Speaker 1: Hi, This is Charles Probot from Boca Raton, Florida, and
Speaker 1: I play at the Boca Ratone Resort and Club.
Speaker 2: This is called.
Speaker 1: Smarter Number ninety eighty.
Speaker 2: Joy the podcast. If you go to ask a touring
Speaker 2: pro do you misread greens that cause miss putts? Their
Speaker 2: typical answer is going to be occasionally, but not often,
Speaker 2: And then other pros will reply, you know, I never
Speaker 2: miss reading green because I work harder than all others.
Speaker 2: That translation to that answer is I memorized each putt
Speaker 2: for each tournament four days times four pin placements, times
Speaker 2: four directions times eighteen holes. So there's some brainwashing that
Speaker 2: goes on into their head, this kind of green reading
Speaker 2: brainwashing that continues to this day. And frankly, I don't
Speaker 2: blame the tour pro for succumbing to this brainwashing since
Speaker 2: you're standing over putts with zero confidence. If you don't
Speaker 2: have confidence in your green read, that will affect your
Speaker 2: putting stroke negative.
Speaker 1: Egos. The Expert green Reading operating system that's based in
Speaker 1: math with surveyor Andrew Walters. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories,
Speaker 1: tips and insights from great golf minds to help you
Speaker 1: lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 2: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.
Speaker 2: Andy, great to be here, Fred.
Speaker 1: Congratulations, you're the first episode of our twentieth year. We've
Speaker 1: just completed nineteen years of the podcast. Wow, and this
Speaker 1: is our first one. Yeah, so nine and eighty and.
Speaker 2: Then when they were doing podcasts that far back.
Speaker 1: That was the problem nobody did. But I love to
Speaker 1: talk talking about all the way back. I've always loved
Speaker 1: to talk about putting because there's always one more thing
Speaker 1: we can learn. And I think the most important thing
Speaker 1: is they don't all drop, no matter how good you are,
Speaker 1: they don't all drop, right, or do they?
Speaker 2: Well, I would argue with that it was ten feet
Speaker 2: that should all drop, especially for a tour pro because
Speaker 2: they're the best of the cream of the crop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the percentage of even the tour pros from
Speaker 1: ten feet is what about fifty percent?
Speaker 2: And guess what, Fred, that's all going to change? Why
Speaker 2: Because Egos Expert Green Reading operating system is pure math.
Speaker 2: It is it's infallible in a sense that if you
Speaker 2: do something wrong, it can be corrected. And tour pros
Speaker 2: take two thousand green reads around in a season, which
Speaker 2: is what the book and other things I said. And
Speaker 2: you can imagine how much expertise they're going to have
Speaker 2: with that many green reads, and how good they're going
Speaker 2: to get. And if they ever have a problem, they
Speaker 2: just give me a holler and then we go to
Speaker 2: that exact spot and I'll show them what they did wrong,
Speaker 2: because it's math based, math pace.
Speaker 1: And is that your background is the math based not
Speaker 1: the golf base.
Speaker 2: Exact side of it exactly? Well, of course they intertwine. Sure,
Speaker 2: my background is where, Oh I had this eight foot
Speaker 2: putt that I had money on. You know, they had
Speaker 2: a five dollars nassau. I make it. I went twenty
Speaker 2: five dollars eats, money for the kids and all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. Now I've had this putt. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've been playing this eighteenth green for fifteen years and
Speaker 2: I had said, oh, that's going to do a little
Speaker 2: slight left break and I hit it and it fell
Speaker 2: off the table like it broke like it broke off
Speaker 2: the table to the right, and I go, whoa, So
Speaker 2: I walk off the green. I'm all mad. We'll find
Speaker 2: somebody to teach me green reading expert green reading, Well,
Speaker 2: who would that be? Somebody that knows topography, land contours, maps,
Speaker 2: ground ground slope. While beinging to realize as a civil engineer,
Speaker 2: professional engineer, that's what we start with every project that
Speaker 2: we start, A bridge, a building, a road, it's all.
Speaker 2: It's all ground slopes and all of that. Then I
Speaker 2: began to realize I was the expert. So I sat
Speaker 2: down and I figured it out. And I haven't misread
Speaker 2: a green since.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, oh, so you say you were the expert
Speaker 1: because you are a civil engineer.
Speaker 2: That's correct. Absolutely, you apply math to projects to fix it. Yes,
Speaker 2: I am a professional civil engineer. Okay, So, and so.
Speaker 1: I want to get rid of this myth immediately if
Speaker 1: in fact it is a myth or it's a fact.
