WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone, it's Mike from Locations unknown. Thank you once

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<v Speaker 1>again for tuning in. Just a quick note about tonight's episode.

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<v Speaker 1>You may notice once you start listening that my voice

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<v Speaker 1>sounds terrible. Well, I had just gotten over a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>bad cold for a couple of weeks. I felt fine,

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<v Speaker 1>so we decided to record an episode. But my voice,

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<v Speaker 1>to put it bluntly, is terrible, and I apologize for that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling really good now. My voice is probably back

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<v Speaker 1>to ninety nine percent. We actually recorded another episode since

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<v Speaker 1>this one, so we'll be back to normal soon. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope you enjoy this episode, even with my terrible voice.

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<v Speaker 1>I've done a lot of editing to try to make

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<v Speaker 1>it it sound as good as possible, but there's just

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<v Speaker 1>no getting around it. And it is a very interesting episode.

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<v Speaker 1>We did an update on Selene Kremer. We covered the

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<v Speaker 1>original case back in twenty twenty three, so there's been

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of updates. Sunset happens. Hope you enjoy the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>I apologize again for my awful voice, and I just

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<v Speaker 1>let you know that we're going to be back to normal.

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<v Speaker 1>My voice'll be back to normal and see you next time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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<v Speaker 2>us as we dive into the deep end of the

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<v Speaker 2>unexplainable and try to piece together what happened. You are

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<v Speaker 2>listening to Locations Unknown. Oh what's up everybody? And welcome

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<v Speaker 2>back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your co

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<v Speaker 2>host Joey roddal with me as always is a guy

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<v Speaker 2>who always gets his revenge. Mike vander Bogart Ah, Thank.

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<v Speaker 3>You, Joe, and thank you to all of our loyal

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<v Speaker 3>listeners for tuning in. Apologize for my voice, got a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit of a.

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<v Speaker 2>You should apologize for being sick. That's ridiculous. How do

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<v Speaker 2>I sound terrible? Terrible?

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<v Speaker 3>Joe's gonna do a lot of the talking this one, so.

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<v Speaker 2>Nope, nope, We're gonna make it. I'm just gonna make it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna get way worse. So just a few.

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<v Speaker 3>Patreon shout outs before we get going, So thank you

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<v Speaker 3>to Sarah McCoy, Ashley Estrada, Dana Tally. And that's it.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought we had more. If you want to call

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<v Speaker 3>the show, you can call two eight three nine one three.

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<v Speaker 3>We also have some other podcasts on the network you

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<v Speaker 3>can check out off the trails. Who runs this park?

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<v Speaker 3>Crime off the Grid and relish. If you want to

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<v Speaker 3>support the show, you can support us through Patreon, YouTube memberships,

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<v Speaker 3>premium subscriptions, and Apple buy some stuff on our store.

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<v Speaker 3>You can always just like and comment wherever you find

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<v Speaker 3>locations unknown. It helps with the algorithms. Outside of that,

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<v Speaker 3>what's been going on with you?

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<v Speaker 2>Joe just got back from Cozumela on a diving trip.

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<v Speaker 2>It was amazing. I did not get lost in the ocean.

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<v Speaker 2>That's good. Those goods on back and that's why it's

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<v Speaker 2>been taking so long.

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<v Speaker 3>But you didn't didn't drink the water?

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<v Speaker 2>I did not? Well, I did at the resort. We

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<v Speaker 2>had clean water, Okay, so it's perfect. Yeah, So all right, everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown.

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<v Speaker 2>In August twenty twenty three, we covered the disappearance of

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<v Speaker 2>a thirty one year old Belgian traveler who vanished after

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<v Speaker 2>setting out on a short walk to Philosopher Falls in

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<v Speaker 2>the dense rainforest of northwest Tasmania. What appeared to be

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<v Speaker 2>a brief tourist hike quickly became a mystery shaped by

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<v Speaker 2>harsh winter weather, difficult terrain, and weeks of intense search efforts. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>nearly three years later, new developments have brought investigators and

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<v Speaker 2>her family closer to understanding what may have happened. In

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<v Speaker 2>this update episode, we revisit the case, walk through the

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<v Speaker 2>latest search efforts, examine newly discovered evidence, and look at

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<v Speaker 2>how phone data, volunteer searches, and the unforgiving landscape around

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<v Speaker 2>Philosopher Falls have reshaped in the leading theory in Selene's disappearance.

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<v Speaker 2>Join us this week as we continue the investigation into

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<v Speaker 2>the mysterious disappearance of Selene Kremer.

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<v Speaker 3>So, we've never gotten more comments on our episode like hey,

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<v Speaker 3>you know big updates in the case, were like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we did this episode three years ago, Like.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, like everyone is aware of the updates. Like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people, a lot of people are aware of

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<v Speaker 2>this show and they're like, hey, let's go.

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<v Speaker 3>They're like, hey, there's these big updates, and I would

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<v Speaker 3>reply back like, yeah, we know, we did this three

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<v Speaker 3>years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know what I was wondering just now, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder how many of those people are listeners who

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<v Speaker 2>knew or they just found out about the case and

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<v Speaker 2>that there's updates, and then they'd like Go Keyboard Warrior,

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<v Speaker 2>all the podcasts like to be important. Yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I'm not saying that's a bad thing, Like

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<v Speaker 2>we get to find out either way. But I never

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<v Speaker 2>thought of it that way, except I always assumed it

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<v Speaker 2>was just listeners who remember every episode right and come

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<v Speaker 2>back and like, oh, I knew about this, but I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't realize that maybe just amongst the lost forms, when

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<v Speaker 2>an update goes, everyone just runs to everywhere. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>the town crier.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean I think for a while there, the

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<v Speaker 3>case was blowing back up again and we were showing

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<v Speaker 3>up in a lot of the search results.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm saying. They're listening to the like hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this is out of date, and then we come comment

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just kind of funny.

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<v Speaker 3>People are like almost like mad at us, like hey,

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<v Speaker 3>like they're like, yeah, sorry, we did this three years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I wonder what the conversion rate is

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<v Speaker 2>on those people. Yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, we released our original episode in August of

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>Three, so all right, a few years ago.

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<v Speaker 3>So we're just gonna go through a quick location climate

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<v Speaker 3>profile and then we'll get into timeline love it.

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<v Speaker 2>So Selene disappeared in one of those spots that looks

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<v Speaker 2>like a quick tourist walk on paper, but sits inside

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<v Speaker 2>very serious country once you step off the built path.

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<v Speaker 2>So Philosopher Falls is a short rainforest track about ten

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<v Speaker 2>minutes drive south of the small mining town of Warata

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<v Speaker 2>in northwest tans Mania. Ches. I'm the we had computer

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<v Speaker 2>issues for like an hour and a half. We should

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<v Speaker 2>be done recording right now, and it's thrown me off

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<v Speaker 2>on the fridge in the Tarkien Fringe fringe of the

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<v Speaker 2>Darkian near Savage River National Park. Yeah, this is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a rough one with your voice and in

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<v Speaker 2>my mental acuity. The drive is a simple sealed then

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<v Speaker 2>unsealed road with a small car park in a clearly

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<v Speaker 2>marked trailhead leading into cool, temperate rainforest. The form walk

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<v Speaker 2>is roughly one point eight miles or three kilometers return,

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<v Speaker 2>with about three hundred and fifty to three hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>eighty feet or one hundred and fifteen meters of elevation gain,

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<v Speaker 2>and is usually graded as an easy to moderate one

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<v Speaker 2>to one and a half hour outing to a fenced

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<v Speaker 2>viewing platform above multi tiered waterfall. So this is a

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<v Speaker 2>very tourist friendly, like kind of paved path that lots

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<v Speaker 2>of people do. It's short, quick and sweet, should be

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<v Speaker 2>so that tourist friendly track sits at about six hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and sixty six fifty meters of elevation in a band

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<v Speaker 2>of forest that gets a regular winter snow, icy rain,

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<v Speaker 2>and sub zero overnight temperatures. I just never think of

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<v Speaker 2>rainforest and snow in ice. I don't. So once you

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<v Speaker 2>leave the form path and the safety railings, the terrain

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<v Speaker 2>changes immediately steep side slopes dropping towards the creek, slick

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<v Speaker 2>roots and mossy rock, tangled her horizontal scrub that forces

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<v Speaker 2>you to push and crawl in a maze of old water,

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<v Speaker 2>raised cuttings, and informal footpads that are not signposted, not maintained,

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<v Speaker 2>and not obvious from above. The broader setting is a

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<v Speaker 2>remote is remote by Tasmanian standards, but still close enough

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<v Speaker 2>to a town to feel deceptively tame. Waratah is only

