WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.800 Welcome to part two of our series about the Bishop 2 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:34.399 family murders. Let's jump right in, yeah, because he just 3 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:36.560 strikes me as someone who was just so sick of 4 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.719 his current life and felt that he wasn't living up 5 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:42.079 to expectations. So he wanted to start afresh and maybe 6 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.399 start a new family someday, but do it in like 7 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:48.159 a completely different country where he's away from everyone. They 8 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:50.200 did perform a search of the park and found no 9 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:52.439 trace of him, so there is no evidence that he 10 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:54.719 may have killed himself. I guess the one thing that 11 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.039 gives me pause is that this was a pretty remote 12 00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.560 area and if he abandoned his vehicle, he would need 13 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.280 transportation elsewhere in order to go to the nearest airport. 14 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:07.599 There are no reports of any hitchhikers matching his description 15 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:09.799 during that time period, but he was seen in the 16 00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:12.599 company of a dark skinned woman, so if he was 17 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.120 in the relationship, it's possible he could have abandoned the 18 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:17.799 station wagon and she had a vehicle of her own, 19 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:19.920 and so she was the one who drove him out 20 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.480 of the area and possibly took him to an airport. 21 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.599 You've got a wonder too, if this poor woman is 22 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.560 still alive if she was indeed with him, because you 23 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:33.239 would think he would want to leave no witnesses behind. 24 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.480 Either she's going to be coming with him and going 25 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:39.280 the distance, or at some point if he feels like 26 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:43.079 she's a threat to his safety and security and that 27 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:46.439 she has information that would be highly valued to law 28 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:48.879 enforcement and that she might be willing to share it, 29 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:51.719 I would think that he would not think for a 30 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.959 second but to end her life. So at this point, 31 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:58.159 so many years later, if she did indeed exist and 32 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:00.640 she was with him and they just like broke up, 33 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:02.719 you'd think that she would come forward. 34 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:06.760 Yes, I think that if she was involved in a relationship, 35 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:08.800 she had no idea what he was doing, because we 36 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:11.840 have seen documented cases where people are willing to hook 37 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:14.719 up with men who have murdered their wives. But I 38 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:16.560 think that most women would draw the line at a 39 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.080 family annihilator, thinking that if he's capable of like bludgeoning 40 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.159 his own mother and his children with a sledgehammer, that's 41 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:24.520 not someone I want to spend the rest of my 42 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:27.680 life with because he's obviously someone who's capable of flying 43 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.599 off the handle and killing someone, So my own safety 44 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:31.319 would be at risk. 45 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:36.280 Well, hybristophelia is a real thing. And all you need 46 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.039 to look to for reference that there's plenty of women 47 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.439 out there who are willing is all of the fan 48 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.080 mail and all of the attention that Chris Watts gets. 49 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.000 It's true. Yeah, so some people think that if a 50 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:48.960 man is charming and up are good lucky enough, they 51 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.560 are willing to put up with anything. But since you 52 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.120 mentioned wondering what happened to this woman, and I'm sure 53 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.000 you're wondering about the fate of Leo the Dog, it 54 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.879 turned out that weeks after the search of Great Smoky 55 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.080 Mountains National Park included a park ranger was told by 56 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.879 an acquaintance that they had seen a makeshift grave at 57 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.919 a spot about a mile away from the parking lot 58 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.599 where the station wagon had been abandoned. The park ranger, 59 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:16.840 his name was Dwight McCarter, decided to go out and 60 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.479 check the area, and he did say that he found 61 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.080 a small grave which was marked by a pile of 62 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:24.599 rocks and a wooden cross, and it appeared to have 63 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:28.560 been tied together by a parachute cord. So he actually 64 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:30.719 took photos of the grave, so we do know that 65 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.240 it existed, but for whatever reason, he didn't tell anybody 66 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:36.960 about this for years, and I think the first time 67 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.560 this was released publicly was maybe like twenty eighteen or so, 68 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.680 which is when they