Speaker 1: And this is Michael Rosenbaum Alex Luthor, and you're listening
Speaker 1: to Always hold On to Smallville.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast,
Speaker 2: we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Speaker 2: Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
Speaker 2: twenty eleven on the WB and the C. I'm our
Speaker 2: host Sachmore, and we're back with our next installment in
Speaker 2: the top ten episodes. That's right, the top ten episodes
Speaker 2: of Smallville as voted by you the listeners. Now we
Speaker 2: are here to talk about the number ten entry Lexmis. Yes,
Speaker 2: Smallville did one and a half Christmas episodes and this
Speaker 2: is an episode that I missed in first run, so
Speaker 2: it didn't hold the special nostalgic place in my heart
Speaker 2: that it did for a lot of our listeners. And
Speaker 2: we'll see if it hold that same nostalgic place in
Speaker 2: the hearts of a lot of our panels as well.
Speaker 2: And again I am joined by Lance Laster from Always
Speaker 2: On Onto Aero, Victoria Malay, and in addition to them,
Speaker 2: Matt Schrux from Lewis and Clark, the New podcast of Superman,
Speaker 2: and many of our podcasts here on the Always Along
Speaker 2: two network, and also Matthew broke up and they didn't
Speaker 2: have the chance to read off their top ten lists
Speaker 2: like Lance Victoria and I did in the Honorable Mentions episode,
Speaker 2: So I will read it off now. Matt Triix is
Speaker 2: top ten, is This number ten, x Ray number nine,
Speaker 2: Perry number eight, Absolute Justice number seven, Vortex number six,
Speaker 2: Infamous number five, Tempest number four, Calling number three, Asylum
Speaker 2: number two, Insurgents, and number one Memoria. Matthew Roke is
Speaker 2: top ten in no particular order, so keep that in mind.
Speaker 2: He gave me the ten episodes that he said no
Speaker 2: particular order, but you know, I think subconsciously his order
Speaker 2: might tell us something. So his top ten or This
Speaker 2: number ten, Finale number nine, Justice number eight, Mercy number seven,
Speaker 2: Commencement number six, Covenant number five, Shattered number four, Onyx
Speaker 2: number three, Pilot number two, Memoria, and number one Lexmis.
Speaker 2: So there you have it. Now, this is gonna be
Speaker 2: our our standard panel for our top ten episodes discussion.
Speaker 2: Due to scheduling conflicts here and there in availability, we
Speaker 2: might have one or two people not being able to
Speaker 2: join in the conversation, but the five of us, myself, Lancelaster, Victoria, Malay,
Speaker 2: Matt Trux, and Matthew Rocca will be your guides through
Speaker 2: these top ten episodes. And something else I thought would
Speaker 2: be fun before we jump into our conversation here with
Speaker 2: our panel is look back on what grades we gave
Speaker 2: these episodes on the podcast. So if you look back
Speaker 2: at Lexmus, that was myself and Cavante Chillis and I
Speaker 2: gave lexmiths at A and Cavante gave Lexmis an A. So,
Speaker 2: as always, my opinions, your opinions maybe are always in flux. Right,
Speaker 2: Episodes that you didn't care much for didn't really give
Speaker 2: a lot of time to when you sit down and
Speaker 2: really examine them and talk about them, might really win
Speaker 2: you over, or you might find them more disappointed than
Speaker 2: you remember. So even though it didn't make my top
Speaker 2: ten list, I did it up ranking it high in
Speaker 2: our episode coverage. So, without further ado, let's discuss the
Speaker 2: number ten episode of Smallville, Lexmis It's Good to Be
Speaker 2: the King on the WB Thursday, The Life Lex No's
Speaker 2: disappears in a flash.
Speaker 3: Huh my dad, No, this is your life?
Speaker 4: So Lex Luthor the finest man I know.
Speaker 5: I've never been happier all.
Speaker 6: This can be yours if you make the right choices.
Speaker 5: What happened?
Speaker 7: Lexmuths a small Ville Christmas?
Speaker 6: Followed by Everwood on the WB Thursday.
Speaker 2: We're talking about Lexmis. Lexmis is not on my top
Speaker 2: ten list? Lance, Is Lexmis on your top ten list?
Speaker 5: It was not?
Speaker 2: Okay, Victoria, is Lexmus on your top ten list?
Speaker 3: That's a note for me, dog Matt Truix.
Speaker 2: Is Lexmis on your top ten list?
Speaker 5: No, it was not.
Speaker 2: Broca, is it on your top Apparently.
Speaker 6: I'm the only one, and I was all excited. I
Speaker 6: was like, this is a lot everyone's top ten every
Speaker 6: loves Lexsmith.
Speaker 4: I'm also looking at my list right now and realizing
Speaker 4: I might have been in a certain state of mind.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of topics that are very interesting
Speaker 2: I think that are worth discussing, like the existence of
Speaker 2: Santa Claus and the small of the universe. Apparently that's
Speaker 2: canon Santa exists.
Speaker 4: That's interesting that I have a lot to say about that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm in favor. Okay, cool, let's go.
Speaker 2: So Lexmith, it's not on my list? This is actually one.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the VCR messed up that night
Speaker 2: Lance and I were living in college together in the dorms.
Speaker 2: I don't think I recorded this one. Maybe I was
Speaker 2: out doing something. I didn't see it until they came
Speaker 2: out on DVD.
Speaker 4: Are you like Home for Christmas?
Speaker 5: Wait?
Speaker 2: You know that might have been it. That is an
Speaker 2: excellent point, Matt, But I didn't see this one until
Speaker 2: they came out on DVD. I saw all the stuff online, like, look,
Speaker 2: it's Cooly with long hair, and Clark with a scarf
Speaker 2: and Jonathan with glasses and lot is pregnant. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: what is this?
Speaker 3: Those are my key takeaways from the episode as well.
Speaker 4: Jonathan's hair as well. Jonathan's hair looks like bo Duke era.
Speaker 2: He looks incredible, Yes, season five. John Schneider on point,
Speaker 2: all right, Yeah, maybe that's why this one never really
Speaker 2: stuck with me. But it's one of those And being
Speaker 2: a big Star Trek fan, I kind of thought about
Speaker 2: this as well. If you look at like everybody started
Speaker 2: Star Trek episodes, there are always these alternate universe time
Speaker 2: travel kind of what if stuff, stuff you don't get
Speaker 2: to see in the show proper. And I think that's
Speaker 2: why a lot of people gravitate towards this, because it's
Speaker 2: like oh Man, and that these cool what ifs, and
Speaker 2: that happens a lot in Small Phille. As we all
Speaker 2: know these cool wedding scenarios that wouldn't happen normally on
Speaker 2: the show, Lex and Clark are still friends in the future.
Speaker 2: Everybody seems pretty happy, I mean up until you know
Speaker 2: some strategy happens. They had a good seven year run,
Speaker 2: so I think that's why people really like it. And
Speaker 2: also it is a big step on Lex's journey to
Speaker 2: the dark side. So Lance, what are your thoughts in
Speaker 2: brief about lexmis.
Speaker 5: Well, I do love the episode. It was not on
Speaker 5: my list, but it was an honorable mention, so I
Speaker 5: gave it some credit. But I think you're kind of
Speaker 5: missing the bigger issue with the episode, and it's it's
Speaker 5: a Christmas episode. Everybody loves Christmas specials, so and especially me,
Speaker 5: I'm a sucker for Christmas specials of any kind. So
Speaker 5: that's why I was really really digging in this episode.