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<v Speaker 2>about nine to ten kilometers away by road. Yet the

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<v Speaker 2>bush around the falls and the Arthur River seven mile

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<v Speaker 2>creek corridor is dense, dark and slow to move through,

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<v Speaker 2>with limited phone reception and very few obvious landmarks, you're

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<v Speaker 2>off Once you're off track, you're off track. Yeah. That

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<v Speaker 2>combination a short Instagram hike quote unquote at the edge

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<v Speaker 2>of serious rainforest winter conditions and a maze of unmarked

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<v Speaker 2>features defines the location where Slen parked her car, walked in,

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<v Speaker 2>left the trail, and ultimately vanished. So a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about the climate where she met missing is classic West

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<v Speaker 2>Coast Tasmania, cool, wet, voltle with winter conditions that can

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<v Speaker 2>turn deadly fast if you're lightly Equippedall sits at the

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<v Speaker 2>Takana rainforest belt of northwest Tasmania, a region with a cool,

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<v Speaker 2>temperate maritime climate, mild by Australian standards, but very wet,

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<v Speaker 2>especially on the western slopes. Statewide, summers are comfortable, with

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<v Speaker 2>winters cold and windy, with average highs in winter around

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<v Speaker 2>eleven to thirteen celsius that's the low fifties on the coast,

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<v Speaker 2>and colder again inland at an elevation the broader islands,

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<v Speaker 2>winter maximums typically run about three to eleven degrees celsius.

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<v Speaker 2>The Stanley and Tarkaine region, which covers Wartaw and the

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<v Speaker 2>surrounding rainforest, gets up to two four hundred millimeters of

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<v Speaker 2>rainy year, making it one of the wettest parts of

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<v Speaker 2>Tasmania and keeping the rainforest lush, but trails frequently met wet,

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<v Speaker 2>muddy and slippery. Up in the rainforest where the Philosopher

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<v Speaker 2>Falls track runs at roughly six hundred to six hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty meters of elevation. That maritime pattern translates into

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<v Speaker 2>frequent low cloud, regular rain and drizzle, and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of cold, damp days even outside midwinter. In winter and

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<v Speaker 2>early spring, it's common to see snowfalls, icy winds, and

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<v Speaker 2>overnight frosts on the higher ground, with daytime highs sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>only just above freezing and the wind chill pushing perceived

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<v Speaker 2>temperatures lower. Walker's trip reports talk about raining and the

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<v Speaker 2>forest dripping as a normal experience, and locals warn that

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<v Speaker 2>weather can pivot quickly from clear to sleet or hail,

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<v Speaker 2>especially around fronts, exactly the pattern that was in place

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<v Speaker 2>during the June July twenty twenty three season, when freezing temperatures,

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<v Speaker 2>snow and rain triggered a bush walker's a weather alert

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<v Speaker 2>for the Warataw area. I'm gonna look up what that

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<v Speaker 2>is when you're talking, Okay, A bushwalker's weather alert that

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<v Speaker 2>mix cold air, high rainfall, frequent wind, and rapid weather

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<v Speaker 2>changes over rugged shaded terrain creates high hypothermia risks for

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<v Speaker 2>anyone caught out without proper insulation, waterproofs, and shelter partiarticularly

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<v Speaker 2>in June when the wet season is ramping up and

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<v Speaker 2>days are short. Tell us about Selene Kremer.

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<v Speaker 3>Mike, Yeah, so real quick here. Her name was Selene Kremer.

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<v Speaker 3>She was born June thirteenth of nineteen ninety two. Her

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<v Speaker 3>last confirmed sighting was June seventeenth, twenty twenty three, when

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<v Speaker 3>she was reported missing. June twenty sixth of twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 3>Like Joe said, she was thirty one at the time

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<v Speaker 3>of her disappearance. She was approximately five foot five to

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<v Speaker 3>five foot seven. We don't have a reported weight, but

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<v Speaker 3>she was described as average build. She had brown hair,

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<v Speaker 3>brown eyes, no other widely reported distinguishing marks like tattoos

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<v Speaker 3>or scars. Okay, clothing and gears she was last seen in,

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<v Speaker 3>so she was believed to being dressed for a short

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<v Speaker 3>light day hike, not an overnight or multi day trip.

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<v Speaker 3>Reports and later Fine suggests she wore layered clothing, including

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<v Speaker 3>a thermal top and a polar fleece jacket with additional

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<v Speaker 3>basic Graham protection improvised from a garbage bag, and she

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<v Speaker 3>carried a small pack with limited food and water and

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<v Speaker 3>her phone. Personality wise, she was portrayed by family and

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<v Speaker 3>friends as very adventurous and curious and optimistic, someone who

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<v Speaker 3>loved nature and travel and who had saved and planned

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<v Speaker 3>for a long Australian trip for years. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>she was very comfortable with independent and solo travel to

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<v Speaker 3>remote areas, and this is backed up by a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of her social media posts and photos. Far as medical issues,

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<v Speaker 3>there was nothing publicly indicated that I have any significance,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, pre existing conditions such as seizures or cardiac

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<v Speaker 3>issues or any mobility issues and pretty much just a

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<v Speaker 3>healthy adult. There really wasn't anything to go on for

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<v Speaker 3>that occupation hobby. Back in Belgium, Selene worked in roles

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<v Speaker 3>that allowed her to save and then take it extended

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<v Speaker 3>travel time. Sources sometimes describe her as having an ordinary

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<v Speaker 3>job rather than a professional guiding her outdoor career and

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00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:17.000
<v Speaker 3>her hobbies were travel, hiking, photography. She was actively exploring

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<v Speaker 3>Tasmania at this time. Sounds like a fun, fun trip

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00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Joe's got some pictures over her that he's showing on

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<v Speaker 3>the screen here.

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<v Speaker 2>Not yet. I always do that, yep, experience in the wilderness.

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<v Speaker 3>So Selene had enough outdoor experience to really be comfortable

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<v Speaker 3>during solo hikes on mark trails and foreign countries. She

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<v Speaker 3>had spent months traveling around the island visiting popular natural

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<v Speaker 3>sites and appeared very confident on maintain trails. At the

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<v Speaker 3>same time, though, there is no sign she was a

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00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:53.960
<v Speaker 3>specialist pushwalker as they call him out there, and evidence

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00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.919
<v Speaker 3>suggests she treated Philosopher Falls as a short tourist walk,

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<v Speaker 3>not a serious backcountry trip. So, like we said, light clothing,

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<v Speaker 3>no overnight gear, stuff like that. So her experience level

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<v Speaker 3>for what she intended to do is pretty normal. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>the trail she was taking was well maintained quick, it

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<v Speaker 3>was going to be in and out, so you know, nothing,

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00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.279
<v Speaker 3>no red flags there. So we'll jump right into timeline

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<v Speaker 3>here and I will cover the timeline kind of leading

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<v Speaker 3>up to our original episode, and then we'll go into

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<v Speaker 3>the new theory or the new developments, and then at

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<v Speaker 3>the end we're going to play our old theories. I

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00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.039
<v Speaker 3>love it, and then we will discuss the new theories

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00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.919
<v Speaker 3>that have come about since the New Discoveries. Our timeline

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00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.799
<v Speaker 3>starts early twenty twenty three, so Sleen had been living

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<v Speaker 3>in Tasmania for about six months, using Hobart as a

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00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.919
<v Speaker 3>loose base while she explored the island. She spent that

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00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.960
<v Speaker 3>time hiking and sight seeing, and on February twenty second

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00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.519
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty three, she posted a photo from the

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<v Speaker 3>top of Mount Wellington with the caption a Little Devil

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<v Speaker 3>in Tasmania, which was a snapshot of how much she

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00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.039
<v Speaker 3>had fallen in love with landscape. Her family would later

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<v Speaker 3>go on to say that she had already booked her

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<v Speaker 3>next step, a fairy trip on the Spirit of Tasmania

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<v Speaker 3>to Victoria on June twenty first. Unfortunately, this was a

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<v Speaker 3>booking she never made. In the months before winter, she

253
00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:27.519
<v Speaker 3>became especially drawn to the temperate rainforests and old mining

254
00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:32.360
<v Speaker 3>country in the northwest around Warta and the Philosopher Falls.

