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Speaker 1: Yeah, he says that Christianity is I don't have my

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copy here, but you look up where he talks about alters,

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and he says that Christianity is intolerant and it tears

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down pagan altars. And he's basically arguing the I don't

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know why the Vatican websites. Maybe the Vaticans blocked me

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because I can pull up any of their stuff, like

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their website is not working for me. Yeah, it's right, No,

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it's it's not all right because I want people to

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see this in cyclical So let me find it over here.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So brennand dere Serge is the Catholic position against the

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philosophy of the Reich, and it includes the critiques of

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the Marcianite elements, but specifically for just take it, just

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get a PDF and control f search for where he

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talks about alters and Christianity tears down pagan alters and

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that that's a problem for the Reich because their philosophy

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is Rosenberg's positive Christianity. You know, do you know what that?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: I do not?

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Positive Christianity is the Reich's philosophy of a new Christian

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theology where you would have everything judaic purged out of

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the text and out of the philosophy, and that comes

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out of the higher critical approach of people like Julius Belhausen.

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That's the father of higher critical studies.

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Speaker 2: All right, thank you, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Great great question there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah we got a question.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Uh, so you once stated that Roman Catholicism is typically

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displayed as an unfalsifiable position, right, Uh, the goal shifting

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on defining what the papacy means in the various and

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cyclicals and even documents of Etican Two. If I wanted

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to use that argument against the Roman Catholic demonstrating that

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their position is unfalsifiable, or at least they think it is,

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how would I go about defending the objection if they.

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Speaker 2: Raise it that?

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Speaker 5: Well, you think the same thing about Orthodoxy, that it's unfalsifiable.

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So the question is basically, is the orthodox position unfalsifiable?

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And if not, what is the criteria or fal falsifiability

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or whatever you would say for the Orthodoxic position?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's two different senses of what we mean by unfalsifiable. Right.

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So this comes out of certain twentieth century philosophers who

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came up with an idea of falsification theory, and that

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if you had a scientific position, you basically consider it

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as plausible until it's falsified. This is more of a

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rhetorical critique that positions like Marxism, for example, can always

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tweak the position to where you can never defeat it.

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So it's not saying that the position is actually unfalsifiable.

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It's saying that there's a weakness in the position that

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makes it able to constantly move the goalposts so that

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you could never argue against it. Let me give an

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example in Marxism. If you can, you mute, please just

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allow dude. In Marxism, if you can, you mute, please,

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thank you. Chase Prett said that in Marxism, if you

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critique Marxism, you're already negated as a critic because you're

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coming from the bourgeoisie. Because the only people that critique

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Marxism would be people from the bourgeoisie or the petty bourgeoisie.

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So you could never critique Marxism because all critiques are falsified.

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It'd be like if a Roman Catholic said all critics

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are falsified of the papacy because everyone critiquing the papacy

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is a schismatic so that all of the views are invalidated.

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So it's not actually saying the position is unfalsifiable. It's

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a rhetorical jab that the position is weak. So does

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that make sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So we're saying we're saying our position is wholly consistent

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and authentically unfalsifiable, meaning that it can't be disproven. We're

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saying that the papacy pretends to have unfalsifiability, but it's

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actually just moving the goalposts to make the system fit

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together and work.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, in the sense of what would falsify Orthodoxy is

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you know, finding the problems in our metaphysics or aristmology,

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our history, inconsistencies in our history. Right, But I'll say, hey,

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you can't prove it wrong because it's isn't saying there's

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no criteria through which you could prove this incorrect.

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Speaker 2: Those are two different things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good point, Chase, good question, though, Jay I.

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Speaker 2: Got a question.

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Speaker 7: So the Orthodox Church in Greece, I think they released

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like an AI software logos to ask like questions, and

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I just want to ask, should should this be stopped

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right now? Or is this something that like we should

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look into.

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Speaker 1: More an AI what.

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Speaker 7: Like, they released like an like an AI basically an

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AI LM with.

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Speaker 2: Like just orthodox teachings and it's.

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Speaker 7: Basically used as like a question questionnaire, like so should

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this be stopped right now?

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Speaker 1: Or is this something that like there was some there

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was some Ortho bros Create trying to write an l

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l M that would have orthodox answers. I don't necessarily

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think it's immediately a problem, but I could definitely see

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it being a problem because so many people default to

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thinking that AI is like this authoritative source. I mean

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we already see like gen alphagen Z. People basically just

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will quote at you AI as a source. For example,

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there was this Roman Calvic Doo that was like Vatican

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two isn't dogmatic because here's an AI saying it's not dogmatic.

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So like, in that sense it could be dangerous. But

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in the sense of like you know, quick search engine

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type stuff, that's really that's the only function that AI

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has is to be like a much quicker search engine.

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So outside of that, it seems like it could be

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it could it could conceivably become. It might not be wise.

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That's a good way to put it, you know, in

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life and in Christianity and Orthodoxy, et cetera. Like, not

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everything that occurs is necessarily immediately good or bad or

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sin or righteous. Like, there's a lot of things in

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life that are neutral and can be used either way.

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So that's why not. Paul even says all things are lawful,

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but not all things are profitable. So there's a question

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at a time I think of wisdom, whether things are

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like that or wisdom. So I think it could be problematic,

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but good question.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And I mean the way I'm using my AI

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priests to confess instead of having to go in like

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and like do it in person, that's definitely a positive

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thing because I don't have to feel shame or anything.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you don't have to confess the transitioning that

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you went through either, because the AI has already decided

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that it's okay.

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Speaker 8: Right, Bro, that's not public yet.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I thought you had your pronouns in your bio.

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But that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Just you know it was a joke today.

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Speaker 1: Come on, dude, Hello, Hey, what's up? Yes, please be quick,

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please be quick?

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Speaker 2: All right, Right, So my first question was.

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Speaker 9: Like, oh, what books would you recommend when it comes

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to someone who has begun studying epistemology.

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Speaker 1: Uh, usually the same ones that FDA recommends. The Bonjour text,

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which is more of a graduate school tax in the WJ.

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Woodbook on Epistemology is a good introduction.

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Speaker 9: All right, Yeah, I'll make sure to check them out.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 9: And my second question, will it has to do most

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of you know about the Latinizer's movement, or and not

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just Latinisers in general, when people begin using scholastic methodology

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when it comes to approaching the faith.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm seeing a.

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Speaker 9: Lot of people online using their terminology and their methodology

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when it comes to logic and reasoning, and I just

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want to hear what do you think about like them

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using those sorts of terminology reasoning when it comes to

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approaching to faith, When to faith to the Christian faith obviously.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's that exists in the Eastern Fathers too,

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so I really you really just have to get specific.

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I mean it's a question I think of the appropriate

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use of these tools and not exalt the tools to

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become the ends in themselves. So scholasticism ends up giving

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right in the West, ends up giving rise to atheism

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because it puts the Dianoia rational faculty above the heart

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the news, and so you get an imbalance. And so

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I think that's the danger. But if you look at

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Saint Maximus, if you look at Saint Photius, they were

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the most learned and scholastical men of their time. If

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you look at Saint Gregor Palomas, he's using epidictic logic

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in the Epidictic Treatise on the Howly Spread against the

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Philly Oaquay. So he's using a Ristilian logic. So none

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of that thing is the is the problem is the

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question of exalting the tool to become an end in itself.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, yeah, that's that's great question.

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Speaker 8: An answer question relating to tag sure, sure, Okay.

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Speaker 10: So for context, I had a conversation with a friend

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of mine who is a Protestant, and he basically said

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that scripture was the final authority. And basically the route

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I took was I asked him and got him to

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agree that that proposition was a knowledge claim, and I

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pointed out how knowledge required a standard such as logic,

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that was unchanging and invariant, and so I told him

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that in order to use logic he would need to

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partake in God's nature basically, So I asked him since

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he denied the essence energy distinction and he had no

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epistemic sort of mechanism by which he could participate, And

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he basically responded by starting to Peter chapter one, verse four,

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and he basically said that he reflected logic and that

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he didn't actually like fully partaken.

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Speaker 8: And so my question is how would you respond to that?

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Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't go into all of that detail debating

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something like that. I would just kind of go with

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more basic arguments about solo scriptura because people that are

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convinced of solar scripture, and in the Protestant domain ninety

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nine point nine percent of them, they don't know anything

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about metaphysics. So when you try to go into these

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metaphysical arguments, I think it's just kind of digging a

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deeper hole. It's not necessary, so focus on I'm about

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to upload the debate that we did with Dale the Protestant,

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which is a classic debate I think with me and

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doctor bo Branson where we confront you know, a mid

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tier Protestant arguer when it comes to solar scripturer. So

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but if you want to be more specific, like well,

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he's when he says well, it just reflects, you know,

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God's mind. Well, that's the thing in question. So if

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you don't have access to the divine mind, if there

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is no essencety distinction, there's no midpoint between God and

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his simplicity in the created order, if there's no energies

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by which he interacts with the created order, then you

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don't actually have a direct access to the divine mind.

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So when you say that my mind and my logic

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reflects into my mind, you're begging the question, well, how

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is that possible in a situation, in a scenario where

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God is cashed out as the opposite of the created

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order and nothing like created things? I thanks, Yeah, I'm

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trying to find Dale the Protestant the bait. What's up?

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Speaker 2: How many questions can I ask?

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Speaker 1: Seventeen seventeen? It's a joke. How many do you have?

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Speaker 2: What if science ever? How many days that is written? Hello?

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, go ahead?

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Speaker 11: What if science ever contradicts something that is written in

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the Bible or the teachings of the church.

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Speaker 2: I mean, let's say an alien.

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Speaker 11: Species ever appears like welcome be the position.

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Speaker 2: Of the Orthodox Church.

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Speaker 1: We would go with your position, we would go with

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the aliens we would we would be sola alien.

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Speaker 2: I'm not joking. That would be the position. Yes, you

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wouldn't say it's demons or no.

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Speaker 1: We would immediately capitulate and we would believe in the

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infallibility of a new alien papacy.

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Speaker 11: Okay, what about Camara's if humans were able to create a.

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Speaker 2: Camara that can speak, that can.

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Speaker 1: Talk, I mean you're talking about like Kit because only

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a lot of Boomers had Camaros. But really, Kit is

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the only Camaro wish car I've ever seen that actually

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talks from Night Rider.

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Speaker 2: Like, what would the what would be the position? Would

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you say it's a human? Would you say it's.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would say it's totally boomer. I mean

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if you want to drive a Camaro around the talks,

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I mean you can, but like you're full on Boomer. Yeah,

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I know, Camaro right, like K like David Householf.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you?

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Speaker 1: Who's next? Is Kid a Camara? That's the next question?

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Is Kid actually a Camaro? O?

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Speaker 12: I have a lot of mental issues, and that's a same.

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Speaker 2: I watched a lot of media stuff to keep out

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away from sinning.

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Speaker 13: I'm just wondering if that's a good or batting like,

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if like video games and movies are keeping me away

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from sinning or demons are I.

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Speaker 1: Guess it depends on what movies and video games you're playing,

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so I don't know. Man. I would say, try to

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find a spiritual father for you know, that kind of stuff.

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But who's next? Y?

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Speaker 4: Hi?

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Speaker 2: I have a question, okay, okay. I was wondering if

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you felt that, compared to other Christian denominations, that Orthodoxy

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and Eastern Orthodoxy in particular, was less likely to experience cultism.

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Speaker 1: You mean, to be cult like like people acting like

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urus and cult leaders. Yeah, I mean that can happen anywhere,

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but yeah, I think it's less likely because generally speaking,

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the Holy Spirit is in the Orthodox Church. So but

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there have been schismatics in groups that become very cult like.

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There have been monasteries monastics who have been cult like

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and have abused people. So it's still possible because humans

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are humans everywhere you go. I would say that I've

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met less guru cult like attitudes in the Orthodox world

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than I've seen anywhere else. Thank you, sure, A good question.

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I'm about to upload. Go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I was gonna ask. I think one of the

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things that I feel.

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Speaker 7: Like like I was, I'm cradle horseblocks and one of

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the things that like I've realized, like coming to America,

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it's like a lot of lot of things, Like when

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people convert to earth blocks.

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Speaker 14: It's like they.

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Speaker 2: It kind of come becomes like a club, right.

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Speaker 7: Like I'm not sure what your opinion is this, but

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like when people think their sayings the name, right, they

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use that like only within.

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Speaker 2: When they go to the doors Stock Church. When you

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go to doors.

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Speaker 7: Stocks Church, Okay, I'm now Seraphim, but like outside of

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stock Church, I'm John. You know, it's like kind of

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feel to me. That feels to me like a double personality.

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Do you have any opinion on that, like should you

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always stay like Unsuraphim or No.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's a double personality because you're still

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who you are from your parents. You still have a

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life in this world, and we don't live in an

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Orthodox culture. So no, I think that's part of the

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reason why you have that name in our world is

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that it is kind of a club. It's the club

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as it is the church. So but no, I don't

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see a problem with that. I mean, they're there. You

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can have churches that are wealthy and develop club like

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clique attitudes. And if you read the rebukes to the

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seven churches in Asia minor, right, one of the churches

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was that way when they get rebuked for being wealthy

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and snobbish and you know.

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Speaker 7: Cold, one of the guess the reason why I'm saying

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this right, because like your previous life was a dead life,

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you know, like you're now a new person, so like

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your old name is a dead name.

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Speaker 2: So that's why.

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Speaker 1: It's not we're not we're not we're not trans people.

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It's not a dead name. I don't. Yeah, that's that's

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that's a valid Oh. I just disagreed, So if you want, yeah,

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I just disagree. But you got to live in this

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sort still.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, thank you?

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Speaker 1: Sure, good questions. Well, who's next? Oh hello, okay, No,

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So we've seen.

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Speaker 2: Each other before.

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Speaker 15: I attended one of your lectures live here, Florida.

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Speaker 2: My wife and I were both there.

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Speaker 15: Okay, uh, I just wanted to make breaference for that.

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But I have a funny story for you. I haven't

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really thought out of how I'm gonna say it because

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it's quite long, and I'm gonna try to make as

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short as I can. So we've been intending to perish

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in kiss Me, which later moved to Orlando, And I've

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always had an next uh a relationship with my priest

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and the perishing general I.

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Speaker 2: Had no issues with.

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Speaker 15: The parish was very neutral and everything just like you're

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just like you're thinking what an average parish.

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Speaker 2: Would look like.

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Speaker 15: But every time I would up any topic that had

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to do with theology, reading a book or Jay Dyer

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for example, it seems like the priest was obsessed with

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getting people off of the Internet, and he would either

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bring that up in the most direct way, but never

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actually talking about you or any particular figure, And he

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would always bring up a bush Kers.

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Speaker 2: For some really awkward reason. Like the point he was trying.

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Speaker 15: To make is that every time that you mentioned some

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theological topic that you wanted to talk about, or maybe

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bring up something that you saw on YouTube by some

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wortodox figure, he would try to shut that down in

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a sort of passive aggressive way. So it's kind of

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hard to pinpoint what exactly is being done that sounded

335
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so shady, but the atmosphere was always just so against well,

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I guess what you call warto bros Internet or todoxy,

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and that always felt wrong to me. So it's an

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OCA perish and I just started to search because even

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though the and sounded very beast aggressive all the time,

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I just could sense that there was sort of narrative.

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Speaker 1: That, yeah, they're they're told, they're told from their bishops

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from the top down, to not not have anything to

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do with me.

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Speaker 14: Right.

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Speaker 15: So it's hard to communicate this stuff because it's never

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they never communicate what you're trying to pose in a

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direct way. You can just feel that there's something wrong.

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Every time you bring some term up or some word

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you shouldn't use, the atmosphere just shifts, and there's like

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this this attempt to change change the mood. Uh, they're

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very I mean, I'm I have to be bald to

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say it is like if there's.

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Speaker 1: We've got a lot of people leave OCA churches in

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Florida and come to our church precisely because of this

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kind of stuff.

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Speaker 15: So right, I mean, the only way that I can

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communicate it more properly is by being more bald. If

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there's one thing liberals love to say is that they

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are not trying to speak about politics when they are.

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Of course, it's very interesting there there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the OCA Church in Jacksonville, like openly communes,

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open skittles, couples, so like they don't care. So so

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that's that's what's going on. That's the real it's the

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root of it's that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 16: Right.

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Speaker 1: But then they act like, oh, the greatest thing, the

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most serious concern is young men becoming Orthodox. No, it's

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not gay bishops, it's not that kind of stuff. It's

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not trans stuff. It's ortho boros. Look, it's really simple. Okay.

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There's powerful people and powerful entities and foundations that put

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a lot of money into changing the attitudes of all

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the churches, including Orthodox Church and its jurisdictions. So what

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is the what is their problem person, Well, it's people

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that convert young straight men. They want to take the

375
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Orthodox Church into eventually being another type of Protestant liberal

376
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Episcopal church that accepts all the gay stuff. It's that simple.

377
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It's like, we're not it's not rocket. I'm not saying

378
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you're saying this, but like, what's happening. What do you

379
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:01,960
think it is? It's the same stuff that happened to

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the Protestant church in the Roman Caelloic church, right.

381
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Speaker 15: I mean, for the sake of metaphor. I'm not trying

382
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to cut anyone a devil, but the devil never shows

383
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up to you with his horns out right, So there's

384
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always this sort of weasly way in trying to get

385
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,920
you to think in a different way that's usually just

386
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censoring what you do.

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Speaker 2: Want to say, right, But to make a very long.

388
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Speaker 15: Story short, I decided to search about the OSA because

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they got.

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Speaker 2: To the point where everything.

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Speaker 15: That was the way that things were handled in private

392
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conversation the priest was always so easily and the way

393
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that the chat was moderated story too.

394
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Speaker 2: So I decided to search about.

395
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Speaker 15: OSA and what you actually said about that she thought it,

396
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And turns out that you actually engage in that priest

397
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directly twice.

398
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Speaker 2: His name is Fatter David Galloway.

399
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Speaker 1: And just to me, yeah, he's the priest that he's

400
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,000
the priest that was charging people for prayer on his Patreon.

401
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,200
So that tells you what that tells you what kind

402
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of people you're dealing with, right, It.

403
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Speaker 15: Was really hard, Like it was really it was painful

404
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,400
for me because I've been engaging with the men and

405
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accepting his spiritual guidance for a year and a half.

406
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I understand now, wolls have I been told that he

407
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had engagements. We viewed that like he publicly went out

408
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defending a humanism and I went to his tweeter page,

409
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and you know, I had a direct conversation with him

410
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before all.

411
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Speaker 2: Of this, and I told him, look, fudder. If there's

412
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one thing.

413
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Speaker 15: That I just don't accept is people using the term

414
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portal bro as an euphemism, because it's like they're not

415
00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:38,920
aware that there ones dividing the churches them.

416
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I mean he's the one that gave public lectures,

417
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,440
what actually me private lectures to all the priests five

418
00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:52,960
years ago saying avoid me at all costs. And then

419
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when that came, when that came out, it was a

420
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huge deal, and then everybody said that I was bad

421
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,160
because I called him out for privately telling all the

422
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,400
priests to avoid me. But the reason he does that

423
00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:06,759
is because he's told to do that by people like

424
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,640
Bishop Golitz and other people in the OCA. So it's

425
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,240
it's not even it's not all the OCA. It's just

426
00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:17,359
like certain bishops that are super acumenist. I mean, Bishop

427
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,160
Glitzen believes the Origin is a saint. So like if

428
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,440
people can't figure that out like Origin is not a saint.

429
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Speaker 2: Man.

430
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Speaker 1: If you think he's a saint, like you're not Orthodox.

431
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,039
It's that simple. But next question, thank you so much.

432
00:24:28,079 --> 00:24:29,880
I'm sorry having that trouble, but try to find a

433
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,359
better church. If you can, You're welcome to come to

434
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:31,759
our church.

435
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: Uh So, where is that?

436
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Speaker 15: Like, what's your Orlando recommendation or something nearby?

437
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: I don't know about Orlando. I'm just talking about Palm Coast,

438
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:42,000
which is probably too far, but.

439
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 15: I'll fire the Palm.

440
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: Coast was about an hour from Saint Nicholas. All right, next,

441
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,720
thank you though, next question, let's move on. Next question,

442
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:54,160
thanks man.

443
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a question when it comes to abortion.

444
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,200
So my question is what is the position of the.

445
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,519
Speaker 17: Church when it comes to a city considering the mom's

446
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:12,920
life like in danger, like during a pregnancy, like for example,

447
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,759
an embryo can get stuck at a slopean too.

448
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Speaker 1: And I don't know there are canon law people that

449
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,200
make there's there's actually people degrees and like bioethics, but

450
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I would assume it's still not acceptable. But I don't

451
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:33,160
actually know. I'm not a canon lawyer, don't. I mean,

452
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I'm saying like obviously we're pro life, but like, is

453
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:41,119
there some actenuating circumstance? I'm not sure. Father Deacon A.

454
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:46,240
Yas would know that better than me. Actually, there is

455
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:47,920
a book, by the way, excuse me, there is a

456
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,400
there's an Orthodox doctor that passed away. I've gone to

457
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,640
his conference several times. It's named after him. What is

458
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,079
that guy's name? And it would probably be in his book?

459
00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:00,640
He was a In fact, he was such a renowned

460
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:07,880
Christian bioethicists that he would consult the Vatican. What is

461
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,680
that guy's name? It's the It's the name of the

462
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:17,160
guy behind the Sophia conference. It's on the tip of

463
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,079
my tongue. Do you mind the chat? Know the renowned

464
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,039
Orthodox bioethicist. And he's actually kind of a pre sub

465
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,880
He wrote a book. It's kind of a presupositionalist critiquing

466
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,960
like natural theology and stuff. What is that guy's name?

467
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,640
By the way, If you guys would like and share,

468
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,319
we are doing a discord Q and A. Yeah, I'm

469
00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:43,799
not saying that all the OCA parishes are bad. It's

470
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:46,960
not at the Paris level. Usually that it's a problem.

471
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:51,200
Usually it's a select couple of bishops in the OCA

472
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:57,480
that are full on totally liberal. We've known that for years.

473
00:26:57,519 --> 00:27:00,400
In fact, other OCA priests have written essays and articles

474
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:12,799
against those people. So what I'll think about who that

475
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:17,000
that bioethicist says, Father Decanoniyas knows it because he knows

476
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:18,680
he used to go to there. He knows them personally,

477
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,200
the whole family and all of them. But all right,

478
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,599
who's next, Jake Amy?

479
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,039
Speaker 18: Yeah, so I got a question that I wouldn't know

480
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,200
readings the Areopagui and of course we all know that

481
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,799
he's really influential on like Maximus Paula Moss, you know,

482
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,359
the Mascus and even like like Thomas Aquinas. Right, but

483
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,680
then I receive with like you know, later traditions and

484
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,359
you know Italian human is, and then then later like

485
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,200
with with Luther, he's not the question of a lady

486
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:52,079
of Dionysius. But he was never really questioned by really

487
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,720
the Orthodoxia Christian world. So what are your thoughts on

488
00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:57,599
whether or not he's actually the Dionysius or whether it's

489
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,200
quote unquote Pseudoh.

490
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: There's a great article at Ortho Christian defending the veracity

491
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,640
of Dionysius. And by the way, that's another thing that

492
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,839
Bishop gilitz and his whole thesis is about Dynasian metaphysics.