Speaker 5: You got to see a different side of Lex. You
Speaker 5: get to see his intermost desire, and you could see
Speaker 5: his innermost desire is to be happy. It's not like
Speaker 5: the other stuff that he ends up doing, which and
Speaker 5: that's again, that makes him so tragic in this show,
Speaker 5: is like, you see what he actually wants, what he
Speaker 5: actually what would actually fulfill him is a family that
Speaker 5: loves him and his friends that love him and surrounded
Speaker 5: by love in his life. That's all he wants. And
Speaker 5: then it's just so tracticed to see that that's a
Speaker 5: not what he gets and be what he chooses to
Speaker 5: not want anymore.
Speaker 2: Great Victoria, what do you think about Lexmis Why is
Speaker 2: it one of your favorite episodes or is.
Speaker 3: It it's it's not. I'm just gonna be real with y'all.
Speaker 3: I detest Lexana.
Speaker 4: Yes, even fantasy Lexana.
Speaker 7: Fantasy Lexana, and I'm going to tell you why, and
Speaker 7: I'm going to bring down the mood for a minute.
Speaker 7: But I had a major death of my family on
Speaker 7: Christmas Eve, so I like, I can kind of relate.
Speaker 7: So it was kind of like, oh, because I hadn't
Speaker 7: seen the episode since I watched it in like two
Speaker 7: thousand and five, I did watch this one, Zach. You
Speaker 7: might have missed it, but I remember watching it and
Speaker 7: being like.
Speaker 3: What is going on?
Speaker 5: But it was really.
Speaker 7: Interesting revisiting it and being able to empathize with lex
Speaker 7: in a different way, because like if it's like I
Speaker 7: could put myself in the what if, like if I
Speaker 7: was able, and it made me feel for him, like yeah,
Speaker 7: if I'd known that I was going to lose someone
Speaker 7: like this, And at tragerway on Christmas Eve, I really
Speaker 7: understood his choice of being like, uh no, if fat,
Speaker 7: I'm not going to make these choices, mom, angel, and.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go back and do that.
Speaker 5: It was.
Speaker 7: It's so interesting though, because as much as I detest Lexana.
Speaker 3: I wanted more of it.
Speaker 7: I really did not enjoy the Clark schmaltziness of the
Speaker 7: Santa of it all, and like as much like I
Speaker 7: don't know if you guys have gleaned from my episodes
Speaker 7: on always hold on to Smallville proper, but I love
Speaker 7: like either like taking clothes off of Tomwelling or putting
Speaker 7: him in outfits. So as much as TIME love Tom
Speaker 7: Welling and like a Christmas look, I just I didn't
Speaker 7: like the whole Santa Claus plot.
Speaker 3: I thought it was cute that they had him like.
Speaker 7: Delivering presents and he could do that because of his powers,
Speaker 7: but I think the whole like magical. I think there
Speaker 7: was just too much like magical realism going on with
Speaker 7: like the It's a Wonderful lifeness with lex and then
Speaker 7: like the Santa's Reel with Clark, and I just wish
Speaker 7: there was honestly more lex And I thought it was
Speaker 7: a great episode, especially for John Glover as well as Lionel,
Speaker 7: but it's not one of my favorites, and it wasn't
Speaker 7: one of my favorites regardless of my own personal stuff.
Speaker 7: I think because I really did not like lex On
Speaker 7: on the show, and then revisiting it, I was like, well,
Speaker 7: if you guys are going to do this, like do
Speaker 7: it full out.
Speaker 3: And I don't feel like the episode did it full out.
Speaker 2: Those are some great points of Victoria. I think there's
Speaker 2: too much going on magically, like you have ghost Mom
Speaker 2: who can showlex the future, and also Santa Claus I can't.
Speaker 2: It's like the Twilight Zone rules, just like the unwritten
Speaker 2: rule of Twilight Zone was like you can have one weird.
Speaker 7: Second, yeah, or make Santa a meteor freak, okay, operate
Speaker 7: within the structure of the show that you have had
Speaker 7: for five seasons.
Speaker 6: I'm just picturing sat, the drunken Santa Claus being doing
Speaker 6: one of the meteor freak you don't know what it's
Speaker 6: like to grow up.
Speaker 8: I would kind of love that, though, I would kind
Speaker 8: of love that.
Speaker 6: That's great.
Speaker 2: These green rocks. I was living in the North Pole,
Speaker 2: all right, and these green rocks came down from the
Speaker 2: sky and destroyed my home.
Speaker 7: Guys, No, but it tracks, it tracks the Fortresses Solitude.
Speaker 7: I don't know fortress the Solitude was meant to be.
Speaker 7: I will be writing fanfic, yes, But.
Speaker 2: It's like the Twilight Zone rules of weirdness where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you can do time travel, but you can't do aliens
Speaker 2: and time travel, or you can't do like ghosts and
Speaker 2: time travel. You do ghosts, right, So that's that was
Speaker 2: That's like the issue with this one, not not that
Speaker 2: it like because they were completely separate from each other,
Speaker 2: like the fact that sand Exists had nothing to do
Speaker 2: with with Mama Lionel Mama, what's Lily and Luther? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then and the Daughter Lily like comics.
Speaker 4: No, nothing has anything to do with anything. It's just
Speaker 4: all here.
Speaker 2: So those are all those are all great points for story.
Speaker 2: So so so Trux, You're you're next up. What are
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Lexmus and why do you hate it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love this episode. I always like seeing them
Speaker 4: play different sides of these characters. So just the idea
Speaker 4: of like super happy, like actually genuine lex for a whole,
Speaker 4: like he's got no pretense on him. He is just
Speaker 4: a normal dude, and it's so nice to just kind
Speaker 4: of see that. For a second, I was all kind
Speaker 4: of thinking, like, you know, you do the plots of
Speaker 4: an episode. I was like, is this it's a wonderful life?
Speaker 4: I guess it kind of is.
Speaker 2: Kind of that. And also Christmas Carol too.
Speaker 4: That totally, but also there's a bit of like for
Speaker 4: the man who has everything in here too, and just
Speaker 4: kind of the way that the fantasy lays out. Obviously
Speaker 4: it's very different mechanis is't.
Speaker 7: But also that movie that I didn't see but I
Speaker 7: know of a Nicholas Cage called The Family Man, Well
Speaker 7: he wakes.
Speaker 4: Up family many Like, oh no, it is.
Speaker 7: It's like I think Nicholas Cage is like a high
Speaker 7: powered businessman and he wakes up and he's like a
Speaker 7: suburban dad, which is also this episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, not to be confused with the weather Man with
Speaker 2: Nicholas Cage was also came in around the same time.
Speaker 2: Very confusing. But yes, this is clearly movie plot. Is
Speaker 2: an episode, I can all agree, but it's it's the
Speaker 2: shades of everything. That's four movie plots.
Speaker 4: It's that. And and to defend their choices for a second,
Speaker 4: like if we're taking the magical realism for granted here,
Speaker 4: I like the idea of these two American or at
Speaker 4: least like heavily americanized icons kind of existing together. Like
Speaker 4: for me, that's just like almost the old guy in
Speaker 4: town scoping out the new talent, you know, like just
Speaker 4: Santus shopping by before he's Superman. If we're looking at
Speaker 4: it in like that weird Grant Morrison level of meta
Speaker 4: text reality, I kind of like the idea.
Speaker 2: So, roka, this is on your top ten list, man,
Speaker 2: So representpresentator, tell us why it deserves a spot on
Speaker 2: the top ten list.
Speaker 6: All right, all right, all right, so lexmis For me,
Speaker 6: it was so interesting and different to see Lex at
Speaker 6: his most human really, and especially at that point in
Speaker 6: the show I thought was really interesting, like the placement
Speaker 6: of that, because if it was like season one or
Speaker 6: season two, it maybe wouldn't have been as fascinating or
Speaker 6: tragic because we already knew Lex is just like this
Speaker 6: great guy in those seasons. But when it came to
Speaker 6: season five and we had seen him torture Aquaman and like,
Speaker 6: you know, and do all this other crazy up here
Speaker 6: on the Shark, I guess, oh, I was quoting that
Speaker 6: for weeks.
