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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Mike from Locations unknown. Thank you once

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again for tuning in. Just a quick note about tonight's episode.

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You may notice once you start listening that my voice

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sounds terrible. Well, I had just gotten over a pretty

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bad cold for a couple of weeks. I felt fine,

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so we decided to record an episode. But my voice,

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to put it bluntly, is terrible, and I apologize for that.

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I'm feeling really good now. My voice is probably back

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to ninety nine percent. We actually recorded another episode since

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this one, so we'll be back to normal soon. I

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hope you enjoy this episode, even with my terrible voice.

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I've done a lot of editing to try to make

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it it sound as good as possible, but there's just

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no getting around it. And it is a very interesting episode.

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We did an update on Selene Kremer. We covered the

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original case back in twenty twenty three, so there's been

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a lot of updates. Sunset happens. Hope you enjoy the episode.

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I apologize again for my awful voice, and I just

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let you know that we're going to be back to normal.

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My voice'll be back to normal and see you next time.

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Speaker 2: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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us as we dive into the deep end of the

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unexplainable and try to piece together what happened. You are

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listening to Locations Unknown. Oh what's up everybody? And welcome

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back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your co

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host Joey roddal with me as always is a guy

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who always gets his revenge. Mike vander Bogart Ah, Thank.

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Speaker 3: You, Joe, and thank you to all of our loyal

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listeners for tuning in. Apologize for my voice, got a

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little bit of a.

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Speaker 2: You should apologize for being sick. That's ridiculous. How do

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I sound terrible? Terrible?

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Speaker 3: Joe's gonna do a lot of the talking this one, so.

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Speaker 2: Nope, nope, We're gonna make it. I'm just gonna make it.

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It's gonna get way worse. So just a few.

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Speaker 3: Patreon shout outs before we get going, So thank you

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to Sarah McCoy, Ashley Estrada, Dana Tally. And that's it.

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I thought we had more. If you want to call

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the show, you can call two eight three nine one three.

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We also have some other podcasts on the network you

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can check out off the trails. Who runs this park?

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Crime off the Grid and relish. If you want to

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support the show, you can support us through Patreon, YouTube memberships,

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premium subscriptions, and Apple buy some stuff on our store.

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You can always just like and comment wherever you find

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locations unknown. It helps with the algorithms. Outside of that,

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what's been going on with you?

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Speaker 2: Joe just got back from Cozumela on a diving trip.

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It was amazing. I did not get lost in the ocean.

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That's good. Those goods on back and that's why it's

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been taking so long.

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Speaker 3: But you didn't didn't drink the water?

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Speaker 2: I did not? Well, I did at the resort. We

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had clean water, Okay, so it's perfect. Yeah, So all right, everybody,

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let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown.

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In August twenty twenty three, we covered the disappearance of

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a thirty one year old Belgian traveler who vanished after

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setting out on a short walk to Philosopher Falls in

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the dense rainforest of northwest Tasmania. What appeared to be

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a brief tourist hike quickly became a mystery shaped by

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harsh winter weather, difficult terrain, and weeks of intense search efforts. Now,

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nearly three years later, new developments have brought investigators and

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her family closer to understanding what may have happened. In

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this update episode, we revisit the case, walk through the

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latest search efforts, examine newly discovered evidence, and look at

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how phone data, volunteer searches, and the unforgiving landscape around

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Philosopher Falls have reshaped in the leading theory in Selene's disappearance.

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Join us this week as we continue the investigation into

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the mysterious disappearance of Selene Kremer.

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Speaker 3: So, we've never gotten more comments on our episode like hey,

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you know big updates in the case, were like, yeah,

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we did this episode three years ago, Like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, like everyone is aware of the updates. Like a

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lot of people, a lot of people are aware of

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this show and they're like, hey, let's go.

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Speaker 3: They're like, hey, there's these big updates, and I would

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reply back like, yeah, we know, we did this three

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years ago.

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Speaker 2: So you know what I was wondering just now, Yeah,

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I wonder how many of those people are listeners who

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knew or they just found out about the case and

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that there's updates, and then they'd like Go Keyboard Warrior,

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all the podcasts like to be important. Yeah, I don't know.

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I mean I'm not saying that's a bad thing, Like

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we get to find out either way. But I never

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thought of it that way, except I always assumed it

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was just listeners who remember every episode right and come

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back and like, oh, I knew about this, but I

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didn't realize that maybe just amongst the lost forms, when

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an update goes, everyone just runs to everywhere. It's like

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the town crier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I think for a while there, the

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case was blowing back up again and we were showing

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up in a lot of the search results.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. They're listening to the like hey,

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this is out of date, and then we come comment

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and it was just kind of funny.

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Speaker 3: People are like almost like mad at us, like hey,

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like they're like, yeah, sorry, we did this three years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I wonder what the conversion rate is

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on those people. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, we released our original episode in August of

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twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Three, so all right, a few years ago.

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Speaker 3: So we're just gonna go through a quick location climate

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profile and then we'll get into timeline love it.

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Speaker 2: So Selene disappeared in one of those spots that looks

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like a quick tourist walk on paper, but sits inside

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very serious country once you step off the built path.

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So Philosopher Falls is a short rainforest track about ten

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minutes drive south of the small mining town of Warata

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in northwest tans Mania. Ches. I'm the we had computer

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issues for like an hour and a half. We should

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be done recording right now, and it's thrown me off

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on the fridge in the Tarkien Fringe fringe of the

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Darkian near Savage River National Park. Yeah, this is going

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to be a rough one with your voice and in

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my mental acuity. The drive is a simple sealed then

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unsealed road with a small car park in a clearly

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marked trailhead leading into cool, temperate rainforest. The form walk

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is roughly one point eight miles or three kilometers return,

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with about three hundred and fifty to three hundred and

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eighty feet or one hundred and fifteen meters of elevation gain,

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and is usually graded as an easy to moderate one

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to one and a half hour outing to a fenced

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viewing platform above multi tiered waterfall. So this is a

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very tourist friendly, like kind of paved path that lots

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of people do. It's short, quick and sweet, should be

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so that tourist friendly track sits at about six hundred

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and sixty six fifty meters of elevation in a band

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of forest that gets a regular winter snow, icy rain,

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and sub zero overnight temperatures. I just never think of

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rainforest and snow in ice. I don't. So once you

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leave the form path and the safety railings, the terrain

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changes immediately steep side slopes dropping towards the creek, slick

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roots and mossy rock, tangled her horizontal scrub that forces

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you to push and crawl in a maze of old water,

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raised cuttings, and informal footpads that are not signposted, not maintained,

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and not obvious from above. The broader setting is a

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remote is remote by Tasmanian standards, but still close enough

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to a town to feel deceptively tame. Waratah is only

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about nine to ten kilometers away by road. Yet the

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bush around the falls and the Arthur River seven mile

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creek corridor is dense, dark and slow to move through,

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with limited phone reception and very few obvious landmarks, you're

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off Once you're off track, you're off track. Yeah. That

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combination a short Instagram hike quote unquote at the edge

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of serious rainforest winter conditions and a maze of unmarked

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features defines the location where Slen parked her car, walked in,

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left the trail, and ultimately vanished. So a little bit

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about the climate where she met missing is classic West

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Coast Tasmania, cool, wet, voltle with winter conditions that can

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turn deadly fast if you're lightly Equippedall sits at the

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Takana rainforest belt of northwest Tasmania, a region with a cool,

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temperate maritime climate, mild by Australian standards, but very wet,

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especially on the western slopes. Statewide, summers are comfortable, with

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winters cold and windy, with average highs in winter around

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eleven to thirteen celsius that's the low fifties on the coast,

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and colder again inland at an elevation the broader islands,

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winter maximums typically run about three to eleven degrees celsius.

