Speaker 1: Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song.
Speaker 2: Today Adventist Radio London.
Speaker 3: It's talking point, it's talking point, it's talking point, it's
Speaker 3: talking point.
Speaker 1: Your conversations. You need to have.
Speaker 3: Good evening, good evening, good evening and welcome to talking Points.
Speaker 3: We're here on Adventage Radio London and I'm thanking you
Speaker 3: for joining us this Sabbath evening. I hope you've had
Speaker 3: a good sabbath whatever you've been doing, Where have you been,
Speaker 3: and that you're glad that you've joined us, and hopefully
Speaker 3: you're looking forward to the conversation just like we are
Speaker 3: as usual. I'm joined by my Christy co hosts. I've
Speaker 3: got Senya and Petro. How are you both?
Speaker 2: I am well, good evening to our listeners, leaving to
Speaker 2: our guess leading to you both. Ah, goodness, Where does
Speaker 2: the time go?
Speaker 3: Two days ago?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's did you ask for my week words?
Speaker 2: Or how I am?
Speaker 3: And how's the weekend?
Speaker 4: How is your weekend?
Speaker 2: And we okay, hectic a lot. I'm trying to cram
Speaker 2: in before I hibernate winter, so meeting up with friends
Speaker 2: and trying to get everybody you know situated and all
Speaker 2: the housekeeping and all that stuff done. But yeah, busy week,
Speaker 2: but productive, and I'm grateful for an opportunity to meet
Speaker 2: again and talk about another really important topic.
Speaker 3: How about you.
Speaker 5: I'm good, good, good evening, everybody, a second afternoon, Good evening, everybody,
Speaker 5: Welcome to talking point. My week has been, uh crazy
Speaker 5: because uh with my poor daughter. She fresh she broke
Speaker 5: her foot, then she had surgery on her finger, and
Speaker 5: now she has to wear a brace for like the
Speaker 5: next four weeks with her hand kind of cupped because attendant.
Speaker 5: So now she has to wear she has to wear
Speaker 5: this brace for like and do these hand exercises and
Speaker 5: stuff and so poort things. She just got over the
Speaker 5: brooken foot. Now she's got a hert hand and so
Speaker 5: I'm just hoping she gets you know well, And but
Speaker 5: that's not it for us. And in terms of work,
Speaker 5: is always as busy, very event very enlightening. Meet a
Speaker 5: lot of different types of people and have good conversations
Speaker 5: with them, learn different views and just the way people think.
Speaker 5: It is good to especially not from being from from here.
Speaker 5: It's good to get to learn other people's views and
Speaker 5: stuff like that I would never think about. So he
Speaker 5: has been it's been a pretty good week.
Speaker 3: Oh and how are you guys coping with the I mean,
Speaker 3: it's funny you said good afterning, good evening. It really
Speaker 3: does feel like evening evening now.
Speaker 1: Because of the because of that, yeah, because of the time.
Speaker 3: And we are in that season where it's getting dark
Speaker 3: from very air lips. So yeah, that's been interesting and
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of thrown me slightly off this week.
Speaker 5: You're getting used to that, but you know, yeah, I
Speaker 5: did that to my son because my son was off
Speaker 5: this week, and he was like, oh, can I go
Speaker 5: out and hang on some friends. I was like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 5: I was like, well, just come home at son. You
Speaker 5: know when remember you say come home when the light
Speaker 5: comes on when? So he was like, well, Dad, that's
Speaker 5: like four thirty. And I was like, wait four thirty.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, you're right. I forgot. That's like
Speaker 5: I'm thinking in my head five thirty six. You know,
Speaker 5: come home like when the sun is starting to go down.
Speaker 5: He was like, with d that's like at four thirty.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh wow, Like I just don't even
Speaker 5: realize it anymore. I think we get so wrapped up
Speaker 5: and just doing our regular routine that you don't even
Speaker 5: I'm out all day, so I see the sun come
Speaker 5: up and I see the sun go down, So it
Speaker 5: doesn't my days all mixed up.
Speaker 1: I just forget what they are most times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I hear that.
Speaker 4: I hear that.
Speaker 3: But we've made it through another week. So yeah, here
Speaker 3: we are. And as Senia said, we've got a couple
Speaker 3: of guests with us today, so we're going to introduce
Speaker 3: them shortly. And it's actually the start of November. We're
Speaker 3: on to another month already, another another month, I should say,
Speaker 3: and yeah, we're getting closer to twenty twenty five. But
Speaker 3: we're in the month of November, and traditionally, and from
Speaker 3: terms of awareness days, it's our Men's month. There's a
Speaker 3: big campaign called November that's nationally recognized that it's looking
Speaker 3: at men's health, best physical and mental health. So we've
Speaker 3: kind of jumped on that bandwagon and we're doing our
Speaker 3: men's months as well. So for the month of November,
Speaker 3: our shows are going to be dedicated to our men.
Speaker 3: And this week we've got two men on USh, two
Speaker 3: guests who play a big part in I guess the
Speaker 3: lives of men for our church. So we'll be listen
Speaker 3: meeting Devin Boyd and Leslie Douglas. So we're going to
Speaker 3: say quick hello to them. How are you both, and
Speaker 3: thank you for joining us. Hello, don't be shy, now,
Speaker 3: don't be shy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm fine, Thank you, good, good.
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. And Leslie, how are you?
Speaker 4: Good evening, Angela and good evening, Pego and Zena. I'm well.
Speaker 4: Thank you for the privilege of being here. It's really
Speaker 4: nice and I appreciate that. So yeah, I'm doing well.
Speaker 4: I'm doing well. I can't complain. I'll be wrong to
Speaker 4: complain considering other people are going through.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so thank you for joining us, appreciate that
Speaker 3: and looking forward to the conversation we're going to have
Speaker 3: with you guys today as usual. If you want to
Speaker 3: join in the conversation and connect with us, please do
Speaker 3: get in touch. We'd love to hear you Europeans and
Speaker 3: your thoughts as well. You can either email us at
Speaker 3: studio at Advantage Radio dot London, or you can what's
Speaker 3: appers on zero or plus four four zero sorry zero
Speaker 3: seven four five nine six four two eight nine eight.
Speaker 3: We can text us on eight triple two eight, write hope,
Speaker 3: leave a space and then write your message. Definitely, I
Speaker 3: would love to hear from You've got any thoughts on
Speaker 3: the conversation that we're having or any ideas around we
Speaker 3: were talking about men's ministry today. Do let us know.
Speaker 3: Do you get in contact? So we're going to get started.
Speaker 3: So to start off, we're going to ask our God
Speaker 3: to come into our presence and to join us on
Speaker 3: our show today. So let's pray. Oh my God, I
Speaker 3: want to thank you for blessing us with a wonderful
Speaker 3: daily Lord, and I thank you for the privilege of
Speaker 3: being on this in this space, on this platform that
Speaker 3: we can share a word, share a message, and talk
Speaker 3: about things that are pertinent to people that are listening.
Speaker 3: I pray, Dear Lord, that as we have this conversation today,
Speaker 3: that you will indeed bless it. And Dear Lord, it's
Speaker 3: an important topic important people within our communities. Dear Lord,
Speaker 3: and I pray that the work that's been done that
Speaker 3: you continue to bless it. If you bless everybody that's involved,
Speaker 3: And thank you for hearing and answering, and de Lord,
Speaker 3: please bless your show. This is my prayer.
Speaker 4: Amen. Amen.
Speaker 3: So, as I said, I mentioned this is November and It's,
Speaker 3: like I said, traditionally our men's months, so what better
Speaker 3: way to start it off is to really find out
Speaker 3: what's happening within our church, and we have, I said,
Speaker 3: as you've met very briefly Devon Boyd and Leslie Douglas,
Speaker 3: who are representing our men's ministry. Devon is our men's
Speaker 3: ministry leader for the SEC. I'm going to let him
Speaker 3: introduce himself a little bit more shortly, but I guess
Speaker 3: we'll be thinking about Men's Month. It's interesting we do
Speaker 3: a lot of them on the show. We do a
Speaker 3: lot of awareness raising kind of type of programs and
Speaker 3: often be kind of talking about themes and topics so
Speaker 3: sometimes aren't always discussed in church. Now there are men
Speaker 3: within our church, but sometimes I have to admit that
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily always know what's happening specifically for the men.
Speaker 3: I would often hear, and maybe it's just because I'm female.
Speaker 3: We'll hear about a lot of work going on for
Speaker 3: women's ministries and some of the other departments as well,
Speaker 3: but sometimes men's ministry I don't really.
Speaker 4: Hear that much.
Speaker 3: And now that could just be me, and I'll hold
Speaker 3: my hands up to that, but I don't know if
Speaker 3: it's as I'm sort say, I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: as kind of i'most going to say, well known, well received,
Speaker 3: or documented, or it's something that happens in all churches.
Speaker 3: And now, Xenia and Pedro, is that just me? Or
Speaker 3: would you say that's the case for yourselves? And that
Speaker 3: could just be me.
Speaker 1: Only the answer.
Speaker 6: I think I have.
Speaker 2: I have a similar perspective to you. I'm a female,
Speaker 2: so I mainly maybe I just pay attention more to
Speaker 2: what's going on for the women, and I'm not as
Speaker 2: aware of what's going on for our men. So yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe I should be putting my hand up as well.
Speaker 2: But hopefully Pedro you have a different perspective. So so
Speaker 2: waiting to hear your thoughts on it.
Speaker 5: Okay, well my thoughts are I think when it comes
Speaker 5: to men, we discount men. I'm not saying that right, No,
Speaker 5: we' we not discount them. We've It's like Mother's Day,
Speaker 5: Mother's Day. Everybody remembers Mother's Day, but on father's days,
Speaker 5: like you almost forget the father's day even come around,
Speaker 5: even like birthdays, like you know in this mother's birthday
Speaker 5: and it's the woman's birthday.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's my birthday.
Speaker 5: Is a birthday, but when the fun like, oh it's
Speaker 5: just your birthday, like you know, we get like the ties,
Speaker 5: but the mother gets you know, flowers and candies.
Speaker 1: And you know. I'm just being real, you know.
Speaker 5: And I think as men, we just like me as
Speaker 5: a male, like I for me personally as a male,
Speaker 5: it doesn't bother me because I just feel like, long
Speaker 5: as I know I'm doing my job is raising my
Speaker 5: kids and being as one with my wife and raising
Speaker 5: our household the right ray, I don't need all the
Speaker 5: like other But I'm not a big holiday or like
Speaker 5: celebration type of person anyway, So I'm not you know,
Speaker 5: I don't. I just feel like I just want to
Speaker 5: I like to be like in the shadow. I just
Speaker 5: like to do what I need to do and no fanfare,
Speaker 5: no you know, accolades or nothing.
Speaker 1: I just want to do what I gotta do and
Speaker 1: just keep moving along.
Speaker 2: So sorry to cut you going, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: What're just gonna say?
Speaker 2: Well, I was just wondering if that's if that's the
Speaker 2: crux of the matter, then that our men just get
Speaker 2: on with it.
Speaker 1: I think most men don't.
Speaker 5: Why Yeah, most men don't voice their opinion, don't voice
Speaker 5: that it may bother them, even voice that hey help
Speaker 5: out us, because I won't speak for other men. I'm
Speaker 5: just speaking for myself because I don't know, I don't
Speaker 5: always know other men, you know, think in that sense.
Speaker 5: I just think that we just it's been it's such
Speaker 5: a generational thing where we just are just kind of
Speaker 5: just forgotten about sometimes, you know, even even with our
Speaker 5: mental health, even with our well being sometimes because men
Speaker 5: are not supposed to be, you know, soft for men
Speaker 5: are not supposed to need help. Men are not supposed
Speaker 5: to you know, We're supposed to be the walk were
Speaker 5: supposed to be the foundation of the marriage. We're supposed
Speaker 5: to be the ones that, you know, when things are
Speaker 5: going wrong, we're supposed to be to want to pick
Speaker 5: it up and set it straight, get it right. So
Speaker 5: lot of times we don't get that, we don't get
Speaker 5: looked at that way because we're not supposed to be
Speaker 5: that way.
Speaker 1: And I just think that you know.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, you sure, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know what.
Speaker 5: I don't know what Leslie or Devin may say. They
Speaker 5: may tell they may say the total the opposite of
Speaker 5: what I'm saying, I don't you know, but I'm just me,
Speaker 5: just me personally. I just feel That's how I feel
Speaker 5: sometimes when it comes to, you know, one last thing,
Speaker 5: when a man, when I met one last thing, when
Speaker 5: a man does speak up, or whenever a man does
Speaker 5: say something, then we're complaining.
Speaker 1: We're whining. You know, what's soft? You know where babies?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: Stop complaining, you know, stop what's your problem? You got
Speaker 5: it easy, like you know, you know. Like so it's
Speaker 5: like it's a double sl we we're we're dawned if
Speaker 5: we I'm gonna say, Dawn, were dawn if you do
Speaker 5: if you do it, and we're dawn if you don't.
Speaker 5: Pretty much like we we're like walk on a hard place.
Speaker 5: We don't know which race as we just put their
Speaker 5: head down and keep going.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we've got mixed thoughts on this, So I
Speaker 3: guess I'm going to hand over to our experts as
Speaker 3: it were.
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert. Let's just make that clear.
Speaker 3: I say that in the sense of you know, I'm
Speaker 3: not you know. So over to Devon and Leslie. So, firstly, again,
Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us today. But just
Speaker 3: a little bit of get a bit of for us
Speaker 3: our listeners. Get a bit of a background about yourselves
Speaker 3: as well. Your name's may be familiar to some people
Speaker 3: for many who it's not, So what's up with Devon?
Speaker 3: Just introduce yourself, tellus a little bit about yourself and
Speaker 3: what you do and how you got into what you
Speaker 3: do as well.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, I'm Devon. Yeah. People call me p w P.
Speaker 4: I don't want it.
Speaker 6: And the reason why they called me, well, one of
Speaker 6: my colleagues at work they call me p w P.
Speaker 6: They called me pastor without portfolio. You know, that's what
Speaker 6: he calls me because he sees me as looking after
Speaker 6: being pastoring for all the men in the in the
Speaker 6: conference and stuff. Because that's what I do. I like
Speaker 6: to to minister to men, to look after men too,
Speaker 6: to help men when they're going through stuff, and support
Speaker 6: any programs if I can, or if we can possible,
Speaker 6: because there is many, many programs and they all want
Speaker 6: you there, but we can't get you know, sometimes there's
Speaker 6: five or six programs in one one sabbath and I
Speaker 6: can't get We can't, especially me. I can't get to
Speaker 6: all of them. I can only get to one indeed,
Speaker 6: and that's why it texts. Like you just said earlier,
Speaker 6: it takes a lot, you know, to get me on here.
