WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:05.200 The following presentation Isadel Marvis Studio's production. 2 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.599 You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network. 3 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:15.199 Here is your host, George Hobbs. 4 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.399 Welcome back to truth seekers from around the world. It's 5 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:24.160 time for another edition of the fact Hunter podcast. We're 6 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.920 actually recording on Monday. It's April twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. 7 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.600 I hope this finds you well. I hope everybody had 8 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:34.240 a great spring break and a nice weekend. The weather 9 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.520 here has been pretty phenomenal. We've been out and about 10 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.600 preparing for everything that May is going to bring us, 11 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.119 and it surely is going to be busy. But everybody's happy, 12 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:46.320 healthy and doing well, and I hope you and yours 13 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:51.119 are as well. Two quick notes, Questions, comments, concerns, and 14 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:54.600 maybe you'd like to join me on the podcast. Send 15 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.159 us an email again, it is the fact Hunter atmail 16 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:02.359 dot com. The fact Hunter at mail, not gmail dot com. 17 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.159 Or go to our new website truthernet dot com. And 18 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.319 it's okay if you put in the facttunter dot com, 19 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:10.239 it's still going to take you to the new website. 20 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:13.439 There's a contact there. You can put in your information 21 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:15.280 and I'll get it and I'll get back to you 22 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:20.239 within twenty four hours. Again, questions, comments, concerns, or more importantly, 23 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:22.400 if you'd like to come on and share your thoughts 24 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.000 about a particular rabbit hole that you've been, you know, 25 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.599 down for a long time. And again, you don't have 26 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.719 to have a website or a podcast. If you have 27 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:35.359 knowledge that you feel that should be shared with the masses, 28 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:39.040 well connect with me and let's share it with the masses. 29 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:44.640 Today we're going back almost thirty years. And it's interesting. 30 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:48.719 I went back into the vault, the fact Hunter vault, 31 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:53.400 and it's been almost five years since we last formally 32 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:59.920 discussed this subject. Twa flight eight hundred and what a month. 33 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:04.280 Monster of a rabbit hole it truly is, you know, 34 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:10.680 in the realms of rabbit holes right between Waco, Oklahoma 35 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:18.280 City nine to eleven, the housing market COVID in the 36 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.199 Summer of Love in twenty twenty. This is a huge 37 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:27.360 one because of the ramifications of what probably happened. Right, 38 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.759 this is a big deal. And today we're going to 39 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:33.360 talk about the official narrative, some of the theories that 40 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:39.039 surround it. Going to read an article from Jack Cashell. 41 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:42.039 He's the gentleman who wrote the book TWA eight hundred, 42 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:46.039 The Crash, the cover up, and the conspiracy. He sold 43 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:48.759 a ton of those books. It's done pretty well and 44 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.840 it's an interesting look at it. And then we're going 45 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:56.439 to in closing, Sam Princeford an article over a decade 46 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:01.240 ago and it's basically the top ten facts that you 47 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:04.759 need to know about TWA eight hundred, and then we 48 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:09.199 will close with about a ten minute audio clip from 49 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:12.919 Democracy Now and I think it was from twenty thirteen. 50 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:15.120 And again it is these. 51 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:19.000 People who are originally part of the investigation that were 52 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.240 seeking a new probe. As you know, over the years, 53 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.840 all of this new evidence has emerged. But let's get 54 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:30.000 to the official narrative first, right, it was a trans 55 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:33.560 world a Lines Airlines sparked me Flight eight hundred TWA. 56 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.840 Flight air eight hundred was a scheduled international passenger flight 57 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:41.159 from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City 58 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:45.159 and again it was headed to Rome, Italy, with a 59 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:49.680 stopover at Charles dgaul Airport in Paris, France. It was 60 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:54.759 July seventeenth, nineteen ninety six, again twenty nine years ago. 61 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.560 It was eight thirty one pm Eastern time. And remember 62 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:03.280 It's July's northeast, so it was pretty It was dusk 63 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.360 for sure, and it was about twelve minutes after takeoff. 