493
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:15,279
And I tried when the one time I met him,

494
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:17,640
I asked him questions about this, and he just laughed

495
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,599
when I said, is it possible that he actually is

496
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,079
saying Dionysius? So what does that tell you?

497
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:36,599
Speaker 19: Let's see, No, it's not Sophia Institute.

498
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:38,319
Speaker 2: Uh.

499
00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:41,599
Speaker 1: The Dinasius article is written by about, by the way,

500
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,440
I think, an Anglican. So there's an Anglican that defends dynasty.

501
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:50,799
Orthrochristian crazually had one with them. He had a video

502
00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:52,839
with us and kind of evangelos. He has like a

503
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,319
book and the Bachelor has a really really good book

504
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,400
a defantas the historicity of Dinosius. It's called Indefensive Dynasty

505
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,119
and authorship by Reverend John Parker and Father Dmitri Stannyloy.

506
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,079
It's I think it's it's I read this years ago.

507
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,599
I read this actually before I went, and that Bishop

508
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,319
gilitzen to ask him questions.

509
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: Thank you?

510
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Who is the professor Tristan Inglehart? Thank you so much.

511
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:29,920
Murriah So the guy who wrote the book on Orthodox

512
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,160
bioethics and whatnot is doctor Tristan Inglehart, not Tristan Shandy

513
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:45,880
by the way, and he has since passed away, but

514
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:53,079
professor of history and Medicine at Rice University. That's that's

515
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:56,880
where all of our psyops and Ortho Rose are from.

516
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:05,119
Speaker 20: But this is him here, well, poor, we'll see that why,

517
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:05,799
I don't think.

518
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: And he was a solid Orthodox, uh professor. Who's next?

519
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: Hey jay yo?

520
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 20: Hello?

521
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: Hi?

522
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,559
Speaker 1: By the way, let me add that, Uh, there's been

523
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:29,119
more opposition to me coming out of the O c

524
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:31,599
A over the years than there ever was out of

525
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,440
go Arch. So even though I'm critical of go Art ecumenism,

526
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,000
like on the whole, like, they're not even half as

527
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:44,279
oppositional to what I talk about when I say, then

528
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:46,480
the o c A has been which is which is

529
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:48,920
quite curious. And I think this goes back to the

530
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,000
O c A with it with its relationship as a

531
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:55,839
CIA conduit for the State Department during the Cold War.

532
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,960
What's up, Hi?

533
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: This is kind of plugging you recently.

534
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 21: I don't know if you're familiar with this concept, but

535
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,839
I watched an old Pageo video from like three years

536
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,200
ago where he essentially says Santa Claus is real because

537
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:11,680
he has a list of attributes that can be universally

538
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,720
attributed to him. It led me a little bit because

539
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:16,559
it makes it seem like angels and demons are just

540
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,880
universal concepts and not persons that are real.

541
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:20,759
Speaker 2: Like you and I are real.

542
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,839
Speaker 21: Just wondering your thought on this, or if I'm misinterpreting Pagoe.

543
00:31:24,079 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what Pago meant by that, but I mean,

544
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:28,759
I usually argue that he's real because he's St. Nicholas,

545
00:31:28,839 --> 00:31:33,359
So but yeah, I mean, but I mean, maybe maybe

546
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,119
Pago is being nuanced and saying that there's different senses

547
00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:40,279
of reality into which things are real, Right, So just

548
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:43,799
because something is even an archetype doesn't mean that it's

549
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,279
not real. It might have a type of existence that's

550
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,720
unique or abstract or conceptual that's not identical to physical existence.

551
00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:57,359
But I certainly don't think Pago would deny that Sat

552
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,319
Nicholas was a person. In fact, I'm pretty sure he

553
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:01,240
believes up right.

554
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:04,119
Speaker 21: But the way he he he Santo was just kind

555
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,000
of an example he used.

556
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,319
Speaker 12: He also used the same example for like the Two Fairy.

557
00:32:07,079 --> 00:32:10,039
Speaker 21: And other like mythological beings, and that because they had

558
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:11,680
actually attributes.

559
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,079
Speaker 16: In the universe attribute.

560
00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:15,559
Speaker 21: To them, that they all get real, but I don't

561
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:18,319
if they're real in the same way that let's stay

562
00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:22,319
Staying is reel. It kind of breaks down the person

563
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,960
put angels and demons kind of make some flective deal

564
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:26,000
platonic concepts.

565
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: That's kind of what it feels like. We said something

566
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,400
like that. So maybe it's interpecting, but I'm not sure.

567
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:30,759
I don't know.

568
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:35,319
Speaker 1: I think Paja believes that angels.

569
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:41,319
Speaker 6: Okay, you just look at the lens and pass approaching

570
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:45,119
things from Peto is an artists and talking about the

571
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:50,799
realness of beauty and these other you know, universal concepts

572
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,559
like you're talking about. So he's not using real in

573
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:56,960
the same sense here as we move out, you know,

574
00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,640
staying and things like that, and Pas is coming out

575
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,920
this term of particular lens when he's talking about this

576
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,680
stuff of artistry, creativity, things like that.

577
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: That's where he's really good at. Okay, thank you.

578
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 21: Also, I watched a stream with Cleve last night, Cleave

579
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,799
Humantiquity with Father's Human the Young and Fathers of the Young.

580
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,400
I have I've never read the relation of Apostles, but

581
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,720
she says in his book that there's this beauty he

582
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:28,119
can kind of said a few. He says that Satan

583
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:32,279
and the devil are two distinct beings, and that when

584
00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:35,960
he talks about saying falling from heaven that it's a specific,

585
00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:38,920
distinct fault when the devil fell in the garden?

586
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: Beaton, Is that too sick.

587
00:33:42,119 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 21: Or I don't know.

588
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: I just thought that was interesting.

589
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: And I mean I don't yeah, I mean, I think

590
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,400
we have flexibility in Orthodox theology. I don't have a

591
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,759
problem with because a lot of what's going on with

592
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,000
the Divine Council and the angels, the Sons of God,

593
00:33:56,079 --> 00:33:58,599
the Nethlan, like, we're just not told a lot about

594
00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:01,880
all that, So it's going to involve a lot of speculation.

595
00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:04,279
And you notice that's why, you know, when you read

596
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:08,360
the Nicing Creed, Nephelim aren't in the Nicing Creed, right,

597
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360
So it's like, it's not it's not essential right to

598
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,280
know and have some like dogmatic opinion on that or

599
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,800
the exact you know, chronological events behind the fall and

600
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,280
all this stuff. So no, I don't think those are

601
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,440
big deals. I think those are you know, we it's

602
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,199
okay to speculate within the balances of Orthodoxy as long

603
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,880
as your speculation doesn't go too far.

604
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Yeah, good question. One more question.

605
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 7: I have a question on the oquosition of the Holy

606
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,440
Spirit by sersorrow.

607
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,159
Speaker 1: The what acquisition?

608
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: Okay, the quisition of the Holy Spirit.

609
00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: Just talk a little bit slower, man, I can't. It's

610
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,039
hard to hear what you're saying. Acquisition.

611
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: We're like on time.

612
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:48,159
Speaker 1: So, like.

613
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,519
Speaker 2: My question is he talks about how to.

614
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:53,519
Speaker 7: Acquired a voice spirit, which is like through alms giving

615
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,159
and through good works, right, But one thing that he said,

616
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:57,400
like kind of like towards.

617
00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: The book, the end of the book is.

618
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 7: Well, now that you have the Holy Spirit and you're praying,

619
00:35:03,159 --> 00:35:04,360
holy Spirit comes full in me.

620
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: It's like you're it's.

621
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 7: Like it's like a guest in your house, but like

622
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,199
you're still inviting them over. So like basically I was

623
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:14,119
confused about, like, Okay, so how do I know that

624
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:21,920
the Holy Spirit is thereas again?

625
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:25,679
Speaker 1: Uh, I mean, I think the way that we know

626
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960
is going to be by the fruits that are demonstrated.

627
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:29,159
Speaker 2: Right.

628
00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:32,119
Speaker 1: So Paul's talks about the fruits of the spirit our love, joy, piece, patients,

629
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:34,400
kind of goodness, and self control. So if we start

630
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,039
to see those in our life, that's how we know

631
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:37,199
that the Holy spirits in our life.

632
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,639
Speaker 2: So what's that have to do with like the stamp

633
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,159
that we have on our soul? Like, how does that?

634
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,000
How does that work? Like how does the grace of

635
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:49,360
God like?

636
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 7: Because like sometimes the grace of God like leaves us right,

637
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,000
so we can struggle in in the world, so we

638
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:54,639
can you know.

639
00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's not too it's not like a

640
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,639
physical like leaving. It's just like what we do as

641
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:05,239
we turn away. Well, I mean now, but I don't

642
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,440
nobody knows exactly how that works. So I'm not trying

643
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,280
to be rude, just.

644
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,079
Speaker 2: No. And that's and that's what I'm trying to get that.

645
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:15,159
Speaker 7: It's like, like, at what point do we say, I

646
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:16,039
don't know how this works.

647
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: I just accepted as it.

648
00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: Because that was at every point, I mean, the Orthodox theology,

649
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,199
you're always going to be saying that, like I don't

650
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,039
I I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't have a better question.

651
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:31,119
I just beyond what we're told in Divine Revelation about

652
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,960
you know, the fruits of the spirit. I don't really

653
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,480
know how to answer that question other than that if

654
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,800
you know, good tree bears good fruit, bad tree bears

655
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,119
bad fruit, because.

656
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 7: That's like the kind of like the one of the

657
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,239
Calvinists of Calvinist friends and they're like, okay, like, how

658
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,880
do you know how you have the first ribble?

659
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: And they say, because I do good works and a

660
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,039
good tree.

661
00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:53,559
Speaker 1: Can Okay, well, but this is within the context of

662
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:56,159
the Orthodox Faith. So the reason this doesn't work for

663
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,519
a Calvinist is because, well, we don't believe that you

664
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:02,280
have the duell of the Holy Spirit. You know, you

665
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,400
might have influences of the Holy Spirit and certain graces

666
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,000
that are moving you in the direction of what's right,

667
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:12,480
but you can have not you can have certain sort

668
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:15,599
of natural virtues, but not necessarily theosis. You're only going

669
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,079
to find theosis in the sacrament. The Orthodox Church.

670
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 7: No, that's understandable because like again like one of my

671
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,119
my friends they lost their child, like the kid during childbirth,

672
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:32,000
and you know, the struggle they went through like was

673
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:35,400
like was was humongous, right and well, but they had

674
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,360
so much grace and so they're like, well, how do

675
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,960
I how do you explain this to me? Like I'm

676
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,000
not in the church. I don't like like you know,

677
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,800
like I we exhibited these good fruits like of like

678
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,440
not forsaking.

679
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: God like, so so for me, it was like very

680
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:49,239
hard to.

681
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 7: Answer answer that to him, like, Okay, you don't have

682
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,119
the Holy Spirit, and I could not have said that

683
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:56,960
if you want to have this conversation here.

684
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: But that's what basically, Yeah, that's I'm sorry.

685
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,559
Speaker 1: I don't I wish I had better answers, but that's

686
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:03,960
as far as I can say. All right, who's next.

687
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,440
I appreciate it, Thank you, go ahead.

688
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 16: I have a really good question.

689
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 7: Does doesn't have ontological existence or it doesn't have ontology

690
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,239
at all?

691
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 4: No?

692
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:21,519
Speaker 22: Okay, thank you, Hey, what's up?

693
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 23: Okay, So the first question will be about philosophy. I'm

694
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,800
interested if we can view certain carcivours works through Orthodox lens.

695
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:37,039
Speaker 1: Yeah. Quite a few Orthodox theologians thinkers think that he's

696
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,719
one of the most of the secular philosophers or whatever

697
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,119
non Orthodox like, he's very close to sure, I've done

698
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:49,320
several talks. I've done several talks on character.

699
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I was thinking.

700
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,679
Speaker 23: Also, I can give you his idea of the night

701
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,000
to face through the Orthodox lens.

702
00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, I would just be leary of the dark

703
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,360
Knight of the soul. Tennanc Is to get to Roman

704
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:09,159
Catholic with it. But yeah, next question, I.

705
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:14,599
Speaker 2: Mean I have another one if well, it's about few politics.

706
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 23: We all know that Zelenski got was in the Andora papers.

707
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,920
Do you think that he the series that was circulated

708
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:31,800
that that was circulating in the Ukrainian media before he

709
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:32,679
even got elected?

710
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 2: You know the hole stick.

711
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 23: Uh, some random school teachert from Ukraine got het up

712
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,599
with the oligarchs and he randomly gets elected. Do you

713
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:44,800
think that that series with some kind.

714
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,639
Speaker 1: Of sigh up is that the TV show he was

715
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:48,239
on or something?

716
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 21: Yeah?

717
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually they'll pick people for politics to

718
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:57,599
play a certain role if they had some degree of acting.

719
00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:01,559
I mean Ronald Reagan, Arnold's or Senegger. Acting is a

720
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:04,920
good preparatory phase for politics because politics is just Hollywood

721
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,599
for ugly people.

722
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, that's quoted. Thanks you.

723
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. Who's next? Remember, guys, after my hour

724
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,519
here we will move over to X space and I'll

725
00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:22,119
answer some of the super chats that have come in

726
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,880
as well. But no, we're not done. It's just this

727
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,920
is discord Q and A. And then in the discord, uh,

728
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:33,800
the other former moderators Kai from Orthodox Shahada, David Rhan

729
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,119
is supposed to come in as well. All the Old

730
00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:41,119
School Classic twenty seventeen eighteen Discord bros Lewis perhaps as well,

731
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:43,440
are going to be back in the discord answering your questions.

732
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,000
I will continue answering questions over on X in the

733
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:51,519
X space in a moment. What's up, man, Who's next?

734
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 24: Hey, j Hey, I've got an a Mason question for you.

735
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,119
Speaker 1: Okay.

736
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 24: So I was recently at a Protestant church with a

737
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,000
pastor who was at one point as member of the

738
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:09,039
Church of Satan, and then he was a Jew and

739
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:13,239
a Freemason, and now he's a pastor. I'm sure you

740
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,320
can see why I'm no longer at that church. He

741
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,000
was kind of crazy, and it's you.

742
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: The secret is that it was actually you. You're the pastor. Yeah, exactly,

743
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,559
I'm just joking. Go ahead.

744
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 25: So he was he was.

745
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 24: A thirty second degree Freemason, and if you asked him

746
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,360
about Freemasonry, he would just say like, oh, it was

747
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,920
just a club of old dudes that wanted to get

748
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,079
away from their families.

749
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,519
Speaker 1: I mean, at the local level, yeah, that's kind of

750
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:44,119
what it ends up being. But at the at the national,

751
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:47,199
international level, at these higher degrees you're talking about, you know,

752
00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:52,039
British intelligence, you're talking about royal society, et cetera.

753
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:55,199
Speaker 24: Yeah, so that's kind of what my question was. With

754
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:57,920
all being all the way up at the thirty second degree,

755
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,079
do you think that he's really left.

756
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of thirty second degree people who don't

757
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,000
know anything and who are idiots, because it's the invitation

758
00:42:10,119 --> 00:42:12,639
to d C at the thirty third degree, which is

759
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:16,360
invite only, that is where you really start to learn stuff.

760
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,880
So I mean, I know, a thirty second degree freemason

761
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:25,039
doesn't know anything. So it's possible also that it's possible

762
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:28,000
that he's ignorant and just blind, or it's possible that

763
00:42:28,039 --> 00:42:30,920
he's also a subversive to both both things can be true.

764
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 24: Yeah, because another thing I'll say is he has a

765
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,480
bunch of interesting connections. He's a pilot, and he used

766
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,079
to fly for the Walton family, and he.

767
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,199
Speaker 1: Well, they were in the depression. How did they have

768
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,760
money for an airplane in the depression? What nobody gets

769
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,599
to see how old are you? You're young, right, yeah?

770
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:54,159
Speaker 5: Twenty one?

771
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty If you just muted, twenty one year olds

772
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,480
are not going to get my jokes about the Waltons.

773
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:01,719
The Waltons was a TV show when I was a kid,

774
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,280
and they're they're a depression there. They're exactly, They're a

775
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,280
depression era family. And I'm like, how would they have

776
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,159
an airplane? It's a dumb joke. I know you're you're

777
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:12,599
talking about Walmart. I got it.

778
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 24: Yeah, yeah, And and he, I mean I know that

779
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,280
he flew them to like World Economic Forum.

780
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: And Boheman Grove and stuff like this.

781
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:24,679
Speaker 24: He he kind of had some interesting connections with that too.

782
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's all. That's all.

783
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: My question was, Yeah, no good questions. Yeah, I would

784
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,199
avoid these kind of like creeper, weird Protestant evangelical pastors.

785
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:37,480
A Right, guys, we will be doing consistent discord Q

786
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:42,000
and a's very soon, very regularly, so look forward to that.

787
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,239
And I think Kai and Lewis and David are going

788
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,199
to be in here today doing the rest of it.

789
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,679
But for the rest of you on YouTube and over

790
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,840
here on X we will start my X space in

791
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,320
a second and we will continue the chat. If you

792
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,800
are on X, do do do Do Do Do Do

793
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,800
Do Do do do do do do I do need

794
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,639
to refresh my coffee so give me one second to

795
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:13,840
get the the Wigger space going here. I'm gonna start

796
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,039
calling it the Wigger space because we figured out the

797
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:20,199
Wizantine Empire. And uh, I'll show you what I'm talking about.

798
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,639
What you're talking about, man, what you're talking about. I'm

799
00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:27,480
talling about this right here. T A m b O

800
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:33,480
T tom about I'm talking about. Well, we talked about

801
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,719
wigger byzantheum wyzantheum. Okay, I want to see little little

802
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,719
john goblets clutched. I want to see lakers hats. I'm

803
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,880
talking about the Wizantine Empire. Son, That's what I'm talking about. There,

804
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,000
it is right there. I told you we was gonna

805
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,920
do it. Okay, I gotta go refresh my coffee. And

806
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:02,039
we have sponsors that I must tell you about. Let's

807
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:06,039
see sponsors. Where's the spon here we go. Sponsors is

808
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:08,599
over here, and then we're going to start the space.

809
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 14: I'm gonna put you on something crazy real quick. Most

810
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,159
of these zoomer Jimbros are consuming macro guzzling synthetic dyes

811
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,880
and synthetic sweeteners on the daily. They don't even know it.

812
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:25,400
Goofy af. There's nothing great about that do not listen

813
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,159
any further unless you are an Alpha or Sigma male.

814
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,320
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815
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,000
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816
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818
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819
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827
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828
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829
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831
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835
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two scoops of our fine powder into water, or providing

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842
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Speaker 26: I want to show off something that we're all proud of.

843
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,639
I got a browser here. This is Jay Dyers, much vaunted,

844
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,000
much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he just

845
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,280
got this page up. We are just testing it out.

846
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,519
You guys are some of the first people in the

847
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:33,199
world to see it. I want to say, for my part,

848
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,920
it's not philosophy.

849
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 4: One oh one. I think this is as mistitling.

850
00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 26: I really think is as like philosophy unleashed because a

851
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,400
philosophy want on one course, they give you kind of

852
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,280
some useless information that you can't make sense of. Jay

853
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,880
actually lays out over twelve weeks, dozens and dozens of

854
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,880
hours put into just the presentation of this, let alone

855
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,119
the hundreds and thousands of hours of research that it

856
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:58,840
takes to have a coherent evolution and history of the

857
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,679
origins of philosophy, the use is of philosophy, the different

858
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,519
ways to look at it over time, and how that

859
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:07,960
has been brought about to what we have today, which

860
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,320
is almost an absence of philosophy on the objective, logic

861
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,360
and reason side, in an overabundance of woke philosophy that

862
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:18,719
is irrational and is made up day by day as

863
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,320
people are like, I think we should bring racism back,

864
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,079
and then here's the justification, and then it gets wokeified

865
00:48:24,079 --> 00:48:26,280
and spread out, and then all of a sudden you

866
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,480
have a bunch of communist socialist ideas where you become

867
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,840
the property in action. You need to be able to

868
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,559
stand on your own ground. It helps to have a

869
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:38,119
foundation in philosophy because it's a method define truth. When

870
00:48:38,119 --> 00:48:40,519
you get down to it, Philosophy is there because you

871
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:43,079
love truth enough to go and learn how to find it,

872
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:46,920
because it's valuable. So if you're interested in things like that,

873
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,000
there is the landing page. We'll link it up into notes.

874
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,519
It is a longer once, so we'll get a shorter

875
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,039
URL for this. I'm sure Jay has a link on

876
00:48:55,079 --> 00:48:56,840
his page. I just wanted to show it off. Now

877
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,519
you know it exists, you can go look for it

878
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,239
and see why this it's not your father's philosophy, right,

879
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,960
So well done. I'm proud of everyone who helped to

880
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:08,559
produce and edit the course, and of course you had

881
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:11,719
did a flawless job in presenting the course over those

882
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,440
twelve weeks.

883
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,639
Speaker 4: And he's a juggernaut.

884
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. We're gonna talk about and hopefully

885
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:26,400
this workaround for the obs issue seems to decently work

886
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:34,440
a little bit kind of. I'll be taking your X

887
00:50:34,639 --> 00:51:02,039
questions about on a welcome back back. All right, let's

888
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:03,400
see who's next in the line. We got a couple

889
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:15,159
of super chotts. I'll read those first hush tones makes

890
00:51:15,199 --> 00:51:16,920
a joke, he says, how do we get from fasting

891
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,920
to tag? Gabe K When you first got into philosophy,

892
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,400
did world views frighten you. Did you get philosophical vertigo,

893
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:31,320
nihilism and existential elk theory terrify me? I like the

894
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:39,360
way you think. No, it never really terrified me. Yes,

895
00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:44,599
you can call in on X what's up my wizzas

896
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:51,159
all my wizan teine wiggas Haley's in the chat. Five

897
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:55,400
dollars are a coda. Two dollars you need some lotion,

898
00:51:55,599 --> 00:52:02,559
you crack in shoe desire five dollars. The Vatican website

899
00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:08,360
is down for everybody right now. Well, that's interesting because

900
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,920
I don't know if you guys saw what Leo said.

901
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,840
What's Leo's most recent.

902
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 20: Gaff kail primre intlemento.

903
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: He said that all the no stratat stuff about Judaism

904
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:38,119
holds Jews, repeating all the stuff that John Paul the

905
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,840
second said, Jews have a covenant, don't try to convert Jews, etcetera.

906
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,480
All the same stuff is repeated. But then there's another one,

907
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:49,159
that is, where's the other one at the world needs

908
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:52,719
more than ever the powerful witness of all the religions

909
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:59,760
living together in unity. So every time I talk about

910
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,280
this orthodoxy in the religion in the future right here,

911
00:53:03,079 --> 00:53:09,360
as Tallahassee. Patriots said, one more religion being promoted by

912
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:16,000
the papacy. There you go, h oh kis of that?

913
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:18,559
We'll go to you in just one second. Brian says,

914
00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:21,760
start dollars. How can I prove the chair, uh, the chair,

915
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,079
that Thom isn't he? Hold on a second, how can

916
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:29,719
I prove from the chair that Thoma hasn't teachers created grace? Catholics?

