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Zip recruiter The Smartest way to hire. 54 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.840 Norko eighty tells the story of how five heavily armed 55 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:14.120 young men led by an apocalyptic born again Christian attempted 56 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:15.879 a bank robbery to turn into one of the most 57 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.919 violent criminal events in US history, forever changing the face 58 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:25.479 of American law enforcement. Part action thriller and part courtroom drama, 59 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:29.240 Norko eighty transports the reader back to the southern California 60 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:35.680 of the seventies, an era of predatory evangelical gurus, doomsday predictions, megachurches, 61 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:39.120 and soaring crime rates, with the threat of nuclear obliteration 62 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.879 blooming over it all. In this riveting true story, a 63 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.759 group of landscapers transformed into a murderous gang of bank robbers, 64 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.360 armed to the teeth with military great weapons. Their desperate 65 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:56.240 getaway turned the surrounding towns into war zones. When was over, 66 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.759 three were dead and close to twenty wounded. A police 67 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.680 held helicopter was forced down from the sky, and thirty 68 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:06.159 two police vehicles were destroyed by thousands of rounds of AMMO. 69 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.080 The resulting trials shook the community to the core, raising 70 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.639 many issues that continue to plague society today, from the 71 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.720 epidemic of post traumatic stress disorder with within law enforcement, 72 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:22.439 to religious extremism and the militarization of local police forces. 73 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.759 The book that we're featuring the seating is Narcot eighty, 74 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.120 The true story of the most spectacular bank robbery in 75 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:33.639 American history, with my special guest, journalists and author Peter Hulhan. 76 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:36.839 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 77 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:37.879 agreeing to this interview. 78 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.279 Peter Hulhan, Thanks Dan, thanks for having me on. 79 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:44.439 Thank you very much. 80 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.199 This is one incredibly exciting book. I have to say, 81 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:54.000 let's start right off from the beginning, as we described 82 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:58.519 in the introduction or I did. Let's talk about what 83 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:03.480 somebody in California, what these two people, what many people saw. 84 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:08.720 Besides joining George Wayne Smith and Christopher Harvin. But what 85 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.839 other people saw for people born in the fifties, as 86 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:18.360 you write, tell us about the violent crime rates, tell 87 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:22.279 us take us back to southern California, the nineteen seventies 88 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:26.959 and up to this date in nineteen eighty what do 89 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:27.920 these people see. 90 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:34.319 Sure, both the time and the era in which this 91 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.120 or the time and the place in which this happened 92 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:44.600 are had an influence on bringing this about this bank robbery. 93 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:47.720 The bank robbers are all from Orange County, California, suburb 94 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.519 of Los Angeles, and they came of age in the 95 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:55.160 nineteen seventies. And for George Wayne Smith, there were a 96 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:58.399 number of things that influenced him and kind of propelled 97 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:04.560 him towards this bank robbery. One was the very aggressively 98 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.079 evangelical born again Christian movement that began in Orange County, 99 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.000 California in the seventies and then swept throughout the country. 100 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.160 It was known as the Jesus Movement, and it was 101 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:19.279 these were youth ministries that were revolved around the Book 102 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.319 of Revelation and End Times theology. And at an early 103 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:27.360 age George became involved in Cavalry Chapel and at that 104 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:32.959 time cavalry was really based on based on the rapture 105 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:37.759 and you know, the second Coming. So George at an 106 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:43.000 early age believed that the apocalypse and the cataclysmic events 107 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.279 and the collapse of society that would lead up to 108 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:50.040 it was imminent. And Cavalry Chapel really pressed the uh 109 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:54.000 pressed the idea that the rapture could come at any moment, 110 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.879 and that was certainly for George to have been in 111 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:02.240 Orange County as a the young man in the nineteen 112 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:08.480 seventies was really really brought that about. The other was 113 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:10.639 that you know, if you if you're in that front 114 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.480 mind frame and then you're on the lookout for current 115 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:21.360 events that you can match up with revelation prophecy, Southern 116 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.439 California of the nineteen seventies and most everywhere in the 117 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.279 nineteen seventies was a place to sure could find it. 118 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:31.600 There were a lot of doomsday scenarios that were banded 119 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:34.800 around in the seventies, whether it be asteroid strikes or 120 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.240 massive earthquakes or population bombs. And also there were, as 121 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.560 you say, you know, crime rates that would be almost 122 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:48.680 unimaginable today, and a lot of the ideologies of the 123 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.920 of the nineteen sixties really turned ugly in the seventies, 124 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:57.480 recreational drug use became drug abuse. You know, free love 125 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:03.800 became unwanted pregnancies. There was some really startling events like 126 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:11.040 the Jonestown mass suicide, the Symbionese Liberation Army. There was 127 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.800 a lot of revolutionary groups, especially in the early seventies 128 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:17.480 that were bombing things and trying to bring down society. 129 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.240 So when George looked out at the world, he could 130 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.879 see a lot of events in the United States that 131 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:29.839 looked like social collapse, Babylonian style social breakdown, and also 132 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:32.679 internationally towards the end of the at the end of 133 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.000 the seventies and into the yearly eighties, there was the 134 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.679 Iran hostage situation. There was war in the Middle East, 135 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.879 and as you say, the thing, the existential threat hanging 136 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:47.000 over all of it is really nuclear war. And right 137 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:49.080 out of high school, George Wayne Smith went into the 138 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:51.799 army and he was trained as an artillery man and 139 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.480 stationed in Germany, and he was trained on tactical battlefield 140 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.000 nuclear weapons. And that was what really made the nineteen 141 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:05.759 seventies dangerous, especially for the possibility of nuclear war, was 142 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:10.320 this proliferation of battlefield nuclear weapons. You know, once you 143 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:12.879 once you use one of those, it's not hard to 144 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:17.960 imagine escalating into the intercontinental ballistics missiles that would bring 145 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.399 along obliteration. So when George looked out at the world, 146 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.279 a lot of things matched up, and as in terms 147 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.960 of how it all might end, nuclear war was something 148 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.320 that was not hard for him to imagine and frankly 149 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.399 not hard for others to imagine. And I'll just briefly 150 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.879 talk about George's George was the one who really planned 151 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.559 this bank robbery and recruited the others. He had a roommate, 152 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.000 they owned a house together, Christopher Harvin and Christopher Harbin 153 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.840 was a bit of a survivalist, and his idea of 154 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.679 how the how the end might come for the and 155 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:59.000 the collapse of social order and lawlessness was those doomsday 156 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.759 scenarios I had meant and earlier, but of a kind 157 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.679 of natural disaster or man made rather than something that 158 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.120 would come from God. And also included a nuclear war, 159 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.200 but you know, asteroid strikes and particularly and things like that, 160 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.759 population bombs. But really he believed in something called the 161 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.679 Jupiter Effect, and the Jupiter Effect was a book that 162 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.080 was about a alignment of planets that was going to 163 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.399 come in nineteen eighty two did come than which the 164 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.600 planets would be aligned all on the opposite side of 165 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:34.120 the Sun, and it would affect gravitational pulls, it would 166 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:38.559 trigger volcanoes, earthquakes and things like that. And both George 167 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:45.320 and Chris their dates and George's was the apocalypse or 168 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.679 the rapture would come before the end of nineteen eighty 169 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:51.720 and for Chris, as I say, it was looming ahead, 170 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:54.360 just a year and a half ahead. So sorry, it's 171 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.879 a rather long answer, but it's certainly all those different 172 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:04.480 factors fed into George Wayne Smith and Christopher Harvin kind 173 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:09.960 of looking that they needed to prepare for lawlessness, social 174 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:14.879 breakdown in which only the well armed and well funded 175 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:16.440 and well prepared which survived. 176 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:21.080 You talk about the difference in the characters between Chris 177 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:26.200 Harvin and George Smith, certainly in high school and then 178 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.639 in the military. Tell us about that before you talk 179 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.039 about the situation that they found themselves. Both had met 180 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.759 at the landscaping gig that they had, but now what 181 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.080 was their current situation, So tell us about that. 182 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.080 Yeah, there were other factors that kind of triggered them 183 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:49.039 to take this action. At the time, they really were 184 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:54.159 two different personalities, and they had both suffered downturns in 185 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.960 personal fortune leading up to this. They had both lost 186 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:04.000 their jobs as landscapers for the City Parks Department. They 187 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:08.120 had breakups in their marriage, they were running out of money. 188 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.559 George is George had this kind of psychological makeup that 189 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:19.919 may have destined him to, you know, be involved in 190 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:22.080 some sort of event in which people would hurt or die. 191 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.440 And that was he had this grandiosity about him, this 192 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.360 idea that what he wanted and what he needed was 193 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.440 more important than everyone else. He wasn't the guy who 194 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:34.600 set out to kill people. In fact, George had kind 195 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:37.240 of channeled this grandiosity and this idea that he could 196 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:40.600 save everybody around him for the good. Up until then, 197 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:44.720 everyone around him would say that he's a great guy. 198 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.000 I mean, and he was, I mean up until then. 199 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.360 He's a guy to help you out do anything, lend 200 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.840 you money, save your soul. He was pretty aggressively evangelical himself, 201 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.559 and so when he looked at his life and saw 202 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:00.080 what you and I might think of as a a 203 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:03.960 downturn in a temporary downturn in fortune, he looked at 204 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.679 as a absolute disaster. It was a cognitive dissonance between 205 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:12.200 the person he thought he was destined always to become 206 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:15.320 the great person and a guy who was pretty much 207 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:17.440 down on his luck, had lost his family, was about 208 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:19.919 to lose his home and everything else. And these guys 209 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:21.919 are in there. You know, they're twenty seven and twenty 210 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.679 eight years old, so that's their age when they start 211 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:27.080 to take this on him, when they commit this crime. 212 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.559 Chris Harvin's just kind of a troublemaker, you know, the 213 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.759 guy kid would do anything on a dare. He was 214 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:37.039 always getting trouble at school. Nothing horrendously malicious, nothing violent. 215 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.000 Neither of them had any criminal record, those two. And 216 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:45.840 then they had this downturn in fortune and in their 217 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:49.559 personal lives, combined with this idea that, you know, you 218 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.639 could have a cataclysmic events looming in the future, and 219 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.480 they thought they needed some money to address that and 220 00:13:57.799 --> 00:13:58.799 prepare themselves. 221 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:04.559 Now you talk about their compounds at Mirror Loma, tell 222 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.799 us the proximity to Los Angeles, but also tell us 223 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.000 about the nature of this little community and the different 224 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.720 and the distance between Norco and other communities. Tell us 225 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.000 where it's situated, and tell us a little bit about 226 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:21.720 this Mirror Loma and my idea that it's somewhat of 227 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.759 a compound in their minds. 