WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.200 Today's Zero Hedge Debate sponsored by J. M. Bullion. Today 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:08.119 we have Scott Horton versus my Javadan Fhar. He is 3 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:11.800 an Israeli scholar professor, and we will be debating the 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:16.480 topic of how the US should handle the situation with Iran. 5 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:20.000 We're going to be doing kind of a presidential style 6 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.679 debate with myself, Clint Russell, the host of Liberty Lockdown, 7 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:26.719 former vice presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party, and Amy Kozak, 8 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.960 who will be handling the I'm too biased basically, so 9 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.159 go ahead and introduce yourself. 10 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:32.399 Amy. 11 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:35.000 Thank you, Clint. It's good to be here, and I 12 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:38.200 will say I appreciate libertarian spaces because we tend to 13 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.159 put ideas and arguments front and center, not a character 14 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.560 at hominem or any of that kind of stuff. So 15 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.960 looking forward to a civil discussion, and yes, I'm here 16 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:51.560 to provide the co moderating roles as a bit of 17 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.039 a balance to possibly, you know, Clint's position and echoing 18 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:01.359 doctor jabadan Far's position on Iran and Israel and Palestin. 19 00:01:01.399 --> 00:01:05.159 I am a comedian and commentator alean pro Israel. So 20 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.959 it's just good to be here and looking forward to 21 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:07.959 a balanced discussion. 22 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:12.560 Mister Horton, if you'd like to introduce yourself to the audience. 23 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:14.480 Sure. 24 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.560 I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, the host of 25 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:21.200 the Scott Wharton Show, and editorial director of antiwar dot Com. 26 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:23.560 And I wrote the books Enough Already, Time in the 27 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.959 War on Terrorism and provoked how Washington started the New 28 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:29.439 Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. 29 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.400 And I'm going to call you my ear just for ease, 30 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:35.680 if you could introduce yourself to the audience as well. 31 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:43.400 Hi, my name is doctor Mejavedanfhar, Iranian Israeli researcher and 32 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:50.879 writer and lecturer. I've been teaching various contemporary Iranian history 33 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.719 and politics courses for the last twelve years at Reichman University, 34 00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.640 and I've also been researching Iran Israel relationship. It's both 35 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.920 before and after the seventy nine revolution. 36 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.879 Well interesting, I'm going to start with the strategic interests here. 37 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:12.879 It's a point of contention amongst libertarian audience in the 38 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.560 non inventionist camp as well as many of the America 39 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.000 First or MAGA voters. What are the core US national 40 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.080 interests at stake in its policy towards Iran, and how 41 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.360 should these guide the choice between interventionists and non interventionist approaches. 42 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:29.759 We'll start with mister Horton's. 43 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:37.039 Well, I mean, America has really, you know, oil interests 44 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.360 in the Middle East, but it really doesn't matter who's 45 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:41.560 in charge of which regime, the oil will always be 46 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:46.479 for sale. So you know, our entire strategic position as 47 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.360 the regional hedgeman is entirely unnecessary, and it's mostly because 48 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.439 of Israel. So you know, America is Israel's greatest ally, 49 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:56.360 but they're not ours. They don't do anything for us 50 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.560 at all, and even when we wage wars for them, 51 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.919 they don't even help. He can't even name something that 52 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:04.360 Israel even did for the United States at all over 53 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.960 there in the last twenty years, other than helping Obama 54 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.280 back Alcada in Syria. 55 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.360 But that was Obama helping them. 56 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.080 Back al Qada in Syria because they hate the Ala 57 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:17.000 Whites for their alliance with the Sheites in Iran, which 58 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.240 is not America's interests at all. America could have made 59 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:25.599 peace with Iran decades ago, in fact, and the scholar 60 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:27.639 here knows far more about this than me. But I'm 61 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.120 sure he'll agree. Israel stayed friends with Iran after the 62 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.159 revolution is seventy nine and through the nineteen eighties. That's 63 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.599 why when Ronald Reagan, just a couple of years after 64 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:41.560 the Beyroot attack, when he switched sides temporarily in the 65 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.919 Iran Iraq War and armed Iran during the Iran Contra. 66 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:46.840 Scandal, he used the Israelis as the cutout. 