WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:04.160 Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song. 2 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.480 Today Adventist Radio London. 3 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:19.160 It's talking point, it's talking point, it's talking point, it's 4 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:19.920 talking point. 5 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:22.760 Your conversations. You need to have. 6 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.559 Good evening, good evening, good evening and welcome to talking Points. 7 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:31.559 We're here on Adventage Radio London and I'm thanking you 8 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.600 for joining us this Sabbath evening. I hope you've had 9 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.079 a good sabbath whatever you've been doing, Where have you been, 10 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.640 and that you're glad that you've joined us, and hopefully 11 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.399 you're looking forward to the conversation just like we are 12 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:50.960 as usual. I'm joined by my Christy co hosts. I've 13 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.560 got Senya and Petro. How are you both? 14 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.719 I am well, good evening to our listeners, leaving to 15 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:05.920 our guess leading to you both. Ah, goodness, Where does 16 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.439 the time go? 17 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:10.120 Two days ago? 18 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:10.719 Yeah? 19 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:16.040 Yeah, it's it's did you ask for my week words? 20 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:17.359 Or how I am? 21 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.120 And how's the weekend? 22 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.040 How is your weekend? 23 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:25.719 And we okay, hectic a lot. I'm trying to cram 24 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:32.560 in before I hibernate winter, so meeting up with friends 25 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:37.799 and trying to get everybody you know situated and all 26 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:43.120 the housekeeping and all that stuff done. But yeah, busy week, 27 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:48.040 but productive, and I'm grateful for an opportunity to meet 28 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:52.159 again and talk about another really important topic. 29 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:54.760 How about you. 30 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:59.359 I'm good, good, good evening, everybody, a second afternoon, Good evening, everybody, 31 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.439 Welcome to talking point. My week has been, uh crazy 32 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:08.800 because uh with my poor daughter. She fresh she broke 33 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:11.439 her foot, then she had surgery on her finger, and 34 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:13.199 now she has to wear a brace for like the 35 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.319 next four weeks with her hand kind of cupped because attendant. 36 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.400 So now she has to wear she has to wear 37 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:22.159 this brace for like and do these hand exercises and 38 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:24.719 stuff and so poort things. She just got over the 39 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:27.400 brooken foot. Now she's got a hert hand and so 40 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.039 I'm just hoping she gets you know well, And but 41 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:33.680 that's not it for us. And in terms of work, 42 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:39.039 is always as busy, very event very enlightening. Meet a 43 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.439 lot of different types of people and have good conversations 44 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:49.000 with them, learn different views and just the way people think. 45 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.120 It is good to especially not from being from from here. 46 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.840 It's good to get to learn other people's views and 47 00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:59.319 stuff like that I would never think about. So he 48 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:00.960 has been it's been a pretty good week. 49 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:05.520 Oh and how are you guys coping with the I mean, 50 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.000 it's funny you said good afterning, good evening. It really 51 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:10.240 does feel like evening evening now. 52 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.960 Because of the because of that, yeah, because of the time. 53 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:16.560 And we are in that season where it's getting dark 54 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.120 from very air lips. So yeah, that's been interesting and 55 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:23.319 I think that's kind of thrown me slightly off this week. 56 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:27.639 You're getting used to that, but you know, yeah, I 57 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.520 did that to my son because my son was off 58 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.360 this week, and he was like, oh, can I go 59 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.960 out and hang on some friends. I was like, yeah, sure. 60 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:34.879 I was like, well, just come home at son. You 61 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:36.800 know when remember you say come home when the light 62 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:40.120 comes on when? So he was like, well, Dad, that's 63 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.080 like four thirty. And I was like, wait four thirty. 64 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:44.919 I was like, oh, you're right. I forgot. That's like 65 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:47.479 I'm thinking in my head five thirty six. You know, 66 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.400 come home like when the sun is starting to go down. 67 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:51.120 He was like, with d that's like at four thirty. 68 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.360 I was like, oh wow, Like I just don't even 69 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.879 realize it anymore. I think we get so wrapped up 70 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:00.520 and just doing our regular routine that you don't even 71 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:02.280 I'm out all day, so I see the sun come 72 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:04.759 up and I see the sun go down, So it 73 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:06.840 doesn't my days all mixed up. 74 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:09.080 I just forget what they are most times. 75 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:10.560 Yeah, no, I hear that. 76 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:11.479 I hear that. 77 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:16.879 But we've made it through another week. So yeah, here 78 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.839 we are. And as Senia said, we've got a couple 79 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:23.199 of guests with us today, so we're going to introduce 80 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.160 them shortly. And it's actually the start of November. We're 81 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.279 on to another month already, another another month, I should say, 82 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.160 and yeah, we're getting closer to twenty twenty five. But 83 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.439 we're in the month of November, and traditionally, and from 84 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:41.439 terms of awareness days, it's our Men's month. There's a 85 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:45.600 big campaign called November that's nationally recognized that it's looking 86 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.959 at men's health, best physical and mental health. So we've 87 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.240 kind of jumped on that bandwagon and we're doing our 88 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:54.879 men's months as well. So for the month of November, 89 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.199 our shows are going to be dedicated to our men. 90 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.480 And this week we've got two men on USh, two 91 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:04.480 guests who play a big part in I guess the 92 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.040 lives of men for our church. So we'll be listen 93 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.839 meeting Devin Boyd and Leslie Douglas. So we're going to 94 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:14.199 say quick hello to them. How are you both, and 95 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:20.000 thank you for joining us. Hello, don't be shy, now, 96 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:20.600 don't be shy. 97 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:24.480 Yeah, I'm fine, Thank you, good, good. 98 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:29.160 Thank you for joining us. And Leslie, how are you? 99 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:34.439 Good evening, Angela and good evening, Pego and Zena. I'm well. 100 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.879 Thank you for the privilege of being here. It's really 101 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:41.600 nice and I appreciate that. So yeah, I'm doing well. 102 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.519 I'm doing well. I can't complain. I'll be wrong to 103 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.879 complain considering other people are going through. 104 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.879 So yeah, so thank you for joining us, appreciate that 105 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:52.560 and looking forward to the conversation we're going to have 106 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:56.040 with you guys today as usual. If you want to 107 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.319 join in the conversation and connect with us, please do 108 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:00.360 get in touch. We'd love to hear you Europeans and 109 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.160 your thoughts as well. You can either email us at 110 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:07.079 studio at Advantage Radio dot London, or you can what's 111 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:12.560 appers on zero or plus four four zero sorry zero 112 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.199 seven four five nine six four two eight nine eight. 113 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:20.360 We can text us on eight triple two eight, write hope, 114 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:24.279 leave a space and then write your message. Definitely, I 115 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.000 would love to hear from You've got any thoughts on 116 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:31.399 the conversation that we're having or any ideas around we 117 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.319 were talking about men's ministry today. Do let us know. 118 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.879 Do you get in contact? So we're going to get started. 119 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:40.759 So to start off, we're going to ask our God 120 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:43.759 to come into our presence and to join us on 121 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.920 our show today. So let's pray. Oh my God, I 122 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:48.959 want to thank you for blessing us with a wonderful 123 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.920 daily Lord, and I thank you for the privilege of 124 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.720 being on this in this space, on this platform that 125 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:57.560 we can share a word, share a message, and talk 126 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.879 about things that are pertinent to people that are listening. 127 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.360 I pray, Dear Lord, that as we have this conversation today, 128 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:05.920 that you will indeed bless it. And Dear Lord, it's 129 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.519 an important topic important people within our communities. Dear Lord, 130 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:13.360 and I pray that the work that's been done that 131 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.120 you continue to bless it. If you bless everybody that's involved, 132 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.279 And thank you for hearing and answering, and de Lord, 133 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.040 please bless your show. This is my prayer. 134 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:22.399 Amen. Amen. 135 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:28.199 So, as I said, I mentioned this is November and It's, 136 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.319 like I said, traditionally our men's months, so what better 137 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.199 way to start it off is to really find out 138 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:37.800 what's happening within our church, and we have, I said, 139 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.439 as you've met very briefly Devon Boyd and Leslie Douglas, 140 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.160 who are representing our men's ministry. Devon is our men's 141 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.800 ministry leader for the SEC. I'm going to let him 142 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:52.639 introduce himself a little bit more shortly, but I guess 143 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:57.319 we'll be thinking about Men's Month. It's interesting we do 144 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:58.639 a lot of them on the show. We do a 145 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:01.800 lot of awareness raising kind of type of programs and 146 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.160 often be kind of talking about themes and topics so 147 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.839 sometimes aren't always discussed in church. Now there are men 148 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.920 within our church, but sometimes I have to admit that 149 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.600 I don't necessarily always know what's happening specifically for the men. 150 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.800 I would often hear, and maybe it's just because I'm female. 151 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:22.519 We'll hear about a lot of work going on for 152 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.399 women's ministries and some of the other departments as well, 153 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.920 but sometimes men's ministry I don't really. 154 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:29.439 Hear that much. 155 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:31.680 And now that could just be me, and I'll hold 156 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.559 my hands up to that, but I don't know if 157 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.159 it's as I'm sort say, I don't know if it's 158 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:44.759 as kind of i'most going to say, well known, well received, 159 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.399 or documented, or it's something that happens in all churches. 160 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.080 And now, Xenia and Pedro, is that just me? Or 161 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:54.960 would you say that's the case for yourselves? And that 162 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:55.600 could just be me. 163 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.159 Only the answer. 164 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:06.759 I think I have. 165 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.879 I have a similar perspective to you. I'm a female, 166 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.919 so I mainly maybe I just pay attention more to 167 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:19.799 what's going on for the women, and I'm not as 168 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:24.879 aware of what's going on for our men. So yeah, 169 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:27.200 maybe I should be putting my hand up as well. 170 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:32.360 But hopefully Pedro you have a different perspective. So so 171 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:37.519 waiting to hear your thoughts on it. 172 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.720 Okay, well my thoughts are I think when it comes 173 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:46.159 to men, we discount men. I'm not saying that right, No, 174 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:53.399 we' we not discount them. We've It's like Mother's Day, 175 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:56.159 Mother's Day. Everybody remembers Mother's Day, but on father's days, 176 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.440 like you almost forget the father's day even come around, 177 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.879 even like birthdays, like you know in this mother's birthday 178 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:03.080 and it's the woman's birthday. 179 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.000 It's like, oh, it's my birthday. 180 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.279 Is a birthday, but when the fun like, oh it's 181 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.799 just your birthday, like you know, we get like the ties, 182 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.840 but the mother gets you know, flowers and candies. 183 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:16.360 And you know. I'm just being real, you know. 184 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.600 And I think as men, we just like me as 185 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.799 a male, like I for me personally as a male, 186 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.679 it doesn't bother me because I just feel like, long 187 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.320 as I know I'm doing my job is raising my 188 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.000 kids and being as one with my wife and raising 189 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.639 our household the right ray, I don't need all the 190 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.679 like other But I'm not a big holiday or like 191 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.480 celebration type of person anyway, So I'm not you know, 192 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.480 I don't. I just feel like I just want to 193 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.960 I like to be like in the shadow. I just 194 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:49.080 like to do what I need to do and no fanfare, 195 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.519 no you know, accolades or nothing. 196 00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:53.120 I just want to do what I gotta do and 197 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:54.919 just keep moving along. 198 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:02.279 So sorry to cut you going, no, no, no. 199 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:02.480 Go ahead. 200 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:03.360 What're just gonna say? 201 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.120 Well, I was just wondering if that's if that's the 202 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.519 crux of the matter, then that our men just get 203 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.080 on with it. 204 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:11.639 I think most men don't. 205 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.799 Why Yeah, most men don't voice their opinion, don't voice 206 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.919 that it may bother them, even voice that hey help 207 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:24.240 out us, because I won't speak for other men. I'm 208 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:25.879 just speaking for myself because I don't know, I don't 209 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:28.399 always know other men, you know, think in that sense. 210 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:33.039 I just think that we just it's been it's such 211 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.639 a generational thing where we just are just kind of 212 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.440 just forgotten about sometimes, you know, even even with our 213 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:43.200 mental health, even with our well being sometimes because men 214 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.000 are not supposed to be, you know, soft for men 215 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.799 are not supposed to need help. Men are not supposed 216 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:50.200 to you know, We're supposed to be the walk were 217 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.000 supposed to be the foundation of the marriage. We're supposed 218 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.200 to be the ones that, you know, when things are 219 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.600 going wrong, we're supposed to be to want to pick 220 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.639 it up and set it straight, get it right. So 221 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.559 lot of times we don't get that, we don't get 222 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.000 looked at that way because we're not supposed to be 223 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:06.440 that way. 224 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:15.639 And I just think that you know. 225 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.679 What I'm saying, you sure, yeah, yeah, I. 226 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:17.240 Don't know what. 227 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.960 I don't know what Leslie or Devin may say. They 228 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.960 may tell they may say the total the opposite of 229 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:24.679 what I'm saying, I don't you know, but I'm just me, 230 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:27.240 just me personally. I just feel That's how I feel 231 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:30.840 sometimes when it comes to, you know, one last thing, 232 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:32.399 when a man, when I met one last thing, when 233 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.159 a man does speak up, or whenever a man does 234 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.919 say something, then we're complaining. 235 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:42.759 We're whining. You know, what's soft? You know where babies? 236 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:43.480 You know? 237 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:47.039 Stop complaining, you know, stop what's your problem? You got 238 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:51.399 it easy, like you know, you know. Like so it's 239 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.960 like it's a double sl we we're we're dawned if 240 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.679 we I'm gonna say, Dawn, were dawn if you do 241 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:58.360 if you do it, and we're dawn if you don't. 242 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.879 Pretty much like we we're like walk on a hard place. 243 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:06.039 We don't know which race as we just put their 244 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:06.960 head down and keep going. 245 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:09.240 Interesting. 246 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.799 Okay, so we've got mixed thoughts on this, So I 247 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.039 guess I'm going to hand over to our experts as 248 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:16.399 it were. 249 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.480 I'm not an expert. Let's just make that clear. 250 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:27.559 I say that in the sense of you know, I'm 251 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:35.720 not you know. So over to Devon and Leslie. So, firstly, again, 252 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:38.399 thank you so much for joining us today. But just 253 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:39.919 a little bit of get a bit of for us 254 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.039 our listeners. Get a bit of a background about yourselves 255 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:45.240 as well. Your name's may be familiar to some people 256 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.559 for many who it's not, So what's up with Devon? 