WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Jack.

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to talk to you today about a

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<v Speaker 2>way that you can help support the podcast if you're

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<v Speaker 2>not already to support the channel is to become a

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<v Speaker 2>Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at

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<v Speaker 2>just five dollars a month, and when you sign up,

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<v Speaker 2>you get access to all of our episodes add free.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also

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<v Speaker 2>do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this

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<v Speaker 2>is the biggest and best way that you can support

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<v Speaker 2>the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to, and

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<v Speaker 2>we really appreciate that, So go and check us out

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<v Speaker 2>at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, Cobert Ops.

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<v Speaker 1>Spiona.

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<v Speaker 2>The Team House with your hosts, Jack Burphy and David

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<v Speaker 2>Bark to a Christmas edition of the Team House. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a pre recorded episode so we can all be

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<v Speaker 2>with our families around the holidays. Hope everyone's having a

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<v Speaker 2>good one out there, as you know. I'm Jack, This

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<v Speaker 2>is Dave, and our guest on tonight's show is Jason Davis.

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<v Speaker 2>Jason served in a number of infantry assignments, a number

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<v Speaker 2>of seventy fifth rangeer Regimen assignments and then a few

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<v Speaker 2>assignments with the Asymmetrical Warfare Group and Special Operations Command.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for coming and joining us in studio today.

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<v Speaker 2>Jason works with Ventus developing resproberratory respiratory respiratory protection for soldiers,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll get into all of that as well. So, Jason,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for joining us tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's start at the beginning. We usually start off

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the guest's origin story, and I think yours

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<v Speaker 2>is definitely worth going down memory lane. Alit because your grandfather,

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<v Speaker 2>your father, and your uncle were all rangers.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a family, Laura.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom likes to say that she's the wife, daughter, sister,

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<v Speaker 1>mother of a ranger. And so my grandfather was a

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<v Speaker 1>fifth Ranger battalion and World War Two ranger. He says

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<v Speaker 1>he joined the Rangers as opposed to the paratroopers because

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<v Speaker 1>those paratroopers were crazy, which you look at what they did,

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<v Speaker 1>point to hawk, Now that's kind of crazy itself. And

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<v Speaker 1>then my father got told go to war, go to jail,

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<v Speaker 1>not not as a draftee, but because he got into

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<v Speaker 1>so much trouble as a kid, and so he likes

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<v Speaker 1>to say it, I enlisted in the Army because nobody

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<v Speaker 1>was going to tell me what to do. And then

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<v Speaker 1>you fast forward in nineteen seventy four and he's an

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<v Speaker 1>airborne Ranger medic, you know, plank owner of one seventy

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<v Speaker 1>five when he stands that up at Fort Stewart in

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<v Speaker 1>those days before we moved over to a Hunter Army. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so my dad met my uncle inside of first Ranger Battalion.

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<v Speaker 1>My uncle was a beconger in those days. My dad

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<v Speaker 1>was in HHC and my uncle took my dad, who

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<v Speaker 1>was from the Washington, Oregon area, and my uncle's from Hollywood, Florida.

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<v Speaker 1>And so my uncle took my dad home for Christmas,

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<v Speaker 1>met my mom, and you know, a couple of years later,

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<v Speaker 1>next generation is born. That's fantastic. So it never never

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<v Speaker 1>had any designs for me to go into the military,

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<v Speaker 1>never pushed me into the military, but was always proud

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, kind of accidental the family business. I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>So where did you grow up.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if your folks were in the military, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>presumably you moved around a lot. Obviously, you must have

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<v Speaker 2>grown up here in all these ranger stories too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't know you weren't a ranger if you

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<v Speaker 1>were in the army. I thought everybody in the Army

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<v Speaker 1>was a ranger. It's all I lived around. So I

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<v Speaker 1>was born in Alaska actually in nineteen seventy seven, which

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<v Speaker 1>on my dad's file it says he was an Arctic

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<v Speaker 1>Warfare instructor through most of Vietnam, and so it's a

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<v Speaker 1>really cool kind of you know, he was up there

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<v Speaker 1>for about six months when I was born, went to Texas,

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<v Speaker 1>where my sister was born, and my dad went to

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<v Speaker 1>PA school, which in those days they were you know,

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<v Speaker 1>became warrant officers at the end of that, and then

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<v Speaker 1>spent most of the rest of my life bouncing around

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<v Speaker 1>the Southeast Georgia and North Carolina, the usual places that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, rangers go to, and infantry guys in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>And then my dad was assigned back to Ninth Man Chew.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of us old guys the Ninth Man Chew up

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<v Speaker 1>in Alaska. Fairbanks were basically my formative years until I

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<v Speaker 1>was about ten or ten or twelve, and then moved

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<v Speaker 1>my dad retired in nineteen eighty eight and we moved

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<v Speaker 1>to a little town in Oregon called Ontario, Oregon, and

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<v Speaker 1>so right on the Oregon Idaho border.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, you guys know Orrida Fries.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Oregon Idaho border, that's Rita and so that

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<v Speaker 1>plants right there. So that's what we're famous for. So

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<v Speaker 1>now we're famous for prisons and Rita fries. And so

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<v Speaker 1>our big city was Boise, Idaho. And then yeah, from there,

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<v Speaker 1>I went to college in New York. So at New

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<v Speaker 1>York University, where I met my wife and ended up

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<v Speaker 1>going to ROTC at Fordham University. I thought I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to get away from the military when I left the house,

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<v Speaker 1>and then realized I gravitated right back towards those people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah you were, you were on track to be a

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<v Speaker 2>pinko liberal comedy.

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<v Speaker 1>What happened?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so let me back this up just a second.

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<v Speaker 1>So I applied to two colleges from my little town

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<v Speaker 1>in Ontario, Oregon, right, I think graduating sixty people or something.

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<v Speaker 1>I applied to West Point and I applied to n

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<v Speaker 1>y U skip Tish School of the Arts. Yeah, Stella Adler.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to be an actor.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved the theater. I still love the theater. I

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<v Speaker 1>love Shakespeare and my dad. I got accepted to both,

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<v Speaker 1>so I was hoping. I was hoping one would you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, reject me and kind of choose my life

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<v Speaker 1>track for me, right, because I either want to be

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<v Speaker 1>an actor or in the army, Like.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you feel pressure to go in the army?

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<v Speaker 4>Like was there a party that wanted West Point to

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<v Speaker 4>reject you so you could know?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I felt no pressure whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact, it was my dad who said, you

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<v Speaker 1>can always join the army whenever you want, but when

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<v Speaker 1>can you be a poor actor in New York City? Right? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And I took that advice, and I was always very thankful,

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<v Speaker 1>and to be honest, I thank my dad a lot

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<v Speaker 1>for this.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it really you know, put my outlook into perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason why I have my daughter here right now

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<v Speaker 1>is so that we can have this life experience together.

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<v Speaker 1>YEA cool trip, right, And so he set me on

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<v Speaker 1>the path for that life experience. I went there, and

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<v Speaker 1>within about six weeks I joined a Greek fraternity. I

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<v Speaker 1>stopped showing up to school, I started hanging out with

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<v Speaker 1>the ROTC kids, and by December I learned that I

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<v Speaker 1>really didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Like the acting.

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<v Speaker 1>Community at NYU, and it really wasn't the people that

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be around.

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<v Speaker 3>It not that they weren't.

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<v Speaker 1>Great people, they were. It just I had different interests, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and the fraternity tended to fill that a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more than Stella Adler did, and I think.

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<v Speaker 3>We were both happy for the break of each other.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I ended up spending most of my time

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<v Speaker 1>with my fraternity brothers. And you know, the rot SCENES

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<v Speaker 1>sounds so dated now, like twenty four years later, just

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<v Speaker 1>to say fraternity brothers and the RFTC guys and ROTC

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<v Speaker 1>for New York City in those days, I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>still the same now. Was run out of Fordham University,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's where the detachment was. And then if you

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<v Speaker 1>went to Columbia or NYU or Lincoln Center, Fordham or

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<v Speaker 1>any of the local SUNNI schools.

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<v Speaker 2>Columbia didn't have ROTC until they repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we used to have the Columbia students, and so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember the timeline for that, but so they

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<v Speaker 1>would come to Fordham to do ROTC if they wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to make sense, And so I ended up kind of

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<v Speaker 1>falling in love with the military from a user experience

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<v Speaker 1>as opposed to from a brat experience, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>grew up as a brat and I tried to break

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<v Speaker 1>away from it, and then realized that it was actually

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<v Speaker 1>what I loved. So I went right back to.

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<v Speaker 2>It and commissioned in two thousand and one, bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a pivotal year for this country and especially for somebody

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<v Speaker 2>commissioning into the military.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I got married and commissioned on the same day.

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<v Speaker 1>So Megan and I, who we'd met at NYU or

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<v Speaker 1>freshman year, stayed together basically most of college and then

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<v Speaker 1>got literally officially married like the week before my commissioning ceremony.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember getting out of the car. Nobody knows

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<v Speaker 1>we're married yet, Like it's just just she and I

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<v Speaker 1>and getting out of the car, and it was kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a drizzly, cold May day, you know, in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember one of the guys going, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they say, if it rains on your commissioning, you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to war. So that guy was right. And about three

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<v Speaker 1>months later I found myself in IOBC, and nine to

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<v Speaker 1>eleven occurred. While I was at the urban phase of IOBC.

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<v Speaker 1>My wife had just moved down from Fourteenth Street between

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<v Speaker 1>B and C and Lower Manhattan, where we'd had our

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<v Speaker 1>apartment for a couple of years. The week before the

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<v Speaker 1>towers went down. Would she was she did?

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<v Speaker 3>She have military members and her family. What did she

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<v Speaker 3>think about, I'm her family's nightmare.

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<v Speaker 1>So her so her her mom and dad are our hippies. Yeah, Uh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>her mom's a reformed hippie, her her dad is not.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's funny the older I get, the more I

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<v Speaker 1>connect with, you know, my my father in law than

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<v Speaker 1>than anybody else, I think.

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<v Speaker 3>But he was you know, like literally followed, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>followed a cult.

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<v Speaker 1>In India for a little while and came back and

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<v Speaker 1>had a commune very Garcia.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And and and you know in in the Ozarks,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like living in the oars with four hundred

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<v Speaker 1>acre apple farm like my father in law literally hand

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<v Speaker 1>makes his cab and like lives off the grid, like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, living living his values for sure. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>uh I met, Yeah, she she kind of. She was

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<v Speaker 1>born in Arkansas, lived in that lifestyle for quite some time.

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<v Speaker 1>When she was you know, about ten or so, her

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<v Speaker 1>mom and dad divorced. Her mom wanted a different lifestyle,

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<v Speaker 1>ended up going very conservative with her lifestyle to the

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<v Speaker 1>point where you know who she married. I was like, man,

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<v Speaker 1>you're a little bit right for me at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. Yeah, and moved to Asheville, North Carolina, where

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<v Speaker 1>she did her high school years and then went to

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<v Speaker 1>NYUS as a film major in fact, and we both decided.

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<v Speaker 3>We didn't fit into that community.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So my father in law is now an organic farmer

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<v Speaker 1>in Kawaii, on the island of Hawaii. He's been here

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<v Speaker 1>for or in Hawaii. He's been out there for about

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<v Speaker 1>twenty some odd years. He's uncle ned now And when

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<v Speaker 1>we lived on Hawaii, was always nice to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to spend some time on there. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So, like these massive life changes that happened in such

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<v Speaker 2>a short span of time, Yeah, is incredible. And then

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<v Speaker 2>you get assigned to the one hundred and first third of

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<v Speaker 2>the five o second Yeah, tell us about that. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean it sounds like by the time you get there,

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<v Speaker 2>you're kind of getting into the run up to the

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<v Speaker 2>Iraq invasion.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So if I don't know if you guys know this,

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<v Speaker 1>So when you when you're in IOBC as an infantry

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<v Speaker 1>officer in those days, it's expected you're going to ranger school,

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<v Speaker 1>like that's not really an option, right, And in the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of weeks of that, we're all getting ready

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<v Speaker 1>to go to ranger school. Hours come down, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>word comes in that if you're in the eighteenth Airborne Corps,

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00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, so one hundred and first Airborne, eighty second,

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<v Speaker 1>tenth Mountain Division, all the dr you deployed for combat

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<v Speaker 1>ready brigades, you get one shot at this that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>Period end. And so we all went to ranger school

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<v Speaker 1>like two weeks later as fast as we could. I

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<v Speaker 1>ended up breaking my foot that first week and so, which,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, another great lesson. So I still believe

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<v Speaker 1>to this day, if I'd been tougher, I could have

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<v Speaker 1>toughed it out. I broke a couple of metacarpals or

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<v Speaker 1>meta tarsal, don't know what they're called. In the foot.

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<v Speaker 1>I broke a couple of those things stress fracture. And

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<v Speaker 1>I still believe that if I could have been just

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit mentally tougher, I could have toughed that out.

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<v Speaker 1>It was my first taste of failure and I hated it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's interesting and you say, you still believe that, And

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<v Speaker 4>so it's sort of like that, that's I believe I

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<v Speaker 4>can fight five.

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<v Speaker 3>Guys with the same.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, right, right, because somebody's always got it harder, right, And.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I get that.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a defining moment in my life coming back

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<v Speaker 1>from ranger School without my tab and with my story.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, defining moment And I didn't want to feel

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<v Speaker 1>like that ever again, right, And so went to my

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<v Speaker 1>unit without my tab, with my story.

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<v Speaker 3>I showed up to my battalion commander.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, luckily he put me into adultiple tune to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of earn my way back into in

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<v Speaker 1>those days, you know, you had you earn your way

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<v Speaker 1>back into your tab. Had a great experience as a

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<v Speaker 1>Deltiple team leader that really learned a lot in those

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00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.679
<v Speaker 1>in those gun trucks in those days about how to

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<v Speaker 1>how to lead small teams and how to move you know,

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<v Speaker 1>guns around big guns. But really what it did for

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<v Speaker 1>me is it it gave me an appreciation of why

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<v Speaker 1>ranger School was important. And I really started to understand

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<v Speaker 1>now it wasn't about the tab, it was about the

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<v Speaker 1>mental toughness. It was about understanding how to lead yourself

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<v Speaker 1>in those times of you know, real turmoil, and then

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<v Speaker 1>how do you lead others when you yourself or just

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<v Speaker 1>want to cry rest of the time. And so that

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<v Speaker 1>was a defining moment for me when I understood how

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<v Speaker 1>important that training was. And when I went back, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a very different mentality. I was no longer interested

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<v Speaker 1>in surviving. I was interested in learning and getting better

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<v Speaker 1>at my craft because I knew we were going to war,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we thought we were going to war in

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<v Speaker 1>that first like ninety days, and we all thought we

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<v Speaker 1>were going to miss it if we didn't get to

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00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.799
<v Speaker 1>our unit and so have a little stress fracture was

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<v Speaker 1>a great excuse, you know, to get to the unit

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<v Speaker 1>that had to go to war. But really it taught

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<v Speaker 1>me what I needed to learn, which was how important

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<v Speaker 1>that training was. And so I went back. I got

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<v Speaker 1>that tab I would encourage everyone to try hard things

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<v Speaker 1>to the best of their ability. I was successful this

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<v Speaker 1>time because of the people who surrounded me and cared

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00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.759
<v Speaker 1>for me. And then the hundred and first deployed to

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<v Speaker 1>combat for the invasion of Iraq, and I was fortunate

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<v Speaker 1>enough to be assigned as a rifle platoon leader in

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<v Speaker 1>Baker Cumber b Company. Then with a ranger, former arranger

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<v Speaker 1>of platoon leaders, the company commander.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is sort of like I mean, it sounds

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<v Speaker 2>counterintuitive to some people watching this maybe, but if you're

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<v Speaker 2>an infantry platoon leader, I mean, this is the dream, right,

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<v Speaker 2>this is your dream. Yeah, you're gonna You're gonna lead

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<v Speaker 2>soldiers in combat right now.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I wanted to do.

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<v Speaker 4>Had one hundred first already been to Afghanistan, had they

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<v Speaker 4>had they done any rotations.

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00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:23.440
<v Speaker 1>I believe that Rocaissans, the Rokassan Brigade had had done

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00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.399
<v Speaker 1>an initial some initial work in Afghanistan. I had friends

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00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:28.159
<v Speaker 1>of mine in eighty second that had gone in and

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00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:30.039
<v Speaker 1>of course obviously the rangers at Rhino.

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00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.279
<v Speaker 3>You know that I ended up learning later, but I

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00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.039
<v Speaker 3>think they had some elements, especially in Afghanism. I would

304
00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:36.399
<v Speaker 3>have to double.

305
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>But hey, thank you go Speds.

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00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.440
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00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.120
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<v Speaker 5>Code house at check out code house h o us

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00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.080
<v Speaker 5>and to say, whopping fifty percent? Uh yeah, man, if

338
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:07.960
<v Speaker 5>you're a hot sleeper.

339
00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.960
<v Speaker 4>But when you were, when you guys were uh, sort

340
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.039
<v Speaker 4>of working up towards Iraq, there weren't just a whole

341
00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:19.240
<v Speaker 4>bunch of Afghanistan guys rolling around with combat pat you know,

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00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.320
<v Speaker 4>combat pats, no.

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00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:23.039
<v Speaker 1>No, very new, and we all thought we were going

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00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.440
<v Speaker 1>to miss it. Yeah, like we all thought that if

345
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.879
<v Speaker 1>we don't get into a unit that's going to war, yes,

346
00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:31.360
<v Speaker 1>this is our this is our mogadishi, this is our opportunity. Right,

347
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>were thinking a desert storm, right, I think in Vietnam? Yeah, absolutely,

348
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.840
<v Speaker 1>So in the work up for that for Iraq, what

349
00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.039
<v Speaker 1>what were your what did you think it was going

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00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>to be? What were you training for?

351
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.480
<v Speaker 3>And then were any of those things kind of wrong?

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00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:56.039
<v Speaker 1>That's a great question. We knew that there was going

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00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.200
<v Speaker 1>to be a lot of urban fighting, we didn't really

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00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.960
<v Speaker 1>understand what that was in those days. And so I

355
00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:07.000
<v Speaker 1>can remember we would have kind of opd's officer professional development,

356
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, with I had smoking. Joe Anderson was my

357
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.079
<v Speaker 1>brigade commander. So I don't know if you guys know,

358
00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:16.720
<v Speaker 1>General Joe Anderson retired as a three star phenomenal commander one.

359
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.960
<v Speaker 1>I have amazing stories about smoking Joe Anderson just being bulletproof.

360
00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:23.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he taught me what combat leadership looks like

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00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.759
<v Speaker 1>at the senior leader level. He set that example almost

362
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.160
<v Speaker 1>immediately for me. Anyway, I can remember Smoking Joe Anderson

363
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:36.039
<v Speaker 1>bringing in these different kind of OPD opportunities to hear

364
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.839
<v Speaker 1>from the experts at urban warfare. And we were talking

365
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.359
<v Speaker 1>to the police in Northern Ireland, and we were talking

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<v Speaker 1>to the cops in London. You know, we were the

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<v Speaker 1>IDF every once in a while getting in you know,

368
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<v Speaker 1>with the tunnels and some under subterranean like, we were

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00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.960
<v Speaker 1>taking the best that we could and we were training

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00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.079
<v Speaker 1>that in trenches. And so a trench is a hallway,

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<v Speaker 1>a bunker is a room, and that's the way we

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00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.079
<v Speaker 1>trained urban warfare in those days was on trench systems, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we I think in my mind I imagined

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00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.799
<v Speaker 1>it was going to look like Vietnam where you you

375
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.640
<v Speaker 1>know what we saw in movies where you helicopter in,

376
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:14.440
<v Speaker 1>because I'm in the uttern first, and clearly we're going

377
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.039
<v Speaker 1>to helicopter in and We're only a ninety day force

378
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.559
<v Speaker 1>by the way, too, We're only supposed to be there

379
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>ninety days and then we recover because then the big

380
00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.720
<v Speaker 1>infantry divisions and you know, come in. And I remember

381
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.039
<v Speaker 1>thinking that we're going to have kind of a we're

382
00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna Hilo in aerosolt and then when we get there,

383
00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.599
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be doing urban warfare through these buildings.

384
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.200
<v Speaker 1>And it was very much like that when we got

385
00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:43.680
<v Speaker 1>to the city centers. So you know, the the Karbala's,

386
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the mosls.

387
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:45.319
<v Speaker 3>You know.

388
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.440
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't in Fallujah, but I've heard it was very similar.

389
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.160
<v Speaker 1>But also I think what was striking was all of

390
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.440
<v Speaker 1>the outskirts fighting for key terrain. It's where I really

391
00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:59.640
<v Speaker 1>started to understand the importance of what key terrain meant

392
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:01.559
<v Speaker 1>at the level when there's you know, one or two

393
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>roads and you're fighting for a couple of key intersections. Uh,

394
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, the the fog of war of I need

395
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.720
<v Speaker 1>you to move your people here, and then you know,

396
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.480
<v Speaker 1>I forced road marched my platoon on the first day

397
00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.720
<v Speaker 1>of combat for like twenty miles to get to this

398
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:19.200
<v Speaker 1>anti armor blocking position and there's a tank company there,

399
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.559
<v Speaker 1>so we felt kind of useless. So they literally just

400
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:24.319
<v Speaker 1>got us into the shooting, like the hell, you know,

401
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:26.519
<v Speaker 1>let let us get our shoot on is basically it

402
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.079
<v Speaker 1>was it. So it was a very It was very

403
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.680
<v Speaker 1>much I think what we were expecting, at least in

404
00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.640
<v Speaker 1>the in the infantry side of it. It definitely met

405
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:40.359
<v Speaker 1>my expectations. I mean it was it was full kinetic, Yeah,

406
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:42.039
<v Speaker 1>it was. It was.

407
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.839
<v Speaker 3>It was scary and fun all at the same time.

408
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.640
<v Speaker 4>Right, So on this showing, many like it, Like we

409
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:52.279
<v Speaker 4>often have people from Special Operations from rangers and you know,

410
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.400
<v Speaker 4>and we've said this before that the special Operations mission

411
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.519
<v Speaker 4>was very sort of gucci, right, you know, you had

412
00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.839
<v Speaker 4>the support, you usually the transportation, you're it was generally

413
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.440
<v Speaker 4>like in and out type of ops for a specific target.

414
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:11.240
<v Speaker 4>What what don't people understand? What stories aren't told about

415
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.799
<v Speaker 4>conventional military who were out there hooking Jabbin with a

416
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.799
<v Speaker 4>tenth of the resources. Yeah, and for prolonged periods.

417
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:22.079
<v Speaker 3>What are some of the stories or things that you

418
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:27.000
<v Speaker 3>think people should know about the conventional military. I think

419
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.640
<v Speaker 3>it's exceptionally hard.

420
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:33.160
<v Speaker 1>I think we look at you know, we don't make

421
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.160
<v Speaker 1>a lot of movies about the you know, like the

422
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:35.799
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and.

423
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.440
<v Speaker 3>First story, I mean third Infantry Division.

424
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Or like when I was a kid growing up, there

425
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.960
<v Speaker 1>was you know audio Murphy movies and you know, things

426
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:43.359
<v Speaker 1>like that were going on at World War Two. What

427
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.839
<v Speaker 1>you see these days is primarily the Special Operations community,

428
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.599
<v Speaker 1>so seals and lots of seals, you know, rangers and

429
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:54.240
<v Speaker 1>other units that are that are their stories are getting told.

430
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.960
<v Speaker 1>What's not getting told is how separating the enemy from

431
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:04.799
<v Speaker 1>the populace while at nighttime affair and very dangerous work

432
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.680
<v Speaker 1>when you're going after you very dangerous people, high profile

433
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.839
<v Speaker 1>targets that day in and day out with the people

434
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.480
<v Speaker 1>and feeling the empathy for the small child and for

435
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:20.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, the animals, and you just living amongst that

436
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.799
<v Speaker 1>war and that kind of atrocity in some cases of

437
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 1>what you're watching people have to survive through. I think

438
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:31.000
<v Speaker 1>they don't understand the toll that that ultimately takes on.

439
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Just these are humans, These are people, and we are

440
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:40.039
<v Speaker 1>really the most caring and I think discriminatory military and history,

441
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.000
<v Speaker 1>that's arguable, I suppose, but you know, the American soldier

442
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.039
<v Speaker 1>in and of themselves is highly trained, highly empathetic, really

443
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>wants to do well and to do good, and we

444
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:54.400
<v Speaker 1>put them in these situations where it's extremely dangerous, there's

445
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.359
<v Speaker 1>no right answer for what you're.

446
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:58.680
<v Speaker 3>Doing, and we're asking them to figure it out.

447
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Right, they do for the most part, And typically all

448
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.960
<v Speaker 1>we hear about is the mistakes. But what you don't

449
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:07.839
<v Speaker 1>see is the amazing things those guys and gals are

450
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:10.480
<v Speaker 1>doing every single day out there to keep the lights

451
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>on and the people safe. And I think it is an.

452
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.240
<v Speaker 3>Untold story for the most part.

453
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.519
<v Speaker 1>But when I talked to, you know, my brothers and

454
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:21.519
<v Speaker 1>sisters who spent you know, I did, you know, a

455
00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:24.599
<v Speaker 1>good portion five or six years of my career fully

456
00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.640
<v Speaker 1>conventional at the beginning, and then had a solid, you know,

457
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.559
<v Speaker 1>two or three years of conventional right in between it again,

458
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.160
<v Speaker 1>and those were the hardest and the most rewarding jobs

459
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:36.799
<v Speaker 1>that I really.

460
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Had in the military.

461
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.839
<v Speaker 1>I loved everything I did inside of the special operations

462
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.960
<v Speaker 1>community or the asymmetric warfare community. I loved all of it,

463
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.359
<v Speaker 1>but it was they were very different. It felt like

464
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.839
<v Speaker 1>this was this was leadership right at its base level.

465
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.359
<v Speaker 1>And when you talk about leading rangers, for example, I mean,

466
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I used to laugh, Rangers don't need leadership like that.

467
00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.039
<v Speaker 1>You know, leadership is providing purpose, direction, and motivation, and

468
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.279
<v Speaker 1>they need almost none of those things. They're better ranger.

469
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>PL say that was it, Ray McFadden, he's a two

470
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.839
<v Speaker 2>seven five Yeah, MCPAD and two seven five PL.

471
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 1>You said very much the same thing. Yeah. If you

472
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.960
<v Speaker 1>think about you know that these are guys you can

473
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.240
<v Speaker 1>I had to explain to me once. Imagine the best

474
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.599
<v Speaker 1>non commissioned officer, the best sergeant in your mind. You

475
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:26.519
<v Speaker 1>know that you're just the caricature of this is the

476
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.880
<v Speaker 1>guy that I want with me. Uh and imagine everybody

477
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>is that guy, right, And and so it's a very

478
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.279
<v Speaker 1>unique culture and it's a very you know, we're we'reth

479
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.640
<v Speaker 1>the summer help right, like we're coming in to help you.

480
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.680
<v Speaker 1>We're not really a part of that internal n CEO community,

481
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.960
<v Speaker 1>although we try to be, and that core of non

482
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:49.519
<v Speaker 1>commissioned officers drives the special operations community deeply. And then

483
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.759
<v Speaker 1>you go out into the conventional ranks and we're raising

484
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:56.319
<v Speaker 1>those n c O s. What you're gonna do? PL? Right, yeah, right, yeah, right,

485
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.440
<v Speaker 1>well yeah, and the rangers they're not gonna ask, right,

486
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>They're just gonna do it. Yeah.

487
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's again, the conventional story is one that is

488
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:10.000
<v Speaker 4>very important to me, and again did because you were

489
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:13.640
<v Speaker 4>an auser and you grew up, you know, seeing you know,

490
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.920
<v Speaker 4>you went through the ranks as officer. One of the

491
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 4>things is an outsider looking at that and then talking

492
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:22.559
<v Speaker 4>to guys who were stationed out these.

493
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.440
<v Speaker 3>Little cops with no support or you know, in.

494
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 4>These places that it's like somebody looked at that and said,

495
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:32.440
<v Speaker 4>let's put twenty guys there to draw fire, but not

496
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.240
<v Speaker 4>give them any resources, any assets to actually do anything.

497
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:42.880
<v Speaker 4>At any point, were you frustrated by by senior leadership,

498
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:46.240
<v Speaker 4>by what seemed to be disconnected decision making.

499
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 1>That's a really complicated question. I'm going to try to

500
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:55.079
<v Speaker 1>give you a simple answer. Okay, we we were trying

501
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 1>to enact a new doctrine, you know, so coin kind

502
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:02.799
<v Speaker 1>of insurgency, and you know, I was fortunate enough to

503
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.039
<v Speaker 1>be on the periphery of some of the General Petraeus

504
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.079
<v Speaker 1>kind of building this in one hundred and first while

505
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 1>I was in his command in the hundred and first.

506
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 3>It was in command one hundred first in.

507
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Those days, and I believe his doctrine was the best

508
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:19.480
<v Speaker 1>available at the time, and I still do to a respect.

509
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:25.119
<v Speaker 1>I think counterinsurgency is ridiculously hard. And I think the

510
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:29.119
<v Speaker 1>tactic of placing those small outposts was designed to get

511
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, in those days, we talked about it as

512
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.759
<v Speaker 1>a cop on every corner, right, get get you know,

513
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.559
<v Speaker 1>the rule of law and order out into the hinter lens,

514
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.920
<v Speaker 1>so that we can control those spaces, or at least

515
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 1>compete for them. Right. And so when you see things

516
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.079
<v Speaker 1>like you know, cop keeting or you know, and I had,

517
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, in my eighty second airborne days, you know,

518
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.880
<v Speaker 1>I had two outposts with a company headquarters that I

519
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.400
<v Speaker 1>shared with a Polish company, Polish Airborne Company. It's a

520
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:55.759
<v Speaker 1>whole different story and a whole different leadership lessons there.

521
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:57.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, So you've got.

522
00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Two platoon outposts and then a platoon plus company headquarters

523
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.319
<v Speaker 1>that shares a forward operating base with a Polish Airborne company.

524
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:08.559
<v Speaker 1>And then I've got these rifle platoons that literally, you know,

525
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.880
<v Speaker 1>nine months out of the year, you can't drive to them, right,

526
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:14.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, the wadies fill up, you can't get these

527
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, ten thousand pound humvys up armored humb's down

528
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.960
<v Speaker 1>these dirt paths that are flooded, and so these guys

529
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:26.920
<v Speaker 1>can get stuck there with only aircraft able to touch them, right,

530
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.079
<v Speaker 1>And so if you're asking me to argue the doctrine,

531
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:34.759
<v Speaker 1>I would say, I think the idea was correct, which

532
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>was we assume more risk in order to connect more

533
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:43.480
<v Speaker 1>deeply with the population so that we can compete with

534
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>that populate or for that popularly right with the enemy.

535
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:50.119
<v Speaker 3>With the Taliban in those days. I think that was

536
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:51.680
<v Speaker 3>the right approach.

537
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:55.880
<v Speaker 1>The application of it was not always the result that

538
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.200
<v Speaker 1>we want, right, Okay, And so I would say that

539
00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:01.319
<v Speaker 1>you know Colonel Bill Ausland, if you know him, but

540
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.920
<v Speaker 1>he uh, he he, you know, he pushed back on

541
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:07.200
<v Speaker 1>on some of that, you know, when when people started

542
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.079
<v Speaker 1>arguing that the coin doctrine you know, was a mistake

543
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.559
<v Speaker 1>and that he is a commander should have changed those things.

544
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:15.359
<v Speaker 1>And you know that that was the only doctrine we

545
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.559
<v Speaker 1>had at that point to separate the enemy from the people.

546
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 3>So I think it was the right answer of your

547
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 3>nation building.

548
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Now, the different question might be should we have been

549
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:26.440
<v Speaker 1>nation building right? Uh?

550
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.240
<v Speaker 3>And and so there I don't know the right answer, but.

551
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.160
<v Speaker 1>That's what we did. Yeah, fascinating did that answer? It did?

552
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

553
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.519
<v Speaker 1>It did?

554
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.599
<v Speaker 2>And tell us about during the I guess maybe the

555
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.119
<v Speaker 2>tail end of this deployment brushing across.

556
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>The I E. D. Task Force. Yeah, yeah, so that's

557
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.680
<v Speaker 1>so we in one hundred and first we we basically

558
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:50.799
<v Speaker 1>went burmed to Mosl and so for you know, for

559
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:52.839
<v Speaker 1>the old timers, we crossed the berm from you know,

560
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Kuwait and to Iraq and then did the thunder runs

561
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 1>and we were a assaulting in on top of third

562
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>idea and jumping from you know, city to city, urban

563
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.319
<v Speaker 1>center to urban center and fighting those urban fights and

564
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.440
<v Speaker 1>getting on helicopters and flying to the next one, right,

565
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and we end up in Mosol is kind of the

566
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.279
<v Speaker 1>end of it. And so now we're in this fob,

567
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, which is really it was like a it

568
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.119
<v Speaker 1>was like CAMPZ is what we called it, because somebody

569
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 1>was trying to steal copper wire out of the you know,

570
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.799
<v Speaker 1>the lights before we got there, and he got fried.

571
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:21.720
<v Speaker 1>And so there's a you know, there's literally a burnt

572
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:24.200
<v Speaker 1>corpse where my platoon is supposed to bed down like

573
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 1>hanging up in the wires. Right, and so our first

574
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.640
<v Speaker 1>task is to you know kind of clean up our

575
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.599
<v Speaker 1>living space. So we called it Camp Z because Z's dead.

576
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:34.000
<v Speaker 1>That's the kind of dark humor yeah, you know, in

577
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 1>the military, particularly in those days, and I can remember

578
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.119
<v Speaker 1>doing things like gator patrols, remember the gators, the little

579
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.799
<v Speaker 1>like a little look like little lawnmowers, you know, with

580
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:45.880
<v Speaker 1>with the trunk in the back. And I can remember

581
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.440
<v Speaker 1>three two, three o'clock in the morning pulling my shift

582
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.960
<v Speaker 1>right so platoon later with an RTO and a saw

583
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:54.279
<v Speaker 1>in the front of this thing, driving through the streets

584
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:55.839
<v Speaker 1>a mosl at two o'clock on a.

585
00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:56.640
<v Speaker 3>Gator on a gate.

586
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, keeping the peace, Yeah, just making sure

587
00:28:59.279 --> 00:28:59.960
<v Speaker 1>everything's okay.

588
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so gators, I can industrial like slow ATV in

589
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:05.720
<v Speaker 4>a way I guess the way it's.

590
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 1>More like a golf car. Yeah, that's the way to

591
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 1>put yea yeah. Yeah, but it was it was all

592
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:11.799
<v Speaker 1>we had in the infantry in these days. We didn't

593
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:13.799
<v Speaker 1>have any vehicles. Yeah, and so we were trying to,

594
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, to patrol cop on every corner.

595
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Could you separate the enemy from the populace?

596
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:22.599
<v Speaker 1>And I can remember we were starting to hear this

597
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>thing called the improvised explosive device, and I honestly didn't

598
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.400
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it or understand it. In those days. We

599
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:32.640
<v Speaker 1>were driving around and you know, no skin vehicles, you know,

600
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.720
<v Speaker 1>inside every every air rifle company had one, you know,

601
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.920
<v Speaker 1>cargo humdy and so we'd just be in the back

602
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.319
<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, squads at a time, moving around,

603
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:47.000
<v Speaker 1>and we started seeing new units that were starting to

604
00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:50.200
<v Speaker 1>rotate in to rip us out, right after thirteen months

605
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>in theater, ripping us out, having these like welded plates

606
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 1>coming with their humbies, and we were like, that's not

607
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:57.599
<v Speaker 1>a bad idea, you.

608
00:29:57.559 --> 00:29:59.240
<v Speaker 3>Know, stopping the bullets.

609
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.559
<v Speaker 1>It's good, you know. And I can remember in that period,

610
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>this this small team you know, walked into you know,

611
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 1>camp's d and they were in civilian clothes, you know,

612
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.599
<v Speaker 1>clearly packing pistols on their hips. And I and the

613
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 1>look about them was they just looked different and and

614
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.480
<v Speaker 1>and and those of us that have seen you know,

615
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.480
<v Speaker 1>really competent, intelligent, you know operators, which you know, when

616
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.079
<v Speaker 1>you start working inside of the special Operations community just

617
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:29.200
<v Speaker 1>become almost a character, just a dime a dozen everywhere

618
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Speaker 1>you look.

619
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:31.720
<v Speaker 3>But they they're different.

620
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.799
<v Speaker 1>And the confidence that they had when they walked in

621
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.079
<v Speaker 1>as a you know, a twenty three year old platoon

622
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 1>leader in one hundred and first Airborne Division, I immediately

623
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.119
<v Speaker 1>knew I wanted to be a leader like that, like

624
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.680
<v Speaker 1>whatever that was that they had, like I needed to

625
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.519
<v Speaker 1>earn that whatever that is. And so I was kind

626
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.599
<v Speaker 1>of fanboy in a little bit as these three you

627
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.359
<v Speaker 1>know guys walk in and you know, they weren't like

628
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Safari Land holsters, you know, and they got you know,

629
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Columbia shirts on, and one of them had a forty

630
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.559
<v Speaker 1>five cult cocked like.

631
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:02.839
<v Speaker 3>That was insane to me, like a cocked like a

632
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.799
<v Speaker 3>hot weapon homing around, you know.

633
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.759
<v Speaker 1>And we're standing around the kind of the terrain model

634
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 1>that we have of our battle space, which I don't

635
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:13.720
<v Speaker 1>even know if we called it battlespace in those days,

636
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, the area that we were responsible for, and

637
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:18.839
<v Speaker 1>they were just asking us questions about what we've been

638
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.319
<v Speaker 1>seeing with you know, trigger wires and you know, improvise

639
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>explosive devices. And we had started to have some of

640
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:27.519
<v Speaker 1>these initial kind of like pop blasts that would go

641
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:30.200
<v Speaker 1>off ticket tire, you know, maybe maybe give you some

642
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:34.759
<v Speaker 1>frag fragmentation injuries, but nothing really all that interesting. It

643
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:36.359
<v Speaker 1>was kind of like a claim war where you would

644
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.640
<v Speaker 1>hit us, which you know, just let's be careful. And

645
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>having this conversation with them and they were picking our

646
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>brains about how we were seeing the operational environment and

647
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 1>how we were seeing the threat. And I don't know

648
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:54.880
<v Speaker 1>if we gave them any valuable information at all, because

649
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:56.640
<v Speaker 1>we were we had no idea who they were, what

650
00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.759
<v Speaker 1>they were talking about. And I remember as they were

651
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.000
<v Speaker 1>talking and as I'm being tq'ed, which we learned to

652
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 1>think of it as TQ like fifteen years later by

653
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.400
<v Speaker 1>this incredibly impressive dude who I just wanted to be

654
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.440
<v Speaker 1>like when I grow up, and he said, well, what

655
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:15.720
<v Speaker 1>are you doing after this? And I was like, I'm

656
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:17.519
<v Speaker 1>going to the cabin's career course. He's like, well, if

657
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.400
<v Speaker 1>you're interested in, you know, kind of trying this out,

658
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.359
<v Speaker 1>you'll give us a call.

659
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 3>Right. I didn't think much about it. He gave out

660
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:25.039
<v Speaker 3>that card.

661
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.119
<v Speaker 1>I heard it, you know, about a dozen or so

662
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.680
<v Speaker 1>guys as he roamed around and saw people that just

663
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:32.279
<v Speaker 1>were interested in what he was thinking, you know, what

664
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.839
<v Speaker 1>he was working on. One of my buddies ended up

665
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.400
<v Speaker 1>calling that card and ended up inside the Asymmetric Warfare

666
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 1>Group back in the old Task Force ID at I

667
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:43.039
<v Speaker 1>d days And I don't know how true the story is,

668
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:44.640
<v Speaker 1>except when I've heard it from a couple of different

669
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>guys now, but I said, what was it like? And

670
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 1>he goes, well, the vast part of, you know, the

671
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 1>greater part of selection in those days, was trying to

672
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.519
<v Speaker 1>find the unit that you got to call. He said, Yeah,

673
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.799
<v Speaker 1>I show up at this you know, this payphone on

674
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:00.319
<v Speaker 1>this corner at this place, you know, and and then

675
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.279
<v Speaker 1>this guy I'll come and pick you up. And so

676
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:04.559
<v Speaker 1>the hardest part about finding the unit was finding the unit.

677
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And it was in the old prison on Fort Meade,

678
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 1>so it already looked like you were you could get there.

679
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 1>So it was just this really interesting first contact that

680
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.079
<v Speaker 1>I had. You know, I'd run into O das in

681
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.559
<v Speaker 1>my ground war experience with one hundred and first i'd

682
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 1>run into rangers. I got the opportunity to see our

683
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Special Operations community employed as they were intended to be employed.

684
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:33.319
<v Speaker 1>So I got to see what a Special Forces officer

685
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.759
<v Speaker 1>as an ODA team leader was doing on the ground.

686
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 1>I got to see what a Ranger platoon leader was

687
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.119
<v Speaker 1>doing on the ground. I got to see, you know,

688
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.599
<v Speaker 1>these select special mission units that are how they're operating.

689
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.920
<v Speaker 1>And what I noticed was there's just a different caliber

690
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.839
<v Speaker 1>of individual that ends up getting into those units. It's

691
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>a different mentality, and I don't know what it is particular,

692
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.160
<v Speaker 1>but I've been chasing it and fan boying it since

693
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.839
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and one. They just looked different.

