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Welcome bonus 18 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:57.880 A's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the Chumba lane. 19 00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.439 For necessary DVOD wherever ive. 20 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:00.840 I lost in terms of it's eighty plus. 21 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.280 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 22 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.400 killers in True crime History and the authors that have 23 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:21.760 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every 24 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:25.519 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 25 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.120 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 26 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.599 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 27 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:46.120 Good Evening. By nineteen sixty six, Hot Springs, Arkansas wasn't 28 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:50.159 your typical sleepy, little southern town. Once a favorite destination 29 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:54.680 for mobsters like al Capone and Lucky Luciano, illegal activities 30 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.680 continue to lure out of state gamblers, flim flammen, and 31 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:02.719 high rollers to its race tracks, clubs, and bordellos. Still, 32 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:05.560 the town was shaken to its core after a girl 33 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.599 was found dead on a nearby ranch. The ranch owner 34 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.599 claimed it was an accident. Then the rancher was found 35 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.759 to be the killer of another woman, his fourth wife. 36 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:17.960 The story begins when thirteen year old Kathy Ward was 37 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:22.240 found dead after horseback riding at Black Snake Ranch on 38 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.879 the outskirts of Hot Springs, Arkansas. Frank Davis, the owner 39 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.479 of the ranch, tells authorities Kathy's death is an accident. 40 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:32.039 He claims her foot caught in a stirrup and she 41 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.759 was dragged to her death. Despite his pursuit of the 42 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:37.759 runaway horse, people who know the forty two year old 43 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:41.240 skilled horsemen don't believe his story, and soon rumors of 44 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.000 her rape and murder began swirling around town. The rumors 45 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.560 reach a crescendo after Davis viciously guns down his fourth 46 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.159 wife and mother in law in broad daylight outside of 47 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:54.599 a laundromat. Davis is arrested and charged with first degree 48 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:59.199 murder soon after Hot Springs authorities reopened the investigation into 49 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:03.360 Kathy Ward's Snake Eyes is the first book to examine 50 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:08.919 this notorious villain, featuring personal interviews, crime scene records, court documents, 51 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.319 and Davis's own prison files. Author and lifelong Hot Springs 52 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.879 resident Biddy Martin reveals the true story for the very 53 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.439 first time. The book that we're featuring this evening is 54 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.879 Snake Eyes Murder in a Southern Town with my special guest, 55 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.479 journalist and author Biddy Martin. Welcome to the program, and 56 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.479 thank you so much for this interview. Biddy Martin, Thank 57 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:32.680 you for inviting me, Dan, Thank you so much for 58 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:36.280 joining us with this incredible tale. First off, tell us 59 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.919 how you came. We know that you are a Hot 60 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.719 Springs resident, but tell us how you came to this story. 61 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.120 When and how you came to this story. 62 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.639 Kathy Ward, the thirteen year old girl that died Dyed 63 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.960 Black Snack Ranch, was our junior high school friend. And 64 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.560 it was very shocking to us. We've never experienced a 65 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:59.280 deadline that of a peer. The rumors of ripe and 66 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:03.159 martyr begins, and it was just it haunted us because 67 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.960 we never really knew what happened to her. They said 68 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:09.080 she was dragted death by a horse, but it was 69 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.199 at that time we never knew what really happened, and 70 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.719 it's haunted us, and we had gone through a lifetime 71 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:20.920 wondering about the truth. And then in twenty fourteen, I 72 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:23.920 called my friend Leslie, who was a childhood friend, and 73 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.639 told her that I wanted to start digging up this story. 74 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.160 I want to see if I could just find Kathy's obituary. Again, 75 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.000 we never knew what happened. If it hadn't been for 76 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:39.279 a spooky event that followed, I would have never started 77 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.600 researching and interviewing and writing this book. But what I 78 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:48.720 found out is that Kathy was a little princess in 79 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.279 a town not far from here, and her father was 80 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.600 a doctor. Her parents separated and her mother moved to 81 00:04:55.639 --> 00:05:00.399 Hot Springs in the early sixties. She was a family 82 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.800 of divorce and tried to fit in here in Hot 83 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.160 Springs with all the kids who had been here all 84 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:10.399 of our lives. By the time she had gone through school, 85 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:15.319 she had acclimated and was doing very well. But one 86 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.480 thing that she wanted by the time she reached junior 87 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.519 high school was to