257 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.080 Just introduce yourself, tellus a little bit about yourself and 258 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.799 what you do and how you got into what you 259 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:55.480 do as well. 260 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:02.679 Okay, yeah, I'm Devon. Yeah. People call me p w P. 261 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:04.399 I don't want it. 262 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:06.679 And the reason why they called me, well, one of 263 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.679 my colleagues at work they call me p w P. 264 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:16.240 They called me pastor without portfolio. You know, that's what 265 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:22.559 he calls me because he sees me as looking after 266 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.799 being pastoring for all the men in the in the 267 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.799 conference and stuff. Because that's what I do. I like 268 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.879 to to minister to men, to look after men too, 269 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.960 to help men when they're going through stuff, and support 270 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.480 any programs if I can, or if we can possible, 271 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.840 because there is many, many programs and they all want 272 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.279 you there, but we can't get you know, sometimes there's 273 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:51.879 five or six programs in one one sabbath and I 274 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.519 can't get We can't, especially me. I can't get to 275 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.840 all of them. I can only get to one indeed, 276 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.759 and that's why it texts. Like you just said earlier, 277 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.559 it takes a lot, you know, to get me on here. 278 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:04.200 It's because I'm busy. 279 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.799 I appreciate that. This is why I appreciate I can 280 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:12.480 testify that this is a very busy gentleman, but get him. 281 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.080 But you know, it's so good. 282 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.960 I do love this ministry, even though there are some 283 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:22.879 low points where sometimes you know, when you do something, 284 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:28.360 less men comes. And I don't know why less men 285 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.519 want don't want to come to some of these events 286 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.200 because they all say yeah, yeah, yeah at the beginning, 287 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:40.039 and then when it comes to the crunch, you know, 288 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:45.879 they don't turn up sometimes. And that's with women, you know, 289 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.879 they just go. They just go to the events. It 290 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.279 doesn't matter if they have ten children or five children 291 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.519 or two children. They will make a way to go 292 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.879 to the event. And men, we think they're you know, 293 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:04.559 what's important? Is this event important? Or fixing the car 294 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.440 is important? But they don't see as mental health as important. 295 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.320 You know, sometimes we need to get away from things 296 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.879 that we do every day and just join up with 297 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:18.679 other men and have this conversation fellowship and what they were. 298 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:21.240 So I love this ministry. How I got into this ministry. 299 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:28.840 Wow, you're the starting the conference Men's Ministry coordinated. 300 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:33.440 Yes, And how I got into this ministry? Well, first, 301 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:37.519 I yeah, as I said, I'm Devil Boyd and I 302 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.799 also do prison worship. I love music, I do present 303 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:50.240 worship in a different way, and I also speak, I 304 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.960 tried to. Anyway, I'm an elder better see as well. 305 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:57.759 I'm married, I have two children, a wonderful wife was 306 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:04.400 singing evangelist Michelle, and I have two boys, Noah and Isaiah. 307 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.240 And. 308 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.400 I work in the subce But I'm not going to 309 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:15.960 say what deypartment because everybody be on the phone. But yeah, 310 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:21.519 so that's what I do. And the Ministry of Men's Ministry. 311 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.039 How I got in It's kind of a long story, 312 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:27.440 but I was trying to cut it short. So basically, 313 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.559 when I got when I got the call from the 314 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.640 Secretary of the President saying I got email sorry and 315 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:36.960 saying you know you need to call. We need to 316 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.200 talk to you. And I spoke and they said they 317 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.440 sent me an email asking requested me to be the 318 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:47.599 Men's Ministry coordinator. And I couldn't believe it, but I 319 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.440 didn't know if it was from the Lord. So I 320 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.039 did a test. You know, I like to test God sometimes, 321 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.240 And so I said, Lord, if this is for me, 322 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:59.240 this is what I need you to do, right, I 323 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.000 need to have read people phone in me or something 324 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.720 just to confirm and THEEDS free confirmation to confirm that 325 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.079 this is from you. And I went to sleep. And 326 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.799 you know when they say be careful what you pray for, 327 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.680 you get what I'm saying. So so, so I went 328 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.440 to sleep. Then six o'clock in the morning, one pastor 329 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:23.119 called me and said congratulations. I said, congratulations for what? 330 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.839 Did I wear a new suit or did I get 331 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.640 a new suit or whatever it? 332 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:28.200 What is it? 333 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:33.400 And they said, are you know your men's ministry coordinator 334 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.039 one of my elder is going to be the men's 335 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.079 ministry coordinator for the self inn conference. I said, the 336 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:40.640 news hasn't even gone out yet. Time even said yes, 337 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:43.960 and he said yeah. But I said, how did you know? 338 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.079 I said, don't worry, I know a congratulations, I say thanks. 339 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:49.599 So I got to go, and Pastor, I want to 340 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:52.440 go back to sleep to go to work. I went 341 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.359 back and then another phone call, and then another phone call, 342 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.839 then congratulations, and I said, Lord, you said it wo 343 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.480 get me even though the president the president at the time, 344 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.640 he said to me, you know, why are you not 345 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.400 saying yes? I said, I just need confirmation. I can't 346 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.880 just say yes, right, this is this is a serious 347 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.799 ministry for men I'm coming from. So I couldn't say 348 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:21.440 just you know, I need the confirmation from God. And 349 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.240 I've got the confirmation. He said, yes, so fur the 350 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.559 present back and I'm so glad that he gave me 351 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.400 time to get the confirmation and to think about it. 352 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.920 And another thing is I have to ask my family. 353 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.839 I believe if you don't ask your family for backing, 354 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:40.720 you're finished. You get me. So you need to ask 355 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.240 your family for back in, which I did, and my 356 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.039 children say, yes, dam yes, we can go places. 357 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.960 We go here and there. 358 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.480 And then yes, but you need that kind of you know. 359 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:57.599 Even though I got confirmation, I had to ask my 360 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.839 wife and children that's okay with them, because because at 361 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.240 the end of the day, especially when you take up 362 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.599 this kind of post, you're not going to be around much. 363 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.240 You get me, You're traveling all over the place. Your 364 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:13.359 family might not come with you. So I had to 365 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.079 get that confirmation and tell them that we're doing a 366 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.720 lot of traveling et cetera, et cetera, and yes, and 367 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.000 the rest of history, I'm still doing it. I love 368 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:25.279 the ministry and I've got good, great, great co workers 369 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.319 like Leslie and Basil. And I'll tell you this, like 370 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.920 the like the Three Hebrew Boys, if you don't have 371 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.920 good company, m yeah, because I always talk about the 372 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.480 company that you travel with, and they always delight minded. 373 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.519 You might you know, you won't get anywhere in life. 374 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.640 You need to have that good company with you. Especially men. 375 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.640 They need to have someone that's like minded so they 376 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.799 can talk, they can you know, cry, whatever. So I 377 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.720 thank God for Leslie, and I thank God for Basil. 378 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:06.000 To you Lynn, oh, thank you so similarly, Leslie, tell 379 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.480 us a little bit about yourself. Okay, yeah, what were 380 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.240 you doing? Also how you got involved in mine? 381 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.680 It's not as colorful as Devon, but my name is 382 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:20.240 les Douglas. I attended Croydon Church. I have one wonderful 383 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.880 wife who sings in the gospel. Quite got as blessed 384 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.200 with her singing voice. I got involved in ends ministry 385 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:34.079 probably about twelve years ago. When I first I won't 386 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.119 say first, but lets when I first started going to Croydon. 387 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:42.440 I'm not Adventist by a background. I'm a Pentecostal, so 388 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:48.119 my background was it was different and still after all 389 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.880 these years, still adjusting to some things. I think Petri 390 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.240 touched on a lot of it, but it won't go 391 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:55.839 there because we'll need two hours just for that. 392 00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:59.400 The part too. We always say this last year. 393 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.000 Yes, so yeah, so a ten Quoyd and I have 394 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.000 been involved in Men's Ministry from time i've been there, 395 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.039 been the leader at one point, now acting as a secretary. 396 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:16.440 I think for me, why I believe Meningitry supported, it's 397 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:20.119 a forum that I believe the best people to understand 398 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:26.240 men are men. And when you can relate to someone 399 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:32.880 who have those lived experience, who can understand, who think 400 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.400 the same kind of way you do, they're that same 401 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:40.079 men from Mars women for Venus kind of thing. One 402 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:42.519 helps your mental health that you think, okay, so it's 403 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:48.559 not just me. Two, you can relate to people who 404 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:55.440 understand you you're feeling as a man, I can't understand. 405 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.240 I can sympathize with how women feels, but I can't 406 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.039 understand because I'm not a woman. Mm hmmm, So I 407 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:06.559 need a man who can understand exactly where you're coming 408 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:08.880 from not you know, so I think that's important and 409 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.519 we can share experiences, we can learn from each other, 410 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:20.920 and I think it's about iron sharpening iron. I would say, oh. 411 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:23.440 And that's that's a text that I think. I'm trying 412 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.920 to think that that text is from that I actould look 413 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:31.839 it up and yes, yeah, yeah, so that's definitely yeah, 414 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:33.519 that's I've seen that written in Actually, when I was 415 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.000 looking at the page on the SEC website about Men's Ministry, 416 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.480 that's the text is there. So tell me a little 417 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:46.279 bit about then, kind of an overview of your men's 418 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.240 ministry and what it sort of main's mission and goals. 419 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.599 Are you touched a little bit on that? 420 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:58.799 Okay? To me that our main mission is to reach 421 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:04.480 out to our men, to have a forum whereby we 422 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:14.759 can come together to encourage, to enlighten, to support, and 423 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.920 to kick each other. And I say that in the 424 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.960 sense of when we're going in the right that wrong direction, 425 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:24.119 sometimes we don't need a talk, we need a kick 426 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.680 and have men strong enough to say, Okay, this is 427 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:31.880 not a talking business. This is a kicking business though, 428 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.400 to deal with, because sometimes we can be hard headed 429 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.559 when we need a kicking, you know, in the nicest 430 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.880 possible way. But it's about keeping it real. Yeah, I 431 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.519 think that's really important because I think, yeah, I think 432 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.519 it's important. I think it's more so for me. It's 433 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:53.880 about nurturing, it's about building, it's about being able to 434 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.319 understand that a good leader, particularly in the home, is 435 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:06.880 one who's who knows when to be led. So yeah, yeah, 436 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.039 and I'm still learning. I get a lot of things 437 00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:11.799 wrong and I'm still learning. And I think that's what 438 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:14.680 it is. It's it's a production line where you're constantly 439 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:17.039 churning and you're learning, and you're you know, and you 440 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.319 may have to revisit a few times before it actually 441 00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:21.960 sits in because we can be hard headed. But the 442 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.000 point is you're in the right place to get the 443 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.480 right things for that you need, as opposed to being 444 00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:29.319 in the wrong place. 445 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.200 Thank you for that. So definitely, I mean less he's 446 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.799 talking from and it's I guess it's talking I know 447 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:36.400 he works with you and your team as well, but 448 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.599 also from a local church level. Is that similar sort 449 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.440 of thought process in terms of from a global then 450 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.160 from a conference wide perspective? 451 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:53.039 Yes, it is, as as Leslie said, you know the 452 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.640 other I think with usked with the vision. We have 453 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.799 a vision called m I c C. I think it's 454 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.519 called m i CC if I got it right. Men. 455 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:05.920 So men has to reach men so it will meet 456 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.240 so men in the church and the community MCC. So 457 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.319 what the vision we have is men reaching men, That's 458 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:16.119 what because that's the I think that's the best thing 459 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:19.400 that around for men to do. The men can only 460 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.640 reach men. Young men can only reach young men, do 461 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:24.640 you know what I mean? So this is what the 462 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.319 vision that we have. But this year and my other 463 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:31.000 vision is that, as Leslie said, we need to learn 464 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.039 to look after each other as men when we're going 465 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:37.599 through stuff. So it's a book that I used I 466 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.640 read back in school called Off minde Some Men, And 467 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.799 you know, I think the characters was George and Leny. Right. 468 00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:49.079 One was a bit you know, had a bit of 469 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.720 a mental issue. You know, he wasn't really a good thinker. 470 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.240 And the other one was he would look after all 471 00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.640 the situations. But one has a problem. The one who's 472 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:05.319 strong and you know, will step in and help his friend. 473 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:09.720 And and there's a phrase that they use in Off 474 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.559 Mind Some Men, And the phrase that I always tried 475 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.079 to tell the men is I've got you to look 476 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.440 after me, and you got me to look after you. 477 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.440 So basically we have to learn to look after each other. 478 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.440 You get me no matter what happens. So so so 479 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:32.160 if we're stuck somewhere, because I always tell men, testify 480 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:35.880 in church wherever you are your story, not only when 481 00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.359 you're good, but also when you're not in a good 482 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.039 situation I'm coming from, because you can help someone else. 483 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.920 And so, just to tell a little story that was 484 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:51.799 told in the way I'm talking about, is a young 485 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.519 man fall in a hole. He fell in this hole 486 00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.720 and he didn't know how to get He tried to 487 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.480 get out and he couldn't get out. So he's screaming 488 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:09.519 for help, help, help, help, And a lawyer walks by. 489 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.839 And a lawyer walks by, and here's the help, and 490 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.039 he's and he and here's the scream and here's the help. 491 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.799 And he said, Okay, throw some some money down in 492 00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:20.839 the hole, and he tells the He tells the young man, 493 00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:25.599 by yourself a letterer. So the young man goes, my, ham, 494 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:27.720 I'm gonna buy myself a letter when I'm down in 495 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:29.839 the hole, and he throws this mine. So he continues 496 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:35.079 to scream, help, help, help, and the priest walks by. Okay, 497 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:36.839 but I'm going to call this priete. A seventh day 498 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:39.599 event is past away, So this seven day event is pasted. 499 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:44.640 Two walks by, here's the the young man crying for help. 500 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.160 Niel's done next to the hole and praise. And then 501 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.200 when he finished praying, he said, seeing church next Sabbath 502 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:57.400 walks up, and then another young so he continues, help, help, help, 503 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.319 and a younger young man walks by. He there's the 504 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.880 cry for help and jumps in the hole. And the 505 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.480 guy goes goes, why did you jump in the hole? 506 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.240 Why did you jump in that hole? Now we're both 507 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.359 stuck in here, and the young man says, I've been 508 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.559 in this hole before I found the way out. I 509 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.400 jumped in the hole so I can show you the 510 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.759 way out. Meaning if we both help each other out 511 00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:28.079 in whatever situation we're in, and the one person knows 512 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.599 the way out, he can help the other person go 513 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:35.240 out of that. I'm saying this, that's deep, and so 514 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.920 that's what I'm saying. We we as men, you know, 515 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.319 we need to help each other in any situation we can, 516 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.079 and even if we know the way out, because if 517 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.240 we testify and people hear it in church or I 518 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:50.240 hear it in the community, and they're in that same situation, 519 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:54.799 you can have a wonderful conversation, Okay, showing your way out. 520 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:57.960 That's one of the visions that we have. 521 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:03.559 I have a question on tw that. Sorry I said 522 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.680 I had a question. I had a question. 