1 00:00:05,639 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Vaughn, Barbecue editor at Texas Monthly, and this 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:13,599 his fire and Smoke, the Texas Monthly Barbecue podcasst brought 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:14,599 to you by Yetti. 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,559 Speaker 2: I hadn't really even planned to go to Mama Jean's. 5 00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:21,199 Speaker 1: I was just headed the long way down into Austin, 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,640 headed over to two to eighty one and came through 7 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:27,359 Lamb Passas and saw barbecue on the sign and thought 8 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:31,000 I'd stop. Little did I know that Mamma Jeans not 9 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:33,240 only would turn out to have really good barbecue, but 10 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:35,960 its owner, Johnny Walker, would have quite a story as well. 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,560 Let's head on down to Lamp Passas and visit with 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,920 Mamma Jean's and Johnny Walker. Johnny Walker, although he learned 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,159 how to barbecue from his uncle's, it was his mom 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,560 who taught him how to cook. He did, after all, 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,520 name his Lamb Passis restaurant, Mama Jean's Barbecue after her. 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 3: We named the restaurant after my mother, just because it 17 00:00:56,039 --> 00:00:58,840 would just be a shame for people not to know 18 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:02,640 what kind of influence so she was on myself and 19 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:05,920 my siblings. Serves five of us, and all of us 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,560 are really good cooks because of. 21 00:01:08,519 --> 00:01:10,519 Speaker 2: Her and Mama Jean taught him well. 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: He learned about spices and how to marry them into 23 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,799 the perfect crust around a pork rib. She taught him 24 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:19,200 how to be patient with a pot of greens and 25 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:22,480 how to achieve the perfect balance of tartan sweet in 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,159 a blueberry cobbler. But most importantly, she taught him how 27 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:31,319 to cook with soul. Growing up in South Dallas in 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,000 the nineteen sixties, Johnny didn't see a whole lot of 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,400 white people back then, the city was strictly segregated. 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,079 Speaker 2: The first white person. 31 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,239 Speaker 1: He remembers seeing up close was a customer at Carter's Barbecue. 32 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,239 To him, this was evidence of the magic of barbecue. 33 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,000 It brought people together and not in that romanticized version 34 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,400 of the notion. Barbecue caused him to interact with people 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560 he never would have otherwise. That experience stayed with him 36 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,519 as he got older. Johnny worked a lot of different 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,920 jobs growing up. His first job was selling ladies shoes. 38 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,319 He went on to be a private investigator, a singer, 39 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:09,400 and although this was hard to admit to us. 40 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,199 Speaker 3: You're gonna make me say I was a male model, 41 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 and I was. I was. I'll say it, Hey, can 42 00:02:18,039 --> 00:02:21,280 you imagine it. 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: It was around that time that his uncles taught him 44 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:29,120 the proper barbecue technique. That resulted in some trial and 45 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,080 error on his part. 46 00:02:31,039 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: What about the first time we almost got a fight 47 00:02:33,479 --> 00:02:36,080 doing it? Oh yeah, first time we fired up a 48 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,680 barbecue pit. Oh yeah, and we grabbed whatever would we 49 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:43,080 could find, Dude. So it wasn't even like sweet fruit 50 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,599 with I mean, it was just like whatever tumble we ate. 51 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: Dude. 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 3: It might have been, yeah, I mean, like that mosquit 53 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,080 I think, yeah they had. I mean, it wasn't right. 54 00:02:54,439 --> 00:02:57,680 The first thing we cooked was big turkey thighs, so 55 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,360 the meat came out tasting lack of land a turkey 56 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:11,080 charcoal and throw in a hint of starter fluid. It 57 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:11,960 was terrible. 58 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: Man, The knowledge passed on from the older generation eventually 59 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,280 took hold. Johnny learned how to cook barbecue in an 60 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:22,000 open pit in the ground and how to gauge the 61 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,960 temperature with just his hands. They cooked whole animals over 62 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,520 the coals. It represented a purest form of cooking barbecue. 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,400 It is all but gone today. 