Speaker 1: And that is everyone says, oh it always breaks to
Speaker 1: the ocean, Oh it always breaks to the mountains. Oh
Speaker 1: is that or is it just you know? From what
Speaker 1: I've learned in talking to golf course architects, they tell me, no,
Speaker 1: it breaks. It's irrigation. It's all about irrigation, and it
Speaker 1: breaks to where the water is going to flow.
Speaker 2: Uh. All one hundred percent nonsense. Matter of fact, I
Speaker 2: teach that you completely ignore any of that stuff. You
Speaker 2: don't want outside influences to bother what you do, getting
Speaker 2: the exact break in front of you. So architects. Of course,
Speaker 2: most of the time you know the the drain flow
Speaker 2: of a green is going to be from a mountain
Speaker 2: to an ocean, but not all the time. So so
Speaker 2: it's just total myth. Matter of fact, I found most
Speaker 2: of all of green reading is voodoo nowadays. You know
Speaker 2: there there are there are basically four types of green reading,
Speaker 2: all right, and all of them don't work. And you
Speaker 2: can see it on TV all the time. And these
Speaker 2: are the professionals speece all the best. And the four
Speaker 2: types of green reading is one is staring. You walk
Speaker 2: all around it, you look at it. But that's actually
Speaker 2: what causes the problem. Optical illusions are the only reason
Speaker 2: you would ever missread a green period. Optical illusions and
Speaker 2: staring is the actual cause of the problem. The other
Speaker 2: way to read a green is somewhat common these days
Speaker 2: is foot field well, foot feeling. It doesn't work. It's
Speaker 2: no math behind it. And the you know I can
Speaker 2: say that is because you go find an algebra book,
Speaker 2: a trig book, a calculus book. Nowhere are you're going
Speaker 2: to find in there a chapter on feeling. It's just
Speaker 2: not going to happen. And then there's map contours, which
Speaker 2: have been banned anyway, so math contours are and then
Speaker 2: again they have no math either that untrained person can't see.
Speaker 2: And then the other way is memorization. So if you memorize,
Speaker 2: you know you you have if your tour pro you
Speaker 2: have four tournaments, I mean four days of a tournament,
Speaker 2: four sides of the green, different distances and all that,
Speaker 2: and and basically it becomes unless you're rain Man or something,
Speaker 2: it becomes untenable. So you know. So anyway, all four
Speaker 2: of those ways don't produce any results that egos can
Speaker 2: do because they have no math. They have you just
Speaker 2: can't do it. So we're still in the primitive age
Speaker 2: of green reading until of course this comes out.
Speaker 1: Okay, and how long have you been practicing egos and egos?
Speaker 1: We should just make clarify what your system is, the
Speaker 1: expert green reading operating system.
Speaker 2: I've been doing it since nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: Okay, so and you haven't. You haven't missed a read since.
Speaker 2: That is correct, except except for when I make an
Speaker 2: error myself. You know, I don't. I don't play as
Speaker 2: often as I used to. So then I got to
Speaker 2: go back and see what I did, what I what
Speaker 2: I missed.
Speaker 1: Up, So that then we're then we're just talking about
Speaker 1: distance control.
Speaker 2: And speak control. The two or a perfect late read
Speaker 2: is for a put that. Yeah, a perfect aim line
Speaker 2: is a putt that goes in at the speed that
Speaker 2: you want it to go in. Do you want to
Speaker 2: diet in the hole? Do you want to ram it
Speaker 2: into the hole? Or do you want to have it
Speaker 2: if it has a cellophane top on top of it,
Speaker 2: it'd go twelve inches past. So speed and aim and
Speaker 2: are tied together. They're married together. So EGOS will give
Speaker 2: you that exact line for any way you want to
Speaker 2: hold the putt. And it's all done on calibration at
Speaker 2: the practice screen, which is detailed in my book.
Speaker 1: Okay, uh, and again tell everyone the name of the
Speaker 1: book so we can find it.
Speaker 2: That's a good good point.
Speaker 1: Do you not remember the name?
Speaker 2: Well, come on Math and Analysis Green Rating Methodology on
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour today and tomorrow veos.
Speaker 1: Okay, it available exactly, and I'll put that in the
Speaker 1: show notes. And what is it available on Amazon or wherever?
Speaker 1: Get books?
Speaker 2: Okay, Amazon, Amazon, Kindle and it's twenty seven books for
Speaker 2: a lifetime skill.