694
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:08.559
<v Speaker 2>After the invasion, You've spent some time as an IOBC.

695
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.599
<v Speaker 3>Instructor and then it's off to the eighty second.

696
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in another deployment, tell us about getting to the

697
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.679
<v Speaker 2>eighty deuce and deployt in Afghanistan.

698
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that was it was a whirlwind. First of all,

699
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to blanch over the IOBC experience.

700
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:25.960
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to ask about that. You go back as

701
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:26.639
<v Speaker 3>an instructor.

702
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 4>Now you have combat experience, right, and you know after

703
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:32.199
<v Speaker 4>so Afghanistan has.

704
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.679
<v Speaker 3>Been going on for about a year and a half.

705
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 4>When you and when you go into Iraq or about

706
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 4>a year or two years two one March two thousand

707
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:41.960
<v Speaker 4>and three, you go into a rock. How long was

708
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.800
<v Speaker 4>your tour in I Rock thirteen months? Thirteen months, which

709
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.960
<v Speaker 4>is an exceptionally long time to spend it.

710
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.559
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't those days. So now you go to IOBC.

711
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.079
<v Speaker 4>Is IOBC changing because of people like you coming back

712
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:54.760
<v Speaker 4>with experience?

713
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes? The short answers yes, And so we we had

714
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.639
<v Speaker 1>to redesign how we were training our lieutenants, you know, and

715
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 1>so you got to pick and choose.

716
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:04.079
<v Speaker 3>It's always trade offs.

717
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:06.599
<v Speaker 1>So do you want to have a you know, a

718
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:10.960
<v Speaker 1>two week large dug in defensive operation like we used

719
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.760
<v Speaker 1>to do in large ground combat, or do you want

720
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 1>to spend two weeks in an urban center teaching them

721
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.920
<v Speaker 1>how to survive in the fight they're in right, right,

722
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:20.599
<v Speaker 1>And so we started to transition the military from more

723
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:25.280
<v Speaker 1>of a large scale ground combat operational force to you know,

724
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.519
<v Speaker 1>much more that coin cet footing that we saw throughout

725
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.440
<v Speaker 1>the g WATT for the next twenty years or so.

726
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Some amazing experiences that I that I got there and

727
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:37.599
<v Speaker 1>as a leader, you know, some of the most humbling

728
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.000
<v Speaker 1>experiences for me to understand, you know, who was volunteering

729
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 1>at this time.

730
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.280
<v Speaker 3>You know, I kind of.

731
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Felt like I'm a bit of the pre g Watt generation,

732
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, I joined the military before all this happened,

733
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and just kind of thought, this is exciting. I like

734
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.760
<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing. Whereas these guys were a little bit different.

735
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:57.599
<v Speaker 1>You know, these are lieutenants, you know, a lot of

736
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 1>them were senior non commissioned officers that were going green

737
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.440
<v Speaker 1>to gold in my unit that I got to work with,

738
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.719
<v Speaker 1>and these were dedicated people like these were believers and

739
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 1>what we were doing and why we were there and

740
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:12.199
<v Speaker 1>the importance of it, and that was a formative experience

741
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>for me. But what I really wanted to comment there

742
00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:18.800
<v Speaker 1>was I wanted that assignment because in those days, you

743
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 1>came out of your platoon leader job, which most of

744
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:23.800
<v Speaker 1>us did thirteen months of combat and it was about

745
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:25.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, the eighteenth Airborne Corp At least did that,

746
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:28.760
<v Speaker 1>and then you went to the captain's career course for

747
00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, six to nine months, and then you were

748
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.079
<v Speaker 1>immediately getting turned to another brigade and going right back

749
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.480
<v Speaker 1>for another year. And so we wanted to have a

750
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:41.239
<v Speaker 1>child at that point, and so we took that assignment.

751
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, we actually fought for it, tried out for

752
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:45.519
<v Speaker 1>it so that I could be home when she was born,

753
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.039
<v Speaker 1>because many people were able to do that in those days.

754
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:51.719
<v Speaker 1>You were gone, that was it. And so I got

755
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 1>to be there for the birth of my child, and

756
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 1>then showed up at the eighty second Airborne you know,

757
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 1>she's fifteen months old at this point. Another showed up

758
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.960
<v Speaker 1>on a Friday, took command on a Monday, you know,

759
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 1>did inventories over the weekend. Didn't really do good inventories

760
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.920
<v Speaker 1>on my dad. It was all going to combat and

761
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:10.719
<v Speaker 1>it was all going to be a combat loss, you know,

762
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>at some point, and so it was the good accountability

763
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:14.159
<v Speaker 1>of end items.

764
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:14.400
<v Speaker 3>You know.

765
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:18.199
<v Speaker 1>The last company commander had been fired. Unfortunately, there was

766
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.599
<v Speaker 1>thirty two UCM. J. Packett sitting on my desk, and

767
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.440
<v Speaker 1>I took the job. And we're going to j RTC

768
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.679
<v Speaker 1>the next week, you know, to train up for this

769
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 1>fifteen month deployment. Amazing experience because we had amazing leadership.

770
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:33.440
<v Speaker 1>And so that Martin Schweitzer, Colonel Martin Schweitzer was the

771
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:36.159
<v Speaker 1>brigade commander there ended up being one of the you know,

772
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:38.599
<v Speaker 1>senior officers in the eighty second Airborn Division, but kind

773
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:42.199
<v Speaker 1>of a legend in the infantry himself, and he took

774
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.360
<v Speaker 1>that brigade of newly formed leaders. I mean really just

775
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:49.039
<v Speaker 1>the fourth brigade eighty second Airborne Division was just getting formed,

776
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, being pulled off of different brigades inside the

777
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:55.400
<v Speaker 1>eighty second, and he did a train up with all

778
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:57.719
<v Speaker 1>these new leaders and all these new soldiers and he

779
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.159
<v Speaker 1>walked us through that pipeline, and then we went and

780
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.519
<v Speaker 1>did a fifteen month rotation in Afghanistan.

781
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:08.079
<v Speaker 3>Can you can you say why the former captain was relieved?

782
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:13.880
<v Speaker 1>If I remember correctly, there was a pornography ring in

783
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the eighty second Oh yes remember that? Yes I do.

784
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.239
<v Speaker 4>Did that happen when they were overseas or did it?

785
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.440
<v Speaker 4>Was that just that was a brag?

786
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? It was a gay porn ring. Yeah, there was,

787
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.000
<v Speaker 1>it was. There was a it was a pronogue. It

788
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:27.920
<v Speaker 1>was a I don't even know if it would be

789
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:30.320
<v Speaker 1>legal these days. I'd have to look at it.

790
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess it was like the notorious like man in

791
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.400
<v Speaker 2>the pink hat. Uh and he was like approaching soldiers

792
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.199
<v Speaker 2>just around the Fayetteville area and recruited a bunch of

793
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:40.599
<v Speaker 2>dudes to do gay porn.

794
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so I had I here, here's here's what

795
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I knew about it.

796
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 3>So I report I didn't and I didn't want to

797
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:47.000
<v Speaker 3>know anymore because.

798
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.559
<v Speaker 1>There could be more than one porn ring. Yeah, yeah,

799
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.000
<v Speaker 1>that's sure. I have to point that out.

800
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:52.760
<v Speaker 3>That's fair.

801
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Speaker 1>That's fair. So you know, Colonel Schweitzer, as I as

802
00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 1>I take over you know this company, he goes the

803
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.920
<v Speaker 1>organization has some troubles that is going to require some

804
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:05.920
<v Speaker 1>good leadership, and so you know, at once you get

805
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.840
<v Speaker 1>your hands around it, come back and talk to me,

806
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>and let's hear your plan. Right. I had no idea

807
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 1>what was happening. I had no idea what I was

808
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.119
<v Speaker 1>walking into. I didn't even really understand the full story

809
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.360
<v Speaker 1>until you know, a year or so later. But it

810
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 1>it to me the hallmark, and I think, you know,

811
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Colonel Schweitz or General Schweitzer retired as I think he

812
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:24.760
<v Speaker 1>nailed it.

813
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 3>They needed good leadership.

814
00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:29.599
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know if I was that good leadership,

815
00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:32.320
<v Speaker 1>but I know there were some amazing non commissioned officers

816
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:34.920
<v Speaker 1>that circled around me and really you know, grabbed those

817
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.119
<v Speaker 1>young platoon leaders and we formed a quick cadre, you know,

818
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:42.239
<v Speaker 1>just really tight. And it was interesting because you know,

819
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.920
<v Speaker 1>really that E six and above we'd all been the

820
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:46.920
<v Speaker 1>war at this point, you know, sometimes some of us

821
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.199
<v Speaker 1>a couple of times. I hadn't been. I don't even once,

822
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.360
<v Speaker 1>but we'd spent enough time at war that you know,

823
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:56.039
<v Speaker 1>squad live fires had a different feel to them, you know,

824
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:59.440
<v Speaker 1>doing your train up, going out, and I can remember

825
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.440
<v Speaker 1>at one point walking up on a squad leader and

826
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:06.400
<v Speaker 1>his team leader had just you know, thrown a temper

827
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.880
<v Speaker 1>tantrum and you know, chewing guys out, you know. And

828
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.800
<v Speaker 1>I watched this squad leader, just cool and calm, walk

829
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.519
<v Speaker 1>up to this squad and go, did you hear sergeant

830
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't even remember his name, now, did you hear

831
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Sergeant so and so? But he keeps telling you to

832
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 1>get cover and concealment, and they're like, you know, yes, sergeant,

833
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.400
<v Speaker 1>and he goes, We're never going to tell you that again.

834
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.199
<v Speaker 1>We're telling you to get cover and concealment so that

835
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 1>you come home. If you don't want to do that,

836
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.119
<v Speaker 1>we'll have to write a letter. But we're not going

837
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:35.119
<v Speaker 1>to yell about it anymore. We don't have any more time.

838
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:40.199
<v Speaker 1>And the boys took that to heart, and so that

839
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.199
<v Speaker 1>that non commissioned Officer Corps in those days was unreal.

840
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:46.400
<v Speaker 2>That's one of the differences I think that you were

841
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:50.239
<v Speaker 2>alluding to between special operations and conventional I'm not saying

842
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 2>these are like bad soldiers per se, but you're going

843
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.079
<v Speaker 2>overseas with them regardless, you know, And so you have

844
00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.239
<v Speaker 2>to figure out how to use your leadership and make

845
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:00.880
<v Speaker 2>do with what you have.

846
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Because you're not getting new guys.

847
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:05.199
<v Speaker 3>Right, and you can't rfs some you can't, you know.

848
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well to your point, you know, I had thirty

849
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 1>two U sum jpack. It's sitting on my desk and

850
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it was the right approach, but

851
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, me and my first sergeant, Derek Gondik, who

852
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 1>ended up being my command sergeant major in the twenty

853
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.280
<v Speaker 1>fifth Infantry Division, which you know you pour him, but

854
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:26.000
<v Speaker 1>we decided that we'd rather only have who we wanted

855
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:29.119
<v Speaker 1>in the line then have to be forced to deal

856
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:31.360
<v Speaker 1>with people who didn't want to be there, right, And

857
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:36.480
<v Speaker 1>so you could join my headquarters platoon any time you wanted.

858
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.480
<v Speaker 4>So, okay, So you were giving guys an out if

859
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:40.519
<v Speaker 4>they didn't want to be on the line.

860
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I would tell them. I would tell platoon sergeants that

861
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.280
<v Speaker 1>if you'd rather go without him, you're not going to

862
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.519
<v Speaker 1>get a replacement. But if it's a disruption and it's

863
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.480
<v Speaker 1>disrupting you from preparing your team to go to war,

864
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 1>bring him to headquarters. Will have plenty of stuff to do,

865
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.039
<v Speaker 1>and they will earn their way into another squad or

866
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 1>another platoon. And it ended up up being I think

867
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:04.559
<v Speaker 1>a success story for us, because what we found was

868
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.280
<v Speaker 1>that when the guys started getting put on that headquarters

869
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:13.719
<v Speaker 1>team and then being given the opportunity to earn their

870
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.280
<v Speaker 1>way back into the line, and we used to say,

871
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:18.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, living in a rifle platoon is a privilege.

872
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 1>It it's not it's not a right. And so you

873
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 1>got to earn your way back down there. And only

874
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.239
<v Speaker 1>a platoon sergeant can walk into the first sergeant and

875
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:28.760
<v Speaker 1>say I want to take that guy and put them

876
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Speaker 1>in my platoon. And so every one of their NCOs

877
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 1>would rotate through who had, you know, headquarters platoon that

878
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Speaker 1>day doing all the details.

879
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Speaker 3>So whatever the detail was that needed to be done.

880
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:41.239
<v Speaker 1>The rifle platoons are out training, and if you want

881
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:42.480
<v Speaker 1>to go out and train and you want to get

882
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.079
<v Speaker 1>ready to go to war with those guys, we want

883
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.000
<v Speaker 1>you to, but we can't force you to want that.

884
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.920
<v Speaker 1>And so as your NCOs were rotating through that headquarters platoon,

885
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.719
<v Speaker 1>they would find talent, and they would find people that

886
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.920
<v Speaker 1>they were connecting with and leadership that they were responding to,

887
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.519
<v Speaker 1>and they would say, you know, they would walk into

888
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Derek and hey, I want this guy down in my squad,

889
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:04.679
<v Speaker 1>and suddenly that guy would get removed and be an

890
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:06.480
<v Speaker 1>amazing soldier, amazing paratrooper.

891
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.119
<v Speaker 4>You said something that I think is kind of funny

892
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:13.440
<v Speaker 4>right now, where people like, there's a lot of mythology

893
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.079
<v Speaker 4>built around the number of times somebody's been to war

894
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:21.119
<v Speaker 4>or how many deployments they've been on, and the idea

895
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.960
<v Speaker 4>that you know, a lot of the conventional units were

896
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:29.119
<v Speaker 4>doing twelve plus sixteen, sometimes eighteen month deployments and it's like, well,

897
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.320
<v Speaker 4>I've been to war one time or two times, and

898
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:33.760
<v Speaker 4>then somebody from the soft community has been like, well

899
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.079
<v Speaker 4>I've been twelve times, and it's like, yeah, those were

900
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 4>three to six month trips compared to this eighteen month trip. So,

901
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.159
<v Speaker 4>you know, the whole idea of you know, talking about

902
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:45.519
<v Speaker 4>experience based on number.

903
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.280
<v Speaker 3>Of deployments, it's such a ballacy right now.

904
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, to your point, in my opinion, I never felt

905
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:58.360
<v Speaker 1>one was easier or harder than the other, although I

906
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.199
<v Speaker 1>struggled more in the special operations community than I did

907
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:04.159
<v Speaker 1>in the conventional community, just because of the talent that

908
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:07.639
<v Speaker 1>you're just surrounded with, right you know, I mean I'm

909
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.480
<v Speaker 1>average on my best day inside of the Special operations community.

910
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Just being able to keep my job and stay on

911
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:16.239
<v Speaker 1>the roster. That was a pretty successful week, right, But

912
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:22.159
<v Speaker 1>the operational tempo in those special operations units, it feels

913
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.639
<v Speaker 1>like a fifteen month tour went down four months.

914
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:28.800
<v Speaker 4>Sure, and the high intense jobs I mean again, not

915
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:32.639
<v Speaker 4>taking anything away from the special operations. It's a dangerous job,

916
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:36.840
<v Speaker 4>you know. It's just it's sometimes just like comparing apples

917
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:37.360
<v Speaker 4>and oranges.

918
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:41.880
<v Speaker 1>It is. It's but I would say the effect I

919
00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:45.880
<v Speaker 1>think is somewhat more akin than we give it credit,

920
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.199
<v Speaker 1>at least from my experiences doing fifteen months in a

921
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.119
<v Speaker 1>leadership position in the eighty second Airborne Division with dispersed

922
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.400
<v Speaker 1>cops on the Pakistani border, and you know, dealing with

923
00:44:56.440 --> 00:44:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a Polish counterpart who gets promoted three days before he

924
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.199
<v Speaker 1>shows up so he can outrank me on the fob. Right,

925
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:08.119
<v Speaker 1>like that kind of of of an operational tempo, it's

926
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:12.400
<v Speaker 1>a little bit slower, and yet the challenges were just

927
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:16.079
<v Speaker 1>as exhausting, right, you know. And then you transition to

928
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:19.360
<v Speaker 1>now you're a let's say a Ranger team commander and

929
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:23.800
<v Speaker 1>you're doing a four month DFC, a four month train up,

930
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.639
<v Speaker 1>a four month ready you know unit. You're you're constantly

931
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:29.320
<v Speaker 1>on an eighteen hour sequence.

932
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:32.239
<v Speaker 3>It feels like you're always deployed.

933
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.679
<v Speaker 1>And so even when you're home, I know, I'm rotating

934
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.280
<v Speaker 1>back into the generally that same battle space, and I'm

935
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 1>going to be ripping my you know, second or third

936
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:42.920
<v Speaker 1>range of battalion, you know, brother up there, and we

937
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.079
<v Speaker 1>all kind of get into a rotation with our classmates, right.

938
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And so you come back from that deployed for combat

939
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.360
<v Speaker 1>with task force, and it's not like, you know, you

940
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:55.280
<v Speaker 1>take two weeks to leave and then you go right

941
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.800
<v Speaker 1>back to your computer Monday morning, and you're tracking the

942
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.920
<v Speaker 1>same targets. You're tracking the same into eligence, you're going

943
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:03.800
<v Speaker 1>through the same ideas, except you're doing individual training and

944
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.679
<v Speaker 1>then you do ready training and then you're two weeks

945
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:08.880
<v Speaker 1>leave and then you're right back in gay And so

946
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 1>I think there the comparison is in the early days

947
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of g WATT conventional units, the leadership would deploy twelve, fifteen,

948
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:23.000
<v Speaker 1>eighteen months, who knows right, The officers and the senior

949
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 1>non commissioned officers would come back, get dispersed to the

950
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.880
<v Speaker 1>next unit, train them right up, and then go do

951
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:33.360
<v Speaker 1>another fifteen So it's basically y're on year off for

952
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:37.440
<v Speaker 1>those conventionals, but they don't have that year off, right,

953
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.920
<v Speaker 1>they're training the next unit that they're going to take

954
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:42.760
<v Speaker 1>to war, rit them through a JRTC and an NTC

955
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, going through an m LAT or

956
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:49.760
<v Speaker 1>going you know, going through a JORT cycle inside of

957
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:54.039
<v Speaker 1>the task force feels like a twelve month you know,

958
00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:57.679
<v Speaker 1>high intensity op run for the entire time you're inside

959
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the units, right, And it feels the same way to

960
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 1>me as a company commander in the eighties second Airbrine Division.

961
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.840
<v Speaker 1>It's just I've got a little bit of a different focus.

962
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Maybe more coin here, more CT right there.

963
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, So tell us a bit about that deployment to

964
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Afghanistan with eighty second.

965
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 3>Honestly one of my quieter deployments. So we were What

966
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.599
<v Speaker 3>sticks out is I had my first suicide on that deployment.

967
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.800
<v Speaker 1>In your unit. Yeah, employment, Yeah, that's terrible. Stick sticks

968
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.159
<v Speaker 1>out And I'll tell you what tears me apart to

969
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.960
<v Speaker 1>this day about that. We were in Goasmy at the time,

970
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.440
<v Speaker 1>so we really hadn't moved out to Wazi Quah yet,

971
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:42.880
<v Speaker 1>which is where our FOB would our our FROB would

972
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:46.199
<v Speaker 1>be located, you know, our company FOB, which can really

973
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:48.239
<v Speaker 1>circle at Hasco is in a.

974
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:49.320
<v Speaker 3>Burn pit in the middle of it.

975
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 1>He's on guard tower, seeming suicide, you know, rifle underneath

976
00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:01.360
<v Speaker 1>the rifle underneath the throat, right, and a guy comes

977
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.159
<v Speaker 1>into the tent that you know Derek and I, you know,

978
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.920
<v Speaker 1>first sergeant commander and you know, my my clerk, right,

979
00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:12.559
<v Speaker 1>and basically I hear him waking up, you know, Derek

980
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.840
<v Speaker 1>with you know, you know so and so shot himself

981
00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:16.239
<v Speaker 1>and I'm just I'm gonna leave names out of this,

982
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.920
<v Speaker 1>but you know, so and so shot himself and I

983
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:21.639
<v Speaker 1>hear it, and we all kind of like what like,

984
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:24.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, an ind like you know, what happened here?

985
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:27.599
<v Speaker 1>Now he committed suicide on the you know, in a

986
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:31.199
<v Speaker 1>guard tower, on guard watch. And you know, to this day,

987
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, it strikes me that, you know, I was

988
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:36.639
<v Speaker 1>in contact with his mother for a number of years

989
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:42.920
<v Speaker 1>and she doesn't really understand what happened. And it was

990
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>I felt so empty and I felt so helpless because

991
00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what he didn't have answers. And I

992
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:53.519
<v Speaker 1>look back on you know, you think about those crazy stories,

993
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.360
<v Speaker 1>those crazy Vietnam stories, right that we hear growing up

994
00:48:56.440 --> 00:48:59.480
<v Speaker 1>in this community of of you know the stuff that happened,

995
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:01.679
<v Speaker 1>and you know, really what happened there is you know,

996
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and so I feel like or I'm afraid that she

997
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.039
<v Speaker 1>thinks we were trying to cover something up, right, that

998
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:13.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, something terrible happened and we tried to cover

999
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:16.320
<v Speaker 1>that up and and the reality couldn't be any farther

1000
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:20.159
<v Speaker 1>from the truth. But I couldn't convince that I don't

1001
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:22.360
<v Speaker 1>know what happened. I don't think that's all that uncommon.

1002
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the survivors are always left with these unsettling questions,

1003
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.360
<v Speaker 2>right that just can't be answered. You know, that's like God,

1004
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.440
<v Speaker 2>literally God knows and that's probably the only person.

1005
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:33.679
<v Speaker 1>That can answer some of those things.

1006
00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:34.039
<v Speaker 3>Well.

1007
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.079
<v Speaker 1>And then you go through as the command team, you know,

1008
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.719
<v Speaker 1>so taking this back to a leadership perspective, you go

1009
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:43.960
<v Speaker 1>to the Okay, do you do you give full honors? Right?

1010
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>No?

1011
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 3>Like, how does that work?

1012
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Right? You know? Do you do you have a eulogy?

1013
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you give a twenty one gun salute? Do you

1014
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:55.039
<v Speaker 1>get do you get buried at Arlington?

1015
00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:55.920
<v Speaker 3>Like this?

1016
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, this paratrooper gave great service to his nation,

1017
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.679
<v Speaker 1>and we didn't understand in those days that maybe this

1018
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:04.679
<v Speaker 1>was beyond control. Right, Maybe this was beyond his control.

1019
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.519
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we had you know, we don't know what happened,

1020
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.280
<v Speaker 1>and that's going to haunt us for the rest of

1021
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.320
<v Speaker 1>our lives. But it was an eye opening and awaking.

1022
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:15.559
<v Speaker 2>So it really was like even like his close teammates

1023
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:17.199
<v Speaker 2>and his squad, this came as a shock.

1024
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Wow, that's rough. It's from my observation, yeah, and

1025
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 1>my conversation.

1026
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1027
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:26.159
<v Speaker 4>And you can't blame the family either, because there are

1028
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:31.639
<v Speaker 4>enough military cover ups that get exposed, right then everything

1029
00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:32.679
<v Speaker 4>starts to look.

1030
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Like a cover up. It's it's it's hard not to

1031
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:40.320
<v Speaker 1>seek meaning when it seems meaningless, right, And you know,

1032
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.360
<v Speaker 1>as a as a parent now, of I mean, you

1033
00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.119
<v Speaker 1>know that that that young paratrooper wasn't much younger than

1034
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 1>my daughter who sits here with me right now, And

1035
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.119
<v Speaker 1>as a parent, I can only I can't honestly imagine

1036
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:54.400
<v Speaker 1>what that was like. And it was the first time

1037
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:56.639
<v Speaker 1>in my life as a as a leader that I

1038
00:50:56.639 --> 00:51:00.519
<v Speaker 1>felt empty and helpless, and I didn't really know how

1039
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.559
<v Speaker 1>to deal with that now, because how do you lead

1040
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:04.280
<v Speaker 1>your organization through that.

1041
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:06.719
<v Speaker 3>Which we've been on. We've been in theater like three weeks.

1042
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, like we haven't even really moved into our

1043
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:12.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, to our FOB yet, and we know that

1044
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:14.719
<v Speaker 1>this is probably this is at least a twelve month

1045
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.199
<v Speaker 1>or probably going to fifteen. Like we were getting word

1046
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of that almost immediately, and so this is how we

1047
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.960
<v Speaker 1>start that rotation right so that that that puts an

1048
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:26.079
<v Speaker 1>immediate on it. But what it did for me is

1049
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:29.480
<v Speaker 1>it really perked my ears up to you know, how

1050
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:31.840
<v Speaker 1>how do you how do you keep your pulse right

1051
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Speaker 1>on your people right up? And this is what I think.

1052
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:38.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, conventional command teams in particular, you know, really

1053
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:41.039
<v Speaker 1>spend a lot of their, thank goodness, a lot of

1054
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:45.280
<v Speaker 1>their time on it. You've got a platoon in a

1055
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:48.960
<v Speaker 1>cop where they're just getting shot at or ordered or

1056
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:51.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're just sitting there. There's not much they

1057
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.559
<v Speaker 1>can do to protect themselves from that, right and they're

1058
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.199
<v Speaker 1>there for nine months twelve months. And what I started

1059
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:03.119
<v Speaker 1>to internalize is we now know this thing called post

1060
00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:07.320
<v Speaker 1>traumatic stress disorder PTSD. And I will constantly tell you

1061
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:10.239
<v Speaker 1>that just because we all have post traumatic stress, and

1062
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:12.960
<v Speaker 1>I do believe that every single service member who served

1063
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:18.199
<v Speaker 1>overseas or trained to go overseas probably has post traumatic stress.

1064
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:22.559
<v Speaker 1>Whether it's a disorder is a a question of degrees

1065
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:25.519
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of cases, but it's our post traumatic

1066
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:28.000
<v Speaker 1>stress is the reason why I think we're alive. You know,

1067
00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:31.880
<v Speaker 1>when I hear the car backfire, it's the immediate action

1068
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:34.719
<v Speaker 1>that I took that saved my life in the life

1069
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:38.000
<v Speaker 1>of my friends, right, And so there's goodness in that

1070
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:41.920
<v Speaker 1>post traumatic stress. But then you watch that play out

1071
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.400
<v Speaker 1>when you are helpless to do anything about it, right,

1072
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.280
<v Speaker 1>And I started to recognize that rotation that those who

1073
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:53.199
<v Speaker 1>were able to go out and be proactive and patrol

1074
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:56.400
<v Speaker 1>and hunt and you know, fight the enemy and do

1075
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the things they came there to do, their level of disorder,

1076
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:04.239
<v Speaker 1>and my observations is lessened. Right, those who are you know,

1077
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:07.159
<v Speaker 1>we used to jokingly call them the fobbits, right, you know,

1078
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.079
<v Speaker 1>the folks who never left Kandahar are never left Bogger. Well,

1079
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:13.559
<v Speaker 1>I spent a couple of weeks on those places, and

1080
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:17.639
<v Speaker 1>it was terrifying to me. You know that all of

1081
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:20.559
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, you know, the front gate gets detonated by

1082
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a v B I ed and you and you get

1083
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:25.199
<v Speaker 1>turned into pink mist like you know that that the

1084
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.880
<v Speaker 1>mortar comes down in the middle of your chew, right,

1085
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:28.960
<v Speaker 1>and there's nothing.

1086
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:31.719
<v Speaker 3>It's just all random, right right?

1087
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1088
00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Uh? And so that that post traumatic stress really started

1089
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.119
<v Speaker 1>to highlight itself for me on that rotation And how

1090
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:40.840
<v Speaker 1>do you confront that? Right? You know that as a

1091
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:43.320
<v Speaker 1>leadership team, what do do you rotate your people around?

1092
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you go see them? How does that work? I

1093
00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:47.119
<v Speaker 1>struggled with that a lot.

1094
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:48.079
<v Speaker 3>I think, you know.

1095
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:49.599
<v Speaker 4>One of the other things, like I have a theory

1096
00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:53.000
<v Speaker 4>that like suicide ideation is sort of the medic right,

1097
00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:57.119
<v Speaker 4>It's it's viral, It's mentally viral that once one, once

1098
00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:02.880
<v Speaker 4>one person in a in a group uses it, it.

1099
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.480
<v Speaker 1>It sort of gives it gives permission.

1100
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:08.480
<v Speaker 4>Puts the thought in people's head that maybe this is

1101
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:09.079
<v Speaker 4>a solution.

1102
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:11.840
<v Speaker 3>Were you guys concerned with that at all?

1103
00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:15.039
<v Speaker 4>Was there like are there means that the command can

1104
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:18.679
<v Speaker 4>use attempt to like inoculate their soldiers?

1105
00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like I said, catching, I can tell you the

1106
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.039
<v Speaker 1>non traditional things we did, and then I can I

1107
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:27.599
<v Speaker 1>can maybe speak a little bit about from the leadership perspective,

1108
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:31.760
<v Speaker 1>how I think we thought through that. So the USO, right,

1109
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:35.480
<v Speaker 1>things rotate around, And something that I always laugh about

1110
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:39.320
<v Speaker 1>is we lived in a place where only a ring

1111
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:41.320
<v Speaker 1>route could hit you once a week, and then of

1112
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.519
<v Speaker 1>course it's red air like ninety percent of the time,

1113
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:45.760
<v Speaker 1>and so when an aircraft comes through, it's kind of like,

1114
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:48.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, Christmas is coming and everyone's there, and one

1115
00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:51.800
<v Speaker 1>day I can remember it's Christmas and birds are landing,

1116
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:55.880
<v Speaker 1>mails coming off, you know, and outcomes you know, five

1117
00:54:55.960 --> 00:55:00.400
<v Speaker 1>or six. And they were ring card girls from the UFC, right,

1118
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:04.119
<v Speaker 1>and they were they were coming down to hang out

1119
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.159
<v Speaker 1>with you know, paratroopers on and we were definitely in

1120
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the hinterlands, yeah, you know, And and all of them

1121
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 1>were wearing white T shirts and body armor in one

1122
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:16.239
<v Speaker 1>hundred and ten degree you know, Afghan summer. And so

1123
00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 1>when they took off their body armor, they were very

1124
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.880
<v Speaker 1>popular and everybody wanted to get pictures and hang out.

1125
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:25.039
<v Speaker 1>So there's that kind of just touching home a little bit.

1126
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:27.119
<v Speaker 1>And I know that's a little off color, right, but

1127
00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:30.400
<v Speaker 1>that that's that's war. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1128
00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:31.119
<v Speaker 3>And those are the you know.

1129
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:33.400
<v Speaker 1>And and oh, by the way, all that's happening around

1130
00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:35.519
<v Speaker 1>one hundred by one hundred foot burn pit that's been

1131
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:38.599
<v Speaker 1>smoldering for the last you know chance, right, which will

1132
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:41.559
<v Speaker 1>hopefully get into that a little bit. So there's all

1133
00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:45.639
<v Speaker 1>those USO opportunities there. There was the psychologists that I

1134
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:49.079
<v Speaker 1>thought were very helpful. That and uh and and once again,

1135
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:55.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, very attractive psychologists showed up, and everybody wanted to.

1136
00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:56.280
<v Speaker 3>Go talk to the psychologists.

1137
00:55:56.320 --> 00:56:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, it's and and we're absolutely go talk to psychologists.

1138
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.880
<v Speaker 1>They just wanted to talk to an American woman at

1139
00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:08.280
<v Speaker 1>that point. I think, so those types of you know,

1140
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:13.559
<v Speaker 1>kind of morale boosting things occurred getting ice cream down

1141
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.199
<v Speaker 1>to the guys, right, But I think the most important

1142
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:19.400
<v Speaker 1>thing that we could do is leadership, which, by the way,

1143
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.559
<v Speaker 1>I had one way between starts use my call signed

1144
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:22.920
<v Speaker 1>to call in a bird to get ice cream, and

1145
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 1>I thought was amazing use of power. It was awesome,

1146
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:29.880
<v Speaker 1>good choice. And I thought the best thing leadership could do, though,

1147
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:34.199
<v Speaker 1>was keep the guys proactive. I never liked the term

1148
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:37.920
<v Speaker 1>presence patrol. I never liked the idea that you're just

1149
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:39.360
<v Speaker 1>going to go out and wait for someone to shoot

1150
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:41.280
<v Speaker 1>at you and react to it or blow you up,

1151
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:42.760
<v Speaker 1>and then we're going to deal with that. That made

1152
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:46.119
<v Speaker 1>no sense to me. Even if you're telling them go

1153
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.159
<v Speaker 1>get a six pack of coke at the local bazaar.

1154
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Like go find me something that you know, gives them

1155
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.519
<v Speaker 1>a mission and a purpose and a task that allows

1156
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:58.480
<v Speaker 1>them to go out and do the thing they volunteered

1157
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:02.000
<v Speaker 1>typically three or four times to do. If you let

1158
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:05.320
<v Speaker 1>that dog hunt what it's supposed to do, you will

1159
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:08.519
<v Speaker 1>be shocked with American ingenuity. And I found that those

1160
00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.480
<v Speaker 1>who were able to actively go out and perform the

1161
00:57:11.559 --> 00:57:14.159
<v Speaker 1>duties that they wanted to do that they volunteered do,

1162
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:16.920
<v Speaker 1>those were the guys that, or at least that's the

1163
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.519
<v Speaker 1>way I thought that leadership could do its best to

1164
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 1>increase morality or deal with post traumatic stress.

1165
00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:29.880
<v Speaker 2>So let's transition into going to rope, which I believe

1166
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:33.920
<v Speaker 2>what Ranger Orientation program today called RASP two.

1167
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.880
<v Speaker 1>RASP one, RASP one, No, no, you're right. RASP one

1168
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.280
<v Speaker 1>is the rip rip you're right, you're right, And now

1169
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:43.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a RASP biola. So enlisted go to RIP now,

1170
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:49.199
<v Speaker 1>RASP officers and NCOs go to ropes now, RASP two, sir, Yeah, yeah,

1171
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:49.559
<v Speaker 1>right on.

1172
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1173
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:56.519
<v Speaker 1>So when I was in Afghanistan for those fifteen months, uh,

1174
00:57:58.039 --> 00:57:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I had to make the decision of whether I wanted

1175
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:03.159
<v Speaker 1>to go to SFAs or whether I wanted to, you know,

1176
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 1>try the Ranger regiment or whether I wanted to stay

1177
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:07.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, where I was, which I was having an

1178
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:11.800
<v Speaker 1>absolute blast, and I decided that after having watched those

1179
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.039
<v Speaker 1>communities in action, what I felt I wanted to apply

1180
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 1>myself to the most was that Ranger experience. And so

1181
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:22.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, if it absolutely positively must be destroyed in

1182
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:23.960
<v Speaker 1>one period of darkness, you know, these are the guys

1183
00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:24.360
<v Speaker 1>to do it.

1184
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:27.639
<v Speaker 3>And so that that's what I wanted to get involved with.

1185
00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:30.559
<v Speaker 1>And so I was fortunate enough to earn a slot

1186
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in rope and I can remember it was the first

1187
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 1>time you realized you weren't that special, Like when you

1188
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:44.000
<v Speaker 1>go to a you know, to get selected for that

1189
00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:49.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of an orientation program. You're you're you're clearly in

1190
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:51.679
<v Speaker 1>the top, you know, ten percent of your of your

1191
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.079
<v Speaker 1>peer group. And so you've been running, you know, pretty

1192
00:58:55.119 --> 00:59:00.199
<v Speaker 1>comfortably in those organizations. You've been doing fairly well, you know,

1193
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:04.000
<v Speaker 1>playing eighteen ball, you know, every single day, and then

1194
00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:07.360
<v Speaker 1>you show up and you suddenly realize that just being

1195
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:11.639
<v Speaker 1>average here is a great day, right. And I'm not

1196
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:14.559
<v Speaker 1>the fastest runner, I'm not the best road marcher, I'm

1197
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:15.920
<v Speaker 1>not the best rope climber.

1198
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:17.960
<v Speaker 3>I can't shoot the best. I can't.

1199
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Whatever it is, there is somebody sit it, seated right

1200
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:24.159
<v Speaker 1>next to you that can do it ten times better

1201
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:29.719
<v Speaker 1>than you. And the professionalism of the ranger non commissioned.

1202
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:31.119
<v Speaker 3>Officer just struck me.

1203
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:36.079
<v Speaker 1>The professionalism, the competence, and the thing about the Ranger

1204
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:40.639
<v Speaker 1>regiment that I find most special is everybody's a ranger first.

1205
00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:45.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, your your cook is a five star Michelin trained,

1206
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:48.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, chef, and he jumps out of planes with

1207
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:52.360
<v Speaker 1>a gun and he seizes the objective first, and then

1208
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:55.079
<v Speaker 1>he starts cooking up dinner for everybody. Like the fact

1209
00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:58.519
<v Speaker 1>that you're a ranger first. There is no second class

1210
00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:01.679
<v Speaker 1>citizen inside of the regiment. Everybody has a tambaret. Everyone

1211
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:04.119
<v Speaker 1>goes through the same selection process, everyone goes through the

1212
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:09.599
<v Speaker 1>same training evolutions. And watching that cadre of I mean

1213
01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:11.960
<v Speaker 1>said Adam Nash was a was a Ribbons structor.

1214
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Adam Nash was, Oh he might. I'm a little afraid

1215
01:00:15.039 --> 01:00:16.960
<v Speaker 2>to say this out loud. He was a holacious Ribbon

1216
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:18.679
<v Speaker 2>and only he was.

1217
01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:20.719
<v Speaker 1>He was he was. He was a great first Sergey.

1218
01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:22.599
<v Speaker 1>He was good at his job. Don't get me wrong,

1219
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's their job. Is to put you through

1220
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:26.719
<v Speaker 1>your paces right well, and for those for those in

1221
01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:28.880
<v Speaker 1>the audience who don't know, Adam Nash's like eight feet

1222
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:32.239
<v Speaker 1>tall Best Ranger competition, you know, literally made it look

1223
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:35.239
<v Speaker 1>like you know, you know Mike and Ike. You know,

1224
01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:38.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm like this tall, you know, balde, I can't run

1225
01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:40.079
<v Speaker 1>for ship. You know, you got Adam Nash who's like,

1226
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:43.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm like a Clydesdale. But everything works. I had Alex Capratti,

1227
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:46.920
<v Speaker 1>So Alex Capratti was my was my rope, my rope

1228
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:52.000
<v Speaker 1>senior and CEO that that core of non commissioned officers

1229
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:56.440
<v Speaker 1>just set the tone of what this organization expects out

1230
01:00:56.440 --> 01:01:01.639
<v Speaker 1>of you. And the immediate emotion that gets, you know,

1231
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:04.400
<v Speaker 1>raised at least with me, is I'll sweep the floors

1232
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:08.159
<v Speaker 1>like whatever job you'll offer me, just to be around

1233
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:11.000
<v Speaker 1>these guys. I mean, these guys are literally my heroes,

1234
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:11.199
<v Speaker 1>you know.

1235
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:11.559
<v Speaker 3>There.

1236
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:14.239
<v Speaker 1>These are guys who you know Mogadishu, These are guys

1237
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:16.679
<v Speaker 1>who jumped into Rhino. These, I mean, these are guys

1238
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:21.840
<v Speaker 1>who went after what was her name, Jessica, Jessica Lynch,

1239
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:24.039
<v Speaker 1>thank you apologize for you know, Jessica Inch's faily, for

1240
01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:26.880
<v Speaker 1>forgetting that I have friends who are on that mission, right, like,

1241
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:29.280
<v Speaker 1>these are literally my heroes.

1242
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:30.639
<v Speaker 3>And I'm standing.

1243
01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:33.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm in the barracks, you know, RIP Barracks, which wrote

1244
01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:35.679
<v Speaker 1>barracks is just a room down the street from RIP Barracks, right,

1245
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.320
<v Speaker 1>And I'm in this room with three or four other

1246
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.000
<v Speaker 1>officers who are clearly better than me. They're clearly smarter,

1247
01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:44.920
<v Speaker 1>they're clearly better looking, they're clearly faster, I mean just

1248
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:48.159
<v Speaker 1>everything about them, you know. I know, I'm already on

1249
01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:51.079
<v Speaker 1>the B team just getting in the door. And to

1250
01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:56.360
<v Speaker 1>be around that caliber of person, it forces you to

1251
01:01:56.599 --> 01:01:59.400
<v Speaker 1>either give your best or get out of the way.

1252
01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:03.480
<v Speaker 1>You just can't even come into work that day without

1253
01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:06.559
<v Speaker 1>giving it your all. And so that rope experience I

1254
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:10.199
<v Speaker 1>thought was one of the best introductions to a special

1255
01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Operations organization. And I've seen a few different selections now

1256
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.760
<v Speaker 1>and I've helped, you know, build a couple of them

1257
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:22.320
<v Speaker 1>at this point, and I felt that the RASP, you know,

1258
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:24.800
<v Speaker 1>with the rope that then became RASP and RASP was

1259
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:31.440
<v Speaker 1>even better, was such a great culture inculcation for everybody

1260
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:33.679
<v Speaker 1>that you bring into the regiment and you are a

1261
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:37.000
<v Speaker 1>ranger first, That's why they called it indoctrination is right, Yeah,

1262
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:39.079
<v Speaker 1>that's right. And so at the end of that selection

1263
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.400
<v Speaker 1>when they're like, you know, well, hey, I know you

1264
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:43.760
<v Speaker 1>came here to be a Ranger company commander and to

1265
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.480
<v Speaker 1>go down to a ranger battalion, but we don't have

1266
01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:49.559
<v Speaker 1>room in one of those battalions for about nine or

1267
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.400
<v Speaker 1>twelve months, would you be willing to serve on regimental staff?

