Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to begin taking
Speaker 1: a look at Leslie Groff and the transcript from her
Speaker 1: appearance in front of Congress, and we're going to skip
Speaker 1: all the swearing in and talking about you know the
Speaker 1: rules of engagement, if you will, we all know those now,
Speaker 1: So we're going to start with Leslie Groff and our
Speaker 1: opening statement. Ms. Groff. Okay, good morning, Chairman, ranking member,
Speaker 1: and members of the Committee. My name is Leslie Groff.
Speaker 1: I have no experience in public speaking. I've never testified
Speaker 1: in court. I am introverted and shy, and this is
Speaker 1: petrifying to me. So I apologize to you if my
Speaker 1: responses are awkward. Still I'm here. I look forward to
Speaker 1: providing information to this committee voluntarily, just as I did
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one when I spoke voluntarily with prosecutors
Speaker 1: in New York. I want to help you in any
Speaker 1: way that I can. I hope that it'll prevent this
Speaker 1: evil conduct from ever occurring again. I believe that my
Speaker 1: testimony will dispel the false notions that, because of my
Speaker 1: employment with Epstein, I must have knowingly enabled or conspired
Speaker 1: with them to commit these evil acts. Nothing could be
Speaker 1: further from the truth. Since mister Epstein's arrest in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: I struggle with sleep. I can't eat. Many of my
Speaker 1: friends and acquaintances have shunned me. For the last seven years,
Speaker 1: my now twenty one year old son's life has been
Speaker 1: in turmoil, and I've been the target of harassment and
Speaker 1: death threats. I've chosen to speak with you all to
Speaker 1: tell the truth as I know it. My recollection of
Speaker 1: many things is generally poor, since they occurred as far
Speaker 1: back as twenty five years ago. I'll try my very best,
Speaker 1: and I thank you for your patience. I want to
Speaker 1: say without any doubt that I have come to believe
Speaker 1: the man who employed me from February of two thousand
Speaker 1: and one through July of twenty nineteen was a monster.
Speaker 1: For eighteen years, I worked for Jekyl, but was never
Speaker 1: permitted to see the true mister Hyde. Mister Epstein was,
Speaker 1: in hindsight, a master manipulator and deceiver who separated his
Speaker 1: legitimate life from his secret life as an abuser, and
Speaker 1: made sure that as his secretary, those two worlds did
Speaker 1: not collide. I had every reason not excuse me. Had
Speaker 1: every reason not to tell me about his crimes. He
Speaker 1: had no leverage on me. I was not like Sarah Kellen,
Speaker 1: whose testimony just broke my heart. Sexually abused by Epstein.
Speaker 1: I didn't need the job. Our family was financially secure.
Speaker 1: Most importantly, I would have never sat silent if I
Speaker 1: knew of his crimes. Mister Epstein used me and intentionally
Speaker 1: kept me on the outside of his perverted life. He
Speaker 1: did not know me when I was hired. It was
Speaker 1: nonsensical for him to confide in me a total stranger,
Speaker 1: or allow me to learn that he was abusing women.
Speaker 1: Now let me tell you a little bit about myself.
Speaker 1: I was born in Dallas and raised in a Protestant
Speaker 1: home in Plano. I graduated from the University of Texas
Speaker 1: at Dallas. I moved to Jersey in ninety and married
Speaker 1: my first husband in ninety three. I worked at his
Speaker 1: office supply company. I then worked as a salesperson at Nordstrom's.
Speaker 1: After my divorce, I met my husband Ike. I decided
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be an event planner, so I
Speaker 1: posted my resume on monster dot Com. I was contacted
Speaker 1: by a headhunter about a job with the New York Knicks. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I missed the interview because of snowstorm in Manhattan. That
Speaker 1: same day. The headhunter asked if I was interested in
Speaker 1: working for a wealthy businessman as an administrative assistant to
Speaker 1: keep his very busy life organized. That same day I
Speaker 1: interviewed at the Helmsley Palace with Glenn Maxwell and then
Speaker 1: mister Epstein. They explained to me that i'd be with
Speaker 1: mister Epstein, his executive assistant secretary, organizing his calendar, making appointments,
Speaker 1: and dealing with his endless calls. I could tell this
Speaker 1: was an office environment that looked exciting, challenging, and attractive
Speaker 1: to me. About a week later, I accepted the job
Speaker 1: at a salary fifty thousand. From two thousand and one
Speaker 1: to two thousand and nine, I worked exclusively out of
Speaker 1: Helmsley Palace. When I began working for mister Epstein, I
Speaker 1: was thirty five years old. I was trained by Redacted,
Speaker 1: the woman I was replacing. Redacted explained that I would
Speaker 1: be inundated with calls, scheduling, and coordinating his staff to
Speaker 1: make sure that they've fulfilled his often demanding work requests.
Speaker 1: For example, making sure that he had reading glasses at
Speaker 1: every table at every one of his homes and offices,
Speaker 1: or sourcing very late in the day a dozen chocolate
Speaker 1: croissants made in New York to be delivered the Palm
Speaker 1: Beach by nine the next morning. Miss Maxwell redacted and
Speaker 1: other staff also told me that mister Epstein's day included
Speaker 1: a morning muffin, a private yoga lesson, and a massage
Speaker 1: for me. Many of his routines were luxuries, but everyone
Speaker 1: treated them as normal, and I was expected to arrange
Speaker 1: them as part of my job. I was astonished by
Speaker 1: the truly impressive people in his circle. Past presidents, military leaders,
Speaker 1: former politicians, foreign dignitaries, actors, musicians, scientists, authors, mathematicians, university professors, inventors,
Speaker 1: titans of business, models, fashion designers, and philanthropists. It was
Speaker 1: a world I had no experience with, and I was
Speaker 1: captivated by it. I actually felt lucky to have found
Speaker 1: such an amazing job. I was thrust into the lifestyle
Speaker 1: of the rich and famous. Mister Epstein's directive for a
Speaker 1: massage was just another small part of the elite world
Speaker 1: I was not from, and was a very small part
Speaker 1: of what was demanded from me on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: From day one, mister Epstein and Miss Maxwell established guardrails.
Speaker 1: They made it very clear to me that I was
Speaker 1: a replaceable employee. Maxwell and Epstein told me that I
Speaker 1: was never to associate with their friends or contacts or
Speaker 1: I'd be fired. The people I spoke with in my
Speaker 1: job were their friends and colleagues, not mine. Their business
Speaker 1: was none of my business, and not to forget it.
Speaker 1: If I messed up in an appointment, I could be fired. Frequently,
Speaker 1: mister Epstein yelled at me to the point of tears
Speaker 1: when I made an error with an appointment. He screamed
Speaker 1: that I ruined his day and that the time lost
Speaker 1: could never be replaced. I recalled that weeks after I
Speaker 1: was hired, one of mister Epstein's contacts invited me to
Speaker 1: attend a party with my husband in New York City.