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The Stanley and Tarkaine region, which covers Wartaw and the

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surrounding rainforest, gets up to two four hundred millimeters of

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rainy year, making it one of the wettest parts of

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Tasmania and keeping the rainforest lush, but trails frequently met wet,

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muddy and slippery. Up in the rainforest where the Philosopher

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Falls track runs at roughly six hundred to six hundred

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and fifty meters of elevation. That maritime pattern translates into

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frequent low cloud, regular rain and drizzle, and a lot

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of cold, damp days even outside midwinter. In winter and

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early spring, it's common to see snowfalls, icy winds, and

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overnight frosts on the higher ground, with daytime highs sometimes

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only just above freezing and the wind chill pushing perceived

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temperatures lower. Walker's trip reports talk about raining and the

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forest dripping as a normal experience, and locals warn that

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weather can pivot quickly from clear to sleet or hail,

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especially around fronts, exactly the pattern that was in place

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during the June July twenty twenty three season, when freezing temperatures,

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snow and rain triggered a bush walker's a weather alert

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for the Warataw area. I'm gonna look up what that

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is when you're talking, Okay, A bushwalker's weather alert that

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mix cold air, high rainfall, frequent wind, and rapid weather

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changes over rugged shaded terrain creates high hypothermia risks for

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anyone caught out without proper insulation, waterproofs, and shelter partiarticularly

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in June when the wet season is ramping up and

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days are short. Tell us about Selene Kremer.

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Speaker 3: Mike, Yeah, so real quick here. Her name was Selene Kremer.

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She was born June thirteenth of nineteen ninety two. Her

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last confirmed sighting was June seventeenth, twenty twenty three, when

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she was reported missing. June twenty sixth of twenty twenty three.

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Like Joe said, she was thirty one at the time

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of her disappearance. She was approximately five foot five to

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five foot seven. We don't have a reported weight, but

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she was described as average build. She had brown hair,

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brown eyes, no other widely reported distinguishing marks like tattoos

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or scars. Okay, clothing and gears she was last seen in,

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so she was believed to being dressed for a short

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light day hike, not an overnight or multi day trip.

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Reports and later Fine suggests she wore layered clothing, including

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a thermal top and a polar fleece jacket with additional

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basic Graham protection improvised from a garbage bag, and she

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carried a small pack with limited food and water and

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her phone. Personality wise, she was portrayed by family and

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friends as very adventurous and curious and optimistic, someone who

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loved nature and travel and who had saved and planned

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for a long Australian trip for years. And you know,

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she was very comfortable with independent and solo travel to

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remote areas, and this is backed up by a lot

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of her social media posts and photos. Far as medical issues,

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there was nothing publicly indicated that I have any significance,

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you know, pre existing conditions such as seizures or cardiac

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issues or any mobility issues and pretty much just a

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healthy adult. There really wasn't anything to go on for

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that occupation hobby. Back in Belgium, Selene worked in roles

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that allowed her to save and then take it extended

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travel time. Sources sometimes describe her as having an ordinary

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job rather than a professional guiding her outdoor career and

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her hobbies were travel, hiking, photography. She was actively exploring

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Tasmania at this time. Sounds like a fun, fun trip

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Joe's got some pictures over her that he's showing on

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the screen here.

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Speaker 2: Not yet. I always do that, yep, experience in the wilderness.

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Speaker 3: So Selene had enough outdoor experience to really be comfortable

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during solo hikes on mark trails and foreign countries. She

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had spent months traveling around the island visiting popular natural

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sites and appeared very confident on maintain trails. At the

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same time, though, there is no sign she was a

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specialist pushwalker as they call him out there, and evidence

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suggests she treated Philosopher Falls as a short tourist walk,

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not a serious backcountry trip. So, like we said, light clothing,

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no overnight gear, stuff like that. So her experience level

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for what she intended to do is pretty normal. I mean,

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the trail she was taking was well maintained quick, it

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was going to be in and out, so you know, nothing,

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no red flags there. So we'll jump right into timeline

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here and I will cover the timeline kind of leading

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up to our original episode, and then we'll go into

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the new theory or the new developments, and then at

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the end we're going to play our old theories. I

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love it, and then we will discuss the new theories

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00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,919
that have come about since the New Discoveries. Our timeline

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00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,799
starts early twenty twenty three, so Sleen had been living

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in Tasmania for about six months, using Hobart as a

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loose base while she explored the island. She spent that

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time hiking and sight seeing, and on February twenty second

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of twenty twenty three, she posted a photo from the

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top of Mount Wellington with the caption a Little Devil

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00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,399
in Tasmania, which was a snapshot of how much she

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had fallen in love with landscape. Her family would later

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go on to say that she had already booked her

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00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,799
next step, a fairy trip on the Spirit of Tasmania

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00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,919
to Victoria on June twenty first. Unfortunately, this was a

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booking she never made. In the months before winter, she

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became especially drawn to the temperate rainforests and old mining

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country in the northwest around Warta and the Philosopher Falls.

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She's been all over the island. It's mid June two

256
00:15:36,039 --> 00:15:39,759
thousand and three, twenty twenty three. In the days leading

257
00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:42,879
up to her disappearance, Sleen stayed in interminute touch with

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friends and family back in Belgium. Early media reports put

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her last contact somewhere between the twelfth and sixteenth of June,

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reflecting that no one initially knew the exact day she

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00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,799
stopped replying. Police later summarized that she had not been

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in contact since the twelfth, but they were clear that

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00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:05,440
the last confirmed sighting came a little later. By Saturday,

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00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:10,639
June seventeenth, she had traveled to Warataw, a small historic

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00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:16,240
mining town about nine kilometers from Flaster Falls trailhead. Multiple

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00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:20,559
police briefings and news stories now agree that this is

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00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:25,240
the last time anyone definitively remembered seeing her, with Inspector

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00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:29,240
Andrew Hansen later calling it the last confirmed sighting and

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00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:33,480
describing her as alone driving a white Honda CRV, and

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00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:36,159
at some point in that day she drove the short

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00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:40,000
unsealed road from town out to Flaster Falls car Park.