1268
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.960
<v Speaker 1>And the answer is just, of course, yeah, whatever you

1269
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:57.800
<v Speaker 1>want me to do to stand in this door.

1270
01:02:57.880 --> 01:02:59.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, in a sense, it's like good that you

1271
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:02.400
<v Speaker 2>get learn a lot about the organization from like a

1272
01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:05.320
<v Speaker 2>top down level, maybe before you take a position at

1273
01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the battalion.

1274
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I I that was probably the effect.

1275
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:12.320
<v Speaker 3>But you know, for me, what I remember of it was.

1276
01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Being around guys like you know, Rich Clark, Colin Tooley,

1277
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:20.039
<v Speaker 1>Marcus Evans.

1278
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:23.320
<v Speaker 3>I mean, just these these legends of the community when.

1279
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:26.280
<v Speaker 1>They're you know, Majors, you know, Ray Devins, and I

1280
01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:30.280
<v Speaker 1>mean just these guys that raised me as a young

1281
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.960
<v Speaker 1>officer inside the regiment to the best of their ability,

1282
01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:35.159
<v Speaker 1>no fault of their own that I'm all fucked up,

1283
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.719
<v Speaker 1>it's they did their best. But I also started to

1284
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:41.239
<v Speaker 1>learn that I had different interests in the regiment. So

1285
01:03:41.239 --> 01:03:43.039
<v Speaker 1>when you put you know, you put someone on RHQ

1286
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:45.440
<v Speaker 1>on Regimental headquarters staff, it's like a nightmare for an

1287
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:48.239
<v Speaker 1>infantry officer, Right, you want to be in the three shot.

1288
01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:52.679
<v Speaker 1>That's where everybody wants to yeah, do ops, everybody wants

1289
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:58.679
<v Speaker 1>to be there. I was the assistant S one. Nobody

1290
01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:02.199
<v Speaker 1>wants to be the assistant S one at Ranger Regiment.

1291
01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:06.400
<v Speaker 1>And I suddenly found I really liked it, Like I

1292
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:10.480
<v Speaker 1>really enjoyed the manning and the talent and understanding how

1293
01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:12.719
<v Speaker 1>to get that talent and how to align that talent

1294
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:14.320
<v Speaker 1>and then how to put that talent with the right

1295
01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:16.320
<v Speaker 1>teammates to get the most out of the team. And

1296
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:18.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, understanding how the senior officers and n c

1297
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:21.840
<v Speaker 1>o s and those types of organizations, that's what they

1298
01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:25.800
<v Speaker 1>consider to be one of their primary responsibilities is getting

1299
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:29.599
<v Speaker 1>the right leadership dynamic for that team. You know, when

1300
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:32.000
<v Speaker 1>a commander breaks his leg on a jump and you've

1301
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:33.599
<v Speaker 1>got to bring in a new you know, a new

1302
01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:37.400
<v Speaker 1>major to command that team for Afghanistan, for or Fallujah,

1303
01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:40.239
<v Speaker 1>and you know for four month rotation at high op tempo,

1304
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Like who's the right guy? And that's the answer that

1305
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:46.639
<v Speaker 1>they'll always give, well, who's the right guy. They don't

1306
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:48.880
<v Speaker 1>care who's supposed to do it, they don't care who's

1307
01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:52.079
<v Speaker 1>next in line. It's who's the right guy to lead

1308
01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:56.480
<v Speaker 1>these rangers in combat. And they build teams around that,

1309
01:04:56.559 --> 01:04:58.840
<v Speaker 1>and those teams get I mean we've we've heard about

1310
01:04:58.880 --> 01:04:59.719
<v Speaker 1>it from Standard Crystal.

1311
01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:01.679
<v Speaker 3>Now you know, teams of teams of teams, right.

1312
01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that style of focused leadership is what you know

1313
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.199
<v Speaker 1>from the Solutions twenty one perspective. Now, as a leadership consultant,

1314
01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:12.639
<v Speaker 1>I really harked on with you know, the CEOs and

1315
01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:16.320
<v Speaker 1>presidents that I work on all these private organizations. You

1316
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:19.320
<v Speaker 1>need to spend the most most of your time talking

1317
01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 1>to your people and understanding how to align teams and

1318
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:26.239
<v Speaker 1>how to get leaders bought into the vision right you've

1319
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:28.920
<v Speaker 1>got for where this needs to go. It's not in

1320
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.719
<v Speaker 1>front of your computer sending emails. It's not in the boardroom,

1321
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:34.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, making those decisions. If you've built your staff

1322
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:36.760
<v Speaker 1>the way you should, they will do those things for you.

1323
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:40.159
<v Speaker 1>I learned that from watching senior non commissioned officers and

1324
01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:43.199
<v Speaker 1>officers in the Ranger Regiment build task forces.

1325
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:49.199
<v Speaker 4>It's interesting because and speaking purely from a pregot ranger perspective.

1326
01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:54.440
<v Speaker 4>You know, you would see for the people don't know,

1327
01:05:54.519 --> 01:05:57.000
<v Speaker 4>like when you first become an officer, you cannot go

1328
01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:58.880
<v Speaker 4>to range of Attalian, right, you have to have a

1329
01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:01.519
<v Speaker 4>command someplace else and uh, you.

1330
01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:03.239
<v Speaker 3>Know, and then and then you come come in.

1331
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:04.920
<v Speaker 1>You've got to prove you can do it in the

1332
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:08.159
<v Speaker 1>conventional force before you get the opportunity to try out

1333
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:09.960
<v Speaker 1>for it in the special operations community.

1334
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:15.119
<v Speaker 4>And it's very interesting seeing different platoon leaders and and

1335
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:20.960
<v Speaker 4>how they either adapt or don't adapt once they get

1336
01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:23.760
<v Speaker 4>to Ranger battalion, you know, and they've got this platoon

1337
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:27.039
<v Speaker 4>of you know, highly motivated you know, a bunch of

1338
01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:29.880
<v Speaker 4>kind of knucklehead privates, but also you know your team

1339
01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:31.480
<v Speaker 4>leaders or squad leaders, you're a.

1340
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:33.079
<v Speaker 3>Platoon certain and.

1341
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:40.639
<v Speaker 4>Whether whether they could stand back because every because everybody

1342
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:42.760
<v Speaker 4>wants to look good, right, you want if that's your

1343
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:44.760
<v Speaker 4>time to shine when you go to Ranger battalion and

1344
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:47.480
<v Speaker 4>you want to look good. But it was the guys

1345
01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:51.400
<v Speaker 4>who learned that if they step back and facilitated, right,

1346
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:54.280
<v Speaker 4>they facilitated these rangers doing what they're doing, they were

1347
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.199
<v Speaker 4>going to look good. The rangers were going to make

1348
01:06:56.199 --> 01:06:59.519
<v Speaker 4>them look good, compared to the guys who felt that

1349
01:06:59.639 --> 01:07:05.599
<v Speaker 4>they need to needed to imprint their vision onto these

1350
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.519
<v Speaker 4>guys who had been who've been doing this job NonStop, yeah,

1351
01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:12.960
<v Speaker 4>since before they got there. Yeah, And how they adapted

1352
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.639
<v Speaker 4>and and if they could accept that they weren't they

1353
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:18.000
<v Speaker 4>weren't really the star of the show.

1354
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Right. Well, it's kind of I don't know if you

1355
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.719
<v Speaker 1>guys know this, but the Dodgers beat the Yankees a

1356
01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:26.639
<v Speaker 1>little bit ago in a World Series. I didn't know.

1357
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:27.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it kind of.

1358
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:29.159
<v Speaker 1>Pissed me off because I was a Yankees span for

1359
01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>a long time. I was telling Race to go to

1360
01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:33.199
<v Speaker 1>the old Bronx Stadium here a while back. I don't

1361
01:07:33.199 --> 01:07:35.199
<v Speaker 1>remember the dude's name, but he hit a Grand Slam

1362
01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:39.199
<v Speaker 1>home run in the first inning of what not first name,

1363
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:43.760
<v Speaker 1>but in Game one. And that's an A team player

1364
01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:47.519
<v Speaker 1>on the Dodgers, right. That means most of that roster

1365
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:50.440
<v Speaker 1>is B team players, right, and then you got four

1366
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:52.960
<v Speaker 1>or five A team players and the Yankees have the

1367
01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:57.599
<v Speaker 1>same thing, right, and officers in particular that go into

1368
01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:02.599
<v Speaker 1>a special operations organization, the REGI. In my experiences, the

1369
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:06.320
<v Speaker 1>first thing they're confronted with is they're accustomed to being

1370
01:08:06.920 --> 01:08:10.320
<v Speaker 1>the star quarterback. Wherever they were at, they run a

1371
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:13.559
<v Speaker 1>star quarterback. They were definitively top three in their division,

1372
01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:15.719
<v Speaker 1>you know. So for those who don't what a division is,

1373
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you know about twenty thousand personnel, which means that's a

1374
01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:21.000
<v Speaker 1>whole lot of platoon leaders and company commanders. They were

1375
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:24.560
<v Speaker 1>a top three of that division to get the tryout, right,

1376
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:28.760
<v Speaker 1>And so you get to that unit knowing that you're

1377
01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:33.199
<v Speaker 1>elite and you're select and suddenly you're on a team

1378
01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:36.760
<v Speaker 1>of all guys who hit Grand Slam home runs every

1379
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:39.600
<v Speaker 1>single day. And I'd love to even talk about, you know,

1380
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:43.680
<v Speaker 1>those crazy knucklehead privates, because there's no crazy knucklehead private

1381
01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:44.880
<v Speaker 1>in the Ranger regimen.

1382
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:47.520
<v Speaker 3>By the time you hit a team, you're a tab

1383
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:48.039
<v Speaker 3>spec for.

1384
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:52.079
<v Speaker 1>You're a tab specialist for generally by the time you're

1385
01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:54.119
<v Speaker 1>really rotating on the aircraft. I don't know if that

1386
01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:57.239
<v Speaker 1>was your experiences, but mine was. You show up as

1387
01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:02.159
<v Speaker 1>a PFC, you go immediately into Ranger school preparation. You

1388
01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:04.399
<v Speaker 1>then go to Ranger school preparation while going through all

1389
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:06.800
<v Speaker 1>your A T and finishing schools and holy schools and

1390
01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:09.239
<v Speaker 1>all that other good stuff. That's going on, and then

1391
01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:11.840
<v Speaker 1>by the time you come back and then go on

1392
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:16.640
<v Speaker 1>a rotation where you're probably working backside support inside the

1393
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:20.560
<v Speaker 1>targeting cell, you know, running errands until you get your

1394
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.880
<v Speaker 1>chance to go on a couple of missions that we

1395
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:24.760
<v Speaker 1>know are going to be good for you to.

1396
01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:25.359
<v Speaker 3>Break in on.

1397
01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Right by the time that guy is going out the

1398
01:09:28.399 --> 01:09:31.800
<v Speaker 1>back of an aircraft, he's probably a tabspec for It

1399
01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:33.359
<v Speaker 1>was that your experiences.

1400
01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:36.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean by the time guys are going out of

1401
01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:37.960
<v Speaker 2>the aircraft, I mean we had guys.

1402
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:39.479
<v Speaker 1>Graduate from RIP and go out of the back of

1403
01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:41.119
<v Speaker 1>the aircraft later.

1404
01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:43.199
<v Speaker 4>It used to it used to be that it was

1405
01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:45.279
<v Speaker 4>like you had to you had to spend your time.

1406
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:48.640
<v Speaker 3>You were probably going to be on the line.

1407
01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:51.680
<v Speaker 4>For eight months to a year before you before you

1408
01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:53.239
<v Speaker 4>were allowed to go to ranger school.

1409
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:56.119
<v Speaker 2>I went, and I mean, this isn't because that's closer

1410
01:09:56.119 --> 01:09:59.119
<v Speaker 2>to my experience, not because I was anything special, just

1411
01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.960
<v Speaker 2>because I passed a PT test they sent me to

1412
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:04.520
<v Speaker 2>ranger school like right away, which was good and bad.

1413
01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:07.720
<v Speaker 2>But prior to that, yeah, I think there was a

1414
01:10:07.760 --> 01:10:11.399
<v Speaker 2>thought that you'd, depending on the first sergeant's philosophy, that

1415
01:10:11.399 --> 01:10:13.239
<v Speaker 2>you're going to stay there, like a year to two

1416
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:16.439
<v Speaker 2>years before you go to ranger school, and that's why

1417
01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:19.680
<v Speaker 2>we had a deficiency of ranger tab guys in the

1418
01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:20.920
<v Speaker 2>company at that time.

1419
01:10:21.039 --> 01:10:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no tab, no slab. I don't know, I don't

1420
01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:24.560
<v Speaker 1>know if they still do that anymore, but as the

1421
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:27.319
<v Speaker 1>old days. But yeah, so that so the greatest thing

1422
01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:29.720
<v Speaker 1>that I really pulled from that experience is you have

1423
01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to eat a whole lot of humble pie immediately, and

1424
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:34.239
<v Speaker 1>you're coming in with an eighty second I walked in

1425
01:10:34.279 --> 01:10:36.239
<v Speaker 1>there with an eighty second combat patch, one hundred and

1426
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:39.359
<v Speaker 1>first combat patch, you know, twenty seven twenty eight months

1427
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:42.680
<v Speaker 1>of deployed combat time at that point, right, I'm feeling

1428
01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:48.039
<v Speaker 1>pretty confident in my abilities. Yeah, ce team player day one, Like,

1429
01:10:48.279 --> 01:10:49.680
<v Speaker 1>don't even know how to don't even know what the

1430
01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:51.800
<v Speaker 1>accuracy if you didn't wear an assault patch when you

1431
01:10:51.840 --> 01:10:58.439
<v Speaker 1>show that. My first introduction, right was it was a

1432
01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:00.880
<v Speaker 1>senior non commissioned officer? Can at me going? We got

1433
01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:04.119
<v Speaker 1>to get that in stereo before you talk to me.

1434
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:07.000
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, of course I had a result there, but

1435
01:11:07.039 --> 01:11:09.880
<v Speaker 1>not on top, on the bottom where it belonged in

1436
01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:10.399
<v Speaker 1>that unit.

1437
01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.840
<v Speaker 2>And then so you mentioned you really enjoyed S one

1438
01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:18.720
<v Speaker 2>you're learning about the regiment, but then you had this

1439
01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:21.720
<v Speaker 2>rear D job that you said was just horrific.

1440
01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was the worst job in my career. And

1441
01:11:25.279 --> 01:11:30.560
<v Speaker 1>so and I say worse because think about your My

1442
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:33.920
<v Speaker 1>job is to be the voice of the command, you know,

1443
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:38.319
<v Speaker 1>rear literally, and the times that they really need me

1444
01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:42.840
<v Speaker 1>are when we have killed and wounded rangers. And so

1445
01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:46.239
<v Speaker 1>it's caring for those families, it's connecting those families to

1446
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:50.039
<v Speaker 1>the resources, and the special operations community really lays it

1447
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:54.520
<v Speaker 1>out right. And some of the most you know, heartbreaking

1448
01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:57.319
<v Speaker 1>events are funerals.

1449
01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:00.359
<v Speaker 3>And you go to these funerals and you or.

1450
01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:03.359
<v Speaker 1>The escort for a general officer who's presenting the flag,

1451
01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:06.119
<v Speaker 1>which in those days General Votel did almost all of

1452
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:08.359
<v Speaker 1>the ones that I was on for whatever, I don't

1453
01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:09.880
<v Speaker 1>know if that was just the rotation or that was

1454
01:12:09.880 --> 01:12:16.439
<v Speaker 1>his decision. And you're dealing with these parents that are

1455
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:24.000
<v Speaker 1>in one step so proud of what their son has done,

1456
01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:27.800
<v Speaker 1>and on the other just we've just devastated a family, right,

1457
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:29.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're never going to recover a change from this.

1458
01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:34.199
<v Speaker 1>And the toll that just the emotional toll that that

1459
01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:39.359
<v Speaker 1>took on the rear detachment. I really got to understand it,

1460
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:42.479
<v Speaker 1>and I really got to see it, and it was compressed.

1461
01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:44.560
<v Speaker 1>And so in the eighty second or in one hundred

1462
01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:47.239
<v Speaker 1>and first, you know, a conventional unit, those you know,

1463
01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:52.159
<v Speaker 1>those five KIA those thirty I think it was thirty

1464
01:12:52.199 --> 01:12:52.800
<v Speaker 1>two vs.

1465
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:54.600
<v Speaker 3>I very serious, seriously wounded.

1466
01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:57.159
<v Speaker 1>So when Walter rued, we're in San Antonio, I'm flying

1467
01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:00.520
<v Speaker 1>to visit those rangers who have life altering in injuries

1468
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:04.840
<v Speaker 1>like will never you know, live without care kind of injuries. Uh,

1469
01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:07.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're you're working with the wife who has

1470
01:13:07.880 --> 01:13:11.600
<v Speaker 1>small children, who you know, with the parents and the

1471
01:13:11.920 --> 01:13:16.560
<v Speaker 1>emotional toll. I watched that take on our rangers going

1472
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:20.279
<v Speaker 1>through that, and I only started to understand the emotional

1473
01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:23.399
<v Speaker 1>toll that was taking on me years later, right and

1474
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and and that is, uh, you know, when when you

1475
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:28.399
<v Speaker 1>think back to the things that really trigger my you know,

1476
01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:32.359
<v Speaker 1>like my post traumatic stress disorder, the thing it's it's children, Yeah,

1477
01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:36.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, kids getting hurt and watching children, you know,

1478
01:13:36.279 --> 01:13:38.800
<v Speaker 1>at a coffin, and you know, and and it's probably

1479
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:41.439
<v Speaker 1>because of my own children, right, but it's a it's

1480
01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:44.640
<v Speaker 1>a very much my my nightmares are always about kids.

1481
01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:49.039
<v Speaker 1>Something happens to a kid, and and to be with

1482
01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:54.000
<v Speaker 1>someone's kid, you know, to escort that body home, which

1483
01:13:54.039 --> 01:13:56.159
<v Speaker 1>literally you're talking about your ranger buddy, and you know

1484
01:13:56.199 --> 01:13:58.319
<v Speaker 1>how it works. It's your ranger buddy that's going to

1485
01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>escort you home, going to make sure of that if

1486
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.520
<v Speaker 1>we can. And then to surround yourself with the family

1487
01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:09.159
<v Speaker 1>that is so proud like I literally, you know, Jason Dalky,

1488
01:14:09.199 --> 01:14:13.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll just give this one. Jason Dalkey were in Jacksonville

1489
01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:16.079
<v Speaker 1>for his funeral. I remember correctly, Jacksonville, that Naval Air

1490
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Station and beautiful chapel.

1491
01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:21.840
<v Speaker 3>Jason's remains come in.

1492
01:14:23.319 --> 01:14:29.279
<v Speaker 1>The naval commander had everyone in dress whites from disembarkment

1493
01:14:29.319 --> 01:14:32.439
<v Speaker 1>of the plane all the way to.

1494
01:14:32.439 --> 01:14:36.840
<v Speaker 3>The chapel and then all the way off of the installation.

1495
01:14:37.359 --> 01:14:39.760
<v Speaker 1>And then when you got off the installation, I'm in

1496
01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:42.039
<v Speaker 1>the lead vehicle with you know, the police and the

1497
01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:46.079
<v Speaker 1>fire department. They shut down the Interstate I seventy five

1498
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:51.199
<v Speaker 1>North was shut down and they were escorting us with

1499
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I was, and I'm in the lead vehicle, and I

1500
01:14:53.039 --> 01:14:56.439
<v Speaker 1>can remember coming up this little hill and looking in

1501
01:14:56.479 --> 01:14:59.159
<v Speaker 1>the rear view and General Votel is sitting behind me,

1502
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and all I see is Patriot Riders. So just hundreds

1503
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:09.319
<v Speaker 1>and hundreds of motorcycle riders and then behind them this

1504
01:15:09.560 --> 01:15:15.079
<v Speaker 1>endless convoy of Jackson Naval Air Station. These these are

1505
01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:19.159
<v Speaker 1>these are our Navy brothers and sisters, right and just

1506
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:21.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting a little emotional just think about it right now,

1507
01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:26.439
<v Speaker 1>Jason Dalky was this amazing? I mean I didn't know Jason.

1508
01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:30.479
<v Speaker 1>I know, I unfortunately only got the stories of Jason.

1509
01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>And when you listen to his wife, go, I mean,

1510
01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:37.359
<v Speaker 1>look at him. I remember this plain as day, his

1511
01:15:37.439 --> 01:15:39.319
<v Speaker 1>picture in full gear. You know, we all take the

1512
01:15:39.359 --> 01:15:41.239
<v Speaker 1>operator picture when you get into the theater, right, so

1513
01:15:41.239 --> 01:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>we're in our full kit, in the talk and in

1514
01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:45.680
<v Speaker 1>the jock and someone tick snaps that picture. Well, Jason

1515
01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:49.600
<v Speaker 1>literally looked like a poster child, like this is the

1516
01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:52.239
<v Speaker 1>ranger of you know, this is our modern day ranger

1517
01:15:52.319 --> 01:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>on the battlefield. He looks like he'll tear you apart

1518
01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:58.479
<v Speaker 1>from there. And he died doing what he loved doing.

1519
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:04.239
<v Speaker 1>And she knows that how heartbreaking for them and for

1520
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the family, and that that was the worst job ever.

1521
01:16:09.039 --> 01:16:12.680
<v Speaker 1>And yet it probably made me a better commander.

1522
01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you understand the gravity of all this, That's

1523
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:17.680
<v Speaker 2>what it sounds like you took away from.

1524
01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.680
<v Speaker 1>It when when we make mistakes in our business, it

1525
01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:26.560
<v Speaker 1>can result in life altering, right changes.

1526
01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, So after this, uh, this ordeal, you become a

1527
01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:35.159
<v Speaker 2>company commander at one seven five, HC went some fun.

1528
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:38.319
<v Speaker 2>We're happily representing all three battalions here on the show today.

1529
01:16:38.359 --> 01:16:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah we are. We're getting together for a second and

1530
01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>third we're getting we're Uh. I'll tell you, I always

1531
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:48.159
<v Speaker 1>feel as an impostor inside of the Ranger community. I

1532
01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>always feel like, you know, I never quite became one

1533
01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:54.319
<v Speaker 1>of you, Like you guys are just so my heroes,

1534
01:16:54.439 --> 01:16:57.119
<v Speaker 1>and so I look at you guys, and and you're

1535
01:16:57.159 --> 01:16:59.159
<v Speaker 1>what I wanted to be when I grow up. And

1536
01:16:59.199 --> 01:17:01.560
<v Speaker 1>so it's a it's been just a humbling miss. It's

1537
01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:03.600
<v Speaker 1>the I have very much the same sort.

1538
01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:05.439
<v Speaker 2>Of feeling that you do that I was just lucky

1539
01:17:05.479 --> 01:17:08.119
<v Speaker 2>to be a part of this like storied historical unit

1540
01:17:08.199 --> 01:17:10.239
<v Speaker 2>for a short period of time, you know.

1541
01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:12.720
<v Speaker 3>And well, I feel like the unit revolved around me.

1542
01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:14.880
<v Speaker 1>It probably did.

1543
01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:17.479
<v Speaker 3>No, No, I was I was average everywhere I went.

1544
01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1545
01:17:19.239 --> 01:17:23.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tell us about becoming HHC company committeder in one

1546
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:24.079
<v Speaker 2>seven five.

1547
01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I was the Candaharfusion Cell director. So we're

1548
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:31.880
<v Speaker 1>overseas and the Cannaharfusion Cell director. I remember, I worked

1549
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:33.680
<v Speaker 1>really hard for like three or four months to make

1550
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:35.279
<v Speaker 1>this a useful thing. And so for the you know,

1551
01:17:35.319 --> 01:17:36.760
<v Speaker 1>for the people who don't know what the canaharf Fusion

1552
01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Cell director, candrahearfusion cell was. It was where all the

1553
01:17:41.159 --> 01:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>NATO soft elements, you know, white and black were supposed

1554
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to be synchronizing their efforts inside of the Candahar you know,

1555
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:53.800
<v Speaker 1>battle space, the Candle Canahar aar and I was the

1556
01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Candorharfusion Cell director from you know, from Task Force, and

1557
01:17:57.039 --> 01:17:59.119
<v Speaker 1>so my job was to coordinate and synchronize all of

1558
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.319
<v Speaker 1>these with the with the battle space owner, which in

1559
01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:05.039
<v Speaker 1>those days was the tenth Mountain Division. I was really

1560
01:18:05.039 --> 01:18:08.239
<v Speaker 1>proud of myself because I was able to coordinate one

1561
01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:13.800
<v Speaker 1>or two somewhat synchronized operations of delivery of humanitarian systems.

1562
01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:17.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean just ridiculously you know, low output, right, And

1563
01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:19.600
<v Speaker 1>I was really proud of my ability just to put

1564
01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:21.840
<v Speaker 1>that together. And I can remember, you know, Mike Foster,

1565
01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:24.199
<v Speaker 1>the Battani commander, went seventy five. He's like, you've run

1566
01:18:24.199 --> 01:18:26.279
<v Speaker 1>how many missions? And I was like I've done two

1567
01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:29.640
<v Speaker 1>missions something like that, and he's like, sounds like we

1568
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:32.920
<v Speaker 1>need to find another job for you. He called me

1569
01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to congratulate me that he just selected me to be

1570
01:18:36.680 --> 01:18:39.359
<v Speaker 1>the HAC one seventy five commander. And I put a

1571
01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:42.319
<v Speaker 1>good face on it because I was disappointed that I

1572
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:44.399
<v Speaker 1>didn't get a rifle right, right. I wanted a rifle

1573
01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:47.079
<v Speaker 1>company right. And I put a good face on it.

1574
01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:48.720
<v Speaker 1>And I think, you know, I think to, you know,

1575
01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Mike Foster's credit, you know, he he he wasn't letting

1576
01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.039
<v Speaker 1>me get away with that. He continued to, you know,

1577
01:18:54.319 --> 01:18:56.520
<v Speaker 1>this is you know, rare opportunity, and blah blah blah.

1578
01:18:56.520 --> 01:18:58.760
<v Speaker 3>And I knew it was. I knew intellectually.

1579
01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:02.079
<v Speaker 1>I knew this was a lifetime opportunity, right, but I

1580
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:04.399
<v Speaker 1>was still a little disappointed. I wanted a writing.

1581
01:19:04.359 --> 01:19:06.920
<v Speaker 2>So for for viewers out there who are a little confused.

1582
01:19:07.039 --> 01:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Headquarters and headquarters company is where the mortars are located,

1583
01:19:11.439 --> 01:19:15.359
<v Speaker 2>and the snipers the RECKI guys. And then you had

1584
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:18.880
<v Speaker 2>all this like burgeoning intelligence capability, technical yeah, technical support

1585
01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:21.399
<v Speaker 2>element yeah, what I called it t S. And so

1586
01:19:22.159 --> 01:19:26.279
<v Speaker 2>it became I lovingly nicknamed it the Dark Arts. And

1587
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:27.880
<v Speaker 2>I remember Mike Foster, and I think you and I

1588
01:19:27.920 --> 01:19:30.520
<v Speaker 2>were chatting about this before the show. But Mike Foster,

1589
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:32.399
<v Speaker 2>he always had this uh, this kind of you know,

1590
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:34.560
<v Speaker 2>bloom wher you're planted, And I always hated him for

1591
01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:35.960
<v Speaker 2>it because he planted.

1592
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:36.560
<v Speaker 3>Me in a place.

1593
01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:41.399
<v Speaker 1>And and lo and behold, and I probably owe Mike

1594
01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:45.279
<v Speaker 1>a call at this point, you know, but he was right,

1595
01:19:46.079 --> 01:19:49.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think what he recognized is I wasn't

1596
01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:52.479
<v Speaker 1>quite you know, I was just as good. I could

1597
01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:55.680
<v Speaker 1>do it as good as them, but that wasn't where

1598
01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:59.600
<v Speaker 1>my talents lied. You know, there was lots of people

1599
01:19:59.680 --> 01:20:02.640
<v Speaker 1>who to do that just as well, if not better

1600
01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:04.279
<v Speaker 1>than me. In fact, I know at least you know,

1601
01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:06.399
<v Speaker 1>five guys who can do it better than me. And

1602
01:20:07.479 --> 01:20:11.279
<v Speaker 1>here was a place that needed something a little bit different.

1603
01:20:11.319 --> 01:20:14.079
<v Speaker 1>He wanted something a little bit different, and he saw,

1604
01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>I think something in me that he said you can

1605
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:21.520
<v Speaker 1>go and do this. And so it ended up being

1606
01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:26.199
<v Speaker 1>almost a life altering moment or experience for me where

1607
01:20:26.239 --> 01:20:30.039
<v Speaker 1>I suddenly realized you fast forward now, you know, almost

1608
01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:32.279
<v Speaker 1>ten years later and I'm on a range and with

1609
01:20:32.359 --> 01:20:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the Asymmetric Warfare Group doing nonstandard shooting through a rental

1610
01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>car which that's a whole fun story. And a guy

1611
01:20:39.199 --> 01:20:41.960
<v Speaker 1>asks me, are you you know your battalion command selections

1612
01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:43.399
<v Speaker 1>coming up? Or you go into the eighty second, one

1613
01:20:43.479 --> 01:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>hundred and first, one seventy third, the usual places that

1614
01:20:45.800 --> 01:20:48.279
<v Speaker 1>we go to before we try out for a ranger battalion, right,

1615
01:20:48.920 --> 01:20:53.439
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, no, there's about fifty other guys

1616
01:20:53.479 --> 01:20:56.439
<v Speaker 1>in the back of my head that can command a

1617
01:20:56.479 --> 01:21:01.239
<v Speaker 1>paratroop battalion better than I can. But I think this

1618
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:04.000
<v Speaker 1>is where my talent was is here, and I really

1619
01:21:04.119 --> 01:21:07.119
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed it, and I really loved it, and I fell

1620
01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:09.760
<v Speaker 1>in love with HHC. I mean to the point where

1621
01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:12.039
<v Speaker 1>I almost tried to rebrand it, right, whereas just I

1622
01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:16.640
<v Speaker 1>just had h instead of you know, HHC. Because Adam

1623
01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:19.279
<v Speaker 1>Nash was my see, my senior and listening advisor. And

1624
01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:21.520
<v Speaker 1>I was like, nobody listens to me in the headquarters.

1625
01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:25.159
<v Speaker 1>Nobody cares what Major Davis says in the headquarters. No

1626
01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:28.920
<v Speaker 1>NCR officers listening to me, but they will listen to

1627
01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:32.399
<v Speaker 1>Adam Nash. And so Adam, I need you to command

1628
01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:35.760
<v Speaker 1>headquarters because I can't walk into the battalion commander and go, hey, sir,

1629
01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>is what you're going to do today Adam nash Can

1630
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:42.880
<v Speaker 1>as a ranger, non commissioned officer and hotel company was

1631
01:21:42.920 --> 01:21:46.640
<v Speaker 1>where I put my emphasis, which was the dogs, the

1632
01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Rekie Platoon, TSC, and how do we start changing the

1633
01:21:51.640 --> 01:21:58.600
<v Speaker 1>way that our organization connects to other intelligence organizations out

1634
01:21:58.600 --> 01:22:02.880
<v Speaker 1>there in order to give a strategic through tactical uh

1635
01:22:03.279 --> 01:22:06.800
<v Speaker 1>picture that then we can put strike forces on target.

1636
01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:10.720
<v Speaker 4>Which is very important because one of the challenges I

1637
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:14.079
<v Speaker 4>think with whether it's work with other units or whether

1638
01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:17.560
<v Speaker 4>it's even working with the line is a lot of

1639
01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:22.760
<v Speaker 4>times people don't know how to employ their snipers, they

1640
01:22:22.760 --> 01:22:25.079
<v Speaker 4>don't know how to employ their records, they don't know

1641
01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:27.680
<v Speaker 4>what their capabilities are, you know, and so a lot

1642
01:22:27.720 --> 01:22:30.840
<v Speaker 4>of times those elements if they aren't there to like

1643
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:34.479
<v Speaker 4>sell themselves. If they aren't there, you know, they the

1644
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:36.680
<v Speaker 4>planning is just like a lot of times the most

1645
01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:42.520
<v Speaker 4>unimaginative right there after effect, right like this is the

1646
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:48.079
<v Speaker 4>big show. You're enabled either that or to imaginive like, Okay,

1647
01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:51.600
<v Speaker 4>the sniper is going to infill you know, three hours

1648
01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:53.920
<v Speaker 4>plus they're going to eliminate this guy and do this,

1649
01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:57.600
<v Speaker 4>and it's like that, I'm sorry, that's you know, you

1650
01:22:58.239 --> 01:23:01.760
<v Speaker 4>we appreciate that you think that we're all that, but

1651
01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:05.720
<v Speaker 4>that might not work, right, So we're of duty, right,

1652
01:23:05.880 --> 01:23:09.000
<v Speaker 4>So and you know, and even I think for a

1653
01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:12.359
<v Speaker 4>long time preach you at even the commander of h

1654
01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:17.520
<v Speaker 4>AC didn't really understand the capabilities of the people who

1655
01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:22.760
<v Speaker 4>worked for him because he was more focused on the

1656
01:23:22.760 --> 01:23:24.239
<v Speaker 4>headquarters aspect.

1657
01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:27.840
<v Speaker 3>Right, we just the the the people.

1658
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:29.920
<v Speaker 4>Who got put into h AC is like, well, we

1659
01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:31.560
<v Speaker 4>don't know where else, you know that we try them

1660
01:23:31.560 --> 01:23:32.119
<v Speaker 4>on the line.

1661
01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:36.039
<v Speaker 3>You're in the you know, in line companies will put

1662
01:23:36.079 --> 01:23:36.680
<v Speaker 3>them in AHAC.

1663
01:23:37.399 --> 01:23:41.319
<v Speaker 4>But for you to take such an interest in and

1664
01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:43.760
<v Speaker 4>and it grew right because you had the TSC and

1665
01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:49.279
<v Speaker 4>the dogs, and somebody has to understand what they were

1666
01:23:49.319 --> 01:23:53.199
<v Speaker 4>capable of sometimes what they're not capable of, and then

1667
01:23:53.319 --> 01:23:58.199
<v Speaker 4>proselytize right and and sell them and and teach.

1668
01:23:58.039 --> 01:24:00.399
<v Speaker 1>And fight for them and fight for them as for them,

1669
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:03.600
<v Speaker 1>because it's interesting to mention it that way, because you

1670
01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:07.239
<v Speaker 1>have to interface up and down the change in that regard, right, Yeah,

1671
01:24:07.279 --> 01:24:09.439
<v Speaker 1>and with my you know, with my fellow company commanders,

1672
01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>who are the priority, you know. And so when you've

1673
01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:15.239
<v Speaker 1>got a rifle company that's doing you know, a calfax

1674
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:17.880
<v Speaker 1>or you know, a large combined arms live fire exercise

1675
01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:20.159
<v Speaker 1>as a team. You know, well, they need their mortars,

1676
01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:23.239
<v Speaker 1>they need their snipers, they eat their dogs. And training

1677
01:24:23.479 --> 01:24:27.920
<v Speaker 1>those guys and getting those guys selected because their psychological

1678
01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:31.279
<v Speaker 1>profiles are a little bit different than other rangers, right right,

1679
01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:34.720
<v Speaker 1>And so just finding the guys that psychologically fit into

1680
01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:37.760
<v Speaker 1>those teams. I got to spend so much time with

1681
01:24:37.840 --> 01:24:41.119
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the task for psychologists and learning about

1682
01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:45.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, human uh, human needs and human interactions and

1683
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:48.680
<v Speaker 1>personality styles and understanding how and I which, by the way,

1684
01:24:48.680 --> 01:24:50.760
<v Speaker 1>if you guys don't use DISC at this point, you know,

1685
01:24:50.840 --> 01:24:53.520
<v Speaker 1>DISC personality styles like, I'll teach you to you because

1686
01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:55.520
<v Speaker 1>once once you do it, you can't unsee it.

1687
01:24:55.680 --> 01:24:56.000
<v Speaker 3>Really.

1688
01:24:56.039 --> 01:24:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it's just I can see the personality style,

1689
01:24:58.760 --> 01:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>which means I can understand and how you like to

1690
01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:02.840
<v Speaker 1>be engaged with, how you like to be talked to,

1691
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.800
<v Speaker 1>and learning all of that from the psychologists. And then,

1692
01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:09.159
<v Speaker 1>by the way, the reason why I joined this company,

1693
01:25:09.199 --> 01:25:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Solutions twenty one is they employ a lot of those

1694
01:25:11.720 --> 01:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>same understanding and ideas of how to build and align

1695
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>leaders as we learned inside the Special Operations community. And

1696
01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:24.479
<v Speaker 1>so seeing that and understanding what we could be doing

1697
01:25:24.680 --> 01:25:27.039
<v Speaker 1>with these teams and how we could be connecting to

1698
01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the ranger reconnaissance detachments, and how that could be connecting

1699
01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:34.399
<v Speaker 1>to TFO, and how that could be connecting to different

1700
01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:39.520
<v Speaker 1>intelligence organizations that are all trying to gain targetable fidelity

1701
01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:43.880
<v Speaker 1>on X whatever it is. And that, ultimately, I think

1702
01:25:43.960 --> 01:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>is what grows me into the AWG, where I get

1703
01:25:46.680 --> 01:25:50.359
<v Speaker 1>into strategic studies and strategic understandings.

1704
01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:54.279
<v Speaker 2>So as you finish off your time at HHC, you're

1705
01:25:54.319 --> 01:25:57.319
<v Speaker 2>going to staff College, and I think you were saying that,

1706
01:25:57.680 --> 01:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>like a waiver had to be signed because what was

1707
01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:02.199
<v Speaker 2>going on in the war at the time.

1708
01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So.

1709
01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:07.239
<v Speaker 1>It was it was it was timeline management of officers.

1710
01:26:07.239 --> 01:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>And I don't want to get too deep into it,

1711
01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:11.680
<v Speaker 1>but I was fortunate enough to get hired very young

1712
01:26:11.840 --> 01:26:14.479
<v Speaker 1>as an officer, So you know, I had like three

1713
01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:18.640
<v Speaker 1>years before my major selection and then was retained you

1714
01:26:18.640 --> 01:26:21.000
<v Speaker 1>know for two years after that, and so there was

1715
01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:23.720
<v Speaker 1>about three or four of us in my class years

1716
01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:25.119
<v Speaker 1>I did okay at the regiment.

1717
01:26:25.279 --> 01:26:28.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so one year run, it was, it's a long run.

1718
01:26:28.239 --> 01:26:30.239
<v Speaker 1>I was the longest standing officer at that point when

1719
01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:33.399
<v Speaker 1>I left. Yeah, Chris Vannick, who you know, long standing

1720
01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:37.159
<v Speaker 1>officer in the end of the five year run of Davis,

1721
01:26:37.159 --> 01:26:39.439
<v Speaker 1>which was probably a blessing for some and a curse

1722
01:26:39.479 --> 01:26:42.760
<v Speaker 1>for others, I hope. But yeah, that there was about

1723
01:26:42.800 --> 01:26:45.079
<v Speaker 1>five of us, or so for four or five of

1724
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:48.159
<v Speaker 1>us that came out of that same regiment class that

1725
01:26:49.600 --> 01:26:52.279
<v Speaker 1>we had to get waivers because we were too old

1726
01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:55.279
<v Speaker 1>to go to the Command in General Staff College, because

1727
01:26:55.279 --> 01:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>we were getting we were already majors, right, and and

1728
01:26:58.600 --> 01:27:01.600
<v Speaker 1>so General Botel reached in again to my life and

1729
01:27:02.039 --> 01:27:04.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, signed a letter to get us into the

1730
01:27:04.359 --> 01:27:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Command of General Staff College. And I was fortunate enough

1731
01:27:07.600 --> 01:27:11.760
<v Speaker 1>to also be offered the SOCOM Interagency Studies Program, where

1732
01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:14.199
<v Speaker 1>I got to spend you know, really a year in

1733
01:27:14.239 --> 01:27:18.279
<v Speaker 1>the basement with some truly impressive you know special operators,

1734
01:27:18.279 --> 01:27:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Green Berets, Seals, you know, rangers, you know, a couple

1735
01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:23.760
<v Speaker 1>of Special Mission Unit guys, only twenty of them in

1736
01:27:23.800 --> 01:27:28.960
<v Speaker 1>the cohort, and we lived together trying to understand how

1737
01:27:29.039 --> 01:27:31.079
<v Speaker 1>best to interface with all of these three and four

1738
01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:33.880
<v Speaker 1>letter agencies while conducting overseas operations.

1739
01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:36.279
<v Speaker 4>And that was you know, the g WAT was really

1740
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:40.640
<v Speaker 4>the first time that there was a lose relationships right times.

1741
01:27:40.680 --> 01:27:45.680
<v Speaker 4>But really the gyt put put jasock and so used

1742
01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:49.039
<v Speaker 4>to sock whatever in ned with the agent because they

1743
01:27:49.119 --> 01:27:51.159
<v Speaker 4>both realized how much they needed each other.