Speaker 6: It's because I'm busy.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. This is why I appreciate I can
Speaker 3: testify that this is a very busy gentleman, but get him.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's so good.
Speaker 6: I do love this ministry, even though there are some
Speaker 6: low points where sometimes you know, when you do something,
Speaker 6: less men comes. And I don't know why less men
Speaker 6: want don't want to come to some of these events
Speaker 6: because they all say yeah, yeah, yeah at the beginning,
Speaker 6: and then when it comes to the crunch, you know,
Speaker 6: they don't turn up sometimes. And that's with women, you know,
Speaker 6: they just go. They just go to the events. It
Speaker 6: doesn't matter if they have ten children or five children
Speaker 6: or two children. They will make a way to go
Speaker 6: to the event. And men, we think they're you know,
Speaker 6: what's important? Is this event important? Or fixing the car
Speaker 6: is important? But they don't see as mental health as important.
Speaker 6: You know, sometimes we need to get away from things
Speaker 6: that we do every day and just join up with
Speaker 6: other men and have this conversation fellowship and what they were.
Speaker 6: So I love this ministry. How I got into this ministry.
Speaker 3: Wow, you're the starting the conference Men's Ministry coordinated.
Speaker 6: Yes, And how I got into this ministry? Well, first,
Speaker 6: I yeah, as I said, I'm Devil Boyd and I
Speaker 6: also do prison worship. I love music, I do present
Speaker 6: worship in a different way, and I also speak, I
Speaker 6: tried to. Anyway, I'm an elder better see as well.
Speaker 6: I'm married, I have two children, a wonderful wife was
Speaker 6: singing evangelist Michelle, and I have two boys, Noah and Isaiah.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 6: I work in the subce But I'm not going to
Speaker 6: say what deypartment because everybody be on the phone. But yeah,
Speaker 6: so that's what I do. And the Ministry of Men's Ministry.
Speaker 6: How I got in It's kind of a long story,
Speaker 6: but I was trying to cut it short. So basically,
Speaker 6: when I got when I got the call from the
Speaker 6: Secretary of the President saying I got email sorry and
Speaker 6: saying you know you need to call. We need to
Speaker 6: talk to you. And I spoke and they said they
Speaker 6: sent me an email asking requested me to be the
Speaker 6: Men's Ministry coordinator. And I couldn't believe it, but I
Speaker 6: didn't know if it was from the Lord. So I
Speaker 6: did a test. You know, I like to test God sometimes,
Speaker 6: And so I said, Lord, if this is for me,
Speaker 6: this is what I need you to do, right, I
Speaker 6: need to have read people phone in me or something
Speaker 6: just to confirm and THEEDS free confirmation to confirm that
Speaker 6: this is from you. And I went to sleep. And
Speaker 6: you know when they say be careful what you pray for,
Speaker 6: you get what I'm saying. So so, so I went
Speaker 6: to sleep. Then six o'clock in the morning, one pastor
Speaker 6: called me and said congratulations. I said, congratulations for what?
Speaker 6: Did I wear a new suit or did I get
Speaker 6: a new suit or whatever it?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 6: And they said, are you know your men's ministry coordinator
Speaker 6: one of my elder is going to be the men's
Speaker 6: ministry coordinator for the self inn conference. I said, the
Speaker 6: news hasn't even gone out yet. Time even said yes,
Speaker 6: and he said yeah. But I said, how did you know?
Speaker 6: I said, don't worry, I know a congratulations, I say thanks.
Speaker 6: So I got to go, and Pastor, I want to
Speaker 6: go back to sleep to go to work. I went
Speaker 6: back and then another phone call, and then another phone call,
Speaker 6: then congratulations, and I said, Lord, you said it wo
Speaker 6: get me even though the president the president at the time,
Speaker 6: he said to me, you know, why are you not
Speaker 6: saying yes? I said, I just need confirmation. I can't
Speaker 6: just say yes, right, this is this is a serious
Speaker 6: ministry for men I'm coming from. So I couldn't say
Speaker 6: just you know, I need the confirmation from God. And
Speaker 6: I've got the confirmation. He said, yes, so fur the
Speaker 6: present back and I'm so glad that he gave me
Speaker 6: time to get the confirmation and to think about it.
Speaker 6: And another thing is I have to ask my family.
Speaker 6: I believe if you don't ask your family for backing,
Speaker 6: you're finished. You get me. So you need to ask
Speaker 6: your family for back in, which I did, and my
Speaker 6: children say, yes, dam yes, we can go places.
Speaker 1: We go here and there.
Speaker 6: And then yes, but you need that kind of you know.
Speaker 6: Even though I got confirmation, I had to ask my
Speaker 6: wife and children that's okay with them, because because at
Speaker 6: the end of the day, especially when you take up
Speaker 6: this kind of post, you're not going to be around much.
Speaker 6: You get me, You're traveling all over the place. Your
Speaker 6: family might not come with you. So I had to
Speaker 6: get that confirmation and tell them that we're doing a
Speaker 6: lot of traveling et cetera, et cetera, and yes, and
Speaker 6: the rest of history, I'm still doing it. I love
Speaker 6: the ministry and I've got good, great, great co workers
Speaker 6: like Leslie and Basil. And I'll tell you this, like
Speaker 6: the like the Three Hebrew Boys, if you don't have
Speaker 6: good company, m yeah, because I always talk about the
Speaker 6: company that you travel with, and they always delight minded.
Speaker 6: You might you know, you won't get anywhere in life.
Speaker 6: You need to have that good company with you. Especially men.
Speaker 6: They need to have someone that's like minded so they
Speaker 6: can talk, they can you know, cry, whatever. So I
Speaker 6: thank God for Leslie, and I thank God for Basil.
Speaker 3: To you Lynn, oh, thank you so similarly, Leslie, tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit about yourself. Okay, yeah, what were
Speaker 3: you doing? Also how you got involved in mine?
Speaker 4: It's not as colorful as Devon, but my name is
Speaker 4: les Douglas. I attended Croydon Church. I have one wonderful
Speaker 4: wife who sings in the gospel. Quite got as blessed
Speaker 4: with her singing voice. I got involved in ends ministry
Speaker 4: probably about twelve years ago. When I first I won't
Speaker 4: say first, but lets when I first started going to Croydon.
Speaker 4: I'm not Adventist by a background. I'm a Pentecostal, so
Speaker 4: my background was it was different and still after all
Speaker 4: these years, still adjusting to some things. I think Petri
Speaker 4: touched on a lot of it, but it won't go
Speaker 4: there because we'll need two hours just for that.
Speaker 3: The part too. We always say this last year.
Speaker 4: Yes, so yeah, so a ten Quoyd and I have
Speaker 4: been involved in Men's Ministry from time i've been there,
Speaker 4: been the leader at one point, now acting as a secretary.
Speaker 4: I think for me, why I believe Meningitry supported, it's
Speaker 4: a forum that I believe the best people to understand
Speaker 4: men are men. And when you can relate to someone
Speaker 4: who have those lived experience, who can understand, who think
Speaker 4: the same kind of way you do, they're that same
Speaker 4: men from Mars women for Venus kind of thing. One
Speaker 4: helps your mental health that you think, okay, so it's
Speaker 4: not just me. Two, you can relate to people who
Speaker 4: understand you you're feeling as a man, I can't understand.
Speaker 4: I can sympathize with how women feels, but I can't
Speaker 4: understand because I'm not a woman. Mm hmmm, So I
Speaker 4: need a man who can understand exactly where you're coming
Speaker 4: from not you know, so I think that's important and
Speaker 4: we can share experiences, we can learn from each other,
Speaker 4: and I think it's about iron sharpening iron. I would say, oh.
Speaker 3: And that's that's a text that I think. I'm trying
Speaker 3: to think that that text is from that I actould look
Speaker 3: it up and yes, yeah, yeah, so that's definitely yeah,
Speaker 3: that's I've seen that written in Actually, when I was
Speaker 3: looking at the page on the SEC website about Men's Ministry,
Speaker 3: that's the text is there. So tell me a little
Speaker 3: bit about then, kind of an overview of your men's
Speaker 3: ministry and what it sort of main's mission and goals.
Speaker 3: Are you touched a little bit on that?
Speaker 4: Okay? To me that our main mission is to reach
Speaker 4: out to our men, to have a forum whereby we
Speaker 4: can come together to encourage, to enlighten, to support, and
Speaker 4: to kick each other. And I say that in the
Speaker 4: sense of when we're going in the right that wrong direction,
Speaker 4: sometimes we don't need a talk, we need a kick
Speaker 4: and have men strong enough to say, Okay, this is
Speaker 4: not a talking business. This is a kicking business though,
Speaker 4: to deal with, because sometimes we can be hard headed
Speaker 4: when we need a kicking, you know, in the nicest
Speaker 4: possible way. But it's about keeping it real. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think that's really important because I think, yeah, I think
Speaker 4: it's important. I think it's more so for me. It's
Speaker 4: about nurturing, it's about building, it's about being able to
Speaker 4: understand that a good leader, particularly in the home, is
Speaker 4: one who's who knows when to be led. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: and I'm still learning. I get a lot of things
Speaker 4: wrong and I'm still learning. And I think that's what
Speaker 4: it is. It's it's a production line where you're constantly
Speaker 4: churning and you're learning, and you're you know, and you
Speaker 4: may have to revisit a few times before it actually
Speaker 4: sits in because we can be hard headed. But the
Speaker 4: point is you're in the right place to get the
Speaker 4: right things for that you need, as opposed to being
Speaker 4: in the wrong place.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. So definitely, I mean less he's
Speaker 3: talking from and it's I guess it's talking I know
Speaker 3: he works with you and your team as well, but
Speaker 3: also from a local church level. Is that similar sort
Speaker 3: of thought process in terms of from a global then
Speaker 3: from a conference wide perspective?
Speaker 6: Yes, it is, as as Leslie said, you know the
Speaker 6: other I think with usked with the vision. We have
Speaker 6: a vision called m I c C. I think it's
Speaker 6: called m i CC if I got it right. Men.
Speaker 6: So men has to reach men so it will meet
Speaker 6: so men in the church and the community MCC. So
Speaker 6: what the vision we have is men reaching men, That's
Speaker 6: what because that's the I think that's the best thing
Speaker 6: that around for men to do. The men can only
Speaker 6: reach men. Young men can only reach young men, do
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? So this is what the
Speaker 6: vision that we have. But this year and my other
Speaker 6: vision is that, as Leslie said, we need to learn
Speaker 6: to look after each other as men when we're going
Speaker 6: through stuff. So it's a book that I used I
Speaker 6: read back in school called Off minde Some Men, And
Speaker 6: you know, I think the characters was George and Leny. Right.
Speaker 6: One was a bit you know, had a bit of
Speaker 6: a mental issue. You know, he wasn't really a good thinker.
Speaker 6: And the other one was he would look after all
Speaker 6: the situations. But one has a problem. The one who's
Speaker 6: strong and you know, will step in and help his friend.
Speaker 6: And and there's a phrase that they use in Off
Speaker 6: Mind Some Men, And the phrase that I always tried
Speaker 6: to tell the men is I've got you to look
Speaker 6: after me, and you got me to look after you.
Speaker 6: So basically we have to learn to look after each other.
Speaker 6: You get me no matter what happens. So so so
Speaker 6: if we're stuck somewhere, because I always tell men, testify
Speaker 6: in church wherever you are your story, not only when
Speaker 6: you're good, but also when you're not in a good
Speaker 6: situation I'm coming from, because you can help someone else.
Speaker 6: And so, just to tell a little story that was
Speaker 6: told in the way I'm talking about, is a young
Speaker 6: man fall in a hole. He fell in this hole
Speaker 6: and he didn't know how to get He tried to
Speaker 6: get out and he couldn't get out. So he's screaming
Speaker 6: for help, help, help, help, And a lawyer walks by.
Speaker 6: And a lawyer walks by, and here's the help, and
Speaker 6: he's and he and here's the scream and here's the help.
Speaker 6: And he said, Okay, throw some some money down in
Speaker 6: the hole, and he tells the He tells the young man,
Speaker 6: by yourself a letterer. So the young man goes, my, ham,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna buy myself a letter when I'm down in
Speaker 6: the hole, and he throws this mine. So he continues
Speaker 6: to scream, help, help, help, and the priest walks by. Okay,
Speaker 6: but I'm going to call this priete. A seventh day
Speaker 6: event is past away, So this seven day event is pasted.
Speaker 6: Two walks by, here's the the young man crying for help.
Speaker 6: Niel's done next to the hole and praise. And then
Speaker 6: when he finished praying, he said, seeing church next Sabbath
Speaker 6: walks up, and then another young so he continues, help, help, help,
Speaker 6: and a younger young man walks by. He there's the
Speaker 6: cry for help and jumps in the hole. And the
Speaker 6: guy goes goes, why did you jump in the hole?
Speaker 6: Why did you jump in that hole? Now we're both
Speaker 6: stuck in here, and the young man says, I've been
Speaker 6: in this hole before I found the way out. I
Speaker 6: jumped in the hole so I can show you the
Speaker 6: way out. Meaning if we both help each other out
Speaker 6: in whatever situation we're in, and the one person knows
Speaker 6: the way out, he can help the other person go
Speaker 6: out of that. I'm saying this, that's deep, and so
Speaker 6: that's what I'm saying. We we as men, you know,
Speaker 6: we need to help each other in any situation we can,
Speaker 6: and even if we know the way out, because if
Speaker 6: we testify and people hear it in church or I
Speaker 6: hear it in the community, and they're in that same situation,
Speaker 6: you can have a wonderful conversation, Okay, showing your way out.
Speaker 6: That's one of the visions that we have.
Speaker 1: I have a question on tw that. Sorry I said
Speaker 1: I had a question. I had a question.
Speaker 5: I had a thought on to that in today's generation.
Speaker 5: In today's generation, the journation that we are now, how
Speaker 5: hard is it to get a young man to listen?
Speaker 5: Because I find it as as you know, like they
Speaker 5: say the ogs will be considered like the ogs. They
Speaker 5: don't respect the ogs like they used to, and we,
Speaker 5: you know, we can tell them how we like.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is like.
Speaker 5: I have three small kids who are sixteen, fourteen, and ten,
Speaker 5: and I have a sixteen year old.
Speaker 1: He's the boy.
