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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: This is Mike Pokowitz, a golf instructor in Philadelphia, PA,

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and I coach at Five Iron Golf and Play Around Golf.

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Speaker 3: This is golf Smarter.

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Speaker 2: Golf Smarter number four hundred and seventy one, published on

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January thirteen, twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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Speaker 5: You have to take them on the golf course. I

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don't think you can teach that management standing on the

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driving range. What I would do is get that person

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on the golf course, stand on the tee and look

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down the fairway and have them tell me what's out there,

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What do they see? Where's the trouble? Where don't you

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want to go? And they'll convince themselves they say, well,

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it's all water down the right hand side. I definitely

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don't want to go there. So you get them to

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actually see a picture of the hole and where's the

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best place to play that and then start working on

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club selection. You know, this is a little tight driving hole.

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What club do you have the most confidence in it?

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You know, I really like my seven with Okay, so

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hit your seven with office teeth with the next shot

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and play get it inside one hundred yards to the

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green and then get it on the green to walk away.

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Speaker 1: With bogie.

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Speaker 3: Letting go of the bad shots with Tom Good.

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Speaker 4: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers

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and golf professionals to help blower your score. It's worked

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for your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Tom.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Fred, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much for reaching

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out to me via LinkedIn. Nope, that's interesting how many

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people will do that. But I appreciate you doing that

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because there were a couple things in your introductory let

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that really stood out to me. That mostly which is

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that you teach golfers how to manage a golf course.

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And I think that is such an important part of

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the game that most people don't really get and I

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want to spend some time on that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that sounds good, but before.

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Speaker 2: We do that, let's establish who you are, where you

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come from, what you're doing these days, and why in

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the fact, why in the heck that I'm talking to

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you today.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you it's been kind of a long,

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fun journey for me. I've been in this business all

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my life, pretty much as a child.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in it. I've played professionally.

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Speaker 5: I've played in college, and when I ended up not

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being able to make the money I needed to make professionally,

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I figured I could probably teach the game better than

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I could play it, so I gravitated into teaching. In fact,

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I started my first lessons in nineteen seventy two at

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Lincoln Park Golf Course in San Francisco, and the last

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twenty two years I spent well, actually it's probably a

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little longer ago than that, twenty two years at Almonden

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Country Club as the director of instruction and head golf professional.

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And then four years ago I made a move to

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go strictly back into teaching full time at Center Bar

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Hills Golf Club in San Jose, where I'm the director

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of instruction.

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Speaker 3: Very good.

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Speaker 2: So, when you said you played professionally, tell me a

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little bit about that. That always is intriguing to me.

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Speaker 5: Well, it was you know, I had worked in the

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club business for a little while as a young guy

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right out of college, and decided that I'd like to

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try to play the.

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Speaker 1: Game for a living.

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Speaker 5: So I did the whole deal of going through the

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tour school qualifying after working for about five years, you know,

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not playing a lot of competitive golf, and I went

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and missed the first stage of the tour school by

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one shot. So I thought, hey, you know, maybe let's

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pursue this. So I played mini tour golf in Arizona

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and around California for about two years, and I'll never

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forget my first first round as a professional. I shot

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sixty seven. I felt absolutely fantastic, and I went into

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the scoreboard and I was six shots behind the lead

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after one round.

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Speaker 3: So one of the best rounds of your life. And

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it's like exactly, and you're not.

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Speaker 5: Thinking, that's as boud as good as I can play,

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and I was six packs. So and that was quite

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a while ago. That was when everybody wasn't quite as

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good as they are today.

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Speaker 1: So but I did play for a.

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Speaker 5: While, and you know, then when kind of that kind

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of served its purpose, I got back into the club

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professional business and concentrating a lot on teaching. That was

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when I really decided that was what I wanted to do.

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And so I've been teaching pretty much off and on

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for forty years, the last thirty years exclusively teaching.

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Speaker 2: So great, Great, I want to go back to that

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first round that you had when you were playing professionally.

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Is that one a three or four day tournament?

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Speaker 5: It was, I, you know, my memories, that was quite

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a few years ago, but I believe they were three

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day tournaments at that time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So you know, it's so fun to watch recreational

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amateur golfers who get frustrated that they don't get better

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every single round, and they'll go out and shoot a

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eighty five and be ecstatic about it and think that

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they've got everything figured out. And the next day they'll

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go out and shoot a ninety seven and you know,

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it can range ten strokes on any given day. Do

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you happen to remember, you know, you shoot a sixty seven,

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you're stoked, you're pumped up, and then the next day

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do you have any recollection of how you did that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I believe it was somewhere close to PARR. But

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I think what happens is you go out and shoot

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around like that. Then the next day you go back

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out and try to do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: And as soon as you start trying to.

