn't start off malevolent. And you
Speaker 3: still got to nip these bad ideas in the bud.
Speaker 3: And there's lots of you know, other ideas like that too,
Speaker 3: because they get attractive and people just had down the
Speaker 3: wrong path without knowing it.
Speaker 1: And I mean, we've had American politicians say the same thing.
Speaker 1: In my home state Louisiana, Huey Long, who was a
Speaker 1: very famous governor at one point in time, he was assassinated.
Speaker 1: If you look at the rhetoric he was saying, it
Speaker 1: is extremely communist in nature and borderline Hitler esque in.
Speaker 4: His very populist, very very and it.
Speaker 2: Was a chicken in every pot and he was going
Speaker 2: to just help out the poor man.
Speaker 1: And he was going to do this.
Speaker 2: My great grandmother was quoted as saying, if their last
Speaker 2: name is long, you better vote for him because they're
Speaker 2: for the poor man. And I'm like, that's not a
Speaker 2: good way of moving forward. But that was the mindset
Speaker 2: of a lot of people at that time. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not good. But somebody decided that that rhetoric didn't
Speaker 2: need to be spouted and gunned him down.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I heard a podcast about it. This man,
Speaker 3: I can't remember any of the details. He's from Winnsboro
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think so. It was some like BF
Speaker 2: town that most people have never heard of. But he
Speaker 2: could campaign like nobody's business. I think he made I
Speaker 2: think he went on record as making like fifty campaign
Speaker 2: or a campaign rallies in one month, like when it
Speaker 2: was time to go to the ballots, like your boy
Speaker 2: was on the road and he was talking, he was
Speaker 2: shaking hands. But he also was thrown in the insane
Speaker 2: asylum twice. He was like, he was not a stable individual.
Speaker 2: And when you look at his mannerisms, it is very
Speaker 2: indicative of an early Adolf Hitler, very very dramatic, very
Speaker 2: over the top and shouting things and using his hands
Speaker 2: and all that. It's it's it is crazy how those
Speaker 2: two line up. There was an argument to say that
Speaker 2: if he would have lived, he may have become the
Speaker 2: first US president from the state of Louisiana. And going
Speaker 2: off of how heavily he campaigned and what he was
Speaker 2: saying in the day and age he was saying it,
Speaker 2: that may have actually happened, which would have been a.
Speaker 1: Really bad thing. We almost had an American Hitler in
Speaker 1: the Helm of America at a very a very critical
Speaker 1: time in history, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well.
Speaker 3: That also reminds me kind of of the business plot,
Speaker 3: And I wonder what he would have made of that,
Speaker 3: because that was the plot that almost unseated FDR.
Speaker 4: Except Smedley Butler.
Speaker 1: The Bonus Army yet did.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. George Patton, when he.
Speaker 2: Was a captain, actually was one of the ones that
Speaker 2: fire bombed the World War One veterans on the Capitol lawn.
Speaker 4: Uh huh.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Paton, by the way, if we're talking about Nazis, he
Speaker 3: seemed to have pretty positive opinions about the Germans even
Speaker 3: after World War Two, and he really hated Russia. He
Speaker 3: wanted to go the war with Russia right away. So
Speaker 3: did Churchill. Yeah, nobody, I mean nobody else in the
Speaker 3: Western world seemed to want it any more war at
Speaker 3: that time though, and maybe it's good that we didn't.
Speaker 2: Pam was an old school soldier man. He really didn't
Speaker 2: care what the war was as long as there was
Speaker 2: a war to be fought. But his personal vendetta. He
Speaker 2: didn't hate the Nazis, he hated the Commis.
Speaker 4: Uh huh, yeah all the way.
Speaker 3: And I was reading recently Greece was almost lost to
Speaker 3: the Communists right after World War Two, and George Marshall
Speaker 3: from the US kind of wanted to let it go,
Speaker 3: but Churchill really put his foot down, and Churchill really
Speaker 3: saved Greece from communism. And I think nineteen forty seven,
Speaker 3: forty eight something like.