Speaker 5: When I tell him something, I would say to them
Speaker 5: like if I'm telling you, if I'm asking you a question,
Speaker 5: I already know the answer to it. I'm just asking
Speaker 5: you to see if you're gonna tell me the truth
Speaker 5: or tell me what you're really going through. Do you
Speaker 5: find it hard sometimes with the younger with the younger men,
Speaker 5: the young of the boys to get them to listen.
Speaker 5: I mean that's with like jumping in the hole to
Speaker 5: get them back out, Like we'll jump in and say
Speaker 5: I'm in here with you to show you how to
Speaker 5: get out, but then getting them to listen. How you know,
Speaker 5: how hard is that? And I hate I don't be
Speaker 5: like devil advocate, I just because I find that very
Speaker 5: I find that because like, just like you guys, I
Speaker 5: was listening to you guys, it was so funny, like
Speaker 5: my ministry is hit my marriage podcast, and my wife
Speaker 5: is also a singer. So I was just laughing when
Speaker 5: you both said my wife is a singer. I'm into
Speaker 5: the men's ministry. My ministry is like towards married men
Speaker 5: and trying to, you know, help married men with their marriage.
Speaker 5: But I find sometimes when you tell people things, even
Speaker 5: though you've been through those things, it's just getting them
Speaker 5: to to to listen to like to comprehend. Do you
Speaker 5: find that difficult sometimes? I guess that would be mine.
Speaker 6: Okay for me, I'm not sure what Leslie was gonna say, sorry,
Speaker 6: But for me, my relationship must started with my son.
Speaker 6: For example, when I have a relationship with when I
Speaker 6: had the relationship with him. It's how you act and
Speaker 6: it's what you tell them in your relationship from when
Speaker 6: they were born. You get I'm going from and when
Speaker 6: you have that kind of relationship. This is funny because
Speaker 6: my son brought me just you know, it's going is
Speaker 6: at union now, but he brought me something and it
Speaker 6: says something about good leadership or something like that. So
Speaker 6: I thought, so I asked him and I spotted him
Speaker 6: by it, and he said, the reason why I brought
Speaker 6: you this bought because I think that you have been
Speaker 6: a good leader to me and I'm going to take
Speaker 6: that what you've taught me with me while I'm at UNIQ. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and it's because we have that relationship from the beginning. Okay,
Speaker 6: I have a relationship where you know, if you know,
Speaker 6: you do things together, you know, fix things together. And
Speaker 6: then when you achieve that, you are high five that
Speaker 6: sort of thing, and and you hug your son no
Speaker 6: matter how tall they are, no matter you are, kiss everything,
Speaker 6: and you tell them you like you have that you
Speaker 6: have that kind of relationship with them. Once you get
Speaker 6: that relationship, they will tell you anything. It just depends
Speaker 6: what kind of relations relationship is important. You know what
Speaker 6: I mean? When God has a relationship with us, or
Speaker 6: we have a relationship with him. It depends how the
Speaker 6: relationship is going. If you keep everything a secret, you're
Speaker 6: not having a good relationship. You've got to somehow, you know,
Speaker 6: have that you know, like a like for example, you
Speaker 6: have like a you come on from church, what do
Speaker 6: you do? You will go to your separate rooms and
Speaker 6: watch your you know, the iPad or or whatever. Or
Speaker 6: you sit as your family play a game you get me,
Speaker 6: or watch your film together. You know, that's what we
Speaker 6: do on Saturday night. We watch a film together, we
Speaker 6: play games or whatever. You get me. This is that
Speaker 6: kind of relationship. And you know I always say I'm
Speaker 6: going to win all the time. They all love me,
Speaker 6: you know, because I never win anywhere. But I just
Speaker 6: dropped that in you know what I mean. Or we
Speaker 6: talk about the other day, I spoke at a church
Speaker 6: and I had to talk about men's health. And I'm thinking,
Speaker 6: how am I going to do? What am I going
Speaker 6: to talk about men's health in the Bible? Wait, I'm
Speaker 6: searching about men's health. But when I have a conversation
Speaker 6: with my son, I text my son and we have
Speaker 6: a conversation about it. He's eighteen. I have a conversation
Speaker 6: with him, that is the kind of relationship we have,
Speaker 6: and he will say, oh, that's interesting, and then he'll
Speaker 6: come up with something I so yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Speaker 6: when you put it all together, I had a sermon yeah,
Speaker 6: because I have that relationship with my son, because I
Speaker 6: realized now that whatever happens, he will talk to me
Speaker 6: about anything. Now outside that. With the young people at church,
Speaker 6: when I was speaking up front, they don't like fake ness.
Speaker 1: No they don't.
Speaker 6: If you're fake, they ain't talking to you. It's what
Speaker 6: you do. They will see you get I'm coming from.
Speaker 6: So if you're doing this, they will say, okay, boy,
Speaker 6: you're fake.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go somewhere else.
Speaker 6: That you have to have. So wherever I go and
Speaker 6: I speak, a lot of young people come up to
Speaker 6: me and they want to talk to me because they
Speaker 6: don't have that conversation that they have with the family.
Speaker 6: There's something wrong. So we have to try our best
Speaker 6: as men, because young people are looking up to us
Speaker 6: in church right they have no ways, they're looking at
Speaker 6: us as role models. And if we're not doing the
Speaker 6: right thing in church, they will find somewhere else to
Speaker 6: go or someone will say I'll give you a pair
Speaker 6: of trainers to do something for me, and they will
Speaker 6: go that way, or they will look at somewhere else,
Speaker 6: they will look at someone else to If we can't
Speaker 6: get the answer in the church, because there is no
Speaker 6: one to talk to, we have to have the patience
Speaker 6: and the time to sit down and listen to them
Speaker 6: because we're not the older men are not getting in stressed.
Speaker 6: Young people are going through stress as well. The problem
Speaker 6: is they have no one to talk to where they're
Speaker 6: going to go, so they go outside.
Speaker 2: Your sorry, go carry on a delay here. I was
Speaker 2: just wondering, are you are you targeting a specific age
Speaker 2: in your events and your your focus or does everyone
Speaker 2: come together in the events, come together in the meetings
Speaker 2: from the eighteen year old to the eighteen year old.
Speaker 2: How how do you kind of streamline that to get
Speaker 2: our young men talking to our young men, or even
Speaker 2: our young men talking to our elders.
Speaker 6: When we do events, I try to target from eighteen
Speaker 6: to upwards. Okay, but it's very difficult, so you have
Speaker 6: to do separate programs sometimes, and then when you do
Speaker 6: the separate programs, then there's a day you joined them together.
Speaker 6: But It's interesting when I had the last when I
Speaker 6: went to Wilsdon's Men's Men's retreat, because it's interesting that
Speaker 6: a young man just went up to the front because
Speaker 6: he wanted to say something, and I thought, wow, no
Speaker 6: one forced him, but it's probably the relationship he has
Speaker 6: with the leader and he was able to go up
Speaker 6: the front and say what he feels about what was
Speaker 6: happening in this retreat. And I thought, Wow, for a
Speaker 6: young man to do that, it's amazing, do you know
Speaker 6: what I mean? And sometimes I feel sometimes we need
Speaker 6: to change the way we because you know, after COVID,
Speaker 6: we need to we should change the way we do things.
Speaker 6: But we've gone back to doing the things that we
Speaker 6: used to do before COVID, do you know what I mean? Definitely,
Speaker 6: because we've got people come into the church after COVID,
Speaker 6: and we keep going back. You know, when we have
Speaker 6: our church, we have all this long list in the
Speaker 6: booklet of how you know divine service And before we
Speaker 6: were talking about this we should change, which is changed
Speaker 6: at the end of we haven't really changed. We've just
Speaker 6: gone back to our old ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love tradition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just about to say tradition tradition.
Speaker 5: That's that's we We fell prey to that, just like
Speaker 5: other denominations before pray to being traditional, and we need
Speaker 5: to stop. Do we need to be able to think
Speaker 5: outside the back Sometimes you do.
Speaker 6: Have to because even with afternoon programs. So I don't know
Speaker 6: if Leslie agrees with me, I don't mind bather study.
Speaker 6: We should have Baba study. I don't mind those sorts
Speaker 6: of things. But the afternoon program was really for young people.
Speaker 6: I was saying to walk past her. The afternoon program
Speaker 6: should be for young people and they should be the
Speaker 6: one running it.
Speaker 1: Well, isn't it called a y Yeah, which is what.
Speaker 6: Society right. So what I'm saying, right, they should be
Speaker 6: able to do those sort of programs, right. But what
Speaker 6: happens is that because the young people, there's no young
Speaker 6: people they have Bible study, or there is young people,
Speaker 6: but they're still going ahead with Bible study. And then
Speaker 6: where are the young people to go to Bible study?
Speaker 6: They're not interesting. And I'm not saying that Bible study
Speaker 6: is wrong. All I'm saying is sometimes we need to
Speaker 6: get young people to say, look, I want to talk
Speaker 6: about this, because at the end of the day, when
Speaker 6: they step out of the church. They're facing the worldwide.
Speaker 6: When they finish school, they're going to UNI, They're facing,
Speaker 6: you know, what's happening outside, and we're not teaching them
Speaker 6: how to behave outside, or to sort out the budget,
Speaker 6: or to how to you know, we're not doing those
Speaker 6: conversations or the birds and the bees so so so
Speaker 6: so they now will find a conversation outside, and the
Speaker 6: thing about church right with come to faintness. Some of
Speaker 6: them will say to me, and I'm telling you the
Speaker 6: truth because I don't know, you know, if you know,
Speaker 6: they say. Sometimes some of them say, when I reach
Speaker 6: eighteen and they go to UNI, as the song says,
Speaker 6: they're free at last, free at last because nothing is
Speaker 6: happening inside.
Speaker 5: I totally agree with you on that, but I think
Speaker 5: especially if they go away, like I'm from Bermuda, Yeah,
Speaker 5: growing up in New York, and I always think about this,
Speaker 5: like a lot of the kids that I went to
Speaker 5: I went to church, I went to Northeastern and Great
Speaker 5: New York and New York and behind and I will
Speaker 5: say seventy percent of my classmates are no longer adventors
Speaker 5: or not even practicing seven being seven inventors once they
Speaker 5: hit uni.
Speaker 1: They flew the coop. They just like you said, free
Speaker 1: and lives.
Speaker 5: They just they were just biding their time and so
Speaker 5: they can get out the house. And once they get
Speaker 5: out the house and they got to taste of the outside,
Speaker 5: because they didn't get that, you know it, they just
Speaker 5: totally left.
Speaker 1: And some have left and come back. I left and
Speaker 1: came back.
Speaker 5: But I totally, I totally get what you're saying, because
Speaker 5: I think we'll back on a little bit what you're
Speaker 5: saying because I think about that. I think transparency is
Speaker 5: the most important thing, and I think it works even
Speaker 5: not with junk people, works with older people too, because
Speaker 5: as me being fifty, if I'm looking at somebody talking
Speaker 5: and he's talking a bunch of like I call it
Speaker 5: a use cast salesman, I don't I tune out. Even
Speaker 5: at fifty, I'll tune out. I won't listen because I'm like,
Speaker 5: he's not being real. Like you can tell when somebody's
Speaker 5: being genuine and when somebody's just up there talking to
Speaker 5: just talk, you know, if they're talking and they say, oh,
Speaker 5: if you know, if you do it, if you buy
Speaker 5: this book for nineteen ninety nine, I can show you
Speaker 5: the way you're like, as soon as they do that,
Speaker 5: I shut down.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, nope, you know, like he's my money.
Speaker 5: Like, I don't know why this is my thinking, but
Speaker 5: I I totally agree with what you were saying about
Speaker 5: with and reaching the different demographics are men.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and well I'll let Leslie talk because I'm talking
Speaker 6: too much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, you know, for me, a
Speaker 4: lot of devins of this true. I think there's two
Speaker 4: words I'd probably use. One would be relationship and the
Speaker 4: second one would be intentional. And I think with our
Speaker 4: young people, you cannot give advice. I wanted to talk
Speaker 4: with young people. If you don't have a relationship with them,
Speaker 4: they're just not going to want to know. Number one.
Speaker 4: I think what has helped me it's been part of
Speaker 4: Pathfinders because you're working with that group. And what I
Speaker 4: found my personal experience was before, prior to being in Pathfinders,
Speaker 4: you will see them, you say hello, and they may
Speaker 4: say hello to you. But what I found being in
Speaker 4: Pathfinders now they will come and say hello and make
Speaker 4: it a habit to make sure they're come and say
Speaker 4: hello to me. And people will come and say loo
Speaker 4: to me. That I weren't even having those conversation with before,
Speaker 4: simply because sitting in a class with them in path Finders,
Speaker 4: going on camp with them, and having a different kind
Speaker 4: of relationship with him outside of church. They remember that.
Speaker 4: I remember one guy who doesn't even go to our church,
Speaker 4: but he comes to our Pathfinders and after camp meeting
Speaker 4: we had the camp it finished was at church one
Speaker 4: day and all I heard it was less less when
Speaker 4: I looked around it with him and he was introducing
Speaker 4: me to his family. They don't go to church. I
Speaker 4: was with him today actually going through some stuff with him.
Speaker 4: And what that does is that builds bonds and relationship
Speaker 4: because what I tend to do is try to find
Speaker 4: something we have in common. And nine times out of
Speaker 4: ten it's sports, since either football. So I have banter
Speaker 4: with them. There's a fewer support Man's City for your arsenal,
Speaker 4: So I'm always telling them that if you be, I'm
Speaker 4: going to bury you. Know, I'm going to burry you.
Speaker 4: So we have this all the time, this banter. And
Speaker 4: you know, some of the directors said to lest you
Speaker 4: can't say that, but I'm going to I'm going to
Speaker 4: bury him, bury him. So we have this banter and
Speaker 4: then when they misbehave, I'll be chasing him like a
Speaker 4: kid around it. But I'm going to kep and I
Speaker 4: catch up going to bury, you know. So we have
Speaker 4: this banter and and because of that, it builds a bond.
Speaker 4: So now when I come and have a conversation with them,
Speaker 4: they intend to listen. They intend to listen. And it's
Speaker 4: the same thing now being part of the teen's ministry.