Speaker 2: In what way.
Speaker 6: I would go up to people I don't know what
Speaker 6: I was talking about in high school and I'd be like,
Speaker 6: he may be a big fish in the water, but
Speaker 6: up here, I'm sure my best friend back to he'd
Speaker 6: be like, is that another Lex quote?
Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh God, this makes me sad. I
Speaker 3: wish I had more small vel friends growing up.
Speaker 6: I was.
Speaker 3: I would have been there for you.
Speaker 6: I know, if we knew each other in high school,
Speaker 6: we'd all be quoting this together. But yeah, so no,
Speaker 6: it was To me it was a great episode because
Speaker 6: it was really fun and interesting to see, uh Lex
Speaker 6: where he was at that point that's sort of like
Speaker 6: in between transition point where he was almost a villain
Speaker 6: but he wasn't quite there yet, And he was in
Speaker 6: that spot where he almost could go back to being
Speaker 6: good guy Lex, but he couldn't quite get there. And
Speaker 6: to me, like it presented a lot of philosophical sort
Speaker 6: of interesting issues that that idea of power versus living
Speaker 6: a happy family life, And to me, I always had
Speaker 6: this theory of it. But I don't know if anyone
Speaker 6: else thought this or not, but I always had this
Speaker 6: kind of weird theory that the two could coexist. But
Speaker 6: maybe because Lex is Lex and he's got Lionel as
Speaker 6: a dad, Like, if he goes down the power path, like,
Speaker 6: he can't do it in a good, normal way, so
Speaker 6: it has to be really messed up the way he
Speaker 6: goes about it. But if his lesson in the end
Speaker 6: of the episode was, hey, maybe I should hold onto
Speaker 6: my power and money but use it for only good
Speaker 6: and then maybe I can have both, then maybe that
Speaker 6: could have been like a normal person lesson. But he's Lex,
Speaker 6: so he doesn't get a normal person lesson out of it.
Speaker 4: A that's like the tragedy of the series for him,
Speaker 4: is it? You know, just the idea that he's always got.
Speaker 4: There's that dangling carrot of like I could be a
Speaker 4: good man. He could, he could not choose this path
Speaker 4: of super villainy at any point. But we just key
Speaker 4: and make mistake and mistake and mistake and mistake. I'm
Speaker 4: so glad we got into this so quick. But yeah,
Speaker 4: that it was just it's heartbreaking at the end because
Speaker 4: you know that he couldn't have that way.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but then it's also just like the tragedy of
Speaker 7: the show and the premise of the show. And I
Speaker 7: know some people say that the show went on too long,
Speaker 7: but it was nice to have that time to explore
Speaker 7: Lex's journey in downward spiral because I think if this
Speaker 7: was just a guy named Alexander Luthor, he would have
Speaker 7: chosen like the right thing to do maybe, or he
Speaker 7: would have done that like halfway decision. But he's Lex Luthor,
Speaker 7: and we like part of Smallville is we all know
Speaker 7: how the story ends, which again just makes the more
Speaker 7: episode more compelling and more heart wrenching to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think with Lex, he is a man of extremes,
Speaker 2: so he totally he could not have gone either way.
Speaker 2: But when he's presented with his choice of Okay, I
Speaker 2: can do the right thing and have happiness for like
Speaker 2: seven years, or I could do what I was going
Speaker 2: to do anyway, hold on to my money in power
Speaker 2: and then figure it out when that happens. I think,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I probably would have done that because
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, if I have the money in power,
Speaker 2: then I can solve this. We'll figure that when we
Speaker 2: get there. So that I'm not saying I would do
Speaker 2: that slammed, but I understand the reasoning. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: but he just couldn't like your guys are saying, he
Speaker 2: just couldn't stay true.
Speaker 7: Also because I think he gives a really good reason
Speaker 7: to what he's talking to Lillian, where it's not just
Speaker 7: like the future of it all.
Speaker 3: He also brings up this past. He's like, everyone I
Speaker 3: love has died and this is gonna happen to me.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's not to say, because I'm living it
Speaker 7: right now that you can't find happiness after you lose
Speaker 7: a loved one, but like, yeah.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 7: And I was like, oh, that is kind of a
Speaker 7: good point. Like I do kind of see where you're
Speaker 7: coming from with this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feeds to the good guy's side of him
Speaker 4: and the makelamonoacle like I have to control every part
Speaker 4: of my life side of him too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's really Yeah, it really does play off
Speaker 6: of both. And yeah, and also Victoria, what you're saying
Speaker 6: is kind of why I think the episode works. So well,
Speaker 6: and it's in such a self contained way. And even
Speaker 6: though it was cool, like later on when they confirmed
Speaker 6: that it was real, I think it, I know, works
Speaker 6: in a way. I mean that's a whole other discussion,
Speaker 6: but like I think it kind of works better as
Speaker 6: like maybe it's an ambiguous vision because it's his psychology
Speaker 6: kind of way, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's all like a dream.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's definitely ambitious and just the whole thought
Speaker 5: of like you know, Lex literally gets paradise for a day,
Speaker 5: it's just so sad, like the choices he makes after that,
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's you know, it kind of reminds
Speaker 5: me of Buffy, Like you know, when Buffy dies, he
Speaker 5: goes to heaven and then she gets yanked back. You
Speaker 5: feel for somebody like that, it's like, how do you
Speaker 5: recover when you've from from from an experience like that?
Speaker 5: And with Lex, we see him just do the complete
Speaker 5: opposite of what it would be like to be in that,
Speaker 5: in that state of mind, in that paradise. To everybody's point,
Speaker 5: it's like we know the endgame already because his name
Speaker 5: is Lex Luthor and so even though it is tragic,
Speaker 5: it makes sense that he chooses the Lex Luthor path
Speaker 5: as opposed to the Alexander family.
Speaker 2: Man Luthor plan to see like the happiest you could
Speaker 2: ever be and then have it all ripped away is
Speaker 2: a terrible, terrible feeling. And then and then you're chasing it.
Speaker 2: You're just chasing it for pretty much the rest of
Speaker 2: your life, trying to recapture it, trying to micromanage everything.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, this is I just thought about
Speaker 2: this now. It's like fifty first dates right with Adam
Speaker 2: Sandler trying to yeah.
Speaker 4: At the end every time, But he's ignoring the key
Speaker 4: part of the vision, like Lilian's key message to him,
Speaker 4: or and what Lana says to him is just like
Speaker 4: after you got shot, that was like the best thing
Speaker 4: that happened to you because that was the moment that
Speaker 4: you did this. So just fundamentally, he's ignoring the fact
Speaker 4: that no, like today was the day I was supposed
Speaker 4: to change, not today, it was the day I was
Speaker 4: supposed to do the same thing I was gonna do
Speaker 4: in that alley if I didn't get a bullet.
Speaker 2: Well, Clark has the same problem in season five. He's
Speaker 2: like he gets the choice to repeat the day when
Speaker 2: Lana gets killed and then his dad gets killed instead.
Speaker 2: So I mean, like again, I would do this, like,
Speaker 2: and I mean, you're in the moment, you're gonna make
Speaker 2: stupid decisions. You're like, Okay, well I know if I
Speaker 2: do this, that's gonna happen. So I'm gonna not do that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do the opposite of that and then figure
Speaker 2: it out later. So it is tragic, and it's a
Speaker 2: lot more tragic for Lex obviously. Uh then then, well,
Speaker 2: actually it's equally tragic for Lex and Clark when they
Speaker 2: both have that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well it's equally tragic for both of them because
Speaker 5: they are the mirrors of each other with.
Speaker 2: This episode, Like they're older and they're like, I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that you got with Lana, Lex and that we
Speaker 2: could both stay good friends.