Speaker 1: I like to say, yeah, well, then that's a worthwhile investment,
Speaker 1: I would think, especially if your frustration is there and
Speaker 1: everyone has room to become a better putter. So, you know,
Speaker 1: we can talk about the hardware all we want, but
Speaker 1: until you learn how to read a green, it really
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the hardware is. Sometimes that's right.
Speaker 2: If you haven't read the green read properly, you're putting
Speaker 2: stroke matters not right.
Speaker 1: And that would be where you start, as long as
Speaker 1: you can get on the starting line that you intend.
Speaker 2: At the speed you intend.
Speaker 1: At the speed the line and the.
Speaker 2: Speed speed because they are married together. And my contention
Speaker 2: is tour pros one hundred and fifty five t off
Speaker 2: every weekend and they're the best in the world. And
Speaker 2: it's my contention that those tour pros can do that.
Speaker 2: They can hit the ball where they want to at
Speaker 2: the speed they want to all the time, or they
Speaker 2: wouldn't be the top one fifty five in the world.
Speaker 1: Andy, tell me about the people that you've worked with.
Speaker 1: Have you been working with PGA tour pros or college
Speaker 1: players or corn fairy? You know, the guys trying to
Speaker 1: get their way up to the tour.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and it's a kind of a
Speaker 2: little bit of a long answer.
Speaker 1: And taking time.
Speaker 2: And I have talked to a bunch of people about it,
Speaker 2: including some teachers and stuff like that. But what I'm
Speaker 2: finding is that there is a tremendous bias out there
Speaker 2: about green reading, and when you present something that you
Speaker 2: say is going to work, there's a tendency that they
Speaker 2: don't believe it. But I've done it to some tour
Speaker 2: pro teachers, doesn't matter if I name maybe Derek u
Speaker 2: Wada and you know he absolutely gets it and loves it.
Speaker 2: Another one is Blair Philip another work with Barney Adams
Speaker 2: and you So I've get some X tour pros that
Speaker 2: just absolutely get it because again they're mathematically inclined. But
Speaker 2: if you go if you go to ask a touring pro,
Speaker 2: for example, you know, do you misread greens that cause
Speaker 2: miss putts? And you know their typical answer is going
Speaker 2: to be occasionally but not often, all right, And then
Speaker 2: other pros will will reply, you know I never misread
Speaker 2: because I work harder than all others. Well, it took
Speaker 2: a while, but that translation to that answer is I
Speaker 2: memorized each put for each tournament four days times four
Speaker 2: pin placements, times four directions times eighteen holes. So there's
Speaker 2: some brainwashing that goes on into their head, and I
Speaker 2: call it this kind of green reading brainwashing that continues
Speaker 2: to this day. And frankly, I don't blame the tour
Speaker 2: pro for succumbing to this brainwashing since you're standing over
Speaker 2: putts with zero confidence. If you don't have confidence in
Speaker 2: your green read that that will affect your putting stroke negatively.
Speaker 2: So that brainwashing is there. So I have that bias
Speaker 2: that I have to overcome when I show them that
Speaker 2: it'll actually work, and that's been very difficult to do.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm in the middle of a topic,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to get it in front of a
Speaker 2: guy like Bryson, who I know has mathematical proclivity and
Speaker 2: will literally, you know, when I get halfway through a
Speaker 2: twenty minute demo, he's going to come and grab me
Speaker 2: and thank me, as did Blair, Philip and a couple
Speaker 2: other gentlemen that I know of, because they just get it.
Speaker 2: So that's I guess back to your question. Yeah, I have,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately most young expiring collegiates and everything, and even
Speaker 2: tour pros themselves say, if I don't see it being
Speaker 2: used on TV, I'm not going to get involved. And
Speaker 2: it's an incredible bias that I had no idea existed
Speaker 2: until the years I started getting into this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've had I've come across that so much myself.
Speaker 1: I recently went, yeah, I in a sense that you
Speaker 1: know here as we talked about this. I've interviewed hundreds
Speaker 1: of golf instructors, and I've learned a lot from the
Speaker 1: golf instructor perspective. But when I go out to play
Speaker 1: with some people at a country club who play every
Speaker 1: week with the same four guys in the same course
Speaker 1: every week, and I start sharing some of the things
Speaker 1: I've learned, They're like, Nah, yeah, no, doesn't exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're wrong. I don't see it. So I get I
Speaker 1: get feel like I'm banging my head against the wall
Speaker 1: sometimes too. That's why I pretty much just like to
Speaker 1: ask the questions and learn from people like you.