Speaker 1: The next workday, Mister Epstein and Miss Maxwell, who were
Speaker 1: not at the party, somehow found out that I had attended,
Speaker 1: and they torched me. They told me I had crossed
Speaker 1: the line into his social life and I'd be fired instead.
Speaker 1: Mister Epstein put me on probation. He ordered me to
Speaker 1: completely separate myself from his personal world. In hindsight, I
Speaker 1: wish he had fired me. Since that time twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago, I've never socialized with mister Epstein or a
Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell. I've never been on his aeroplane. I've never
Speaker 1: been to one of his parties. I never visited him
Speaker 1: in jail after he was convicted in two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight or after he was arrested in twenty eighteen. I
Speaker 1: never accompanied him to Little Saint James or a Zoro ranch,
Speaker 1: or to his Pon Beach residents. In fact, in my
Speaker 1: eighteen years as his secretary, I've been to Little Saint
Speaker 1: James three times, once with my husband and twice for
Speaker 1: work to view construction projects. These visits were during the
Speaker 1: day and lasted only a couple hours. I stated as
Speaker 1: Paris Guest department once with my husband. Mister Epstein was
Speaker 1: not there. From two thousand and one to two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, I worked exclusively at Helmsley Palace. When you
Speaker 1: entered the reception area, my office was located in the
Speaker 1: rear of the suite and I could not see who
Speaker 1: entered or exited. Visitors were able to enter and leave
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's office through a separate entrance without seeing them
Speaker 1: without me seeing them. In two thousand and nine, the
Speaker 1: offices moved to sixty sixth Street, then to five seventy
Speaker 1: five Lexington Avenue, and then around twenty thirteen to his
Speaker 1: mansion on seventy first Street. Not once did I see
Speaker 1: or hear anything illegal. Every morning mister Epstein called me
Speaker 1: at nine am with literally dozens of matters for me
Speaker 1: to complete that day. I had no free time. I
Speaker 1: went from task to task. I had two phones on
Speaker 1: my desk, ringing constantly. Almost daily, I made a massage
Speaker 1: appointment for mister Epstein. He provided me the name and
Speaker 1: telephone number of a massuse and I called her. These
Speaker 1: calls lasted literally a few seconds. Hi, this is Leslie
Speaker 1: calling for mister Epstein. Are you available for a massage?
Speaker 1: At four Sometimes massuses called the office and asked if
Speaker 1: mister Epstein wanted a massage. On occasion, mister Epstein directed
Speaker 1: me to arrange massages for his guests, both men and women,
Speaker 1: at hotels and spas. To me, a few minutes it
Speaker 1: took to arrange massages for mister Epstein were just part
Speaker 1: of his routine, like going to the gym. For some people.
Speaker 1: From two thousand and one, to about twenty thirteen. I
Speaker 1: never stepped foot in the mansion, nor have I ever
Speaker 1: been in the private quarters of his home, including one
Speaker 1: of the massage took place. I'd never seen photos of
Speaker 1: nude women there. From in or about two thousand and
Speaker 1: five to two thousand and seven, when I became pregnant
Speaker 1: and gave birth to my son, I was rarely at
Speaker 1: the office. I had a job sharing agreement with herdacted
Speaker 1: who had also just given birth, and I worked from
Speaker 1: home at least two days a week. I only came
Speaker 1: into the office on the rare occasion when mister Epstein
Speaker 1: was there. It's important for the committee to understand that,
Speaker 1: to my knowledge, I never met any of these messuses.
Speaker 1: None of these women or anyone else ever told me
Speaker 1: that they were miners or that they were sexually abused.
Speaker 1: Nothing I heard or saw led me to believe otherwise.
Speaker 1: Even Sarah Kellen, who courageously told this committee about her
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, confirmed that she never told me of her abuse,
Speaker 1: even though we spoke with each other. Finally, I wished
Speaker 1: to address why I did not leave Epstein's employ after
Speaker 1: his arrest in two thousand and eight. My experience in
Speaker 1: that regard was similar to Miss Kellen's than others like Sarah.
Speaker 1: It was not until some time after mister Epstein's conviction
Speaker 1: that I learned the government and mister Epstein's lawyers had
Speaker 1: included me and others in the non prosecution agreement as
Speaker 1: potential co conspirators. I'm not a conspirator, and I never
Speaker 1: would have agreed to that language. Their unilateral decision to
Speaker 1: label me as a potential conspirator remains my scarlet letter.
Speaker 1: After his arrest in two thousand and eight, Epstein lied
Speaker 1: to me and insisted that he had been blackmailed and
Speaker 1: set up. His attorney told me the same thing. He
Speaker 1: angrily said that the allegations against him were fake and
Speaker 1: he had no idea that the women he had contact
Speaker 1: with was a minor. It was a shakedown, he claimed
Speaker 1: for money. In my mind, there was a reason that
Speaker 1: he was treated so leniently by law enforcement for such
Speaker 1: a serious crime. Although I consider resigning, Epstein convinced me
Speaker 1: to remain. He played on my loyal nature. I actually
Speaker 1: believed that he had been set up. I believed that
Speaker 1: he could be kind and generous in caring because the
Speaker 1: way he often treated me and others. I know now
Speaker 1: that this kindness was a facade, ud and just part
Speaker 1: of his manipulation. I also saw the VIPs continue to
Speaker 1: surround Epstein after his conviction. I know now that everything
Speaker 1: he did was a scheme intended to protect himself members
Speaker 1: of the committee. My heart breaks for these women, I
Speaker 1: believe them. Words cannot express how badly I feel that
Speaker 1: I was employed by mister Epstein during the time he
Speaker 1: abused these women. I will live with that horrible feeling
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. But what I cannot
Speaker 1: and should not live with are the false innuendos and
Speaker 1: accusations that I knowingly aided his evil conduct. And that's
Speaker 1: why I'm here today. Thank you. All right, folks, We're
Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here and in the next
Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're picking up where we left off with
Speaker 1: a Leslie Groff transcript from her interview with Congress Miss Toland.
Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Emmer. We've had another member joined. Can
Speaker 1: she please announce yourself for the record, Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico,
Speaker 1: first Congressional District. Mister Toland. The time reads ten twenty
Speaker 1: and the majority of time will begin now. The questions
Speaker 1: are being asked by Miss Tolan. Question. Thank you for
Speaker 1: appearing here today. We appreciate your assistance in the investigation.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go through a few background questions, some
Speaker 1: might be repetitive from your opening statement, just so the
Speaker 1: record is clear. Where were you born answer Dallas, Texas? Question?
Speaker 1: And what year were you born? Answer nineteen sixty six? Question?
Speaker 1: And can you briefly describe your professional career for the committee?