523 00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:07.400 I had a thought on to that in today's generation. 524 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:13.960 In today's generation, the journation that we are now, how 525 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.200 hard is it to get a young man to listen? 526 00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:23.640 Because I find it as as you know, like they 527 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.839 say the ogs will be considered like the ogs. They 528 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:29.279 don't respect the ogs like they used to, and we, 529 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:31.559 you know, we can tell them how we like. 530 00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:32.599 I don't know what it is like. 531 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.559 I have three small kids who are sixteen, fourteen, and ten, 532 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:38.359 and I have a sixteen year old. 533 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:39.319 He's the boy. 534 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.559 When I tell him something, I would say to them 535 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.240 like if I'm telling you, if I'm asking you a question, 536 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:47.640 I already know the answer to it. I'm just asking 537 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.880 you to see if you're gonna tell me the truth 538 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.279 or tell me what you're really going through. Do you 539 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.799 find it hard sometimes with the younger with the younger men, 540 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.599 the young of the boys to get them to listen. 541 00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.119 I mean that's with like jumping in the hole to 542 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.000 get them back out, Like we'll jump in and say 543 00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:06.400 I'm in here with you to show you how to 544 00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.440 get out, but then getting them to listen. How you know, 545 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.599 how hard is that? And I hate I don't be 546 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.839 like devil advocate, I just because I find that very 547 00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.000 I find that because like, just like you guys, I 548 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.039 was listening to you guys, it was so funny, like 549 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.079 my ministry is hit my marriage podcast, and my wife 550 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.079 is also a singer. So I was just laughing when 551 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:29.119 you both said my wife is a singer. I'm into 552 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.240 the men's ministry. My ministry is like towards married men 553 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:35.359 and trying to, you know, help married men with their marriage. 554 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:38.839 But I find sometimes when you tell people things, even 555 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.279 though you've been through those things, it's just getting them 556 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:48.519 to to to listen to like to comprehend. Do you 557 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.119 find that difficult sometimes? I guess that would be mine. 558 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:55.480 Okay for me, I'm not sure what Leslie was gonna say, sorry, 559 00:31:55.559 --> 00:32:01.680 But for me, my relationship must started with my son. 560 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:03.519 For example, when I have a relationship with when I 561 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:07.119 had the relationship with him. It's how you act and 562 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.799 it's what you tell them in your relationship from when 563 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.640 they were born. You get I'm going from and when 564 00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.160 you have that kind of relationship. This is funny because 565 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.759 my son brought me just you know, it's going is 566 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:20.359 at union now, but he brought me something and it 567 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.119 says something about good leadership or something like that. So 568 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:26.640 I thought, so I asked him and I spotted him 569 00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:27.839 by it, and he said, the reason why I brought 570 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:31.160 you this bought because I think that you have been 571 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.400 a good leader to me and I'm going to take 572 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:40.119 that what you've taught me with me while I'm at UNIQ. Yeah, 573 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.559 and it's because we have that relationship from the beginning. Okay, 574 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.079 I have a relationship where you know, if you know, 575 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:51.759 you do things together, you know, fix things together. And 576 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.599 then when you achieve that, you are high five that 577 00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.880 sort of thing, and and you hug your son no 578 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.599 matter how tall they are, no matter you are, kiss everything, 579 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.400 and you tell them you like you have that you 580 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.920 have that kind of relationship with them. Once you get 581 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:13.480 that relationship, they will tell you anything. It just depends 582 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.039 what kind of relations relationship is important. You know what 583 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:19.640 I mean? When God has a relationship with us, or 584 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.240 we have a relationship with him. It depends how the 585 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:26.519 relationship is going. If you keep everything a secret, you're 586 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.839 not having a good relationship. You've got to somehow, you know, 587 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.960 have that you know, like a like for example, you 588 00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:36.920 have like a you come on from church, what do 589 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.000 you do? You will go to your separate rooms and 590 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.720 watch your you know, the iPad or or whatever. Or 591 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:48.000 you sit as your family play a game you get me, 592 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:51.079 or watch your film together. You know, that's what we 593 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.200 do on Saturday night. We watch a film together, we 594 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.599 play games or whatever. You get me. This is that 595 00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.720 kind of relationship. And you know I always say I'm 596 00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.279 going to win all the time. They all love me, 597 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.119 you know, because I never win anywhere. But I just 598 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:04.960 dropped that in you know what I mean. Or we 599 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:11.880 talk about the other day, I spoke at a church 600 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.199 and I had to talk about men's health. And I'm thinking, 601 00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:16.000 how am I going to do? What am I going 602 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:18.400 to talk about men's health in the Bible? Wait, I'm 603 00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:22.000 searching about men's health. But when I have a conversation 604 00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.320 with my son, I text my son and we have 605 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.320 a conversation about it. He's eighteen. I have a conversation 606 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.559 with him, that is the kind of relationship we have, 607 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.440 and he will say, oh, that's interesting, and then he'll 608 00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:36.159 come up with something I so yeah, yeah, yeah. And 609 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.559 when you put it all together, I had a sermon yeah, 610 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:42.000 because I have that relationship with my son, because I 611 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.239 realized now that whatever happens, he will talk to me 612 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:51.119 about anything. Now outside that. With the young people at church, 613 00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:55.159 when I was speaking up front, they don't like fake ness. 614 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.800 No they don't. 615 00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.679 If you're fake, they ain't talking to you. It's what 616 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.960 you do. They will see you get I'm coming from. 617 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.639 So if you're doing this, they will say, okay, boy, 618 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:09.239 you're fake. 619 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:10.719 I'm going to go somewhere else. 620 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.400 That you have to have. So wherever I go and 621 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.840 I speak, a lot of young people come up to 622 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:17.760 me and they want to talk to me because they 623 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.679 don't have that conversation that they have with the family. 624 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:28.119 There's something wrong. So we have to try our best 625 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.039 as men, because young people are looking up to us 626 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.440 in church right they have no ways, they're looking at 627 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.119 us as role models. And if we're not doing the 628 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.639 right thing in church, they will find somewhere else to 629 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.159 go or someone will say I'll give you a pair 630 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.639 of trainers to do something for me, and they will 631 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.519 go that way, or they will look at somewhere else, 632 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.760 they will look at someone else to If we can't 633 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.039 get the answer in the church, because there is no 634 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.719 one to talk to, we have to have the patience 635 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.440 and the time to sit down and listen to them 636 00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.000 because we're not the older men are not getting in stressed. 637 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:02.519 Young people are going through stress as well. The problem 638 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:05.920 is they have no one to talk to where they're 639 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.000 going to go, so they go outside. 640 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.800 Your sorry, go carry on a delay here. I was 641 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:21.840 just wondering, are you are you targeting a specific age 642 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:28.039 in your events and your your focus or does everyone 643 00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.639 come together in the events, come together in the meetings 644 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.679 from the eighteen year old to the eighteen year old. 645 00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:37.639 How how do you kind of streamline that to get 646 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.239 our young men talking to our young men, or even 647 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.000 our young men talking to our elders. 648 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.000 When we do events, I try to target from eighteen 649 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:53.880 to upwards. Okay, but it's very difficult, so you have 650 00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:58.079 to do separate programs sometimes, and then when you do 651 00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:02.679 the separate programs, then there's a day you joined them together. 652 00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:05.920 But It's interesting when I had the last when I 653 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:12.679 went to Wilsdon's Men's Men's retreat, because it's interesting that 654 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.719 a young man just went up to the front because 655 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.679 he wanted to say something, and I thought, wow, no 656 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:23.519 one forced him, but it's probably the relationship he has 657 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:26.199 with the leader and he was able to go up 658 00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.000 the front and say what he feels about what was 659 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:33.920 happening in this retreat. And I thought, Wow, for a 660 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:39.079 young man to do that, it's amazing, do you know 661 00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.880 what I mean? And sometimes I feel sometimes we need 662 00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:46.360 to change the way we because you know, after COVID, 663 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.480 we need to we should change the way we do things. 664 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.119 But we've gone back to doing the things that we 665 00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:59.079 used to do before COVID, do you know what I mean? Definitely, 666 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:03.639 because we've got people come into the church after COVID, 667 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.039 and we keep going back. You know, when we have 668 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.519 our church, we have all this long list in the 669 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:14.119 booklet of how you know divine service And before we 670 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:17.000 were talking about this we should change, which is changed 671 00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:18.920 at the end of we haven't really changed. We've just 672 00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:20.320 gone back to our old ways. 673 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.639 Yeah, we love tradition. 674 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:27.480 Yeah, I was just about to say tradition tradition. 675 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.239 That's that's we We fell prey to that, just like 676 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:35.440 other denominations before pray to being traditional, and we need 677 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.000 to stop. Do we need to be able to think 678 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:38.480 outside the back Sometimes you do. 679 00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:41.599 Have to because even with afternoon programs. So I don't know 680 00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:44.039 if Leslie agrees with me, I don't mind bather study. 681 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.039 We should have Baba study. I don't mind those sorts 682 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.199 of things. But the afternoon program was really for young people. 683 00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:53.159 I was saying to walk past her. The afternoon program 684 00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:55.679 should be for young people and they should be the 685 00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:56.360 one running it. 686 00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.920 Well, isn't it called a y Yeah, which is what. 687 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.719 Society right. So what I'm saying, right, they should be 688 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:09.199 able to do those sort of programs, right. But what 689 00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.559 happens is that because the young people, there's no young 690 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:15.280 people they have Bible study, or there is young people, 691 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:18.440 but they're still going ahead with Bible study. And then 692 00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:20.159 where are the young people to go to Bible study? 693 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.320 They're not interesting. And I'm not saying that Bible study 694 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.960 is wrong. All I'm saying is sometimes we need to 695 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.880 get young people to say, look, I want to talk 696 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.679 about this, because at the end of the day, when 697 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.159 they step out of the church. They're facing the worldwide. 698 00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:36.960 When they finish school, they're going to UNI, They're facing, 699 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:41.840 you know, what's happening outside, and we're not teaching them 700 00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.000 how to behave outside, or to sort out the budget, 701 00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:48.199 or to how to you know, we're not doing those 702 00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:53.880 conversations or the birds and the bees so so so 703 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:58.599 so they now will find a conversation outside, and the 704 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.480 thing about church right with come to faintness. Some of 705 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:03.840 them will say to me, and I'm telling you the 706 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:05.960 truth because I don't know, you know, if you know, 707 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.800 they say. Sometimes some of them say, when I reach 708 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:16.119 eighteen and they go to UNI, as the song says, 709 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.519 they're free at last, free at last because nothing is 710 00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:23.280 happening inside. 711 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.960 I totally agree with you on that, but I think 712 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:31.639 especially if they go away, like I'm from Bermuda, Yeah, 713 00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:34.760 growing up in New York, and I always think about this, 714 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:36.159 like a lot of the kids that I went to 715 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:38.119 I went to church, I went to Northeastern and Great 716 00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:42.239 New York and New York and behind and I will 717 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:48.039 say seventy percent of my classmates are no longer adventors 718 00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:53.360 or not even practicing seven being seven inventors once they 719 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:53.920 hit uni. 720 00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.519 They flew the coop. They just like you said, free 721 00:40:57.519 --> 00:40:57.920 and lives. 722 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.119 They just they were just biding their time and so 723 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:02.360 they can get out the house. And once they get 724 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:04.639 out the house and they got to taste of the outside, 725 00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:09.199 because they didn't get that, you know it, they just 726 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:11.320 totally left. 727 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:13.480 And some have left and come back. I left and 728 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:14.000 came back. 729 00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.079 But I totally, I totally get what you're saying, because 730 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.280 I think we'll back on a little bit what you're 731 00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.239 saying because I think about that. I think transparency is 732 00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.679 the most important thing, and I think it works even 733 00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:25.840 not with junk people, works with older people too, because 734 00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:28.960 as me being fifty, if I'm looking at somebody talking 735 00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:31.639 and he's talking a bunch of like I call it 736 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.920 a use cast salesman, I don't I tune out. Even 737 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.360 at fifty, I'll tune out. I won't listen because I'm like, 738 00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:40.559 he's not being real. Like you can tell when somebody's 739 00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:43.719 being genuine and when somebody's just up there talking to 740 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:47.360 just talk, you know, if they're talking and they say, oh, 741 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:48.599 if you know, if you do it, if you buy 742 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:50.920 this book for nineteen ninety nine, I can show you 743 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:52.719 the way you're like, as soon as they do that, 744 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.440 I shut down. 745 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:56.400 I'm like, oh, nope, you know, like he's my money. 