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Every 53 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.039 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 54 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:37.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 55 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:41.159 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 56 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.039 Good Evening, a real life thriller in the Vein of 57 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.000 the Devil in the White City, Kate Winkler Dawson's debut 58 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.199 Death in the Air is a grip being historical narrative 59 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:05.280 of a serial killer, an environmental disaster in an iconic 60 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.000 city struggling to regain its footing. In winter nineteen fifty two, 61 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.960 London automobiles and thousands of coal burning hearths belched particulate 62 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.199 matter into the air, but the smog that descended on 63 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:21.960 December fifth of nineteen fifty two was different. It was 64 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.400 a type that held the city hostage for five long days. 65 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.240 Mass transit ground to a halt, criminals roam the streets, 66 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:34.719 and twelve thousand people died that same month. There was 67 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:39.159 another killer at large in London, John Reginald Christie, who 68 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:43.000 murdered at least six women in a braided narrative that 69 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:47.840 draws on extensive interviews, never before published material, and archival research. 70 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:53.560 Dawson captivatingly recounts the intersecting stories of these two killers 71 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:58.280 and their long standing impact on modern history. The book 72 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.520 they were featuring this evening is Death in the Air, 73 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.159 The True Story of a serial killer, the Great London Smog, 74 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.520 and the Strangling of a City, with my special guest, 75 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:13.400 documentary filmmaker, author, and journalist Kate Winkler Dawson. Welcome to 76 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:15.319 the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to 77 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:20.600 this interview. Kate Winkler Dawson, Thanks Dan, I'm really happy 78 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.920 to be here. Thank you very much. This is an 79 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:28.399 incredible story. Of course, I had not heard anything about 80 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:30.720 the London smog, and I'm sure our audience will be 81 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.600 excited to hear this incredible tale, the intersection of two 82 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:44.560 incredible killers, John Reginald Christy and the London Smog. I 83 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.680 just mentioned that you were a documentary filmmaker. Please tell 84 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:53.839 us about your background in filmmaking before we talk about 85 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:57.920 a little bit about the origins of this book. 86 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:04.480 Sure. So, I've been a journalist for about twenty five 87 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:09.639 years or so in television news and television documentaries, and 88 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.879 of course now in books, and so you know, I 89 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:18.839 have a pretty extensive relationship with the press, and so 90 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.439 with documentary films. I started making those when I was 91 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:29.279 in college and throughout my graduate school studies in New York, 92 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:32.399 and then when I went to San Francisco. I lived 93 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.040 two years in San Francisco, and I made a two 94 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:39.519 part documentary with another filmmaker for ABC Nightline. And so 95 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:44.199 I've sort of when I've worked for different television network, 96 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:49.040 so Fox News Channel, I've worked for WCBS television, ABC 97 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:53.800 Network Radio. I've always done both long form and short 98 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:59.879 form journalism projects, and of course those do include documentaries. 99 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.639 And so when I was in San Francisco with Fox 100 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:06.240 News Channel, I was assigned to work on the Gary 101 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.720 Condit case, which I'm assuming many people in your audience 102 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.639 would would remember. Dan, Do you remember the Gary Condit 103 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.360 case from you know, two thousand and one. So I 104 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.240 think that was probably the case I've spent the most 105 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.680 time on. And of course that was a US congressman 106 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.639 who's was having it was married and having an affair 107 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.160 with his intern, and then she went missing and he 108 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.920 fell under suspicion, and so this was, you know, a 109 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.600 pretty deep dive for me into working on a longer 110 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:42.839 project and also just sort of the day to day 111 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.040 grind of working for a twenty four hour news channel 112 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:52.439 on really gathering the visuals and the sources for a 113 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:56.439 crime story. And I think that case really got me 114 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.480 hooked on true crime and true crime tailor, and so 115 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:05.079 that sort of extended. I've done, you know, sports documentaries, 116 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:09.199 I've done various I did the one I did for 117 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.800 Nightline was on the rise and fall of UH dot 118 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.959 Coms in San Francisco. So I have, you know, as 119 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.480 any news producer would, I've had a bil lot of 120 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:23.680 varying experiences, but true crime is certainly what is interested 121 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:27.079 me the most, which is why I've pursued this in books. 