WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.720 --> 00:00:12.880 Special Operations, Cobert Ops Spionage. The Team House with your 2 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.079 hosts Jack Murphy and David Park. 3 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:24.760 Hey, everyone, welcome to episode two hundred and twenty three 4 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:26.920 of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. 5 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:30.600 Our guest on tonight's show is Andy Stump. Andy served 6 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:33.079 in the Sealed Teams as a NCO and then as 7 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:35.320 an officer, and he's also the host of the Queered 8 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:39.159 Hot podcast that I'm sure everyone who watches this show 9 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:42.200 is familiar with Andy and his work. So Andy, thank 10 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.759 you very much for joining us tonight. Yeah, thank you 11 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:47.640 for having me. Are we gonna do all that stuff 12 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:49.200 that came in the intro, like very. 13 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:51.640 Special Operations espionage or are we going to do that 14 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:53.479 stuff because that sounds awesome. 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.799 We're going to talk about it, all right. 16 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.719 We're wringing it here tonight. Guys, no script, so be prepared. 17 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:02.399 We might do a little improv later. 18 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:07.359 We don't even know perfect cool man, So I'm going 19 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.280 to start from the top, like we do with pretty 20 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.599 much all of our guests. I want to ask you 21 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:13.640 a little bit about your origin story about you know, 22 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:16.680 what your upbringing was, like, how you grew up and 23 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.640 sort of how that took you, propelled you towards the Navy. 24 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.560 Yeah, I mean, there was nothing special about it. I 25 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.719 grew up dead, center of the road, middle class in 26 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.599 a beach town in what they consider to be northern California. 27 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:35.079 But when I look at the map, it's still like 28 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:38.280 right in the center, Santa Cruz, just on the north 29 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:44.400 end of the Monterey Bay. Aggressively average athlete, below average student. 30 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.439 I think my final GPA in high school was about 31 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:48.760 a one point eight, and I was really reaching for 32 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.120 the rim on that one. And you know, I come 33 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:55.599 from a military family, but I know for a fact 34 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:57.400 that it was not the path that either of my 35 00:01:57.439 --> 00:01:59.319 parents were looking for. So my mom's side of the house, 36 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:06.840 my grandmother actually started as a Navy nurse and was 37 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:10.680 discharged due to post traumatic stress of caring for people 38 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.400 who were coming off of the front lines Vietnam. Lied 39 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:17.280 about it and joined the army to become a nurse again. Wow, 40 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.639 I'm just savage in so many different ways, and met 41 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.599 her husband at the time, who was a supply officer, 42 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.120 so Army. On my mom's side of the house, my 43 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.520 dad's side of the house was Navy. His dad and 44 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:32.159 his dad's brother like ninety nine. Yeah, those two were 45 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:33.639 both in the Navy, and then my father was in 46 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:36.560 the navy. He was actually on the first squadron of 47 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:41.159 Jacuzi propelled patrol boats in Vietnam, the Mark ones, which 48 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.639 fast forward, you know, decades later. I used to ride 49 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.439 around with the Mark five's, so kind of the same pool, 50 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.000 different water in it, for sure, not a great experience 51 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.639 in Vietnam, like a lot of people had, and he 52 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:57.280 brought a lot of that home with him. So, you know, 53 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:02.280 the drinking culture on the army lived very vicariously, let's 54 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.560 just say, on my mom's side of the house and 55 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.919 on my dad's side of the house. It was not 56 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.280 necessarily drinking, but just men who didn't want to talk 57 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.400 about their feelings because men aren't allowed to have feelings, 58 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.919 they just go build things with their bare hands or 59 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:19.919 tear them down. Neither of those are, I've come to 60 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.759 find out, and probably knew before even experimenting with both 61 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.240 are a very good choice when it comes to dealing 62 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:28.560 with any issues you may have. But I say all 63 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.719 that to say that, you know, I don't know if 64 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:34.280 the military left a good taste on either side of 65 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.080 my mom. You know, my mom or my dad, my mom. 66 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.360 I experienced it more from an upbringing perspective, kind of 67 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:41.520 bouncing around being an army brat, my dad through a 68 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:45.360 first hand experience in Vietnam. And you know, then I 69 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.080 come home when I'm seventeen years old and I have 70 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:50.199 a Navy recruiter with me asking them to sign permission 71 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.199 for me to join the Delaight entry program, which is 72 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.599 idiotic thinking back about it. All I did was make 73 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:57.840 the recruiters job easier that month because I still had 74 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.639 to graduate high school and turn eighteen. Anyway, I don't 75 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.319 even still don't to day, don't know why that program exists, 76 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:05.199 but that's the path that I took. And you know, 77 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:07.879 to their credit, they never tried to talk me out 78 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:11.199 of it, not a single hey, you shouldn't do this, 79 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:14.759 This isn't what we would want for you. A lot 80 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:18.079 of questions about, you know why, like why why am 81 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:20.240 I interested in this? What do I necessarily want to 82 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.360 get out of it? What do I think it's going 83 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.839 to be, But never an attempt to try to talk 84 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:27.480 me out of it, which I deeply appreciate to this day, 85 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:29.399 and it's something that I've tried to pay forward with 86 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.040 my own kids as well, and then from there you 87 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:34.399 know that the path into the seal community is unfortunately 88 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.199 far to public, as is everything with the seal community. 89 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.480 I'm sure there's a several TV shows and probably an 90 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:42.959 IMAX movie about enlisting in the Navy. 91 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.480 Could and could? I just I just want to stop 92 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.560 you for one second, just ask what were the answers 93 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.199 to those questions for you personally as a seventeen year 94 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:53.000 old young man, as far as like why what you 95 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.680 were hoping to get out of it? Where did that 96 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:56.160 come from? 97 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.120 I don't know, and I still don't have a good answer. 98 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.279 I heard my dad was not a seal. He worked 99 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.639 with seals occasionally in the Maykong Delta. Obviously, given the 100 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:08.199 platform that he was on, it would be used for 101 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.160 insertion and an extraction. So I heard the term from 102 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.680 him first, but not like hey, you should go check 103 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.319 this out. But it intrigued me, and they we're talking like, 104 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:20.079 let's see here. When I first heard that term, we 105 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.560 were in the late eighties, And I say that to 106 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.439 highlight that the Internet wasn't exactly as you know what 107 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:27.160 it is right now. I didn't have a smartphone in 108 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.120 my pocket that could access unfettered information. So I went 109 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.040 to the library, and most of the information that I 110 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.600 could find was from Vietnam. You know, there's a little 111 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.040 bit about World War Two, but the UDT, the predecessors 112 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.680 to the seal teams, you know, they weren't they weren't 113 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.839 doing that much. They were for amphibious reconnaissance and basically 114 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.920 making sure that you know, the catastrophes that had occurred 115 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:50.160 in some of the beach landings, you know, where the 116 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.639 landing craft would hit a coral reef and drop the 117 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:54.879 ramp and people would run off of it non boyant 118 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.959 gear that that didn't happen again. So not a whole lot, 119 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.800 but everything that I could find was just fascinating to me. 120 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:06.199 It was like this magnetizing poll. And I think at eleven, 121 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:08.319 I certainly didn't have an answer that question, like, I 122 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.959 don't know, it sounds cool, but that's also also part 123 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.199 of the answer. Now when I'm forty five. It did 124 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.600 sound cool, and it was cool, but it sounded hard, 125 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.319 and it sounded like not everybody could do it, and 126 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.079 it sounded like they got to do really cool shit. 127 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:27.560 And at eleven, that sounded awesome to me. I had 128 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:29.800 no you know, I mean, like, you know, looking glass forward, 129 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.759 I didn't have any idea about nine to eleven or 130 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:35.240 what the occupation would actually become. Most accurate movie at 131 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.120 the time was Navy Seal starring Charlie Sheen, which I 132 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.680 thought was I considered to be a documentary, much like 133 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.720 I thought the Rogue Warrior series should have been in 134 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.560 the nonfiction section as opposed to the fiction. Both of 135 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.360 them is galactically wrong, but it just it hooked me, 136 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.240 and it was really weird growing up for people to 137 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.199 hear me be able to like, you know that it's 138 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.120 actually a terrible question. I think we asked young men 139 00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:59.319 and women like, oh, what do you want to do 140 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:01.079 with your life? Who the fuck knows what you want 141 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:02.639 to do with your life at fourteen years old? 142 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:03.000 Right? 143 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:05.519 But I had an answer for that, and not many 144 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:08.279 people have that answer. And then I got into the 145 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.240 community and I was surrounded by people who had the 146 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:15.240 same feeling and lack of ability to describe that desire 147 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.319 and why they wanted to do it and what they 148 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:18.720 wanted to get out of it. So it became a 149 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:22.560 really uncommon narrative to the most common narrative that anybody had. 150 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:24.959 When I served with which is like a total non 151 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.600 answer to your question. But I still, even later with 152 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:30.600 a better vocabulary, have a hard time explaining or putting 153 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.439 a pin in like the exactly why it just it 154 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:35.199 was what it was. 155 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:39.720 Yeah, I think that's pretty common though. You know, no 156 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.680 matter what you know, special operations unit or what sort 157 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.160 of military element, people think about a lot of them. 158 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:49.879 You know, a lot of people have this idea early on, 159 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.120 and it could be the A team or the Navy 160 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.279 Seals or g I Joe. It can be any of 161 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.279 these things that make you think that to make you 162 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:03.000 sort of separate that thing out and go that sounds hard, 163 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.439 it sounds fun, it sounds challenging. 164 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:07.720 Yeah, you know. 165 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:09.720 I mean there's a reason why the Navy back top 166 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:14.720 gun multiple times. Yeah, shockingly, Fighter pilot recruitment went through 167 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:16.160 the roof right right. 168 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.240 And and for those who don't make it in the program, well, 169 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.680 the Navy has a whole bunch of officers to choose from. 170 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:23.000 You know, it's the same way. 171 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:25.240 And there's that pesky contract you signed. Wow, you wanted 172 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:27.360 to fly jets and you failed. That's fine, we'll find 173 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:28.920 a job for you. Oh you didn't want to be 174 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:30.040 a surface warfare officer. 175 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.919 Yeah, it's too bad, right right, So Andy, I won't 176 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:35.720 ask you if your buds class was hard or not. 177 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:40.320 I promise I won't go there. But I mean, it's 178 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.039 like the hardest, but they're all the same, No, I know. 179 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.919 I'm just not going to ask you to recount. You know, 180 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:45.720 did you have to carry a raft over your head? 181 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:48.759 We know, but I will just going to carry the boats. 182 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:52.039 I will ask you, you know, did you get the 183 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.279 challenge that you were looking for as as you started 184 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.200 to go through that process and earn your trida? Yeah? 185 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.320 I mean the curriculum. I didn't understand the curriculum when 186 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.639 I went through as a student. It made so much 187 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.120 more sense to me when I went back as an 188 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.159 instructor a decade later in my career. But the cool 189 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.279 thing about the curriculum is it's been largely the same 190 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.799 since the forties and it just works. You know, there's 191 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.879 something in there for everybody. And I think, looking back 192 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.240 on it, having gone through and then applying it to others, 193 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.399 it's just trying to figure out what it is. 194 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.080 That bugs you. 195 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.000 You know, is it cold water? Is it sleep deprivation, 196 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.120 is it exhaustion? Is it being hungry, is it all 197 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.960 of those things? Let's find out what it is that 198 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:38.320 bugs you and really suppress you as a person down 199 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:40.720 to your lowest point, and then how do you make 200 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.320 decisions right while we watch you? You know, can you 201 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.159 make good decisions? Can you follow procedure regardless of all 202 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.320 those other external circumstances, And you know it's I think 203 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:53.600 the curriculum works because for you know, what's it like 204 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.120 eighty you know, about eighty years at this point, it 205 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:00.360 has been able to take people to that point and 206 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.919 asking those questions and net largely the people that we're 207 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.080 looking for. You know, it's a selection course and not 208 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:08.559 there's no selection course that is perfect. So it's a 209 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:10.159 bell curve. You get the good, bad, and the ugly 210 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.399 and everything in between. But it does a really good 211 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.200 job of, if finding a way to push people to 212 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.600 that point, which gives the instructors the opportunity to kind 213 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.919 of take a peek into their psyche and into their 214 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:21.840 soul a little bit. 215 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:27.399 Yeah, was there any particular challenge that you faced while 216 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.200 you were in Buds that you that you thought would 217 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.480 get you or were you kind of even keel the 218 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:36.399 way the whole way. 219 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:40.240 Through in a lot of ways. It was what I 220 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.639 thought it would be. I mean, the attrition rate has 221 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:46.639 been the attrition rate largely again since the forties, so 222 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.159 that that shouldn't be a shock to anybody, and anybody 223 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.080 with a double digit IQ should probably ask themselves, well, 224 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.120 why is that the case? And where does most of 225 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:57.679 this attrition occur? And it's actually in the first five 226 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:00.279 weeks in first phase where they're teaching you absolutely nothing, 227 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:04.440 and it's a physical you know, the first ten weeks 228 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.399 of training in first phase, it's just purely physical in nature. 229 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.919 It's where the you know, the telephone poles and the 230 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:11.919 obstacle course and the boats and the surf and all 231 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:14.080 that stuff occurs. And where hell we co occurs where 232 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:19.519 the vast majority of the attrition happens. Usually, you know, 233 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:21.720 starts on a Sunday, but most people have quit by 234 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:26.440 about Tuesday morning. But there isn't There was not any 235 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:29.679 one thing I describe buds, and I'm sure this is 236 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.720 true of any special operations pipeline that has the appropriate duration. 237 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:38.519 It's not any one day or any one thing. It's 238 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.519 the combination of all of the things. It's like taking 239 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:44.440 a piece of eighty grit sandpaper and going up to 240 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.759 somebody and saying, hey, I need you to grate this 241 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.559 across your knuckles once. You know, the first time they 242 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.279 do it, it's not going to be comfortable. But if 243 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:53.679 you tell me they all have to do it once, 244 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:54.039 it's not. 245 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.039 Going to be a problem. Buds is taking. 246 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.919 That sandpaper across your knuckles, you know, one hundred and 247 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.159 eighty two, one hundred and eighty three times, and when 248 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.440 your hands are already bleeding and you know they're blistered, 249 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.840 and it's excruciatingly painful. It's the totality of kind of 250 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.519 doing the same thing over and over and over again 251 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:14.200 that gets people, not just one evolution in and of itself. 252 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.919 It's physically challenging. But and again this is I think 253 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.240 this is true probably of any special operations pipeline, the 254 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.440 amount of testing that you have to do to show 255 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.120 up for your first day, Like, if you can pass 256 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.519 all those tests from a physiological perspective. 257 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:32.679 You have the ability to graduate the course. 258 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.000 It's what fails is the muscle that's above your neck, 259 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:39.080 not the muscle that's below it. So it's hard, but 260 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.639 more people just give up than anything. 261 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.919 Yeah, yeah, and what year did you arrive at the 262 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.159 teams and what was that like kind of stepping in 263 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:50.519 the door. 264 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:56.639 Late ninety seven, I checked into Team five, and I 265 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.279 mean it was I don't have the vocabulary or how 266 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.919 awesome it was. I mean it's since I was eleven, Like, 267 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.519 it's all I ever wanted to do. And then you 268 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:09.840 walk across the quarterdeck, which is the stupid naval terminology. 269 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:11.799 Army guys probably just call it the front door, but 270 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.480 we have to have some stupid term, and uh, You're 271 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.159 surrounded by. 272 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.360 Your heroes and it's bad ass. 273 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.559 They're wearing like board shorts and flip flops, T shirts 274 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:27.240 and sunglasses and they're playing volleyball on Friday and having 275 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.320 a kegger and there here's hey, here's your here's your 276 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.960 M four. Go have a good time. Here's a grenade. 277 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:35.639 You know, not that they would like give that to 278 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:37.120 me in San Diego, but we would go out on 279 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.200 you know, training evolutions. It's like, yeah, I want to 280 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.120 fly in a helicopter, Yes, I want to shoot the 281 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.679 M sixty. Yes I want to shoot the law in 282 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:45.080 the eighty four, and I want to do it all 283 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.200 before lunch. And that's what they would let you do. 284 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.240 It was everything that I thought it could be fantastic. 