go horseback riding with some friends 88 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.639 out at Black Snake Ranch. Her mother was a typical 89 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:31.199 mother I guess of a single parent, and she had 90 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:35.560 things that she wanted to do, and sometimes they were 91 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:39.000 to go to the nightclubs here in Hot Springs. Kathy 92 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.680 was left at home at times and with her siblings, 93 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.959 but they got through it and she by the time 94 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:54.639 she became thirteen, she had started dating the cornerback at 95 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.639 the junior high school and everything was going her way, 96 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.720 except her mother wouldn't allow her to go horseback riding 97 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:07.160 with her girlfriends. But for some reason, three weeks after 98 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:12.680 Kathy finished the seventh grade, her mother relented and allowed 99 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:15.160 her to go out to the ranch. Well, of course 100 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:16.519 we all know what happened. 101 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.439 Then she died. 102 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.800 Supposedly she was dragged to death by a horse. That's 103 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:25.079 what the owner of Frank Davis the ranch told the 104 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:29.560 sheriff's deputies, and that's what was accepted. After the investigation, 105 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.600 they declared that, yes, indeed, it was an accident. So 106 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.759 Frank was let off hot Plate and was living his 107 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:42.480 life with his fourth wife. He had two children, a 108 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.360 little toddler and a boy. But for some reason, I 109 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.920 guess he was troubled. Forty six days after Kathy's death, 110 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:56.120 his wife leaves him. She takes the children and she 111 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.079 goes to her parents' home and lives with them. And 112 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.399 Frank is desperate to be with her and to have 113 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.120 the children with him, and he calls her every day, 114 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.079 day in and day out, wanting her to come back 115 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:11.319 home and to bring the children back home. 116 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.839 But she won't. 117 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.079 She tells him no, or just call me back later 118 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.560 and I'll get back with you. And so Frank Sennastu. 119 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.879 He begins stalking her in the fall of sixty six, 120 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:30.040 and she's downtown and shopping and going from store to store, 121 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.839 and for some reason she just happens to look and 122 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:38.480 there's Frank driving slowly down the street watching her. She's 123 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.680 so frightened that she goes to a lawyer and she 124 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:46.920 files for divorce. By January of nineteen sixty seven. For 125 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.920 some reason, Frank thinks that she's coming back to him. 126 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:54.720 There's no indication why, but he just believes that. So 127 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:57.319 he and his mother go back out to the ranch 128 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.639 and wait for her one Sunday afternoon, but she doesn't. 129 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:06.279 Sharon never arrives with the children, and he's and stuck 130 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.879 because his mother had gone with him and they were 131 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.720 waiting all day, supposedly all afternoon for Sharon to come 132 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.519 and bring the children. It was just going to be 133 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.639 a celebration. Four days after that, Frank is in a 134 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:23.279 stew He has a rage hand that he had employed 135 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:28.439 just to watch Sharon. He'd been watching her for quite 136 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:33.039 a while and following her daily pattern. She was a 137 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:38.320 beautician for Frank's mother, who had two beauty shops. He 138 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:42.360 called her up one afternoon, which happened to be Frank's 139 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:46.279 mother's birthday, and tells Frank, oh, she's here at the 140 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.039 beauty shop. And for some reason, Frank had been in 141 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.600 a stew All day, Frank goes over there. He watches 142 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:57.279 covertly his mother in law drive up to the beauty 143 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:03.639 shop to pick up Sharon drive off, and he claims 144 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.559 he didn't follow them, but later that evening Frank finds 145 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:13.440 them across town at a laundermat. He drives up to 146 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:17.000 the laundermat and gets in an argument with his mother 147 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.480 in law while Sharing's inside switching the clothes from and 148 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.639 washer to the driver. After she's finished that, she comes 149 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.879 walking back out and gets in the car and Frank 150 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:32.639 is part side by side to their car behind the laundromat, 151 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.679 and he and Sharon start talking and for some reason 152 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.360 he reaches behind him and there happens to be a shotgun. 153 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:44.480 He pulls it out and just bam shoots Sharing. The 154 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.919 mother in law starts screaming jumps out of the car. 155 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:51.600 She was holding a baby sitting right beside Sharon who 156 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.440 was in the driver's seat, and there was a toddler 157 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.000 in the back seat. She jumps out of the car, 158 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:01.519 runs out and runs into the lngdernet and just as 159 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.559 she hits the back door, Frank names of her, bam 160 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.600 shoots her. She falls down and the children are in 161 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.639 the in the car alone. But they the police find 162 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:16.799 him later at his mother's house because there were witnesses 163 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:19.480 this time. There weren't any witnesses when Kathy. 