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The main track from there is a graded signposted one

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point six mile out and back walk through dense rainforest

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00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:53,000
to a waterfall viewing platform. But beyond that built path,

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like Shoe described, the country becomes very remote, steep and

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00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,960
tangled with vegetation. Easy hike if you stay on, very

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00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:03,799
difficult if you go off trail at all. So on

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00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:08,000
June seventeenth, Selene left her Honda at the car park.

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00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,880
From all intents and purposes, was a short day hike

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to the falls and back. She was, like I said earlier,

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00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:17,680
only equipped for a light outing, no overnight gear, no

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00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:22,720
heavy cold weather layers, which police emphasized this early on

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00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,200
in the search, so it was very important for them

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00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,000
to mention that it was going to be a very

285
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:32,839
light walk. For and for many months, the only solid

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00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:36,599
framework for her movements that day came from police statements

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00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:39,920
that her phone was believed to have lost signal around

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00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,039
the twentieth of June, and that she likely left the

289
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,519
car sometime in that window for a day walk. Later,

290
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,519
privately commissioned analysis of tower hits and at base GPS

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00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:55,319
lugs added more granularity to her movements, placing her leaving

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00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:59,440
the car park in mid afternoon, following the track to

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00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,279
the falls, and then continuing beyond the platform into scrubby

294
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:08,559
steep ground above the waterfall. But they treated those details

295
00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:11,640
as tentative because they didn't come from the initial police record.

296
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,640
So in those reconstructions, her phone's GPS shows positions along

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00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:20,119
a water race line and up to and up onto

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00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,440
a ridge, with a final recorded point around four eighteen pm,

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00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:28,279
as she appears to turn back off track into the rain.

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Police themselves stayed in their statements to the public very broad.

301
00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:36,279
They said they believe she left the mark trail, became

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00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:39,960
lost and confused and very dense brush, and never made

303
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,039
it back to the car before dark. What everyone could

304
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:46,279
agree on at this time was that after late afternoon

305
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:48,240
on the seventeenth, no one saw her return to the

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00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,640
car park, no further calls or messages went out, and

307
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,119
the Honda remained locked and unattended. So between June eighteenth

308
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,400
and twenty fifth, other walkers continued to use Lost or

309
00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:04,279
Falls track. When the missing person's investigation got rolling, police

310
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,480
later said they heard from several hikers who had been

311
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,119
in the area between the seventeenth and the end of

312
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,000
the month, with memories of cars in the car park

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,400
and people on the trail. One specific appeal went out

314
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:20,319
for a person on the trail around two thirty pm Sunday,

315
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,359
June eighteenth. Officers stressed this was not a suspect, just

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00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960
someone who might help fill in the timeline. The walker

317
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,039
was eventually identified and interviewed, but didn't have any anything

318
00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:37,680
that definitively pinned down Selene's movements, so then June twenty

319
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,839
first came and went without her boarding the Spirit of

320
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,759
Tasmania to Victoria. That missed fairy was a huge red

321
00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:48,279
flag for her family and friends, who had been expecting

322
00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:51,400
to hear from her as she crossed to the mainland.

323
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,920
As days passed with no messages and no sign of

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00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,559
her on the ferry manifest they escalated their concern to

325
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,559
the Tasmanian authorities. It's now June twenty sixth. It's a

326
00:20:03,559 --> 00:20:07,839
Monday of twenty twenty three. Tasmanian Police receive a formal

327
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,599
concern for welfare report from Selene's friends and family. Publicly,

328
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,759
they described a Belgian woman traveling the state in a

329
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:17,839
white Honda CRV, last seen in Hobart and believed to

330
00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:20,839
be headed toward the West coast, and asked anyone who

331
00:20:20,839 --> 00:20:23,839
had seen her or her vehicle since June twelfth to

332
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,960
contact them. The next day, June twenty seventh, officers checking

333
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,440
likely west coast locations right away found her SUV parked

334
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,759
at the car park. The vehicle was locked and unattended.

335
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,240
There was no trace of Selene in the immediate area.

336
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,440
Search and Rescue teams supported by a police drone then

337
00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:48,279
immediately began searching around the car park and along the

338
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,039
walking track, and police closed the whole area to the

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00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:55,559
public so they could work without any interference. And it

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00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:58,240
looks like Joe is showing some pictures.

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00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:01,519
Speaker 2: Of the yes search, look at all that is? Yeah,

342
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:02,680
it is gnarly.

343
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 3: That is some thick jungle.

344
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:10,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bush, the bush? Right, I had a search

345
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:11,039
and the bush.

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00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:13,519
Speaker 3: Then, Mike, I had a guy the other day delivered

347
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,200
door dash to our house that sounded like the Crocodile Hunter.

348
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,559
Speaker 2: It was pretty funny bringing in some doll dash. I

349
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:20,920
Mike I almost like.

350
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,079
Speaker 3: Asked him, like, could you record a few lines from me?

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00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: Like some dar dash lines in Australia show? Yeah, did

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00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,519
you know why?

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00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 3: I don't know?

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00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 2: Do it? Next time? I will order from the same guy.

355
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,920
I have to figure out who who is? You should

356
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,119
be able to look up your driver. Yeah, I don't remember,

357
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,680
like you know, go on your app and learn history.

358
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,319
What do you mean, of course? Do you remember what

359
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,759
you ate? What do you deliver? I was shrimp on

360
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:49,880
a ball eight right? Where was I playing? Knife? Spoony?

361
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: Knife, spooney, that's not a knife.

362
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 2: So you played naifey spoony before.

363
00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:03,079
Speaker 1: Okay, so sorry, I'm just gonna swap my section out

364
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:04,480
with like an Australian guy.

365
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, crocking. My threat's been hurt. Got a bit ill

366
00:22:09,559 --> 00:22:11,480
the other day from the little lads running around.

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00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 3: All right, It's now Wednesday, June twenty eighth. Ground teams

368
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,279
and drone and the drone unit continued to grid the

369
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:25,799
Philosopher Falls area with a police helicopter on standby. There

370
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,640
was a cold front rolling over Tasmania's west, which meant

371
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,599
conditions were already deteriorating. There was light snowfalling, a bushwalker's

372
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,559
weather alert was active, and nighttime temperatures were dropping below freezing.

373
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:46,720
By June twenty ninth, Inspector Anthea Maingey was blunt about

374
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,400
the seriousness of the situation. She laid out what had

375
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:55,039
been done ground cruise drones, planned helicopter sorties, and underline

376
00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:57,839
that no sign of Sleen had turned up since the

377
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,559
car was found. She warned that the combination of freezing temperatures,

378
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:06,559
snow and rain had created conditions not survivable for the

379
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,119
length of time that celine is thought to have been

380
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,400
exposed in the wilderness, and this was a conclusion obviously

381
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,559
backed by medical advice and based on what she was

382
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,680
wearing and packed with her she was not prepared for

383
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:24,680
conditions below freezing with snow and wind and all that stuff.