1744
01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Lots of lots of and I hate to use the

1745
01:27:52.960 --> 01:27:55.880
<v Speaker 1>word synergies, but but yeah, there was a lot of

1746
01:27:56.119 --> 01:27:58.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot of venn diagramming of what we were working

1747
01:27:58.840 --> 01:28:00.399
<v Speaker 1>on and how we could help each other there. And

1748
01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:03.960
<v Speaker 1>we were starting in those days to understand how technology

1749
01:28:04.039 --> 01:28:07.000
<v Speaker 1>can tear us apart and bring us together. And that's

1750
01:28:07.079 --> 01:28:08.760
<v Speaker 1>the days when we started building you know, so us

1751
01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:11.279
<v Speaker 1>NEETs and Socrates and you know, coming off the giants

1752
01:28:11.319 --> 01:28:14.199
<v Speaker 1>and you know, stuff like that, and so it was

1753
01:28:14.319 --> 01:28:17.720
<v Speaker 1>really interesting to watch those different organizations try to tear

1754
01:28:17.760 --> 01:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>down those barriers in order to integrate the intelligence picture,

1755
01:28:21.640 --> 01:28:24.359
<v Speaker 1>in order to optimize the effects on the ground.

1756
01:28:25.199 --> 01:28:28.760
<v Speaker 4>I know, we kind of skipped we're at the college

1757
01:28:28.760 --> 01:28:31.479
<v Speaker 4>now that I wanted those five years that you are

1758
01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:35.279
<v Speaker 4>and remen especially in headquarters as so a lot of

1759
01:28:35.359 --> 01:28:37.600
<v Speaker 4>things you're talking about did not exist when I was

1760
01:28:37.640 --> 01:28:42.399
<v Speaker 4>free done right, they they were We had mortars and snipers, right,

1761
01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:44.840
<v Speaker 4>and so.

1762
01:28:44.960 --> 01:28:46.600
<v Speaker 1>That's plenty to keep you busy, by the way, But

1763
01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:47.800
<v Speaker 1>what I mean.

1764
01:28:47.760 --> 01:28:54.079
<v Speaker 4>Is is that the regiment very much like professionalized very much,

1765
01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:58.239
<v Speaker 4>you realize the things that it needed and grew up

1766
01:28:58.279 --> 01:29:01.079
<v Speaker 4>to be more than just the light infantry. We lead

1767
01:29:01.079 --> 01:29:03.640
<v Speaker 4>into the best night entery in the world, the shock

1768
01:29:03.680 --> 01:29:08.239
<v Speaker 4>troops right for airfield seizures. What what were some of

1769
01:29:08.279 --> 01:29:11.880
<v Speaker 4>the things when you were there, What were some things.

1770
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:12.600
<v Speaker 1>That you were impressed by?

1771
01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:16.079
<v Speaker 4>What were some of the biggest growths you saw where

1772
01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:18.520
<v Speaker 4>regiment really came into it.

1773
01:29:18.520 --> 01:29:22.720
<v Speaker 1>Sound yeah, so I think you know, the eight hundred

1774
01:29:22.760 --> 01:29:25.399
<v Speaker 1>pound gorilla is what it's commonly referred to, right, so,

1775
01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Range a regiment, the eight hundred pound gorilla of the

1776
01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Special Operations community. Because the GAT and the op tempo

1777
01:29:33.119 --> 01:29:36.000
<v Speaker 1>and the area that we were at, we couldn't just

1778
01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:39.920
<v Speaker 1>have you know, unit platoons out there, you know, three

1779
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:43.279
<v Speaker 1>or four of them, you know, we needed thirty of them,

1780
01:29:43.319 --> 01:29:47.079
<v Speaker 1>and well you can't grow you know, a special operations

1781
01:29:47.159 --> 01:29:51.119
<v Speaker 1>team overnight. And we were even trying to grow the

1782
01:29:51.199 --> 01:29:54.640
<v Speaker 1>regiment in those days. Delta companies you know, started coming

1783
01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:58.079
<v Speaker 1>online in the days that I was there, and we

1784
01:29:58.079 --> 01:29:59.439
<v Speaker 1>were trying to grow Ranger.

1785
01:29:59.479 --> 01:30:00.319
<v Speaker 3>Well, what we were were.

1786
01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Doing was essentially taking a platoon from the three companies

1787
01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and you know taking you know, just baking, basically making

1788
01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:10.159
<v Speaker 1>two platoon companies to make a D squadron and then trying.

1789
01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:12.560
<v Speaker 3>To bring in more ranger and build them.

1790
01:30:13.039 --> 01:30:16.279
<v Speaker 1>And the soft truth is you just can't make them

1791
01:30:16.399 --> 01:30:19.439
<v Speaker 1>fast enough, right, which is why I'm really interested in

1792
01:30:19.479 --> 01:30:21.720
<v Speaker 1>the longevity of the operator, which is why I'm really

1793
01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:25.840
<v Speaker 1>interested in respiratory care. But that was I think that

1794
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:30.239
<v Speaker 1>the transition is wasn't a like Mission Creep. It wasn't

1795
01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:32.159
<v Speaker 1>the regiment trying to get a little bit more like

1796
01:30:32.199 --> 01:30:36.600
<v Speaker 1>an SMU. It was more the regiment was asked to

1797
01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:40.920
<v Speaker 1>perform more of those functions, and so the regiment did

1798
01:30:40.920 --> 01:30:43.720
<v Speaker 1>what the regiment does, It responds to its nation's call,

1799
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:48.680
<v Speaker 1>and it started to professionalize those teams to do those

1800
01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:53.119
<v Speaker 1>particular functions and thus multiplied the effect. I'm trying to

1801
01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:56.760
<v Speaker 1>not be too specific on there, and I think I know.

1802
01:30:56.720 --> 01:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>A little bit about like what you're the road you're

1803
01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:02.399
<v Speaker 2>going down, And I think something that's really impressive about

1804
01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:04.880
<v Speaker 2>the ranger regiment, you know, that you're alluding to, is

1805
01:31:05.239 --> 01:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>like when there's a problem, when there's a task, they

1806
01:31:07.960 --> 01:31:10.760
<v Speaker 2>really can and will throw a bunch of highly motivated

1807
01:31:10.880 --> 01:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>rangers onto a problem, and sure we can be knuckleheads

1808
01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:18.039
<v Speaker 2>at times, but eventually they get to the right answer.

1809
01:31:18.239 --> 01:31:20.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, they really do put themselves into it and

1810
01:31:20.680 --> 01:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>fix the glitch, whatever it may be.

1811
01:31:23.439 --> 01:31:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Whatever tribe you come out of, you know, before you

1812
01:31:26.439 --> 01:31:31.399
<v Speaker 1>go into an SMU, I find that the same caliber

1813
01:31:31.439 --> 01:31:34.399
<v Speaker 1>that's in the SMU is just the same caliber you've

1814
01:31:34.399 --> 01:31:36.840
<v Speaker 1>got in the tribe you came from. There's just more

1815
01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>concentration right at the SMU. And so to your point,

1816
01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:46.239
<v Speaker 1>that level of competency and that level of proficiency in

1817
01:31:46.279 --> 01:31:48.720
<v Speaker 1>those functions, that which you know is basically direct rate.

1818
01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:51.479
<v Speaker 1>I mean, these are direct raids in urban environments and

1819
01:31:51.520 --> 01:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>wherever it needs to be. So this is the world's

1820
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:56.800
<v Speaker 1>premiere rainforce, the seventy fifth Ranger Regiment. We come in

1821
01:31:56.840 --> 01:31:58.479
<v Speaker 1>and we come out yeah fast.

1822
01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:00.760
<v Speaker 2>But then as time goes on, I mean you have

1823
01:32:00.920 --> 01:32:06.359
<v Speaker 2>rangers with beards and you know, cruising around doing intel

1824
01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:10.520
<v Speaker 2>stuff that the public doesn't really associate the Ranger Regiment with.

1825
01:32:10.800 --> 01:32:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1826
01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:15.720
<v Speaker 1>So the the relaxed grooming standards, which in those days

1827
01:32:15.800 --> 01:32:18.560
<v Speaker 1>we would tell you it wasn't a relaxed grooming standard.

1828
01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:21.600
<v Speaker 1>We were just meeting the Army standard, right, we just

1829
01:32:21.680 --> 01:32:24.439
<v Speaker 1>weren't didn't have high yet, you didn't have to have

1830
01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:28.079
<v Speaker 1>the high entire four inch in landing strip on the top,

1831
01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:30.640
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of the you know what I thought

1832
01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:32.600
<v Speaker 1>of as rangers for you get four inches for those

1833
01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:34.159
<v Speaker 1>who don't know, you know, which is high and tight

1834
01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:38.479
<v Speaker 1>basically relaxed grooming standards. Well, they weren't relaxed grooming standards.

1835
01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:41.439
<v Speaker 1>We just met the army standard, right uh. And then

1836
01:32:41.720 --> 01:32:45.239
<v Speaker 1>the types of missions that the rangers needed to do

1837
01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:49.760
<v Speaker 1>in order to gain the fidelity on the target required

1838
01:32:49.840 --> 01:32:52.840
<v Speaker 1>that we grow some of those capabilities. Now like r

1839
01:32:52.960 --> 01:32:55.000
<v Speaker 1>r D has always been you know, the Range of

1840
01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Reconstance Detachment has always been a thing. It was r

1841
01:32:57.720 --> 01:32:59.600
<v Speaker 1>r C, you know, the Range of Reconstance Company for

1842
01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:02.359
<v Speaker 1>the years before I got there, but that has always

1843
01:33:02.359 --> 01:33:05.840
<v Speaker 1>been there for the regimental commander. And then we started

1844
01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:09.319
<v Speaker 1>to then professionalize those forces and make them even more

1845
01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:12.239
<v Speaker 1>competent at the battalion level to tie into those ideas.

1846
01:33:13.039 --> 01:33:17.199
<v Speaker 1>And then technology just forces us to you know, get

1847
01:33:17.239 --> 01:33:20.159
<v Speaker 1>away from green face reki for a while, you know,

1848
01:33:20.520 --> 01:33:23.439
<v Speaker 1>camouflage in the woods. And and what was interesting about

1849
01:33:23.439 --> 01:33:25.399
<v Speaker 1>that is by the time I now you know, take

1850
01:33:25.439 --> 01:33:28.279
<v Speaker 1>command with you know, Adam Nash and h AC one

1851
01:33:28.319 --> 01:33:30.880
<v Speaker 1>seventy five. When I come through there, you know, Adam

1852
01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:33.920
<v Speaker 1>and I have these hilarious conversations about we're having to

1853
01:33:33.960 --> 01:33:37.039
<v Speaker 1>teach rangers how to put on camouflage right and do

1854
01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>patrol based activities right, Like how do you put up

1855
01:33:39.920 --> 01:33:40.520
<v Speaker 1>a poncho hoo?

1856
01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:41.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, how do you stay?

1857
01:33:41.800 --> 01:33:44.119
<v Speaker 1>How do you sustain yourself in a hole in a

1858
01:33:44.199 --> 01:33:45.720
<v Speaker 1>hide sight for two or three days?

1859
01:33:45.720 --> 01:33:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Now?

1860
01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:49.079
<v Speaker 1>These were things we had been raised. His guys have

1861
01:33:49.079 --> 01:33:51.720
<v Speaker 1>been doing urban warfare for these guys have been doing CQB,

1862
01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, running and gun in and assaultman shirts and

1863
01:33:56.079 --> 01:33:59.960
<v Speaker 1>so more college and then you make your way to

1864
01:34:00.119 --> 01:34:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Commanded General Staff College. Ye, thank you, major school and

1865
01:34:03.880 --> 01:34:08.279
<v Speaker 1>then twenty fifth Infantry. Oh why yeah? How do how

1866
01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:09.439
<v Speaker 1>do you end up there?

1867
01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:11.800
<v Speaker 3>What's uh? What assignment do you land in there?

1868
01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:12.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1869
01:34:12.079 --> 01:34:13.399
<v Speaker 3>So I did not want to go back to the

1870
01:34:13.439 --> 01:34:14.199
<v Speaker 3>conventional army.

1871
01:34:14.359 --> 01:34:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I did not. I was. I was doing everything humanly

1872
01:34:16.640 --> 01:34:19.000
<v Speaker 1>possible to you know, keep touching the dragon and riding it.

1873
01:34:20.159 --> 01:34:23.439
<v Speaker 1>I went to rasp too, or rasp Il is what

1874
01:34:23.479 --> 01:34:26.199
<v Speaker 1>they call it now. So it's where majors go at

1875
01:34:26.239 --> 01:34:28.399
<v Speaker 1>Il to compete to go back as a field grade

1876
01:34:28.439 --> 01:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>inside of the regiment, made it to the final four

1877
01:34:32.720 --> 01:34:36.199
<v Speaker 1>and and and wasn't selected. Uh and and because I

1878
01:34:36.319 --> 01:34:39.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't selected, I walked out of that room. And you know,

1879
01:34:40.079 --> 01:34:42.239
<v Speaker 1>I was fortunate enough to get offered a job by

1880
01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Marcus Evans to go to second Brigade twenty fifth I

1881
01:34:45.600 --> 01:34:48.960
<v Speaker 1>d and and and being his team, which was truly

1882
01:34:49.000 --> 01:34:52.279
<v Speaker 1>humbling and and so I took that opportunity, as you know,

1883
01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:55.000
<v Speaker 1>if I, if I can't be in the Ranger regiment,

1884
01:34:55.600 --> 01:34:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Uh well, actually what I should say is my plan

1885
01:34:58.239 --> 01:34:59.680
<v Speaker 1>was to then go to the Long Walk in the

1886
01:34:59.680 --> 01:35:02.279
<v Speaker 1>Spring if I couldn't be in the Ranger regimen.

1887
01:35:03.039 --> 01:35:04.319
<v Speaker 3>And so I got my age waiver.

1888
01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:07.760
<v Speaker 1>And I remember coming home from not being selected and

1889
01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:09.560
<v Speaker 1>from you know, having a quick phone call with Colonel

1890
01:35:09.560 --> 01:35:12.439
<v Speaker 1>Marcus or Colonel Evans at two o'clock in the morning

1891
01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:15.079
<v Speaker 1>my time, right, you know, like noon his time, and

1892
01:35:16.680 --> 01:35:18.840
<v Speaker 1>sitting on the stairs in my in my you know,

1893
01:35:19.039 --> 01:35:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Fort Leavenworth, you know BOQ with my wife you know there, and.

1894
01:35:23.079 --> 01:35:25.760
<v Speaker 3>She goes, well, all right, what's next?

1895
01:35:25.880 --> 01:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>And I was like long Walk in the Spring, you know,

1896
01:35:28.319 --> 01:35:31.720
<v Speaker 1>and she goes, okay, now may not be the right

1897
01:35:31.760 --> 01:35:35.640
<v Speaker 1>time to have this conversation. But you're a little bit

1898
01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:39.039
<v Speaker 1>older than most majors here, you know, you've got eighteen

1899
01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:41.359
<v Speaker 1>years or not like sixteen years or something like that.

1900
01:35:41.399 --> 01:35:44.439
<v Speaker 3>Then, you know, just to clarify for people.

1901
01:35:44.199 --> 01:35:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Out there when we say like a little old.

1902
01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Not exactly an old man, what's considered a little bit older.

1903
01:35:50.920 --> 01:35:54.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a great point. So in twenty thirteen, I

1904
01:35:54.479 --> 01:36:00.239
<v Speaker 1>would have been thirty six, one foot in the grave, yeah, debt, yeah, yeah,

1905
01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:02.520
<v Speaker 1>dead and special operations down right?

1906
01:36:02.920 --> 01:36:04.439
<v Speaker 3>Two retirement right?

1907
01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, really, I mean really yeah, right for an eighteen

1908
01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:09.560
<v Speaker 1>year old. I had to get a waiver even to

1909
01:36:09.840 --> 01:36:13.079
<v Speaker 1>go to selection because I was older, and I don't know,

1910
01:36:13.159 --> 01:36:15.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe thirty eight is the breakoff point or something. Now,

1911
01:36:16.520 --> 01:36:18.720
<v Speaker 1>so we got the waiver and everyone, most guys coming

1912
01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>out of the regiment at the waiver and I remember her,

1913
01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:23.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, her saying, Okay, So you've got a lot

1914
01:36:23.960 --> 01:36:26.920
<v Speaker 1>of buddies who have now done this and you know,

1915
01:36:27.319 --> 01:36:30.079
<v Speaker 1>had the same experiences you have. You know, we're some

1916
01:36:30.199 --> 01:36:33.159
<v Speaker 1>of them a lot more successfully than you have. H

1917
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:37.239
<v Speaker 1>What happens if you go to selection, not that you fail,

1918
01:36:37.399 --> 01:36:40.960
<v Speaker 1>but you get selected and then you wash out of OTC,

1919
01:36:41.239 --> 01:36:44.159
<v Speaker 1>which is what was happening to most of my peers, right, Like,

1920
01:36:44.279 --> 01:36:47.079
<v Speaker 1>just because you get the opportunity to go and try

1921
01:36:47.119 --> 01:36:48.720
<v Speaker 1>out for the big leagues, it doesn't mean that you're

1922
01:36:48.720 --> 01:36:50.239
<v Speaker 1>going to make it. And I watched a lot of

1923
01:36:50.600 --> 01:36:53.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, of my peers who are way better than

1924
01:36:53.239 --> 01:36:57.319
<v Speaker 1>me get selected go to OTC, wash out and OTC. Well,

1925
01:36:57.359 --> 01:36:59.560
<v Speaker 1>when you've got a few years in your timeline to

1926
01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:02.960
<v Speaker 1>play with, that's okay. But I was at the point

1927
01:37:02.960 --> 01:37:05.279
<v Speaker 1>where if I didn't KD, if I didn't get a

1928
01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:09.079
<v Speaker 1>key development job as a major, meaning a battalion XO

1929
01:37:09.199 --> 01:37:11.960
<v Speaker 1>or S three job in some unit, I wasn't going

1930
01:37:12.039 --> 01:37:15.119
<v Speaker 1>to be eligible for promotion to lieutenant colonel, which means

1931
01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:17.039
<v Speaker 1>I was going to miss my window for colonel, which

1932
01:37:17.039 --> 01:37:19.279
<v Speaker 1>means I wasn't going to get a battalian command, which

1933
01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:21.600
<v Speaker 1>means and you just start seeing the downward trajectory of

1934
01:37:21.640 --> 01:37:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to be exiting this career very quickly.

1935
01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:25.439
<v Speaker 3>Right, I'm a stress being an officer.

1936
01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well it can be if you mismanage your career

1937
01:37:28.119 --> 01:37:30.279
<v Speaker 1>as badly as I.

1938
01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:32.039
<v Speaker 3>I always did what I want, and now what was

1939
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:32.720
<v Speaker 3>I supposed to do?

1940
01:37:33.840 --> 01:37:35.680
<v Speaker 1>And so she goes, Hey, how about she goes so

1941
01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:39.039
<v Speaker 1>if you go to selection and you get selected and

1942
01:37:39.119 --> 01:37:42.439
<v Speaker 1>you wash out of OTC, what happens? And I said,

1943
01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:45.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm probably being riffed. You know, Force retired as a

1944
01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:48.520
<v Speaker 1>major at eighteen years And she looked at me and

1945
01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:53.039
<v Speaker 1>she said, how about you take one for the family? Yeah?

1946
01:37:53.079 --> 01:37:55.600
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, that's that's a fair ask, right, right,

1947
01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:57.359
<v Speaker 1>It's a fair ask. And so I then looked at

1948
01:37:57.359 --> 01:37:59.800
<v Speaker 1>every you know, all kinds of other organizations to see

1949
01:37:59.840 --> 01:38:01.279
<v Speaker 1>if it was going to be a better idea. But

1950
01:38:01.359 --> 01:38:08.520
<v Speaker 1>in the end, I begrudgingly went back to the light infantry,

1951
01:38:08.600 --> 01:38:10.439
<v Speaker 1>not airborne, not aerosolt.

1952
01:38:10.640 --> 01:38:10.800
<v Speaker 4>Right.

1953
01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:14.359
<v Speaker 1>I'd never been in a straight leg infantry unit in

1954
01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:19.359
<v Speaker 1>my entire career, and it was the best experience of

1955
01:38:19.399 --> 01:38:23.520
<v Speaker 1>my career, of my entire career. Being a battalion XO

1956
01:38:24.119 --> 01:38:27.119
<v Speaker 1>in the twenty fifth Infantry Division was my favorite job.

1957
01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:30.000
<v Speaker 3>It was the first to AS's a great question.

1958
01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:34.359
<v Speaker 1>It was the first time, I think it was the

1959
01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:39.960
<v Speaker 1>first time that I knew what to do. I had

1960
01:38:39.960 --> 01:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>been trained in how to do it, and I was

1961
01:38:42.880 --> 01:38:45.960
<v Speaker 1>given the authority to make it happen. Right, you have

1962
01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:48.600
<v Speaker 1>some motorship over this, right, and so you know, for

1963
01:38:49.239 --> 01:38:50.920
<v Speaker 1>those who may not have served at a know, a

1964
01:38:50.960 --> 01:38:53.239
<v Speaker 1>senior league level in the battalion or brigade. You know,

1965
01:38:53.399 --> 01:38:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the battalion commander is the boss, right, but he doesn't

1966
01:38:56.800 --> 01:38:59.720
<v Speaker 1>want to do the job of the battalion XO or

1967
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:03.199
<v Speaker 1>the Italian operations officer to the battalion S three, And

1968
01:39:03.239 --> 01:39:06.840
<v Speaker 1>so those two are intended to be, you know, autonomous

1969
01:39:07.439 --> 01:39:11.399
<v Speaker 1>making decisions, you know, within the intent of their commander, right.

1970
01:39:11.760 --> 01:39:12.920
<v Speaker 3>And so it was the first time.

1971
01:39:12.960 --> 01:39:16.159
<v Speaker 1>So I'm a two IC second in command of a

1972
01:39:16.319 --> 01:39:19.039
<v Speaker 1>rifle battalion in the twenty fifth Infantry Division.

1973
01:39:19.560 --> 01:39:20.439
<v Speaker 3>I know how to be.

1974
01:39:20.439 --> 01:39:24.840
<v Speaker 1>A better S one than my S one because she's

1975
01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:28.920
<v Speaker 1>been in the army for twelve months, right, literally eighteen

1976
01:39:28.960 --> 01:39:30.279
<v Speaker 1>months by the time she gets here.

1977
01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:32.680
<v Speaker 3>You know, she's learning her role.

1978
01:39:33.079 --> 01:39:36.159
<v Speaker 1>I've done that for a long time. I know how

1979
01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:39.840
<v Speaker 1>to do target packages better than my S two, who's

1980
01:39:39.880 --> 01:39:44.319
<v Speaker 1>fresh out of his Military Intelligence captain's career course.

1981
01:39:44.359 --> 01:39:48.199
<v Speaker 3>And so as you walk through a battalion level staff.

1982
01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:52.399
<v Speaker 1>You're walking through the growth of leadership occurring at every door.

1983
01:39:53.039 --> 01:39:56.119
<v Speaker 1>And I really found that I loved it, that I

1984
01:39:56.239 --> 01:40:01.199
<v Speaker 1>truly loved, you know, mentoring and teaching these younger officers

1985
01:40:01.319 --> 01:40:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the things that I didn't need them to learn right,

1986
01:40:03.960 --> 01:40:07.399
<v Speaker 1>like I learned these lessons, Please don't relearn them. Let

1987
01:40:07.439 --> 01:40:10.039
<v Speaker 1>me help you get through this. And it was a

1988
01:40:10.079 --> 01:40:14.319
<v Speaker 1>pivotal moment in my leadership growth as an officer because

1989
01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:17.920
<v Speaker 1>I had kind of grown up in a pretty high pressure,

1990
01:40:18.079 --> 01:40:21.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, high intensity environment. You know, the term toxic

1991
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:25.800
<v Speaker 1>leadership probably comes from our community, right, and we know

1992
01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:28.439
<v Speaker 1>that it's effective, not necessarily the right way, but it

1993
01:40:28.479 --> 01:40:31.960
<v Speaker 1>can be effective right, and really high performing teams can

1994
01:40:31.960 --> 01:40:36.199
<v Speaker 1>also be terrible to be on right. But that experience,

1995
01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I decided, I don't think you have to do it

1996
01:40:38.560 --> 01:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>that way.

1997
01:40:39.119 --> 01:40:41.159
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it has to be that way.

1998
01:40:41.199 --> 01:40:45.039
<v Speaker 1>I think you can do it differently. And I got

1999
01:40:45.079 --> 01:40:48.600
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to really test that idea because I just

2000
01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:50.439
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to be that.

2001
01:40:50.399 --> 01:40:52.760
<v Speaker 3>Person to my people.

2002
01:40:53.279 --> 01:40:55.760
<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, when I was getting you know,

2003
01:40:56.399 --> 01:40:59.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, beat down by my majors rightfully, so by

2004
01:40:59.720 --> 01:41:01.880
<v Speaker 1>the way, I was a cluster fuck. And so when

2005
01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:04.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting beat down by my majors, I didn't want

2006
01:41:04.800 --> 01:41:08.520
<v Speaker 1>to beat down captain. I wanted to build my captain,

2007
01:41:08.600 --> 01:41:11.079
<v Speaker 1>and so I wanted to have a different approach to that.

2008
01:41:11.239 --> 01:41:15.520
<v Speaker 1>And it changed my leadership style forever. I wanted to

2009
01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:19.319
<v Speaker 1>teach you everything that I knew, not beat you over

2010
01:41:19.359 --> 01:41:21.560
<v Speaker 1>the things you were supposed to know. So did you

2011
01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:23.439
<v Speaker 1>have a good time out there in Hawaii?

2012
01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:25.720
<v Speaker 2>I had a blast, other than just the job, of

2013
01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:28.000
<v Speaker 2>which sounds like you had a good time, sort of rewarding.

2014
01:41:28.039 --> 01:41:31.279
<v Speaker 1>Most of what I did was the job. From there,

2015
01:41:31.279 --> 01:41:34.039
<v Speaker 1>I did go to the Brigade XO. We do Pacific pathways, right,

2016
01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:38.239
<v Speaker 1>did Australia, Malaysia, Indonesia. Yeah? Yeah, So I was fortunate enough,

2017
01:41:38.279 --> 01:41:42.279
<v Speaker 1>after being a Battalion XO to then get the opportunity

2018
01:41:42.279 --> 01:41:45.279
<v Speaker 1>to be a Brigade XO in that same brigade. Not

2019
01:41:45.399 --> 01:41:47.600
<v Speaker 1>as much fun because you don't spend as much time

2020
01:41:47.680 --> 01:41:50.319
<v Speaker 1>with the you know, the young officers and the NCOs

2021
01:41:50.359 --> 01:41:53.640
<v Speaker 1>down on the line doing the deed, but another really

2022
01:41:53.680 --> 01:41:58.119
<v Speaker 1>rewarding experience because now I'm leading a staff of my peers,

2023
01:41:58.960 --> 01:42:00.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, and so I've got you know, now, the

2024
01:42:00.560 --> 01:42:02.680
<v Speaker 1>S one is one of the best S ones in

2025
01:42:02.720 --> 01:42:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the army, you know. Now the S two is this

2026
01:42:05.119 --> 01:42:08.039
<v Speaker 1>is their k D job, their key development job is

2027
01:42:08.079 --> 01:42:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a major right, and so now I get to learn

2028
01:42:11.880 --> 01:42:16.079
<v Speaker 1>the lesson that leading down and mentoring down. It's actually

2029
01:42:16.159 --> 01:42:18.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of easy right, Like, people will do what you

2030
01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:20.760
<v Speaker 1>pay them to do in the end. And so leading

2031
01:42:20.840 --> 01:42:24.960
<v Speaker 1>down can be pretty simple, right. Leading up, you know,

2032
01:42:25.039 --> 01:42:27.479
<v Speaker 1>getting your boss to one hundred percent align with your

2033
01:42:27.560 --> 01:42:30.079
<v Speaker 1>vision and said like, that can be hard, right, But

2034
01:42:30.279 --> 01:42:34.479
<v Speaker 1>getting your peers to come online with you and to

2035
01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:37.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, drive together as a team like that, that

2036
01:42:37.399 --> 01:42:39.520
<v Speaker 1>is the hardest form of leadership. I think you can

2037
01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:43.279
<v Speaker 1>imagine and and and As a brigade, you know, field grade,

2038
01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:45.680
<v Speaker 1>you have to be able to lead your peers. And

2039
01:42:46.159 --> 01:42:49.479
<v Speaker 1>I filled so many times, and I had so many successes,

2040
01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:54.000
<v Speaker 1>but all of that really grew into us going to

2041
01:42:54.079 --> 01:42:59.039
<v Speaker 1>this Pacific Pathways experience where we deploy the brigade into

2042
01:42:59.119 --> 01:43:03.079
<v Speaker 1>the theater to conduct mutual training exercises with these other

2043
01:43:03.159 --> 01:43:05.920
<v Speaker 1>partner nations. How did you accomplish that?

2044
01:43:06.079 --> 01:43:08.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean as far as getting your peers, as we'd

2045
01:43:08.159 --> 01:43:10.039
<v Speaker 2>say in the military, on the same sheet of music.

2046
01:43:10.640 --> 01:43:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I think the way that it is I learned,

2047
01:43:16.279 --> 01:43:18.600
<v Speaker 1>I think because it definitely didn't happen the first couple

2048
01:43:18.880 --> 01:43:19.520
<v Speaker 1>couple of times.

2049
01:43:20.680 --> 01:43:22.079
<v Speaker 3>If you can get everyone.

2050
01:43:21.840 --> 01:43:26.239
<v Speaker 1>To envision what it looks like when you've successfully completed

2051
01:43:26.239 --> 01:43:30.600
<v Speaker 1>the task. So the effect I'm trying to achieve is X.

2052
01:43:31.239 --> 01:43:34.279
<v Speaker 1>And the more detailed you can be with what success

2053
01:43:34.359 --> 01:43:36.920
<v Speaker 1>looks like. And I would get as you know, my

2054
01:43:37.039 --> 01:43:40.520
<v Speaker 1>ADHD brain would get as focused as when you hit

2055
01:43:40.600 --> 01:43:43.359
<v Speaker 1>that corner, take a knee and pull security and then

2056
01:43:43.399 --> 01:43:48.119
<v Speaker 1>call set position one. You have personally achieved my decisive

2057
01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:51.479
<v Speaker 1>point like that kind of I need you to do it.

2058
01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:54.079
<v Speaker 1>I need you do in vision what this looks like,

2059
01:43:54.159 --> 01:43:57.359
<v Speaker 1>what success is and when you can paint that vision

2060
01:43:58.039 --> 01:44:02.159
<v Speaker 1>and then surround yourself with people that you trust, that

2061
01:44:02.239 --> 01:44:05.840
<v Speaker 1>you've you've built and empowered to make every decision within

2062
01:44:05.880 --> 01:44:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the limits of their comfort. Another Mike fosterism. I got

2063
01:44:08.479 --> 01:44:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to call him, you know, so you know, when you

2064
01:44:11.119 --> 01:44:14.439
<v Speaker 1>give them that trust and and they have the authority

2065
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:18.319
<v Speaker 1>to make those decisions and they agree to the vision

2066
01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:21.840
<v Speaker 1>and they've bought into that, they'll do it better than

2067
01:44:21.880 --> 01:44:22.520
<v Speaker 1>you ever could.

2068
01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:25.960
<v Speaker 4>Right, And so did the twenty fifth? Did they do

2069
01:44:26.039 --> 01:44:27.920
<v Speaker 4>a deployment during this time while you were there?

2070
01:44:28.520 --> 01:44:31.439
<v Speaker 1>So we did the Pacific Pathways was considered a deployment

2071
01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:36.199
<v Speaker 1>that this was almost getting a little post gyt now right. Yeah,

2072
01:44:36.239 --> 01:44:38.399
<v Speaker 1>we did a JR TC rotation which I did not

2073
01:44:38.399 --> 01:44:40.079
<v Speaker 1>get to do because I blew my knee out. Also,

2074
01:44:40.159 --> 01:44:43.680
<v Speaker 1>another leadership experience, first time Scott Kelly, the brigade commander.

2075
01:44:43.680 --> 01:44:46.479
<v Speaker 1>They're a former unit member. He walked up and he said,

2076
01:44:46.479 --> 01:44:48.560
<v Speaker 1>you're never going to be the same again. You're breakable now,

2077
01:44:49.319 --> 01:44:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and he was one hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, once one

2078
01:44:52.520 --> 01:44:54.159
<v Speaker 1>thing goes and it all starts going down.

2079
01:44:54.279 --> 01:44:57.159
<v Speaker 4>Do you do you think because you did have a

2080
01:44:57.239 --> 01:45:00.279
<v Speaker 4>combat scroll and you know, in addition to.

2081
01:45:02.399 --> 01:45:04.079
<v Speaker 3>One on one in the eight second, did you wear

2082
01:45:04.119 --> 01:45:04.920
<v Speaker 3>your combat scroll?

2083
01:45:05.640 --> 01:45:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Do you know? Do you remember? No?

2084
01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:09.479
<v Speaker 3>No, I did I wore combat scroll.

2085
01:45:09.479 --> 01:45:11.520
<v Speaker 1>I wore Well it's as well no.

2086
01:45:11.680 --> 01:45:13.920
<v Speaker 3>It depended on where I was at. But but the.

2087
01:45:13.880 --> 01:45:19.479
<v Speaker 4>Reason I'm asking is obviously there's whether it's real or not.

2088
01:45:19.800 --> 01:45:23.319
<v Speaker 4>There there is a presumed i think authority and expertise,

2089
01:45:23.399 --> 01:45:26.119
<v Speaker 4>right that goes along with having a combat scroll or

2090
01:45:26.119 --> 01:45:28.439
<v Speaker 4>a combat SF or you.

2091
01:45:28.439 --> 01:45:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Know what I mean.

2092
01:45:28.960 --> 01:45:31.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that that when you when you were in a

2093
01:45:31.600 --> 01:45:35.079
<v Speaker 4>conventional unit. Does that help you when you are talking

2094
01:45:35.119 --> 01:45:40.039
<v Speaker 4>to people, were they they're they're automatically giving you, uh

2095
01:45:40.600 --> 01:45:42.479
<v Speaker 4>like credibility?

2096
01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I think it's a double edged sword, but yes,

2097
01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:49.760
<v Speaker 1>so one I would say my my personal rule was

2098
01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:53.920
<v Speaker 1>I wore the last patch of the unit that I

2099
01:45:53.960 --> 01:45:56.920
<v Speaker 1>went that I deployed with, right, unless I was assigned

2100
01:45:57.000 --> 01:45:59.920
<v Speaker 1>to a unit that I had a combat patch from. Okay,

2101
01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:02.640
<v Speaker 1>So if I was to be reassigned to the eighty second,

2102
01:46:02.680 --> 01:46:05.279
<v Speaker 1>I would wear eighty second in stereo. Like I'm very

2103
01:46:05.319 --> 01:46:07.000
<v Speaker 1>proud of my eighty second combat patch.

2104
01:46:07.079 --> 01:46:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Right.

2105
01:46:07.279 --> 01:46:08.600
<v Speaker 1>If I was in the one hundred and first, I

2106
01:46:08.600 --> 01:46:11.279
<v Speaker 1>would wear one hundred first in stereo. I'm very proud

2107
01:46:11.359 --> 01:46:13.920
<v Speaker 1>of that combat patch. The last unit I deployed to

2108
01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:16.079
<v Speaker 1>combat with and that I saw combat with was the

2109
01:46:16.079 --> 01:46:18.279
<v Speaker 1>first Ranger between you didn't have a twenty fifth ID

2110
01:46:18.399 --> 01:46:21.720
<v Speaker 1>patch and the Yeah, and in the AWG. I never

2111
01:46:21.720 --> 01:46:24.119
<v Speaker 1>heard a shot fired in anger, thank god. So, yeah,

2112
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:25.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't get that opportunity.

2113
01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Tell us, tell us about that starting to you know you,

2114
01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:34.279
<v Speaker 2>I believe the trajectory here is that you had a

2115
01:46:34.399 --> 01:46:37.159
<v Speaker 2>job and then that got changed. Kind of there's a

2116
01:46:37.239 --> 01:46:40.000
<v Speaker 2>rug pull unfortunately. Yeah, you were trying to find a

2117
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:43.279
<v Speaker 2>way to stay in Hawaii. But tell us about how

2118
01:46:43.680 --> 01:46:46.520
<v Speaker 2>the Asymmetrical Warfare Group came about for you.

2119
01:46:46.800 --> 01:46:50.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so thank you for tying that back together for me.

2120
01:46:50.560 --> 01:46:53.359
<v Speaker 1>So I run into Task Force IED in two thousand

2121
01:46:53.439 --> 01:46:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and three in Iraq, Right, and then they grow throughout

2122
01:46:56.640 --> 01:46:59.039
<v Speaker 1>the years. I actually have them assigned to one of

2123
01:46:59.079 --> 01:47:02.640
<v Speaker 1>my patrols in Afghanistan as a company commander. You know,

2124
01:47:02.680 --> 01:47:06.239
<v Speaker 1>two guys come out of Iraq and so I get

2125
01:47:06.279 --> 01:47:08.079
<v Speaker 1>to kind of touch them again a little bit and

2126
01:47:08.159 --> 01:47:11.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of see what they're doing. And then I was

2127
01:47:11.800 --> 01:47:15.319
<v Speaker 1>leaving my brig I left my brigade XO time and

2128
01:47:15.520 --> 01:47:18.239
<v Speaker 1>I was fortunate enough to get a follow on assignment

2129
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:22.159
<v Speaker 1>as the Brigade Operations Officer for the one ninety six

2130
01:47:22.920 --> 01:47:26.920
<v Speaker 1>JP M r C SO Joint Pacific. I'm gonna screw

2131
01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:30.880
<v Speaker 1>this one up Readiness center, but it basically it's a

2132
01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:33.800
<v Speaker 1>deployable Sure, I'll take one.

2133
01:47:33.880 --> 01:47:36.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a Deployable.

2134
01:47:37.319 --> 01:47:41.479
<v Speaker 1>Training Center or NTC j RTC package that goes to

2135
01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:44.520
<v Speaker 1>the units that are signed to INDO PACON and so

2136
01:47:44.960 --> 01:47:48.560
<v Speaker 1>into Paycon literally a place of tyranny of distance, and

2137
01:47:48.600 --> 01:47:51.199
<v Speaker 1>so instead of moving those units to a national training.

2138
01:47:50.960 --> 01:47:53.520
<v Speaker 3>Center, we go to them. Thank you, sir, I appreciate you.

2139
01:47:56.760 --> 01:47:59.359
<v Speaker 1>And I was in that unit as the Brigade Operations Officer,

2140
01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:01.960
<v Speaker 1>which I was very thankful for the opportunity because I

2141
01:48:01.960 --> 01:48:05.119
<v Speaker 1>hadn't had any OPS experience as a field grade officer.

2142
01:48:05.159 --> 01:48:09.039
<v Speaker 1>I'd been alarm. I'd been an EXO in a battalion,

2143
01:48:09.119 --> 01:48:11.960
<v Speaker 1>and I'd actually wanted to be the EXO in the brigade.

2144
01:48:12.640 --> 01:48:14.880
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to be the three. And so I

2145
01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:18.039
<v Speaker 1>got the opportunity now to kind of round out my

2146
01:48:18.159 --> 01:48:23.079
<v Speaker 1>experiences and go be a brigade operations officer. And I

2147
01:48:23.119 --> 01:48:25.039
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be a two year assignment that would

2148
01:48:25.119 --> 01:48:27.960
<v Speaker 1>keep me on island on Hawaii, so my family would

2149
01:48:27.960 --> 01:48:30.159
<v Speaker 1>be stable. I didn't want to move my kids, you know,

2150
01:48:30.159 --> 01:48:32.720
<v Speaker 1>anymore than I had to, and we loved the islands

2151
01:48:32.720 --> 01:48:34.960
<v Speaker 1>that we didn't want to live. Yeah, I learned how

2152
01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:36.800
<v Speaker 1>to I learned. I really I really learned how to

2153
01:48:36.800 --> 01:48:41.359
<v Speaker 1>surf there, you know, like I really enjoyed it. And

2154
01:48:41.399 --> 01:48:45.479
<v Speaker 1>about I was in Indonesia at the time with the

2155
01:48:46.359 --> 01:48:49.079
<v Speaker 1>one ninety six. Then we were with the twenty fifth

2156
01:48:49.119 --> 01:48:52.600
<v Speaker 1>actually at that point, and my branch manager called me

2157
01:48:52.720 --> 01:48:56.640
<v Speaker 1>and said, hey, the code on your billet has been

2158
01:48:56.720 --> 01:48:59.760
<v Speaker 1>changed from an infantry officer to an armor officer and

2159
01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:02.239
<v Speaker 1>we're going to need you to find another job next year.

2160
01:49:02.800 --> 01:49:07.239
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, well, find another job means those

2161
01:49:07.319 --> 01:49:10.319
<v Speaker 1>jobs are closed right now because we've already filled them out.

2162
01:49:10.760 --> 01:49:12.840
<v Speaker 1>And so to find another job I'm gonna have to

2163
01:49:12.960 --> 01:49:16.800
<v Speaker 1>leave Hawaii, and he was like, more than likely bad news, right,

2164
01:49:17.319 --> 01:49:22.079
<v Speaker 1>and so so in essence, and I'll just truncate this so.

2165
01:49:22.239 --> 01:49:24.000
<v Speaker 3>We don't have to belabor officer timelines.