164 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:20.399 Died, or so we think. 165 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.080 They find the owner knew it was Frank, and this 166 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.279 is real odd. The owner of the launder mat lived 167 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:32.039 right up the street from Frank's mother in the other direction. 168 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.960 The uncle of Sharon's Sharon's uncle lived in the other 169 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.759 a block away, so there was like this Bermuda triangle 170 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:45.840 of homes and families involved in this one crime. 171 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:47.240 That's pretty eerie, I think. 172 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.720 But the police do find Frank at home and they 173 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:55.679 take him away, and he had passed out, probably from 174 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.360 drinking so much that day. 175 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.799 But they have. 176 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.000 Him examined and then taking to the jail, and he 177 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.279 goes through the process and they charge him with murder. 178 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:12.799 In the meantime, though Sharon lives an hour later after 179 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:15.879 she's been shot, they rush her to the hospital and 180 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.799 she does live an hour and she is able to 181 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:19.639 tell them. 182 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:21.080 Who shot her. 183 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:25.399 The mother in law is it's taking my ambulance to 184 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.000 Little Rock, to a large hospital there where she undergoes surgery. 185 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.360 She makes it, but Frank does go through a trial 186 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.080 a year later. But now I'm sorry, I am to 187 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:42.960 have to back up because after Frank murders his wife 188 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:47.559 in January of nineteen sixty seven, in April of nineteen 189 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:54.679 sixty seven, the police authorities reopened Kathy's case because originally 190 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.879 there have been so many rumors of rape and murder, 191 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.320 and people at all pointed their fingers at Frank because 192 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:06.000 they knew that he had a bad reputation. They knew 193 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.320 that he was a skilled horseman and he could have 194 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:11.679 caught a horse that he told them that she had 195 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.759 died from falling off of a runaway horse and dragged 196 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.240 to death. Well, they knew that he could have caught 197 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:22.759 that horse. But the authorities opened up Pathy's case, and 198 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:29.320 what they find during a grand jury trial is that Sharon, 199 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.080 who is now to cease, had written a note and 200 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.360 putting it in She put it in a lock box 201 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.840 at the bank where her uncle, who lived a block 202 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.279 away from Frank's mother, where her uncle was vice president 203 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.159 of the bank. She put it in a lock box, 204 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:50.080 and I guess her uncle told the authorities, well, hey, 205 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:53.120 there's a lock box of Sharon's. Let's see what's in it. 206 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:57.279 And she'd written in a note, and from that note, 207 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.240 and this is what doctor Ward, Kathy's father, told me, 208 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:04.159 because it's a grangery evidence and that can't be FOI. 209 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:08.039 There's no way that they could give me that information 210 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.039 without court order. But it had to be from the 211 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.440 note that Sharon wrote that the grand jury said, indeed, 212 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.720 it wasn't that Kathy didn't die accidentally, it was murdered. 213 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:23.720 And so Frank was charged with Kathy's murder, so she was. 214 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.759 He was charged a few months after murdering his wife 215 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:32.399 with Kathy's death, But the prosecuting attorney said that they 216 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:36.039 would first go through and would help Sharon trial, and 217 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.360 they would put Kathy's merch charge on the back burner 218 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.279 until they went through this trial. 219 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:48.519 So now you're talking about the first this. He is 220 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:52.519 now indicted for first degree murder. And now they reopened 221 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.120 the investigation into Kathy Ward's death, and then they found 222 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:01.480 some information that Sharon, before she died, was alert enough 223 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:03.679 to be able to put this information in a lock box. 224 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.480 And now the authorities have that information. As you said, 225 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.679 from a ranch hand, as you write from a ranch hand, 226 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.320 that said he knew exactly what had happened, and he 227 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.399 had witnessed it. Yes, So now the information that you 228 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:21.519 find from this grand jury investigation and from your own investigation, 229 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.679 what do you find really happened that day despite what 230 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:28.360 Frank Davis had to say. 231 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:34.360 Okay, Well, from one I learned is that he supposedly 232 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.080 took one of the little girls who was there with 233 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:42.519 Kathy riding horses. He took her to search for Kathy 234 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:47.840 as a cover up, and supposedly they found she actually 235 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:50.559 she found the little girl found Kathy's. 236 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:51.519 Body, right, and that was his. 237 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:56.840 But then he told the deputies that she had died 238 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.399 from a runway horse. So which story do you believe? 