746 00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.400 Like, I don't know why this is my thinking, but 747 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.119 I I totally agree with what you were saying about 748 00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:07.039 with and reaching the different demographics are men. 749 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:11.199 Yeah, and well I'll let Leslie talk because I'm talking 750 00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:11.519 too much. 751 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:13.880 Yeah, yeah, I was. 752 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:15.880 I was going to say, you know, for me, a 753 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:17.960 lot of devins of this true. I think there's two 754 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:21.719 words I'd probably use. One would be relationship and the 755 00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:24.920 second one would be intentional. And I think with our 756 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:31.239 young people, you cannot give advice. I wanted to talk 757 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.360 with young people. If you don't have a relationship with them, 758 00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.239 they're just not going to want to know. Number one. 759 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:42.519 I think what has helped me it's been part of 760 00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:47.679 Pathfinders because you're working with that group. And what I 761 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:53.360 found my personal experience was before, prior to being in Pathfinders, 762 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:55.960 you will see them, you say hello, and they may 763 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.360 say hello to you. But what I found being in 764 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.079 Pathfinders now they will come and say hello and make 765 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.199 it a habit to make sure they're come and say 766 00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:05.599 hello to me. And people will come and say loo 767 00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:08.480 to me. That I weren't even having those conversation with before, 768 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.800 simply because sitting in a class with them in path Finders, 769 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.480 going on camp with them, and having a different kind 770 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:18.960 of relationship with him outside of church. They remember that. 771 00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.599 I remember one guy who doesn't even go to our church, 772 00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:26.719 but he comes to our Pathfinders and after camp meeting 773 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:28.920 we had the camp it finished was at church one 774 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:30.880 day and all I heard it was less less when 775 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:32.519 I looked around it with him and he was introducing 776 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:35.639 me to his family. They don't go to church. I 777 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:39.159 was with him today actually going through some stuff with him. 778 00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:43.599 And what that does is that builds bonds and relationship 779 00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:46.800 because what I tend to do is try to find 780 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:48.960 something we have in common. And nine times out of 781 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:52.639 ten it's sports, since either football. So I have banter 782 00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.199 with them. There's a fewer support Man's City for your arsenal, 783 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:57.440 So I'm always telling them that if you be, I'm 784 00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:59.000 going to bury you. Know, I'm going to burry you. 785 00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:02.440 So we have this all the time, this banter. And 786 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:05.000 you know, some of the directors said to lest you 787 00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.119 can't say that, but I'm going to I'm going to 788 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:11.679 bury him, bury him. So we have this banter and 789 00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:14.559 then when they misbehave, I'll be chasing him like a 790 00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:15.800 kid around it. But I'm going to kep and I 791 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.320 catch up going to bury, you know. So we have 792 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:21.360 this banter and and because of that, it builds a bond. 793 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:25.199 So now when I come and have a conversation with them, 794 00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:28.599 they intend to listen. They intend to listen. And it's 795 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:30.880 the same thing now being part of the teen's ministry. 796 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:33.679 You build relationships with people. You know, we have meetings 797 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.920 every Wednesday by the stead of Wednesday, so you have 798 00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:38.159 so when you do see them now and you have 799 00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:40.559 a conversation with them, you know, and they's say two 800 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:44.239 things like oh yeah, not too bad. You know, I 801 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.079 have a bad week bla blah blah blah. Don't say 802 00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:49.960 I pray for you free for them right there, and 803 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.840 then they appreciate that so much. Sometimes they'll be like, 804 00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:55.679 what pray now, because well, yeah, we're at church and 805 00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:00.559 we why why delay? And you'd be surprised that one 806 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.639 little thing they remember that, and that could be they're 807 00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:08.360 cracking the door that you're looking for. So it's about 808 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:12.599 building relationship and being intentional about things, you know, going 809 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.199 out his way and saying how are you doing? You know, 810 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:18.079 even in talking their friend just and I think that's 811 00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:21.280 what's important. And when they see that, then they'll start 812 00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:23.679 slowly opening up. And I think one of the challenges 813 00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:28.519 we have as older folks is that we weren't probably 814 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:33.639 taught how to do that by our parents. And what 815 00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:37.760 we have to do is teach ourselves, you know, so 816 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:39.960 that we have those skills. And that's something I learned 817 00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:45.880 from my mum, that what she did was understood her generation, 818 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.480 where she came from, but also understood where I'm coming 819 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.960 from as a child, and like Christ did meet you 820 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.000 at the point of your need, where you're at, not 821 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.559 where you should be, but where you're at. And that's 822 00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.840 what my mom did with me and something I learned 823 00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.000 with my children. I've got children who are in their 824 00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:05.639 thirties now, and even now, they still want their time 825 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:08.760 with me. If I've not been with them for a 826 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.559 time and we talk a lot, if I've not physically 827 00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:14.079 been with them anything. It's like my daughter Dad was 828 00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.199 what's go on in? What's guan in? When I hear that, 829 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:18.599 I know what that means. And if I go and 830 00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.840 spend time with her and Michael hears that, it's like 831 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:24.119 he's on the fight, what's going on? Where's my time? 832 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:26.800 And I've had that from since there were children, and 833 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.679 even now the adults they still want that because you've 834 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:31.679 built and they'll talk to me about things that we 835 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:35.599 did when they were younger that I've forgotten about. So 836 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:38.119 it's relationships and it's really important. And when you sit 837 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:41.039 down and talk to people about their interest, not just 838 00:46:41.079 --> 00:46:42.719 what you want to get across to them, but talk 839 00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:44.800 about what they want to talk about. Because when you 840 00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.320 constantly talk about things you want to tell them, all 841 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.719 they see you as is like a headmaster. You're not 842 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.639 interested in them. You're just interested in them in that 843 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:58.000 they do that they're not causing any problems. So it's 844 00:46:58.039 --> 00:46:59.519 like a tree. You want to get rid of the 845 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.960 tree than go to the route. You're going to the branches, 846 00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.000 cutting the branches, and they wonder why is it still growing? 847 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.159 So they want to talk about things that interest them, 848 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:09.159 and you know, and they'll talk language and it's like, 849 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:11.800 well it's different. I don't understand what they're saying different, 850 00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.480 And I asked them and they'll laugh at me, and 851 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:15.320 we have this banter. 852 00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:15.800 You know. 853 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:18.000 I remember one year I said, and they asked me, aless, 854 00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:20.800 I'm old to you, and I told them they're like, okay, 855 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.400 Karen and teaching the class. About two minutes later, one 856 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:27.000 of them said to me, uncles, did you know Moses 857 00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.519 because and that's their way telling me you're old man. 858 00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.719 So we have this banter, and you've be surprised how 859 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.000 something as simple as that goes to what sort of 860 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.559 things they enjoy doing outside of church, what sort of 861 00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:44.440 the school? And when your intentional about them, they will 862 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:46.480 come and talk to you about things they really do. 863 00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:49.239 So it's about relationship and being the intention about it. 864 00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:51.079 Those are the two words I would probably. 865 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.440 Say before if I ask another question. There's something important 866 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.280 that Leslie said which I always like to say that 867 00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.800 young you know us men older men to be a 868 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:05.679 role model, we have to be involved in something that 869 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:08.800 they do, and I didn't. I'm still trying to get 870 00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:13.440 why men don't want to do part Finders. I'm still 871 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.199 trying to get that into my head because there are 872 00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:20.400 a lot of young men or young boys in parth Finders, 873 00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.039 and most of the people that are doing counselors or 874 00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:31.840 or or master guides or leaders there. Most of our ladies. 875 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:35.840 There's hardly any men. And for us to have that 876 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.920 relationship with young people, we've got to be involved in 877 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.119 some of the stuff they do. And one of them 878 00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:44.760 is Pathfinders. And I'm telling you, if you're in path Finders, 879 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.280 you get you know, I'm in part Finders. I'm teaching 880 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:53.039 my class. And men they give you they call your uncle, 881 00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.880 as he said, you call uncle. They give you enough respect, 882 00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:02.079 you know what I mean, because you're there with them. 883 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.039 And that's that's that's that's what. 884 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.440 Yeah, it's really important. I mean I had important one 885 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:11.239 student who went to on holiday one summer to America, 886 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.000 and she came back and she said, Macha, let's I got 887 00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.760 you something. I'm like, really, and she brought me a 888 00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:22.880 tie and the clature to match with it. And that 889 00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.480 touched me. It really touched me because once she didn't 890 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.440 have to do it. But more importantly, why he touched 891 00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.039 me was that it made me realize that while she 892 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:35.079 was away on holiday in a different country, she was 893 00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:40.119 still thinking about it. That's right, and and that was 894 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:43.719 just so powerful, so powerful. Now and she's introduced to 895 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:45.800 her friend, so I now know her friends and they 896 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.960 come and say hello, and it just goes and goes 897 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.119 and goes, and it's so important. And that's all that 898 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.039 through pathfinders because you're with them in a time for 899 00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.679 them at camp, you're going through different things with them, 900 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:02.199 learning different things, you know, and and it just it 901 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.360 just builds that bonds and it's really it's really good 902 00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:06.719 and I think, you know, it's a shame that we 903 00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:09.360 don't have more men in it, but it's just a 904 00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:19.000 way that you can learn to to to relate to them. 905 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.760 You have to relate to them on terms that they 906 00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:26.119 can understand, you know, and that they're comfortable with, and 907 00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:28.960 allow them to just say A to you. That's all 908 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:30.559 they want to say. When they're ready to say B, 909 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:33.280 they will say that. But just give them that space. 910 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.800 And I think it's with that relationship when they grow older, 911 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:42.599 they'll be able to talk to you about anything. And 912 00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:44.559 that's the that's the topic, you know, because what they 913 00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:47.480 are looking for role models. We're supposed to be role models. 914 00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:50.320 That's why a lot of them join gangs and things 915 00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:53.480 because they're looking for something that they can call a 916 00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.920 family if you like, you know, they want to fit in, 917 00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:00.599 they want to be feel important, they want to feel 918 00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:03.760 that they're seen and not just heard, that they're seen 919 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:07.559 in a way of I know you, how are you doing. 920 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:11.480 Let's have a chat that they're seen acknowledged. You know. 921 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:17.119 Yeah, yeah, it's ironic that you both were talking about that. Angela. 922 00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:20.079 I'm gonna get you for a minute, because I was 923 00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.679 just telling my wife that because I grew up in 924 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:26.760 Pathfinders and as I got older, we just the churches 925 00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:28.679 I went to just and have it, and we don't 926 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:31.199 have path finders up here really in some of the churches. 927 00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:33.159 But I was just saying to my wife that, you 928 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:35.000 know what, because we look at the move and I 929 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.679 was like, we moove, we need to move like near 930 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:41.480 a church that has Pathfinders because I want our children 931 00:51:41.559 --> 00:51:44.960 to start going to Pathfinders, because I think, like what 932 00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:48.760 you said, it is just a it's growing up. I 933 00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:51.599 was in a church school all day Monday through Friday, 934 00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:54.480 church on Saber for this Sunday, I was in Pathfinders. 935 00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:58.199 I develop a big, strong relationship with a lot of 936 00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.320 people because I saw them seven days a week, like 937 00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.440 minded teenagers, like minded children. 938 00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.960 You know that we can all fall back on. 939 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.519 We have our rep sessions on Saturday evenings after a y, 940 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:12.639 we have a social and it just helped us to 941 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:16.119 navigate through things that we was all going through, you know. 942 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:20.440 And to your other point about I think when we 943 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.599 talk to young people and even to adults, I think 944 00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:24.400 it's a matter of. 945 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:25.360 When we talk. 946 00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:28.639 It's more also about what I use in marriage term 947 00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:32.719 active listening, where we listen, because a lot of times 948 00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:36.800 young people have a tendency to shut down because if 949 00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:39.119 we're doing all the talking, or we're not letting them 950 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.039 tell us what they feel and actually listening to what 951 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:45.760 they feel and taking it in. They can recognize that too, 952 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:47.639 and they say, well, he's act like he's listening, but 953 00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:49.880 he's not really listening. So they kind of shut down, 954 00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:51.760 and then they don't tell us what they really are, 955 00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:54.599 what they really are thinking. And then with that not 956 00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:56.880 judging them or not saying to them, hey, you know, 957 00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:58.760 why would you do that? You know, how could you 958 00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.519 be like, you know, like just listening to them and say, Okay, 959 00:53:01.559 --> 00:53:03.559 how can we work this out? What can we do 960 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:05.480 to make you do better next time? 961 00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:05.760 You know? 962 00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.280 So I think that's a big important part. And with 963 00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:11.639 you guys, with your ministry and how you deal with 964 00:53:11.719 --> 00:53:14.559 men and stuff is just listening to them and then 965 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:18.679 like giving ideas or just help them navigate through what 966 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:22.039 they what problems they're going through. So that's what I 967 00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:23.760 got from just listening to you guys. I'm sorry, it 968 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:25.880 was just on my mind. But definitely path find the 969 00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.159 thing that path find the thing is definitely is definitely 970 00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.239 a point that is well taken because we need we 971 00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:33.559 need more of that because it definitely builds character. And 972 00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:36.360 you know, do they still do the well, you know, 973 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.480 you get the badges and stuff with the yes, Okay, yes, 974 00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:40.920 it's been so long. 975 00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:42.639 I don't I can't listen. 976 00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.480 Such with pride. I even teased them when they've got 977 00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:48.400 more than me, I'm like, listen, we need to make 978 00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:49.920 a deal here. You've got more than me. How can 979 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.960 we what can we do swap here? How these fun 980 00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:00.000 things with them and encourage them and oh yeah the woodland, 981 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:06.159 how to how to do six points of knowing how 982 00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:12.440 to set up a tent? Yeah, I remember, I remember 983 00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:16.480 it all like a point. It's really good. I've learned 984 00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:18.920 a lot from it, learned a lot learned with them, 985 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:23.239 So that's really good. But yeah, yeah. 986 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:26.119 Okay, Well we'll take a break there and then we're 987 00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:28.360 going to come back to just hear a little bit 988 00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:31.119 more about the types of programs that you do. And 989 00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:32.639 I love that said, the fact that you were saying 990 00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:35.840 talking about that it's relational and intentional, because I guess 991 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:38.159 in your planning a lot of that will have to 992 00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:40.960 come into that, you know, to know people know what's 993 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:43.159 going to connect, help them connect. So we'll take a 994 00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:45.280 break there for some music, and then when we come back, 995 00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:46.840 we'll have a little bit more about what. 996 00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:05.840 I've heard, thousands of stories of wood, thank you, why. 997 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.559 The tenders wistfuls of in the dead of the light agy. 998 00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:16.800 Town that you will please them and never. 999 00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:29.920 You're a bod faure. 1000 00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:31.239 And I love. 1001 00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:34.119 It's wife. 1002 00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:37.599 It's wine. 1003 00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:44.239 In the world. 1004 00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:50.400 See many searching for hands ay, so right by time 1005 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:56.400 we are searching for ans that only you can reflat you. 1006 00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:02.480 What we need before me say you because you want to. 1007 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.400 Good your fun? 1008 00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:21.480 Sure, sure, And I'm looking bits White's white. 1009 00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:27.840 Because of. 1010 00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:34.280 You are. 1011 00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:00.679 Un deniable. His hardest began to be so on the 1012 00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:05.599 next final I just all this thing as you call me, 1013 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.800 did it will still as you call me. Indeed you 1014 00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:13.360 will still as you're calling me. Indeed it was still 1015 00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:14.079 into us. 1016 00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:17.719 Because you're a good God. 1017 00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:29.880 It's sure, sure, and I'm looking by. 1018 00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:35.320 It's it's. 1019 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:41.119 People. 