Speaker 1: Welcome to Truth Time with doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner.
Speaker 1: Per usual, we kind of all joy and I mean
Speaker 1: all joy, and you are here with us on this
Speaker 1: a day. Today is our teaching, the birthday day where
Speaker 1: we go deep about events or personalities that have shaped, impacted,
Speaker 1: shook up our world. And today we're talking about none
Speaker 1: other than A Jack A. Johnson now john author. Johnson
Speaker 1: was born on March thirty first, eighteen seventy eight, and
Speaker 1: he passed away on June tenth, nineteen forty six. He
Speaker 1: was nicknamed the Galveston Giant. He was an American boxer
Speaker 1: and African American boxer to be specific, who was fighting
Speaker 1: at the height of Jim Crow.
Speaker 2: Who doc he really?
Speaker 1: I mean, he messed up the minds of a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of white folks during that Jim Crow era and
Speaker 1: even beyond. I think even today he would be among
Speaker 1: some of the great twentieth and twenty first century of boxers.
Speaker 1: If he were alive today, he would have given many
Speaker 1: of them a run for his a run for their money.
Speaker 1: So he really became known as the first black man
Speaker 1: to be a heavyweight champion, to really capture the imagination
Speaker 1: more importantly of black people who really saw the battles
Speaker 1: that he was fighting and the matches that he won
Speaker 1: as really the black community overall, winning winning against Jim Crow,
Speaker 1: winning against hatred, winning against bigotry, and to be honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, just winning against white supremacy. So black people
Speaker 1: really internalized Jack Johnson in a way that I don't
Speaker 1: think many understand. He was not just a boxer in
Speaker 1: a ring. He was boxing for the heart, to soul,
Speaker 1: the respect, you know, giving black people something to really
Speaker 1: be proud of in a way to say, we're sticking
Speaker 1: it to the man.
Speaker 3: Quite honestly, no, that's very, very real that.
Speaker 4: Jack Johnson was one of the freest black men in
Speaker 4: the shit of the country. And that freedom when hand
Speaker 4: in hand with a dignity and respect that he was
Speaker 4: fighting for not just on behalf of himself, but on
Speaker 4: behalf of a black folk who terrorized and traumatized. And
Speaker 4: so when he was knocking white brothers out, that was
Speaker 4: a triumph of black dignity and black respect in a
Speaker 4: context because you think of Jim Crow America. The only
Speaker 4: space in America where black people were treated fairly, it
Speaker 4: was the boxing ring.
Speaker 3: But you got one set of rules, you got one referee.
Speaker 4: Everybody can see it because it is a national and
Speaker 4: internet national spectacle. So we finally have an opportunity for
Speaker 4: what tavers of fundamental fairness. And let's see who wins.
Speaker 4: And he knocks out the first Jeffries, then he knocks
Speaker 4: out his brother, Jefferes, and when he knocks out the
Speaker 4: old man Jefferies. In July fourth, nineteen ten, as you know,
Speaker 4: ten black people were killed that night. They were riots
Speaker 4: of the country of white folk just attacking black folk
Speaker 4: because they could take the fact that a black man
Speaker 4: had eaten a white man.
Speaker 3: That's how deep and.
Speaker 4: Sick the white supremacy was then and continues to be
Speaker 4: in various ways. Now, Jack Johnson becomes symbol as well
Speaker 4: as literal figure of dignity, respect and freedom and triumph
Speaker 4: for black folk. And just like then and now, black
Speaker 4: foolk hungry for dignity, hungry for respect, hungry for freedom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'sdeed got the hungry for respect, hungry for dignity,
Speaker 1: and hungry for freedom. So let us I want to
Speaker 1: rest a little bit on the race riots. We know
Speaker 1: that the bloody or the red summer, red summer of
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen or race riots broke out all over the
Speaker 1: country at the hands of white people just randomly attacking
Speaker 1: black people.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was like a disease. It was almost
Speaker 2: like the spreading of the flu or covid or something like.
Speaker 5: It was a plague.
Speaker 2: You know that that and.
Speaker 1: This country does not reckon We have enough that that is.
Speaker 1: That's domestic terrorism for you. I mean that that stuff
Speaker 1: is real. We don't even have to go We should
Speaker 1: always reference child of Slavery always. I really personally don't
Speaker 1: care what anybody has to say it about it. You know,
Speaker 1: I agree with the fact that you know, James Baldwin
Speaker 1: once said, know from whence you came? If you know
Speaker 1: from whence you can it's virtually nowhere that you cannot go.