67 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:49.080 You guys, give them your missiles and we'll give you 68 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.439 some more in order to get those missiles to Tehran. 69 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.719 So we couldn't normalize relations back during the Reagan years, 70 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.280 we were already getting along with them enough to sell 71 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.520 them missiles. In Knight ninety three, when Bill Clinton came 72 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.560 into power, part of his government's idea was we should 73 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:09.560 go ahead and normalize relations with Iraq and with Iran. 74 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.319 And it's a big new Brazinski, who had been the 75 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.399 National Security Advisor during the Revolution of seventy nine and 76 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:19.319 had egg all over his face for his humiliation there, 77 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.360 but was a leading grand strategist of American foreign policy 78 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.800 by ninety three. He said we should build a pipeline 79 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.360 from the Caspian Basin across Iran that way to cut 80 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.000 them in, make some money, but also find a way 81 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:36.279 to begin warming up relations with them. And you know 82 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.040 that was just a couple of years after the end 83 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:39.800 of the Cold War with the Soviet Union, and the 84 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:42.360 idea was, we can't get along with everybody. The new 85 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.319 president Rosson Johnny was trying to suck up to the West. 86 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:47.959 They even armed al Cada in Bosnia as a favorite 87 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.959 of Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety four or nineteen ninety five, 88 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:53.160 because they were trying to suck up to the United States. 89 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.519 In fact, Alexander Haig, Ronald Reagan's secretary of State, also 90 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:59.199 wanted to build a oil pipeline across Iran as a 91 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.720 way to open up relations with them. And guess what 92 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:07.519 Clint Israel said, No, it was Yitzak Rabin's government which 93 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.360 was reversing their strategy of the periphery and said that 94 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:13.720 now they wanted to deal with the Arabs and demonize Iran, 95 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:20.720 who insisted that Bill Clinton, instead of trying to warm 96 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.040 up relations with Iraq and Iran, that he keep the 97 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:26.680 bases in Saudi Arabia to wage what was called the 98 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:31.000 dual containment policy against both. And that policy was invented 99 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:35.720 in Israel and it was Jitsak Shamir's aid Martin Indick, 100 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.560 who announced the policy, convinced Clinton to do it, and 101 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.240 announced the policy in a speech at the Washington Institute 102 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.879 for nii's Policy, which is a spinoff of APEC. So 103 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.279 the fact of the matter is that without Israel's intervention, 104 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:52.600 America could have warmed up relations with the Ayahtolas regime 105 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:54.800 back in nineteen ninety three. 106 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:56.079 We didn't have to. 107 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.800 Have this last thirty years of contention and all these 108 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.560 rats and risk of war and all this stuff. But 109 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:07.480 it's the Israeli burr in America, Sattle, that is, you know, 110 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:10.800 preventing our government from pursuing a Middle East policy that 111 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.480 is actually in the interests of the American people instead 112 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.240 of the interests of Israel. 113 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.160 Okay, can I answer that question now? 114 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:18.399 Yeah? 115 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.439 Absolutely, my area. I'd love for you to either answer 116 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.720 my question or to respond to Scott's claims. 117 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:30.160 Respond to what Scott said, the idea that the Unite 118 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.759 that I'm very surprised by some of the imperialistic talk 119 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:38.000 from the United States by people who claim to be 120 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:43.439 anti imperialists. I think it is very imperialist to say 121 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:51.279 that Iran has no agency, that the Islamic Republic of Iran. Well, 122 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.439 what you're saying is that only Israel has agency here, 123 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:57.920 not the Islamic Republic of Iran. 124 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:04.680 I did say that, hold on, hold on, I just 125 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.480 just to reset for a second, just so we can 126 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:09.560 avoid interruptions. From my understanding, Scott, of what you were saying, 127 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.680 the suggestion and implication is that America's interest in the 128 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:17.560 region are pretty much dictated by Israel throughout this whole process, 129 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.240 and that all the actions that have been taken and 130 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.360 all the posturing of Iran at we treat them as 131 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.759 a rational actor in this and that if not for 132 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.480 Israel's interest, America takes no action at all, and it's 133 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:30.240 all at the behest of Israel. So I had Actually 134 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.759 that's if I'm mistaking what your suggestion, what you're suggesting 135 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.079 in your remarks, I'd like to hear doctor dravidam First's 136 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:41.240 response to that. If that's the acasion, not much closer. 