2166
01:49:24.039 --> 01:49:26.840
<v Speaker 1>But you know, in the end, you know, when when

2167
01:49:26.880 --> 01:49:32.680
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to get a battalion command, your window gets

2168
01:49:32.760 --> 01:49:36.359
<v Speaker 1>real short and people start driving you to positions. So

2169
01:49:36.399 --> 01:49:38.319
<v Speaker 1>you've got to go to pre command. Course, you've got

2170
01:49:38.359 --> 01:49:40.560
<v Speaker 1>to go to pre coote in the organization. You know,

2171
01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:43.800
<v Speaker 1>ideally you've been in that organization before. You know, Usually

2172
01:49:43.840 --> 01:49:46.520
<v Speaker 1>the chief of Staff, at least from my understanding, likes

2173
01:49:46.520 --> 01:49:49.520
<v Speaker 1>to place commanders who have lots of experience in those

2174
01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:52.279
<v Speaker 1>units as battalion commanders because we want you to be

2175
01:49:52.279 --> 01:49:54.319
<v Speaker 1>successful day one on the job, right. We don't want

2176
01:49:54.319 --> 01:49:57.640
<v Speaker 1>you to learn the proclivities of you know, training in Hawaii,

2177
01:49:57.720 --> 01:49:59.760
<v Speaker 1>which is really hard to train in, right, you know,

2178
01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:01.960
<v Speaker 1>we I want you to understand those things inside now.

2179
01:50:02.520 --> 01:50:04.920
<v Speaker 1>And so I just did my reverse career when I

2180
01:50:04.960 --> 01:50:08.880
<v Speaker 1>applied for a battalion command, and there was that one

2181
01:50:09.000 --> 01:50:12.319
<v Speaker 1>year that I was supposed to be stable before I

2182
01:50:12.359 --> 01:50:15.000
<v Speaker 1>did that PCC battalion command, et cetera. Well, now I

2183
01:50:15.039 --> 01:50:17.960
<v Speaker 1>lose that year, and he goes, I'll tell you what, Jay,

2184
01:50:18.039 --> 01:50:19.159
<v Speaker 1>And this is a guy I was in the one

2185
01:50:19.199 --> 01:50:21.279
<v Speaker 1>hundred and first with as my branch commander or branch

2186
01:50:21.479 --> 01:50:22.199
<v Speaker 1>branch manager.

2187
01:50:22.840 --> 01:50:24.039
<v Speaker 3>He goes, I'll tell you what. If you can find

2188
01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:25.439
<v Speaker 3>anything on island, anything on.

2189
01:50:25.399 --> 01:50:28.319
<v Speaker 1>Island with a you know, an eleven Alpha four, you know,

2190
01:50:28.720 --> 01:50:31.399
<v Speaker 1>bill it pill an infantry officer at the major level,

2191
01:50:32.199 --> 01:50:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll give it to you just for stability. And so

2192
01:50:34.960 --> 01:50:37.520
<v Speaker 1>I immediately went and started to look for something that

2193
01:50:37.600 --> 01:50:40.319
<v Speaker 1>was nominative or had a selection involved in it, so

2194
01:50:40.359 --> 01:50:42.359
<v Speaker 1>that I could lock it in with branch right, because

2195
01:50:42.399 --> 01:50:44.720
<v Speaker 1>if you get invited to a selection or you get nominated,

2196
01:50:44.720 --> 01:50:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't have to go through this, you know, submitting

2197
01:50:46.920 --> 01:50:49.159
<v Speaker 1>my packet and you know, kind of a resume selection.

2198
01:50:50.600 --> 01:50:53.439
<v Speaker 1>And so I went down what was available, and the

2199
01:50:53.479 --> 01:50:56.279
<v Speaker 1>only thing that I could find on island that had

2200
01:50:56.279 --> 01:50:58.479
<v Speaker 1>a selection that would you know, make it where I

2201
01:50:58.479 --> 01:51:03.279
<v Speaker 1>could go compete was this Asymmetric Warfare Group, you know,

2202
01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:06.960
<v Speaker 1>senior strategy advisor to Indo pay Com. I have no

2203
01:51:07.079 --> 01:51:09.960
<v Speaker 1>idea what this job means. I have no idea what

2204
01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:13.199
<v Speaker 1>the unit does. I've heard of it before. I've sent

2205
01:51:13.319 --> 01:51:16.039
<v Speaker 1>guys I've approved guy's packets to go and try out

2206
01:51:16.119 --> 01:51:19.319
<v Speaker 1>for it. Most of them were returned, you know, without

2207
01:51:19.319 --> 01:51:22.399
<v Speaker 1>being selected, and it just this, it's this weird little

2208
01:51:22.560 --> 01:51:25.640
<v Speaker 1>corner of the world that I've never seen except once

2209
01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:28.119
<v Speaker 1>or twice. And I was like, fine, it's got a

2210
01:51:28.119 --> 01:51:30.239
<v Speaker 1>selection that keeps me on island, I'll go for it.

2211
01:51:30.640 --> 01:51:33.239
<v Speaker 1>And so submitted my packet and then followed it right

2212
01:51:33.319 --> 01:51:36.880
<v Speaker 1>up with the recruiter and said, hey, did you get

2213
01:51:36.880 --> 01:51:39.119
<v Speaker 1>my package? Did you get my RB? He was like

2214
01:51:39.279 --> 01:51:42.600
<v Speaker 1>I did, And I was like, are you interested? And

2215
01:51:42.640 --> 01:51:45.279
<v Speaker 1>he's like, we are. And I was like, would you

2216
01:51:45.319 --> 01:51:47.520
<v Speaker 1>be willing to call branch and tell them that if

2217
01:51:47.560 --> 01:51:50.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't shit the bet on the on selection that

2218
01:51:50.319 --> 01:51:52.680
<v Speaker 1>you want me And he was like, I would let

2219
01:51:52.760 --> 01:51:55.039
<v Speaker 1>me talk to a couple of people. Right, it's hard

2220
01:51:55.039 --> 01:51:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to get a staff guy that you know, that has

2221
01:51:57.960 --> 01:52:00.560
<v Speaker 1>some of those experiences to go want to do aft job,

2222
01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:02.920
<v Speaker 1>and for me to be on island. That worked for me,

2223
01:52:03.800 --> 01:52:08.199
<v Speaker 1>and so I kind of accidentally fell into going to

2224
01:52:08.319 --> 01:52:10.960
<v Speaker 1>selection for the Asymmetric Warfare Group and so I went

2225
01:52:11.000 --> 01:52:12.159
<v Speaker 1>to support selections.

2226
01:52:12.359 --> 01:52:16.399
<v Speaker 2>So after that, as we talked about already, you really

2227
01:52:16.399 --> 01:52:19.279
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what the hell this unit did so before

2228
01:52:19.319 --> 01:52:21.800
<v Speaker 2>we get into what it does, Yeah, tell us about selection.

2229
01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so I'll Yeah, I'm not gonna talk a

2230
01:52:28.279 --> 01:52:31.560
<v Speaker 1>whole lot about it because it is it is designed

2231
01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:35.279
<v Speaker 1>to allow you to work through those things in the moment,

2232
01:52:35.760 --> 01:52:38.520
<v Speaker 1>like solving a lot of problems, solving, but also how

2233
01:52:38.720 --> 01:52:41.159
<v Speaker 1>you think through problems. And I'm gonna do not do

2234
01:52:41.239 --> 01:52:43.359
<v Speaker 1>this justice because there are guys who absolutely know this

2235
01:52:43.399 --> 01:52:46.359
<v Speaker 1>better than me. So I forgive, I forget. I'm thinking

2236
01:52:46.359 --> 01:52:48.680
<v Speaker 1>about the guys down at a A A WTC that

2237
01:52:48.720 --> 01:52:50.920
<v Speaker 1>built that thing a smash warfare training center, forgive me,

2238
01:52:50.920 --> 01:52:54.720
<v Speaker 1>as I butcher your your your baby here. But I

2239
01:52:54.800 --> 01:52:59.399
<v Speaker 1>believe the distinction is it's it's slightly less physical, but

2240
01:52:59.479 --> 01:53:04.720
<v Speaker 1>it's extremely intellectual and it's extremely mental. And so we

2241
01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:06.560
<v Speaker 1>want to see how you're going to make decisions. We

2242
01:53:06.600 --> 01:53:08.359
<v Speaker 1>want to see why you're going to make decisions we're

2243
01:53:08.399 --> 01:53:10.239
<v Speaker 1>going to We want to see if you can connect

2244
01:53:10.279 --> 01:53:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the dots, you know, So you get a piece of

2245
01:53:13.119 --> 01:53:15.720
<v Speaker 1>information here, you get a product there, you get an

2246
01:53:15.760 --> 01:53:20.039
<v Speaker 1>idea here. Can you connect the dots and then can

2247
01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:25.600
<v Speaker 1>you take that problem that you've just identified connect the

2248
01:53:25.640 --> 01:53:29.560
<v Speaker 1>dots on the effect that we'll have on an organization

2249
01:53:29.760 --> 01:53:34.239
<v Speaker 1>that's confronting that and then develop a solution for that problem,

2250
01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:37.760
<v Speaker 1>and then go get it in through the training and

2251
01:53:37.880 --> 01:53:41.119
<v Speaker 1>doctrine elements so that by the time you know, sons

2252
01:53:41.159 --> 01:53:44.600
<v Speaker 1>and daughters are showing up to contend with that asymmetric threat,

2253
01:53:45.000 --> 01:53:48.000
<v Speaker 1>they've been trained, prepared, armed to deal with.

2254
01:53:48.079 --> 01:53:51.560
<v Speaker 2>That's actually a pretty heavy lift getting an institution the

2255
01:53:51.600 --> 01:53:55.680
<v Speaker 2>size of the Army to change, you know, identifying problem

2256
01:53:55.720 --> 01:53:57.840
<v Speaker 2>through and forcing new.

2257
01:53:57.720 --> 01:54:02.600
<v Speaker 4>Doctrines, especially before it's like ten years after the fact, right,

2258
01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:05.399
<v Speaker 4>you know, like it before it's like a lessons learned.

2259
01:54:05.439 --> 01:54:06.520
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's change.

2260
01:54:06.319 --> 01:54:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Things right, right, And so the the easy way to

2261
01:54:10.840 --> 01:54:14.520
<v Speaker 1>explain the Asymmetric Warfare Group is it's it's the Army's scouts,

2262
01:54:15.399 --> 01:54:18.399
<v Speaker 1>and so they want to make sure and these guys

2263
01:54:18.399 --> 01:54:20.359
<v Speaker 1>do it. They did do it better than anyone and

2264
01:54:20.399 --> 01:54:22.520
<v Speaker 1>most of them are still out there doing different stuff.

2265
01:54:22.520 --> 01:54:26.319
<v Speaker 1>But their job is to ensure the United States military

2266
01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:29.920
<v Speaker 1>is not surprised again, right by whatever it is. And

2267
01:54:29.960 --> 01:54:36.399
<v Speaker 1>so IEDs, electronic warfare, information warfare, you know, UGVs and UAVs,

2268
01:54:36.560 --> 01:54:39.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of these technologies that we take for

2269
01:54:39.239 --> 01:54:42.479
<v Speaker 1>granted can be their dual technologies and they can be

2270
01:54:42.560 --> 01:54:47.159
<v Speaker 1>weaponized against us. And so we go to where conflict

2271
01:54:47.279 --> 01:54:51.560
<v Speaker 1>is occurring and we observe how as I used to say,

2272
01:54:51.680 --> 01:54:54.079
<v Speaker 1>you know how we're using the kitchen sink in order

2273
01:54:54.119 --> 01:54:58.199
<v Speaker 1>to solve problems, right, right, so just tactical problems are occurring,

2274
01:54:58.920 --> 01:55:01.399
<v Speaker 1>how are the x berts on the ground who are

2275
01:55:01.479 --> 01:55:04.880
<v Speaker 1>dealing with that problem daily dealing with that problem? Right?

2276
01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:07.359
<v Speaker 3>And what lessons can we extract from that?

2277
01:55:08.000 --> 01:55:11.920
<v Speaker 1>And then what dot milk PLP, you know, doctrine, training,

2278
01:55:12.439 --> 01:55:17.560
<v Speaker 1>leadership facilities, the whole system that builds a service member

2279
01:55:17.680 --> 01:55:21.520
<v Speaker 1>from you know, a civilian to a warrior with the

2280
01:55:21.560 --> 01:55:24.159
<v Speaker 1>tools they need to be able to shoot, move and

2281
01:55:24.199 --> 01:55:25.760
<v Speaker 1>communicate on that battlefield.

2282
01:55:26.159 --> 01:55:29.159
<v Speaker 4>It's interesting too because just from an from an outsider

2283
01:55:29.199 --> 01:55:32.720
<v Speaker 4>point of view, you know, like they started out like

2284
01:55:32.760 --> 01:55:37.039
<v Speaker 4>you say, as Task Force ID, which is you know,

2285
01:55:37.439 --> 01:55:40.520
<v Speaker 4>they're out there in the early part of the GAT

2286
01:55:41.159 --> 01:55:45.079
<v Speaker 4>collecting up samples, creating products of like this is what

2287
01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:45.880
<v Speaker 4>to watch out for.

2288
01:55:46.279 --> 01:55:48.640
<v Speaker 3>These are some of the TTPs they were.

2289
01:55:48.680 --> 01:55:52.199
<v Speaker 4>They were going out and collecting up the individual like

2290
01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:56.640
<v Speaker 4>everything they could and then trying to disperse it to

2291
01:55:56.720 --> 01:55:58.680
<v Speaker 4>the white and then then a little bit later in

2292
01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:01.560
<v Speaker 4>the gut, you know, you see these guys come in

2293
01:56:01.600 --> 01:56:04.439
<v Speaker 4>who are all like former operators or former you know,

2294
01:56:04.800 --> 01:56:06.960
<v Speaker 4>former former soft guys or whatever.

2295
01:56:07.119 --> 01:56:09.920
<v Speaker 3>Sure, who are now like going out with.

2296
01:56:09.880 --> 01:56:14.439
<v Speaker 4>These conventional units and almost like an almost like an

2297
01:56:14.479 --> 01:56:16.239
<v Speaker 4>assistant advisor, right.

2298
01:56:16.520 --> 01:56:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, and and literally the title of those guys is

2299
01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:23.079
<v Speaker 1>operational advisor, right. And they go on the ground and

2300
01:56:23.079 --> 01:56:25.159
<v Speaker 1>they say, these are the lessons that we've learned in

2301
01:56:25.239 --> 01:56:27.920
<v Speaker 1>other places that are applicable here, and these are the

2302
01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:31.560
<v Speaker 1>things that we're going to take from this and apply elsewhere. Yeah,

2303
01:56:32.319 --> 01:56:36.439
<v Speaker 1>it's it's one of the most humbling collections of experts.

2304
01:56:36.479 --> 01:56:39.159
<v Speaker 1>And when I say my heroes, I mean like guys

2305
01:56:39.159 --> 01:56:41.920
<v Speaker 1>who did the Pablo Escobar hits. Yeah, you know, guys

2306
01:56:41.920 --> 01:56:44.800
<v Speaker 1>who are in some of the most storied operations of

2307
01:56:44.840 --> 01:56:46.439
<v Speaker 1>the special Operations communities.

2308
01:56:46.520 --> 01:56:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Does it bring in obviously active duty, but also contractors

2309
01:56:51.000 --> 01:56:55.319
<v Speaker 2>and almost so you have a blending of SF ranger

2310
01:56:56.119 --> 01:56:58.279
<v Speaker 2>uh jasok guys.

2311
01:56:58.439 --> 01:57:02.399
<v Speaker 1>Who else was in the mix? So to make it simple,

2312
01:57:02.560 --> 01:57:07.920
<v Speaker 1>there was literally no tribe or no color unrepresented. Yeah.

2313
01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:11.840
<v Speaker 3>None, Like even though we didn't.

2314
01:57:11.560 --> 01:57:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Pull seals on the m too, we had seals as contractor.

2315
01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:19.199
<v Speaker 3>Do do you know how that evolution happened?

2316
01:57:19.239 --> 01:57:21.399
<v Speaker 4>I know it was before your time, but you know

2317
01:57:21.439 --> 01:57:25.479
<v Speaker 4>how that evolution happened from T F I A D

2318
01:57:26.159 --> 01:57:34.319
<v Speaker 4>to somebody going this this deserve more clarity and more attention.

2319
01:57:35.800 --> 01:57:39.159
<v Speaker 1>I believe, you know, General Votel for sure, but General

2320
01:57:39.199 --> 01:57:42.439
<v Speaker 1>Cody also took an active interest in this in his time,

2321
01:57:43.840 --> 01:57:47.319
<v Speaker 1>I think, and I should if I ever get the

2322
01:57:47.359 --> 01:57:49.880
<v Speaker 1>opportunity to talk to General Botel again, I'll probably ask

2323
01:57:49.920 --> 01:57:52.680
<v Speaker 1>him this. At this point, we have kind of a

2324
01:57:52.720 --> 01:57:55.760
<v Speaker 1>storied connection to Once an Eagle as an officer corp,

2325
01:57:55.760 --> 01:57:57.560
<v Speaker 1>particularly in the range of regiment. So you know, Once

2326
01:57:57.600 --> 01:57:59.920
<v Speaker 1>in Eagle is just this book that it's almost require

2327
01:58:00.239 --> 01:58:02.880
<v Speaker 1>reading right next to Starship Troopers for any infantry officer.

2328
01:58:02.960 --> 01:58:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Right the book, not the movie. The book's awesome. And

2329
01:58:07.600 --> 01:58:11.039
<v Speaker 1>inside of Once an Eagle, Sad Sam Damon, the lead character,

2330
01:58:11.119 --> 01:58:15.199
<v Speaker 1>he literally goes to communist China before the war, before

2331
01:58:15.199 --> 01:58:18.119
<v Speaker 1>World War two, embeds with these, as it says in

2332
01:58:18.199 --> 01:58:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the book, you know, these guys are eating a handful

2333
01:58:20.800 --> 01:58:23.840
<v Speaker 1>of rice and living, you know, wearing slippers and running

2334
01:58:23.840 --> 01:58:26.439
<v Speaker 1>through the mountains in twenty degree below weather with you know,

2335
01:58:26.800 --> 01:58:31.239
<v Speaker 1>T shirts on, and they're winning. Like how is that possible?

2336
01:58:32.000 --> 01:58:35.479
<v Speaker 1>And Sad Sam damon, who's you know this pre war

2337
01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:38.720
<v Speaker 1>you know captain in the Philippines, you know, an infantry

2338
01:58:38.760 --> 01:58:41.279
<v Speaker 1>captain gets told to go and in bed with that

2339
01:58:41.439 --> 01:58:46.840
<v Speaker 1>organization and understand that we are seeing a different kind

2340
01:58:46.880 --> 01:58:49.600
<v Speaker 1>of warfare here than we are prepared to fight as

2341
01:58:49.600 --> 01:58:52.880
<v Speaker 1>an American institutional army. And it's got this new thing

2342
01:58:52.920 --> 01:58:55.880
<v Speaker 1>called guerrilla warfare, right, And so sad Sam goes and

2343
01:58:56.159 --> 01:58:58.680
<v Speaker 1>he embeds with that organization and he extracts all the

2344
01:58:58.760 --> 01:59:01.159
<v Speaker 1>lessons that if we are are going to be successful

2345
01:59:01.199 --> 01:59:04.359
<v Speaker 1>against a guerrilla warfare campaign, these are the things we're

2346
01:59:04.359 --> 01:59:07.640
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to train differently, and that we have different equipment,

2347
01:59:07.960 --> 01:59:11.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, different ideas, different doctrine, and he writes this

2348
01:59:11.319 --> 01:59:14.239
<v Speaker 1>huge book about it, right, And the character Sad Sam

2349
01:59:14.279 --> 01:59:16.880
<v Speaker 1>comes back to the Philippines to his commanding officer and

2350
01:59:16.920 --> 01:59:18.880
<v Speaker 1>he hands him all the lessons of the big after

2351
01:59:18.920 --> 01:59:21.720
<v Speaker 1>action review, right, and the commanding officer shoves it in and

2352
01:59:21.720 --> 01:59:23.239
<v Speaker 1>a desk and close the door and we all move

2353
01:59:23.279 --> 01:59:24.359
<v Speaker 1>on to World War two.

2354
01:59:24.800 --> 01:59:26.600
<v Speaker 3>That's never seen again, right, right.

2355
01:59:26.640 --> 01:59:30.199
<v Speaker 1>And so what I believe General Votel in General Cody,

2356
01:59:30.239 --> 01:59:34.840
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to you know, really CODIFY was a learning

2357
01:59:35.000 --> 01:59:37.760
<v Speaker 1>organization for the Army, right, you know, the army is

2358
01:59:37.760 --> 01:59:41.199
<v Speaker 1>a learning organization, right, and so some people called it

2359
01:59:41.239 --> 01:59:43.439
<v Speaker 1>the Army's consultants. But I think that was a little bit,

2360
01:59:43.560 --> 01:59:46.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, a little bit tongue in cheek. But what

2361
01:59:46.840 --> 01:59:50.399
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to do was he wanted to increase the

2362
01:59:50.439 --> 01:59:54.680
<v Speaker 1>deployment or the rapid deployment of capability that we needed

2363
01:59:54.720 --> 01:59:59.479
<v Speaker 1>to fight this breathing, living war that was occurring.

2364
01:59:59.039 --> 02:00:00.000
<v Speaker 3>In multiple countries.

2365
02:00:00.079 --> 02:00:02.439
<v Speaker 1>He's in the Middle East at that point, you know, Iraq, Syria,

2366
02:00:02.479 --> 02:00:03.279
<v Speaker 1>in Afghanistan.

2367
02:00:04.720 --> 02:00:06.600
<v Speaker 4>Just one more question about that, because you said that

2368
02:00:07.720 --> 02:00:10.760
<v Speaker 4>when you a company commander, right with one O. First, Uh,

2369
02:00:10.880 --> 02:00:14.720
<v Speaker 4>when I was a platoon and that these that you know,

2370
02:00:14.760 --> 02:00:16.920
<v Speaker 4>these two A A w G guys were with you,

2371
02:00:18.880 --> 02:00:20.199
<v Speaker 4>how how does that that?

2372
02:00:20.319 --> 02:00:22.279
<v Speaker 3>In the eighty second? I did they have? Yeah? Sorry

2373
02:00:22.319 --> 02:00:22.960
<v Speaker 3>in the second?

2374
02:00:24.439 --> 02:00:27.680
<v Speaker 4>How do these guys out on a combat patrol who

2375
02:00:27.720 --> 02:00:30.520
<v Speaker 4>are advising but also learning. They're also like there to

2376
02:00:30.600 --> 02:00:34.239
<v Speaker 4>take in what's going on, right, but they're also advising.

2377
02:00:34.600 --> 02:00:37.119
<v Speaker 3>How how does that work?

2378
02:00:37.279 --> 02:00:43.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, Uh, it's it's really hard. So how do you,

2379
02:00:43.479 --> 02:00:47.279
<v Speaker 1>as a let's say Master sergeant or or sergeant major

2380
02:00:47.560 --> 02:00:51.560
<v Speaker 1>operational advisor from the aw G how do you embed

2381
02:00:51.600 --> 02:00:56.640
<v Speaker 1>into a company or platoon without assuming command right right,

2382
02:00:56.680 --> 02:01:01.000
<v Speaker 1>without or without undermined right the command. And it's a

2383
02:01:01.039 --> 02:01:04.920
<v Speaker 1>really tricky position, and you know, gray beards do it best,

2384
02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:06.840
<v Speaker 1>which is why I love some of those contractors that

2385
02:01:06.960 --> 02:01:09.560
<v Speaker 1>can come in and do that. But it's a very

2386
02:01:09.920 --> 02:01:14.720
<v Speaker 1>slippery slope of understanding when you're advising the young captain

2387
02:01:14.800 --> 02:01:17.720
<v Speaker 1>and you're mentoring the young captain and never getting on

2388
02:01:17.800 --> 02:01:20.600
<v Speaker 1>his command mic right, things like that. So I just

2389
02:01:20.680 --> 02:01:23.159
<v Speaker 1>little tricks to the trade of giving suggestions to the

2390
02:01:23.239 --> 02:01:28.479
<v Speaker 1>leadership while leading by example with the soldiers right, That

2391
02:01:28.720 --> 02:01:30.319
<v Speaker 1>would be I think the best way I would answer

2392
02:01:30.359 --> 02:01:33.319
<v Speaker 1>is fascinating. It really is really hard, really hard. Yeah,

2393
02:01:33.560 --> 02:01:35.479
<v Speaker 1>I screwed it up a couple of times. Tell us

2394
02:01:35.520 --> 02:01:43.760
<v Speaker 1>about Baker Squadron. So I was selected for the AWG position,

2395
02:01:43.800 --> 02:01:46.079
<v Speaker 1>which you know, it felt like kind of a you know, yeah.

2396
02:01:45.920 --> 02:01:48.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I go out there and be a staff officer man. Well,

2397
02:01:48.319 --> 02:01:48.920
<v Speaker 3>in my.

2398
02:01:50.479 --> 02:01:53.359
<v Speaker 1>Board at the aw G, the last question I was

2399
02:01:53.399 --> 02:01:55.000
<v Speaker 1>telling you guys before and the last question on the

2400
02:01:55.000 --> 02:01:56.760
<v Speaker 1>packet was you know, who do you know? And I

2401
02:01:56.800 --> 02:01:58.520
<v Speaker 1>was like, I don't know anybody in this organization. I

2402
02:01:58.720 --> 02:02:01.720
<v Speaker 1>had no idea I knew everybody in the board, you know.

2403
02:02:01.800 --> 02:02:03.640
<v Speaker 1>I knew the commander, I knew the commander major. I

2404
02:02:03.680 --> 02:02:06.720
<v Speaker 1>knew it like I just knew everybody by reputation, if

2405
02:02:06.760 --> 02:02:09.159
<v Speaker 1>not personally. And in fact, the DCO is a personal

2406
02:02:09.199 --> 02:02:14.199
<v Speaker 1>friend of mine. And at the end of that, the commander,

2407
02:02:14.239 --> 02:02:16.720
<v Speaker 1>who I had known for about ten years, you know

2408
02:02:16.760 --> 02:02:20.720
<v Speaker 1>from previous stuff, he said, a j I want you

2409
02:02:20.800 --> 02:02:23.560
<v Speaker 1>to pick up I don't remember what they call it now,

2410
02:02:23.600 --> 02:02:27.279
<v Speaker 1>but it's like, you know, one package, package one or

2411
02:02:27.319 --> 02:02:29.800
<v Speaker 1>something like that. And I was like, okay, whatever, package one.

2412
02:02:30.600 --> 02:02:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Good to see us her walking out of here. And

2413
02:02:32.600 --> 02:02:34.359
<v Speaker 1>I hit my buddy and I was like, hey, you know,

2414
02:02:34.560 --> 02:02:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the boss said to draw package one. What do you want?

2415
02:02:36.880 --> 02:02:39.479
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean? You know? And he goes, it's

2416
02:02:39.520 --> 02:02:42.159
<v Speaker 1>operator kit. He wants you in full load, not computers.

2417
02:02:42.399 --> 02:02:44.880
<v Speaker 1>He wants you with you know, draw your kit. And

2418
02:02:44.920 --> 02:02:46.439
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I thought he said I was going

2419
02:02:46.520 --> 02:02:49.640
<v Speaker 1>to be in bed at night when I and he

2420
02:02:49.680 --> 02:02:50.840
<v Speaker 1>was like, I don't know, man, he wants you to

2421
02:02:50.920 --> 02:02:53.439
<v Speaker 1>have operator kit. Get operator kid. So I went down

2422
02:02:53.560 --> 02:02:55.239
<v Speaker 1>and it was like you know, kid in a candy store.

2423
02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:59.239
<v Speaker 1>Because the Asymmetric Warfare Group had every bit of experimentation

2424
02:02:59.319 --> 02:03:02.239
<v Speaker 1>and testing whatever you can think about. And so when

2425
02:03:02.279 --> 02:03:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you walk in and say, you know, I need to

2426
02:03:03.680 --> 02:03:05.560
<v Speaker 1>pick up CRY, They're like, well, do you want cry

2427
02:03:05.640 --> 02:03:08.199
<v Speaker 1>or do you want Patagonia? Do you want Patagonia or

2428
02:03:08.239 --> 02:03:10.800
<v Speaker 1>want our tariks like it comes in different camos if

2429
02:03:10.840 --> 02:03:13.279
<v Speaker 1>you want it, you know, so you get to choose

2430
02:03:13.439 --> 02:03:15.039
<v Speaker 1>the things you want, which that was a lot of

2431
02:03:15.039 --> 02:03:16.600
<v Speaker 1>fun for me. I hadn't done that in a while.

2432
02:03:17.640 --> 02:03:20.159
<v Speaker 1>And then I go out to Hawaii where I'm supposed

2433
02:03:20.199 --> 02:03:22.520
<v Speaker 1>to be, you know, in meetings during the day, being

2434
02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:24.920
<v Speaker 1>the eyes in the years of the command and then

2435
02:03:24.960 --> 02:03:27.359
<v Speaker 1>basically reporting back and saying you should put guys here,

2436
02:03:27.399 --> 02:03:29.119
<v Speaker 1>you should put guys there, we should get teams in

2437
02:03:29.159 --> 02:03:32.479
<v Speaker 1>these locations, right. And I got a phone call maybe

2438
02:03:32.520 --> 02:03:34.279
<v Speaker 1>a week or so later, and one of the team

2439
02:03:34.319 --> 02:03:37.439
<v Speaker 1>sergeants was like, you know, one of the troop sergeants,

2440
02:03:37.439 --> 02:03:40.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, It was like, hey, would you be will

2441
02:03:40.199 --> 02:03:42.399
<v Speaker 1>to go to the Philippines with us? We need an

2442
02:03:42.399 --> 02:03:44.479
<v Speaker 1>officer who knows how to do you know, like a

2443
02:03:44.520 --> 02:03:47.439
<v Speaker 1>live fire planning exercise and so that, you know, I.

2444
02:03:47.359 --> 02:03:48.920
<v Speaker 3>Was like, I'd love to go to the Philippines.

2445
02:03:48.920 --> 02:03:51.279
<v Speaker 1>I've never been to the Philippines and the next thing,

2446
02:03:51.279 --> 02:03:53.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm getting broken in by a troop sergeant major,

2447
02:03:54.039 --> 02:03:57.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, going through Korea and Thailand and the Philippines

2448
02:03:57.239 --> 02:04:01.479
<v Speaker 1>and Malaysia and Indonesia. And so I became the Chief

2449
02:04:01.520 --> 02:04:04.880
<v Speaker 1>of Strategy for the Asymmetric Warfare Group, which was my

2450
02:04:04.920 --> 02:04:09.439
<v Speaker 1>official title, but really I was reporting to Baker Squadron

2451
02:04:09.479 --> 02:04:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Asymmetric Warfare Group because they owned the Indo Pacific Area

2452
02:04:13.560 --> 02:04:16.880
<v Speaker 1>of operations. And so the Asymmetric Warfare Group wasn't broken

2453
02:04:16.920 --> 02:04:19.840
<v Speaker 1>down necessarily by region, it was broken down by threat

2454
02:04:20.600 --> 02:04:25.239
<v Speaker 1>and so Baker Squadron was PRC, you know, China focused, right,

2455
02:04:25.640 --> 02:04:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Able Squadron was Russia focused, and so different squadrons have

2456
02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:33.239
<v Speaker 1>different threat focus and they build on those threats with

2457
02:04:33.439 --> 02:04:35.319
<v Speaker 1>those interested parties.

2458
02:04:35.479 --> 02:04:39.000
<v Speaker 2>That was gonna be my next question actually, because the

2459
02:04:39.039 --> 02:04:42.840
<v Speaker 2>way I usually think of Asymmetrical Warfare Group is, yeah,

2460
02:04:42.880 --> 02:04:46.640
<v Speaker 2>the IEDs all the coin encounter insurgents and stuff that

2461
02:04:46.640 --> 02:04:49.479
<v Speaker 2>that's what they were really invested in. But tell us

2462
02:04:49.479 --> 02:04:51.359
<v Speaker 2>a little bit about what they were doing in the Pacific.

2463
02:04:51.399 --> 02:04:52.680
<v Speaker 2>I think that's interesting.

2464
02:04:53.039 --> 02:04:53.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

2465
02:04:53.279 --> 02:04:56.640
<v Speaker 1>So, yes, the ABG, the Asymmetric Warfare Group was very

2466
02:04:56.760 --> 02:04:59.880
<v Speaker 1>much known because almost everybody who rotated through the GLO

2467
02:05:00.239 --> 02:05:03.439
<v Speaker 1>wear on terror into Afghanistan, Iraq or Iraq or Syria,

2468
02:05:03.640 --> 02:05:06.960
<v Speaker 1>probably had an encounter with an operational advisor at some

2469
02:05:07.039 --> 02:05:13.119
<v Speaker 1>point and Baker Squadron while and so in some ways

2470
02:05:13.159 --> 02:05:17.079
<v Speaker 1>the organization did supplement that was you know C Squadron,

2471
02:05:17.479 --> 02:05:18.319
<v Speaker 1>Charlie squad or.

2472
02:05:19.760 --> 02:05:21.640
<v Speaker 3>I forget they're called now, but yeah, C Squadron.

2473
02:05:23.520 --> 02:05:28.479
<v Speaker 1>They they owned that threat, the counter veeo CT threat,

2474
02:05:28.800 --> 02:05:32.159
<v Speaker 1>and so that was their box that they typically rotated into.

2475
02:05:32.279 --> 02:05:34.840
<v Speaker 1>That made sense, that's where the threat is. And then

2476
02:05:35.279 --> 02:05:40.479
<v Speaker 1>Able and Baker were often augmenting and supporting them for

2477
02:05:40.560 --> 02:05:43.720
<v Speaker 1>a number of years. And so as you transition from

2478
02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Task Force I D through a direct report to you know,

2479
02:05:47.640 --> 02:05:49.880
<v Speaker 1>the J three five seven in the Pentagon through it

2480
02:05:49.960 --> 02:05:53.479
<v Speaker 1>you know, now an m towed unit that starts to

2481
02:05:53.560 --> 02:05:57.159
<v Speaker 1>report to Tradeock in twenty thirteen, which you want to

2482
02:05:57.159 --> 02:06:00.239
<v Speaker 1>talk about a culture shift in an organization. Yeah, right,

2483
02:06:00.960 --> 02:06:03.279
<v Speaker 1>So that that was that decision. I'm going to come

2484
02:06:03.319 --> 02:06:04.800
<v Speaker 1>back to your Baker point, but I want to tell

2485
02:06:04.800 --> 02:06:10.119
<v Speaker 1>this too. So that decision to report to trade Dock,

2486
02:06:10.600 --> 02:06:13.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, it wasn't that the organization change. So the

2487
02:06:13.079 --> 02:06:16.720
<v Speaker 1>AWG was still the collection of the same dudes and

2488
02:06:16.840 --> 02:06:19.600
<v Speaker 1>due debts. It had always been the same experiences, the

2489
02:06:19.640 --> 02:06:24.119
<v Speaker 1>same special operations expertise, the same culture of you know,

2490
02:06:24.680 --> 02:06:27.760
<v Speaker 1>we'ren't civilian clothes and you know, not showing up with

2491
02:06:27.880 --> 02:06:29.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, we don't we don't go to a whole

2492
02:06:29.119 --> 02:06:31.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of meetings and uniforms and stuff like that because

2493
02:06:31.319 --> 02:06:34.159
<v Speaker 1>we're always traveling and doing stuff. And then to have

2494
02:06:34.199 --> 02:06:39.439
<v Speaker 1>a trade doc you know, style of institution and bureaucracy

2495
02:06:39.520 --> 02:06:41.600
<v Speaker 1>laid on top of that. And so imagine as a

2496
02:06:41.600 --> 02:06:44.439
<v Speaker 1>squadron commander where I'm like dropping you know, like a

2497
02:06:45.000 --> 02:06:49.399
<v Speaker 1>vouchers my trip to Yukon or to the Ukraine, where

2498
02:06:49.399 --> 02:06:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you know, at a hotel, you know, off

2499
02:06:52.880 --> 02:06:59.560
<v Speaker 1>the so dropping those vouchers into Tradeock's bureaucracy and watching

2500
02:06:59.760 --> 02:07:02.199
<v Speaker 1>their money managers go wait, wait, wait a minute, why

2501
02:07:02.239 --> 02:07:05.520
<v Speaker 1>are you in the four seasons? It's the only hotel

2502
02:07:05.560 --> 02:07:07.920
<v Speaker 1>in Indonesia where I may not get kidnapped, right, And

2503
02:07:08.039 --> 02:07:11.039
<v Speaker 1>just like things like that, And so the culture, you know,

2504
02:07:11.119 --> 02:07:14.399
<v Speaker 1>SHOCK was a little hard for the organization I'm told

2505
02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:16.880
<v Speaker 1>to work through because I wasn't there in those days.

2506
02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:19.560
<v Speaker 1>But I felt like they did a really good job

2507
02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:21.640
<v Speaker 1>of it, and I think it was the right decision.

2508
02:07:21.840 --> 02:07:24.119
<v Speaker 1>It was hard for the guys to you know, kind

2509
02:07:24.119 --> 02:07:26.840
<v Speaker 1>of move under trade OC socially right, But it was

2510
02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:29.600
<v Speaker 1>a really good decision because it connected the eyes and

2511
02:07:29.680 --> 02:07:31.880
<v Speaker 1>ears of the army, the ones that were out there

2512
02:07:32.000 --> 02:07:36.560
<v Speaker 1>seeing and understanding the threat, to the people that actually

2513
02:07:36.600 --> 02:07:38.960
<v Speaker 1>built those solutions for the long term.

2514
02:07:39.119 --> 02:07:41.560
<v Speaker 3>And so it was a brilliant move. As an institution.

2515
02:07:42.079 --> 02:07:44.279
<v Speaker 1>It was difficult for us to manage, but it worked

2516
02:07:44.319 --> 02:07:48.560
<v Speaker 1>really well, and so Baker Squadron. Then as we start

2517
02:07:48.600 --> 02:07:52.239
<v Speaker 1>to transition in at twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen days, we're

2518
02:07:52.279 --> 02:07:56.840
<v Speaker 1>starting to understand that, Okay, the global war on terror

2519
02:07:56.880 --> 02:08:00.239
<v Speaker 1>and counter terrorism is still a thing, and it will

2520
02:08:00.239 --> 02:08:03.159
<v Speaker 1>always be a thing as long as you know, we

2521
02:08:03.199 --> 02:08:06.279
<v Speaker 1>are a huge, large military that you can't fight us

2522
02:08:06.279 --> 02:08:08.439
<v Speaker 1>head to head. So that's always going to be a thing.

2523
02:08:08.880 --> 02:08:11.119
<v Speaker 1>But we need to start looking at the next horizon.

2524
02:08:11.560 --> 02:08:13.760
<v Speaker 1>We need to start looking at the next threat. And

2525
02:08:13.840 --> 02:08:16.399
<v Speaker 1>in those days, if I remember correctly, we believed that,

2526
02:08:16.560 --> 02:08:18.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, while Russia was the most likely to kickstart

2527
02:08:19.000 --> 02:08:22.279
<v Speaker 1>a regional war, it was China that we were most

2528
02:08:22.439 --> 02:08:26.039
<v Speaker 1>concerned with as a competitor. And I was very fortunate

2529
02:08:26.039 --> 02:08:28.279
<v Speaker 1>in those days to be the chief of strategy with

2530
02:08:28.479 --> 02:08:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Baker and Able and the Asymmetric Warfare group out there.

2531
02:08:31.720 --> 02:08:33.159
<v Speaker 3>Because we had General.

2532
02:08:32.840 --> 02:08:38.359
<v Speaker 1>Brown, who was the one the User pac commander the

2533
02:08:38.520 --> 02:08:41.880
<v Speaker 1>United States Army Pacific that his mentality with how to

2534
02:08:42.000 --> 02:08:46.279
<v Speaker 1>compete with China was that word, we're going to compete

2535
02:08:46.439 --> 02:08:47.039
<v Speaker 1>with China.

2536
02:08:47.279 --> 02:08:48.159
<v Speaker 3>They're not our enemy.

2537
02:08:48.479 --> 02:08:52.520
<v Speaker 2>At that time, no one would really identify publicly, the

2538
02:08:52.560 --> 02:08:55.760
<v Speaker 2>military or the government would not identify China as a

2539
02:08:55.800 --> 02:08:58.000
<v Speaker 2>threat or refer to them as an adversary.

2540
02:08:58.520 --> 02:09:03.560
<v Speaker 1>It was always europere competition, right, It's a pacing challenge.

2541
02:09:05.279 --> 02:09:07.880
<v Speaker 3>You speak, officer really well, man, I have.

2542
02:09:07.800 --> 02:09:09.640
<v Speaker 1>To listen to you guys a lot more than I

2543
02:09:09.680 --> 02:09:11.800
<v Speaker 1>really want to. There's a lot of synergy in your

2544
02:09:11.840 --> 02:09:15.279
<v Speaker 1>pacing commumn. Yeah, so it's good. Uh yeah, that was that.