Speaker 1: And you can't say you love the tree if you
Speaker 1: hate the root. That is our reference point. It's not
Speaker 1: the only reference point in the great magnificence of black people,
Speaker 1: but it is the seminal reference point in terms of
Speaker 1: our souljourn in the United States of America. Now we
Speaker 1: want to go back to the continent, the motherland where
Speaker 1: our ancestors hail from. That's a whole nother glorious story
Speaker 1: which I believe allowed us to bear the burden and
Speaker 1: the beauty of being black, because it is both of
Speaker 1: those things. But make no mistake, white supremacy and just
Speaker 1: the literal deep seated hatred for us generally speaking, is
Speaker 1: attached to that white supremacy and just hatred for no reason.
Speaker 2: So the race riot. So I bring up bread.
Speaker 1: Summer in nineteen nineteen just to remind you people of that,
Speaker 1: and then let's talk about this race riot, the Johnson
Speaker 1: Jefferson Jeffries riot, which I'm sure a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't know about, probably have never heard of. But as
Speaker 1: you laid out, doctor, series of race riots that occurred
Speaker 1: throughout the United States. The African American boxer, the Galveston
Speaker 1: Giant knocked out, defeated James J. Jeffries and a boxing
Speaker 1: match termed the fight of the century. They actually called
Speaker 1: that fight the fight of the century. Wow, that's heavy
Speaker 1: to put all that on one black man.
Speaker 2: When we come forward, we will continue our teach in
Speaker 2: that Thursday.
Speaker 1: Today, doctor West and I are talking about the one
Speaker 1: and only Jack Johnson, the first African American evyweight champion
Speaker 1: of the world, who did his thing at the time
Speaker 1: where wow, it was even more dangerous to do there
Speaker 1: to do something that he did it. Oh when we
Speaker 1: continue here with us today on this teaching Thursday, we
Speaker 1: all know that on Thursdays, doctors and myself we go
Speaker 1: really deep talking about a luminary of people who did
Speaker 1: not liking themselves to be luminaries. Man, they ain't set
Speaker 1: out to be luminaries, but baby, did they shake in
Speaker 1: shape of the world. Or we talk about events, and
Speaker 1: this gives us the opportunity.
Speaker 2: With you to go a little deeper.
Speaker 1: Today we are talking about the heavyweight champion Jack Johnson,
Speaker 1: who fought back boxing matches during the height of Jim Krow.
Speaker 1: He really set this country on fire. And so doctors,
Speaker 1: we as we were now that we've come forward, we
Speaker 1: were talking about those Johnson Jeffreys race riots and the
Speaker 1: fact that this that riot, you know, it was set
Speaker 1: off only because Johnson beat a white man fair and
Speaker 1: square in a boxing match that had rules set up
Speaker 1: and he beat him fair and square and the white
Speaker 1: psyche could not take it.
Speaker 2: And I'm just we wrestled with a lot on this show.
Speaker 1: I'm wrestling with the fact that they got so upset
Speaker 1: that they started rioting by being white people against black people,
Speaker 1: because this black man fair and square. This wasn't no
Speaker 1: street brawl, this was in a boxing ring and he
Speaker 1: beat Jeffrey's fair and square, and that set white people off.
Speaker 1: And not only did it set them off, they felt
Speaker 1: as though, and they acted in this way, that they
Speaker 1: had car Blanche to just randomly start just beating up
Speaker 1: black people so that they felt a sense of entitlement, right,
Speaker 1: that they're always supposed to be on top, that they're
Speaker 1: always supposed to win, so much so that they go
Speaker 1: out and stoke violence against black people.
Speaker 3: That's exactly ray, that's exactly right. I mean the.
Speaker 4: Depth of the hatred rooted in a depth of insecurity.
Speaker 4: I mean there's a story right here in New York,
Speaker 4: right after the white right after the fight, where people
Speaker 4: were looking at black folks, thinking, our hustle, you think
Speaker 4: you're gonna be out.
Speaker 3: Beyond your position?
Speaker 4: Now now that black doubt.
Speaker 3: Old brother Jeffreys.
Speaker 4: And in a way I wouldn't even call it riot.
Speaker 4: It was a massacre of black.
Speaker 2: People, Yeah, be right down, that's really was.
Speaker 3: And it was a massive one, and I mean fascinating
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm gonna r Lee of course, always viewed
Speaker 4: himself as an extension of Jackson, and so did so
Speaker 4: did Miles Davis.
Speaker 3: You know my great album nineteen seventy one on Jack Johnson.
Speaker 3: He said it's one of his greatest albums.