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Speaker 5: Do something in this game, that's when you get into trouble.

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Speaker 2: Oh please expand on that. That's really an interesting concept.

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It's when you try to do something exactly.

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Speaker 5: And I kind of use the analogy a lot in teaching.

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When we get in on a car and drive down

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the road or down the street going to the store

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or wherever, we really don't think about the mechanics of

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driving the car. We don't think about getting in, fasten

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our seat belt, doing all those things that need to

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get us there. We just end up at our destination

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and sometimes you stop and wonder, oh, wow, here's my exit.

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I got to get off the road right here. Well,

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what happens a lot of times when you get on

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that golf course and you've.

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Speaker 1: Just had a really good round.

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Speaker 5: You go back to the course the next day and

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you say, now, what was I doing?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I was.

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Speaker 5: I think I must have been turning really well, I

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was using my body well, and you start thinking about

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the mechanics of the golf swing rather than just playing

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the game, looking at the golf course and picking your

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target and.

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Speaker 1: Just letting your swing work. What you've been teaching it.

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Speaker 2: Are you telling me that we think too much when

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we're on the golf course.

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Probably got ninety nine percent of us do that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, you're just trying to figure out And

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I think as humans we have this tendency to always

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be trying to figure things out. Whether we've hit a

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bad shot, we try to figure.

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Speaker 1: Out what we did wrong.

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Speaker 5: Then when we hit a good shot, we try to

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figure out what we did.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: Or you have a good shot and you think it's

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an anomaly and you're going, yeah, but I'm hitting bad

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shots today, and you keep focused on the bad shot exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well that good shot wasn't me. That was a mistake,

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you know.

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Speaker 5: So I'm the guy that hits it out of bounds

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and left all the time, So right right, that was

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someone else in my body.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Where'd you play in college?

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Speaker 1: I played at BYU Okay, very good.

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Speaker 5: I played for a couple of years there and then

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went to work at my family golf course after that,

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and that was kind of when.

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Speaker 1: I got into the business.

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Speaker 2: At that time, wea a family golf course. So you

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said you were in at your entire life. What is

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a family golf course?

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Speaker 5: My family, my father was a golf professional, and we

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grew up. I can remember as a kid ten eleven

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years old picking the driving range, doing all the work,

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washing the carts. So I've been in it pretty much

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all my life, which is I'm sixty three years old

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right now, so I've been around it a long time,

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seeing a.

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Speaker 1: Lot, done a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right. So now I'm thinking, you're a

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teenage boy. You're working in You're working for your family,

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You're driving the golf, you know, picking up balls off

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the driving range, and you're saying to yourself, I am not.

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Speaker 3: Going to be in this business. This is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I mean, were there times that you were going, Okay,

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this is not going to work for me, I'm going

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to be an accountant.

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Speaker 1: Nope.

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Speaker 5: Never never had that thought I was going to play

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I was going to play professionally. It was I think

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I've had maybe two other part time jobs in my

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entire life outside of golf, which were that was when

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I was in high school. I sold men's clothing for

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a while, and then I got a job one time

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for a fencing company, and I found out that I

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was the only they hired me because I had a

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driver's license. It wasn't anything about building fences.

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Speaker 1: I could drive the truck, so you know, that was

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why I was about eighteen years old. So anyway, and

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that was it.

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Speaker 5: Then from then on, it's been golf, all aspects of golf.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Do you have siblings.

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Speaker 5: I do.

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Speaker 3: Did they go in the business as well?

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Speaker 2: Or are they the ones that said I am not

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going to do this.

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Speaker 5: Let's just say that they started in it. We were

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all in it one time, and they got smart and

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got out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're the bad good right, the bad member

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of the good family.

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Speaker 5: He Yeah, I had an older brother that went into

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the superintendent business, taking care of the golf courses rather.

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Speaker 1: Than than being the golf professional. But yeah, we were

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all in it one time.

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Speaker 3: That's awesome.

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Speaker 5: At one point, all four of us, my father and

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my two brothers, we were all pros at the same time.

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Speaker 3: So awesome.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's great, great story, Thank you. Let's go back

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to us. Let's let's figure out what we're doing wrong here.

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And I love the idea of talking about thinking too

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much and and you know, I know that there's times

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where I'm playing well and I'll focus more on the

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fact that I'm feeling confident as opposed.