Speaker 2: Well, I again, the people with mathematical privity. I've developed
Speaker 2: a putter that you use with the system. It's a
Speaker 2: surveying instrument putter, and I've sold five hundred of those
Speaker 2: putters worldwide, all right, So they're people that get it,
Speaker 2: and it's just unfortunately I don't have anybody on the
Speaker 2: tour pro circuit yet that will do it and use it.
Speaker 2: But I'm totally convinced if I can get somebody out there,
Speaker 2: it's going to take their pprs down into the twenty
Speaker 2: sevens or maybe even lower, which is always top five.
Speaker 2: And from there, I'm convinced it's going to go viral.
Speaker 2: And especially a tour pro because he's, as I explain
Speaker 2: in my book and all, he's going to get ten
Speaker 2: more looks at making Birdie. This is with the average
Speaker 2: tour pro, you know, and making Birdie. Then he has
Speaker 2: now with using egos, especially with taking two thousand egos
Speaker 2: Green reads in this season, how expert he's going to get.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing is, you know what, even
Speaker 2: if a tour pro doesn't even want to do it,
Speaker 2: because I don't see John Daily doing doing this, and
Speaker 2: I don't see Bubb Watson do it, So why don't
Speaker 2: you just tell you caddy to do it? All right?
Speaker 2: So the caddy becomes really really good at it, so
Speaker 2: and I think the he'll he'll start to have trust
Speaker 2: in his caddy as the ball disappears all the time,
Speaker 2: you know, So there's that option as well. But it
Speaker 2: just hasn't happened yet. So I'm hoping it will happen,
Speaker 2: you know, in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope it happens for your lifetime as well.
Speaker 1: So I am uh and have been for four or
Speaker 1: five years now a big fan of the lab golf
Speaker 1: putters that are lie angle balanced versus toe or heel balanced,
Speaker 1: and they claim to have a lot of science behind
Speaker 1: that as well. The putter that you have developed, what
Speaker 1: makes it unique.
Speaker 2: If you were to take I call the putter the
Speaker 2: psn I egos, which stands an acronym. I'm big into
Speaker 2: the acronyms putting and surveying instrument. Instrument is that if
Speaker 2: you take your fingers and to put your fingers out
Speaker 2: like you're pointing, and then put your putter over the
Speaker 2: over it and balance it, you'll come to some tow
Speaker 2: hang on most putters, you know, forty five thirteen degrees whatever. Well,
Speaker 2: the PS and I egos you can put it in
Speaker 2: any direction, the toe point in any direction and it'll
Speaker 2: just stay there. So it's not a I call it
Speaker 2: an all balanced putter. You know, there are face balance
Speaker 2: putters that will if you do what I just said
Speaker 2: that the face will will be looking straight up to
Speaker 2: the sky axis. One makes a putter that the it'll
Speaker 2: be one hundred percent, or it'll be ninety degrees pointing
Speaker 2: down at the ground and the lab that way.
Speaker 1: We don't put that way.
Speaker 2: All that's true, but the perfect I've sold quite a
Speaker 2: few putters just because they love the feel of an
Speaker 2: all balanced putter. But the tricker with an all balanced
Speaker 2: putter is that it becomes a surveying instrument and it
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter where your toe is pointing. And so
Speaker 2: that's that's why I sell that. But you can use
Speaker 2: your own putter if you just know what position to
Speaker 2: hold it every time. And I've been doing battle with
Speaker 2: the USGA, and it says, well, if you mark the
Speaker 2: putter with a mark slot, you don't put a little
Speaker 2: dot and center it and all that. But the USGA
Speaker 2: has sent me back, Oh, this has been about ten
Speaker 2: years of correspondence. He keeps sending back. I don't know
Speaker 2: that's illegal because you can't put any marking on a
Speaker 2: putter other than decorative or to align the face the
Speaker 2: when you're setting the putter down. So I've been I've
Speaker 2: been through all that as well. Now the lab putter,
Speaker 2: that is a little different creature. And I do know
Speaker 2: an awful lot about putters. I believe that they they've
Speaker 2: got a certain angle to the ground, a lie, as
Speaker 2: you would say, and they make the putter balanced in
Speaker 2: that lie, which is the lie where in the swing
Speaker 2: plane you have. So that's what makes them special. Again,
Speaker 2: you would have to take that putter and try and
Speaker 2: find out what when you hold it doing egos, what
Speaker 2: makes it a true perfect vertical in other ways of
Speaker 2: surveying instrument, I haven't got one yet, but I've got
Speaker 2: about every other putter known de mand.
Speaker 1: So andy, I'm not mathematically inclined, I may say I'm
Speaker 1: even math challenged. So how can I make egos work
Speaker 1: for me? I'm the creative type.