Speaker 2: That, Communism and fascism made their way through Europe a
Speaker 2: good bit. What was that guy in Britain He almost
Speaker 2: turned Britain into a fascist nation?
Speaker 1: Was it a Oswald Moseley?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean sounds right.
Speaker 2: He I mean they made a mention of him in
Speaker 2: a Peaky Blinders, But you could also go back and
Speaker 2: look at some of his speeches he was a homeboy
Speaker 2: to Adolf Hitler in actuality, and he was a full
Speaker 2: on fascist sympathizer and a blatant fascist.
Speaker 3: A lot of the Royal family was too. That's where
Speaker 3: what's his name, Rudolph Hess was trying to fly to England.
Speaker 3: Rudolph Hes successfully flew himself to England to meet somebody
Speaker 3: in Scotland. I guess it was Scotland. And yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: he was trying to deliver a letter to the king,
Speaker 3: and he brought a letter with him. In that letter
Speaker 3: that has been confirmed and witnessed by two other people
Speaker 3: that had existed, but the contents of that letter to
Speaker 3: this day are unknown.
Speaker 2: It makes sense that he would, Yeah, it makes sense
Speaker 2: that he would go to you know, jolly old England
Speaker 2: with that, seeing as how they are all of German descent,
Speaker 2: the Royal family that is, and how the Royal family
Speaker 2: kind of they didn't hate the Nazis. They didn't like
Speaker 2: that they were enemies and they were bomb the hell
Speaker 2: out of them. But as far as the German style
Speaker 2: of fascism, the Royals didn't, they didn't dislike it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Royal family, Yeah, they were on the fence
Speaker 3: for sure, but Yeah. One other last thing I want
Speaker 3: to say about World War Two I was reading about
Speaker 3: is that Churchill was against the Normandy invasion and its
Speaker 3: planning stages, and the reason was that he felt like
Speaker 3: it was a distraction from the more important soft underbelly
Speaker 3: of Europe. He wanted to focus British and American energy
Speaker 3: on keeping southeastern Europe like Yugoslavia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, out
Speaker 3: of the hands of the Soviets or the Germans because
Speaker 3: a lot of the people there didn't like the Soviets
Speaker 3: or the Germans, and diverting to Normandy really, you know,
Speaker 3: opened that area up for the Soviets to take it,
Speaker 3: and Churchill was opposed to that.
Speaker 4: So I guess I'm on Churchill's side for this one.
Speaker 3: The Normandy invasion was actually way too risky, probably shouldn't
Speaker 3: have been done, and it really handed a lot of
Speaker 3: territory to the Soviets at the end of the war.
Speaker 1: In effect, it did.
Speaker 2: But dude, I've heard this about Churchill. I haven't looked
Speaker 2: into it much. I remember hearing a thing or two
Speaker 2: about it. If the Allied forces would have gone that
Speaker 2: route and invaded and tried to get a foothold in
Speaker 2: southern Europe and worked their way up to in the
Speaker 2: war and all that, the amount of tooth and nail
Speaker 2: fighting that it would have taken to cover that ground
Speaker 2: to get to Berlin, like the road to Berlin would
Speaker 2: have been three times as long, and god knows what
Speaker 2: the death tolls would have been.
Speaker 1: At the end of it.
Speaker 2: I understand the mindset of look Ockham's raiser this if
Speaker 2: we come into France, Germany's right there, it's a straight shot.
Speaker 2: But I'm with you. I mean, watching the opening scenes
Speaker 2: of saving Private Rhyan will show you what the true
Speaker 2: toll of that operation was. And I even understand the
Speaker 2: concept of you gotta crack a few eggs to make
Speaker 2: an omelet. Bro This was not a cracking of a
Speaker 2: few eggs. This was what was that one guy, the
Speaker 2: Beast of Normandy or the monster of Normandy. One dude
Speaker 2: is attributed to a thousand kills that morning, like before
Speaker 2: noon that day he had dropped one hundred bodies of
Speaker 2: Allied forces.
Speaker 1: That is fucking insane.
Speaker 4: Was he a machine gunner or something?
Speaker 1: He was?