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Speaker 3: To knowing what I did right.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So because I I just you know, I hear

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so often and talk talking to so many instruction instructors

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that confidence is such a key to every shot.

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Speaker 3: Tell me your thoughts on that.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think, you know, confidence obviously is vital, but

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I kind of look at it like which which comes first,

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the confidence or the consistency of doing something. You know,

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in a routine where you're you're practicing the right things

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and you're practicing your tempo and all that, and then

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so you start hitting better shots, and then out of.

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Speaker 1: Those better shots comes the confidence.

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Speaker 5: So you know, it's you know what came first, the

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egg or the chicken, you know, So you have to

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have that consistency in the golf swing and be practicing

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the right things.

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Speaker 1: To create the confidence.

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Speaker 5: So and then once you feel that confidence on the

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golf course, the hardest part is just just trusting yourself

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and believing.

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Speaker 1: In what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And also, I would think it's really important to understand

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and be at peace with yourself and knowing things happen

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out of your control, that there are going to be

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bad shots, there are going to be bad results to

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good shots.

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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.

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Speaker 5: That's one of the things that it's really hard to

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work with younger players sometimes because.

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Speaker 1: They're you know, they think they're.

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Speaker 5: Immune to ever hitting a bad shot. So they could

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be really really good players, but.

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Speaker 1: They, like you say, they bad.

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Speaker 5: Shots are as much a part of the game as

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the good shots. And I would sometimes like to have

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people look at the golf courses. If you're playing an

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eighteen whole round, it's eighteen games and it's maybe going.

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Speaker 1: Like going to Las Vegas. The house is going to

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win most of the holes, so you've got.

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Speaker 5: To just kind of manage your mistakes and just realize

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that that's part of the game and the hole is

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going to beat you sometimes, so it's you know, you.

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Speaker 1: Got to just roll with the punches and have amnesia.

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Speaker 5: Let the bad shots go and focus on the next

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shot that you're looking at.

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Speaker 2: How how do you have yeah, how do you get

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that amnesia where you know, how do you focus on

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the good and eliminate the negative and not overthink this?

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Speaker 3: I mean, how do you teach that well.

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Speaker 5: I think I think you've actually got to practice it.

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It's again, it goes back to what I mentioned there before,

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is that we're always trying to figure out what.

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Speaker 1: We did wrong.

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Speaker 5: And I just share a little story with you. One time,

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I a couple of years ago, I had a young

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high school kid come out and he was he was

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pretty pretty big kid. He came out very very quiet,

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wouldn't talk very much, and so I had him warm up,

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getting some nine irons, and so he hit the first

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nine iron abou one hundred and seventy yards absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Perfect and seventy yards?

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Speaker 3: Is that what you said?

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Speaker 1: Really? Yes, that's exactly what I said.

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Speaker 5: I watched the ball and I went I said, okay, Nathan,

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I said, is that a pretty normal nine iron?

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Speaker 1: And he looked at me and goes mm hm.

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Speaker 5: And so he had another one about exactly the same thing,

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land in the same spot. And so he hit five

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shots in a row that.

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Speaker 1: Were within five to ten yards of each other.

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Speaker 5: And I'm looking and I said, that is you know,

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I says, that's your normal nine iron and he's and

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again man of few words, he said mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: So then he hit one.

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Speaker 5: I hit about three inches behind it. Okay, hit this

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big chunker. So I said, so, Nathan, what happened there?

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And he looked at me like I was like an idiot.

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He looked at me, he said, well, I hit behind it.

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And I said, okay, go on, you know. So it

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wasn't why did I do that? Why did I hit

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behind it?

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Speaker 1: He just accepted that he hit behind it and that

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was what it was. So he went on to the

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next shot and.

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Speaker 2: Probably hit the next one one hundred and seventy yards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he just hit it out there again.

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Speaker 5: Right, So it's what we have to practice, is and

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I don't I don't think you can just go out

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there and say, okay, I'm you know, for every bad

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shot I hit today, I'm just going to forget it

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and go on to the next one, because that's not

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our human nature. It's something that you have to work at.

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It's something that you have to practice, and you can

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start practicing it on the driving range and it's really

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really hard to do, you know, to get out of

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our get that out of our mind, that got to

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hit that bad shot, and you've got to stay in

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the present. Okay, all right, that SHOT's gone, and you

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actually have.

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Speaker 1: To talk yourself through that.