384
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,160
So at this stage police believed her car had been

385
00:23:28,279 --> 00:23:31,359
sitting in the car park since at least June twentieth,

386
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,000
and later refinements to this suggested it might have been

387
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,680
there since as early as June seventeenth, based on witness

388
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,880
reports and phone activity analysis. But throughout they hammered the

389
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,160
point that she had only packed for a light day

390
00:23:45,559 --> 00:23:46,599
when she left.

391
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,599
Speaker 2: Okay, So Bushwicker's Weather ALERTE was a specific weather alert

392
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:55,839
advised by meteorological agencies in Australia, warning hikers and campers

393
00:23:55,839 --> 00:24:01,720
of forecast conditions at post severe risk outdoor safety. That

394
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,480
like the triggers are what you'd expect, high heat, high winds, cold, wet,

395
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:08,720
stuff like that. Yeah, but best practices are saying if

396
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,680
they issue a Bushwalker's Weather Alert, like you're supposed to postpone,

397
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:14,880
cancel or completely re route your trip to avoid the

398
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,200
affected areas. They're not saying like be careful or dress appropriately.

399
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,279
They're just saying like, just don't just don't do it.

400
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:25,000
So they must only do that if it's very hazardous,

401
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,200
and if we have some listeners from down on that

402
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,240
you can let us know if that's true.

403
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,559
Speaker 3: I wonder in the US what that would be, like

404
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:37,200
a severe like a winter storm warning if they yes, but.

405
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,279
Speaker 2: They don't ever like say, hey, I guess, yeah, I guess,

406
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:42,480
Like there's probably somewhere written like if we issue this,

407
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,359
this is the record.

408
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:46,079
Speaker 3: Probably like yeah, like if they issue one for like Yoseboy,

409
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,119
maybe they add some language like change your plans.

410
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like when you were there and it was

411
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,920
on fire. Yeah, and like, hey, maybe you don't camp here. Yeah,

412
00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:57,759
it's on fire.

413
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,599
Speaker 3: There's literally ash falling from the sky.

414
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 2: Maybe. Yeah, you see how everyone's leaving their homes. Yes,

415
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:07,799
don't go into the woods either. Yeah. Okay, I guess

416
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:09,279
I could have guessed that, but I wanted to make

417
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:10,839
sure it was correct. Yeah.

418
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: So it's now Friday, June thirtieth, and the search now

419
00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:19,000
is focusing more on the waterfall and gorge itself. Search

420
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:22,839
and rescue specialists repelled from the viewing platform down towards

421
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,839
the base of Philosopher Falls, checking ledges, cliff faces, and

422
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,880
thick vegetation along the watercourse or any signs of a fall,

423
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,559
maybe a shelter or drop gear. Walking tracks stayed close

424
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,559
again to the public while they worked. It's now July first.

425
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,200
This is when Tasmanian SES teams brought in ATVs to

426
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:47,880
work forestry and access roads around the falls. They extend,

427
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,480
you know, extending the search net outwards. While detectives got

428
00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:55,160
piecing together her movements between the seventeenth and when she

429
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:59,000
was reported missing, people who'd walk there in the period

430
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,599
continued to forward with what they'd seen. On Sunday, July second,

431
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,799
Search and Rescue and SES personnel ran a track offset

432
00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:11,119
search along Butler's Road in the morning. In the afternoon,

433
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,119
the weather finally cooperated enough for the Westpac Rescue helicopter

434
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,680
to fly, giving them an aerial view of the Philosopher

435
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:22,400
Falls region that hadn't been possible in the earlier low

436
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,720
cloud and snow. All Right, so we're getting into the

437
00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:31,319
final update of our previous episode. So it is July

438
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,880
ninth and tenth of twenty twenty three. So after almost

439
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,960
two straight weeks of operations in this crazy statement snow

440
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,839
affected rainforest, Tasmanian police did a full review of the search.

441
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,720
By Sunday, July ninth, they were already signaling a wind down.

442
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:54,119
On Monday, July tenth, Commander Stuart Wilkinson formally announced that

443
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,920
the major ground and air search around Warsaw and the

444
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,799
Philosopher Falls area was being suspended. He walked through just

445
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,200
how much had been thrown at the case, police and

446
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,559
SES ground crews, specialist swift water teams, ATVs, drones, and

447
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,359
repeated helicopter missions, and acknowledged that considerable search efforts have

448
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,160
been undertaken in difficult terrain and treacherous weather conditions, but

449
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,200
unfortunately Sleen has not been located. He also made it

450
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,039
clear that, based on medical advice, she could not have

451
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,680
survived the duration and severity of the conditions she likely

452
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,000
experienced since going missing, and at the same time he

453
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:38,720
emphasized that the missing person investigation itself stayed active. The

454
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,359
message was boots were coming off the ground for now,

455
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,759
but the file was not being closed. So that's where

456
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:49,039
our old episode left off. We are now going to

457
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,079
pick up the new developments in the case since our

458
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,319
last episode. It's now late July twenty twenty three, so

459
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,519
new pieces of information later that month, which was primarily

460
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:07,680
refined phone activity analysis and possible earlier sightings over Honda

461
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:11,440
the car park were enough to justify one more targeted push.

462
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,400
On Friday July twenty eighth, Tasmanian Police called in a

463
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,880
new South Wales Police could have her dog team to

464
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,319
search a fresh area of interest around Philosopher Falls and

465
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,039
Ward Zone. Inspector Mangay said this updated phone data had

466
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:30,759
given them the tighter focus area and that police and

467
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,880
SES crews had already been through it on foot that

468
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,400
week without finding anything.

469
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: The dog team worked through.

470
00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: The weekend, but by Monday, July thirty, First Commander Wilkinson

471
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,319
had to announce that this renewed effort also ended with

472
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,079
no sign of Selene. He repeated the line that when

473
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,440
a person remains missing, the case never closes, and this

474
00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:55,720
is something that we've see all the time in cases

475
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:59,480
we cover, so now it's when it starts getting interesting.

476
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:03,759
Two twenty four is Selene's family retained Australian private guest

477
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,480
investigator can Gamble to re examine the case, believing that

478
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:11,119
further analysis of digital data and on the ground searching

479
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,640
might reveal what the twenty twenty three operations missed. With

480
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:19,599
the family's permission, Gamble obtained access to her phone and

481
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:24,319
Google account data, reconstructing app based GPS lugs and tower

482
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:29,680
connections from the day she disappeared. His analysis suggested that

483
00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:32,480
after leaving the march trail near the falls, Selene had

484
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:36,759
pushed into the section of horizontal scrub and possibly followed

485
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,359
a water race alignment away from the track before her

486
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:43,839
phone's GPS activity ceased in the afternoon.