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<v Speaker 3>She's been all over the island. It's mid June two

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<v Speaker 3>thousand and three, twenty twenty three. In the days leading

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<v Speaker 3>up to her disappearance, Sleen stayed in interminute touch with

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00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.200
<v Speaker 3>friends and family back in Belgium. Early media reports put

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00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:51.320
<v Speaker 3>her last contact somewhere between the twelfth and sixteenth of June,

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<v Speaker 3>reflecting that no one initially knew the exact day she

261
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.799
<v Speaker 3>stopped replying. Police later summarized that she had not been

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00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.279
<v Speaker 3>in contact since the twelfth, but they were clear that

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00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:05.440
<v Speaker 3>the last confirmed sighting came a little later. By Saturday,

264
00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:10.639
<v Speaker 3>June seventeenth, she had traveled to Warataw, a small historic

265
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:16.240
<v Speaker 3>mining town about nine kilometers from Flaster Falls trailhead. Multiple

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00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:20.559
<v Speaker 3>police briefings and news stories now agree that this is

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00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:25.240
<v Speaker 3>the last time anyone definitively remembered seeing her, with Inspector

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00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:29.240
<v Speaker 3>Andrew Hansen later calling it the last confirmed sighting and

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00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.480
<v Speaker 3>describing her as alone driving a white Honda CRV, and

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00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.159
<v Speaker 3>at some point in that day she drove the short

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<v Speaker 3>unsealed road from town out to Flaster Falls car Park.

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<v Speaker 3>The main track from there is a graded signposted one

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<v Speaker 3>point six mile out and back walk through dense rainforest

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<v Speaker 3>to a waterfall viewing platform. But beyond that built path,

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<v Speaker 3>like Shoe described, the country becomes very remote, steep and

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00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:00.960
<v Speaker 3>tangled with vegetation. Easy hike if you stay on, very

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00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.799
<v Speaker 3>difficult if you go off trail at all. So on

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<v Speaker 3>June seventeenth, Selene left her Honda at the car park.

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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.880
<v Speaker 3>From all intents and purposes, was a short day hike

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<v Speaker 3>to the falls and back. She was, like I said earlier,

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00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.680
<v Speaker 3>only equipped for a light outing, no overnight gear, no

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00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:22.720
<v Speaker 3>heavy cold weather layers, which police emphasized this early on

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00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.200
<v Speaker 3>in the search, so it was very important for them

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00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.000
<v Speaker 3>to mention that it was going to be a very

285
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:32.839
<v Speaker 3>light walk. For and for many months, the only solid

286
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.599
<v Speaker 3>framework for her movements that day came from police statements

287
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.920
<v Speaker 3>that her phone was believed to have lost signal around

288
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.039
<v Speaker 3>the twentieth of June, and that she likely left the

289
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.519
<v Speaker 3>car sometime in that window for a day walk. Later,

290
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.519
<v Speaker 3>privately commissioned analysis of tower hits and at base GPS

291
00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:55.319
<v Speaker 3>lugs added more granularity to her movements, placing her leaving

292
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.440
<v Speaker 3>the car park in mid afternoon, following the track to

293
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:03.279
<v Speaker 3>the falls, and then continuing beyond the platform into scrubby

294
00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:08.559
<v Speaker 3>steep ground above the waterfall. But they treated those details

295
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.640
<v Speaker 3>as tentative because they didn't come from the initial police record.

296
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:16.640
<v Speaker 3>So in those reconstructions, her phone's GPS shows positions along

297
00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:20.119
<v Speaker 3>a water race line and up to and up onto

298
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.440
<v Speaker 3>a ridge, with a final recorded point around four eighteen pm,

299
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:28.279
<v Speaker 3>as she appears to turn back off track into the rain.

300
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.599
<v Speaker 3>Police themselves stayed in their statements to the public very broad.

301
00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:36.279
<v Speaker 3>They said they believe she left the mark trail, became

302
00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.960
<v Speaker 3>lost and confused and very dense brush, and never made

303
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.039
<v Speaker 3>it back to the car before dark. What everyone could

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00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.279
<v Speaker 3>agree on at this time was that after late afternoon

305
00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:48.240
<v Speaker 3>on the seventeenth, no one saw her return to the

306
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.640
<v Speaker 3>car park, no further calls or messages went out, and

307
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.119
<v Speaker 3>the Honda remained locked and unattended. So between June eighteenth

308
00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.400
<v Speaker 3>and twenty fifth, other walkers continued to use Lost or

309
00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:04.279
<v Speaker 3>Falls track. When the missing person's investigation got rolling, police

310
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.480
<v Speaker 3>later said they heard from several hikers who had been

311
00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.119
<v Speaker 3>in the area between the seventeenth and the end of

312
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.000
<v Speaker 3>the month, with memories of cars in the car park

313
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.400
<v Speaker 3>and people on the trail. One specific appeal went out

314
00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.319
<v Speaker 3>for a person on the trail around two thirty pm Sunday,

315
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.359
<v Speaker 3>June eighteenth. Officers stressed this was not a suspect, just

316
00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.960
<v Speaker 3>someone who might help fill in the timeline. The walker

317
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:33.039
<v Speaker 3>was eventually identified and interviewed, but didn't have any anything

318
00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.680
<v Speaker 3>that definitively pinned down Selene's movements, so then June twenty

319
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.839
<v Speaker 3>first came and went without her boarding the Spirit of

320
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.759
<v Speaker 3>Tasmania to Victoria. That missed fairy was a huge red

321
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.279
<v Speaker 3>flag for her family and friends, who had been expecting

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00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.400
<v Speaker 3>to hear from her as she crossed to the mainland.

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00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.920
<v Speaker 3>As days passed with no messages and no sign of

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00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:58.559
<v Speaker 3>her on the ferry manifest they escalated their concern to

325
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.559
<v Speaker 3>the Tasmanian authorities. It's now June twenty sixth. It's a

326
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.839
<v Speaker 3>Monday of twenty twenty three. Tasmanian Police receive a formal

327
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.599
<v Speaker 3>concern for welfare report from Selene's friends and family. Publicly,

328
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.759
<v Speaker 3>they described a Belgian woman traveling the state in a

329
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.839
<v Speaker 3>white Honda CRV, last seen in Hobart and believed to

330
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.839
<v Speaker 3>be headed toward the West coast, and asked anyone who

331
00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:23.839
<v Speaker 3>had seen her or her vehicle since June twelfth to

332
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:29.960
<v Speaker 3>contact them. The next day, June twenty seventh, officers checking

333
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.440
<v Speaker 3>likely west coast locations right away found her SUV parked

334
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.759
<v Speaker 3>at the car park. The vehicle was locked and unattended.

335
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.240
<v Speaker 3>There was no trace of Selene in the immediate area.

336
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.440
<v Speaker 3>Search and Rescue teams supported by a police drone then

337
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:48.279
<v Speaker 3>immediately began searching around the car park and along the

338
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.039
<v Speaker 3>walking track, and police closed the whole area to the

339
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.559
<v Speaker 3>public so they could work without any interference. And it

340
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.240
<v Speaker 3>looks like Joe is showing some pictures.

341
00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.519
<v Speaker 2>Of the yes search, look at all that is? Yeah,

342
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:02.680
<v Speaker 2>it is gnarly.

343
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:04.400
<v Speaker 3>That is some thick jungle.

344
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the bush, the bush? Right, I had a search

345
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:11.039
<v Speaker 2>and the bush.

346
00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:13.519
<v Speaker 3>Then, Mike, I had a guy the other day delivered

347
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:16.200
<v Speaker 3>door dash to our house that sounded like the Crocodile Hunter.

348
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.559
<v Speaker 2>It was pretty funny bringing in some doll dash. I

349
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Mike I almost like.

350
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.079
<v Speaker 3>Asked him, like, could you record a few lines from me?

351
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Like some dar dash lines in Australia show? Yeah, did

352
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:29.519
<v Speaker 2>you know why?

353
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:30.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't know?

354
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Do it? Next time? I will order from the same guy.

355
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I have to figure out who who is? You should

356
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.119
<v Speaker 2>be able to look up your driver. Yeah, I don't remember,

357
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.680
<v Speaker 2>like you know, go on your app and learn history.

358
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.319
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean, of course? Do you remember what

359
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.759
<v Speaker 2>you ate? What do you deliver? I was shrimp on

360
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.880
<v Speaker 2>a ball eight right? Where was I playing? Knife? Spoony?

361
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.720
<v Speaker 3>Knife, spooney, that's not a knife.

362
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.920
<v Speaker 2>So you played naifey spoony before.

363
00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:03.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so sorry, I'm just gonna swap my section out

364
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>with like an Australian guy.

365
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:09.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, crocking. My threat's been hurt. Got a bit ill

366
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.480
<v Speaker 2>the other day from the little lads running around.

367
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:17.640
<v Speaker 3>All right, It's now Wednesday, June twenty eighth. Ground teams

368
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.279
<v Speaker 3>and drone and the drone unit continued to grid the

369
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:25.799
<v Speaker 3>Philosopher Falls area with a police helicopter on standby. There

370
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.640
<v Speaker 3>was a cold front rolling over Tasmania's west, which meant

371
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:35.599
<v Speaker 3>conditions were already deteriorating. There was light snowfalling, a bushwalker's

372
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:39.559
<v Speaker 3>weather alert was active, and nighttime temperatures were dropping below freezing.