917
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,719
Just ask chat gpt.

918
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 16: Are we there?

919
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:33,599
Speaker 5: Are we here?

920
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: Go ahead, go ahead, zay to hole. What's up? I'm

921
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,440
mute zahle yeah, can hear me?

922
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:02,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

923
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:02,679
Speaker 27: I have a question.

924
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 2: A Muslim asked me.

925
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,199
Speaker 21: If the father knows he's the father, but the son

926
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,599
does not know he's the father, does that mean that

927
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,639
the son does not have the same knowledge as the

928
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,239
father because the son.

929
00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 14: Is not the father.

930
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 2: No.

931
00:54:17,519 --> 00:54:20,639
Speaker 1: They all are aware of each other and themselves and

932
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:21,440
their identity.

933
00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: So is the son aware he's the father?

934
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:28,599
Speaker 1: Well, the son is aware of false propositions, but that

935
00:54:28,679 --> 00:54:31,239
doesn't mean that he is the father. So, for example,

936
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:37,039
you could say, answer, just let me answer the question.

937
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 16: Man.

938
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 1: There's a helpful distinction in medieval philosophy about this. For example,

939
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,039
if we say, is uh is God omniscient?

940
00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 2: Yes?

941
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,119
Speaker 1: Okay? Does God know what it is to not exist?

942
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,880
Does God know what it is to be a bat? No,

943
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:04,760
in the same way that God knows of lying, God

944
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,159
doesn't know what it's like to be a liar. Right,

945
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,159
So this is a false notion of what omniscience is.

946
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:14,199
So it's the paradigm itself and God himself that determines

947
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,880
what the meaning of omniscience is. So you can't bring

948
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,719
in extra system definitions of what omniscience is and then

949
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,239
try to say, oh, can God pick up a rock

950
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,079
that is bigger than himself? If not, then he's not omnipotent. See,

951
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:29,599
it's a trick question because in the paradigm, in the

952
00:55:29,639 --> 00:55:33,320
whole worldview, for example, God can't lie. Paul says, it

953
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,599
is impossible for God to lie. Oh, I guess he's

954
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:38,280
not all powerful. Well, what it means to be all

955
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,519
powerful will be conditioned by God's nature. So no, he

956
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:44,280
can't do all kinds of things that would be against

957
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,960
his nature. Likewise, he can't know a bunch of things

958
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,280
that would go against omniscience, if that makes sense. So

959
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,559
the paradigm conditions and determines the omnies. It's a very

960
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,400
I'm not faulting you, but when Muslim's ass that is

961
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,599
a very reddit to your thing. I mean, you could

962
00:56:00,639 --> 00:56:02,960
just ask the Muslim like, what can all all be

963
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:06,440
in time and space? No he can't. Oh so then

964
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,880
he's not on the men of the West. What's up man?

965
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 28: Ja yep, hey, I had a weird question about let's see,

966
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:24,400
Joe politics, the Havara Agreement or the transfer agreement.

967
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,679
Speaker 2: When you bring it up, see I you're you're right.

968
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:29,840
A lot of people don't know about that.

969
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 28: I learned about it a few years ago. What it

970
00:56:33,079 --> 00:56:35,840
meant to me hearing about that for the first time

971
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:40,599
was Okay, everything I know about, you know, h Man

972
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:43,039
is not true.

973
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:43,519
Speaker 25: He wasn't.

974
00:56:43,679 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 28: He wasn't just just this bloodthirsty guy that was trying to.

975
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,079
Speaker 2: You know, kill kill.

976
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 28: Jays at every at the drop of the hat, every.

977
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: Chance that he could.

978
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,119
Speaker 28: What I guess explain from my dumb brain, like, what

979
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,559
is the point that you like last time I heard

980
00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:00,239
you bring it up?

981
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: We like, what is the what is the big point

982
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,960
that you were trying to say about? You know, nobody

983
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:08,559
knows about the transfer agreement?

984
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 28: All right, We're we trying to say that you know

985
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,719
like Hitler was the the just just.

986
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,199
Speaker 2: The Hitler was the reason that Israel exists today.

987
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,639
Speaker 1: And yes he is. Yes, he has a big part

988
00:57:19,719 --> 00:57:23,119
of that dialectic because without what he did, there would

989
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:24,880
not have been the recognition of the Nation State of

990
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,719
Israel in nineteen forty eight by the United Nations. So yes,

991
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,159
he played a dialectical role, not just to destroy Europe

992
00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:36,159
and to wreck the remnants of Christian civilization in other

993
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:39,639
countries like Russia, but also he played the dialectical role

994
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,960
of aiding and being the excuse for the established from

995
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,119
the nation state of Israel. And that's not from me,

996
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,800
that's from I mean, that's the I agree with this

997
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,599
thesis basically, but that's from people like Michael Hoffman as well,

998
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:53,480
the famous Roman Catholic.

999
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,679
Speaker 28: Okay, So your opinion was that he he did that knowing, like,

1000
00:57:58,159 --> 00:57:58,760
not just that he.

1001
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: Was used and then he Uh no, I didn't. I'd

1002
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,519
never said that, Okay. I said that he was double

1003
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:08,119
crossed by the British, he was goaded into attacking and

1004
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:11,519
told that he had secret support by the British. Just

1005
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:13,639
read the chapters and Tragy and Hope on this. Read

1006
00:58:13,679 --> 00:58:17,559
Anthony Sutton's trilogy, read Guido Preparada, all these different books

1007
00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:22,559
that have that thesis. Okay, thanks, and if you disagree,

1008
00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:23,800
you're welcome to tell me. Look what.

1009
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:26,519
Speaker 19: I just didn't know.

1010
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,559
Speaker 28: Exactly what the point that you were that you were

1011
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:29,000
getting at.

1012
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: But okay, I think I I go what you're saying.

1013
00:58:32,159 --> 00:58:32,440
Thank you.

1014
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they wanted as quickly says, two world

1015
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:43,079
wars to wreck and to you know, basically exhaust the

1016
00:58:43,159 --> 00:58:50,000
two rivals to the Anglo American Zionist establishment. Catherine, what's up?

1017
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,719
By the way, guys, remember that we will be uh

1018
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,639
doing a book signing tomorrow. Oh let me ask it.

1019
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,760
So the question about Roman Catholic teaching on where how

1020
00:58:58,800 --> 00:58:59,760
do we know it's created?

1021
00:58:59,800 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: Great?

1022
00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: I wrote a whole essay on this. It's in my

1023
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,480
red book. It's been up here for a decade. It's

1024
00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:12,480
right here. You can see. I'm the famous traditional Catholic

1025
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:13,960
systematic theologian.

1026
00:59:14,039 --> 00:59:14,199
Speaker 4: Lude.

1027
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:17,679
Speaker 1: We got sanctivine grace as they created supernatural gift really

1028
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:25,760
distinct from God. Supernatural grace a participation of the divine nature.

1029
00:59:26,639 --> 00:59:29,360
One in five are contradiction. What's up, Cavin?

1030
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: Hey, d can I ask a question about original sin? So?

1031
00:59:36,159 --> 00:59:39,159
Speaker 29: I get these Orthodox guys who come into my comments

1032
00:59:39,639 --> 00:59:43,079
under my posts and they get super super like actually

1033
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:48,239
original sin versus ancestral sin. And I was bringing up

1034
00:59:48,239 --> 00:59:51,480
the Orthodox view of ancestral sin that we inherit the

1035
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:54,719
effects of Adam sin, but not the guilty of Adam Sin.

1036
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:57,480
And I don't know if this is a super Augustinian,

1037
00:59:57,679 --> 01:00:01,039
like hyper Augustinian view that they have encountered these people

1038
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:02,639
who are like, well, they.

1039
01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:06,239
Speaker 1: Pull up, yeah, I have a Moscow Yes, I have

1040
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:11,639
a three hour talk on this right here, go ahead.

1041
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 29: Okay, yeah, because they will quote the Catechism of Saint

1042
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,039
Philert of Moscow and like all these things who say

1043
01:00:17,639 --> 01:00:20,960
that we do transgress through Adam making it.

1044
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but sometimes the word transgression is used as a

1045
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,679
descript or of our state of being. It's not talking

1046
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,119
about actual violation of Adams or actual violation of the

1047
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:35,760
divine law. Because what sin is an infant actually guilty of.

1048
01:00:36,239 --> 01:00:38,559
And so they don't even realize that there's nobody that

1049
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:42,880
even teaches this anymore except for Calvinists and Lutherans. Nobody

1050
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,960
in the world Ruman Catholics don't hold to original guilt.

1051
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,760
And that there's my three hour talk on it right there,

1052
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,239
put it in the chat. Okay, who's next, let's see.

1053
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,159
Thank you for that question, Catherine. But yeah, we been

1054
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:02,519
combating this for years. This was a talk I did

1055
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,079
almost four years ago. What's up?

1056
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,199
Speaker 2: Hey, what sub jeck?

1057
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?

1058
01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:14,639
Speaker 30: I received the question a while ago from a friend.

1059
01:01:15,159 --> 01:01:18,559
He's Lutheran, and so I wanted to make sure that

1060
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:19,920
I had the understanding right.

1061
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:22,039
Speaker 2: It was about and if you have a video on this,

1062
01:01:22,159 --> 01:01:25,440
feel free to disappoint me to it. But asked it's a.

1063
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 30: Classic question about the break of communion in the different

1064
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:37,760
Orthodox patriarchs currently, where like his point was, well, you

1065
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:39,840
need to make sure you know which is the true

1066
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,719
church still, is that the Greek Church or the ro

1067
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,800
Court Church where maybe it's a different church and they're

1068
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,960
all wrong right now, because the church is what supplies

1069
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:51,000
you with the grace necessary for salvation. So if the

1070
01:01:51,079 --> 01:01:54,199
Greeks are in the wrong right now, then you taking

1071
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,119
the sacraments at a Greek church would actually be ineffective

1072
01:01:58,159 --> 01:01:59,440
and you're not really saved and your.

1073
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: Outside that's not art. We have a canonical process. Breaking

1074
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,639
communion doesn't mean that there's automatically no grace it's only

1075
01:02:05,679 --> 01:02:08,920
at the point when there's excommunication. That's the orthodox canonical view.

1076
01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:11,960
That does not happen yet, so nobody believes that he's

1077
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,719
just importing his own strong man position.

1078
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 30: Yeah, so I was gonna say that's more of like

1079
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,039
a donutest position, right, or like they would immediately lose

1080
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:23,079
pre community or something.

1081
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:24,239
Speaker 1: Correct.

1082
01:02:25,719 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 2: Cool, that's all I happened.

1083
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, good question, Thank you. Also, I mean, if breaks

1084
01:02:32,679 --> 01:02:38,599
in communion disqualify the church, then the first thousand years,

1085
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,880
the mini breaks in communion amongst various patriarchs, means that

1086
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,480
the Roman Catholic Church is not the true church. In

1087
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:48,320
other words, if you believe that the church of the

1088
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,079
first thousand years is the Roman Catholic Church, and if

1089
01:02:51,159 --> 01:02:53,840
breaking communion then means that that's a sign of a

1090
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,760
false church, then you've just disqualified the first thousand years

1091
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,000
of Christianity. So it's a really stupid argument. They don't

1092
01:03:00,159 --> 01:03:02,679
think this out. Every time we have these debates with

1093
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:04,760
the Roman Catholics and they make that line of arugmentation

1094
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,719
and we bring this up, they never get it. Kyle,

1095
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:14,559
what's up, Hi Jay.

1096
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 31: How's it going.

1097
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 32: I recently converted to Roman Catholicism, I've been listening to

1098
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,119
your Talks podcast for about two weeks.

1099
01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:24,199
Speaker 2: Just had a quick question.

1100
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 32: Since you were Roman Catholic as well, I am looking

1101
01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:31,039
at attending in an Orthodox church.

1102
01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:33,679
Speaker 2: What is your version?

1103
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,519
Speaker 32: What is your experience about like knowing like you're in

1104
01:03:38,599 --> 01:03:42,760
a state of race kind of like because examination of

1105
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,079
conscience versus like Roman Catholicism versus Orthodox.

1106
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot less legalistic. There's not a giant

1107
01:03:51,559 --> 01:03:54,159
list of mortal sins and menial sins. That's all a

1108
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,559
later Latin development. So I think you're going to find

1109
01:03:58,599 --> 01:04:01,480
it to be a much more of a saying healing

1110
01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:06,679
process then the sort of mechanical approach.

1111
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:10,719
Speaker 2: I just wanted to.

1112
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 33: Say, I'm completely on your side in this matter, but

1113
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:15,800
I don't know if you knew.

1114
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: You might already know this. You know Alex Smalpass has

1115
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:19,199
been talking shit about you.

1116
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't care, but thank you very No.

1117
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 33: No, I want to say, yeah, he responded to that

1118
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,639
your thang on h on the Piers Morgan Show and

1119
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,400
was like calling your sudo intellectical and stuff like that.

1120
01:04:33,559 --> 01:04:35,239
Speaker 1: But basically.

1121
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:39,239
Speaker 33: He I think he's one of the strongest atheist debaters

1122
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:41,840
because he has PhD in philosophy, but at the same

1123
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:46,639
time his he believes that somehow got loved Frega's platonism

1124
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,440
can justify some kind of moral position, which I think

1125
01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:54,599
is just completely ridiculous. Do you plan on debating him again?

1126
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,440
Because the first debate I think was kind of a

1127
01:04:58,039 --> 01:04:59,000
it wasn't the best.

1128
01:04:59,079 --> 01:05:02,239
Speaker 1: Yeah and ended quick. I don't really, I mean, I

1129
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,800
don't really have any interest in debating a woke professor.

1130
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,039
If people want to follow a woke atheist, go for it. JB.

1131
01:05:07,119 --> 01:05:09,880
Pilt five dollars. When people quote at me like and

1132
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,639
it's an authority, I'm just confused. It's also I'm not

1133
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,159
just confused as an insult. They think that that's good enough. Yeah,

1134
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:21,039
we're nentering into this hyper anti intellectual period, and it's

1135
01:05:21,079 --> 01:05:25,519
hyper anti intellectual because that's part of the cy warp.

1136
01:05:27,159 --> 01:05:29,719
I covered this on my Twitter the other day. I

1137
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,599
talked about NATO psyops and how a lot of this

1138
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,559
is being allowed. A bunch of groypers came at me

1139
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:38,719
and tell me how awful I was, and then Nick

1140
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,360
said that basically the same thing. So even if I

1141
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,000
say the correct things, if I say it, it's bad.

1142
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,599
But if Nick says it. It's good because Nick says it,

1143
01:05:46,719 --> 01:05:48,800
But this is showing you that it has nothing to

1144
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,360
do with what's true. It's really just about culti personality,

1145
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:57,039
and really that's just bad for those guys. I mean,

1146
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,800
you know, you can pretend all day long the papacy

1147
01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:04,239
is based in trad but everybody in the world knows

1148
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,119
that it's not. They deep down know that Leo's out

1149
01:06:08,159 --> 01:06:10,599
here saying open borders every day. That jomp All the

1150
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,800
second says Jews have a separate covenant with God, and

1151
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,679
you don't use in the Catholic Bishop Conference in two

1152
01:06:17,719 --> 01:06:20,800
thousand and three says don't try to convert Jews. Everybody

1153
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,320
knows this, and you guys can keep pretending all you want.

1154
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,199
It only hurts you in the long run. It doesn't

1155
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:31,679
affect me. You're not winning by pretending and lying to yourselves.

1156
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:33,760
You don't get any I mean, what are you going

1157
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:42,039
to get out of that? Vato? What's up? JB. Piltier?

1158
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:46,800
The mic was tweaking. Hopefully it's fixed now if I

1159
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,119
do the work around some of those words. David Murdoch

1160
01:06:50,239 --> 01:06:52,400
twenty dollars. I saw weapons. I liked it. I'm trying

1161
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:56,599
to figure out Orthodox literature about demons and sorcery or

1162
01:06:56,719 --> 01:07:00,760
the divine consuming essences. What about City of God? I mean,

1163
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,559
See of God talks about some of that. I mean,

1164
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,840
there's just not really like an Orthodox book that I'm

1165
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:10,360
aware of on demonic activity and exorcism types of except

1166
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,639
you could look at like Father Sara from Roses Orthodox

1167
01:07:13,719 --> 01:07:15,719
in the religion in the future, some of the monastic

1168
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:17,239
literature goes into that. Bato, I'm you.

1169
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: All right, You're so. I have a textual question.

1170
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 34: In Second Thessalonians, Chapter two, verse one through eight, would

1171
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:32,360
you say that that particular passage has been fulfilled in

1172
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:32,880
the past.

1173
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: I believe in a dual fulfillment, so I think that

1174
01:07:39,239 --> 01:07:43,000
the immediate fulfillment is seventy eight d with the High Priest,

1175
01:07:45,519 --> 01:07:48,920
the Jewish High Priest in the alliance with Rome the Beast.

1176
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,119
So if you read the Book of Revelation, the whore

1177
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,599
is Israel, as the prophets always called Israel the whore.

1178
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,800
It even says that the whore is that is where

1179
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,800
our the place where our Lord was crucified in the apocalypse.

1180
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,559
So that tells you that it's Israel. So the High

1181
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:07,880
Priest is dressed in the garments and the ritual outfit

1182
01:08:08,599 --> 01:08:12,400
that befits actually the horror of Babylon in Book of Revelation.

1183
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,840
And John is thus in concert with all the Old

1184
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,319
Testament prophets who speak of Israel in that way, especially

1185
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:23,279
like Hoseiah. And by the way, God says in Hoseiah

1186
01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:25,239
that He's going to divorce Israel. So when was that

1187
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,359
prophecy fulfilled if not seventy a d That's what I

1188
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,520
was saying to all these dispensations. So I think that

1189
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,640
there will be a future in times man of lawlessness,

1190
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,199
and this is usually how the Patristic exegesis goes, that

1191
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,840
that will be some sort of future temple with some

1192
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:43,680
sort of Antichrist that dupes the Jews.

1193
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

1194
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 34: I guess my follow up question would be because they're

1195
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,279
in that passage, it says that the lawless man would

1196
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:55,279
be destroyed by the coming of the Lord. And Paul

1197
01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:59,119
is picking up Insect and Thessalonians where he previously discussed

1198
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:01,640
in his First Letter, and in his first Letter in

1199
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,159
chapter four he talks about that at the coming of

1200
01:09:04,199 --> 01:09:06,119
the Lord they would be raised from the dead. So

1201
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:09,199
how would you say that people the saints had come

1202
01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:11,560
out of sleep in a duel in.

1203
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,279
Speaker 1: A I mean, have you read the end of the

1204
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:15,880
Book of Matthew where it says the saints at christ

1205
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,800
Resurrection were walking around Israel.

1206
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, but Paul wrote that after that occurred.

1207
01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. But what I'm saying is what's mentioned in First

1208
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,279
Thessalonians isn't a rapture. It's talking about the resurrection at

1209
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:34,520
the end of the world. So there's a coming in

1210
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,039
Judgment in seventy eight D, which Jesus talks about in

1211
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:39,399
Luke twenty one when he says Israel will be surrounded

1212
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,399
by enemies, the Temple will be destroyed. Luke twenty one

1213
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,039
is explicit. He's talking about people in that generation. They

1214
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:48,359
would see that forty years later it happened. So that's

1215
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:49,960
all a type of what happens at the end of

1216
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,560
the world. Because the temple is a type of the

1217
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,319
universe and the earth right, so when it's destroyed, that

1218
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,960
is a symbol of the eschatological destruction of the Union

1219
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:02,720
Verse at the conflagration and at the Great White Throne,

1220
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:04,000
judgment of the resurrection.

1221
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 16: And all that.

1222
01:10:05,279 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me see if I'm understanding.

1223
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: Look, before we get to this, are you aware that

1224
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,199
many times in the prophets, like Isaiah nineteen or Ezekiel

1225
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:16,880
early on, it talks about God coming and judgment in

1226
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,199
the clouds against Egypt against Babylon. Yeah, okay, so that's

1227
01:10:21,359 --> 01:10:23,039
the coming of judgment in seventy e D.

1228
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

1229
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,079
Speaker 34: And I guess my follow up question is, and I

1230
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:29,399
just don't I want to make.

1231
01:10:29,319 --> 01:10:31,359
Speaker 2: Sure that I understand you correctly.

1232
01:10:31,399 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: That's fine.

1233
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:36,239
Speaker 34: So you're saying that there was a so the resurrection

1234
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:40,800
of First Thessalonians chapter four was fulfilled.

1235
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,319
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that it's primarily and First Essalonians talking

1236
01:10:45,359 --> 01:10:48,319
about the end of the world. But there are signifiers

1237
01:10:48,399 --> 01:10:51,720
and types and signs of that even beforehand. In seventy

1238
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:55,079
a d. The first resurrection, according to the Book of Revelation,

1239
01:10:55,319 --> 01:10:59,399
is baptism, So everybody's participating in the first resurrection through

1240
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:02,479
being baptisted. The second resurrection is at the end of

1241
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,399
the world, when all the bodies are joined back to

1242
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:04,960
the souls.

1243
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,079
Speaker 34: And I guess the difficulty that I'm having an understanding

1244
01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:13,560
that is in second because you say that in Second

1245
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,399
Thessalonians chapter two, verse one through eight, that that was

1246
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,359
fulfilled in a partial way.

1247
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,199
Speaker 1: But that is the same company you're missing under. You know,

1248
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,439
you misunderstand what I'm saying. Man, I'm not saying that

1249
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:29,560
it's a mirrored event. It's not partially fulfilled, like half

1250
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,520
of it's fulfilled and then the other half is later

1251
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,960
fulfilled the end of the world. All of these events

1252
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,560
that are happening in the Book of Acts up to

1253
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,840
the time of seventy a d. They're a spiritual and

1254
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:44,279
a physical, small typological fulfillment of what happens in a

1255
01:11:44,399 --> 01:11:46,239
mirrored sense at the end of the world. So it's

1256
01:11:46,319 --> 01:11:49,439
not like half of Mouthew twenty four or half of

1257
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,720
Luke twenty one happened in seventy eight and then the

1258
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,640
other half of the passage happens at the end of

1259
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:58,880
the world. All of the events have minor typological realities

1260
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:01,760
that are fulfilled in in the First Advent up to

1261
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,439
seventy eighty, and then they're mirrored at the end of

1262
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,279
the world in a global sense. That's what I'm saying.

1263
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:13,079
Speaker 34: Okay, So you're saying that the mirror typological fulfillment of

1264
01:12:13,159 --> 01:12:16,840
First Thessalonians Chapter four is the resurrection of baptism.

1265
01:12:18,079 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: There's not just it's multiple things are signs and symbols

1266
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:29,560
of this and fulfillments of this. Okay, and so Christ listen,

1267
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:33,960
all right, like we'll walk through first Thessalonians in a

1268
01:12:34,079 --> 01:12:49,680
second here, but let's go to Luke so in Luke two,

1269
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:55,079
or looksc me Luke twenty one. Jesus says, then as

1270
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:57,000
he spoke about the temple, how it was adorned with

1271
01:12:57,079 --> 01:13:01,000
beautiful stones, he said, the things that you see the day,

1272
01:13:01,119 --> 01:13:03,560
the days will come in which not one stone will

1273
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,439
be left upon another. And they say, when is this

1274
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,560
going to be? What is the sign that this is

1275
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,760
about to take place? Take heed that you be not deceived.