228 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.799 Yeah, it's a modest compound. The robbery itself took place 229 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:33.159 in Riverside County, California, and eventually went into the pursuit 230 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.440 and went into San Berndino County. This is an area 231 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:40.000 known as the Inland Empire. It's roughly forty miles east 232 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.039 of Los Angeles, still part of the La Metro area. 233 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.399 Really gritty, blue collar area, a lot of warehouses. There's 234 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:52.879 a steel mill out there, the Kaiser Steel Mill. Miror Loma. 235 00:14:53.120 --> 00:15:00.320 Is a semi rural, a gritty neighborhood of it was 236 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.399 unincorporated area, so that the uh, the zoning laws weren't great. 237 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.279 Kind of a some ramshackle houses out there, but mostly 238 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:15.679 a relatively quiet, uh you know, suburban neighborhood. Again you 239 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:21.399 call it probably lower working class, blue collar. And they 240 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.799 had bought a house there and uh together and uh 241 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:30.360 it was a modest stucco ranch with a just as 242 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.399 they say, a small compound, because it was really just 243 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:35.919 just a little over a quarter acre. And uh, but 244 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.960 as they as they prepare not just for the bank robbery, 245 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.000 but again to uh to put them in a position 246 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.559 to survive the apocalypse. They they began to put barbed 247 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.960 wire up around the perimeter, uh walls of their backyard 248 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.399 and uh put nailing carpet tacks so if anybody tried 249 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.879 to come over that perimeter, they tear their hands up. 250 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.480 And they built they dug a pit and a tuddle 251 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.879 that went from their backyard underneath their garage so they 252 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.519 could either escape the house or use it as a bunker. 253 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:13.200 And they also they'd always they were guys who liked guns, 254 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:17.360 but they really began to ramp up and kind of 255 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.000 put together an arsenal at that point. 256 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.200 So they were on as you write, they're in desperate 257 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:28.519 need of money. But Chris and George, even though they're 258 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.799 really good friends and they have a lot of things 259 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:35.000 in common and they have this shared apocalyptic future belief, 260 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:42.000 tell us about George's initial plan and introduce Russell Harvin 261 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.720 and Manny Dogado. Who are these people and where did 262 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.039 they come from? Who brings in who? 263 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:54.600 Certainly George Wayne Smith first had an idea that he 264 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:58.279 was going to rob a Denny's restaurant and Chris said, well, 265 00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.879 if you're gonna Chris Harvin said, well, if you're going 266 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.720 to rob anything, you might as well rob a bank. 267 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.799 And then George began to start to plan that, and 268 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.160 he he got more and more serious, the more and 269 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.119 more desperate he became. And Chris really was kind of 270 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:17.240 reluctant about it. But George is a very persuasive and 271 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:21.519 very articulate guy, and so he began to really pressure 272 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:25.160 Chris to do this, to rob a bank. And I 273 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:29.319 mentioned George's grandiosity, well that extended to his plan to 274 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.640 rob the bank. Chris also mentioned that, you know, he 275 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.039 wasn't going to do it unless they were unless they 276 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.279 were well armed when they went in. But George put 277 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:43.039 together a rather elaborate plan in which he would address 278 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.519 every contingency and that included being armed to the teeth 279 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:50.720 with civilian versions of military grade weapons. These are you know, 280 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:56.279 AR fifteen's Heckler HK ninety ones, HK ninety threes. These 281 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.200 are two twenty three caliber weapons, and George was back 282 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.240 in a three oh eight, which is an absolute cannon, 283 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:08.440 and thousands of rounds of ammunition, high powered high capacity magazines, 284 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.079 forty round magazines that they take together jungle style, So 285 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:14.480 there was three of them take together. You could pop out, 286 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.839 flip over put it back in. So they started to 287 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.359 put together this grand plan. But you know, you get 288 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.920 a grandiose plan like this, an elaborate plan, and also 289 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.519 almost guarantees that something will go wrong, and it did. 290 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:31.559 They needed decided they needed five people to pull this 291 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:36.240 bank robbery off, and so Chris Harvin recruited his younger brother, 292 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:40.079 Russell Harvin, and Russell was just he's going nowhere in 293 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.240 his life. He was diabetic, but he was just kind 294 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:48.680 of hanging out at home working odd jobs, smoking a 295 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.240 lot of weed. And when his brother asked him if 296 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:54.519 he wanted to do it, or told him he should 297 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.559 do it, Russ just kind of went along with it. 298 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.880 Russ didn't really think things through. Russell's about twenty six 299 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.720 years old at the time, twenty seven years old at 300 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:08.160 the time. Then George also recruits Many Delgado. Manny Delgatto 301 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.200 was only twenty one years old, and they knew each 302 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.200 other from again working as landscapers at the Parks Department. 303 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.640 And then Manny recruited his little brother, seventeen year old 304 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.359 Billy Delgado to be the getaway driver. And Manny and 305 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:26.640 Many and Billy were from very different backgrounds. They were 306 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.440 really from the barrio in Orange County, from really tough neighborhoods, 307 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:32.680 and they all had their kind of different reasons for 308 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.720 wanting to do it. Manny had one child and another 309 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.880 one on the way, his wife was nine months pregnant. 310 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.519 He felt he needed money. Billy had kind of a 311 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.720 hopelessness about him. He had rheumatwied arthritis and believed that 312 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:46.480 he wouldn't be able to walk past the age of 313 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:51.839 twenty five. And Russell Harvin somehow got in his head 314 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.799 that his diabetics, his diabetes would would doom him to 315 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.240 death before the age of thirty five. So they all 316 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.359 kind of felt like they had nothing to lose, kind 317 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.000 of a bit of a desperation about them. 318 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.839 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 319 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.960 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 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Applying the website for details. 341 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.039 It's also I know we mentioned it, but it's important 342 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.880 to know for our audience how much rejection these people 343 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.960 had from women that had their children in their lives. 344 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.680 Three out of the four that we just mentioned. Talk 345 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.480 about that a little bit because I think it's really important. 346 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:32.119 Yeah, they George is. All of them married very young. 347 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.000 But George married at age eighteen, right out of high school, 348 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.160 and that marriage quickly collapsed when he went off to Germany. 349 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:41.680 He was then married again to a woman who was 350 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.880 ten years older than him, and when they had a child, 351 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.680 really their marriage started to fall apart. George was still 352 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.839 concentrating on stockpiling weapons and talking about the end of 353 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.359 the world, and his wife was trying to raise a baby, 354 00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:01.279 and so that marriage also fell apart. Uh, just months 355 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.799 before the bank robbery. And again George had this view 356 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.359 of himself as he was going to save everyone around him, 357 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.079 that he was a really good and responsible guy, and 358 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.960 up until then he was and and couldn't understand why 359 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.240 this had happened. Christopher Harvin's married at age eighteen, and 360 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:22.839 by age twenty seven, he was his his marriage was 361 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:25.079 falling apart. He was not being able to see his 362 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.319 kid as much as he wanted to. Russell Harvin married 363 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.640 at age eighteen, and that wife ran off with another 364 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.400 woman several years later. You know, she was actually married 365 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:42.960 to another man and had had a had another a child, 366 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:48.039 and but russ still wore their wedding ring, and so 367 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.160 you know they were these guys were definitely kind of 368 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:55.720 broken hearted and and a lot of other bad things 369 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:57.400 happening in their lives. 370 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.559 You right about the incredible scene in this little place 371 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.759 at a place called Dave's where they get their weaponry. 372 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.640 I know you mentioned some of the incredible weapons that 373 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.720 they had that it's beyond hunting and beyond anything and 374 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:19.920 very very military type weaponry. But you talk about Dave 375 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.880 and this going back to Dave, so I think it's 376 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.000 very incredible cinematic scene in here. But tell us about 377 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.599 them going to get weapons and what is their idea 378 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.759 about spending the last bit of their money to get 379 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:34.480 these weapons. 380 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.680 Yeah, that's that's kind of one of the contradictions is 381 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.240 that they did take the last few thousand dollars they 382 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.200 had and started to ramp up. As I say, they'd 383 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.119 always had, you know, handguns around and nothing crazy, you know, 384 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:50.960 just kind of people who are they take them up 385 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.440 hunting and things like that. You know, George had a 386 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.720 carbine the same sort of he singles, you know, a 387 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.759 single shop. The weapons that they began to buy as 388 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:03.920 they moved closer to this were the again the military 389 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.880 grade weapons, civilian version, meaning they are semi automatic rather 390 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.160 than fully automatic. But they were just the all of 391 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.319 these weapons were legally purchased. They were not nearly as 392 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.559 prevalent back then as they are now. These semi automatic 393 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:25.519 which commonly referred to as assault rifles, and they were around. 394 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.960 They were legal, but they weren't, but they were not 395 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:32.039 nearly as prevalent. And Dave's gun Shop was just one 396 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:35.559 of the places they purchased it, and they would go 397 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.440 to different gun stores. But in the course of a week, 398 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.200 George Smith walked into Dave's I think it went three times, 399 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:50.680 and purchased two semi automatic weapons two twenty three and 400 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:55.119 AR fifteen and a Heckler in coch HK ninety one, which, 401 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:57.319 as I say, is a three eight and three eight 402 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.359 is around that three times as big as a as 403 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.599 a two twenty three. Not an animal in the world 404 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.000 that can't be brought down with one single shot from 405 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.359 a three to eight from a half mile away. And yeah, 406 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:12.599 the guy at Dave's was starting to wonder kind of 407 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.759 what was going on, and he joked to a semi 408 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:19.359 joked to George Smith, Gee, what do you need all 409 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:21.119 these for? Are you going to start a war? Rob 410 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.119 a bank? And George just laughed. 411 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.039 Right now part of the plan. Tell us about the 412 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.880 plan itself, what George had come up with, and what 413 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.160 did all agreed to, and then what do they do 414 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.200 in preparation? You talk about the anarchist cookbook that they 415 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.960 had access to. 416 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:43.640 Yeah, the other part of their arsenal, in addition to 417 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.519 each all five of them carrying one of these high 418 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.640 powered semi automatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, 419 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.480 is they used the anarchist cookbook to make homemade fragmentation grenades. 