WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.439 Hey, folks, Welcome back to another episode of the Ruby 2 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:12.080 Rogues podcast. This week, I'm your host, Charles max Wood, 3 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:13.880 and we are talking to Mike McQuaid. 4 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:15.400 Mike, you came on before. 5 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:20.120 We talked about homebrew and building Homebrew and work brew. 6 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:21.519 And all the stuff you were doing at the time. 7 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:23.719 Is there anything else you want people to know about 8 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:25.440 by way of introduction or yeah? 9 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:28.359 Not really all the same old stuff, Like I'm not 10 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.359 kind of doing as much stuff on work brew nowadays. 11 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.039 I'm doing even more stuff on Homebrew nowadays. So yeah, 12 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:36.799 all good stuff. Nothing really has changed. 13 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:37.399 Good deal. 14 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:39.960 I use work or not work Brew, I use Homebrew 15 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.840 all the time. So yeah, glad, pretty handy. It runs 16 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:45.799 on Linux too, I think I think I wound up 17 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.039 using it there somewhere. 18 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.880 Yeah, yeah, it runs on Linux, and I guess because 19 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.679 it's Linux. But we've still got a little a few 20 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:55.359 tweaks there as well, on like WSL on Windows as well, 21 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:57.079 so I've ended up playing wrong with it all my 22 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:02.240 Windows gaming machine, which until recently been unsullied by Homebrew. 23 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.640 Un slowly. I love it. Yeah. We we talked quite a. 24 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.000 Bit about Homebrew and how it works last time, and 25 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:11.799 I thought it'd be interesting because I find myself sometimes 26 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:15.120 fiddling with like writing scripts or things like that on 27 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.719 my on my machine and then thinking, you know, it 28 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:22.200 wouldn't be too bad to kind of parlay this or 29 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.840 these set the scripts into like a CLI. And so 30 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:28.400 I was just curious, I don't even know where to 31 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:31.599 start with that. But since you've kind of built a 32 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:33.879 CLI that a lot of people use, I know you 33 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:37.439 had other contributors, but yeah, let's say that I'm sitting 34 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:39.719 on some stuff that I think belongs in the CLI. 35 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:42.719 Where would you even start with something like that? Yeah? 36 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:45.280 I think that's it's really good question because I think 37 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:48.879 the a lot of this depends on I guess, like 38 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:51.959 a lot of stuff in tech, right is like what 39 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:54.599 does your scaling story look like? Right to be one 40 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.239 of those boring people of like if it's just something 41 00:01:57.319 --> 00:01:59.239 that you're writing. 42 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.599 For yourself to run it once and throw it away. 43 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.680 Then you know, thinking about like the language you use, 44 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.159 like you just want to reach for whatever is the 45 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:11.240 most familiar to you, or I guess in personally nowadays, 46 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:15.680 like whatever you think chat chpt can one shot a 47 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:17.319 reasonable approximation of. 48 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:18.840 What you want it to do, and then you can 49 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:20.759 tweak it before you run it. 50 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:22.719 But yeah, so like that way more than I care 51 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:23.159 to admit. 52 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:24.000 Oh for sure. 53 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:26.120 I mean it's great because I feel like there's a 54 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.439 lot of stuff around that where there's like scripts that 55 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:32.280 previously we just wouldn't have written. And then now just 56 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:33.599 being like, hey, I want to pull the state from 57 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:36.159 the getab api and previously being like, oh, that's possible, 58 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:38.560 but I really want to spend like two hours on this, 59 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.879 and then it's not like well, I'll spend twenty seconds 60 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.719 asking chat CHPT and look at the output and if 61 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:46.840 it's wrong and then it doesn't matter. But yeah, so 62 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:50.759 I guess that's the first thing. Is like, so for 63 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:55.240 me personally, like I tend to reach for like the smallest, dirtiest, 64 00:02:55.319 --> 00:03:00.319 filthiest scripts for Bash because I'm pretty comfortable in Bash. 65 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.840 There's Bash has like a huge amount of gotchas though, 66 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:06.759 so as soon as it becomes even slightly load bearing, 67 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:08.719 even for you, you probably want to go to like 68 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:12.840 a no offense Bash authors like a real language, and 69 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.520 at that point, you know, stuff's pretty interchangeable, like if 70 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:19.759 we're on a Ruby podcast, So like Ruby is really 71 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:25.199 good for like yeah, standalone single file cli script. That's 72 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:27.560 what I would tend to kind of go for straight away. 73 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.000 If you're a Python person. Python's pretty good for that 74 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.520 type of stuff as well. I think, like, you know, 75 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:35.240 if people don't have familiarity with those, I'd be surprised 76 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.560 if they listen to a Brewery podcast. But then, you know, 77 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:42.360 I'm sure you can probably do equivalent stuff in C 78 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:44.479 sharp and various. 79 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.599 Other right more obscure languages. 