1276
01:13:13,039 --> 01:13:16,479
Now evangelicals think this is talking to everybody right now

1277
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,319
at the end of the their version of the end

1278
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:21,680
of the world. But who's in when you do basic crimineuticts?

1279
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:28,600
Who's the immediate context those listening? Right, So he's saying

1280
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,680
that you will see these things. You will hear about

1281
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,920
wars and commotions. Nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom.

1282
01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:38,720
There's earthquakes, famines, pestilences. Many of these things, by the way,

1283
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,640
are mentioned in the Book of Acts. The apostles are

1284
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,880
persecuted and put into synagogues by the person by the

1285
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,840
synagonue put into prison. Right, that happens in the Book

1286
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:52,159
of Acts. Right, And then he talks about, uh, don't

1287
01:13:52,199 --> 01:13:56,239
worry about your h you will not lose your souls,

1288
01:13:56,239 --> 01:13:59,319
et cetera. Then he says, you will see Jerusalem surrounded

1289
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:03,359
by armies. Know then that it's desolation is near. Those

1290
01:14:03,399 --> 01:14:05,600
of you that are in Judea flee to the mountains.

1291
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:07,760
How am I supposed to flee to Judea? Is this

1292
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:08,800
relevant to me right now?

1293
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 2: No?

1294
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: These are the days of vengeance in which all things

1295
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,000
written in the prophets will be fulfilled. So all this stuff,

1296
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,479
and he says, there will be great distress upon this people.

1297
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,119
They will fall by the edge of the sword to

1298
01:14:22,199 --> 01:14:24,760
be captive and let into all of the let into

1299
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,399
the nations, jerusally tramp trample by the gentiles until the

1300
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,640
tom of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Do you believe that

1301
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:36,079
all that happened in seventy eight, the.

1302
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 34: Pestilins, the famine, the abomination of desolation?

1303
01:14:42,279 --> 01:14:46,039
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, so look what so where's the issue with

1304
01:14:46,239 --> 01:14:46,840
what I'm saying?

1305
01:14:47,199 --> 01:14:49,199
Speaker 2: So my issue is is.

1306
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 34: I'm struggling to wrap my mind around how there can

1307
01:14:55,039 --> 01:15:03,439
be a duel fulfillment of First Thessalonians. Excuse me, Second

1308
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:07,920
Thessalonians chapter two, verses one through eight, which is Paul

1309
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,920
picking up in First Thessalonians chapter four, which is the resurrection.

1310
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 2: And so I'm trying to wrap my mind around what.

1311
01:15:15,119 --> 01:15:18,520
Speaker 34: Was the typological fulfillment to first Thessalonia's chapter four.

1312
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:28,279
Speaker 1: Okay, so first, Second Thessalonians two is about the apostasy.

1313
01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:31,600
An apostasy here is referring to as I argued, if

1314
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,720
you read David Chiltern's book Days of Vengeance, he goes

1315
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,399
into great detail arguing how this is referring to the

1316
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:42,279
high priest and the Temple, right, yeah, and the church fathers.

1317
01:15:42,319 --> 01:15:45,439
Then also in many cases will argue and they speculate

1318
01:15:46,079 --> 01:15:49,000
that this could either be an apostasy in the Church

1319
01:15:49,079 --> 01:15:53,159
at the end of the world whereby the Temple of God.

1320
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,880
If it's the Church, then it's within the Church that

1321
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,159
there is a massive apostasy and people turn away from

1322
01:16:00,199 --> 01:16:02,239
the faith at the end of the world, or the

1323
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:05,199
Temple of God could be an act of the actual

1324
01:16:05,279 --> 01:16:07,840
literal Temple in Israel. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

1325
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,119
You can interpret it both ways depending upon what you

1326
01:16:10,199 --> 01:16:13,960
think Paul's saying, but there is a final Antichrist, but

1327
01:16:14,319 --> 01:16:16,479
in the Book of Revelation, for example, the coming of

1328
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,560
the Lawless One. If you look at the variant manuscripts

1329
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:24,439
between some of the Greek manuscripts have six one six,

1330
01:16:25,319 --> 01:16:28,840
and then some of them have sixty sixty six, and

1331
01:16:29,079 --> 01:16:33,279
both of those in Gamatra equal to Nero Caesar. So

1332
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,159
both reference refer to Caesar, which tells us that we

1333
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:38,840
know that John's even the variant text, John is telling

1334
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:41,920
us that Nero is. This is who he's calling the

1335
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,039
beast in the Book of Revelation. So Paul's writing before

1336
01:16:45,199 --> 01:16:48,520
the events of the Book of Revelation. I believe revelations

1337
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,600
written prior to seventy eight D because it's the same

1338
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,840
lawless One that's being discussed here. But there's another final

1339
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:55,560
lawless one at the end of the world that will

1340
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,319
be the fulfillment of these pastes. So you're saying, then,

1341
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,680
what was happening in first s onions four?

1342
01:17:03,079 --> 01:17:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1343
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,119
Speaker 34: Yeah, because it seems to me that the lawless One

1344
01:17:06,199 --> 01:17:08,560
that appears in the Temple of God, which was the

1345
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:13,239
Herodian Temple, is not disconnected from the coming and his

1346
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,640
destruction at the company of the Lord, according to verse eight,

1347
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,880
is not disconnected from the Company of the Lord and

1348
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,439
First Thessalonians four, which is the resurrection.

1349
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,199
Speaker 2: And so again, but how.

1350
01:17:26,119 --> 01:17:29,279
Speaker 1: Does the mirrored position make sense of both of those?

1351
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:31,520
So where's the problem in the mirrored position?

1352
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 34: Yeah, I don't I don't guess. I guess I don't

1353
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,640
see any problem with like a dual fulfillment. It's just

1354
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:43,640
I'm wanting to know what the what the first fulfillment

1355
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,439
of that resurrection of First Thessalonians four was.

1356
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,279
Speaker 2: I hope that question makes sense.

1357
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,079
Speaker 1: Well, the I think that Christ is already not yet.

1358
01:17:59,239 --> 01:18:01,720
So you can about both of these events as if

1359
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:07,119
they're the same event, because our temporal resurrection that happens

1360
01:18:07,159 --> 01:18:10,359
in baptism is immediately connected to the resurrection. So even

1361
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:14,399
though they happen chronologically out of time, it's the same event.

1362
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:19,359
Spiritually speaking, your baptism is your resurrection. So that's why

1363
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:23,079
Revelation calls them basically the same event, even though they're

1364
01:18:23,119 --> 01:18:26,800
called the first and second resurrections. You know what I'm

1365
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:27,279
talking about.

1366
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 35: Yeah, So.

1367
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: Let's look at to prove this point. Let's look at

1368
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,159
Revelation twenty. I saw thrones and those that were set

1369
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:38,880
on them in judgment was committed to them. I saw

1370
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:40,600
the souls of those who have been beheaded for the

1371
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:42,800
witness of Christ, that are not worship the beats or

1372
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,520
his image. They did not receive His mark on the forehead.

1373
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:47,720
They lived and ragn with Christ for a thousand years,

1374
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:49,840
but the rest of the dead did not live again

1375
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,359
until the thousand years are finished. This is the first resurrection.

1376
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:56,960
So everybody who's baptized into the Kingdom is part of

1377
01:18:57,039 --> 01:19:00,560
that millennial kingdom. It's not a literal thousand years. It

1378
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,760
is the church. The Church is the Kingdom. Throughout scriptures,

1379
01:19:04,399 --> 01:19:07,880
a thousand is used as a just a big number.

1380
01:19:08,159 --> 01:19:08,279
Speaker 36: Right.

1381
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:10,600
Speaker 1: God owns the cattle on a thousand hills.

1382
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 2: Right.

1383
01:19:11,119 --> 01:19:13,399
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that God doesn't own the cattle on

1384
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:14,760
hill one thousand and one.

1385
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:15,119
Speaker 30: Right.

1386
01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:20,399
Speaker 1: So the first resurrection is baptism, but it's it's basically

1387
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,800
the same resurrection. They're just temporarily distinguished. That's why we

1388
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,479
call it already not yet. So the king is the

1389
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,760
Kingdom here or is it in the future. It's already,

1390
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:29,560
not yet, It's both.

1391
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 2: Okay.

1392
01:19:33,039 --> 01:19:36,279
Speaker 34: I guess my last follow up question, and I guess

1393
01:19:36,359 --> 01:19:38,880
it would be done with after this is and thanks.

1394
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:39,520
Speaker 2: For taking the time.

1395
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,199
Speaker 34: By the way, So when you read in Luke twenty one,

1396
01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:47,840
and it's also like parallel to Matthew twenty four, verse

1397
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,000
fifteen regarding the coming of the Lord and as you

1398
01:19:51,319 --> 01:19:54,880
as you rightly pointed out the immediate context for those listening,

1399
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:58,119
and so that would mean we can deduce from that

1400
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:02,439
that those that listen seeing the abomination of desolation in

1401
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:05,399
the Holy Place, which was a Herodian temple.

1402
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Roman the Romans, according to Josephus who was eyewitness.

1403
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:14,239
I read Josephus on this, he talks about it fifteen

1404
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:17,800
years ago. Like Josephus saw the Romans come and put

1405
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,439
their pagan insignias inside the temple. That's the defiling of

1406
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,239
the temple. Just like have you read Maccabees?

1407
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:25,560
Speaker 2: Uh?

1408
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,199
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so you know then what happened in the

1409
01:20:28,239 --> 01:20:31,560
Maccabee period is an abomination of desolation that happens in

1410
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,279
seventy eight. That proves the mirroring right there.

1411
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:38,319
Speaker 34: Correct, correct, And I'm not in dispute of the mirroring.

1412
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:45,960
And I believe that Antiochus Epiphanies was like an anti shadow, right, Yeah,

1413
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,640
I guess my it's not necessarily the bomination of desolation.

1414
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:52,439
I had a question about it was just leading up

1415
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:57,359
to the follow up question, is that because concerning that event,

1416
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,159
you know, Jesus says that, you know, this Gospel will

1417
01:21:00,199 --> 01:21:02,279
be preaching all the world, and then the end of

1418
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:04,720
the age will come. And you know, Paul says that

1419
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:08,840
the Gospel was preached in Colossians and Romans and.

1420
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,319
Speaker 37: First throughout the Roman Empire right correct, Yeah, throughout the

1421
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:14,720
whole world, and then the end of the age will come,

1422
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,680
and you know, and also First Corinthians, chapter ten, verse eleven,

1423
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,439
Paul says, at the end of the age has come

1424
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:20,399
upon his generation.

1425
01:21:21,039 --> 01:21:26,199
Speaker 1: So that's all partial pred So I guess the.

1426
01:21:26,319 --> 01:21:30,560
Speaker 34: Question then is if there's a mirroring effect, which I'm

1427
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,000
not in dispute of. I'm just trying to see how

1428
01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:35,760
how it can be reconciled that there's a mirroring effect

1429
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,600
of the end of the age, which Daniel says, the

1430
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,479
according to Daniel chapter twelve.

1431
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:46,319
Speaker 2: Is the resurrection, the bodily resurrection.

1432
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 34: And so I'm trying to see how that there's that

1433
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:53,439
compatibility there. If the end of the age has taken place,

1434
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,479
wouldn't that necessitate the bodily resurrection.

1435
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 1: No, the spiritual resurrection is what happens at the First Advent,

1436
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:07,239
and that's the first resurrection of Revelation twenty at the

1437
01:22:07,319 --> 01:22:10,000
end of the world is the bodily resurrection, which is

1438
01:22:10,079 --> 01:22:12,760
the ultimate fulfillment of what has already taken place as

1439
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,199
the down payment. It's a both and not another. Or

1440
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:18,359
it's the same principle with the kingdom. Right, is the

1441
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,079
Kingdom here or is it a future reality?

1442
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 21: Yeah?

1443
01:22:23,079 --> 01:22:24,199
Speaker 2: I follow the rationale.

1444
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just

1445
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,319
still not understanding where the problem is, because there's nothing

1446
01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:34,199
wrong with saying that all the events that are happening

1447
01:22:34,279 --> 01:22:38,640
at the First Advent, the institution of baptism seventy a d.

1448
01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:42,319
That is the coming of the Kingdom, and in a

1449
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:46,039
general sense, the first spiritual resurrection.

1450
01:22:48,199 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 34: At least would be my last comment. I'll let you

1451
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:51,720
go and thank you for being patient with my questions.

1452
01:22:52,199 --> 01:22:55,279
Is I just so you can better understand my rationale.

1453
01:22:55,279 --> 01:22:57,479
It's not that I dispute a mirroring effect or a

1454
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:02,039
due fulfillment. It just seems like the reality of that

1455
01:23:02,279 --> 01:23:05,199
second fulfillment is constrained to eighty seventy.

1456
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,319
Speaker 1: Well, now you're a partial or now you're a full preterist,

1457
01:23:09,359 --> 01:23:10,760
so that would be harrisy. Is that what you're starting

1458
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:11,520
trying to argue?

1459
01:23:13,399 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily. What I'm trying to argue is just

1460
01:23:16,079 --> 01:23:18,439
I want to know if that, if.

1461
01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 1: There's has the bodily resurrection happened?

1462
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:23,359
Speaker 2: I would say that.

1463
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 34: On the surfaces that that that is what's logically deducible?

1464
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:29,399
Speaker 31: What are they?

1465
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,319
Speaker 1: No, it's not because what are the other things that

1466
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:32,880
attend the final resurrection?

1467
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:33,760
Speaker 2: Uh?

1468
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,119
Speaker 1: Putting an end to death? Has death been destroyed?

1469
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:41,119
Speaker 2: I guess it really depends on how you define death.

1470
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: Do you see people dying.

1471
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,079
Speaker 2: If we define death as a physical in the physical way? Yeah?

1472
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,600
Speaker 1: In Romans eight, death is described as both spiritual and

1473
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:55,680
physical as a result of the fall. Correct?

1474
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,359
Speaker 2: Do you mind showing me that I'm not exactly knowing

1475
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:03,199
what you're referring to.

1476
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: You don't know Romans. I'm not trying I do.

1477
01:24:06,159 --> 01:24:08,399
Speaker 2: I just don't know what verse, what verse, and particularly

1478
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:09,119
you're talking about.

1479
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:15,520
Speaker 1: Okay, when Adam fell, did he bring physical and spiritual death?

1480
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,039
Speaker 34: I would say spiritual death is definitely something I believe

1481
01:24:22,079 --> 01:24:22,479
he brought.

1482
01:24:23,159 --> 01:24:24,680
Speaker 1: You don't think he brought to you, don't He didn't

1483
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:26,239
bring mortality, physical death.

1484
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:27,359
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1485
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 34: I mean, you don't know because the only reason why

1486
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,479
I say that is because it's said that the day

1487
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:33,640
he eats, he will die.

1488
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:36,319
Speaker 2: But he didn't die physically that day.

1489
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: Well, he did die spiritually and then he died physically. Correct,

1490
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,479
So you don't think, you don't think. You don't believe

1491
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,640
mortality as a result of the fall. I believe separation

1492
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:49,439
from God is as a results. Okay, so you're a gnostic,

1493
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,119
so you don't believe in the body resurrection is what

1494
01:24:51,239 --> 01:24:51,800
this comes down to.

1495
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:54,239
Speaker 2: None, not necessarily.

1496
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,039
Speaker 1: Okay, when is the when is the boal of resurrection?

1497
01:24:57,119 --> 01:24:57,720
Then where is it?

1498
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,119
Speaker 34: Well, let me just say this in all and I'll

1499
01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:06,479
answer your questions. I believe that the resurrection is body

1500
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:11,399
is potentially bodily. I'm not entirely sure on the nature

1501
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:12,159
of the resurrection.

1502
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: But what what is it like Jesus is Jesus's body

1503
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:18,479
the pattern?

1504
01:25:20,359 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 34: Well, that's what the that's what the text says. But

1505
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,479
that John also says, we don't know what he's like.

1506
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:27,359
Speaker 1: He says that our body will be informed to the

1507
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:31,840
image of his glorious body. He doesn't say that. Well, no, yeah,

1508
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:34,199
it says, okay, when Jesus was resurrected, was it the

1509
01:25:34,239 --> 01:25:36,039
same body with the same piercing in the side that

1510
01:25:36,119 --> 01:25:37,119
he walked around and eat fish?

1511
01:25:39,359 --> 01:25:41,239
Speaker 2: I mean he walked through walls. So I don't know.

1512
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:42,199
I don't really.

1513
01:25:42,239 --> 01:25:44,039
Speaker 1: That's because it's deified. That doesn't mean it's not the

1514
01:25:44,079 --> 01:25:46,960
same body. You don't know. I mean, what's the point

1515
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:49,560
of him having the piercing in his side that he

1516
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,560
tells Thomas, put your fingers in the side.

1517
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:56,239
Speaker 34: Yeah, No, definitely there it's something that they there's some semblance.

1518
01:25:56,319 --> 01:25:58,199
Speaker 2: I just I can't say that I can.

1519
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:01,279
Speaker 1: Okay, So why are you opposed so all of historic

1520
01:26:01,399 --> 01:26:04,159
Christianity is teaching of the body resurrection. It's not even

1521
01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:05,239
it's not even in question.

1522
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 2: No, I'm not opposed to it.

1523
01:26:07,119 --> 01:26:09,039
Speaker 1: You literally are opposed to what. You just set all

1524
01:26:09,079 --> 01:26:12,840
the positions in opposition to it, and you're not aware

1525
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:14,640
that Adam brought mortality.

1526
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 34: No, what I'm saying is, I do I do recognize

1527
01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:22,439
that Jesus was pierced and so that there is definitely

1528
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:25,079
a body that came out of the ground. I'm not

1529
01:26:25,159 --> 01:26:27,359
disputing that I'm just saying that to me, it seems

1530
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:30,159
like a very a mystery to me, how he can

1531
01:26:30,239 --> 01:26:31,159
walk through walls.

1532
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,359
Speaker 1: That's because he's deified. It doesn't mean that it's not

1533
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:36,640
the same body. It's stressed in the New Testament. It's

1534
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:38,399
the same body, but now glorified.

1535
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 2: So and sure, I'm not disputing that.

1536
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:41,199
Speaker 29: I'm not.

1537
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:44,520
Speaker 34: I don't have a solid position on the nature of that.

1538
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,199
I'm open to hear one way or the other.

1539
01:26:47,319 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 2: I really am.

1540
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,640
Speaker 34: I'm more so focused on the timing of the resurrection

1541
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,079
that really I see.

1542
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: So if you want to be a full predress, go

1543
01:26:56,039 --> 01:27:07,439
for it. Man, Psycho pompish, what's up? Through one man?

1544
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:11,640
Death came to all bodily death and spiritual death. It's

1545
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,520
not even this shouldn't even be it. So it took

1546
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:15,439
freaking an hour to get to that. What's up? Man?

1547
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 36: I'm you, hi, How are you doing? I just have

1548
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,399
a question going around in some Orthodoxy circles. Just be

1549
01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,199
curious to hear your thoughts about it. The question is

1550
01:27:25,279 --> 01:27:28,640
in relation to the nomic will. We know that Christ

1551
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,760
did not possess a nomic will, but my question is

1552
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:32,960
do you think the theotokos possessed nomic will.

1553
01:27:33,119 --> 01:27:33,359
Speaker 16: Thank you.

1554
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, every created hypostasis has a gnomic will that means

1555
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,720
you will in time, So of course.

1556
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:54,199
Speaker 2: Oh okay, thank you j R.

1557
01:28:02,279 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 1: Hello, Hey, So.

1558
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 2: If Adam didn't bring mortality, what's the point of.

1559
01:28:12,239 --> 01:28:17,520
Speaker 1: Christ dying on the cross and resurrected a spiritual resurrection?

1560
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:19,960
So he's basically a gnostic of some kind.

1561
01:28:22,279 --> 01:28:26,199
Speaker 2: Heh boy, he needs ask himself that question there.

1562
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's a basic you know, anthropology that

1563
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,520
we were body and soul. Obviously the heart is part

1564
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,560
of the soul. So I mean, if you're gonna deny

1565
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,039
that man has body and soul, I mean, I just

1566
01:28:39,079 --> 01:28:40,319
I don't even know where to go from that.

1567
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:42,159
Speaker 30: So and.

1568
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's just such a fundamental Jordan, what's up?

1569
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 2: Man?

1570
01:28:57,920 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 21: Did you hear me?

1571
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:01,319
Speaker 2: Hi? Hold well as well?

1572
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:05,159
Speaker 38: On a quick question, how would you respond to a

1573
01:29:05,279 --> 01:29:08,720
papist when they say because of the energy as it

1574
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:13,479
is the distinction that we and because of the distinction

1575
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,439
that we make they I've heard people, some businessinge Gothics

1576
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:21,000
say that it makes God have parts and so I'm

1577
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:21,760
just curious how you've.

1578
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:22,159
Speaker 2: Responded to that.

1579
01:29:22,359 --> 01:29:25,520
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if real distinctions Intel parts, then the

1580
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:26,520
Trinity is parts.

1581
01:29:30,119 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. That's something else I've heard of my friends.

1582
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:33,399
So thank you so much, so much appreciated.

1583
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of other arguments that

1584
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,239
could be said, but that one should be just pretty obvious.

1585
01:29:37,319 --> 01:29:39,199
But I mean, you're not talking to the smartest people,

1586
01:29:39,359 --> 01:29:41,960
but when you when you, I'm not talking about you yourself,

1587
01:29:42,039 --> 01:29:44,079
but like when this comes up, man, it's just like

1588
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:51,239
you explained this for ten years. Man's Marcian.

1589
01:29:55,359 --> 01:30:01,079
Speaker 39: I mean, yes, sir, okay, So my question was, really,

1590
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:06,560
under your worldview, is there any hypothetical in which Christianity

1591
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:07,640
could not be true?

1592
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you showed an argument that showed, you know,

1593
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:21,399
substantial sort of worldview level contradiction, and yeah, okay, I

1594
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:22,840
guess to expand.

1595
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,359
Speaker 2: On that a little bit more, would you acknowledge.

1596
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 12: That you could then hypothetically be wrong about Eastern Orthodoxy?

1597
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:34,520
Speaker 1: Sure? For the Sega argument, I'll buy Oh, okay.

1598
01:30:35,399 --> 01:30:35,439
Speaker 2: No.

1599
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:38,199
Speaker 12: I was just genuinely curious because I hear a lot

1600
01:30:38,279 --> 01:30:42,319
of presuppositionalists say, oh, no, I can't be wrong because

1601
01:30:42,359 --> 01:30:44,199
I'm grounding reality.

1602
01:30:44,279 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 1: In Well, I'm saying hypothetically, okay, I'm wrong. What's the argument,

1603
01:30:49,119 --> 01:30:51,880
and how do you what's the paradigm that accounts for

1604
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:52,359
those things?

1605
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 12: What things account what things need to be accounted for.

1606
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: The basics of any paradigm metaphysics, epistemology, and ethics.

1607
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,279
Speaker 2: Do those things need to be grounded in anything in

1608
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:07,840
order to.

1609
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:09,520
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to argue, yes.