285 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:53.559 How how was it with your team? You know, you're 286 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.840 checking in, you're the you're the new guy, and if. 287 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.960 Oh, you know how it was, it's the goddamn exact 288 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.480 same thing it was for you shut up, new guy. 289 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.240 Here's you know like And you know, I look back 290 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:08.000 on it the single most dangerous point of my entire 291 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.279 career and for clarity, I mean to myself and the 292 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.720 people that I was working with, was right when I 293 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.240 came across that quarterback with a lot of book knowledge 294 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.240 and absolutely no street knowledge whatsoever. So it was like, hey, 295 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.320 shut the fuck up, I don't we don't care what 296 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.399 you think. You know, We'll tell you when we need you, 297 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.559 which is going to be never keep your mouth shut 298 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:27.440 and just try to learn. 299 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.720 Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So what was the process back then? 300 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.519 Buds and then the land warfare portion and then would 301 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.200 you get your out of that one? Okay? 302 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:43.200 So yeah, it was uh, they were just transitioning to 303 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:46.279 what was then called what did. 304 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:46.720 They call it? 305 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:51.080 It was called s STT back then Seal Tactical training. 306 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.679 Before that, right before that, in the late nineties, each 307 00:14:54.879 --> 00:15:00.919 team ran their own post buds curriculum, which we intuitively, 308 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.840 all three of us know, that's a really shitty idea, 309 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.240 Like you have all people wearing the same uniform. I 310 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.440 got an idea, let's not share any information, let's actually 311 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.840 hide it from each other and fight for budget and relevance, 312 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:17.360 and then decades down the road when somebody actually attacks us, 313 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.759 we're not going to really be able to work with them. Yeah, 314 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.159 it was such a horrible idea looking back, and I 315 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.120 understand completely why they did it, because in the absence 316 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.080 of an actual enemy, where of course going to fight 317 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:32.440 ourselves and our fellow servicemen. So prior to when I started, 318 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:35.080 each team ran their own pipeline. You do about a 319 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.120 year of a probation where they the team would internally 320 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.440 put you through their own training, sell all of those things. 321 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.120 When I got there, they did the first class of STT, 322 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:47.879 which has now become SQT. And I'm not actually even 323 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.320 really familiar the whole pipeline that they go through, but 324 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:53.440 it brought everybody who was going to be on the 325 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:55.200 West coast. Most of them were guys that I had 326 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.159 just gone through BUDS with, and they put us through 327 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.919 the group command that oversees all of the odd number 328 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.759 teams put the training on, so at least when we 329 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:04.080 went back to the teams, we all had the same 330 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:08.039 baseline level of training. And then though each team had 331 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.279 a different process for awarding the trident, so I had 332 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.080 to go. You'd study it up a bunch and I 333 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.360 spent it was two days basically a two day verbal 334 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.600 and practical test where you'd go to the armory and 335 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.519 there'd be three senior guys sitting there and I mean 336 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:22.360 there was an AR on the table, There's an M 337 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.279 sixty on the table, a SIG two two six, and 338 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.320 they're all disassembled, and it's like, okay, put them back together. 339 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.759 And also while you're doing so, you know what's the 340 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.360 maximum effective range, what's the you know, the muzzlevelocity coming 341 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.559 out of it, What's what's this the spring spring recoil guy? 342 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.320 Like all you know, like you're just the full on 343 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.519 test of knowledge. And then you'd go to the diving 344 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.039 locker and it's like, hey, plant a closed circuit dive, 345 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.039 here's the tides, here's the current land nov. I mean 346 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.320 I was gonna say night vision, but we didn't have 347 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.399 any back then, No big deal, and uh, you know, 348 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.200 you go through all the departments, and then at the 349 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:58.399 very end they come together, the training staff comes together, 350 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.559 and then they awarded the people they're trying who had 351 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.759 passed the test, and then they retested and retread to 352 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:05.559 the people. There was I think one or two in 353 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:07.440 the group that I was with, and then from there 354 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.880 you were integrated back into the platoon and then you 355 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.480 were kind of handed back over to the group training 356 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.000 cell to do the like the operational level, the platoon 357 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.279 level training getting ready for your pre nine eleven deployment, 358 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:20.759 which was just forward staging. 359 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.359 Yeah, and so when you walked through the quarter deck, 360 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.319 now that I know that term, uh yeah, what was 361 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.200 like the mission profile at that time in the late 362 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.519 nineteen nineties, What were you guys training for? What were 363 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.880 you looking at getting into? 364 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.079 So it depended on your team. So I was at 365 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.519 Team five. We were Southwest Asia, so specifically we were 366 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:42.240 looking at North Korea. In the South Korea. Forget what 367 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.240 the op plan was, It was like fifteen nine to 368 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:45.359 eleven or something like that. 369 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:46.559 So I was back and. 370 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:51.079 Forth to exercise foul eagle a half dozen times, you know, 371 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:54.440 at least, and so obviously that area of the world 372 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:55.920 can get cold, so we were more of like an 373 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.839 Arctic cold weather specialist, and then literally a nine iron, 374 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.160 like a shitty nine iron shot. South was Team three, 375 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.079 and they were specifically focused on the desert, so they 376 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.000 had like desert patrol vehicles, different cammies, you know, they 377 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.039 were doing hides in the desert. I mean I'm talking 378 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:18.640 not very much skill overlay, so it really depended per team. 379 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.960 I remember Team eight, no Team four at the time, 380 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.960 they were doing anti drug interdiction ops and by that 381 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.440 I mean what we would probably consider now I advise 382 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.480 and assist. I think down in like Columbia. I think 383 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:35.960 Team two was deploying to Europe at the time and 384 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.200 maybe doing like a little bit of Pifwick stuff, so 385 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.920 personnel indicted for war crimes. But like it was, it 386 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.119 was so dependent on what team you were attached to. 387 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.599 So you can also imagine if a team got to 388 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.039 do something like a non permissive boarding in the Middle East, 389 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:54.640 right with their MP fives and handlebar mustaches, which I 390 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.440 deeply appreciate to this day, you would see people who 391 00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.920 were trying to get the Team three from all the 392 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.319 other teams, right, because like god damn it, we just 393 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:03.720 went over to Europe and like, yeah, you were in 394 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.880 like some beautiful country drinking drinking amazing you know, beers, 395 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.880 surrounded by beautiful women, like I think you're gonna be okay. 396 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:13.279 But they wanted to be on the big Mish. They 397 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.599 wanted to go on the argy elephants. So there was 398 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.519 a lot of infighting. It was in hindsight, it was 399 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:19.720 quite comical. 400 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.359 Yeah, yeah, I mean SF is kind of like set 401 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.559 up the same way and with the different theaters, and 402 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.160 you know, especially like you talk about ninety seven, like 403 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.480 that was sort of the war on drugs. All the 404 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.880 money was going into those sexy missions into you know, 405 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.480 Latin America, and it's and then you know, you yeah, 406 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.599 so I can imagine sort of the the combat or 407 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:47.720 the operational envy that was there, and some guys obviously 408 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.839 were probably I'm sure that some teams, you know, were like, hey, yeah, 409 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.079 you know, we just went went down to Columbia. We're 410 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.400 running with the you know, against the fark or whatever, 411 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.839 and it's like, oh my k yeah. 412 00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:59.319 I mean there was what they said they were doing, 413 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.960 and then you come to find out they weren't to 414 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.759 do it shit right right right. It was a it 415 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:07.799 was peace time. I mean it really was so we 416 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:10.400 I mean, we trained our asses off in the hopes 417 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:12.559 that the big mission would show up. We'd talk about 418 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.400 the Golden connex box and all the things that we 419 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.880 would get and how bad ass we would be, and 420 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.759 uh yeah, that was that was kind of the life. 421 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.279 But also it was still awesome. I was working with 422 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:24.599 my heroes. I mean at the age of I mean 423 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:26.759 I was had my trident before I was twenty one 424 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.000 years old, flying around in helicopters. You know, shoot, move 425 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.680 and communicate yes please, like I'll take two. Like that's 426 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.240 it's not a bad way to grow up. 427 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.200 Hey, guys, I want to thank a new sponsor that 428 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.839 we have today. It's front work where they make great boots, 429 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.359 great work where if you're a worker like me, if 430 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.960 people who know me know, I love to work with 431 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.440 my hands like a man, my hands and my body. 432 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.880 And when you work with your hands in your body, 433 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.759 you need a good pair of boots. And honestly, I 434 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.079 was so excited that we had Brunt as a sponsor 435 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:01.880 because I bought a pair of boots a year and 436 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.680 a half ago from them. Look at that these are 437 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:11.160 used warn love. These these are called the Marins. 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Who's the 449 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.599 teamhouse brontworkware dot com. Teamhouse is the code for ten 450 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:55.799 dollars off. I love you, Thank you, Thank you a 451 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.200 brunt workware for supporting the show. 452 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:02.480 So back to you. You're getting all this awesome experience. 453 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.079 You're living the life as a young man, young Navy seal. 454 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:08.000 We get to that point about like two thousand and 455 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.319 two thousand and one sort of where are you at? 456 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:15.039 You know, personally and professionally. Around that time frame, I was. 457 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.880 In my second platoon. We were getting ready for really 458 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:24.200 mission critical deployment to gum, you know, just very strategic location. 459 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:25.839 A lot of stuff for us to do there, like 460 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.839 drink and work out and go to strip clubs. 461 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:31.480 Very strategic. 462 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.640 And actually I take that back, so right at the 463 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.039 end of two thousand and one, I had already made 464 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:40.599 the decision that I wanted to screen for the East 465 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:45.000 Coast Command, and I had just gotten back off of 466 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.759 that deployment about a month before nine to eleven, I think, 467 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.319 and was in the process of screening in between. I 468 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:58.359 started selection in two thousand and two, so between like 469 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:03.200 July or August of one to early two thousand and two, 470 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.000 that's kind of what my process, or not my process, 471 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.440 but my mindset was was complete the screening process and 472 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.880 then just prepped for the course. 473 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:17.079 Were you at all concerned, like at any point did 474 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.319 you think that you might withdraw your package or whatever 475 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.759 because you were worried that the whole Afghanistan thing would 476 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:25.839 be over so soon that and you'd be in training 477 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:27.000 during that time. 478 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.799 No, I mean, the FOMO is real. I feel like 479 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.480 just about everybody in the military probably felt that, Like, 480 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:38.680 oh my god, I felt it again the invasion of 481 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.400 Iraq kicked off. It's like people were trying to squeeze 482 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.039 an entire military career into like a ninety day deployment 483 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.279 because they thought it was going to be a one 484 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.640 and done. It's like hah ha, yeah, jokes on you. 485 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:52.279 There's more than enough for everybody and then some. So 486 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.319 I had never I mean, the FOMO was real for sure, 487 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:59.039 But what I didn't know a lot about when I 488 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.400 joined was development group. I hadn't I didn't know, and 489 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.680 it just wasn't talked about, It wasn't publicized. And when 490 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:13.200 people would screen, if they were successful, they just disappeared 491 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:14.960 because they stayed there and did their job. But if 492 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.640 they failed, they'd go to like an SDV team, or 493 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.079 they would go out to human to be a free 494 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.079 fall instructor. So you never got like a chance to 495 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.599 really understand what the fuck was going on, like what 496 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.440 actually happens in selection, like what's the actual job. But 497 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.880 I did have enough information to realize that if anybody 498 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.480 was going to stay busy, it probably was going to 499 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.519 be that command. So even if, like you know, Afghanistan 500 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.440 had been a very bright burning candle that had rapidly 501 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:45.880 gone out, if anything else was going to help happen anywhere, 502 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.200 the likelihood of being involved with that was exponentially higher 503 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.480 out east than it was in Cornado, Right right? 504 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.599 Did they how did you find out about it? Did 505 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.519 they do recruiting trips to the to the teams, like 506 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:02.359 to pitch anybody or is it just a word of 507 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:02.839 mouth thing. 508 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.240 In my second platoon, two of the guys, two of 509 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:10.240 the senior guys. One of them was the head of 510 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.559 the comms department and I was his secondary and the 511 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.319 other one was the point man for the squad number one. 512 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.359 They were both getting ready to go, and so I 513 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.359 heard information about the first I had the ability to 514 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.880 pick their brain, like like what is this? Why do 515 00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.559 you guys want to go there? So I was able 516 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.079 to gain some of their knowledge. There was not a 517 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.599 recruiting pitch by any stretch. There was just a Navy 518 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.880 message that came out saying when the screening was going 519 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.160 to be, and then it had the requirements for the package, 520 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:39.920 where to be, what to be prepared to do, and 521 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.559 that was about it. There was not that much information 522 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:43.119 about it. 523 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:47.160 And so then what was the I mean, we've had 524 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.960 a few guests on here to describe a little bit 525 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.960 about the selection and training process, but I mean, there 526 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:55.720 are any points maybe or lessons learned or something from 527 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:59.319 Green Platoon that you'd really like to highlight. No. 528 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.839 I mean what I would say is because people ask 529 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:04.200 me this all the time, like, well, what's the difference 530 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:06.319 between BUDS and going through Green Team? And it's like, well, 531 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:08.400 I think they call it selection and training. Now I 532 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.599 don't fucking no, I can't keep up with the acronyms, 533 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:15.960 nor do I care. But Buds was are you mentally 534 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:21.400 tough enough to not quit? Green Team was? Can you 535 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.359 be technically proficient enough to operate at the level that 536 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.240 we need you to operate at? So it was no 537 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.160 longer hey, push ups, sit ups, flutterkicks, pull ups, running, 538 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.680 even though I think we probably did some of those, 539 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:36.079 not the flutterkicks. Everybody is exhausted by those by the 540 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:39.279 time Buds is over. I mean, there was physical components 541 00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:44.319 to it, but it was practical execution of special operations 542 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.680 skill sets, and you are graded upon your performance as 543 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:49.519 opposed to trying to get somebody to ring a bell 544 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:50.160 to quit. 545 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.519 I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, Andy, But 546 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.920 one of the big differences between the way Army and 547 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.279 Navy does it is, you know, all the Army units 548 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.119 have their own selection, their own training, et cetera. But 549 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.400 with the development group, it seems like the selection process 550 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.480 is really from because the only people who can go 551 00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:10.200 there are seals. So the selection processes Buds be successful 552 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:14.160 at your platoon and then green platoon, so it's kind 553 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.640 of like a different sort of pathway where they're not 554 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.440 having to maybe vet you as strongly as like a 555 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.359 guy just showing up at SF selection or Delta selection 556 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.880 who maybe came off the street, so to speak, or 557 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.319 came from the conventional side. 558 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.279 Yeah, I mean, Buds is unique or relatively unique in 559 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.799 the aspect that it's the origin story for everybody who 560 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.640 ever got a triedent. I mean you're literally shouldered to 561 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.640 shoulder with officer in enlisted. There's no ballooning out of 562 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.720 the Buds. Course, you share in the suffering and you 563 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.079 perceived reward if there is any. I mean, we hang 564 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:48.440 that with the students, like, oh, if you do this, 565 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.839 you're gonna get rewarded. It's a total lie for anybody listening. 566 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.839 Don't expect a reward of any kind. It's punishment followed 567 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.759 by punishment, as it should be, only because it happened 568 00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:58.680 to us. So we have to generationally pass that down 569 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:05.279 to you. But so the initial selection of the individuals 570 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:08.039 and then the mentoring in the community starts when you 571 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:10.599 start at BUDS, and so you're drawing from the same pool. 572 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.119 My understanding of CAG is, you know they open it 573 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.400 all to all services, So you're gonna get a hodgepot. 574 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.160 You're going to get a bufet of people. You may 575 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.240 not understand their background or origin story to the degree 576 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.720 that you may understand it inside of the Seale community. 