137 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.079 That's much closer to what I said was that Bill 138 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:48.000 Clinton's agency had to take a back seat to Israel's interest. 139 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.120 I didn't really discuss what was going on in Tehran 140 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:53.680 at all during that other than that they were trying 141 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:56.160 to suck up to the US, and America was pushing 142 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:56.639 them away. 143 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.199 But I should deny that they had agency? 144 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.319 What an absolute Okay, well, just what you say about 145 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.600 any human over the age of eighteen, Just. 146 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:08.720 To reframe that, just to help, just to help translate 147 00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:11.600 that for a minute. So doctor Jevenevor, can you address 148 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:15.360 the claim that essentially all of the actions taken by 149 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:17.560 US in this region have to do much more at 150 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.360 the behest of Israel, and that is that that is 151 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:21.920 dictating American policy. 152 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:27.040 I think to say that the United States takes all 153 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.240 its decisions in the Middle East because of Israel, it's 154 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:37.440 not only inaccurate, it's also insulting to the to other 155 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.720 you know, theories of international relations where agency is given 156 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:44.879 to all sides. I'm not here to tell you that 157 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:49.000 Israel has never made mistakes. Of course, we haven't made mistakes. 158 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.720 Everybody makes mistakes. But to say that the state of 159 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:57.399 Israel is in charge of United States policy towards Iran 160 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:02.559 is completely taking away any agency that the Islamic Republic 161 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:07.039 of Iran has had in its relations with the United States. 162 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:12.399 Since the beginning of the revolution, Israel was trying to 163 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.399 set up relations between Iran and the United States because 164 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.759 it viewed Iraq as a threat. Now, if you want 165 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:24.360 to talk about that, Iraq can tell you know. Within 166 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.720 October seventy ninety, CIA was providing information to the Iranians 167 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.120 regarding Iraqi plans to invade Iraq. The United States was 168 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.240 trying to improve relations with the Islamic Republic. It was 169 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:40.799 the Islamach Republic who took US hostages for four hundred 170 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:44.039 and forty four days. It was the Islamic Republic that 171 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:48.840 killed two hundred and forty Marines in October eighty three 172 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.519 and then blew up the USM Messimba Route Scott. None 173 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.159 of these were because of Israel. Now, if you want 174 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.559 to talk about nineteen ninety three. In nineteen ninety three, 175 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:04.360 let's remember the President of the United States, Bill Clinton. 176 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:10.320 His biggest foreign policy issue, His biggest foreign policy ambition 177 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.960 was peace between Israelis and Palestinians, which I think you 178 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.679 and I both want it, if I'm not mistaken. What 179 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.159 happened was the reason why he came up with the 180 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.759 dual containment is that soon after the Madrid Peace stocks 181 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:29.240 around the Madrid peace talks in nineteen ninety one, President Rafsan, 182 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.840 Johnny said that the Israelis and the iran and the 183 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.879 Palestinians can reach whatever they want. We will live with it. 184 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.919 And he said that, of course, but we also have 185 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.960 to take into consideration, and it's crucial that we do. 186 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.399 And it's key that at that time the person who 187 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.879 said Iran's foreign policy was not the president, he was 188 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:53.000 the supreme leader. The supreme leader has much more power 189 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:57.320 when it comes to the foreign policy. And around the 190 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:01.600 same time as Madrid, when your President Evan George Bush 191 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.600 of Blessed Memory tried to bring peace between us and 192 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:07.879 the Palestinians, the Iranians, around the same time, I tol 193 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.679 A harm and A because of domestic issues also and 194 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.960 also because of his anti American and anti Israeli ideology, 195 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:19.639 arranged the conference, invited the heads of Palestinian Islamiji had 196 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.120 Hamas Hizballah, and they declared that anybody who wants to 197 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:27.519 make peace with Israel is an enemy of the Islamic 198 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.879 Republic and we are going to help anybody who wants 199 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.480 to torpedo the peace talks. And since then we saw 200 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:38.840 Hamas and Islamic you had became one of the bloodiest 201 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:43.519 and deadliest enemies of the peace talks, and that on 202 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.879 the mind US President Clinton, especially his plans to bring 203 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:53.120 peace into this region. Hence why we had the dual containment. 