Speaker 4: That he was a boxer too, but he always felt
Speaker 4: so close to Jack Johnson. When I asked Prince who
Speaker 4: his grand American hero was, he said Jack Johnson. No, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: he said Jack Johnson. This brother's in the most hate
Speaker 4: the history of the country, and he's a free man.
Speaker 4: He does what he wants to do. Of course, he
Speaker 4: got in out of trouble in his personal life, you know,
Speaker 4: messing with the white sisters.
Speaker 3: And of course what did they do.
Speaker 4: They criminalized him, to incarcerated him, to Levin, spent time
Speaker 4: in Leavenworth for doing what well, for being a free man.
Speaker 3: It was like it was unbelievable.
Speaker 4: That level self confidence, that level of willingness to do
Speaker 4: what one wants to do in light of one's conception
Speaker 4: of oneself is something always had a deep appeal to
Speaker 4: the Muhammad Ali's and princes and uh uh uh uh
Speaker 4: and and and and other black men.
Speaker 3: In fact, also Ralph Ellison, Ralph Ellison his hero.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and his and his letters with with the
Speaker 4: with the great u uh uh. What's the brother's name,
Speaker 4: the American I can't even remember his name right now.
Speaker 4: But but in their letters they talk about how Jack
Speaker 4: Johnson was their hero.
Speaker 2: Definitely, that's amazing. That yeah, that is something.
Speaker 1: And to hear that Prince, I mean Prince and Jack
Speaker 1: Johnson spoken of in the same voice that or breath, Wow,
Speaker 1: that is amade. I don't know that little muggy is
Speaker 1: gonna have everybody like saying.
Speaker 4: What I'll be murray if anybody murray Ralph Ellison, that
Speaker 4: Jack Johnson is one of the heroes in that in
Speaker 4: the letters and.
Speaker 1: Their letters and did you you know in your conversation
Speaker 1: with the Purple One, did he did.
Speaker 2: He go deeper about it or just kind of put
Speaker 2: it out there?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: No, Shoot, he talked about the books that he read.
Speaker 4: He talked about the inspiration he felt. Anytime he was
Speaker 4: down and out and felt as if he there was
Speaker 4: no way that he could make it, he would go
Speaker 4: back and read about Jack Dohnson and how it was
Speaker 4: that his brother could sustain his sense of self in
Speaker 4: the face of unbelievable attack and assault.
Speaker 3: It's the freedom. And of course in some way, you know,
Speaker 3: the black folk too were very hard on Jack Johnson once.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then Booker T. Washington was one of his biggest critics,
Speaker 1: most well known critics.
Speaker 5: I believe.
Speaker 3: I could.
Speaker 4: I could imagine he looked much too much for Booker T.
Speaker 4: More respectability. You know, I'm not gonna be spending time
Speaker 4: out the club with all this swagger. And of course
Speaker 4: he got his cigar and he got his his new
Speaker 4: car every two weeks. And man, the sad thing is,
Speaker 4: you know, even when he did get married to the
Speaker 4: white sister, she committed suicide because it was too much pressure.
Speaker 4: Her family turned, yeah, turned the owner. And he wasn't
Speaker 4: acting right all the time either, but it was he
Speaker 4: really had a heavy, heavy, heavy birden even though he
Speaker 4: was making a lot, making the whole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still to endure.
Speaker 3: In the white box.
Speaker 4: When he was down in Australia and beat Tommy Burns
Speaker 4: the first time he became champion. Tommy Burns got thirty thousand,
Speaker 4: he got five thousand. He's still making less money, but
Speaker 4: it was making a lot of money for that average
Speaker 4: person was making about eight hundred dollars a year. But
Speaker 4: still he get five thousand, and the white cat ten
Speaker 4: thirty thousand, and he's supposed to be satisfied and have
Speaker 4: with his position, and he's.
Speaker 1: The champ, right, So they paid Jack Johnson the champ,
Speaker 1: the heavyweight champion of the world, of the United States,
Speaker 1: of the world and the world. And he gets five thousand,
Speaker 1: and then his white probalyague term loosely received thirty thousand.
Speaker 1: I mean, doct that is a micro column of how
Speaker 1: black people are treated in this society, continue to get
Speaker 1: less compared to their white counterparts. That is happening today
Speaker 1: in the twenty first century. Quite telling the pattern of
Speaker 1: white supremacy. We can predict the pattern. It's the same
Speaker 1: pattern decade after decade, century after century, year after year.
Speaker 1: Is the same pattern. So Jack Johnson, so the white
Speaker 1: community of that time. So he won the championship in
Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine, I believe, I think I'm right about that.