Speaker 1: Answer my professional career question? Yes, answer My first job
Speaker 1: question yes answer. My first job was when I was
Speaker 1: in fifth grade. I walk from elementary school to a
Speaker 1: little preschool to help my mother teach dance to little
Speaker 1: girls that worked there, not worked there, or went there.
Speaker 1: And then in seventh grade, I believe I started working
Speaker 1: for my father, who was an entrepreneur. He owned his
Speaker 1: own construction company, and my sister and I would stack
Speaker 1: bricks and scrape windows of the homes that he built.
Speaker 1: I also worked for Fridays as a hostess, and I
Speaker 1: taught dance. When I was in eleventh and twelfth grade,
Speaker 1: drank college. I worked at Chili's as a waitress, and
Speaker 1: then when I moved to New Jersey, I worked for
Speaker 1: my first husband in his office supply company. It was
Speaker 1: a commercial office supply company. I was there as a
Speaker 1: customer service rep. And then after that I worked for Nordstrooms.
Speaker 1: I sold men's clothing, and then after that I got
Speaker 1: the job with mister Epstein. Question and what year was
Speaker 1: at Answer? That was two thousand and one. Question and
Speaker 1: when did your employment with mister Epstein end? Answer twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Question and were you working the same position that entire time?
Speaker 1: Answer yes, question executive secretary? Is that yeah? Correct? Answer
Speaker 1: executive secretary. Question And were there any breaks in your
Speaker 1: employment or was it all the way through from two
Speaker 1: thousand and one to twenty nineteen? Answer? I meet no
Speaker 1: official breaks except when I was pregnant. I definitely want
Speaker 1: on maternity leave for about three or four months. Question
Speaker 1: And are you currently employed? Answer? I am not. Question
Speaker 1: do you currently receive any income? Answer? I do not.
Speaker 1: Question Tell me about the first time you interacted with
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Answer that would be on the day I
Speaker 1: went for the interview. I first met, I believe, with
Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell's assistant, and then I met with Miss Maxwell.
Speaker 1: And then I met with mister Epstein in his office
Speaker 1: and he interviewed me. It was rather quick, maybe like
Speaker 1: ten minutes. I sat in front of his desk, and
Speaker 1: I noticed that the phone kept bringing and he would
Speaker 1: take the calls, speak briefly, and then hung up and
Speaker 1: then speak with me again. Question and this was also
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. Do you recall the month
Speaker 1: or the day eight on that answer? I believe it
Speaker 1: was February, I believe. Question February two thousand and one. Answer,
Speaker 1: Uh huh, Emmer, we've had another member join. Can he
Speaker 1: please announce himself for the record. Andy Biggs Arizona Brignac
Speaker 1: ms Groff, who was redacted Miss Maxwell's assistant at the time,
Speaker 1: answers Leslie Groff questions by Miss Toland once again. Question
Speaker 1: and where did this interview take place? Again? Answer at
Speaker 1: four point fifty seven Madison Avenue. It was Helmsley Palace.
Speaker 1: Question and how did you receive the opportunity to get
Speaker 1: the interview? Answer right, So, a headhunter had called me
Speaker 1: for a position at the new York Knicks. He had
Speaker 1: found my resume on monster dot com. He had his
Speaker 1: own business, but unfortunately I couldn't get to the city
Speaker 1: when he wanted me to, and by the time I
Speaker 1: got in, the position for the New York Knicks was
Speaker 1: already taken. And once he met me, he consulted with
Speaker 1: some other people in the office and came back to
Speaker 1: me and said, you know, we might have another position
Speaker 1: if you're interested. It'd be working for one man who
Speaker 1: you know, you'd organize his life. He's a socialite, he's
Speaker 1: a businessman. It sounded, you know, exciting, and he asked
Speaker 1: me if I had time, that he would call this
Speaker 1: gentleman and see if I could actually go down for
Speaker 1: an interview that day, And amazingly he was available, and
Speaker 1: I actually walked up to the Helmsley Palace and that
Speaker 1: was the interview question. And you mentioned speaking with mister
Speaker 1: Epstein and he was taking calls. What was he like
Speaker 1: during the interview? Answer? He was very business like, I
Speaker 1: mean just business like and professional. Question And what did
Speaker 1: he ask you during the interview? Answer? Where I had
Speaker 1: worked before? So I let him know about the office
Speaker 1: supply company and Nordstrums because those were my most recent jobs.
Speaker 1: He asked me if I, you know, was able to
Speaker 1: use a computer, if I had worked on a computer before,
Speaker 1: and you know I could type, you know, things along
Speaker 1: those lines. Question do you recall any other discussions you
Speaker 1: may have had with them? Answer? It so long ago.
Speaker 1: I think it was all just very basic. Mister Emmer
Speaker 1: jumps in. We've had another member join. Can you please
Speaker 1: announce himself for the record, Congressman Stephen Lynch from Massachusetts
Speaker 1: A district back to Miss Toland asking questions question and
Speaker 1: did you also interview with Glenn Maxwell? Answer? I did
Speaker 1: her first. Yeah. Question and what was she like during
Speaker 1: the interview? Answer? She was professional, friendly, wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure kind of the same things. You know, could I
Speaker 1: use a computer or type? Was I okay with fast
Speaker 1: paced atmosphere? Wanted to know my background, you know. Question
Speaker 1: did she interview with anyone else besides Maxwell and Epstein? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did speak with redacted at the beginning, just a
Speaker 1: little bit, and it was probably more of the same.
Speaker 1: She probably just introduced herself to me and let me
Speaker 1: know a little bit about the office. Question and you
Speaker 1: said you became his assistant or executive secretary about a
Speaker 1: week later. Is that correct answer? Correct? Question? And did
Speaker 1: he offer you employment? Answer? I'm not sure if it
Speaker 1: was him or miss Maxwell who may have called it.
Speaker 1: Probably was Miss Maxwell. That seems to make more sense.
Speaker 1: Brignac was redacted leaving the office Groft. She was not.
Speaker 1: She left about a year later after I started, Miss Tolan,
Speaker 1: And you stated that your initial offer included a fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars salary. Is that correct? Answer? That's correct? Question?
Speaker 1: Were there any other benefits tied to the job, healthcare, housing,
Speaker 1: anything like that? Answer? I believe healthcare was also offered. Yes.
Speaker 1: Question anything else? Answer? Not at the time? Question and
Speaker 1: you mentioned this, I believe in your opening statement. But
Speaker 1: when you were given a job initially, were you aware
Speaker 1: that you'd be scheduling massages for mister Epstein? Answer? Not
Speaker 1: at the initial first when I first spoke to him
Speaker 1: about the interview, but after I started. Yes, that was
Speaker 1: one of the things that was definitely spoken about, that
Speaker 1: a massage would be part of his day, and it
Speaker 1: was all treated very normally. Question And who told you that? Answer?