Speaker 4: You build relationships with people. You know, we have meetings
Speaker 4: every Wednesday by the stead of Wednesday, so you have
Speaker 4: so when you do see them now and you have
Speaker 4: a conversation with them, you know, and they's say two
Speaker 4: things like oh yeah, not too bad. You know, I
Speaker 4: have a bad week bla blah blah blah. Don't say
Speaker 4: I pray for you free for them right there, and
Speaker 4: then they appreciate that so much. Sometimes they'll be like,
Speaker 4: what pray now, because well, yeah, we're at church and
Speaker 4: we why why delay? And you'd be surprised that one
Speaker 4: little thing they remember that, and that could be they're
Speaker 4: cracking the door that you're looking for. So it's about
Speaker 4: building relationship and being intentional about things, you know, going
Speaker 4: out his way and saying how are you doing? You know,
Speaker 4: even in talking their friend just and I think that's
Speaker 4: what's important. And when they see that, then they'll start
Speaker 4: slowly opening up. And I think one of the challenges
Speaker 4: we have as older folks is that we weren't probably
Speaker 4: taught how to do that by our parents. And what
Speaker 4: we have to do is teach ourselves, you know, so
Speaker 4: that we have those skills. And that's something I learned
Speaker 4: from my mum, that what she did was understood her generation,
Speaker 4: where she came from, but also understood where I'm coming
Speaker 4: from as a child, and like Christ did meet you
Speaker 4: at the point of your need, where you're at, not
Speaker 4: where you should be, but where you're at. And that's
Speaker 4: what my mom did with me and something I learned
Speaker 4: with my children. I've got children who are in their
Speaker 4: thirties now, and even now, they still want their time
Speaker 4: with me. If I've not been with them for a
Speaker 4: time and we talk a lot, if I've not physically
Speaker 4: been with them anything. It's like my daughter Dad was
Speaker 4: what's go on in? What's guan in? When I hear that,
Speaker 4: I know what that means. And if I go and
Speaker 4: spend time with her and Michael hears that, it's like
Speaker 4: he's on the fight, what's going on? Where's my time?
Speaker 4: And I've had that from since there were children, and
Speaker 4: even now the adults they still want that because you've
Speaker 4: built and they'll talk to me about things that we
Speaker 4: did when they were younger that I've forgotten about. So
Speaker 4: it's relationships and it's really important. And when you sit
Speaker 4: down and talk to people about their interest, not just
Speaker 4: what you want to get across to them, but talk
Speaker 4: about what they want to talk about. Because when you
Speaker 4: constantly talk about things you want to tell them, all
Speaker 4: they see you as is like a headmaster. You're not
Speaker 4: interested in them. You're just interested in them in that
Speaker 4: they do that they're not causing any problems. So it's
Speaker 4: like a tree. You want to get rid of the
Speaker 4: tree than go to the route. You're going to the branches,
Speaker 4: cutting the branches, and they wonder why is it still growing?
Speaker 4: So they want to talk about things that interest them,
Speaker 4: and you know, and they'll talk language and it's like,
Speaker 4: well it's different. I don't understand what they're saying different,
Speaker 4: And I asked them and they'll laugh at me, and
Speaker 4: we have this banter.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: I remember one year I said, and they asked me, aless,
Speaker 4: I'm old to you, and I told them they're like, okay,
Speaker 4: Karen and teaching the class. About two minutes later, one
Speaker 4: of them said to me, uncles, did you know Moses
Speaker 4: because and that's their way telling me you're old man.
Speaker 4: So we have this banter, and you've be surprised how
Speaker 4: something as simple as that goes to what sort of
Speaker 4: things they enjoy doing outside of church, what sort of
Speaker 4: the school? And when your intentional about them, they will
Speaker 4: come and talk to you about things they really do.
Speaker 4: So it's about relationship and being the intention about it.
Speaker 4: Those are the two words I would probably.
Speaker 6: Say before if I ask another question. There's something important
Speaker 6: that Leslie said which I always like to say that
Speaker 6: young you know us men older men to be a
Speaker 6: role model, we have to be involved in something that
Speaker 6: they do, and I didn't. I'm still trying to get
Speaker 6: why men don't want to do part Finders. I'm still
Speaker 6: trying to get that into my head because there are
Speaker 6: a lot of young men or young boys in parth Finders,
Speaker 6: and most of the people that are doing counselors or
Speaker 6: or or master guides or leaders there. Most of our ladies.
Speaker 6: There's hardly any men. And for us to have that
Speaker 6: relationship with young people, we've got to be involved in
Speaker 6: some of the stuff they do. And one of them
Speaker 6: is Pathfinders. And I'm telling you, if you're in path Finders,
Speaker 6: you get you know, I'm in part Finders. I'm teaching
Speaker 6: my class. And men they give you they call your uncle,
Speaker 6: as he said, you call uncle. They give you enough respect,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, because you're there with them.
Speaker 6: And that's that's that's that's what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really important. I mean I had important one
Speaker 4: student who went to on holiday one summer to America,
Speaker 4: and she came back and she said, Macha, let's I got
Speaker 4: you something. I'm like, really, and she brought me a
Speaker 4: tie and the clature to match with it. And that
Speaker 4: touched me. It really touched me because once she didn't
Speaker 4: have to do it. But more importantly, why he touched
Speaker 4: me was that it made me realize that while she
Speaker 4: was away on holiday in a different country, she was
Speaker 4: still thinking about it. That's right, and and that was
Speaker 4: just so powerful, so powerful. Now and she's introduced to
Speaker 4: her friend, so I now know her friends and they
Speaker 4: come and say hello, and it just goes and goes
Speaker 4: and goes, and it's so important. And that's all that
Speaker 4: through pathfinders because you're with them in a time for
Speaker 4: them at camp, you're going through different things with them,
Speaker 4: learning different things, you know, and and it just it
Speaker 4: just builds that bonds and it's really it's really good
Speaker 4: and I think, you know, it's a shame that we
Speaker 4: don't have more men in it, but it's just a
Speaker 4: way that you can learn to to to relate to them.
Speaker 4: You have to relate to them on terms that they
Speaker 4: can understand, you know, and that they're comfortable with, and
Speaker 4: allow them to just say A to you. That's all
Speaker 4: they want to say. When they're ready to say B,
Speaker 4: they will say that. But just give them that space.
Speaker 6: And I think it's with that relationship when they grow older,
Speaker 6: they'll be able to talk to you about anything. And
Speaker 6: that's the that's the topic, you know, because what they
Speaker 6: are looking for role models. We're supposed to be role models.
Speaker 4: That's why a lot of them join gangs and things
Speaker 4: because they're looking for something that they can call a
Speaker 4: family if you like, you know, they want to fit in,
Speaker 4: they want to be feel important, they want to feel
Speaker 4: that they're seen and not just heard, that they're seen
Speaker 4: in a way of I know you, how are you doing.
Speaker 4: Let's have a chat that they're seen acknowledged. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's ironic that you both were talking about that. Angela.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna get you for a minute, because I was
Speaker 5: just telling my wife that because I grew up in
Speaker 5: Pathfinders and as I got older, we just the churches
Speaker 5: I went to just and have it, and we don't
Speaker 5: have path finders up here really in some of the churches.
Speaker 5: But I was just saying to my wife that, you
Speaker 5: know what, because we look at the move and I
Speaker 5: was like, we moove, we need to move like near
Speaker 5: a church that has Pathfinders because I want our children
Speaker 5: to start going to Pathfinders, because I think, like what
Speaker 5: you said, it is just a it's growing up. I
Speaker 5: was in a church school all day Monday through Friday,
Speaker 5: church on Saber for this Sunday, I was in Pathfinders.
Speaker 5: I develop a big, strong relationship with a lot of
Speaker 5: people because I saw them seven days a week, like
Speaker 5: minded teenagers, like minded children.
Speaker 1: You know that we can all fall back on.
Speaker 5: We have our rep sessions on Saturday evenings after a y,
Speaker 5: we have a social and it just helped us to
Speaker 5: navigate through things that we was all going through, you know.
Speaker 5: And to your other point about I think when we
Speaker 5: talk to young people and even to adults, I think
Speaker 5: it's a matter of.
Speaker 1: When we talk.
Speaker 5: It's more also about what I use in marriage term
Speaker 5: active listening, where we listen, because a lot of times
Speaker 5: young people have a tendency to shut down because if
Speaker 5: we're doing all the talking, or we're not letting them
Speaker 5: tell us what they feel and actually listening to what
Speaker 5: they feel and taking it in. They can recognize that too,
Speaker 5: and they say, well, he's act like he's listening, but
Speaker 5: he's not really listening. So they kind of shut down,
Speaker 5: and then they don't tell us what they really are,
Speaker 5: what they really are thinking. And then with that not
Speaker 5: judging them or not saying to them, hey, you know,
Speaker 5: why would you do that? You know, how could you
Speaker 5: be like, you know, like just listening to them and say, Okay,
Speaker 5: how can we work this out? What can we do
Speaker 5: to make you do better next time?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: So I think that's a big important part. And with
Speaker 5: you guys, with your ministry and how you deal with
Speaker 5: men and stuff is just listening to them and then
Speaker 5: like giving ideas or just help them navigate through what
Speaker 5: they what problems they're going through. So that's what I
Speaker 5: got from just listening to you guys. I'm sorry, it
Speaker 5: was just on my mind. But definitely path find the
Speaker 5: thing that path find the thing is definitely is definitely
Speaker 5: a point that is well taken because we need we
Speaker 5: need more of that because it definitely builds character. And
Speaker 5: you know, do they still do the well, you know,
Speaker 5: you get the badges and stuff with the yes, Okay, yes,
Speaker 5: it's been so long.
Speaker 1: I don't I can't listen.
Speaker 4: Such with pride. I even teased them when they've got
Speaker 4: more than me, I'm like, listen, we need to make
Speaker 4: a deal here. You've got more than me. How can
Speaker 4: we what can we do swap here? How these fun
Speaker 4: things with them and encourage them and oh yeah the woodland,
Speaker 4: how to how to do six points of knowing how
Speaker 4: to set up a tent? Yeah, I remember, I remember
Speaker 4: it all like a point. It's really good. I've learned
Speaker 4: a lot from it, learned a lot learned with them,
Speaker 4: So that's really good. But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well we'll take a break there and then we're
Speaker 3: going to come back to just hear a little bit
Speaker 3: more about the types of programs that you do. And
Speaker 3: I love that said, the fact that you were saying
Speaker 3: talking about that it's relational and intentional, because I guess
Speaker 3: in your planning a lot of that will have to
Speaker 3: come into that, you know, to know people know what's
Speaker 3: going to connect, help them connect. So we'll take a
Speaker 3: break there for some music, and then when we come back,
Speaker 3: we'll have a little bit more about what.
Speaker 7: I've heard, thousands of stories of wood, thank you, why.
Speaker 4: The tenders wistfuls of in the dead of the light agy.
Speaker 1: Town that you will please them and never.
Speaker 8: You're a bod faure.
Speaker 4: And I love.
Speaker 3: It's wife.
Speaker 4: It's wine.
Speaker 1: In the world.
Speaker 9: See many searching for hands ay, so right by time
Speaker 9: we are searching for ans that only you can reflat you.
Speaker 1: What we need before me say you because you want to.
Speaker 3: Good your fun?
Speaker 8: Sure, sure, And I'm looking bits White's white.
Speaker 7: Because of.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 7: Un deniable. His hardest began to be so on the
Speaker 7: next final I just all this thing as you call me,
Speaker 7: did it will still as you call me. Indeed you
Speaker 7: will still as you're calling me. Indeed it was still
Speaker 7: into us.
Speaker 1: Because you're a good God.
Speaker 4: It's sure, sure, and I'm looking by.
Speaker 3: It's it's.
Speaker 1: People.
Speaker 10: Love, it's who, it's who you're up. It's who you're up,
Speaker 10: and I'm a love by.
Speaker 1: It's rue, it's where.
Speaker 3: It's okay. So we're back with our show. Thank you
Speaker 3: for that for to So we are starting our Men's
Speaker 3: month month of November. How we're here already and we've
Speaker 3: been having a conversation about some men's issues, but what
Speaker 3: we're looking at this month this show is our men's
Speaker 3: ministry within our church and we have got a SEC
Speaker 3: so I think the conference men's coordinator Devin Boyd and
Speaker 3: Logie does legacy lead Douglas Here's from Croydon but also
Speaker 3: part of Devon's team, and we're just kind of talking
Speaker 3: a little bit about men's ministry, why it's important and
Speaker 3: the kind of things that they make a big part
Speaker 3: of that. And so far we've been talking about relationship
Speaker 3: building being keeping it real, making connections being really important,
Speaker 3: and we were just talking before if you didn't catch
Speaker 3: the show, but just joining us, we're just talking about
Speaker 3: especially how you can make the connections between maybe the
Speaker 3: young and old or different people within your communities in
Speaker 3: your groups. So all I wanted to find out is
Speaker 3: kind of some of the activities that you put on
Speaker 3: and the events that you put on to kind of
Speaker 3: foster those relationships as well as a conference wide as well,
Speaker 3: because I'm sure there's there's similarities or things that kind
Speaker 3: of cross over. But what I wanted to ask, actually,
Speaker 3: do you find devon that there are men's ministry teams
Speaker 3: throughout our churches? Do most churches have a men's ministry department?
Speaker 3: Arms and larger churches or the small church or does
Speaker 3: it really depend on how many men are within the
Speaker 3: church or what do you generally find as you go around.
Speaker 6: Well, now this year there's there's a bit more men's
Speaker 6: ministry popping up in different churches, which is great news.
Speaker 6: It's not I don't think there's enough, But it depends
Speaker 6: on how many men's in in in their churches, because
Speaker 6: some churches don't have any. Yeah, and they don't have
Speaker 6: any you know, and they don't even have a a
Speaker 6: men's department or anything. So I encourage, I try to
Speaker 6: encourage those churches especially that even if you don't have something,
Speaker 6: do something. You get I'm coming from. And so even
Speaker 6: if they just sit together and say, Okay, let's do
Speaker 6: this this this quarter. You know, they don't have and
Speaker 6: someone takes that on. They don't have to be leaders
Speaker 6: for the whole year. They're just doing an event for
Speaker 6: men only. So do something for men, because what happens
Speaker 6: in our church is is that we go to church
Speaker 6: and we we see each other. On the Sabbath, we
Speaker 6: go to church, we see each other, and then we
Speaker 6: forget about each other for the rest of the week.
Speaker 6: And also so I feel like not only doing events,
Speaker 6: but contact each other throughout the week because you never
Speaker 6: know if someone is sick, because someone is you know,
Speaker 6: COVID was really, you know, really one of the bird
Speaker 6: things that happen in this country, right, And I was
Speaker 6: thinking to myself, you know, when they told us that
Speaker 6: we are not allowed to go out, and I'm thinking
Speaker 6: to myself, I was, you know, there are ladies probably
Speaker 6: in the same situation, but for men. There might be
Speaker 6: some men living on their own and I have no
Speaker 6: one but the four walls to talk to, do you
Speaker 6: know what I mean? And you know they could, so
Speaker 6: that's where, you know, I don't know where we're gonna
Speaker 6: have that conversation. But real men Real Talk came alive
Speaker 6: because of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, real men, real talk. What's that?