204 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:59.120 Well, I haven't read Treaty Parsi's book Treacherous Alliance in 205 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.240 a few years, have to go back to the exact 206 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.360 timeline and details there. But as he explains, it was 207 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.000 Yitzakrabin who did want to deal with the Palestinians. He 208 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.240 didn't want to give them a real state, but something 209 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:12.559 like a pseudo type state and deal with them. 210 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:14.799 And as a way of dealing with the. 211 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.559 Other Arab states, so they turned the strategy of the 212 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.919 periphery on its head, where they used to prioritize being 213 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:26.000 friends with Iran, for example, to divide Iraq's attention and 214 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.840 the other Sunni Arab states away from themselves. And now 215 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.919 they would try to negotiate with the Arabs and turn 216 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.639 on the Iranians and demonize the Iranians. And as Parsi 217 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.240 shows in his book, it's after that that Iran began 218 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:48.919 to back Hamas. There's no reason in the world why 219 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:53.360 that shouldn't should necessitate America keeping bases in Saudi Arabia. 220 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:58.279 To bomb and blockade Iraq and balance and pressure against Iran. 221 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.200 And it was that policy more than any other, that 222 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:05.240 turned America and Saudi and Britain's Al Qaeda terrorist mercenaries 223 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.039 against the United States. It was when after Rabine was 224 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:14.080 assassinated and his successor, his successor, Shimon Perez, invaded Lebanon. 225 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.919 And it was actually enough Tolly Bennett who called in 226 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.600 the artillery strike on a un shelter and killed one 227 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:23.440 hundred and six women and children at the Kana massacre 228 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.720 in nineteen ninety six, and bin Laden ranted all about 229 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.840 that on first page of his declaration of war against 230 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.840 the United States in nineteen ninety six. And Mohammad Alta 231 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.879 and his buddy Ramsey bin alsheb when they read that 232 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:40.720 they were Egyptian engineering students studying in Hamburg, Germany, and 233 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:44.559 when they read ben Laden's rant about the Kana massacre, 234 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.200 these Egyptians signed up to volunteer for a Saudi to 235 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:51.799 attack America to get revenge for what Israel was doing 236 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:55.159 in Lebanon and what Israel was doing in Palestine and 237 00:13:55.480 --> 00:14:01.519 the Israeli centric policy of keeping American forces in Saudi Arabia. 238 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:03.840 Now you guys, will and the audience will note that 239 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.200 I never blamed Israel for the nineteen seventy nine revolution, 240 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.080 So that was kind of a funny thing to bring 241 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.679 up to refute that, of course I never said. And 242 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.759 in fact, although I didn't address this before, I certainly 243 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:17.039 didn't mean to exclude that there are other humans in 244 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.639 the world doing things. For example, there was a whiskey 245 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:25.039 smuggling ring that Kuwaiti intelligence built up into a fake 246 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:30.000 assassination plot against h. W. Bush and Seymour Hirsch debunked 247 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:31.919 this in the New Yorker magazine. 248 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.279 By the end of the year, case not closed. 249 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.720 It turned out that the Iraqi plot, the Saddam Hussein 250 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.399 plot to murder h. W. Bush with a truck bomb 251 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.480 in Kuwait, was completely fake. And guess what. The guy 252 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:45.879 that made it up was the same guy whose daughter 253 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.399 claimed that she saw the Iraqi soldiers throwing the babies 254 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:51.840 out of the incubators in order to lie us into 255 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.840 Iraq War one two years later. Her father is the 256 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.440 one who spun up the truck bomb assassination plot against 257 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.080 Huba Bush. And it was after that that Bill Clinton 258 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.360 gave in to Martin and Dick and Yitzak Rabin and 259 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:11.360 adopted their policy of dual containment. So I'm not saying 260 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.799 for a moment that Israel had anything to do with 261 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:15.559 the whiskey smuggling ring or the. 262 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.080 Kuwaiti plot to frame up this. 263 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:21.399 Fake scheme of this fake assassination attempt against h. W. 264 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:21.919 Bush. 265 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.840 I never said that there are all kinds of things 266 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.840 in motion. But it was Martin Indick's policy, and he 267 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.519 had been the Yitsak Shamir's guy, and he was the 268 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.240 one who coined the whole thing. And anyone should read 269 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.200 it's the excellent book Treacherous Alliance by Treta Parsi, where 270 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.559 he shows what's going on behind the scenes and all of. 271 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:42.559 This absolutely, Doctor javidan Far, But I would also like 272 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.679 to I would like to make sure that you answered 273 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:47.519 my question specifically, because I'm trying to be convinced of 274 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:53.440 your position. Why is Iran or intervention in Iran in 275 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.360 the national interest of the American people? 