577 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:28.880 And again I'll be the first to tell you that 578 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:31.799 the selection process is not perfect. We had people slide 579 00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:33.839 through who absolutely shouldn't, as it's going to happen in 580 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:38.759 every course, but you know, it's it's I feel like 581 00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:43.880 there is a level of strength and just knowledge of 582 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:46.359 who the people are to your left and right, knowing 583 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.480 that you all came through the exact same pipeline. 584 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:54.880 Right right, Yeah, And even though there's not like the 585 00:28:54.920 --> 00:29:01.440 precursor sort of s SFAs style selection, everybody already did BUDS, 586 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:05.480 but there's still that winnowing, like it's still on your 587 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.039 hall file. Is still they're still checking in with people 588 00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:11.240 like do you trust this person? Is this somebody you 589 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.480 would want to operate with which which a hall file 590 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.079 can be. You know, it follows you everywhere, and it 591 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.920 can be you know, very like selective. 592 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:24.119 And it should be. 593 00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.359 You know, one of the things that they instituted when 594 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:31.319 I was a BUDS instructor was peer reviews. And you know, 595 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.200 we all have we all have our public face, like 596 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.200 who we allow people to see us as, or who 597 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.160 we want to be, and then there's r when nobody's around, 598 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:44.240 and fuck. I was shocked as a BUDS instructor some 599 00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:46.599 of the feedback on some of what you would consider 600 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:51.279 to be the top performers, resounding feedback on how they 601 00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.319 were basically just putting a mask on in front of 602 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.960 the instructor staff. And you know, there were tools that 603 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.279 we were allowed to use to try to expose those 604 00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:01.519 things and get rid of those people, because I'm not 605 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.680 looking for somebody who can wear a mask, right, Like 606 00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:07.400 the perfect selection course would be you could crack the 607 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.440 mask and see who the person is behind, and I 608 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.720 think most of these selection courses are able to do that. 609 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.880 But in the absence of being able to be perfect 610 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:19.319 like that, I think those hall files in the student feedback, 611 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.279 I think it is absolutely essential. You know, Budds is 612 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.000 not a three hundred and sixty five day seven you know, 613 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:27.960 seven day a week, twenty four hours. It's a Monday 614 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.799 through Friday, right. Other than they have a plenty of 615 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.920 time as a class away from the instructor staff where 616 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.759 they can show other students who they really are, right 617 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.039 and giving me a students the ability to give us 618 00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:42.319 that feedback in a manner that didn't have their name 619 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.400 associated with it, knew that there wasn't going to be 620 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.519 punitive measures associated with it. It really helped pierce the 621 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:49.599 mask on some people. 622 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:54.319 Yeah. Yeah, So when you were going through Green Team, 623 00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:59.519 because you know this is what were you there like 624 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.480 th or post nine to eleven or was that part 625 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:04.079 of your time there? 626 00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:07.319 I started selection in two thousand and two, so shortly 627 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.039 after nine eleven. 628 00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:12.640 Okay, So during that time, was Green Team going undergoing 629 00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:17.039 any changes due to like real real world feedback that 630 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.359 they were getting in Afghanistan at that time? 631 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.680 I don't think so. Well, I never saw a Green 632 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:25.240 Team class before that, so I can't give a totally 633 00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:30.680 holistic answer to that. I don't think so, because I 634 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.680 mean nine eleven obviously happened in September. I'm in selection 635 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.960 in March, maybe they would have had ninety days worth 636 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.720 of beta over to Afghanistan, right in, much like Iraq 637 00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.680 early on, not very kinetic, right, I mean, which is 638 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:48.799 smart from our enemy and maybe maybe let's just sit 639 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:51.119 this one back and see what our enemy is doing 640 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:52.599 here before they go toe to toe. 641 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:54.119 So a lot of the. 642 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:56.519 Lessons that ended up being learned in Blood had not 643 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:57.440 occurred yet. 644 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:02.519 Right, Right, So you get through a green team and 645 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.799 what was it like, you know, stepping in now you 646 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:09.000 know your first team. Yeah, for the second time. 647 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.640 What was they had just gotten back off a rotation 648 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.680 from Afghanistan. It was their first combat rotation to Afghanistan, 649 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:20.480 and it was fucking awesome. You know, you go into 650 00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:23.319 a team room again, it's the same thing. It's like 651 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:28.119 they're the vast majority of guys in this seal community 652 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.119 have no desire to go to development group, which is awesome, 653 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:32.759 Like cool, don't go if you don't want to go, 654 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:35.240 Like it's totally voluntary, just like getting into the seal community. 655 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.880 And some people have like a real hang up over that, 656 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.319 and I don't understand why, Like if you want to go, 657 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:41.799 do that, go do that. If you don't want to 658 00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:44.440 go do that, then don't go do that to me. 659 00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.319 For me? When I heard about it, I was like, Okay, 660 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.319 this is like the next logical progression. Why would I 661 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.640 not go do this? So it became again entering into 662 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.400 a room of people that were just like absolutely my heroes, 663 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.240 It's like, holy shit, I just made it to the 664 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:05.039 major leagues. There's a wall with everybody's name and the 665 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.039 year that they graduated, and you have a plaque with 666 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:10.000 your name on it, Like that's pretty fucking awesome because 667 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.319 there's not a lot of names over there. Yeah, and 668 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:18.359 you know, the command was rapidly scaling up when it 669 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.920 came to fuck everything from equipment to support personnel, to 670 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.559 operational personnel to operational tempo. And it was awesome. It 671 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:30.680 was everything that I thought being a seal could and 672 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:31.160 would be. 673 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:39.880 It's fantastic. What when you did Green Team not having 674 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:42.119 any idea what was going on? So you had been 675 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.559 a seal and obviously you as a seal, you're like, okay, 676 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.799 I'm technically, I'm tactically proficient. I have all these skills, 677 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.880 and then you go to Green Team where now they're 678 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.000 teaching you whole new things. What what was that like? 679 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.559 For you sort of having that veil pulled back. 680 00:33:58.279 --> 00:33:58.759 I mean. 681 00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:02.240 At the Jaysock level. 682 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:06.279 I did a workup in a deployment with the you know, 683 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:11.039 army component of Jaysok as well with a squadron, and 684 00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:15.760 so I can speak broadly about what I think their 685 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.719 mission set is. It's very closely aligned. I mean at 686 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:21.440 the Jaysuck level, it's very closely aligned. The reason they're 687 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:23.920 so good at that job is they strip away a 688 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.960 lot of the other bullshit, you know. I described conventional 689 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.440 special Operations as a multi tool and let's say it's 690 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.880 got fifteen little levers that you can pull out, a 691 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.639 Phillips head, you know, an Allen key, a shitty pair 692 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:41.199 of scissors, and an almost useless knife. Well, at development group, 693 00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.800 I was like, it's two tools. It's like, you know, 694 00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.599 not saying we only did two things, but it was 695 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.480 a reduction of responsibility that allowed you to hyper focus 696 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.760 on a particular skill set that allows you to get 697 00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.519 really good at it. It's like, oh, well, I can 698 00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.800 invest my entire day, shoot, move and communicate. That's literally 699 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.400 all I'm going to practice it. And it's I have 700 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.199 a multi you know, fifty million dollars kill house that 701 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:06.559 has movable walls and ranges that I have access to 702 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.360 three hundred and sixty five days a year, twenty four 703 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.719 hours a day. I can keep my guns in my cases. 704 00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:13.199 I can have a thousand rounds of AMO of any 705 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:16.280 kind that I want to in my cage. Like it had. 706 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:22.880 It was every opportunity to focus on essentially actions on 707 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.199 the ejective objective. And that's why those commands are good 708 00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.679 at it. It's you know, they don't do as much stuff. 709 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:32.119 I mean, tasking development group of doing a hydrographic reconnaissance 710 00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:34.760 or a closed circuit dive, don't do it. I mean 711 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.800 they'll probably be able to get it done, but it's 712 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.960 gonna be fucking ugly, you know. But if you're taking 713 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.400 hostage in a remote location somewhere, I really want a 714 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.480 JASAUK unit to come and get me right right. 715 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:51.320 So, what was like like when you did get spun 716 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.199 up for your first deployment? Well, where were you? Where 717 00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:56.440 were you going? What was the mission at that time? 718 00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.920 And you know kind of what's going on for you 719 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:00.559 in your mind. 720 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:04.159 So they finished us up with Green Team early and 721 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.679 actually we augmented the cars I detail, which was a 722 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:09.840 different squadron than the one I was going to be 723 00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:12.440 attached to, but there was a it was the tail ended. 724 00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:14.559 It was after the assassination attempt. They were trying to 725 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.960 wind it down. I think they turned it over to Dinacre. 726 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:20.719 So that was my first actual trip overseas. I mean 727 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.639 that was that was wild. You know, waking up in 728 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:24.559 Bogram for the first time and going outside and looking 729 00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:26.599 around and you're like, Okay, this shit's real. And then 730 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:29.039 you know, driving up to Cobble and you know, staying 731 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.440 at the you know, the yellow house right there and 732 00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:33.639 just doing all the security stuff. And it was maybe 733 00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:34.920 I don't know, forty five days. 734 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:35.440 It was brief. 735 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.239 Come back and immediately on the radar was the invasion 736 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.840 of Iraq, and for whatever reason, probably random timing more 737 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:48.840 than anything or the George cycle, my squadron got up 738 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:53.039 selected for the invasion. So we started training pretty rapidly 739 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:55.880 towards the target set that you know, the intel at 740 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:58.920 the time was pointing at Swards. Our main focus at 741 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:00.400 the time was going to be the number on ken 742 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.199 Bio site in Iraq, because I mean, anybody alive during 743 00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:04.519 that time period can tell you it was. It was 744 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.159 originally pitched around WMD which is a whole conversation in 745 00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:11.159 of itself looking in the rear view mirror, right. So 746 00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:17.440 it's like we had I think the first three objective 747 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:19.440 is that we were likely going to action. We already 748 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.480 had the intelligence on them, we had models, we had 749 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.840 you know, air conditioning specialists coming and telling us why 750 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:27.320 this level of air conditioning on the roof is you know, 751 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:29.440 it's definitely this is definitely a lab. I'm like, oh yeah, 752 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:31.559 it's also definitely hot as fuck there in the summer too, 753 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.559 so maybe the racy units on the roof, and you know, 754 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:37.880 that's what we were looking to doing. And then we 755 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:39.239 got over there. So I was there, you know when 756 00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:41.360 Bush gave him the you know, the twenty four hour speech, 757 00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:44.519 and we were just sitting intense and our Saudi Arabia 758 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.519 getting ready to go. And then yeah, the first real 759 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.719 world operation I ever did was in full on mop 760 00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.920 level four, absolute nightmare and on what ended up being 761 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.280 an agricultural school, which was the number one keem biotarget. 762 00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:02.000 We had Nelson Miller on the show and he's with me, 763 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:07.079 yea with him however, you yeah, yeah, you can walk 764 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:08.480 us through it from your from your point. 765 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:11.400 Of view and also just for looking through goddamn soda straws, 766 00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:13.840 sweating my ass off as you go objective number one. 767 00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:17.519 Yeah, so just for the uh, I don't know, the 768 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:21.880 the enjoyment of of our of our audience. You may 769 00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:26.840 not understand what a lovely experience mock gear is. Can you? 770 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.960 Can you kind of tell us about it and and 771 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.440 how you operate mock gear? 772 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:34.199 I mean not, Well, there is the answer for mission 773 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:38.719 oriented protective posture. And just think of it as who's 774 00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.119 that movie with like Laurence Fishburn where it was it 775 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.360 an outbreak or a bowler or something like that. Those 776 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.039 suits were nice, they looked comfortable, they were big, and 777 00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:47.920 they looked like they were. 778 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:49.480 Flat screen in front. 779 00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.719 Yeah, so imagine trying to replicate that. But you have 780 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:55.039 to go run around and you know, potentially fight people, 781 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:56.519 and of course it has to be camouflaged. 782 00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:58.119 So it's basically and. 783 00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.800 There's levels like MOP level one, I think, is what 784 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:02.360 is it You have to have your mask with you 785 00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:05.320 but not on something like that, Yeah, top level two. 786 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.880 Maybe you put like the outer layer on MOP level three. 787 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.840 I don't know, maybe that's the mask. MOP level four 788 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:16.280 is like you are fully kembuioed up expecting to encounter 789 00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:19.559 an agent of some kind. So I think the helicopter 790 00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.119 ride in it was hours long on forty seven's mid 791 00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.280 air refueling, and like thirty minutes out, you know, you're like, 792 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:28.679 you got like thirty dudes in the back of forty 793 00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:30.599 seven all trying to get their shit on and like 794 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:34.320 tucking each other's you know, all this stuff that goes 795 00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:36.719 around the mask and under the helmet, and you're just like, 796 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.119 this is the worst thing ever. Please somebody kill me now. 797 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:41.679 And then you know, your night vision goggle is like 798 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:43.679 touching the end of your gas mask, so you already 799 00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:45.679 can't see through a grade anyway, and now it's farther 800 00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:49.400 away from your face. So it's just just for people 801 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:53.400 out there, just go rap, go buy a Costco a 802 00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:55.960 bag of trash bags and then put them all on 803 00:39:56.559 --> 00:39:59.360 and that's what MOP level four is and then look 804 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:05.480 through you know, toilet paper actually soda straws, and you know, 805 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.639 we started getting shot at like a minute out, and 806 00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:10.960 the door gunner got shot in the head right next 807 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:11.880 to me. I was all the way up in the 808 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:13.679 front of the aircraft. I don't even know we were 809 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.199 getting shot at because I couldn't hear or see anything, 810 00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:23.760 and they nuked the power grid like this transport transformer complex, 811 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:29.079 and then we landed the helicopter package in between the smoking, 812 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:35.039 burning transformer complex and the objective totally backlit, just getting 813 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.960 people the perfect opportunity to just take potshots as which 814 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:41.480 they did. So there was like a gunfight going on 815 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:44.079 out in the street. I was in the assault element 816 00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.000 that started going inside of the building. We had little 817 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.639 birds overhead, We had snipers up in the little birds 818 00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:50.880 that were dumping people, and I'm just. 819 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.320 Like, what the fuck is this like? 820 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:55.239 We can't keep doing this, This can't be what this 821 00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.079 is like, I can't see anything. 822 00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:58.239 Sweating to death. 823 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:00.960 I ripped my mask off like two minutes after being 824 00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:03.079 inside of that place because it was utterly clear that 825 00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:04.920 it was not a KEM bio threat. And I actually 826 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.559 would have rather been killed by a KEM bio threat 827 00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:10.719 than wear that mop level four anymore. And you know, 828 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.280 we get back to you know, we fly back another 829 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:14.559 three and a half four hours. 830 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:17.119 Fuck. 831 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:19.400 I mean one of the blocking positions, a ranger took 832 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.039 around like through and through, ran like one hundred yards 833 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.000 off realized it was a bad idea, went and got 834 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.960 back on the helicopter, you know, which is how I 835 00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:28.800 ended up meeting Pat Tillman because he was the guy 836 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.840 who came in and he was like that guy's secondary. 837 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.199 It was. 838 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.880 It was crazy, all the things that ended up coming together. 839 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.199 But I remember waking up the next morning sitting there 840 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.920 and talking to a buddy of mine, like, hey man, 841 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:43.800 I don't think it's gonna go. 842 00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:44.559 That well for us. 843 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:46.519 If this is how we're going to do business all 844 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:47.840 time we're over here. 845 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:49.760 So there you go. 846 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:51.320 That was target number one. 847 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.920 Hey guys, our show is sponsored by ghost Bag. 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I 894 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.400 love ghost Sped, Thanks guys. 895 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.400 I mean, what was target number two? Or was it 896 00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:26.400 three or four? H Jessica Lynch. 