1610
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 12: I fail to see why that would necessarily need to

1611
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:16,560
be Okay.

1612
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,520
Speaker 1: So if positions don't have to be grounded, then every

1613
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,279
position is potential.

1614
01:31:23,079 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 2: Could we not argue.

1615
01:31:24,239 --> 01:31:28,119
Speaker 12: Based off sensory perception or common common ground?

1616
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:36,239
Speaker 1: Do you know what justification means?

1617
01:31:39,359 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 12: Well, sure, it's like you know, in a legal setting,

1618
01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:47,760
it would be the general legal understanding or acknowledgment of

1619
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:48,840
something is true.

1620
01:31:50,199 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 1: Now what is what does epistomic justification mean? Not legal grounding? Right?

1621
01:31:57,039 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 12: I would say if metaphysic epistological justification would be what

1622
01:32:03,199 --> 01:32:07,199
is your epistemology? You're using what justifies your epistemology? Sorry,

1623
01:32:07,279 --> 01:32:11,520
that's a bit redundant. But so what's grounding it? So

1624
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:15,159
you would say God grounds your epistemology.

1625
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:17,359
Speaker 1: Right, I mean ultimately, But yeah, there's more to the

1626
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:21,000
argument than that. Okay, So you don't think that worldviews

1627
01:32:21,039 --> 01:32:23,520
have to have episodic justification, or if you if you

1628
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,560
think that they do, it's just would you say sense data?

1629
01:32:28,239 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I just I fail to see.

1630
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:35,840
Speaker 12: Why, and like, I see the practicality of believing in

1631
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,760
a god, But if our sensory perception is not telling

1632
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,560
us that a god exists, I'm not saying I'm just

1633
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:42,600
a hardcore atheist.

1634
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: By the way, I will again. So the problem with

1635
01:32:45,119 --> 01:32:50,039
naive empiricism is that there's way more devastating fundamental problems

1636
01:32:50,079 --> 01:32:55,960
to that position than theism. So why are we supposed

1637
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,760
to believe that all knowledge comes through sense data when

1638
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:01,760
that proposition and it's truth itself cannot be found in

1639
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,119
sense data? Right?

1640
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 12: I guess an argument would just be, well why not exactly? Like,

1641
01:33:10,119 --> 01:33:14,960
that's not an argument, right, Well, it's not necessarily a

1642
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:16,880
strong metaphysical just.

1643
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:19,520
Speaker 1: No, it's not an argument at all. It's just a statement.

1644
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,520
It's a question, Well, why not.

1645
01:33:23,239 --> 01:33:24,039
Speaker 2: Practicality?

1646
01:33:24,359 --> 01:33:28,640
Speaker 12: It's my personal preferences better the George.

1647
01:33:30,279 --> 01:33:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, if personal preferences can be your justification, then everyone

1648
01:33:34,359 --> 01:33:39,840
can justify any position with their personal preferences. Oh my god,

1649
01:33:41,279 --> 01:33:57,520
God help me, autistocrat, what's up? Autistic? I mean?

1650
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:03,159
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, I've just got a few questions on

1651
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:05,319
behalf of a Catholic friend of mine.

1652
01:34:05,359 --> 01:34:07,800
Speaker 35: I've tried to explain some of these things to him,

1653
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:11,159
but I could only do so much, and he would

1654
01:34:11,159 --> 01:34:14,079
He would seem to be really hung up on the

1655
01:34:14,239 --> 01:34:19,039
problem of legalism, or the question of legalism in regards

1656
01:34:19,079 --> 01:34:22,359
to how the papacy in the Catholic Church operates today.

1657
01:34:23,239 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 40: Just reading something he said to me, says, I guess

1658
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:29,560
the big question would be why would legalism not be

1659
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:34,399
continued in the New Testament conversion from you know, Old

1660
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,039
Testament Judaism to the religion of the New Testament.

1661
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:42,039
Speaker 1: Specifically, Well, I guess he's got he's got.

1662
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,640
Speaker 40: This hang up when it comes to things like how

1663
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:45,279
is the church?

1664
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,399
Speaker 2: Verbatim, he goes, how is the church going to.

1665
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:52,520
Speaker 40: Address questions like IVF and problems of modernity if they

1666
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:56,399
don't have a head of the church to issue dogmatic

1667
01:34:56,520 --> 01:34:57,720
statements on those things?

1668
01:34:58,039 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 1: Okay, why wasn't there simply dogmatic statements issued to every

1669
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:03,479
one of the problems in the first thousand years of

1670
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:03,800
the church.

1671
01:35:05,119 --> 01:35:08,680
Speaker 2: That's a good question, It's a good rhetorical question. That

1672
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:10,199
seems to be a big one for him.

1673
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:14,199
Speaker 40: I was saying necessarily that there is the framework in

1674
01:35:14,279 --> 01:35:19,680
which the patriarchs in the church structure as a whole can.

1675
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:22,600
Speaker 35: Make assessments on things that maybe don't need to be

1676
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:24,560
explicitly stated dogmatically.

1677
01:35:25,279 --> 01:35:27,319
Speaker 2: You know, that's kind of what I was saying, and

1678
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:30,760
I was tying that into what I understand about like

1679
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:33,319
kind of mea. But I'm just a cate of Cuman,

1680
01:35:33,359 --> 01:35:34,840
so I try not to do a lot of teaching.

1681
01:35:35,079 --> 01:35:36,640
But I said, I would, you know, come on and

1682
01:35:37,159 --> 01:35:38,880
at least ask some of these questions. That way I

1683
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:39,720
can get a little bit more.

1684
01:35:40,039 --> 01:35:43,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you're asking the right questions.

1685
01:35:43,159 --> 01:35:48,039
I mean, I would just simply say, you know, there's

1686
01:35:48,079 --> 01:35:53,239
all kinds of examples that show that that supposed solution

1687
01:35:53,399 --> 01:35:57,159
doesn't even work. You know, we have a giant section

1688
01:35:57,239 --> 01:36:00,720
of the Roman Catholics in the last seven years that

1689
01:36:01,359 --> 01:36:05,640
completely reject everything that the papacy has dogmatically taught both

1690
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:09,680
an extraordinary and universal ordinary magisterium for seventy years. So

1691
01:36:10,199 --> 01:36:13,479
where is these simple solutions. Let's talk about the death penalty.

1692
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:16,680
The death penalty was part of Roman Catholic natural justice

1693
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:20,359
for centuries. It's in the Catechism of Trent. Now according

1694
01:36:20,399 --> 01:36:23,359
to Francis and John Paul the Second and the Roman

1695
01:36:23,399 --> 01:36:28,119
Caltholic Catechism, it is an offense against the Gospel, and

1696
01:36:28,239 --> 01:36:32,479
it is no longer necessary. So these supposed one size

1697
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:36,199
fits all answers don't actually, I mean, that's just it's

1698
01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:39,560
a car salesman pitch. It's like when it's like you

1699
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:43,159
went to a car lot and there's a lemon sitting

1700
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:46,840
there and the guy says, why would you not want

1701
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,279
a car with all these parts? Look at this car here,

1702
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:54,600
it's got twenty times more parts than your old Chevy truck.

1703
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,720
And then you get in the car that you just

1704
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,560
bought and it doesn't drive. Yeah, but it's got a

1705
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:03,399
lot more parts. Look at all this Look how intricate

1706
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:07,560
it is. I mean, if it doesn't do what it's

1707
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,680
supposed to do, then what's the point of it. And

1708
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:14,079
by the way, it's the wrong question anyway, that's human thinking.

1709
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:16,800
I think we need to have the church structured this

1710
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:18,079
way so it'll make it easier.

1711
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 4: Okay.

1712
01:37:19,239 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 1: Is that how Christ sat at the church. Maybe he

1713
01:37:22,079 --> 01:37:25,560
didn't set it up to have one single head as

1714
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,159
a human entity. Maybe he set it up to have

1715
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:31,159
himself as the human head. Because he is the the

1716
01:37:31,239 --> 01:37:39,399
anthropost and the Holy Spirit guides the church. Like they

1717
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:46,359
just assume that the Holy Spirit can't work that way. Well,

1718
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:48,079
why in the Book of Acts and Acts a team,

1719
01:37:48,079 --> 01:37:50,199
why didn't they all just say Peter solved the issue

1720
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:52,960
for us. If the Vatican one model was the case,

1721
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:55,720
they would not have even had the Jerusalem Council. It

1722
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:58,359
would be unnecessary. All you have to do is write

1723
01:37:58,359 --> 01:38:02,319
a letter to the pope. Problem, solve rama, spoken cases closed?

1724
01:38:02,359 --> 01:38:05,000
Why even have councils? And when you ask a borrow this,

1725
01:38:05,159 --> 01:38:08,399
well do papacy would have had a thousand papers sit

1726
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:11,239
in the round and he couldn't even walk into Vatican

1727
01:38:11,279 --> 01:38:14,840
because all the papers. That was literally his response, Alex,

1728
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:15,399
what's up man?

1729
01:38:20,079 --> 01:38:20,279
Speaker 5: Jay?

1730
01:38:20,359 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 2: What's up?

1731
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 1: Hey? How you doing?

1732
01:38:22,239 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 2: I'm well, how are you?

1733
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:24,000
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1734
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:24,640
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?

1735
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,680
Speaker 27: I'm glad you brought up the papacy because I wanted

1736
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:31,119
to actually ask about like, uh, for those of us

1737
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:34,039
that are researching it, where do we go at this point?

1738
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:37,560
Like do we just go to the manuals by Ludwig

1739
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:41,119
Ought and Denzinger? Because I see Lee Also, the rhetoric

1740
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,640
of Pope Leo is so relativistic and that there's a

1741
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:48,319
move away from this manualist tradition. So I just wanted

1742
01:38:48,359 --> 01:38:49,920
to ask what's your take on that, Like, where do

1743
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:52,479
we go to find out what Roman Catholics believe. Obviously

1744
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:55,399
there's manuals and source documents, but it seems like it's.

1745
01:38:55,319 --> 01:38:57,520
Speaker 1: Ah, they don't even care about Jose manuals. Yeah, the

1746
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,479
manuals and the source documents don't even matter really anymore

1747
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,000
because number one, we got all the anti intellectualism and

1748
01:39:03,039 --> 01:39:05,680
the mean culture everywhere. That's really what it is. So

1749
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:08,760
it's an online cult. It's not actually connected to the

1750
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,239
thing in Rome. They're all pretending that Rome is based

1751
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:14,520
in trad when every day Leo says, all the religions

1752
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:19,800
are basically one big, happy family and don't be anti

1753
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:23,960
Semitic and anti Jewish and have open borders like he

1754
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:25,840
says this like every day. But we're going to pretend

1755
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:27,960
that it's all bays and trad because oh, there was

1756
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,760
Crusades a thousand years ago. Well, the people that call

1757
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,000
the Crusades one thousand years ago, the papacy urban, the

1758
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,640
second et cetera, innocent, the third et cetera. Now the

1759
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:39,560
papacy praised in the Mosque towards Mecca and says that Muslims, Jews,

1760
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:42,760
and Christians all have the same deity, which is patently false.

1761
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:45,039
One John says that if you do not have the Son,

1762
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:47,560
you do not have the Father. So if you don't

1763
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:49,760
have the Father, in what sense, how in any sense

1764
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:51,680
do we have quote the same God, the same deity.

1765
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:56,359
It's all just nonsense. So really the only use of

1766
01:39:56,439 --> 01:39:59,920
going to the manuals is to refute the more spurg

1767
01:40:00,199 --> 01:40:07,720
specifically sophisticated, theologically interested Roman Catholics. Otherwise it's not even necessary.

1768
01:40:08,399 --> 01:40:11,079
So you know, I would say the Sixteen People Documents

1769
01:40:11,159 --> 01:40:15,479
is a classic the Tan books publication is necessary to have.

1770
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,439
I would say, it's good to have Denzinger. It's good

1771
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:21,399
to have, you know, Little Got if you want to

1772
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:24,920
engage in these apologetics. It's good to have the documents

1773
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:29,920
Aboutican two Dogmatic Cans and Decrees of Trent that's also

1774
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:33,560
published by Tan Publishers. I would get a Catechism of Trent.

1775
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:37,199
I'm just looking over there at my book list over there.

1776
01:40:39,159 --> 01:40:40,439
I mean those are I would say, those are the

1777
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:45,560
apologetic fundamentals that every everybody should have if you want

1778
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:46,840
to do these kinds of apologetics.

1779
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,199
Speaker 2: But the old Baltimore Catechism too.

1780
01:40:50,359 --> 01:40:56,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Alex Nice.

1781
01:40:57,399 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 27: Do you think with this move away from the trade

1782
01:41:00,279 --> 01:41:04,760
Latin Mass and this like isolating of the uh like

1783
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:07,000
the trad Cats, I guess it's like point zero one

1784
01:41:07,079 --> 01:41:09,279
percent of the Roman Catholics.

1785
01:41:09,279 --> 01:41:11,439
Speaker 8: Do you think there's like a geopolitical component to that

1786
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:11,840
as well?

1787
01:41:13,359 --> 01:41:17,239
Speaker 1: There is in that, you know. I think at the

1788
01:41:17,279 --> 01:41:19,479
time of Rat Singer when he did his motu proprio

1789
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:21,720
to try to bring back the Latin Mass, that was

1790
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:23,439
throwing a bone to the trads, to try to get

1791
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:25,399
them to come back, try to get the SSPX and

1792
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:28,279
you know, Bishop Williamson and all those guys to come

1793
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:31,760
back into communion with Rome, because even though the SSPX

1794
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:34,840
is still in the big picture small, I think they

1795
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:38,640
wanted to be weary of and prepare against any possible

1796
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:42,560
future schism. And so that from a geopolitical because I

1797
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:45,119
think the papacy just is a geopolitical entity. It's really

1798
01:41:45,199 --> 01:41:48,079
not even a religious entity anymore to me. I mean,

1799
01:41:48,119 --> 01:41:51,119
it's religiously a delusion. But the modus off around of

1800
01:41:51,159 --> 01:41:54,640
the papacy, I believe is one hund percent completely geopolitics.

1801
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:59,039
So yeah, the reason that Francis you know, all the

1802
01:41:59,079 --> 01:42:00,920
way back to Batti in two and then it's Leo

1803
01:42:01,039 --> 01:42:03,159
the reason they're pushing this. All the religions are basically

1804
01:42:03,239 --> 01:42:05,960
one giant family. Well, guess who gets to be the

1805
01:42:06,399 --> 01:42:10,479
petrine supreme head of all the world religions If that

1806
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,520
convinces most people, the pope.

1807
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,199
Speaker 2: Awfully convenient, Yeah, so he gets to be.

1808
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:20,079
Speaker 1: That's why when you read what was Leo's in cyclical

1809
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:25,079
I forget or excum me. Francis is in cyclical from

1810
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:27,279
like I don't know, seven or eight years ago, where

1811
01:42:27,319 --> 01:42:32,000
it's has concentric circles, so like everybody's in communion, but

1812
01:42:32,119 --> 01:42:34,760
it's in degrees. So you've got the papacy in the middle,

1813
01:42:35,159 --> 01:42:38,520
you've got the Orthodox, You've got Lutherans and Anglicans, you've

1814
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,359
got non denominationals, and then out the outer circle you've

1815
01:42:41,399 --> 01:42:45,720
got like Hindus and Muslims. And that's the ecclesiology of

1816
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:48,560
nos Retate and Luminingentium is like we're all kind of

1817
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:51,439
in degrees of communion with the papacy, and hey, look

1818
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:55,159
we're already in commune. And that's why For example, the

1819
01:42:55,199 --> 01:42:57,359
other day there was a document that somebody sent to

1820
01:42:57,439 --> 01:42:59,960
me where they were Leo was talking about that were

1821
01:43:00,119 --> 01:43:03,960
already in communion with the Nestorians, right, And so what

1822
01:43:04,039 --> 01:43:05,600
they do is they do a bait and switch where

1823
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:09,479
they say, we've already done communion in terms of like

1824
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:14,680
actually participating in eating the Eucharist together. Then see, we're

1825
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:18,039
already in communion. And I talked to a very prominent

1826
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,239
Orthodox Oca priest and he said the exact same thing

1827
01:43:21,279 --> 01:43:25,319
happened with the EP. They've already done a EP and

1828
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:29,600
Roman Catholic cardinal communion, and they're going to announce we'll see,

1829
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,119
we're already in communion. So if you don't go along,

1830
01:43:32,199 --> 01:43:37,039
you're a schismatic. So basically this totally new conception post

1831
01:43:37,159 --> 01:43:40,359
Vatican two. It's not new a Vatican two. It's more

1832
01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:44,039
of a perennialist sort of Renaissance idea of what communion is.

1833
01:43:44,079 --> 01:43:46,640
It goes back to the humanism of the Renaissance. And

1834
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:48,199
if you doubt me on that that, there is a

1835
01:43:48,319 --> 01:43:53,119
necessary read from Michael Hoffman. It's called a cult Renaissance

1836
01:43:53,279 --> 01:43:55,800
Church of Rome. Now, Michael Hoffin is a traditional Catholic

1837
01:43:56,399 --> 01:43:59,920
and although he doesn't really understand anything about the first

1838
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:03,840
thousand years of Christianity. He does accurately do a deep

1839
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:08,760
dive on the second thousand years of Latin Christianity. I

1840
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:11,000
highly recommend this book. I read it when it came

1841
01:44:11,079 --> 01:44:13,560
out calt Ren is not in Church of Rome. I

1842
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:16,119
get a hold of it and read it, because he

1843
01:44:16,199 --> 01:44:21,319
will show you that essentially all the Orthodox positions and

1844
01:44:21,359 --> 01:44:25,840
critiques of the second millennium Franco papal monarchy are correct,

1845
01:44:28,279 --> 01:44:31,520
and that's why it's a geopolitical entity. Anyway, Sorry, I'm

1846
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:32,199
rambling ahead.

1847
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:33,399
Speaker 2: Oh you're good.

1848
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,079
Speaker 27: I wanted to ask what that kind of puts the

1849
01:44:36,239 --> 01:44:39,039
Orthodox Church in a strange position, Like we're protected because

1850
01:44:39,079 --> 01:44:41,720
we're decentralized, right, But at the end of the day,

1851
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:42,760
I feel like if.

1852
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 8: His all holiness to ecumenical patriarch b with all of.

1853
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 27: You, if he keeps on going around doing these things,

1854
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:51,560
eventually I think the Orthodox Church is going to have

1855
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:53,800
to take some action, right. I mean it depends on

1856
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:56,359
the level of severity, of course, but I feel like

1857
01:44:56,439 --> 01:44:57,680
there's a pressure.

1858
01:44:57,760 --> 01:44:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that will probably be a schism, correct.

1859
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:04,960
Speaker 27: Yeah, which we already see the beginnings of that happening. Right, cool,

1860
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:06,960
All right, thanks for taking my questions, Jay, I'll see what.

1861
01:45:07,159 --> 01:45:10,720
Speaker 1: Everybody check out awesome, Yeah, everybody check out Alex's channel.

1862
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,319
It's a Alex Soren channel on YouTube. He is doing

1863
01:45:13,399 --> 01:45:17,760
some great apologetic work. He is a orthodox lawyer. Be

1864
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:23,000
sure to follow him on Twitter. And let's see right wing.

1865
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:23,479
What's up.

1866
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:27,079
Speaker 2: I think the encyclicals lumin peed it.

1867
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:33,359
Speaker 1: Is that about the Nestorians. Are you talking about Francis.

1868
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:39,039
Speaker 30: Francis Is it's either lull it's.

1869
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:40,520
Speaker 1: For tally twoty, that's what it is. I knew it

1870
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,359
was a funny name. That's what that's the one. That's

1871
01:45:42,359 --> 01:45:44,600
what we did. We did a podcast on it. At

1872
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:49,000
the time, I'm trying to think of the name of it.

1873
01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:52,319
Let me I'll read you what the Nestorian statement said today.

1874
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:56,560
Let's see shout out to mellow. I think Melo sent

1875
01:45:56,600 --> 01:46:01,680
me this. Yeah, it says the address of his Holiness

1876
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:17,079
Leo to mar Alwa. Let's see this. By the way,

1877
01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:24,079
this disproves lunatic Sam Shamun because you'll notice that Sam

1878
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:28,560
Shamun is an ecumenist just like Leo, and that's why

1879
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:34,119
he's following this acumenist model of Apostolic Christianity, which is

1880
01:46:34,199 --> 01:46:37,159
all of the so called Apostolic churches, as if they're

1881
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:41,399
all Apostolic from some mechanical succession. But the theology doesn't matter.

1882
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:44,800
So you can believe in Astorianism, you can believe in monopsetism,

1883
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:46,159
you can believe in any of these heresies.

1884
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:47,159
Speaker 4: What did.

1885
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 1: Jimmy Akin say? What did plump booty guy say? The

1886
01:46:54,119 --> 01:46:58,119
culture of beverages? We know no middle error? Now, notice

1887
01:46:58,119 --> 01:47:01,399
what happened with this guy. He's so arrogant to go

1888
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:04,000
against the Council of emphicis claim that it made errors,

1889
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:11,039
and then he gets exposed as like a goober. But

1890
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:18,199
the root of the problem was this right here. So

1891
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:22,800
the church isn't protected. Fact, the church is only protected

1892
01:47:23,119 --> 01:47:27,600
infallible Voice of Reason says, the Council of Ephesis made

1893
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:30,920
an error. That's all to back up the idea that

1894
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:34,960
we are all in a loose communion.

1895
01:47:35,119 --> 01:47:35,479
Speaker 4: And here's what.

1896
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:37,840
Speaker 1: Here's what Leo says, right here, where is it a

1897
01:47:46,600 --> 01:47:54,560
m What was the exact looking for the exact phrasing,

1898
01:47:54,920 --> 01:48:23,479
it says the trip that provided the framework for the

1899
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:27,720
successive phases of our theological dialogue after reaching agreement and

1900
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:33,439
resolving fifteen hundred year old controversies enabled a certain community

1901
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:37,039
cashio in Soacris between our churches. So there's degrees and

1902
01:48:37,159 --> 01:48:40,920
levels of communions. You know that you're not in or out.

1903
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:43,680
You're like, you can be eighty percent papist, you can

1904
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:47,439
be forty percent papist. And this new model allows them

1905
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:50,439
for all the world religions to be in degrees of

1906
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:54,359
communion with the pope. Isn't that convenient? Right wing? What's up?

1907
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:57,079
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me up. I just have a

1908
01:48:57,159 --> 01:48:59,720
quick one. Your segment on Alex Jones, I think it

1909
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:02,640
was my week. You're going over the history of Fabian socialism.

1910
01:49:03,399 --> 01:49:05,760
Speaker 34: When doing that research, did you ever come across taksun

1911
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:07,760
alone explicitly described.

1912
01:49:07,399 --> 01:49:09,359
Speaker 2: Or maybe compared to Fabian gradualism?

1913
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:17,439
Speaker 1: Come across what takkoon alone? Oh? Tikkun olam? Yeah? Uh yeah,

1914
01:49:17,479 --> 01:49:19,680
I think it certainly probably relates to it, hasn't It

1915
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:24,720
has some at least connection with it, because if you

1916
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:28,479
look at uh, you know, the way Moses hes sees

1917
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:32,600
Judaism being the salvation of the world through the establishment

1918
01:49:32,640 --> 01:49:38,239
of socialism. I think that makes perfect sense. Okay, but

1919
01:49:38,359 --> 01:49:39,439
you never there.