Speaker 1: I believe it was Miss Maxwell redacted, probably redacted. It
Speaker 1: was just known in the office. Miss Brignac. And who
Speaker 1: is going to train you and how to schedule these massages?
Speaker 1: Were you told at the beginning? Graf? Yes, I was
Speaker 1: told at the beginning. I'm sure it was redacted and
Speaker 1: all of them, probably everybody took a hand in helping me.
Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot to learn. It was,
Speaker 1: you know, very fast paced, two phones on my desk,
Speaker 1: it was overwhelming, Brignac. Did you find anything about the
Speaker 1: massage scheduling to be odd when you first started, Groff?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. It was just like any other appointment. It
Speaker 1: was like going to the gym. It was very normal. Timmins,
Speaker 1: did you schedule, sorry, did you ever schedule any of
Speaker 1: the other assistants for massages? Graf? No, Timmins, So everybody
Speaker 1: that you schedule for a massage seemed like they possibly
Speaker 1: were a massage therapist. Graf, I believe that. Yes. Back
Speaker 1: to Tolin and what did you know about mister Epstein
Speaker 1: prior to meeting him? Answer nothing, nothing. I wasn't even
Speaker 1: told who I was going to meet until I got there.
Speaker 1: Question had you heard anything about him? Answer no question. Well,
Speaker 1: next question, did anyone raise concerns about mister Epstein to you? Answer?
Speaker 1: No question? And what were your first impressions of mister Epstein.
Speaker 1: Answer that he was powerful. You know a lot of
Speaker 1: important people, professional business like super busy, stand offish. You know,
Speaker 1: we didn't have conversations. It was just about business and
Speaker 1: what he wanted accomplish that day. Did you immediately understand
Speaker 1: him to be wealthy? Answer yes? Question did you know
Speaker 1: how he acquired his money? Answer? I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: believed he was a money manager. Question how did you
Speaker 1: come to learn that? Answer? I think it was just
Speaker 1: talked about in the office with all the other administrative staff. Brinyako.
Speaker 1: When you accepted the job offer, What did you understand
Speaker 1: about the position? Groff? I believed he was a money manager,
Speaker 1: managed other people's money, Brignac. Was that told to you
Speaker 1: in the interview? Groth? I assume it was that he
Speaker 1: was a money manager. Tolan and how many clients did
Speaker 1: mister Epstein have during the period of your employment. Answer, well,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to say. I definitely know his
Speaker 1: biggest client was Les Wexner, and then he had some
Speaker 1: other clients as well. Can you name them? Answer? Can
Speaker 1: I name them? I think it was Rothschild, you know,
Speaker 1: it was some other big names he talked to mord Zuckerman.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was a client, nothing's coming
Speaker 1: to mind, but there were definitely important people calling. Question
Speaker 1: did you ever communicate directly with the clients? Answer just
Speaker 1: answering a phone call and passing the phone call through
Speaker 1: to mister Epstein. Question and were they frequent visitors to
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answered the business people question Yes, answer I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say frequent, every so often. Question and did you
Speaker 1: ever conduct any work for any of those individuals? Answer?
Speaker 1: No question. We're going to get in more specifics later,
Speaker 1: but for now, just some general questions. Can you briefly
Speaker 1: describe the extent of your relationship with mister Epstein? Answer? Sure,
Speaker 1: I would say the relationship is hardly a relationship. It
Speaker 1: was very very business professional. I was not close to
Speaker 1: him whatsoever, and I do believe that's exactly the way
Speaker 1: he wanted it. Mister Emmer, we've had another member join.
Speaker 1: Can she please announce herself for the record? Yasimin and sorry,
Speaker 1: Arizona's third district. Back to Brignac. Question the headhunter could
Speaker 1: tell you or tell us a bit more about how
Speaker 1: you came into contact with this person? Answer? Of course,
Speaker 1: he called me because he saw my resume on monster
Speaker 1: dot com. He had his own firm, and I know
Speaker 1: his dame was Russell. I can't remember his last name,
Speaker 1: but it was his own firm. And he said he
Speaker 1: called me in for the New York Knicks job, and
Speaker 1: I went to the city to meet him. Question and
Speaker 1: what was the name of his firm? Answer? I don't recall.
Speaker 1: I don't recall. It was on Madison Avenue, I believe,
Speaker 1: and you know, I come to mister Epstein. Someone might
Speaker 1: have been miss Maxwell redacted. Somebody hired his firm, Russell's
Speaker 1: firm to find the secretary. Question so were other employees
Speaker 1: of Epstein procured from this firm? Answer? I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Question you likely worked in assisting to recruit other assistants
Speaker 1: and employees for Epstein? Did you use this firm? Answer?
Speaker 1: Actually I did not. That was not under my heading.
Speaker 1: I never contacted any head hunter firms or was in
Speaker 1: charge of recruiting. Do I recall interviewing some women when
Speaker 1: he wanted I was actually thinking he wanted to replace me,
Speaker 1: but perhaps it was you know, he just wanted another
Speaker 1: executive assistant. But that was one time. But I don't
Speaker 1: know where exactly what that firm. That came from question
Speaker 1: and did you work for mister Epstein until he died
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen? Answer? No, not until he died. I
Speaker 1: actually resigned prior to that question. Why answer it was
Speaker 1: time for me to resign. I discussed it with, you know,
Speaker 1: my family, and I wanted to leave. Question and what
Speaker 1: was the date of your resignation? Answer? I don't know
Speaker 1: the exact date. I believe it was July of twenty nineteen. Brignac,
Speaker 1: What was the reason you left? Answer? What was the
Speaker 1: reason I left? I didn't understand what was going on,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be with them, associated with
Speaker 1: them anymore. Brignac? What took place that brought those feelings
Speaker 1: of confusion? Graff? Well, he was arrested, and that was
Speaker 1: that was scary to me. I didn't like that. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be associated with him. I didn't understand
Speaker 1: what was going on, Miss Toland. Question did you have
Speaker 1: those same feelings after his first arrest in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six? Answer that was a different time. Actually, he
Speaker 1: explained to me that he was being blackmailed and it
Speaker 1: was all this big false and I believed him, and
Speaker 1: it appeared to me everybody in the office felt the
Speaker 1: same way. He was very good at manipulating, very good liar.
Speaker 1: We can all see that. And at the time I
Speaker 1: actually felt sorry for him. I thought, Wow, this must
Speaker 1: be really difficult to be a wealthy person and not
Speaker 1: know who you can trust because everybody just wants your money.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever doubt what he told you or
Speaker 1: ever think the allegations were true? Answer? No, I did not.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here
Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with the Leslie
Speaker 1: Groff transcript from her interview with Congress, question by Miss Toland,
Speaker 1: and then just a few more general questions. How often
Speaker 1: did you communicate with mister Epstein as his secretary? Answer? Yes, well,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, he was absolutely crazy. He did not
Speaker 1: have email. He would communicate with me probably every fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: He would call the office and you know me directives
Speaker 1: on how we wanted to organize his day, and it
Speaker 1: was just crazy, a crazy time. It was hard to
Speaker 1: keep up. It was very challenging, but he would Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would call every fifteen minutes. Question and how often
Speaker 1: were you with him in person? Answer? Not very often.