239 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.039 This story that I was told about the little girl 240 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.519 that went with him and found her body was told 241 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.840 to me several years into my research and investigation of 242 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.600 the story, and I tend to believe that it's true. 243 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:21.279 Absolutely. Now he's sent to the state hospital and they're 244 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:26.360 going to be psychiatric evaluation. But right as you write, 245 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.120 very very interestingly, right from the very beginning when he 246 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.039 was passed out of his mother's house, when he awoke, 247 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.240 he was incredulous that he had done anything, that he 248 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.399 had committed a murder. Of course, total amnesia. After he 249 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.639 had spotted Sharon. After those events that are transpired after 250 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.519 including the shooting. Of course, he had no memory, supposedly 251 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.279 of any of that tell us a little bit about 252 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.120 the kind of behavior he exhibited in prison and the 253 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.879 defense that the defense was trying to put forward at 254 00:15:58.879 --> 00:15:59.440 this trial. 255 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.720 Okay, while he was in prison, they sent him to 256 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.200 the State Hospital and he spent a lot of time 257 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.000 there with the doctor telling these bizarre stories about how 258 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:14.519 people were always following him and they were always out 259 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.159 to get him. He also told them that he would 260 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:23.480 make a great astronaut, and he never once recognized he 261 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.639 bought the whole time that he was at the State 262 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:30.200 hospital that he was there because of his stomach issues. 263 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:35.080 And this goes back to his serving in World War Two. 264 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.840 He was a flight officer and was discharged in nineteen 265 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.279 forty five because of stomach problems. And throughout the years 266 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:48.759 he would go to different doctors for his stomach problems, 267 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.120 and one told him that it's all in your head, 268 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.840 and another one said, oh, no, you do have stomach problems. 269 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:59.440 But he actually thought that while he was there being 270 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.480 samined by this psychiatric doctor at the State Hospital after 271 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.000 murdering his wife, that he was there because of his 272 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:12.160 stonach problems. He never wants He did tell them that 273 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.920 when he was being held in a holding cell in 274 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.799 Hot Springs after having murdered after the incident, that three 275 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.279 days later they allowed him to read a newspaper and 276 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.039 that's when he read about the story about his wife's death. 277 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.200 That he never once admitted it, never in. 278 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.599 Keeping with his background when he was young, you write 279 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:39.480 about that his mother never criticized him and thought, in 280 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.559 reaction to his bad behavior when he was very young, 281 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.519 that she would just spoil him more, that she would 282 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.240 give more attention to him. 283 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.359 Yes, she pampered him. She babed him. 284 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:53.599 He was a single, he was the only child, and 285 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.000 she gave him everything. He had twenty five to fifty 286 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.640 horses that she would stable all over Hot Spring And 287 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.200 I'm not going to go into all of her. He 288 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.799 used his mother like an ATM machine, That's what I 289 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:06.519 will tell you. 290 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.960 And she had financed this black snake ranch endeavor as well. 291 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:14.599 Yes, she had. 292 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:19.640 He had another ranch in a different part of the county, 293 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.880 and then she bought him this black snake ranch. And 294 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.839 they thought that he was finally getting it all together 295 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.440 because he had married Sharon, and they'd had two children, 296 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.680 and they thought that everything was right in his world. 297 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:40.440 But then pathy died out at the ranch. Then his 298 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.480 wife left him, then he murdered his wife. And so 299 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:49.240 now he's at the state hospital. And he told the 300 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.799 doctor there that he was the best teacher of boys 301 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.039 that just give him some and he'd have them going 302 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.960 the right way, and that they were easier to try 303 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.240 a horse, and he just he was a little bit bizarre. 