897 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:30.320 Too, it was number two two, Yeah, And that was 898 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.400 the exact opposite. It was like the Intel was like, 899 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:35.760 there's this crazy threat and I'm sure Nelson told you, like, 900 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.800 we can only fit so many people on the helicopters, 901 00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:41.480 and it's like, you'll do anything you can for another 902 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.960 service member, So we were going to take the risk 903 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.960 that was being presented to us. They're like, oh, yeah, 904 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.079 it's a staging point for Fettian could be somewhere between 905 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.000 fifty to five hundred, Like, uh, I think we can 906 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:56.280 fit twenty seven on this helicopter package. Yeah, but you're 907 00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.840 gonna go. And then in the end they had left 908 00:44:57.840 --> 00:44:59.239 like the day before. You know, there's not a single 909 00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:01.599 shot fired inside out of the hospital. And it was 910 00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:04.960 what it was, and unfortunately it got the person I 911 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.960 feel the worst for is actually Jessica, because it got 912 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.239 spun so completely out of control. It had nothing to 913 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.360 do with her, everything to do with the I mean, 914 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.239 I remember, I remember the first news reports they were 915 00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.280 talking about giving her the Medal of Honor. She should 916 00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:20.400 be the first woman recipient of the Medal of Honor 917 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.719 because she fought until her last round and then you know, 918 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.840 she went dry and I don't know how she would 919 00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:28.480 have ended up getting knocked out. And then I actually 920 00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:30.519 had her on my podcast and was able to reconnect 921 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:32.440 with her, and she told me her story from her side, 922 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:34.199 and I kind of explained it from mine and you know, 923 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.360 she never even got a chance to fire around, you know, 924 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:39.719 But it was just so it was interesting. I wish 925 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:41.800 I had paid more attention to the way that it 926 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:45.199 was twisted and manipulated at the time, but just quite frankly. 927 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.840 We were busy and I didn't care. Yeah, it took 928 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:48.880 me a long time for the real story to come out. 929 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:50.599 I think, well, well, what the other thing that was 930 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.039 so weird is all the people coming out because I 931 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.840 remember all the stories coming out about it was it 932 00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:01.840 was a hoax that the Rangers had blank adapters on 933 00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.880 their weapons, and like Bill O'Reilly was saying that, like 934 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:09.079 seeing it, like all the everybody was saying that they 935 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:11.119 were saying, this is what we've heard, and it's like, 936 00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:16.559 this is such a weird spin on this. On this operation, we. 937 00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:18.960 Got on those helicopters, fully prepared to get our shit 938 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.119 pushed in to try to rescue an American service member. Unfortunately, 939 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:24.639 the you know, the potential or the intel that we 940 00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:26.760 had about the enemy force they had moved on. It 941 00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:28.599 would have sucked that they were still there, but we 942 00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:31.199 still would have gone. And that's the thing. You don't 943 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:33.039 know what the result is going to be. It's not 944 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:36.559 about like what the result was. Like, what's important is 945 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.559 that you fucking nut up and you get your gear 946 00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:39.800 on and you get on the helicopter. 947 00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:40.800 Yeah. 948 00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:43.880 Well was that a good morale boost though? I mean, 949 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.719 after hitting a fake WMD plant, I mean, rescuing an 950 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.480 American soldier must have been a pretty good mission. It 951 00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:51.000 was pretty sweet. Yeah. 952 00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:52.800 But again, like then we got back to our r 953 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:56.599 and then within I don't know, a couple of days, 954 00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:59.079 we went and hit something up at like Lake Tharthar, 955 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:02.320 and then shit, shortly after that, we were on one 956 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.360 of the first one thirties into uh buyap. It's not 957 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:08.920 like you had time to be like we put a 958 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:10.920 one up on the board for us. You just you know, 959 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.639 next right, Yeah, And. 960 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.719 How did the rest of that deployment transpire? I mean, 961 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:18.800 was it was going after the deck of fifty two 962 00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:22.360 at that point? Yeah, fucking deck of cards. 963 00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.559 I mean, it was what it was. It was whackable. 964 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:26.159 I mean, you guys know, I was like, oh, hey, 965 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.079 we're going after this guy. It's like, sweet, do you 966 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:28.599 know where he is? 967 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.119 No? Go loook over here, okay? 968 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:34.960 You know, yeah, and you know you would try to 969 00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.800 derive your own intelligence, and you know, the human networks 970 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.800 that you know, the ASO guys were able to develop 971 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:43.039 later on were not there. It was largely sigant, but 972 00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:48.119 also again like so not kinetic in comparison to what 973 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:51.519 it was later on, because they did what was smart. 974 00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.679 Why go toad? I mean, I wouldn't go toe to toe. 975 00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.239 I live in northwestern Montana. You know, if Red Dawn 976 00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:58.039 actually played itself out, I'm not going to go out 977 00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:00.559 and shoot it a tank with an ar you know, 978 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.599 I'm gonna sit back and be like, I don't know 979 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:05.000 where the droids are that you're looking for. Yeah, because 980 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000 I'm taking notes and developing a plan, you. 981 00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:13.719 Know, right, So how does that trip like? And for like, 982 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.719 first off, you you know, you run after these these 983 00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.280 high priority targets with kind of lacking into all at 984 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.519 the time. Did you have any missions that you felt 985 00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.000 were really successful during that period of time? 986 00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:33.679 Hard to gauge success or failure? I would say from 987 00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:37.320 a tactical perspective, I mean we would go and go 988 00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:40.679 look for somebody and sometimes come back with them, whether 989 00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.000 or not at that time, it made a difference, you 990 00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:43.400 know what I mean. 991 00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:44.440 Like later on in the war. 992 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:49.719 You're talking about incredibly developed cells right of, like suicide 993 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.519 bombers or viba, and like you could go and you 994 00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:56.760 would be like, holy shit, like there's fifteen suicide vests 995 00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:58.400 that are being built right over there, and then there's 996 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.760 like three partially constructed viba and you can take that 997 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.480 sell off of the board that those had much more 998 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.880 of a feeling of this is making a difference than 999 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:08.960 I think that early on. 1000 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:12.000 Deployments probably did. 1001 00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:16.880 Yeah, so how does that deployment end up or wrap 1002 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.400 up for you? And then what's the next stage you 1003 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.400 get when you get back to Virginia. 1004 00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.199 We ripped out with a CAG squadron and then because 1005 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:27.239 again like Foma was real, they had their first squadron 1006 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.880 there was out actually doing scud hunting because they thought 1007 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:31.760 that that's where the jam was going to be, and 1008 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:35.480 you know, there was no jam at that point. And again, 1009 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:36.920 I think a lot of people were viewing this like 1010 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:38.480 we have to get it in now. So I think 1011 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:40.440 they kind of wanted us out of there because we were, like, 1012 00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.320 we were going out every night and they saw that 1013 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:45.119 and they're like, how about you guys get the fuck 1014 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.000 out of here? So we got the fuck out of 1015 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.199 there because we were working for an army general and 1016 00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:53.199 then just started ping ponging back and forth between Afghanistan 1017 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:55.840 and Iraq. You know that the deployment cycle at a 1018 00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:58.480 Jaysuck command at that time was going to be ninety 1019 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.400 days overseas, one hundred and twenty days by at nauseam 1020 00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:02.119 until you break. 1021 00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:07.599 Yeah, and so one uh what with the next apployment 1022 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:09.679 one hundred and twenty days later back to Iraq? 1023 00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:15.320 I won eighty ninety trained up ninety stand by, so yeah, 1024 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.519 it was ninety one eighty ninety, so about basically half 1025 00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:19.800 of every year you re leased overseas. But then of 1026 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.440 course you were gone doing training trips the entire time 1027 00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:23.880 as well too, so it was busy. 1028 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:24.800 The op tempo was high. 1029 00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:27.920 Yeah, so go ahead there, Well, I was just gonna ask, So, 1030 00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:30.960 at that point in time, did you guys become mostly 1031 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.239 focused in Afghanistan or Iraq? Or were you switching off 1032 00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:36.480 or did you and CAG kind of like split the 1033 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.159 split it down the middle. 1034 00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:42.920 Initially? And this is you know, my experience with the 1035 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:45.320 CAG guys has been fantastic. I still have very close 1036 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.280 friends that that I served there with at a squadron, 1037 00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.599 and I used to hear like, you know, like, ah, 1038 00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.199 fuck those guys. And what I think it actually was 1039 00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:55.280 is at the higher levels, when people are starting to 1040 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:59.079 argue for missions and budget relevance that probably exists, right, 1041 00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.719 I didn't experience that shit at all. At the operation. 1042 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:04.519 They were fucking awesome. They just did. They were They 1043 00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.480 were like team guys, but they wore an army uniform. 1044 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.199 They were like defined by our similarities, not by our difference. 1045 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:12.360 Yeah. 1046 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:14.599 I never got a lick of like pushback, Like we 1047 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:16.119 went down there and did a full work up with 1048 00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:18.599 them before we deployed with them, and we would. 1049 00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:20.440 Host them up. It's like it was awesome. 1050 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:26.199 The higher ups, though, I think, saw Iraq as probably 1051 00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:30.039 a more fruitful tree, so uh KAG for a bit 1052 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:33.519 focused on Iraq, and Dymnic for a bit focused on Afghanistan. 1053 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:36.800 And again I think sander hate heads prevailed and they 1054 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:39.840 realized it's probably not a good idea to geographically specialize 1055 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:41.760 like that, So we started doing cross training deployments and 1056 00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:42.880 that's how we kind of bridge the. 1057 00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:48.360 Gap nice As the war evolved and these units evolved 1058 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:50.360 too with it. I mean, could you kind of tell 1059 00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:52.960 us a little bit about how things that you know, 1060 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:55.840 you mentioned the intensity of ratcheting up, and how did 1061 00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:58.360 how did the unit change, how did the culture change, 1062 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:01.599 and how did the war itself change from your guys' perspective. 1063 00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.719 So I left the command in late two thousand and six, 1064 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:09.000 so I can't speak to any cultural changes past that. 1065 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:13.360 What I would say is that the theaters of war 1066 00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:18.320 matured probably just as much as the units themselves. I mean, 1067 00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:20.800 I don't know of a unit in two thousand and 1068 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.000 one that was like steeped in combat experience. I mean, 1069 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.199 there just really wasn't. And then you know, you start 1070 00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:29.280 talking like two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, 1071 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.400 twenty ten, there were units that were I mean, it 1072 00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:35.480 was their full time job to be over there, and 1073 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:38.000 I think that more than anything, they just got really 1074 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.559 efficient at doing their job. I think that's one of 1075 00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:42.920 the nice things about being at the jaysock levels. You 1076 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:44.840 can carve away all the bullshit and get rid of 1077 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:46.800 what doesn't work. You still have to deal with bureaucracy 1078 00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:50.320 and all that stuff, but like the support to operator 1079 00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:53.000 ratio is oftentimes like twelve to fifteen to one that 1080 00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:56.280 just doesn't exist, you know, at a conventional unit for 1081 00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:59.559 a variety of reasons. But you know, there were guys 1082 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:03.159 who had so much combat experience, which I often wonder 1083 00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:05.199 whether or not that's like a good thing or a 1084 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:08.679 bad thing. I have, you know, pretty deep conversations with friends, like, 1085 00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:11.880 you know, should combat exposure actually be limited? Is there 1086 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:14.400 a point where you start going down the backslope of 1087 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.639 that and it's irrecoverable? 1088 00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:17.119 You know. 1089 00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:19.079 Again, I don't know if there's a right or a 1090 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:20.639 wrong answer to that, but I think it's an interesting 1091 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:26.480 thought experiment. But they just were so experienced with what 1092 00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:30.159 they did. Their ability to make real time decisions on 1093 00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:34.360 target was like nothing I've ever seen the uh. 1094 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:39.280 I mean, I know, and if in Afghanistan particularly Iraq too. 1095 00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:44.119 But the enemy was also evolving quickly and being able 1096 00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:46.639 to pick up our you know, when they put charms 1097 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.000 on the cell phones that will let them know that 1098 00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:51.320 their cell phone is being paid. Like, they were getting 1099 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.719 better at at knowing what our TTPs were and how 1100 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:56.639 we were developing targets and things like that. 1101 00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:59.360 Yeah, we're not the only people who do AARs. Yeah, 1102 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:01.960 you know, for every drop hole that we've all been 1103 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.639 a part of hundreds of times, they send an interviewee 1104 00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:06.800 out there as well. And that's why, you know, I 1105 00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:10.280 mean not to talk about how buildings and rooms are cleared, 1106 00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:11.880 but what I can tell you is when I was 1107 00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:15.039 going through Green Team, they were still teaching hostage rescue clearance, 1108 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.320 where you're running into every threat, you know, every door, 1109 00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:19.840 you're just running in there. And now, I mean, there 1110 00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:22.639 better be a fucking compelling reason for me to cross 1111 00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:24.519 the threshold of a door, because there's ways you can 1112 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:27.400 do externally that reduced the risk of the person who's 1113 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:30.920 doing the clearance. That came about though, because people were 1114 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:33.800 starting to get their asses handed to them in the 1115 00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:36.920 corners of rooms where you had the tactical disadvantage for 1116 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.280 a moment when you were making entry. 1117 00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:42.239 Yeah. Yeah, during that time frame, is all of this 1118 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:44.039 is happening, I mean there are they Are there any 1119 00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:47.280 particular significant operations to stand out in your mind, Either 1120 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.639 things went really wrong or things went really well and 1121 00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.079 you were like, hell, yeah, that's how you doped. 1122 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:52.320 Yeah. 1123 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:56.159 No, I mean my career was pretty much down the 1124 00:54:56.159 --> 00:54:59.440 middle of the road. I mean I was I I 1125 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:03.360 don't have an the super sexy stories to tell, which 1126 00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:05.360 I think is probably you know, it's as equally as 1127 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:09.000 good or bad. You know, Like a lot of times 1128 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:11.239 people are like, oh, I mean, why does that guy 1129 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:13.079 have a silver Star or Navy Cross. I'm like, well, 1130 00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:14.719 let me tell you about the guys who died in 1131 00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:17.440 the occurrents of him getting that. Like most of those 1132 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:20.159 awards and stories are tied to your friends die, things 1133 00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:25.119 going de'strophically wrong, and people displaying incredible amounts of heroism 1134 00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:28.119 and courage because they had to, not because they wanted to. 1135 00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:31.880 So yeah, I mean it just you know, I did 1136 00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.119 the deployments that I was asked to do, I did 1137 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.280 the operations that came up for our time period, did 1138 00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:39.039 my time there, and then moved on with my career. 1139 00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:41.400 You know, you did mention that there were some times 1140 00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:43.480 where you'd able to or the unit I should say, 1141 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.840 was able to, like swipe a suicide vest cell off 1142 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:49.840 the face of the map. I mean that must have 1143 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:53.000 been both the amount of intelligence that goes into prepping 1144 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.119 a target like that and then you guys actually action 1145 00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:57.079 in it must have been a pretty big deal. At 1146 00:55:57.079 --> 00:55:57.400 the time. 1147 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.920 Well, we had really good enablers, you know, the J 1148 00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:03.960 two or S two or N two, depending on what 1149 00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:05.679 you know code you want to use, which is the 1150 00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.360 Intelligence department. They when they do their job, well, it 1151 00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:12.199 makes the guys on targets, it's their job is pretty easy. 1152 00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:14.840 You know. Knocking down the wrong door day after day 1153 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.320 after day or night after night after night sucks. Hitting 1154 00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:20.800 the correct target the first time and actually having a 1155 00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:23.960 measurable impact it feels a lot better, for sure, and 1156 00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:25.760 all of that stuff though, And that's one of the 1157 00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:29.800 things that I really hate about the publicity in general 1158 00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:34.039 when it comes to military operations, like it just all 1159 00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:37.800 the enabling personnel that actually make the sausage, that actually 1160 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.199 allow all this stuff to happen, they never get their 1161 00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:40.760 time in the light. 1162 00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:46.039 That sucks. Yeah, absolutely true. Although logistics guys, the guys 1163 00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:49.239 the mechanics who repair the aircraft and yeah, you don't hear. 1164 00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:51.239 Somebody that shit, I'm not out there throwing wrenches on 1165 00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:53.679 a helicopter, like come on when it's one. 1166 00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:59.119 Hundred and five degrees outside and yeah, yeah, so you 1167 00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:02.079 you'll left the unit, or in two thousand and six 1168 00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:04.920 you said you left the unit, and what happened at 1169 00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:05.440 that point in. 1170 00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:09.239 Time, went to the West coast and did kind of 1171 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:11.519 like a rehab tour as a BUZZ instructor for eighteen 1172 00:57:11.559 --> 00:57:14.559 months and that's where I picked up my commission and 1173 00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:18.079 then went to Team three for my final operational deployment 1174 00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:19.880 in twenty ten to Afghanistan. 1175 00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:22.599 So rehab tour, you got injured? 1176 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:26.400 Yeah, I got shot actually with KAG with a squadron 1177 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:27.280 on a target in Iraq. 1178 00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:32.400 Can you tell us or are you comfortable telling us 1179 00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.199 about that operation? 