487
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: What do you got here? So, I'm I was looking

488
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,279
at what horizontal scrub was? Yeah? Is that something that

489
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,519
I don't think we have here? And it's a tree

490
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,920
that girls? Let me pull up the I'm trying to

491
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,400
find like a video of it. Yeah, I just went

492
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,279
to like full screen some very ob naxious like legitimately

493
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:04,960
don't know how to get out of this. Facebook. There

494
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:09,279
we go, Facebook, you dummy. I'm gonna read exactly what

495
00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:13,079
it says on here. Give me an ai. It sounds

496
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:16,240
like you're asking about the vory is horizontal scrub found

497
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:19,119
in Tasmania. It gets his name because its slender trunks

498
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,960
grow vertically, topple over and fall down horizontal, creating an

499
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,000
almost impenetrable tangled mess of vegetation. That bushwalkers must traverse

500
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:31,799
sounds awful. Yeah, because it's so incredibly solid and dense,

501
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,880
Walkers often have to literally tread or walk on top

502
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,920
of this elevated layer of scrub, which can sometimes sit

503
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,519
several meters above the actual forest floor. Wow, so you're

504
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:44,279
like walking in the canopy ish type of like, yeah,

505
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:48,359
just walking high up, navigating through or falling through. The

506
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,440
tangled mess is a major hazard in Tasmania's wilderness and

507
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:54,960
is the cause of significant injury, getting disoriented and being

508
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,440
severely delayed on the trail. Here's what you need to

509
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,319
know about the infamous horizontal scrub. So basically like walking

510
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:04,079
on top of plants that can just give way, and

511
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:07,039
they said they'll get covered with moss because it's the rainforest.

512
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:09,200
So it's not only are you walking on these branches

513
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,400
that have gone other sideways. Yeah, you now have moss

514
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,480
on it, so it like blankets it. So if there

515
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:17,200
is like a hole or like a small twig that

516
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,759
you'd like crack through, it's like you're just stepping into

517
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:24,119
a hole. Sounds dangerous and sounds super dangerous. Hike. Yeah,

518
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,880
So that's gnarly. I'm glad we don't have that yeah.

519
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 3: So Campbell concluded that she had left the main path,

520
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:33,599
tried to cut back towards the car park or refuge,

521
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,839
and became very badly lost in extremely dense bush as

522
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,880
the winter rains set in, with no evidence of another

523
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:47,400
person's involvement. So also Tasmanian filmmaker and YouTuber Rob Parsons

524
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,839
became interested in the case. Around the same time, he

525
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,039
began producing a multi part series, The Search for Selene Kramer,

526
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,240
and his name came up a lot in comments on

527
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:03,480
our episode. Everyone's like, you need to check out this

528
00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:07,759
guy Rob Parson who is doing a like a search

529
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:12,039
and recording it. I mean, I'm very familiar with his name.

530
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:16,759
So he called it the Search for Selene Kremer, and

531
00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:22,359
he combined on location explorations, interviews, and reconstructions of a

532
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,480
route based on Gamble's data. His videos, hosted on YouTube

533
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,400
and heavily shared via Facebook and Instagram, reached a global

534
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,759
audience and gradually recruited an informal army of local hikers

535
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:38,240
and bushmen willing to volunteer in the private search efforts

536
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:42,480
in the Philosopher Falls area. Throughout twenty twenty four, small

537
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,759
groups associated with this effort returned to the bush near

538
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:50,519
the area, scouting ridges, gullies and the Arthur River corridor

539
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,119
for any sign of gear or remains. Unfortunately, none of

540
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:59,440
these early trips produced breakthrough, so between twenty twenty four

541
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,799
and twenty five mid twenty twenty five, it was really

542
00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:06,880
just kind of slow progress. So by June of twenty

543
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,960
twenty four, exactly a year after he disappearance, commentaris in

544
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:15,319
outlets like The Tasmanian Times observed that Sleen's whereabouts were

545
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:17,640
no closer to closure than they were a year earlier.

546
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:22,000
They noted that Tasmania Police and SES had effectively drawn

547
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,440
a blank and were unlikely to launch further official ground

548
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:29,240
searches without new information, leaving most on the groundwork to

549
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:34,240
family backed and volunteer efforts. During autumn of twenty twenty five,

550
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:38,000
police did quietly recommence a targeted search in the area

551
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,680
northwest of Philosopher Falls, based on updated phone paying information

552
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:46,759
forwarded from the private investigation reports that Jess Gamble was

553
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:52,440
present or consulted during that operation. Even with this insider assistance,

554
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:56,160
the searchers did not locate any conclusive evidence, no clothing, bones,

555
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:59,880
or gear, so by mid twenty twenty five, Ken Gamble

556
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,960
to me that he had letter anticipated nearly a dozen

557
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:07,599
separate searches in the area, and most of them documented

558
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:11,320
in some way by Parsons videos or referenced in Reddit

559
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,719
discussions of people following the case.

560
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,679
Speaker 2: So, okay, those are the people that came and let

561
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,880
let us know we need update. Yes, probably, so real quick,

562
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:23,519
real quick. Here's that a good video of it. Yeah.

563
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:26,199
Can you see how like, yeah, far down the forest

564
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:26,639
floor is.

565
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,599
Speaker 3: Think how slowly you'd boom moved through that?

566
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,039
Speaker 2: So like look at this, you got to walk on that. Yeah,

567
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,239
so if you slip and fall there, you can bust

568
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,400
your leg with a heavy pack on. Yeah, you're like,

569
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,960
it's like the second floor of the forest. Yeah, that's gnarly.

570
00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:45,079
That's so wild that there's just people like hiking on

571
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:49,119
different levels. Yeah, that's weird, the next level of hiking.

572
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:56,159
Yeah nice, all right, all right, all right that training

573
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,320
video for like steakhouse. Yeah, do you watch a game yesterday?

574
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,199
All right, it's like training people how to talk in

575
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,159
the buffet line that it's like for like harassment. It

576
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,119
is it still hot out there? All right?

577
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 3: All right, go ahead, all right, So it is December

578
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,559
of twenty twenty five, we have a major shift in

579
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:23,440
the case. At this time, Selene's friends and family, coordinated

580
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,320
with Gamble and Parsons, organized a renewed five day search

581
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,159
operation Your Philosopher False, drawing about thirty volunteers, including several

582
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,519
of her Belgian friends who flew out.

583
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: Specifically to help.

584
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: This privately organized search was not led by police, but

585
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:43,519
police were aware of it and offered support. On December thirteenth,

586
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,039
on the hours into operation, the team made their first

587
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:51,960
concrete discovery since twenty twenty three. In dense scrub at

588
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,639
a location variously described as roughly sixty meters from our

589
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,280
last known GPS coordinates and around three meters off the

590
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,199
walking path. A volunteer at the back of the line,

591
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,639
identified by the media's Tony Hage, spotted a purple Samsung phone.