Speaker 4: Like, oh oh, how the hell did that happen?
Speaker 7: I feel like the writers were asking themselves that though.
Speaker 3: Can I just say like and just like, if we're
Speaker 3: making a joke, no one will get mad at us.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: The awkward The awkward thing about that though, is like
Speaker 2: at the end, he's like, I love you, Lana. I
Speaker 2: probably tell you that all the time. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I love you, like, oh, that's that's that's a
Speaker 2: nice moment, right, I probably tell you that all the time.
Speaker 2: But then he says I've always loved you. I'm like
Speaker 2: creepy creek, creep great be now it's bad again.
Speaker 4: Did anybody else have the trading cards for the show
Speaker 4: and something? Okay, well, no.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm not a real small though fan.
Speaker 4: Now oh no, please don't like I didn't. I never
Speaker 4: knew what to do with trading cards. My mom kept
Speaker 4: buying them for me, which I'm complaining because my mother
Speaker 4: loved me.
Speaker 2: Where were these? And what did you like? A combook store?
Speaker 2: Because I hadn't. I haven't seen these?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like my mom must have found a site.
Speaker 4: When I was a kid, like every Christmas I would
Speaker 4: get the last season's backs of cards or whatever. But
Speaker 4: they were there were cards that were like the love
Speaker 4: or like the couples, the love interests. In season one,
Speaker 4: there is a Lana and Lex card and I remember
Speaker 4: as a kid going like, that's weird that this would
Speaker 4: be a card, And then like six years later, it's
Speaker 4: like the cards knew Oh my god, yeah they knew.
Speaker 4: It blew my mind.
Speaker 3: It's literally in this statutory rape. How stef exactly.
Speaker 6: Exactly if this existed, If this show existed at this
Speaker 6: time with everything happening, do you think that all that
Speaker 6: stuff would be way more creepytal. No. But I just
Speaker 6: want to say I hate. I want to agree with
Speaker 6: Victoria on something, but defend it. In this case for Lexmus,
Speaker 6: so I agree with Victoria, I hate. I hate Lexana
Speaker 6: in season six. At the time when season six happened,
Speaker 6: I really was super bored with that arc. And and
Speaker 6: that's a lot for me because, like you know, growing
Speaker 6: up with Smallville, like saying I was bored with something
Speaker 6: was like blasphemous, So like I was. But I was
Speaker 6: very bored with the arc of Lexana, and then I
Speaker 6: started to like it as it turned into the whole,
Speaker 6: like realizing how duplicitous and fed up Lex is, like
Speaker 6: what he's doing to then I was like, Okay, that's
Speaker 6: the lex Luthor of the comics, that's where it's going.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 6: But in the case of Lexmith, I just I agree
Speaker 6: with you. It would be cool to see even more
Speaker 6: of it. But I really liked it in Lexmis because
Speaker 6: because it was to me, it felt like the most
Speaker 6: genuine that you see Michael Rosenbaum with an actress, and
Speaker 6: I mean romantically and the most genuine see Christian romantic,
Speaker 6: even though of course you know we all love probably
Speaker 6: Klada from season one or whatever, but like just the
Speaker 6: two of him felt like a really like genuine.
Speaker 2: I like the season one distinction, very good match one.
Speaker 3: Oh god, but Rock I totally get you well, because
Speaker 3: it's in this one. It's a different Lex. It's literally
Speaker 3: a different.
Speaker 6: Lex, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And Lana feels like she's on drugs the whole time,
Speaker 4: like she.
Speaker 3: Is just happiest pregnant woman I've ever.
Speaker 4: Right, she listens to all these stories and like, honey,
Speaker 4: you tell me every year you'd listen to that whole
Speaker 4: thing with a smile, not an eye roll. Like, this
Speaker 4: is weird.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to hear of my take on this, I Lex.
Speaker 2: It's weird because he's always kind of had a thing
Speaker 2: for Lona on certain levels, you know, even back in
Speaker 2: like Nicodemus in season one it was some kind of
Speaker 2: like she was coming on to him and that. But
Speaker 2: in the Whipped Cream Mom and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: To be fair on Lex, who winn't at that episode though?
Speaker 2: But well, I mean she was fifteen and he was
Speaker 2: like twenty two or something. So yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 4: He always feels older than he I mean all they
Speaker 4: all do. But yeah, the way they play his character.
Speaker 2: Were supposed to be five or six years older than Clark,
Speaker 2: so he's like twenty he's like twenty one, twenty two
Speaker 2: d and the Rose of Mom is like, you know,
Speaker 2: ten years older than that. But so it was willing, right,
Speaker 2: but the Lexana thing really didn't start properly until after this,
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like one of those things where
Speaker 2: like he kind of got it in his head from this,
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, that was a great fantasy life
Speaker 2: I love with Lona. Let me pursue that in the
Speaker 2: real world.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's it's interesting because, like you're right, it's
Speaker 5: like they kind of like really ramped it up after this,
Speaker 5: but before even before this though, there's all these hints throughout,
Speaker 5: like you know, the first four seasons and especially you
Speaker 5: know in season four during Onyx. However, if they were
Speaker 5: ever gonna do Lexana, it should have it's been a
Speaker 5: one off and it should have just been this like
Speaker 5: and like an else world's thing. They should have never
Speaker 5: put it in the show proper, like if this is
Speaker 5: the if this was the first, yeah, if this was
Speaker 5: the first instance of it, they would have been actually shocking.
Speaker 5: It would have been like, oh neat, and then we
Speaker 5: would have never seen it again and we wouldn't have
Speaker 5: cringe worthy you know, scenes to watch for you know,
Speaker 5: years to come after this.
Speaker 2: Seeing this episode after Elseworlds have really reminded me of
Speaker 2: Steven mil waking up as Barry Allen. You know, he's
Speaker 2: with Iris and it's really awkward, and that reminded me
Speaker 2: of Rosenbaum here with the line he's like Lana, Dad,
Speaker 2: what's going on?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 2: He like kisses head He's like whoa you know, So
Speaker 2: that kind of reminded me of that. And plus they
Speaker 2: have that goofy music like whatever they're doing, like.
Speaker 4: Mark Snow is off the charge.
Speaker 5: No, it's it's the it's the Hallmark Channel Christmas movie music.
Speaker 5: That's exactly what that is.
Speaker 6: It is.
Speaker 7: Also, can we talk about, like we've discussed how like
Speaker 7: happy like on Drugs Lana was. That was like also
Speaker 7: the best behaved little baby in the world, like the little.
Speaker 3: Son He's like dad hours, I'd be like, yeah, kids
Speaker 3: sound great. If like that's what they really are. Like,
Speaker 3: if that's what that was my experience with the child,
Speaker 3: I'd be.
Speaker 8: Like, cool, they seem easy, no wonder, Yeah, even like
Speaker 8: Clark has Clark has that line too of like you've
Speaker 8: got a great son, and like part of me is like,
Speaker 8: that's weird to say.
Speaker 2: You know, let's talk about this for a minute. Lois
Speaker 2: is not in this episode. So it's implied, Okay, I
Speaker 2: mean it's really it's implied that Clark and Coli together.
Speaker 2: They're at the Christmas Tree place together'use I got her
Speaker 2: arm around her. They're both working the Daily Planet?
Speaker 4: Do they not say as much? I like watching it.
Speaker 4: I always assume that.
Speaker 2: The stuff, but it's it's there because they're going to
Speaker 2: shop for Christmas Tree together. Right, they're together and they're
Speaker 2: not married or anything. There's no rings or anything like that.
Speaker 2: But I thought that was interesting. I want to live
Speaker 2: in that universe for Clark and cooling up together.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: But here's here's a fan theory for you. So Clark
Speaker 2: got his powers back at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 2: What they had exchange for somebody's life, you know, And
Speaker 2: so I guess Lois is the one who ended up
Speaker 2: dying in this in this future, right, because that had
Speaker 2: to be rectified, right, and that's why I.