finally decided to publish these photographs 69 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.400 in the newspaper of this Cross. And of course by 70 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.520 the time he told everyone, they tried to do a 71 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.080 search and find this grave, but the area had become 72 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.599 so overgrown that they have been able to track it down. 73 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.199 But there's been speculation that perhaps this is what happened 74 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.680 to the poor dot Leo, that Brad decided, I can't 75 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.120 take the dog with me if I'm traveling overseas, so 76 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.719 maybe he decided to kill it, and because he still 77 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.199 had a respect for Leo, he decided to give him 78 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.159 the dignity of a makeshift grave, which is a sharp 79 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:16.360 contrast to murdering your entire family and setting their bodies 80 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:17.319 in fire in a grave. 81 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.680 That's wild. If that was indeed Leo, to honor your 82 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.639 dog with a cross and to bury him, and to 83 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:26.639 just treat your family like we're just going to leave 84 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:29.079 your bodies out there in the open. I still think 85 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:31.399 he was interrupted and that he intended to bury them, 86 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.879 not because he was honoring them or because he cared, 87 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:36.160 but because he didn't want to get caught and he 88 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:38.399 was going to use them not being able to be 89 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:40.920 found as some kind of subter views where it's like, oh, 90 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.800 he's disappeared as well. Maybe he is also the victim. 91 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:47.879 But it's interesting that he waited until twenty eighteen to 92 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.839 come out with this because he knew about the station 93 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:52.839 wagon being abandoned there, did he not? 94 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.600 I think so? Yeah, But maybe he just didn't put 95 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:58.759 two and two together and figured that this might have 96 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.319 a connection to there's wanted fugitive we've been trying to 97 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:05.120 find in this same park. And while this might be 98 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.600 a long shot, I suppose an alternate explanation is that 99 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.680 if he decided to kill his female companion, maybe he 100 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.800 buried her in that makeshift grave. I mean, I was 101 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.639 thinking that if he killed her, that maybe he wouldn't 102 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.000 go to the trouble of doing a wooden cross to 103 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.399 mark the territory because he wouldn't want her body to 104 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.959 be found. But I guess it is an alternate possibility. 105 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:27.560 But I still think that most likely Leo was buried 106 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.160 there because he probably didn't care well if they find 107 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.040 Leo's body. I'm already a wanton murderer anyway, so it's 108 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:34.279 not going to make much difference. 109 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.959 Yeah, I agree. I think that there's a strong likelihood 110 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.639 that if it was tied to him, that it was Leo. 111 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.560 I mean, in my heart, I want to believe that 112 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.399 like Leo continued to live his best life and found 113 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.920 a new family and you know, lived to a happy 114 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.680 like old age. But given what we know about William 115 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:58.519 Bradford Bishop and how easy it is for him to 116 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.560 kill those who he supposed to loves, I would think 117 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.759 that the probabilities high that that makeshift grave was indeed Leo. 118 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.199 And like you said, I don't think it was the 119 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.120 female companion, because you don't want to go to the 120 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.079 If you're going to go to the effort to bury 121 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:16.279 this person, which we know that he doesn't do to 122 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.399 honor people, because with his family he didn't seem to care. 123 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:21.839 You're going to do it to conceal, and if your 124 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.519 objective is to conceal, you're not going to then use 125 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:26.519 a cross to draw attention to that grave. 126 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.079 Yeah, exactly, So I do think that in his twisted mind, 127 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.240 he was like, well, I still love Leo, but if 128 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.480 I'm going to take an international flight, I can't take 129 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:36.560 my dog, so I'm going to give him a proper 130 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.759 burial in this peaceful place. So over the years there 131 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:41.920 would be a number of eye into citings of Bishop, 132 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:44.160 but there were three that stand out because they were 133 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.160 made by people who personally knew him and work with them, 134 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:50.959 and all of them were overseas. The first one took 135 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.680 place in July of nineteen seventy eight and was a 136 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.079 Swedish woman who had worked with Brad