Speaker 1: But the early nineteen hundreds he wins his champion was
Speaker 1: it was nineteen oh eight, was it nineteen oh eight?
Speaker 1: Nineteen oh eight, he wins the championship, right.
Speaker 4: I thought, okay, six nineteen oh eight, nineteen oh eight.
Speaker 1: White people lose their mind, even though he's in the
Speaker 1: boxing ring, fighting fair and square.
Speaker 2: They lost their mind. So massacre and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 1: Because Jeffries was considered what the Great White Hope or
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 3: That's eight.
Speaker 4: They convinced Jefferies to come out of retirement and not
Speaker 4: yet Negro, to reaffirm their sense of white supremacy. He
Speaker 4: goes back into training, gets into the ring July fourth,
Speaker 4: nineteen ten, and this Great White Hope. And remember remember
Speaker 4: the play, and I think they made a movie out
Speaker 4: of it too.
Speaker 2: They did. I thought it was called Yeah, Yes, was
Speaker 2: Samuel Ellen that doc. I don't know why I see
Speaker 2: Samuel Ol in my mind for that movie.
Speaker 4: Don't remember. That's a good question. Jones was the main character,
Speaker 4: well he played okay Johnson.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, maybe I'm mixing up movies on that one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So the white society goes crazy and they
Speaker 1: want to punish random black people and rain or terror
Speaker 1: as you said. So Jack Johnson, being the free black
Speaker 1: man that he was, decided that you know, hey, any
Speaker 1: woman from any background.
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true.
Speaker 2: Willing and Abel, you know, I might rock that way.
Speaker 6: And he didn't rock that way, committing the ultimate and
Speaker 6: I mean the ultimate transgression against white men.
Speaker 3: This is exactly.
Speaker 2: That is still true today.
Speaker 1: I want to recommend our audience reads a doctor Francis Crest. Uh.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, welles and yes, thank you, DoD, Oh
Speaker 1: my god.
Speaker 2: The book the book.
Speaker 1: Uh, I have lost the book, doc, but she wrote
Speaker 1: a magnificent book and I'm gonna look it up about
Speaker 1: the white psychology and uh and and and and and
Speaker 1: and black maleness and how in the white man's psyche
Speaker 1: he can never ever get over the attributes of black men.
Speaker 1: And the audience know who I'm going for. So it's
Speaker 1: always that fight. That is why when black men were
Speaker 1: lynched by and large, they were castrated at the same time.
Speaker 1: That is, and Francis quest well, then she welles ling,
Speaker 1: she goes deep into the psychology of that that is
Speaker 1: still very much in the white psyche to this very day.
Speaker 1: So they go after Jack Johnson because he created the
Speaker 1: ultimate sin was to be in relationship with a white woman.
Speaker 1: Notwithstanding they can rape black women at will, they did
Speaker 1: rape a black woman, particularly during enslavement. Black women were
Speaker 1: always vulnerable, their daughters, their granddaughters, their nieces, always vulnerable.
Speaker 2: We don't talk a lot.
Speaker 1: About the sexual exploitation of black men. Black men were
Speaker 1: sexually exploited too, because they had absolutely.
Speaker 2: No control male or female or person.
Speaker 1: Black persons had no control over their bodies whatsoever. So
Speaker 1: you got the physical abuse, the raw physical abuse in
Speaker 1: that you're working them hard and killing them off, working
Speaker 1: them hard, killing them off, working them or killing them off.
Speaker 1: So you got that kind of physical you got that
Speaker 1: physical you got the psychological abuse, and then you got
Speaker 1: the sexual abuse black men and black women. And because
Speaker 1: of the kind of male psyche of.
Speaker 2: Not really talking about it in this country, we don't.
Speaker 1: Talk about that a lot about how black men are violated.
Speaker 1: They have been violated, they continue to be violated. They
Speaker 1: were really violated during that time, black women especially, so
Speaker 1: so I'm thinking, Doc, you know, is it that guilt
Speaker 1: that drives them crazy. I mean, they put they put
Speaker 1: white women on a pedestal, and they a lot of
Speaker 1: the lynchings, A lot of excuses for the lynchions was
Speaker 1: they made black men to be out to be stark, raving,
Speaker 1: that sexual beast and I'm using exact words, and so
Speaker 1: they violated the precious.
Speaker 2: Womanhood of white women. Meanwhile, it is white men.
Speaker 1: Who were doing what they claimed that black men were doing,
Speaker 1: the wonderful, truly magnificent. I'd have be well. Did all
Speaker 1: our research on this, and most of the time it
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with black men raping white women
Speaker 1: and had everything to do with black men and black
Speaker 1: people being successful and uppity and getting out of their station.