2545
02:09:15.439 --> 02:09:18.359
<v Speaker 1>That was exactly it. And so we you know, Baker

2546
02:09:18.399 --> 02:09:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Squadron in those days in particular, we're spending a lot

2547
02:09:20.960 --> 02:09:24.199
<v Speaker 1>of their time trying to help, you know, into a

2548
02:09:24.279 --> 02:09:27.880
<v Speaker 1>pay comm and user pack in particular, understand where to

2549
02:09:27.960 --> 02:09:32.720
<v Speaker 1>compete and where the competition should occur. And the picture

2550
02:09:32.800 --> 02:09:36.880
<v Speaker 1>that started to develop for us was, you know, terrain

2551
02:09:37.039 --> 02:09:40.159
<v Speaker 1>doesn't change. It's the same thing that we learned as

2552
02:09:40.239 --> 02:09:43.239
<v Speaker 1>young you know, platoon leaders and noncommissioned officers inside of

2553
02:09:43.279 --> 02:09:45.920
<v Speaker 1>any unit, you know the Well, here's the great story.

2554
02:09:45.960 --> 02:09:48.239
<v Speaker 1>So I'm a company commander in Wasi Quah in the

2555
02:09:48.279 --> 02:09:52.039
<v Speaker 1>eighty second Airborne Division in you know, southern Afghanistan, and

2556
02:09:52.399 --> 02:09:55.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at the map like a good officer does

2557
02:09:55.119 --> 02:09:57.960
<v Speaker 1>and doing my map reconnaissance before I drive down this

2558
02:09:58.000 --> 02:10:00.239
<v Speaker 1>thing for the first time, I ed alley is what

2559
02:10:00.279 --> 02:10:03.000
<v Speaker 1>the guys are calling it, and I noticed that there

2560
02:10:03.000 --> 02:10:06.760
<v Speaker 1>are two high points that command iedally on the left

2561
02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:08.119
<v Speaker 1>side of the wadi in the right side, and this

2562
02:10:08.119 --> 02:10:10.800
<v Speaker 1>waddy's near twenty miles wide right, and I went, you know,

2563
02:10:10.920 --> 02:10:13.600
<v Speaker 1>that would be a great place for at TRP right,

2564
02:10:13.960 --> 02:10:15.960
<v Speaker 1>and it would be a great place for you know,

2565
02:10:16.039 --> 02:10:19.439
<v Speaker 1>from maybe a reconnaissance element to do some overwatch. You know,

2566
02:10:19.760 --> 02:10:22.199
<v Speaker 1>we can think about that, right, And so I drive

2567
02:10:22.279 --> 02:10:25.239
<v Speaker 1>out there with my convoy. I mean, I'm brilliant, clearly,

2568
02:10:25.520 --> 02:10:27.479
<v Speaker 1>like I've looked at a map. I know exactly where

2569
02:10:27.479 --> 02:10:30.000
<v Speaker 1>these high points are, and we need to command these things.

2570
02:10:30.279 --> 02:10:32.479
<v Speaker 3>And I get out there and that, I kid you not.

2571
02:10:32.600 --> 02:10:35.079
<v Speaker 1>There's a castle on the left and there's a castle

2572
02:10:35.119 --> 02:10:38.600
<v Speaker 1>on the right. And I turned to my interpreter, and

2573
02:10:38.640 --> 02:10:42.199
<v Speaker 1>I was like, who built those? And he's like, that

2574
02:10:42.239 --> 02:10:44.920
<v Speaker 1>one's Russian and that one's British, And I don't mean

2575
02:10:44.960 --> 02:10:49.199
<v Speaker 1>from this century. Like, we have been fighting the same

2576
02:10:49.359 --> 02:10:53.039
<v Speaker 1>war in the same location for the same terrain, for

2577
02:10:53.119 --> 02:10:56.760
<v Speaker 1>different reasons, for literally hundreds of years, in generations. And

2578
02:10:56.800 --> 02:11:01.119
<v Speaker 1>the lesson that I took from that was terrain doesn't change.

2579
02:11:01.239 --> 02:11:04.960
<v Speaker 1>And so when we went out to the Pacific and

2580
02:11:05.000 --> 02:11:07.479
<v Speaker 1>we were thinking through how to help where should we

2581
02:11:07.600 --> 02:11:11.439
<v Speaker 1>compete with China, Well, let's look at the terrain, right,

2582
02:11:11.920 --> 02:11:15.760
<v Speaker 1>And so the Malacca Strait became very important for trade.

2583
02:11:15.960 --> 02:11:18.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, obviously Taiwan becomes very important. And when you

2584
02:11:18.600 --> 02:11:22.960
<v Speaker 1>really start breaking down the geography of the Pacific, there

2585
02:11:23.119 --> 02:11:26.439
<v Speaker 1>becomes locations that you need to own to be able

2586
02:11:26.479 --> 02:11:29.319
<v Speaker 1>to project combat power into it. And so when you

2587
02:11:29.359 --> 02:11:31.760
<v Speaker 1>look at like the Marshall Plan or the MacArthur right,

2588
02:11:31.800 --> 02:11:35.079
<v Speaker 1>so when MacArthur moved through there in World War two,

2589
02:11:35.119 --> 02:11:38.479
<v Speaker 1>the island hopping campaign that we all know, right, if

2590
02:11:38.520 --> 02:11:41.319
<v Speaker 1>you look at the map, you can see how well, okay,

2591
02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:43.720
<v Speaker 1>we went to Fiji because in the old days we

2592
02:11:43.760 --> 02:11:46.680
<v Speaker 1>needed a water refill for our sale ships, and then

2593
02:11:46.680 --> 02:11:49.359
<v Speaker 1>we needed coal for our coal burning ships, and then

2594
02:11:49.640 --> 02:11:53.800
<v Speaker 1>you needed a resource to resupply from crossing the Pacific

2595
02:11:53.840 --> 02:11:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Ocean from the continent. And then you get there and

2596
02:11:56.880 --> 02:12:01.359
<v Speaker 1>you island hop to work your way into the Philippines

2597
02:12:01.840 --> 02:12:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and the Malacca Straits right there. Well, when you start

2598
02:12:04.520 --> 02:12:07.560
<v Speaker 1>to look at island hopping that MacArthur did, you can

2599
02:12:07.640 --> 02:12:10.880
<v Speaker 1>see what's happening is we need to get from island

2600
02:12:10.960 --> 02:12:14.560
<v Speaker 1>A to island B. And on the way to island B,

2601
02:12:15.439 --> 02:12:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the enemy has a vote in this conversation.

2602
02:12:17.760 --> 02:12:19.840
<v Speaker 3>And we have Ewajima, yeah.

2603
02:12:20.319 --> 02:12:23.680
<v Speaker 1>And we have Peleelu, and we have these places that

2604
02:12:24.039 --> 02:12:29.520
<v Speaker 1>they're not strategically important except they give us strategic access

2605
02:12:30.000 --> 02:12:33.079
<v Speaker 1>to resources that we have to use in order to

2606
02:12:33.079 --> 02:12:37.319
<v Speaker 1>project combat power to the mainland. And so the Malacca

2607
02:12:37.359 --> 02:12:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Strait became really important to understanding how do you compete

2608
02:12:41.039 --> 02:12:45.640
<v Speaker 1>for the Malacca Strait when Malaysia is trying to develop

2609
02:12:46.000 --> 02:12:50.119
<v Speaker 1>and China is building the rail system that's connecting from

2610
02:12:50.119 --> 02:12:53.359
<v Speaker 1>the Malacca Strait to the opposite port, and you've got

2611
02:12:53.479 --> 02:12:56.079
<v Speaker 1>terrorism in the Sabah and you've got I mean, and

2612
02:12:56.119 --> 02:12:59.159
<v Speaker 1>you just start looking at the tie separatists above it,

2613
02:12:59.239 --> 02:13:03.479
<v Speaker 1>and you realize is that Malaysia. We drew an arbitrary line,

2614
02:13:04.119 --> 02:13:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and the Thai separatists are actually Malaysian. They're melee and

2615
02:13:07.960 --> 02:13:10.439
<v Speaker 1>that's why they're separatists from Thailand, and that's why you

2616
02:13:10.479 --> 02:13:14.319
<v Speaker 1>have that fight there, and you start to truly understand,

2617
02:13:14.560 --> 02:13:17.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, why we've been fighting over some of these

2618
02:13:17.239 --> 02:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>pieces of terrain. It's not hard to extrapolate again that

2619
02:13:22.039 --> 02:13:24.279
<v Speaker 1>we will again. And so now you look at it

2620
02:13:24.279 --> 02:13:27.720
<v Speaker 1>from the perspective of, well, let's just update the technology

2621
02:13:27.760 --> 02:13:32.359
<v Speaker 1>at play. So now we need satellites, and now we

2622
02:13:32.439 --> 02:13:37.720
<v Speaker 1>need aircraft, and now we need flotillas. And if you're

2623
02:13:37.840 --> 02:13:41.039
<v Speaker 1>crossing the ocean, and I challenge everyone to look at

2624
02:13:41.039 --> 02:13:44.199
<v Speaker 1>a map of the Pacific, and it is a daunting

2625
02:13:44.319 --> 02:13:46.399
<v Speaker 1>exercise when you look at the time it takes to

2626
02:13:46.399 --> 02:13:50.520
<v Speaker 1>get to Australia, and that's not even the start point

2627
02:13:50.640 --> 02:13:52.439
<v Speaker 1>for most of us to get into the Pacific.

2628
02:13:52.560 --> 02:13:53.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, So you're.

2629
02:13:53.560 --> 02:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Talking about how do you sequence these really exquisite assets

2630
02:13:59.399 --> 02:14:04.399
<v Speaker 1>in order to conduct a bounding fight into the Pacific

2631
02:14:04.479 --> 02:14:07.960
<v Speaker 1>like literally army bounding Navy and navy bounding Air Force

2632
02:14:08.039 --> 02:14:11.840
<v Speaker 1>like World War two style with modern technology, and you

2633
02:14:11.920 --> 02:14:18.159
<v Speaker 1>start to see, oh, we're gonna need to own GUAM.

2634
02:14:18.520 --> 02:14:25.840
<v Speaker 4>Out of curiosity why I understand why AWG, like what

2635
02:14:25.920 --> 02:14:29.159
<v Speaker 4>the benefit of being under trade DOC and in the

2636
02:14:29.159 --> 02:14:33.079
<v Speaker 4>theoretical terms, but trade DOC in my mind, is not

2637
02:14:33.319 --> 02:14:39.000
<v Speaker 4>a quick moving organization. It seems like belabored by a

2638
02:14:39.039 --> 02:14:41.840
<v Speaker 4>lot of bureaucracy and it's training.

2639
02:14:41.960 --> 02:14:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Right.

2640
02:14:42.760 --> 02:14:48.199
<v Speaker 4>How why is AWG uh not under inscom or or

2641
02:14:48.439 --> 02:14:55.000
<v Speaker 4>USU or somebody that that understands the need to move

2642
02:14:55.079 --> 02:14:56.399
<v Speaker 4>quickly on certain things.

2643
02:14:56.560 --> 02:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I'll challenge that just a little bit, okay,

2644
02:15:01.479 --> 02:15:05.119
<v Speaker 1>because I think the reason why a w G was

2645
02:15:05.279 --> 02:15:09.359
<v Speaker 1>fought for by Trade Dock and Tradeock wanted the a

2646
02:15:09.520 --> 02:15:12.560
<v Speaker 1>w oh really okay, is because they wanted to be

2647
02:15:12.680 --> 02:15:16.560
<v Speaker 1>able to increase that cycle, okay, And and they knew

2648
02:15:16.600 --> 02:15:19.800
<v Speaker 1>that to do that they needed to bring in and

2649
02:15:19.800 --> 02:15:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know General Funk, who was the last Trade

2650
02:15:21.800 --> 02:15:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Dock commander that I served under. He you know, he

2651
02:15:25.119 --> 02:15:27.079
<v Speaker 1>used to call us the seventy fifth Ranger Regiment of

2652
02:15:27.119 --> 02:15:29.720
<v Speaker 1>Trade Dock, and you know, and in some ways that

2653
02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:32.399
<v Speaker 1>was a compliment and in some ways that was a shot,

2654
02:15:32.560 --> 02:15:37.359
<v Speaker 1>right because he's an armor officer, so he but he

2655
02:15:37.399 --> 02:15:41.239
<v Speaker 1>was a phenomenal, phenomenal commander. So I think I think

2656
02:15:41.279 --> 02:15:44.920
<v Speaker 1>it was fought for by trade DOC because if our

2657
02:15:45.119 --> 02:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>job is to go out and ensure that the United

2658
02:15:48.760 --> 02:15:51.840
<v Speaker 1>States Army is never surprised again, right, we have to

2659
02:15:51.880 --> 02:15:55.920
<v Speaker 1>be able to increase our ability to rapidly prototype and

2660
02:15:55.960 --> 02:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>disseminate and train and get those tools into the inventory.

2661
02:16:00.960 --> 02:16:03.680
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of what we're talking about doesn't have

2662
02:16:03.880 --> 02:16:05.560
<v Speaker 1>like a hard product to it.

2663
02:16:05.560 --> 02:16:07.319
<v Speaker 3>Like it's not like we're going out and you know.

2664
02:16:07.319 --> 02:16:10.880
<v Speaker 1>We built drones and we build underground you know vehicle

2665
02:16:11.079 --> 02:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>or you know ground vehicles, and we did all kinds

2666
02:16:13.720 --> 02:16:16.119
<v Speaker 1>of techie stuff, but we also did a lot of

2667
02:16:16.119 --> 02:16:19.560
<v Speaker 1>stuff about like decision making and leadership on you know,

2668
02:16:19.760 --> 02:16:23.039
<v Speaker 1>under stress and you know AVPs. Yeah, yeah, you know

2669
02:16:23.079 --> 02:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>sniper sniper TTPs. Like that's the tactical stuff, right. But

2670
02:16:28.319 --> 02:16:33.399
<v Speaker 1>I think what what really was important about us being

2671
02:16:33.479 --> 02:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>under trade DOC and the reason why I think it

2672
02:16:35.200 --> 02:16:38.440
<v Speaker 1>was the right move for the institution is it allowed

2673
02:16:38.520 --> 02:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>us to help the organize the Army move faster to

2674
02:16:42.280 --> 02:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>provide those services to our service.

2675
02:16:44.639 --> 02:16:49.600
<v Speaker 4>So trade out wanted that and they they were able to, uh,

2676
02:16:49.639 --> 02:16:55.159
<v Speaker 4>they were able to shd or change evolved based on

2677
02:16:55.600 --> 02:16:57.719
<v Speaker 4>like what you guys were providing.

2678
02:16:58.440 --> 02:17:00.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm not here to tell you that the am Warfare Group,

2679
02:17:00.959 --> 02:17:03.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, revolutionized trade DOC. That not happened. Sure, we

2680
02:17:03.959 --> 02:17:06.840
<v Speaker 1>were a small part of that conversation. I would just

2681
02:17:06.840 --> 02:17:10.360
<v Speaker 1>say the leadership of Trade DOC understood the value of

2682
02:17:10.399 --> 02:17:14.040
<v Speaker 1>having that organization underneath their guide on and they employed

2683
02:17:14.079 --> 02:17:14.760
<v Speaker 1>us to the fullest.

2684
02:17:14.760 --> 02:17:16.600
<v Speaker 3>So that's fantastic to hear us.

2685
02:17:16.399 --> 02:17:19.319
<v Speaker 2>About able squadron in the Russia focus. That was sort

2686
02:17:19.319 --> 02:17:21.959
<v Speaker 2>of your follow up, right to become.

2687
02:17:21.760 --> 02:17:24.559
<v Speaker 1>The squadron commander there, right, Yeah, yeah, So I was

2688
02:17:24.600 --> 02:17:27.559
<v Speaker 1>fortunate enough that I think I mentioned it to you guys.

2689
02:17:27.600 --> 02:17:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I was at a premission training a PMT with Baker Squadron,

2690
02:17:31.040 --> 02:17:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and it was the first time I'd gone through a

2691
02:17:33.239 --> 02:17:37.159
<v Speaker 1>real PMT with, you know, the Asymmetric Warfare Group. So

2692
02:17:37.200 --> 02:17:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I've done PMTs with other teams and units, but I've

2693
02:17:39.600 --> 02:17:44.879
<v Speaker 1>never done this one. And I was just humbled. So

2694
02:17:45.559 --> 02:17:48.159
<v Speaker 1>let me paint an egotistical picture and then show you

2695
02:17:48.239 --> 02:17:49.280
<v Speaker 1>how humbled I got.

2696
02:17:50.360 --> 02:17:52.360
<v Speaker 3>So I'm a senior major.

2697
02:17:52.920 --> 02:17:55.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm literally, you know, a breath away from being a

2698
02:17:55.920 --> 02:17:59.440
<v Speaker 1>lieutenant colonel. I'm going to get a command. It's the

2699
02:17:59.520 --> 02:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>question is what kind of command is it's going to be.

2700
02:18:03.559 --> 02:18:07.840
<v Speaker 1>And I've been a ground force commander and you know,

2701
02:18:08.040 --> 02:18:11.440
<v Speaker 1>some amazing special operations units multiple times. And in fact,

2702
02:18:11.559 --> 02:18:13.840
<v Speaker 1>I've just come off being a ground force commander like

2703
02:18:13.879 --> 02:18:17.079
<v Speaker 1>three or four years ago, Like I'm I understand how

2704
02:18:17.239 --> 02:18:20.079
<v Speaker 1>fighting works at the tactical and operational level, I think,

2705
02:18:21.120 --> 02:18:25.399
<v Speaker 1>and I've employed it in an environment that not many

2706
02:18:25.840 --> 02:18:28.559
<v Speaker 1>leaders get to do in their careers, where you've got,

2707
02:18:28.600 --> 02:18:32.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, anywhere from five to fifteen aircraft stacked in

2708
02:18:32.159 --> 02:18:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the airspace above you, with maneuver units on the ground,

2709
02:18:34.920 --> 02:18:38.159
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and you're doing a high value target

2710
02:18:38.319 --> 02:18:41.079
<v Speaker 1>you know X to the X strikes and just these

2711
02:18:41.159 --> 02:18:47.680
<v Speaker 1>amazing synchronizations of these assets in dynamic space occurring and

2712
02:18:47.760 --> 02:18:52.399
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to control that ball all at once. I

2713
02:18:52.440 --> 02:18:55.360
<v Speaker 1>feel pretty confident in my ability to do that. I

2714
02:18:55.440 --> 02:18:57.520
<v Speaker 1>finish it off with you know, a couple of master's

2715
02:18:57.559 --> 02:19:00.559
<v Speaker 1>degrees and how to you know, deal with people that

2716
02:19:00.600 --> 02:19:03.600
<v Speaker 1>you know in three letter agencies and build coalitions and

2717
02:19:03.639 --> 02:19:07.280
<v Speaker 1>I prefer your personality over your personality. And I finish

2718
02:19:07.399 --> 02:19:11.239
<v Speaker 1>that off, and then I go become an XO in

2719
02:19:11.280 --> 02:19:16.840
<v Speaker 1>a large organization where I'm doing logistics support across the

2720
02:19:16.879 --> 02:19:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Pacific while I'm in Australia and Malaysia, Like, I feel

2721
02:19:20.799 --> 02:19:23.760
<v Speaker 1>like I kind of know what I'm doing at this point,

2722
02:19:24.559 --> 02:19:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and I show up to this AWGPMT and the first

2723
02:19:28.680 --> 02:19:31.479
<v Speaker 1>thing they have us do is we called it multi

2724
02:19:31.559 --> 02:19:34.959
<v Speaker 1>domain battle. And now, of course we know that as

2725
02:19:35.000 --> 02:19:38.360
<v Speaker 1>multi domain operations, but in those days, there was just

2726
02:19:38.440 --> 02:19:42.280
<v Speaker 1>this concept of multi domain battle. And multi domain battle

2727
02:19:42.360 --> 02:19:47.079
<v Speaker 1>is the integration of cyber and space and air and

2728
02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:50.639
<v Speaker 1>land and sea, and understanding that the environment cannot be

2729
02:19:50.719 --> 02:19:53.120
<v Speaker 1>bifurcated as it was in the old days, and that

2730
02:19:53.120 --> 02:19:55.040
<v Speaker 1>the Navy does the Navy stuff and the Army does

2731
02:19:55.079 --> 02:19:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the Army stuff. It's no longer true. We got to

2732
02:19:57.479 --> 02:19:59.120
<v Speaker 1>be able to do a little bit everything. We have

2733
02:19:59.200 --> 02:20:01.479
<v Speaker 1>to do it as a co piece of team to

2734
02:20:01.559 --> 02:20:04.239
<v Speaker 1>really be able to project that effect that the only

2735
02:20:04.360 --> 02:20:07.479
<v Speaker 1>United States military can do. And so.

2736
02:20:12.799 --> 02:20:15.040
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, I lost my things. Oh you're saying like this

2737
02:20:15.159 --> 02:20:16.479
<v Speaker 4>was a really humbling moment for you.

2738
02:20:16.639 --> 02:20:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. And so the first exercise is we go

2739
02:20:20.719 --> 02:20:24.000
<v Speaker 1>through kind of a tabletop exercise of what is multi

2740
02:20:24.040 --> 02:20:27.959
<v Speaker 1>domain battle and what are the potentials? And then we

2741
02:20:28.200 --> 02:20:31.520
<v Speaker 1>follow that up with I am a Ground Force commander

2742
02:20:32.280 --> 02:20:35.840
<v Speaker 1>playing a ground force commander at the Asymmetric Warfare Training

2743
02:20:35.920 --> 02:20:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Unit or training center which has amazing subterranean you know,

2744
02:20:40.079 --> 02:20:43.360
<v Speaker 1>subway systems and you know high rises and just all this.

2745
02:20:43.479 --> 02:20:43.760
<v Speaker 3>It's this.

2746
02:20:44.159 --> 02:20:46.639
<v Speaker 1>You can go full cyber range down there in those days,

2747
02:20:46.680 --> 02:20:50.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, so you could do full multi domain battle

2748
02:20:51.040 --> 02:20:54.600
<v Speaker 1>on this site. And I've got five of the most

2749
02:20:54.639 --> 02:20:58.399
<v Speaker 1>impressive sergeants majors who have taken off their wreath to

2750
02:20:58.479 --> 02:21:02.120
<v Speaker 1>do this job right around me, as like my rto

2751
02:21:02.360 --> 02:21:05.159
<v Speaker 1>my radio telephone operator. So it's not like I've got

2752
02:21:05.200 --> 02:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, myself on a radio playing like a JTACH

2753
02:21:08.079 --> 02:21:12.440
<v Speaker 1>and a CCT and like I have legit the best

2754
02:21:12.479 --> 02:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>in the business who train the best in the business

2755
02:21:15.000 --> 02:21:18.479
<v Speaker 1>on how to do that function surrounding me as a headquarters.

2756
02:21:19.120 --> 02:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>And we had social media play like doing social media reconnaissance.

2757
02:21:23.840 --> 02:21:29.360
<v Speaker 1>We had underground unmanned vehicles with subterranean maneuvers with you know,

2758
02:21:29.440 --> 02:21:34.120
<v Speaker 1>low oxygen, no oxygen, hazardous particulate, the whole nine underneath there.

2759
02:21:34.159 --> 02:21:37.520
<v Speaker 1>We had drones when in those days drones was a

2760
02:21:37.520 --> 02:21:41.159
<v Speaker 1>brand new concept, and we were talking swarms of drones.

2761
02:21:41.559 --> 02:21:44.719
<v Speaker 1>And We're doing all of this in one exercise where

2762
02:21:44.760 --> 02:21:48.680
<v Speaker 1>I've got three teams on the ground conducting deep reconnaissance

2763
02:21:48.680 --> 02:21:52.440
<v Speaker 1>in order to bring in combat power. And at the

2764
02:21:52.479 --> 02:21:56.360
<v Speaker 1>after action review of that event, I stood up and

2765
02:21:56.399 --> 02:22:01.479
<v Speaker 1>I said, if one bullet had been fired, I would

2766
02:22:01.520 --> 02:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>have been overwhelmed.

2767
02:22:03.479 --> 02:22:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Because of the amount of things you're managing at the

2768
02:22:05.559 --> 02:22:06.719
<v Speaker 2>same time, because.

2769
02:22:06.440 --> 02:22:09.799
<v Speaker 1>Of the amount of information I'm trying to digest the

2770
02:22:09.920 --> 02:22:13.559
<v Speaker 1>picture I'm trying to understand in a live combat situation,

2771
02:22:14.120 --> 02:22:16.959
<v Speaker 1>and I've got the best of the best of the

2772
02:22:17.040 --> 02:22:20.239
<v Speaker 1>best performing a role that would be done by someone

2773
02:22:20.399 --> 02:22:21.760
<v Speaker 1>fifteen twenty years younger.

2774
02:22:21.840 --> 02:22:24.120
<v Speaker 2>With us, it's a real issue. I mean, when you

2775
02:22:24.159 --> 02:22:27.000
<v Speaker 2>think about the way we're trying to integrate some sort

2776
02:22:27.040 --> 02:22:30.399
<v Speaker 2>of reality plus goggles, which I think that's like the

2777
02:22:30.440 --> 02:22:33.840
<v Speaker 2>wave of the future. But you can easily see how

2778
02:22:33.879 --> 02:22:37.600
<v Speaker 2>much information is too much information more than is able

2779
02:22:37.920 --> 02:22:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that they can process and know what to do with.

2780
02:22:41.319 --> 02:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I think one of the best things we did for

2781
02:22:43.639 --> 02:22:48.760
<v Speaker 1>multi domain operations was to have a conversation about echelon, right,

2782
02:22:49.000 --> 02:22:52.799
<v Speaker 1>and so there's certain yeah, so there's In those days,

2783
02:22:52.920 --> 02:22:55.120
<v Speaker 1>it was all about let's get the enabler as lowd

2784
02:22:55.159 --> 02:22:57.399
<v Speaker 1>as possible, so let's get everything to the squad level,

2785
02:22:57.440 --> 02:22:58.079
<v Speaker 1>the team level.

2786
02:22:58.159 --> 02:22:58.280
<v Speaker 3>Right.

2787
02:22:58.280 --> 02:23:01.239
<v Speaker 1>That's because that's what our experience is, what we're overseas,

2788
02:23:01.719 --> 02:23:04.959
<v Speaker 1>so every lethal enabler goes to the line, right. And

2789
02:23:05.079 --> 02:23:07.600
<v Speaker 1>what we quickly started to learn is if this you know,

2790
02:23:08.680 --> 02:23:12.840
<v Speaker 1>senior major with all of this experience surrounded by this,

2791
02:23:12.920 --> 02:23:18.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, literally team of sergeants majors can't do this. Okay,

2792
02:23:18.760 --> 02:23:21.159
<v Speaker 1>we got to figure this out, and so we started

2793
02:23:21.239 --> 02:23:26.879
<v Speaker 1>eche lining those capabilities based upon where those tools were

2794
02:23:27.040 --> 02:23:30.719
<v Speaker 1>arrayed inside of the Army's system. And so some things,

2795
02:23:30.760 --> 02:23:35.440
<v Speaker 1>for space do not exist below the brigade level. You've

2796
02:23:35.440 --> 02:23:37.440
<v Speaker 1>got to go to division to get them. You've got

2797
02:23:37.440 --> 02:23:39.079
<v Speaker 1>to go to corp to get them, you've got to

2798
02:23:39.120 --> 02:23:41.879
<v Speaker 1>go to army to get them. Right. And so let's

2799
02:23:42.000 --> 02:23:45.040
<v Speaker 1>let them manage those things, and let's find a way

2800
02:23:45.079 --> 02:23:49.239
<v Speaker 1>to have connective tissue between those echelons so that commanders

2801
02:23:49.280 --> 02:23:54.040
<v Speaker 1>can choose how to employ those effects together, but the

2802
02:23:54.159 --> 02:23:58.840
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for managing them can be withheld at a location

2803
02:23:58.920 --> 02:24:00.600
<v Speaker 1>that could properly do it or nationally.

2804
02:24:01.000 --> 02:24:04.200
<v Speaker 4>I'm curious because when you start talking about multi multi

2805
02:24:04.200 --> 02:24:09.440
<v Speaker 4>domain and how all these things go together, how, especially

2806
02:24:09.479 --> 02:24:15.959
<v Speaker 4>like at an aw G level, I imagine that obviously

2807
02:24:16.440 --> 02:24:19.799
<v Speaker 4>army cyber or military cyber like you guys can get

2808
02:24:20.120 --> 02:24:25.360
<v Speaker 4>a decent read on what capabilities are. And and yet

2809
02:24:25.559 --> 02:24:27.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, when we're talking about like the NSA or

2810
02:24:27.959 --> 02:24:31.000
<v Speaker 4>maybe the n r O or or these other organizations,

2811
02:24:31.959 --> 02:24:34.559
<v Speaker 4>how do they play into this because I imagine at.

2812
02:24:34.399 --> 02:24:37.879
<v Speaker 3>Some point they're like, well, like they.

2813
02:24:37.840 --> 02:24:39.360
<v Speaker 4>Don't want to give up, they don't want to give

2814
02:24:39.440 --> 02:24:42.840
<v Speaker 4>up the you know, give up the goods. Sure necessarily, right,

2815
02:24:43.000 --> 02:24:48.719
<v Speaker 4>So somebody at some level, Yeah, it has to know

2816
02:24:49.280 --> 02:24:51.079
<v Speaker 4>what are all these capabilities are.

2817
02:24:51.200 --> 02:24:54.440
<v Speaker 3>But does that person who knows what all these capabilities are,

2818
02:24:54.799 --> 02:24:58.680
<v Speaker 3>are they like qualified or competent to manage all these

2819
02:24:58.680 --> 02:25:01.120
<v Speaker 3>capabilities or do they just know that they exist?

2820
02:25:01.760 --> 02:25:04.879
<v Speaker 1>So I'll try to That's a really tough question, and

2821
02:25:04.920 --> 02:25:06.559
<v Speaker 1>so I'm going to try to answer that the best

2822
02:25:06.559 --> 02:25:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I can by giving an analogy. Yeah, so, if you

2823
02:25:09.479 --> 02:25:12.200
<v Speaker 1>walk into any company on the planet right now, looking

2824
02:25:12.239 --> 02:25:16.399
<v Speaker 1>at yours, right, you've probably got an Apple computer, an

2825
02:25:16.559 --> 02:25:19.319
<v Speaker 1>HP computer. You know, one of you's on Microsoft, some

2826
02:25:19.360 --> 02:25:22.159
<v Speaker 1>of you have Zoom. You know, you've got one guy

2827
02:25:22.200 --> 02:25:25.360
<v Speaker 1>who has that weird like alien computer and his software

2828
02:25:25.399 --> 02:25:28.840
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matching of your software. And so what we find

2829
02:25:28.879 --> 02:25:31.479
<v Speaker 1>in large organizations that have been around for a long

2830
02:25:31.520 --> 02:25:36.440
<v Speaker 1>time is we have layers of understanding and capability that

2831
02:25:36.479 --> 02:25:38.840
<v Speaker 1>have been that some are you grown a little bit

2832
02:25:38.879 --> 02:25:42.120
<v Speaker 1>better and some are a little bit less developed, less mature, right,

2833
02:25:42.559 --> 02:25:45.079
<v Speaker 1>And what's important is if we can understand how to

2834
02:25:45.200 --> 02:25:48.040
<v Speaker 1>layer them all together to achieve the best effect. And

2835
02:25:48.079 --> 02:25:51.520
<v Speaker 1>so ideally, if you're on all Apple hardware with an

2836
02:25:51.680 --> 02:25:56.760
<v Speaker 1>M one chip running Microsoft you know, Microsoft teams that

2837
02:25:56.840 --> 02:26:02.200
<v Speaker 1>is incorporating Copilot from open Ai, and your team now

2838
02:26:02.479 --> 02:26:09.520
<v Speaker 1>only uses Apple computers, Microsoft stops Microsoft software and an

2839
02:26:09.680 --> 02:26:13.639
<v Speaker 1>l M from open Ai, that's it. And you just

2840
02:26:13.799 --> 02:26:17.360
<v Speaker 1>train on that persistently and consistently you're going to get

2841
02:26:17.440 --> 02:26:20.079
<v Speaker 1>really good at those things. Right. We find the same

2842
02:26:20.120 --> 02:26:23.959
<v Speaker 1>when you start talking about che lining capabilities in multi

2843
02:26:24.000 --> 02:26:25.159
<v Speaker 1>domain battle.

2844
02:26:25.479 --> 02:26:26.760
<v Speaker 3>There are operations.

2845
02:26:26.760 --> 02:26:30.280
<v Speaker 1>There are some that are you know, really mature and

2846
02:26:30.280 --> 02:26:32.479
<v Speaker 1>and lots of people understand how to play with them,

2847
02:26:32.479 --> 02:26:36.159
<v Speaker 1>like drones and you know, unmanned aerial is really starting

2848
02:26:36.200 --> 02:26:37.799
<v Speaker 1>to get something that you know, these kids are growing

2849
02:26:37.879 --> 02:26:40.079
<v Speaker 1>up playing right stuff, right, and so now as they

2850
02:26:40.120 --> 02:26:43.639
<v Speaker 1>come in the the ability to employ that effectively is

2851
02:26:43.719 --> 02:26:46.600
<v Speaker 1>really mature. And then there are some that will under

2852
02:26:47.440 --> 02:26:50.719
<v Speaker 1>water autonomous vehicles. We don't have a lot of experience

2853
02:26:50.719 --> 02:26:52.520
<v Speaker 1>with that in the army. We're gonna have to go

2854
02:26:52.559 --> 02:26:54.440
<v Speaker 1>to the Navy to do that, right, have we ever

2855
02:26:54.479 --> 02:26:58.120
<v Speaker 1>done those things in conjunction? And so understanding where the

2856
02:26:58.399 --> 02:27:02.239
<v Speaker 1>possible you know, venda is for that capability and that

2857
02:27:02.360 --> 02:27:07.559
<v Speaker 1>need and then building an exercise or something that exercises

2858
02:27:07.840 --> 02:27:10.600
<v Speaker 1>right that that capability does that help answer that?

2859
02:27:10.600 --> 02:27:11.319
<v Speaker 3>Does it does?

2860
02:27:11.639 --> 02:27:16.000
<v Speaker 4>And how willing are some of the organizations out there

2861
02:27:16.680 --> 02:27:20.719
<v Speaker 4>to share their capabilities in these types.

2862
02:27:20.520 --> 02:27:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Of environment My experience has been varied, that's varied. Yeah, no,

2863
02:27:24.639 --> 02:27:28.120
<v Speaker 1>very very very very very willing. I I have run

2864
02:27:28.120 --> 02:27:30.799
<v Speaker 1>into you know, protecting my rice bowl and making sure

2865
02:27:30.799 --> 02:27:33.520
<v Speaker 1>that no, this is what I do. But to be

2866
02:27:33.559 --> 02:27:36.719
<v Speaker 1>honest in my experience, I just haven't had a lot

2867
02:27:36.760 --> 02:27:41.479
<v Speaker 1>of those a lot of those run ins, right, And Yeah,

2868
02:27:41.559 --> 02:27:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Generally what I find is when you show up, you know,

2869
02:27:43.799 --> 02:27:46.079
<v Speaker 1>like a multi domain task force or something like that,

2870
02:27:46.120 --> 02:27:48.680
<v Speaker 1>and you go, hey, I know how to build water bottles,

2871
02:27:48.760 --> 02:27:50.399
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, we don't know if we need water

2872
02:27:50.399 --> 02:27:52.799
<v Speaker 1>bottles yet, but go over there and start building water bottles.

2873
02:27:52.879 --> 02:27:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining the team. So I don't see that

2874
02:27:56.360 --> 02:28:00.559
<v Speaker 1>in the military, for sure. Three letter agencies a little bit.

2875
02:28:00.719 --> 02:28:02.559
<v Speaker 1>I saw a little bit of that, Yeah, but I

2876
02:28:02.600 --> 02:28:04.399
<v Speaker 1>didn't have armies has more of like a can do

2877
02:28:04.559 --> 02:28:07.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of attitude. Right, it's a little bit like, yeah,

2878
02:28:07.120 --> 02:28:08.479
<v Speaker 1>we don't know what you do here, but you're one

2879
02:28:08.479 --> 02:28:10.200
<v Speaker 1>of us. Yeah, you know, jump on, yeah, you know,

2880
02:28:10.280 --> 02:28:12.600
<v Speaker 1>we'll figure out where you figure right, Yeah, get on

2881
02:28:12.639 --> 02:28:13.319
<v Speaker 1>the bus and fit in.

2882
02:28:13.959 --> 02:28:16.719
<v Speaker 2>And so you went on to one more assignment before

2883
02:28:16.799 --> 02:28:19.040
<v Speaker 2>retirement at a special Operations Command.

2884
02:28:19.200 --> 02:28:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, well we didn't even talk about Able Squadron there.

2885
02:28:22.479 --> 02:28:25.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, wait, did we go right over that? We did? Yeah? Yeah.

2886
02:28:25.760 --> 02:28:28.280
<v Speaker 1>So I was fortunate enough after that to go to

2887
02:28:28.280 --> 02:28:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Able Squadron, which was you know, Russia focused, and so

2888
02:28:31.360 --> 02:28:34.520
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one that was my that

2889
02:28:34.639 --> 02:28:38.319
<v Speaker 1>was my assignment there. Built an amazing team and we

2890
02:28:38.520 --> 02:28:41.280
<v Speaker 1>were working deeply with US Army Europe and you know,

2891
02:28:41.360 --> 02:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the team over there to you know, figure out what

2892
02:28:45.479 --> 02:28:48.120
<v Speaker 1>does it look like if you're going to deploy a

2893
02:28:48.200 --> 02:28:52.200
<v Speaker 1>package like in World War Two style, like a large

2894
02:28:52.280 --> 02:28:56.559
<v Speaker 1>ground scale combat operation Normandy Beach, right, what does that

2895
02:28:56.639 --> 02:29:00.760
<v Speaker 1>look like in modern day? And the premise that we

2896
02:29:00.879 --> 02:29:05.559
<v Speaker 1>operate within is contact with the enemy starts at our

2897
02:29:05.600 --> 02:29:06.280
<v Speaker 1>home base.

2898
02:29:06.799 --> 02:29:08.360
<v Speaker 3>It's happening right now.

2899
02:29:08.799 --> 02:29:13.520
<v Speaker 1>You're in contact with the enemy either electronically, informationally whatever

2900
02:29:13.559 --> 02:29:17.600
<v Speaker 1>it might be with the adversary right now. And so,

2901
02:29:17.959 --> 02:29:21.079
<v Speaker 1>how do you move the one hundred and first Airborne

2902
02:29:21.079 --> 02:29:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Division from Fort campbl Kentucky's at so Fort campbl, Kentucky.

2903
02:29:24.799 --> 02:29:30.399
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure Fort Campbell, Kentucky to let's say, you know, Paris,

2904
02:29:31.040 --> 02:29:34.559
<v Speaker 1>how do you get there undetected? How does that happen?

2905
02:29:35.120 --> 02:29:37.440
<v Speaker 1>And so I would say almost not possible at this point.

2906
02:29:37.520 --> 02:29:40.719
<v Speaker 3>So then do you make it an information campaign? Okay?

2907
02:29:40.879 --> 02:29:42.760
<v Speaker 1>So then you get to the port and you've all

2908
02:29:42.799 --> 02:29:44.959
<v Speaker 1>seen port ops right because we've all been to NTC

2909
02:29:45.079 --> 02:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>and JRTC and you're downloading all of this equipment. So clearly,

2910
02:29:48.280 --> 02:29:51.399
<v Speaker 1>now in the age of social media, you're under reconnaissance

2911
02:29:51.440 --> 02:29:54.799
<v Speaker 1>active reconnaissance, which means as I'm watching things come off

2912
02:29:54.799 --> 02:29:58.319
<v Speaker 1>the boat, I'm able to understand echelon unit, you know

2913
02:29:58.319 --> 02:30:00.639
<v Speaker 1>where they're coming from, with their capability are because most

2914
02:30:00.680 --> 02:30:03.399
<v Speaker 1>of that's open source. And then you start turning on

2915
02:30:03.479 --> 02:30:07.399
<v Speaker 1>all of your electronics and a really interesting things happens

2916
02:30:07.399 --> 02:30:10.559
<v Speaker 1>in the electromagnetic spectrum. When Americans start turning stuff on,

2917
02:30:11.280 --> 02:30:14.959
<v Speaker 1>we look like Americans because you get you know, six

2918
02:30:15.000 --> 02:30:17.159
<v Speaker 1>to nine, you know, dudes and dudets in the back

2919
02:30:17.200 --> 02:30:20.040
<v Speaker 1>of a Blackhawk, and all of them have Apple Washes

2920
02:30:20.200 --> 02:30:23.879
<v Speaker 1>and iPhones and Samsung's and one five two Harrises and

2921
02:30:24.159 --> 02:30:28.000
<v Speaker 1>all the communications equipment that only the United States of

2922
02:30:28.040 --> 02:30:32.360
<v Speaker 1>America only can possibly do. And then I can give

2923
02:30:32.399 --> 02:30:35.360
<v Speaker 1>you chlanning, meaning I can tell that's a division headquarters.

2924
02:30:35.639 --> 02:30:38.520
<v Speaker 3>I can tell that's a brigade headquarters, guys, right.