64 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:15.319 This Boeing seven forty seven exploded and crashed into the 65 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:20.279 Atlantic Ocean near East Morches, New York. Obviously here in 66 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.480 the United States. All two hundred and thirty people on 67 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:29.600 board died in the crash. It is the third deadliest 68 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:36.920 aviation accident in US history. Right, investigators from the NTSB, 69 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:42.000 the National Transportation Safety Board, traveled to the scene, arriving 70 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:47.160 the following morning. And remember that night into the morning, 71 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:52.199 there was rampant speculation that a terrorist attack was the 72 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:59.240 cause of the crash. So unfortunately, in addition to local authorities, 73 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:05.120 the FBI and the Navy joined in the operations. Now, 74 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:09.800 the problem when I said the Navy is that one 75 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:16.199 of the big theories is the Navy was involved in 76 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.480 this disaster. And in the clip we will play at 77 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:22.319 the end of the podcast on democracy now you'll hear 78 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.519 original audio from twenty nine years ago with a reporter 79 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:30.879 flipping out saying, how in the world can you let 80 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:36.079 the Navy be involved with this process when they are 81 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.759 a potential part of the criminal. 82 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:45.000 Part of it. Right, the criminal portion of it. That's like, 83 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:46.639 if I. 84 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.439 Commit a crime and they allow me to be a 85 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.600 part of the investigative process, I'm going to cover my tracks. 86 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:59.000 And that's probably sadly what probably happened. Sixteen months later, 87 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:05.839 this Joint Task Force, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, announced 88 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:09.480 that there was no evidence of a criminal act that 89 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:15.759 had been found and they closed their investigation just sixteen months. 90 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:21.360 And as you will hear, there was a ton of 91 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:28.240 firsthand eye witnesses that saw something this flash of light. 92 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.839 Hit the airplane. 93 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:35.639 But again, when we look at all of these investigations, 94 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.240 whether it's nine to eleven Oklahoma City. 95 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:40.519 John F. 96 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:47.759 Kennedy's assassination, they leave out things that would inconvenience the truth. 97 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:48.120 Right. 98 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.279 So you know, this four year investigation concluded with the 99 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:57.800 approval of the Triple the Act what do they call it, 100 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:02.160 the Aircraft Accident Report, the AAAR on August twenty third, 101 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:05.480 two thousand and it ended at the time was the 102 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:10.680 most extensive, complex and costly air disaster investigation in history 103 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.120 up to that time. Now, obviously nine to eleven would 104 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:20.600 dwarf this. Now, the report's conclusion was that the probable 105 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.000 cause of the accident was the explosion of flammable fuel 106 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:31.600 vapors in the center fuel tank. Again, although it could 107 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.720 not be determined with certainty, the likely ignition source was 108 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:40.399 a short circuit. So again it's another one of these 109 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:46.360 magic bullet theories, right. They claimed that problem with the 110 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:51.560 aircraft's wings wiring pardon me, were found, including evidence of 111 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:58.920 arcing in the fuel Quantity Indication system. The FQIS on 112 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:03.120 flight eight hundred is known to have been malfunctioning. The 113 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:06.800 captain remarked about crazy readings from the system about two 114 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:13.040 minutes and thirty seconds before the aircraft exploded. And then, 115 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:17.160 of course, as in every type of disaster, whether it's 116 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:24.480 the Challenger or this, they had these new requirements that 117 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:30.160 were developed for aircraft to prevent future fuel tank explosions. 118 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:37.039 That meant new contracts, so once again they benefit from 119 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.960 these type of things. So you know, there's the official narrative. 120 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.120 The crew was led by a fifty eight year old captain, 121 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:49.320 Ralph G. Kovorkian, who had flown for TWA for thirty 122 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:52.720 one years, and he was previously in the US Air 123 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:58.320 Force before that, so you know, a well seasoned pilot 124 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.519 of close to nineteen thousand hours right. The flight engineer 125 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:08.720 was Richard Campbell sixty three. He'd also been with TWA 126 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:11.919 for thirty years and the Air Force for twelve years 127 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.919 prior to that, and had also logged eighteen thousand, five 128 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.600 hundred flight hours. So again, these guys were not fresh 129 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:25.000 out of flight school. They were seasoned veterans. So you know, 130 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:28.320 the chances of it be pilot air were slim to none, 131 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.639 and I'm pretty sure slim had left town. 132 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:33.279 Now. 133 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:39.080 The aircraft involved was manufactured in nineteen seventy one, doesn't 134 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.840 matter what the serial number is. It had completed close 135 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:49.120 to seventeen thousand flights ninety three thousand. This is interesting 136 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:54.159 for all you people like myself who like to catch numbers. 