Speaker 2: Well that's a great question. Then the book goes through
Speaker 2: the three steps that you just need to do men
Speaker 2: memorize in order to get into the proper positions to
Speaker 2: get this angle gap I call it right in front
Speaker 2: of your eyes on every putt, and the three steps
Speaker 2: invoke the math that is involved. So I've got two
Speaker 2: pages in the book of the actual math tenth grade
Speaker 2: geometry proven as you were to see by a professor.
Speaker 2: But you don't need to know that it is. All
Speaker 2: you have to do is know how to stand, where
Speaker 2: to stand, and how to hold a putter. Just those
Speaker 2: three things and you can become an expert green reader immediate.
Speaker 1: Okay, how to stand, where to stand, and the third one,
Speaker 1: how to hold the so grip is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: The grip. Yeah, yeah, how to hold the putter. You
Speaker 2: have to you have to put a putter out in
Speaker 2: front of you. And I don't like to use the word,
Speaker 2: but everybody else does, like you're plumb bobbing. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so again, and before I get into that, let me
Speaker 2: just explain what I call plumb bobbing. I mentioned the
Speaker 2: four ways of green reading. Well, one of those ways, excuse.
Speaker 1: Me if it's for me, just take a message.
Speaker 2: One of those methods is what I consider staring with
Speaker 2: the putter in front of you, and it is that
Speaker 2: that's what I call plumb bobbing, because the putter in
Speaker 2: front of you does absolutely nothing if you don't know
Speaker 2: all the other steps on how to stand or where to.
Speaker 1: Stand, let's let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Love this, okay, let's start with the first The first
Speaker 2: step is too and let me.
Speaker 1: And it's how to stand. As you're saying, the first step.
Speaker 2: The first step is how to stand. So the first
Speaker 2: step on how to stand is you you need to
Speaker 2: take a wide stance at which gets your spine perpendicular
Speaker 2: to the ground slope, all right, And this is where
Speaker 2: we're going to create an angle gap in front of
Speaker 2: your in front of your face with the putter and
Speaker 2: some imaginary lines that you're going to draw. So wide stance,
Speaker 2: don't tilt your head or your torso or anything in
Speaker 2: any direction. And you wouldn't know which way to tilt
Speaker 2: it on subtle slopes anyway, so you can, yeah, here
Speaker 2: we go. So anyway, that's how to stand. And it's
Speaker 2: important that you just stand the same way every time
Speaker 2: so that if there are any quirks about you having
Speaker 2: one leg short or another, it'll all come out in
Speaker 2: the calibration. So that's how to stand. The second thing
Speaker 2: is where to stand. Well, you need to stand where
Speaker 2: the ball will break. So when you see people plumb
Speaker 2: bobbing and the ball is in front of them, that's
Speaker 2: a mistake right away because you don't put backwards. So
Speaker 2: you need to go stand up around or just slightly
Speaker 2: in front of the ball with the ball between your legs,
Speaker 2: spread your legs, stand correctly, and that's and that's where
Speaker 2: you are going to get the read or the slope
Speaker 2: of the ground as the ball travels store as a hole. Now,
Speaker 2: let's say in my book, covers a ten foot putt
Speaker 2: to win the US Open. So you go there, You
Speaker 2: take a stance right in front of the ball, right
Speaker 2: at the ball, take a read. Then in the minute
Speaker 2: you take a read, you're going to have an angle gap,
Speaker 2: and from the practice screen calibration you're going to know
Speaker 2: exactly where to aim that ball for the speed you
Speaker 2: like to make the ball. Okay, now the question is
Speaker 2: will it continue to break that way all the way?
Speaker 2: Does the slope remain the same. So, since you were
Speaker 2: going to win the US Open with this ten foot
Speaker 2: you go up to the hole, right at the hole,
Speaker 2: with the hole right between your legs, and take the
Speaker 2: same read, same do everything the same way as you
Speaker 2: did over the ball, and you look and you see
Speaker 2: an angle gap. If it's the same angle gap, you
Speaker 2: know that the break is perfect. That it'll stay the
Speaker 2: same and that your read is perfect. If, for example,
Speaker 2: though you take a read and there is no angle gap,
Speaker 2: there's a the putter goes right through your first object.
Speaker 2: You know that it is flattened out at the hole.
Speaker 2: So you need to adjust, and you need to adjust
Speaker 2: your aim line a little less, and of course adjusts
Speaker 2: for speed as well. It all becomes a real feel
Speaker 2: at that time, a proportional feel. That's what I call it.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you explain to me what you mean by
Speaker 1: angle gap?