122 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:31.639 So the thing that's interesting, I think, at least about 123 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.319 being a documentary producer and television producer and then turning 124 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.399 and pivoting your career to write about these these things 125 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.199 and books is of course it's so different, And people 126 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.279 ask me, how do you go from you know, being 127 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:48.160 involved with documentaries and writing these very short sentences for 128 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.800 television broadcasts, so then you know, constructing an entire book 129 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.279 that's long form. And I think that I found that 130 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.800 my love of documentaries and my love of visuals and 131 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.920 my appreciation and understanding of visuals have served me very well, 132 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:09.680 particularly with this book, because it's not easy turning the 133 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.439 smog into a boogeyman. And that's what you have to 134 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.199 do when you're writing a book. You have to, you know, 135 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.079 take this this thing. For me, in my case, of course, 136 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.720 it was pollution and describe it in such a way 137 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:24.959 that you know, somebody should be able to close their 138 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.879 eyes and really smell it and feel it and taste 139 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.879 it and understand what it feels like to have you know, 140 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:35.759 smoke particles burn the inside of your throat, and you know, 141 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:40.840 all of the sensory things that come with being caught 142 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.799 in a five day long smog have to come across 143 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:46.960 in the page. And so I think that my work 144 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:49.559 with documentaries really helped me in that sense. 145 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:56.080 Absolutely, this is incredibly visual, and you have definitely succeeded 146 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:04.200 in conveying that or and that incredible presence of the 147 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:08.679 smog and devastation. Can you talk about your work on 148 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:13.279 the Texas Board for Actual Innocence? And you mentioned in 149 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:17.320 early in your book that also that your father was 150 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.559 a criminal defense attorney. Tell us a little bit about 151 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:24.080 this work with the Texas Board for Actual Innocence And 152 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:27.519 if your father was an influence at all on how 153 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.759 much of an influence as a criminal defense attorney. 154 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:36.320 Sure, So my father, who has had passed away in 155 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.960 two thousand and five, my entire life was a criminal 156 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:43.399 law professor. He was a criminal defense attorney for a 157 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.600 short period and then he went into teaching and he 158 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:48.960 was a criminal law professor at the University of Texas 159 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:51.559 School Law, which is one of the best law schools 160 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.600 in the country, for thirty seven years. And he started 161 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.399 several different types of clinics for students to come and 162 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:01.720 gain experience sort of this real life experience, and one 163 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.000 of them before he died, was the what they called 164 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.759 the Actual Innocence Clinic, and it was it's was run 165 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.360 under a nonprofit that was separate from the university called 166 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:16.840 the Texas Center for Actual Innocence. So my father had 167 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:21.000 this sort of dream of really delving into these cases, 168 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:26.879 these claims from prisoners, which which you know, the nonprofit 169 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:30.360 organization received hundreds and then thousands of letters when it 170 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:34.000 really started of claims of actual innocence from prisoners. And 171 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:35.840 so my dad and I would talk about it quite 172 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:38.399 a lot. And you know, I grew up talking about law. 173 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.360 I've got a couple of cops in my family. I've 174 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.399 got a couple of attorneys in my family. And my 175 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:47.480 father and I always debated, you know, law, and he 176 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:52.679 worked particularly in juvenile justice, so he would work to 177 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:57.360 create laws that would help protect privacy for juveniles, but 178 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:01.679 also you know, kind of create strict guidelines. And so 179 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:03.879 there was always a lot to debate in our house. 