137 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.120 Ninety three is a big number, ninety three thousand, threeh three. 138 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:02.840 There's thirty three hours of operation and was powered by 139 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:10.960 four Pratt and Whitney Turbofan engines. Again, the passengers two 140 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.039 hundred and twelve came from about close to ten countries. 141 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.759 You had forty passengers from France, one fifty two from 142 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.120 the United States. Then you had a smattering of folks 143 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:26.200 from Portugal, Sweden, Spain, Norway, Italy, Israel, Germany, and the 144 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:32.679 Ivory Coast. Now, there were a few notable people on 145 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:38.000 this flight. You had Michael Breistroff, he was a French 146 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:41.200 ice hockey player. You had Marcel Daddy, a French guitarist. 147 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:49.480 David Hogan was an American composer Jed Johnson, which is 148 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:54.720 interesting Andy Warhol's partner of twelve years. And then you 149 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.799 had pam Lynchner, who was an American crime victim's right 150 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:09.759 advocate and former twa flight attended. This one was always 151 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:15.039 interesting to me. You know, here's Pamela Sue Rogers Lynchner. 152 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.679 She was this real estate agent from Houston, and she 153 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:26.960 promoted the pame Lyincher Sexual Offender Trafficking and Identification Act 154 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.639 of nineteen ninety six bill. And she was also again 155 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:36.759 she was a former flight attendant. Her story goes when 156 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.279 she and her husband Joe I'm sorry, let me back 157 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:44.440 up a bit, they bought a vacant house to sell 158 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:47.519 in nineteen ninety so she was flipping houses, right, So 159 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:51.000 when her and her husband Joe visited it to meet 160 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.639 who they believe was a prospective buyer when they were 161 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.600 going to flip it, a workman from a cleaning company 162 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:01.399 named William David Kelly appeared and told them that he 163 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:05.120 forgot to clean under the sink. Later he tried to 164 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.440 tarrow for clothes. Joe held him as she called for help. 165 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:14.360 It turns out that Kelly was already had been a 166 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:20.399 convicted rapist and child molester. He had a knife and 167 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:25.000 duct tape on him in his pickup truck. So again 168 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:30.759 his plan was to abduct Pamela Rogers. He ended up 169 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.360 plea bargaining and received a sentence of twenty years for 170 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.960 aggregative kidnapping with an intent to commit sex assault. And 171 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.799 you know she was very active in promoting these things 172 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:52.159 in the Greater Houston area. And then of course, boy, 173 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.440 I mean you talk about after dealing with all that, 174 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:02.480 to die in this plane crash, it's just unthinkable, right. 175 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:03.080 You had a. 176 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:09.799 German fashion photographer, Rico Pullman. You had Courtney Johns, the 177 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.600 sister of Jeff John's and the inspiration for DC Comics 178 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:14.960 superhero star Girl. 179 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:16.120 No idea who that is? 180 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:23.480 Anna Marie Shorter, who was Wayne Shorter's second wife. Wayne 181 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:27.919 Shorter very I assume he passed away a couple of 182 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.759 years ago, but a fairly famous jazz musician. 183 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:33.120 And then Jack. 184 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:37.360 O'Hara, who was at one time the executive producer of 185 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.840 ABC Sports. He perished with his wife and daughter. They 186 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.440 were actually going to France to supervise the coverage of 187 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:48.879 the Tour de France. And then there was also sixteen 188 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.399 students and five adult chaperones from the French Club of 189 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:59.919 Montersville Area High School in Pennsylvania. So, you know, when 190 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.399 you get into the personal stories, you know, sometimes we 191 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:06.000 just hear numbers, but when you get into the personal 192 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:13.159 stories really brings a reality to it, right, And sometimes 193 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:17.200 we forget that when we're going down these rabbit holes, 194 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:21.480 the personal side of them. But if you go back 195 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.279 and remember, and I really urge everybody to go back, 196 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:30.759 there's still quite a bit of videos from the news, 197 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:34.200 like when you guys heard me do the radio show 198 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:39.279 and the show leading up to Oklahoma City. You can 199 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.159 put like April