1920
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:41,000
Speaker 2: You can't off the top of your head.

1921
01:49:41,039 --> 01:49:45,760
Speaker 34: There's nothing explicitly you've ever seen, uh like confirming it

1922
01:49:46,239 --> 01:49:47,439
from other sources.

1923
01:49:53,399 --> 01:49:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I'm sure that somebody has a critique of

1924
01:49:57,600 --> 01:50:00,800
rabbinic philosophy that probably could point that out. If you

1925
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:07,079
go back to like the cabalistic influences on Hegel or Spinoza,

1926
01:50:08,279 --> 01:50:12,359
it's probably it's probably there. Okay, there's a book called

1927
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:16,600
Hegel and Hermeticism and it goes into like cabalistic influences

1928
01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:19,039
on Hegel, but I don't know if they use the

1929
01:50:19,079 --> 01:50:22,600
specific term, but yeah, I think it's the same idea.

1930
01:50:23,399 --> 01:50:30,359
B what's up? Good question, Seattle, Rob five dollars Jay.

1931
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:33,319
I've been help, You've been a huge help. I'm a

1932
01:50:33,359 --> 01:50:36,039
former jose witness. I just got baptized in Orthodoxy. What

1933
01:50:36,119 --> 01:50:39,319
do you think about told houses? I would say, read

1934
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:42,960
Father Star from Rose's book Orthodoxy and the Life of

1935
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:47,720
the Soul after Death. What's up? Bank?

1936
01:50:48,159 --> 01:50:48,319
Speaker 40: Jay?

1937
01:50:49,359 --> 01:50:50,039
Speaker 2: Just quick question.

1938
01:50:50,359 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 31: Basically, I keep getting stuck in kind of a circular

1939
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:56,199
argument with one of my Catholic friends when I'm.

1940
01:50:56,079 --> 01:50:59,600
Speaker 2: Trying to disprove the papacy. I kind of started them

1941
01:50:59,640 --> 01:51:01,399
out trying.

1942
01:51:01,239 --> 01:51:04,880
Speaker 31: To inform him about the greg Worian Reform kind of

1943
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:07,680
leading up to that, and then he'll always revert back to, well,

1944
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:10,159
wouldn't you say that the Holy Spirit guides to the church?

1945
01:51:10,239 --> 01:51:12,119
Speaker 2: And then I'll ask, how do you know that the

1946
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:13,079
Holy Spirit.

1947
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:17,560
Speaker 31: Guys the church or guys and chooses these popes or whatever,

1948
01:51:17,680 --> 01:51:20,359
And then he just basically keeps going back to be like, well,

1949
01:51:20,439 --> 01:51:21,239
you're trying to say.

1950
01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:24,039
Speaker 2: Is that the Holy Spirit whatever? Whatever?

1951
01:51:24,399 --> 01:51:26,439
Speaker 31: And then I'll be like, well, just because you have

1952
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:31,199
so called continuity doesn't equal divinity, and it just keeps

1953
01:51:31,319 --> 01:51:32,279
kind of going in a circle.

1954
01:51:32,319 --> 01:51:34,359
Speaker 2: So I don't really know how to explain it any better.

1955
01:51:37,279 --> 01:51:42,079
Speaker 1: I mean, Council of Chalcedon says that clergy cannot hold

1956
01:51:42,199 --> 01:51:47,239
civil service and cannot be in offices of state. So

1957
01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:50,079
how are we going to have warrior monks when Chalcodon

1958
01:51:50,239 --> 01:51:54,479
clearly teaches that you can't have standing armies as the pope?

1959
01:51:56,680 --> 01:51:59,239
So how does what? How does just saying the Holy

1960
01:51:59,279 --> 01:52:01,199
Spirit guides the church makes sense of that?

1961
01:52:03,439 --> 01:52:05,159
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I didn't I didn't even think

1962
01:52:05,159 --> 01:52:07,640
about bringing up the warrior monks too well.

1963
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're talking about the Gregorian reforms, that's

1964
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:13,359
part of it, right, that the reforming popes of the

1965
01:52:13,399 --> 01:52:15,239
eleventh century, all of which are, by the way, are

1966
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:17,880
appointed by the kings. So when they talk about pop

1967
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:21,840
cero papism, it's actually papal o cesserism, because German kings

1968
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:24,039
appointed all the popes of the eleventh century.

1969
01:52:24,359 --> 01:52:24,439
Speaker 2: And.

1970
01:52:26,399 --> 01:52:29,159
Speaker 1: Kyl Sadan explicitly says that you can't have warrior monks,

1971
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:32,920
and you can't be a cleric and have a civil state,

1972
01:52:33,079 --> 01:52:36,039
much less civil state off as much less standing armies

1973
01:52:36,119 --> 01:52:39,319
like you know, the Renaissance popes have. Just everybody who's

1974
01:52:39,359 --> 01:52:44,079
a tradcat should watch the Jeremy Irons, you know, Borgia

1975
01:52:44,199 --> 01:52:46,520
Pope series and get an idea for like what you're

1976
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:47,399
actually arguing for.

1977
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:51,359
Speaker 31: Right, Well, so his follow up his fem of mind,

1978
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:53,760
because I've tried to have him, have him read like

1979
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:59,760
Audium Mesz, Vatican one, Vatican two, and his argument back

1980
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:02,920
to he's basically saying, well, don't you believe that the

1981
01:53:03,079 --> 01:53:05,239
Church can change.

1982
01:53:05,079 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 2: With the times or needs to make changes?

1983
01:53:07,800 --> 01:53:09,640
Speaker 1: Does he not? Does he not know that? Does he

1984
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:12,279
not know that his own papal documents condemned the idea

1985
01:53:12,359 --> 01:53:14,439
that the Church changes with the times. That's condemned, and

1986
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:18,039
multiple in cyclicals, including Patchindi dominici, gracious, that's the whole

1987
01:53:18,039 --> 01:53:22,159
purpose of pious attensive cyclical is that very heresy, right?

1988
01:53:22,239 --> 01:53:24,600
Speaker 31: And I've tried to explain to him, like to poral

1989
01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:30,680
supremacy and how his own, like their own doctor documents

1990
01:53:31,119 --> 01:53:35,720
and dogmas are like are completely contradictory, like Vatican two

1991
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:39,279
is completely contradictory in a lot of ways the Vatican One.

1992
01:53:39,439 --> 01:53:42,359
And then he just keeps going with the circular arguments

1993
01:53:42,399 --> 01:53:47,239
of well is trying to change to to fix those issues,

1994
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:49,920
and it just like almost goes nowhere.

1995
01:53:50,039 --> 01:53:52,560
Speaker 1: But I mean sod so God him Mesbez is teaching

1996
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:55,680
Marxism and socialism to fix those issues. It's totally retarded.

1997
01:53:58,359 --> 01:54:01,359
Speaker 2: I completely completely him a copy of the.

1998
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:10,199
Speaker 1: Modern Okay, awesome, Yeah, Popes against the modern error appreciate it.

1999
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:14,560
Pupes against the modern errors has, Popes against the modern

2000
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:17,079
errors has something that.

2001
01:54:17,119 --> 01:54:19,119
Speaker 4: We're all proud of. I got a browser here.

2002
01:54:21,359 --> 01:54:24,680
Speaker 30: Why would he even be called modern errors if it

2003
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:25,600
wasn't an error?

2004
01:54:27,119 --> 01:54:32,600
Speaker 1: Because they're going to fix it. Father of Ohio, what's up?

2005
01:54:36,319 --> 01:54:36,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

2006
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:41,359
Speaker 1: See, the papacy is adopting Judaism and Islam and syncretism

2007
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:45,000
to fix Judaism. Syncretism is see it's a it's a

2008
01:54:45,479 --> 01:54:50,720
it's a QAnon for the tradcats. What's up, man? I mean.

2009
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:53,239
Speaker 21: It was good man.

2010
01:54:53,239 --> 01:54:55,880
Speaker 32: I got a very basic question as someone who is

2011
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:58,319
just getting into all this and is going to be

2012
01:54:58,399 --> 01:54:59,880
going to a porthodox the.

2013
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.

2014
01:55:08,560 --> 01:55:10,359
Speaker 25: What would your advice being Maybe this is something you

2015
01:55:10,399 --> 01:55:12,960
got to ask a spiritual father, But what would your

2016
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:15,479
advice be for someone that's in like I don't even

2017
01:55:15,479 --> 01:55:17,479
know if you like kind of questions, but someone that's

2018
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:19,960
in a has been in a long term relationship with

2019
01:55:20,039 --> 01:55:22,760
a non believer but wants to become Orthodox.

2020
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you can still become Orthodox. You're not

2021
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,680
gonna have to like leave your your wife or whatever.

2022
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:32,399
Assume you mean a wife, But you say relationship. I know,

2023
01:55:32,439 --> 01:55:34,079
but you're gonna have to take that up with your priests.

2024
01:55:34,079 --> 01:55:36,840
That would be something you work out at a personal level.

2025
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:37,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

2026
01:55:38,359 --> 01:55:40,079
Speaker 1: Let's see, we've got a lot of people online. Nick

2027
01:55:40,920 --> 01:55:47,680
na cheta na chetah na cheetah. What's up, dude? Notice

2028
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:49,439
right here I've got pulled up for you. This is

2029
01:55:49,560 --> 01:55:52,479
Kennon seven of Chalcadon. We decree that those that have

2030
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:58,119
become clerics or monastics cannot join military service or secular office.

2031
01:55:58,199 --> 01:56:01,800
That means being a king and notable, a warrior, et cetera.

2032
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,279
Those that those that dare do this and do not

2033
01:56:06,439 --> 01:56:10,840
repent are anathema. And what does the papacy do? Has

2034
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:14,640
an entire standing army and says he is the geopolitical

2035
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:17,079
world ruler. And if you don't believe that he is

2036
01:56:17,159 --> 01:56:21,159
the geopolitical world ruler in a civil state sense, you

2037
01:56:21,399 --> 01:56:24,960
are losing your salvation. That's the last paragraph of Unham

2038
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:28,600
Sanctam in thirteen oh two. So who departed from the

2039
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:32,039
patristic teaching of the first thousand years And a lot

2040
01:56:32,079 --> 01:56:35,000
of Orthodox commentaries make a good point, including the Papa

2041
01:56:35,039 --> 01:56:40,039
Docus Mindorf book that covers the Byzantine period of the

2042
01:56:40,279 --> 01:56:44,319
eleventh century to fourteen hundreds. That book points out that

2043
01:56:45,039 --> 01:56:48,960
actually what happens is the papacy when it becomes geopolitical,

2044
01:56:49,359 --> 01:56:54,720
it actually makes it makes the state atheistic because the

2045
01:56:54,760 --> 01:56:59,640
state no longer has its specific Christian role and duty,

2046
01:56:59,720 --> 01:57:02,239
which is the purpose of the older symbol of the

2047
01:57:02,239 --> 01:57:06,920
Byzantine double headed eagle. Right, you understand this is the

2048
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:17,079
ancient Christian symbol for church and state. It is the

2049
01:57:17,159 --> 01:57:22,880
symbol of the imperium of the church. Why does it

2050
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:27,239
have two heads? Well, in the papal when I'm signing

2051
01:57:27,239 --> 01:57:30,159
to the model, it's one head, and the pope now

2052
01:57:30,279 --> 01:57:34,520
has church and state as his role. That is antichrist.

2053
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:37,840
That's why we talk about this. So when the pope

2054
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:40,800
takes on the role of the state has clearly happened

2055
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,720
in the Gregorian reforms up into when I'm signing them

2056
01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:47,479
in thirteen oh two. Now the state is subordinated as

2057
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:50,199
not even having really a Christian role. That's the argument

2058
01:57:50,239 --> 01:57:52,359
Papadacus and Mindorf make. I think it's a good argument

2059
01:57:53,039 --> 01:57:56,680
because what happens in the West, you get the Reformation

2060
01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:00,800
reaction against this role of the papacy. The papacy starts

2061
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:04,239
stepping in. The German princes, the European princes turned to

2062
01:58:04,319 --> 01:58:07,840
Luther and Calvin and others to support the Reformation because

2063
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:10,239
they're tired of the pope interfering in all of the

2064
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:14,279
state business. And that doesn't mean that I'm saying, oh,

2065
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:17,800
so you think that there should be kings as head

2066
01:58:17,800 --> 01:58:23,039
of the church. No, that's why it's symphonia. That's the

2067
01:58:23,119 --> 01:58:25,079
model of the first thousand years of Christianity. Did you know,

2068
01:58:25,119 --> 01:58:29,720
there's already a Orthodox Patristic first thousand years teaching on

2069
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:33,000
the relationship of church and state. It's symbolized in this symbol,

2070
01:58:34,079 --> 01:58:36,319
and in the eleventh century the papacy turns it into

2071
01:58:36,439 --> 01:58:40,239
a single headed bird with the pope wearing the triple crown.

2072
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:44,640
What's up, Nichita, Hello?

2073
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:44,960
Speaker 16: Jay?

2074
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:45,520
Speaker 15: Can you hear me?

2075
01:58:46,119 --> 01:58:46,319
Speaker 1: Yep?

2076
01:58:48,279 --> 01:58:51,439
Speaker 41: I'm a I'm an Orthodox Christian from Romania and I

2077
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:53,359
recently got really into Eric.

2078
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 2: I don't know him, Eric vonn.

2079
01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:04,119
Speaker 1: Ledin, Eric von Dannagan. No, I'm not going I don't

2080
01:59:04,119 --> 01:59:04,560
know who that is.

2081
01:59:05,439 --> 01:59:09,520
Speaker 41: Okay, Okay, he's an Austrian nobleman and the Catholic thinker.

2082
01:59:09,600 --> 01:59:13,960
But I wanted to ask you, do you think what

2083
01:59:14,079 --> 01:59:17,840
do you think about the option of a monarchist monarchy

2084
01:59:18,079 --> 01:59:21,800
with with Christian with Byzantine influences.

2085
01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:24,800
Speaker 2: That you like it?

2086
01:59:25,479 --> 01:59:28,159
Speaker 1: Yes, that sounds like the direction that I lean.

2087
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:34,239
Speaker 41: Okay, But in this paradigm, don't you think that it

2088
01:59:34,439 --> 01:59:37,159
is in the nature of the states to continuously expand?

2089
01:59:38,199 --> 01:59:40,159
Speaker 1: I mean that is a problem, yes, and then there's

2090
01:59:40,159 --> 01:59:43,800
no easy solutions to that. So how you you know,

2091
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:47,920
carve out an exact balance is is difficult. There's no

2092
01:59:48,039 --> 01:59:48,880
easy answers to that.

2093
01:59:50,279 --> 01:59:56,119
Speaker 41: You think you think constitution constitutionalism is is an is

2094
01:59:56,199 --> 01:59:56,600
an option?

2095
01:59:56,840 --> 02:00:04,000
Speaker 2: Or do you think it's flood intrinsingly flood. I don't know, Okay, yeah.

2096
02:00:04,079 --> 02:00:04,800
Speaker 9: That was my question.

2097
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if a constitutional constitutional monarchies usually

2098
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:10,199
have a short lifespan, so there is no easy answer

2099
02:00:10,239 --> 02:00:19,640
to that. Christian Cheney, what's up shamba for ten dollars?

2100
02:00:19,680 --> 02:00:19,800
Speaker 2: Jay?

2101
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:21,600
Speaker 1: What do you think about the fallen Angels, the Watchers

2102
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:24,640
and the nephelin. I believe that Genesis six is talking

2103
02:00:24,680 --> 02:00:27,119
about that, and that's because there's many passages in the

2104
02:00:27,199 --> 02:00:30,399
dudocononical texts that talk about the Titans. We don't make

2105
02:00:30,439 --> 02:00:32,720
it an issue of dogma. I don't care if people disagree.

2106
02:00:32,760 --> 02:00:35,199
You're free to have, you know, speculation on that issue.

2107
02:00:35,319 --> 02:00:38,159
But I do think those texts are talking about some

2108
02:00:38,279 --> 02:00:41,800
sort of angelic situation. What do you think about the

2109
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:44,680
sons of God idea? I get it. I've read old

2110
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:46,640
church fathers that talk about that. I've read you know,

2111
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:51,000
Father sur from Rose disagrees with that position. But anyway,

2112
02:00:52,079 --> 02:00:52,680
go ahead, John.

2113
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:57,079
Speaker 2: The way to solve that is powdered wigs and quill

2114
02:00:57,159 --> 02:00:58,239
pens obviously.

2115
02:00:58,479 --> 02:01:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the founding fathers had magic powdered wig powder, and

2116
02:01:03,880 --> 02:01:07,439
if if you shake that powder out on the constitutional document,

2117
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:13,439
it will actually do it with divine energies. What's up exactly?

2118
02:01:13,479 --> 02:01:17,439
And you have to use a quill pin. If you

2119
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:20,800
use a rolling ballpen, it won't work. What's up, man?

2120
02:01:21,399 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 2: Hey?

2121
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:22,199
Speaker 4: J how you doing?

2122
02:01:22,279 --> 02:01:22,439
Speaker 31: Man?

2123
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:22,800
Speaker 4: Good?

2124
02:01:24,119 --> 02:01:24,239
Speaker 11: Uh?

2125
02:01:24,479 --> 02:01:25,359
Speaker 15: First time calling them?

2126
02:01:25,399 --> 02:01:27,800
Speaker 2: Come listener, man, excited to get on here. I just

2127
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:32,760
had a question coming from prostatism. Does the idea of.

2128
02:01:34,319 --> 02:01:36,920
Speaker 4: Uh, bring the saints doesn't have anything to.

2129
02:01:36,920 --> 02:01:39,359
Speaker 22: Do with like the divine counsel and divine assembling things

2130
02:01:39,399 --> 02:01:39,920
of that nature.

2131
02:01:40,520 --> 02:01:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean it loosely relates to that, because the communion

2132
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:45,680
of saints is the basis of you know, asking the

2133
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:48,439
saints for intercessions. So because there's a communion of the

2134
02:01:48,479 --> 02:01:51,680
saints in heaven, you see that for example, when David

2135
02:01:51,840 --> 02:01:54,439
speaks to the heavenly host who talks to the angels

2136
02:01:54,479 --> 02:01:57,239
and his liturgical psalms, you see that. And here was

2137
02:01:57,279 --> 02:01:59,840
eleven when it talks about the heavenly city. So yes,

2138
02:02:00,279 --> 02:02:03,319
there is a connection there for sure. Ethan, what's up man?

2139
02:02:03,399 --> 02:02:10,079
Good question? The real issue, though, we're going to have

2140
02:02:10,119 --> 02:02:16,000
to debate is in with wigs Antium or Wyzanteum. Will

2141
02:02:16,079 --> 02:02:23,560
we be using a lakers hat, crowns or caps or

2142
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,520
will we be using do rags for the Wyzantine eagle.

2143
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:30,159
This is the wig or Byzantine Empire. We've already begun

2144
02:02:30,279 --> 02:02:34,520
to construct some of the symbology here, some of the iconography.

2145
02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:37,840
What's up, man, I'm you Ethan, heyj.

2146
02:02:38,319 --> 02:02:43,680
Speaker 2: I just have a question regarding a doctrine of Orthodox.

2147
02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:48,880
Speaker 22: Orthodox metaphysics. So I'm pretty new to Orthodoxy. I'm coming

2148
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:53,399
from a Platonists background. Just attend my first Divine Liturgy

2149
02:02:53,560 --> 02:02:57,720
and Catechorum in class. So I'm trying to really understand

2150
02:02:58,840 --> 02:03:02,399
the kind of logic and reason behind Creatio x nelio.

2151
02:03:03,520 --> 02:03:07,640
So I understand that God creating from nothing doesn't mean

2152
02:03:07,720 --> 02:03:11,239
that God's creating from you know, a substance of nothing

2153
02:03:11,359 --> 02:03:14,520
is something outside of him, but he's creating from himself.

2154
02:03:15,159 --> 02:03:19,640
Speaker 2: I'm just struggling to see why that doesn't entail the

2155
02:03:19,880 --> 02:03:22,760
eternality of creation itself.

2156
02:03:23,399 --> 02:03:26,239
Speaker 1: Because it's of the essence centrigy distinction. It's a specific

2157
02:03:26,319 --> 02:03:29,239
action that's distinct from other actions. And this is another

2158
02:03:29,319 --> 02:03:32,479
way to refute Roman Catholicism and absolutely divine simplicity because

2159
02:03:32,479 --> 02:03:36,000
they collapse the action of God into divine essence, and

2160
02:03:36,039 --> 02:03:38,640
that would mean that every action is essential and necessary.

2161
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:42,760
But God does different actions. Right walking on water, that

2162
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:44,960
was a specific action at a specific time that God

2163
02:03:45,039 --> 02:03:49,680
the Son did. Mathelene Blue is not a drug dummy, Go.

2164
02:03:49,640 --> 02:03:54,119
Speaker 22: Ahead, Okay, sorry, So I'm still struggling to understand I

2165
02:03:54,199 --> 02:03:56,479
have a syllogism here. So if you could point out

2166
02:03:56,640 --> 02:03:59,600
where I go wrong in that to help just kind

2167
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:03,359
of lose to day the reasoning, that'd be great. So

2168
02:04:03,680 --> 02:04:08,279
Premise one, God loves eternal primist two, Love necessarily expresses itself.

2169
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:10,880
Speaker 2: Premis three creations The expression.

2170
02:04:10,479 --> 02:04:12,640
Speaker 1: To find on this is why it's the love that's

2171
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:16,319
expressed eternally is in the intertrinitarian relationship between the persons.

2172
02:04:17,079 --> 02:04:21,520
Creation is an specific action in time and space because

2173
02:04:21,560 --> 02:04:23,920
God is creating time and space, so it's a different

2174
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:26,119
action from This is why I think Grevery Palmas makes

2175
02:04:26,119 --> 02:04:29,319
a distinction between the actions that are natural to God

2176
02:04:29,479 --> 02:04:32,399
or internal to God in terms of the intertrinitarian life

2177
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:35,760
versus the ad extra actions of God creating the world.

2178
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:39,199
God does different types of things, and the reason that

2179
02:04:39,239 --> 02:04:42,920
people usually make this mistake, especially in terms of strict

2180
02:04:43,039 --> 02:04:46,720
divine absolutely wind simplicity proponents, is because they think that

2181
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:49,119
all the actions that God does are identical or the same.

2182
02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:52,520
God does different things. That's why in the debate between

2183
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:55,640
palomas And and the Parley Mighty, he says, why does

2184
02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:59,079
this saint Genesis that he wrested from his works? Well,

2185
02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:02,199
that means he's and continue the action of creating. But

2186
02:05:02,399 --> 02:05:06,119
generating a son is distinct from creating a world. That's

2187
02:05:06,159 --> 02:05:09,560
why when Athanasius debates the Arians, the Arians say all

2188
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:12,880
of God's actions are the same, and so creating the

2189
02:05:12,960 --> 02:05:16,079
world is no different than creating his son or generating

2190
02:05:16,119 --> 02:05:19,119
his son. But the whole argument Nations makes is that

2191
02:05:19,640 --> 02:05:22,880
generating the son is not the same action as creating

2192
02:05:22,920 --> 02:05:23,239
a world.