1020 00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:39.719 Love, it's who, it's who you're up. It's who you're up, 1021 00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:43.000 and I'm a love by. 1022 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.480 It's rue, it's where. 1023 00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:57.480 It's okay. So we're back with our show. Thank you 1024 00:58:57.559 --> 00:59:01.880 for that for to So we are starting our Men's 1025 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:06.599 month month of November. How we're here already and we've 1026 00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:10.480 been having a conversation about some men's issues, but what 1027 00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.000 we're looking at this month this show is our men's 1028 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.079 ministry within our church and we have got a SEC 1029 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:21.320 so I think the conference men's coordinator Devin Boyd and 1030 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:25.320 Logie does legacy lead Douglas Here's from Croydon but also 1031 00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:28.320 part of Devon's team, and we're just kind of talking 1032 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:32.280 a little bit about men's ministry, why it's important and 1033 00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:36.199 the kind of things that they make a big part 1034 00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.719 of that. And so far we've been talking about relationship 1035 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:44.360 building being keeping it real, making connections being really important, 1036 00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:48.320 and we were just talking before if you didn't catch 1037 00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:50.159 the show, but just joining us, we're just talking about 1038 00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:53.320 especially how you can make the connections between maybe the 1039 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:56.920 young and old or different people within your communities in 1040 00:59:56.960 --> 01:00:00.719 your groups. So all I wanted to find out is 1041 01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:02.920 kind of some of the activities that you put on 1042 01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:05.119 and the events that you put on to kind of 1043 01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:08.840 foster those relationships as well as a conference wide as well, 1044 01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:12.440 because I'm sure there's there's similarities or things that kind 1045 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:14.880 of cross over. But what I wanted to ask, actually, 1046 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:18.679 do you find devon that there are men's ministry teams 1047 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:23.760 throughout our churches? Do most churches have a men's ministry department? 1048 01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:28.519 Arms and larger churches or the small church or does 1049 01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.920 it really depend on how many men are within the 1050 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:34.199 church or what do you generally find as you go around. 1051 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:38.440 Well, now this year there's there's a bit more men's 1052 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:44.760 ministry popping up in different churches, which is great news. 1053 01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:49.880 It's not I don't think there's enough, But it depends 1054 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:53.599 on how many men's in in in their churches, because 1055 01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:57.679 some churches don't have any. Yeah, and they don't have 1056 01:00:57.719 --> 01:01:00.800 any you know, and they don't even have a a 1057 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:04.920 men's department or anything. So I encourage, I try to 1058 01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:10.320 encourage those churches especially that even if you don't have something, 1059 01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:15.519 do something. You get I'm coming from. And so even 1060 01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:18.719 if they just sit together and say, Okay, let's do 1061 01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:22.559 this this this quarter. You know, they don't have and 1062 01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:25.039 someone takes that on. They don't have to be leaders 1063 01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:27.599 for the whole year. They're just doing an event for 1064 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:31.119 men only. So do something for men, because what happens 1065 01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:34.159 in our church is is that we go to church 1066 01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:39.920 and we we see each other. On the Sabbath, we 1067 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:41.679 go to church, we see each other, and then we 1068 01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:43.440 forget about each other for the rest of the week. 1069 01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.559 And also so I feel like not only doing events, 1070 01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:50.199 but contact each other throughout the week because you never 1071 01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:53.920 know if someone is sick, because someone is you know, 1072 01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:59.840 COVID was really, you know, really one of the bird 1073 01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:03.519 things that happen in this country, right, And I was 1074 01:02:03.519 --> 01:02:07.000 thinking to myself, you know, when they told us that 1075 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.639 we are not allowed to go out, and I'm thinking 1076 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:13.519 to myself, I was, you know, there are ladies probably 1077 01:02:13.559 --> 01:02:16.119 in the same situation, but for men. There might be 1078 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:17.960 some men living on their own and I have no 1079 01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:22.320 one but the four walls to talk to, do you 1080 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.320 know what I mean? And you know they could, so 1081 01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:27.559 that's where, you know, I don't know where we're gonna 1082 01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:30.199 have that conversation. But real men Real Talk came alive 1083 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:31.679 because of that. 1084 01:02:32.679 --> 01:02:34.559 Yeah, real men, real talk. What's that? 1085 01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:41.519 Oh? Sorry, real men. Real talk is a it's a yeah, 1086 01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:48.840 thank you, a platform for men to come and just talk, right, 1087 01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:54.480 just talk about anything, any issues, any men's issues that 1088 01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:58.199 they are right. Ladies sometimes do come up and we 1089 01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:05.760 have to, you know, asked them to exit. You know, 1090 01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:11.000 there's no room in the inn for you, you know 1091 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:13.679 what I mean, No matter what God over, a few 1092 01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:19.679 come with. There's only three kings, not queens anyway, right, Yeah, 1093 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:27.280 so there's just men coming to talk about any issues 1094 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.480 I don't have, and real men, real talk about That's 1095 01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:33.000 how it was born because when we had that problem 1096 01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:36.519 of COVID, I just sat there with you know, Basilan, 1097 01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:39.079 just I sat there and I said, you know, what 1098 01:03:39.119 --> 01:03:43.719 can we do for men to not feel alone in 1099 01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:49.320 the desert? And so we thought off this platform and 1100 01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:54.679 we tested it because you know, in the past, men 1101 01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:57.599 don't like, you know, going to events or whatever. So 1102 01:03:57.639 --> 01:04:00.480 we just did a test run and about thirty men 1103 01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:04.440 came on. Oh and so I said to the men 1104 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:08.400 when we finished, I said, do you want this to continue? 1105 01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:12.679 And I said yes, So, so how frequently to continue? 1106 01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:17.320 So they said it every week. I said, okay, So 1107 01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.559 we had a difficult job of finding speakers, you know, 1108 01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:26.320 topics et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it's been 1109 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:28.639 a blessing and telling you some of the things, the 1110 01:04:28.840 --> 01:04:31.559 topics that we talked about or some of the presentation 1111 01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:36.239 has been a blessing. Even even one where less men 1112 01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:40.519 came was cooking. We did one cooking where men can 1113 01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:43.360 teach how you can cook salmon and all that, and 1114 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:46.519 less men came. So I don't know why. 1115 01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:52.039 Interesting And that's really interesting that you have this because 1116 01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:55.159 I know and this has been an ongoing discussion and 1117 01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:59.519 debate within our team in terms of, you know, there's 1118 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.079 this is something that men should get together and do. 1119 01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:04.639 And for one long time I hadn't realized this is 1120 01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:07.320 a program that you had been running and it had 1121 01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:09.559 started from then, and it was always often on the 1122 01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:12.559 back of you know, as women. I mean, our show 1123 01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:14.679 is called Talking Point, so we like to talk, we'd 1124 01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:18.039 like to discuss what have you, But we sometimes find 1125 01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:23.559 that sometimes that men don't speak. But sometimes they don't 1126 01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:26.000 and I don't always want to get involved. And you know, 1127 01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:29.280 it's often said that men sometimes struggle to open up 1128 01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:32.400 a back their personal issues, things they're going through. So 1129 01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:37.119 it's almost surprising that something like this would be that 1130 01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:41.519 popular because of that. However, it seems that actually is 1131 01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:44.199 a popular thing. Some that you've been running for that 1132 01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:46.079 amount of time and you obviously getting people who are 1133 01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.719 coming in to speak and to share and to open up, 1134 01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:53.000 and it's something that they obviously want. I mean, was 1135 01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:54.480 that a surprise for you on. 1136 01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:58.599 That in that perspective? From that perspective, well, it was. 1137 01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:01.360 It was a surprise. It was surprised we've got but 1138 01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:06.960 you know, it wasn't. Wasn't because you know, for example, 1139 01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:08.639 I thought, oh yeah we can, we can get a 1140 01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:10.760 hundred men. We could. You know, we get one hundred 1141 01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:15.360 men everywhere every time, but not one hundred men turn up. Yeah, 1142 01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:21.480 sometimes there's fifteen. And this is where you know, you 1143 01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:24.519 feel a bit down. This is what me I'm going 1144 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:27.199 to tell you the truth. Right, I'm opening up. Sometimes 1145 01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.360 I feel down when there's like seven men or nine men. 1146 01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:34.440 But when you've got men like Leslie or or or 1147 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:39.599 Basil or someone else, they encourage you to just keep 1148 01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:44.280 going no matter how many turn out. Because this program 1149 01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:48.599 is important for men to have a conversation about anything, 1150 01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:52.039 you know what I mean, men come on and all 1151 01:06:52.039 --> 01:06:54.519 of a sudden, you know, just just now. For a 1152 01:06:54.639 --> 01:06:57.480 few weeks, we're just having we've just been having prayer 1153 01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:00.639 because there are men out there that need prayer. They 1154 01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.599 we we we've been requesting men, what do you want 1155 01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:07.360 to pray for? And some of the things they I'm 1156 01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.760 surprised that they want prayer for, and we've been praying 1157 01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:12.679 for them. And sometimes the prayer takes up the whole 1158 01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:19.400 of the program because men need prayer, Hm, you get me, 1159 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:21.599 because they might not get prayer for anybody else, but 1160 01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:26.719 they need prayer and and and and prayer for specific things. 1161 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.599 And that's what we've been doing. Uh and and it's 1162 01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:34.199 and afterwards, you know, you hear men saying thank you 1163 01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:38.280 so much. I really needed that because at the end 1164 01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:39.840 of the day, they have no one else to turn to, 1165 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:43.000 you know, they have no one else to turn to. 1166 01:07:43.639 --> 01:07:45.639 And that's the thing that we need to talk about. 1167 01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:49.360 Who when they're going through stuff, where they where should 1168 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:52.840 they go? You know, what signposts they can go to? 1169 01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.079 Where can we sign post them to to get help? 1170 01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.159 I mean, the thing is, there are there are places 1171 01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:02.840 and they are see, but is the challenge actually getting 1172 01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:06.880 them to seek help or seek support, or to actually 1173 01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:10.920 turn to someone to try and talk to. And I 1174 01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:15.440 say that because I think we were talking affair that 1175 01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:20.199 actually sometimes sometimes men may think they're okay, even tho 1176 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:24.720 they're maybe going through stuff and they're having ongoing challenges. 1177 01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:28.680 Society unfortunately has kind of and I think it's getting better, 1178 01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:31.800 but there is a society view that men need to 1179 01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:33.840 be the strong ones and to suck it up, and 1180 01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:37.439 they can't show any vulnerability, you know, they can't, you know, 1181 01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:39.560 there's things may be seen as a sign of weakness. 1182 01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:44.279 But and Devin, you mentioned this as as song you 1183 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:46.600 to kind of go back to that mentioned a little 1184 01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:49.159 bit about in terms of, you know, the phrase it's 1185 01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:53.560 okay not to be okay. That's not always That's not 1186 01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:57.000 a message that many men sometimes be. I think it's 1187 01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:00.000 getting better, and I think with you know, more conversation 1188 01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:04.920 just about mental health, you know, even if the challenges life, 1189 01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:07.359 et cetera, those things are maybe coming a bit more 1190 01:09:07.399 --> 01:09:10.159 to the forefront. But for a lot of men, that's 1191 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:12.640 not the message that they're hearing, and that's not what 1192 01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:14.159 the expectation maybe. 1193 01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:14.560 Is of them. 1194 01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:16.640 I mean, do you find do you find that is 1195 01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:18.800 that something that maybe comes up in when you're having these. 1196 01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:23.600 When I spoke at Yes, I said on men's health, 1197 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.399 the first thing I said to when I was speaking 1198 01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:33.720 was that when we talk about men's health, we always 1199 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:36.199 talk about prostate cancer, We'll talk about high blood pressure 1200 01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:40.640 or whatever it is, but we never say anything about 1201 01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.680 men's mental health. We don't have that conversation and all 1202 01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:47.640 the you know, and you can you hear the men saying, yeah, 1203 01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:49.920 that's you know. And then that's when I came in 1204 01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:53.960 with it's okay not to be okay because we come 1205 01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.359 with the front. But we might when we get home, 1206 01:09:57.479 --> 01:09:59.680 we might be I'm not saying it's happening, but we 1207 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:02.760 could be abused by our wives or or we might 1208 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:05.720 have debt problems or or and we don't even talk 1209 01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.359 to anybody about it. We can't even talk to our 1210 01:10:07.399 --> 01:10:08.239 wives about. 1211 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.239 It, or or. 1212 01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:13.840 We have we have a problems relationship with our children 1213 01:10:13.880 --> 01:10:15.399 that we haven't spoken for a long time, and all 1214 01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:18.920 that kind of stuff. Or even going to church, it's difficult. 1215 01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:20.760 They don't want to go to church because there's someone 1216 01:10:20.840 --> 01:10:24.560 in church that they don't like, or they just don't. 1217 01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:27.840 One man said to me, you know, after COVID, he 1218 01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:32.680 said something like, you know, I'm still believing God, but 1219 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:38.079 the church and they don't come, do you know what 1220 01:10:38.119 --> 01:10:41.199 I mean? These are sort of the things that meant 1221 01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:45.399 going through trauma, you know, and we don't talk about it. 1222 01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:49.680 But all we talk about is postrac And I'm not 1223 01:10:49.680 --> 01:10:52.359 saying postract councer is not important. I'm not saying that. 1224 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:58.920 But the mind, huh. To me, it's important because you've got, 1225 01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:02.319 you know, you to have that peace of mind. And 1226 01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:03.840 the only way you've got to get that piece of 1227 01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:05.680 mind is that you've got to get to the source 1228 01:11:05.720 --> 01:11:08.800 to sort up that peace of mind. And thank God 1229 01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:10.880 that we have God to give us even though we're 1230 01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:14.279 going through problems. We pray and we get that piece 1231 01:11:14.319 --> 01:11:17.640 of mind. The people who don't have God are going 1232 01:11:17.720 --> 01:11:20.840 through the storm, right, But at least we have that 1233 01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:25.439 peace of mind. That's what I think. And men are 1234 01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:28.720 struggling in churches, but we're not hearing anything. They don't 1235 01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:31.439 want to talk about it because they feel ashamed because 1236 01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:34.479 of being of a man. They are shamed. You know, 1237 01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:37.359 we always sing about some don't be a shame of 1238 01:11:37.399 --> 01:11:39.680 the gospel, but they're shamed of telling other us about 1239 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:43.319 their problems. You got I'm coming from. And so we 1240 01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:50.159 you know, we need men who are you know, are 1241 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:56.079 able to talk about this kind of issue, right, even counselors. 1242 01:11:56.119 --> 01:11:57.920 We have counselors in our churches, but some men don't 1243 01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:00.720 want to talk to the counselors in our churches. I'm 1244 01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:04.079 telling you the truth, right, they don't want to even 1245 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:06.239 talk to them because they're still part of the organization, 1246 01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:10.399 but they will talk outside, right, you get me. So 1247 01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:14.079 I just feel that we need someone that, you know, 1248 01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.079 when we do when we talk, when we have Men's 1249 01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:21.199 Day or anything like that, Let's talk more about mental health, 1250 01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:26.199 m right, because if we don't, some of our men 1251 01:12:26.880 --> 01:12:31.800 will commit suicide or we'll go somewhere else if we 1252 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:36.239 don't talk about it, they're going to do. After the program, 1253 01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:38.439 all of the men just came up and they're just 1254 01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:42.279 so they were so thankful that we could talk about 1255 01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:46.079 mental health instead Aposta cancer. 1256 01:12:46.119 --> 01:12:46.520 All the time. 1257 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:49.680 I'm not saying it's not important. I'm not doing wrong. 1258 01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:52.119 I'm not saying we should get ourselves checked out. All 1259 01:12:52.119 --> 01:12:54.479 that kind of stuff that is important. We are supposed 1260 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:56.319 to get ourselves checked out, but we also need to 1261 01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:57.199 check out our minds. 1262 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:01.319 I mean interesting, it should really be a holistic. It 1263 01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:06.840 should really be holic, you know, looking at all aspects. Yeah, 1264 01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:08.840 definitely mental health and. 1265 01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:10.560 Even young men are suffering that way. 1266 01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.840 Have you got programs that are because I'm hearing you 1267 01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:19.600 talk about some of the issues that you are facing, 1268 01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:24.399 either putting on events or getting persons, not necessarily putting 1269 01:13:24.439 --> 01:13:28.039 on events, but getting our men to attend these events. 