276 00:15:55.399 --> 00:16:01.120 Specifically, I'll answer one of the marks made by Scott, 277 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:05.879 and then i will answer your question. First and foremost, 278 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:14.639 Treatah Parsy in his book takes a huge acrobatic leap 279 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.240 over the actions of the Islamic Republic, and he focuses 280 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.960 on Israel, and it comes up with a theory that 281 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.840 if you test it, it doesn't really stand. He's saying 282 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:30.559 that Israel after the Cold War was looking for a 283 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.080 new enemy. It was Israel that turned Iran into its enemy, 284 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.559 because it was Israel that turned the periphery doctrine on 285 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:44.879 its head. That is factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest. Israel 286 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.399 actually supported Iran in the Iran Iraq War with the 287 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.960 hope of improving relations with them. And what Treatah Partsy 288 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.960 doesn't say is that the Islamic Republic of Iran, instead 289 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.639 of using that opportunity to improve relations with Israel and 290 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:04.480 the US, supported Palestinian Islami Chihad, who started its terror 291 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:09.200 attacks against Israelis in the late eighties. What Treata Parsi 292 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.279 doesn't say is that the Islamic republics supported Hamas who 293 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:18.039 started his terror activities in the nineteen nineties early nineteen nineties. 294 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:23.440 I think that's grotesquely dishonest to say that Israel was 295 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.880 looking for an enemy when we know that the Islamic 296 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:31.680 Republic tried to blatantly undermine them. Madrid Peace talks by 297 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:35.440 supporting groups that called for the elimination of the Israeli 298 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:40.160 of Israeli of this country, and has supported the killing 299 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:44.519 and murdering of innocent Israelis in cafes and restaurants to 300 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.240 treat a party. These things don't matter in his argument. 301 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.319 It's not true. It is a damn lie. 302 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.920 No, you can read the book and he does not 303 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.200 ignore Iranian support for Hamas at all. 304 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:59.440 In the great time, Scott, let me speak, Please, I 305 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.920 tried to you know, you spoke. Let's let's try to 306 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.039 keep this clear. 307 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.240 For the for the for what you're saying about my 308 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.279 friend is incorrect. 309 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.200 What I'm saying about your friend is correct because his arguments, 310 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.279 if we put the facts that I gave you into 311 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.839 his arguments that says it was Israel that turned Iran 312 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.519 into an enemy. That argument doesn't stand. How can Israel 313 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:26.680 turn Iran into the enemy when Israel helped Iran in 314 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.839 the Iran Iraq War and it was the Islamic Republic 315 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.160 of Iran that declared war proxy war on the state 316 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:33.799 of Israel. 317 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.839 Well, you guys can quibble about the timeline and who 318 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.200 turned on who first if you want, And. 319 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:41.640 That's very important. 320 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.079 It is, but you're you, you just outright stated that 321 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.640 he doesn't mention he completely ignores Iran's support for Hamas. 322 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.279 I already said in this interview earlier, in this debate 323 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.359 earlier that, as he explains, the Iranians did not begin 324 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:02.160 backing Hamas until after the the Rabine doctrine and had 325 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:07.160 changed and they were excluded from Madrid and Rabine had officially, 326 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.559 you know, inaugurated the reversal of the strategy. 327 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.960 Of correct he does not ignore Amos. 328 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.000 Terrorism, and he doesn't ignore Iranian support for it. 329 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:17.359 That's all in there. 330 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.240 And he also does quote Israeli strategists. And this is 331 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:22.920 what's so great about that book is there's no news 332 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.319 cycle bs in it. It's all quotes from the highest 333 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.400 level strategists in America, Israel, and Iran. And he has 334 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:34.519 Israeli strategist saying, we needed new glue for the alliance 335 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.400 with the United States after the fall of Soviet Union. 