1180 00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:35.800 Again, it was like down the middle of the road. 1181 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:38.800 I think we were going after like a kidnapping cell. 1182 00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:46.960 We were using sensors to try to triangulate somebody, and 1183 00:57:47.239 --> 00:57:49.119 you know, sometimes you get to walk around, you have 1184 00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.360 some noise and you're trying to locate somebody. Me eah, 1185 00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.400 sometimes you know, as sneaky as you think you are. 1186 00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:56.760 So we came back and retraced our steps and it's like, 1187 00:57:56.840 --> 00:57:59.039 oh shit, the building that now has the lights on 1188 00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:00.760 is the building that we need to go into. And 1189 00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:05.360 sometimes people have the tactical advantage on you. And you know, 1190 00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:07.159 I spent years like what did I do wrong? Like 1191 00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:09.960 how did I not see that particular person? And the 1192 00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:12.559 reality is like I didn't do anything wrong. It's just, 1193 00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:15.440 you know, it's just the way that it was. But again, 1194 00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:18.079 like it wasn't anything like I got dropped. I got 1195 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:23.039 shot from like I don't know, fifteen feet away, maybe 1196 00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:25.199 the AK round and the hip like flat on my back, 1197 00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:28.719 Like there's no like crawling through sixty link and grenade 1198 00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:32.159 pins like saving Private Ryan story. It's like that sucked. 1199 00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:34.760 I thought I was gonna die. It was horrendously painful. 1200 00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:37.639 I was one of I think eight guys who got 1201 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:39.800 injured on that target. I mean there were little birds 1202 00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:41.880 coming in picking people, taking them to the green zone. 1203 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:44.440 I got put into a bradley and driven there, So 1204 00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:47.360 that shows you how much more substantially injured other people 1205 00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:50.119 were than myself. Met it backed out of the country 1206 00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:51.639 and like you know, had to figure out the rest 1207 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:54.159 of my career from there. And it's like I wish 1208 00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:56.480 there was a sexy story behind it, but I mean 1209 00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:58.159 I picture. 1210 00:58:57.880 --> 00:59:00.880 In my mind. I remember being in to read just 1211 00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:04.199 as a liaison arranger who had taken AK round to 1212 00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:06.880 the hip and they made like an epoxy like three 1213 00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:09.400 D printed sort of thing of what his hip looked 1214 00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:12.639 like and the ball socket just exploded. And I mean, 1215 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:16.920 that's like a pretty substantial injury you're talking about. I 1216 00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:17.480 got lucky. 1217 00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:19.559 It missed my femur by about a quarter of an 1218 00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:25.119 inch and it just fried my ssiatic nerve. So my 1219 00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:27.679 actual main complaint when I got to the hospital is 1220 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:29.960 that it felt like my ankle was just being smashed 1221 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.119 on with a sledgehammer. So they were very like gingerly 1222 00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:35.679 cut my shoe off, you know, and the X ray 1223 00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:36.880 and the like, what the fuck is wrong with you? 1224 00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:39.239 Your foot's fine. I was like, fuck you, my foot 1225 00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:43.239 is not fine. And so for me like that, don't 1226 00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.519 get me wrong, Like getting shot didn't feel awesome. It 1227 00:59:45.559 --> 00:59:47.840 felt like like a nine inch nail sticking out of 1228 00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:51.079 a baseball bat let Jose Cansenko in the middle of 1229 00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:54.360 the steroid years, wind up and take a swing at you. 1230 00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:57.880 But the nerve pain was was by far worse and 1231 00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:01.960 still problematic. I have definitely reduced sensitivity and the ankle 1232 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:05.760 stability in my left foot to this day. So I 1233 01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:09.639 got lucky from those terms. Yeah, if it had hit 1234 01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:13.159 the bone, I mean, who I mean, who knows? You 1235 01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:14.719 guys know as well as I do. I mean, but 1236 01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:16.800 it was actually the first thought that went through my 1237 01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:18.800 head the number of times that I had been told 1238 01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:22.239 that you can bleed out into the quad space of 1239 01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:24.480 your body if you get like an internal bleed for 1240 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:27.800 moral bleed inside of like contained like that was my 1241 01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:29.760 first thought. I was like, well, I probably have a 1242 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:30.440 few minutes. 1243 01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:34.840 Left yeah before yeah, yeah, it's a fast bleed if 1244 01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:40.480 if it's not addressed. So so you you get netevac 1245 01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:43.719 and a Bradley. How long was it before they got 1246 01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.920 you back to the States or did you go to 1247 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:48.039 launch stool first, or like, how did that? 1248 01:00:48.039 --> 01:00:50.559 I went to lawn stool first, checked myself out, and 1249 01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:53.559 flew Delta home to New York where the command sent 1250 01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:55.039 a plane up and picked me up. So I was 1251 01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:04.039 home in three and half days. Shit, yeah wow? 1252 01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:06.320 And then what was the rehab process like for you? 1253 01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:09.960 They'd be like, let us know an you feel better? 1254 01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:14.400 It was early I mean fuck, it was two thousand 1255 01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.039 and five. There wasn't a lot of people who were 1256 01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:18.920 rolling around that were injured. I went to the Naval 1257 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:21.000 Hospital in Portsmouth, Virginia. 1258 01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:22.199 I was having a. 1259 01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:27.480 Interaction with the drugs that they had me on, and 1260 01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:29.920 my sister, who was going through a nursing school at 1261 01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:31.719 the time, actually identified it. But I was sitting there 1262 01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:33.400 with like a resting heart rate of one point fifty 1263 01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:37.920 sweating headache. And I go to the Portsmouth Naval Hospital 1264 01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:40.639 and I check into like the E three Corman and 1265 01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:42.039 he goes, what are you doing here? I was like, well, 1266 01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:45.239 I have a gunshot wound to my hip and it 1267 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:48.039 really fucking hurts. And he pauses and he looks at 1268 01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:53.639 me and he says, self inflicted. That's that's where we 1269 01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:57.159 were in the war. You know, there's this whole thing 1270 01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:00.000 going on, the War on Terror. Yeah, but they don't 1271 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:03.480 you know people as you know the Portsmouth Naval Hospital 1272 01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.000 going to see the answer is almost one yeah. 1273 01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:08.039 Yeah, so you're kind of on your own as far 1274 01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:11.000 as like physical rehab and all that. I was, and 1275 01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:11.480 it sucked. 1276 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.039 Yeah, And I'm glad that they have very robust systems. Now. 1277 01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:18.400 I wish that I had had them at that time, 1278 01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:19.239 but it is what it is. 1279 01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:23.039 Yeah. So you go back out to the West Coast 1280 01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:25.199 and this is about the time you made the I 1281 01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:26.719 don't know what the Navy term is the green and 1282 01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:27.519 Gold jump. 1283 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:30.800 Right, Yeah, well, I mean, what the hell do they 1284 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:32.760 call it? It would be green and gold probably probably 1285 01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:34.000 blew to gold for the Navy. 1286 01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:35.599 Yeah. 1287 01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:38.239 So I don't have a college degree, and I was 1288 01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:41.320 on my You know, in the Navy, the big jump 1289 01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.280 is six to seven on the unlisted side of the 1290 01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:46.159 house Petty officer first class to a Chief Petty Officer. 1291 01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:51.840 You have to fill though specific tours of duty along 1292 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:55.880 the way with leadership responsibilities for your record to be 1293 01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:58.920 considered for advancement. I was in the middle of my 1294 01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:02.519 leading pettioffs, which is required for advancement to E seven 1295 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:06.119 when I got shot, so they counted it as incomplete. 1296 01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:09.079 So I had my record submitted to the Chief Board 1297 01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:10.559 two years in a row and it was swiped off 1298 01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:12.360 the table. It's not even considered if you don't have 1299 01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.639 that wicket checked on the box. And I didn't even 1300 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:17.559 know why. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? 1301 01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:20.159 And I finally got some from somebody who was at 1302 01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:21.679 the board who was like, and they're not supposed to 1303 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:23.559 say anything to anybody, but the guy was like, Hey, 1304 01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:26.880 they're not even looking at your record because you don't 1305 01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:29.280 have your LPO tour. And I had just checked into 1306 01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:32.920 Buds where a guy had just started his LPO tour, 1307 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:34.719 which you have to hold for two years at a 1308 01:03:34.760 --> 01:03:37.320 short command before it will count. So I would have 1309 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:39.679 had to wait for him for two years, then do 1310 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:42.519 mine for two years, and then submit my package the 1311 01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:47.840 next year, so a five year like Hamster wheel. And 1312 01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:49.800 I started I wanted to stay in the military, and 1313 01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:51.760 I started doing some research and I found this program 1314 01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:54.519 called the LBL program, the Limited Duty Officer Program, which 1315 01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:57.400 is the same commissioning source for the seal community, at 1316 01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:59.400 least that the warrant officers go through as well. It's 1317 01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:02.800 the same package, same interview, just a different commissioning And 1318 01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:05.320 I did some research on it, realized you didn't need 1319 01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:07.079 to have a college degree. It was largely based off 1320 01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:08.960 the merits of your service record. Put a package in 1321 01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.880 and got picked up first look, awesome. 1322 01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:16.960 Wow, So with the what rate were you when you 1323 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:19.320 went in? Because we didn't talk about that at all, right. 1324 01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:22.639 OS, I was a radar scope operator. Because they made 1325 01:04:22.719 --> 01:04:25.000 the change. Now everybody is an S, which I think 1326 01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:28.400 stands for special operator, So being a seal is now 1327 01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:31.000 its own rate inside of the Navy. Before it was not. 1328 01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:33.280 You had to pick in boot camp if you qualified 1329 01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:35.199 for BUDS. I think there was a list of like 1330 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:39.320 twelve or sixteen rates or moss for Army and Marine 1331 01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:40.960 Corps folk that you could choose from that they would 1332 01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:43.239 allow you to select, and I picked mind based off 1333 01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:46.199 the shortest school, which would net me the fastest arrival 1334 01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:47.000 time at seal. 1335 01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:49.840 Training, right, and what you know, and like you said, 1336 01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:53.639 they've changed it now, but what a lot of like 1337 01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:56.559 One of the challenges for like seals and divers at 1338 01:04:56.559 --> 01:05:00.400 that time was that you had to compete. You didn't 1339 01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:03.559 get promoted as a seal, you got promoted as an OS, 1340 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.079 so you were competing against people who were doing the 1341 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.239 OS job across the Navy every time you wanted to 1342 01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:09.840 get promoted. 1343 01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:13.239 And I had to take the OS test. Right, So 1344 01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:17.599 OS is Operation Specialist, which is a radarscope operator. You 1345 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:21.239 do not want me looking at a radar scope. I 1346 01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:23.280 don't know how to use one. The only time I've 1347 01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:25.960 ever seen a mock up of one was it OS 1348 01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:27.840 a school. And then I had to take all of 1349 01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:33.440 my advancement tests on questions based on that rate, which sucked. 1350 01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:36.920 Now with the limited duty officer, like you say, it's 1351 01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:38.719 sort of like a chief warn or whatever, where you 1352 01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:41.480 don't need to agree it, but it keeps you from 1353 01:05:41.519 --> 01:05:43.679 doing it. Does it keep you from being like a 1354 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:52.000 like a A what's the main the surface warfare, like 1355 01:05:52.039 --> 01:05:54.440 the surface warfare service warfare is just a segment. 1356 01:05:54.679 --> 01:05:57.519 So you are I don't know what they're called, but 1357 01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:01.239 like chaplains, right, they they're not they're not line officers. 1358 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:04.239 So in the Navy, if you want to have any 1359 01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:06.639 level as an officer, like if you want to have 1360 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:11.000 any input or ranking inside of like the tactical hierarchy, 1361 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:13.079 you have to have a star on your sleeve, meaning 1362 01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:16.719 you're a line officer. There are like chaplain is a 1363 01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:18.960 good example of one. They don't have a star on there, 1364 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:20.599 and I can't think off the top of my head 1365 01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:22.800 what they do have. But there is a delineation between 1366 01:06:22.840 --> 01:06:27.400 line officers and all other types of officers. Line officers 1367 01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:30.440 can fall into that chain of command in the positions 1368 01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:33.920 where you're making tactical decisions that non line officers cannot. 1369 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:39.960 So the LDO kept me inside of that line officer pathway, okay, okay, great. 1370 01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:44.760 And so your last deployment then was as an officer, yes, okay, 1371 01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:47.360 could you tell us a little bit about that, I 1372 01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:51.880 mean you're respect to was it Team three Thingshan? The Afghanistan? 1373 01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:54.239 Yeah, most of the time was spent in the Navahar 1374 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.719 province of Afghanistan. It was awesome. I was the only 1375 01:06:57.760 --> 01:06:59.679 person in that task unit who had ever set foot 1376 01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:03.519 in that and as an officer, I spent my time 1377 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:06.639 carrying around a three hundred woe meg and a javelin 1378 01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:07.880 and shooting them both at people. 1379 01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:11.199 So not the traditional officer job. 1380 01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:14.000 No, not at all, and it was fucking awesome. 1381 01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:16.519 We were I mean, were you with a platoon at 1382 01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:17.039 this point? 1383 01:07:17.639 --> 01:07:20.920 Yeah, So I went over there and there was an 1384 01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:23.119 officer whose wife was getting ready to get birth, so 1385 01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:25.079 I did a little bit of filling in for him 1386 01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:28.199 for the first two months, then hopped in between the 1387 01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:31.880 two operational platoons as the operations officer. But because I 1388 01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:33.599 was the only one qualified on the javelin, they all 1389 01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:35.119 wanted me to go with them every time they went 1390 01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:36.719 out there, because you can reach out and touch somebody 1391 01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:38.960 with that thing. So I got to pick, you know, 1392 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.320 the position that I wanted to sit in. And I 1393 01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:43.880 had been doing terrain observation and study at that time 1394 01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:45.719 for a long time. So let's just say I had 1395 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:48.440 some very choice vantage points that had a lot of 1396 01:07:48.519 --> 01:07:49.719 overlapping fields of fire. 1397 01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:54.760 And how did the war evolve from you know, you 1398 01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:58.159 were there early on the cars I deployment. But I mean, now, 1399 01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:01.280 this is what are we talking about two thousand and eight, 1400 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:05.119 twenty ten. Okay, how had the war changed? From your perspective? 1401 01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.519 It was getting far more constrained for some reasons that 1402 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.039 I agree with and other ones that I have a 1403 01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:14.760 harder time paletting. You know, right, you know, right before 1404 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:16.960 I got there, they came down with the no night 1405 01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:20.079 rates guidance, and then another thing that was being really 1406 01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:22.359 restricted was your ability to call casts or close air 1407 01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:25.239 support because they had just dropped a bomb on that 1408 01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:28.520 school bus that was full of a wedding party, and 1409 01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:32.840 you know, those things they have consequences. But you know, 1410 01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:35.600 the guidance at the time was, hey, no more night rates, 1411 01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:38.479 so we're going to take your technological advantage and completely 1412 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:41.720 strip it from you. And then the cast became an issue, 1413 01:08:41.840 --> 01:08:44.359 especially if some people that you needed to leverage cast 1414 01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:46.840 against got to structures. They would not let you level 1415 01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:53.840 the structure. You know, people always bitched about those ros. 1416 01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:56.680 My thoughts on ROS is, they defined for me pretty 1417 01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:58.520 clearly my left and right limits, and it's for me 1418 01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:01.520 to figure out how to navigate and operate inside of 1419 01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:03.600 those the maximum of my ability. So That's what I 1420 01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:05.920 focused on because I'm not going to change you know, 1421 01:09:05.960 --> 01:09:08.760 the cg's guidance on you know, literally you had to 1422 01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:11.479 sign you know, the cast statement and the night rate statement. 1423 01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:15.960 Partner force was starting to get pushed on us a 1424 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.520 lot more, and then the ratio started going a lot higher, 1425 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:20.600 you know, like one to six to one to three 1426 01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:22.760 to one to one, and it's like, hey man, we're 1427 01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:25.079 in the desert in the summer, in helicopters that can 1428 01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:27.840 hold eight people, Like, what do you actually want us 1429 01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:30.600 to be able to accomplish here? So complications, but again, 1430 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:32.800 it's not your job to sit there and bitch about 1431 01:09:32.800 --> 01:09:34.560 the problems presented to you. It's your job to sit 1432 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:36.079 there and figure out how you're going to work inside 1433 01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:38.199 of those problem sets, which is what we did. But 1434 01:09:38.279 --> 01:09:41.279 it was definitely changing. It was far more constrained, and 1435 01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:43.239 again for some reasons that I would agree with and 1436 01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:45.600 others that I would probably push back on, but it 1437 01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:48.039 was what it was, but definitely a different war. That 1438 01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:50.000 same thing was happening in Iraq as well too. 1439 01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:52.720 From my understanding, is that why you fired off so 1440 01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:55.000 many javelins because you weren't able to use casts the 1441 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.600 way that you guys wanted. 1442 01:09:56.359 --> 01:10:00.880 To Now the javelin I ended up using because so 1443 01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:04.279 we were at a fob in nw Bahar that we 1444 01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:06.880 literally built like we were staying with the ANA and 1445 01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:09.760 A and P in their compound, which, let. 1446 01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:11.119 Me tell you, that's a fucking circus. 1447 01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:17.319 So we built a we built a fob just outside 1448 01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.159 of their area, and we had taken I believe we 1449 01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:24.640 had taken over Nabahar. God was it a team guy 1450 01:10:24.640 --> 01:10:28.239 element or was it an oda? Either way, there was 1451 01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:30.560 some javelin missiles that were left there, but there was 1452 01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:33.159 no clue which is the firing unit you need to 1453 01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:36.159 hook to the missile. And I'm like, going through the 1454 01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:38.039 armory one day, I was like, well, what are these things? 1455 01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:40.199 I'm like, holy shit, I know how to shoot these. 1456 01:10:40.840 --> 01:10:44.319 And our enemy, like we've talked about, understands the effective 1457 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:46.680 range of both five five six and seven six two 1458 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:49.520 and depending on what you had which they could visually 1459 01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:53.119 identify at that time and audibly tell, they would sit 1460 01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:55.760 outside of that range. You know three, You know a 1461 01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:58.359 PKM which is basically a belt fed three hundred wind 1462 01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:01.079 bag lobbing that it in on you when you have 1463 01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:04.399 an M four to respond with sucks damn. They know 1464 01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:07.560 that you can't hit them. So it was awesome because 1465 01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:10.880 it totally surprised them. And it was I took a 1466 01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:14.479 half shell ballistic helmet and traded it straight up to 1467 01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:18.159 an ODA weapons guy for a clue, and he was like, 1468 01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:20.800 that's I swear to god, I'm like all fucking trading. 