nineteenth, nineteen ninety five in the news 200 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.159 and find all these original news the local news briefs 201 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.159 from that day. And you should do the same with 202 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.679 twite twa flight eight hundred, because there was a lot 203 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.120 of angry families and I had kind of forgotten about 204 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:01.240 that before I did the research. There was relatives of 205 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.639 the passengers and crew, as well as the media. They 206 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:11.399 were all gathered at the Ramata Plaza JFK Hotel and 207 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.200 many waited there for quite some time until the remains 208 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:20.600 of their family had been recovered, identified and released. That 209 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.440 hotel would earn the Moniker Heartbreak Hotel in its role 210 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:29.559 of hosting the families of victims for these airline crashes. 211 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:37.159 So these grieving relatives became angry because TWA was delaying 212 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.879 the confirmation of the passenger list, There was conflicting information 213 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:47.399 from different agencies and officials, and then of course there 214 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:52.159 was a big mistrust of the recovery operations priorities. Well 215 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.440 what does that mean, Well, it should lead you to 216 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:01.759 believe that at that point, when they're primary concern should 217 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:08.039 have been rescuing and recovery, they were more worried about 218 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:09.679 covering up what happened that day. 219 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:11.000 Now. 220 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.200 Remember, although at that time the NTSB Vice chairman Robert 221 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:19.559 Francis stated that all bodies were retrieved as soon as 222 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:24.000 they were spotted right, and that wreckage was recovered only 223 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.879 if divers believed that victims were hidden underneath. Many of 224 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:34.559 the families were suspicious that investigators were not being truthful, 225 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:43.120 and they were withholding information, and then this anger started 226 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.679 to change focus from them or move, I should say 227 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:55.519 to the medical examiner, Charles Wetley, as these recovered bodies 228 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:00.840 were backlogged at the morgue. Now, I'm not sure if 229 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:07.279 this is deserved anger or more frustrated anger. Obviously, anytime 230 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.640 when there's you know, just something a disaster of this 231 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.839 size of an event, you're going to get overloaded. 232 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:18.440 And I'm sure he was. 233 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:21.880 You know, many people just wanted to say, uh, they 234 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.279 were killed in an air crash, get the names out 235 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.480 and release it. But you know, maybe he was doing 236 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.599 his job and trying to see if there was any 237 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.880 other evidence that could have benefited the investigation. Right, But 238 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.960 he was under constant pressure to identify victims with minimal delay. 239 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:38.640 Right. 240 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:41.640 You get both sides of it, right, of course, But 241 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.680 you know, some of these pathologists were working literally twenty 242 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.720 hours a day. They were working long days to help 243 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.119 get everyone identified. 244 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:52.319 And now for. 245 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:58.960 The the reality of a disaster like this, many of 246 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.480 the victim's body were intact, but there was also many 247 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:12.480 who were burned, fragmented, skeletonized, decayed, and it necessitated DNA 248 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.160 testing and dental records. So obviously that's going to take 249 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.240 a little bit of time. This is you know, the 250 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.920 mid nineties, DNA and all that stuff was still relatively new. 251 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.599 And again, the primary objective was to identify all remains 252 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.279 rather than to perform detailed forensic autopsies, though the thoroughness 253 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:36.640 of the examinations was highly variable. Right, Ultimately, the remains 254 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.000 of all two hundred and thirty victims were recovered and identified, 255 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.960 and the final victim occurred more than ten months after 256 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.640 the crash. Now, the other issue you have, and we 257 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:54.720 saw this in Waco, right, the lines of authority were 258 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:58.799 not clear. And you know every big blockbuster movie we see, 259 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:02.000 you know, Johnny Sheriff gets to the crime scene and 260 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:06.119 he's doing his thing and I'm Officer Smith from the CIA. 261 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.200 We got it from here, dag nab at CIA, and 262 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.319 you know, they all shucks and walk away and the 263 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:17.759 CIA takes over. However, when you have multiple federal agencies, right, 264 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.880 there was different agendas. There was a different culture between 265 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.799 the FBI and the NTSB, and it resulted in discord. 