WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:16.879 Hello, and welcome to the show. Martin Wilts your host, 2 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:20.960 and we have Joshua Bertrand on this evening. I had 3 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:25.399 someone suggested him who I trusted to come on this 4 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:27.800 show as a guest. We're going to be talking a 5 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.119 bit about lighter than aircraft, the possibilities. I'm going to 6 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:35.200 try to have an open mind of what the tic 7 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.960 tac ufo was in Night two thousand and four off 8 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.679 of the San Diego Coast. A couple of things here. 9 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.000 We have our blog this week, which I forgot to 10 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:48.320 mention the other day Tuesday, and it's un the UFOs. 11 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:53.439 It's so funny because I have a camera in front 12 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.759 of the screen. I can't read this. ICEU fon and 13 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:03.119 SBI by Charles Lear blogs every single week a lot 14 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:05.480 on the history of it. This has to do with 15 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:11.159 stamps that were made for the Green for Canada. 16 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:11.799 I believe it is. 17 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:14.280 Oh no, I'm sorry. This is a whole different thing. 18 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:18.079 This has to do with Lee Spiegel and sorry for 19 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:20.239 the rant here. This has to do with Lee Spiegel 20 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:24.680 when he had the United Nations back in nineteen seventy 21 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:29.079 seven discussing UFOs. It's a great blog, and sorry for 22 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.719 getting confused on that, So check that out over at 23 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:37.680 podcastufo dot com. While you're over there, there is our 24 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:42.959 merchandise store. You can check that out. There's also, like 25 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:48.599 I say, there's hundreds of blogs, and there's also there's 26 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.719 a place where you can leave a phone message. 27 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:53.359 With UFO siting. 28 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.920 We also have a form you can fill out that 29 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.079 was very active for a while where we had people 30 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.239 filling out there UFO encounters. I'd love to see that 31 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.519 get reactivated again because there's some great ones, even one 32 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:11.719 from a commercial pilot that was excellent. So a couple 33 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:16.800 of things. This next week, I'm going to be in Sedona, 34 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:19.680 going to be out that way, and I'm not going 35 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:23.120 to be able to do a Thursday night show next week. However, 36 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.360 on Tuesday Night, I will have Thiago to Chetty. He'll 37 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.479 be on and he's going to be talking about cases 38 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:36.000 in Brazil for you know, the UFO encounters and injuries. 39 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.360 So that's there's some really fascinating cases of things that 40 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:42.759 happen in Brazil. And again he'll be on next Tuesday. 41 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:48.599 Welcome everyone in chat and good to see everyone there. 42 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:51.879 We have a duckhead. We have Bob Blazaar. Is it 43 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.479 the real Bob Blazar. It's got to be. I mean, 44 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:58.800 it can't be anyone else's that's not a very common name. Hello, 45 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:04.439 Wyatt Duckhead. So hello to you all, and thanks for 46 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:08.039 being here tonight. And I'm going to bring in my guests. Joshua, welcome, 47 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:08.919 thank you. 48 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.639 Nice to be here with you, Martin and nice. 49 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:15.599 Nice to have you on. And so I guess I'm 50 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.759 going to ask you what is your background first of all, 51 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.680 and what got you interested in looking at this topic. 52 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.520 I'm going to say the UFO topic, because that's basically 53 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.080 a lot of what we're going to be talking about tonight. 54 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.560 Sure, my background, I'm a Bachelor of Mathematics from the 55 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:35.080 University of Waterloo in two thousand and four. I spent 56 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:41.439 twenty years working in industry as a database specialist for writers, 57 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:46.000 the news agency, Electronic Arts, the video games company, SAP, 58 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:52.199 the large Databases company, and I retired about a decade ago. 59 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.960 In my retirement, I've been a fan of aerospace and 60 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:02.400 air agel's and I started looking into the crossover of 61 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:08.639 these technologies with the UAP phenomenon also a long term 62 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:12.759 interest of mine. As you can see, my rooms sort 63 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:15.560 of filled with a bunch of Star Wars lego. My 64 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:21.079 interests in the topic Okay, fairly obvious, but I like 65 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:25.480 to approach it looking at the technical aspects of our 66 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.040 real craft programs. Some of them may have been dark 67 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.879 for decades, but from what I've proven over the last decade, 68 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.000 some of these programs get funded and have research and 69 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:45.600 progress of prototypes happening at contractors and are outside the 70 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:51.720 knowledge of general service members of the military, potentially leading 71 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.879 to conflicts of misunderstandings I see. 72 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.319 I had the pleasure of having Dave marl Rama show 73 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.040 a couple of days ago Tuesday, and I mentioned him 74 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:03.920 that I'm reading a book, Mysteries in the Sky in 75 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.000 nineteen sixty eight, and it starts right out with the 76 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:12.759 airship phenomenon eighteen ninety seven, eighteen ninety six, eighteen ninety seven. 