1469 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.399 He's like, no problem, and so I just started to 1470 01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:25.800 launching these fucking missiles of people, and it was great 1471 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:27.239 because they had no idea. 1472 01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:29.399 The effective range and the. 1473 01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:32.119 Top down attack is just spectacular when people try to 1474 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:34.560 hide behind rocks, that's awesome. 1475 01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:38.239 So so how did I want to know how this happens? 1476 01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:41.880 You're just strolling around in the ODIA armory or you're 1477 01:11:41.920 --> 01:11:45.119 just strolling around and you go, oh, look a javelin 1478 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:46.399 right now. 1479 01:11:46.439 --> 01:11:48.760 So it was in the armory that was left at Nabahar. 1480 01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:49.359 It was part of that. 1481 01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:52.079 The missiles were part of the munitions, okay, but what 1482 01:11:52.119 --> 01:11:54.479 I knew I didn't have was the clue. So then 1483 01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:57.319 once I realized that I had the munition, I'm like, okay, 1484 01:11:58.000 --> 01:11:59.199 now I need the magic piece. 1485 01:11:59.319 --> 01:12:00.000 I need the clue. 1486 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.039 So every time we would go to like a base 1487 01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:05.399 where I knew there was an ODA because the teams 1488 01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:07.520 did not have any clues. I knew it was going 1489 01:12:07.560 --> 01:12:09.560 to have to come from the army, so I would 1490 01:12:09.560 --> 01:12:11.960 go find the odea. I'm like, hey, what's OK. Guys, 1491 01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.079 guys got any clues? Can I have one of your clues? 1492 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:17.880 And I finally found what do you get? What's the army? 1493 01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:19.399 Is it a bravo? A weapons guy? 1494 01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:19.920 Yeah? Yeah? 1495 01:12:20.760 --> 01:12:23.199 He pitched it to his his O three and the 1496 01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:24.840 guy's like, I don't give a fuck, those things are 1497 01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:28.520 collecting us. I'd straight up five hundred dollars half show 1498 01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:30.880 helmet for probably a fifty thousand dollars clue, and we 1499 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.399 were off. 1500 01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:35.960 And running, launching mechanism of the javelin. 1501 01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:38.960 Yeah, you connected. So you end up looking through the 1502 01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:43.319 warhead and the final firing sequence, you're actually looking through 1503 01:12:43.319 --> 01:12:45.319 the warhead because you have to lock the warhead and 1504 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:46.600 then once you do and you fire it and it's 1505 01:12:46.600 --> 01:12:47.359 a fire and forget. 1506 01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:52.560 And how many javelins would you say that you and 1507 01:12:52.840 --> 01:12:55.000 you employed during your time there? 1508 01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:56.880 I think it was like fourteen. 1509 01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.640 Those are eighty thousand dollars apiece. I will mind you, 1510 01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:02.279 but taxpayer's money well spent. 1511 01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:05.720 Yeah, it was awesome. 1512 01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:09.279 Yeah. I mean, as people have seen, you know, in Ukraine, 1513 01:13:09.279 --> 01:13:14.640 it's an incredibly effective weapon. So Andy, you come back 1514 01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:19.479 from that, what's what's your kind of career, what's going 1515 01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:22.039 on for you at this point? You know, you're a 1516 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:24.119 pretty seasoned seal at this point in time. 1517 01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:27.920 I realized on that deployment that that was probably my 1518 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:32.079 last operational lap around the track. I was having some 1519 01:13:32.119 --> 01:13:35.399 serious issues with my ankle, especially carrying weight, and I 1520 01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:37.199 rolled it to a degree a few times where I 1521 01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:39.680 actually considered it calling in a metavac for myself, Like 1522 01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:41.399 I was getting to the point where I was on 1523 01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:45.199 the battlefield probably the biggest liability from a physical perspective. 1524 01:13:45.199 --> 01:13:48.199 So I knew that it was unlikely that my operational 1525 01:13:48.199 --> 01:13:50.399 career was going to continue. And then I got back 1526 01:13:50.439 --> 01:13:53.319 and I talked to the officer detailer and she's like, oh, 1527 01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:55.159 that tour didn't count either, so you need to do 1528 01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:56.800 this one and then this one and then this one. 1529 01:13:56.840 --> 01:14:01.279 I'm like, what the fuck? And so I was just 1530 01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:02.640 going to get out of the military. I was like, 1531 01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:04.000 fuck you guys, and I was just going to leave 1532 01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:05.800 the military. I think it was at like the fifteen 1533 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:11.000 year mark with nothing and on my discharge physical, the 1534 01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:13.680 doctor wouldn't sign it, and he ended up sending me 1535 01:14:13.720 --> 01:14:18.560 to Walter Reed to Nico, which does like this robust dive, 1536 01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:23.479 deep dive into your medical history, hundreds of pages of documentation, 1537 01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:26.439 and it was that documentation that led to my medical 1538 01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:29.079 retirement as opposed to just walking away from the military 1539 01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:30.239 and NICO. 1540 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:32.840 When was that stood up because that hadn't been around 1541 01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:34.560 for a really long time at. 1542 01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:35.720 It it was. 1543 01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:43.920 I went there twenty eleven, twenty twelve, it was. 1544 01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:47.279 Probably twenty ten. Yeah, it wasn't running new but it 1545 01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:48.119 was New Earth. 1546 01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:52.039 Yeah. Yeah, and it really they kind of saved you 1547 01:14:52.640 --> 01:14:54.439 from yeah, like. 1548 01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:56.119 You know intentionally, that's not what I was there for. 1549 01:14:56.279 --> 01:14:58.680 But the doctor was like, I'm not signed. It's like 1550 01:14:58.720 --> 01:15:01.039 anybody I never went to medic Yeah, you know, I 1551 01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:04.600 was even like my even getting shot. I think it 1552 01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:06.640 was like five pages in my medical record. 1553 01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:08.319 Wow. 1554 01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.880 The guy's just like, no, you're not. I'm not fucking 1555 01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:14.439 citing that. I was so pissed at him too, I'm like, bitch, 1556 01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:16.880 I got plans. I got He's just like, well, you're 1557 01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:19.159 going to cancel him? And I was so furious. And 1558 01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:23.159 we have reconnected I mean, he's awesome. And now it's like, hey, dude, 1559 01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:25.880 I owe you a lot because you did me an 1560 01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:26.520 incredible solt. 1561 01:15:26.600 --> 01:15:29.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. 1562 01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:33.239 So you get medically retired, I mean, what were your 1563 01:15:33.239 --> 01:15:34.880 plans when you when you left the Navy. 1564 01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:38.119 I was already double dipping a little bit on the 1565 01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:41.800 weekends and working for CrossFit, So I had found that 1566 01:15:42.039 --> 01:15:46.039 methodology of exercising when I was rehabing myself. And the 1567 01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:48.439 company was founded in my hometown in Santa Cruz, like 1568 01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:50.760 eight blocks away from my parents' house, so I randomly 1569 01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:53.359 met the founders and they were at a time where 1570 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:56.359 they were really rapidly growing. So I had been working 1571 01:15:56.359 --> 01:15:58.359 on the weekends and I had the opportunity to just 1572 01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:01.159 rotate over and become a full employee with them, which 1573 01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:05.199 is what I was planning on doing absent the medical retirement. 1574 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:07.199 And so that just delayed that a little bit, but 1575 01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:08.920 I was still able to just in my off time 1576 01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:10.319 continue to work for them. So it was a pretty 1577 01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:13.960 seamless transition from one career, so I'll say the next job, 1578 01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:15.840 it certainly wasn't a career working for them. 1579 01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:19.920 And before we move out of your military career because 1580 01:16:20.239 --> 01:16:23.039 I we can't really watch the chat so much, but 1581 01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:24.760 a couple of things will come up that I think 1582 01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:29.600 we have to hear. A candem jump with a translator. 1583 01:16:31.199 --> 01:16:34.000 That is a very long story that involves me trying 1584 01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:37.600 to kill somebody who was vomiting on me most of 1585 01:16:37.640 --> 01:16:40.319 the way down and trying to steer the canopy absent 1586 01:16:40.399 --> 01:16:44.439 my permission or consent. Yeah, that's a story for We 1587 01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:44.760 don't have. 1588 01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:45.399 Enough time for that. 1589 01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:48.439 It was a horrendous jumping experience in my life. 1590 01:16:49.319 --> 01:16:52.600 And then monkeys stealing your gear. 1591 01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:56.319 Yeah, yeah, that was pre nine eleven. I mean we 1592 01:16:56.359 --> 01:16:58.399 would train in the jungle. We would go to Thailand 1593 01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:00.880 and the Philippines and we would do like jungle exercises 1594 01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:05.079 and uh, you know the guys who had been there 1595 01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:08.760 before like, hey, make sure you secure your backpack because 1596 01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:11.239 there's shit out here that's curious, that has opposable funds 1597 01:17:11.359 --> 01:17:13.119 that can get inside of your stuff. And I woke 1598 01:17:13.199 --> 01:17:16.319 up and there was a fucking monkey that had gone 1599 01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:19.319 into my backpack and had taken my GPS and was 1600 01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:21.800 up in a tree with it. And I traded him. 1601 01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:29.199 For five minus. That's round. That's hilarious. It wasn't at 1602 01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:29.560 the time. 1603 01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:30.880 I was. I was like, all I could think of 1604 01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:33.199 is the time was I am so fucked for the 1605 01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:35.319 paperwork that I have to do to get a new GPS, 1606 01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:37.000 because again it's pre nine eleven. 1607 01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:38.279 Like, right, it's not the plugger. 1608 01:17:38.439 --> 01:17:40.399 It was like a plugger or a mugger, Like there's 1609 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:45.520 old big yeah, yeah, a lotofes and you're gonna yeah signature. 1610 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:47.720 It's not like that one hundred and fifty dollars garmen 1611 01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:51.039 that guys were getting later on. It was like the military. 1612 01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:53.520 Secret to get like two of these things for the 1613 01:17:53.640 --> 01:17:56.039 entire platoon, and it was like a signature item. And 1614 01:17:56.039 --> 01:17:57.560 I'm looking up at a monkey that has it. 1615 01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:59.239 And you're going to go to your chief and say, 1616 01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:00.680 a monkey stole my plugger. 1617 01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:04.000 Yeah, so yeah, I saw that one in the field. 1618 01:18:04.239 --> 01:18:09.960 Yeah. So how did so you got to at least 1619 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.479 some bit of a buffer there when you transitioned out 1620 01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:16.760 of the military getting into CrossFit. How did how did 1621 01:18:16.760 --> 01:18:18.600 post service life treat you? I mean, how did how 1622 01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:22.039 did you adapt to a radical change in lifestyle? 1623 01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:25.680 I mean it was hard, but not that hard at 1624 01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:28.119 the same time. I mean I constantly tried to remind 1625 01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:30.039 myself that what you do is not who you are. 1626 01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:33.800 And if I don't care who, if you join at 1627 01:18:33.800 --> 01:18:36.520 eighteen and you have like the longest military career ID 1628 01:18:36.520 --> 01:18:39.000 say you do thirty years, you still have a lot 1629 01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:40.800 of runway left in front of you to get out. 1630 01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:44.159 And I have found that the people who the most 1631 01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:49.439 closely associate their occupation with their personality or their sense 1632 01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:51.600 of who they are have the hardest time letting go. 1633 01:18:52.199 --> 01:18:54.279 So I took the job very seriously, but I tried 1634 01:18:54.319 --> 01:18:56.960 not to take myself too seriously and remind myself that 1635 01:18:56.960 --> 01:18:58.720 it's just an occupation. At the end of the day. 1636 01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:02.239 I miss the guys. I miss the fact that sometimes 1637 01:19:02.239 --> 01:19:03.960 you could make the news, and I was stuck watching 1638 01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:10.079 the news. But you can figure out ways to challenge 1639 01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:13.840 yourself and do things that are enriching and rewarding. Probably 1640 01:19:13.840 --> 01:19:16.119 not to the degree of going overseas and going on 1641 01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:19.520 target and trying to make a tactical difference, but you know, 1642 01:19:20.039 --> 01:19:22.479 you're fortunate that you ever got the chance to do 1643 01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:24.319 that in the first place. Most people would never even 1644 01:19:24.399 --> 01:19:28.239 understand what that's like. So fucking move on and find 1645 01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:30.000 out what's going to be next in your life. Because 1646 01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:32.399 otherwise you're going to be the dude at the VFW 1647 01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:36.399 that's talking about it happened thirty years ago. Probably most 1648 01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:38.760 of the stories that you're telling are totally made up, 1649 01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:42.079 or at the very least they have been expanded on 1650 01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:46.399 multiple times. And at the end of the day, nobody cares, 1651 01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:47.239 and they shouldn't. 1652 01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:51.119 The I mean, what was it for you? What did 1653 01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:53.840 you find that? What ways did you find a challenge 1654 01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:55.800 yourself that we're also meaningful for you? 1655 01:19:58.039 --> 01:20:01.319 I mean it's not hard, people, I mean, sit down 1656 01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:02.920 for five minutes and write a list of things that 1657 01:20:02.960 --> 01:20:04.760 you don't want to do, and then write a list 1658 01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:07.399 as to why. And most people are going to determine 1659 01:20:07.399 --> 01:20:08.840 that they don't want to do it because it's hard 1660 01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:11.399 or it scares them. That's where the most growth is 1661 01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:14.359 going to come from you as a person. So I 1662 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:17.800 enjoyed learning, and I actually look back on it. I 1663 01:20:17.840 --> 01:20:21.680 think special operations in general rewards people, and by that 1664 01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:26.039 I mean with either opportunities or advancement or you know, 1665 01:20:26.119 --> 01:20:30.039 just your chance to do your job more. It rewards 1666 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:32.760 people who who like to learn. I mean that's really 1667 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:34.600 all we were expected to do, was like, hey, here's 1668 01:20:34.600 --> 01:20:36.479 a brand new skill set, be as good of it 1669 01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:39.359 as possible. In five days, you have Roger that and 1670 01:20:39.399 --> 01:20:41.560 so you learn how to learn, and then you learn 1671 01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:43.560 that you really like new things like that. So I 1672 01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:47.159 played around with being a pilot. I owned a gym 1673 01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:50.399 for a while. I started doing public speaking. I became 1674 01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:52.960 a professional skydiver and bass trumper to see how far 1675 01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:55.439 I could take that stuff, which is what ended up 1676 01:20:55.520 --> 01:20:58.039 leading me to being on my first podcast, which ended 1677 01:20:58.119 --> 01:21:01.039 up leading me to get the idea. You know, somebody's like, hey, 1678 01:21:01.039 --> 01:21:03.279 you should start your own podcast. I'm like, okay, Fuck, 1679 01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:05.359 I don't know if I like the idea of like 1680 01:21:05.479 --> 01:21:09.520 putting my thoughts out there or having conversations, but maybe 1681 01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:12.119 I should explore that. And so I just continue to 1682 01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:15.159 try to challenge myself. It's not that hard. People try 1683 01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:17.000 to make it far more complex than it needs to be. 1684 01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:19.359 Can you get into that a little bit more? Because 1685 01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:20.960 I think there's a lot of people who know you 1686 01:21:21.039 --> 01:21:24.640 from you know, doing podcasts and public speaking. I could 1687 01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:26.479 you get a little bit deeper into like how that 1688 01:21:26.520 --> 01:21:28.079 came about, you know, I mean you said it was 1689 01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:29.760 kind of reluctantly in your case. 1690 01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:33.319 I if I would have before getting out of the military. 1691 01:21:33.319 --> 01:21:35.239 If I would have written down a hundred things that 1692 01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:36.720 I thought I was going to do with my life, 1693 01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:38.960 public speaking and a podcast would not have been on 1694 01:21:38.960 --> 01:21:41.039 that list. It was not even something I had considered. 1695 01:21:41.560 --> 01:21:43.520 And the first time I ever publicly spoke, I remember, 1696 01:21:43.560 --> 01:21:45.920 as a buddy of mine's company. He was like, hey, 1697 01:21:46.359 --> 01:21:48.199 you the place that you worked at was called a 1698 01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:50.800 seal team, right. I was like, yeah, he goes cool, 1699 01:21:51.399 --> 01:21:53.760 do you want to come talk to my business about teamwork? 1700 01:21:53.800 --> 01:21:55.600 Because it's like it's in the you know the name 1701 01:21:55.640 --> 01:21:57.239 of where you used to work, so obviously you know 1702 01:21:57.279 --> 01:22:00.840 a lot about it. Like, okay, I'll give it a swing, 1703 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:04.640 you know, for free. And then the second speech came 1704 01:22:04.680 --> 01:22:06.479 from somebody who was sitting in that audience who and 1705 01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:10.039 it just built over like years. I think I probably did, 1706 01:22:10.279 --> 01:22:12.960 I don't know shit, thirty free speeches before I ever 1707 01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:16.279 had the sack to be like, hey, I'm gonna here's 1708 01:22:16.319 --> 01:22:17.560 my fee. And I think my first team was like 1709 01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:20.600 five hundred bucks. I'm just like, nobody's ever been paid 1710 01:22:20.640 --> 01:22:21.560 as much money before? 1711 01:22:22.039 --> 01:22:22.199 Yow. 1712 01:22:23.479 --> 01:22:25.920 Yeah, but I had never. But also I had never 1713 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:28.920 done anything in my life where I had to try 1714 01:22:28.960 --> 01:22:30.880 to put a value to my own time, and that 1715 01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:35.279 shit's scary. Telling people what your time costs is scary 1716 01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:38.239 until you do it for a while and you realize 1717 01:22:38.239 --> 01:22:40.680 that the worst answer that you're gonna get is no. 1718 01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:42.800 And if they're gonna say no, you probably didn't want 1719 01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:44.720 to do it anyway. And you know what I mean, Like, 1720 01:22:44.960 --> 01:22:48.159 just go lean into the shit that you are not 1721 01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:50.720 comfortable with and you'll probably get a lot of growth 1722 01:22:50.720 --> 01:22:52.319 out of that. You'll get way more growth than you 1723 01:22:52.359 --> 01:22:54.359 will doubling down on stuff that you're already good at. 1724 01:22:55.880 --> 01:22:59.800 And the Queer Hot podcast, I mean, now you're like 1725 01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:03.000 a legit you know podcast, or you have people up 1726 01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:06.399 to your place in Montana, you're interviewing people. I tell 1727 01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:08.560 people what that podcast is about, because it's not just 1728 01:23:08.640 --> 01:23:09.680 military stuff either. 1729 01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.319 I don't know what it's about. I mean, it depends 1730 01:23:12.359 --> 01:23:15.359 on the guest. I My litmus test for a guest 1731 01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:16.479 is whether or not I think it would be an 1732 01:23:16.520 --> 01:23:20.239 interesting conversation. What I love about podcasting is you get 1733 01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:23.960 to sit across from somebody who is passionate about filling 1734 01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:27.960 the blank and you can learn about something like listening 1735 01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:31.000 to somebody talk about things that they are passionate about 1736 01:23:31.199 --> 01:23:34.840 is fascinating to me, and the opportunity to learn is 1737 01:23:34.880 --> 01:23:39.039 like it's unbelievable. Just ask questions and fucking listen. It's 1738 01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:41.840 not that hard. So it's provided a platform where I 1739 01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:43.520 can kind of pick and choose who I want to 1740 01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:47.800 at least present the opportunity to I do have quite 1741 01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:50.359 a few military people on just whether it's friends or connections, 1742 01:23:50.399 --> 01:23:52.079 and that is a large part of what I used 1743 01:23:52.079 --> 01:23:56.359 to do. But it's not certainly not like a requirement 1744 01:23:56.439 --> 01:23:58.840 to come on the show. I mean, I'll talk to 1745 01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:01.399 anybody who is passionate about something that I think is interesting. 1746 01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:06.399 What these different things that you went through, you know, 1747 01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:08.800 your time as a pilot. Now did you work as 1748 01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:10.720 a pilot for a while or was that just a. 1749 01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:15.720 So some of my duties inside acrossfit eventually became I 1750 01:24:15.800 --> 01:24:17.479 was the pilot for a CrossFit, and then I was 1751 01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:22.319 doing charter flying as well in a Gulf Stream, so 1752 01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:24.760 there was inside and outside across fit, and then it 1753 01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:28.399 became an issue of time. So I carved out, you know, 1754 01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:31.359 or carved away from an economic perspective, the one that 1755 01:24:31.399 --> 01:24:34.359 was providing the least benefit, which happened to be piloting 1756 01:24:34.399 --> 01:24:37.399 at the time, but yeah, I put my you know, 1757 01:24:37.560 --> 01:24:40.039 literal metaphorical hat in the ring for a bit. 1758 01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:43.439 When it came to aviation, that's fantastic. And then with 1759 01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:46.640 the skydiving, the base jumping, you've done some of the 1760 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:49.239 flying suit stuff, Like how did that evolve for you? 1761 01:24:50.399 --> 01:24:52.439 That was kind of just natural, you know, like inside 1762 01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:56.039 the skydiving there's a variety of different disciplines and some 1763 01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:57.760 of them really hooked people, and some of them have 1764 01:24:57.800 --> 01:25:00.840 really no interest in The wingsuit stuff came from a 1765 01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:04.640 buddy of mine. He was talking about trying to do 1766 01:25:04.760 --> 01:25:07.439 something to raise money for charity and he was like, oh, 1767 01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:09.960 there's what about this wingsuit stuff? And I looked into it. 1768 01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:12.560 I'm like, all right, I'll give that a try. And 1769 01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:14.239 most of the things that I have done in my 1770 01:25:14.279 --> 01:25:16.279 life have been on the suggestion of other people that 1771 01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:20.960 are more successful than myself, and especially if it's in 1772 01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:23.479 their wheelhouse, like, hey, this is what I've been doing 1773 01:25:23.479 --> 01:25:24.840 for a long time, and maybe you should look at 1774 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:26.520 doing this as well, because you seem like you'd be 1775 01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:29.079 pretty good at it. Like pay attention to those people, 1776 01:25:29.159 --> 01:25:31.560 you know, especially if they're an actual friend. They're probably 1777 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:33.199 telling you that for a reason. That's how I fell 1778 01:25:33.199 --> 01:25:37.720 into podcasting. But the wingsuiting stuff is what led me 1779 01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:39.840 to being on my first podcast, which is what led 1780 01:25:39.880 --> 01:25:41.680 me to you know, meeting guys like Joe who made 1781 01:25:41.680 --> 01:25:45.800 the suggestion that I started a podcast. Yeah, but none 1782 01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:47.960 of that had any architecture or plan to it. I 1783 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:49.119 was just making it up as I go. 1784 01:25:49.479 --> 01:25:52.439 Yeah, do you do you have a preference when it 1785 01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:56.079 comes to skydiving based jumping wingsuit like is there? Do 1786 01:25:56.119 --> 01:25:58.720 you have a passion for either of those more than 1787 01:25:58.720 --> 01:25:59.000 the other? 