266 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.160 So you know what, most people believe that the people 267 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:35.480 on the ground who belonged to the NTSB were thoroughly 268 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:43.720 ingrained in ensuring that this investigation was carried out properly. Well, 269 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:48.559 it will shock you that the FBI was trying to 270 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.000 wrap things up and look at certain things and overlook 271 00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:00.720 other things, right, But then you all so here, Well, 272 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.799 it was the FBI was assuming that a criminal act 273 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:05.400 had occurred. 274 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:07.279 They saw the. 275 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.440 NTSB as indecisive. So it depends on who you ask, 276 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.160 what story you read, and what agent to be. Frank 277 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.680 was involved in these conversations. But by all accounts, the 278 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:27.480 FBI and the NTSB did not get along. Now again, 279 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:39.680 there were considerable discrepancies as to the fine details in this. However, 280 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:46.200 one thing that was not a discrepancy most most had 281 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.400 seen a streak of light moving to a point where 282 00:20:50.440 --> 00:21:01.119 a large fireball appeared. Right, and you can find, you know, 283 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.839 a treasure trove of information on the FBI's website, and 284 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:13.200 by carefully using keywords in yandex you know, on the 285 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.960 evening of seventeen July nineteen ninety six, blank they of 286 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.960 course they blank out. The people's name was that the 287 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:26.200 Westhampton Yank Yacht Squadron on an outside covered porch between 288 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.640 eight thirty and eight forty five blank saw what she 289 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:35.160 initially thought was a boat flare. She saw the flare 290 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.000 when it was already at a midpoint in the sky. 291 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.519 She was facing south overlooking Morches and I'm sorry if 292 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:47.000 I'm saying this wrong, Morich's Bay and Dune Road. As 293 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:50.119 she faced south, She estimated that the flare would have 294 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:54.640 been at about eleven o'clock. She did not see where 295 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:58.319 the flare originated from, but thought that it was as 296 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:04.119 close as the bay. The flare continued ascending for about 297 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.319 three seconds, but she took her eyes off it as 298 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.720 she looked for a boat in the bay to where 299 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:11.400 it may have came. 300 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:16.039 You know where it might have come from, she said. 301 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.599 The flare was red orange in color with white in 302 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.720 the middle, elongated in a shape like a baseball bat. 303 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.359 She did not see any smoke or anything trailing the flare, 304 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:28.799 and again, if it was a missile or a rocket, 305 00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.440 you wouldn't have seen it because they moved so fast. 306 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:34.759 It's not like a contrail from a plane, but advised 307 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.440 that she was focusing on the light. The light seemed 308 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.160 to be moving away from her as if further south. 309 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.359 As the flare ascended, it suddenly turned a deeper orange 310 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.400 and got larger but not exactly round in shape, and 311 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:49.440 did not hear anything. 312 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:50.039 At that point. 313 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:53.480 Slowly the entire body of fire descended and became more 314 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:57.079 misformed in shape. She described the shape as being like 315 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:01.519 a pulled tooth. Expected the fire to descend into the bay, 316 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.960 but lost sight of it as it descended much farther 317 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:06.480 south beyond dune Road. 318 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:07.200 There was a. 319 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.559 Smoke trail that fired the mass as it descended downwards. 320 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.839 So she described, you know, some type of missile speeding 321 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.720 three seconds into the air, hit the plane, plane explodes. 322 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.599 And it fell into the water. 323 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:33.440 And the problem once again, the FBI strikes again. The FBI, 324 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.880 I should say, there were eighty FBI agents who conducted 325 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:48.240 interviews with tons of potential witnesses. Problem is there were 326 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:54.839 no verbatim records of the witness interviews produced. Instead, the 327 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.759 agents would conduct interviews with people, they would write it 328 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.359 in summary and submit it. It wasn't John Doe one 329 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:05.559 two three Smith, Avenue, Portland, Oregon seven seven four eight 330 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:10.160 five official statement. I swear to this to be true 331 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:10.920 when they sign it. 332 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:12.519 Right. 333 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:14.799 In the military, we called them sworn statements. 