Speaker 5: He was on?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Like the is it the MG forty two Hitler's budsa
Speaker 2: bus saw that that super high rate of fire machine
Speaker 2: gun that he was in the turret. Basically, he was
Speaker 2: one of the first ones to fire a shot that
Speaker 2: morning and he had to be pulled away from the gun.
Speaker 2: When the position was finally compromised, he looked around and
Speaker 2: realized all of the rounds on the ground.
Speaker 1: And if you I forget how they.
Speaker 2: Actually attributed these kills to him by himself, But he
Speaker 2: was brought back to Berlin and was they gave him
Speaker 2: parades that he wrote a book about it, all of
Speaker 2: these things. But I can't even imagine being a nineteen
Speaker 2: year old kid, twenty year old kid who got put
Speaker 2: on this beach, you know, in some turret and you know,
Speaker 2: damn good and well, nobody's about to do a beach
Speaker 2: invasion whatever. You're just sitting there smoking your morning cigarette.
Speaker 2: Next thing you know, you have killed one thousand human
Speaker 2: beings before lunch. I don't even know how you take
Speaker 2: that information in. I mean, he later on said that
Speaker 2: like he was just doing his job and like he
Speaker 2: felt remorse in all of these things, but like it
Speaker 2: was a situation where it was them or him. You know,
Speaker 2: that's how warfare goes. I get it, But like dude,
Speaker 2: that is a kid that is putting up more numbers
Speaker 2: I think arguably more than any other human being has
Speaker 2: ever done in human history.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as possible.
Speaker 3: You know, one other comment about Normandy is it really
Speaker 3: took a lot of air power and firepower and bombardment
Speaker 3: that had to be diverted from other places for about
Speaker 3: six months onto northern France and it displaced about two
Speaker 3: million French civilians in the process. So this is partly
Speaker 3: why France still harbors quite a bit of an anti
Speaker 3: American sentiment to this day. And you know, including the
Speaker 3: Iraq War period, when you know, they were kind of
Speaker 3: a black sheep of NATO that really opposed that. They're
Speaker 3: kind of famous for being kind of anti English and
Speaker 3: anti American, and that's the large reason why a lot
Speaker 3: of northern France was depopulated for those years, not so
Speaker 3: much by the Germans, but by American and British bombardment.
Speaker 3: And that was also bombardment that could have been used
Speaker 3: on German power plants probably knocked him out of the
Speaker 3: war earlier, or could have been used in southeastern Europe,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't.
Speaker 4: And you know Churchill.
Speaker 3: Churchill wanted to use it in these other places, but
Speaker 3: he was over ruled, and George Marshall, I think, was
Speaker 3: also a big pusher of the Normandy idea, so he
Speaker 3: was very powerful, and that's the way it went.
Speaker 2: I don't like how warfighting used to be done with
Speaker 2: these carpet bombing runs, where it was just we're just
Speaker 2: gonna bomb the hell out of everything. Maybe it's civilian,
Speaker 2: maybe it's not. It's just we're just opening the doors
Speaker 2: and just laying waste to whatever is down below us.
Speaker 2: That is insane, but that was also just how war
Speaker 2: was fought back then. The Luftwaffle was doing it all
Speaker 2: over the civilian population of England and we were doing
Speaker 2: it back to them, we were doing it to France.
Speaker 2: There was so many more civilians killed in the war
Speaker 2: than there were actual belligerents, which, unfortunately is how that
Speaker 2: happens in war. I would argue that only in the
Speaker 2: last few decades has that actually shifted in the opposite direction.
Speaker 2: But again, that only depends on which country you're talking about.
Speaker 2: I would say Americans in the Afghan and Iraq situation,
Speaker 2: what's classified as a civilian depends on if they did
Speaker 2: or did not have the weapon in their hand. Before
Speaker 2: they into the building or with it got murky. Same
Speaker 2: thing with the Vietnam situation. But even then there were
Speaker 2: so many examples, as a famous one of the villages
Speaker 2: being burned and it was all women and children, But
Speaker 2: there was other examples of that where it was just
Speaker 2: blatantly just mowing down people for the hell of it.