Speaker 6: Oh? Sorry, real men. Real talk is a it's a yeah,
Speaker 6: thank you, a platform for men to come and just talk, right,
Speaker 6: just talk about anything, any issues, any men's issues that
Speaker 6: they are right. Ladies sometimes do come up and we
Speaker 6: have to, you know, asked them to exit. You know,
Speaker 6: there's no room in the inn for you, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean, No matter what God over, a few
Speaker 6: come with. There's only three kings, not queens anyway, right, Yeah,
Speaker 6: so there's just men coming to talk about any issues
Speaker 6: I don't have, and real men, real talk about That's
Speaker 6: how it was born because when we had that problem
Speaker 6: of COVID, I just sat there with you know, Basilan,
Speaker 6: just I sat there and I said, you know, what
Speaker 6: can we do for men to not feel alone in
Speaker 6: the desert? And so we thought off this platform and
Speaker 6: we tested it because you know, in the past, men
Speaker 6: don't like, you know, going to events or whatever. So
Speaker 6: we just did a test run and about thirty men
Speaker 6: came on. Oh and so I said to the men
Speaker 6: when we finished, I said, do you want this to continue?
Speaker 6: And I said yes, So, so how frequently to continue?
Speaker 6: So they said it every week. I said, okay, So
Speaker 6: we had a difficult job of finding speakers, you know,
Speaker 6: topics et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it's been
Speaker 6: a blessing and telling you some of the things, the
Speaker 6: topics that we talked about or some of the presentation
Speaker 6: has been a blessing. Even even one where less men
Speaker 6: came was cooking. We did one cooking where men can
Speaker 6: teach how you can cook salmon and all that, and
Speaker 6: less men came. So I don't know why.
Speaker 3: Interesting And that's really interesting that you have this because
Speaker 3: I know and this has been an ongoing discussion and
Speaker 3: debate within our team in terms of, you know, there's
Speaker 3: this is something that men should get together and do.
Speaker 3: And for one long time I hadn't realized this is
Speaker 3: a program that you had been running and it had
Speaker 3: started from then, and it was always often on the
Speaker 3: back of you know, as women. I mean, our show
Speaker 3: is called Talking Point, so we like to talk, we'd
Speaker 3: like to discuss what have you, But we sometimes find
Speaker 3: that sometimes that men don't speak. But sometimes they don't
Speaker 3: and I don't always want to get involved. And you know,
Speaker 3: it's often said that men sometimes struggle to open up
Speaker 3: a back their personal issues, things they're going through. So
Speaker 3: it's almost surprising that something like this would be that
Speaker 3: popular because of that. However, it seems that actually is
Speaker 3: a popular thing. Some that you've been running for that
Speaker 3: amount of time and you obviously getting people who are
Speaker 3: coming in to speak and to share and to open up,
Speaker 3: and it's something that they obviously want. I mean, was
Speaker 3: that a surprise for you on.
Speaker 4: That in that perspective? From that perspective, well, it was.
Speaker 6: It was a surprise. It was surprised we've got but
Speaker 6: you know, it wasn't. Wasn't because you know, for example,
Speaker 6: I thought, oh yeah we can, we can get a
Speaker 6: hundred men. We could. You know, we get one hundred
Speaker 6: men everywhere every time, but not one hundred men turn up. Yeah,
Speaker 6: sometimes there's fifteen. And this is where you know, you
Speaker 6: feel a bit down. This is what me I'm going
Speaker 6: to tell you the truth. Right, I'm opening up. Sometimes
Speaker 6: I feel down when there's like seven men or nine men.
Speaker 6: But when you've got men like Leslie or or or
Speaker 6: Basil or someone else, they encourage you to just keep
Speaker 6: going no matter how many turn out. Because this program
Speaker 6: is important for men to have a conversation about anything,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, men come on and all
Speaker 6: of a sudden, you know, just just now. For a
Speaker 6: few weeks, we're just having we've just been having prayer
Speaker 6: because there are men out there that need prayer. They
Speaker 6: we we we've been requesting men, what do you want
Speaker 6: to pray for? And some of the things they I'm
Speaker 6: surprised that they want prayer for, and we've been praying
Speaker 6: for them. And sometimes the prayer takes up the whole
Speaker 6: of the program because men need prayer, Hm, you get me,
Speaker 6: because they might not get prayer for anybody else, but
Speaker 6: they need prayer and and and and prayer for specific things.
Speaker 6: And that's what we've been doing. Uh and and it's
Speaker 6: and afterwards, you know, you hear men saying thank you
Speaker 6: so much. I really needed that because at the end
Speaker 6: of the day, they have no one else to turn to,
Speaker 6: you know, they have no one else to turn to.
Speaker 6: And that's the thing that we need to talk about.
Speaker 6: Who when they're going through stuff, where they where should
Speaker 6: they go? You know, what signposts they can go to?
Speaker 6: Where can we sign post them to to get help?
Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is, there are there are places
Speaker 3: and they are see, but is the challenge actually getting
Speaker 3: them to seek help or seek support, or to actually
Speaker 3: turn to someone to try and talk to. And I
Speaker 3: say that because I think we were talking affair that
Speaker 3: actually sometimes sometimes men may think they're okay, even tho
Speaker 3: they're maybe going through stuff and they're having ongoing challenges.
Speaker 3: Society unfortunately has kind of and I think it's getting better,
Speaker 3: but there is a society view that men need to
Speaker 3: be the strong ones and to suck it up, and
Speaker 3: they can't show any vulnerability, you know, they can't, you know,
Speaker 3: there's things may be seen as a sign of weakness.
Speaker 3: But and Devin, you mentioned this as as song you
Speaker 3: to kind of go back to that mentioned a little
Speaker 3: bit about in terms of, you know, the phrase it's
Speaker 3: okay not to be okay. That's not always That's not
Speaker 3: a message that many men sometimes be. I think it's
Speaker 3: getting better, and I think with you know, more conversation
Speaker 3: just about mental health, you know, even if the challenges life,
Speaker 3: et cetera, those things are maybe coming a bit more
Speaker 3: to the forefront. But for a lot of men, that's
Speaker 3: not the message that they're hearing, and that's not what
Speaker 3: the expectation maybe.
Speaker 4: Is of them.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you find do you find that is
Speaker 3: that something that maybe comes up in when you're having these.
Speaker 6: When I spoke at Yes, I said on men's health,
Speaker 6: the first thing I said to when I was speaking
Speaker 6: was that when we talk about men's health, we always
Speaker 6: talk about prostate cancer, We'll talk about high blood pressure
Speaker 6: or whatever it is, but we never say anything about
Speaker 6: men's mental health. We don't have that conversation and all
Speaker 6: the you know, and you can you hear the men saying, yeah,
Speaker 6: that's you know. And then that's when I came in
Speaker 6: with it's okay not to be okay because we come
Speaker 6: with the front. But we might when we get home,
Speaker 6: we might be I'm not saying it's happening, but we
Speaker 6: could be abused by our wives or or we might
Speaker 6: have debt problems or or and we don't even talk
Speaker 6: to anybody about it. We can't even talk to our
Speaker 6: wives about.
Speaker 4: It, or or.
Speaker 6: We have we have a problems relationship with our children
Speaker 6: that we haven't spoken for a long time, and all
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff. Or even going to church, it's difficult.
Speaker 6: They don't want to go to church because there's someone
Speaker 6: in church that they don't like, or they just don't.
Speaker 6: One man said to me, you know, after COVID, he
Speaker 6: said something like, you know, I'm still believing God, but
Speaker 6: the church and they don't come, do you know what
Speaker 6: I mean? These are sort of the things that meant
Speaker 6: going through trauma, you know, and we don't talk about it.
Speaker 6: But all we talk about is postrac And I'm not
Speaker 6: saying postract councer is not important. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 6: But the mind, huh. To me, it's important because you've got,
Speaker 6: you know, you to have that peace of mind. And
Speaker 6: the only way you've got to get that piece of
Speaker 6: mind is that you've got to get to the source
Speaker 6: to sort up that peace of mind. And thank God
Speaker 6: that we have God to give us even though we're
Speaker 6: going through problems. We pray and we get that piece
Speaker 6: of mind. The people who don't have God are going
Speaker 6: through the storm, right, But at least we have that
Speaker 6: peace of mind. That's what I think. And men are
Speaker 6: struggling in churches, but we're not hearing anything. They don't
Speaker 6: want to talk about it because they feel ashamed because
Speaker 6: of being of a man. They are shamed. You know,
Speaker 6: we always sing about some don't be a shame of
Speaker 6: the gospel, but they're shamed of telling other us about
Speaker 6: their problems. You got I'm coming from. And so we
Speaker 6: you know, we need men who are you know, are
Speaker 6: able to talk about this kind of issue, right, even counselors.
Speaker 6: We have counselors in our churches, but some men don't
Speaker 6: want to talk to the counselors in our churches. I'm
Speaker 6: telling you the truth, right, they don't want to even
Speaker 6: talk to them because they're still part of the organization,
Speaker 6: but they will talk outside, right, you get me. So
Speaker 6: I just feel that we need someone that, you know,
Speaker 6: when we do when we talk, when we have Men's
Speaker 6: Day or anything like that, Let's talk more about mental health,
Speaker 6: m right, because if we don't, some of our men
Speaker 6: will commit suicide or we'll go somewhere else if we
Speaker 6: don't talk about it, they're going to do. After the program,
Speaker 6: all of the men just came up and they're just
Speaker 6: so they were so thankful that we could talk about
Speaker 6: mental health instead Aposta cancer.
Speaker 1: All the time.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's not important. I'm not doing wrong.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying we should get ourselves checked out. All
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff that is important. We are supposed
Speaker 6: to get ourselves checked out, but we also need to
Speaker 6: check out our minds.
Speaker 3: I mean interesting, it should really be a holistic. It
Speaker 3: should really be holic, you know, looking at all aspects. Yeah,
Speaker 3: definitely mental health and.
Speaker 6: Even young men are suffering that way.
Speaker 2: Have you got programs that are because I'm hearing you
Speaker 2: talk about some of the issues that you are facing,
Speaker 2: either putting on events or getting persons, not necessarily putting
Speaker 2: on events, but getting our men to attend these events.
Speaker 2: Do you try to do analysis is not the word.
Speaker 2: Maybe just put out feelers or ask or kind of
Speaker 2: get an understanding of where our men are. What are
Speaker 2: the topics that they really wanted to hear about? Because
Speaker 2: you're saying some are more attended or better attendant than others.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if our men feel like
Speaker 2: cooking is reserved for the women. I thought that was
Speaker 2: long I philosophy, that's strong being buried. But maybe that's
Speaker 2: what our men feel that. You know, our women are
Speaker 2: the ones responsible so that they don't have to hone
Speaker 2: their skills. But but are their particular topics that you've
Speaker 2: figured out are more are more useful men men are
Speaker 2: more in tune with? And are those the ones that
Speaker 2: perhaps those are the ones you put put on most
Speaker 2: maybe tag on the cooking at the end of that,
Speaker 2: so they're already in the building, they already you know,
Speaker 2: you've already got their attention, and then you tag on
Speaker 2: the other ones. What I'm trying to find out is,
Speaker 2: if you're sourcing out, what are some of the major issues,
Speaker 2: some of the major topics that our men are looking for?
Speaker 2: And I salute you. I'm sure my my my co
Speaker 2: hosts know my passion for mental health, particularly as it
Speaker 2: concerns our men. The statistics are just overwhelming there, they're gray,
Speaker 2: they're bleak, their dismal concerning our men, and and the
Speaker 2: fact that they don't speak, so many suffering silence, and obviously,
Speaker 2: as you've mentioned, so many of them just decide that
Speaker 2: enough's enough and they take their own lives. So on
Speaker 2: top of having a focus on mental health, what are
Speaker 2: some of the other issues that you find are more
Speaker 2: well attended or more well received?
Speaker 6: One question?
Speaker 4: I think what I find from a local level. I mean,
Speaker 4: we've got a new leader who's got some really great initiatives,
Speaker 4: and we last month we had men's breakfasts, so they
Speaker 4: will come have a breakfast have a presentation and have
Speaker 4: a time where we can just come together, have somebody
Speaker 4: to eat and chat and et cetera, et cetera. And
Speaker 4: I think that band is really good. We've had a
Speaker 4: social as well where that helps.
Speaker 2: And I think so other men and the men are
Speaker 2: more responsive responsive.
Speaker 4: If there's food, they're more food. And if it's social,
Speaker 4: because what do you what you find? And one of
Speaker 4: the main I think one of the main it's not
Speaker 4: the only one, one of the main differences I think
Speaker 4: with men and women opening up is that if you
Speaker 4: set a forum, women was just run to that. With guys,
Speaker 4: it's either in a barbershop, if there's an event going
Speaker 4: on where they can focus on playing this or doing something,
Speaker 4: then they'll start opening up. But if the focus is
Speaker 4: just that, they're reluctant to open up. They need to
Speaker 4: feel comfortable. And I think with us there's a trust element.
Speaker 4: So for example, i'd say something to you and I
Speaker 4: hear that from someone else, I ain't trusting you ever again,
Speaker 4: that's it, You've done. That's how we are. And it's
Speaker 4: the same attitude we have in our relationship with I
Speaker 4: tell my wife something and that comes back to me.
Speaker 4: That's it, I don't. I'm not saying anything more. That's it.
Speaker 4: So in that respect, that's why it's challenging, very difficult
Speaker 4: to get people to open up, because you.
Speaker 3: Have to have.
Speaker 4: A time where people can feel comfortable, feel safe that's
Speaker 4: probably the best word. Where they feel safe and feel
Speaker 4: that what is being said one is not going to
Speaker 4: be used against them. Two, they're not going to be
Speaker 4: looked at differently, and three most importantly, it ends where
Speaker 4: they are. It doesn't come out of here. And I
Speaker 4: think if you can capture all of those, then for me,
Speaker 4: that's a recipe to success.
Speaker 2: Yes, with your with your I mean, I really love
Speaker 2: how you've put that. With your zoom That's what I'm
Speaker 2: assuming here. Is it a zoom zoom setting, a zoom
Speaker 2: platform that you do thee All.