80 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:48.639 But like, I guess that's where I would tend to 81 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.039 go next is just be almost like, okay, how can 82 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.159 I put in a single script and you can do 83 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.639 some kind of neat stuff with Most people are familiar 84 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:00.599 with Bungler for installing dependencies, but then most people are 85 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:03.080 also like, okay, like bundler, I have to do like 86 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:04.960 bundling stoll and bundle exec and. 87 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:05.759 All this type of stuff. 88 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:07.960 But actually you can do some cool stuff with bundler 89 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.520 where you can actually define a gem file inside the 90 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.639 script itself, so the first thing it does is shouts 91 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.040 fall its dependencies installs them all, so that that can 92 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.120 be again quite a nice way of extending some little 93 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:22.959 basic scripts. 94 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:25.120 Yeah, I just want to back up on that for 95 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:28.000 a minute, because I ran into that somewhere I can't 96 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.920 remember where, but yeah, it's just its own little syntax 97 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:31.639 in there, isn't it. 98 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:33.839 What exactly do you have to do in order to. 99 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.639 Yeah, I can't remember the exact syntax with top my head, 100 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:39.199 but yeah, basically, like, I mean, that's the nice thing 101 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.560 about the state of Bundler and Ruby in twenty twenty 102 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.360 five is if you're installing an even vaguely modern Ruby, 103 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.519 it's going to come with a vaguely modern Ruby gems 104 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:52.040 and Bundler out of the box, and then everything essentially 105 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:53.639 you can do through the CLI you can also do 106 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.759 through the Rubia guys instead. And that means that essentially 107 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.800 every input that you would previously have poss as a parameter, 108 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.959 you can poss in as a string or like your 109 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.040 gem file instead of reading it from disc you can 110 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.560 like have that be like a here doc in your 111 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.600 Ruby script or whatever it might be. 112 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.959 Yeah, Like so that's a nice way of getting there. 113 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.199 So like, that's what I will tend to do is 114 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:17.439 have like a little bit at the top of maybe 115 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:19.160 one of my scripts that's like, hey, if I need 116 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:22.360 this particular gem, then install this gem at the first 117 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:24.240 time it's run, and then I don't need to like 118 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.000 carry along the script and a gem file and whatever. 119 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:30.279 I can just run it wherever I need to and 120 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:30.959 however I need to. 121 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.160 Yeah, I did find it. You require a bundler inline 122 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:39.560 and then you do gem file do and then you 123 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:41.959 basically put all your gem file stuff in there. 124 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:45.399 So you do your source which is probably RubyGems. 125 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.680 Dot org, and then you gem whatever and yeah, you 126 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.759 just use your the domain specific language for the butler 127 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.399 for the gem file. Yeah, and off it goes. 128 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:55.639 It's pretty cool. 129 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.519 So then when your script's getting a little bit more 130 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.160 I guess load bearing, as we were saying as well, 131 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:03.639 like that might be when you want to be like, hey, 132 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.600 I want to have some like options parsing, and like 133 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:08.720 the most basic way of doing that is just you know, 134 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.680 you've got the rg V like array and you can 135 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:13.000 go and. 136 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.079 Say, okay, what's the first parameter, second parameter. But if 137 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.279 you want to handle flags. 138 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.120 And switches and being passed in different orders, there's like 139 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:22.160 the Ruby again part of the standard library. There's the 140 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.319 Ruby kind of option parser library, which is pretty good, 141 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:27.720 pretty easy to use. If you're still in bashland, there's 142 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.120 like sort of a Bash equivalent, but in my mind, 143 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.079 even by the time I start getting towards like multiple 144 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:36.160 argument parsing, it's like, that's again a nice sign that 145 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.560 I probably want to go into Ruby, and yeah, use 146 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.360 that kind of richer library. And there's also various gems 147 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.160 that provide different dsls for whatever your preferences are in 148 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:45.519 that area. 149 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:47.439 Yeah, that makes sense. I know a lot of people 150 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.079 also use Optimist. You used to be called trollo. 151 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:50.839 Yep. 152 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:54.040 If you're been around for a while, and it's like optimists, 153 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:55.240 it's the same thing. 154 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.120 Yeah, so do you have this reference. 