420 00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:59.319 He's a made out of beer cans with an incendiary 421 00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:02.559 device in the mid, a detonation device in the middle 422 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:05.400 and uh, and then shrapnel around them. And they tape 423 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:09.839 them up in the tap them up and mask electrical tape, 424 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.880 duct tape. And they had fashioned these with some of 425 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.279 them on dowels so that you could launch them out 426 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.319 of the barrel of a shotgun up to one hundred yards, 427 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.079 So you light the fuse and you can launch it 428 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:25.599 out of a shotgun, or you can just you know, 429 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.279 toss them. They had a couple dozen of these. They 430 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:35.559 had molotov cocktails, wine bottles filled with leaded gasoline. So 431 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.079 once they had all these weapons, and again all of 432 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.039 them were had one of these rifles on them. All 433 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:44.480 of them had one or more handguns on them. And 434 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:49.119 the plan was this and this is this is indeed 435 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:51.839 what they executed the day of the bank robbery, which 436 00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:58.880 was Friday, May ninth, nineteen eighty uh and in the morning, 437 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.200 three of them, the Delgado brothers and Russell Harvin, went 438 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.480 to a shopping mall twenty miles away, the Braham Mall, 439 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.599 and they stole a van at gunpoint, and they taped 440 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.359 up the owner, Gary Hackela, and put him in the 441 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:14.599 back of the van so he could not report it stolen. 442 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:21.599 They then Chris, Chris and George and met up with them, 443 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.559 and they still had Gary Hackeler taped up in the back, 444 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.000 and they went and put a diversion bomb underneath a 445 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:32.680 gas mane a mile away, and this was six beer 446 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:35.599 bottles filled with gasoline with a detonation device in it. 447 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.000 And they put that underneath a gas maine at a 448 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.839 behind a strip mall, and it did indeed go off, 449 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:48.799 but it did not ignite the gas maine. A passer 450 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:54.599 by put it out with a fire extinguisher. But the 451 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.440 plan was that, obviously that once that went off in 452 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:02.400 this massive explosion, every first responder, including every cop, would 453 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.279 be on their way to that and then they would 454 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:08.519 hit the bank. And the bank that George eventually chose 455 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.599 was the security Pacific Bank in Norco, California, which borders 456 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.039 Miura Loma. Again, we're talking just about the center of 457 00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:22.400 a riverside county or near a riverside city. And he 458 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.119 George chose his own bank, so the bank that they 459 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.599 robbed was George's bank. And they put on a ski masks, 460 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:36.640 military ponchos, and they waited for that that in Sandia, 461 00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:39.920 for the diversion bomb to go off, expecting to see 462 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:43.200 all the first responders head down Hamner Avenue towards there. 463 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.200 And when that didn't happen at about they waited till 464 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.759 about three thirty in the afternoon, and then they decided 465 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:49.960 to go ahead and hit the bank. 466 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:56.640 Anyways, let's talk about against an incredibly movie esque scene 467 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:02.240 in here where we have a depth Chuck Hill and 468 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.680 Andy Delgado and you provide the backgrounds for this and 469 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:08.599 such vivid characters emerge in this story, and a lot 470 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.640 of vivid characters emerge law enforcement and on the other side, 471 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.839 but much more in law enforcement rich characters. Let's talk 472 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:22.319 about these two guys and why they were right there 473 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:25.279 across from the bank doing what tell us about this 474 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:28.680 and the reactions from these bank robbers. 475 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:37.039 Sure, and The third Riverside County Sheriff's deputy patrolling Norco 476 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.519 that day was Glenn Blaski, and he's the first way 477 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.920 to encounter them. So it's Andy Delgado, Chuck Hill, and 478 00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:46.359 Glen Blaski. And yeah, I do you know, one of 479 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.680 the things that really interest me in this story, and 480 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.279 I do take a lot of time to paint the picture, 481 00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.559 is the backgrounds of these various law enforcement officers who 482 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.319 became involved in this and kind of the impact it 483 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:05.480 had after words. But you know, the bank robbery itself, 484 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:11.400 and this is George Russ, Chris and Manny Delgado crashing 485 00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.079 into this bank and ski masks and camouflage and Billy 486 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.559 Delgado is to get away drivers sitting outside in this van. 487 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.319 That actually is a lot of drama that goes on 488 00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:24.160 in that bank, as as goes on with pretty much 489 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:27.480 any takeover robbery where they put everybody down on the floor. 490 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.880 But you know, there's a lot of drama that unfolded 491 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:31.759 inside there. But for the most part, they got in 492 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:34.000 that bank and they got out in two and a 493 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.119 half minutes. However, when they were going in the bank 494 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.039 and their camouflage and their ski masks and rifles. They 495 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:43.359 were spotted by a bank teller at a bank across 496 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.640 the street. And it is that bank teller who called 497 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.799 the Riverside County Sheriffs to report a robbery at the 498 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:55.000 bank across the street. So it took about two minutes 499 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:59.359 before the dispatcher sent out the two to eleven robbery 500 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.519 in progress tone for the Security Pacific Bank, Fourth and 501 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:09.359 Hamner in Norco. And at that time, Glen Balaski, Deputy 502 00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.519 Glen Blaski just happened to be sitting at that intersection 503 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:15.240 looking straight at that bank. So if you talk about 504 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.079 some bad luck mixed in with some rather unfortunate planning, 505 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.240 that that's where it came in, was the fact that 506 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:27.160 Glen Blaski was right outside that bank. And and so 507 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:29.359 Glen Balaski, you can hear him on the radio traffic. 508 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:34.240 He reports himself on scene in less than two seconds 509 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.680 after that, after that dispatch, and and these are this 510 00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:40.960 is right as the bank robbers are coming out of 511 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:46.119 the bank. So Deputy Glen Balaski begins to take fire 512 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:50.319 almost immediately as he takes the turn, just to cruise 513 00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:53.640 into the bank and to see what's going on. And 514 00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:57.880 Blaski had so little time to really think through what 515 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.880 he was getting himself into, that he'd not processed that 516 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:03.599 this was a two to eleven in progress as opposed 517 00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:08.079 to a two to eleven silent and most silent alarms 518 00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:13.319 are you know, or you know alarms are false alarms 519 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.079 nine out of ten of them are. But this was 520 00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:20.799 a confirmed robbery in progress. And that's when when Glenn 521 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:23.160 Belaski came head to head with these bank robbers. 522 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.079 You talk about including this, I know this is a 523 00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:30.319 bit of a detour here for a second, but you 524 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:34.000 talk about the prevalence of armed robbery, bank robbery in 525 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:40.480 Los Angeles, how often that actually happened? And also, yeah, 526 00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:45.000 tell us first about that. How commonplace is this? 527 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:51.759 Yeah, Los Angeles for decades had been the what the 528 00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.880 FBI called the bank robbery capital of the world, and 529 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.279 one out of every four bank robberies in the United 530 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:02.400 States takes place within the jurisdiction of the Los Angeles 531 00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:08.880 Field Office of the FBI. And the reason is mostly freeways. 532 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.359 You know, you can rob a bank and you can 533 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.119 jump on a freeway and in five minutes you could 534 00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.960 be five miles away in cruising the side streets of 535 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.200 a whole different police jurisdiction. The golden rule of robbing 536 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:24.839 banks in Los Angeles is rob a bank near a freeway. 537 00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:27.839 And again George decided to rob his own bank, and 538 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.599 it was seven miles away from the from the nearest freeway. 539 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:40.039 But nineteen eighty was really the sheer number of bank robberies. 540 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:42.680 So Los Angeles had already established self as the bank 541 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:44.559 robbery capital of the world. But the sheer number of 542 00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.640 bank robberies was beginning to skyrocket, and most of that 543 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:51.400 was because of drug abuse and the cocaine era. When 544 00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:54.839 people got addicted, they needed money to feed that habit, 545 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.440 and robbing a bank in Los Angeles was not all 546 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.519 that difficult. The vast majority are one on one robberies. 547 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:05.039 That's one one bank robber going to one teller telling them, 548 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:06.559 you know, slipping them a note this is give me 549 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.679 all your money, and then leaving the bank with two 550 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.119 thousand and three thousand dollars something like that. Clearly, George 551 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.800 and Chris, we're not driven. 552 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:20.000 Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck. 553 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.679 I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. 554 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:27.599 With family, canolis and spins mean everything. Now you want 555 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.000 to get mixed up in the family business. Introducing the 556 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:35.000 Godfather at Champa Casino dot com. Test your luck in 557 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:37.719 the shadowy world at the Godfather slode. 558 00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.079 Some day I will call upon you to do a 559 00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:40.800 service for me. 560 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.760 Play the Godfather now at Champacasino dot com. 561 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.920 Welcome to the Family vdW group. No, it's necessary. I 562 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:47.840 believe we're privited by loss. 563 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:51.239 He terms and conditions eighteen plus by addiction. And this 564 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.400 was a completely different sort of robbery. This is a 565 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:58.199 takeover robbery. And takeover robberies have the potential for danger 566 00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:05.599 and and casualties. And they are the robberies that really 567 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.119 the FBI loose sleepover. Are these takeover robberies. 568 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:15.000 I'm glad you brought up the freeway, the reason for 569 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:17.400 all the bank robberies in Los Angeles and also what 570 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:21.199 their idea was. But because George picked his own bank 571 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:25.039 in terms of the idea that it had easy access 572 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:31.840 to a getaway, you talk about that assessment of Norco itself. Also, 573 00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.480 when that silent alarm went off and the police were alerted, 574 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.639 there was a misdirect as well that just added to 575 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:45.280 this incredible inadvertent diversion. Even more so the version they 576 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.719 had originally planned. 577 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.840 Yeah, yeah, there was some bad luck for the bank 578 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.840 as well. And again just to put the industry of 579 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:59.159 banking in perspective, in nineteen eighty, this is a Friday afternoon, 580 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.199 and it's payday, and so back in those days, people 581 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.239 did not use did not use credit cards for nearly 582 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.760 as much, and there really were ATMs were pretty much 583 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.760 non existent, and so people would go in and they 584 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.679 generally cash half their paycheck and walk out with cash 585 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:19.840 on it. So banks carried a lot of cash. But 586 00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:22.719 as the day went on, the bank was also emptying 587 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:24.800 itself out of cash, and they robbed this bank at 588 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:28.760 three thirty in the afternoon. The bank itself did not 589 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.960 even have cameras in it. Most did, but this branch 590 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:34.719 did not have any security cameras in it. One teller 591 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.400 did manage to trigger the silent alarm, but the bank 592 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.360 had been wired incorrectly, and that alarm went to the 593 00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:45.440 Corona Police Department, that's the neighboring town. The Corona Police 594 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:49.800 Department dispatched a robbery in progress to the Corona branch 595 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.519 of the Security Pacific Bank. So there was certainly a 596 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.440 delay there, and if it had not been for that 597 00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.079 bank teller across the street who had seen them go 598 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.760 in and called the uh, the riverside sheriffs and gave 599 00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:08.280 them the correct location. You know, none of what followed 600 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.679 may have happened at all, and that might have been 601 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.519 for the better for all involved as well. But uh, yeah, 602 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.280 that that first alarm went to the wrong city. 603 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:26.480 Yeah, you talk about Bloski and then uh Gary Keeter 604 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.559 knowing that Bloski was in trouble. But part of this 605 00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.039 is also the technology at the time and turning in 606 00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:37.400 terms of radios, and also jurisdictions different counties tell us 607 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.239 about that situation in terms of technologically being able to 608 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:41.239 communicate with each other. 