592
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:13,760
So Celia's friends immediately recognized it as her phone.

593
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,079
Speaker 2: So they found her phone.

594
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,039
Speaker 3: Can you imagine that's luck?

595
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because like just looking at these search photos,

596
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,079
we'll hear I mean, this is like a little more open.

597
00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:34,519
But that's if she walked exactly here, exactly there. Yeah. Yeah.

598
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:38,039
Speaker 3: So the police quickly confirmed that the device plunged to

599
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:42,239
Selene and issued a media release stating that the phone

600
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,880
would undergo forensic examination. They also announced that in light

601
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,199
of this find, the police resources would formally join the

602
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,159
independent search effort, with trained search and rescue officers and

603
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,880
SEES volunteers to be on the ground whenever weather allowed.

604
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,760
In the days that followed, the same volunteer group located

605
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,960
additional items in the vicinity. They located a water bottle,

606
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,000
a plastic garbage bag that appeared to have been fashioned

607
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:13,639
into a makeshift poncho. Gamble described these finds in interviews,

608
00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:17,079
cautioning that it was not yet certain that the water

609
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:20,639
bottle was Sleens, but acknowledging it is a significant clue

610
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:24,480
in an area otherwise devoid of human debris. So police

611
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,199
collected these items for DNA and trace analysis. In some

612
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,760
media posts and Reddit threads tracking the search shared rough coordinates,

613
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,360
photos of the dense horizontal scrub wall where the phone lay,

614
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:41,920
and screenshots of ABC coverage. One Reddit user summarized that

615
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,719
the phone had been located roughly, like I said, sixty

616
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,800
meters from her last known position, about five hundred meters

617
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,639
from the waterfall and trail. The weather, unfortunately would take

618
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,119
another turn during this search, so there was heavy rain, hail,

619
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,360
possible snow both days, which forced the group and police

620
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,880
to pause operations for several days while forensic work on

621
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,840
the phone and items begin. It is now January twenty

622
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,119
twenty six, so only a few months ago. As summer

623
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:18,159
progressed and river level's fluctuated, volunteers continued to scour new ground,

624
00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:22,679
informed by phone day to reconstruction. One of them, a

625
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:27,119
Bernie local, Jared Boys, had become deeply involved after watching

626
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:30,760
Parsons videos in following the case online. Motivated by a

627
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,199
desire to finally bring answers to Selene's family, he planned

628
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:38,239
his own solo search along the Arthur River, downstream from

629
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,559
the waterfall. On Wednesday, January twenty eighth of twenty twenty six,

630
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:47,559
while traversing tough country several several kilometers northeast of the

631
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:51,440
main falls area, Boys came across two bones he thought

632
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,400
could be human. He noted their location about three kilometers

633
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,400
northeast of a water race alignment where Selene was believed

634
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,400
to have walked, and immediately contacted police. Inspector Andrew Hansen

635
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,920
later told media that a pathologist had reviewed images of

636
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,000
the bones and confirmed they were human. He stressed that

637
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:13,719
though at these early stages there was nothing else at

638
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,280
the site, no clothing, no personal items to directly indicate identity,

639
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,400
but acknowledged that the proximity to where Selene went missing

640
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,800
made it as strong possibility the remains were hers. As

641
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,880
he put it at the press conference, police had to

642
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,559
treat the remains as a separate investigation until formal identification

643
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,239
could be made, but there really was no doubt that

644
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,239
the proximity of those bones is close enough to the

645
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,760
area where she went missing that it was very strongly

646
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,159
considered to be hers. News of this discovery spread quickly

647
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:52,880
via ABC and social media, and all across the Reddit sphere.

648
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:59,000
People were talking about retisphere. Okay, it's now late January.

649
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,360
Early February twenty twenty six. With discovery of the bones

650
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,159
near Arthur River, police launched a fresh, tightly focused operation.

651
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,920
On the twenty ninth and thirtieth, they winched a team

652
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,280
of six specialist search and rescue officers into an isolated

653
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,079
section of the Arthur River Corridor downstream from the initial

654
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:22,559
fine site. The team conducted a line search along a

655
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,159
three hund and fifty to five hundred meters stretch of river,

656
00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:29,800
moving upstream and downstream, checking banks, snags, and the riverbed

657
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,679
itself for further remains and items. During this search, police

658
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,920
located additional bones and pieces of clothing, including a polar

659
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,199
fleece jacket believed to be Selenes. Commander Nathan Johnson noted

660
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,559
that many of these items were found under debris or

661
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:46,800
lodged in the riverbed.

662
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:51,159
Speaker 2: Wow, so they were like thorough, Yeah, that's so difficult.

663
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. Once they had like you find a couple bones,

664
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:58,079
like you and you like, ye pick up every rock

665
00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:59,639
and sure.

666
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:03,519
Speaker 2: Still like the odds, Yeah, like finding bone in a

667
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:06,159
river that's like got rocks and moving water.

668
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 3: And just yeah yeah, it said, you know it was

669
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,519
found under debris and lodged in the riverbed. It underscored

670
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,159
how easily the evidence was missed earlier in the searches,

671
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,440
and at this time the train and weather remained punishing,

672
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:22,880
so at one point the Star team had to camp

673
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,239
overnight in the bush because weather prevented the helicopter from

674
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:31,159
extracting them. And after two days without further significant discoveries,

675
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,960
police announced the search. We paused while forensic analysis of

676
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:40,880
the newly recovered remains and clothing proceeded. It is now

677
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,760
February tenth, twenty twenty six, so on Sunday and Mondays.

678
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,760
Shortly after that pause, police resumed a very targeted search

679
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,519
of the same Arthur River section, again inserting personal personnel

680
00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:59,199
by helicopter as conditions permitted. This two day operation produced

681
00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:04,039
perhaps the most conclusive non DNA evidence. They found five

682
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:08,119
more bones, two teeth, and a Honda KHARKI.

683
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:11,559
Speaker 2: So, five more bones, how's that non DNA? Can you

684
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:14,039
not get DNA from a bone? From a bone?

685
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,199
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't think so. After it's been let's

686
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:18,679
see what mmmm.

687
00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 2: They were in the river? Yeah, yes, you can extract

688
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,159
DNA from the bone found the river. Because the hard

689
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,280
mineralized structure of the bone shields genetic material. DNA could

690
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,480
survive water submersion for months or even years, though the

691
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:35,599
river environment accelerates degradation. So I bet it probably was

692
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:37,880
getting beaten and worn down on box and stuff that

693
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,599
they couldn't get any But I.

694
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 3: Mean, so they found teeth. You might be able to

695
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:45,320
match down a records with teeth. Yeah, and they found

696
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:50,320
a Honda cry So pretty conclusive.

697
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: But as to say, if you can determine their human bones.

