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<v Speaker 1>Your morning news, getting ready for work at all day.

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<v Speaker 2>In fault and check in throughout the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five krc the Talk Station eight oh five, the

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five KRCD Talk Station. A very happy Friday Eve

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<v Speaker 1>to you. I heard media aviation expert Jay right left

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<v Speaker 1>the bottom of the air. I always look forward to

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<v Speaker 1>talking to Jay, and I've been looking forward to this

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<v Speaker 1>conversation for a some time. Mark Meckler, he's quite a guy,

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<v Speaker 1>and you probably are familiar with him if you don't

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<v Speaker 1>know his name. He is responsible for a bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>things political pundit. He's an attorney, fellow attorney, business executive

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<v Speaker 1>president of Citizens for Self Government Governance. And what we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be talking about a Convention of States actions, an

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<v Speaker 1>active proponent of a convention to propose amendens the United

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<v Speaker 1>States Constitution, a movement that's actually growing in size and strength.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the fifty five KRCEE Morning from Market. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a real pleasure to have you on today.

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<v Speaker 3>Good morning, brand, It's an honor to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, let's just start with the basics. Article five, Convention

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<v Speaker 1>of States. Explain to my listeners what this proposal will

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<v Speaker 1>allow us to do what is the goal ideally of

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<v Speaker 1>this action?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, you know it's funny that we have to explain it, Brian,

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<v Speaker 2>as a lawyer, I went to law school and realized

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<v Speaker 2>many years later and have actually read the Constitution in.

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<v Speaker 1>Law school, So I know, I have read the Constitution

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<v Speaker 1>since law school, but you don't really dive into it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so most people don't know about this. Article five

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<v Speaker 2>in the Constitution contains the ways in which we are

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<v Speaker 2>able to amend the Constitution.

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<v Speaker 3>It has two ways.

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<v Speaker 2>One is, when two thirds of Congress wants to propose

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<v Speaker 2>an amendment, they can do so, and then they send

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<v Speaker 2>that out to the states for ratification by three quarters

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<v Speaker 2>of the states or thirty eight states. The second way

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<v Speaker 2>the Framers gave to us is to call a convention

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<v Speaker 2>of states, and it takes two thirds of states or

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<v Speaker 2>thirty four states to call a convention. And the reason

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<v Speaker 2>they gave us this method, they said in convention that

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<v Speaker 2>they knew that the federal government would become a tyranny

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<v Speaker 2>at some point and that the states would have to

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<v Speaker 2>have a way to reign in the federal government. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's why they gave us this second clause of Article

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<v Speaker 2>five and basically What it does is allows the states,

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<v Speaker 2>when two thirds of them want to to gather in convention,

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<v Speaker 2>they have to state in advance the reasons they want

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<v Speaker 2>to gather in convention, and the states all have to agree.

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<v Speaker 2>Thirty four states have to agree on the reason, and

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<v Speaker 2>they can go to convention propose amendments. And the primary

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<v Speaker 2>reason is to restrain the federal government.

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<v Speaker 3>And so right now we have a movement going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen states have passed a resolution to impose term limits

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<v Speaker 2>on federal officials. That's the electeds, but also the deep

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<v Speaker 2>state that we're seeing so exposed right now, staffers and bureaucrats.

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<v Speaker 2>Number two, to impose fiscal restraints on the federal government,

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<v Speaker 2>like a balanced budget amendment, spending caps, tax caps, and

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<v Speaker 2>number three, and I think most importantly personally, is to

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<v Speaker 2>restrain the scope and jurisdiction of the federal government. So,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, when the President is talking about getting rid

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<v Speaker 2>of the Department of Education, I think that's great, but

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<v Speaker 2>we need to make that permanent administration. We'll put it

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<v Speaker 2>back in place, so you can have an amendment, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>that says there can be no involvement of the federal

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<v Speaker 2>government in education, and that would do a way with

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<v Speaker 2>a Department of Education permanently.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it seems to me. One of the easiest mechanisms

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<v Speaker 1>to achieve the goal of tearing back the excessive reach

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<v Speaker 1>of government springs from a case I know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>which involves the commerce clause Wickered versus Philburn, which allows

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<v Speaker 1>them to pretty much do anything they damn will please,

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<v Speaker 1>literally anywhere, simply because anything we do impacts interstate commerce,

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<v Speaker 1>even on a minuscule level.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's funny you bring up that case.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, so few people who are not lawyers know

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<v Speaker 2>about it. We who are lawyers know it's actually insane.