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Speaker 5: You have to say, all right, miss that shot, all right,

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I'm moving on to the next one, and you start

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focusing on the next shot. And that's going to help

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you train yourself to get out of what you just did,

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because you know, there's so much time between shots on.

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Speaker 1: The golf course.

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Speaker 5: You're either waiting for the people that you're playing with

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or waiting for the group in front of it, and

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the whole time is you're thinking about that last shot

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you just hit. So I think you have to actually

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mentally and physically just say okay, I'm going to the

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next shot.

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Speaker 1: I'm moving forward here. And it takes time. You might

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be able to do it for three or four holes.

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Speaker 5: In around and then gradually the many the next time

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out you're able to kind of stay in that present

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for six holes. So it's just something that you have

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to work at. It's just like practicing the physical shots,

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you got to practice the mental park.

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Speaker 2: We've talked so much on this show about outcome versus process.

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We never forget we had one called Nato, which was

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not attached to outcome. And I find that a lot

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of people get upset. People that I play with, they

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get upset with the result of where the ball landed

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versus their swing, their contact with the ball, and I,

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you know, I my friends kind of look at me like,

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what are you talking about? When I'll have a shot

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that I'm not happy with that, I'm more unhappy with

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the swing and with the contact than I am with

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the result the result. You know, once you know I

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can't do much about that. I can have a phenomenal

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drive and it ends up in a bunker. Why should

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I get upset about that? Right?

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Speaker 1: Exactly?

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Speaker 5: Take on the challenge of trying to get it out

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of the ball.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh boy, this is exciting something different.

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Speaker 5: That's why they you know, they put bunkers out there

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for a reason for people to hit into them. So

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you might as well just say, take on the challenge

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of being able to hit the bunker shot.

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Speaker 2: And what cracks me up is that you'll play with

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someone who's played that course over and over and they go, God,

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I hit into the bunker every single time, and you

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just want to go, well, let's there's two things you

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can do here. One you can go from a different

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tea box maybe you're playing the wrong tea box, or

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two just try a different club this time. If you're

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going to do that every time, why are you taking

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the driver out every single time to do this?

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Speaker 3: Are there other options that I missed?

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Speaker 1: They hit right? You know it's I got two things

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I was thinking of.

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Speaker 5: One one story college coach was talking to me the

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one time about one of his tail players was standing

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on a part three, one hundred and six bole water

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on the right, Arizona on the left, so there's tons

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of room on the left.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: First ball goes in the water, right, second ball goes

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in the water right, So three free balls in a

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row into the water to the right of the green.

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Speaker 1: You're under a coach and said what do I do?

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And the coach said, aim left.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you keep making the same mistake, that's

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you know, you just you got to look at it

395
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and say God that that you know, you don't have

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to hit driver off every team. You don't have to

397
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hit three wood on every part five for your second shot.

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Speaker 1: Just because it's a long waist from the green.

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Speaker 5: But what you're trying to do is keep the golf

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ball in play and hit the club that you have

401
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the most confidence in.

402
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Speaker 1: And you know, and I think another thing.

403
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Speaker 5: Another mistake people make a lot is they don't play

404
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the way they hit the ball. So you know, if

405
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they'll stand on the range and they'll practice, and their

406
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,160
driver ninety eight percent of the time has a left

407
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to right shape to it, sometimes more than others. Okay,

408
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,200
So they stand up and they aim down the middle

409
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of the fairway and the ball slices into the trees

410
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on the right.

411
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Speaker 3: Okay, so I know it, well, yeah.

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Speaker 5: If you do it ninety percent of the time, So

413
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why don't you just aim down the left side and

414
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play the fade rather than trying to hit it straight,

415
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which you can't do right. So I think it's it's

416
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people have to understand their game.

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Speaker 1: Know their game.

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Speaker 5: Okay, if you're a twenty two handicap and you hit

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your ball off the tee one hundred and eighty five yards,

420
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,039
but in your mind, you should be hitting at two

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hundred and thirty. So then you start trying to hit

422
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it two hundred and thirty yards and it goes further

423
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into the trees, further left, missing shots, Okay, rather than

424
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just playing your normal game, play what your your swing

425
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is it it's your perfect golf swing is what you create,

426
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not the one that's in Golf Digest or on Golf Channel.

427
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And you know, this is what the guys on the tour,

428
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,720
this is the way they hit their drive. You know,

429
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,039
use your perfect golf swing and play your own game.

430
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Speaker 2: Is that something that you teach is that everyone has

431
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their own perfect golf swing or you try to recreate

432
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what you know Rory does.