Speaker 2: As to why they would lynched them. But they lynched
Speaker 2: and castrated them.
Speaker 3: Don oh, lord lord.
Speaker 2: Almost every time they sold.
Speaker 4: Their parts, they sold their parts, and the private parts
Speaker 4: were the parts that they gained most money.
Speaker 3: They profited most from that.
Speaker 4: One the boys about Sam Holes when he's walking down
Speaker 4: the street and they see Sam Holes's knuckles are being
Speaker 4: told and does his research and he sees, of course
Speaker 4: that the private parts are the parts that made the
Speaker 4: most money of And it was a public spectacle. Over
Speaker 4: fifteen thousand and sick folks were out there to watch
Speaker 4: the lynching as they then cut up his body and
Speaker 4: sold various parts of his body. And that kind of
Speaker 4: thing was not abnormal. See we're talking about levels of
Speaker 4: sickness here and levels of pathology.
Speaker 3: The great E.
Speaker 4: Franklin Fraser wrote an essay called white supremacy as Social
Speaker 4: Pathology came out in nineteen twenty seven. They ran him
Speaker 4: out of town. It was in Atlanta, Atlanta University. Came
Speaker 4: out and they ran him out of town. This is
Speaker 4: in an academic journal, and they lynching folk. And he
Speaker 4: just calls it pathology and can tell the truth that
Speaker 4: he's the one to get run.
Speaker 3: Out of town. See, this is.
Speaker 4: Part of the scope and breadth of the sickness and pathology.
Speaker 4: And somebody got to tell about it. Somebody got to
Speaker 4: be candid about it. Somebody got to be courageous enough
Speaker 4: to say, this is beyond sickness, y'all.
Speaker 2: And and this is probably some of the reasons.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could fast forward to today, the twenty
Speaker 1: first century real quick, because we go in and out
Speaker 1: of history because we want people to understand the relevance.
Speaker 1: If you want to understand why the criminal, the legal
Speaker 1: system treats black people differently, all we got to do
Speaker 1: is go back to the root. You know, all of
Speaker 1: these things are not happening in isolation. And that's what
Speaker 1: we need people to know. Is connected, all intricately connected, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: So it is a pathology. It is a sickness. You know,
Speaker 1: even when black people were being lynched I mean they
Speaker 1: would bring out the whole community then and take pictures
Speaker 1: and take the photograph.
Speaker 2: They were posed with the bodies. They would even have
Speaker 2: their babies out there, Doc, they have their little kids
Speaker 2: out there. Oh pose. It was like a community gathering.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the picture.
Speaker 2: That's just you know, when we come forward.
Speaker 1: When we come forward, we will continue this conversation. This
Speaker 1: discussion is teaching really about the great the first black
Speaker 1: heavyweight champion of the world, the one and only Jack Johnson.
Speaker 1: He was heavyweight champion from nineteen oh eight to nineteen fifteen.
Speaker 1: He gave black people so much pride, and he shook
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 2: Yes he did. When we continue, we are so.
Speaker 1: Happy that you've come forward with us on this teach Thursday.
Speaker 2: Doc, and I got a lot of stuff going on.
Speaker 1: But the most important thing is we are here to
Speaker 1: lift up the life, the legacy, the incredible sacrifice in
Speaker 1: the personage of the one and only Nina some moan.
Speaker 1: She really was all of.
Speaker 5: That, you know, Doc.
Speaker 1: For a brief time, she started teaching music to survive,
Speaker 1: you know, to make money before you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it quite was it before she started doing
Speaker 1: the club work, but she taught for a while, she
Speaker 1: gave lessons to people.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, yoh no, yeah, I'm not either.
Speaker 1: I mean just anybody that actually got trained by Nina Simone. God, God,
Speaker 1: bless you so much talking about her. She was born
Speaker 1: in North Carolina on February twenty first, nineteen thirty three.
Speaker 1: Nina Simone passed away in two thousand and three. But
Speaker 1: that dash, that dash made all the difference. So yeah,
Speaker 1: according to the Sight, again please encouraging you to go
Speaker 1: to Nina Simone dot com. They've done a wonderful job
Speaker 1: in trying to capture her life. One of the quotes,
Speaker 1: this is the world you have made for yourself. Now
Speaker 1: you have to live in it. She was just unapologetically
Speaker 1: her doc and I love that about her.
Speaker 2: She was a I'm an introvert.
Speaker 1: She was the opposite of me, and so I take
Speaker 1: great pride in looking at her and listening to her
Speaker 1: and her boldness. And in some ways, you know, when
Speaker 1: I'm on my assignment in terms of fighting for people,
Speaker 1: I think my boldness comes out in that way.