2925
02:30:39.280 --> 02:30:43.000
<v Speaker 1>And so we started building this understanding of what the

2926
02:30:43.079 --> 02:30:48.000
<v Speaker 1>multi domain battle space looked like from an adversarial, large

2927
02:30:48.000 --> 02:30:52.000
<v Speaker 1>scale ground combat position, right. And we take those lessons

2928
02:30:52.079 --> 02:30:55.239
<v Speaker 1>back from working you know, within Poland and Ukraine and

2929
02:30:55.280 --> 02:30:58.520
<v Speaker 1>the Baltics and the Balkans and looking at where you

2930
02:30:58.559 --> 02:31:01.000
<v Speaker 1>know conflict is happening and what lessons we can take

2931
02:31:01.000 --> 02:31:03.319
<v Speaker 1>from that, and we bring it back to our training

2932
02:31:03.399 --> 02:31:07.079
<v Speaker 1>centers and then we rep it and develop it into

2933
02:31:07.120 --> 02:31:09.760
<v Speaker 1>something that can then go into tradeock that can then

2934
02:31:09.799 --> 02:31:13.600
<v Speaker 1>start being disseminated throughout the team. This culminated for us

2935
02:31:13.680 --> 02:31:16.600
<v Speaker 1>in an NTC rotation. I think it was the first

2936
02:31:16.600 --> 02:31:20.680
<v Speaker 1>time an AWG squadron had ever gone to NTC. We

2937
02:31:20.719 --> 02:31:23.040
<v Speaker 1>painted a rock by the way still out there. I

2938
02:31:23.040 --> 02:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>had my squadron do it. It was fun.

2939
02:31:24.479 --> 02:31:25.200
<v Speaker 3>I made them do it.

2940
02:31:25.680 --> 02:31:28.079
<v Speaker 1>I helped, but I made them so they painted a

2941
02:31:28.159 --> 02:31:31.719
<v Speaker 1>rock out there first time. And what we were doing

2942
02:31:31.959 --> 02:31:35.840
<v Speaker 1>was helping the unit that was in the box think

2943
02:31:35.920 --> 02:31:39.600
<v Speaker 1>through how to employ these multi domain, large scale ground

2944
02:31:39.680 --> 02:31:44.040
<v Speaker 1>combat techniques that we had been repping and practicing in

2945
02:31:44.079 --> 02:31:47.760
<v Speaker 1>the European theater. And so some really fun stuff started

2946
02:31:47.799 --> 02:31:50.200
<v Speaker 1>to happen. Where I think the lesson that I took

2947
02:31:50.239 --> 02:31:54.040
<v Speaker 1>from that entire exercise was in the modern day, modern

2948
02:31:54.120 --> 02:31:57.719
<v Speaker 1>day battlefield, the commander who's willing to turn off the

2949
02:31:57.799 --> 02:31:59.600
<v Speaker 1>lights first is going to win.

2950
02:32:00.479 --> 02:32:01.479
<v Speaker 3>It's really interesting.

2951
02:32:01.520 --> 02:32:04.440
<v Speaker 4>You know, we hear about singin and human all the time,

2952
02:32:04.959 --> 02:32:07.760
<v Speaker 4>but you know, you're talking a lot about like mass

2953
02:32:07.799 --> 02:32:10.040
<v Speaker 4>and like elents things like that.

2954
02:32:09.799 --> 02:32:10.600
<v Speaker 1>That I don't.

2955
02:32:10.719 --> 02:32:12.760
<v Speaker 3>They don't. They don't. Really they weren't.

2956
02:32:13.159 --> 02:32:15.600
<v Speaker 4>They didn't used to really be a thing, right that

2957
02:32:15.639 --> 02:32:18.079
<v Speaker 4>you needed to worry about, right, but now but now

2958
02:32:18.079 --> 02:32:19.040
<v Speaker 4>they're almost everything.

2959
02:32:19.120 --> 02:32:22.399
<v Speaker 1>So think about uh uh, you know ambush protocol, right,

2960
02:32:22.479 --> 02:32:25.799
<v Speaker 1>So silence violence, silence right, right? This is standard you know,

2961
02:32:26.120 --> 02:32:29.159
<v Speaker 1>grunt stuff. I'm walking through the woods, make contact.

2962
02:32:29.399 --> 02:32:29.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't.

2963
02:32:29.799 --> 02:32:32.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm not quiet anymore, right, I'm yelling and I'm shooting

2964
02:32:32.520 --> 02:32:35.120
<v Speaker 1>and everything. It's explosions, it's violence. And then as soon

2965
02:32:35.159 --> 02:32:38.840
<v Speaker 1>as we're clear, right back down to silence. Right, think

2966
02:32:38.879 --> 02:32:42.760
<v Speaker 1>about that electronically now, yeah, yeah, all of your systems

2967
02:32:42.799 --> 02:32:46.280
<v Speaker 1>are up. You are literally on the electromagnetic spectrum. You're

2968
02:32:46.360 --> 02:32:50.319
<v Speaker 1>glowing like you were just a glowing beam a target.

2969
02:32:50.959 --> 02:32:53.719
<v Speaker 1>And then all of a sudden, all those go off,

2970
02:32:54.079 --> 02:32:57.559
<v Speaker 1>and then you disperse and infiltrate, and then you have

2971
02:32:57.799 --> 02:33:00.799
<v Speaker 1>decisions about when to do calm windows just submarines do

2972
02:33:00.920 --> 02:33:04.319
<v Speaker 1>so that you are giving a picture to the enemy,

2973
02:33:04.840 --> 02:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>a battlefield arrayment that you want them to digest, and

2974
02:33:09.479 --> 02:33:13.360
<v Speaker 1>you want them to counter array towards. And as soon

2975
02:33:13.399 --> 02:33:16.799
<v Speaker 1>as you can confirm the composition, disposition, and strength of

2976
02:33:16.799 --> 02:33:19.680
<v Speaker 1>that counter arrayment, and then you can give your final

2977
02:33:19.840 --> 02:33:23.399
<v Speaker 1>intent based orders because only the Americans can run on

2978
02:33:23.479 --> 02:33:28.840
<v Speaker 1>intent based orders. And your boys deploy, and then you

2979
02:33:28.920 --> 02:33:30.559
<v Speaker 1>turn off all the lights. And what I mean by

2980
02:33:30.559 --> 02:33:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that is you jam everything. Nothing electronic works. You can't

2981
02:33:34.719 --> 02:33:37.360
<v Speaker 1>see them, they can't see you, you can't talk to you,

2982
02:33:37.360 --> 02:33:41.040
<v Speaker 1>you can't talk to anybody. And the commander who's willing

2983
02:33:41.120 --> 02:33:43.959
<v Speaker 1>to do that, first confirm battlefield arrayment and then turn

2984
02:33:44.000 --> 02:33:46.600
<v Speaker 1>off the lights. After he set his team, they're gonna

2985
02:33:46.600 --> 02:33:48.399
<v Speaker 1>win that fight. That's what I think we learned that

2986
02:33:48.799 --> 02:33:51.639
<v Speaker 1>a little bit interesting. I mean, first off, you know

2987
02:33:51.680 --> 02:33:53.559
<v Speaker 1>from what you're talking about. I mean we think about

2988
02:33:54.120 --> 02:33:56.879
<v Speaker 1>back in the old days, signature production you know in

2989
02:33:57.000 --> 02:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Vietnam was like taping down right stuff so you don't

2990
02:33:59.440 --> 02:34:01.879
<v Speaker 1>have metal on that, you know, all that kind of thing.

2991
02:34:02.159 --> 02:34:06.479
<v Speaker 1>Today's signature reduction is the IR spectrum, it's electromagnetic, all

2992
02:34:06.520 --> 02:34:11.920
<v Speaker 1>this sort of stuff. But also during the g WATT,

2993
02:34:11.959 --> 02:34:15.079
<v Speaker 1>I think there's this real propensity to use modern day

2994
02:34:15.280 --> 02:34:19.120
<v Speaker 1>information technology for a general to basically reach all the

2995
02:34:19.120 --> 02:34:21.639
<v Speaker 1>way down the chain of command to the posability right.

2996
02:34:22.079 --> 02:34:26.959
<v Speaker 1>But with you know, if we're facing a electronic warfare

2997
02:34:27.040 --> 02:34:30.680
<v Speaker 1>environment in future fights, that we may be going back

2998
02:34:30.719 --> 02:34:32.719
<v Speaker 1>to the old days. Like I'm reading it's in my

2999
02:34:32.799 --> 02:34:33.559
<v Speaker 1>bag book.

3000
02:34:34.719 --> 02:34:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Frank Subcheck wrote a book about special forces and partnership

3001
02:34:38.760 --> 02:34:42.120
<v Speaker 2>relations in El Salvador in the nineteen eighties. It's like

3002
02:34:42.239 --> 02:34:45.719
<v Speaker 2>some of these seventh Special Forces Group NCOs would be

3003
02:34:46.000 --> 02:34:49.000
<v Speaker 2>out in the bush country in El Salvador and not

3004
02:34:49.159 --> 02:34:53.639
<v Speaker 2>have any communication with their commanders for weeks, if not months, Right.

3005
02:34:54.959 --> 02:34:59.159
<v Speaker 1>I would compliment that thinking with I believe, and I'm

3006
02:34:59.159 --> 02:35:01.280
<v Speaker 1>a little outdated, so you know, four or five years

3007
02:35:01.319 --> 02:35:03.319
<v Speaker 1>out of date, so it may have changed, I hope

3008
02:35:03.319 --> 02:35:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. The future battlefield is a megacity. It

3009
02:35:08.200 --> 02:35:10.639
<v Speaker 1>is a it is a littoral mega city. So it's

3010
02:35:10.680 --> 02:35:13.479
<v Speaker 1>a megacity with water deep water access, you know, New

3011
02:35:13.559 --> 02:35:17.040
<v Speaker 1>York City, Taipei, you know, yeah, there you go. And

3012
02:35:17.079 --> 02:35:21.799
<v Speaker 1>so that means that you're going to have subterranean spaces

3013
02:35:21.920 --> 02:35:25.280
<v Speaker 1>ten stories down easy, Like just think of the subway

3014
02:35:25.280 --> 02:35:27.280
<v Speaker 1>system in New York City and the way I typically

3015
02:35:27.319 --> 02:35:29.479
<v Speaker 1>paint this picture to folks in New York City is

3016
02:35:29.639 --> 02:35:33.479
<v Speaker 1>imagine ten nine to elevens a day. Right, That's what

3017
02:35:33.719 --> 02:35:36.840
<v Speaker 1>megacity warfare is going to look like against a pure

3018
02:35:36.840 --> 02:35:40.360
<v Speaker 1>threat in a large scale ground combat engagement. That means

3019
02:35:40.399 --> 02:35:44.079
<v Speaker 1>that our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines and now space

3020
02:35:44.079 --> 02:35:48.879
<v Speaker 1>cadets are going down into ten story deep subterranean where

3021
02:35:48.959 --> 02:35:51.520
<v Speaker 1>right now we're still having to pump oxygen because we

3022
02:35:51.559 --> 02:35:55.360
<v Speaker 1>don't have pappers, right, Okay, how do you communicate down there? Right?

3023
02:35:55.600 --> 02:35:56.200
<v Speaker 3>And so we.

3024
02:35:56.239 --> 02:36:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Played with mesh systems, we've played with right GPS. So

3025
02:36:00.799 --> 02:36:04.280
<v Speaker 1>now take that you know, team out of ten stories

3026
02:36:04.440 --> 02:36:07.159
<v Speaker 1>deep and now they come up to the surface and

3027
02:36:07.159 --> 02:36:10.200
<v Speaker 1>now they go into a ten story high rise Think

3028
02:36:10.200 --> 02:36:13.680
<v Speaker 1>about the equipment changes you would want to make right now,

3029
02:36:14.159 --> 02:36:17.600
<v Speaker 1>think about the communication changes. Think, I mean, just everything

3030
02:36:17.600 --> 02:36:20.559
<v Speaker 1>that we do to shoot, move and communicate. We're literally

3031
02:36:20.600 --> 02:36:23.879
<v Speaker 1>talking gets combined into you know, a ten by ten

3032
02:36:23.920 --> 02:36:27.440
<v Speaker 1>square island that's just full of this dense urban terrain.

3033
02:36:27.920 --> 02:36:30.959
<v Speaker 1>And then when you get outside into the countryside, you're

3034
02:36:31.040 --> 02:36:35.000
<v Speaker 1>back into a whole different Now you're back into camouflage. Right, yes, right,

3035
02:36:35.079 --> 02:36:38.799
<v Speaker 1>And so we have to build an expert team. This

3036
02:36:38.840 --> 02:36:41.159
<v Speaker 1>is what America has always done best is we have

3037
02:36:41.239 --> 02:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>built a all volunteer which quite frankly looks like a

3038
02:36:45.440 --> 02:36:48.120
<v Speaker 1>special operations military to everyone else.

3039
02:36:48.719 --> 02:36:51.799
<v Speaker 4>It's fascin you know, it's fascinating when when you're talking

3040
02:36:51.799 --> 02:36:55.559
<v Speaker 4>about like going dark and the you know, the signature

3041
02:36:55.639 --> 02:36:59.440
<v Speaker 4>and things like that. I remember back in dl I,

3042
02:36:59.440 --> 02:37:01.639
<v Speaker 4>one of the guys there was a civil affairs or

3043
02:37:01.719 --> 02:37:06.440
<v Speaker 4>not civil for h a syops guy, and he would

3044
02:37:06.520 --> 02:37:09.760
<v Speaker 4>joke and say, you know, like they're commanding officer to say, hey,

3045
02:37:09.799 --> 02:37:12.799
<v Speaker 4>go to this top of this hill and pretend that

3046
02:37:12.840 --> 02:37:15.600
<v Speaker 4>you're a tank. And he'd be like, hey, sir, how

3047
02:37:15.600 --> 02:37:17.559
<v Speaker 4>about we send a tank up there and pretend it's like,

3048
02:37:18.000 --> 02:37:21.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, nobody sure, And and the idea is that

3049
02:37:22.639 --> 02:37:26.239
<v Speaker 4>you know, pyops. Obviously syops has evolved and it's like

3050
02:37:26.319 --> 02:37:28.440
<v Speaker 4>social media and a lot of other stuff now too.

3051
02:37:29.040 --> 02:37:32.120
<v Speaker 4>But when we start talking about these signatures and how

3052
02:37:32.280 --> 02:37:35.000
<v Speaker 4>the enemy responds to sims, reminds me of like the

3053
02:37:35.079 --> 02:37:39.159
<v Speaker 4>tank on the hill, right, or or cardboard tanks made

3054
02:37:39.159 --> 02:37:40.079
<v Speaker 4>to look up World War.

3055
02:37:41.959 --> 02:37:42.120
<v Speaker 1>That.

3056
02:37:42.239 --> 02:37:49.200
<v Speaker 4>Now, now, how is like psyops going to you know,

3057
02:37:49.319 --> 02:37:51.559
<v Speaker 4>be involved when it comes to tell that story.

3058
02:37:51.639 --> 02:37:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, to these electronic signature Now you get into missing

3059
02:37:54.399 --> 02:37:59.200
<v Speaker 1>disinformation and information warfare. Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely, it's absolutely

3060
02:37:59.280 --> 02:38:01.760
<v Speaker 1>yet and so that that was another thing that we

3061
02:38:02.399 --> 02:38:05.399
<v Speaker 1>clearly started working on was information warfare, and that's what

3062
02:38:05.440 --> 02:38:08.079
<v Speaker 1>we called it in those days. And one of the

3063
02:38:08.120 --> 02:38:10.559
<v Speaker 1>first things that we started to recognize was that, you know,

3064
02:38:11.120 --> 02:38:14.079
<v Speaker 1>there's two types of information that we're being confronted with.

3065
02:38:14.760 --> 02:38:20.559
<v Speaker 1>There's information that is from friendly sources but it's just inaccurate,

3066
02:38:21.360 --> 02:38:23.360
<v Speaker 1>which is what we would call a first report. I mean,

3067
02:38:23.399 --> 02:38:27.200
<v Speaker 1>every first report is always inaccurate. And then there's information

3068
02:38:27.319 --> 02:38:31.719
<v Speaker 1>that is from an adversary that is intended to disrupt

3069
02:38:31.840 --> 02:38:35.040
<v Speaker 1>your decision making cycle. And how do you distinguish between

3070
02:38:35.079 --> 02:38:39.399
<v Speaker 1>the two. In the modern world where I go on X,

3071
02:38:39.920 --> 02:38:42.799
<v Speaker 1>I go on Facebook, I go on threads. I don't

3072
02:38:42.799 --> 02:38:44.319
<v Speaker 1>go on threads because I just have too many at

3073
02:38:44.319 --> 02:38:47.360
<v Speaker 1>this point. But you go on those platforms and you

3074
02:38:47.399 --> 02:38:52.000
<v Speaker 1>can literally find the opposite of whatever it is that

3075
02:38:52.079 --> 02:38:55.479
<v Speaker 1>you found anywhere else at any given time. And so

3076
02:38:55.760 --> 02:38:59.799
<v Speaker 1>miss and disinformation is something that our military has been

3077
02:39:00.280 --> 02:39:02.159
<v Speaker 1>to contend with for the last you know, at least

3078
02:39:02.200 --> 02:39:04.040
<v Speaker 1>five or six years, I would say, since the early

3079
02:39:04.040 --> 02:39:04.600
<v Speaker 1>COVID days.

3080
02:39:04.680 --> 02:39:07.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think that, you know, they've also because of

3081
02:39:07.719 --> 02:39:13.280
<v Speaker 4>social media that whether it's political operatives or foreign you know,

3082
02:39:13.319 --> 02:39:16.319
<v Speaker 4>thread actors, foreign nations, whatever, have gotten very good at

3083
02:39:16.319 --> 02:39:18.520
<v Speaker 4>poisoning the well in the sense of when there is

3084
02:39:18.559 --> 02:39:22.559
<v Speaker 4>a true report, they've been getting very good at They're

3085
02:39:22.559 --> 02:39:24.879
<v Speaker 4>they're very good at getting out ahead of it and

3086
02:39:25.840 --> 02:39:31.879
<v Speaker 4>throwing false information things that can be debunked as part

3087
02:39:31.959 --> 02:39:35.440
<v Speaker 4>of that true information, so that when those things are debunked,

3088
02:39:35.520 --> 02:39:38.479
<v Speaker 4>everybody ignores the true information by saying, oh, it's already

3089
02:39:38.520 --> 02:39:39.040
<v Speaker 4>been debunked.

3090
02:39:39.120 --> 02:39:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we started calling that information overmatch. Where you're you're

3091
02:39:42.799 --> 02:39:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you're just being confronted with so much information you just

3092
02:39:47.000 --> 02:39:51.040
<v Speaker 1>cognitively cannot process what is true, what is fiction, what

3093
02:39:51.200 --> 02:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>is important, what isn't important, and it is absolutely something

3094
02:39:55.479 --> 02:39:58.559
<v Speaker 1>that we've built some systems. I know of some teams

3095
02:39:58.559 --> 02:40:01.760
<v Speaker 1>that have built some targeting idea theologies. Because it's not

3096
02:40:01.879 --> 02:40:07.719
<v Speaker 1>a technical solution, it's a human cognition understanding the source,

3097
02:40:08.200 --> 02:40:11.520
<v Speaker 1>the intent, and then the applicability to that particular moment

3098
02:40:11.799 --> 02:40:13.040
<v Speaker 1>that is really really hard.

3099
02:40:13.200 --> 02:40:18.200
<v Speaker 4>So let me ask you a controversial opinion in that

3100
02:40:19.399 --> 02:40:23.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, we have seen our government at times and.

3101
02:40:22.959 --> 02:40:23.520
<v Speaker 3>We see it.

3102
02:40:23.559 --> 02:40:27.120
<v Speaker 4>I think that like in special operations, these ideas that

3103
02:40:27.840 --> 02:40:36.559
<v Speaker 4>social media things like that need to.

3104
02:40:33.719 --> 02:40:35.520
<v Speaker 3>Be restricted, or.

3105
02:40:36.879 --> 02:40:41.440
<v Speaker 4>That they're that you know, we need to protect against

3106
02:40:41.440 --> 02:40:44.319
<v Speaker 4>foreign influence things like that, and you run into one

3107
02:40:44.360 --> 02:40:48.000
<v Speaker 4>a issues like where where do you think the military

3108
02:40:48.159 --> 02:40:50.399
<v Speaker 4>and the government in general should be on the on

3109
02:40:50.479 --> 02:40:51.680
<v Speaker 4>those types of topics.

3110
02:40:52.719 --> 02:40:58.479
<v Speaker 1>My personal opinion is we should use information to our advantage.

3111
02:40:58.760 --> 02:41:01.680
<v Speaker 1>And so that means just like I can walk down

3112
02:41:01.680 --> 02:41:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the street and I can choose that deli or that bodega,

3113
02:41:06.440 --> 02:41:09.879
<v Speaker 1>or that pizza hut or that McDonald's. I can choose

3114
02:41:10.520 --> 02:41:13.399
<v Speaker 1>where I'm going to pull my information from that I

3115
02:41:13.440 --> 02:41:17.280
<v Speaker 1>think is going to be most probably most probably to

3116
02:41:17.360 --> 02:41:20.319
<v Speaker 1>be right. I can then look at a track record

3117
02:41:20.399 --> 02:41:24.200
<v Speaker 1>of that information to verify that this one has been

3118
02:41:24.239 --> 02:41:27.600
<v Speaker 1>probabilistically more correct than those others, and I can choose

3119
02:41:27.639 --> 02:41:30.120
<v Speaker 1>to go to a different location if I don't like

3120
02:41:30.200 --> 02:41:35.159
<v Speaker 1>the source there. I can then choose which points of

3121
02:41:35.200 --> 02:41:38.879
<v Speaker 1>those information I am going to incorporate for an effect.

3122
02:41:39.440 --> 02:41:41.360
<v Speaker 1>And so this is the same idea of well, I

3123
02:41:41.360 --> 02:41:44.280
<v Speaker 1>can just choose which information I want. And so my

3124
02:41:44.399 --> 02:41:48.559
<v Speaker 1>response to it is, I think we're post truth in

3125
02:41:48.639 --> 02:41:52.000
<v Speaker 1>a post truth era. I think there is no longer

3126
02:41:52.280 --> 02:41:55.360
<v Speaker 1>a truth. I think there is a version of truth

3127
02:41:55.440 --> 02:42:00.200
<v Speaker 1>based on that moment in time, and that applicability can

3128
02:42:00.319 --> 02:42:03.200
<v Speaker 1>be pulled away and can be extracted to be useful.

3129
02:42:03.520 --> 02:42:08.479
<v Speaker 1>But we're so overwhelmed with information. Our natural bias as

3130
02:42:08.559 --> 02:42:12.399
<v Speaker 1>humans is to short circuit that and to say I

3131
02:42:12.559 --> 02:42:15.600
<v Speaker 1>like this information because it fits into the narrative that

3132
02:42:15.680 --> 02:42:19.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling, and so I can easily draw the conclusions

3133
02:42:19.600 --> 02:42:22.840
<v Speaker 1>for it. And so I think we, as particularly American

3134
02:42:23.000 --> 02:42:26.000
<v Speaker 1>service members and you know, in Americans in general, we

3135
02:42:26.120 --> 02:42:31.000
<v Speaker 1>have to become more discriminatory about the types of information

3136
02:42:31.120 --> 02:42:34.280
<v Speaker 1>that we're allowing to be connected to our narratives, and

3137
02:42:34.319 --> 02:42:37.639
<v Speaker 1>we have to be deliberate about verifying that that is

3138
02:42:37.680 --> 02:42:40.079
<v Speaker 1>a source that we are choosing to trust on this,

3139
02:42:40.719 --> 02:42:43.879
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's really important these days to listen

3140
02:42:44.120 --> 02:42:46.239
<v Speaker 1>to the source itself.

3141
02:42:46.719 --> 02:42:47.959
<v Speaker 3>It's why I think that.

3142
02:42:49.079 --> 02:42:53.120
<v Speaker 1>In the modern era where we are right now, human

3143
02:42:53.239 --> 02:42:55.399
<v Speaker 1>touch and authenticity are going to win.

3144
02:42:55.520 --> 02:42:56.399
<v Speaker 3>Every single time.

3145
02:42:57.920 --> 02:43:00.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, the sound bites, the thirty second, you know

3146
02:43:00.719 --> 02:43:04.600
<v Speaker 1>elevator speeches, you know you've got one minute to describe

3147
02:43:04.600 --> 02:43:08.079
<v Speaker 1>what's wrong in Afghanistan. I mean like those types of

3148
02:43:08.200 --> 02:43:12.639
<v Speaker 1>engagements are no longer satisfying because I think we as

3149
02:43:12.760 --> 02:43:18.120
<v Speaker 1>a population have started to become aware that we can

3150
02:43:18.239 --> 02:43:22.079
<v Speaker 1>pick and choose which truth we want to align with,

3151
02:43:22.879 --> 02:43:26.399
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't mean it's always going to be true,

3152
02:43:26.920 --> 02:43:30.760
<v Speaker 1>and we have the ability to interrogate that continuously, but

3153
02:43:30.879 --> 02:43:33.719
<v Speaker 1>only if we're willing to do so as an individual.

3154
02:43:34.200 --> 02:43:35.920
<v Speaker 3>My example for this is COVID.

3155
02:43:36.440 --> 02:43:38.840
<v Speaker 1>COVID was the first time in human history that I

3156
02:43:38.879 --> 02:43:42.520
<v Speaker 1>believe that I'm aware of that we not only knew

3157
02:43:42.760 --> 02:43:47.520
<v Speaker 1>what we wanted to do, we knew how to disseminate it,

3158
02:43:48.079 --> 02:43:51.719
<v Speaker 1>and then we knew how to socially enforce it on

3159
02:43:51.799 --> 02:43:55.399
<v Speaker 1>almost global scale like that has never occurred. We've never

3160
02:43:55.440 --> 02:44:00.520
<v Speaker 1>had the ability to inform the globe at once and

3161
02:44:00.559 --> 02:44:03.520
<v Speaker 1>then to have to now go through a learning process,

3162
02:44:03.559 --> 02:44:06.680
<v Speaker 1>which we all know from our military experiences. When you

3163
02:44:07.079 --> 02:44:10.520
<v Speaker 1>hear that first report. We know that first reports are

3164
02:44:10.600 --> 02:44:14.399
<v Speaker 1>always wrong. We know that, but we had to learn

3165
02:44:14.399 --> 02:44:19.360
<v Speaker 1>that over decades of experience in decision making. And something

3166
02:44:19.399 --> 02:44:21.879
<v Speaker 1>that I tell you private companies these days that I

3167
02:44:21.920 --> 02:44:25.280
<v Speaker 1>get to work with with Solutions twenty one is because

3168
02:44:25.319 --> 02:44:29.760
<v Speaker 1>in the military we're constantly rotating into leadership positions. We're

3169
02:44:29.840 --> 02:44:34.319
<v Speaker 1>constantly learning those lessons over and over and over again

3170
02:44:34.360 --> 02:44:37.840
<v Speaker 1>at higher levels, and we become more comfortable with that's

3171
02:44:37.840 --> 02:44:38.520
<v Speaker 1>a first report.

3172
02:44:38.639 --> 02:44:39.680
<v Speaker 3>Let's let it develop.

3173
02:44:40.360 --> 02:44:43.239
<v Speaker 1>And so I think the distinction that I find between

3174
02:44:43.639 --> 02:44:46.239
<v Speaker 1>what I would like myself to do better job at

3175
02:44:46.280 --> 02:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and what I see as an example of what I

3176
02:44:48.319 --> 02:44:50.680
<v Speaker 1>don't want to do is I think we as a

3177
02:44:50.719 --> 02:44:52.479
<v Speaker 1>society can just go Okay.

3178
02:44:52.159 --> 02:44:55.879
<v Speaker 3>First report, could be bad, could be good.

3179
02:44:55.959 --> 02:45:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Let's let it develop with all sources of information enlightening

3180
02:45:01.120 --> 02:45:03.600
<v Speaker 1>us of what they believe the truth is, and then

3181
02:45:03.719 --> 02:45:05.920
<v Speaker 1>we will figure out the truth that we need to

3182
02:45:05.959 --> 02:45:08.360
<v Speaker 1>move forward. I don't know if that sounds too mystic

3183
02:45:08.639 --> 02:45:13.120
<v Speaker 1>or you know, squishy, no, no, no no, but I

3184
02:45:13.159 --> 02:45:16.120
<v Speaker 1>think we have to make that decision. And so it's

3185
02:45:16.200 --> 02:45:19.079
<v Speaker 1>there's no longer a truth. There is a way that

3186
02:45:19.120 --> 02:45:21.559
<v Speaker 1>we can incorporate information to achieve our ends.

3187
02:45:21.879 --> 02:45:25.239
<v Speaker 2>So take us through the last the SOCOM assignment and

3188
02:45:25.319 --> 02:45:26.200
<v Speaker 2>into your retirement.

3189
02:45:27.399 --> 02:45:32.000
<v Speaker 1>So we we knew that, you know, the window was

3190
02:45:32.040 --> 02:45:35.680
<v Speaker 1>going to open. So my last year with able Squadron

3191
02:45:35.959 --> 02:45:38.319
<v Speaker 1>was you know, within COVID, and I spent a lot

3192
02:45:38.319 --> 02:45:40.760
<v Speaker 1>of my time at Tradeock headquarters actually, which in and

3193
02:45:40.799 --> 02:45:44.000
<v Speaker 1>of itself is an interesting story because I don't know

3194
02:45:44.040 --> 02:45:45.680
<v Speaker 1>if you know this, but we were having trouble getting

3195
02:45:45.719 --> 02:45:49.559
<v Speaker 1>basic recruits to go to basic training, and so like

3196
02:45:49.600 --> 02:45:52.520
<v Speaker 1>I was down at this, you know, at Tradeock advising

3197
02:45:52.559 --> 02:45:54.719
<v Speaker 1>a four star general, Sir, I don't think we should

3198
02:45:54.760 --> 02:45:58.319
<v Speaker 1>get haircuts at basic training anymore, and at least until

3199
02:45:58.319 --> 02:46:00.719
<v Speaker 1>we can figure out how to deal with what we're

3200
02:46:00.719 --> 02:46:01.200
<v Speaker 1>dealing with.

3201
02:46:01.559 --> 02:46:02.479
<v Speaker 3>The Marine Corps got.

3202
02:46:02.360 --> 02:46:06.399
<v Speaker 1>Shut down for their basic training, and so I did

3203
02:46:06.399 --> 02:46:10.600
<v Speaker 1>that at the conclusion, which was an education in a

3204
02:46:10.600 --> 02:46:12.319
<v Speaker 1>lot of ways, because then I spent about three months

3205
02:46:12.319 --> 02:46:16.319
<v Speaker 1>in the Pentagon, and I really knew I didn't want

3206
02:46:16.360 --> 02:46:20.360
<v Speaker 1>to go into the Pentagon after that, mainly because I

3207
02:46:20.479 --> 02:46:25.360
<v Speaker 1>just wasn't happy, Like I appreciated the work great Americans

3208
02:46:25.399 --> 02:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>and really important experiences that I know that I probably

3209
02:46:28.719 --> 02:46:29.879
<v Speaker 1>should have had if I was going to be a

3210
02:46:29.879 --> 02:46:31.559
<v Speaker 1>senior officer inside the military.

3211
02:46:31.879 --> 02:46:33.040
<v Speaker 3>I just wasn't happy there.

3212
02:46:33.200 --> 02:46:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's where I need and I wasn't happy

3213
02:46:36.159 --> 02:46:38.200
<v Speaker 1>there when nobody was really there. So I don't think

3214
02:46:38.200 --> 02:46:40.360
<v Speaker 1>it was going to be better when people were telling

3215
02:46:40.360 --> 02:46:44.079
<v Speaker 1>me what to do there. And so I decided that,

3216
02:46:44.319 --> 02:46:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, this next move could be our last because

3217
02:46:47.879 --> 02:46:49.959
<v Speaker 1>if I don't get that one good piece of paper

3218
02:46:50.000 --> 02:46:51.959
<v Speaker 1>in this next assignment, which I mean you're at the

3219
02:46:52.079 --> 02:46:55.920
<v Speaker 1>level you know, five to six transition where you know

3220
02:46:57.040 --> 02:46:58.799
<v Speaker 1>the paperwork, you know, you.

3221
02:46:58.760 --> 02:46:59.879
<v Speaker 3>Can stay there for a long time.

3222
02:47:00.000 --> 02:47:02.479
<v Speaker 1>If you don't get that one paperwork that moves you

3223
02:47:02.520 --> 02:47:05.319
<v Speaker 1>to the next level for the next job, then just

3224
02:47:05.360 --> 02:47:08.200
<v Speaker 1>don't move on. And so we knew that just by

3225
02:47:08.399 --> 02:47:11.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, the top gets tighter as you move up

3226
02:47:11.159 --> 02:47:13.719
<v Speaker 1>this this could be our last, you know, our last move,

3227
02:47:13.799 --> 02:47:16.200
<v Speaker 1>or at least our last command. And so if it

3228
02:47:16.239 --> 02:47:18.520
<v Speaker 1>was going to be our last command, it was probably

3229
02:47:18.559 --> 02:47:21.559
<v Speaker 1>going to be my last assignment, and so we wanted

3230
02:47:21.559 --> 02:47:23.920
<v Speaker 1>to move to a place that you know, one I

3231
02:47:23.959 --> 02:47:26.639
<v Speaker 1>was excited by the work, you know, I was, I

3232
02:47:26.959 --> 02:47:29.239
<v Speaker 1>got my blood boiling, you know, to go into work

3233
02:47:29.280 --> 02:47:31.280
<v Speaker 1>every day to work on something that I thought was important,

3234
02:47:32.280 --> 02:47:34.600
<v Speaker 1>but also to put my family in a position where

3235
02:47:34.680 --> 02:47:38.000
<v Speaker 1>I could have some stability for you know, one of

3236
02:47:38.040 --> 02:47:40.360
<v Speaker 1>my daughters right here, who was, you know, a sophomore

3237
02:47:40.360 --> 02:47:42.000
<v Speaker 1>in high school who I only get to ruin her

3238
02:47:42.040 --> 02:47:45.680
<v Speaker 1>life once. Patiently, right, you can't say I ruined your

3239
02:47:45.680 --> 02:47:50.319
<v Speaker 1>life twice. I can only ruin your life once. I

3240
02:47:50.360 --> 02:47:53.360
<v Speaker 1>wanted stability for her, and I wanted stability for her

3241
02:47:53.399 --> 02:47:56.520
<v Speaker 1>younger sister, you know, in those formative years. And we

3242
02:47:56.559 --> 02:48:00.600
<v Speaker 1>also realized that we just I hadn't seen my girls

3243
02:48:00.760 --> 02:48:02.920
<v Speaker 1>as much as I wanted to. I'd been gone a lot,

3244
02:48:02.959 --> 02:48:06.680
<v Speaker 1>particularly you know this one. And I told you guys beforehand,

3245
02:48:06.680 --> 02:48:08.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we talk enough about the trauma that

3246
02:48:09.360 --> 02:48:12.760
<v Speaker 1>occurs to our you know, our brats or our military children.

3247
02:48:13.559 --> 02:48:15.280
<v Speaker 1>I think they go through a lot of post traumatic

3248
02:48:15.280 --> 02:48:18.479
<v Speaker 1>stress just like we do, and and they and they

3249
02:48:18.520 --> 02:48:21.440
<v Speaker 1>need just as much attention, I think as our service members,

3250
02:48:21.479 --> 02:48:23.159
<v Speaker 1>and we don't give it yet, but I think we're

3251
02:48:23.200 --> 02:48:26.840
<v Speaker 1>getting there. And so I wanted to focus on my

3252
02:48:26.920 --> 02:48:29.159
<v Speaker 1>family if that was going to happen, And so we

3253
02:48:29.200 --> 02:48:32.159
<v Speaker 1>went to SOCOM because I was just blood boiling. I'd

3254
02:48:32.159 --> 02:48:34.360
<v Speaker 1>love to go back to you know, something like that

3255
02:48:34.440 --> 02:48:37.600
<v Speaker 1>and touch that again and stay in it. Love Tampa,

3256
02:48:38.000 --> 02:48:40.719
<v Speaker 1>So we moved there. I was fortunate enough to get

3257
02:48:40.760 --> 02:48:44.239
<v Speaker 1>a job inside of Silcam Headquarters. General Clark was the commander,

3258
02:48:44.319 --> 02:48:46.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, General Evans came in while I was after it,

3259
02:48:46.200 --> 02:48:48.719
<v Speaker 1>so it kind of felt like, you know, the right

3260
02:48:48.840 --> 02:48:53.120
<v Speaker 1>culmination of my career, you know, there and they you know,

3261
02:48:53.319 --> 02:48:55.479
<v Speaker 1>within the first week of being there in that job,

3262
02:48:55.840 --> 02:48:59.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, President Biden withdrew from Afghanistan, and with that

3263
02:49:00.079 --> 02:49:02.719
<v Speaker 1>withdrew a lot of the ways that we had been

3264
02:49:02.799 --> 02:49:05.840
<v Speaker 1>confronting the global war and terror you know, traditionally speaking,

3265
02:49:05.879 --> 02:49:09.520
<v Speaker 1>because now it's been twenty twenty five years, and that

3266
02:49:10.000 --> 02:49:12.600
<v Speaker 1>resulted in US you know, having to find new ways

3267
02:49:12.959 --> 02:49:16.239
<v Speaker 1>to confront those threats and new ways and quite frankly,

3268
02:49:16.280 --> 02:49:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I think in some ways good you know, we did

3269
02:49:18.159 --> 02:49:21.719
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of you know, inventiveness and creativity and

3270
02:49:22.079 --> 02:49:24.479
<v Speaker 1>lots of you know, collaboration between all of your inner

3271
02:49:24.479 --> 02:49:27.479
<v Speaker 1>agencies and the military, and it was a very humbling

3272
02:49:27.520 --> 02:49:30.639
<v Speaker 1>experience again to watch you know, this team come together

3273
02:49:30.680 --> 02:49:33.200
<v Speaker 1>over the course of the year and solve a really

3274
02:49:33.280 --> 02:49:36.159
<v Speaker 1>hard national problem. You know, for whatever, you know, whatever

3275
02:49:36.200 --> 02:49:39.639
<v Speaker 1>you think about it. And it was about that time

3276
02:49:39.920 --> 02:49:45.479
<v Speaker 1>that I realized that I wanted to go chase my

3277
02:49:45.559 --> 02:49:50.440
<v Speaker 1>own shiny objects. I've been chasing other people's dreams. And

3278
02:49:50.479 --> 02:49:54.239
<v Speaker 1>while I believe I, I, you know, could be a

3279
02:49:54.280 --> 02:49:56.959
<v Speaker 1>good brigade commander. I could be a good group commander,

3280
02:49:57.159 --> 02:49:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I could do those things, well there's fifty other people

3281
02:50:00.200 --> 02:50:02.959
<v Speaker 1>you could do that better than me, and and maybe

3282
02:50:02.959 --> 02:50:05.559
<v Speaker 1>that's not where my talent lies, you know. And so

3283
02:50:05.719 --> 02:50:09.600
<v Speaker 1>I decided that I, while I probably had a future there,

3284
02:50:10.399 --> 02:50:13.559
<v Speaker 1>did I care enough to go to that next level?

3285
02:50:13.600 --> 02:50:16.280
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think I did. And so I did

3286
02:50:16.280 --> 02:50:18.120
<v Speaker 1>what I thought was right for the service and for

3287
02:50:18.200 --> 02:50:21.000
<v Speaker 1>my family, which was I don't care enough to go

3288
02:50:21.079 --> 02:50:21.719
<v Speaker 1>to that level.

3289
02:50:21.799 --> 02:50:23.479
<v Speaker 3>It's probably time for me to leave.

3290
02:50:24.520 --> 02:50:26.760
<v Speaker 1>And so I started to retire, and I started to

3291
02:50:27.000 --> 02:50:30.120
<v Speaker 1>think about what does it look like to exit? And

3292
02:50:30.120 --> 02:50:32.280
<v Speaker 1>then you start doing what everybody does, you know, What

3293
02:50:32.319 --> 02:50:33.639
<v Speaker 1>do I want to be when I grow up? Right?

3294
02:50:34.079 --> 02:50:36.520
<v Speaker 1>You know? And and well, all I've ever wanted to

3295
02:50:36.559 --> 02:50:38.840
<v Speaker 1>do is jump out of planes and blow stuff up

3296
02:50:38.879 --> 02:50:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and hang out with guys, and you know, and so

3297
02:50:41.440 --> 02:50:43.719
<v Speaker 1>what does that mean? And so I started looking for

3298
02:50:43.879 --> 02:50:46.719
<v Speaker 1>what purpose? I started looking for what was what was

3299
02:50:46.760 --> 02:50:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the thing that I loved the most about my career,

3300
02:50:50.040 --> 02:50:54.399
<v Speaker 1>and so kind of to rewind, I loved teaching, and

3301
02:50:54.440 --> 02:50:57.200
<v Speaker 1>I loved coaching, and I loved mentoring, and I loved

3302
02:50:57.399 --> 02:51:01.239
<v Speaker 1>taking every lesson that I'd learned and giving it to

3303
02:51:01.280 --> 02:51:03.520
<v Speaker 1>someone so they don't have to learn those things. They

3304
02:51:03.520 --> 02:51:07.200
<v Speaker 1>can just catapult beyond me. I loved finding the talent

3305
02:51:07.719 --> 02:51:10.879
<v Speaker 1>that was capable of doing that far beyond my capabilities.