77 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:13.839 Fascinating. 78 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.279 It's really fascinating to read the details. I never really 79 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.519 looked into it deeply, and. 80 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:20.920 So I'm really enjoying that book. 81 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:25.279 And does any part I mean, eighteen ninety six, eighteen 82 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.720 ninety seven, what do we have going on then? Were? 83 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.639 I mean, there were people talking about these lights, and 84 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.800 there were some things that, you know, really really bright lights. 85 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.079 Sometimes people mentioned that they heard like a noise of 86 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:41.199 some kind. But I'm trying to think of what would 87 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.000 be powering something at that time. I mean, what do 88 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.319 we have? 89 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.839 Sure? So eighteen ninety seven you have the Aurora Texas 90 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:58.079 UAP crash, which was attributed as potential airship design, and 91 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.639 in eighteen ninety seven and you actually have airships in 92 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:07.439 development in Europe and in North America. Airship history goes 93 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:10.519 back as far as the sixteen hundreds. There was an 94 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:19.839 airship named the Pasarola by Bartelmeo de Guzmau. In five 95 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:23.639 hundred years. We seem to have been doing a lot 96 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.920 of evolution of this technology. The Montgaulfier brothers in France 97 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:33.399 in the eighteen hundreds are also doing ballooning. A man 98 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:39.839 named Daniluski in Ukraine is doing a human powered air 99 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:43.759 bike where a giant bag of lifting gas and a 100 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.959 bike turning a motor behind it are flying around in 101 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.439 the skies of Ukraine in eighteen ninety seven. So we 102 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:56.439 certainly have the technology to mimic the craft that are seen. 103 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:01.360 The question is, because that technology is so knew, was 104 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:05.160 it indeed shocking an alien to the people that were 105 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:10.199 encountering these not knowing that they had human developed craft 106 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.720 that were similar at the same time. 107 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.800 I brought this up recently on a show that I had, 108 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.519 and this is the Simeon Perkins memo that talks basically 109 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:25.519 about airships in seventeen ninety six. I mean, so that 110 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.480 would that's a real crazy case. I don't know if 111 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.199 you've ever heard about it, but I mean there are 112 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.399 just a sample of a lot of things of people 113 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:38.040 talking about, you know, and I understand, Yes, I know 114 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.040 they had like a hot air type balloon situation pretty 115 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:44.920 early on. I think it was even in I think 116 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.199 China might have been the first country that actually held 117 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:49.480 a hot to air balloon. Am I wrong? 118 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.360 Like in the thirteenth century. 119 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:55.360 Well, there's actually a theory going around right now that, 120 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.319 if you know, the Nasca lines in Peu are some 121 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:06.240 of those nascaline sites, they have found bags of animal 122 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:10.519 skins and what they suspect is that a spotter was 123 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:17.120 sent up in a hot air animal skinned balloon, and 124 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:22.040 that the way the precise nascaline geometries were etched out 125 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:26.240 was that they had a spotter up above them hundreds 126 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:30.439 of years before that. They've found some evidence of this. 127 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:34.039 I haven't looked into it too deeply because it's not 128 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:40.919 specifically my interest, but I have heard the the beginnings 129 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:42.679 of that research branch. 