Speaker 2: And it's just I don't agree with that type of
Speaker 2: war fighting.
Speaker 1: I don't. It's uh.
Speaker 2: I think we have come a long way as far
Speaker 2: as how we do business in that realm. But yeah, again,
Speaker 2: it's not like we can negate our past, and neither
Speaker 2: can these other countries.
Speaker 1: So yeah, history's messy, man.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 2: Although with the Normandy situation, there were supposed to be tanks.
Speaker 2: This dude built whole flotation device as to where the
Speaker 2: tanks would have come on shore, and that would have
Speaker 2: made the whole Normandy beach landing an entirely different conversation.
Speaker 2: But logistical errors happened and this person dropped the ball,
Speaker 2: and this weather condition or whatever. You could pass the
Speaker 2: bus to whatever blame you want, but at that point,
Speaker 2: the element of surprise was gone. Once you realize that
Speaker 2: day that the tanks can't get to shore. But if
Speaker 2: we leave, they now know we're going to do a
Speaker 2: beach invasion. You're kind of forced to do what you
Speaker 2: gotta do. Thankfully, they had enough ment on the boats
Speaker 2: to accomplish the task and gain a foothold, But again,
Speaker 2: like at what cost?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: One thing my dad asked, and I've never gotten a
Speaker 3: great answer to this, was why didn't they just do
Speaker 3: it at night, like eleven PM or something when it's dark.
Speaker 3: That would have given us a bigger advantage.
Speaker 4: But I don't know they did at like six am.
Speaker 8: I guess yeah, because more people would have drowned maybe,
Speaker 8: or the drivers of those boats wouldn't have been able
Speaker 8: to see if they had hit their actual drop zones.
Speaker 1: We I actually looked this up.
Speaker 2: The very first night vision goggles quote unquote was actually
Speaker 2: developed during World War Two. But this thing looked like
Speaker 2: a massive flashlight on the bottom of like a in
Speaker 2: one And the god was it was like basically a
Speaker 2: forty pound attachment that this dude had to use to
Speaker 2: do anything with it. And it was like, I guarantee
Speaker 2: this guy got cancer from using it. Like, you know,
Speaker 2: it was not good. It only had a range of
Speaker 2: like fifty feet or something. Like that now for behind
Speaker 2: enemy line situations where stealth is key, sure, but it
Speaker 2: was still in the very early prototype stages. That would
Speaker 2: have meant that they would have had to use flares,
Speaker 2: They would have had to use uh, you know, something
Speaker 2: to light up the night sky, and I feel like
Speaker 2: that would have made them equally as targeted.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what the.
Speaker 2: What thought process was on that, for sure. It's interesting
Speaker 2: to look at though, for sure. I mean again, it
Speaker 2: was messy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were gonna end like twenty or thirty minutes ago,
Speaker 3: and when then we started talking about Normandy and stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty much out of stuff.
Speaker 1: That's cool. That's cool.
Speaker 2: And let me know what you find out about this
Speaker 2: red book app dude, as we as we wrap this up,
Speaker 2: I would love to hear what you find on it,
Speaker 2: whether that's on the Cult to Conspiracy Live or on
Speaker 2: the next Cajun Night Live that we do.
Speaker 1: Either way, we'd love to hear your two cents on this.
Speaker 2: Uh, Raven Lee, if you have anything you would like
Speaker 2: to add into the conversation, please do.
Speaker 7: I was reading AI while you guys were talking about
Speaker 7: all of this. I was reading about AI stuff. I
Speaker 7: do actually really like, like the normandy and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: Like I was really big into it. My dad was
Speaker 7: big into watching historical stuff and whatnot. But I'll be honest,
Speaker 7: it's not I like specific history time periods, so I
Speaker 7: like more hubbed to certain time periods. But yeah, I
Speaker 7: was reading about AI and about psychedelics and things that
Speaker 7: they're passing and things that they're doing and predicting for
Speaker 7: this year, and that's what I was kind of reading.
Speaker 7: I didn't know what you guys were, where you guys
Speaker 7: were heading with this whole thing, So.