609 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:46.960 Yeah. Uh, Dispatcher Gary Keeter is kind of an interesting story. 610 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.280 He was actually a patrolman who'd injured his knee and 611 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.920 was so a signed behind the dispatch mic and he 612 00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:58.440 is he did an absolutely incredible job during this running 613 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.400 gun battle that went on for uh for an hour 614 00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:05.719 and uh just had so many moving parts and he 615 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.800 you hear his voice on the radio traffic. He is 616 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.760 calm and cool and filtering through so much information. But 617 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.280 here's uh, here's one of the problems that really plagued 618 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.760 law enforcement at the time and still does to a 619 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:24.880 certain extent. But and that's that. Uh, this this pursuit, 620 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.880 it started with a pitched firefight in front of the 621 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:32.760 bank between three sheriff's deputies and uh five bank robbers 622 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.440 in which you know, people were wounded and one bank 623 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.760 robber killed, and then became a running gun battle through 624 00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:42.920 the suburban streets of Riverside County onto a major highway 625 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.400 that went into a San Bernardino County and then up 626 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.880 into the mountains. So the the law enforcement agencies involved 627 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.880 heavily were the Riverside County Sheriffs, Sam Bernardino County Sheriffs, 628 00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:57.920 and the California Highway Patrol. Not to mention some other 629 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.719 city agencies that were that were came in were involved, 630 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.039 and none of these guys could talk to each other 631 00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:08.239 the different agencies there was. There's an interagency system called 632 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.599 clay Mars which was just beginning to be implemented, and 633 00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:13.960 there was only one in which you could go to 634 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.639 a different frequency and all talk to each other, but 635 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.760 that was did not really come into play until later on. 636 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:23.599 And even in a very limited sense. Some patrol units 637 00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:26.440 had scanners so they could pick up different frequencies, but 638 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:30.000 they could not talk to those other those other agencies. 639 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:36.159 So when this became a pursuit with up to thirty 640 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:43.679 sometimes forty law enforcement vehicles involved, you know, these guys 641 00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:46.119 could not talk to each other, nor could some of 642 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:50.599 them talk to the helicopter above which was pursuing the 643 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.079 that was pursuing the bank robbers, and that would prove 644 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.000 to be fatal later on in the at the end 645 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:04.239 of the pursuit, inability for the lead patrol unit to 646 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.400 be able to talk directly to the helicopter and receive 647 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.440 reports from that helicopter as to where the truck was 648 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.159 that was with the bank robbers in front of it. 649 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:18.159 Before we talk about this incredible pursuit, and before that, 650 00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:24.159 the complete change of direction for these bank robbers. They 651 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.719 had with a diversion, the idea that they would have 652 00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.119 cold cars, they switch license plates so that they'd be 653 00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.519 able to go into another vehicle after they stole this 654 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:34.679 first vehicle. But that doesn't happen and they can't go 655 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:39.199 back to Mira Loma. So this pursuit changes, and no 656 00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:42.320 one knows and the police certainly can't predict much of 657 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.320 a direction, but they have their ideas. And it's interesting 658 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.039 all these sheriffs again and deputies pardon me, that are 659 00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:53.519 involved in this pursuit. Let's first talk about how outgunned 660 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.119 the police were at that time, because that's a big 661 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.639 contributing factor to not only Jim Evans' death, but this 662 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:04.880 entire thing that could have turned much, much worse. 663 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:11.079 Yeah, certainly, at that time, the sheriff's deputies were still 664 00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.280 guarding the wild West with the same weapons they had 665 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.639 for one hundred years, and that's a six shooter and 666 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:19.400 a Winchester shotgun. And as you can see, that was 667 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:23.079 no match for the weaponry that they were about to encounter. 668 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:32.440 And this this confrontation between law enforcement and bank robbers, 669 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:35.280 as I noticed, started immediately in front of the bank 670 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.960 when Glenn Bulaski came head to head with them, and 671 00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:43.000 then soon Chuck Hill and Andy Delgado, the other two 672 00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:47.639 deputies who were patrolling Norcobe, came un scene and there 673 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:51.400 was a pitched firefight in a crowded southern California intersection 674 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.320 at three point thirty in the afternoon on a Friday, 675 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:58.360 and there were over five hundred rounds fired. Blaski's vehicle 676 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.960 was hit forty six times. Blasky was wounded in by 677 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:07.079 bullet fragments or flying glass in five different places, including 678 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.360 a shot to the elbow that severed an artery. But 679 00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:14.519 Blaski did manage to get off four shotgun rounds and 680 00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:20.719 Andy Delgado managed to discharge his shotgun with ten rounds 681 00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:25.559 and they did inflict some damage. The getaway driver, Billy Delgado, 682 00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:28.280 was shot in the back of the head with a 683 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:32.079 shotgun pellet that paralyzed him and the van veered off 684 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:36.559 course and crashed into a fence. So the police were effective, 685 00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:39.800 was what they had. But once the pursuit got going 686 00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.880 after that, they really didn't stand a chance because when 687 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:46.760 Billy Delgado was killed, the van kind of rolled off 688 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:48.159 to the side and they couldn't get Billy out of 689 00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:51.679 the seat. So they abandoned the van and spread out 690 00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:55.320 into the intersection. They brought there they left their twenty 691 00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:57.519 thousand dollars that they'd gotten from the bank robbery, which 692 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:02.880 was a terrible take, and they they offloaded their double 693 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:07.719 bags full of bombs and UH and UH ammunition and 694 00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:11.880 brought their rifles with them and began to fan out 695 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.480 into this intersection while laying down heavy fire. The entire 696 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:18.519 time on on the three deputies there and as they say, 697 00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:24.119 wounding a significantly wounding Blaski. But in general, yeah, there 698 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:29.119 was a uh there. The police were completely outgunned, especially 699 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.719 because the bank robbers then commandeered a Ford F two 700 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:36.400 fifty pickup truck that was used that had been modified 701 00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:41.800 for as a service vehicle, a heavy heavy uh heavy 702 00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:48.840 equipment uh maintenance trucks. So had they fabricated a cabinets 703 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:50.480 on the sides of it, and they were filled with 704 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:54.840 equipment in tools and UH. And then they they'd mounted 705 00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:58.519 a settling and oxygen tanks on the back, back on 706 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:02.480 against the cab, those big tall tanks, and there's nothing 707 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:05.000 nothing the police were shooting it would ever penetrate those. 708 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:09.440 So this was you had. You then had h You 709 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:13.599 had Russ Harvin and George Smith in the back. Both 710 00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:16.320 have been wounded. George has been wounded pretty significantly. You 711 00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:19.519 had Manny Delgado sitting out the passenger window, he literally 712 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.039 had his torso completely out the passenger window, and Chris 713 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:26.960 Harvin driving, and all of the three guys had again 714 00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:30.400 these semi automatic high powered rifles. So for all intents 715 00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:35.280 and purposes, this was like a military military vehicle in 716 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.920 terms of its its armor and sell it's it's firepower. 717 00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:43.599 Chris Harvin has taken over from Billy Degatto, the driver 718 00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:45.239 that was shot in the back of the head. So 719 00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:49.119 what did they decide to do knowing this area? But 720 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.840 what still, what's this decision that they do that police 721 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:57.159 couldn't possibly predict where to go with this pursuit? And 722 00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:01.000 how is that an advantage to them? 723 00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:04.639 Certainly? So to set the scene back at the intersection, 724 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.679 the van is abandoned, Billy Delgado is dying in the 725 00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.719 front seat in the process of dying in the front seat, 726 00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:13.519 and over five hundred rounds have been fired. People are 727 00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:18.440 running for their lives when they commandeer this at gunpoint, 728 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:22.239 this truck I just mentioned, and they first begin heading 729 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.239 back to their home that they've you know, their compound 730 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.360 as you put, at their fortified home in miro Loma, 731 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:33.639 which is about nine or ten miles away, And they 732 00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:37.079 head up Hamner Avenue, which is the busiest boulevard in 733 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:42.480 that area in Norco, and heads up towards miro Loma. 734 00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:45.360 And as they head north, it starts to become more 735 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.679 and more kind of rural. There's kind of there's vineyards 736 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:52.480 out there, there's bean fields, there's sheep grazing meadows and 737 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:56.000 things like that. But it's still a very populated area. 738 00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:00.760 And as they begin to head towards their house, they're 739 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:04.320 really weaving through side streets and they turn almost every block, 740 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.880 and so it's almost impossible for these pursuing units to 741 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:13.000 predict where they're going to come out the radio traffic, 742 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.079 they're saying, Okay, they're they're you know, they're headed this 743 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:17.960 way on this street. Then now they're headed this way 744 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.360 on this street. Now they're headed this way on another street, 745 00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:23.199 and you know, trying to intercept them or set up 746 00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.559 a roadblock became almost impossible. There is not a helicopter 747 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:29.840 on them at that point. Riverside County Sheriff did not 748 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:33.480 have a helicopter. They had requested one from a from 749 00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:38.079 a nearby city, Riverside City PD, and that had not 750 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:41.480 that was not yet on the that had not yet 751 00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:44.760 engaged the pursuit. So what was happening is these police 752 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:48.280 officers were flooding into the area and the California Highway 753 00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.880 Patrol had begun to self dispatch off the freeways and 754 00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:55.480 we're involved now, and but they would suddenly come upon 755 00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:57.800 this truck with almost no warning, and these you know, 756 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:00.440 again you have three guys firing high powered rifle and 757 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.199 they were immediately being hit with gunfire. There were numerous 758 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:10.960 vehicles struck by gunfire, including civilian vehicles. They also rammed 759 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:14.000 a few civilian vehicles. They pushed one out into an intersection, 760 00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:15.920 so they took that truck and just rammed them out 761 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:17.760 of the intersection so they could get through the light. 762 00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.679 The next intersection they rammed it, hit another car sideways, 763 00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:24.679 they t boned it, sent it spinning, and then they 764 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.000 started weaving through these streets. And in the matter of 765 00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:33.440 you know, about ten minutes, there was an additional five 766 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.440 five people hit by gunfire, four deputies and a civilian 767 00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:40.960 by the time they got up to Mira Loma, and 768 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:44.280 then by the time and then the helicopter engaged them 769 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:46.920 in Mira Loma. So when they did finally get to 770 00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.039 their house, they really had no ability to stop there. 771 00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:52.719 I mean, they had a helicopter on them, and they 772 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:56.280 still had one California Highway Patrol unit and three deputies 773 00:47:56.360 --> 00:48:00.800 right following through these through these streets with. 774 00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:04.119 The lucky land slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 775 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.840 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 776 00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:09.679 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 777 00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.800 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 778 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:15.280 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 779 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:17.639 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 780 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:18.880 and start getting lucky. 