Speaker 5: But I'm really an introvert.
Speaker 4: But I think you all are very very mild because
Speaker 4: I think so, yes, very much so, because when I
Speaker 4: was walking with her, you could tell that she was
Speaker 4: very introverted. She was inside of her world, and she
Speaker 4: was really in many ways at ease by being in
Speaker 4: her world. But when I'm alone, and of course they
Speaker 4: recognized she was very extroverted, so she was able to
Speaker 4: shift smoothly from intro extrovertin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I shift too, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so going back, so they said. To survive, she
Speaker 1: began teaching music to local students. One faithful day in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, looking to supplement her income, Unice Aka
Speaker 1: needed some own audition to play piano at the Midtown
Speaker 1: Bar and Grill on Pacific Avenue in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: The owner informed her that not only would she be
Speaker 1: hired to play, but she was also required to sing.
Speaker 1: Despite her dreams and plans to become the first black
Speaker 1: female classical pianist, Unie Aka Needa Small needed the income
Speaker 1: and accepted the job. Doc the universe has a way
Speaker 1: of making a way for you that you did not see.
Speaker 3: Is it that something?
Speaker 4: Because she specialized in bach as a class, Yes it was.
Speaker 4: She was a major and grand player of box music.
Speaker 4: And she shifts right there in Atlantic City and starts
Speaker 4: playing jazz and blues, and then she thought she was
Speaker 4: just gonna play. They said, no, you got to sing. Well,
Speaker 4: let's get in a compliment. Now you got to company
Speaker 4: your sin and she starts singing to her own music.
Speaker 4: Next thing, you know, I love.
Speaker 3: You Porkyo, yeah.
Speaker 4: Budge Gershwin classic, that thing hit and it's at the
Speaker 4: top of the list, and everybody thinking, like dang.
Speaker 3: Who is his sister?
Speaker 4: Sure Gershwin like this, Well, she's classically trained but playing
Speaker 4: on the.
Speaker 3: Strip in the casino, the casino bar in atlet.
Speaker 1: And I mean again, her gifts made room for her,
Speaker 1: so it spread. The words spread about this new pianist,
Speaker 1: this new and unique style who was dripping through the
Speaker 1: song books of Gershwin as you named out.
Speaker 5: So they land it all out doctors.
Speaker 1: As you are, and her gifts made room for her.
Speaker 1: At the age of twenty four, Nina came to the
Speaker 1: attention of the record industry after submitting a demo of
Speaker 1: songs she had recorded doing a performance in New.
Speaker 2: Hope, Sabinia.
Speaker 1: She was signed by Sid Nathan, owner of the Ohio
Speaker 1: based King Records, home to James Brown, God doc take
Speaker 1: it from There, Take it from there.
Speaker 4: Oh no, well that's what Bootsie the great Bouchie College,
Speaker 4: another giant and genius and his brother catch that's what
Speaker 4: they They met James Brown there at King's Studio.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, that part right there and then and so
Speaker 1: I take a pride that Ohio has some had dipped
Speaker 1: into this as well.
Speaker 5: And then they go on.
Speaker 1: One of Nina's stated musical influences was, and this probably
Speaker 1: will not surprise our audience much Billy Holiday.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, m one listening to another. One giant
Speaker 4: listening to another.
Speaker 2: Come on, come on with it, Come on with it.
Speaker 1: One of nina stated musical influences, Billy Holliday and her
Speaker 1: inspired reading of Porky from Porky and Bess heralded the
Speaker 1: arrival of a new talent on the national scene. At
Speaker 1: the same time mamm at thirteen Hour Session in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty seven, recorded in New York City, Nina also cut
Speaker 1: My Baby Just Cares for Me, previously recorded by that
Speaker 1: great great soloist.
Speaker 5: Nat King, Cole.
Speaker 2: Whooa, Count Basie, and Woody Herman.
Speaker 1: The song was used by Channel in a perf or
Speaker 1: Excuse Me by Chanell in a perfume commercial in Europe
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties and it became a massive hit
Speaker 1: for Nina, a British chart topper at number five and
Speaker 1: thus a staple.
Speaker 5: Of her repertoire for the rest of her career.
Speaker 1: Doc you talking about being able to morph and move
Speaker 1: them gifts anywhere that they were needed.
Speaker 4: That's Nina Simon, That's Nina Simon, I'm telling you. But
Speaker 4: her genius had a versatility. Yeah, she could move, she
Speaker 4: could improvise, take it to the highest level, shift when
Speaker 4: she wanted to. But the bob always was she was
Speaker 4: always ever herself.