433
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Speaker 5: No, I absolutely I do not teach everybody a method.

434
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In other words, this is you come to see me.

435
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,960
You're going to learn to swing the golf club this way.

436
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What I'm going to do is I'm going to see

437
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what you can do physically. You know where you are

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in the game, what you want to try to do.

439
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,799
You know what are your goals and can you physically

440
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,119
do some of the things that you read about or

441
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,559
you know you have certain restrictions to your body, the flexibility,

442
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whatever it is. And you know I've played for forty years.

443
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,359
I need to get better. I need to start hooking

444
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my driver rather than fading it. And I'm going to

445
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try to work with that person with what they've got bring.

446
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Bring to me your game, and we'll make your game

447
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,559
better by by looking at where where are you mismanaging

448
00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:44,640
your game? You know, you stand out there and I

449
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,359
can't hit the drivers. Okay, I'm hitting I hit my driver,

450
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you know bad all the time.

451
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Speaker 1: Well, if you really analyze their game, their driver may.

452
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Speaker 5: Not be that bad, but they just had forty seven

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putts in eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Holes, you know.

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Speaker 5: So it's not your driver, it's your putting. So you

456
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,039
have to look at your game and analyze your game.

457
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,799
Is that you know I'm horrible from fifty yards in.

458
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It takes me two shots to get it on the green,

459
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and then I can't get it close on the third shot.

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Speaker 1: So you better start working on your short game.

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Speaker 2: That That actually is what happened to me and was

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a huge made a huge difference in my game once

463
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I started focusing on my short.

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Speaker 3: Game in and around the green.

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Speaker 2: Is what is the most common problem that you come

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00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:30,200
up with? Is it people don't know the distance they

467
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,359
hit each club that they have. They think they're better

468
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,240
than they are. What do you find not what people

469
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:39,480
ask you like, I want more consistency, I want to

470
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hit the ball farther. What do you find is the

471
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,319
most common amateur mistake that's going on that they don't

472
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recognize their making?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you.

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Speaker 5: Know the first thing you said there was their distance.

475
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I think a lot of people really have a.

476
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Speaker 1: Misconception of how far they actually hit the.

477
00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:03,799
Speaker 5: Ball and how far you know, they they think the

478
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ball is going when it's really not.

479
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Speaker 1: And then they're you know.

480
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Speaker 5: They're always coming up short, or they're trying to hit

481
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,759
the ball harder than they need to rather than playing

482
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:16,720
within themselves. But I think it's a it's a misunderstanding

483
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,319
of their of their true yardages.

484
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,039
Speaker 2: How do you get their ego to accept that.

485
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 3: That's the problem.

486
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:34,519
Speaker 5: I think if I'm working with someone consistently, we're going

487
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:36,880
to take them out on the golf course and put.

488
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:38,079
Speaker 1: Them at a certain yardage.

489
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 5: It's it's sometimes really hard to see that actual yardage

490
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,920
on the driving range, and then well it's a range ball.

491
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,599
It doesn't go as far as my regular ball that

492
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,880
I play, And then it's so I think the answer

493
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,000
to that is actually getting them on the golf course,

494
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,279
putting them at one hundred and thirty yards and having

495
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,079
them hit their nine iron and dump a twenty yards

496
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,599
short in the bunker. Say, okay, so you're nine iron

497
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,759
really goes one hundred and ten.

498
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:03,279
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't.

499
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:08,279
Speaker 1: I really had no I hit it one thirty exactly exactly.

500
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,599
Hit the ball.

501
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,319
Speaker 3: I hit it one thirty once exactly.

502
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,599
Speaker 5: It's that, Okay, I can't hit it one thirty and

503
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:17,960
something happened.

504
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: But it's you know, that's not you know that. You know,

505
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,400
it's where you.

506
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:22,759
Speaker 5: Hit the ball, where you hit it on the club

507
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,000
face and all that. So you've just got I think

508
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,720
it's just in coaching and teaching, you you've gone to

509
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,279
get that.

510
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,079
Speaker 1: Have the student gained the confidence, you know.

511
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 5: In their coach that that I'm there to help and

512
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,559
and and you know, they've just got to accept the

513
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:46,880
fact that that numbers don't lie, you know, and you

514
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,599
just have to convince them that if you you might

515
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,279
have to take them out two or three times and

516
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,839
show them that, hey, here's now, you can knock this

517
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,480
seven iron from one hundred and thirty yards. You can

518
00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:57,319
knock it on the green, you know, eight out of

519
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,400
nine times.