130 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:48.200 Wow, pretty amazing, pretty amazing. So I guess I don't 131 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.399 want to jump right to the tic TAC because I 132 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.039 do I would do want to get there eventually, And 133 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:54.720 I'm not really sure if I'm going to agree with 134 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.480 you about that, but I want to be open minded 135 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.039 and hear about that. But until then, let's go in 136 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:07.759 to what you have seen in the evolution of these 137 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:11.799 you know, these basically lighter than aircraft. I think that's 138 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.360 what you people call them, correct, Yep, Yeah, that's. 139 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.600 A good description of them. So if we have the 140 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:23.080 eighteen ninety seven cases that we were just talking about, 141 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:28.799 coming out of that, the US Army maintains an interest. 142 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:33.039 So before eighteen ninety seven, the US Army had been 143 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:38.559 using lighter than aircraft in the form of balloons, similar 144 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:44.240 to this hypothetical NASCA spotter. The US in the Civil 145 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:50.440 War would send spotters up in balloons to conduct reconnaissance 146 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:57.600 on their enemies. By nineteen oh five, that has evolved 147 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:02.120 to a powered blimp called the Gelatine, which the US 148 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.519 Army produces and it does the first powered flight across 149 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:13.279 the Columbia River Gorge. So it leaves from Portland, Oregon, 150 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:19.840 travels across the Columbia River Gorge and successfully lands in Vancouver, Washington. 151 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:25.559 So from there, two years later you have this massive 152 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.679 six hundred foot long prototype by a man named Morrel 153 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.840 and in San Francisco they fill up this six hundred 154 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:40.240 foot long blimp with coal gas from the city's natural 155 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:44.919 gas lines and it has I think three engines on 156 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:48.879 it with three motors, and they try to do this 157 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:52.639 test and the whole thing gets loose and eventually crashes down. 158 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:57.120 But you can see that even at the start of 159 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:02.320 the previous century, we're experimenting with things that are leading 160 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:07.600 into the large airships, the Goodyear blimps that we see today, 161 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:12.600 and the reconnaissance craft that the US government has that 162 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.240 are a bit more secret than the Goodyear blimp. 163 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:21.279 And you know, during the Civil War you mentioned that, 164 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:23.919 and I remember reading about that and how they had 165 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.679 to fill how they had to fill that, and it 166 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:30.440 was so dangerous. A lot of them, you know, people 167 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:34.080 blew up and burned and and I can't remember what 168 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.159 it is that they were able to they had some 169 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.919 type of machine they were able to pump it full 170 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:40.840 of do you know what I'm thinking it. 171 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:42.120 Was hydrogen gas at the time. 172 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:44.480 Hydrogen And how could they do that back then? 173 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.120 I mean, I don't understand what type of. 174 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.879 Living through chemistry? Yeah, yeah, amazing, produce the gas on 175 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.039 site from chemicals, fill it into a balloon. 176 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.080 Yeah, and that was a tethered balloon. 177 00:11:58.120 --> 00:11:59.679 It used to go up and they used to just 178 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.759 you know, which was really brilliant, you know, especially if 179 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.600 they could do it at night, not make any noise 180 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:06.159 and you know all that. 181 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.159 Yeah, they would send the guy up, pull him down 182 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.879 to get a report, or they could actually yell between 183 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:14.759 the person on the ground and the person up in 184 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:15.200 the pollon. 185 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.200 Yeah. For years I had a couple of menus from 186 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.240 the Hindenberg and that was pretty cool to have that, 187 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.120 but just as a collector. But that's you know, one 188 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:29.080 that everyone remembers when it. 189 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.159 The Hindenburg definitely leaves an impression in people's minds and 190 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.559 shows why we for a century tended to use helium 191 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.399 instead of hydrogen as our main lifting guys. 192 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.840 Yeah, and is there it's just a limited resource. 193 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.480 Yeah, So one of the issues that is being thought 194 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:53.080 of these days is we've used helium for about a 195 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.039 century in our lighter than aircraft, and we've used it 196 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:04.559 to staggering extents. Recently, the US military had sixty nine 197 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:12.919 lighter than air aristots created to provide reconnaissance craft for 198 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.200 the Afghanistan War. And in each of those craft, you're 199 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.919 filling it with a couple hundred thousand liters of helium, 200 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:27.000 and when you when you need to bring the craft 201 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.840 back down, you either winch it down or you vent 202 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.679 that helium to the atmosphere. And if you're ever moving 203 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:36.120 the craft from a single site to another site, you 204 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:40.120 have to vent that helium. And it's rather difficult to 205 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:44.639 recover when it ends up in the atmosphere because it's 206 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:50.639 lighter than the typical concentrations of gas in our atmosphere. 