Speaker 1: He would come into the office. If he was in
Speaker 1: New York City, he would come into the office for
Speaker 1: half a day. He really wasn't in the office that much.
Speaker 1: Question and did you ever have a romantic relationship with
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer no question. Did you ever have any
Speaker 1: sexual relationship with mister Epstein? Answer no question. Did mister
Speaker 1: Epstein ever meet any of your family members? Answer? He
Speaker 1: briefly met my husband when we were at a Mick
Speaker 1: Jagger concert, but it was literally one second he said
Speaker 1: hello and that was it. Question anyone else? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: When was the last time you communicated with mister Epstein?
Speaker 1: Answer was probably some time in July of two thousand
Speaker 1: nine nineteen. Question do you remember the nature of those communications?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. And when was the last time that
Speaker 1: you saw him in person? Answer? I don't recall exactly.
Speaker 1: It was maybe in June of twenty nineteen, but I
Speaker 1: don't recall. Question and then were you ever abused or
Speaker 1: assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein. Answer no, Miss Brignac asking the question, now,
Speaker 1: what was his reaction when you resigned Groff? I didn't
Speaker 1: speak to him. I told his attorney, Darren Endyke, that
Speaker 1: I was resigning. Miss Tolan asked him the question, how
Speaker 1: would you characterize your relationship with Miss Maxwell Groff? Purely professional?
Speaker 1: Mister Higgins jumps in, mister chairman, may I I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you a question. I'm going to have you
Speaker 1: have to leave in a few minutes. You're doing a
Speaker 1: very composed job. Thank you for being here, Groff, Thank
Speaker 1: you Higgins. Regarding the massage therapist, you've explained your interactions
Speaker 1: regarding calling them and communicating and arranging. So I have
Speaker 1: just a couple of questions there, Groff. Of course, Higgins.
Speaker 1: Did the telephone system at the office have caller ID? Grof?
Speaker 1: I don't recall. I don't think so, Higgins, Okay, Grof,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was so long ago, was there
Speaker 1: caller ID? Higgins? Did you have any way of knowing
Speaker 1: when you call these ladies that you believed to be
Speaker 1: a massage therapists? Did you have any way of knowing
Speaker 1: that you were calling a massage company or a business
Speaker 1: or was it always a personal phone? Can you shed
Speaker 1: some light on that, Graf? I believe it was cell phones. Higgins,
Speaker 1: it was cell phones, Graf. Uh huh, Higgins. So did
Speaker 1: the massage therapists ever introduce themselves? Did they ever come
Speaker 1: give a massage to mister Epstein at the office Grof? Never? No, Higgins, Okay,
Speaker 1: just asking, I don't know, Graf, Yeah, Higgins. Did you
Speaker 1: ever meet any of them in person? Graf? I did not, Higgins.
Speaker 1: And did you ever have a conversation with them about
Speaker 1: their equipment, like how they were transporting their equipment or
Speaker 1: did you presume that it was a business Graf. I
Speaker 1: knew that they were to meet at his home, and
Speaker 1: I believe that he was he was equipped with what
Speaker 1: he needed. Higgins, I see. And was the massage therapy
Speaker 1: session timed? Did they say I'm going to do this
Speaker 1: from two to three because I have another appointment at
Speaker 1: four or what? Graff? His day was very scheduled Higgins, No,
Speaker 1: for the massage therapist. Graff. Yeah, So they would you know,
Speaker 1: come for thirty minutes or whatever, you know the time
Speaker 1: it was usually short Higgins. So that time schedule that
Speaker 1: you scheduled, like the window that they were going to
Speaker 1: be with mister Epstein or whomever. Was there a window
Speaker 1: that you scheduled, Graf? Was it a window I scheduled?
Speaker 1: I don't know that I ever gave an exact, you know, time,
Speaker 1: but I knew that if I was scheduling something else
Speaker 1: for him, say someone was coming for a two o'clock massage,
Speaker 1: and then I knew his next appointment was two thirty.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Higgins? Okay? And how were these
Speaker 1: massage therapists paid Groff? I believe that he paid them.
Speaker 1: And there were some times when I would be asked
Speaker 1: to please ask our accounting department to sense two hundred
Speaker 1: dollars for in an envelope via messenger or picked up
Speaker 1: from his driver to be delivered to a massuse mister Higgins.
Speaker 1: And where would that be delivered to an address provided
Speaker 1: to you Groff? Correct? Higgins? Did you keep documentation of
Speaker 1: the addresses? Groff? I did not, Higgins okay? And where
Speaker 1: would the cash come from? Groff redacted in our accounting
Speaker 1: department had a petty cash box? Higgins okay. Final question
Speaker 1: about the massage therapists. Did it ever strike you as
Speaker 1: odd man that when you were calling a massage therapist
Speaker 1: it was not a massage therapy business, Groff. No, I
Speaker 1: considered it like an independent contractor type of situation. Higgins. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's all my questions. Thank you now, mister Biggs. Can
Speaker 1: I ask a question too, thank you. We've just talked
Speaker 1: about a number. I want to know. Was there a
Speaker 1: number of different massage therapists or was it one or
Speaker 1: two or the same one or how was that? Miss Groff?
Speaker 1: It changed throughout, you know, time, Sometimes it would be
Speaker 1: the same one and then other times was always directed
Speaker 1: by mister Epstein. Mister Biggs, that's what I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you. Where did you get the name and number
Speaker 1: he provided those to you? Graf? That is correct, yes, Biggs.
Speaker 1: And was this was this a daily occurrence? Graf? It
Speaker 1: could be. I'm sure there were days that there were
Speaker 1: no massage Biggs. Okay, thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Mister Emmer, just to follow up, were the days that
Speaker 1: he would receive multiple massages? Graf? I don't believe. So.
Speaker 1: I've heard that, but I don't believe. I don't recall
Speaker 1: booking multiple massages. I can say if if one person
Speaker 1: was not available. He might provide me a different name
Speaker 1: and a phone number, but to me, it was one
Speaker 1: Tolan and you scheduled. Did you schedule all of mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's massage appointments or were other individuals involved in this? Grof?
Speaker 1: I think other individuals were probably helping schedule as well,
Speaker 1: mister Tolan. Do you know who Miss Groff? It could
Speaker 1: have been Sarah Kellen at the time, maybe redacted redacted,
Speaker 1: the administrative staff, Miss Brynac. So what was your role
Speaker 1: in scheduling massages? Miss Groff? I was his main secretary.