781 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.599 Play for free at lucky landslips dot com. Are you 782 00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:26.320 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 783 00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:30.079 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 784 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:35.360 So what was the route they took? What was the idea? 785 00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:38.760 Where were they They originally had an idea to escape 786 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.239 if the bank robbery were successful. Now what was their 787 00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.360 idea and what was their route? And again it banished route. 788 00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:51.719 Yeah, the initial idea was to as you mentioned, they 789 00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:54.480 had parked a couple of cold cars, which were their 790 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:58.119 personal vehicles with stolen plates on them, and they were 791 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:00.599 going to dump the van and the hostage who's still 792 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:03.320 in the back, would you know? And they would dump 793 00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:05.840 that the van, hop into those cars, head out to 794 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.599 Las Vegas and and launder the money through the casinos there. 795 00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:15.440 When uh when, by the time they now now in 796 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:16.840 the truck By the time they got up to the 797 00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:19.639 cold cars, they had to they had police officers, they 798 00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:23.000 were already encountering them. They've been spotted. So Chris Harvin 799 00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:25.840 decided not to stop at the cold cars, and that's 800 00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:29.039 when they were headed towards their house. And the advantage, 801 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.719 of course, was weaving through those streets was that nobody 802 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:33.960 could get a beat on them or set up a 803 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:40.800 roadblock or otherwise prepared to encounter them. And uh, you 804 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:42.880 know they are and that at that point headed in 805 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.760 the direction inadvertently headed in the direction of a of 806 00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:50.000 a freeway. But yeah, the second destination was the house itself. 807 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:56.320 So tell us about what happens with the again, it's 808 00:49:56.679 --> 00:50:01.559 it's interesting. You have all these deputies disabled, their cars 809 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:09.599 disabled by gunfire, people piggybacking into other vehicles, people going 810 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:13.039 first in the line then dropping back. There is warning 811 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.280 too to drop back from these guys because of their 812 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:19.079 weaponry is hitting targets of half a mile to a mile, 813 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.199 which is astonishing. Again, there isn't communication with everyone. Tell 814 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:26.039 us what happens with Deputy Jim. 815 00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:33.360 Evans after weaving through the streets of a suburban Riverside 816 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:39.039 County and deciding to abandon stopping at their house. They 817 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:41.800 weaved around and they passed the house twice and then 818 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:46.039 abandoned that idea and then tried tried to actually commandeer 819 00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:50.559 another vehicle, which which failed. But at that point they 820 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:55.960 had reached had reached the freeway, the Pomona Freeway, and 821 00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:01.320 the strategy at that point was to head up into 822 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:05.199 the mountains above Los Angeles and to then try to 823 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.320 use the fact that they had this truck to lose 824 00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:11.400 the patrol vehicles which are really you know, sit ans 825 00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:16.719 and on the rough dirt roads and eventually disappear into 826 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:20.440 the canyons. So the first thing they did is they 827 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:23.440 got on the Pomona Freeway and then onto Interstate fifteen 828 00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:27.599 and headed east into the mountains above Los Angeles and 829 00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:31.119 Los Angeles and Riverside San Bernardino, and they crossed into 830 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.920 the San Bernardino County line, so they've passed into the 831 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:38.280 jurisdiction of the Riverside County Sheriffs and onto the freeway, 832 00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:40.840 which is the turf of the California Highway Patrol. So 833 00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:45.119 now you had Riverside still pursuing California Highway Patrol descending 834 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:48.880 from all different directions and then the San Bernardino County 835 00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.880 Sheriffs starting to flood onto the freeway at that point, 836 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:55.559 and that's where they are hitting patrol vehicles from about 837 00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:58.559 a half a mile away. And soon the patrol units, 838 00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.880 the deputies, and the CHP units start to turn off 839 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.760 their lights, their light bars because they were they realized 840 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.559 they were being targeted. They could see the light bars. 841 00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:13.280 Chris Harvin also begins to slow down to at points 842 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.360 to try to ambush these these pursuing vehicles, draw them 843 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:18.639 in close, hit the brakes and have those guys fire 844 00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:22.599 on them from close range. They throw out three fragmentation 845 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.920 grenades on Interstate fifteen that pepper the pursuing police officers 846 00:52:27.960 --> 00:52:32.519 with shrapnel. This whole time, they're hitting civilian cars as 847 00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.440 well semi trucks, shooting them at close range, some of 848 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:40.760 the inadvertently some inexplicably turning their guns on civilians. So 849 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:44.880 people are bailing off the freeway into the breakdown lane. 850 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.079 Trucks are swerving to get out of the way. It 851 00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:50.920 is absolute chaos on this freeway and it's at this 852 00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:54.039 point that they turn their guns on a San Bernardino 853 00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:58.840 County Sheriff's helicopter that's about eight hundred feet above them 854 00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:01.320 and George Smith. It's a round from a three to 855 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:04.280 eight right through the belly of this helicopter and it 856 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:09.519 immediately the electrical system in the radios catches fire. And 857 00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:16.039 luckily it's a Vietnam chopper pilot with tons of combat 858 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:19.800 experience behind the stick in that helicopter, and he manages 859 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:22.400 to get it down to the ground before it before 860 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.320 it crashes, and they are and then a second helicopter 861 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:28.760 quickly comes in and resumes the pursuit. But the way 862 00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:31.679 they're headed is to the mountains of above Los Angeles, 863 00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:33.360 and they get off after about eight miles. They get 864 00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:37.360 off at Sierra Road and start to head up Lytle Creek. 865 00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:41.400 And Lytle Creek is a place where they were familiar. 866 00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.119 It is a it's a place where you can fire 867 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:48.000 guns anywhere you want at that time, and that's where 868 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:51.880 they had gone to practice with their new weapons. Even 869 00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:54.119 threw a hand grenade down in the cannon to make 870 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:57.079 canyon to make sure they work. That was a week before, 871 00:53:57.320 --> 00:54:00.480 so they're very familiar with this area. And you know, 872 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:02.000 if you know the little if you know the San 873 00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:06.199 Gabriel National Forest and Mount Baldy in that area. These 874 00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:09.599 are very rugged mountains. You know, they can jut up 875 00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:14.639 to over ten thousand feet very rapidly. So these are 876 00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:20.320 very rough canyons. And when that pursuit and it's you know, 877 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:22.840 this is a two lane road that starts his asphalt 878 00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:26.880 and then turns into turns into a dirt road and 879 00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:28.480 again a rough dirt road. So a lot of these 880 00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:30.519 cars are breaking down as you say, ones that were 881 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:35.159 hit with gunfire are bailing out and the police officers 882 00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:37.400 and summer jumping out of one vehicle and getting into 883 00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:39.599 another one. So now there's you know, some of them 884 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:43.760 have two and even three officers in there. And you 885 00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:46.400 mentioned Jim Evans, and this is where on the on 886 00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:49.519 the I fifteen's where Jim Evans, Deputy Riverside Deputy. Jim 887 00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:55.679 Evans joins the pursuit. And I'll give you a little 888 00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:58.239 bit of background on Jim Evans. He's older, he's about 889 00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:02.639 thirty eight years old. He's a career military. He is 890 00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:07.719 Green Beret, highly decorated in Vietnam UH combat mission. So 891 00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.519 he's a he's a senior guy. He joined the joined 892 00:55:10.519 --> 00:55:13.360 the river. He's only joined the Sheriff's department and about 893 00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:16.159 five years before. But he was certainly destined to move 894 00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:21.119 up the ranks. Just a wonderful human being. Quiet, He's 895 00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:24.760 a Texan, so he's got that Texas drawl, really looked 896 00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:28.079 up to by the bias fellow deputies. And and so 897 00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:32.519 Jim Evans is in uh in one of the front 898 00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:34.679 cars in the pursuit as it heads up into this 899 00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.800 very ominous landscape of the mountains. 900 00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:46.639 And uh. You talk about Mary too, You describe and 901 00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:49.960 and feature her in the story as well. She's a 902 00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:54.639 bus driver. It's later in the evening. I don't think 903 00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:56.400 she's served. She hadn't heard any news at all. 904 00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:02.000 Tell us about that, Yeah, Mary Evans, you know the 905 00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:07.239 uh uh Jim and Mary Evans is really a unique 906 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:11.239 kind of love story. As I say, Jim Evans was 907 00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:15.599 a was a Texan and UH and military and he 908 00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:19.599 moved to a Riverside County because he was familiar with 909 00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:22.960 it from being there in the military. Mary was a 910 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:27.599 a Italian Roman Catholic from Boston who ended up in 911 00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:31.639 Riverside because she loved horses and and had come out 912 00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.840 at one point they she had had had a pretty 913 00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.280 rough life and she was a very tough woman. And 914 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:40.280 when these two found each other, they had they had 915 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:42.880 really found the love of their lives. They were a 916 00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.079 perfect couple couple together. They both loved to ride horses, 917 00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:51.719 owned horses, and uh, it's kind of one of these 918 00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:54.360 things where long last both of them had found the 919 00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:56.840 perfect person. And they'd been married about two years and 920 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:01.360 had a uh, had a son that was about six, 921 00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:06.320 about eight weeks old at the time. And Mary was 922 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:10.400 a municipal bus driver. And again you know the times 923 00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:15.480 in which these things take place. Excuse if you didn't 924 00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:17.840 have the radio on, and even then, you might not 925 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.800 have even known this was going on unless you encountered 926 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.480 this crazy pursuit that was unfolding. And she was on 927 00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:25.960 a bus route at the time, so she did not 928 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:30.400 know her husband, Jim Evans, was involved in anything because 929 00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:31.639 she didn't know this was going on. 930 00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:39.119 Yeah, now back to this pursuit here we talk about 931 00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:44.800 it continues the next day because that's how dangerous this is. 932 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:50.039 And they realized that with this ambush ability and darkness 933 00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.719 as a cover, that they should regroup and bring in 934 00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:57.880 another helicopter and bring in some more people and hunt 935 00:57:57.960 --> 00:58:01.800 and kill team. Tell us about this endeavor on the 936 00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:02.320 next day. 937 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:05.239 Yeah, and and and I'm sorry you asked me and 938 00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.199 I didn't wrap up. They kind of wrap up the 939 00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:11.719 pursuit that day as it goes up into Lytle Creek. Uh. 940 00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:15.079 There is a couple of things that have occurred. Number One, 941 00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:20.119 there is a a Sambernardino deputy named DJ McCarty who 942 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:23.159 happens to be sitting in the station getting off a shift, 943 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.039 and he starts to hear the radio traffic through the 944 00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:32.000 squawk box there and and then he decides that he's 945 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:33.920 just start to put his uniform back on and maybe 946 00:58:33.920 --> 00:58:37.639 get out there. And then another deputy, Jim McPherrin, is 947 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:39.719 out in the field and he hears the helicopter be 948 00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:43.280 grounded and he radios back to the to the station. 949 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:46.280 He says, uh, get the ar And what he meant 950 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:50.760 was there was the Uh. There was a M sixteen, 951 00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:56.199 a you know, a military M sixteen rifle that they 952 00:58:56.199 --> 00:58:59.519 had confiscated from a drug dealer in a pursuit. Drug 953 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:01.880 dealer throw it out the window on the freeway. And 954 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:04.360 that was the only high powered rifle that either of 955 00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:09.599 those departments had was this one confiscated M sixteen rifle 956 00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:12.840 and the military didn't want it back, so it was 957 00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:15.719 sitting around in a sergeant's trunk of their car and 958 00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:18.880 DJ McCarty runs out. He grabs that weapon, and this 959 00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:21.920 is a fully automatic M sixteen, you know, rifle that 960 00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:27.159 they use in Vietnam, and four magazines full of ammunition. 