1270 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:33.439 Do you try to do analysis is not the word. 1271 01:13:34.159 --> 01:13:38.520 Maybe just put out feelers or ask or kind of 1272 01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:42.159 get an understanding of where our men are. What are 1273 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.800 the topics that they really wanted to hear about? Because 1274 01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:50.439 you're saying some are more attended or better attendant than others. 1275 01:13:51.039 --> 01:13:52.399 I mean, I don't know if our men feel like 1276 01:13:52.479 --> 01:13:56.039 cooking is reserved for the women. I thought that was 1277 01:13:56.159 --> 01:14:00.439 long I philosophy, that's strong being buried. But maybe that's 1278 01:14:00.479 --> 01:14:03.159 what our men feel that. You know, our women are 1279 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:05.439 the ones responsible so that they don't have to hone 1280 01:14:05.479 --> 01:14:10.520 their skills. But but are their particular topics that you've 1281 01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:17.640 figured out are more are more useful men men are 1282 01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:20.319 more in tune with? And are those the ones that 1283 01:14:20.560 --> 01:14:23.000 perhaps those are the ones you put put on most 1284 01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:25.279 maybe tag on the cooking at the end of that, 1285 01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:28.159 so they're already in the building, they already you know, 1286 01:14:28.239 --> 01:14:30.479 you've already got their attention, and then you tag on 1287 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:32.479 the other ones. What I'm trying to find out is, 1288 01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:35.760 if you're sourcing out, what are some of the major issues, 1289 01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:39.159 some of the major topics that our men are looking for? 1290 01:14:39.399 --> 01:14:44.159 And I salute you. I'm sure my my my co 1291 01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:48.039 hosts know my passion for mental health, particularly as it 1292 01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:54.119 concerns our men. The statistics are just overwhelming there, they're gray, 1293 01:14:54.199 --> 01:15:00.239 they're bleak, their dismal concerning our men, and and the 1294 01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:04.199 fact that they don't speak, so many suffering silence, and obviously, 1295 01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:09.640 as you've mentioned, so many of them just decide that 1296 01:15:11.079 --> 01:15:14.760 enough's enough and they take their own lives. So on 1297 01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:18.119 top of having a focus on mental health, what are 1298 01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:22.199 some of the other issues that you find are more 1299 01:15:23.119 --> 01:15:24.680 well attended or more well received? 1300 01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:26.439 One question? 1301 01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:34.359 I think what I find from a local level. I mean, 1302 01:15:34.439 --> 01:15:38.720 we've got a new leader who's got some really great initiatives, 1303 01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:46.680 and we last month we had men's breakfasts, so they 1304 01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:50.520 will come have a breakfast have a presentation and have 1305 01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:52.880 a time where we can just come together, have somebody 1306 01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:54.640 to eat and chat and et cetera, et cetera. And 1307 01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:57.000 I think that band is really good. We've had a 1308 01:15:57.119 --> 01:15:59.000 social as well where that helps. 1309 01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:02.039 And I think so other men and the men are 1310 01:16:02.119 --> 01:16:03.960 more responsive responsive. 1311 01:16:04.039 --> 01:16:08.640 If there's food, they're more food. And if it's social, 1312 01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:11.000 because what do you what you find? And one of 1313 01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:12.880 the main I think one of the main it's not 1314 01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:14.439 the only one, one of the main differences I think 1315 01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:16.640 with men and women opening up is that if you 1316 01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:22.119 set a forum, women was just run to that. With guys, 1317 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:27.760 it's either in a barbershop, if there's an event going 1318 01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:30.680 on where they can focus on playing this or doing something, 1319 01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:33.439 then they'll start opening up. But if the focus is 1320 01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:36.680 just that, they're reluctant to open up. They need to 1321 01:16:36.760 --> 01:16:40.279 feel comfortable. And I think with us there's a trust element. 1322 01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:44.279 So for example, i'd say something to you and I 1323 01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:46.880 hear that from someone else, I ain't trusting you ever again, 1324 01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:51.039 that's it, You've done. That's how we are. And it's 1325 01:16:51.039 --> 01:16:53.560 the same attitude we have in our relationship with I 1326 01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:56.520 tell my wife something and that comes back to me. 1327 01:16:56.920 --> 01:16:59.760 That's it, I don't. I'm not saying anything more. That's it. 1328 01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:04.439 So in that respect, that's why it's challenging, very difficult 1329 01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:05.920 to get people to open up, because you. 1330 01:17:06.039 --> 01:17:06.479 Have to have. 1331 01:17:08.199 --> 01:17:13.000 A time where people can feel comfortable, feel safe that's 1332 01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:16.199 probably the best word. Where they feel safe and feel 1333 01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:19.279 that what is being said one is not going to 1334 01:17:19.279 --> 01:17:21.319 be used against them. Two, they're not going to be 1335 01:17:21.439 --> 01:17:28.520 looked at differently, and three most importantly, it ends where 1336 01:17:28.600 --> 01:17:30.880 they are. It doesn't come out of here. And I 1337 01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:35.359 think if you can capture all of those, then for me, 1338 01:17:35.520 --> 01:17:37.000 that's a recipe to success. 1339 01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:41.159 Yes, with your with your I mean, I really love 1340 01:17:41.239 --> 01:17:45.079 how you've put that. With your zoom That's what I'm 1341 01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:48.880 assuming here. Is it a zoom zoom setting, a zoom 1342 01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:50.439 platform that you do thee All. 1343 01:17:50.359 --> 01:17:52.560 Right, So we have every Friday, we have a zoom 1344 01:17:52.600 --> 01:17:54.840 platform where we have Bible study. And it's not always 1345 01:17:54.880 --> 01:17:57.039 Bible study. A lot of the times it's just prayer. 1346 01:17:57.479 --> 01:17:59.680 And sometimes we have Bible studies so I may say, okay, 1347 01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:02.199 we're going to study Revelation or Ephesian or something. So 1348 01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:06.600 we have that every Friday. Then out of that came 1349 01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:09.039 guys who wanted a bit more so we have prayer 1350 01:18:09.079 --> 01:18:12.680 Mondays and Wednesdays, so that came out of that. We 1351 01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:17.840 also have so within So those are the two actives 1352 01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:19.279 that have run all the time. 1353 01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:22.720 So that the one you said that was both in 1354 01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:25.800 COVID or for our talk. 1355 01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:29.640 Yeah, that zoom, that's national. Yeah, so that's that wasn't 1356 01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:32.640 on a local level. That's a national level, but on 1357 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:35.159 a local level. Those are the sort of things. So 1358 01:18:35.239 --> 01:18:40.159 we have every Friday and Monday and Thursday, not Wednesday, 1359 01:18:40.520 --> 01:18:45.720 Monday and Thursday. Yeah, prayer. We also have what we 1360 01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:48.319 are starting now is that every month we have one 1361 01:18:48.399 --> 01:18:53.600 meeting on zoom and one meeting together okay physically in 1362 01:18:53.680 --> 01:18:56.960 the building, physical in the building, and then we have 1363 01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:00.520 social So those are the three things that are happening 1364 01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:04.039 every months. And so the meeting face to face meeting. 1365 01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:06.239 So the next one is on the tenth of November 1366 01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:09.119 and the theme is how to be a good husband 1367 01:19:09.159 --> 01:19:12.920 and how to be a good father. So we'll have devotion, 1368 01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:16.479 we'll have that for half an hour thirty five minutes, 1369 01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:19.880 then we'll have lunch. Then the leader will then do 1370 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:23.720 a presentation and then we'll have a time together. 1371 01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:25.640 And that's that. 1372 01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:27.640 So those are the sort of things we've put in place. 1373 01:19:27.720 --> 01:19:30.159 And from that, what he's put together is a survey, 1374 01:19:30.359 --> 01:19:32.199 and a survey we'd look at the number of things 1375 01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:34.880 in terms of what ministry you're comently involved in, what 1376 01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:37.560 MEANSTRM would you like to get involved in, what would 1377 01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.199 you like to see happen in the industry, those sort 1378 01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:42.239 of things, and they'll fill out that survey that will 1379 01:19:42.279 --> 01:19:46.600 come back. Based on that, we'll then look at how 1380 01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:49.439 we what programs are put in place. So one of 1381 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:52.479 the initiatives we want to do is which we used 1382 01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:55.720 to do, is one we want to start doing a 1383 01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:00.680 saber squad lesson with the shuttings, okay, and the other 1384 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.720 thing we wanted to start doing that we had stopped 1385 01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:09.119 prior to COVID. We got these jackets. We've got jackets 1386 01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:10.720 and T shirts and stuff, and what we used to do. 1387 01:20:10.840 --> 01:20:14.520 We used to go out and sort of do people's gardens, 1388 01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:20.840 do little dio wire around people's homes, and particularly elderly 1389 01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:23.920 we used to shove all the snow from their front 1390 01:20:24.119 --> 01:20:26.079 so they can come out quite safely, and things like that. 1391 01:20:26.439 --> 01:20:27.800 So those are sort of things we used to do. 1392 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:31.720 And one initiative we want to start back doing again. 1393 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.560 So things like that we used to do, we started, Well, 1394 01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:36.800 it's in plan for us to start in a new 1395 01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:37.880 year to do those things. 1396 01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:42.680 And just one more question, and Jia, was when you 1397 01:20:42.920 --> 01:20:46.800 spoke of particular churches that are either too small or 1398 01:20:46.920 --> 01:20:51.640 don't have men in numbers, isn't it possible for them 1399 01:20:51.800 --> 01:20:54.000 to merge or to come across or to pop in. 1400 01:20:55.319 --> 01:20:59.359 So what you're doing, Leslie, isn't exclusively for your church, 1401 01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:02.319 or you'll come unity if if someone is near enough 1402 01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:06.000 or excited enough they can they can join. 1403 01:21:07.119 --> 01:21:10.359 Yeah. Yeah, we invited the neighborhood churches and let them 1404 01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:12.920 now put that out because it's not just for the churches, 1405 01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:14.880 for the community as well. We try to do the 1406 01:21:14.920 --> 01:21:20.039 community and the local churches within the vicinity we come along. Yeah. 1407 01:21:21.039 --> 01:21:24.239 And that to me that because he's reaching the community. 1408 01:21:24.319 --> 01:21:28.279 I've always said right that we as men, we should 1409 01:21:28.279 --> 01:21:30.920 try and reach the community as well. And I had 1410 01:21:30.960 --> 01:21:35.159 one idea which was which the church did try to represent. 1411 01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:39.079 But the ball turn it down was men like to 1412 01:21:39.159 --> 01:21:42.479 talk in a barber shop. You get me. Men will 1413 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:45.880 talk when you got to barbershop, right, men talk, I'm serious. 1414 01:21:46.119 --> 01:21:48.760 They talk about cricket, They talk about the West Indies 1415 01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:50.439 or they used to play and they don't play it 1416 01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:53.239 no more. They talk about they just talk in the 1417 01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:56.079 barber shop. So I suggested, why don't we have a 1418 01:21:56.199 --> 01:22:01.199 barber shop, even if it's just a quarterly barbershop, right, 1419 01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:05.840 something that can cut hair, invite the community. And that's 1420 01:22:05.880 --> 01:22:10.000 when men will start talking. And the difference is you'll 1421 01:22:10.039 --> 01:22:14.399 have clean music mm hmm. Right, you have clean air 1422 01:22:15.239 --> 01:22:18.880 because sometimes a barber shop, you know, they're smoking weed 1423 01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:21.760 or whatever. So you have that, you have clean air, 1424 01:22:22.119 --> 01:22:27.159 and you have clean conversations. Yeah, and even if you 1425 01:22:27.199 --> 01:22:30.479 put e a TV, it will be a clean you 1426 01:22:30.520 --> 01:22:31.680 know what I mean, because when you got the barber 1427 01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:34.520 shop is different. But when you when you have in 1428 01:22:34.880 --> 01:22:38.119 a in a Christian sense, you have you know, you 1429 01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:40.159 probably have gospel music out there or something like that 1430 01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:42.279 so people can watch it. All I'm saying is that 1431 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:46.680 when men, you know, like barbershop, men can talk. Men 1432 01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.119 talk and then talk about anything. And also what I 1433 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:53.279 like about another thing like is you know when we 1434 01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:56.520 have these gatherings, you know, you if gatherings have to 1435 01:22:56.600 --> 01:23:01.600 be frequent, not too frequent, but it's continually because men 1436 01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:06.239 get bored very quickly, right, and if it's not for example, 1437 01:23:06.239 --> 01:23:08.399 if you have it once and it doesn't happen again 1438 01:23:09.479 --> 01:23:12.159 next time you put it on, they just you know, 1439 01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:14.960 forget it, you know what I mean. So it has 1440 01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:18.159 to be like a continuous like every quarter or something, 1441 01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:23.119 and then you know more men will will come and join. 1442 01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:25.399 And let's not only doate for the men in the church, 1443 01:23:25.880 --> 01:23:27.880 but let's do it also for the men in the community. 1444 01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:29.920 Because of this is why I'm saying this is because 1445 01:23:29.960 --> 01:23:32.399 I went to one program. I went to one program 1446 01:23:32.960 --> 01:23:34.760 because that's what we're do in men Ministry this year, 1447 01:23:35.079 --> 01:23:41.319 we've been helping with finances with other churches programs. Right. 1448 01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:46.720 So I went to one program where the person decided 1449 01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:51.119 to invite men left the church. So he sent out 1450 01:23:51.279 --> 01:23:55.279 invitations for all the men that left the church to 1451 01:23:55.479 --> 01:23:59.880 come to an event, right, And it was a fellows 1452 01:24:00.279 --> 01:24:03.079 men's fellowship. And they didn't do it in the church. 1453 01:24:03.319 --> 01:24:05.199 They did it in the school because they didn't want 1454 01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:09.239 it in the church atmosphere. And when I went about 1455 01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:14.079 thirty five men came and all they did was we 1456 01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:16.119 didn't put on because you know what we do sometimes 1457 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:19.920 we bring the church to the event. The program I'm 1458 01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:22.239 talking about. They didn't do none of that. They just 1459 01:24:22.359 --> 01:24:25.199 came chat. Never see each other for a long time. 1460 01:24:25.279 --> 01:24:25.840 How you doing? 1461 01:24:26.119 --> 01:24:28.760 You know that kind conversation? Men, There was an old 1462 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:33.239 all an an old call tea in a car, were 1463 01:24:33.279 --> 01:24:35.960 sitting outside and the men looking at it. It was 1464 01:24:36.119 --> 01:24:37.920 nice and clean and shut. It was really nice, I'm 1465 01:24:37.960 --> 01:24:40.479 telling you. And you know we talk about you know, 1466 01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:43.720 the car, the engine, you know, and you know when 1467 01:24:43.760 --> 01:24:46.840 you see folks. And then out of that they said 1468 01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:48.239 at the end of it, they said, you know what 1469 01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:51.199 we should do because it was one particular church, They 1470 01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:55.439 said we should all go to do a service in 1471 01:24:55.520 --> 01:24:59.479 the morning at that church. And they all said, yes, 1472 01:24:59.560 --> 01:25:03.199 no problem. They left church, you know, so we didn't 1473 01:25:03.199 --> 01:25:04.680 have to tell them about church because they know it. 1474 01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:08.079 If we did that, they're gone, they're not there, don't 1475 01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:10.720 want to know. We had a different kind of conversation, 1476 01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:14.800 and I think that was the brilliant way of of 1477 01:25:16.560 --> 01:25:20.319 bringing men that used to We're not talking about members 1478 01:25:20.359 --> 01:25:22.119 in the church. We're talking about used to because they 1479 01:25:22.119 --> 01:25:25.560 haven't been there for years, got invitation and bring them 1480 01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:29.239 to come and talk with each other about anything. And 1481 01:25:29.520 --> 01:25:31.760 you can see some of them, you know, they're health wise, 1482 01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:34.840 they're healthy. They're not so healthy that they were before 1483 01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:38.199 or or you know, they might be going through divorce 1484 01:25:38.359 --> 01:25:42.520 or whatever. But it was good to see them. Good 1485 01:25:42.560 --> 01:25:45.600 to see people that I used to sing with, and 1486 01:25:45.680 --> 01:25:48.560 now they're going to put on an event which is brilliant. 1487 01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:50.880 And then they had that WhatsApp group, you know, WhatsApp 1488 01:25:50.920 --> 01:25:54.600 group for men I think should be because I don't 1489 01:25:54.680 --> 01:25:56.880 like this. You know, these forward messages we get black 1490 01:25:57.279 --> 01:25:59.920 you know, from China and it reaches us. You know, 1491 01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:02.039 I look it full in this message. I don't like them. 1492 01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:07.279 The WhatsApp group for men I think should be the 1493 01:26:07.359 --> 01:26:09.199 man puts on there and say, look, I'm having financially 1494 01:26:09.199 --> 01:26:12.079 difficult Can you pray for me? Or I need five 1495 01:26:12.199 --> 01:26:15.119 men to come and help me in the garden, you 1496 01:26:15.159 --> 01:26:17.880 know what I mean. That's what the WhatsApp group should 1497 01:26:17.960 --> 01:26:21.640 be for that kind of conversation, you know what I mean, 1498 01:26:22.079 --> 01:26:26.199 not these forward messages. You know, once I see them, 1499 01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:28.800 I'm out, you know what I mean. But when I 1500 01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:31.680 see that kind of conversation and then they say, oh 1501 01:26:31.720 --> 01:26:33.520 yeah I'll be able to get there, Oh yeah I'll 1502 01:26:33.560 --> 01:26:35.399 be there. Oh yeah, I've got a car. I can 1503 01:26:35.479 --> 01:26:38.119 help you carry the you know that sort of thing, 1504 01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:41.039 or I can help you with the garden, or there's 1505 01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:42.960 a domino competition down the bottom of the road. In 1506 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:44.880 our church. Come come and they say, oh yeah, we 1507 01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:48.960 come in. Make sure you bring a supermode. This is 1508 01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:52.479 the kind of conversation I love to see and hear, 1509 01:26:53.279 --> 01:26:57.159 you know what I mean, And so that is important. 1510 01:26:57.279 --> 01:26:59.840 I think these kind of gatherings from men. That's why 1511 01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:02.439 I like when you go to football or you go 1512 01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:04.119 to apartment and you see all these men. It's not 1513 01:27:04.159 --> 01:27:08.039 about the drinking, right, It's about the gathering, and it's 1514 01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:13.479 about the talking. And also, you know, we should you know, 1515 01:27:13.560 --> 01:27:17.960 the hugging. You know, we love you. We're there for you. 1516 01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:21.119 You know, if we find it hard to say love 1517 01:27:21.199 --> 01:27:24.600 to our children, our sons, how can we say we 1518 01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:25.399 love someone else? 1519 01:27:27.279 --> 01:27:27.439 You know. 1520 01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:30.960 So this is all the things that we should be grasping. 1521 01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:35.039 You should we should be doing reaching out to our 1522 01:27:35.159 --> 01:27:37.800 men because they just need that little you know, that 1523 01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:41.680 smile can go a long way you get mean, and 1524 01:27:41.840 --> 01:27:44.600 the thing is right when they come, When they come, 1525 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:47.399 we don't have to say oh, you know, because we 1526 01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:49.760 do that in church. Sometimes when people leave church and 1527 01:27:49.800 --> 01:27:52.359 they come back. I tell you know, you know, I 1528 01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:55.039 tell you you know you shouldn't leave it. No, we 1529 01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:57.079 don't need to do that. Man, we have to have 1530 01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:00.880 a different kind of conversation. Just don't saying, because silence 1531 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:03.399 is golden. That's why I love the story about the 1532 01:28:03.439 --> 01:28:07.359 prodigal son. When he came home, the father didn't say anything. 1533 01:28:08.239 --> 01:28:11.479 He just gave him a hug. Because he came home. 1534 01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:15.720 We don't have to say I tell you you should 1535 01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:17.479 have got out there and spend your money or whatever. 1536 01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:21.039 He came home. And what I learned about that story 1537 01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:26.239 is that we as Christians or as fathers, should tell 1538 01:28:26.960 --> 01:28:30.399 you say to my son, no matter how far you've been, 1539 01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:33.920 no matter how far you've gone right, no matter if 1540 01:28:33.960 --> 01:28:36.279 you squander your work or you went to university and 1541 01:28:36.359 --> 01:28:39.319 he decided to give up halfway, the door is always 1542 01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:42.159 open for you to come back home. That's what I 1543 01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:44.079 learned the story from the prodigal son. The door is 1544 01:28:44.239 --> 01:28:47.479 always open for you to come back home. So these 1545 01:28:47.760 --> 01:28:50.720 folks they want to come back home. The question is 1546 01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:51.840 is the door open? 1547 01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:56.159 And also who maybe have left, but also there's new 1548 01:28:56.239 --> 01:28:59.159 people who are seeking and looking for a community. 