Speaker 1: No, you're cool.
Speaker 2: I will say, as far as the stereotypical middle aged
Speaker 2: man conversation goes, it seems like you pick a time
Speaker 2: period you just dive into. For a lot of dudes,
Speaker 2: it's the Roman Empire, and for other dudes it's World
Speaker 2: War Two. That that seems to be the two big
Speaker 2: ones that dudes just go to all the time.
Speaker 7: So I get one hundred percent. I feel like men
Speaker 7: are very specific in their time periods of when they
Speaker 7: like things, So I mean I like different I like
Speaker 7: different time periods. I'm just like, I'll let them talk,
Speaker 7: you know, I'm listening to you all in your conversation,
Speaker 7: but I was also reading about AI stuff because I
Speaker 7: was curious to see what things are happening. A whole
Speaker 7: bunch of stuff has been pushed out in the last
Speaker 7: few days, So.
Speaker 1: M interesting things you want to bring up.
Speaker 7: Or or it's just about talking about the exciting developments
Speaker 7: around the corner quote unquote the generation AI bubble that
Speaker 7: they're talking about, like they're just trying to push a
Speaker 7: lot of AI interaction this year. That's like seems to
Speaker 7: be the big thing is that there is a lot
Speaker 7: of speculation about AI. They're trying to push the green
Speaker 7: and responsible AI movement because the AI plants are using
Speaker 7: so much energy that now people are pushing back against them. So,
Speaker 7: you know, with them taking over three mile and them
Speaker 7: trying to build the big AI thing here in Louisiana,
Speaker 7: there is a lot of conversation about is it actually
Speaker 7: going to be ethical? Is it going to be sustainable?
Speaker 7: Is it going to be environmental friendly? And there's a
Speaker 7: lot of stuff about AI and machine learning. They're trying
Speaker 7: to figure out how to teach AI to do different things,
Speaker 7: and a lot of ethical debates are being had, like
Speaker 7: China is putting a stop to a lot of stuff.
Speaker 7: That's China and the EU are putting a stop to
Speaker 7: a lot of different programs with AI because they're feeling
Speaker 7: like they're feeling the pressure quote unquote from people. It's
Speaker 7: unethical that they are taking away jobs that they're trying
Speaker 7: to implement AI in many different areas that really it's
Speaker 7: gonna hinder humans more than it's gonna help humans. It's
Speaker 7: just a lot of information about how like what they're
Speaker 7: trying to plan on using this for. But also they're
Speaker 7: like dead set on pushing forward with integrating AI one
Speaker 7: hundred percent into our everyday lives and that these bots
Speaker 7: and these robots they really are pushing to be able
Speaker 7: to be more available and for everyday citizens to start
Speaker 7: using all the time. So that's kind of lots of
Speaker 7: different fronts, lots of different science stuff happened. The quantum
Speaker 7: thing is really still one hundred percent going strong the
Speaker 7: quantum field, and there's a lot of ethics being talked
Speaker 7: about there is like how far is too far? Just
Speaker 7: like with the mere bacteria, like we talked about up
Speaker 7: they're trying to make they're trying to have AI actually
Speaker 7: be able to counteract like different poisons and proteins and
Speaker 7: make their own bacteria, make their own antigens against like
Speaker 7: spitting spitting frogs or this type of dart frog that's
Speaker 7: really poisonous. They're trying to make. The AI is trying
Speaker 7: to combat the poison and make an antigen itself. So
Speaker 7: pretty much what they talked about in the mirror bacteria
Speaker 7: of not hey don't maybe we shouldn't like keep trying
Speaker 7: to play god. They're still trying to play god, but
Speaker 7: finding in a different way to do it.
Speaker 2: So I like that that dude on Instagram when they
Speaker 2: were like, are the humans going to stop production? Like
Speaker 2: they're humans? No, Like that's yep, one hundred percent. And okay,
Speaker 2: hold on. So I remember they were talking about building
Speaker 2: a Tesla battery manufacturing facility in Louisiana. They are also
Speaker 2: trying to build an AI uh thing in Louisiana.