Speaker 1: And that's really what I admire the most about her.
Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have definitely talked about colorism
Speaker 1: from time to time and we will continue to talk
Speaker 1: about it. It is part of anti blackness. And to
Speaker 1: see this chocolate beauty.
Speaker 5: Oh, in all of her glory.
Speaker 1: And people would just look upon that beauty of hers.
Speaker 1: But for her to own her beauty knowing that she
Speaker 1: was impacted by colorism as well. But she just had
Speaker 1: a boldness and a confidence about her that I'm act
Speaker 1: I really do.
Speaker 4: Oh, But she she had that confidence, she had a determination,
Speaker 4: she had a genius, she had a beauty, she had
Speaker 4: a beauty outside external term in terms, she handled herself
Speaker 4: and she's on the inside. All you had to do
Speaker 4: was just talk to her, and you knew you was
Speaker 4: talking to somebody who has spirit and a special annoying man.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I mean she moves like liquid
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's just coming to mind. I mean
Speaker 1: she was ooh, we she was very necessary, like water
Speaker 1: is necessary. We can't live like with our water, air
Speaker 1: and food. Oh my Nina, so my home was necessary
Speaker 1: to come into this world.
Speaker 2: And do all that she has done.
Speaker 1: And we're still talking about her to this day, and
Speaker 1: we will be talking about her for many generations to come.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Truth Time with doctor Cornell West and
Speaker 1: Nina Turner on our fantastic, if I must say so
Speaker 1: myself teaching Thursday, lifting up the life, the incredible life
Speaker 1: of Nina Samon.
Speaker 5: When we come forward, we will continue this conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you all so much for joining us today
Speaker 1: on our teaching Thursday with doctor West and myself, we
Speaker 1: go deep with either issues or personalities. Today we're talking
Speaker 1: about Nina Samon, the great classical pianists, the singer, the
Speaker 1: civil rights activists, just pure liquid cool.
Speaker 5: That was Nina Samon.
Speaker 1: Her very existence made a statement, a statement of liberation,
Speaker 1: a statement of power. And she is one of those
Speaker 1: very rare celebrities that was unafraid to use her celebrity
Speaker 1: to use her power to indict this nation and also
Speaker 1: to lift up the black community in particular.
Speaker 5: People loved her all over the world.
Speaker 1: Because she's the one and only Nina Some Mom, Doc,
Speaker 1: What do you what are some of your thoughts about
Speaker 1: what she was willing to sacrifice and what that means
Speaker 1: for each and every one of us today. I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't have to have a fancy title to be
Speaker 1: able to make sacrifices.
Speaker 5: Everyday.
Speaker 1: People make sacrifices for justice all the time. But when
Speaker 1: you do have the extraordinary gift the international renowned it's
Speaker 1: a Nina some Mom. But yet it was all in
Speaker 1: her and through her to stand up, through her songs,
Speaker 1: through the words that she would say for her people.
Speaker 1: That's that's incredible. It was incredible then, it's incredible today.
Speaker 1: But what do you think that her what is hurt
Speaker 1: the message of her life to the rest of us.
Speaker 4: I think it is is that when you are a
Speaker 4: genuine truth seeker and truth teller and justice motor that
Speaker 4: you will bad tremendous burdens and have to pay major costs.
Speaker 4: And in her life, her personal life, her political life,
Speaker 4: her social life, in many ways.
Speaker 3: You know, she was.
Speaker 4: Chased out of the United States and ended up spending
Speaker 4: many many years in Africa, many years Europe, and she persisted.
Speaker 3: Now, it was tough.
Speaker 4: It was up and down, and of course you know
Speaker 4: the troubles and challenges she had with her precious daughter,
Speaker 4: who was the god it was Lorraine Hansbury. It was
Speaker 4: a very very difficult one and it was hard to
Speaker 4: get the kind of companion that she really deserved. That
Speaker 4: was a whole another thing. That's another major cost. That
Speaker 4: it was true to herself. She was true to her music.
Speaker 4: And I'm just trying to think of somebody today who
Speaker 4: was part of her legacy in an exemplary manner.
Speaker 3: Uh I tell.
Speaker 4: You Eric about it. It was the only one that
Speaker 4: comes to mind. And she in her own distinctively Dallas,
Speaker 4: Texas way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, genius.
Speaker 4: Now you notice that when Beyonce made her documentary, she
Speaker 4: made that big tribute to Nina Simone. Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad she did.
Speaker 4: But being on to first one to say, even giving
Speaker 4: her genius and being a giant, that Nina is in
Speaker 4: a whole different league when it comes to.