207 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.879 Helium rises to the top and hangs out in your space, 208 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:57.960 so it's really hard to recover that way. The way 209 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:02.240 that we get new helium these days is by fractionally 210 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:07.240 distilling it from natural gas. So when the government is 211 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.240 deciding that it's okay to pump natural gas, you can 212 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:17.080 siphon some amount of helium off from that pumping station. 213 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.159 The issue with that is eventually that's going to run out. 214 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.799 If we keep putting hundreds of thousands or even sometimes 215 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.480 millions of leaders of helium in these aerostats and blimps 216 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:34.000 and venting it out into the atmosphere, eventually our use 217 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.720 is going to outstrip our production. And because of that, 218 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:42.080 people have been thinking about. 219 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:42.240 How to. 220 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:50.600 Replace these lighter than air reconnaissance craft once helium is 221 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:53.440 a more scarce resource. Now we could go back to 222 00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:00.320 the dangerous hydrogen of the Hindenburg and the Civil War 223 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:06.080 era balloons, but again that's quite dangerous, as the Hindenburg 224 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:12.240 spectacularly showed. So one of the things that the National 225 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:17.000 Labs have been doing at Los Alamo's National Lab is 226 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.840 working on what's known as a vacuum balloon, and a 227 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.519 vacuum balloon has been theorized all the way back to Aristotle. 228 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:33.080 His concept of horror vacuue is well sort of basically 229 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:40.960 described as what's lighter than hydrogen nothing, And so if 230 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.480 you have the absence of a gas, it's actually lighter 231 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:47.799 than if you have just basic atmosphere that you and 232 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:52.000 I are breathing in. So if you're able to contain 233 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:58.720 a vacuum within a solid shell, that craft itself would 234 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.960 be lighter than the air around it and would have 235 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.600 lift on its own. So the way that they've attempted 236 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.559 to do this is by crafting the shell of these 237 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:13.840 vacuum craft out of a material known as aerogel. And 238 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.039 the unique properties of aerogel allow it to both resist 239 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:23.120 the crushing pressure of the outer atmosphere attempting to get 240 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.279 into that vacuum on the inside of the craft, and 241 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:33.840 it also prevents the atmosphere from traveling through the shell 242 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:39.440 and penetrating and diffusing into the vacuum on the inside. 243 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:42.720 So as material, yeah, can you explain what that is? 244 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.039 And is it. 245 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.360 Something that is a compound and alloy? What is it? Exactly? 246 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:49.559 Sure? 247 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:49.720 So? 248 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:54.519 Air agels are a material that goes back to nineteen 249 00:16:54.639 --> 00:17:01.320 thirty one. A man named Samuel Stephens Kissler first synthesized 250 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:06.480 this material and wrote a paper in Nature magazine. In 251 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:10.920 it he describes I think eleven different types of aerogel 252 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:16.759 that he's synthesized, and how he does that is by 253 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:23.119 taking gel like jello or gelatine, and if you remove 254 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.119 all of the water from that gel, you're left with 255 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.079 just the solids that would make it up for gello 256 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:36.880 that's mostly like gelatine itself, like the airship from nineteen 257 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.920 oh five was named. But if you make this gelatine 258 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:46.680 out of different materials, like out of a silica or 259 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.519 out of an alumina, what you're left with is the 260 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:58.200 skeletal structure of that silica or alumina. And as you've 261 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:03.079 removed this water, it's created a fine network of pores 262 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:10.079 in the material. So the skeleton and the pores mean 263 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:16.720 that the material is extremely lightweight after the removal of 264 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.599 the liquids. So essentially you have a gelatin that has 265 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:25.400 all of its liquid removed. That's what an aerogel is. 266 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.839 And is it the strength of it? What would you 267 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:29.400 compare it to. 268 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.640 So each of the different materials that you can make 269 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.160 an aerogel out of lens the final result in aerogel 270 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:43.519 different properties, as well as the manufacturer manufacturing process of 271 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:48.680 the aerogel itself. So if you have the typical blue 272 00:18:48.720 --> 00:19:00.720 silica aerogel, it's usually rather brittle as as it's pretty 273 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:09.079 much just silica. There are some stronger variants of silica 274 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:14.920 meta materials. L I nine hundred was manufactured by lockeed. 