2193
02:05:24,920 --> 02:05:29,600
Speaker 16: Okay, so the trinitarian is an act of God's love,

2194
02:05:30,239 --> 02:05:34,159
and so intrinitarian life is the generating of the son

2195
02:05:34,359 --> 02:05:36,920
and the proceeding of the of the spirit through the son.

2196
02:05:37,560 --> 02:05:40,680
Speaker 1: So that is the same move that the energies have

2197
02:05:40,880 --> 02:05:44,479
within the triad. Thus, the Father eternally loves the son

2198
02:05:44,680 --> 02:05:47,880
in the spirit. So there's a triadic movement of the energies,

2199
02:05:48,359 --> 02:05:51,920
and that's why love is not dependent upon the created order.

2200
02:05:52,399 --> 02:05:54,880
But if you're a Muslim or some form of Unitarian,

2201
02:05:55,319 --> 02:05:59,840
then God exercising these attributes does require a created order.

2202
02:06:01,079 --> 02:06:06,279
Speaker 16: So the Trinitarian together creates is that expresses like.

2203
02:06:06,319 --> 02:06:09,279
Speaker 2: An overflowing of that love? Or where am I going

2204
02:06:09,319 --> 02:06:09,720
wrong there?

2205
02:06:11,439 --> 02:06:11,720
Speaker 3: I mean?

2206
02:06:11,960 --> 02:06:15,119
Speaker 1: Maximus says that, yeah, God created out of his own goodness,

2207
02:06:15,880 --> 02:06:23,319
so that's basically right, But is that necessary? Now created

2208
02:06:23,479 --> 02:06:23,800
my will?

2209
02:06:25,279 --> 02:06:29,279
Speaker 22: Okay, But the nature of God is to create now

2210
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:32,279
and love Okay, the same power that God has.

2211
02:06:32,479 --> 02:06:35,279
Speaker 1: But God doesn't have to create. God has all kinds

2212
02:06:35,319 --> 02:06:38,399
of Basil says the energies and powers of God are infinite,

2213
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:40,399
but that doesn't mean he has to do all those

2214
02:06:40,439 --> 02:06:43,000
things because he's a being with free will.

2215
02:06:44,640 --> 02:06:47,079
Speaker 2: Okay. So maybe I'm just confused on what we mean

2216
02:06:47,199 --> 02:06:52,760
by love. So what is the Eastern Orthodox definition of love?

2217
02:06:53,199 --> 02:06:56,800
Speaker 1: Love is the divine energy that the Trinitarian persons all

2218
02:06:56,880 --> 02:07:01,800
share for one another. It is a self giving life

2219
02:07:01,960 --> 02:07:02,520
within God.

2220
02:07:04,039 --> 02:07:04,319
Speaker 2: Okay.

2221
02:07:04,479 --> 02:07:08,840
Speaker 22: So if it's self giving, that necessarily entails that it's

2222
02:07:08,920 --> 02:07:10,439
giving too something.

2223
02:07:10,319 --> 02:07:12,439
Speaker 1: Right, So the father gives to the son, the Father

2224
02:07:12,520 --> 02:07:16,960
gives to the Spirit, and all three persons experience and

2225
02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:18,760
have love for one another.

2226
02:07:20,239 --> 02:07:25,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So is creation an act of love of self giving?

2227
02:07:25,840 --> 02:07:28,880
Speaker 1: Creation is an act of love, but creating is not love.

2228
02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:30,359
They are distinct acts in God.

2229
02:07:33,079 --> 02:07:37,720
Speaker 22: Interesting, Okay, so you're saying creating is not love, but

2230
02:07:37,880 --> 02:07:41,159
it is an act of love and love is self giving.

2231
02:07:42,479 --> 02:07:42,640
Speaker 4: Yes.

2232
02:07:42,720 --> 02:07:46,960
Speaker 1: So Palamas says, all of the energies are unique, distinct realities.

2233
02:07:47,760 --> 02:07:50,560
They're also all one, but they're also multiple. So the

2234
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,439
energies are one and they are many. They're one, and

2235
02:07:53,520 --> 02:07:57,079
they're infinite. That's the Orthodox teaching. Okay.

2236
02:07:57,239 --> 02:08:01,840
Speaker 22: So according to Platonism, right, they often assert that emanation

2237
02:08:02,399 --> 02:08:04,520
is you know, define necessity.

2238
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:07,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we're not platanus. And if you read

2239
02:08:07,079 --> 02:08:09,640
Sank Gregory Palamus and if you read Saint Maximus, they

2240
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:13,880
specifically address the Platonic arguments that God creating the world

2241
02:08:14,079 --> 02:08:15,359
is not emanationism.

2242
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:16,920
Speaker 14: Right.

2243
02:08:17,039 --> 02:08:20,319
Speaker 22: And so I'm trying to understand orthodoxy here in it

2244
02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:23,439
and from what I've learned, and you can correct me

2245
02:08:23,520 --> 02:08:26,800
on this, it says that creation is a gift.

2246
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:29,159
Speaker 2: And it is done out of an act of love.

2247
02:08:29,319 --> 02:08:29,880
Speaker 4: Is that true?

2248
02:08:30,159 --> 02:08:32,000
Speaker 1: Is it's a it's a gift?

2249
02:08:32,319 --> 02:08:32,479
Speaker 4: Yes?

2250
02:08:32,920 --> 02:08:36,079
Speaker 22: Okay, So I just don't understand why it would be

2251
02:08:36,199 --> 02:08:39,680
problematic for it to be necessary if God is the

2252
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:40,159
source of.

2253
02:08:40,199 --> 02:08:43,600
Speaker 1: It, because we are not Platonus, and we believe that

2254
02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:48,199
God creates by his own free will, not out of necessity,

2255
02:08:49,079 --> 02:08:51,399
So we specifically reject Platonism on this point.

2256
02:08:52,439 --> 02:08:55,000
Speaker 2: But necessity is a product of his will, is it?

2257
02:08:56,800 --> 02:09:03,239
Speaker 1: No, God creates, God creates. God creates beings who possessed

2258
02:09:03,279 --> 02:09:07,640
for your will. So no, there's not necessity in his

2259
02:09:07,800 --> 02:09:11,199
created order. There's no necessity to him creating. God Why

2260
02:09:11,239 --> 02:09:12,600
would he have to create a world.

2261
02:09:14,359 --> 02:09:17,159
Speaker 2: Because he's he's that's an expression of him.

2262
02:09:17,199 --> 02:09:20,119
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe there's why does he have to express himself?

2263
02:09:20,159 --> 02:09:22,319
He has no lack, he has no need.

2264
02:09:24,199 --> 02:09:28,520
Speaker 22: Right, So necessity is from the Platonic standpoint, that which

2265
02:09:28,680 --> 02:09:30,159
is and cannot be any other way.

2266
02:09:30,800 --> 02:09:33,680
Speaker 2: And so that is the kind of framework that God

2267
02:09:33,720 --> 02:09:34,520
would lay out.

2268
02:09:34,840 --> 02:09:38,000
Speaker 1: No, see, you're just making all these leaps that a

2269
02:09:38,119 --> 02:09:41,439
divine person where made the image of God? Right do

2270
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:44,479
you have to do you have to build a house

2271
02:09:44,640 --> 02:09:47,359
or is that an expression of something proper to human

2272
02:09:47,439 --> 02:09:50,359
nature that you will to do the matter?

2273
02:09:51,119 --> 02:09:51,239
Speaker 2: Right?

2274
02:09:51,279 --> 02:09:54,600
Speaker 1: So, in the same way, Maximus says that the divine ideas,

2275
02:09:55,119 --> 02:09:57,800
the divine principles and archetypes of the created order. They're

2276
02:09:57,840 --> 02:10:01,840
called thought wills big because God doesn't have to do them.

2277
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:05,079
For example, there's all kinds of worlds that God could

2278
02:10:05,079 --> 02:10:08,680
have created, but he didn't. He created this one. And

2279
02:10:08,840 --> 02:10:12,079
that's because even though God has in his divine mind

2280
02:10:12,399 --> 02:10:15,399
all of the infinite possibilities of all of the you know,

2281
02:10:15,920 --> 02:10:18,720
other worlds that he could have created, he chose to

2282
02:10:18,920 --> 02:10:22,239
create this world. And that's an action of his will

2283
02:10:23,039 --> 02:10:26,680
and choice, not out of any necessity or emanationism. So

2284
02:10:26,720 --> 02:10:29,279
you just need to rid yourself of all the platonic presuppositions.

2285
02:10:30,439 --> 02:10:33,399
Speaker 22: Okay, it just seems like a kind of voluntary power,

2286
02:10:33,520 --> 02:10:36,000
voluntary will, kind of like can God create a rock.

2287
02:10:35,960 --> 02:10:39,359
Speaker 2: So heavy that he can't lift? Right? Again, question to

2288
02:10:39,439 --> 02:10:40,119
ask about God?

2289
02:10:41,319 --> 02:10:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because nature, God's nature is what it is

2290
02:10:45,720 --> 02:10:49,439
by necessity. That doesn't mean that God's will is necessary

2291
02:10:49,680 --> 02:10:53,319
in terms of some action or some execution, because God

2292
02:10:53,399 --> 02:10:55,760
possesses free will. So what you're not understanding is that

2293
02:10:55,960 --> 02:11:00,960
in orthodoxology there's a distinction between nature, person, will, and operation.

2294
02:11:01,159 --> 02:11:04,560
All those things are distinct. In our theology, Platonism collapses

2295
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:06,760
all those things. Hence why it believes in this sort

2296
02:11:06,800 --> 02:11:07,800
of necessitarianism.

2297
02:11:09,640 --> 02:11:13,439
Speaker 2: Okay, so is there So this is a matter of ontology,

2298
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:14,079
is what you're saying.

2299
02:11:14,119 --> 02:11:21,079
Speaker 22: So God, transcendent aspect of God is has ontological primacy, and.

2300
02:11:21,159 --> 02:11:25,000
Speaker 1: That what its will, divine essence is unknowable. God's nature

2301
02:11:25,079 --> 02:11:27,319
is unknowable what it is, it is by necessity. It

2302
02:11:27,399 --> 02:11:29,399
can't be otherwise. But we don't know the divine nature.

2303
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:32,600
All we know is what God reveals about himself to

2304
02:11:32,800 --> 02:11:34,840
us in an energetic, operational way.

2305
02:11:36,439 --> 02:11:39,279
Speaker 22: Okay, but I'm still one one last thing. I don't

2306
02:11:39,279 --> 02:11:41,479
want to take up too much time. I'm still struggling

2307
02:11:41,600 --> 02:11:46,079
to see how necessity is an issue here if what

2308
02:11:46,479 --> 02:11:50,760
is necessary is what God expresses, because you just.

2309
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:53,279
Speaker 1: Keep saying that and it's not. I'm denying that.

2310
02:11:53,960 --> 02:11:57,880
Speaker 2: So is necessity not the product of God?

2311
02:12:00,199 --> 02:12:02,960
Speaker 1: No, in order for there to be how could how

2312
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:05,640
could it even be a product? It's not a product.

2313
02:12:06,479 --> 02:12:09,920
Speaker 2: Okay, It's an eternal It's an eternal.

2314
02:12:09,680 --> 02:12:14,880
Speaker 1: Form of God. Necessity is not an eternal form. All

2315
02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:19,199
we're saying is that God's essence is necessarily what it is.

2316
02:12:19,479 --> 02:12:21,960
The persons are necessarily what they are. That doesn't mean

2317
02:12:22,000 --> 02:12:25,960
that God is constrained by necessitarianism. So that's two different things.

2318
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:30,159
Speaker 22: Okay, But in order for there to be a creation,

2319
02:12:30,279 --> 02:12:33,359
there has to be defining limitations.

2320
02:12:32,760 --> 02:12:36,159
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, God set those limits. God set those limitations

2321
02:12:36,239 --> 02:12:37,920
according to his will. What do you want?

2322
02:12:38,239 --> 02:12:40,319
Speaker 2: So that's that's all I'm calling necessity.

2323
02:12:40,439 --> 02:12:42,920
Speaker 1: That's not necessity. That has nothing to do with necessity.

2324
02:12:44,199 --> 02:12:45,079
Speaker 2: Okay, how does it not?

2325
02:12:46,199 --> 02:12:49,239
Speaker 1: What does it have to do with necessity? I already

2326
02:12:49,279 --> 02:12:53,199
stated that God's essence is necessarily what it is. That's

2327
02:12:53,239 --> 02:12:59,039
all we say about necessity, and I'm saying, you're the

2328
02:12:59,119 --> 02:13:03,680
divine essence, can't be otherwise in that sense, it is necessary,

2329
02:13:03,800 --> 02:13:04,520
it is what it is.

2330
02:13:05,640 --> 02:13:08,119
Speaker 22: That's the same definition that I'm working off here, that

2331
02:13:08,239 --> 02:13:09,479
which is and cannot be any other.

2332
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:12,279
Speaker 1: Well, okay, that's not all there is to God. God

2333
02:13:12,399 --> 02:13:15,720
is also a personal being. Person and nature are distinct

2334
02:13:15,800 --> 02:13:18,640
in the divine, in the divine triad, and so God

2335
02:13:18,760 --> 02:13:21,520
wills to create as he so wills. He didn't have

2336
02:13:21,640 --> 02:13:25,800
to create a world with Thomas Aquinas, but he will to. Okay,

2337
02:13:26,760 --> 02:13:28,000
then it's not necessitarian.

2338
02:13:29,399 --> 02:13:29,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

2339
02:13:29,720 --> 02:13:33,159
Speaker 22: Are we able to say why God is personal without

2340
02:13:33,399 --> 02:13:34,640
invoking necessity?

2341
02:13:39,279 --> 02:13:42,199
Speaker 1: No, it's just that's just how He's revealed why God

2342
02:13:42,279 --> 02:13:42,640
is that way.

2343
02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:48,520
Speaker 2: Nobody knows, So we can't prove that God is personal

2344
02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:49,520
other than just I.

2345
02:13:49,479 --> 02:13:51,760
Speaker 1: Think there's two Okay, here's what's going on. There's two

2346
02:13:51,760 --> 02:13:56,239
different senses of necessity. There's a volitional necessity or a

2347
02:13:56,439 --> 02:14:02,000
kind of deterministic emanationist necessitarianism that's different than the category

2348
02:14:02,119 --> 02:14:05,600
of something being necessarily what it is. So, for example,

2349
02:14:05,720 --> 02:14:08,560
could God not be uh? Could God be personal and

2350
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:12,359
then not be personal? No, he must necessarily be personal.

2351
02:14:12,520 --> 02:14:17,279
That is different from volitional necessitarianism or some sort of determinism.

2352
02:14:17,359 --> 02:14:19,760
That's what I'm combating. You're in You're you're flipping between

2353
02:14:20,079 --> 02:14:22,800
two different definitions or senses of the word necessary.

2354
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:26,119
Speaker 8: No, I agree with your with your prior definition there

2355
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:27,560
of necessity.

2356
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:30,319
Speaker 2: So this is where my problem comes into play with

2357
02:14:30,600 --> 02:14:32,159
the eternality of creation.

2358
02:14:32,720 --> 02:14:36,159
Speaker 1: If God's love, there is no eternality of creation. Love

2359
02:14:36,279 --> 02:14:39,720
is not created. Love is an energy that the three

2360
02:14:39,800 --> 02:14:43,039
persons of these of the triad eternally have. You keep

2361
02:14:43,079 --> 02:14:45,560
confusing love with creation. They're two different things.

2362
02:14:46,199 --> 02:14:47,960
Speaker 22: Okay, hold on, can I just can you follow my

2363
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:49,960
line of reasoning here for just a second. Okay, So,

2364
02:14:50,199 --> 02:14:55,239
if if love is self giving, right, that is that

2365
02:14:55,399 --> 02:14:59,079
is the definition of love here, and then creation is

2366
02:14:59,119 --> 02:14:59,840
an act.

2367
02:14:59,760 --> 02:15:00,520
Speaker 5: Of that love.

2368
02:15:02,319 --> 02:15:06,239
Speaker 1: So again you're collapsing different actions into the same act.

2369
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:11,079
Because God loves, he loves the Son eternally, that does

2370
02:15:11,199 --> 02:15:15,359
not mean that he also eternally creates. They're two different actions.

2371
02:15:15,439 --> 02:15:18,760
This is the debate that Athanasius has with the Arians.

2372
02:15:19,039 --> 02:15:22,680
Two different types of acts. You're collapsing the two acts together.

2373
02:15:23,199 --> 02:15:26,319
Just because I said God loves his creation. It doesn't

2374
02:15:26,399 --> 02:15:29,439
follow from that that the act of creating is eternally

2375
02:15:29,479 --> 02:15:35,640
synonymous with love. They're different. There's distinctions. Okay, all right,

2376
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:39,560
I won't I mean explain. I want you to hone

2377
02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:41,760
in on what's what? What about that is unclear?

2378
02:15:42,960 --> 02:15:46,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So you're saying there's different acts, correct.

2379
02:15:46,760 --> 02:15:54,640
Speaker 22: That doesn't really solve this idea of creation being non eternal,

2380
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:56,000
it being a one.

2381
02:15:56,039 --> 02:16:00,239
Speaker 2: Temporary because just because they're different acts.

2382
02:16:00,920 --> 02:16:03,199
Speaker 1: One is a temporal act or the other's eternal act.

2383
02:16:03,439 --> 02:16:05,439
God doesn't have to do everything eternally.

2384
02:16:06,479 --> 02:16:09,680
Speaker 22: Okay, but they come from the same root impulse of love.

2385
02:16:09,880 --> 02:16:10,680
Speaker 2: Right did God?

2386
02:16:10,960 --> 02:16:15,239
Speaker 22: Let me ask you this, Did God create Jesus or

2387
02:16:15,439 --> 02:16:16,720
does he maintain.

2388
02:16:16,439 --> 02:16:18,079
Speaker 1: The Son through his love?

2389
02:16:18,640 --> 02:16:21,119
Speaker 2: Is that a different kind of love that he then

2390
02:16:21,239 --> 02:16:22,600
uses to create the world.

2391
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:25,920
Speaker 1: God doesn't create the Son through love. There's no will

2392
02:16:26,159 --> 02:16:27,720
when it comes to the Son. The Son is an

2393
02:16:27,760 --> 02:16:30,720
eternal generation of the Father's nature. It is not by will.

2394
02:16:31,039 --> 02:16:35,360
So you keep confusing. You're making aryan arguments and neoplatonic

2395
02:16:35,520 --> 02:16:38,319
arguments when that's not our position, and you're the only

2396
02:16:38,360 --> 02:16:42,280
way your argument works is to collapse the energy of

2397
02:16:42,319 --> 02:16:45,319
divine love into the action of creating. And I keep

2398
02:16:45,360 --> 02:16:48,120
saying that in our theology there are different things that

2399
02:16:48,239 --> 02:16:50,520
God does, so that seems to be the problem. And

2400
02:16:50,559 --> 02:16:53,360
you're saying, yeah, but God's eternal. That doesn't require that

2401
02:16:53,479 --> 02:16:54,799
every action of God be eternal.

2402
02:16:56,399 --> 02:16:59,079
Speaker 22: Okay, But the Trinity is eternal, right, and it's dependent

2403
02:16:59,159 --> 02:16:59,959
upon God's nature.

2404
02:17:00,120 --> 02:17:04,639
Speaker 1: You said, well, the Trinity is three persons and they

2405
02:17:04,680 --> 02:17:07,680
all share the same nature. And yes, they in that

2406
02:17:07,840 --> 02:17:11,000
sense have that nature necessarily, but that doesn't have anything

2407
02:17:11,079 --> 02:17:14,520
to do with God's will. There's a distinction between nature, person, will,

2408
02:17:14,559 --> 02:17:17,319
and effect. You just keep collapsing them. Why should I

2409
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:18,200
think they're all collapsed?

2410
02:17:21,719 --> 02:17:24,520
Speaker 22: Why should you think they're all collapsed? Well, I guess

2411
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:27,559
this kind of turns it to more of a trinitarian argument.

2412
02:17:27,639 --> 02:17:34,559
Here so was okay, So the Trinity it exists prior

2413
02:17:34,680 --> 02:17:39,840
to creation, correct, Yeah, okay, but God does not exist

2414
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:41,959
prior to the Trinity, because they're one and the same.

2415
02:17:43,000 --> 02:17:44,840
Speaker 1: The word God is just a generic term that can

2416
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:46,840
refer to all kinds of different things. For us, it

2417
02:17:46,879 --> 02:17:48,879
picks out primarily the person of the Father.

2418
02:17:49,920 --> 02:17:53,600
Speaker 22: Okay, So the transcendent aspect of God, which I assume

2419
02:17:53,639 --> 02:17:54,239
would be the Father.

2420
02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:58,200
Speaker 1: No, it's the divine nature. It's I already said that. Okay, Okay, sorry.

2421
02:17:58,319 --> 02:18:02,639
Speaker 22: The divine nature that is the transcendent aspect of God

2422
02:18:03,079 --> 02:18:05,639
is that ontologically prior to the Trinity.

2423
02:18:05,760 --> 02:18:09,680
Speaker 1: That there's no ontological priority in God because it's an eternal,

2424
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:13,399
simultaneous reality. There's not ontological priorities.

2425
02:18:14,159 --> 02:18:15,799
Speaker 2: That's same because it's all beyond being.

2426
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,159
Speaker 1: It's not all beyond being. Everything that you're arguing is

2427
02:18:19,239 --> 02:18:23,000
Greek dialectics, and we reject Greek dialectics from the outset.

2428
02:18:23,040 --> 02:18:24,639
So maybe it would help to say from the outset,

2429
02:18:24,799 --> 02:18:28,239
we don't do either or dialectics like Greeks and Hellenic metaphysics.

2430
02:18:28,280 --> 02:18:31,159
Does these are? God is not more one than he

2431
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:33,959
is three, He's not more essence than he is person.

2432
02:18:34,079 --> 02:18:36,920
They are eternal simultaneous realities.

2433
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:42,000
Speaker 22: Okay, all right, I'm okay with that, But let me

2434
02:18:42,120 --> 02:18:44,120
just ask you one question unless you want to be done,

2435
02:18:44,120 --> 02:18:45,879
though it can be done. But I do want to

2436
02:18:46,040 --> 02:18:49,159
know with a trinity, there is there any way of

2437
02:18:49,399 --> 02:18:53,239
understanding the trinity without a special revelation?

2438
02:18:54,840 --> 02:18:59,440
Speaker 2: No, okay, so it's dependent upon special revelation.

2439
02:18:59,680 --> 02:19:02,879
Speaker 1: Correct, And I'll give you. There's a paper that's really

2440
02:19:02,959 --> 02:19:09,079
good that's that is basically about your question, and it's

2441
02:19:09,159 --> 02:19:13,040
called it's at Academia dot Eedu. It's really easy to access,

2442
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:17,280
it's free. It's called Plotinus and Eunomius, a Parallel Theology

2443
02:19:17,360 --> 02:19:21,879
of three Hypostases, and it's basically pointing out that uh

2444
02:19:22,719 --> 02:19:29,719
Cappadocian and Athanasia Christology is premised on rejecting the Neoplatonic

2445
02:19:29,760 --> 02:19:33,799
presubpositions that you're arguing, right, and.