373
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<v Speaker 3>By June twenty ninth, Inspector Anthea Maingey was blunt about

374
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.400
<v Speaker 3>the seriousness of the situation. She laid out what had

375
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:55.039
<v Speaker 3>been done ground cruise drones, planned helicopter sorties, and underline

376
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:57.839
<v Speaker 3>that no sign of Sleen had turned up since the

377
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:01.559
<v Speaker 3>car was found. She warned that the combination of freezing temperatures,

378
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:06.559
<v Speaker 3>snow and rain had created conditions not survivable for the

379
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.119
<v Speaker 3>length of time that celine is thought to have been

380
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 3>exposed in the wilderness, and this was a conclusion obviously

381
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.559
<v Speaker 3>backed by medical advice and based on what she was

382
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.680
<v Speaker 3>wearing and packed with her she was not prepared for

383
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.680
<v Speaker 3>conditions below freezing with snow and wind and all that stuff.

384
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:28.160
<v Speaker 3>So at this stage police believed her car had been

385
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:31.359
<v Speaker 3>sitting in the car park since at least June twentieth,

386
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:35.000
<v Speaker 3>and later refinements to this suggested it might have been

387
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:38.680
<v Speaker 3>there since as early as June seventeenth, based on witness

388
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:42.880
<v Speaker 3>reports and phone activity analysis. But throughout they hammered the

389
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:45.160
<v Speaker 3>point that she had only packed for a light day

390
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:46.599
<v Speaker 3>when she left.

391
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So Bushwicker's Weather ALERTE was a specific weather alert

392
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.839
<v Speaker 2>advised by meteorological agencies in Australia, warning hikers and campers

393
00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>of forecast conditions at post severe risk outdoor safety. That

394
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.480
<v Speaker 2>like the triggers are what you'd expect, high heat, high winds, cold, wet,

395
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.720
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. Yeah, but best practices are saying if

396
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.680
<v Speaker 2>they issue a Bushwalker's Weather Alert, like you're supposed to postpone,

397
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:14.880
<v Speaker 2>cancel or completely re route your trip to avoid the

398
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>affected areas. They're not saying like be careful or dress appropriately.

399
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>They're just saying like, just don't just don't do it.

400
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>So they must only do that if it's very hazardous,

401
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and if we have some listeners from down on that

402
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:29.240
<v Speaker 2>you can let us know if that's true.

403
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.559
<v Speaker 3>I wonder in the US what that would be, like

404
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:37.200
<v Speaker 3>a severe like a winter storm warning if they yes, but.

405
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>They don't ever like say, hey, I guess, yeah, I guess,

406
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Like there's probably somewhere written like if we issue this,

407
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:43.359
<v Speaker 2>this is the record.

408
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:46.079
<v Speaker 3>Probably like yeah, like if they issue one for like Yoseboy,

409
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:49.119
<v Speaker 3>maybe they add some language like change your plans.

410
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:51.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's like when you were there and it was

411
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>on fire. Yeah, and like, hey, maybe you don't camp here. Yeah,

412
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:57.759
<v Speaker 2>it's on fire.

413
00:24:57.880 --> 00:24:59.599
<v Speaker 3>There's literally ash falling from the sky.

414
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe. Yeah, you see how everyone's leaving their homes. Yes,

415
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.799
<v Speaker 2>don't go into the woods either. Yeah. Okay, I guess

416
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 2>I could have guessed that, but I wanted to make

417
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:10.839
<v Speaker 2>sure it was correct. Yeah.

418
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.960
<v Speaker 3>So it's now Friday, June thirtieth, and the search now

419
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.000
<v Speaker 3>is focusing more on the waterfall and gorge itself. Search

420
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:22.839
<v Speaker 3>and rescue specialists repelled from the viewing platform down towards

421
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.839
<v Speaker 3>the base of Philosopher Falls, checking ledges, cliff faces, and

422
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.880
<v Speaker 3>thick vegetation along the watercourse or any signs of a fall,

423
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.559
<v Speaker 3>maybe a shelter or drop gear. Walking tracks stayed close

424
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.559
<v Speaker 3>again to the public while they worked. It's now July first.

425
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:43.200
<v Speaker 3>This is when Tasmanian SES teams brought in ATVs to

426
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.880
<v Speaker 3>work forestry and access roads around the falls. They extend,

427
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, extending the search net outwards. While detectives got

428
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:55.160
<v Speaker 3>piecing together her movements between the seventeenth and when she

429
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 3>was reported missing, people who'd walk there in the period

430
00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.599
<v Speaker 3>continued to forward with what they'd seen. On Sunday, July second,

431
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.799
<v Speaker 3>Search and Rescue and SES personnel ran a track offset

432
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.119
<v Speaker 3>search along Butler's Road in the morning. In the afternoon,

433
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:15.119
<v Speaker 3>the weather finally cooperated enough for the Westpac Rescue helicopter

434
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.680
<v Speaker 3>to fly, giving them an aerial view of the Philosopher

435
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.400
<v Speaker 3>Falls region that hadn't been possible in the earlier low

436
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.720
<v Speaker 3>cloud and snow. All Right, so we're getting into the

437
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:31.319
<v Speaker 3>final update of our previous episode. So it is July

438
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:35.880
<v Speaker 3>ninth and tenth of twenty twenty three. So after almost

439
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:40.960
<v Speaker 3>two straight weeks of operations in this crazy statement snow

440
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.839
<v Speaker 3>affected rainforest, Tasmanian police did a full review of the search.

441
00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 3>By Sunday, July ninth, they were already signaling a wind down.

442
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.119
<v Speaker 3>On Monday, July tenth, Commander Stuart Wilkinson formally announced that

443
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.920
<v Speaker 3>the major ground and air search around Warsaw and the

444
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.799
<v Speaker 3>Philosopher Falls area was being suspended. He walked through just

445
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.200
<v Speaker 3>how much had been thrown at the case, police and

446
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:10.559
<v Speaker 3>SES ground crews, specialist swift water teams, ATVs, drones, and

447
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:15.359
<v Speaker 3>repeated helicopter missions, and acknowledged that considerable search efforts have

448
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.160
<v Speaker 3>been undertaken in difficult terrain and treacherous weather conditions, but

449
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.200
<v Speaker 3>unfortunately Sleen has not been located. He also made it

450
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.039
<v Speaker 3>clear that, based on medical advice, she could not have

451
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.680
<v Speaker 3>survived the duration and severity of the conditions she likely

452
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:34.000
<v Speaker 3>experienced since going missing, and at the same time he

453
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:38.720
<v Speaker 3>emphasized that the missing person investigation itself stayed active. The

454
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 3>message was boots were coming off the ground for now,

455
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.759
<v Speaker 3>but the file was not being closed. So that's where

456
00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 3>our old episode left off. We are now going to

457
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:54.079
<v Speaker 3>pick up the new developments in the case since our

458
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 3>last episode. It's now late July twenty twenty three, so

459
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:02.519
<v Speaker 3>new pieces of information later that month, which was primarily

460
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 3>refined phone activity analysis and possible earlier sightings over Honda

461
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.440
<v Speaker 3>the car park were enough to justify one more targeted push.

462
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 3>On Friday July twenty eighth, Tasmanian Police called in a

463
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.880
<v Speaker 3>new South Wales Police could have her dog team to

464
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.319
<v Speaker 3>search a fresh area of interest around Philosopher Falls and

465
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:27.039
<v Speaker 3>Ward Zone. Inspector Mangay said this updated phone data had

466
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 3>given them the tighter focus area and that police and

467
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.880
<v Speaker 3>SES crews had already been through it on foot that

468
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:35.400
<v Speaker 3>week without finding anything.

469
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 2>The dog team worked through.

470
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:41.960
<v Speaker 3>The weekend, but by Monday, July thirty, First Commander Wilkinson

471
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.319
<v Speaker 3>had to announce that this renewed effort also ended with

472
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.079
<v Speaker 3>no sign of Selene. He repeated the line that when

473
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.440
<v Speaker 3>a person remains missing, the case never closes, and this

474
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.720
<v Speaker 3>is something that we've see all the time in cases

475
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.480
<v Speaker 3>we cover, so now it's when it starts getting interesting.