520
00:23:58,319 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: And you're going to play better from there.

521
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 5: And you know, if they accept it, they accept it

522
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,279
and they go on to play better golf.

523
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: And if they don't, they just keep struggling.

524
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,279
Speaker 2: This is a great lead in for something that we

525
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,359
talked about in the very beginning. And I do want

526
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,720
to get to it, and that is how to manage

527
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,759
your game on the golf course. And you said, you know,

528
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
I'm sure this is just a start. When you put

529
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,960
the ball one hundred and thirty yards out and say,

530
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,799
give give me your best shot. What does it mean

531
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,680
to teach someone to manage the golf course?

532
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 5: I think you have to you, first of all, start

533
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,599
with their game and their shot shape.

534
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,599
Speaker 1: What kind of shots do you hit off the tee?

535
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:42,079
You know, how far do you hit it? And what

536
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,200
first you know?

537
00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:46,519
Speaker 5: So once they understand that, okay, I do play my ball.

538
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,079
Speaker 1: Left to right, that's what I play.

539
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 5: Okay, then you actually you have to take them on

540
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,279
the golf course.

541
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,319
Speaker 1: You can't.

542
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 5: I don't think you can teach that management standing on

543
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,599
the driving range. But then you what I would do

544
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,640
is get that person on the golf course, stand on

545
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,200
the tee and look down the fairway and have.

546
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,519
Speaker 1: Them tell me what's out there? What do they see?

547
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,000
What you know?

548
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,759
Speaker 5: What's where's the trouble? Where don't you want to go?

549
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,400
And let them tell themselves. They'll convince themselves. They say, well,

550
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,079
geeze the water, it's all water down the.

551
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,599
Speaker 1: Right hand side.

552
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,079
Speaker 5: I definitely don't want to go there. So you get

553
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,400
them to actually see a picture of the hole and

554
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:27,519
where's the best place to play that now? And then

555
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,359
start working on club selection.

556
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,519
Speaker 1: You know, where's your you know, this is.

557
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:33,759
Speaker 5: A little tight driving hole. What club do you have

558
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:37,200
the most confidence in? You know, I really like my

559
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,240
seven wood? Okay, so hit your seven with off this

560
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:41,559
te put it in play, with the next shot in play,

561
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:43,599
get it inside one hundred yards to the green, and

562
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,519
then get it on the green to walk away with bogie.

563
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:49,759
Speaker 1: You know. So you just I think you have to

564
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:50,319
show it to.

565
00:25:50,279 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 5: Them and prove them. Prove to them there's other ways

566
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,480
to play the golf rather than always hitting driver off

567
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,279
of par fours and par fives, and you.

568
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,839
Speaker 1: Know, just understand.

569
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,279
Speaker 5: How to back off a little bit, play more within themselves.

570
00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then the whole shot shape idea. There's

571
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,039
a natural shot shape that everybody has. But so often

572
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:18,079
I'll see middle handicappers and I'm talking, you know, fifteen

573
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,240
to what do you consider a middle handicap?

574
00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: Probably fifteen to twenty two.

575
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:30,319
Speaker 2: We're in there, all right, So somebody who's shooting high eighties, nineties, okay,

576
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,279
and they're out there and I've seen it so many

577
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:34,960
times it cracks me up. Say, all I need to

578
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,920
do is hit a slight draw here, and all I

579
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,559
need to do is hit it low.

580
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: And it's like.

581
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: I've admitted to myself, I don't know how to shape

582
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,000
my shots.

583
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 3: I don't know how. I don't have that many tools

584
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,559
in my bag.

585
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: If you will, that my ball has just a natural

586
00:26:53,519 --> 00:26:54,079
fade to it.

587
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,599
Speaker 3: And I've accepted.

588
00:26:55,079 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: That my irons go farther right, farther right than I

589
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,799
want them to, and I'm working on that. But there's

590
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:09,160
so many people that these middle handicappers that are talk

591
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,160
about shaping their shots and talk about knowing what they

592
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,680
did wrong.

593
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:13,559
Speaker 3: I lifted my.

594
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:19,839
Speaker 2: Head, but really, yeah again, but it's like you really

595
00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:22,680
should people be trying to shape their shots if they're

596
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,119
not a single digit handicap.

597
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,319
Speaker 1: I don't think so.

598
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 5: I mean I think if you're you know, and I'll

599
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:33,000
if I really feel.

600
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Confident with my students, you.

601
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 5: Know, and they're and they're talking about, you know, shaping

602
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,039
shots and doing this, I said, if you want to.