2446
02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:37,399
Speaker 2: So it's trading it out for Orthodox presuppositions.

2447
02:19:37,559 --> 02:19:37,879
Speaker 1: Correct.

2448
02:19:39,319 --> 02:19:39,600
Speaker 2: Okay.

2449
02:19:40,360 --> 02:19:43,879
Speaker 22: I do have a book Understanding or the Mystical Theology

2450
02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:46,479
of Eastern Orthodoxy, and it kind of gets into the

2451
02:19:46,520 --> 02:19:50,440
difference between Platini's there in the that's a great book, okay.

2452
02:19:50,479 --> 02:19:53,159
So I'm guessing it's getting out a similar theme, which

2453
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:54,920
I do have my own concerns about, but maybe you

2454
02:19:54,959 --> 02:19:55,879
can say that for another time.

2455
02:19:55,920 --> 02:19:57,399
Speaker 2: Again, I don't want to take up all the space here,

2456
02:19:57,440 --> 02:20:02,079
so thank you for your time. Greeky East Latin West

2457
02:20:02,159 --> 02:20:03,280
has a section on that too.

2458
02:20:03,440 --> 02:20:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Schard's Greek Eyst Latin West is also good on

2459
02:20:06,440 --> 02:20:11,360
this and it's available for free at Mirio Biblos from

2460
02:20:11,479 --> 02:20:15,680
It's called from Philosophy from Theology Philosophy in the Latin West.

2461
02:20:16,760 --> 02:20:20,719
It's a chapter from the book Father Digan. Did you

2462
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:21,360
want to say something?

2463
02:20:23,600 --> 02:20:26,799
Speaker 2: No, just to fear having questions about about that? It

2464
02:20:26,959 --> 02:20:29,760
was that's why all this stuff.

2465
02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:32,760
Speaker 42: So important to kind of nail that exactly what do

2466
02:20:32,879 --> 02:20:36,760
we mean the distinction between will essence even the word necessary,

2467
02:20:38,280 --> 02:20:41,360
the energies as well. Otherwise you get these kinds of

2468
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:42,959
problems exactly.

2469
02:20:49,239 --> 02:21:18,920
Speaker 1: Nothing. So I'm you Charol Lambos. By the way, I'll

2470
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:21,559
remind you guys before charl Lombros comes on that we

2471
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:25,360
have a book signing tomorrow in Tampa. If you're in

2472
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:29,399
the Tampa area, you are welcome to come. It's a

2473
02:21:29,440 --> 02:21:36,159
free book signing at the Harley Davidson OCC Chopper Place.

2474
02:21:36,280 --> 02:21:41,360
What's it called here, occ Roadhouse and Museum in Clearwater, Florida.

2475
02:21:41,399 --> 02:21:44,360
That's basically Tampa uh. And I will be selling and

2476
02:21:44,440 --> 02:21:47,600
signing books tomorrow starting at noon, and then we'll be

2477
02:21:47,680 --> 02:21:49,600
hanging out there. You can come chat, you can come

2478
02:21:49,639 --> 02:21:51,840
to bate, you can come get books, get your books signed, whatever,

2479
02:21:52,280 --> 02:21:55,680
and then we'll have the costume party that evening. Jamie

2480
02:21:55,719 --> 02:22:00,680
will be dressed up as a specific of a Lynchean

2481
02:22:01,360 --> 02:22:05,479
Universe person. Charl Ambrose was Aja.

2482
02:22:06,600 --> 02:22:11,120
Speaker 23: So regating here, commands mean the authodo church.

2483
02:22:11,879 --> 02:22:14,879
Speaker 2: Are you aware of the term about in Greek?

2484
02:22:15,520 --> 02:22:17,479
Speaker 4: What see?

2485
02:22:18,239 --> 02:22:20,000
Speaker 1: I can't tell. I can't tell what you're saying.

2486
02:22:21,719 --> 02:22:23,559
Speaker 2: So the term I don't know the term in English,

2487
02:22:23,639 --> 02:22:24,719
but it's when.

2488
02:22:26,319 --> 02:22:30,440
Speaker 43: An Orthodox suspects that he is priest or bishop falls

2489
02:22:30,479 --> 02:22:33,200
into heroes in your preachus, hears you openly they can't

2490
02:22:33,200 --> 02:22:37,440
stop commemorating or can't communion with the bishop.

2491
02:22:38,760 --> 02:22:41,959
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think that's a there's it's a

2492
02:22:42,040 --> 02:22:44,920
case by case basis. You can't make a one size

2493
02:22:44,959 --> 02:22:47,799
fits all rule to say that anytime you disagree or

2494
02:22:47,840 --> 02:22:49,799
decide you think your priest is wrong about something, then

2495
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:52,920
you can just leave the church. So it's a principle

2496
02:22:53,000 --> 02:22:55,239
of wisdom that you're going to have to apply. There's

2497
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:57,639
no case, there's no easy, one size fits all Spurg

2498
02:22:58,159 --> 02:23:00,280
algorithm for what you're supposed to do and every case.

2499
02:23:02,639 --> 02:23:05,559
Speaker 43: Yeah, So going back to Harris in the church, do

2500
02:23:05,680 --> 02:23:09,040
you believe it's a fiftive form of protest that could.

2501
02:23:08,879 --> 02:23:12,360
Speaker 1: Put bro I can't understand what you're saying, man, I'm sorry,

2502
02:23:12,440 --> 02:23:14,159
just trying to type it out next time. Guys, you

2503
02:23:14,200 --> 02:23:18,600
gotta speak slow and precise English. And I'm not trying

2504
02:23:18,639 --> 02:23:20,159
to be rude to that guy, because I'm sure he's

2505
02:23:20,159 --> 02:23:22,120
a cool guy. I just I can't understand what he's saying.

2506
02:23:22,399 --> 02:23:22,799
What's up?

2507
02:23:22,840 --> 02:23:23,000
Speaker 4: Man?

2508
02:23:25,799 --> 02:23:29,079
Speaker 30: Is Jamie gonna dress up like Laura Dern's mom from

2509
02:23:29,239 --> 02:23:31,479
Wild at Heart and just smear lipstick on her face?

2510
02:23:34,120 --> 02:23:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of what's an even worse David Lynch.

2511
02:23:36,719 --> 02:23:40,600
She's going to be the teapot that David Bowie turned

2512
02:23:40,639 --> 02:23:46,399
into in Twin Peaks. What's up? Nothing? I mean, all right,

2513
02:23:46,479 --> 02:24:00,840
he can't connect Alex. What's up? Alex Pkeaton? What's up? Alex?

2514
02:24:00,879 --> 02:24:01,159
I'm you.

2515
02:24:03,280 --> 02:24:03,479
Speaker 2: Hey?

2516
02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:04,200
Speaker 37: Can you hear me?

2517
02:24:04,239 --> 02:24:08,200
Speaker 2: Okay? Yes, sir, well, I appreciate time, Thank you so much.

2518
02:24:09,000 --> 02:24:10,239
So I think it's obvious that.

2519
02:24:10,319 --> 02:24:13,000
Speaker 24: From a worldy perspective, we judge some sins a is

2520
02:24:13,079 --> 02:24:13,799
worse than others.

2521
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:17,079
Speaker 33: For example, murder is worse than steing a candy bar,

2522
02:24:17,479 --> 02:24:20,159
and I think that alsin makes its unworthy of God's grace.

2523
02:24:20,239 --> 02:24:22,000
Speaker 8: But can I just get your opinion or can you edit?

2524
02:24:22,159 --> 02:24:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean, within scripture, there's many places where it's stated

2525
02:24:24,639 --> 02:24:27,239
that obviously some sins are far worse than other sins.

2526
02:24:28,399 --> 02:24:35,239
Speaker 2: Okay, So in God's eyes, as is not equal, correct, Okay.

2527
02:24:35,719 --> 02:24:37,360
Speaker 8: I appreciate your response to that.

2528
02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:39,079
Speaker 2: I mean, if you.

2529
02:24:39,200 --> 02:24:43,120
Speaker 1: Don't read Ezekiel. For example, God says I will show

2530
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:45,239
you worse abominations than he says, and they will show

2531
02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,959
even worse abominations. I will show even worse abominations. Jesus

2532
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:54,719
says that harming children is the worst and you should

2533
02:24:54,719 --> 02:24:59,239
immediately be put to death by the state, not personal vengeance.

2534
02:24:59,319 --> 02:25:02,840
I mean, there's many examples of you know, read the

2535
02:25:02,879 --> 02:25:06,159
Old Testament and he was worse in his abominations than

2536
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:07,399
his father's before him.

2537
02:25:07,520 --> 02:25:11,559
Speaker 2: So yes, that makes sense. Well, I appreciate you, Thank

2538
02:25:11,559 --> 02:25:11,920
you so much.

2539
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:14,879
Speaker 1: Right, good question. That is a question that comes up

2540
02:25:14,920 --> 02:25:17,360
with a bit uh. It's true that in one sense. Yeah,

2541
02:25:17,399 --> 02:25:19,399
every human being is a sinner, but that doesn't mean

2542
02:25:19,520 --> 02:25:22,559
all well, every sin is the same. That's not true, Julius.

2543
02:25:22,600 --> 02:25:38,760
What's up? Scribs? Can God tickle ALA's foot? I don't

2544
02:25:38,799 --> 02:25:40,440
know if that's a question for a Muslim or for me,

2545
02:25:40,879 --> 02:25:44,799
Seattle Rob, Now we did that ac Muslims do not

2546
02:25:44,959 --> 02:25:48,399
like arguing. Muslims are not arguing like Riddick atheists. This

2547
02:25:48,600 --> 02:25:52,319
challenge is impossible. Have you even had them? I don't

2548
02:25:52,319 --> 02:25:55,000
remember last time there was a Muslim. It's been forever, Julius,

2549
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:55,360
what's up?

2550
02:25:58,040 --> 02:25:58,239
Speaker 33: Say?

2551
02:25:58,319 --> 02:25:59,799
Speaker 4: Brod good.

2552
02:26:01,600 --> 02:26:03,399
Speaker 44: I came on a few days ago and asked about

2553
02:26:03,440 --> 02:26:08,520
it is distinction, and you mentioned that it's to do with,

2554
02:26:10,520 --> 02:26:12,559
you know, kind of a tool that you use in debate,

2555
02:26:12,719 --> 02:26:15,120
but it's not actually what you know. The distinction itself

2556
02:26:15,159 --> 02:26:19,159
is irrelevant because in Orthodox pistemology you have this kind

2557
02:26:19,159 --> 02:26:20,159
of participate.

2558
02:26:19,799 --> 02:26:23,920
Speaker 1: It's an internal critique of the atheist, materialist, empiricist paragra.

2559
02:26:25,120 --> 02:26:29,479
Speaker 44: Right, and so your actual kind of orthodox view of

2560
02:26:29,600 --> 02:26:33,079
ontology is like a kind of a you know what

2561
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:36,239
you said about the logoi, it's more of a kind

2562
02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:39,120
of a realist is like the right word, It would

2563
02:26:39,120 --> 02:26:39,680
be a realist.

2564
02:26:39,840 --> 02:26:42,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, modern realism. I mean, we believe in, you know,

2565
02:26:42,559 --> 02:26:44,840
most of those metaphysical principles of the Middle Ages.

2566
02:26:44,920 --> 02:26:46,440
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, nice.

2567
02:26:47,040 --> 02:26:50,120
Speaker 3: So I guess it's sort of a basic, basic question,

2568
02:26:50,680 --> 02:26:52,680
But it seems to sit in a bit of tension

2569
02:26:52,799 --> 02:26:56,360
with your use of the transcendental argument, which comes from

2570
02:26:56,399 --> 02:26:59,840
a post Enlightenment kind of Van Till can't.

2571
02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:04,520
Speaker 1: That's a fallacy, genetic fallacy. What does the origin have

2572
02:27:04,639 --> 02:27:06,079
to do with whether it's an argument or not.

2573
02:27:07,639 --> 02:27:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was sort of wondering if that's yeah, so

2574
02:27:13,319 --> 02:27:13,520
are you.

2575
02:27:13,840 --> 02:27:16,360
Speaker 44: Is it another kind of case where you're similar to

2576
02:27:16,440 --> 02:27:18,920
the is all distinction. It's not necessarily something that you

2577
02:27:19,040 --> 02:27:22,120
build your worldview from, but you use it to show

2578
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:27,079
the kind of internal inconsistency or I mean, I guess

2579
02:27:27,399 --> 02:27:29,079
it's just sort of an interest. I'm not a trained

2580
02:27:29,079 --> 02:27:31,239
flows or anything, but just an interest in how kind of.

2581
02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:36,799
Speaker 1: Well Aristotle use Aristotle uses arguments from retortion. John Damascus

2582
02:27:36,879 --> 02:27:41,360
in the first page of Fount of Knowledge uses a

2583
02:27:41,479 --> 02:27:45,959
transcendental argument. So there's plenty of examples in ancient philosophical

2584
02:27:46,479 --> 02:27:50,319
you know, discourse of that type of an argument, but

2585
02:27:50,520 --> 02:27:55,559
the fact that a Calvinist makes that argument I mean, yeah,

2586
02:27:56,680 --> 02:27:59,920
would we say then that, well, you can't do calculus

2587
02:28:00,159 --> 02:28:04,239
because Newton and Leibniz came up with calculus and their heretics,

2588
02:28:04,360 --> 02:28:06,319
so calculus is heretical. It's just silly.

2589
02:28:07,120 --> 02:28:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

2590
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:09,200
Speaker 1: By the way, all the same people who make all

2591
02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:11,719
the same people who say this argument all run to

2592
02:28:11,760 --> 02:28:14,399
Aristotle as if okay, well Aristotle was a pagan. So

2593
02:28:14,799 --> 02:28:17,200
if we're going to use genetic fallacies, then everything Aerosols

2594
02:28:17,200 --> 02:28:17,920
said is negated.

2595
02:28:18,680 --> 02:28:21,079
Speaker 44: Okay, great, So the genetic fallacy is basically saying, well,

2596
02:28:21,120 --> 02:28:23,680
because your argument starts from this place, is going to

2597
02:28:23,719 --> 02:28:25,719
be wrong, rather than addressing.

2598
02:28:25,360 --> 02:28:29,040
Speaker 2: The actual argument itself. Is that correct? Yep? Okay, that's

2599
02:28:29,040 --> 02:28:32,879
really interesting. I guess sort of just my just kind

2600
02:28:32,920 --> 02:28:34,879
of out of interest in terms of your world.

2601
02:28:34,719 --> 02:28:37,600
Speaker 44: He as an Orthodox Christian, do you kind of start

2602
02:28:37,760 --> 02:28:42,920
from ontology or do you start from epistemology?

2603
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:44,200
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm trying to say?

2604
02:28:44,239 --> 02:28:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean, because they're they're all synonymous, they're all at

2605
02:28:46,920 --> 02:28:48,680
the same time, there is no priority to any of

2606
02:28:48,719 --> 02:28:50,840
them because it's an argument for an entire paradigm, and

2607
02:28:50,879 --> 02:28:54,280
the paradigm begins with divine revelation. So it's a theonomous epistemology.

2608
02:28:54,360 --> 02:28:57,360
It's not any sort of system building project. I'm not

2609
02:28:57,440 --> 02:29:04,520
dissing you. Is a great question, Sons of Jared sounds

2610
02:29:04,559 --> 02:29:14,000
like Mormon. So what's up, sons of Jurid?

2611
02:29:14,040 --> 02:29:15,879
Speaker 2: How you doing good?

2612
02:29:16,000 --> 02:29:16,239
Speaker 1: Good?

2613
02:29:16,719 --> 02:29:20,040
Speaker 2: Thank you Jay. Just a couple of quick questions. One

2614
02:29:20,479 --> 02:29:26,879
is the evolution is not compatible with the Orthodox few

2615
02:29:27,399 --> 02:29:28,360
is that correct?

2616
02:29:28,920 --> 02:29:30,760
Speaker 1: I don't believe that it is. There are many people

2617
02:29:30,799 --> 02:29:34,479
in our society that are steeped in it, so there

2618
02:29:34,559 --> 02:29:37,760
might be people who unwittingly believe erroneous things. But if

2619
02:29:37,799 --> 02:29:39,840
you really get into the nitty gritty of it, how

2620
02:29:40,000 --> 02:29:43,719
is ancient Hindu metaphysics and processed philosophy going to work

2621
02:29:43,760 --> 02:29:45,000
with Orthodox metaphysics?

2622
02:29:46,879 --> 02:29:47,600
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you?

2623
02:29:47,719 --> 02:29:51,719
Speaker 45: And then is there any teaching of Orthodoxy based on

2624
02:29:52,559 --> 02:29:56,520
lucid dreams or astroprojection, because now there's a hype and

2625
02:29:56,719 --> 02:29:59,159
thought that that are funding devices that helps you.

2626
02:30:00,079 --> 02:30:01,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think I think we would all reject

2627
02:30:01,959 --> 02:30:04,879
that as halfways to delusion.

2628
02:30:05,639 --> 02:30:06,000
Speaker 2: For sure.

2629
02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:23,200
Speaker 1: Our locks, what's up? I'm mute, our locks, I'm mute.

2630
02:30:25,200 --> 02:30:30,959
Speaker 46: I'm I've been Orthodox my whole life, like ROC, and

2631
02:30:31,719 --> 02:30:33,600
I'm kind of starting to kind of learn more about

2632
02:30:33,639 --> 02:30:38,239
the faith recently and I saw like the Western Right stuff,

2633
02:30:38,639 --> 02:30:40,799
and I'm kind of confused. This is probably a bit

2634
02:30:40,879 --> 02:30:43,040
low it tier, but like, how come we get to

2635
02:30:43,159 --> 02:30:46,079
kind of like take all of the sort of like

2636
02:30:46,239 --> 02:30:50,559
Western liturgical traditions and just like, you know, kind of

2637
02:30:51,159 --> 02:30:51,760
twist on that.

2638
02:30:54,600 --> 02:30:54,680
Speaker 2: One.

2639
02:30:54,680 --> 02:30:57,040
Speaker 1: Don't think we're taking it. It is the first thousand

2640
02:30:57,120 --> 02:30:59,040
years of the West were Orthodox, so I think the

2641
02:30:59,159 --> 02:31:03,360
idea was to have an outreach to disaffected Anglicans and

2642
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:07,000
Roman Catholics. It has a lot of problems, but that

2643
02:31:07,120 --> 02:31:08,040
was the idea behind it.

2644
02:31:09,840 --> 02:31:13,399
Speaker 46: But so the Western Right, essentially it is like cour

2645
02:31:13,520 --> 02:31:14,440
like in the Orthodoxy.

2646
02:31:14,600 --> 02:31:16,600
Speaker 2: It is canonical on everything correct.

2647
02:31:18,040 --> 02:31:19,840
Speaker 1: The right itself is fun. There's not a problem with

2648
02:31:19,920 --> 02:31:21,680
the right. The problem is that a lot of the

2649
02:31:21,719 --> 02:31:24,600
people end up wanting everybody to adopt all these post

2650
02:31:24,639 --> 02:31:27,840
schism devotions and Roman Catholic ideas like Sacred Heart and

2651
02:31:27,879 --> 02:31:28,600
all this nonsense.

2652
02:31:30,639 --> 02:31:33,319
Speaker 46: Okay, And I have a second question, So this is

2653
02:31:33,719 --> 02:31:37,680
more with the OCA. So my friend recently is kind

2654
02:31:37,719 --> 02:31:42,239
of inquiring about Orthodoxy and I'm just wondering because I

2655
02:31:42,319 --> 02:31:47,200
go personally, I go to a Rocker church and there's

2656
02:31:47,440 --> 02:31:49,799
an Ocia church that I think I don't know. Maybe

2657
02:31:50,760 --> 02:31:54,479
it would be better because I've never been there. But anyways,

2658
02:31:54,520 --> 02:31:59,040
the question is, how would you say, like, how would

2659
02:31:59,079 --> 02:32:03,920
I kind of recognize if an Ocia Church is you know,

2660
02:32:04,040 --> 02:32:04,719
one of those.

2661
02:32:04,680 --> 02:32:07,639
Speaker 1: Bad ones or good and they're gonna they're gonna tell

2662
02:32:07,719 --> 02:32:11,040
you bad stuff. So they're gonna talk about skittle stuff,

2663
02:32:11,079 --> 02:32:14,719
they're gonna talk about all kinds of problems. You'll know,

2664
02:32:15,799 --> 02:32:24,760
they're usually pretty open about it. Efrey Jepstein, what's up?

2665
02:32:24,799 --> 02:32:27,479
Welcome everybody. We've got a thousand people. Remember I don't

2666
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:30,079
know what's going on, because I think people are saying, oh,

2667
02:32:30,079 --> 02:32:32,000
I don't I never get notified. You have to turn

2668
02:32:32,120 --> 02:32:35,559
on the notifications on YouTube. So if people are saying, uh,

2669
02:32:35,639 --> 02:32:37,959
oh I never get notified of your live streams, well

2670
02:32:38,639 --> 02:32:41,680
a lot of people's notifications go into the spam box

2671
02:32:42,040 --> 02:32:44,879
now on all these different folders on your emails, Gmail,

2672
02:32:45,559 --> 02:32:48,680
and also you have to actually click the bell to

2673
02:32:48,760 --> 02:32:51,040
get notified. So you're just because you subscribe to my

2674
02:32:51,120 --> 02:32:54,079
channel doesn't mean you're gonna get notified. What's up, Effrey?

2675
02:32:56,040 --> 02:32:59,520
Speaker 2: Hey ja? I had two questions. The first was, well,

2676
02:32:59,559 --> 02:33:00,719
I don't know if you remember.

2677
02:33:00,559 --> 02:33:03,600
Speaker 47: Or not, but about two weeks ago, I asked you

2678
02:33:03,680 --> 02:33:08,040
about this argument for God's existence. My friend came up

2679
02:33:08,079 --> 02:33:12,639
with his position was that because there are so many

2680
02:33:12,719 --> 02:33:14,680
different arguments that where.

2681
02:33:14,639 --> 02:33:16,840
Speaker 2: The existence of God is a sufficient answer, that in.

2682
02:33:16,879 --> 02:33:20,399
Speaker 47: And of itself is a testament to the existence of God.

2683
02:33:20,520 --> 02:33:22,520
Now I think that that's fallacious.

2684
02:33:22,600 --> 02:33:23,440
Speaker 2: I just don't know why.

2685
02:33:23,559 --> 02:33:25,159
Speaker 47: So I was wondering if you've given that any more

2686
02:33:25,239 --> 02:33:26,879
thought and could give.

2687
02:33:26,760 --> 02:33:30,239
Speaker 1: Me an answer. Well, I mean, there can be bad arguments,

2688
02:33:30,319 --> 02:33:33,079
so why would the prevalence of arguments mean that something

2689
02:33:33,200 --> 02:33:35,120
is true. It's just a non sequittor.

2690
02:33:36,399 --> 02:33:38,399
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what I was thinking, because I was like,

2691
02:33:39,159 --> 02:33:40,079
you know, you could make

2692
02:33:40,239 --> 02:33:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a lot of arguments from Mark