Speaker 4: Right, So we have every Friday, we have a zoom
Speaker 4: platform where we have Bible study. And it's not always
Speaker 4: Bible study. A lot of the times it's just prayer.
Speaker 4: And sometimes we have Bible studies so I may say, okay,
Speaker 4: we're going to study Revelation or Ephesian or something. So
Speaker 4: we have that every Friday. Then out of that came
Speaker 4: guys who wanted a bit more so we have prayer
Speaker 4: Mondays and Wednesdays, so that came out of that. We
Speaker 4: also have so within So those are the two actives
Speaker 4: that have run all the time.
Speaker 2: So that the one you said that was both in
Speaker 2: COVID or for our talk.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that zoom, that's national. Yeah, so that's that wasn't
Speaker 4: on a local level. That's a national level, but on
Speaker 4: a local level. Those are the sort of things. So
Speaker 4: we have every Friday and Monday and Thursday, not Wednesday,
Speaker 4: Monday and Thursday. Yeah, prayer. We also have what we
Speaker 4: are starting now is that every month we have one
Speaker 4: meeting on zoom and one meeting together okay physically in
Speaker 4: the building, physical in the building, and then we have
Speaker 4: social So those are the three things that are happening
Speaker 4: every months. And so the meeting face to face meeting.
Speaker 4: So the next one is on the tenth of November
Speaker 4: and the theme is how to be a good husband
Speaker 4: and how to be a good father. So we'll have devotion,
Speaker 4: we'll have that for half an hour thirty five minutes,
Speaker 4: then we'll have lunch. Then the leader will then do
Speaker 4: a presentation and then we'll have a time together.
Speaker 1: And that's that.
Speaker 4: So those are the sort of things we've put in place.
Speaker 4: And from that, what he's put together is a survey,
Speaker 4: and a survey we'd look at the number of things
Speaker 4: in terms of what ministry you're comently involved in, what
Speaker 4: MEANSTRM would you like to get involved in, what would
Speaker 4: you like to see happen in the industry, those sort
Speaker 4: of things, and they'll fill out that survey that will
Speaker 4: come back. Based on that, we'll then look at how
Speaker 4: we what programs are put in place. So one of
Speaker 4: the initiatives we want to do is which we used
Speaker 4: to do, is one we want to start doing a
Speaker 4: saber squad lesson with the shuttings, okay, and the other
Speaker 4: thing we wanted to start doing that we had stopped
Speaker 4: prior to COVID. We got these jackets. We've got jackets
Speaker 4: and T shirts and stuff, and what we used to do.
Speaker 4: We used to go out and sort of do people's gardens,
Speaker 4: do little dio wire around people's homes, and particularly elderly
Speaker 4: we used to shove all the snow from their front
Speaker 4: so they can come out quite safely, and things like that.
Speaker 4: So those are sort of things we used to do.
Speaker 4: And one initiative we want to start back doing again.
Speaker 4: So things like that we used to do, we started, Well,
Speaker 4: it's in plan for us to start in a new
Speaker 4: year to do those things.
Speaker 2: And just one more question, and Jia, was when you
Speaker 2: spoke of particular churches that are either too small or
Speaker 2: don't have men in numbers, isn't it possible for them
Speaker 2: to merge or to come across or to pop in.
Speaker 2: So what you're doing, Leslie, isn't exclusively for your church,
Speaker 2: or you'll come unity if if someone is near enough
Speaker 2: or excited enough they can they can join.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, we invited the neighborhood churches and let them
Speaker 4: now put that out because it's not just for the churches,
Speaker 4: for the community as well. We try to do the
Speaker 4: community and the local churches within the vicinity we come along. Yeah.
Speaker 6: And that to me that because he's reaching the community.
Speaker 6: I've always said right that we as men, we should
Speaker 6: try and reach the community as well. And I had
Speaker 6: one idea which was which the church did try to represent.
Speaker 6: But the ball turn it down was men like to
Speaker 6: talk in a barber shop. You get me. Men will
Speaker 6: talk when you got to barbershop, right, men talk, I'm serious.
Speaker 6: They talk about cricket, They talk about the West Indies
Speaker 6: or they used to play and they don't play it
Speaker 6: no more. They talk about they just talk in the
Speaker 6: barber shop. So I suggested, why don't we have a
Speaker 6: barber shop, even if it's just a quarterly barbershop, right,
Speaker 6: something that can cut hair, invite the community. And that's
Speaker 6: when men will start talking. And the difference is you'll
Speaker 6: have clean music mm hmm. Right, you have clean air
Speaker 6: because sometimes a barber shop, you know, they're smoking weed
Speaker 6: or whatever. So you have that, you have clean air,
Speaker 6: and you have clean conversations. Yeah, and even if you
Speaker 6: put e a TV, it will be a clean you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, because when you got the barber
Speaker 6: shop is different. But when you when you have in
Speaker 6: a in a Christian sense, you have you know, you
Speaker 6: probably have gospel music out there or something like that
Speaker 6: so people can watch it. All I'm saying is that
Speaker 6: when men, you know, like barbershop, men can talk. Men
Speaker 6: talk and then talk about anything. And also what I
Speaker 6: like about another thing like is you know when we
Speaker 6: have these gatherings, you know, you if gatherings have to
Speaker 6: be frequent, not too frequent, but it's continually because men
Speaker 6: get bored very quickly, right, and if it's not for example,
Speaker 6: if you have it once and it doesn't happen again
Speaker 6: next time you put it on, they just you know,
Speaker 6: forget it, you know what I mean. So it has
Speaker 6: to be like a continuous like every quarter or something,
Speaker 6: and then you know more men will will come and join.
Speaker 6: And let's not only doate for the men in the church,
Speaker 6: but let's do it also for the men in the community.
Speaker 6: Because of this is why I'm saying this is because
Speaker 6: I went to one program. I went to one program
Speaker 6: because that's what we're do in men Ministry this year,
Speaker 6: we've been helping with finances with other churches programs. Right.
Speaker 6: So I went to one program where the person decided
Speaker 6: to invite men left the church. So he sent out
Speaker 6: invitations for all the men that left the church to
Speaker 6: come to an event, right, And it was a fellows
Speaker 6: men's fellowship. And they didn't do it in the church.
Speaker 6: They did it in the school because they didn't want
Speaker 6: it in the church atmosphere. And when I went about
Speaker 6: thirty five men came and all they did was we
Speaker 6: didn't put on because you know what we do sometimes
Speaker 6: we bring the church to the event. The program I'm
Speaker 6: talking about. They didn't do none of that. They just
Speaker 6: came chat. Never see each other for a long time.
Speaker 10: How you doing?
Speaker 6: You know that kind conversation? Men, There was an old
Speaker 6: all an an old call tea in a car, were
Speaker 6: sitting outside and the men looking at it. It was
Speaker 6: nice and clean and shut. It was really nice, I'm
Speaker 6: telling you. And you know we talk about you know,
Speaker 6: the car, the engine, you know, and you know when
Speaker 6: you see folks. And then out of that they said
Speaker 6: at the end of it, they said, you know what
Speaker 6: we should do because it was one particular church, They
Speaker 6: said we should all go to do a service in
Speaker 6: the morning at that church. And they all said, yes,
Speaker 6: no problem. They left church, you know, so we didn't
Speaker 6: have to tell them about church because they know it.
Speaker 6: If we did that, they're gone, they're not there, don't
Speaker 6: want to know. We had a different kind of conversation,
Speaker 6: and I think that was the brilliant way of of
Speaker 6: bringing men that used to We're not talking about members
Speaker 6: in the church. We're talking about used to because they
Speaker 6: haven't been there for years, got invitation and bring them
Speaker 6: to come and talk with each other about anything. And
Speaker 6: you can see some of them, you know, they're health wise,
Speaker 6: they're healthy. They're not so healthy that they were before
Speaker 6: or or you know, they might be going through divorce
Speaker 6: or whatever. But it was good to see them. Good
Speaker 6: to see people that I used to sing with, and
Speaker 6: now they're going to put on an event which is brilliant.
Speaker 6: And then they had that WhatsApp group, you know, WhatsApp
Speaker 6: group for men I think should be because I don't
Speaker 6: like this. You know, these forward messages we get black
Speaker 6: you know, from China and it reaches us. You know,
Speaker 6: I look it full in this message. I don't like them.
Speaker 6: The WhatsApp group for men I think should be the
Speaker 6: man puts on there and say, look, I'm having financially
Speaker 6: difficult Can you pray for me? Or I need five
Speaker 6: men to come and help me in the garden, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. That's what the WhatsApp group should
Speaker 6: be for that kind of conversation, you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: not these forward messages. You know, once I see them,
Speaker 6: I'm out, you know what I mean. But when I
Speaker 6: see that kind of conversation and then they say, oh
Speaker 6: yeah I'll be able to get there, Oh yeah I'll
Speaker 6: be there. Oh yeah, I've got a car. I can
Speaker 6: help you carry the you know that sort of thing,
Speaker 6: or I can help you with the garden, or there's
Speaker 6: a domino competition down the bottom of the road. In
Speaker 6: our church. Come come and they say, oh yeah, we
Speaker 6: come in. Make sure you bring a supermode. This is
Speaker 6: the kind of conversation I love to see and hear,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, And so that is important.
Speaker 6: I think these kind of gatherings from men. That's why
Speaker 6: I like when you go to football or you go
Speaker 6: to apartment and you see all these men. It's not
Speaker 6: about the drinking, right, It's about the gathering, and it's
Speaker 6: about the talking. And also, you know, we should you know,
Speaker 6: the hugging. You know, we love you. We're there for you.
Speaker 6: You know, if we find it hard to say love
Speaker 6: to our children, our sons, how can we say we
Speaker 6: love someone else?
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: So this is all the things that we should be grasping.
Speaker 6: You should we should be doing reaching out to our
Speaker 6: men because they just need that little you know, that
Speaker 6: smile can go a long way you get mean, and
Speaker 6: the thing is right when they come, When they come,
Speaker 6: we don't have to say oh, you know, because we
Speaker 6: do that in church. Sometimes when people leave church and
Speaker 6: they come back. I tell you know, you know, I
Speaker 6: tell you you know you shouldn't leave it. No, we
Speaker 6: don't need to do that. Man, we have to have
Speaker 6: a different kind of conversation. Just don't saying, because silence
Speaker 6: is golden. That's why I love the story about the
Speaker 6: prodigal son. When he came home, the father didn't say anything.
Speaker 6: He just gave him a hug. Because he came home.
Speaker 6: We don't have to say I tell you you should
Speaker 6: have got out there and spend your money or whatever.
Speaker 6: He came home. And what I learned about that story
Speaker 6: is that we as Christians or as fathers, should tell
Speaker 6: you say to my son, no matter how far you've been,
Speaker 6: no matter how far you've gone right, no matter if
Speaker 6: you squander your work or you went to university and
Speaker 6: he decided to give up halfway, the door is always
Speaker 6: open for you to come back home. That's what I
Speaker 6: learned the story from the prodigal son. The door is
Speaker 6: always open for you to come back home. So these
Speaker 6: folks they want to come back home. The question is
Speaker 6: is the door open?
Speaker 3: And also who maybe have left, but also there's new
Speaker 3: people who are seeking and looking for a community.
Speaker 6: That's correct.
Speaker 3: And what I like about what you're saying there in
Speaker 3: terms of the gathering, but also the practicalities of some
Speaker 3: of it as well, in terms of utilizing skills like
Speaker 3: going gardening or doing DIY. It's things that they can
Speaker 3: practically help which actually then gives the opportunity to meet
Speaker 3: to connect as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely, So yeah, it's you know the men. You know,
Speaker 6: men they need a purpose in life. They need a
Speaker 6: goal in life, you know what I mean. And if
Speaker 6: they've got no goal, they've got no purpose in life,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And that's why you know
Speaker 6: one in my presentation, men, you need purpose in life.
Speaker 6: What is your purpose? What are you going to do
Speaker 6: in five years time? What you're going to do? What
Speaker 6: is your goal? You've got no goal? What are you here?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: We need that.
Speaker 6: Men need that sign of thing, and they need other
Speaker 6: men to help them push them to that goal, to
Speaker 6: work together and not be stagnant. And we become lazy,
Speaker 6: you know, we start blaming, We start you know, you know,
Speaker 6: because someone else is doing we don't do it, especially ladies.
Speaker 6: When the ladies are doing something. Why am I about
Speaker 6: ladies when they're doing something when you should be the
Speaker 6: one doing it.
Speaker 3: But as you and as you're saying that, I guess
Speaker 3: that's also because I guess that's a message that you
Speaker 3: are trying to put across. How can sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: we and I say, the real way, in terms of families, friends, women,
Speaker 3: the church, how can we really support our men effectively?
Speaker 3: Because actually sometimes and you mentioned something that Leslie mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: sometimes you come together to talk to ship. But some
Speaker 3: of this a bit of a kick. But how can
Speaker 3: we kind of effectively do that kind of from the outside.
Speaker 3: I'm not a man, so I don't necessarily understand the
Speaker 3: struggle that you go through, the things what have you.
Speaker 3: But I want to encourage, I want to support. How
Speaker 3: can I do that effectively that actually might make a
Speaker 3: difference to kind of us shure or encourage them to
Speaker 3: get involved in stuff, do more activities, you know, or
Speaker 3: try and find the purpose or you know, reach out
Speaker 3: to seek help and support, to make lifestyle changes or
Speaker 3: to do different things. What can what could I do
Speaker 3: that's going to really make a difference and be effective?
Speaker 4: I think I think two thing comes to me when
Speaker 4: I hear that. One inclusion, because I think sometimes what
Speaker 4: tends to happen is women are doing something and they
Speaker 4: have all their female friends that do all the planning,
Speaker 4: all the preparations. We're not involved in that. We're just
Speaker 4: there to rrge heavy stuff. That's not inclusion. And I
Speaker 4: don't particularly like being part of that because I think
Speaker 4: I've made all the arrangs. Well I can't be part
Speaker 4: of that arrangement. What about my thoughts?
Speaker 8: What am I?
Speaker 4: You know, we're not so we just you cant bring
Speaker 4: the drinks, you can bring the heavy stuff, you can do.