476
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.759
<v Speaker 3>Two twenty four is Selene's family retained Australian private guest

477
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.480
<v Speaker 3>investigator can Gamble to re examine the case, believing that

478
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.119
<v Speaker 3>further analysis of digital data and on the ground searching

479
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.640
<v Speaker 3>might reveal what the twenty twenty three operations missed. With

480
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 3>the family's permission, Gamble obtained access to her phone and

481
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:24.319
<v Speaker 3>Google account data, reconstructing app based GPS lugs and tower

482
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:29.680
<v Speaker 3>connections from the day she disappeared. His analysis suggested that

483
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.480
<v Speaker 3>after leaving the march trail near the falls, Selene had

484
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 3>pushed into the section of horizontal scrub and possibly followed

485
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.359
<v Speaker 3>a water race alignment away from the track before her

486
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 3>phone's GPS activity ceased in the afternoon.

487
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>What do you got here? So, I'm I was looking

488
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 2>at what horizontal scrub was? Yeah? Is that something that

489
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't think we have here? And it's a tree

490
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>that girls? Let me pull up the I'm trying to

491
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.400
<v Speaker 2>find like a video of it. Yeah, I just went

492
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:03.279
<v Speaker 2>to like full screen some very ob naxious like legitimately

493
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:04.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know how to get out of this. Facebook. There

494
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:09.279
<v Speaker 2>we go, Facebook, you dummy. I'm gonna read exactly what

495
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:13.079
<v Speaker 2>it says on here. Give me an ai. It sounds

496
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.240
<v Speaker 2>like you're asking about the vory is horizontal scrub found

497
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.119
<v Speaker 2>in Tasmania. It gets his name because its slender trunks

498
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.960
<v Speaker 2>grow vertically, topple over and fall down horizontal, creating an

499
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>almost impenetrable tangled mess of vegetation. That bushwalkers must traverse

500
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.799
<v Speaker 2>sounds awful. Yeah, because it's so incredibly solid and dense,

501
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Walkers often have to literally tread or walk on top

502
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 2>of this elevated layer of scrub, which can sometimes sit

503
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 2>several meters above the actual forest floor. Wow, so you're

504
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:44.279
<v Speaker 2>like walking in the canopy ish type of like, yeah,

505
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:48.359
<v Speaker 2>just walking high up, navigating through or falling through. The

506
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.440
<v Speaker 2>tangled mess is a major hazard in Tasmania's wilderness and

507
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:54.960
<v Speaker 2>is the cause of significant injury, getting disoriented and being

508
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>severely delayed on the trail. Here's what you need to

509
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.319
<v Speaker 2>know about the infamous horizontal scrub. So basically like walking

510
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:04.079
<v Speaker 2>on top of plants that can just give way, and

511
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.039
<v Speaker 2>they said they'll get covered with moss because it's the rainforest.

512
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's not only are you walking on these branches

513
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.400
<v Speaker 2>that have gone other sideways. Yeah, you now have moss

514
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:14.480
<v Speaker 2>on it, so it like blankets it. So if there

515
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 2>is like a hole or like a small twig that

516
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 2>you'd like crack through, it's like you're just stepping into

517
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:24.119
<v Speaker 2>a hole. Sounds dangerous and sounds super dangerous. Hike. Yeah,

518
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.880
<v Speaker 2>So that's gnarly. I'm glad we don't have that yeah.

519
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 3>So Campbell concluded that she had left the main path,

520
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.599
<v Speaker 3>tried to cut back towards the car park or refuge,

521
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 3>and became very badly lost in extremely dense bush as

522
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.880
<v Speaker 3>the winter rains set in, with no evidence of another

523
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:47.400
<v Speaker 3>person's involvement. So also Tasmanian filmmaker and YouTuber Rob Parsons

524
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:50.839
<v Speaker 3>became interested in the case. Around the same time, he

525
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:55.039
<v Speaker 3>began producing a multi part series, The Search for Selene Kramer,

526
00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:00.240
<v Speaker 3>and his name came up a lot in comments on

527
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.480
<v Speaker 3>our episode. Everyone's like, you need to check out this

528
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:07.759
<v Speaker 3>guy Rob Parson who is doing a like a search

529
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 3>and recording it. I mean, I'm very familiar with his name.

530
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 3>So he called it the Search for Selene Kremer, and

531
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 3>he combined on location explorations, interviews, and reconstructions of a

532
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:26.480
<v Speaker 3>route based on Gamble's data. His videos, hosted on YouTube

533
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Speaker 3>and heavily shared via Facebook and Instagram, reached a global

534
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.759
<v Speaker 3>audience and gradually recruited an informal army of local hikers

535
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 3>and bushmen willing to volunteer in the private search efforts

536
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.480
<v Speaker 3>in the Philosopher Falls area. Throughout twenty twenty four, small

537
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.759
<v Speaker 3>groups associated with this effort returned to the bush near

538
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:50.519
<v Speaker 3>the area, scouting ridges, gullies and the Arthur River corridor

539
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 3>for any sign of gear or remains. Unfortunately, none of

540
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:59.440
<v Speaker 3>these early trips produced breakthrough, so between twenty twenty four

541
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.799
<v Speaker 3>and twenty five mid twenty twenty five, it was really

542
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:06.880
<v Speaker 3>just kind of slow progress. So by June of twenty

543
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.960
<v Speaker 3>twenty four, exactly a year after he disappearance, commentaris in

544
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.319
<v Speaker 3>outlets like The Tasmanian Times observed that Sleen's whereabouts were

545
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.640
<v Speaker 3>no closer to closure than they were a year earlier.

546
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:22.000
<v Speaker 3>They noted that Tasmania Police and SES had effectively drawn

547
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.440
<v Speaker 3>a blank and were unlikely to launch further official ground

548
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:29.240
<v Speaker 3>searches without new information, leaving most on the groundwork to

549
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:34.240
<v Speaker 3>family backed and volunteer efforts. During autumn of twenty twenty five,

550
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:38.000
<v Speaker 3>police did quietly recommence a targeted search in the area

551
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.680
<v Speaker 3>northwest of Philosopher Falls, based on updated phone paying information

552
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:46.759
<v Speaker 3>forwarded from the private investigation reports that Jess Gamble was

553
00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:52.440
<v Speaker 3>present or consulted during that operation. Even with this insider assistance,

554
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:56.160
<v Speaker 3>the searchers did not locate any conclusive evidence, no clothing, bones,

555
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.880
<v Speaker 3>or gear, so by mid twenty twenty five, Ken Gamble

556
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.960
<v Speaker 3>to me that he had letter anticipated nearly a dozen

557
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.599
<v Speaker 3>separate searches in the area, and most of them documented

558
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:11.320
<v Speaker 3>in some way by Parsons videos or referenced in Reddit

559
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.719
<v Speaker 3>discussions of people following the case.

560
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 2>So, okay, those are the people that came and let

561
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 2>let us know we need update. Yes, probably, so real quick,

562
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.519
<v Speaker 2>real quick. Here's that a good video of it. Yeah.

563
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Can you see how like, yeah, far down the forest

564
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:26.639
<v Speaker 2>floor is.

565
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:28.599
<v Speaker 3>Think how slowly you'd boom moved through that?

566
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:32.039
<v Speaker 2>So like look at this, you got to walk on that. Yeah,

567
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.239
<v Speaker 2>so if you slip and fall there, you can bust

568
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 2>your leg with a heavy pack on. Yeah, you're like,

569
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.960
<v Speaker 2>it's like the second floor of the forest. Yeah, that's gnarly.

570
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:45.079
<v Speaker 2>That's so wild that there's just people like hiking on

571
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 2>different levels. Yeah, that's weird, the next level of hiking.

572
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah nice, all right, all right, all right that training

573
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:00.320
<v Speaker 2>video for like steakhouse. Yeah, do you watch a game yesterday?

574
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.199
<v Speaker 2>All right, it's like training people how to talk in

575
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:08.159
<v Speaker 2>the buffet line that it's like for like harassment. It

576
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:11.119
<v Speaker 2>is it still hot out there? All right?

577
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:16.719
<v Speaker 3>All right, go ahead, all right, So it is December

578
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty five, we have a major shift in

579
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:23.440
<v Speaker 3>the case. At this time, Selene's friends and family, coordinated

580
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.320
<v Speaker 3>with Gamble and Parsons, organized a renewed five day search

581
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:32.159
<v Speaker 3>operation Your Philosopher False, drawing about thirty volunteers, including several

582
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.519
<v Speaker 3>of her Belgian friends who flew out.

583
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Specifically to help.

584
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 3>This privately organized search was not led by police, but

585
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.519
<v Speaker 3>police were aware of it and offered support. On December thirteenth,

586
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 3>on the hours into operation, the team made their first

587
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 3>concrete discovery since twenty twenty three. In dense scrub at

588
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.639
<v Speaker 3>a location variously described as roughly sixty meters from our

589
00:35:56.760 --> 00:36:00.280
<v Speaker 3>last known GPS coordinates and around three meters off the

590
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:04.199
<v Speaker 3>walking path. A volunteer at the back of the line,

591
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:09.639
<v Speaker 3>identified by the media's Tony Hage, spotted a purple Samsung phone.