Speaker 2: Okay? When you are at geometry, well, when you're standing
Speaker 2: at the appropriate place, and you're standing where you're supposed
Speaker 2: to and you're looking at the cup, all right, So
Speaker 2: you run a ground line right straight to you're growing
Speaker 2: the middle of your growing an imaginary ground line. And
Speaker 2: when you get about three two or three feet in
Speaker 2: front of your on that ground line, you'll see a
Speaker 2: second object, or you'll see a little object on the
Speaker 2: ground that you're running this ground line. Or it could
Speaker 2: be a spike mark, if be a piece of dirt,
Speaker 2: it could be anything. So you take the bottom, you
Speaker 2: take your upholding it correctly and at arm's length, and
Speaker 2: you put the very bottom of the putter onto the
Speaker 2: onto that spike mark or whatever, and then you look
Speaker 2: up to find the cup, and the cup is off
Speaker 2: to the left. You know you have a right breaking putt,
Speaker 2: all right, And how much of that gap you see
Speaker 2: between the center line of the cup and the shaft,
Speaker 2: you know exactly where the aim line is going to be.
Speaker 2: It may be three more of those gaps, it may
Speaker 2: be four more of those gaps, or maybe just two
Speaker 2: more of those gaps. That's your aim line for the
Speaker 2: speed you prefer to hold the putt, and that when
Speaker 2: you get good at it, that is instantaneous. And all
Speaker 2: that becomes because you've got your spine and you've created
Speaker 2: this angle gap with your body, and then you use
Speaker 2: you threw in the true vertical putter to expose that
Speaker 2: ankle gap right there in front of your face every time,
Speaker 2: and you instantly know from calibration how much that ball
Speaker 2: is going to break in a perfect a line. Now, again,
Speaker 2: this goes back to the question you asked about the
Speaker 2: mountain over here or the ocean over here? Do I
Speaker 2: take in account any of that? And you go, no, bet,
Speaker 2: you best not even look at it, because if you
Speaker 2: do look at it, and you take your read and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden it shows an absolute straight putt,
Speaker 2: and you're going, no, it can't be because I see
Speaker 2: it falling from the mountain to the ocean. You know.
Speaker 2: Now you've got doubt in your mind, all right, and
Speaker 2: you never need that. So I suggest don't even look
Speaker 2: for the mountain or the other because because then the
Speaker 2: way you don't even get confused. But over time when
Speaker 2: you start making all these putts, so there goes you're
Speaker 2: not going to care what the tobography is. So all
Speaker 2: of that what I just said, guess how fast that
Speaker 2: is and how quick that is. We just eliminated slow
Speaker 2: play on the on the on the course for all
Speaker 2: tour pros.
Speaker 1: What about you know, if it's a double breaker, they
Speaker 1: haven't it's going to break one way and then as
Speaker 1: it gets closer to the hole, it's going to break
Speaker 1: a different way.
Speaker 2: How do you read those great question? So you uh uh,
Speaker 2: you take you so you got a twenty footer and
Speaker 2: it's in the book as well. You you take your
Speaker 2: first read right over the ball, all right, and you
Speaker 2: got a nice little angle gap, you know, and you
Speaker 2: go okay, and you know, of course the putters over
Speaker 2: here the cups over here, which means left break. So
Speaker 2: you got your boom boom boom. You got the line.
Speaker 2: You already know that, but you just want to confirm
Speaker 2: that it's the same. So you go halfway and you
Speaker 2: take another read and all a sudden, holy cal the
Speaker 2: putters on the other side of the hole, and you
Speaker 2: got and this ground here is right is left, the
Speaker 2: right break just the opposite of which you just took
Speaker 2: it there, all right, So now you're going, whoa, this
Speaker 2: is something. So then you go up by the hole
Speaker 2: do it again, and you see that continued left break,
Speaker 2: you know, or the right break, the opposite direction breke.
Speaker 2: So then you adjust your original break and you hit
Speaker 2: it appropriately, and you can practice that again and get
Speaker 2: good at that on the practice green as well. Do
Speaker 2: you follow all that? Well?
Speaker 1: You ask me, if I follow all that? All of it? No,
Speaker 1: some of it? Yeah.
Speaker 2: If I had an illustration right in front of me,
Speaker 2: you would be able to follow it a lot.
Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, I think that's why we should remind people
Speaker 1: to buy the book. If this isn't all intriguing to you,
Speaker 1: buy the book, it's going to be worth the investment.
Speaker 1: And it's not even.