698
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,000
Then you find stuff that's very clearly hers. Yeah, that

699
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,239
is seemingly more conclusive. Yeah.

700
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,599
Speaker 3: And Andrew Johnston told media that the car key had

701
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:06,320
been formally verified as belonging to Sleen by using its

702
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,000
unlocker white Hanta CRV.

703
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,159
Speaker 2: Very scientific. Yeah, I know right, yeah, Yeah, it's the

704
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,719
one yeah.

705
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 3: Which remained in police custody. He described the search along

706
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,280
the three hundred and fifty meter river section as comprehensive

707
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,119
and systematic, with many items found buried or wedged under

708
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:28,039
a debris you know. The media and social media really

709
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:33,719
picked up on this, and Reddit threads summarized developments. People

710
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,360
are noting other items of clothing found, including a bra,

711
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:42,599
thermal top, polar fleece jacket had been found alongside skeletal remains.

712
00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:48,199
Private investigator Ken Gamble publicly reflected with the phone remains

713
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,599
and key now located, investigtors could make a fairly good

714
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:52,599
determination of what had happened.

715
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: I did just ask to like close the sloop. The

716
00:43:56,079 --> 00:44:00,400
odds of the key fob unlocking a similar car. Newer

717
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,440
models practically zero, roughly one in several billion. Older models

718
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,599
can be anywhere from one in a million to one

719
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:10,199
in several thousands, so it's pretty definitive that that's Hers.

720
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,159
I'm like, this is the longest shop I wanted to actually,

721
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:14,960
I just never thought of that though, Yeah, what are

722
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,599
the odds because of the rolling codes.

723
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: So it's now late February. Over the following weeks, the

724
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,960
recovered bones and teeth went through a multi step forensic process,

725
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:30,719
examination by pathologists, anthropologists, tenel comparisons against records obtained from Belgium,

726
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:37,320
and DNA analysis by Forensic Science Services of Tasmania. On

727
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:43,320
February twenty seventh, Tasmania Police announced that, with Selene's family's permission,

728
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,400
they were able to say that the remains found near

729
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,199
Philosopher Falls and along Arthur River had been provisionally identified

730
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,760
at Hers. Commander Johnson explained that expert reports that provided

731
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,239
compelling evidence that the remains belonged to Slean, though the

732
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,039
former legal identification would still come via Corners report. He

733
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:06,000
added that in the light of this, there would be

734
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,719
no further planned searches of the Arthur Rivers. Adjusting investigators

735
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,280
considered the recovery phase effectively complete, so.

736
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,639
Speaker 2: They did a really good job getting all the stuff.

737
00:45:15,679 --> 00:45:16,599
That's pretty gnarly.

738
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: So if you can, and I can added out the

739
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:23,840
dead space in between this, but find our old episode

740
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,159
and maybe play a few minutes of our theories.

741
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,639
Speaker 2: Okay, finally back in a time when you like, right here,

742
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,519
my voice worked. Yes, let's see how close I am

743
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:35,840
like to getting it? Show the screen. It's cool that

744
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,599
they have the video on Spotify too, just so everyone knows.

745
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:40,480
You can watch the video of us from Where is

746
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:44,480
this from this Spotify web player episode eighty eight? This

747
00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:49,320
must be from Patreon? Nope, it is, Yes, subscriber is Oh, okay.

748
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,199
There's things that don't make sense when you when you

749
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,719
have a search like that. If you're not prepared and

750
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,039
it's cold, you're not going to be going crazy off trail.

751
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:58,960
And even if she did, that's where you have that dog.

752
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:02,519
Let's say it said the best one was recorded again

753
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,679
in miles twelve miles away of sensing a cadaver. Yeah,

754
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,199
this trail is less than a mile at one point

755
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,519
six miles or whatever. Yeah, so if you have a

756
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:13,760
dog on that trail, let's let's benefit the doubt. Okay,

757
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,519
maybe it's half as good. Yeah, should be able to

758
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:19,519
pick up a cent six miles away? Maybe maybe only

759
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:22,199
two miles away. That's a pretty big radius around that

760
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,719
trail that if you're not prepared at that's thick as

761
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,719
all get out. Yeah, Like I would look at that

762
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,320
and say, she is not there. Yeah, So if she's

763
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,960
not there in the car, is that means somebody removed

764
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,599
her or she got in another car with somebody else,

765
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,079
or something is going on. That doesn't make sense.

766
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there was no indication of her car like

767
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:44,599
broke down and she tried to you know, hitchhike back.

768
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, very puzzling.

769
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,079
Speaker 1: That's why I'm leaning towards Obviously, not having the required

770
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:56,199
gear for those conditions is a big probability of why

771
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,719
she's missing. But and the thickness of the location is

772
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,039
why searchers may have not a founder. Like we said,

773
00:47:02,039 --> 00:47:05,800
she may have gotten hypothermia and then was making poor decisions.

774
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:09,800
And one interesting theory too is because she's from the

775
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,079
Northern Hemisphere and she's hiking in the Southern Hemisphere, she

776
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:16,800
may have gotten if she's got hypothermia, now was getting confused.

777
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,239
She may have gotten mixed up directionally because you're your

778
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,280
directions are going to be different if you're hiking in

779
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,400
the Southern hemisphere.

780
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:30,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, like, how so explain this? It

781
00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:30,840
doesn't make sense to me.

782
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 3: So maybe this this is really because.

783
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: The seasons are opposite. But north is still north, South

784
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:39,199
is still south.

785
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. I was just trying to

786
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:47,599
think of another theory and why maybe she directionally got confused.

787
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:48,400
I mean the sun.

788
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:54,199
Speaker 2: Yeah that's all. I don't know. I'm just thinking out

789
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,519
loud here. Yeah, no, no, that's fine, but I don't think. Well, no,

790
00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:01,159
I'm just gonna question. I think you we have.

791
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 3: The audio from the computer plane.

792
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why you could hear it in your ears?

793
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:06,320
Could you not hear it?

794
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:06,599
Speaker 1: No?

795
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: I could? Okay, Yeah, that's funny. You hit like the

796
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,639
nail on the head. Like obviously they don't know exactly

797
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,920
what happened, but you're but you said, oh, this arch

798
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,840
just might not have found anything, and that's true. Well

799
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:24,000
I was way off, Hollywood.

800
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: Hey one of us has Hey, you get to go, Hollywood.

801
00:48:27,519 --> 00:48:32,000
This is the most likely scenario. Now, this is the

802
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,559
theory that police and the private investigators believe happens lost

803
00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:39,599
off trail death by exposure and or drowning.

804
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:46,599
Speaker 3: So not like super shocking. So the you know, like

805
00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:50,000
I said, this is the working theory, so what happened

806
00:48:50,119 --> 00:48:53,800
was and this is what they believe happened. Through phone data,

807
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,480
reconstructions and on the groundwork shows that Selene went beyond

808
00:48:57,599 --> 00:49:01,719
the end of the maintained philosopher false She followed an

809
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,679
old water race and climbed onto a ridge above the

810
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,920
falls instead of simply turning back on the form trail.