Speaker 4: Ended up four?
Speaker 3: Or or did she just shack up with Oliver Queen
Speaker 3: because like, is.
Speaker 4: It a butterfly effect thing too?
Speaker 5: Here?
Speaker 4: Like Lex Luthor going good just changes anything in the
Speaker 4: DC universe around them.
Speaker 2: I guess so. Although, and let's talk about reckoning for
Speaker 2: a second. Remember Lois like gets electrocuted or something and
Speaker 2: Clark saves her upstairs at the Talon. Had that not happened,
Speaker 2: then maybe Jonathan wouldn't have died, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So Clark people forget that little moment of Clark saving somebody,
Speaker 2: so we'll talk about butterfly flag and all that stuff. Anyway.
Speaker 2: The real reason is Eric interaction was only a thirteen
Speaker 2: episodes since season four, but it's interesting that she's nowhere
Speaker 2: to be found. Also, I really would have liked if
Speaker 2: Clark was wearing glasses in the future, but for some reason,
Speaker 2: they decided to give those to Jonathan. So that's all
Speaker 2: I had to say about that.
Speaker 5: Well, best opportunity, missed opportunity.
Speaker 4: That does go to a theory that it's all on
Speaker 4: Lex's head too.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Clark. Is he superman?
Speaker 4: Is he not?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally right, because this all could very well just
Speaker 4: be like Lex's best guess at the future at this point.
Speaker 6: Well, and then the the the other theory is kind
Speaker 6: of like like what you said that, Like what if
Speaker 6: Le's going good? Like does that change the whole DC universe?
Speaker 6: Like if Lex is good, is there? Does Clark become
Speaker 6: superman like in Smallville universe or not? Or does he
Speaker 6: or is he just Clark Kent doing good stuff?
Speaker 7: Would they do say that he is a reporter at
Speaker 7: the Daily Planet? And then, Zach, do you just want
Speaker 7: to take a moment about like finally seeing Chloe and
Speaker 7: Clark realize I.
Speaker 3: Think that way?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's this is the closest
Speaker 2: you're ever going to get, like basically like living this
Speaker 2: life together. She's publishing a book, He's a reporter. I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is the future. This is what's gonna happen, guys
Speaker 2: when Lois dies and Chloe takes her name. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is all this is all predicting the future. See it's
Speaker 2: right here, where's she's gone? You know? So if you know,
Speaker 2: if this is if Reddit was around in two thousand
Speaker 2: and five. The threads on this would be I mean
Speaker 2: they existed on krypton side, That's what it was. Krypton
Speaker 2: Side was the Reddit of the time. They were all
Speaker 2: on the forums.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, what is the clothes thing?
Speaker 2: It's like nine hundred pages. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that was a but see episodes like this, like see
Speaker 2: it's the Future Worst Lowest together right board.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: Anyway, at the time, at the time when it aired,
Speaker 6: I remember my theory, but it was totally wrong. But
Speaker 6: but I wrote fanfic kind of based around that. But
Speaker 6: like the theory was like in my head at the
Speaker 6: time was like, oh, maybe what they're implying is like
Speaker 6: if Lex didn't go bad, Chloe would still be alive.
Speaker 6: And maybe what they're implying is Lex is going to
Speaker 6: kill her. That was my theory, you know, And I
Speaker 6: was like, oh, but that was what I predicted it. Oh,
Speaker 6: maybe she's gonna die. And that's why Lark and lowis.
Speaker 4: My favorite unresolved mystery. The whole show, I kept waiting
Speaker 4: for her to die. They just knew at some in
Speaker 4: like a good way, and then it would project him forward.
Speaker 4: But you know, that's where it felt like they were
Speaker 4: going It felt like it was going to be important.
Speaker 2: We've never heard of any Chloe Sullivan and we're from
Speaker 2: the thirty first century. Does the Santa plot bring things down?
Speaker 2: Was that necessary? Like, I know we're kind of talking
Speaker 2: about like all the weirdness aside take out the fact
Speaker 2: there's like magical stuff going on on both ends, Like
Speaker 2: is the fact that we have to waste time with
Speaker 2: Santa Claus?
Speaker 3: I hate it?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I hate it so much. It does slow
Speaker 4: the episode down.
Speaker 7: I just feel like they do it they went two
Speaker 7: steps too far. First of all, I just think they
Speaker 7: should have had Clark delivering presence like having I thought
Speaker 7: it was fun that he was being Santa. Also because
Speaker 7: I know what it's like to be on like the
Speaker 7: low rung at work and like overcompensate to get people
Speaker 7: to take you seriously. So when Chloe was like, I doubled,
Speaker 7: I got all the presents and now I have six.
Speaker 3: Hours to deliver them.
Speaker 7: And also, you know what I freaking loved about this
Speaker 7: episode that Chloe actually used Clark for help instead of
Speaker 7: Clark just being like Chloe, look this up, Chloe, I
Speaker 7: find this, Chloe.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 3: I was like it really is an alternate universe.
Speaker 7: But I just like I thought it was really cute
Speaker 7: that he was like delivering the presence. I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 7: that's cute. But then the fact that the Santa of
Speaker 7: it all, or even if it was like a drunk guy,
Speaker 7: some drunk mal Santa, I was like, I can still
Speaker 7: do this.
Speaker 3: I can still do this.
Speaker 7: And then when he was actually magic, I was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 5: That's that's that's where they overstepped. And it was just like,
Speaker 5: you know, like a drunk mal Santa who was just
Speaker 5: like kind of discouraged at Christmas time and Clark kind
Speaker 5: of like inspires him that they were still good in
Speaker 5: the world. He just goes on about his day. That
Speaker 5: would have been fine, but like they just took it
Speaker 5: a step too far by having him actually be Santa
Speaker 5: magically like wooshing all the all the stuff away, like
Speaker 5: that that was just a step too.
Speaker 3: Far, and that they talked about it so much.
Speaker 7: Sorry, and then the fact that they freaking talked about it,
Speaker 7: and like was like, I think it really posed Sanna okay.
Speaker 4: And clear yep, I agree that was too much.
Speaker 2: There's an episode of swas On called Night of the meek,
Speaker 2: and it's about a mall Santa who's like down. I
Speaker 2: was like, he's an alcoholic. He gets his magic bag,
Speaker 2: he gets people gifts, and then he becomes Santa at
Speaker 2: the end. Uh sort of. So anyway, check it out.
Speaker 2: I recommend it. And that's the kind of the vibe
Speaker 2: I got from that. But I agree she should have
Speaker 2: just been like Superman giving people hope, you know, just
Speaker 2: a normal guy. Although it's funny here Santa clausa they
Speaker 2: bitch and they bitch and they bitch.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 4: I like that he was like drunk Santa Claus first,
Speaker 4: and then when he shows up with the Daily Planet later,
Speaker 4: it's like a little more cleaned up. It felt like,
Speaker 4: you know, they were a little more coff Santa.
Speaker 5: He got he got magic sober.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the magic you know, the magic dirt fell away.
Speaker 6: I always I always get a creepy, creepy vibe from
Speaker 6: that from that scene, even though it's like, I know
Speaker 6: he's supposed to be saying, but just him visiting Chloe
Speaker 6: in the Daily Planet all at night, Yeah, like chuckling
Speaker 6: like Lionel like on this Sullivan and I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: kind of creepy.
Speaker 2: I had a thought now that that scene inspired him,
Speaker 2: like you need like a like some kind of serial
Speaker 2: killer movie or guys, just like Santa visits people on
Speaker 2: Christmas even like vulnerable, Like this is a serial killer
Speaker 2: vibe from this guy. So you wanted to be a
Speaker 2: meteor free Victoria. This is where this leads. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is where this leads.