Speaker 2: Well you're going to be able to pay for the investment.
Speaker 2: Just in four man scrambles or Lauderdale's or whatever you call.
Speaker 2: I never lose one of those. And the reason is
Speaker 2: is because I insist on putting first, and if I
Speaker 2: don't make it, you didn't waste the three other guys,
Speaker 2: you know, putting it up there pretending they know which
Speaker 2: way the ball's going or this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So when you're at your peak of playing and you're
Speaker 1: using your ego system, how many putts around are you
Speaker 1: looking at for yourself? I'm sure it's not eighteen?
Speaker 2: Well it should be, but then again.
Speaker 1: I should be that.
Speaker 2: I don't enough to get into that expertise. My fellow
Speaker 2: players when I was at the peak at playing, they
Speaker 2: basically said, Andy, you know, you don't really hit the
Speaker 2: ball that good. You know, you know, you know what
Speaker 2: Basically what they were saying is, I'm not on the
Speaker 2: greens is much g I rs so you know I
Speaker 2: get it up. If I get it up and then
Speaker 2: six feet it's just dead that you know, I mean?
Speaker 1: And I don't miss huh, you don't miss six footers,
Speaker 1: you don't miss ten foot.
Speaker 2: At the peak when I was playing, I never never
Speaker 2: even thought about missing a six footer. It was a
Speaker 2: matter of fact. They kick it back half the time.
Speaker 2: They knew it was good.
Speaker 1: That was a gimmey a ten gimme.
Speaker 2: Six footers are gimmy with this, will they will be
Speaker 2: gimmes with two proas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we would hope so yeah, And you talked
Speaker 1: about how they would say, well, if it's not on TV,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to use it. That's kind
Speaker 1: of like what they're talking about Ame Point.
Speaker 2: I would think, well, aame points on TV. It's worked
Speaker 2: his way into it even though it doesn't work. But
Speaker 2: that just shows the desperation that tour pros have. I mean,
Speaker 2: Jim Nance absolutely hates it. He's come out with articles
Speaker 2: can't stand it when you turn your back to the
Speaker 2: cup and then it's slow and it's goofy looking and
Speaker 2: there's no math behind it. But other than that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just desperation. They don't they don't trust, they're staring
Speaker 2: at it anymore. So they're trying to find some alternative
Speaker 2: and somehow aim Point got out there with Adam Scott
Speaker 2: a few others. I think Adam was one of the first.
Speaker 1: And then getting it on TV, getting these and why
Speaker 1: do you think it doesn't work?
Speaker 2: A point? Yeah, well again, I'll go right back to
Speaker 2: the there's no math your foot feeling and you're going
Speaker 2: to have to persent some kind of four percent something
Speaker 2: and then you relate that to fingers. But what book?
Speaker 2: What math book do you go to? Calculus, trig algebra,
Speaker 2: differential equations, all of which I tech as a civil engineer.
Speaker 2: Where where is there a chapter on feeling? There isn't
Speaker 2: There is no math. It takes math to work.
Speaker 1: Right, But you're also introducing your body.
Speaker 2: The body the math that's correct. Your body is sets
Speaker 2: up the structure, sets up your spine, that creates an angle.
Speaker 2: All right, So that's math anyway.
Speaker 1: Now, But I'm I mean you're you're introducing your body
Speaker 1: in the stroke, not in the setup. I mean, what
Speaker 1: you're explaining to me seems like all part of the setup.
Speaker 1: It is, and not necessarily we're.
Speaker 2: Talking expert green reading. Now, if you can't hit the
Speaker 2: ball where you want to hit it, at the speed
Speaker 2: you want to hit it, that's a whole other subject, okay,
Speaker 2: And it's my contention that there isn't a two pro
Speaker 2: they can't do that ninety nine point nine percent of
Speaker 2: the time that can hit that, they hit it where
Speaker 2: they want to hit it, at the speed they want
Speaker 2: to hit it, almost all the time.
Speaker 1: I see, I see. So you you said you don't
Speaker 1: like the word plumb bobbing.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Why is why is that taboo here?
Speaker 2: Because it does nothing. It's basically it's staring, just holding
Speaker 2: the putter up. The best you could ever get out
Speaker 2: of it is maybe if you look at the cup
Speaker 2: and the cups at a big slant, you can see
Speaker 2: that there is a big slant that the cup may
Speaker 2: help you a little bit when the ball starts to
Speaker 2: get close to the hole, but has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with what the ground slope is outside, you know, twenty
Speaker 2: feet away. And people have looked at my system and said, oh,
Speaker 2: that's just plumb bobbing, and then they assume they even
Speaker 2: know what plumb bobbing is. Have you ever had anybody
Speaker 2: explain to you what plumbbobbing was? Well, I got eighty
Speaker 2: eight pages in a book. It shows you exactly what
Speaker 2: egos is.