603
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,599
Speaker 1: Do that, you got to get a lower handicap, you know.

604
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think, you know, if if people who

605
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:53,279
are averaged to higher handicaps, just trust themselves to play.

606
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,440
What again, their perfect golf swing gives them When they're

607
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,680
swinging right, man, it's a little left to right boom

608
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,359
that goes right in the fairway every time.

609
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: I'm never out of the fairway.

610
00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 5: And you know, they're just going to play so much

611
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,160
better and have so much more fun.

612
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: But I think we're in this.

613
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 5: You know, you've got Golf Channel now and you watch

614
00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:14,799
you watch any of the tournaments on TV, and this

615
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:16,440
whole Okay, he's got to hit it out there right,

616
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,000
he's got to bring it in right to left here,

617
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:21,759
and they talk about this. So as a human, we're

618
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:24,519
out there and we're thinking, man, okay, I'm going.

619
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:25,599
Speaker 1: To hook this ball. Well, they don't have.

620
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,079
Speaker 5: First of all, they don't know how to hook it.

621
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,160
They don't know how to do that, okay, but they're

622
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,680
trying it on the golf course. So if they want

623
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,440
to start learning how to work the ball, they've got

624
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,720
to do it on the driving range. And most of

625
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:41,480
the time, no one ever practices shaping shots or trying

626
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:44,039
to make a ball go right to left, So they

627
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:46,000
have no idea how to do it, and they don't

628
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,799
know if they can. So then they're trying it on

629
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:49,599
the golf course and it ends up into a triple

630
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:51,640
bow gear or quadruple bogue or something like that because

631
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,759
they they got a shot there trying that they've never

632
00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:54,680
hit in their life.

633
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,279
Speaker 2: It brings out I'm going to go a little sidetrack here,

634
00:28:57,279 --> 00:28:59,440
because this came up in my round the other day

635
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,559
with a friend of mine and we were talking about, uh,

636
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:12,400
fade versus slice or a draw versus a hook, right,

637
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:16,599
I mean so like so a slice is an exaggerated fade.

638
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: Correct. Correct, It's a left to right.

639
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 5: It's a left to right shape and usually starts left

640
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,599
of the target ends.

641
00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:24,319
Speaker 1: Up right of the target.

642
00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: Is this is a slice?

643
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,319
Speaker 1: That's a slice, Okay? And a fade A fade, A

644
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:28,880
lot of fade.

645
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: A lot of times will be just it's a it's

646
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,279
a a softer curve maybe starting at the target and

647
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:37,559
then just drifting off to the right.

648
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:40,559
Speaker 2: Okay, and then going that's left to right, now going

649
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,319
right to left.

650
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,119
Speaker 5: We have go ahead, you got the you got a hook, okay, hook,

651
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,920
big big curve right to left. Usually you know, I

652
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,079
think most hooks kind of start at the.

653
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: Target in a.

654
00:29:56,279 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: Curve way left or just a slight draw, it's usually

655
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,920
a little higher shot drops softly down left.

656
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,279
Speaker 1: Of the target.

657
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: And a cut. What's a cut?

658
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: That's that's where this conversation led the other day. We

659
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,839
were like, that's a cut. Well, I don't know what's

660
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:11,279
a cut?

661
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,759
Speaker 5: Okay, A cut is is more it's it's kind of

662
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:19,000
an intentional slice where you never release the golf club,

663
00:30:19,039 --> 00:30:20,839
you hold on really if you're a right hand or

664
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,680
you hold on really firm with your left and you

665
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,599
actually try to hit the ball left with a with

666
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:32,240
a h swing path that comes across the ball and

667
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,000
puts dramatic left to right spin on the.

668
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: Ball, and going the opposite way would be called.

669
00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 5: What a pole hook right to left and kind of

670
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,119
a pole.

671
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: Draw where you're actually but that's an intentionally.

672
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 5: That's intentional where you're really trying to close the club

673
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:50,240
face over the ball, keep it low and get it

674
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:52,240
going around a tree left or something like that.

675
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: Is it dangerous for us?

676
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: I watched tournaments on TV and listen to these guys

677
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,720
because then we walk out going okay, I got.

678
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 5: It, yeah, because I think the I'll probably get in

679
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,480
trouble here to tell you, I think they talked too

680
00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:07,079
much instead of just letting us watch the tournament and uh,

681
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,759
you know, they're they're just you know. And the one

682
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:12,079
I love when the golf tournament tournaments is when he's

683
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:13,960
got no chance here to get this up and down.