336 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.119 Why did they need us? 337 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:43.599 And what we decided on was Islamic fundamentalism. 338 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:48.759 And particularly we chose Islamic fundamentalism. That's a new. 339 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:49.880 Glue for the alliance. 340 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:53.880 The reason why America needed to support Israel was to 341 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.119 hold back the Islamic horde and all of that you 342 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.400 know narrative that they are America's you know, easter most 343 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:05.079 fort or the West's easternmost fort in the Middle East 344 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.039 holding back the tide, and that's why we have to 345 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:08.960 prop them up. 346 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.960 So Islami terrorists were not killing American citizens and it's 347 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.559 because of I don't understand, to be honest with you, 348 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:15.960 the idea, that's. 349 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:20.480 Because Islamic fundamentalism, I said. 350 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:25.240 They decided that they would use Islamic fundamentalism as the 351 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.359 excuse for the alliance, as new glue for the alliance 352 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:30.640 between their country and ours. 353 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:31.400 That's what they said. 354 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.640 Now is the time to take advantage of the power 355 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.359 of gold and silver to grow your wealth. Whether you're 356 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.480 an experienced investor or new to the game, these precious 357 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.519 metals have a long history of being a safe haven 358 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:45.599 for your savings, but they also offer growth potential, making 359 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.319 them a wise investment choice. 360 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.799 So where does the average. 361 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.160 Investor go to buy gold and silver? 362 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:51.160 That's easy. 363 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.480 JM Bullion Jambullion is one of the most popular and 364 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.960 most trusted precious metals retailers in the nation. We offer 365 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.799 a huge selection of gold, silver, platus them and palladium 366 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.920 products that can be delivered to your door in safe, discrete, 367 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.039 fully insured packaging, from one gram of gold to an 368 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.640 entire mint box of silver. JM Bullion offers precious metals 369 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.200 to suit every financial goal and budget, no matter your budget. 370 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.119 Now is the time to start investing in precious metals 371 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.799 and start protecting yourself and your savings against these volatile markets. 372 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.559 Visit jambullion dot com today to take a look at 373 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.359 our wide variety of precious metals rounds, coins, and bars 374 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.119 and find out how you can turn your savings into gold. 375 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:33.599 So, Scott, I just want to I just want to 376 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.480 chime in here just for a second because before it's 377 00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:36.839 arts to get interrupting, and I do want to come 378 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:39.960 back to Clint's fundamental question, which is sort of what's 379 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:44.319 centered around this is America's interest and in Iran at all? 380 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.960 Because I think this is this is fundamental. Scott. You 381 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:51.000 brought up the timeline issue and in terms of confusing 382 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.519 actors and reactors, actions and reactions, this is where the 383 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.759 fundamental disagreement is. So can you just talk about because 384 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:00.279 it sounds like Scott, you're making this case that's centered 385 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:04.839 around geopolitics and rational actors responding to conditions. And I 386 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.799 want to ask this question about to the extent of 387 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.039 whether this is ideologically driven, whether Islamic fundamentalism is a 388 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.279 reality that precedes the actions of the West versus a 389 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:15.720 response to actions of the West. 390 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:22.559 So, I mean, as we've already agreed, Israel got along 391 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.559 just fine with the mean old Ayatola Komane. 392 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:26.519 Throughout his reign. 393 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.160 He turned against Scott. He murdered our citizens. We didn't 394 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.640 get along with him. We tried to help him in 395 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:36.119 the war, but he killed our citizens. 396 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:40.599 That's ridicuous that Israel backed Iran in the Iran Iraq war, which. 397 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:46.680 Afterwards they chilled our citizens. Afterwards, they killed our citizens. Afterwards, 398 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:48.839 it was two years. Hang on, please let me speak. 399 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.079 Two years after that. Three years after that war, they 400 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.839 set up a conference in which they declared proxy war 401 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.440