Speaker 1: Uh huh uh huh, I got it. So we talked
Speaker 1: about how to stand and where to stand. But you
Speaker 1: said the third part was how to hold the grip.
Speaker 2: That's correct, how to hold the putt.
Speaker 1: How to hold the putter when you're doing the egosystem,
Speaker 1: explain that to me, please.
Speaker 2: Okay, in doing the egosystem, you have to create a
Speaker 2: true vertical same thing as if you had a strain
Speaker 2: on a plumb weight. All right, you want this thing,
Speaker 2: this putter, to be an absolute, true vertical in front
Speaker 2: of your eyes. Can you create the angle gap that
Speaker 2: your spine is at. Okay, So you hold the putter
Speaker 2: at the bottom of the grip very lightly, and you
Speaker 2: put it at arm's length, and you hold it this
Speaker 2: way the same time, and then you run that line,
Speaker 2: that imaginary line to the second object and you put
Speaker 2: the bottom of it on there to create the c
Speaker 2: So that you need to make your putter a true
Speaker 2: visual perfect as you look at it. In essence, it
Speaker 2: becomes a serving instrument.
Speaker 1: So and and you're you're doing this so it's exactly
Speaker 1: perpendicular to the to the ground too.
Speaker 2: It's exactly vertical to the world, exactly vertical to the
Speaker 2: world visually from where you're looking at it. Okay, it
Speaker 2: might not be that way any other way. So a
Speaker 2: toe hag putter you know that has a certain toe
Speaker 2: hang you if you're going to hold it, it'll it'll
Speaker 2: actually veer off to the right or left as it
Speaker 2: balances each other. So you don't have a perfect vertical
Speaker 2: on most toe hag putters. You but in certain directions
Speaker 2: or in a certain dimension, when you get to toe
Speaker 2: at a certain degree, it will be what you call
Speaker 2: center balance vertically, and it will. You can use your
Speaker 2: own putter if you know exact position to hold it
Speaker 2: and get it into. But again, you know, when you
Speaker 2: got like a two inch break or a two and
Speaker 2: a half inch break, you need the most the best
Speaker 2: surveying instrument putter you got uh or you need to
Speaker 2: you get the putter right every time. And so if
Speaker 2: a tour pro complains he's missing, he's missing short putts
Speaker 2: by that don't break much. The first thing I'm going
Speaker 2: to do is saying, well, we need to work you
Speaker 2: get your putter in the proper position.
Speaker 1: So I'm a little confused about the math part, sure,
Speaker 1: and I'm confused about math period, but when it comes
Speaker 1: to the ego system, I'm confused about where the math
Speaker 1: part falls in.
Speaker 2: Well, the math part is tenth grade geometry.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's why I okay, I never did that.
Speaker 2: Most people memorize it, take a test, and then forget
Speaker 2: about it if they even take it right. But that's
Speaker 2: a high school of course. So the math part is,
Speaker 2: if I'm watching you do it, and if you're not
Speaker 2: creating the angles and the gaps, you know, instantly I
Speaker 2: can fix it. I can say, oh, you're not holding
Speaker 2: your putty this way, you're tilting your body when you're standing,
Speaker 2: or I can say you're not standing in the proper position,
Speaker 2: you know, And it's all just instantaneous to fix, and
Speaker 2: we can keep fixing it until you get it right.
Speaker 1: All right. Well again, the book is called Math and
Speaker 1: Analysis Green Reading Methodology on PGA Tour Today and Tomorrow
Speaker 1: by Andrew J. Walters. Pe available that will put a
Speaker 1: link for it in the show notes, and hopefully it's
Speaker 1: going to help you out a lot. It's fascinating to me,
Speaker 1: and if you do it right, there's no question it's
Speaker 1: going to help.
Speaker 2: Right Andy, Oh, it'll make you the best putter in
Speaker 2: your group by far, nobody else is doing it. And
Speaker 2: it'll take a person like Bryson and make him the
Speaker 2: best putter in the world. And that's a guarantee. It's
Speaker 2: in the book.
Speaker 1: Well, I'd love to tell you that Bryson listens to
Speaker 1: this podcast, but i'd be lying. I cannot imagine that
Speaker 1: he does. And it was great talking to you. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate the education and best of luck with this method.
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Fred, I appreciate you too,