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<v Speaker 2>That case basically said there was a farmer in Ohio

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<v Speaker 2>who's growing wheat for the consumption of his own family,

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<v Speaker 2>and the federal government penalized him for growing too much wheat.

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<v Speaker 3>And he said, look, you have.

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<v Speaker 2>No authority over me because I didn't do anything other

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<v Speaker 2>than grow weak from my own family.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not engaged in interstate commerce.

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<v Speaker 2>And the federal government said, yeah, exactly, you didn't do anything,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that's why we can regulate you. You and

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<v Speaker 2>the court ruled that well, because he didn't sell his

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<v Speaker 2>wheat in interstate commerce, and he didn't buy weed in

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<v Speaker 2>interstate commerce.

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<v Speaker 3>He affected interstate commerce.

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<v Speaker 2>In other words, he did nothing so he could be regulated,

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<v Speaker 2>and that gave the federal government the power literally to

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<v Speaker 2>regulate just about anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't mean to move off topic, because that, to

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<v Speaker 1>me is such a critical case in expanding the size

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<v Speaker 1>of the scope of government. I mean, the EPA uses

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<v Speaker 1>it a teaspoon of water on your land and they

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<v Speaker 1>can regulate it. It's just it's insanity. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>ever in your or my lifetime that a can more

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<v Speaker 1>conservative Supreme Court which we currently have. It may even

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<v Speaker 1>be more conservative if Trump has his way and gets

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<v Speaker 1>more justices appointed. Would ever overturn the lunacy of that case?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we have no indication right now that that

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<v Speaker 2>would happen. I think they will pair back that case.

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<v Speaker 2>I want people to understand, because we're lawyers. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of just bring it to layman's terms, because

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<v Speaker 2>my mind works more like a layman. What we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about is the Supreme Court removing a so al for

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<v Speaker 2>the federal government to allow these agencies and these regulations.

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<v Speaker 2>And in other words, because of the Commerce Clause, the

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<v Speaker 2>federal government is allowed to have an EPA USDA, all

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<v Speaker 2>of these agencies, Department of Energy, Department of Education. Each

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<v Speaker 2>of these agencies requires authority under the Constitution. None of

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<v Speaker 2>them have it in writing under the Constitution. Right, this

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<v Speaker 2>is an interpretation by the Supreme Court creating that authority.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Court would have to say, ah, we were

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<v Speaker 2>wrong on that commerce cause case, not just that one,

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<v Speaker 2>but a.

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<v Speaker 3>Whole line of cases that follow it. Indeed, so I

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<v Speaker 3>think they might pair back on it.

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<v Speaker 2>But if we want to make dramatic progress on that,

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<v Speaker 2>we can do that in a Convention of States. We

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<v Speaker 2>can reinterpret or go back to the original interpretation of

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<v Speaker 2>the commerce clause, which actually just said that the federal

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<v Speaker 2>government has the power to regulate, which meant to smooth

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<v Speaker 2>out Back then, it didn't mean to prepare all these

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<v Speaker 2>regulations interstate commerce, and commerce meant the shipment.

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<v Speaker 3>Of goods across state line.

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<v Speaker 2>So all we're trying to do is prevent trade wars

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<v Speaker 2>between the state exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it just seems so simple a solution, and

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<v Speaker 1>I know everybody would face an uphill challenge getting a

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court to overturn that long standing, ridiculous precedent. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think some of the goals of Convention of the

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<v Speaker 1>States that you're talking about could be achieved if they.

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<v Speaker 3>Would reverse that.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's kind of that's kind of why I

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<v Speaker 1>initially gravitated towards me bring even bringing that case up, Mark,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, we need to amend the Constitution if

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<v Speaker 1>that one case was overturned and they took away the

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<v Speaker 1>federal government's power to regulate stuff that we are not

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<v Speaker 1>doing over across state lines.