Speaker 4: It's really so that's not including for me. Purpose Yeah,
Speaker 4: purpose again, you know what's my purpose here? Is that
Speaker 4: is that it just to carry the heavy stuff. I
Speaker 4: can't think to give ideas and think like that. So
Speaker 4: that's important inclusion. I think the other thing is talking
Speaker 4: to people and not to pack people. I think the
Speaker 4: perception is I think some for me, I think sometimes
Speaker 4: it's that we're stone, we don't bleed, And it's like
Speaker 4: there's a song that the heritage singer says, no, not heritage,
Speaker 4: just what's his name, can't think of them, it says,
Speaker 4: he says. Someone says sometimes I heard, And that's deep
Speaker 4: for me because I think sometimes we don't think that
Speaker 4: men hurt. We do hurt. We may not show it,
Speaker 4: but it doesn't mean we're not hurt. And I think
Speaker 4: a lot of that stems from the stigma of what
Speaker 4: we're expected to be. We're expected to be someone who
Speaker 4: don't show emotions. We're expected to be this tough person,
Speaker 4: and if we do show emotions, you need to man up.
Speaker 4: So there's a number of challenges that are there, and
Speaker 4: I think it's how we can navigate those, and some
Speaker 4: of us don't have that skill set to navigate that.
Speaker 4: That's the reality of it. Some of us don't. We
Speaker 4: don't know how to deal with that, so we only
Speaker 4: deal with it the way we know how to deal
Speaker 4: with it, which is not necessarily the best way. So
Speaker 4: it's either withdrawal, we don't say anything, going to our
Speaker 4: own space because we don't see value where our value is.
Speaker 4: And I think things like that, just being cousins of
Speaker 4: that factor, I think that's really important. I think, yeah,
Speaker 4: value is really important. But I think on a whole,
Speaker 4: I think in a lot of ways we are worst
Speaker 4: on enemies really because I think that we there's a
Speaker 4: saying you got if you keep crying and crying and
Speaker 4: nothing's wrong when something's actually wrong, no one's going to
Speaker 4: believe you. And I think we've been our worst enemies
Speaker 4: over the years in terms of how we have behaved
Speaker 4: and how we have conducted ourselves. And I think the
Speaker 4: society we're in now that's now been twisted around and
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways held against us. But also
Speaker 4: I think there's an attitude of not wanting to let
Speaker 4: go because women have held onto it and have run
Speaker 4: with it and it's worked, and they don't want to
Speaker 4: let it go because they're fearful that if I give
Speaker 4: it to you, you're not going to continue it. So
Speaker 4: there's that. So there's a number of things, and I
Speaker 4: think there needs to be coming together and understanding that
Speaker 4: God made man and God made women and there's a
Speaker 4: beauty in that separateness that if they can only work
Speaker 4: together and come together, they will see the overall beauty
Speaker 4: that God intended. And I think sometimes guys are trying
Speaker 4: to be are trying to make women to be men,
Speaker 4: and women are trying to make in other words, oh,
Speaker 4: I don't do it that way. Well, you're not a man,
Speaker 4: so you won't do it that way, you know, and
Speaker 4: vice versa, and things like that. And accepting people for
Speaker 4: who they are, and that means everything how they do things.
Speaker 4: For example, just because for me, different doesn't mean wrong.
Speaker 4: It simply means different. Yeah, because you don't go into
Speaker 4: a restaurant and say, oh, how did you cut the rice?
Speaker 4: So why are you mun about our und cooking the rice?
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. Just simple things like that.
Speaker 4: And it's allowing people to do things and not feeling
Speaker 4: that you have to give instructions all the time. No,
Speaker 4: make him do something, leave him. So I think there's
Speaker 4: a number of things, but on a whole, I think
Speaker 4: it's like I see, it's not different what women wants.
Speaker 4: They want to be valued, they want to be respected,
Speaker 4: they want to be acknowledged, they want to feel part
Speaker 4: of We're not different. We're not different. We may go
Speaker 4: back in a different way and you may have the
Speaker 4: perception that we don't, but it's not that. It's because
Speaker 4: we feel we have to have this hard exterior because
Speaker 4: if we're not protecting ourselves, we're going to be roller coasted.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think there's I think there's just a
Speaker 4: lot of communication and understanding that needs to take place.
Speaker 4: I mean, I still haven't got it right, and but
Speaker 4: I can see the beauty in what God is trying
Speaker 4: to do, but I can't. I struggle to put that
Speaker 4: into practice. How do I how what does that look
Speaker 4: like in the day to day base? How do I
Speaker 4: relate that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: Sometimes you can say okay, I can see how you
Speaker 4: can fly that plane, but then put me in a copy.
Speaker 4: It's a different ballgame, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 4: it's about how do you make that a reality? What
Speaker 4: does that look like? You know? It's like you say
Speaker 4: to people, how are you doing? Oh I'm okay, and
Speaker 4: I'm almos saying peoplehen they said, okay, so what does
Speaker 4: okay look like? Because okay, I'm mean nothing to me.
Speaker 4: What does that mean? You know? So I said, okay,
Speaker 4: so what does okay look like? And just that simple
Speaker 4: question opens up because what people say to you is
Speaker 4: that I'm interested because I can say, oh, hey, happy
Speaker 4: to sab how are you doing? I don't really want it.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying happy Sabbath, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But when I say, oh, so what does okay look like?
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, okay, and start thought okay. And then
Speaker 4: when you see him next time, he said, oh, you know,
Speaker 4: we had a chat to have that I was praying
Speaker 4: for you about that and they're like really, and it
Speaker 4: stills little windows that cracks that opens up wider and
Speaker 4: it may take time, but you have to be patient.
Speaker 4: And that's why it's used to the word the intention.
Speaker 4: You have to be intentional because for some people, some
Speaker 4: people get on board straight away, some people standing in
Speaker 4: the back Grandchester to see how things are going before
Speaker 4: they get on board. And some people well know, will
Speaker 4: not get on board. But it's how you persuade people
Speaker 4: and how you bring people on it's important. That's the
Speaker 4: I think that's the key. More different, It's like a
Speaker 4: captain of a cricket team. Everybody is different and he's
Speaker 4: got to know how to get the best art teedation
Speaker 4: in one of them. One way works with one person,
Speaker 4: but men at work with another person. You know, I
Speaker 4: can say to one person, come on, man, store it
Speaker 4: out and that's all he needs. Another person, I mean,
Speaker 4: but my mom's around this, and man what that means. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So it's understanding. It's like management. You have to know
Speaker 4: your audience, who you dealing with, and not what it
Speaker 4: needs to motivate each individual person to get the overall
Speaker 4: beauty of it. And that's that's that's a not an
Speaker 4: easy thing to do.
Speaker 3: Because again with that as well, it's also I think
Speaker 3: and then how we have to maybe adapt and change
Speaker 3: in yeah, because it's.
Speaker 4: Not about just them, it's about you as well and
Speaker 4: how you received it and are you hearing what they're
Speaker 4: saying or are you hearing something else? And sometimes we
Speaker 4: have to be honest enough and say I hear you,
Speaker 4: but I don't know how to but I will find
Speaker 4: out or I know on that and not feel that
Speaker 4: you have to answer everything and if you don't have
Speaker 4: an answer, that you're not valued. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 4: think it's brave when you can say I don't know,
Speaker 4: but I'm happy to find out and get back to you. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's.
Speaker 3: App on to that, Devin.
Speaker 6: Really, I mean, nass.
Speaker 2: Very well.
Speaker 6: Well, said Leslie.
Speaker 1: You can say.
Speaker 3: That's cool, that's cool. So I guess, I mean it's
Speaker 3: been really interested to hear some of the things that
Speaker 3: you've been doing. And I guess, you know, looking at
Speaker 3: the different you know, what you can do on a
Speaker 3: local level and how that the next fands to you know,
Speaker 3: the conference wide and what haveing the bigger events and
Speaker 3: what have you. So for seven, you mentioned that you know,
Speaker 3: for some churches they have they've got thriving men's ministries.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they do for some churches and maybe not.
Speaker 3: I mean that could also be indicative of the fact
Speaker 3: that the ratio of men in church in our church
Speaker 3: is much lower than say the more there are more women.
Speaker 3: But again it's not just about you know, meeting needs
Speaker 3: with the men in your church, source in the communities
Speaker 3: as well. But what message would you give to churches
Speaker 3: who have not necessarily got a men's ministry team? And
Speaker 3: you kind of said something a little bit about that earlier,
Speaker 3: just to try and do something. But I I guess
Speaker 3: if you're just sort of say, right, okay, I want
Speaker 3: to kind of id say sell but promote the idea
Speaker 3: of putting amend's ministries team together or doing activities, what
Speaker 3: would be your key things that you would be saying
Speaker 3: to say, you know what, there's something you should do,
Speaker 3: get on board, you know, try and push it. And
Speaker 3: you know, if there isn't one, why isn't there one,
Speaker 3: make it happen kind of things. So what would you
Speaker 3: what would be your kind of message to those churches.
Speaker 4: Before definitely, sorry, let me just quickly say bit for difference.
Speaker 4: I think for me, one of the things I've been
Speaker 4: looking at doing, especially those small churches don't have one.
Speaker 4: I won't be saying, oh good idea to do this.
Speaker 4: What I would think would be more powerful is if
Speaker 4: we spoke to the pastor ask the past if we
Speaker 4: can have a program for just men, and we do
Speaker 4: a men's program in their men's minis in their church.
Speaker 4: And I think because we men are visual creatures, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and when they actually see something, they get more out
Speaker 4: of reading or hear. You're in the visuals. So I
Speaker 4: think putting a program on in them will encourage that,
Speaker 4: and then you can encourage them to come on the
Speaker 4: platforms that we have and then trying to support them.
Speaker 4: I think that would be go a long way in
Speaker 4: terms of the visuality of it. And see how the
Speaker 4: church takes it when you deliver a program there, right,
Speaker 4: you know, I.
Speaker 6: Was going to say that's these right, I was also
Speaker 6: going to say that there's one there's another reason why
Speaker 6: there's a lack of men's ministry. It depends on the culture.
Speaker 6: Because some churches, right, if they you know, they will say, oh,
Speaker 6: we're okay, we don't need it because of their culture.
Speaker 6: They think that, you know, because they're all right, you know,
Speaker 6: they don't need to have men's ministry because the men
Speaker 6: are okay. But then we should be asking the men
Speaker 6: are they okay? You know what I mean, no matter
Speaker 6: what culture are in, no matter what language you're in,
Speaker 6: no matter you know what race you're from. But sometimes
Speaker 6: some it it's just to say to me, we're okay.
Speaker 6: And also I don't mean to say this in there,
Speaker 6: but yeah, let's be real. Even some pastors don't want
Speaker 6: to have the men's ministry in their churches and they
Speaker 6: don't see to see that as important, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean, And the men need it, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean. So, as Leslie said, you know, we put
Speaker 6: programs on for men to be interested in the men's ministry,
Speaker 6: but I try not to force it. You don't want
Speaker 6: to force them. So instead I put in, like what
Speaker 6: I just said before. You know, especially when you start
Speaker 6: from ministry, the first figion to ask the men what
Speaker 6: they want to see, you know, what they want to
Speaker 6: see in this ministry, because sometimes we put ideas and
Speaker 6: they don't want that kind of idea. And then when
Speaker 6: I say to them, okay, when you do that kind
Speaker 6: of thing, but you know, ask them what they want
Speaker 6: to see or what they want happening in the ministry.
Speaker 6: I always say to them, right, say someone said they
Speaker 6: want to do a football match or something like that.
Speaker 6: Then I say, well, that person take ownership of organizing
Speaker 6: that sort of thing, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 6: and everybody has helped them, you know. They I like
Speaker 6: the especially young men, take ownership of what they're doing,
Speaker 6: so they feel like they are involved in it, do
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? Because sometimes I know men's ministry,
Speaker 6: men's leaders do a come up, but sometimes we need
Speaker 6: to pass it on so that one day, when you're gone,
Speaker 6: they can take over.
Speaker 3: That's the inclusion and the purpose and.
Speaker 6: That's right, so the one that they will take over,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. So if we include our
Speaker 6: young folks, other men into taking ownership, and the and
Speaker 6: the you know, the wives, they need to support the
Speaker 6: men when it comes to these sort of things as well.
Speaker 6: They need to say you know what you go ahead,
Speaker 6: go go you know helps you know I say some
Speaker 6: sometimes I say it's like you need to encourage me
Speaker 6: a bit more. Do you know what I mean. You know,
Speaker 6: if the ladies encourage the men a bit more, they
Speaker 6: will feel But sometimes encouragement goes a long way. That's why.
Speaker 6: That's why I like what's his name, Donald Lawrence when
Speaker 6: they did that song Encourage yourself, right. Men need encouragement
Speaker 6: to go a certain direction if they've got a goal.
Speaker 6: You you know, like I've been studying something and I'm
Speaker 6: graduating soon. I get the encouragement from my wife, keep going,
Speaker 6: keep going, you know what I mean. I get encouragement
Speaker 6: from my close friends, keep going, because sometimes you want
Speaker 6: to give up. But when you get that encouragement to
Speaker 6: just keep going, it takes. It takes you a long way,
Speaker 6: you know me, because even though we pray, pray, sometimes
Speaker 6: it's not enough. I'm not saying pray, don't change thing
Speaker 6: or answer, but sometimes you need a physical on earth
Speaker 6: to say, you know, you still got a long way
Speaker 6: to go to the on that yellow brick road, keep
Speaker 6: going you That's where they inclusion it comes in. You
Speaker 6: know what I mean that we encourage each other to
Speaker 6: keep going, you know, with these programs, keep going. You know,
Speaker 6: That's why I said to you earlier. Sometimes I just
Speaker 6: I will say is it worth doing Real menor Real Talk.
Speaker 6: But when you get the encouragement to say, you know,
Speaker 6: when someone says write a text to you and say
Speaker 6: you know what you're doing is really great, that's the
Speaker 6: encouragement you need to keep going, you know. That's why
Speaker 6: it keeps going for I don't know, is it four years?
Speaker 6: How many programs we put on on Real Memorial Talk?
Speaker 6: What what's the details?
Speaker 2: Can I just interject him?
Speaker 4: I can't remember. I can't remember. Let me get back
Speaker 4: to you on that one.
Speaker 3: Say what have you got coming up? And actually how
Speaker 3: can people find out about this program? These programs that
Speaker 3: your Day Talk.
Speaker 6: Real Memorial Talk comes on every other Monday, and it's
Speaker 6: on Zoom and it starts at seven thirty to nine thirty.