275 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.799 They used it as a re entry tile on the 276 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:24.759 Space Shuttle. But some aerogels aren't made of silica. Some 277 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.359 are made of polyimides and aluminas, and these can be 278 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:35.039 much more structurally rigid than the traditional blue silica aer agels. 279 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:41.319 So they well have innovated a new process called air LOI, 280 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:47.400 which is you take this skeleton of aerogel that's resulted 281 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:52.079 by removing the liquids, and then you coat this skeleton 282 00:19:52.839 --> 00:20:00.119 with a polymer and that adds a structural rigid d 283 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.720 to the material by binding it all together while still 284 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.160 maintaining the porous structure that gives it its lightweight. 285 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:11.839 So it has when you say it has a poor structure, 286 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.599 I can't understand how it can. You can create a 287 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.640 vacuum withinside a chamber. 288 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:18.160 How does that? 289 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:19.279 How does that work? 290 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:24.079 Sure? So these pores are extremely small, we're talking on 291 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:30.799 the nanoscale, pores, not not not large. So because the 292 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.799 pores are so small, the mean free path for an 293 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:43.079 atom of air or a molecule of our atmosphere won't 294 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:47.759 be able to travel through that network of pores. The 295 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:53.119 it bounces essentially off of the walls of the pores. 296 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.240 And sort of gets trapped, so it'll never make it 297 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:01.319 through the material itself if attempts to get into one 298 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:06.079 of these pores. Because the size of the connectivity between 299 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:11.640 the pores is so small, the essentially molecules of the 300 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.480 atmosphere get trapped in this maze of porosity. 301 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.720 I got it. And it's just so this is something 302 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.079 I can't really understand how this was created and all that, 303 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.039 but I mean it's just something that they can use, 304 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.240 like nano. I can't forget what it was. But there's 305 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.759 some type of like this weave that's really thin but 306 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:37.319 very strong. Is that anything to do with it or 307 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.000 can it be coated with something like that to make it? 308 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.720 Are you talking about graphene? 309 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:44.839 Yeah, graphine, that's it. Yes, Yeah. 310 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:51.359 So one of the interesting aerogels is actually called aero graphene, 311 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.519 and it is an aerogel that is made out of graphene. 312 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.559 So you make a gel of graphene and a liquid, 313 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:04.799 and you remove the liquid from this gel in a 314 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.599 supercritical drying process, and what you're left with is a 315 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:15.400 skeleton of interconnected graphine molecules called aerographine, and it has 316 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.839 the same properties as some of the other aerogels, but 317 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.839 the aerographine is also conductive because of the properties of graphene. 318 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.799 Okay, we should say this to the listener. We're talking 319 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:34.599 now about things since basically nineteen thirty, since this was invented, 320 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.079 and you know, going forward. But let's talk about I 321 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:40.400 know you have given me some graphics that I can 322 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.000 pull up, but let's talk about the evolution of what 323 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:43.400 we know. 324 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.720 I know that is in one of these I think, 325 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:48.319 is it here? 326 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:49.559 Is that it? Yeah? 327 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:51.720 Sure, that's a good graphic to start with. 328 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:52.559 Okay, So. 329 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.119 If you start over there at the left hand side 330 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:03.119 at eighteen fifty, there is, as we've already discussed, predecessor airships. 