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<v Speaker 2>So and yeah, look, you nailed it, Brian. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's really important. It would probably do a way, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't know the exact number, but probably do away with

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<v Speaker 2>forty to fifty percent of the federal government because they

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<v Speaker 2>just wouldn't have the authority to operate anyone Yay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, can we put that on a list of things

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<v Speaker 1>in the Convention of States to do to redefine the

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<v Speaker 1>commerce clause to actually mean cross state line commerce and

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<v Speaker 1>not just any activity that might somehow impact commerce generally.

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<v Speaker 2>I can guarantee you that's something that I will be

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<v Speaker 2>lobbying for if i'm that convention.

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<v Speaker 1>I love hearing it all right now people who are

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<v Speaker 1>against the idea of a Convention of States, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think you've already explained a way why this is not

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<v Speaker 1>a major concern because so many states have to approve,

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<v Speaker 1>like ratifying an amendment to the Constitution that acts as

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<v Speaker 1>a stop you know, a speed bumper, a stopgut measure

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<v Speaker 1>to avoid some terrible consequences. But some people are worried about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the so called runaway convention, and oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>if we convene a convention of states, all these left

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<v Speaker 1>wing liberal nutcases are going to you know, enshrine DEEI

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<v Speaker 1>as an amendment to the Constitution.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, the first thing I've say is we

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<v Speaker 2>have to know where our arguments come from.

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<v Speaker 3>And that argument was.

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<v Speaker 2>Created by the radical left in America in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventies and nineteen eighties, was led by Chief Justice Berger,

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<v Speaker 2>who's the guy that gave us Row versus Wade. And

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<v Speaker 2>he was being asked what he thought of his invention

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<v Speaker 2>to overturn roversus weight, and so of course he said, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a terrible idea, and he made up this thing,

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<v Speaker 2>which we'd never talked about before in American history, of

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of a runaway convention, where a convention could

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<v Speaker 2>propose all kinds of horrible things. Important to remember a

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<v Speaker 2>super majority of states have to agree in advance to

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<v Speaker 2>what the convention's about.

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<v Speaker 3>Takes thirty four states degree.

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<v Speaker 2>In advance what the limitations on conventions are, and I

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<v Speaker 2>talked about what the ones we're proposing are, so nothing

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<v Speaker 2>bad can happen under that. And then the ultimate stop

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<v Speaker 2>gap in the end is anything that comes out of

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<v Speaker 2>convention is just a suggestion. Literally, the convention has no power.

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<v Speaker 2>All they can do is discuss and suggest, and then

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<v Speaker 2>it takes thirty eight states to ratify. And Brian, here's

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<v Speaker 2>a thought experiment for you. I've given this to literally

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<v Speaker 2>millions of people. I give out my personal email address,

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<v Speaker 2>which is Mmeckler at coosaction dot com, and say, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're worried about this, and you're like me as conservative libertarian,

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<v Speaker 2>give me the amendment that you're worried about, and then

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<v Speaker 2>the thirty eight states that we're ratifying. And I can

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<v Speaker 2>tell you that in doing this for eleven plus years,

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<v Speaker 2>I've not received an email about.

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<v Speaker 1>It that speaks volumes mark. It really does, because you

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<v Speaker 1>have it at this for a long time, and Convention

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<v Speaker 1>the States has been discussed for a long time, and

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<v Speaker 1>for what I understand, the concept is really kind of

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<v Speaker 1>it shares bipartisan support. Now, I mean, if you've got

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<v Speaker 1>a majority of Democrats supporting it, which apparently there are,

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<v Speaker 1>and sixty two percent of independence supporting it, and or

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<v Speaker 1>seventy five percent of Republicans supporting it, why haven't more

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<v Speaker 1>states just approved the concept, Ohio being one of them.