592
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.760
<v Speaker 3>So Celia's friends immediately recognized it as her phone.

593
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.079
<v Speaker 2>So they found her phone.

594
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.039
<v Speaker 3>Can you imagine that's luck?

595
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's because like just looking at these search photos,

596
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:26.079
<v Speaker 2>we'll hear I mean, this is like a little more open.

597
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:34.519
<v Speaker 2>But that's if she walked exactly here, exactly there. Yeah. Yeah.

598
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 3>So the police quickly confirmed that the device plunged to

599
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 3>Selene and issued a media release stating that the phone

600
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.880
<v Speaker 3>would undergo forensic examination. They also announced that in light

601
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.199
<v Speaker 3>of this find, the police resources would formally join the

602
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 3>independent search effort, with trained search and rescue officers and

603
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:58.880
<v Speaker 3>SEES volunteers to be on the ground whenever weather allowed.

604
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.760
<v Speaker 3>In the days that followed, the same volunteer group located

605
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 3>additional items in the vicinity. They located a water bottle,

606
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.000
<v Speaker 3>a plastic garbage bag that appeared to have been fashioned

607
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.639
<v Speaker 3>into a makeshift poncho. Gamble described these finds in interviews,

608
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:17.079
<v Speaker 3>cautioning that it was not yet certain that the water

609
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 3>bottle was Sleens, but acknowledging it is a significant clue

610
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 3>in an area otherwise devoid of human debris. So police

611
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:28.199
<v Speaker 3>collected these items for DNA and trace analysis. In some

612
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:33.760
<v Speaker 3>media posts and Reddit threads tracking the search shared rough coordinates,

613
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.360
<v Speaker 3>photos of the dense horizontal scrub wall where the phone lay,

614
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:41.920
<v Speaker 3>and screenshots of ABC coverage. One Reddit user summarized that

615
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:45.719
<v Speaker 3>the phone had been located roughly, like I said, sixty

616
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 3>meters from her last known position, about five hundred meters

617
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:52.639
<v Speaker 3>from the waterfall and trail. The weather, unfortunately would take

618
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.119
<v Speaker 3>another turn during this search, so there was heavy rain, hail,

619
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.360
<v Speaker 3>possible snow both days, which forced the group and police

620
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:05.880
<v Speaker 3>to pause operations for several days while forensic work on

621
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:09.840
<v Speaker 3>the phone and items begin. It is now January twenty

622
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.119
<v Speaker 3>twenty six, so only a few months ago. As summer

623
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:18.159
<v Speaker 3>progressed and river level's fluctuated, volunteers continued to scour new ground,

624
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:22.679
<v Speaker 3>informed by phone day to reconstruction. One of them, a

625
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:27.119
<v Speaker 3>Bernie local, Jared Boys, had become deeply involved after watching

626
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Parsons videos in following the case online. Motivated by a

627
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.199
<v Speaker 3>desire to finally bring answers to Selene's family, he planned

628
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.239
<v Speaker 3>his own solo search along the Arthur River, downstream from

629
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:42.559
<v Speaker 3>the waterfall. On Wednesday, January twenty eighth of twenty twenty six,

630
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:47.559
<v Speaker 3>while traversing tough country several several kilometers northeast of the

631
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:51.440
<v Speaker 3>main falls area, Boys came across two bones he thought

632
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.400
<v Speaker 3>could be human. He noted their location about three kilometers

633
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.400
<v Speaker 3>northeast of a water race alignment where Selene was believed

634
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:04.400
<v Speaker 3>to have walked, and immediately contacted police. Inspector Andrew Hansen

635
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.920
<v Speaker 3>later told media that a pathologist had reviewed images of

636
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:11.000
<v Speaker 3>the bones and confirmed they were human. He stressed that

637
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:13.719
<v Speaker 3>though at these early stages there was nothing else at

638
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:17.280
<v Speaker 3>the site, no clothing, no personal items to directly indicate identity,

639
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 3>but acknowledged that the proximity to where Selene went missing

640
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.800
<v Speaker 3>made it as strong possibility the remains were hers. As

641
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 3>he put it at the press conference, police had to

642
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:31.559
<v Speaker 3>treat the remains as a separate investigation until formal identification

643
00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:35.239
<v Speaker 3>could be made, but there really was no doubt that

644
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 3>the proximity of those bones is close enough to the

645
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.760
<v Speaker 3>area where she went missing that it was very strongly

646
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:46.159
<v Speaker 3>considered to be hers. News of this discovery spread quickly

647
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:52.880
<v Speaker 3>via ABC and social media, and all across the Reddit sphere.

648
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:59.000
<v Speaker 3>People were talking about retisphere. Okay, it's now late January.

649
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.360
<v Speaker 3>Early February twenty twenty six. With discovery of the bones

650
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:06.159
<v Speaker 3>near Arthur River, police launched a fresh, tightly focused operation.

651
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.920
<v Speaker 3>On the twenty ninth and thirtieth, they winched a team

652
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:14.280
<v Speaker 3>of six specialist search and rescue officers into an isolated

653
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:18.079
<v Speaker 3>section of the Arthur River Corridor downstream from the initial

654
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:22.559
<v Speaker 3>fine site. The team conducted a line search along a

655
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.159
<v Speaker 3>three hund and fifty to five hundred meters stretch of river,

656
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.800
<v Speaker 3>moving upstream and downstream, checking banks, snags, and the riverbed

657
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:34.679
<v Speaker 3>itself for further remains and items. During this search, police

658
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.920
<v Speaker 3>located additional bones and pieces of clothing, including a polar

659
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:43.199
<v Speaker 3>fleece jacket believed to be Selenes. Commander Nathan Johnson noted

660
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:45.559
<v Speaker 3>that many of these items were found under debris or

661
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:46.800
<v Speaker 3>lodged in the riverbed.

662
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Wow, so they were like thorough, Yeah, that's so difficult.

663
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:54.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Once they had like you find a couple bones,

664
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.079
<v Speaker 3>like you and you like, ye pick up every rock

665
00:40:58.239 --> 00:40:59.639
<v Speaker 3>and sure.

666
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Still like the odds, Yeah, like finding bone in a

667
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:06.159
<v Speaker 2>river that's like got rocks and moving water.

668
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.920
<v Speaker 3>And just yeah yeah, it said, you know it was

669
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.519
<v Speaker 3>found under debris and lodged in the riverbed. It underscored

670
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 3>how easily the evidence was missed earlier in the searches,

671
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:20.440
<v Speaker 3>and at this time the train and weather remained punishing,

672
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.880
<v Speaker 3>so at one point the Star team had to camp

673
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.239
<v Speaker 3>overnight in the bush because weather prevented the helicopter from

674
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:31.159
<v Speaker 3>extracting them. And after two days without further significant discoveries,

675
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:36.960
<v Speaker 3>police announced the search. We paused while forensic analysis of

676
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 3>the newly recovered remains and clothing proceeded. It is now

677
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.760
<v Speaker 3>February tenth, twenty twenty six, so on Sunday and Mondays.

678
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:48.760
<v Speaker 3>Shortly after that pause, police resumed a very targeted search

679
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:53.519
<v Speaker 3>of the same Arthur River section, again inserting personal personnel

680
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:59.199
<v Speaker 3>by helicopter as conditions permitted. This two day operation produced

681
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:04.039
<v Speaker 3>perhaps the most conclusive non DNA evidence. They found five

682
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:08.119
<v Speaker 3>more bones, two teeth, and a Honda KHARKI.

683
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:11.559
<v Speaker 2>So, five more bones, how's that non DNA? Can you

684
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:14.039
<v Speaker 2>not get DNA from a bone? From a bone?

685
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 3>I don't, I don't think so. After it's been let's

686
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:18.679
<v Speaker 3>see what mmmm.

687
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.920
<v Speaker 2>They were in the river? Yeah, yes, you can extract

688
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.159
<v Speaker 2>DNA from the bone found the river. Because the hard

689
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.280
<v Speaker 2>mineralized structure of the bone shields genetic material. DNA could

690
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.480
<v Speaker 2>survive water submersion for months or even years, though the

691
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.599
<v Speaker 2>river environment accelerates degradation. So I bet it probably was

692
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.880
<v Speaker 2>getting beaten and worn down on box and stuff that

693
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.599
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't get any But I.