Speaker 1: But if I wasn't, if I was sick, or if
Speaker 1: I was not there, you know, in the office for
Speaker 1: some reason vacation Toland? Were you responsible for scheduling massages
Speaker 1: at specific residence of his or anywhere? Answer? It was
Speaker 1: mostly his home in New York City, that's you know
Speaker 1: where I would schedule. And did you ever schedule for
Speaker 1: his massages for his pom Beach residents? Answer it's possible,
Speaker 1: question any of the other residences. Answer it's possible question.
Speaker 1: And you've already touched on this a little bit, But
Speaker 1: how would you know who to schedule? Answer mister Epstein
Speaker 1: would direct me on who to call Brignac. Ask him
Speaker 1: a question, now how answer? Oh, he would call me
Speaker 1: and then he'd give me his twenty pages worth of
Speaker 1: notes to say, schedule for the day, and that would
Speaker 1: just be one of the things to schedule. Question can
Speaker 1: you describe what it would say? Answer? Well, he would
Speaker 1: call me and rattle off everything that he wanted to
Speaker 1: happen that day in the morning, nine am sharp, and
Speaker 1: it would just be one of the you know, schedule
Speaker 1: a meeting with you know, Leon Black, schedule a meeting
Speaker 1: with mort Zuckerman. Here's a list of thirty people that
Speaker 1: I want you to call today. Make me a massage
Speaker 1: appointment with so and so, and then onward with you know,
Speaker 1: let's see if we can have lunch with so and
Speaker 1: so type of thing. Question Why would he give you
Speaker 1: the contact information for the individual he wanted for a massage?
Speaker 1: Answer yes, question to include what information? Answer name and
Speaker 1: phone number? Question and did you ever ask how he
Speaker 1: got this information? Answer no, Tolan. And then you would
Speaker 1: directly reach out to these women. Is that correct answer
Speaker 1: by Groth? Correct yes, question or sometimes they would reach
Speaker 1: out to you. I think you mentioned earlier. Answer that's correct. Question,
Speaker 1: how frequently would they reach out to you? Answer? How frequently?
Speaker 1: If he was she gets cut off by backner. Can
Speaker 1: you please keep your voice up, Groff, keep my voice up.
Speaker 1: I would say it happened, you know, if he was
Speaker 1: in town and a messus knew, they might call you know,
Speaker 1: once a week, twice a week to see if you
Speaker 1: would see them. Timmins and quick question. So pre jail,
Speaker 1: it seemed like Glenn Maxwell did a lot of the
Speaker 1: finding of the massage therapists and a lot of the coordination.
Speaker 1: After that, it was more structured and there were different
Speaker 1: people that were finding of age women all over the planet,
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe and whatnot. You have a number of emails
Speaker 1: where you're communicating with people to introduce very young but
Speaker 1: of age girls to mister Epstein. Did you think that
Speaker 1: was strange? Including photos of beautiful women saying these are
Speaker 1: two people, I think you'd like them, and then you'd
Speaker 1: facilitate the introduction one. Did that occur often? Groff? It
Speaker 1: did occur. Mister Epstein always wanted to widen his his
Speaker 1: rolodecks of people. He always wanted to meet people. And
Speaker 1: it was not just when it came to women. When
Speaker 1: it came to men as well, and the scientists and
Speaker 1: the professors. He oftentimes said, if you know someone that
Speaker 1: you think I would enjoy meeting, and you think are smart,
Speaker 1: please bring them along. It was just kind of what
Speaker 1: he did, Timmins. So it's not unusual for someone to
Speaker 1: email you and say, this is a twenty one year
Speaker 1: old from Ukraine and she's very beautiful. Here are some photos.
Speaker 1: We think that Jeffrey would like her, and then she
Speaker 1: would send you the email to you and you would
Speaker 1: then take that email to mister Epstein and say this
Speaker 1: person sent this, and you would say, do you want
Speaker 1: to meet this person? That's normal, Miss Groff, That's correct.
Speaker 1: He was involved with a lot of modeling agencies and
Speaker 1: he was just a connector. Timmins, Okay. In retrospect the
Speaker 1: other seven or eight people that he referred to as assistants,
Speaker 1: you're aware that they're victims of sex trafficking and human trafficking,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, I'm aware that they're saying they're victims now, Timmins, Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean they've been deemed victims by multiple federal courts mediations.
Speaker 1: They've received hundreds of millions of dollars of settlements would come.
Speaker 1: Are you asking her awareness now, Sir Timmins, Yeah, Are
Speaker 1: you aware currently that that's the case? Graf? I am Timmins, Okay,
Speaker 1: in retrospect, do you think that all these other kinds
Speaker 1: of things go together. I mean, he's got girls come
Speaker 1: in from Eastern Europe and he's developing a system of
Speaker 1: control over eight people that work for him, and you're
Speaker 1: the right hand of that control. Would come just objection
Speaker 1: to the form you can answer, Timmins. Did you control
Speaker 1: the credit cards of the ed assistance? Grafi did not? Timmins.
Speaker 1: Did you know the pin for their apartments? Did you
Speaker 1: control their apartments? Grafi did not. Mister Timmins. Would you
Speaker 1: what if they said differently? Graf? I don't think they
Speaker 1: would Timmins, okay, Miss Brynac, Miss Gross, you answered a
Speaker 1: question about massages with the fact that he was well
Speaker 1: connected to modeling agencies. Did you ever did he ever
Speaker 1: use a model as a massus? Ms? Graf? I don't know, Toland.
Speaker 1: And can you estimate how many different messuses Epstein used?
Speaker 1: Groff I don't know, Mister Biggs. Would you say it
Speaker 1: was more than a dozen different messuses? Groff I would
Speaker 1: say it was more than a dozen, mister Biggs, more
Speaker 1: than twenty Groff twenty thirty over a time period. Mister Biggs,
Speaker 1: what time period are you thinking, Miss Groff? Two thousand
Speaker 1: and one to two thousand and seven, mister Biggs, So
Speaker 1: during that six year period, you think maybe somewhere between
Speaker 1: twenty and thirty or is it more likely than thirty?
Speaker 1: Miss Groff? It sounds right, but I don't really know Brignac.