Speaker 3: A sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she always I mean she always will be.
Speaker 1: But she left tremendous footprints for people to be able
Speaker 1: to trace. Rule Truth Time Teaching Thursday with doctor Cornell
Speaker 1: Weston Nina Turner just amazing, lifting up the life and
Speaker 1: the legacy and telling stories that you can only hear
Speaker 1: here here on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty.
Speaker 5: Doctor west fhaired his airport story.
Speaker 1: If you missed it, baby, you want to go back
Speaker 1: and check that out, make sure you download the app.
Speaker 5: This is truth Time when we come.
Speaker 1: Forward our remaining four minutes lifting up Nina Simon. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming forward with us on this
Speaker 1: teaching in Thursday. We're talking about Nina Simons.
Speaker 5: She was gifted.
Speaker 1: There was nobody like her, and she had no problem
Speaker 1: with telling the truth, telling it like as my grandmother
Speaker 1: would say, like it is, you know, Doc, Nina Simone
Speaker 1: came into contact with really other great people in their
Speaker 1: own right that were.
Speaker 5: Outside the music industry.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing a picture of her and James Baldwin,
Speaker 1: one of the greatest novelists of the twentieth century, one
Speaker 1: of my favorite novelists. I'm sure that had to be surreal.
Speaker 3: Oh that's the truth.
Speaker 4: I think Balwin was the one who was getting down
Speaker 4: on his knee because certainly the great greatest writer, especially
Speaker 4: of essays, but the novels are powerful too. But he
Speaker 4: modeled himself on the Bessie Smiths and the Wreatha Franklin's
Speaker 4: and Nina Simone. So music was always the standard his
Speaker 4: his history, right to the condition of music. So when
Speaker 4: he met at Nina Simone, o, Lord have mercy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had to.
Speaker 4: He had to get down on his knees and rightly so.
Speaker 4: But she was down on her knees too because she
Speaker 4: knew his genius was something that was that was beyond description.
Speaker 1: Come on, game, recognize game, doc I'm gonna go back
Speaker 1: to Nina's ninasimon dot com, which I encourage people. So
Speaker 1: she had those two marriages, as doculaid out, she passed away.
Speaker 5: In France, you know.
Speaker 1: In her autobiography, Nina Simone writes that her function as
Speaker 1: an artist is quote to make people feel on a
Speaker 1: deep level. It's difficult to describe because it's not something
Speaker 1: you can add lives to get near what it's about
Speaker 1: you to play, you have to play it. When it's
Speaker 1: about you, you have to play it. And when you've
Speaker 1: caught it, when you've got the audience hook, you always know.
Speaker 1: Because it's like electricity hanging in the air. End quote.
Speaker 1: Everything about her, Doc was like electricity hanging in the air.
Speaker 4: My god, Oh lord, I felt that electricity carrying her.
Speaker 1: Bags, Oh, Doc, I certainly believe that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny.
Speaker 5: I'm chuckling when you sall carry her back.
Speaker 2: Because I got so many bags, it's insane. So you
Speaker 2: would probably feel it the same way. Oh. I tried
Speaker 2: to channel Nina some all all the time in my.
Speaker 5: Work, in you know, in public spaces.
Speaker 1: I just really love her so very much, and I
Speaker 1: just hope that our audience has a better feel for her.
Speaker 1: A final thoughts, Doc, and are about a sixty seconds
Speaker 1: or so that we have left.
Speaker 4: Well, it's just amazing how wise your precious mom was
Speaker 4: to name you a simone.
Speaker 1: I'm telling maybe she saw something in me. I counted
Speaker 1: all joy I'm honored.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: My mom gave me a different middle name, but I'm
Speaker 1: almost tempted to change it.
Speaker 5: To Simon, but I don't want to dishonor my mama.
Speaker 5: She made a decision and I'm staying with it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stick with it, Doc, Wow, this has been
Speaker 1: a pleasure to lift up the life and the legacy
Speaker 1: of the One in Only Nina Simon again one of
Speaker 1: her famous quotes. I tell you what freedom is to me.
Speaker 1: It is no fear. And that is exactly what we
Speaker 1: need in this moment in time.
Speaker 5: Doc.
Speaker 1: We talk about that all the time on Truth Time,
Speaker 1: that people have to live fearless lives no fear.
Speaker 5: That is what freedom is to me. We want you
Speaker 5: to live.
Speaker 1: On purpose, live out your purpose, and above all, understand
Speaker 1: this that titles are good, they really really are.
Speaker 5: For purpose is better Until next time.