155 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.000 It's funny because I tend to. 156 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:06.079 I tend to like not I tend to use just 157 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.800 the most basic, like I'm going to pull stuff out 158 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:13.279 of rg V until it hurts. I think it's also 159 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.120 because I've been around in Homebrew and Ruby and whatever, 160 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.439 like long enough it's like I'm aware of all of 161 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:22.560 the kind of educases that you get there, and like 162 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:25.759 if you delete a random part of r V, or 163 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:28.439 if you jup it, or if you check for inclusion, 164 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:29.759 like what. 165 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:30.600 The various gotches are. 166 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:34.439 So like I wouldn't necessarily recommend other people do what 167 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.920 I do, but yeah, but I guess I don't have 168 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.720 a particular library of that I prefer for this stuff 169 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.399 and Homebrew because for a very long time, Homebrew kind 170 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:51.399 of couldn't really by design use any Ruby libraries without fully. 171 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:53.079 Vendoring them all, which was a big pain for us. 172 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:57.240 Like Homebrew basically built its own argument parser and stuff 173 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.600 like that. Even today, like Homebrew were a little bit 174 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:03.240 I wouldn't say suspicious of other libraries, but it's like 175 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.800 the we care. I guess this is a nice segue 176 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:08.279 to the next thing you might start caring about with 177 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:11.079 the CLI, which is like Homebrew nowadays, we really care 178 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:11.759 about like the. 179 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.399 Run time and almost like how long is. 180 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:17.920 It going to take to essentially, you know, do the 181 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:20.279 thing that you want it to do, So like how 182 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.279 long how long until you can print a Hello World 183 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.680 once you have all your libraries loaded and everything like that. 184 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.560 And I think that's the type of thing where like 185 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:30.480 if you have a script that you run once a 186 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.720 month and it takes thirty seconds to run, you probably 187 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:34.879 don't care if it takes five seconds or thirty seconds 188 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.120 or a minute, right like it's but if you have 189 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.559 a script that you're running in your shell, prompts say, 190 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.080 and then your shell's not going to be print your 191 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.240 shell prompts, not getting it printed until the script completes. 192 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.200 All of a sudden, you maybe don't want to require 193 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:50.200 that library. 194 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:51.879 You may be want to do it by hand so 195 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.600 that you can just boost it, or you may well 196 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:58.279 be getting to the wards the point which Homebrew is. 197 00:08:58.720 --> 00:08:59.600 Not quite able to do. 198 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:02.919 But some the other CLIs I've built more recently, I guess, 199 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.159 like at work Brew and at GitHub or whatever, it's like, okay, 200 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.240 you maybe want to reach for another language at this point. 201 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.279 So Ruby is really good language. There's been a lot 202 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:15.039 of performance optimization work that's gone into Ruby in the 203 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:17.720 last five or ten years, but a lot of that 204 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.080 comes from the shopifys and the gethubs, who are not 205 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.360 focused on how can I make a CLI run as 206 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.320 fast as I possibly can? But they're focused on like, 207 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.360 how can I have a long lived Ruby process realistically 208 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.399 running probably rails of Sinatra or whatever, which can serve 209 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:33.519 as many requests. 210 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.440 As possible as quickly as possible. 211 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:40.120 Right, So that has more performance implications around like memory 212 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.200 management and garbage collection and JITs and stuff like that, 213 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:47.720 and things which rewards the longer execution of the application, 214 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:51.240 which is the exact opposite of what CLI does. Unfortunately, 215 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.200 some things like Ruber Coop have kind of got around 216 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:56.039 that by having I forget what they call it, but 217 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.120 there's basically a mode when you can essentially have Ruber 218 00:09:58.120 --> 00:09:59.960 cops sitting in the background and you end up sending 219 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:04.120 requests to an already running process. I guess we could 220 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.039 maybe a take that approach with Homebrew one day, but 221 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.000 we've not yet. So instead we're generally concerned about like, 222 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:11.360 how can you how can you shave that time down? 223 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.519 How can you require as little as possible and push 224 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.840 some logic into maybe Bash in home Brew's case. But 225 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:19.799 when you're writing like a prophecy, a lie and that's 226 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:22.360 you know, that looks like maybe nowadays probably the best 227 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.279 choices would be something like gut rust or go, depending 228 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:26.000 on your preferences. 229 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.320 Like go, for example, is. 230 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.080 If you're used to Ruby, it's a very sad language 231 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.240 I think to write because it's you cannot be. 232 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:36.679 Expressive, IM go right now? 233 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:39.840 So yeah, so how have your experience has been with that? 234 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.720 About like going from the delights of ruby Land to 235 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:44.159 go land with the stuff? 