Speaker 6: And usually we send out posters every month and you
Speaker 6: get it either on the SEC website newsletter or we
Speaker 6: have a mail shop and I send it out to
Speaker 6: all the Men's Ministry churches or groups, and also on
Speaker 6: the SEC WhatsApp channel, I have Instagram, you know. And
Speaker 6: another thing we're doing which I didn't mention, but I
Speaker 6: will mention Leslie knows, And we're trying to organize a
Speaker 6: podcast as well for men, And the reason why we're
Speaker 6: trying to organize a podcast for men. I feel sometimes
Speaker 6: that there is not enough programs for men to have
Speaker 6: conversations or anything, because you know, like like Loose Women,
Speaker 6: you have every day Loose Women is on and they
Speaker 6: talk about anything, and I'm not saying that, And then
Speaker 6: when it's the program for men, like you know, it's
Speaker 6: something important like don't know, you know that beard thing
Speaker 6: they do November, you know, you have that once for
Speaker 6: the whole year, or it's Father's Day. That's the only
Speaker 6: time they have a program. And I think, no, you know,
Speaker 6: mental health, you know all the prostate cancer, or or
Speaker 6: there's men who wrote books or or or there's an event.
Speaker 6: We should have that kind of program more often for
Speaker 6: men to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Do you get me?
Speaker 6: And that's why I want to do a real memorial
Speaker 6: talk It's on its way podcast, Okay, so that will
Speaker 6: be another thing on top of the real memoral Talk
Speaker 6: Zoom meetings. We will be doing that as well.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you can find that on So you didn't
Speaker 3: got Instagram? What's your Instagram?
Speaker 4: Actually?
Speaker 6: Then well the miscribes mine own.
Speaker 11: So yeah, but we will be organized a real manoral
Speaker 11: Talk Instagram, and we want to do a Roman Talk
Speaker 11: channel so that we could put information on there.
Speaker 6: Any event so I go to or we go to,
Speaker 6: we can record it put it on there so that
Speaker 6: men can see. Because I wan't meant to be interested
Speaker 6: in these events, but whenever the events come on, and
Speaker 6: not only with SEC but all events of the of
Speaker 6: churches that we advertise or whatever, and for men to
Speaker 6: come and hopefully be interested in.
Speaker 3: Okay, and you just you send me to post that
Speaker 3: you've got one coming up.
Speaker 6: Next to a men's conference coming up, Yeah, next in
Speaker 6: March March, I think it's the fourteenth to the sixteenth, right, Nestley.
Speaker 6: March fourteenth to the sixty is going to be at
Speaker 6: the Denham Grove Hotel which is in Uxbridge, and it's
Speaker 6: called the theme is stop, Look, Listen, but let's talk,
Speaker 6: And basically it's about men's issues, what we're going through,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. We need to stop so
Speaker 6: we can talk about it. Maybe we could look and see,
Speaker 6: because sometimes we look but we don't really see what
Speaker 6: men is going. We're just going past them, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean. And listen listening, not talk, but listen
Speaker 6: sometimes listening as I said, science is God. We just
Speaker 6: listened to them.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: I remember one time when I was going, I was
Speaker 6: really down. I wasn't in meense miinster, I was really
Speaker 6: down in church, and I go to church and I
Speaker 6: want to tell one of the elders something and the
Speaker 6: best the line that I did not want to hear,
Speaker 6: which we always say, I know it's changing now, but
Speaker 6: we always say, because Leslie mentioned it, let's just pray
Speaker 6: about it. Just pray about it. And they left me,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. So the listening part didn't
Speaker 6: even happen. You know, I wanted to someone to because
Speaker 6: you know what, I believe, if we could tell our story,
Speaker 6: it will help someone else with their story and their journey.
Speaker 6: We need. Our story is important to tell. But and
Speaker 6: we're going through stuff. We want someone to listen, to
Speaker 6: give us a hard or you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: or just just don't say, just listen so we can
Speaker 6: lift that burden out of us because we carry a
Speaker 6: lot of burdens. Men carry a lot of burdens now,
Speaker 6: but no one is listening. No, they we're too frightened
Speaker 6: to say everything with our burdens. And so that's when
Speaker 6: men's health come in where we get sick because we're
Speaker 6: carrying all this burden and you know, we're like, you know,
Speaker 6: I remember my son used to say to me, my son,
Speaker 6: when I was driving my car. My son said to me,
Speaker 6: you know, there's noise in your front wheel. And I
Speaker 6: won't even listen.
Speaker 1: To but I was just like, we are you talking about?
Speaker 6: You know, what are you talking about? Wilson, don't worry.
Speaker 6: And then I drive out. The cord came up again.
Speaker 6: He goes, there's noise in the front wheel, Dad, And
Speaker 6: I said no, no, no, that's not there's no and
Speaker 6: then he said, I will record it. So he recorded
Speaker 6: it and I played it and it was noise in
Speaker 6: the front wheel. This was for months, and I took
Speaker 6: it to the garage and they after they investigated, they said,
Speaker 6: you need a new breaks, you need a dispath and
Speaker 6: all that. It costs the whole four wheels of my cut.
Speaker 6: It cost me a bomb. He said, if you listen
Speaker 6: to your son in the first place, your solve that
Speaker 6: problem already. That's what men should do. Right. If you
Speaker 6: have a problem, talk to someone now, don't wait twenty
Speaker 6: years later and then it gets worse, and then you
Speaker 6: then you're blame whoever. No, you're the one to blame
Speaker 6: because you didn't do the you didn't act in the
Speaker 6: first place. That's what that's so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: So so so this this this program is forgetting men
Speaker 6: to to just just act on what you you know,
Speaker 6: whatever it is, you will act on it now before
Speaker 6: it gets worse.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that, And I can say, you know,
Speaker 3: it's really it's quite inspiring hearing you your passion for this.
Speaker 3: This is great, This is great. And you know, Zeby
Speaker 3: and I are often having these conversations saying, you know,
Speaker 3: men don't talk enough. Men should do this. You know,
Speaker 3: we'd like to see that, and it's really really encouraging,
Speaker 3: really positive to see.
Speaker 2: You know that we can't have them all.
Speaker 1: Listen real quick, I'm sorry, do you know she just
Speaker 1: excluded me. Three of us had that conversation.
Speaker 3: I was saying, from our perspective, our perspective, because the
Speaker 3: thing is, the thing is, we've also had this debate
Speaker 3: that actually, would men come together and do this sort
Speaker 3: of thing, And that's often been the thing.
Speaker 5: That we would We've had those conversations. But you just
Speaker 5: said that you and Zenya have those conversations, but all
Speaker 5: three of us have that conversation.
Speaker 3: I was referring to the perspective of it, because at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, there are some views they're
Speaker 3: not going to come together, they don't do this type
Speaker 3: of thing, But actually they can do that sort of thing,
Speaker 3: and they do and this is what's happening. So it's
Speaker 3: really encouraging to see that.
Speaker 6: I think men have a choice to go to these events, right,
Speaker 6: But I'm myself lessing and Basil. We're trying to encourage
Speaker 6: them to come. You know what, what is it that
Speaker 6: they could come? So instead of saying about the workshop's own,
Speaker 6: I always say things like, there's food, because men love food.
Speaker 6: We have to make sure that the food is right.
Speaker 6: But when I went, I tested the food. The food
Speaker 6: is called. And then there's a gym. They can go
Speaker 6: to the gym, you get me. So these are some
Speaker 6: of the things that men would love to come, even
Speaker 6: if they just come for the gym. And at least
Speaker 6: if they come for the gym and they come for
Speaker 6: the food, they don't come to the workshop. I thank
Speaker 6: god they came.
Speaker 3: They're about to talk to somebody and have some kind
Speaker 3: of conversation.
Speaker 6: They will have a conversation. They will have got this,
Speaker 6: but at least they came.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it is stems from you're
Speaker 4: completely away from your own environment. That's right, okay, and
Speaker 4: people feel more free to talk then. And I think
Speaker 4: when you have that kind of a forum is a
Speaker 4: powerful thing. When you see all men together, especially when
Speaker 4: you see them singing together, it's just powerful, it really is.
Speaker 4: And I think what people are missing when they see that,
Speaker 4: they're like, whoa, the light bulb comes on and they're
Speaker 4: kind of like that. But it is to get that
Speaker 4: to continue once they've left. It's the challenge. But you
Speaker 4: know what, it's like anything. If you don't start, you
Speaker 4: never know what you can achieve.
Speaker 2: You've got to do something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's only one person. Forget about numbers.
Speaker 4: I used to be number person, and I remember, you know,
Speaker 4: Chris Leavey once said to me that at the end
Speaker 4: of the day, it's not about numbers, because you can
Speaker 4: have five hundred people but they're not committed, and you
Speaker 4: can have two people and they're committed. So don't look
Speaker 4: at number because people will watch in the background to
Speaker 4: see how things are going. If they feel it's going well,
Speaker 4: they'll start coming on board. So forget numbers. Just do something,
Speaker 4: because a lot of times people just want to see
Speaker 4: something being done. They see that, they're like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's like they didn't have they probably didn't know how
Speaker 4: to do it, or they probably didn't weren't brave enough,
Speaker 4: but they actually see something. It's like Nicodemus. Nicodemus went
Speaker 4: to Jesus at night because they didn't want to be seen.
Speaker 4: And it's a similar kind of thing. You know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I can't do that, But when they see someone else
Speaker 4: do it, then they start okay, they start supporting it,
Speaker 4: and before you know it, you know, it increases. But
Speaker 4: but yeah, it's just about doing you know. You know,
Speaker 4: there's a saying if you don't start, you can never finish.
Speaker 2: And just to add to that in terms of your
Speaker 2: numbers scenario, it really is if you've just helped one
Speaker 2: So even when you talk about the podcast or the
Speaker 2: conversations that you have on a weekly basis or bi
Speaker 2: weekly basis, if it's just one person that logs in
Speaker 2: and it makes a difference to that one person, you've
Speaker 2: pulled them from the precipice or whatever it is. You know,
Speaker 2: you've given them sound advice that they can utilize or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. If it's just that one person, then
Speaker 2: it's a conversation worth having. You know, we look at
Speaker 2: numbers and think it has to be numbers for it
Speaker 2: to be successful. But no, and then that one person
Speaker 2: could reach millions. You just don't know. So yeah, don't
Speaker 2: be discouraged. It would be my message to you and
Speaker 2: to you Leslie. You know you're doing wonderful work and
Speaker 2: you know it's not a numbers game. It's about the commitment.
Speaker 2: It's about the authenticity. It's about making a difference, and
Speaker 2: you're certainly doing that.
Speaker 4: Raise God, Praise God, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3: With that, our time is fast spent. Can you imagine
Speaker 3: it's always a way because I think we could probably
Speaker 3: be talking for another good half of at least going on.
Speaker 3: But that always means that there is always going to
Speaker 3: be a part two, but always so you know, I
Speaker 3: want to thank you both Devon and Leslie for coming
Speaker 3: on the show to this week to start to find
Speaker 3: Men's Month. It's really encouraging to hear what's happening within
Speaker 3: our churches and what men's ministry is doing across the
Speaker 3: conference and we want to encourage there's been who may
Speaker 3: be listening to get involved. It's on a really big scale,
Speaker 3: as in going to the events and activities or doing
Speaker 3: something within your local church, your local community. Make those
Speaker 3: connections with those relationships and do something to support each other.
Speaker 3: Never know the difference he will make. So if you
Speaker 3: want to get involved. Obviously there's a Real Talk, Real Men,
Speaker 3: Real Talk coming up on the fourth of November up
Speaker 3: so do look out for those posters there and their
Speaker 3: Men's Conference is happening fourteenth to the sixteenth of March
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, and again information can be found on
Speaker 3: the Sapping the Conference website and we'll post some bits
Speaker 3: as well on our site on our look socials as well.
Speaker 3: So I want to thank you both again for coming
Speaker 3: on and sharing what you've been doing. Throughout the rest
Speaker 3: of this month, we'll be talking I suppose Let's Talk
Speaker 3: will do that Real Talk, Real Men, Real Talk, CALO
Speaker 3: type programs as well. We're going to be looking at
Speaker 3: obviously November we talk about the national campaign as you've
Speaker 3: mentioned about focusing on health, physical and mental health, so
Speaker 3: we'll be looking at that throughout the month as well,
Speaker 3: and we're looking at some men who will make other
Speaker 3: men's stories and hearing back the things that they're doing
Speaker 3: in their communities as well. So do you stay tuned
Speaker 3: in to talking points and advantage Readio London. And as
Speaker 3: I've said at the beginning, if you want to get
Speaker 3: involved and we would love to hear your stories all
Speaker 3: the things that you are doing in your churches as well.
Speaker 3: Please to get in contact with us, you can email
Speaker 3: us on studio at Adventist Radio dot London. You can
Speaker 3: text us on eight triple two eight write hope, leave
Speaker 3: a space and then your message. But we can send
Speaker 3: a what's that message on zero seven four five nine
Speaker 3: six four two eight nine eight. Do get in contact.
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear from you, and yes, please join
Speaker 3: us again. Thank you for listening. I hope you've been
Speaker 3: blessed just like we have been heed Joe, would you
Speaker 3: like to pray to close for us?
Speaker 1: I was actually want to add one of the armed
Speaker 1: gentlemen to pray for us this time.
Speaker 4: I mean you can do that.
Speaker 3: Seven or Leslie, would you be up for praying to
Speaker 3: close for us?
Speaker 4: Pray, I'll pray, I'll pray, Thank you us, Pray Heavenly Father,
Speaker 4: loving God, we just want thank you for this moment,
Speaker 4: this time. I just want to thank you for the conversations.
Speaker 4: I pray Lord that this will reach out to men
Speaker 4: that we've not been able to reach.
Speaker 1: Lord.
Speaker 4: We know there's somebody out there, there's a man out
Speaker 4: there who's in need of you, and I pray wherever
Speaker 4: he may be at this time, Father, that he will
Speaker 4: have heard this conversations that we've had this evening, and
Speaker 4: he will know that he is valued, loved, is important,
Speaker 4: and Lord, you love him. So I pray God that
Speaker 4: you'll just be with us in a special way. I
Speaker 4: thank you for this opportunity, maybe with each and every
Speaker 4: one of us, Lord, as we leave this broadcast, but
Speaker 4: not your presence, and then you bless everything that this
Speaker 4: broadcast aims to do and to achieve, so that your
Speaker 4: name and it's all about you, Lord, your name is Glory. Well,
Speaker 4: this is our prayer in your precious name. Amen.
Speaker 2: Amen, Amen, thank you, thank.
Speaker 3: You so much, so thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: So it's good night from all of us on talking point.
Speaker 3: Do you join us again, enjoy the rest of your
Speaker 3: evening and have a fantastic week, and we'll see you.
Speaker 3: God willing next.
Speaker 1: Good Evening.
Speaker 3: Adventist Radio London.
Speaker 4: Inspiration for the song