Speaker 6: It's a perfect setup. Are we are we all of
Speaker 6: that same age? Where we or is this just me
Speaker 6: as a kid? Did you guys all see that like
Speaker 6: Dean Koon's like book with a creepy Santa, like when
Speaker 6: like this.
Speaker 5: I don't remember that, but just thinking about this, like
Speaker 5: watching a couple of years kringle By directed by Jordan
Speaker 5: Peele is gonna come out and it's gonna be this.
Speaker 4: Chloe's reaction when Santa shows up though, like she does
Speaker 4: like the cute little like Santa the alpha game to
Speaker 4: way and then gets to it like why are you here?
Speaker 6: Keeps up?
Speaker 4: Now you're just this strange man? What's going on?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 4: I'm reaching for my mace and I'm two seconds away from.
Speaker 2: You know, watching bathroom I thought you were gonna see
Speaker 2: like her look out the window and then see like
Speaker 2: some reindeer or something when it's.
Speaker 5: Her jingles or hell, jingle bells or anything. But we
Speaker 5: didn't hear any Like, we didn't hear any bells or
Speaker 5: like or anything or hoofs. Nothing.
Speaker 4: It was just no fl.
Speaker 3: Flight, no tights, the roles of Manna's not exempt, no.
Speaker 2: No one talking about the Christmas party at the end
Speaker 2: of the can's the real one? Right? What is Lana wearing?
Speaker 2: It's snowy outside and actually, yeah, well the both of them,
Speaker 2: but especially reind me of for season four clothes.
Speaker 7: Wait, can I can I be like, can I be
Speaker 7: thirsty for a second and like offer the female perspective here?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 3: So if I was like if that was my boyfriend,
Speaker 3: I would be like, oh, I'm so cold, like with
Speaker 3: your big strong arm ORMs around me. So I like
Speaker 3: totally got that move, like.
Speaker 2: Respect fair enough, I understood.
Speaker 3: Because I noticed that too.
Speaker 4: Was the only one comfortable on set too.
Speaker 2: No, it just reminded me of those season four outfits
Speaker 2: she's wearing. She had is this tattoo she doesn't want
Speaker 2: anyone to see? Yet she continues to wear these clothes
Speaker 2: that show offer tattoos.
Speaker 4: She wants no one right, so let me wear backless
Speaker 4: clothes for halving up.
Speaker 6: Me and my mom always uh, because you know, we
Speaker 6: were We're always the best Small Bill friends, you know.
Speaker 6: She she's going to introduce me to the show as
Speaker 6: a as a kid growing up, and so we'd always
Speaker 6: watch it and we'd always make fun of that and
Speaker 6: season a lot of it. Oh you saw my tattoo?
Speaker 6: And yeah, you're.
Speaker 3: Wearing a crop top like.
Speaker 4: You literally just got out of the shower. I saw
Speaker 4: the tattoo.
Speaker 2: Yes, that reminds me, though, She says at the first
Speaker 2: scene with her and Clark, she's like, usually just me
Speaker 2: and Nell for Christmas, really, because I haven't seen Nell
Speaker 2: in like three years.
Speaker 6: Off Screenville act off screen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, say Christmas stuff. Thank you for giving me a
Speaker 2: real Christmas. Your aunt raised you. Your parents are dead,
Speaker 2: show some respect. We're seninry small when you need them nowhere,
Speaker 2: all right, where's Koe's dad? All right? Coe's all her
Speaker 2: dad has. And she's like, Oh, I forget it, dad,
Speaker 2: I'm working double shift to the Daily Planet. These are
Speaker 2: terrible families, and Small Family was bad. Everyone is terrible
Speaker 2: other than the kids. Speaking of family, though Lex named
Speaker 2: they named their daughter Lily for Lilyana na his son Alexander,
Speaker 2: like Alexander Luther the second Like okay, like I thought
Speaker 2: you'd get away from those kinds of names, lex but anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was cute to see him mess with like the
Speaker 2: chair like that.
Speaker 3: That was a great That was a great moment.
Speaker 7: But then I was also like I was just on
Speaker 7: the ride of the fantasy because if I was literally
Speaker 7: about to pop and my husband couldn't do the freaking
Speaker 7: car seat, I would be like, I'm reevaluating a lot
Speaker 7: of decisions.
Speaker 3: But no, it was. It was really perfect.
Speaker 7: That was such a great moment and done by both
Speaker 7: of them where he was like, oh no, like I
Speaker 7: have to Yeah.
Speaker 6: I feel like that was a Michael Rosenbaum like messing
Speaker 6: around with the kid behind the scenes luper.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah for sure, Yeah, for sure. I have a
Speaker 5: friend of mine like who is terrible with it. He
Speaker 5: just refuses to do it, like he has a kid,
Speaker 5: but like he refuses to like install it so just
Speaker 5: permanently in this car, like just set up like he
Speaker 5: hasn't got rid of it. It's just like it's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Something else we talk about is Lionel. I was just
Speaker 2: gonna say, yeah, so why don't you guys take it
Speaker 2: away talk some lionel.
Speaker 4: I think this is some of the coolest line will
Speaker 4: ever get. Like this is so like top notch, like
Speaker 4: very fairy tale. The way he's shot, but like it
Speaker 4: reminded me of like mister Potter and it's a wonderful life.
Speaker 4: And the way his hair is kind of slicked back,
Speaker 4: it's a little longer. It's just like it's an odd
Speaker 4: way to see him, but also very true too. And
Speaker 4: just obviously he's as cold as he's ever been in
Speaker 4: this scene. I love this line.
Speaker 6: I agree. It was like when you see him in
Speaker 6: that moment, it was so like you said, fairy tale esque,
Speaker 6: is like way more to the point, he's not playing around.
Speaker 6: He's not you know, being like I canted to make
Speaker 6: you stronger. How you're either my son, he's just like no,
Speaker 6: like nobs, I'm gonna let your wife die boom, like
Speaker 6: just so cold, so evil and and and it made
Speaker 6: me wonder if this is a true version of events
Speaker 6: of how things could go in the future if Lex
Speaker 6: had stayed good. Does that mean that like because Lex
Speaker 6: and Lioneler are so yin and yang at the opposite
Speaker 6: ends of the spectrum all the time. Does that mean
Speaker 6: if Lex stayed good, that Lionel would have stayed bad
Speaker 6: and that would have been and he maybe wouldn't have
Speaker 6: made the transformation into good, perhaps because they always have
Speaker 6: to be on opposite end of the spectrum. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that's a great point.
Speaker 7: I also think it was just so delicious both in
Speaker 7: the quote unquote real world and are in the fantasy
Speaker 7: to see Lionel and then John Glover just so perfectly
Speaker 7: play grappling in both situations with these life and death stakes,
Speaker 7: and like since the stakes are so high, I think
Speaker 7: it was just like I don't know why I'm making
Speaker 7: it about food, but it was like it was like
Speaker 7: this is like a feast for both of them as actors,
Speaker 7: and like they like John Glover just always kills it
Speaker 7: and like yeah, because you you.
Speaker 3: Under like you get kind of where he's got coming from, right, Yeah.
Speaker 7: And the Wheel version where he's like operate and he's
Speaker 7: like and it's kind of like what Lex is saying.
Speaker 7: He's like, I'm just gonna have the resources. So if
Speaker 7: this is something like this does happen.
Speaker 3: I can fix it.
Speaker 7: Like Lionel kind of does that he's like, no, I'm
Speaker 7: airlifting my son to like the best hospital, and we're
Speaker 7: gonna take the chance. And you know, because that's Lionel
Speaker 7: that he's also like Linel like luthers don't do wheelchairs,
Speaker 7: but also like you can't see like the colonel of
Speaker 7: the father like fighting to like save his son. And
Speaker 7: then yeah, and then like in Fantasyland, and I love
Speaker 7: how you say it is because it is very fairy
Speaker 7: to like, and I love how that.