694
00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:41.880
<v Speaker 3>Mean, so they found teeth. You might be able to

695
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.320
<v Speaker 3>match down a records with teeth. Yeah, and they found

696
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:50.320
<v Speaker 3>a Honda cry So pretty conclusive.

697
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.719
<v Speaker 2>But as to say, if you can determine their human bones.

698
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Then you find stuff that's very clearly hers. Yeah, that

699
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:59.239
<v Speaker 2>is seemingly more conclusive. Yeah.

700
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 3>And Andrew Johnston told media that the car key had

701
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.320
<v Speaker 3>been formally verified as belonging to Sleen by using its

702
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:08.000
<v Speaker 3>unlocker white Hanta CRV.

703
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.159
<v Speaker 2>Very scientific. Yeah, I know right, yeah, Yeah, it's the

704
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.719
<v Speaker 2>one yeah.

705
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Which remained in police custody. He described the search along

706
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.280
<v Speaker 3>the three hundred and fifty meter river section as comprehensive

707
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:24.119
<v Speaker 3>and systematic, with many items found buried or wedged under

708
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:28.039
<v Speaker 3>a debris you know. The media and social media really

709
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:33.719
<v Speaker 3>picked up on this, and Reddit threads summarized developments. People

710
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 3>are noting other items of clothing found, including a bra,

711
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:42.599
<v Speaker 3>thermal top, polar fleece jacket had been found alongside skeletal remains.

712
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:48.199
<v Speaker 3>Private investigator Ken Gamble publicly reflected with the phone remains

713
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.599
<v Speaker 3>and key now located, investigtors could make a fairly good

714
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:52.599
<v Speaker 3>determination of what had happened.

715
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I did just ask to like close the sloop. The

716
00:43:56.079 --> 00:44:00.400
<v Speaker 2>odds of the key fob unlocking a similar car. Newer

717
00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:04.440
<v Speaker 2>models practically zero, roughly one in several billion. Older models

718
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.599
<v Speaker 2>can be anywhere from one in a million to one

719
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:10.199
<v Speaker 2>in several thousands, so it's pretty definitive that that's Hers.

720
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:13.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, this is the longest shop I wanted to actually,

721
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:14.960
<v Speaker 2>I just never thought of that though, Yeah, what are

722
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 2>the odds because of the rolling codes.

723
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:19.960
<v Speaker 3>So it's now late February. Over the following weeks, the

724
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:23.960
<v Speaker 3>recovered bones and teeth went through a multi step forensic process,

725
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:30.719
<v Speaker 3>examination by pathologists, anthropologists, tenel comparisons against records obtained from Belgium,

726
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:37.320
<v Speaker 3>and DNA analysis by Forensic Science Services of Tasmania. On

727
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:43.320
<v Speaker 3>February twenty seventh, Tasmania Police announced that, with Selene's family's permission,

728
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.400
<v Speaker 3>they were able to say that the remains found near

729
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:51.199
<v Speaker 3>Philosopher Falls and along Arthur River had been provisionally identified

730
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:55.760
<v Speaker 3>at Hers. Commander Johnson explained that expert reports that provided

731
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:59.239
<v Speaker 3>compelling evidence that the remains belonged to Slean, though the

732
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 3>former legal identification would still come via Corners report. He

733
00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:06.000
<v Speaker 3>added that in the light of this, there would be

734
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.719
<v Speaker 3>no further planned searches of the Arthur Rivers. Adjusting investigators

735
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.280
<v Speaker 3>considered the recovery phase effectively complete, so.

736
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:15.639
<v Speaker 2>They did a really good job getting all the stuff.

737
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:16.599
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty gnarly.

738
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:20.480
<v Speaker 3>So if you can, and I can added out the

739
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:23.840
<v Speaker 3>dead space in between this, but find our old episode

740
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 3>and maybe play a few minutes of our theories.

741
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, finally back in a time when you like, right here,

742
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:32.519
<v Speaker 2>my voice worked. Yes, let's see how close I am

743
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.840
<v Speaker 2>like to getting it? Show the screen. It's cool that

744
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.599
<v Speaker 2>they have the video on Spotify too, just so everyone knows.

745
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:40.480
<v Speaker 2>You can watch the video of us from Where is

746
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:44.480
<v Speaker 2>this from this Spotify web player episode eighty eight? This

747
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:49.320
<v Speaker 2>must be from Patreon? Nope, it is, Yes, subscriber is Oh, okay.

748
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:51.199
<v Speaker 2>There's things that don't make sense when you when you

749
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:53.719
<v Speaker 2>have a search like that. If you're not prepared and

750
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.039
<v Speaker 2>it's cold, you're not going to be going crazy off trail.

751
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>And even if she did, that's where you have that dog.

752
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Let's say it said the best one was recorded again

753
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:05.679
<v Speaker 2>in miles twelve miles away of sensing a cadaver. Yeah,

754
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:08.199
<v Speaker 2>this trail is less than a mile at one point

755
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 2>six miles or whatever. Yeah, so if you have a

756
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:13.760
<v Speaker 2>dog on that trail, let's let's benefit the doubt. Okay,

757
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's half as good. Yeah, should be able to

758
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.519
<v Speaker 2>pick up a cent six miles away? Maybe maybe only

759
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:22.199
<v Speaker 2>two miles away. That's a pretty big radius around that

760
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.719
<v Speaker 2>trail that if you're not prepared at that's thick as

761
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.719
<v Speaker 2>all get out. Yeah, Like I would look at that

762
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.320
<v Speaker 2>and say, she is not there. Yeah, So if she's

763
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:34.960
<v Speaker 2>not there in the car, is that means somebody removed

764
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 2>her or she got in another car with somebody else,

765
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:40.079
<v Speaker 2>or something is going on. That doesn't make sense.

766
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:42.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And there was no indication of her car like

767
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.599
<v Speaker 1>broke down and she tried to you know, hitchhike back.

768
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.840
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, very puzzling.

769
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.079
<v Speaker 1>That's why I'm leaning towards Obviously, not having the required

770
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:56.199
<v Speaker 1>gear for those conditions is a big probability of why

771
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:59.719
<v Speaker 1>she's missing. But and the thickness of the location is

772
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:02.039
<v Speaker 1>why searchers may have not a founder. Like we said,

773
00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:05.800
<v Speaker 1>she may have gotten hypothermia and then was making poor decisions.

774
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.800
<v Speaker 1>And one interesting theory too is because she's from the

775
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:13.079
<v Speaker 1>Northern Hemisphere and she's hiking in the Southern Hemisphere, she

776
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.800
<v Speaker 1>may have gotten if she's got hypothermia, now was getting confused.

777
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:21.239
<v Speaker 1>She may have gotten mixed up directionally because you're your

778
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.280
<v Speaker 1>directions are going to be different if you're hiking in

779
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the Southern hemisphere.

780
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you know, like, how so explain this? It

781
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:30.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense to me.

782
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.320
<v Speaker 3>So maybe this this is really because.

783
00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 2>The seasons are opposite. But north is still north, South

784
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:39.199
<v Speaker 2>is still south.

785
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:42.320
<v Speaker 1>I guess I don't know. I was just trying to

786
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:47.599
<v Speaker 1>think of another theory and why maybe she directionally got confused.

787
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean the sun.

788
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:54.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's all. I don't know. I'm just thinking out

789
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:58.519
<v Speaker 2>loud here. Yeah, no, no, that's fine, but I don't think. Well, no,

790
00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:01.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna question. I think you we have.

791
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:02.800
<v Speaker 3>The audio from the computer plane.

792
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:04.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why you could hear it in your ears?

793
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Could you not hear it?

794
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:06.599
<v Speaker 1>No?

795
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I could? Okay, Yeah, that's funny. You hit like the

796
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.639
<v Speaker 2>nail on the head. Like obviously they don't know exactly

797
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:15.920
<v Speaker 2>what happened, but you're but you said, oh, this arch

798
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:18.840
<v Speaker 2>just might not have found anything, and that's true. Well

799
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I was way off, Hollywood.

800
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Hey one of us has Hey, you get to go, Hollywood.

801
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>This is the most likely scenario. Now, this is the

802
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.559
<v Speaker 1>theory that police and the private investigators believe happens lost

803
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.599
<v Speaker 1>off trail death by exposure and or drowning.

804
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:46.599
<v Speaker 3>So not like super shocking. So the you know, like

805
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:50.000
<v Speaker 3>I said, this is the working theory, so what happened

806
00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:53.800
<v Speaker 3>was and this is what they believe happened. Through phone data,

807
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.480
<v Speaker 3>reconstructions and on the groundwork shows that Selene went beyond

808
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.719
<v Speaker 3>the end of the maintained philosopher false She followed an

809
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:04.679
<v Speaker 3>old water race and climbed onto a ridge above the

810
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.920
<v Speaker 3>falls instead of simply turning back on the form trail.