236 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:44.919 Yeah? 237 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.759 Yeah, I don't love it. I mean I'm just barely 238 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:52.120 getting into it. They use it at work, so yeah, 239 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.200 back end engineer encompasses Ruby and go. Yeah, and mostly 240 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.559 I get away with not doing a lot of Go, 241 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.799 but yeah, they kind of expect and need you to. 242 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.440 So yep, yeah, it's you. I feel like there's there's 243 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:14.000 definitely been several schools of languages where the underlying methodology 244 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:18.960 is like stop people from doing stupid stuff, and Ruby 245 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.360 feels like it's almost as far in the other extreme 246 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:23.240 as you can do, where it's like you can I mean, 247 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:27.080 I'm sure you've reviewed some absolutely heenous Ruby code of 248 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:32.200 the years where people have metaprogramming to an absurd yeah 249 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.240 Goldberg level where it's impossible to figure out what's going on, 250 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.440 but that also allows you to build incredible the powerful 251 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.840 rails and all of this stuff, right and go. 252 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:44.240 I'm sure you have the same Charles. I just end 253 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:44.960 up feeling like. 254 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.240 You know, this like twenty line switch statement could be 255 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:51.440 one line of coding Ruby, but you know you don't 256 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:53.440 let me have the you know, you've taken away the 257 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.559 keys to this particular car, So I guess I have 258 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:56.759 to write the twenty line switch tament. 259 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.279 Yeah, I just have to say, I mean to a 260 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.480 certain extent like control flow and things like that. 261 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:04.279 It's all the same. 262 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.639 You know, there's some funky stuff with like very variable 263 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:10.799 assignment and functions and things like that, But yeah, it 264 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:12.799 doesn't light up my soul like ruthe does. 265 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:13.799 Yeah. 266 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:16.879 Yeah, Like Go feels in many ways to me like 267 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:21.159 a sort of much less verbost Java. Yeah, Like I 268 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:22.720 wrote a bunch of Java back in the day when 269 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:27.440 it was peak Java enterprise beans, and you know all 270 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:31.080 this like accessive boiler plate, and there's a lot less 271 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:31.919 at the boiler plate and Go. 272 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.080 But it still feels like this non zero amounts. But yeah, 273 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:35.879 so I'd say. 274 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.360 I would still consider reaching for Go for a CLI 275 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:40.720 if you really care about that. 276 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.559 Like execution performance. 277 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:44.919 So for example, I guess when I was at work 278 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:51.360 group previously, I was working on the CLI there, which 279 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:52.960 wrapped around Homebrew Cli. 280 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.639 So we wanted to provide as little overhead as possible. 281 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.960 And the amount of stuff you can do in zero 282 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.799 point one of a second on modern hardware and Go 283 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.480 compared to Ruby is like fairly spectacular. Like in Ruby 284 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:11.559 you're really trying to make sure you avoid like any 285 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.720 IO or significant significant computation or anything like that. 286 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:16.120 Ross Road just just. 287 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.600 Because of the virtues of it being like a natively 288 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.440 compiled language. 289 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:23.039 You can just do an awful lot of stuff much faster. 290 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.240 And that the multi threatened story as well, is like 291 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:29.360 because it's not the global interprets of walk or a 292 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.799 come that's the Ruby name, but whatever the Ruby equipment is. Yeah, 293 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.000 you can you can afford to just leading into the 294 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.080 concurrency a lot harder. 295 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:37.039 Yeah, that makes sense. 296 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.200 So let's say that I want to build a CLI 297 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.559 and I'm trying to think of like a super fun example. 298 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.320 Let let's say that I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna 299 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.080 get an open ai ap apike and I'm gonna you know, 300 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.679 I'm gonna make it talk to whatever, right, so you know, 301 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.360 maybe it'll talk to multiple services there. Right, So I'm 302 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.679 doing stuff maybe with the podcasts, which is kind of 303 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.879 what I'm imagining, right, So I hand. 304 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:03.120 Off my. 305 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.120 Audio or video to whisper and it bought I being 306 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.600 I got a transcript, right, and then maybe I hand 307 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.159 the transcript off to d LLM and it does some stuff. 308 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:17.519 A lot of this stuff I mean you would put 309 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:19.320 on the back of like a rails app or anything 310 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:22.039 else too, right, But you know, I want a command 311 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.159 line interface just to make it super easy for me 312 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.000 to kind of navigate through some of this stuff. 313 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:27.440 Where would you recommend I start? 314 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.440 Yeah, I mean, like for me with stuff like that 315 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.679 tend to in some ways, that's a kind of general question. 316 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:36.519 We like, how do you bolde software right? And I'm 317 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:40.120 sure everyone has different ways, but like the way I've 318 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.840 always liked to do it is essentially just try and 319 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.840 write the Well, I'll give my pre ai answer first. 