1549 01:28:59.399 --> 01:28:59.960 That's correct. 1550 01:29:00.119 --> 01:29:02.239 And what I like about what you're saying there in 1551 01:29:02.359 --> 01:29:06.199 terms of the gathering, but also the practicalities of some 1552 01:29:06.279 --> 01:29:08.800 of it as well, in terms of utilizing skills like 1553 01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:12.079 going gardening or doing DIY. It's things that they can 1554 01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:15.760 practically help which actually then gives the opportunity to meet 1555 01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:18.600 to connect as well. 1556 01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:25.720 Yeah, definitely, So yeah, it's you know the men. You know, 1557 01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:30.880 men they need a purpose in life. They need a 1558 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.640 goal in life, you know what I mean. And if 1559 01:29:33.640 --> 01:29:36.119 they've got no goal, they've got no purpose in life, 1560 01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:39.960 you know what I mean. And that's why you know 1561 01:29:40.159 --> 01:29:43.279 one in my presentation, men, you need purpose in life. 1562 01:29:43.359 --> 01:29:45.039 What is your purpose? What are you going to do 1563 01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:47.199 in five years time? What you're going to do? What 1564 01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:49.960 is your goal? You've got no goal? What are you here? 1565 01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:51.079 You know what I mean? 1566 01:29:51.239 --> 01:29:51.760 We need that. 1567 01:29:51.960 --> 01:29:54.560 Men need that sign of thing, and they need other 1568 01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:58.039 men to help them push them to that goal, to 1569 01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:03.079 work together and not be stagnant. And we become lazy, 1570 01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:07.319 you know, we start blaming, We start you know, you know, 1571 01:30:07.760 --> 01:30:11.199 because someone else is doing we don't do it, especially ladies. 1572 01:30:11.239 --> 01:30:13.960 When the ladies are doing something. Why am I about 1573 01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:17.319 ladies when they're doing something when you should be the 1574 01:30:17.399 --> 01:30:17.840 one doing it. 1575 01:30:20.800 --> 01:30:23.119 But as you and as you're saying that, I guess 1576 01:30:23.159 --> 01:30:24.960 that's also because I guess that's a message that you 1577 01:30:25.039 --> 01:30:27.800 are trying to put across. How can sort of, you know, 1578 01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:32.640 we and I say, the real way, in terms of families, friends, women, 1579 01:30:33.560 --> 01:30:37.319 the church, how can we really support our men effectively? 1580 01:30:37.960 --> 01:30:41.800 Because actually sometimes and you mentioned something that Leslie mentioned earlier, 1581 01:30:41.840 --> 01:30:44.359 sometimes you come together to talk to ship. But some 1582 01:30:44.359 --> 01:30:45.880 of this a bit of a kick. But how can 1583 01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:48.640 we kind of effectively do that kind of from the outside. 1584 01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:52.239 I'm not a man, so I don't necessarily understand the 1585 01:30:52.279 --> 01:30:54.079 struggle that you go through, the things what have you. 1586 01:30:54.399 --> 01:30:57.199 But I want to encourage, I want to support. How 1587 01:30:57.239 --> 01:30:59.600 can I do that effectively that actually might make a 1588 01:30:59.600 --> 01:31:03.000 difference to kind of us shure or encourage them to 1589 01:31:03.439 --> 01:31:07.279 get involved in stuff, do more activities, you know, or 1590 01:31:07.439 --> 01:31:10.399 try and find the purpose or you know, reach out 1591 01:31:10.560 --> 01:31:13.560 to seek help and support, to make lifestyle changes or 1592 01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:16.920 to do different things. What can what could I do 1593 01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:19.079 that's going to really make a difference and be effective? 1594 01:31:20.079 --> 01:31:25.840 I think I think two thing comes to me when 1595 01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:29.840 I hear that. One inclusion, because I think sometimes what 1596 01:31:30.039 --> 01:31:33.199 tends to happen is women are doing something and they 1597 01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:35.319 have all their female friends that do all the planning, 1598 01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:38.319 all the preparations. We're not involved in that. We're just 1599 01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:43.800 there to rrge heavy stuff. That's not inclusion. And I 1600 01:31:43.880 --> 01:31:46.520 don't particularly like being part of that because I think 1601 01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:48.560 I've made all the arrangs. Well I can't be part 1602 01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:49.920 of that arrangement. What about my thoughts? 1603 01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:50.279 What am I? 1604 01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:52.920 You know, we're not so we just you cant bring 1605 01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:54.560 the drinks, you can bring the heavy stuff, you can do. 1606 01:31:54.880 --> 01:31:59.920 It's really so that's not including for me. Purpose Yeah, 1607 01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:03.439 purpose again, you know what's my purpose here? Is that 1608 01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:05.720 is that it just to carry the heavy stuff. I 1609 01:32:05.880 --> 01:32:08.840 can't think to give ideas and think like that. So 1610 01:32:08.960 --> 01:32:13.760 that's important inclusion. I think the other thing is talking 1611 01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:19.680 to people and not to pack people. I think the 1612 01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:24.680 perception is I think some for me, I think sometimes 1613 01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:27.560 it's that we're stone, we don't bleed, And it's like 1614 01:32:27.920 --> 01:32:32.079 there's a song that the heritage singer says, no, not heritage, 1615 01:32:32.159 --> 01:32:33.600 just what's his name, can't think of them, it says, 1616 01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:38.840 he says. Someone says sometimes I heard, And that's deep 1617 01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:40.920 for me because I think sometimes we don't think that 1618 01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:43.760 men hurt. We do hurt. We may not show it, 1619 01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:45.680 but it doesn't mean we're not hurt. And I think 1620 01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:48.199 a lot of that stems from the stigma of what 1621 01:32:48.359 --> 01:32:50.920 we're expected to be. We're expected to be someone who 1622 01:32:50.960 --> 01:32:53.600 don't show emotions. We're expected to be this tough person, 1623 01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:56.319 and if we do show emotions, you need to man up. 1624 01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:01.359 So there's a number of challenges that are there, and 1625 01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:06.880 I think it's how we can navigate those, and some 1626 01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:09.319 of us don't have that skill set to navigate that. 1627 01:33:09.479 --> 01:33:12.000 That's the reality of it. Some of us don't. We 1628 01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:14.640 don't know how to deal with that, so we only 1629 01:33:14.720 --> 01:33:16.319 deal with it the way we know how to deal 1630 01:33:16.359 --> 01:33:18.680 with it, which is not necessarily the best way. So 1631 01:33:18.880 --> 01:33:21.880 it's either withdrawal, we don't say anything, going to our 1632 01:33:21.880 --> 01:33:25.439 own space because we don't see value where our value is. 1633 01:33:27.640 --> 01:33:30.840 And I think things like that, just being cousins of 1634 01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:35.279 that factor, I think that's really important. I think, yeah, 1635 01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:38.319 value is really important. But I think on a whole, 1636 01:33:38.520 --> 01:33:41.960 I think in a lot of ways we are worst 1637 01:33:42.039 --> 01:33:48.439 on enemies really because I think that we there's a 1638 01:33:48.600 --> 01:33:54.560 saying you got if you keep crying and crying and 1639 01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:57.199 nothing's wrong when something's actually wrong, no one's going to 1640 01:33:57.199 --> 01:33:59.880 believe you. And I think we've been our worst enemies 1641 01:34:00.079 --> 01:34:03.079 over the years in terms of how we have behaved 1642 01:34:03.399 --> 01:34:06.920 and how we have conducted ourselves. And I think the 1643 01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:10.479 society we're in now that's now been twisted around and 1644 01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:13.359 in a lot of ways held against us. But also 1645 01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:18.239 I think there's an attitude of not wanting to let 1646 01:34:18.319 --> 01:34:21.560 go because women have held onto it and have run 1647 01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:23.319 with it and it's worked, and they don't want to 1648 01:34:23.399 --> 01:34:25.680 let it go because they're fearful that if I give 1649 01:34:25.720 --> 01:34:27.800 it to you, you're not going to continue it. So 1650 01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:30.399 there's that. So there's a number of things, and I 1651 01:34:30.479 --> 01:34:34.720 think there needs to be coming together and understanding that 1652 01:34:37.079 --> 01:34:40.039 God made man and God made women and there's a 1653 01:34:40.199 --> 01:34:44.399 beauty in that separateness that if they can only work 1654 01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:47.079 together and come together, they will see the overall beauty 1655 01:34:47.159 --> 01:34:52.479 that God intended. And I think sometimes guys are trying 1656 01:34:52.520 --> 01:34:55.079 to be are trying to make women to be men, 1657 01:34:55.439 --> 01:34:57.239 and women are trying to make in other words, oh, 1658 01:34:57.319 --> 01:34:58.920 I don't do it that way. Well, you're not a man, 1659 01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:00.760 so you won't do it that way, you know, and 1660 01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.079 vice versa, and things like that. And accepting people for 1661 01:35:04.239 --> 01:35:08.279 who they are, and that means everything how they do things. 1662 01:35:08.399 --> 01:35:11.720 For example, just because for me, different doesn't mean wrong. 1663 01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:15.239 It simply means different. Yeah, because you don't go into 1664 01:35:15.239 --> 01:35:17.000 a restaurant and say, oh, how did you cut the rice? 1665 01:35:17.119 --> 01:35:18.920 So why are you mun about our und cooking the rice? 1666 01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:21.479 You know what I'm saying. Just simple things like that. 1667 01:35:21.680 --> 01:35:25.079 And it's allowing people to do things and not feeling 1668 01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:28.119 that you have to give instructions all the time. No, 1669 01:35:29.560 --> 01:35:32.800 make him do something, leave him. So I think there's 1670 01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:34.960 a number of things, but on a whole, I think 1671 01:35:35.600 --> 01:35:37.600 it's like I see, it's not different what women wants. 1672 01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:39.920 They want to be valued, they want to be respected, 1673 01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:42.199 they want to be acknowledged, they want to feel part 1674 01:35:42.279 --> 01:35:45.439 of We're not different. We're not different. We may go 1675 01:35:45.560 --> 01:35:46.880 back in a different way and you may have the 1676 01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:49.279 perception that we don't, but it's not that. It's because 1677 01:35:49.279 --> 01:35:54.399 we feel we have to have this hard exterior because 1678 01:35:54.399 --> 01:35:57.960 if we're not protecting ourselves, we're going to be roller coasted. 1679 01:35:58.600 --> 01:36:01.560 So yeah, I think there's I think there's just a 1680 01:36:01.640 --> 01:36:05.680 lot of communication and understanding that needs to take place. 1681 01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:08.079 I mean, I still haven't got it right, and but 1682 01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:12.039 I can see the beauty in what God is trying 1683 01:36:12.039 --> 01:36:14.239 to do, but I can't. I struggle to put that 1684 01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:16.920 into practice. How do I how what does that look 1685 01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:18.279 like in the day to day base? How do I 1686 01:36:18.359 --> 01:36:18.720 relate that? 1687 01:36:19.239 --> 01:36:19.399 You know? 1688 01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:21.560 Sometimes you can say okay, I can see how you 1689 01:36:21.600 --> 01:36:23.760 can fly that plane, but then put me in a copy. 1690 01:36:23.920 --> 01:36:25.760 It's a different ballgame, you know what I mean. So 1691 01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:28.520 it's about how do you make that a reality? What 1692 01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:30.520 does that look like? You know? It's like you say 1693 01:36:30.560 --> 01:36:34.199 to people, how are you doing? Oh I'm okay, and 1694 01:36:34.239 --> 01:36:36.199 I'm almos saying peoplehen they said, okay, so what does 1695 01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:39.079 okay look like? Because okay, I'm mean nothing to me. 1696 01:36:39.159 --> 01:36:41.279 What does that mean? You know? So I said, okay, 1697 01:36:41.319 --> 01:36:43.640 so what does okay look like? And just that simple 1698 01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:46.960 question opens up because what people say to you is 1699 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:50.640 that I'm interested because I can say, oh, hey, happy 1700 01:36:50.640 --> 01:36:52.239 to sab how are you doing? I don't really want it. 1701 01:36:52.319 --> 01:36:55.279 I'm just saying happy Sabbath, you know what I'm saying. 1702 01:36:55.319 --> 01:36:57.520 But when I say, oh, so what does okay look like? 1703 01:36:57.920 --> 01:37:01.159 They're like, oh, okay, and start thought okay. And then 1704 01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:02.920 when you see him next time, he said, oh, you know, 1705 01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:04.239 we had a chat to have that I was praying 1706 01:37:04.239 --> 01:37:07.319 for you about that and they're like really, and it 1707 01:37:07.399 --> 01:37:13.520 stills little windows that cracks that opens up wider and 1708 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:16.760 it may take time, but you have to be patient. 1709 01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:18.159 And that's why it's used to the word the intention. 1710 01:37:18.319 --> 01:37:21.039 You have to be intentional because for some people, some 1711 01:37:21.159 --> 01:37:23.560 people get on board straight away, some people standing in 1712 01:37:23.560 --> 01:37:25.279 the back Grandchester to see how things are going before 1713 01:37:25.319 --> 01:37:28.079 they get on board. And some people well know, will 1714 01:37:28.119 --> 01:37:31.399 not get on board. But it's how you persuade people 1715 01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:33.720 and how you bring people on it's important. That's the 1716 01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:37.800 I think that's the key. More different, It's like a 1717 01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:41.560 captain of a cricket team. Everybody is different and he's 1718 01:37:41.600 --> 01:37:43.000 got to know how to get the best art teedation 1719 01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:45.199 in one of them. One way works with one person, 1720 01:37:45.239 --> 01:37:47.880 but men at work with another person. You know, I 1721 01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:49.640 can say to one person, come on, man, store it 1722 01:37:49.720 --> 01:37:51.560 out and that's all he needs. Another person, I mean, 1723 01:37:51.680 --> 01:37:55.159 but my mom's around this, and man what that means. Yeah, 1724 01:37:55.399 --> 01:37:57.840 So it's understanding. It's like management. You have to know 1725 01:37:59.039 --> 01:38:01.279 your audience, who you dealing with, and not what it 1726 01:38:01.439 --> 01:38:04.159 needs to motivate each individual person to get the overall 1727 01:38:04.279 --> 01:38:08.640 beauty of it. And that's that's that's a not an 1728 01:38:08.680 --> 01:38:09.359 easy thing to do. 1729 01:38:10.880 --> 01:38:12.840 Because again with that as well, it's also I think 1730 01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:16.119 and then how we have to maybe adapt and change 1731 01:38:16.159 --> 01:38:17.600 in yeah, because it's. 1732 01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:19.279 Not about just them, it's about you as well and 1733 01:38:19.359 --> 01:38:21.520 how you received it and are you hearing what they're 1734 01:38:21.560 --> 01:38:24.760 saying or are you hearing something else? And sometimes we 1735 01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:27.439 have to be honest enough and say I hear you, 1736 01:38:28.159 --> 01:38:30.600 but I don't know how to but I will find 1737 01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:32.880 out or I know on that and not feel that 1738 01:38:33.000 --> 01:38:35.800 you have to answer everything and if you don't have 1739 01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:39.840 an answer, that you're not valued. Yeah, you know, I 1740 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:42.039 think it's brave when you can say I don't know, 1741 01:38:44.039 --> 01:38:48.119 but I'm happy to find out and get back to you. Yeah, 1742 01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:52.640 And I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's. 1743 01:38:52.600 --> 01:38:53.439 App on to that, Devin. 1744 01:38:54.479 --> 01:38:56.479 Really, I mean, nass. 1745 01:38:57.960 --> 01:38:58.479 Very well. 1746 01:39:01.119 --> 01:39:02.159 Well, said Leslie. 1747 01:39:05.039 --> 01:39:05.600 You can say. 1748 01:39:07.119 --> 01:39:10.439 That's cool, that's cool. So I guess, I mean it's 1749 01:39:10.479 --> 01:39:12.199 been really interested to hear some of the things that 1750 01:39:12.279 --> 01:39:14.720 you've been doing. And I guess, you know, looking at 1751 01:39:14.720 --> 01:39:16.239 the different you know, what you can do on a 1752 01:39:16.319 --> 01:39:19.920 local level and how that the next fands to you know, 1753 01:39:20.279 --> 01:39:22.520 the conference wide and what haveing the bigger events and 1754 01:39:22.560 --> 01:39:25.520 what have you. So for seven, you mentioned that you know, 1755 01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:28.920 for some churches they have they've got thriving men's ministries. 1756 01:39:28.920 --> 01:39:31.800 I'm sure they do for some churches and maybe not. 1757 01:39:32.079 --> 01:39:33.880 I mean that could also be indicative of the fact 1758 01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:37.840 that the ratio of men in church in our church 1759 01:39:38.359 --> 01:39:40.960 is much lower than say the more there are more women. 1760 01:39:42.439 --> 01:39:44.479 But again it's not just about you know, meeting needs 1761 01:39:44.520 --> 01:39:46.560 with the men in your church, source in the communities 1762 01:39:46.560 --> 01:39:49.880 as well. But what message would you give to churches 1763 01:39:50.520 --> 01:39:54.840 who have not necessarily got a men's ministry team? And 1764 01:39:54.960 --> 01:39:57.119 you kind of said something a little bit about that earlier, 1765 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:00.239 just to try and do something. But I I guess 1766 01:40:00.239 --> 01:40:02.159 if you're just sort of say, right, okay, I want 1767 01:40:02.239 --> 01:40:06.159 to kind of id say sell but promote the idea 1768 01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:10.159 of putting amend's ministries team together or doing activities, what 1769 01:40:10.239 --> 01:40:12.159 would be your key things that you would be saying 1770 01:40:12.199 --> 01:40:13.840 to say, you know what, there's something you should do, 1771 01:40:14.720 --> 01:40:17.720 get on board, you know, try and push it. And 1772 01:40:18.479 --> 01:40:22.640 you know, if there isn't one, why isn't there one, 1773 01:40:23.439 --> 01:40:25.119 make it happen kind of things. So what would you 1774 01:40:25.319 --> 01:40:28.039 what would be your kind of message to those churches. 1775 01:40:29.199 --> 01:40:31.399 Before definitely, sorry, let me just quickly say bit for difference. 1776 01:40:31.399 --> 01:40:32.720 I think for me, one of the things I've been 1777 01:40:32.720 --> 01:40:35.039 looking at doing, especially those small churches don't have one. 1778 01:40:35.359 --> 01:40:38.119 I won't be saying, oh good idea to do this. 1779 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:41.640 What I would think would be more powerful is if 1780 01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:44.680 we spoke to the pastor ask the past if we 1781 01:40:44.720 --> 01:40:47.039 can have a program for just men, and we do 1782 01:40:47.159 --> 01:40:49.680 a men's program in their men's minis in their church. 1783 01:40:50.840 --> 01:40:55.479 And I think because we men are visual creatures, Yeah, 1784 01:40:56.199 --> 01:40:58.680 and when they actually see something, they get more out 1785 01:40:58.760 --> 01:41:01.560 of reading or hear. You're in the visuals. So I 1786 01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:04.640 think putting a program on in them will encourage that, 1787 01:41:05.199 --> 01:41:06.800 and then you can encourage them to come on the 1788 01:41:06.880 --> 01:41:10.279 platforms that we have and then trying to support them. 1789 01:41:10.439 --> 01:41:12.640 I think that would be go a long way in 1790 01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:15.880 terms of the visuality of it. And see how the 1791 01:41:16.079 --> 01:41:18.920 church takes it when you deliver a program there, right, 1792 01:41:19.800 --> 01:41:20.079 you know, I. 1793 01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:23.800 Was going to say that's these right, I was also 1794 01:41:23.840 --> 01:41:28.800 going to say that there's one there's another reason why 1795 01:41:28.840 --> 01:41:32.399 there's a lack of men's ministry. It depends on the culture. 1796 01:41:33.319 --> 01:41:36.960 Because some churches, right, if they you know, they will say, oh, 1797 01:41:37.039 --> 01:41:39.880 we're okay, we don't need it because of their culture. 1798 01:41:40.159 --> 01:41:44.319 They think that, you know, because they're all right, you know, 1799 01:41:44.399 --> 01:41:47.000 they don't need to have men's ministry because the men 1800 01:41:47.199 --> 01:41:51.119 are okay. But then we should be asking the men 1801 01:41:51.560 --> 01:41:53.840 are they okay? You know what I mean, no matter 1802 01:41:53.880 --> 01:41:55.840 what culture are in, no matter what language you're in, 1803 01:41:55.960 --> 01:41:59.760 no matter you know what race you're from. But sometimes 1804 01:41:59.800 --> 01:42:01.399 some it it's just to say to me, we're okay. 1805 01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:06.279 And also I don't mean to say this in there, 1806 01:42:06.319 --> 01:42:10.359 but yeah, let's be real. Even some pastors don't want 1807 01:42:10.439 --> 01:42:15.000 to have the men's ministry in their churches and they 1808 01:42:15.039 --> 01:42:17.880 don't see to see that as important, you know what 1809 01:42:17.960 --> 01:42:21.079 I mean, And the men need it, you know what 1810 01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:23.840 I mean. So, as Leslie said, you know, we put 1811 01:42:23.920 --> 01:42:28.800 programs on for men to be interested in the men's ministry, 1812 01:42:29.239 --> 01:42:32.399 but I try not to force it. You don't want 1813 01:42:32.439 --> 01:42:36.800 to force them. So instead I put in, like what 1814 01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:40.279 I just said before. You know, especially when you start 1815 01:42:40.319 --> 01:42:43.000 from ministry, the first figion to ask the men what 1816 01:42:43.159 --> 01:42:46.119 they want to see, you know, what they want to 1817 01:42:46.119 --> 01:42:48.880 see in this ministry, because sometimes we put ideas and 1818 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:51.239 they don't want that kind of idea. And then when 1819 01:42:51.319 --> 01:42:53.279 I say to them, okay, when you do that kind 1820 01:42:53.279 --> 01:42:55.880 of thing, but you know, ask them what they want 1821 01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:58.600 to see or what they want happening in the ministry. 