64 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: I love it when I hear the word purest as 65 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:44,560 it refers to barbecue coming from someone who's maybe been 66 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:49,479 cooking barbecue for ten years. Maybe they like to say 67 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,759 this purest thing, and there's no such thing. Really. All 68 00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:00,199 the barbecue purists, in my mind, they've all left the earth. Man, 69 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,319 They're all gone. Man. You know, there's no one that 70 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,400 I know of that's digging a hole in the ground 71 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,960 and cooking meat over a spit on top over the ground, 72 00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:18,439 or cooking it underground, that's purest. And unless you're doing that, 73 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,959 in my opinion, I don't know what purest is if 74 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:22,920 that's not pure. 75 00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:26,959 Speaker 1: When Johnny talks about purest technique disappearing, he's not just 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,560 talking about cooking over a trench. Johnny is keenly aware 77 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,839 of the history and influence of black pit masters, and 78 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:37,839 in Texas that history is largely ignored. I wrote a 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,759 review on Texas Monthly's website about Mama Jean's and mentioned 80 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:43,920 this faded history to Johnny. 81 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 3: This was long overdue, but I was online and I 82 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,240 saw that story that Daniel Vaughan did about not being 83 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:57,680 neglectful and not mentioning African Americans early input into barbecue 84 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,839 in Texas, and I saw that not just why its dagment. Really, finally, 85 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,040 you know, somebody's talking about the elephant in the room, man, 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,279 because we've disappeared from it. And there reasons far that 87 00:05:12,439 --> 00:05:18,279 while we've disappeared from, you know, the barbecue culture in Texas. 88 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,360 But it's wonderful someone for someone to mention, man, you know, 89 00:05:23,439 --> 00:05:26,480 to be up front about. Look, man, I know this 90 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,240 isn't what it was twenty twenty five years ago. 91 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: That influential history was much more than a rub recipe, 92 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:37,800 and it was the most important ingredient that Johnny learned 93 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:38,600 from Mama Jean. 94 00:05:38,959 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: I would say, there's definitely a thing as black and barbecue, 95 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,399 and I don't know where it is anymore because we're 96 00:05:47,439 --> 00:05:50,600 not really in the game anymore, not in Texas anyway, 97 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:56,199 and especially in Central Texas, for instance, soul food versus 98 00:05:56,199 --> 00:05:59,959 country cooking. A lot of the foods were very similar 99 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,959 that white people in the South and black people in 100 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,879 the South eight it was mostly the same. How it 101 00:06:06,079 --> 00:06:10,480 was prepared was different. Your black mom, your black grandmother, 102 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,319 She was actually in the kitchen singing that those things 103 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:17,959 were true. She was actually in the kitchen singing and 104 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,040 putting her heart and soul into what she was doing. 105 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,839 It wasn't something she was made to do. She wasn't 106 00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:28,120 doing it because she had to, you know. And I 107 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:34,319 think that's where the whole soul food thing came from, 108 00:06:34,519 --> 00:06:37,800 is they put their all into it, you know, And 109 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,480 it was a big source of pride. 110 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: That soul goes into everything that Johnny prepares today at 111 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,399 Mama Jean's. And although he learned to cook barbecue over 112 00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:52,399 a trench in the ground, Johnny understands about consistency. Walker 113 00:06:52,439 --> 00:06:56,040 has chosen to use a thermostat controlled rotisserie for his barbecue. 114 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,399 He said trying to replicate his uncle's methods in a 115 00:06:58,439 --> 00:07:01,360 restaurant would result in quote a lot of meat over 116 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:01,839 the fence. 117 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: The reason I cook the way I do is because 118 00:07:06,079 --> 00:07:10,720 it's very important. Once you put a flavor in someone's mouth, 119 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,920 the next time they come to your restaurant, they need 120 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,079 to experience that same flavor. Unless you're the one cooking 121 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,600 it every day, there's gonna be deviations. And so if 122 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:26,199 you've got this thriving business and there's a necessity to 123 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:29,120 have two or three pit guys, you know you're gonna 124 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,040 have some deviations in your food. 125 00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: Is choice of wood, it's pecan. 