320 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:53.679 My pre aions is essentially just right the filthiest, hockiest code, 321 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.039 assuming that no one will ever read it, to just 322 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.159 get the core thing done. 323 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:00.360 So I guess in your case, it's like, okay, I 324 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:00.799 want I. 325 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.000 Would write a script and I would point there. I'm 326 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:04.240 not going to do any argument. 327 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:06.759 If I'm just going to assume an argument has been passed. 328 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.480 I'm going to pull out the first argument. I'm gonna 329 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.039 get the file, maybe the MP three file or whatever 330 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.759 from the podcast on disc. I'm then going to load 331 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.919 that into memory and then going to pass that off 332 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:17.720 to Opening. 333 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.039 Eyes Transcription API. 334 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.360 I'm then going to pull down the result of that 335 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.120 as like Jason or whatever. Then I'm going to immediately 336 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.879 get that not store anywhere, stick that inter opreenning guys 337 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.200 like im API do something with that, bring that down 338 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.279 and then print the output right and essentially build it 339 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:37.039 in such a way that there's no air handling. If 340 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.320 anything is in any way not the happy path, then 341 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.759 it will fail with a completely incomprehensible whatever message. 342 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:42.960 Right. 343 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.559 So, like generally that's the way I like to feel 344 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.360 out how to do things initially, And like I think 345 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.360 sometimes with like CLIs and stuff like that, it can 346 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.399 be tempting to be like, oh, I'm going to add 347 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.360 the options first, you know, because that's if you're almost 348 00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.559 like thinking from like top to bottom. That might be 349 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.799 how you would think about it. But actually, like that's 350 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.759 not really Probably the thing you cared the most about. 351 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.600 You're trying to figure out is this thing even viable 352 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.600 or useful or whatever. And every minute you spend fiddling 353 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.159 with options is a minute you're not figuring that. 354 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.799 Out right, right, not doing the quarteine that makes sense? 355 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:21.080 And then so one thing that I'm looking at is 356 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.279 so then do you just build the CLI around it 357 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:28.440 so that you can say transcribe file nan yeah or exportant. 358 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:31.600 So I again with this type of stuff, like I 359 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.799 tend to go for like, keep everything in one file 360 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:38.240 like until it starts falling over, right. And I would 361 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.080 again to start with not even necessarily use any methods 362 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.840 until I'm thinking about making things kind of dry and 363 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.279 you know, I'm having to call the same thing multiple 364 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.639 times or whatever. Right, So I just would tend to 365 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.720 do that until it feels like it's getting too much. 366 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:55.440 I don't know what that is, whether that's you know, 367 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.639 a couple hundred lines, five hundred lines, one thousand lines whatever, right, 368 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.679 and then start splitting up. You said, if you had 369 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.799 commands like say you're passing like a transcribed command to 370 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.079 do this, or like a read out loud command or 371 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.680 you know, start a chat command or whatever, then that 372 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.880 might be when I'm like, okay, well, logically there's like 373 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:18.240 three different things this is doing. Probably the code between 374 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.039 them is not actually that similar. 375 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.720 So maybe these could all split out into. 376 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.200 Separate files that are stored a bit separately and included 377 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:31.079 separately and whatever. And again that's one of the pros 378 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.160 and cons of kind of Ruby and Go and stuff 379 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:38.400 like that, because in Ruby, okay, you've got those different files, 380 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.920 but you've now once you've slit into multi files like 381 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.079 if someone else is like, oh cool scripts, how can 382 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.880 I use it? Then it goes from being like here's 383 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.599 literally like the copy and pasted script contents to being like, 384 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:51.480 you need to clone this repo. 385 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.240 And here's how you want to ask this. 386 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.200 Yeah exactly, So like okay, you could but make it 387 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:58.079 a GEM and then they could gem install it. But 388 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:02.160 like I'm showing my Homebrew maintainer bias here, but I've 389 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.640 I personally I really like Ruby jams and equivalent to 390 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.119 other languages. For like I want to library I'm writing Ruby. 391 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.720 I want to library for Ruby. Right, I kind of 392 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.880 resent it when I'm like, I want to install a 393 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.400 tool that just happens to be written Ruby. I don't 394 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.559 actually care what language this tool is written in, right, 395 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.559 And I have to use MPM with JAM or pip 396 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.319 whatever to install some run to cli. Like for me, 397 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.640 I would always either reach for Homebrew or if it's 398 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.200 just something my mate wrote, ideally, my mate just like 399 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.279 sends me the script and I have like a dumping 400 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.319 ground repo and I just like copying paste that file 401 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.759