Speaker 3: That confrontation scene between them is lit. It's like so
Speaker 3: stark and intent.
Speaker 7: You see him just be like totally heartless, and it's
Speaker 7: just it's such an interesting because we've seen this dynamic before,
Speaker 7: but to see this like shade of it and to
Speaker 7: see this this like die like that dialect's not the
Speaker 7: right word, but to see this like little fracture of
Speaker 7: it was was really great and heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent points about three of you'all. And now we're
Speaker 2: gonna make some comical observations. Yes, one, he gets shot
Speaker 2: in Grandville, Okay, so they don't take him to a
Speaker 2: Granville hospital or find a metropolis to take him to
Speaker 2: Smallville general. It's like, no, no, he should have been
Speaker 2: air flighted in Metropolis immediately, all right, immediately the second
Speaker 2: of all, like Lion'll be like, no, no, my son
Speaker 2: is going to walk like that's so Linyl because he's
Speaker 2: like he's a shame of him because he's bald, much
Speaker 2: less than a wheel you know, if he was in
Speaker 2: a wheelchair.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no way, I'm wheeling this kid around.
Speaker 2: And then ironically, when if you go to Labyrinth in
Speaker 2: season six where Clark has his like whole fantasy headland,
Speaker 2: Lex is in a wheelchair, his leg's been amputated from
Speaker 2: the crocks, and you have Clark, So that's interesting. And
Speaker 2: then finally, why does Lionel not have a house? Like
Speaker 2: I understand they're on a budget and they can't, but
Speaker 2: he's why is seeing Luther Mansion all right? Which, by
Speaker 2: the way, I got a good look at that l
Speaker 2: There was no Veritas symbol there, all right, there it
Speaker 2: is the one.
Speaker 5: Well see it's interesting, like you know, Lionel sitting there,
Speaker 5: like I mean, I think it's just to Lionel in
Speaker 5: the Luther Mansion just shows how powerful he is in
Speaker 5: contrast to Lex in the fantasy world. And it's it's interesting,
Speaker 5: y'all keep using like the term like fantasy work because
Speaker 5: it is, and to me, it's it's very a Christmas
Speaker 5: Carol like because that role at that moment, Lionel is
Speaker 5: definitely is like is like Scrooge and Lex coming to
Speaker 5: see him asking for help is is Marley asking for
Speaker 5: that day off right, And he's like he just doesn't
Speaker 5: get it and so and so he just it just
Speaker 5: kind of it's accentuates how powerfully is with how weak
Speaker 5: that Lex is. But then I think the most telling
Speaker 5: line that Lionel says in there is, uh, he's like
Speaker 5: grand children. He's like, I don't even have a son,
Speaker 5: and it's just like and up until that point, you like, Lionel,
Speaker 5: as bad as he was to Lex, like, he's still
Speaker 5: so vain and arrogant that he needs like that lineage
Speaker 5: he needs. He has to tolerate Lex because the Luther
Speaker 5: name is very important to him. And then when you
Speaker 5: go to reality, Lionel, even though he probably hates his son,
Speaker 5: is doing all this still so we can make sure
Speaker 5: that he walks and that he's alive, so that way
Speaker 5: he can carry that on. Like even though you know
Speaker 5: Lex didn't appreciate it, Lionel knew it had to be
Speaker 5: done for that reason, not for Lex's health, but for
Speaker 5: his benefit. So it's interesting to see the two Lionels, like,
Speaker 5: you know, back to back almost in these scenes.
Speaker 4: You're talking about the two Lexes, like, there's also the
Speaker 4: similarities between the two Luthers here, Like they're both making
Speaker 4: I'm talking real world Lex and real world Lionel here
Speaker 4: are both making these key life choices, decisions without really
Speaker 4: much thought beyond no, I'm a Luther, this is how
Speaker 4: I want it. I'm not compromising on anything here, And
Speaker 4: they're both making the same mistake, just proving the fact
Speaker 4: that Lex is a Luthor.
Speaker 6: That's a really good point. And it's also interestingly like
Speaker 6: parallel to season one or no wait, season two when
Speaker 6: Lex had to make that choice for Lionel in the
Speaker 6: hospital blind right, and it was like, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Thought that as well. That was some nice symmetry there is.
Speaker 4: That's a good.
Speaker 5: And of course.
Speaker 6: We both would have been wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I did. I did really like the
Speaker 2: very good this is this is the line over here, right,
Speaker 2: I really did like the last team in from Lex
Speaker 2: and Lionel was like, how dare you play god with
Speaker 2: my life? My good? I'm glad Lex found out that
Speaker 2: Lionel was going to let him die, Like he didn't
Speaker 2: even have an answer. He was like, what, what, how
Speaker 2: would you justified it if I had not lived? And
Speaker 2: I kind of tries to like back away and like
Speaker 2: scrabs him and looks at him in the eye. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, every single scene in between the two of
Speaker 2: them is so awesome. So I don't know what more
Speaker 2: can you say?
Speaker 4: I wonder what, like do we have any did they
Speaker 4: ever talk either of them about those scenes where they
Speaker 4: do have to be that intense because like you know,
Speaker 4: we've all seen the bloopers where like they're really pally
Speaker 4: and jokey with each other when they're just doing like
Speaker 4: let's drink and figure out who has the power in
Speaker 4: this scene stuff. But like in these intense moments, like
Speaker 4: you can tell like these guys must get along and
Speaker 4: like trust each other quite a lot here because they
Speaker 4: get to you know, really get up with their emotions.
Speaker 6: Like that's a great well.
Speaker 2: I know they always they always talked about like the
Speaker 2: art of touching, like John Glover is gonna go like
Speaker 2: just like putting a hand on your shoulder, you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing that's a kind of Rosamom picked
Speaker 2: it up from him, and they're all just trying to
Speaker 2: out personal space invade each other. Yeah, I try to
Speaker 2: make it not sound that way, thank you, but but yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I that's what's great about the show, and they really
Speaker 2: do make the show.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Finally, last point here, Lexmus stupid title or brilliant title?
Speaker 6: I thought it was brilliant. I thought I thought it
Speaker 6: was really cute and like, weirdly not a Smallville title.
Speaker 6: But that's why I like it. Like it's just it's
Speaker 6: not like it's a passive vortex are very right, like
Speaker 6: Yule Tide slave.
Speaker 5: Well, and also it tells you everything you need to
Speaker 5: know about the episode. It's a Christmas special and it's
Speaker 5: centered around Lex, so I mean and obviously for like honestly,
Speaker 5: for a small vite Christmas episode, what else were you
Speaker 5: gonna call it?
Speaker 4: I mean, you'll tired, you'll tie tonight.
Speaker 3: So we get Al Golf and Miles Miller on the phone.
Speaker 4: Guys, we found the one mistake.
Speaker 5: This see I'm gonna I'm gonna roll with the dial, all.
Speaker 2: Right, guys. Well, a lot of fun. Any final thoughts here?
Speaker 2: Anything you just were dying to mention that we didn't
Speaker 2: mention griff Guys. Griff Griffer goes on to play a
Speaker 2: Kryptonian in season nine and a police and a police
Speaker 2: captain on Arrow for like at least the first four
Speaker 2: or five years.
Speaker 9: So as a jaded industry person, you gotta love a
Speaker 9: local Vancouver actor. You gotta love a local that you
Speaker 9: can just hire and not have to pay for and
Speaker 9: get that tax to be banned on.
Speaker 2: What about you, Trix, what are your final thoughts?
Speaker 4: I think it's my favorite Superman Christmas Eve thing, or
Speaker 4: at least the most rewatched for me as far as
Speaker 4: like Christmas tradition stuff.