684
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: He's in the deep rough.

685
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 5: He's got it here, he's got green sloping away from me,

686
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:18,960
water on the other side, and the guy.

687
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: Hits it up two feet Well okay, well, okay.

688
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:23,799
Speaker 3: Right in my wildest dream.

689
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, But you know, I think most slices, and I

690
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,200
see this so much for for I'm kind of talking

691
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:39,319
right handed player here, but most most slices come when

692
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:44,039
the player is trying to hit the ball straight. And

693
00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:47,240
I guarantee that everybody that's gone down to the range

694
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,480
to practice, they're trying to hit the ball straight.

695
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: And you should not try to hit the ball straight.

696
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,079
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think it's the hardest shot

697
00:31:55,119 --> 00:31:55,680
in golf to hit.

698
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: Really.

699
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 5: If if you if you take okay, just picture and iron,

700
00:32:01,079 --> 00:32:03,039
you know anything, seven iron, six iron.

701
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: Okay, the face is flat, the ball.

702
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 5: Is round, and if you look at the contact point

703
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,359
between the ball and the club face, you know there's

704
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:12,960
not a lot of.

705
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: Room for error there. So as soon as you start.

706
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 5: Trying to guide that ball straight, you get tension in

707
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:22,279
your hands. You're trying, you're trying to to keep the

708
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:25,440
golf club going straight at the target rather than letting

709
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,240
it release naturally. And if you happen to line it

710
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:31,599
up with good timing, the ball goes relatively straight, but

711
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,559
it's much easier to curve the ball one way or

712
00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:33,839
the other.

713
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, we're out of time, So here's

714
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,000
what I'd like to do. Can you hang around so

715
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:46,920
we can have a continue this conversation. We'll do part two. Sure, awesome, absolutely, okay,

716
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,160
but before you go, please tell me if people want

717
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,119
to get in touch with you.

718
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: Do you have a website?

719
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,799
Speaker 2: What's the best way If they're living in the South

720
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:58,640
Bay of the Bay Area and they want some lessons,

721
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,839
or if they want to they've enjoyed this conversation, they

722
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:03,000
want to travel to meet you and work with you,

723
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:05,440
how's the best way to get in touch with you.

724
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: My website is Tom Goood g o D one word

725
00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:16,640
at the Good Golf Connection dot com.

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00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,519
Speaker 3: That's your email.

727
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:19,039
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, A right, sorry, and that's my I'm sorry,

728
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,200
that's my email. See huh, San Jose golf lessons.

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00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,799
Speaker 3: Okay, wait it's Tom Tom What wait.

730
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm talking way too fast here.

731
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:29,799
Speaker 3: That's okay, I do that all the time. Okay, not

732
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:30,559
a problem.

733
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: So I just gave you my email, okay, that which

734
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,480
is Tom Good at what.

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00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 5: The at the Good Golf Connection.

736
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: Good Golf Connection okay dot com dot com.

737
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,559
Speaker 3: That's your email, all right?

738
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,039
Speaker 1: Right?

739
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 5: Phone number four zero eight four six zero eight zero

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00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:53,160
two five.

741
00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 3: Okay, good. And do you have a website?

742
00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I I do.

743
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 5: I'm going to give you it's it's San Jose, San

744
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:09,960
hyphen Jose hyphen golf dot all right, I'm sorry, hyphen

745
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,400
again lessons dot com.

746
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 3: Should I be interviewing your wife, sir Sam?

747
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:18,559
Speaker 5: All right?

748
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: I have.

749
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:23,639
Speaker 5: I have about three three websites, and I never get

750
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,480
the right one going because you wanted to if you

751
00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:26,920
wanted to.

752
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: Go to another.

753
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,519
Speaker 2: It was golf MDS dot com slash Tom Good golf

754
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,880
MDS okay, uh slash.

755
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:40,199
Speaker 1: Tom Tom golf MDS dot com.

756
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: Okay dot com lash slash Tom Good Okay, slash Tom Good.

757
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:44,719
All right.

758
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,639
Speaker 5: That's that's in my calendar and the whole thing and

759
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:47,639
some other information on there.

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00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:48,039
Speaker 3: That's great.

761
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 2: So I need to ask you more about that when

762
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,320
we got for our next show. All right, well, thank

763
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,480
you so much for your time, and I really appreciate

764
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:55,920
you agreeing to do part.

765
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,519
Speaker 3: Two of this, and I hope you're enjoying talk to this.

766
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: I'm gon enjoin me. Thanks for letting me babble. Mhm