3306
02:51:10.920 --> 02:51:12.399
<v Speaker 1>You know, the guys who I know that if I

3307
02:51:12.440 --> 02:51:14.719
<v Speaker 1>can just give you thirty minutes of this, you'll take

3308
02:51:14.760 --> 02:51:17.440
<v Speaker 1>it to another level that I never could. And so

3309
02:51:17.719 --> 02:51:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I started looking at, you know, consulting, but it wasn't

3310
02:51:21.719 --> 02:51:24.360
<v Speaker 1>working for me. So like the McKenzie's and you know

3311
02:51:24.360 --> 02:51:26.040
<v Speaker 1>where I was going to go in to write a

3312
02:51:26.079 --> 02:51:28.040
<v Speaker 1>three hundred page book report. I didn't want to be

3313
02:51:28.200 --> 02:51:31.399
<v Speaker 1>sad Sam who went in there and wrote a story

3314
02:51:31.440 --> 02:51:33.440
<v Speaker 1>about what the things we needed to change and then

3315
02:51:33.479 --> 02:51:35.479
<v Speaker 1>the boss goes, hey, thanks for doing that and shoves

3316
02:51:35.520 --> 02:51:38.159
<v Speaker 1>it in desk. I wanted to get dirty and to

3317
02:51:38.280 --> 02:51:41.639
<v Speaker 1>fix things, and and so I started saying I want

3318
02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:44.799
<v Speaker 1>to build companies. And people would say, well, what kind

3319
02:51:44.799 --> 02:51:46.239
<v Speaker 1>of companies? And I would go, I don't care what

3320
02:51:46.319 --> 02:51:49.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of company do you have. I want to build leaders, right,

3321
02:51:50.120 --> 02:51:53.159
<v Speaker 1>I want to build a leader who is building a

3322
02:51:53.200 --> 02:51:57.200
<v Speaker 1>really important company to solve really hard problems. And I

3323
02:51:57.239 --> 02:52:00.760
<v Speaker 1>was fortunate enough to be connected through an AWG former

3324
02:52:00.799 --> 02:52:05.239
<v Speaker 1>operator who was working for a small consulting firm called

3325
02:52:05.280 --> 02:52:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Solutions twenty one, and so I was introduced to the

3326
02:52:08.040 --> 02:52:11.799
<v Speaker 1>Solutions twenty one team. They are a leadership development team

3327
02:52:11.959 --> 02:52:15.040
<v Speaker 1>and they focus purely on that kind of We come

3328
02:52:15.079 --> 02:52:17.840
<v Speaker 1>in and we build elite leaders, and then we teach

3329
02:52:17.920 --> 02:52:21.920
<v Speaker 1>alignment to the organization so that as they are growing

3330
02:52:22.000 --> 02:52:27.600
<v Speaker 1>that vision, the organization's resources are aligned to achieve that vision,

3331
02:52:27.600 --> 02:52:30.479
<v Speaker 1>and the execution is then feedback looping into that vision

3332
02:52:30.520 --> 02:52:33.079
<v Speaker 1>so that they're adjusting to meet the competitive market that

3333
02:52:33.120 --> 02:52:36.879
<v Speaker 1>they're in. It sounds like building a task force, you know.

3334
02:52:36.879 --> 02:52:40.319
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like training a team for a specialized mission.

3335
02:52:40.680 --> 02:52:43.200
<v Speaker 1>And I just fell in love with these guys, and

3336
02:52:43.239 --> 02:52:46.280
<v Speaker 1>so I started going into these companies and learning from

3337
02:52:46.319 --> 02:52:50.760
<v Speaker 1>these amazing CEOs and presidents, and yes, I was getting

3338
02:52:50.879 --> 02:52:53.680
<v Speaker 1>satisfaction for, you know, being able to teach, coach, and

3339
02:52:53.760 --> 02:52:56.920
<v Speaker 1>mentor and use the things that I had learned in

3340
02:52:56.920 --> 02:52:59.760
<v Speaker 1>my career. And I believe Solutions twenty one does it

3341
02:52:59.840 --> 02:53:02.120
<v Speaker 1>better than anyone, which is why I still love working

3342
02:53:02.159 --> 02:53:06.319
<v Speaker 1>with them. Uh And Solutions twenty one has this amazing

3343
02:53:06.399 --> 02:53:11.200
<v Speaker 1>culture where we encourage you to pursue your passions for

3344
02:53:11.280 --> 02:53:13.600
<v Speaker 1>your community, whatever that might mean. You know, if you

3345
02:53:13.719 --> 02:53:17.799
<v Speaker 1>really food drives or you know, hurricane recoveries or you

3346
02:53:17.840 --> 02:53:20.840
<v Speaker 1>know whatever that whatever it is that gets you back

3347
02:53:20.879 --> 02:53:24.360
<v Speaker 1>into your community in order to support your local community,

3348
02:53:24.399 --> 02:53:27.520
<v Speaker 1>we really want you to do that. And I suddenly

3349
02:53:27.520 --> 02:53:30.399
<v Speaker 1>realized that I don't have a local community. I don't

3350
02:53:30.399 --> 02:53:33.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a hometown. I don't have a place

3351
02:53:33.799 --> 02:53:36.200
<v Speaker 1>that I can you know, go to church and that's

3352
02:53:36.239 --> 02:53:38.280
<v Speaker 1>my bar and this is my you know, I don't

3353
02:53:38.319 --> 02:53:41.440
<v Speaker 1>have that right, And so I started looking for what

3354
02:53:41.559 --> 02:53:42.479
<v Speaker 1>is my community?

3355
02:53:43.600 --> 02:53:45.559
<v Speaker 3>It's us right, this is my community.

3356
02:53:45.600 --> 02:53:47.479
<v Speaker 1>This is the people that I so, Okay, well, what's

3357
02:53:47.520 --> 02:53:50.959
<v Speaker 1>the problem that we're dealing with. And right about that

3358
02:53:51.079 --> 02:53:53.840
<v Speaker 1>time is when I started to you know, hear about

3359
02:53:53.840 --> 02:53:56.879
<v Speaker 1>the Pack dect and and and if you guys haven't

3360
02:53:56.920 --> 02:54:00.280
<v Speaker 1>read the Pack Deck yet, you know really Rosy and

3361
02:54:00.360 --> 02:54:03.399
<v Speaker 1>Leroy Torres, you know from burn Pit three sixty if

3362
02:54:03.440 --> 02:54:07.959
<v Speaker 1>you've ever heard of that organization, they lobbied for what

3363
02:54:08.040 --> 02:54:10.879
<v Speaker 1>we all dealt with for the last twenty five years,

3364
02:54:10.879 --> 02:54:13.319
<v Speaker 1>which is how do you deal with trash in a

3365
02:54:13.360 --> 02:54:16.360
<v Speaker 1>combat zone? You know, persistent and consistent for the last

3366
02:54:16.399 --> 02:54:18.959
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years, we have trash and it's everything from

3367
02:54:19.040 --> 02:54:23.040
<v Speaker 1>JP eight you know, jet fuel, to human hair to

3368
02:54:23.399 --> 02:54:25.799
<v Speaker 1>animals and whatever it is and needs to go on

3369
02:54:25.799 --> 02:54:26.239
<v Speaker 1>the pile.

3370
02:54:26.399 --> 02:54:28.479
<v Speaker 3>YEA, most of us have turned to stick at.

3371
02:54:28.319 --> 02:54:30.799
<v Speaker 1>Some point in a you know, in a I don't

3372
02:54:30.799 --> 02:54:33.120
<v Speaker 1>know what they call now, the outhouses with the burn drums,

3373
02:54:33.479 --> 02:54:35.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a lot of that plastic mri.

3374
02:54:36.239 --> 02:54:38.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, every everything.

3375
02:54:37.799 --> 02:54:41.079
<v Speaker 1>You every one of us has been in a built

3376
02:54:41.200 --> 02:54:43.559
<v Speaker 1>up outhouse, you know, four by four wood on the

3377
02:54:43.600 --> 02:54:47.479
<v Speaker 1>outside with a half you know oil drum with JP

3378
02:54:47.600 --> 02:54:51.200
<v Speaker 1>eight and it burning it off literally, you know, burning

3379
02:54:51.319 --> 02:54:53.239
<v Speaker 1>human waste with with with oil.

3380
02:54:54.040 --> 02:54:54.159
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

3381
02:54:54.799 --> 02:54:57.680
<v Speaker 1>And we sucked that in right over and over and

3382
02:54:57.719 --> 02:54:59.719
<v Speaker 1>over again. And the way I typically explain this to

3383
02:54:59.760 --> 02:55:04.040
<v Speaker 1>people is we went on a drive in this country

3384
02:55:04.120 --> 02:55:08.040
<v Speaker 1>to remove smoking. So literally smoking a cigarette, you know

3385
02:55:08.159 --> 02:55:11.200
<v Speaker 1>packa day, turns into cancer. We get it, right, Okay,

3386
02:55:11.239 --> 02:55:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Now stand over one hundred by hundred burn pit and

3387
02:55:13.600 --> 02:55:16.280
<v Speaker 1>suck it in for fifteen months. You know, it's not

3388
02:55:16.360 --> 02:55:20.200
<v Speaker 1>surprising that we're seeing these strange cancers and injuries in

3389
02:55:20.239 --> 02:55:24.239
<v Speaker 1>these pockets of teams. And when you're talking about special operators,

3390
02:55:24.719 --> 02:55:28.440
<v Speaker 1>I have a different problem. And so now burn Pit

3391
02:55:28.520 --> 02:55:32.120
<v Speaker 1>three sixty starts lobbying on behalf of our service members.

3392
02:55:32.120 --> 02:55:35.200
<v Speaker 1>And in November of twenty twenty two, the Packed Act

3393
02:55:35.239 --> 02:55:37.920
<v Speaker 1>is signed by the Biden administration. Phenomenal job by the

3394
02:55:37.920 --> 02:55:42.120
<v Speaker 1>Biden administration, we will add, and that Packed Act. I

3395
02:55:42.319 --> 02:55:46.120
<v Speaker 1>was skeptical because I was like, I don't understand how

3396
02:55:46.159 --> 02:55:49.879
<v Speaker 1>we're connecting. You know, bo Biden's brain cancer. I mean

3397
02:55:50.120 --> 02:55:52.879
<v Speaker 1>to burn Pits, don't. I don't get it. And it

3398
02:55:52.959 --> 02:55:55.559
<v Speaker 1>wasn't until I read the Packed Act in two hundred

3399
02:55:55.559 --> 02:55:59.079
<v Speaker 1>and eighty three billion dollars over five years for respiratory

3400
02:55:59.120 --> 02:56:03.120
<v Speaker 1>related illness and injuries that I started to recognize my

3401
02:56:03.440 --> 02:56:08.440
<v Speaker 1>own danger, my own threats, and I started reaching out

3402
02:56:08.520 --> 02:56:10.799
<v Speaker 1>to buddies that I've been you know, I've known for

3403
02:56:10.840 --> 02:56:13.879
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirty years, and I feel like I'm the only

3404
02:56:13.920 --> 02:56:17.719
<v Speaker 1>one that hasn't had cancer yet, right, And I mean honestly, Meg,

3405
02:56:17.799 --> 02:56:21.040
<v Speaker 1>my wife and I we spend we kind of darkly

3406
02:56:21.159 --> 02:56:23.000
<v Speaker 1>laugh about we're just kind of waiting for the shoe

3407
02:56:23.040 --> 02:56:25.760
<v Speaker 1>to drop, right, like we've been in all those places,

3408
02:56:25.760 --> 02:56:28.280
<v Speaker 1>We've done all those same things, and harder men than

3409
02:56:28.319 --> 02:56:30.799
<v Speaker 1>me are going down for really tough stuff.

3410
02:56:30.920 --> 02:56:34.600
<v Speaker 2>One of my former teammates, guy I worked with, we

3411
02:56:34.680 --> 02:56:37.280
<v Speaker 2>got back in touch after fifteen years and had him

3412
02:56:37.319 --> 02:56:39.959
<v Speaker 2>on the show. Yeah, and I told him afterwards. I

3413
02:56:40.000 --> 02:56:42.559
<v Speaker 2>was like, man, don't wait another fifteen years, because those

3414
02:56:42.600 --> 02:56:43.280
<v Speaker 2>burn bits are.

3415
02:56:43.239 --> 02:56:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Going to get one of us. Well, yeah, go get tested, yea,

3416
02:56:46.440 --> 02:56:48.040
<v Speaker 1>even before the burn pits.

3417
02:56:48.040 --> 02:56:50.040
<v Speaker 4>I mean, if you think about like all the range

3418
02:56:50.079 --> 02:56:51.639
<v Speaker 4>time we spent and then what do you do You

3419
02:56:51.680 --> 02:56:55.000
<v Speaker 4>go collect up brass and put it in your hat, right,

3420
02:56:55.440 --> 02:56:58.360
<v Speaker 4>and all the shoe houses with all the like the

3421
02:56:58.520 --> 02:57:04.159
<v Speaker 4>lead dust like like, so there's so much that that

3422
02:57:04.200 --> 02:57:08.440
<v Speaker 4>we were exposed to on a constant basis. You know,

3423
02:57:08.520 --> 02:57:12.079
<v Speaker 4>we talk about TBIs or blast related illnesses that they're

3424
02:57:12.280 --> 02:57:15.120
<v Speaker 4>just now And how many times were you on the

3425
02:57:15.200 --> 02:57:18.000
<v Speaker 4>range when you had to do a spendex with gustas

3426
02:57:18.319 --> 02:57:20.239
<v Speaker 4>and after like three or four rounds you're like, like,

3427
02:57:20.280 --> 02:57:21.959
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to do this anymore.

3428
02:57:21.600 --> 02:57:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, because your head's banging. One sixtieth pilots one sixtieth gunners.

3429
02:57:26.760 --> 02:57:29.559
<v Speaker 1>Those guys sucking off the mini gun and they walk

3430
02:57:29.600 --> 02:57:32.959
<v Speaker 1>out of those colfaxes with you know, just booming headaches,

3431
02:57:33.040 --> 02:57:35.760
<v Speaker 1>and they wonder why. Okay, So I started to have

3432
02:57:35.840 --> 02:57:38.479
<v Speaker 1>those same encounters, right, and I started to put the

3433
02:57:38.479 --> 02:57:42.600
<v Speaker 1>pieces together, and I started looking at, you know, the data,

3434
02:57:43.239 --> 02:57:46.639
<v Speaker 1>and what I realized is, we have this M fifty

3435
02:57:46.719 --> 02:57:49.319
<v Speaker 1>gas mask that we've been carrying around in our pocket

3436
02:57:49.360 --> 02:57:53.200
<v Speaker 1>for twenty five years. I've worn it legitimately once, you know,

3437
02:57:53.280 --> 02:57:55.200
<v Speaker 1>in Iraq when we when we had scuds on the

3438
02:57:55.239 --> 02:57:57.799
<v Speaker 1>invasion coming and we thought all of them had chemical rights, right,

3439
02:57:58.159 --> 02:58:01.079
<v Speaker 1>and so I legitimately wore my full MOP gear, you know.

3440
02:58:01.319 --> 02:58:03.159
<v Speaker 1>And for those of you who don't understand the MOP system,

3441
02:58:03.200 --> 02:58:05.840
<v Speaker 1>so you know MOP zero to four four being nuclear

3442
02:58:05.879 --> 02:58:09.360
<v Speaker 1>biological chemical imminency, right, And so we were in this

3443
02:58:09.639 --> 02:58:13.200
<v Speaker 1>gear fighting for three months. And then I look back

3444
02:58:13.239 --> 02:58:15.760
<v Speaker 1>at the rest of my career and I wonder, when

3445
02:58:15.840 --> 02:58:18.360
<v Speaker 1>was the last time that we had a service member

3446
02:58:18.520 --> 02:58:22.760
<v Speaker 1>die of a nuclear, biological or chemical attack? And the

3447
02:58:22.799 --> 02:58:26.840
<v Speaker 1>answers world War one, World War two, maybe, And so

3448
02:58:26.920 --> 02:58:28.760
<v Speaker 1>then it's well, wait a minute, when I look at

3449
02:58:28.760 --> 02:58:33.280
<v Speaker 1>the PACDAC data, what it tells me is in the

3450
02:58:33.319 --> 02:58:35.680
<v Speaker 1>civil I love telling this story, so please forgive me

3451
02:58:35.879 --> 02:58:38.159
<v Speaker 1>in this in the Civil War in the eighteen sixties,

3452
02:58:38.239 --> 02:58:41.680
<v Speaker 1>we decided we should probably start wearing helmets, right, and

3453
02:58:41.719 --> 02:58:44.079
<v Speaker 1>we got those issued around World War One, And so

3454
02:58:44.200 --> 02:58:47.639
<v Speaker 1>in World War One we started wearing helmets, and then

3455
02:58:47.639 --> 02:58:50.319
<v Speaker 1>we realized we should probably have hearing protection, and we

3456
02:58:50.360 --> 02:58:53.719
<v Speaker 1>started getting that out in like Vietnam Korea area. And

3457
02:58:53.760 --> 02:58:56.399
<v Speaker 1>then we decided in you know, probably the eighties and nineties,

3458
02:58:56.399 --> 02:58:59.520
<v Speaker 1>we should start wearing eye protection for our eyes, and

3459
02:58:59.559 --> 02:59:03.079
<v Speaker 1>we re got that issued inside of the Global Warrant Terror.

3460
02:59:03.079 --> 02:59:05.000
<v Speaker 3>It's why I wanted to go to a special operations unit.

3461
02:59:05.040 --> 02:59:06.719
<v Speaker 1>I get the cool Oakley m frames and I get

3462
02:59:06.719 --> 02:59:09.600
<v Speaker 1>to have my hands in my pockets, right, And we

3463
02:59:09.719 --> 02:59:13.600
<v Speaker 1>missed the fact that the last piece of real estate,

3464
02:59:13.680 --> 02:59:16.680
<v Speaker 1>potentially the most important, is the nose in the mouth.

3465
02:59:17.120 --> 02:59:22.600
<v Speaker 1>And we're sucking in lead and antimony and aluminum and

3466
02:59:22.680 --> 02:59:25.440
<v Speaker 1>all of the things that we know to be carcinogenic, right,

3467
02:59:25.440 --> 02:59:28.079
<v Speaker 1>and that we know we are going into shoot houses

3468
02:59:28.159 --> 02:59:30.520
<v Speaker 1>day in and day out without lung protection. And so

3469
02:59:30.920 --> 02:59:34.600
<v Speaker 1>I know this sucks. Like I'm the guy who's like,

3470
02:59:34.639 --> 02:59:36.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't want more body armor. I don't want more

3471
02:59:36.959 --> 02:59:39.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, I need to be lethal. But now, as

3472
02:59:39.879 --> 02:59:42.520
<v Speaker 1>looking back on it, I go, I don't just want

3473
02:59:42.559 --> 02:59:47.040
<v Speaker 1>you lethal, I want you long, I want longevity. I

3474
02:59:47.079 --> 02:59:50.079
<v Speaker 1>cannot afford to have a guy trained for twenty years

3475
02:59:50.120 --> 02:59:51.879
<v Speaker 1>and then to go down for something like this that

3476
02:59:52.000 --> 02:59:56.239
<v Speaker 1>is preventable. So we then went and found a company

3477
02:59:56.520 --> 02:59:59.680
<v Speaker 1>that was working on this innovative platform and it's called

3478
02:59:59.760 --> 03:00:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Vent Respiratory Technologies, and on behalf of Solutions twenty one.

3479
03:00:04.360 --> 03:00:07.600
<v Speaker 1>We've been working with that startup where Who's the CTO

3480
03:00:07.799 --> 03:00:10.280
<v Speaker 1>is one of the key designers of the M fifty

3481
03:00:10.360 --> 03:00:16.760
<v Speaker 1>gas mask of a low burden, low cost particulate respirator

3482
03:00:17.479 --> 03:00:21.079
<v Speaker 1>for the operator, by the operator that protects you from

3483
03:00:21.079 --> 03:00:24.120
<v Speaker 1>all those hazardous particulates that you suck in day in

3484
03:00:24.159 --> 03:00:28.239
<v Speaker 1>and day out, and then you go. And we now

3485
03:00:28.280 --> 03:00:31.719
<v Speaker 1>connect that with the House Armed Service Committee and the

3486
03:00:31.760 --> 03:00:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Senate Armed Service Committee, and we did this last January.

3487
03:00:34.600 --> 03:00:36.760
<v Speaker 1>We were very fortunate to work with some members of

3488
03:00:36.799 --> 03:00:39.360
<v Speaker 1>the House and the Senate in order to get language

3489
03:00:39.399 --> 03:00:43.600
<v Speaker 1>inserted into the National Defense Authorization Act that asks the

3490
03:00:43.719 --> 03:00:48.399
<v Speaker 1>DoD to conduct a study and determine do we have

3491
03:00:48.559 --> 03:00:52.319
<v Speaker 1>the right respiratory protection for our service members in accordance

3492
03:00:52.360 --> 03:00:55.360
<v Speaker 1>with what we think we know from the PACKED Act.

3493
03:00:55.639 --> 03:00:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Rather than spending two hundred and eighty three billion dollars

3494
03:00:58.760 --> 03:01:02.680
<v Speaker 1>over five years and injury and illness. Can we provide

3495
03:01:02.760 --> 03:01:07.079
<v Speaker 1>a three hundred dollars tactical respirator in everybody's pocket as

3496
03:01:07.159 --> 03:01:07.840
<v Speaker 1>preventive mating?

3497
03:01:07.920 --> 03:01:09.840
<v Speaker 3>You want to show us this thing? Yeah, I do

3498
03:01:09.920 --> 03:01:11.799
<v Speaker 3>want to show it to you, and you.

3499
03:01:11.760 --> 03:01:14.000
<v Speaker 4>Know, and asking you since you know what it's like

3500
03:01:14.280 --> 03:01:15.600
<v Speaker 4>to be.

3501
03:01:15.760 --> 03:01:16.719
<v Speaker 3>On the objective.

3502
03:01:17.959 --> 03:01:22.559
<v Speaker 4>One of the challenges with a gas mask is your

3503
03:01:22.600 --> 03:01:25.879
<v Speaker 4>ability to breathe, right, your ability to breathe because you

3504
03:01:25.920 --> 03:01:30.040
<v Speaker 4>are moving at a very high you know output, that's right,

3505
03:01:30.120 --> 03:01:33.920
<v Speaker 4>and so like when when they were building this, were

3506
03:01:33.920 --> 03:01:35.360
<v Speaker 4>they taking that into consideration.

3507
03:01:35.520 --> 03:01:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely, so this.

3508
03:01:37.479 --> 03:01:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Was designed in order to not impede the way we shoot,

3509
03:01:41.079 --> 03:01:45.040
<v Speaker 1>move and communicate. And so it is literally a quarter mask,

3510
03:01:45.120 --> 03:01:47.840
<v Speaker 1>which is why it's not you know, absolutely, so it's

3511
03:01:47.840 --> 03:01:52.719
<v Speaker 1>literally a quarter mask, and it's designed to fit atop

3512
03:01:52.879 --> 03:01:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the chin so that your chin strap properly seats, okay,

3513
03:01:56.399 --> 03:02:00.360
<v Speaker 1>which that that was the first issue, right. The hole

3514
03:02:00.479 --> 03:02:04.799
<v Speaker 1>on the filter is purely for particulate, so it's just

3515
03:02:05.040 --> 03:02:08.559
<v Speaker 1>for the dirt, the dust, the aluminum, the lead, those

3516
03:02:08.600 --> 03:02:11.440
<v Speaker 1>things that are it is not it's not a gas mask.

3517
03:02:11.879 --> 03:02:14.120
<v Speaker 3>Filtering down to the smallest micron or whatever.

3518
03:02:14.239 --> 03:02:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, So when you when you start going after gases

3519
03:02:16.959 --> 03:02:20.040
<v Speaker 1>and vapors, you start needing to get activated charcoal in this.

3520
03:02:20.159 --> 03:02:23.680
<v Speaker 1>When you start getting more material into this filter, it

3521
03:02:23.799 --> 03:02:27.360
<v Speaker 1>starts becoming more of a burden to breathe right, So

3522
03:02:27.920 --> 03:02:32.399
<v Speaker 1>by breathing heavy, we now can't perform optimally. So this

3523
03:02:32.479 --> 03:02:35.000
<v Speaker 1>is the lightest pull on the market. It's the only

3524
03:02:35.159 --> 03:02:39.879
<v Speaker 1>CE certified system out there. That's the European version of

3525
03:02:39.959 --> 03:02:45.360
<v Speaker 1>niosh right, and it's designed so that when you breathe,

3526
03:02:45.799 --> 03:02:48.600
<v Speaker 1>you don't get the whole per hole per because the

3527
03:02:48.680 --> 03:02:52.559
<v Speaker 1>MIC is actually offset from the breathe port and so

3528
03:02:52.680 --> 03:02:56.479
<v Speaker 1>you're breathing over the filter to protect your lungs, but

3529
03:02:56.639 --> 03:02:59.319
<v Speaker 1>your MIC connects directly to the outside and a push

3530
03:02:59.360 --> 03:03:02.399
<v Speaker 1>to talk so that it's not being impacted.

3531
03:03:02.399 --> 03:03:04.120
<v Speaker 3>And so we have some teams.

3532
03:03:03.760 --> 03:03:06.639
<v Speaker 1>That were these for helicopter operations, like you know off

3533
03:03:06.680 --> 03:03:10.760
<v Speaker 1>little bird platforms, because they can get assured comms because

3534
03:03:10.799 --> 03:03:13.399
<v Speaker 1>they can simply talk into it without the wind getting them.

3535
03:03:13.840 --> 03:03:17.000
<v Speaker 1>It's meant to be used when you want it, so

3536
03:03:17.280 --> 03:03:20.239
<v Speaker 1>like a fighter pilot's mask, I put it on when

3537
03:03:20.280 --> 03:03:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm coming off the X and I've got muddust and

3538
03:03:23.399 --> 03:03:25.719
<v Speaker 1>rust going everywhere. And then when I get back into

3539
03:03:25.760 --> 03:03:28.479
<v Speaker 1>a cleaner environment or I need less pull, I take

3540
03:03:28.520 --> 03:03:31.680
<v Speaker 1>it off. I'm on the catwalk. I can wear it

3541
03:03:31.760 --> 03:03:35.239
<v Speaker 1>to protect myself below from the particulates that are coming

3542
03:03:35.239 --> 03:03:38.799
<v Speaker 1>from explosions and nine bangers and lots of ammunition not

3543
03:03:38.840 --> 03:03:42.680
<v Speaker 1>even talking about simmunition yet. All of that is protecting me.

3544
03:03:43.200 --> 03:03:45.559
<v Speaker 1>But I don't want to wear my helmet. Okay, you

3545
03:03:45.559 --> 03:03:49.000
<v Speaker 1>can do that. And so it's designed to be integrated

3546
03:03:49.079 --> 03:03:52.559
<v Speaker 1>with how the soldier or the operator shoots right now,

3547
03:03:52.600 --> 03:03:56.959
<v Speaker 1>so a good chee cheek. The weld is allowable communication.

3548
03:03:57.200 --> 03:04:00.639
<v Speaker 1>It's asshured communications through whatever you know system we're using,

3549
03:04:00.719 --> 03:04:04.360
<v Speaker 1>and it's clear, uh, and then your ability to move

3550
03:04:04.399 --> 03:04:07.760
<v Speaker 1>in it is. It's the lightest burden or pull on

3551
03:04:07.799 --> 03:04:11.319
<v Speaker 1>the market for sure. And the trade off is it's

3552
03:04:11.399 --> 03:04:14.879
<v Speaker 1>not a MOP three and four system. It's meant for

3553
03:04:15.079 --> 03:04:18.680
<v Speaker 1>MOP zero to two, which is where we find ourselves

3554
03:04:18.840 --> 03:04:21.200
<v Speaker 1>at least in my career ninety nine point.

3555
03:04:22.600 --> 03:04:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Nine percent of the time, right I mean, and I.

3556
03:04:26.159 --> 03:04:30.360
<v Speaker 4>Mean even outside of the preventive measures of it. The

3557
03:04:30.399 --> 03:04:35.680
<v Speaker 4>communication ability when like you say, in a helo, when

3558
03:04:35.840 --> 03:04:38.520
<v Speaker 4>nobody can hear what's going on, you know, you know,

3559
03:04:38.959 --> 03:04:41.600
<v Speaker 4>in an open air vehicle run across the desert where

3560
03:04:41.600 --> 03:04:44.479
<v Speaker 4>there's dust flying and he's trying to yell about what's happening.

3561
03:04:44.639 --> 03:04:47.479
<v Speaker 1>It's like it works in a number of environments exactly.

3562
03:04:47.559 --> 03:04:50.079
<v Speaker 1>And we and we have, you know, some some additives

3563
03:04:50.120 --> 03:04:53.959
<v Speaker 1>to this. We were just at SOCOM's Research Development Acquisitions

3564
03:04:54.000 --> 03:04:57.719
<v Speaker 1>experiment this last week and we have a voice projection

3565
03:04:57.879 --> 03:04:59.680
<v Speaker 1>unit that goes onto this It's about an eighth of

3566
03:04:59.719 --> 03:05:03.280
<v Speaker 1>an inche thick, so that when you speak, it'll project

3567
03:05:03.319 --> 03:05:06.120
<v Speaker 1>like a bullhorn, so that you don't have I can't

3568
03:05:06.120 --> 03:05:08.959
<v Speaker 1>communicate with right, I can control a room, I don't

3569
03:05:08.959 --> 03:05:12.200
<v Speaker 1>have muffled. It comes out like a bullhorn. And then

3570
03:05:12.319 --> 03:05:15.239
<v Speaker 1>I can connect it to my atac yes with a

3571
03:05:15.319 --> 03:05:18.360
<v Speaker 1>downloaded language program, and when I speak into the mic

3572
03:05:18.440 --> 03:05:21.360
<v Speaker 1>in English, what comes out the speaker is whatever language

3573
03:05:21.360 --> 03:05:26.079
<v Speaker 1>you've selected, that's incredible, Mandarin, Russian, pick the language and

3574
03:05:26.600 --> 03:05:28.600
<v Speaker 1>you can also there's two ways you can do it

3575
03:05:28.639 --> 03:05:31.639
<v Speaker 1>now on the return and we haven't built this prototype yet,

3576
03:05:31.639 --> 03:05:33.799
<v Speaker 1>but you can either have your silens in which means

3577
03:05:33.840 --> 03:05:37.079
<v Speaker 1>the return gets translated right back into your SILENX your earpiece,

3578
03:05:38.079 --> 03:05:40.559
<v Speaker 1>or there I've seen some heads up displays now some

3579
03:05:40.920 --> 03:05:43.959
<v Speaker 1>ARVR stuff that you could do text so that I

3580
03:05:43.959 --> 03:05:46.799
<v Speaker 1>would just read just like a subtitle if I'm talking

3581
03:05:46.840 --> 03:05:48.479
<v Speaker 1>to someone in a different language, if you wanted to

3582
03:05:48.520 --> 03:05:51.079
<v Speaker 1>do an ARVR gone, And that is incredible.

3583
03:05:50.639 --> 03:05:51.520
<v Speaker 3>It's impressive.

3584
03:05:51.639 --> 03:05:53.399
<v Speaker 1>And so what I keep saying is all of the

3585
03:05:53.479 --> 03:05:57.000
<v Speaker 1>technology to change the way we protect our service members'

3586
03:05:57.000 --> 03:06:01.639
<v Speaker 1>respiratory systems is there. We sim need to decide how

3587
03:06:01.680 --> 03:06:05.079
<v Speaker 1>to deploy it. And so instead of simply presenting a

3588
03:06:05.159 --> 03:06:10.639
<v Speaker 1>problem to the United States Military Solutions twenty one, in

3589
03:06:10.760 --> 03:06:15.520
<v Speaker 1>conjunction with VENTIS Respiratory Technologies is building the solution, and

3590
03:06:15.600 --> 03:06:17.799
<v Speaker 1>whether you want to adopt it or not, that's up

3591
03:06:17.840 --> 03:06:20.440
<v Speaker 1>to the military. Right We're using these right now with

3592
03:06:20.520 --> 03:06:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of first responders, a lot of SWAT teams.

3593
03:06:24.200 --> 03:06:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Fentanyl is an issue, a.

3594
03:06:26.120 --> 03:06:28.639
<v Speaker 1>Lot of you know, customs and Border patrol agents are

3595
03:06:28.680 --> 03:06:31.520
<v Speaker 1>starting to look at this because they can speak fluently

3596
03:06:32.319 --> 03:06:36.520
<v Speaker 1>with anyone they encounter, odas and seal teams that are

3597
03:06:36.520 --> 03:06:39.920
<v Speaker 1>doing j sets. This is the perfect tool for you

3598
03:06:40.000 --> 03:06:42.879
<v Speaker 1>to protect yourself from those environments that are not as

3599
03:06:43.360 --> 03:06:46.000
<v Speaker 1>environmentally clean as we might be in in the United

3600
03:06:46.000 --> 03:06:48.840
<v Speaker 1>States or another developed country and still be able to

3601
03:06:48.920 --> 03:06:51.239
<v Speaker 1>cleanly communicate that's with somebody else.

3602
03:06:52.200 --> 03:06:52.520
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

3603
03:06:52.559 --> 03:06:55.479
<v Speaker 1>It's there's an amazing team that's been working on this,

3604
03:06:55.559 --> 03:06:57.120
<v Speaker 1>and I'm simply an advocate for it.

3605
03:06:57.200 --> 03:06:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Where can people go to find vent this and Solutions

3606
03:06:59.639 --> 03:07:02.319
<v Speaker 2>twenty one on if they're interested in this STA So

3607
03:07:02.559 --> 03:07:04.959
<v Speaker 2>if you're interested in you know, leadership development and US

3608
03:07:05.040 --> 03:07:07.479
<v Speaker 2>coming in and teaching the way that we build teams

3609
03:07:07.520 --> 03:07:09.879
<v Speaker 2>inside of the military in particular, and you know how

3610
03:07:09.879 --> 03:07:14.200
<v Speaker 2>we align vision to execution, then Solutions twenty one dot

3611
03:07:14.239 --> 03:07:16.959
<v Speaker 2>com ww dot Solutions twenty one dot.

3612
03:07:16.760 --> 03:07:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Com, you know, tell them Jason Sention and then Ventus

3613
03:07:20.319 --> 03:07:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Respiratory Technologies, so Ventus RT dot com and you can

3614
03:07:25.040 --> 03:07:27.120
<v Speaker 1>just Google into that, put it in perplexity, put it

3615
03:07:27.159 --> 03:07:29.280
<v Speaker 1>in chat GPT and it'll bring up the links.

3616
03:07:29.719 --> 03:07:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Any final thoughts before we get going anything, We filled

3617
03:07:32.600 --> 03:07:34.000
<v Speaker 2>the cover that you'd like to hit up.

3618
03:07:34.520 --> 03:07:35.440
<v Speaker 3>I think the only.

3619
03:07:35.280 --> 03:07:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Thing that I do want to reinforce is this was

3620
03:07:38.399 --> 03:07:41.239
<v Speaker 1>a once in a lifetime opportunity for me, and so

3621
03:07:41.440 --> 03:07:42.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, thank pleasure to having me.

3622
03:07:42.600 --> 03:07:44.120
<v Speaker 3>Thank you gentlemen for letting me come in.

3623
03:07:44.079 --> 03:07:46.120
<v Speaker 1>And thank you tell the story of you know, some

3624
03:07:46.200 --> 03:07:48.040
<v Speaker 1>of the amazing heroes that I got to work with.

3625
03:07:48.079 --> 03:07:52.159
<v Speaker 1>I was simply standing amongst giants. I definitely was not one,

3626
03:07:52.239 --> 03:07:54.719
<v Speaker 1>and I'm only five nine with my shoes on. So

3627
03:07:55.000 --> 03:07:56.680
<v Speaker 1>when you're standing next to some of these guys, they

3628
03:07:56.719 --> 03:08:00.760
<v Speaker 1>are definitely the giants, and deservedly so. But more importantly,

3629
03:08:00.840 --> 03:08:05.239
<v Speaker 1>this was a really unique opportunity to have my nineteen

3630
03:08:05.280 --> 03:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>year old daughter, who grew up in the Global War

3631
03:08:08.239 --> 03:08:12.760
<v Speaker 1>on Terror, who I deployed when she was fifteen months old.

3632
03:08:13.239 --> 03:08:16.000
<v Speaker 1>I really didn't come back until she was about sixteen,

3633
03:08:16.639 --> 03:08:20.920
<v Speaker 1>maybe seventeen, and giving me the opportunity to have this

3634
03:08:21.000 --> 03:08:25.479
<v Speaker 1>experience with her to just tell her why maybe we

3635
03:08:25.520 --> 03:08:27.959
<v Speaker 1>did this or why it was important at least to

3636
03:08:28.000 --> 03:08:30.479
<v Speaker 1>hear the story the things that I don't think we

3637
03:08:30.559 --> 03:08:33.239
<v Speaker 1>do a great job of. And so I think I'd

3638
03:08:33.280 --> 03:08:36.239
<v Speaker 1>love to raise some awareness around our military brats and

3639
03:08:36.319 --> 03:08:38.360
<v Speaker 1>what they went through and the support that they need.

3640
03:08:38.360 --> 03:08:41.159
<v Speaker 1>And I hope that this is the beginning of that conversation.

3641
03:08:41.360 --> 03:08:43.639
<v Speaker 1>And it was a pleasure for me to be able

3642
03:08:43.680 --> 03:08:47.360
<v Speaker 1>to sit here with my daughter, who I know is

3643
03:08:47.559 --> 03:08:49.959
<v Speaker 1>partly paying attention and partly talking to her friends at

3644
03:08:49.959 --> 03:08:52.399
<v Speaker 1>college about what they're going to do tonight. But maybe

3645
03:08:52.520 --> 03:08:54.280
<v Speaker 1>one day she'll think back to one of these stories

3646
03:08:54.280 --> 03:08:55.639
<v Speaker 1>and it'll mean something to it.

3647
03:08:55.639 --> 03:08:58.159
<v Speaker 2>It means We were talking a little bit before the

3648
03:08:58.200 --> 03:09:01.879
<v Speaker 2>show and telling you about how I hear a lot

3649
03:09:01.920 --> 03:09:05.040
<v Speaker 2>from the children of Vietnam veterans and their dad has

3650
03:09:05.079 --> 03:09:07.719
<v Speaker 2>been dead now for ten twenty years in some cases,

3651
03:09:08.280 --> 03:09:10.040
<v Speaker 2>and they come to me asking, you know, how can

3652
03:09:10.079 --> 03:09:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I find out about what my dad did? And you know,

3653
03:09:12.920 --> 03:09:15.000
<v Speaker 2>you can foia some documents, but it's not going to

3654
03:09:15.079 --> 03:09:18.799
<v Speaker 2>give them the experiential information that you know you shared

3655
03:09:18.840 --> 03:09:21.440
<v Speaker 2>with us today. And that's why I know going on

3656
03:09:21.479 --> 03:09:24.520
<v Speaker 2>a podcast ism for everyone, but I really encourage veterans

3657
03:09:24.920 --> 03:09:28.719
<v Speaker 2>to at least pen ten to twenty pages, put it

3658
03:09:28.719 --> 03:09:31.479
<v Speaker 2>in a shoebox for their for their kids and grandkids.

3659
03:09:32.399 --> 03:09:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't have to be public for the family, right, because

3660
03:09:34.680 --> 03:09:36.719
<v Speaker 2>your kids and grandkids will have these questions.

3661
03:09:36.920 --> 03:09:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Captain Joe Thomas Special Forces E seven, who became

3662
03:09:41.399 --> 03:09:43.280
<v Speaker 1>a lieutenant in the one hundred first Airborne with me,

3663
03:09:43.440 --> 03:09:46.879
<v Speaker 1>told me to keep a journal at every combat tour,

3664
03:09:46.959 --> 03:09:48.799
<v Speaker 1>and I have followed his advice to this day.

3665
03:09:48.959 --> 03:09:54.079
<v Speaker 4>I wish I had, I really wish I had, you know,

3666
03:09:54.639 --> 03:09:56.360
<v Speaker 4>kept like it's all just.

3667
03:09:56.280 --> 03:09:57.079
<v Speaker 3>One big blur to me.

3668
03:09:57.120 --> 03:10:02.239
<v Speaker 4>Now, you know, one big green right experience that I

3669
03:10:02.280 --> 03:10:03.680
<v Speaker 4>have a hard time separating things.

3670
03:10:03.760 --> 03:10:04.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

3671
03:10:04.319 --> 03:10:06.399
<v Speaker 3>No, it was a powerful, powerful mentorship from me.

3672
03:10:06.479 --> 03:10:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, guys, thanks for joining us for this Christmas episode.

3673
03:10:10.639 --> 03:10:12.959
<v Speaker 1>Our next one is gonna be our yearine review.

3674
03:10:13.040 --> 03:10:16.280
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about all the shows we had in twenty

3675
03:10:16.280 --> 03:10:20.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty four. It'll be nuts and we're looking forward to

3676
03:10:20.000 --> 03:10:23.559
<v Speaker 2>going in at twenty twenty five. We're scheduling, We're done,

3677
03:10:23.680 --> 03:10:27.600
<v Speaker 2>January is filled, February is almost filled. We're looking at

3678
03:10:27.680 --> 03:10:30.399
<v Speaker 2>March now. So are we gonna talk about a new format.

3679
03:10:31.760 --> 03:10:32.399
<v Speaker 1>On this one?

3680
03:10:32.600 --> 03:10:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll talk about on the next one, next one cool.

3681
03:10:37.159 --> 03:10:39.719
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, thank you, Jason, I appreciate it. Thank you

3682
03:10:39.760 --> 03:10:43.239
<v Speaker 2>for coming in being here in studio, and we'll see

3683
03:10:43.239 --> 03:10:44.239
<v Speaker 2>all you guys next time.

3684
03:10:44.319 --> 03:10:56.399
<v Speaker 3>Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.