Speaker 2: Even more than the Howie Mandel Mister Mix's FLICA.
Speaker 4: I marketly love that Lowis and Clark episode. I hate
Speaker 4: the one that Dean Kine wrote.
Speaker 2: With the Jefferson.
Speaker 4: I really like what is it called Yes? With the Jefferson.
Speaker 4: I really like comfort and joy from the animated stuff.
Speaker 5: I watch Comfort Enjoy every Christmas Eve. It's part of
Speaker 5: my tradition, Like I watched that before I go to
Speaker 5: bed on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 4: This is dark Christmas stuff for me. Like, I really
Speaker 4: liked this episode. I think it's my favorite, my favorite
Speaker 4: Superman Christmas thing, So gold Star.
Speaker 2: What about you?
Speaker 6: Rocca totally agreed. I think it's one of my Christmas specials.
Speaker 6: I guess I go to it every every year, me
Speaker 6: and my mom watch rewatch the episode. It's a Christmas tradition.
Speaker 6: Always takes me back to seeing it when I was
Speaker 6: way back in high school, back in the day. I
Speaker 6: just thought it was incredibly well written, well directed, really beautiful.
Speaker 6: The Santas stuff is a little bit much, but it
Speaker 6: never really bothered me, just because it was in this
Speaker 6: context of this weird one off episode. So I just
Speaker 6: thought of that stuff was just kind of funny, but
Speaker 6: like the whole Lex stuff was really interesting. Oh and
Speaker 6: I just want to say, and on the Lex on
Speaker 6: a note, we were all joking about how the hell
Speaker 6: did that happen. I always point that out when when
Speaker 6: people complain in later seasons that Clark and Lex became
Speaker 6: enemies over like a relationship, and as like nah, dude,
Speaker 6: like look at Lexmiths. They would have been friends if
Speaker 6: Lex was a good guy when he started going out
Speaker 6: with on it. Wow, he's an evil bastard when he
Speaker 6: does Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, interesting interesting for me. The standout thing, like weird
Speaker 5: extra thing from this episode. It was going to be
Speaker 5: griff but Victoria, you took that one. But there is
Speaker 5: all good. It's because there is another thing that happens
Speaker 5: that like that caught my eye really quickly in the episode,
Speaker 5: and it happens at the very beginning, and the two
Speaker 5: gang bangers that assault Lex, right, the dude that like
Speaker 5: initially gets his attention put and holds me at gunpoint
Speaker 5: was a power ranger. That's just like, are you serious?
Speaker 5: It gets crazy, but like Hora Vargas, Uh, he's been
Speaker 5: at a bunch of stuff, but like he was one
Speaker 5: of the New Zealand Rangers around that time. This is
Speaker 5: like right in his little hat. He hasn't done anything
Speaker 5: really else. He's done Smallville, a few bit parts on
Speaker 5: like uh, falling Skies and that. Yeah, this is all
Speaker 5: he's done. Uh looked. I looked him up because I
Speaker 5: was like, this guy looks really familiar, and then I
Speaker 5: saw it. I was like, you've got to be kidding me.
Speaker 2: Why do they shoot Lex in the back. It's a
Speaker 2: little excessive. He was he was gonna give him his watch,
Speaker 2: you know, he missed opportunity. I thought they were gonna
Speaker 2: like show it. It was gonna be the watch that
Speaker 2: his mom gave him from ship. That's why he doesn't
Speaker 2: give it all. They didn't do that. He just got
Speaker 2: shot for no reason.
Speaker 4: That would have been cool. Also that that little alley
Speaker 4: where they meet real quick, You're like underground there, that's
Speaker 4: totally the Luther Court tunnels, right.
Speaker 2: What the hell you doing here?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: It was one of those like I had to come
Speaker 4: all the way down here to this place I own
Speaker 4: to exactly.
Speaker 2: My last favorite, favorite little thing that I that I
Speaker 2: know some an episode is when Clark is doing his
Speaker 2: Santa thing and he sees the milking cookies and he
Speaker 2: has some. I thought that was great. That was a
Speaker 2: great little moment.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I love that.
Speaker 6: I'm the new and improved version, the new improved version.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I indeed, you are.
Speaker 6: Sorry.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 10: Smallville the complete fifth season.
Speaker 3: We didn't ask for a world that needs heroes, but
Speaker 3: the truth is we do.
Speaker 10: Buying it on DVD September twelve, That's.
Speaker 4: What I've always wanted.
Speaker 10: Includes all new behind the scenes on the making of
Speaker 10: the one hundredth episode.
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Speaker 4: We two did, was is it you.
Speaker 3: Are going to touch the lives?
Speaker 4: But so many pefore it's to day Just stay super bro.
Speaker 10: Smallville the complete fifth season. Look for all new episodes
Speaker 10: Thursdays at eight seventh Central only on the CW.
Speaker 2: All Right, I hope all y'all enjoyed our discussion about
Speaker 2: Lexmis and despite us being maybe a little too critical
Speaker 2: of Sanna being Cannon on Earth one sixty seven, I
Speaker 2: think we all appreciated what this episode said, understand why
Speaker 2: resonated with so many people, and as Lance probably more
Speaker 2: than all of us, really gravitated towards It's a Christmas special,
Speaker 2: It is a Hallmark movie, it is a holiday movie.
Speaker 2: It has that spirit of Christmas to it. Which another
Speaker 2: thing I want to call out when they're in these
Speaker 2: top ten episodes is what a banger of a song
Speaker 2: Ray Charles spirit of Christmas am to me and I
Speaker 2: know to a lot of you. The popular music they
Speaker 2: chose to put in episodes of Smallville was such a
Speaker 2: crucial component to its success and our connection to it,
Speaker 2: and just part of that secret sauce that made Smallville
Speaker 2: so great. So hey, number ten episode as one of
Speaker 2: those Ray Charles Spirit of Christmas, And yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I've really come to enjoy this episode more and come
Speaker 2: around to it over the years, because again I missed
Speaker 2: it in first run, so I'd seen it less than
Speaker 2: a lot of the other ones and didn't have that
Speaker 2: nostalgic attachment to it. And that's what's so much of
Speaker 2: this love for this show is really thinking back to
Speaker 2: where you were when you first saw it and where
Speaker 2: you were in life even more so, and those memories.
Speaker 2: And no, I really do put it up there with
Speaker 2: one of these great you know DC Comics Christmas specials,
Speaker 2: if you will, like we talked about especially Lance again
Speaker 2: talking about the Animated Universe, the DCAU, there are Christmas episodes.
Speaker 2: His traditions watching those Batman returns is probably mine. So
Speaker 2: that's a whole different shade of a Christmas special. But yes,
Speaker 2: Marvel had its Christmas special and for a show that
Speaker 2: ran ten years, and honestly is kind of surprising they
Speaker 2: didn't do Christmas more. You know, thinking about a show
Speaker 2: at this point in time, they probably thought they were
Speaker 2: gonna go five years, so they said, well, we better
Speaker 2: do that Christmas episode, because they did. They do a
Speaker 2: couple of Thanksgiving esque episodes, or at least episodes that
Speaker 2: happen around a Thanksgiving dinner table at some point. They
Speaker 2: do really just the one Halloween episode. They do the
Speaker 2: two Valentine's Day episodes, and you know they never did
Speaker 2: you know, Saint Patrick's Day or what July fourth is
Speaker 2: like in the summer, so they really can't do that.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting to see which which holidays they gravitated
Speaker 2: towards doing and how many times. And this is the
Speaker 2: Christmas episode. So again, hope you guys enjoyed our conversation.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned next week to find out which episode is
Speaker 2: the number nine episode of Smallville as voted by you
Speaker 2: the listeners, and until then, Always hold on To Smallville.
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