126 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,279 Speaker 3: In Central Texas, most people either use Oprah mosquito, or 127 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:41,439 a combination of both. I use pecan wood because it's 128 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,079 what I grew up on, and people tend to like 129 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,800 what they grew up on. All of my grubs and 130 00:07:49,879 --> 00:07:55,000 spices and seasonings in my whole entire life, my entire 131 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,000 cooking life have been geared towards pecan or hickory because 132 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,120 I grew up in a dollar Sarah. Everyone who taught 133 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,519 me how to barbecue. All of my uncles are from Oklahoma, Arkansas, 134 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,240 so I'm a pecan gud. 135 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: He keeps the menu as simple as it comes in 136 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:18,439 Texas brisket, ribs and sausage, the Texas Trinity, or all 137 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,160 there is to choose from. In the smoke meat category. 138 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,839 The sides are just slaw, beans, potato, salad, and greens. 139 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,759 There's homemade cobbler for dessert, and drinks come in a 140 00:08:27,759 --> 00:08:30,360 can or a bottle from the cooler. There are two 141 00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:33,159 sauces to choose from, one being a spicy hobb and 142 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,600 aarow variety. It's tamed a bit with pureed carrots and 143 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:40,120 blends nicely with Walker's original sauce. A sweet and salty 144 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,519 rub covers the ribs, which are tender and smoky balance 145 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:46,399 isn't the right descriptor. It's more like the brown sugar, 146 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:49,320 salt and smoke, or powerful enough to keep your taste 147 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,600 buds in a battle, but none of them win. The 148 00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:55,440 stout bark on the brisket has an almost candy like chew, 149 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,919 and the meat from the fatty end has a creamy 150 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,320 texture and a flavor reminiscent of care. Cooking with soul 151 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,440 is important to Johnny Walker, and so is family. Be 152 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,080 prepared for a hearty welcome when you walk through the door, 153 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,879 because to him, his customers are family. 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: I agree to everyone. I want him to. I want 155 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,519 him to feel good, man. I want the whole experience 156 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,879 to be a plus experience for them. And that's not 157 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:22,679 just the food. 158 00:09:23,919 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: Johnny Walker's okay with sharing his methods with people who ask, 159 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,360 but he's not quite ready to share those recipes just yet. 160 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: Notice I said yet. 161 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: I'm not going to be as stingy as the old 162 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:41,799 timers were with their products, right. I don't mind sharing. 163 00:09:42,639 --> 00:09:46,360 Guys coming here almost daily and want to know what 164 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,320 my cooking temperature is? Do I cook my brisket fat 165 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,120 side up? I'll share all of that information. I don't 166 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,960 have a problem sharing cooking times and cooking styles and 167 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,120 anything that I know about it, anything regarding barbecue, even 168 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,639 if it's not my practice. I've tried a lot over 169 00:10:05,639 --> 00:10:08,000 the years, so I can talk about it. But I 170 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,559 don't share my products. As far as my rugs and 171 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,279 my ingredients, I don't share that, you know. But I will, 172 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,200 I will, I will. I won't take it to the grave. 173 00:10:19,759 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: Lucky for us, though, that won't come anytime soon. And 174 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,919 wherever you are in Texas, Johnny Walker makes lamb passes 175 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:36,120 a little closer to home. The Texas Monthly Barbecue Fest 176 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,240 Weekend returns November third and fourth in Austin, serving up 177 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:42,200 top barbecue from around the state. New to the weekend 178 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,360 lineup is a Saturday evening kickoff party at Franklin Barbecue. 179 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,039 Then the big event is on Sunday, November fourth, at 180 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,279 the Long Center of Performing Arts. Tickets are on sale now, 181 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,759 come y'all and come hungry. See Texas Monthly dot com 182 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:57,360 slash tmbbq Fest for details. 183 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,399 Speaker 2: Now let's talk about yetti. 184 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: Texas barbecue is built from the ground up, from the 185 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,879 wood to the smoke to the meat. You have to 186 00:11:08,879 --> 00:11:11,600 have the right tools to create a masterpiece on butcher paper. 187 00:11:12,039 --> 00:11:15,759 YETI coolers have you covered? Built to be indestructible, keep 188 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:18,399 ice for days, and keep a brisket hot for hours. 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,399 Yetti is built for Texas barbecue. You've been listening to 190 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,039 Fire and Smoke Texas Monthly's barbecue podcast. I'm Daniel Vaughn, 191 00:11:28,279 --> 00:11:31,559 working with producer Brian Standiford, and I'll see you out 192 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,799 there on the barbecue trail.