961 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:30.079 And he jumps in with McPherrin and they start to 962 00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:31.800 try to make their way up to the front of 963 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.639 the pursuit line, and they are radioing to other vehicles, 964 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:36.480 you know, get out of our way. We have a 965 00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:39.719 you know, we have a rifle here. And so they 966 00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:42.760 are starting to move up the pursuit line when this 967 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:47.239 pursuit then goes onto a fire road, a very narrow 968 00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.840 fire road that is clean to the side of this mountain, 969 00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:54.079 and Jim Evans is then in the lead, and by 970 00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:57.599 then DJ McCarty has gotten to number two in the 971 00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:01.360 pursuit line behind Evans. But Evans, again because of the 972 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:05.159 radio situation, does not know that there is a there's 973 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:07.360 a vehicle behind him that has that high powered rifle 974 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:09.440 that they're trying to bring the bear on the pursuit. 975 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.920 There are about forty police cars still there, winding still 976 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:14.880 in the pursuit line as they head up this very 977 01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:18.480 treacherous fire road. And what happens is when they get 978 01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:24.880 around a curve, the uh, the truck encounters wash out 979 01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:28.159 in the road and they have to they have to 980 01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:30.639 bring the pursuit to a hall pen. They can't go 981 01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:33.800 any farther. They jump out and they ambush the pursuing 982 01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:38.039 police officers and and deputies. And I won't give away 983 01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:41.559 that that's a very dramatic scene. It is again another 984 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:46.440 ferocious firefight, this time seven thousand feet up a mountain side. 985 01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:54.480 And and when it's over again, Evans is dead and 986 01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:00.360 the remaining four bank robbers disappear into the canons of 987 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:02.840 Mount Baldy. They run up the fire road, they climb 988 01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:06.960 over the the washout, and they uh, they they disappear 989 01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:09.320 in the canyons. By that time, it's it's it's uh, 990 01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:13.119 you know, it's it's coming on five o'clock in the evening. 991 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:16.559 There's a it's cold up there. The helicopter's a cloud 992 01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:19.440 covered descending, so that they're gonna lose their helicopters soon. 993 01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:22.760 It's starting to get dark, and the law enforcement decides 994 01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:25.719 they're just gonna hunker down and start a massive man hunt. 995 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:27.920 The next day to UH to round up these four 996 01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:37.280 escaped bank robbers and at this point cop killers ad no, 997 01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:40.199 I'm sorry yeah, And this this leads to UH your 998 01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:42.920 question about putting together this man hunt, which turns into 999 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:46.440 the largest man hunt in UH California law enforcement history. 1000 01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:51.000 And they start to bring in specialized teams. There's UH, 1001 01:01:51.159 --> 01:01:56.119 there's UH there's dog, there's a search dogs, you know, 1002 01:01:56.199 --> 01:02:03.280 sniffer dogs and uh uh uh uh deputies on horseback 1003 01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:07.239 and uh search search and rescue teams. They start to 1004 01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:11.760 bring in helicopters. The military brings in uh Arctic parkas 1005 01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.760 that some of the deputies put on. It gets very 1006 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:16.719 cold that night, and it does. There's a dusting of 1007 01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:21.199 snow and freezing rain. And when they set off the 1008 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:24.239 next day there they have SWAT teams up there. They 1009 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:27.559 have these tracker teams and what they brought in from 1010 01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:30.639 a Los Angeles county where what's known as the hunt 1011 01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:34.119 and kill teams, and a hunt and kill team is 1012 01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:39.159 is two two swap members, one with a shotgun and 1013 01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.840 one with a high powered rifle. And they are then 1014 01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:47.840 accompanied by one UH one deputy and and one UH 1015 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:51.519 tracking team. And you can tell by the name that 1016 01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:54.280 their their job is uh, you know, they're they're not 1017 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:56.880 officially called the hunt and kill team, but they're they're 1018 01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:59.719 meant to, you know, to to be able to bring 1019 01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:03.559 to locate suspects and if necessary, have the firepower to 1020 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:06.599 as they say, neutralize that suspect. So there are the 1021 01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:08.920 hunt and kill teams up there as well. When they 1022 01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:10.800 start this massive man hunt the next. 1023 01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:17.320 Day, yeah, interesting. The next day you say, it's incredibly cold, 1024 01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:23.280 and these robbers, some of them awake. Russell awakes, George 1025 01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:27.239 Smith awakes. He thought he might be dead because he 1026 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:32.719 had been hit significantly and was bleeding. Who do the 1027 01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.880 hunt and kill teams? Who do the police first encounter? 1028 01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:40.400 And what does that person have to say once encountered? 1029 01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:43.360 Is very interesting? Somebody is there to record? 1030 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:50.440 Yes. Then when they had escaped up the fire road, 1031 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.639 they had split up. The first to kind of go 1032 01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:57.960 off the road and down the side of the mountain 1033 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:00.519 side to hide was George Smith had been shot in 1034 01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:02.320 the groining back in front of the bank with a 1035 01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:05.880 with a shotgun pellet, and had been twice and had 1036 01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:09.199 been had been bleeding out in the back of that truck, 1037 01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:11.639 and he fully expected that he was going to die 1038 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:15.840 because he had lost so much blood so he was weak. 1039 01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:18.440 He went about two hundred yards down the mountain side, 1040 01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:21.760 kind of hid behind a bush, sat there through the night, 1041 01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:24.639 and it was just a miserable night. They were soaked 1042 01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:27.800 through with freezing rain. He'd thrown away his rifle at 1043 01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:29.880 this point. He just had a couple of handguns on him. 1044 01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:32.920 And George was kind of done by the time, as 1045 01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:35.239 as you mentioned, he was waking up during the night 1046 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:37.960 and kind of looking up and certain times thought he 1047 01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:40.719 was actually dead, you know, kind of am I alive? 1048 01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:46.800 Am I dead? And the first the first person law 1049 01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:52.800 enforcement encounters as George Smith and the other two, as 1050 01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:56.239 I said, Chris Harvin, Russ Harvin Manny Delgado, had all 1051 01:04:56.559 --> 01:04:59.159 individually at some point gone over the as they go 1052 01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:01.920 over the side off the fire road and down down 1053 01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.400 into the mountains and the canyons, but they've gone separately. 1054 01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:09.000 So George next morning, George Smith is the first to 1055 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:11.920 be found and he really gives himself up. But he's 1056 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:14.679 a few hundred yards down this very treacherous mountain side 1057 01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:17.679 and it's gonna in his condition, it's gonna take him 1058 01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:20.440 a while to walk him down to where a helicopter 1059 01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:25.960 can take him out, and uh Sam Bernadino uh sends 1060 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.599 a homicide detective up the mountain side with a tape 1061 01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:32.960 recorder to interrogate George Smith as they're bringing him down, 1062 01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:37.639 and it's it's very dramatic audio. You can hear the 1063 01:05:37.639 --> 01:05:43.159 helicopter in the back and uh rosta Ork homicide detective 1064 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:46.159 roster of Orick is interviewing George Smith. And the first 1065 01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:48.119 thing he tells him is, George, you realize you have 1066 01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:51.119 a bullet in you You you realize you may die, 1067 01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:55.320 right George? And George says yeah. And then and so 1068 01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:57.440 basically what roster of Orick has got him into is 1069 01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.320 sort of a deathbed confessional. And roster Worick honestly thought 1070 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.440 he might die before he gets him down this mountain side. 1071 01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:05.639 He can only go about, you know, fifteen feet before 1072 01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:08.760 they need to have him rest. He keeps saying he 1073 01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:11.559 wants to go to sleep, and but he gets a 1074 01:06:11.639 --> 01:06:17.199 rather stunning confession and full accounting of the bank robbery 1075 01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:20.480 and the names of the other bank robbers, and George 1076 01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.159 admits that he'd put the whole thing together his idea 1077 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:27.559 as they're as they're going down that mountain side, and 1078 01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:31.400 in the end George survives, and a lot of that 1079 01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:35.039 is is used against them all in the in the 1080 01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:38.719 coming trial. So George is the first to give up. 1081 01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:43.440 At about nine eight thirty in the morning, Russ had 1082 01:06:43.480 --> 01:06:47.519 found his brother Chris. During the night, Chris had had 1083 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:52.000 been had been shot in the back during the ambush 1084 01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:57.239 up on the fire road. He he had he had 1085 01:06:57.280 --> 01:06:59.800 about had it midway through the through the night and 1086 01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:02.400 ahead and started a fire just kind of, you know, 1087 01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:04.159 the heck with it? If I if I get seen 1088 01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:06.639 and caught, you know, I'm not getting out of this anyways. 1089 01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:10.239 Russell sees the fire and uh and goes down the 1090 01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:13.840 hillside and and meets up with his brother and as 1091 01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:18.000 it becomes light, and they just decide they're going to 1092 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:19.840 start walking out of the canyon. And if they walk 1093 01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:24.519 out of the canyon, great, but they fully expected that 1094 01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:27.400 they would be captured at some point down the way. 1095 01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.760 So Chris has got the bullet in his back and 1096 01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:35.480 he is coughing of blood. Russell Harvin is diabetic and 1097 01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:37.880 he has no insulin or food on him, and he 1098 01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:41.400 had also taken a shotgun pellet underneath his scalp in 1099 01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:44.159 the intersection in front of the bank. It had not 1100 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:48.239 penetrated the skull, but it was still underneath his underneath 1101 01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:53.960 his scalp. And they are spotted and picked up. They 1102 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.400 had actually quite made it quite a ways out of 1103 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:59.800 Lytle Creek canyon, and but they were spotted and picked 1104 01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:05.159 up and gave up about ten thirty in the morning, 1105 01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:09.239 and that led Manny Delgado. Manny Delgado was the only 1106 01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:12.239 one who had not been wounded during the firefight, but 1107 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:15.360 he had seen his seventeen year old little brother die 1108 01:08:15.400 --> 01:08:19.039 in front of him, or you know, badly wounded and 1109 01:08:19.079 --> 01:08:21.600 honest clearly on his way to death. He was paralyzed 1110 01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:25.000 at the time by the round and you know, may 1111 01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.000 the thinking was Manny was probably not going to give 1112 01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:34.039 himself up at this point. Is is generally considered his 1113 01:08:34.079 --> 01:08:36.880 state of mind. And he ran the farthest up the 1114 01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:39.640 fire road and then began during the night making his 1115 01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:44.239 way over mountaintops, you know, ridge lines and things like that, 1116 01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:47.840 and when daylight came, he was under it. He was 1117 01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:51.439 kind of at the crest of a ridge line. Then 1118 01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:53.720 we're talking seven thousand feet up in the mountains. Eight 1119 01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:56.000 thousand feet I think is around where he was under 1120 01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:59.560 some very thick brush, so thick you'd have to crawl 1121 01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:03.000 on your to really to be able to penetrate it. 1122 01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.760 And he is a hunker down there. Of course, he's 1123 01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:10.000 got no food whatever, water, he's just squeezing out of 1124 01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:13.000 his clothes to drink. He is armed. He also has 1125 01:09:13.039 --> 01:09:16.039 thrown away as a rifle, and he's armed with a 1126 01:09:16.079 --> 01:09:19.479 thirty eight revolver. The hunt and kill teams and the 1127 01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:22.119 SWAT teams up there assume he has a high powered rifle, 1128 01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:26.399 but at that point he didn't. And Manny Delgado gets 1129 01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:30.479 just by almost sheer luck, gets spotted by a helicopter 1130 01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:35.039 when they see just a flash of blue from some 1131 01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:38.640 some gloves Manny was wearing for warmth that he'd used 1132 01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:42.439 during the robbery, and they signal to a hunt and 1133 01:09:42.520 --> 01:09:45.520 kill team in La County Sheriff's Hunt and Kill team 1134 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:48.680 where he is. They hover down below him to to 1135 01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:52.079 you know, to cause such a racket. You know, they're 1136 01:09:52.119 --> 01:09:55.439 they're using the rotor blades to part the brush. Of course, 1137 01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:58.199 it's a huge amount of noise and spraying dirt all 1138 01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:00.399 over him and everything that kind of just packed him 1139 01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:04.079 while this hunt and killed team sneaks up and when 1140 01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:07.239 they get about fifteen feet away, they yell for Manny 1141 01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:11.920 to freeze. Manny looks over, kind of leans up, and 1142 01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:14.199 you know, these guys are not trained to give a 1143 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:17.880 to give a fugitive, especially one who's already killed a 1144 01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:21.840 police officer anytime. They don't give them any breaks, and 1145 01:10:22.119 --> 01:10:26.439 they immediately, you know, they open fire on him and 1146 01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:28.640 they they kill Manny Delgado. 