811
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.639
<v Speaker 3>Later analysis suggests she checked Google Maps, saw her car

812
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:15.760
<v Speaker 3>directly south and either chose to inadvertently follow a shortcut

813
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:19.800
<v Speaker 3>line rather than staying on the mark path. That line

814
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:24.400
<v Speaker 3>pushed her into dense horizontal scrub and steep untracked slopes,

815
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.119
<v Speaker 3>which we showed is terrible place to be in late

816
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:33.480
<v Speaker 3>afternoon in the winter down there, and her phone data

817
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:36.239
<v Speaker 3>does show like a shelter attempt, So the last GPS

818
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:40.679
<v Speaker 3>points and the December twenty twenty five discoveries the phone

819
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:44.239
<v Speaker 3>the makeshift pacho from a garbage bag branded water bottle

820
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:48.800
<v Speaker 3>suggests she dropped or lost the phone while forcing herself

821
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 3>through the scrub, then attempted to shelter at a natural

822
00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.199
<v Speaker 3>wind break as the rain and cold set in. From

823
00:49:56.280 --> 00:50:00.719
<v Speaker 3>that off track position, both the private and skaters and

824
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:06.039
<v Speaker 3>the police reconstruction argues she likely moved downslope drawn by

825
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:10.039
<v Speaker 3>the sound, and trained towards the water race and then

826
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.440
<v Speaker 3>the Arthur River seven mile Creeks system. Then the remains

827
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.880
<v Speaker 3>the clothing and carcaying were recovered along that three hundred

828
00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:22.239
<v Speaker 3>and fifty meters stretch of the river, plus the way

829
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:24.880
<v Speaker 3>the bones and fabric were lodged in the riverbed fit

830
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:28.280
<v Speaker 3>a scenario where she either succumbed to hypothermia near the

831
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.800
<v Speaker 3>water and was later scattered by flow, or she fell

832
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:36.960
<v Speaker 3>or was swept into the river and drowned while trying

833
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.960
<v Speaker 3>to cross it at the time. So the reason why

834
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:43.519
<v Speaker 3>they think this is the top theory is that it

835
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:47.199
<v Speaker 3>matches her known route, the GPS trail, the location of

836
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.360
<v Speaker 3>her phone, improvised gear, and the eventual location of her remains.

837
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:55.400
<v Speaker 3>It's consistent with expert medical advice from the time that

838
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.719
<v Speaker 3>they were warning that there's no way she's going to

839
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:02.159
<v Speaker 3>survive this with the gear she had, and again police

840
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.119
<v Speaker 3>and the private investigators explicitly said there was no evidence

841
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:08.679
<v Speaker 3>of foul play and that misadventure really was the cause

842
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:14.000
<v Speaker 3>of her death. Some side theories this is a variant

843
00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:18.000
<v Speaker 3>just an injury hypothermia near the river. I mean, we

844
00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Speaker 3>don't need to really go into that much. That's kind

845
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:25.360
<v Speaker 3>of the same theory. These are other minority theories.

846
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, I feel like they hit the

847
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:29.239
<v Speaker 2>nail right up. Oh yeah.

848
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:32.119
<v Speaker 3>So one of the minority theories is a fall near

849
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:36.519
<v Speaker 3>the waterfall. Some early reddit and forum comments floated the

850
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:38.800
<v Speaker 3>idea that she might have slipped well observing the falls

851
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:40.719
<v Speaker 3>fallen from the viewing areas.

852
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Is this before they recover this up? But they're saying

853
00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:44.960
<v Speaker 2>that she slipped and the falls swept her down there.

854
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's what like early theories were saying that. So

855
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.880
<v Speaker 3>they thought she maybe had fallen. So our teams repelled

856
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:55.119
<v Speaker 3>below the viewing platform and searched the waterfowl area intensely.

857
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:58.639
<v Speaker 3>In twenty twenty three, her phone and all her gear

858
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.440
<v Speaker 3>and remains were eventually found well beyond and downstream of

859
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:07.760
<v Speaker 3>the falls. So not right under Northern hemisphere internal compass theory.

860
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:10.320
<v Speaker 3>This is what I was trying to get at before.

861
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:14.760
<v Speaker 3>So a popular discussion thread idea was that being from

862
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:18.480
<v Speaker 3>the Northern Hemisphere, Sleen may have misjudged the Sun's path

863
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 3>and internal compass leading her ahead the wrong way when

864
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:26.320
<v Speaker 3>she was trying to shortcut back to her car. And

865
00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:29.599
<v Speaker 3>there is a small kernel of truth here in the

866
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.519
<v Speaker 3>sense that she likely tried to take a straight line

867
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.800
<v Speaker 3>shortcut south based on her phone map and got badly

868
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.719
<v Speaker 3>off route. But the Northern Hemisphere compass explanation is more

869
00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:44.559
<v Speaker 3>of a metaphor than a concrete cause.

870
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, but that's what I

871
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.840
<v Speaker 1>was trying to get at in the original theory. I'm

872
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:54.280
<v Speaker 1>sure I was just giving you a crap No, I mean, rightly. So, Yeah,

873
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:55.679
<v Speaker 1>just like Straddle.

874
00:52:55.320 --> 00:53:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Months, people text me when they hear that they listen

875
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:00.920
<v Speaker 2>to the show.

876
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.320
<v Speaker 1>It's like it's hilarious, Cat's unknown bingo, Yeah, oh yeah,

877
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:08.519
<v Speaker 1>smart your card and then finally foul play. They've basically

878
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.199
<v Speaker 1>completely removed that other than kind of the fringe missing

879
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:14.199
<v Speaker 1>four on one crowd.

880
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was my guess. That was way off.

881
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:20.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so what do you think I think? I mean,

882
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.000
<v Speaker 3>your theory at the time was a decent theory because

883
00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:25.960
<v Speaker 3>there was no gear and her car was still there.

884
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it makes sense because we had no

885
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 2>data or information, and then as soon as you get

886
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:36.519
<v Speaker 2>access to all the information, you start seeing everything that's possible. Yeah,

887
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:41.599
<v Speaker 2>and it becomes pretty straightforward, I guess. So, yeah, I mean,

888
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy for the family. I'm I'm just trying to

889
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.920
<v Speaker 2>make myself feel better.

890
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, oh hey, one of these times, your Hollywood

891
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:49.639
<v Speaker 1>theory will be what happens?

892
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, it's it's good that they got closure. That's

893
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:54.400
<v Speaker 2>a great way to put it. Because the people that

894
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:57.760
<v Speaker 2>we've talked to, so we do have a lot of opinions,

895
00:53:57.800 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and we don't know what goes on every case, but

896
00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:03.039
<v Speaker 2>we all so I have had the opportunity to meet

897
00:54:03.360 --> 00:54:05.360
<v Speaker 2>the real family members of some of the cases we've

898
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.559
<v Speaker 2>done with, and all of them say the same thing.

899
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:12.480
<v Speaker 2>All of them say if they're of the group that

900
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:17.039
<v Speaker 2>have found the remains. Eventually, they're very, you know, somber

901
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:20.320
<v Speaker 2>happy that they can close the door, and everyone who

902
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.920
<v Speaker 2>doesn't just is hoping that something will turn up one day. Yeah,

903
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:26.599
<v Speaker 2>and they'll know they want the closure. So it is

904
00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:29.280
<v Speaker 2>really great for her family that they can get that closure.

905
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.559
<v Speaker 2>Very sad obviously because it's going to reopen old wounds,

906
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:34.800
<v Speaker 2>but it's always a good thing when you can get

907
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the closure. And yeah, what happened. So there you go.

908
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.880
<v Speaker 2>So I think they're right. I mean, yeah, the Devil's

909
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and the details and now they have the details. So yeah,

910
00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:49.360
<v Speaker 2>thanks for tuning into our show. We appreciate all of

911
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:51.480
<v Speaker 2>you for listening and sharing locations and known with your

912
00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:53.760
<v Speaker 2>friends and family. Be sure to like and follow us

913
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:57.920
<v Speaker 2>on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, where you can watch

914
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:01.000
<v Speaker 2>videos of each episode. Also, if you'd like to support

915
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the show monetarily, please visit our website or Facebook store

916
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:06.840
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917
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:09.559
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918
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:12.239
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919
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:14.679
<v Speaker 2>customers only, and you can watch a video on Spotify

920
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.719
<v Speaker 2>if you're a Patron member. Yeah. Lastly, when enjoying the

921
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:21.360
<v Speaker 2>beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk,

922
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 2>always remember to leave no trace. Thanks and we will

923
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:26.599
<v Speaker 2>see you all next time.