when he was 137 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:59.639 posted in Ethiopia years earlier, and she claimed that on 138 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.639 two separate occasions within the span of one week, the 139 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:05.800 woman claimed that she saw a bearded man resembling Brad 140 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.959 at a public park in Stockholm, and she believed he 141 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:11.319 was following her. But at the time she was not 142 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.600 yet aware that Bishop had become a wanted fugitive. But 143 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:16.759 once she learned about it, she reported her sightings to 144 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.199 the authorities, but by that time so much time had 145 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:21.800 passed they were unable to track him down. 146 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:25.120 Yeah, that makes sense, and I think that what is 147 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:27.879 somebody that he's worked with. I would say there's like 148 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:31.720 a high validity to the sighting and it actually could 149 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.480 have been William Bradford Bishop, because I don't think he 150 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:36.399 ever took his own life, and I don't think that 151 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:39.040 he remained in that park for any great length of time. 152 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.560 I think his objective was always to go overseas. So 153 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:42.480 this checks. 154 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.360 Out exactly, and it becomes more believable when you hear 155 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:47.920 my story about the next sighting, which took place six 156 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.279 months later in January of nineteen seventy nine. And this 157 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:54.759 one is more believable because it involves Roy Harrell, who 158 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.079 was the person who he worked with at the State 159 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.839 Department who spoke with him about not making the promotion 160 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:02.720 on the list when he left work on the day 161 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:05.319 of the murders. I know that Harrol was on a 162 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.040 trip to Italy and was in the town of Sorrento, 163 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:10.519 and he was waiting to board a bus to Rome, 164 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.800 but decided to go into a restroom and it wasn't 165 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.399 long before a disheveled looking man who looked like a 166 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.600 transient walked inside, and even though he had shaggy hair 167 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:22.399 and a beard, Roy looked at him and said, whoa, 168 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.959 he has a striking resemblance to brad Bishop. And he 169 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.879 claimed that he actually said, you're Brad Bishop, aren't you. 170 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:30.600 And you would think that if this is a complete stranger, 171 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.600 they might not even understand English and just look confused. 172 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.879 But according to Roy, this guy just panicked and yelled 173 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:40.039 oh my god no in what sounded like an American accent, 174 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.159 and then ran out. And you should watch the Unsolved 175 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.279 Mystery segment because the reenactment of the seat is unintentionally 176 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:49.240 hilarious because of the bad acting where he goes, oh 177 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:52.080 my god ah and runs out screaming, and the actor 178 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:55.879 playing Roy goes, Brad, wait stop, don't reg and stuff 179 00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:00.000 like that. And I remember watching this segment on Unsolved 180 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.519 Mysteries with my father, who's a commercial airline pilot who 181 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.440 has traveled the world for decades, and he says, this 182 00:09:06.519 --> 00:09:08.519 sort of thing has happened to me, where I just 183 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:12.679 randomly bump into friends and colleagues I know in foreign countries. 184 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.559 I mean, I haven't run into any like former colleagues 185 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:19.240 who were wanted murderers. But these sort of chance encounters 186 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.639 do happen sometimes where you're over on the other side 187 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.440 of the world and you just happen to bump into 188 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:24.200 people you know. 189 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:28.519 Oh yeah, like pre COVID. My husband used to travel 190 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.200 for work all the time, and he'd been all over 191 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.879 the world and it happened to him several times where 192 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.840 he'd bump into somebody that he knew randomly in countries. 193 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.879 So it seems improbable. But if you're going to be 194 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.519 traveling around and the thing is he's exposed to people 195 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:45.960 that travel a lot for work, right and it was 196 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.840 the same thing with my husband. So if that is 197 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.960 the case, then it increases the probability that you're then 198 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.360 going to bump into them in one of these locations 199 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.559 that they're known to be exactly. 