1147 01:10:31.640 --> 01:10:35.199 It's found out later that he killed himself. 1148 01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:38.800 Yeah, there's a bit of a mystery about the death 1149 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:41.119 of Manny Delgado. As they say, these this hunt and 1150 01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:43.720 kill team came up, one with a high powered rifle, 1151 01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:45.680 one with a shotgun. And when I said, they didn't 1152 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:47.880 give him a break, they just they're not gonna take 1153 01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:51.359 any risk that this that the fugitive is going to 1154 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:54.439 fire back at him. And when Manny Delgado hears them yell, 1155 01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.000 he leans up. He's lying flat on his stomach at 1156 01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.439 the time. He leans up kind of on his left 1157 01:10:59.840 --> 01:11:01.960 and they see he's got the gun in his hand 1158 01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:05.920 and they fire on him. But the autopsy later on 1159 01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:09.319 shows that Manny Delgado was killed from around from his 1160 01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:12.760 own gun, shot straight through his heart. And there is 1161 01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:16.680 kind of a poetry if you will about that. You know, 1162 01:11:16.760 --> 01:11:18.840 he'd just seen his little brother get killed, his little 1163 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:21.880 brother who he talked into, talked into becoming part of this, 1164 01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:25.319 and you know, sure he was broken hearted. And there 1165 01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:28.439 was some rumors that went around that maybe he had, 1166 01:11:28.760 --> 01:11:32.279 you know, just just killed himself, but it's more likely 1167 01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:34.279 that he had fallen on the gun when the first 1168 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:37.560 round went through and the gun been discharged. But it 1169 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:42.159 was the cause of death in the end, was a 1170 01:11:42.199 --> 01:11:44.039 self inflicted gunshot wound through the heart. 1171 01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:49.279 He would have been dead one way or another right away. 1172 01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:56.079 You have the fascinating aspect of that recorded confession from 1173 01:11:56.199 --> 01:11:57.960 George Smith when he thought he was going to die. 1174 01:11:58.520 --> 01:12:03.439 What's even more fascinating is when these characters are arrested 1175 01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:08.560 and in prison, in jail awaiting, and there's different responses 1176 01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:13.199 now that there's the confession, but now that George realizes 1177 01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:18.960 he's not going to die, and Chris has a different 1178 01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:26.039 attitude with investigators once he's arrested. Tell us about those 1179 01:12:27.239 --> 01:12:31.119 people being questioned, but first tell us what both of 1180 01:12:31.159 --> 01:12:34.800 their thoughts are, but especially George, once they are arrested 1181 01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:39.840 and concerning this whole revelation idea end times. 1182 01:12:41.399 --> 01:12:47.279 Yeah, the day they are captured. The three surviving bank 1183 01:12:47.359 --> 01:12:50.680 robbers there, of course split up, and we still have 1184 01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:57.159 the interrogation tapes on all of them. Russell Harvin is 1185 01:12:56.239 --> 01:13:01.560 he sounds utterly stunned to have found himself in this situation. 1186 01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.720 And it's just saying, I'm boy. You know my parents 1187 01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:07.920 are boy or my parents going to be surprised, surprised 1188 01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:12.359 and needless to say, they were and devastated. He also 1189 01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:14.760 begins to just cough up information. You can hear he's 1190 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.760 a he's reluctant to he's trying to hedge it. He's 1191 01:13:18.039 --> 01:13:20.840 he keeps saying he forgets things, but he does keep talking. 1192 01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:26.119 You know, Rest is a guy who's easily talked into things, 1193 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:30.000 and he was not much of a challenge for these interrogators. 1194 01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:31.920 Plus they've been pretty much caught red handed. 1195 01:13:32.760 --> 01:13:32.880 Uh. 1196 01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:40.199 Chris Harvin also also gives out details. Chris is a 1197 01:13:40.239 --> 01:13:43.560 little bit uh, it turns out more during the trial, 1198 01:13:43.560 --> 01:13:46.039 a little a guy who's kind of in it to 1199 01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:50.840 protect himself and and but he he tells about and 1200 01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.239 he's also saying, I can't believe I got talked into 1201 01:13:53.239 --> 01:13:55.359 This is such a stupid idea. I knew this was 1202 01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:59.520 a stupid idea. I knew it wouldn't work, and he says, 1203 01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:02.119 you know, George did this, and George gave pure pressure 1204 01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:05.920 on me to do it. George's helicopter to a to 1205 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:12.920 a hospital, and George just just kind of freely talk. 1206 01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:20.159 He's he's his usual very soft spoken, intelligent self, and 1207 01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:23.119 uh he also you know, he just says, I put 1208 01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:25.239 it all together. I did this. I told these guys 1209 01:14:25.239 --> 01:14:27.039 to do this. I told them where to go. I 1210 01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:32.000 picked the bank and everything. So they all confess, and 1211 01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:35.239 at that point they don't really neither of them mention 1212 01:14:35.359 --> 01:14:38.199 anything about their beliefs out of what propelled them to 1213 01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:40.800 do it. It's only later when they go to trial 1214 01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.640 that they begin to to bring it up and almost 1215 01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:48.319 use it as a strategy, you know if, rather than 1216 01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:54.159 just it just being a you know, a greedy bank robbery, 1217 01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:57.119 they kind of assign it a higher purpose, you know, 1218 01:14:57.520 --> 01:14:59.600 that that they believed that the end of the world 1219 01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:03.600 has come and one of the just and that they 1220 01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:05.960 were doing it because they needed to save those who 1221 01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.039 they loved, so it was almost a you know, a 1222 01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:11.960 higher purpose to it. One of the most unusual things 1223 01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:15.520 is that two weeks after they are captured. Is when 1224 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:20.920 Mount Saint Helen's volcano blows up in Washington State and 1225 01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:26.199 both George and Chris see that, you know, that catastrophic event. 1226 01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:28.640 You know, a lot of people, a lot of people die, 1227 01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:35.199 but mostly just a natural, natural phenomena natural disaster event. 1228 01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:38.800 You know, they think, well, here we go. You know, 1229 01:15:38.840 --> 01:15:41.960 George is thinking it's the first son. Chris Harvin, you know, Okay, 1230 01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:44.640 the Jupiter effect isn't there at that time. But Chris 1231 01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:47.800 had always thought it would be volcanic activity and seismic 1232 01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:50.840 earthquakes and things along the Pacific rim that would that 1233 01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:55.000 would throw California into chaos and destruction. So it's it's 1234 01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:58.600 kind of an unusual, unusual coincidence. 1235 01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:03.239 You talk about the attorneys, and of course there are 1236 01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:05.319 people that are opposed to the death penalty because this 1237 01:16:05.479 --> 01:16:10.800 is potential for a death penalty with this. What's interesting 1238 01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:14.560 is the who do they blame? They have to blame someone, 1239 01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:16.760 so who do they blame in this? 1240 01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:24.920 Well, yeah, you know, the trial was what was the 1241 01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:29.319 most unexpected thing in this entire entire book and entire event. 1242 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:32.479 I grew up in southern California. I knew when this 1243 01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:35.119 event happened It was absolutely astonishing to me. I mean, 1244 01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:42.359 we've really seen nothing like it before. And the trial, 1245 01:16:42.439 --> 01:16:44.479 you get this whole new cast of characters come in, 1246 01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:50.479 these very is very interesting and defense attorneys, and it's 1247 01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:53.199 it's it's a death penalty trial. And it's not a 1248 01:16:53.239 --> 01:16:54.800 matter of whether these guys are going to be found 1249 01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:57.000 not guilty, it's whether they're going to be sentenced to death. 1250 01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.920 But it is still a very dramatic trial and it 1251 01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:04.239 starts to go off the rails almost immediately with a 1252 01:17:04.439 --> 01:17:07.239 jury selection and that lasted six months, which is absolutely 1253 01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:13.920 unheard of. But this trial just becomes a fascinating you know, 1254 01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:21.880 probably the most unusual development comes about twelve months into 1255 01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:26.039 this trial. One of the more unusual when Chris Harvin's 1256 01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:28.680 defense attorney, Chris Harvin and his defense attorney to try 1257 01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:34.359 suddenly throw a hail Mary defense into this in which 1258 01:17:35.159 --> 01:17:37.760 they say that Chris was never even there for the 1259 01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:40.119 bank robbery. In fact, Chris had tried to talk everybody 1260 01:17:40.199 --> 01:17:44.319 out out of doing this the morning of, and that 1261 01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:50.239 there was a mysterious character named Jerry Cohen who was 1262 01:17:50.359 --> 01:17:53.000 actually the guy mistaken for Chris Harvin in the bank, 1263 01:17:53.279 --> 01:17:56.439 and it was Jerry Cohen, who had forced them all 1264 01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:58.880 to do this, and Chris had bailed out at the 1265 01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:03.319 last second, he claimed and testifies to, and was running 1266 01:18:03.439 --> 01:18:07.439 up Hamner Avenue to just to get back home when 1267 01:18:07.439 --> 01:18:09.479 all of a sudden, the yellow truck came and Manny 1268 01:18:09.520 --> 01:18:12.920 do and he says, Manny Delgado and Jerry Cohen pointed 1269 01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:15.880 a gun at me and forced me to drive the 1270 01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:17.560 truck and I didn't want to do it, but that's 1271 01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:19.920 why I'm up on the mountain. But I wasn't part 1272 01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:23.159 of this. So this Jerry Cone, who of course has 1273 01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:27.319 never been found, is is the one they blame. And 1274 01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:29.199 the other is that they start to put the blame 1275 01:18:29.199 --> 01:18:33.399 on Manny Delgado. Manny's not there to defend himself. Manny, 1276 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.359 by all accounts, was he and Russell Harvin probably the 1277 01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:40.640 most prolific shooters in the entire pursuit. So they've been spotted. 1278 01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:43.319 Many has been sitting outside the cab for most of 1279 01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:48.640 the pursuit out the passenger window. And the real, uh, 1280 01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:51.279 the the what was going to get them the death 1281 01:18:51.279 --> 01:18:54.159 penalty was the death of Jim Evans, Deputy Jim Evans, 1282 01:18:54.279 --> 01:18:58.600 and uh and so then there then there becomes another 1283 01:18:58.640 --> 01:19:01.199 person who they start to blame on all this when 1284 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:04.000 it comes to the death of Jim Evans, and that 1285 01:19:04.199 --> 01:19:07.159 is they claim they put on a friendly fire defense, 1286 01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:11.359 and they claimed that DJ McCarty, the Sambernandino deputy, who 1287 01:19:11.359 --> 01:19:13.920 had the M sixteen rifle that he had never used 1288 01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:16.119 before in his life and did bring it to bear 1289 01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:19.960 during that ambush and was in the vehicle right behind 1290 01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:21.720 Jim Evans. So when they all jumped out of their 1291 01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:25.399 out of their vehicles, they say that DJ McCarty opened 1292 01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:28.039 fire with a gun he'd never used before and shot 1293 01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:30.239 Jim Evans, who was ten feet in front of him. 1294 01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:34.520 And so they so DJ McCarty not only has the uh, 1295 01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:39.720 you know, the traumatic experience of watching another deputy killed 1296 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:43.079 in front of him, the terror of almost being killed himself. 1297 01:19:43.399 --> 01:19:46.560 I mean, he had been shot once and he was 1298 01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:49.199 taking heavy gunfire before he was able to figure out 1299 01:19:49.239 --> 01:19:51.960 how to use this gun properly. Now he has the 1300 01:19:52.760 --> 01:19:56.920 you know, the whispers and everything of other cops saying, well, 1301 01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:00.119 you know, you know, they say that DJ McCarty kill 1302 01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:04.399 killed Jim Evans. So it was a really terrible experience 1303 01:20:04.479 --> 01:20:07.000 all around for for DJ McCarty, who was a really young, 1304 01:20:07.720 --> 01:20:11.319 young deputy at the time. So yeah, the blame goes 1305 01:20:11.319 --> 01:20:13.920 to this mysterious character Jerry Cone. 1306 01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:14.159 Uh. 1307 01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:17.359 Most of the time they're blaming Manny Delgado for being 1308 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:20.199 the one who who who's doing most of the shooting, 1309 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:22.199 and then you know they're just saying, oh, no, that 1310 01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:24.039 was Manny, No, that was Manny who was doing that, 1311 01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:28.239 and the other is DJ McCarty. So that was the 1312 01:20:28.439 --> 01:20:29.920 basis of a lot of their defense. 1313 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:36.399 Yes, it's also interesting when you talk about g J. 1314 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:44.199 McCarty also and the the idea that that Evans was 1315 01:20:44.239 --> 01:20:49.159 shot and that these uh, these perpetrators were all putting 1316 01:20:49.159 --> 01:20:52.680 it on each other and this mysterious Jerry Cohen. But 1317 01:20:52.920 --> 01:20:56.319 part of the defense of George Smith. Uh, they as 1318 01:20:56.479 --> 01:21:02.039 per customary, they hire an investigator to assist the defense lawyer, 1319 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:06.079 especially in a capital case like this. Again and just 1320 01:21:06.119 --> 01:21:10.319 another fascinating twist to this story. We don't want to 1321 01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:12.840 go too far into it, but what happens with this 1322 01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:14.399 investigator named Painter. 1323 01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:18.720 Yeah, I won't go too far into it for obvious reasons. 