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<v Speaker 1>They aren't marked in green on your map yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's Ohio has been really interesting to

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<v Speaker 2>me and a little bit frustrating. We have I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very comfortable we have majority support in both houses,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really been slowed down a little bit on

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<v Speaker 2>our side by leadership and a guy that I likes

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<v Speaker 2>a lot, Matt Huffman, who I think has been good

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<v Speaker 2>for the state, but he is a big advocate of

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of a Convention of States, but he's just

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<v Speaker 2>been slow to allow it through the legislature. And Franklin Ohio,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Huffman is the guy who has the power

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<v Speaker 2>in the legislature.

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<v Speaker 3>And so he's just been slow to go.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know him well, and I'm hoping this year

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<v Speaker 2>that we have the support of leadership in both houses.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're going to and I think we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get it done in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 1>This here, well, it seems to be that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in the last several days the Trump administration, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>they sprinted as soon as he was was done getting

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<v Speaker 1>sworn in. I mean, I just cannot just comprehend the

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<v Speaker 1>flory of activity and the amount of effort and work

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<v Speaker 1>that Trump has been able to accomplish. But I'm given

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<v Speaker 1>large credit to Elon Musk for exposing how much waste

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<v Speaker 1>there is in government held that USA Department and some

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<v Speaker 1>of the programs and stupid, stupid things we spent forty

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars on that has to run contrary to the

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<v Speaker 1>values of almost every American. You know, the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, funding gain of function research in the Wuhan

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<v Speaker 1>Institute of Virology alone, they've literally killed millions of people.

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<v Speaker 3>We paid for that.

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<v Speaker 1>What elected officials said that was a good idea? Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right, not one. So the revelation of the waste,

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<v Speaker 1>the revelation of all of this just absolute waste of

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<v Speaker 1>taxpayer dollars and the fact that we spend trillions of

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<v Speaker 1>dollars more than they take in every year. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>that crosses political lines. It's indefensible.

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<v Speaker 2>So it is and like you said, I mean across

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<v Speaker 2>party lines, people are in support this because it's just

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<v Speaker 2>common sense.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, first of all, most.

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<v Speaker 2>People don't know about it, like being started with when

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<v Speaker 2>they do and when you say, hey, what we would

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<v Speaker 2>like to do is keep these people from being in

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<v Speaker 2>DC for forty years.

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<v Speaker 3>What we'd like to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Is make them balance their budgets, balance their checkbooks like

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<v Speaker 2>every human has to do and frankly, almost every state

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<v Speaker 2>has to do.

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<v Speaker 3>And we want to take some power away from DC

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<v Speaker 3>and give.

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<v Speaker 2>It back to the states. You can see why that's nonpartisan.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, how California would get more power, New York

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<v Speaker 2>would get more power, Illinois would get more power, states

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<v Speaker 2>that are not conservatives, not just a conservative thing. It

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<v Speaker 2>just takes power away from the centralizers in DC and

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<v Speaker 2>frankly the tyrants in DC and gives it back to

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<v Speaker 2>the people.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it also seems with the Trump administration that your

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<v Speaker 1>idea of a Convention of States is probably going to

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<v Speaker 1>get even more widespread support because apparently Donald Trump's has

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<v Speaker 1>warmed up to the idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's been really interesting. I couldn't have

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<v Speaker 2>predicted this, No way I could have known. But we

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<v Speaker 2>put out a fourth quarter newsletter and there's a picture

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<v Speaker 2>on the cover which kind of blew me away. If

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the Trump administration right now, and you

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<v Speaker 2>look at who is in the Trump administration that has

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<v Speaker 2>expressed public support for Convention of States, you could start

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<v Speaker 2>with jd. Vance supported us when he was running for senator.

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<v Speaker 2>You got Mike Huckabe, who's going to be our ambassador

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<v Speaker 2>at Israel as one.

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<v Speaker 3>Of our early supporters.

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Hegseth is a very close friend and big supporter

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<v Speaker 2>now a new sect Death. The incoming Secretary of Agriculture,

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<v Speaker 2>Broock Rowlins, is a big supporter of ours. Caroline Levitt,

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<v Speaker 2>who's the star of the hour, I would say as

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<v Speaker 2>the new Press Secretary, was the support of ours when

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<v Speaker 2>she was running for the House of Representatives from New Hampshire.