200 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.679 And I can imagine if this was legitimate, like Brad's 201 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:02.399 reaction would be like that, like I'm trying to hide 202 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:04.240 out from the authorities and one of the odds that 203 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:07.440 I run into my former co worker thousands of miles 204 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:10.960 away in Italy in a restroom. So but I guess 205 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:13.120 over the years there have been people who have questioned 206 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.240 Roy Harrel's credibility because he has often done interviews surrounding 207 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.120 this case. I think he kind of likes the attention 208 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.279 of being the last person who saw Brad Bishop alive 209 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:25.679 before he killed his family. And a couple years later, 210 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.720 someone decided to call his bluff and say that ask 211 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.159 him a question, do you know about Brad's connection with 212 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:34.679 this certain person of interest? And then Roy said, well, 213 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:36.919 I'll check into that and get back to you. And 214 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.279 then he came back and spoke to this journalist and 215 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.000 said that, oh, yeah, I know all about Brad's relationship 216 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.399 with this person. They worked together at such and such. 217 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.679 And then the journalist said, the problem is this person 218 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:50.000 doesn't exist. I just made him up, and you just 219 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.360 came up with this fake story about him and Brad 220 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.320 being close associates. So they kind of think that Roy 221 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:59.399 Harold did have like a tendency to like fabricate things 222 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.519 for attention. So that has made people believe a wonder 223 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.919 if this actual encounter with them in the bathroom in 224 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.240 Italy actually happened. 225 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.840 Given what you've just told me, it makes me question. 226 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:13.759 It sounds a lot more specific, and it sounds like, Okay, 227 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.480 there's a potential that, yeah, that could have happened, But 228 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.600 did it? Is he just putting a little sauce on it. 229 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:24.519 Is it possible that he saw somebody that like, maybe 230 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:26.440 looked a little bit like him and he just added 231 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:27.759 some to the story. 232 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.360 That is possible that he did see a guy look 233 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:32.879 like Brad, but he didn't give off that shocked reaction 234 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.639 and run away. That maybe he just exaggerated that part 235 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.159 of the story. And I know that Roy in his 236 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.519 Unsolved Mysteries interview has kind of gotten a lot of 237 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.759 heat for making this one comment. I'm going to share 238 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.639 it word for word. Quote Brad Bishop felt from the 239 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.320 time I knew him that there was something lacking in himself. 240 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:51.480 This feeling was nourished constantly by both his mother and 241 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.240 to some degree, his wife, who constantly told him that 242 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.000 he was inadequate and washed up and wasn't going anywhere 243 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.720 in his career. End quote. Well, I've read from other 244 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.519 people who knew Annette and a Lobilia who say that 245 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.799 those claims are greatly exaggerated about them belittling Brad constantly. 246 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.879 So people have always thought that Roy's interview almost kind 247 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:12.559 of sounds like victim blaming, Like he's almost saying that 248 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.080 they they negg Brad too much, that they pretty much 249 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.080 drove him to commit the murders. 250 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.639 It's one hundred percent victim blaming. But in his defense, 251 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:27.279 he's probably told by Brad that this is what's happening, 252 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.000 and I'm sure that it's being greatly exaggerated. And that's 253 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.960 the problem. When you're only getting one perspective, you're not 254 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:37.480 getting this like holistic perspective where he's hearing from a 255 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:42.440 net in Lubilia about William Bradford Bishop, his behavior and 256 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:45.559 his tendencies, just the type of man that he is. 257 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.240 From them, you're just hearing about how he's being stifled, 258 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:53.200 and he is blaming them, probably for his inability to 259 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.440 be able to reach his full potential when he really 260 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:58.840 needs to look in a mirror and start taking some 261 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:02.360 personal accountability. And I'm sure that they did have criticism 262 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.720 for him because he did things that needed to be criticized. 263 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.440 At times, he sounds like he just had this idea 264 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.360 that he is the man everything needs to go through him. 265 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.159 And I'm sure that that was stifling for a net 266 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.120 and I'm sure was stifling for Lubilia as well, when 267 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.480 he's probably looking to her as is like constant atm 268 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.879 and then the money runs out and it's like, oh 269 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:25.879 now he's got to stand on his own, and he's 270 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:28.000 like this little toddler throwing a tantrum. 