1324 01:21:19.239 --> 01:21:23.159 The most fascinating characters, if you will, I mean, I 1325 01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:25.399 never lose sight that these are real human beings on 1326 01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:28.239 both sides. But if you will, that characters are the 1327 01:21:28.399 --> 01:21:33.159 defense team of George Smith, and that is an attorney, 1328 01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:36.359 a real pitbull of an attorney both in looks and 1329 01:21:37.439 --> 01:21:41.159 an attitude, named Clayton Adams who who is fighting dinner 1330 01:21:41.239 --> 01:21:44.279 to save George Smith's life. And he is assigned a 1331 01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:48.159 investigator from the Public Defender's office named Jeanie Painter. And 1332 01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:52.279 Jeanie Painter is thirty three years old. She's a veteran investigator. 1333 01:21:53.319 --> 01:21:57.000 She has done hundreds of felonies before. She's considered extremely good, 1334 01:21:58.359 --> 01:22:02.960 also very Harry's heavy workloads. And investigators are you know, 1335 01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:05.520 needless to say, they're just absolutely critical to a trial. 1336 01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:08.520 They're they're out there gathering evidence, they're out there interviewing people, 1337 01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:12.720 they're orchestrating all everything in the courtroom for the for 1338 01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:16.199 the defense attorney. And Jennie Painter is say thirty three 1339 01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:19.079 years old, and she's she's very attractive. There's a bond 1340 01:22:19.159 --> 01:22:21.640 hair and uh you know, a real head turner around 1341 01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:25.720 the courthouse which is mostly men in that era, and 1342 01:22:25.880 --> 01:22:30.079 uh uh. As this trial moves ahead, and the trial 1343 01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:32.439 was moved out of a Riverside County down to San 1344 01:22:32.479 --> 01:22:37.760 Diego County, there begins this relationship that develops between Jeanie 1345 01:22:37.800 --> 01:22:39.880 Painter and George Wayne Smith. And a lot of it 1346 01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:41.720 had to do with a you know, where Jeanie Painter 1347 01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:44.600 was in her life, and she was she was still 1348 01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:46.359 as much of a veteran as she was, she was 1349 01:22:46.399 --> 01:22:49.079 still a young woman. She was now transferred away from 1350 01:22:49.079 --> 01:22:52.720 her family and under incredible stress and incredible workload. And 1351 01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:58.359 George Smith is a very compelling, it's very compelling, articulate guy. 1352 01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:02.640 And and so this relationship, and that's a kind word 1353 01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:05.199 for it, begins to develop between the two of them, 1354 01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:11.119 and and then soon turns into a lot of misconduct 1355 01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:13.600 on the part of Genie Painter, and she sort of 1356 01:23:13.640 --> 01:23:17.359 falls under the h the spell of George Smith. And 1357 01:23:17.399 --> 01:23:22.279 there's accusations of jail house sexual misconduct and smuggling drugs 1358 01:23:22.319 --> 01:23:26.960 into the prison or into the jail, bringing in naked 1359 01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:32.199 photographs of herself for George. And so Genie Painter really 1360 01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:38.159 takes a beating in this and it really suffers under 1361 01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:43.039 kind of a from this relationship that that she's developed 1362 01:23:43.079 --> 01:23:43.800 with George Smith. 1363 01:23:45.199 --> 01:23:47.079 Yes, incredible and you know, threaten. 1364 01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:49.600 It threatens to derail this entire trial. I mean in 1365 01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:51.680 this trial is now months. I mean in the end, 1366 01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:55.600 it took sixteen months this trial and between jury selection, 1367 01:23:55.720 --> 01:23:57.880 and this was late in the game that this this 1368 01:23:58.319 --> 01:24:02.479 bombshell revelation comes out. And when the jail says Genie 1369 01:24:02.479 --> 01:24:05.119 Painter is not allowed to visit George Smith and jail anymore, 1370 01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:08.680 we won't have this going on, and it almost creates 1371 01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:11.000 a mistrial in this at this late stage. But the 1372 01:24:11.079 --> 01:24:14.039 judge is just desperate not to have this trial end 1373 01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:17.920 after twelve months or fourteen months, so he manages to 1374 01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:20.880 keep it, to keep Genie Painter involved and keep the 1375 01:24:21.319 --> 01:24:22.199 keep the trial moving. 1376 01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:27.000 It's one of the most fascinating parts of this book 1377 01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:29.920 is the trial. Like you say, but what Chris Harvin 1378 01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:35.239 taking the stand and weaving this incredible story fable, But 1379 01:24:35.319 --> 01:24:39.520 it also hurts his fellow cohorts. 1380 01:24:39.039 --> 01:24:39.439 Doesn't it. 1381 01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:47.800 Yeah, it certainly does. In the process to Save You 1382 01:24:47.800 --> 01:24:50.079 the To Save You explained it a little bit, and 1383 01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:53.479 I do describe why the mechanics of the legal system 1384 01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:58.279 and trials kind of opens. Once Chris takes the stand 1385 01:24:58.319 --> 01:25:00.720 and he begins to tell his own story. He then 1386 01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:04.680 opens the door for evidence that had previously been excluded 1387 01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:10.600 to now being included including his statement, his confession or 1388 01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:13.920 or you know, statement to police, and as well as 1389 01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:16.960 the other guys which had actually been ruled out up 1390 01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:20.800 to that point because it implicated the others. You can 1391 01:25:20.840 --> 01:25:23.560 implicate yourself in a confession. But they were being tried together, 1392 01:25:23.720 --> 01:25:27.279 all three of these, Russ, Chris, and George were being 1393 01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:38.119 tried together. And yeah, so in the in the prosecutor 1394 01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:41.680 Jay Hanks just completely tears apart Chris Harvin on the 1395 01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:44.640 on the stand because it's just a it's a preposterous story. 1396 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:46.439 And Chris is trying to act like he's just this 1397 01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:49.800 innocent victim and never shot a gun, tried to stop 1398 01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:53.319 this from happening, and but he but he Chris has 1399 01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:57.399 opened up the door. So Jay Hanks just dismantles him, 1400 01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:01.279 and in the process, Chris implicates Russ. He effectively puts 1401 01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:05.119 a gun in Russ's hands at the as well as 1402 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:09.359 George at the ambush site during his testimony because his 1403 01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:12.920 confession he had mentioned it. And so you know, these 1404 01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:15.079 are guys are trying to trying to blame it on 1405 01:26:15.159 --> 01:26:18.680 Manny or on DJ McCarty, and you know some of 1406 01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:20.239 them were even George saying I was too weak. I 1407 01:26:20.239 --> 01:26:23.159 couldn't even fire. Others say I didn't even have a gun. 1408 01:26:23.880 --> 01:26:25.520 Chris is saying I was shot in the back, and 1409 01:26:26.439 --> 01:26:29.720 true enough. But so he didn't do it. But it 1410 01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:34.720 was a very big deal when when Chris Harvin for 1411 01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:38.119 throwing this hail Mary defense, this crazy defense, and then 1412 01:26:38.279 --> 01:26:42.159 ends up implicating, as they say, his best buddy George 1413 01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:45.119 Smith and his little brother putting a gun in their 1414 01:26:45.119 --> 01:26:47.039 hand that might have gotten them the death penalty. 1415 01:26:48.399 --> 01:26:53.199 Yes, very interesting, needless to say, what is the outcome, 1416 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:57.119 what do jurors decide and what's the sentence? 1417 01:26:57.199 --> 01:27:03.279 Well, yeah, they were. They were found guilty on forty 1418 01:27:03.319 --> 01:27:08.479 six major felonies, including kidnapping, explosives, twenty four counts of 1419 01:27:08.479 --> 01:27:11.560 attempted murder on a police officer. They were actually, you know, 1420 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:13.520 found guilty of the murder of Jim Evans as well 1421 01:27:13.520 --> 01:27:16.800 as Billy Delgado under the felony murder rule because they 1422 01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:20.439 started the firefight in which Billy Delgatto got killed. So 1423 01:27:20.520 --> 01:27:23.319 they had forty six major counts and then it went 1424 01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:26.119 into the penalty phase. And one of the more unusual 1425 01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:32.319 things in the penalty phase is Clayton Adams had George 1426 01:27:32.319 --> 01:27:37.640 Smith named a co council in it, and it allowed 1427 01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:42.000 George Smith to actually question some of his some of 1428 01:27:42.039 --> 01:27:45.920 his witnesses, or at least one of them during the 1429 01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:48.720 penalty phase. But it also allowed George Smith to give 1430 01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:53.039 a closing argument, but only if George would would refer 1431 01:27:53.119 --> 01:27:56.239 to himself from the third person, and so that made 1432 01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:58.479 it a kind of a creepy aspect to it, with 1433 01:27:58.479 --> 01:28:00.319 George Smith's standing up there, and this is the first 1434 01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:04.119 time anybody, any of the jurors had heard George Smith. 1435 01:28:05.680 --> 01:28:07.680 And what it did is allowed George Smith to kind 1436 01:28:07.680 --> 01:28:10.399 of make a statement about himself without being cross examined. 1437 01:28:11.159 --> 01:28:13.159 So it's a bit of a legal trick, and it's 1438 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:17.600 it's quite a speech George gives, and it is overflowing 1439 01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:27.840 with very with religious prophecy and very scholarly interpretations of 1440 01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:30.079 the Bible, which frankly lose a lot of the juries 1441 01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:33.239 dur along the way. But George is basically saying, George 1442 01:28:33.279 --> 01:28:36.079 Smith would never kill another human being. George Smith believes 1443 01:28:36.119 --> 01:28:38.920 in the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, George Smith 1444 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:41.800 would never do this. And it's a very odd moment. 1445 01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:45.640 And in the end they are sentenced to life without 1446 01:28:45.680 --> 01:28:51.239 parole rather than the death penalty, and a reporter comments 1447 01:28:51.239 --> 01:28:54.279 who had covered the entire trial, comments that he thought 1448 01:28:54.279 --> 01:28:56.840 it was sort of like Stockholm syndrome. You know, when 1449 01:28:56.880 --> 01:28:59.640 you spend that amount of time in a room as 1450 01:28:59.680 --> 01:29:03.000 the we had in the same room with three human beings, 1451 01:29:03.319 --> 01:29:05.159 no matter what they've done, you're just simply not going 1452 01:29:05.239 --> 01:29:08.600 to be sentencing them to death. So they did get found, 1453 01:29:11.079 --> 01:29:15.680 they were sentenced to life without parole, and that's that 1454 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:19.479 is where they remain today. Just a quick thing, Dan, 1455 01:29:19.800 --> 01:29:23.640 I'm sure people have commented before, well, you're telling so 1456 01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:25.880 much of the story, you know, how do you Why 1457 01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:27.079 do you tell so much of the book? And I 1458 01:29:27.079 --> 01:29:29.000 got to tell you, and I hope you'll agree, is 1459 01:29:29.039 --> 01:29:32.359 there is so much detail that goes into these just 1460 01:29:32.840 --> 01:29:36.199 fascinating details, and so much more that happened during that 1461 01:29:36.239 --> 01:29:39.880 pursuit that I haven't mentioned that. Uh, No one has 1462 01:29:39.880 --> 01:29:43.199 ever felt like I gave away the book by by 1463 01:29:43.399 --> 01:29:45.520 even by kind of telling what the major events are 1464 01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:45.800 in it. 1465 01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:49.560 No, I think it just prompts somebody to want to 1466 01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:53.079 read the entire thing, to catch everything that, to grab 1467 01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:57.800 everything and to understand everything that we've spoken about excitedly. 1468 01:29:57.880 --> 01:30:01.560 Both of us because it's such a fascinating, exciting tale. 1469 01:30:02.479 --> 01:30:09.680 The pursuit is incredible, these brave officers, the citizens running 1470 01:30:10.399 --> 01:30:14.039 a mock, the effect of this trial, so all of 1471 01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:17.199 these things, and we hadn't even touched on just one 1472 01:30:17.239 --> 01:30:23.279 little thing that again, it was interesting about George Smith's 1473 01:30:23.279 --> 01:30:27.119 father being dismissed from or quitting the police force after 1474 01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:32.760 he encountered resistance when he was being an honest cop 1475 01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:36.640 and found a corruption and again just another little thing 1476 01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:42.800 that added to George Smith's it seemed in conflict with 1477 01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:45.359 his character that George Smith would end up where he 1478 01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:48.880 did end up. So it's very, very fascinating how the 1479 01:30:48.920 --> 01:30:53.000 background and everything that you brought into the story factors 1480 01:30:53.119 --> 01:30:56.560 into this incredible, this incredible tale. 1481 01:30:56.840 --> 01:30:59.439 Well, you know, one of the elements of the seventies, 1482 01:30:59.479 --> 01:31:03.319 of course, was this uh what range from distrust or 1483 01:31:03.399 --> 01:31:09.520 adversarial kind of attitude towards police officers. You know, some 1484 01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:13.039 some people hated them, you know, thought them the foot 1485 01:31:13.039 --> 01:31:16.439 soldiers of the status quo, and uh, George and Chris 1486 01:31:16.479 --> 01:31:19.079 certainly didn't hate them, but they didn't trust them. And 1487 01:31:19.119 --> 01:31:21.760 George had that uh yeah, that experience in his family 1488 01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:25.279 where his father, uh was at Casper, Wyoming and arrested 1489 01:31:25.479 --> 01:31:27.520 two police officers who he caught in the middle of 1490 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:30.640 the night robbing a store on Main Street. And uh, 1491 01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:32.920 when he brought him back to the department, the he's 1492 01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:35.039 the one who gotta you know, they let him go 1493 01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:37.720 and said, what the hell are you doing arresting these guys? 1494 01:31:37.720 --> 01:31:40.640 And he found really kind of deep corruption and it 1495 01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:44.039 was very disillusioning. His father had always wanted to be 1496 01:31:44.079 --> 01:31:46.720 a cop, so that that was kind of circulating in 1497 01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:49.640 the family, this this idea that you can't trust policemen, 1498 01:31:50.199 --> 01:31:52.319 which made George and Chris even want to arm up 1499 01:31:52.399 --> 01:31:55.239 more because they felt their attitude was, well, cops kill 1500 01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:57.199 people if they find them. You know, if they catch us, 1501 01:31:57.239 --> 01:31:59.640 they're going to try to kill us. So uh, you 1502 01:31:59.640 --> 01:32:02.119 know they set out to kill any cops, but they 1503 01:32:02.239 --> 01:32:06.199 certainly certainly tried once they uh once they had these 1504 01:32:06.279 --> 01:32:08.199 uh once once the firefight began. 1505 01:32:09.399 --> 01:32:12.399 Yes, I want to thank you very much Peter for 1506 01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:14.880 coming on and talking about Norcowati, the true story of 1507 01:32:14.920 --> 01:32:18.560 the most spectacular bank robbery in American history. It's been 1508 01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:23.119 actually an absolute privilege and a thrill for me to 1509 01:32:23.159 --> 01:32:26.279 talk to and share this book with other people the 1510 01:32:26.359 --> 01:32:29.079 listener for those people that might want to look at 1511 01:32:29.079 --> 01:32:32.520 this as a website or Facebook page quickly that you 1512 01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:33.520 could refer us to. 1513 01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:37.279 Yeah, certainly, and thank you, Dan, I really appreciate it. 1514 01:32:37.800 --> 01:32:40.800 My website is Peterhulahan dot com. H o U l 1515 01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:44.920 A hj N. But really, the book is available everywhere. 1516 01:32:44.960 --> 01:32:50.079 There's an audiobook that's out now as well, was released 1517 01:32:50.079 --> 01:32:52.479 at the same time, so all the places you normally 1518 01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:56.479 buy books you can find this one. And uh so 1519 01:32:56.479 --> 01:32:58.760 so it's it's it's out there in the world and available. 1520 01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:03.600 Thank you very much, Peter Hulan, good night, Thanks Jim, 1521 01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:06.880 good night. M