334 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.319 Now it was just agent Smith walked up to somebody 335 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:21.440 who witnessed it, and he would just take notes and 336 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.200 at the end of the day he would just write 337 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.880 up kind of just you know, this is why I 338 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:28.799 spoke to today, and this is kind of the general 339 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.839 information we got. One guy told me this. One guy 340 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:34.519 told me that made it impossible for follow up conversations. 341 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.480 Witnesses weren't even asked to review or correct their summaries. 342 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.880 So within days of the crash, the NTSB announced its 343 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.680 intent to form its own witness group and to interview 344 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.839 witnesses to the crash. Well, the FBI raised concerns about 345 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:01.480 NGOs right, these non governmental parties and the atfp's investigation 346 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:08.720 having access to this information making it hard for prosecutoral 347 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.640 duties and resulting from multiple interviews from the same witnesses. 348 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:19.599 So as always, the NTSB deferred and ended up staying 349 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.079 out of it and let the FBI control, you know, 350 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:31.000 the criminal portion of this. And what a huge, huge 351 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.359 gaff by the And listen, I heard the interviews. You 352 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.960 can't blame the families. They were there that even back then, 353 00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.200 thirty years ago, there was some pretty darn good journalists 354 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.400 who were asking hard questions. But like everything else, they 355 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.799 play the waiting game, and we eventually move on to 356 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.119 the next thing, right, because what was it four months 357 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:57.359 before Clinton's election? And boy, if it would have got 358 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:01.359 out that the US Navy or inserts whoever it was 359 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:11.759 here took out a American jetliner, it would have been 360 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.240 a different game. A lot of people would have lost 361 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.240 their jobs. The same with Oklahoma City. The truth got 362 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.920 out about those other two bombs that they found in 363 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.279 that building, and they played off. They only found one 364 00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:26.319 and it was oh, it was a training aid because 365 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.640 and again, as I wrote on my substack today, anybody 366 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.920 who's been in the military for a second knows that 367 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:35.119 if something is live, you don't write training aid, and 368 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.960 if something is a training aid, you don't write live 369 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.799 on it. It never ever, ever, ever happened safety one 370 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.240 oh one. 371 00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.559 Right, So. 372 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.799 I guess now's a good time to get into the 373 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:57.079 different theories of it. The first one is the explosive 374 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:03.640 revenues explosive residues. As wreckage was recovered, preliminary testing indicated 375 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:09.559 the presence of explosive residue on three samples of material 376 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.480 from not one, not two, but three separate locations of 377 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:19.519 the recovered airplane wreckage. These samples were submitted to the 378 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.799 FBI's laboratory in DC, which determined that one sample contained 379 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.519 traces of RDX. I'm not going to try to say 380 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:35.279 the real name. Another was nitroglycer and that should have 381 00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:42.880 been a showstopper because nitroglycerin, as you guys know, is 382 00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:48.319 a highly explosive liquid, and it is used in various 383 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:56.799 types of explosives, including those found in warheads. Right, that 384 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:02.240 should have been an absolute showstopper. You had tw chief 385 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:07.359 pilot Robert Stacey, who was participating in the official investigation 386 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:14.079 as a representative of TWA, came he became convinced that 387 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.599 a reddish brown substance observed on the backs of recovered 388 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:23.319 passenger seats was suspicious and of course another indicator of 389 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:32.079 residue or rocket fuel. Then you had identified radar tracks, 390 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:36.000 which was another big one and one of the first 391 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.559 widely reported criticisms of the official investigation was by former 392 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:46.720 White House Press secretary and ex Senator Pierre Salinger, who 393 00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:50.759 held a press conference in con France on November seventh, 394 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:56.359 nineteen ninety six. Interesting, when was the election in ninety six? 395 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.839 Did he wait? Was election? Real times? 396 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:00.640 Cheer? 397 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.839 November fifth? So the election. 398 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.519 Was November fifth, nineteen ninety six. Bob Dole, good old 399 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:22.400 Bob Dole, and Ross Perot. That that's interesting. Even if 400 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.079 Ross Perot wasn't running and you gave Dole that eight million, 401 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.640