271 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.279 Yeah, because I really don't know how familiar Roy was 272 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:33.840 with Loubilia and Annette if he spent much time with 273 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.840 the Bishop family, so it's possible because they were co workers. 274 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.399 Everything he was saying was what Brad told him. That 275 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:42.360 maybe Brad privately complained to him that my mother and 276 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.879 my wife are nagging me so much, and Brad just 277 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:47.480 took that as gospel, not realizing Roy just took that 278 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.159 as gospel, not realizing that, Yeah, you're speaking with a 279 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.559 narcissist here who's probably going to stretch the truth to 280 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.519 try to pain himself in the best possible light. 281 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.919 And like, what are the chances that even if Roy 282 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.080 was acquainted with a net in Lubilia that they would 283 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.120 bright him in front of him? Do you know what 284 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.679 I mean? Like you've got guests over, like let's criticize 285 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:09.480 William Bradford Bishop and do it in front of Roy 286 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.080 and make him and really just make him the victim here, 287 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.080 Like I just don't think that ever happened. 288 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.919 No, probably not. I don't think he personally witnessed it. 289 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:21.960 So the last eyewitness sighting that took place in Europe 290 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:24.600 was in September of nineteen ninety four, and this is 291 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.799 after the Bishop case got lots of new national exposure 292 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:31.440 because he was featured on Unsolved Mysteries and America's Most 293 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.399 Wanted and the witness was a former neighbor of the 294 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:37.279 best Shop family from Bethesta, who claimed that she was 295 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.679 on vacation with her husband and saw a bishop through 296 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.320 the window of a train on a platform, and said 297 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.159 that he made direct eye contact and appeared to laugh 298 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.440 at them as the train pulled away. And it's never 299 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.159 been confirmed that this sighting was legitimate. But what's interesting 300 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:55.600 is that she described Brad as looking well groomed, whereas 301 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.639 the sightings from the nineteen seventies described him as having 302 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:00.960 shaggy here and a beard, which made it look like 303 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:03.039 he was a transient of some sort and may not 304 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.480 have had a home. So if she is telling the truth, 305 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.480 that makes you wonder did Brad have a few rough 306 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:10.519 years over there where he was wandering on the streets 307 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:13.600 living as a transient. But by the nineteen nineties, perhaps 308 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.000 he had established a new identity and got a new 309 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.000 job somewhere and it improved as in his station in life, 310 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.440 and was living comfortably somewhere in Switzerland. 311 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.080 I mean, that's entirely possible. I do question, like you're 312 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.320 seeing somebody on a train platform. How close of a 313 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.039 look can you truly get? And I mean if we 314 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.519 look back at the seventies, I would think that maybe 315 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.440 living this kind of transient lifestyle or having this big 316 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:42.080 beard would be part of him trying to conceal his 317 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.440 identity because I would think that like interpol or you know, 318 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.960 the authorities would be looking for him. So anything you 319 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.960 can do to look different than you would typically look, 320 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.159 the pictures that would be circulated, I think would serve 321 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.639 you in being able to evade authorities if they were 322 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.639 ever onto you being in that country. And then by 323 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:05.840 the nineties it's like, well it's not as hot as 324 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:07.879 it used to be, and I've been living this life 325 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.159 and maybe he met people and got opportunities because we 326 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.399 know he's a smart guy, that it's very possible that 327 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.200 maybe he stole somebody else's identity. We don't know what 328 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.759 happened and if it was indeed him, but I think 329 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:21.759 it's possible. 