180 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:06.080 And when I became a journalist, there was even more 181 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.120 to debate, and so he and I would talk. We 182 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:12.480 would talk quite a lot about you know, law and 183 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.120 order and what's right and what's wrong, and what laws 184 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.159 are working in one art. And so when he started 185 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.240 this clinic, I was really intrigued and we talked about 186 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.600 a lot. But unfortunately, when he started the clinic, he 187 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:28.639 was sort of in the downward slide of dying of 188 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:35.200 lung cancer, and so he never lived to see an exoneration, 189 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.080 which is what he really wanted to see the most, 190 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.080 was the clinic actually and achieve an exoneration, and we 191 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:44.240 ended up achieving two, which was wonderful, but it was 192 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.039 after he died, So before he died, he and I talked, 193 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:48.679 and he said, you know, I would like you to 194 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.519 become involved in the clinic as much as you can. 195 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.240 And at this point, I was still living in New York. 196 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.120 I was not moved back to Austin, Texas. I was 197 00:11:57.159 --> 00:11:59.799 at WCBS in New York. I was teaching full time 198 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:04.200 Fordham University, and so I had quite a full life, 199 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.960 and you know, I was making documentaries. But I said, sure, 200 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.120 you know, if I end up back in Austin, I'll 201 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.039 come and help. And then when he died, I came 202 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.879 back to Austin and I just never left. I wanted 203 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.519 to build my life here. And I started teaching at 204 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.360 the University of Texas School of Journalism as an adjunct professor. 205 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:23.720 And I spoke to my boss and I said, listen, 206 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:26.759 I think that there's a really good collaboration between the 207 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.159 School of Journalism and the actual nessent clinic at the 208 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.960 law school. I think that I, as a journalist someone 209 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:37.799 who's teaching other young journalists, I think we can join 210 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:41.519 the young journalists together with the young law school students 211 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.600 and we can all teach together. Because I think that 212 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.960 there are many things that journalists can teach law students 213 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.799 and lawyers quite frankly, about how to speak with people, 214 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:56.000 how to interview people, you know, I think people putting 215 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.799 people at ease, which sometimes attorneys aren't so great at doing. 216 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:02.559 And so we started this collaboration and it was really 217 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:05.879 really positive. There was a case already in the works 218 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:07.759 when I got there. I didn't have anything to do 219 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.279 is except that consulted somewhat on the media aspect of it. 220 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:14.240 But we had an exoneration of two men a few 221 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.480 years after my father died, who were in prison for 222 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.559 twelve years for a murder that they didn't commit, and 223 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.879 because of our clinic's work, they were released, and so 224 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.440 that was a really it was very bittersweet, I think 225 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.840 for me, because my father would have been thrilled and 226 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.200 this book, this book is very bittersweet for me because 227 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.600 I think it would have been I think I'm very 228 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.360 proud of the book the way it is now, but 229 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.480 for some reason, I feel like it would have had 230 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.200 even more depth had he been alive, and he and 231 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.600 I would have really been able to hash things out 232 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:48.879 because I know, Dan, you and I talked about this 233 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:53.480 briefly offline, that there are a lot of nuances and 234 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:57.240 intricacies with this case, and it's a wrongful conviction case 235 00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:59.240 in the book, and so I think it would have 236 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.519 been a very live, we probably year long discussion with 237 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:03.759 my father had he lived. 238 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.039 Absolutely, Now let's talk about let's get right to this 239 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.120 because we have so much to cover and it's such 240 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.120 a fascinating complex story. So as you do, you set 241 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:19.360 this story in nineteen fifty two in the winter in London, 242 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.960 and London being the most populous city in the world 243 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.080 at that time, and also you talk about the state 244 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:30.600 of energy at that time, how people, what energy sources 245 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.639 there were, and that's of course was coal, but you 246 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.120 talk about the specific type of coal, the coal that 247 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.919 wealthier people might use, in the coal that the everyday 248 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.000 not so wealthy person used. So tell us a little 249 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:45.399 bit about nineteen fifty two in the winter and the 250 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:47.919 confluence of events. As you talk about, there had been 251 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:53.279 pasted environmental type disasters a fog like this, but this 252 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:55.960 was unique. So tell us about what was happening in 253 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.440 the winter of nineteen fifty two in London. 