331 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.039 But as you go through this development from eighteen fifty 332 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:13.480 to nineteen sixty, you can see the rapid technological process 333 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.319 or progress that is being made. We start with a 334 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:23.559 simple Giffard blimp, fairly low level flying in the atmosphere, 335 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:30.759 and it progresses through these decades to getting the Hindenburg, 336 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.400 the Akron, and the Macon, which were used by the 337 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.279 US Navy. 338 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:37.720 There was a. 339 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:42.200 Staggering amount of progress made through the first half of 340 00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:46.799 the nineteen hundreds, and in nineteen sixty all of this 341 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:54.519 progress seemingly stops. At the time. You have the US's 342 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.200 Project Genetrix and Project Mogul, Project Skyhook, a bunch of 343 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:06.839 balloon programs that are happening in secret because their intention 344 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.200 is to conduct reconnaissance on the Soviet Union. So even 345 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:17.079 if you were in the US Army at a base 346 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.079 where these Project Mogul balloons are being launched from in 347 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:24.920 the nineteen fifties, you would not know of their existence 348 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:29.160 because they are being held as a closely held secret project. 349 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:40.519 So this did result in some unfortunate encounters. I think 350 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.799 there was a man named B. C. Moore, he was 351 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:49.839 involved with Project Mogul. On his own obituary, he claims 352 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.880 that one of the Project Mogul balloons that he launched 353 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:58.880 was what crashed at Roswell, And of course there is 354 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:03.000 going to be a lot of of a lot of 355 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:09.559 pushback on that. But during the research of these programs, 356 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:13.160 I found that man's obituary and he claims a very 357 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:17.640 specific balloon and provides timings for it which do match 358 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.559 up with the Roswell incident. 359 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.240 Well, there would be a lot of questions when it 360 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.559 comes to that, like, for instance, why if it was 361 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.640 made of normal materials which it was, and it crashed 362 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:31.480 from the ground. Why would it be such a secret? 363 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.799 Why would they scan every single inch of the property 364 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.799 where it supposedly was, and why would there be so 365 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.920 many people involved and then flown to another air base 366 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:43.960 and all that. I mean, there's a lot of there's 367 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.880 a lot of moving parts that would have to be 368 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:51.440 addressed if that was just the mogul. Sure so, yeah, 369 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:53.559 And why would they Why would the Army Air Force 370 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.319 claim that they captured a disc in the first place? 371 00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:57.839 You know? 372 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.799 Sure? So. The balloon itself is made out of a 373 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:06.920 fairly typical plastic at the time, But the sensor tether 374 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.680 that is below the balloon, the image that you just showed, 375 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:16.119 the sensors and the battery technology that is powering those 376 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:21.559 sensors would be what is considered the top secret part 377 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.839 of that mogul mission. Those were not widely known at 378 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:30.920 the time. As you can see, they don't look like 379 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.960 a balloon and they don't look like any kind of 380 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:37.880 aircraft that would be expected to be in our skies 381 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.359 at the time. So when that comes down surrounded by 382 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:48.880 a bunch of lightweight metallized plastic, it could have been 383 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.559 mistaken by the ranchers, who would have known nothing of 384 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:58.759 Project Mogul, or balloons or sensor tethers or experimental batteries 385 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.759 that are powering them. The reason that they recovered it 386 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.240 and the reason that it was sent back to Wright 387 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:11.759 Patterson Air Base. We can see in documentation from nineteen 388 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:18.640 fifty six that Wright Patterson Air Base, Redstone Arsenal, and 389 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:24.039 Los Alamos National Labs are designated as the three primary 390 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:29.960 contacts for helium, hydrogen and aerogels research. So the three 391 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:35.119 lighter than air technologies are all concentrated at Redstone Arsenal, 392 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.519 Wright Patterson Air Base, and Los Alamos National Labs as 393 00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:44.720 far back as nineteen fifty six in AEC documentation. And 394 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:50.000 AEC is the predecessor of the modern Department of Energy. 395 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.559 Oh really, okay, I didn't know that. So are you? 396 00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:00.680 Basically on the school of that this was Roswell the Mogul, 397 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.079 And that's explained. 398 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.440 I am the man's obituary, as well as the fact 399 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.000 that the material was sent back to Right Patterson, which 400 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.960 if you look at Right Patterson, this went to hangars, 401 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:20.680