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<v Speaker 2>So we've just got a whole bunch of people in

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<v Speaker 2>the admin around Trump. And we know Trump is looking

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<v Speaker 2>at long term legacy play and that's important. I love

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<v Speaker 2>that he doesn't have another term, So what's he going

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<v Speaker 2>to do to make things permanent? And a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that he's doing right now can be reversed by

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<v Speaker 2>a subsequent administration unless we.

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<v Speaker 3>Ensconce him in constitutional amendments.

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<v Speaker 2>So we do know there have been discussions inside the

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<v Speaker 2>inner circle in the White House about a Convention of States,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm looking forward to Trump's support.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and apparently you have some measure because he actually

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<v Speaker 1>reposted on his truth social media post Mark Levin's conversation

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<v Speaker 1>about the Convention of States and Mark Levin is a

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<v Speaker 1>huge fan of the concept.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, I was pretty excited to see that.

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<v Speaker 3>That's kind of out of the blue.

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<v Speaker 2>We had no idea that's coming, and so Trump posted this,

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<v Speaker 2>and right in there Mark's talking about his support for

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<v Speaker 2>Convention of States. So that's why we know what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on in the inner circles of the White House. We

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<v Speaker 2>also if you look at my ex account right now

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<v Speaker 2>just at Mark mecro, you'll see we've actually got billboards

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<v Speaker 2>up in the Austin, Texas area near the gigafactory with

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<v Speaker 2>Elon Musk on them with a chainsaw saying want to

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<v Speaker 2>cut government permanently, Elon, And so we're hoping to get

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<v Speaker 2>Elon on board as well.

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<v Speaker 3>The Vekram Miswami was already on board.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think we're getting very close to the point

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<v Speaker 2>where we'll see the administration and support openly.

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<v Speaker 1>So how many more states we need? I see that

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<v Speaker 1>on your map that you have highlighted in blue that

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<v Speaker 1>they have active legislation on this issue, you know, Nevada

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<v Speaker 1>and Montana and elsewhere. Of course Ohio isn't marked on that,

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<v Speaker 1>but maybe that that'll change. But how many more states

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<v Speaker 1>total do we need to sign on to the concept.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just fifteen to go.

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<v Speaker 2>We're well past the halfway mark, and I expect we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to see a bunch more come on this year.

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<v Speaker 2>We've got a bunch of states pending Iowa, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>While it's not on the map yet, it will get

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<v Speaker 2>filed this year and we expect to be moving forward

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<v Speaker 2>in Ohio. So we've got fifteen to go and we

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<v Speaker 2>are making a big push right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, what can my listeners do to learn more about

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<v Speaker 1>the specifics of this and perhaps help push it through?

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<v Speaker 1>For example, here in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>Go to Convention of States dot com, get signed up there,

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<v Speaker 2>click on sign the petition that will allow them to

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<v Speaker 2>send a notice to your legislators that you're in support,

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<v Speaker 2>and then call your legislators. This is the most important thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Get involved and let them know to support this. So

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<v Speaker 2>you do that, call your senator, call your representatives, and

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<v Speaker 2>then click on the take action tab on the website

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<v Speaker 2>and get signed up as a volunteer and getting gates all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, just add commerce clause to the list.

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<v Speaker 3>Mark okay, it's at the top of my list, and I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Promise Mark Meckler convention the state's president. Check them out online,

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<v Speaker 1>get signed up and send him an email if you

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<v Speaker 1>have an issue about it. Mmeckler at coosaction dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep up the great work, Mark. It's been a pleasure

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<v Speaker 1>having on the program to learn the specifics on this.

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<v Speaker 1>I look forward hopefully to talk with you again as

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<v Speaker 1>we get closer and closer to the concept.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, thanks Frank, God bless.

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<v Speaker 1>My pleasure and God bless you. Eight twenty one right now,

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<v Speaker 1>stick around Jay Ratliff's coming up. I always love talking

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<v Speaker 1>to Jay, exhaling and relaxing for the balance of the hour.

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<v Speaker 1>Stick around you right back fifty five KRC dot com.