304 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.519 Now, this case is a death penalty case, and in 305 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.960 the state it's the electric chair is the choice of death. 306 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:16.079 And so the mother bank roll's good representation. Ironically, on 307 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:21.559 the night that Sharon planned her escape from Frank, he 308 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:28.079 had been involved and supporting a circuit judge for election, 309 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.400 Bob Ridgway. Now in this trial, his mother bank rolls 310 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.279 the defense, and he is with an attorney named Holt, 311 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:42.599 and also this Bob Ridgway that he had coincidentally supported. 312 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.400 So their defense that they're trying to mount is an 313 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.279 insanity defense. And so when you talk about his background, 314 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.319 now his mother and others are employed to be able 315 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.759 to give this background to support this insane, needy defense, 316 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:01.519 don't they. 317 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.680 Right, there's several witnesses that talked about his bizarre behavior. 318 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:12.039 One of them is his mother tells them about Frank 319 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:16.400 in one week bought five cars. Now what mother buys 320 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:20.519 her son five cars in one week? But what was 321 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.680 so telling about that is one of the witnesses said 322 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.920 that Frank somehow backed up one of those cars to 323 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.960 a tree and he let. 324 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:31.839 The engine going. 325 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.880 And this was at his mother's house, and it was 326 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.359 in the front yard, and the neighbor was nearby, and 327 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.759 the engine he turned it on on I think it 328 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.279 was like a Saturday night. And the next day it 329 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.519 was still there, hiked up on that tree, the back 330 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.599 bumper and the engine was still going. And the man 331 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.920 was just curious and he went over there and knocked 332 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:55.960 on the front door to find out what happened. If 333 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.039 Frank said, oh, I just want to see how long 334 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.880 it would take for the amNY miles whatever for the 335 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.240 gas to run out, something pricing like that. But Frank 336 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.079 would do crazy things like that. He was now living 337 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:08.319 at his mother's. 338 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.200 House in town. His range was outside of town. 339 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.720 And that same man said that Frank would throw beer 340 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.559 cans and liquor bottles out in the yard. 341 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:20.559 Now, who does that? 342 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:25.680 But he was just very bizarre, and the neighbors recognized that, 343 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.519 and so did his mother. He also did some crizy 344 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:34.720 things like chasing cars down a road and hollering at 345 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:37.599 him and falling down on the ground and hitting his 346 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.480 head and just doing crazy things like that. But he 347 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:42.519 wasn't normal. 348 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.160 You talk about that. There was a diagnosis of manic 349 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:52.559 depressive reaction. But basically he had this mood disorder, a 350 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.160 psychiatric disorder. But then there was this element of this 351 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:04.039 explosive rage. Suddenly always depressed, manically depressed, manic, and then 352 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.720 in these events of rage, and then they cited so 353 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.519 many witnesses said things like he threw himself on the 354 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.599 ground and banged his head on the ground. So and 355 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.319 many people described it, including his mother and other people, 356 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:21.720 as tantrums, like a very much like a young child 357 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:24.960 would have, right. 358 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:28.839 And one of the psychiatrists compared it to his son's 359 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.920 childish tantrums. And then they also brought out the faking 360 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:39.200 bad that Frank was faking bad, and the different doctors. 361 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.079 They finally had a team that came down and made 362 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:48.559 a conclusion that he needed actually to stay in the 363 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.240 state hospital and spend more time in the state hospital, 364 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.079 and this was when he was being examined. 365 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:59.079 Right now, the trial progresses, and of course you mentioned 366 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:03.880 that the dueling psychiatrists. Of course his psychiatrists claiming that 367 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:06.720 he didn't know right from wrong, and of course these 368 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.160 other psychiatrists saying very well that he was certainly sane 369 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.240 at that time and was not suffering from any mental 370 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:17.599 illness that would mitigate this death penalty sentence. Before we 371 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.839 get to what happens at this trial, let's stofer these 372 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.559 messages from our sponsor, which is Best Fiends. It was 373 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.440 a typical night. Lisa and I had dinner, talked a 374 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:31.519 little bit about her work. Then suddenly I disappeared, But 375 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.599 no worries. I was just spending some quality time playing 376 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:39.480 Best Fiends. 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