Speaker 1: Question and what informed your opinion that he was well
Speaker 1: connected to modeling agencies? Answer? Well's biggest client was Les Wexner,
Speaker 1: and I knew that he was friendly with other business
Speaker 1: owners Faith Kates of next modeling. Question, but he was
Speaker 1: well connected to lots of different influential people. Why do
Speaker 1: you per se he was well connected to modeling agencies
Speaker 1: amongst very few others. What about the modeling agencies stands
Speaker 1: out to you? Answer? When I first got hired, there
Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about modeling and modeling agencies
Speaker 1: and Les Wexner and that sort of thing. It was
Speaker 1: just known around the office. Question did you hear office
Speaker 1: gossip about how he would interact with these models? Answer? No,
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
Speaker 1: in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we
Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off
Speaker 1: with the Leslie Groff transcript from her interview with Congress
Speaker 1: MS Tolan. The committees reviewed multiple documents related to Jeffrey Epstein,
Speaker 1: including his phone directories. I will now introduce as Majority
Speaker 1: Exhibit one. These are excerpts the mister Epstein phone directories
Speaker 1: that the committee received from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1: These excerpts are labeled as massage lists with names or
Speaker 1: redacted names of individuals, cell phone numbers, and a description
Speaker 1: next to the name. Mister Bockner. Before you ask a question,
Speaker 1: could I just have a quick moment? Toland? Sure, take
Speaker 1: a moment, Backner, Thank you Tolan. MS Groff. Have you
Speaker 1: seen these lists before? Answer? This looks like a little
Speaker 1: black book that was a directory that was kept, you know,
Speaker 1: in the office and at is Holmes. Question where all
Speaker 1: were they kept at residences? Answer? I believe all residences? Yes,
Speaker 1: question And you said in offices, in mister Epstein's office
Speaker 1: or in your office? Answer one was on my desk
Speaker 1: when I started, and I believe there were others other
Speaker 1: administrators who had them on their desk as well. Question
Speaker 1: and mims Groff, did you create these lists? Answer no?
Speaker 1: Question do you know who did? Answer? I believe it
Speaker 1: was Miss Maxwell. Question do you know how she created
Speaker 1: the list? Answer? I do not. I think over time.
Speaker 1: Question and is this to the best of your recollection?
Speaker 1: Is this what the lists look like when you began
Speaker 1: working for mister Epstein? Answer yes. Question did you add two, change,
Speaker 1: or remove any names from any of these lists? Answer?
Speaker 1: I'm sure I added to the list. I don't think
Speaker 1: we ever took things out, but we added Brignac. What
Speaker 1: would warrant adding someone to this black book? Gruff? Anyone
Speaker 1: he met. If I was directed to put a phone number,
Speaker 1: a name in and a phone number in, I would
Speaker 1: put them in. I would actually put it into the
Speaker 1: computer system, not into the black book. I think the
Speaker 1: black book was printed from the directory that was on
Speaker 1: the computer system at the time. Miss Tolan. Question, so
Speaker 1: who else had authority to add her change names on
Speaker 1: the directory? Answer? I think that would be anyone in
Speaker 1: the office. Question and you mentioned already, but did you
Speaker 1: use the list to schedule massage appointments for mister Epstein? Answer,
Speaker 1: he directed me on who to schedule so and it
Speaker 1: usually it was a name and a phone number. Maybe
Speaker 1: if it was somebody that he was hiring for a while.
Speaker 1: After a while, he didn't have to give me the
Speaker 1: phone number because the phone number was in the directory. Question,
Speaker 1: so we would if he provided you a name, you
Speaker 1: would use the directory for the number. Answer? Correct question.
Speaker 1: And previously you mentioned that anyone else in the office
Speaker 1: would have the ability to change the access to these lists.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer? Correct? Question? Who are you referring
Speaker 1: to here? Answer? It would be miss Maxwell redacted. We
Speaker 1: had a receptionists at the time, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of different ones. Redacted who was Darren Endike's assistant, could
Speaker 1: add and subtract. Anybody who had access to the computer
Speaker 1: system should be able to add and subtract. Tolin and
Speaker 1: mister Epstein, you said, would tell you names and numbers
Speaker 1: of who to call. Were there ever times when you
Speaker 1: would if you would just say you wanted a massage,
Speaker 1: would you ever choose one to schedule? Answer? No, question
Speaker 1: and on the first page of the list, which is
Speaker 1: House Oversight Bates four hundred, there's a list of massage
Speaker 1: names specific to New York. Answer uh huh. Question, And
Speaker 1: on the back of the page there's a list of
Speaker 1: names also specific to New York. These are labeled A
Speaker 1: and B. Do you know why there's an A and
Speaker 1: a B list for New York? Answer? I do not. Question.
Speaker 1: I know it's redacted, but do you know from your
Speaker 1: role if there's any difference in these two lists? Answer
Speaker 1: I do not question. There is also a list of
Speaker 1: massage names specific to Florida. Do you know who is
Speaker 1: on that list? Do you know who created that list? Answer?
Speaker 1: I do not. It was before I got there, Miss Brignac.
Speaker 1: But you did add to the list, correct Graff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could have added to the list, but I don't know. Yes,
Speaker 1: I added to the list at times. The whole book
Speaker 1: was before I got there, it had already started, Miss Brignac.
Speaker 1: Can you recall who you may have added, Miss Groff?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Miss Tolan. And did you schedule from
Speaker 1: Florida list specifically at any point? Answer It's possible that
Speaker 1: I schedule for Florida, but I don't recall anything offhand?
Speaker 1: Nothing stands out. Same questions here there is also a
Speaker 1: list massage New Mexico. Do you know who created that list? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't. I would think it would be miss Maxwell.
Speaker 1: Question and did you also use this list to schedule
Speaker 1: massages for mister Epstein in New Mexico? Answer it's possible.
Speaker 1: He didn't go there very often, but it's possible. Question
Speaker 1: was there a list of messuses specific to Paris? Friends?
Speaker 1: We know we had an apartment, mister Epstein had an apartment,
Speaker 1: There was there a list? Answer? I don't know. Is
Speaker 1: there a list? Question? There was not in anything we received,
Speaker 1: So just if you have knowledge of it? Answer, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't recall a list. Question. And then within this
Speaker 1: document there is also a list specific to the UK.
Speaker 1: Do you know why mister Epstein would have had a
Speaker 1: list of massage names specific to the UK? Answer? I
Speaker 1: do not. Question did he ever maintain a residence there?
Speaker 1: Answer in the UK? Question yes, answer not that I'm
Speaker 1: aware of. Question did he frequently travel there? Answer no?
Speaker 1: Question by Brignac. So then what would the UK list
Speaker 1: be used for? Graff? I don't know. I guess if
Speaker 1: you went to the UK Brignac. Did you use it
Speaker 1: to schedule other people? Graf Oh, no, no, Tolin And
Speaker 1: then same questions. There also appears to be a list
Speaker 1: specific to California. Did you use this list to schedule
Speaker 1: massages for mister Epstein in California? Answer? I don't recall.
Speaker 1: Question Do you know why he had a list specific
Speaker 1: to California? Answer? I do not. Question did he ever
Speaker 1: maintain a residence in California? Answer not that I'm aware of. Question?