1788 01:25:59.079 --> 01:26:00.720 Well, fandom jumping, we know isn't your thing. 1789 01:26:00.840 --> 01:26:02.319 Yeah, tantam jumping may not be your thing. 1790 01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:04.439 I mean I've taken like fifteen hundred people for their 1791 01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:07.479 first tandem. It's fun to really, I only do it 1792 01:26:07.520 --> 01:26:10.079 now for friends and family. It's not what I want 1793 01:26:10.119 --> 01:26:11.520 to do for a living. I mean there are people 1794 01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:13.960 who are out there who literally make their living doing that. 1795 01:26:16.159 --> 01:26:19.680 Wingsuit skydiving is really fun, you know. Wingsuit based jumping 1796 01:26:19.720 --> 01:26:22.119 is also very fun, but the consequences are right in 1797 01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:24.840 front of your face, and the margins for air are 1798 01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:27.399 very tight, and I just don't have the desire to 1799 01:26:27.439 --> 01:26:29.439 stay current or competent enough to be able to do 1800 01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:30.039 that and I can just. 1801 01:26:29.960 --> 01:26:30.960 Go mess around in the sky. 1802 01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:34.800 Skydiving not risk free, but I can do it as 1803 01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:38.119 safely as humanly possible, and I'm not worried about the 1804 01:26:38.119 --> 01:26:38.720 long term. 1805 01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:43.359 Risk there, right, Yeah, and then your podcast, like how 1806 01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:46.319 did that start for you? What was you know the 1807 01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:52.159 obviously it's evolved, you know, like it's big and you're 1808 01:26:52.199 --> 01:26:55.119 well known, but you started from somewhere and how did 1809 01:26:55.159 --> 01:26:55.680 that start? 1810 01:26:57.039 --> 01:27:01.039 I was one of my skydiving sponsors was five eleven Tactical, 1811 01:27:01.760 --> 01:27:04.119 and I was working with one of their brand managers 1812 01:27:04.159 --> 01:27:06.840 at the time, and I had been on Rogan's podcast 1813 01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:08.680 and he had made the suggestion that I start my 1814 01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:13.159 own and the brand managers like, well, why don't we 1815 01:27:13.319 --> 01:27:15.119 get the gear for you to get started, and we 1816 01:27:15.159 --> 01:27:17.399 could like you know, presented by five eleven Tactical. So 1817 01:27:17.439 --> 01:27:19.600 they brought me by a very first kit which fit 1818 01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:22.199 instead of a small pelican case. There was no video. 1819 01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:25.159 It was two microphones on a stand. I was literally 1820 01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:27.479 using Rogue fitness weights to like hold them in place, 1821 01:27:27.520 --> 01:27:30.960 with a zoom in between. And it built from there too. 1822 01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:34.079 I think I changed the microphones out eventually got like 1823 01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:40.279 a sony handicam and just slowly and incrementally evolved over time. 1824 01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:42.920 So I think it's getting close to six or seven 1825 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:44.479 years at this point. I mean, I'm sitting in the 1826 01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:46.560 studio now, so I have a dedicated studio. I have 1827 01:27:46.560 --> 01:27:48.359 a guy who does the camera switching, like you guys 1828 01:27:48.359 --> 01:27:50.720 obviously have behind the scenes now doing that, you know, 1829 01:27:50.800 --> 01:27:56.760 the production level stuff, and just you know, it's everybody 1830 01:27:56.800 --> 01:27:59.079 likes to talk about overnight successes, and I have found 1831 01:27:59.119 --> 01:28:00.840 that they take somewhere but in five to ten. 1832 01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:02.000 Years, and people forget that. 1833 01:28:02.319 --> 01:28:02.520 Yeah. 1834 01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:05.319 Yeah, it's all just slow, incremental growth. 1835 01:28:05.960 --> 01:28:08.319 So now things are home and along though it seems andy, 1836 01:28:08.359 --> 01:28:09.960 and I mean I'm just kind of curious, like what 1837 01:28:09.960 --> 01:28:12.239 do you what's the next challenge for you? What's on 1838 01:28:12.279 --> 01:28:15.520 the horizon, the next thing that you want to take up. 1839 01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:18.560 Well, I just opened a brick and mortar actual business, 1840 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:21.399 the first ever endeavor in that route. So I opened 1841 01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:25.760 a Black Rifle coffee franchise here up in Callaspell, which 1842 01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:29.159 is it's wild. You know, it's a different type of investment, 1843 01:28:29.880 --> 01:28:35.279 you know, literally from a monetary perspective, emotionally physically, from 1844 01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:38.000 a bandwidth perspective, you know, kind of creating the culture 1845 01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:40.239 creating a team that goes along with that, staying out 1846 01:28:40.279 --> 01:28:46.840 of their way, letting the managers do their job. I 1847 01:28:46.880 --> 01:28:50.279 am trying to do more of what I like and 1848 01:28:50.600 --> 01:28:53.720 less of what I don't like. I have adopted the 1849 01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:56.479 philosophy that knows a much more powerful word than yes, 1850 01:28:57.600 --> 01:28:59.680 and carving shit out of my life is what I 1851 01:28:59.680 --> 01:29:02.239 want to do. So I spend my time doing you know, 1852 01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:04.600 travel the world, doing jiu jitsu with my wife, working 1853 01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:06.920 in the coffee shop and being there and making sure 1854 01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:09.760 that that investment bears the fruit that we hope that 1855 01:29:09.800 --> 01:29:12.199 it does, and then focusing on the podcast, and all 1856 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:14.399 of those things exist in a three block radius where 1857 01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:14.720 I live. 1858 01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:20.880 For your podcast, you know, obviously you have on other 1859 01:29:20.960 --> 01:29:25.239 military people, but what are some of And I'm not 1860 01:29:25.279 --> 01:29:27.159 going to ask you what your favorite episodes have been, 1861 01:29:27.159 --> 01:29:29.079 because I know how hard that question is to answer. 1862 01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:33.640 But have there been episodes where you interviewed somebody that 1863 01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:36.279 was outside your box of experience that you really just 1864 01:29:36.560 --> 01:29:40.960 enjoyed and wish that everybody could hear this person. 1865 01:29:44.359 --> 01:29:45.039 There have been some. 1866 01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:50.079 Gold star widows that have been powerful, whether their husband 1867 01:29:50.199 --> 01:29:52.760 was lost in combat or made the decision to in 1868 01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:56.119 their own life and there's also been stories of people 1869 01:29:56.199 --> 01:29:58.479 that are just like homesteading in Alaska, you know that 1870 01:29:58.680 --> 01:30:02.359 just have a fast passion for life and a willingness 1871 01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:04.319 to just figure shit out, even if they don't know 1872 01:30:05.079 --> 01:30:09.000 what the next step should be. I've talked to a 1873 01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:12.880 few people who have been running for office. It was real, okay, 1874 01:30:12.920 --> 01:30:15.039 I mean I think an episode that surprised people or 1875 01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:16.920 like the people were shocked that I would be willing 1876 01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:18.720 to do. And I know you guys talked to him, 1877 01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:20.600 but it was like sitting down and talking with Matthew Cole, 1878 01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:23.600 Like I don't know why people think that, Like I 1879 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:26.319 wouldn't be interested in sitting down and talking with somebody 1880 01:30:26.520 --> 01:30:28.600 who has critical or negative things to say about the 1881 01:30:28.600 --> 01:30:31.000 Seal teams. It's like getting fucking mind, I have critical 1882 01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:32.800 and negative things to say about the Seal Teams, Like 1883 01:30:33.439 --> 01:30:36.880 you know, right, it's not I'm not a fan of 1884 01:30:36.920 --> 01:30:39.439 people avoiding topics because they don't want to hear what 1885 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:40.680 could potentially be said. 1886 01:30:40.960 --> 01:30:41.079 Right. 1887 01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:42.800 It's like, if you don't agree with something, bring it 1888 01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:45.680 into the lights so we can investigate it. And shitty 1889 01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:48.000 ideas they just don't survive scrutiny. 1890 01:30:47.680 --> 01:30:51.000 Right, right, do we have a questions for you. 1891 01:30:51.159 --> 01:30:58.279 We do. Let's see here. Kat Chaser, thank you very 1892 01:30:58.359 --> 01:31:01.840 much for the sticker and the donation. Chief Justice Keith, 1893 01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:05.720 thank you very much, Andy Jack David. In today's day 1894 01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:08.720 and age, would you try out for the teams or 1895 01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:11.880 for Pair of Rescue? Should I try to be a 1896 01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:14.439 PJ or to stay near home or go to cal 1897 01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:16.079 Cali to be a seal? 1898 01:31:18.439 --> 01:31:18.920 Hm hmmm. 1899 01:31:20.279 --> 01:31:22.199 I don't think there's a wrong answer there. It's have 1900 01:31:22.199 --> 01:31:25.159 to keep somebody like advice on that, right, It's it 1901 01:31:25.239 --> 01:31:27.560 kind of depends on what you want to do. I mean, 1902 01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:30.399 make sure you research what PJ or CCT guys do, 1903 01:31:31.039 --> 01:31:34.560 what their role is in the in the larger sphere 1904 01:31:34.560 --> 01:31:37.199 of special operations, and if that's what you want to do, 1905 01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:39.960 then to dive into it headlong. If that's not necessarily 1906 01:31:39.960 --> 01:31:42.079 what you want to do, and being a seal or 1907 01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:44.920 a ranger, a Green Berey or reconn like, just make 1908 01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:47.600 sure you have an understanding of where they fit and 1909 01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:50.359 that what that fit aligns well with what you want 1910 01:31:50.399 --> 01:31:53.199 to accomplish in your career. I don't think there's I 1911 01:31:53.199 --> 01:31:54.840 don't think there's wrong answers to that stuff. 1912 01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:57.079 Yeah, and they're two very different jobs, so it's really 1913 01:31:57.079 --> 01:32:01.560 more like which job. I mean. I know, I don't 1914 01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:03.880 know what the Seal Team pipeline is like these days, 1915 01:32:03.920 --> 01:32:07.840 but I know, you know, back on the day PJCCT had, 1916 01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:11.159 they like their pipeline because of all the schools they 1917 01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:14.239 got front voted, were the envy of everybody. But you 1918 01:32:14.319 --> 01:32:15.640 have to like the job you're doing. 1919 01:32:16.680 --> 01:32:19.600 Yeah, I mean, if you don't like like t Triple 1920 01:32:19.640 --> 01:32:22.479 C and being around like blood and shit, I don't 1921 01:32:22.520 --> 01:32:23.960 know if being a PJ is probably for you. 1922 01:32:24.439 --> 01:32:29.600 Yeah, Joe's gotcha. Thank you very much. Did your Gunja 1923 01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:32.039 hot injury prevent you from returning to dank or are 1924 01:32:32.039 --> 01:32:35.119 you looking to move on to do other things? 1925 01:32:35.960 --> 01:32:37.239 It would not have prevented me. 1926 01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:39.760 I was able to again do that operational tour in 1927 01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:44.199 twenty ten, but it was time for me to go 1928 01:32:44.439 --> 01:32:47.560 for sure. The op tempo that I had been operating 1929 01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:51.239 out was relatively high, young family at the time, and 1930 01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:53.399 it was the right decision for my life at that time. 1931 01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:55.560 I probably could have gone back, not once I switched 1932 01:32:55.600 --> 01:32:58.039 over to becoming an officer, but it was my decision 1933 01:32:58.039 --> 01:33:00.399 to leave, and I do not regret the decision that 1934 01:33:00.439 --> 01:33:00.720 I made. 1935 01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:01.119 For sure. 1936 01:33:05.239 --> 01:33:08.319 Christian hopefully. Thank you very much. Thank you for your 1937 01:33:08.359 --> 01:33:11.520 service and Green Team training. Thank you for the service 1938 01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:14.960 in Green Team training. Do people die in training for 1939 01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:20.359 hostage rescue or other will live fire around I think, 1940 01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:24.439 just is there a risk during the Green Team training 1941 01:33:24.479 --> 01:33:25.840 and stuff like that? Oh? 1942 01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:28.239 God, yeah, I mean the whole fucking job is risky, 1943 01:33:28.319 --> 01:33:31.640 as you guys both will know. I mean, people die 1944 01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:35.119 in the basic seal pipeline and it sucks that it happens. 1945 01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:37.600 And what I'm about to say is going to piss 1946 01:33:37.600 --> 01:33:39.439 people off, but I think it's essential that it does. 1947 01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:44.479 I don't want anybody to die, and it's tragic, but 1948 01:33:44.560 --> 01:33:47.239 I would rather have that occur there knowing that the 1949 01:33:47.279 --> 01:33:49.840 training that is occurring is actually preparing people for the 1950 01:33:49.960 --> 01:33:52.920 job than for it to be orders of magnitude higher 1951 01:33:52.920 --> 01:33:55.479 because they're going into an environment and an occupation that 1952 01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:59.880 they're not prepared for. There's no way to completely reduce 1953 01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:04.960 the risk on a live fire range. Accidents happen. The 1954 01:34:05.039 --> 01:34:09.680 training is hyper realistic. You know, people die and the 1955 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:13.039 execution of the training. It is not a safe career 1956 01:34:13.079 --> 01:34:15.800 field and you need to go into that with your 1957 01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:17.720 eyes wide open. The odds are in your favor when 1958 01:34:17.760 --> 01:34:19.800 it comes to a training accident, and they're actually in 1959 01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:22.800 your favor when it comes to combat operations. But don't 1960 01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:23.520 lie to yourself. 1961 01:34:27.399 --> 01:34:30.039 Concanza or Concanza, thank you very much. I'm gonna wrap 1962 01:34:30.079 --> 01:34:35.119 your question in with somebody else. And he all says, 1963 01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:41.199 I love both your podcasts and great interviews. Thanks pimped down, 1964 01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:44.640 Thank you. I always wondered why Andy doesn't speak more 1965 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:47.439 about his Navy career. I know he's a modest man, 1966 01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:50.199 but the story is interesting. Remy is a beast. 1967 01:34:51.640 --> 01:34:53.119 Oh so, Remy was a guy I just had on 1968 01:34:53.159 --> 01:34:54.880 Rey Remy ad Alci. He was a guy to put 1969 01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:58.760 through training, and he's a good guy. Yeah, fucking doing everything, 1970 01:34:58.880 --> 01:35:04.079 piece of ship producer. Fucking disgust me with his success. 1971 01:35:07.319 --> 01:35:09.439 I had a fucking average career. I would rate my 1972 01:35:09.479 --> 01:35:12.079 career as a c I'm not like a war story 1973 01:35:12.119 --> 01:35:16.479 guy because there's nothing to get like, oh hey there, 1974 01:35:16.520 --> 01:35:19.199 I was cool. So so there was a lot of 1975 01:35:19.239 --> 01:35:22.000 other people there, two hundreds of people. Thousands of people 1976 01:35:22.359 --> 01:35:24.279 did the same ship that I did. Like, who gives 1977 01:35:24.279 --> 01:35:29.680 a shit, It's just not there's nothing to like, harp on. 1978 01:35:30.079 --> 01:35:31.119 It just was what it was. 1979 01:35:37.199 --> 01:35:42.840 Andrew, thank you do each of the squadrons have a personality. 1980 01:35:43.720 --> 01:35:46.399 Uh, yeah, for sure. I mean it's it's like it's 1981 01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:49.319 they're like a team. And I'd say probably the same 1982 01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:52.680 thing for CAG as well too. Like there are four squadrons, 1983 01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:55.880 they each have their own logo, and they each have 1984 01:35:55.960 --> 01:35:58.279 their own personality, and they have their own loyalty to 1985 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:00.640 the team as well. It's not very different a professional 1986 01:36:00.720 --> 01:36:01.279 sporting team. 1987 01:36:02.880 --> 01:36:03.000 Uh. 1988 01:36:03.119 --> 01:36:05.439 And then Jay Walker. So Constanza, I'm gonna wrap your 1989 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:07.880 question with this just so we don't really harp on 1990 01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:12.800 this topic, but asks a question and they both kind 1991 01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:15.479 of go back to the Matthew Cole Did you did 1992 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:17.840 you get any flat for the Matthew Cole interview? And 1993 01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:21.840 do you feel as though that there are issues that 1994 01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:24.119 in the teams that need to be addressed or do 1995 01:36:24.159 --> 01:36:28.079 you feel as though it's more that it. Do you 1996 01:36:28.079 --> 01:36:32.000 think it is less widespread as has been portrayed. 1997 01:36:34.199 --> 01:36:37.119 There are probably people who have an issue with the 1998 01:36:37.159 --> 01:36:41.039 fact that they use the term platforming. How could you 1999 01:36:41.079 --> 01:36:43.680 platform somebody like that? It's like, how about I'll do 2000 01:36:43.680 --> 01:36:45.600 whatever the fuck I want to do with my own platform, 2001 01:36:45.640 --> 01:36:47.960 and you can eat a buffet of dicks, right, So, 2002 01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:53.199 there might be people who take issue with that, and 2003 01:36:53.239 --> 01:36:55.960 there probably are a lot of people who take issue 2004 01:36:55.960 --> 01:36:58.239 with some of the things that he said, but that 2005 01:36:58.279 --> 01:37:01.800 doesn't make those things in value. I'll be the first 2006 01:37:01.800 --> 01:37:04.760 person to tell you that the Seal community isn't perfect, 2007 01:37:05.159 --> 01:37:07.039 and I'm sure both of you would be the first 2008 01:37:07.039 --> 01:37:10.720 people to tell me that the Army Ranger cag Green 2009 01:37:10.760 --> 01:37:14.680 Beray community isn't perfect either. And at the end of 2010 01:37:14.720 --> 01:37:16.920 the day, the reason for that is we're talking about 2011 01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:21.319 human beings, and human beings bring human being problems. We've 2012 01:37:21.359 --> 01:37:23.680 never had a period in the United States history where 2013 01:37:23.680 --> 01:37:26.199 we had a consistent level of warfare to the degree 2014 01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:32.640 that special operations were fighting inside of there's going to 2015 01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:36.239 be good and there's going to be bad. The only 2016 01:37:36.319 --> 01:37:39.199 thing that I think we should focus on is balancing 2017 01:37:39.279 --> 01:37:42.720 how much time we spend talking about either, because what 2018 01:37:42.800 --> 01:37:46.640 you go looking for when you investigate those communities is 2019 01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:49.239 what you are going to find. So, if you go 2020 01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:51.760 into a community and you want to write a book 2021 01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:55.439 or a series of books specifically to seal community, you 2022 01:37:55.439 --> 01:37:59.560 want to write it about missteps. If you want to 2023 01:37:59.560 --> 01:38:01.520 write it at about mistakes, if you want to write 2024 01:38:01.520 --> 01:38:05.119 it about things that shouldn't have happened. What you're going 2025 01:38:05.159 --> 01:38:07.279 to find if you consistently look in the shadows is 2026 01:38:07.279 --> 01:38:12.039 shit that's in the shadows that falls below the bar 2027 01:38:12.439 --> 01:38:16.000 that this country should hold that community too. And what 2028 01:38:16.039 --> 01:38:18.039 I'll say is that's the exact same thing that would 2029 01:38:18.039 --> 01:38:20.720 happen in any other community that that level of scrutiny 2030 01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:23.439 was applied to. So I don't think it's necessarily an 2031 01:38:23.439 --> 01:38:26.880 issue of the seal community or the Special operations community. 2032 01:38:27.399 --> 01:38:31.079 It's a human being problem, especially when you task a 2033 01:38:31.199 --> 01:38:35.920 very small section of human beings to do incredibly abnormal 2034 01:38:35.960 --> 01:38:38.079 things for a long period of time. It should it 2035 01:38:38.079 --> 01:38:41.000 does excuse their behavior in any way, shape or form, 2036 01:38:41.359 --> 01:38:44.279 but you shouldn't be surprised to find it either, right, right. 2037 01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:48.600 And the thing is is, you know and Jack, you know, 2038 01:38:48.600 --> 01:38:52.439 he's written quite a few very critical licals on you 2039 01:38:52.479 --> 01:38:55.039 know what, special forces and some of the things that 2040 01:38:55.119 --> 01:38:57.880 have been going on recently, you know, with that type 2041 01:38:57.920 --> 01:39:01.359 of stuff, and people can hate people for that, but 2042 01:39:01.399 --> 01:39:04.479 it's also like we have to we have to shine 2043 01:39:04.479 --> 01:39:09.520 a light on these things in these communities because we 2044 01:39:09.560 --> 01:39:12.279 want these communities to be better. Nobody hates these communities, 2045 01:39:12.399 --> 01:39:17.920 we want them to be better, and you don't get 2046 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:20.079 better by ignoring, you. 2047 01:39:19.960 --> 01:39:23.000 Know, yeah, I mean, hey, don't hold your family hostage 2048 01:39:23.039 --> 01:39:25.399 at gunpoint. No one will write about it, right, right, 2049 01:39:25.399 --> 01:39:26.880 it's not you know. 2050 01:39:27.039 --> 01:39:30.359 Yeah, And again it's like we're just talking about human beings, right, 2051 01:39:30.399 --> 01:39:37.319 I mean we all it's you know, the suicide epidemic. 2052 01:39:38.039 --> 01:39:41.439 Not that I like that term, but I have spent 2053 01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:45.640 so much time trying to make sense rational sense of 2054 01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:48.880 an irrational decision now and I know, in that moment, 2055 01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:50.640 for a lot of people, it seems like the only 2056 01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:52.600 rational decision. But if you look at it from a 2057 01:39:53.279 --> 01:39:56.960 broader perspective, like it's not a rational choice, how the 2058 01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.840 fuck did we get there? You know, Like it's to 2059 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:02.840 stistically higher than a lot of other communities, especially just 2060 01:40:02.880 --> 01:40:06.039 the civilian world, if you strip away ems first responder, 2061 01:40:06.079 --> 01:40:09.880 you know, that whole world, it's it's like astronomically higher. 2062 01:40:11.399 --> 01:40:14.840 And everybody that I've ever worked with has a different 2063 01:40:14.880 --> 01:40:19.640 capacity for stress for you know, their stress relief tool, 2064 01:40:20.239 --> 01:40:24.439 whether it could be healthy or unhealthy, And it's just 2065 01:40:25.319 --> 01:40:27.600 everybody gets to a breaking point at some point in time. 2066 01:40:27.640 --> 01:40:30.199 And I think what's tough is nobody knows when that's 2067 01:40:30.199 --> 01:40:31.680 going to be, and a lot of times people can 2068 01:40:31.720 --> 01:40:34.680 really hide it, and I wish we could figure out 2069 01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:38.560 a way to not allow that to happen. But if 2070 01:40:38.600 --> 01:40:42.079 my choice were to make sure that none of the 2071 01:40:42.079 --> 01:40:47.479 things ever happened that people write stories about or destroy 2072 01:40:47.560 --> 01:40:54.239 the operational ability of those forces, I would rather have 2073 01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:57.000 those forces being capable of doing the job that they 2074 01:40:57.000 --> 01:40:58.840 are tasked with doing and figure out a better way 2075 01:40:58.880 --> 01:41:01.600 to try to manage the aftermath. That makes sense. 2076 01:41:02.119 --> 01:41:07.960 Yeah, and then Brian, thank you very much. Got to 2077 01:41:08.000 --> 01:41:10.680 ask him about the two world records he set for charity. 2078 01:41:12.319 --> 01:41:16.560 Oh, in January, we did a scott Having expedition, so 2079 01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:19.560 we did seven jumps in seven continents in six days, 2080 01:41:20.079 --> 01:41:22.000 and we were raising money for Fold of Honor, so 2081 01:41:22.039 --> 01:41:27.199 we started in Antarctica to Chile, to Miami, to Barcelona 2082 01:41:27.239 --> 01:41:31.520 to Cairo to UAE to Australia, which was pretty sweet. 2083 01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:35.039 And yeah, all the money went towards charity. I think 2084 01:41:35.039 --> 01:41:37.159 we raised a million and a quarter dollars for Fuld 2085 01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:41.880 of Honor, which is educational scholarships for Goal Star families. 2086 01:41:41.920 --> 01:41:44.640 And also now they've wrapped in first responders as well, 2087 01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:45.319 which is awesome. 2088 01:41:46.840 --> 01:41:50.560 And let me just check Dan Bash wants to know 2089 01:41:50.600 --> 01:41:54.399 if you'll rate his dick broom. 2090 01:41:54.520 --> 01:41:56.560 I'd be willing to rate, you know, a quality dick broom. 2091 01:41:56.600 --> 01:42:00.680 I can appreciate one to mustache. Who are wondering what 2092 01:42:00.720 --> 01:42:01.760 the fuck I'm talking about? 2093 01:42:02.319 --> 01:42:03.079 A flavor saver. 2094 01:42:03.840 --> 01:42:05.199 Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't know the Army 2095 01:42:05.239 --> 01:42:07.880 term for that, but we're talking like full magnum p. 2096 01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:11.000 I just dusting off that shaft as it just goes 2097 01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:17.920 into your mouth. Yeah, I mean yeah, the best best practice. 2098 01:42:17.960 --> 01:42:18.479 From the Navy. 2099 01:42:18.520 --> 01:42:20.039 Come on, you guys know all the gay jokes. 