1822 01:42:58.960 --> 01:43:01.800 I always say to them, right, say someone said they 1823 01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:03.640 want to do a football match or something like that. 1824 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:08.840 Then I say, well, that person take ownership of organizing 1825 01:43:08.920 --> 01:43:10.960 that sort of thing, you know what I mean. And 1826 01:43:11.199 --> 01:43:14.720 and everybody has helped them, you know. They I like 1827 01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:18.960 the especially young men, take ownership of what they're doing, 1828 01:43:19.039 --> 01:43:22.039 so they feel like they are involved in it, do 1829 01:43:22.079 --> 01:43:24.600 you know what I mean? Because sometimes I know men's ministry, 1830 01:43:24.680 --> 01:43:26.600 men's leaders do a come up, but sometimes we need 1831 01:43:26.640 --> 01:43:30.479 to pass it on so that one day, when you're gone, 1832 01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:31.880 they can take over. 1833 01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:34.840 That's the inclusion and the purpose and. 1834 01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:38.119 That's right, so the one that they will take over, 1835 01:43:38.720 --> 01:43:40.720 you know what I mean. So if we include our 1836 01:43:40.880 --> 01:43:46.720 young folks, other men into taking ownership, and the and 1837 01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:48.760 the you know, the wives, they need to support the 1838 01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:50.359 men when it comes to these sort of things as well. 1839 01:43:50.399 --> 01:43:52.840 They need to say you know what you go ahead, 1840 01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:58.760 go go you know helps you know I say some 1841 01:43:59.159 --> 01:44:01.840 sometimes I say it's like you need to encourage me 1842 01:44:01.880 --> 01:44:04.319 a bit more. Do you know what I mean. You know, 1843 01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:07.600 if the ladies encourage the men a bit more, they 1844 01:44:07.680 --> 01:44:10.880 will feel But sometimes encouragement goes a long way. That's why. 1845 01:44:11.479 --> 01:44:14.479 That's why I like what's his name, Donald Lawrence when 1846 01:44:14.520 --> 01:44:19.319 they did that song Encourage yourself, right. Men need encouragement 1847 01:44:19.439 --> 01:44:22.840 to go a certain direction if they've got a goal. 1848 01:44:23.439 --> 01:44:26.760 You you know, like I've been studying something and I'm 1849 01:44:26.800 --> 01:44:30.359 graduating soon. I get the encouragement from my wife, keep going, 1850 01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:33.920 keep going, you know what I mean. I get encouragement 1851 01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:36.199 from my close friends, keep going, because sometimes you want 1852 01:44:36.199 --> 01:44:38.319 to give up. But when you get that encouragement to 1853 01:44:38.439 --> 01:44:41.399 just keep going, it takes. It takes you a long way, 1854 01:44:42.279 --> 01:44:45.560 you know me, because even though we pray, pray, sometimes 1855 01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:48.560 it's not enough. I'm not saying pray, don't change thing 1856 01:44:48.680 --> 01:44:51.520 or answer, but sometimes you need a physical on earth 1857 01:44:51.600 --> 01:44:53.920 to say, you know, you still got a long way 1858 01:44:53.920 --> 01:44:56.319 to go to the on that yellow brick road, keep 1859 01:44:56.399 --> 01:45:00.960 going you That's where they inclusion it comes in. You 1860 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:02.920 know what I mean that we encourage each other to 1861 01:45:03.119 --> 01:45:06.840 keep going, you know, with these programs, keep going. You know, 1862 01:45:07.000 --> 01:45:09.680 That's why I said to you earlier. Sometimes I just 1863 01:45:09.880 --> 01:45:12.159 I will say is it worth doing Real menor Real Talk. 1864 01:45:12.199 --> 01:45:13.920 But when you get the encouragement to say, you know, 1865 01:45:14.079 --> 01:45:16.479 when someone says write a text to you and say 1866 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:20.720 you know what you're doing is really great, that's the 1867 01:45:20.880 --> 01:45:27.199 encouragement you need to keep going, you know. That's why 1868 01:45:27.239 --> 01:45:29.159 it keeps going for I don't know, is it four years? 1869 01:45:30.279 --> 01:45:32.760 How many programs we put on on Real Memorial Talk? 1870 01:45:33.279 --> 01:45:34.560 What what's the details? 1871 01:45:34.640 --> 01:45:35.760 Can I just interject him? 1872 01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:43.439 I can't remember. I can't remember. Let me get back 1873 01:45:43.439 --> 01:45:44.079 to you on that one. 1874 01:45:46.600 --> 01:45:48.399 Say what have you got coming up? And actually how 1875 01:45:48.439 --> 01:45:51.840 can people find out about this program? These programs that 1876 01:45:51.880 --> 01:45:53.880 your Day Talk. 1877 01:45:54.439 --> 01:46:00.199 Real Memorial Talk comes on every other Monday, and it's 1878 01:46:00.239 --> 01:46:03.800 on Zoom and it starts at seven thirty to nine thirty. 1879 01:46:04.479 --> 01:46:08.840 And usually we send out posters every month and you 1880 01:46:08.920 --> 01:46:14.000 get it either on the SEC website newsletter or we 1881 01:46:14.159 --> 01:46:16.159 have a mail shop and I send it out to 1882 01:46:16.239 --> 01:46:22.039 all the Men's Ministry churches or groups, and also on 1883 01:46:22.119 --> 01:46:28.000 the SEC WhatsApp channel, I have Instagram, you know. And 1884 01:46:28.399 --> 01:46:31.399 another thing we're doing which I didn't mention, but I 1885 01:46:31.439 --> 01:46:35.199 will mention Leslie knows, And we're trying to organize a 1886 01:46:35.239 --> 01:46:38.520 podcast as well for men, And the reason why we're 1887 01:46:38.520 --> 01:46:42.000 trying to organize a podcast for men. I feel sometimes 1888 01:46:42.399 --> 01:46:46.760 that there is not enough programs for men to have 1889 01:46:46.920 --> 01:46:49.760 conversations or anything, because you know, like like Loose Women, 1890 01:46:49.840 --> 01:46:52.680 you have every day Loose Women is on and they 1891 01:46:52.720 --> 01:46:55.840 talk about anything, and I'm not saying that, And then 1892 01:46:55.880 --> 01:46:58.760 when it's the program for men, like you know, it's 1893 01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:03.119 something important like don't know, you know that beard thing 1894 01:47:03.159 --> 01:47:07.840 they do November, you know, you have that once for 1895 01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:11.079 the whole year, or it's Father's Day. That's the only 1896 01:47:11.279 --> 01:47:14.600 time they have a program. And I think, no, you know, 1897 01:47:14.960 --> 01:47:18.199 mental health, you know all the prostate cancer, or or 1898 01:47:18.239 --> 01:47:21.800 there's men who wrote books or or or there's an event. 1899 01:47:21.920 --> 01:47:24.720 We should have that kind of program more often for 1900 01:47:24.960 --> 01:47:26.119 men to have a conversation. 1901 01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:27.479 Do you get me? 1902 01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:30.720 And that's why I want to do a real memorial 1903 01:47:30.840 --> 01:47:34.800 talk It's on its way podcast, Okay, so that will 1904 01:47:34.840 --> 01:47:37.960 be another thing on top of the real memoral Talk 1905 01:47:38.079 --> 01:47:39.840 Zoom meetings. We will be doing that as well. 1906 01:47:40.039 --> 01:47:44.039 Okay, so you can find that on So you didn't 1907 01:47:44.079 --> 01:47:45.319 got Instagram? What's your Instagram? 1908 01:47:45.359 --> 01:47:45.680 Actually? 1909 01:47:45.720 --> 01:47:47.359 Then well the miscribes mine own. 1910 01:47:47.479 --> 01:47:52.079 So yeah, but we will be organized a real manoral 1911 01:47:52.159 --> 01:47:55.399 Talk Instagram, and we want to do a Roman Talk 1912 01:47:55.520 --> 01:47:58.520 channel so that we could put information on there. 1913 01:47:59.439 --> 01:48:01.920 Any event so I go to or we go to, 1914 01:48:02.039 --> 01:48:04.880 we can record it put it on there so that 1915 01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:06.880 men can see. Because I wan't meant to be interested 1916 01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:10.079 in these events, but whenever the events come on, and 1917 01:48:10.159 --> 01:48:14.840 not only with SEC but all events of the of 1918 01:48:15.039 --> 01:48:18.279 churches that we advertise or whatever, and for men to 1919 01:48:18.399 --> 01:48:22.239 come and hopefully be interested in. 1920 01:48:23.039 --> 01:48:24.960 Okay, and you just you send me to post that 1921 01:48:25.239 --> 01:48:26.079 you've got one coming up. 1922 01:48:26.239 --> 01:48:29.800 Next to a men's conference coming up, Yeah, next in 1923 01:48:30.000 --> 01:48:34.119 March March, I think it's the fourteenth to the sixteenth, right, Nestley. 1924 01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:36.680 March fourteenth to the sixty is going to be at 1925 01:48:36.680 --> 01:48:42.279 the Denham Grove Hotel which is in Uxbridge, and it's 1926 01:48:42.479 --> 01:48:48.920 called the theme is stop, Look, Listen, but let's talk, 1927 01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:56.359 And basically it's about men's issues, what we're going through, 1928 01:48:57.159 --> 01:49:00.079 you know what I mean. We need to stop so 1929 01:49:00.159 --> 01:49:03.159 we can talk about it. Maybe we could look and see, 1930 01:49:03.199 --> 01:49:07.159 because sometimes we look but we don't really see what 1931 01:49:07.760 --> 01:49:10.359 men is going. We're just going past them, you know 1932 01:49:10.399 --> 01:49:14.199 what I mean. And listen listening, not talk, but listen 1933 01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:17.439 sometimes listening as I said, science is God. We just 1934 01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:18.199 listened to them. 1935 01:49:18.760 --> 01:49:18.920 You know. 1936 01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:22.159 I remember one time when I was going, I was 1937 01:49:22.319 --> 01:49:24.359 really down. I wasn't in meense miinster, I was really 1938 01:49:24.479 --> 01:49:27.960 down in church, and I go to church and I 1939 01:49:28.079 --> 01:49:30.439 want to tell one of the elders something and the 1940 01:49:30.640 --> 01:49:33.720 best the line that I did not want to hear, 1941 01:49:33.760 --> 01:49:36.880 which we always say, I know it's changing now, but 1942 01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:41.199 we always say, because Leslie mentioned it, let's just pray 1943 01:49:41.239 --> 01:49:44.239 about it. Just pray about it. And they left me, 1944 01:49:46.760 --> 01:49:49.000 you know what I mean. So the listening part didn't 1945 01:49:49.000 --> 01:49:52.000 even happen. You know, I wanted to someone to because 1946 01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:55.039 you know what, I believe, if we could tell our story, 1947 01:49:57.199 --> 01:50:01.119 it will help someone else with their story and their journey. 1948 01:50:02.159 --> 01:50:05.279 We need. Our story is important to tell. But and 1949 01:50:05.760 --> 01:50:09.640 we're going through stuff. We want someone to listen, to 1950 01:50:09.760 --> 01:50:12.520 give us a hard or you know what I mean, 1951 01:50:14.039 --> 01:50:16.399 or just just don't say, just listen so we can 1952 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:20.680 lift that burden out of us because we carry a 1953 01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:22.840 lot of burdens. Men carry a lot of burdens now, 1954 01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:25.680 but no one is listening. No, they we're too frightened 1955 01:50:25.720 --> 01:50:29.000 to say everything with our burdens. And so that's when 1956 01:50:29.159 --> 01:50:31.239 men's health come in where we get sick because we're 1957 01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:36.000 carrying all this burden and you know, we're like, you know, 1958 01:50:36.039 --> 01:50:40.560 I remember my son used to say to me, my son, 1959 01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:42.319 when I was driving my car. My son said to me, 1960 01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:47.000 you know, there's noise in your front wheel. And I 1961 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:47.960 won't even listen. 1962 01:50:47.800 --> 01:50:49.279 To but I was just like, we are you talking about? 1963 01:50:49.319 --> 01:50:52.159 You know, what are you talking about? Wilson, don't worry. 1964 01:50:52.399 --> 01:50:54.239 And then I drive out. The cord came up again. 1965 01:50:54.279 --> 01:50:56.880 He goes, there's noise in the front wheel, Dad, And 1966 01:50:56.920 --> 01:51:00.039 I said no, no, no, that's not there's no and 1967 01:51:00.079 --> 01:51:02.880 then he said, I will record it. So he recorded 1968 01:51:02.920 --> 01:51:05.800 it and I played it and it was noise in 1969 01:51:05.840 --> 01:51:09.159 the front wheel. This was for months, and I took 1970 01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:12.960 it to the garage and they after they investigated, they said, 1971 01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:15.359 you need a new breaks, you need a dispath and 1972 01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:18.159 all that. It costs the whole four wheels of my cut. 1973 01:51:18.399 --> 01:51:20.439 It cost me a bomb. He said, if you listen 1974 01:51:20.479 --> 01:51:22.880 to your son in the first place, your solve that 1975 01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:27.079 problem already. That's what men should do. Right. If you 1976 01:51:27.279 --> 01:51:30.920 have a problem, talk to someone now, don't wait twenty 1977 01:51:31.039 --> 01:51:34.880 years later and then it gets worse, and then you 1978 01:51:35.359 --> 01:51:38.439 then you're blame whoever. No, you're the one to blame 1979 01:51:38.479 --> 01:51:40.760 because you didn't do the you didn't act in the 1980 01:51:40.800 --> 01:51:44.680 first place. That's what that's so that's what I'm saying. 1981 01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:49.560 So so so this this this program is forgetting men 1982 01:51:49.640 --> 01:51:53.520 to to just just act on what you you know, 1983 01:51:53.720 --> 01:51:56.479 whatever it is, you will act on it now before 1984 01:51:56.520 --> 01:51:57.199 it gets worse. 1985 01:51:58.680 --> 01:52:02.600 Oh I love that, And I can say, you know, 1986 01:52:02.800 --> 01:52:05.800 it's really it's quite inspiring hearing you your passion for this. 1987 01:52:07.319 --> 01:52:10.000 This is great, This is great. And you know, Zeby 1988 01:52:10.079 --> 01:52:12.319 and I are often having these conversations saying, you know, 1989 01:52:12.800 --> 01:52:15.479 men don't talk enough. Men should do this. You know, 1990 01:52:15.880 --> 01:52:19.199 we'd like to see that, and it's really really encouraging, 1991 01:52:19.279 --> 01:52:20.359 really positive to see. 1992 01:52:20.880 --> 01:52:24.279 You know that we can't have them all. 1993 01:52:29.199 --> 01:52:31.279 Listen real quick, I'm sorry, do you know she just 1994 01:52:31.439 --> 01:52:34.640 excluded me. Three of us had that conversation. 1995 01:52:35.840 --> 01:52:39.279 I was saying, from our perspective, our perspective, because the 1996 01:52:39.319 --> 01:52:41.039 thing is, the thing is, we've also had this debate 1997 01:52:41.159 --> 01:52:43.680 that actually, would men come together and do this sort 1998 01:52:43.720 --> 01:52:45.960 of thing, And that's often been the thing. 1999 01:52:45.920 --> 01:52:49.159 That we would We've had those conversations. But you just 2000 01:52:49.239 --> 01:52:51.840 said that you and Zenya have those conversations, but all 2001 01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:53.159 three of us have that conversation. 2002 01:52:54.079 --> 01:52:57.960 I was referring to the perspective of it, because at 2003 01:52:57.960 --> 01:53:00.840 the end of the day, there are some views they're 2004 01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:02.640 not going to come together, they don't do this type 2005 01:53:02.680 --> 01:53:06.079 of thing, But actually they can do that sort of thing, 2006 01:53:06.159 --> 01:53:08.520 and they do and this is what's happening. So it's 2007 01:53:08.800 --> 01:53:11.079 really encouraging to see that. 2008 01:53:14.359 --> 01:53:18.119 I think men have a choice to go to these events, right, 2009 01:53:19.800 --> 01:53:24.680 But I'm myself lessing and Basil. We're trying to encourage 2010 01:53:24.680 --> 01:53:28.880 them to come. You know what, what is it that 2011 01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:31.600 they could come? So instead of saying about the workshop's own, 2012 01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:34.439 I always say things like, there's food, because men love food. 2013 01:53:35.279 --> 01:53:37.520 We have to make sure that the food is right. 2014 01:53:38.279 --> 01:53:39.960 But when I went, I tested the food. The food 2015 01:53:40.039 --> 01:53:42.159 is called. And then there's a gym. They can go 2016 01:53:42.239 --> 01:53:44.800 to the gym, you get me. So these are some 2017 01:53:44.840 --> 01:53:46.479 of the things that men would love to come, even 2018 01:53:46.520 --> 01:53:48.239 if they just come for the gym. And at least 2019 01:53:48.279 --> 01:53:49.960 if they come for the gym and they come for 2020 01:53:50.039 --> 01:53:52.119 the food, they don't come to the workshop. I thank 2021 01:53:52.199 --> 01:53:52.720 god they came. 2022 01:53:54.800 --> 01:53:56.640 They're about to talk to somebody and have some kind 2023 01:53:56.680 --> 01:53:57.199 of conversation. 2024 01:53:57.439 --> 01:53:59.880 They will have a conversation. They will have got this, 2025 01:54:00.279 --> 01:54:01.079 but at least they came. 2026 01:54:01.600 --> 01:54:03.680 I think a lot of it is stems from you're 2027 01:54:03.720 --> 01:54:07.079 completely away from your own environment. That's right, okay, and 2028 01:54:07.279 --> 01:54:11.520 people feel more free to talk then. And I think 2029 01:54:13.399 --> 01:54:15.399 when you have that kind of a forum is a 2030 01:54:15.520 --> 01:54:18.079 powerful thing. When you see all men together, especially when 2031 01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:21.800 you see them singing together, it's just powerful, it really is. 2032 01:54:21.880 --> 01:54:25.640 And I think what people are missing when they see that, 2033 01:54:25.760 --> 01:54:27.760 they're like, whoa, the light bulb comes on and they're 2034 01:54:27.800 --> 01:54:29.840 kind of like that. But it is to get that 2035 01:54:30.000 --> 01:54:33.520 to continue once they've left. It's the challenge. But you 2036 01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:38.239 know what, it's like anything. If you don't start, you 2037 01:54:38.359 --> 01:54:39.439 never know what you can achieve. 2038 01:54:40.199 --> 01:54:41.159 You've got to do something. 2039 01:54:41.680 --> 01:54:46.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's only one person. Forget about numbers. 2040 01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:50.720 I used to be number person, and I remember, you know, 2041 01:54:51.079 --> 01:54:53.560 Chris Leavey once said to me that at the end 2042 01:54:53.640 --> 01:54:57.039 of the day, it's not about numbers, because you can 2043 01:54:57.079 --> 01:55:00.319 have five hundred people but they're not committed, and you 2044 01:55:00.399 --> 01:55:04.119 can have two people and they're committed. So don't look 2045 01:55:04.159 --> 01:55:09.840 at number because people will watch in the background to 2046 01:55:09.880 --> 01:55:12.680 see how things are going. If they feel it's going well, 2047 01:55:12.800 --> 01:55:17.319 they'll start coming on board. So forget numbers. Just do something, 2048 01:55:17.520 --> 01:55:19.439 because a lot of times people just want to see 2049 01:55:19.479 --> 01:55:22.880 something being done. They see that, they're like, you know, 2050 01:55:23.079 --> 01:55:25.319 it's like they didn't have they probably didn't know how 2051 01:55:25.399 --> 01:55:27.560 to do it, or they probably didn't weren't brave enough, 2052 01:55:27.640 --> 01:55:31.239 but they actually see something. It's like Nicodemus. Nicodemus went 2053 01:55:31.239 --> 01:55:32.960 to Jesus at night because they didn't want to be seen. 2054 01:55:33.560 --> 01:55:35.840 And it's a similar kind of thing. You know, it's like, oh, 2055 01:55:35.920 --> 01:55:37.840 I can't do that, But when they see someone else 2056 01:55:37.920 --> 01:55:41.000 do it, then they start okay, they start supporting it, 2057 01:55:41.079 --> 01:55:44.000 and before you know it, you know, it increases. But 2058 01:55:44.119 --> 01:55:47.960 but yeah, it's just about doing you know. You know, 2059 01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:50.399 there's a saying if you don't start, you can never finish. 2060 01:55:51.760 --> 01:55:53.560 And just to add to that in terms of your 2061 01:55:53.640 --> 01:55:58.439 numbers scenario, it really is if you've just helped one 2062 01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:04.840 So even when you talk about the podcast or the 2063 01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:07.760 conversations that you have on a weekly basis or bi 2064 01:56:07.840 --> 01:56:10.279 weekly basis, if it's just one person that logs in 2065 01:56:11.000 --> 01:56:14.239 and it makes a difference to that one person, you've 2066 01:56:14.279 --> 01:56:18.199 pulled them from the precipice or whatever it is. You know, 2067 01:56:18.279 --> 01:56:20.880 you've given them sound advice that they can utilize or 2068 01:56:20.920 --> 01:56:23.600 whatever it is. If it's just that one person, then 2069 01:56:23.680 --> 01:56:28.880 it's a conversation worth having. You know, we look at 2070 01:56:28.960 --> 01:56:31.439 numbers and think it has to be numbers for it 2071 01:56:31.520 --> 01:56:35.039 to be successful. But no, and then that one person 2072 01:56:36.039 --> 01:56:39.920 could reach millions. You just don't know. So yeah, don't 2073 01:56:39.960 --> 01:56:43.399 be discouraged. It would be my message to you and 2074 01:56:43.840 --> 01:56:46.479 to you Leslie. You know you're doing wonderful work and 2075 01:56:47.640 --> 01:56:50.159 you know it's not a numbers game. It's about the commitment. 2076 01:56:50.279 --> 01:56:53.600 It's about the authenticity. It's about making a difference, and 2077 01:56:53.720 --> 01:56:54.560 you're certainly doing that. 2078 01:56:56.119 --> 01:56:59.239 Raise God, Praise God, Thank you, Thank you. 2079 01:57:00.760 --> 01:57:05.760 With that, our time is fast spent. Can you imagine 2080 01:57:06.159 --> 01:57:07.800 it's always a way because I think we could probably 2081 01:57:07.800 --> 01:57:11.439 be talking for another good half of at least going on. 2082 01:57:11.680 --> 01:57:13.720 But that always means that there is always going to 2083 01:57:13.720 --> 01:57:19.640 be a part two, but always so you know, I 2084 01:57:19.760 --> 01:57:22.359 want to thank you both Devon and Leslie for coming 2085 01:57:22.399 --> 01:57:25.399 on the show to this week to start to find 2086 01:57:25.479 --> 01:57:28.720 Men's Month. It's really encouraging to hear what's happening within 2087 01:57:28.760 --> 01:57:32.000 our churches and what men's ministry is doing across the 2088 01:57:32.079 --> 01:57:35.600 conference and we want to encourage there's been who may 2089 01:57:35.640 --> 01:57:39.199 be listening to get involved. It's on a really big scale, 2090 01:57:39.600 --> 01:57:41.720 as in going to the events and activities or doing 2091 01:57:41.800 --> 01:57:45.039 something within your local church, your local community. Make those 2092 01:57:45.079 --> 01:57:49.479 connections with those relationships and do something to support each other. 2093 01:57:50.239 --> 01:57:52.880 Never know the difference he will make. So if you 2094 01:57:53.520 --> 01:57:57.479 want to get involved. Obviously there's a Real Talk, Real Men, 2095 01:57:57.560 --> 01:58:00.159 Real Talk coming up on the fourth of November up 2096 01:58:00.880 --> 01:58:03.159 so do look out for those posters there and their 2097 01:58:03.199 --> 01:58:07.359 Men's Conference is happening fourteenth to the sixteenth of March 2098 01:58:07.840 --> 01:58:10.760 twenty twenty five, and again information can be found on 2099 01:58:10.920 --> 01:58:13.720 the Sapping the Conference website and we'll post some bits 2100 01:58:13.760 --> 01:58:16.359 as well on our site on our look socials as well. 2101 01:58:17.199 --> 01:58:19.920 So I want to thank you both again for coming 2102 01:58:20.000 --> 01:58:22.960 on and sharing what you've been doing. Throughout the rest 2103 01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:26.119 of this month, we'll be talking I suppose Let's Talk 2104 01:58:26.640 --> 01:58:29.800 will do that Real Talk, Real Men, Real Talk, CALO 2105 01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:32.520 type programs as well. We're going to be looking at 2106 01:58:32.720 --> 01:58:37.119 obviously November we talk about the national campaign as you've 2107 01:58:37.159 --> 01:58:41.000 mentioned about focusing on health, physical and mental health, so 2108 01:58:41.079 --> 01:58:43.119 we'll be looking at that throughout the month as well, 2109 01:58:44.319 --> 01:58:46.239 and we're looking at some men who will make other 2110 01:58:46.439 --> 01:58:48.640 men's stories and hearing back the things that they're doing 2111 01:58:49.000 --> 01:58:51.920 in their communities as well. So do you stay tuned 2112 01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:55.800 in to talking points and advantage Readio London. And as 2113 01:58:56.159 --> 01:58:57.840 I've said at the beginning, if you want to get 2114 01:58:57.920 --> 01:59:02.840 involved and we would love to hear your stories all 2115 01:59:02.880 --> 01:59:05.800 the things that you are doing in your churches as well. 2116 01:59:06.079 --> 01:59:08.159 Please to get in contact with us, you can email 2117 01:59:08.199 --> 01:59:12.000 us on studio at Adventist Radio dot London. You can 2118 01:59:12.079 --> 01:59:15.520 text us on eight triple two eight write hope, leave 2119 01:59:15.520 --> 01:59:17.880 a space and then your message. But we can send 2120 01:59:17.920 --> 01:59:21.119 a what's that message on zero seven four five nine 2121 01:59:21.600 --> 01:59:24.760 six four two eight nine eight. Do get in contact. 2122 01:59:24.840 --> 01:59:28.039 We'd love to hear from you, and yes, please join 2123 01:59:28.119 --> 01:59:31.039 us again. Thank you for listening. I hope you've been 2124 01:59:31.079 --> 01:59:36.079 blessed just like we have been heed Joe, would you 2125 01:59:36.159 --> 01:59:37.479 like to pray to close for us? 2126 01:59:39.079 --> 01:59:41.000 I was actually want to add one of the armed 2127 01:59:41.039 --> 01:59:42.800 gentlemen to pray for us this time. 2128 01:59:43.079 --> 01:59:44.119 I mean you can do that. 2129 01:59:45.640 --> 01:59:47.239 Seven or Leslie, would you be up for praying to 2130 01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:48.000 close for us? 2131 01:59:52.720 --> 01:59:57.279 Pray, I'll pray, I'll pray, Thank you us, Pray Heavenly Father, 2132 01:59:57.800 --> 02:00:01.800 loving God, we just want thank you for this moment, 2133 02:00:01.960 --> 02:00:04.800 this time. I just want to thank you for the conversations. 2134 02:00:04.880 --> 02:00:08.760 I pray Lord that this will reach out to men 2135 02:00:08.880 --> 02:00:10.319 that we've not been able to reach. 2136 02:00:11.680 --> 02:00:11.880 Lord. 2137 02:00:11.960 --> 02:00:14.039 We know there's somebody out there, there's a man out 2138 02:00:14.039 --> 02:00:17.399 there who's in need of you, and I pray wherever 2139 02:00:17.479 --> 02:00:19.640 he may be at this time, Father, that he will 2140 02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:25.359 have heard this conversations that we've had this evening, and 2141 02:00:25.560 --> 02:00:30.000 he will know that he is valued, loved, is important, 2142 02:00:31.680 --> 02:00:35.960 and Lord, you love him. So I pray God that 2143 02:00:37.000 --> 02:00:39.039 you'll just be with us in a special way. I 2144 02:00:39.199 --> 02:00:42.680 thank you for this opportunity, maybe with each and every 2145 02:00:42.720 --> 02:00:48.640 one of us, Lord, as we leave this broadcast, but 2146 02:00:48.800 --> 02:00:52.760 not your presence, and then you bless everything that this 2147 02:00:53.720 --> 02:00:57.680 broadcast aims to do and to achieve, so that your 2148 02:00:57.840 --> 02:01:01.439 name and it's all about you, Lord, your name is Glory. Well, 2149 02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:04.399 this is our prayer in your precious name. Amen. 2150 02:01:04.920 --> 02:01:07.399 Amen, Amen, thank you, thank. 2151 02:01:07.199 --> 02:01:10.600 You so much, so thank you so much for joining us. 2152 02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:13.560 So it's good night from all of us on talking point. 2153 02:01:13.640 --> 02:01:15.720 Do you join us again, enjoy the rest of your 2154 02:01:15.800 --> 02:01:19.039 evening and have a fantastic week, and we'll see you. 2155 02:01:19.159 --> 02:01:20.479 God willing next. 2156 02:01:21.800 --> 02:01:22.600 Good Evening. 2157 02:01:25.760 --> 02:01:27.119 Adventist Radio London. 2158 02:01:27.439 --> 02:01:28.880 Inspiration for the song