Speaker 1: And did he travel there often? Answer? Not often? Question
Speaker 1: and then there does not appear to be one in
Speaker 1: this directory? But do you know of there being a
Speaker 1: list specific to the Virgin Islands? Answer I'm not aware
Speaker 1: of a list specific to the Virgin Islands? Question and
Speaker 1: next to you can see it. Next to all of
Speaker 1: the list, there are parentheticals, a lot of them read
Speaker 1: redacted names, friends, redacted names, roommate which we understand to
Speaker 1: be roommate redacted pale, And even on page five, one
Speaker 1: of the parentheticals reads GM, who we understand to be
Speaker 1: a miss Maxwell really likes. What was the purpose of
Speaker 1: these descriptions? Answer? I don't know. I don't even recall descriptors.
Speaker 1: I really did not use the directory. I used what
Speaker 1: was on the computer system. It was much faster. Brignac. Question,
Speaker 1: but miss Groff, who had access to this book? Answer?
Speaker 1: Uh huh. Question did you not find it odd that
Speaker 1: some of them is jeuses were friends of other messuses
Speaker 1: and not coworkers? Answer? I did not. I guess I
Speaker 1: did not. I didn't even think about it. Question in
Speaker 1: twenty years, you never asked why are we booking Messus's
Speaker 1: friends to come give massages as well? Backner, I don't, respectfully,
Speaker 1: I don't think you laid the foundation that she saw
Speaker 1: friends there. I think she said she used something in
Speaker 1: the other computer system, mister Witcomb, or that massages were
Speaker 1: happening for twenty years sam objection, Miss Brignac, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'd still like for you to answer the question Groff
Speaker 1: about friends. I don't recall seeing these what did you
Speaker 1: call them? Question descriptors? Answer descriptors? Yeah, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: don't recall seeing the descriptives or people talking about descriptives.
Speaker 1: I would just be given the directive. Questions, So these
Speaker 1: were not in the online database version? Answer not that
Speaker 1: I recall. Question and so these were for mister Epstein's
Speaker 1: awareness rather than you answer, I don't know if they
Speaker 1: were for his awareness or Miss Maxwell's awareness. I don't
Speaker 1: know whose awareness they were for question and you mentioned
Speaker 1: there is the online version of the directories. What database
Speaker 1: was that information stored on? Do you know? Answer? I
Speaker 1: don't have independent knowledge or recollection of this, but I
Speaker 1: did read Sarah's testimony gets cut off by backner. Do
Speaker 1: you want her recollection or do you want to know
Speaker 1: what she read? Tolin her recollection? If you know? Graff, Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't remember. Question and do you know if any
Speaker 1: of that information was ever deleted during the first investigation
Speaker 1: into mister Epstein. Answer, I don't know. Question and do
Speaker 1: you know if it was deleted at any point? Answer?
Speaker 1: I do not. Question was this information ever switched to
Speaker 1: a different database? Answer? We did switch over to mac computers.
Speaker 1: Question Miss Groff, I'm going to read you a list
Speaker 1: of names. For each name, please answer yes or no
Speaker 1: to the following question, and I will have follow up
Speaker 1: questions for each person that you answer yes to. The
Speaker 1: question is have you ever scheduled or arranged a massage
Speaker 1: at any of Jeffrey Epstein's properties for any of the
Speaker 1: following individuals? Frederick Forcai Answer no, Andrew mount Batton Windsor
Speaker 1: answer no. Harvey Weinstein answer no, Terry Larson answer no,
Speaker 1: Tommy Mottola answer no. Jess Staley answer no. George Mitchell
Speaker 1: answer no, Henry Jureki answer no, Eduardo TiO Dorani answer no,
Speaker 1: Leon Black answer no. Glenn Dubin answer no. Lappo Elkin answer,
Speaker 1: I don't even know who that is. No question Tom Pritzker, no,
Speaker 1: David Mitchell no. Did you ever schedule massages of any
Speaker 1: kind for any of these individuals? Answer no. Question do
Speaker 1: you recall scheduling meetings of any kind for any of
Speaker 1: these individuals? Answer? Meetings with mister Epstein? Yes. Question other
Speaker 1: than mister Epstein, did you ever schedule messages for any
Speaker 1: of the massages? Excuse me for any other individual? Answer?
Speaker 1: I scheduled a massage appointment for a Kathy Rumler at
Speaker 1: a spa, and I know he gave her. That's it.
Speaker 1: That's all I can recall. Question what did you understand
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's relationship to be with Kathy Rumler? Answer? Professional
Speaker 1: business question did you think it was weird that he
Speaker 1: directed you to schedule a massage for miss Rumler? Answer?
Speaker 1: I did not. Question by miss Tolin. And when you
Speaker 1: were scheduling massage, what information did you gather from the
Speaker 1: messuses to schedule them? Answer just if they could make it,
Speaker 1: make the appointment or not. Question did you ever ask
Speaker 1: for their age? Answer no question. Did you ever ask
Speaker 1: if they needed travel or car service? Answer no. Question.
Speaker 1: Were all of the messuses that you schedule of females?
Speaker 1: Answer no. I know of one man that he would
Speaker 1: schedule a massage with question how frequently? Answer not that frequently, Brignac.
Speaker 1: Did anyone else besides Epstein give you contact information for massuses? Groth?
Speaker 1: I think it was just him. Tolin? And did you
Speaker 1: ever see any of the massuses in person? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Did you or anyone ever express concerns to you about
Speaker 1: their appearance or their age? Answer no question. Were all
Speaker 1: of the messuses local to the area to New York? Question?
Speaker 1: Answer uh huh, I believe so. Question. What did you
Speaker 1: know about their background where they came from? Answer nothing.
Speaker 1: Question it never came up in conversation, whether with them
Speaker 1: or another individual? Answer never. Question. Were you aware that
Speaker 1: many of them were coming from local high schools at
Speaker 1: the time? Answer no question. Were there qualifications as messuses? Ever? Reviewed.
Speaker 1: Answer no question by anyone. Answer I don't know. Question
Speaker 1: and where did the actual massages take place in the
Speaker 1: New York residence? Answer at his home, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Question where specifically what room? Answer the massage room. Question
Speaker 1: can you describe that a little more? Answer I've never
Speaker 1: seen it. I don't know. I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 1: Question did you maintain an office space within his New
Speaker 1: York residence at any point? Answer it was only after
Speaker 1: about twenty thirteen that I ever stepped foot into the house.
Speaker 1: Prior to that, I had offices elsewhere. Mister Emmer, just
Speaker 1: a quick follow up, Did you have any role in
Speaker 1: preparing the massage room to be used? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Did you have any role in greeting messuses when they
Speaker 1: visited the residence? Answer no question. Were you ever present
Speaker 1: in the room when mister Epstein was receiving a massage?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. I understand that Congressman Biggs has some question.
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna wrap up right here, and in
Speaker 1: the next episode we're gonna pick up with Congressman Biggs
Speaker 1: and his questions. All the information that goes with this
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.