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a pair an AI thing that they're trying
Speaker 7: to build as well. Because you have to remember Gates
Speaker 7: owns the most land here. Yeah, he does in Louisiana,
Speaker 7: and so they there is talks quote unquote of potentially
Speaker 7: putting an AI facility here. So it's there, you know,
Speaker 7: cause three miles being taken over. So that's going to
Speaker 7: be a whole thing. But it's more or less of
Speaker 7: they're really trying to figure out how to win the
Speaker 7: public over with AI, and that's that's the big thing,
Speaker 7: because like chat GBT is like huge they're making you
Speaker 7: know a lot of people love it. Well, they saw
Speaker 7: a rise from thirty two percent and twenty twenty three
Speaker 7: of businesses using some some type of AI to seventy
Speaker 7: two percent in twenty twenty four. So their goal is
Speaker 7: really to integrate AI almost one hundred percent completely in
Speaker 7: the workplace in businesses globally. Now what that looks like
Speaker 7: is that meaning that everyone's losing their jobs? Does that
Speaker 7: mean that they're no longer going to freely think, they're
Speaker 7: not going to learn how to like actually do anything
Speaker 7: for themselves? Like, I'm not sure to what end that
Speaker 7: they're trying to push it for.
Speaker 1: I just want a BUCkies? Can we get a BUCkies
Speaker 1: in Louisiana?
Speaker 2: No, we have to worry about TESLA facilities and AI
Speaker 2: facilities and all this other.
Speaker 1: Wild man, I got one.
Speaker 3: Other fun thing, you know, a thing or two about
Speaker 3: cane sugar. Well I was trying to help my son
Speaker 3: do this home science experiment where we make rat candy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it didn't work because I guess I didn't make
Speaker 3: it concentrated enough. There's like two cups of sugar to
Speaker 3: one cup of water. Anyway, it didn't work, but I
Speaker 3: didn't want to just throw it away, so I diluted
Speaker 3: it up to about a gallon and through some yeast
Speaker 3: in it. And so now we're making some sugarcane ale.
Speaker 3: They go, I'll let you know how it turns out.
Speaker 3: So far, you know it's working. It's just the yeast's bubbling.
Speaker 3: I'll let you know how it works out.
Speaker 1: Do you use regular white sugar? Do you use like
Speaker 1: raw sugar?
Speaker 3: It was cane sugar. It was a little tiny bit brown,
Speaker 3: somewhere between brown sugar and white sugar.
Speaker 4: Okay, crystals.
Speaker 2: I will be very curious how that comes out. Also
Speaker 2: very interested on the taste. I'm wondering that's gonna have
Speaker 2: more of a rum flavor, if it's gonna have more
Speaker 2: of like an agricole flavor, which God, that is some
Speaker 2: of the harshest liquor I've ever experienced.
Speaker 1: In my life. But yeah, definitely letting let me know
Speaker 1: what that's about for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll do.
Speaker 1: And Raven, the more you.
Speaker 2: Find out about these AI facilities, they are being built,
Speaker 2: especially with the way this technology is advancing in this country,
Speaker 2: and like you said, they're already trying to take over
Speaker 2: nuclear power facilities to power all of it. Bill Gates,
Speaker 2: being the number one owner of land in this state,
Speaker 2: I am also very curious to see how this shakes out,
Speaker 2: So keep us in the loop on that. And with that,
Speaker 2: I think we are going to wrap up this Cajun
Speaker 2: Night Live. I want to thank everybody for coming out
Speaker 2: tonight and for anybody listening to this on the Cult
Speaker 2: of Conspiracy the following day.
Speaker 1: Listen.
Speaker 2: If you would like to join in this conversation, if
Speaker 2: you would like to have these types of conversations with
Speaker 2: all of us, please join in.
Speaker 1: Go to the Cajun Night on Patreon.
Speaker 2: Give me all the subscribes and the follows and all
Speaker 2: the things and the stuff, and I cannot wait to
Speaker 2: have this conversation go even deeper next Wednesday Night. With
Speaker 2: that being said, thank y'all for coming and God bless
Speaker 2: we'll see yall next week.