330 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.440 Certainly is And like we see in every case involving 331 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:28.000 missing persons and wanted fugitives, that there's going to be 332 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:31.759 like hundreds of eyewitness sightings, but the authorities generally only 333 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.240 report on the ones that they believe are credible, and 334 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.120 these ones, even though they took place thousands of miles away, 335 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:39.919 they were all from people who knew Bishop personally, so 336 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.120 they probably thought, well, they probably got a better chance 337 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.519 of recognizing him than rather than your average citizen. So 338 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.240 another crazy story about associated with this case is that 339 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:51.159 the Bishop family were close friends with a guy named 340 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.320 Jacques d'ambois, who was one of the most famous ballet 341 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:57.039 dancers in the world because he was kind of a 342 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.679 child protege who was ballet dancing when he was in 343 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.279 his tea means, and in the nineteen fifties he joined 344 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.440 a traveling ballet troupe that was operating out of California, 345 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:10.440 and because Loubilia and her husband were big ballet fans, 346 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.960 they actually invited Jocque to live with her family in 347 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.720 California during that time period so he could have a 348 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.559 place to say, well, he was traveling and performing with them, 349 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.759 and Jacques became friends with Brad when Brad was still 350 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.039 a teenager, so they stayed in touch for years, and 351 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.440 by nineteen seventy six, Jacques was like a very famous 352 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.440 dancer who was invited to perform at the Kennedy Center 353 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.319 for the Performing Arts in Washington, DC, and he got 354 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.640 in touch with Obilia and she actually invited Jacques and 355 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.680 his wife Carrie to spend the night of the bishop 356 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.400 residence in Bethesda after his performances were done on the 357 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.200 evening of February the twenty ninth, But then at the 358 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.000 last minute, Jacques suffered a foot injury and was forced 359 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:54.359 to cancel his performance. Well, the night he was supposed 360 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.440 to go there was the night before Bishop committed the 361 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.160 family murders. So Jacques is always been haunted about that, 362 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.559 saying that if me and my wife had been staying there, 363 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.920 would that have prevented the murders from taking place? Or alternatively, 364 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.359 would we have become victims too and been murdered because 365 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:13.039 we happened to be there. So he just got very, 366 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:15.319 very lucky that he suffered that foot injury because it 367 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.200 prevented him from potentially becoming a victim in a family annihilation. 368 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.559 I mean, I guess we don't know the dynamics of 369 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.480 their friendship and how close they were, and if that 370 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:30.720 would be prohibitive to William Bradford Bishop in committing the murders, 371 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.839 or if he would just go, oh, what's two other people. 372 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.640 I'm already killing those closest to me. What is it 373 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.240 to me that I killed this person whom like I 374 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:42.160 used to be close to but it's been years and 375 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:46.279 his wife. I just don't think that there would be 376 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.480 really anything that would stand in his way if that 377 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.319 was his plan. So I just think that Jacques getting 378 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:57.079 that foot injury was maybe his saving grace pretty much. 379 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.680 Yeah, And some people have said, don't blame yourself, because 380 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:01.440 even if you had been there that night and it 381 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:03.720 prevented Brad from committing the murders, he was still a 382 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.119 taking time bomb. So he probably still would have done 383 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.519 it eventually, even if it was just a couple days later. 384 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.559 Oh for sure, I don't think it would have gotten 385 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:13.720 in the way of his plan. The only thing, if 386 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.680 you decided that Jacques and his wife being there, he 387 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.039 wasn't going to kill his family those days. I would 388 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.720 just think that maybe he would have just been more 389 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.480 prepared and we wouldn't have had that receipt with his 390 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.359 credit card from the sporting goods company and like days later, 391 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:28.640 right exactly. 392 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:30.160 Yeah, that he might have just done it at a 393 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.079 different time and maybe spent more time formulating his plan. 394 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.480 So In September of nineteen ninety two, a very surprising 395 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.400 development took place when investigators decided to check Brad's original 396 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.000 personnel file from the State Department and discovered a letter 397 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.559 that had been written to him by a career bank 398 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.640 robber named Albert Kenneth Bankston, who in nineteen seventy six 399 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:57.599 was incarcerated at the United States Penitentiary Marion in Williamson County, Illinois. 400 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.559 The letter was postmarked March fifteenth, nineteen seventy six, two 401 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.839