254 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.799 Well, I'll give you a quick little around the world 255 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.240 history of the London and fuel. So London depended and 256 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.080 the city of London from its sort of origin, and 257 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:16.600 that area depended on wood for fuel for course hundreds 258 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.000 and thousands of years until the city began to expand 259 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.120 and all the woods were being cut down and it 260 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.559 became too expensive. So that's the switch to coal. And 261 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.159 there were pieces of coal that used to wash up 262 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.320 onto the shore of the sea and England and people 263 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.159 collect them, and it was this really brown, nasty, soft, 264 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.399 crumbly coal. And you had to burn four times the 265 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.240 amount of coal of this brown coal to get the 266 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.559 warmth from a quarter of the amount of black coal. 267 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.399 So if we fast forward now to nineteen fifty two, 268 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.840 you have a city that has experienced hundreds of years 269 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.639 of smog because it's, as you said before, it's the 270 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:01.600 world's most populous city. It is the world's most industrialized 271 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.559 city at the time. So you have in the area 272 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.559 forty which is an awful lot for a small city 273 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:14.440 like London, forty coal fueled power plants pumping out pollution 274 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.159 around the clock in a in a very small space 275 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.440 right of London. Then you have more than eight million 276 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.720 people burning this cheap coal. So they were they're sort 277 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.440 of if we're gonna keep it very simple, there were 278 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.080 two types of coal but the quote unquote clean coal, 279 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.159 which we know there's no such thing as clean coal, 280 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.240 but the black coal that has the very high carbon 281 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.559 content that you can burn and it, you know, puts 282 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.200 off quite a lot of heat and not as much 283 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:44.840 smoke as smoke, there's still a lot of toxins, there's 284 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.360 still a lot of sulfur dioxide and smoke particles. But 285 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.039 compared to the other stuff, the cheap stuff you were 286 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.440 referring to was this brown coal that they nicknamed nutty 287 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.799 slack in a very low carbon content, high moisture content, 288 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:01.440 and you had to burn an awful lot of it, 289 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.200 and most of it was brown dust with little bits, 290 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:10.119 little nuts of coal, and when it burned, it sparked 291 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.319 and smoked and put off very little heat. So you 292 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.039 can imagine how much coal of this brown coal you 293 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.559 had to put onto your fireplace to create warmth a lot. 294 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:24.640 So what happened is this perfect storm in nineteen fifty two, 295 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.799 the first week of nineteen fifty two, it was the 296 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.599 coldest week of the year that they have experienced, and 297 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:35.519 you have more than eight million people stoking a fire 298 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:41.119 coal fireplace, and you've got forty power plants churning out 299 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.839 all sorts of particles and pollution. The city had just 300 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:51.240 a few months earlier suspended permanently suspended its electric tram 301 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.640 system and replaced it with those beautiful red double decker 302 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.640 buses that people who are not so much except their 303 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.799 diesel fueled. And so there's coming off of that, and 304 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:07.000 so there's this incredible combination of pollutions from all these 305 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.599 different sources. And here comes on the fifth of December 306 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.200 a anti cyclone, which is a fancy word for a 307 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:20.519 high pressure system that floats over London and stops right 308 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.640 over the city. And this anti cyclone creates a lid. 309 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.720 It's a weather current and it creates a lid over 310 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:29.200 the city that traps the air from the ground to 311 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:32.599 this cloud cover and creates a smog. This is pretty common, 312 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.400 it's common everywhere. And what happens is when this air 313 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.599 is trapped, any pollution that is in the air also 314 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.960 becomes trapped. It's really not allowed outside into the atmosphere. 315 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:44.680 All it takes is a little wind, a low pressure 316 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.799 system to come in and push away this high pressure 317 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:51.480 system and open the lid. And that normally would happen. 318 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.240 It would be you know, a few hours, or it 319 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.079 would be a day or two at the very most, 320 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.640 and then the system would go. This one lasted five days, 321 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.039 no win mil on all of the weather reports that 322 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.759 I looked at zero wind for five days. So there's 323 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.039 a litter of the city, no wind, nowhere to go, 324 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.559 and the most polluted city in the world, with all 325 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.559 of these people burning more and more cold because it's 326 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:23.759 really cold. And so by the end there were thousands 327 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:27.440 of people who died and continued to die from December 328 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.200 of nineteen fifty two all the way until March. And 329 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.559 that was I think a conservative cutoff for sure. I 330 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.480 think that probably there were many many meat for years, 331 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.759 people whose lives were shortened or