2100 01:42:20.279 --> 01:42:23.720 Mostly I was a corman in the Navy. I was 2101 01:42:23.760 --> 01:42:25.640 a penis machinist, so I'm right there with you. 2102 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:28.199 I have been I have been assured that it's not 2103 01:42:28.319 --> 01:42:31.399 gay if you're underway. Yeah, I've been told that it's 2104 01:42:31.439 --> 01:42:33.840 not a million times. I've been told that it's not 2105 01:42:33.920 --> 01:42:35.119 queer if you're near the pier. 2106 01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:36.840 Fair. 2107 01:42:37.640 --> 01:42:40.880 I'm looking for confirmation. Guys don't don't play them. But 2108 01:42:41.319 --> 01:42:43.479 I wasn't an athlete, so I couldn't tell you. But 2109 01:42:43.760 --> 01:42:44.720 I'm just gonna. 2110 01:42:44.439 --> 01:42:46.920 Say that the village people did not do in the 2111 01:42:47.079 --> 01:42:52.000 Army song. And I say that as as a proud 2112 01:42:52.119 --> 01:43:01.920 maybe better Isaac, thank you. I want to see how 2113 01:43:03.199 --> 01:43:06.439 I can frame this. He wants, did you ever work 2114 01:43:06.520 --> 01:43:16.600 with any SMU or any intelligence SMUs. Yeah, it's kind 2115 01:43:16.600 --> 01:43:18.359 of it's more of a I don't know that we 2116 01:43:18.399 --> 01:43:21.279 can ask that, Isaac. It's more of a yes. 2117 01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:23.600 When you're at Jays, that's all you work with and 2118 01:43:23.640 --> 01:43:24.319 we can leave it at that. 2119 01:43:24.520 --> 01:43:36.520 Yeah, all right, this is a really long question, josh uh. 2120 01:43:37.000 --> 01:43:39.319 This would be a great opportunity to do some clarification. 2121 01:43:39.359 --> 01:43:42.119 And he has been very adamant about publishing about the 2122 01:43:42.119 --> 01:43:50.920 publishing of the Niger ambush footage and you had an 2123 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:53.960 SS soldiers iphon. However, without the footage, she never would 2124 01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:56.600 have won any ground against the African leaders in defending 2125 01:43:56.600 --> 01:44:00.439 her husband's legacy. Not wanting to watch dirty laundry in public. 2126 01:44:00.479 --> 01:44:02.560 Banandy and Jack have been on opposite side to certain 2127 01:44:02.600 --> 01:44:05.199 current events for a long time and both being vocal 2128 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:07.880 about it, from possible war crimes to corruption do to 2129 01:44:07.960 --> 01:44:10.880 troup discipline and culture. This would be a great opportunity 2130 01:44:10.880 --> 01:44:12.920 to show the world how people have integrity, can discuss 2131 01:44:12.960 --> 01:44:16.399 conversational topics in a beneficial way and not bothered, not 2132 01:44:16.520 --> 01:44:21.600 othering or out browing each other. I have high expectations. 2133 01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:25.119 I mean, let's start with how how does this person 2134 01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:28.239 know that the footage was an actual lever that made 2135 01:44:28.239 --> 01:44:30.439 the difference. The answer to that is, you don't. 2136 01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:31.800 I don't think it did. 2137 01:44:32.720 --> 01:44:35.600 Yeah, And so I mean the premise of your of 2138 01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:38.880 your assumption, I'm gonna say, is categorically false. 2139 01:44:39.920 --> 01:44:40.119 Yeah. 2140 01:44:40.159 --> 01:44:42.560 I had a huge problem with soft Rep posting the 2141 01:44:42.560 --> 01:44:46.600 footage and watermarking it, and I was very vocal about that. 2142 01:44:47.359 --> 01:44:48.640 I mean, this is the first time Jack and I 2143 01:44:48.680 --> 01:44:52.079 have ever had a conversation. I know that you worked 2144 01:44:52.119 --> 01:44:56.760 with an individual. It comes from the world that I 2145 01:44:56.800 --> 01:44:58.600 came from, and I don't know where anything stands with 2146 01:44:58.640 --> 01:45:00.479 any of these people. So people can film blanks if 2147 01:45:00.520 --> 01:45:00.800 you want. 2148 01:45:01.159 --> 01:45:02.960 And it's he who shall not be named. 2149 01:45:03.119 --> 01:45:07.239 Yeah, Yeah, I have stepped away from there four or 2150 01:45:07.239 --> 01:45:08.079 five years ago. 2151 01:45:08.840 --> 01:45:11.239 So the man has a casual relationship with the truth, 2152 01:45:11.439 --> 01:45:15.319 and I take issue with that. I have no issue 2153 01:45:15.319 --> 01:45:17.800 with people being in business to be in business. I 2154 01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:21.520 have people. I have an issue with people leveraging footage 2155 01:45:21.520 --> 01:45:24.800 and watermarking it with the intention of getting eyes, but 2156 01:45:24.840 --> 01:45:27.640 the actual intention is dropping driving traffic to their for 2157 01:45:27.760 --> 01:45:30.600 profit business. If it was a mistake it was a 2158 01:45:30.640 --> 01:45:33.880 mistake if it wasn't a mistake, And again, like I 2159 01:45:33.920 --> 01:45:35.960 know exactly what this person is talking about. But at 2160 01:45:35.960 --> 01:45:37.680 the end of the day, I voice my opinion and 2161 01:45:37.720 --> 01:45:39.600 I move on. There's nothing that I can do about it. 2162 01:45:39.640 --> 01:45:41.680 I allowed one of the widows to come on and 2163 01:45:41.720 --> 01:45:45.479 tell her story, and it was fucking powerful, and I'm 2164 01:45:45.520 --> 01:45:48.600 glad that I did. My issue was with that individual. 2165 01:45:48.680 --> 01:45:52.359 I addressed it directly with that individual, who then proceeded 2166 01:45:52.359 --> 01:45:54.520 to block me because they're not interested in what I 2167 01:45:54.560 --> 01:45:56.479 have to say. And that's okay. I don't give a fuck. 2168 01:45:57.560 --> 01:46:00.000 And I guarantee you that that person would absolutely run 2169 01:46:00.199 --> 01:46:02.560 to me if we ever met face to face. And 2170 01:46:02.600 --> 01:46:05.640 I'll just say, there's a reason why people like that 2171 01:46:05.720 --> 01:46:09.520 don't associate with larger groups inside of the community, because 2172 01:46:09.520 --> 01:46:12.279 they're not welcome and they're not supported. So you're gonna 2173 01:46:12.279 --> 01:46:15.600 have to do a little bit of a connecting the 2174 01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:18.520 dots on your own on that one, because that individual 2175 01:46:18.600 --> 01:46:23.039 is not the only person who's kind of in that boat. 2176 01:46:23.359 --> 01:46:24.600 But at the end of the day, you know, I 2177 01:46:24.680 --> 01:46:26.520 voiced what I thought and moved on. That's all I 2178 01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:26.840 can do. 2179 01:46:27.359 --> 01:46:30.159 Yeah, there, I mean, there's a lot that goes into 2180 01:46:30.199 --> 01:46:33.199 all this, but I mean, just from my perspective, but 2181 01:46:33.239 --> 01:46:36.000 I'm not gonna sit here and try to justify things 2182 01:46:36.079 --> 01:46:40.000 or whatever. I just say that things were handled in 2183 01:46:40.039 --> 01:46:42.439 a certain way, and they could have been handled in 2184 01:46:42.479 --> 01:46:45.119 a much better way, in a much more professional way, 2185 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:51.239 and they weren't. I guess you're probably talking about Michelle Michelle. 2186 01:46:51.279 --> 01:46:53.800 Michelle Black wrote a book, and this is I mean, 2187 01:46:53.840 --> 01:46:56.960 maybe maybe this is like the more positive way to 2188 01:46:57.039 --> 01:47:00.199 take the discussion is to direct people towards Michelle's book. 2189 01:47:00.319 --> 01:47:03.079 She wrote a book called Sacrifice, and she did a 2190 01:47:03.119 --> 01:47:06.399 ton a ton of research talking to all the people 2191 01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:10.119 who were involved in that incident and what her late 2192 01:47:10.199 --> 01:47:13.720 husband went through in Niger, and wrote it into a 2193 01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:17.479 book called Sacrifice. I read it this year. I highly 2194 01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:19.720 recommend people go and take a look at that book 2195 01:47:19.720 --> 01:47:22.000 if they really want to know the true story of 2196 01:47:22.039 --> 01:47:23.239 what happened out there that day. 2197 01:47:24.359 --> 01:47:27.720 She, in her unwillingness to take no for an answer, 2198 01:47:27.800 --> 01:47:30.000 uncovered far more than that video ever would. 2199 01:47:31.399 --> 01:47:31.920 It's true. 2200 01:47:33.439 --> 01:47:43.880 Yeah, and then mister Stump has interviewed several people involved 2201 01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:46.880 in fighting human trafficking. Does mister Stump have any insights 2202 01:47:46.880 --> 01:47:50.399 into the reputation of Tim Ballard and his underground railroad. 2203 01:47:51.479 --> 01:47:56.840 Oh you are among other professions professionals operating this area. 2204 01:47:57.279 --> 01:47:59.760 Tim Ballard and Oh You are portrayed in the movie 2205 01:47:59.760 --> 01:48:02.279 Sound Freedom. Currently send me a frequent topic of discussion 2206 01:48:02.319 --> 01:48:03.720 for a myriative reasons. 2207 01:48:04.760 --> 01:48:07.479 I know almost nothing about the man, so i'd be 2208 01:48:07.520 --> 01:48:09.800 over the front of my skis saying anything about his 2209 01:48:09.920 --> 01:48:11.199 organization or him himself. 2210 01:48:11.640 --> 01:48:14.920 Okay, Gerald, thank you. As a big watch guy myself, 2211 01:48:14.960 --> 01:48:16.960 I was wondering what Andy and his teammates were. I 2212 01:48:17.000 --> 01:48:20.039 know seals have a long history with rishwatch is such 2213 01:48:20.039 --> 01:48:22.720 as Saco, Rolex, Panar and G Shock. 2214 01:48:24.560 --> 01:48:26.680 I'd say G Shock, I mean that's what we got issued. 2215 01:48:26.800 --> 01:48:28.920 The other ones you listed are far far better. I 2216 01:48:28.960 --> 01:48:32.920 cannot afford a Panorai. The like classic team Guy watch 2217 01:48:33.119 --> 01:48:36.159 was the Rolex sub Mariner, and I've never been like 2218 01:48:36.199 --> 01:48:38.640 a huge watch guy and the only watch I've ever 2219 01:48:38.680 --> 01:48:43.199 bought for myself. This is so dumb and gay to say, 2220 01:48:43.239 --> 01:48:46.279 but because I like the James Bond filmed the Omega 2221 01:48:46.359 --> 01:48:50.000 Sea Master, the blue one that Daniel Craig wore. When 2222 01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:53.239 I got commissioned, I was able to justify first to 2223 01:48:53.319 --> 01:48:55.199 myself and then to my wife that I needed an 2224 01:48:55.199 --> 01:48:57.199 excellent time piece so I could sit in at the 2225 01:48:57.239 --> 01:48:58.640 table with the other officers. 2226 01:49:01.079 --> 01:49:03.439 I love it. Yeah. I used to have an Amegacy 2227 01:49:03.479 --> 01:49:05.640 Master and I got stolen during a move, so but 2228 01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:06.600 all that. 2229 01:49:06.560 --> 01:49:07.000 Is fucked up. 2230 01:49:07.039 --> 01:49:07.800 There's such great watch. 2231 01:49:07.880 --> 01:49:08.079 Yeah. 2232 01:49:08.119 --> 01:49:10.880 I mean I never wear the thing, but it's just 2233 01:49:11.279 --> 01:49:12.640 like a timeless design. 2234 01:49:12.840 --> 01:49:17.920 Yeah, Jess schreck On, thank you very much. Uh. Dealer's 2235 01:49:18.000 --> 01:49:21.600 choice based on the feeling of the interview. H story 2236 01:49:21.640 --> 01:49:24.279 about Jaysock operator shooting a box of pop tarts on 2237 01:49:24.359 --> 01:49:27.640 base or if Andy Andy had been shot and could 2238 01:49:27.640 --> 01:49:29.640 go back with all the nodge he's gained from that 2239 01:49:29.760 --> 01:49:32.560 day up until now, would he have stayed in longer, 2240 01:49:32.640 --> 01:49:34.920 gotten out sooner or left and around the same time. 2241 01:49:36.920 --> 01:49:38.079 I mean I can answer both. 2242 01:49:38.439 --> 01:49:38.600 Uh. 2243 01:49:38.880 --> 01:49:40.800 I probably would have stayed in if I had been 2244 01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:43.000 physically able to do so. In the pop tarts story, 2245 01:49:43.800 --> 01:49:46.680 it's not about Jasonock operate tours. It is about a 2246 01:49:46.800 --> 01:49:50.199 Jasock opera tour who was in. 2247 01:49:50.159 --> 01:49:51.000 A chow hal. 2248 01:49:52.439 --> 01:49:54.520 With a fucking box of pop tarts and he was 2249 01:49:54.560 --> 01:49:56.760 sitting there because this is how high speed we are. 2250 01:49:57.600 --> 01:50:01.600 He would drop his mag rack round out that was 2251 01:50:01.680 --> 01:50:04.199 left in there, pointed at the pop tar box and 2252 01:50:04.239 --> 01:50:06.439 pulled the trigger. And let's just say one of the 2253 01:50:06.479 --> 01:50:11.560 times he went out of sequence, Oh my god, he 2254 01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:14.199 twelve bringing it? Tell yeah nice? 2255 01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:14.560 Uh? 2256 01:50:15.119 --> 01:50:17.399 Did did he get he went home right afterwards? 2257 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:18.960 I was gonna say, did did he get a pretty 2258 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:20.520 convenient flight home after that? Oh? 2259 01:50:20.600 --> 01:50:20.800 Yeah? 2260 01:50:20.960 --> 01:50:23.680 Fucking chicken or steak window or aisle to one? Baby? 2261 01:50:23.680 --> 01:50:24.239 Which one? 2262 01:50:26.720 --> 01:50:29.520 And Markles and I'd be interesting, you guys touched on 2263 01:50:29.560 --> 01:50:32.079 some of the thing in Matthew Coles. I think I 2264 01:50:32.119 --> 01:50:34.439 feel like we kind of talked about that a little bit, like. 2265 01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:37.039 Well, here's the thing too, And because people ask me 2266 01:50:37.079 --> 01:50:39.439 all the time about this stuff that he wrote, I 2267 01:50:39.640 --> 01:50:42.439 was not present at anything that he wrote about in 2268 01:50:42.520 --> 01:50:45.239 that book, So I can't talk about with any level 2269 01:50:45.279 --> 01:50:48.800 of authority or experience about what he wrote. Can I 2270 01:50:48.840 --> 01:50:51.119 tell you that the Seal community has fallen short and 2271 01:50:51.199 --> 01:50:55.119 committed war crimes? Yes, it has happened in the history 2272 01:50:55.119 --> 01:50:57.319 of the Seal community. It absolutely has in the post 2273 01:50:57.359 --> 01:51:00.319 nine to eleven g watt Era. But I was not 2274 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:02.680 physically there on the things that he wrote about, so 2275 01:51:02.800 --> 01:51:06.560 I can't speak with any level of, like I said, authority, 2276 01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:08.640 I mean, if I if I could, or I would 2277 01:51:08.680 --> 01:51:10.680 have been there, I would tell the truth about it. Yeah, 2278 01:51:10.720 --> 01:51:12.640 but he is not writing about anything I was present for. 2279 01:51:12.960 --> 01:51:15.920 Yeah, and you know, we don't have any first ten 2280 01:51:16.039 --> 01:51:20.640 knowledge of anything like that, So you know, RS, thank you. 2281 01:51:20.880 --> 01:51:26.279 Why is Joe Rogan considered the podcasting goat? 2282 01:51:26.960 --> 01:51:29.479 I would say probably because of I mean the sheer 2283 01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:32.000 number of downloads. I mean, we're in the multiple billions 2284 01:51:32.119 --> 01:51:33.840 at this point when it comes to downloading. 2285 01:51:33.960 --> 01:51:34.680 Wow, yeah here. 2286 01:51:34.920 --> 01:51:36.479 I mean, you guys probably hear it two like, oh, 2287 01:51:36.479 --> 01:51:38.039 I'm gonna start a podcast, I'm gonna be the next 2288 01:51:38.119 --> 01:51:40.920 Joe Rogan. I'm like, no, you're not. Like, let's remember 2289 01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:44.119 Joe Rogan was famous before he started his podcast, right, 2290 01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:46.439 you know, the fear Factor dude who was already doing comedy, 2291 01:51:46.439 --> 01:51:48.920 who was already doing news radio. And I'm not saying 2292 01:51:49.119 --> 01:51:52.039 like you can't be successful without that, but let's also 2293 01:51:52.119 --> 01:51:56.000 at least like have a relative idea of what's going 2294 01:51:56.079 --> 01:51:58.359 to be possible. I mean, the difference in distance between 2295 01:51:58.399 --> 01:52:01.640 where Joe is at and probably the next most successful podcasters, 2296 01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:04.800 like trying to broad jump the Grand Canyon. I would 2297 01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:07.760 say he's considered one of the goats because he's curious, 2298 01:52:08.399 --> 01:52:10.600 and he will bring just about anybody on and talk 2299 01:52:10.640 --> 01:52:12.560 with him about whatever they want to. And I think 2300 01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:16.920 he does a very good job of limiting what he 2301 01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:20.119 says based around what he knows. And nobody's perfect about 2302 01:52:20.119 --> 01:52:22.399 this by any stretch, but he's really honest about what 2303 01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:23.159 he knows and what he does. 2304 01:52:23.640 --> 01:52:25.960 Yeah, and Andy, to your one of your previous points, 2305 01:52:26.000 --> 01:52:28.640 I mean, if you look at like the early Joe Rogan, 2306 01:52:28.760 --> 01:52:32.279 it was kind of like haphazard and goofy and just thrown. 2307 01:52:32.079 --> 01:52:34.359 The geary number one needs to go in a fucking 2308 01:52:34.399 --> 01:52:37.479 time capsule. It was literally like a laptop screen with 2309 01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:38.199 like little. 2310 01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:40.680 Snows likes right coming down and awesome and so yeah, 2311 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:42.760 overnight success ten years later. 2312 01:52:42.680 --> 01:52:47.720 Right, Yeah, have you found do you feel I know 2313 01:52:47.760 --> 01:52:50.039 you say you don't really know what your podcast is about, 2314 01:52:50.079 --> 01:52:52.399 but obviously you know you're at one hundred and twenty 2315 01:52:52.439 --> 01:52:56.039 two thousand subscribers like that, there's a measure of success there. 2316 01:52:57.319 --> 01:53:01.239 Have you found your stride? Do you feel or with it? 2317 01:53:01.439 --> 01:53:03.479 You know, do you have a sense of what works 2318 01:53:03.520 --> 01:53:04.920 and what doesn't work at this point? 2319 01:53:06.359 --> 01:53:06.600 Yeah? 2320 01:53:06.600 --> 01:53:11.279 But I also I mean yes and yes and yes, 2321 01:53:11.560 --> 01:53:13.720 but it's a double edged sword. I don't want to 2322 01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:15.920 pander to anybody, because at the end of the day, 2323 01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:18.520 I'm doing this. I mean, I'm largely doing it for myself. 2324 01:53:18.520 --> 01:53:21.239 It's just an extension of being curious and wanting to learn, 2325 01:53:24.680 --> 01:53:27.880 like you could. It'd be so easy to try to 2326 01:53:27.960 --> 01:53:31.439 chase headlines like, oh, this just happened, let's just go 2327 01:53:31.479 --> 01:53:34.680 try to find an expert on that, and I don't 2328 01:53:34.760 --> 01:53:38.039 want to do that. I'm interested in things that interest me, 2329 01:53:38.079 --> 01:53:40.560 and I'm honestly quite disinterested in a lot of shit 2330 01:53:40.560 --> 01:53:44.520 that happens in society, and there are things that people 2331 01:53:44.560 --> 01:53:47.359 care about that I don't like. I don't give a 2332 01:53:47.600 --> 01:53:51.439 fuck how popular the Kardashians are. I would rather suck 2333 01:53:51.479 --> 01:53:54.039 start a pistol than sit down and have a conversation 2334 01:53:54.159 --> 01:53:56.239 with one of them. I don't care. And the episode 2335 01:53:56.239 --> 01:53:58.439 would probably crush, right because of the audience that they 2336 01:53:58.439 --> 01:54:01.960 would bring. I'm not willing to so, I mean, like, 2337 01:54:02.039 --> 01:54:04.399 but that would work, right, So to answer your question, 2338 01:54:04.479 --> 01:54:07.000 like you know, it would work because podcasting is more 2339 01:54:07.039 --> 01:54:09.399 about the I think, the guests than it is the host. 2340 01:54:10.520 --> 01:54:13.079 But how much are you willing to whore yourself out? 2341 01:54:13.119 --> 01:54:14.640 I guess is the question that we all have to 2342 01:54:14.680 --> 01:54:15.520 ask ourselves right to. 2343 01:54:15.600 --> 01:54:21.119 Metri Yeah, yeah, no, we we have those exactly. You know, 2344 01:54:21.279 --> 01:54:23.520 we will have on you know, we stay in a 2345 01:54:23.560 --> 01:54:27.159 certain wheelhouse, but we'll have on an analyst and you know, 2346 01:54:27.319 --> 01:54:31.279 for a lot of people having on an analystsator. But 2347 01:54:31.439 --> 01:54:36.319 it's still an important point of an important part of 2348 01:54:36.439 --> 01:54:39.279 the history that we want to cover, you know. 2349 01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:41.800 Yeah, operators don't do ship without. 2350 01:54:41.600 --> 01:54:48.960 Analysts, right yeah, Now, well, so where can everybody find you? 2351 01:54:49.039 --> 01:54:52.079 Obviously clear hot podcast. You guys, if you enjoy this show, 2352 01:54:52.520 --> 01:54:56.399 you'll love you'll love this show. You probably already know that, 2353 01:54:56.560 --> 01:55:01.680 but check them out YouTube and all podcast platform. Where 2354 01:55:01.720 --> 01:55:05.319 else a black Rifle coffee, you know, in your hometown, 2355 01:55:05.359 --> 01:55:06.079 your brick and mortar. 2356 01:55:06.960 --> 01:55:09.760 Yeah, and then as far like, I'm not crazy active 2357 01:55:09.800 --> 01:55:12.279 on social media, but the platform the most active on 2358 01:55:12.479 --> 01:55:15.000 is Instagram. I mean it's just my name, Andy stump 2359 01:55:15.199 --> 01:55:19.520 to twelve, But yeah, I mean I'm out there just 2360 01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:21.000 kind of like all of us in the digital age. 2361 01:55:21.039 --> 01:55:22.720 I mean, if you look hard enough, you can find everybody. 2362 01:55:23.079 --> 01:55:26.359 Yeah. Yeah, is there anything else you want to plug? Anymore? 2363 01:55:26.520 --> 01:55:30.039 Charity events coming up or anything on your horizon? 2364 01:55:30.119 --> 01:55:32.680 Have some stuff that I'm working on but it's a 2365 01:55:32.800 --> 01:55:35.039 little bit too early, probably to throw it out there. 2366 01:55:35.119 --> 01:55:38.199 I've been on the been a little bit too eager 2367 01:55:38.359 --> 01:55:40.960 in the past before and like, hey, guys, pay attention 2368 01:55:41.079 --> 01:55:42.560 for this, and then it doesn't happen. I'm like, yeah, 2369 01:55:42.800 --> 01:55:44.439 well that didn't happen because I'm an idiot, and I 2370 01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:46.119 said that that was going to happen before I was ready. 2371 01:55:46.159 --> 01:55:48.159 So now I wait a little bit bitter. 2372 01:55:48.199 --> 01:55:48.920 Right right. 2373 01:55:49.680 --> 01:55:52.640 Awesome, Andy, thank you for doing this, man, I really 2374 01:55:52.680 --> 01:55:56.479 appreciate it, of course, and everyone watching this Friday, We're 2375 01:55:56.520 --> 01:55:58.960 going to be back with Gary Winderer, author of the 2376 01:55:59.000 --> 01:56:01.920 Six Silent Men's he served as a warp in Vietnam. 2377 01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:05.319 Really excited to have him on the show. We've done 2378 01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:09.800 Ken Miller, We've done Larry and now Larry wanted me 2379 01:56:09.840 --> 01:56:12.439 to make fun of of Gary as being the least 2380 01:56:12.520 --> 01:56:14.920 handsome of the of the bunch, So I mean it's 2381 01:56:14.920 --> 01:56:17.319 got to be somebody. We'll break Gary's balls a little bit. 2382 01:56:17.359 --> 01:56:20.119 But no, he's a really good guy. And I mean, 2383 01:56:20.479 --> 01:56:22.479 like we talk on this show all the time about 2384 01:56:22.520 --> 01:56:25.079 what our influences were that got us to join the military, 2385 01:56:25.119 --> 01:56:27.239 and reading those warp books those memoirs when I was 2386 01:56:27.279 --> 01:56:28.800 a kid was what did it for me? 2387 01:56:29.399 --> 01:56:32.359 So we're how they walk around with balls that big 2388 01:56:32.760 --> 01:56:33.760 and they're tiger stripes. 2389 01:56:33.960 --> 01:56:37.880 Now yeah, I mean when you interview those guys and 2390 01:56:39.560 --> 01:56:42.520 like the software in Iraq in Afghanistan was so tame 2391 01:56:42.680 --> 01:56:47.039 compared to what those guys were doing in Vietnam. It's 2392 01:56:47.159 --> 01:56:47.800 just insane. 2393 01:56:48.039 --> 01:56:52.039 I had John Striker Myron oh yeah, and talking about 2394 01:56:52.199 --> 01:56:54.079 the ship that they did, and all I could think 2395 01:56:54.119 --> 01:56:57.159 of when he was talking, I'm thinking to my head 2396 01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:02.920 how much true you would be in if you tried 2397 01:57:03.000 --> 01:57:08.439 to put in like a risk assessment operation order based 2398 01:57:08.479 --> 01:57:11.520 off what they were doing. They would laugh you the 2399 01:57:11.720 --> 01:57:15.359 fuck out of the country. John John, John's the man, 2400 01:57:15.640 --> 01:57:19.960 you know. And well it's it's another whole conversation. People 2401 01:57:20.039 --> 01:57:21.920 can go check out the interviews with John Ward more 2402 01:57:21.920 --> 01:57:26.279 about that awesome dude. So yeah, Andy again, thank you 2403 01:57:26.399 --> 01:57:28.279 man for doing this. Appreciate you spending some of your 2404 01:57:28.319 --> 01:57:31.600 evening with us tonight and hope to talk to you soon. 2405 01:57:32.359 --> 01:57:33.079 Yeah, my pleasure. 2406 01:57:33.319 --> 01:57:34.920 And for your listeners, you guys are gonna come out 2407 01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:37.079 and we'll do one of the clear hot podcasts. I 2408 01:57:37.079 --> 01:57:42.119 think we agreed on November November November, yeah, right around mcmorn, 2409 01:57:42.239 --> 01:57:42.960 but not too far away. 2410 01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:45.600 And who do you have coming up on your show 2411 01:57:45.600 --> 01:57:46.960 that you wanna plug? 2412 01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:49.600 Well, hold on, we'll see what I got, like four 2413 01:57:49.680 --> 01:57:51.239 or five in the can. Let's see what I got here. 2414 01:57:51.359 --> 01:57:59.239 Okay, uh shit, I got some psychedelic research, uh stuff 2415 01:57:59.319 --> 01:57:59.680 coming up. 2416 01:58:01.239 --> 01:58:04.479 I have a firefighter, a repeat guest, a guy who 2417 01:58:04.560 --> 01:58:07.359 actually survived a suicide attempt and now does a bunch 2418 01:58:07.439 --> 01:58:09.840 of speaking in the Firefighter First respond to world about 2419 01:58:09.840 --> 01:58:13.800 the trauma that they carry as well too. A guy 2420 01:58:13.880 --> 01:58:17.279 that I did excreen bray officer actually who I did 2421 01:58:17.359 --> 01:58:21.439 some work with teaching pj's and CCT got into the 2422 01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:24.800 marijuana industry and had his farm illegally rated by a 2423 01:58:24.960 --> 01:58:27.680 sheriff's apartment in Los Angeles. Gonna bring a little bit 2424 01:58:27.680 --> 01:58:30.680 of light and hopefully some heat onto those fuckers. It 2425 01:58:30.760 --> 01:58:32.439 was on tribal land as well too, so there's some 2426 01:58:32.520 --> 01:58:34.039 nice federal guidelines that wo. 2427 01:58:34.079 --> 01:58:36.880 Wow, yeah, yeah, that's illegal with the fuck. 2428 01:58:36.840 --> 01:58:37.680 Yeah it is. 2429 01:58:38.560 --> 01:58:40.720 Yeah, it's almost as if there was I mean, if 2430 01:58:40.760 --> 01:58:42.800 only there was a software programmer app that you could 2431 01:58:42.880 --> 01:58:45.319 use to look to see own the property like onyx. 2432 01:58:46.880 --> 01:58:49.800 Then a guy who started x Seal who started the 2433 01:58:49.920 --> 01:58:52.199 beverage company kill Cliff and talked a bunch about just 2434 01:58:52.239 --> 01:58:54.359 being an entrepreneur in a Post nine eleven sealed named 2435 01:58:54.359 --> 01:58:56.600 todd Elrick. So that's kind of what's lined up coming 2436 01:58:56.680 --> 01:58:57.319 up for the next month. 2437 01:58:57.520 --> 01:58:57.760 Cool. 2438 01:58:59.159 --> 01:59:01.439 So everybody please check out Cleared Hot. 2439 01:59:01.680 --> 01:59:02.079 You'll love it. 2440 01:59:02.840 --> 01:59:06.800 If you had it already, you surprise yourself, all right, 2441 01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:08.640 al thank you very much, thank you, Thank you. 2442 01:59:08.760 --> 01:59:08.960 Andy. 2443 01:59:09.079 --> 01:59:14.920 We'll see you guys Friday. Yeah, see you guys. Hey, guys, 2444 01:59:14.960 --> 01:59:16.800 I want to tell all of you today about a 2445 01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:19.960 new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the team 2446 01:59:20.000 --> 01:59:24.159 House podcast, the eyes On podcast, and the high Side 2447 01:59:24.439 --> 01:59:27.880 News outlet, which I run with Sean Naylor. H The 2448 01:59:28.600 --> 01:59:31.039 newsletter is gonna be once a week. It's going to 2449 01:59:31.079 --> 01:59:33.359 come into your inbox and you're going to get the 2450 01:59:33.399 --> 01:59:36.840 most current podcasts on eyes On and the team House 2451 01:59:37.239 --> 01:59:41.000 and whatever's topical or current on the high Side. So 2452 01:59:41.279 --> 01:59:43.279 it's another way for us to get the information out 2453 01:59:43.319 --> 01:59:47.119 to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and 2454 01:59:47.199 --> 01:59:49.600 you never really know what you're gonna get. So this 2455 01:59:49.760 --> 01:59:51.800 is a once a week email. It'll slide into your 2456 01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:54.279 inbox and it will have you know the greatest hits 2457 01:59:54.359 --> 01:59:55.880 of that week. It's really good man. 2458 01:59:56.800 --> 01:59:57.359 Checking it out. 2459 01:59:58.319 --> 02:00:01.800 The website for it is Team house Podcast, dot kit 2460 02:00:01.960 --> 02:00:06.560 dot com, slash Join, Teamhouse Podcast dot kit dot com 2461 02:00:06.720 --> 02:00:07.479 slash join. 2462 02:00:08.079 --> 02:00:08.199 Uh. 2463 02:00:08.359 --> 02:00:10.439 You go there and you enter into your email list 2464 02:00:10.680 --> 02:00:14.239 or you enter your email into the little thing on 2465 02:00:14.359 --> 02:00:16.720 the website and you're good to go. And that'll be it. 2466 02:00:17.520 --> 02:00:20.560 So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider 2467 02:00:20.640 --> 02:00:24.079 signing up. Where's the link. The link will also be 2468 02:00:24.199 --> 02:00:26.560 down the description if you're looking for it there, and 2469 02:00:26.680 --> 02:00:31.720 That's Teamhouse Podcast, dot Kit, k I, t Kilo India, 2470 02:00:31.920 --> 02:00:35.680 Tango dot com backslash Join