811
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,639
Later analysis suggests she checked Google Maps, saw her car

812
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,760
directly south and either chose to inadvertently follow a shortcut

813
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,800
line rather than staying on the mark path. That line

814
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:24,400
pushed her into dense horizontal scrub and steep untracked slopes,

815
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,119
which we showed is terrible place to be in late

816
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:33,480
afternoon in the winter down there, and her phone data

817
00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:36,239
does show like a shelter attempt, So the last GPS

818
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,679
points and the December twenty twenty five discoveries the phone

819
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,239
the makeshift pacho from a garbage bag branded water bottle

820
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,800
suggests she dropped or lost the phone while forcing herself

821
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,000
through the scrub, then attempted to shelter at a natural

822
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,199
wind break as the rain and cold set in. From

823
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,719
that off track position, both the private and skaters and

824
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:06,039
the police reconstruction argues she likely moved downslope drawn by

825
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,039
the sound, and trained towards the water race and then

826
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:15,440
the Arthur River seven mile Creeks system. Then the remains

827
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,880
the clothing and carcaying were recovered along that three hundred

828
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,239
and fifty meters stretch of the river, plus the way

829
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,880
the bones and fabric were lodged in the riverbed fit

830
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,280
a scenario where she either succumbed to hypothermia near the

831
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,800
water and was later scattered by flow, or she fell

832
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,960
or was swept into the river and drowned while trying

833
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,960
to cross it at the time. So the reason why

834
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,519
they think this is the top theory is that it

835
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:47,199
matches her known route, the GPS trail, the location of

836
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:51,360
her phone, improvised gear, and the eventual location of her remains.

837
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:55,400
It's consistent with expert medical advice from the time that

838
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,719
they were warning that there's no way she's going to

839
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,159
survive this with the gear she had, and again police

840
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,119
and the private investigators explicitly said there was no evidence

841
00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:08,679
of foul play and that misadventure really was the cause

842
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:14,000
of her death. Some side theories this is a variant

843
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:18,000
just an injury hypothermia near the river. I mean, we

844
00:51:18,039 --> 00:51:21,400
don't need to really go into that much. That's kind

845
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,360
of the same theory. These are other minority theories.

846
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I feel like they hit the

847
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,239
nail right up. Oh yeah.

848
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:32,119
Speaker 3: So one of the minority theories is a fall near

849
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:36,519
the waterfall. Some early reddit and forum comments floated the

850
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:38,800
idea that she might have slipped well observing the falls

851
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,719
fallen from the viewing areas.

852
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,599
Speaker 2: Is this before they recover this up? But they're saying

853
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:44,960
that she slipped and the falls swept her down there.

854
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:47,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what like early theories were saying that. So

855
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,880
they thought she maybe had fallen. So our teams repelled

856
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,119
below the viewing platform and searched the waterfowl area intensely.

857
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,639
In twenty twenty three, her phone and all her gear

858
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:01,440
and remains were eventually found well beyond and downstream of

859
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,760
the falls. So not right under Northern hemisphere internal compass theory.

860
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,320
This is what I was trying to get at before.

861
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:14,760
So a popular discussion thread idea was that being from

862
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,480
the Northern Hemisphere, Sleen may have misjudged the Sun's path

863
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,639
and internal compass leading her ahead the wrong way when

864
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:26,320
she was trying to shortcut back to her car. And

865
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:29,599
there is a small kernel of truth here in the

866
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:32,519
sense that she likely tried to take a straight line

867
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:36,800
shortcut south based on her phone map and got badly

868
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,719
off route. But the Northern Hemisphere compass explanation is more

869
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,559
of a metaphor than a concrete cause.

870
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, but that's what I

871
00:52:48,159 --> 00:52:50,840
was trying to get at in the original theory. I'm

872
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,280
sure I was just giving you a crap No, I mean, rightly. So, Yeah,

873
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:55,679
just like Straddle.

874
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: Months, people text me when they hear that they listen

875
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:00,920
to the show.

876
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: It's like it's hilarious, Cat's unknown bingo, Yeah, oh yeah,

877
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,519
smart your card and then finally foul play. They've basically

878
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:13,199
completely removed that other than kind of the fringe missing

879
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:14,199
four on one crowd.

880
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my guess. That was way off.

881
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what do you think I think? I mean,

882
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,000
your theory at the time was a decent theory because

883
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:25,960
there was no gear and her car was still there.

884
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it makes sense because we had no

885
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,320
data or information, and then as soon as you get

886
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,519
access to all the information, you start seeing everything that's possible. Yeah,

887
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:41,599
and it becomes pretty straightforward, I guess. So, yeah, I mean,

888
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:43,920
I'm happy for the family. I'm I'm just trying to

889
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:44,920
make myself feel better.

890
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,519
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh hey, one of these times, your Hollywood

891
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:49,639
theory will be what happens?

892
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's it's good that they got closure. That's

893
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,400
a great way to put it. Because the people that

894
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,760
we've talked to, so we do have a lot of opinions,

895
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,440
and we don't know what goes on every case, but

896
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:03,039
we all so I have had the opportunity to meet

897
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,360
the real family members of some of the cases we've

898
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,559
done with, and all of them say the same thing.

899
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,480
All of them say if they're of the group that

900
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:17,039
have found the remains. Eventually, they're very, you know, somber

901
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,320
happy that they can close the door, and everyone who

902
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,920
doesn't just is hoping that something will turn up one day. Yeah,

903
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,599
and they'll know they want the closure. So it is

904
00:54:26,679 --> 00:54:29,280
really great for her family that they can get that closure.

905
00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:32,559
Very sad obviously because it's going to reopen old wounds,

906
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,800
but it's always a good thing when you can get

907
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,840
the closure. And yeah, what happened. So there you go.

908
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,880
So I think they're right. I mean, yeah, the Devil's

909
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,960
and the details and now they have the details. So yeah,

910
00:54:47,039 --> 00:54:49,360
thanks for tuning into our show. We appreciate all of

911
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,480
you for listening and sharing locations and known with your

912
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:53,760
friends and family. Be sure to like and follow us

913
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,920
on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, where you can watch

914
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,000
videos of each episode. Also, if you'd like to support

915
00:55:01,039 --> 00:55:03,960
the show monetarily, please visit our website or Facebook store

916
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,840
to buy some Sweet Sweet swag, and you can subscribe

917
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,559
to your Patron account and YouTube as well as Apple

918
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:12,239
to have access to special events, additional shows for paid

919
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,679
customers only, and you can watch a video on Spotify

920
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,719
if you're a Patron member. Yeah. Lastly, when enjoying the

921
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,360
beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk,

922
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,119
always remember to leave no trace. Thanks and we will

923
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:26,599
see you all next time.