died, you know, within 332 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.920 the year. But just to create some sort of a cutoff, 333 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.279 the scientists in the government had said, let's, you know, 334 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.519 make it this first week of March. So by the 335 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:58.319 end the government had admitted that four thousand people died. However, 336 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.680 about forty fifty years later, a group of scientist from 337 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.000 Cornebigie Carnegie Mellon suggested and then confirmed that it was 338 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.680 an additional eight thousand, So a total of twelve thousand 339 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:13.599 people died, which made it four thousand, made it Dan 340 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.759 the world's deadliest air pollution disaster. But of course twelve 341 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.920 thousand is a phenomenal number. So it was at a 342 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:28.039 crisis that the British government and the British public and 343 00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.720 the British press never recognized as a crisis. 344 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:41.039 Incredible. Let's go back to nineteen forty nine to ten 345 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.079 Rillington Place and John Reginald Christie's and he is a 346 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:50.440 place with a garden. So tell us about ten Rillington 347 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:55.200 Place and also his neighbors Tim and Beryl. If we 348 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.160 talk about again we alluded to this incredible wrongful conviction. 349 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.920 Let's talk about these two, these two couples that hung 350 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.160 out together next door at ten Willington Place. 351 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.720 Sure, I almost want your listeners to grab a piece 352 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:14.759 of paper and a pencil, because there's a lot of 353 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:19.640 information about this case, but it's so incredibly fascinating, So, 354 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.119 you know, being involved with the actual essence clinic, I 355 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:24.559 had heard of this case of Timothy Evans and this 356 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:28.640 wrongful conviction and then a wrongful execution. It's one of 357 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.039 the most well known cases and it's certainly one of 358 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.480 the most dramatic. So I went into this considering it 359 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.799 to be an investigation but thinking that, you know, I 360 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.680 was going to agree with everyone else, and we'll talk 361 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.799 about what everybody else things happened a little bit later, 362 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:45.880 and I don't necessarily agree, And I know, Dan, you 363 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.640 want to talk a little bit about that. So let's 364 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:54.160 start with John Reginald Christy, a quiet and assuming man 365 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.839 who had a rough go of it early in life, 366 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.799 had some major embarrassments with women early on, and it created, 367 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.839 you know, a kind of a bitter, angry, resentful man 368 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:12.799 who figured out a way to really really get that 369 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:18.599 anger out. And it started really in nineteen forty three 370 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.480 with him when he met a woman in the middle 371 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.400 of the war and he was a war reserve policeman 372 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:30.079 and looked moderately handsome in a uniform and he carried 373 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.920 on an affair with her in notting Hill. And at 374 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.319 the time, notting Hill was one of the worst areas 375 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.720 of London. It's very posh now, but it was a 376 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.640 horrible place. And Tim Rillington Place was smack in the 377 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.440 middle of notting Hill. So there was a lot of prostitution, 378 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.079 a lot of gambling, a lot of crime, a lot 379 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:54.119 of petty theft, a lot of murders, and the police 380 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:58.640 in notting Hill particularly were undermanned overpowered much of the time, 381 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.440 and so John Reginald Christy was not such a bad 382 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:07.559 catch as a as a man in that area. He 383 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:10.519 wasn't he didn't appear to be sleazy, he didn't appear 384 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.799 to be violent. He had money he offered to pay 385 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:17.960 for drinks, and so he carried on an affair with 386 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.160 a woman. Then he met named Ruth first and in 387 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.920 the middle of having relations, he thought that it would 388 00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:28.119 be fun to strangle her, and that's what he did. 389 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.640 And I think that that triggered him and he really 390 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.440 figured out that this was a method of murder that 391 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.799 he enjoyed, and so he buried her in the backyard 392 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.039 in forty three, and the next year he met another 393 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:46.559 woman named Muriel Edie and the same thing happened, except 394 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.960 what he becomes very interesting as a serial killer because 395 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:53.759 of his method, which I've never heard of this before. 396 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:59.000 And I was fascinated with William here and William Burke, 397 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.559 you know, the famous Brews from Scotland. I'm very interested 398 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.640 in cases with I think a unique killing style. And 399 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.119 what Christy did was this next woman in nineteen forty four. 400 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.599 It's really should be noted because in nineteen forty four 401 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.000